From ccth6600@gmail.com Sat Apr 1 01:49:40 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 09:49:24 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5055664666125048134==" --===============5055664666125048134== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC CYBER and 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the emulator. Tom On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, wrote: > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows where it > is. > > Thanks, > > -Eric > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by Donald M. > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10. > > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the author > with > > the help of Dan Gahlinger. > > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan Gahlinger > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any > > successful round of game. > > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7. > > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now. > > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of TREK7 > > now. > > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7 > > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout! > > > > Ulli > > The VAXorcist > > > --===============5055664666125048134==-- From mooreericnyc@gmail.com Sat Apr 1 02:00:10 2023 From: Eric Moore To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:59:48 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8981235294571405273==" --===============8981235294571405273== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile, and run it 😂 On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC CYBER and > 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the emulator. > Tom > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, > > wrote: > > > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows where > it > > is. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Eric > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by Donald M. > > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10. > > > > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the author > > with > > > the help of Dan Gahlinger. > > > > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan > Gahlinger > > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any > > > successful round of game. > > > > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7. > > > > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by > > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now. > > > > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of > TREK7 > > > now. > > > > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7 > > > > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout! > > > > > > Ulli > > > The VAXorcist > > > > > > --===============8981235294571405273==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sat Apr 1 04:06:46 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:05:54 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1252655721139899024==" --===============1252655721139899024== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Eric. Can you please share the link to the Fortran 4 copy of Adventure? On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 08:59:48PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote: > Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of > adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile, and > run it =F0=9F=98=82 > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: > > > I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC CYBER a= nd > > 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the emulator. > > Tom > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, > > > > wrote: > > > > > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows where > > it > > > is. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich H=C3=B6lscher via cctalk < > > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by Donald = M. > > > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10. > > > > > > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the author > > > with > > > > the help of Dan Gahlinger. > > > > > > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan > > Gahlinger > > > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any > > > > successful round of game. > > > > > > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7. > > > > > > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by > > > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now. > > > > > > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of > > TREK7 > > > > now. > > > > > > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7 > > > > > > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout! > > > > > > > > Ulli > > > > The VAXorcist > > > > > > > > > -- Regards, Tarek Hoteit --===============1252655721139899024==-- From mooreericnyc@gmail.com Sat Apr 1 04:10:34 2023 From: Eric Moore To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 23:10:18 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6851659406918301117==" --===============6851659406918301117== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I received this in a direct reply from a list member: There are several FORTRAN implementations of the original Adventure game drifting around. The original can be found at: https://jerz.setonhill.edu/intfic/colossal-cave-adventure-source-code/ The Multics port at: https://gitlab.com/dps8m/Multics_Software/multics_dungn32b A bunch of others: https://rickadams.org/adventure/e_downloads.html On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 11:06 PM Tarek Hoteit wrote: > Hello Eric. Can you please share the link to the Fortran 4 copy of > Adventure? > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 08:59:48PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote: > > Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of > > adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile, > and > > run it 😂 > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC > CYBER and > > > 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the > emulator. > > > Tom > > > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows > where > > > it > > > > is. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk < > > > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by > Donald M. > > > > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10. > > > > > > > > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the > author > > > > with > > > > > the help of Dan Gahlinger. > > > > > > > > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan > > > Gahlinger > > > > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any > > > > > successful round of game. > > > > > > > > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7. > > > > > > > > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by > > > > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now. > > > > > > > > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of > > > TREK7 > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7 > > > > > > > > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout! > > > > > > > > > > Ulli > > > > > The VAXorcist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > --===============6851659406918301117==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sat Apr 1 04:40:35 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:39:46 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8592067106254386776==" --===============8592067106254386776== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are a great set of links. Huge Adventure fan. Thank you so much On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 11:10:18PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote: > I received this in a direct reply from a list member: > > There are several FORTRAN implementations of the original Adventure game > drifting around. > > The original can be found at: > > https://jerz.setonhill.edu/intfic/colossal-cave-adventure-source-code/ > > The Multics port at: > > https://gitlab.com/dps8m/Multics_Software/multics_dungn32b > > A bunch of others: > > https://rickadams.org/adventure/e_downloads.html > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 11:06 PM Tarek Hoteit wrote: > > > Hello Eric. Can you please share the link to the Fortran 4 copy of > > Adventure? > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 08:59:48PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote: > > > Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of > > > adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile, > > and > > > run it =F0=9F=98=82 > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC > > CYBER and > > > > 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the > > emulator. > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows > > where > > > > it > > > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich H=C3=B6lscher via cctalk < > > > > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by > > Donald M. > > > > > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10. > > > > > > > > > > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the > > author > > > > > with > > > > > > the help of Dan Gahlinger. > > > > > > > > > > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan > > > > Gahlinger > > > > > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any > > > > > > successful round of game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7. > > > > > > > > > > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by > > > > > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again no= w. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of > > > > TREK7 > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7 > > > > > > > > > > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout! > > > > > > > > > > > > Ulli > > > > > > The VAXorcist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Tarek Hoteit > > -- Regards, Tarek Hoteit --===============8592067106254386776==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Sat Apr 1 06:12:08 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 14:11:39 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6393471976036130596==" --===============6393471976036130596== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have uploaded a ZIP file with the FORTRAN IV sources of Startrk, Aventure and Qork to Google Drive. These are CDC CYBER mainframe versions for the NOS operating system. Adventure and Qork each come with a text file used by the game. Here is the link to the file "games.zip": https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sr53cfBEkNGwsauzIKAp_5ZDnaFGT9WN/view?usp=3D= sharing Have fun. Tom On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 10:00=E2=80=AFAM Eric Moore = wrote: > Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of > adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile, and > run it =F0=9F=98=82 > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: > >> I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC CYBER >> and >> 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the emulator. >> Tom >> >> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >> wrote: >> >> > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows >> where it >> > is. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > -Eric >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich H=C3=B6lscher via cctalk < >> > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> > >> > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by Donald >> M. >> > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10. >> > > >> > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the author >> > with >> > > the help of Dan Gahlinger. >> > > >> > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan >> Gahlinger >> > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any >> > > successful round of game. >> > > >> > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7. >> > > >> > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by >> > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now. >> > > >> > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of >> TREK7 >> > > now. >> > > >> > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7 >> > > >> > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout! >> > > >> > > Ulli >> > > The VAXorcist >> > > >> > >> > --===============6393471976036130596==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Apr 1 07:04:02 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 00:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7746296614938190421==" --===============7746296614938190421== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anent Adventure... Sometime in the early 1970s, (maybe 74 or 75) a DEC CE friend, Debbie, gave me a 9 track tape on a small 7" reel and said "You've got to try this one". I asked her what system it was for, and she said "PDP-10. Well, I knew nothing about PDP-10 systems, but I said I'd have a look at the tape. Mind you, most of my tape library was 7-track. When I first dumped it on a CDC CYBER 73 system, I couldn't make heads or tails of it. It slowly became clear that this was a 36 bit system and that characters were 7 bits in length, with the highest-order bit not part of the 5 characters. So I wrote out some code and discovered that the characters were indeed 7 bit ASCII. After that, it was a simple matter of converting the thing to 6 bit CDC display code. Naturally, the I/O statements had to be reworked for SCOPE / INTERCOM, and the different word length but a special problem arose when it came to saving the game. Unlike the DEC convention of saving an executable file, it really didn't fit well with the SCOPE OS architecture to do that. So I took all of the volatile game-related variables and wrote them out as a file. Retrieving a saved game was pretty simple. I anonymously put the game onto a reel of tape and made it known that it was available to whomever wanted it. It was only about 2 weeks that CDC COMSOURCE launched a search-and-destroy mission to wipe the game off the face of the earth, or at least CDC SVLOPS. I don't know if they ever succeeded. I decided that this was something that I would best not take credit for. Your tax dollars at work. From all reports, it was extremely popular. --Chuck --===============7746296614938190421==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Apr 1 07:11:35 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] DEC RSX BACKUP.SYS (bup?) files Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 00:11:26 -0700 Message-ID: <9da32078-e81e-47ef-2bd5-1cfc77445d44@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1379427795468331276==" --===============1379427795468331276== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a few RX50 floppies that are *part* of a couple of backup sets. I don't have the complete sets, so the backup utility (BUP?) won't process the set in bits and pieces. Is the BACKUP.SYS file format documented anywhere? This is the file that starts out "JOURNAL", a few nulls, then "MICRORSX" Any help would be appreciated! TIA, Chuck --===============1379427795468331276==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Sun Apr 2 15:27:19 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Earliest version of 3b2/400 sim Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 11:26:58 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3151251171748076389==" --===============3151251171748076389== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Does anyone know the oldest version of the SIM 3b2/400 is and where I can get it? Thanks, Ken -- WWL 📚 --===============3151251171748076389==-- From sfmc68@verizon.net Sun Apr 2 17:12:45 2023 From: badbob To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 233, Issue 1 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 17:12:34 +0000 Message-ID: <1397216671.4123880.1680455554540@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <168045480890.1516365.10549655389956510627@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0379672904366533270==" --===============0379672904366533270== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =C2=A0 1. Earliest version of 3b2/400 sim (KenUnix) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2023 11:26:58 -0400 From: KenUnix Subject: [cctalk] Earliest version of 3b2/400 sim To: CCTALK Message-ID: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Hi, Does anyone know the oldest version of the SIM 3b2/400 is and where I can get it? Thanks, Ken This is what I have found after searching, which implies around or before Nov= =C2=A0 2017, AT&T 3B2 400 emulated Posted on November 24, 2017=20 https://virtuallyfun.com/2017/11/24/att-3b2-400-emulated/ WWL =F0=9F=93=9A End of cctalk Digest, Vol 233, Issue 1 ************************************** --===============0379672904366533270==-- From sfmc68@verizon.net Sun Apr 2 17:22:06 2023 From: badbob To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 233, Issue 1 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 17:22:00 +0000 Message-ID: <667008538.4124838.1680456120850@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <168045480890.1516365.10549655389956510627@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6447083024432787835==" --===============6447083024432787835== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2023 11:26:58 -0400 From: KenUnix Subject: [cctalk] Earliest version of 3b2/400 sim To: CCTALK Message-ID: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Hi, Does anyone know the oldest version of the SIM 3b2/400 is and where I can get it? Thanks, Ken --=20 Found this toohttps://loomcom.com/3b2/emulator/ =20 - 2017-12-27: HD135 and HD161 are now both recognized names forthe Maxtor = XT-2190 disk drive. - 2017-12-27: Fix for CPU traps. The UNIX debugger sdb should nowwork corr= ectly under System V Release 3. - 2017-12-17: Minor compiler warning fix. - 2017-12-16: Fixed a FIFO overflow bug in the CONTTY device. - 2017-12-15: Critical MMU bugfix. - 2017-12-13: Improved support for multiple hard disk drives, aswell as ad= ding support for additional hard disk geometries. - 2017-12-09: Added support for the secondary on-board serialterminal (CON= TTY). RMS --===============6447083024432787835==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Apr 2 18:58:36 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Earliest version of 3b2/400 sim Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 14:58:28 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9151390809087479544==" --===============9151390809087479544== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The simulators are maintained using Git, the repository at Github. You can u= se standard Git mechanisms to check out earlier revisions of anything you wan= t. paul > On Apr 2, 2023, at 11:26 AM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Does anyone know the oldest version of the SIM 3b2/400 > is and where I can get it? >=20 > Thanks, > Ken >=20 > --=20 > WWL =F0=9F=93=9A --===============9151390809087479544==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Sun Apr 2 19:58:59 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Earliest version of 3b2/400 sim Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 15:58:37 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0509188479176626227==" --===============0509188479176626227== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks. On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 2:58=E2=80=AFPM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > The simulators are maintained using Git, the repository at Github. You > can use standard Git mechanisms to check out earlier revisions of anything > you want. > > paul > > > On Apr 2, 2023, at 11:26 AM, KenUnix via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know the oldest version of the SIM 3b2/400 > > is and where I can get it? > > > > Thanks, > > Ken > > > > -- > > WWL =F0=9F=93=9A > > --=20 End of line JOB TERMINATED --===============0509188479176626227==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Apr 3 08:26:32 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] WICAT Systems Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 03:26:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1752468680339984054==" --===============1752468680339984054== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is anyone familiar with WICAT Systems? I came across their ad in BYTE Nov 1981 (page 84), with a claim of "first family of microcomputers with mainframe capability" It is a 68000 based system (like the Lisa?), one configuration offers 400x300 monochrome graphics. Ad also claims 1.5MB main memory and a multi-user operating system ("UNIX/V7 and a CP/M Emulation also available") called MCS. Address mentions Orem, Utah. Haven't come across a price sheet, but I imagine they were quite expensive ($6000+ would be my guess). From the images, looks to me the main problem is a lack of an expansion bus (and overall not a very appealing-looking system). Was just curious if anyone had witnessed one ever running. -Steve --===============1752468680339984054==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Apr 3 11:06:12 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: WICAT Systems Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 07:05:56 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0251143961486986823==" --===============0251143961486986823== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 4:26 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > Is anyone familiar with WICAT Systems? > > I came across their ad in BYTE Nov 1981 (page 84), with a claim of > "first family of microcomputers with mainframe capability" > > It is a 68000 based system (like the Lisa?), one configuration offers > 400x300 monochrome graphics. > Probably more like the SAGE II than a Lisa. The SAGE II was from.about the same time, 68000-based, ran Pascal OS and CP/M. Used a terminal for I/O, no graphics. Never saw a WICAT. Interesting. 1981/82 was when the first 68000 systems started to appear, before the Lisa. I dont know which was first but I am curious.to know. Bill > --===============0251143961486986823==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Mon Apr 3 12:21:18 2023 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: WICAT Systems Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 08:21:08 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4127430879108501483==" --===============4127430879108501483== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/3/2023 4:26 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > Is anyone familiar with WICAT Systems? > > I came across their ad in BYTE Nov 1981 (page 84), with a claim of > "first family of microcomputers with mainframe capability" > > It is a 68000 based system (like the Lisa?), one configuration offers > 400x300 monochrome graphics. Ad also claims 1.5MB main memory and a > multi-user operating system ("UNIX/V7 and a CP/M Emulation also available") > called MCS. > > Address mentions Orem, Utah. > > Haven't come across a price sheet, but I imagine they were quite expensive > ($6000+ would be my guess). > > From the images, looks to me the main problem is a lack of an expansion bus > (and overall not a very appealing-looking system). > > Was just curious if anyone had witnessed one ever running. 40 years ago.  One of the early Unix system in a market that sprouted dozens and dozens later.  Nothing particularly impressive about it. bill --===============4127430879108501483==-- From c.murray.mccullough@gmail.com Mon Apr 3 13:15:41 2023 From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Wireless phone Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:15:18 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3845871759200287535==" --===============3845871759200287535== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On April 3, 1973 the first wireless phone call was made and Moore’s Law has now led to the smart-phone being ubiquitous to our lives: Computer technology and cell phone technology marching hand-in-hand. Happy computing and talking about it! Murray 🙂 --===============3845871759200287535==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Mon Apr 3 13:23:49 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:23:41 -0400 Message-ID: <35F5BF57-36B0-4972-85D6-C88A4C0C712E@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0408856088987667560==" --===============0408856088987667560== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That would be cell phone, right? Wireless phones have been around for much l= onger, but those earlier ones weren't cellular. The key innovation is seamle= ss handoff between cells, as opposed to the call being tied to a particular b= ase station for the duration. paul > On Apr 3, 2023, at 9:15 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On April 3, 1973 the first wireless phone call was made and Moore=E2=80=99s= Law has > now led to the smart-phone being ubiquitous to our lives: Computer > technology and cell phone technology marching hand-in-hand. >=20 >=20 > Happy computing and talking about it! >=20 >=20 > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 --===============0408856088987667560==-- From gavin@learn.bio Mon Apr 3 15:41:39 2023 From: Gavin Scott To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 10:41:23 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <35F5BF57-36B0-4972-85D6-C88A4C0C712E@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8117167096710142009==" --===============8117167096710142009== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marty's book is pretty good... https://www.amazon.com/Cutting-Cord-Phone-Transformed-Humanity/dp/194812274X On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 8:23=E2=80=AFAM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > That would be cell phone, right? Wireless phones have been around for much= longer, but those earlier ones weren't cellular. The key innovation is seam= less handoff between cells, as opposed to the call being tied to a particular= base station for the duration. > > paul > > > On Apr 3, 2023, at 9:15 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > > > > On April 3, 1973 the first wireless phone call was made and Moore=E2=80= =99s Law has > > now led to the smart-phone being ubiquitous to our lives: Computer > > technology and cell phone technology marching hand-in-hand. > > > > > > Happy computing and talking about it! > > > > > > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 > --===============8117167096710142009==-- From tdk.knight@gmail.com Mon Apr 3 15:46:57 2023 From: Adrian Stoness To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 10:46:41 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <35F5BF57-36B0-4972-85D6-C88A4C0C712E@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0262502937854605981==" --===============0262502937854605981== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aww the mts phones still find a few places in the world that use em still Had one at my cabin till that got shut down in 2006 here In manitoba. Also got one of the ones sherritt exploration had with a range that would reach to the operator in selkirk from lynn lake mb On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 8:23 a.m. Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > That would be cell phone, right? Wireless phones have been around for > much longer, but those earlier ones weren't cellular. The key innovation > is seamless handoff between cells, as opposed to the call being tied to a > particular base station for the duration. > > paul > > > On Apr 3, 2023, at 9:15 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On April 3, 1973 the first wireless phone call was made and Moore=E2=80= =99s Law > has > > now led to the smart-phone being ubiquitous to our lives: Computer > > technology and cell phone technology marching hand-in-hand. > > > > > > Happy computing and talking about it! > > > > > > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 > > --===============0262502937854605981==-- From cclist@sydex.com Mon Apr 3 16:35:48 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:35:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3ccbc767-0aea-3164-e7d7-0d88312d6b5e@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8300798080403895158==" --===============8300798080403895158== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/3/23 08:46, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: > Aww the mts phones still find a few places in the world that use em still Up until wide deployment of cellular communications, you could find an MTS phone in most Real Estate agent's cars locally. Recall also, at about this date, Philippe Kahn sent the first photo via cellphone in 1997. --Chuck --===============8300798080403895158==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 3 16:40:00 2023 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 10:39:54 -0600 Message-ID: <29c9f215-68e6-6482-1708-da7f163cb164@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8563372413525081779==" --===============8563372413525081779== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-04-03 7:15 a.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > On April 3, 1973 the first wireless phone call was made and Moore=E2=80=99s= Law has > now led to the smart-phone being ubiquitous to our lives: Computer > technology and cell phone technology marching hand-in-hand. >=20 >=20 > Happy computing and talking about it! >=20 >=20 > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 I disagree, I decided to buy new computer game after about 20 years. The last game I played was Tomb Raider I. I like the explore type rather than the RPG games. Being muilt-platform the game has over 20 keys that map to game pad rather than keyboard. The game pad is more important the cell phone. If you can't play games (or in my case save the game) what use is the phone or a computer. I miss games like ADVERTURE. Ben. --===============8563372413525081779==-- From paul@mcjones.org Mon Apr 3 18:00:29 2023 From: Paul McJones To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: WICAT Systems Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 10:52:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1AF90FC5-BCB0-4FFB-B94E-BA2032750C93@mcjones.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5667411756421871994==" --===============5667411756421871994== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some models (e.g., the 150) supported Multibus. In the early 1980s at Tandem = Austin we used one with a SUN graphics board in a Multibus slot to prototype = a 68000 workstation we were building (but that never became a product). Al Ko= ssow has lots of information about Wicat in bitsavers. Here=E2=80=99s a broch= ure for the 150: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/wicat/brochures/System_150_Broc= hure.pdf --===============5667411756421871994==-- From cmhanson@eschatologist.net Tue Apr 4 21:55:01 2023 From: Chris Hanson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] NCD-17c and NCD-19 X terminal cap lists? Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 14:14:56 -0700 Message-ID: <07A97414-A207-42F5-8C6B-64F4556E3266@eschatologist.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2558411243928737949==" --===============2558411243928737949== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have a list of replacement capacitors to use for NCD X terminals,= specifically the 17c and 19? A couple searches online don't turn up anything. I just got my NCD 17c up and running=E2=80=94I showed a pic or two on discord= ://classiccmp/#terminals a couple days ago=E2=80=94and now while I hear the H= V power up the low voltage power seems kaput and the system never comes on. A= nd my NCD 19 won't power up either. I can certainly take them apart and make lists, and I will if need be, but I = was hoping maybe someone had already done so so I could get an order in ASAP.= The power supply for these things is in the display portion, which makes me = a bit nervous just generally=E2=80=A6 :) -- Chris --===============2558411243928737949==-- From legalize@xmission.com Wed Apr 5 02:19:27 2023 From: Richard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: NCD-17c and NCD-19 X terminal cap lists? Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 19:29:10 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <07A97414-A207-42F5-8C6B-64F4556E3266@eschatologist.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5534294451706717163==" --===============5534294451706717163== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article <07A97414-A207-42F5-8C6B-64F4556E3266(a)eschatologist.net>, "Chris Hanson via cctalk" writes: > Does anyone have a list of replacement capacitors to use for NCD X > terminals, specifically the 17c and 19? A couple searches online don't turn > up anything. While I don't have a specific replacement list for those terms, this is exactly the sort of thing for which "caps wiki" was created: At the least you should contribute what you learn to that wiki if you have to figure it out yourself. -- Richard -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Terminals Wiki The Computer Graphics Museum Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) --===============5534294451706717163==-- From cmhanson@eschatologist.net Wed Apr 5 22:55:50 2023 From: Chris Hanson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: NCD-17c and NCD-19 X terminal cap lists? Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2023 15:55:32 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2021619737327190010==" --===============2021619737327190010== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Apr 4, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Richard via cctalk wrot= e: >=20 > In article <07A97414-A207-42F5-8C6B-64F4556E3266(a)eschatologist.net>, > "Chris Hanson via cctalk" writes: >=20 >> Does anyone have a list of replacement capacitors to use for NCD X >> terminals, specifically the 17c and 19? A couple searches online don't turn >> up anything. >=20 > While I don't have a specific replacement list for those terms, this > is exactly the sort of thing for which "caps wiki" was created: > >=20 > At the least you should contribute what you learn to that wiki if you > have to figure it out yourself. Amen, will do! And thanks for the link, once I put together the lists I=E2=80= =99ll also try to get links to them from the terminals wiki. We=E2=80=99re all probably going to have to do a lot of recapping in the next= few years, may as well save each other time=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=94 Chris --===============2021619737327190010==-- From legalize@xmission.com Wed Apr 5 23:26:26 2023 From: Richard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: NCD-17c and NCD-19 X terminal cap lists? Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2023 17:26:20 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0858667387683916786==" --===============0858667387683916786== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article , "Chris Hanson via cctalk" writes: > I'll also try to get links to them from the terminals wiki. Yeah, I was thinking that cross-linking to caps wiki from terminals wiki was in order as pages get added... -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Terminals Wiki The Computer Graphics Museum Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) --===============0858667387683916786==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Fri Apr 7 13:41:57 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] DEC M8340 board Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 21:41:29 +0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4313944020766968184==" --===============4313944020766968184== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have a surplus DEC M8340 board with PCB etch level E and revision F (as imprinted on the handle)? If yes, please reply to thunter6600(a)gmail.com. Thanks and best regards Tom Hunter --===============4313944020766968184==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Apr 7 14:47:48 2023 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 10:47:34 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8419960722364493014==" --===============8419960722364493014== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same as the regular Beaglebone Black?  I have a couple of the MFM Emulator boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. bill --===============8419960722364493014==-- From drb@msu.edu Fri Apr 7 14:55:35 2023 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 10:55:26 -0400 Message-ID: <20230407145526.532B7284D81@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55802AD4EE6C0ED3F00D13FFED969=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0426856511126155900==" --===============0426856511126155900== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same > as the regular Beaglebone Black? I have a couple of the MFM Emulator > boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. They're supposed to be the same except with expanded operating temperature range. You know the Greens work for the MFMemu, right? De --===============0426856511126155900==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Fri Apr 7 15:08:51 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 11:08:29 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20230407145526.532B7284D81@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8441842751249456363==" --===============8441842751249456363== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dennis, They also have a more robust motherboard. Ken On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 10:55 AM Dennis Boone via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same > > as the regular Beaglebone Black? I have a couple of the MFM Emulator > > boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. > > They're supposed to be the same except with expanded operating > temperature range. > > You know the Greens work for the MFMemu, right? > > De > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED --===============8441842751249456363==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Apr 7 16:52:35 2023 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 12:52:21 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20230407145526.532B7284D81@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3098687530781309290==" --===============3098687530781309290== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/7/2023 10:55 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same > > as the regular Beaglebone Black? I have a couple of the MFM Emulator > > boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. > > They're supposed to be the same except with expanded operating > temperature range. > > You know the Greens work for the MFMemu, right? Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet.  And I found a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. bill --===============3098687530781309290==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Apr 7 17:25:19 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 13:25:13 -0400 Message-ID: <643A5DE3-1A62-44F8-8038-A61624C0C131@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB558017A57D06E643FEB95CADED969=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2392079572583415571==" --===============2392079572583415571== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 7, 2023, at 12:52 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 4/7/2023 10:55 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >> > Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same >> > as the regular Beaglebone Black? I have a couple of the MFM Emulator >> > boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. >>=20 >> They're supposed to be the same except with expanded operating >> temperature range. >>=20 >> You know the Greens work for the MFMemu, right? >=20 >=20 > Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet. And I found > a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. The main difference between Green and Black is that Black has a micr-HDMI con= nector while Green does not. But they both have Ethernet. I've used one each with the MFM emulator; they both work nicely and the Ether= net makes for a handy way to load or manipulate disk images. paul --===============2392079572583415571==-- From drb@msu.edu Fri Apr 7 17:39:44 2023 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 13:39:39 -0400 Message-ID: <20230407173939.C32E7285236@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB558017A57D06E643FEB95CADED969=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6187750294243738705==" --===============6187750294243738705== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet. And I found > a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. It does have ethernet. They dropped the HDMI output. But the main advantage is price, so if you already found a deal, win. De --===============6187750294243738705==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Apr 7 17:43:02 2023 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 13:42:50 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20230407173939.C32E7285236@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5345828732773715513==" --===============5345828732773715513== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/7/2023 1:39 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet. And I found > > a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. > > It does have ethernet. They dropped the HDMI output. But the main > advantage is price, so if you already found a deal, win. Claimed as new.  Less than $40 each.  Half of what places like Mouser are asking. And, I saw at least one place asking $120 for one. bill --===============5345828732773715513==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Fri Apr 7 19:37:32 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 15:37:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB558097F4E769852C44BA9CC4ED969=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6435605961877409959==" --===============6435605961877409959== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All the details are at: https://www.beagleboard.org/boards/beaglebone-black-industrial And here: https://community.element14.com/products/roadtest/rt/roadtests/27/beaglebone_= black_ind#pifragment-4106=3D9&pifragment-4100=3D4 The original Beagle Bone Black *new from Newark Electronics's $52*. https://www.newark.com/seeed-studio/102110420/beaglebone-black-rohs-compliant= /dp/88AH7402 These SBC's are fun and come with Debian Linux preloaded. Ken On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 1:43=E2=80=AFPM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 4/7/2023 1:39 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > > Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet. And I found > > > a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. > > > > It does have ethernet. They dropped the HDMI output. But the main > > advantage is price, so if you already found a deal, win. > > > Claimed as new. Less than $40 each. Half of what places like Mouser > are asking. > > And, I saw at least one place asking $120 for one. > > > bill > > > --=20 End of line JOB TERMINATED --===============6435605961877409959==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Apr 7 20:34:55 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 16:34:22 -0400 Message-ID: <9B902A87-58FA-4A0B-98C4-14E5F505310E@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1681166262914623549==" --===============1681166262914623549== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 7, 2023, at 3:37 PM, KenUnix via cctalk wr= ote: >=20 > All the details are at: > https://www.beagleboard.org/boards/beaglebone-black-industrial At the bottom of that page is a link to a project (by a high school student) = who used two of these to build a Star Wars B-88 robot. Neat. Newark doesn't show the BB Green but Digikey does. Curiously, it's only $2.5= 0 cheaper than the Black; the difference used to be larger. At that small a = difference the Black is the obvious choice (unless you want the funny connect= ors the Green added in place of HDMI). paul --===============1681166262914623549==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Fri Apr 7 23:57:22 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Raleigh Ham Fest This Weekend Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 19:57:06 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0955073335108300812==" --===============0955073335108300812== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a ham fest in Raleigh NC this weekend, anyone like/dislike it/going? https://www.rarsfest.org/ My son goes to NC State for CompSci, he might go if he can. Bill --===============0955073335108300812==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Sat Apr 8 05:43:41 2023 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Sgi tezero for sale Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 01:43:26 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8408934409364696934==" --===============8408934409364696934== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a sgi tezro for sale. My last sgi machine, i used to have crimson and onyx2 desksides. The front plastic is a little torn. It has a dallas battery problem. I recall getting it to boot by manually typing in the boot info, but it may require soldering to fix the battery. Open to offers. My last sgi machine, i think it's time for me to let it go. As I clean up more, I might be able to find the console cable and see if it still boots, but I'm unsure what its operating condition is as it sits. Located in FL. --Devin D. --===============8408934409364696934==-- From geoffr@zipcon.net Sat Apr 8 07:12:06 2023 From: Geoff Reed To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Sgi tezero for sale Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 00:03:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1680937439.643111df07936@webmail.zipcon.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9013304244931107500==" --===============9013304244931107500== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quoting devin davison via cctalk : > I have a sgi tezro for sale. My last sgi machine, i used to have > crimson > and onyx2 desksides. > > The front plastic is a little torn. It has a dallas battery problem. I > recall getting it to boot by manually typing in the boot info, but it > may > require soldering to fix the battery. > > Open to offers. My last sgi machine, i think it's time for me to let it > go. > As I clean up more, I might be able to find the console cable and see if > it > still boots, but I'm unsure what its operating condition is as it sits. > > Located in FL. > > --Devin D. dangnabbit, why the cool stuff i've lusted after all across the country --===============9013304244931107500==-- From markarmbrennan@gmail.com Sat Apr 8 11:29:06 2023 From: Mark Brennan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Sgi tezero for sale Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 12:28:48 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1680937439.643111df07936@webmail.zipcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2243842235423977801==" --===============2243842235423977801== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Devin, Do you happen to have any brochures/catalogs/Sgi Magazines newsletter by any chance, I would love to add them to our online collection. Regards Mark On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 8:12=E2=80=AFAM Geoff Reed via cctalk wrote: > Quoting devin davison via cctalk : > > > I have a sgi tezro for sale. My last sgi machine, i used to have > > crimson > > and onyx2 desksides. > > > > The front plastic is a little torn. It has a dallas battery problem. I > > recall getting it to boot by manually typing in the boot info, but it > > may > > require soldering to fix the battery. > > > > Open to offers. My last sgi machine, i think it's time for me to let it > > go. > > As I clean up more, I might be able to find the console cable and see if > > it > > still boots, but I'm unsure what its operating condition is as it sits. > > > > Located in FL. > > > > --Devin D. > > dangnabbit, why the cool stuff i've lusted after all across the country > --===============2243842235423977801==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Sat Apr 8 14:28:06 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 07:27:50 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <29c9f215-68e6-6482-1708-da7f163cb164@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0685129590465880371==" --===============0685129590465880371== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 9:40 AM ben via cctalk wrote: > > I disagree, I decided to buy new computer game after about 20 years. > The last game I played was Tomb Raider I. I like the explore type rather > than the RPG games. Being muilt-platform the game has over 20 keys > that map to game pad rather than keyboard. > The game pad is more important the cell phone. If you can't play games > (or in my case save the game) what use is the phone or a computer. > I miss games like ADVERTURE. > Ben. > In that case the cable coming out of the gamepad is more important than the gamepad itself because without the cable the signals from your fingers will never get to the computer. No, I'm not serious, and neither so do I take the assertion above. My claim is meant to be as dumb as Ben's. Sellam --===============0685129590465880371==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 8 17:14:47 2023 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:14:39 -0600 Message-ID: <1cbd13a3-b71e-0b5a-8bc1-240a68c35a3d@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2529139294845387874==" --===============2529139294845387874== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-04-08 8:27 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 9:40 AM ben via cctalk wrote: > >> >> I disagree, I decided to buy new computer game after about 20 years. >> The last game I played was Tomb Raider I. I like the explore type rather >> than the RPG games. Being muilt-platform the game has over 20 keys >> that map to game pad rather than keyboard. >> The game pad is more important the cell phone. If you can't play games >> (or in my case save the game) what use is the phone or a computer. >> I miss games like ADVERTURE. >> Ben. >> > > In that case the cable coming out of the gamepad is more important than the > gamepad itself because without the cable the signals from your fingers will > never get to the computer. > > No, I'm not serious, and neither so do I take the assertion above. My claim > is meant to be as dumb as Ben's. > > Sellam Well for stupid stuff, I claim the Smart phone is not needed at all. Just all marketing by APPLE and JAPAN. I think more game pads have sold than smart phones. You are half right, you can by a new game pad but will it plug in to the old machine, like a C64. Ben. PS: Mobile phones have long been around,as analog devices,for those that really need them. PPS. I have two phones and they have bell and number pad and a long cord. PPPS. The same goes for wifi, not really needed since the USB no computer had real I/O devices to connect mice,printers,networks. --===============2529139294845387874==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sat Apr 8 18:54:46 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Sgi tezero for sale Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:54:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3AF15E97-6E13-48E5-B4CE-00F0E4682F60@infocom.ai> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6577627868459379526==" --===============6577627868459379526== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mark. Curious about your online collection. Can you share a link=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 8, 2023, at 4:29 AM, Mark Brennan via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFHi Devin, > Do you happen to have any brochures/catalogs/Sgi Magazines newsletter by > any chance, I would love to add them to our online collection. > Regards > Mark >=20 >=20 >> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 8:12=E2=80=AFAM Geoff Reed via cctalk >> wrote: >>=20 >> Quoting devin davison via cctalk : >>=20 >>> I have a sgi tezro for sale. My last sgi machine, i used to have >>> crimson >>> and onyx2 desksides. >>>=20 >>> The front plastic is a little torn. It has a dallas battery problem. I >>> recall getting it to boot by manually typing in the boot info, but it >>> may >>> require soldering to fix the battery. >>>=20 >>> Open to offers. My last sgi machine, i think it's time for me to let it >>> go. >>> As I clean up more, I might be able to find the console cable and see if >>> it >>> still boots, but I'm unsure what its operating condition is as it sits. >>>=20 >>> Located in FL. >>>=20 >>> --Devin D. >>=20 >> dangnabbit, why the cool stuff i've lusted after all across the country >>=20 --===============6577627868459379526==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Sun Apr 9 03:31:05 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wireless phone Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 22:30:49 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1cbd13a3-b71e-0b5a-8bc1-240a68c35a3d@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1115519363224195553==" --===============1115519363224195553== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In the 1980's Annie, didn't Oliver Warbucks have a phone in his helicopter car from the 1930s? Maybe I'm remembering it wrong. On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 12:14 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2023-04-08 8:27 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 9:40 AM ben via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> > >> I disagree, I decided to buy new computer game after about 20 years. > >> The last game I played was Tomb Raider I. I like the explore type rather > >> than the RPG games. Being muilt-platform the game has over 20 keys > >> that map to game pad rather than keyboard. > >> The game pad is more important the cell phone. If you can't play > games > >> (or in my case save the game) what use is the phone or a computer. > >> I miss games like ADVERTURE. > >> Ben. > >> > > > > In that case the cable coming out of the gamepad is more important than > the > > gamepad itself because without the cable the signals from your fingers > will > > never get to the computer. > > > > No, I'm not serious, and neither so do I take the assertion above. My > claim > > is meant to be as dumb as Ben's. > > > > Sellam > > Well for stupid stuff, I claim the Smart phone is not needed at all. > Just all marketing by APPLE and JAPAN. I think more game pads have sold > than smart phones. You are half right, you can by a new game pad but will > it plug in to the old machine, like a C64. > Ben. > PS: Mobile phones have long been around,as analog devices,for those that > really need them. > PPS. I have two phones and they have bell and number pad and a long cord. > PPPS. The same goes for wifi, not really needed since the USB no > computer had real I/O devices to connect mice,printers,networks. > > > > > > > --===============1115519363224195553==-- From lproven@gmail.com Mon Apr 10 14:46:52 2023 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Store with "vintage" computers and parts Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 15:46:36 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <397b1735-ae1b-f235-dd24-ebff077d18d2@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1378203780033410357==" --===============1378203780033410357== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 at 23:27, ben via cctalk wrote: > > I wish a custom clock made. A nixie tube alarm clock > with a real bell. Ben. Talk to Dalibor Farny: https://www.daliborfarny.com/ -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============1378203780033410357==-- From legalize@xmission.com Mon Apr 10 19:38:04 2023 From: Richard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Sgi tezero for sale Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:37:56 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4182925946005775771==" --===============4182925946005775771== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In article , "devin davison via cctalk" writes: > I have a sgi tezro for sale. Devin I sent you an email off list, but I often end up in people's spam folders because gmail sucks. Please take a look. Thanks, -- Richard --=20 "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Terminals Wiki The Computer Graphics Museum Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) --===============4182925946005775771==-- From c.murray.mccullough@gmail.com Tue Apr 11 00:10:54 2023 From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] 8086 history Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:10:36 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0286825055516209515==" --===============0286825055516209515== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 45 years ago this month Intel revealed the 8086 processor which became x86 technology that formed the backbone of PC technology. The 8-bit era came to an end about 7 years later. For classic computing a new era began. Happy computing. Murray 🙂 --===============0286825055516209515==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Tue Apr 11 00:18:36 2023 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8086 history Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 17:18:31 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1671386988657814674==" --===============1671386988657814674== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 10 Apr 2023, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > 45 years ago this month Intel revealed the 8086 processor which became x86 > technology that formed the backbone of PC technology. The 8-bit era came to > an end about 7 years later. For classic computing a new era began. Some might enjoy a little bit about the internals of the 8086: https://www.righto.com/2023/03/8086-register-codes.html https://www.righto.com/search/label/8086 (third party reverse engineering; not Intel internal documents) --===============1671386988657814674==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Apr 11 00:35:22 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8086 history Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:35:06 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1547117517458632784==" --===============1547117517458632784== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 8:10 PM Murray McCullough via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > 45 years ago this month Intel revealed the 8086 processor which became x86 > technology that formed the backbone of PC technology. The 8-bit era came to > an end about 7 years later. For classic computing a new era began. > > > > Happy computing. > > > > Murray 🙂 > Murray I think that's a great way to put things, agreed. Bill > --===============1547117517458632784==-- From bernd@kopriva.de Tue Apr 11 16:41:38 2023 From: Bernd Kopriva To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 18:35:36 +0200 Message-ID: <9e3a491d-eb0f-5845-57c7-b9b6d9235865@kopriva.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4813989786060489384==" --===============4813989786060489384== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, a friend of mine is currently working on a FPGA implementation of the CERES-3 workstation (cpu-ns32k.net/TRIPUTER.html#Ceres). He currently lacks of information of the RTC chip M3001 which was manufactored by Swiss company Microelectronic-Marin. Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? Thanks Bernd --===============4813989786060489384==-- From jf.secker@gmail.com Tue Apr 11 17:07:15 2023 From: Jan Secker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 19:06:59 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9e3a491d-eb0f-5845-57c7-b9b6d9235865@kopriva.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7363838708600665484==" --===============7363838708600665484== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I found this: https://www.silicon-ark.co.uk/m3002-16pi-real-time-clock-by-me-microelectroni= ca Not exactly what you asked but maybe useful. Jan Op di 11 apr 2023 om 18:41 schreef Bernd Kopriva via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>: > Hi, > a friend of mine is currently working on a FPGA implementation of the > CERES-3 workstation (cpu-ns32k.net/TRIPUTER.html#Ceres). > He currently lacks of information of the RTC chip M3001 which was > manufactored by Swiss company Microelectronic-Marin. > Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? > > Thanks Bernd > --===============7363838708600665484==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Wed Apr 12 03:28:55 2023 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Sgi tezero for sale Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:28:35 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2981194592786197012==" --===============2981194592786197012== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have had several inquiries on the tezro. I am out of town at the moment. Once i get back, let me get some pictures posted, and i will fire it up with a serial console to get the hinv listing. I am willing to ship, but due to the size of the computer, it may need to be crated, i would worry about it getting damaged in the mail with just usps or UPS. There is a nearby place in orlando fl called craters and freighters, i used them to ship my sgi crimson, so that may be the way to safely ship the tezro if needed. It is located in Melbourne Fl. --Devin D. On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 3:38 PM Richard via cctalk wrote: > In article N_2EyB3pDS7Jqbk+XKoYqzLvkirAv4bg(a)mail.gmail.com>, > "devin davison via cctalk" writes: > > > I have a sgi tezro for sale. > > Devin I sent you an email off list, but I often end up in people's > spam folders because gmail sucks. Please take a look. > > Thanks, > -- Richard > > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book < > http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> > The Terminals Wiki > The Computer Graphics Museum > Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) > --===============2981194592786197012==-- From bernd@kopriva.de Wed Apr 12 13:32:17 2023 From: Bernd Kopriva To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:26:48 +0200 Message-ID: <9864997a-b59c-0dbe-7755-857f33212d90@kopriva.de> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2123061597989803428==" --===============2123061597989803428== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the link ... ... i will ask him if this my help. Thanks Bernd Jan Secker via cctalk wrote on 11/04/2023 19:06: > Hi, > I found this: > https://www.silicon-ark.co.uk/m3002-16pi-real-time-clock-by-me-microelectro= nica > Not exactly what you asked but maybe useful. > > Jan > > Op di 11 apr 2023 om 18:41 schreef Bernd Kopriva via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>: > >> Hi, >> a friend of mine is currently working on a FPGA implementation of the >> CERES-3 workstation (cpu-ns32k.net/TRIPUTER.html#Ceres). >> He currently lacks of information of the RTC chip M3001 which was >> manufactored by Swiss company Microelectronic-Marin. >> Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? >> >> Thanks Bernd >> --===============2123061597989803428==-- From wrcooke@wrcooke.net Wed Apr 12 13:48:12 2023 From: wrcooke@wrcooke.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 08:48:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1467155877.4892839.1681307288083@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <9864997a-b59c-0dbe-7755-857f33212d90@kopriva.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1068727257835896576==" --===============1068727257835896576== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 04/12/2023 8:26 AM CDT Bernd Kopriva via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 > Thanks for the link ... > ... i will ask him if this my help. >=20 > Thanks Bernd >=20 It may also be useful to contact the CS/EE department(s) at ETH and ask them.= Perhaps they have a copy archived with the project documents. Will --===============1068727257835896576==-- From jos.dreesen@greenmail.ch Wed Apr 12 14:10:10 2023 From: jos To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 16:00:38 +0200 Message-ID: <49fc580c-aa83-d038-53ca-e554c1b27916@greenmail.ch> In-Reply-To: <9e3a491d-eb0f-5845-57c7-b9b6d9235865@kopriva.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5915485158115931759==" --===============5915485158115931759== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11.04.23 18:35, Bernd Kopriva via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > a friend of mine is currently working on a FPGA implementation of the CERES= -3 workstation (cpu-ns32k.net/TRIPUTER.html#Ceres). > He currently lacks of information of the RTC chip M3001 which was manufacto= red by Swiss company Microelectronic-Marin. > Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? > > Thanks Bernd Did you try the company itself ? https://www.emmicroelectronic.com/welcome Also the Ceres source code is available. I have assembler source for the boot= strap of the Ceres-1 system. Jos --===============5915485158115931759==-- From bernd@kopriva.de Wed Apr 12 15:20:42 2023 From: Bernd Kopriva To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 17:20:27 +0200 Message-ID: <80448878-de20-5557-0e78-28d2c6f8e583@kopriva.de> In-Reply-To: <1467155877.4892839.1681307288083@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8179926388448159744==" --===============8179926388448159744== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The "easy to find" documentation for the Ceres-3 was not helpful but he=20 is tying to get in contact with one of the "older" guys that were involved in the developemnt Will Cooke via cctalk wrote on 12/04/2023 15:48: > >> On 04/12/2023 8:26 AM CDT Bernd Kopriva via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> Thanks for the link ... >> ... i will ask him if this my help. >> >> Thanks Bernd >> > It may also be useful to contact the CS/EE department(s) at ETH and ask the= m. Perhaps they have a copy archived with the project documents. > > Will > --===============8179926388448159744==-- From bernd@kopriva.de Wed Apr 12 15:35:30 2023 From: Bernd Kopriva To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 17:35:15 +0200 Message-ID: <8947b495-e184-2c45-ea29-7609b098c082@kopriva.de> In-Reply-To: <49fc580c-aa83-d038-53ca-e554c1b27916@greenmail.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3786238829474417676==" --===============3786238829474417676== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The company could not help ... ... i'm not sure if the sources will help as he is doing a FPGA implementation. The goal is to run the code in the original ROM ... Bernd jos via cctalk wrote on 12/04/2023 16:00: > On 11.04.23 18:35, Bernd Kopriva via cctalk wrote: >> Hi, >> a friend of mine is currently working on a FPGA implementation of the >> CERES-3 workstation (cpu-ns32k.net/TRIPUTER.html#Ceres). >> He currently lacks of information of the RTC chip M3001 which was >> manufactored by Swiss company Microelectronic-Marin. >> Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? >> >> Thanks Bernd > > Did you try the company itself ? > https://www.emmicroelectronic.com/welcome > > Also the Ceres source code is available. I have assembler source for > the bootstrap of the Ceres-1 system. > > Jos > > --===============3786238829474417676==-- From lproven@gmail.com Thu Apr 13 13:38:22 2023 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:38:01 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9e3a491d-eb0f-5845-57c7-b9b6d9235865@kopriva.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3994303853897410902==" --===============3994303853897410902== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 at 17:41, Bernd Kopriva via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? A comment on ****book said: « For me, 'National Semiconductor' and 'RTC' together mean their own design of the MM58167 that was used on the AST multi-I/O and memory expansion adapters for the PC and the PS/2 Model 30. I guess that RTC was sourced differently later. » -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============3994303853897410902==-- From bernd@kopriva.de Thu Apr 13 14:40:06 2023 From: Bernd Kopriva To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Looking for datasheet of RTC M3001 ... Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:39:46 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6289006371498515429==" --===============6289006371498515429== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have compared the pinout of the MM58167 with the diagram given in the Ceres-3 Hardware description ... ... unfortunately, these are completely different, so your assumption seems not be valid :-( Liam Proven via cctalk wrote on 13.04.23 15:38: > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 at 17:41, Bernd Kopriva via cctalk > wrote: >> Does anyone have a pointer to the datasheet ? > A comment on ****book said: > > « > For me, 'National Semiconductor' and 'RTC' together mean their own > design of the MM58167 that was used on the AST multi-I/O and memory > expansion adapters for the PC and the PS/2 Model 30. I guess that RTC > was sourced differently later. > » > --===============6289006371498515429==-- From g-wright@att.net Sat Apr 15 21:45:51 2023 From: AT&T Customer Service To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] more shop clearing Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 21:41:57 +0000 Message-ID: <107474070.2103532.1681594917020@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <107474070.2103532.1681594917020.ref@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6912270886673765352==" --===============6912270886673765352== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I currently have a few Heavy items to move.=20 1 Data General=C2=A0 6030 Disk drive1 Data General 6100 Disk Drive1=C2=A0 HP = 9000 K210 Server with 1 storage enclosure. has drives and is currently workin= g1 CDC 9760 ?? no label on it, looks like=C2=A0 60-62 version1 HP 7970E 9 tra= ck This is in its own console. HPIB interface.1 HP 1000 "F" series computer1 = HP 2753a Paper tape punch=C2=A0 (Tally) 1 HP 7970B 9 Track2 Data General=C2=A0 model 10 desk top computers1 Dec PDP 1= 1/44 with 2 RA80 drives in a short Rack.=C2=A0 Has not been turned on a a few= years.=20 =C2=A0 Missing the top cover.=20 Everything is in good looking condition, but only the HP 9000 and 7970e 9 tra= ck have been running lately.Most of these are over 150 lbs each except the DG= 10s and paper punch. So local pickup - Jerryg-wright(a)att.net --===============6912270886673765352==-- From john@jfloren.net Sat Apr 15 22:10:17 2023 From: John Floren To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: more shop clearing Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 22:02:15 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <107474070.2103532.1681594917020@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7101250824879582158==" --===============7101250824879582158== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Local to where? -------- Original Message -------- On Apr 15, 2023, 2:41 PM, AT&T Customer Service via cctalk wrote: > I currently have a few Heavy items to move. 1 Data General 6030 Disk drive1= Data General 6100 Disk Drive1 HP 9000 K210 Server with 1 storage enclosure. = has drives and is currently working1 CDC 9760 ?? no label on it, looks like 6= 0-62 version1 HP 7970E 9 track This is in its own console. HPIB interface.1 H= P 1000 "F" series computer1 HP 2753a Paper tape punch (Tally) 1 HP 7970B 9 Tr= ack2 Data General model 10 desk top computers1 Dec PDP 11/44 with 2 RA80 driv= es in a short Rack. Has not been turned on a a few years. Missing the top cov= er. Everything is in good looking condition, but only the HP 9000 and 7970e 9= track have been running lately.Most of these are over 150 lbs each except th= e DG 10s and paper punch. So local pickup - Jerryg-wright(a)att.net --===============7101250824879582158==-- From g-wright@att.net Mon Apr 17 01:10:39 2023 From: AT&T Customer Service To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 245, Issue 1 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 01:10:32 +0000 Message-ID: <533577299.2264252.1681693832808@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <168166440638.1516365.3139524337957141477@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5529743654229694323==" --===============5529743654229694323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I forgot to post the location.=C2=A0 I'm in Kent, Washington. USA.=C2= =A0 disregard the AT&T customer service.=C2=A0 Have E-mails in to them. not s= ure what going on there, but its at&tso anything is possible. Jerry253-569-6041g-wright(a)att.net On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 10:00:53 AM PDT, cctalk-request(a)classiccmp= .org wrote: =20 =20 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cctalk(a)classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cctalk-owner(a)classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: =C2=A0 1. more shop clearing (AT&T Customer Service) =C2=A0 2. Re: more shop clearing (John Floren) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 21:41:57 +0000 (UTC) From: AT&T Customer Service Subject: [cctalk] more shop clearing To: "cctalk(a)classiccmp.org" Message-ID: <107474070.2103532.1681594917020(a)mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUTF-8 I currently have a few Heavy items to move.=20 1 Data General=C2=A0 6030 Disk drive1 Data General 6100 Disk Drive1=C2=A0 HP = 9000 K210 Server with 1 storage enclosure. has drives and is currently workin= g1 CDC 9760 ?? no label on it, looks like=C2=A0 60-62 version1 HP 7970E 9 tra= ck This is in its own console. HPIB interface.1 HP 1000 "F" series computer1 = HP 2753a Paper tape punch=C2=A0 (Tally) 1 HP 7970B 9 Track2 Data General=C2=A0 model 10 desk top computers1 Dec PDP 1= 1/44 with 2 RA80 drives in a short Rack.=C2=A0 Has not been turned on a a few= years.=20 =C2=A0 Missing the top cover.=20 Everything is in good looking condition, but only the HP 9000 and 7970e 9 tra= ck have been running lately.Most of these are over 150 lbs each except the DG= 10s and paper punch. So local pickup - Jerryg-wright(a)att.net ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 22:02:15 +0000 From: John Floren Subject: [cctalk] Re: more shop clearing To: g-wright(a)att.net, cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 Local to where? -------- Original Message -------- On Apr 15, 2023, 2:41 PM, AT&T Customer Service via cctalk wrote: > I currently have a few Heavy items to move. 1 Data General 6030 Disk drive1= Data General 6100 Disk Drive1 HP 9000 K210 Server with 1 storage enclosure. = has drives and is currently working1 CDC 9760 ?? no label on it, looks like 6= 0-62 version1 HP 7970E 9 track This is in its own console. HPIB interface.1 H= P 1000 "F" series computer1 HP 2753a Paper tape punch (Tally) 1 HP 7970B 9 Tr= ack2 Data General model 10 desk top computers1 Dec PDP 11/44 with 2 RA80 driv= es in a short Rack. Has not been turned on a a few years. Missing the top cov= er. Everything is in good looking condition, but only the HP 9000 and 7970e 9= track have been running lately.Most of these are over 150 lbs each except th= e DG 10s and paper punch. So local pickup - Jerryg-wright(a)att.net End of cctalk Digest, Vol 245, Issue 1 ************************************** =20 --===============5529743654229694323==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Mon Apr 17 01:18:18 2023 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 245, Issue 1 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:12 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <533577299.2264252.1681693832808@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4360042410923580420==" --===============4360042410923580420== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 17 Apr 2023, AT&T Customer Service via cctalk wrote: > Sorry, I forgot to post the location.  I'm in Kent, Washington. USA.  > disregard the AT&T customer service.  Have E-mails in to them. not sure > what going on there, but its at&tso anything is possible. With a user name of "AT&T Customer Service", we speculated that it might be the Philipines, or India. :-) --===============4360042410923580420==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 15:52:00 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 10:51:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2982567860780537804==" --===============2982567860780537804== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any takers in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights came on when he powered it up a few months ago). I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about this particular item. I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a good home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some contact info. (BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) -Steve / voidstar --===============2982567860780537804==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 16:13:07 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7109499870344354130==" --===============7109499870344354130== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My initial reaction is that $2,000 seems a "bit" optimistic. That being said, I'm surprised to see (on eBay's Terapeak) a couple of these sold within the past year for around $1,100. Sellam On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 8:52 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A > > I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in > the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. > > He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any takers > in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights came > on when he powered it up a few months ago). > > I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about > this particular item. > > I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: > https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ > > I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a good > home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some contact > info. > > (BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) > > -Steve / voidstar > --===============7109499870344354130==-- From jrr@flippers.com Mon Apr 17 16:16:47 2023 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:16:42 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1292006503603743667==" --===============1292006503603743667== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023/04/17 9:12 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > My initial reaction is that $2,000 seems a "bit" optimistic. > > That being said, I'm surprised to see (on eBay's Terapeak) a couple of > these sold within the past year for around $1,100. > > Sellam One sold on eBay for $2492USD...Apr 6, 2023: https://www.ebay.com/itm/225512121074?hash=3Ditem348191e2f2 John :-#)# > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 8:52 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk > wrote: > >> There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A >> >> I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in >> the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. >> >> He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any takers >> in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights came >> on when he powered it up a few months ago). >> >> I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about >> this particular item. >> >> I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: >> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ >> >> I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a good >> home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some contact >> info. >> >> (BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) >> >> -Steve / voidstar >> --=20 John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============1292006503603743667==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 16:18:03 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:17:47 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1831206326962177545==" --===============1831206326962177545== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, somehow that didn't come up in Terapeak search. Crazy. Sellam On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:16 AM John Robertson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2023/04/17 9:12 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > My initial reaction is that $2,000 seems a "bit" optimistic. > > > > That being said, I'm surprised to see (on eBay's Terapeak) a couple of > > these sold within the past year for around $1,100. > > > > Sellam > > One sold on eBay for $2492USD...Apr 6, 2023: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/225512121074?hash=item348191e2f2 > > John :-#)# > > > > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 8:52 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A > >> > >> I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in > >> the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. > >> > >> He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any > takers > >> in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights > came > >> on when he powered it up a few months ago). > >> > >> I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about > >> this particular item. > >> > >> I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: > >> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ > >> > >> I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a > good > >> home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some > contact > >> info. > >> > >> (BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) > >> > >> -Steve / voidstar > >> > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > > --===============1831206326962177545==-- From jrr@flippers.com Mon Apr 17 16:20:31 2023 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:20:17 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7570030130176877650==" --===============7570030130176877650== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to resurrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown out resistor - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code 7943 Revision J. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============7570030130176877650==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Mon Apr 17 16:51:32 2023 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:11:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1913E63F-F664-4F3C-98AD-E2EE46F740DE@beaker.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5944228442628333702==" --===============5944228442628333702== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A 9825a is rare? I couldn't find anyone interested in one with a down power = supply last year. Sold for 500 on ebay On April 17, 2023 11:51:42 AM EDT, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: >There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A > >I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in >the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. > >He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any takers >in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights came >on when he powered it up a few months ago). > >I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about >this particular item. > >I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: >https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ > >I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a good >home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some contact >info. > >(BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) > >-Steve / voidstar --===============5944228442628333702==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 16:52:22 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:52:06 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6425493046549521093==" --===============6425493046549521093== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I decided to buy the 5120 from this same seller, which is how I can vouch for him. It's already damaged, so I don't feel as guilty having it shipped. (no we don't know the exact damage, but by June VCF I'll probably have it opened up and see more on what's going on there) For the HP, I think it's a fair asking price because of all the cables, manuals, and accessories that he's got -- he's got all the SerialIO stuff, so it would be a fun project (to me) to try to write a terminal program and get that calculator on the internet :) Just I've got too many projects going on right now - and after the 5120, I'll really be struggling for space. But yes, he's at a point where he just needs to clear out space, which is why he might even go half his asking price (especially for a local pick up)? I think he's going to post it on eBay within the next month. As for rarity - I'm not sure. I think the HP9825 is actually from the year 1976 (that should be good for having a more recent power supply, so more likely to remain as a working system?), so a HP9830 would be a more sought out item. Also the 9825 uses HP's "HPL" (or something), not quite "normal BASIC." And if no "monitor" or machine code input is available, not sure how much custom software could be written. -Steve On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 11:18 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hmm, somehow that didn't come up in Terapeak search. > > Crazy. > > Sellam > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:16 AM John Robertson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 2023/04/17 9:12 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > > My initial reaction is that $2,000 seems a "bit" optimistic. > > > > > > That being said, I'm surprised to see (on eBay's Terapeak) a couple of > > > these sold within the past year for around $1,100. > > > > > > Sellam > > > > One sold on eBay for $2492USD...Apr 6, 2023: > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/225512121074?hash=item348191e2f2 > > > > John :-#)# > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 8:52 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A > > >> > > >> I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go > in > > >> the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. > > >> > > >> He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any > > takers > > >> in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights > > came > > >> on when he powered it up a few months ago). > > >> > > >> I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much > about > > >> this particular item. > > >> > > >> I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: > > >> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ > > >> > > >> I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a > > good > > >> home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some > > contact > > >> info. > > >> > > >> (BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) > > >> > > >> -Steve / voidstar > > >> > > > > -- > > John's Jukes Ltd. > > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > > flippers.com > > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > > > > > --===============6425493046549521093==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 16:53:46 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:53:30 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1913E63F-F664-4F3C-98AD-E2EE46F740DE@beaker.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7286470885153652372==" --===============7286470885153652372== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Uncommon, certainly. But rarity isn't always the primary factor driving price. Sometimes it's desirability. Apparently, enough people covet this machine to pay 4 figures for one. Sellam On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:51 AM Christopher Zach via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > A 9825a is rare? I couldn't find anyone interested in one with a down > power supply last year. Sold for 500 on ebay > > On April 17, 2023 11:51:42 AM EDT, Steve Lewis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A > > > >I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in > >the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. > > > >He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any > takers > >in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights came > >on when he powered it up a few months ago). > > > >I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about > >this particular item. > > > >I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: > >https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ > > > >I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a good > >home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some > contact > >info. > > > >(BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) > > > >-Steve / voidstar > --===============7286470885153652372==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 17:38:27 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:38:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4166314728547665482==" --===============4166314728547665482== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of events I've been to. Link is below. Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe didn't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, maybe they didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to present - so seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out next time. Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. --===============4166314728547665482==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Mon Apr 17 17:52:39 2023 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:52:27 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0739775440734065768==" --===============0739775440734065768== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for taking the time to document the show. I went to the link provided = and only PART 1 and PART 6 link to other pages. Are parts 2-5 just not writte= n yet? Or a bug in the html? 73 Eugene W2HX Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lewis via cctalk =20 Sent: Monday, April 17, 2023 1:38 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Steve Lewis Subject: [cctalk] VCF East 2023 photos Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of events I'= ve been to. Link is below. Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe did= n't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, maybe they = didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to present - so= seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out next time. Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. --===============0739775440734065768==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 17:58:12 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 10:57:57 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0019626010283381100==" --===============0019626010283381100== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steve, Those "kind of geese-bird" geese are indeed geese, known (appropriately enough) as Canadian Honkers. I usually have a gaggle or at least a pair hanging around the pond on my farm as they migrate through. It's not at all surprising that you could hear them 5 stories up. You could probably still hear them if you were 50 stories up. Sellam On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 10:38 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of events > I've been to. Link is below. > > Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe > didn't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, maybe > they didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to > present - so seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out > next time. > > Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. > > https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ > > > Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. > --===============0019626010283381100==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Mon Apr 17 18:02:55 2023 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 18:02:44 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB52690F996F5EC8D0139C5808B59C9=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7933372199154144002==" --===============7933372199154144002== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Links are working now. Maybe a problem on my side, or maybe there were fixed.= But thanks again for posting this 73 Eugene W2HX Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: W2HX via cctalk =20 Sent: Monday, April 17, 2023 1:52 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: W2HX Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Thanks for taking the time to document the show. I went to the link provided = and only PART 1 and PART 6 link to other pages. Are parts 2-5 just not writte= n yet? Or a bug in the html? 73 Eugene W2HX Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lewis via cctalk =20 Sent: Monday, April 17, 2023 1:38 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Steve Lewis Subject: [cctalk] VCF East 2023 photos Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of events I'= ve been to. Link is below. Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe did= n't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, maybe they = didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to present - so= seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out next time. Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. --===============7933372199154144002==-- From cruff@ruffspot.net Mon Apr 17 18:49:50 2023 From: Craig Ruff To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:15:10 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <168175080766.2770697.16732619020539325871@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2639037351378359008==" --===============2639037351378359008== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 17, 2023, at 11:00, cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > For the HP, I think it's a fair asking price because of all the cables, > manuals, and accessories that he's got -- he's got all the SerialIO > stuff, so it would be a fun project (to me) to try to write a terminal > program and get that calculator on the internet :)=20 The price seems high to me also, but if someone is willing to pay for it. The= tape drive will almost certainly need work. That said, I did write a terminal program for a 9825T in college, but it was = only usable because I had a 9871A printer on which to display the output. It = was a pain to use, but better than waiting for a terminal in the university's= computer center. --===============2639037351378359008==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 19:07:44 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:07:28 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB52690F996F5EC8D0139C5808B59C9=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7686621605074626603==" --===============7686621605074626603== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit W2HX, Im hosted by WordPress - and I've noticed this about their sites, the hyperlinks are sometimes "not selectable" (this includes links in images too). I sometimes I have to "wiggle the page" (scroll up or down a bit) first. I'm not sure if it a little easter egg they do to penalize Windows users, or a browser bug in Edge or something. But I've noticed in other WordPress hosted pages, and also when using an entirely different computer (such as at my parents house in Florida). I've been meaning to send them a support message about it, it's something I've noticed for over a year now. On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 12:52 PM W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Thanks for taking the time to document the show. I went to the link > provided and only PART 1 and PART 6 link to other pages. Are parts 2-5 just > not written yet? Or a bug in the html? > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Lewis via cctalk > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2023 1:38 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: Steve Lewis > Subject: [cctalk] VCF East 2023 photos > > Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of events > I've been to. Link is below. > > Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe > didn't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, maybe > they didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to > present - so seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out > next time. > > Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. > > https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ > > > Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. > --===============7686621605074626603==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 19:17:37 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:17:22 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1241518355.5013922.1681754639128@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4129504088247036438==" --===============4129504088247036438== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Glad the photos help. I hope the average general public wasn't too disappointed or discouraged by the crowd on Saturday - but I tried to think of the positive side, of there still being interest in vintage computing at all. A "web cam" preview of the consignment might have helped that line - some were interested in a specific thing, then to wait 45min in line to find it's already gone. But I guess that's just part of the experience. For exhibits, the interior noise/acustics got loud and made hard to engage and ask questions (since you couldn't even hear them across the table). I also felt a little guilty of intentionally getting there early to get a close parking spot. I mean, I don't think there is anything really wrong with that - but if I know I'm going to be there all day, I wouldn't mind parking further away and taking a shuttle bus. In my defense, I knew I'd be getting things from consignment and wanted to drop them back to the car (I just got some of the laptops). Sellam, thanks for the note about the geese!! Honkers, yes, that's very appropriate! But why Honking at 3am!? haha, maybe I don't want to know!? I'm on travel again for the rest of this week, so kind of rushed to get notes up today before heading back to the airport. -Steve On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:04 PM Brian L. Stuart wrote: > Thank you very much for posting these pictures. I ended up having to > cancel my plans at the last minute due to covid. Yeah, I had succeeded > in avoiding it for 3 years, but it finally caught up to me. > > BLS > > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 05:39:04 PM UTC, Steve Lewis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of events > I've been to. Link is below. > > Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe > didn't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, maybe > they didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to > present - so seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out > next time. > > Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. > > https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ > > > Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. > --===============4129504088247036438==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 19:50:50 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 15:50:33 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7325626244829175845==" --===============7325626244829175845== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Most of these photos were from the 9032 room, not the ballroom's exhibits, but I will share my photos asap too as will others. B On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 3:18 PM Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > Glad the photos help. I hope the average general public wasn't too > disappointed or discouraged by the crowd on Saturday - but I tried to think > of the positive side, of there still being interest in vintage computing at > all. A "web cam" preview of the consignment might have helped that line > - some were interested in a specific thing, then to wait 45min in line to > find it's already gone. But I guess that's just part of the experience. > > For exhibits, the interior noise/acustics got loud and made hard to engage > and ask questions (since you couldn't even hear them across the table). > I also felt a little guilty of intentionally getting there early to get a > close parking spot. I mean, I don't think there is anything really wrong > with that - but if I know I'm going to be there all day, I wouldn't mind > parking further away and taking a shuttle bus. In my defense, I knew I'd > be getting things from consignment and wanted to drop them back to the car > (I just got some of the laptops). > > > Sellam, thanks for the note about the geese!! Honkers, yes, that's very > appropriate! But why Honking at 3am!? haha, maybe I don't want to know!? > > > I'm on travel again for the rest of this week, so kind of rushed to get > notes up today before heading back to the airport. > > > -Steve > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:04 PM Brian L. Stuart > wrote: > > > Thank you very much for posting these pictures. I ended up having to > > cancel my plans at the last minute due to covid. Yeah, I had succeeded > > in avoiding it for 3 years, but it finally caught up to me. > > > > BLS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 05:39:04 PM UTC, Steve Lewis via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Videos are nice, but I still like to make a kind of "scrap book" of > events > > I've been to. Link is below. > > > > Also, most exhibitors were occupied interacting with the public and maybe > > didn't get a chance to see what else was presented at this VCF. Or, > maybe > > they didn't get to see what all else the museum and local area had to > > present - so seeing photos might give them ideas of things to check out > > next time. > > > > Or, in general, for anyone not able to attend, here are some photos also. > > > > https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023/ > > > > > > Feel free to use/share, no permission needed. > > > --===============7325626244829175845==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Mon Apr 17 21:40:32 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:40:16 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1003734659849621927==" --===============1003734659849621927== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 12:17 PM Steve Lewis via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Glad the photos help. I hope the average general public wasn't too > disappointed or discouraged by the crowd on Saturday - but I tried to think > of the positive side, of there still being interest in vintage computing at > all. A "web cam" preview of the consignment might have helped that line > - some were interested in a specific thing, then to wait 45min in line to > find it's already gone. But I guess that's just part of the experience. > It shouldn't be "part of the experience". It's poor planning and poor management of the consignment area on the part of the organizers. This same thing happened at VCF "West" last year and it was a catastrophe. There was a line snaking down the hallway at least a fifty people deep and they were waiting for 2-3 HOURS before it actually started moving. That was 2-3 hours that attendees weren't in the exhibit/speaker hall engaging with the exhibitors and their exhibits, and listening to the speakers. I'm really disappointed to hear that, despite their prior experience, it seems like they have not done anything to address this completely unacceptable and entirely avoidable scenario. Sellam, thanks for the note about the geese!! Honkers, yes, that's very > appropriate! But why Honking at 3am!? haha, maybe I don't want to know!? > 3am? If that was happening around here then the shotgun would get involved. Must be mating season. Sellam --===============1003734659849621927==-- From legalize@xmission.com Mon Apr 17 22:22:09 2023 From: Richard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 16:21:55 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0904863833824220572==" --===============0904863833824220572== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article , "Craig Ruff via cctalk" writes: > > > On Apr 17, 2023, at 11:00, cctalk-request(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > > For the HP, I think it's a fair asking price because of all the cables, > > manuals, and accessories that he's got -- he's got all the SerialIO > > stuff, so it would be a fun project (to me) to try to write a terminal > > program and get that calculator on the internet :) > > The price seems high to me also, but if someone is willing to pay for it. A unit that has been cared for over the years by a single owner and contains all the associated ephemera (manuals, cords, cases, etc.) in good condition is certainly the sort of thing that commands a price at the high end of the range. It's not like we're talking about a barn find covered in pidgeon poop. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Terminals Wiki The Computer Graphics Museum Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) --===============0904863833824220572==-- From linimon@portsmon.org Mon Apr 17 22:57:42 2023 From: Mark Linimon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1282321283.1518350.1681772252769@privateemail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3790855536429285515==" --===============3790855536429285515== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 04/17/2023 9:40 PM GMT Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > 3am? If that was happening around here then the shotgun would get > involved. Must be mating season. The next-to-last time I was in Canada, they let me sleep in all the way to 5a= m. Also note that they were *right* outside the window in my room. The only bad thing about my trip. mcl --===============3790855536429285515==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Tue Apr 18 05:25:09 2023 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 18:27:26 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7735837098580930652==" --===============7735837098580930652== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why don=E2=80=99t you post a picture of the board and see if anyone can id th= e resistor from an intact Adm31 they already own? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 17, 2023, at 09:20, John Robertson via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of= forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to resu= rrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown out resisto= r - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code 7943 Revision J. >=20 > John :-#)# >=20 > --=20 > John's Jukes Ltd. > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" >=20 --===============7735837098580930652==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Tue Apr 18 05:25:13 2023 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 18:32:22 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6302663435996489320==" --===============6302663435996489320== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It's not like we're talking about a barn find covered in pidgeon poop. You'd be amazed at how much a barn find covered in pidgeon poop goes for.... If it works, if it's got all the bits, and a good story then sure, the sky's the limit.... --===============6302663435996489320==-- From cctalk@beyondthepale.ie Tue Apr 18 11:17:45 2023 From: Peter Coghlan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] AT&T Customer Service Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 12:08:46 +0100 Message-ID: <01SQCDTXI6SO8WW2SZ@beyondthepale.ie> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3753840115446313563==" --===============3753840115446313563== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2023, AT&T Customer Service via cctalk wrote: >> Sorry, I forgot to post the location.  I'm in Kent, Washington. USA.  >> disregard the AT&T customer service.  Have E-mails in to them. not sure >> what going on there, but its at&tso anything is possible. > > With a user name of "AT&T Customer Service", we speculated that it might > be the Philipines, or India. :-) > Is there a country called Oxymoronia? --===============3753840115446313563==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 13:51:01 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:50:35 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3917810814414516558==" --===============3917810814414516558== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the root cause. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 12:20 AM John Robertson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of > forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to > resurrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown > out resistor - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code > 7943 Revision J. > > John :-#)# > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > > --===============3917810814414516558==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 13:59:56 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:59:37 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2744412903251839410==" --===============2744412903251839410== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Ebay listing hasn't sold but has been relisted at the same price. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 12:16 AM John Robertson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2023/04/17 9:12 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > My initial reaction is that $2,000 seems a "bit" optimistic. > > > > That being said, I'm surprised to see (on eBay's Terapeak) a couple of > > these sold within the past year for around $1,100. > > > > Sellam > > One sold on eBay for $2492USD...Apr 6, 2023: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/225512121074?hash=item348191e2f2 > > John :-#)# > > > > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 8:52 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A > >> > >> I believe he is the original owner. It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in > >> the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left. > >> > >> He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any > takers > >> in VCF East). As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights > came > >> on when he powered it up a few months ago). > >> > >> I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about > >> this particular item. > >> > >> I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page: > >> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/ > >> > >> I may try a VCF forum topic about it. Just trying to help him find a > good > >> home for the equipment. E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some > contact > >> info. > >> > >> (BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??) > >> > >> -Steve / voidstar > >> > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > > --===============2744412903251839410==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 14:09:24 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:09:01 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3051744790978681642==" --===============3051744790978681642== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 6:59 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > The Ebay listing hasn't sold but has been relisted at the same price. > Indeed, it appears to be: https://www.ebay.com/itm/225514573805 Non-paying "buyer"? Or shenanigans? Sellam > --===============3051744790978681642==-- From roycetaft@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 14:24:39 2023 From: Royce Taft To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:24:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4795002586869022377==" --===============4795002586869022377== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve found that following traces and identifying components that conn= ect to either side of the failed resistor is usually a good start for finding= root cause. Shorted power transistors, diodes, or portions of bridge rectifiers have been= the root cause of cascading failures in my cases.=20 -Royce > On Apr 18, 2023, at 06:51, Tom Hunter via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThe blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. > The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the > root cause. >=20 >> On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 12:20=E2=80=AFAM John Robertson via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>=20 >> I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of >> forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to >> resurrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown >> out resistor - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code >> 7943 Revision J. >>=20 >> John :-#)# >>=20 >> -- >> John's Jukes Ltd. >> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 >> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) >> flippers.com >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" >>=20 >>=20 --===============4795002586869022377==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 16:40:22 2023 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 17:40:06 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7239691979502929797==" --===============7239691979502929797== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 2:51 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. > The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the > root cause. As soon as I saw 'Boschert' mental alarm bells triggered.... Boschert made a particularly unfriendly (to the repairer) type of SMPSU which I call the '2 stage'. I can explain how it works if necessary, but be warned that with one of those if a particular power transistor fails (and it often does), it takes out a couple of other power transistors, the current sense resistor, numerous small transistors, the regulator chip, the fuse and sometime PCB tracks. They're not all like that, but I will agree that a burnt-out resistor in an SMPSU nearly always means other components have failed. It's likely the same PSU was used in other devices, you might want to look through all the service manuals you can find to see if it turns up. Can you make a photo of the PSU available somewhere in case somebody recognises it. -tony > > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 12:20 AM John Robertson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of > > forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to > > resurrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown > > out resistor - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code > > 7943 Revision J. > > > > John :-#)# > > > > -- > > John's Jukes Ltd. > > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > > flippers.com > > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > > > > --===============7239691979502929797==-- From cclist@sydex.com Tue Apr 18 17:27:49 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 10:27:39 -0700 Message-ID: <8605a893-3e3f-cbce-24a6-a8714d1571df@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3856757890233758567==" --===============3856757890233758567== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/18/23 09:40, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 2:51 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: >> >> The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. >> The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the >> root cause. > > > As soon as I saw 'Boschert' mental alarm bells triggered.... > > Boschert made a particularly unfriendly (to the repairer) type of > SMPSU which I call the '2 stage'. I can explain how it works if > necessary, but be warned that with one of those if a particular power > transistor fails (and it often does), it takes out a couple of other > power transistors, the current sense resistor, numerous small > transistors, the regulator chip, the fuse and sometime PCB tracks. True, but Bob Boschert was a pioneer in the field working with what components were available. So don't be too hard on him. --Chuck --===============3856757890233758567==-- From ethan@757.org Tue Apr 18 18:04:50 2023 From: Ethan O'Toole To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF East 2023 photos Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 14:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4350305618856370665==" --===============4350305618856370665== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It shouldn't be "part of the experience". It's poor planning and poor > management of the consignment area on the part of the organizers. This > same thing happened at VCF "West" last year and it was a catastrophe. > There was a line snaking down the hallway at least a fifty people deep and > they were waiting for 2-3 HOURS before it actually started moving. That > was 2-3 hours that attendees weren't in the exhibit/speaker hall engaging > with the exhibitors and their exhibits, and listening to the speakers. I'm > really disappointed to hear that, despite their prior experience, it seems > like they have not done anything to address this completely unacceptable > and entirely avoidable scenario. Every bit of space that is currently available at InfoAge was used for the event. Attendence jumped over prior years and the demand was unpredictable. The weather in that area can be cold and rainy so outdoors use is limited in planning. I figured there would be blowout attendence at the 3pm streamer panel in Saturday, but crowd wasn't an issue. Meanwhile at the dedicated swap meets at InfoAge attendence wasn't that crazy at the last one. Maybe it's because it's tax return time? If VCF could raise enough money to finish off their new space at InfoAge and get a CO that would help a ton next year. But that is quite a bit of money intertwined with government legal red tape. Trust me there will be big discussions about how to try to fix it for the future. Also the event could use more volunteers for next year as well. - Ethan --===============4350305618856370665==-- From drb@msu.edu Tue Apr 18 18:27:15 2023 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Delivery woes Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 14:27:10 -0400 Message-ID: <20230418182710.8E4503481CD@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5826347301001642883==" --===============5826347301001642883== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, As I try to track down why various subscribers are getting booted from the list in the last couple of days, I'm noticing that a number of you are subscribed from an address that forwards elsewhere. This works poorly. TL;DR follows, but basically this is brought to you by the fact that modern email sucks almost as much because of the anti-spam processes as because of the spam itself. In the modern world, forwarding is pretty much dead on arrival. Avoid it where possible. I'll be over here swearing right along with you. TL;DR: to be able to deliver any email at all these days, we have to comply with a couple of schemes designed to make it harder to forge mail -- DKIM and SPF. The combined effect of making the necessary declarations in the DNS entries for classiccmp.org is that if you try to forward mail, you look like you're _impersonating_ classiccmp.org. Many large providers (google, yahoo, etc.) refuse such mail. The same anti-spam mechanisms also make it difficult to run a proper RFC compliant mailing list, because then classiccmp.org would be sending mail with _your_ From: address, making classiccmp.org look like an impersonator. Still $w34ring. Cheers, De --===============5826347301001642883==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 19:18:12 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Delivery woes Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:17:56 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20230418182710.8E4503481CD@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0239390455319426574==" --===============0239390455319426574== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail lists are harder to manage, and why forums and social media have supplanted them. I have brought this same subject up before, but not everyone seems to be interested in or has access to manage their DNS this way in a practical manner. I throw this back at the CPANELs and such of the world to make things like SPF and DKIM part of the account set up. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 2:27 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Folks, > > As I try to track down why various subscribers are getting booted from > the list in the last couple of days, I'm noticing that a number of you > are subscribed from an address that forwards elsewhere. > > This works poorly. > > TL;DR follows, but basically this is brought to you by the fact that > modern email sucks almost as much because of the anti-spam processes as > because of the spam itself. In the modern world, forwarding is pretty > much dead on arrival. Avoid it where possible. I'll be over here > swearing right along with you. > > TL;DR: to be able to deliver any email at all these days, we have to > comply with a couple of schemes designed to make it harder to forge mail > -- DKIM and SPF. The combined effect of making the necessary > declarations in the DNS entries for classiccmp.org is that if you try to > forward mail, you look like you're _impersonating_ classiccmp.org. Many > large providers (google, yahoo, etc.) refuse such mail. > > The same anti-spam mechanisms also make it difficult to run a proper RFC > compliant mailing list, because then classiccmp.org would be sending > mail with _your_ From: address, making classiccmp.org look like an > impersonator. Still $w34ring. > > Cheers, > > De > --===============0239390455319426574==-- From jrr@flippers.com Tue Apr 18 22:03:44 2023 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:03:36 -0700 Message-ID: <287a241b-f7d1-7cb2-6018-91988adb9178@flippers.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4704453207207524912==" --===============4704453207207524912== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023/04/18 9:40 a.m., Tony Duell wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 2:51=E2=80=AFPM Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: >> The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. >> The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the >> root cause. > > As soon as I saw 'Boschert' mental alarm bells triggered.... > > Boschert made a particularly unfriendly (to the repairer) type of > SMPSU which I call the '2 stage'. I can explain how it works if > necessary, but be warned that with one of those if a particular power > transistor fails (and it often does), it takes out a couple of other > power transistors, the current sense resistor, numerous small > transistors, the regulator chip, the fuse and sometime PCB tracks. > > They're not all like that, but I will agree that a burnt-out resistor > in an SMPSU nearly always means other components have failed. > > It's likely the same PSU was used in other devices, you might want to > look through all the service manuals you can find to see if it turns > up. Can you make a photo of the PSU available somewhere in case > somebody recognises it. > > -tony I like to start with schematics before poking too much... Photo of the SMPSU: https://www.flippers.com/images/ADM31_Terminal/Boschert_1001_ADM31_PowerSuppl= y.jpg Burnt Resistor: https://www.flippers.com/images/ADM31_Terminal/Boschert_1001_ADM31_PowerSuppl= y-burnt_resistor.jpg Schematics preferred, under the power supply is one I found on bitsavers=20 for a slightly later model terminal. If needed I will draw them up=20 myself, I just don't want to spend a couple of hours sketching it out if=20 I can find a proper drawing. I assume bad caps (will replace with low-ESR high temp), and possibly=20 blown transistor(s)... *And Gregory Beat sent me a link that covers the 1001 SMPS very neatly:* http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/boschert/Boschert_OL25_Single-Stage_Power_Supply= _Maintenance_Manual_May79.pdf and it was buried on bitsavers - where I went before bothering the list! Thanks folks! John :-#)# > > > >> On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 12:20=E2=80=AFAM John Robertson via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >>> I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of >>> forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to >>> resurrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown >>> out resistor - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code >>> 7943 Revision J. >>> >>> John :-#)# >>> >>> -- >>> John's Jukes Ltd. >>> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 >>> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) >>> flippers.com >>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" >>> >>> --=20 John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============4704453207207524912==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Tue Apr 18 22:16:27 2023 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:16:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <287a241b-f7d1-7cb2-6018-91988adb9178@flippers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6288136566278157269==" --===============6288136566278157269== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023/04/18 9:40 a.m., Tony Duell wrote: > The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. > The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the > root cause. Isn't there usually a larger, more critical component, such as a proprietary microprocessor, to blow out to protect the resistor? --===============6288136566278157269==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Tue Apr 18 22:42:48 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:42:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2967637220715782910==" --===============2967637220715782910== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 3:16=E2=80=AFPM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On 2023/04/18 9:40 a.m., Tony Duell wrote: > > The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. > > The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the > > root cause. > > Isn't there usually a larger, more critical component, such as a > proprietary microprocessor, to blow out to protect the resistor? > That's only true with Commodore 64's. Sellam --===============2967637220715782910==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Wed Apr 19 01:37:50 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 09:37:32 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2527375257101942190==" --===============2527375257101942190== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... or four $20 power transistors to protect a 10 cent fuse like on the DEC VR-14 display. Tom On Wed, 19 Apr 2023, 6:16 am Fred Cisin via cctalk, wrote: > On 2023/04/18 9:40 a.m., Tony Duell wrote: > > The blown out resistor likely has "blown out" for a reason. > > The replacement will probably suffer the same faith unless you find the > > root cause. > > Isn't there usually a larger, more critical component, such as a > proprietary microprocessor, to blow out to protect the resistor? > > --===============2527375257101942190==-- From cclist@sydex.com Wed Apr 19 03:40:50 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 20:15:48 -0700 Message-ID: <03e1d1d7-918a-6dc3-7ab3-006145b5ed2f@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8237470260137115038==" --===============8237470260137115038== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/18/23 18:37, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > ... or four $20 power transistors to protect a 10 cent fuse like on the DEC > VR-14 display. A friend who worked as a DEC CE decades ago, said that "transistor-protected fuses" was a standing joke among that community. --Chuck --===============8237470260137115038==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Wed Apr 19 03:48:57 2023 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 04:48:45 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3183528590429258210==" --===============3183528590429258210== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 2:37 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > ... or four $20 power transistors to protect a 10 cent fuse like on the DEC > VR-14 display. In general the transistor(s) will fail short-circuit, thus taking out the fuse too. Some switch-mode power supplies use special fast-acting fuses which can actually be more expensive than the chopper transistor. -tony --===============3183528590429258210==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Wed Apr 19 03:52:06 2023 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 04:51:54 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <287a241b-f7d1-7cb2-6018-91988adb9178@flippers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1758959661935837111==" --===============1758959661935837111== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 11:04=E2=80=AFPM John Robertson via cctalk wrote: > > I like to start with schematics before poking too much... So do I. > > I assume bad caps (will replace with low-ESR high temp), and possibly > blown transistor(s)... > > *And Gregory Beat sent me a link that covers the 1001 SMPS very neatly:* > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/boschert/Boschert_OL25_Single-Stage_Power_Supp= ly_Maintenance_Manual_May79.pdf > > and it was buried on bitsavers - where I went before bothering the list! That is clearly not one of the '2 stage' ones that fail in spectacular ways. It's a relatively conventional SMPSU and shouldn't be too hard to sort out. -tony > > Thanks folks! > > John :-#)# > > > > > > > > >> On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 12:20=E2=80=AFAM John Robertson via cctalk < > >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >>> I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of > >>> forums, but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to > >>> resurrect. The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown > >>> out resistor - the switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code > >>> 7943 Revision J. > >>> > >>> John :-#)# > >>> > >>> -- > >>> John's Jukes Ltd. > >>> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > >>> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > >>> flippers.com > >>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > >>> > >>> > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. > 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > --===============1758959661935837111==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Wed Apr 19 05:39:59 2023 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 00:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7935331852385318711==" --===============7935331852385318711== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a similar shenanigans vein, I've no explanation for the $20k+ IBM 5120's being listed. I think one of them has been listed as such for over a year now. - Steve v* On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 9:09 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 6:59 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk > > wrote: > > > The Ebay listing hasn't sold but has been relisted at the same price. > > > > Indeed, it appears to be: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/225514573805 > > Non-paying "buyer"? Or shenanigans? > > Sellam > > > > --===============7935331852385318711==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Wed Apr 19 09:44:30 2023 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:44:14 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4036273907695209434==" --===============4036273907695209434== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's no mystery here, it's just someone being either greedy or overly aspirational. A $1k item that sells is worth more than a $20k one that doesn't. Ebay listing fees are free, so you're free to be as aspirational as you like for as long as you like. -Henry On Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 01:40 Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > In a similar shenanigans vein, I've no explanation for the $20k+ IBM > 5120's being listed. I think one of them has been listed as such for > over a year now. > > - Steve v* > > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 9:09 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 6:59 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > > > > wrote: > > > > > The Ebay listing hasn't sold but has been relisted at the same price. > > > > > > > Indeed, it appears to be: > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/225514573805 > > > > Non-paying "buyer"? Or shenanigans? > > > > Sellam > > > > > > > > --===============4036273907695209434==-- From drb@msu.edu Thu Apr 20 00:23:19 2023 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Mail veracity signing Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: <20230420002314.7A16446A3CE@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0852407114329367194==" --===============0852407114329367194== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no mistakes in the configuration, but... :) I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. De --===============0852407114329367194==-- From drb@msu.edu Fri Apr 21 00:32:56 2023 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Mail veracity signing Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:32:50 -0400 Message-ID: <20230421003250.96655488B2B@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7015442289414169019==" --===============7015442289414169019== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no mistakes in the configuration, but... :) I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. De --===============7015442289414169019==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Apr 21 00:38:45 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Mail veracity signing Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:38:37 -0400 Message-ID: <6B70F8A0-6214-46CE-857F-BE57625EB16C@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20230421003250.96655488B2B@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2079266359524463820==" --===============2079266359524463820== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your note got through, that's a promising start. Let's hope this change help= s. paul > On Apr 20, 2023, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Folks, >=20 > A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality > in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no > mistakes in the configuration, but... :) >=20 > I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. >=20 > De --===============2079266359524463820==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Fri Apr 21 00:56:50 2023 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Mail veracity signing Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 17:50:31 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6B70F8A0-6214-46CE-857F-BE57625EB16C@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2150279699862732730==" --===============2150279699862732730== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That was rather my thought, it made it through. Zane > On Apr 20, 2023, at 5:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Your note got through, that's a promising start. Let's hope this change he= lps. >=20 > paul >=20 >> On Apr 20, 2023, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality >> in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no >> mistakes in the configuration, but... :) >>=20 >> I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. >>=20 >> De >=20 --===============2150279699862732730==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Fri Apr 21 02:03:24 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Mail veracity signing Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 10:03:06 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7348458171443660932==" --===============7348458171443660932== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It got all the way Down Under. 8-) On Fri, 21 Apr 2023, 8:56 am Zane Healy via cctalk, wrote: > That was rather my thought, it made it through. > > Zane > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2023, at 5:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Your note got through, that's a promising start. Let's hope this change > helps. > > > > paul > > > >> On Apr 20, 2023, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> Folks, > >> > >> A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality > >> in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no > >> mistakes in the configuration, but... :) > >> > >> I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. > >> > >> De > > > > --===============7348458171443660932==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Fri Apr 21 13:52:28 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Mail veracity signing Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 09:52:05 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1728897538893165577==" --===============1728897538893165577== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Got to me Apr 21, 2023. On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:03 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > It got all the way Down Under. 8-) > > > On Fri, 21 Apr 2023, 8:56 am Zane Healy via cctalk, > > wrote: > > > That was rather my thought, it made it through. > > > > Zane > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2023, at 5:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > Your note got through, that's a promising start. Let's hope this > change > > helps. > > > > > > paul > > > > > >> On Apr 20, 2023, at 8:32 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> Folks, > > >> > > >> A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing > functionality > > >> in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no > > >> mistakes in the configuration, but... :) > > >> > > >> I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. > > >> > > >> De > > > > > > > > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============1728897538893165577==-- From doc@vaxen.net Fri Apr 21 19:41:21 2023 From: Doc Shipley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Mail veracity signing Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:33:42 -0500 Message-ID: <063e1fcb-e652-ef13-c417-5e52766f2964@vaxen.net> In-Reply-To: <20230421003250.96655488B2B@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2557448623708513810==" --===============2557448623708513810== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got it, and vaxen.net is a private "virtualdomain" server running on a private email server. None of that is necessarily complicated but it's not your average Google Services mail domain. Thanks for the work you're putting in! Doc On 4/20/23 19:32, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Folks, > > A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality > in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no > mistakes in the configuration, but... :) > > I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. > > De > --===============2557448623708513810==-- From c.murray.mccullough@gmail.com Sat Apr 22 01:59:21 2023 From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Magazine no longer in print Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 21:59:05 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0176090418230722203==" --===============0176090418230722203== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I read today that “Maximum PC” is no longer in print just in digital. Past issues are available in digitized format but it’s not the same as reading a magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be stopped… Happy computing. Murray 🙂 --===============0176090418230722203==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sat Apr 22 02:04:11 2023 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 19:04:06 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5629061120229972585==" --===============5629061120229972585== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 21 Apr 2023, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > I read today that =E2=80=9CMaximum PC=E2=80=9D is no longer in print just i= n digital. Past > issues are available in digitized format but it=E2=80=99s not the same as r= eading a > magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be > stopped=E2=80=A6 > Happy computing. > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 Ah, but who decides what is "progress"? (and, if it is "progress", then what is "congress"?) A "tablet" is not the same as a dead-tree edition, but we have to get used to it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============5629061120229972585==-- From Michael@jongleur.co.uk Sat Apr 22 02:07:06 2023 From: Michael Mulhern To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 12:06:48 +1000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6588283384649468094==" --===============6588283384649468094== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You could print it on one of those old 2D printers that uses sheets of dead tree flesh as a substrate. //m On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 at 12:04 pm, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, 21 Apr 2023, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > > I read today that “Maximum PC” is no longer in print just in digital. > Past > > issues are available in digitized format but it’s not the same as > reading a > > magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be > > stopped… > > Happy computing. > > Murray 🙂 > > Ah, but who decides what is "progress"? > (and, if it is "progress", then what is "congress"?) > > > A "tablet" is not the same as a dead-tree edition, > but we have to get used to it. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com -- *Blog: RetroRetrospective – Fun today with yesterday's gear…….. * *Podcast*: *Retro Computing Roundtable * (Co-Host) --===============6588283384649468094==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sat Apr 22 02:09:02 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 19:08:37 -0700 Message-ID: <6C545417-670D-4E16-8BAC-DF7BA56BD2DB@infocom.ai> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1048855752526926527==" --===============1048855752526926527== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative comput= ing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick one to read e= ach day. It is always a great feeling to read the actual magazines as if it = were the eighties (or late seventies)=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI read today that =E2=80=9CMaximum PC=E2=80=9D is no longer in pri= nt just in digital. Past > issues are available in digitized format but it=E2=80=99s not the same as r= eading a > magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be > stopped=E2=80=A6 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Happy computing. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 --===============1048855752526926527==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Apr 22 02:29:58 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 22:29:41 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6C545417-670D-4E16-8BAC-DF7BA56BD2DB@infocom.ai> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3979735103630742629==" --===============3979735103630742629== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I saved a few years of that one, my favorite for a while B On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:09 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative > computing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick one > to read each day. It is always a great feeling to read the actual > magazines as if it were the eighties (or late seventies) > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > > > On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFI read today that =E2=80=9CMaximum PC=E2=80=9D is no longer in p= rint just in digital. > Past > > issues are available in digitized format but it=E2=80=99s not the same as > reading a > > magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be > > stopped=E2=80=A6 > > > > > > > > Happy computing. > > > > > > > > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 > --===============3979735103630742629==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sat Apr 22 02:34:17 2023 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 02:34:12 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6884133480286268121==" --===============6884133480286268121== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not progress just consolidation of the pc manufacturing industry. They lost m= ost of their advertising last year so most of their revenue. Most print publi= cations have done the same. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 21, 2023, at 19:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI saved a few years of that one, my favorite for a while > B >=20 >> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:09 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>=20 >> Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative >> computing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick one >> to read each day. It is always a great feeling to read the actual >> magazines as if it were the eighties (or late seventies) >>=20 >> Regards, >> Tarek Hoteit >>=20 >>> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFI read today that =E2=80=9CMaximum PC=E2=80=9D is no longer in p= rint just in digital. >> Past >>> issues are available in digitized format but it=E2=80=99s not the same as >> reading a >>> magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be >>> stopped=E2=80=A6 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Happy computing. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Murray =F0=9F=99=82 >>=20 --===============6884133480286268121==-- From Michael@jongleur.co.uk Sat Apr 22 02:38:26 2023 From: Michael Mulhern To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 12:38:08 +1000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6C545417-670D-4E16-8BAC-DF7BA56BD2DB@infocom.ai> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2994640076241699677==" --===============2994640076241699677== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, me too. I try to buy a year=E2=80=99s issues, if I can, so I can read th= em monthly, just like =E2=80=9Cin the good old days". //m On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 at 12:09 pm, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative > computing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick one > to read each day. It is always a great feeling to read the actual > magazines as if it were the eighties (or late seventies) > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > > > On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFI read today that =E2=80=9CMaximum PC=E2=80=9D is no longer in p= rint just in digital. > Past > > issues are available in digitized format but it=E2=80=99s not the same as > reading a > > magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be > > stopped=E2=80=A6 > > > > > > > > Happy computing. > > > > > > > > Murray =F0=9F=99=82 > --=20 *Blog: RetroRetrospective =E2=80=93 Fun today with yesterday's gear=E2=80=A6= =E2=80=A6.. * *Podcast*: *Retro Computing Roundtable * (Co-Host) --===============2994640076241699677==-- From doug@doughq.com Sat Apr 22 04:15:50 2023 From: Doug Jackson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 14:08:48 +1000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCY4PR1001MB218178A590545710C7516A78E4619=40CY4PR10?= =?utf-8?q?01MB2181=2Enamprd10=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8257677819911410603==" --===============8257677819911410603== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's the crux of it. Without advertisers magazines are too expensive. As advertisers needs change they move to diferent media. It's frustrating. But part of the world in which we live. On Sat, 22 Apr 2023, 12:34 pm Wayne S via cctalk, wrote: > Not progress just consolidation of the pc manufacturing industry. They > lost most of their advertising last year so most of their revenue. Most > print publications have done the same. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 21, 2023, at 19:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFI saved a few years of that one, my favorite for a while > > B > > > >> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:09 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < > >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative > >> computing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick > one > >> to read each day. It is always a great feeling to read the actual > >> magazines as if it were the eighties (or late seventies) > >> > >> Regards, > >> Tarek Hoteit > >> > >>> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk < > >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> =EF=BB=BFI read today that =E2=80=9CMaximum PC=E2=80=9D is no longer in= print just in digital. > >> Past > >>> issues are available in digitized format but it=E2=80=99s not the same = as > >> reading a > >>> magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not > be > >>> stopped=E2=80=A6 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Happy computing. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Murray =F0=9F=99=82 > >> > --===============8257677819911410603==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Apr 22 04:53:31 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 21:53:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7264208099984651196==" --===============7264208099984651196== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/21/23 21:08, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: > That's the crux of it. > > Without advertisers magazines are too expensive. As advertisers needs > change they move to diferent media. > > It's frustrating. But part of the world in which we live. > Add to that, newspapers in print, broadcast TV and radio. Brave New World. --Chuck --===============7264208099984651196==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sat Apr 22 05:02:17 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 22:01:52 -0700 Message-ID: <21BB1F68-1503-4ABB-ADCE-776243DB8ABD@infocom.ai> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7344580372168867713==" --===============7344580372168867713== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Funny you mentioned Brave New World. Just two hours ago I bought the book at = Target. What a coincidence=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 21, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 4/21/23 21:08, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: >> That's the crux of it. >>=20 >> Without advertisers magazines are too expensive. As advertisers needs >> change they move to diferent media. >>=20 >> It's frustrating. But part of the world in which we live. >>=20 >=20 > Add to that, newspapers in print, broadcast TV and radio. >=20 > Brave New World. >=20 > --Chuck >=20 >=20 --===============7344580372168867713==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sat Apr 22 08:07:09 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 09:07:01 +0100 Message-ID: <000001d974f1$6afe6ea0$40fb4be0$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0473008018473126741==" --===============0473008018473126741== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As some of you may be aware I am trying to find a fault in a Rainbow H7842 PSU. I am using Tony Duell's schematic from here http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/rainbow/duell_schematics/psu.pdf. I have been testing the Control Module by using a bench PSU to supply 15VDC to the input of the 7812 regulator (p2, PSU Sheet 1). My diagnosis shows that the control module is shutting down the PWM (p6, Control Module Sheet 2) because it is detecting an overcurrent in the -12V side (E3d on Control Module sheet 1, although I have determined that it is actually E3c). This seems to be because I measure a steady 0.6V on pin 6 of the transformer (p4, PSU Sheet 3). I just can't imagine where it might be coming from as the chopper won't be running. I had previously removed the transformer and there are no shorts between the pin 5-pin 6 winding and any of the other pins on the transformer. I checked all the DC outputs of the PSU when powering the 7812 from the bench, both on a working PSU and the non-working one. They are all at zero except the -12V output on the non-working PSU, which is +0.6V. But the voltage can't come out of nowhere. I am stumped and would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks Rob --===============0473008018473126741==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Sat Apr 22 15:30:52 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 11:30:36 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <21BB1F68-1503-4ABB-ADCE-776243DB8ABD@infocom.ai> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0567280491287078209==" --===============0567280491287078209== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well still in print is Linux Journal and Linux Format. Ken On Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 1:02 AM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: > Funny you mentioned Brave New World. Just two hours ago I bought the book > at Target. What a coincidence > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > > > On Apr 21, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn 4/21/23 21:08, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: > >> That's the crux of it. > >> > >> Without advertisers magazines are too expensive. As advertisers needs > >> change they move to diferent media. > >> > >> It's frustrating. But part of the world in which we live. > >> > > > > Add to that, newspapers in print, broadcast TV and radio. > > > > Brave New World. > > > > --Chuck > > > > > --===============0567280491287078209==-- From amp1ron@gmail.com Sat Apr 22 15:57:38 2023 From: amp1ron@gmail.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 11:57:33 -0400 Message-ID: <00b401d97533$272665b0$75733110$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0234562185438917101==" --===============0234562185438917101== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Juiced.GS is still publishing, with new a new issue delivered each quarter. = I subscribe and am always happy to see the latest issue delivered to me by th= e post office. But I've never seen a copy at a newsstand or book store. https://juiced.gs/ "Juiced.GS is a quarterly print magazine devoted to all models of Apple II co= mputers, featuring exclusive reviews, interviews, and tutorials for all Apple= II users." -- Ron --===============0234562185438917101==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Apr 22 17:14:48 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 10:14:38 -0700 Message-ID: <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <00b401d97533$272665b0$75733110$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6572239656600550462==" --===============6572239656600550462== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. --Chuck --===============6572239656600550462==-- From cctalk@beyondthepale.ie Sat Apr 22 20:40:17 2023 From: Peter Coghlan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 21:28:29 +0100 Message-ID: <01SQIISTYPOS8WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> In-Reply-To: <000001d974f1$6afe6ea0$40fb4be0$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2602004932401241440==" --===============2602004932401241440== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This seems to be because I measure a steady 0.6V on pin 6 of the transformer > (p4, PSU Sheet 3). I just can't imagine where it might be coming from as the > chopper won't be running. I had previously removed the transformer and there > are no shorts between the pin 5-pin 6 winding and any of the other pins on > the transformer. I checked all the DC outputs of the PSU when powering the > 7812 from the bench, both on a working PSU and the non-working one. They are > all at zero except the -12V output on the non-working PSU, which is +0.6V. > But the voltage can't come out of nowhere. > Is the -12V output connected to it's load while you are testing? If so, perhaps there is a path through the load to the the +12V or +15V supplys available elsewhere which would forward bias the two diodes connected to pin 6 of the transformer giving you a small positive voltage at that point. (I would have thought it would be a bit higher though, depending on the type of diode. Neither of the two diodes is shorted, is it?) --===============2602004932401241440==-- From drb@msu.edu Sat Apr 22 22:18:53 2023 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] ESDI drive imaging Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 18:18:39 -0400 Message-ID: <20230422221839.9C19419EC5D@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0287346331579853010==" --===============0287346331579853010== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I know the answer to this, but just in case: Is there a way to image ESDI disks other than to hook them up to their usual host controller and use the host? E.g. for MFM, I'd grab the MFM Emulator board. Cheers, De --===============0287346331579853010==-- From cube1@charter.net Sat Apr 22 23:21:42 2023 From: Jay Jaeger To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Continental 50 Pin connector vs. AMP 200276 50 pin connector - same? Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 18:14:24 -0500 Message-ID: <5fb3f9f0-c08b-87f2-c1b0-fff3c0503a8b@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2577923616225792109==" --===============2577923616225792109== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have an HP 2875B paper tape drive that I want to interface to. It has a 50 pin block connector (using well under 1/2 the pins). The connector manufacturer was Continental. I have already discovered, the hard way, that it is not a winchester connector - the pins on the 50 pin Winchester connector I just obtained via ePay that otherwise fits are too small in diameter and won't make contact. I *could* increase their diameter using solder - but -- yuck. The other connectors of this sort I am familiar with that have the same general overall size and pinout were made by AMP. Does any one know if the AMP connectors and the Continental connectors would be compatible? Thanks. JRJ --===============2577923616225792109==-- From cctalk@beyondthepale.ie Sat Apr 22 23:33:19 2023 From: Peter Coghlan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 23:53:05 +0100 Message-ID: <01SQIOPGU9D48WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> In-Reply-To: <000001d974f1$6afe6ea0$40fb4be0$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7960423505803470482==" --===============7960423505803470482== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This seems to be because I measure a steady 0.6V on pin 6 of the transformer > (p4, PSU Sheet 3). I just can't imagine where it might be coming from as the > chopper won't be running. I had previously removed the transformer and there > are no shorts between the pin 5-pin 6 winding and any of the other pins on > the transformer. I checked all the DC outputs of the PSU when powering the > 7812 from the bench, both on a working PSU and the non-working one. They are > all at zero except the -12V output on the non-working PSU, which is +0.6V. > But the voltage can't come out of nowhere. > I've looked at it some more. On page 5 (control module sheet 1), at the non-inverting input of E1b, there is a 75k resistor and 16k9 I think? resistor between -12V and V2 which is derived from Vstart. Perhaps this would account for the +0.6V? (Ignore what I said earlier about the possibility of one of the two diodes connected to pin 6 of the transformer being shorted. The 51 Ohm (or is it a 5 Ohm?) resistor across one of them would look like a short compared to 75k.) Regards, Peter Coghlan. --===============7960423505803470482==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Apr 22 23:44:12 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ESDI drive imaging Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 16:44:02 -0700 Message-ID: <275e5353-4178-5b7b-6238-47b12f1c0988@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <20230422221839.9C19419EC5D@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7749961631539888785==" --===============7749961631539888785== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/22/23 15:18, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > I think I know the answer to this, but just in case: > > Is there a way to image ESDI disks other than to hook them up to their > usual host controller and use the host? E.g. for MFM, I'd grab the MFM > Emulator board. In my experience, you can use any ESDI controller--the drive has much of the logic on it, similar to IDE, but not quite as integrated. --Chuck --===============7749961631539888785==-- From bear@typewritten.org Sun Apr 23 00:16:00 2023 From: "r.stricklin" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ESDI drive imaging Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:14:49 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <275e5353-4178-5b7b-6238-47b12f1c0988@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7421477354039016412==" --===============7421477354039016412== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 22, 2023, at 4:44 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 4/22/23 15:18, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >> I think I know the answer to this, but just in case: >>=20 >> Is there a way to image ESDI disks other than to hook them up to their >> usual host controller and use the host? E.g. for MFM, I'd grab the MFM >> Emulator board. >=20 > In my experience, you can use any ESDI controller--the drive has much of > the logic on it, similar to IDE, but not quite as integrated. I can=E2=80=99t say that=E2=80=99s been my experience.=20 ok bear. --===============7421477354039016412==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sun Apr 23 00:36:40 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ESDI drive imaging Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:36:25 -0700 Message-ID: <4d612268-7b4e-b67a-b229-1cda45a85b2b@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0071811054150773384==" --===============0071811054150773384== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/22/23 17:14, r.stricklin via cctalk wrote: > > I can’t say that’s been my experience. I guess I've led a sheltered life. I will say that some ESDI controllers do have a bewildering variety of configuration options. And the Q&A for the DTC 6280 does confirm your experience. http://www.franken-online.de/ymmv/files/DTC_Q&A.pdf So, I spoke too quickly. Nevermind. --Chuck --===============0071811054150773384==-- From bhilpert@shaw.ca Sun Apr 23 03:07:06 2023 From: Brent Hilpert To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 19:59:50 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01SQIOPGU9D48WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3161682006129942513==" --===============3161682006129942513== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-Apr-22, at 3:53 PM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: On 2023-Apr-22, at 1:07 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: >> This seems to be because I measure a steady 0.6V on pin 6 of the transform= er >> (p4, PSU Sheet 3). I just can't imagine where it might be coming from as t= he >> chopper won't be running. I had previously removed the transformer and the= re >> are no shorts between the pin 5-pin 6 winding and any of the other pins on >> the transformer. I checked all the DC outputs of the PSU when powering the >> 7812 from the bench, both on a working PSU and the non-working one. They a= re >> all at zero except the -12V output on the non-working PSU, which is +0.6V. >> But the voltage can't come out of nowhere. >=20 > I've looked at it some more. On page 5 (control module sheet 1), at the > non-inverting input of E1b, there is a 75k resistor and 16k9 I think? > resistor between -12V and V2 which is derived from Vstart. Perhaps this > would account for the +0.6V? >=20 > (Ignore what I said earlier about the possibility of one of the two diodes > connected to pin 6 of the transformer being shorted. The 51 Ohm (or is it a > 5 Ohm?) resistor across one of them would look like a short compared to 75k= .) Following on Peter's observation above, note that under normal (as opposed to= test-bench) operation, a limited -12V is supplied at startup by the same lit= tle mains transformer that supplies VStart (schematic: PSU sheet 1).=20 This startup -12V would appear to be or may be required to bias things correc= tly for startup to proceed.=20 It follows that the -12V current-sense shutdown being observed is not (necess= arily) part of the fault being looked for, but just a consequence of the abse= nce of the -12V startup. Also, minor note: not indicated on the schematic is the power supply pin conn= ections for the comparator ICs (E1,2,3) (or I haven't spotted them). Presumab= ly the +supply is VStart, but you might check and record whether the -supply = is GND or is it -12V (and check all 3 ICs). --===============3161682006129942513==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Sun Apr 23 06:34:06 2023 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ESDI drive imaging Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 18:48:19 -0400 Message-ID: <7B78FC4A-814F-4C72-9CC1-9D543BE33CCF@beaker.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: <20230422221839.9C19419EC5D@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7264365536644951347==" --===============7264365536644951347== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not that I know of. Esdi has a much faster data rate and I think that outstri= ps the BBB solution. C On April 22, 2023 6:18:39 PM EDT, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >I think I know the answer to this, but just in case: > >Is there a way to image ESDI disks other than to hook them up to their >usual host controller and use the host? E.g. for MFM, I'd grab the MFM >Emulator board. > >Cheers, > >De --===============7264365536644951347==-- From mattislind@gmail.com Sun Apr 23 07:31:35 2023 From: Mattis Lind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ESDI drive imaging Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 09:31:18 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7B78FC4A-814F-4C72-9CC1-9D543BE33CCF@beaker.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5500281391680219516==" --===============5500281391680219516== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Den sön 23 apr. 2023 kl 08:34 skrev Christopher Zach via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>: > Not that I know of. Esdi has a much faster data rate and I think that > outstrips the BBB solution. > Not necessarily. Yes, data rates are faster in ESDI. Up to 24 MHz and perhaps higher. But in ESDI the data separator is in the drive. The interface has a Data signal AND a clock signal so it is just a matter of storing a bit on a clock edge. The MFM emulator needs to oversample the data signal greatly to be able to decode the data correctly using the software MFM decoder. That would not be necessary with ESDI. But there are a number of complications with ESDI. Firstly there are both hard sector and soft sector formats and then not all soft sector formats are identical so using a different controller than which was used to format a drive is likely to be difficult. A reading device need to understand the format since the Read gate signal need to be enabled and disabled at certain times to allow for the data separator to resync in the gaps between sectors so the method used by the BBB solution to just read everything into a buffer at high speed for later processing wouldn't work AFAIK. To some extent the older SMD interface is similar to ESDI. Both have the data separator in the drive. Both have hard and soft sector formats. The difference is how commands are sent to the drive. SMD uses a parallel bus and tag while ESDI uses serial signalling. I have seen a device which interfaces an ESDI drive while providing a SMD interface to the host. /Mattis > C > > On April 22, 2023 6:18:39 PM EDT, Dennis Boone via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >I think I know the answer to this, but just in case: > > > >Is there a way to image ESDI disks other than to hook them up to their > >usual host controller and use the host? E.g. for MFM, I'd grab the MFM > >Emulator board. > > > >Cheers, > > > >De > --===============5500281391680219516==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Sun Apr 23 12:55:37 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 08:55:15 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8372644195123094926==" --===============8372644195123094926== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Linux Journal is now Linux Magazine and is *available in print* at: https://www.linux-magazine.com/ and special editions at: https://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Special-Editions Ken On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 1:14 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it > and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. > > --Chuck > > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============8372644195123094926==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 23 13:58:12 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 14:58:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000001d975eb$a0699a60$e13ccf20$@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5295695306988328385==" --===============5295695306988328385== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the various replies. Here are my responses and further observations. I was asked if I had a load on the PSU while bench testing it. The answer to that is no. I did check the two diodes around the -12V current sensing resistor (PSU Sheet 3), but as was pointed out the current sensing resistor is very low value (51 ohms). The two diodes measure the same, in circuit, on the working and non-working PSUs. I suppose I may need to lift them to check them properly. I am not sure about the comment suggesting that the bench test conditions could result an overcurrent being sensed on the -12V output. This is because I use the same bench test conditions on both the working and non-working PSUs, and on the working one an overcurrent is not sensed. I hadn't noticed the connection to -12V on the non-inverting input of E1b. However, I don't think this can account for the 0.6V because in both the working and non-working PSUs the non-inverting input to E1b is 4V. However, when I was checking this, I noticed that I must have made a mistake, because the -12V output actually measures +0.4V on the working PSU (not zero as I first thought), but the non-working PSU measures +0.6V. Also, I noticed that the -12V output on the working PSU rises more slowly to +0.4V than on the non-working PSU where it rises more quickly to +0.6V. I still don't understand where this +ve voltage on the -12V output can come from though? Whether on the working PSU or the non-working PSU. Thanks Rob --===============5295695306988328385==-- From cctalk@beyondthepale.ie Sun Apr 23 15:59:55 2023 From: Peter Coghlan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:04:31 +0100 Message-ID: <01SQJMJFIC9U8WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> In-Reply-To: <000001d975eb$a0699a60$e13ccf20$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7093984236925763341==" --===============7093984236925763341== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rob, > > Thanks for the various replies. Here are my responses and further > observations. > > I was asked if I had a load on the PSU while bench testing it. The answer to > that is no. > I initially thought that the +0.6V on the -12V line might have been arriving there via a load which was connected to both the -12V line and a positive supply derived from the +15V you are applying from the bench power supply. It seems that this cannot be the case as there is no load connected and all the positive outputs from the PSU are at zero anyway. An the internal to the PSU path from Vstart to the -12V line is a much more likely explaination for this +0.6V. > > I did check the two diodes around the -12V current sensing resistor (PSU > Sheet 3), but as was pointed out the current sensing resistor is very low > value (51 ohms). The two diodes measure the same, in circuit, on the working > and non-working PSUs. I suppose I may need to lift them to check them > properly. > I don't think there is any need to check these further. I was barking up the wrong tree whe I suggested suspecting them. > > I am not sure about the comment suggesting that the bench test conditions > could result an overcurrent being sensed on the -12V output. This is because > I use the same bench test conditions on both the working and non-working > PSUs, and on the working one an overcurrent is not sensed. > It looks like the conditions in the control and overcurrent sensing parts of the working and the non-working PSUs are different so some further investigation may be required as to why this is the case. > > I hadn't noticed the connection to -12V on the non-inverting input of E1b. > However, I don't think this can account for the 0.6V because in both the > working and non-working PSUs the non-inverting input to E1b is 4V. > See further down. > > However, > when I was checking this, I noticed that I must have made a mistake, because > the -12V output actually measures +0.4V on the working PSU (not zero as I > first thought), but the non-working PSU measures +0.6V. Also, I noticed that > the -12V output on the working PSU rises more slowly to +0.4V than on the > non-working PSU where it rises more quickly to +0.6V. > > I still don't understand where this +ve voltage on the -12V output can come > from though? Whether on the working PSU or the non-working PSU. > The 4V at the non-inverting input of E1b is linked to the -12V line via the 75k resistor and from there via a smoothing choke and the chopper transformer secondary to the -12V line rectifier diode connected to pin 6 and on to ground via the parallel diode/resistor combination. This should result in a current of about 45 microamps flowing to ground through those components mentioned. This in turn should cause the rectifier to be forward biased and drop approximately 0.6V across it which is characteristic of silicon diodes. Does that make sense? (It's rather confusing in that the -12V line rectifier is on the ground side of the chopper transformer secondary instead of on the supply side where it would more usually be encountered. It's electrically all the same wherever it is put as the components involved are in series anyway.) It ought to be possible to measure the same 0.6V across the diode to confirm this is where it is being dropped (and to measure the remaining 3.4V of the 4V at E1b across the 75k resistor). As to why it is only 0.4V on the working power supply, I haven't thought that far ahead yet :-) I think the +0.6V on the -12V line is explainable and to be expected under the test conditions described. It looks like there could be something wrong in the control circuitry which is preventing the power supply from starting up. This might also account for the difference between the 0.4V and 0.6V. Brent's suggestions for checking the condition around the comparators and how they are supplied with power are good ones. I haven't made any further suggestions because I don't have any right now :-) Regards, Peter Coghlan. --===============7093984236925763341==-- From fritzm@fritzm.org Sun Apr 23 16:54:33 2023 From: Fritz Mueller To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 09:54:16 -0700 Message-ID: <28795B58-1524-4BF8-AF97-5F989DAC4D0A@fritzm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8979309659496901552==" --===============8979309659496901552== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I=E2=80=99ve been picking my way through a PDP-8/L restoration lately. I=E2= =80=99ve found that everything in the machine is covered with a uniform layer= of dark =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80=9D (enough to blacken your hands while working w= ith it) which I would like to clean up. Perhaps the =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80=9D i= s actually from a decomposed air filter, as I don=E2=80=99t imagine this mach= ine was operated in a smoky environment, and there is no smoke odor. I usually use 99 IPA and cleanroom wipes for spot cleaning these sorts of thi= ngs, but in this case there is so much of it that I feel that would just push= the soot around rather than clean it off. I think some sort of actual rinse= would be needed here. I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that tha= t are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, anyway.= But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Most of the lo= gic here has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m incline= d to treat it gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? Follow-on question: the majority of the legs on these old DIPs are showing wh= at I=E2=80=99d call =E2=80=9Cmoderate=E2=80=9D corrosion =E2=80=94 nothing lo= oks like it is in danger of being eaten all the way through, but the process = is underway. I was wondering if something like a light shellac or other inhi= bitor could be brushed over these pins to at least slow their inevitable demi= se? I did purchase and build out one of Vince=E2=80=99s flip chip tester kits, an= d have found it super useful for this project. Of the large percentage modul= es that have test vectors supplied, most have tested fine. Three M216 flip-f= lop modules and one M113 nand module were flagged for repairs this way. Advice appreciated, as always! cheers, =E2=80=94FritzM. --===============8979309659496901552==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Apr 23 17:00:18 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 13:00:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <28795B58-1524-4BF8-AF97-5F989DAC4D0A@fritzm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7280201228143382430==" --===============7280201228143382430== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 23, 2023, at 12:54 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Hi folks, >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve been picking my way through a PDP-8/L restoration lately. I= =E2=80=99ve found that everything in the machine is covered with a uniform la= yer of dark =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80=9D (enough to blacken your hands while workin= g with it) which I would like to clean up. Perhaps the =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80= =9D is actually from a decomposed air filter, as I don=E2=80=99t imagine this= machine was operated in a smoky environment, and there is no smoke odor. >=20 > I usually use 99 IPA and cleanroom wipes for spot cleaning these sorts of t= hings, but in this case there is so much of it that I feel that would just pu= sh the soot around rather than clean it off. I think some sort of actual rin= se would be needed here. >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that t= hat are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, anywa= y. But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Most of the = logic here has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m incli= ned to treat it gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? Dish washer soap may be caustic. Detergent for washing dishes by hand may be= a better choice. > Follow-on question: the majority of the legs on these old DIPs are showing = what I=E2=80=99d call =E2=80=9Cmoderate=E2=80=9D corrosion =E2=80=94 nothing = looks like it is in danger of being eaten all the way through, but the proces= s is underway. I was wondering if something like a light shellac or other in= hibitor could be brushed over these pins to at least slow their inevitable de= mise? I wonder if you might be seeing corrosion caused by leftover flux. Modern fl= ux can be of the "water soluble" kind, which indeed washes away nicely with w= arm water; I've used that for surface mount projects. The traditional flux i= s rosin flux. That can be removed with a solvent but that wasn't necessarily= done. Amateur project built with that typically would not be cleaned, and t= hat was generally considered ok. A bit like modern "no clean" flux. But flu= x is somewhat corrosive, and "no clean" may mean simply that it's not an issu= e within the life expectancy of the device. So -- you might see if rosin flu= x remover does anything. paul --===============7280201228143382430==-- From jrr@flippers.com Sun Apr 23 17:13:24 2023 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 10:13:17 -0700 Message-ID: <447f96e9-a370-3fa4-d8a8-ccd1c411a9e2@flippers.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5045757192183480517==" --===============5045757192183480517== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023/04/23 10:00 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Apr 23, 2023, at 12:54 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> I=E2=80=99ve been picking my way through a PDP-8/L restoration lately. I= =E2=80=99ve found that everything in the machine is covered with a uniform la= yer of dark =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80=9D (enough to blacken your hands while workin= g with it) which I would like to clean up. Perhaps the =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80= =9D is actually from a decomposed air filter, as I don=E2=80=99t imagine this= machine was operated in a smoky environment, and there is no smoke odor. >> >> I usually use 99 IPA and cleanroom wipes for spot cleaning these sorts of = things, but in this case there is so much of it that I feel that would just p= ush the soot around rather than clean it off. I think some sort of actual ri= nse would be needed here. >> >> I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that = that are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, anyw= ay. But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Most of the= logic here has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m incl= ined to treat it gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? > Dish washer soap may be caustic. Detergent for washing dishes by hand may = be a better choice. > >> Follow-on question: the majority of the legs on these old DIPs are showing= what I=E2=80=99d call =E2=80=9Cmoderate=E2=80=9D corrosion =E2=80=94 nothing= looks like it is in danger of being eaten all the way through, but the proce= ss is underway. I was wondering if something like a light shellac or other i= nhibitor could be brushed over these pins to at least slow their inevitable d= emise? > I wonder if you might be seeing corrosion caused by leftover flux. Modern = flux can be of the "water soluble" kind, which indeed washes away nicely with= warm water; I've used that for surface mount projects. The traditional flux= is rosin flux. That can be removed with a solvent but that wasn't necessari= ly done. Amateur project built with that typically would not be cleaned, and= that was generally considered ok. A bit like modern "no clean" flux. But f= lux is somewhat corrosive, and "no clean" may mean simply that it's not an is= sue within the life expectancy of the device. So -- you might see if rosin f= lux remover does anything. > > paul > I use Dow Corning #4 Dialectic Grease to reduce or prevent corrosion on=20 power and signal connectors. Read the spec sheets on that stuff, it is=20 really good for metal on metal connections. I imagine it would work well=20 on those silver alloy IC legs that are gradually oxidizing away... John :-#)# --=20 John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============5045757192183480517==-- From pete@dunnington.plus.com Sun Apr 23 20:06:12 2023 From: Pete Turnbull To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 20:54:31 +0100 Message-ID: <4c0aa045-1880-0064-1391-aec93f87df48@dunnington.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <28795B58-1524-4BF8-AF97-5F989DAC4D0A@fritzm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8815084634075056330==" --===============8815084634075056330== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 23/04/2023 17:54, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that t= hat are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, anywa= y. But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Most of the = logic here has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m incli= ned to treat it gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? I've used the dishwasher on a collection of PDP-8/E boards with success.=20 Avoid the hot drying cycle, and don't use a harsh dishwasher=20 detergent; some are quite caustic. --=20 Pete Pete Turnbull --===============8815084634075056330==-- From bhilpert@shaw.ca Sun Apr 23 21:11:41 2023 From: Brent Hilpert To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 14:11:35 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01SQJMJFIC9U8WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5919560382536031737==" --===============5919560382536031737== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-Apr-23, at 8:04 AM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: ... > This should result in a current > of about 45 microamps flowing to ground through those components mentioned. ... > It ought to be possible to measure the same 0.6V across the diode to confirm > this is where it is being dropped (and to measure the remaining 3.4V of the > 4V at E1b across the 75k resistor). As to why it is only 0.4V on the worki= ng > power supply, I haven't thought that far ahead yet :-) The 0.4V across the working-supply diode in contrast to 0.6V is because the c= urrent is way down in the microAmps. This is well on the low side of the curv= y knee of typical Si diode switching, so lower voltage drop and high per-comp= onent in-circuit variability are not a surprise. > I think the +0.6V on the -12V line is explainable and to be expected under = the > test conditions described. It looks like there could be something wrong in > the control circuitry which is preventing the power supply from starting up. > This might also account for the difference between the 0.4V and 0.6V. >=20 > Brent's suggestions for checking the condition around the comparators and h= ow > they are supplied with power are good ones. I haven't made any further > suggestions because I don't have any right now :-) In addition to the IC power pins: The voltage value of Vz (V of zener by 390 ohm R) is not presented in the sch= ematic. Calculating from the measurement of 4V suggests it will be ~ 5V. It tends to be helpful if the voltages of zener diodes are presented in a sch= ematic. Also note: The ISense+/Isense- labeling in the schematic is the reverse of the polaritie= s which will actually be present/expected on those lines (for all three outpu= ts). That is, the lines labeled ISense- will be more + than the lines labeled= ISense+ under normal operation as well as at times of over-current shutdown. --===============5919560382536031737==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Sun Apr 23 21:53:06 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 17:52:44 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4c0aa045-1880-0064-1391-aec93f87df48@dunnington.plus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3656134622034528899==" --===============3656134622034528899== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pete, Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? Ken On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 4:06 PM Pete Turnbull via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 23/04/2023 17:54, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > > > I’ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that that > are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, > anyway. But I haven’t been brave enough to try that yet... Most of the > logic here has date codes to ’68 or ’69, so I’m inclined to treat it > gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? > > I've used the dishwasher on a collection of PDP-8/E boards with success. > Avoid the hot drying cycle, and don't use a harsh dishwasher > detergent; some are quite caustic. > > -- > Pete > Pete Turnbull > > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============3656134622034528899==-- From w2hx@w2hx.com Sun Apr 23 21:56:41 2023 From: W2HX To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 21:56:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8535912368258454911==" --===============8535912368258454911== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I might be concerned about putting carbon comp resistors in the dishwasher as= they are hygroscopic.=20 From an Ohmite datasheet: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/res_od_of_oa= -180619.pdf "Carbon composition resistors are highly hygroscopic and changes in resistance value can occur if too much moisture is absorbed. For this reason, it is recommended not to use water or water-soluble solvents to clean these components. Alcohol or hydrocarbon solvents are recommended for rinsing." 73 Eugene W2HX Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos =20 -----Original Message----- From: KenUnix via cctalk =20 Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2023 5:53 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: KenUnix Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Pete, Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? Ken On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 4:06=E2=80=AFPM Pete Turnbull via cctalk < cctalk(a)c= lassiccmp.org> wrote: > On 23/04/2023 17:54, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > > > I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that= =20 > > that > are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, > anyway. But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Most = of the > logic here has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m inc= lined to treat it=20 > gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? > > I've used the dishwasher on a collection of PDP-8/E boards with success. > Avoid the hot drying cycle, and don't use a harsh dishwasher=20 > detergent; some are quite caustic. > > -- > Pete > Pete Turnbull > > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============8535912368258454911==-- From jrr@flippers.com Sun Apr 23 22:10:56 2023 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 15:10:46 -0700 Message-ID: <6aff2b87-b034-0f1c-8be2-5bd7268e62c3@flippers.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2465054436911571288==" --===============2465054436911571288== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2023/04/18 8:48 p.m., Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 2:37 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: >> ... or four $20 power transistors to protect a 10 cent fuse like on the DEC >> VR-14 display. > In general the transistor(s) will fail short-circuit, thus taking out > the fuse too. > > Some switch-mode power supplies use special fast-acting fuses which > can actually be more expensive than the chopper transistor. > > -tony In the end replacing the capacitors got the supply running. And I checked the resistor that looked overheat, and it was 34R which is within 15% of the value shown on another 1001 supply that is close to the one (same part numbers and values for a number of the parts) in my ADM31. The supply puts out +5VDC, +17VDC (unreg), -17VDC (unreg), and 70VDC (unreg). The board appears to work - I have 5VDC on the MB, and I get a BEEP, and there is some sort of data happening on the DB and I am getting data on the Vertical, Horizontal, and Video signals to the monitor. Monitor isn't lighting up - no HV (I've recapped it too), so I have to put on my monitor hat next. Stay tuned if interested... Oh, I am missing two key caps for the ADM31, anyone have spares? Not sure what is printed on them at this point, but any caps would be better than missing ones to start! Thanks, John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============2465054436911571288==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sun Apr 23 22:17:02 2023 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 15:16:45 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6aff2b87-b034-0f1c-8be2-5bd7268e62c3@flippers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3027634681946758740==" --===============3027634681946758740== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 3:10=E2=80=AFPM John Robertson via cctalk wrote: > > Oh, I am missing two key caps for the ADM31, anyone have spares? Not > sure what is printed on them at this point, but any caps would be better > than missing ones to start! Keyboard photo to see what key caps are missing: https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Lear_Siegler_ADM-31 https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/images/2/29/Lear_Siegler_ADM-31_321477505131-= 3.jpg --===============3027634681946758740==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sun Apr 23 23:07:02 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:06:30 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7924769277899340113==" --===============7924769277899340113== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Seems Linux-magazine.com print order option is down. I get 404 not found erro= r when I click on order print issue.=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit https://ne.thote.it/@tarek > On Apr 23, 2023, at 5:55 AM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFLinux Journal is now Linux Magazine and is *available in print* at: >=20 > https://www.linux-magazine.com/ >=20 > and special editions at: > https://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Special-Editions >=20 > Ken >=20 >=20 >> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 1:14=E2=80=AFPM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>=20 >> My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it >> and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. >>=20 >> --Chuck >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > End of line > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============7924769277899340113==-- From jrr@flippers.com Sun Apr 23 23:10:24 2023 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31? Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:10:17 -0700 Message-ID: <9d84b6d3-5adc-c3c6-d181-af8531be12e2@flippers.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1301338010048205182==" --===============1301338010048205182== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023/04/23 3:16 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 3:10=E2=80=AFPM John Robertson via cctalk > wrote: >> Oh, I am missing two key caps for the ADM31, anyone have spares? Not >> sure what is printed on them at this point, but any caps would be better >> than missing ones to start! > Keyboard photo to see what key caps are missing: > > https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Lear_Siegler_ADM-31 > https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/images/2/29/Lear_Siegler_ADM-31_32147750513= 1-3.jpg As I remember (machine is at shop, and I'm not) I am missing the top row=20 far left - DEL/CHAR/INS - and the top row right of that section - SKIP. I need to confirm on Tuesday, but that link is a major help! Thanks, John :-#)# --=20 John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============1301338010048205182==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Apr 23 23:18:20 2023 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 17:17:39 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBL1PR12MB52699C88ECBD50497AD7AD51B5669=40BL1PR12MB?= =?utf-8?q?5269=2Enamprd12=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6868678674694482500==" --===============6868678674694482500== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 3:56 PM W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I might be concerned about putting carbon comp resistors in the dishwasher > as they are hygroscopic. > > From an Ohmite datasheet: > https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/res_od_of_oa-180619.pdf > > "Carbon composition resistors are highly hygroscopic and > changes in resistance value can occur if too much moisture is > absorbed. For this reason, it is recommended not to use water > or water-soluble solvents to clean these components. Alcohol > or hydrocarbon solvents are recommended for rinsing." > Years ago, I worked at a place that made their own boards in house. They had a dishwasher for that. They had valve on it to disconnect the water supply so they could fill it with alcohol or similar for special jobs. Warner 73 Eugene W2HX > Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > -----Original Message----- > From: KenUnix via cctalk > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2023 5:53 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Cc: KenUnix > Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition > > Pete, > > Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? > > Ken > > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 4:06=E2=80=AFPM Pete Turnbull via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 23/04/2023 17:54, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > > > > > I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips th= at > > > that > > are just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, > > anyway. But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Mos= t of the > > logic here has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m i= nclined to treat it > > gently. Any suggestions for approaches to clean this up? > > > > I've used the dishwasher on a collection of PDP-8/E boards with success. > > Avoid the hot drying cycle, and don't use a harsh dishwasher > > detergent; some are quite caustic. > > > > -- > > Pete > > Pete Turnbull > > > > > > -- > End of line > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey > --===============6868678674694482500==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Sun Apr 23 23:22:48 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:22:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8720619851752106701==" --===============8720619851752106701== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tarek, Try here: https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2 Ken On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 7:07 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Seems Linux-magazine.com print order option is down. I get 404 not found > error when I click on order print issue. > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > https://ne.thote.it/@tarek > > > On Apr 23, 2023, at 5:55 AM, KenUnix via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Linux Journal is now Linux Magazine and is *available in print* at: > > > > https://www.linux-magazine.com/ > > > > and special editions at: > > https://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Special-Editions > > > > Ken > > > > > >> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 1:14 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < > >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it > >> and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. > >> > >> --Chuck > >> > >> > > > > -- > > End of line > > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============8720619851752106701==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Sun Apr 23 23:28:14 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:27:56 -0700 Message-ID: <57229981-BB4D-4787-94F5-092C5E020FEC@infocom.ai> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2568056353565571960==" --===============2568056353565571960== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great. That works.=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit https://ne.thote.it/@tarek > On Apr 23, 2023, at 4:22 PM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFTarek, >=20 > Try here: https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2 >=20 > Ken >=20 >> On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 7:07=E2=80=AFPM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>=20 >> Seems Linux-magazine.com print order option is down. I get 404 not found >> error when I click on order print issue. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Tarek Hoteit >> https://ne.thote.it/@tarek >>=20 >>> On Apr 23, 2023, at 5:55 AM, KenUnix via cctalk >> wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFLinux Journal is now Linux Magazine and is *available in print* = at: >>>=20 >>> https://www.linux-magazine.com/ >>>=20 >>> and special editions at: >>> https://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Special-Editions >>>=20 >>> Ken >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 1:14=E2=80=AFPM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < >>>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it >>>> and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. >>>>=20 >>>> --Chuck >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> End of line >>> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > End of line > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============2568056353565571960==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Mon Apr 24 05:29:36 2023 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 13:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8496634500825011019==" --===============8496634500825011019== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It looks like his air museum was acquired by one of the Walmart heirs. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying-h= eritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/=EF=BF=BC After 3 years, Flying Heritage Museum to reopen in Everett seattletimes.com I wonder if something like this will happen with the computer museum. =20 Question, were Paul Allen=E2=80=99s museums non-profits? Zane --===============8496634500825011019==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Mon Apr 24 05:45:25 2023 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 05:45:12 +0000 Message-ID: <872464866.4007477.1682315112454@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0216127842819791816==" --===============0216127842819791816== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bad link=C2=A0 Zane I get a weird=C2=A0 screen from the timeEd# Sent from AOL on Android=20 =20 On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 10:29 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: It looks like his air museum was acquired by one of the Walmar= t heirs. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying-h= eritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/=EF=BF=BC After 3 years, Flying Heritage Museum to reopen in Everett seattletimes.com I wonder if something like this will happen with the computer museum.=C2=A0=20 Question, were Paul Allen=E2=80=99s museums non-profits? Zane =20 --===============0216127842819791816==-- From pete@dunnington.plus.com Mon Apr 24 10:23:42 2023 From: Pete Turnbull To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:11:35 +0100 Message-ID: <5ddc6aec-9e67-b6fe-7003-5dd3e15d64af@dunnington.plus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1909781855988811941==" --===============1909781855988811941== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > Pete, > > Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I figured they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in the kitchen sink. I should have said that in my original post. -- Pete Pete Turnbull --===============1909781855988811941==-- From pete@dunnington.plus.com Mon Apr 24 10:31:14 2023 From: Pete Turnbull To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:18:17 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <872464866.4007477.1682315112454@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5115778511757993539==" --===============5115778511757993539== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > Bad link=C2=A0 Zane I get a weird=C2=A0 screen from the timeEd# Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying-h= eritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ --=20 Pete Pete Turnbull --===============5115778511757993539==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Mon Apr 24 11:19:23 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 07:19:07 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5ddc6aec-9e67-b6fe-7003-5dd3e15d64af@dunnington.plus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3439199927336970946==" --===============3439199927336970946== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, I could tell you I had an experience where I had a stuck bit in core memory. It was in a trunk frame in a #2ESS AIS. I removed the core package and tapped it on the floor reinserted it and the trouble cleared. Sticky bit! Ha Ken On Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 6:23 AM Pete Turnbull via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > > Pete, > > > > Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? > > It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I > figured they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in > the kitchen sink. > > I should have said that in my original post. > > -- > Pete > Pete Turnbull > > --===============3439199927336970946==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Apr 24 12:15:22 2023 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 08:15:05 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <28795B58-1524-4BF8-AF97-5F989DAC4D0A@fritzm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0245771274419884007==" --===============0245771274419884007== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would be tempted to take a board ot two outside and then use compressed air to get off as much as possilble that way first, before cleaning with anything. Bill On Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 12:54 PM Fritz Mueller via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi folks, > > I=E2=80=99ve been picking my way through a PDP-8/L restoration lately. I= =E2=80=99ve found > that everything in the machine is covered with a uniform layer of dark > =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80=9D (enough to blacken your hands while working with it)= which I would > like to clean up. Perhaps the =E2=80=9Csoot=E2=80=9D is actually from a de= composed air > filter, as I don=E2=80=99t imagine this machine was operated in a smoky > environment, and there is no smoke odor. > > I usually use 99 IPA and cleanroom wipes for spot cleaning these sorts of > things, but in this case there is so much of it that I feel that would just > push the soot around rather than clean it off. I think some sort of actual > rinse would be needed here. > > I=E2=80=99ve been eying the dishwasher, for the subset of flip chips that t= hat are > just DIP logic, carbon comp resistors, and ceramic bypass caps, anyway. > But I haven=E2=80=99t been brave enough to try that yet... Most of the lo= gic here > has date codes to =E2=80=9968 or =E2=80=9969, so I=E2=80=99m inclined to tr= eat it gently. Any > suggestions for approaches to clean this up? > > Follow-on question: the majority of the legs on these old DIPs are showing > what I=E2=80=99d call =E2=80=9Cmoderate=E2=80=9D corrosion =E2=80=94 nothin= g looks like it is in danger of > being eaten all the way through, but the process is underway. I was > wondering if something like a light shellac or other inhibitor could be > brushed over these pins to at least slow their inevitable demise? > > I did purchase and build out one of Vince=E2=80=99s flip chip tester kits, = and > have found it super useful for this project. Of the large percentage > modules that have test vectors supplied, most have tested fine. Three M216 > flip-flop modules and one M113 nand module were flagged for repairs this > way. > > Advice appreciated, as always! > > cheers, > =E2=80=94FritzM. > > > --===============0245771274419884007==-- From cclist@sydex.com Mon Apr 24 15:30:18 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 08:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: <9cb17955-11a6-6cd0-80e0-83eb320b2207@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2046773346076369399==" --===============2046773346076369399== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> Bad link=C2=A0 Zane I get a weird=C2=A0 screen from the timeEd# >=20 > Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: >=20 > https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying= -heritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a decision made by the purchaser. --Chuck --===============2046773346076369399==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Mon Apr 24 16:20:26 2023 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 09:20:10 -0700 Message-ID: <5C43F38F-F868-4944-B033-6277B5F260F2@avanthar.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7097356888399952358==" --===============7097356888399952358== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Apr 24, 2023, at 3:18 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the timeEd# >=20 > Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: >=20 > https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying= -heritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ >=20 > --=20 > Pete > Pete Turnbull Thanks! I=E2=80=99m going to blame that on the latest MacOS version, as I=E2= =80=99d tested that link. :-( Zane --===============7097356888399952358==-- From ethan@757.org Mon Apr 24 16:52:03 2023 From: Ethan O'Toole To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 12:51:57 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5665244870646898175==" --===============5665244870646898175== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Question, were Paul Allen’s museums non-profits? > Zane I am sure, tax writeoff. -- : Ethan O'Toole --===============5665244870646898175==-- From legalize@xmission.com Mon Apr 24 17:38:21 2023 From: Richard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:38:15 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8393493268317756005==" --===============8393493268317756005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e(a)sydex.com>, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" writes: > My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it > and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. I used to love reading EE Times when it was a weekly tabloid style print edition. Ever since they moved to a web site only format, it's been a serious downgrade of the experience. Even with accounting for the format change, it's now virtually imposible to find "what's new" since the last time I was there. The organization of the articles on the web site is vastly inferior to the organization of the articles in the print edition. The sad part is that there's no reason for the degraded experience just because they moved to a digital edition. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Terminals Wiki The Computer Graphics Museum Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) --===============8393493268317756005==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Mon Apr 24 17:41:43 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 10:41:26 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9cb17955-11a6-6cd0-80e0-83eb320b2207@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5449967229103895300==" --===============5449967229103895300== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, it was his stuff, and he had a right to decide what to do with it after his passing. But I have and am entitled to my opinions, and that is utter shite. Sellam On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 8:30=E2=80=AFAM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > > On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > >> Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the timeEd# > > > > Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: > > > > > https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying= -heritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ > > As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named > executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to > sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In > other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a > decision made by the purchaser. > > > --Chuck > > > --===============5449967229103895300==-- From djg@pdp8online.com Mon Apr 24 17:50:11 2023 From: David Gesswein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 13:37:41 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5ddc6aec-9e67-b6fe-7003-5dd3e15d64af@dunnington.plus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3408606343815766700==" --===============3408606343815766700== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:11:35AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > > Pete, > > > > Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? > > It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I figured > they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in the kitchen > sink. > > I should have said that in my original post. > I assume your referring to the core electronics boards and didn't wash the core plane. I've never used the dishwasher. I've hand washed R, W, G and M type boards in sink with dish soap and soft bristle brush, rinsed, then blew off with air compressor, then finish dry with fan. For pots and other components that I wasn't sure how well they were sealed I used damp brush or cloth around them. Rest got dunked. No obvious issues from washing. --===============3408606343815766700==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Mon Apr 24 18:06:53 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:06:31 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4535314256752125657==" --===============4535314256752125657== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Richard, Try here: https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2 Ken On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:38 PM Richard via cctalk wrote: > In article <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e(a)sydex.com>, > "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" writes: > > > My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it > > and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. > > I used to love reading EE Times when it was a weekly tabloid style > print edition. Ever since they moved to a web site only format, it's > been a serious downgrade of the experience. Even with accounting for > the format change, it's now virtually imposible to find "what's new" > since the last time I was there. The organization of the articles on > the web site is vastly inferior to the organization of the articles in > the print edition. The sad part is that there's no reason for the > degraded experience just because they moved to a digital edition. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book < > http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> > The Terminals Wiki > The Computer Graphics Museum > Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============4535314256752125657==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Mon Apr 24 18:11:31 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:11:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2497975961228137588==" --===============2497975961228137588== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, I could tell you I had an experience where I had a stuck bit in core memory. It was in a trunk frame in a #2ESS AIS. I removed the core package and tapped it on the floor, reinserted it and the trouble cleared. Sticky bit! Ha I only knew that because it happened to me on my old PDP-8/I.. Ken On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM David Gesswein via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:11:35AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > > > Pete, > > > > > > Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? > > > > It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I > figured > > they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in the > kitchen > > sink. > > > > I should have said that in my original post. > > > > I assume your referring to the core electronics boards and didn't wash the > core plane. > > I've never used the dishwasher. I've hand washed R, W, G and M type boards > in > sink with dish soap and soft bristle brush, rinsed, then blew off with > air compressor, then finish dry with fan. For pots and other > components that I wasn't sure how well they were sealed I used damp brush > or > cloth around them. Rest got dunked. No obvious issues from washing. > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============2497975961228137588==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Mon Apr 24 23:47:27 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 19:47:06 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4675883442787816989==" --===============4675883442787816989== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guys, I came across this site that has Linux magazines downloadable for free in PDF: http://pclosmag.com/index.html Ken On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM KenUnix wr= ote: > Richard, > > Try here: https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2 > > Ken > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:38=E2=80=AFPM Richard via cctalk > wrote: > >> In article <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e(a)sydex.com>, >> "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" writes: >> >> > My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it >> > and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. >> >> I used to love reading EE Times when it was a weekly tabloid style >> print edition. Ever since they moved to a web site only format, it's >> been a serious downgrade of the experience. Even with accounting for >> the format change, it's now virtually imposible to find "what's new" >> since the last time I was there. The organization of the articles on >> the web site is vastly inferior to the organization of the articles in >> the print edition. The sad part is that there's no reason for the >> degraded experience just because they moved to a digital edition. >> -- >> "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book < >> http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> >> The Terminals Wiki >> The Computer Graphics Museum >> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) >> > > > -- > End of line > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey > > > --=20 End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============4675883442787816989==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Tue Apr 25 05:41:20 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 22:40:39 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3651244195668053673==" --===============3651244195668053673== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also found this GitHub page that simplifies reading magazines off archive.org= https://gitgalu.github.io/LoboReader/ when using your phone=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 24, 2023, at 4:47 PM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFGuys, >=20 > I came across this site that has Linux magazines downloadable for free in > PDF: >=20 > http://pclosmag.com/index.html >=20 > Ken >=20 >=20 >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM KenUnix = wrote: >>=20 >> Richard, >>=20 >> Try here: https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2 >>=20 >> Ken >>=20 >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:38=E2=80=AFPM Richard via cctalk >> wrote: >>=20 >>> In article <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9faf7e(a)sydex.com>, >>> "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" writes: >>>=20 >>>> My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN. Sadly, it >>>> and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees. >>>=20 >>> I used to love reading EE Times when it was a weekly tabloid style >>> print edition. Ever since they moved to a web site only format, it's >>> been a serious downgrade of the experience. Even with accounting for >>> the format change, it's now virtually imposible to find "what's new" >>> since the last time I was there. The organization of the articles on >>> the web site is vastly inferior to the organization of the articles in >>> the print edition. The sad part is that there's no reason for the >>> degraded experience just because they moved to a digital edition. >>> -- >>> "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book < >>> http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> >>> The Terminals Wiki >>> The Computer Graphics Museum >>> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> End of line >> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > End of line > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============3651244195668053673==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Tue Apr 25 05:49:11 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] websites as subdomains under classiccmp.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 22:48:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3345241956567767945==" --===============3345241956567767945== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I learned today about Dave=E2=80=99s Old Computer website http://dunfield.cl= assiccmp.org/ which is listed as a subdomain under classiccmp.org. I wasn=E2= =80=99t aware of subdomain sites. Can any one list any other ones or is a lis= t of sites available ?=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit --===============3345241956567767945==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Tue Apr 25 06:16:57 2023 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 14:16:32 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9cb17955-11a6-6cd0-80e0-83eb320b2207@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3829638117068470166==" --===============3829638117068470166== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a firesale of the assets. Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me included. I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue Paul's vision. Tom On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:30=E2=80=AFPM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > > On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > >> Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the timeEd# > > > > Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: > > > > > https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying= -heritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ > > As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named > executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to > sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In > other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a > decision made by the purchaser. > > > --Chuck > > > --===============3829638117068470166==-- From sellam.ismail@gmail.com Tue Apr 25 07:39:38 2023 From: Sellam Abraham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 00:39:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5357211337257645970==" --===============5357211337257645970== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Little old Billy G? lol, like he gives a shit. He's too busy selling his snake oil and figuring out ways to turn bugs and chemicals into your next meal. I literally should have strangled him to death when I had the opportunity. Sellam On Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 11:17 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > included. > I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue > Paul's vision. > Tom > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:30=E2=80=AFPM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > > > On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > > >> Bad link Zane I get a weird screen from the timeEd# > > > > > > Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: > > > > > > > > > https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying= -heritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ > > > > As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named > > executor for Paul's assets. I've read that his instructions were to > > sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity. In > > other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a > > decision made by the purchaser. > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > --===============5357211337257645970==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Tue Apr 25 07:48:00 2023 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 07:47:46 +0000 Message-ID: <1463812144.4347343.1682408866426@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7863553851642866605==" --===============7863553851642866605== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...had the opportunity?Tell us more! Sent from AOL on Android=20 =20 On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 12:39 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Little old Billy G? lol, like he gives a shit. He's too busy selling his snake oil and figuring out ways to turn bugs and chemicals into your next meal. I literally should have strangled him to death when I had the opportunity. Sellam On Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 11:17 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > included. > I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue > Paul's vision. > Tom > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:30=E2=80=AFPM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 4/24/23 03:18, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > > > On 24/04/2023 06:45, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > > >> Bad link=C2=A0 Zane I get a weird=C2=A0 screen from the timeEd# > > > > > > Delete the strange character after the last "/" and it will work: > > > > > > > > > https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-3-years-flying= -heritage-museum-to-reopen-in-everett/ > > > > As I understand the situation, Jody, Paul's sister, is the named > > executor for Paul's assets.=C2=A0 I've read that his instructions were to > > sell off most of the assets and donate the proceeds to charity.=C2=A0 In > > other words, the LCM will be sold; whether or not it remains intact is a > > decision made by the purchaser. > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > =20 --===============7863553851642866605==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 13:03:14 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:03:02 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0625979591578791580==" --===============0625979591578791580== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > included. I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes h= e had lent his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not = foolproof (a museum may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to= worry about the museum, or some heir, deciding to trash the stuff. paul --===============0625979591578791580==-- From norwayjose@mac.com Tue Apr 25 13:14:47 2023 From: Rod Bartlett To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:05:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1FA42616-C5B9-4962-9CA7-93EFE74C0EE7@mac.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4933928558181312050==" --===============4933928558181312050== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken, This discussion does my geezer's heart good. I used to maintain Honeywell mainframes in the late 1970s, some of which had = core memories. Tapping them on the floor wasn't an option since they were su= ch huge beasties but they did have space for spare bits. I've swapped to the= spare bits or replaced sense amps to fix many a core problem. Something I'l= l never forget is the way the power supplies "sang" when running memory diagn= ostics on the core units. I could always tell the diagnostic was done when t= he singing stopped. - Rod > On Apr 24, 2023, at 2:11 PM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > David, >=20 > I could tell you I had an experience where I had a stuck bit in core memory. >=20 > It was in a trunk frame in a #2ESS AIS. >=20 > I removed the core package and tapped it on the floor, reinserted it and > the trouble cleared. >=20 > Sticky bit! Ha >=20 > I only knew that because it happened to me on my old PDP-8/I.. >=20 > Ken >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM David Gesswein via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >=20 >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:11:35AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: >>> On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: >>>> Pete, >>>>=20 >>>> Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? >>>=20 >>> It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I >> figured >>> they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in the >> kitchen >>> sink. >>>=20 >>> I should have said that in my original post. >>>=20 >>=20 >> I assume your referring to the core electronics boards and didn't wash the >> core plane. >>=20 >> I've never used the dishwasher. I've hand washed R, W, G and M type boards >> in >> sink with dish soap and soft bristle brush, rinsed, then blew off with >> air compressor, then finish dry with fan. For pots and other >> components that I wasn't sure how well they were sealed I used damp brush >> or >> cloth around them. Rest got dunked. No obvious issues from washing. >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > End of line > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============4933928558181312050==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Tue Apr 25 13:26:04 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:25:46 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1FA42616-C5B9-4962-9CA7-93EFE74C0EE7@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6799018880220329316==" --===============6799018880220329316== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rod, Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy. It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by little people. Or, big people with little hands. On the PDP 8/I they were 4K plug in affairs. Ken On Tue, Apr 25, 2023, 9:14 AM Rod Bartlett via cctalk wrote: > Ken, > > This discussion does my geezer's heart good. > > I used to maintain Honeywell mainframes in the late 1970s, some of which > had core memories. Tapping them on the floor wasn't an option since they > were such huge beasties but they did have space for spare bits. I've > swapped to the spare bits or replaced sense amps to fix many a core > problem. Something I'll never forget is the way the power supplies "sang" > when running memory diagnostics on the core units. I could always tell the > diagnostic was done when the singing stopped. > > - Rod > > > On Apr 24, 2023, at 2:11 PM, KenUnix via cctalk > wrote: > > > > David, > > > > I could tell you I had an experience where I had a stuck bit in core > memory. > > > > It was in a trunk frame in a #2ESS AIS. > > > > I removed the core package and tapped it on the floor, reinserted it and > > the trouble cleared. > > > > Sticky bit! Ha > > > > I only knew that because it happened to me on my old PDP-8/I.. > > > > Ken > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM David Gesswein via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:11:35AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >>> On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > >>>> Pete, > >>>> > >>>> Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? > >>> > >>> It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I > >> figured > >>> they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in the > >> kitchen > >>> sink. > >>> > >>> I should have said that in my original post. > >>> > >> > >> I assume your referring to the core electronics boards and didn't wash > the > >> core plane. > >> > >> I've never used the dishwasher. I've hand washed R, W, G and M type > boards > >> in > >> sink with dish soap and soft bristle brush, rinsed, then blew off with > >> air compressor, then finish dry with fan. For pots and other > >> components that I wasn't sure how well they were sealed I used damp > brush > >> or > >> cloth around them. Rest got dunked. No obvious issues from washing. > >> > > > > > > -- > > End of line > > JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey > > --===============6799018880220329316==-- From norwayjose@mac.com Tue Apr 25 13:37:37 2023 From: Rod Bartlett To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:37:20 -0400 Message-ID: <5F9C7156-63B0-43C2-8279-E2AC7046A59E@mac.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7184089443390920923==" --===============7184089443390920923== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken, Core places being hand wired amazed me as well. The maintenance panels on th= e Honeywell mainframes were hand wired as well. They were works of art with = lots of toggle switches and lights (the later models switched to LEDs). I co= uld see most of the internal registers using a fancy scroll wheel to select w= hat register the lights should show. I could also enter small diagnostic pro= grams and single step through them using the panel. Most of our core memories were 256K of 36 bit words (with a few spares for ea= ch location). They took up lots of floor space. I suspect the fact that the= power supplies had to drive that much equipment was what made them sing. - Rod > On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:25 AM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > Rod, >=20 > Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy. >=20 > It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by > little people. Or, big people with little hands. >=20 > On the PDP 8/I they were 4K plug in affairs. >=20 > Ken >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Apr 25, 2023, 9:14 AM Rod Bartlett via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> Ken, >>=20 >> This discussion does my geezer's heart good. >>=20 >> I used to maintain Honeywell mainframes in the late 1970s, some of which >> had core memories. Tapping them on the floor wasn't an option since they >> were such huge beasties but they did have space for spare bits. I've >> swapped to the spare bits or replaced sense amps to fix many a core >> problem. Something I'll never forget is the way the power supplies "sang" >> when running memory diagnostics on the core units. I could always tell the >> diagnostic was done when the singing stopped. >>=20 >> - Rod >>=20 >>> On Apr 24, 2023, at 2:11 PM, KenUnix via cctalk >> wrote: >>>=20 >>> David, >>>=20 >>> I could tell you I had an experience where I had a stuck bit in core >> memory. >>>=20 >>> It was in a trunk frame in a #2ESS AIS. >>>=20 >>> I removed the core package and tapped it on the floor, reinserted it and >>> the trouble cleared. >>>=20 >>> Sticky bit! Ha >>>=20 >>> I only knew that because it happened to me on my old PDP-8/I.. >>>=20 >>> Ken >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM David Gesswein via cctalk < >>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 11:11:35AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: >>>>> On 23/04/2023 22:52, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: >>>>>> Pete, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Did the 8E have core or solid state memory? >>>>>=20 >>>>> It had both, but I didn't put the core boards in the dishwasher. I >>>> figured >>>>> they might be too delicate for that, so I rinsed them by hand in the >>>> kitchen >>>>> sink. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I should have said that in my original post. >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I assume your referring to the core electronics boards and didn't wash >> the >>>> core plane. >>>>=20 >>>> I've never used the dishwasher. I've hand washed R, W, G and M type >> boards >>>> in >>>> sink with dish soap and soft bristle brush, rinsed, then blew off with >>>> air compressor, then finish dry with fan. For pots and other >>>> components that I wasn't sure how well they were sealed I used damp >> brush >>>> or >>>> cloth around them. Rest got dunked. No obvious issues from washing. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> End of line >>> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey >>=20 >>=20 --===============7184089443390920923==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 13:38:24 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:38:16 -0400 Message-ID: <81F5AB84-4FDF-4437-B15F-C663DCD10814@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0060207619575752229==" --===============0060207619575752229== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:25 AM, KenUnix via cctalk w= rote: >=20 > Rod, >=20 > Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy. >=20 > It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by > little people. Or, big people with little hands. People (often women I think) with steady hands. I think the setup used a wor= k surface with notches in it corresponding to the positions of each core. Th= ey would pour a cup full of cores onto that and use gentle shaking and vibrat= ing to get all those notches filled, then pour off the excess. Next, threadi= ng the cores much like you thread a needle -- except that the wire is stiffer= than thread and thus easier to make it go straight through. One wonders if this could have been done by machine. Probably yes, but given= the volumes involved I suppose the capital investment wasn't justified. The more amazing kind of hand-wired core is core ROM, where the wires weave i= n and out of various cores according to the required bit pattern. Getting th= at right seems like a far more complicated craft. paul --===============0060207619575752229==-- From geneb@deltasoft.com Tue Apr 25 13:43:49 2023 From: geneb To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 06:43:43 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1601723437088929802==" --===============1601723437088929802== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" assets, lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound. I say we sell his sister for science experiments and use the proceeds to re-open the museum. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! --===============1601723437088929802==-- From ken.unix.guy@gmail.com Tue Apr 25 13:44:43 2023 From: KenUnix To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:44:21 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <81F5AB84-4FDF-4437-B15F-C663DCD10814@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4282838556994217701==" --===============4282838556994217701== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep. Back then it was a form of non-volatile memory. Maintained what was on it after power off. Ken On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 9:38=E2=80=AFAM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:25 AM, KenUnix via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Rod, > > > > Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy. > > > > It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by > > little people. Or, big people with little hands. > > People (often women I think) with steady hands. I think the setup used a > work surface with notches in it corresponding to the positions of each > core. They would pour a cup full of cores onto that and use gentle shaking > and vibrating to get all those notches filled, then pour off the excess. > Next, threading the cores much like you thread a needle -- except that the > wire is stiffer than thread and thus easier to make it go straight through. > > One wonders if this could have been done by machine. Probably yes, but > given the volumes involved I suppose the capital investment wasn't > justified. > > The more amazing kind of hand-wired core is core ROM, where the wires > weave in and out of various cores according to the required bit pattern. > Getting that right seems like a far more complicated craft. > > paul > > > --=20 End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey --===============4282838556994217701==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 13:47:57 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:47:49 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5F9C7156-63B0-43C2-8279-E2AC7046A59E@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4120052843809845431==" --===============4120052843809845431== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:37 AM, Rod Bartlett via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Ken, >=20 > Core places being hand wired amazed me as well. The maintenance panels on = the Honeywell mainframes were hand wired as well. They were works of art wit= h lots of toggle switches and lights (the later models switched to LEDs). I = could see most of the internal registers using a fancy scroll wheel to select= what register the lights should show. I could also enter small diagnostic p= rograms and single step through them using the panel. >=20 > Most of our core memories were 256K of 36 bit words (with a few spares for = each location). They took up lots of floor space. I suspect the fact that t= he power supplies had to drive that much equipment was what made them sing. The biggest core memories I remember are the ones in CDC mainframes "extended= core storage" -- at U of Illinois we had a 2 MW config, 60 bit words plus pa= rity. Actually, ECS was organized as 488 bit words, with 6 =C2=B5s access ti= me, 8 way interleaved, for a transfer rate of 10 MW per second (matching cent= ral memory). Nice. That was an odd structure, it was described as "linear select" which I think = means an address line per word rather than the usual X/Y concident current se= lection scheme. Pictures show a rectangular memory array; perhaps it was 488= bits high by some number (512?) wide but I haven't been able to find the det= ails. paul --===============4120052843809845431==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 13:50:42 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 09:50:33 -0400 Message-ID: <890C89D3-5B94-4AF9-B8C6-8CB021D326DF@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1412016417929514222==" --===============1412016417929514222== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk wro= te: >=20 > On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >=20 >> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >> firesale of the assets. > AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" assets, = lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound. Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the muse= um, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. That is= , unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have t= o hope that a court would enforce a contract. There is ample precedent of co= urts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or trusts to permit mus= eums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements with donors. A recen= t one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind. paul --===============1412016417929514222==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Tue Apr 25 13:55:01 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 06:54:07 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <890C89D3-5B94-4AF9-B8C6-8CB021D326DF@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3478147393517474021==" --===============3478147393517474021== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wasn=E2=80=99t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed no = interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the b= est thing ever while all the money spent for =E2=80=9Csaving the world=E2=80= =9D seems to have led to nothing.=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 25, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk wr= ote: >>=20 >>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >>> firesale of the assets. >> AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" assets,= lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound. >=20 > Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the mu= seum, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. That = is, unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have= to hope that a court would enforce a contract. There is ample precedent of = courts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or trusts to permit m= useums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements with donors. A rec= ent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind. >=20 > paul >=20 >=20 --===============3478147393517474021==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Tue Apr 25 14:09:57 2023 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 15:09:40 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5367188694145150199==" --===============5367188694145150199== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think museums these days are careful to make sure donations really are that. Not, probably, because they see a sale in their future but because in the event of commercial failure they don't want to have to execute thousands of different disposal requirements. On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 2:55=E2=80=AFPM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Wasn=E2=80=99t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed no > interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the > best thing ever while all the money spent for =E2=80=9Csaving the world=E2= =80=9D seems to > have led to nothing. > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > > > On Apr 25, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BF > > > >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk > wrote: > >> > >>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > >>> > >>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > >>> firesale of the assets. > >> AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" > assets, lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be > inbound. > > > > Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the > museum, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. > That is, unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so, > you'd have to hope that a court would enforce a contract. There is ample > precedent of courts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or > trusts to permit museums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements > with donors. A recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind. > > > > paul > > > > > --===============5367188694145150199==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Tue Apr 25 15:11:57 2023 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 08:11:36 -0700 Message-ID: <73353409-069D-4A2A-9246-CC66D8F24D78@avanthar.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1349587608057799447==" --===============1349587608057799447== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Apr 24, 2023, at 11:16 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > included. I=E2=80=99m already unhappy, and wishing I=E2=80=99d not donated to the museu= m. Zane --===============1349587608057799447==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Tue Apr 25 15:18:05 2023 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 15:17:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1601901890.4421467.1682435869255@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <73353409-069D-4A2A-9246-CC66D8F24D78@avanthar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5900478154963397772==" --===============5900478154963397772== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But Zane.... you seemed disenchanted with museums even before LCM closed...= =C2=A0 apparently you wee not happy with LCM?=C2=A0 Fill us in? Sent from AOL on Android=20 =20 On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 8:11 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: On Apr 24, 2023, at 11:16 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > included. I=E2=80=99m already unhappy, and wishing I=E2=80=99d not donated to the museu= m. Zane =20 --===============5900478154963397772==-- From cclist@sydex.com Tue Apr 25 15:20:59 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 08:20:44 -0700 Message-ID: <7d06b07b-73bd-8f1b-6afd-dc898fb884e2@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2627660080005615042==" --===============2627660080005615042== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/25/23 06:54, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: > Wasn=E2=80=99t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed n= o interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the= best thing ever while all the money spent for =E2=80=9Csaving the world=E2= =80=9D seems to have led to nothing.=20 >=20 Well, there's the Gates Archive--a real 501(c)3 organization dedicated to preserving BillG's history. Based on my contacts with them, they appear to be very top-heavy, bean-counterish. I gave up trying to do business with them after yet another layer of paperwork was required. --Chuck P.S. I don't use Windows. --===============2627660080005615042==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 15:24:08 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 11:24:01 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1601901890.4421467.1682435869255@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2673962789725901051==" --===============2673962789725901051== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 11:17 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >=20 > But Zane.... you seemed disenchanted with museums even before LCM closed...= apparently you wee not happy with LCM? Fill us in? One oddity about LCM was that they seemed to be into non-disclosure agreement= s. It's rather bizarre for a museum to recruit people for a technical adviso= ry group to help them with understanding old hardware, and then require them = to sign an NDA for the privilege of helping them. paul --===============2673962789725901051==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Tue Apr 25 15:25:09 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 08:24:22 -0700 Message-ID: <332584C1-F356-4665-9E17-6E58A5B44CC5@infocom.ai> In-Reply-To: <7d06b07b-73bd-8f1b-6afd-dc898fb884e2@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8930002524011382343==" --===============8930002524011382343== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable p.s. #2. Don=E2=80=99t use Windows either.=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On Apr 25, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 4/25/23 06:54, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: >> Wasn=E2=80=99t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed = no interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is th= e best thing ever while all the money spent for =E2=80=9Csaving the world=E2= =80=9D seems to have led to nothing.=20 >>=20 > Well, there's the Gates Archive--a real 501(c)3 organization dedicated > to preserving BillG's history. > Based on my contacts with them, they appear to be very top-heavy, > bean-counterish. I gave up trying to do business with them after yet > another layer of paperwork was required. >=20 > --Chuck >=20 > P.S. I don't use Windows. >=20 --===============8930002524011382343==-- From ethan@757.org Tue Apr 25 15:27:58 2023 From: Ethan O'Toole To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 11:27:53 -0400 Message-ID: <943f54f5-b7ad-e398-c32d-0cd7026893f@757.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5755425488581003418==" --===============5755425488581003418== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > One oddity about LCM was that they seemed to be into non-disclosure > agreements. It's rather bizarre for a museum to recruit people for a > technical advisory group to help them with understanding old hardware, > and then require them to sign an NDA for the privilege of helping them. > paul I assume with the immense wealth PA had that anyone and everyone connected to him were sought out by people looking to try to pitch ideas, get grants, try to sell thing things, etc. Maybe NDA helped reduce that noise to the org. - Ethan --===============5755425488581003418==-- From aperry@snowmoose.com Tue Apr 25 16:04:06 2023 From: Alan Perry To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 08:55:17 -0700 Message-ID: <16A818AE-12CF-4D67-B024-C3244DD96D83@snowmoose.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0998781862554395653==" --===============0998781862554395653== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 06:03, Paul Koning via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >> firesale of the assets. >> Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me >> included. >=20 > I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes= he had lent his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's no= t foolproof (a museum may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have = to worry about the museum, or some heir, deciding to trash the stuff. Was lending ever an option with LCM? I loaned documents to an individual ther= e but when I was donating items to the museum itself I was told that they did= n=E2=80=99t do loaning of items. alan --===============0998781862554395653==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Tue Apr 25 16:22:55 2023 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: websites as subdomains under classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 16:13:01 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1061414171201855508==" --===============1061414171201855508== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at 22:48, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: > I learned today about Dave=E2=80=99s Old Computer website http://dunfield.c= lassiccmp.org/ which is > listed as a subdomain under classiccmp.org. I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of subdo= main sites. Can any one > list any other ones or is a list of sites available ? From a quick search: https://online.seranking.com/research.competitor.html/organic/subdomains?inpu= t=3Dclassiccmp.org&mode=3Dbase_domain The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean. --===============1061414171201855508==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 16:23:51 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 12:23:38 -0400 Message-ID: <2323B38C-CBA6-450C-98C5-80BBEE2C55ED@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <943f54f5-b7ad-e398-c32d-0cd7026893f@757.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8958841963817437375==" --===============8958841963817437375== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 11:27 AM, Ethan O'Toole wrote: >=20 >> One oddity about LCM was that they seemed to be into non-disclosure agreem= ents. It's rather bizarre for a museum to recruit people for a technical adv= isory group to help them with understanding old hardware, and then require th= em to sign an NDA for the privilege of helping them. >> paul >=20 > I assume with the immense wealth PA had that anyone and everyone connected = to him were sought out by people looking to try to pitch ideas, get grants, t= ry to sell thing things, etc. Maybe NDA helped reduce that noise to the org. >=20 > - Ethan But an NDA wouldn't do any of that. And conversely, asking people who are vo= lunteering their expert historic knowledge to sign an NDA is rather insulting= . Not to mention legally questionable, because if applied strictly it would = block those people from conveying the knowledge they have to LCM! paul --===============8958841963817437375==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Apr 25 16:24:54 2023 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 12:24:49 -0400 Message-ID: <9031C464-5975-4E3C-8264-7DB3EDCC52F4@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <16A818AE-12CF-4D67-B024-C3244DD96D83@snowmoose.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7653201399345470063==" --===============7653201399345470063== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Apr 25, 2023, at 11:55 AM, Alan Perry wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 06:03, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >>> firesale of the assets. >>> Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me >>> included. >>=20 >> I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishe= s he had lent his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's n= ot foolproof (a museum may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have= to worry about the museum, or some heir, deciding to trash the stuff. >=20 > Was lending ever an option with LCM? I loaned documents to an individual th= ere but when I was donating items to the museum itself I was told that they d= idn=E2=80=99t do loaning of items. Maybe, maybe not. But, given my own experience, I would have a "take it or l= eave it" attitude with any museum. If you want it, you can have it as a long= term loan, but I don't care about your policies; you can't have it as a dona= tion. paul --===============7653201399345470063==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Tue Apr 25 17:34:40 2023 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 10:34:23 -0700 Message-ID: <369EAB78-4C3F-4E6F-9CFE-A842CA21C10A@avanthar.com> In-Reply-To: <1601901890.4421467.1682435869255@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7805609515054622185==" --===============7805609515054622185== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99m not sure what you=E2=80=99re referring to. Prior to Paul Allen= =E2=80=99s death, I was mostly happy with LCM. There is one box that I *REAL= LY* wish I hadn=E2=80=99t donated to LCM. Zane > On Apr 25, 2023, at 8:17 AM, ED SHARPE wrote: >=20 > But Zane.... you seemed disenchanted with museums even before LCM closed...= apparently you wee not happy with LCM? Fill us in? >=20 > Sent from AOL on Android > On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 8:11 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk > wrote: > On Apr 24, 2023, at 11:16 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: > >=20 > > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > > firesale of the assets. > > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > > included. >=20 > I=E2=80=99m already unhappy, and wishing I=E2=80=99d not donated to the mus= eum. >=20 >=20 > Zane --===============7805609515054622185==-- From phb.hfx@gmail.com Tue Apr 25 17:46:20 2023 From: Paul Berger To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 14:46:14 -0300 Message-ID: <172617c0-e6ac-3502-56f5-9e831f40b67f@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81F5AB84-4FDF-4437-B15F-C663DCD10814@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1899161920252178402==" --===============1899161920252178402== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IBM did develop a machine to thread the wires through cores.=C2=A0 The cores = where held in place in a tray by vacuum and wires threaded through by=20 hollow needles to quote the book IBM's Early Computers, "When introduced=20 in 1959, this core threading machine reduced the time to thread X and Y=20 wires in a 64x64 plane from 25 hours to 12 minutes"=C2=A0 From that quote I=20 am guessing that the sense and inhibit lines where still wired by hand. Paul. On 2023-04-25 10:38 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:25 AM, KenUnix via cctalk = wrote: >> >> Rod, >> >> Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy. >> >> It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by >> little people. Or, big people with little hands. > People (often women I think) with steady hands. I think the setup used a w= ork surface with notches in it corresponding to the positions of each core. = They would pour a cup full of cores onto that and use gentle shaking and vibr= ating to get all those notches filled, then pour off the excess. Next, threa= ding the cores much like you thread a needle -- except that the wire is stiff= er than thread and thus easier to make it go straight through. > > One wonders if this could have been done by machine. Probably yes, but giv= en the volumes involved I suppose the capital investment wasn't justified. > > The more amazing kind of hand-wired core is core ROM, where the wires weave= in and out of various cores according to the required bit pattern. Getting = that right seems like a far more complicated craft. > > paul > > --===============1899161920252178402==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Tue Apr 25 18:15:22 2023 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 11:15:15 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7835196480757374157==" --===============7835196480757374157== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > Little old Billy G? > lol, like he gives a shit. He's too busy selling his snake oil and figuring > out ways to turn bugs and chemicals into your next meal. > I literally should have strangled him to death when I had the opportunity. Naah. Turn him into a millionaire! Imagine what it would do to him to have his net worth become $1,000,000. Although why would anybody need more than 640K? --===============7835196480757374157==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Tue Apr 25 18:43:34 2023 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 13:36:22 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7353470035835647171==" --===============7353470035835647171== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/25/23 01:16, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a > firesale of the assets. > Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me > included. > I am disappointed that Bill Gates hasn't bought it already to continue > Paul's vision. I guess Bill doesn't like old computers.  Constant turnover of newer machines sells a LOT of MS products. Jon --===============7353470035835647171==-- From cclist@sydex.com Tue Apr 25 21:02:55 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 14:02:44 -0700 Message-ID: <94189421-959a-9898-60c8-5c159a13e5e2@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <172617c0-e6ac-3502-56f5-9e831f40b67f@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4628983243421754644==" --===============4628983243421754644== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 4/25/23 10:46, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > IBM did develop a machine to thread the wires through cores.  The cores > where held in place in a tray by vacuum and wires threaded through by > hollow needles to quote the book IBM's Early Computers, "When introduced > in 1959, this core threading machine reduced the time to thread X and Y > wires in a 64x64 plane from 25 hours to 12 minutes"  From that quote I > am guessing that the sense and inhibit lines where still wired by hand. An alternative was to use a simplified threading scheme. I'm still amazed to this day that CDC ECS worked reliably: https://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/images/50690729-CDC-ExtendedCoreStorage.pdf --Chuck --===============4628983243421754644==-- From tarek@infocom.ai Tue Apr 25 23:49:05 2023 From: Tarek Hoteit To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: websites as subdomains under classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 16:47:52 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CSwIig0xoRz9oLjeZk9IvWjYDlSXws2ecA97DrIW6T=5FEzO0GL?= =?utf-8?q?LCadVVG2hf8hVh29zlgL6esmLndROB-2-ag5=5Fwthut9uO6yt18F1t3YbFR0=3D?= =?utf-8?q?=40virtadpt=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8551488655203965345==" --===============8551488655203965345== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting. So what comes up using The Doctor's URL are: - CPM Archives http://cpmarchives.classiccmp.org - Altair 32 http://altair32.classiccmp.org - url with broken links http://joe.classiccmp.org - Joe's Computer Mania http://joe.classiccmp.org/joespage.htm=20 - some 6800 material http://sjsclassicdocs.classiccmp.org - Transputer page http://transputer.classiccmp.org - Rich's classic computing pages http://cini.classiccmp.org - Daves Old Computers http://dunfield.classiccmp.org The CP/M one is awesome! On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 04:13:01PM +0000, The Doctor via cctalk wrote: >=20 > ------- Original Message ------- > On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at 22:48, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: >=20 >=20 > > I learned today about Dave=E2=80=99s Old Computer website http://dunfield= .classiccmp.org/ which is > > listed as a subdomain under classiccmp.org. I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of sub= domain sites. Can any one > > list any other ones or is a list of sites available ? >=20 > From a quick search: >=20 > https://online.seranking.com/research.competitor.html/organic/subdomains?in= put=3Dclassiccmp.org&mode=3Dbase_domain >=20 > The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] > WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ > Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean. >=20 --=20 Regards, Tarek Hoteit --===============8551488655203965345==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Wed Apr 26 05:31:59 2023 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 15:18:05 +0200 Message-ID: <71BC1035-D8C4-492C-A876-354E537DF78E@beaker.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9196033657151234904==" --===============9196033657151234904== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's see where this goes. I might need to do a forensic dump, fire up my NeX= T and find the letters and documents around ai.ai.mit.edu Figured this would happen. On April 25, 2023 3:03:02 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >> firesale of the assets. >> Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me >> included. > >I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes = he had lent his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not= foolproof (a museum may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have t= o worry about the museum, or some heir, deciding to trash the stuff. > > paul > > --===============9196033657151234904==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Wed Apr 26 05:32:04 2023 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 15:55:34 +0200 Message-ID: <1CD8C84E-0934-4C97-BA71-3C976857E798@beaker.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: <890C89D3-5B94-4AF9-B8C6-8CB021D326DF@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1167653590723124832==" --===============1167653590723124832== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well there is an agreement that if paul ever got tired of ai, lost interest, = and wanted to get rid of it then I would show up with a U-Haul to pick it up = off the dock. All this has happened before, all this will happen again. Digex, sandstorm, ftp, etc. Funny I thought it would end with Paul. CZ (My burden, I'm stuck with it) On April 25, 2023 3:50:33 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk wr= ote: >>=20 >> On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >>> firesale of the assets. >> AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" assets,= lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound. > >Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit? If you donate to the mus= eum, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit. That i= s, unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have = to hope that a court would enforce a contract. There is ample precedent of c= ourts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or trusts to permit mu= seums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements with donors. A rece= nt one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind. > > paul > > --===============1167653590723124832==-- From cz@beaker.crystel.com Wed Apr 26 05:32:11 2023 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 16:20:35 +0200 Message-ID: <850E1C60-FDD8-4D68-8988-2D5D41EE00A7@beaker.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: <81F5AB84-4FDF-4437-B15F-C663DCD10814@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6955366165453143512==" --===============6955366165453143512== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People who used to do watches. Similar size issues. On April 25, 2023 3:38:16 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:25 AM, KenUnix via cctalk = wrote: >>=20 >> Rod, >>=20 >> Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy. >>=20 >> It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by >> little people. Or, big people with little hands. > >People (often women I think) with steady hands. I think the setup used a wo= rk surface with notches in it corresponding to the positions of each core. T= hey would pour a cup full of cores onto that and use gentle shaking and vibra= ting to get all those notches filled, then pour off the excess. Next, thread= ing the cores much like you thread a needle -- except that the wire is stiffe= r than thread and thus easier to make it go straight through. > >One wonders if this could have been done by machine. Probably yes, but give= n the volumes involved I suppose the capital investment wasn't justified. > >The more amazing kind of hand-wired core is core ROM, where the wires weave = in and out of various cores according to the required bit pattern. Getting t= hat right seems like a far more complicated craft. > > paul > > --===============6955366165453143512==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sat Apr 29 12:30:20 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 13:30:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000001d97a96$58da12b0$0a8e3810$@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <01SQJMJFIC9U8WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6676738600131881688==" --===============6676738600131881688== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It looks like the conditions in the control and overcurrent sensing parts of the > working and the non-working PSUs are different so some further investigation > may be required as to why this is the case. > Yes, that is certainly the problem. Presumably more current is flowing through the current sense resistor than should be. I thought that perhaps the higher positive voltage might be enough to switch on the rectifier diode while the lower positive voltage on the good PSU won't, but it seems to switch on in both cases because I measured a voltage across the current sense resistor in both cases. I measured 0.08V on the bad PSU and 0.01 on the good PSU. So this would explain why an over current is being detected. What I don't now get is why the -12V output is higher on the bad PSU because if there is something shorted or a capacitor with high current leakage on the -12V output, that would surely result in a lower voltage on the -12V output, not a higher one? > > > > I hadn't noticed the connection to -12V on the non-inverting input of E1b. > > However, I don't think this can account for the 0.6V because in both > > the working and non-working PSUs the non-inverting input to E1b is 4V. > > > > See further down. > > > > > However, > > when I was checking this, I noticed that I must have made a mistake, > > because the -12V output actually measures +0.4V on the working PSU > > (not zero as I first thought), but the non-working PSU measures +0.6V. > > Also, I noticed that the -12V output on the working PSU rises more > > slowly to +0.4V than on the non-working PSU where it rises more quickly to > +0.6V. > > > > I still don't understand where this +ve voltage on the -12V output can > > come from though? Whether on the working PSU or the non-working PSU. > > > > The 4V at the non-inverting input of E1b is linked to the -12V line via the 75k > resistor and from there via a smoothing choke and the chopper transformer > secondary to the -12V line rectifier diode connected to pin 6 and on to > ground via the parallel diode/resistor combination. This should result in a > current of about 45 microamps flowing to ground through those components > mentioned. > This in turn should cause the rectifier to be forward biased and drop > approximately 0.6V across it which is characteristic of silicon diodes. > Does that make sense? It took me a while to understand this, but yes I get that now. > > (It's rather confusing in that the -12V line rectifier is on the ground side of the > chopper transformer secondary instead of on the supply side where it would > more usually be encountered. It's electrically all the same wherever it is put > as the components involved are in series anyway.) > > It ought to be possible to measure the same 0.6V across the diode to confirm > this is where it is being dropped (and to measure the remaining 3.4V of the > 4V at E1b across the 75k resistor). As to why it is only 0.4V on the working > power supply, I haven't thought that far ahead yet :-) On the bad PSU I measure a 0.48V drop across the rectifier diode (the one directly connected to the transformer, not the one in parallel with the current sense resistor), on the good PSU I measure a 0.4V drop. > > I think the +0.6V on the -12V line is explainable and to be expected under the > test conditions described. It looks like there could be something wrong in the > control circuitry which is preventing the power supply from starting up. > This might also account for the difference between the 0.4V and 0.6V. > > Brent's suggestions for checking the condition around the comparators and > how they are supplied with power are good ones. I haven't made any further > suggestions because I don't have any right now :-) I had forgotten about Brent's suggestion. Still need to check this. > > Regards, > Peter Coghlan. --===============6676738600131881688==-- From cctalk@beyondthepale.ie Sun Apr 30 02:03:32 2023 From: Peter Coghlan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 00:22:28 +0100 Message-ID: <01SQSM0LWUC88WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> In-Reply-To: <000001d97a96$58da12b0$0a8e3810$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1023927564489666846==" --===============1023927564489666846== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Yes, that is certainly the problem. Presumably more current is flowing > through the current sense resistor than should be. > Do you mean when the power supply is connected to the mains here? If we are still talking about the test case when you are applying an external supply to Vstart only, there should be almost zero current flowing through the 51 Ohm current sense resistor because the chopper is not operating because it has no HV supply. We can calculate the current flowing through the current sense resistor using Ohm's law given it's resistance and the voltage across it so we don't need to presume. > > I thought that perhaps > the higher positive voltage might be enough to switch on the rectifier diode > while the lower positive voltage on the good PSU won't, > My feeling is that (in the test case with external Vstart only) the -12V rectifier diode is being caused to conduct by the forward bias voltage applied to it from Vstart/V2 (should that be Vz I wonder?) via the 16k9 resistor, the 75k resistor and the wound components. The current available to flow through the diode is limited to some microamps by the 75k resistor. As Brent said, this is very low on the diode's characteristic curve and there are likely to be variations between the voltages dropped across different diodes. If diode was not present in the circuit, approx 4V (which IIRC you measured at E1b non-inverting input) should appear across the points where the diode would have been. It is more the characteristic of the diode which is determining how much voltage is appearing across itself than anything else. The other components involved have little say about what voltage appears across the diode. They just allow a small current to flow through the diode to forward bias it and the diode gets to decide how much voltage then appears across itself, depending on the magnitude of the current flowing through it when forward biased and it's characteristic curve. > > but it seems to > switch on in both cases because I measured a voltage across the current > sense resistor in both cases. I measured 0.08V on the bad PSU and 0.01 on > the good PSU. So this would explain why an over current is being detected. > 0.08V across a 51 Ohm resistor suggests that approx 1.6mA is flowing through it from Ohm's law. 0.01V across the same resistor suggests that approx 200 uA flowing through it. I assume this is with the power supply connected to the mains, not using the external supply to energise Vstart only as I can't see where 1.6mA would come from in the latter case. 1.6mA being drawn from the -12V supply is not suggestive of an overload unless it's capacity is very limited indeed. Perhaps this is the normal expected loading? 200uA seems very low indeed but perhaps this is to be expected? If the -12V line is not being produced, the load cannot draw any current from it. I don't think that either of these conditions should trigger an overload response from the PSU. (Are the 0.08V and and 0.01V voltages appearing in the same direction or is one of them positive and the other one negative?) (Does the resistor measure approximately 50 Ohms in both cases with the power switched off)? > > What I don't now get is why the -12V output is higher on the bad PSU because > if there is something shorted or a capacitor with high current leakage on > the -12V output, that would surely result in a lower voltage on the -12V > output, not a higher one? > Sorry, this is not very clear to me and I already get confused enough when dealing with negative supply rails. The -12V output being higher could refer to it's voltage being more positive with respect to 0V or it's voltage being more negative with respect to 0V. In any case, I'm not sure I recall what the voltages measured on the -12V lines of the working and non-working power supplies were with them connected to the mains. I think I recall they were +0.6V and +0.4V respectively when power was applied to Vstart only. I think it is likely that most of what we are seeing here is to be expected and is explainable either by the test conditions created by applying power to Vstart only or by conditions created by the presence of the fault and not necessarily because we are close to the location of the fault. I think the next step might be to check what is happening with the comparators. Are their positive power supply pins connected to Vstart or V2 (Vz?) or somewhere else? Are their negative supply pins connected to 0V or maybe to the -12V line or maybe somewhere else? Are they getting suitable volages on both supply pins that will enable them to operate under startup conditions? If either the positive or negative supply to one or more of them is missing or wildly incorrect at startup, they cannot be expected to do their jobs properly. It might be worth doing some more testing without a mains supply connected but with an external supply for Vstart and also an external negative supply going to the -12V line via a 2k7 resistor to mimic both the positive and negative startup supplies on sheet 1. Comparing (no pun intended) what appears on the positive and negative power supply pins of the comparators between the working and non-working power supplies under these conditions might reveal something. If the two behave similarly, it may be time to focus on whether the comparators in the faulty PSU are behaving correctly. However, I would be wary of attempting to make tests around any of the comparators with the mains supply connected to the PSU in case of inadvertently disabling a protection circuit which could be detecting and protecting against a real overload. This would probably lead to something going bang :-( > > > > > > I hadn't noticed the connection to -12V on the non-inverting input of E= 1b. > > > However, I don't think this can account for the 0.6V because in both > > > the working and non-working PSUs the non-inverting input to E1b is 4V. > > > > >=20 > > See further down. > >=20 > > > > > > However, > > > when I was checking this, I noticed that I must have made a mistake, > > > because the -12V output actually measures +0.4V on the working PSU > > > (not zero as I first thought), but the non-working PSU measures +0.6V. > > > Also, I noticed that the -12V output on the working PSU rises more > > > slowly to +0.4V than on the non-working PSU where it rises more quickly > > > to +0.6V. > > > > > > I still don't understand where this +ve voltage on the -12V output can > > > come from though? Whether on the working PSU or the non-working PSU. > > > > >=20 > > The 4V at the non-inverting input of E1b is linked to the -12V line via t= he 75k > > resistor and from there via a smoothing choke and the chopper transformer > > secondary to the -12V line rectifier diode connected to pin 6 and on to > > ground via the parallel diode/resistor combination. This should result in > > a current of about 45 microamps flowing to ground through those components > > mentioned. > > This in turn should cause the rectifier to be forward biased and drop > > approximately 0.6V across it which is characteristic of silicon diodes. > > Does that make sense? >=20 > It took me a while to understand this, but yes I get that now. > To expand a little further, I got the 45uA by applying Ohm's law to the 75k resistor with 3.4V across it. All the other resistances in series would be negligable compared to 75k. >=20 > >=20 > > (It's rather confusing in that the -12V line rectifier is on the ground s= ide of the > > chopper transformer secondary instead of on the supply side where it would > > more usually be encountered. It's electrically all the same wherever it > > is put as the components involved are in series anyway.) > >=20 > > It ought to be possible to measure the same 0.6V across the diode to conf= irm > this is where it is being dropped (and to measure the remaining 3.4V of the > 4V at E1b across the 75k resistor). As to why it is only 0.4V on the worki= ng > power supply, I haven't thought that far ahead yet :-) > > On the bad PSU I measure a 0.48V drop across the rectifier diode (the one > directly connected to the transformer, not the one in parallel with the > current sense resistor), on the good PSU I measure a 0.4V drop. > This seems reasonable given what Brent was saying about variation in diode characteristics when the current through them is very low. Regards, Peter Coghlan. >=20 >> I think the +0.6V on the -12V line is explainable and to be expected under= the >> test conditions described. It looks like there could be something wrong i= n the >> control circuitry which is preventing the power supply from starting up. >> This might also account for the difference between the 0.4V and 0.6V. >>=20 >> Brent's suggestions for checking the condition around the comparators and >> how they are supplied with power are good ones. I haven't made any >> further >> suggestions because I don't have any right now :-) > > I had forgotten about Brent's suggestion. Still need to check this. > >>=20 >> Regards, >> Peter Coghlan. > --===============1023927564489666846==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 30 18:26:48 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 19:26:38 +0100 Message-ID: <006001d97b91$4df9a120$e9ece360$@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <01SQSM0LWUC88WW2SM@beyondthepale.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5852890763183549600==" --===============5852890763183549600== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I have found a possible cause, but not too sure what to do about it if I have. I had to replace the 7812 regulator that supplies Vstart. The new one has an output that seems to vary between 12.2 and 12.4V. The 7812 on the good PSU outputs a steady 12.1V. I think that is enough to cause the E3d comparator to turn the comparator off and allow its output to float high. I suspect I may have used one with a wide tolerance rather than a narrow one, or just have a bad one. It should be a genuine part as it came from CPC Farnell. Not quite sure why the output varies on the bad one though. Regards Rob --===============5852890763183549600==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 30 20:34:57 2023 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:34:51 +0100 Message-ID: <006701d97ba3$3733fd20$a59bf760$@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCY4PR1001MB218172F3CF51E4510DA9B924E4699=40CY4PR10?= =?utf-8?q?01MB2181=2Enamprd10=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2784592931628881996==" --===============2784592931628881996== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like the one I used is an L7812CV, which has a looser tolerance. I am g= oing to have to order some tighter tolerance parts. > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne S > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2023 7:42 PM > To: Wayne S > Cc: rob(a)jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > ; Rob Jarratt > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault >=20 > The CT version is 4%, the ACT is 2%. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > > On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:37, Wayne S wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFSpec sheet for the 7812 shows 2 versions - 4% and 2% tolerances.= So the > voltages your measuring are within the 4% part. Maybe you do need the 2% > one. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:26, Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > >> > >> =EF=BB=BFI think I have found a possible cause, but not too sure what to= do > >> about it if I have. > >> > >> I had to replace the 7812 regulator that supplies Vstart. The new one > >> has an output that seems to vary between 12.2 and 12.4V. The 7812 on > >> the good PSU outputs a steady 12.1V. I think that is enough to cause > >> the E3d comparator to turn the comparator off and allow its output to > float high. > >> > >> I suspect I may have used one with a wide tolerance rather than a > >> narrow one, or just have a bad one. It should be a genuine part as it > >> came from CPC Farnell. Not quite sure why the output varies on the bad > one though. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Rob > >> > >> > >> --===============2784592931628881996==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sun Apr 30 22:24:10 2023 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Media permanence Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:24:01 -0700 Message-ID: <5032f634-96d8-707e-6dbd-554ed288dee3@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9212545978634537910==" --===============9212545978634537910== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw a clip of this project on DW News: https://www.memory-of-mankind.com/ They're recording works for posterity on ceramic tiles. How's that for preservation? --Chuck --===============9212545978634537910==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Mon May 1 05:32:17 2023 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 18:37:19 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006001d97b91$4df9a120$e9ece360$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4471926122420630726==" --===============4471926122420630726== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spec sheet for the 7812 shows 2 versions - 4% and 2% tolerances. So the volta= ges your measuring are within the 4% part. Maybe you do need the 2% one. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:26, Rob Jarratt via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI think I have found a possible cause, but not too sure what to do= about it > if I have. >=20 > I had to replace the 7812 regulator that supplies Vstart. The new one has an > output that seems to vary between 12.2 and 12.4V. The 7812 on the good PSU > outputs a steady 12.1V. I think that is enough to cause the E3d comparator > to turn the comparator off and allow its output to float high. >=20 > I suspect I may have used one with a wide tolerance rather than a narrow > one, or just have a bad one. It should be a genuine part as it came from CPC > Farnell. Not quite sure why the output varies on the bad one though. >=20 > Regards >=20 > Rob >=20 >=20 >=20 --===============4471926122420630726==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Mon May 1 05:32:21 2023 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 18:42:13 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCY4PR1001MB2181739F9B1C1C290F532C86E4699=40CY4PR10?= =?utf-8?q?01MB2181=2Enamprd10=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7976456662281470867==" --===============7976456662281470867== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The CT version is 4%, the ACT is 2%.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:37, Wayne S wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFSpec sheet for the 7812 shows 2 versions - 4% and 2% tolerances. S= o the voltages your measuring are within the 4% part. Maybe you do need the 2= % one. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:26, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFI think I have found a possible cause, but not too sure what to d= o about it >> if I have. >>=20 >> I had to replace the 7812 regulator that supplies Vstart. The new one has = an >> output that seems to vary between 12.2 and 12.4V. The 7812 on the good PSU >> outputs a steady 12.1V. I think that is enough to cause the E3d comparator >> to turn the comparator off and allow its output to float high. >>=20 >> I suspect I may have used one with a wide tolerance rather than a narrow >> one, or just have a bad one. It should be a genuine part as it came from C= PC >> Farnell. Not quite sure why the output varies on the bad one though. >>=20 >> Regards >>=20 >> Rob >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 --===============7976456662281470867==--