From drb@msu.edu Mon Jul 11 05:38:42 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 01:38:36 -0400 Message-ID: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2222465801688341414==" --===============2222465801688341414== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live test. Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to post to the list. The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access to archives of new postings from this point still require a little work, which I hope to complete in the next day or two. I will eventually import the old pipermail archives into the new posting archive, but that may take a little longer. The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! /Dennis Boone --===============2222465801688341414==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Mon Jul 11 06:32:24 2022 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 23:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1861654597048198548==" --===============1861654597048198548== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Google turns up very little specific information on either of these devices, = e.g. nil return from bit savers. The best leads I have are: - The UTR 700 was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems, one of w= hich fetched up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, England; perha= ps with documentation. Also, as it was used in government systems some maint= enance documentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew. - Some Facit 4060 documentation, for the 4060, its 4061 & 4063 chums and the = 5106 interface, look to be lodged in Box 52 of the ICL Collection at the Scie= nce Museum Library. The UTR 700 reader looks to be parallel interfaced, 10 single ended outputs f= rom an interface card. The jokes start with manufacturer codes, rather than = OEM part numbers on the 14 pin DIL ICs. However, a little scope work should = identify tape out, data 0..7 and strobe lines. More interesting questions ar= e lubrication and capacitor replacement - where a schematic would be a great = assistance in deciding how to proceed. etc etc The Facit 4060 punch contains no more than the electro-mechanical mechanism := AC drive motor, solenoids and rotary position sensors. The 4070 documentati= on (on BitSavers) may read across, in terms of sensor characteristics, soleno= id operating voltages and snubbing needs, or it may not. That reconstructing= the schematic would be straightforward simply identifies how much is missing= , and the difficulty of specifying it in the abscence of documentation. A cl= assic tape punch interface from data latch and ready, through position sensin= g, solenoid drivers and done logic is required, together with auxiliary indic= ations, e.g. tape out. etc etc Any information, wisdom, documentation or pointers to sources would be very m= uch appreciated. To state the obvious, I was passed these devices by Philip Belben Martin --===============1861654597048198548==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Mon Jul 11 07:02:19 2022 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 07:02:10 +0000 Message-ID: <916704277.1925796.1657522930873@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4925296146652578974==" --===============4925296146652578974== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SOMEWHERE I=C2=A0 HAVE=C2=A0 THIS AMAZING FACIT=C2=A0 PUNCH AN READER CATALOG= =C2=A0 BOOK THING,,,=C2=A0 TONS OF=C2=A0 UNITS BEAUTY PHOTOS=C2=A0 =C2=A0....= WHAT IS THE DATE ON THE UNITS=C2=A0 YOU SEEK INFO ON?? THANKS ED# In a message dated 7/10/2022 11:32:29 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk(a)= classiccmp.org writes:=C2=A0 Google turns up very little specific information on either of these devices, = e.g. nil return from bit savers.=C2=A0The best leads I have are:- The UTR 700= was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems, one of which fetched = up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, England; perhaps with docum= entation.=C2=A0 Also, as it was used in government systems some maintenance d= ocumentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew.- Some Facit 4060 documen= tation, for the 4060, its 4061 & 4063 chums and the 5106 interface, look to b= e lodged in Box 52 of the ICL Collection at the Science Museum Library.=C2=A0= The UTR 700 reader looks to be parallel interfaced, 10 single ended outputs f= rom an interface card.=C2=A0 The jokes start with manufacturer codes, rather = than OEM part numbers on the 14 pin DIL ICs.=C2=A0 However, a little scope wo= rk should identify tape out, data 0..7 and strobe lines.=C2=A0 More interesti= ng questions are lubrication and capacitor replacement - where a schematic wo= uld be a great assistance in deciding how to proceed.=C2=A0 etc etc=C2=A0The = Facit 4060 punch contains no more than the electro-mechanical mechanism : AC = drive motor, solenoids and rotary position sensors.=C2=A0 The 4070 documentat= ion (on BitSavers) may read across, in terms of sensor characteristics, solen= oid operating voltages and snubbing needs, or it may not.=C2=A0 That reconstr= ucting the schematic would be straightforward simply identifies how much is m= issing, and the difficulty of specifying it in the abscence of documentation.= =C2=A0 A classic tape punch interface from data latch and ready, through posi= tion sensing, solenoid drivers and done logic is required, together with auxi= liary indications, e.g. tape out.=C2=A0 etc etc=C2=A0Any information, wisdom,= documentation or pointers to sources would be very much appreciated.=C2=A0To= state the obvious, I was passed these devices by Philip Belben=C2=A0Martin --===============4925296146652578974==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Mon Jul 11 07:13:00 2022 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 07:12:51 +0000 Message-ID: <438120004.1877138.1657523571906@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1758556827464592934==" --===============1758556827464592934== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://gesrepair.com/products/4070-facit-tape-punch/ YIKES=C2=A0 =C2=A0EXPENSIVE TO FIX In a message dated 7/10/2022 11:32:29 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk(a)= classiccmp.org writes:=C2=A0 UTR 700 --===============1758556827464592934==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Mon Jul 11 07:46:26 2022 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 07:46:21 +0000 Message-ID: <1333812669.2543268.1657525581236@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6536532622212290836==" --===============6536532622212290836== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THAT=C2=A0 IS=C2=A0 NEAR=C2=A0 RAGE=C2=A0 OF=C2=A0 DATES=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 =C2=A0= THINK OF NOOK=C2=A0 NO PROMISES BUT=C2=A0 WILL SEE IF=C2=A0 I CAN FOND=C2=A0 = WHERE I STASHED=C2=A0 THE BOOK! =C2=A0ED# In a message dated 7/11/2022 12:42:03 AM US Mountain Standard Time, mjd.bisho= p(a)emeritus-solutions.com writes:=C2=A0 The Facit 4060 appears to be from the 1968 - 1969 period The Trend UTR 700 from ~1980, based on IC date codes Martin -----Original Message----- From: ED SHARPE via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 11 July 2022 08:02 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: ED SHARPE Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Pu= nch SOMEWHERE I=C2=A0 HAVE=C2=A0 THIS AMAZING FACIT=C2=A0 PUNCH AN READER CATALOG= =C2=A0 BOOK THING,,,=C2=A0 TONS OF=C2=A0 UNITS BEAUTY PHOTOS=C2=A0 =C2=A0....= WHAT IS THE DATE ON THE UNITS=C2=A0 YOU SEEK INFO ON?? THANKS ED# In a message dated 7/10/2022 11:32:29 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk(a)= classiccmp.org writes: Google turns up very little specific information on ei= ther of these devices, e.g. nil return from bit savers.=C2=A0The best leads I= have are:- The UTR 700 was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems= , one of which fetched up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, Engl= and; perhaps with documentation.=C2=A0 Also, as it was used in government sys= tems some maintenance documentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew.- = Some Facit 4060 documentation, for the 4060, its 4061 & 4063 chums and the 51= 06 interface, look to be lodged in Box 52 of the ICL Collection at the Scienc= e Museum Library.=C2=A0The UTR 700 reader looks to be parallel interfaced, 10= single ended outputs from an interface card.=C2=A0 The jokes start with manu= facturer codes, rather than OEM part numbers on the 14 pin DIL ICs.=C2=A0 How= ever, a little scope work should identify tape out, data 0..7 and strobe line= s.=C2=A0 More interesting questions are lubrication and capacitor replacement= - where a schematic would be a great assistance in deciding how to proceed.= =C2=A0 etc etc=C2=A0The Facit 4060 punch contains no more than the electro-me= chanical mechanism : AC drive motor, solenoids and rotary position sensors.= =C2=A0 The 4070 documentation (on BitSavers) may read across, in terms of sen= sor characteristics, solenoid operating voltages and snubbing needs, or it ma= y not.=C2=A0 That reconstructing the schematic would be straightforward simpl= y identifies how much is missing, and the difficulty of specifying it in the = abscence of documentation.=C2=A0 A classic tape punch interface from data lat= ch and ready, through position sensing, solenoid drivers and done logic is re= quired, together with auxiliary indications, e.g. tape out.=C2=A0 etc etc=C2= =A0Any information, wisdom, documentation or pointers to sources would be ver= y much appreciated.=C2=A0To state the obvious, I was passed these devices by = Philip Belben=C2=A0Martin --===============6536532622212290836==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Mon Jul 11 12:08:39 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:06:04 -0400 Message-ID: <5557D26C-0623-4C1F-A841-7CBC59B443B9@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7942829950995749907==" --===============7942829950995749907== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks good! And many thanks to Jay West and to the CCCG. paul > On Jul 11, 2022, at 1:38 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Friends, >=20 > The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new > host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail > handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live > test. Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to > post to the list. >=20 > The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access > to archives of new postings from this point still require a little work, > which I hope to complete in the next day or two. I will eventually > import the old pipermail archives into the new posting archive, but that > may take a little longer. >=20 > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. >=20 > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! >=20 > /Dennis Boone --===============7942829950995749907==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Mon Jul 11 12:11:44 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Xerox 800 Word Processor 1974 promo film Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:03:26 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <25c67dcb-6f91-28d3-8548-c167396c707b@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8342881380080997451==" --===============8342881380080997451== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 10, 2022, at 5:06 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 7/10/22 13:41, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jul 10, 2022, at 4:10 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022, Grant Taylor wrote: >>>> I don't know that I've ever heard / seen the name "Rank" prefixing "Xero= x" before. >>>=20 >>> Actually I knew them only as Rank Xerox many years ago, when they were co= mmonly known as office suppliers, e.g. photo copiers and printers. >>=20 >> Is the "Rank" prefix part of the company name in Europe? =20 >=20 > For a time, it was even present in Japan. >=20 > The Rank Organisation. Surely you've seen some old British Pinewood > Studios films with J. Arthur Rank's big gong as an intro? It's vaguely familiar. Another part of the Rank organization, at one time, was precision measurement= company Taylor-Hobson. I remember several of their their instruments in the= metrology lab at U. Eindhoven. paul --===============8342881380080997451==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Jul 11 14:12:54 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Vintage Computing Hosting [Was: List migration] Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 09:50:20 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5557D26C-0623-4C1F-A841-7CBC59B443B9@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1989729830445226305==" --===============1989729830445226305== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. > > > > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! > > > > Who else provides free vintage computer-themed web site hosting as a group service? I know neurotica.com (LSSM) does too, and I realize a lot of people have home servers that host their web sites on the subject, still, right? All of my servers are on AWS at this point, although I still have a large rack at home with dormant / test servers with aging OS's. Red Hat 6 anyone?... I have the space to host a mirror or two, should there be a need. My company hosts a mirror for https://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/comp/ on https://www.vintagecomputer.net/fjkraan/ Bill --===============1989729830445226305==-- From lproven@gmail.com Mon Jul 11 14:24:25 2022 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Xerox 800 Word Processor 1974 promo film Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:26:32 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4917295462954254011==" --===============4917295462954254011== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 10:10, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > Actually I knew them only as Rank Xerox many years ago, when they were > commonly known as office suppliers, e.g. photo copiers and printers. Ditto. I think this may be another of those US/rest-of-world things. To this Brit, the only company I knew of with this name was "Rank Xerox" and I had never heard of "Xerox" as a company (nor as a verb) until I was an adult working in the tech industry and learned of Xerox PARC and its role in the development of Smalltalk, OOPS, the GUI etc. So probably roughly in my late 20s or early 30s. "To xerox" meaning "to make a photocopy" was something I learned around the same time. This is not a verb in British English, nor I think in any non-North-American dialects of English. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============4917295462954254011==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Mon Jul 11 14:25:34 2022 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage Computing Hosting [Was: List migration] Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:17:00 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4195833740672960942==" --===============4195833740672960942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We do hosting for a few other hobbyists, and Andy Meyer has his Sony SMC-70 p= ages on users.glitchwrks.com subdomain: http://users.glitchwrks.com/~ahm/smc70/ Not really advertised as a service, just one of those things where a few frie= nds have needed a place to host a few things! Thanks, Jonathan ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, July 11th, 2022 at 09:50, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > > > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. > > > > > > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! > > Who else provides free vintage computer-themed web site hosting as a group > service? I know neurotica.com (LSSM) does too, and I realize a lot of > people have home servers that host their web sites on the subject, still, > right? > > All of my servers are on AWS at this point, although I still have a large > rack at home with dormant / test servers with aging OS's. Red Hat 6 > anyone?... > > I have the space to host a mirror or two, should there be a need. My > company hosts a mirror for > https://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/comp/ > on > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/fjkraan/ > > Bill --===============4195833740672960942==-- From ethan@757.org Mon Jul 11 14:59:32 2022 From: Ethan O'Toole To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage Computing Hosting [Was: List migration] Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 10:54:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7476637837318767327==" --===============7476637837318767327== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Who else provides free vintage computer-themed web site hosting as a group > service? I know neurotica.com (LSSM) does too, and I realize a lot of > people have home servers that host their web sites on the subject, still, > right? My shell host of friends is at a tier 1 colocation facility. 1.5ms to google, half a ms to aws and azure. Just spun up VMs for running a BBS for MAGFest and trying to figure out analog modem inbound for it. If someone needed to host a project for the community I could help, same goes with mirrors. My costs are fixed and the box is prety beefy (thanks to friends.) Shell host is probably 30 years at this point. -- : Ethan O'Toole --===============7476637837318767327==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Mon Jul 11 14:59:43 2022 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:59:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2551983964130004471==" --===============2551983964130004471== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errata : Trend UDR 700, not UTR -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bishop via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 11 July 2022 00:25 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts (cctalk(a)classiccmp.org= ) Cc: Martin Bishop Subject: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Google turns up very little specific information on either of these devices, = e.g. nil return from bit savers. The best leads I have are: - The UTR 700 was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems, one of w= hich fetched up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, England; perha= ps with documentation. Also, as it was used in government systems some maint= enance documentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew. - Some Facit 4060 documentation, for the 4060, its 4061 & 4063 chums and the = 5106 interface, look to be lodged in Box 52 of the ICL Collection at the Scie= nce Museum Library. The UTR 700 reader looks to be parallel interfaced, 10 single ended outputs f= rom an interface card. The jokes start with manufacturer codes, rather than = OEM part numbers on the 14 pin DIL ICs. However, a little scope work should = identify tape out, data 0..7 and strobe lines. More interesting questions ar= e lubrication and capacitor replacement - where a schematic would be a great = assistance in deciding how to proceed. etc etc The Facit 4060 punch contains no more than the electro-mechanical mechanism := AC drive motor, solenoids and rotary position sensors. The 4070 documentati= on (on BitSavers) may read across, in terms of sensor characteristics, soleno= id operating voltages and snubbing needs, or it may not. That reconstructing= the schematic would be straightforward simply identifies how much is missing= , and the difficulty of specifying it in the abscence of documentation. A cl= assic tape punch interface from data latch and ready, through position sensin= g, solenoid drivers and done logic is required, together with auxiliary indic= ations, e.g. tape out. etc etc Any information, wisdom, documentation or pointers to sources would be very m= uch appreciated. To state the obvious, I was passed these devices by Philip Belben Martin --===============2551983964130004471==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Mon Jul 11 16:02:14 2022 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 07:41:59 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <916704277.1925796.1657522930873@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0813497793360110191==" --===============0813497793360110191== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Facit 4060 appears to be from the 1968 - 1969 period The Trend UTR 700 from ~1980, based on IC date codes Martin -----Original Message----- From: ED SHARPE via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 11 July 2022 08:02 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: ED SHARPE Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Pu= nch SOMEWHERE I=C2=A0 HAVE=C2=A0 THIS AMAZING FACIT=C2=A0 PUNCH AN READER CATALOG= =C2=A0 BOOK THING,,,=C2=A0 TONS OF=C2=A0 UNITS BEAUTY PHOTOS=C2=A0 =C2=A0....= WHAT IS THE DATE ON THE UNITS=C2=A0 YOU SEEK INFO ON?? THANKS ED# In a message dated 7/10/2022 11:32:29 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk(a)= classiccmp.org writes: Google turns up very little specific information on ei= ther of these devices, e.g. nil return from bit savers.=C2=A0The best leads I= have are:- The UTR 700 was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems= , one of which fetched up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, Engl= and; perhaps with documentation.=C2=A0 Also, as it was used in government sys= tems some maintenance documentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew.- = Some Facit 4060 documentation, for the 4060, its 4061 & 4063 chums and the 51= 06 interface, look to be lodged in Box 52 of the ICL Collection at the Scienc= e Museum Library.=C2=A0The UTR 700 reader looks to be parallel interfaced, 10= single ended outputs from an interface card.=C2=A0 The jokes start with manu= facturer codes, rather than OEM part numbers on the 14 pin DIL ICs.=C2=A0 How= ever, a little scope work should identify tape out, data 0..7 and strobe line= s.=C2=A0 More interesting questions are lubrication and capacitor replacement= - where a schematic would be a great assistance in deciding how to proceed.= =C2=A0 etc etc=C2=A0The Facit 4060 punch contains no more than the electro-me= chanical mechanism : AC drive motor, solenoids and rotary position sensors.= =C2=A0 The 4070 documentation (on BitSavers) may read across, in terms of sen= sor characteristics, solenoid operating voltages and snubbing needs, or it ma= y not.=C2=A0 That reconstructing the schematic would be straightforward simpl= y identifies how much is missing, and the difficulty of specifying it in the = abscence of documentation.=C2=A0 A classic tape punch interface from data lat= ch and ready, through position sensing, solenoid drivers and done logic is re= quired, together with auxiliary indications, e.g. tape out.=C2=A0 etc etc=C2= =A0Any information, wisdom, documentation or pointers to sources would be ver= y much appreciated.=C2=A0To state the obvious, I was passed these devices by = Philip Belben=C2=A0Martin --===============0813497793360110191==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Mon Jul 11 18:24:58 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: LaserMaster LX-6 Controller Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 11:20:02 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01d89552$d6f44820$84dcd860$@net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1235289334910564385==" --===============1235289334910564385== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Long shot but.... I have in my possession a LaserMaster LX-6 controller. The controller allows = achieving much higher res from a HP LJII then one would normally be able to (= 600x300 DPI vs. the standard 300x300 DPI).=20 If you are really interested can read more about it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=3D2jkWJsu_9CoC&lpg=3DRA1-PA46&ots=3DHrKHEtL= GTu&dq=3D%22lasermaster%22%20driver&pg=3DRA1-PA46#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dtrue I have all the requisite HW but I am lacking the manual and more importantly = the driver SW. I was able to locate multiple copies of the LM website on The = Wayback Machine. Unfortunately, while some of the smaller files have been arc= hived all the main EXE and ZIP files are missing. For example see: http://web.archive.org/web/20000301145615/http://www.colorspan.com/support/so= ftware/software.htm I am wondering if anyone has any drivers for this card. A manual would be mos= t excellent as well but drivers are more necessary. Thanks. -Ali --===============1235289334910564385==-- From Wayne.Smith@warnerbros.com Mon Jul 11 19:23:46 2022 From: "Smith, Wayne" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 18:24:42 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7344165444994726090==" --===============7344165444994726090== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks, Jay! -W Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 01:38:36 -0400 From: Dennis Boone Subject: List migration To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org, cctech(a)classiccmp.org Message-ID: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07(a)yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Friends, The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new host in= Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail handling to the= new server, and this message will be the first live test. Assuming this wor= ks, you shouldn't have to change anything to post to the list. The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access to arc= hives of new postings from this point still require a little work, which I ho= pe to complete in the next day or two. I will eventually import the old pipe= rmail archives into the new posting archive, but that may take a little longe= r. The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! /Dennis Boone ------------------------------ --===============7344165444994726090==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Mon Jul 11 22:05:49 2022 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:56:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2851879405888787315==" --===============2851879405888787315== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. >=20 > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! Thanks, Jay, CCC and Dennis! --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- An intellectual is someone whose mind watches itself. -- Albert Camus ----= -- --===============2851879405888787315==-- From dave@661.org Mon Jul 11 23:32:26 2022 From: David Griffith To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:25:05 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6060017582451631927==" --===============6060017582451631927== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My reply is at the bottom. Please put your reply there too. On Mon, 11 Jul 2022, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Friends, > > The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new > host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail > handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live > test. Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to > post to the list. > > The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access > to archives of new postings from this point still require a little work, > which I hope to complete in the next day or two. I will eventually > import the old pipermail archives into the new posting archive, but that > may take a little longer. > > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. > > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! Looks good except for missing an X-BeenThere: header. -- David Griffith dave(a)661.org --===============6060017582451631927==-- From lbickley@bickleywest.com Tue Jul 12 02:15:47 2022 From: Lyle Bickley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 18:57:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20220711185749.72b6ddcc@asrock> In-Reply-To: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9092200781165795788==" --===============9092200781165795788== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 01:38:36 -0400 Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Friends, > > The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new > host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail > handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live > test. Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to > post to the list. > > The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access > to archives of new postings from this point still require a little work, > which I hope to complete in the next day or two. I will eventually > import the old pipermail archives into the new posting archive, but that > may take a little longer. > > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. > > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! > > /Dennis Boone Indeed many thanks to Jay!!! Thanks to Dennis, too, for migrating cctalk and cctech to a new host :) Cheers, Lyle -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" --===============9092200781165795788==-- From cclist@sydex.com Tue Jul 12 02:52:42 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 19:37:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3707955f-df96-d3a6-eabc-5b4e5bbae5c6@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2217341280722528983==" --===============2217341280722528983== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/11/22 16:25, David Griffith via cctalk wrote: > > My reply is at the bottom.  Please put your reply there too. > On Mon, 11 Jul 2022, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >> Friends, >> >> The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new >> host in Chicago is underway.  This evening, I've moved the list mail >> handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live >> test.  Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to >> post to the list. >> >> The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access >> to archives of new postings from this point still require a little work, >> which I hope to complete in the next day or two.  I will eventually >> import the old pipermail archives into the new posting archive, but that >> may take a little longer. >> >> The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. >> >> Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! > > Looks good except for missing an X-BeenThere: header. > Looks good from here! Thanks much! --===============2217341280722528983==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Tue Jul 12 03:37:29 2022 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 03:37:20 +0000 Message-ID: <2024217844.136144.1657597040163@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8401435432777758131==" --===============8401435432777758131== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 20 years... congrats Jay! Ed# Sent from the all new AOL app for Android=20 =20 On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:55 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Comput= ing group. >=20 > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! Thanks, Jay, CCC and Dennis! --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- =C2=A0 Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)flood= gap.com -- An intellectual is someone whose mind watches itself. -- Albert Camus ----= -- =20 --===============8401435432777758131==-- From organlists1@sonic.net Tue Jul 12 12:02:15 2022 From: "D. Resor" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Xerox 800 Word Processor 1974 promo film Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 04:34:15 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6315286288380352972==" --===============6315286288380352972== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a search I found a digital brochure for the Xerox 800. =20 =20 The text is in Dutch. The text can be highlighted therefore I think it can b= e then sent to a translator. =20 https://classic.technology/xerox-800/ =20 Don Resor =20 From: Eric Smith =20 Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 11:56 AM To: D. Resor ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-= Topic Posts Subject: Re: Xerox 800 Word Processor 1974 promo film =20 Anyone know what's inside the Xerox 800? There seems to be little information= online about any of the 800 series other than the 820. Based on the year of = introduction of the 800, and allowing for time prior to that spent in develop= ment, I'm guessing that it's not microprocessor-based. (Whereas the 820 is.) =20 Eric =20 =20 On Sat, Jul 2, 2022, 03:50 D. Resor via cctalk > wrote: This video just popped up in my YT view. It was posted a couple days ago. At the end of the video, a recap of several Xerox computer products are shown. XEROX Word Processing Machines & Computers 1975 (Xerox 800 vintage promo film) https://youtu.be/Zkl80BAiaIw=20 Computer History Archive Don Resor --===============6315286288380352972==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Tue Jul 12 13:29:48 2022 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 13:29:43 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1540548985956662432==" --===============1540548985956662432== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is a UDR 700, my dyslexia and why I did not find your posts from 2020. A copy of the user manual would be very much apreciated, as would info on the= unibus interface. However, I'm quite happy to interface to the back of the reader "I think". I shall eMail you privately details of an FTP site you could upload to. Martin -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com]=20 Sent: 12 July 2022 04:45 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Martin Bishop Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Pu= nch On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 7:32 AM Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > > Google turns up very little specific information on either of these devices= , e.g. nil return from bit savers. > > The best leads I have are: > - The UTR 700 was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems, one of= which fetched up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, England; per= haps with documentation. Also, as it was used in government systems some mai= ntenance documentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew. Are you sure it's a UTR700 and not a UDR700? The latter is a 'UniDirectional = Reader' running at 700 characters/second. I've seen them badge-engeered 'Sola= rtron' too. I also have a Unibus interface for them. If it is a UDR700, I have the 'user' manual which includes full schematics, p= arts lists, alignment data, etc. I did offer this to bitsavers along with the= manual for the HSR500 (bidirectional, 500 cps) but they weren't interested. Unfortunately the manual is nearly 140MByte= s (my scanner software is very inefficient!) so too large to post or e-mail, = but I can snail-mail a CD-ROM or memory stick with it on. -tony --===============1540548985956662432==-- From bdweb@mindspring.com Tue Jul 12 18:03:46 2022 From: Bjoren Davis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 20:58:38 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3053159536585929692==" --===============3053159536585929692== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Classic fans, Recently eBay seller smhelectronics261 posted a very interesting prototype board: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295087630609 The description is "Dec Digital PRO 350/380 Professional Microvax II Proto 54-16707 Collectors", and the board art mentions "MICROVAX SOFTCARD." Does anyone know anything about this card?  Especially curious is the daughtercard connector: is it just for RAM expansion or is the daughtercard necessary for card operation? The photographs are fuzzy, but the more recent chip date I can see is 8536 (on one of the QFPs).  This puts the board in the time period of the MicroVAX II development. The internal "MicroVAX Business Plan" (http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/610/memos/Microvax_Business_Plan_Dec83.pdf) mentions a "Meteor" project (p. 11).  It describes Meteor as: Meteor is Digital's first single-user MicroVAX product. Developed within Low End Engineering, the product is positioned as a strong competitor in the low end, technical/scientific and the high end office/business graphics workstation market. Meteor should be an effective follow-on product to the Professional Series and high end VAX/Seahorse workstations. Although not a replacement product per se, Meteor represents a clear migration path for PRO users upward in functionality, and for VAX Workstation applications downward to a lower cost, single user design. Does anyone know if this board is Meteor? I'll be bidding on the board, but given how pricey CTI boards have gotten recently (a DECNA card from the same seller recently sold for $422.99), I probably won't win.  If the winner of the auction reads this, could they please contact me?  I'd like to collect an image of the boot ROM from the board, if possible. Thanks. --Bjoren --===============3053159536585929692==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Jul 12 19:04:08 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage Computing Hosting [Was: List migration] Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 19:04:05 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CwsVO-QV85GH6ApMmwNl38HIPTPfVAM2jEhE5LYfRK5=5FtsyC6?= =?utf-8?q?R6ylFj5-28SmpIIuTXo=5FHLPtbmi0k5fobr1Fn1XxWbl-gelRoF8H=5FW45uz4?= =?utf-8?q?=3D=40glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1198022471543729420==" --===============1198022471543729420== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 10:25 AM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > We do hosting for a few other hobbyists, and Andy Meyer has his Sony > SMC-70 pages on users.glitchwrks.com subdomain: > > http://users.glitchwrks.com/~ahm/smc70/ > > Not really advertised as a service, just one of those things where a few > friends have needed a place to host a few things! > > Thanks, > Jonathan > Yah, basically me too. Bill --===============1198022471543729420==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Tue Jul 12 19:58:23 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:48:49 -0400 Message-ID: <7920e5d0-4475-e234-3c59-d4ae6781e498@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3737924665651875005==" --===============3737924665651875005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Recently eBay seller smhelectronics261 posted a very interesting > prototype board: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295087630609 > > The description is "Dec Digital PRO 350/380 Professional Microvax II > Proto 54-16707 Collectors", and the board art mentions "MICROVAX SOFTCARD." Well, that is a weird concept. Maybe they were gunning to make the absolutely slowest Vax system ever, the MV1 just wasn't enough of a challenge.... > Does anyone know anything about this card?  Especially curious is the > daughtercard connector: is it just for RAM expansion or is the > daughtercard necessary for card operation? Daughtercard almost looks like a Pro memory board, but those were 16 bit and only 256kw in size if I recall. That's can't be enough to do anything useful. > I'll be bidding on the board, but given how pricey CTI boards have > gotten recently (a DECNA card from the same seller recently sold for > $422.99), I probably won't win.  If the winner of the auction reads > this, could they please contact me?  I'd like to collect an image of the > boot ROM from the board, if possible. I might drop a bid on it, but that's one of those serious "what the hell would I do with it" sort of things. I still can't believe that DEC would try to run Microvax code on a system like the Pro with a hard drive controller which was slower than a literal snail.... Maybe DEC had an RQDX3 or ESDI CTI controller with real DMA somewhere in the works? --===============3737924665651875005==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Wed Jul 13 00:03:26 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 20:02:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3A7A250D-7252-4406-B653-6C0F916FC51A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <7920e5d0-4475-e234-3c59-d4ae6781e498@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6126778486549816191==" --===============6126778486549816191== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 12, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: >=20 >> Recently eBay seller smhelectronics261 posted a very interesting prototype= board: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295087630609 >> The description is "Dec Digital PRO 350/380 Professional Microvax II Proto= 54-16707 Collectors", and the board art mentions "MICROVAX SOFTCARD." >=20 > Well, that is a weird concept. Maybe they were gunning to make the absolute= ly slowest Vax system ever, the MV1 just wasn't enough of a challenge.... >=20 >> Does anyone know anything about this card? Especially curious is the daug= htercard connector: is it just for RAM expansion or is the daughtercard neces= sary for card operation? >=20 > Daughtercard almost looks like a Pro memory board, but those were 16 bit an= d only 256kw in size if I recall. That's can't be enough to do anything usefu= l. The standard ones, yes, but the connector and address wires supported up to a= MW per board, perhaps even 2. It's mentioned in the Pro technical manual. = I thought about building such a beast, never did. paul --===============6126778486549816191==-- From bdweb@mindspring.com Wed Jul 13 05:12:37 2022 From: Bjoren Davis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:07:27 +0300 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3A7A250D-7252-4406-B653-6C0F916FC51A@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0954887104896049440==" --===============0954887104896049440== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/13/2022 3:02 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >>> Does anyone know anything about this card? Especially curious is the dau= ghtercard connector: is it just for RAM expansion or is the daughtercard nece= ssary for card operation? >> Daughtercard almost looks like a Pro memory board, but those were 16 bit a= nd only 256kw in size if I recall. That's can't be enough to do anything usef= ul. > The standard ones, yes, but the connector and address wires supported up to= a MW per board, perhaps even 2. It's mentioned in the Pro technical manual.= I thought about building such a beast, never did. I actually did design and build such a board, and yes, it supports up to=20 2 MB (on the PC380 only). But the connector on the eBay board can't be a connector for a DEC=20 Professional RAM daughtercard because it's the wrong gender and has too=20 many positions.=C2=A0 The DEC Pro RAM daughtercards also have header sockets,= =20 not pins, and they either have 40 positions (PC325/PC350) or 48=20 positions (PC380).=C2=A0 The eBay board seems to have a connector with 2x32 = =3D=20 64 positions. --Bjoren --===============0954887104896049440==-- From p.gebhardt@ymail.com Wed Jul 13 06:11:55 2022 From: P Gebhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 06:11:38 +0000 Message-ID: <915236555.998573.1657692698851@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <915236555.998573.1657692698851.ref@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6735972349070300963==" --===============6735972349070300963== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello list,=20 does anybody of you know colour codes or the mixture to obtain the grey paint= that DEC used for their early H960 cabinet side panels as well as for their = later cabinet from the 80s and 90s like the H9A10 or H9A15?=20 Some of my cabinets have scratches and I would like to cosmetically fix this.= =20 I thought I remember some discussions about DEC paint some years ago but I co= uldn't find anything helpful in my archives except for discussions about colo= urs for DEC's classic front panels.=20 Any pointers are very much appreciated. Thanks,=20 Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de --===============6735972349070300963==-- From trash80@internode.on.net Wed Jul 13 07:06:12 2022 From: Kevin Parker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:00:57 +1000 Message-ID: <001801d89686$4db1ed80$e915c880$@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: <915236555.998573.1657692698851@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5387094549551108428==" --===============5387094549551108428== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Assuming you have a portable piece of it you should be able to take it your h= ardware store and their paint dept can scan it for a colour match.=20 Kevin Parker -----Original Message----- From: P Gebhardt via cctalk =20 Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2022 16:12 To: cctalk Cc: P Gebhardt Subject: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Hello list,=20 does anybody of you know colour codes or the mixture to obtain the grey paint= that DEC used for their early H960 cabinet side panels as well as for their = later cabinet from the 80s and 90s like the H9A10 or H9A15?=20 Some of my cabinets have scratches and I would like to cosmetically fix this.= =20 I thought I remember some discussions about DEC paint some years ago but I co= uldn't find anything helpful in my archives except for discussions about colo= urs for DEC's classic front panels.=20 Any pointers are very much appreciated. Thanks,=20 Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de --===============5387094549551108428==-- From matt@9track.net Wed Jul 13 08:34:43 2022 From: Matt Burke To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:16:16 +0100 Message-ID: <62728059-abe5-fab5-0849-712f52c2b560@9track.net> In-Reply-To: <915236555.998573.1657692698851@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3138862037138804483==" --===============3138862037138804483== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 13/07/2022 07:11, P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote: > Hello list,=20 > > does anybody of you know colour codes or the mixture to obtain the grey pai= nt that DEC used for their early H960 cabinet side panels as well as for thei= r later cabinet from the 80s and 90s like the H9A10 or H9A15?=20 Some of the colours are listed in DEC-STD-092 (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/standards/EL-00092-00-0_F_Finish_and_Color_= Standard_Dec82.pdf) though it's not immediately obvious which one is the grey for the cabinet side panels. Even then I think it's tricky to map to something you can actually buy. MUN is short for Munsell. Not sure about CHM. The other question is how to reproduce the textured finish of the paint? This is not something unique to DEC and I've seen it on many products even up to this day. If I knew what the pattern used on DEC cabinets was called then I could probably find out how to do it. Possibly "wrinkle finish"? DEC-STD-092 mentions textured paint but doesn't give any details. Matt --===============3138862037138804483==-- From geneb@deltasoft.com Wed Jul 13 13:55:42 2022 From: geneb To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 06:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <62728059-abe5-fab5-0849-712f52c2b560@9track.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4914873613321906788==" --===============4914873613321906788== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 13 Jul 2022, Matt Burke via cctalk wrote: > On 13/07/2022 07:11, P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote: >> Hello list, >> >> does anybody of you know colour codes or the mixture to obtain the grey pa= int that DEC used for their early H960 cabinet side panels as well as for the= ir later cabinet from the 80s and 90s like the H9A10 or H9A15? > > Some of the colours are listed in DEC-STD-092 > (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/standards/EL-00092-00-0_F_Finish_and_Colo= r_Standard_Dec82.pdf) > though it's not immediately obvious which one is the grey for the > cabinet side panels. Even then I think it's tricky to map to something > you can actually buy. MUN is short for Munsell. Not sure about CHM. > There's a number of resources on the net for looking up Munsell color=20 numbers, and that might get you to what the color actually looks like. A=20 dedicated paint store may even be able to mix up paint based on the=20 original Munsell color code. g. --=20 Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! --===============4914873613321906788==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Wed Jul 13 14:37:15 2022 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Kinetic Systems 2920-Z2B. Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:29:57 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6018738033231134955==" --===============6018738033231134955== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/27/22 08:34, Mark Kahrs via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have one of these haunting their Q bus board pile? The LSSM would > deadly like one. Bad news.  We had a big cleanup in our lab last year, and got rid of a LOT of stuff.  I'm pretty sure we had a 2922, that was the CAMAC crate controller that may have been used with the 2920.  Was the 2920 the Q-bus board that connected to a crate controller via a hand-made multicolor twisted pair ribbon cable?  I think that went out a LONG time ago.  I did have recently at home a KSC crate controller that had an LSI-11 inside it, but I think that went to recycling about 2 years ago.  Sorry! Jon --===============6018738033231134955==-- From drb@msu.edu Wed Jul 13 22:00:54 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Retire cctech Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 18:00:49 -0400 Message-ID: <20220713220049.2A971412C43@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3742090596176024728==" --===============3742090596176024728== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I've belatedly realized that it's going to be a bit of a headache to implement the old cctalk/cctech crossposting duality under the new version of mailman. I seem to recall a discussion about retiring the cctech list and just continuing with cctalk, and that the consensus was in favor of that. I'll call this message a consent agenda indicating that I plan to do that, unless there's loud outcry. De --===============3742090596176024728==-- From healyzh@avanthar.com Wed Jul 13 22:21:43 2022 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:15:51 -0700 Message-ID: <0BA8EAF4-5DCD-47AA-9D59-6BDF3D34E05B@avanthar.com> In-Reply-To: <20220713220049.2A971412C43@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1189551144338412245==" --===============1189551144338412245== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 13, 2022, at 3:00 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFFolks, >=20 > I've belatedly realized that it's going to be a bit of a headache to > implement the old cctalk/cctech crossposting duality under the new > version of mailman. >=20 > I seem to recall a discussion about retiring the cctech list and just > continuing with cctalk, and that the consensus was in favor of that. >=20 > I'll call this message a consent agenda indicating that I plan to do > that, unless there's loud outcry. >=20 > De I=E2=80=99m fine with that. I never cared for the duality. Zane=20 --===============1189551144338412245==-- From doug@doughq.com Wed Jul 13 23:09:17 2022 From: Doug Jackson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:02:31 +1000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220713220049.2A971412C43@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4947883830545079663==" --===============4947883830545079663== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dennis, That makes complete sense - All of my cc* related emails get forwarded into a single folder here anyway. Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: doug(a)doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net ----------------------------------------------------------- Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for your own use. Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard. Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal liability. :-) Be nice to your parents. Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you happy. ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 at 08:01, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Folks, > > I've belatedly realized that it's going to be a bit of a headache to > implement the old cctalk/cctech crossposting duality under the new > version of mailman. > > I seem to recall a discussion about retiring the cctech list and just > continuing with cctalk, and that the consensus was in favor of that. > > I'll call this message a consent agenda indicating that I plan to do > that, unless there's loud outcry. > > De > --===============4947883830545079663==-- From dave.dunfield@gmail.com Thu Jul 14 00:18:01 2022 From: Dave Dunfield To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Floppy Cables & "twists" Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 00:17:57 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5004111353655170348==" --===============5004111353655170348== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After recently selling my ImageDisk system, and having a few spare older PC mainboards - I decided to make another - I did find a board that seems to have a decent FDC - it does all single density formats (many don't). Alas, it is "slightly newer enough" to only implement one floppy drive on it's interface - floppy B: does not appear at all to the system. Ripping the cable off the front panel drive to connect an external one is somewhat painful - Since the PC normally has a twisted cable to swap Select1&Motor1 with Select2&Motor2 to put each set on Select2&Motor2 of different connectors, I thought I could just use a flat cable and add a switch near the PC end to switch Select1&Motor1 to go to either Select1&Motor1 -OR- Select2/Motor2 on both connectors with the internal drive set to 1: and a cable coming out the back for drives jumpered as 2: That way I could just "flip a switch" to choose between internal drive 1: or the external drive(s) 2: (either would appear as A: depending on the switch). But when I try to access a drive jumpered as 1:, it does select, but the motor doesn't turn on. This happens even without my "special" cable. If I connect the drive (by itself) on the PC side of the twist on a standard cable, the motor doesn't work. The twist swaps Select1&Motor1 to Select2&Motor2 on the farthest connector, and since a standard drive is jumpered as 2: - This should put the 1: signals to 2: for a drive in that position - all other wires are "straight through". It looks as if some other signals is expected to behave differently when the drive is jumpered as 1: (I've tried this with a couple of different drives) - anyone know whats going on? Dave (I can use the message archive to check for responses every few days, so replying here is OK). --=20 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom! --===============5004111353655170348==-- From jrr@flippers.com Thu Jul 14 01:25:16 2022 From: John Robertson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 18:15:21 -0700 Message-ID: <983b381f-fa51-d45d-8bfd-f2830104db97@flippers.com> In-Reply-To: <20220713220049.2A971412C43@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1222327203336354975==" --===============1222327203336354975== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2022/07/13 3:00 p.m., Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Folks, > > I've belatedly realized that it's going to be a bit of a headache to > implement the old cctalk/cctech crossposting duality under the new > version of mailman. > > I seem to recall a discussion about retiring the cctech list and just > continuing with cctalk, and that the consensus was in favor of that. > > I'll call this message a consent agenda indicating that I plan to do > that, unless there's loud outcry. > > De Are the old posts all archived and searchable? I have a gap from 2016 through 2022, and before that it is complete back to Mar 29, 2007 (I think it is complete). Merging makes sense to me. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" --===============1222327203336354975==-- From drb@msu.edu Thu Jul 14 02:01:53 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 22:01:45 -0400 Message-ID: <20220714020145.D4C2B413675@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <983b381f-fa51-d45d-8bfd-f2830104db97@flippers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6100361399436207858==" --===============6100361399436207858== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are the old posts all archived and searchable? I have a gap from 2016 > through 2022, and before that it is complete back to Mar 29, 2007 (I > think it is complete). I think I have cctech back to 2005 for import into the new mailman web system. I also have the mailman2 pipermail archives that go back to 2014. I have cctalk archives back to the beginning in 1998? to load, and the pipermail back to 2014. The pipermail archives are online now. The stuff to load still requires some massaging to get it to load cleanly. Since it's somewhere north of 400,000 messages, and I'm not getting diagnostics about _why_ some messages aren't getting loaded, it's taking some time to finish the cleanup. De --===============6100361399436207858==-- From cclist@sydex.com Thu Jul 14 02:21:35 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Floppy Cables & "twists" Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:21:27 -0700 Message-ID: <2c48a417-48ea-396d-e388-47bb2d52c62c@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1536079694848623766==" --===============1536079694848623766== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/12/22 22:08, Dave Dunfield via cctalk wrote: > After recently selling my ImageDisk system, and having a few spare older PC= ... I ran into a similar situation with a newer-than-P3 single-drive motherboard. I'd switch from the internal 3.5" 1.44M drive to an external 5.25" 360K drive. It turns out that the onboard SuperIO chip didn't have enough drive current to handle a 5.25" drive with 150 ohm pullup terminators. Changed the 150 ohm packs out for 2Kohm and things worked fine. IIRC, this was a Socket 939 system. Handled FM very well. You could also construct a small buffer board using something like 7407s to provide a little more drive. FWIW, Chuck --===============1536079694848623766==-- From cclist@sydex.com Thu Jul 14 03:26:47 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Floppy Cables & "twists" Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:49:02 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2c48a417-48ea-396d-e388-47bb2d52c62c@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2666553904507273036==" --===============2666553904507273036== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll add that just switching the motor and select lines does mean that both the internal drive and the external drive must have termination on all the other (input) lines. That probably accounted for my "too low drive current" issue. You could switch all of the lines, but that may be easier said than done. --Chuck --===============2666553904507273036==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Thu Jul 14 04:02:34 2022 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:52:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3fe8a91e-b5e1-7188-ffa4-c9e8b34c898d@jwsss.com> In-Reply-To: <20220714020145.D4C2B413675@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8663440510863101734==" --===============8663440510863101734== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm good with the duality going away.  I see in a day longer ago that the split made sense and also was more useful. I don't think I've seen the cctech separate out much that can't be located and followed anyway. Appreciate all the efforts.  I'll look at my archives.  I think Jay had all I had the he did not.  I also have a very long archive composed of emails and not from scraping the archives off the web page, though I don't know that is much use. thanks Jim On 7/13/2022 7:01 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > Are the old posts all archived and searchable? I have a gap from 2016 > > through 2022, and before that it is complete back to Mar 29, 2007 (I > > think it is complete). > > I think I have cctech back to 2005 for import into the new mailman web > system. I also have the mailman2 pipermail archives that go back to > 2014. > > I have cctalk archives back to the beginning in 1998? to load, and the > pipermail back to 2014. > > The pipermail archives are online now. The stuff to load still requires > some massaging to get it to load cleanly. Since it's somewhere north of > 400,000 messages, and I'm not getting diagnostics about _why_ some > messages aren't getting loaded, it's taking some time to finish the > cleanup. > > De --===============8663440510863101734==-- From linimon@lonesome.com Thu Jul 14 08:46:19 2022 From: Mark Linimon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: tape drives, oscilloscopes, and test equiment in Austin, TX Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:37:19 +0000 Message-ID: <20220714083718.GA16654@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6914240122808985971==" --===============6914240122808985971== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Closing this Friday the 15th (sorry for noticing this late). At the University of Texas in downtown Austin. I have no association with the University, etc. https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110345 https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110400 https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110404 There are a few other items that may be of interest. Note that these are all fine examples of the type of things I need *less* of :-) (including, of course, a Tek 564 that I have been lugging around for a few decades. Does anyone want to give it a good home? Fair warning: it's *heavy*.) mcl --===============6914240122808985971==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Thu Jul 14 15:26:59 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: tape drives, oscilloscopes, and test equiment in Austin, TX Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:17:35 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220714083718.GA16654@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6565587237124396068==" --===============6565587237124396068== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/14/22 2:37 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote: > Closing this Friday the 15th (sorry for noticing this late). At the > University of Texas in downtown Austin. > > I have no association with the University, etc. > > https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110345 I'd pay the current bid of $11 for the tape drives if I was in person. But, sadly, I can't find, much less arrange for an agent in state to assist me with this in the remaining time. Nor do I want to pay 10 times the bid in shipping. > https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110400 > https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110404 > > There are a few other items that may be of interest. Ya... I'm not going to look at things I'll just end up wanting and not able to get. Better for my (mental) health. :-D > Note that these are all fine examples of the type of things I need > *less* of :-) ~chuckle~ Remember, one person's trash is another person's treasure. > (including, of course, a Tek 564 that I have been lugging around for > a few decades. Does anyone want to give it a good home? Fair warning: > it's *heavy*.) ~chuckle~ -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============6565587237124396068==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Thu Jul 14 22:16:32 2022 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: tape drives, oscilloscopes, and test equiment in Austin, TX Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:16:22 -0700 Message-ID: <733e63f2-77c6-31fb-7668-264d458f6ba6@jwsss.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7744667249521641145==" --===============7744667249521641145== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you scroll thru the other auctions, these aren't the only ones with interesting material.  There is a lot of other equipment and items. I scrolled and saw meters and power supplies for instance.  The sad thing that this shows is how poor a choice of an agent this operation is in attracting bidders for good equipment.  It will probably be bought up by metals or scrappers for the bids if they stand. thanks Jim On 7/14/2022 8:17 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 7/14/22 2:37 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote: >> Closing this Friday the 15th (sorry for noticing this late).  At the >> University of Texas in downtown Austin. >> >> I have no association with the University, etc. >> >>    https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110345 > > I'd pay the current bid of $11 for the tape drives if I was in person. > > But, sadly, I can't find, much less arrange for an agent in state to > assist me with this in the remaining time. > > Nor do I want to pay 10 times the bid in shipping. > >> https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110400 >>    https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/110404 >> >> There are a few other items that may be of interest. > > Ya...  I'm not going to look at things I'll just end up wanting and > not able to get.  Better for my (mental) health.  :-D > >> Note that these are all fine examples of the type of things I need >> *less* of :-) > > ~chuckle~ > > Remember, one person's trash is another person's treasure. > >> (including, of course, a Tek 564 that I have been lugging around for >> a few decades.  Does anyone want to give it a good home?  Fair warning: >> it's *heavy*.) > > ~chuckle~ > > > --===============7744667249521641145==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Fri Jul 15 02:09:25 2022 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Information on Trend UTR 700 Paper Tape Reader and Facit 4060 Punch Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 02:09:22 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4687281504930437696==" --===============4687281504930437696== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 7:32 AM Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > > Google turns up very little specific information on either of these devices= , e.g. nil return from bit savers. > > The best leads I have are: > - The UTR 700 was badge engineered by Ferranti into FM1600B systems, one of= which fetched up at the Centre for Computer History, Cambridge, England; per= haps with documentation. Also, as it was used in government systems some mai= ntenance documentation may have fetched up in the PRO, at Kew. Are you sure it's a UTR700 and not a UDR700? The latter is a 'UniDirectional Reader' running at 700 characters/second. I've seen them badge-engeered 'Solartron' too. I also have a Unibus interface for them. If it is a UDR700, I have the 'user' manual which includes full schematics, parts lists, alignment data, etc. I did offer this to bitsavers along with the manual for the HSR500 (bidirectional, 500 cps) but they weren't interested. Unfortunately the manual is nearly 140MBytes (my scanner software is very inefficient!) so too large to post or e-mail, but I can snail-mail a CD-ROM or memory stick with it on. -tony --===============4687281504930437696==-- From commodorejohn@gmail.com Fri Jul 15 02:39:23 2022 From: John Ames To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:51:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6746044136898715254==" --===============6746044136898715254== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm fine with that myself, but will list memberships from cctech be ported over, or will we have to re-register? I don't think I'm currently on cctalk. --===============6746044136898715254==-- From johnhreinhardt@thereinhardts.org Fri Jul 15 16:15:47 2022 From: "John H. Reinhardt" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:08:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1333f8bb-771b-9d1f-56e8-2094d0af5a5b@thereinhardts.org> In-Reply-To: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3303717560602786948==" --===============3303717560602786948== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/11/2022 12:38 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Friends, > > The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new > host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail > handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live > test. Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to > post to the list. One other positive note is that the migration seems to have cleared my old em= ail address from the list.=C2=A0 I had contacted Jay because the list manager= said the address didn't exist when I sent the command to stop and it also sa= id it did exist when I sent the command to add it.=C2=A0 Jay looked but could= n't resolve it either.=C2=A0 But I noticed the emails finally stopped coming = around July 10th. > The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. > > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! > > /Dennis Boone So thank you Dennis!=C2=A0 I'm sure it probably cleared out some others caugh= t in limbo as well. Many thanks to Jay as well for his service to the community. --=20 John H. Reinhardt --===============3303717560602786948==-- From rtomek@ceti.pl Fri Jul 15 21:57:29 2022 From: Tomasz Rola To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 23:49:58 +0200 Message-ID: <20220715214957.GA32555@tau1.ceti.pl> In-Reply-To: <20220711053836.B91B93FBF07@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4583760084039640973==" --===============4583760084039640973== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 01:38:36AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Friends, > > The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new > host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail [...] > > Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! > > /Dennis Boone Thank you, Jay West. Thank you, Dennis Boone. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola(a)bigfoot.com ** --===============4583760084039640973==-- From manna5@safe-mail.net Sat Jul 16 17:21:00 2022 From: manna5@safe-mail.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 20 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 13:00:51 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3571465599814683353==" --===============3571465599814683353== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem na = wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. --===============3571465599814683353==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 16 18:18:39 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 20 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 11:11:36 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7778135395768578022==" --===============7778135395768578022== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/16/22 10:00, Jan Mleczko via cctalk wrote: > Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem n= a wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. For those not conversant in Polish, he said he's on vacation/holiday and will answer later. FYI, Chuck --===============7778135395768578022==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Sat Jul 16 19:12:01 2022 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: foreign language away messages was Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 20 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 12:11:56 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9100746228059848458==" --===============9100746228059848458== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem = na wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. >=20 > For those not conversant in Polish, he said he's on vacation/holiday and > will answer later. See, this is why watching Borat is educational: I actually knew what the first word meant. And I also knew why wearing mankinis in Kazakhstan is normal and masculine. --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- Quoth the Web Server, "404!" ---------------------------------------------= -- --===============9100746228059848458==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sat Jul 16 19:30:50 2022 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 20 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 15:30:42 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4656022080529150818==" --===============4656022080529150818== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/16/22 14:11, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 7/16/22 10:00, Jan Mleczko via cctalk wrote: >> Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem = na wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. >=20 >=20 > For those not conversant in Polish, he said he's on vacation/holiday and > will answer later. >=20 > FYI, > Chuck Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99. :-) bill --===============4656022080529150818==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 16 21:36:23 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 20 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:36:12 -0700 Message-ID: <26793fe6-1806-804b-6a69-d0044b1b2c58@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB558070B7EEC642C671A47BD1ED8A9=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1800961304071689630==" --===============1800961304071689630== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/16/22 12:30, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> For those not conversant in Polish, he said he's on vacation/holiday and >> will answer later. >> >> FYI, >> Chuck > > Dziękuję. > Nėr už ką --Chuck --===============1800961304071689630==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sat Jul 16 23:45:50 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 23:45:46 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3fe8a91e-b5e1-7188-ffa4-c9e8b34c898d@jwsss.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7543872335812896924==" --===============7543872335812896924== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will posts to cctech alias to cctalk if I forget? Bill On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 12:02 AM jim stephens via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I'm good with the duality going away. I see in a day longer ago that > the split made sense and also was more useful. > > I don't think I've seen the cctech separate out much that can't be > located and followed anyway. > > Appreciate all the efforts. I'll look at my archives. I think Jay had > all I had the he did not. I also have a very long archive composed of > emails and not from scraping the archives off the web page, though I > don't know that is much use. > > thanks > Jim > > On 7/13/2022 7:01 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > > Are the old posts all archived and searchable? I have a gap from 2016 > > > through 2022, and before that it is complete back to Mar 29, 2007 (I > > > think it is complete). > > > > I think I have cctech back to 2005 for import into the new mailman web > > system. I also have the mailman2 pipermail archives that go back to > > 2014. > > > > I have cctalk archives back to the beginning in 1998? to load, and the > > pipermail back to 2014. > > > > The pipermail archives are online now. The stuff to load still requires > > some massaging to get it to load cleanly. Since it's somewhere north of > > 400,000 messages, and I'm not getting diagnostics about _why_ some > > messages aren't getting loaded, it's taking some time to finish the > > cleanup. > > > > De > > --===============7543872335812896924==-- From manna5@safe-mail.net Sat Jul 16 23:46:34 2022 From: manna5@safe-mail.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 21 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:46:29 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4103684870685825454==" --===============4103684870685825454== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem na = wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. --===============4103684870685825454==-- From vincent.slyngstad@gmail.com Sun Jul 17 01:55:47 2022 From: Vincent Slyngstad To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 12:26:38 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220715214957.GA32555@tau1.ceti.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3979821050747275407==" --===============3979821050747275407== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently used "Reply" instead of "Reply List" to attempt a private reply. That attempted to send to the list anyway, but I didn't notice. That lead to three days of "delivery delayed", and finally to "Delivery Status Notification (Failure)", with this reason given: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [209.85.160.47] blocked using dnsbl.sorbs.net; Currently Sending Spam See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?209.85.160.47 So, here's me now, testing whether I can reply to the list at all. Vince --===============3979821050747275407==-- From healyzh@me.com Sun Jul 17 07:25:50 2022 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:05:56 -0700 Message-ID: <4F65177D-DD8C-4D43-9425-127E408DD23A@me.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8977518099700955502==" --===============8977518099700955502== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 16, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: >=20 > I recently used "Reply" instead of "Reply List" to attempt a private reply.= That attempted to send to the list anyway, but I didn't notice. >=20 > That lead to three days of "delivery delayed", and finally to "Delivery Sta= tus Notification (Failure)", with this reason given: >=20 > 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [209.85.160.47] blocked using dn= sbl.sorbs.net; Currently Sending Spam See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?= 209.85.160.47 >=20 > So, here's me now, testing whether I can reply to the list at all. >=20 > Vince I can see your reply. Really though this is to test my reply. :-) Zane --===============8977518099700955502==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Jul 17 14:39:21 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:09:18 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4F65177D-DD8C-4D43-9425-127E408DD23A@me.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6693975315651219611==" --===============6693975315651219611== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable test reply (I got a few messages from gmail too) bill degnan On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 3:26 AM Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > On Jul 16, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > I recently used "Reply" instead of "Reply List" to attempt a private > reply. That attempted to send to the list anyway, but I didn't notice. > > > > That lead to three days of "delivery delayed", and finally to "Delivery > Status Notification (Failure)", with this reason given: > > > > 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [209.85.160.47] blocked using > dnsbl.sorbs.net; Currently Sending Spam See: > http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?209.85.160.47 > > > > So, here's me now, testing whether I can reply to the list at all. > > > > Vince > > I can see your reply. Really though this is to test my reply. :-) > > Zane > > --===============6693975315651219611==-- From manna5@safe-mail.net Sun Jul 17 17:00:46 2022 From: manna5@safe-mail.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 22 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 13:00:41 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7567703081782284433==" --===============7567703081782284433== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem na = wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. --===============7567703081782284433==-- From healyzh@me.com Sun Jul 17 20:14:15 2022 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 08:51:18 -0700 Message-ID: <9F57C8D7-7ECB-4B90-9FE2-C9879AD8F723@me.com> In-Reply-To: <4F65177D-DD8C-4D43-9425-127E408DD23A@me.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9076828027377102956==" --===============9076828027377102956== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 16, 2022, at 7:05 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk = wrote: > I can see your reply. Really though this is to test my reply. :-) >=20 > Zane It=E2=80=99s worth noting that I sent this out at 7:05pm last night, I receiv= ed it from the list at 12:25am. I=E2=80=99m not sure if that=E2=80=99s a sig= n of a problem or not. Zane --===============9076828027377102956==-- From drb@msu.edu Sun Jul 17 20:25:04 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Retire cctech Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <20220717202459.DF09341C4F9@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20220713220049.2A971412C43@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0914865812020188387==" --===============0914865812020188387== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I've migrated all of the cctech subscribers to cctalk, and removed the cctech list. I've tried to arrange that mail sent to cctech gets forwarded to cctalk, but that may require a bit of tuning. I do still have the various posting archives which will make an appearance in the (hopefully) near future. In the process of retiring cctech, I preserved digest vs individual message subscription settings, but may have inadvertently altered the _form_ of digest you receive. If you want to change this, or any other, subscription setting, you should be able to visit: https://classiccmp.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/cctalk.classiccmp.org/ and log in to fiddle with your settings. Old list passwords did not port over, so on the first visit you'll probably have to use the "sign up" link top right to create a username and password to use to get at your subscriptions. De --===============0914865812020188387==-- From barythrin@gmail.com Sun Jul 17 22:04:01 2022 From: John Herron To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List migration Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 22:03:56 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3565714297576535756==" --===============3565714297576535756== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I see your reply On Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 8:56 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > So, here's me now, testing whether I can reply to the list at all. > > Vince > --===============3565714297576535756==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Sun Jul 17 23:40:05 2022 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Heath h-100 h-200 computer added to SMECC with discs books etc anyone else running one like this? Ours is version with built in keyboard builtin dual floppies 8085 plus 8888 and monitor is separate unit sitting on top...Ed# P.S. We =?utf-8?q?never=C2=A0?= got the H89 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 23:39:57 +0000 Message-ID: <156535385.1481135.1658101197598@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <156535385.1481135.1658101197598.ref@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0344204521552844605==" --===============0344204521552844605== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heath h-100 h-200 computer added to SMECC with discs books etc anyone else ru= nning one like this? Ours is version with built in keyboard builtin dual flop= pies 8085 plus 8888 and monitor is separate unit sitting on top...Ed# =C2=A0P= .S. We never=C2=A0 got the H89=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 headed=C2=A0 our wa= y.... some=C2=A0 =C2=A0guy=C2=A0 absconded=C2=A0 with it=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 guess.= .. alas....=C2=A0 so=C2=A0 once=C2=A0 we=C2=A0 get that think=C2=A0 we have= =C2=A0 THE SET=C2=A0 except=C2=A0 for the analog computers that Heath Produce= d ( still looking??? Help???) --===============0344204521552844605==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Mon Jul 18 00:32:54 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 19:32:47 -0500 Message-ID: <448ec9e0-a5df-7dd2-65f4-6294e6ebec82@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1650045504291954907==" --===============1650045504291954907== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, auction is over, I didn't bid on it, and I hope someone here got it. That said, the more I look at it, and the more I look at a true MVII=20 card the more I wonder just what was missing on this card. A true MVII=20 has a pair of rather large custom ASICs in the center of the board and I=20 can't believe the 80186 (or whatever that chip is on the top center of=20 the board) could emulate it all. So it would be interesting to see what this thing was and what it did. C On 7/12/2022 12:58 PM, Bjoren Davis via cctalk wrote: > Hello Classic fans, >=20 > Recently eBay seller smhelectronics261 posted a very interesting=20 > prototype board: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295087630609 >=20 > The description is "Dec Digital PRO 350/380 Professional Microvax II=20 > Proto 54-16707 Collectors", and the board art mentions "MICROVAX SOFTCARD." >=20 > Does anyone know anything about this card?=C2=A0 Especially curious is the = > daughtercard connector: is it just for RAM expansion or is the=20 > daughtercard necessary for card operation? >=20 > The photographs are fuzzy, but the more recent chip date I can see is=20 > 8536 (on one of the QFPs).=C2=A0 This puts the board in the time period of = > the MicroVAX II development. >=20 > The internal "MicroVAX Business Plan"=20 > (http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/610/memos/Microvax_Business_Plan_Dec83.pd= f)=20 > mentions a "Meteor" project (p. 11).=C2=A0 It describes Meteor as: >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Meteor is Digital's first single-user MicroVAX product. Devel= oped > =C2=A0=C2=A0 within Low End Engineering, the product is positioned as a st= rong > =C2=A0=C2=A0 competitor in the low end, technical/scientific and the high = end > =C2=A0=C2=A0 office/business graphics workstation market. Meteor should be= an > =C2=A0=C2=A0 effective follow-on product to the Professional Series and hi= gh end > =C2=A0=C2=A0 VAX/Seahorse workstations. Although not a replacement product= per > =C2=A0=C2=A0 se, Meteor represents a clear migration path for PRO users up= ward in > =C2=A0=C2=A0 functionality, and for VAX Workstation applications downward = to a > =C2=A0=C2=A0 lower cost, single user design. >=20 > Does anyone know if this board is Meteor? >=20 > I'll be bidding on the board, but given how pricey CTI boards have=20 > gotten recently (a DECNA card from the same seller recently sold for=20 > $422.99), I probably won't win.=C2=A0 If the winner of the auction reads=20 > this, could they please contact me?=C2=A0 I'd like to collect an image of t= he=20 > boot ROM from the board, if possible. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > --Bjoren --===============1650045504291954907==-- From wh.sudbrink@verizon.net Mon Jul 18 14:57:28 2022 From: William Sudbrink To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk]Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:56:21 -0400 Message-ID: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$.ref@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6709930593975677845==" --===============6709930593975677845== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon cables? https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=item36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz550 Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) reproduce them. I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do a set for the "bargain" price of $250. Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --===============6709930593975677845==-- From manna5@safe-mail.net Mon Jul 18 14:58:35 2022 From: manna5@safe-mail.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk]Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 23 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:58:28 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6222463539302062652==" --===============6222463539302062652== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem na = wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. --===============6222463539302062652==-- From cclist@sydex.com Mon Jul 18 15:20:39 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk]Re: Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:20:29 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3395935612804034275==" --===============3395935612804034275== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/18/22 07:56, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do > a set for the > > "bargain" price of $250. I'll do you one better--I'll do them with Twist 'n' Flat cable for $200. I guess it's the "authentic" thing, although I don't remember any ribbon cable shipping with my Rev 0 Altair. --Chuck --===============3395935612804034275==-- From wh.sudbrink@verizon.net Mon Jul 18 15:32:55 2022 From: William Sudbrink To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: [cctalk]Re: Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:31:45 -0400 Message-ID: <08f301d89abb$7da02a00$78e07e00$@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7779226924098461316==" --===============7779226924098461316== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can do Twist'n'Flat too, but I'd have to upcharge to 275. Seriously, I'm p= retty sure the 26 edge to DB-25 females go with the IMSAI SIO that the same seller is offering in an= other lot. The 50 edge to DB-25 pair cables go with the IMSAI PIO that the same seller is also = offering. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 11:20 AM To: William Sudbrink via cctalk Cc: Chuck Guzis Subject: [cctalk]Re: Can someone explain... On 7/18/22 07:56, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. =20 > I'll do a set for the >=20 > "bargain" price of $250. I'll do you one better--I'll do them with Twist 'n' Flat cable for $200. I guess it's the "authentic" thing, although I don't remember any ribbon cabl= e shipping with my Rev 0 Altair. --Chuck --=20 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --===============7779226924098461316==-- From cclist@sydex.com Mon Jul 18 16:21:57 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: [cctalk]Re: Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:12:06 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <08f301d89abb$7da02a00$78e07e00$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6345278866124562088==" --===============6345278866124562088== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/18/22 08:31, William Sudbrink wrote: > I can do Twist'n'Flat too, but I'd have to upcharge to 275. Seriously, I'm= pretty sure the 26 edge > to DB-25 females go with the IMSAI SIO that the same seller is offering in = another lot. The 50 > edge to DB-25 pair cables go with the IMSAI PIO that the same seller is als= o offering. One of these days, I'll have to check to see what was shipped with my SIO0 board. Like a lot of folks on the list, however. I have a large tub of ribbon cables of various configurations. They're like paper clips--they multiply when you're not looking. Cheers, Chuck --===============6345278866124562088==-- From ccth6600@gmail.com Mon Jul 18 16:59:29 2022 From: Tom Hunter To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: [cctalk]Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 23:53:07 +0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2279452112995623841==" --===============2279452112995623841== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ebay madness. On Mon, 18 Jul 2022, 10:57 pm William Sudbrink via cctalk, < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon > cables? > > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=item36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz550 > > > > Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) > reproduce them. > > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do > a set for the > > "bargain" price of $250. > > > > Bill S. > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > --===============2279452112995623841==-- From manna5@safe-mail.net Mon Jul 18 17:00:58 2022 From: manna5@safe-mail.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:00:53 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6980792198398962726==" --===============6980792198398962726== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem na = wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. --===============6980792198398962726==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Mon Jul 18 17:02:23 2022 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:02:17 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0330953989912418286==" --===============0330953989912418286== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/18/22 13:00, Jan Mleczko via cctalk wrote: > Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem n= a wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. Are these vacation messages becoming a problem? We never saw then before. bill --===============0330953989912418286==-- From bob@theadamsons.co.uk Mon Jul 18 17:06:59 2022 From: Robert Adamson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Mime Attachments in Digest Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 17:59:21 +0100 Message-ID: <5574AA0A-D68F-4B02-8857-9D18315B802C@theadamsons.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7236936850943311326==" --===============7236936850943311326== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don=E2=80=99t know what=E2=80=99s changed but I=E2=80=99m receiving the cct= ech digests as a collection of mime attachments now. I=E2=80=99m using an iPa= d and used to just get a lengthy plain email. The mime attachments are a real= PITA to try to read! Can anything be done? Thanks, Bob --===============7236936850943311326==-- From lee.gleason@comcast.net Mon Jul 18 17:11:22 2022 From: Lee Gleason To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:03:09 -0500 Message-ID: <41f1a3b4-3c69-b339-373e-a53c0f66a9ee@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <78aa6240-6376-aa91-54bd-7f2ea2ee5ae8@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4187480873312217287==" --===============4187480873312217287== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 19:32:47 -0500 > From: Chris Zach > Subject: Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <448ec9e0-a5df-7dd2-65f4-6294e6ebec82(a)alembic.crystel.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Well, auction is over, I didn't bid on it, and I hope someone here got it. > > That said, the more I look at it, and the more I look at a true MVII > card the more I wonder just what was missing on this card. A true MVII > has a pair of rather large custom ASICs in the center of the board and I > can't believe the 80186 (or whatever that chip is on the top center of > the board) could emulate it all. > > So it would be interesting to see what this thing was and what it did. > >   I bought it. I know it's long odds that I can get it to do anything, especially without that daughter card, but, waddahell, it's an interesting DEC PRO collectible. I reckon I'll plug it into a PRO and see if it responds to attempted accesses. If the ROM contains PDP11 or VAX code, I'll disassemble it and see if there are any clues there. -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason(a)comcast.net --===============4187480873312217287==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Mon Jul 18 17:12:57 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Mime Attachments in Digest Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:12:51 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5574AA0A-D68F-4B02-8857-9D18315B802C@theadamsons.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2696152174793501218==" --===============2696152174793501218== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/18/22 10:59 AM, Robert Adamson via cctalk wrote: > I don’t know what’s changed but I’m receiving the cctech digests > as a collection of mime attachments now. I’m using an iPad and used > to just get a lengthy plain email. The mime attachments are a real > PITA to try to read! My preference is to have the MIME attachment(s) /when/ using a digest. However I rarely use the digest and prefer individual messages. > Can anything be done? Mailman has long had a setting to allow you to specify which type of digest you want. I wonder if your setting got reset. Or were you by chance subscribed to cctech and recently migrated to cctalk with the discontinuance of cctech? Your digest setting may have not come across. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============2696152174793501218==-- From drb@msu.edu Mon Jul 18 17:30:39 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Vacation messages (was Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:30:35 -0400 Message-ID: <20220718173035.3474A41E6BA@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55801DA4748345418A579988ED8C9=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5084555254664841176==" --===============5084555254664841176== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are these vacation messages becoming a problem? We never saw then > before. Maybe. Has the blasted thing replied to the list more than once now? De --===============5084555254664841176==-- From cclist@sydex.com Mon Jul 18 17:39:27 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Vacation messages (was Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:39:14 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220718173035.3474A41E6BA@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4325020584960487119==" --===============4325020584960487119== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/18/22 10:30, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > Are these vacation messages becoming a problem? We never saw then > > before. > > Maybe. Has the blasted thing replied to the list more than once now? > Three or four times by my count. --Chuck --===============4325020584960487119==-- From manna5@safe-mail.net Mon Jul 18 17:40:20 2022 From: manna5@safe-mail.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 25 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:40:15 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0945226253293270764==" --===============0945226253293270764== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dzi=C4=99kuj=C4=99 za twoj=C4=85 wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87. Przepraszam, jestem na = wczasach i odpowiem p=C3=B3=C5=BAniej. --===============0945226253293270764==-- From healyzh@me.com Mon Jul 18 17:41:44 2022 From: Zane Healy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Vacation messages (was Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:39:22 -0700 Message-ID: <30E000F3-BBE7-4886-BB66-003BE37E819E@me.com> In-Reply-To: <20220718173035.3474A41E6BA@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4889070524036492840==" --===============4889070524036492840== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 18, 2022, at 10:30 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: >=20 >> Are these vacation messages becoming a problem? We never saw then >> before. >=20 > Maybe. Has the blasted thing replied to the list more than once now? >=20 > De Definitely, I think it=E2=80=99s a problem with this persons =E2=80=9CVacatio= n=E2=80=9D message. Not sure what they=E2=80=99re using, but it appears to r= eply to *every* email, instead of just the first. Zane --===============4889070524036492840==-- From cclist@sydex.com Mon Jul 18 18:07:05 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: [cctalk]Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:06:50 -0700 Message-ID: <36baf8ae-38f9-a794-d672-fd5cfd863fe4@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3644554257414387805==" --===============3644554257414387805== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/18/22 07:56, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon > cables? >=20 > =20 >=20 > https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=3Ditem36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz= 550 >=20 > =20 >=20 My wetware is still functioning. My SIOA card doesn't use IDC ribbon cable per se. A 10-pin Moles header is used on board. See PDF page 47 here: https://usermanual.wiki/Document/MITSAltair88sioSerialIOCardManual.407144693/= view --Chuck --===============3644554257414387805==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Mon Jul 18 18:30:07 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:29:59 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2673802193019060118==" --===============2673802193019060118== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/18/22 11:00 AM, Jan Mleczko via cctalk wrote: > Dziękuję za twoją wiadomość. Przepraszam, jestem na wczasach i > odpowiem później. I've seen at least five of these messages in the last few days. I sent an email to cctalk-request@ and admins(a)safe-mail.net asking if there is anything that they can do to help with the vacation auto-responder. I asked the list administrator(s) to temporarily moderate Jan Mleczko (manna5(a)safe...). Here's hoping that the unnecessary / unrelated noise will clear up. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============2673802193019060118==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Jul 18 19:07:47 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: [cctalk]Can someone explain... Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:10:43 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4608938230552254199==" --===============4608938230552254199== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agreed, wow. On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 10:57 AM William Sudbrink via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon > cables? > > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=item36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz550 > > > > Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) > reproduce them. > > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do > a set for the > > "bargain" price of $250. > > > > Bill S. > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > --===============4608938230552254199==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Mon Jul 18 19:47:43 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:47:37 -0500 Message-ID: <91734b97-0945-587d-ddc9-1a8f50cbd7a3@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: <41f1a3b4-3c69-b339-373e-a53c0f66a9ee@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7285424465326573509==" --===============7285424465326573509== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >   I bought it. I know it's long odds that I can get it to do anything, > especially without that daughter card, but, waddahell, it's an > interesting DEC PRO collectible. I reckon I'll plug it into a PRO and > see if it responds to attempted accesses. If the ROM contains PDP11 or > VAX code, I'll disassemble it and see if there are any clues there. Good. If you can check that square chip top center and let us know if it's a 80186 or something. It would be interesting to see if the ROM is Microvax code, CTI code, or that other chip's code. C --===============7285424465326573509==-- From cruff@ruffspot.net Mon Jul 18 20:13:52 2022 From: Craig Ruff To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] double cctalk membership Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:40:24 -0600 Message-ID: <499E2BE7-8D15-441E-9BBE-3FC406183522@ruffspot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6944972508205879072==" --===============6944972508205879072== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I followed the suggestion in a previous message to logon to the new server an= d set my desired list settings. Now I show up with two subscriptions for my e= mail address, one as "nonmember" and the new one as "member". It does not app= ear that I am receiving doubles delivery of messages, so I'm not sure if this= is an issue or not. --===============6944972508205879072==-- From drb@msu.edu Mon Jul 18 20:23:31 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: double cctalk membership Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:23:27 -0400 Message-ID: <20220718202327.5E1C941EE5A@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <499E2BE7-8D15-441E-9BBE-3FC406183522@ruffspot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5345682272156175410==" --===============5345682272156175410== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I followed the suggestion in a previous message to logon to the new > server and set my desired list settings. Now I show up with two > subscriptions for my email address, one as "nonmember" and the new > one as "member". It does not appear that I am receiving doubles > delivery of messages, so I'm not sure if this is an issue or not. Mailman has an interesting (half snark) object model for lists, people, and subscriptions. A "nonmember" is, if I understand it correctly, an email address it's seen before that wasn't subscribed at the time, and which doesn't get list postings sent to it. If both existing proves to cause issues, I'll see about excising one. De --===============5345682272156175410==-- From couryhouse@aol.com Tue Jul 19 00:24:08 2022 From: ED SHARPE To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Heath h-100 h-200 computer added to SMECC with discs books etc anyone else running one like this? Ours is version with built in keyboard builtin dual floppies 8085 plus 8888 and monitor is separate unit sitting on top...Ed# P.S. We never got the H89 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 00:23:57 +0000 Message-ID: <1533307308.1774295.1658190237745@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3540512662224139386==" --===============3540512662224139386== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow great!=C2=A0 Location??? Sent from the all new AOL app for Android=20 =20 On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 11:21 AM, Robert Ollerton wr= ote: I've got a H89 I could cut loose On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 4:40 PM ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: Heath h-100 h-200 computer added to SMECC with discs books etc anyone else ru= nning one like this? Ours is version with built in keyboard builtin dual flop= pies 8085 plus 8888 and monitor is separate unit sitting on top...Ed# =C2=A0P= .S. We never=C2=A0 got the H89=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 headed=C2=A0 our wa= y.... some=C2=A0 =C2=A0guy=C2=A0 absconded=C2=A0 with it=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 guess.= .. alas....=C2=A0 so=C2=A0 once=C2=A0 we=C2=A0 get that think=C2=A0 we have= =C2=A0 THE SET=C2=A0 except=C2=A0 for the analog computers that Heath Produce= d ( still looking??? Help???) =20 --===============3540512662224139386==-- From spam@hell.org Wed Jul 20 00:03:32 2022 From: Mike Begley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: [cctalk]Can someone explain... Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 00:03:22 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <08ee01d89ab6$8ba52150$a2ef63f0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5239081899730692165==" --===============5239081899730692165== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, but yours wouldn't come with the oily grime of authenticity. Some people have too much ebay, and too little common sense. -mike -----Original Message----- From: William Sudbrink via cctalk =20 Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 7:56 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: William Sudbrink Subject: [cctalk]Can someone explain... Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon c= ables? =20 https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=3Ditem36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz550 =20 Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) repr= oduce them. I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do a= set for the "bargain" price of $250. =20 Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --===============5239081899730692165==-- From spam@hell.org Wed Jul 20 01:01:07 2022 From: Mike Begley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Seeking Atari ANALOG magazine issue #3 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 01:01:00 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CMW2PR18MB2219627CB01F958245D30B4FAC8E9=40MW2PR18MB?= =?utf-8?q?2219=2Enamprd18=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8760443220886234019==" --===============8760443220886234019== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I spent much of the pandemic focusing on filling out my 8-bit Atari documenta= tion & ephemera collection, and have come pretty close to a milestone. I am = only missing one issue of ANALOG magazine. Number 3 still eludes me. I've b= een on AtariAge and ebay and all the usual places. I know I can get the PDFs= online but I like having the originals. Do you have a copy of this issue you would be willing to sell or otherwise pa= ss on? Thanks! -mike spam(a)hell.org --===============8760443220886234019==-- From wh.sudbrink@verizon.net Thu Jul 21 19:38:49 2022 From: William Sudbrink To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 15:37:23 -0400 Message-ID: <009c01d89d39$4d7af4b0$e870de10$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3987143728133128246==" --===============3987143728133128246== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now 455 ?!?!?!?! From: William Sudbrink [mailto:wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:56 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts (cctalk(a)classiccmp.org) Subject: Can someone explain... Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon cables? https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=item36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz550 Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) reproduce them. I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do a set for the "bargain" price of $250. Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --===============3987143728133128246==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Thu Jul 21 20:22:17 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 15:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <009c01d89d39$4d7af4b0$e870de10$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7426273619165152550==" --===============7426273619165152550== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am selling the wrong things..... CZ On 7/21/2022 2:37 PM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Now 455 ?!?!?!?! >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: William Sudbrink [mailto:wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net] > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:56 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts (cctalk(a)classiccmp.o= rg) > > Subject: Can someone explain... >=20 > =20 >=20 > Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon > cables? >=20 > =20 >=20 > https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=3Ditem36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz= 550 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) > reproduce them. >=20 > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do > a set for the >=20 > "bargain" price of $250. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bill S. >=20 >=20 >=20 --===============7426273619165152550==-- From kelly@catcorner.org Thu Jul 21 20:28:14 2022 From: Kelly Leavitt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:28:07 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8790365800294993898==" --===============8790365800294993898== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I could be selling a mint working Apple I and I wouldn't get bids like this. ________________________________ From: Chris Zach via cctalk Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:22 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Chris Zach Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... I am selling the wrong things..... CZ On 7/21/2022 2:37 PM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Now 455 ?!?!?!?! > > > > From: William Sudbrink [mailto:wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net] > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:56 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts (cctalk(a)classiccmp.o= rg) > > Subject: Can someone explain... > > > > Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of ribbon > cables? > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=3Ditem36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQdiz= 550 > > > > Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and exactly) > reproduce them. > > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. I'll do > a set for the > > "bargain" price of $250. > > > > Bill S. > > > --===============8790365800294993898==-- From wh.sudbrink@verizon.net Thu Jul 21 20:52:42 2022 From: William Sudbrink To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 16:51:18 -0400 Message-ID: <00a501d89d43$a1010d40$e30327c0$@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CMN2PR16MB3598AF02777AD3093B8860A5A8919=40MN2PR16MB?= =?utf-8?q?3598=2Enamprd16=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2355662709140604874==" --===============2355662709140604874== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have verified that those cables go to the IMSAI SIO and PIO boards. They aren't even Altair! -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Leavitt via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org] Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:28 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Kelly Leavitt Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... I could be selling a mint working Apple I and I wouldn't get bids like this. ________________________________ From: Chris Zach via cctalk Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:22 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Chris Zach Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... I am selling the wrong things..... CZ On 7/21/2022 2:37 PM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Now 455 ?!?!?!?! > > > > From: William Sudbrink [mailto:wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net] > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:56 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > (cctalk(a)classiccmp.org) > Subject: Can someone explain... > > > > Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of > ribbon cables? > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=item36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQ > diz550 > > > > Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and > exactly) reproduce them. > > I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. > I'll do a set for the > > "bargain" price of $250. > > > > Bill S. > > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --===============2355662709140604874==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Thu Jul 21 21:24:45 2022 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 21:24:41 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00a501d89d43$a1010d40$e30327c0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3497472257078891502==" --===============3497472257078891502== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Money laundering? Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2022, at 13:52, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI have verified that those cables go to the IMSAI SIO and PIO boar= ds. They > aren't even Altair! >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Kelly Leavitt via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:28 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Cc: Kelly Leavitt > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... >=20 > I could be selling a mint working Apple I and I wouldn't get bids like this. >=20 > ________________________________ > From: Chris Zach via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:22 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Cc: Chris Zach > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... >=20 > I am selling the wrong things..... >=20 > CZ >=20 >> On 7/21/2022 2:37 PM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: >> Now 455 ?!?!?!?! >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: William Sudbrink [mailto:wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net] >> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:56 AM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts=20 >> (cctalk(a)classiccmp.org) >> Subject: Can someone explain... >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of=20 >> ribbon cables? >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=3Ditem36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQ >> diz550 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and=20 >> exactly) reproduce them. >>=20 >> I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer. =20 >> I'll do a set for the >>=20 >> "bargain" price of $250. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Bill S. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus >=20 --===============3497472257078891502==-- From cclist@sydex.com Thu Jul 21 21:25:09 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:24:57 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00a501d89d43$a1010d40$e30327c0$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4231314509471242978==" --===============4231314509471242978== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 13:51, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > I have verified that those cables go to the IMSAI SIO and PIO boards. They > aren't even Altair! That's what I thought. MITS SIO cards used the Molex headers. Supplied with two strands of 10-conductor cable. Crimp and solder. --Chuck --===============4231314509471242978==-- From drb@msu.edu Thu Jul 21 21:56:57 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 17:56:51 -0400 Message-ID: <20220721215652.0A35B3FC1DF@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3322539265064533299==" --===============3322539265064533299== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a tool that can convert from one or more vector image formats to ReGIS? For use on unix-ish platforms. De --===============3322539265064533299==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Thu Jul 21 22:14:33 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 15:05:09 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CMN2PR16MB3598AF02777AD3093B8860A5A8919=40MN2PR16MB?= =?utf-8?q?3598=2Enamprd16=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7186599945932476174==" --===============7186599945932476174== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 21 Jul 2022, Kelly Leavitt via cctalk wrote: > I could be selling a mint working Apple I and I wouldn't get bids like this. Well, if it is truly mint, it should bring up to $666.66 --===============7186599945932476174==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Thu Jul 21 22:36:51 2022 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain... Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 18:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4278948780269332444==" --===============4278948780269332444== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 16:22, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > I am selling the wrong things..... > Must be. Many moons back I tried to sell SparStations (when they were still being used commercially!!) and couldn't even get a $10 offer for them. Ended out giving them away. bill --===============4278948780269332444==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Thu Jul 21 23:53:58 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 17:53:51 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220721215652.0A35B3FC1DF@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6421512676174858571==" --===============6421512676174858571== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 3:56 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone know of a tool that can convert from one or more vector > image formats to ReGIS? For use on unix-ish platforms. I'm conflating my Sixel work with my ReGIS work. I know that there are a number of utilities to work with Sixel, but it seems like there are fewer that work with ReGIS. You might do some sleuthing to see if any vector programs will do what you want. Aside: I think that GNU Plot can be made to output ReGIS. So maybe you can abuse it / press it into service. I'm also curious what you're wanting to do. I run into few people that work with ReGIS and am always curious what others are doing with ReGIS (and Sixel). -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============6421512676174858571==-- From drb@msu.edu Fri Jul 22 00:30:08 2022 From: Dennis Boone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:30:04 -0400 Message-ID: <20220722003004.1154B3FC5EE@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4215864989559744665==" --===============4215864989559744665== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm conflating my Sixel work with my ReGIS work. I know that there > are a number of utilities to work with Sixel, but it seems like there > are fewer that work with ReGIS. Indeed. I've fiddled with Sixel in xterm, for example. It turns out ReGIS is hard to google, partly of course because it predates the internet by too much, but more because of the Philbin. > You might do some sleuthing to see if any vector programs will do > what you want. I've looked at some of the common tools, but so far no joy. > Aside: I think that GNU Plot can be made to output ReGIS. So maybe > you can abuse it / press it into service. Yes, I think you're right. I may end up doing some examples with it. > I'm also curious what you're wanting to do. I run into few people > that work with ReGIS and am always curious what others are doing with > ReGIS (and Sixel). I'm basically working on a GIGI demo, and would like to be able to take existing vector files and convert them to ReGIS. De --===============4215864989559744665==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Jul 22 00:39:17 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 18:03:51 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4183411527198113669==" --===============4183411527198113669== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 5:53 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > You might do some sleuthing to see if any vector programs will do what > you want. My Gentoo system w/ ReGIS and Sixel USE flags has the following things installed that include ReGIS (case insensitive / whole word) in the man page. % bzegrep -li "\" /usr/share/man/**/*(.) /usr/share/man/man1/plot.1.bz2 /usr/share/man/man1/plotfont.1.bz2 /usr/share/man/man1/tek2plot.1.bz2 /usr/share/man/man1/xterm.1.bz2 -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============4183411527198113669==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Jul 22 01:59:17 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:30:48 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220722003004.1154B3FC5EE@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1919228088364801435==" --===============1919228088364801435== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 6:30 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Indeed. I've fiddled with Sixel in xterm, for example. I've got both Sixel and ReGIS support in my Xterm. Not that I'm actually doing anything with it at this time. Grand plans are still waiting for sufficient Round Tuits. > It turns out ReGIS is hard to google, partly of course because it > predates the internet by too much, but more because of the Philbin. Ya. I had trouble greping man pages too because "ReGIS" is a match for "registered" (case insensitive) which appears a LOT of places. I had to use the "\<...\>" word boundaries to differentiate between them. > I've looked at some of the common tools, but so far no joy. Please share if (when) you find something. > Yes, I think you're right. I may end up doing some examples with it. I'd be curious to see what you end up doing. If you can share. ;-) > I'm basically working on a GIGI demo, and would like to be able to > take existing vector files and convert them to ReGIS. I'm not familiar with "GIGI" and my attempts to search for it (and vector) are having collisions with a brand that I've never heard of. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============1919228088364801435==-- From kiwi_jonathan@yahoo.com Fri Jul 22 02:02:32 2022 From: Jonathan Stone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 02:02:24 +0000 Message-ID: <992292565.682256.1658455344291@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0291780068949888005==" --===============0291780068949888005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Digital Equipment Corp. VK100, aka GIGI. Try searching for "DEC GIGI" On = Thursday, July 21, 2022, 06:59:20 PM PDT, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: =20 =20 On 7/21/22 6:30 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Indeed.=C2=A0 I've fiddled with Sixel in xterm, for example. I've got both Sixel and ReGIS support in my Xterm.=C2=A0 Not that I'm=20 actually doing anything with it at this time.=C2=A0 Grand plans are still=20 waiting for sufficient Round Tuits. > It turns out ReGIS is hard to google, partly of course because it=20 > predates the internet by too much, but more because of the Philbin. Ya.=C2=A0 I had trouble greping man pages too because "ReGIS" is a match for = "registered" (case insensitive) which appears a LOT of places.=C2=A0 I had to= =20 use the "\<...\>" word boundaries to differentiate between them. > I've looked at some of the common tools, but so far no joy. Please share if (when) you find something. > Yes, I think you're right.=C2=A0 I may end up doing some examples with it. I'd be curious to see what you end up doing.=C2=A0 If you can share.=C2=A0 ;-) > I'm basically working on a GIGI demo, and would like to be able to=20 > take existing vector files and convert them to ReGIS. I'm not familiar with "GIGI" and my attempts to search for it (and=20 vector) are having collisions with a brand that I've never heard of. --=20 Grant. . . . unix || die =20 --===============0291780068949888005==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Jul 22 04:39:19 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 22:20:46 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220722003004.1154B3FC5EE@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5256402180763207401==" --===============5256402180763207401== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 6:30 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > I'm basically working on a GIGI demo, and would like to be able to > take existing vector files and convert them to ReGIS. Is there somewhere that I can read about your efforts? Do you have a blog, et al. that I can follow? I'm also curious how much of what you're testing would work in XTerm w/ ReGIS support. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============5256402180763207401==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Jul 22 04:39:20 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ReGIS converter Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 22:18:23 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <992292565.682256.1658455344291@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6743285413349619008==" --===============6743285413349619008== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/22 8:02 PM, Jonathan Stone via cctalk wrote: > Digital Equipment Corp. VK100, aka GIGI. Try searching for "DEC GIGI" Thank you for that information. It seems as if GIGI is an acronym for General Imaging Generator and Interpreter. The DEC VK100 seems to be something similar to a DEC VT340 with a bring your own monitor, plus built in BASIC. Interesting. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============6743285413349619008==-- From lee.gleason@comcast.net Fri Jul 22 15:49:44 2022 From: Lee Gleason To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: MicroVAX CTI (DEC Professional) card Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 10:49:33 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <91734b97-0945-587d-ddc9-1a8f50cbd7a3@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3343530693623249261==" --===============3343530693623249261== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit   OK, got the card. The middle sized chip on the upper edge turns out not to be an 80186 or any other processor. It's an Intel C8207 dual port dynamic ram controller.   The EPROM is an Intel D2764. It has "TEST ROM" written on it in pencil. It was a bit of a disappointment - first 256 bytes contain bytes 1 to FF, then  a 0, then 16 more 0's, then 4096 FF's, then 0's until the end of the EPROM.  No code to be found in there....looks like it was just something for the card to test reading.   Next I'll load it into a PRO 380 and see if it can be read/written. I'm not actually too optimistic it will do anything without the missing daughtercard. -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason(a)comcat.net --===============3343530693623249261==-- From robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com Sun Jul 24 08:32:30 2022 From: Rob Jarratt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Attaching Test Clip to F-11 Chips on PDP 11/24 M7133 CPU Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 09:02:56 +0100 Message-ID: <00e001d89f33$c8ddfed0$5a99fc70$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1798108447266624713==" --===============1798108447266624713== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to work out why my PDP 11/24 CPU is not working. To do so I want to use my logic analyser on the F-11 chips. I have a regular 40-pin test clip, but it doesn't make a good contact with the pins on the F-11 chips. The test clips I have are made for regular DIP chips where the legs come out horizontally from the side of the chip before turning 90 degrees and going down into the board. On the F-11 chips the pins are pretty much stuck to the side of the chip body and so the clip can't make a good contact. Does anyone have any tips for attaching a test clip to the F-11 chips? Thanks Rob --===============1798108447266624713==-- From philip@axeside.co.uk Sun Jul 24 12:11:26 2022 From: Philip Belben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] More Free stuff in Somerset, England Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 12:38:30 +0100 Message-ID: <7932d409-91b2-f10d-2927-012d396e5d92@axeside.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <57716fbf-cae7-a519-ac4e-20ad98039d03@axeside.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6341693687201427743==" --===============6341693687201427743== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello again. Before I begin, this is a re-send of a message I sent to cctech, which didn't get through. So, if there are still plans to keep the cctech address live, could someone look at this, please. Anyway, to get to the point: I have been doing some more digging, mainly in my basement. The following stuff is available for free to anyone who can come and collect it. DEC networking stuff: DECServer 300 Multiport repeater DEMPR-AB DECRepeater 200 DEC Microserver DEMSA-A Another piece of network kit: Retix 2265M 802.3 bridge A Compaq 2260 "Portable II" lunchbox PC A Penny & Giles 7000D double QIC drive. No idea what that conencts to. I'm starting on my (surprisingly large) collection of printers and related stuff. This may require some sorting when people collect - there is at least one box of printer parts containing things like paper guides, winding knobs, and even tractor feed attachments, which need putting with the correct machines! Anyway, the following have already surfaced, and there is more to come: TI Silent 700 terminal, model 743KSR Mannesmann Tally MT80+ (little 80-column impact dot matrix machine, quite nice packaging, slight chip on cover,) HP9195AB Scanjet Plus flatbed scanner Nicolet Zeta 8A pen plotter Finally, one piece of DEC kit I didn't mention last time is the Magtape drive. This is the sort that takes up the top 18U or thereabouts of a rack, but doesn't go very deep. I've been sorting through my Unibus cards (some of which are taken, but others may appear here), but I have no idea what cards would drive this tape machine. Can anyone help? The same disclaimers as last time apply: > Everything is offered as seen.  Most of it doesn't work.  You have been > warned. > > Finally, I have set up an e-mail address for you to reply to if you are > interested: declutter(a)axeside.co.uk.  I hope to spot replies to the list > too, but it will help if you copy them to that address as well. Thanks again, Philip. --===============6341693687201427743==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sun Jul 24 14:29:00 2022 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Attaching Test Clip to F-11 Chips on PDP 11/24 M7133 CPU Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 09:28:51 -0500 Message-ID: <182c0ab7-e675-62ce-10eb-abbe7bc834c4@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: <00e001d89f33$c8ddfed0$5a99fc70$@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3708999016048991062==" --===============3708999016048991062== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/24/22 03:02, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > I am trying to work out why my PDP 11/24 CPU is not working. To do so I want > to use my logic analyser on the F-11 chips. I have a regular 40-pin test > clip, but it doesn't make a good contact with the pins on the F-11 chips. > The test clips I have are made for regular DIP chips where the legs come out > horizontally from the side of the chip before turning 90 degrees and going > down into the board. On the F-11 chips the pins are pretty much stuck to the > side of the chip body and so the clip can't make a good contact. > > > > Does anyone have any tips for attaching a test clip to the F-11 chips? > The test clips often have a "barrier" between the pins.  These may prevent the clip from fully closing onto the chip body if the pins are flush, like a ceramic chip.  It may be necessary to carve away a bit of the barrier to make the clip close the contacts down onto the chip's pins.  The barrier is there to prevent the clip from sliding out of alignment with the pins, but it doesn't work on these ceramic packages. Jon --===============3708999016048991062==-- From chd@chdickman.com Sun Jul 24 18:39:52 2022 From: Charles Dickman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:13:20 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0430254547578699261==" --===============0430254547578699261== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My attempt at the colors from several years ago. http://www.chdickman.com/pdp8/DECcolors/ CHM = Color Harmony Manual --===============0430254547578699261==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jul 24 18:54:47 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to reproduce the DEC cabinets' grey colour paint? Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:49:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6587864926286021465==" --===============6587864926286021465== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 24, 2022, at 2:13 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: >=20 > My attempt at the colors from several years ago. >=20 > http://www.chdickman.com/pdp8/DECcolors/ >=20 > CHM =3D Color Harmony Manual It would be interesting to make them to Pantone colors, because RGB can't rep= roduce every pigment color. Of course, a separate question is whether a particular unit has faded, in whi= ch case matching the "official" color may not be what you'd want to do. paul --===============6587864926286021465==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Mon Jul 25 05:09:35 2022 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Agenda VR3 MIPS cross-gcc Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 22:09:28 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7237546745208753824==" --===============7237546745208753824== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There used to be a cross-compiling gcc for MIPS specifically for the VR4121 in the Agenda VR3 PDA, but it doesn't seem to be on any of the remaining sites. Anyone out there got it or, he asked hopefully, the entire SDK? Binaries OK, source better. --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -- Chico Marx -----------= -- --===============7237546745208753824==-- From philip@axeside.co.uk Mon Jul 25 11:38:19 2022 From: Philip Belben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: More Free stuff in Somerset, England Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 12:38:12 +0100 Message-ID: <1f020dba-86f1-2186-ec92-f6d28931496c@axeside.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1638251339771167514==" --===============1638251339771167514== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> A Penny & Giles 7000D double QIC drive. No idea what that conencts to. > > If it's anything like the 7100 single-drive unit I have here, it has > an RS232 interface and is designed for use in data logging systems. That sounds right. >> Finally, one piece of DEC kit I didn't mention last time is the Magtape >> drive. This is the sort that takes up the top 18U or thereabouts of a >> rack, but doesn't go very deep. I've been sorting through my Unibus >> cards (some of which are taken, but others may appear here), but I have >> no idea what cards would drive this tape machine. Can anyone help? > > Not without some clues, like a model number... Oops. TU16, I think. Philip. --===============1638251339771167514==-- From mike_t_norris@hotmail.com Mon Jul 25 13:29:05 2022 From: Mike Norris To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] A couple of Epson Printers going for free Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 13:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6471585624466483372==" --===============6471585624466483372== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I have a couple of Epson printers looking for a home. MX-80 FX-80 - with manual and (box I think) Both are parallel interface - Centronics, dot matrix printers taking pin feed= paper and roll paper, both were working when placed in store, but condition = now unknown (might be possible to test if required). Located in UK - Lancashire. Please reply off list to mike_t_norris(a)hotmail.= com Regards Mike Norris --===============6471585624466483372==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Tue Jul 26 21:19:37 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF West? Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:19:32 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CMN2PR16MB3598AF02777AD3093B8860A5A8919=40MN2PR16MB?= =?utf-8?q?3598=2Enamprd16=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0503353325654700778==" --===============0503353325654700778== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there going to be one this year? Is there a reason why it never gets mentioned here? (are there some personal issues that I shouldn't even ask about?) --===============0503353325654700778==-- From emu@e-bbes.com Tue Jul 26 21:57:07 2022 From: emanuel stiebler To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF West? Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 17:32:20 -0400 Message-ID: <715ce81d-1d5e-ac0f-2041-e778081a5bb2@e-bbes.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8296208955136467376==" --===============8296208955136467376== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2022-07-26 17:19, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Is there going to be one this year? > > > Is there a reason why it never gets mentioned here? > (are there some personal issues that I shouldn't even ask about?) > https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ August 6 & 7, 2022 --===============8296208955136467376==-- From lbickley@bickleywest.com Tue Jul 26 22:39:03 2022 From: Lyle Bickley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF West? Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:30:34 -0700 Message-ID: <20220726143034.4a5b0db5@asrock> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4708488792785316777==" --===============4708488792785316777== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, there very much is a VCF West!!! https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-exhibits/ Cheers, Lyle -- On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Is there going to be one this year? > > > Is there a reason why it never gets mentioned here? > (are there some personal issues that I shouldn't even ask about?) > -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" --===============4708488792785316777==-- From philip@axeside.co.uk Wed Jul 27 19:08:26 2022 From: Philip Belben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: More Free stuff in Somerset, England Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 20:08:16 +0100 Message-ID: <9f8ce47b-fcfd-49a6-4ce0-dfffa32fb017@axeside.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7932d409-91b2-f10d-2927-012d396e5d92@axeside.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2079396762586939738==" --===============2079396762586939738== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Finally, one piece of DEC kit I didn't mention last time is the Magtape > drive.  This is the sort that takes up the top 18U or thereabouts of a > rack, but doesn't go very deep.  I've been sorting through my Unibus > cards (some of which are taken, but others may appear here), but I have > no idea what cards would drive this tape machine.  Can anyone help? Well, thanks to Tony, I now know that it should have a whole card cage full of cards. It doesn't! The TU16 is therefore mechanism only, for spares. Another monster (which I'm amazed I even kept through the house move!). It calls itself a "D-Scan Colour Hardcopy". It is an enormously heavy box that takes in video on six coaxes, I think at CGA resolution, and uses special rolls of thermal transfer paper. One of the layers actually has magenta, cyan and yellow pages in rotation, for transferring to the paper at the appropriate point. Anyway, if anyone is interested, free as before. If not, in the skip... I have some photos which can upload if people want. Philip. --===============2079396762586939738==-- From silent700@gmail.com Thu Jul 28 05:40:16 2022 From: Jason T To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF Midwest? Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 00:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8666693779706374920==" --===============8666693779706374920== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 4:20 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Is there going to be one this year? Absolutely! And a VCF Midwest as well, near Chicago on September 10-11, 2022: http://vcfmw.org -jt --===============8666693779706374920==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Fri Jul 29 09:05:53 2022 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 09:05:46 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1031219653748774651==" --===============1031219653748774651== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Been a while since i last posted here. I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out Ultrix in the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This hang does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if not, rsx will be my second choice. Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! Thanks, Devin D. --===============1031219653748774651==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Fri Jul 29 14:53:43 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 10:53:38 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6140755986403264745==" --===============6140755986403264745== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. You needed two drives. RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > Hello, > > Been a while since i last posted here. > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out Ultrix in > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This hang > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if not, > rsx will be my second choice. > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > > Thanks, > > Devin D. --===============6140755986403264745==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Jul 29 15:00:40 2022 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:00:31 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4573710623658901377==" --===============4573710623658901377== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/29/22 10:53, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > You needed two drives. > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Been a while since i last posted here. >> >> I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. >> >> Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out >> Ultrix in >> the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a >> recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This hang >> does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. >> >> Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if not, >> rsx will be my second choice. >> >> Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Devin D. I didn't try installing but I grabbed a couple RL02 images I already had and booted an 11/34 with them so it will run. I may try an install and see what happens. bill --===============4573710623658901377==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Sat Jul 30 02:58:50 2022 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:52:01 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2969822744247131950==" --===============2969822744247131950== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for the suggestion, but what is 7m? i have done a few seacches but not turned up much. Sounds promising, if i can find install media ill give it a try in simh. Thanks, Devin D. On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > You needed two drives. > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Been a while since i last posted here. > > > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. > > > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out Ultrix > in > > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This hang > > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > > > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if not, > > rsx will be my second choice. > > > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devin D. > --===============2969822744247131950==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Sat Jul 30 03:35:03 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 23:34:56 -0400 Message-ID: <0cec70b6-6ad5-22bb-8da6-30d1862878d1@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6034975974127580968==" --===============6034975974127580968== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 7m was the Bell Labs unix that came after v6. I've got the disks somewhere around here, are there other copies out there? CZ On 7/29/2022 10:52 PM, devin davison wrote: > Thank you for the suggestion, but what is 7m? i have done a few seacches > but not turned up much. > > Sounds promising, if i can find install media ill give it a try in simh. > > Thanks, > > Devin D. > > > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk > > wrote: > > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > You needed two drives. > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Been a while since i last posted here. > > > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 > drives. > > > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out > Ultrix in > > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. > This hang > > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > > > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, > if not, > > rsx will be my second choice. > > > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devin D. > --===============6034975974127580968==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sat Jul 30 05:26:16 2022 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 21:40:48 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3380621888094196546==" --===============3380621888094196546== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 8:58 PM devin davison via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Thank you for the suggestion, but what is 7m? i have done a few seacches > but not turned up much. > DEC fixed a few bugs in V7 and expanded hardware support and called it 7m. Sounds promising, if i can find install media ill give it a try in simh. > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Jean_Huens_v7m/ Warner Thanks, > > Devin D. > > > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > > You needed two drives. > > > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Been a while since i last posted here. > > > > > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. > > > > > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out > Ultrix > > in > > > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > > > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This > hang > > > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > > > > > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if > not, > > > rsx will be my second choice. > > > > > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Devin D. > > > --===============3380621888094196546==-- From rtomek@ceti.pl Sat Jul 30 05:58:22 2022 From: Tomasz Rola To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Agenda VR3 MIPS cross-gcc Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 07:58:15 +0200 Message-ID: <20220730055815.GE10752@tau1.ceti.pl> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8626444285109240154==" --===============8626444285109240154== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 10:09:28PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > There used to be a cross-compiling gcc for MIPS specifically for the VR4121= in > the Agenda VR3 PDA, but it doesn't seem to be on any of the remaining sites. > Anyone out there got it or, he asked hopefully, the entire SDK? Binaries OK, > source better. This not a solution, but maybe a step closer to it. I wondered how is my gog-ability and if I could find something. I do not own Agenda and the best links were those: :: The Unofficial Agenda VR3 FAQ Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale, updated on the 30thth of December, 2016 https://www.lardcave.net/agenda/agenda-faq.html :: [agenda-user] trying to get cross development stuff to work https://web.archive.org/web/20020422095857/http://lists.agendacomputing.com/p= ipermail/agenda-user/2000-November/001367.html The second one at least gives you some filenames and instructions. I suspect your best bet would be to go find some old Linux archives, those packages were both in binary and source form. Having source, you should be at home (or closer to it). The files are possibly buried on some ftp site(s), but nowadays gog no longer indexes those (I suppose). Is there anything that indexes ftp sites, beyond, hum-hum, archie? Is there any archie server left? --=20 Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola(a)bigfoot.com ** --===============8626444285109240154==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Sat Jul 30 07:09:55 2022 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 02:03:12 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3459653301927315212==" --===============3459653301927315212== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Much appriciated, i will check 7m out now. Thanks for the link to the files. --Devin D. On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 11:41 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 8:58 PM devin davison via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Thank you for the suggestion, but what is 7m? i have done a few seacches >> but not turned up much. >> > > DEC fixed a few bugs in V7 and expanded hardware support and called it 7m. > > Sounds promising, if i can find install media ill give it a try in simh. >> > > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Jean_Huens_v7m/ > > Warner > > Thanks, >> >> Devin D. >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >> wrote: >> >> > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. >> > You needed two drives. >> > >> > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. >> > >> > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: >> > > Hello, >> > > >> > > Been a while since i last posted here. >> > > >> > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. >> > > >> > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out >> Ultrix >> > in >> > > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a >> > > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This >> hang >> > > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. >> > > >> > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if >> not, >> > > rsx will be my second choice. >> > > >> > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > Devin D. >> > >> > --===============3459653301927315212==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Sat Jul 30 12:57:39 2022 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF West 2022 Info Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:57:37 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <165894121068.2127582.18399179568335062161@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5382693477850323794==" --===============5382693477850323794== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the latest blog post about VCF West: https://vcfed.org/2022/07/21/vcf-west-2022-aug-6-7-great-speakers-exhibits-an= d-consignment/ For those doing consignment there is a new procedure. Please look at it here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-consignment/ We are doing a Point Of Sale system so Excel spreadsheets need to be submitted instead of paper. It will help streamline the process and reduce time and errors. Thanks! --===============5382693477850323794==-- From macro@orcam.me.uk Sat Jul 30 14:14:56 2022 From: "Maciej W. Rozycki" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Agenda VR3 MIPS cross-gcc Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 15:05:28 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20220730055815.GE10752@tau1.ceti.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7245521587794353845==" --===============7245521587794353845== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 30 Jul 2022, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > suppose). Is there anything that indexes ftp sites, beyond, hum-hum, > archie? Is there any archie server left? Yep, . Maciej --===============7245521587794353845==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sat Jul 30 15:29:02 2022 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Agenda VR3 MIPS cross-gcc Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:25:00 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0367789725387885221==" --===============0367789725387885221== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Jul 24, 2022, 11:09 PM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > There used to be a cross-compiling gcc for MIPS specifically for the > VR4121 in > the Agenda VR3 PDA, but it doesn't seem to be on any of the remaining > sites. > Anyone out there got it or, he asked hopefully, the entire SDK? Binaries > OK, > source better. > NetBSD/hpcmips supports the Vr42xx chips... Warner -- > ------------------------------------ personal: > http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * > ckaiser(a)floodgap.com > -- You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -- Chico Marx > ------------- > > --===============0367789725387885221==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sat Jul 30 16:15:45 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 10:15:26 -0600 Message-ID: <724076a4-026e-b6a6-e744-afc0debc7074@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5201562929747063439==" --===============5201562929747063439== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just saw an unknown to me connector listed on an eBay auction and was wondering if anyone knows more about an "FS/2" connector. Link - FS/2 to IBM PC-AT P-1940-0042 CABLE 6 FOOT FREE SHIPPING - https://www.ebay.com/itm/304580270070 I assumed it was a typo / poor original copy that should have been a "PS/2". But hovering over the label on the first three pictures clearly shows "FS/2". Whats more is the kerning on the "F" is easily differentiated from the "P" elsewhere on the same label. So it seems that it's not the typo / faded label / etc. that I assumed it was before clicking on the link. So ... does anyone know what an "FS/2" connector is? -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============5201562929747063439==-- From toby@telegraphics.com.au Sat Jul 30 16:24:37 2022 From: Toby Thain To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] FTGH: Embedded books HC11 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:18:30 -0400 Message-ID: <74ca9c42-465b-b89a-a1a5-c07ac91c5297@telegraphics.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8961124891844929969==" --===============8961124891844929969== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have these 3 books which are free for postage: 1) M68HC11E Family Technical Data 2) M68HC11 HCMOS Single-Chip Microcomputer Programmer's Reference Manual 3) MC68HC711D3 Technical Data Pic: https://imgur.com/TQhzUHJ Located: Toronto Canada --Toby --===============8961124891844929969==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 30 17:25:00 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 10:24:51 -0700 Message-ID: <5cdd1dc6-da55-1496-540f-1dee99a00c16@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <724076a4-026e-b6a6-e744-afc0debc7074@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7316562166450289841==" --===============7316562166450289841== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/30/22 09:15, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > > I just saw an unknown to me connector listed on an eBay auction and was > wondering if anyone knows more about an "FS/2" connector. > > Link - FS/2 to IBM PC-AT P-1940-0042 CABLE 6 FOOT FREE SHIPPING >  - https://www.ebay.com/itm/304580270070 > > I assumed it was a typo / poor original copy that should have been a > "PS/2".  But hovering over the label on the first three pictures clearly > shows "FS/2".  Whats more is the kerning on the "F" is easily > differentiated from the "P" elsewhere on the same label.  So it seems > that it's not the typo / faded label / etc. that I assumed it was before > clicking on the link. > > So ... does anyone know what an "FS/2" connector is? From the fuzzy photos, looks like a DE0 (EGA? CGA?) connector to S-video. But I'm not at all certain about that. --Chuck --===============7316562166450289841==-- From toby@telegraphics.com.au Sat Jul 30 17:47:37 2022 From: Toby Thain To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: FTGH: Embedded books HC11 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:47:32 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74ca9c42-465b-b89a-a1a5-c07ac91c5297@telegraphics.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7275632711085282030==" --===============7275632711085282030== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2022-07-30 12:18 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > > I have these 3 books which are free for postage: > > 1) M68HC11E Family Technical Data > 2) M68HC11 HCMOS Single-Chip Microcomputer Programmer's Reference Manual > 3) MC68HC711D3 Technical Data > > Pic: https://imgur.com/TQhzUHJ > > Located: Toronto Canada > > --Toby These are now claimed. --Toby --===============7275632711085282030==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 30 18:15:32 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 11:15:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3b94ed0e-e27f-5ef3-a3ae-5d8eb74045ed@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <5cdd1dc6-da55-1496-540f-1dee99a00c16@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3211057203997260350==" --===============3211057203997260350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/30/22 10:24, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >>From the fuzzy photos, looks like a DE0 (EGA? CGA?) connector to > S-video. But I'm not at all certain about that. Looking more closely at the photos, I note the DE9 is a *female* connector, which implies that this is a RS232 serial cable of some sort. FS = FlashSystem? --Chuck --===============3211057203997260350==-- From amp1ron@gmail.com Sat Jul 30 19:20:23 2022 From: amp1ron@gmail.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 23:57:52 -0400 Message-ID: <001301d8a3c8$8d6542c0$a82fc840$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0cec70b6-6ad5-22bb-8da6-30d1862878d1@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8676343828729444434==" --===============8676343828729444434== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 7m was the Bell Labs unix that came after v6. I've got the disks > somewhere around here, are there other copies out there? There is a copy of the contents of a 7m distribution tape at: https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Jean_Huens_v7m/ Along with the tape contents, there are also notes on bringing it Up under SIMH. --===============8676343828729444434==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sat Jul 30 20:52:33 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:52:29 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5cdd1dc6-da55-1496-540f-1dee99a00c16@sydex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4161345549844600285==" --===============4161345549844600285== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> I just saw an unknown to me connector listed on an eBay auction and was >> wondering if anyone knows more about an "FS/2" connector. >> Link - FS/2 to IBM PC-AT P-1940-0042 CABLE 6 FOOT FREE SHIPPING >>  - https://www.ebay.com/itm/304580270070 >>. . . >> So ... does anyone know what an "FS/2" connector is? On Sat, 30 Jul 2022, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> From the fuzzy photos, looks like a DE0 (EGA? CGA?) connector to > S-video. But I'm not at all certain about that. The DE-9 connector appears to be a female. Therefore, it would not plug into a CGA or EGA card (which both had female connectors on the card. It could plug into an AT "Asynchronous Communication" card (RS232) which had a DE-9 male connector on the card (previously a DB-25 male) OR, it could be intended as an adapter cable, where the DIN? connector plugged into whatever an "FS/2"might be, and then an MDA/CGA/EGA monitor connected to the DE-9. So, who, in May 8, or August 5, 1999 made, or made 3rd party cables for, a machine called "FS/2" that had a DIN style video output, or a DIN style serial port, that they would want to connect to an AT serial port or IBM PC style monitor? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============4161345549844600285==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sat Jul 30 21:21:16 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 14:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4810931450852250295==" --===============4810931450852250295== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://www.handheldsystems.com/handhelds/ms-dos/fs3/fs3_access.htm has one of those cables (or at least "P-1940-0042" part number) $125 For connecting an "Itron FS/3 to PC". and a manual ("Developer's Guide") for an "Itronix Husky FS/2". $75 So, look for "Itronix/Itron Husky FS/2" https://cybarcode.com/itronix/data_collection_terminals/portable/batch/husky_= fs2 https://www.9jatools.com/products/sokkia-itronix-husky-fs2-handheld-computer-= fs-2?variant=3D30927526723683 has a picture of the end of the FS/2, which has 2 male DE-9 ports. So, could that cable be used for connecting an FS/2 to a PC keyboard or=20 mouse port, as a way to transfer field barcode? data to the PC? Note: that cable has a large heavy DE-9 connector; tighten the screws! otherwise, movement of that cable relative to your FS/2 could do serious=20 daamage to the connectors. For handheld use, without screwing it in, that=20 connector should be replaced with a very flexible small molded connector. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============4810931450852250295==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sat Jul 30 21:52:25 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 14:52:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6686820288549439672==" --===============6686820288549439672== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Itron/Itronix Husky FS/2 handheld computer Handheld, using 3 AA batteries 8 x 40 display 240 x 64 pixel (if you think that text on your phone is too easy to read, or got hooked=20 on Gavilan 8 line display) FS/2 had an "4M RAM, 8086, and MS-DOS 3.30" according to first link=20 (considering the non-IBM display format, probably 3.31, contrary to the "3.30= "=20 mentioned on the first page, and the second link also says 8MHz NEC V25+=20 and 1-2M RAM) MS-DOS 2.11 and 3.31 could be configured for 8x40 display, 2.10 and 3.30=20 would require modifications, not just configuration. Chuck could elaborate on the 2.11 and 3.31 "OEM versions" of MS-DOS that=20 were intended for non-PC configurations. Optional 12 pin RS232 "round connector" (FS/3 had 386EX, and MS-DOS 6.22! and a "type 2" "PC Card" internal slot) https://www.handheldsystems.com/handhelds/ms-dos/fs2/fs2.htm https://www.handheldsystems.com/handhelds/ms-dos/fs_brochure.pdf --===============6686820288549439672==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 30 22:05:47 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 14:56:38 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4116903797227160277==" --===============4116903797227160277== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/30/22 14:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > https://www.handheldsystems.com/handhelds/ms-dos/fs3/fs3_access.htm >=20 > has one of those cables (or at least "P-1940-0042" part number) $125 > For connecting an "Itron FS/3 to PC". > and a manual ("Developer's Guide") for an "Itronix Husky FS/2". $75 >=20 > So, look for "Itronix/Itron Husky FS/2" > https://cybarcode.com/itronix/data_collection_terminals/portable/batch/husk= y_fs2 >=20 >=20 > https://www.9jatools.com/products/sokkia-itronix-husky-fs2-handheld-compute= r-fs-2?variant=3D30927526723683 >=20 > has a picture of the end of the FS/2, which has 2 male DE-9 ports. > So, could that cable be used for connecting an FS/2 to a PC keyboard or > mouse port, as a way to transfer field barcode? data to the PC? Could be--again, blurry photos leave us guessing. But that's a good find! --Chuck --===============4116903797227160277==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 30 22:12:49 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 15:12:42 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2957863696388940108==" --===============2957863696388940108== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Found the cable on the handheldsystems web site, but it's not a keyboard connector. Text reads: Itron FS3 to PC Cable, 12M/9F Itron FS3 Circular 12-pin Male to PC DB9F 9-pin Female cable P-1940-0042 $125.00 On the brochure, an option for the FS/3 serial communications is specified as "2 x RS232/V24 ports via 12 way circular connectors --COM1 & COM2. What my takeaway from this is the cable is to connect a PC serial port to the optional 12 pin circular serial port on the FS2/FS3. Heck, I can barely read my 11 inch tablet screen... --Chuck --===============2957863696388940108==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sat Jul 30 22:16:24 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 15:16:18 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3654499609643103791==" --===============3654499609643103791== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> https://www.handheldsystems.com/handhelds/ms-dos/fs3/fs3_access.htm >> has one of those cables (or at least "P-1940-0042" part number) $125 >> For connecting an "Itron FS/3 to PC". >> and a manual ("Developer's Guide") for an "Itronix Husky FS/2". $75 >> So, look for "Itronix/Itron Husky FS/2" >> https://cybarcode.com/itronix/data_collection_terminals/portable/batch/hus= ky_fs2 >> https://www.9jatools.com/products/sokkia-itronix-husky-fs2-handheld-comput= er-fs-2?variant=3D30927526723683 >> has a picture of the end of the FS/2, which has 2 male DE-9 ports. On Sat, 30 Jul 2022, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Could be--again, blurry photos leave us guessing. But that's a good find! My subsequent email has URL for the spec sheet for the FS/2. It mentions in the table, a "12 pin round connector RS232". In which=20 case, this cable is for connecting THAT connector to PC RS232. But, I'm REALLY hoping that someday you will elaborate in length about the=20 MS-DOS 2.11 and 3.31 OEM configuration capabilities and limitations! --===============3654499609643103791==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Sat Jul 30 22:51:34 2022 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Odd Unix computer Bio-Rad SRC 3200 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 18:43:11 -0400 Message-ID: <36dc8a07-a835-a298-a352-addb41af8fe7@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2250894944438236999==" --===============2250894944438236999== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have a Bio-Rad SRC 3200, which is a workstation that operated a Bio-Rad FTS-40 FTIR spectrometer. A few years ago I got it to power on and it runs Unix variant, their product name was Idris.  I have 16 floppies (dated 1992) that came with the system, but the hard disk has died. It is based on a 68030 CPU and has a floppy and SCSI disk and QIC tape drive.  Is it possible to run some flavor of BSD on this hardware? What are the minimum requirements for BSD? Doug --===============2250894944438236999==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sat Jul 30 23:21:17 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 16:12:01 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5925705787879938256==" --===============5925705787879938256== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/30/22 15:16, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > But, I'm REALLY hoping that someday you will elaborate in length about > the MS-DOS 2.11 and 3.31 OEM configuration capabilities and limitations! My recollection (very hazy after about 40 years) from DOS 2.x is that as an OEM you supplied the IO.SYS and low-level utilities. If you look at the MSDOS 2 or 6 source code (available on the web), there are scads of adjustments in the code for the large OEMs like Compaq. --Chuck --===============5925705787879938256==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Jul 31 00:06:34 2022 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Odd Unix computer Bio-Rad SRC 3200 Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 00:01:02 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <36dc8a07-a835-a298-a352-addb41af8fe7@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4642463847887951053==" --===============4642463847887951053== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doug, > A few years ago I got it to power on and it runs Unix variant, their > product name was Idris. I have 16 floppies (dated 1992) that came with > the system, but the hard disk has died. Interesting! I have a Multibus system that runs Idris, very little informatio= n seems to be around on it. Mine's a straight 68K. > What are the minimum requirements for BSD? With an '030 you should be able to run NetBSD-CURRENT, slowly :P You would of= course have to write drivers for any unsupported hardware you need. Thanks, Jonathan --===============4642463847887951053==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 00:46:23 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Datapoint 3300 owners? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 20:39:05 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0947809385467968072==" --===============0947809385467968072== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a NOS power support for the Datapoint 3300 display, contact me through kennettclassic.com. The datapoint has three power supplies, I am referrung to the OECO 15KV DC output supply.with the cup attached to it. Bill --===============0947809385467968072==-- From rtomek@ceti.pl Sun Jul 31 01:04:18 2022 From: Tomasz Rola To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Agenda VR3 MIPS cross-gcc Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 03:04:11 +0200 Message-ID: <20220731010411.GB7847@tau1.ceti.pl> In-Reply-To: <20220730055815.GE10752@tau1.ceti.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1991321924568757268==" --===============1991321924568757268== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 07:58:15AM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote: > On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 10:09:28PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > > There used to be a cross-compiling gcc for MIPS specifically for the VR41= 21 in > > the Agenda VR3 PDA, but it doesn't seem to be on any of the remaining sit= es. > > Anyone out there got it or, he asked hopefully, the entire SDK? Binaries = OK, > > source better. >=20 > This not a solution, but maybe a step closer to it. [...] As an afterthought, given that Agenda operating system is actually a Linux with X for graphical part, only small, but still a Linux, thus Unix... So if you could bring up xterm (or anything-else-term) on your device and tap on it this command: find / | less If there is /usr/bin/less and /usr/bin/find on it, you will get full list of files on it. less reacts (it should) to up/down keys, also to page up/down and scrolls. Do not count on gcc, but there should be sh, maybe awk. Some kind of editor, although you could do without it (edit files on desktop and copy-paste into remote terminal, see below). If you can do ppp connection to your desktop (over serial), you might then be able to run xterm on Agenda and display it on a desktop. It will be slow like (expletive) with stones in hell, but should be bearable, especially since in this way you would be able to use full sized keyboard for writing on this terminal. If you can get to this point, it will be a bit easier to make it useful. It might be possible to connect to it with kermit instead of ppp - again, a terminal for you, and quite faster to work with. --=20 Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola(a)bigfoot.com ** --===============1991321924568757268==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 01:33:01 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:32:48 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <724076a4-026e-b6a6-e744-afc0debc7074@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3813199348360185167==" --===============3813199348360185167== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/30/22 10:15 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I just saw an unknown to me connector listed on an eBay auction and was > wondering if anyone knows more about an "FS/2" connector. Thank you all. It seems as "FS/2" is not a /type/ /of/ /connector/ so much as it is a /device/ that. TodayIlearned :-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============3813199348360185167==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Jul 31 01:47:04 2022 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What is an "FS/2" connector? Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:23:23 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3928725571456683219==" --===============3928725571456683219== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 5:21 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 7/30/22 15:16, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > > > But, I'm REALLY hoping that someday you will elaborate in length about > > the MS-DOS 2.11 and 3.31 OEM configuration capabilities and limitations! > > > My recollection (very hazy after about 40 years) from DOS 2.x is that as > an OEM you supplied the IO.SYS and low-level utilities. If you look at > the MSDOS 2 or 6 source code (available on the web), there are scads of > adjustments in the code for the large OEMs like Compaq. > That's certainly what DEC did with its Rainbow... Warner > --===============3928725571456683219==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 02:12:31 2022 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Odd Unix computer Bio-Rad SRC 3200 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:04:10 -0400 Message-ID: <94ddd6b5-b432-7575-d9ff-ff2888244409@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CeVLE8mD=5FL17bxcpc7R719KRtZD-FPG7x7L-3q40=5FKHd9Km?= =?utf-8?q?cXpuIS2ML8BpD2u7J-1f8RVyjfVCZ77ZxuuvNWJWYEPQgb=5Ff=5Fmq1PiaDQuzxw?= =?utf-8?q?=3D=40glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4165928849101601797==" --===============4165928849101601797== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/30/2022 8:01 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: > Doug, > >> A few years ago I got it to power on and it runs Unix variant, their >> product name was Idris. I have 16 floppies (dated 1992) that came with >> the system, but the hard disk has died. > Interesting! I have a Multibus system that runs Idris, very little informat= ion seems to be around on it. Mine's a straight 68K. > >> What are the minimum requirements for BSD? > With an '030 you should be able to run NetBSD-CURRENT, slowly :P You would = of course have to write drivers for any unsupported hardware you need. > > Thanks, > Jonathan What an odd OS.=C2=A0 Glad to see that someone else recognized it. Looked it = up on the internet and found a Wiki page giving a brief history.=C2=A0 Now I = know more than before. In my case I have something where the hardware is unique, the OS is=20 unique.=C2=A0 A real honest to goodness dinosaur. Bio-Rad built and labeled the CPU board, not cheaply either! Looks like=20 it used standard components for scsi control, floppy i/f.=C2=A0 No graphics, = simple line drawing. Doug --===============4165928849101601797==-- From lyokoboy0@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 05:11:50 2022 From: devin davison To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 05:11:47 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55801BBEFDB6BD5E23144E37ED999=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4252332262040080445==" --===============4252332262040080445== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That sounds promising. I'm going to attempt another RL02 install in simh as well and post back with the results. Thanks, Devin D. On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 11:00 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 7/29/22 10:53, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > > You needed two drives. > > > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> Been a while since i last posted here. > >> > >> I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. > >> > >> Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out > >> Ultrix in > >> the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > >> recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This > hang > >> does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > >> > >> Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if > not, > >> rsx will be my second choice. > >> > >> Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Devin D. > > > I didn't try installing but I grabbed a couple RL02 images I > already had and booted an 11/34 with them so it will run. I > may try an install and see what happens. > > bill > > --===============4252332262040080445==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 05:23:02 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:23:04 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01d8a49d$9cab1c70$d6015550$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1387959032137966070==" --===============1387959032137966070== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for some advice and recommendations on how to best go about accomplishing the following: I have recently come into possession of an actual physical terminal that can be connected to a device via a standard RS232 (serial) port, so far so good. I have a number of devices that can be connected to for maintenance (e.g. FW updates, configuration, etc.) via a serial port. Currently I have been using an old laptop with a terminal program (Procomm Plus) whenever I want to connected to one of these devices. This involves crawling around connecting the serial cable, doing what needs to be done, crawling back disconnecting, rinse and repeat. I can connect the physical terminal to one device at a time and have a permanent connection to that one device, great for one device but not so useful. So I was thinking if it would be possible to do this over the LAN. I know about console servers where I could connect multiple serial devices to the server and then access each device over LAN via a telnet client on a modern system using an IP:port schema. This works great except I don't get to play with my shiny, new to me, authentic experience terminal device. So I am wondering if there is a box that provides a telnet CLIENT to a serial port device? I.E. a box smart enough that handles the telnet client, LAN functions, and terminal emulations internally and then provides a text based interface through a serial port that is compatible with my physical terminal? That way my physical terminal would be connected to the RS232/LAN bridge all the time and I could connected to not only the serial ports connected to the console server but other telnet accessible services as all the heavy lifting would be done on the bridge. I am ideally looking for a ready to go, low power device, I can hide away as opposed to setting up a PC of my own running some *nix flavor that I know can do this but is way over kill. Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. Thanks! -Ali --===============1387959032137966070==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 05:45:29 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:45:16 -0600 Message-ID: <6ca5f16b-03fe-b47d-f641-503300b2d396@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: <004a01d8a49d$9cab1c70$d6015550$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6975797673977195315==" --===============6975797673977195315== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/30/22 11:23 PM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > I am ideally looking for a ready to go, low power device, I can hide > away as opposed to setting up a PC of my own running some *nix flavor > that I know can do this but is way over kill. I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this nicely. > Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. IMHO, the Raspberry Pi, et al. qualify here too. > Thanks! :-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============6975797673977195315==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 05:50:38 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:50:40 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01d8a4a1$77f90cd0$67eb2670$@net> In-Reply-To: <6ca5f16b-03fe-b47d-f641-503300b2d396@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8387182600217082224==" --===============8387182600217082224== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this > nicely. >=20 Yes, but it wouldn't be ready to go ;). I would need to find a raspberry pi w= ith a built in serial port and a flavor Linux already loaded on it plus confi= guration. There are plenty of SERVER devices out there (i.e. take data from t= he serial console of a device and present it over the LAN via TCP/IP and acce= ssible by Telnet, SSH, even HTTP) so I am hoping someone has a client device = as well. -Ali --===============8387182600217082224==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Jul 31 06:09:27 2022 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 16:32:11 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001301d8a3c8$8d6542c0$a82fc840$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7693532705362166290==" --===============7693532705362166290== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 1:20 PM Ron Pool via cctalk wrote: > > 7m was the Bell Labs unix that came after v6. I've got the disks > > somewhere around here, are there other copies out there? > > There is a copy of the contents of a 7m distribution tape at: > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Jean_Huens_v7m/ > > Along with the tape contents, there are also notes on bringing it > Up under SIMH. > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/ultrix-11/Unix_V7M_Release_2.1_Software_De= scription_Sep81.pdf is also helpful. It explains what hardware is supported, and includes how to set things up. When I played with it, I used this doc rather than the TUHS doc because I somehow overlooked the TUHS docs on how to set it up... In all honesty, the TUHS docs, had I read them, would have saved me a bit of time... Warner --===============7693532705362166290==-- From trevorjmarshall@yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 13:25:09 2022 From: Trevor Marshall To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:25:03 +0000 Message-ID: <589096588.4441134.1659273903721@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <004b01d8a4a1$77f90cd0$67eb2670$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6342731947762168966==" --===============6342731947762168966== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ali I have used the Lantronix UDS1100 for Ethernet/RS232 bridging....maybe too pr= icey new, but available on ePay Trevor On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 01:50:39 AM EDT, Ali via cctalk wrote: =20 =20 > I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this > nicely. >=20 Yes, but it wouldn't be ready to go ;). I would need to find a raspberry pi w= ith a built in serial port and a flavor Linux already loaded on it plus confi= guration. There are plenty of SERVER devices out there (i.e. take data from t= he serial console of a device and present it over the LAN via TCP/IP and acce= ssible by Telnet, SSH, even HTTP) so I am hoping someone has a client device = as well. -Ali =20 --===============6342731947762168966==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Jul 31 13:45:41 2022 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:45:23 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <589096588.4441134.1659273903721@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2881836594349989962==" --===============2881836594349989962== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I have used the Lantronix UDS1100 for Ethernet/RS232 bridging....maybe too = pricey new, but available on ePay The older models (LRS-1, LRS-2, UDS10, etc.) also work fine. If you have more= than one terminal, look at a small terminal server. There are a few terminal= server models that go for serious money (e.g. DECserver 700s, for some reaso= n) but most of them cost more to ship than to buy! Thanks, Jonathan --===============2881836594349989962==-- From chris@groessler.org Sun Jul 31 14:08:25 2022 From: Christian Groessler To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:48:09 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004a01d8a49d$9cab1c70$d6015550$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3956932303001255566==" --===============3956932303001255566== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 07:23, Ali via cctalk wrote: > So I am wondering if there is a box that provides a telnet CLIENT to a > serial port device? I.E. a box smart enough that handles the telnet client, > LAN functions, and terminal emulations internally and then provides a text > based interface through a serial port that is compatible with my physical > terminal? That way my physical terminal would be connected to the RS232/LAN > bridge all the time and I could connected to not only the serial ports > connected to the console server but other telnet accessible services as all > the heavy lifting would be done on the bridge. I am ideally looking for a > ready to go, low power device, I can hide away as opposed to setting up a PC > of my own running some *nix flavor that I know can do this but is way over > kill. Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. Thanks! I once used a DECserver200 terminal server to throw a login prompt (and subsequent login session) from a Linux host to a connected terminal. The DECserver uses the LAT protocol, not IP. I needed to change /etc/inittab to start a session not with getty, but some lat program I don't remember. regards, chris --===============3956932303001255566==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 15:07:56 2022 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:07:46 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004a01d8a49d$9cab1c70$d6015550$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2427510123519760223==" --===============2427510123519760223== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/31/2022 1:23 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > I am looking for some advice and recommendations on how to best go about > accomplishing the following: > > I have recently come into possession of an actual physical terminal that can > be connected to a device via a standard RS232 (serial) port, so far so good. > > > I have a number of devices that can be connected to for maintenance (e.g. FW > updates, configuration, etc.) via a serial port. Currently I have been using > an old laptop with a terminal program (Procomm Plus) whenever I want to > connected to one of these devices. This involves crawling around connecting > the serial cable, doing what needs to be done, crawling back disconnecting, > rinse and repeat. > > I can connect the physical terminal to one device at a time and have a > permanent connection to that one device, great for one device but not so > useful. > > So I was thinking if it would be possible to do this over the LAN. > > I know about console servers where I could connect multiple serial devices > to the server and then access each device over LAN via a telnet client on a > modern system using an IP:port schema. This works great except I don't get > to play with my shiny, new to me, authentic experience terminal device. > > So I am wondering if there is a box that provides a telnet CLIENT to a > serial port device? I.E. a box smart enough that handles the telnet client, > LAN functions, and terminal emulations internally and then provides a text > based interface through a serial port that is compatible with my physical > terminal? That way my physical terminal would be connected to the RS232/LAN > bridge all the time and I could connected to not only the serial ports > connected to the console server but other telnet accessible services as all > the heavy lifting would be done on the bridge. I am ideally looking for a > ready to go, low power device, I can hide away as opposed to setting up a PC > of my own running some *nix flavor that I know can do this but is way over > kill. Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. Thanks! > > -Ali > > > I got a Lantroix SCS 400 off of ebay for cheap.  4 Serial DB-9 ports, one RJ45 LAN port.  Has built in Telnet , SSH.  I think you can go back the other way, i.e. Computer -> LAN -> into one of the RS232 ports.  Never used it that way. Used it to connect actual terminals to Vax computers, very easy. Connecting to Linux was hard, Linux doesn't like old style TELNET by default. Doug --===============2427510123519760223==-- From dj.taylor4@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 15:09:49 2022 From: Douglas Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Odd Unix computer Bio-Rad SRC 3200 Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:09:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3497d5e0-c2c5-3c8c-efc3-02a1b056a17f@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <94ddd6b5-b432-7575-d9ff-ff2888244409@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6562328117140603311==" --===============6562328117140603311== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/30/2022 10:04 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 7/30/2022 8:01 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: >> Doug, >> >>> A few years ago I got it to power on and it runs Unix variant, their >>> product name was Idris. I have 16 floppies (dated 1992) that came with >>> the system, but the hard disk has died. >> Interesting! I have a Multibus system that runs Idris, very little >> information seems to be around on it. Mine's a straight 68K. >> >>> What are the minimum requirements for BSD? >> With an '030 you should be able to run NetBSD-CURRENT, slowly :P You >> would of course have to write drivers for any unsupported hardware >> you need. >> >> Thanks, >> Jonathan > > What an odd OS.  Glad to see that someone else recognized it. Looked > it up on the internet and found a Wiki page giving a brief history.  > Now I know more than before. > > In my case I have something where the hardware is unique, the OS is > unique.  A real honest to goodness dinosaur. > > Bio-Rad built and labeled the CPU board, not cheaply either! Looks > like it used standard components for scsi control, floppy i/f.  No > graphics, simple line drawing. > > Doug > Decided to sell it, can't keep it any longer.  See pictures on ebay item 325288272428.  There were manuals for Idris. Doug --===============6562328117140603311==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 16:03:41 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 16:03:38 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0cec70b6-6ad5-22bb-8da6-30d1862878d1@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1807934647268690135==" --===============1807934647268690135== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd start with version 6 on an 11/34 first unless you are sure you have have the required hardware for There are a few disk pack images out there but not many, you might have to start with what you can find B On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 11:35 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > 7m was the Bell Labs unix that came after v6. I've got the disks > somewhere around here, are there other copies out there? > > CZ > > On 7/29/2022 10:52 PM, devin davison wrote: > > Thank you for the suggestion, but what is 7m? i have done a few seacches > > but not turned up much. > > > > Sounds promising, if i can find install media ill give it a try in simh. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devin D. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk > > > wrote: > > > > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on > them. > > You needed two drives. > > > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Been a while since i last posted here. > > > > > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 > > drives. > > > > > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out > > Ultrix in > > > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > > > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. > > This hang > > > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > > > > > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, > > if not, > > > rsx will be my second choice. > > > > > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Devin D. > > > --===============1807934647268690135==-- From emu@e-bbes.com Sun Jul 31 16:06:28 2022 From: emanuel stiebler To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Odd Unix computer Bio-Rad SRC 3200 Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:21:17 -0400 Message-ID: <9a222768-6356-86e8-6b57-5f2aeb36f703@e-bbes.com> In-Reply-To: <3497d5e0-c2c5-3c8c-efc3-02a1b056a17f@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5587559480725268919==" --===============5587559480725268919== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2022-07-31 11:09, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Decided to sell it, can't keep it any longer.  See pictures on ebay item > 325288272428.  There were manuals for Idris. Did you see, there is another one of those on ebay ... --===============5587559480725268919==-- From organlists1@sonic.net Sun Jul 31 16:27:43 2022 From: "D. Resor" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Ethernet Transceivers.... Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 07:53:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8251058410949349175==" --===============8251058410949349175== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was looking at this page on DigiBarn, https://www.digibarn.com/collections/parts/ethernet-taps/index.html and the old Ethernet transceivers. For the life of me I cannot remember what the transceivers used with the Xerox 6085 (Daybreak) looked like in 1989. There was wall to wall Xerox 8000 servers mixed in with 6085-Is at the software testing lab, in El Segundo, California, DSBU (Documenter Systems Business Unit) but that is now mostly a faded memory. Don Resor --===============8251058410949349175==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Sun Jul 31 16:55:15 2022 From: Chris Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:55:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6006237014355295595==" --===============6006237014355295595== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My copy of V7 just required the FPP. Ran on RL02 or RL01, I forget. Need=20 to dig it out and image it. CZ On 7/29/2022 11:56 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > I'd start with version 6 on an 11/34 first unless you are sure you have > have the required hardware for >=20 > There are a few disk pack images out there but not many, you might have to > start with what you can find > B >=20 > On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 11:35 PM Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> 7m was the Bell Labs unix that came after v6. I've got the disks >> somewhere around here, are there other copies out there? >> >> CZ >> >> On 7/29/2022 10:52 PM, devin davison wrote: >>> Thank you for the suggestion, but what is 7m? i have done a few seacches >>> but not turned up much. >>> >>> Sounds promising, if i can find install media ill give it a try in simh. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Devin D. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on >> them. >>> You needed two drives. >>> >>> RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. >>> >>> On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > Been a while since i last posted here. >>> > >>> > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 >>> drives. >>> > >>> > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out >>> Ultrix in >>> > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a >>> > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. >>> This hang >>> > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. >>> > >>> > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, >>> if not, >>> > rsx will be my second choice. >>> > >>> > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Devin D. >>> >> --===============6006237014355295595==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 17:03:08 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <005601d8a4ff$6a81b210$3f851630$@net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1481532438955184571==" --===============1481532438955184571== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I got a Lantroix SCS 400 off of ebay for cheap. 4 Serial DB-9 ports, > one RJ45 LAN port. Has built in Telnet , SSH. I think you can go back > the other way, i.e. Computer -> LAN -> into one of the RS232 ports. > Never used it that way. >=20 > Used it to connect actual terminals to Vax computers, very easy. > Connecting to Linux was hard, Linux doesn't like old style TELNET by > default. Doug, Thanks for the info. I will look and see if I can find the manual for it to c= heck it out. -Ali --===============1481532438955184571==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 17:03:09 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:03:11 -0700 Message-ID: <005701d8a4ff$6b2ce630$4186b290$@net> In-Reply-To: <589096588.4441134.1659273903721@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3209946818941002350==" --===============3209946818941002350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Ali >=20 > I have used the Lantronix UDS1100 for Ethernet/RS232 bridging....maybe > too pricey new, but available on ePay > Trevor Trevor, I checked out the manual for the Lantronix and while it is a capable server i= t does not provide a client interface. Thanks. -Ali =20 --===============3209946818941002350==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 17:05:39 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:05:41 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01d8a4ff$c48e3760$4daaa620$@net> In-Reply-To: <6ca5f16b-03fe-b47d-f641-503300b2d396@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1840378105046104104==" --===============1840378105046104104== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this > nicely. .... >=20 > IMHO, the Raspberry Pi, et al. qualify here too. Well after looking around a bit last night and my Google fu failing to provid= e anything worthwhile Grant may be right i.e. there is no device that make a = shell or a telnet client available to a terminal and I will have to roll my o= wn. I have absolutely no experience with Raspberry Pi (or any of these mini e= mbedded devices). Looking around it looks like a box would set me back about = $130 even if I can get all the parts: RPi 4 w/ case, PSU, heat sinks, etc. $130 (w/ tax etc.): https://www.ebay.com= /itm/284826299524 RPi Serial HAT $26: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284910159003 Now I am guessing the Pi 4 is overkill for what I need (text based shell runn= ing telnet or another telnet client). So nay advice and guidance is appreciat= ed. Thanks. -Ali --===============1840378105046104104==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Jul 31 17:22:07 2022 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:21:51 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006c01d8a4ff$c48e3760$4daaa620$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7977833811683067591==" --===============7977833811683067591== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > i.e. there is no device that make a shell or a telnet client available to a= terminal and I will have to roll my own. You may of course choose to DIY but there have been several common and cheapl= y-available-used solutions presented to you. The default behavior of most ter= minal servers (single port or otherwise) is, "connect your terminal, hit RETU= RN a few times, Telnet/rlogin/SSH/whatever to whatever host you desire." Thanks, Jonathan --===============7977833811683067591==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Sun Jul 31 17:29:09 2022 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:44:22 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2959429698836310230==" --===============2959429698836310230== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are my suggestions for you: 1.=C2=A0 If you want to connect an actual Serial Terminal to multiple hosts=20 the easiest thing to use is a DB-9 or DB-25 switch box. Something like=20 this:=20 https://www.amazon.com/Kentek-Female-Peripherals-Devices-Printer/dp/B07KWTJ7N= F/ref=3Dsr_1_4?crid=3DHQ5WFXUZBFZA&keywords=3DRS-232+switch+box&qid=3D1659281= 663&sprefix=3Drs-232+switch+box%2Caps%2C232&sr=3D8-4 2.=C2=A0 If you want to be able to connect to multiple serial host over your = LAN one option would be to use any number of a myriad of multiple serial=20 port to USB adapters.=C2=A0 Something like that:=20 https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Serial-Windows-Certified-Drivers/dp/B004ETDC8K/= ref=3Dsr_1_3?crid=3D3LYCC8JEXH6MG&keywords=3D4+port+usb+to+serial&qid=3D16592= 81763&sprefix=3D4+port+usb+to+serial%2Caps%2C125&sr=3D8-3 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Then you can VNC or RDP (Remote Desktop) into the P= C and then=20 connect to the serial ports with a terminal emulator. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 However, that does not allow you to use your serial= terminal. 3.=C2=A0 If you don't want to run RS-232 cables to your hosts you can use=20 this to connect them to your network using something like this:=20 https://www.amazon.com/CERRXIAN-Ethernet-Serial-Device-Converter/dp/B087J9F6L= F/ref=3Dsr_1_5?keywords=3Drs-232+to+ethernet&qid=3D1659281867&sprefix=3Drs-23= 2+to+%2Caps%2C119&sr=3D8-5 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You connect to=C2=A0 your hosts with any TCP/IP cap= able terminal emulator. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 However, that does not allow you to use your serial termi= nal. Good luck. --===============2959429698836310230==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 17:46:57 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:38:37 -0400 Message-ID: <41C0430F-9BD1-44E0-B925-233012902D15@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <004b01d8a4a1$77f90cd0$67eb2670$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5911833465590311770==" --===============5911833465590311770== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > On Jul 31, 2022, at 1:50 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote: >=20 >> I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this >> nicely. >>=20 >=20 > Yes, but it wouldn't be ready to go ;). I would need to find a raspberry pi= with a built in serial port and a flavor Linux already loaded on it plus con= figuration. There are plenty of SERVER devices out there (i.e. take data from= the serial console of a device and present it over the LAN via TCP/IP and ac= cessible by Telnet, SSH, even HTTP) so I am hoping someone has a client devic= e as well. One easy way would be to plug in a USB to RS232 adapter into any old Linux de= vice, like a Pi. Another is to use an RS232 converter card for the built-in = UARTs. I don't know about the Pi, but I've used such a device for the Beagle= Bone Black. A Telnet client is a standard tool; if it doesn't come pre-installed it's jus= t a matter of installing the relevant package. paul --===============5911833465590311770==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 17:49:48 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:49:45 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1905773637754424453==" --===============1905773637754424453== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put UNIX on a RL02 and ran on an 11/40, so there is no reason why you can't replicate on an 11/34. On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 10:53 AM Chris Zach via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > You needed two drives. > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Been a while since i last posted here. > > > > I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. > > > > Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out Ultrix > in > > the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > > recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This hang > > does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > > > > Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if not, > > rsx will be my second choice. > > > > Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devin D. > --===============1905773637754424453==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sun Jul 31 17:52:19 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:47:07 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3Ci8-xIBlBQ13r168L8=5FlmfuBCkgdLarIvxbZPQwyOseaQw42I?= =?utf-8?q?hnA5rSRGXtEs27rM4NDE3g-P5oDgeWKSv3JYmBiMCeKpIKrrxL9W1DsGWfY=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6556043412363605330==" --===============6556043412363605330== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/31/22 10:21, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: >> i.e. there is no device that make a shell or a telnet client available to = a terminal and I will have to roll my own. >=20 > You may of course choose to DIY but there have been several common and chea= ply-available-used solutions presented to you. The default behavior of most t= erminal servers (single port or otherwise) is, "connect your terminal, hit RE= TURN a few times, Telnet/rlogin/SSH/whatever to whatever host you desire." Orange Pi zero with a 3.3V to RS232C level converter (basically a MAX232 IC) should fit the bill, no? --Chuck --===============6556043412363605330==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 17:57:47 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:57:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1c804c90-8d24-353b-3cca-0e3b6c3143f3@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: <006c01d8a4ff$c48e3760$4daaa620$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6775924514820271450==" --===============6775924514820271450== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 11:05 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Well after looking around a bit last night and my Google fu failing to > provide anything worthwhile :-/ > Grant may be right i.e. there is no device that make a shell or a > telnet client available to a terminal and I will have to roll my > own. I somewhat glossed over the /exact/ specifics desired in the first email because I'm quite confident that any Linux / Unix (like) OS can do whatever it is you are trying to do with a serial port. The Raspberry Pi being a quintessential small form factor system. The question becomes more what specifically do you want to do so as to use that as information on how to configure the system. There is effectively no difference between a Raspberry Pi and a generic 486 and a SPARC Station 5. They are all acting as a tiny system to gateway between a serial port and the network in one way or another. Re-reading your original post (germane comment copied below for convenience) it seems like any Linux / Unix (like) OS would do the following: 1) Provide a shell prompt -- likely without login -- on a serial port for the physically connected terminal (emulating) device. 2) Issue telnet / rsh / rlogin / ssh / et al. commands to connect as a client to remote systems across the network. -- Which command is simply a matter of what /client/ software is installed on the system. > I have absolutely no experience with Raspberry Pi (or any of these > mini embedded devices). My personal opinion is that the Raspberry Pi /physical/ aspect of this is actually a minor part of the puzzle. > Looking around it looks like a box would set me back about $130 even > if I can get all the parts: I'm gobsmacked. I would have assumed that you could get into something sufficient for your needs for about a third of that (< $50). > Now I am guessing the Pi 4 is overkill for what I need (text based > shell running telnet or another telnet client). So nay advice and > guidance is appreciated. Thanks. I strongly believe that any Raspberry Pi, even the 1st generation, can handle a single serial port at full speed with no problem. You /can/ do new if you want to deal with stocking issues. Or you can do used equipment for much less. To whit, I believe I have an old 1st generation Raspberry Pi that I'm not using in a case. I paid $10 for it. Add a USB to RS-232 serial adapter to it, configure some software, and you're off to the races at serial speeds. I'd even be willing to help configure the software and ship it to you. My wife would be happy to have some small amount of equipment leave the house. I'd be happy to see the system being used again. If you're interested, email me directly to discuss the particulars. Cover costs and effectively buy me a milk shake. ;-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============6775924514820271450==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 18:01:47 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:01:34 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41C0430F-9BD1-44E0-B925-233012902D15@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7138571960601044057==" --===============7138571960601044057== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 11:38 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > One easy way would be to plug in a USB to RS232 adapter into any old > Linux device, like a Pi. Another is to use an RS232 converter card > for the built-in UARTs. I don't know about the Pi, but I've used > such a device for the BeagleBone Black. I was thinking of the BeagleBone Black as another option. I personally have no experience with them. > A Telnet client is a standard tool; if it doesn't come pre-installed > it's just a matter of installing the relevant package. Yep. Configure things with DE-9 / DB-25 to 8P8C adapters, a la. Yost, and you've got a capable device. It could even be possible to configure the gateway device to inherently work both directions. Allow outbound connections /and/ inbound connections. The devil is in the details of configuring the software to do (at least) what you want it to do. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============7138571960601044057==-- From cclist@sydex.com Sun Jul 31 18:02:09 2022 From: Chuck Guzis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:02:00 -0700 Message-ID: <4eb92cc1-7013-c6ad-3032-238383e76b3e@sydex.com> In-Reply-To: <41C0430F-9BD1-44E0-B925-233012902D15@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3916837686786497662==" --===============3916837686786497662== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/31/22 10:38, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > =20 >=20 >> On Jul 31, 2022, at 1:50 AM, Ali via cctalk wrot= e: >> >>> I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this >>> nicely. >>> >> >> Yes, but it wouldn't be ready to go ;). I would need to find a raspberry p= i with a built in serial port and a flavor Linux already loaded on it plus co= nfiguration. There are plenty of SERVER devices out there (i.e. take data fro= m the serial console of a device and present it over the LAN via TCP/IP and a= ccessible by Telnet, SSH, even HTTP) so I am hoping someone has a client devi= ce as well. >=20 > One easy way would be to plug in a USB to RS232 adapter into any old Linux = device, like a Pi. Another is to use an RS232 converter card for the built-i= n UARTs. I don't know about the Pi, but I've used such a device for the Beag= leBone Black. >=20 > A Telnet client is a standard tool; if it doesn't come pre-installed it's j= ust a matter of installing the relevant package. >=20 Exactly--I have several Opi-PC and OpiZ devices here and they all run Debuian linux. Buf for one, they're "headless"--I control them via Telnet or SSH. Run off a 5VDC 'wall wart". No issues whatsoever. You can, of course add video and keyboard, but it's not strictly necessary. --Chuck --===============3916837686786497662==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 18:14:19 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:14:06 -0400 Message-ID: <2A4F3505-5B60-4CA6-ADDD-F5BDB9B99069@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2217566422837434081==" --===============2217566422837434081== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 31, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On 7/31/22 11:38 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> One easy way would be to plug in a USB to RS232 adapter into any old Linux= device, like a Pi. Another is to use an RS232 converter card for the built-= in UARTs. I don't know about the Pi, but I've used such a device for the Bea= gleBone Black. >=20 > I was thinking of the BeagleBone Black as another option. I personally hav= e no experience with them. It's like Pi, I believe, another ARM based Linux device. I started using the= BBB some years ago when the Pi was using a chip whose specs were secret. Su= pposedly that's been cured. The BBB is built on TI silicon that comes with a= downloadable 5000 page reference manual. There's a cost-reduced model called the BeagleBone Green which is just as goo= d for most purposes. It's what David Gesswein recommends for his MFM emulato= r. Adafruit is a good source of these things. Among other things they sell an R= S232 "cape" (the BB name for plugin option cards), which is an RS232 level co= nverter and DE9 connector that ties into one of the on-chip UARTs. Some year= s ago I built a variant that connects to all four UARTs, to make a 4 port mux= for PLATO terminals. The standard Linux is Debian, preloaded and of course you can install whateve= r else you want in the usual easy way.=20 paul --===============2217566422837434081==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 18:33:25 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:33:12 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2A4F3505-5B60-4CA6-ADDD-F5BDB9B99069@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0650513137282872082==" --===============0650513137282872082== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 12:14 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > It's like Pi, I believe, another ARM based Linux device. ACK > I started using the BBB some years ago when the Pi was using a chip > whose specs were secret. Supposedly that's been cured. The BBB > is built on TI silicon that comes with a downloadable 5000 page > reference manual. I can appreciate that desire ~ requirement. > There's a cost-reduced model called the BeagleBone Green which is > just as good for most purposes. It's what David Gesswein recommends > for his MFM emulator. ACK > Adafruit is a good source of these things. Among other things they > sell an RS232 "cape" (the BB name for plugin option cards), which > is an RS232 level converter and DE9 connector that ties into one of > the on-chip UARTs. Some years ago I built a variant that connects > to all four UARTs, to make a 4 port mux for PLATO terminals. "hat" "phat" "cape" The System on a Chip (SoC) ecosystem has it's own terms. None of them are hard after introduction. But they can be confusion inducing until introduction. > The standard Linux is Debian, preloaded and of course you can install > whatever else you want in the usual easy way. Now I wonder what I'm conflating. I was thinking of something else that's /not/ running Linux but frequently used for tings. AT Tiny? I barely know anything about the SoC ecosystem. I largely consider the Raspberry Pi and (now) the BeagleBone to be SFF SBCs that can do many things when I need device about the size of (a pair of) a deck of playing cards. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============0650513137282872082==-- From mark@markesystems.com Sun Jul 31 18:37:41 2022 From: mark@markesystems.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] HP 3000 system w/ Printers, Terminals, all working, for sale on eBay (or privately...) Possible Free Delivery! Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:31:11 -0700 Message-ID: <143981BAFF6B4C4AB9CFDB4D1D54CE25@Daedalus> In-Reply-To: <165928018902.2127582.1792743374982201324@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3270237708715608274==" --===============3270237708715608274== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just listed my complete HP-3000 system on eBay here. This is an HP-3000 917LX system with: Disks: (2) 2GB drive (possibly RAID, but I'm not sure) Tape: (2) DAT (built-in and external) 16-port terminal concentrator 12-port Ethernet hub Terminals (2) HP 700/96 + one 700/92 that probably doesn't work Line-printer 300 LPM with stand, ribbons, and paper Dot-matrix printers (2) with ribbons All cables MPE/iX, ASK/ManMan, QUERY, TurboIMAGE FORTRAN Documentation (50+ pounds, including all service and upgrade records) It all works perfectly (as of two days ago). There's a possibility that I might deliver it if you're near Portland OR or the San Francisco Bay area, or off the I-5 in between; otherwise it's local pickup only (in either location). It's listed for $2600 buy-it-now, or a starting bid of $2000, but if you're really interested email with an offer and we'll see what can be worked out... ~~ Mark Moulding --===============3270237708715608274==-- From mark@markesystems.com Sun Jul 31 18:37:54 2022 From: mark@markesystems.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port (Ali) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:16:47 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <165924632984.2127582.13485193799656799906@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5984060131968021825==" --===============5984060131968021825== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have recently come into possession of an actual physical terminal that > can > be connected to a device via a standard RS232 (serial) port, so far so > good. <...> > connected to one of these devices. This involves crawling around > connecting > the serial cable, doing what needs to be done, crawling back > disconnecting, > rinse and repeat. <..> > connected to the console server but other telnet accessible services as > all > the heavy lifting would be done on the bridge. I am ideally looking for a > ready to go, low power device, I can hide away as opposed to setting up a > PC > of my own running some *nix flavor that I know can do this but is way over > kill. Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. Thanks! What about one of these? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DWLS7DP $11.38, and provides four ports. If that's not enough, you could do a bi-level multiplex arrangement; 5 of these ($56.90) would provide 16 ports. Zero power requirements, no software configuration. If it were me, I might consider buying a two-pole rotary switch with enough positions and solder one up, but for less than 12 bucks, it's hard to beat this... ~~ Mark Moulding --===============5984060131968021825==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 19:29:02 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:28:56 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7989732887154372875==" --===============7989732887154372875== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 31, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: >=20 > ... > Now I wonder what I'm conflating. I was thinking of something else that's = /not/ running Linux but frequently used for tings. AT Tiny? AT Tiny is a microcontroller. =20 You may be thinking of Arduino, which is another family of small cheap embedd= ed computers with a complete ecosystem. Unlike Pi and BeagleBone, Arduino us= es a small RTOS. The original ones were AVR based; later ones use ARM. Eith= er way, a complete system might cost 10-20 dollars. Check our "Arduino Nano"= or "Adafruit Trinket". I used the latter in my LK201 keyboard emulators. =20 Yet another one is Raspberry Pico, which in spite of the name is nothing like= a Pi and doesn't run Linux. It's conceptually like Arduino but both more po= werful and less expensive. I built a DDCMP sync line controller out of one o= f those. Once again, not Linux but rather an RTOS. Neither of these come standard with Ethernet, though I've seen option cards. = In the case of Pico, it seems possible to do 10 Mb/s Ethernet in software us= ing its PIO controller, though I haven't made the atttempt. paul --===============7989732887154372875==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 19:52:13 2022 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:51:58 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004a01d8a49d$9cab1c70$d6015550$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0341409770992015161==" --===============0341409770992015161== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 10:23 PM Ali via cctalk wro= te: > > So I am wondering if there is a box that provides a telnet CLIENT to a > serial port device? I.E. a box smart enough that handles the telnet client, > LAN functions, and terminal emulations internally and then provides a text > based interface through a serial port that is compatible with my physical > terminal? That way my physical terminal would be connected to the RS232/LAN > bridge all the time and I could connected to not only the serial ports > connected to the console server but other telnet accessible services as all > the heavy lifting would be done on the bridge. I am ideally looking for a > ready to go, low power device, I can hide away as opposed to setting up a PC > of my own running some *nix flavor that I know can do this but is way over > kill. Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. Thanks! > You can do what I believe it is that you want with any Digi PortServer. I just verified this with one of the original Digi PortServer 16, 50000260 models. With that model you can configure a port device type as a "term", and when a terminal is attached to such a port it will connect to a command prompt. You can also configure a port device type as a "prn", which can be a general purpose outgoing port connection, not just a printer. From a "term" port command line, you can open an outgoing telnet connection to other hosts on the network, or to any other "prn" port on the local PortServer. Other hosts on the network can open telnet connections to the "prn" ports. Newer PortServer models may have different names for port device types, and different commands for connecting to ports on the local PortServer, but should still have those capabilities. If you look at an original PortServer, or PortServer II model on eBay, make sure the power adapter is included. They use a triple voltage 5-pin DIN connector power supply, which you wouldn't want to have to find separately. Newer PortServer models use single voltage power adapters, which would be easier to replace. Some PortServer models have built-in power supplies. How many ports total would you like to have? A 4-port or 8-port Digi terminal server can be found on eBay at reasonable prices in the US ($20 - $35 today for some models). You will almost always have to supply your own RJ45 - DB9/DB25 cables at additional cost. --===============0341409770992015161==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 20:13:54 2022 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Dec pdp 11 ultrix Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 20:13:52 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CDM6PR06MB55801BBEFDB6BD5E23144E37ED999=40DM6PR06MB?= =?utf-8?q?5580=2Enamprd06=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8102380587447123831==" --===============8102380587447123831== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would get it working on simH and then make an RL02 from the working image. PDP GUI is what I use for stuff like that. On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 11:00 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 7/29/22 10:53, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > I know you can run 7m as I have a couple of RL01 packs with 7m on them. > > You needed two drives. > > > > RSX11/M 4.2 would probably be the best OS for a 34. > > > > On 7/26/2022 11:52 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> Been a while since i last posted here. > >> > >> I have a few pdp 11/34 systems. The drives i am using are RL02 drives. > >> > >> Is it possible to install Ultrix on a 34? I have been testing out > >> Ultrix in > >> the simh emulator. I see during the install the 34 mentioned as a > >> recognized cpu type, but later in the install the system hangs. This > hang > >> does not occur if i emulate a later cpu system like the 11/83. > >> > >> Not sure if ultrix can be installed due to the memory limitation, if > not, > >> rsx will be my second choice. > >> > >> Hoping to have some real hardware running soon! > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Devin D. > > > I didn't try installing but I grabbed a couple RL02 images I > already had and booted an 11/34 with them so it will run. I > may try an install and see what happens. > > bill > > --===============8102380587447123831==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jul 31 20:18:08 2022 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 16:17:32 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6668907340566465513==" --===============6668907340566465513== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 31, 2022, at 3:45 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jul 31, 2022, 1:29 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Either way, a complete system might cost 10-20 dollars. Check our "Arduino= Nano" or "Adafruit Trinket". I used the latter in my LK201 keyboard emulato= rs.=20 >=20 > Are these available? If, what's the details? Open source designs, all the details are at https://github.com/pkoning2/lk201= emu (LK201 emulator) and https://github.com/pkoning2/ddcmp (DDCMP sync interf= ace). paul --===============6668907340566465513==-- From jbglaw@lug-owl.de Sun Jul 31 20:27:22 2022 From: Jan-Benedict Glaw To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 22:20:28 +0200 Message-ID: <20220731202028.h72p27rj2adjcnha@lug-owl.de> In-Reply-To: <004a01d8a49d$9cab1c70$d6015550$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2845140331803657880==" --===============2845140331803657880== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ali! On Sat, 2022-07-30 22:23:04 -0700, Ali via cctalk w= rote: > I am looking for some advice and recommendations on how to best go about > accomplishing the following: >=20 > I have recently come into possession of an actual physical terminal that can > be connected to a device via a standard RS232 (serial) port, so far so good. So there's two things. First, you need to get your devices connected somewhere (ie. servers, switches, whatever talks serial.) That can be done by anything with a number of serial ports (ie. using USB-serial adapters and some rfc2217 software. That will provide the "server" part so you could use telnet (or, even better, a rfc2217-aware terminal client) to connect to your serial console ports. Now there's the (physical) terminal you want to use. If you roll your own (USB-serial adapters), I *think* (never tried it) you'd be able to use `socat` to act as a TELNET/rfc2217 client on one side and relay that data to a serial port (where you can attach your glass terminal.) I don't know if rfc2217 is finally there in socat, but there were patches flying around (ie. http://www.dest-unreach.org/socat/contrib/socat-rfc2217.html). MfG, JBG --=20 --===============2845140331803657880==-- From leec2124@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 20:29:06 2022 From: Lee Courtney To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP 3000 system w/ Printers, Terminals, all working, for sale on eBay (or privately...) Possible Free Delivery! Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:28:26 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <143981BAFF6B4C4AB9CFDB4D1D54CE25@Daedalus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2358019663865443867==" --===============2358019663865443867== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mark, Have you ever replaced the TOD clock battery in your 917? The follow-on 918 had a field replaceable battery, but the 917 had one soldered onto the motherboard. *Very* nice system. I had one for a while and they are a great hobbyist box. Lee C. On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 11:37 AM Mark Moulding via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > I've just listed my complete HP-3000 system on eBay here. This is an > HP-3000 917LX system with: > > Disks: (2) 2GB drive (possibly RAID, but I'm not sure) > Tape: (2) DAT (built-in and external) > 16-port terminal concentrator > 12-port Ethernet hub > Terminals (2) HP 700/96 + one 700/92 that probably doesn't work > Line-printer 300 LPM with stand, ribbons, and paper > Dot-matrix printers (2) with ribbons > All cables > MPE/iX, ASK/ManMan, QUERY, TurboIMAGE > FORTRAN > Documentation (50+ pounds, including all service and upgrade records) > > It all works perfectly (as of two days ago). There's a possibility that I > might deliver it if you're near Portland OR or the San Francisco Bay area, > or off the I-5 in between; otherwise it's local pickup only (in either > location). It's listed for $2600 buy-it-now, or a starting bid of $2000, > but if you're really interested email with an offer and we'll see what can > be worked out... > ~~ > Mark Moulding > > -- Lee Courtney +1-650-704-3934 cell --===============2358019663865443867==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Sun Jul 31 20:43:21 2022 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:45:58 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2174124625261793438==" --===============2174124625261793438== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Jul 31, 2022, 1:29 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Either way, a complete system might cost 10-20 dollars. Check our > "Arduino Nano" or "Adafruit Trinket". I used the latter in my LK201 > keyboard emulators. > Are these available? If, what's the details? Warner --===============2174124625261793438==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 20:54:14 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:54:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01d8a51f$b3342d60$199c8820$@net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3Ci8-xIBlBQ13r168L8=5FlmfuBCkgdLarIvxbZPQwyOseaQw42I?= =?utf-8?q?hnA5rSRGXtEs27rM4NDE3g-P5oDgeWKSv3JYmBiMCeKpIKrrxL9W1DsGWfY=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4726195241095051032==" --===============4726195241095051032== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > You may of course choose to DIY but there have been several common and > cheaply-available-used solutions presented to you. The default behavior > of most terminal servers (single port or otherwise) is, "connect your > terminal, hit RETURN a few times, Telnet/rlogin/SSH/whatever to > whatever host you desire." Hi Jonathan, Can you expand on this? I am not sure how this is supposed to work out. So in= my scenario I have a dumb terminal connected to one of the suggested devices= . On the other side I have the out of band serial port controller for my RAID= connected to a terminal server like the Avocent. The Avocent is presenting t= he RAID controller as a telnet session. Now how is hitting REIURN a few times= on my dumb terminal going to bring up a telnet session much less a telnet se= ssion to the host I am interested in? Thanks. -Ali --===============4726195241095051032==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 20:55:12 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:55:14 -0700 Message-ID: <001501d8a51f$d5dcdba0$819692e0$@net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0752899223008459687==" --===============0752899223008459687== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > 1. If you want to connect an actual Serial Terminal to multiple hosts > the easiest thing to use is a DB-9 or DB-25 switch box. Something like > this: This would work if everything was in the same room. As the devices are in dif= ferent rooms and floors no joy there without running cable all throughout. >=20 > 2. If you want to be able to connect to multiple serial host over your > LAN one option would be to use any number of a myriad of multiple > serial > port to USB adapters. Something like that: ... =20 > Then you can VNC or RDP (Remote Desktop) into the PC and then > connect to the serial ports with a terminal emulator. >=20 > However, that does not allow you to use your serial terminal. Which as I pointed out in my original post was the whole point for this exerc= ise in futility.... LOL > 3. If you don't want to run RS-232 cables to your hosts you can use > this to connect them to your network using something like this: > https://www.amazon.com/CERRXIAN-Ethernet-Serial-Device- > Converter/dp/B087J9F6LF/ref=3Dsr_1_5?keywords=3Drs- > 232+to+ethernet&qid=3D1659281867&sprefix=3Drs-232+to+%2Caps%2C119&sr=3D8-5 > You connect to your hosts with any TCP/IP capable terminal > emulator. >=20 > However, that does not allow you to use your serial terminal. See above. Thanks. -Ali --===============0752899223008459687==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 21:07:46 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:07:33 -0600 Message-ID: <0fd10245-1886-c348-7334-9f2076647248@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: <000e01d8a51f$b3342d60$199c8820$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2571969783809475397==" --===============2571969783809475397== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 2:54 PM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Can you expand on this? I am not sure how this is supposed to work > out. So in my scenario I have a dumb terminal connected to one of the > suggested devices. On the other side I have the out of band serial > port controller for my RAID connected to a terminal server like the > Avocent. The Avocent is presenting the RAID controller as a telnet > session. Now how is hitting REIURN a few times on my dumb terminal > going to bring up a telnet session much less a telnet session to the > host I am interested in? Thanks. Hitting return a few times on the terminal will get the attention of the device; e.g. Raspberry Pi, that it's connected to. Depending on how said device is configured, you will either get a login prompt (e.g. getty+login) or a shell prompt (e.g. getty+shell). Then you will tell said device to connect to the RAID array's telnet/serial gateway. Nominally, this could be as simple as `telnet `. At least that's how I would configure things if I wanted to use a traditional (dumb) terminal to be able to connect to multiple remote devices. Talk to the serial /server/ and ask it to connect to the other device on your behalf. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============2571969783809475397==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Jul 31 21:49:56 2022 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 21:49:44 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0fd10245-1886-c348-7334-9f2076647248@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6354639019686002619==" --===============6354639019686002619== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > At least that's how I would configure things Yeah that's basically it. You can often assign aliases so that e.g. `CONNECT = RAID` executes a Telnet to a specific IP/DNS name, and many support setting u= p a default or automatic connection so that as soon as the terminal autobauds= it just connects to whatever the default is. All of this will require device-specific commands, but they're all similar an= d at this point basically support the same feature sets. Devices like the Lantronix UDS series also allow you to add a virtual COM por= t to your OS, so that you see /dev/ttyXX in *NIX (COMx in Windows) and when y= ou connect to it, you're really going out over Ethernet to the serial device. Thanks, Jonathan --===============6354639019686002619==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 21:56:04 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:56:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001601d8a528$56341b80$029c5280$@net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLWGwYyBGFIpjdtnQk7l4pqAXg7PWqwMVNPFlAKU2CDFZ1GnamR?= =?utf-8?q?k5dpmRS=5Fv7aSTaxY6SNLTH7L-WlidzrbnSGQtiORio4KDWGU9x-VAtv1g=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?glitchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7229368990715985583==" --===============7229368990715985583== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > Yeah that's basically it. You can often assign aliases so that e.g. > `CONNECT RAID` executes a Telnet to a specific IP/DNS name, and many > support setting up a default or automatic connection so that as soon as > the terminal autobauds it just connects to whatever the default is. >=20 > Devices like the Lantronix UDS series also allow you to add a virtual > COM port to your OS, so that you see /dev/ttyXX in *NIX (COMx in > Windows) and when you connect to it, you're really going out over > Ethernet to the serial device. Jonathan, When I looked at the manual for the Lantronix UDS1100 I did not see any menti= on of it being able to be used as Telnet client. However, if it can function = as you say that would be perfect. -Ali --===============7229368990715985583==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 21:56:08 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port (Ali) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:56:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001801d8a528$56954e50$03bfeaf0$@net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7005205841871392850==" --===============7005205841871392850== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > What about one of these? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DWLS7DP >=20 > $11.38, and provides four ports. If that's not enough, you could do a > bi-level multiplex arrangement; 5 of these ($56.90) would provide 16 > ports. >=20 Mark, Thanks. This would be a good solution if everything was in the same general a= rea. Plus as part of this project I want to get the devices "on the LAN" whic= h is actually the easy part. I can wire the hosts up to readily available co= nsole/terminal servers and they can be accessed from any device with telnet c= apability (e.g. my mobile phone on the road using VPN). The "fun" part for me= was to get an old style dumb terminal to work with the setup hence my origin= al question. That way I could have the dumb terminal on my desk or somewhere = convenient and show it off connecting to the different hosts. -Ali=20 --===============7005205841871392850==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 21:57:05 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:57:07 -0700 Message-ID: <002001d8a528$7add0690$709713b0$@net> In-Reply-To: <0fd10245-1886-c348-7334-9f2076647248@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5951194052434135020==" --===============5951194052434135020== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Hitting return a few times on the terminal will get the attention of > the > device; e.g. Raspberry Pi, that it's connected to. >=20 > Depending on how said device is configured, you will either get a login > prompt (e.g. getty+login) or a shell prompt (e.g. getty+shell). >=20 > Then you will tell said device to connect to the RAID array's > telnet/serial gateway. Nominally, this could be as simple as `telnet > `. >=20 > At least that's how I would configure things if I wanted to use a > traditional (dumb) terminal to be able to connect to multiple remote > devices. Talk to the serial /server/ and ask it to connect to the > other > device on your behalf. Grant, I agree that is exactly the behavior I want. However, none of the devices tha= t have been suggested seem to do that i.e. connecting a Lantronix UDS1100 to = the dumb terminal does not provide a usable telnet CLIENT interface. The devi= ce has been designed to act as a telnet SERVER to expose the host (i.e. RAID = Controller interface) to the outside via the telnet protocol. Again for most = uses this is all you need. You would then use whatever modern device you have= with a telnet client to connect to your device. I am throwing a monkey wrenc= h in it by trying to use a 1980s dumb terminal as my I/O device. :)=20 As we discussed any half decent system (a 486, SPARC, etc.) can provide the i= ntelligence to do this. I was hoping there was a purpose built box that could= be used in a turnkey manner and be hidden away out of sight for my use. Fail= ing that rolling a Pi system w/ serial HAT or a USB to RS232 adapter maybe th= e cheapest option as you suggested. -Ali --===============5951194052434135020==-- From lists@glitchwrks.com Sun Jul 31 22:08:31 2022 From: Jonathan Chapman To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 22:08:18 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001601d8a528$56341b80$029c5280$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5908694358528797074==" --===============5908694358528797074== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > When I looked at the manual for the Lantronix UDS1100 I did not see any men= tion of it being able to be used as Telnet client. PDF Page 54. You put it in manual CONNECT mode, modem emulation, and type "ATDT10.20.30.40= :23" on most modern Lantronix devices. I have no personal experience with the= UDS1100, but I've got the UDS10 and UDS100 devices kicking around the shop. Thanks, Jonathan --===============5908694358528797074==-- From amp1ron@gmail.com Sun Jul 31 22:28:42 2022 From: amp1ron@gmail.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:28:35 -0400 Message-ID: <007701d8a52c$dfe96a70$9fbc3f50$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBR-7lL23BS7TQ0dF8RfDuiR9dTFxQlkR-6Nv6ANdMAIXAXER9D?= =?utf-8?q?zWSpsrs8Q9uLYD9EXShYN9i9yQ479apu0js170yHEZR0S4uqtW4t6wYX4=3D=40gl?= =?utf-8?q?itchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7002258850355045247==" --===============7002258850355045247== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See https://www.longsteve.com/fixmybugs/vt220-terminal-meet-raspberry-pi/Con= nect for one person's write-up on how to connect a serial terminal to a Raspb= erry Pi, either through a USB to RS-232 adapter or to a Raspberry Pi's serial= pins via a TTL to RS-232 adapter. If you connect to a Pi's built in serial = port pins note that it's a 2-wire interface (ground, transmit, receive) with = no control signals supported so if you run at a high baud rate the terminal n= ot be able to keep up and could drop some characters from the display, but re= ally who can read text at even 9600bps (approx. 960 characters a second)? Al= so may sure if connecting to the Pi's serial port pins that you choose a TTL = to RS-232 adapter that uses 3.3V signal levels for transmit and receive. With a serial terminal connected to a raspberry Pi or other *nix system, you = can telnet from the Pi to other devices on your LAN. And see https://www.isticktoit.net/?p=3D1728 for some other ideas of things y= ou can do with a serial terminal connected to a *nix system like a Raspberry = Pi. There are plenty of other articles out there on the web on how to do this kin= d of thing. --===============7002258850355045247==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 22:30:59 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 16:30:46 -0600 Message-ID: <19c8da4f-6adb-5e64-931a-fa6dc8b8bda2@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: <002001d8a528$7add0690$709713b0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3885905275530905323==" --===============3885905275530905323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 3:57 PM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > I am throwing a monkey wrench in it by trying to use a 1980s dumb > terminal as my I/O device. :) It's not that big of a monkey wrench in and of itself. It just does mean that you're in the minority use case. :-( -- Welcome to the club. :-D > As we discussed any half decent system (a 486, SPARC, etc.) can provide > the intelligence to do this. I was hoping there was a purpose built > box that could be used in a turnkey manner and be hidden away out of > sight for my use. Failing that rolling a Pi system w/ serial HAT or > a USB to RS232 adapter maybe the cheapest option as you suggested. ;-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============3885905275530905323==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sun Jul 31 22:36:47 2022 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:36:43 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006c01d8a4ff$c48e3760$4daaa620$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7402768372752829933==" --===============7402768372752829933== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this >> nicely. > .... >> IMHO, the Raspberry Pi, et al. qualify here too. On Sun, 31 Jul 2022, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Well after looking around a bit last night and my Google fu failing to > provide anything worthwhile Grant may be right i.e. there is no device > that make a shell or a telnet client available to a terminal and I will > have to roll my own. I have absolutely no experience with Raspberry Pi > (or any of these mini embedded devices). Looking around it looks like a > box would set me back about $130 even if I can get all the parts: If you have no experience with such devices, then building this may seem daunting. OTOH, if you have sufficient familiarity with other systems (PC, Unix, Mac-OS, CP/M, Apple-DOS, TRS-DOS,...), . . . Setup a computer to do what you want. It doesn't meet one of your criteria of small, but, consider it to be temporary, ... Once you have SOMETHING doing exactly what you want, then replicate that device with the Raspberry Pi. Having a working system to model it after will eliminate the time pressure, identify most of the issues that will need to be addressed, and make it into an excellent learning exercise. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============7402768372752829933==-- From mark@markesystems.com Sun Jul 31 22:38:35 2022 From: mark@markesystems.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: HP 3000 system w/ Printers, Terminals, all working, for sale on eBay (or privately...) Possible Free Delivery! Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:36:05 -0700 Message-ID: <6A744331035D4298AA7E8DF0DF673B60@Daedalus> In-Reply-To: <165929868854.2127582.2154769594451474052@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8692119004494461967==" --===============8692119004494461967== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Subject: [cctalk] HP 3000 system w/ Printers, Terminals, all working, for sale on eBay (or privately...) Possible Free Delivery! > I've just listed my complete HP-3000 system on eBay here. This is an > HP-3000 917LX system with: Silly me - the link of course got stripped out in this text-only email. It's: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325286539219 ~~ Mark Moulding --===============8692119004494461967==-- From cctalk@ibm51xx.net Sun Jul 31 22:40:11 2022 From: Ali To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:40:11 -0700 Message-ID: <002101d8a52e$7eddbf90$7c993eb0$@net> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CBR-7lL23BS7TQ0dF8RfDuiR9dTFxQlkR-6Nv6ANdMAIXAXER9D?= =?utf-8?q?zWSpsrs8Q9uLYD9EXShYN9i9yQ479apu0js170yHEZR0S4uqtW4t6wYX4=3D=40gl?= =?utf-8?q?itchwrks=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5343786922622709511==" --===============5343786922622709511== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > When I looked at the manual for the Lantronix UDS1100 I did not see > any mention of it being able to be used as Telnet client. >=20 > PDF Page 54. >=20 > You put it in manual CONNECT mode, modem emulation, and type > "ATDT10.20.30.40:23" on most modern Lantronix devices. I have no > personal experience with the UDS1100, but I've got the UDS10 and UDS100 > devices kicking around the shop. Jonathan, Thanks. That definitely looks like it will do what I need. Not quite as elega= nt as I had hoped but workable. I am going to look at prices for these units = to see how much they are going for used on eBay. I am still interested in the Pi solution as well though as it provides more f= lexibility and could make for a slicker interface/solution (i.e. terminal cli= ent with a phone book) as it would run a full Linux system. I have to see wha= t I can cobble together! -Ali --===============5343786922622709511==-- From cc@alderson.users.panix.com Sun Jul 31 23:03:39 2022 From: Rich Alderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:46:15 -0400 Message-ID: <4LwxF32CSCzfYm@panix5.panix.com> In-Reply-To: <002001d8a528$7add0690$709713b0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6667856313411795255==" --===============6667856313411795255== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:57:07 -0700 > From: Ali via cctalk > I agree that is exactly the behavior I want. However, none of the devices > that have been suggested seem to do that i.e. connecting a Lantronix UDS1100 > to the dumb terminal does not provide a usable telnet CLIENT interface. The > device has been designed to act as a telnet SERVER to expose the host > (i.e. RAID Controller interface) to the outside via the telnet > protocol. Again for most uses this is all you need. You would then use > whatever modern device you have with a telnet client to connect to your > device. I am throwing a monkey wrench in it by trying to use a 1980s dumb > terminal as my I/O device. :) > As we discussed any half decent system (a 486, SPARC, etc.) can provide the > intelligence to do this. I was hoping there was a purpose built box that > could be used in a turnkey manner and be hidden away out of sight for my > use. Failing that rolling a Pi system w/ serial HAT or a USB to RS232 adapt= er > maybe the cheapest option as you suggested. What you have been describing, and what no one else seems to have twigged to, is what we called a TIP ("terminal interface processor") or EtherTIP (because it sat directly on the 3Mbit/10Mbit Ethernet, unlike the ARPANET TIPs that sat on a 56Kbit leased line). There were dozens of these scattered across the Stanford campus when I arrived there at the start of the autumn quarter. These were Cisco boxes (although they predated 'cisco Systems by a few years) configured with one or more RS-232 interface cards which IIRC supported 16 lines per card, and sat on the same Multibus backplane as the SUN-1 processor board which ran the Cisco software (later called "IOS") and the Ethernet interface card (which attached to the thicknet cables with a vampire tap). Later versions, of course, used thinnet (i.e. 10base2), and even later used 10baseT. The box was the same as the Cisco routers with the addition of serial cards. The user sitting at the dumb terminal typed a carriage return, the TIP woke u= p, and the user saw a prompt for a hostname on the command line. (Other commands were available, but the default was to treat any unrecognized command as a hostname.) The TIP would then open a telnet connection to the specified host, and the user would do whatever she wanted to on the remote box. Cisco still (I think) sells TIP-style boxes, although they are generally based on Catalyst designs, since Cisco's engineers were more concerned with making better routers after a while. You should be able to find a relatively inexpensive Catalyst type box on ePay. Put it on your LAN, hook your dumb terminal to it, and Robert's your male parental sibling. Rich --===============6667856313411795255==-- From cctalk@gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sun Jul 31 23:20:06 2022 From: Grant Taylor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:19:51 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4LwxF32CSCzfYm@panix5.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5381033115662605300==" --===============5381033115662605300== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/31/22 4:46 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: > What you have been describing, and what no one else seems to have > twigged to, is what we called a TIP ("terminal interface processor") > or EtherTIP (because it sat directly on the 3Mbit/10Mbit Ethernet, > unlike the ARPANET TIPs that sat on a 56Kbit leased line). There were > dozens of these scattered across the Stanford campus when I arrived > there at the start of the autumn quarter. I've not thought about the name "TIP" in a while. I'm used to associating it as a command in SunOS / Solaris for accessing something over the serial port. But I've normally heard these types of things referred to as a "terminal server". I believe that various makes & models of said terminal server class devices have been recommended multiple times in this thread. > These were Cisco boxes (although they predated 'cisco Systems by a few > years) configured with one or more RS-232 interface cards which IIRC > supported 16 lines per card, and sat on the same Multibus backplane as > the SUN-1 processor board which ran the Cisco software (later called > "IOS") and the Ethernet interface card (which attached to the thicknet > cables with a vampire tap). Later versions, of course, used thinnet > (i.e. 10base2), and even later used 10baseT. The box was the same > as the Cisco routers with the addition of serial cards. Interesting. Maybe I should allocate a Round Tuit to researching old historic Cisco. > The user sitting at the dumb terminal typed a carriage return, the TIP > woke up, and the user saw a prompt for a hostname on the command line. > (Other commands were available, but the default was to treat any > unrecognized command as a hostname.) The TIP would then open a telnet > connection to the specified host, and the user would do whatever she > wanted to on the remote box. This is still the behavior that I see on Cisco routers. 2500, 2600, 2800, etc. You can probably easily re-create this behavior over the AUX port and / or asynchronous serial interfaces in the router, e.g. 16 port NM. > Cisco still (I think) sells TIP-style boxes, although they are > generally based on Catalyst designs, since Cisco's engineers were > more concerned with making better routers after a while. You should > be able to find a relatively inexpensive Catalyst type box on ePay. > Put it on your LAN, hook your dumb terminal to it, and Robert's your > male parental sibling. I'd be afraid that such a traditional terminal server would be physically larger than desired and may cost more than something like an older Raspberry Pi, et al. Depending on the fans, there's a good chance that it would make more noise too. -- Grant. . . . unix || die --===============5381033115662605300==-- From gavin@learn.bio Mon Aug 1 01:09:44 2022 From: Gavin Scott To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:25:21 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7561726341844864506==" --===============7561726341844864506== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 2:29 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Yet another one is Raspberry Pico, > > Neither of these come standard with Ethernet, though I've seen option cards= . In the case of Pico, it seems possible to do 10 Mb/s Ethernet in software = using its PIO controller, though I haven't made the attempt. For an extra $1 now you can get integrated WiFi (and Bluetooth but there isn't any BT software support yet) in the form of the $5 Pi Pico W, so that's one route to talking to an IP network for IoT or something like this. A neat thing about the Pico is that you can do hard real-time interface protocols using its PIO (Programmable I/O) channels and DMA and still implement the whole thing in MicroPython. --===============7561726341844864506==-- From barythrin@gmail.com Mon Aug 1 01:49:01 2022 From: John Herron To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8898910263363774910==" --===============8898910263363774910== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may take the fun lan interface out of the equation but I would still think any serial switcher might work for you. Just leave the cables connected to the systems and the terminal and use switcher to change devices? --===============8898910263363774910==--