From steven@malikoff.com Sun Oct 1 02:32:25 2023 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Shelves / Rails for DEC Racks Questions Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2023 12:32:19 +1000 Message-ID: <1294830006.265761.1696127539507@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7086282515002993769==" --===============7086282515002993769== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm unable to find original Chassis-Trak rails where I am so I fit DEC gear i= nto H960s using modern server rack rails, cheap cabinet rails and aluminium a= ngle, and they all work acceptably. Modern servers aren't anywhere near old DEC gear in weight so the thin modern= rails are out but there are rails (about 80 to 100mm wide, lying flat) where= a pair are just thin enough to support say a BA11-K sliding through the fron= t of the H960. They are always adorned with all manner of quick-release levers and pivoting = brackets so some angle grinder, Dremel and pin punch work soon removes all th= is. Then they need to be cut down, sometimes this can be done without fully disas= sembling and losing ball bearings by using a Dremel and a few reinforced cut-= off wheels. Once trimmed I drill the far ends and put a small screw through t= o prevent the inder rails sailing out the back. Cabinet slides are dirt cheap and plentiful and I recently used some for Diab= lo racking. I decided to put them on 3mm aluminium plates with heavy al angle= (all from scrap) along the sides. There are locating/locking pins at the bac= k that function like the original Diablo slides.=20 https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/what-do-your-happy-places-look-like= .1244597/#post-1336456 For plain shelving, I've found 3mm x 3mm x 25mm ( 1/8 x 1/8" x 1") al angle w= orks fine is the least effort. I made a simple 3D printed drilling jig for using this in an H960 so the top = of the inside surface is at the lower edge of the DEC gear. Two are needed. P= ress fit the jig into the H960 side holes, clamp the al angle onto the jig an= d drill 15/64" through, then self-thread 1/4-20 screws and it's done. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4311796 The one thing that's consistent in all the above measuring marking scribing c= utting bending drilling threading is that nothing is consistent. Steve. --===============7086282515002993769==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Sun Oct 1 02:40:39 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Documentary on the SKALA computer of Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 19:40:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1624647261257155032==" --===============1624647261257155032== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a pretty interesting documentary describing the computer (SKALA) that ran the Chernobyl nuclear complex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbaptQh2AM4 Sellam --===============1624647261257155032==-- From wrm@dW.co.za Sun Oct 1 07:38:45 2023 From: Wouter de Waal To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Microcom S-64 8085 system Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2023 09:31:55 +0200 Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20231001092826.05679a48@mort.dW.co.za> In-Reply-To: <169600680694.2847341.13018587079895864734@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3199941029391192097==" --===============3199941029391192097== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I re-discovered some eurocards I found in a box at a swapmeet long ago. It looks like a complete 8085 system. Lots of RAM, 2K EPROM, I/O, FDC. The strange thing is that the EPROM is mapped at F800, the code in there looks like 8085 code, and looks like it wants to live at F800. And there's RAM at 0000. The DIN41612 A/C 64 pin bus has provision for 16 bits data. Pics here http://retro.co.za/8085/Microcom/ Anyone maybe have more information on this? I'm curious. W --===============3199941029391192097==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Sun Oct 1 07:45:47 2023 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Microcom S-64 8085 system Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2023 08:45:29 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20231001092826.05679a48@mort.dW.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3261621909801194321==" --===============3261621909801194321== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Oct 1, 2023 at 8:38 AM Wouter de Waal via cctalk wrote: > > Hi all > > I re-discovered some eurocards I found in a box at a swapmeet long ago. > > It looks like a complete 8085 system. Lots of RAM, 2K EPROM, I/O, FDC. > > The strange thing is that the EPROM is mapped at F800, the code in there > looks like 8085 code, and looks like it wants to live at F800. And there's > RAM at 0000. It might have run CP/M (which will run on an 8080, and therefore on an 8085). That needs RAM at location 0000 [1]. If the EPROM is mapped to F800 only (some machines mapped it to 0000 as well after a reset, this image was disabled after the processor jumped to F800 or wherever) then there might be a bit of logic to force a jump instruction onto the data bus after a reset to get the processor to run the code in the EPROM. [1] For the pedants, there were 'relocated versions of CP/M that could run on machines like an unmodified TRS-80 model 1 with ROM at location 0. These versions needed special relocated versions of all the application software and were generally pretty useless. -tony --===============3261621909801194321==-- From wrm@dW.co.za Sun Oct 1 07:58:20 2023 From: Wouter de Waal To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Microcom S-64 8085 system Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2023 09:58:06 +0200 Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20231001095605.059fdc38@mort.dW.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2840257756200132131==" --===============2840257756200132131== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tony and all >It might have run CP/M (which will run on an 8080, and therefore on an >8085). That needs RAM at location 0000 [1]. I know of CP/M, I even used CP/M (on my Apple) but I did not know it needs RAM at 0000. That's kind of strange, since everything that ran CP/M (OK, everything -80) has vectors at 0. I guess there was a reason behind it. I see the CPU board has a jumper "F000/F800" so I guess it does something to map that address to 0 after reset. W --===============2840257756200132131==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Oct 1 21:04:16 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Possible DC012 Control Chip Fault on a VT100 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2023 22:04:06 +0100 Message-ID: <028401d9f4aa$d0d79fb0$7286df10$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7140182428698106022==" --===============7140182428698106022== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have my faulty VT100 now passing the RAM test, but it is still not producing any output to the screen. Looking at the DC012 chip it seems to be permanently asserting the interrupt line and not generating any DMA HOLD REQUEST signals. It seems that all the clock inputs are running (DOT CLK, CHAR CLK, VERT RESET). Unless there are other clock inputs not shown on the schematic, I think this suggests that the DC012 is faulty. Does anyone know of any other reason why the DC012 might behave this way? Anyone have a spare DC012 chip? I have posted a bit more detail here: https://robs-old-computers.com/2023/10/01/vt100-ram-fault/ Thanks Rob --===============7140182428698106022==-- From Stefan.Skoglund@agj.net Mon Oct 2 09:18:41 2023 From: Stefan Skoglund To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 11:08:13 +0200 Message-ID: <8e687cf29499dd80b4fbd4b56f93192fcfb62957.camel@agj.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2096580226126853251==" --===============2096580226126853251== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency..... I need to move 1 PB ..... how long will it take filling and packing enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? --===============2096580226126853251==-- From rice43@btinternet.com Mon Oct 2 10:12:05 2023 From: Joshua Rice To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 11:11:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1cb44763.5b6b.18aefdf795d.Webtop.115@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <8e687cf29499dd80b4fbd4b56f93192fcfb62957.camel@agj.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9189004973276730975==" --===============9189004973276730975== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LTO-9 is probably not the best route for "Sneakernet" transfers. When Tanenbaum uttered that famous quote, tape was still relatively fast (at least sequentially), as well as it having unparalleled capacity. Nowadays, if you were to do large-but-fast data transfers, i'd chuck all the data on a large SAN and put that in the back of the van. Amazon AWS offer a similar product when moving data from one place to another. Of course, if you had enough LTO-9 drives to load/unload data all in parallel, the transfer time would probably be in the same ballpark as the SAN. But keeping the data synced would be a nightmare, and all those LTO-9 drives would be horrendously expensive. Yes, a van full of data hurtling down the highway will still have much more bandwidth than an internet connection, but nowadays what's in the back of the van is unlikely to be tape. Cheers, Josh Rice ------ Original Message ------ From: "Stefan Skoglund via cctalk" To: david(a)kdbarto.org; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "Stefan Skoglund" Sent: Monday, 2 Oct, 2023 At 10:08 Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency..... I need to move 1 PB ..... how long will it take filling and packing enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? --===============9189004973276730975==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Mon Oct 2 10:26:19 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 06:25:56 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8e687cf29499dd80b4fbd4b56f93192fcfb62957.camel@agj.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5950198076872022456==" --===============5950198076872022456== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stefan, Back it up to floppy diskettes. HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. -Ken On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is > latency..... > > I need to move 1 PB ..... how long will it take filling and packing > enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? > > How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED --===============5950198076872022456==-- From tshoppa@wmata.com Mon Oct 2 17:12:22 2023 From: "Shoppa, Tim" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Soviet tube/transistor/IC spec source Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 17:12:14 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1033540434468182330==" --===============1033540434468182330== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those working with ex-Soviet equipment from the 60=E2=80=99s and 70=E2=80= =99s here=E2=80=99s a remarkable resource: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pk= g/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88935be001eb551b4c/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88= 935be001eb551b4c.pdf I am astonished that I found it in this in the US National Bureau of Standard= s (today NIST) archives =F0=9F=98=8A Tim N3QE --===============1033540434468182330==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Mon Oct 2 18:29:10 2023 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Soviet tube/transistor/IC spec source Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 18:28:59 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB480978B033ADF0CA7BFE3587BAC5A=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?4809=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4805225740163428429==" --===============4805225740163428429== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very cool, thanks for sharing! I didn't know such a tabulation existed! Thanks, Jonathan ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, October 2nd, 2023 at 13:12, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 > For those working with ex-Soviet equipment from the 60=E2=80=99s and 70=E2= =80=99s here=E2=80=99s a remarkable resource: https://www.govinfo.gov/content= /pkg/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88935be001eb551b4c/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dca= a88935be001eb551b4c.pdf >=20 > I am astonished that I found it in this in the US National Bureau of Standa= rds (today NIST) archives =F0=9F=98=8A >=20 > Tim N3QE --===============4805225740163428429==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Mon Oct 2 19:15:28 2023 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 12:15:21 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7383832508332883116==" --===============7383832508332883116== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18=E2=80=AFAM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: > >> The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency..... >> >> I need to move 1 PB ..... how long will it take filling and packing >> enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? >> >> How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? On Mon, 2 Oct 2023, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > Back it up to floppy diskettes. > HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. Far too unstable and prone to damage and data corruption. Use dead-tree technology of cards or paper tape. If you use cards, put diagonal sharpie marks on the decks, to facilitate=20 visual re-ordering after the crash on the freeway. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============7383832508332883116==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Mon Oct 2 21:15:02 2023 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 17:14:38 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6710113249938402904==" --===============6710113249938402904== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember making those lines, but they were more for a crash across the room on the way from the 082 sorter to the 077 collator. Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I remember my thirty-year old cell phone number... On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:15=E2=80=AFPM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18=E2=80=AFAM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is > latency..... > >> > >> I need to move 1 PB ..... how long will it take filling and packing > >> enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? > >> > >> How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2023, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > > Back it up to floppy diskettes. > > HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. > > Far too unstable and prone to damage and data corruption. > Use dead-tree technology of cards or paper tape. > If you use cards, put diagonal sharpie marks on the decks, to facilitate > visual re-ordering after the crash on the freeway. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============6710113249938402904==-- From rickb@bensene.com Mon Oct 2 22:36:58 2023 From: Rick Bensene To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 22:36:16 +0000 Message-ID: <0c9741090e9f425eab474e071deb3c62@bensene.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3270006595337334956==" --===============3270006595337334956== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike wrote: ... Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I rem= ember my thirty-year old cell phone number... Because you rarely, if ever, call it. ;-) --===============3270006595337334956==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Mon Oct 2 22:37:47 2023 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 16:37:34 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7289472022435237883==" --===============7289472022435237883== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2023-10-02 1:15 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk >> wrote: >> >>> The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is >>> latency..... >>> >>> I need to move 1 PB ..... how long will it take filling and packing >>> enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? >>> >>> How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2023, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: >> Back it up to floppy diskettes. >> HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. > > Far too unstable and prone to damage and data corruption. > Use dead-tree technology of cards or paper tape. > If you use cards, put diagonal sharpie marks on the decks, to facilitate > visual re-ordering after the crash on the freeway. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred             cisin(a)xenosoft.com Also EAST / WEST , in case of data collision. :) --===============7289472022435237883==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Mon Oct 2 22:42:05 2023 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 16:41:56 -0600 Message-ID: <379fda2e-2b5e-a9c5-c73d-5e094474b9bc@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: <0c9741090e9f425eab474e071deb3c62@bensene.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3050673783311059357==" --===============3050673783311059357== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-10-02 4:36 p.m., Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > Mike wrote: > ... > Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I r= emember my thirty-year old cell phone number... >=20 > Because you rarely, if ever, call it. ;-) >=20 I never could figure out how to call myself, so I have no need to=20 remember it. BTW the last time I have seen a phone book was about 25 years ago. --===============3050673783311059357==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Tue Oct 3 01:24:44 2023 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 21:24:22 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0c9741090e9f425eab474e071deb3c62@bensene.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0805691962154869937==" --===============0805691962154869937== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have to call it every time I misplace it in the house somewhere ;-) Never in the fridge yet, so far... Golden years, my derriere! On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 6:37 PM Rick Bensene via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Mike wrote: > ... > Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I > remember my thirty-year old cell phone number... > > Because you rarely, if ever, call it. ;-) > > > --===============0805691962154869937==-- From curiousmarc3@gmail.com Tue Oct 3 02:44:00 2023 From: Curious Marc To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Soviet tube/transistor/IC spec source Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 19:43:44 -0700 Message-ID: <2B9D4EC3-40DA-43BA-8DA7-1DFAF32BD4F2@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CQwaZhDkw9UeZret0iOWQuWbwRz=5FHeM0dIChb6bPMBQPYuFPC?= =?utf-8?q?v8sIcsw2EsFS7WxmmScu1ijXW4gDmY4E3OmR6Dc7ktM96iqnhspwwizomew=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7572699815789390789==" --===============7572699815789390789== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sweet. This encyclopedic! Thanks a lot! Marc > On Oct 2, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >=20 > Very cool, thanks for sharing! I didn't know such a tabulation existed! >=20 > Thanks, > Jonathan >=20 > ------- Original Message ------- >> On Monday, October 2nd, 2023 at 13:12, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> For those working with ex-Soviet equipment from the 60=E2=80=99s and 70=E2= =80=99s here=E2=80=99s a remarkable resource: https://www.govinfo.gov/content= /pkg/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88935be001eb551b4c/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dca= a88935be001eb551b4c.pdf >>=20 >> I am astonished that I found it in this in the US National Bureau of Stand= ards (today NIST) archives =F0=9F=98=8A >>=20 >> Tim N3QE --===============7572699815789390789==-- From holm@freibergnet.de Tue Oct 3 13:52:14 2023 From: Holm Tiffe To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Microcom S-64 8085 system Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 15:46:36 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20231001092826.05679a48@mort.dW.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2477195034835276829==" --===============2477195034835276829== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wouter de Waal via cctalk wrote: > Hi all > > I re-discovered some eurocards I found in a box at a swapmeet long ago. > > It looks like a complete 8085 system. Lots of RAM, 2K EPROM, I/O, FDC. > > The strange thing is that the EPROM is mapped at F800, the code in there > looks like 8085 code, and looks like it wants to live at F800. And there's > RAM at 0000. > > The DIN41612 A/C 64 pin bus has provision for 16 bits data. > > Pics here http://retro.co.za/8085/Microcom/ > > Anyone maybe have more information on this? I'm curious. > > W Besides of relocating the entire ROM temporarly to 0x0 there are other possibilities, for example placing NOP's (0x0) on the data bus until the bus addresses reaching 0xf800 for the first time. This way a few extra gates and a flipflop is all what you need. On Z80 Systems I've mostly used a mechanism that enables writes to the RAM at 0x0, but the reads came from the ROM until an flipflop was set by an out instruction (and reset by Reset). Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583 info(a)tsht.de Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 --===============2477195034835276829==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Wed Oct 4 02:23:50 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 22:23:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2071830891688170313==" --===============2071830891688170313== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the seller pulled the auction to sell privately. Bill --===============2071830891688170313==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Wed Oct 4 04:18:54 2023 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 23:18:46 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0319092118492495091==" --===============0319092118492495091== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the seller > pulled the auction to sell privately. > Bill I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's the last straight 8 I saw listed. https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in the listing.  No relist by this vendor.  He also did something on Sept 2 with is. Thanks jim --===============0319092118492495091==-- From mumpsdev@icloud.com Wed Oct 4 06:48:58 2023 From: Tommy Chang To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: GEAC Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 23:40:46 -0700 Message-ID: <29C61DD9-4B8E-4997-9C65-FC7E6F0667A9@icloud.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55803CEEBBE19BBC94FF9275EDC0A=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4530877774496912701==" --===============4530877774496912701== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, A lot of them (at least in later years) would have run on Vmark/IBM/Rocket un= iVerse which is still available from Rocket.=20 Tommy Chang Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 29, 2023, at 6:34 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Here's a question for all our Computer Museum curators. >=20 >=20 > Have any of the old GEAC Library systems ever been salvaged and put into >=20 > a museum? They were curious boxes and I think would make a nice addition >=20 > to a collection. >=20 >=20 > bill >=20 >=20 --===============4530877774496912701==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Thu Oct 5 19:34:19 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 12:34:01 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5740305482753248879==" --===============5740305482753248879== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Oct 3, 2023, 9:18 PM jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > > On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that > > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the > seller > > pulled the auction to sell privately. > > Bill > I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's > the last straight 8 I saw listed. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 > > I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing > for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the > same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. > > This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in > the listing. No relist by this vendor. He also did something on Sept 2 > with is. > > Thanks > jim > Realistically, $18,000 is not a bad price at all for a complete PDP-8. The only downside is the broken off corner of the front panel glass. Sellam --===============5740305482753248879==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Thu Oct 5 19:45:13 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 15:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2993391244950822073==" --===============2993391244950822073== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is there specific evidence it sold? All we know is that the listing was pulled. I guess no one here bought it Bill On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:34 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 3, 2023, 9:18 PM jim stephens via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that > > > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the > > seller > > > pulled the auction to sell privately. > > > Bill > > I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's > > the last straight 8 I saw listed. > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 > > > > I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing > > for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the > > same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. > > > > This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in > > the listing. No relist by this vendor. He also did something on Sept 2 > > with is. > > > > Thanks > > jim > > > > Realistically, $18,000 is not a bad price at all for a complete PDP-8. The > only downside is the broken off corner of the front panel glass. > > Sellam > --===============2993391244950822073==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Thu Oct 5 20:06:53 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 16:06:40 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9169212707724075231==" --===============9169212707724075231== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Found out from the owner, it was sold to someone in Europe. I did not ask for additional details. On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:45 PM Bill Degnan wrote: > Is there specific evidence it sold? All we know is that the listing was > pulled. I guess no one here bought it > Bill > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:34 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023, 9:18 PM jim stephens via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >> > > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that >> > > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the >> > seller >> > > pulled the auction to sell privately. >> > > Bill >> > I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's >> > the last straight 8 I saw listed. >> > >> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 >> > >> > I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing >> > for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the >> > same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. >> > >> > This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in >> > the listing. No relist by this vendor. He also did something on Sept 2 >> > with is. >> > >> > Thanks >> > jim >> > >> >> Realistically, $18,000 is not a bad price at all for a complete PDP-8. The >> only downside is the broken off corner of the front panel glass. >> >> Sellam >> > --===============9169212707724075231==-- From rodsmallwood52@btinternet.com Thu Oct 5 22:49:55 2023 From: Rod Smallwood To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 22:49:53 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9068189540231706039==" --===============9068189540231706039== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Notwithstanding I'm in the UK I do have a lot of PDP8/e era boards some of which I'd like to sell to raise funds to buy items I dont have. Rod Smallwood On 04/10/2023 03:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the seller > pulled the auction to sell privately. > Bill --===============9068189540231706039==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Thu Oct 5 23:38:33 2023 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay? Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:38:21 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3423163731570013072==" --===============3423163731570013072== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The original listing price was $25,000 and was reduced to $18,000 when=20 there we no bids at the original price. On 10/5/2023 2:34 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Oct 3, 2023, 9:18 PM jim stephens via cctalk > wrote: > >> >> On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >>> There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that >>> disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the >> seller >>> pulled the auction to sell privately. >>> Bill >> I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's >> the last straight 8 I saw listed. >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 >> >> I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing >> for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the >> same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. >> >> This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in >> the listing. No relist by this vendor. He also did something on Sept 2 >> with is. >> >> Thanks >> jim >> > Realistically, $18,000 is not a bad price at all for a complete PDP-8. The > only downside is the broken off corner of the front panel glass. > > Sellam --===============3423163731570013072==-- From organlists1@sonic.net Fri Oct 6 01:22:01 2023 From: "D. Resor" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Obsolete Parts.... Unicorn Electronics Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:10:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3717279535891418266==" --===============3717279535891418266== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently had a need for BC308 transistors. Of course those have been unobtanium for quite some time. My search beyond a distributor then went to eBay where I found Unicorn Electronics. More to the point I see from their website Apple 1, Apple ][ and Apple 1a Kits along with Apple 1 and Apple II parts are available. I thought some here might find this useful. https://unicornelectronics.com/ Don Resor --===============3717279535891418266==-- From hveit01@web.de Fri Oct 6 10:15:33 2023 From: WEB To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Obsolete Parts.... Unicorn Electronics Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 12:02:50 +0200 Message-ID: <9dc03f07-27e3-4c5f-88b9-a157ba170238@web.de> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3C!=26!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAABO5wTM7/NRDgk/3nPo+uv7Cg?= =?utf-8?q?AAAEAAAAIJfh0W1wgNNqwXUm5jpLfsBAAAAAA=3D=3D=40sonic=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2321953564777389392==" --===============2321953564777389392== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 06.10.2023 03:10, D. Resor via cctalk wrote: > I recently had a need for BC308 transistors. Of course those have been > unobtanium for quite some time. > > My search beyond a distributor then went to eBay where I found Unicorn > Electronics. > > More to the point I see from their website Apple 1, Apple ][ and Apple 1a > Kits along with Apple 1 and Apple II parts are available. > > I thought some here might find this useful. > > https://unicornelectronics.com/ Don, unicorn is known for long for interesting old semiconductors. I have also ordered several parts from there, even from Europe which result in rather high shipping and tax costs. Whether the Apple kits are a good deal though, I have my doubts. The BC308 is the PNP complementary part to the former NPN work horse BC238. Both are nowadays difficult to find. However, as they were rather universal types, you can usually replace them with BC548 (NPN) and BC558 (PNP) today without problems. Holger --===============2321953564777389392==-- From geert.rolf@xs4all.nl Fri Oct 6 12:33:05 2023 From: Geert Rolf To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How were 32-bit minis built in the 70s/80? Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:07:23 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8cb2c8a083baeff96452703fcfc191e7.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4046504776879307920==" --===============4046504776879307920== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quote: > I could be remembering incorrectly but I think the Gould PN6080 mini we had= exclusively for third year > comp sci at Macquarie Uni in the mid/late 80s was 32-bit made up of AMD2900= family logic (2901 ALU's). Find attached two pages of the CPU drawings of a Concept 32/67 and=C2=A0=20 PowerNode 6000. Here the AMD 2901s show up. You remembered correctly! Geert Rolf owner of a PowerNode 6040 -- see=20 https://geerol.home.xs4all.nl/DownLoad/UTX-paper.pdf --===============4046504776879307920==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Fri Oct 6 13:33:00 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How were 32-bit minis built in the 70s/80? Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 09:32:42 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2266021691324802644==" --===============2266021691324802644== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting note. Back in the 80's a company called Northern Telecom used 2900 ALU chips to run the SL-1 PBX. It was very popular in hospitals and large firms where down time was bad. It had redundant memory and processor cards for failover. And battery backup to stay up during a power failure. Certain alarms caused the switch to dial a reporting center and send the alarm. Programs were stored on a 3M cartridge tape (6150?) where diagnostic programs ran off hours and communication was accomplished via a 300 baud dialup modem and a local hard copy terminal (usually like a DEC LA36). Call detail records were stored on a 9 track tape. -Ken On Fri, Oct 6, 2023, 8:33 AM Geert Rolf via cctalk wrote: > Quote: > > > I could be remembering incorrectly but I think the Gould PN6080 mini we > had exclusively for third year > > comp sci at Macquarie Uni in the mid/late 80s was 32-bit made up of > AMD2900 family logic (2901 ALU's). > Find attached two pages of the CPU drawings of a Concept 32/67 and > PowerNode 6000. Here the AMD 2901s show up. You remembered correctly! > > Geert Rolf > > owner of a PowerNode 6040 -- see > https://geerol.home.xs4all.nl/DownLoad/UTX-paper.pdf > > --===============2266021691324802644==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sat Oct 7 22:36:06 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The Same Fault Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2023 23:35:55 +0100 Message-ID: <007801d9f96e$a2c79d50$e856d7f0$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7348940661474450546==" --===============7348940661474450546== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted recently that I had identified a faulty RAM chip in my VT100 and having replaced it the terminal seemed to get further into the self test. After further analysis with the logic analyser I have realised that it is still failing the RAM test, despite an apparent change in behaviour. I think the change in behaviour could be simply due to the slightly suspect keyboard cable. But here is the puzzle. When I first identified the faulty RAM chip if found that address 0x2408 would read back as 0x0A instead of 0xAA. I reckon this equates to E50 in the schematic, as it is the upper nibble of the second bank of RAM. I replaced the chip with one I bought recently. It turns out the self-test is still failing at the SAME address. I find this really hard to explain. It can't be the chip selection logic because then the addresses 0x2400-0x2407 would also fail and I checked the CS signal with the logic analyser just to be sure. I also checked the address lines directly on the RAM chip for any stuck bits and they seemed fine too. What are the chances of two 2114 chips failing at exactly the same address? Is there some failure mode I might not be considering? Thanks Rob --===============7348940661474450546==-- From rodsmallwood52@btinternet.com Sun Oct 8 07:38:35 2023 From: Rod Smallwood To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] List of DEC boards Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 08:38:26 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5817980503189299805==" --===============5817980503189299805== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's my list of spare boards Omnibus MM8-E M8320 M8650 M849 M8310 M8300 M8330 Unibus     RX11 G7273 M9970 M9047 M9714 QBUS M7941 M8029     RXV21 M7504      DEQNA-M M7850 M7546 M8186     KDF-11 M9400-YC M7555    RQDX3 Rod Smallwood --===============5817980503189299805==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Oct 8 08:35:00 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The Same Fault Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 09:34:53 +0100 Message-ID: <008701d9f9c2$4fc962b0$ef5c2810$@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <1984738192.908631.1696734879334@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1914872632580051607==" --===============1914872632580051607== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: wrcooke(a)wrcooke.net > Sent: 08 October 2023 04:15 > To: rob(a)jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt via cctalk > Subject: Re: [cctalk] VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The > Same Fault >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On 10/07/2023 5:35 PM CDT Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > I find this really hard to explain. It can't be the chip selection > > logic because then the addresses 0x2400-0x2407 would also fail and I > > checked the CS signal with the logic analyser just to be sure. I also > > checked the address lines directly on the RAM chip for any stuck bits > > and they seemed fine too. > > > > > > > > What are the chances of two 2114 chips failing at exactly the same addres= s? > > Is there some failure mode I might not be considering? > > > > Rob >=20 > Perhaps it isn't the 2114 or its associated circuit at all. Maybe some oth= er > device is being incorrectly selected by that address and driving (half) the= bus > low? Just a thought. Many thanks for the suggestion. This hadn't crossed my mind, so I checked. Al= l the things that I could identify on the schematic that connect to the bus (= UART, interrupt vector, flag buffer and modem signals) seem not to be enabled= . I have looked at what is sinking the data bus, there is a buffer which seem= s to be OK and the 8251 PIC. The PIC is harder to check but I can see it is n= ot selected and the input pins don=E2=80=99t appear to be shorted. Not really sure what else to consider. >=20 > Will >=20 > If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't > assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless > immensity of the sea. >=20 > Antoine de Saint-Exupery --===============1914872632580051607==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Sun Oct 8 11:35:23 2023 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The Same Fault Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 12:35:05 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <008701d9f9c2$4fc962b0$ef5c2810$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0823986613294792819==" --===============0823986613294792819== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you have one of those eprom programmers which also do device checks ? They might do a check of the supposed faulty ram out of circuit. If you don't have one you could probably write one for any convenient device you have to hand such as an arduino. Exercising the ram with port writes will be painfully slow compared with a normal ram test but with only 2K to test it shouldn't take too long. On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 9:35=E2=80=AFAM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: wrcooke(a)wrcooke.net > > Sent: 08 October 2023 04:15 > > To: rob(a)jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt via cctalk > > Subject: Re: [cctalk] VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The > > Same Fault > > > > > > > > > On 10/07/2023 5:35 PM CDT Rob Jarratt via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I find this really hard to explain. It can't be the chip selection > > > logic because then the addresses 0x2400-0x2407 would also fail and I > > > checked the CS signal with the logic analyser just to be sure. I also > > > checked the address lines directly on the RAM chip for any stuck bits > > > and they seemed fine too. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the chances of two 2114 chips failing at exactly the same > address? > > > Is there some failure mode I might not be considering? > > > > > > Rob > > > > Perhaps it isn't the 2114 or its associated circuit at all. Maybe some > other > > device is being incorrectly selected by that address and driving (half) > the bus > > low? Just a thought. > > Many thanks for the suggestion. This hadn't crossed my mind, so I checked. > All the things that I could identify on the schematic that connect to the > bus (UART, interrupt vector, flag buffer and modem signals) seem not to be > enabled. I have looked at what is sinking the data bus, there is a buffer > which seems to be OK and the 8251 PIC. The PIC is harder to check but I can > see it is not selected and the input pins don=E2=80=99t appear to be shorte= d. > > Not really sure what else to consider. > > > > > Will > > > > If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and > don't > > assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless > > immensity of the sea. > > > > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > --===============0823986613294792819==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Sun Oct 8 11:37:49 2023 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The Same Fault Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 12:37:34 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5093633095808517207==" --===============5093633095808517207== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Another possible approach is to trigger the logic analyser on a write access to that ram address, preferably with the probes on the ram itself. Look at the resulting captures .. does it seem consistent with the code and other accesses ? On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 12:35 PM Adrian Godwin wrote: > Do you have one of those eprom programmers which also do device checks ? > They might do a check of the supposed faulty ram out of circuit. If you > don't have one you could probably write one for any convenient device you > have to hand such as an arduino. Exercising the ram with port writes will > be painfully slow compared with a normal ram test but with only 2K to test > it shouldn't take too long. > > > On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 9:35 AM Rob Jarratt via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: wrcooke(a)wrcooke.net >> > Sent: 08 October 2023 04:15 >> > To: rob(a)jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt via cctalk >> > Subject: Re: [cctalk] VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With >> The >> > Same Fault >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 10/07/2023 5:35 PM CDT Rob Jarratt via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > I find this really hard to explain. It can't be the chip selection >> > > logic because then the addresses 0x2400-0x2407 would also fail and I >> > > checked the CS signal with the logic analyser just to be sure. I also >> > > checked the address lines directly on the RAM chip for any stuck bits >> > > and they seemed fine too. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > What are the chances of two 2114 chips failing at exactly the same >> address? >> > > Is there some failure mode I might not be considering? >> > > >> > > Rob >> > >> > Perhaps it isn't the 2114 or its associated circuit at all. Maybe some >> other >> > device is being incorrectly selected by that address and driving (half) >> the bus >> > low? Just a thought. >> >> Many thanks for the suggestion. This hadn't crossed my mind, so I >> checked. All the things that I could identify on the schematic that connect >> to the bus (UART, interrupt vector, flag buffer and modem signals) seem not >> to be enabled. I have looked at what is sinking the data bus, there is a >> buffer which seems to be OK and the 8251 PIC. The PIC is harder to check >> but I can see it is not selected and the input pins don’t appear to be >> shorted. >> >> Not really sure what else to consider. >> >> > >> > Will >> > >> > If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and >> don't >> > assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the >> endless >> > immensity of the sea. >> > >> > Antoine de Saint-Exupery >> >> --===============5093633095808517207==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Oct 8 13:13:24 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The Same Fault Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 14:13:16 +0100 Message-ID: <009001d9f9e9$33ba64d0$9b2f2e70$@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0050737547078337650==" --===============0050737547078337650== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Adrian, =20 I am not sure if the eprom programmer I have will do what you suggest, I don= =E2=80=99t have an Arduino but I do have a Raspberry Pi that I could probably= employ in testing the RAM. I may look into that. =20 I will look again at the writes. I have seen that the test pattern (0xAA) is = written consistently to many other locations, including some to the seemingly= faulty chip, so it is hard to think how the wrong data may be getting writte= n, but I think I can check this fairly easily just to be sure. =20 Regards =20 Rob =20 From: Adrian Godwin =20 Sent: 08 October 2023 12:38 To: rob(a)jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The= Same Fault =20 Another possible approach is to trigger the logic analyser on a write access = to that ram address, preferably with the probes on the ram itself. Look at th= e resulting captures .. does it seem consistent with the code and other acce= sses ? =20 =20 On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 12:35=E2=80=AFPM Adrian Godwin > wrote: Do you have one of those eprom programmers which also do device checks ? They= might do a check of the supposed faulty ram out of circuit. If you don't hav= e one you could probably write one for any convenient device you have to hand= such as an arduino. Exercising the ram with port writes will be painfully sl= ow compared with a normal ram test but with only 2K to test it shouldn't take= too long. =20 =20 On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 9:35=E2=80=AFAM Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: wrcooke(a)wrcooke.net > > Sent: 08 October 2023 04:15 > To: rob(a)jarratt.me.uk ; Rob Jarratt via ccta= lk > > Subject: Re: [cctalk] VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The > Same Fault >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On 10/07/2023 5:35 PM CDT Rob Jarratt via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > > > I find this really hard to explain. It can't be the chip selection > > logic because then the addresses 0x2400-0x2407 would also fail and I > > checked the CS signal with the logic analyser just to be sure. I also > > checked the address lines directly on the RAM chip for any stuck bits > > and they seemed fine too. > > > > > > > > What are the chances of two 2114 chips failing at exactly the same addres= s? > > Is there some failure mode I might not be considering? > > > > Rob >=20 > Perhaps it isn't the 2114 or its associated circuit at all. Maybe some oth= er > device is being incorrectly selected by that address and driving (half) the= bus > low? Just a thought. Many thanks for the suggestion. This hadn't crossed my mind, so I checked. Al= l the things that I could identify on the schematic that connect to the bus (= UART, interrupt vector, flag buffer and modem signals) seem not to be enabled= . I have looked at what is sinking the data bus, there is a buffer which seem= s to be OK and the 8251 PIC. The PIC is harder to check but I can see it is n= ot selected and the input pins don=E2=80=99t appear to be shorted. Not really sure what else to consider. >=20 > Will >=20 > If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't > assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless > immensity of the sea. >=20 > Antoine de Saint-Exupery --===============0050737547078337650==-- From rodsmallwood52@btinternet.com Mon Oct 9 06:07:49 2023 From: Rod Smallwood To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] List of DEC boards - Offers invited. Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 07:07:42 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3184825347670851313==" --===============3184825347670851313== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi     I have had so many inquiries for the boards on my list its difficult to respond to them all.     Please make an offer for what you want.     Allow an additional minimum of $50 for UK  to US shipping     I'll keep the offer list open for a few days.     Rod Smallwood --===============3184825347670851313==-- From emu@e-bbes.com Mon Oct 9 07:06:05 2023 From: emanuel stiebler To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VT100: Failing 2114 Chip Replaced With One With The Same Fault Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 09:05:54 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <008701d9f9c2$4fc962b0$ef5c2810$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2363889629946595188==" --===============2363889629946595188== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-10-08 10:34, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: >> Perhaps it isn't the 2114 or its associated circuit at all. Maybe some ot= her >> device is being incorrectly selected by that address and driving (half) th= e bus >> low? Just a thought. >=20 > Many thanks for the suggestion. This hadn't crossed my mind, so I checked. = All the things that I could identify on the schematic that connect to the bus= (UART, interrupt vector, flag buffer and modem signals) seem not to be enabl= ed. I have looked at what is sinking the data bus, there is a buffer which se= ems to be OK and the 8251 PIC. The PIC is harder to check but I can see it is= not selected and the input pins don=E2=80=99t appear to be shorted. Put a scope on the data bus. You should see it, if two chips are driving=20 the bus at the same time ... --===============2363889629946595188==-- From organlists1@sonic.net Tue Oct 10 10:08:26 2023 From: "D. Resor" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Obsolete Parts.... Unicorn Electronics Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 03:08:15 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9dc03f07-27e3-4c5f-88b9-a157ba170238@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3048364253841228976==" --===============3048364253841228976== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the circuit I am making repairs two, a BC239 and BC308 are being used to c= ontrol a 3.6v memory battery charge circuit as part of a 1990 Ahlborn-Galanti= digital sampled instrument. I do have the a slightly newer substitute for the BC239. Thanks Don Resor -----Original Message----- From: WEB via cctalk =20 Sent: Friday, October 06, 2023 3:03 AM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: WEB Subject: [cctalk] Re: Obsolete Parts.... Unicorn Electronics On 06.10.2023 03:10, D. Resor via cctalk wrote: > I recently had a need for BC308 transistors. Of course those have=20 > been unobtanium for quite some time. > > My search beyond a distributor then went to eBay where I found Unicorn=20 > Electronics. > > More to the point I see from their website Apple 1, Apple ][ and Apple=20 > 1a Kits along with Apple 1 and Apple II parts are available. > > I thought some here might find this useful. > > https://unicornelectronics.com/ Don, unicorn is known for long for interesting old semiconductors. I have als= o ordered several parts from there, even from Europe which result in rather h= igh shipping and tax costs. Whether the Apple kits are a good deal though, I = have my doubts. The BC308 is the PNP complementary part to the former NPN work horse BC238. B= oth are nowadays difficult to find. However, as they were rather universal ty= pes, you can usually replace them with BC548 (NPN) and BC558 (PNP) today without problems. Holger --===============3048364253841228976==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Oct 13 08:41:23 2023 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:41:11 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <49a020485313de7cd2c846bd94135e5f76e807fa.camel@sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0436647301597648558==" --===============0436647301597648558== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 20 Sep 2023, Van Snyder wrote: > I wonder if Susan Vigor has 727s with her 7094? Probably not. That would be 729 drives (the transistorized successor of the 727). We now have the 727 here (a 727 model III, built in 1957). It is complete and in a very good shape. It only needs some normal cleaning. The belts, the bearings and even the "flappers" (vacuum switches) seem to be fine. Now, the need for 727 manuals has become even bigger :-)) A bit of information can be deduced from reading across the available 727 CE manual, the 753 tape control manual and the 700 series component circuits manual. But they provide only small pieces that don't form the whole, especially not the wiring and module charts. And the interesting part will be to build the DC power supply for the many voltages (-270V, -130V, -60V, +140V, +270V) and the heater supply. And building a tape controller... Christian --===============0436647301597648558==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Oct 13 13:57:07 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:56:54 -0400 Message-ID: <16CE425D-89E1-4A4D-86B9-2BF7620DD35C@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4904480916231393633==" --===============4904480916231393633== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Oct 13, 2023, at 4:41 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: >=20 > ... > And the interesting part will be to build the DC power supply for the many = voltages (-270V, -130V, -60V, +140V, +270V) and the heater supply. A good source for information on how to do that would be an older edition of = the ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook. Those can be found, from used book dealers.= I have a 1954 edition that would do well, though one from the 1960s is like= ly also good (perhaps better since the earlier ones would have vacuum rectifi= ers, which in a newly built supplly isn't optimal). Chances are those voltages don't need to be tightly regulated, not like tryin= g to build a TWT supply... so the main thing is the transformer(s). Those to= o can still be found, or can be built; Hammond (Peter Dahl) is still in that = business. The heater supply is typically just a suitably large 6.3 or 12.6 volt transfo= rmer. paul --===============4904480916231393633==-- From wrcooke@wrcooke.net Fri Oct 13 14:10:55 2023 From: wrcooke@wrcooke.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:10:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1672291909.18348.1697206247181@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <16CE425D-89E1-4A4D-86B9-2BF7620DD35C@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6052725733305512260==" --===============6052725733305512260== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 10/13/2023 8:56 AM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk = wrote: >=20 >=20 > > On Oct 13, 2023, at 4:41 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > >=20 > > ... > > And the interesting part will be to build the DC power supply for the man= y voltages (-270V, -130V, -60V, +140V, +270V) and the heater supply. > A good source for information on how to do that would be an older edition o= f the ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook. Those can be found, from used book dealers= . I have a 1954 edition that would do well, though one from the 1960s is like= ly also good (perhaps better since the earlier ones would have vacuum rectifi= ers, which in a newly built supplly isn't optimal). >=20 Several from the 80s and earlier are available on archive.org: https://archive.org/search?query=3Darrl+handbook&and%5B%5D=3Dmediatype%3A%22t= exts%22 Will If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't a= ssign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless imme= nsity of the sea. Antoine de Saint-Exupery --===============6052725733305512260==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Fri Oct 13 17:07:11 2023 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:07:00 +0000 Message-ID: <004f8fa84e044acdb2c9d9f8b3332821@emeritus-solutions.com> In-Reply-To: <16CE425D-89E1-4A4D-86B9-2BF7620DD35C@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0343875409630895947==" --===============0343875409630895947== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The valve audio afficionados / suppliers also offer both wisdom and component= s, e.g. https://skillbank.co.uk/psu/ and many other sites / blogs https://www.amazon.co.uk/Designing-Power-Supplies-Amplifiers-Second/dp/095615= 4549 https://shop.elsevier.com/books/valve-amplifiers/jones/978-0-08-096640-3 and= many other titles https://www.ampmaker.com/shop/vcb-vvr-voltage-control-kit/ and numerous othe= r kits for worked examples https://www.thatsaudio.co.uk/product-category/valve-amplifier-transformers-ch= okes/amplifier-valves-accessories/power-transformers/ Regulation is typically effected by a high voltage N-fet or similar device se= e e.g. - https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/lnd150# etc etc - https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/snva020 etc etc Martin -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 13 October 2023 14:57 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Paul Koning Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive > On Oct 13, 2023, at 4:41 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: >=20 > ... > And the interesting part will be to build the DC power supply for the many = voltages (-270V, -130V, -60V, +140V, +270V) and the heater supply. A good source for information on how to do that would be an older edition of = the ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook. Those can be found, from used book dealers.= I have a 1954 edition that would do well, though one from the 1960s is like= ly also good (perhaps better since the earlier ones would have vacuum rectifi= ers, which in a newly built supplly isn't optimal). Chances are those voltages don't need to be tightly regulated, not like tryin= g to build a TWT supply... so the main thing is the transformer(s). Those to= o can still be found, or can be built; Hammond (Peter Dahl) is still in that = business. The heater supply is typically just a suitably large 6.3 or 12.6 volt transfo= rmer. paul --===============0343875409630895947==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Oct 13 17:32:14 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:31:44 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004f8fa84e044acdb2c9d9f8b3332821@emeritus-solutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0256111965411655601==" --===============0256111965411655601== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Oct 13, 2023, at 1:07 PM, Martin Bishop wrote: >=20 > The valve audio afficionados / suppliers also offer both wisdom and compone= nts, e.g. >=20 > https://skillbank.co.uk/psu/ and many other sites / blogs >=20 > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Designing-Power-Supplies-Amplifiers-Second/dp/0956= 154549 >=20 > https://shop.elsevier.com/books/valve-amplifiers/jones/978-0-08-096640-3 a= nd many other titles >=20 > https://www.ampmaker.com/shop/vcb-vvr-voltage-control-kit/ and numerous ot= her kits for worked examples >=20 > https://www.thatsaudio.co.uk/product-category/valve-amplifier-transformers-= chokes/amplifier-valves-accessories/power-transformers/ I wonder if makers of ham radio focused products are likely to be more econom= ical. Tube audio has some cult aspects to it, and may have pricing to match.= (Monster Cable comes to mind as an analogous case.) > Regulation is typically effected by a high voltage N-fet or similar device = see e.g. > - https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/lnd150# etc etc > - https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/snva020 etc etc Yes, that works if you need regulated power. You can also use tubes to regul= ate (see the 1967 Handbook on archive.org). That assumes regulation is even = needed, which is not often the case for tube circuits. Also, a simple shunt = regulator is often adequate, either a classic neon tube or a Zener diode (or = a couple in series if you need a higher voltage). I haven't worked with tube computer or logic circuits, but tube circuits in t= ransmitters or receivers are not normally regulated, with the exception of LC= oscillators. For those, a typical design would just use a neon tube shunt r= egulator. paul --===============0256111965411655601==-- From cclist@sydex.com Fri Oct 13 17:45:54 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:45:43 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004f8fa84e044acdb2c9d9f8b3332821@emeritus-solutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0006921214542951355==" --===============0006921214542951355== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/13/23 10:07, Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > Regulation is typically effected by a high voltage N-fet or similar device = see e.g. > - https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/lnd150# etc etc > - https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/snva020 etc etc What, no violet-glow voltage regulator tubes (e.g. VR105)? Horrors! --Chuck --===============0006921214542951355==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Fri Oct 13 17:49:55 2023 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:49:48 +0000 Message-ID: <4fd99e2e68ab40c99f08cd028da1c354@emeritus-solutions.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4651560200859703764==" --===============4651560200859703764== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The cost of implementing a linear regulator will be modest, measured in =C2= =A3s rather than 10's for the components. Much of the actual cost will be in= the pin board layout; FWIW I have found 3 mm PTFE sheet, drilled as required= and fitted with crimp castle posts works nicely. One merit of (wide range) linear regulation is that you can ramp up the power= rail(s) during commissioning / fault finding and possibly release less / no = magic essence. Regarding the audiophile magic products I think due diligence is the way forw= ard. However, fertile ground for 1 April pranks. Martin -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkoning(a)comcast.net]=20 Sent: 13 October 2023 18:32 To: Martin Bishop Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [cctalk] IBM 727 tape drive > On Oct 13, 2023, at 1:07 PM, Martin Bishop wrote: >=20 > The valve audio afficionados / suppliers also offer both wisdom and compone= nts, e.g. >=20 > https://skillbank.co.uk/psu/ and many other sites / blogs >=20 > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Designing-Power-Supplies-Amplifiers-Second/dp/0956= 154549 >=20 > https://shop.elsevier.com/books/valve-amplifiers/jones/978-0-08-096640-3 a= nd many other titles >=20 > https://www.ampmaker.com/shop/vcb-vvr-voltage-control-kit/ and numerous ot= her kits for worked examples >=20 > https://www.thatsaudio.co.uk/product-category/valve-amplifier-transformers-= chokes/amplifier-valves-accessories/power-transformers/ I wonder if makers of ham radio focused products are likely to be more econom= ical. Tube audio has some cult aspects to it, and may have pricing to match.= (Monster Cable comes to mind as an analogous case.) > Regulation is typically effected by a high voltage N-fet or similar device = see e.g. > - https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/lnd150# etc etc > - https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/snva020 etc etc Yes, that works if you need regulated power. You can also use tubes to regul= ate (see the 1967 Handbook on archive.org). That assumes regulation is even = needed, which is not often the case for tube circuits. Also, a simple shunt = regulator is often adequate, either a classic neon tube or a Zener diode (or = a couple in series if you need a higher voltage). I haven't worked with tube computer or logic circuits, but tube circuits in t= ransmitters or receivers are not normally regulated, with the exception of LC= oscillators. For those, a typical design would just use a neon tube shunt r= egulator. paul --===============4651560200859703764==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sat Oct 14 00:57:33 2023 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 727 tape drive Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:57:26 -0500 Message-ID: <19137580-18de-01af-6f61-608f218401f5@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: <004f8fa84e044acdb2c9d9f8b3332821@emeritus-solutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1788868327896164694==" --===============1788868327896164694== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/13/23 12:07, Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > The valve audio afficionados / suppliers also offer both wisdom and compone= nts, e.g. > Ages ago I bought a Potter plug-compatible 9-track tape=20 drive from a surplus shop.=C2=A0 It was designed as a 24xx=20 compatible drive. I was used to Pertec unformatted drives.=C2=A0=20 But, apparently, the IBM 2400-series drives had very minimal=20 logic in them, and fed the analog output from the read amps=20 directly onto the "bus" cable. Pertec unformatted drives=20 convert the analog signals through comparators to set FFs=20 and then produce a trigger pulse that serves as a byte=20 clock.=C2=A0 Making the Potter drive look like a Pertec drive=20 would be a fair bit of circuitry. I assume the 727/729 series was similarly primitive, and=20 would need the same amount of logic to be used. Jon --===============1788868327896164694==-- From erik@baigar.de Sun Oct 15 21:12:23 2023 From: erik@baigar.de To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue... Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:12:19 +0000 Message-ID: <169740433929.4006402.2131774076616694540@classiccmp.org> In-Reply-To: <169602218027.4006402.6357909585239214214@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1045702597893438775==" --===============1045702597893438775== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After some silence I can report SUCCESS on that issue! YEAH! Happy I am: After first repairing the TopMax programmer, digging out my old GALEP3 prgram= mer and building a very special adapter socket for the DS1553, I was able to = have a detailed analysis: (1) The DS1643 and DS1553 chips can stop the oscillator to save some energy w= hen stored away. (2) After attaching a new battery to very old chips (i.e. if battery voltage = goes below ~0.9V) the chips automatically revert to the "oscillator stopped" = condition, even if new battery is connected. (3) So with new DS1553 and old one with new battery connected, the clock is s= topped! (4) The OpenBoot firmware, before powering the screen and running self test, = seems to rely on a running clock, i.e. it is not coming up at all if the osci= llator is stopped!=20 (5) To me that is a bug in the startup code of the UltraBook IIi's firmware -= it does obviously not start the oscillator by itself! After activating the oscillator and clearing my NV-RAM the UltraBook IIi is c= oming up into the OpenBoot Firmware again!!! Lesson for others: If your battery voltage drops below 2V, you will see the "= NVRAM invalid message", but the machine will boot/work. But after some more y= ears when the battery voltage gets low enough for the oscillator to stop you = will run into trouble! Next step will be trying the same on my UltraBook (DS1643 instead of DS1553 o= n the UltraBook IIi). But need to Xray that one first before attaching a new = battery. --===============1045702597893438775==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Oct 15 21:41:35 2023 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue... Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:41:14 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <169740433929.4006402.2131774076616694540@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0608648257438451637==" --===============0608648257438451637== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Next step will be trying the same on my UltraBook (DS1643 instead of DS1553= on the UltraBook IIi). But need to Xray that one first before attaching a ne= w battery. I have a DS1643 replacement prototype if you're interested. Thanks, Jonathan --===============0608648257438451637==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Mon Oct 16 07:47:11 2023 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] IBM 5100 discussion Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 09:46:59 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3939903208783279487==" --===============3939903208783279487== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been pointed to the following discussion https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ibm-5110-initial-info.1224000/page-2 There, voidstar78 was apparently trying to contact me. Since my mail addresses are all functional (noone else had any problem with them, be it my personal or our museum's address), I wonder what he did, and I don't have a gmail address. I'm not on this forum, and I don't want to register to "yet another forum", so I can't even look at the pictures. But it seems to have been an interesting discussion. Pity it wasn't on this list. Christian --===============3939903208783279487==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:14:45 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 5100 discussion Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 04:14:28 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5490562935076120522==" --===============5490562935076120522== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm here (voidstar) :) I think at the time I wasn't aware of cctalk, or it wasn't working for me at the time. This past summer I got to explore the actual original SCAMP! I'm still (slowly) going through the Joe George journals. But one of the most interesting things - I found a reference to PALM as early as 1972! (i.e. a manual similar to your Chapter 2 reference, but written during the SCAMP development - the instruction set was mostly the same, except they did add one instruction later to the IBM 5100; a shift left/rotate I think, I'll have to double check tomorrow) https://voidstar.blog/scamp-a-review-50-years-later/ More recently I've gotten distracted on an almost-working Poly88. It has a chance of working, I feel a pulse in there! After that, I'll get back to the 5100 PALM... I think my most recent 5110 work was a PALM app as follows (which I've probably shared here already) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgeiprqvhZUY Mainly at 1:20 into that video I try to show the extent of audio that we can make a 5110 do. The other features in here are draft ideas to put into a more comprehensive demo (i.e. can do a counter, and those are the set of symbols we have to work with). And the most recent update: a local associate has gotten a disk drive working on his 5110, and demo'd running a football game on that system from BASIC! Looking forward to more titles getting loaded and running, and also hoping we can get a process to get those disk files transferred over to tape (except my 5106 only works on my 5100, turns out it can't work on a 5110!).. so we're thinking if we can get one of the 5103 printers working, we just print the BASIC code out, and I use my "serial typer" to write it back into the other system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsV3NBAmFd8A Alternatively, I'm still learning how to do input/output on those rear-side external pins. -Steve / v* On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 2:47=E2=80=AFAM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have been pointed to the following discussion > > https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ibm-5110-initial-info.1224000/pag= e-2 > > There, voidstar78 was apparently trying to contact me. Since my mail > addresses are all functional (noone else had any problem with them, be it > my personal or our museum's address), I wonder what he did, and I don't > have a gmail address. > I'm not on this forum, and I don't want to register to "yet another > forum", so I can't even look at the pictures. But it seems to have been an > interesting discussion. Pity it wasn't on this list. > > Christian > --===============5490562935076120522==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Mon Oct 16 15:26:04 2023 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 5100 discussion Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 10:25:52 -0500 Message-ID: <7fdf6e1c-77ce-abef-dd85-188d7e415484@jwsss.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4716702301238593329==" --===============4716702301238593329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/16/23 04:14, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > I'm here (voidstar) =F0=9F=98=84 I think at the time I wasn't aware of cct= alk, or it > wasn't working for me at the time. The fellow who did this got into a lot of trouble, as they also did the=20 XT/370 and PC/370, and later the 390 PCI and MC boards. I have contact with the leader of the latter group.=C2=A0 I think he's still = there, but haven't chatted in about a year. thanks Jim --===============4716702301238593329==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Tue Oct 17 08:32:17 2023 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 5100 discussion Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:32:06 +0200 Message-ID: <1814ee5a-4eb7-31d8-5ff7-fdc925e4ddf9@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> In-Reply-To: <7fdf6e1c-77ce-abef-dd85-188d7e415484@jwsss.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6228634725322898442==" --===============6228634725322898442== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 16 Oct 2023, jim stephens wrote: > On 10/16/23 04:14, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: >> I'm here (voidstar) ? I think at the time I wasn't aware of cctalk, or it >> wasn't working for me at the time. > The fellow who did this got into a lot of trouble, as they also did the > XT/370 and PC/370, and later the 390 PCI and MC boards. ???? Christian --===============6228634725322898442==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 03:06:03 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] M7846 RX11 Unibus floppy controller board documentation? Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:05:41 +0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6470124667556159827==" --===============6470124667556159827== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was unable to locate schematics and/or a maintenance manual for the Unibus M7846 RX11 floppy controller board. If anyone has these could you please scan them and make them available. Thank you. Tom --===============6470124667556159827==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Wed Oct 18 07:41:37 2023 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: M7846 RX11 Unibus floppy controller board documentation? Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 09:41:24 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7333037255744660021==" --===============7333037255744660021== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 18 Oct 2023, Tom Hunter wrote: > I was unable to locate schematics and/or a maintenance manual for the > Unibus M7846 RX11 floppy controller board. On our FTP server ;-) ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dec/pdp11/RX11_EngineeringDr= awings_13Jun1975.pdf Christian --===============7333037255744660021==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 10:38:26 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: M7846 RX11 Unibus floppy controller board documentation? Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:38:02 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4238821660524723389==" --===============4238821660524723389== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Christian !!! Best regards Tom On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 3:41=E2=80=AFPM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023, Tom Hunter wrote: > > I was unable to locate schematics and/or a maintenance manual for the > > Unibus M7846 RX11 floppy controller board. > > On our FTP server ;-) > > > ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dec/pdp11/RX11_Engineering= Drawings_13Jun1975.pdf > > > Christian > --===============4238821660524723389==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 13:56:22 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 15:56:05 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7540826673763860593==" --===============7540826673763860593== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) PDP11. A. --===============7540826673763860593==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 14:01:07 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:00:49 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0649269877992785519==" --===============0649269877992785519== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hello all, > > does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) > PDP11. > Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What hardware are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install 3.1 (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. -Henry --===============0649269877992785519==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 14:16:45 2023 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:16:30 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6040716845361421970==" --===============6040716845361421970== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> Hello all, >> >> does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) >> PDP11. >> >=20 > Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What hardware > are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install 3.1 > (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with Ultrix-11. bill --===============6040716845361421970==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 14:21:00 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:20:43 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55808C7A98CAA0969D4699BEEDD5A=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0305077550382754035==" --===============0305077550382754035== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:16, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Hello all, > >> > >> does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based > (11/73) > >> PDP11. > >> > > > > Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What > hardware > > are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install > 3.1 > > (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. > > PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with > Ultrix-11. > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does not work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with Ultrix-11's drivers. -Henry --===============0305077550382754035==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Wed Oct 18 14:32:24 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:32:15 -0400 Message-ID: <28D47B4E-848D-4728-AFAB-0BBE9ECDDAED@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3613666919019051471==" --===============3613666919019051471== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Oct 18, 2023, at 10:20 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:16, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hello all, >>>>=20 >>>> does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based >> (11/73) >>>> PDP11. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What >> hardware >>> are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install >> 3.1 >>> (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. >>=20 >> PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with >> Ultrix-11. >>=20 >=20 > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does not > work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not > necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with > Ultrix-11's drivers. There are two possible issues. One is that SCSI is a packet oriented storage= command/response system similar to MSCP but different. So the kind of contr= ollers Bill mentioned are essentiallly translators between the two protocols.= =20 If what you have is a native SCSI controller -- one that exposes the actual S= CSI commands -- then that requires an entirely different driver because that = isn't MSCP. If you have an MSCP translator type controller, but the translation is poorly= done, you might end up with it failing for some operating systems. That's n= ot too unlikely given that the MSCP spec was for a long time a DEC confidenti= al document, so third parties had to reverse engineer things (and dodge DEC l= awyers). paul --===============3613666919019051471==-- From vaxorcist@googlemail.com Wed Oct 18 16:21:24 2023 From: Hans-Ulrich =?utf-8?q?H=C3=B6lscher?= To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:21:06 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <28D47B4E-848D-4728-AFAB-0BBE9ECDDAED@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4437054860850976970==" --===============4437054860850976970== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The EMULEX UC07 SCSI Adapter manual ( http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/UC0751001-F_UC07_Feb90.pdf) says: "Ultrix-11 V3.0 and above" Ulli Am Mi., 18. Okt. 2023 um 16:32 Uhr schrieb Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>: > > > > On Oct 18, 2023, at 10:20 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:16, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk < > >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello all, > >>>> > >>>> does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based > >> (11/73) > >>>> PDP11. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What > >> hardware > >>> are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install > >> 3.1 > >>> (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. > >> > >> PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with > >> Ultrix-11. > >> > > > > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does > not > > work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not > > necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with > > Ultrix-11's drivers. > > There are two possible issues. One is that SCSI is a packet oriented > storage command/response system similar to MSCP but different. So the kind > of controllers Bill mentioned are essentiallly translators between the two > protocols. > > If what you have is a native SCSI controller -- one that exposes the > actual SCSI commands -- then that requires an entirely different driver > because that isn't MSCP. > > If you have an MSCP translator type controller, but the translation is > poorly done, you might end up with it failing for some operating systems. > That's not too unlikely given that the MSCP spec was for a long time a DEC > confidential document, so third parties had to reverse engineer things (and > dodge DEC lawyers). > > paul > > --===============4437054860850976970==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 18:27:05 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] PDP11 Dilog SQ706a SCSI Controller Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 20:26:49 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8684743869581014167==" --===============8684743869581014167== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, are there some experiences to install as well as to configure a Dilog SQ706a QBus SCSI controller in a PDP11/73 successfully? The controller in question is working properly, that's executing the self as well as the host DMA connection tests successfully. The format procedure of a physical and of an emulated SCSI drive will be executed with success also. But how to configure the Dilog SQ706a as well as the 11/73 properly, so that the SCSI drive can be accessed as DU0. I'm using an SCSI RSX image on a ZULU SCSI emulator inherited from an 11/73 running successfully using a native DEC SCSI controller. I don't find any successful procedure on the web beside the manuals on bitsavers, which only can be seen as examples. A. --===============8684743869581014167==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Wed Oct 18 19:26:51 2023 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 Dilog SQ706a SCSI Controller Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 15:18:30 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8564438266491889472==" --===============8564438266491889472== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/18/2023 2:26 PM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: I think you have to look at how the ZULU SCSI emulator is setup.  There you will be able to map the RSX image to unit #0, which would appear as DU0. It maybe that the RSX image is meant to boot from some other unit, say DU4.  Its possible you can't boot it from DU0. There is a manual for the Dilog controller in bitsavers, it appears you can attach a terminal to the board to configure it. What native DEC SCSI controller? RQZX1? > Hello all, > > are there some experiences to install as well as to configure a Dilog > SQ706a QBus SCSI controller in a PDP11/73 successfully? > > The controller in question is working properly, that's executing the self > as well as the host DMA connection tests successfully. > > The format procedure of a physical and of an emulated SCSI drive will be > executed with success also. > > But how to configure the Dilog SQ706a as well as the 11/73 properly, so > that the SCSI drive can be accessed as DU0. > > I'm using an SCSI RSX image on a ZULU SCSI emulator inherited from an 11/73 > running successfully using a native DEC SCSI controller. > > I don't find any successful procedure on the web beside the manuals on > bitsavers, which only can be seen as examples. > > A. --===============8564438266491889472==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 20:13:33 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 Dilog SQ706a SCSI Controller Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:13:15 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8518181188897435066==" --===============8518181188897435066== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 14:27, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hello all, > > are there some experiences to install as well as to configure a Dilog > SQ706a QBus SCSI controller in a PDP11/73 successfully? > > The controller in question is working properly, that's executing the self > as well as the host DMA connection tests successfully. > > The format procedure of a physical and of an emulated SCSI drive will be > executed with success also. > > But how to configure the Dilog SQ706a as well as the 11/73 properly, so > that the SCSI drive can be accessed as DU0. > > I'm using an SCSI RSX image on a ZULU SCSI emulator inherited from an 11/73 > running successfully using a native DEC SCSI controller. > > I don't find any successful procedure on the web beside the manuals on > bitsavers, which only can be seen as examples. > > A. > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/SQ706A/2120-0184-E_SQ706A_Jan90.pdf and/or http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/SQ706A/SQ706A_SCSI_MSCP_Disk_Controller_Oct89.= pdf should give you what you need for setup. It looks like the controller maps SCSI devices as-is to MSCP devices, so you'll probably want to set up your SCSI emulator with the geometry from a DEC drive that Ultrix-11 understands - I believe that 3.1 has built-in support for the RA60, RA80, and RA81 - so as to avoid having to specify a custom drive type. This also means that you could do an installation in SIMH to the disk of your choice, and then copy that disk image to the SCSI emulator's disk. There isn't really going to be a hand-holding walkthrough for this, if that's what you're looking for. https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Fred-Ultrix3/setup-3.1.txt will walk you through the basics of installing Ultrix. I'd suggest getting SIMH setup to match your hardware as closely as possible, install Ultrix-11 on that, get comfortable using it, and only then worry about moving it to real hardware. If you have specific questions we can certainly try to answer them, but there isn't going to be a walkthrough to install Ultrix on your particular hardware setup, and certainly not one to walk you through setting up the Dilog board. -Henry --===============8518181188897435066==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Wed Oct 18 22:17:16 2023 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Livestream 10/21/23 - Liza Loop, Byron Stout, Wil Lindsay & Jim Hall - VCF's YouTube channel Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:16:54 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8257296261331068058==" --===============8257296261331068058== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This Saturday, Oct. 21, 2023 at 6:30PM EDT, we will livestream to VCF's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/@vcfederation) a talk with Liza Loop, Byron Stout, Wil Lindsay and Jim Hall. We will be talking about Educating today's children with vintage computers. We will take questions from the chat part of YouTube. Future livestreams: 11/4 - Jim Hall - Linux like Unix 11/11 - Liza Loop, Cynthia Solomon, Brian Silverman & Margaret Morabito - Educating students with vintage computers over the decades. I hope to see you there! --===============8257296261331068058==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Wed Oct 18 23:38:52 2023 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:38:34 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <28D47B4E-848D-4728-AFAB-0BBE9ECDDAED@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1289747508086792876==" --===============1289747508086792876== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 7:32=E2=80=AFAM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > If you have an MSCP translator type controller, but the translation is poor= ly done, you might end up with it failing for some operating systems. That's= not too unlikely given that the MSCP spec was for a long time a DEC confiden= tial document, so third parties had to reverse engineer things (and dodge DEC= lawyers). > > paul I have at least one third-party vendor QBUS MSCP SCSI controller which has a sticker on the PCB which says "Licensed under U.S. Letters Patent 4,449,182" Which is of course the DEC MSCP patent: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dsa/mscp/MSCP_Patent_4449182.pdf So I guess at least in that case the vendor did play along with DEC lawyers. --===============1289747508086792876==-- From useddec@gmail.com Thu Oct 19 01:56:41 2023 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 20:56:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5748166262657034878==" --===============5748166262657034878== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am working on a deal which includes several PDP11/15 or 20s. I will be looking at them next week and hope to get more details. I will look for exact model numbers and configuration.At least 2 of them have non DEC silkscreens on the front panel. Also a selection of 11/05 and 11/10 including 5 1/4 box, BA11-D, and BA11-K units. If you are interested in a box or parts please email me off list. Thanks, Paul --===============5748166262657034878==-- From jacob.ritorto@gmail.com Thu Oct 19 01:58:49 2023 From: Jacob Ritorto To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 21:58:42 -0400 Message-ID: <0926F343-3C23-4453-A425-1D5F8E2DB3C8@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6154817394129806957==" --===============6154817394129806957== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Oct 18, 2023, at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFHello all, >=20 > does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) > PDP11. >=20 > A. I have sitting in front of me a PDP-11/83 running ULTRIX-11 v3.1 on MSCP SC= SI via the CMD CQD-200 controller. It=E2=80=99s working beautifully for me, p= ointed at a SCSI2SD with =E2=80=9Cdrives=E2=80=9D around the size of an RA81. I just installed it last week from a replica original distro tape I made. = Happy to send the image to you. You can boot the generic kernel and run /.se= tup/setup to reconfigure it to your hardware needs, recompile kernel, etc. If you have the means to use it, I could also make you a physical distribut= ion tape so you can experience a real virgin install in all its proper glory.= =20 =E2=80=94Jake West Bridgewater, Pennsylvania --===============6154817394129806957==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Thu Oct 19 15:15:39 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] gunkies.org - ultrix-11 installation example ... Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 17:15:22 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6471275884686194980==" --===============6471275884686194980== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, is there any source known how and where to get the floppy images used in the Ultrix-11 installation example? Best regards --===============6471275884686194980==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Thu Oct 19 16:42:22 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: gunkies.org - ultrix-11 installation example ... Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:42:02 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6958997833547357465==" --===============6958997833547357465== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, we'll start with the basics. Download http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp11/magtapes/ultrix-11/Ultrix11-install.t= ap.gz . This is a pre-formatted tape made for use in SIMH. Make a reasonable pdp11.ini; mine looks like: -- set cpu 4M set cpu idle set tq0 lock att tq0 Ultrix11-install.tap set tq1 dis set tq2 dis set tq3 dis set rl dis set rp dis set rq0 rd54 att rq0 rd54-0.dsk set rq1 dis set rq2 dis set rq3 dis set xq type=3Ddeqna ;attach to whatever device you have... -- run "boot tq" and then you should be at the point where you can follow the instructions from https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Fred-Ultrix3/setup-3.1.txt Now for the more advanced stuff: I had a recollection of having problems with installing Ultrix 3.1 on RA disks so I went back through the install procedure and confirmed this - the installer creates a /usr partition that is too small to hold the initial dump from the install tape. So if you're going to install on a simulator the drive should be an RD series. Ironically the RD31 gets the largest /usr partition. I don't know how much testing this distribution got, or who it was marketed to - I would be very interested to hear reports of it being used in the field. -Henry On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 11:15, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hello all, > > is there any source known how and where to get the floppy images used in > the Ultrix-11 installation example? > > Best regards > --===============6958997833547357465==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Thu Oct 19 20:47:20 2023 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: gunkies.org - ultrix-11 installation example ... Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 16:39:24 -0400 Message-ID: <4fd503f9-633a-4932-a3f1-81a3f2cbd45f@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0220405974982780192==" --===============0220405974982780192== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, they're on my web server https://www.crystel.com/pdp/os. Use the .img ones for a Gotek, .imd ones to make floppies with teledisk or whatever it was. CZ On 10/19/2023 11:15 AM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hello all, > > is there any source known how and where to get the floppy images used in > the Ultrix-11 installation example? > > Best regards --===============0220405974982780192==-- From linimon@portsmon.org Fri Oct 20 00:02:28 2023 From: Mark Linimon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 18:48:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1096063744.1455418.1697759290777@privateemail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2894692152399609979==" --===============2894692152399609979== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have nostalgia for t= he first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. mcl --===============2894692152399609979==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 02:10:57 2023 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Tandy Model 6000 w/XENIX Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:10:37 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1811957915606456017==" --===============1811957915606456017== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there anywhere I could go where people who are playing with this system hang out? I used to have a couple of very early Model 16's and ran Xenix on them. I also worked with a couple of 6000's in a real production environment. Lately I got interested again and found an emulator that does a real good job and a bunch of rather interesting software for it. Some that wasn't around when I was doing this for a job. In one case, the package has a note that while it installs they couldn't get into it because the first thing it did was ask for username and password. Well, I figured out how to get into it and maybe there are others interested. It's nice to be able to see how real work was done back in the day. I have always wished some of the production software for the PDP-11 had survived, but at least this is a start. bill --===============1811957915606456017==-- From brain@jbrain.com Fri Oct 20 03:55:11 2023 From: Jim Brain To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tandy Model 6000 w/XENIX Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:50:01 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55804F9822771FA4F9315ED3EDDBA=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7152040083412406004==" --===============7152040083412406004== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/19/2023 9:10 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > Is there anywhere I could go where people who are playing with > this system hang out?  I used to have a couple of very early > Model 16's and ran Xenix on them.  I also worked with a couple > of 6000's in a real production environment.  Lately I got interested > again and found an emulator that does a real good job and a > bunch of rather interesting software for it.  Some that wasn't > around when I was doing this for a job.  In one case, the package > has a note that while it installs they couldn't get into it because > the first thing it did was ask for username and password.  Well, I > figured out how to get into it and maybe there are others interested. > It's nice to be able to see how real work was done back in the day. > I have always wished some of the production software for the PDP-11 > had survived, but at least this is a start. > > bill I know Discord is held in contempt in these parts, but.... https://discord.gg/pRPdatRA4Z Jim -- Jim Brain brain(a)jbrain.com www.jbrain.com --===============7152040083412406004==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 06:35:54 2023 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 02:35:36 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1096063744.1455418.1697759290777@privateemail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6415790861728483721==" --===============6415790861728483721== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a few systems in rough shape, and need parts. Let me know what you find, i am interested. I mainly run my unibus 11/34 systems, but i have a few q bus syatems in need of parts and repair. Thanks, Devin D. On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:02 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote: > I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have nostalgia > for the first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. > > mcl > --===============6415790861728483721==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 08:57:33 2023 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 04:59:02 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6527001659301426735==" --===============6527001659301426735== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of backplanes available? On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 2:35 AM devin davison via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have a few systems in rough shape, and need parts. Let me know what you > find, i am interested. I mainly run my unibus 11/34 systems, but i have a > few q bus syatems in need of parts and repair. > > Thanks, > > Devin D. > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:02 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have nostalgia > > for the first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. > > > > mcl > > > --===============6527001659301426735==-- From useddec@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 08:58:27 2023 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:58:11 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6759310059488124585==" --===============6759310059488124585== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Devin, I'm up for a few minutes now, or call me after 7 or so any night. Paul On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 1:35 AM devin davison via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have a few systems in rough shape, and need parts. Let me know what you > find, i am interested. I mainly run my unibus 11/34 systems, but i have a > few q bus syatems in need of parts and repair. > > Thanks, > > Devin D. > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:02 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have nostalgia > > for the first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. > > > > mcl > > > --===============6759310059488124585==-- From useddec@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 09:00:49 2023 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 04:00:35 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8414604020081906219==" --===============8414604020081906219== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I might. Do you need the boards also? I'm up now if you want to call. Paul 217 766 7690 On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:58 AM Michael Thompson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is > the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of backplanes > available? > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 2:35 AM devin davison via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I have a few systems in rough shape, and need parts. Let me know what you > > find, i am interested. I mainly run my unibus 11/34 systems, but i have a > > few q bus syatems in need of parts and repair. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devin D. > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:02 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have nostalgia > > > for the first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. > > > > > > mcl > > > > > > --===============8414604020081906219==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Fri Oct 20 10:09:26 2023 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Fw: Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 10:09:11 +0000 Message-ID: <45890592.135569.1697796551332@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <2015525824.89492.1697772543463@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3387025854035908118==" --===============3387025854035908118== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sent from AOL on Android=20 =20 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "ED SHARPE" To:= "linimon(a)portsmon.org" , "Ed Sharpe" Cc: "Mark Linimon" Sent: Thu, Oct 19, 2023= at 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more I= have one pdp 11/20=C2=A0 aith procesdor abd=C2=A0 ore untested in the garage= have not taken=C2=A0 for display at our museum. If you had something we like= dre it could be yours Want hp 3000 series 2 or 3 Hp 2883 or 2884 disc or 2888 disc=C2=A0 (plus some other stuff) A nice large early stash of historic semiconductors=C2=A0 Early wireless( as in radio no routers!)=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anything related to mccarty wireless telephone of San Francisco=C2=A0 Related things to Francis or Ignatius mccarty ERly DeForest=C2=A0 radio equipment. Exotic hp computers=C2=A0 There us a few areas Nike missile=C2=A0 Related hardware etc Thanks ed sharpe archivist f or smecc museum Sent from AOL on Android=20 =20 On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:02 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote: I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have= nostalgia for the first machine I used at university.=C2=A0 So I have to ask. mcl =20 =20 --===============3387025854035908118==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Fri Oct 20 16:11:49 2023 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 11:11:42 -0500 Message-ID: <058c55cb-55b4-8a56-0f6c-f367d863659f@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7788528478780542866==" --===============7788528478780542866== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/20/23 03:59, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: > The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is > the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of backplanes > available? > I have a DD11-PK backplane (Part No. 70-11523) with a few bent pins.  None are bent so badly they can't be straightened.  From 11/04 or 11/34.  Free if you pay shipping. Jon --===============7788528478780542866==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 16:47:10 2023 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 12:46:51 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <058c55cb-55b4-8a56-0f6c-f367d863659f@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6253560261887765610==" --===============6253560261887765610== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:11 PM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 10/20/23 03:59, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: > > The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is > > the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of backplanes > > available? > > > I have a DD11-PK backplane (Part No. 70-11523) with a few > bent pins. None are bent so badly they can't be > straightened. From 11/04 or 11/34. Free if you pay shipping. DD11-PK is for 11/34 (top two slots for CPU). PDP-11/04 uses standard DD11-DK (single-board CPU, doesn't need special slots). The 11/20 is entirely different. It has three 4-slot backplanes for CPU boards with "random" wiring and Unibus out on AB of final slot. It would be unusual but not impossible to see the 11/20 CPU backplane assembly outside of a BA11-C cabinet. If one had 12 DEC backplane blocks, one could make a replacement but it would be quite an undertaking. Might be easier to make a PCB-based replacement with modern connectors. Could also upgrade power input scheme while at it. -ethan --===============6253560261887765610==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 17:28:22 2023 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 13:28:05 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6437276065798523173==" --===============6437276065798523173== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 10:21 AM Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does not > work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not > necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with > Ultrix-11's drivers. I have personally installed 2.9BSD on an 11/24 with RL11 and RL02 so I _know_ that works (and I would expect the DQ614 to work there too). I have a DQ614 but the Rodime drive that came with it was toast and I only recently got the RT11 utility to fiddle drives so I haven't ever tried to use mine. I may end up tossing an ST225 or ST241 on my DQ614 when I get around to trying it. I do not know what drives Ultrix-11 supports but it wouldn't be shocking to find that you can't use an RL02 as the root install device. An RL02 was only big enough for the base install of 2.9BSD and not big enough for base+sources so I was never able to rebuild my kernel (it all worked fine on an RK07 at work). In the past, I never did anything with 2.11BSD or Ultrix-11 because I didn't have a new enough setup (most of my gear came from the 70s and early 80s - no J-11 anywhere until recently). As mentioned, if it's a well-implemented MSCP SCSI controller (UC07, CQD220...), it should "just work" on any system there are MSCP drivers for. Cheers, -ethan --===============6437276065798523173==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 17:47:00 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 13:46:43 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2991026755523475148==" --===============2991026755523475148== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 13:28, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 10:21 AM Henry Bent via cctalk > wrote: > > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does > not > > work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not > > necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with > > Ultrix-11's drivers. > > I do not know what drives Ultrix-11 supports but it wouldn't be > shocking to find that you can't use an RL02 as the root install > device. An RL02 was only big enough for the base install of 2.9BSD > and not big enough for base+sources so I was never able to rebuild my > kernel (it all worked fine on an RK07 at work). > I have a SIMH installation of Ultrix-11 3.1 on RL02 drives. Two RL02s is enough for a base system and four (which would be what the DQ614 provides, if it worked) would be more than enough for sources and work, etc. The Ultrix-11 RL driver does fancy things with overlapped seeks that I'm sure works on real hardware but on the DQ614, not so much. -Henry --===============2991026755523475148==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Fri Oct 20 18:05:59 2023 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 14:05:42 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4672793879991330579==" --===============4672793879991330579== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 1:46=E2=80=AFPM Henry Bent = wrote: > I have a SIMH installation of Ultrix-11 3.1 on RL02 drives. Two RL02s is e= nough for a base system and four (which would be what the DQ614 provides, if = it worked) would be more than enough for sources and work, etc. Yes. 40MB should be plenty of room. 10MB was definitely not enough for 2.9BSD, but at the time, I only had one RL02 drive. > The Ultrix-11 RL driver does fancy things with overlapped seeks that I'm su= re works on real hardware but on the DQ614, not so much. Ah... I can see that. It wouldn't surprise me if the DQ614 got most of its development and testing with RT-11 in mind, and possibly some RSX-11. I remember that the DEC RL controller (at least for PDP-11, not as sure about the RL8A) did support some pretty handy things for a multi-user OS, like overlapping seek, but I think in all the years I worked with DEC gear, only a few machines had multiple RL drives. Mostly I saw them as data transfer devices or for primary storage on small (single-user) systems. We did have one larger system, an 11/24 with four RL02, running RSTS/E and whatever we were using for accounting software. I didn't work on the machine myself except to physically disconnect and pack and move it from one site to another when we consolidated our operations back into one building. -ethan --===============4672793879991330579==-- From cramcram@gmail.com Sat Oct 21 07:55:06 2023 From: Marc Howard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:40:28 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7730628225937102849==" --===============7730628225937102849== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have a PDP-11/40 that I've wanted to restore for many years now. I got it in the standard 21" cabinet but the power supplies were in a cardboard box. I'm not certain how the power supply bundle mounts in the cab. Also I'm missing the power supply cables. Do they use currently available Molex connectors? Could someone on the list perhaps take a picture or two to show me how the supplies are supposed to mount in the rack? Also, a shot of the power cable routing would help. Thanks, Marc Howard --===============7730628225937102849==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Oct 21 13:03:19 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:03:00 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1118911274318316709==" --===============1118911274318316709== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vintagecomputer.net/digital/ hunt around there many pics of the power supplies, various configurations. On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 3:55 AM Marc Howard via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > > I have a PDP-11/40 that I've wanted to restore for many years now. I got > it in the standard 21" cabinet but the power supplies were in a cardboard > box. I'm not certain how the power supply bundle mounts in the cab. Also > I'm missing the power supply cables. Do they use currently available Molex > connectors? > > Could someone on the list perhaps take a picture or two to show me how the > supplies are supposed to mount in the rack? Also, a shot of the power > cable routing would help. > > Thanks, > > Marc Howard > --===============1118911274318316709==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sat Oct 21 16:16:59 2023 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0448924150709681461==" --===============0448924150709681461== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/20/23 11:46, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:11 PM Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: >> On 10/20/23 03:59, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: >>> The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is >>> the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of backplanes >>> available? >>> >> I have a DD11-PK backplane (Part No. 70-11523) with a few >> bent pins. None are bent so badly they can't be >> straightened. From 11/04 or 11/34. Free if you pay shipping. > DD11-PK is for 11/34 (top two slots for CPU). PDP-11/04 uses standard > DD11-DK (single-board CPU, doesn't need special slots). > > The 11/20 is entirely different. It has three 4-slot backplanes for > CPU boards with "random" wiring and Unibus out on AB of final slot. > Right.  I was just noting that I had this backplane available, if anyone needed it. Jon --===============0448924150709681461==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Sat Oct 21 16:42:10 2023 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:42:03 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6476167732188516539==" --===============6476167732188516539== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Interesting. Would a DD11-PK be usable as a normal Unibus/SPC backplane for a 11/05? I do need one but I'm not sure if the PK has a true "Unibus in" on say slot 2 that I could put a jumper into from the 11/05's backplane. Anyone know? C On 10/21/2023 12:16 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 10/20/23 11:46, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:11 PM Jon Elson via cctalk >> wrote: >>> On 10/20/23 03:59, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: >>>> The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it >>>> needs is >>>> the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of >>>> backplanes >>>> available? >>>> >>> I have a DD11-PK backplane (Part No. 70-11523) with a few >>> bent pins.  None are bent so badly they can't be >>> straightened.  From 11/04 or 11/34.  Free if you pay shipping. >> DD11-PK is for 11/34 (top two slots for CPU).  PDP-11/04 uses standard >> DD11-DK (single-board CPU, doesn't need special slots). >> >> The 11/20 is entirely different.  It has three 4-slot backplanes for >> CPU boards with "random" wiring and Unibus out on AB of final slot. >> > Right.  I was just noting that I had this backplane available, if > anyone needed it. > > Jon > --===============6476167732188516539==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Oct 21 17:37:25 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 13:37:06 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9085140392353135129==" --===============9085140392353135129== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is one where I put the H742 on a block to make it easier to work on https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/H742_on_blocks.jpg Here are the connectors to the regulators: https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_DC-pwr-supplies.jpg Here is the other end of the connectors https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_fan_view.JPG Plenty more pics here https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/ This is an abridged guide I made that's specific to the PDP 11/40, which I used a lot https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP-11_Mainframe_Troubleshooting_Guide_De= c76.pdf I have a few other 11/40's that I have worked on, with separate pictures, but the above is a good start. Bill On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 9:03=E2=80=AFAM Bill Degnan = wrote: > Vintagecomputer.net/digital/ hunt around there many pics of the power > supplies, various configurations. > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 3:55 AM Marc Howard via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have a PDP-11/40 that I've wanted to restore for many years now. I got >> it in the standard 21" cabinet but the power supplies were in a cardboard >> box. I'm not certain how the power supply bundle mounts in the cab. Also >> I'm missing the power supply cables. Do they use currently available >> Molex >> connectors? >> >> Could someone on the list perhaps take a picture or two to show me how the >> supplies are supposed to mount in the rack? Also, a shot of the power >> cable routing would help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Marc Howard >> > --===============9085140392353135129==-- From kirkbdavis@me.com Sun Oct 22 00:26:38 2023 From: Kirk Davis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 17:21:10 -0700 Message-ID: <63B5BB35-6266-41B1-B016-D58C8CD6C9BB@me.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2924047826852542095==" --===============2924047826852542095== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a 11/35 buried in my garage. Contact me off list if you=E2=80=99re una= ble to find what you need and I=E2=80=99ll get you some pictures.=20 Kirk Sent from my iPad > On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:55=E2=80=AFAM, Marc Howard via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFHi, >=20 > I have a PDP-11/40 that I've wanted to restore for many years now. I got > it in the standard 21" cabinet but the power supplies were in a cardboard > box. I'm not certain how the power supply bundle mounts in the cab. Also > I'm missing the power supply cables. Do they use currently available Molex > connectors? >=20 > Could someone on the list perhaps take a picture or two to show me how the > supplies are supposed to mount in the rack? Also, a shot of the power > cable routing would help. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Marc Howard --===============2924047826852542095==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Oct 22 01:24:11 2023 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:23:55 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7044461377691763019==" --===============7044461377691763019== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The DD11-PK is used only on the 11/04 and 11/34. The 11/05 had 4 dedicated backplanes to use. Pick the one you want to match the configuration you need. Paul On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 11:42 AM Chris Zach via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Interesting. Would a DD11-PK be usable as a normal Unibus/SPC backplane > for a 11/05? I do need one but I'm not sure if the PK has a true "Unibus > in" on say slot 2 that I could put a jumper into from the 11/05's > backplane. > > Anyone know? > C > > On 10/21/2023 12:16 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > > On 10/20/23 11:46, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:11 PM Jon Elson via cctalk > >> wrote: > >>> On 10/20/23 03:59, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: > >>>> The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it > >>>> needs is > >>>> the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of > >>>> backplanes > >>>> available? > >>>> > >>> I have a DD11-PK backplane (Part No. 70-11523) with a few > >>> bent pins. None are bent so badly they can't be > >>> straightened. From 11/04 or 11/34. Free if you pay shipping. > >> DD11-PK is for 11/34 (top two slots for CPU). PDP-11/04 uses standard > >> DD11-DK (single-board CPU, doesn't need special slots). > >> > >> The 11/20 is entirely different. It has three 4-slot backplanes for > >> CPU boards with "random" wiring and Unibus out on AB of final slot. > >> > > Right. I was just noting that I had this backplane available, if > > anyone needed it. > > > > Jon > > > --===============7044461377691763019==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Sun Oct 22 08:27:51 2023 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:00:21 -0400 Message-ID: <2e9a6ba6-fbdb-49ad-82d6-1669f11920c4@beaker.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2552573173189246735==" --===============2552573173189246735== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_DC-pwr-supplies.jpg That brings up a question that's rattled around my mind: On a 745 it's rated to supply -15 volts at 10a, but it has two of the lines designated as "+15 in". Where did the +15 come from, the other supplies put out +20, +5, and -5? Or does it put out +15 and -15 from the 20 volt AC input? C --===============2552573173189246735==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Oct 22 09:04:01 2023 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 04:03:43 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2e9a6ba6-fbdb-49ad-82d6-1669f11920c4@beaker.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5573595197340618163==" --===============5573595197340618163== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't looked at this in a long time, but I believe the H742 "bulk power supply" puts out a voltage to the regulators to convert to the required voltages. I don't remember what the voltage is. Paul On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 3:27=E2=80=AFAM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > > https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_DC-pwr-supplies.jpg > > That brings up a question that's rattled around my mind: On a 745 it's > rated to supply -15 volts at 10a, but it has two of the lines designated > as "+15 in". Where did the +15 come from, the other supplies put out > +20, +5, and -5? > > Or does it put out +15 and -15 from the 20 volt AC input? > > C > --===============5573595197340618163==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Oct 22 13:09:12 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:08:54 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2e9a6ba6-fbdb-49ad-82d6-1669f11920c4@beaker.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6738303815341307446==" --===============6738303815341307446== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Power 15 vs 20 is detailed in the hardware manual when to use which On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 4:27 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > > https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_DC-pwr-supplies.jpg > > That brings up a question that's rattled around my mind: On a 745 it's > rated to supply -15 volts at 10a, but it has two of the lines designated > as "+15 in". Where did the +15 come from, the other supplies put out > +20, +5, and -5? > > Or does it put out +15 and -15 from the 20 volt AC input? > > C > --===============6738303815341307446==-- From erik@baigar.de Sun Oct 22 19:36:19 2023 From: erik@baigar.de To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue... Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 19:36:15 +0000 Message-ID: <169800337562.4006402.3290260442742033133@classiccmp.org> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CRi04d75Hu8IOPjD6aIL1lJVJ3S6zKUmYrlI6q2M-pPAMLrRvMW?= =?utf-8?q?933Y998fBkW8SSuJFYKsxN7Yd=5FcK1R1JjqqxJnKyyZ3EUbtSUMV130Qk8=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4925816341874970108==" --===============4925816341874970108== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jonathan for the offer. Meanwhile X-rayed the 1643 as well and connect= ed a really big battery. Here again: Had to start the oscillator before the U= ltraBook passed the POST and turned on the display - it is up and running aga= in now - UltraBook and UltraBook IIi restored. So my final report: =20 (1) Failing UltraBooks and UltraBooks IIi can get a "new" NVRAM, but need the= m erazed and the oscillator started. After that, they power up again. (2) The procedure given in the Sun NVRAM-FAQ for using the OpenFirmware to se= t Machine Type 0x80, MAC, HostID and checksum works as given there (using the= mkp command). This information goes into NVRAM adresses 0x1FD9 and following. (3) Also OpenBoot and the command idprom@ can be used to read the information= (again according to the table in the FAQ) from NVRAM.=20 (4) real-machine-type and update-system-idprom are not implemented in the Ult= raBooks and they are not necessary as well (information is written to the NVR= AM immeiately with the mkp command). (5) During booting, Solaris may complain on a wrong date format in the NVRAM = - but this message goes away after time was set using the OS's date command. = (6) The contents of the NVRAM for lower addresses look different between Ultr= aBook and UltraBook IIi, so it does not make sense using NVRAM contents from = one type on the other one (boot order is at 0x2CB for both, but TTY-settings = differ).=20 (7) The Open-Firmware manual lists some interesting additional STOP sequences= on top of STOP-A which may be of help if encountering problems - e.g. for re= setting NVRAM or starting a Forth interpreter on TTYA for debugging of hardwa= re problems - see page 107 in 901-7042. Happy computing and thanks to all who responded or participated in one way or= another... --===============4925816341874970108==-- From perullomark@yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 05:27:39 2023 From: Mark Perullo To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for NORTRONICS Read/Write head for IBM 5100/5110/5106 tape unit Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:36:17 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3351855961891144005==" --===============3351855961891144005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Steve I know this is a year later but I have the Nortronic Read Write hea= ds you were looking for. They are currently on eBay. The listing is below. Ju= st do a search and they will come up.=20 Nortronics Magnetic Head Assembly. NOS Part 9164-0068. Radio Cart Machines.=20 Hope this helps.=20 Mark=20 Sent from my iPhone --===============3351855961891144005==-- From ronstrojnyiii@gmail.com Tue Oct 24 16:00:23 2023 From: Ron Strojny To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 11:00:07 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3086171085064083445==" --===============3086171085064083445== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 20:56 Paul Anderson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I am working on a deal which includes several PDP11/15 or 20s. I will be > looking at them next week and hope to get more details. I will look for > exact model numbers and configuration.At least 2 of them have non DEC > silkscreens on the front panel. > > Also a selection of 11/05 and 11/10 including 5 1/4 box, BA11-D, and BA11-K > units. > > If you are interested in a box or parts please email me off list. > > Thanks, Paul > Hi I’m interested in an 11/20. I would also be interested in seeing some photos of the stuff and a list of items from the lot. You can message me at 708 247 7336 I can also accept calls on this number. Thanks. --===============3086171085064083445==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Tue Oct 24 17:06:28 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: gunkies.org - ultrix-11 installation example ... Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:06:11 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fd503f9-633a-4932-a3f1-81a3f2cbd45f@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5777701055103441758==" --===============5777701055103441758== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Chris, I was successfully able to transfer your floppy images and boot from 001.img using my Gotek What's the difference between 001.img and 001-1.img? Additionally which device I've to choose at the boot command? Trying rx(..,..) I'm getting "not RX50 disk2". Best Andreas On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 10:47 PM Chris Zach via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Yeah, they're on my web server https://www.crystel.com/pdp/os. Use the > .img ones for a Gotek, .imd ones to make floppies with teledisk or > whatever it was. > > CZ > > On 10/19/2023 11:15 AM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > is there any source known how and where to get the floppy images used in > > the Ultrix-11 installation example? > > > > Best regards > --===============5777701055103441758==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Tue Oct 24 17:07:15 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: gunkies.org - ultrix-11 installation example ... Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:07:00 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1922660586094775170==" --===============1922660586094775170== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable of course ... "not RX50 disk" ... On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 7:06=E2=80=AFPM hupfadekroua wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I was successfully able to transfer your floppy images and boot from > 001.img using my Gotek > > What's the difference between 001.img and 001-1.img? > > Additionally which device I've to choose at the boot command? > > Trying rx(..,..) I'm getting "not RX50 disk2". > > Best > > Andreas > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 10:47=E2=80=AFPM Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Yeah, they're on my web server https://www.crystel.com/pdp/os. Use the >> .img ones for a Gotek, .imd ones to make floppies with teledisk or >> whatever it was. >> >> CZ >> >> On 10/19/2023 11:15 AM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: >> > Hello all, >> > >> > is there any source known how and where to get the floppy images used in >> > the Ultrix-11 installation example? >> > >> > Best regards >> > --===============1922660586094775170==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Tue Oct 24 17:17:33 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: gunkies.org - ultrix-11 installation example ... Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:17:17 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0116751465046037718==" --===============0116751465046037718== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Gotek is DU1 On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 7:07=E2=80=AFPM hupfadekroua wrote: > of course ... "not RX50 disk" ... > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 7:06=E2=80=AFPM hupfadekroua > wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> I was successfully able to transfer your floppy images and boot from >> 001.img using my Gotek >> >> What's the difference between 001.img and 001-1.img? >> >> Additionally which device I've to choose at the boot command? >> >> Trying rx(..,..) I'm getting "not RX50 disk2". >> >> Best >> >> Andreas >> >> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 10:47=E2=80=AFPM Chris Zach via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >>> Yeah, they're on my web server https://www.crystel.com/pdp/os. Use the >>> .img ones for a Gotek, .imd ones to make floppies with teledisk or >>> whatever it was. >>> >>> CZ >>> >>> On 10/19/2023 11:15 AM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > is there any source known how and where to get the floppy images used >>> in >>> > the Ultrix-11 installation example? >>> > >>> > Best regards >>> >> --===============0116751465046037718==-- From lproven@gmail.com Tue Oct 24 17:48:06 2023 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for NORTRONICS Read/Write head for IBM 5100/5110/5106 tape unit Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 18:47:48 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7880323511821060983==" --===============7880323511821060983== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 06:27, Mark Perullo via cctalk wrote: > > Hey Steve You're not talking to Steve, but a whole mailing list of hundreds of people. The rest of us don't know which Steve you mean. > I know this is a year later but I have the Nortronic Read Write heads you w= ere looking for. Well, you may know, but we don't, because you didn't quite the message you were replying to. > They are currently on eBay. The listing is below. It isn't. You didn't provide a link. > Just do a search and they will come up. I did. It didn't. =C2=AB 0 results for Nortronics Magnetic Head Assembly. NOS Part 9164-0068. Radio Cart Machines. Save this search Postage to: IM14AY Shop on eBay Opens in a new window or tab Brand New $20.00 or Best Offer Sponsored No exact matches found Save this search to receive email alerts and notifications when new items are available. =C2=BB This is what happens when you don't provide a link, or an auction number. > Hope this helps. > Mark It doesn't. > Sent from my iPhone Well that was a bad move for a start. --=20 Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============7880323511821060983==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Wed Oct 25 09:42:25 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for NORTRONICS Read/Write head for IBM 5100/5110/5106 tape unit Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 04:42:08 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8179640906639589726==" --===============8179640906639589726== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, I see the listing. Here is my notes on what tape head I was looking for: (it is about 3/4th of the way down the page; there is one photo and then one "diagram" I put together) https://voidstar.blog/ibm-5100-internal-tape-and-5106/ And I appreciate you taking the time to bring this to my attention (and the community in general). Tentatively, I'd say the ones you have aren't quite a match for the 5100-series. To explain: In the image/notes linked above, one photo has the tape unit head out with a blue label on it. That label says NORTRONICS P.N. 1608752 C584980 (then there are other numbers on it, like 269 and 24256). I mention these in text just since a search might happen across them someday, as opposed to images. Now across all this time, sure, we don't need EXACT part number matching. Across years or seasons, it's a good chance NORTRONICS changed part numbers. Recall, the tape unit itself was put together by 3M. The part number you referenced - it does seem to be from a "2-track" tape of some sort, so that's promising. But also in my link above, there is another photo - hard to describe, but it shows the "front" of the head. The discussion group I don't think would let me attach a small image? I've never actually tried. But anyhow, in that image: the head has "two halves". One half looks like an "upper and lower" for the two tracks, then next to that is a "vertical bar." I've never quite understood what that vertical bar is - I assume a WRITE portion of some sort?? The ones in the ebay listing don't have this "vertical bar." Then the pins on the back of the head: the one I have for my 5100/5110 is "6 small pins" next to "4 fat pins" (the 4 fat pins are in line with the "vertical bar" mentioned above). Of all the heads I came across, I could find the "6 small pin" configuration, but never the "4 fat pins." Now... in the past year or two, my trails have led me to getting two working tape units, and two broken ones. I've mulled over whether I should keep using the two working ones every now then (like once a year) just to keep tabs on them - or "lock them down" and never use them until I come across some confirmed tape (that has 5100/5110 content) that needs reading. But recently, I've been focused on a POLY88 restoration, but also the "new 8-bit system" the 6502-based Commander X16 (which its second round of pre-orders have done well, nearly sold out now). I've also learned about dishonest contractors recently, the hard way - construction related, not computer related; but it's eaten up a lot of time dealing with that. But my point there was: yep, I'm still interested in finding a working head. One other related note here: the earliest reference to the term "QIC" that I ever came across - after pouring through BYTE and PC Magazine - was around 1983 (early-mid 1980s), but NOT earlier than 1980. And I know some people don't like me calling those QIC tapes. But the description you provide in the Ebay listing is "track 2, single gap." Maybe. I noticed the 6 pins on the back of those being offered resemble the "fat pins" on the back of one mine (except mine only has 4 such pins, not 6). So I'll think it over some more if more information comes available, but most likely I may need to pass on the ones listed here. -SteveL (v*) On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 12:27 AM Mark Perullo via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hey Steve I know this is a year later but I have the Nortronic Read Write > heads you were looking for. They are currently on eBay. The listing is > below. Just do a search and they will come up. > > Nortronics Magnetic Head Assembly. NOS Part 9164-0068. Radio Cart > Machines. > > > Hope this helps. > Mark > > Sent from my iPhone > --===============8179640906639589726==-- From cc@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Thu Oct 26 08:23:38 2023 From: Christian Corti To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for NORTRONICS Read/Write head for IBM 5100/5110/5106 tape unit Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 10:22:28 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1658141074804094450==" --===============1658141074804094450== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Mark Perullo wrote: > halves". One half looks like an "upper and lower" for the two tracks, then > next to that is a "vertical bar." I've never quite understood what that > vertical bar is - I assume a WRITE portion of some sort?? The ones in > the ebay listing don't have this "vertical bar." That is the erase head. > Then the pins on the back of the head: the one I have for my 5100/5110 is > "6 small pins" next to "4 fat pins" (the 4 fat pins are in line with the > "vertical bar" mentioned above). Of all the heads I came across, I could > find the "6 small pin" configuration, but never the "4 fat pins." My guess (System Logics Manual page 435 seems to support this) 6 small pins: the two center-taped read-write-heads 4 fat pins: the two erase heads Christian --===============1658141074804094450==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Fri Oct 27 22:59:21 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue... Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 18:59:03 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <169800337562.4006402.3290260442742033133@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2900158092062755885==" --===============2900158092062755885== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fired up my three PowerLites...all three need nvram batteries, no surprise. One has a failing display, one has a dead display or an issue with power but they all at least boot up. Bill On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 3:36 PM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > Thanks Jonathan for the offer. Meanwhile X-rayed the 1643 as well and > connected a really big battery. Here again: Had to start the oscillator > before the UltraBook passed the POST and turned on the display - it is up > and running again now - UltraBook and UltraBook IIi restored. So my final > report: > > (1) Failing UltraBooks and UltraBooks IIi can get a "new" NVRAM, but need > them erazed and the oscillator started. After that, they power up again. > > (2) The procedure given in the Sun NVRAM-FAQ for using the OpenFirmware to > set Machine Type 0x80, MAC, HostID and checksum works as given there (using > the mkp command). This information goes into NVRAM adresses 0x1FD9 and > following. > > (3) Also OpenBoot and the command idprom@ can be used to read the > information (again according to the table in the FAQ) from NVRAM. > > (4) real-machine-type and update-system-idprom are not implemented in the > UltraBooks and they are not necessary as well (information is written to > the NVRAM immeiately with the mkp command). > > (5) During booting, Solaris may complain on a wrong date format in the > NVRAM - but this message goes away after time was set using the OS's date > command. > > (6) The contents of the NVRAM for lower addresses look different between > UltraBook and UltraBook IIi, so it does not make sense using NVRAM contents > from one type on the other one (boot order is at 0x2CB for both, but > TTY-settings differ). > > (7) The Open-Firmware manual lists some interesting additional STOP > sequences on top of STOP-A which may be of help if encountering problems - > e.g. for resetting NVRAM or starting a Forth interpreter on TTYA for > debugging of hardware problems - see page 107 in 901-7042. > > Happy computing and thanks to all who responded or participated in one way > or another... > --===============2900158092062755885==-- From erik@baigar.de Sat Oct 28 17:22:44 2023 From: erik@baigar.de To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue... Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 17:22:40 +0000 Message-ID: <169851376061.4006402.8348105445666829531@classiccmp.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0936418933195440727==" --===============0936418933195440727== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Bill, that is cool! So failing display means it is black, but you hear= it booting from the HDD? Do you know what type of NVRAM was used in the Powe= rLite? (Would be interesting if their NVRAM also has a "stop oscillator" bit = which I attribute to the problems) --===============0936418933195440727==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Oct 28 19:06:25 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue... Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 15:06:07 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <169851376061.4006402.8348105445666829531@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7448003413994594433==" --===============7448003413994594433== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did not check for that. Here is a pic https://vintagecomputer.net/RDI/PowerLite/RDI_PowerLite_PLX800-1200-32.jpg On Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:22 PM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > Thanks Bill, that is cool! So failing display means it is black, but you > hear it booting from the HDD? Do you know what type of NVRAM was used in > the PowerLite? (Would be interesting if their NVRAM also has a "stop > oscillator" bit which I attribute to the problems) > --===============7448003413994594433==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Sun Oct 29 17:00:16 2023 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Ultrix 11 installation and ZULU SCSI Disc Emulator Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:59:56 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0982434858395418889==" --===============0982434858395418889== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I tried several ways to get a working SCSI image to be successfully boote on a ZULU 2024 SCSI Emulator. 1. I do have an Image of an RZ25-E drive containing RSX11M Plus, which is booting properly. This is a raw dd based disc image of a SCSI drive. 2. I got a disc mage by Jacob, which is booting using simh, but not using the ZULU on a physical 11/73 3. I created a fresh installation of Ultrix 11 using simh 3.9.x creating a RD54 image which won't boot on the ZULU an the physical 11/73 4.. I created a fresh installation of Ultrix 11 using simh 3.9.x directly into a physical SCSI drive partition, created an image via dd which doesn't want to boot on the ZULU. Simh is booting properly from a dd image of this partition. 5. Simh is telling me in general using a (virtual) RQDX3 controller. Maybe the images created won't boot because of being created by the virtual RQDX 3 controller? How to create a raw disc w/o any controller specific format - simply a plain Ultrix 11 image as a target for a SCSI drive to be booted either from the physical, or from a virtual (ZULU). Best Andreas --===============0982434858395418889==-- From useddec@gmail.com Mon Oct 30 07:26:59 2023 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 02:26:42 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3933067295672396412==" --===============3933067295672396412== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Michael, I might be able to part out a system. Any idea what one is worth? Paul On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:58 AM Michael Thompson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is > the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of backplanes > available? > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 2:35 AM devin davison via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I have a few systems in rough shape, and need parts. Let me know what you > > find, i am interested. I mainly run my unibus 11/34 systems, but i have a > > few q bus syatems in need of parts and repair. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devin D. > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:02 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have nostalgia > > > for the first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. > > > > > > mcl > > > > > > --===============3933067295672396412==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Mon Oct 30 07:33:12 2023 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 03:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6152491803978967866==" --===============6152491803978967866== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think a complete system would be worth more than the sum of its parts. On Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 3:27 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi Michael, > > I might be able to part out a system. Any idea what one is worth? > > Paul > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:58 AM Michael Thompson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > The RICM has an empty 11/20 chassis and the power supply. All it needs is > > the processor backplanes. Is there any chance you have a set of > backplanes > > available? > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 2:35 AM devin davison via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > I have a few systems in rough shape, and need parts. Let me know what > you > > > find, i am interested. I mainly run my unibus 11/34 systems, but i > have a > > > few q bus syatems in need of parts and repair. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Devin D. > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:02 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < > > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I sincerely doubt I could afford a PDP-11/20 but I still have > nostalgia > > > > for the first machine I used at university. So I have to ask. > > > > > > > > mcl > > > > > > > > > > --===============6152491803978967866==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Mon Oct 30 15:44:06 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Ultrix 11 installation and ZULU SCSI Disc Emulator Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7503637779783976776==" --===============7503637779783976776== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 at 13:00, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hi all, > > I tried several ways to get a working SCSI image to be successfully boote > on a ZULU 2024 SCSI Emulator. > > 1. I do have an Image of an RZ25-E drive containing RSX11M Plus, which is > booting properly. This is a raw dd based disc image of a SCSI drive. > 2. I got a disc mage by Jacob, which is booting using simh, but not using > the ZULU on a physical 11/73 > 3. I created a fresh installation of Ultrix 11 using simh 3.9.x creating a > RD54 image which won't boot on the ZULU an the physical 11/73 > 4.. I created a fresh installation of Ultrix 11 using simh 3.9.x directly > into a physical SCSI drive partition, created an image via dd which doesn't > want to boot on the ZULU. Simh is booting properly from a dd image of this > partition. > 5. Simh is telling me in general using a (virtual) RQDX3 controller. Maybe > the images created won't boot because of being created by the virtual RQDX > 3 controller? > > How to create a raw disc w/o any controller specific format - simply a > plain Ultrix 11 image as a target for a SCSI drive to be booted either from > the physical, or from a virtual (ZULU). > > Newer versions of SIMH (v4, I'm not sure exactly when support was added) allow you to "set rq type=3DRQDX1" which in the case of the RD54 might make a difference, and the Ultrix-11 ra driver does treat the controllers slightly differently. I'm not sure that it should actually make a difference, but that would be the first thing that I would try. How does the controller identify itself when booting RSX-11? That could give some hints as to what might be happening with Ultrix. You could also try 2.11BSD, or even 2.9BSD, to see if those are able to boot and see how they identify the controller. -Henry --===============7503637779783976776==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Mon Oct 30 19:36:44 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Ultrix 11 installation and ZULU SCSI Disc Emulator Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 15:36:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2994239179984204227==" --===============2994239179984204227== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 at 11:43, Henry Bent wrote: > On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 at 13:00, hupfadekroua via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I tried several ways to get a working SCSI image to be successfully boote >> on a ZULU 2024 SCSI Emulator. >> >> 1. I do have an Image of an RZ25-E drive containing RSX11M Plus, which is >> booting properly. This is a raw dd based disc image of a SCSI drive. >> 2. I got a disc mage by Jacob, which is booting using simh, but not using >> the ZULU on a physical 11/73 >> 3. I created a fresh installation of Ultrix 11 using simh 3.9.x creating a >> RD54 image which won't boot on the ZULU an the physical 11/73 >> 4.. I created a fresh installation of Ultrix 11 using simh 3.9.x directly >> into a physical SCSI drive partition, created an image via dd which >> doesn't >> want to boot on the ZULU. Simh is booting properly from a dd image of this >> partition. >> 5. Simh is telling me in general using a (virtual) RQDX3 controller. Maybe >> the images created won't boot because of being created by the virtual RQDX >> 3 controller? >> >> How to create a raw disc w/o any controller specific format - simply a >> plain Ultrix 11 image as a target for a SCSI drive to be booted either >> from >> the physical, or from a virtual (ZULU). >> >> > Newer versions of SIMH (v4, I'm not sure exactly when support was added) > allow you to "set rq type=RQDX1" which in the case of the RD54 might make a > difference, and the Ultrix-11 ra driver does treat the controllers slightly > differently. I'm not sure that it should actually make a difference, but > that would be the first thing that I would try. > > How does the controller identify itself when booting RSX-11? That could > give some hints as to what might be happening with Ultrix. > > You could also try 2.11BSD, or even 2.9BSD, to see if those are able to > boot and see how they identify the controller. > Replying to myself here... I took a deeper dive through the Dilog SQ706A controller manual (the SCSI controller you're using) and it looks like it presents itself as a KDA50, though that's only an inference based on the fact that the manual suggests that you can run the KDA50 diagnostics on the controller. Ultrix-11 definitely treats this differently than the RQDX series, so perhaps that's the issue here. I went ahead and set up an Ultrix install on an RA81/KDA50 in SIMH that uses the disk sensibly since I wanted that for my own use, contact me off-list and I can send you the image. -Henry --===============2994239179984204227==--