From johnhreinhardt at thereinhardts.org Sun Sep 1 11:45:18 2019 From: johnhreinhardt at thereinhardts.org (John H. Reinhardt) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 11:45:18 -0500 Subject: DecNet / Linux In-Reply-To: <70A863D2-D217-4AEA-BF07-95D278E85F53@forecast.name> References: <61500.92.70.5.67.1562159116.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> <9eb992f5-e016-abf8-d133-ad27b5c50a63@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <44472.10.10.10.2.1562178711.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> <4265BC9D-AC40-4B1F-AC65-753B43A48F3C@forecast.name> <70A863D2-D217-4AEA-BF07-95D278E85F53@forecast.name> Message-ID: On 8/31/2019 11:10 AM, John Forecast via cctalk wrote: > I finally got around to getting DECnet running on the latest release of Raspbian for the Raspberry Pi (the 2019-7-10 Buster release). I?ve also done some (very) limited testing on Debian Buster (both 32- and 64-bit x86 kernels). For anyone who is interested the code is available at: > > > > > John. > > > Thanks! Looking forward to trying it out. -- John H. Reinhardt From pechter at gmail.com Sun Sep 1 12:29:03 2019 From: pechter at gmail.com (William Pechter) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 13:29:03 -0400 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Re:Re: So what the heck did I just pick up? My guess is some type of interface between 1970's vintage Storage Technologies gear and some test equipment and the Tape subsystem. Perhaps a bus switch. The clue is the STC Red and Black property number on the back -- that mates the Storage Tek (then Storage Technologies Corp. colors in their early days... So it's either something they purchased or bought. The vintage look and 64 bit width makes me figure it was either some kind of tape bus switch/diag panel for manufacturing or field service use. 64 bits wide would be 2x32 bit word size. Perhaps they built a diag box that sat before the IBM channel to let them debug tape data transfers. The other thought is some kind of key to tape alternative keypunch system... Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! pechter-at-gmail.com ****** > From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Sep 1 12:55:26 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 10:55:26 -0700 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <071de9f0-398d-fa80-8daa-220d0cb0976a@bitsavers.org> On 9/1/19 10:29 AM, blahblahblah via cctalk wrote: > Perhaps they built a diag box that sat before the IBM channel to let them > debug tape data transfers. Perhaps you should read the replies before posting nonsense From aperry at snowmoose.com Mon Sep 2 11:27:44 2019 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 09:27:44 -0700 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech Message-ID: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> Is there a way to search all of cctalk and cctech? I found the archives, but that is split all of the postings in a given month. alan From aperry at snowmoose.com Mon Sep 2 11:35:17 2019 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 09:35:17 -0700 Subject: Info on testing vintage power supplies Message-ID: <82c28daf-667b-1937-07a7-28fee56b986c@snowmoose.com> Can anyone here provide a pointer to info on testing vintage power supplies? Search results on the web may eventually lead to the kind of info that I am looking for, but I have to get through too many pages of modern PC power supplies first. Specifically, I will be testing the power supplies in my Sun 3/260, which has 24V, 12V and 5V. I am wondering things like what is suitable loads and do I need to put a load on all three or can I test them one at a time and what I haven't thought of with regards to testing them. alan From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 2 11:56:25 2019 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 17:56:25 +0100 Subject: Info on testing vintage power supplies In-Reply-To: <82c28daf-667b-1937-07a7-28fee56b986c@snowmoose.com> References: <82c28daf-667b-1937-07a7-28fee56b986c@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 5:35 PM Alan Perry via cctech wrote: > > > Can anyone here provide a pointer to info on testing vintage power > supplies? Search results on the web may eventually lead to the kind of > info that I am looking for, but I have to get through too many pages of > modern PC power supplies first. > > Specifically, I will be testing the power supplies in my Sun 3/260, > which has 24V, 12V and 5V. I am wondering things like what is suitable > loads and do I need to put a load on all three or can I test them one at > a time and what I haven't thought of with regards to testing them. With most classic computer switch mode PSUs (which the one in a Sun 3/260 is), you need to load the main output. The other outputs don't _need_ loads, but it doesn't hurt to have them). For 99% of classic computer supples (and true for the Sun 3/260) the main output is the +5V one. I'd try to draw perhaps 5A from that. So a 6V car bulb of 30-odd watts. A 6V car headlamp bulb, for example. It's not critical Have that connected between the +5V output and ground (the 0V rail of the machine, not necessarily mains ground) for all tests on the supply. In other words, connect up the bulb, power up (the bulb should light), then measure the voltage between each output of the supply and ground. -tony From decguy at songdog.eskimo.com Mon Sep 2 13:01:35 2019 From: decguy at songdog.eskimo.com (Guy N.) Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 11:01:35 -0700 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> On Mon, 2019-09-02 at 09:27 -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > Is there a way to search all of cctalk and cctech? I found the archives, > but that is split all of the postings in a given month. > > alan One way is with Google: just include "site:classiccmp.org" in your search terms. From aperry at snowmoose.com Mon Sep 2 13:09:16 2019 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:09:16 -0700 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> Message-ID: On 9/2/19 11:01 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 2019-09-02 at 09:27 -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> Is there a way to search all of cctalk and cctech? I found the archives, >> but that is split all of the postings in a given month. >> >> alan > > One way is with Google: just include "site:classiccmp.org" in your > search terms. Cool. Thanks. From cclist at sydex.com Mon Sep 2 13:48:57 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:48:57 -0700 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> Message-ID: <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> On 9/2/19 11:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > > On 9/2/19 11:01 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote: >> On Mon, 2019-09-02 at 09:27 -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >>> Is there a way to search all of cctalk and cctech? I found the archives, >>> but that is split all of the postings in a given month. >>> >>> alan >> >> One way is with Google: just include "site:classiccmp.org" in your >> search terms. Anent that--Google does have a search language of sorts: https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advanced-search-operators/ These elements can reduce the eyestrain from looking at too many results. FWIW, --Chuck From commodorejohn at gmail.com Mon Sep 2 14:00:15 2019 From: commodorejohn at gmail.com (John Ames) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 12:00:15 -0700 Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 60, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > How about some pictures of what was inside. A picture that is atleast good > enough to see what is there. > Dwight I did also take a photo of the interior, though nothing you'd be able to read the chip designations on: http://www.commodorejohn.com/whatsit-interior.jpg My rough guesstimate is that the boards in the backplane are memory and I/O options (two of them have cables going to the back panel, the rest are apparently identical,) while the core functionality is on the large board on the left and the second large board below it (which is where the cable from the front panel go.) From bhilpert at shaw.ca Mon Sep 2 14:17:53 2019 From: bhilpert at shaw.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 12:17:53 -0700 Subject: Info on testing vintage power supplies In-Reply-To: <82c28daf-667b-1937-07a7-28fee56b986c@snowmoose.com> References: <82c28daf-667b-1937-07a7-28fee56b986c@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On 2019-Sep-02, at 9:35 AM, Alan Perry via cctech wrote: > Can anyone here provide a pointer to info on testing vintage power supplies? Search results on the web may eventually lead to the kind of info that I am looking for, but I have to get through too many pages of modern PC power supplies first. > > Specifically, I will be testing the power supplies in my Sun 3/260, which has 24V, 12V and 5V. I am wondering things like what is suitable loads and do I need to put a load on all three or can I test them one at a time and what I haven't thought of with regards to testing them. Regarding incandescent bulbs, 12V bulbs can be used on the +5. They tend to be cheaper and more readily available than 6V bulbs. Dual-filament tail-light-with-brake-light bulbs such as the 1034 and 1157 are common and inexpensive. The dual filaments allow for some load variation, the tail-light filament is lower current, the brake filament higher. Parallel a couple such bulbs (and the filaments) for more current. You don't have to buy sockets for them, you can solder wires to the base and contacts. Note the current draw is not a straight linear relationship with reduced voltage. At lower voltage they'll draw something more than the linearly-reduced current level. E.g. for the 1034: @ 5V @ 12V ----- ----- tail 0.35A 0.6A brake 1.2A 2.4A I don't know that you'll find any sort of generalised reference for your request. While some general rules may cover many models, the only way to be comprehensive over such a topic is to understand the principles and then look at the specific design of the supply one is dealing with. For switching supplies, usually only one of the outputs is actually regulated and the others will 'follow' in regulation (designed for a low enough source-impedance-to-load-impedance ratio that they'll be in range if the controlled output is in range). Sometimes lesser-current outputs actually have a linear regulator between the switching transformer and the output. From rtomek at ceti.pl Mon Sep 2 20:53:36 2019 From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 03:53:36 +0200 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> Message-ID: <20190903015336.GA1795@tau1.ceti.pl> On Mon, Sep 02, 2019 at 11:48:57AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: [...] > Anent that--Google does have a search language of sorts: > > https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advanced-search-operators/ > > These elements can reduce the eyestrain from looking at too many results. Many thanks. I suspected something like this document existed somewhere (and was lazily trying to find it), and here it is. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 21:37:57 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 19:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Anent that--Google does have a search language of sorts: > https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advanced-search-operators/ > These elements can reduce the eyestrain from looking at too many results. Q: WHY does GOOGLE.COM not have a comparable summary? From silent700 at gmail.com Mon Sep 2 22:41:15 2019 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 22:41:15 -0500 Subject: Wang PC Available in Seattle Area Message-ID: I have been contacted by a gentleman in the Seattle, WA area who would like to put a Wang PC240 system into the hands of a collector rather than see it scrapped. The system includes the custom Wang keyboard (with extra function keys and Wang "EXECUTE" key!), a 20MB half-height Seagate drive and 5.25" DD floppy drive. There is no monitor included but I believe it used a regular CGA signal. Manuals are included but no software. I have not seen the system and have no interest in its sale. Please direct all inquiries to Dave Felice at gelato321 at aol.com. -j From cclist at sydex.com Mon Sep 2 23:13:40 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 21:13:40 -0700 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> Message-ID: <1e6cc1bb-564b-26a7-b05a-91a704c34794@sydex.com> On 9/2/19 7:37 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 2 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> Anent that--Google does have a search language of sorts: >> https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advanced-search-operators/ >> These elements can reduce the eyestrain from looking at too many results. > > Q: WHY does GOOGLE.COM not have a comparable summary? Because the programmers for Google like to screw around. Don't believe me? Do a search for the word "askew". --Chuck From aap at papnet.eu Wed Sep 4 05:05:20 2019 From: aap at papnet.eu (Angelo Papenhoff) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 12:05:20 +0200 Subject: VCF Berlin In-Reply-To: <048a01d55f33$7234ee60$569ecb20$@gmail.com> References: <20190830083754.GA28288@indra.papnet.eu> <048a01d55f33$7234ee60$569ecb20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20190904100520.GA46121@indra.papnet.eu> On 30/08/19, Dave Wade wrote: > What are the opening times? I think I might manage a Sunday but don't arrive > at TXL until 10:55 Sorry for the delay. The opening times have now been added. 10:00h - 20:00h on saturday 10:00h - 17:30h on sunday aap From db at db.net Wed Sep 4 10:12:27 2019 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:12:27 -0400 Subject: Atari stuff Message-ID: <20190904151227.GA36570@night.db.net> Seeing as I do not have an ATARI 520 or 1040 any more I have some Atari related stuff to give away as one bundle. It's a PITA enough to package for me. Bundle is (roughly) Atari VHS tape 520 ST Instruction tape Flight simulator II pair of games (one of the disks is damaged :-( ) and Mark Williams C compiler all 5 disks. Let me know if you are interested. Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From db at db.net Wed Sep 4 10:15:36 2019 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:15:36 -0400 Subject: SRCI for MDS to give away Message-ID: <20190904151536.GB36570@night.db.net> I had planned on using this as a case for a project but then I noticed it still seems complete etc. and one of you lot *might* be interested. It's a blue metal steel box 30cm x 24cm x 6.4cm (I'll let you heathens work out Freedom units yourself) NWW Micro Systems on front panel marked Serial Remote Control Interface. Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From db at db.net Wed Sep 4 10:42:08 2019 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:42:08 -0400 Subject: Atari stuff In-Reply-To: <20190904151227.GA36570@night.db.net> References: <20190904151227.GA36570@night.db.net> Message-ID: <20190904154208.GA36898@night.db.net> On Wed, Sep 04, 2019 at 11:12:27AM -0400, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > Seeing as I do not have an ATARI 520 or 1040 any more I have some > Atari related stuff to give away as one bundle. It's a PITA enough > to package for me. > > Bundle is (roughly) > Atari VHS tape 520 ST Instruction tape > Flight simulator II > pair of games (one of the disks is damaged :-( ) > and Mark Williams C compiler all 5 disks. > > Let me know if you are interested. It has been spoken for. > > Diane > -- > - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From db at db.net Wed Sep 4 10:50:37 2019 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:50:37 -0400 Subject: Toshiba "laptop" Message-ID: <20190904155037.GA36980@night.db.net> Anyone collect these clunkers? Toshiba T6400DX Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Wed Sep 4 12:20:14 2019 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:20:14 -0600 Subject: SRCI for MDS to give away In-Reply-To: <20190904151536.GB36570@night.db.net> References: <20190904151536.GB36570@night.db.net> Message-ID: On 9/4/19 9:15 AM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > I'll let you heathens work out Freedom units yourself Please don't perform an ad hominem attack against people that effectively have no control over what unit their country uses. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From cclist at sydex.com Wed Sep 4 12:34:41 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 10:34:41 -0700 Subject: Toshiba "laptop" In-Reply-To: <20190904155037.GA36980@night.db.net> References: <20190904155037.GA36980@night.db.net> Message-ID: On 9/4/19 8:50 AM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > Toshiba T6400DX That's the orange plasma-display one, right? I suspect there will be several interested collectors over at vcfed.org. --Chuck From healyzh at avanthar.com Wed Sep 4 13:40:43 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 11:40:43 -0700 Subject: Toshiba "laptop" In-Reply-To: References: <20190904155037.GA36980@night.db.net> Message-ID: <016A5F2F-5C8D-409F-9E4B-23B439E66845@avanthar.com> > On Sep 4, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > On 9/4/19 8:50 AM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: >> Toshiba T6400DX > > > That's the orange plasma-display one, right? > > I suspect there will be several interested collectors over at vcfed.org. > > --Chuck I?m not sure, but I think at least Orange Plasma and Colour screens were options. Personally my goal was a T5200, and I?ve had one for a few years, but haven?t done anything with it. Zane From glen.slick at gmail.com Wed Sep 4 14:03:40 2019 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 12:03:40 -0700 Subject: SRCI for MDS to give away In-Reply-To: References: <20190904151536.GB36570@night.db.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 10:20 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 9/4/19 9:15 AM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > > I'll let you heathens work out Freedom units yourself > > Please don't perform an ad hominem attack against people that > effectively have no control over what unit their country uses. > > From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Sep 4 14:31:15 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 12:31:15 -0700 Subject: So what the heck did I just pick up? In-Reply-To: <20190831071607.GA39639@lagavulin> References: <20190831071607.GA39639@lagavulin> Message-ID: <46abc38a-3629-682d-713c-51369f803650@bitsavers.org> On 8/31/19 12:16 AM, Aaron Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I have something from the same company that sounds like it might be the same > type of device. It is an > > RS-670 40 MHz Digital Word Generator. > > Mine is obviously a decade or two newer. It includes a small CRT plus > keypad/keyboard and is a general purpose computer. It includes 32 output lines > (plus some misc) and the user can enter a program, either via floppy or by > manual entry on the front panel. That program is played back over the output > lines like a digital function generator. > > If you find any caches of manuals for Interface Technologies equipment, let me > know. I don't have a manual for mine. I just put up manuals on bitsavers for the model 660 From p.gebhardt at ymail.com Wed Sep 4 19:02:32 2019 From: p.gebhardt at ymail.com (P Gebhardt) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 00:02:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: SMD disks In-Reply-To: <728b1c18-7dce-8313-9635-13cdd144a2eb@bitsavers.org> References: <1133029944.88597.1567151418932@mail.yahoo.com> <728b1c18-7dce-8313-9635-13cdd144a2eb@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <65764266.4081176.1567641752678@mail.yahoo.com> Al,thanks a million for having uploaded the Super Eagle manual. I had been looking for a long time for it! Best regards,Pierre -----------------------------------------------------------------------------http://www.digitalheritage.de Am Freitag, 30. August 2019, 18:03:34 GMT-7 hat Al Kossow via cctalk Folgendes geschrieben: On 8/30/19 12:50 AM, P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote: > Talking about such drives, did anybody ever come across some manuals for the Super Eagles M2361A? Just uploaded it to bitsavers From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Sep 4 19:08:28 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 17:08:28 -0700 Subject: SMD disks In-Reply-To: <65764266.4081176.1567641752678@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1133029944.88597.1567151418932@mail.yahoo.com> <728b1c18-7dce-8313-9635-13cdd144a2eb@bitsavers.org> <65764266.4081176.1567641752678@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/4/19 5:02 PM, P Gebhardt wrote: > Al, > thanks a million for having uploaded the Super Eagle manual. I had been looking for a long time for it! > > Best regards, > Pierre you're welcome. I may have the original paper, if so i'll scan it at a higher resolution, the schematics are difficult to read at 400dpi. From ronan.scaife at dcu.ie Thu Sep 5 05:54:19 2019 From: ronan.scaife at dcu.ie (Ronan Scaife) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 11:54:19 +0100 Subject: pdp11/34s FTGH in Dublin Ireland Message-ID: <123c3525-06f5-3287-4239-a28d958a67f1@dcu.ie> Dear All (mainly UK and Ireland), We have a "lo-boy" DEC cabinet containing 2x pdp11/34a in half height boxes, and 2x RL02 drives. It is available for free to be collected in north Dublin, 5 miles from Dublin port. It is also about to be scrapped, so urgent action is required. Please contact ronan.scaife at dcu.ie. Best Wishes, -- -- ?This Email, and any files transmitted with it, are confidential, and are intended solely for use by the addressee. Any unauthorised dissemination, distribution or copying of this message and of any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the message. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and cannot be relied upon as being those of Dublin City University. Email communications such as this cannot be guaranteed to be virus-free, timely, secure or error-free, and we do not accept liability for any such matters or their consequences. Please consider the environment before printing this Email.? ==== Dr. Ronan Scaife =============== ronan.scaife at dcu.ie ========== School of Elec Eng, Dublin City University, Dublin 9, IRELAND. http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~scaifer/ phone (office): +353-1-700-5434 fax: +353-1-700-5508 ==================================================================== -- * *S?anadh R?omhphoist/Email Disclaimer* *T? an r?omhphost seo agus aon chomhad a sheoltar leis faoi r?n agus is lena ?s?id ag an seola? agus sin amh?in ?. Is f?idir tuilleadh a l?amh anseo.? * *This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for use by the addressee. Read more here. * * -- From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Sep 5 16:00:26 2019 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 17:00:26 -0400 Subject: Wanted: ATV Research Pixie-Verter Message-ID: <037301d5642c$f1e82840$d5b878c0$@verizon.net> Hi, For historical reasons (I'm starting to plan my VCF East 2020 exhibit) I'd like to get real ATV Research PXV-2A Pixie-Verter. I know that there were a lot of other RF modulators out there (I have a SUP "R" MOD II (that I might trade)) but I want this one in particular. Various S-100 boards and other vintage computer hardware available for trade or cash if necessary. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Sep 5 22:22:14 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 20:22:14 -0700 Subject: A fun patent to wrap your head around Message-ID: <34923e30-fbec-891a-23d2-c98bcb5b45b2@bitsavers.org> 5287534 "Correcting Crossover Distortion Produced When Analog Signal Thresholds Are Used To Remove Noise From Signal" It describes the DEC CXM04 board for the DS550 communications server, which inserts itself between an IBM establishment controller and a control unit (coax) terminal so the CUT can pretend it's a serial terminal to VAXen without dropping the polled connection to the IBM mainframe. weird.. From derschjo at gmail.com Thu Sep 5 23:22:06 2019 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 21:22:06 -0700 Subject: Seeking enlightenment regarding Bus Adapter Purges on Unibus VAXen (and their ilk) Message-ID: Hi all -- Been working on an MSCP implementation for Joerg Hoppe's Unibone project, and it's working well on PDP-11 systems; less well as of late on the VAX. I've been looking to tidy up a few dark corners in the MSCP spec and one thing that's left is bus adapter purges -- I have a pretty good grasp of Unibus mechanics these days but I'm not quite understanding the reasoning behind this. Here's what the Storage System Unibus Port Description (AA-L621A-TK) document says: "To support such higher-level protocol functions as transfer restarts, compares, etc., the host memory interface must allow repeated access to a given host memory location for both reads and writes. On purely Unibus systems such as 11/44, this requirement is trivially met with no participation by the host CPU. On systems with bus adapters such as the 11/780, the repeated access requirement means that the relevant adapter channel may have to be purged, requiring the active cooperation of the host CPU. The port signals its desire for an adapter channel purge by interrupting the host. The host writes zeroes to the SA register to indicate purge completion." This is also discussed, from the bus adapter point of view, in the technical documentation for the bus adapter itself. (See http://www.vaxhaven.com/images/2/29/EK-DW780-TD-001.pdf) It hasn't been particularly enlightening to me, but I will admit to not having read every page of this and the DW780 doc -- maybe I missed something :). I understand the mechanism here; in essence it's: 1) MSCP controller decides a purge is necessary after a DMA transfer and requests one by setting a value in a reserved slot in the communications area 2) Host system (MSCP driver) sees the special value, and issues a purge command to the bus adapter. 3) Host system then clears the value in the communications area 4) MSCP controller continues on its merry way. What I do not understand is (a) why such purges are necessary, and (b) how the MSCP controller knows when one should occur. The Port Description doc hints that it has to do with repeated access to a given area of memory. The DW780 documentation hints that it needs to happen after *any* block transfer. (See pg. 2-58 of the document linked above.) Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks! Josh From cmook1968 at gmail.com Thu Sep 5 09:03:54 2019 From: cmook1968 at gmail.com (Craig M.) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 10:03:54 -0400 Subject: ROLM - Dat general 1602 - AN/UYK-19 computers. Message-ID: Good Morning, Have you ever come across a document called the "Rolm I/O Designers Guide?" I am working with some developers trying to figure out the data words and how they work on a Navy AN/UYK-19 computer. Another note, saw an old query on the "Rolm Computers: 1602, 1602A, 1602B, 1666, MSExx (was Data General Nova Star Trek)" thread about breaking down the military system designations. This website may help if you never got an earlier answer: https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordpress/2015/05/27/whats-in-a-name-u-s-department-of-defense-an-nomenclature-made-easy/ Thank you! Craig Mook From useddec at gmail.com Fri Sep 6 02:27:04 2019 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 02:27:04 -0500 Subject: ROLM - Dat general 1602 - AN/UYK-19 computers. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We had a DG ROLM at my last base. Not Navy, but USAF. I don't remember which model, but it was a pretty reliable system. I have ideas, but not sure why we needed a ruggedised computer next to a potato field. On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 11:55 PM Craig M. via cctalk wrote: > Good Morning, > Have you ever come across a document called the "Rolm > I/O Designers Guide?" I am working with some developers trying to figure > out the data words and how they work on a Navy AN/UYK-19 computer. > > Another note, saw an old query on the "Rolm Computers: 1602, 1602A, 1602B, > 1666, MSExx (was Data General Nova Star Trek)" thread about breaking down > the military system designations. This website may help if you never got an > earlier answer: > > https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordpress/2015/05/27/whats-in-a-name-u-s-department-of-defense-an-nomenclature-made-easy/ > Thank you! > > Craig Mook > From matt at 9track.net Fri Sep 6 03:32:12 2019 From: matt at 9track.net (Matt Burke) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 09:32:12 +0100 Subject: Seeking enlightenment regarding Bus Adapter Purges on Unibus VAXen (and their ilk) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f0ff64e-1382-4bb7-896f-157c538a23e3@9track.net> On 06/09/2019 05:22, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > What I do not understand is (a) why such purges are necessary, and (b) how > the MSCP controller knows when one should occur. The Port Description doc > hints that it has to do with repeated access to a given area of memory. > The DW780 documentation hints that it needs to happen after *any* block > transfer. (See pg. 2-58 of the document linked above.) > > I think point 3 and 4 on page 2-59 are critical here. The memory accesses via the buffered data path must be to consecutive increasing addresses. If a non-consecutive access is required (transfer restart, compare etc) then the data path must be purged first. In the case of a write this will flush any residual bytes to memory and for a read it will ensure that fresh data is loaded to the buffer on the next access. At least that's my interpretation from reading 2.6.2.2 I'm not sure if the adapter needs to request the purge at the end of each block transfer. The driver may do this anyway but I'll have to check the source listings. Matt From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Sep 6 11:33:37 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 09:33:37 -0700 Subject: Seeking enlightenment regarding Bus Adapter Purges on Unibus VAXen (and their ilk) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5156d06a-d03d-6efb-519f-b74edd58910b@bitsavers.org> On 9/5/19 9:22 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > I have a pretty good grasp of > Unibus mechanics these days but I'm not quite understanding the reasoning > behind this. Here's what the Storage System Unibus Port Description > (AA-L621A-TK) document says: you might also want to ask on the simh developers list From technoid6502 at gmail.com Fri Sep 6 13:10:45 2019 From: technoid6502 at gmail.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2019 14:10:45 -0400 Subject: Data General/Rolm milspec systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Message: 4 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 10:03:54 -0400 From: "Craig M." To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: ROLM - Dat general 1602 - AN/UYK-19 computers. Message-ID: < CAD1aQJ5FnQDS7i+iLeh-+zBSBrzaqV9-f61Q76XgEbz=fSN+nw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Good Morning, Have you ever come across a document called the "Rolm I/O Designers Guide?" I am working with some developers trying to figure out the data words and how they work on a Navy AN/UYK-19 computer. I have some sticktime on the Eclipse machines. In going to boot camp getting my MV4000/DC I ran into some interesting characters. One was with DG on military sales, was visiting Groton? or another base where a test was being conducted. The computer was suspended on wires in a hangar and, while running, was subjected to simultaneous blows from heavy pendulums on either side. The noise was teriffic and my friend asked the same question, why on earth, to which the cryptic reply was two words: Depth Charges. Probably your USAF machine, corn field kept though it was, was designed for service in another kind of silo, the missile kind. Those would be projected to survive near-direct hits from megaton thermonuclear weapons. Not to mention that no air force property is immune from attack by all sorts of ordinance, nuclear or otherwise. Best, Jeff Another note, saw an old query on the "Rolm Computers: 1602, 1602A, 1602B, 1666, MSExx (was Data General Nova Star Trek)" thread about breaking down the military system designations. This website may help if you never got an earlier answer: https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordpress/2015/05/27/whats-in-a-name-u-s-department-of-defense-an-nomenclature-made-easy/ Thank you! Craig Mook From sales at elecplus.com Fri Sep 6 14:02:35 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 14:02:35 -0500 Subject: keyboard list Message-ID: <2b8f01d564e5$a590b430$f0b21c90$@com> This is the next list of keyboards I can bring in. Anybody want some of this? 2 IBM 6052141 IBM 1391401 missing some keycaps Apple M3501 nice ,no pluggable connect cable WYSE PCE,p/n 900840-01 Din-5 connector Data Desk Int,new/unused Din-5 Datatech SBK-100 Cadmus 00185-00 (dark grey) no plug-in connect cable 2 Chicony KB-5311 very nice Din5 Commodore KPR-E9447 unused Din 5 Honeywell 101WN unused Din-5 Keytronic KB101 Plus Din-5 Mitsumi KPQ-EA9YC looks good Din-5 Mitsumi NPQ-E99ZC-13 Din-5 HP C14058 If so, please send price offer for what you want. Shipping will be extra. Yes, I will ship internationally. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Sep 6 15:43:37 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:43:37 -0700 Subject: keyboard list In-Reply-To: <2b8f01d564e5$a590b430$f0b21c90$@com> References: <2b8f01d564e5$a590b430$f0b21c90$@com> Message-ID: On 9/6/19 12:02 PM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: > Cadmus 00185-00 is it this keyboard? the first picture on https://www.pcs.com/en/company/history/the-history-of-pcs/ From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Fri Sep 6 16:19:22 2019 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 17:19:22 -0400 Subject: Seeking enlightenment regarding Bus Adapter Purges on Unibus VAXen (and their ilk) In-Reply-To: <8f0ff64e-1382-4bb7-896f-157c538a23e3@9track.net> References: <8f0ff64e-1382-4bb7-896f-157c538a23e3@9track.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 4:32 AM Matt Burke via cctalk wrote: > I'm not sure if the adapter needs to request the purge at the end of > each block transfer. The driver may do this anyway but I'll have to > check the source listings. I would definitely check source listings. Also, check BSD/Ultrix _and_ VMS. I guarantee they don't do everything the same way (case in point RB730 controller initialization) but both will be insightful. My own Unibus (and Qbus and VAXBI) experience is with comm drivers not storage drivers so I don't have any insights on block transfers and purges, unfortunately. I'm excited for the results of this. -ethan From sales at elecplus.com Fri Sep 6 18:12:13 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 18:12:13 -0500 Subject: keyboard list In-Reply-To: References: <2b8f01d564e5$a590b430$f0b21c90$@com> Message-ID: <2c4401d56508$853192e0$8f94b8a0$@com> -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctalk Sent: Friday, September 06, 2019 3:44 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: keyboard list On 9/6/19 12:02 PM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: > Cadmus 00185-00 is it this keyboard? the first picture on https://www.pcs.com/en/company/history/the-history-of-pcs/ I have asked; awaiting a reply. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From useddec at gmail.com Fri Sep 6 20:11:51 2019 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 20:11:51 -0500 Subject: Data General/Rolm milspec systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: RAF Chicksands, and to Ops building probably couldn't withstand anything bigger than a AK 47 or M16 hit. The RAF commander couldn't ever get into our building. I think he was in charge of grounds keeping, Etc. USAFSS , before they changed the command name = NSA. On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 1:10 PM Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 10:03:54 -0400 > From: "Craig M." > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: ROLM - Dat general 1602 - AN/UYK-19 computers. > Message-ID: > < > CAD1aQJ5FnQDS7i+iLeh-+zBSBrzaqV9-f61Q76XgEbz=fSN+nw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Good Morning, > Have you ever come across a document called the > "Rolm > I/O Designers Guide?" I am working with some developers trying to > figure > out the data words and how they work on a Navy AN/UYK-19 computer. > > I have some sticktime on the Eclipse machines. In going to boot camp > getting my MV4000/DC I ran into some interesting characters. One was > with DG on military sales, was visiting Groton? or another base where a > test was being conducted. The computer was suspended on wires in a > hangar and, while running, was subjected to simultaneous blows from > heavy pendulums on either side. The noise was teriffic and my friend > asked the same question, why on earth, to which the cryptic reply was > two words: Depth Charges. > > Probably your USAF machine, corn field kept though it was, was designed > for service in another kind of silo, the missile kind. Those would be > projected to survive near-direct hits from megaton thermonuclear > weapons. Not to mention that no air force property is immune from > attack by all sorts of ordinance, nuclear or otherwise. > > Best, > > Jeff > > Another note, saw an old query on the "Rolm Computers: 1602, 1602A, > 1602B, > 1666, MSExx (was Data General Nova Star Trek)" thread about breaking > down > the military system designations. This website may help if you never > got an > earlier answer: > > https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordpress/2015/05/27/whats-in-a-name-u-s-department-of-defense-an-nomenclature-made-easy/ > Thank you! > > Craig Mook > > From als at thangorodrim.ch Sat Sep 7 17:45:11 2019 From: als at thangorodrim.ch (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:45:11 +0200 Subject: Searching cctalk/cctech In-Reply-To: <1e6cc1bb-564b-26a7-b05a-91a704c34794@sydex.com> References: <87b90696-7540-a94d-f037-3c35f5654486@snowmoose.com> <1567447295.16857.1.camel@moondog> <54af2d7d-7435-c17b-9a3b-ee24c0304281@sydex.com> <1e6cc1bb-564b-26a7-b05a-91a704c34794@sydex.com> Message-ID: <20190907224511.72dsmrdxlnelx6ur@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Sep 02, 2019 at 09:13:40PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 9/2/19 7:37 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> Anent that--Google does have a search language of sorts: > >> https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advanced-search-operators/ > >> These elements can reduce the eyestrain from looking at too many results. > > > > Q: WHY does GOOGLE.COM not have a comparable summary? > > Because the programmers for Google like to screw around. > > Don't believe me? Do a search for the word "askew". Hehe, didn't know that one. But there a few of them. Search for "do a barrel roll" ;-) Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From coryheisterkamp at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 20:11:03 2019 From: coryheisterkamp at gmail.com (Cory Heisterkamp) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:11:03 -0500 Subject: Mohawk Data Sciences 6401 Schematic? Message-ID: <9CA4ADA2-C46E-4A04-9C25-B13D77FCCD58@gmail.com> Hey Guys, I recently picked up an MDS 6401 Key-To-Tape unit in NCR guise to park next to my keypunches. It's been in storage for a couple decades and is in pretty decent shape. Even has a tape on it from when the university that had it pulled the plug and sent it off for surplus. Found an internal date code of 1971. The unit does actually show signs of life, but I suspect a power supply issue. Does anyone have a lead on a schematic? This here is basically what I'm working with: http://www.thecorememory.com/NCR_C-735_-_MDS_6401_Memories.pdf Thanks, Cory From elson at pico-systems.com Sat Sep 7 20:46:59 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2019 20:46:59 -0500 Subject: Mohawk Data Sciences 6401 Schematic? In-Reply-To: <9CA4ADA2-C46E-4A04-9C25-B13D77FCCD58@gmail.com> References: <9CA4ADA2-C46E-4A04-9C25-B13D77FCCD58@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D745D93.8080103@pico-systems.com> On 09/07/2019 08:11 PM, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk wrote: > Hey Guys, > > I recently picked up an MDS 6401 Key-To-Tape unit in NCR guise to park next to my keypunches. It's been in storage for a couple decades and is in pretty decent shape. Even has a tape on it from when the university that had it pulled the plug and sent it off for surplus. Found an internal date code of 1971. > > The unit does actually show signs of life, but I suspect a power supply issue. Does anyone have a lead on a schematic? > > This here is basically what I'm working with: http://www.thecorememory.com/NCR_C-735_-_MDS_6401_Memories.pdf > > Thanks, > Cory Wow, MDS was a REALLY small outfit. Or. maybe there was another company in a related field with the same acronym MDS. They made some systems for accounting, order entry and such that were not computer-based. The data was stored on a 4' diameter fixed-head disk, and they had a bunch of stations that looked like fancy desk calculators. All the logic was in the stations, and was implemented with about 50 ICs and wire-wrap. But, I'm pretty sure this was made by Mohawk Digital Sciences. I got a Pertec key to tape system on the surplus market in about 1981 or so. It had a little core memory, a keyboard and a panel of lights so you could step through a record and view the characters. It came from the surplus outfit with schematics. I found the right place to break into the logic and interfaced it to my Z-80 CP/M system. I used it for backup. (I added a Memorex SASI-bus 8" hard drive to the CP/M system, and didn't really trust the reliability of floppies, so mag tape was a good thing to use.) Jon From nf6x at nf6x.net Sat Sep 7 10:05:09 2019 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 08:05:09 -0700 Subject: Shugart-Interface 8" Floppy Diskette Drive Configurability Message-ID: <9E28382F-0EBB-4942-B8EC-ABD54CDD2B5B@nf6x.net> I've been contemplating a floppy diskette drive emulator with features to make it fit better into systems using 50-pin Shugart style floppy drive interfaces vs. the other emulators already on the market. Studying manuals for various 8" floppy diskette drives, I see that they generally provided a great deal of configurability. There are the myriad of jumper-selectable options which change drive behavior for compatibility with various computers. Then there are features like FM data separators which are present on some, but not all, drives. And then there are many documented "cut this trace, then bodge wire this signal to pin X of the edge connector" options for special purposes such as individual drive motor controls, simultaneous monitoring of all four drive ready signals, etc. Since fully supporting all of the options I've seen documented would have real hardware cost and add complexity to the design, I'm wondering just how much of that configurability is really necessary. Which non-default options are really needed for system still in use and/or in the hands of collectors? Which were only ever provided for some obscure industrial system manufacturer, with no surviving systems in existence? Which were included just in case somebody might need them, but were never used in practice? I'd appreciate it if anybody can provide insight into this, such as examples of systems which required non-omnipresent and/or non-default configuration options. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From aperry at snowmoose.com Sat Sep 7 20:43:45 2019 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 18:43:45 -0700 Subject: Info on testing vintage power supplies In-Reply-To: References: <82c28daf-667b-1937-07a7-28fee56b986c@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/19 9:56 AM, Tony Duell wrote: > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 5:35 PM Alan Perry via cctech > wrote: >> >> >> Can anyone here provide a pointer to info on testing vintage power >> supplies? Search results on the web may eventually lead to the kind of >> info that I am looking for, but I have to get through too many pages of >> modern PC power supplies first. >> >> Specifically, I will be testing the power supplies in my Sun 3/260, >> which has 24V, 12V and 5V. I am wondering things like what is suitable >> loads and do I need to put a load on all three or can I test them one at >> a time and what I haven't thought of with regards to testing them. > > With most classic computer switch mode PSUs (which the one in a > Sun 3/260 is), you need to load the main output. The other outputs don't > _need_ loads, but it doesn't hurt to have them). For 99% of classic computer > supples (and true for the Sun 3/260) the main output is the +5V one. > > I'd try to draw perhaps 5A from that. So a 6V car bulb of 30-odd watts. A > 6V car headlamp bulb, for example. It's not critical Have that connected > between the +5V output and ground (the 0V rail of the machine, not > necessarily mains ground) for all tests on the supply. In other words, > connect up the bulb, power up (the bulb should light), then measure the > voltage between each output of the supply and ground. The power supplies that I had been looking at were the two in the SMD disk cabinet. Still haven't tried powering them up. Today I opened the 3/260 cabinet. There was a nest made by some rodent on top of its power supply. It was composed of shredded material that went down into the power supply through the holes in its cover. From the surface rust, it looks like there was moisture in the nest. What should I do to the power supply before trying to power it up? alan From vintagecomputersmn at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 14:22:41 2019 From: vintagecomputersmn at gmail.com (Mister PDP) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 14:22:41 -0500 Subject: Looking for schematics of QBUS 32KW memory module. Message-ID: Hello, A few weeks ago I ordered a Sigma 400255 for my H11A LSI-11 computer with the hopes of getting a 8" floppy hooked up for VCFMW. For the most part, all the tests I ran from the ODT seemed to be AOK. The one this I couldn't do it boot RT-11 from my TU58 emulator, as it would crash every time. Every since I was able to boot RT-11 on my machine it has been unstable and prone to crashes, but i chalked that up to the TU58 emulator, and not the machine itself. Since I needed to boot from to TU58 in order to INIT and make a bootable RT-11 disk for my system, I looked for other causes for the crashes. I ran the VKAA XXDP test, which passed fine. I then ZKMA test, which lo and behold listed back there were numerous bad addresses all over memory. The only memory modules I have are 3 nearly identical 3rd party 32KW memory modules. The one that I have in the system right now came with it, and is the one with memory errors. The other two are ones I bought on eBay that are in rather poor condition and currently do not work at all. I was hoping to transfer some of the 4116 chips from my nonfunctional units over to my semi-functional unit, but I cannot find schematics for any of the boards because they don't have any marking identifying marking on them. If anyone knows where I can find schematics for these boards, that would be wonderful. I am including a picture of one of these boards below. https://i.ibb.co/sQwZw0j/32kwram.jpg Thank You, Gavin Tersteeg From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Sun Sep 8 15:20:02 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 16:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for schematics of QBUS 32KW memory module. Message-ID: <20190908202002.1EF4218C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Mister PDP > listed back there were numerous bad addresses all over memory. > ... > I cannot find schematics for any of the boards You can repair MOS memory boards where the board is basically working, but just has some failing memory chips, without schematics. First you need to create a map which translates memory chip # to bits. You have 32 chips in the array, so there are probably 2 32KB banks, each 16 bits wide. Pull a chip, and then try and figure out which bit it is; then repeat with other chips to try and figure out which bits are stored in which chips. (Unless the designers were insane, each chip will hold the same bit in all the words in that bank.) On yours, the memory chips are in sockets, which makes this less painful. (On boards where the chips are soldered in, a program which loops, storing a word with a single 1 bit, can be used to the same effect; the chip data sheet will tell you which pin is the data pin.) Usually a missing chip results in bits stored in that chip reading as '0', but it's possible they will read back as 1. Anyway, to test the first possibility, start by finding a location in the each bank that can be written to all 0's and all 1's (read back after writing to verify). Next, pull a chip, and then try writing all 1's to that word in the low bank, and read it back. If it now has a 0 bit, congratulations i) you've verified that missing chips read as 0, ii) that chip is part of the low bank, and iii) the 0 bit tells you which bit that chip is - fill in that entry in your chip<->bit chart. If not, try the high bank word, and see if it now has a 0 bit. If not, try writing 0's to the high and low words, and check for a '1' bit; if so, i) missing chips read as 1, etc. If neither is true, check back here! Otherwise, try pulling another chip, and work out which bit that one is, and add it to the chart. Repeat for all 32 chips - although if you're lucky, after a couple you might find a pattern, and be able to predict which chips hold which bits. (But not always; many are random; see e.g.: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Q-RAM_11 http://gunkies.org/wiki/NS23M for some.) If so, do a few spot tests of your predictions to make sure your pattern is correct. With the completed chart in hand, given a failing word (address and bad data), you can work out which chip is at fault, and replace it. Repeat for all memory errors. Noel From jsw at ieee.org Sun Sep 8 16:01:25 2019 From: jsw at ieee.org (Jerry Weiss) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 16:01:25 -0500 Subject: Looking for schematics of QBUS 32KW memory module. In-Reply-To: <20190908202002.1EF4218C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190908202002.1EF4218C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <77bcc9e0-0b51-7b96-1cc7-54592a12eefe@ieee.org> On 9/8/19 3:20 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Mister PDP > > > listed back there were numerous bad addresses all over memory. > > ... > > I cannot find schematics for any of the boards > > ..... > > With the completed chart in hand, given a failing word (address and bad > data), you can work out which chip is at fault, and replace it. Repeat > for all memory errors. > Noel's approach is valid and I have done the same on several boards.? Sorry I don't recognize the vendor of your board. I would also suggest checking the voltages on the board, especially the -5V for the memory chip if the memory faults are scattered across the memory space. The circuitry on the upper left of your picture is probably a NE555 that is used as a charge pump to generate Vbb from the LSI power supplies. The larger capacitors are probably tantalum (Kemet?) and should have aged better than electrolytics of the period. ? Jerry From vintagecomputersmn at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 16:21:03 2019 From: vintagecomputersmn at gmail.com (Mister PDP) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 16:21:03 -0500 Subject: Looking for schematics of QBUS 32KW memory module. In-Reply-To: <77bcc9e0-0b51-7b96-1cc7-54592a12eefe@ieee.org> References: <20190908202002.1EF4218C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <77bcc9e0-0b51-7b96-1cc7-54592a12eefe@ieee.org> Message-ID: I guess I should have been a little more specific about the memory issues I was having when I made this post. For the most part these issues seem to be scattered all about memory. Also, while the XXDP I have been running has been catching more or less the same addresses every time I run it, someones it misses a few or adds a few new ones. Moreover when the tests are done, I can read and write to the addresses using OTD just fine, which makes me think the chips that are bad (if they are bad, and it isn't some power related issue) are more flaky than dead. I put one of the outputs from a run of the XXDP test on a pastebin below. https://pastebin.com/mF6qWs0U On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 4:01 PM Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote: > On 9/8/19 3:20 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > > From: Mister PDP > > > > > listed back there were numerous bad addresses all over memory. > > > ... > > > I cannot find schematics for any of the boards > > > > ..... > > > > With the completed chart in hand, given a failing word (address and bad > > data), you can work out which chip is at fault, and replace it. Repeat > > for all memory errors. > > > > Noel's approach is valid and I have done the same on several boards. > Sorry I don't recognize the vendor of your board. > > I would also suggest checking the voltages on the board, especially the > -5V for the memory chip if the memory faults are scattered across the > memory space. The circuitry on the upper left of your picture is > probably a NE555 that is used as a charge pump to generate Vbb from the > LSI power supplies. > > The larger capacitors are probably tantalum (Kemet?) and should have > aged better than electrolytics of the period. > > Jerry > From jsw at ieee.org Sun Sep 8 16:53:03 2019 From: jsw at ieee.org (Jerry Weiss) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 16:53:03 -0500 Subject: Looking for schematics of QBUS 32KW memory module. In-Reply-To: References: <20190908202002.1EF4218C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <77bcc9e0-0b51-7b96-1cc7-54592a12eefe@ieee.org> Message-ID: On 9/8/19 4:21 PM, Mister PDP via cctalk wrote: > I guess I should have been a little more specific about the memory issues I > was having when I made this post. For the most part these issues seem to be > scattered all about memory. Also, while the XXDP I have been running has > been catching more or less the same addresses every time I run it, someones > it misses a few or adds a few new ones. Moreover when the tests are done, I > can read and write to the addresses using OTD just fine, which makes me > think the chips that are bad (if they are bad, and it isn't some power > related issue) are more flaky than dead. > > I put one of the outputs from a run of the XXDP test on a pastebin below. > > https://pastebin.com/mF6qWs0U > > If the voltage to these chips is not stable or at the correct voltages, the circuitry to refresh the dynamic memory might fail or read the wrong data level from the memory cells.?? Some chips may be more sensitive to slightly out of spec voltages than others.? There of course may be a pattern in the outputs that suggest that have one or many bad memory chips, but I haven't zero'ed in on it yet. I have the same floppy controller sitting on project list for later in the year, so keep us posted as to your progress. Jerry From mbbrutman at brutman.com Sun Sep 8 17:29:24 2019 From: mbbrutman at brutman.com (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 15:29:24 -0700 Subject: Announcing VCF Pacific Northwest 2020 Message-ID: The Vintage Computer Federation is pleased to announce Vintage Computer Festival Pacific Northwest 2020! We will be at Living Computers:Museum+Labs in Seattle Washington on Saturday March 21st and Sunday March 22nd, 2020. To make this happen we are looking for exhibitors, speakers and volunteers. Last year we had 28 exhibits and 6 presentations. We had a great time, we broke the museum attendance record (again), and we are looking to have a good time again in March. If you are thinking of traveling from outside of the region there is plenty to do in Seattle while you are here. Local attractions include the Connections Museum, the Pacific Science Center, MoPOP, the Boeing factory tour, Mr. Rainier, etc. Victoria, British Columbia is also a short distance away. See a more complete list at https://goo.gl/3emMWH . Details about VCF PNW 2020 can be found at http://vcfed.org/vcf-pnw . The exhibitor registration instructions can be found at http://vcfed.org/vcf-pnw/exhibitor-registration . I'm happy to answer questions by email too. Regards, Mike mbbrutman at brutman.com or michael at vcfed.org From kylevowen at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 18:42:06 2019 From: kylevowen at gmail.com (Kyle Owen) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 18:42:06 -0500 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair Message-ID: Has anyone replaced the capacitor in a ferroresonant power supply with much success? My current understanding is that the capacitor and transformer are mated as a pair, so replacing just one of them would require careful consideration. The PDP-8/I I'm working on has a 704A in it, with a GE 8uF 660V capacitor. It measures a couple of nF on my capacitor meter, and I was told by the previous owner that it's dead. Any advice? Thanks, Kyle From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Sep 8 18:54:34 2019 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 16:54:34 -0700 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> Hi Kyle, On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 18:42:06 -0500 Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > Has anyone replaced the capacitor in a ferroresonant power supply with much > success? My current understanding is that the capacitor and transformer are > mated as a pair, so replacing just one of them would require careful > consideration. > > The PDP-8/I I'm working on has a 704A in it, with a GE 8uF 660V capacitor. > It measures a couple of nF on my capacitor meter, and I was told by the > previous owner that it's dead. We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on the CHM's PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not super-critical as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you should be fine. Cheers, Lyle PDP-1 Restoration Team, CHM -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West Inc. https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Sep 8 19:31:53 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 17:31:53 -0700 Subject: ISO old AST mainframe comms driver software Message-ID: <135c39fb-4f10-63fb-b4b6-e53ce06fc7ed@bitsavers.org> AST-coax, AST-432, AST-SNA, etc. IBM comms products circa late 80s I'm in the process of pdf-ing the manuals this afternoon. The only product disk I have is AST-3780 From guykd at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 8 20:38:53 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2019 11:38:53 +1000 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 04:54 PM 8/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Kyle, > >On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 18:42:06 -0500 >Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > >> Has anyone replaced the capacitor in a ferroresonant power supply with much >> success? My current understanding is that the capacitor and transformer are >> mated as a pair, so replacing just one of them would require careful >> consideration. >> >> The PDP-8/I I'm working on has a 704A in it, with a GE 8uF 660V capacitor. >> It measures a couple of nF on my capacitor meter, and I was told by the >> previous owner that it's dead. > >We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on the CHM's >PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not super-critical >as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you should >be fine. > >Cheers, >Lyle >PDP-1 Restoration Team, CHM Yes, that's right. Find something with the same marked capacitance value. The rated voltage can be the same or higher. Be aware these are non-polarized caps, NOT electrolytics. They are typically paper, foil and oil. Best to find a new replacement, as many old-old oil- insulated caps will contain PCB (polychlorinated biphenyl) oil, which is severely carcinogenic. Banned, and must be disposed of as contaminated waste. Guy From kylevowen at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 21:41:31 2019 From: kylevowen at gmail.com (Kyle Owen) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 21:41:31 -0500 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 20:39 Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > > > >We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on the > CHM's > >PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not > super-critical > >as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you > should > >be fine. > > > > Yes, that's right. Find something with the same marked capacitance value. > The rated voltage can be the same or higher. > I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good. Thanks! Kyle > From cclist at sydex.com Sun Sep 8 22:54:01 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 20:54:01 -0700 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <6bf51019-3c2d-b751-e3a2-36657ed281fc@sydex.com> On 9/8/19 7:41 PM, Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF > doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking > good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual > suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good. What capacitance do you require? For motor start/run capacitors, I tend to stay away from Chinese ones--they just don't seem to last. Try googling for "660VAC capacitor". They don't seem to be terribly difficult to find. Amazon even sells them. --Chuck From mattislind at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 23:18:13 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 06:18:13 +0200 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: m?ndag 9 september 2019 skrev Kyle Owen via cctalk : > On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 20:39 Guy Dunphy via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > >We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on > the > > CHM's > > >PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not > > super-critical > > >as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you > > should > > >be fine. > > > > > > > Yes, that's right. Find something with the same marked capacitance value. > > The rated voltage can be the same or higher. > > > > I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF > doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking > good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual > suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good. Mouser has CDE 8 uF 660 VAC. 11 are on order from the manufacturer. https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier-CDE/SFA66T8K475B-F?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu3dWSqd4Tl0A9wIZdhZWWRKQi0fpV8QTUDmNGSFUtTTQ%3D%3D I have replaced several of these capacitors in PDP-8, LA30, PDP-9. /Mattis > Thanks! > > Kyle > > > > From kylevowen at gmail.com Mon Sep 9 09:24:43 2019 From: kylevowen at gmail.com (Kyle Owen) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 09:24:43 -0500 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 11:18 PM Mattis Lind wrote: > Mouser has CDE 8 uF 660 VAC. 11 are on order from the manufacturer. > > > https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier-CDE/SFA66T8K475B-F?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu3dWSqd4Tl0A9wIZdhZWWRKQi0fpV8QTUDmNGSFUtTTQ%3D%3D > > I have replaced several of these capacitors in PDP-8, LA30, PDP-9. > Thanks! Someone else pointed me to Mouser as well. Was hoping to find something in stock, but I guess I can wait and go with Mouser; after all, the PDP-8/I has been waiting well over 30 years for a new capacitor! Kyle From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Mon Sep 9 10:23:09 2019 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:23:09 -0400 Subject: Looking for schematics of QBUS 32KW memory module. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2737549b-7c4a-63bb-f869-27ca7d4ac7be@comcast.net> On 9/8/2019 3:22 PM, Mister PDP via cctalk wrote: > Hello, > > A few weeks ago I ordered a Sigma 400255 for my H11A LSI-11 computer with > the hopes of getting a 8" floppy hooked up for VCFMW. For the most part, > all the tests I ran from the ODT seemed to be AOK. The one this I couldn't > do it boot RT-11 from my TU58 emulator, as it would crash every time. Every > since I was able to boot RT-11 on my machine it has been unstable and prone > to crashes, but i chalked that up to the TU58 emulator, and not the machine > itself. Since I needed to boot from to TU58 in order to INIT and make a > bootable RT-11 disk for my system, I looked for other causes for the > crashes. I ran the VKAA XXDP test, which passed fine. I then ZKMA test, > which lo and behold listed back there were numerous bad addresses all over > memory. The only memory modules I have are 3 nearly identical 3rd party > 32KW memory modules. The one that I have in the system right now came with > it, and is the one with memory errors. The other two are ones I bought on > eBay that are in rather poor condition and currently do not work at all. I > was hoping to transfer some of the 4116 chips from my nonfunctional units > over to my semi-functional unit, but I cannot find schematics for any of > the boards because they don't have any marking identifying marking on them. > > If anyone knows where I can find schematics for these boards, that would be > wonderful. I am including a picture of one of these boards below. > > https://i.ibb.co/sQwZw0j/32kwram.jpg > > Thank You, Gavin Tersteeg I have the Heathkit Memory Expansion Module Model H11-1 manual for the H11. Has anyone offered you a working DEC MSV11 32k word memory board - so you can get thru VCFMW?? They are as common as hens teeth. Doug From malcolm at avitech.com.au Mon Sep 9 16:30:51 2019 From: malcolm at avitech.com.au (malcolm at avitech.com.au) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 07:30:51 +1000 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair Message-ID: <00e901d56755$dc569300$9503b900$@avitech.com.au> >Thanks! Someone else pointed me to Mouser as well. Was hoping to find something in stock, but I guess I can wait and go with Mouser; after all, the PDP-8/I has >been waiting well over 30 years for a new capacitor! > >Kyle It looks like Farnell/element14 have a couple in stock -> https://au.element14.com/search?st=8uf%20660v Element14 Order Number 2668607 Malcolm From kylevowen at gmail.com Mon Sep 9 17:55:22 2019 From: kylevowen at gmail.com (Kyle Owen) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 17:55:22 -0500 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:06 PM Marc Howard wrote: > BTW, Genteq is a reputable brand. It is the former GE capacitor division, > hence the name Gen(eral Electric)teq(technology). > > On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:02 PM Marc Howard wrote: > >> Amazon is your friend: >> >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Capacitor-Motor-Quick-Connect-Snap/dp/B00HRNKI9Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?keywords=660v+capacitor+8+mfd&qid=1568059220&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr0 >> >> $13 bucks. Cheep. >> > Awesome! That's much cheaper than I was expecting. I'll make an update when I get it installed. It is physically much smaller than the previous one, so I'll have to come up with another mounting solution. Maybe I'll find some material to wedge underneath the cap to make it around the same height, assuming the width is the same; should be able to use the same mounting brackets that way. Kyle From cclist at sydex.com Mon Sep 9 22:05:01 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 20:05:01 -0700 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3d055786-270d-56c0-bc5a-b6b2c7b4c772@sydex.com> I don't know your location, but the surplus electronics/electricals vendors here in the US tend to have lots of the the older oil caps (no PCBs). e.g. https://www.electronicsurplus.com/capacitors/oil-filled-capacitor/page/2 From cramcram at gmail.com Mon Sep 9 15:02:34 2019 From: cramcram at gmail.com (Marc Howard) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 13:02:34 -0700 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: Amazon is your friend: https://www.amazon.com/Capacitor-Motor-Quick-Connect-Snap/dp/B00HRNKI9Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?keywords=660v+capacitor+8+mfd&qid=1568059220&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr0 $13 bucks. Cheep. Marc Howard On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 7:41 PM Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 20:39 Guy Dunphy via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > >We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on > the > > CHM's > > >PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not > > super-critical > > >as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you > > should > > >be fine. > > > > > > > Yes, that's right. Find something with the same marked capacitance value. > > The rated voltage can be the same or higher. > > > > I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF > doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking > good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual > suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good. > > Thanks! > > Kyle > > > > From cramcram at gmail.com Mon Sep 9 16:06:41 2019 From: cramcram at gmail.com (Marc Howard) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 14:06:41 -0700 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: BTW, Genteq is a reputable brand. It is the former GE capacitor division, hence the name Gen(eral Electric)teq(technology). On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:02 PM Marc Howard wrote: > Amazon is your friend: > > > https://www.amazon.com/Capacitor-Motor-Quick-Connect-Snap/dp/B00HRNKI9Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?keywords=660v+capacitor+8+mfd&qid=1568059220&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr0 > > $13 bucks. Cheep. > > Marc Howard > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 7:41 PM Kyle Owen via cctalk > wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 20:39 Guy Dunphy via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> > > >> > >We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on >> the >> > CHM's >> > >PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not >> > super-critical >> > >as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you >> > should >> > >be fine. >> > > >> > >> > Yes, that's right. Find something with the same marked capacitance >> value. >> > The rated voltage can be the same or higher. >> > >> >> I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF >> doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking >> good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual >> suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Kyle >> >> > >> > From chrise at pobox.com Tue Sep 10 08:49:01 2019 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 08:49:01 -0500 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20190910134901.GB784@n0jcf.net> On Monday (09/09/2019 at 05:55PM -0500), Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:06 PM Marc Howard wrote: > > > BTW, Genteq is a reputable brand. It is the former GE capacitor division, > > hence the name Gen(eral Electric)teq(technology). > > > > On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:02 PM Marc Howard wrote: > > > >> Amazon is your friend: > >> > >> > >> https://www.amazon.com/Capacitor-Motor-Quick-Connect-Snap/dp/B00HRNKI9Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?keywords=660v+capacitor+8+mfd&qid=1568059220&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr0 > >> > >> $13 bucks. Cheep. > >> > > > Awesome! That's much cheaper than I was expecting. I'll make an update when > I get it installed. It is physically much smaller than the previous one, so > I'll have to come up with another mounting solution. Maybe I'll find some > material to wedge underneath the cap to make it around the same height, > assuming the width is the same; should be able to use the same mounting > brackets that way. If you were looking for a taller one than some have found, perhaps this style fits better, https://www.alliedelec.com/product/genteq/27l6016/70103256/ -- Chris Elmquist From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Sep 10 10:18:25 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 09:18:25 -0600 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: <6bf51019-3c2d-b751-e3a2-36657ed281fc@sydex.com> References: <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> <6bf51019-3c2d-b751-e3a2-36657ed281fc@sydex.com> Message-ID: <3b3cbc77-12aa-80e8-bb08-1cfcd4867fcc@jetnet.ab.ca> On 9/8/2019 9:54 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 9/8/19 7:41 PM, Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > >> I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF >> doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking >> good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual >> suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good. > > What capacitance do you require? For motor start/run capacitors, I > tend to stay away from Chinese ones--they just don't seem to last. > > Try googling for "660VAC capacitor". They don't seem to be terribly > difficult to find. Amazon even sells them. > > --Chuck Try here. http://www.surplussales.com/ From guykd at optusnet.com.au Tue Sep 10 10:44:13 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 01:44:13 +1000 Subject: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair In-Reply-To: <3b3cbc77-12aa-80e8-bb08-1cfcd4867fcc@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <6bf51019-3c2d-b751-e3a2-36657ed281fc@sydex.com> <20190908165434.1c7a7986@asrock> <3.0.6.32.20190909113853.00e450f0@mail.optusnet.com.au> <6bf51019-3c2d-b751-e3a2-36657ed281fc@sydex.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190911014413.012818d0@mail.optusnet.com.au> It's good that these caps are so readily available. But on the other hand, I don't have any sort of power supply at all, for either of my two PDP 8/S machines. Sob. Being in a 240VAC mains country doesn't help, since I understand the original DEC supplies were 110VAC input only. But I'm not complaining. It's an easy problem to solve, once I get to it. Guy From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 15:31:05 2019 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 15:31:05 -0500 Subject: Heath/Zenith Z100 technical... Message-ID: I just picked up a board set from a Zenith Z-100 (not sure if it was a 110 or 120 model) which had been junked. I threw this out on the sebhc mailing list too, but perhaps someone here knows: a) If the machine's keyboard is completely passive (i.e. just a bunch of switches), or if there's any intelligence to it, b) If the system will start up with no boards plugged in (other than the bitmap display PCB) - i.e. no S100 FDC or winchester, c) If "yes" to the previous, whether the mainboard/bitmap board will function on just +5V and +/-12V (i.e. without the S100 +8V and +/-16V rails) Trying to power up what I have might be fun, but I'm really not sure about the lack-of-keyboard issue - if it's just switches and decoded via the mainboard then rigging something might be possible, but if there's some kind of higher level serial protocol involved then maybe it's too much hassle. I don't have a S100 bus machine kicking around to power things with at present (but of course rigging something would not be too difficult). I'm not sure what kind of details the documentation went into, either - I've got a Z-89 and the docs there are extremely technical, with full schematics, but I'm not seeing any equivalent online for the Z100 series (there seems to be very little out there about them at all - came too late in the S100 era, perhaps?) cheers Jules From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Sep 11 15:51:02 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:51:02 -0700 Subject: Heath/Zenith Z100 technical... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3665b264-79bc-f4c8-441e-6a3ab8855f91@bitsavers.org> On 9/11/19 1:31 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote: > > I'm not seeing any equivalent online for the Z100 series (there seems to be very > little out there about them at all - came too late in the S100 era, perhaps?) It exists, I was surprised nothing was coming up for you. I know there are things referenced on Herb's site. I'll put up a few things on bitsavers under zenith From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 16:00:04 2019 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:00:04 -0500 Subject: Heath/Zenith Z100 technical... In-Reply-To: <3665b264-79bc-f4c8-441e-6a3ab8855f91@bitsavers.org> References: <3665b264-79bc-f4c8-441e-6a3ab8855f91@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On 9/11/19 3:51 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I'll put up a few things on bitsavers under zenith Thanks, Al! I've got the bitmap board, plus S100 cards for floppy, Winchester, and an extra 256K of RAM (it has 256 on the mainboard, by the looks of it) - so if I can work out the keyboard issue somehow it could be a "complete" machine. Floppy drives on these were standard 5.25" Shugart interface, I believe (despite the FDC board having a 50-pin header more consistent with 8 inch). Jules From useddec at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 01:27:55 2019 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 01:27:55 -0500 Subject: MSV11 Message-ID: Hi Doug, If you are going to VCFMW, I can bring you a DEC M8044 for $25. Need anything else? Thanks, Paul From binarydinosaurs at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 05:35:08 2019 From: binarydinosaurs at gmail.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:35:08 +0100 Subject: IBM System/32 available in Helsinki Message-ID: Folks, I've been made aware by Michael Ross (who for some reason can't join this list) that there is a System/32 available for not much money in Helsinki. If you're 100% interested the contact is stidialla at gmail.com Cheers! -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk From tmfdmike at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 18:30:12 2019 From: tmfdmike at gmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 11:30:12 +1200 Subject: Test message Message-ID: I was banned for ages, I've been told I'm not any more; test post; disregard. Mike From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 18:33:32 2019 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 20:33:32 -0300 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Test failed Please call service Enviado do meu Tele-Movel On Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 20:30 Mike Ross via cctalk wrote: > I was banned for ages, I've been told I'm not any more; test post; > disregard. > > Mike > From john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net Fri Sep 13 02:16:27 2019 From: john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net (John Many Jars) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:16:27 +0100 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 601 On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 at 00:33, Alexandre Souza via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Test failed > Please call service > > Enviado do meu Tele-Movel > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 20:30 Mike Ross via cctalk > wrote: > > > I was banned for ages, I've been told I'm not any more; test post; > > disregard. > > > > Mike > > > -- Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow" Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net -------- "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Fri Sep 13 12:15:33 2019 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:15:33 -0500 Subject: Test message Message-ID: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> Sorry, we did not receive your message. Have you tried turning it off and back on again? :) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Fri Sep 13 15:42:25 2019 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:42:25 -0500 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB Message-ID: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> I could use a hint... I have a USB to current-loop (Volpe) interface board, and Windows 7 on my laptop does recognize it as COM4 at 110 baud. So far so good. No problem hooking it up to my ASR-33 Teletype. Now I'd really like to figure out how to set SIMH to use the 33 as the console, so the TTY will be attached to the virtual PDP-8. I do have OS/8 and TSS/8 running on SIMH with the laptop as console. Just don't know how to make it "talk" to the USB serial port instead. Anything that starts with "set console..." gives a "no settable parameters" error. Thanks for any hints. -Charles --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 13 15:44:16 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> References: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: > Sorry, we did not receive your message. Have you tried turning it off and > back on again? > :) > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus Uninstall and reinstall the OS. Are you still using an operating system that is MORE THAN 6 MONTHS old?? Upgrade your hardware to current. and go into settings to stop avast from hijacking your signature. From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Sep 13 16:00:40 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 14:00:40 -0700 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: References: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: <3de3c253-d654-03b4-d487-3caa82011716@bitsavers.org> On 9/13/19 1:44 PM, Senile Old Man via cctalk wrote: > Uninstall and reinstall the OS. Nice to see this list continues to circle the bowl. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 13 18:01:45 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:01:45 -0600 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: <3de3c253-d654-03b4-d487-3caa82011716@bitsavers.org> References: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> <3de3c253-d654-03b4-d487-3caa82011716@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <6b5d7846-6455-65e4-cde9-cbe3cc7b5eb3@jetnet.ab.ca> On 9/13/2019 3:00 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 9/13/19 1:44 PM, Senile Old Man via cctalk wrote: > >> Uninstall and reinstall the OS. > > Nice to see this list continues to circle the bowl. Bare metal machines don't need a OS. Just liner notes on the drum in felt pen. Bad sector. Core dump from last month. Boot from here on tuesdays.Reads backwards to emulate tape. Oil here. WD40 there. Grease Now. From nw.johnson at ieee.org Fri Sep 13 18:07:53 2019 From: nw.johnson at ieee.org (Nigel Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 19:07:53 -0400 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: <6b5d7846-6455-65e4-cde9-cbe3cc7b5eb3@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> <3de3c253-d654-03b4-d487-3caa82011716@bitsavers.org> <6b5d7846-6455-65e4-cde9-cbe3cc7b5eb3@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <9d485f53-5f59-8440-984e-d8a43f508a21@ieee.org> I have to say I am receiving you 5 by 9 in Toronto :-) (OK I will go away now and get my tin hat ) cheers, NIgel On 13/09/2019 19:01, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 9/13/2019 3:00 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> On 9/13/19 1:44 PM, Senile Old Man via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Uninstall and reinstall the OS. >> >> Nice to see this list continues to circle the bowl. > > Bare metal machines don't need a OS. Just liner notes > on the drum in felt pen. Bad sector. Core dump from last month. > Boot from here on tuesdays.Reads backwards to emulate tape. > Oil here. WD40 there. Grease Now. > > > > > > -- Nigel Johnson MSc., MIEEE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591 If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. Nigel Johnson Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message From jdbryan at acm.org Fri Sep 13 18:23:48 2019 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 19:23:48 -0400 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 15:42, Charles via cctalk wrote: > I could use a hint... I have a USB to current-loop (Volpe) interface > board, and Windows 7 on my laptop does recognize it as COM4 at 110 > baud. So far so good. No problem hooking it up to my ASR-33 Teletype. > > Now I'd really like to figure out how to set SIMH to use the 33 as the > console, so the TTY will be attached to the virtual PDP-8. Section 3.14, "Console Options" of the "SIMH Users' Guide V4.0" suggests that: set console serial=com4;110-8n2 ...should work (though you might need "7e2" or "7o2" instead, depending on how your Teletype is set up). > Anything that starts with "set console..." gives a "no settable > parameters" error. Does the above also give this error? -- Dave From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Fri Sep 13 18:31:38 2019 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:31:38 -0500 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: I'm using a slightly older SIMH and user's guide (3.8 something). This SIMH will not allow Set Console Serial, apparently (No settable parameter I only found the suggestion for Telnet in my user guide, so I did Set Console Telnet:23. It does accept that. So now I was just trying to use Tera Term which defaults to port 23... Is it even possible to run Tera Term in one window and SIMH in another, and have them connect via Telnet if on the same laptop? Before I start messing with the actual hardware (USB converter and TTY)? thanks Charles -----Original Message----- From: J. David Bryan Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 6:23 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Charles Subject: Re: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 15:42, Charles via cctalk wrote: > I could use a hint... I have a USB to current-loop (Volpe) interface > board, and Windows 7 on my laptop does recognize it as COM4 at 110 > baud. So far so good. No problem hooking it up to my ASR-33 Teletype. > > Now I'd really like to figure out how to set SIMH to use the 33 as the > console, so the TTY will be attached to the virtual PDP-8. Section 3.14, "Console Options" of the "SIMH Users' Guide V4.0" suggests that: set console serial=com4;110-8n2 ...should work (though you might need "7e2" or "7o2" instead, depending on how your Teletype is set up). > Anything that starts with "set console..." gives a "no settable > parameters" error. Does the above also give this error? -- Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 13 18:38:59 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 16:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: <3de3c253-d654-03b4-d487-3caa82011716@bitsavers.org> References: <319F5E69FECD4FAE8913561A6FEF008D@CharlesHPLaptop> <3de3c253-d654-03b4-d487-3caa82011716@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: > On 9/13/19 1:44 PM, Senile Old Man via cctalk wrote: >> Uninstall and reinstall the OS. On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > Nice to see this list continues to circle the bowl. Sorry. I didn't mean to offend or annoy. Just joining in on ridicule of "modern tech support". There are serious fundamental flaws in the design of an OS that is large enough to be able to have self-check code, but still needs to be re-installed periodically. I particularly didn't want to annoy YOU. I am impressed with your projects. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Fri Sep 13 18:46:39 2019 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:46:39 -0500 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: <4D00BBFFED9F4237868F13A4C73E257F@CharlesHPLaptop> Update: got my SIMH (set console telnet:23) talking to PuTTY in another window, via Telnet 127.0.0.1:23. So it is possible ;) Now it's time to hook up the actual TTY to the USB-current loop card and see what's what! -----Original Message----- From: J. David Bryan Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 6:23 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Charles Subject: Re: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 15:42, Charles via cctalk wrote: > I could use a hint... I have a USB to current-loop (Volpe) interface > board, and Windows 7 on my laptop does recognize it as COM4 at 110 > baud. So far so good. No problem hooking it up to my ASR-33 Teletype. > > Now I'd really like to figure out how to set SIMH to use the 33 as the > console, so the TTY will be attached to the virtual PDP-8. Section 3.14, "Console Options" of the "SIMH Users' Guide V4.0" suggests that: set console serial=com4;110-8n2 ...should work (though you might need "7e2" or "7o2" instead, depending on how your Teletype is set up). > Anything that starts with "set console..." gives a "no settable > parameters" error. Does the above also give this error? -- Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Fri Sep 13 20:56:47 2019 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:56:47 -0500 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB Message-ID: <9198092555B94554B64584E3E9B1875F@CharlesHPLaptop> I got ahead of myself a little bit... forgot I still couldn't connect a serial port to SIMH. Turns out my version of SIMH 3.08 was from 2008 or so... I just downloaded the latest version 4 from GitHub and sure enough it does accept SET CONSOLE SERIAL. Now I just have to figure out the port name since it doesn't like COM4: But I'm almost there :) -----Original Message----- From: Charles Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 6:46 PM To: J. David Bryan ; cctalk digest Subject: Re: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB Update: got my SIMH (set console telnet:23) talking to PuTTY in another window, via Telnet 127.0.0.1:23. So it is possible ;) Now it's time to hook up the actual TTY to the USB-current loop card and see what's what! -----Original Message----- From: J. David Bryan Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 6:23 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Charles Subject: Re: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 15:42, Charles via cctalk wrote: > I could use a hint... I have a USB to current-loop (Volpe) interface > board, and Windows 7 on my laptop does recognize it as COM4 at 110 > baud. So far so good. No problem hooking it up to my ASR-33 Teletype. > > Now I'd really like to figure out how to set SIMH to use the 33 as the > console, so the TTY will be attached to the virtual PDP-8. Section 3.14, "Console Options" of the "SIMH Users' Guide V4.0" suggests that: set console serial=com4;110-8n2 ...should work (though you might need "7e2" or "7o2" instead, depending on how your Teletype is set up). > Anything that starts with "set console..." gives a "no settable > parameters" error. Does the above also give this error? -- Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdbryan at acm.org Fri Sep 13 23:09:29 2019 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 00:09:29 -0400 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop>, , Message-ID: On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 18:31, Charles via cctalk wrote: > I'm using a slightly older SIMH and user's guide (3.8 something). This > SIMH will not allow Set Console Serial, apparently Serial support is not present in versions prior to 4.0. On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 20:56, Charles via cctalk wrote: > I just downloaded the latest version 4 from GitHub and sure enough it > does accept SET CONSOLE SERIAL. Now I just have to figure out the port > name since it doesn't like COM4: Enter the port name without the colon (i.e., "COM4" and not "COM4:"). You'll need to include the optional port configuration, which defaults to 9600 baud if omitted. You can verify the valid host port names with a SHOW SERIAL command. -- Dave From joe at barrera.org Fri Sep 13 23:17:16 2019 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 06:17:16 +0200 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I received your post, but mercifully I haven't received any of the pointless replies to your post. On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:30 AM Mike Ross via cctalk wrote: > I was banned for ages, I've been told I'm not any more; test post; > disregard. > > Mike > From spedraja at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 02:22:32 2019 From: spedraja at gmail.com (SPC) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 09:22:32 +0200 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: El s?b., 14 sept. 2019 6:09, J. David Bryan via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> escribi?: > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 18:31, Charles via cctalk wrote: > > > I'm using a slightly older SIMH and user's guide (3.8 something). This > > SIMH will not allow Set Console Serial, apparently > > Serial support is not present in versions prior to 4.0. > I plugged in one DEC VT220 terminal to a version of SIMH 3.x running UNIX V7 (and CP/M and CTSS but that's another story) about four years ago, by serial port. I used one utility program (available for free at this time) to redirect a serial port to tcp/ip. I don't have its name at hand now, sorry. Regards, Sergio From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Sat Sep 14 08:08:39 2019 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:08:39 +0200 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: <6dab6f327630eac6c341493b322fb60b1099c97c.camel@agj.net> l?r 2019-09-14 klockan 09:22 +0200 skrev SPC via cctalk: > El s?b., 14 sept. 2019 6:09, J. David Bryan via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> escribi?: > > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 18:31, Charles via cctalk wrote: > > > > > I'm using a slightly older SIMH and user's guide (3.8 something). > > > This > > > SIMH will not allow Set Console Serial, apparently > > > > Serial support is not present in versions prior to 4.0. > > > > I plugged in one DEC VT220 terminal to a version of SIMH 3.x running > UNIX > V7 (and CP/M and CTSS but that's another story) about four years ago, > by > serial port. I used one utility program (available for free at this > time) > to redirect a serial port to tcp/ip. I don't have its name at hand > now, > sorry. > > Regards, > Sergio Which is basically what you would find inside a console port server ie a box with a lot of serial ports connected to console ports on servers. ssh and telnet to specific ports or if the console server has several ip addresses assigned ssh to port 22 on an specific IP address. From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Sat Sep 14 08:11:56 2019 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:11:56 +0200 Subject: Connecting SIMH to teletype via USB In-Reply-To: References: <02B89BAD4AFB486D807CD72F951370E3@CharlesHPLaptop> Message-ID: <5078aac51e50d53c36dd0ec7518876122addf459.camel@agj.net> l?r 2019-09-14 klockan 09:22 +0200 skrev SPC via cctalk: > El s?b., 14 sept. 2019 6:09, J. David Bryan via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> escribi?: > > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 18:31, Charles via cctalk wrote: > > > > > I'm using a slightly older SIMH and user's guide (3.8 something). > > > This > > > SIMH will not allow Set Console Serial, apparently > > > > Serial support is not present in versions prior to 4.0. > > > > I plugged in one DEC VT220 terminal to a version of SIMH 3.x running > UNIX > V7 (and CP/M and CTSS but that's another story) about four years ago, > by > serial port. I used one utility program (available for free at this > time) > to redirect a serial port to tcp/ip. I don't have its name at hand > now, > sorry. > > Regards, > Sergio conserver ? It should be possible to turn it around ie using it for the opposite of its usual usage From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sat Sep 14 22:40:58 2019 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 22:40:58 -0500 Subject: Partial success (SIMH TSS/8), new problem has me stumped Message-ID: <5F1803DE7F544AB790C82C76459F0392@CharlesHPLaptop> I finally managed to get TSS/8 running under SIMH V4... console on the laptop, a time-sharing line (TTIX port 23) on an ADM-3A (much quieter while debugging) :) The interface is the Volpe current-loop to USB board, a small freeware program "COM By TCP" to allow a TCP port (USB is COM4, TCP is 127.0.0.1 port 23). So far so good. But I am having connection problems with the data coming from SIMH to the terminal. At 110 baud I only get a few characters before the serial-TCP program hangs with this write-timeout message: 22:24:11: Socket connected to 127.0.0.1:23 22:24:11: SOCK: Unable to write on COM. The port is CLOSED.. <-- this is because I didn't "Get COM" first. 22:24:13: COM4 correctly opened! 22:24:24: System.TimeoutException: The write timed out. at System.IO.Ports.SerialStream.Write(Byte[] array, Int32 offset, Int32 count, Int32 timeout) at System.IO.Ports.SerialPort.Write(Byte[] buffer, Int32 offset, Int32 count) at COMbyTCP.Form.sockClient_dataRecived(Byte[] buffer, Int32 bytesRecived) I tried at 1200 baud and the same problem occurs, I can just get more characters before the terminal screen freezes. Nothing's locked up except the downstream SIMH data (i.e. I can hit Return on the terminal and the TSS/8 dot prompt reappears). It is repeatable regardless of what I am trying to do on the terminal. Only very small outputs come through in their entirety without this error message. I don't think it's the current-loop board, which has an onboard micro fast enough to translate Baudot on the fly. And the receive light stops flickering at the same time the write timeout message pops up. Does anyone know how I can extend the timeout parameter... is this a Windows networking problem, or something flaky in the freeware serial-TCP program? thanks Charles --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From Michael at jongleur.co.uk Sat Sep 14 23:00:48 2019 From: Michael at jongleur.co.uk (Michael Mulhern) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:00:48 +1000 Subject: RetroChallenge RC2019/10 is now open Message-ID: Greetings all, I?ve now taken over custodianship of the RetroChallenge and would like to extend an invitation to any who are interested in joining in this October. Entry details at: http://www.retrochallenge.org Retro COMPUTE ;) -- *Blog: RetroRetrospective ? Fun today with yesterday's gear??.. * *Podcast*: *Retro Computing Roundtable * (Co-Host) From fritzm at fritzm.org Sun Sep 15 16:58:32 2019 From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:58:32 -0700 Subject: FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM UNIBUS memories & docs Message-ID: <38B81460-6169-475C-9AE7-9852DF83E4E6@fritzm.org> Okay, I'm trying to beat back the hoard in my basement before the rainy season starts here in CA: I have a couple of NMOS static RAM UNIBUS address spaces that I picked up from CMU sometime back in the mid-'80s once when they were cleaning house. I've been hauling these around for 30+ years, thinking I would use them with the '11/45 that I picked up at the same time, but as previously discussed here I have a much more practical MS11-L working in that system now. So, I'd be more than happy to pass these one to somebody else who could put them to good use? There are two; they are 5U 19" rack chassis with integrated power supplies and fans. These are card cages with slots for 5 11"x15" cards plugging, into a PCB backplane (big, heavy!) Each chassis contains four fully-populated MICRORAM 3400N memory cards (at 32K words x 18 bits each, each chassis is a full UNIBUS address space); each of the memory cards caries 144 x socketed 4402ACC, with 1977 date codes. Each chassis also has a fifth card, a custom UNIBUS interface card that was developed at CMU, which takes the place of the self-test card in the original units. The units are marked S/N 100001 and 100002, P/N 929331-009A. They are in good shape, but dusty, and with some corrosion evident on the chassis. Have not seen power in several decades, so the power supplies probably need a going over... I also have full documentation (including schematics), and a folder of schematics and some hand-drawn notes for the CMU interface cards. I have dups of the EMM documentation, so could send it to Al if he is interested? Anybody out there interested? I am in Oakland, CA. It would be best to pick these up in person, because they'd probably be $$$ to ship. cheers, --FritzM. From tshoppa at wmata.com Mon Sep 16 12:19:35 2019 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:19:35 +0000 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & Message-ID: The Microram was a multipurpose solid state memory chassis sold by EMM (Electronic Memories and Magnetics) with what we called later in the 1970's a "personality board" that plugged it into each different CPU's backplane. They sold a similar system (maybe even plug compatible at some level) with core planes under "Micromemory" brand name. I see we already have a "emm" directory in bitsavers with docs about some of their core products. From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Sep 16 12:45:51 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:45:51 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would be interested in putting up the later docs I wonder if Guy remembers what these were used for at CMU On 9/16/19 10:19 AM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote: > The Microram was a multipurpose solid state memory chassis sold by EMM (Electronic Memories and Magnetics) with what we called later in the 1970's a "personality board" that plugged it into each different CPU's backplane. They sold a similar system (maybe even plug compatible at some level) with core planes under "Micromemory" brand name. I see we already have a "emm" directory in bitsavers with docs about some of their core products. > From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Sep 16 12:52:03 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:52:03 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> The only thing that I believe would have used these would have been C.MMP. It had 1.2MB of memory on it when I was there. TTFN - Guy > On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:45 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > I would be interested in putting up the later docs > I wonder if Guy remembers what these were used for at CMU > > On 9/16/19 10:19 AM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote: >> The Microram was a multipurpose solid state memory chassis sold by EMM (Electronic Memories and Magnetics) with what we called later in the 1970's a "personality board" that plugged it into each different CPU's backplane. They sold a similar system (maybe even plug compatible at some level) with core planes under "Micromemory" brand name. I see we already have a "emm" directory in bitsavers with docs about some of their core products. >> > From paulkoning at comcast.net Mon Sep 16 12:59:52 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:59:52 -0400 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> > On Sep 16, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > > The only thing that I believe would have used these would have been C.MMP. It had 1.2MB of memory on it when I was there. > > TTFN - Guy It's been a long time since I've heard that reference. Did any of that software get preserved? I wonder how hard it would be to make SIMH handle it. paul From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Sep 16 13:17:45 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:17:45 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> Message-ID: I don?t know. It would be hard to replicate because of the custom HW and the custom uCode that ran on the 11/40s. I even think that the 11/20s were modified as well. So trying to figure that out would be ?interesting?. ;-) There is documentation on bitsavers that covers the custom uCode HW for the 11/40s. The MMU as I recall was also radically different than what was standard on 11/40s (and non-existant on 11/20s?the 11/20 changes started to get to be so large, I believe later on they just ditched the 11/20s and C. was just all 11/40s) to allow for really large memory spaces?I don?t recall what the maximum possible memory on C. was, it did have 1.2MB while I was there. And that?s just the HW. Hydra (the OS that ran on C.MMP) was a capability based system (so you needed the proper capability to do anything). I recall at one point the grad student who was doing work on the file system, ?lost? the root capability to the file system?so it was no longer possible to create new file systems. Since C.MMP was a ?one off? system, don?t expect (even if the SW survives) that there?s an ?installation guide?. ;-) It was pretty organic. Last and not least, all of the code was either PDP-11 assembler or BLISS-11. It was all cross built from the (heavily) modified TOP-10 systems that the CS department was running. Hydra did a number of things that eventually lead to Accent and then Mach (which portions are still in use in the guts of OS X). It was what we would call today a microkernel system in that the kernel was the only thing that ran in privileged mode. Everything else were user processes (file system, drivers, terminal system, etc). As I said, it was a capability based system, so to use something you needed to have a capability to it (files didn?t have Unix style permissions?if you had a capability to a file that capability determined what you could do to the file). It had a number of reliability traits: it could detect failures in HW and in SW and restart the appropriate failed item. In the case of CPUs and memory, it could ?wall off? the failed component can cause diagnostics to be run to either isolate the problem further or determine that the failure is no longer present. TTFN - Guy > On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:59 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > > > >> On Sep 16, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: >> >> The only thing that I believe would have used these would have been C.MMP. It had 1.2MB of memory on it when I was there. >> >> TTFN - Guy > > It's been a long time since I've heard that reference. Did any of that software get preserved? I wonder how hard it would be to make SIMH handle it. > > paul > From fritzm at fritzm.org Mon Sep 16 16:27:29 2019 From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:27:29 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> Message-ID: First off, I've had a couple of follow-ups on these units, so they are spoken for at this point. The member with first dibs has also offered to scan the docs and see that they make their way to Al. I was wondering if these were c.mmp cast-offs? Guy: I encountered these in the CMU computer club hardware room (Doherty Hall basement, I think?) circa 1986. There were a couple of '11/40s adjacent, and those did have some sort of custom writable control store cards. The computer club was cleaning house, so I hauled off an '11/45 with CPU spares that looked pretty stock, the aforementioned memory units, and a rack mount Tek 'scope (about all I could convince my friends to help me haul off campus at the time :-) Not sure what ever happened to the rest of the equipment that was down there. I know they had a couple of working Altos, on a thick net segment with the old vampire transceivers that had the little round glass windows in an aluminum box. And what must have been parts of an earlier PDP (I remember a smallish teletype bolted on to a piece of white Formica desktop.) --FritzM. From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Sep 16 16:53:54 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:53:54 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> Message-ID: 11/40?s were pretty ubiquitous at CMU when I was there and at least as far as I could tell, were all configured pretty much the same (in that they all had custom writable control store). I personally dealt with 3 different sets of 11/40s: A single 11/40 with WCS that I used for doing some image processing work 2 11/40?s tied together with a prototype of C.MMP?s cross point switch C.MMP (16-way PDP11?I saw it running with 4 11/20s and 12 11/40s). At the end the 11/20s were removed and just the 11/40s remained. There were only 2 11/45s that I knew of. The first was the ?front end? that sat in front of all of the terminals and allowed connection to the various 10s (at the time there were 3: 2 KA10s and a KL10), C.MMP and CM*. The other 11/45 ran the XGP (Xerox Graphics Printer)?granddaddy of laser printers so that we could get ?high quality? output (versus line printer). TTFN - Guy > On Sep 16, 2019, at 2:27 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > > First off, I've had a couple of follow-ups on these units, so they are spoken for at this point. > > The member with first dibs has also offered to scan the docs and see that they make their way to Al. > > I was wondering if these were c.mmp cast-offs? Guy: I encountered these in the CMU computer club hardware room (Doherty Hall basement, I think?) circa 1986. There were a couple of '11/40s adjacent, and those did have some sort of custom writable control store cards. > > The computer club was cleaning house, so I hauled off an '11/45 with CPU spares that looked pretty stock, the aforementioned memory units, and a rack mount Tek 'scope (about all I could convince my friends to help me haul off campus at the time :-) > > Not sure what ever happened to the rest of the equipment that was down there. I know they had a couple of working Altos, on a thick net segment with the old vampire transceivers that had the little round glass windows in an aluminum box. And what must have been parts of an earlier PDP (I remember a smallish teletype bolted on to a piece of white Formica desktop.) > > --FritzM. > From fritzm at fritzm.org Mon Sep 16 18:43:45 2019 From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:43:45 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0e8684d4-0ab3-b9b9-03a9-5f1ab497fe6c@fritzm.org> > There were only 2 11/45s that I knew of. ?The first was the ?front end? > that sat in front of all of the terminals and allowed connection to the > various 10s (at the time there were 3: 2 KA10s and a KL10), C.MMP and > CM*. ?The other 11/45 ran the XGP... They had moved on to a Xerox 9700 and DECSYSTEM-20s behind Micom port selectors by the time I first rolled up there in 1984. CS still had a cluster of PERQs in Wean Hall. Not too long after that, the DECSYSTEM-20s were decom'd, and the old terminal clusters were converted over to IBM PCs, Macs, and IBM RT Andrew workstations. --FritzM. From sellam.ismail at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 19:15:55 2019 From: sellam.ismail at gmail.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:15:55 -0700 Subject: Another batch of fresh stuff from Sellam's collection Message-ID: It's time for another batch of exciting stuff from my collection to find its way into yours! Today's batch: Compaq Contura 4/25 Compaq LTE/286 Laptop Compaq Portable III Operations Guide + System Software Packard Bell PB414A Multi-Media PC Radio Shack 1982 TRS-80 Microcomputer Catalog No. RSC-7 Radio Shack 1983 TRS-80 Microcomputer Catalog No. RSC-8 Radio Shack 1985 TRS-80 Microcomputer Catalog No. RSC-12 A Practical Guide to the Tandy 1000SX Heath Computer Systems H-386 Desktop PC Gravis MouseStick GMPU Logitech Wingman Attack Joystick Modular CIrcuit Technology PC EPROM Programmer Atari CX22 Trak-Ball Kingston DataCard KTM-DC16/127 Hard Disk/Memory Expansion Data General How To Use The Nova Computers Manual DEC Digital Products and Applications (1971) VAX Architecture Reference Manual Macintosh PowerBook 1400c Macintosh PowerBook 180 Apple 800K External Drive Apple PC 5.25 Drive AppleCD 300 AppleCD 300e Plus American Megatrends Voyager 486 Motherboard Zenith Data Systems N8003 External CD-ROM Drive Apple LisaDraw Manual Apple Lisa Office System Release 3.0 Manual Apple 486/66 DOS Compatibility Card Asante MC3NB NuBus Ethernet Interface Kingroyal 2-serial, 1-parallel, 1-game Interface STB 2-serial 1-parallel interface Sealevel Systems 3088 dual-port serial card Cardinal Technologies VGA 300 IEV Corp. VIP-2000 Interactive Graphics Controller Datacopy Corp. Datacopy Model III Domex UDS-IS10 SCSI interface Talking Tech Bigmouth Your PC Multi-Lab PCL-711 Analog and Digital I/O Card Danford SEU 3800 multi-port serial card Triad Systems PC-IDC-8 8-port ISA Serial Interface U.S. Digital PC7166 Incremental Encoder Interface Western Digital WD1003V-MM2 HD/FD Controller (Prototype?) Supra SupraExpress 33.6i Voice Modem 3Com EtherLink III 3C509B-TPO Allied Telesis AT-2000T-PNP TP ISA network interface Advanced Logic Research 16-bit VGA/Parallel Iwill SIDE VLB SCSI/IDE/FDC/I-O Controller Adaptec AHA-2940UW Ultra Wide SCSI Controller Berkshire Products PCI PC Watchdog BusLogic BT-958 SCSI-3 Adaptor Network Appliance 110-01579 PCI NVRAM Board Ocean Optics ADC2000-PCI+ A/D Converter Philips TV Tuner PCI Board S&S Research MOTU PCI-324 Audio PCI Interface Smart Modular Technologies 90079 Modem/Sound Combo Board ATI Rage IIc AGP Graphics Card Asus V8170/128M AGP Graphics Card Matrox G45+ AGP Graphics Card IBM 2330364 Token Ring Network Adaptor 16/4 SCO Informix v3.11 for the Apple Lisa 2 SCO Lyrix v3.10 for the Apple Lisa 2 SCO MF/SCO Level II COBOL v2.0 High Performance SCO Multiplan v2.10B for the Apple Lisa 2 SCO Xenix Development System v3.0 for the Apple Lisa 2 SCO Xenix Operating System v3.0 for the Apple Lisa 2 SCO Xenix Text Processing System v3.0 for the Apple Lisa 2 Hands-On BASIC for the IBM PCjr HP 82901M Flexible Disc Drive HP 9885M Flexible Disk Drive HP 10247A Clock Probe HP 10248B Eight Bit Probe HP 10248C Eight Bit Probe (Pod 1) HP 10248C Eight Bit Probe (Pod 2) HP 10248C Eight Bit Probe (Pod 3) HP 10248C Eight Bit Probe (Pod 4) HP 10248C Eight Bit Probe (1610B) Convergent Technologies NGEN XM-003 Memory Module Wico Command Control Joystick Links to the newly listed items can be found in the usual place: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit?pli=1&fbclid=IwAR29aeaPInesPowqSLeq_ElmtOwSThjfRAJyW9T_oN6mnjPPt4wO1CchMGQ#gid=949372371&range=A1 As always, please contact me directly by e-mail to inquire about an item. Thanks! Sellam From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Sep 17 08:55:01 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:55:01 -0400 Subject: Fwd: VAX + Spectre References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> Message-ID: <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. paul > Begin forwarded message: > > From: coypu at sdf.org > Subject: VAX + Spectre > Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT > To: port-vax at netbsd.org > > So, this is a bug report: > https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 > > GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. > Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the > first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. From healyzh at avanthar.com Tue Sep 17 09:47:50 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 07:47:50 -0700 Subject: [Simh] VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> Message-ID: <48BC4FE9-D591-4185-B90A-BFC341EC7F1E@avanthar.com> It might be worth asking on comp.os.vms as well, it?s one of the few USENET groups that seems to still be active. Zane > On Sep 17, 2019, at 6:55 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > paul > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: coypu at sdf.org >> Subject: VAX + Spectre >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT >> To: port-vax at netbsd.org >> >> So, this is a bug report: >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 >> >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Sep 17 10:06:10 2019 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 08:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> from Paul Koning via cctalk at "Sep 17, 19 09:55:01 am" Message-ID: <201909171506.x8HF6AlM22282442@floodgap.com> > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative > execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others > here have a lot more knowledge. However, even speculative execution isn't enough to make Spectre possible or feasible. For example, the PowerPC G3 and 7400 CPUs speculatively execute, but because indirect branches can only be done on special-purpose registers and the G3 and 7400 halt speculative execution until the SPR is loaded with the destination address, this means they won't speculatively execute after any indirect branch in code and makes them resistant to the currently known variants of Spectre. Given how weird the VAX can be in some respects, I wouldn't be surprised if similar idiosyncratic behaviours exist that confound such attacks similarly. http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2018/01/actual-field-testing-of-spectre-on.html -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- When you're in it up to your ears, keep your mouth shut. ------------------- From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Tue Sep 17 10:17:30 2019 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 17:17:30 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7e4c0643d258e08da7e1eb99c490fd043c9f3a15.camel@agj.net> m?n 2019-09-16 klockan 11:17 -0700 skrev Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk: > > And that?s just the HW. Hydra (the OS that ran on C.MMP) was a > capability based system (so you needed the proper capability to do > anything). I recall at one point the grad student who was doing work > on the file system, ?lost? the root capability to the file system?so > it was no longer possible to create new file systems. > > Which also means that for boot-strap you need to create a correct fully populated binary dump of all the file system in the system. A dump which is sane which regards to capabilities and user capabilities .... It is a little like kick-starting a database system ie writing the system database (pg_system) into such a state that is it possible to correctly run for example: --- create tablespace 'stefan'; create schema 'pg'; --- and so on... From elson at pico-systems.com Tue Sep 17 10:48:09 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:48:09 -0500 Subject: Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5D810039.4070105@pico-systems.com> On 09/17/2019 08:55 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > You need an extremely high resolution timer to detect slight differences in execution time of speculatively-executed threads. The VAX 11/780 certainly did not do speculative execution, and my guess is that all VAXen did not, either. Also, I don't think the timer was high enough resolution to detect such a difference. The Alpha did do speculative execution, so it is remotely possible that you could play such games on that platform. Without a deep understanding of how these exploits really work, I'm still a bit skeptical that it could actually be performed on real-world systems in a shared host data center. Jon From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Sep 17 11:13:53 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:13:53 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS FTGH: EMM / CMU MICRORAM memories & In-Reply-To: <7e4c0643d258e08da7e1eb99c490fd043c9f3a15.camel@agj.net> References: <37C611BF-FFE3-41EA-80AB-3659E58B38FC@shiresoft.com> <34768119-BD83-47BE-861D-FAF2CAD4BF61@comcast.net> <7e4c0643d258e08da7e1eb99c490fd043c9f3a15.camel@agj.net> Message-ID: > On Sep 17, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Stefan Skoglund wrote: > > m?n 2019-09-16 klockan 11:17 -0700 skrev Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk: >> >> And that?s just the HW. Hydra (the OS that ran on C.MMP) was a >> capability based system (so you needed the proper capability to do >> anything). I recall at one point the grad student who was doing work >> on the file system, ?lost? the root capability to the file system?so >> it was no longer possible to create new file systems. >> >> > > Which also means that for boot-strap you need to create a correct fully > populated binary dump of all the file system in the system. > A dump which is sane which regards to capabilities and user > capabilities .... > > It is a little like kick-starting a database system ie writing the > system database (pg_system) into such a state that is it possible to > correctly run for example: > --- > create tablespace 'stefan'; > create schema 'pg'; > --- > and so on? > The problem (and I?d be thrilled to be wrong) is that the probability of having a binary dump of Hydra is 0 for small values of 0. Part of the issue is that the C.MMP has a few RP06 drives (4-6?). If it were ever saved, it would have to be to 9-track tapes and I don?t recall any sort of backup facilities. The RP06 packs *might* still be around but I wouldn?t hold out too much hope for them either. TTFN - Guy From clemc at ccc.com Tue Sep 17 10:42:28 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:42:28 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> Message-ID: Paul - be careful. All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch prediction are suspect. Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent. I tweaked him when it all came out and said - look at what you did. What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they first published about it. And the fact is that it took 40 years before someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 months to reduce it to practice. ? On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning wrote: > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving > speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I > suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > paul > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *coypu at sdf.org > *Subject: **VAX + Spectre* > *Date: *September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT > *To: *port-vax at netbsd.org > > So, this is a bug report: > https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 > > GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. > Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the > first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. > > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Sep 17 12:40:07 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 13:40:07 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> Message-ID: <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable. The original paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM. The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative execution. If no, then we're done, the answer is easy. (That was the case when the question was asked for PDP11s.) But if yes, then it becomes necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like. I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown" vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a DEC engineer to do. paul > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole wrote: > > Paul - be careful. All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch prediction are suspect. Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent. I tweaked him when it all came out and said - look at what you did. > > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they first published about it. And the fact is that it took 40 years before someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 months to reduce it to practice. > ? > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning wrote: > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > paul > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: coypu at sdf.org >> Subject: VAX + Spectre >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT >> To: port-vax at netbsd.org >> >> So, this is a bug report: >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 >> >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh From imp at bsdimp.com Tue Sep 17 12:49:41 2019 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 18:49:41 +0100 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable. The original > paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM. > > The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all > the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative > execution. If no, then we're done, the answer is easy. (That was the case > when the question was asked for PDP11s.) But if yes, then it becomes > necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites > are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like. > Early Vaxen are immune. Latter day ones require careful analysis since they have some out of order things. I'm not expert enough to know for sure, though, and the latter day stuff is half remembered from marketing material for one of the final generations of Vax big iron before Alpha drove that away... But I don't think many of these old beasts are still running even if my half remembered stuff is right... I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown" > vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a > designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a > DEC engineer to do. I'm agree. Warner paul > > > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole wrote: > > > > Paul - be careful. All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch > prediction are suspect. Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on > 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent. I tweaked him > when it all came out and said - look at what you did. > > > > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they > first published about it. And the fact is that it took 40 years before > someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security > exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 > months to reduce it to practice. > > ? > > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning > wrote: > > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving > speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I > suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > > > paul > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >> From: coypu at sdf.org > >> Subject: VAX + Spectre > >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT > >> To: port-vax at netbsd.org > >> > >> So, this is a bug report: > >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 > >> > >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. > >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the > >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Simh mailing list > > Simh at trailing-edge.com > > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > From allisonportable at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 13:35:16 2019 From: allisonportable at gmail.com (allison) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> On 9/17/19 1:49 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > >> Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable. The original >> paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM. >> >> The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all >> the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative >> execution. If no, then we're done, the answer is easy. (That was the case >> when the question was asked for PDP11s.) But if yes, then it becomes >> necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites >> are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like. >> > > Early Vaxen are immune. Latter day ones require careful analysis since they > have some out of order things. I'm not expert enough to know for sure, > though, and the latter day stuff is half remembered from marketing material > for one of the final generations of Vax big iron before Alpha drove that > away... But I don't think many of these old beasts are still running even > if my half remembered stuff is right... > > I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown" >> vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a >> designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a >> DEC engineer to do. > > > I'm agree. > > Warner > > paul >> >>> On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole wrote: >>> >>> Paul - be careful. All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch >> prediction are suspect. Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on >> 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent. I tweaked him >> when it all came out and said - look at what you did. >>> >>> What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they >> first published about it. And the fact is that it took 40 years before >> someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security >> exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 >> months to reduce it to practice. >>> ? >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning >> wrote: >>> "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving >> speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I >> suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. >>> >>> paul >>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>> From: coypu at sdf.org >>>> Subject: VAX + Spectre >>>> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT >>>> To: port-vax at netbsd.org >>>> >>>> So, this is a bug report: >>>> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 >>>> >>>> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. >>>> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the >>>> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Simh mailing list >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> I see this as a question of the number of angels that can dance on the point of a pin. But could GCC compile code that has system access to do nasties is a more complex question. Then again how does it get system prives to start with? First VAX represents more than a dozen different implementations from the 780 though the many CMOS versions so what might be an issue for one is likely not for another. The other half is the OS in use may be sufficiently able to keep rogue processes confined. Of course there are the LAVC and bus connected multi-cpu clustered systems. In the end its mostly meaningless as the only reliable way to take a VAX down is trip on the power cord, assuming you can get to it. Allison From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Sep 17 13:48:12 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:48:12 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> > On Sep 17, 2019, at 2:35 PM, allison via cctalk wrote: > >>> ... > > I see this as a question of the number of angels that can dance on the > point of a pin. But could GCC compile code that has system access to > do nasties is a more complex question. Then again how does it get > system prives to start with? The issue with Spectre (and Meltdown, on the small set of architectures where that applies) is that it discloses supposedly protected data to unprivileged processes. It isn't a case of playing games starting from system privs; it's a case of learning secret data (perhaps passwords from freed buffers) that were intended to be invisible to your process. I'd recommend the full academic paper on these attacks by Kocher et al. to anyone with a serious interest in processor architectures -- which fits much of the membership of these lists. Even if you don't work with machines that have this issue, or now that it has been fixed in places where it does apply, it still is a marvelous piece of work and understanding how it works is a great learning exercise. I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in one paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown attack". paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 17 14:08:52 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in one > paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown attack". I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating systems class. One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on security, than on being able to transparently and without user action, add smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish." (YES, that's where I got that phrase from.) From allisonportable at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 14:28:58 2019 From: allisonportable at gmail.com (allison) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:28:58 -0400 Subject: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5f7e9056-038a-8541-6e6c-21fe2f543f96@gmail.com> On 9/17/19 3:08 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in >> one paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown >> attack". > > I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating > systems class.? One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) > skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for > MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on > security, than on being able to transparently and without user action, > add smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish." > > (YES, that's where I got that phrase from.) Fred, I love it. My feeling is if you don't stop the mongrel hordes at the door you've lost. After all wasn't it Vonada that indicated computer are at best partially tested? Allison From lproven at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 15:58:11 2019 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:58:11 +0200 Subject: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 21:09, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) > skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for > MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on security, > than on being able to transparently and without user action, add > smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish." ? > Windows _is_ Bells and Whistles, plus a couple of gongs. Don't forget the horns, the custard pies and the water-powered whirling knives. -- mlooney and Red Drag Diva ? -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From clemc at ccc.com Tue Sep 17 13:01:28 2019 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:01:28 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> Message-ID: I can simplify the question a bit. I have to be careful as I work for Intel and I've been involved with a small bit of it on our end and some of the lawyers are a bit touchy about the whole situation. So I need to add - these opinions are my own not necessarily my employers. Basically, if you have a CPU and microcode design that is post the IBM AGS that uses any type of branch prediction or speculative execution, the processor is now suspect. But you need to do the analysis originally proposed in the German paper. It helps to have the google teams work next to you when you do that analysis because you now have a recipe for how to apply the ideas, but that is not the only way to apply them. Before then, nobody had thought about the problem. While you point out the attack is carried out in the Google paper using the MMU, the attack is against the internal instruction predictor. Since the original Google paper, a number of other ways of attacks against the microcode have been reduced to practice by other teams. In the case of the Vax ISA, the original 780 and 750, I do not believe any attempt at prediction was in the microcode, but that would take someone like Bob to verify. In all cases, I was never part of the Vax CPU development, so I'm not going to be able to answer/I really don't know. But I observe that by the time of the 9000 and the 8000 series Vaxen there had been enough noise in the community, particularly by Patterson et al, in the whole RISC vs. CISC front had certainly caught the attention in the CPU designer's eyes. The techniques that were being considered were completely and fully discussed in the open literature. I certainly had read Cocke's and Russ's papers by then in grad school. I have to believe the same was true of the folks in DEC's HW team. Certainly, by Alpha time when I was around, those ideas were well-baked at DEC and I would be quite surprised if a similar attack could not be performed against EV5 and EV6. Bottom line, you need to really look at the microcode and very it. Clem ? On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 1:40 PM Paul Koning wrote: > Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable. The original > paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM. > > The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all > the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative > execution. If no, then we're done, the answer is easy. (That was the case > when the question was asked for PDP11s.) But if yes, then it becomes > necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites > are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like. > > I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown" > vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a > designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a > DEC engineer to do. > > paul > > > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole wrote: > > > > Paul - be careful. All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch > prediction are suspect. Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on > 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent. I tweaked him > when it all came out and said - look at what you did. > > > > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they > first published about it. And the fact is that it took 40 years before > someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security > exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 > months to reduce it to practice. > > ? > > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning > wrote: > > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving > speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I > suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > > > paul > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >> From: coypu at sdf.org > >> Subject: VAX + Spectre > >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT > >> To: port-vax at netbsd.org > >> > >> So, this is a bug report: > >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 > >> > >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. > >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the > >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Simh mailing list > > Simh at trailing-edge.com > > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > From ed at groenenberg.net Tue Sep 17 14:00:37 2019 From: ed at groenenberg.net (Ed Groenenberg) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 21:00:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: KiCad pcb file In-Reply-To: <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <50750.83.128.128.49.1568746837.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> Hello. I'm looking for a PCB layout file / template of a 2 slot Unibus card, which I want to use in KiCad. Can someone help me with this? Thank you, Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta 😆 From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue Sep 17 17:51:24 2019 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:51:24 +0000 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net>, Message-ID: The main difference between Meltdown and the various Spectre problems was that Meltdown didn't require you to find code that runs in protected space to cause the sideband effects. Spectre required knowing about specific code running in protected mode to do the dirty work for you. You just pass some tool, with privileged execution, the location you want to probe and then watch the sideband effect. This latest one is bad for a touch typer or those that always enter the password in the same way. It looks for the timing of when you hit keys and then makes guesses on what keys would typically take that length of time to type. Most any processor running multiple users might be susceptible to this one. It does depend on the typical touch typer trained person or at least one of the typical two finger typers. It works too good to let go by as not an issue. Even dithering the processor's timer enough to avoid the other problems isn't enough to hid this one. People type to slow compared to the processors cycle time. Dwight ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Clem Cole via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 11:01 AM To: Paul Koning Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; SIMH Subject: Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre I can simplify the question a bit. I have to be careful as I work for Intel and I've been involved with a small bit of it on our end and some of the lawyers are a bit touchy about the whole situation. So I need to add - these opinions are my own not necessarily my employers. Basically, if you have a CPU and microcode design that is post the IBM AGS that uses any type of branch prediction or speculative execution, the processor is now suspect. But you need to do the analysis originally proposed in the German paper. It helps to have the google teams work next to you when you do that analysis because you now have a recipe for how to apply the ideas, but that is not the only way to apply them. Before then, nobody had thought about the problem. While you point out the attack is carried out in the Google paper using the MMU, the attack is against the internal instruction predictor. Since the original Google paper, a number of other ways of attacks against the microcode have been reduced to practice by other teams. In the case of the Vax ISA, the original 780 and 750, I do not believe any attempt at prediction was in the microcode, but that would take someone like Bob to verify. In all cases, I was never part of the Vax CPU development, so I'm not going to be able to answer/I really don't know. But I observe that by the time of the 9000 and the 8000 series Vaxen there had been enough noise in the community, particularly by Patterson et al, in the whole RISC vs. CISC front had certainly caught the attention in the CPU designer's eyes. The techniques that were being considered were completely and fully discussed in the open literature. I certainly had read Cocke's and Russ's papers by then in grad school. I have to believe the same was true of the folks in DEC's HW team. Certainly, by Alpha time when I was around, those ideas were well-baked at DEC and I would be quite surprised if a similar attack could not be performed against EV5 and EV6. Bottom line, you need to really look at the microcode and very it. Clem ? On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 1:40 PM Paul Koning wrote: > Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable. The original > paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM. > > The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all > the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative > execution. If no, then we're done, the answer is easy. (That was the case > when the question was asked for PDP11s.) But if yes, then it becomes > necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites > are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like. > > I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown" > vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a > designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a > DEC engineer to do. > > paul > > > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole wrote: > > > > Paul - be careful. All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch > prediction are suspect. Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on > 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent. I tweaked him > when it all came out and said - look at what you did. > > > > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they > first published about it. And the fact is that it took 40 years before > someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security > exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 > months to reduce it to practice. > > ? > > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning > wrote: > > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving > speculative execution. I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I > suspect others here have a lot more knowledge. > > > > paul > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >> From: coypu at sdf.org > >> Subject: VAX + Spectre > >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT > >> To: port-vax at netbsd.org > >> > >> So, this is a bug report: > >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811 > >> > >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work. > >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the > >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Simh mailing list > > Simh at trailing-edge.com > > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > From dab at froghouse.org Tue Sep 17 18:54:31 2019 From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:54:31 -0400 Subject: KiCad pcb file In-Reply-To: <50750.83.128.128.49.1568746837.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <50750.83.128.128.49.1568746837.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> Message-ID: <10be9e6a-8df2-f675-7501-1f079fff205f@froghouse.org> On 9/17/19 15:00, Ed Groenenberg via cctalk wrote: > Hello. > > I'm looking for a PCB layout file / template of a 2 slot Unibus card, > which I want to use in KiCad. > > Can someone help me with this? Here's a KiCad template for a double-height QBUS card.? I haven't verified it or cleaned it up but it ought to make a good starting point and deleting the QBUS bits will be easy.? Eventually I'll need to do a quad-height Unibus card too. http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-template.tar.gz If you're building your own DEC boards, this is the best dimensional diagram I've come across; I pulled it out of a uVAX manual.? The one bug I've found in it is the "1.00?.010" in the corner where the edge fingers start.? I think it's supposed to be "0.100?.010" but I'd double-check that against other diagrams or measure a real board. http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-dimensions.pdf From paulkoning at comcast.net Tue Sep 17 19:19:36 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 20:19:36 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> > On Sep 17, 2019, at 6:51 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote: > > ... > This latest one is bad for a touch typer or those that always enter the password in the same way. It looks for the timing of when you hit keys and then makes guesses on what keys would typically take that length of time to type. Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up in the past few years. Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue. One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks. (Look for a paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.) The fix for this is message padding. The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening to the sound it makes while decrypting. The fix for this is timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop. (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.) It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms. paul From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Sep 17 20:17:13 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:17:13 -0600 Subject: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <43544eba-e539-758b-3ec0-5dfe810ffaa3@jetnet.ab.ca> On 9/17/2019 1:08 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in >> one paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown >> attack". > > I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating > systems class.? One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) > skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for > MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on > security, than on being able to transparently and without user action, > add smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish." > > (YES, that's where I got that phrase from.) > I say the concept of a) Time sharing and B) GUI and c) 8 bit bytes and D) the C programming language have caused computer architecture to go to dogs ... Lets not forget some FORTH chips have been to known to meltdown without any attacks just unlucky coding. Ben. Is true the yodelling jellyfish makes me wait 45 seconds for pop up window to open after clicking on a menu item like "OPEN FILE"? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Sep 17 20:19:58 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:19:58 -0600 Subject: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <7b294ccf-31b7-84dd-4a6e-782b5af6194c@gmail.com> <619AF027-708C-448C-A80C-1B55345EBEC8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0d0261b9-4877-875b-f4a8-85154171c1a9@jetnet.ab.ca> >> Windows _is_ Bells and Whistles, plus a couple of gongs. No ... The GONGS is the chinese knock off. From lproven at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 02:42:22 2019 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:42:22 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > ... > Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up in the past few years. Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue. > > One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks. (Look for a paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.) The fix for this is message padding. > > The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening to the sound it makes while decrypting. The fix for this is timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop. (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.) > > It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms. ... Wow. *Wow.* Thanks for those! -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Sep 18 11:19:42 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:19:42 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <81FF4753-AB8D-428E-9CC4-42E1CBC56387@shiresoft.com> > On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: >>> ... >> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up in the past few years. Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue. >> >> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks. (Look for a paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.) The fix for this is message padding. >> >> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening to the sound it makes while decrypting. The fix for this is timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop. (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.) >> >> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms. > > ... Wow. > > *Wow.* > > Thanks for those! In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into. Admittedly it was relatively low fidelity, but yikes! TTFN - Guy From chrise at pobox.com Wed Sep 18 11:59:34 2019 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:59:34 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <81FF4753-AB8D-428E-9CC4-42E1CBC56387@shiresoft.com> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> <81FF4753-AB8D-428E-9CC4-42E1CBC56387@shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <20190918165934.GA15746@n0jcf.net> On Wednesday (09/18/2019 at 09:19AM -0700), Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk > > wrote: > >>> ... > >> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up in the past few years. Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue. > >> > >> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks. (Look for a paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.) The fix for this is message padding. > >> > >> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening to the sound it makes while decrypting. The fix for this is timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop. (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.) > >> > >> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms. > > > > ... Wow. > > > > *Wow.* > > > > Thanks for those! > > In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into. Admittedly it was relatively low fidelity, but yikes! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking -- Chris Elmquist From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Sep 18 12:14:00 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:14:00 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: <20190918165934.GA15746@n0jcf.net> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> <81FF4753-AB8D-428E-9CC4-42E1CBC56387@shiresoft.com> <20190918165934.GA15746@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: > On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Chris Elmquist wrote: > > On Wednesday (09/18/2019 at 09:19AM -0700), Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: >> >> >>> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk >>> wrote: >>>>> ... >>>> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up in the past few years. Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue. >>>> >>>> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks. (Look for a paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.) The fix for this is message padding. >>>> >>>> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening to the sound it makes while decrypting. The fix for this is timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop. (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.) >>>> >>>> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms. >>> >>> ... Wow. >>> >>> *Wow.* >>> >>> Thanks for those! >> >> In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into. Admittedly it was relatively low fidelity, but yikes! > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking Cool! Yea, I had to make a trip to a ?secure facility? once and there were entire ?tempest? rooms with conditioned power and no external communications equipment. The room itself (think *large*) was a faraday cage with a vault door that was kept closed when ever there was sensitive stuff going on. Since I didn?t have a security clearance, the door was open and everywhere I went there were red lights in the rooms/halls that I was in that would be on to indicate that no sensitive information should be discussed (makes you feel really wanted). ;-) TTFN - Guy From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Sep 18 13:32:21 2019 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (jwest at classiccmp.org) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:32:21 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old Message-ID: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> I know some peeps here are phone pholks?..See www.ezwind.net/phonestuff One is an old ?bell system western electric?. It seems to have a few 66 blocks just under the cover, a power supply, and some kind of modules that plug in. The other is a Nortel Networks ICS. It feels way too light, not sure if anything is in it. There is another piece of Nortel gear on the wall, seems to be some kind of wireless? thingy called Nortel Networks Call Pilot 100. I know zilch about phone systems, and don?t want to know anything about phone systems ? They were on the wall of a warehouse telco closet that my client just rented and we need the space on the dmarc wall for a rack. If someone wants them, and is willing to pay ship/pack (ups) from 63146 let me know within 2 days or they go to the skip. J From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Sep 18 13:33:35 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available Message-ID: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> So I have just acquired a copy of the service manual for the RP04 drive (ISS model 733). Does anyone have an immediate need to look at this? If so, I can put it on the top of the 'to scan' stack. Noel From ethan at 757.org Wed Sep 18 13:38:23 2019 From: ethan at 757.org (Ethan O'Toole) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 14:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > The other is a Nortel Networks ICS. It feels way too light, not sure if > anything is in it. There is another piece of Nortel gear on the wall, > seems to be some kind of wireless? thingy called Nortel Networks Call > Pilot 100. Call Pilot is an automated call routing plus voicemail system (thanks google) that is likely tied to the ICS. ICS should be the PBX. - Ethan From Kevin at RawFedDogs.net Wed Sep 18 15:07:55 2019 From: Kevin at RawFedDogs.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:07:55 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20190918200755.GB30298@RawFedDogs.net> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 01:32:21PM -0500, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > I know zilch about phone systems, and don?t want to know anything about > phone systems ? They were on the wall of a warehouse telco closet that my > client just rented and we need the space on the dmarc wall for a rack. If > someone wants them, and is willing to pay ship/pack (ups) from 63146 let > me know within 2 days or they go to the skip. I sent a short replied off list to express interest. I'm not sure what it is about phone systems. I've had a fascination with them for years, especially PBX type systems. I've only recently started setting up a home PBX style phone system. At the moment I have a couple of Cisco IP phones and a few analog phones from the 1930's and 1940's working using Cisco CME on a 3845 router as a phone controller. I'm about to take a stab at punching down a 25 pair cable on a 66 block to connect to a Cisco VG224 voice gateway, which would enable me to connect 24 analog extensions to my current system. I don't know why I'm doing this. I live alone. I don't need to be able to call from one room to another in my house. I've been eyeing 1A2 key systems and Nortel PBX systems for a while, not to mention Mitel, Avaya Definity, and more. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. From p.gebhardt at ymail.com Wed Sep 18 15:22:37 2019 From: p.gebhardt at ymail.com (P Gebhardt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <947278154.12487088.1568838157703@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Noel, I am very glad that you're the one who put hands on it. I planned to get it with the same intention to scan it for bitsavers, but then I got distracted and missed it! Best regards, Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de Am Mittwoch, 18. September 2019, 20:33:44 MESZ hat Noel Chiappa via cctalk Folgendes geschrieben: So I have just acquired a copy of the service manual for the RP04 drive (ISS model 733). Does anyone have an immediate need to look at this? If so, I can put it on the top of the 'to scan' stack. ? ? Noel From systems.glitch at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 16:09:06 2019 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:09:06 -0400 Subject: KiCad pcb file In-Reply-To: <10be9e6a-8df2-f675-7501-1f079fff205f@froghouse.org> References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <50750.83.128.128.49.1568746837.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> <10be9e6a-8df2-f675-7501-1f079fff205f@froghouse.org> Message-ID: We have to clean it up but we've got the pattern for a quad height prototype board. I can share the outline and edge connectors once it's 100% verified. Thanks, Jonathan On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:54 PM David Bridgham via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 9/17/19 15:00, Ed Groenenberg via cctalk wrote: > > Hello. > > > > I'm looking for a PCB layout file / template of a 2 slot Unibus card, > > which I want to use in KiCad. > > > > Can someone help me with this? > > > Here's a KiCad template for a double-height QBUS card. I haven't > verified it or cleaned it up but it ought to make a good starting point > and deleting the QBUS bits will be easy. Eventually I'll need to do a > quad-height Unibus card too. > > http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-template.tar.gz > > If you're building your own DEC boards, this is the best dimensional > diagram I've come across; I pulled it out of a uVAX manual. The one bug > I've found in it is the "1.00?.010" in the corner where the edge fingers > start. I think it's supposed to be "0.100?.010" but I'd double-check > that against other diagrams or measure a real board. > > http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-dimensions.pdf > > > From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Sep 18 16:17:26 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: phone systems, old and less-old Message-ID: <20190918211726.75BEB18C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Kevin Monceaux > I'm not sure what it is about phone systems. ... I don't know why I'm > doing this. Oh, and the rest of us have a real use/need for old, slow, small (by modern standards) systems that use a ton of power? :-) Noel From elson at pico-systems.com Wed Sep 18 20:16:37 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:16:37 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> On 09/18/2019 01:32 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > I know some peeps here are phone pholks?..See www.ezwind.net/phonestuff > > > > Oh, my Gosh! the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system. If you are OLD enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red hold button below the rotary dial? That is what that unit supports, the 565 phone. Jon From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 18 20:27:20 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > Oh, my Gosh! the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system. If you are OLD > enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red hold button > below the rotary dial? That is what that unit supports, the 565 phone. Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon connector (RJ21), "Centronics"! From cclist at sydex.com Wed Sep 18 20:34:55 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:34:55 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> On 9/18/19 6:16 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: ? > Oh, my Gosh!? the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system.? If you are > OLD enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red > hold button below the rotary dial?? That is what that unit supports, the > 565 phone. You have to be OLD to have used these? Golly, maybe I really am OLD. There were touch-tone later versions also. Hooked to a KSU with the wonderful 50 wire cable. I remember that our (no dial at all) phone number was Sheffield 2118-W. (Party line, don'tcha know). My grandmother's was 46 (no exchange or dial; rural phone company). Anyone collect the old Rolm (IBM) PBX stuff? --Chuck From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Sep 18 20:36:07 2019 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sep 18, 2019, at 11:32, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > > I know some peeps here are phone pholks?..See www.ezwind.net/phonestuff > > > > One is an old ?bell system western electric?. It seems to have a few 66 blocks just under the cover, a power supply, and some kind of modules that plug in. I think you might have a 1A2 key system there (this based on the 400Ds up top). Kind of want but do not need. I see other (and closer) interest has been expressed and that is good. > The other is a Nortel Networks ICS. It feels way too light, not sure if anything is in it. There is another piece of Nortel gear on the wall, seems to be some kind of wireless? thingy called Nortel Networks Call Pilot 100. That is why you want the 1A2. It looks substantial hanging on the wall with those 25-pair cables to the key sets. It feels substantial while you?re working to get it hung on the wall. And it whirs and clicks in ways that the fully electronic key systems and PBXs don?t. -Frank McConnell From nw.johnson at ieee.org Wed Sep 18 20:37:50 2019 From: nw.johnson at ieee.org (Nigel Johnson) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 21:37:50 -0400 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: Alleluia! A kindred soul!? I have spent the latter half of my life trying to tell people that the Centronics Data Computer Co of Hudson NJ NEVER used a 50-pin connector!? The Amp 57-10360 would have been a 57-10500 if they had :-) cheers, Nigel On 18/09/2019 21:27, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: >> Oh, my Gosh!? the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system.? If you are >> OLD enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red >> hold button below the rotary dial?? That is what that unit supports, >> the 565 phone. > > Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon > connector (RJ21),? "Centronics"! -- Nigel Johnson MSc., MIEEE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591 If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. Nigel Johnson Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message From cclist at sydex.com Wed Sep 18 20:41:41 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:41:41 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> On 9/18/19 6:27 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon > connector (RJ21),? "Centronics"! We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors. I'm sure that that's also a misnomer. --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 18 21:23:38 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> Message-ID: >> Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon >> connector (RJ21),? "Centronics"! On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors. I'm sure that that's > also a misnomer. I still believe that that is the correct name. I've always assumed that that was Amphenol's name for that line of connector when they invented it. I also assumed that "blue ribbon" was a reference to the blue first-prize ribbons at county fair type contests. Although a friend claimed that that name was unintentional, since instead of pins, it uses "ribbon contacts", hence also "micro ribbon connector". and many of them had a BLUE plastic center section. From elson at pico-systems.com Wed Sep 18 22:10:19 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:10:19 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D82F19B.3090808@pico-systems.com> On 09/18/2019 08:27 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: >> Oh, my Gosh! the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone >> system. If you are OLD enough, remember the phones with >> 5 line select buttons and a red hold button below the >> rotary dial? That is what that unit supports, the 565 >> phone. > > Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature > ribbon connector (RJ21), "Centronics"! > Nope, AMP mini-blue ribbon. Jon From elson at pico-systems.com Wed Sep 18 22:15:09 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:15:09 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> Message-ID: <5D82F2BD.9080404@pico-systems.com> On 09/18/2019 09:23 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >>> Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin >>> miniature ribbon >>> connector (RJ21), "Centronics"! > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors. I'm sure >> that that's >> also a misnomer. > > I still believe that that is the correct name. > I've always assumed that that was Amphenol's name for that > line of connector when they invented it. I also assumed > that "blue ribbon" was a reference to the blue first-prize > ribbons at county fair type contests. > > Although a friend claimed that that name was > unintentional, since instead of pins, it uses "ribbon > contacts", hence also "micro ribbon connector". and many > of them had a BLUE plastic center section. > The original Amphenol connector was about 3 X the contact spacing of the micro-blue ribbon connector, but basically the same design. They used Diallyl pthalate insulators. I don't know if these are just always dyed blue, or the chemical makeup makes them blue, but it is a deep blue color. So, that's where the blue in the name comes from. The contacts are punched out of a ribbon of gold-plated beryllium copper, so that's where the ribbon in the name comes from. Jon From cclist at sydex.com Wed Sep 18 23:05:07 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 21:05:07 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> Message-ID: <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> One aspect of the RJ21 coding that's always puzzled me was the ordering of the colors. 25 pairs, where White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank Blue Orange Green Brown Gray So the first pair would be White-Blue and the last (25th) would be Violet-Gray Does anyone know where the odd ordering (contrary to electronics color code) originated? --Chuck From Kevin at RawFedDogs.net Thu Sep 19 11:52:09 2019 From: Kevin at RawFedDogs.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:52:09 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> Message-ID: <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 06:34:55PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > You have to be OLD to have used these? Golly, maybe I really am OLD. No. I encountered similar phones at a Service Merchandise I worked at in the early '90s. They were connected to some type of early PBX system. I wish I knew more about it. > My grandmother's was 46 (no exchange or dial; rural phone company). That reminds me of an early Lassie episode. Lassie was going blind, and Jeff took her into the city to a human eye doctor. The doctor asked Jeff for his phone number. Jeff replied, "There's no number. Just one long ring, two short ... Jenny knows." Jenny was the Calverton switchboard operator. > Anyone collect the old Rolm (IBM) PBX stuff? No, but if I ever come across any I might. Having worked in z/OS and AS/400 operations for a couple of decades I've developed a fondness for IBM gear. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. From Kevin at RawFedDogs.net Thu Sep 19 11:56:04 2019 From: Kevin at RawFedDogs.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:56:04 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> Message-ID: <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:05:07PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > 25 pairs, where > > White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank > Blue Orange Green Brown Gray >From what I've heard and read, where a 25 pair cable is concerned, it's slate, not gray. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. From allisonportable at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 12:33:20 2019 From: allisonportable at gmail.com (allison) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:33:20 -0400 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: On 9/19/19 12:56 PM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:05:07PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> 25 pairs, where >> >> White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank >> Blue Orange Green Brown Gray > > From what I've heard and read, where a 25 pair cable is concerned, it's > slate, not gray. > > > Grey or slate for outer jacket and the listed colors for wire pairs or groups of pairs in the cable. Allison From cclist at sydex.com Thu Sep 19 13:23:38 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:23:38 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: <9f75a62b-4f99-7c4d-66b9-a6800629a555@sydex.com> On 9/19/19 9:56 AM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:05:07PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> 25 pairs, where >> >> White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank >> Blue Orange Green Brown Gray > >>From what I've heard and read, where a 25 pair cable is concerned, it's > slate, not gray. What's in a name? It looked gray to me. --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Sep 19 13:43:55 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <5D82F2BD.9080404@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <5D82F2BD.9080404@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: >>>> Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon >>>> connector (RJ21), "Centronics"! >>> We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors. I'm sure that that's >>> also a misnomer. >> I still believe that that is the correct name. >> I've always assumed that that was Amphenol's name for that line of >> connector when they invented it. I also assumed that "blue ribbon" was a >> reference to the blue first-prize ribbons at county fair type contests. >> Although a friend claimed that that name was unintentional, since instead >> of pins, it uses "ribbon contacts", hence also "micro ribbon connector". >> and many of them had a BLUE plastic center section. On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson wrote: > The original Amphenol connector was about 3 X the contact spacing of the > micro-blue ribbon > connector, but basically the same design. They used Diallyl pthalate > insulators. I don't know if these are just always dyed blue, or the chemical > makeup makes them blue, but it is a deep blue color. So, that's where the > blue in the name comes from. The contacts are punched out of a ribbon of > gold-plated beryllium copper, so that's where the ribbon in the name comes > from. Thank you. I appreciate the detailed explanation. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From cclist at sydex.com Thu Sep 19 13:46:41 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:46:41 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: <40e49850-aeff-b1b0-62d6-277eebacbde4@sydex.com> On 9/19/19 9:56 AM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:05:07PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> 25 pairs, where >> >> White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank >> Blue Orange Green Brown Gray > >>From what I've heard and read, where a 25 pair cable is concerned, it's > slate, not gray. Yes, and Ma Bell had optional colors with names like "rose". Regardless, what's the origin of the color scheme? In other words, what is the basis of the ordering? Resistor color code follows (pretty much) colors as they occur in a rainbow. Evidently, Ma Bell doesn't believe in rainbows. --Chuck From mattislind at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 14:45:18 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:45:18 +0200 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? Message-ID: An ex DEC engineer offloaded some stuff that he had found in his attic. https://i.imgur.com/413NSSL.jpg?1 It came together with a tektronix 1241 Logic Analyzer. Someone that can tell more about it? Then there were some DC100 tapes in a huge heap of TU58 diagnostic tapes for VAX-11/730 and VAX-11/750 that looked different. https://i.imgur.com/6n8yCxd.jpg?1 They were marked "BI-SYNC TRAINING TAPE" and "ASYNC TRAINING TAPE TAP-895-103-1.0 3.04" Anyone recognize what that could be? BTW. What are the status of various 11/730 and 11/750 diagnostics on TU58. Are those already dumped? It takes some time to work with TU58 so if someone already done all this I might skip dealing with them. I know of only one place that has TU58 dumps. http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html Anywhere else? /Mattis From healyzh at avanthar.com Thu Sep 19 14:49:58 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:49:58 -0700 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E47916D-C1E8-4BCD-B659-FF26C4003575@avanthar.com> > On Sep 19, 2019, at 12:45 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > An ex DEC engineer offloaded some stuff that he had found in his attic. > > https://i.imgur.com/413NSSL.jpg?1 > > It came together with a tektronix 1241 Logic Analyzer. > > Someone that can tell more about it? I don?t know anything, but I?m curious. :-) I?d recommend trying the Tek Museum, I think they?re actually now on the Tek Campus (unless I?m mistaken, Tek is down to the original site). https://vintagetek.org/ Zane From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 02:25:25 2019 From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (Dave Wade) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 08:25:25 +0100 Subject: analog computer - texas Message-ID: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> Seen on the vintage forums - I hope I am not spoiling some ones bid https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/43886 Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE From dkelvey at hotmail.com Thu Sep 19 08:40:41 2019 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:40:41 +0000 Subject: analog computer - texas In-Reply-To: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> References: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow Dwight ________________________________ From: cctech on behalf of Dave Wade via cctech Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:25 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' Subject: analog computer - texas Seen on the vintage forums - I hope I am not spoiling some ones bid https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/43886 Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Sep 19 16:06:34 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:06:34 -0400 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A11BC9B-79EE-455C-9112-FC864AC817DA@comcast.net> > On Sep 19, 2019, at 3:45 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > An ex DEC engineer offloaded some stuff that he had found in his attic. > ... > Then there were some DC100 tapes in a huge heap of TU58 diagnostic tapes > for VAX-11/730 and VAX-11/750 that looked different. > > https://i.imgur.com/6n8yCxd.jpg?1 > > They were marked "BI-SYNC TRAINING TAPE" and "ASYNC TRAINING TAPE > TAP-895-103-1.0 3.04" BI-SYNC is an odd spelling, but I would guess it means "BISYNC", the ancient communication protocol mostly used by IBM. With the hyphen it sounds like it's related to BI, but I suspect that's a red herring. paul From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Sep 19 16:37:18 2019 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:37:18 +0100 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: <3A11BC9B-79EE-455C-9112-FC864AC817DA@comcast.net> References: <3A11BC9B-79EE-455C-9112-FC864AC817DA@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 19/09/2019 22:06, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Sep 19, 2019, at 3:45 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: >> >> An ex DEC engineer offloaded some stuff that he had found in his attic. >> ... >> Then there were some DC100 tapes in a huge heap of TU58 diagnostic tapes >> for VAX-11/730 and VAX-11/750 that looked different. >> >> https://i.imgur.com/6n8yCxd.jpg?1 >> >> They were marked "BI-SYNC TRAINING TAPE" and "ASYNC TRAINING TAPE >> TAP-895-103-1.0 3.04" > BI-SYNC is an odd spelling, but I would guess it means "BISYNC", the ancient communication protocol mostly used by IBM. With the hyphen it sounds like it's related to BI, but I suspect that's a red herring. > > paul > It must be BISYNC - DEC had many bisync comms products over the years. VAXBI stuff on TU58 doesn't make very much sense to me ! Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio at acarlini.com From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Sep 19 17:18:13 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:18:13 -0700 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57710322-0f84-e96d-997e-df4965e19bfd@bitsavers.org> On 9/19/19 12:45 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > An ex DEC engineer offloaded some stuff that he had found in his attic. > > https://i.imgur.com/413NSSL.jpg?1 > > It came together with a tektronix 1241 Logic Analyzer. > > Someone that can tell more about it? > A Tek BI-Bus preprocessor for the 1241? > Then there were some DC100 tapes in a huge heap of TU58 diagnostic tapes > They were marked "BI-SYNC TRAINING TAPE" and "ASYNC TRAINING TAPE > TAP-895-103-1.0 3.04" > > > Anyone recognize what that could be? > Tek logic analyzers and protocol analyzers of the era used those tapes It may be sample data for those protocols From useddec at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 19:57:04 2019 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 19:57:04 -0500 Subject: KiCad pcb file In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <50750.83.128.128.49.1568746837.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> <10be9e6a-8df2-f675-7501-1f079fff205f@froghouse.org> Message-ID: I know someone out west who makes boards for DEC systems. If you want , I'll look for his contact info this weekend. Paul On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:09 PM systems_glitch via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > We have to clean it up but we've got the pattern for a quad height > prototype board. I can share the outline and edge connectors once it's 100% > verified. > > Thanks, > Jonathan > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:54 PM David Bridgham via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 9/17/19 15:00, Ed Groenenberg via cctalk wrote: > > > Hello. > > > > > > I'm looking for a PCB layout file / template of a 2 slot Unibus card, > > > which I want to use in KiCad. > > > > > > Can someone help me with this? > > > > > > Here's a KiCad template for a double-height QBUS card. I haven't > > verified it or cleaned it up but it ought to make a good starting point > > and deleting the QBUS bits will be easy. Eventually I'll need to do a > > quad-height Unibus card too. > > > > http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-template.tar.gz > > > > If you're building your own DEC boards, this is the best dimensional > > diagram I've come across; I pulled it out of a uVAX manual. The one bug > > I've found in it is the "1.00?.010" in the corner where the edge fingers > > start. I think it's supposed to be "0.100?.010" but I'd double-check > > that against other diagrams or measure a real board. > > > > http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-dimensions.pdf > > > > > > > From Kevin at RawFedDogs.net Thu Sep 19 20:37:29 2019 From: Kevin at RawFedDogs.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:37:29 -0500 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <9f75a62b-4f99-7c4d-66b9-a6800629a555@sydex.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> <9f75a62b-4f99-7c4d-66b9-a6800629a555@sydex.com> Message-ID: <20190920013729.GA20293@RawFedDogs.net> On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 11:23:38AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > What's in a name? Accuracy. > It looked gray to me. Me too. But enough videos that I watched featured individuals who felt compelled to emphasize that were telco cables are concerned, the colors are violet and slate, not purple and gray, that I'm willing to take their word for it. It kind of reminds me of when Dr. Pulaski met commander Data, and mispronounced his name as Dat-ah, instead of Day-tah. He told her how it was pronounced. She asked, "What's the difference?" He replied, "One is my name, the other is not." Where the 25 pair telco color code is concerned, violet and slate are in the color code, purple and gray are not. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. From marvin at west.net Thu Sep 19 20:49:37 2019 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 18:49:37 -0700 Subject: Early Univac Commercial Message-ID: I was watching an early airing of "What's My Line", and they aired a commercial by Remington Rand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DNG_bbHDE The commercial starts about 19:30 and shows the Univac being used in a weather prediction. Not much useful information, but the video is quite interesting to watch. Marvin From cclist at sydex.com Thu Sep 19 21:06:30 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 19:06:30 -0700 Subject: phone systems, old and less-old In-Reply-To: <20190920013729.GA20293@RawFedDogs.net> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <92ef30d3-3543-2844-3e5f-808eb3efebd7@sydex.com> <8d4f5576-e5df-ea60-dbb9-c2a38391624d@sydex.com> <20190919165604.GB27189@RawFedDogs.net> <9f75a62b-4f99-7c4d-66b9-a6800629a555@sydex.com> <20190920013729.GA20293@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: <4ebc3c2e-6e0d-f40f-eff0-18e493b9834d@sydex.com> On 9/19/19 6:37 PM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 11:23:38AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> What's in a name? > > Accuracy. > >> It looked gray to me. > > Me too. But enough videos that I watched featured individuals who felt > compelled to emphasize that were telco cables are concerned, the colors are > violet and slate, not purple and gray, that I'm willing to take their word > for it. The problem is that "what's the color slate look like?" Well, WikiP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_gray More than a bit of amiguity, so I'm going to go with "light slate gray": CMYK: (60, 43, 34, 4) or HTML #778899. WkiP also notes that there are many variations of Slate Gray in use; some are a bit more green or blue than others. But note that the color name is "Slate GRAY", so calling Ma Bell's color "gray" isn't an error. I'll bet peanuts to doughnuts that Ma Bell's official color isn't exactly any of the cited examples, either. Same for EIA 598A fiber colors. You call it "rose". I call it "pink". Now, that that's solved, we can move on to "what is the color indigo?" --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Thu Sep 19 21:09:49 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 19:09:49 -0700 Subject: Early Univac Commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are several Univac commercials in the archive.org video library. I like the one that talks about he Univac "memory tank", which, it really was. The curious thing was that Remington Rand ran commercials not only for UNIVAC computers, but also for shavers and typewriters. --Chuck From ethan at 757.org Thu Sep 19 21:27:23 2019 From: ethan at 757.org (Ethan O'Toole) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: A number of years ago I picked up a Lucent Merlin Legend system. It was around 1999, and Lucent wouldn't certify the system for "y2k" so this business switched over to a Nortel in a giant middle finger to lucent. The irony is the only thing that was "y2k incompatible" is you had to one time set the date on the 386 PC to 2000, otherwise it would roll back to 1970. Past that though -- it was good. The 386 PC ran a unix, and had a special interface card that presented 4 analog phone lines to the PBX. It had the full, awesome Audix (my favorite voice mail system) on it. The PBX came with an entire pickup truck bed of crap, for the price of $1200. IIRC I sold about half the phones and some line cards for $800, which made the system more affordable to me (and based on the price of the phones in those days, it made someone else's day too.) At the time I had 3 roomates, and it was very handy to be able to transfer calls around the house. In addition, there is an option to page all extensions. This was constantly used by roomates for tons of fun. And aggrivation. Some stories: We had music on hold setup, and there was a thrift store CD player in the coat closet that held all the hardware for this thing. The system had two carriers and about 6 boards. When people would call, if it was a telemarketer "track 2" was the crazy over the top rap hold music. That way when you transfer the call it sounds professional -- but not the hold music. I remember trying to go to bed, and the frigging roomates were paging my phone over and over. It was about 2AM. Given the house was a rental, the cabling to all the extensions and computers was run down the hallways -- no permanant modifications. I remember punting the phone down the hallway and slamming the door shut followed by tons of laughter. I eventually ended up with the better 486 computer that ran Audix. It came from an auction of a local ISP in Virginia Beach called Picus. I still have the hard drives and the ISA cards that interface to the PBX. One day I would like to try to convert all the voice prompts and build an asterisk setup that uses the same voice mail menu format and clean voice prompts (versus the lame ones asterisk has.) MAP 5P I think is the name of the 486 computer. My roomate always begged to upgrade to the line card that supported caller ID, but all the phone lines were in my name. I always fought it, because I knew he would never answer the phone. Sometimes in the middle of the night, I swear I would hear voices downstairs in the house. It seemed like the place was haunted or something. Finally I was in the right place at the right time.... the MLX-10D phones (so bad ass, look them up) had some kind of issue with the rubber components decaying in them. The phones had quick dial entries from the prior owner still stored in a lot of them. Well, in the middle of the night I guess the phones would "false trigger" and dial on speakerphone random people. So it was their voices in the middle of the night coming out of speakerphones. I also had the MLX-20L huge secretary phone with two sidecars. It was killer. The Merlin Legend was a pain in the ass to program. I think there was windows software that sort of helped. I never messed with a Magix. The MLX-10D + the Definity equivilent were my favorite phones. The rings, the look of the black set with the LCD, etc. I speculate they run on ISDN, but am not sure. The original Merlin was stylish, and I had one for a period but it was just too limited. Cool ring tone though. Where does one find a working 5ESS for home? -- : Ethan O'Toole From elson at pico-systems.com Thu Sep 19 21:52:11 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:52:11 -0500 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> On 09/19/2019 09:27 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: > > A number of years ago I picked up a Lucent Merlin Legend > system. It was around 1999, and Lucent wouldn't certify > the system for "y2k" so this business switched over to a > Nortel in a giant middle finger to lucent. > About 30 years ago, I had a KTU 1A2 phone system in my house. I was trying to add an intercom/paging system to it when I was able to buy an NEC Electra 8/16 phone system. I ran that for 25 years or so, and finally the thing just died. It did paging, intercom, and general PBX functionality for the two lines we had. I now have an Asterisk PBX system with 4 Snom 300 VOIP phones. It does way more than the NEC Electra, but it is more complicated to use. I STILL haven't gotten used to transferring a call to another extension or paging. But, it does offer distinctive ring, auto-answer with message recording, and taking FAXes. Jon From cclist at sydex.com Thu Sep 19 22:03:10 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:03:10 -0700 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> On 9/19/19 7:27 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: > > Where does one find a working 5ESS for home? How about a 5XB? :) From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Sep 19 22:05:46 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:05:46 -0700 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: On 9/19/19 7:27 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: > The 386 PC ran a unix Sys V 3.2 > It had the full, > awesome Audix Which always tells you "your call is being answered by otters" From tdk.knight at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 20:59:49 2019 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:59:49 -0500 Subject: analog computer - texas In-Reply-To: References: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> Message-ID: theres some nice pentx 6x7 and some lens's i see also rolleiflex for dirtcheap sadly looks like local pickup blah being in northern canada sucks sometimes On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 4:07 PM dwight via cctech wrote: > Wow > Dwight > > ________________________________ > From: cctech on behalf of Dave Wade via > cctech > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:25 AM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' > Subject: analog computer - texas > > Seen on the vintage forums - I hope I am not spoiling some ones bid > > > > https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/43886 > > > > Dave Wade > > G4UGM & EA7KAE > > > > From derschjo at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 00:51:51 2019 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:51:51 -0700 Subject: ISO: Keyboard for Intecolor 2400 terminal Message-ID: Picked up an Intecolor 2400 terminal awhile back; it's a nice VT100-compatible terminal with color enhancements. Unfortunately it's missing the detachable keyboard. Probably a longshot, but anyone have one of these lying around? Thanks, Josh From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 07:55:28 2019 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:55:28 -0400 Subject: KiCad pcb file In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <50750.83.128.128.49.1568746837.squirrel@www.groenenberg.net> <10be9e6a-8df2-f675-7501-1f079fff205f@froghouse.org> Message-ID: Paul, Sure! Always good to have more contacts in industry. Thanks, Jonathan On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:57 PM Paul Anderson via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I know someone out west who makes boards for DEC systems. If you want , > I'll look for his contact info this weekend. > > Paul > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:09 PM systems_glitch via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > We have to clean it up but we've got the pattern for a quad height > > prototype board. I can share the outline and edge connectors once it's > 100% > > verified. > > > > Thanks, > > Jonathan > > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:54 PM David Bridgham via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > On 9/17/19 15:00, Ed Groenenberg via cctalk wrote: > > > > Hello. > > > > > > > > I'm looking for a PCB layout file / template of a 2 slot Unibus card, > > > > which I want to use in KiCad. > > > > > > > > Can someone help me with this? > > > > > > > > > Here's a KiCad template for a double-height QBUS card. I haven't > > > verified it or cleaned it up but it ought to make a good starting point > > > and deleting the QBUS bits will be easy. Eventually I'll need to do a > > > quad-height Unibus card too. > > > > > > http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-template.tar.gz > > > > > > If you're building your own DEC boards, this is the best dimensional > > > diagram I've come across; I pulled it out of a uVAX manual. The one > bug > > > I've found in it is the "1.00?.010" in the corner where the edge > fingers > > > start. I think it's supposed to be "0.100?.010" but I'd double-check > > > that against other diagrams or measure a real board. > > > > > > http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-dimensions.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Sep 20 10:16:24 2019 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:16:24 -0400 Subject: Early Univac Commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00fd01d56fc6$5e0a2ab0$1a1e8010$@verizon.net> Isn't there also one that's a "help wanted" for programming positions? I seem to recall that they didn't say anything about professional training or experience, just things like "do you have a logical, ordered way of thinking?" Bill S. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 10:10 PM To: Marvin Johnston via cctalk Subject: Re: Early Univac Commercial There are several Univac commercials in the archive.org video library. I like the one that talks about he Univac "memory tank", which, it really was. The curious thing was that Remington Rand ran commercials not only for UNIVAC computers, but also for shavers and typewriters. --Chuck --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From linimon at lonesome.com Fri Sep 20 03:57:45 2019 From: linimon at lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:57:45 +0000 Subject: analog computer - texas In-Reply-To: References: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20190920085743.GA3380@lonesome.com> I'm local. OTOH I have $ problems right now so I can't promise to go over there, pick up stuff, and pack and ship it for free. I do have a bid in on the biological sample cases. (OK, it's a joke, but I do have one in on a rack) mcl From cclist at sydex.com Fri Sep 20 10:52:03 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:52:03 -0700 Subject: Early Univac Commercial In-Reply-To: <00fd01d56fc6$5e0a2ab0$1a1e8010$@verizon.net> References: <00fd01d56fc6$5e0a2ab0$1a1e8010$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <52ef138c-c416-5e2e-1222-f0abb0487a11@sydex.com> On 9/20/19 8:16 AM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Isn't there also one that's a "help wanted" for programming positions? > I seem to recall that they didn't say anything about professional training > or experience, just things like "do you have a logical, ordered way of > thinking?" I don't recall, but IBM had a "computer aptitude test" that it administered to just about anyone involved in sales or the technical end, regardless of education. I recall taking such a test, though I turned down IBM's job offer. --Chuck From elson at pico-systems.com Fri Sep 20 11:12:00 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:12:00 -0500 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> Message-ID: <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> > On 9/19/19 7:27 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >> Where does one find a working 5ESS for home? >> >> 5ESS? Hmmm, you must have a pretty BIG home, no? I've had a tour of a 5ESS and it was QUITE big, like 50K square feet at least, not counting the battery room and the cross connect frames, or the Solar turbine generator. Jon From pat at vax11.net Fri Sep 20 11:33:48 2019 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:33:48 -0400 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: Switches like that usually are pretty scalable. Purdue's SL-100 / DMS-100 that handled about 40,000 lines at its peak was similarly sized, and spread across 4 facilities on campus. However, for only a small number of lines, you could get away with maybe just a dozen cabinets worth of stuff. I guess that the fiber remote IPE cabinets would be good for hooking your neighbors up. :) Patrick Finnegan On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:12 Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > > > On 9/19/19 7:27 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: > >> Where does one find a working 5ESS for home? > >> > >> > 5ESS? Hmmm, you must have a pretty BIG home, no? > I've had a tour of a 5ESS and it was QUITE big, like 50K > square feet at least, not counting the battery room and the > cross connect frames, or the Solar turbine generator. > > Jon > > From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Sep 20 12:00:05 2019 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:00:05 -0700 Subject: Early Univac Commercial In-Reply-To: <52ef138c-c416-5e2e-1222-f0abb0487a11@sydex.com> References: <00fd01d56fc6$5e0a2ab0$1a1e8010$@verizon.net> <52ef138c-c416-5e2e-1222-f0abb0487a11@sydex.com> Message-ID: Yea, I recall having to take that test. I almost didn?t because my degree is EE but then they realized I was applying for SW positions. Go figure! ;-) Worked there for 17+ years. TTFN - Guy > On Sep 20, 2019, at 8:52 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > On 9/20/19 8:16 AM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: >> Isn't there also one that's a "help wanted" for programming positions? >> I seem to recall that they didn't say anything about professional training >> or experience, just things like "do you have a logical, ordered way of >> thinking?" > > I don't recall, but IBM had a "computer aptitude test" that it > administered to just about anyone involved in sales or the technical > end, regardless of education. I recall taking such a test, though I > turned down IBM's job offer. > > --Chuck > From michael.99.thompson at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 12:40:55 2019 From: michael.99.thompson at gmail.com (Michael Thompson) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:40:55 -0400 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:27:23 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ethan O'Toole > Subject: PBXes at home > > A number of years ago I picked up a Lucent Merlin Legend system. > > -- > : Ethan O'Toole > I have a little Merlin 410 PBX at home, with the Conference and Music on Hold plug-in modules. -- Michael Thompson From ethan at 757.org Fri Sep 20 13:19:00 2019 From: ethan at 757.org (Ethan O'Toole) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 14:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: > 5ESS? Hmmm, you must have a pretty BIG home, no? Not really, and most of the space is filled with arcade and pinball machines :-) But it is my understanding that a 5ESS could be widdled down to two racks. And it's not like I would keep it forever. Apparently the management platform that used to be a 3B2 runs on a Solaris machine in emulation now. So something like a Sun Netra T1 can take the place of the large computer. Only need enough line circuits to run say 32 or 64 analog loops and maybe some ISDN/T1? > I've had a tour of a 5ESS and it was QUITE big, like 50K square feet at > least, not counting the battery room and the cross connect frames, or the > Solar turbine generator. True, but don't need rows of racks of modules that drive the subscriber loops. > Jon > -- : Ethan O'Toole From barythrin at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 13:36:46 2019 From: barythrin at gmail.com (John Herron) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:36:46 -0500 Subject: analog computer - texas In-Reply-To: <20190920085743.GA3380@lonesome.com> References: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> <20190920085743.GA3380@lonesome.com> Message-ID: Not bad. Ended up going for $215. I couldn't tell condition from pics but hopefully someone enjoys and shows it off some time. On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:04 AM Mark Linimon via cctech wrote: > I'm local. OTOH I have $ problems right now so I can't promise > to go over there, pick up stuff, and pack and ship it for free. > > I do have a bid in on the biological sample cases. > > (OK, it's a joke, but I do have one in on a rack) > > mcl > From athornton at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 17:06:49 2019 From: athornton at gmail.com (Adam Thornton) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 15:06:49 -0700 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 ROMs Message-ID: My MicroVAX 3100 gets stuck in boot with the leftmost 4 LEDs on, which indicates it's executed some instructions from ROM. That in turn may indicate that the ROMs are corrupt. From http://gentiane.org/~miod/machineroom/machines/digital/vax/3100-30/bare_mobo.jpg it looks as if the ROMs are a pair of M27C1024s. Mouser doesn't have those, but they do carry AT27C1024 in two different speeds. Those look like they should work. It looks like my ROM burner will support that, with an additional, not horrifically expensive, adapter. The machine is probably a ka42b CPU (I can check when I get home). That in turn suggests that the file simh/VAX/ka42b.bin (which is 256K, which is nice, since that is two megabits) is probably the image I need. So my major remaining question is: how are those chips laid out? Since they're 16 bits wide, I assume that what I really have is a 64kword memory image...but is one the bottom 32kwords and one the top? Or is one the left 16 bits of 64kwords, and the other the right 16 bits? In short, how do I slice the image from simh to put it into the replacement ROMs? Adam From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Sep 20 17:42:07 2019 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 15:42:07 -0700 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> Message-ID: <05a66466-55a8-3d94-a88f-939fa2ac20a4@crash.com> On 09/19/2019 19:27, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: > > A number of years ago I picked up a Lucent Merlin Legend system. ... Around 2000 I picked up an expanded Nortel Compact ICS (CICS) with voice mail unit - might be the last thing I bought from a NetNews post. That was 8 analog CO lines and 24 extensions as received, with a tub of cables, phones, buttons, die-cut un-printed inserts, a few manuals, etc. Overkill for a four bedroom house with attached office, but it gave me all the features I wanted as a remote worker. I had the music on hold wired up, but stopped using it after one occasion where I put a staff meeting conference call on hold... When I finally acquired an ISDN line card years later I was very excited, but then I moved cross country before I put it into service. Maybe I should have tried to order ISDN at the new place but it was late 2005, and my DSL Internet service included an analog loop with free calling nationwide... Still using the CICS, having upgraded some handsets (M7310 -> T7316e) and the system software. --S. From phb.hfx at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 18:01:23 2019 From: phb.hfx at gmail.com (Paul Berger) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 20:01:23 -0300 Subject: Early Univac Commercial In-Reply-To: <52ef138c-c416-5e2e-1222-f0abb0487a11@sydex.com> References: <00fd01d56fc6$5e0a2ab0$1a1e8010$@verizon.net> <52ef138c-c416-5e2e-1222-f0abb0487a11@sydex.com> Message-ID: <86f3022f-d0d5-27bf-038f-28864ab333fd@gmail.com> On 2019-09-20 12:52 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 9/20/19 8:16 AM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: >> Isn't there also one that's a "help wanted" for programming positions? >> I seem to recall that they didn't say anything about professional training >> or experience, just things like "do you have a logical, ordered way of >> thinking?" > I don't recall, but IBM had a "computer aptitude test" that it > administered to just about anyone involved in sales or the technical > end, regardless of education. I recall taking such a test, though I > turned down IBM's job offer. > > --Chuck > Before I was hired as a CE I took a few test for understanding of digital logic as also mechanics as there was still lots of electro-mechanical equipment around 40 years ago.? Later when I transferred to a job in a development lab I took a test called the DPAT which was all aimed at testing logical thinking skills.? I was never told how I scored on any of these tests, but I was hired and I did get accepted for the training program that lead up to a job in the development lab. Paul. From toby at telegraphics.com.au Fri Sep 20 16:52:40 2019 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 17:52:40 -0400 Subject: analog computer - texas In-Reply-To: References: <3c9e01d56ebb$682f55d0$388e0170$@gmail.com> <20190920085743.GA3380@lonesome.com> Message-ID: <82d7d50d-be5e-1854-c351-a4de9028854c@telegraphics.com.au> On 2019-09-20 2:36 p.m., John Herron via cctech wrote: > Not bad. Ended up going for $215. I couldn't tell condition from pics but > hopefully someone enjoys and shows it off some time. > In the unlikely event the winner was anyone on this list, note that I bought the manual for the TR-20 on ebay recently and after it gets scanned, I could send it on for shipping so that it stays with the machine. --Toby > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:04 AM Mark Linimon via cctech > wrote: > >> I'm local. OTOH I have $ problems right now so I can't promise >> to go over there, pick up stuff, and pack and ship it for free. >> >> I do have a bid in on the biological sample cases. >> >> (OK, it's a joke, but I do have one in on a rack) >> >> mcl >> > From cctalk at snarc.net Fri Sep 20 19:23:31 2019 From: cctalk at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 20:23:31 -0400 Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <356a4fa5-2262-c462-3da5-f4cb5992c6b2@snarc.net> I know of two RP04 drives in the wild. One belongs to a private collector. VCF has the other. From useddec at gmail.com Sat Sep 21 03:36:09 2019 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 03:36:09 -0500 Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: <356a4fa5-2262-c462-3da5-f4cb5992c6b2@snarc.net> References: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <356a4fa5-2262-c462-3da5-f4cb5992c6b2@snarc.net> Message-ID: I think I have a DDU, AKA off line tester. On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 2:40 AM Evan Koblentz via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I know of two RP04 drives in the wild. One belongs to a private > collector. VCF has the other. > > From useddec at gmail.com Sat Sep 21 03:37:34 2019 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 03:37:34 -0500 Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: <356a4fa5-2262-c462-3da5-f4cb5992c6b2@snarc.net> References: <20190918183335.A117418C0D0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <356a4fa5-2262-c462-3da5-f4cb5992c6b2@snarc.net> Message-ID: I think I have a DDU, AKA off line tester. On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 2:40 AM Evan Koblentz via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I know of two RP04 drives in the wild. One belongs to a private > collector. VCF has the other. > > From nf6x at nf6x.net Sat Sep 21 12:57:17 2019 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 10:57:17 -0700 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Sep 19, 2019, at 12:45 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > Then there were some DC100 tapes in a huge heap of TU58 diagnostic tapes > for VAX-11/730 and VAX-11/750 that looked different. [...] > BTW. What are the status of various 11/730 and 11/750 diagnostics on TU58. > Are those already dumped? It takes some time to work with TU58 so if > someone already done all this I might skip dealing with them. > > I know of only one place that has TU58 dumps. > http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html That's the only site that I know of, too. Please see to it that those tapes get archived! Especially the 730 ones, for my own selfish interests as a 730 owner. :) -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From cclist at sydex.com Sat Sep 21 12:58:25 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 10:58:25 -0700 Subject: flux to imd In-Reply-To: <6becec00-9315-0dc9-1744-991336b8defe@bitsavers.org> References: <3061ae6a-9ff7-ee6b-4d23-be76ffa5662d@bitsavers.org> <910619D7-AEA6-438D-B622-3842C1CAEC32@nf6x.net> <3428c08f-54aa-2db1-e028-0ee868b04482@bitsavers.org> <02CB56BD-C276-414C-B855-7CA1B9BCA75F@nf6x.net> <6becec00-9315-0dc9-1744-991336b8defe@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On 9/21/19 10:26 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > On 9/21/19 10:12 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > >> Is it effective to bake cookies in their jackets? > I don't know, since i've never baked floppies. Chuck would know. Yes, I do. Usual 58C temps that I use for tapes. Doesn't seem to affect the jacket. --Chuck From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Sep 21 13:19:23 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 11:19:23 -0700 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <320bbf4a-46d7-a7d6-5333-c2050021e474@bitsavers.org> On 9/21/19 10:57 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote: >> I know of only one place that has TU58 dumps. >> http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html I should mirror those. I've got over a hundred TU58s I need to look at some day as well. Fixed the pinch rollers on some TU58s a year or two ago, just too many other things to do. From nf6x at nf6x.net Sat Sep 21 13:29:37 2019 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 11:29:37 -0700 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: <320bbf4a-46d7-a7d6-5333-c2050021e474@bitsavers.org> References: <320bbf4a-46d7-a7d6-5333-c2050021e474@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: > On Sep 21, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I've got over a hundred TU58s I need to look at some day as well. > Fixed the pinch rollers on some TU58s a year or two ago, just too many other things to do. I have about a dozen TU58 cartridges which came with my VAX-11/730. I'd like to archive them (or even read them, for that matter), but so far I have had not had any success with repairing cartridge drive belts. I just hate those things. I have a feeling that I might have better results by building an open reel imaging drive where I transfer the tape media out of the original cartridge, abandoning the &$@#! drive belt concept. But that's going to be a fairly big project, so I haven't made progress on it beyond brainstorming so far. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From mattislind at gmail.com Sat Sep 21 14:17:25 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:17:25 +0200 Subject: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes? In-Reply-To: References: <320bbf4a-46d7-a7d6-5333-c2050021e474@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: l?rdag 21 september 2019 skrev Mark J. Blair via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > > > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I've got over a hundred TU58s I need to look at some day as well. > > Fixed the pinch rollers on some TU58s a year or two ago, just too many > other things to do. > > I have about a dozen TU58 cartridges which came with my VAX-11/730. I'd > like to archive them (or even read them, for that matter), but so far I > have had not had any success with repairing cartridge drive belts. I just > hate those things. I have a feeling that I might have better results by > building an open reel imaging drive where I transfer the tape media out of > the original cartridge, abandoning the &$@#! drive belt concept. But that's > going to be a fairly big project, so I haven't made progress on it beyond > brainstorming so far. I dumped some 40 TU58 tapes a year ago. I replaced the band directly with 90 mm plastibands without even trying to run the tape. This was my procedure: Open up the tape cartridge. Then the old band was removed carefully by heating it slightly with a heat gun (low temperature). Then I managed to remove it without destroying the tape itself. One can see the tape changes appearance on the surface, then it can be removed. (Thanks to Rik Bos for the advice about heating) There are usually some residue from the band left on the tape. I used isopropanol to remove this by gently rubbing the surface. Sometimes some kind of salty residue has deposited on the back of the tape. Usually at the posts. This was also cleaned gently using isopropanol. Failure to do the last step usually caused the tape to stick during tape winding. Then cleaning the backside helped out. Now the plastiband was installed and the cover put back. I managed to fully recover all but one tape that had one bad block. The bands I used was the 90 mm baumgarten plastibands. The interesting thing is that they are actually japanese made by Nisshinbo and are called mobilon bands. It should be possible to buy from Misumi. https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/223000860382/?KWSearch=Mobilon&searchFlow=results2products&curSearch=%7b%22field%22%3a%22%40search%22%2c%22seriesCode%22%3a%22223000860382%22%2c%22innerCode%22%3a%22%22%2c%22sort%22%3a1%2c%22specSortFlag%22%3a0%2c%22allSpecFlag%22%3a0%2c%22page%22%3a1%2c%22pageSize%22%3a%2260%22%2c%2200000161458%22%3a%22mig00000001661601%22%2c%22fixedInfo%22%3a%22MDM0001617623122300086038211%7c12%22%7d&Tab=codeList 460 bands for 18 dollars is far better than buying those assorted packs from Baumgarten. Haven?t ordered myself since they want that you have a company to order. Need to ask a friend to help out. /Mattis > > -- > Mark J. Blair, NF6X > http://www.nf6x.net/ > > From nf6x at nf6x.net Sat Sep 21 15:03:22 2019 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:03:22 -0700 Subject: TU58 Archival (Was: Re: Tektrionix VAXBI board and DC100 training tapes?) In-Reply-To: References: <320bbf4a-46d7-a7d6-5333-c2050021e474@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: > On Sep 21, 2019, at 12:17 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: > > I dumped some 40 TU58 tapes a year ago. I replaced the band directly with 90 mm plastibands without even trying to run the tape. This was my procedure: Open up the tape cartridge. Then the old band was removed carefully by heating it slightly with a heat gun (low temperature). Then I managed to remove it without destroying the tape itself. One can see the tape changes appearance on the surface, then it can be removed. (Thanks to Rik Bos for the advice about heating) Thank you very much for your detailed instructions! I've tried using plastibands from a Baumgarten assortment once but it didn't work for me. I think the ones I used were the wrong size. They were very narrow once stretched into place, and they wouldn't stay on the tape reels without slipping off and terribly tangling everything up. Coincidentally, I just got a food dehydrator for baking magnetic media before archiving, to prevent oxide shedding. I'll be using it for 8" floppy diskettes first. Does it matter whether baking is done before or after unsticking the old band from the tape? > There are usually some residue from the band left on the tape. I used isopropanol to remove this by gently rubbing the surface. Sometimes some kind of salty residue has deposited on the back of the tape. Usually at the posts. This was also cleaned gently using isopropanol. Failure to do the last step usually caused the tape to stick during tape winding. Then cleaning the backside helped out. Is cyclomethicone lubricant helpful for imaging old edge-driven cartridges like TU58, QIC, etc., or does it interfere with the belt drive? > The bands I used was the 90 mm baumgarten plastibands. The interesting thing is that they are actually japanese made by Nisshinbo and are called mobilon bands. > > It should be possible to buy from Misumi. > > https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/223000860382/?KWSearch=Mobilon&searchFlow=results2products&curSearch=%7b%22field%22%3a%22%40search%22%2c%22seriesCode%22%3a%22223000860382%22%2c%22innerCode%22%3a%22%22%2c%22sort%22%3a1%2c%22specSortFlag%22%3a0%2c%22allSpecFlag%22%3a0%2c%22page%22%3a1%2c%22pageSize%22%3a%2260%22%2c%2200000161458%22%3a%22mig00000001661601%22%2c%22fixedInfo%22%3a%22MDM0001617623122300086038211%7c12%22%7d&Tab=codeList > > > 460 bands for 18 dollars is far better than buying those assorted packs from Baumgarten. > > Haven?t ordered myself since they want that you have a company to order. Need to ask a friend to help out. I've ordered a bag of those Mobilon bands. I just typed in my name for the company name when I registered, and their site seemed happy with that. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From cmhanson at eschatologist.net Sat Sep 21 16:52:01 2019 From: cmhanson at eschatologist.net (Chris Hanson) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 14:52:01 -0700 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? Message-ID: Does anyone have AViiON AV300D or related docs? I got a pair that have bum power supplies and I?m hoping to find something that will makes servicing them easier. After I get them running, I?ll obviously be looking for software. And a pinout for their unique SCSI port, though I hear they can netboot; any details about that would be useful too. ? Chris Sent from my iPhone From alan at alanlee.org Sat Sep 21 19:58:45 2019 From: alan at alanlee.org (alan at alanlee.org) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 20:58:45 -0400 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm in the same boat. I have a PSU I'm trying to resurrect. And have also discovered the SCSI pinout is not the same as the Sun 50-pin of the same (normal) density. I had started to layout a replacement PSU board with modern Meanwell modules to provide the +5V and +12V bulk rails and then source some inverting modules to provide the negatives. However it has slipped pretty far down my priority list. I did take accurate measurements of the PSU board for connector placement, edge dimensions, mounting locations and sizes, etc. I also traced out the connector pins to each rail and control signals (though haven't documented the signal meanings yet). I can share the Eagle project if you are still interested or just want to cross check your own work. I had also planned on pinning out the SCSI cable. But that fell down the priority list too. -Alan On 2019-09-21 17:52, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have AViiON AV300D or related docs? I got a pair that have > bum power supplies and I?m hoping to find something that will makes > servicing them easier. > > After I get them running, I?ll obviously be looking for software. And > a pinout for their unique SCSI port, though I hear they can netboot; > any details about that would be useful too. > > ? Chris > > Sent from my iPhone From shadoooo at gmail.com Sun Sep 22 01:13:54 2019 From: shadoooo at gmail.com (shadoooo) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 08:13:54 +0200 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 ROMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, first of all, I would advice to READ the original eproms and compare with known good. This will possibly spare a lot of efforts... Andrea From emu at e-bbes.com Sun Sep 22 07:29:21 2019 From: emu at e-bbes.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 08:29:21 -0400 Subject: simh, professional 350, 380 Message-ID: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> Hi all, I saw an old version from 2006 as "xhomer" which emulates the professional 350. Was there anywhere a version, which emulates the 380? Cheers From tsraguso at gmail.com Sun Sep 22 14:40:48 2019 From: tsraguso at gmail.com (Thomas Raguso) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:40:48 -0500 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation Message-ID: This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. So far, I have found: Apple Lisa 2 Tandy 6000 HD IBM 5251 Keyboard MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible) MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible) Cromemco System One Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p Lots of Apple II series IBM 5110 Piles of VT100s Even more VT220, VT320 Northstar Advantage Osborne 1 Various Kaypros PC clones Commodore B-Series Just about every kind of TRS-80 IBM XT with monitor in box NeXT cube Almost every type of Macintosh Amigas IBM PS/2 P70 HP 3000 (inaccessible) 1970s HP computers Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible) Heaps of CRT monitors Mechanical Keyboards At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems. The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the keyboards. I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time. Please feel free to text me with questions Thomas Raguso (832) 374-2803 From turing at shaw.ca Sun Sep 22 14:45:10 2019 From: turing at shaw.ca (Norman Jaffe) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <236518691.359096635.1569181510009.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> Hi: Is the IBM 5110 Basic, Basic/APL or APL? From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 12:40:48 PM Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. So far, I have found: Apple Lisa 2 Tandy 6000 HD IBM 5251 Keyboard MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible) MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible) Cromemco System One Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p Lots of Apple II series IBM 5110 Piles of VT100s Even more VT220, VT320 Northstar Advantage Osborne 1 Various Kaypros PC clones Commodore B-Series Just about every kind of TRS-80 IBM XT with monitor in box NeXT cube Almost every type of Macintosh Amigas IBM PS/2 P70 HP 3000 (inaccessible) 1970s HP computers Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible) Heaps of CRT monitors Mechanical Keyboards At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems. The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the keyboards. I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time. Please feel free to text me with questions Thomas Raguso (832) 374-2803 From pat at vax11.net Sun Sep 22 14:49:56 2019 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 15:49:56 -0400 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where is this all located? Patrick Finnegan On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 15:41 Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. > > I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including > Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are > currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. > > So far, I have found: > > Apple Lisa 2 > Tandy 6000 HD > IBM 5251 Keyboard > MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible) > MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible) > Cromemco System One > Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p > Lots of Apple II series > IBM 5110 > Piles of VT100s > Even more VT220, VT320 > Northstar Advantage > Osborne 1 > Various Kaypros > PC clones > Commodore B-Series > Just about every kind of TRS-80 > IBM XT with monitor in box > NeXT cube > Almost every type of Macintosh > Amigas > IBM PS/2 P70 > HP 3000 (inaccessible) > 1970s HP computers > Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals > A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible) > > Heaps of CRT monitors > > Mechanical Keyboards > At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's > > I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you > updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems. > > The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the > keyboards. > > I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time. > > Please feel free to text me with questions > > > Thomas Raguso > > (832) 374-2803 > > From healyzh at avanthar.com Sun Sep 22 14:59:18 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 12:59:18 -0700 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <373F95C0-E391-4AC9-A333-77490F264A06@avanthar.com> > On Sep 22, 2019, at 12:40 PM, Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > > Piles of VT100s > Even more VT220, VT320 > The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the > keyboards. Is it just VT100/220/320, or are there other models? Any DEC WPS keyboards (especially for a VT420)? Also, are there by any chance any Honeywell terminals? > Please feel free to text me with questions Keep in mind, this is a Classic Computing list, not all of us have a way to send Texts. :-) Hopefully you?re monitoring email for replies. Zane From wdonzelli at gmail.com Sun Sep 22 15:20:44 2019 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 16:20:44 -0400 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: <373F95C0-E391-4AC9-A333-77490F264A06@avanthar.com> References: <373F95C0-E391-4AC9-A333-77490F264A06@avanthar.com> Message-ID: > Keep in mind, this is a Classic Computing list, not all of us have a way to send Texts. :-) Hopefully you?re monitoring email for replies. There are,of course, no email to text methods out there. None. Zip. -- Will From pat at vax11.net Sun Sep 22 15:25:28 2019 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 16:25:28 -0400 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: <373F95C0-E391-4AC9-A333-77490F264A06@avanthar.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 16:21 William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Keep in mind, this is a Classic Computing list, not all of us have a way > to send Texts. :-) Hopefully you?re monitoring email for replies. > > There are,of course, no email to text methods out there. None. Zip. > Also, I'm guessing that if Tony Duell can figure out how to post photos on Flickr, the rest of us have a chance at figuring out how to send text messages. :-) Pat > From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Sep 22 15:55:59 2019 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Tapley, Mark) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 20:55:59 +0000 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35149A90-60A0-4FA6-9EE3-7AB9A58DC18F@swri.edu> > On Sep 22, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. > > I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including > Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are > currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. > > So far, I have found: > > ... > > Thomas Raguso > > (832) 374-2803 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_713,_281,_346,_and_832 indicates the phone number is part of the Houston, Texas area code overlay structure. A reasonable question might be whether any of the systems have suffered water damage. Understood area codes and geographical locations don?t always correlate in any meaningful way, but I thought I?d pass that on just in case. From tsraguso at gmail.com Sun Sep 22 16:59:56 2019 From: tsraguso at gmail.com (Thomas Raguso) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 16:59:56 -0500 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Update: I have also found IBM 500-series punch card equipment. On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 2:40 PM Thomas Raguso wrote: > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. > > I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including > Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are > currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. > > So far, I have found: > > Apple Lisa 2 > Tandy 6000 HD > IBM 5251 Keyboard > MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible) > MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible) > Cromemco System One > Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p > Lots of Apple II series > IBM 5110 > Piles of VT100s > Even more VT220, VT320 > Northstar Advantage > Osborne 1 > Various Kaypros > PC clones > Commodore B-Series > Just about every kind of TRS-80 > IBM XT with monitor in box > NeXT cube > Almost every type of Macintosh > Amigas > IBM PS/2 P70 > HP 3000 (inaccessible) > 1970s HP computers > Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals > A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible) > > Heaps of CRT monitors > > Mechanical Keyboards > At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's > > I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you > updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems. > > The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the > keyboards. > > I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time. > > Please feel free to text me with questions > > > Thomas Raguso > > (832) 374-2803 > > > > From paulkoning at comcast.net Sun Sep 22 20:02:45 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:02:45 -0400 Subject: simh, professional 350, 380 In-Reply-To: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> References: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <473F9024-139C-4658-A78B-1BEADC61C0C7@comcast.net> I haven't seen one. And unfortunately xhomer isn't maintained, and its license is incompatible with the current SIMH so it can't be merged. The author has said he'd consider changing that but I haven't heard back about that (it's been a long time). At this point it may be the best answer is to implement a new emulation in the current SIMH, without reference to xhomer code. There aren't all that many devices and they aren't all that complicated; the hardest is probably the graphics. paul > On Sep 22, 2019, at 8:29 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > > Hi all, > I saw an old version from 2006 as "xhomer" which emulates the > professional 350. Was there anywhere a version, which emulates the 380? > > Cheers From guykd at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 22 20:11:34 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:11:34 +1000 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190923111134.0128e7f8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 04:59 PM 22/09/2019 -0500, Thomas Raguso wrote: >Update: I have also found IBM 500-series punch card equipment. If you find any full boxes of blank IBM punch cards, please mention. I might be able to afford postage on a few. > 1970s HP computers I'm probably going to cry when I see photos. (Because I'm in Australia.) Guy From cym224 at gmail.com Sun Sep 22 20:18:26 2019 From: cym224 at gmail.com (Nemo) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:18:26 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> <81FF4753-AB8D-428E-9CC4-42E1CBC56387@shiresoft.com> <20190918165934.GA15746@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: On 18/09/2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > [...] > Yea, I had to make a trip to a ?secure facility? once and there were entire > ?tempest? rooms with conditioned power and no external communications > equipment. We had a secure (but not tempest) room built for us by an authorised contractor and they forgot to install A/C. It was unusable until a portable A/C was placed in it with complicated baffles letting the hot air out. N. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 22 20:24:17 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 18:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre In-Reply-To: References: <20190917093242.GA3418@SDF.ORG> <21F0E611-E49F-422A-9D66-EDBA660AD106@comcast.net> <561FDFA9-7396-41AC-963F-5C0DDE36BE3C@comcast.net> <0D4E99F0-CE92-4A96-815A-32EE364D97C8@comcast.net> <81FF4753-AB8D-428E-9CC4-42E1CBC56387@shiresoft.com> <20190918165934.GA15746@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2019, Nemo via cctalk wrote: > We had a secure (but not tempest) room built for us by an authorised > contractor and they forgot to install A/C. It was unusable until a > portable A/C was placed in it with complicated baffles letting the hot > air out. Nobody except a college administrator would build a computer room with no temperture control. Even at McMurdo, they had to have windows that opened. From jwsmail at jwsss.com Sun Sep 22 23:02:06 2019 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:02:06 -0700 Subject: Manx entry update Message-ID: <17550cad-e8cd-8e47-df50-a05e3520421e@jwsss.com> I looked for an image or record of the PDP8/L reference card, and one of the entries which showed up was for manx. I don't know how to contact the maintainer for manx but figure if someone can comment here it would be better than me ratholing and still not figuring it out. Anyway I found that the entry for one of the entries is stale but the internet archive had captured the tar file with the information. PDP-8 Pocket Reference Card http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,5468 https://web.archive.org/web/20151121165042/http://www.vaxarchive.org/pdp11/megan/pdp8rc.tar I did find this, and will try. Is something not working? Is a URL out of date or offline? Feel free to create a bug report on our CodePlex project http://manx.codeplex.com/WorkItem/Create One of the questions is whether archive.org entries are desirable or acceptible by the rules, and 2, whether the internet archive will be okay with that.? I see frequently that Wikipedia entries retrieve and publish those links. Thanks. Jim From edcross at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 01:07:30 2019 From: edcross at gmail.com (Eduardo Cruz) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 08:07:30 +0200 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In for a vt100 whenever for sale. Sent from my iPhone > On 22 Sep 2019, at 21:40, Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. > > I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including > Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are > currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. > > So far, I have found: > > Apple Lisa 2 > Tandy 6000 HD > IBM 5251 Keyboard > MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible) > MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible) > Cromemco System One > Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p > Lots of Apple II series > IBM 5110 > Piles of VT100s > Even more VT220, VT320 > Northstar Advantage > Osborne 1 > Various Kaypros > PC clones > Commodore B-Series > Just about every kind of TRS-80 > IBM XT with monitor in box > NeXT cube > Almost every type of Macintosh > Amigas > IBM PS/2 P70 > HP 3000 (inaccessible) > 1970s HP computers > Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals > A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible) > > Heaps of CRT monitors > > Mechanical Keyboards > At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's > > I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you > updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems. > > The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the > keyboards. > > I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time. > > Please feel free to text me with questions > > > Thomas Raguso > > (832) 374-2803 From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 06:29:32 2019 From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (Dave Wade) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 12:29:32 +0100 Subject: Dot Matrix Printers - UK - Free to good (or even bad) home Message-ID: <0bec01d57202$2be0c6f0$83a254d0$@gmail.com> Folks, I have a couple of spare printers 1. Panasonic KX-P3626 wide carriage 24-pin dot matrix printer with sheet and tractor feed. Free to anyone who wants it. If needed I can throw in a box of music ruled fanfold paper. Comes with some spare ribbons. 2. Amstrad DPM2000 narrow carriage 9 pin printer. Sheet and tractor feed, but I can't spare a box of narrow paper. Located in south Manchester, North West England. I haven't tested but will do if there is any interest. Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Mon Sep 23 08:06:56 2019 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:06:56 +0200 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: <373F95C0-E391-4AC9-A333-77490F264A06@avanthar.com> Message-ID: <297ab16d834368276d589b7690c0303e89ed7fa9.camel@agj.net> s?n 2019-09-22 klockan 16:25 -0400 skrev Patrick Finnegan via cctalk: > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 16:21 William Donzelli via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Keep in mind, this is a Classic Computing list, not all of us > > > have a way > > to send Texts. :-) Hopefully you?re monitoring email for replies. > > > > There are,of course, no email to text methods out there. None. Zip. > > > > Also, I'm guessing that if Tony Duell can figure out how to post > photos on > Flickr, the rest of us have a chance at figuring out how to send text > messages. :-) > > Pat > In the case of Tony D, does it works sending SMS messages from US to a UK/Europe mobile phone and vv ?? It works between GSM/4G phones in Europe but to a US number ? From pat at vax11.net Mon Sep 23 08:15:28 2019 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 09:15:28 -0400 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: <297ab16d834368276d589b7690c0303e89ed7fa9.camel@agj.net> References: <373F95C0-E391-4AC9-A333-77490F264A06@avanthar.com> <297ab16d834368276d589b7690c0303e89ed7fa9.camel@agj.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 09:07 Stefan Skoglund wrote: > s?n 2019-09-22 klockan 16:25 -0400 skrev Patrick Finnegan via cctalk: > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 16:21 William Donzelli via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > Keep in mind, this is a Classic Computing list, not all of us > > > > have a way > > > to send Texts. :-) Hopefully you?re monitoring email for replies. > > > > > > There are,of course, no email to text methods out there. None. Zip. > > > > > > > Also, I'm guessing that if Tony Duell can figure out how to post > > photos on > > Flickr, the rest of us have a chance at figuring out how to send text > > messages. :-) > > > > Pat > > > > In the case of Tony D, does it works sending SMS messages from US to a > UK/Europe mobile phone and vv ?? > > It works between GSM/4G phones in Europe but to a US number ? > Yes I can send text messages internationally for free though my provider. If you can't, sign up for a voip provider that does it. I use Google Voice and VoIP.ms which can both do it over the internet. Pat From jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com Mon Sep 23 10:22:21 2019 From: jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 10:22:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Vintage computer store hints in Minneapolis? Message-ID: Morning all; I was up in Minneapolis over the weekend and will probably be back next weekend - I was wondering where the local geeks might go for some nifty goodness (for sale or just to gander at)? When I was up there I hit FreeGeek and picked up a SCSI SyQuest EZ135 external drive and a couple of carts. I also rolled through The Ax-Man... for 3 hours because I'd never even heard of the place before and was absolutely astonished at what I'd found. (If you've never been, you _must_ go) But I thought I'd poll and see what else might be found up there? I'm mostly a non-PC collector (Sun/SGI/Digital/+ random things) - but easily amused. Speaking of, there's a set of power supply modules for a PDP at The Ax-Man on University. There were several h744s and 745s and and an h754, although one of them someone has started to pry apart and the Molex (?) connector is broken from the PCB, although the pins were still attached to the board. They were asking $9.95 for each and I wasn't willing to buy and hope they worked. Cheers; - JP From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Mon Sep 23 10:29:28 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Manx entry update Message-ID: <20190923152928.49C5918C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Jim Stephens > I don't know how to contact the maintainer for manx There was discussion recently about that, and I did manage (with help from someone here who provided his email - thanks muchly!) to reach him. We were discussing how I could help update things, but a hurricane came by, and I dropped it; need to continue. > Anyway I found that the entry for one of the entries is stale but the > internet archive had captured the tar file with the information. > ... > One of the questions is whether archive.org entries are desirable or > acceptible by the rules, and 2, whether the internet archive will be > okay with that. I see frequently that Wikipedia entries retrieve and > publish those links. I can't see how either would be a problem (as you point out with Wikipedia). As long as the bits are there, and won't go away (which I assume is true of the IA) that should be OK. Noel From kylevowen at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 11:19:50 2019 From: kylevowen at gmail.com (Kyle Owen) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:19:50 -0500 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thomas, I'm interested in anything HP, SGI, early Sun, and pre-VAX DEC. Do you have any photos? What kind of condition is most of this stuff in? I've been thinking about visiting Computer Reset with a box truck this fall. Think I could stop by? Many thanks, Kyle On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 15:41 Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. > > I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including > Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are > currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games. > > So far, I have found: > > Apple Lisa 2 > Tandy 6000 HD > IBM 5251 Keyboard > MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible) > MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible) > Cromemco System One > Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p > Lots of Apple II series > IBM 5110 > Piles of VT100s > Even more VT220, VT320 > Northstar Advantage > Osborne 1 > Various Kaypros > PC clones > Commodore B-Series > Just about every kind of TRS-80 > IBM XT with monitor in box > NeXT cube > Almost every type of Macintosh > Amigas > IBM PS/2 P70 > HP 3000 (inaccessible) > 1970s HP computers > Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals > A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible) > > Heaps of CRT monitors > > Mechanical Keyboards > At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's > > I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you > updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems. > > The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the > keyboards. > > I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time. > > Please feel free to text me with questions > > > Thomas Raguso > > (832) 374-2803 > From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Mon Sep 23 11:42:11 2019 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 18:42:11 +0200 (CEST) Subject: flux to imd In-Reply-To: References: <3061ae6a-9ff7-ee6b-4d23-be76ffa5662d@bitsavers.org> <910619D7-AEA6-438D-B622-3842C1CAEC32@nf6x.net> <3428c08f-54aa-2db1-e028-0ee868b04482@bitsavers.org> <02CB56BD-C276-414C-B855-7CA1B9BCA75F@nf6x.net> <6becec00-9315-0dc9-1744-991336b8defe@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 9/21/19 10:26 AM, Al Kossow wrote: >> >> >> On 9/21/19 10:12 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote: >> >>> Is it effective to bake cookies in their jackets? >> I don't know, since i've never baked floppies. Chuck would know. > Yes, I do. Usual 58C temps that I use for tapes. Doesn't seem to > affect the jacket. Somehow I am missing the complete history of this thread "flux to imd". Is there a problem with the mailing list system? The history is also missing in the archives on the web site. Christian From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Sep 23 16:36:20 2019 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven stengel) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 21:36:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Found a Datapoint 2200 in Austria that I wanted - I asked seller Viktor to pack it well, by wrapping it several times in big-bubble bubbewrap, until it was just a giant cube of bubble wrap. See pics here: http://oldcomputers.net/box/ ? The cover was actually sent separately in another box so it didn't crushed by the 50 pound system. First, I have to rewire it from 220vac to 110vac. Second - what to do about that screen? From healyzh at avanthar.com Mon Sep 23 16:40:06 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:40:06 -0700 Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B7CB52A-A02A-4FFD-8766-076BB661372A@avanthar.com> Not only a happy shipping story, but one that involves international shipping?!?! Is that screen burn-in or something worse. I saw the photo?s before I read that line below, and my instant thought was Ew! Zane > On Sep 23, 2019, at 2:36 PM, steven stengel via cctalk wrote: > > Found a Datapoint 2200 in Austria that I wanted - I asked seller Viktor to pack it well, by wrapping it several times in big-bubble bubbewrap, until it was just a giant cube of bubble wrap. > > See pics here: > http://oldcomputers.net/box/ > > The cover was actually sent separately in another box so it didn't crushed by the 50 pound system. > > First, I have to rewire it from 220vac to 110vac. > Second - what to do about that screen? > > > From santo.nucifora at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 16:43:25 2019 From: santo.nucifora at gmail.com (Santo Nucifora) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:43:25 -0400 Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That is awesome. Looks great! Do a search on "crt cataract". There is likely a plastic cover on the CRT that is glued in place. This can be removed and cleaned. I have a Hazeltine 1500 terminal that the cataract was so bad, the plastic cover fell off. Good luck with the restoration! Santo On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 5:36 PM steven stengel via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Found a Datapoint 2200 in Austria that I wanted - I asked seller Viktor to > pack it well, by wrapping it several times in big-bubble bubbewrap, until > it was just a giant cube of bubble wrap. > > See pics here: > http://oldcomputers.net/box/ > > The cover was actually sent separately in another box so it didn't crushed > by the 50 pound system. > > First, I have to rewire it from 220vac to 110vac. > Second - what to do about that screen? > > > > From linimon at lonesome.com Mon Sep 23 16:45:44 2019 From: linimon at lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 21:45:44 +0000 Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20190923214543.GA2232@lonesome.com> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 09:36:20PM +0000, steven stengel via cctalk wrote: > First, I have to rewire it from 220vac to 110vac. I bought one of the 110-220 converters off ePay ("Superite"). It has performed well for me for several years. (IBM Power5s *really* want 220 if you have both power supplies installed. It only tells you that on page 2349134 of the manual.) mcl From trash80 at internode.on.net Mon Sep 23 18:24:34 2019 From: trash80 at internode.on.net (Kevin Parker) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:24:34 +1000 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard Message-ID: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> I resurrected an old keyboard and mouse I like. Not wishing to gross anyone out but it looks like over time there was a build-up of oil etc from my hands etc and over time being stored away its turned to a really almost hard paste like stuff on both the mouse and keyboard. I've tried number of agents to clean it off but limited success. Any tips please. Kevin Parker From healyzh at avanthar.com Mon Sep 23 18:43:48 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:43:48 -0700 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <891BA075-4BC3-4C58-9171-5BF475DD946F@avanthar.com> > On Sep 23, 2019, at 4:24 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: > > I resurrected an old keyboard and mouse I like. Not wishing to gross anyone > out but it looks like over time there was a build-up of oil etc from my > hands etc and over time being stored away its turned to a really almost hard > paste like stuff on both the mouse and keyboard. > > I've tried number of agents to clean it off but limited success. > > Any tips please. > > Kevin Parker Have you tried Isopropyl Alcohol? That?s what I?ve normally used. Zane From paulkoning at comcast.net Mon Sep 23 19:17:22 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 20:17:22 -0400 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: > On Sep 23, 2019, at 7:24 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: > > I resurrected an old keyboard and mouse I like. Not wishing to gross anyone > out but it looks like over time there was a build-up of oil etc from my > hands etc and over time being stored away its turned to a really almost hard > paste like stuff on both the mouse and keyboard. > > I've tried number of agents to clean it off but limited success. Are you talking about the key caps? Best bet might be to take them off. Usually they do come off. If so, you can test various solvents. Alcohol (ethanol or isopropanol) might work. Paint thinner, but test it first to make sure it doesn't dissolve the key cap. An adhesives specialist friend of ours has recommended WD-40 as a slow but safe solvent to take off many adhesives. You'd want to clean it off carefully afterwards since it leaves a messy residue when it dries (WD-40 is NOT a lubricant even though some cans of the stuff claim it is). Another option might be to put all the key caps in a mesh container and run them through the dishwasher. paul From bhilpert at shaw.ca Mon Sep 23 19:30:49 2019 From: bhilpert at shaw.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:30:49 -0700 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <9892CBB4-D0CE-40C1-92AF-2C6949ACC85E@shaw.ca> On 2019-Sep-23, at 4:24 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: > I resurrected an old keyboard and mouse I like. Not wishing to gross anyone > out but it looks like over time there was a build-up of oil etc from my > hands etc and over time being stored away its turned to a really almost hard > paste like stuff on both the mouse and keyboard. > > I've tried number of agents to clean it off but limited success. > > Any tips please. Isoprop as a preferable first resort, as others have suggested. If that doesn't do it, common TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate) is good at cleaning off grimy organics. However, best to be taking things apart so keycaps and housings (not the electronics or keyswitches) can be immersed in solution and then thoroughly rinsed. I wouldn't want to let TSP soak into parts from a wipe-down where it couldn't be well-cleaned-out. From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Mon Sep 23 21:24:23 2019 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 20:24:23 -0600 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <15124e4a-094c-c23b-62c3-297baf000b92@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 9/23/19 6:17 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > WD-40 is NOT a lubricant even though some cans of the stuff claim it is. Traditional WD-40, agreed. Unfortunately, WD-40 is now more of a brand than it is a product. They have other products that I think are much more of a lubricant than thee original WD-40 was. ;-) Their Lithium based lubricant comes to mind. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 22:48:46 2019 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 22:48:46 -0500 Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 4:36 PM steven stengel via cctalk wrote: > Found a Datapoint 2200 in Austria that I wanted - I asked seller Viktor to pack it well, by wrapping it several times in big-bubble bubbewrap, until it was just a giant cube of bubble wrap. Looks like it was worth it. > See pics here: > http://oldcomputers.net/box/ > Second - what to do about that screen? As someone pointed out, that looks like "CRT cataracts" - where the PVA layer between the face of the CRT and the implosion field breaks down. I've had to fix DEC terminals with this condition (and others here have had similar experiences on certain devices). There are ways to get the protective glass off the front. I used a wire to slice through the PVA. Others have reported using heat guns to soften the PVA. In the case of the VT220, I needed to put the glass back after cleaning both surfaces because just the CRT along wasn't thick enough to fit in the bezel with the original mounting technique. It did depend on the PVA layer. I found some 3M Silicone Tape (3M VHB Tape 4910?) that was clear and 1mm thick. I just put squares on the corners but it would likely work if you edged the entire area to keep dust out of the space between. I know DEC VT220s and VR201s are prone to this condition and I believe I've read about ADM 3A terminals with the same. Some terminals use bare CRTs (thicker face glass, or just manufactured to older standards?) -ethan From cmhanson at eschatologist.net Tue Sep 24 00:39:11 2019 From: cmhanson at eschatologist.net (Chris Hanson) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 22:39:11 -0700 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I?ve seen that datageneral.uk at least has a pinout for an Eclipse MV SCSI port, which hypothetically might match the AViiON DB-50 SCSI. In the absence of real docs though, who can say? Can you post the AViiON AV300D power supply pinout you?ve figured out? Maybe I can power on my system with a couple bench supplies or an ATX supply... ? Chris From holm at freibergnet.de Tue Sep 24 01:50:31 2019 From: holm at freibergnet.de (Holm Tiffe) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 08:50:31 +0200 Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20190924065030.GA14271@beast.freibergnet.de> Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 4:36 PM steven stengel via cctalk > wrote: > > Found a Datapoint 2200 in Austria that I wanted - I asked seller Viktor to pack it well, by wrapping it several times in big-bubble bubbewrap, until it was just a giant cube of bubble wrap. > > Looks like it was worth it. > > > See pics here: > > http://oldcomputers.net/box/ > > > Second - what to do about that screen? > > As someone pointed out, that looks like "CRT cataracts" - where the > PVA layer between the face of the CRT and the implosion field breaks > down. I've had to fix DEC terminals with this condition (and others > here have had similar experiences on certain devices). There are ways > to get the protective glass off the front. I used a wire to slice > through the PVA. Others have reported using heat guns to soften the > PVA. In the case of the VT220, I needed to put the glass back after > cleaning both surfaces because just the CRT along wasn't thick enough > to fit in the bezel with the original mounting technique. It did > depend on the PVA layer. I found some 3M Silicone Tape (3M VHB Tape > 4910?) that was clear and 1mm thick. I just put squares on the > corners but it would likely work if you edged the entire area to keep > dust out of the space between. > > I know DEC VT220s and VR201s are prone to this condition and I believe > I've read about ADM 3A terminals with the same. Some terminals use > bare CRTs (thicker face glass, or just manufactured to older > standards?) > > -ethan Just a comment.. such picture tubes with the PVA layer seem to be completely unusual in the former eastern block countires. They all used tubes with thick fron glass for implosion protection. Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 From derschjo at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 02:10:41 2019 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 00:10:41 -0700 Subject: Help identifying mystery Unibus board Message-ID: Hi all -- Found this in a stack of boards, and I don't know what it is, other than that it's Unibus -- there's a logo but no text identifying the board or the manufacturer. Anyone recognize the logo in this picture? http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board0.jpeg Here's the full board, for reference: http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board1.jpeg Thanks, Josh From mattislind at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 02:49:52 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:49:52 +0200 Subject: Help identifying mystery Unibus board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Den tis 24 sep. 2019 kl 09:11 skrev Josh Dersch via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > Hi all -- > > Found this in a stack of boards, and I don't know what it is, other than > that it's Unibus -- there's a logo but no text identifying the board or the > manufacturer. Anyone recognize the logo in this picture? > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board0.jpeg System Industries? > > > Here's the full board, for reference: > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board1.jpeg > > Thanks, > Josh > /Mattis From billdegnan at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 03:13:02 2019 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 04:13:02 -0400 Subject: Help identifying mystery Unibus board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > > > > Here's the full board, for reference: > > > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board1.jpeg > > > > Thanks, > > Josh > > > > /Mattis > You confirmed it is not Omnibus bd, like a drive bootstrap board? B > From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 03:15:38 2019 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:15:38 +0100 Subject: Help identifying mystery Unibus board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 9:13 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here's the full board, for reference: > > > > > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board1.jpeg > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Josh > > > > > > > /Mattis > > > > You confirmed it is not Omnibus bd, like a drive bootstrap board? I think with that many address switches, a 'vector' switch, the grant jumpers and the connector at that end it's Unibus. -tony From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 03:16:56 2019 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:16:56 +0100 Subject: Help identifying mystery Unibus board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 9:15 AM Tony Duell wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 9:13 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the full board, for reference: > > > > > > > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board1.jpeg > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Josh > > > > > > > > > > /Mattis > > > > > > > You confirmed it is not Omnibus bd, like a drive bootstrap board? > > I think with that many address switches, a 'vector' switch, the grant > jumpers and the connector at that end it's Unibus. > > -tony From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Tue Sep 24 03:34:31 2019 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:34:31 +0200 Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16d486a1-b664-edd3-c53c-db172869b07e@greenmail.ch> On 23.09.19 23:36, steven stengel via cctalk wrote: > First, I have to rewire it from 220vac to 110vac. Lucky you, I would have driven over if had known about it ! Only a one-day return trip for me.... Be carefully : some parts on the big cooling block are directly connected to mains. > Second - what to do about that screen? Repair / clean it of course. This is what I did to my DP1100 : Before : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Console/CPU_before.jpg During : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Console/Pull_off_remaining_goo.jpg Result? : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Console/CPU_after.jpg .. and the full machine, in its orginal Datapoint desk : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Datapoint_1100.jpg Jos From sales at elecplus.com Tue Sep 24 05:37:35 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 05:37:35 -0500 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <007c01d572c4$14c99790$3e5cc6b0$@com> You don't say what brand of keyboard and mouse you have. Some companies (Logitech is famous for this) used a type of plastic that turns gummy over the years. The solution for this is to use a thick paste of baking soda and water, and lots of elbow grease, to remove the gummy stuff. Afterwards, rinse well with water and dry thoroughly. Regular grime that has accumulated over the years can be removed with detergent and warm water. Don't exceed 120F on the water temp, as some thin ABS plastics will start to warp at higher temps. Melted rubber feet, adhesive from tapes and stickers, etc. can be safely removed with Spot Shot (available at most stores like WalMart in the carpet cleaning section). I DON'T recommend using the dishwasher. Caps can be removed and soaked in mild solution of hand dish soap and warm water for about 30 minutes. Rub them with a rough terry wash cloth, and rinse thoroughly. Lay them out face up on a towel and blot dry to prevent hard water spots. The case can be disassembled and cleaned by soaking in the same manner. Isopropyl will dissolve some plastics, as will acetone and MEK. If in doubt, use a cotton swab to dab a small amount of the underside of the case or cap, and wait a few seconds. If the plastic becomes gummy, do not use that chemical. Note that cases and keycaps are often made from different types of plastics. GooGone also removes adhesives safely from most plastics. Do NOT use GoofOff, as it will dissolve almost all types of plastic from which keyboards are made. If used carefully, a Magic Eraser and water can go a long ways towards cleaning scuff marks and other heavy residue. Do not use one dry; it must be damp. Hope this helps. Cindy -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Parker via cctalk Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 6:25 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard I resurrected an old keyboard and mouse I like. Not wishing to gross anyone out but it looks like over time there was a build-up of oil etc from my hands etc and over time being stored away its turned to a really almost hard paste like stuff on both the mouse and keyboard. I've tried number of agents to clean it off but limited success. Any tips please. Kevin Parker --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 06:33:30 2019 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 06:33:30 -0500 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aadf54e-7b1d-a717-3aa5-a5b049b5dc35@gmail.com> On 9/22/19 2:40 PM, Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. Is there any connection to Computer Reset in Dallas, or is this a completely different animal? From sales at elecplus.com Tue Sep 24 07:02:28 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:02:28 -0500 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: <7aadf54e-7b1d-a717-3aa5-a5b049b5dc35@gmail.com> References: <7aadf54e-7b1d-a717-3aa5-a5b049b5dc35@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00aa01d572cf$f324ce50$d96e6af0$@com> Computer Reset was in Dallas. This one is in Houston. Totally different animal. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:34 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation On 9/22/19 2:40 PM, Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote: > This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale. Is there any connection to Computer Reset in Dallas, or is this a completely different animal? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Tue Sep 24 09:07:48 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sales@elecplus.com Message-ID: <20190924140748.01C3118C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Re: Cleaning an old keyboard Hey, that spiel would be a good start to a great article on the CHWiki, 'Cleaning keyboards'! (Not sure if any of the other replies contained anything worth picking up.) Noel From sales at elecplus.com Tue Sep 24 09:19:41 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:19:41 -0500 Subject: sales@elecplus.com In-Reply-To: <20190924140748.01C3118C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190924140748.01C3118C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <018001d572e3$1c17eb90$5447c2b0$@com> There is an entire process I go through. Paintbrush and vacuum for removing loose debris. Various cleaners. Ultrasonic cleaner for the caps. It can take over an hour to really get one looking new again. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel Chiappa via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 9:08 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Subject: sales at elecplus.com Re: Cleaning an old keyboard Hey, that spiel would be a good start to a great article on the CHWiki, 'Cleaning keyboards'! (Not sure if any of the other replies contained anything worth picking up.) Noel --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From alan at alanlee.org Tue Sep 24 09:27:59 2019 From: alan at alanlee.org (alan at alanlee.org) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:27:59 -0400 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6e5309550ec273d09e4b46642fd105b0@alanlee.org> I stuck the files up here for the next few weeks as I don't have a project page for it yet: https://www.retrotronics.org/tmp/dgpsu Hope this helps. On 2019-09-24 01:39, Chris Hanson wrote: > I?ve seen that datageneral.uk at least has a pinout for an Eclipse MV > SCSI port, which hypothetically might match the AViiON DB-50 SCSI. > > In the absence of real docs though, who can say? > > Can you post the AViiON AV300D power supply pinout you?ve figured out? > Maybe I can power on my system with a couple bench supplies or an ATX > supply... > > ? Chris From alan at alanlee.org Tue Sep 24 09:32:28 2019 From: alan at alanlee.org (alan at alanlee.org) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:32:28 -0400 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? In-Reply-To: <6e5309550ec273d09e4b46642fd105b0@alanlee.org> References: <6e5309550ec273d09e4b46642fd105b0@alanlee.org> Message-ID: <4ec38bd310d52c3015b9e8ed15b6dc32@alanlee.org> I mean to add, that view is looking through the machine not the connector. So with the PSU oriented in it's natural position, that is the pinout of the solder pin tails coming up through the PSU PCB or the face of the connector on the main board. Also I never scoped the control pins to figure out their roles. The board and mounting hole dimensions are in the Eagle files. -Alan On 2019-09-24 10:27, alan--- via cctalk wrote: > I stuck the files up here for the next few weeks as I don't have a > project page for it yet: > > https://www.retrotronics.org/tmp/dgpsu > > Hope this helps. > > > On 2019-09-24 01:39, Chris Hanson wrote: >> I?ve seen that datageneral.uk at least has a pinout for an Eclipse MV >> SCSI port, which hypothetically might match the AViiON DB-50 SCSI. >> >> In the absence of real docs though, who can say? >> >> Can you post the AViiON AV300D power supply pinout you?ve figured out? >> Maybe I can power on my system with a couple bench supplies or an ATX >> supply... >> >> ? Chris From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Tue Sep 24 09:41:38 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: M7821 variants Message-ID: <20190924144138.C2B7F18C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> So I just discovered that there are three wildly different variants of the M7821 Interrupt Control card. More here, with images: http://gunkies.org/wiki/M782_Interrupt_Control I'll have to dredge around and see if I can find circuit diagrams for them all; they are wildly different, the -C has many fewer components than the -B and -D, and the latter has a couple of delay lines. Noel PS: Sorry about that dis-directed message to Cindy; not quite sure what I did wrong there. From nf6x at nf6x.net Tue Sep 24 10:19:26 2019 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 08:19:26 -0700 Subject: flux to imd In-Reply-To: References: <3061ae6a-9ff7-ee6b-4d23-be76ffa5662d@bitsavers.org> <910619D7-AEA6-438D-B622-3842C1CAEC32@nf6x.net> <3428c08f-54aa-2db1-e028-0ee868b04482@bitsavers.org> <02CB56BD-C276-414C-B855-7CA1B9BCA75F@nf6x.net> <6becec00-9315-0dc9-1744-991336b8defe@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: The list isn?t broken. This thread started off-list, and the Chuck CC?d the list late in the thread. -- Mark J. Blair http://www.nf6x.net From cube1 at charter.net Tue Sep 24 10:52:49 2019 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:52:49 -0500 Subject: Help identifying mystery Unibus board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <083bfed0-01f0-5df5-f7ca-44c76fa7a5f1@charter.net> On 9/24/2019 3:15 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 9:13 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: >> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's the full board, for reference: >>>> >>>> http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/random/board1.jpeg >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Josh >>>> >>> >>> /Mattis >>> >> >> You confirmed it is not Omnibus bd, like a drive bootstrap board? > > I think with that many address switches, a 'vector' switch, the grant > jumpers and the connector at that end it's Unibus. > > -tony > Assuming UNIBUS... Looking at the address switches, I see 11 selectable bits out of how many we don't know. If at one extreme, the bits start at bit 15 (MSB) [assuming bits 16 and 17 are also 1], then the address of the ports on the board would be 77744X - 77747X - that seems like a lot. (They might start at bit 17, but then the space used by the board gets absolutely crazy). If, on the other extreme, we suppose that the top 4 bits are 17 (along bit bits 17 and 16), then we get 777762 - 777763. That might actually be possible. One might continue the exercise one bit at a time between the two to see if the address lands anywhere "interesting". 777762 777744 777710 Not here (Conflict with CPU registers) 777620 Unlikely (memory management) 777440 A more sure way would be to find the address line to which the first address switch corresponds. JRJ From elson at pico-systems.com Tue Sep 24 11:03:42 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:03:42 -0500 Subject: Tek logic analyzer probes available Message-ID: <5D8A3E5E.3040801@pico-systems.com> I have 6 Tek logic analyzer probes available. I have one P6464 pattern generator probe with a message about some bad channels (could have been the cable or pat gen board, too). There are 3 X P6452 analysis probes, and 2 X P6451. Anybody need any of these? Thanks, Jon From pdb11 at phonecoop.coop Tue Sep 24 01:30:08 2019 From: pdb11 at phonecoop.coop (Philip Belben) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:30:08 +0100 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: > > On Sep 23, 2019, at 7:24 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: > > > > I resurrected an old keyboard and mouse I like. Not wishing to gross anyone > > out but it looks like over time there was a build-up of oil etc from my > > hands etc and over time being stored away its turned to a really almost hard > > paste like stuff on both the mouse and keyboard. > > > > I've tried number of agents to clean it off but limited success. > > Are you talking about the key caps? (de-lurking very briefly) The following works for me on my several IBM model M keyboards: Take off keycaps Tie them securely in a cotton carrier bag put them in thewashing machine with my clothes (not on a high temperature - 30 or 40 celcius is good) dry them Put them back on. I did this with two keyboards at once on one occasion, and I still haven't sorted out which keys belong to which. (Labels printed at slightly different locations on the key) Philip. > > An adhesives specialist friend of ours has recommended WD-40 as a slow but safe solvent to take off many adhesives.? You'd want to clean it off carefully afterwards since it leaves a messy residue when it dries (WD-40 is NOT a lubricant even though some cans of the stuff claim it is). PS I wish people wouldn't say WD40 is not a lubricant. It is. The problem is that it is quite a heavy grease - suitable for (say) door hinges - but when it comes out of the can it looks like a fine oil, because the solvent in which the grease is delivered is actually a penetrating oil. So people use it in applications that need a fine oil, and find that the heavy grease doesn't work. From elson at pico-systems.com Tue Sep 24 11:09:43 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:09:43 -0500 Subject: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D8A3FC7.1080503@pico-systems.com> On 09/20/2019 11:12 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > >> On 9/19/19 7:27 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >>> Where does one find a working 5ESS for home? >>> >>> > 5ESS? Hmmm, you must have a pretty BIG home, no? > I've had a tour of a 5ESS and it was QUITE big, like 50K > square feet at least, not counting the battery room and > the cross connect frames, or the Solar turbine generator. > > Jon > Hmmm, I think I was confused. I think the system I saw was a #3 ESS, not a #5 ESS. Jon From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Tue Sep 24 11:22:47 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 12:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DJ11 Maintenance Manual available Message-ID: <20190924162247.327F318C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> So, I have a copy of the maintenance manual for the DJ11; is this something anyone needs?n If so, I'll move it up the scan queue. Noel From p.gebhardt at ymail.com Tue Sep 24 11:52:33 2019 From: p.gebhardt at ymail.com (P Gebhardt) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:52:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: DJ11 Maintenance Manual available In-Reply-To: <20190924162247.327F318C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190924162247.327F318C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <1446964452.15971454.1569343953873@mail.yahoo.com> Noel, there seems to be a copy of the maintenance manual in the unibus-folder on bitsavers: EK-DJ11-MM-003_DJ11_Maint_Man_Aug76.pdf? Would be worth checking the document revision. What is missing, however, is an engineering manual with the schematics. Best regards, Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de Am Dienstag, 24. September 2019, 18:22:55 MESZ hat Noel Chiappa via cctalk Folgendes geschrieben: So, I have a copy of the maintenance manual for the DJ11; is this something anyone needs?n If so, I'll move it up the scan queue. ? ? ? Noel From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Tue Sep 24 12:10:18 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available Message-ID: <20190924171018.9147F18C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Evan Koblentz > I know of two RP04 drives in the wild. One belongs to a private > collector. VCF has the other. Right, but does VCF need it scanned? Oh, one other place that might have one: the MIT MC KL10 had a couple of RP04's; when it was taken away to Scandanavia, they might have gone with it. I think that machine is now at LCM? Noel From bob099 at centurytel.net Tue Sep 24 13:02:29 2019 From: bob099 at centurytel.net (Bob Yates) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:02:29 -0500 Subject: Timex 16k Ram Expansion on GoodWill auction site Message-ID: https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/76238179 Ending today, just saw it From ethan at 757.org Tue Sep 24 13:15:14 2019 From: ethan at 757.org (Ethan O'Toole) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 14:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: One time, at band camp -> Re: PBXes at home In-Reply-To: <5D8A3FC7.1080503@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <1e06915b-5236-c798-a5be-eb2594f7bbf1@sydex.com> <5D84FA50.4010506@pico-systems.com> <5D8A3FC7.1080503@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: > Hmmm, I think I was confused. I think the system I saw was a #3 ESS, not a > #5 ESS. > Jon Around the 1993 time frame I was at high school band camp for marching band. We had an hour or so for lunch, so a friend and myself headed off to the nearby Burger King. Burger King was located next door to a GTE telephone switch facility in Chesapeake Virginia. The facility had a parking lot, and maybe a yard behind it with the trucks and what not. Lunch happened rapidly, and we were talking about the telephone company building. I had the bright idea that it's also their lunch time, and if we stand in front of the door -- maybe we could get a tour. With some 40 minutes to spare of our lunch, we stood in front of the door and caught the next employee. We asked about a tour, and she said it shouldn't be a problem but she needed to check. She had us wait in the entrance area while she checked with the manager. As I recall the manager wasn't available then, but she said it was fine and she could give us a tour. She started off, but then the manager came and was able to take over. They were both super friendly. He took us in his office and abruptly busted out with "Why you boys so interested in the phone company?" We explained we had BBS systems and were into computers, he seemed to think it was cool. We got a tour of their DMS-100 switch. My eyes were big everytime I saw a modem wired to that puppy, behind the managers back of course. It wasn't terribly large, they explained the building used to be full of switch but with the modern digital one it was now less than 1/8th of the building and the rest of the building became offices. I remember there were the line subscriber modules and the newer ones were twice the density of the older ones, 32 versus 64 POTS lines IIRC. And the 64 POTS lines module wasn't that large. A lot of it was the copper wiring frames with punchdowns. The DC power system was awesome, the whole setup was very clean. The security was higher than I would have imagined, IIRC the manager had to call in before opening the door. All and all it was pretty cool. When we were leaving the manager and the lady were waving goodbye and the manager said "Have a good onee boys! Please don't sabotoge my switch!" It was pretty surreal. He knew. How did he know I read phrack magazine and ran Tone Loc?! We were 20 minutes late getting back but word had gotten back to band director that we were getting a tour of the phone company building. He was cool with it. From cmhanson at eschatologist.net Tue Sep 24 13:25:02 2019 From: cmhanson at eschatologist.net (Chris Hanson) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:25:02 -0700 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? In-Reply-To: <4ec38bd310d52c3015b9e8ed15b6dc32@alanlee.org> References: <6e5309550ec273d09e4b46642fd105b0@alanlee.org> <4ec38bd310d52c3015b9e8ed15b6dc32@alanlee.org> Message-ID: Thank you! -- Chris > On Sep 24, 2019, at 7:32 AM, alan--- via cctalk wrote: > > > I mean to add, that view is looking through the machine not the connector. So with the PSU oriented in it's natural position, that is the pinout of the solder pin tails coming up through the PSU PCB or the face of the connector on the main board. > > Also I never scoped the control pins to figure out their roles. The board and mounting hole dimensions are in the Eagle files. > > -Alan > > On 2019-09-24 10:27, alan--- via cctalk wrote: >> I stuck the files up here for the next few weeks as I don't have a >> project page for it yet: >> https://www.retrotronics.org/tmp/dgpsu >> Hope this helps. >> On 2019-09-24 01:39, Chris Hanson wrote: >>> I?ve seen that datageneral.uk at least has a pinout for an Eclipse MV >>> SCSI port, which hypothetically might match the AViiON DB-50 SCSI. >>> In the absence of real docs though, who can say? >>> Can you post the AViiON AV300D power supply pinout you?ve figured out? >>> Maybe I can power on my system with a couple bench supplies or an ATX >>> supply... >>> ? Chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Sep 24 13:50:30 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 12:50:30 -0600 Subject: sales@elecplus.com In-Reply-To: <018001d572e3$1c17eb90$5447c2b0$@com> References: <20190924140748.01C3118C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <018001d572e3$1c17eb90$5447c2b0$@com> Message-ID: On 9/24/2019 8:19 AM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: > There is an entire process I go through. Paintbrush and vacuum for removing > loose debris. Various cleaners. Ultrasonic cleaner for the caps. It can take > over an hour to really get one looking new again. Well what is it for cleaners? Ben. From cliendo at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:18:18 2019 From: cliendo at gmail.com (Christian Liendo) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 15:18:18 -0400 Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache Message-ID: How did MS-DOS decide that two seconds was the amount of time to keep the floppy disk cache valid? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190924-00/?p=102915 From cliendo at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:40:43 2019 From: cliendo at gmail.com (Christian Liendo) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 15:40:43 -0400 Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I meant to say Raymond Chen and it didn't notice the spell check change Sometimes modern technology sucks. On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:18 PM Christian Liendo wrote: > > How did MS-DOS decide that two seconds was the amount of time to keep > the floppy disk cache valid? > > https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190924-00/?p=102915 From cclist at sydex.com Tue Sep 24 14:51:02 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 12:51:02 -0700 Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/24/19 12:40 PM, Christian Liendo via cctalk wrote: > I meant to say Raymond Chen and it didn't notice the spell check change > > Sometimes modern technology sucks. > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:18 PM Christian Liendo wrote: >> >> How did MS-DOS decide that two seconds was the amount of time to keep >> the floppy disk cache valid? >> >> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190924-00/?p=102915 I don't quite get the bit about the NAND gate, but back in the days of 5.25" floppies there was a way around that one. One need only monitor the drive write-protect status every tick or so. If it toggles, invalidate the cache. I implemented it on a 8085 system, checking the write protect status every 250 msec. The drive needn't be spinning. If you insert or remove a 5.25" disk, the status will change. We even went a bit further and checked to see if the disk contained any files open for writing. If so, we sounded an alert and froze the system until the subject disk was re-inserted. This reduced the number of disk-swapping related errors essentially to zero. --Chuck From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Sep 24 14:53:54 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:53:54 -0600 Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/24/2019 1:40 PM, Christian Liendo via cctalk wrote: > I meant to say Raymond Chen and it didn't notice the spell check change > > Sometimes modern technology sucks. > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:18 PM Christian Liendo wrote: >> >> How did MS-DOS decide that two seconds was the amount of time to keep >> the floppy disk cache valid? >> >> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190924-00/?p=102915 > Well I am guessing, the time the flopppy motor was kept on after a block read/write. Ben. From cclist at sydex.com Tue Sep 24 15:08:25 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:08:25 -0700 Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/24/19 12:53 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > Well I am guessing, the time the flopppy motor was kept on after > a block read/write. Ben. No, the spin-down delay is much longer than that--take a look at the 5150 BIOS. --Chuck From RichA at livingcomputers.org Tue Sep 24 14:14:37 2019 From: RichA at livingcomputers.org (Rich Alderson) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:14:37 +0000 Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: <20190924171018.9147F18C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190924171018.9147F18C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <758db494c0d94144b4307a9007ab0387@livingcomputers.org> > From: Noel Chiappa > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 10:10 AM >> From: Evan Koblentz >> I know of two RP04 drives in the wild. One belongs to a private > > collector. VCF has the other. > Right, but does VCF need it scanned? > Oh, one other place that might have one: the MIT MC KL10 had a couple of > RP04's; when it was taken away to Scandanavia, they might have gone with it. > I think that machine is now at LCM? Yes, and having the RP04 manual scanned would probably be long term helpful. Rich Rich Alderson Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computers: Museum + Labs 2245 1st Ave S Seattle, WA 98134 http://www.LivingComputers.org/ From mechanic_2 at charter.net Tue Sep 24 17:22:05 2019 From: mechanic_2 at charter.net (Richard Pope) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:22:05 -0500 Subject: sales@elecplus.com In-Reply-To: <20190924140748.01C3118C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190924140748.01C3118C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <5D8A970D.6020700@charter.net> Hello all, Every couple of years or so I completely disassemble my keyboard. I wash the case and the keys in hot soapy water and thoroughly rinse. I wipe everything else down. This gets rid of the hair and other junk that builds up in between the keys and the plungers. GOD Bless, rich! On 9/24/2019 9:07 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > Re: Cleaning an old keyboard > Hey, that spiel would be a good start to a great article on the CHWiki, > 'Cleaning keyboards'! (Not sure if any of the other replies contained > anything worth picking up.) > > Noel > From sales at elecplus.com Tue Sep 24 17:38:24 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:38:24 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap Message-ID: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> https://www.ebay.com/itm/174036836066 Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 24 18:13:27 2019 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190924-00/?p=102915 On Tue, 24 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I don't quite get the bit about the NAND gate, but back in the days of > 5.25" floppies there was a way around that one. > One need only monitor the drive write-protect status every tick or so. > If it toggles, invalidate the cache. > I implemented it on a 8085 system, checking the write protect status > every 250 msec. The drive needn't be spinning. If you insert or remove > a 5.25" disk, the status will change. > We even went a bit further and checked to see if the disk contained any > files open for writing. If so, we sounded an alert and froze the system > until the subject disk was re-inserted. This reduced the number of > disk-swapping related errors essentially to zero. And, it presumably worked just fine. They tried TWO of their staff, and neither could change a disk in less that 2 seconds. COULD somebody go from write protected 8" or non-write-protected 5.25" (did you sense door open?) to disk out of drive in under 250ms, and then lso go from door open, no disk to non-write protected disk in drive (door still open?) in under another 250ms? I can't. But if somebody could, then you just need to change that user's settings to about 100ms. From cclist at sydex.com Tue Sep 24 18:34:10 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:34:10 -0700 Subject: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06f64dc3-ae6f-56f7-a7a2-90e49e08ab4e@sydex.com> On 9/24/19 4:13 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > COULD somebody go from write protected 8" or non-write-protected 5.25" > (did you sense door open?) to disk out of drive in under 250ms, and then > lso go from door open, no disk to non-write protected disk in drive > (door still open?) in under another 250ms??? I can't.? But if somebody > could, then you just need to change that user's settings to about 100ms. It's impossible to flip open a drive and change floppies in less than a couple of seconds. We tried. The drives were MIcropolis and MPI drives. --Chuck From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Sep 24 19:36:57 2019 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:36:57 -0400 Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics Message-ID: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> Hi, I'd like to read the second part of the article found here: https://www.schematicsforfree.com/archive/file/Video/Circuits/Video%20Modula tor.pdf I don't have a real print of the magazine and my Google-Fu fails me if it's already scanned somewhere. Thanks, Bill S. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From billdegnan at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 19:51:04 2019 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:51:04 -0400 Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics In-Reply-To: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> References: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have them. what is the title or page numbers of the missing nm pages? On Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 8:37 PM William Sudbrink via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi, > > > > I'd like to read the second part of the article found here: > > > > > https://www.schematicsforfree.com/archive/file/Video/Circuits/Video%20Modula > tor.pdf > > > > > I don't have a real print of the magazine and my Google-Fu fails me if it's > already scanned somewhere. > > > > Thanks, > > Bill S. > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > From rdawson16 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 24 19:58:20 2019 From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 00:58:20 +0000 Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics In-Reply-To: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> References: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: The next issue is here (as well as all pop tronics and radio electronics, Byte and more) https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/70s/1978/Radio-Electronics-1978-09.pdf '' 1' - americanradiohistory.com Tired of Reruns? Fluke counters with a new series in the 5 Hz -520 MHz/time slot. If you're paying over $345 for a counter and getting fre- quency only, tune in on our new 1900 -series of priced -right multicounters. Five different models offer both time and frequency, with award -worthy performance and features; the ratings are www.americanradiohistory.com Good luck Bill! Randy ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of William Sudbrink via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:36 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics Hi, I'd like to read the second part of the article found here: https://www.schematicsforfree.com/archive/file/Video/Circuits/Video%20Modula tor.pdf I don't have a real print of the magazine and my Google-Fu fails me if it's already scanned somewhere. Thanks, Bill S. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From spacewar at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 22:22:41 2019 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:22:41 -0600 Subject: simh, professional 350, 380 In-Reply-To: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> References: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 6:29 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I saw an old version from 2006 as "xhomer" which emulates the > professional 350. Was there anywhere a version, which emulates the 380 I used to work at the same company as the author. He didn't own a 380 and had no real interest in it. From Wayne.Sudol at hotmail.com Tue Sep 24 17:59:29 2019 From: Wayne.Sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:59:29 +0000 Subject: Pro 350 for sale on Craigslist Message-ID: Just saw this ? https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/sys/d/laguna-niguel-vintage-dec-computer-350/6983617174.html Ad Says? Vintage DEC Computer 350 Pro System - $450 (Laguna Niguel) Vintage Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) computer system 350 Professional ( based on PD-11 chipset) 10 MB HDD , Monitor VR-201, Printer : Letterprinter 100 , Enclosure, Extensive set of Documentation. These Items are intended for collectors who have good knowledge and experience with old computers From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com Tue Sep 24 19:48:12 2019 From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 00:48:12 +0000 Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics In-Reply-To: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> References: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Look here. https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/70s/1978/Radio-Electronics-1978-09.pdf ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of William Sudbrink via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:36:57 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics Hi, I'd like to read the second part of the article found here: https://www.schematicsforfree.com/archive/file/Video/Circuits/Video%20Modula tor.pdf I don't have a real print of the magazine and my Google-Fu fails me if it's already scanned somewhere. Thanks, Bill S. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From guykd at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 25 00:56:55 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:56:55 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 05:38 PM 24/09/2019 -0500, Cindy wrote: >https://www.ebay.com/itm/174036836066 Sigh. A whole lot of HP 3497A data acquisition plugins (in the back there, with the pull rings): https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/ZrUAAOSwI5Fdg5KH/$_57.jpg Not sure which cards. Maybe optically isolated A/D or D/A? I have a 3497A. Oh well. This is going to be as frustrating as that other guy selling a huge box of HP cards for gold, for $600. https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-lbs-vintage-1970s-HP-interface-boards-gold-yellow-fingers-for-scrap-recovery/383039137321 Huh, didn't sell yet, what a surprise. And he's dropped the price a whole $50. Must have agonized over that. Guy From pbirkel at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 01:29:24 2019 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 02:29:24 -0400 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <120501d5736a$933a8070$b9af8150$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 1:57 AM To: Electronics Plus; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap ... This is going to be as frustrating as that other guy selling a huge box of HP cards for gold, for $600. https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-lbs-vintage-1970s-HP-interface-boards-gold-yello w-fingers-for-scrap-recovery/383039137321 Huh, didn't sell yet, what a surprise. And he's dropped the price a whole $50. Must have agonized over that. Guy ----- I contacted the seller and was able to work out a very reasonable deal to purchase a selected subset for my future needs. You, or others, might consider doing the same if you have a specific interest. (Rather than a general gripe :-}.) paul From emu at e-bbes.com Wed Sep 25 01:35:00 2019 From: emu at e-bbes.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 02:35:00 -0400 Subject: simh, professional 350, 380 In-Reply-To: References: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <02d6af04-86b2-e253-d970-1b0fa0275ff2@e-bbes.com> On 2019-09-24 23:22, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 6:29 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> I saw an old version from 2006 as "xhomer" which emulates the >> professional 350. Was there anywhere a version, which emulates the 380 > > > I used to work at the same company as the author. He didn't own a 380 and > had no real interest in it. If you know him, could you ask him if his xhome could be integrated into the main SIMH git? Cheers From guykd at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 25 05:07:06 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 20:07:06 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <120501d5736a$933a8070$b9af8150$@gmail.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 02:29 AM 25/09/2019 -0400, you wrote: >I contacted the seller and was able to work out a very reasonable deal to >purchase a selected subset for my future needs. Oh, is that why the price dropped $50? Because some of the boards sold? So really the seller still has the same inflated idea of their worth (for gold.) How sensibly were they padded for shipping? It had seemed like the seller refused to treat them carefully. >You, or others, might consider doing the same if you have a specific >interest. (Rather than a general gripe :-}.) This time I'm not griping about the seller's attitude. It's even a reasonable price, hence there's a bid already. Though the "will be bulk packed" means buying them would involve a discussion about packing care. Incidentally I've identified those boards. The ones with the pull rings: https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/ZrUAAOSwI5Fdg5KH/$_57.jpg They are 12/13 bit isolated DtoA, either voltage or current out. 44429A or 44430A. And I _would_ make an offer for just them, except someone put a bid on the lot within ten minutes of it listing. So now he can't split the lot. (But I've asked if he would anyway.) Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? Guy From pete at dunnington.plus.com Wed Sep 25 05:00:08 2019 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 11:00:08 +0100 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4284acd7-1621-54f3-c1b1-5ba5dcbc30df@dunnington.plus.com> On 24/09/2019 07:30, Philip Belben via cctalk wrote: > PS I wish people wouldn't say WD40 is not a lubricant. It is. > The problem is that it is quite a heavy grease - suitable for (say) door hinges - but when it comes out of the can it looks like a fine oil I do wish people wouldn't say WD40 is a lubricant. It's not. It's a solvent - a light paraffin - carrying a small amount of wax - not grease - and was designed as a water displacer based on a degreaser. This is documented in NASA's official history of Project Mercury, for which it was invented. Try lubricating your fan bearings or bicycle chain with it and see how much it shortens the life, as it washes out the proper lubricant, as it's supposed to do. -- Pete Pete Turnbull From pbirkel at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 06:30:33 2019 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 07:30:33 -0400 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <121e01d57394$a5a55e90$f0f01bb0$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: Guy Dunphy [mailto:guykd at optusnet.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 6:07 AM To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap At 02:29 AM 25/09/2019 -0400, you wrote: >I contacted the seller and was able to work out a very reasonable deal to >purchase a selected subset for my future needs. ... How sensibly were they padded for shipping? It had seemed like the seller refused to treat them carefully. ---- Mine were packed sensibly. He knew that I intended to put them into service. I've had sellers do pretty silly things to even single PCBs despite my asking otherwise. No problems in this case. So I'm a satisfied customer. paul From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 06:43:43 2019 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 06:43:43 -0500 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: <00aa01d572cf$f324ce50$d96e6af0$@com> References: <7aadf54e-7b1d-a717-3aa5-a5b049b5dc35@gmail.com> <00aa01d572cf$f324ce50$d96e6af0$@com> Message-ID: On 9/24/19 7:02 AM, Electronics Plus wrote: > Computer Reset was in Dallas. This one is in Houston. Totally different > animal. Thanks for the clarification - they're not too far, and this guy posted photos of a few items on Facebook which appeared to have been taken in a small garage - so there was the possibility that there was actually no "new warehouse" and this is just a van full of stuff that they hauled out of CR recently and are trying to resell. Jules From linimon at lonesome.com Wed Sep 25 06:47:24 2019 From: linimon at lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 11:47:24 +0000 Subject: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation In-Reply-To: References: <7aadf54e-7b1d-a717-3aa5-a5b049b5dc35@gmail.com> <00aa01d572cf$f324ce50$d96e6af0$@com> Message-ID: <20190925114724.GB19398@lonesome.com> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 06:43:43AM -0500, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote: > Thanks for the clarification - they're not too far Not too far??? I take it you've never driven Interstate 45 :-) What it lacks in miles it makes up in aggressive driving ... mcl From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 06:47:32 2019 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 06:47:32 -0500 Subject: Vintage computer store hints in Minneapolis? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f7bfe0d-f377-fb65-6ea5-65e500e8d818@gmail.com> On 9/23/19 10:22 AM, JP Hindin via cctalk wrote: > I also rolled through The Ax-Man... > for 3 hours because I'd never even heard of the place before and was > absolutely astonished at what I'd found. Despite getting to Minneapolis a few times a year, I've never been for exactly that reason - my wife's always with me and I don't think she'd handle three hours of me geeking out on old crap :-) From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 08:03:51 2019 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 09:03:51 -0400 Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio Electronics In-Reply-To: References: <053501d57339$56733aa0$0359afe0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Just for the record, I have the physical copy, glad I dont have to worry about scannin. B On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 1:04 AM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Look here. > > > https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/70s/1978/Radio-Electronics-1978-09.pdf > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: cctalk on behalf of William > Sudbrink via cctalk > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:36:57 PM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Wanted: Scan of RF modulator article in Sept. 1978 Radio > Electronics > > Hi, > > > > I'd like to read the second part of the article found here: > > > > > https://www.schematicsforfree.com/archive/file/Video/Circuits/Video%20Modula > tor.pdf > > > > > I don't have a real print of the magazine and my Google-Fu fails me if it's > already scanned somewhere. > > > > Thanks, > > Bill S. > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > From paulkoning at comcast.net Wed Sep 25 09:11:11 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:11:11 -0400 Subject: simh, professional 350, 380 In-Reply-To: <02d6af04-86b2-e253-d970-1b0fa0275ff2@e-bbes.com> References: <0434b24a-90c8-9ee6-4c14-df9d9643503a@e-bbes.com> <02d6af04-86b2-e253-d970-1b0fa0275ff2@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <36A933F7-0458-4C16-AC55-450AF171C851@comcast.net> > On Sep 25, 2019, at 2:35 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > > On 2019-09-24 23:22, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 6:29 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk < >> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >>> I saw an old version from 2006 as "xhomer" which emulates the >>> professional 350. Was there anywhere a version, which emulates the 380 >> >> >> I used to work at the same company as the author. He didn't own a 380 and >> had no real interest in it. > > If you know him, > could you ask him if his xhome could be integrated into the main SIMH git? I know that, as it stands, it cannot be integrated because the license conflicts with the current SIMH license. (Actually, it also conflicts with the -- different -- license of the SIMH rev he used as the starting point, which is interesting.) This is the issue I raised before. I got back an answer along the lines of "I'll consider that" but did not hear further. If he's willing to change the license on his code to match the SIMH license, I'd be happy to take on the merge. paul From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Sep 25 09:12:17 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DJ11 Maintenance Manual available Message-ID: <20190925141217.CA5DD18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Pierre Gebhardt > there seems to be a copy of the maintenance manual in the unibus-folder > on bitsavers: EK-DJ11-MM-003_DJ11_Maint_Man_Aug76.pdf Argh! I looked in that folder, but didn't see it! (And Manx says its not online, either.) > Would be worth checking the document revision. Mine's earlier: DEC-11-HDJAA-B-D. > What is missing, however, is an engineering manual with the schematics. Well, the M7820's will be the same as in the DH11. The M7285 and M7279 are DJ11-specific, though. I was going to say that 'does anyone even have any DJ11's any more, to need the drawings' (they're like lobotomized DZ11's - the serial line config is done with jumpers!), but on looking it turns out the RICM probably has some in their -11/45's. Noel From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Sep 25 09:37:31 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 07:37:31 -0700 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: <4284acd7-1621-54f3-c1b1-5ba5dcbc30df@dunnington.plus.com> References: <04d901d57266$0f8458a0$2e8d09e0$@internode.on.net> <4284acd7-1621-54f3-c1b1-5ba5dcbc30df@dunnington.plus.com> Message-ID: <8b9a82e4-4ff3-0f71-186d-a88d8ac9a969@bitsavers.org> On 9/25/19 3:00 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > This is documented in NASA's official history of Project Mercury, for > which it was invented. could you post a pointer to the document where this appears? From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 10:24:56 2019 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:24:56 +0100 Subject: DJ11 Maintenance Manual available In-Reply-To: <20190925141217.CA5DD18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190925141217.CA5DD18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 3:12 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > What is missing, however, is an engineering manual with the schematics. > > Well, the M7820's will be the same as in the DH11. The M7285 and M7279 are > DJ11-specific, though. > > I was going to say that 'does anyone even have any DJ11's any more, to need > the drawings' (they're like lobotomized DZ11's - the serial line config is > done with jumpers!), but on looking it turns out the RICM probably has some in > their -11/45's. I have 4 or 5 DJ11s I think (they're a 4 slot backplane + boards IIRC), the current loop version. None are in use at the moment though. I should have the printset for them too. The problem is that I do not have access to an A3 scanner (and to be honest the way that my scans have been ignored in the past I am not too bothered about finding one!) -tony From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Sep 25 10:29:00 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 11:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard Message-ID: <20190925152900.B5E9C18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Al Kossow >> This is documented in NASA's official history of Project Mercury, for >> which it was invented. > could you post a pointer to the document where this appears? If the reference is to: Lloyd S. Swenson, James M. Grimwood, Charles C. Alexander; "This New Ocean: A History of Project Mercury"; SP-4201; NASA; Washington; 1966 "WD-40" does not appear in the index. There's another less likely book ("Project Mercury: A Chronology", or something like that), but I can't be bothered to drag it out and look, because I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. My understanding is that WD-40 was invented to protect the stainless steel skin of the Atlas ICBM (which was often left un-painted), built by Convair. I do recall seeing this in one of my Atlas books, which is alas currently not shelved, and I don't have time to find it. FWIW, Wikipedia agrees. The rest of that post (about how it's a waxy material in a solvent) is I think correct; it certainly agrees with its original intended usage (above). Noel From bhilpert at shaw.ca Wed Sep 25 14:00:35 2019 From: bhilpert at shaw.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:00:35 -0700 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 series there. Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey handle: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg "HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be an HS Terminal as well. Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, they may all be HSTs. HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, going back to the early machines of the series. (HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one. From pete at dunnington.plus.com Wed Sep 25 14:11:07 2019 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 20:11:07 +0100 Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: <20190925152900.B5E9C18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190925152900.B5E9C18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On 25/09/2019 16:29, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > If the reference is to: > > Lloyd S. Swenson, James M. Grimwood, Charles C. Alexander; "This New > Ocean: A History of Project Mercury"; SP-4201; NASA; Washington; 1966 It is indeed in that. My copy isn't to hand and if it's not indexed then it would take a while to find, but that's where I first saw it. I'm pretty sure it's documented elsewhere too. -- Pete Pete Turnbull From wrcooke at wrcooke.net Wed Sep 25 14:39:00 2019 From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:39:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cleaning an old keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <20190925152900.B5E9C18C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <801903188.545844.1569440340356@email.ionos.com> Maybe here? https://ia600208.us.archive.org/4/items/thisnewoceanhist00swen/thisnewoceanhist00swen.pdf > On September 25, 2019 at 2:11 PM Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > > > On 25/09/2019 16:29, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > If the reference is to: > > > > Lloyd S. Swenson, James M. Grimwood, Charles C. Alexander; "This New > > Ocean: A History of Project Mercury"; SP-4201; NASA; Washington; 1966 > > It is indeed in that. My copy isn't to hand and if it's not indexed > then it would take a while to find, but that's where I first saw it. > I'm pretty sure it's documented elsewhere too. > > -- > Pete > Pete Turnbull "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." --? Antoine de Saint-Exupery "The names of global variables should start with? ? // "? --?https://isocpp.org From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Sep 25 14:59:22 2019 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:59:22 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> At 02:00 PM 9/25/2019, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: >On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > >> Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? What, isn't anyone going to speculate on the value of the gold here? :-) - John From guykd at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 25 16:00:33 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 07:00:33 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190926070033.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 12:00 PM 25/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > >> Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? > > >There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 series there. > >Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey handle: > https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg > >"HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be an HS Terminal as well. >Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, they may all be HSTs. > >HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, >going back to the early machines of the series. > >(HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). > >I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one. Sigh. And here I am putting together a rack with a HP 1000 system. Though, some of those edge connectors look corroded. I really would like those DtoA boards. So many! I have both a 3497A and the 3498A extender plus a need for lots of cards for them. Plus I have the service manual with schematics so can repair them. Anyway... the seller is listed as being in Warren, Rhode Island, United States. I'm in Australia, and have a reshipper in the US. BUT, the reshipper is on the west coast. Is there anyone on this list who lives in that area who could pick them up, then pack and post small sets of boards? I can afford to bid (fingers crossed), but _can't_ afford the postage of "90 lbs" across the continent. Let alone to Australia. The one existing bid, is that anyone here? Guy From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 25 16:23:05 2019 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:23:05 +0100 Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: <758db494c0d94144b4307a9007ab0387@livingcomputers.org> References: <20190924171018.9147F18C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <758db494c0d94144b4307a9007ab0387@livingcomputers.org> Message-ID: On 24/09/2019 20:14, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: > > Yes, and having the RP04 manual scanned would probably be long term helpful. > > Rich It's probably not related but I do have EK-RWP04-MM-001. Is the RWP04 related to the RP04? (The title is "RWP04 moving head disk subsystem maintenance manual", so it's at least in the right ballpark!) Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio at acarlini.com From guykd at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 25 16:25:51 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 07:25:51 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 02:59 PM 25/09/2019 -0500, John wrote: >What, isn't anyone going to speculate on the value of the gold here? :-) The seller would seem to have been pulling rare boards from many old machines, probably scrapping the systems (since they would have been more saleable with the boards installed) then trying to sell the boards in bulk as scrap metal. If that's the case, I'd rather speculate on how many blows to the head with a blunt object, it would take to teach that person the error of their ways. From wdonzelli at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 16:30:35 2019 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 17:30:35 -0400 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: > What, isn't anyone going to speculate on the value of the gold here? :-) Why bother? Everyone's opinion is completely accurate. -- Will From sales at elecplus.com Wed Sep 25 16:46:02 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:46:02 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190926070033.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190926070033.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <08bc01d573ea$a090e6d0$e1b2b470$@com> If enough people want them, and someone gets a winning bid, then they can come to me and I will repackage and ship them for the actual cost of postage. Cindy -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 4:01 PM To: Brent Hilpert; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap At 12:00 PM 25/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > >> Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? > > >There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 series there. > >Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey handle: > https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg > >"HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be an HS Terminal as well. >Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, they may all be HSTs. > >HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, >going back to the early machines of the series. > >(HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). > >I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one. Sigh. And here I am putting together a rack with a HP 1000 system. Though, some of those edge connectors look corroded. I really would like those DtoA boards. So many! I have both a 3497A and the 3498A extender plus a need for lots of cards for them. Plus I have the service manual with schematics so can repair them. Anyway... the seller is listed as being in Warren, Rhode Island, United States. I'm in Australia, and have a reshipper in the US. BUT, the reshipper is on the west coast. Is there anyone on this list who lives in that area who could pick them up, then pack and post small sets of boards? I can afford to bid (fingers crossed), but _can't_ afford the postage of "90 lbs" across the continent. Let alone to Australia. The one existing bid, is that anyone here? Guy --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From spacewar at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 17:12:12 2019 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:12:12 -0600 Subject: DEC RP04 service manual available In-Reply-To: References: <20190924171018.9147F18C085@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <758db494c0d94144b4307a9007ab0387@livingcomputers.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 3:23 PM Antonio Carlini via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > It's probably not related but I do have EK-RWP04-MM-001. Is the RWP04 > related to the RP04? > An RWP04 subsystem includes an RP04 drive and an RH70 Massbus Interface for a PDP-11/70. From sales at elecplus.com Wed Sep 25 19:18:56 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 19:18:56 -0500 Subject: NOS old media and other stuff available Message-ID: <08d601d573ff$fd262d50$f77287f0$@com> Send him an email, and he can send you a list. He is NOT interested in selling 1 or 2 boxes of floppies. He needs volume deals. I have a list of items available from a Value Added Reseller that closed several years ago and had these items in storage. All items are OEM, NOS and include LOTS of data media spanning generations (Round Reel data tapes, 4mm Cassette tapes, ????? Tape Cartridges, 35???, 5.25??? and 8??? Diskettes), Trillium and EnGenius phone equipment, various electronics components and packaging materials. Have images of many of the items available. Email netbuy at bellsouth.net and or buynetworks at gmail.com Netbuy LLC Robb Adams 386-585-5236 Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 20:58:50 2019 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:58:50 -0300 Subject: WTB Metcal workstand Message-ID: <804cdedf-36d1-c281-e6a7-63b6ac910698@gmail.com> Dear sirs I'm looking for a metcal MX500 (so you know what handpiece I have) workstand. Also, cheap tips and a new handle, mine is broken and fixed up man times I don't know if this request is apropriate on this list, but who knows? =) Thanks Alexandre PS: I know there are some on epay... -- ---8<---Corte Aqui---8<--- https://www.tabalabs.com.br https://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com From healyzh at avanthar.com Wed Sep 25 21:03:23 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 19:03:23 -0700 Subject: WTB Metcal workstand In-Reply-To: <804cdedf-36d1-c281-e6a7-63b6ac910698@gmail.com> References: <804cdedf-36d1-c281-e6a7-63b6ac910698@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Sep 25, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote: > > Dear sirs > > I'm looking for a metcal MX500 (so you know what handpiece I have) workstand. Also, cheap tips and a new handle, mine is broken and fixed up man times > > I don't know if this request is apropriate on this list, but who knows? =) > > Thanks > Alexandre > > PS: I know there are some on epay? Is there a good source for cheap Metcal tips? I got mine through this list about 20 years ago, and IIRC, I still need tips. Zane From guykd at optusnet.com.au Wed Sep 25 22:40:55 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:40:55 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190926134055.00e4c300@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 04:46 PM 25/09/2019 -0500, you wrote: >If enough people want them, and someone gets a winning bid, then they can >come to me and I will repackage and ship them for the actual cost of >postage. > >Cindy Thanks for the kind offer. Where are you, relative to the seller? I can see a problem though. Isn't it impossible to have ebay-won items shipped to other than one's ebay-verified address? I'm not sure... I know to get things sent to my reshipper, I have to have them set as my 'real address' before bidding. That's why I asked if anyone is close enough to pick up the boards. Not to mention sidestepping the seller's problematical packing intentions. Guy >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy >via cctalk >Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 4:01 PM >To: Brent Hilpert; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap > >At 12:00 PM 25/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >>On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? >> >> >>There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP >2100/1000 series there. >> >>Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey >handle: >> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg >> >>"HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be >an HS Terminal as well. >>Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, >they may all be HSTs. >> >>HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface >boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, >>going back to the early machines of the series. >> >>(HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to >2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). >> >>I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog >one. > > > >Sigh. And here I am putting together a rack with a HP 1000 system. >Though, some of those edge connectors look corroded. > >I really would like those DtoA boards. So many! I have both a 3497A and the >3498A extender >plus a need for lots of cards for them. Plus I have the service manual with >schematics >so can repair them. > >Anyway... the seller is listed as being in Warren, Rhode Island, United >States. >I'm in Australia, and have a reshipper in the US. BUT, the reshipper is on >the west coast. > >Is there anyone on this list who lives in that area who could pick them up, >then pack and post >small sets of boards? I can afford to bid (fingers crossed), but _can't_ >afford the postage >of "90 lbs" across the continent. Let alone to Australia. > >The one existing bid, is that anyone here? > >Guy > > >--- >This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > From doc at vaxen.net Thu Sep 26 00:14:17 2019 From: doc at vaxen.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 00:14:17 -0500 Subject: WTB Metcal workstand In-Reply-To: References: <804cdedf-36d1-c281-e6a7-63b6ac910698@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3673DC7C-898B-41EC-9F9E-27A31456E6BD@vaxen.net> On September 25, 2019 9:03:23 PM CDT, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > >> On Sep 25, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk > wrote: >> >> Dear sirs >> >> I'm looking for a metcal MX500 (so you know what handpiece I have) >workstand. Also, cheap tips and a new handle, mine is broken and fixed >up man times >> >> I don't know if this request is apropriate on this list, but who >knows? =) >> >> Thanks >> Alexandre >> >> PS: I know there are some on epay? > > >Is there a good source for cheap Metcal tips? I got mine through this >list about 20 years ago, and IIRC, I still need tips. > >Zane -- I just replaced my old Metcal base unit - a PS2E? - last year off ebay for $40. I get tips NIB for $8-15. It's old, and ugly, and probably not as efficient as the new ones, but I can do sub-mm trace repairs with it, or build a working harness for my motorcycle. I love me some Metcal. Doc Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From sales at elecplus.com Thu Sep 26 09:11:09 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 09:11:09 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190926133918.00de8348@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <3.0.6.32.20190926070033.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190926070033.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190926133918.00de8348@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <0a2101d57474$3f052db0$bd0f8910$@com> He is in RI, and I am in TX. Your shipper is in Calif. You might consider contacting one of the computer museums in Rhode Island to see if they will assist you. http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/ https://www.rcsri.org/ Cindy -----Original Message----- From: Guy Dunphy [mailto:guykd at optusnet.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 10:39 PM To: Electronics Plus Subject: RE: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap At 04:46 PM 25/09/2019 -0500, you wrote: >If enough people want them, and someone gets a winning bid, then they can >come to me and I will repackage and ship them for the actual cost of >postage. > >Cindy Thanks for the kind offer. Where are you, relative to the seller? I can see a problem though. Isn't it impossible to have ebay-won items shipped to other than one's ebay-verified address? I'm not sure... I know to get things sent to my reshipper, I have to have them set as my 'real address' before bidding. That's why I asked if anyone is close enough to pick up the boards. Not to mention sidestepping the seller's problematical packing intentions. Guy >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy >via cctalk >Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 4:01 PM >To: Brent Hilpert; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap > >At 12:00 PM 25/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >>On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? >> >> >>There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP >2100/1000 series there. >> >>Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey >handle: >> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg >> >>"HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be >an HS Terminal as well. >>Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, >they may all be HSTs. >> >>HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface >boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, >>going back to the early machines of the series. >> >>(HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to >2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). >> >>I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog >one. > > > >Sigh. And here I am putting together a rack with a HP 1000 system. >Though, some of those edge connectors look corroded. > >I really would like those DtoA boards. So many! I have both a 3497A and the >3498A extender >plus a need for lots of cards for them. Plus I have the service manual with >schematics >so can repair them. > >Anyway... the seller is listed as being in Warren, Rhode Island, United >States. >I'm in Australia, and have a reshipper in the US. BUT, the reshipper is on >the west coast. > >Is there anyone on this list who lives in that area who could pick them up, >then pack and post >small sets of boards? I can afford to bid (fingers crossed), but _can't_ >afford the postage >of "90 lbs" across the continent. Let alone to Australia. > >The one existing bid, is that anyone here? > >Guy > > >--- >This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > From pat at vax11.net Thu Sep 26 09:24:35 2019 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:24:35 -0400 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 17:26 Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > At 02:59 PM 25/09/2019 -0500, John wrote: > >What, isn't anyone going to speculate on the value of the gold here? :-) > > > The seller would seem to have been pulling rare boards from many old > machines, > probably scrapping the systems (since they would have been more saleable > with > the boards installed) then trying to sell the boards in bulk as scrap > metal. > > If that's the case, I'd rather speculate on how many blows to the head with > a blunt object, it would take to teach that person the error of their ways. > 1. I've got boxes of boards that are useful, which came out of undesirable systems, incomplete or otherwise broken systems, boards that were purchased as spares, etc. 2. The systems are harder to ship than the boards. I doubt if you're unwilling to have a pile of boards shipped to you, that you'd pay shipping on a whole system. 3. Just because you have different opinions doesn't mean their ways are wrong. Hell, they even seem to be willing to work with people interested in single boards. I'm sure they're putting "GOLD!!!" in the title for advertising's sake. It seems to have worked just fine for advertising here .. 4. Maybe just quit whining? If you can't get what you want where you are, to quote the immortal words of Dave McGuire, "Time to move!" Pat > From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Sep 26 09:54:02 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 07:54:02 -0700 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <76d42dd0-927b-39a8-ba8c-81bb1b6c6ef8@bitsavers.org> On 9/26/19 7:24 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > 3. Just because you have different opinions doesn't mean their ways > are wrong. If you follow their listings, the seller has been trying to move this stuff for a while. From marvin at west.net Thu Sep 26 12:31:34 2019 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:31:34 -0700 Subject: WTB Metcal workstand Message-ID: <15febf7c-5050-7285-b494-2c59887c9645@west.net> A friend of mine, Harold Fue, has been selling new and used soldering equipment for many years, and may well have what you are looking for. My knowledge of Metcal is limited, but I bought a number of new tips, a used SP-200 unit with handpiece and the handpiece holder from him a couple years ago. A search on google for "harold fue santa barbara" came up with his contact information. He has been selling at Dayton Hamvention for who knows how many years, but an auto accident a year or so ago totaled his vehicle and slowed him up (he is in his mid 80's) from doing that. Marvin > >> On Sep 25, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote: >> >> Dear sirs >> >> I'm looking for a metcal MX500 (so you know what handpiece I have) workstand. Also, cheap tips and a new handle, mine is broken and fixed up man times >> >> I don't know if this request is apropriate on this list, but who knows? =) >> >> Thanks >> Alexandre >> >> PS: I know there are some on epay? > > > Is there a good source for cheap Metcal tips? I got mine through this list about 20 years ago, and IIRC, I still need tips. > > Zane From sales at elecplus.com Thu Sep 26 14:42:19 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:42:19 -0500 Subject: Houston "clearance" Message-ID: <0ca601d574a2$82abd180$88037480$@com> https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=jonnyadler &LH_PrefLoc=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2499338.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xkeyboard .TRS0&_nkw=keyboard&_sacat=0 These are the kinds of prices you can expect from the guy in Houston. It was posted earlier as a warehouse clearance. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From cube1 at charter.net Thu Sep 26 17:39:59 2019 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 17:39:59 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> On 9/25/2019 2:00 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: > On 2019-Sep-25, at 3:07 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > >> Does anyone else recognise some of the other boards? > > > There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 series there. > > Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey handle: > https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg > > "HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be an HS Terminal as well. > Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, they may all be HSTs. > > HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, > going back to the early machines of the series. > > (HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). > > I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one. > > I would be in that same camp, assuming one of these would also work in a 2112B ("M Series") machine. JRJ From sales at elecplus.com Thu Sep 26 19:35:47 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 19:35:47 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> Message-ID: <0d6e01d574cb$82468360$86d38a20$@com> I have contacted the seller and asked what it would take to get these boards ESD wrapped and properly packaged to me in TX. We will see if he is willing... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Electronics Plus via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:38 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap https://www.ebay.com/itm/174036836066 Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From curiousmarc3 at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 20:08:35 2019 From: curiousmarc3 at gmail.com (CuriousMarc) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 18:08:35 -0700 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <145001d574d0$1760b110$46221330$@gmail.com> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy > Dunphy via cctalk > Incidentally I've identified those boards. The ones with the pull rings: > > https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/ZrUAAOSwI5Fdg5KH/$_57.j > pg > > They are 12/13 bit isolated DtoA, either voltage or current out. 44429A or > 44430A. These are the current ones, recognizable by the blue 4 screw posts (the voltage ones have 8 screw posts). So it would be a pile of 44430A. I have a working HP 3497, so I could use one or two! Marc From steven at malikoff.com Thu Sep 26 20:39:45 2019 From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:39:45 +1000 Subject: FTGH VME Microsystems VMEbus DMA interface card manual Message-ID: <2c5cd689618267d1f763779a9f50b32a.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> VME Systems VMEbus DMA Interface card manual. 1991 reprint from 1986. About 100+ pages, schematic, asm test routines http://web.aanet.com.au/~malikoff/blah/ I didn't see it on bitsavers. I don't have any VMEbus gear so no point it taking up space here. Yours for postage from Brisbane, Oz. Steve. From couryhouse at aol.com Fri Sep 27 02:10:12 2019 From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 07:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html From guykd at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 27 03:26:40 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:26:40 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <145001d574d0$1760b110$46221330$@gmail.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190927182640.01298ff8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 06:08 PM 26/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy >> Dunphy via cctalk >> Incidentally I've identified those boards. The ones with the pull rings: >> >> https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/ZrUAAOSwI5Fdg5KH/$_57.j >> pg >> >> They are 12/13 bit isolated DtoA, either voltage or current out. 44429A or >> 44430A. > >These are the current ones, recognizable by the blue 4 screw posts (the >voltage ones have 8 screw posts). So it would be a pile of 44430A. I have a >working HP 3497, so I could use one or two! >Marc Well, if I were to bid, I'd use my usual snipe service: https://www.bidnapper.com/ But the postage of US$159.91 (to CA) kills it for me. It wouldn't be much less to TX, and anyway I don't think ebay allows to specify some other shipping address. Plus I expect that even if he can be persuaded to pack responsibly, he'll want more money to do so. Cindy: >I have contacted the seller and asked what it would take to get these boards >ESD wrapped and properly packaged to me in TX. We will see if he is >willing... Please let us know if he responds usefully. Btw it's not so much ESD protection needed, more physical padding to avoid the boards grinding against each other in transport. Have you used a snipe bidding service? I recommend it. If you buy them, I'll take all the HP DtoA cards (minus 2 for Marc) and a couple of the HP 1000 serial cards, for US$130. Plus postage from you to CA. Payment by paypal. Does that sound OK to you? Then of course there is the question of what snipe bid would be likely to beat whatever that one existing bid is. I'd be inclined to guess that person has placed a minimal bid. People who bid early typically do that. Guy From pbirkel at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 04:34:21 2019 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 05:34:21 -0400 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> Message-ID: <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via cctalk Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:40 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap ... > There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 series there. > > Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey handle: > https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg > > "HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be an HS Terminal as well. > Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, they may all be HSTs. > > HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, > going back to the early machines of the series. > > (HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). > > I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one. > > I would be in that same camp, assuming one of these would also work in a 2112B ("M Series") machine. JRJ ----- They are readily available, individually, on eBay. See "HP12531". There are currently two listed at reasonable prices, plus reasonable shipping. For reference, this: http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?catfile=236 You probably want the HP 12531D. Both of the current eBay listings are the "D". I believe that the HP 12531C is what is visible on http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=111 paul From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Sep 27 08:47:39 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 09:47:39 -0400 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> I make it a habit to assume that every email which contains just a link but no explanation is a scam with a forged sender address. Ed, if this is actually from you and actually real, and you want people to look at it, you need to say what the link is. paul > On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:10 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > > http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html > From bhilpert at shaw.ca Fri Sep 27 11:22:54 2019 From: bhilpert at shaw.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 09:22:54 -0700 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 2019-Sep-27, at 6:47 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I make it a habit to assume that every email which contains just a link but no explanation is a scam with a forged sender address. > > Ed, if this is actually from you and actually real, and you want people to look at it, you need to say what the link is. > >> On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:10 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> >> http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html "... explored these processes of repair and has focused on their non-linear temporalities." "Repair does not necessarily focus solely on ?the reproduction of social and material order,? but also opens up space for the ?creative, inventive and innovative work that happens in the process of fixing, across human and non-human bodies." "... offering us a way to historicize and contextualize the work of repair and maintenance. That means avoiding the romanticization of repair while also recognizing ?traditions of women's work, domestic and reproductive labor, and all acts of preservation, formal and informal.?" Don't waste your time, unless you're going for some entertainment in watching ridiculous people. From cclist at sydex.com Fri Sep 27 13:07:53 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:07:53 -0700 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 9/27/19 9:22 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: > On 2019-Sep-27, at 6:47 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> I make it a habit to assume that every email which contains just a >> link but no explanation is a scam with a forged sender address. >> >> Ed, if this is actually from you and actually real, and you want >> people to look at it, you need to say what the link is. >> >>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:10 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html > > > "... explored these processes of repair and has focused on their > non-linear temporalities." > > "Repair does not necessarily focus solely on ?the reproduction of > social and material order,? but also opens up space for the > ?creative, inventive and innovative work that happens in the process > of fixing, across human and non-human bodies." > > "... offering us a way to historicize and contextualize the work of > repair and maintenance. That means avoiding the romanticization of > repair while also recognizing ?traditions of women's work, domestic > and reproductive labor, and all acts of preservation, formal and > informal.?" > > > Don't waste your time, unless you're going for some entertainment in > watching ridiculous people. My reaction also--bunch of word salad devoid of meaningful information that reads like someone's attempt at a dissertation. --Chuck From allisonportable at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 13:23:57 2019 From: allisonportable at gmail.com (allison) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:23:57 -0400 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <334ad173-f38f-5486-c61d-695f2caa60ce@gmail.com> On 9/27/19 2:07 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 9/27/19 9:22 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: >> On 2019-Sep-27, at 6:47 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> I make it a habit to assume that every email which contains just a >>> link but no explanation is a scam with a forged sender address. >>> >>> Ed, if this is actually from you and actually real, and you want >>> people to look at it, you need to say what the link is. >>> >>>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:10 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html >> >> >> "... explored these processes of repair and has focused on their >> non-linear temporalities." >> >> "Repair does not necessarily focus solely on ?the reproduction of >> social and material order,? but also opens up space for the >> ?creative, inventive and innovative work that happens in the process >> of fixing, across human and non-human bodies." >> >> "... offering us a way to historicize and contextualize the work of >> repair and maintenance. That means avoiding the romanticization of >> repair while also recognizing ?traditions of women's work, domestic >> and reproductive labor, and all acts of preservation, formal and >> informal.?" >> >> >> Don't waste your time, unless you're going for some entertainment in >> watching ridiculous people. > > My reaction also--bunch of word salad devoid of meaningful information > that reads like someone's attempt at a dissertation. > > --Chuck > This topic has gotten far more words and attention than the poorly written mental spew that pretends to be intellectual. If I were grading their work it would be a D- and a fail is less significant. The scam is eating your time which is worth something with nothing in reward. Lets call it 5 minutes you will never get back. Allison From healyzh at avanthar.com Fri Sep 27 13:59:16 2019 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:59:16 -0700 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: <334ad173-f38f-5486-c61d-695f2caa60ce@gmail.com> References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> <334ad173-f38f-5486-c61d-695f2caa60ce@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:23 AM, allison via cctalk wrote: > > This topic has gotten far more words and attention than the poorly > written mental spew that pretends to be intellectual. If I were > grading their work it would be a D- and a fail is less significant. > > The scam is eating your time which is worth something with nothing in > reward. Lets call it 5 minutes you will never get back. > > Allison Thanks Allison, you saved me from being curious! Zane From frederic.hugelin at icloud.com Fri Sep 27 14:52:00 2019 From: frederic.hugelin at icloud.com (=?utf-8?Q?Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric_Hugelin?=) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:52:00 +0200 Subject: FTGH: Pioneer DRM-602X 6-CD changer Message-ID: Hello, I have read your message about pioneer drm-604. I bought one on eBay but the sender didn?t t take out the caddy for shipping and I can t take it out from the player. I would like to know if you could share the service manual or if you have a tuto to diy. Thank you in advance for your help. Regards Fr?d?ric From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Sep 27 15:53:31 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 13:53:31 -0700 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: <334ad173-f38f-5486-c61d-695f2caa60ce@gmail.com> References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> <334ad173-f38f-5486-c61d-695f2caa60ce@gmail.com> Message-ID: <68d39470-f1a6-b081-e4f3-000de3820d40@bitsavers.org> Welcome to the world of "Digital Humanities" scholarship. On 9/27/19 11:23 AM, allison via cctalk wrote: > The scam is eating your time which is worth something with nothing in > reward. Lets call it 5 minutes you will never get back. > > Allison > > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Sep 27 15:56:43 2019 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (jwest at classiccmp.org) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:56:43 -0500 Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: <68d39470-f1a6-b081-e4f3-000de3820d40@bitsavers.org> References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> <334ad173-f38f-5486-c61d-695f2caa60ce@gmail.com> <68d39470-f1a6-b081-e4f3-000de3820d40@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <000e01d57576$11d28e20$3577aa60$@classiccmp.org> Al wrote.... Welcome to the world of "Digital Humanities" scholarship. Agreed, that link was feel-good gibberish. *facepalm* From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Sep 27 16:20:01 2019 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:20:01 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools Subystem for Prime Computers In-Reply-To: <201909241945.x8OJjTCX032294@skeeve.com> References: <201909241945.x8OJjTCX032294@skeeve.com> Message-ID: Have been on the road, and I just noticed this announcement on the TUHS list. I'd been trying to find this for a long time -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools Subystem for Prime Computers Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:45:29 +0300 From: Arnold Robbins To: tuhs at tuhs.org Hello All. Believed lost in the mists of time for over 30 years, the Georgia Tech Software Tools Subsystem for Prime Computers, along with the Georgia Tech C Compiler for Prime Computers, have been recovered! The source code and documentation (and binary files) are available in a Github repo: https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/gt-swt. The README.md there provides some brief history and credits with respect to the recovery, and w.r.t. the subsystem and C compilers themselves. Credit to Scott Lee for making and keeping the tapes and driving the recovery process, and to Dennis Boone and yours truly for contributing financially. I set up the repo. For anyone who used and/or contributed to this software, we hope you'll enjoy this trip down memory lane. Feel free to forward this note to interested parties. Enjoy, Arnold Robbins (On behalf of the swt recovery team. :-) From tosteve at yahoo.com Fri Sep 27 16:53:29 2019 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven stengel) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:53:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Update: Received my 50lb Datapoint 2200 computer from Austria via regular post. In-Reply-To: <16d486a1-b664-edd3-c53c-db172869b07e@greenmail.ch> References: <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922965384.7892354.1569274580328@mail.yahoo.com> <16d486a1-b664-edd3-c53c-db172869b07e@greenmail.ch> Message-ID: <1227036837.309849.1569621209679@mail.yahoo.com> Sorry for top-post - it?s the yahoo app.?So the purpose of the extra screen layer is to prevent crt implosion?? How did you remove it? It?s safe to remove it, as long as I don?t hit the screen with a hammer? Thanks-Steve.? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, September 24, 2019, 1:34 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: On 23.09.19 23:36, steven stengel via cctalk wrote: > First, I have to rewire it from 220vac to 110vac. Lucky you, I would have driven over if had known about it ! Only a one-day return trip for me.... Be carefully : some parts on the big cooling block are directly connected to mains. > Second - what to do about that screen? Repair / clean it of course. This is what I did to my DP1100 : Before : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Console/CPU_before.jpg During : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Console/Pull_off_remaining_goo.jpg Result? : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Console/CPU_after.jpg .. and the full machine, in its orginal Datapoint desk : ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Datapoint/Pictures/Datapoint_1100.jpg Jos From sieler at allegro.com Fri Sep 27 17:01:17 2019 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:01:17 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville Message-ID: Hi, A friend tells me that there is a Hewlett-Packard HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville (no word as to price, but I suspect it's free ... the owner wants it to go to a good home). Reportedly running, with additional "mini-tower" (PC size or less) of external disks, a DTC (Distributed Terminal Controller, lets you have up to 32 RS232 terminals attached (depending upon model of DTC)), and an external tape drive (probably DDS, but I don't know for sure). If interested, email me at sieler at allegro.com and I'll put you in touch with the friend of the Vacaville guy. thanks, Stan From leec2124 at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 17:40:43 2019 From: leec2124 at gmail.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:40:43 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is a *very* nice entry-level HP3000/MPE system based on PA-RISC architecture. But one note - the 917 had the soldered TOD battery on the motherboard, vs. the FRU TOD battery in the later 918. Not a reason to skip if you are interested in this machine. Lee C. On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 3:01 PM Stan Sieler via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi, > > A friend tells me that there is a Hewlett-Packard HP3000/917LX available in > Vacaville (no word as to price, but I suspect it's free ... the owner wants > it to go to a good home). Reportedly running, with additional "mini-tower" > (PC size or less) of external disks, a DTC (Distributed Terminal > Controller, lets you have up to 32 RS232 terminals attached (depending upon > model of DTC)), and an external tape drive (probably DDS, but I don't know > for sure). > > If interested, email me at sieler at allegro.com and I'll put you in touch > with > the friend of the Vacaville guy. > > thanks, > > Stan > -- Lee Courtney +1-650-704-3934 cell From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Fri Sep 27 19:07:51 2019 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 00:07:51 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools Subystem for Prime Computers In-Reply-To: References: <201909241945.x8OJjTCX032294@skeeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/27/19 5:20 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > Have been on the road, and I just noticed this announcement on the TUHS > list. > I'd been trying to find this for a long time So had I. Glad to see it recovered. I had contacted GIT more than a decade ago and was told all of it had been thrown away long before. Now, if we can find some of the others maybe we can revive the Software Tools User Group. :-) bill > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject:???? [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools > Subystem for Prime Computers > Date:???? Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:45:29 +0300 > From:???? Arnold Robbins > To:???? tuhs at tuhs.org > > > > Hello All. > > Believed lost in the mists of time for over 30 years, the Georgia Tech > Software Tools Subsystem for Prime Computers, along with the Georgia Tech > C Compiler for Prime Computers, have been recovered! > > The source code and documentation (and binary files) are available in a > Github repo: https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/gt-swt. > > The README.md there provides some brief history and credits with respect > to the recovery, and w.r.t. the subsystem and C compilers themselves. > > Credit to Scott Lee for making and keeping the tapes and driving the > recovery process, and to Dennis Boone and yours truly for contributing > financially. I set up the repo. > > For anyone who used and/or contributed to this software, we hope you'll > enjoy this trip down memory lane. > > Feel free to forward this note to interested parties. > > Enjoy, > > Arnold Robbins > (On behalf of the swt recovery team. :-) From cmhanson at eschatologist.net Fri Sep 27 19:42:55 2019 From: cmhanson at eschatologist.net (Chris Hanson) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 17:42:55 -0700 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <56201AE5-297F-4B1B-921B-5C44C1AB2212@eschatologist.net> On Sep 26, 2019, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > > 3. Just because you have different opinions doesn't mean their ways are > wrong. Hell, they even seem to be willing to work with people interested in > single boards. I'm sure they're putting "GOLD!!!" in the title for > advertising's sake. It seems to have worked just fine for advertising here > .. > > 4. Maybe just quit whining? If you can't get what you want where you are, > to quote the immortal words of Dave McGuire, "Time to move!? Destroying something that?s useful in the name of a quick buck is wrong. -- Chris From guykd at optusnet.com.au Fri Sep 27 21:43:36 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:43:36 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <56201AE5-297F-4B1B-921B-5C44C1AB2212@eschatologist.net> References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190928124336.012f3788@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 05:42 PM 27/09/2019 -0700, you wrote: >On Sep 26, 2019, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: >> >> 3. Just because you have different opinions doesn't mean their ways are >> wrong. Hell, they even seem to be willing to work with people interested in >> single boards. I'm sure they're putting "GOLD!!!" in the title for >> advertising's sake. It seems to have worked just fine for advertising here >> .. >> >> 4. Maybe just quit whining? If you can't get what you want where you are, >> to quote the immortal words of Dave McGuire, "Time to move!??? > > >Destroying something that???s useful in the name of a quick buck is wrong. > > -- Chris Thanks Cris. This is my view too, but I didn't want to get into _another_ argument about that. I've been browsing that seller's other listings. I can see where they are coming from. They are a very high volume surplus electronics seller. Quite a bit overpriced on many items but there are some nice deals. I think they just don't have time to give much attention to individual items. Which is unfortunate for interested parties. Like in this "90 lbs PCBs" instance. Here are some other vintage computing items of interest from that seller: 183963257634 Lot x22 NEW Vintage HP 46021A HP-HIL Terminal Keyboards Don't Include HIL Cables OH MY GOSH! It took me forever just to find one HP-HIL keyboard recently. But offering these vintage NOS keyboards as a lot of 22... that's a bit sad. Seller must be short of storage space. 174036823643 Lot x50 Vintage HP 82936A 80 Series 85A 85B 86A 86B ROM Drawer Holder No ROMs 183875053275 Vintage HP 12005-60010 Asynchronous Serial Interface Board 1000 Series Computer Back to the stack of circuit boards: The original bidder's offer is something higher than $150, so Cindy's bid got auto-bid beaten. Looking at that original bidder's ebay buying history, they're apparently a scrap gold buyer. At their activity rate, they've probably built up their rating of 394 fairly quickly. They don't snipe bid, and they do engage in bidding competitions. Ergo, that bidder is an idiot (or has money to burn), and also may still have an unrealistic expectation of the overall economics of gold recovery. Probably best to give up. Also since we've expressed interest to the seller, and piled on eleven watchers, the chances of the seller now fake bidding the price up are significant. Guy From cube1 at charter.net Fri Sep 27 22:03:53 2019 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:03:53 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <529507ff-3043-8e58-a276-a10af6a0e1fe@charter.net> On 9/27/2019 4:34 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:40 PM > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap > > ... >> There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 series there. >> >> Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey handle: >> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg >> >> "HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be an HS Terminal as well. >> Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, they may all be HSTs. >> >> HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series, >> going back to the early machines of the series. >> >> (HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds). >> >> I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one. >> >> > > I would be in that same camp, assuming one of these would also work in a > 2112B ("M Series") machine. > > JRJ > > ----- > > They are readily available, individually, on eBay. See "HP12531". > There are currently two listed at reasonable prices, plus reasonable shipping. > > For reference, this: http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?catfile=236 > > You probably want the HP 12531D. Both of the current eBay listings are the "D". > > I believe that the HP 12531C is what is visible on http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=111 > > paul > > Thanks for the tip. (Part of not recognizing that is that I had never made the connection between the 2108B/2112B and the "1000" series before, until I read about it in this thread, and did some poking around. The HP's have not been one of my priorities in over a couple of decades, and most of of that focus was on my older HP2114B.) JRJ From silent700 at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 23:27:32 2019 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 23:27:32 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest 14 Wrap-Up Message-ID: Hello all - VCFMW14 has come and gone and we're left with lots of photo galleries, a few videos and hopefully fond memories for all. It was a new venue this year and an unprecedented (and unexpected - seriously we filled the place) turnout. Wheels are in motion toward doing it again next year but for now we're just going to rest a little first. Here's a link to all of the known-thus-far pics and vids: http://vcfmw.org/past.html The videos of the actual VCFMW Talks are being scrupulously compiled and encoded and another announcement will go out soon when they're ready. For now, check out the cool setup time-lapse and visitor review videos at the link above. It's looking like we're going to do a reprint run of this year's official shirt because so many were unable to purchase one at the show (see the bit above about unexpected turnout). Maybe you'd like one, too. There's a size survey form in our latest mailing list message here: https://us18.admin.mailchimp.com/campaigns/show?id=389367 And finally a big THANK YOU to all who donated, displayed, volunteered and attended in order to make VCF Midwest the most enjoyable and exhausting weekend of the year for us. -j From cmhanson at eschatologist.net Sat Sep 28 14:45:35 2019 From: cmhanson at eschatologist.net (Chris Hanson) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:45:35 -0700 Subject: Data General AViiON AV300D docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One thing I?ve done is dump the ROMs in my two AV300D. They?re identical except for the last 4 bytes, which I suspect is where their host/Ethernet ID comes from. Unfortunately while the ROM is a JEDEC 1Mbit part, my dump doesn?t look coherent, in that there?s no simple ASCII text like appears at boot, and the contents at 0 are not proper 88100 instructions. I expect Data General didn?t use D[7-0] on the ROM as D[7-0] ? and may not have used A[16-0] as A[16-0] either. And since my systems have bum power supplies, I can?t boot them and dump the ROMs that way. Anyone have a running AV300 or AV400 system from which you could dump the ROM via SCM (the boot monitor)? Then I could compare it with my dump and figure out how it?s wired up. If anyone likes puzzles, here are the last 8 bytes of each system?s ROM: $ tail -n 1 AV300-10794-01-1AFB.hex 0001fff0: ffff ffff ffff ffff 7184 f4a2 04fb 67fe $ tail -n 1 AV300-10794-01-3163.hex 0001fff0: ffff ffff ffff ffff 7184 f4a2 9cfa f7fc The ROMs were labeled 1AFB and 3163 respectively. If anyone can see a coherent mapping in that, I?d be quite happy. :) ? Chris From sieler at allegro.com Sat Sep 28 18:26:59 2019 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 16:26:59 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lee writes: > This is a *very* nice entry-level HP3000/MPE system based on PA-RISC > architecture. But one note - the 917 had the soldered TOD battery on the > motherboard, vs. the FRU TOD battery in the later 918. Not a reason to skip > if you are interested in this machine. True, there's been some discussion of that over on HP3000-L. IIRC, it's still possible to boot even if the battery is dead ... boot to the ISL> prompt, run clkutil, set the date, then exit to ISL>, then run 'START'. Stan From sieler at allegro.com Sat Sep 28 19:40:02 2019 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:40:02 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've had two people contact me saying they're interested. When the first one came in, I put him in contact with the guy who knows the Vacaville HP3000 owner. I let the second person know they were next on the list (had the second come in before I attended to the first, I'd have sent both names over). Does the list have a suggested etiquette for this? thanks, Stan From couryhouse at aol.com Sun Sep 29 00:12:54 2019 From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 05:12:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: fix? Repair? or leave alone? http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html In-Reply-To: References: <548452757.55874.1569568212012.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <548452757.55874.1569568212012@mail.yahoo.com> <53229677-4FB8-4482-997B-03CAFC150E3B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <11667287.556463.1569733974053@mail.yahoo.com> opps? sorry? yes it is I. In a message dated 9/27/2019 9:23:05 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: On 2019-Sep-27, at 6:47 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I make it a habit to assume that every email which contains just a link but no explanation is a scam with a forged sender address. > > Ed, if this is actually from you and actually real, and you want people to look at it, you need to say what the link is. > >> On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:10 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> >> http://rcade.camden.rutgers.edu/2020symposium.html "... explored these processes of repair and has focused on their non-linear temporalities." "Repair does not necessarily focus solely on ?the reproduction of social and material order,? but also opens up space for the ?creative, inventive and innovative work that happens in the process of fixing, across human and non-human bodies." "... offering us a way to historicize and contextualize the work of repair and maintenance. That means avoiding the romanticization of repair while also recognizing ?traditions of women's work, domestic and reproductive labor, and all acts of preservation, formal and informal.?" Don't waste your time, unless you're going for some entertainment in watching ridiculous people. From tdk.knight at gmail.com Sat Sep 28 08:43:20 2019 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 08:43:20 -0500 Subject: FTGH: Pioneer DRM-602X 6-CD changer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: have you tried asking over on https://www.diyaudio.com/ or here https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php From jwsmail at jwsss.com Sat Sep 28 14:02:57 2019 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:02:57 -0700 Subject: FTGH: Pioneer DRM-602X 6-CD changer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83a009d4-917b-63b7-caed-6aa2692bdae7@jwsss.com> Pioneer's engineering for their digital products was in Torrance I think.? We dealt with a rep and I ended up with one of their 3 x 6 pack 18 disc changer boxes.? But they would not part with anything at all useful.? The only document I ever pried out of them was how to make my fancy SCSI digital player play audio disks.? Which is mostly what I used it for. The 18 disk changer had all sorts of fancy commands, but only one engineering release of drivers in the 98 (I think) days.? They had no use for SCO Unix and considered any other such later systems as toys or not worth their time. Needless to say telling them and having their Rep who was a friend pound on them about the attitude went nowhere as did the product. The typical management most places other than Tandberg and to some extent Teac was that such outcomes were due to lack of marketing interest, despite a number of people saying they were interested if they could get info and write drivers. None of the information would have enabled any competitor to discern any secrets, and would have helped were they all to standardize their tricks. FWIW IIRC the drivers and software for windows that was release only allowed you to automate playing songs from disks thru the audio out on the deck.? They had the capability to rip or read and play thru windows or stream (were someone to get to more than one cd) at the time, but the powers that be didn't care. I have 2 of the 6 channel internal ones, one of the single 6 pack units and one of the 3 x 6 pack units.? I think NEC made the one which stores the cds internally and spits them out.? Pioneer had the 6 pack gizmo. thanks Jim On 9/28/2019 6:43 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctech wrote: > have you tried asking over on > https://www.diyaudio.com/ > > or here > https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php > > From vax11.net at gmail.com Sat Sep 28 15:29:58 2019 From: vax11.net at gmail.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 16:29:58 -0400 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap In-Reply-To: <56201AE5-297F-4B1B-921B-5C44C1AB2212@eschatologist.net> References: <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <20190925195936.C41CD4E763@mx2.ezwind.net> <3.0.6.32.20190926072551.012b9da8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <56201AE5-297F-4B1B-921B-5C44C1AB2212@eschatologist.net> Message-ID: Destroying something that?s useful in the name of a quick buck is wrong. > > -- Chris > It probably would have ended up at a board recycler or in a dumpster instead of on eBay where you have a chance of acquiring it. If you're not happy with the "quick buck" the scrappers are getting, just offer more money than they're getting in scrap value. Pat > From davidkcollins2 at gmail.com Sun Sep 29 09:48:21 2019 From: davidkcollins2 at gmail.com (David Collins) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 00:48:21 +1000 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ?3000-L? ? Is that another group? > On 29 Sep 2019, at 9:27 am, Stan Sieler via cctalk wrote: > > ?Lee writes: > >> This is a *very* nice entry-level HP3000/MPE system based on PA-RISC >> architecture. But one note - the 917 had the soldered TOD battery on the >> motherboard, vs. the FRU TOD battery in the later 918. Not a reason to skip >> if you are interested in this machine. > > > True, there's been some discussion of that over on HP3000-L. > > IIRC, it's still possible to boot even if the battery is dead ... > boot to the ISL> prompt, run clkutil, set the date, then exit to ISL>, > then run 'START'. > > Stan From bear at typewritten.org Sun Sep 29 09:13:19 2019 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 07:13:19 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2019, at 4:26 PM, Stan Sieler via cctech wrote: > IIRC, it's still possible to boot even if the battery is dead ... > boot to the ISL> prompt, run clkutil, set the date, then exit to ISL>, > then run 'START'. It wasn't in my case. I had to replace the DS1287. http://www.typewritten.org/Projects/HP/3235a23957.html#7 ok bear. -- until further notice From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Sep 29 17:15:17 2019 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 15:15:17 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 29, 2019, at 7:48, David Collins wrote: > ?3000-L? ? Is that another group? Different from this one. HP3000-L at RAVEN.UTC.EDU, emphasis on the ?3000-L? part. LISTSERV Web page with desciption and archives at . Has been around longer than the archives show, I think I?ve been subscribed from one address or another since the early 1990s. -Frank McConnell From davidkcollins2 at gmail.com Sun Sep 29 17:51:22 2019 From: davidkcollins2 at gmail.com (David Collins) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 08:51:22 +1000 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 08:15, Frank McConnell wrote: > On Sep 29, 2019, at 7:48, David Collins wrote: > > ?3000-L? ? Is that another group? > > Different from this one. HP3000-L at RAVEN.UTC.EDU, emphasis on the > ?3000-L? part. > > LISTSERV Web page with desciption and archives at < > https://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A0=HP3000-L>. Has been around > longer than the archives show, I think I?ve been subscribed from one > address or another since the early 1990s. > > -Frank McConnell > > From sieler at allegro.com Sun Sep 29 18:04:25 2019 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 16:04:25 -0700 Subject: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HP3000-L is a mailing list for people using, or interested in, the HP 3000 computer from Hewlett-Packard. Created when it was still on sale, now, it's an antique ... but there are a lot of them out there being used by various companies. One company I know has over one THOUSAND users log on every day. At one point, HP3000-L and comp.sys.hp.mpe were mirrors of each other, but I suspect the link between the two is long gone. If you want to look at posts to it, or subscribe, or search it: https://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A0=HP3000-L There are about 340+ subscribers. Note: HP3000-L may be going away in the near-medium future, probably to be replaced by a google group. (The site hosting hundreds of mailing lists is moving to a new server, new listserv program, and is trying to cull lists that no longer have a connection with their university, and HP3000-L falls into that category.) Stan On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 7:48 AM David Collins wrote: > ?3000-L? ? Is that another group? > > > > > On 29 Sep 2019, at 9:27 am, Stan Sieler via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > ?Lee writes: > > > >> This is a *very* nice entry-level HP3000/MPE system based on PA-RISC > >> architecture. But one note - the 917 had the soldered TOD battery on the > >> motherboard, vs. the FRU TOD battery in the later 918. Not a reason to > skip > >> if you are interested in this machine. > > > > > > True, there's been some discussion of that over on HP3000-L. > > > > IIRC, it's still possible to boot even if the battery is dead ... > > boot to the ISL> prompt, run clkutil, set the date, then exit to ISL>, > > then run 'START'. > > > > Stan > From guykd at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 29 21:32:59 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 12:32:59 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap - WON In-Reply-To: <529507ff-3043-8e58-a276-a10af6a0e1fe@charter.net> References: <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190930123259.01176b40@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 10:03 PM 27/09/2019 -0500, JRJ wrote: >Thanks for the tip. (Part of not recognizing that is that I had never >made the connection between the 2108B/2112B and the "1000" series >before, until I read about it in this thread, and did some poking >around. The HP's have not been one of my priorities in over a couple of >decades, and most of of that focus was on my older HP2114B.) > >JRJ That's always mystified me too. "1000 series" for model numbers like 2108B, 2112B, 2113E, etc. Weird corporate thinking. Maybe too much printed material with "1000" on to change? Or some other company had trademarked "2000 series" ? Anyway... I WON THE AUCTION. For US$306. Considering there are at least 12 of those DtoA cards, and apparently piles of HP 1000 boards besides the serial IO ones, it's not too bad. But I have to admit my max price was partly motivated by anti-gold-scrapper spite. My god those guys are dumb. Engaging in an incremental bidding war on ebay demonstrates a major mental deficit, given that there are more rational and effective avenues available. Game theory? Obviously they have never heard of it. >From their bid histories, others bidding up this lot (apart from Cindy) were solely interested in the gold. I'm sticking to my view, that anyone engaged in routinely crushing antique computer boards for their gold content, is both amoral and stupid. So their retarded ebay bidding habits are no surprise. Bulk contemporary e-waste, like piles of dead cell phones, sure, go for it. But failing to recognise that boards from the 70s through 80s are now increasingly rare historical relics, is just inexcusable. Maybe would have been cheaper if this group hadn't put on so many item watchers, but that's life. If anyone is interested in what it's like to work with a bidsnipe service, I took screenshots. Now, for disposition... Zipped set of the 12 listing photos is here: http://everist.org/pics/pcbs/pics.zip 3.6MB I have notes of who already wants some boards. Anyone else who can identify specific boards and/or something they'd like, please email me. I really want to get all the boards identified, before onshipping them. Some might become giveaways or ebay fodder. Worst case I'll have to send them to my reshipper in LA, CA. I don't yet know if my reshipper is capable/willing to handle selecting boards and sending them to various destinations. And what they'd charge. I'll be asking them. Fingers crossed. If not, they'll all just have to come to me in Oz. But they can sit at the reshipper for months if that's useful. Maybe an alternative is for them to go to Cindy, to hold while we work out what they are and who wants some? Cindy, would you be willing to do that? Others would have to pay you for postage (+time), and me for whatever price is agreed on for the boards they want. I'm not greedy and don't expect to make a profit. Alternatively, is there anyone on the US East coast who wants to play hold and reship? Please be quick, I won't be able to hold them up at the seller's for long. I'm busy the rest of today, will start dealing with this tomorrow. Don't actually have enough cash to pay for this atm, but will by Wed/Thur. ie 2 to 3 days from now. Guy From sales at elecplus.com Sun Sep 29 23:25:44 2019 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:25:44 -0500 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap - WON In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190930123259.01176b40@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> <3.0.6.32.20190930123259.01176b40@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <00d401d57747$212bf550$6383dff0$@com> Sure, they can come here and sit in the warehouse for no more than a month. I will identify the boards and ship to the appropriate addresses. Please note that orders shipped to the EU or Russia or Australia become cheaper in larger batches. I usually ship keyboards, and in this scenario, 1 keyboard costs at least $75 to ship to the EU, but 6 keyboards costs about $120. Happy to help the community! Guy, don't forget to ask him for an adjusted invoice to include ESD and proper padding. I believe he said this was $100? Cindy -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy via cctalk Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2019 9:33 PM To: Jay Jaeger; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap - WON At 10:03 PM 27/09/2019 -0500, JRJ wrote: >Thanks for the tip. (Part of not recognizing that is that I had never >made the connection between the 2108B/2112B and the "1000" series >before, until I read about it in this thread, and did some poking >around. The HP's have not been one of my priorities in over a couple of >decades, and most of of that focus was on my older HP2114B.) > >JRJ That's always mystified me too. "1000 series" for model numbers like 2108B, 2112B, 2113E, etc. Weird corporate thinking. Maybe too much printed material with "1000" on to change? Or some other company had trademarked "2000 series" ? Anyway... I WON THE AUCTION. For US$306. Considering there are at least 12 of those DtoA cards, and apparently piles of HP 1000 boards besides the serial IO ones, it's not too bad. But I have to admit my max price was partly motivated by anti-gold-scrapper spite. My god those guys are dumb. Engaging in an incremental bidding war on ebay demonstrates a major mental deficit, given that there are more rational and effective avenues available. Game theory? Obviously they have never heard of it. >From their bid histories, others bidding up this lot (apart from Cindy) were solely interested in the gold. I'm sticking to my view, that anyone engaged in routinely crushing antique computer boards for their gold content, is both amoral and stupid. So their retarded ebay bidding habits are no surprise. Bulk contemporary e-waste, like piles of dead cell phones, sure, go for it. But failing to recognise that boards from the 70s through 80s are now increasingly rare historical relics, is just inexcusable. Maybe would have been cheaper if this group hadn't put on so many item watchers, but that's life. If anyone is interested in what it's like to work with a bidsnipe service, I took screenshots. Now, for disposition... Zipped set of the 12 listing photos is here: http://everist.org/pics/pcbs/pics.zip 3.6MB I have notes of who already wants some boards. Anyone else who can identify specific boards and/or something they'd like, please email me. I really want to get all the boards identified, before onshipping them. Some might become giveaways or ebay fodder. Worst case I'll have to send them to my reshipper in LA, CA. I don't yet know if my reshipper is capable/willing to handle selecting boards and sending them to various destinations. And what they'd charge. I'll be asking them. Fingers crossed. If not, they'll all just have to come to me in Oz. But they can sit at the reshipper for months if that's useful. Maybe an alternative is for them to go to Cindy, to hold while we work out what they are and who wants some? Cindy, would you be willing to do that? Others would have to pay you for postage (+time), and me for whatever price is agreed on for the boards they want. I'm not greedy and don't expect to make a profit. Alternatively, is there anyone on the US East coast who wants to play hold and reship? Please be quick, I won't be able to hold them up at the seller's for long. I'm busy the rest of today, will start dealing with this tomorrow. Don't actually have enough cash to pay for this atm, but will by Wed/Thur. ie 2 to 3 days from now. Guy --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From guykd at optusnet.com.au Sun Sep 29 23:27:33 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 14:27:33 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap - WON In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190930123259.01176b40@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <529507ff-3043-8e58-a276-a10af6a0e1fe@charter.net> <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20190930142733.00e4fcc0@mail.optusnet.com.au> Developments! I asked: >Alternatively, is there anyone on the US East coast who wants to play hold and reship? Dan Veeneman in Maryland has volunteered. Thank you Dan! His web site: http://decodesystems.com is pretty cool, check it out. Assuming I can get the seller to ship the boards to Dan, what will happen is this: For each type of board, we'll have: - A good hi-res photo of one. - Note of any identifying numbers, version, etc. - Count of how many there are. - Notes of any individual damage, removed ICs, etc. - What we know of what they _are_, as this is discovered. These will go up on my site at http://everist.org/pics/pcbs Auction pics are there now. If you recognize any boards, please say so! Discussion about identifying boards, and who wants what, prices, etc, should be offlist via me: guykd at optusnet.com.au I don't expect to make a profit, just alleviate the cost somewhat. As boards are assigned, you can discuss postage cost and details with Dan. I'll give buyers his contact details, if you don't already have them from cctalk. Then people can arrange shipping details and post costs with him. He likely will want something for his efforts; that remains to be determined. He'll probably make some announcement about that, as it becomes clear what kind of effort will be involved. Guy From silent700 at gmail.com Sun Sep 29 23:46:03 2019 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:46:03 -0500 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers Message-ID: Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. -j From joe at barrera.org Mon Sep 30 01:02:44 2019 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:02:44 -0700 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not obscure at all, at least not to me. I worked for Jim Gray circa 1996 - 1999 and he worked for Tandem during the NonStop era which informed his knowledge of fault-tolerance that helped him advise the Windows NT Clustering team. Don't toss it!!! If you can't find On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 9:46 PM Jason T via cctalk wrote: > Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep > finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along > with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 > > There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about > it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. > > -j > From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Sep 30 01:09:19 2019 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:09:19 -0700 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap - WON In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20190930123259.01176b40@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <049001d57328$c70ad680$55208380$@com> <3.0.6.32.20190925155655.012f03b8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <3.0.6.32.20190925200706.01168ac8@mail.optusnet.com.au> <5b203ce3-dec0-41de-2d89-87288c604b8f@charter.net> <003b01d57516$be7003c0$3b500b40$@gmail.com> <3.0.6.32.20190930123259.01176b40@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <033C27D4-F09B-40D5-A356-06EBA8C5E8A4@reanimators.org> On Sep 29, 2019, at 19:32, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > > At 10:03 PM 27/09/2019 -0500, JRJ wrote: >> Thanks for the tip. (Part of not recognizing that is that I had never >> made the connection between the 2108B/2112B and the "1000" series >> before, until I read about it in this thread, and did some poking >> around. The HP's have not been one of my priorities in over a couple of >> decades, and most of of that focus was on my older HP2114B.) >> >> JRJ > > That's always mystified me too. "1000 series" for model numbers like 2108B, 2112B, 2113E, etc. > Weird corporate thinking. Maybe too much printed material with "1000" on to change? > Or some other company had trademarked "2000 series? ? ?2000? was occupied by the timeshared BASIC system product line. -Frank McConnell From rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com Mon Sep 30 01:40:55 2019 From: rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com (Rod Smallwood) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 07:40:55 +0100 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Their UK office was on the lower floor of a building I used to visit in High Wycombe circa 1980 Rod On 30/09/2019 07:02, Joseph S. Barrera III via cctalk wrote: > Not obscure at all, at least not to me. I worked for Jim Gray circa 1996 - > 1999 and he worked for Tandem during the NonStop era which informed his > knowledge of fault-tolerance that helped him advise the Windows NT > Clustering team. > > Don't toss it!!! If you can't find > > On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 9:46 PM Jason T via cctalk > wrote: > >> Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep >> finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along >> with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: >> >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 >> >> There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about >> it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. >> >> -j >> -- From mattislind at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 01:44:44 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 08:44:44 +0200 Subject: IBM 5110 transformer? Message-ID: A friend of mine is trying to repair a IBM 5110. He is convinced that the transformer is bad. Anyone knows the spec of the transformer? Someone that has a spare? Looking into the tech documentation tell me that the machine requires +/- 5V and +/- 12 V and also +8.5V A very rough guesstimate based on the number of wires from the PSU to the backplane would give 20A 5V, 4A +12V, 4A +8.5V, 1A -5V and 1A -12V. Anyone with a better guess? /Mattis From dkelvey at hotmail.com Mon Sep 30 08:37:43 2019 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 13:37:43 +0000 Subject: IBM 5110 transformer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is it a switcher or an AC? A custom transformer is going to be quite expensive. About the only way is to cannibalize another machine. Dwight ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Mattis Lind via cctalk Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2019 11:44 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: IBM 5110 transformer? A friend of mine is trying to repair a IBM 5110. He is convinced that the transformer is bad. Anyone knows the spec of the transformer? Someone that has a spare? Looking into the tech documentation tell me that the machine requires +/- 5V and +/- 12 V and also +8.5V A very rough guesstimate based on the number of wires from the PSU to the backplane would give 20A 5V, 4A +12V, 4A +8.5V, 1A -5V and 1A -12V. Anyone with a better guess? /Mattis From mattislind at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 09:08:51 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:08:51 +0200 Subject: IBM 5110 transformer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Den m?n 30 sep. 2019 kl 15:37 skrev dwight : > Is it a switcher or an AC? > Good old transfomer. He could probably find something suitable if the specs were known. Or replace it with switchers at least for testing the machine. But still it would be great to know the specs. > A custom transformer is going to be quite expensive. About the only way is > to cannibalize another machine. > Dwight > /Mattis > > ------------------------------ > *From:* cctalk on behalf of Mattis Lind > via cctalk > *Sent:* Sunday, September 29, 2019 11:44 PM > *To:* General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > *Subject:* IBM 5110 transformer? > > A friend of mine is trying to repair a IBM 5110. He is convinced that the > transformer is bad. > > Anyone knows the spec of the transformer? > > Someone that has a spare? > > Looking into the tech documentation tell me that the machine requires +/- > 5V and +/- 12 V and also +8.5V > > A very rough guesstimate based on the number of wires from the PSU to the > backplane would give 20A 5V, 4A +12V, 4A +8.5V, 1A -5V and 1A -12V. > > Anyone with a better guess? > > /Mattis > From phb.hfx at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 09:46:17 2019 From: phb.hfx at gmail.com (Paul Berger) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:46:17 -0300 Subject: IBM 5110 transformer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <300e7b78-4317-415f-38b5-51175e72c276@gmail.com> On 2019-09-30 3:44 a.m., Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > A friend of mine is trying to repair a IBM 5110. He is convinced that the > transformer is bad. > > Anyone knows the spec of the transformer? > > Someone that has a spare? > > Looking into the tech documentation tell me that the machine requires +/- > 5V and +/- 12 V and also +8.5V > > A very rough guesstimate based on the number of wires from the PSU to the > backplane would give 20A 5V, 4A +12V, 4A +8.5V, 1A -5V and 1A -12V. > > Anyone with a better guess? > > /Mattis Does this transformer has a resonant capacitor on it?? They where very common on IBM power supplies from that time period and if the capacitor goes short you will not get any output from the transformer.? This is a lesson I learned as a green service rep 40 years ago after lugging in a very heavy transformer for a machine. Paul. From mattislind at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 10:36:02 2019 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 17:36:02 +0200 Subject: IBM 5110 transformer? In-Reply-To: <300e7b78-4317-415f-38b5-51175e72c276@gmail.com> References: <300e7b78-4317-415f-38b5-51175e72c276@gmail.com> Message-ID: Really good point. Thanks! I will check with my friend. /Mattis Den m?n 30 sep. 2019 kl 16:46 skrev Paul Berger via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > > On 2019-09-30 3:44 a.m., Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > A friend of mine is trying to repair a IBM 5110. He is convinced that the > > transformer is bad. > > > > Anyone knows the spec of the transformer? > > > > Someone that has a spare? > > > > Looking into the tech documentation tell me that the machine requires +/- > > 5V and +/- 12 V and also +8.5V > > > > A very rough guesstimate based on the number of wires from the PSU to the > > backplane would give 20A 5V, 4A +12V, 4A +8.5V, 1A -5V and 1A -12V. > > > > Anyone with a better guess? > > > > /Mattis > > Does this transformer has a resonant capacitor on it? They where very > common on IBM power supplies from that time period and if the capacitor > goes short you will not get any output from the transformer. This is a > lesson I learned as a green service rep 40 years ago after lugging in a > very heavy transformer for a machine. > > Paul. > > From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Sep 30 10:57:25 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:57:25 -0500 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> On 09/29/2019 11:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep > finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along > with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 > > There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about > it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. > > -j > Tandem was hot stuff back in the 1980's. These appear to be the last gasp of their technology. Once you had fast networking between processors, the whole Tandem concept became pretty easy to do on a few ordinary processors, without special hardware. So, their whole reason for being became moot. Jon From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Mon Sep 30 11:22:46 2019 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:22:46 +0200 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: s?n 2019-09-29 klockan 23:46 -0500 skrev Jason T via cctalk: > Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep > finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along > with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 > > There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about > it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. > > -j Where in the world ? did you have the passwords and so on so you didn't need to crack it (which i hope is NOT easy.) From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Mon Sep 30 11:25:14 2019 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:25:14 -0600 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/29/19 10:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about it". > I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. I think HP(E) acquired (what as left of) Tandem. I think that HP(E) still sells and supports NonStop equipment today. I'm guessing that NonStop is about as common as IBM mainframes. Maybe slightly less so. Common? No. So obscure that no one knows / cars about it? Nope. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From db at db.net Mon Sep 30 11:27:10 2019 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 12:27:10 -0400 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> References: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <20190930162710.GB72080@night.db.net> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:57:25AM -0500, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 09/29/2019 11:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > > Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep > > finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along > > with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: > > > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 > > > > There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about > > it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. > > > > -j > > > Tandem was hot stuff back in the 1980's. These appear to be > the last gasp of their technology. I remember hearing that the credit/debit card database we were talking to was a Royal Bank Tandem in Toronto when I was first involved with Point of Sale protocols. > Once you had fast networking between processors, the whole > Tandem concept became pretty easy to do on a few ordinary > processors, without special hardware. So, their whole > reason for being became moot. Indeed. > > Jon Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From phb.hfx at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 11:39:01 2019 From: phb.hfx at gmail.com (Paul Berger) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 13:39:01 -0300 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: <20190930162710.GB72080@night.db.net> References: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> <20190930162710.GB72080@night.db.net> Message-ID: <9ca95d8c-42ca-b7f6-c7d5-d5f4bac0c8aa@gmail.com> On 2019-09-30 1:27 p.m., Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:57:25AM -0500, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: >> On 09/29/2019 11:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: >>> Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep >>> finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along >>> with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: >>> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 >>> >>> There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about >>> it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. >>> >>> -j >>> >> Tandem was hot stuff back in the 1980's. These appear to be >> the last gasp of their technology. > I remember hearing that the credit/debit card database we were talking > to was a Royal Bank Tandem in Toronto when I was first involved > with Point of Sale protocols. All of the Canadian banks used Tandem systems to front end the Interact it was part of the initial plan for that system. Paul. > >> Once you had fast networking between processors, the whole >> Tandem concept became pretty easy to do on a few ordinary >> processors, without special hardware. So, their whole >> reason for being became moot. > Indeed. Yes I suspect anything that HP may flog as nonstop these days would be a high availability cluster which would probably include shared storage.? SAN has made shared storage trivial and even allows you to spread the nodes in the cluster geographically. When I first encountered HA cluster the shared storage was parallel SCSI with an initiator in each system.? The first that aloowed you to spread the nodes enough to have them in different building used IBM's SSA, a predecessor of SAN, to connect the storage. >> Jon > Diane Paul. From cclist at sydex.com Mon Sep 30 11:44:50 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:44:50 -0700 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> References: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: On 9/30/19 8:57 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 09/29/2019 11:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: >> Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep >> finding me.? So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along >> with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: >> >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 >> >> There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about >> it".? I've had those before.? Do I have another?? It sure is heavy. >> >> -j >> > Tandem was hot stuff back in the 1980's.? These appear to be the last > gasp of their technology. > Once you had fast networking between processors, the whole Tandem > concept became pretty easy to do on a few ordinary processors, without > special hardware.? So, their whole reason for being became moot. Jimmy Treybig was a master marketeer. I recall that when his offerings debuted, he equip a guest with a pair of diagonal cutters and instruct them to pick a wire, any wire and cut it. The system would just keep running. The old OnSale auction site that featured some really good deals back in the 1990s was powered by Tandem. https://web.archive.org/web/19980212000633/http://www.onsale.com:80/ --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Mon Sep 30 13:24:05 2019 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:24:05 -0700 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <74e60285-4673-c8c4-6455-11252f6f827f@sydex.com> On 9/30/19 10:44 AM, Wayne S wrote: > SII ( system integrators inc, not System Industries Inc) produced a big system for Newspaper editing. Could be over 3000 seats. It used Coyote terminals. IIRC, i think it ran the Guardian operating system. > At the time, I wondered if the name had been swiped from "The Forbin Project" film. --Chuck From derschjo at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 13:50:11 2019 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:50:11 -0700 Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned Message-ID: Thought someone here might find this interesting; I have a binder of materials describing the entire course (descriptions of the PDP-11/45 DELPHI system, readings, coursework, quizzes, exams (with answers)) for MIT 6.031 "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Languages", 1974. http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/scans/mit/MIT%206.031%20Structure%20And%20Interpretation%20Of%20Computer%20Languages%201974.pdf It starts with PDP-11 assembly language, moves on to Algol and LISP and is over a thousand pages of material. Get studying! - Josh From jwsmail at jwsss.com Mon Sep 30 15:07:49 2019 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 13:07:49 -0700 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: <9ca95d8c-42ca-b7f6-c7d5-d5f4bac0c8aa@gmail.com> References: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com> <20190930162710.GB72080@night.db.net> <9ca95d8c-42ca-b7f6-c7d5-d5f4bac0c8aa@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/30/2019 9:39 AM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > > On 2019-09-30 1:27 p.m., Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:57:25AM -0500, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: >>> On 09/29/2019 11:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: >>>> Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep >>>> finding me.? So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along >>>> with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: >>>> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 >>>> >>>> There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about >>>> it".? I've had those before.? Do I have another?? It sure is heavy. >>>> >>>> -j >>>> >>> Tandem was hot stuff back in the 1980's.? These appear to be >>> the last gasp of their technology. >> I remember hearing that the credit/debit card database we were talking >> to was a Royal Bank Tandem in Toronto when I was first involved >> with Point of Sale protocols. > > All of the Canadian banks used Tandem systems to front end the > Interact it was part of the initial plan for that system. > > Paul. > >> >>> Once you had fast networking between processors, the whole >>> Tandem concept became pretty easy to do on a few ordinary >>> processors, without special hardware.? So, their whole >>> reason for being became moot. >> Indeed. > > Yes I suspect anything that HP may flog as nonstop these days would be > a high availability cluster which would probably include shared > storage.? SAN has made shared storage trivial and even allows you to > spread the nodes in the cluster geographically. When I first > encountered HA cluster the shared storage was parallel SCSI with an > initiator in each system.? The first that aloowed you to spread the > nodes enough to have them in different building used IBM's SSA, a > predecessor of SAN, to connect the storage. > > In the early 2000s, I visited the HP site which had the developers for the Tandem product, VMS HP/UX.? They were using our ICE for development of the Itanium versions of VMS and for HP/UX.? I don't think there was any plan to support the Nonstop in such a fashion, but the developers were all there @ the same Cupertino site. As to developing something to do a useful version of TAL and Nonstop w/o any specialized hardware, I don't think so.? We had a system which was used for a port of the Ultimate / Pick system to Tandem, which was eventually shutdown and abandoned, but going the other way, to run TAL in any useful manner without the checkpointing would be pretty much useless. And Stratus is still there with financial industry using it heavily. The Tandem method used a checkpointing comparison method which had to use TAL as the basic platform.? Periodically comparisons would be performed, but there was more than a little computing between comparison checkpoints.? And the voting out of a failed unit was done by hardware. Stratus used a bus version. so they could have hardware pulled and their loss was in a few microseconds.? For the realtime trader guys Stratus always won over Tandem.? but where there was no need, either platform was excellent as pointed out for recovering and continuing after a failure. Also, I don't know if Tandem had it, but Stratus had serial connections and gizmos which would allow Session protection on a terminal.? you could cut one or the other connection from your computer (required 2) and not miss a beat on a terminal.? If the terminal went black though there were not as many options. thanks Jim >>> Jon >> Diane > Paul. > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Sep 30 15:39:09 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 14:39:09 -0600 Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/30/2019 12:50 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > Thought someone here might find this interesting; I have a binder of > materials describing the entire course (descriptions of the PDP-11/45 > DELPHI system, readings, coursework, quizzes, exams (with answers)) for MIT > 6.031 "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Languages", 1974. > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/scans/mit/MIT%206.031%20Structure%20And%20Interpretation%20Of%20Computer%20Languages%201974.pdf > > > It starts with PDP-11 assembly language, moves on to Algol and LISP and is > over a thousand pages of material. Get studying! > > - Josh > A quick look, nothing is said about Algol, did you mean Assembler? what I see is interesting is that LISP is on a 11. I allways thought LISP only ran on BIGGER machines. Ben. From derschjo at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 15:43:41 2019 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 13:43:41 -0700 Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 1:39 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 9/30/2019 12:50 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > Thought someone here might find this interesting; I have a binder of > > materials describing the entire course (descriptions of the PDP-11/45 > > DELPHI system, readings, coursework, quizzes, exams (with answers)) for > MIT > > 6.031 "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Languages", 1974. > > > > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/scans/mit/MIT%206.031%20Structure%20And%20Interpretation%20Of%20Computer%20Languages%201974.pdf > > > > > > It starts with PDP-11 assembly language, moves on to Algol and LISP and > is > > over a thousand pages of material. Get studying! > > > > - Josh > > > > A quick look, nothing is said about Algol, did you mean Assembler? > what I see is interesting is that LISP is on a 11. I allways thought > LISP only ran on BIGGER machines. > Ben. > See Chapter 3, pg. 249 in the PDF. - Josh From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Mon Sep 30 16:29:09 2019 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 17:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned Message-ID: <20190930212909.466A118C08E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Josh Dersch > descriptions of the PDP-11/45 DELPHI system > ... > moves on to Algol and LISP I later became the 'owner' of that PDP-11/45 (our group at LCS traded an -11/40, which EECS wanted for their DECSystem-20, for it). That Algol and LISP were later moved to Unix V6 when the group that had done DELPHI converted to Unix. I have both - alas, the source for the Algol has been lost. :-( Noel From paulkoning at comcast.net Mon Sep 30 18:51:33 2019 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 19:51:33 -0400 Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E791DA5-5EAB-4445-896B-F3FD71C0F122@comcast.net> > On Sep 30, 2019, at 4:39 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > > A quick look, nothing is said about Algol, did you mean Assembler? > what I see is interesting is that LISP is on a 11. I allways thought > LISP only ran on BIGGER machines. > Ben. From what I heard fairly recently, some early LISP implementations were on quite small machines. One was the PDP-8 (see http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/other/) and that same page also mentions LISP for the ZEBRA -- a Dutch machine, with 33 bit words. I think another was the Electrologica X1, another Dutch machine, like the ZEBRA from 1958, with 27 bit words and a base configuration of 4k words of core memory. I may be off; if it wasn't the X1, it would be the X8, from 1968, also 27 bits but more likely to be seen with 32 k or so of memory. A lot of things can be done in small amounts of memory if you work at it, though admittedly most who have that skill probably also have white hair. :-) For example, the world's first ALGOL compiler -- a full language compiler, not a subset -- ran on an EL-X1 with 4k words of memory. And it was built by 2 people, in 6 months. Now admittedly one of those two was E.W.Dijkstra... paul From derschjo at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 19:02:48 2019 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 17:02:48 -0700 Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned In-Reply-To: <20190930212909.466A118C08E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20190930212909.466A118C08E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 2:29 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > From: Josh Dersch > > > descriptions of the PDP-11/45 DELPHI system > > ... > > moves on to Algol and LISP > > I later became the 'owner' of that PDP-11/45 (our group at LCS traded an > -11/40, which EECS wanted for their DECSystem-20, for it). > > That Algol and LISP were later moved to Unix V6 when the group that had > done > DELPHI converted to Unix. I have both - alas, the source for the Algol has > been lost. :-( > Very cool. Any idea what ultimately happened to that 11/45? Are the Algol and LISP available anywhere? Thanks! Josh > > Noel > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Sep 30 19:25:52 2019 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:25:52 -0600 Subject: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0019da84-e5b5-222e-077b-66d346fa656d@jetnet.ab.ca> On 9/30/2019 2:43 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > See Chapter 3, pg. 249 in the PDF. > > - Josh > I only read THE TABLE OF CONTENTS... I was not expecting a bunch of files all in one big PDF. I view all my PDFs on my tablet, the screen size fits better than the WIDE SCREEN CinemaScope* format of todays PC's. I'll download it and view it later. Ben. *Well heading in that direction, From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Sep 30 20:21:59 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 20:21:59 -0500 Subject: RAMTEK memory boards FTGH In-Reply-To: <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> I have 20 RAMTEK memory boards from late '80s frame buffers. They each have 20 TMS4161-20NL video RAM chips on them. The RAMTEK part # is ASSY 510857 Anyone have any interest? Jon From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Sep 30 20:45:16 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 20:45:16 -0500 Subject: Standard Engineering CAMAC crate controller with LSI-11 In-Reply-To: <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D92AFAC.5030503@pico-systems.com> I have a 3-board set, a Standar Engineering MIK-11/2, which is a controller for a CAMAC crate, with an LSI-11/2 (M7270) in it. It also has a serial port in it. I thought there was a memory that went with it, but I can't seem to find that. Anybody have any use for this? Jon From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Sep 30 20:48:19 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 20:48:19 -0500 Subject: Tek 500 pulser modules In-Reply-To: <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D92B063.5020005@pico-systems.com> I have 3 units of the Pulse Instruments PI-451A programmable pulse driver. One has a note that it is bad. These seem to be general purpose pulse generators, capable of +/- 25 V into 50 Ohms (but that is just from reading the labels on the panel.) Anybody have a use for them? If I had a 500 bin I could probably use them, but I don't. Jon From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Sep 30 21:02:06 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 21:02:06 -0500 Subject: Chabin TLC cables In-Reply-To: <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D92B39E.1050501@pico-systems.com> I have some bundles of Chabin TLC (transmission line cables) from a Memorex 3674 disk control. This is the exact same material used in IBM 360s. It has 18 signal conductors and 36 grounds. They are about 3 feet long, and I have something like 11 of them. Any interest? Jon From tdk.knight at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 21:17:39 2019 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 21:17:39 -0500 Subject: Standard Engineering CAMAC crate controller with LSI-11 In-Reply-To: <5D92AFAC.5030503@pico-systems.com> References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> <5D92AFAC.5030503@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: just a box of boards or a system missing a memoru module? On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:45 PM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > I have a 3-board set, a Standar Engineering MIK-11/2, which > is a controller for a CAMAC crate, with an LSI-11/2 (M7270) > in it. It also has a serial port in it. I thought there > was a memory that went with it, but I can't seem to find that. > > Anybody have any use for this? > > Jon > From guykd at optusnet.com.au Mon Sep 30 21:21:21 2019 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 12:21:21 +1000 Subject: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap - WON Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20191001122121.0116f0f8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Yesterday: >These will go up on my site at http://everist.org/pics/pcbs Then promptly the web hosting server goes down, since this morning of 20190930 Tue in Australia. I don't yet know why, or have any estimate of when it will come back up. Guy From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Sep 30 21:38:55 2019 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 21:38:55 -0500 Subject: Standard Engineering CAMAC crate controller with LSI-11 In-Reply-To: References: <000001d56e4f$689f74d0$39de5e70$@classiccmp.org> <5D82D6F5.9040508@pico-systems.com> <67c90f2b-ece7-5507-cde9-3c53b2de139e@sydex.com> <20190919165209.GA27189@RawFedDogs.net> <5D843EDB.5050806@pico-systems.com> <5D92AA37.9010601@pico-systems.com> <5D92AFAC.5030503@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <5D92BC3F.4070809@pico-systems.com> On 09/30/2019 09:17 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: > just a box of boards or a system missing a memoru module? > OK, if you are not familiar with it, CAMAC is a standard for data acquisition and control, that has 25-slot powered crates. At the right edge, the last 2 slots are dedicated as controller slots. This was a 3-slot set that could be used as a programmable controller for the CAMAC crate. So, it has 3 CAMAC modules, one of which has the LSI11/2 in it. But, since the LSI11/2 doesn't have memory on board, and the other boards don't seem to have any memory, it seems something is missing. I think there must have been a 4th module that communicated by a ribbon cable across the front. It may still be around here... Jon From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com Mon Sep 30 12:44:04 2019 From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 17:44:04 +0000 Subject: Tandem Minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <5D9225E5.5030400@pico-systems.com>, Message-ID: SII ( system integrators inc, not System Industries Inc) produced a big system for Newspaper editing. Could be over 3000 seats. It used Coyote terminals. IIRC, i think it ran the Guardian operating system. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 30, 2019, at 09:45, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> On 9/30/19 8:57 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: >>> On 09/29/2019 11:46 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: >>> Well I said no more computers I can't lift, but exotic systems keep >>> finding me. So today we pulled a Tandem CLX out of a basement, along >>> with a few boxes of docs, 9-track tapes and random odd and ends: >>> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/m2N7RKN3JXcmVTUC8 >>> >>> There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about >>> it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. >>> >>> -j >> Tandem was hot stuff back in the 1980's. These appear to be the last >> gasp of their technology. >> Once you had fast networking between processors, the whole Tandem >> concept became pretty easy to do on a few ordinary processors, without >> special hardware. So, their whole reason for being became moot. > > Jimmy Treybig was a master marketeer. I recall that when his offerings > debuted, he equip a guest with a pair of diagonal cutters and instruct > them to pick a wire, any wire and cut it. > > The system would just keep running. > > The old OnSale auction site that featured some really good deals back in > the 1990s was powered by Tandem. > > https://web.archive.org/web/19980212000633/http://www.onsale.com:80/ > > --Chuck > >