From w2hx@w2hx.com Fri Mar 1 23:08:28 2024 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Decwriter III self test issue? Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2024 23:08:16 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB5269313A5F3D8D7AD953F26CB55F2=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5456403051026492800==" --===============5456403051026492800== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought I'd send a follow up that I have fixed the decwriter (whew)... A little lube goes a long way! Vid below. https://youtu.be/mJH3GPIvBvs 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: W2HX via cctalk =20 Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 6:53 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: W2HX Subject: [cctalk] Decwriter III self test issue? Hi all, I recently acquired a very nice decwriter III and it seems in good nick. Howe= ver, the self test "hangs" on the return direction of the second line. Here i= s a video on it: https://youtu.be/pj6rk5Dlnbk Anyone have any ideas where to look? In local mode, it appears to work proper= ly. I haven't tried any external serial connection yet. 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos --===============5456403051026492800==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Mar 2 02:03:11 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Decwriter III self test issue? Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2024 21:02:53 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB5269E20FDC75F2B9237F5A2BB55E2=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0900918842928704395==" --===============0900918842928704395== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good news. On Fri, Mar 1, 2024, 6:08 PM W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I thought I'd send a follow up that I have fixed the decwriter (whew)... > A little lube goes a long way! Vid below. > > https://youtu.be/mJH3GPIvBvs > > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: W2HX via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 6:53 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: W2HX > Subject: [cctalk] Decwriter III self test issue? > > Hi all, > > I recently acquired a very nice decwriter III and it seems in good nick. > However, the self test "hangs" on the return direction of the second line. > Here is a video on it: > https://youtu.be/pj6rk5Dlnbk > > Anyone have any ideas where to look? In local mode, it appears to work > properly. I haven't tried any external serial connection yet. > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > --===============0900918842928704395==-- From ioerg.hoppe@gmail.com Sat Mar 2 08:13:59 2024 From: Joerg Hoppe To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] QProbe2023 - QBUS Blinkenlights Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2024 08:45:41 +0100 Message-ID: <575cbae0-1ac2-46b8-ba6a-8793354b67b6@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5930142887595066405==" --===============5930142887595066405== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow nerds, not sure who knows about this project, so here an announcement ... again? As QBUS PDP-11s (03,23,73,83,93, also uVAX) don't have lots of lamps&switches like the old UNIBUS machines, their owners suffer on "Blinkenlight envy". So I was pushed to pimp up the QBUS diagnostic adapter "QProbe" https://www.retrocmp.com/tools/qprobe Model "QProbe2023" has now focus on entertainment. There's a QBUS signal display in style of old PDP-10/12/15 rack header panels. It can be build into a 5.25" drive case ... or into the BA23 case itself. https://www.retrocmp.com/tools/qprobe/327-qprobe2023-overview By lucky incident you can even see the idle loop pattern of RSX11M+ on some J11 systems. See a full boot of RSX11M+ at time index 5:56 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajAcxGwK-vQ As it also has RESTART/HALT/AUX switches, it's also helpful for PDP-11s mounted case-less in a standalone backplane (like the one at https://retrocmp.com/projects/lsibox and on the "Frankenstein" video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoW7Szkppww&t=403s ) Btw for unknown reasons, I cannot register to classiccmp itself ... CC me direct in your replies. kind regards, Joerg --===============5930142887595066405==-- From drb@msu.edu Sun Mar 3 17:49:51 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 12:49:47 -0500 Message-ID: <20240303174947.0FADC4CA717@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6097904137306094964==" --===============6097904137306094964== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have or know of an archive of old mod.sources (predecessor of comp.sources.unix) posts? I know googlegroups has it, but that only means nothing since it's effectively inaccessible there. De --===============6097904137306094964==-- From amp1ron@gmail.com Sun Mar 3 18:09:59 2024 From: amp1ron@gmail.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 13:09:51 -0500 Message-ID: <005801da6d95$fd482790$f7d876b0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20240303174947.0FADC4CA717@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4695450282405728298==" --===============4695450282405728298== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Does anyone have or know of an archive of old mod.sources (predecessor > of comp.sources.unix) posts? I know googlegroups has it, but that only > means nothing since it's effectively inaccessible there. Maybe https://archive.org/details/usenet-mod . It includes mod.sources.mbox.zip (https://archive.org/download/usenet-mod/mod.sources.mbox.zip). There's also mod.sources.doc.mbox.zip (https://archive.org/download/usenet-mod/mod.sources.doc.mbox.zip) in that usenet-mod archive. Usenet-mod is just one of MANY usenet archives to be found in Usenet Historical Collection (https://archive.org/details/usenethistorical). There are a lot more usenet archives to be found in collection Usenet Archive (https://archive.org/details/usenet). And you can find some other usenet archives and many non-usenet archives in Data Collection (https://archive.org/details/data). -- Ron --===============4695450282405728298==-- From drb@msu.edu Sun Mar 3 20:11:25 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 15:11:20 -0500 Message-ID: <20240303201120.175514CACDF@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <005801da6d95$fd482790$f7d876b0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7344828163101241931==" --===============7344828163101241931== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Maybe https://archive.org/details/usenet-mod It includes > mod.sources.mbox.zip Thanks, didn't think of that. I've found things in there before. That takes us back into 1984. The net.* hierarchy is also in the same collection, and its net.sources mbox goes back to ~1982. Anyone know of an archive that has stuff older than 1982? De --===============7344828163101241931==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Mar 3 21:22:18 2024 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 14:22:00 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20240303201120.175514CACDF@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2794610171397810171==" --===============2794610171397810171== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 1:11 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Maybe https://archive.org/details/usenet-mod It includes > > mod.sources.mbox.zip > > Thanks, didn't think of that. I've found things in there before. > > That takes us back into 1984. The net.* hierarchy is also in the same > collection, and its net.sources mbox goes back to ~1982. > > Anyone know of an archive that has stuff older than 1982? > How much is older than that? I didn't think uucp got going until V7 was released outside of AT&T in 1980 or 81... I'm sure someone will correct my notions though :) Warner --===============2794610171397810171==-- From leec2124@gmail.com Sun Mar 3 22:03:37 2024 From: Lee Courtney To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Decwriter III self test issue? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 14:02:56 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB5269E20FDC75F2B9237F5A2BB55E2=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5390171710713911162==" --===============5390171710713911162== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Video removed... :-( Was looking forward to seeing how I could apply your work to my Decwriter. Lee On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 3:08 PM W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I thought I'd send a follow up that I have fixed the decwriter (whew)... > A little lube goes a long way! Vid below. > > https://youtu.be/mJH3GPIvBvs > > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: W2HX via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 6:53 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: W2HX > Subject: [cctalk] Decwriter III self test issue? > > Hi all, > > I recently acquired a very nice decwriter III and it seems in good nick. > However, the self test "hangs" on the return direction of the second line. > Here is a video on it: > https://youtu.be/pj6rk5Dlnbk > > Anyone have any ideas where to look? In local mode, it appears to work > properly. I haven't tried any external serial connection yet. > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > -- Lee Courtney +1-650-704-3934 cell --===============5390171710713911162==-- From drb@msu.edu Sun Mar 3 22:14:56 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 17:14:52 -0500 Message-ID: <20240303221452.2C6A14CB2CF@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8798178622732774829==" --===============8798178622732774829== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How much is older than that? I didn't think uucp got going until V7 > was released outside of AT&T in 1980 or 81... I'm sure someone > will correct my notions though :) If memory serves (hahahalolrofl...) the origins of usenet go back to at least 1980. (Ignoring the Plato history.) What set this off was a desire to look at and maybe fiddle with the old Notes package by Ray Essick and Rob Kolstad. De --===============8798178622732774829==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Sun Mar 3 23:15:08 2024 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Decwriter III self test issue? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 23:14:57 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1698071887468863953==" --===============1698071887468863953== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yikes. Very sorry about that. I didn=E2=80=99t think anyone was interested an= ymore so I deleted it. I made a new video that combines the problem and the s= olution, but this video won't be published until March 5th.=20 https://youtu.be/Z0DmeANmv0I Again, that link won't work until March 5th. Sorry! 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: Lee Courtney via cctalk =20 Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2024 5:03 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Lee Courtney Subject: [cctalk] Re: Decwriter III self test issue? Video removed... :-( Was looking forward to seeing how I could apply your wor= k to my Decwriter. Lee On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 3:08=E2=80=AFPM W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I thought I'd send a follow up that I have fixed the decwriter (whew)... > A little lube goes a long way! Vid below. > > https://youtu.be/mJH3GPIvBvs > > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: W2HX via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 6:53 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <=20 > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: W2HX > Subject: [cctalk] Decwriter III self test issue? > > Hi all, > > I recently acquired a very nice decwriter III and it seems in good nick. > However, the self test "hangs" on the return direction of the second line. > Here is a video on it: > https://youtu.be/pj6rk5Dlnbk > > Anyone have any ideas where to look? In local mode, it appears to work=20 > properly. I haven't tried any external serial connection yet. > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > -- Lee Courtney +1-650-704-3934 cell --===============1698071887468863953==-- From kgober@gmail.com Sun Mar 3 23:58:30 2024 From: Kenneth Gober To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 18:58:15 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20240303201120.175514CACDF@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2618081728878587683==" --===============2618081728878587683== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 3:11 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Maybe https://archive.org/details/usenet-mod It includes > > mod.sources.mbox.zip > > Anyone know of an archive that has stuff older than 1982? > I believe the utzoo Wiseman archive goes back to 1981. I don't know of any that go farther back. -ken --===============2618081728878587683==-- From drb@msu.edu Mon Mar 4 00:42:21 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: mod.sources archive? Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 19:42:16 -0500 Message-ID: <20240304004217.047114CB965@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <00a901da6dc3$42c2bd80$c8483880$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8516187165071741918==" --===============8516187165071741918== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Googling for "mirror uxc.cso.uiuc.edu" found me one hopeful hit: > https://www.funet.fi > pub > misc > Notes.README Ron, Another good search approach that I hadn't thought of. Many thanks! De --===============8516187165071741918==-- From wh.sudbrink@verizon.net Tue Mar 5 01:05:40 2024 From: William Sudbrink To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Visual 50 terminal troubleshooting Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2024 20:04:36 -0500 Message-ID: <092501da6e99$186b7c80$49427580$@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <092501da6e99$186b7c80$49427580$.ref@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5098202009923735106==" --===============5098202009923735106== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a Visual 50 terminal that I am now troubleshooting. I got it in the late 1980s and it worked fine until 1995. I can't find a good schematic for it or ROM images. Its symptom is that it powers up to continual beep (solid tone, not repeated beeps) with a cursor on the screen. This is not in the troubleshooting table of the manual that I have. I know the keyboard is capacitive foam pads. I was hoping that was the trouble, but it is not. I disassembled the keyboard and removed the old pads, replacing a few with some spares I had from SOL20 repairs. Has anyone corrected this problem before? I suspect that the EPROMs are going. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com --===============5098202009923735106==-- From tih@hamartun.priv.no Tue Mar 5 07:34:24 2024 From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: RD54 Maxtor XT-2190 w/one long meep Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 08:34:14 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5176691531213110331==" --===============5176691531213110331== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Zach via cctalk writes: > It is quite possible to put a touch of watch oil on the shaft of an > older drive (without opening it) to quiet the bearings and > re-libricate the grease. I'm still running RD54's and RD53's without > much of an issue, firing them up every few months seems to keep them > happy. All the RD53s that I've owned have died, but every RD54 is still working. One of them has developed a bearing whine that occurs for a few seconds once every couple of hours, though, and I'd like to try oiling the lower bearing. However, the circuit board is in the way. Do you have experience with taking that off to get at the end of the shaft? Are there gotchas under there, like flimsy connectors that will break when you try to lift the board? -tih -- Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significance of Lisp. Lisp is the most important idea in computer science. --Alan Kay --===============5176691531213110331==-- From charlesmorris800@centurytel.net Thu Mar 7 03:57:33 2024 From: Charles To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Looking for TMS0106NC chip Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2024 21:45:25 -0600 Message-ID: <168bda07-bd47-4e1c-b9a6-ec4df785b09b@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7756168633822827585==" --===============7756168633822827585== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope a 1974 desk calculator (Radio Shack EC-2000, a re-badged TI-3500) is considered sufficiently both classic and computer for this list. :) The one IC, a TI TMS0106NC, has failed and I'm searching everywhere for a replacement. There's an -0103 on ebay from the same family which would substitute, but it's only 8 digits and this is a 10 digit machine. Plus it's $31 with postage, more than the calculator itself is worth! If anyone has one, or knows where I can get this IC, new or a pull, please let me know. Thanks! --===============7756168633822827585==-- From john@jfloren.net Thu Mar 7 05:08:03 2024 From: John Floren To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Requesting Lisp Machine photos Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2024 20:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: <87sf124otw.fsf@frodo.floren.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0782045968327529386==" --===============0782045968327529386== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm gathering photos of Lisp machines (of all makes and models). If you've got them scanned already, that's great, otherwise I have a scanner if you're willing to entrust your photos to me temporarily. Let's take replies off-list unless you think it'll be of general interest to subscribers. Thanks, John --===============0782045968327529386==-- From silent700@gmail.com Fri Mar 8 08:19:21 2024 From: Jason T To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF Midwest Hotel Booking Opens 3/8 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2024 02:19:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7640934597824945510==" --===============7640934597824945510== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello classic computing fans! The new website for VCF Midwest is up at https://vcfmw.org. Who knows the design inspiration without asking a (Commodore) friend?? Apologies if it doesn't render well on your device. I don't have your device! Room booking for the show will open this afternoon (Friday 3/8). It will be announced via the mailing list and a refresh of this web page (at the "HOTEL" link.) Lots more rooms this time, and we're starting with an empty block. But it's still best to book early if you want to stay at the show hotel! See you in September... -jt --===============7640934597824945510==-- From c.murray.mccullough@gmail.com Sat Mar 9 14:12:09 2024 From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] IBM PC-XT Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 09:11:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2842066680898557012==" --===============2842066680898557012== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I look back fondly on the IBM PC-XT of 41 years ago. It was very pricy here in the Great North but it allowed for a much more advanced computing environment. What one could do with a 10MB hard disk! Granted it was far more popular in the business world than the consumer one. However, it made possible much greater developments that hobbyists and experimenters latched onto. Happy computing! Murray 😊 --===============2842066680898557012==-- From lproven@gmail.com Sat Mar 9 16:05:19 2024 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM PC-XT Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 16:05:02 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3959634857332743083==" --===============3959634857332743083== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 14:12, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > > I look back fondly on the IBM PC-XT of 41 years ago. I think I briefly used one at university. I wrote about it recently. Its startling price put the Apple Lisa, launched the same year, into context: « The Lisa flopped partly because it was $9,995, about $30,000 today. A lot, sure, but for comparison, the first version of the original IBM PC to ship with a hard disk as standard, the IBM PC/XT, also launched in 1983 – and thanks to its 10 MB (no, not gig) hard disk, it cost $7,545. That's about $22,500 now. This is why eight-bit kit like the C64 dominated the 1983 market: 64 kB of RAM, audio cassettes for storage, and an analog TV set for a display was all that most home users could afford. The C64 was $595 at launch in 1981. By 1993, inflation meant that was about $1,000, which by then would get you a 486 PC. » https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/19/windows_nt_30_years_on/ -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============3959634857332743083==-- From sqrfolkdnc@comcast.net Sat Mar 9 16:23:41 2024 From: CAREY SCHUG To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM PC-XT Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 10:23:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1240933968.779690.1710001410791@connect.xfinity.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8896824217417997935==" --===============8896824217417997935== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fond memories too, my second significantly used home computer (mainframes and= midrange at work) (first was Trs80 m1, many others that I did almost nothing= with) Mine was the first pc/xt clone I found for under $1000. Eventually grew to 3= .5" A: disk and two double sided 80 track 5.25 disks for B: and C: (stolen fr= om the trs-80 m1) The a: was operating system and most tools, a few specialized alternates for = making greeting cards or something. The b: and c: were my "raid" array...eve= rything I wrote to B was also written to C. =20 still have that in storage, as well as several original pcs when they were to= ssed out at work. 
--Carey
> On 03/09/2024 8:11 AM CST Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =20 > I look back fondly on the IBM PC-XT of 41 years ago. It was very pricy here > in the Great North but it allowed for a much more advanced computing > environment. What one could do with a 10MB hard disk! Granted it was far > more popular in the business world than the consumer one. However, it made > possible much greater developments that hobbyists and experimenters latched > onto. >=20 > Happy computing! >=20 > Murray =F0=9F=98=8A --===============8896824217417997935==-- From charlesmorris800@centurytel.net Sat Mar 9 18:20:00 2024 From: Charles To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] FS: PDP-11/23+ system Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 12:19:52 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1448965119690394054==" --===============1448965119690394054== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Over the years, I have gradually built up a functional PDP-11/23+ system, which of course I now have no need for ;) So I'd be interested in selling it as I slowly downsize. You'd need to pick it up in south central Missouri as shipping would be impractical and expensive. Specifics: 11/23+ with 4MB RAM, selectable boot ROMs, two RL02 drives, floppy interface (set to 3.5" TEAC drive), 16-line serial ports, corporate cabinet with DEC power controller. Software including RT-11SJ, XM, TSX-Plus. Also have a VT-220 for the console which I may sell separately or with the system. Please email me *off-list* with offers, request for pics, etc. thanks Charles --===============1448965119690394054==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Sat Mar 9 19:56:49 2024 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Did something happen to comp.os.vms ? Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 11:50:55 -0800 Message-ID: <15EAD929-9326-4E71-8D03-58B0EECDB3BB@avanthar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3780839963645088399==" --===============3780839963645088399== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC newsgroups ap= pear to be missing from Eternal September. Zane --===============3780839963645088399==-- From stuff@riddermarkfarm.ca Sat Mar 9 21:24:14 2024 From: Stuff Received To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Did something happen to comp.os.vms ? Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 16:16:35 -0500 Message-ID: <5b1a928d-436e-ed16-ec08-9adb2c9ca86b@riddermarkfarm.ca> In-Reply-To: <15EAD929-9326-4E71-8D03-58B0EECDB3BB@avanthar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2091211074235892077==" --===============2091211074235892077== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-03-09 14:50, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC newsgroups = appear to be missing from Eternal September. >=20 > Zane >=20 >=20 I just subscribed to comp.os.vms on Eternal-September without issue.=20 All seems well. S. --===============2091211074235892077==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Mar 9 21:55:32 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 16:55:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5116482421360686016==" --===============5116482421360686016== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone use these commercially? Bill --===============5116482421360686016==-- From drb@msu.edu Sat Mar 9 22:19:21 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Did something happen to comp.os.vms ? Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 17:19:16 -0500 Message-ID: <20240309221916.34BA84BC350@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <15EAD929-9326-4E71-8D03-58B0EECDB3BB@avanthar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5305364466607947218==" --===============5305364466607947218== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC > newsgroups appear to be missing from Eternal September. There has been a huge flood of spam originating from google, in various newsgroups, for a few months. I saw 15,000 one day in comp.os.vms alone. This problem has prompted google to drop usenet support from Groups, which happened late last month. (The existing posts are still accessible, they claim.) Many are largely happy about this change. ;) It's possible this is related to your issue, though I see that someone else managed to subscribe to c.o.v. on Eternal September, so perhaps not. Sadly, a lot of c.o.v. regulars were using ggroups to post. Hopefully they take advantage of one of the alternatives. De --===============5305364466607947218==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Sat Mar 9 23:29:56 2024 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Did something happen to comp.os.vms ? Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 15:29:39 -0800 Message-ID: <05A84C8F-A707-41AD-A6B3-152B8093CE1D@avanthar.com> In-Reply-To: <5b1a928d-436e-ed16-ec08-9adb2c9ca86b@riddermarkfarm.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1780054664848507375==" --===============1780054664848507375== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 9, 2024, at 1:16 PM, Stuff Received via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 2024-03-09 14:50, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: >> Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC newsgroups= appear to be missing from Eternal September. >> Zane >=20 > I just subscribed to comp.os.vms on Eternal-September without issue. All se= ems well. >=20 > S. Thanks! The error was on my end, I started up =E2=80=98tin=E2=80=99 wrong. = I was just able to access comp.os.vms on Eternal-September, and it looks like= the rest of the DEC groups are there. Zane --===============1780054664848507375==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Sat Mar 9 23:37:29 2024 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Did something happen to comp.os.vms ? Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 15:37:14 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20240309221916.34BA84BC350@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6217745519358819581==" --===============6217745519358819581== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 9, 2024, at 2:19 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >=20 >> Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC >> newsgroups appear to be missing from Eternal September. >=20 > There has been a huge flood of spam originating from google, in various > newsgroups, for a few months. I saw 15,000 one day in comp.os.vms > alone. This problem has prompted google to drop usenet support from > Groups, which happened late last month. (The existing posts are still > accessible, they claim.) Many are largely happy about this change. ;) I noticed that things after that time are a lot cleaner on c.o.v., I think ha= ving a barrier to entry is a good thing, and will hopefully cut back on the s= pam. > It's possible this is related to your issue, though I see that someone > else managed to subscribe to c.o.v. on Eternal September, so perhaps > not. The issue was how I started =E2=80=99tin=E2=80=99. > Sadly, a lot of c.o.v. regulars were using ggroups to post. Hopefully > they take advantage of one of the alternatives. That=E2=80=99s unfortunate. I switched to Eternal-September a few years ago,= though I haven=E2=80=99t been really active on c.o.v. for years. Zane --===============6217745519358819581==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Sat Mar 9 23:46:30 2024 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] CommonPoint for AIX Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 15:37:22 -0800 Message-ID: <4e6371a6-17c2-42f8-8dd6-d85d6fe25c5a@floodgap.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8246403195556175639==" --===============8246403195556175639== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a ping out there to see if anyone's sitting on installation media for CommonPoint (the last gasp of Taligent). Seems appropriate to try to coerce it to run on an Apple Network Server. Let me know on or off list as appropriate. --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." ------= -- --===============8246403195556175639==-- From travispierce70@gmail.com Sun Mar 10 06:14:06 2024 From: Travis Pierce To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 23:13:49 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1726919607518386149==" --===============1726919607518386149== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I definitely do. I rebuilt a Trace ST8000 last year and got it up and running. I also built a 5.25" duplicator with 12 drives a few months back. I'd love to find a commercial 5.25" duplicator. Travis On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 2:55=E2=80=AFPM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication > machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone > use these commercially? > Bill > --===============1726919607518386149==-- From nico@farumdata.dk Sun Mar 10 09:21:15 2024 From: Nico de Jong To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 10:06:00 +0100 Message-ID: <625e2512-a4c8-4cb4-95cb-d75f98e4f360@farumdata.dk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4641508215976970851==" --===============4641508215976970851== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh yes. Back in the late 80's, I delivered some 13-14 autoloader-equipped media conversion systems to norwegian, finnish and danish customers. The problem they solved, was that the customers customers had a variety of floppy disc formats, like Norsk Data, IBM, CP/M, IBM 3740 (which itself had varying densities and single/double side), and many others. These discs had to be read and/or written, but checking how each disc had to be handled, was cumbersome and error-prone. Based on a request from BBS in Norway, I developped a conversion system based on "InterMedia for Windows", Trace / Mountain 3.5" 5.25" and 8" autoloaders, and Intermec hardware. Barcodes were glued to the media, which could then be read by a barcode scanner mpunted inside the autoloaders. This barcode could be a customer-id, a filename, a project name, or whatever. Some also had a reference to the formatname in InterMedia The last customer, a Employers Union, stopped handling floppies in 2007. To give an example of the transactions handled by 1 customer (although with 3 conversions systems) : if the system was dead for 1 full day, the interest they lost on the transactions, would buy them a , new manual conversion system, about 130.000 dkk (£15.000 or so) In its most busy period, all transactions on magnetic media, delivered to the bank, would go through my systems, apart from IBM 3480-3490 cassettes. All the best Nico On 2024-03-09 22:55, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication > machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone > use these commercially? > Bill --===============4641508215976970851==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sun Mar 10 14:20:25 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 10:19:59 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3331886975866198245==" --===============3331886975866198245== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/10/2024 1:13 AM, Travis Pierce via cctalk wrote: > I definitely do. I rebuilt a Trace ST8000 last year and got it up and > running. I also built a 5.25" duplicator with 12 drives a few months > back. I'd love to find a commercial 5.25" duplicator. >=20 > Travis >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 2:55=E2=80=AFPM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication >> machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone >> use these commercially? >> Bill >> Many moons ago I wrote software to run an 8" disk duplicator for making copies of disks for the Terak. Those were the days. :-) bill --===============3331886975866198245==-- From barythrin@gmail.com Sun Mar 10 18:02:06 2024 From: John Herron To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 13:01:47 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4662777566589011627==" --===============4662777566589011627== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If referring to commercial systems, I imagine that and discussion on copyright techniques might be interesting to a hardcore crowd. If just archiving, I also think that would be useful to the public. I only saw cd/dvd based systems and harddisk duplicators. Newer stuff though, not what I would consider vintage. On Sat, Mar 9, 2024, 3:55 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication > machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone > use these commercially? > Bill > --===============4662777566589011627==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sun Mar 10 18:42:23 2024 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 11:32:14 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0664681504722514110==" --===============0664681504722514110== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just curious--how many old Formasters are still in operation? --Chuck --===============0664681504722514110==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Sun Mar 10 18:48:28 2024 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 13:21:28 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2115183622327795090==" --===============2115183622327795090== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If I were to build a diskette copier today I would us some kind of=20 magnetic flux reader/writer (like the greaseweazle). That way it is format agnostic.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It can copy almost any disk that = can=20 be read. I have a script for my greaseweazle that will copy any 8" diskette (mine=20 is setup for 8" RX02 diskettes).=C2=A0 Granted, it copies by saving the image= =20 to disk and then writing it back out.=C2=A0 This allows the use of either 1=20 single disk system or the ability to make multiple copies without having=20 to re-read the source diskette. On 3/10/2024 1:01 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote: > If referring to commercial systems, I imagine that and discussion on > copyright techniques might be interesting to a hardcore crowd. If just > archiving, I also think that would be useful to the public. > > I only saw cd/dvd based systems and harddisk duplicators. Newer stuff > though, not what I would consider vintage. > > On Sat, Mar 9, 2024, 3:55 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > >> Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication >> machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone >> use these commercially? >> Bill >> --===============2115183622327795090==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Sun Mar 10 21:47:56 2024 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Keyboard Blockers? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 17:39:39 -0400 Message-ID: <72b38c1e-6ea3-482a-9ba0-8683fd82ee6b@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1030730280099384321==" --===============1030730280099384321== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I picked up a keyboard for a Wyse terminal at a flea market the other day.  When I tried some of the keys, they couldn't be depressed. I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be stuck.  I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing the key. The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain keys?" One of the keys was a Break key, which sort of made sense to me, because it would halt a PDP-11 if that was the host machine. This was the first time I had ever seen this kind of thing, was this common long ago? --===============1030730280099384321==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sun Mar 10 21:48:00 2024 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 14:47:47 -0700 Message-ID: <5b30c97e-cb91-492b-85a8-af48e26ce55a@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1860401541979193259==" --===============1860401541979193259== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back in the day (early 90s, IIRC), there was a package called "SyDupe" from modesty-forbids. It could use up to 3 diskette controllers, each with up to 4 drives (grand total 3). Simultaneously copying three disks, sensing disk changes, so no keyboard interaction aside from startup. Stick a disk in, pull another out, sort of thing. Ran on DOS. The three controller restriction was due to the limit of 3 8-bit DMA channels on the Peesee. All with off-the-shelf hardware. I still have a 6-floppy version in a tower case that still runs just fine. --Chuck --===============1860401541979193259==-- From chris@mainecoon.com Sun Mar 10 21:59:29 2024 From: Christian Kennedy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Keyboard Blockers? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 14:52:04 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <72b38c1e-6ea3-482a-9ba0-8683fd82ee6b@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9002954259811913339==" --===============9002954259811913339== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/10/24 14:39, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: [snip] > > The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so crude > that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain keys?" In the late 1980's I recall being on a trading floor in Tokyo and seeing a keyboard with a metal shield that covered all but two or three keys.  In this case it wasn't the application, it was a desire by the company in question to restrict their traders from using other than very specific functionality associated with the application. -- Christian Kennedy, Ph.D. chris(a)mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB00000692 | PG00029419 http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97 PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration…" --===============9002954259811913339==-- From drb@msu.edu Sun Mar 10 22:10:16 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Keyboard Blockers? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:10:11 -0400 Message-ID: <20240310221011.0F8A04C0847@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <72b38c1e-6ea3-482a-9ba0-8683fd82ee6b@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3186389455000494438==" --===============3186389455000494438== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but > on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be > stuck. I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black > plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing > the key. > The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so > crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain > keys?" I saw this in at least two applications: 1. The Service Merchandise chain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Merchandise) used serial terminals for their in-showroom catalog ordering. Some keys were blocked somehow, though I never peeled up key caps to see how. :) I want to say that backspace was one of the blocked keys, the aggravation of which is probably why I remember this. 2. CLSI library systems (LIBS100 on PDP-11). Ours here had ADM-3A (iirc) terminals with the break key blocked, iirc, though there were plenty of other ways to discombobulate the thing inadvertently. It was also available via dialup from keyboards that were not so modified. I once heated up a paper clip to read hot and shoved it through the stem of a TVI-925's SEND key, which was used for block mode functions, and caused the terminal to vomit screen contents back to the host. Unwanted presses of course produced a heck of a mess. (Older versions of our application ran in block mode, but you could always hit ESC-S to send the screen, and it was unfortunately easy, at least for me, to thwack SEND by mistake.) De --===============3186389455000494438==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Mon Mar 11 02:22:00 2024 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Keyboard Blockers? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 22:13:21 -0400 Message-ID: <8c106474-0ead-4ef1-b31b-be3af4f328e0@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20240310221011.0F8A04C0847@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4257762947849535323==" --===============4257762947849535323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I took a second look and here are the keys that were 'locked': Set Up Break Del Line INS Char Line DEL Char Scrn CLR Line INS Repl Escape Home All the Arrow keys, up, down, right, left It's a standard ASCII Wyse Keyboard Doug On 3/10/2024 6:10 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but > > on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be > > stuck. I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black > > plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing > > the key. > > > The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so > > crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain > > keys?" > > I saw this in at least two applications: > > 1. The Service Merchandise chain > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Merchandise) used serial > terminals for their in-showroom catalog ordering. Some keys were > blocked somehow, though I never peeled up key caps to see how. :) > I want to say that backspace was one of the blocked keys, the > aggravation of which is probably why I remember this. > > 2. CLSI library systems (LIBS100 on PDP-11). Ours here had ADM-3A > (iirc) terminals with the break key blocked, iirc, though there were > plenty of other ways to discombobulate the thing inadvertently. It was > also available via dialup from keyboards that were not so modified. > > I once heated up a paper clip to read hot and shoved it through the stem > of a TVI-925's SEND key, which was used for block mode functions, and > caused the terminal to vomit screen contents back to the host. Unwanted > presses of course produced a heck of a mess. (Older versions of our > application ran in block mode, but you could always hit ESC-S to send > the screen, and it was unfortunately easy, at least for me, to thwack > SEND by mistake.) > > De --===============4257762947849535323==-- From kantexplain@protonmail.com Mon Mar 11 03:36:20 2024 From: Just Kant To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Keyboard Blockers? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 03:35:54 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8c106474-0ead-4ef1-b31b-be3af4f328e0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0054752713743784353==" --===============0054752713743784353== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable O my Lord what have we here? Service Merchandise? They seemed to be the sole = supplier of the ITT Xtra pcs. I had the ITT Xtra XP, an xt/80286 hybrid (no 1= 6 bit isa slots). The memories!! I learned how to hack games on some Origin title. A.D. 2042 or what have you. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Sunday, March 10th, 2024 at 10:13 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I took a second look and here are the keys that were 'locked': > Set Up > Break > Del > Line INS Char > Line DEL Char > Scrn CLR Line > INS Repl > Escape > Home > All the Arrow keys, up, down, right, left >=20 > It's a standard ASCII Wyse Keyboard >=20 > Doug >=20 > On 3/10/2024 6:10 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >=20 > > > I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but > > > on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be > > > stuck. I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black > > > plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing > > > the key. > >=20 > > > The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so > > > crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain > > > keys?" > >=20 > > I saw this in at least two applications: > >=20 > > 1. The Service Merchandise chain > > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Merchandise) used serial > > terminals for their in-showroom catalog ordering. Some keys were > > blocked somehow, though I never peeled up key caps to see how. :) > > I want to say that backspace was one of the blocked keys, the > > aggravation of which is probably why I remember this. > >=20 > > 2. CLSI library systems (LIBS100 on PDP-11). Ours here had ADM-3A > > (iirc) terminals with the break key blocked, iirc, though there were > > plenty of other ways to discombobulate the thing inadvertently. It was > > also available via dialup from keyboards that were not so modified. > >=20 > > I once heated up a paper clip to read hot and shoved it through the stem > > of a TVI-925's SEND key, which was used for block mode functions, and > > caused the terminal to vomit screen contents back to the host. Unwanted > > presses of course produced a heck of a mess. (Older versions of our > > application ran in block mode, but you could always hit ESC-S to send > > the screen, and it was unfortunately easy, at least for me, to thwack > > SEND by mistake.) > >=20 > > De >=20 >=20 --===============0054752713743784353==-- From cz@bunsen.crystel.com Mon Mar 11 07:12:01 2024 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Dumping an UV PROM for a Sun 386i Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 15:35:30 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5801204947623870604==" --===============5801204947623870604== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all! I'm working on a little side project to see why one can't put a better CPU chip into a Sun 386i. Basically with a real 386 in the socket the system will at least start to flash the LEDs on the back, but with a Cyrix chip the LEDs are frozen on. I can remove the frame buffer, memory cards, even the Timekeeper chip and I still see this behavior. Running with no CPU or no PROM chip makes the system flash no lights, pointing to the problem being code in the PROM. Now, 386 CPUs don't have the CPUID register, but they do have a little feature where upon reset EDX contains a "3" to show the CPU "type". On a Cyrix chip it contains a "4". My guess is the ROM code has at the beginning a check of EDX and if <>3 go to a halt. I'd like to dump the code, find that check, and either replace the 3 with a 4, or replace the first HALT with a NOOP. The PROM is an Intel D27010 which is an Intel 128k*8 chip. Unfortunately I'm not finding much in terms of either datasheets or PROM programmers. Does anyone know how to/have the tools to dump and reprogram this? I'll bet the old archives that talk about the "Blue Lightning 386" working for boot were due to the chip being made under license of Intel thus being allowed to have that "3" in there. But since I also have a TI 386/486 chip with 8k of L1 cache, a 486 core instruction set, faster multiplier, and clock doubling by default I think it might wind up being.... faster. C --===============5801204947623870604==-- From merlyn@geeks.org Mon Mar 11 14:02:19 2024 From: Doug McIntyre To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dumping an UV PROM for a Sun 386i Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 09:02:14 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8827175035250596892==" --===============8827175035250596892== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 03:35:30PM -0400, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote: > The PROM is an Intel D27010 which is an Intel 128k*8 chip. Unfortunately I'm > not finding much in terms of either datasheets or PROM programmers. >=20 > Does anyone know how to/have the tools to dump and reprogram this? ... From what I remember, a D27010 is a pretty stock 1 Mbit PROM, and just about any EPROM reader/burner should be able to read it, and/or write a new E= PROM. --===============8827175035250596892==-- From johnhreinhardt@thereinhardts.org Wed Mar 13 03:16:26 2024 From: "John H. Reinhardt" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Did something happen to comp.os.vms ? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 22:11:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1d13851a-95d4-4143-872b-496a1625cd92@thereinhardts.org> In-Reply-To: <15EAD929-9326-4E71-8D03-58B0EECDB3BB@avanthar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5981728485174100253==" --===============5981728485174100253== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/9/2024 1:50 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > Did something happen to comp.os.vms and/or usenet? All the DEC newsgroups = appear to be missing from Eternal September. > > Zane Eternal September and Thunderbird (I'm on a Mac) have been weird for me for a= while.=C2=A0 For example I have had no new messages there in comp.os.vms sin= ce 3/9 until today (3/12) and then I got 23 messages dated 3/10 - 3/12.=C2=A0= I even did a "Get Messages" several time and nothing.=C2=A0 I don't know if = it's Thunderbird or E-S. --=20 John H. Reinhardt --===============5981728485174100253==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Wed Mar 13 03:27:20 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Surplus Vintage Computer Sale @ Kennett Classic Starting Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 23:27:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0895551811178803614==" --===============0895551811178803614== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LINK: https://www.kennettclassic.com/surplus-sale-starts-3-19/ If you can make it to Kennett Square, PA USA between now and April 19th 2024, stop in and browse our inventory of surplus vintage computing items. The link above contains answers to questions. If you want to be added to the mailing list, visit kennettclassic.com and submit a contact form. Thanks Bill Degnan --===============0895551811178803614==-- From mumpsdev@icloud.com Wed Mar 13 19:21:02 2024 From: Tommy Chang To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Keyboard Blockers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 12:13:08 -0700 Message-ID: <83D529AB-91B2-4B1E-8398-73F2006F4E94@icloud.com> In-Reply-To: <8c106474-0ead-4ef1-b31b-be3af4f328e0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0017446916000291950==" --===============0017446916000291950== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I=E2=80=99ve seen that on Wyse terminals used for library OPAC=E2=80=99s (onl= ine public access catalog) running Dynix.=20 Tommy Chang > On Mar 10, 2024, at 7:22=E2=80=AFPM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI took a second look and here are the keys that were 'locked': > Set Up > Break > Del > Line INS Char > Line DEL Char > Scrn CLR Line > INS Repl > Escape > Home > All the Arrow keys, up, down, right, left >=20 > It's a standard ASCII Wyse Keyboard >=20 > Doug >=20 >> On 3/10/2024 6:10 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >> > I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but >> > on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be >> > stuck. I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black >> > plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing >> > the key. >>=20 >> > The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so >> > crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain >> > keys?" >>=20 >> I saw this in at least two applications: >>=20 >> 1. The Service Merchandise chain >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Merchandise) used serial >> terminals for their in-showroom catalog ordering. Some keys were >> blocked somehow, though I never peeled up key caps to see how. :) >> I want to say that backspace was one of the blocked keys, the >> aggravation of which is probably why I remember this. >>=20 >> 2. CLSI library systems (LIBS100 on PDP-11). Ours here had ADM-3A >> (iirc) terminals with the break key blocked, iirc, though there were >> plenty of other ways to discombobulate the thing inadvertently. It was >> also available via dialup from keyboards that were not so modified. >>=20 >> I once heated up a paper clip to read hot and shoved it through the stem >> of a TVI-925's SEND key, which was used for block mode functions, and >> caused the terminal to vomit screen contents back to the host. Unwanted >> presses of course produced a heck of a mess. (Older versions of our >> application ran in block mode, but you could always hit ESC-S to send >> the screen, and it was unfortunately easy, at least for me, to thwack >> SEND by mistake.) >>=20 >> De >=20 >=20 --===============0017446916000291950==-- From ggs@shiresoft.com Thu Mar 14 07:55:54 2024 From: Guy Sotomayor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] SMD/ESDI emulator progress report Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 23:33:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0956996504479112408==" --===============0956996504479112408== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I just wanted to provide a bit of a progress report on the SMD/ESDI emulator project. Now that I'm retired I have a bit more time to actually work on it.  Previously I was just doing a bunch of research and writing notes on the design.  I now have a solid design and I'm starting with the implementation. I'm going to list some of the design goals and then sketch out a few of the major issues and how they're being addressed. Goals: * Emulate any drive geometry * Emulate a drive's performance characteristics * Work across different interface types * Fully built emulator cost below $500 Major Issues: * SMD/ESDI have head switch times < 10 microseconds (basically the time it takes for the read amplifiers to settle on a "real" drive).  Solving this issue drives the majority of the design * Address marks on a "real" drive are implemented by writing a DC signal on the track and the read circuitry detects that and generates the address mark signal When looking at the specifications for SMD and ESDI disks there aren't really a lot of difference in how the drive behaves.  The interfaces differ in detail but in reality the differences are pretty minor.  So the current design should allow for 95+% code sharing between SMD and ESDI emulators. To solve the head switch performance, it is necessary to have an entire cylinder in some sort of RAM.  This allows for very fast head switch times (e.g. the selected head just addresses a particular portion of the RAM).  However, this means that loading a cylinder (which in some cases could be as much as 1MB) could take considerable time.  It will take even longer if some of the tracks in the cylinder are "dirty" due to them having being written to prior to the seek. Since I want the emulator to be able to faithfully emulate drives in all respects, the limiting factor is the cylinder-to-cylinder seek time (e.g. moving from one cylinder to another cylinder that is adjacent).  This is typically in the 4-8ms range.  So doing the math, one must move 1MB in 4ms (that turns out to be ~250MB/sec of bandwidth...using 32-bit transfers, this means over 60M transfers/sec). The above implies that the cylinder RAM and where the storage holding the cylinders of the image must be capable of at least 60M transfers/sec between them.  This is going to involve a complex FPGA that is able to have large internal RAMs and a direct connection to some sort of DRAM to hold the full image.  I've chosen to use a SOM (System-On-Module) version of the Xilinx Zynq 7020.  This has dual 32-bit ARM cores (plus a whole bunch of peripherals), 32-bit DDR3 memory interface, plus a fairly large FPGA with enough block RAM to contain the maximum cylinder.  The calculations I've done should allow a new cylinder to be loaded from DRAM into the cylinder RAM in 4-8ms (I think with a few tricks I can keep it in the lower range). I've looked a quite a few Zynq SOMs (and have acquired quite a few for evaluation purposes).  I finally found one that's ~$200 (most of the others are in the $400-$1000+ range).  This SOM brings out most of the Zynq's I/Os (94 I/Os) in addition to having ethernet, USB, serial, SD card, etc. as well as 1GB of 32-bit DDR3 DRAM.  It also runs Linux which means that developing the SW is fairly straight forward. The next issue was how to emulate address marks.  The emulated drive will have a bit clock which is necessary for clocking out the data when reading (or out when writing).  The bit clock is always running (just like a "real" drive when spinning).  That will drive a counter (which represents which bit is under the emulated "head"), that counter (along with the head number) will be used to address the block RAM.  The counter is always running, so as to emulate the spinning disk.  The address marks are emulated by having a series of comparators (one for each possible sector).  They compare the bit counter with the value associated with the comparator, if there's a match then that signals an address mark.  It's bit more complicated because writing address marks (in the case of soft-sectors) has to be dealt with. The emulator is composed of 4 major components: 1. Emulator application plus some utilities I'm currently writing all of this code...since I'd been a SW engineer for 50+ years, this is all "production" quality code and is extremely well documented...still a ways to go. 2. Linux device driver which provides the interface between the emulator application and the emulator HW I haven't started on the driver yet but it should be fairly straight forward as it really only provides an interface to the emulator HW to the emulator application 3. Emulator HW RTL I haven't started on this other than to do some basic blocks of what's here.  It mainly is the cylinder RAM, serdes (I *may* be able to finesse this by having 32-bits on the AXI bus and 1 bit on the interface side...a nice feature of the block RAM), address mark logic, bit counter and some command decode/handling (it'll handle the seek command all in the RTL...everything else will be handled by the application. 4. Interface board This should be a fairly simple board.  It's a carrier for the SOM, 3.3v-to-5v level shifters, interface circuits for SMD or ESDI (they use different interface ICs) and the interface to the cable. I'm starting with SMD just to make the board layout easier (I can just use 0.1" headers for interface cabling).  I also have an SMD disk exerciser that will make it easier to make sure it's working properly.  The idea is that once I have an SMD working reasonably well, I'll start on ESDI. Interacting with the emulator application can be any of the following: * config file: indicates various emulator startup options including which image (if any) to "mount" initially * command line: same as the config file * emulator utilities: these are mainly allow for changing which image is mounted, changing write protect status, querying state of emulator, etc.  The utilities can be used locally by logging into to Linux running on the Zynq 7020 or by using "host" versions if the emulator is connected to a network via ethernet. One of the key utilities is creating an "empty" (that is all tracks contain all 0's) image.  The image format has been finalized.  It allows for almost any geometry of disk (up to 32 heads and up to 65536 cylinders).  The main restriction is the 1GB of DRAM on the Zynq 7020 SOM.  I expect in reality that the largest drive that can be emulated will be ~600-700MB due to DRAM. I plan on providing some standardized "templates" (e.g. they'll describe actual drive geometries and seek performance tables) so creating new images won't be too onerous. I'll be putting all of the source, RTL and board files on github under a BSD license once I get further along. -- TTFN - Guy --===============0956996504479112408==-- From anders.k.nelson@gmail.com Fri Mar 15 16:10:01 2024 From: Anders Nelson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: SMD/ESDI emulator progress report Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:09:40 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7530921063272202839==" --===============7530921063272202839== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Guy, This sounds like a very cool project. FWIW I commissioned RTL work in Verilog using Upwork, with very good results. I'm an embedded C and C++ man myself and can (mostly) read Verilog but couldn't have delivered that code in a reasonable timeframe. Here's the husband and wife RTL team I worked with: https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~01453f295752b85d81. I hope they're still around, haha. I also found the Wavedrom tool super useful in creating timing diagrams: https://wavedrom.com/ Good luck with your emulator! -- Anders Nelson www.andersknelson.com On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 3:55 AM Guy Sotomayor via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I just wanted to provide a bit of a progress report on the SMD/ESDI > emulator project. > > Now that I'm retired I have a bit more time to actually work on it. > Previously I was just doing a bunch of research and writing notes on the > design. I now have a solid design and I'm starting with the > implementation. > > I'm going to list some of the design goals and then sketch out a few of > the major issues and how they're being addressed. > > Goals: > > * Emulate any drive geometry > * Emulate a drive's performance characteristics > * Work across different interface types > * Fully built emulator cost below $500 > > Major Issues: > > * SMD/ESDI have head switch times < 10 microseconds (basically the > time it takes for the read amplifiers to settle on a "real" drive). > Solving this issue drives the majority of the design > * Address marks on a "real" drive are implemented by writing a DC > signal on the track and the read circuitry detects that and > generates the address mark signal > > When looking at the specifications for SMD and ESDI disks there aren't > really a lot of difference in how the drive behaves. The interfaces > differ in detail but in reality the differences are pretty minor. So > the current design should allow for 95+% code sharing between SMD and > ESDI emulators. > > To solve the head switch performance, it is necessary to have an entire > cylinder in some sort of RAM. This allows for very fast head switch > times (e.g. the selected head just addresses a particular portion of the > RAM). However, this means that loading a cylinder (which in some cases > could be as much as 1MB) could take considerable time. It will take > even longer if some of the tracks in the cylinder are "dirty" due to > them having being written to prior to the seek. > > Since I want the emulator to be able to faithfully emulate drives in all > respects, the limiting factor is the cylinder-to-cylinder seek time > (e.g. moving from one cylinder to another cylinder that is adjacent). > This is typically in the 4-8ms range. So doing the math, one must move > 1MB in 4ms (that turns out to be ~250MB/sec of bandwidth...using 32-bit > transfers, this means over 60M transfers/sec). > > The above implies that the cylinder RAM and where the storage holding > the cylinders of the image must be capable of at least 60M transfers/sec > between them. This is going to involve a complex FPGA that is able to > have large internal RAMs and a direct connection to some sort of DRAM to > hold the full image. I've chosen to use a SOM (System-On-Module) > version of the Xilinx Zynq 7020. This has dual 32-bit ARM cores (plus a > whole bunch of peripherals), 32-bit DDR3 memory interface, plus a fairly > large FPGA with enough block RAM to contain the maximum cylinder. The > calculations I've done should allow a new cylinder to be loaded from > DRAM into the cylinder RAM in 4-8ms (I think with a few tricks I can > keep it in the lower range). > > I've looked a quite a few Zynq SOMs (and have acquired quite a few for > evaluation purposes). I finally found one that's ~$200 (most of the > others are in the $400-$1000+ range). This SOM brings out most of the > Zynq's I/Os (94 I/Os) in addition to having ethernet, USB, serial, SD > card, etc. as well as 1GB of 32-bit DDR3 DRAM. It also runs Linux which > means that developing the SW is fairly straight forward. > > The next issue was how to emulate address marks. The emulated drive > will have a bit clock which is necessary for clocking out the data when > reading (or out when writing). The bit clock is always running (just > like a "real" drive when spinning). That will drive a counter (which > represents which bit is under the emulated "head"), that counter (along > with the head number) will be used to address the block RAM. The > counter is always running, so as to emulate the spinning disk. The > address marks are emulated by having a series of comparators (one for > each possible sector). They compare the bit counter with the value > associated with the comparator, if there's a match then that signals an > address mark. It's bit more complicated because writing address marks > (in the case of soft-sectors) has to be dealt with. > > The emulator is composed of 4 major components: > > 1. Emulator application plus some utilities > I'm currently writing all of this code...since I'd been a SW > engineer for 50+ years, this is all "production" quality code and is > extremely well documented...still a ways to go. > 2. Linux device driver which provides the interface between the > emulator application and the emulator HW > I haven't started on the driver yet but it should be fairly straight > forward as it really only provides an interface to the emulator HW > to the emulator application > 3. Emulator HW RTL > I haven't started on this other than to do some basic blocks of > what's here. It mainly is the cylinder RAM, serdes (I *may* be able > to finesse this by having 32-bits on the AXI bus and 1 bit on the > interface side...a nice feature of the block RAM), address mark > logic, bit counter and some command decode/handling (it'll handle > the seek command all in the RTL...everything else will be handled by > the application. > 4. Interface board > This should be a fairly simple board. It's a carrier for the SOM, > 3.3v-to-5v level shifters, interface circuits for SMD or ESDI (they > use different interface ICs) and the interface to the cable. > > I'm starting with SMD just to make the board layout easier (I can just > use 0.1" headers for interface cabling). I also have an SMD disk > exerciser that will make it easier to make sure it's working properly. > The idea is that once I have an SMD working reasonably well, I'll start > on ESDI. > > Interacting with the emulator application can be any of the following: > > * config file: indicates various emulator startup options including > which image (if any) to "mount" initially > * command line: same as the config file > * emulator utilities: these are mainly allow for changing which image > is mounted, changing write protect status, querying state of > emulator, etc. The utilities can be used locally by logging into to > Linux running on the Zynq 7020 or by using "host" versions if the > emulator is connected to a network via ethernet. > > One of the key utilities is creating an "empty" (that is all tracks > contain all 0's) image. The image format has been finalized. It allows > for almost any geometry of disk (up to 32 heads and up to 65536 > cylinders). The main restriction is the 1GB of DRAM on the Zynq 7020 > SOM. I expect in reality that the largest drive that can be emulated > will be ~600-700MB due to DRAM. > > I plan on providing some standardized "templates" (e.g. they'll describe > actual drive geometries and seek performance tables) so creating new > images won't be too onerous. > > I'll be putting all of the source, RTL and board files on github under a > BSD license once I get further along. > > -- > TTFN - Guy > --===============7530921063272202839==-- From chd@chdickman.com Fri Mar 15 22:49:14 2024 From: Charles Dickman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Voyager spacecraft computer Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 18:48:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6201239939392642040==" --===============6201239939392642040== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Voyager 1 is in the news recently because of communications problems and possible solutions. Is there an online source for documentation on the Voyager systems, especially the computers and navigation systems? I have enjoyed reviewing the Apollo systems documentation on the Virtual AGS Home Page and wondered if there were similar documents available for Voyager. -chuck --===============6201239939392642040==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Sat Mar 16 00:14:36 2024 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Voyager spacecraft computer Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 20:14:19 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3822320130584658793==" --===============3822320130584658793== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:49 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > Voyager 1 is in the news recently because of communications problems and > possible solutions. Is there an online source for documentation on the > Voyager systems, especially the computers and navigation systems? > > I have enjoyed reviewing the Apollo systems documentation on the Virtual > AGS Home Page and wondered if there were similar documents available for > Voyager. "NASA Contractor Report 182505 Computers in Spaceflight: The NASA Experience" More of a top-level tour of a number of platforms, it covers, in quite some detail, systems from Gemini to the Space Shuttle and mentions the RCA 1802 numerous times. Samples of some NASA DSLs (HAL/S and GOAL). Extensive citations and bibilography. Voyager and Galileo are covered in Chapter 6. Public domain. PDF link at: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19880069935 Excellent stuff in there. -ethan --===============3822320130584658793==-- From rich.cini@verizon.net Sat Mar 16 01:17:28 2024 From: rich.cini@verizon.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Voyager spacecraft computer Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 01:15:20 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBYAPR14MB312538A66010D06172526F6AFD2F2=2Eref=40BYA?= =?utf-8?q?PR14MB3125=2Enamprd14=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0599599259463794331==" --===============0599599259463794331== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a printed version of this printed by Alpha Books, ISBN 1-56761-463-9= . I bought it years ago (1998) . Not sure if it=E2=80=99s 100% the same text, but it has a lot of nice pictu= res and was issued around the 25th anniversary of Apollo 11. It=E2=80=99s on = Amazon right now for $7.12. Rich On 3/15/24, 8:14 PM, "Ethan Dicks via cctalk" wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:49=E2=80=AFPM Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > Voyager 1 is in the news recently because of communications problems and > possible solutions. Is there an online source for documentation on the > Voyager systems, especially the computers and navigation systems? > > I have enjoyed reviewing the Apollo systems documentation on the Virtual > AGS Home Page and wondered if there were similar documents available for > Voyager. "NASA Contractor Report 182505 Computers in Spaceflight: The NASA Experience" More of a top-level tour of a number of platforms, it covers, in quite some detail, systems from Gemini to the Space Shuttle and mentions the RCA 1802 numerous times. Samples of some NASA DSLs (HAL/S and GOAL). Extensive citations and bibilography. Voyager and Galileo are covered in Chapter 6. Public domain. PDF link at: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19880069935 Excellent stuff in there. -ethan --===============0599599259463794331==-- From adam@ajdb.co.uk Sat Mar 16 18:05:08 2024 From: Adam Bradley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Two IBM 360's available in the UK Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 16:50:45 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3759259747664114646==" --===============3759259747664114646== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making the machines available to the right sort of people. We are therefore inviting proposals or offers focused around one of the following core ideas: 1. A museum or preservation organisation takes the machines on permanent loan or possibly as a donation depending upon exactly what the terms look like 2. A private entity takes the machines on loan for display for a fix period 3. A foreign museum takes the machines, with negotiation around coverage of our costs 4. A private collector purchases the machines from us for a sum to be negotiated at the time If you have an alternate proposal we would also be open to hearing it. We have three main systems in the collection, as detailed below: *Red IBM 360 Model 20 System* 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Red 1x 2203 System Printer 2x 2311 Disk Drives 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of this in the world, though in poor condition) 1x 2560 Punched Card Reader/Punch/Sorter 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only remaining examples of this model globally) 25x IBM Disc Packs *Blue IBM 360 Model 20 System* 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Blue 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader 1x 1403 Printer *System 370/125* 1x 370/125 CPU – Unknown condition 1x 3504 Punched card reader (incomplete) *Miscellaneous* 1x 029 Card Punch 1x 5471 System Console Assorted other spares and unknown/incomplete components Around 12 full boxes of brand new IBM punched cards ----------- In an ideal world we would like to see everything go together, but we understand that this is an enormous amount of kit and that might not be possible. We are not willing to split up individual systems, but we are willing to split things by the groupings above. For instance if there was interest in only the red system due to its complete set of peripherals, we would be willing to negotiate on that basis. It is extremely rare that systems such as this become available, and these are two of only a handful of privately held IBM 360’s in the world. If you have an idea or a proposal, please email me directly at this address. Please do NOT email me to suggest I contact X museum unless you are a representative of that museum or hold a direct relationship with them and know they are interested. We are genuinely sad that we’ve been unable to work on this project and take it where we wanted it to go. We set out with strong intentions, but alas, as is often the case life took over and we were unable to push forward in the way we wanted to. We hope that someone comes along who will be able to keep the systems safe for future generations. Kind Regards, Adam Bradley --===============3759259747664114646==-- From wdonzelli@gmail.com Sat Mar 16 18:14:01 2024 From: William Donzelli To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 14:13:45 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8187987872478485985==" --===============8187987872478485985== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well...just as I am typing up an email to you... Anyway, I hope these get saved - it is quite a score. I wish I could take it, but I can not. But I could take part of it, the System/370 model 125. It would be nice to bring it back to the US, assuming it was US built. Lets keep a channel open about this. -- Will On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:05 PM Adam Bradley via cctalk wrote: > > Hi all, > > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two > IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 > and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the > project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons > (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making > the machines available to the right sort of people. > > We are therefore inviting proposals or offers focused around one of the > following core ideas: > > 1. A museum or preservation organisation takes the machines on permanent > loan or possibly as a donation depending upon exactly what the terms look > like > 2. A private entity takes the machines on loan for display for a fix > period > 3. A foreign museum takes the machines, with negotiation around coverage > of our costs > 4. A private collector purchases the machines from us for a sum to be > negotiated at the time > > If you have an alternate proposal we would also be open to hearing it. > > We have three main systems in the collection, as detailed below: > > *Red IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Red > > 1x 2203 System Printer > > 2x 2311 Disk Drives > > 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of this in the > world, though in poor condition) > > 1x 2560 Punched Card Reader/Punch/Sorter > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only remaining > examples of this model globally) > > 25x IBM Disc Packs > > *Blue IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Blue > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > 1x 1403 Printer > > *System 370/125* > > 1x 370/125 CPU – Unknown condition > > 1x 3504 Punched card reader (incomplete) > > *Miscellaneous* > > 1x 029 Card Punch > > 1x 5471 System Console > > Assorted other spares and unknown/incomplete components > > Around 12 full boxes of brand new IBM punched cards > > ----------- > > In an ideal world we would like to see everything go together, but we > understand that this is an enormous amount of kit and that might not be > possible. We are not willing to split up individual systems, but we are > willing to split things by the groupings above. For instance if there was > interest in only the red system due to its complete set of peripherals, we > would be willing to negotiate on that basis. > > It is extremely rare that systems such as this become available, and these > are two of only a handful of privately held IBM 360’s in the world. > > If you have an idea or a proposal, please email me directly at this > address. Please do NOT email me to suggest I contact X museum unless you > are a representative of that museum or hold a direct relationship with them > and know they are interested. > > We are genuinely sad that we’ve been unable to work on this project and > take it where we wanted it to go. We set out with strong intentions, but > alas, as is often the case life took over and we were unable to push > forward in the way we wanted to. We hope that someone comes along who will > be able to keep the systems safe for future generations. > > Kind Regards, > > Adam Bradley --===============8187987872478485985==-- From wdonzelli@gmail.com Sat Mar 16 18:14:36 2024 From: William Donzelli To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 14:14:20 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6903421928536986277==" --===============6903421928536986277== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops, not meant to go to everyone... -- Will On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:13=E2=80=AFPM William Donzelli wrote: > > Well...just as I am typing up an email to you... > > Anyway, I hope these get saved - it is quite a score. I wish I could > take it, but I can not. > > But I could take part of it, the System/370 model 125. It would be > nice to bring it back to the US, assuming it was US built. > > Lets keep a channel open about this. > > -- > Will > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:05=E2=80=AFPM Adam Bradley via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued t= wo > > IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 > > and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the > > project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons > > (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making > > the machines available to the right sort of people. > > > > We are therefore inviting proposals or offers focused around one of the > > following core ideas: > > > > 1. A museum or preservation organisation takes the machines on permane= nt > > loan or possibly as a donation depending upon exactly what the terms l= ook > > like > > 2. A private entity takes the machines on loan for display for a fix > > period > > 3. A foreign museum takes the machines, with negotiation around covera= ge > > of our costs > > 4. A private collector purchases the machines from us for a sum to be > > negotiated at the time > > > > If you have an alternate proposal we would also be open to hearing it. > > > > We have three main systems in the collection, as detailed below: > > > > *Red IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Red > > > > 1x 2203 System Printer > > > > 2x 2311 Disk Drives > > > > 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of this in the > > world, though in poor condition) > > > > 1x 2560 Punched Card Reader/Punch/Sorter > > > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > > > 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only remaining > > examples of this model globally) > > > > 25x IBM Disc Packs > > > > *Blue IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Blue > > > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > > > 1x 1403 Printer > > > > *System 370/125* > > > > 1x 370/125 CPU =E2=80=93 Unknown condition > > > > 1x 3504 Punched card reader (incomplete) > > > > *Miscellaneous* > > > > 1x 029 Card Punch > > > > 1x 5471 System Console > > > > Assorted other spares and unknown/incomplete components > > > > Around 12 full boxes of brand new IBM punched cards > > > > ----------- > > > > In an ideal world we would like to see everything go together, but we > > understand that this is an enormous amount of kit and that might not be > > possible. We are not willing to split up individual systems, but we are > > willing to split things by the groupings above. For instance if there was > > interest in only the red system due to its complete set of peripherals, we > > would be willing to negotiate on that basis. > > > > It is extremely rare that systems such as this become available, and these > > are two of only a handful of privately held IBM 360=E2=80=99s in the worl= d. > > > > If you have an idea or a proposal, please email me directly at this > > address. Please do NOT email me to suggest I contact X museum unless you > > are a representative of that museum or hold a direct relationship with th= em > > and know they are interested. > > > > We are genuinely sad that we=E2=80=99ve been unable to work on this proje= ct and > > take it where we wanted it to go. We set out with strong intentions, but > > alas, as is often the case life took over and we were unable to push > > forward in the way we wanted to. We hope that someone comes along who will > > be able to keep the systems safe for future generations. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Adam Bradley --===============6903421928536986277==-- From emu@e-bbes.com Sat Mar 16 19:56:44 2024 From: emanuel stiebler To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: NRAO Data tapes Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:49:28 -0400 Message-ID: <4addc483-3d56-4d9b-b322-24d1102415ea@e-bbes.com> In-Reply-To: <7ed88560028e4ce180f3b978909c2369@nrao.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6099323705228753237==" --===============6099323705228753237== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-05-09 12:36, Dani Werts via cctalk wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I'm an employee with the National radio astronomy observatory here in Socor= ro New Mexico. > As part of our NGVLA upgrades, we are seeking to get rid of old data tapes = from the tape reel days of Computing. These contain things such as the boot l= oaders, OS, specific collection programs and antenna movement programs. > I personally would hate to see these just wind up in the literal dumpster a= nd would like to see them sent out to a museum or an archiving body that can = preserve them and keep them safe as a dynamic part of history. >=20 > If anyone is interested or knows someone who would be interested in the VLA= s data tape library please let me know. >=20 How did this work out? Did anybody read the tapes? --===============6099323705228753237==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sun Mar 17 14:13:37 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:13:11 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0025250096252046336==" --===============0025250096252046336== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have often wondered about the people we find in the various DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. Looking thru some of the books again I came across an interesting photo on page 42 of the 1981 pdp11 processor handbook / pdp11 04 24 34a 44 70. If you take a magnifier to the picture you will find the system presented in that photo is not a pdp11 but a VAX. :-) I wonder what other DEC systems are contained in these photos? bill --===============0025250096252046336==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Mar 17 14:55:10 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:55:00 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737FEE9BC78345E89882279ED2E2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0756428020461597464==" --===============0756428020461597464== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 17, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various > DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities > and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. I don't know any specifics, but they generally look like staged sessions to m= e. Most of those pictures are far too clean looking to be typical DEC facili= ties, and the people in them are generally dressed too nice for the typical D= EC workplace as well. =20 Some look like they might be set up at DEC training sites (like the one in Be= dford, MA near Mitre), that's about the only place I could think of where you= 'd see a nice looking arrangement of hardware and people dressed in suits and= ties. paul --===============0756428020461597464==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Sun Mar 17 15:07:36 2024 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 11:07:28 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0426747397975178789==" --===============0426747397975178789== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some of the pictures were staged in a parking lot. They probably didn=E2=80= =99t have a room big enough. > On Mar 17, 2024, at 10:55 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Mar 17, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> I have often wondered about the people we find in the various >> DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged >> photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities >> and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. >=20 > I don't know any specifics, but they generally look like staged sessions to= me. Most of those pictures are far too clean looking to be typical DEC faci= lities, and the people in them are generally dressed too nice for the typical= DEC workplace as well. =20 >=20 > Some look like they might be set up at DEC training sites (like the one in = Bedford, MA near Mitre), that's about the only place I could think of where y= ou'd see a nice looking arrangement of hardware and people dressed in suits a= nd ties. >=20 > paul >=20 >=20 --===============0426747397975178789==-- From drb@msu.edu Sun Mar 17 15:11:43 2024 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 11:11:39 -0400 Message-ID: <20240317151139.338034A472C@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737FEE9BC78345E89882279ED2E2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0166359764868945321==" --===============0166359764868945321== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various DEC > Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities and if > so, can anyone identify who they might be. Someone asked this about the covers of the old Prime manuals. The FAQ has a list of identifications, earlier ones were in-house staff, later stock photos were used. I'd be astonished if any of the photos were candid. I imagine DEC did much the same. De --===============0166359764868945321==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Sun Mar 17 15:38:36 2024 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 15:38:20 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20240317151139.338034A472C@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0324608657223577735==" --===============0324608657223577735== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HP at least sometimes used staff. I'm recalling 'Mr Fancypants' identified and contacted by Curious Marc in his series on the 9825 repairs. On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 3:11 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various DEC > > Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged > > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities and if > > so, can anyone identify who they might be. > > Someone asked this about the covers of the old Prime manuals. The FAQ > has a list of identifications, earlier ones were in-house staff, later > stock photos were used. I'd be astonished if any of the photos were > candid. > > I imagine DEC did much the same. > > De > --===============0324608657223577735==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Sun Mar 17 15:43:31 2024 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 15:43:17 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1769963957893809656==" --===============1769963957893809656== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 3:38 PM Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > > HP at least sometimes used staff. There's one HP publicity photo I remember that I surely hope was staged. It's for the HP9880 hard disk system for the HP9830 calculator. The disk drive is an HP7900, a fixed/removeable platter drive somewhat similar to an RK05. It the photo there's man next to it smoking a pipe. A darn good way to get a headcrash. -tony --===============1769963957893809656==-- From g4ajq1@gmail.com Sun Mar 17 15:44:26 2024 From: Nigel Johnson Ham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 11:44:19 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737FEE9BC78345E89882279ED2E2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5817975851881290225==" --===============5817975851881290225== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One of the pictures, in the PDP8 book, I think, featured Jim Votava, my instructor on several PDP11 hardware courses at PK2, so they were real DEC people as far as I know cheers, Nigel On 2024-03-17 10:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various > DEC Processor (and other) books.  Were they models in staged > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities > and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. > > Looking thru some of the books again I came across an interesting > photo on page 42 of the 1981 pdp11 processor handbook / pdp11 04 > 24 34a 44 70.  If you take a magnifier to the picture you will > find the system presented in that photo is not a pdp11 but a VAX. :-) > I wonder what other DEC systems are contained in these photos? > > bill -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 --===============5817975851881290225==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Sun Mar 17 16:02:39 2024 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 16:01:51 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1619350979862471516==" --===============1619350979862471516== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Great Western Railway is said to have used the Swindon DO staff to pose t= heir resturant and buffet car shots Martin -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 17 March 2024 15:44 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Nigel Johnson Ham Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books One of the pictures, in the PDP8 book, I think, featured Jim Votava, my instr= uctor on several PDP11 hardware courses at PK2, so they were real DEC people = as far as I know cheers, Nigel On 2024-03-17 10:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various DEC=20 > Processor (and other) books.=C2=A0 Were they models in staged=20 > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities and if=20 > so, can anyone identify who they might be. > > Looking thru some of the books again I came across an interesting=20 > photo on page 42 of the 1981 pdp11 processor handbook / pdp11 04 > 24 34a 44 70.=C2=A0 If you take a magnifier to the picture you will find=20 > the system presented in that photo is not a pdp11 but a VAX. :-) I=20 > wonder what other DEC systems are contained in these photos? > > bill -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin= of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 --===============1619350979862471516==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sun Mar 17 16:11:59 2024 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 11:11:52 -0500 Message-ID: <0fd50e35-af38-46e9-9e4c-75351d460210@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737FEE9BC78345E89882279ED2E2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2812935092936468265==" --===============2812935092936468265== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/17/24 09:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various > DEC Processor (and other) books.  Were they models in staged > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities > and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. I know that a guy I used to work for, who later hired on at DEC, was on a cover of one of the DEC publications.  Yes, the photos were certainly stages shots, but at least one person was not a hired model. Jon --===============2812935092936468265==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Mar 17 16:35:27 2024 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:35:09 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0fd50e35-af38-46e9-9e4c-75351d460210@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5618238792024697954==" --===============5618238792024697954== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 10:12=E2=80=AFAM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 3/17/24 09:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > > I have often wondered about the people we find in the various > > DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged > > photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities > > and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. > > I know that a guy I used to work for, who later hired on at > DEC, was on a cover of one of the DEC publications. Yes, > the photos were certainly stages shots, but at least one > person was not a hired model. > That matches what a DEC FE told me, at least about the VAX version: the people were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were planning the shots. Don't think they got extra modeling fees.. Warner > --===============5618238792024697954==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Mar 17 17:51:25 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 13:51:18 -0400 Message-ID: <07A86E07-D950-4CB4-B833-D33D19969551@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3382553716238770289==" --===============3382553716238770289== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 17, 2024, at 12:35 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 10:12=E2=80=AFAM Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> On 3/17/24 09:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> I have often wondered about the people we find in the various >>> DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged >>> photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities >>> and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. >>=20 >> I know that a guy I used to work for, who later hired on at >> DEC, was on a cover of one of the DEC publications. Yes, >> the photos were certainly stages shots, but at least one >> person was not a hired model. >=20 > That matches what a DEC FE told me, at least about the VAX version: the > people were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were > planning the shots. Don't think they got extra modeling fees.. I wouldn't expect modeling fees, given the wording of the standard employee a= greement. paul --===============3382553716238770289==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Mar 17 18:03:42 2024 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:03:25 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <07A86E07-D950-4CB4-B833-D33D19969551@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1520833008156244409==" --===============1520833008156244409== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 11:51 AM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On Mar 17, 2024, at 12:35 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 10:12 AM Jon Elson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> On 3/17/24 09:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > >>> > >>> I have often wondered about the people we find in the various > >>> DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged > >>> photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities > >>> and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. > >> > >> I know that a guy I used to work for, who later hired on at > >> DEC, was on a cover of one of the DEC publications. Yes, > >> the photos were certainly stages shots, but at least one > >> person was not a hired model. > > > > That matches what a DEC FE told me, at least about the VAX version: the > > people were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were > > planning the shots. Don't think they got extra modeling fees.. > > I wouldn't expect modeling fees, given the wording of the standard > employee agreement. > DEC was often frugal in the early days... Warner > --===============1520833008156244409==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Sun Mar 17 18:54:23 2024 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:54:15 -0400 Message-ID: <9b2cb75d-3103-4dc3-b5a3-8499f8fbac01@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <07A86E07-D950-4CB4-B833-D33D19969551@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6326824896784947472==" --===============6326824896784947472== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> That matches what a DEC FE told me, at least about the VAX version: the >> people were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were >> planning the shots. Don't think they got extra modeling fees.. > I wouldn't expect modeling fees, given the wording of the standard employee= agreement. > > paul > I can't imagine a company using staff for photo ops.=C2=A0 Young people now a= =20 days have tattoos, piercings and wear tee-shirts and flip-flops to work. --===============6326824896784947472==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Mar 17 18:58:49 2024 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:58:32 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9b2cb75d-3103-4dc3-b5a3-8499f8fbac01@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7908992246698872155==" --===============7908992246698872155== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 12:54 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> That matches what a DEC FE told me, at least about the VAX version: the > >> people were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were > >> planning the shots. Don't think they got extra modeling fees.. > > I wouldn't expect modeling fees, given the wording of the standard > employee agreement. > > > > paul > > > I can't imagine a company using staff for photo ops. Young people now a > days have tattoos, piercings and wear tee-shirts and flip-flops to work. > The 70s and 80s were a different time.. before business casual was a thing... Warner > --===============7908992246698872155==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Mar 17 19:58:08 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 15:58:00 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6237119343001848426==" --===============6237119343001848426== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 17, 2024, at 2:58 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 12:54=E2=80=AFPM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >=20 >>>> That matches what a DEC FE told me, at least about the VAX version: the >>>> people were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were >>>> planning the shots. Don't think they got extra modeling fees.. >>> I wouldn't expect modeling fees, given the wording of the standard >> employee agreement. >>>=20 >>> paul >>>=20 >> I can't imagine a company using staff for photo ops. Young people now a >> days have tattoos, piercings and wear tee-shirts and flip-flops to work. >>=20 >=20 > The 70s and 80s were a different time.. before business casual was a > thing... Certainly tattoos on white collar workers were unheard of when I started at D= EC, but "business casual" was very definitely the norm there. Especially amo= ng engineers, who were as likely as not to show up in t-shirts and jeans. Fo= r that matter, that was my usual attire even the first 2 years when I did tra= veling software support, and for that matter when I attended DECUS. I distinctly remember a comment from a DEC customer at DECUS: "When I'm at DE= CUS, I always seek out the people wearing t-shirts, because I know they are t= he ones who know what they are talking about." paul --===============6237119343001848426==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sun Mar 17 22:13:40 2024 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 17:13:34 -0500 Message-ID: <085780c0-d8ad-f80a-7cf6-f6b76cc7baeb@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: <0fd50e35-af38-46e9-9e4c-75351d460210@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1261373472404105986==" --===============1261373472404105986== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/17/24 11:11, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 3/17/24 09:13, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> >> I have often wondered about the people we find in the >> various >> DEC Processor (and other) books.  Were they models in staged >> photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC >> facilities >> and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. > > I know that a guy I used to work for, who later hired on > at DEC, was on a cover of one of the DEC publications.  > Yes, the photos were certainly stages shots, but at least > one person was not a hired model. I was caught a little off-guard on the initial question, now I have finally remembered his name - Bernard Hayes.  He was a REALLY smart dude,and I was not at all surprised when DEC hired him. Jon --===============1261373472404105986==-- From linimon@portsmon.org Mon Mar 18 00:43:22 2024 From: Mark Linimon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 19:43:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1968365826.41122.1710722593155@privateemail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7169832285472439274==" --===============7169832285472439274== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were > planning the shots. "Planning" may assume facts not in evidence :-) Some photographers wandered around my employer of the time, Recognition Equipment. (Like my Canadian girlfriend, you haven't heard of it.) I was near enough to a piece of machinery to be told "point to that console like you are doing something to it". So somewhere in some ancient Annual Report you can find a picture of a clean- shaven me. My 15 seconds of fame. Well maybe not all 15. So the "plan" was, we're on deadline, get some shots. mcl --===============7169832285472439274==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Mon Mar 18 02:37:00 2024 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Semi-OT: MAX180 Evaluation Kit ROM/Diskette Image Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 02:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6286064267997812363==" --===============6286064267997812363== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I'm looking for an image of the ROM or companion diskette for the Maxim MAX18= 0 Evaluation Kit (MAX180EVKIT). I've got one that has a custom application RO= M in it. Thanks, Jonathan --===============6286064267997812363==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Mon Mar 18 08:03:18 2024 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:03:07 +0100 Message-ID: <63e5b9d6-e1e0-f54f-c075-6d6ee218d2d@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8801332682057780429==" --===============8801332682057780429== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Adam Bradley wrote: > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two > IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 > and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the > project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons > (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making > the machines available to the right sort of people. Sad to hear that. We (Computermuseum Stuttgart) did place a bid, too. We were a bit disappointed that instead of going just 200km, it went abroad to a now non-EU country (which makes re-importing unattractive). But then, after we saw the pictures of the house and the system, we were somehow glad that we did not win ;-) We realised that, first, the overall condition is unknown or bad, and second, it is simply not worth more than a couple of hundred Euros considering all the forthcoming costs and time needed to transport the lot, store and restore it etc. I don't know if History(a)IBM was interested, though (they have a working 360/20 system). And maybe the Vintage Computing Lab in Munich was interested, too (they have a large mainframes collection, and also the last IBM 705, although not complete). I guess that the UK /360s are now "lost" for any non-profit/non-budget museum in the EU. Christian --===============8801332682057780429==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Mon Mar 18 09:34:13 2024 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Bitsavers Zuse scans Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:34:02 +0100 Message-ID: <40709a7e-a87d-8b5b-f3e-91ac8eae3bf@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2504224343598631647==" --===============2504224343598631647== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With great interest, I have seen that there are now scans for the Z23=20 (perhaps more coming soon :-) ). But I have to admit that I am so much disappointed of the quality. I mean,=20 whoever scanned this all, did he have a single look at the output? I do=20 this, for each of the many scans, may they be only a single or many=20 hundred pages. Example: .../zuse/Z23/Zuse_Z23_Beschreibung_einschlie%c3%9flich_der_Zusazger=C3=A4te_F= ebruar_1962.pdf PDF pages 16/17: this is a no-go. This must not happen in a document uploaded to bitsavers. Pages 32-35 (and many others, too): what the heck happened here?? And there appears to have been some "intelligent" post-processing of the=20 images that renders them very artificially. Sorry for the rant, but that is not what I would accept as archiving=20 material. I'd offer to rescan them (guessing that the origin is from=20 Germany) reasonably. Christian --===============2504224343598631647==-- From dave.g4ugm@gmail.com Mon Mar 18 09:36:23 2024 From: dave.g4ugm@gmail.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:36:18 +0000 Message-ID: <324b01da7917$baefb010$30cf1030$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <63e5b9d6-e1e0-f54f-c075-6d6ee218d2d@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3891533964088785035==" --===============3891533964088785035== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Corti via cctalk > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 8:03 AM > To: Adam Bradley via cctalk > Cc: Christian Corti > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Adam Bradley wrote: > > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) > > rescued two IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in > > Nuremberg back in 2019 and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: > https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress > > the project due to personal & professional commitments. For various > > reasons (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters > > for making the machines available to the right sort of people. > > Sad to hear that. > We (Computermuseum Stuttgart) did place a bid, too. We were a bit > disappointed that instead of going just 200km, it went abroad to a now non-EU > country (which makes re-importing unattractive). But then, after we saw the > pictures of the house and the system, we were somehow glad that we did not > win ;-) We realised that, first, the overall condition is unknown or bad, and > second, it is simply not worth more than a couple of hundred Euros considering > all the forthcoming costs and time needed to transport the lot, store and restore > it etc. > I don't know if History(a)IBM was interested, though (they have a working > 360/20 system). And maybe the Vintage Computing Lab in Munich was > interested, too (they have a large mainframes collection, and also the last IBM > 705, although not complete). > I guess that the UK /360s are now "lost" for any non-profit/non-budget museum > in the EU. Why should this be. I don't believe there is any import duty on items for exhibit in a museum. Any VAT should be on the current value. Yes there would be the cost of transport, but I am sure that could be crowd funded or otherwise sorted. I think the big question is, could it realistically be restored? Who would actually want to do this if they don't own it and don't have any guaranteed future rights. These questions are why many Museums only accept unconditional donations, but its also why people don't want to donate to museums as the future of the objects can be uncertain. > > > Christian Dave --===============3891533964088785035==-- From turing@shaw.ca Mon Mar 18 10:15:21 2024 From: Norman Jaffe To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 04:08:09 -0600 Message-ID: <208254236.57259985.1710756489427.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> In-Reply-To: <1968365826.41122.1710722593155@privateemail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6551155978921688582==" --===============6551155978921688582== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had the same experience while working for a (very) small company called Nor= thwest Digital Research.=20 I was asked to point to a big HP plotter that was running one of our programs= ... and the photograph wound up in our product brochure.=20 Of course, I had nothing to do with that program...=20 From: "Mark Linimon via cctalk" =20 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" =20 Cc: "Mark Linimon" =20 Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 5:43:13 PM=20 Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books=20 > were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were=20 > planning the shots.=20 "Planning" may assume facts not in evidence :-)=20 Some photographers wandered around my employer of the time, Recognition=20 Equipment. (Like my Canadian girlfriend, you haven't heard of it.)=20 I was near enough to a piece of machinery to be told "point to=20 that console like you are doing something to it". So somewhere=20 in some ancient Annual Report you can find a picture of a clean-=20 shaven me. My 15 seconds of fame.=20 Well maybe not all 15.=20 So the "plan" was, we're on deadline, get some shots.=20 mcl=20 --===============6551155978921688582==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Mon Mar 18 10:53:32 2024 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 06:52:54 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <208254236.57259985.1710756489427.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0684449224298712555==" --===============0684449224298712555== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A photographer wandered around my workplace looking at all of the men's hands. They were doing a closeup shot and needed just hands. More than a little strange. On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 6:15 AM Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: > I had the same experience while working for a (very) small company called > Northwest Digital Research. > I was asked to point to a big HP plotter that was running one of our > programs... and the photograph wound up in our product brochure. > Of course, I had nothing to do with that program... > > From: "Mark Linimon via cctalk" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: "Mark Linimon" > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 5:43:13 PM > Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books > > > were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were > > planning the shots. > > "Planning" may assume facts not in evidence :-) > > Some photographers wandered around my employer of the time, Recognition > Equipment. (Like my Canadian girlfriend, you haven't heard of it.) > I was near enough to a piece of machinery to be told "point to > that console like you are doing something to it". So somewhere > in some ancient Annual Report you can find a picture of a clean- > shaven me. My 15 seconds of fame. > > Well maybe not all 15. > > So the "plan" was, we're on deadline, get some shots. > > mcl > --===============0684449224298712555==-- From g4ajq1@gmail.com Mon Mar 18 10:55:08 2024 From: Nigel Johnson Ham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 06:55:02 -0400 Message-ID: <6f3e54c5-8897-4065-8ce9-f06804f1e19e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <208254236.57259985.1710756489427.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2982261073425519194==" --===============2982261073425519194== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In my first job,I was a trainee Field Engineer on a Univac 418 system at=20 Bell Canada which ran a store-and-forward message service to hundreds of=20 Model 33 and 35 teletypes across the nation. Bell wanted to promote it, so they hired a movie producer. I happened to=20 be on duty that day. The man insisted I push some paper tape into the reader the wrong way.=C2=A0 = I explained that I could strip the machine down and show him the ratchet=20 proving the direction but he wouldn't hear it. He said 'he had seen one=20 of those before'. I have used this as an example to my students why everything you see in=20 a movie is fantasy! cheers, Nigel On 2024-03-18 06:08, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: > I had the same experience while working for a (very) small company called N= orthwest Digital Research. > I was asked to point to a big HP plotter that was running one of our progra= ms... and the photograph wound up in our product brochure. > Of course, I had nothing to do with that program... > > From: "Mark Linimon via cctalk" =20 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" =20 > Cc: "Mark Linimon" =20 > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 5:43:13 PM > Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books > >> were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were >> planning the shots. > "Planning" may assume facts not in evidence :-) > > Some photographers wandered around my employer of the time, Recognition > Equipment. (Like my Canadian girlfriend, you haven't heard of it.) > I was near enough to a piece of machinery to be told "point to > that console like you are doing something to it". So somewhere > in some ancient Annual Report you can find a picture of a clean- > shaven me. My 15 seconds of fame. > > Well maybe not all 15. > > So the "plan" was, we're on deadline, get some shots. > > mcl --=20 Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 --===============2982261073425519194==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Tue Mar 19 00:09:18 2024 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 00:09:07 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6f3e54c5-8897-4065-8ce9-f06804f1e19e@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8186498363878019991==" --===============8186498363878019991== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fyi, if you have small hands you can get work as a hand model. E.G. Holding a= bottle of liquor makes it look big. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 18, 2024, at 03:55, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFIn my first job,I was a trainee Field Engineer on a Univac 418 sys= tem at Bell Canada which ran a store-and-forward message service to hundreds = of Model 33 and 35 teletypes across the nation. >=20 > Bell wanted to promote it, so they hired a movie producer. I happened to be= on duty that day. >=20 > The man insisted I push some paper tape into the reader the wrong way. I e= xplained that I could strip the machine down and show him the ratchet proving= the direction but he wouldn't hear it. He said 'he had seen one of those bef= ore'. >=20 > I have used this as an example to my students why everything you see in a m= ovie is fantasy! >=20 > cheers, >=20 > Nigel >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 2024-03-18 06:08, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: >> I had the same experience while working for a (very) small company called = Northwest Digital Research. >> I was asked to point to a big HP plotter that was running one of our progr= ams... and the photograph wound up in our product brochure. >> Of course, I had nothing to do with that program... >>=20 >> From: "Mark Linimon via cctalk" To: "General Dis= cussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "Mark Li= nimon" Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 5:43:13 PM >> Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books >>=20 >>> were just DEC employees that caught somebody's eye when they were >>> planning the shots. >> "Planning" may assume facts not in evidence :-) >>=20 >> Some photographers wandered around my employer of the time, Recognition >> Equipment. (Like my Canadian girlfriend, you haven't heard of it.) >> I was near enough to a piece of machinery to be told "point to >> that console like you are doing something to it". So somewhere >> in some ancient Annual Report you can find a picture of a clean- >> shaven me. My 15 seconds of fame. >>=20 >> Well maybe not all 15. >>=20 >> So the "plan" was, we're on deadline, get some shots. >>=20 >> mcl >=20 > --=20 > Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU > Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! > Skype: TILBURY2591 >=20 --===============8186498363878019991==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Tue Mar 19 01:31:17 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 18:31:00 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCY4PR1001MB2181ADBEA3DAFC66A6D1ACEEE42C2=40CY4PR10?= =?utf-8?q?01MB2181=2Enamprd10=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0375021942104650357==" --===============0375021942104650357== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 5:09 PM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Fyi, if you have small hands you can get work as a hand model. E.G. > Holding a bottle of liquor makes it look big. > I think that also works in porn. I played Steve Wozniak's hands in the A&E Biography of the same (circa 2002-2003?) Sellam --===============0375021942104650357==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 21 17:20:05 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 13:19:53 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <946dace0-59d5-46ed-83e9-c9e98c8c86fd@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5145477524868392272==" --===============5145477524868392272== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Time to dispose of some more of my stuff so it doesn't end up in the trash when my widow has to clear the house. Any interest in BA356-SBs? All with disks in them. And I have a decent stack of used RZs in caddies. I even still have 11 RZ28's still in the static bags. Would have to be someone close enough to pick them up here in the Poconos but I have seen a lot of postings from people in Eastern PA and north and middle NJ. Is it worth my taking the time to count up exactly what I have or would no one be interested in making an offer. They will not be going on eBay. Just for information, I have used these with PDP-11's with 3rd party SCSI modules, PC's with SCSI Cards and Ersatz-11 and even a Tandy Color Computer with a TC^3 SCSI card and NitrOS9. bill --===============5145477524868392272==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 21 17:58:34 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 13:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB573777EB21501CC04FE25F12ED322=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2881593948393665203==" --===============2881593948393665203== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything? bill --===============2881593948393665203==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Thu Mar 21 18:02:38 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:02:23 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737F138BFE6B49CCF71D2A4ED322=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0143514722661681494==" --===============0143514722661681494== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:58 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything? > > bill > Bill, eBay is good for gauging interest and pricing out stuff like this. Recent sales there show there is at least general interest, and they seem to sell for sub-$20 each. Sellam --===============0143514722661681494==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 21 19:26:39 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 15:26:21 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2231875566466678440==" --===============2231875566466678440== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/21/2024 2:02 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:58 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything? >> >> bill >> > > Bill, > > eBay is good for gauging interest and pricing out stuff like this. Recent > sales there show there is at least general interest, and they seem to sell > for sub-$20 each. > As a buyer I have done well on eBay. As a seller all I ever did was waste my time. At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort. It would cost more than that in postage. How about an HP Scanjet IIcx scanner with SCSI interface. Other than historical value probably not much interest there either. bill --===============2231875566466678440==-- From sqrfolkdnc@comcast.net Thu Mar 21 19:33:41 2024 From: CAREY SCHUG To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 14:33:34 -0500 Message-ID: <837913462.1271199.1711049614170@connect.xfinity.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737BFADE5959C4856CB5BFCED322=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1866374586506660104==" --===============1866374586506660104== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I assumed the checking ebay was to get a price. I do that all the time, but = have never sold anything.=20 --to see what they sold for over time, maybe the last few weeks they went for= $50, but most of the time they go for $30, so if not in a hurry, I just keep= bidding $30 till I get one. --does anybody want to comment on whether ebay prices are less, similar, or g= reater than at live VCFs? I have not made the effort to collect history. 
--Carey
> On 03/21/2024 2:26 PM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =20 > On 3/21/2024 2:02 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:58=E2=80=AFAM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >=20 > >> > >> Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything? > >> > >> bill > >> > >=20 > > Bill, > >=20 > > eBay is good for gauging interest and pricing out stuff like this. Recent > > sales there show there is at least general interest, and they seem to sell > > for sub-$20 each. > >=20 >=20 > As a buyer I have done well on eBay. As a seller all I ever did was > waste my time. At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort. It would > cost more than that in postage. >=20 > How about an HP Scanjet IIcx scanner with SCSI interface. Other than > historical value probably not much interest there either. >=20 > bill --===============1866374586506660104==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Thu Mar 21 21:01:22 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 14:01:05 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <837913462.1271199.1711049614170@connect.xfinity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4434418546886109173==" --===============4434418546886109173== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:33 PM CAREY SCHUG via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > --does anybody want to comment on whether ebay prices are less, similar, > or greater than at live VCFs? I have not made the effort to collect > history. > It depends, usually less. Sometimes the same or more. Sellam --===============4434418546886109173==-- From a.carlini@ntlworld.com Thu Mar 21 21:36:58 2024 From: Antonio Carlini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 21:10:27 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <63e5b9d6-e1e0-f54f-c075-6d6ee218d2d@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8514776767421920458==" --===============8514776767421920458== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a VAX 4000 with a console SLU that has been host to a battery for far too long. I removed the battery some time ago and cleaned things up with vinegar and IPA. Then I had PSU issues, which I've resolved by swapping for a NOS one (thanks Witchy!). Last Wednesday (13-MAR-2024) it booted to the dead sergeant prompt for the first time in a decade or two (I would guess). It was set to 19200 baud and the console 7-segment LED was a bit the worse for wear, but it responded to the VT420 quite happily. But tonight, although it seemed to power up OK, the console was unresponsive. Shining a light into the MMJ socket showed pin 2 is missing (2nd from the left looking into the socket (https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/serial/dec-mmj-serial/). The rest show patches of the sort of green you would expect from something that has been near a leaky battery for some time. Now I have some console SLUs for the KA650 (uVAX 3600) which have also generously hosted batteries for longer than they should, but I suppose if one of those has an OK looking socket I can try a swap. Otherwise, does anyone have any ideas for a source? I know I could solder to the six pins at the back and make an adapter, but that is I think would be a stop gap 9or a last resort if no parts are available. Pin 2 is TXD+ so I suppose that the RX side still works. I have no suitable storage for this system (well, I have some RF71 drives but not the carriers that would be needed to connect to the backplane properly), so I was planning to netboot from a SIMH instance on a PC. However, to configure that I would need the ethernet MAC address, and I can't think of a simple way to get that. unless someone knows whether the ethernet ID prom is readable in something like a TL866II Plus? Anyway, thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas. Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============8514776767421920458==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Thu Mar 21 21:45:46 2024 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 16:12:55 -0500 Message-ID: <616d9521-2465-41e2-8d17-ec6280323519@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4360082756480886892==" --===============4360082756480886892== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Considering how high some prices are on eBay.  I would rather something go to a good home at a lower price than help drive the prices up on ePay. On 3/21/2024 4:01 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:33 PM CAREY SCHUG via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> --does anybody want to comment on whether ebay prices are less, similar, >> or greater than at live VCFs? I have not made the effort to collect >> history. >> > It depends, usually less. Sometimes the same or more. > > Sellam --===============4360082756480886892==-- From cctalk@beyondthepale.ie Thu Mar 21 22:08:25 2024 From: Peter Coghlan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 21:51:52 +0000 Message-ID: <01T3H4STI2JK8WVYW0@beyondthepale.ie> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5751618962296426481==" --===============5751618962296426481== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Pin 2 is TXD+ so I suppose that the RX side still works. I have no > suitable storage for this system (well, I have some RF71 drives but not > the carriers that would be needed to connect to the backplane properly), > so I was planning to netboot from a SIMH instance on a PC. However, to > configure that I would need the ethernet MAC address, and I can't think > of a simple way to get that. unless someone knows whether the ethernet > ID prom is readable in something like a TL866II Plus? > Assuming you find a solution for the console port issue, can't you just try netbooting it and see what mac address the load requests have? You could either use some ethernet monitoring software such as tcpdump, ethermon, wireshark or whatever or your MOP server may even report load requests it sees on the network to OPCOM. Regards, Peter Coghlan. --===============5751618962296426481==-- From mark.romberg@gmail.com Thu Mar 21 22:52:44 2024 From: mark audacity romberg To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 17:52:28 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737BFADE5959C4856CB5BFCED322=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5636704760169294353==" --===============5636704760169294353== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage is the= standard.=20 > At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort. It would > cost more than that in postage. --===============5636704760169294353==-- From a.carlini@ntlworld.com Thu Mar 21 22:58:40 2024 From: Antonio Carlini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 22:58:32 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2076114460.7856.1711058627185@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1535226414993714972==" --===============1535226414993714972== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 21/03/2024 22:03, Jonathan Stone wrote: > What kind of VAX 4000? One with DSSI connectors on the "S:U", or the > /VAX 4000-200/KA660, which has serial and Ethernet? IIRC you can > klludge up the latter using a KA630 SLU, and either re-using the > AUI/10base-2 part of the SLU, > or kludging one from a DEQNA/DELQA to act like the AUI-select switch > setting and AUI of the original > Those come off the KA660 in a single IDC connector, 50 pin if memory > serves. > > I have no idea about substituting for DSSI. It's a VAX 4000-300 (KA670) in a BA440, so it has two DSSI, ethernet, the usual switches and LED display.  I can switch ethernet between AUI and BNC (the green LEDs change) and I have known working DETPM AUI<->RJ45 interfaces, so ethernet may be OK. I have found one panel for a KA650 (uV 3500/3600) that has an OK connector but is otherwise a bit toasty, so I'll try carefully removing that tomorrow. If that goes OK, then I'll remove the MMJ socket from the VAX 4000 console SLU: it's dead so there's not really much risk here as long as I'm careful with the PCB. At least I could then tack on 6 wires and find a way of interfacing. I do have at least one H8584-AC, which is an MMJ socket and an RJ45 plug. So with a bit of measuring I could probably find an RJ45 socket and rig up some temporary franken-console. Or, if the KA650 donor is really too far gone, and its socket survives half a dozen cable insertion-removals with no harm, then I could just fit that in place. If the console ethernet doesn't work, I think I can drop in the DELQA with appropriate handles from the KA650 system ... I think that the BA440 Q-bus metalwork and the BA213 metalwork are compatible. If not I have one Q-bus DELQA panel and I'm sure that neither the VAX nor anything else in there with it care too much about RF interference these days! I can find new MMJ plugs all over the place (admittedly I'm assuming that Mouser and Farnell could actually supply them!!) but the corresponding sockets seem to be lost to time. Or at least they remain beyond my goolge-fu. Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============1535226414993714972==-- From a.carlini@ntlworld.com Thu Mar 21 23:02:30 2024 From: Antonio Carlini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 23:02:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3e47dbea-027b-4567-8f92-8727c030b0b4@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <01T3H4STI2JK8WVYW0@beyondthepale.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7453521680073089838==" --===============7453521680073089838== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 21/03/2024 21:51, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > Assuming you find a solution for the console port issue, can't you just > try netbooting it and see what mac address the load requests have? > > You could either use some ethernet monitoring software such as tcpdump, > ethermon, wireshark or whatever or your MOP server may even report > load requests it sees on the network to OPCOM. I have a W7 system running SIMH that I was going to configure as the cluster master ... I completely forgot that I could just turn on the OPER console replies and look for a message. I can even boot the VS400-60 over the ethernet to prove that I have SIMH configured properly. Of course, I don't know that the console ethernet works, but this would tell me pretty clearly one way or the other. Thanks for that: I blame the 5 hours of driving for me missing the obvious, but it might be the 20+ years of not fiddling with OpenVMS on a daily basis :-) Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============7453521680073089838==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Thu Mar 21 23:52:22 2024 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 16:52:20 -0700 Message-ID: <023301da7bea$d0e2a910$72a7fb30$@net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9143017660111442921==" --===============9143017660111442921== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage > is the standard. > I think Bill is just being a decent guy and saying that it would cost more to ship it out then the item would cost/be bought for (i.e. $20 for item, $50 to ship) and how that wouldn't be nice or make sense for the buyer. But that is just a guess. -Ali --===============9143017660111442921==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Fri Mar 22 00:26:59 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 17:26:43 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <023301da7bea$d0e2a910$72a7fb30$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3452559658144445389==" --===============3452559658144445389== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 4:52 PM Ali via cctalk wrote: > > Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage > > is the standard. > > > > I think Bill is just being a decent guy and saying that it would cost more > to ship it out then the item would cost/be bought for (i.e. $20 for item, > $50 to ship) and how that wouldn't be nice or make sense for the buyer. > > But that is just a guess. > > -Ali > No, from what I saw, the average price was sub-$20 including shipping. It's easy enough to ship though: a quick wrap in some bubble wrap and throw it in a USPS standard sized Priority Mail box and out it goes. A quick $5-$10 for a few minutes of your time (if you're experienced at it). Sellam --===============3452559658144445389==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Mar 22 00:28:48 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 20:28:29 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4128858330181922417==" --===============4128858330181922417== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/21/2024 6:52 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote: > Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage is t= he standard. >=20 >> At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort. It would >> cost more than that in postage. And if the cost of shipping is more than the cost of the item I stop at that point. As another note, back when I tried to be an eBay seller, I had eBay refuse to let me sell things claiming I was asking too much for postage. Being as the only shipping method I ever used was the USPS "if it fits it ships" which seemed to be pretty much the cheapest method I could find. It seemed they wanted me to subsidize the shipping myself. I gave up trying. bill --===============4128858330181922417==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Fri Mar 22 01:19:31 2024 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 01:19:25 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7581254368031124388==" --===============7581254368031124388== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I d= o an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. Thanks! 73 Eugene w2hx --===============7581254368031124388==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Mar 22 01:24:44 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 21:23:26 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB526919E2107B6D9285806ADDB5312=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7596584131508822675==" --===============7596584131508822675== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/21/2024 9:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I= do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. >=20 > Thanks! > 73 Eugene w2hx >=20 Turn off the power switch. Unlike most other OSes people here are familiar with there are no background processes running on RT-11. bill KB3YV --===============7596584131508822675==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Fri Mar 22 01:35:49 2024 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 01:35:40 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57375476F11072C6F7A5E8ABED312=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1180878322283648585==" --===============1180878322283648585== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, Bill. Still feels strange. No need to park the HD head either I guess. Pl= ease take a look at this picture. Knowing nothing, I did a .SHOW ALL and this= list of JOBs showed up. Are these not background processes? https://w2hx.com/x/VintageComp/micropdp/20240321_203329.jpg Thanks 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk =20 Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 9:23 PM To: W2HX via cctalk Cc: Bill Gunshannon Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? On 3/21/2024 9:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I= do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. >=20 > Thanks! > 73 Eugene w2hx >=20 Turn off the power switch. Unlike most other OSes people here are familiar w= ith there are no background processes running on RT-11. bill KB3YV --===============1180878322283648585==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Fri Mar 22 07:02:31 2024 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 23:52:17 +0000 Message-ID: <928287115a07491da2f804883422d80a@emeritus-solutions.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2835874141758541378==" --===============2835874141758541378== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://www.rapidonline.com/assmann-wsw-a-20141-6-pin-rj12-socket-black-50-14= 51 Not an MMJ socket, but a cousin - the key is central not offset, and perhaps = a different footprint / orientation (but not all that is available) - something like this might match the PCB footprint, but require reterminatio= n of the console cable - alternatively it could donate a new contact pin, doubtless a horror to fit Martin -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Carlini via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 21 March 2024 22:59 To: Jonathan Stone ; antonio(a)acarlini.com Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; Antonio Carlini Subject: [cctalk] Re: VAX 4000 console SLU in need of some TLC On 21/03/2024 22:03, Jonathan Stone wrote: > What kind of VAX 4000? One with DSSI connectors on the "S:U", or the=20 > /VAX 4000-200/KA660, which has serial and Ethernet? IIRC you can=20 > klludge up the latter using a KA630 SLU, and either re-using the > AUI/10base-2 part of the SLU, > or kludging one from a DEQNA/DELQA to act like the AUI-select switch=20 > setting and AUI of the original Those come off the KA660 in a single=20 > IDC connector, 50 pin if memory serves. > > I have no idea about substituting for DSSI. It's a VAX 4000-300 (KA670) in a BA440, so it has two DSSI, ethernet, the usu= al switches and LED display.=C2=A0 I can switch ethernet between AUI and BNC = (the green LEDs change) and I have known working DETPM AUI<->RJ45 interfaces, so ethernet may be OK. I have found one panel for a KA= 650 (uV 3500/3600) that has an OK connector but is otherwise a bit toasty, so= I'll try carefully removing that tomorrow. If that goes OK, then I'll remove= the MMJ socket from the VAX 4000 console SLU: it's dead so there's not reall= y much risk here as long as I'm careful with the PCB. At least I could then t= ack on 6 wires and find a way of interfacing. I do have at least one H8584-AC= , which is an MMJ socket and an RJ45 plug. So with a bit of measuring I could= probably find an RJ45 socket and rig up some temporary franken-console. Or, = if the KA650 donor is really too far gone, and its socket survives half a doz= en cable insertion-removals with no harm, then I could just fit that in place. If the console ethernet doesn't work, I think I can drop in the DELQA with ap= propriate handles from the KA650 system ... I think that the BA440 Q-bus metalwork and the BA213 metalwork are compatible. If not I have o= ne Q-bus DELQA panel and I'm sure that neither the VAX nor anything else in t= here with it care too much about RF interference these days! I can find new MMJ plugs all over the place (admittedly I'm assuming that Mou= ser and Farnell could actually supply them!!) but the corresponding sockets s= eem to be lost to time. Or at least they remain beyond my goolge-fu. Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============2835874141758541378==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Mar 22 13:31:53 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:23:36 -0400 Message-ID: <6C0995AC-5AF2-421F-AF99-CA86F12EE21C@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB52696C16570A69AEB7872FFAB5312=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1010709414779224381==" --===============1010709414779224381== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 21, 2024, at 9:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrot= e: >=20 > Ok, Bill. Still feels strange. No need to park the HD head either I guess. = DEC disks do that themselves, at power down. paul --===============1010709414779224381==-- From jsw@ieee.org Fri Mar 22 14:59:51 2024 From: Jerry Weiss To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:59:43 -0500 Message-ID: <95c7ca2b-8d71-49d2-a4d3-24c3cefd14cd@ieee.org> In-Reply-To: <6C0995AC-5AF2-421F-AF99-CA86F12EE21C@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8888650431836978253==" --===============8888650431836978253== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I make sure that any disk squeeze is complete and other programs are=20 quiescence. Then I just halt the processor or emulator. =C2=A0Jerry On 3/22/24 8:23 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Mar 21, 2024, at 9:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk wro= te: >> >> Ok, Bill. Still feels strange. No need to park the HD head either I guess. > DEC disks do that themselves, at power down. > > paul > > --===============8888650431836978253==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Mar 22 15:06:01 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 11:05:54 -0400 Message-ID: <49450194-008C-47BC-95B6-4F1517F30DBB@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <95c7ca2b-8d71-49d2-a4d3-24c3cefd14cd@ieee.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0793873558071975441==" --===============0793873558071975441== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 22, 2024, at 10:59 AM, Jerry Weiss wrote: >=20 > I make sure that any disk squeeze is complete and other programs are quiesc= ence. Good point -- while the OS doesn't have a shutdown procedure, some applicatio= n and utilities don't want to be interrupted in the middle of specific operat= ions, and "disk squeeze" is one example of that. The RT11 file system has the nice property that it doesn't mind being interru= pted at any time; there is no such thing as a file system cleanup ("fsck" or = the like) and inherently no need for one. paul --===============0793873558071975441==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Fri Mar 22 21:54:27 2024 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 14:54:12 -0700 Message-ID: <8575A78A-2A83-4368-8D98-8BE852BCE1CC@avanthar.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB526919E2107B6D9285806ADDB5312=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5972571134652062063==" --===============5972571134652062063== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mar 21, 2024, at 6:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: >=20 > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I= do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. >=20 > Thanks! > 73 Eugene w2hx In this respect it=E2=80=99s similar to many personal computer OS=E2=80=99s o= f the time frame, in that you can simply turn it off. It=E2=80=99s a fantast= ic OS in its simplicity, and a great way to learn about the PDP-11. Zane --===============5972571134652062063==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Fri Mar 22 22:00:42 2024 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 23:00:25 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8575A78A-2A83-4368-8D98-8BE852BCE1CC@avanthar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6516801410225184033==" --===============6516801410225184033== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54=E2=80=AFPM Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > On Mar 21, 2024, at 6:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk > wrote: > > > > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How > do I do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. > > > > Thanks! > > 73 Eugene w2hx > > In this respect it=E2=80=99s similar to many personal computer OS=E2=80=99s= of the time > frame, in that you can simply turn it off. It=E2=80=99s a fantastic OS in = its > simplicity, and a great way to learn about the PDP-11. > Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. Warner > --===============6516801410225184033==-- From db@db.net Fri Mar 22 22:46:10 2024 From: Diane Bruce To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 18:38:41 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0446983728680271915==" --===============0446983728680271915== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54=E2=80=AFPM Zane Healy via cctalk ... > Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. sync;sync;sync power off I remember it well. >=20 > Warner >=20 > > >=20 Diane --=20 db(a)FreeBSD.org db(a)db.net http://www.db.net/~db https://ottawa.place/@Dian= ora --===============0446983728680271915==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Sat Mar 23 02:28:59 2024 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:19:33 -0500 Message-ID: <57dce188-df90-41fc-a518-794ec5c8bc23@jwsss.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737CC78EF0EDCF8AB54D5F8ED312=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0164423331386806093==" --===============0164423331386806093== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/21/24 19:28, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > And if the cost of shipping is more than the cost of the item > I stop at that point. I recently paid $5 for a Visara terminal box, paid 45 to have it shipped from Canada.  (free trade agreement Us <-->  Canada, nope).  Anyway, won't second guess on what the buyer wants to pay vs shipping. Also isn't there a scam that Ebay uses to supply underwritten lower shipping costs?  Or is it exclusive to big sellers?  Out of touch with that.  However have seen varying versions of that on different platforms. The guy who sold the terminal made no comment, too his 5iver and sent it along.  And since I have a pile of these terminals, I'm happy to get it. thanks Jim --===============0164423331386806093==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sat Mar 23 14:54:05 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:53:56 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3929594839290026886==" --===============3929594839290026886== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 22, 2024, at 6:38 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54=E2=80=AFPM Zane Healy via cctalk > ... >> Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. >=20 > sync;sync;sync > power off >=20 > I remember it well. Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critical= to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when at= the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran = it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facility= to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Illi= ac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to camp= us protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file syste= m manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or = perhaps wasn't reliable yet. paul --===============3929594839290026886==-- From doc@vaxen.net Sat Mar 23 15:13:31 2024 From: Doc Shipley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:04:29 -0500 Message-ID: <142e6be1-d956-465d-8193-3f67d815c441@vaxen.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5757015637467586828==" --===============5757015637467586828== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/23/24 09:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 > Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critic= al to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when = at the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ra= n it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facili= ty to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Il= liac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to ca= mpus protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file sys= tem manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, o= r perhaps wasn't reliable yet. >=20 > paul >=20 You say that like fsck is reliable now.... Doc --===============5757015637467586828==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sat Mar 23 15:17:23 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 11:16:50 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737F138BFE6B49CCF71D2A4ED322=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8378628196296427638==" --===============8378628196296427638== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. bill --===============8378628196296427638==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sat Mar 23 15:24:12 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 11:23:49 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57377F6EA6F940834467DC98ED302=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8086037546355216354==" --===============8086037546355216354== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/23/2024 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. > > Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever >        IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) > > I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. > Wow!!! Maybe I should try eBay again. I was going to let them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing for $180 to $250. :-) bill --===============8086037546355216354==-- From sqrfolkdnc@comcast.net Sat Mar 23 15:47:37 2024 From: CAREY SCHUG To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:47:06 -0500 Message-ID: <254675858.1315459.1711208826064@connect.xfinity.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57374FA5B9A6D6BF5488DC8CED302=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0057371696285314588==" --===============0057371696285314588== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what am I missing? I thought I put your item in search and found this: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=3DR40&_trksid=3Dp2334524.m570.l1313&_nk= w=3DAllied+Telesis+CentreCOM+210TS+Twisted+Pair+Transciever&_sacat=3D0&_odkw= =3Dphoto+scanner+innovative&_osacat=3D0 going for $10 and up (not sold) this $10 item I think I have stacks of too. 
--Carey
> On 03/23/2024 10:23 AM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =20 > On 3/23/2024 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. > >=20 > > Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) > >=20 > > I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. > >=20 >=20 >=20 > Wow!!! Maybe I should try eBay again. I was going to let > them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing > for $180 to $250. :-) >=20 > bill --===============0057371696285314588==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Sat Mar 23 15:50:16 2024 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 15:25:28 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4221468112599161161==" --===============4221468112599161161== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember it as kill -9 1 then sync halt Or sync sync halt On March 23, 2024 2:53:56 PM GMT, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Mar 22, 2024, at 6:38 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54=E2=80=AFPM Zane Healy via cctalk >> ... >>> Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. >>=20 >> sync;sync;sync >> power off >>=20 >> I remember it well. > >Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critica= l to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when a= t the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran= it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facilit= y to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Ill= iac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to cam= pus protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file syst= em manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or= perhaps wasn't reliable yet. > > paul > --===============4221468112599161161==-- From mark.romberg@gmail.com Sat Mar 23 15:53:46 2024 From: mark audacity romberg To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:53:30 -0500 Message-ID: <7382937A-8ACB-48A5-B294-8A77A0AC5495@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57dce188-df90-41fc-a518-794ec5c8bc23@jwsss.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5797360611672061339==" --===============5797360611672061339== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Free trade agreement doesn=E2=80=99t mean it=E2=80=99s free to send things, m= an. It means you don=E2=80=99t pay import/export tariffs.=20 > On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:29, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > (free trade agreement Us <--> Canada, nope).=20 --===============5797360611672061339==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Sat Mar 23 15:56:58 2024 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 11:56:38 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57374FA5B9A6D6BF5488DC8CED302=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5410588459221779710==" --===============5410588459221779710== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 at 11:24, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 3/23/2024 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. > > > > Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever > > IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) > > > > I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. > > > > > Wow!!! Maybe I should try eBay again. I was going to let > them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing > for $180 to $250. :-) > You have to look at sold listings to get an idea of what they are actually selling for. There are many, shall we say, overly ambitious sellers when it comes to vintage hardware. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?kw=3D210ts+transciever&toolid=3D20004&LH_Sold= =3D1&LH_Complete=3D1 Looks like $20 is about the going rate. -Henry --===============5410588459221779710==-- From a.carlini@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 23 16:42:42 2024 From: Antonio Carlini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:42:34 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0403664261343198795==" --===============0403664261343198795== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 23/03/2024 15:56, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote > You have to look at sold listings to get an idea of what they are actually > selling for. There are many, shall we say, overly ambitious sellers when > it comes to vintage hardware. > > https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?kw=3D210ts+transciever&toolid=3D20004&LH_So= ld=3D1&LH_Complete=3D1 > > Looks like $20 is about the going rate. > > -Henry The first hit on ebay.co.uk is =C2=A3399, so I sense an arbitrage opportunity= =20 :-) It may take a while to sell, but I'm patient ! Antonio --=20 Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============0403664261343198795==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sat Mar 23 17:08:11 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 13:07:59 -0400 Message-ID: <633B5EAA-8AAC-4F8A-B833-11C9B727412C@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <142e6be1-d956-465d-8193-3f67d815c441@vaxen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4301087007183397160==" --===============4301087007183397160== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 23, 2024, at 11:04 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 3/23/24 09:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly criti= cal to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when= at the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation r= an it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facil= ity to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house I= lliac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to c= ampus protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file sy= stem manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, = or perhaps wasn't reliable yet. >> paul >=20 > You say that like fsck is reliable now.... :-} Then again, mostly it's no longer relevant, given journaled file systems. paul --===============4301087007183397160==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Sat Mar 23 17:11:53 2024 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:06:02 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2602010761588070871==" --===============2602010761588070871== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 23, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 23/03/2024 15:56, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote >> You have to look at sold listings to get an idea of what they are actually >> selling for. There are many, shall we say, overly ambitious sellers when >> it comes to vintage hardware. >>=20 >> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?kw=3D210ts+transciever&toolid=3D20004&LH_S= old=3D1&LH_Complete=3D1 >>=20 >> Looks like $20 is about the going rate. >>=20 >> -Henry >=20 >=20 > The first hit on ebay.co.uk is =C2=A3399, so I sense an arbitrage opportuni= ty :-) It may take a while to sell, but I'm patient ! You just need one impatient buyer. Normally I=E2=80=99m a patient buyer, som= e stuff I=E2=80=99ve spent years watching for. OTOH, that also means I miss = out on a few items when the seller doesn=E2=80=99t drop the price, and they= =E2=80=99re the only seller. Zane --===============2602010761588070871==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sat Mar 23 17:11:59 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 13:11:30 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57377F6EA6F940834467DC98ED302=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8547288799023377726==" --===============8547288799023377726== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 23, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. >=20 > Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever > IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) >=20 > I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. >=20 > bill Nice. FWIW, 10BaseT transceivers are still made, for example https://www.l-com.com/= ethernet-converters-l-com-10baset-to-t-aui-ethernet-transceiver and https://w= ww.omnitron-systems.com/product-families/flexpoint-unmanaged-media-converters= /flexpoint-ethernet-copper-to-fiber-media-converters/flexpoint-10aui-t paul --===============8547288799023377726==-- From g4ugm@outlook.com Sat Mar 23 17:15:43 2024 From: David Wade To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 17:15:37 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57374FA5B9A6D6BF5488DC8CED302=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2065033505813386784==" --===============2065033505813386784== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 3:24 PM > To: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > Cc: Bill Gunshannon > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 3/23/2024 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. > > > > Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) > > > > I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. > > >=20 >=20 > Wow!!! Maybe I should try eBay again. I was going to let > them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing for $180 to = $250. > :-) >=20 > bill You can list them for whatever you want, and if you are lucky someone might p= ay it. On the other hand, the most one has sold for on E-Bay in the past 90 days is = $50 so if you want to sell them $20-$25 seems a good price point.... .. and there is one currently listed for $9.99... https://www.ebay.com/itm/326023934007 ... I think I paid around $30 for the last one I bought but it was a while ag= o... Dave G4UGM --===============2065033505813386784==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Sat Mar 23 23:29:13 2024 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Allied Telesyn stuff was Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:29:04 -0700 Message-ID: <950e9301-5f23-4d60-a05e-3760b108836d@floodgap.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57374FA5B9A6D6BF5488DC8CED302=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4554936224542699732==" --===============4554936224542699732== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. >> >> Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) >> >> I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. >> >=20 >=20 > Wow!!!=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe I should try eBay again.=C2=A0 I was going to let > them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing > for $180 to $250.=C2=A0 :-) Hmm. I have a drawer full of these and I think they furiously multiply in the dark like little metal network gerbils. Every so often I put one in service when a new machine arrives but I never seem to run out. Allied Telesis/Allied Telesyn kit is good stuff. I have a 10MBit hub from them that's been in continuous service since at least 1998. It won't die. --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- I've never had but one wrinkle, and I'm sitting on it. -- Jeanne Calment -= -- --===============4554936224542699732==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Sat Mar 23 23:29:49 2024 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:29:44 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <142e6be1-d956-465d-8193-3f67d815c441@vaxen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9020670340430091619==" --===============9020670340430091619== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > You say that like fsck is reliable now... There's a reason it's only one letter off. --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- Donald Knuth ----------= -- --===============9020670340430091619==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Sat Mar 23 23:31:45 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Allied Telesyn stuff was Re: Cleanup time again Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:31:29 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <950e9301-5f23-4d60-a05e-3760b108836d@floodgap.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1066217705258639453==" --===============1066217705258639453== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 4:29 PM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > >> Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. > >> > >> Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever > >> IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) > >> > >> I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. > >> > > > > > > Wow!!! Maybe I should try eBay again. I was going to let > > them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing > > for $180 to $250. :-) > > Hmm. I have a drawer full of these and I think they furiously multiply in > the > dark like little metal network gerbils. > You're not supposed to feed them after midnight. Sellam --===============1066217705258639453==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sat Mar 23 23:35:24 2024 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:35:19 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1223071862933855369==" --===============1223071862933855369== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> You say that like fsck is reliable now... On Sat, 23 Mar 2024, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > There's a reason it's only one letter off. I've always wondered, . . . "Feature" or "bug"? Deliberate, or one of possibly many errors in development? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============1223071862933855369==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Sun Mar 24 03:22:34 2024 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF East Hotel Block #3 (Wall, NJ) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 23:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6267872197098710429==" --===============6267872197098710429== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VCF East Hotel Block #3 I have opened up another hotel block: Red Roof Inn 11 Centre Plaza Eatontown, NJ 20% discount. Call 732-389-4646 before the cut off date 03/31/2024 and book your room under the Vintage Computer Festival East group name. For tickets: vcfeast.eventbrite.com April 12-14, 2024 Wall, NJ https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/ --===============6267872197098710429==-- From als@thangorodrim.ch Sun Mar 24 14:50:17 2024 From: Alexander Schreiber To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 15:23:08 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7169670157938136864==" --===============7169670157938136864== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 03:58:00PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 > I distinctly remember a comment from a DEC customer at DECUS: "When I'm at = DECUS, I always seek out the people wearing t-shirts, because I know they are= the ones who know what they are talking about." Reminds of something that happened at a previous job, where I was part of the small Unix team. We had bought an expensive pile of HP-UX related kit from HP and apparently also some HP consultant time for training on said kit. First day of training, HP consultant shows up in usual full on business attire. Starts talking about stuff (e.g. SAN management and and clustering related things) in a very ... "HP business" kind of lingo, which rubbed us rather the wrong way. So I interrupt him, pointing out: a) we already understand Unix TYVM and are mostly interested in the HP-UX specific details and b) drop the business lingo and start talking plain text, we're Unix admins, not MBAs. With a heavy unsaid implication of "You are wearing a suit while explaining tech, that makes it hard to take you seriously". So, step 1) said HP consultant _did_ drop the "HP business" lingo and started talking plain Unix. And step 2) beginning the next day, he always showed up at our site in shirt and jeans and was taken seriously now ;-) That was ... sometime in the early 2000. Kind regards, Alex. --=20 "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison --===============7169670157938136864==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Sun Mar 24 16:32:07 2024 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 16:31:49 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3392515623610230747==" --===============3392515623610230747== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's well known that a necktie restricts the supply of blood to the brain. --===============3392515623610230747==-- From keith@techtravels.org Sun Mar 24 17:05:25 2024 From: Keith M To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 17:05:20 +0000 Message-ID: <171129992097.4006402.226382865288968671@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4960345351467601227==" --===============4960345351467601227== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm looking for an HP 9000 Visualize workstation, like a B160L or B180L+. I'll be attending VCF East in a few weeks so might find one there. Has anyone used Cypress technology out of Clearwater, FL? It seems they provi= de a nice, fully configured to spec turnkey solution, but there's no doubt th= ey charge for it. http://www.cypress-tech.com/=20 Any better HP-specific forums or references would be appreciated! Thanks --===============4960345351467601227==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Mar 24 17:26:25 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 13:26:17 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5914747048349986806==" --===============5914747048349986806== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 24, 2024, at 12:31 PM, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: >=20 > It's well known that a necktie restricts the supply of blood to the brain. One of my DEC coworkers called it a "cranial tourniquet". paul --===============5914747048349986806==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sun Mar 24 19:20:41 2024 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 12:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <171129992097.4006402.226382865288968671@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5003457550843161469==" --===============5003457550843161469== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 10:05 AM Keith M via cctalk wrote: > I'm looking for an HP 9000 Visualize workstation, like a B160L or B180L+. > > I'll be attending VCF East in a few weeks so might find one there. > > Has anyone used Cypress technology out of Clearwater, FL? It seems they > provide a nice, fully configured to spec turnkey solution, but there's no > doubt they charge for it. > http://www.cypress-tech.com/ > > Any better HP-specific forums or references would be appreciated! > > Thanks > Jesse of Cypress is on this list, and the VintHPcom(a)groups.io list. I've bought an HP A990 system from Cypress direct, and other HP parts from them through eBay. You get what you pay for. --===============5003457550843161469==-- From keith@techtravels.org Sun Mar 24 22:57:54 2024 From: Keith M To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 22:57:50 +0000 Message-ID: <171132107059.4006402.6156229430998692362@classiccmp.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7301279930324364759==" --===============7301279930324364759== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Glen for the info! --===============7301279930324364759==-- From keith@techtravels.org Sun Mar 24 23:35:53 2024 From: Keith Monahan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:27:56 -0400 Message-ID: <53794ba7-764f-4819-82ee-c9aaf421b4c5@techtravels.org> In-Reply-To: <28F73077-4F60-472B-9440-9D87DDA401D4@eschatologist.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0700542470973374942==" --===============0700542470973374942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, No clue what others are using them for. In my case, I've got an HP Logic=20 Analyzer that's based on something similar to an embedded version of the=20 B160L, using a 32-bit PA-RISC 1.1 PA-7300LC at 150mhz. I've had a few=20 ideas/thoughts/projects around experimenting with writing drivers,=20 adding LASI SCSI support to qemu, amongst others. Minimizing differences from what the LA uses and the workstation is my=20 focus. There's things like 64-bit PA-RISC 2.0 machines are clearly out.=20 Not all the C-Class, for instance, are based on LASI. Some use U2, some=20 use UTurn. The C160L might work, the C160 would not. I'll email you off-list. And, sorry, I should have said. I'm in=20 Pittsburgh, PA. Thanks, Keith On 3/24/2024 5:59 PM, Chris Hanson wrote: > I just looked at the prices on eBay=E2=80=94yikes! All of my HP hardware fr= om that era was pretty inexpensive a few years back. >=20 > What are people using the B180L for that=E2=80=99s driven the prices so hig= h? I assume it=E2=80=99s another =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=99s a piece of equipmen= t that was built around this specific platform 20+ years ago, and we=E2=80=99= re still running it so we need spares=E2=80=9D situation, just like the equip= ment that was built around the VAXstation 4000 Model 90 which keeps the price= on that insane. >=20 > Is there a specific need you=E2=80=99re trying to fill? I wound up with an = additional B- or C-series workstation as part of a deal, I can check what mod= el it is (it=E2=80=99s in storage right now) and we can talk off-list about m= aybe getting it to a good home. (I=E2=80=99m in the SF Bay Area if that helps= , no idea where you are.) >=20 > -- Chris >=20 > PS - There=E2=80=99s a Vintage HP Computers group at https://groups.io/g/Vi= ntHPcom/ where you=E2=80=99ll also find lots of folks talking about the entir= e range of HP computer hardware. --===============0700542470973374942==-- From cmhanson@eschatologist.net Mon Mar 25 00:17:28 2024 From: Chris Hanson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 14:59:15 -0700 Message-ID: <28F73077-4F60-472B-9440-9D87DDA401D4@eschatologist.net> In-Reply-To: <171129992097.4006402.226382865288968671@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7488823273535111418==" --===============7488823273535111418== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just looked at the prices on eBay=E2=80=94yikes! All of my HP hardware from= that era was pretty inexpensive a few years back. What are people using the B180L for that=E2=80=99s driven the prices so high?= I assume it=E2=80=99s another =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=99s a piece of equipment = that was built around this specific platform 20+ years ago, and we=E2=80=99re= still running it so we need spares=E2=80=9D situation, just like the equipme= nt that was built around the VAXstation 4000 Model 90 which keeps the price o= n that insane. Is there a specific need you=E2=80=99re trying to fill? I wound up with an ad= ditional B- or C-series workstation as part of a deal, I can check what model= it is (it=E2=80=99s in storage right now) and we can talk off-list about may= be getting it to a good home. (I=E2=80=99m in the SF Bay Area if that helps, = no idea where you are.) -- Chris PS - There=E2=80=99s a Vintage HP Computers group at https://groups.io/g/Vint= HPcom/ where you=E2=80=99ll also find lots of folks talking about the entire = range of HP computer hardware. --===============7488823273535111418==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Mon Mar 25 15:30:16 2024 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: <-5Xy24qL8tXOefkSiViOwUkj-6qOGVrvjFNwPQb2wWo3K2igfDHo3OmLey-uMGyZ9vucINWbVf28V-5jrRa7j0CmWv0SfohNiNQeIwKt6AY=@virtadpt.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6680681347207206705==" --===============6680681347207206705== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Saturday, March 23rd, 2024 at 16:35, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > You say that like fsck is reliable now... > > There's a reason it's only one letter off. >=20 > I've always wondered, . . . > "Feature" or "bug"? > Deliberate, or one of possibly many errors in development? I recall hearing somewhere else.net that it was management forcing it to be renamed because the original name was "fuck". And technically it's still supposed to be pronounced that way. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean. --===============6680681347207206705==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Mon Mar 25 17:49:17 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 13:49:06 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB573777EB21501CC04FE25F12ED322=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7199723576201510613==" --===============7199723576201510613== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's . Even I had forgotten that any of them were that big. Of course, the probably eliminates their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you take them out of the box. :-) bill --===============7199723576201510613==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Mon Mar 25 17:51:20 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 13:51:11 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737B77DB468354696125C3EED362=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6701931400708468224==" --===============6701931400708468224== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/25/2024 1:49 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > > In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks > in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's .  Even I had forgotten > that any of them were that big.  Of course, the probably eliminates > their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you > take them out of the box.  :-) > And, just for yocks I looked for them on the web. Amazing how many people are selling them with bogus specs like 10,000 RPM. :-) bill --===============6701931400708468224==-- From rachael@telefisk.org Mon Mar 25 19:00:58 2024 From: Jacob Dahl Pind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] vic-20 basic on cartridge Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:03:25 +0100 Message-ID: <59a1238a-f3f5-4c8e-bd86-5c3f810d55c8@telefisk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0880262421164478519==" --===============0880262421164478519== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got a vic-20 in a painted case, with a biacom label, and a modified VIC-1110 8kb memory, where there have been added a 8kb eprom have been to the left side where the additional 8kb could be installed. https://telefisk.org/biacom_8kb_a000+8kbmem.rom https://telefisk.org/biacom_basic.txt The autostart rom code, that disables runstop, moves and starts basic , does seem to initialize everthing like a normal start does. Adding the rom to vice without reset and do a poke 44,161, to move the basic start to 41216, one can look at the code. The software seems to be made to print signs, but I havent had much luck getting vice to print, I only get a blank page. Looking at the code line 60 # Line Spacing of n/216 inch chr$(27) "3" chr$(n) line 61 # chr$(14) One-line Expanded Print # chr$(20) cancel expanded print line 68 # single density 60dpi line lenght 135 + (256*1) does look like it match up to the commodore/epson codes, printing the basic list with open1,4,7:print#1:cmd1:list works in text and graphics for the mps80x, but not from the basic code there. Wonder if I am running into a bug with the print emulation or it was made to use a different printer ? Regards -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 --===============0880262421164478519==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Mar 25 19:07:53 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:07:35 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <59a1238a-f3f5-4c8e-bd86-5c3f810d55c8@telefisk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5375542289189569518==" --===============5375542289189569518== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you have a vic20 to try it there first? Maybe it's looking for a printer to relocated to a different assigned number than the default. I have seen this before in the B series world to get around conflicts with the base ROMs in the main board. Bill On Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 3:01 PM Jacob Dahl Pind via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I got a vic-20 in a painted case, with a biacom label, and a modified > VIC-1110 8kb memory, where there have been added a 8kb eprom have been > to the left side where the additional 8kb could be > installed. > > https://telefisk.org/biacom_8kb_a000+8kbmem.rom > https://telefisk.org/biacom_basic.txt > > The autostart rom code, that disables runstop, moves and starts basic , > does seem to initialize everthing like a normal start does. > Adding the rom to vice without reset and do a poke 44,161, to move the > basic start to 41216, one can look at the code. > > The software seems to be made to print signs, but I havent had much luck > getting vice to print, I only get a blank page. > > Looking at the code > line 60 > # Line Spacing of n/216 inch chr$(27) "3" chr$(n) > line 61 > # chr$(14) One-line Expanded Print > # chr$(20) cancel expanded print > line 68 > # single density 60dpi line lenght 135 + (256*1) > > does look like it match up to the commodore/epson codes, printing the > basic list with open1,4,7:print#1:cmd1:list works in text and > graphics for the mps80x, but not from the basic code there. > > Wonder if I am running into a bug with the print emulation or it was > made to use a different printer ? > > Regards > > > -- > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 > --===============5375542289189569518==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Mon Mar 25 22:05:48 2024 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 18:05:31 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737B77DB468354696125C3EED362=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8464512240563541222==" --===============8464512240563541222== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is there a manufacturer's equivalent number for an RX-1DB? On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 1:49 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks > in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's . Even I had forgotten > that any of them were that big. Of course, the probably eliminates > their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you > take them out of the box. :-) > > bill > --===============8464512240563541222==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Mon Mar 25 22:19:47 2024 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 18:19:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6369174355213780252==" --===============6369174355213780252== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 18:05, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > Is there a manufacturer's equivalent number for an RX-1DB? > I believe that Bill was referring to the RZ1DB, which is a 9.1GB Quantum Atlas II. -Henry --===============6369174355213780252==-- From rachael@telefisk.org Mon Mar 25 23:53:24 2024 From: Jacob Dahl Pind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 00:53:30 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1001809953155194588==" --===============1001809953155194588== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 25/03/2024 20.07, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Do you have a vic20 to try it there first? Maybe it's looking for a > printer to relocated to a different assigned number than the default. I > have seen this before in the B series world to get around conflicts with > the base ROMs in the main board. > Bill I do have vic-20 machines, but no iec printers, so i dumped the rom for to use with emulators. The code uses poke154,4 to change the output from device 3 screen to device 4. does its printing and changes back to screen printing with poke 154,3 again, a few times in the code the memory address it pokes *009A 154 Output (CMD) device, normally 3 the actual printing starts at line 60, First I tried to just change code so it didnt redirect to the print but showed it on the screen, by changing those 154,4 , doesnt work for the esc commands ofcause. Regards -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 --===============1001809953155194588==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Tue Mar 26 00:14:50 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:14:39 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9193728245489543404==" --===============9193728245489543404== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/25/2024 6:19 PM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 18:05, Mike Stein via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> Is there a manufacturer's equivalent number for an RX-1DB? >> >=20 > I believe that Bill was referring to the RZ1DB, which is a 9.1GB Quantum > Atlas II. Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. bill --===============9193728245489543404==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Tue Mar 26 00:24:34 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Plessey 703185-100C Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:24:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <76ad148a-a3e8-4145-a7e3-91facee40dba@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8163615323088341940==" --===============8163615323088341940== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, sorting thru stuff I came across this white elephant again. I never found anything to positively identify it but I always assumed it was some kind of buss extender. One board is fully populated with chips and the other connected together with a ribbon cable is totally passive. But this time I found the funniest thing about it. The passive end has a sticker on it with an expiration date. I have to admit I have never found an expiration date on any of my PDP or VAX hardware before. :-) bill --===============8163615323088341940==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Mar 26 00:28:42 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:28:25 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8112523855537134275==" --===============8112523855537134275== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...It was a thought... On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 7:53 PM Jacob Dahl Pind via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 25/03/2024 20.07, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Do you have a vic20 to try it there first? Maybe it's looking for a > > printer to relocated to a different assigned number than the default. I > > have seen this before in the B series world to get around conflicts with > > the base ROMs in the main board. > > Bill > I do have vic-20 machines, but no iec printers, so i dumped the rom for > to use with emulators. > The code uses poke154,4 to change the output from device 3 screen to > device 4. does its printing and changes back to screen printing with > poke 154,3 again, a few times in the code > > the memory address it pokes > *009A 154 Output (CMD) device, normally 3 > > the actual printing starts at line 60, First I tried to just change code > so it didnt redirect to the print but showed it on the screen, by > changing those 154,4 , doesnt work for the esc commands ofcause. > > Regards > > -- > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 > > --===============8112523855537134275==-- From g4ajq1@gmail.com Tue Mar 26 00:31:06 2024 From: Nigel Johnson Ham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Plessey 703185-100C Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:30:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3e48b9db-ab61-4633-8461-64be144ad854@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737BF54F08B5E19F676BB7CED352=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1069000087869824776==" --===============1069000087869824776== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 'Funny' and 'Plessey' in the same sentence?  I agree with that! They were very funny about warranty expiration in the early days, probably because they had so many field failures.  I bought four DL-11 equivalents from them once, all laden with ECO wires.  When I called to say I could only get one of them working, they were  surprised that I got that many! Years later a ham radio buddy who was at Plessey at the time remembers those days and the technician who was honest! I would say it is warranty expiration! cheers, Nigel On 2024-03-25 20:24, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > So, sorting thru stuff I came across this white elephant again. > I never found anything to positively identify it but I always > assumed it was some kind of buss extender.  One board is fully > populated with chips and the other connected together with a > ribbon cable is totally passive. > > But this time I found the funniest thing about it.  The passive > end has a sticker on it with an expiration date.  I have to admit > I have never found an expiration date on any of my PDP or VAX > hardware before.  :-) > > bill -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 --===============1069000087869824776==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Tue Mar 26 01:51:57 2024 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 21:51:37 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737FCBD426D7D6B05A10F8AED352=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8712692677171048825==" --===============8712692677171048825== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry > about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't > been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran > at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since > then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) > But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with > an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect > does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read > them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. > Why is there no way to read them? If you have a PC with a SCSI card you can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whatever means. -Henry --===============8712692677171048825==-- From rachael@telefisk.org Tue Mar 26 12:27:29 2024 From: Jacob Dahl Pind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 13:27:37 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2787573815739403667==" --===============2787573815739403667== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 26/03/2024 01.28, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > ...It was a thought... Was good a thought, could easily have been send to wrong device. Sorry if I came over rude. -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 --===============2787573815739403667==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Mar 26 12:31:55 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:31:38 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8145962487997034821==" --===============8145962487997034821== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jacob Totally did not take your comment negatively. All good. Bill On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:27 AM Jacob Dahl Pind via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 26/03/2024 01.28, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > ...It was a thought... > > Was good a thought, could easily have been send to wrong device. Sorry > if I came over rude. > > -- > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 > > --===============8145962487997034821==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Tue Mar 26 12:57:55 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:57:44 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1176352522096757350==" --===============1176352522096757350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote: > On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > > wrote: > > > Oops.  I guess the fingers work as good as the memory.  Sorry > about that.  I've got about 20 of them.  I know they haven't > been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran > at the University.  Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since > then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space.  :-) > But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with > an Adaptec SCSI in it.  It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect > does could use a disk that big.  Too bad there's no way to read > them.  Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. > > > Why is there no way to read them?  If you have a PC with a SCSI card you > can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a > dd (or ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed > by whatever means. > These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to the VAX cluster. There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to extract usable information. bill --===============1176352522096757350==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Mar 26 13:15:42 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 09:15:32 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSJ0PR17MB57364F12C417098D5E10BF1EED352=40SJ0PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5736=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4260712667931692037==" --===============4260712667931692037== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: >> Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry >> about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't >> been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran >> at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since >> then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) >> But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with >> an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect >> does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read >> them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. >> Why is there no way to read them? If you have a PC with a SCSI card you c= an easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or = ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whatever= means. >=20 >=20 > These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to > the VAX cluster. There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to > extract usable information. >=20 > bill Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete one= ? If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout, w= hich is likely to be doable. paul --===============4260712667931692037==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Tue Mar 26 14:08:21 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 10:08:06 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9162931193305833089==" --===============9162931193305833089== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/26/2024 9:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> >> On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote: >>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: >>> Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry >>> about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't >>> been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran >>> at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since >>> then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) >>> But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with >>> an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect >>> does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read >>> them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. >>> Why is there no way to read them? If you have a PC with a SCSI card you = can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or= ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whateve= r means. >> >> >> These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to >> the VAX cluster. There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to >> extract usable information. >> >> bill >=20 > Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete o= ne? =20 Don't know, but doubt it. Some of the disks have probably been used for other purposes since the VAXen went away more than 20 years ago. > If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout,=20 > which is likely to be doable. While possible, I think hardly likely. I don't even remember what the appliance was. Something DECish. bill --===============9162931193305833089==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Mar 26 16:48:29 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:48:21 -0400 Message-ID: <77C12EFB-011E-427F-8444-B158B689F18D@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737AAC62DF8C2517D0072DAED352=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6376128402397705608==" --===============6376128402397705608== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 26, 2024, at 10:08 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 3/26/2024 9:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote: >>> On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >>> ... >> Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete = one? =20 >=20 > Don't know, but doubt it. Some of the disks have probably been used > for other purposes since the VAXen went away more than 20 years ago. >=20 >> If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout, = which is likely to be doable. >=20 > While possible, I think hardly likely. I don't even remember what the > appliance was. Something DECish. Chances are those were classic RAID systems, with fixed layouts across much o= f the RAID set (not "mapped RAID") exposing what looks like a regular device = LUN (no page based virtualization). If so, there is only a limited set of po= ssibilities, basically a question of stripe sizes, drive count, and drive ord= er. Given a guess (or better) of what's on it, such as what file system type= , the right layout would be clear from the fact that it produces valid conten= t. It would be a pain to try this with modern complex SAN devices, but with thos= e of 30+ years ago it's not quite so bad. paul --===============6376128402397705608==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Tue Mar 26 17:00:39 2024 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Someone with ExpressPCB: can you convert these to Gerbers? Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 10:00:28 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3520580232695845455==" --===============3520580232695845455== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying to build some prototype Tomy Tutor cartridges of my own but I'm all thumbs in KiCad, and while prefab ones exist that I can just add an EPROM to, they're in ExpressPCB and PCBWay wants Gerbers. This Mac won't run ExpressPCB, or at least not in a way that wouldn't involve a significant expenditure. Is someone out there with a copy of ExpressPCB willing to convert these to Gerbers I can upload? They're quite small so it should be a simple task. If s= o, please contact me off-list with many thanks! --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- E pluribus Unix ----------------------------------------------------------= -- --===============3520580232695845455==-- From shumaker@att.net Tue Mar 26 18:59:24 2024 From: steve shumaker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 11:59:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1769b68d-9dfe-48ab-a4b7-4cc2cba7622a@att.net> In-Reply-To: <77C12EFB-011E-427F-8444-B158B689F18D@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6859358241700831023==" --===============6859358241700831023== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and,=C2=A0 if you inquire in the right places, there is law enforcement=20 focused forensic analysis software specifically designed to acquire RAID=20 volumes and rebuild the data. Steve On 3/26/24 9:48 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Mar 26, 2024, at 10:08 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 3/26/2024 9:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote: >>>> On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >>>> ... >>> Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete= one? >> Don't know, but doubt it. Some of the disks have probably been used >> for other purposes since the VAXen went away more than 20 years ago. >> >>> If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout, = which is likely to be doable. >> While possible, I think hardly likely. I don't even remember what the >> appliance was. Something DECish. > Chances are those were classic RAID systems, with fixed layouts across much= of the RAID set (not "mapped RAID") exposing what looks like a regular devic= e LUN (no page based virtualization). If so, there is only a limited set of = possibilities, basically a question of stripe sizes, drive count, and drive o= rder. Given a guess (or better) of what's on it, such as what file system ty= pe, the right layout would be clear from the fact that it produces valid cont= ent. > > It would be a pain to try this with modern complex SAN devices, but with th= ose of 30+ years ago it's not quite so bad. > > paul > --===============6859358241700831023==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Mar 26 19:22:56 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:22:46 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1769b68d-9dfe-48ab-a4b7-4cc2cba7622a@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7895204158685446060==" --===============7895204158685446060== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 26, 2024, at 2:59 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: >=20 > and, if you inquire in the right places, there is law enforcement focused = forensic analysis software specifically designed to acquire RAID volumes and = rebuild the data. >=20 > Steve Yes, though from the one time I encountered that use case I have my doubts ab= out it. I was asked to help with such a forensic analysis case, and the pers= on I worked with started by asking me about the "BIOS settings" on our SAN ar= ray, and whether the setting was "left to right" or "right to left". For som= e reason, that person could not cope with answers like "we don't have a BIOS"= and "neither left-to-right nor right-to-left". Once I hit that road block I= decided not even to bother mentioning that our SAN device included page base= d virtualization. Never did hear anything further. :-) paul --===============7895204158685446060==-- From shumaker@att.net Wed Mar 27 01:29:48 2024 From: steve shumaker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 18:29:36 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7284572901553678350==" --===============7284572901553678350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep.=C2=A0=C2=A0 That's been a problem for decades although it's slowly impro= ving=20 as even the smaller departments realize it and fund serious training.=C2=A0=20 Meantime, yes, one needs to approach getting involved with those folks=20 with some degree of caution. Steve Special Agent, (ret) On 3/26/24 12:22 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Mar 26, 2024, at 2:59 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: >> >> and, if you inquire in the right places, there is law enforcement focused= forensic analysis software specifically designed to acquire RAID volumes and= rebuild the data. >> >> Steve > Yes, though from the one time I encountered that use case I have my doubts = about it. I was asked to help with such a forensic analysis case, and the pe= rson I worked with started by asking me about the "BIOS settings" on our SAN = array, and whether the setting was "left to right" or "right to left". For s= ome reason, that person could not cope with answers like "we don't have a BIO= S" and "neither left-to-right nor right-to-left". Once I hit that road block= I decided not even to bother mentioning that our SAN device included page ba= sed virtualization. Never did hear anything further. :-) > > paul > --===============7284572901553678350==-- From sqrfolkdnc@comcast.net Wed Mar 27 01:47:44 2024 From: CAREY SCHUG To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 20:47:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1834347595.1200947.1711504056292@connect.xfinity.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5613712289730470452==" --===============5613712289730470452== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if you ever get a request to forense a raid for Solaris, take whatever $$ the= y offer you. just plug 'em in anywhere, diff controllers, different sequence= , no matter. they have fingerprints, the os will figure out and mount the ra= id, including recovery mode if one is missing. 
--Carey
> On 03/26/2024 8:29 PM CDT steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =20 > Yep.=C2=A0=C2=A0 That's been a problem for decades although it's slowly imp= roving=20 > as even the smaller departments realize it and fund serious training.=C2=A0= =20 > Meantime, yes, one needs to approach getting involved with those folks=20 > with some degree of caution. >=20 > Steve > Special Agent, (ret) >=20 > On 3/26/24 12:22 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > >> On Mar 26, 2024, at 2:59 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: > >> > >> and, if you inquire in the right places, there is law enforcement focus= ed forensic analysis software specifically designed to acquire RAID volumes a= nd rebuild the data. > >> > >> Steve > > Yes, though from the one time I encountered that use case I have my doubt= s about it. I was asked to help with such a forensic analysis case, and the = person I worked with started by asking me about the "BIOS settings" on our SA= N array, and whether the setting was "left to right" or "right to left". For= some reason, that person could not cope with answers like "we don't have a B= IOS" and "neither left-to-right nor right-to-left". Once I hit that road blo= ck I decided not even to bother mentioning that our SAN device included page = based virtualization. Never did hear anything further. :-) > > > > paul > > --===============5613712289730470452==-- From lproven@gmail.com Wed Mar 27 19:20:25 2024 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2024 19:20:08 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2355712499900645857==" --===============2355712499900645857== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 at 14:50, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > > Reminds of something that happened at a previous job, where I was part > of the small Unix team. We had bought an expensive pile of HP-UX related > kit from HP and apparently also some HP consultant time for training > on said kit. First day of training, HP consultant shows up in usual > full on business attire. Starts talking about stuff (e.g. SAN management > and and clustering related things) in a very ... "HP business" kind of > lingo, which rubbed us rather the wrong way. So I interrupt him, pointing > out: a) we already understand Unix TYVM and are mostly interested in the > HP-UX specific details and b) drop the business lingo and start talking > plain text, we're Unix admins, not MBAs. With a heavy unsaid implication > of "You are wearing a suit while explaining tech, that makes it hard to > take you seriously". > > So, step 1) said HP consultant _did_ drop the "HP business" lingo and > started talking plain Unix. And step 2) beginning the next day, he always > showed up at our site in shirt and jeans and was taken seriously now ;-) > > That was ... sometime in the early 2000. Very nice story. :-) In about 1989 my company sent me to London for a 3 day training course on 3Com 3+Open, 3Com's fancy new NOS based on OS/2 1.0. The airline lost my luggage. I turned up on day 1 in a not-too-fresh T-shirt and jeans. Everyone else was in a suit. I explained: no suitcase. Day 2, no suitcase. T shirt was now "fragrant". Some other students on the course had adopted casual wear. Day 3: my luggage arrives! I turn up in a fresh clean suit. Everyone else, tutor included, is in jeans and tees. :-D My company did _not_ adopt 3+Open or OS/2. On the basis of my experience we moved to Novell instead. At the time, a good choice, I still think today. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============2355712499900645857==-- From lproven@gmail.com Wed Mar 27 19:22:16 2024 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2024 19:22:00 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3301235842953308434==" --===============3301235842953308434== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 at 22:46, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > > sync;sync;sync > power off > > I remember it well. In my 1st journalist job, at PC Pro Magazine in 1995, I used that to turn off a review SPARC portable. My new boss was delighted and apparently, unbidden, I thereby proved my xNix credentials. :-) Good thing, really... My vi skills were minimal and they still are today. Didn't like it then, like it less now. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============3301235842953308434==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Wed Mar 27 19:34:54 2024 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC Processor Books Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2024 15:34:35 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4310220677670111352==" --===============4310220677670111352== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 15:20 Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 at 14:50, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Reminds of something that happened at a previous job, where I was part > > of the small Unix team. We had bought an expensive pile of HP-UX related > > kit from HP and apparently also some HP consultant time for training > > on said kit. First day of training, HP consultant shows up in usual > > full on business attire. Starts talking about stuff (e.g. SAN management > > and and clustering related things) in a very ... "HP business" kind of > > lingo, which rubbed us rather the wrong way. So I interrupt him, pointing > > out: a) we already understand Unix TYVM and are mostly interested in the > > HP-UX specific details and b) drop the business lingo and start talking > > plain text, we're Unix admins, not MBAs. With a heavy unsaid implication > > of "You are wearing a suit while explaining tech, that makes it hard to > > take you seriously". > > > > So, step 1) said HP consultant _did_ drop the "HP business" lingo and > > started talking plain Unix. And step 2) beginning the next day, he always > > showed up at our site in shirt and jeans and was taken seriously now ;-) > > > > That was ... sometime in the early 2000. > > Very nice story. :-) > > In about 1989 my company sent me to London for a 3 day training course > on 3Com 3+Open, 3Com's fancy new NOS based on OS/2 1.0. > > The airline lost my luggage. I turned up on day 1 in a not-too-fresh > T-shirt and jeans. Everyone else was in a suit. I explained: no > suitcase. > > Day 2, no suitcase. T shirt was now "fragrant". Some other students on > the course had adopted casual wear. > > Day 3: my luggage arrives! I turn up in a fresh clean suit. Everyone > else, tutor included, is in jeans and tees. :-D > > My company did _not_ adopt 3+Open or OS/2. On the basis of my > experience we moved to Novell instead. At the time, a good choice, I > still think today. > If your company's primary aim was to have a reliable file server with fine-grained permissions, I'd say you made a fair choice. At a SIGUCCS conference once in my early career I showed up in ripped blue jeans and a T-shirt for my paper presentation. My employer was aghast but after the talk I was recruited by another university ;-) -Henry > --===============4310220677670111352==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Wed Mar 27 19:47:59 2024 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] WTB: Cromemco System Zero Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2024 19:46:44 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4513589217797438862==" --===============4513589217797438862== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I'm looking for a Cromemco System Zero, doesn't matter if it's empty or not. = Please contact me off-list if you have one to sell/trade or know of one! Thanks, Jonathan --===============4513589217797438862==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Thu Mar 28 06:51:39 2024 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 01:51:25 -0500 Message-ID: <36d4a928-9214-4bd4-a771-6a04a6e422ea@jwsss.com> In-Reply-To: <1834347595.1200947.1711504056292@connect.xfinity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3325388242970816431==" --===============3325388242970816431== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/26/24 20:47, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > if you ever get a request to forense a raid for Solaris, take whatever > $$ they offer you. just plug 'em in anywhere, diff controllers, > different sequence, no matter. they have fingerprints, the os will > figure out and mount the raid, including recovery mode if one is > missing. I did a recovery on a ReadyNAS device created on the original Netgear devices which used the mini sparc linux.  unfortunately the raid array software they used there had 4k setup, and at the time the Linux on i86 was all 512 byte block sized. though the original reason i favored ReadyNAS was because they used Linux instead of some proprietary raid chip which might or might not be supported, the 4k vs 512 byte took some doing. it didn't "just work" at all. And Netgear discontinued the Sparc version in favor of x86 and the problem subsequently went away. The problem was by the way that the recovery scan stalled on real small physical defect block areas.  I had to go in and manually map out the files with the errors, which were luckily not ones I required as had other copies, but Netgear didn't fix the problem on the original boxes. They could recover if you could replace an entire disk, but when there was a small defect, nope. thanks Jim BTW the recovery at the time required building a driver I found and adding it to the kernel.  Not a fun or quick task. --===============3325388242970816431==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Thu Mar 28 15:07:04 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: WTB: Cromemco System Zero Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:06:47 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3COxzIf88B8PprrJNCpiTb=5FyoC5CWrdIeQluznSGoqEsDrngyt?= =?utf-8?q?=5FfcF5RrIROY7oE1cyDvPT5P4G4X92wEQXVpBkfi1wxFytwWizwWbSbXJrVo=3D?= =?utf-8?q?=40glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3696125085622530303==" --===============3696125085622530303== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 12:48 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > All, > > I'm looking for a Cromemco System Zero, doesn't matter if it's empty or > not. Please contact me off-list if you have one to sell/trade or know of > one! > > Thanks, > Jonathan > I had no idea they made a System Zero. I have a System One FWIW. Sellam > --===============3696125085622530303==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 28 16:37:34 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 12:37:22 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9015608806150410287==" --===============9015608806150410287== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from the University in the Netherlands? Searching the web finds only the current version which runs on X86. I am looking for the original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to me) the VAX. Remember when they said now that we had the web nothing would ever be lost again? :-( bill --===============9015608806150410287==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Thu Mar 28 16:48:15 2024 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 17:47:57 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57374A41609F6A0CC0935651ED3B2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8816962364167760162==" --===============8816962364167760162== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:37 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone > has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from > the University in the Netherlands? Searching the web finds only > the current version which runs on X86. I am looking for the > original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to > me) the VAX. > https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba has the sun binaries but not the vax/mips binaries. Warner Remember when they said now that we had the web nothing would > ever be lost again? :-( > > bill > --===============8816962364167760162==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 28 16:57:07 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 12:56:54 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3733728653271087281==" --===============3733728653271087281== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/28/2024 12:47 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:37 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > > wrote: > > > I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone > has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from > the University in the Netherlands?  Searching the web finds only > the current version which runs on X86.  I am looking for the > original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to > me) the VAX. > > > https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba >  has the sun binaries but > not the vax/mips binaries. > That's the current version. I am surprised they have Sun but I also expect it is not the Suns from the original which were Sun 3 and Sparc pizza boxes. We used the Sparc version at the University of Scranton. Some Grad students did research and their thesis on Amoeba. We had a whole lab dedicated to it and it was really cool. I have a nice stack of Vaxstation 3100's sitting around and now that you can no longer get hobbyist licenses for VMS I thought it might be fun to create an Amoeba Cluster. If any like minded people popped up it might be fun to try and build a really large and widely separated cluster just to see if it would have been possible. bill --===============3733728653271087281==-- From mazzini_alessandro@hotmail.com Thu Mar 28 17:02:17 2024 From: Alessandro Mazzini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 17:02:10 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57370E1481102BDB4DFD7DB6ED3B2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0265949854448615079==" --===============0265949854448615079== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for= vms ?? -----Original Message----- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk =20 Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 5:57 PM To: Warner Losh ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topi= c Posts Cc: Bill Gunshannon Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS On 3/28/2024 12:47 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:37=E2=80=AFPM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk=20 > > wrote: >=20 >=20 > I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone > has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from > the University in the Netherlands?=C2=A0 Searching the web finds only > the current version which runs on X86.=C2=A0 I am looking for the > original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to > me) the VAX. >=20 >=20 > https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba > =C2=A0has the sun binaries but = > not the vax/mips binaries. >=20 That's the current version. I am surprised they have Sun but I also expect it is not the Suns from the original which were Sun 3 and Sparc pizza boxes. We used the Sparc version at the University of Scranton. Some Grad students did research and their thesis on Amoeba. We had a whole lab dedicated to it and it was really cool. I have a nice stack of Vaxstation 3100's sitting around and now that you can no longer get hobbyist licenses for VMS I thought it might be fun to create an Amoeba Cluster. If any like minded people popped up it might be fun to try and build a really large and widely separated cluster just to see if it would have been possible. bill --===============0265949854448615079==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Thu Mar 28 17:06:53 2024 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: WTB: Cromemco System Zero Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:57:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3NK3e-yLWhf5UI05pOLA5UKDFl5GOeV8lCqLA_VxXXRuBMdtga5uiCSFpGp1N11e1UivMDQHsu5BlZjqpemksT39ABk1qsCRuXFjxeZALaU=@glitchwrks.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1772444367143250696==" --===============1772444367143250696== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I had no idea they made a System Zero. I have a System One FWIW. Apparently a lot of folks, even those actively hacking on S-100 stuff, don't = know about the System Zero! I've had a number of folks say as much. It's defi= nitely a real product, I had a purchase lined up for one a few years ago, but= the seller stopped responding to emails (I suspect someone else came in and = bought everything). That seller had worked on integrating Cromemco hardware f= or industrial control usage, and had used a bunch of the System Zero boxes in= his time for the purpose. The SCC with 3K Control BASIC plus whatever additi= onal memory or I/O made for a compact little control box with industrial stre= ngth design, apparently. Thanks, Jonathan --===============1772444367143250696==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Thu Mar 28 17:25:18 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 13:25:11 -0400 Message-ID: <84EBBBE3-9A11-4CBB-844D-38C827C5CD30@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3COS6P279MB0891E6CF884FC58B6C8C4A2FEC3B2=40OS6P279MB?= =?utf-8?q?0891=2ENORP279=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8609098240794333481==" --===============8609098240794333481== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses f= or vms ?? You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. paul --===============8609098240794333481==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Thu Mar 28 17:40:28 2024 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: WTB: Cromemco System Zero Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 13:40:09 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3C3NK3e-yLWhf5UI05pOLA5UKDFl5GOeV8lCqLA=5FVxXXRuBMdt?= =?utf-8?q?ga5uiCSFpGp1N11e1UivMDQHsu5BlZjqpemksT39ABk1qsCRuXFjxeZALaU=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2311359156718232797==" --===============2311359156718232797== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit While we're on the subject, a lot of folks (including the S100 site) confuse Cromemco's System 1 (CS-1) with their Z-1; the Z-1 was the rebadged IMSAI box while the CS-1 and CS-1H System Ones were Cromemco designs. On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 1:06 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I had no idea they made a System Zero. I have a System One FWIW. > > Apparently a lot of folks, even those actively hacking on S-100 stuff, > don't know about the System Zero! I've had a number of folks say as much. > It's definitely a real product, I had a purchase lined up for one a few > years ago, but the seller stopped responding to emails (I suspect someone > else came in and bought everything). That seller had worked on integrating > Cromemco hardware for industrial control usage, and had used a bunch of the > System Zero boxes in his time for the purpose. The SCC with 3K Control > BASIC plus whatever additional memory or I/O made for a compact little > control box with industrial strength design, apparently. > > Thanks, > Jonathan > --===============2311359156718232797==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 28 17:47:14 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 13:47:03 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <04956361-b2c1-4863-9266-7b7d9e73f562@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4278256790303304254==" --===============4278256790303304254== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: >> >> Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses = for vms ?? >=20 > You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. >=20 As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. bill --===============4278256790303304254==-- From gavin@learn.bio Thu Mar 28 18:20:20 2024 From: Gavin Scott To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 13:20:04 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737F63325FFE6A18876EE7DED3B2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8572023106874835121==" --===============8572023106874835121== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 12:47 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. > As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. I believe that's all you can get now and going forward. They're also going to distribute it in the future as a .vmdk disk image that's ready to activate and run. No more install media, just the pre-built VM image to play with, x86 only. --===============8572023106874835121==-- From merlyn@geeks.org Thu Mar 28 19:08:24 2024 From: Doug McIntyre To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 14:08:15 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB5737F63325FFE6A18876EE7DED3B2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4843199234780852878==" --===============4843199234780852878== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 01:47:03PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > > On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: > > >=20 > > > Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licens= es for vms ?? > >=20 > > You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. > >=20 >=20 > As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. The newsletter I received said that they are dropping Alpha/Integrity OpenVMS licensing, but x86 licensing will continue. (VAX licenses have been gone for awhile, from before VSI??). "We will continue to offer community licenses for OpenVMS on x86. You can app= ly here" https://vmssoftware.com/products/licenses/ And also "We are also launching the OpenVMS Ambassador program. As an OpenVMS Ambassad= or, you can get a custom OpenVMS license for Alpha, Integrity or x86 free of = charge. Read more about the OpenVMS Ambassador program and apply here" https://share.hsforms.com/131UO5x_iSEGxlYs8pQTYSQdi37l --===============4843199234780852878==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Mar 28 19:21:30 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:21:20 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6336052466443855447==" --===============6336052466443855447== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/28/2024 3:08 PM, Doug McIntyre via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 01:47:03PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: >>>> >>>> Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist license= s for vms ?? >>> >>> You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. >>> >> >> As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. >=20 >=20 > The newsletter I received said that they are dropping Alpha/Integrity > OpenVMS licensing, but x86 licensing will continue. (VAX licenses have > been gone for awhile, from before VSI??). >=20 > "We will continue to offer community licenses for OpenVMS on x86. You can a= pply here" > https://vmssoftware.com/products/licenses/ >=20 A second letter the same day said that the Community License was done. X86 will be a pre-configured VM, good for one year at which time it will be replaced with a new VM. Most people see that as meaning if you use it every year you will have to re-do anything you did to the image that was not part of the original. > And also >=20 > "We are also launching the OpenVMS Ambassador program. As an OpenVMS Ambass= ador, you can get a custom OpenVMS license for Alpha, Integrity or x86 free o= f charge. Read more about the OpenVMS Ambassador program and apply here" > https://share.hsforms.com/131UO5x_iSEGxlYs8pQTYSQdi37l >=20 Read the requirements. Most Hobbyists would not qualify. I certainly wouldn't. I have been a VMS User for about 44 years and an systems administrator for about 30 years. At this point, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I suspect it is an oncoming train. bill --===============6336052466443855447==-- From als@thangorodrim.ch Thu Mar 28 23:35:44 2024 From: Alexander Schreiber To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3COS6P279MB0891E6CF884FC58B6C8C4A2FEC3B2=40OS6P279MB?= =?utf-8?q?0891=2ENORP279=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2721745165118036308==" --===============2721745165118036308== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 05:02:10PM +0000, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: > Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses f= or vms ?? Not for OpenVMS/VAX, that stopped more than a year ago. IIRC you _can_ get something like[1] it for OpenVMS/amd64 from VMS Software. The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing newer. Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it. Kind regards, Alex. [0] Personal opinion. Worth every cent you paid for it. I'm not a lawyer and I never played one on TV. Void were prohibited. Caveat emptor. [1] Last time I checked, there was a time limited "educational purposes" virtual machine image one could download and run with the appropriate hypervisor software. --=20 "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison --===============2721745165118036308==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Thu Mar 28 23:50:12 2024 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:50:06 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSA1PR17MB57374A41609F6A0CC0935651ED3B2=40SA1PR17MB?= =?utf-8?q?5737=2Enamprd17=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1100243018274266233==" --===============1100243018274266233== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Remember when they said now that we had the web nothing would > ever be lost again? :-( sho' nuff, the memory, attribution, and written forms of that concept are lost. "The internet is written in sand." For example, remember Howard Fullmer? One of Morrow's chief engineers, "Parasitic Engineering", and along with Morrow was an early proponent of standardizing S100. I once saw (in MicroTimes? that he had died, but can not find any confimation that disambiguates WHICH Howard Fullmer. OTOH, spammer mailing lists, and leaked personal and trade secrets seem to last forever. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============1100243018274266233==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Mar 29 00:26:09 2024 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 20:26:01 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <61b3889f-0e97-47c1-8e7a-a43b7bef9b3b@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8130997059036920293==" --===============8130997059036920293== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/28/2024 7:29 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 05:02:10PM +0000, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wro= te: >> Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses = for vms ?? >=20 > Not for OpenVMS/VAX, that stopped more than a year ago. IIRC you _can_ > get something like[1] it for OpenVMS/amd64 from VMS Software. >=20 > The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way > before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing > newer. >=20 > Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it. >=20 > Kind regards, > Alex. >=20 > [0] Personal opinion. Worth every cent you paid for it. I'm not a lawyer > and I never played one on TV. Void were prohibited. Caveat emptor. > [1] Last time I checked, there was a time limited "educational purposes" > virtual machine image one could download and run with the appropriate > hypervisor software. ^^^^^^ That is going away, too. bill --===============8130997059036920293==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 29 01:44:51 2024 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:44:35 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4679825134860133639==" --===============4679825134860133639== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2024-03-28 5:50 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > OTOH, spammer mailing lists, and leaked personal and trade secrets seem > to last forever. You forgot Mickey Mouse. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred             cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============4679825134860133639==-- From christopher1400@gmail.com Fri Mar 29 01:48:16 2024 From: Christopher Satterfield To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 18:47:46 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3COS6P279MB0891E6CF884FC58B6C8C4A2FEC3B2=40OS6P279MB?= =?utf-8?q?0891=2ENORP279=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5786943370585115511==" --===============5786943370585115511== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 10:02 AM Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses > for vms ?? > The current owners have barely been responding to responses since taking over. I tried twice for Itanium, but it's not a huge deal because tere's a certain tool that gen's paks for VMS that's been around for a good 25 or so years :) . If anyone actually cared about that, I'd imagine it'd be well off the internet by now but it still persists. --===============5786943370585115511==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Fri Mar 29 02:27:07 2024 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:26:57 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2874597858570985079==" --===============2874597858570985079== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> OTOH, spammer mailing lists, and leaked personal and trade secrets >> seem to last forever. On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, ben via cctalk wrote: > You forgot Mickey Mouse. Is the mouse's immortality due to his army of intellectual property lawyers? --===============2874597858570985079==-- From doug@doughq.com Fri Mar 29 04:14:04 2024 From: Doug Jackson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:04:28 +1100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8716965973987343916==" --===============8716965973987343916== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ans sway they have in congress to get laws specifically modified for their benefit... On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, 1:27=E2=80=AFpm Fred Cisin via cctalk, wrote: > >> OTOH, spammer mailing lists, and leaked personal and trade secrets > >> seem to last forever. > > On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, ben via cctalk wrote: > > You forgot Mickey Mouse. > > Is the mouse's immortality due to his army of intellectual property > lawyers? > > > --===============8716965973987343916==-- From kantexplain@protonmail.com Fri Mar 29 05:47:00 2024 From: Just Kant To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] need a 5150 motherboard Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:46:47 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7359302105537840797==" --===============7359302105537840797== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The board itself, including the traces, has to be in good shape. Don' t care = about it's functionality, or even if chips are missing. An actual IBM product= , regardless of revision. Might consider an entire 5150 box. NJ. Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email. --===============7359302105537840797==-- From mazzini_alessandro@hotmail.com Fri Mar 29 10:15:21 2024 From: Alessandro Mazzini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:15:14 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2287012813421452389==" --===============2287012813421452389== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep, I'm well aware of that tool. Same time I got totally surprised by the li= censing move -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Satterfield via cctalk =20 Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 2:48 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Christopher Satterfield Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 10:02=E2=80=AFAM Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk < ccta= lk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist=20 > licenses for vms ?? > The current owners have barely been responding to responses since taking over= . I tried twice for Itanium, but it's not a huge deal because tere's a certai= n tool that gen's paks for VMS that's been around for a good 25 or so years := ) . If anyone actually cared about that, I'd imagine it'd be well off the int= ernet by now but it still persists. --===============2287012813421452389==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Mar 29 13:18:56 2024 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 09:18:48 -0400 Message-ID: <797A44AD-2B12-4610-BFF3-092C72B2EE45@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5558780213065848306==" --===============5558780213065848306== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 28, 2024, at 9:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 2024-03-28 5:50 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >=20 >> OTOH, spammer mailing lists, and leaked personal and trade secrets seem to= last forever. >=20 > You forgot Mickey Mouse. Not any more; Steamboat Willy is in the public domain now. paul --===============5558780213065848306==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Fri Mar 29 16:00:29 2024 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:59:56 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7019675950938316378==" --===============7019675950938316378== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, March 28th, 2024 at 19:26, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > You forgot Mickey Mouse. >=20 > Is the mouse's immortality due to his army of intellectual property > lawyers? There's a joke to be made here about Walt Disney being in cryonic suspension[= 0] and Mickey Mouse is his avatar feeding off of his life force, but I don't have en= ough coffee in me yet to attempt to be funny. [0] Yes, I know it didn't actually happen. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean. --===============7019675950938316378==-- From w9gb@icloud.com Fri Mar 29 18:59:08 2024 From: Gregory Beat To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 13:51:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5676043154600058944==" --===============5676043154600058944== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MTM Scientific (Clinton, MI) offered modern redrawn IBM PC 5150 base board and a Full Kit, at one time. https://www.mtmscientific.com/pc-retro.html While he is no longer selling separate blank 5150 boards, you could inquire about Gerbers. greg w9gb --===============5676043154600058944==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Fri Mar 29 19:03:33 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:03:16 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4870659557832623529==" --===============4870659557832623529== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. b On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 2:59 PM Gregory Beat via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > MTM Scientific (Clinton, MI) offered modern redrawn IBM PC 5150 base board > and a Full Kit, at one time. > https://www.mtmscientific.com/pc-retro.html > > While he is no longer selling separate blank 5150 boards, > you could inquire about Gerbers. > > greg > w9gb --===============4870659557832623529==-- From kantexplain@protonmail.com Fri Mar 29 20:05:10 2024 From: Just Kant To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 20:04:52 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8372131610667058106==" --===============8372131610667058106== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Friday, March 29th, 2024 at 3:03 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > b --===============8372131610667058106==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Fri Mar 29 20:11:27 2024 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 16:11:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CqnfmO=5F296S6f9hb=5FwDChuncqBLx2N4gVhPm4tDG62TohL7?= =?utf-8?q?PxE3kyLLi-KGF90Qn4F1qIjDg9zX6isIYVyVHgohkRHHQfwzcnS3zKK8LHe0s=3D?= =?utf-8?q?=40protonmail=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7023251735923511257==" --===============7023251735923511257== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable pick up only, sorry b On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 4:05=E2=80=AFPM Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > On Friday, March 29th, 2024 at 3:03 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > > b > > --===============7023251735923511257==-- From kantexplain@protonmail.com Fri Mar 29 23:07:55 2024 From: Just Kant To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] stack of Tab books for sale Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 23:07:34 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7618963071578537381==" --===============7618963071578537381== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Electronics, robotics, lasers. 10 in all. Overall comdition 6 or so out of 10= . 50$ + shipping. NJ. --===============7618963071578537381==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Fri Mar 29 23:09:21 2024 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: stack of Tab books for sale Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 16:09:05 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CMfFp-4bEuYLPBrUWVbwk-RCYkyo-F-an3V2YUUCFAoC0UYrf8R?= =?utf-8?q?hOhpY2slV9BCOuzwrx4QeNyp24iRnAlkTfLZAaz1gMAbjqC73Z00R1KPk=3D=40pr?= =?utf-8?q?otonmail=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5281194930300534760==" --===============5281194930300534760== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 4:07 PM Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > Electronics, robotics, lasers. 10 in all. Overall comdition 6 or so out of > 10. 50$ + shipping. NJ. You really should post the titles. It's only ten. Sellam --===============5281194930300534760==-- From marvin@west.net Sat Mar 30 20:10:55 2024 From: Marvin Johnston To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 13:04:09 -0700 Message-ID: <81cb4df1-1e3a-26f5-1ba3-f27364e37b06@west.net> In-Reply-To: <171181800775.2847341.13213694541190861698@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8746060131592544485==" --===============8746060131592544485== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just out of curiosity, what are you using this board for? The IBM 5150 uses at least three different mother boards, 16K, 256k, and I *think* 512K soldered in RAM. Each is expandable to 640K with 3rd sourced RAM boards. I should have (somewhere) at least one of each. I also have several 5150 complete units including keyboard (not so sure about the monitors.) Marvin > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 20:04:52 +0000 > From: Just Kant > Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: GF90Qn4F1qIjDg9zX6isIYVyVHgohkRHHQfwzcnS3zKK8LHe0s=@protonmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > b > --===============8746060131592544485==-- From kantexplain@protonmail.com Sat Mar 30 20:23:42 2024 From: Just Kant To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 20:23:28 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <81cb4df1-1e3a-26f5-1ba3-f27364e37b06@west.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9040208745817012538==" --===============9040208745817012538== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not at liberty at this time to disclose what nefarious purpose I have in = mind. Are you selling? It depends on where you're located. But say if I was purchas= ing 3 boards (I personally have never heard of a 512k 5150 board), I may be w= illing to pay shipping from ... wherever. Please respond offlist if you are w= illing to sell.=20 Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Saturday, March 30th, 2024 at 4:04 PM, Marvin Johnston via cctalk wrote: > Just out of curiosity, what are you using this board for? The IBM 5150 > uses at least three different mother boards, 16K, 256k, and I think > 512K soldered in RAM. Each is expandable to 640K with 3rd sourced RAM > boards. >=20 > I should have (somewhere) at least one of each. I also have several 5150 > complete units including keyboard (not so sure about the monitors.) >=20 > Marvin >=20 > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 20:04:52 +0000 > > From: Just Kant kantexplain(a)protonmail.com > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > Message-ID: > GF90Qn4F1qIjDg9zX6isIYVyVHgohkRHHQfwzcnS3zKK8LHe0s=3D@protonmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 > >=20 > > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > >=20 > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > >=20 > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > > b --===============9040208745817012538==-- From kantexplain@protonmail.com Sat Mar 30 20:37:16 2024 From: Just Kant To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 20:37:02 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4434415524157665418==" --===============4434415524157665418== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clearly all or virtually all chineseum, correct? That being the case, um, what type.of.quality can be expected? Some are fairl= y cheap. I guess thenworld isn't to be expected. --===============4434415524157665418==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Sat Mar 30 20:53:23 2024 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 20:53:05 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CaTLk6-d=5FfDM6x4A1JjA6A11QR2VHh2myuAM019ukIkmvIrkO?= =?utf-8?q?A7ycsuc9hhWyhW23Sw99TC0n7H119q8D78ob1P8srt133bHmyGgT9bfmI4E=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?protonmail=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5952652042707978385==" --===============5952652042707978385== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Saturday, March 30th, 2024 at 13:37, Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > Clearly all or virtually all chineseum, correct? > That being the case, um, what type.of.quality can be expected? Some are fai= rly cheap. I > guess thenworld isn't to be expected. I've only bought a few in the last couple of years that fit the profile - the= y've been decently solid. I have the ICs used socketed just in case, but I haven't had= any flatline on me so far. Call it five positive datapoints out of however many. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean. --===============5952652042707978385==-- From wrcooke@wrcooke.net Sat Mar 30 22:27:31 2024 From: wrcooke@wrcooke.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 17:27:26 -0500 Message-ID: <270590209.6342338.1711837646378@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CaTLk6-d=5FfDM6x4A1JjA6A11QR2VHh2myuAM019ukIkmvIrkO?= =?utf-8?q?A7ycsuc9hhWyhW23Sw99TC0n7H119q8D78ob1P8srt133bHmyGgT9bfmI4E=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?protonmail=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5646018221050963517==" --===============5646018221050963517== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 03/30/2024 3:37 PM CDT Just Kant via cctalk wr= ote: > > > Clearly all or virtually all chineseum, correct? > > That being the case, um, what type.of.quality can be expected? Some are fai= rly cheap. I guess thenworld isn't to be expected. I'm not clear on whether you mean some specific chips or in general, but here= is my experience. For things that are in current production or recently discontinued, I have ha= d extremely good luck with Chinese suppliers either from Amazon or Ebay. For= things that are long out of production, such as 1802 (normal, not SOS) and 6= 502 processors, I've heard way too many horror stories so I look to ebay for = new old stock or used from US or sometimes European suppliers. Again, I've h= ad very good luck. In fact, I can't remember every getting any bad ones. YM= MV Will Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for child= ren to be always and forever explaining things to them, Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince --===============5646018221050963517==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 30 22:46:56 2024 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 16:46:43 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <270590209.6342338.1711837646378@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1808874676808074350==" --===============1808874676808074350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-03-30 4:27 p.m., Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > I'm not clear on whether you mean some specific chips or in general, but he= re is my experience. > For things that are in current production or recently discontinued, I have = had extremely good luck with Chinese suppliers either from Amazon or Ebay. F= or things that are long out of production, such as 1802 (normal, not SOS) and= 6502 processors, I've heard way too many horror stories so I look to ebay fo= r new old stock or used from US or sometimes European suppliers. Again, I've= had very good luck. In fact, I can't remember every getting any bad ones. = YMMV >=20 > Will Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some=20 TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. Ben. Still designing that vintage computer Newer is not always better. --===============1808874676808074350==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Mar 31 00:11:12 2024 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 00:10:56 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3676536917187372986==" --===============3676536917187372986== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some > TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s in D= IP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think we've had= a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in recent history,= and we're usually buying QTY 100. Thanks, Jonathan --===============3676536917187372986==-- From tony@tonyjones.com Sun Mar 31 00:25:36 2024 From: Tony Jones To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 17:25:19 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CZxXL55nGphkAdaVgpEvLXsTc0SigAGXDiUqB7ohE0ErYiiXJx2?= =?utf-8?q?WHM1ZjBWnCYrgSrbARWLKrT8bH7UJlvk0UD4vtsgARtnXpPD3jqpd8U7s=3D=40gl?= =?utf-8?q?itchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8279808303758039964==" --===============8279808303758039964== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some > > TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. > > Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s > in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think > we've had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in > recent history, and we're usually buying QTY 100. > Yeah, I don't see much issue with 74LS right now. Genuine 74F is getting hard to find. utsource used to be my reliable Chinese goto but a few years ago they moved to this Amazon model where they allow other sellers to list items including a lot who use names like "genuine utsource" and "real utsource store" with no way to filter them out. My last order with them just before Xmas was very poor (obvious remarks, shipped items from cheaper sellers other than the seller I selected, claimed a specific brand I needed but then sent totally different which had known timing issues). Their CS was maddening. I ended up getting a partial refund via PayPal. --===============8279808303758039964==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Sun Mar 31 00:25:55 2024 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 00:25:06 +0000 Message-ID: <8f044444593b4288805ceae4b5da5bc6@emeritus-solutions.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CZxXL55nGphkAdaVgpEvLXsTc0SigAGXDiUqB7ohE0ErYiiXJx2?= =?utf-8?q?WHM1ZjBWnCYrgSrbARWLKrT8bH7UJlvk0UD4vtsgARtnXpPD3jqpd8U7s=3D=40gl?= =?utf-8?q?itchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5872122610369293571==" --===============5872122610369293571== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mouser pass the SN7404 test https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/?q=3Dsn7404 SN74LS https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/?q=3Dsn74ls&instock=3Dy&normallystocked=3Dy= brings up 381 lines in stock; doubtless lots of package / packaging duplicat= es=20 DS8641 (Q/U bus transceiver) and suchlike are of course quite another story := substantially unobtanium Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Chapman via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 31 March 2024 00:11 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Jonathan Chapman Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere > Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has=20 > some TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s in D= IP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think we've had= a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in recent history,= and we're usually buying QTY 100. Thanks, Jonathan --===============5872122610369293571==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 31 01:22:06 2024 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 19:21:54 -0600 Message-ID: <908c78b6-4f72-4da7-8b19-9078567cd9bf@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CZxXL55nGphkAdaVgpEvLXsTc0SigAGXDiUqB7ohE0ErYiiXJx2?= =?utf-8?q?WHM1ZjBWnCYrgSrbARWLKrT8bH7UJlvk0UD4vtsgARtnXpPD3jqpd8U7s=3D=40gl?= =?utf-8?q?itchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2531461112317217182==" --===============2531461112317217182== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-03-30 6:10 p.m., Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: >> Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some >> TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. >=20 > Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s in= DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think we've h= ad a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in recent histor= y, and we're usually buying QTY 100. >=20 > Thanks, > Jonathan I checked mouser (canada) again. After about 3 pages of garbage matches,=20 I found some 7904's in DIP packages, only a few 100 in stock. TI and Motorola sell 74LS541's but only the Motorola part has Vin Low of .8 volts. TI has .6 Vin low. Are there any more part differences between=20 TI and other digital logic. --===============2531461112317217182==-- From smbaker@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 01:55:59 2024 From: Scott Baker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 18:55:40 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <908c78b6-4f72-4da7-8b19-9078567cd9bf@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1411578512995536631==" --===============1411578512995536631== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Been lurking for a while, but this topic hits true with some recent experiences. I would not hesitate to buy most common digital ICs on Amazon or ebay, but I usually will not buy analog ICs other than from trusted sources, such as Mouser. I have bought LM2596 voltage regulators that oscillate at the wrong frequency (which breaks all the calculations for selecting the inductor), and I have bought MAX202/MAX232 serial drivers that burn up in circuit. Switching to official sources cured both of those problems. You also have to be careful of things like SRAM (for example AS6C4008) as I have found the cheap ones don't meet the performance of the ones from Mouser, even though the silkscreen says they're the same manufacturer and speed. If you're paying more than an order of magnitude less for something than it sells for on Mouser, it's probably not the same part. UTSource used to be good, but I found now commonly engages in bait and switch. A week after I submit an order, I would get some email claiming a supply issue and demanding that I submit additional paypal payment for my order to ship The last order, this happened on two different part numbers, one went from $14/IC to $50/IC and another part went from $5/IC to $12/IC. This had happened several times over the last couple months with them. Maybe they really are having issues with their suppliers (though I swear this was happening on items where UTSource itself was listed as the supplier) but that's not really my concern. They were becoming a huge waste of time and source of frustration. I put them on vacation Aliexpress is full of fakes, on anything and everything, and sometimes you have to repeatedly argue to get your money back. eBay is better at siding with the buyer. Scott On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:22 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2024-03-30 6:10 p.m., Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: > >> Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some > >> TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. > > > > Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s > in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think > we've had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in > recent history, and we're usually buying QTY 100. > > > > Thanks, > > Jonathan > > I checked mouser (canada) again. After about 3 pages of garbage matches, > I found some 7904's in DIP packages, only a few 100 in stock. > > TI and Motorola sell 74LS541's but only the Motorola part has Vin Low of > .8 volts. TI has .6 Vin low. Are there any more part differences between > TI and other digital logic. > > > --===============1411578512995536631==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Mar 31 02:23:50 2024 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 02:23:35 +0000 Message-ID: <_00HEjdSDCJP2YAgamwlmvmTBhFwPYOP9qPQZlelv-rxgYUiIydhBWGdGK1uoGWT_TXCZeNcqgVGZI-M_K-1OhziC6bAyv4SE4mrr-Kwrwk=@glitchwrks.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3987486087530844803==" --===============3987486087530844803== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Been lurking for a while, but this topic hits true with some recent > experiences. I would not hesitate to buy most common digital ICs on Amazon > or ebay I mean we had to stop buying 7400 series from Jameco over counterfeits, so it= 's definitely a problem for jellybean parts too. We had so many reject 74F573= latches go out in XT-IDE kits we just scrapped the remaining Jameco-provided= inventory. We also started having issues with 28C64B EEPROMs from them, obvi= ous relabels that wouldn't program with the Atmel SDP algorithm -- that's act= ually why they started shipping pre-programmed in kits! Real shame, I've boug= ht from Jameco since I was a kid, they'd actually sell to Just Some Kid :P Personally I'm not willing to save the relatively small amount of money on TT= L by buying from random sources. It's especially infuriating when you're buil= ding something for the first time (prototypes, someone else's project you've = never put together, etc.) and it turns out to be a dead 25 cent chip. Thanks, Jonathan --===============3987486087530844803==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 02:53:27 2024 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 19:53:08 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CZxXL55nGphkAdaVgpEvLXsTc0SigAGXDiUqB7ohE0ErYiiXJx2?= =?utf-8?q?WHM1ZjBWnCYrgSrbARWLKrT8bH7UJlvk0UD4vtsgARtnXpPD3jqpd8U7s=3D=40gl?= =?utf-8?q?itchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3295924549769287798==" --===============3295924549769287798== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: > > > Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some > > TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. > > Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s in= DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think we've h= ad a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in recent histor= y, and we're usually buying QTY 100. > You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. --===============3295924549769287798==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 03:48:45 2024 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 11:48:30 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7184059817067565870==" --===============7184059817067565870== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am very happy to buy from Amazon and Digikey even if sometimes they are a little more expensive. I want them to be around for the long term, so I support them as much as possible. Their range is amazing. On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, 10:53=E2=80=AFam Glen Slick via cctalk, wrote: > On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some > > > TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. > > > > Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s > in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think > we've had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in > recent history, and we're usually buying QTY 100. > > > > You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show > around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. > > https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N > > The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 > each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. > > I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. > --===============7184059817067565870==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 03:50:08 2024 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 11:49:54 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0791172439278926446==" --===============0791172439278926446== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry I mistyped. I meant Mouser and Digikey, not Amazon and Digikey. On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, 11:48 am Tom Hunter, wrote: > I am very happy to buy from Amazon and Digikey even if sometimes they are > a little more expensive. I want them to be around for the long term, so I > support them as much as possible. Their range is amazing. > > On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, 10:53 am Glen Slick via cctalk, < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk >> wrote: >> > >> > > Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has >> some >> > > TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. >> > >> > Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 >> 74LS04s in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't >> think we've had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser >> in recent history, and we're usually buying QTY 100. >> > >> >> You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show >> around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. >> >> https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N >> >> The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 >> each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. >> >> I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. >> > --===============0791172439278926446==-- From brain@jbrain.com Sun Mar 31 04:09:07 2024 From: Jim Brain To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 23:03:58 -0500 Message-ID: <12817101-28f7-418c-96f8-d0230fb190d6@jbrain.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0275258864373577670==" --===============0275258864373577670== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/30/2024 10:49 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Sorry I mistyped. I meant Mouser and Digikey, not Amazon and Digikey. Whew! I was playing that Sesame Street "which of these is NOT like the other" song in my head reading your earlier post. :-) Since Digikey/Mouser/RS don't always have some of the more esoteric ICs I need, I do sometimes have to hit the secondary markets. I can confirm there are reputable places to do so, but I agree there has to be a compelling reason to forego places like Digikey. I find it telling that my non US PCBA buys all the actives from Digikey or Mouser and will consider only passives from local sources. Of course, that means I pay a US outbound tariff on the active parts and then an inbound tariff on the completed products, thus paying tariff costs twice. Jim -- Jim Brain brain(a)jbrain.com www.jbrain.com --===============0275258864373577670==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 31 04:39:27 2024 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:39:11 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3C=5F00HEjdSDCJP2YAgamwlmvmTBhFwPYOP9qPQZlelv-rxgYUi?= =?utf-8?q?IydhBWGdGK1uoGWT=5FTXCZeNcqgVGZI-M=5FK-1OhziC6bAyv4SE4mrr-Kwrwk?= =?utf-8?q?=3D=40glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6110554137301358092==" --===============6110554137301358092== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-03-30 8:23 p.m., Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: >> Been lurking for a while, but this topic hits true with some recent >> experiences. I would not hesitate to buy most common digital ICs on Amazon >> or ebay >=20 > I mean we had to stop buying 7400 series from Jameco over counterfeits, so = it's definitely a problem for jellybean parts too. We had so many reject 74F5= 73 latches go out in XT-IDE kits we just scrapped the remaining Jameco-provid= ed inventory. We also started having issues with 28C64B EEPROMs from them, ob= vious relabels that wouldn't program with the Atmel SDP algorithm -- that's a= ctually why they started shipping pre-programmed in kits! Real shame, I've bo= ught from Jameco since I was a kid, they'd actually sell to Just Some Kid :P >=20 > Personally I'm not willing to save the relatively small amount of money on = TTL by buying from random sources. It's especially infuriating when you're bu= ilding something for the first time (prototypes, someone else's project you'v= e never put together, etc.) and it turns out to be a dead 25 cent chip. >=20 > Thanks, > Jonathan Well the pal programmer I have does test TTL, a handy option, for junk=20 box stuff. I tend to have a bad habit of putting in parts upside dowm or the wrong programmed part, for the simple fact DARK plastic hard to read in most homes with dark gray labels. --===============6110554137301358092==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 31 04:49:03 2024 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:48:44 -0600 Message-ID: <88d590d4-4421-463f-aeed-5d1f8a0c923f@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6260732523057985689==" --===============6260732523057985689== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2024-03-30 8:53 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > > You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show > around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. > > https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N > > The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 > each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. > > I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. 185 In Stock 595-SN7404NE4 prices in canadian $'s QTY 1 $3.84 QTY 1000 $1.89 --===============6260732523057985689==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 31 04:52:35 2024 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:52:23 -0600 Message-ID: <146653f3-2730-4881-9aa8-998401b529a3@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5235176306902177836==" --===============5235176306902177836== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2024-03-30 9:49 p.m., Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Sorry I mistyped. I meant Mouser and Digikey, not Amazon and Digikey. > Well the searches suck on both. Digikey is bad for having 0 stock listings. Digikey is turning out to be more the Radio Shack for parts. --===============5235176306902177836==-- From organlists1@sonic.net Sun Mar 31 06:18:30 2024 From: Don R To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2024 23:18:12 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2707240912989611627==" --===============2707240912989611627== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My problem with DigiKey is tacking on the additional =E2=80=9Ctariff=E2=80=9D= charge on invoices. Granted it=E2=80=99s not an extreme amount, but still= =E2=80=A6=20 I contacted Mouser about imposing additional tariff charges, and was told a r= esounding no. Thanks to our past president for increasing the cost of doing business, and t= hanks to our current president for not caring enough to roll it back. =20 Getting off soap box. :o) Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On Mar 30, 2024, at 8:48 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI am very happy to buy from Amazon and Digikey even if sometimes t= hey are a > little more expensive. I want them to be around for the long term, so I > support them as much as possible. Their range is amazing. >=20 >> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, 10:53=E2=80=AFam Glen Slick via cctalk, >> wrote: >>=20 >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some >>>> TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. >>>=20 >>> Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s >> in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think >> we've had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in >> recent history, and we're usually buying QTY 100. >>>=20 >>=20 >> You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show >> around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. >>=20 >> https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N >>=20 >> The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 >> each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. >>=20 >> I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. >>=20 >=20 --===============2707240912989611627==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 09:30:59 2024 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 04:30:58 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6115106240655265922==" --===============6115106240655265922== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have about 10 either NOS or referbs in two different types. I'll try to look for them this weekend. Paul On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 3:11 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > pick up only, sorry > b > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 4:05 PM Just Kant via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > > > On Friday, March 29th, 2024 at 3:03 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe > it's > > > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > > > b > > > > > --===============6115106240655265922==-- From jrr@flippers.com Sun Mar 31 15:15:24 2024 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 08:08:29 -0700 Message-ID: <5b13f74a-6136-4224-aaac-86f3775f04f6@flippers.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7420419780969242301==" --===============7420419780969242301== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024/03/30 7:53 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > wrote: >>> Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some >>> TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. >> Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s i= n DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think we've = had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in recent histo= ry, and we're usually buying QTY 100. >> > You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show > around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. > > https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N > > The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 > each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. > > I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. Interesting, but does TI offer free international shipping with import=20 duties & taxes covered if you order over $100US? John :-#)# --=20 John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============7420419780969242301==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 19:49:22 2024 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 12:49:05 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5b13f74a-6136-4224-aaac-86f3775f04f6@flippers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4764119650163592799==" --===============4764119650163592799== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 8:15=E2=80=AFAM John Robertson via cctalk wrote: > > On 2024/03/30 7:53 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > > wrote: > >>> Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has some > >>> TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. > >> Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 74LS04s= in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think we'v= e had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in recent his= tory, and we're usually buying QTY 100. > >> > > You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show > > around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. > > > > https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N > > > > The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 > > each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. > > > > I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. > > Interesting, but does TI offer free international shipping with import > duties & taxes covered if you order over $100US? > > John :-#)# My last order directly from TI was 2.5 years ago, longer than I remembered. Back in November 2021, in addition to the line item cost for each quantity of parts that I ordered, there was a total shipping charge, plus the total local WA state sales tax charge. There was no separate import charge. The shipping charge at the time seemed very reasonable. For one order of 4 tubes of DIP parts it was $7 total, with that shipping charge then split between FedEx shipping from TX for some parts, and DHL shipping from ASIA for other parts. I forget why I ordered directly from TI at the time. Maybe they had some of the parts in stock that were not currently in stock at Mouser or Digi-Key, or maybe the total with shipping was lower than at either Mouser or Digi-Key. --===============4764119650163592799==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 20:03:28 2024 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:03:11 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2134580500839679448==" --===============2134580500839679448== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone had problems with LCSC ? They can be a lot cheaper than mouser or digikey but I tend to trust them more than Aliexpress and ebay. On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 7:18 AM Don R via cctalk wrote: > My problem with DigiKey is tacking on the additional “tariff” charge on > invoices. Granted it’s not an extreme amount, but still… > > I contacted Mouser about imposing additional tariff charges, and was told > a resounding no. > > Thanks to our past president for increasing the cost of doing business, > and thanks to our current president for not caring enough to roll it back. > > Getting off soap box. :o) > > Don Resor > > Sent from someone's iPhone > > > On Mar 30, 2024, at 8:48 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > I am very happy to buy from Amazon and Digikey even if sometimes they > are a > > little more expensive. I want them to be around for the long term, so I > > support them as much as possible. Their range is amazing. > > > >> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, 10:53 am Glen Slick via cctalk, < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 5:11 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Standard TTL 74XXX is drying up rather quickly. Futurlec still has > some > >>>> TTL but 7404s are all gone. Even LS is hard to find. > >>> > >>> Ours comes from Mouser, between two part #s they have over 7,000 > 74LS04s > >> in DIP packaging in stock. Didn't check ACT, HCT, or ALS. I don't think > >> we've had a 7400 series part that we couldn't just order off Mouser in > >> recent history, and we're usually buying QTY 100. > >>> > >> > >> You can also buy parts direct from TI, for example they currently show > >> around around 3000 SN74LS04N parts in stock. > >> > >> https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS04/part-details/SN74LS04N > >> > >> The prices for that part match the current Mouser prices of $0.674 > >> each, or $0.519 each if you buy at least 4 tubes of 25 parts. > >> > >> I've bought some tubes of 74LS parts direct from TI in the last year. > >> > > > > --===============2134580500839679448==-- From brain@jbrain.com Sun Mar 31 20:33:54 2024 From: Jim Brain To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 15:33:47 -0500 Message-ID: <262834c7-1bdf-45da-bc17-4db4e56e8201@jbrain.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9208010426620818895==" --===============9208010426620818895== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/31/2024 3:03 PM, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > Has anyone had problems with LCSC ? I've not, but I have used https://www.utsource.net/ with good luck. Jim --===============9208010426620818895==-- From a.carlini@ntlworld.com Sun Mar 31 22:29:25 2024 From: Antonio Carlini To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 23:29:18 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3616572863118399973==" --===============3616572863118399973== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 28/03/2024 23:29, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way > before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing > newer. It's no more legal than running VMS V6.1 without a valid PAK (that was legally transferred to you). The only difference is that you didn't have to subvert the LMF. > Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it. This bit is true. -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============3616572863118399973==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Mon Apr 1 13:14:09 2024 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] WAS: Amoeba OS, Now: VAX/VMS Licensing? Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 23:45:55 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4476532263966096919==" --===============4476532263966096919== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I am completely ignorant when it comes to VMS licensing and how it wo= rks (or worked).=20 I purchased a MicroVAX that is running VMS V5.3. Do I need to worry about it = ceasing to work at some point? I don=E2=80=99t have any paperwork for the license, just a running machine. What should I know about this? 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Carlini via cctalk =20 Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 6:29 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Antonio Carlini Subject: [cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS On 28/03/2024 23:29, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way=20 > before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing=20 > newer. It's no more legal than running VMS V6.1 without a valid PAK (that was legall= y transferred to you). The only difference is that you didn't have to subvert the LMF. > Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it. This bit is true. -- Antonio Carlini antonio(a)acarlini.com --===============4476532263966096919==--