From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Wed Jun 1 00:10:05 2022 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 23:10:05 -0600 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: <20220601044858.96C7A40F235@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> References: <20220601044858.96C7A40F235@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Message-ID: On 5/31/22 10:48 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > If the stack that's installed is DECnet/DOS, then there are a few > docs on bitsavers. I'd guess that the command "C:\CJR" leads to the > stuff that loads the network stack and tries to set up the connections. I have zero experience with DECnet of any form ... yet. But it looks like the commands in the autoexec.bat file are loading keyboard / display drivers and not networking. I agree and think the c:\cjr command (batch file?) is probably where the network commands are coming from. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From imp at bsdimp.com Wed Jun 1 04:53:45 2022 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 03:53:45 -0600 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 10:08 PM Wayne S via cctech wrote: > I think Decnet can run over a serial connection (rs-232) if you have > Decnet software. It?s not medium dependent. I got it to work years ago from > vax-to-vax. I?m not aware of any pc decnet software although I haven?t > looked much into it. Should work over ethernet too. Do you have any Decnet > pc software? > The first PC version of DECnet was over serial. There's copies of it in bitsavers.org. The second version had ethernet support. There's copies of the IBM PC version of that software on bitkeepers, but not the DEC Rainbow version, alas. Then again, the Ethernet card for the DEC Rainbow is quite rare these days (I've not seen one in 15 years of looking), as is the software that describes how it was put together. http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/DEC/decnet/ is the archive. If you want ETHERNET, you should use the V2.0 or newer code. V1.1 was serial only. I believe the DEPCA was based on the venerable SONIC chipset, but it may have been the LANCE. It wasn't NE-2000 compatible (that came later) :). The Rainbow design supposed was quite similar, but I've only been able to find old review articles about it, nothing concrete. Warner > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 31, 2022, at 20:57, Bill Degnan via cctech > wrote: > > > > ?Here is a link to a set of screen shot of the autoexec.bat and > > config.sys for an IBM PC I came across today and the boot screen when > > these are attempted without the networking hardware attached.. > > > > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/IBM/5150/5150_DEC/ > > > > Specific to IBMPC to DECNET networking...anyone worked in this > > environment? Not me. I don't have the D drive that fails or the > > network, but I am curious what I would need to make this work. Maybe > > I can put something together. Anyone using a Digital Ethernet > > Personal Computer Bus Adapter today? > > > > The A drive had a jumper between 4-pin connectors 10 and 13 but it was > > not functional and I replaced the drive entirely. Not sure if I > > needed a 720K drive attached externally or something in order for the > > 5 1/4" drive jumpered this way to work. I have a pic of this there > > too. > > > > Weird. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > BIll > From paulkoning at comcast.net Wed Jun 1 08:50:44 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 09:50:44 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> > On Jun 1, 2022, at 5:53 AM, Warner Losh via cctech wrote: > > ... > I believe the DEPCA was based on the venerable > SONIC chipset, but it may have been the LANCE. It wasn't NE-2000 compatible > (that came later) :). LANCE seems plausible, or perhaps one of the later chips designed by DEC Jerusalem (SGEC etc.). What's a SONIC? The non-LANCE non-DEC Ethernets I remember are in the DEUNA (no idea what), QNA (Fujitsu???) and CNA (Intel 82586, *groan*). The LANCE was designed well, with a fair amount of DEC input, and the subsequent internally produced chips were constructed along similar lines. Once DEC learned how to make them at not quite insane cost, they became a very good choice and were generally used in DEC products. paul From glen.slick at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 09:38:25 2022 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 07:38:25 -0700 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> References: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 1, 2022, 6:52 AM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Jun 1, 2022, at 5:53 AM, Warner Losh via cctech < > cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > ... > > I believe the DEPCA was based on the venerable > > SONIC chipset, but it may have been the LANCE. It wasn't NE-2000 > compatible > > (that came later) :). > > LANCE seems plausible, or perhaps one of the later chips designed by DEC > Jerusalem (SGEC etc.). What's a SONIC? > > The non-LANCE non-DEC Ethernets I remember are in the DEUNA (no idea > what), QNA (Fujitsu???) and CNA (Intel 82586, *groan*). The LANCE was > designed well, with a fair amount of DEC input, and the subsequent > internally produced chips were constructed along similar lines. Once DEC > learned how to make them at not quite insane cost, they became a very good > choice and were generally used in DEC products. > > paul > The DEPCA did use the AMD Lance Am7990. > From g4ajq1 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 10:24:50 2022 From: g4ajq1 at gmail.com (Nigel Johnson Ham) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 11:24:50 -0400 Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images Message-ID: <207d30ac-753f-dfab-7dae-d1e20c2e2328@gmail.com> I have recently acquired my first ever RQDX3 and put it in a BA23 cabled to an RD53. Unfortunately the self-test light stays on, but I thought I would see how it responds anyway. The only thing I have on the system that can boot is an RX33 floppy and emulated TU58. I have all of AK6DN's posted TU58 images, and found ZRCD, which is for the RC25, and the controller passed the interrupt test, but then of course gets errors since it is not an RC25. I need ZRQC.? Does anybody know where I might get a TU58 image with it on? cheers, Nigel -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 From imp at bsdimp.com Wed Jun 1 09:49:36 2022 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 08:49:36 -0600 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> References: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 7:51 AM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On Jun 1, 2022, at 5:53 AM, Warner Losh via cctech < > cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > ... > > I believe the DEPCA was based on the venerable > > SONIC chipset, but it may have been the LANCE. It wasn't NE-2000 > compatible > > (that came later) :). > > LANCE seems plausible, or perhaps one of the later chips designed by DEC > Jerusalem (SGEC etc.). What's a SONIC? > SONIC was NatSemi part that a lot of workstations of the early 90s used. It does post-date LANCE by a few years. > The non-LANCE non-DEC Ethernets I remember are in the DEUNA (no idea > what), QNA (Fujitsu???) and CNA (Intel 82586, *groan*). The LANCE was > designed well, with a fair amount of DEC input, and the subsequent > internally produced chips were constructed along similar lines. Once DEC > learned how to make them at not quite insane cost, they became a very good > choice and were generally used in DEC products. > The LANCE and its children were nice chips. There's several DEPCAs for 8-bit ISA on ebay for about $50 (and a couple for a lot more), and as others have pointed out it is a variation of the Am7990. Warner From mjd.bishop at emeritus-solutions.com Wed Jun 1 18:11:47 2022 From: mjd.bishop at emeritus-solutions.com (Martin Bishop) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 23:11:47 +0000 Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images In-Reply-To: <207d30ac-753f-dfab-7dae-d1e20c2e2328@gmail.com> References: <207d30ac-753f-dfab-7dae-d1e20c2e2328@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7bf1b7fa04d349818ca8adce86bb059c@WINHEXBEEU125.win.mail> http://www.retrocmp.com/tools/pdp-11-diagnostic-database/202-pdp-11-diagnostics-database Has info on ZQRC binaries and .bic / .bin images - loading is of course XFU. The .bic image is (essentially) in absolute binary paper tape format, which may or may not help with loading. ZQRC has been extracted from the RL02 images which are up on BitSavers. Enjoy Martin -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk Sent: 01 June 2022 16:25 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images I have recently acquired my first ever RQDX3 and put it in a BA23 cabled to an RD53. Unfortunately the self-test light stays on, but I thought I would see how it responds anyway. The only thing I have on the system that can boot is an RX33 floppy and emulated TU58. I have all of AK6DN's posted TU58 images, and found ZRCD, which is for the RC25, and the controller passed the interrupt test, but then of course gets errors since it is not an RC25. I need ZRQC.? Does anybody know where I might get a TU58 image with it on? cheers, Nigel -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 From g4ajq1 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 18:26:41 2022 From: g4ajq1 at gmail.com (Nigel Johnson Ham) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 19:26:41 -0400 Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images In-Reply-To: <7bf1b7fa04d349818ca8adce86bb059c@WINHEXBEEU125.win.mail> References: <207d30ac-753f-dfab-7dae-d1e20c2e2328@gmail.com> <7bf1b7fa04d349818ca8adce86bb059c@WINHEXBEEU125.win.mail> Message-ID: <86d0396b-3b7b-8d95-29b6-eeba1a814028@gmail.com> Thanks, Martin.?? I will use? that info tomorrow! 73 Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-06-01 19:11, Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > http://www.retrocmp.com/tools/pdp-11-diagnostic-database/202-pdp-11-diagnostics-database > > Has info on ZQRC binaries and .bic / .bin images - loading is of course XFU. > > The .bic image is (essentially) in absolute binary paper tape format, which may or may not help with loading. > > ZQRC has been extracted from the RL02 images which are up on BitSavers. > > Enjoy > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk > Sent: 01 June 2022 16:25 > To:cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images > > I have recently acquired my first ever RQDX3 and put it in a BA23 cabled to an RD53. Unfortunately the self-test light stays on, but I thought I would see how it responds anyway. The only thing I have on the system that can boot is an RX33 floppy and emulated TU58. > > I have all of AK6DN's posted TU58 images, and found ZRCD, which is for the RC25, and the controller passed the interrupt test, but then of course gets errors since it is not an RC25. > > I need ZRQC.? Does anybody know where I might get a TU58 image with it on? > > cheers, > > Nigel > > > -- > Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! > Skype: TILBURY2591 > From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 23:11:39 2022 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:11:39 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> Message-ID: > > > ... > > > I believe the DEPCA was based on the venerable > > > SONIC chipset, but it may have been the LANCE. It wasn't NE-2000 > > compatible > > > (that came later) :). > > > > LANCE seems plausible, or perhaps one of the later chips designed by DEC > > Jerusalem (SGEC etc.). What's a SONIC? > > > > SONIC was NatSemi part that a lot of workstations of the early 90s used. It > does post-date LANCE by a few years. > > > > The non-LANCE non-DEC Ethernets I remember are in the DEUNA (no idea > > what), QNA (Fujitsu???) and CNA (Intel 82586, *groan*). The LANCE was > > designed well, with a fair amount of DEC input, and the subsequent > > internally produced chips were constructed along similar lines. Once DEC > > learned how to make them at not quite insane cost, they became a very good > > choice and were generally used in DEC products. > > > > The LANCE and its children were nice chips. > > There's several DEPCAs for 8-bit ISA on ebay for about $50 (and a couple > for a lot more), and as others have pointed out it is a variation of the > Am7990. > > Warner I found two in my inventory of related controllers. AM7990DC/80 When I added more RAM to the system to bring up to 512K and installed the DEPCA controller I was able to get the system to boot up and run the connection scripts that search for a DEC network and associated services. Alas, the network is long gone....I would have to attempt to recreate it! Anyway, I love that I was able to learn at least how a PC might be configured for such work. It would not be impossible at all to connect this PC to a VAX 4000 driven DECNET by editing the script with the correct names and services on both ends. Anyone here doing this kind of thing? Bill From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Jun 2 08:22:54 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:22:54 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: <1B297B4D-DEE9-4E65-A25B-386A52F17073@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8289C491-8C26-43F6-8C04-43EFE73351D9@comcast.net> > On Jun 2, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > ... > When I added more RAM to the system to bring up to 512K and installed > the DEPCA controller I was able to get the system to boot up and run > the connection scripts that search for a DEC network and associated > services. Alas, the network is long gone....I would have to attempt > to recreate it! Sounds like you're ready to put it on Hecnet. paul From p.gebhardt at ymail.com Thu Jun 2 09:22:44 2022 From: p.gebhardt at ymail.com (P Gebhardt) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:22:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Your pictures of a Tullamore pulse height analyzer on flickr References: <801207413.10159006.1654179764229.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <801207413.10159006.1654179764229@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Patrick, I came across your pictures of a Tullamore pulse heigh analyzer on flickr while looking for more information about these systems on internet. Did you possibly take more pictures of this unit which are not on flickr?? If so, then I'd be interested in these as more pictures can help me to fix my unit which has two missing front panels. Thanks in advance for any feedback! With kind regards, Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de From merrony.stephen at orange.fr Thu Jun 2 15:46:11 2022 From: merrony.stephen at orange.fr (Stephen Merrony) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 22:46:11 +0200 Subject: A Personal Milestone (Data General Emulation) Message-ID: I hope hope you don't mind me sharing a little personal milestone: today my long-winded attempt at a Data General AOS/VS emulator ran an original third-party program successfully for the first time. There are actually two closely-coupled emulators, one that attempts to emulate MV class hardware, and another that tries to provide a virtual AOS/VS environment. Due to the frustrating lack of freely available documentation and software for these machines which ceased production in the mid-1990s, I am now focusing on the AOS/VS emulator. Oh, the program that ran was OTHELLO, from the NADGUG (North American Data General User Group) games collection.? I lost the game :-/ If anyone is interested, the emulator status is here: https://github.com/SMerrony/dgemua/blob/main/STATUS.md Steve From rick at rickmurphy.net Thu Jun 2 21:09:13 2022 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 22:09:13 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/1/2022 12:49 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > No one ever called it a "Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus > Adapter", just a DEPCA. I never previously knew that there was any > meaning behind the DEPCA name. Yes, that's what it meant. "DELNI" - Digital Ethernet Local Network Interface. "DESTA" - Digital Ethernet Station Termination Adapter. DELQA - Digital? Ethernet Local Q-Bus Adapter (this one probably means something else. Working?). DEMPR - Multi Port Repeater. DEREP - Repeater.? And so forth. Yeah, nobody spelled it out, but those DExxx names usually meant what the device was. DEBNT, DEUNA, DEQNA. Same naming convention. I'm probably missing several. ??? -Rick From billdegnan at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 22:46:57 2022 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 23:46:57 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 10:09 PM Rick Murphy via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/1/2022 12:49 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > > No one ever called it a "Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus > > Adapter", just a DEPCA. I never previously knew that there was any > > meaning behind the DEPCA name. > > Yes, that's what it meant. "DELNI" - Digital Ethernet Local Network > Interface. "DESTA" - Digital Ethernet Station Termination Adapter. DELQA > - Digital Ethernet Local Q-Bus Adapter (this one probably means > something else. Working?). DEMPR - Multi Port Repeater. DEREP - > Repeater. And so forth. Yeah, nobody spelled it out, but those DExxx > names usually meant what the device was. DEBNT, DEUNA, DEQNA. Same > naming convention. I'm probably missing several. > -Rick > I ended up getting it all working. I found the DEPCA card I needed, the correct scripts now run, etc. I tore down my VAX cluster some time ago, I would need to set up a new one, change the scripts to match the services available and the names to continue with this project. BIll From mjkerpan at kerpan.com Thu Jun 2 16:34:31 2022 From: mjkerpan at kerpan.com (Michael Kerpan) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 17:34:31 -0400 Subject: A Personal Milestone (Data General Emulation) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very cool. Maybe this will cause some of the documentation and software that have been locked away in various private archives to finally shake loose! Mike On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 4:46 PM Stephen Merrony via cctech < cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I hope hope you don't mind me sharing a little personal milestone: today > my long-winded attempt at a Data General AOS/VS emulator ran an original > third-party program successfully for the first time. > > There are actually two closely-coupled emulators, one that attempts to > emulate MV class hardware, and another that tries to provide a virtual > AOS/VS environment. > > Due to the frustrating lack of freely available documentation and > software for these machines which ceased production in the mid-1990s, I > am now focusing on the AOS/VS emulator. > > Oh, the program that ran was OTHELLO, from the NADGUG (North American > Data General User Group) games collection. I lost the game :-/ > > If anyone is interested, the emulator status is here: > https://github.com/SMerrony/dgemua/blob/main/STATUS.md > > Steve > > From mooreericnyc at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 21:12:55 2022 From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:12:55 -0500 Subject: A Personal Milestone (Data General Emulation) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations! Data General is one big gap in my experience and collection, great to know someone is working hard emulating the OS :) -Eric On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 3:46 PM Stephen Merrony via cctech < cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I hope hope you don't mind me sharing a little personal milestone: today > my long-winded attempt at a Data General AOS/VS emulator ran an original > third-party program successfully for the first time. > > There are actually two closely-coupled emulators, one that attempts to > emulate MV class hardware, and another that tries to provide a virtual > AOS/VS environment. > > Due to the frustrating lack of freely available documentation and > software for these machines which ceased production in the mid-1990s, I > am now focusing on the AOS/VS emulator. > > Oh, the program that ran was OTHELLO, from the NADGUG (North American > Data General User Group) games collection. I lost the game :-/ > > If anyone is interested, the emulator status is here: > https://github.com/SMerrony/dgemua/blob/main/STATUS.md > > Steve > > From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Jun 2 23:36:42 2022 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 22:36:42 -0600 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of DEPCA, does anybody (a) know what kind of mouse connects (the docs just say DIGITAL MOUSE) and (b) know where to get one? Warner On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 9:47 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 10:09 PM Rick Murphy via cctalk > wrote: > > > > On 6/1/2022 12:49 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > > > No one ever called it a "Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus > > > Adapter", just a DEPCA. I never previously knew that there was any > > > meaning behind the DEPCA name. > > > > Yes, that's what it meant. "DELNI" - Digital Ethernet Local Network > > Interface. "DESTA" - Digital Ethernet Station Termination Adapter. DELQA > > - Digital Ethernet Local Q-Bus Adapter (this one probably means > > something else. Working?). DEMPR - Multi Port Repeater. DEREP - > > Repeater. And so forth. Yeah, nobody spelled it out, but those DExxx > > names usually meant what the device was. DEBNT, DEUNA, DEQNA. Same > > naming convention. I'm probably missing several. > > -Rick > > > > I ended up getting it all working. I found the DEPCA card I needed, > the correct scripts now run, etc. I tore down my VAX cluster some > time ago, I would need to set up a new one, change the scripts to > match the services available and the names to continue with this > project. > > BIll > From glen.slick at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 23:47:26 2022 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:47:26 -0700 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 9:36 PM Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of DEPCA, does anybody (a) know what kind of mouse connects (the > docs just say DIGITAL MOUSE) and (b) know where to get one? > > Warner > The usual VSXXX round mouse that is also used with VAXstations, either the ball version or the Hawley wheel version. > From p.gebhardt at ymail.com Fri Jun 3 00:29:55 2022 From: p.gebhardt at ymail.com (P Gebhardt) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 05:29:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Your pictures of a Tullamore pulse height analyzer on flickr In-Reply-To: <801207413.10159006.1654179764229@mail.yahoo.com> References: <801207413.10159006.1654179764229.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801207413.10159006.1654179764229@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1667622488.10514760.1654234195691@mail.yahoo.com> Apologies for the spam, folks, that message was supposed to be sent as a private one, and not via the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de >Am Donnerstag, 2. Juni 2022, 16:21:14 MESZ hat P Gebhardt via cctalk Folgendes geschrieben: > > >Hello Patrick, > >I came across your pictures of a Tullamore pulse heigh analyzer on flickr while looking for more information about these systems on internet. >Did you possibly take more pictures of this unit which are not on flickr?? If so, then I'd be interested in these as more pictures can help me to fix >my unit which has two missing front panels. > >Thanks in advance for any feedback! >With kind regards, >Pierre > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >http://www.digitalheritage.de From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Jun 3 07:16:59 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 08:16:59 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19FCD02D-0DE4-4543-9559-01EF306403FA@comcast.net> > On Jun 3, 2022, at 12:47 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 9:36 PM Warner Losh via cctalk > wrote: > >> Speaking of DEPCA, does anybody (a) know what kind of mouse connects (the >> docs just say DIGITAL MOUSE) and (b) know where to get one? >> >> Warner >> > > The usual VSXXX round mouse that is also used with VAXstations, either the > ball version or the Hawley wheel version. That's a serial (4800 bps UART) mouse, right? The protocol is documented; if all else fails you could create a converter for some other mouse type. I did that for keyboards; the same hardware with different firmware is likely to do the trick. I can't do it because I have nothing that would use such a mouse, though. paul From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Fri Jun 3 07:41:05 2022 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 08:41:05 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: <19FCD02D-0DE4-4543-9559-01EF306403FA@comcast.net> References: <19FCD02D-0DE4-4543-9559-01EF306403FA@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 6/3/22 08:16, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Jun 3, 2022, at 12:47 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 9:36 PM Warner Losh via cctalk >> wrote: >> >>> Speaking of DEPCA, does anybody (a) know what kind of mouse connects (the >>> docs just say DIGITAL MOUSE) and (b) know where to get one? >>> >>> Warner >>> >> >> The usual VSXXX round mouse that is also used with VAXstations, either the >> ball version or the Hawley wheel version. > > That's a serial (4800 bps UART) mouse, right? The protocol is documented; if all else fails you could create a converter for some other mouse type. I did that for keyboards; the same hardware with different firmware is likely to do the trick. I can't do it because I have nothing that would use such a mouse, though. > Is there a schematic anywhere for the hockey puck mice? bill From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Jun 3 07:46:50 2022 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 13:46:50 +0100 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 03/06/2022 03:09, Rick Murphy via cctalk wrote: > On 6/1/2022 12:49 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> No one ever called it a "Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus >> Adapter", just a DEPCA. I never previously knew that there was any >> meaning behind the DEPCA name. > > Yes, that's what it meant. "DELNI" - Digital Ethernet Local Network > Interface. "DESTA" - Digital Ethernet Station Termination Adapter. > DELQA - Digital? Ethernet Local Q-Bus Adapter (this one probably means > something else. Working?). DEMPR - Multi Port Repeater. DEREP - > Repeater.? And so forth. Yeah, nobody spelled it out, but those DExxx > names usually meant what the device was. DEBNT, DEUNA, DEQNA. Same > naming convention. I'm probably missing several. > ??? -Rick > The DEPCA manual (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/ethernet/depca/EK-DEPCA-PR-001_Apr89.pdf) says "DIGITAL Ethernet Personal Computer Adapter", without "Bus". DELQA was "DIGITAL Ethernet Local-Area-Network to Q-bus Adapter" according to its user guide. It's predecessor, the DEQNA, was "Digital ETHERNET Q-Bus Network Adapter", according to its user guide, or "broken", according to most people :-) Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio at acarlini.com From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Jun 3 07:50:30 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 08:50:30 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95E76072-ADE1-45A6-B386-0E4D70DE9DE1@comcast.net> > On Jun 3, 2022, at 8:46 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > > ... > It's predecessor, the DEQNA, was "Digital ETHERNET Q-Bus Network Adapter", according to its user guide, or "broken", according to most people :-) Yup. It went through 12 revisions, but even that last "rev L" didn't work, so DEC eventually gave up on it and produced the LQA. Which was a bit of a struggle because some aspects of the QNA API are tied to the original silicon, and emulating them on a very different Ethernet chip is somewhat messy. In particular that applies to the address filtering. paul From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Fri Jun 3 07:55:43 2022 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 08:55:43 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/3/22 08:46, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > On 03/06/2022 03:09, Rick Murphy via cctalk wrote: >> On 6/1/2022 12:49 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >>> No one ever called it a "Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus >>> Adapter", just a DEPCA. I never previously knew that there was any >>> meaning behind the DEPCA name. >> >> Yes, that's what it meant. "DELNI" - Digital Ethernet Local Network >> Interface. "DESTA" - Digital Ethernet Station Termination Adapter. >> DELQA - Digital? Ethernet Local Q-Bus Adapter (this one probably means >> something else. Working?). DEMPR - Multi Port Repeater. DEREP - >> Repeater.? And so forth. Yeah, nobody spelled it out, but those DExxx >> names usually meant what the device was. DEBNT, DEUNA, DEQNA. Same >> naming convention. I'm probably missing several. >> ??? -Rick >> > The DEPCA manual > (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/ethernet/depca/EK-DEPCA-PR-001_Apr89.pdf) > says "DIGITAL Ethernet Personal Computer Adapter", without "Bus". > > DELQA was "DIGITAL Ethernet Local-Area-Network to Q-bus Adapter" > according to its user guide. > > It's predecessor, the DEQNA, was "Digital ETHERNET Q-Bus Network > Adapter", according to its user guide, or "broken", according to most > people :-) > I see comments like this all the time but I used DEQNA, DELQA, DELUA and DEUNA for years with minimal problems. I think most of the complaints originate after more modern networking equipment showed up and people's expectations rose beyond the abilities of the technology. Like crashing systems by flooding network segments with traffic. bill From dab at froghouse.org Fri Jun 3 08:06:19 2022 From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 09:06:19 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/3/22 08:55, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > On 6/3/22 08:46, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> It's predecessor, the DEQNA, was "Digital ETHERNET Q-Bus Network >> Adapter", according to its user guide, or "broken", according to most >> people :-) >> > > I see comments like this all the time but I used DEQNA, DELQA, > DELUA and DEUNA for years with minimal problems. I too have wondered about these comments.? I know I wrote a driver for the DEQNA for the C Gateway and I don't recall having any particular difficulty with it.? It wasn't as good a programming interface as the Proteon Ringnet, for example, but everything was trending to becoming more complex at that point (like how programming the RK11 compares with MSCP).? The DQNA worked for me though and just kept on working. Dave From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Jun 3 08:07:09 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 09:07:09 -0400 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jun 3, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/3/22 08:46, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: >> On 03/06/2022 03:09, Rick Murphy via cctalk wrote: >>> On 6/1/2022 12:49 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >>>> No one ever called it a "Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus >>>> Adapter", just a DEPCA. I never previously knew that there was any >>>> meaning behind the DEPCA name. >>> >>> Yes, that's what it meant. "DELNI" - Digital Ethernet Local Network Interface. "DESTA" - Digital Ethernet Station Termination Adapter. DELQA - Digital Ethernet Local Q-Bus Adapter (this one probably means something else. Working?). DEMPR - Multi Port Repeater. DEREP - Repeater. And so forth. Yeah, nobody spelled it out, but those DExxx names usually meant what the device was. DEBNT, DEUNA, DEQNA. Same naming convention. I'm probably missing several. >>> -Rick >>> >> The DEPCA manual (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/ethernet/depca/EK-DEPCA-PR-001_Apr89.pdf) says "DIGITAL Ethernet Personal Computer Adapter", without "Bus". >> DELQA was "DIGITAL Ethernet Local-Area-Network to Q-bus Adapter" according to its user guide. >> It's predecessor, the DEQNA, was "Digital ETHERNET Q-Bus Network Adapter", according to its user guide, or "broken", according to most people :-) > > I see comments like this all the time but I used DEQNA, DELQA, > DELUA and DEUNA for years with minimal problems. I think most > of the complaints originate after more modern networking equipment > showed up and people's expectations rose beyond the abilities > of the technology. Like crashing systems by flooding network > segments with traffic. The QNA worked for some applications, but when Local Area VAXclusters appeared it became clear it wasn't good enough for that load. For that matter, one of the transceiver chips used at that time wasn't, either. DEC did a lot of work to try to make it right and could not. Of course, it always was the rule that the devices and systems must not fail under load, any load. That's why DEC bridges were designed for worst case loads. And when they couldn't actually forward under worst case load (as for the DECbridge-900, which would top out at about 2/3 of full 6 port wire rate), the design would ensure that critical control packets were always handled even under overload. We learned from the Cisco Bay Area meltdown, where those routers took down a chunk of the Internet by getting their high load scheduling rules wrong. An extreme example of bad hardware was the 3C501, which had a single buffer so it could never deal with back to back packets. The DECnet architecture group at one time was asked for protocol changes to accommodate that. Our answer amounted to "use correctly designed hardware". paul From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Jun 3 14:52:24 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 15:52:24 -0400 Subject: Announcing the Open SIMH project Message-ID: Announcing the Open SIMH project SIMH is a framework and family of computer simulators, initiated by Bob Supnik and continued with contributions (large and small) from many others, with the primary goal of enabling the preservation of knowledge contained in, and providing the ability to execute/experience, old/historic software via simulation of the hardware on which it ran. This goal has been successfully achieved and has for these years created a diverse community of users and developers. This has mapped to some core operational principles: First, preserve the ability to run old/historically significant software. This means functionally accurate, sometimes bug-compatible, but not cycle-accurate, simulation. Second, make it reasonably easy to add new simulators for other hardware while leveraging common functions between the simulators. Third, exploit the software nature of simulation and make SIMH convenient for debugging a simulated system, by adding non-historical features to the environment. Fourth, make it convenient for users to explore old system environments, with as close to historical interfaces, by mapping them to new features that modern host operating systems provide. Fifth, be inclusive of people and new technology. It's serious work, but it should be fun. Previously, we unfortunately never spent the time to codify how we would deliver on these concepts. Rather, we have relied on an informal use of traditional free and open-source principles. Recently a situation has arisen that compromises some of these principles and thus the entire status of the project, creating consternation among many users and contributors. For this reason, a number of us have stepped up to create a new organizational structure, which we call "The Open SIMH Project", to be the keeper and provide formal governance for the SIMH ecosystem going forward. While details of the structure and how it operates are likely to be refined over time, what will not change is our commitment to maintaining SIMH as a free and open-source project, licensed under an MIT-style license as shown on the "simh" repository page. It is our desire that all of the past users and contributors will come to recognize that the new organizational structure is in the best interests of the community at large and that they will join us in it. However, this iproject as defined, is where we intend to contribute our expertise and time going forward. At this point, we have in place the following, although we foresee other resources being added in the future as we identify the need and execute against them: A Github "organization" for the project at https://github.com/open-simh A Git repository for the simulators themselves at https://github.com/open-simh/simh The license for the SIMH simulator code base, found in LICENSE.txt in the top level of the "simh" repository. The "SIMH related tools" in https://github.com/open-simh/simtools. This is also licensed under MIT style or BSD style open source licenses (which are comparable apart from some minor wording differences). A "SIMH Steering Group" -- project maintainers and guides. The conventional git style process is used for code contributions, via pull request to the project repository. The Steering Group members have approval authority; this list is likely to change and grow over time. By formalizing the underlying structure, our operational principles and guidance can best benefit the community. These are being developed and formalized, with a plan to publish them soon. We have used our best judgment in setting up this structure but are open to discussion and consideration of other ideas, and to making improvements. Many of us have been part of different projects and understand that past mistakes are real. We have tried to learn from these experiences and apply the collected wisdom appropriately. We desire to hear from the community as we update and refine the operating structure for the Open SIMH project. We hope for your patience and look forward to your support as we work to refine the organization and be able to provide this wonderful resource for anyone to use as we continue to evolve the technology provided by the SIMH system. The SIMH Steering Group Clem Cole Richard Cornwell Paul Koning Timothe Litt Seth Morabito Bob Supnik From clemc at ccc.com Fri Jun 3 14:56:31 2022 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 15:56:31 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Announcing the Open SIMH project SIMH is a framework and family of computer simulators, initiated by Bob Supnik and continued with contributions (large and small) from many others, with the primary goal of enabling the preservation of knowledge contained in, and providing the ability to execute/experience, old/historic software via simulation of the hardware on which it ran. This goal has been successfully achieved and has for these years created a diverse community of users and developers. This has mapped to some core operational principles: First, preserve the ability to run old/historically significant software. This means functionally accurate, sometimes bug-compatible, but not cycle-accurate, simulation. Second, make it reasonably easy to add new simulators for other hardware while leveraging common functions between the simulators. Third, exploit the software nature of simulation and make SIMH convenient for debugging a simulated system, by adding non-historical features to the environment. Fourth, make it convenient for users to explore old system environments, with as close to historical interfaces, by mapping them to new features that modern host operating systems provide. Fifth, be inclusive of people and new technology. It's serious work, but it should be fun. Previously, we unfortunately never spent the time to codify how we would deliver on these concepts. Rather, we have relied on an informal use of traditional free and open-source principles. Recently a situation has arisen that compromises some of these principles and thus the entire status of the project, creating consternation among many users and contributors. For this reason, a number of us have stepped up to create a new organizational structure, which we call "The Open SIMH Project", to be the keeper and provide formal governance for the SIMH ecosystem going forward. While details of the structure and how it operates are likely to be refined over time, what will not change is our commitment to maintaining SIMH as a free and open-source project, licensed under an MIT-style license as shown on the "simh" repository page. It is our desire that all of the past users and contributors will come to recognize that the new organizational structure is in the best interests of the community at large and that they will join us in it. However, this iproject as defined, is where we intend to contribute our expertise and time going forward. At this point, we have in place the following, although we foresee other resources being added in the future as we identify the need and execute against them: A Github "organization" for the project at https://github.com/open-simh A Git repository for the simulators themselves at https://github.com/open-simh/simh The license for the SIMH simulator code base, found in LICENSE.txt in the top level of the "simh" repository. The "SIMH related tools" in https://github.com/open-simh/simtools. This is also licensed under MIT style or BSD style open source licenses (which are comparable apart from some minor wording differences). A "SIMH Steering Group" -- project maintainers and guides. The conventional git style process is used for code contributions, via pull request to the project repository. The Steering Group members have approval authority; this list is likely to change and grow over time. By formalizing the underlying structure, our operational principles and guidance can best benefit the community. These are being developed and formalized, with a plan to publish them soon. We have used our best judgment in setting up this structure but are open to discussion and consideration of other ideas, and to making improvements. Many of us have been part of different projects and understand that past mistakes are real. We have tried to learn from these experiences and apply the collected wisdom appropriately. We desire to hear from the community as we update and refine the operating structure for the Open SIMH project. We hope for your patience and look forward to your support as we work to refine the organization and be able to provide this wonderful resource for anyone to use as we continue to evolve the technology provided by the SIMH system. The SIMH Steering Group Clem Cole Richard Cornwell Paul Koning Timothe Litt Seth Morabito Bob Supnik ? From glen.slick at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 19:22:32 2022 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 17:22:32 -0700 Subject: IBM PC Connecting to DECNET In-Reply-To: References: <19FCD02D-0DE4-4543-9559-01EF306403FA@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 5:41 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > Is there a schematic anywhere for the hockey puck mice? Don't know if there is a VSXXX-AA mouse schematic anywhere. There is a DEPCA print set: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/ethernet/depca/MP02421_DEPCA_sch_May87.pdf Page 33 of the PDF has the DEPCA side of the mouse interface. 7-pin connector: (1) Ground (2) RX Data to DEPCA (goes to 9639 Dual Line Receiver) (3) TX Data from DEPCA (comes from 9636 Dual Line Driver) (4) -12V (5) +5V (6) +12V (7) N/C http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/ethernet/depca/EK-DEPCA-PR-001_Apr89.pdf DEPCA Hardware Reference Manual, EK-DEPCA-PR-001 Chapter 3, Mouse Information details the mouse communication protocol From bfr91 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 02:30:29 2022 From: bfr91 at yahoo.com (Hector Peraza) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 09:30:29 +0200 Subject: PL/M & CP/M In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <250d1075-ee0e-5401-7e37-159e2b8ed6eb@yahoo.com> On 5/31/2022 12:29 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > On 5/30/22 18:20, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> Are you talking about this? >> >> https://web.archive.org/web/20131110002247/http://www.nj7p.info/Common/Toys/Software/OS/work/IntelTools.zip >> >> >> (Courtesy of Mark Ogden) >> > > Not what I thought I was looking for but may turn out very > useful anyway.? I might be able to build a system and then > dis-assemble it to Z80 mnemonics.? In any event, it will > make fun reading. > > Thank you. > > bill > In the late 80's I disassembled a PL/M compiler I got in paper tape and ported it to CP/M. Then stored it in a cassette tape, then lost it, then about 8 years ago found it again and recovered it. The compiler had no indication whatsoever of who wrote it, but with the help of Mr. Emmanuel Roche from comp.os.cpm it's origin was traced back to Norsk Data's PL/Mycro compiler for their Mycro-1 8080 machine. It is a one-pass compiler (the key to its identification), appeared to be written directly in 8080 assembly, and produces hex or binary output. I never made it available anywhere, except for the copy I gave to Mr. Roche and IIRC to Mark Ogden too. Is that the one you mean? The only other PL/M compiler I know about that ran on 8-bit hardware, besides Intel's, was PLMX but I don't now the history behind it. Hector. From cclist at sydex.com Tue Jun 7 11:05:47 2022 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 09:05:47 -0700 Subject: PL/M & CP/M In-Reply-To: <250d1075-ee0e-5401-7e37-159e2b8ed6eb@yahoo.com> References: <250d1075-ee0e-5401-7e37-159e2b8ed6eb@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <21a83c32-7975-ba07-5156-adf348ed72e9@sydex.com> On 6/7/22 00:30, Hector Peraza via cctalk wrote: > In the late 80's I disassembled a PL/M compiler I got in paper tape and > ported it to CP/M. Then stored it in a cassette tape, then lost it, then > about 8 years ago found it again and recovered it. The compiler had no > indication whatsoever of who wrote it, but with the help of Mr. Emmanuel > Roche from comp.os.cpm it's origin was traced back to Norsk Data's > PL/Mycro compiler for their Mycro-1 8080 machine. It is a one-pass > compiler (the key to its identification), appeared to be written > directly in 8080 assembly, and produces hex or binary output. I never > made it available anywhere, except for the copy I gave to Mr. Roche and > IIRC to Mark Ogden too. Is that the one you mean? The only other PL/M > compiler I know about that ran on 8-bit hardware, besides Intel's, was > PLMX but I don't now the history behind it. > Back in the late 70s I sampled (for my employer) MP/M 1.0. One of the things that came with the OEM kit was DRI's PL/I compiler. I'd become acquainted with PL/I under DOS/360 and was surprised to see PL/I for 8 bit machines. What was most surprising was that it was a pretty complete D-level implementation on the 8080 (I ran it on 8085), including the preprocessor (I can recall wishing that C had a similarly capable preprocessor back then--not just a bunch of conditionals and the #define statement). I recall that DRI at the time was pushing its ISV program, with the hope that PL/I might be sufficiently platform-independent. --Chuck From 1297.dunfield at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 06:44:13 2022 From: 1297.dunfield at gmail.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 07:44:13 -0400 Subject: Selling: MITS Altair 8800 Message-ID: Selling my original 1975 "MITS Altair 8800", often described as the first "personal computer" (6 years before the "IBM PC"). A real piece of computing history! Complete and fully functional, this machine boots and runs a couple operating systems from the era. Includes: Main Altair 8800 system unit. Altair disk case with two Shugart SA-400 drives (1976) Multiple S-100 cards. Lear-Siegler ADM-3A terminal (1976) Dozens of 5.25" hard sector floppy diskettes! Original manuals and documentation. Jan+Feb 1975 Issues of "Popular Electronics" which featured the Altair. Also available: IMSAI 8080 (the first clone - also the "Wargames" computer) - 1975 North Star Horizon - 1976 Commodore PET 2001 - 1977 Two Tandy TRS-80 Model 1 - 1978 MicroMint SB-180 (by Steve Ciarcia of BYTE "Circuit Cellar") - 1985 More information and photos on "Daves Old Computers". Sorry, don't regularly follow this list anymore - contact me through my site. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom! From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue Jun 7 12:57:59 2022 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 17:57:59 +0000 Subject: PL/M & CP/M In-Reply-To: <21a83c32-7975-ba07-5156-adf348ed72e9@sydex.com> References: <250d1075-ee0e-5401-7e37-159e2b8ed6eb@yahoo.com> <21a83c32-7975-ba07-5156-adf348ed72e9@sydex.com> Message-ID: I'm relatively sure PL/M was written by Gary Kildall. I believe it was originally used on minis ( not sure which one ) but was later ported to the 8080 under ISIS. One might notice the similarities of ISIS to CP/M. Dwight ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 9:05 AM To: Hector Peraza via cctalk Subject: Re: PL/M & CP/M On 6/7/22 00:30, Hector Peraza via cctalk wrote: > In the late 80's I disassembled a PL/M compiler I got in paper tape and > ported it to CP/M. Then stored it in a cassette tape, then lost it, then > about 8 years ago found it again and recovered it. The compiler had no > indication whatsoever of who wrote it, but with the help of Mr. Emmanuel > Roche from comp.os.cpm it's origin was traced back to Norsk Data's > PL/Mycro compiler for their Mycro-1 8080 machine. It is a one-pass > compiler (the key to its identification), appeared to be written > directly in 8080 assembly, and produces hex or binary output. I never > made it available anywhere, except for the copy I gave to Mr. Roche and > IIRC to Mark Ogden too. Is that the one you mean? The only other PL/M > compiler I know about that ran on 8-bit hardware, besides Intel's, was > PLMX but I don't now the history behind it. > Back in the late 70s I sampled (for my employer) MP/M 1.0. One of the things that came with the OEM kit was DRI's PL/I compiler. I'd become acquainted with PL/I under DOS/360 and was surprised to see PL/I for 8 bit machines. What was most surprising was that it was a pretty complete D-level implementation on the 8080 (I ran it on 8085), including the preprocessor (I can recall wishing that C had a similarly capable preprocessor back then--not just a bunch of conditionals and the #define statement). I recall that DRI at the time was pushing its ISV program, with the hope that PL/I might be sufficiently platform-independent. --Chuck From g4ajq1 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 10:40:40 2022 From: g4ajq1 at gmail.com (Nigel Johnson Ham) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 11:40:40 -0400 Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images In-Reply-To: <7bf1b7fa04d349818ca8adce86bb059c@WINHEXBEEU125.win.mail> References: <207d30ac-753f-dfab-7dae-d1e20c2e2328@gmail.com> <7bf1b7fa04d349818ca8adce86bb059c@WINHEXBEEU125.win.mail> Message-ID: <61473abb-3905-2f17-75e3-290023fa670b@gmail.com> Unfortunately I can't get past that solid-on diagnostic LED.? I had hoped that it might have been re-purposed in a later rev level :-) Got all the ZRQ* binaries downloaded via simulated TU58 and they hang - funnily enough the old-rev ZRQA that I have on floppy reports the controller there and passes interrupt test before failing with 'no drive'.? I can also access the CSR using ODT. Not much more I can do without more tech data so I guess I am still looking for an MFM controller! I've been nursing a painful tooth infection so I might have missed something! 73 de Nigel ve3id Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-06-01 19:11, Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > http://www.retrocmp.com/tools/pdp-11-diagnostic-database/202-pdp-11-diagnostics-database > > Has info on ZQRC binaries and .bic / .bin images - loading is of course XFU. > > The .bic image is (essentially) in absolute binary paper tape format, which may or may not help with loading. > > ZQRC has been extracted from the RL02 images which are up on BitSavers. > > Enjoy > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk > Sent: 01 June 2022 16:25 > To:cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for DEC XXDP TU58 images > > I have recently acquired my first ever RQDX3 and put it in a BA23 cabled to an RD53. Unfortunately the self-test light stays on, but I thought I would see how it responds anyway. The only thing I have on the system that can boot is an RX33 floppy and emulated TU58. > > I have all of AK6DN's posted TU58 images, and found ZRCD, which is for the RC25, and the controller passed the interrupt test, but then of course gets errors since it is not an RC25. > > I need ZRQC.? Does anybody know where I might get a TU58 image with it on? > > cheers, > > Nigel > > > -- > Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! > Skype: TILBURY2591 > From emu at e-bbes.com Thu Jun 9 14:07:41 2022 From: emu at e-bbes.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 15:07:41 -0400 Subject: RTF/68K, Real Time Fortran, OS-9 Message-ID: Long shot, but it is quiet here ... There was this FORTRAN compiler, emitting 68k code for OS-9/68k. It was freely distributed, ran on VAX as a cross compiler or natively on the 68k. (was probably coming from University of Heidelberg, or CERN) Anybody has a copy of the sources etc? From john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net Fri Jun 10 13:17:23 2022 From: john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net (John Many Jars) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:17:23 +0100 Subject: ICL DRS M5 terminal Message-ID: <832518A6-1EE1-49F7-AF4D-AD6FEF56330E@yoyodyne-propulsion.net> Does anyone have any info on this terminal? I?ve spent hours searching I used to have a manual? I think my wife has put it away someplace From billdegnan at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 13:22:13 2022 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:22:13 -0400 Subject: ICL DRS M5 terminal In-Reply-To: <832518A6-1EE1-49F7-AF4D-AD6FEF56330E@yoyodyne-propulsion.net> References: <832518A6-1EE1-49F7-AF4D-AD6FEF56330E@yoyodyne-propulsion.net> Message-ID: are they not just VT220 or VT320 clones? On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:17 PM John Many Jars via cctalk wrote: > > Does anyone have any info on this terminal? I?ve spent hours searching > > I used to have a manual? I think my wife has put it away someplace > > > From ce.murillosanchez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 14:38:14 2022 From: ce.murillosanchez at gmail.com (Carlos Murillo) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:38:14 -0500 Subject: OT: mail provider recommendation Message-ID: My apologies for asking such an OT question, but I think you guys are the most likely to make really useful suggestions. Gmail has ceased to provide classic authorization for smtp, pop3 or IMAP access; they want users to employ their new authorization mechanisms. So, which email service do you guys recommend? I'd like to be able to access it in the old classic way, from different clients. Ideally it would be a free service (I don't store my messages on the server, but rather, download them to my client, so I don't need a lot of storage), and also likely to remain in operation for many years to come. Thanks in advance, Carlos Murillo. From jrr at flippers.com Sat Jun 11 00:44:44 2022 From: jrr at flippers.com (John Robertson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 22:44:44 -0700 Subject: OT: mail provider recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There ain?t no such thing as a free lunch! What did you think would happen with large free email hosts? They round up all the clients and then do what they like with them. Google mines emails for data. I use a private (paid) service via my web site host. I?ve been using it since around 1996. They haven?t changed much over the decades and they do NOT mine my emails! > On Jun 10, 2022, at 10:01 PM, Carlos Murillo via cctalk wrote: > > ?My apologies for asking such an OT question, but I think you guys are the > most likely to make really useful suggestions. > > Gmail has ceased to provide classic authorization for smtp, pop3 or IMAP > access; they want users to employ their new authorization mechanisms. So, > which email service do you guys recommend? I'd like to be able to access it > in the old classic way, from different clients. Ideally it would be a free > service (I don't store my messages on the server, but rather, download them > to my client, so I don't need a lot of storage), and also likely to remain > in operation for many years to come. > > Thanks in advance, > > Carlos Murillo. From spectre at floodgap.com Sat Jun 11 00:50:07 2022 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 22:50:07 -0700 Subject: OT: mail provider recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Gmail has ceased to provide classic authorization for smtp, pop3 or IMAP > access; they want users to employ their new authorization mechanisms. So, > which email service do you guys recommend? I'd like to be able to access it > in the old classic way, from different clients. Ideally it would be a free > service (I don't store my messages on the server, but rather, download them > to my client, so I don't need a lot of storage), and also likely to remain > in operation for many years to come. I used to be a self-hoster for my E-mail, but I've recently switched to Fastmail, and I've been fairly happy with it. It's not free, but it's not very expensive either. It offers both POP and IMAP as well as webmail and some useful privacy features (and my wife likes the fact they're Aussie, even if they're in Melbourne ;). I don't get a commission; I'm just a satisfied customer. My usual mail client is Thunderbird on Linux and macOS, but I see people using all kinds of clients with it. https://www.fastmail.com/pricing/ -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Computers are like air conditioners. They stop working if you open windows. From organlists1 at sonic.net Sat Jun 11 02:11:59 2022 From: organlists1 at sonic.net (Don R) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 00:11:59 -0700 Subject: OT: mail provider recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <848A7CDE-189A-4318-8E32-A3C7F397D962@sonic.net> If you are on the west coast, consider sonic.net Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On Jun 10, 2022, at 10:44 PM, John Robertson via cctalk wrote: > > ?There ain?t no such thing as a free lunch! > > What did you think would happen with large free email hosts? They round up all the clients and then do what they like with them. > > Google mines emails for data. > > I use a private (paid) service via my web site host. I?ve been using it since around 1996. > > They haven?t changed much over the decades and they do NOT mine my emails! > > >> On Jun 10, 2022, at 10:01 PM, Carlos Murillo via cctalk wrote: >> >> ?My apologies for asking such an OT question, but I think you guys are the >> most likely to make really useful suggestions. >> >> Gmail has ceased to provide classic authorization for smtp, pop3 or IMAP >> access; they want users to employ their new authorization mechanisms. So, >> which email service do you guys recommend? I'd like to be able to access it >> in the old classic way, from different clients. Ideally it would be a free >> service (I don't store my messages on the server, but rather, download them >> to my client, so I don't need a lot of storage), and also likely to remain >> in operation for many years to come. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Carlos Murillo. > From jwsmail at jwsss.com Mon Jun 20 18:58:24 2022 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 16:58:24 -0700 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains Message-ID: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> not sure what needs to be done either.? Maybe Jay's having problems with that.t Sending this along to see if my non google? related post goes thru. google folks apparently won't get it. thanks Jim From tshoppa at wmata.com Fri Jun 17 14:31:38 2022 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 19:31:38 +0000 Subject: Wednesday CWT logger survey - very biased and unscientific :-) Message-ID: A quick look-see at the 1900Z Wed 6/15/2022 "Contestonlinescore.com" page shows 89 folks reporting their real-time score, and even identifies what kind of logger was used to report the score. Of these 89 real-time score reporters, 86 were using N1MM+. And 3 were using DXlog. There were 389 scores reported to 3830 for the 1900Z session, and I think we have to regard the 89 folks doing real-time score reporting as a very self-selecting subset of those using loggers that were even capable of reporting scores. Tim N3QE From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 19:39:37 2022 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 20:39:37 -0400 Subject: BBS software for the PDP 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Necrobump! (I was searching for an email and came across this thread) In college, we ran CoSy under VMS. CoSy (Computer Conferencing System) started out under Unix on a PDP-11 and it looks like the source is available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoSy_(computer_conferencing_system) On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:45 PM devin davison via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software > to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize > the whole machine. > > Any suggestions? i have not had much luck finding anything. > > --Devin > -- -- Ryan Collins https://about.ryancollins.org/ From cube1 at charter.net Wed Jun 22 10:21:52 2022 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 10:21:52 -0500 Subject: IBM 1410 FPGA Update Message-ID: <8ce4dd78-141f-2b9a-8176-a4c47b72773b@charter.net> Resend (first one seems to have bounced) My FPGA implementation of the IBM 1410 Data Processing System continues to progress. There is now a console (with the console typewriter, keyboard, lights and switches) written in C# up on github. With that addition several things now work: - Address Set (including instruction counter) - Memory Display and Alter - Several instructions have been tried: set word mark, halt, add, subtract, jump on inquiry and unconditional jump Several issues remain, the most important of which are: - Addressing over 09999 is not working correctly - Console output with M%T0aaaaaW just endlessly repeats the first character (at address aaaaa) - no increment. github projects include: The C# SMS data gathering / entry / update application: https://github.com/cube1us/IBM1410SMS The FPGA implementation in VHDL: https://github.com/cube1us/IBM1410FPGA The newly added C# console application: https://github.com/cube1us/IBM1410Console A series of posts can be found from my website page at https://www.computercollection.net/index.php/ibm-1410-fpga-implementation/ From lyokoboy0 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 03:31:54 2022 From: lyokoboy0 at gmail.com (devin davison) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 04:31:54 -0400 Subject: BBS software for the PDP 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Much appriciated, thank you! Time flies, that post was made quite a while ago. This software looks interesting, thank you. I am working to set up an 11/34 at a museum, it would be intetesting to get this bbs software running hooked up to some dumb terminals. --Devin D. On Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 8:39 PM Ryan Collins wrote: > Necrobump! (I was searching for an email and came across this thread) > > In college, we ran CoSy under VMS. CoSy (Computer Conferencing System) > started out under Unix on a PDP-11 and it looks like the source is > available: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoSy_(computer_conferencing_system) > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:45 PM devin davison via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software >> to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize >> the whole machine. >> >> Any suggestions? i have not had much luck finding anything. >> >> --Devin >> > > > -- > > -- > Ryan Collins > https://about.ryancollins.org/ > From g4ajq1 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 15:56:52 2022 From: g4ajq1 at gmail.com (Nigel Johnson Ham) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> References: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <2652d30a-1317-0122-42af-b7ea1486ddcb@gmail.com> I received it on my gmail account, and? ieee.org, both hosted by google. cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-06-20 19:58, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > not sure what needs to be done either.? Maybe Jay's having problems > with that.t > > Sending this along to see if my non google? related post goes thru. > google folks apparently won't get it. > > thanks > Jim > From cclist at sydex.com Wed Jun 22 16:18:30 2022 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 14:18:30 -0700 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> References: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On 6/20/22 16:58, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > not sure what needs to be done either.? Maybe Jay's having problems with > that.t > > Sending this along to see if my non google? related post goes thru. > google folks apparently won't get it. gmail recently switched their security to OAuth2. The change was very sudden. --Chuck From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Wed Jun 22 16:53:18 2022 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:53:18 -0600 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: References: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <69e91983-0572-cd5e-b8fa-d48149e632b4@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 6/22/22 3:18 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > gmail recently switched their security to OAuth2. The change was > very sudden. I don't know how sudden it was. I see a post on a form that indicates that Google probably gave (at least) three months notice of the change. The post in question is dated March 4th citing May 30th. I also took Stephen's comment to be more related to email hygiene & filtering (DNS / SPF / DKIM / DMARC) than about the ability for his client to send (SMTP authentication). The OAuth2 / App Passwords would be related to sending (SMTP authentication), not inbound filtering (DNS / SPF / DKIM / DMARC). -- Grant. . . . unix || die From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Wed Jun 22 16:55:38 2022 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:55:38 -0600 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> References: <711164cd-b162-a627-e659-311b2927731f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On 6/20/22 5:58 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > I can't sent to gmail either with my domains What errors are you getting? Are you talking about trying to email people at Gmail directly or are you seeing problems with Gmail recipients not getting messages you send via a mailing list (cctalk or otherwise)? > not sure what needs to be done either.? Maybe Jay's having problems with > that.t It depends what the actual problem is that you're reporting. > Sending this along to see if my non google related post goes thru. > google folks apparently won't get it. Maybe, maybe not. It depends what the underlying problem is. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From frank at artair.com Wed Jun 22 17:18:10 2022 From: frank at artair.com (Frank) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:18:10 -0500 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ?Email sent from my personal domain to friends? gmail accounts started going to their spam folders several months ago. Adding SPF and DKIM DNS records for my domain allowed my emails to get delivered to their inboxes. Frank > On Jun 22, 2022, at 16:55, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > ?On 6/20/22 5:58 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: >> I can't sent to gmail either with my domains > > What errors are you getting? > > Are you talking about trying to email people at Gmail directly or are you seeing problems with Gmail recipients not getting messages you send via a mailing list (cctalk or otherwise)? > >> not sure what needs to be done either. Maybe Jay's having problems with that.t > > It depends what the actual problem is that you're reporting. > >> Sending this along to see if my non google related post goes thru. google folks apparently won't get it. > > Maybe, maybe not. It depends what the underlying problem is. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Wed Jun 22 17:22:00 2022 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:22:00 -0600 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0bc60415-85b4-5993-b59b-3468bb9fa1d2@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 6/22/22 4:18 PM, Frank via cctalk wrote: > ?Email sent from my personal domain to friends? gmail accounts > started going to their spam folders several months ago. Adding SPF > and DKIM DNS records for my domain allowed my emails to get delivered > to their inboxes. Yep. Gmail has been ratcheting up the requirements for people to successfully make it into their users inbox. Be that as it may, having valid SPF, DKIM, and DMARC really helps with making it to the inbox. Unfortunately, most mailing list configurations are somewhat hostile to one or more of these things. As such, many mailing lists are having more and more problems getting messages that they re-send into inboxes. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Jun 22 18:20:24 2022 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:20:24 -0700 Subject: I can't sent to gmail either with my domains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20220622162024.3240114d@asrock> Exactly what I found. Setting up correct SPF (I had done that a long while ago) and then several months ago correct correct DKIM DNS records. This action helped get my email domain "approved" per Google's "Postmaster Tools" https://postmaster.google.com/managedomains Google is doing their best to eliminate SPAM - in my experience, I receive an extremely small quantity of SPAM via gmail. I have email accounts with several other services (yahoo, sbcglobal (ATT), comcast, etc.) and I experience much more SPAM from each of them in spite of a well "tuned" spamassassin filter. Cheers, Lyle -- On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:18:10 -0500 Frank via cctalk wrote: > ?Email sent from my personal domain to friends? gmail accounts started going > to their spam folders several months ago. Adding SPF and DKIM DNS records > for my domain allowed my emails to get delivered to their inboxes. > > Frank > > > On Jun 22, 2022, at 16:55, Grant Taylor via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > ?On 6/20/22 5:58 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > >> I can't sent to gmail either with my domains > > > > What errors are you getting? > > > > Are you talking about trying to email people at Gmail directly or are you > > seeing problems with Gmail recipients not getting messages you send via a > > mailing list (cctalk or otherwise)? > >> not sure what needs to be done either. Maybe Jay's having problems with > >> that.t > > > > It depends what the actual problem is that you're reporting. > > > >> Sending this along to see if my non google related post goes thru. google > >> folks apparently won't get it. > > > > Maybe, maybe not. It depends what the underlying problem is. > > > > > > > > -- > > Grant. . . . > > unix || die -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From wpointon at earthlink.net Wed Jun 22 18:58:20 2022 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (xcvb) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 23:58:20 +0000 Subject: glad to see the list again Message-ID: <23d19cd6-f5c5-c923-be6d-6f0bd990ab3e@earthlink.net> its been dead for a week From wpointon at earthlink.net Wed Jun 22 18:58:20 2022 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (xcvb) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 23:58:20 +0000 Subject: glad to see the list again Message-ID: <23d19cd6-f5c5-c923-be6d-6f0bd990ab3e@earthlink.net> its been dead for a week From tdk.knight at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 21:07:28 2022 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 21:07:28 -0500 Subject: glad to see the list again In-Reply-To: <23d19cd6-f5c5-c923-be6d-6f0bd990ab3e@earthlink.net> References: <23d19cd6-f5c5-c923-be6d-6f0bd990ab3e@earthlink.net> Message-ID: indeed On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 6:58 PM xcvb via cctalk wrote: > its been dead for a week > From billdegnan at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 23:47:05 2022 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 00:47:05 -0400 Subject: IBM GPIB card use with MSC 9800? Message-ID: Here's a long shot....Anyone ever interfaced in IBM PC using the GPIB card to connect to a Microcomputer Systems Corporation MSC 9800? I understand that the MSC 9800 was intended for use with HP systems, but I was wondering if anyone has experience attaching to an IBM PC instead. The IBM General Purpose Interface Bus for IEEE 488 could in theory make the connection, right? BIll From wpointon at earthlink.net Sun Jun 26 17:35:24 2022 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (xcvb) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:35:24 +0000 Subject: is the list still up? Message-ID: <97b188a9-13d2-425d-b4b4-129ddb8c1d64@earthlink.net> it has been very quiet on here From cz at alembic.crystel.com Sun Jun 26 19:38:30 2022 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 20:38:30 -0400 Subject: is the list still up? In-Reply-To: <97b188a9-13d2-425d-b4b4-129ddb8c1d64@earthlink.net> References: <97b188a9-13d2-425d-b4b4-129ddb8c1d64@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yeah, it seems to have crashed a couple of weeks ago. Got some bounces myself on my repairs of a BA11-N power supply. I'll repost. C On 6/26/2022 6:35 PM, xcvb via cctalk wrote: > it has been very quiet on here From cz at alembic.crystel.com Sun Jun 26 19:46:19 2022 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 20:46:19 -0400 Subject: Repairs of an H786 power supply for a BA11-N Message-ID: Been working on fixing an old 11/03 system in a BA11-N chassis with an 18 bit 9273 backplane. The power supply was working at first with no issues, but when I left it on for a bit and came back it had blown the power supply fuse. Replacing fuse causes another blow, so something was most definitely wrong. First place to check was the primary side of the system. Fairly simple: Rectify AC to DC, then pass through a pair of BUY69A NPN transistors, then into a second transformer which goes to the various regulators. The main rectifier was not shorted and the transistors looked fine as well. Took the caps off to check them, no issues there either... So I found a copy of the H786 power supply schematics (used in the BA11-N series of pdp11 Q bus boxes). It's on page 290 in a big PDF scan of a bunch of MINC-11 documents that also include the RXV21, 11/03 CPU, and the like. File is MP00652MNC11SchematicsJul78.2761676314.pdf if you need to find it. Anyway, it also showed me another place where there could be a line AC short: There is of course a big rectifier that takes the 120v and turns it into big DC for the main switching transistors, but there is *also* a second little tiny rectifier buried in there that sources power for a "yes, 12v is there, start turning on the second stage regulator supplies". Sure enough it was shorted, ordered a replacement, put it in, and the power supply is working properly again. The other issue was that the power fail lines were being asserted. That's a sidecar board, removing it allowed everything to work properly. Which means a problem with one of the LM339 OP amp chips. So I pulled and replaced both and now that works as well. It's a fairly common unit, and now that these things are coming up on 40 years old the silicon in them is starting to go bad. That's not good, but they can be fixed... Fixing these things is never dull. Now on to fixing the MSV11-D memory board (2 bad 16k RAM chips) then the MiniMinc (which is basically a PDT11/150 with a different lid.) Not sure what that was used for, any ideas or thoughts? C CZ From mark.kahrs at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 08:34:03 2022 From: mark.kahrs at gmail.com (Mark Kahrs) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:34:03 -0400 Subject: Kinetic Systems 2920-Z2B. Message-ID: Anyone have one of these haunting their Q bus board pile? The LSSM would deadly like one. From billdegnan at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 09:25:48 2022 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:25:48 -0400 Subject: Kinetic Systems 2920-Z2B. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Deadly? On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 9:34 AM Mark Kahrs via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have one of these haunting their Q bus board pile? The LSSM would > deadly like one. > From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Jun 27 09:32:03 2022 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:32:03 -0500 Subject: Kinetic Systems 2920-Z2B. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23956a49-840c-d684-73ed-265c8506cd11@pico-systems.com> On 6/27/22 08:34, Mark Kahrs via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have one of these haunting their Q bus board pile? The LSSM would > deadly like one. OH MY!? I MIGHT have one, I'm pretty sure we had a 2922 at work, that will certainly never be used again.? I will look. Jon From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Mon Jun 27 09:52:12 2022 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:52:12 -0400 Subject: Repairs of an H786 power supply for a BA11-N In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4445fb5f-e01f-1005-8bfd-d4abdc56d0ef@comcast.net> On 6/26/2022 8:46 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Been working on fixing an old 11/03 system in a BA11-N chassis with an > 18 bit 9273 backplane. The power supply was working at first with no > issues, but when I left it on for a bit and came back it had blown the > power supply fuse. Replacing fuse causes another blow, so something > was most definitely wrong. > > First place to check was the primary side of the system. Fairly > simple: ?Rectify AC to DC, then pass through a pair of BUY69A NPN > transistors, then into a second transformer which goes to the various > regulators. The main rectifier was not shorted and the transistors > looked fine as well. Took the caps off to check them, no issues there > either... > > So I found a copy of the H786 power supply schematics (used in the > BA11-N series of pdp11 Q bus boxes). It's on page 290 in a big PDF > scan of a bunch of MINC-11 documents that also include the RXV21, > 11/03 CPU, and the like. File is > MP00652MNC11SchematicsJul78.2761676314.pdf if you need to find it. > > Anyway, it also showed me another place where there could be a line AC > short: There is of course a big rectifier that takes the 120v and > turns it into big DC for the main switching transistors, but there is > *also* a second little tiny rectifier buried in there that sources > power for a "yes, 12v is there, start turning on the second stage > regulator supplies". Sure enough it was shorted, ordered a > replacement, put it in, and the power supply is working properly again. > > The other issue was that the power fail lines were being asserted. > That's a sidecar board, removing it allowed everything to work > properly. Which means a problem with one of the LM339 OP amp chips. So > I pulled and replaced both and now that works as well. > > It's a fairly common unit, and now that these things are coming up on > 40 years old the silicon in them is starting to go bad. That's not > good, but they can be fixed... > > Fixing these things is never dull. Now on to fixing the MSV11-D memory > board (2 bad 16k RAM chips) then the MiniMinc (which is basically a > PDT11/150 with a different lid.) Not sure what that was used for, any > ideas or thoughts? > > C > > CZ I have an identical BA-11N setup and it still works (fingers crossed).? Your post is extremely helpful should something go wrong with the power supply.? The date code on the box is 1970-something. Doug From philip at axeside.co.uk Mon Jun 27 13:06:57 2022 From: philip at axeside.co.uk (Philip Belben) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:06:57 +0100 Subject: Free stuff in Somerset, England Message-ID: <57716fbf-cae7-a519-ac4e-20ad98039d03@axeside.co.uk> Dear all, The cost of living crisis means that I can no longer afford to rent the space to store all my collection. I have therefore decided to give some stuff away to anyone who will come and collect it. Some stuff is in a storage container in Wells; the rest is in my basement between Shepton Mallet and Radstock. (I will give you the actual address and instructions to find the place when we've agreed an appointment for you to visit.) As noted above, these addresses are in Somerset, England. The following stuff is definitely available. Visitors will also be welcome to look around my basement and ask for stuff. I don't guarantee to let it go, but I want to (a) empty the storage container and (b) make enough space in the basement that I can get at anything I want to work on, and work on it. DEC PDP11 stuff: A complete 11/10 system - processor box (in a 3U rack mount box - this is, I am told, unusual, but it is original), one expansion box, RKO5. All mounted in a later (1980s era) half height rack. (I gave the original full-height rack to Toby) An 11/34 processor box. Don't know whether I have all the innards. (No idea where it came from!) The remains of my 11/44 system. I bought the complete system - processor, expansion box, two RL02 drives, RX02 drive, RA80. I started buying stuff to add to it - tape drive, a couple of CDC multi-platter hard drives. I then sold a basic system - processor, one RL02 drive, RX02 drive, all in one rack - but have all the rest (except the RA80, which I gave to Tony Duell). So there's a lot of stuff, but probably not all the boards (no RL11, for example). But if anyone wants to build an 11/34 system from the bits, they're welcome to try! A number of DEC hex-height boards and other Unibus stuff. Probably some spare boards for the 11/10. And a couple of racks from the 11/44 system. Other stuff: A DEC VT100 with no keyboard a motherboard from an Alphastation (Rod Smallwood has first call on this - it was supposed to be in one of the alphastations I gave him years ago.) A Teletype 43 A Perq 2T2 in bits. It has no working monitor, but I think I can find all the other bots. A Silicon Graphics Personal Iris, also with no monitor, but I have found its keyboard and mouse, and some additional boards that may belong to it. an IBM "portable" PC, i.e. an XT with built-in monitor in a luggable case. Lots of DEC manuals - I've not sorted this box. A Calcomp 1039 plotter. Five HP Series 80 machines (85, 86, 87) and a box of manuals and accessories. (You are not allowed to take any accessories unless you take at least one system unit!) The other stuff in my basement was mostly acquired from car boot sales and clearouts at work in the 1990s and early 2000s, so there's a lot of 1980s micros there. I have several Commodore PETs of various flavours; I'm probably going to keep my first ever 2001, and an 8296, but most of the stuff in between can go. Please let me know if you are interested, and I can post photos and/or more detailed descriptions. If I don't get any interest, the CDC drives and probably the Calcomp plotter, will have to go to the tip. Everything is offered as seen. Most of it doesn't work. You have been warned. Finally, I have set up an e-mail address for you to reply to if you are interested: declutter at axeside.co.uk. I hope to spot replies to the list too, but it will help if you copy them to that address as well. Many thanks, Philip. From mjd.bishop at emeritus-solutions.com Mon Jun 27 16:11:42 2022 From: mjd.bishop at emeritus-solutions.com (Martin Bishop) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 21:11:42 +0000 Subject: Free stuff in Somerset, England In-Reply-To: <57716fbf-cae7-a519-ac4e-20ad98039d03@axeside.co.uk> References: <57716fbf-cae7-a519-ac4e-20ad98039d03@axeside.co.uk> Message-ID: <57477f7b089044ba86354a34af293bd9@WINHEXBEEU125.win.mail> Philip A kind offer of DEC stuff to those of us in the UK May I express an interest in things Q-bus, LSI-11 and paper tape : other than any PT stuff, primarily backplanes, CPUs, memory and serial cards. I'm looking for components for Q-bus test rigs. Storage hardware and interfaces I shall pass on. It will most likely be late July before I could come your way as although down in Dorset, I have a pacemaker bedding in and as it followed an episode of syncope another 3 weeks before I can drive again. Indeed it would probably be prudent to suggest early August. Best Regards Martin -----Original Message----- From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Philip Belben via cctech Sent: 27 June 2022 19:07 To: cctech at classiccmp.org; declutter at axeside.co.uk Subject: Free stuff in Somerset, England Dear all, The cost of living crisis means that I can no longer afford to rent the space to store all my collection. I have therefore decided to give some stuff away to anyone who will come and collect it. Some stuff is in a storage container in Wells; the rest is in my basement between Shepton Mallet and Radstock. (I will give you the actual address and instructions to find the place when we've agreed an appointment for you to visit.) As noted above, these addresses are in Somerset, England. The following stuff is definitely available. Visitors will also be welcome to look around my basement and ask for stuff. I don't guarantee to let it go, but I want to (a) empty the storage container and (b) make enough space in the basement that I can get at anything I want to work on, and work on it. DEC PDP11 stuff: A complete 11/10 system - processor box (in a 3U rack mount box - this is, I am told, unusual, but it is original), one expansion box, RKO5. All mounted in a later (1980s era) half height rack. (I gave the original full-height rack to Toby) An 11/34 processor box. Don't know whether I have all the innards. (No idea where it came from!) The remains of my 11/44 system. I bought the complete system - processor, expansion box, two RL02 drives, RX02 drive, RA80. I started buying stuff to add to it - tape drive, a couple of CDC multi-platter hard drives. I then sold a basic system - processor, one RL02 drive, RX02 drive, all in one rack - but have all the rest (except the RA80, which I gave to Tony Duell). So there's a lot of stuff, but probably not all the boards (no RL11, for example). But if anyone wants to build an 11/34 system from the bits, they're welcome to try! A number of DEC hex-height boards and other Unibus stuff. Probably some spare boards for the 11/10. And a couple of racks from the 11/44 system. Other stuff: A DEC VT100 with no keyboard a motherboard from an Alphastation (Rod Smallwood has first call on this - it was supposed to be in one of the alphastations I gave him years ago.) A Teletype 43 A Perq 2T2 in bits. It has no working monitor, but I think I can find all the other bots. A Silicon Graphics Personal Iris, also with no monitor, but I have found its keyboard and mouse, and some additional boards that may belong to it. an IBM "portable" PC, i.e. an XT with built-in monitor in a luggable case. Lots of DEC manuals - I've not sorted this box. A Calcomp 1039 plotter. Five HP Series 80 machines (85, 86, 87) and a box of manuals and accessories. (You are not allowed to take any accessories unless you take at least one system unit!) The other stuff in my basement was mostly acquired from car boot sales and clearouts at work in the 1990s and early 2000s, so there's a lot of 1980s micros there. I have several Commodore PETs of various flavours; I'm probably going to keep my first ever 2001, and an 8296, but most of the stuff in between can go. Please let me know if you are interested, and I can post photos and/or more detailed descriptions. If I don't get any interest, the CDC drives and probably the Calcomp plotter, will have to go to the tip. Everything is offered as seen. Most of it doesn't work. You have been warned. Finally, I have set up an e-mail address for you to reply to if you are interested: declutter at axeside.co.uk. I hope to spot replies to the list too, but it will help if you copy them to that address as well. Many thanks, Philip. From rice43 at btinternet.com Tue Jun 28 02:38:51 2022 From: rice43 at btinternet.com (Joshua Rice) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:38:51 +0100 (BST) Subject: Free stuff in Somerset, England In-Reply-To: <57716fbf-cae7-a519-ac4e-20ad98039d03@axeside.co.uk> References: <57716fbf-cae7-a519-ac4e-20ad98039d03@axeside.co.uk> Message-ID: <45789f24.195.181a93fae9d.Webtop.92@btinternet.com> Times like this make me wish i could drive... I'm not even that far away, just down from Bournemouth. I'd be very interested in the 11/10 and the VT100 though, if only i could figure out a way to collect them. Good luck to all anyway. And if anyone is going past Bournemouth on the way here, give me a shout :) ------ Original Message ------ From: "Philip Belben via cctalk" To: cctech at classiccmp.org; declutter at axeside.co.uk Sent: Monday, 27 Jun, 2022 At 19:06 Subject: Free stuff in Somerset, England Dear all, The cost of living crisis means that I can no longer afford to rent the space to store all my collection. I have therefore decided to give some stuff away to anyone who will come and collect it. Some stuff is in a storage container in Wells; the rest is in my basement between Shepton Mallet and Radstock. (I will give you the actual address and instructions to find the place when we've agreed an appointment for you to visit.) As noted above, these addresses are in Somerset, England. The following stuff is definitely available. Visitors will also be welcome to look around my basement and ask for stuff. I don't guarantee to let it go, but I want to (a) empty the storage container and (b) make enough space in the basement that I can get at anything I want to work on, and work on it. DEC PDP11 stuff: A complete 11/10 system - processor box (in a 3U rack mount box - this is, I am told, unusual, but it is original), one expansion box, RKO5. All mounted in a later (1980s era) half height rack. (I gave the original full-height rack to Toby) An 11/34 processor box. Don't know whether I have all the innards. (No idea where it came from!) The remains of my 11/44 system. I bought the complete system - processor, expansion box, two RL02 drives, RX02 drive, RA80. I started buying stuff to add to it - tape drive, a couple of CDC multi-platter hard drives. I then sold a basic system - processor, one RL02 drive, RX02 drive, all in one rack - but have all the rest (except the RA80, which I gave to Tony Duell). So there's a lot of stuff, but probably not all the boards (no RL11, for example). But if anyone wants to build an 11/34 system from the bits, they're welcome to try! A number of DEC hex-height boards and other Unibus stuff. Probably some spare boards for the 11/10. And a couple of racks from the 11/44 system. Other stuff: A DEC VT100 with no keyboard a motherboard from an Alphastation (Rod Smallwood has first call on this - it was supposed to be in one of the alphastations I gave him years ago.) A Teletype 43 A Perq 2T2 in bits. It has no working monitor, but I think I can find all the other bots. A Silicon Graphics Personal Iris, also with no monitor, but I have found its keyboard and mouse, and some additional boards that may belong to it. an IBM "portable" PC, i.e. an XT with built-in monitor in a luggable case. Lots of DEC manuals - I've not sorted this box. A Calcomp 1039 plotter. Five HP Series 80 machines (85, 86, 87) and a box of manuals and accessories. (You are not allowed to take any accessories unless you take at least one system unit!) The other stuff in my basement was mostly acquired from car boot sales and clearouts at work in the 1990s and early 2000s, so there's a lot of 1980s micros there. I have several Commodore PETs of various flavours; I'm probably going to keep my first ever 2001, and an 8296, but most of the stuff in between can go. Please let me know if you are interested, and I can post photos and/or more detailed descriptions. If I don't get any interest, the CDC drives and probably the Calcomp plotter, will have to go to the tip. Everything is offered as seen. Most of it doesn't work. You have been warned. Finally, I have set up an e-mail address for you to reply to if you are interested: declutter at axeside.co.uk. I hope to spot replies to the list too, but it will help if you copy them to that address as well. Many thanks, Philip. From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Tue Jun 28 11:58:21 2022 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:58:21 -0400 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter Message-ID: I have a couple of these boards but have never got into the on-board monitor which requires an adapter board that allows a terminal to talk to the controller board and do various things. Looking at the manual on bitsavers there is almost enough info to construct my own adapter board.? Has anyone ever built there own adapter to the controller? Doug From cz at alembic.crystel.com Tue Jun 28 12:23:39 2022 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:23:39 -0400 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3049d508-7dce-060b-282e-edeee41354a0@alembic.crystel.com> Hm, is it just a 5 to 12 volt adapter? You can do that with a max232 chip or just buy one. On 6/28/2022 12:58 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I have a couple of these boards but have never got into the on-board > monitor which requires an adapter board that allows a terminal to talk > to the controller board and do various things. > > Looking at the manual on bitsavers there is almost enough info to > construct my own adapter board.? Has anyone ever built there own adapter > to the controller? > > Doug > From healyzh at avanthar.com Tue Jun 28 12:33:42 2022 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 10:33:42 -0700 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84153F36-1B84-4DC8-97D9-F900263D3FE2@avanthar.com> On Jun 28, 2022, at 9:58 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > I have a couple of these boards but have never got into the on-board monitor which requires an adapter board that allows a terminal to talk to the controller board and do various things. > > Looking at the manual on bitsavers there is almost enough info to construct my own adapter board. Has anyone ever built there own adapter to the controller? > > Doug I seem to recall that it?s more than just a cable, I want to say there is some circuitry in there. Unfortunately I?m not sure where my adapter is at the moment. Zane From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Tue Jun 28 12:45:05 2022 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:45:05 -0400 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: <84153F36-1B84-4DC8-97D9-F900263D3FE2@avanthar.com> References: <84153F36-1B84-4DC8-97D9-F900263D3FE2@avanthar.com> Message-ID: On 6/28/22 13:33, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > On Jun 28, 2022, at 9:58 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: >> >> I have a couple of these boards but have never got into the on-board monitor which requires an adapter board that allows a terminal to talk to the controller board and do various things. >> >> Looking at the manual on bitsavers there is almost enough info to construct my own adapter board. Has anyone ever built there own adapter to the controller? >> >> Doug > > > I seem to recall that it?s more than just a cable, I want to say there is some circuitry in there. Unfortunately I?m not sure where my adapter is at the moment. > > Zane > > I haven't had a Viking board in decades but I thought it was the same connection as the DLV11-J. bill From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Tue Jun 28 13:29:14 2022 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:29:14 -0400 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> On 6/28/2022 12:58 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I have a couple of these boards but have never got into the on-board > monitor which requires an adapter board that allows a terminal to talk > to the controller board and do various things. > > Looking at the manual on bitsavers there is almost enough info to > construct my own adapter board.? Has anyone ever built there own > adapter to the controller? > > Doug > I wasn't clear about this.? The Viking board I have is a dual width q-bus board that connects SCSI? disk or tape devices VAXes or PDP11s using MSCP protocol.?? In the bitsavers manual on figure 8 is a drawing of the 'Serial Port Cable Adapter'.? Table 2 lists the pin-out of the 50 pin IDC connector and which lines are used for what signal.? In that list are these RS232 connections: IDC pin 20 -> CON TX (RS232) IDC pin 22 -> CON Rx (RS232) IDC pin 28 -> FP TX (RS232) IDC pin 30 -> FP TX (RS232) I was able to trace these IDC connections back to an ICL232 chip on the Viking board which is an RS232 driver chip. My question is which of these RS232 lines are brought out to the 'Serial Port Cable Adapter'?? Which ground do I use?? What do CON and FP stand for? I am trying to de-bug one of the boards and would like to get into the on-board monitor and see what it tells me about the board configuration. Doug From dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net Tue Jun 28 14:10:15 2022 From: dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:10:15 -0500 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> References: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> Message-ID: > On Jun 28, 2022, at 1:29 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/28/2022 12:58 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: >> I have a couple of these boards but have never got into the on-board monitor which requires an adapter board that allows a terminal to talk to the controller board and do various things. >> >> Looking at the manual on bitsavers there is almost enough info to construct my own adapter board. Has anyone ever built there own adapter to the controller? >> >> Doug >> > I wasn't clear about this. The Viking board I have is a dual width q-bus board that connects SCSI disk or tape devices VAXes or PDP11s using MSCP protocol. In the bitsavers manual on figure 8 is a drawing of the 'Serial Port Cable Adapter'. Table 2 lists the pin-out of the 50 pin IDC connector and which lines are used for what signal. In that list are these RS232 connections: > > IDC pin 20 -> CON TX (RS232) > > IDC pin 22 -> CON Rx (RS232) > > IDC pin 28 -> FP TX (RS232) > > IDC pin 30 -> FP TX (RS232) > > I was able to trace these IDC connections back to an ICL232 chip on the Viking board which is an RS232 driver chip. > > My question is which of these RS232 lines are brought out to the 'Serial Port Cable Adapter'? Which ground do I use? What do CON and FP stand for? > > I am trying to de-bug one of the boards and would like to get into the on-board monitor and see what it tells me about the board configuration. For the UDT at least the RS232 lines are regular RS232 and the plug I made for communicating with it was just an old PC serial pigtail bodged onto a short SCSI ribbon cable. I would expect CON to be CONfiguration port; No idea what FP is for. From healyzh at avanthar.com Tue Jun 28 14:21:33 2022 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:21:33 -0700 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: References: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> Message-ID: <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> On Jun 28, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: > > For the UDT at least the RS232 lines are regular RS232 and the plug I made for communicating with it was just an old PC serial pigtail bodged onto a short SCSI ribbon cable. > > I would expect CON to be CONfiguration port; No idea what FP is for. That?s good to know. If you have the actual adapter, it will work for both the Unibus and QBus boards. So what worked for use for a UDT, should work on a QBus board. Zane From imp at bsdimp.com Tue Jun 28 14:51:30 2022 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:51:30 -0600 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> References: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 1:21 PM Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > On Jun 28, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > For the UDT at least the RS232 lines are regular RS232 and the plug I > made for communicating with it was just an old PC serial pigtail bodged > onto a short SCSI ribbon cable. > > > > I would expect CON to be CONfiguration port; No idea what FP is for. > > That?s good to know. If you have the actual adapter, it will work for > both the Unibus and QBus boards. So what worked for use for a UDT, should > work on a QBus board > You may need to hook a scope to TX lines to know the right levels... Warner > From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Jun 28 16:02:32 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:02:32 -0400 Subject: Cross-tools Message-ID: I'm looking for cross tools for PDP11. I know of macro11, and have been feeding Olaf assorted fixes. I built my own LIBR (in Python, that was easy enough). So now I'm looking for LINK and TKB. I found this: https://github.com/nzeemin/pclink11 but it says no overlay support and may never happen. Are there others, and is there any overlay support? What about a cross-TKB? My hope is to be able to cross-build all of RSTS that is in assembly language. paul From imp at bsdimp.com Tue Jun 28 16:25:15 2022 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:25:15 -0600 Subject: Cross-tools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 3:03 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I'm looking for cross tools for PDP11. I know of macro11, and have been > feeding Olaf assorted fixes. > > I built my own LIBR (in Python, that was easy enough). > > So now I'm looking for LINK and TKB. I found this: > https://github.com/nzeemin/pclink11 but it says no overlay support and > may never happen. Are there others, and is there any overlay support? > > What about a cross-TKB? > > My hope is to be able to cross-build all of RSTS that is in assembly > language. > When I did the 2.11BSD restoration project, I used the apout emulator to run assemblers, linkers, etc. Are there any user-mode emulators that support RSTS/E system calls? Warner From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Jun 28 19:08:26 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 20:08:26 -0400 Subject: Cross-tools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jun 28, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 3:03 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I'm looking for cross tools for PDP11. I know of macro11, and have been feeding Olaf assorted fixes. > > I built my own LIBR (in Python, that was easy enough). > > So now I'm looking for LINK and TKB. I found this: https://github.com/nzeemin/pclink11 but it says no overlay support and may never happen. Are there others, and is there any overlay support? > > What about a cross-TKB? > > My hope is to be able to cross-build all of RSTS that is in assembly language. > > When I did the 2.11BSD restoration project, I used the apout emulator to run assemblers, linkers, etc. > > Are there any user-mode emulators that support RSTS/E system calls? Not that I know of, and most of the RSTS utilities are in PDP-11 assembly language. So I can run things on SIMH, of course, but cross-builds are much faster. Running the RSTS kernel and loader through the cross macro11 takes only about 8 seconds of CPU time. paul From imp at bsdimp.com Tue Jun 28 19:43:22 2022 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:43:22 -0600 Subject: Cross-tools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 6:08 PM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On Jun 28, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 3:03 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I'm looking for cross tools for PDP11. I know of macro11, and have been > feeding Olaf assorted fixes. > > > > I built my own LIBR (in Python, that was easy enough). > > > > So now I'm looking for LINK and TKB. I found this: > https://github.com/nzeemin/pclink11 but it says no overlay support and > may never happen. Are there others, and is there any overlay support? > > > > What about a cross-TKB? > > > > My hope is to be able to cross-build all of RSTS that is in assembly > language. > > > > When I did the 2.11BSD restoration project, I used the apout emulator to > run assemblers, linkers, etc. > > > > Are there any user-mode emulators that support RSTS/E system calls? > > Not that I know of, and most of the RSTS utilities are in PDP-11 assembly > language. So I can run things on SIMH, of course, but cross-builds are > much faster. Running the RSTS kernel and loader through the cross macro11 > takes only about 8 seconds of CPU time. > Yea, apout ran things in << 1s, so it flies by and is no where near the long pole in the scripts I wrote to reconstruct patches... There is a macro assembler and linker that run on V7 and later, but I don't think that will help you all that much (though it appears to have some vestiges of OBJ support, I've never tried to enable it). Warner Warner From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Jun 28 19:45:58 2022 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 20:45:58 -0400 Subject: Cross-tools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jun 28, 2022, at 8:43 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 6:08 PM Paul Koning > wrote: > > > > On Jun 28, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Warner Losh > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 3:03 PM Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm looking for cross tools for PDP11. I know of macro11, and have been feeding Olaf assorted fixes. > > > > I built my own LIBR (in Python, that was easy enough). > > > > So now I'm looking for LINK and TKB. I found this: https://github.com/nzeemin/pclink11 but it says no overlay support and may never happen. Are there others, and is there any overlay support? > > ... > There is a macro assembler and linker that run on V7 and later, but I don't think that will help you all that much (though it appears to have some vestiges of OBJ support, I've never tried to enable it). The key part I need is overlay support, since a number of the components are overlaid programs. paul From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Thu Jun 30 14:34:19 2022 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:34:19 -0400 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> References: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> Message-ID: Update -? I have 3 of these Viking controllers, 2 are rebadged to Alphatronix. 1. I was able to 'kludge' together jumpers to connect a laptop serial port to the controller.? Pin 20 IDC -> pin 2 DB-9, pin 22 IDC -> pin 3 DB-9 and pin 24 or 25 IDC -> pin 5 DB-9.? It didn't seem to matter if you used 24 or 25 for the ground. 2. The Alphatronix monitor program assumes a VT100 terminal and sends escape codes, the Viking didn't. 3. I was not able to start the monitor program if a disk was attached to the SCSI bus for either type of controller.? In this case it was a SCSI2SD V5.2. Here is what the Viking Monitor dialog looks like when you start it: Viking Model QDO, S/N 8546 ?Version A4.0, (C) 1989,90 TD Systems ?Type H for help >H To execute command, enter letter and return. ?DEL deletes last character. ?CTL-C aborts command and returns to prompt. ?XOFF/XON control console output. Command list: ?A? Abort MSCP tasks, reset SCSI ?C? Display configuration ?D? Display SCSI devices ?F? Format unit ?M? Mode sense/select ?P? Tape port monitor ?R? Read block ?S? SCSI command ?T? Test menu ?V? Verify unit ?W? Write block ?X? Cold start exit >C Host Adapter parameters: ? SCSI 7, SCSI reset ON, Disconnect ON, Defect Management ON, DMA burst= 4 PORT A = Disk server, Autoconfigure Here is one of the Alphatronix monitors report:? [I used this one on a PDP-11/53 to boot RT-11] TM IIIIIIII? NNN???? NN?? SSSSSSS?? PPPPPPP? IIIIIIII? RRRRRRRR EEEEEEEE ?? II???? NNNN??? NN? SS???? SS? PP??? PP??? II???? RR???? RR EE ?? II???? NN NN?? NN? SS???????? PP??? PP??? II???? RR???? RR EE ?? II???? NN? NN? NN?? SSSSSSS?? PPPPPPP???? II???? RRRRRRRR EEEEEE ?? II???? NN?? NN NN???????? SS? PP????????? II???? RR RR EE ?? II???? NN??? NNNN? SS???? SS? PP????????? II???? RR?? RR EE IIIIIIII? NN???? NNN?? SSSSSSS?? PP?????? IIIIIIII? RR???? RR EEEEEEEE ???????????????????? by ALPHATRONIX ???????????????????? by ALPHATRONIX Host Adapter S/N 11003 Firmware Version 1.51, (C) 1988, 89, 90, 91? ALPHATRONIX Inc. Licensed Material - Programs Property of ALPHATRONIX Inc. All Rights Reserved. Type M for menu. >m INSTALLATION COMMANDS 1? set/show configuration??????????? 2? show attached drives UTILITY COMMANDS C certify/format disk??????????????? V? write verify (currently OFF) MAINTENANCE COMMANDS 3? reset host adapter??????????????? 4? reset SCSI bus 5? read a block????????????????????? 6? write a block 7? multi-block read-only test??????? 8? single-block write-read test 9? low-level commands enter number of selected command ctrl-c aborts commands >1 Host Adapter parameters: ? SCSI 7, SCSI reset ON, Disconnect OFF, Defect Management ON, DMA burst= 4 PORT A = Disk server, Fixed configuration ? Unit 0: SCSI 0, Parity ON, Disconnect OFF, Defect Management ON ????????? Capacity (autosize), Media type RD54 ? Unit 1: SCSI 1, Parity ON, Disconnect OFF, Defect Management ON ????????? Capacity (autosize), Media type RD54 My questions at this point are: 1. Why can't I start the monitor is a disk is attached? 2. All of these boards are configured for a base CSR of 772150, standard MSCP hard disk DU.? The Viking and one of the Alphatronix boards work just fine with a SCSI2SD.? How do I get the other Alphatronix to work?? Swap ROMs? 3. Is there something about the actual RS232 adapter board that I don't know about that keeps the monitor and disks coexisting? 4. Should I try attaching the terminal to the FP port and see what happens?? Is it the 'secret' back door? Doug From glen.slick at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 15:05:41 2022 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:05:41 -0700 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: References: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:34 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Update - I have 3 of these Viking controllers, 2 are rebadged to > Alphatronix. > > 1. I was able to 'kludge' together jumpers to connect a laptop serial > port to the controller. Pin 20 IDC -> pin 2 DB-9, pin 22 IDC -> pin 3 > DB-9 and pin 24 or 25 IDC -> pin 5 DB-9. It didn't seem to matter if > you used 24 or 25 for the ground. > Did you split off the connections to Pin 20 and Pin 22 of the controller so that they only connected to the serial port, and not to the SCSI bus, or were they wired in parallel to both the serial port and the SCSI bus? From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Thu Jun 30 17:07:34 2022 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:07:34 -0400 Subject: Viking SCSI controller RS232 adapter In-Reply-To: References: <15006325-d151-d9cf-d355-9317ca571768@comcast.net> <92F2206E-609A-43FC-81CA-61AF8858A1CF@avanthar.com> Message-ID: <122c8e30-67ff-1bda-89aa-6bc379c3fb56@comcast.net> On 6/30/2022 4:05 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:34 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Update - I have 3 of these Viking controllers, 2 are rebadged to >> Alphatronix. >> >> 1. I was able to 'kludge' together jumpers to connect a laptop serial >> port to the controller. Pin 20 IDC -> pin 2 DB-9, pin 22 IDC -> pin 3 >> DB-9 and pin 24 or 25 IDC -> pin 5 DB-9. It didn't seem to matter if >> you used 24 or 25 for the ground. >> > Did you split off the connections to Pin 20 and Pin 22 of the controller so > that they only connected to the serial port, and not to the SCSI bus, or > were they wired in parallel to both the serial port and the SCSI bus? You're quite right.? I didn't isolate those signals from the SCSI bus.? That's what that adapter does, I'm sure. Come to think of it, I can access drives connected to the controller as long as the RS232 pins are left floating.? One of those lines does something that I'm not aware of.? A search tells me that pin 20 is a ground on the SCSI bus, 22 and 24 are not assigned. Geez, I'm beginning to think that they really didn't want you to do this.... Doug From bob099 at centurytel.net Thu Jun 30 17:42:50 2022 From: bob099 at centurytel.net (Bob Yates) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:42:50 -0500 Subject: The Generic Brand model Z-80 Expansion card - in original box at shopgoodwill.com Message-ID: <59023b78-de10-9dc9-0922-53503b08999c@centurytel.net> For an Apple II system.? Apple II? is not my interest. https://shopgoodwill.com/item/147146454 Decent pictures, well decent for Goodwill.