From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Sun Mar 1 04:38:16 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:38:16 +0000 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <49A99615.25371.5EE2FA0D@cclist.sydex.com> References: , <49A99615.25371.5EE2FA0D@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <1235903896.29232.9.camel@elric> On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 19:52 -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote: > I suspect some sort of bond between a rather thin glass lens and the > face of the CRT itself comprises the needed protection (weren't the > early RCA versions of this called "Pan-o-ply"?). Without the bond, > an imploding CRT would likely shatter the lens also. So, while this > gets rid of the "cataract", I think there's a compromise in safety. Makes sense. What about the stuff they use to "repair" cracked car windscreens? It's got much the same refractive index as glass (you can *just* see distinctive "flower shapes" if you look, around a repaired chip), and is flexible enough to move with the glass but strong enough to stick the glass and plastic sheet together. Gordon From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 08:43:42 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 06:43:42 -0800 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: eric940 at gmail.com >> This may be rhetorical, but why did they use that PVA material in the > first place, given that the solution provided in the video just places > the lens over the CRT glass with nothing but air in between? Hi It may have been to keep the loss of light to a minimum. The index of refraction of the PVA may be close to that of the glass used. This would reduce the number of effective air glass interfaces. This also improves contrast as there are less surfaces the reflex room lights. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From caveguy at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 1 09:33:14 2009 From: caveguy at sbcglobal.net (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:33:14 -0500 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200903011533.n21FXJbc003108@keith.ezwind.net> TV and Monitor CRT (Picture Tube) Information has a nice writeup. http://tinyurl.com/yl95vl aka http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/crtfaq.htm#crtchr --------- In my mis-spent youth, my friends and I use to scrap TV sets for parts and have fun "busting up the CRT's. The early B/W tubes from the 50's, before the laminated safety tubes were common, provide a good show. The safety tubes built in the 60's and later, including just about all the color tubes were often disapointing. It was amazing how much effort it too to bust out the face of a safety tube. Even a shotgun blast would only punch a hole and blow out the back of the neck. I have had 22's spider the safety lens and bounce off the inner face. The best bang was to hit an old unlaminated one on the corner of the face with the rimband removed. Now that threw some glass. You realily have no reason to remove the safety rimband it has a real purpose and works well. Today if you can find an old unlaminated B/W tube, you will discover it is worth far more in todays dollars to TV collectors and restorers than the cheep thrill of busting it up. Yet, in the mid 60's the town dump was full of them and they provided great entertainment to the nerds of the day who knew when and how to get in and be ignored at the dump. The other Bob .. now 58 and feeling a bit over the hill :) From jim at photojim.ca Sun Mar 1 10:28:39 2009 From: jim at photojim.ca (Jim MacKenzie) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:28:39 -0600 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <200902282028.n1SKSQZi024236@floodgap.com> References: <200902282028.n1SKSQZi024236@floodgap.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:28 PM Subject: Re: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant >> > I was just browsing around on UP and found >> > http://up.update.uu.se/DSK%3AHUMOR1%3BUNIX%20TEST >> > I took the test and got 0x72, "operator", not bad for being born after >> > half the things mentioned were retired :) >> >> 0xF1 "hacker" > > 0x82, "nerd" (not too bad considering my age as well) $83 for me ($ still seems right to me versus 0x :) ). Jim From lproven at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 10:54:03 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:54:03 +0000 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <575131af0903010854q14f5bcb5y1e683610249046a6@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/28 John Floren : > I was just browsing around on UP and found > http://up.update.uu.se/DSK%3AHUMOR1%3BUNIX%20TEST > I took the test and got 0x72, "operator", not bad for being born after > half the things mentioned were retired :) > > > John > -- > "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS > reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, > Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba &91 A mere Nerd. Ah well - better than I'd more than half-expected. I may be a grizzled 41, but I cut my teeth on 8-bit home micros, so no punched cards, paper tape or obscure minis for me. :?( -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat, Yahoo & Skype: liamproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From alexandre.laguejacques at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 10:56:49 2009 From: alexandre.laguejacques at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Alexandre_Lag=FCe-Jacques?=) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:56:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: (Montreal) DEC and Sun junk, Dell workstation, personal request Message-ID: Hello all, Five items for local pickup that may interest the members of the list. The first three items are basically junk and will be thrown out because I'm moving. The parts may be useful to someone. Everything is free except the last item. 1. DEC AlphaServer 1000A Fans turn but no boot. Had already asked here for advice but can't seem to fix it. May be a power supply issue but can't find a replacement at a reasonable price. Includes memory (appears good), PCI ethernet card, video card. 2. Sun GDM-1604-15 Fixed frequency colour monitor, 4xBNC input. Missing pedestal. Works but there is no vertical control and the image is slightly strechted beyond the top and bottom borders of the screen. Was given to me by a generous list member and has served me well when I need a console on a Sun. 3. DEC LK461-A2 Looks like an English (UK?) layout with a PS/2 connector. Verified PC compatible, but with a VMS layout. Missing both feet at the back. Had bought the French Canadian version on eBay and they sent this instead. Go figure. 4. Linksys EtherFast PC Card PCM100-CA No dongle! Good for old laptops (16 bit PCMCIA). 5. Dell Precision 220 - 100$ Pentium III 733 MHz (single but dual possible), 512 MB (2x256 MB) RDRAM, Matrox dual display card, 9.2 GB Ultra3 60 pin SCSI hard drive, recent Netgear wireless card with Atheros chipset (WG311T), PCI ethernet card. Worked great as a server running FreeBSD. IMHO worth the price alone for the RDRAM and the wireless card. I'll probably post more messages between now and the month of June as I sort through my stuff. ***REQUEST *** If anyone knows a source for a cheap but more modern (and working) Alpha, please drop me a line. I'd also love a VMS compatible Integrity but I'm dreaming. Or some cheap SGI kit. Thanks! - Alex From kfergason at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 11:07:50 2009 From: kfergason at gmail.com (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:07:50 -0600 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <575131af0903010854q14f5bcb5y1e683610249046a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> <575131af0903010854q14f5bcb5y1e683610249046a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78ff9a210903010907u3d91d27nd9a90708aa3b8c08@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > > A mere Nerd. Ah well - better than I'd more than half-expected. I may > be a grizzled 41, but I cut my teeth on 8-bit home micros, so no > punched cards, paper tape or obscure minis for me. :?( > > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com > Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 > AOL/AIM/iChat, Yahoo & Skype: liamproven > MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 > > $b4 Yeah, I'm 45, and just missed punch cards in college. and I'm not complaining... Kelly From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Mar 1 11:14:15 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:14:15 -0600 Subject: 5.25" drives free for shipping from austin, tx Message-ID: <49AAC267.1050205@pacbell.net> I found a box of drives that I had been given years ago and had forgotten about. All are used and pulled from working systems (TRS-80s mostly). All have black face plates. half height: TEAC FD-55FV-35-U (80 track, 720KB) Matsushita SA455 (40 trk, ds) yes I know sa455 is a shugart designation, but that is what the label says Toshiba (40 track, ds) (part of the label is missing) ... 02 REV A Mitsubishi M4854 double sided; web search says "1.2MB" Mitsubishi M4854 double sided; web search says "1.2MB" Shugart SA465 "720K 5.25 Double Sided, Quad Density" written in pencil: "OK 4-90" full height: tandon, relabeled "texas perhipherals" type unknown, but probably 40 track, ss tandon tm100-1A (ss, 40 trk, 180K), bezel says "MTI 140 / MOD III PLUS" MPI Model 52 This might be crap; there is a hand written note on the side, written in sharpie, saying "Head #1 read only" Request one, any combination, or all. Local pickup gets priority. Otherwise, if there are multiple requests for the same drive, the random number generator of a Wang 2200 will decide the winner. I reserve the right to skew the results to minimize the number of boxes I need to ship. None of these drives have protective cardboard inserts. The drives will be bubble wrapped for shipment. From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:15:45 2009 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:15:45 +0000 Subject: DEC AXP 3000/800 Parts Available (UK) Message-ID: <49AAC2C1.1060005@wickensonline.co.uk> Hi List, I have a DEC 3000/800 AXP that I've not been able to get working fully, so I'm providing the opportunity for parts before the rest goes for recycling. The box was complete, and has the following items of note: Motherboard Processor I/O board Power supply (good output rails) 3.3V VRM Module All wiring Harnesses Audio IO support board with diagnostics seven segment displays. Memory carriers (I'm keeping the memory as it's compatible with the 3000/600 I have) Fans It was complete, so anything that you might expect can be supplied. All I'm asking is the cost of postage, paid via paypal or cheque. Clearly there is an issue with the box as it stands that I've not been able to isolate, which would point to either the I/O board or the motherboard, but you might get lucky with either. Please contact me off list. Regards, Mark. From cclist at sydex.com Sun Mar 1 11:38:20 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:38:20 -0800 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <200903011533.n21FXJbc003108@keith.ezwind.net> References: , <200903011533.n21FXJbc003108@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <49AA578C.21101.61D6AD38@cclist.sydex.com> On 1 Mar 2009 at 10:33, Bob Bradlee wrote: > Yet, in the mid 60's the town dump was full of them and they provided > great entertainment to the nerds of the day who knew when and how > to get in and be ignored at the dump. We used to dispose of the old unlaminated TV CRTs by placing them in a large metal trashcan, face down, and tapping the very end of the neck with a hammer. If you were lucky, you knocked a tip off the evacuation stem and the vacuum was relieved with a long hiss. If you were unlucky, the thing imploded. But yeah, I remember the kids in the alleyways using the tubes for batting practice... Cheers, Chuck From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Mar 1 12:17:10 2009 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:17:10 -0800 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AAD126.9070000@mainecoon.com> John Floren wrote: > I was just browsing around on UP and found > http://up.update.uu.se/DSK%3AHUMOR1%3BUNIX%20TEST 0x146. I was really quite disappointed that there were no questions regarding rewiring elevators over Christmas break so they'd go to the wrong floors... -- Chris Kennedy chris at mainecoon.com AF6AP/AFA9KC http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97 PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:57:18 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 18:57:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <49A99615.25371.5EE2FA0D@cclist.sydex.com> from "Chuck Guzis" at Feb 28, 9 07:52:53 pm Message-ID: > > On 28 Feb 2009 at 19:20, eric wrote: > > > This may be rhetorical, but why did they use that PVA material in the > > first place, given that the solution provided in the video just places > > the lens over the CRT glass with nothing but air in between? > > In the beginning, many manufacturers simply placed the CRT behind a > flat sheet of safety glass (my family's 1952 RCA set was that way). > The idea was to protect the viewer if the tube were to implode (had > been known to happen). I believe that front glass screen ws some kind of laminated glass (like a car windscreen) so that it wouldn't shatter if the CRT imploded. Most modern CRTs -- including ones used in classic computers, have some kind of intenral implosion protection. Either a laminated faceplate (2 layers of glass onded together) or a tension band, or both. I say 'most' becuase there are a few that don't. In genearal electrostat 'scope tupe CRTs don't have any internal implosion protection. And the little electromagnetic CRT used in the HP9826 doesn't either (it relies on the plastic anti-glare screen) -- this is mentioned in the HP manuals, and I've confirmed it hwen I took my 9826 apart. > > I suspect some sort of bond between a rather thin glass lens and the > face of the CRT itself comprises the needed protection (weren't the > early RCA versions of this called "Pan-o-ply"?). Without the bond, I've head the term 'Panoplex' relating to a CRT with some kind of internal implosion protection (i.e. one that doesn't need a safety screen in front of it). I can't remember which company used that name, though. > an imploding CRT would likely shatter the lens also. So, while this > gets rid of the "cataract", I think there's a compromise in safety. Yes, this would worry me also. Unless you know the exact reason for how the CRT was originally assembled, I would have though you shouldn't change anything. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 13:22:50 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:22:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <78ff9a210903010907u3d91d27nd9a90708aa3b8c08@mail.gmail.com> from "Kelly Fergason" at Mar 1, 9 11:07:50 am Message-ID: > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > > > > A mere Nerd. Ah well - better than I'd more than half-expected. I may 0xE4 -> Hacker... Still got a long way to go... Still, given that it was primarily a software-related test and I'm a hardware person, I guess I did better than expected.. 'Do you own a TTL handook?' No, I've got at least 5 of them different versions), I refer to one almost every day. 'Do you know how to use a voltmeter?' To measure what? Supply voltages? Determine logic levels? Estimate a mark-space ratio? (I've done all three) And so on... -tony > > be a grizzled 41, but I cut my teeth on 8-bit home micros, so no So did I, but then I found larger machines were more fun. > > punched cards, paper tape or obscure minis for me. :=AC( I've got all of those at home :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 13:34:15 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:34:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Another classic-computer 'test' Message-ID: This one did the rounds of a system I was on aout 20 years ago. Some of the questions are certainly classic-cmputer related... Enjoy.. -tony ---------------------------- ARD's Hacker Test. To remove the somewhat IBM and UNIX bias from the original Hackers test, here is one which is either non-biased, or DEC biased. Computer Usage -------------- 000000) Have you ever used a _dedicated_ computerised control system? (e.g. the syscon processor in a VCR, so having used a video would count here ) 000001) Have you ever used a computer (general-purpose programmable) 000002) ... For more than 30(8) Hours continuously 000003) Have you ever programmed a computer 000004) ...In assembler 000005) ...In machine code (binary/octal/decimal/hex/whatever) 000006) Has you use of computers ever caused you to miss an important event 000007) Do you work the hours 9-5? 000010) Are they the ones at night? Hardware -------- 000011) Have you ever built a computer 000012) Have you ever designed a computer 000013) ... 16 bit or more 000014) ... 32 bit (or more) 000015) Have you ever repaired a microcomputer 000016) Have you ever repaired a minicomputer 000017) Have you ever debugged an item of computer hardware with minimal test equipment (e.g. LED and resistor, Battery tester) 000020) Did that item contain >100 ic's, and have a logic fault 000021) Have you ever repaired a printer 000022) .... A laser printer 000023) .... A hard disk (demountable or winchester) 000024) .... A floppy disk 000025) .... A paper-tape punch/reader 000026) .... A card punch/reader Can you use : 000027) A logic probe 000030) A logic pulser 000031) A protocol analyser 000032) A manufacturer's maintenance unit (KM11 or whatever) 000033) Have you ever wire-wrapped a board or backplane 000034) .... Did it work first time? 000035) Ever found an undocumented feature in a piece of hardware? 000036) ... Did you exploit it? 000037) Did you complain when later versions/clones didn't have it? 000040) Ever written microcode? 000041) Ever reverse-engineered microcode? 000042) .... Did you find any undocumented features? 000043) .... Did you find any bugs? 000044) Ever linked 2 devices that were claimed to be incompatible 000045) ....Did it work? 000046) Have you ever voided the warranty on a piece of hardware 000047) ...Ever not (owned a piece of hardware for >30mins without voiding the warranty?) 000050) Can you wire an RS232 cable? 000051) ... And get it right first time? Operating systems ----------------- Which of the following OS's have you used: 000052) RT-11 000053) RSX (MCR) 000054) RSX (DCL) 000055) RSTS-E 000056) OS-8 000057) OS-9 000060) MS-DOS 000061) LDOS 000062) UCSD P-system 000063) Unix (Any version) 000064) VM/CMS 000065) MVS or TSO 000066) VMS 000067) TRS-DOS (any version <6.0. versions 6.0 and higher are LDOS!) 000070) CP/M 80 000071) CP/M 86 000072) CP/M 68 000073) Tripos 000074) XtalDOS 000075) XXDP+ 000076) Have you ever sysgened a Operating System (Note, the CPM sysgen program doesn't count, writing/hacking the CBIOS does) 000077) have you ever written a device driver? 000100) ... For a piece of you own-design hardware? 000101) Have you ever found an undocumented feature in an Operating system? 000102) ... Did you use it? 000103) ... Did you abuse it? Micros ------ Which of the following assemblers/machine codes do you know? 000104) 6502 000105) Z80 000106) Z8 000107) Saturn 000110) 6800 000111) 6809 000112) 8080 000113) 8085 000114) 680x0 000115) 80x86 000116) 1802 000117) SC/MP 000120) 32016 (or similar nat/semi processor) 000121) LSI-11 000122) Have you ever cracked a copy-protection scheme? 000123) .... Or created one? 000124) Have you ever created your own disk format? 000125) Have you ever read a disk for one machine on an incompatible machine 000126) ... with your own program? Calculators ------------ 000127) Do you own a programmable calculator? 000130) ... Is it RPN 000131) .....Is it RPL? 000132) Have you ever programmed a calculator in machine code? 000133) Have you ever found an undocumented command on a calculator? 000134) Have you ever logged on to a larger machine from your calculator 000135) Have you ever logged on to your calculator from a larger machine 000136) Have you ever written a significant application program for a pocket calculator 000137) Do you own a desktop calculator 000140) ... Is it mechanical (Monroematic etc)? 000141) ... Does it use core memory? 000142) Can you divide on a monroe, or similar machine? 000143) Have you ever built a peripheral device for a pocket calculator? 000144) Have you ever reverse-engineered the ROMs of a calculator? 000145) Have you ever met the designer of your calculator? Minicomputers ------------- 000146) Have you ever installed a minicomputer 000147) Have you ever upgraded/expanded a minicomputer using ready-made modules or peripherals? 000150) Have you ever annoyed the manufacturer of a minicomputer by making it out-perform the next model up in the range? 000151) Have you ever toggled in the bootstrap code for a minicomputer? 000152) ... For more than 1 type of machine? 000153) Have you ever toggled in a program for a minicomputer other than the bootstrap loader? 000154) Have you ever used a minicomputer other than one made by DEC or IBM? 000155) Have you ever mounted a disk pack? 000156) Or a magtape? 000157) Have you ever used paper tape 000160) Have you ever edited paper tape 000161) Can you read paper tape by eye? 000162) Have you ever used punched cards? 000163) Can you read punched cards by eye? 000164) Have you ever used a hand-punch (one of those with 12 keys - one for each row)? 000165) Have you ever seen/heard a disk crash? 000166) Have you ever rebuilt a crashed drive? 000167) Have you ever watched the flashing lights on a front-panel? 000170) ...for more than 1 hour? D.E.C. ------ 000171) Can you name and describe at least 4 models of PDP11? Can you identify the following (assume someone gave you a board. Could you work out what it is)? 000172) An SPC board 000173) A dual-height UNIBUS peripheral 000174) A MUD board 000175) A Q-Bus peripheral (Dual Height) 000176) A Q-bus peripheral using CD interconnect 000177) A Quad-Height Q-BUS board 000200) Can you tell an RL01 pack from an RL02 pack? 000201) ... At 20 feet? Can you expand these acronyms? 000202) SPC 000203) ODT 000204) RSX 000205) PDP 000206) PDT 000207) VAX What sort of device would your data be on if it's name was : (Ignore logical devices!) 000210) DX0: 000211) PP: 000212) DL0: 000213) DM0: 000214) CR: 000215) DD: 000216) PD: Can you identify these DEC boards? 000217) M7821 000220) M8100 000221) M7800 Can you find DCL equivalents for : 000222) PIP DM1:[*,*]*.MAC;*/LI 000223) SET /cli=tt3:dcl Can you find MCR equivalents for 000224) DEL DL3:[1,4]TEMP.TXT 000225) show queue Languages/Application software ------------------------------ Which of the following languages do you know? 000226) PL/M 000227) Lisp 000230) RPL 000231) FORTH 000232) APL 000233) ... Have you ever used an APL terminal? 000234) PL/Z 000235) Occam 000236) Postscript Which of the following have you written? 000237) Language Compiler 000240) Language Interpreter 000241) Assembler 000242) Disassembler 000243) Monitor (Rom preferably) 000244) Editor/Text processor 000245) Spreadsheet 000246) Database 000247) Data Aquisition system 000250) Real-time control system 000251) Have you ever found a bug in a commercial program? 000252) Do you never comment code? 000253) Do you prefer to find commands by disassembling the program, rather than reading the manual? 000254) Do you edit your programs by patching the Binary? 000255) Is TECO your favourite editor? General ------- There now follow a mixed lot of questions to test your knowledge of some of the obscure bits of computing and to see just how mad you are. 000256) Have you ever sent e-mail 000257) ... Internationally 000260) ... Between 2 sites in the same country, but going through a second country 000261) Do you read USEnet News? 000262) Do you post to USEnet News? 000263) Have you ever had a program of yours distributed by a mail-server? 000264) Do you prefer meeting computers to meeting people? 000265) Do you count on your fingers in Binary? 000266) Do you own a talking door? 000267) Have you ever logged on to a talking door? 000270) Do you know the ASCII code table? 000271) ... In Octal? 000272) Do you use 8" disks? 000273) ... Do you carry them in your pocket? 000274) Do you own a computer? 000275) ...more than 4? 000276) ...more than 10(8)? 000277) ...more than 40(8)? 000300) Have you ever eaten a floppy disk? 000301) ...paper tape? 000302) ...Punched cards? 000303) Do you carry a computer (or advanced pocket calculator) around with you? 000304) Do/Did you take your lecture notes on a computer? 000305) Do you know more computer phone numbers than people's phone numbers? 000306) Do you use VMS phone, Broadcast or similar to communicate with the chap sitting next to you? 000307) Have you ever transmitted software on an IR beam? 000310) Are you a member of a User Group? 000311) ...Have you founded a user group? 000312) Is your first question on meeting a person 'What computer do you use?'? 000313) Do you think that a mouse is 'a filthy creature that squeaks and spreads disease'? 000314) Do you wish your brain had an RS232 port? 000315) Do you wish that 'Caps lock' keys were remote controllable? 000316) Can you expand the expression 'FUBAR'? 000317) ...SNAFU? 000320) ...RYFM? 000321) Do you have a collection of old bits of computer? 000322) Do you have core memory? 000323) ... Delay line memory? 000324) ... Demountable hard disk? 000325) ... High-speed paper tape? 000326) Does your brain ever crash? 000327) ... Get interrupt-bound? 000330) ... Loose context? 000331) Have you ever repaired a teletype? 000332) Have you ever removed that screw in the ASR33 that causes various bits to become airborne? 000333) ...Did you get them back together again? 000334) Do you type random commands 'just to see what happens'? 000335) ... In TECO? 000336) Have you ever cut a computer in half? 000337) Did it work afterwards? 000340) Have you ever aligned a floppy disk head? 000341) ...A hard disk head? 000342) ...A print head? 000343) Do you have any line printer pictures (TTYpics)? 000344) Do you draw circuit diagrams as TTYpics? 000345) ... Do you then submit them to USEnet News? 000346) Do you know any computer jokes? 000347) Do you have to explain them to people? 000350) Do you know about (DEC) flip-chip? 000351) Have you ever used flip-chip? 000352) On what machine is 207F the opcode for HALT? 000353) Where would you use synthetic programming? 000354) Do you own the circuit diagrams of your computer? 000355) ...The Microcode source? 000356) ...The OS source? 000357) ...The diagnostic source? 000360) Have you ever found bugs in any of the above? 000361) Have you ever punched dot-matrix characters on paper tape (or cards)? 000362) ... Have you projected the image with an OHP? 000363) Have you used/do you own a vector graphics unit? 000364) If asked 'Do you want or ?' do you often reply 'Yes'? 000365) Can you write a (mathematical) routine quicker than it takes to find the documentation, and understand it, for the one in the standard library? 000366) Have you ever named your computer? 000367) In what number system does: 1+1=110 and 110+110=100? 000370) Do you ever build hardware just to get round the need of writing a program? 000371) Do you write 'Do Not fold,spindle or mutilate' on items to be sent by snail-mail 000372) Do you wish to be buried 'Face down, nine edge first'? 000373) Do you ever 'push buttons, just to see what happens'? 000374) Have you ever filled a printer with water? 000375) ... Did it work better at the end? 000376) Have you ever run a multi-user machine? 000377) Do you have a collection of computer trivia (e.g. Nutworks). Scoring. ------- Count 1 point for each yes, or question answered correctly. If your score is between: You are: 000000 and 000010 Naive User 000011 and 000040 User 000041 and 000100 Hacker 000101 and 000200 Sage 000201 and 000300 Guru 000301 and 000377 Wizard From cclist at sydex.com Sun Mar 1 13:51:41 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:51:41 -0800 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: References: <49A99615.25371.5EE2FA0D@cclist.sydex.com> from "Chuck Guzis" at Feb 28, 9 07:52:53 pm, Message-ID: <49AA76CD.31681.6250BEAB@cclist.sydex.com> On 1 Mar 2009 at 18:57, Tony Duell wrote: > I've head the term 'Panoplex' relating to a CRT with some kind of > internal implosion protection (i.e. one that doesn't need a safety screen > in front of it). I can't remember which company used that name, though. Dig out your RCA Receiving Tube handbook and look at the TV picture tube section. It looks as if "Pan-o-ply" was a laminated faceplate system used on monochrome CRTs. > Yes, this would worry me also. Unless you know the exact reason for how > the CRT was originally assembled, I would have though you shouldn't > change anything. Atmospheric pressure is about 1 Kg/cm2, so the pressure on a 27 inch CRT faceplate isn't negligible. I'd be concerned. Cheers, Chuck From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sun Mar 1 14:10:10 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:10:10 -0600 Subject: FS: joystick Message-ID: I am pretty sure it's for an Apple II or Franklin clone. says "CH" as the manufacturer and has a DIP plug on the end of the cable. $8.00 shipped in the US. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=25ssvue&s=5 thanks Charles From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Mar 1 14:25:27 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 12:25:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Interesting mix... Message-ID: This gent scratch built a Z-80 based CP/M machine and then attached an INMOS transputer chip to it: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=71349&start=0> &t=71349&start=0 g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 14:50:16 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:50:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <49AA76CD.31681.6250BEAB@cclist.sydex.com> from "Chuck Guzis" at Mar 1, 9 11:51:41 am Message-ID: > Dig out your RCA Receiving Tube handbook and look at the TV picture Alas over here Philips CRT dataooks are more common... > > Yes, this would worry me also. Unless you know the exact reason for how > > the CRT was originally assembled, I would have though you shouldn't > > change anything. > > Atmospheric pressure is about 1 Kg/cm2, so the pressure on a 27 inch > CRT faceplate isn't negligible. I'd be concerned. It's considerale even for a 12" CRT (as used in most terminals) Assuming a 4:3 screen aspect ratio, the sides and diagonal go as a 3:4:5 triangle. So the height is 3/5*12", the width 4/5*12". So the screen area is 3*12*4*12/(5*5) or 69.12 square inches. Atmospheric pressure is about 14psi. So a total force on the screen of 968 or so pounds. Since there are 2240 pounds in a ton, that['s about 0.43 of a ton. Not inconsiderable. -tony From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Mar 1 15:58:43 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:58:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Another classic-computer 'test' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <816988.76624.qm@web23403.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I didn't do so well on that one :( Just 23, which makes me a User. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Sun, 1/3/09, Tony Duell wrote: From: Tony Duell Subject: Another classic-computer 'test' To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, 1 March, 2009, 7:34 PM This one did the rounds of a system I was on aout 20 years ago. Some of the questions are certainly classic-cmputer related... Enjoy.. -tony ---------------------------- ARD's Hacker Test. To remove the somewhat IBM and UNIX bias from the original Hackers test, here is one which is either non-biased, or DEC biased. Computer Usage -------------- 000000) Have you ever used a _dedicated_ computerised control system? (e.g. the syscon processor in a VCR, so having used a video would count here ) 000001) Have you ever used a computer (general-purpose programmable) 000002) ... For more than 30(8) Hours continuously 000003) Have you ever programmed a computer 000004) ...In assembler 000005) ...In machine code (binary/octal/decimal/hex/whatever) 000006) Has you use of computers ever caused you to miss an important event 000007) Do you work the hours 9-5? 000010) Are they the ones at night? Hardware -------- 000011) Have you ever built a computer 000012) Have you ever designed a computer 000013) ... 16 bit or more 000014) ... 32 bit (or more) 000015) Have you ever repaired a microcomputer 000016) Have you ever repaired a minicomputer 000017) Have you ever debugged an item of computer hardware with minimal test equipment (e.g. LED and resistor, Battery tester) 000020) Did that item contain >100 ic's, and have a logic fault 000021) Have you ever repaired a printer 000022) .... A laser printer 000023) .... A hard disk (demountable or winchester) 000024) .... A floppy disk 000025) .... A paper-tape punch/reader 000026) .... A card punch/reader Can you use : 000027) A logic probe 000030) A logic pulser 000031) A protocol analyser 000032) A manufacturer's maintenance unit (KM11 or whatever) 000033) Have you ever wire-wrapped a board or backplane 000034) .... Did it work first time? 000035) Ever found an undocumented feature in a piece of hardware? 000036) ... Did you exploit it? 000037) Did you complain when later versions/clones didn't have it? 000040) Ever written microcode? 000041) Ever reverse-engineered microcode? 000042) .... Did you find any undocumented features? 000043) .... Did you find any bugs? 000044) Ever linked 2 devices that were claimed to be incompatible 000045) ....Did it work? 000046) Have you ever voided the warranty on a piece of hardware 000047) ...Ever not (owned a piece of hardware for >30mins without voiding the warranty?) 000050) Can you wire an RS232 cable? 000051) ... And get it right first time? Operating systems ----------------- Which of the following OS's have you used: 000052) RT-11 000053) RSX (MCR) 000054) RSX (DCL) 000055) RSTS-E 000056) OS-8 000057) OS-9 000060) MS-DOS 000061) LDOS 000062) UCSD P-system 000063) Unix (Any version) 000064) VM/CMS 000065) MVS or TSO 000066) VMS 000067) TRS-DOS (any version <6.0. versions 6.0 and higher are LDOS!) 000070) CP/M 80 000071) CP/M 86 000072) CP/M 68 000073) Tripos 000074) XtalDOS 000075) XXDP+ 000076) Have you ever sysgened a Operating System (Note, the CPM sysgen program doesn't count, writing/hacking the CBIOS does) 000077) have you ever written a device driver? 000100) ... For a piece of you own-design hardware? 000101) Have you ever found an undocumented feature in an Operating system? 000102) ... Did you use it? 000103) ... Did you abuse it? Micros ------ Which of the following assemblers/machine codes do you know? 000104) 6502 000105) Z80 000106) Z8 000107) Saturn 000110) 6800 000111) 6809 000112) 8080 000113) 8085 000114) 680x0 000115) 80x86 000116) 1802 000117) SC/MP 000120) 32016 (or similar nat/semi processor) 000121) LSI-11 000122) Have you ever cracked a copy-protection scheme? 000123) .... Or created one? 000124) Have you ever created your own disk format? 000125) Have you ever read a disk for one machine on an incompatible machine 000126) ... with your own program? Calculators ------------ 000127) Do you own a programmable calculator? 000130) ... Is it RPN 000131) .....Is it RPL? 000132) Have you ever programmed a calculator in machine code? 000133) Have you ever found an undocumented command on a calculator? 000134) Have you ever logged on to a larger machine from your calculator 000135) Have you ever logged on to your calculator from a larger machine 000136) Have you ever written a significant application program for a pocket calculator 000137) Do you own a desktop calculator 000140) ... Is it mechanical (Monroematic etc)? 000141) ... Does it use core memory? 000142) Can you divide on a monroe, or similar machine? 000143) Have you ever built a peripheral device for a pocket calculator? 000144) Have you ever reverse-engineered the ROMs of a calculator? 000145) Have you ever met the designer of your calculator? Minicomputers ------------- 000146) Have you ever installed a minicomputer 000147) Have you ever upgraded/expanded a minicomputer using ready-made modules or peripherals? 000150) Have you ever annoyed the manufacturer of a minicomputer by making it out-perform the next model up in the range? 000151) Have you ever toggled in the bootstrap code for a minicomputer? 000152) ... For more than 1 type of machine? 000153) Have you ever toggled in a program for a minicomputer other than the bootstrap loader? 000154) Have you ever used a minicomputer other than one made by DEC or IBM? 000155) Have you ever mounted a disk pack? 000156) Or a magtape? 000157) Have you ever used paper tape 000160) Have you ever edited paper tape 000161) Can you read paper tape by eye? 000162) Have you ever used punched cards? 000163) Can you read punched cards by eye? 000164) Have you ever used a hand-punch (one of those with 12 keys - one for each row)? 000165) Have you ever seen/heard a disk crash? 000166) Have you ever rebuilt a crashed drive? 000167) Have you ever watched the flashing lights on a front-panel? 000170) ...for more than 1 hour? D.E.C. ------ 000171) Can you name and describe at least 4 models of PDP11? Can you identify the following (assume someone gave you a board. Could you work out what it is)? 000172) An SPC board 000173) A dual-height UNIBUS peripheral 000174) A MUD board 000175) A Q-Bus peripheral (Dual Height) 000176) A Q-bus peripheral using CD interconnect 000177) A Quad-Height Q-BUS board 000200) Can you tell an RL01 pack from an RL02 pack? 000201) ... At 20 feet? Can you expand these acronyms? 000202) SPC 000203) ODT 000204) RSX 000205) PDP 000206) PDT 000207) VAX What sort of device would your data be on if it's name was : (Ignore logical devices!) 000210) DX0: 000211) PP: 000212) DL0: 000213) DM0: 000214) CR: 000215) DD: 000216) PD: Can you identify these DEC boards? 000217) M7821 000220) M8100 000221) M7800 Can you find DCL equivalents for : 000222) PIP DM1:[*,*]*.MAC;*/LI 000223) SET /cli=tt3:dcl Can you find MCR equivalents for 000224) DEL DL3:[1,4]TEMP.TXT 000225) show queue Languages/Application software ------------------------------ Which of the following languages do you know? 000226) PL/M 000227) Lisp 000230) RPL 000231) FORTH 000232) APL 000233) ... Have you ever used an APL terminal? 000234) PL/Z 000235) Occam 000236) Postscript Which of the following have you written? 000237) Language Compiler 000240) Language Interpreter 000241) Assembler 000242) Disassembler 000243) Monitor (Rom preferably) 000244) Editor/Text processor 000245) Spreadsheet 000246) Database 000247) Data Aquisition system 000250) Real-time control system 000251) Have you ever found a bug in a commercial program? 000252) Do you never comment code? 000253) Do you prefer to find commands by disassembling the program, rather than reading the manual? 000254) Do you edit your programs by patching the Binary? 000255) Is TECO your favourite editor? General ------- There now follow a mixed lot of questions to test your knowledge of some of the obscure bits of computing and to see just how mad you are. 000256) Have you ever sent e-mail 000257) ... Internationally 000260) ... Between 2 sites in the same country, but going through a second country 000261) Do you read USEnet News? 000262) Do you post to USEnet News? 000263) Have you ever had a program of yours distributed by a mail-server? 000264) Do you prefer meeting computers to meeting people? 000265) Do you count on your fingers in Binary? 000266) Do you own a talking door? 000267) Have you ever logged on to a talking door? 000270) Do you know the ASCII code table? 000271) ... In Octal? 000272) Do you use 8" disks? 000273) ... Do you carry them in your pocket? 000274) Do you own a computer? 000275) ...more than 4? 000276) ...more than 10(8)? 000277) ...more than 40(8)? 000300) Have you ever eaten a floppy disk? 000301) ...paper tape? 000302) ...Punched cards? 000303) Do you carry a computer (or advanced pocket calculator) around with you? 000304) Do/Did you take your lecture notes on a computer? 000305) Do you know more computer phone numbers than people's phone numbers? 000306) Do you use VMS phone, Broadcast or similar to communicate with the chap sitting next to you? 000307) Have you ever transmitted software on an IR beam? 000310) Are you a member of a User Group? 000311) ...Have you founded a user group? 000312) Is your first question on meeting a person 'What computer do you use?'? 000313) Do you think that a mouse is 'a filthy creature that squeaks and spreads disease'? 000314) Do you wish your brain had an RS232 port? 000315) Do you wish that 'Caps lock' keys were remote controllable? 000316) Can you expand the expression 'FUBAR'? 000317) ...SNAFU? 000320) ...RYFM? 000321) Do you have a collection of old bits of computer? 000322) Do you have core memory? 000323) ... Delay line memory? 000324) ... Demountable hard disk? 000325) ... High-speed paper tape? 000326) Does your brain ever crash? 000327) ... Get interrupt-bound? 000330) ... Loose context? 000331) Have you ever repaired a teletype? 000332) Have you ever removed that screw in the ASR33 that causes various bits to become airborne? 000333) ...Did you get them back together again? 000334) Do you type random commands 'just to see what happens'? 000335) ... In TECO? 000336) Have you ever cut a computer in half? 000337) Did it work afterwards? 000340) Have you ever aligned a floppy disk head? 000341) ...A hard disk head? 000342) ...A print head? 000343) Do you have any line printer pictures (TTYpics)? 000344) Do you draw circuit diagrams as TTYpics? 000345) ... Do you then submit them to USEnet News? 000346) Do you know any computer jokes? 000347) Do you have to explain them to people? 000350) Do you know about (DEC) flip-chip? 000351) Have you ever used flip-chip? 000352) On what machine is 207F the opcode for HALT? 000353) Where would you use synthetic programming? 000354) Do you own the circuit diagrams of your computer? 000355) ...The Microcode source? 000356) ...The OS source? 000357) ...The diagnostic source? 000360) Have you ever found bugs in any of the above? 000361) Have you ever punched dot-matrix characters on paper tape (or cards)? 000362) ... Have you projected the image with an OHP? 000363) Have you used/do you own a vector graphics unit? 000364) If asked 'Do you want or ?' do you often reply 'Yes'? 000365) Can you write a (mathematical) routine quicker than it takes to find the documentation, and understand it, for the one in the standard library? 000366) Have you ever named your computer? 000367) In what number system does: 1+1=110 and 110+110=100? 000370) Do you ever build hardware just to get round the need of writing a program? 000371) Do you write 'Do Not fold,spindle or mutilate' on items to be sent by snail-mail 000372) Do you wish to be buried 'Face down, nine edge first'? 000373) Do you ever 'push buttons, just to see what happens'? 000374) Have you ever filled a printer with water? 000375) ... Did it work better at the end? 000376) Have you ever run a multi-user machine? 000377) Do you have a collection of computer trivia (e.g. Nutworks). Scoring. ------- Count 1 point for each yes, or question answered correctly. If your score is between: You are: 000000 and 000010 Naive User 000011 and 000040 User 000041 and 000100 Hacker 000101 and 000200 Sage 000201 and 000300 Guru 000301 and 000377 Wizard From eric940 at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 16:51:03 2009 From: eric940 at gmail.com (eric) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:51:03 -0800 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: References: <49A99615.25371.5EE2FA0D@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: >> an imploding CRT would likely shatter the lens also. ?So, while this >> gets rid of the "cataract", I think there's a compromise in safety. > Yes, this would worry me also. Unless you know the exact reason for how > the CRT was originally assembled, I would have though you shouldn't > change anything. Hmmm... should this give me 2nd thoughts about delaminating the lens from my precious old terminal in order to rid it of said "cataracts"? Note: in reassembling it, I'd be using the procedure in the video, which doesn't include reapplication of any such PVA material -- just the lens stuck over the CRT and held on by 2-sided tape. From evan at snarc.net Sun Mar 1 18:47:03 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:47:03 -0500 Subject: Combined Retro Tech and Vintage Computer Fair In-Reply-To: <01f801c99953$6d7d3ff0$4877bfd0$@com> Message-ID: <002f01c99ad0$690155a0$0301a8c0@evan> Officially it's VCF South 1.0. Gil worded his announcement incorrectly. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gil Carrick Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:20 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Combined Retro Tech and Vintage Computer Fair The Arlington Museum of Information Technology (AMIT) is sponsoring the first annual Vintage Computer Fair Light - South From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Mar 1 18:55:33 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:55:33 -0500 Subject: UNIX for the VAXstation or AlphaStation In-Reply-To: <0KFS003VI4Z7TYHE@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KFS003VI4Z7TYHE@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <200903011955.33543.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 28 February 2009, Allison wrote: > >Subject: Re: UNIX for the VAXstation or AlphaStation > > From: "Zane H. Healy" > > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:47:24 -0800 > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > Posts" > > > >UNIX is a waste of good DEC hardware! :-) DEC never sold a UNIX > >variant that would run on a VAXstation 4000/60. I think NetBSD and > >OpenBSD will both run on it. I'll confess that OpenBSD at least > > used to rock on Alpha and can handle a machine with less RAM than > > OpenVMS expects. Your choice of OS's are a lot wider for the > > Alpha. > > DEC sold Ultrix32 (unix BSD flavor) and it was installable on most > VAXen. I have 4.2 running on a UVAX2000. I'll even admit that I got my 11/780 *specifically* to run UNIX on them.... I want to set up a "Purdue recipe" dual-VAX and run 4.3BSD on it; you can run VMS on any old VAX, Alpha, or some Itaniums... VMS on an 11/780 is a waste of a good 11/780. :) (Ok, fine, I'll admit to running VMS on my 11/780, but that was mostly to see if OpenVMS 7.x would actually run, how "quickly" it would run, and to get 4.3BSD's boot loader onto the console media.) Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 1 18:55:37 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:55:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <006c01c9992e$27470180$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> References: <006c01c9992e$27470180$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> Message-ID: <20090301165141.M23796@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, CSquared wrote: > Using those numbers, I came up with the following: > 6,291,456 bytes / 120 = 52,428.8 cards (OK, 52,429) > 52,429 * 0.0065 = 340.7885 inches or about 28.4 feet per file. > What an improvement. ;) (Is anyone else bored today?) Can the card reader for an iPod handle cards that flimsy (too many punches)? > I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer > actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. > I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers > how many columns those cards were blessed with. Sure, there are many other types of cards. Round holes, different shapes, read by a matrix of push buttons, etc. But when unqualified, "card" means "Hollerith", with IBM's PATENTED rectangular hole, read by a steel brush contacting a brass roller. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 1 18:56:45 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:56:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Halted In-Reply-To: <0KFR00FA90PUJJ4Q@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KFR00FA90PUJJ4Q@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20090301165616.C23796@shell.lmi.net> > >What would Poly Paks reject? On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, Allison wrote: > Only totally nonfunctional parts without any metals value. They sold me some of those. From evan at snarc.net Sun Mar 1 19:05:19 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:05:19 -0500 Subject: Lame Message-ID: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> I saw the following ad on Yahoo's homepage just now: http://www.snarc.net/falsealarm.jpg But as you can guess by the file name that I gave to the screen capture, it turned out to be lame -- just an advertisement for Yahoo Mail. Oh well. From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Mar 1 19:07:25 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:07:25 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? Message-ID: <49AB314D.9030502@bitsavers.org> Fanfold would be of more interest than rolls. You can still buy rolls. There hasn't been a source for fanfold in a while. Western Numerical Controls had some interest in brokering with the paper company for fanfold if the quantity was high enough. From starbase89 at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 19:08:14 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:08:14 -0500 Subject: Lame In-Reply-To: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> References: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> what the hell is that IBM monitor sitting atop of? On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote: > I saw the following ad on Yahoo's homepage just now: > http://www.snarc.net/falsealarm.jpg > > But as you can guess by the file name that I gave to the screen capture, it > turned out to be lame -- just an advertisement for Yahoo Mail. Oh well. > From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sun Mar 1 19:11:07 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:11:07 -0600 Subject: Another classic-computer 'test' In-Reply-To: <200903020056.n220upq4020158@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903020056.n220upq4020158@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 18:56:56 -0600 (CST), you wrote: >This one did the rounds of a system I was on aout 20 years ago. Some of >the questions are certainly classic-cmputer related... > >Enjoy.. I scored 000115 octal. Don't feel like a "Sage" though :) -Charles From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Mar 1 19:11:41 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:11:41 -0500 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <78ff9a210903010907u3d91d27nd9a90708aa3b8c08@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> <575131af0903010854q14f5bcb5y1e683610249046a6@mail.gmail.com> <78ff9a210903010907u3d91d27nd9a90708aa3b8c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6957.1235956301@mini> Kelly Fergason wrote: > >Yeah, I'm 45, and just missed punch cards in college. and I'm not >complaining... just missed... mmm. I still smile when i think of drum card hacking and how that was so impressive to some people. anyone who used card for any length of time could fire off a drum card. it's the same today as firing off some emacs lisp to rebind a key. cards/batch imposed a certain discipline which was useful. I don't miss cards but being forced to review your code was a good thing, imho. oddly, I still spent 2 days finding a single character bug in fortran code (on cards) and much much later, 3 weeks finding a single character bug in C (on a unix box). some things don't change. heck, the other day I found a single character bug in some C code. #define blah (1 < 3) but it was *supposed* to be (1 << 3) I got 0 when I wanted 8. but it still compiled and ran. for weeks :-( -brad From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Mar 1 19:22:40 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:22:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... Message-ID: <33497.96.252.237.183.1235956960.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> On Thu, February 26, 2009 8:42 pm, Pete Turnbull wrote: >>> UC07's are QBUS cards which have a single SCSI port and support >> >> Uh, UC07s are UNIBUS, not QBUS. I've got a UC08, the dual-SCSI port >> version of that. > > No, they're definitely QBus, as is UC08. They're both quad-height > cards, at least the ones I've come across, but I believe there was a > later dual-height version with the same designation. I don't have one > but they're listed in lots of places and I know they work in microVaxen > as well as PDP-11s. UC17 and UC18 are Unibus, I believe. This is correct; the UC17/UC18 are Unibus. I've got a UC17 here. I've never seen a UC07, but docs say it is Qbus. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Mar 1 19:31:10 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:31:10 -0500 Subject: Lame In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> References: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AB36DE.30904@atarimuseum.com> Looks like a 3270 (or possibly 5250) terminal base unit. Curt Joe Giliberti wrote: > what the hell is that IBM monitor sitting atop of? > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote: > > >> I saw the following ad on Yahoo's homepage just now: >> http://www.snarc.net/falsealarm.jpg >> >> But as you can guess by the file name that I gave to the screen capture, it >> turned out to be lame -- just an advertisement for Yahoo Mail. Oh well. >> >> > > From wdonzelli at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 19:37:48 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:37:48 -0500 Subject: Lame In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> References: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > what the hell is that IBM monitor sitting atop of? That is an IBM 3101 terminal. -- Will From wdonzelli at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 19:39:29 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:39:29 -0500 Subject: Lame In-Reply-To: <49AB36DE.30904@atarimuseum.com> References: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> <49AB36DE.30904@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > Looks like a 3270 (or possibly 5250) terminal base unit. Oops, not a 3101. The blue test switch is in the wrong location. -- Will From wdonzelli at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 19:47:15 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:47:15 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AB314D.9030502@bitsavers.org> References: <49AB314D.9030502@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: > Fanfold would be of more interest than rolls. > > You can still buy rolls. There hasn't been a source for > fanfold in a while. Western Numerical Controls had some > interest in brokering with the paper company for fanfold > if the quantity was high enough. If I ever run into a paper folder, I am going to try to get it set up for fanfold paper tape. It will probably involve lots of air turning blue and thrown objects, but once set up could fold more paper tape than I will ever need. One of the problems is that paper folders are never cheap, even on the surplus and auction market. -- Will From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Sun Mar 1 19:54:36 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 01:54:36 +0000 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <000801c999b0$3092ca30$91b85e90$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> References: <002701c993ac$ec340560$c49c1020$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <000f01c99458$e9b47340$bd1d59c0$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <000801c999b0$3092ca30$91b85e90$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1235958876.29232.25.camel@elric> On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 14:23 +0000, Robert Jarratt wrote: > Some have suggested it blew because I had insufficient load. I had a TK50 > and an RD53 attached, would that no be sufficient. Furthermore I did not > actually switch the PSU on, just connected it to the mains, would the load > connected to the PSU matter when the PSU is not actually switched on? I'd use a "modern" old hard disk, not one that's likely to be useful. Or a couple of car indicator bulbs. If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. > There was also a suggestion that the PSU would have needed switching > separately for 50Hz operation as well. The hardware manual I have for the > machine tells me how to switch between 110 and 240, but does not say > anything about switching it for frequency, so I suspect this was not an > issue here. It won't have a 50/60Hz switch, just voltage. Gordon From rtellason at verizon.net Sun Mar 1 21:11:00 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:11:00 -0500 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <1235958876.29232.25.camel@elric> References: <002701c993ac$ec340560$c49c1020$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <000801c999b0$3092ca30$91b85e90$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <1235958876.29232.25.camel@elric> Message-ID: <200903012211.00684.rtellason@verizon.net> > If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be > the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. In seeing photos of this in the process of dealing with it offlist, it looks exactly like that's what it was. When I asked about the markings on the failed parts I was told that they included "250V", which is way inadequate for UK mains voltages... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Sun Mar 1 21:36:33 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:36:33 -0800 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II References: <002701c993ac$ec340560$c49c1020$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <000801c999b0$3092ca30$91b85e90$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <1235958876.29232.25.camel@elric> <200903012211.00684.rtellason@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49AB5442.4C61D8BA@cs.ubc.ca> "Roy J. Tellason" wrote: > > > If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be > > the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. > > In seeing photos of this in the process of dealing with it offlist, it looks > exactly like that's what it was. When I asked about the markings on the > failed parts I was told that they included "250V", which is way inadequate > for UK mains voltages... That's not necessarily a flaw: 120/240 supplies often do the voltage selection by switching the circuit between bridge rectifier for 240V and voltage doubler for 120V. In the bridge config two caps end up in series, so 250V+250V=500V. From rtellason at verizon.net Sun Mar 1 21:53:12 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:53:12 -0500 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <49AB5442.4C61D8BA@cs.ubc.ca> References: <002701c993ac$ec340560$c49c1020$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <200903012211.00684.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AB5442.4C61D8BA@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <200903012253.12435.rtellason@verizon.net> On Sunday 01 March 2009 10:36:33 pm Brent Hilpert wrote: > "Roy J. Tellason" wrote: > > > If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be > > > the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. > > > > In seeing photos of this in the process of dealing with it offlist, it > > looks exactly like that's what it was. When I asked about the markings > > on the failed parts I was told that they included "250V", which is way > > inadequate for UK mains voltages... > > That's not necessarily a flaw: 120/240 supplies often do the voltage > selection by switching the circuit between bridge rectifier for 240V and > voltage doubler for 120V. In the bridge config two caps end up in series, > so 250V+250V=500V. Not if the config is the two caps being across the line, before and after the typical inductor that's also commonly a part of that filter... The series connection is usually the two _main_ filter caps, not the line ("mains") filter components. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From gstreet at indy.net Sun Mar 1 22:46:44 2009 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:46:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Antikythera fans Message-ID: <25402173.1235969204485.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi Vern and Randy, I'm also interested in the Antikythera project. I _think_ I ordered the book, "Decoding the Heavens," but I won't know until it actually arrives. Ordered it indirectly via Amazon.com, but my money was soon quickly and unceremoniously refunded. I think and hope I then found another copy via bookfinder.com. I recently received an email claiming that it has been sent. Making something like this must be pretty prohibitively expensive wouldn't it? Still, I am interested. Thanks, Robert Greenstreet Message: 1 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:39:50 -0800 (PST) From: Vernon Wright Subject: Re: Antikythera fans To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <278829.9301.qm at web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Randy, I responded quite favorably to your proposal. I'm wondering whether you got any other people really interested in the Antikythera device, and whether you are going to go on with the project. It'll probably be a couple of months before my shop is workable again; moving and all that. But I am interested. Regards, Vern Wright --- On Sat, 2/21/09, Randy Dawson wrote: > From: Randy Dawson > Subject: Antikythera fans > To: "classic computers" > Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 7:30 PM > wondering if you guys love this as much as I do. > > I would like to make a user group/club for it if there is > enough interest > > For myself, I am fully equipped here with machine > capability and stage one is to make the model (2005) as > currently known. > > Stage 2 is heck make these in volume, its a marvelous thing > and may be profitable. > > You cannot find a better classic computer than this. > > Randy Dawson From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Sun Mar 1 23:25:03 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:25:03 -0800 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II References: <002701c993ac$ec340560$c49c1020$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> <200903012211.00684.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AB5442.4C61D8BA@cs.ubc.ca> <200903012253.12435.rtellason@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49AB6DAF.F2671702@cs.ubc.ca> "Roy J. Tellason" wrote: > > On Sunday 01 March 2009 10:36:33 pm Brent Hilpert wrote: > > "Roy J. Tellason" wrote: > > > > If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be > > > > the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. > > > > > > In seeing photos of this in the process of dealing with it offlist, it > > > looks exactly like that's what it was. When I asked about the markings > > > on the failed parts I was told that they included "250V", which is way > > > inadequate for UK mains voltages... > > > > That's not necessarily a flaw: 120/240 supplies often do the voltage > > selection by switching the circuit between bridge rectifier for 240V and > > voltage doubler for 120V. In the bridge config two caps end up in series, > > so 250V+250V=500V. > > Not if the config is the two caps being across the line, before and after the > typical inductor that's also commonly a part of that filter... > > The series connection is usually the two _main_ filter caps, not the line > ("mains") filter components. OK, (you've seen the photos), I thought the ealier poster might be alluding back to the electroytics discussion, so just threw in the comment. From ak6dn at mindspring.com Sun Mar 1 23:31:29 2009 From: ak6dn at mindspring.com (Don North) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:31:29 -0800 Subject: Whatever happened to MENTEC and the PDP-11? In-Reply-To: <638EACBC22F127458865BBE72482CA2901882F@ediserver.EDICONS.local> References: <638EACBC22F127458865BBE72482CA2901882F@ediserver.EDICONS.local> Message-ID: <49AB6F31.2070902@mindspring.com> Rod Smallwood wrote: > The last I heard of them was a takeover by Calyx. in 2006 > > I can't see any reference to PDP-11 on the Calyx Website. > > So what happened ? > > > Rod > > (Renovates Old Dec) > There was a whole discussion on this last year, search the classiccmp archives from summer 2008 for references to 'mentec'. My conclusion from that discussion was that Mentec-Inc of PDP-11 fame no longer exists as a business, at least on paper, and the ownership/rights to the PDP-11 s/w have simply evaporated into the ozone. Others have maintained that they are still in contact with Mentec-Inc and are able to buy PDP-11 licenses if they so desired. Mentec's phone, email, and website have all disappeared, so I believe you either need their Stargate address or possibly an Ouija board to place an order. Sadly I have neither.... Don From June 2008 or so.... Don North wrote: > Simon Clubley wrote: >> In article <4845dc6b$0$90276$14726298 at news.sunsite.dk>, "Jerome H. >> Fine" writes: >>> >Rich Alderson wrote: >>>>> clubley at remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >>>>> Did you have any luck with that Mentec phone number that I found and >>>>> posted a few days ago ? >>>>> >>>> "Number not in service at this time. No further information is >>>> available." >>>> >> >> Rich, >> >> Thank you for checking on this. This would seem to imply that Mentec >> are no >> longer in existence. However, Jerome's comment below seems to imply that >> this may not be the case. >> >>> Jerome Fine replies: >>> >>> Thank you for the update. I have been busy with a few other things >>> and had not yet >>> tried. >>> >>> I have received some additional, but private, information in this >>> regard. If I receive a >>> reply and the information is considered public, I will post it. >>> >>> It certainly is curious that it is so difficult to send a cheque for >>> just a piece of paper. >>> >> >> The fact that you are still trying to send a cheque after receiving this >> information would seem to suggest that someone, somewhere, is still >> selling PDP-11 OS licenses. >> >> What I don't understand is why they would not just advertise that fact, >> since people obviously still want to buy from them. >> >> I do wonder if the people who do their marketing are ex-DEC >> marketing. :-) >> >> Simon. > > The state of New Hampshire lists Mentec as an 'inactive' business, for > what that is worth. See: > > https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?677452 > > > > > > From rdawson16 at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 23:53:52 2009 From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:53:52 -0600 Subject: Antikythera fans In-Reply-To: <25402173.1235969204485.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25402173.1235969204485.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Vern, Robert, I have been collecting the books for a while, see Derek De Sola Price for the original detailed description. pictures here http://markandvinny.com/derek/ There are a few animated java things on the net too if you look a bit. What I plan to do, is as best I can create the woodwork and the case, all of the mechanism and perhaps sell a few copies as mantle toys. I will prototype a bit and cad what I can in the goal of sending it out to some shops. We have a cool shared cadcam group here in portland to do this, a subscription prototype shop with all the machines. Like all embryo projects, its just and idea, but the interest you have shown spurs me on. Lets see where it goes, Thanks, Randy > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:46:44 -0500 > From: gstreet at indy.net > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Antikythera fans > > Hi Vern and Randy, > > I'm also interested in the Antikythera project. I _think_ I ordered the book, "Decoding the Heavens," but I won't know until it actually arrives. Ordered it indirectly via Amazon.com, but my money was soon quickly and unceremoniously refunded. I think and hope I then found another copy via bookfinder.com. I recently received an email claiming that it has been sent. > > Making something like this must be pretty prohibitively expensive wouldn't it? > > Still, I am interested. > > Thanks, > Robert Greenstreet > > > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:39:50 -0800 (PST) > From: Vernon Wright > Subject: Re: Antikythera fans > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <278829.9301.qm at web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Randy, > > I responded quite favorably to your proposal. I'm wondering whether you got any other people really interested in the Antikythera device, and whether you are going to go on with the project. > > It'll probably be a couple of months before my shop is workable again; moving and all that. But I am interested. > > Regards, > Vern Wright > > > --- On Sat, 2/21/09, Randy Dawson wrote: > > > From: Randy Dawson > > Subject: Antikythera fans > > To: "classic computers" > > Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 7:30 PM > > wondering if you guys love this as much as I do. > > > > I would like to make a user group/club for it if there is > > enough interest > > > > For myself, I am fully equipped here with machine > > capability and stage one is to make the model (2005) as > > currently known. > > > > Stage 2 is heck make these in volume, its a marvelous thing > > and may be profitable. > > > > You cannot find a better classic computer than this. > > > > Randy Dawson _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 2 00:00:23 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:00:23 -0800 Subject: Whatever happened to MENTEC and the PDP-11? In-Reply-To: <49AB6F31.2070902@mindspring.com> References: <638EACBC22F127458865BBE72482CA2901882F@ediserver.EDICONS.local> <49AB6F31.2070902@mindspring.com> Message-ID: At 9:31 PM -0800 3/1/09, Don North wrote: >Rod Smallwood wrote: >>The last I heard of them was a takeover by Calyx. in 2006 >> I can't see any reference to PDP-11 on the Calyx Website. >> So what happened ? >> Rod (Renovates Old Dec) > >There was a whole discussion on this last year, search the >classiccmp archives from >summer 2008 for references to 'mentec'. My conclusion from that >discussion was that >Mentec-Inc of PDP-11 fame no longer exists as a business, at least >on paper, and the >ownership/rights to the PDP-11 s/w have simply evaporated into the ozone. > >Others have maintained that they are still in contact with >Mentec-Inc and are able to >buy PDP-11 licenses if they so desired. Mentec's phone, email, and >website have all >disappeared, so I believe you either need their Stargate address or >possibly an Ouija >board to place an order. Sadly I have neither.... It is still possible to legally buy licenses. I put someone in contact with one of the people that handles licensing last week. The decision has been made to not advertise who to talk to, and I respect this decision. I don't know why this is the case, however, I tend to suspect it has something to do with some of the hobbyist community. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 00:21:11 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 07:21:11 +0100 Subject: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... In-Reply-To: <33497.96.252.237.183.1235956960.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> References: <33497.96.252.237.183.1235956960.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:22:40 -0500 > From: mcguire at neurotica.com > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > CC: > Subject: Re: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... > > On Thu, February 26, 2009 8:42 pm, Pete Turnbull wrote: >>>> UC07's are QBUS cards which have a single SCSI port and support >>> >>> Uh, UC07s are UNIBUS, not QBUS. I've got a UC08, the dual-SCSI port >>> version of that. >> >> No, they're definitely QBus, as is UC08. They're both quad-height >> cards, at least the ones I've come across, but I believe there was a >> later dual-height version with the same designation. I don't have one >> but they're listed in lots of places and I know they work in microVaxen >> as well as PDP-11s. UC17 and UC18 are Unibus, I believe. > > This is correct; the UC17/UC18 are Unibus. I've got a UC17 here. I've > never seen a UC07, but docs say it is Qbus. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > Port Charlotte, FL I have one UC07. It is a dual-height board for QBUS. I am planning to install that board in my 11/03. - Henk. From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Mar 2 00:44:39 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 01:44:39 -0500 Subject: Whatever happened to MENTEC and the PDP-11? In-Reply-To: References: <638EACBC22F127458865BBE72482CA2901882F@ediserver.EDICONS.local> <49AB6F31.2070902@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <200903020144.39356.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 02 March 2009, Zane H. Healy wrote: > It is still possible to legally buy licenses. I put someone in > contact with one of the people that handles licensing last week. The > decision has been made to not advertise who to talk to, and I respect > this decision. I don't know why this is the case, however, I tend to > suspect it has something to do with some of the hobbyist community. So, does this mean that Mentec still exists? Or, is there some other entity that now handles licensing? And, if it's no longer Mentec, is there some legal paper trail that proves they bought the rights to license it? I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to minimize their chance at selling anything (especially something like a license, which has minimal cost) in this economy. Then again, there's lots of people that do things that don't make sense to me. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From RMeenaks at olf.com Sun Mar 1 22:30:04 2009 From: RMeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:30:04 -0500 Subject: Anyone have this article from Creative Computing? Message-ID: @article{Stineman, author = "Russell W. Stineman ", title = "A Consistently Well Behaved Method of Interpolation", journal = "Creative Computing", year = 1980, volume = 6, number = 7, pages = "54-57" } From jlobocki at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 23:12:47 2009 From: jlobocki at gmail.com (joe lobocki) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:12:47 -0600 Subject: Heat Failures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: well, answer is...yes and no. the part you are replacing with may be sensitive to heat, or have the same defects that the original part had. the system itself, (think XBOX 360) may have been poorly designed for cooling and heat transfer, so cleaning and replacing a part may do little to fix the system. but if you can get creative with fans, or research the parts and options, you may be able to fix the system without little problems. hope this helps! -Joe On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:19 PM, O. Sharp wrote: > > Hey, all: > > I'm hoping for some info about older micros and heat failure. We have an > archaic system at work which is going stupid on us, and we're looking at > repair-or-replace options. > > Let's say you have a system which is locking up due to heat problems. I > suspect we've all seen that from time to time. We're talking failures where > you can cool things down and reboot and the system comes back and works > again, not failures where things are visibly melting and/or burning. :) > > Is there a "typical" mechanism by which heat causes a system to go south? > > If you get a system which is knocked out by heat, does it make it more > prone to being knocked out by heat in the future? In other words, do heat > failures make a system physically more susceptible to more such failures - > is the damage cumulative? > > Any relevant info appreciated. Thanks! > > -O.- > From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 2 01:27:35 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:27:35 -0800 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <6957.1235956301@mini> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com>, <78ff9a210903010907u3d91d27nd9a90708aa3b8c08@mail.gmail.com> , <6957.1235956301@mini> Message-ID: <49AB19E7.28413.64CE01E4@cclist.sydex.com> On 1 Mar 2009 at 20:11, Brad Parker wrote: >> #define blah (1 < 3) > > but it was *supposed* to be (1 << 3) That's why I like various variants of FORTRAN for operators: .EQ., not == .SHR. not >> .SHL. not << Much harder to create a error-free compile and have flubbed execution with those--and you could punch a program on an 024 keypunch without resorting to manual multi-punching. --Chuck From ploopster at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 01:33:04 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:33:04 -0500 Subject: FS: joystick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AB8BB0.1060700@gmail.com> Charles Morris wrote: > I am pretty sure it's for an Apple II or Franklin clone. says "CH" as > the manufacturer and has a DIP plug on the end of the cable. > > $8.00 shipped in the US. > http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=25ssvue&s=5 CH Products made a *lot* of joysticks for all manner of machine. Peace... Sridhar From ploopster at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 01:40:12 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:40:12 -0500 Subject: Lame In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> References: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AB8D5C.5070608@gmail.com> Joe Giliberti wrote: > what the hell is that IBM monitor sitting atop of? IBM 5251. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 01:42:50 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 02:42:50 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <6FB56B9FDD5B49A78CDD0BB4DD3B4BF5@andrewdesktop> References: <6FB56B9FDD5B49A78CDD0BB4DD3B4BF5@andrewdesktop> Message-ID: <9083432A-F5FD-4E91-B113-3DA093AEFB30@neurotica.com> On Feb 28, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Andrew Lynch wrote: > Hi! What are acceptable voltage supply ranges for an S-100 power > supply? I > am assuming 115VAC input. My intended application is a small home > brew > S-100 backplane. > > I have seen the S-100 voltage rails vary but I believe +15VDC, > -15VDC, and > +9VDC would be sufficient. Herb's S-100 page lists the voltages as > +18VDC, > -16VDC, and +8VDC but I have seen other voltages used. Every S-100 chassis I've seen has +/- 16VDC and +8VDC power supplies, and most of them are unregulated due to distributed regulation (7805s, 7812/7912 if needed) on each board. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From ploopster at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 01:43:44 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:43:44 -0500 Subject: Lame In-Reply-To: <49AB8D5C.5070608@gmail.com> References: <003701c99ad2$f64338a0$0301a8c0@evan> <2b1f1f550903011708v36a1514v92a03ef04e857086@mail.gmail.com> <49AB8D5C.5070608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AB8E30.904@gmail.com> Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > Joe Giliberti wrote: >> what the hell is that IBM monitor sitting atop of? > > IBM 5251. I was wrong. IBM 5257. Peace... Sridhar From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 2 01:49:31 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:49:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: FS: joystick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, Charles Morris wrote: > I am pretty sure it's for an Apple II or Franklin clone. says "CH" as > the manufacturer and has a DIP plug on the end of the cable. > > $8.00 shipped in the US. > http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=25ssvue&s=5 The Apple II series had a weird way of doing joysticks. The most common seemed to be the 9-pin female port. For some strange reason a lot of joysticks had a pigtail sticking out of the d-sub housing that plugged into a DIP socket. Last time I checked, all Apple II machines had a DIP socket for joystick/paddles. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 2 01:52:02 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:52:02 -0800 Subject: 8088 vs. 80c88 In-Reply-To: <49A6A960.5010207@hildenbrandt.com> References: <200902261200.n1QBxnYo078328@dewey.classiccmp.org>, <49A6A960.5010207@hildenbrandt.com> Message-ID: <49AB1FA2.23782.64E46F1A@cclist.sydex.com> On 26 Feb 2009 at 7:38, Les Hildenbrandt wrote: > I am sorry I am so slow here. Which is the problem? The value or the sequence? ISTR it was SP == call target address that precipitated the problem. Darn it, are you going to make me go digging through over 20 years of notes to find the thing? > The Z80 thing is an interesting point. Before I started running CP/M > on a V20, I allways ran on a 8085. I would get annoyed when cp/m > software required a z80, because it was not a z80 operating system. I > later did build a few z80 systems, a laptop and a 20mhz sbc system, > but all of the coding I did for them was 8080, except for using the 16 > bit io address features of the z80. ZCPR and some compression (ZIP-type) utilities are the ones that made me wish I had a Z80 in my system and not an 8085. I've got some NSC800 CPUs--I figure that I might be able to shoehorn one into an 8085 system with a little glue (as long as the system doesn't use RIM and SIM). Or maybe not, but it's close. > I assumed the rabbit was a z180, you learn something new every day. I > have done a few designes with z180's, but I cant even rememer what > language tools I used at this point. The Rabbit Semiconductor R2000, R3000, R4000 series (still being made) are Z80/Z180 "sort-of". Lots of "rarely used" opcodes (e.g. DAA, IN, OUT, etc.) are replaced by other instructions. See: http://www.rabbit.com/documentation/docs/manuals/Rabbit4000/Instructio nReference/ How much patching do you think it would take to get CP/M to run on an R3000? --Chuck From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 2 01:57:36 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:57:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zilog suicide Message-ID: Since it seems like Zilog is intent on committing suicide by getting rid of its engineers, does anyone have any ideas on who will acquire the ruins when it's all over? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Mar 2 02:06:27 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:06:27 -0600 Subject: books, free for cost of shipping from austin, tx Message-ID: <49AB9383.5090703@pacbell.net> I have box of books that I want to get rid of. The list starts with a bunch of Win32 API books. I collected them while I was writing my Sol-20 emulator. If I ever update the emulator again, I will rewrite it with wxWidgets, rather than messing with Win32 APIs again. If Win32 programming isn't of interest, keep scrolling down, as there are some other books that would be of more interest to the typical classiccmp'er. As usual, preference given to anyone who wants to pick it up, saving me the hassle of shipping. Preference to those willing to take more books. Windows 95 API How-To The Definitive Windwos API Problem-Solver Matthew Telles, Andrew Cook 750 pages + CD Windows Programming Annotated Archives Herb Shildt 520 pages + CD Windows 95 A Developer's Guide Jeffrey Richter Jonathan Locke 616 pages + CD Windows 95 A Programmer's Case Book Seven S. Chen 754 pages + CD Advanced Windows (Third Edition) Jeffrey Richter 1050 pages + CD Multithreading Applications in Win32 The Complete Guide to Threads Jim Beveridge Robert Wiener 368 pages + CD Windows 95 WIN32 Programming API Bible Book 1 Richard Simon 1378 pages + CD Windows NT File System Internals A Developer's Guide Building NT File System Drivers Rajeev Nagar (O'Reilly Press book) 774 pages + 3.5" floppy Programming Windows 95 The Definitive Developer's Guide to the Windows 95 API Charles Petzold, Paul Yao 1100 pages + CD Volumes 1-5 (that is all five volumes) of the Microsoft Win32 Developer's Reference Library Volume 1: User Interface Volume 2: Base Services Volume 3: Common Controls Volume 4: GDI Volume 5: Shell Each is around 750 pages Linux System Administration Vicki Stanfield, Roderick W. Smith 657 pages, (c) 2001 Elements of COBOL Programming Wilson T. Price, Jack L. Olson 375 pages, (c) 1977 Fortran IV (Second Edition) Organick/Meissner Standard Fortran WATFOR-WATFIV 293 pages, (c) 1974 BASIC (2nd Edition) Samuel L Marateck 475 pages, (c) 1982 York APL J. Morgan Smyth 100 pages?, (c) 1972 APL An Interactive Approach (Second Edition) Leonard Gilman and Allen J. Rose 378 pages, (c) 1976 Burroughs B 1000 Systems Interactive BASIC (IBASIC) Language Manual ~120 pages?, (c) 1974 Three ring binder holes, staples removed The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Dale L. Puckett, Peter Dibble 418 pages, (c) 1985 From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 2 02:20:18 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:20:18 +0100 Subject: Heat Failures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42706EB4A5244D6C85504CDD9F1C1420@xp1800> When systems get older they can get more sensitive to heat due to a process called electromigration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration When systems are a long time in use there is some displacement of chip material witch is affecting the fysical characteristics of the chip, paths are getting thinner and displaced material could cause shortcuts etc.. Another cause, could be bad connection or cold solder connections (overtime solder crystalizes and becomes a semi-conducter). Most times replacing the (over)stressed or heat sensitive parts by NOS-parts do the job, and prolongs the lifecycle of vintage equipment. -Rik > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens O. Sharp > Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2009 21:19 > Aan: cctech at classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: Heat Failures > > > Hey, all: > > I'm hoping for some info about older micros and heat failure. > We have an archaic system at work which is going stupid on > us, and we're looking at repair-or-replace options. > > Let's say you have a system which is locking up due to heat > problems. I suspect we've all seen that from time to time. > We're talking failures where you can cool things down and > reboot and the system comes back and works again, not > failures where things are visibly melting and/or burning. :) > > Is there a "typical" mechanism by which heat causes a system > to go south? > > If you get a system which is knocked out by heat, does it > make it more prone to being knocked out by heat in the > future? In other words, do heat failures make a system > physically more susceptible to more such failures - is the > damage cumulative? > > Any relevant info appreciated. Thanks! > > -O.- > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 2 02:33:54 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:33:54 +0100 Subject: UNIX for the VAXstation or AlphaStation In-Reply-To: <7d3530220902271954kaebb48etd99c9e50ea019f8a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902271954kaebb48etd99c9e50ea019f8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090302093354.dd568da7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:54:59 -0500 John Floren wrote: > So, I've got both a VAXstation 4000-60 and an AlphaStation 250 Ultrix does not support the VS4k60. Your choice is NetBSD or OpenBSD. At least NetBSD should run fine on the Alpha. But I recommend to have a look at Tru64. I used it for two years as my main desktop OS. Tru64 has a nice BSD flavor... > -NetBSD At the moment you want NetBSD-current on the VAX. There have benn some substantial bugfixes to NetBSD/VAX during the last weeks. I am not sure if they will go into the soon to be released NetBSD 5.0. Look for the latest binary snapshoot at: http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/HEAD/ > -Probably some DEC/HP UNIXes (Tru64 on the Alpha?). If you go Tru64 make sure you get as much RAM as you can... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tsw-cc at johana.com Mon Mar 2 02:43:37 2009 From: tsw-cc at johana.com (Tom Watson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 00:43:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Facit 4070 paper tape punch Message-ID: <509726.81114.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A while ago, I obtained one of these, and have successfully hooked it up to the printer port on (one of) my Linux boxen. It works quite well, and I didn't need to change any software to get it functional. The adapter is housed in a small DB-25 to DB-25 patch box goodie (with the help of a 7400 gate). No problems here (if you desire details, please contact me off list). My problem is that I don't have a proper chad box for this nice punch. It is a clear plastic box that clips over the front of the punch and holds the chad. My temporary solution is to have a plastic bag with some cable ties to the "exit port". While this "works" it isn't ideal. So, I'm looking for a chad box for one of these. Any leads would be helpful. Thanks. From evan at snarc.net Mon Mar 2 03:18:46 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:18:46 +0000 Subject: Antikythera fans In-Reply-To: References: <25402173.1235969204485.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1008332422-1235985534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1995662611-@bxe1083.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Price's work is interesting from a historical perspective, but I urge people NOT to read him if the goal is a decent replica. Marchant's new book thoroughly explains how Price's work is obsolete and wrong. Price had only part of the facts from which to start. He also made some incorrect and unethical guesses. -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dawson Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:53:52 To: classic computers Subject: RE: Antikythera fans Vern, Robert, I have been collecting the books for a while, see Derek De Sola Price for the original detailed description. pictures here http://markandvinny.com/derek/ There are a few animated java things on the net too if you look a bit. What I plan to do, is as best I can create the woodwork and the case, all of the mechanism and perhaps sell a few copies as mantle toys. I will prototype a bit and cad what I can in the goal of sending it out to some shops. We have a cool shared cadcam group here in portland to do this, a subscription prototype shop with all the machines. Like all embryo projects, its just and idea, but the interest you have shown spurs me on. Lets see where it goes, Thanks, Randy > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:46:44 -0500 > From: gstreet at indy.net > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Antikythera fans > > Hi Vern and Randy, > > I'm also interested in the Antikythera project. I_think_ I ordered the book, "Decoding the Heavens," but I won't know until it actually arrives. Ordered it indirectly via Amazon.com, but my money was soon quickly and unceremoniously refunded. I think and hope I then found another copy via bookfinder.com. I recently received an email claiming that it has been sent. > > Making something like this must be pretty prohibitively expensive wouldn't it? > > Still, I am interested. > > Thanks, > Robert Greenstreet > > > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:39:50 -0800 (PST) > From: Vernon Wright > Subject: Re: Antikythera fans > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <278829.9301.qm at web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Randy, > > I responded quite favorably to your proposal. I'm wondering whether you got any other people really interested in the Antikythera device, and whether you are going to go on with the project. > > It'll probably be a couple of months before my shop is workable again; moving and all that. But I am interested. > > Regards, > Vern Wright > > > --- On Sat, 2/21/09, Randy Dawson wrote: > > > From: Randy Dawson > > Subject: Antikythera fans > > To: "classic computers" > > Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 7:30 PM > > wondering if you guys love this as much as I do. > > > > I would like to make a user group/club for it if there is > > enough interest > > > > For myself, I am fully equipped here with machine > > capability and stage one is to make the model (2005) as > > currently known. > > > > Stage 2 is heck make these in volume, its a marvelous thing > > and may be profitable. > > > > You cannot find a better classic computer than this. > > > > Randy Dawson _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 2 03:33:33 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 01:33:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel Message-ID: Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots of lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From ploopster at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 03:57:39 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:57:39 -0500 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49ABAD93.7030903@gmail.com> David Griffith wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots of > lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? I know enough about it to know it would be hard. Peace... Sridhar From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Mar 2 04:25:04 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:25:04 +0000 Subject: Antikythera fans In-Reply-To: <1008332422-1235985534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1995662611-@bxe1083.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <25402173.1235969204485.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1008332422-1235985534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1995662611-@bxe1083.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <1235989504.29232.29.camel@elric> On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:18 +0000, Evan Koblentz wrote: > Price's work is interesting from a historical perspective, but I urge > people NOT to read him if the goal is a decent replica. Marchant's new > book thoroughly explains how Price's work is obsolete and wrong. Price > had only part of the facts from which to start. He also made some > incorrect and unethical guesses. Incorrect I can see, but how can you be "unethical" with a gearbox? Was it "two sets of records to confuse others" unethical or "running over unarmed protesters with a bulldozer" unethical? Gordon From feedle at feedle.net Mon Mar 2 08:41:28 2009 From: feedle at feedle.net (C. Sullivan) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:41:28 -0800 Subject: FS: joystick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2009, at 11:49 PM, David Griffith wrote: > The Apple II series had a weird way of doing joysticks. The most > common seemed to be the 9-pin female port. For some strange reason > a lot of joysticks had a pigtail sticking out of the d-sub housing > that plugged into a DIP socket. Last time I checked, all Apple II > machines had a DIP socket for joystick/paddles. The 9-pin female port was introduced with the Apple //e, and continued with the //c and the //gs. Models before that only had the DIP socket on the motherboard. If memory serves (I'd have to go downstairs and look) the Frankin ACE 1000/1200 also had the DIP socket. I seem to recall it was "popular" for owners of the ][+ to wire up their own version of the 9-pin female port using the remnants of an Atari joystick and/or a 9-pin female plug from Radio Hack. FWIW: the CH (aka "Hayes" early in their life, no relation to the modem manufacturer) sticks were probably the best analog joysticks made at the time. From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 2 09:37:49 2009 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:37:49 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <200903020736.n227acUN026042@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903020736.n227acUN026042@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: 8 volts and 16 volts is correct. Frankly, I would stay on LOW side (but not below 7.5 volts). MANY systems burn up boards because they are towards the high side (it was a huge issue for early SOL-20's). S-100 boards use linear regulators, and many of them pushed those WAY too hard, to the point that they got so hot they charred the board. Some notable candidates includes the Tarbell double density controller card, the IMSAI SIO2-2 card and a number of memory cards. At 9 volts, the linear regulator has to dissipate 4 volts x {whatever current}. A board like the Tarbell double density board has one regulator for the entire board, about 60 ICs including some big LSI chips (179x FDC & Intel 8257 DMA) and ONE linear regulator that gets ridiculously hot at even 8 volts. The difference between 8 volts and 9 volts is 25% and makes a HUGE difference. Barry Watzman ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:03:10 -0500 From: "Andrew Lynch" Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges To: Message-ID: <6FB56B9FDD5B49A78CDD0BB4DD3B4BF5 at andrewdesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! What are acceptable voltage supply ranges for an S-100 power supply? I am assuming 115VAC input. My intended application is a small home brew S-100 backplane. I have seen the S-100 voltage rails vary but I believe +15VDC, -15VDC, and +9VDC would be sufficient. Herb's S-100 page lists the voltages as +18VDC, -16VDC, and +8VDC but I have seen other voltages used. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 2 09:42:55 2009 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:42:55 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <200903020915.n229FLfT028300@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903020915.n229FLfT028300@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <60CF192114E84F83A31D7FE348694C23@barry> Actually, the factory fix was a "bucking transformer", a whole second power transformer installed out of phase in series with the primary power transformer so that the voltages were subtractive. There is a factory ECN on this topic. But the bridge regulator solution was common among the user base (I myself have used it) as a lot simpler and cheaper, and almost as effective. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:07:56 -0600 From: Jim Battle Subject: Re: S-100 power supply voltage ranges To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <49A96F6C.6060602 at pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Chuck Guzis wrote: > All of the S100 boards I've seen use simple linear regulators, so you > > need some headroom--but not too much. A lot of S100 7805s and LM323- > 5s were operated within an inch of their maximum current ratings (some > had bypass resistors installed) and generated a lot of heat. I > > wouldn't run the supply rails any higher than I had to. > > Cheers, > Chuck > > The Sol-20 had an app note about this problem. Apparently they shipped them for a while with transformers that were out of spec with the end result that the unregulated power ran high. The recommended fix was to take a power bridge, mount it to the case, and wire it in series with the positive voltage run in order to get a ~1.4V drop. From IanK at vulcan.com Mon Mar 2 09:55:49 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 07:55:49 -0800 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel In-Reply-To: <49ABAD93.7030903@gmail.com> References: , <49ABAD93.7030903@gmail.com> Message-ID: Since the Qbus is multiplexed, it's intrinsically harder to do blinkenlights/flippenswitches. In fact, I can't think of a single b/f Qbus machine.... If you're just looking for a "half height" box, some of the smaller Unibus machines (e.g. 11/05) was built with b/f. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sridhar Ayengar [ploopster at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:57 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: compact pdp11 and front panel David Griffith wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots of > lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? I know enough about it to know it would be hard. Peace... Sridhar From silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com Mon Mar 2 10:09:19 2009 From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com (silvercreekvalley) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:09:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? Message-ID: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi, Before I do it - I thought I should ask :) Can I use a M9302 as a UNIBUS terminator in a PDP 11/35 or 11/40. The manual mentions a M930 which I don't have, but I do have the M9302 which looks a bit more involved (has some ICs. The M9302 was from a 11/34 which is a later generation. Having said that, the 11/35 does work without the terminator - although I cant see a terminator on the system. Thanks Ian. From evan at snarc.net Mon Mar 2 10:20:01 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:20:01 +0000 Subject: Antikythera fans Message-ID: <36247914-1236010809-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-143567912-@bxe1083.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> >>> Incorrect I can see, but how can you be "unethical" with a gearbox? Marchant contends (with a bunch of evidence, not speculation) that Price made some important technical decisions that were easy and emotional, rather than professional and scientific. Price's "Gears from the Greeks" is still the most * popular * article about the device, because for a very long time it was the only article. But a large amount of new research in the past few years uses much more advanced technical imaging and includes analysis of forgotten pieces of the device to which Price never had access -- pieces that severely change the device's story. From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Mar 2 10:24:36 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:24:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: from David Griffith at "Mar 1, 9 11:57:36 pm" Message-ID: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> > Since it seems like Zilog is intent on committing suicide by getting rid > of its engineers, does anyone have any ideas on who will acquire the ruins > when it's all over? Commodore? (*) -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Justice is incidental to law and order. -- J. Edgar Hoover ----------------- (*) It was rumoured at one time that CSG was looking at buying Zilog back in the day, which would have been a weird fit with MOS. But of course I'm just being snarky. From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 2 10:32:53 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:32:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: FS: joystick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, C. Sullivan wrote: > FWIW: the CH (aka "Hayes" early in their life, no relation to the modem > manufacturer) sticks were probably the best analog joysticks made at the > time. I still love my CH Flightstick. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Mar 2 10:52:32 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:52:32 -0500 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200903021152.32316.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 02 March 2009, David Griffith wrote: > Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots > of lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? I think that the easiest way to do this (and what I would probably do) would be to put some sort of microcontroller in line with the console port, and make it use ODT to do front-panel functions. That won't get you a switches and lights register, but it'll get you most of the functionality that is available on a Unibus-11's FP. With a little bit of hardware hackery (probably not even that much, if you don't mind modifying a console SLU board to do it), you could probably even put a switch and lights register on the QBUS, along with intercepting the console port for ODT. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 2 10:54:37 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:54:37 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> Commodore? You mean Yeahronimo??? The bought the rights to Commodore and appear to be out of business. Though there was an announcement very early last year of a Commodore badged Netbook, it unfortunately was severely underpowered and overpriced, so its highly unlikely it could compete against the likes of ASUS and other Netbook leaders. Curt Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> Since it seems like Zilog is intent on committing suicide by getting rid >> of its engineers, does anyone have any ideas on who will acquire the ruins >> when it's all over? >> > > Commodore? (*) > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 11:03:26 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:03:26 -0500 Subject: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... In-Reply-To: References: <33497.96.252.237.183.1235956960.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <674F278C-7251-4BAD-A03C-B2B07E9E4F53@neurotica.com> On Mar 2, 2009, at 1:21 AM, Henk Gooijen wrote: >>>>> UC07's are QBUS cards which have a single SCSI port and support >>>> >>>> Uh, UC07s are UNIBUS, not QBUS. I've got a UC08, the dual-SCSI port >>>> version of that. >>> >>> No, they're definitely QBus, as is UC08. They're both quad-height >>> cards, at least the ones I've come across, but I believe there was a >>> later dual-height version with the same designation. I don't have >>> one >>> but they're listed in lots of places and I know they work in >>> microVaxen >>> as well as PDP-11s. UC17 and UC18 are Unibus, I believe. >> >> This is correct; the UC17/UC18 are Unibus. I've got a UC17 here. I've >> never seen a UC07, but docs say it is Qbus. >> > I have one UC07. It is a dual-height board for QBUS. > I am planning to install that board in my 11/03. Neat! The UC17 is a quad-width Unibus board that is half-populated with components, to make a single SCSI host adapter. The UC18 is the same thing, but with all component positions populated. Very odd. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 11:11:44 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:11:44 -0500 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <997089C2-0A50-4FDC-8CF2-2F882A298A88@neurotica.com> On Mar 2, 2009, at 4:33 AM, David Griffith wrote: > Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots > of lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? I don't know anything about it specifically, but just from thinking about it...I think the best you'd probably be able to do is address and data LEDs, plus RUN, and maybe a few others...not much more (i.e., no address spaces, processor states, etc) because the signals aren't brought out to the pins on the J11 chip. But if that'd be enough, you could probably do it by using some buffers to drive the LEDs, and doing DMA cycles onto the bus for the switches. I'd probably take a whack at it if I had some time. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 11:17:33 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:17:33 -0500 Subject: SGI 4D/220s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 27, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Richard wrote: > [Oops, hit send too quick] > > Just scored a couple SGI 4D/220s from a government auction site. > Anyone have any familiarity with these? Anything I should look out > for besides what's listed on various SGI web sites? (sgistuff, > obsolyte, etc.) > > Crappy auction pics: > > COOL! I had two of these at one point, around maybe 1995 or so. They are pretty heavy, but lots of fun. If you've worked with the other Iris or Personal Iris family machines, they'll feel familiar. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Mar 2 11:20:05 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:20:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> from Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum at "Mar 2, 9 11:54:37 am" Message-ID: <200903021720.n22HK5sP012928@floodgap.com> > Commodore? You mean Yeahronimo??? The bought the rights to > Commodore and appear to be out of business. Though there was an > announcement very early last year of a Commodore badged Netbook, it > unfortunately was severely underpowered and overpriced, so its highly > unlikely it could compete against the likes of ASUS and other Netbook > leaders. You didn't read my (*) at the bottom, did you? ;-) -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- I may have invented CtrlAltDel, but Microsoft made it popular. -- D. Bradley From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 11:22:43 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:22:43 -0500 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel In-Reply-To: References: , <49ABAD93.7030903@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Ian King wrote: > Since the Qbus is multiplexed, it's intrinsically harder to do > blinkenlights/flippenswitches. In fact, I can't think of a single > b/f Qbus machine.... It's a latch, man. HardER, but certainly not "hard". -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Mar 2 11:02:43 2009 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:02:43 -0600 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 67, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <200903011446.n21EkXwX011673@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903011446.n21EkXwX011673@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: At 8:46 AM -0600 3/1/09, Dan wrote: >0x105 here, damn you guys make me feel old, I'm 41 >and grew up with the old systems and move to unix later too... 0x8A, 46 years old. Sigh. Wasted years....at least I understand the scoring. -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward. From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 2 11:27:12 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:27:12 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <200903021720.n22HK5sP012928@floodgap.com> References: <200903021720.n22HK5sP012928@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <49AC16F0.4020501@atarimuseum.com> Ah!!! Sorry, missed that! :-) Curt Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> Commodore? You mean Yeahronimo??? The bought the rights to >> Commodore and appear to be out of business. Though there was an >> announcement very early last year of a Commodore badged Netbook, it >> unfortunately was severely underpowered and overpriced, so its highly >> unlikely it could compete against the likes of ASUS and other Netbook >> leaders. >> > > You didn't read my (*) at the bottom, did you? ;-) > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 11:34:54 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:34:54 -0500 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel In-Reply-To: <200903021152.32316.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200903021152.32316.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Mar 2, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots >> of lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? > > I think that the easiest way to do this (and what I would probably do) > would be to put some sort of microcontroller in line with the console > port, and make it use ODT to do front-panel functions. That won't get > you a switches and lights register, but it'll get you most of the > functionality that is available on a Unibus-11's FP. > > With a little bit of hardware hackery (probably not even that much, if > you don't mind modifying a console SLU board to do it), you could > probably even put a switch and lights register on the QBUS, along with > intercepting the console port for ODT. I think that is a REALLY good idea! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From ray at arachelian.com Mon Mar 2 11:49:04 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:49:04 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum wrote: > Commodore? You mean Yeahronimo??? The bought the rights to > Commodore and appear to be out of business. Though there was an > announcement very early last year of a Commodore badged Netbook, it > unfortunately was severely underpowered and overpriced, so its highly > unlikely it could compete against the likes of ASUS and other Netbook > leaders. So then, who has ownership of things like the Commodore 64, Vic-20, and Pet ROMs and the like? I know there's some company selling an Amiga emulator with legal kickstart ROMs, but what about the rest of the old 8-bitters? From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 2 12:08:12 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:08:12 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> Message-ID: <49AC208C.5040305@atarimuseum.com> It all folded under Commodore Gaming. www.commodoregaming.com They sell PC's with skinned cases. Looks like they are trying to compete against Dell/Alienware in the highend PC gaming market. Curt Ray Arachelian wrote: > Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum wrote: > >> Commodore? You mean Yeahronimo??? The bought the rights to >> Commodore and appear to be out of business. Though there was an >> announcement very early last year of a Commodore badged Netbook, it >> unfortunately was severely underpowered and overpriced, so its highly >> unlikely it could compete against the likes of ASUS and other Netbook >> leaders. >> > So then, who has ownership of things like the Commodore 64, Vic-20, and > Pet ROMs and the like? I know there's some company selling an Amiga > emulator with legal kickstart ROMs, but what about the rest of the old > 8-bitters? > > > From trixter at oldskool.org Mon Mar 2 12:43:45 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:43:45 -0600 Subject: Anyone have this article from Creative Computing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AC28E1.8070602@oldskool.org> Try google lately? http://rss.acs.unt.edu/Rdoc/library/stinepack/html/stinterp.html Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > @article{Stineman, > author = "Russell W. Stineman ", > title = "A Consistently Well Behaved Method of Interpolation", > journal = "Creative Computing", > year = 1980, > volume = 6, > number = 7, > pages = "54-57" > } > -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 2 13:06:20 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:06:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> Message-ID: <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote: > So then, who has ownership of things like the Commodore 64, Vic-20, and > Pet ROMs and the like? I know there's some company selling an Amiga > emulator with legal kickstart ROMs, but what about the rest of the old > 8-bitters? Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri Ellsworth? From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 2 13:12:31 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:12:31 -0500 Subject: [Spam] Re: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AC2F9F.4040206@atarimuseum.com> Unfortunately the forces of irrationalism would never allow something that makes total sense like turning Commodore over to competent hands like Geri's... It seems that (with the exception of Apple) companies wind up in the hands of incompetents who can not understand or appreciate the true importance or legacy of the company and its products, so it never seems to happen :-( Curt Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote: > >> So then, who has ownership of things like the Commodore 64, Vic-20, and >> Pet ROMs and the like? I know there's some company selling an Amiga >> emulator with legal kickstart ROMs, but what about the rest of the old >> 8-bitters? >> > > Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri Ellsworth? > > From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 13:23:04 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:23:04 +0100 Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? In-Reply-To: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:09:19 -0800 > From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? > > Hi, > > Before I do it - I thought I should ask :) Can I use a > M9302 as a UNIBUS terminator in a PDP 11/35 or 11/40. > > The manual mentions a M930 which I don't have, but I do > have the M9302 which looks a bit more involved (has > some ICs. > > The M9302 was from a 11/34 which is a later generation. > > Having said that, the 11/35 does work without the > terminator - although I cant see a terminator on > the system. > > Thanks > > Ian. Hi Ian, I checked my notes (the machines are a bit difficult to reach, I am moving in 3 weeks). In my notes, I have the M930 as terminator. The M9302 is for the 11/34, because of the SACK circuitry. Just a few weeks ago Tony wrote a good explanation on the termination subject. I don't know if you can put the M9302 in the 11/35 ... If you are in the UK (which I seem to remember, I can send you an M930 for shipping costs. If you are in the USA, I can do that too, but is more expensive, and perhaps somebody in the USA has one M930 for you. - Henk, PA8PDP (The Netherlands) From ray at arachelian.com Mon Mar 2 13:23:29 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:23:29 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com> <49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AC3231.4020500@arachelian.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote: > >> So then, who has ownership of things like the Commodore 64, Vic-20, and >> Pet ROMs and the like? I know there's some company selling an Amiga >> emulator with legal kickstart ROMs, but what about the rest of the old >> 8-bitters? >> > > Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri Ellsworth? > > Sounds good to me. Or better yet release them under the GPL or something similar (since they're binary). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 12:37:58 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:37:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <000801c999b0$3092ca30$91b85e90$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> from "Robert Jarratt" at Feb 28, 9 02:23:50 pm Message-ID: > The harness I have is not the same as either of the two that someone sent me > pictures of. It is not a ribbon cable, it has discrete wires, of different > lengths, its part number is 70-20450-01, rev C1 and there is a date of 9th > Dec 1985 on it. The actual connectors though look like the connectors on the > bad ribbon cable harness, I think they are MTA-156. AFAIK this is a side issue. While the older pawer harness can overheat _in use_, it will not cause the PSU to fail at switch-on. In other words, if you have the older harness, you should reuild/replace it, but this is not the cause of your problem/ > > Some have suggested it blew because I had insufficient load. I had a TK50 > and an RD53 attached, would that no be sufficient. Furthermore I did not As I said earlier, I'd not use thos 2 devices as dummy loads, they are simply too valuale for that. Get soem 6V and 12V car bulbs... While I beleive there are SMPSUs that fail if turned on with no/insufficient load, I've yet to meet one. I've seen supplies that trip repeatedly if given no load. I've seen supplies (including ones from DEC) where some of the outputs give far too _low_ a voltage if the main output is not suffiiently loaded. But not one that fails. > actually switch the PSU on, just connected it to the mains, would the load > connected to the PSU matter when the PSU is not actually switched on? Hang on Are you saying the rocker switch on the front was not turned on? In which case most of the PSU electronis was not powered. About the only thing that could have failed in the way you descrie are the mains input filter capacitors. Have you opened up the PSU case yet? Can you see anything obviously burnet or exploded? If so, what? > > There was also a suggestion that the PSU would have needed switching > separately for 50Hz operation as well. The hardware manual I have for the > machine tells me how to switch between 110 and 240, but does not say > anything about switching it for frequency, so I suspect this was not an > issue here. It isn;t. There is no frequency adjsutment on the BA23 PSU. > > >From the various responses I think it would be unwise for me to attempt a > repair. Is there anyone on this list who is in the UK who would be willing > and able to fix this PSU, or who knows someone who might be? Where are you in the UK? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 12:41:02 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:41:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: from "eric" at Mar 1, 9 02:51:03 pm Message-ID: > > >> an imploding CRT would likely shatter the lens also. =A0So, while this > >> gets rid of the "cataract", I think there's a compromise in safety. > > > > Yes, this would worry me also. Unless you know the exact reason for how > > the CRT was originally assembled, I would have though you shouldn't > > change anything. > > > Hmmm... should this give me 2nd thoughts about delaminating the lens > from my precious old terminal in order to rid it of said "cataracts"? > > Note: in reassembling it, I'd be using the procedure in the video, > which doesn't include reapplication of any such PVA material -- just > the lens stuck over the CRT and held on by 2-sided tape. Well I ceertainly wouldn't do it. Nor would I knowling sit in front of a CRT that had been 'repaired' in this way. An implosion could be _very_ unpleasant. I wonder : What about cutting the old adhexive out, cleaning the parts up, and then refitting the faceplate ('lens') with an optical adhesive (the sort of thing used to stick lens elements together)? Do people feel that would be strong enough to support the screen in the event of an implosion? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 12:43:28 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:43:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090301165141.M23796@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 1, 9 04:55:37 pm Message-ID: > > I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer > > actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. > > I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers > > how many columns those cards were blessed with. > > Sure, there are many other types of cards. Round holes, different shapes, > read by a matrix of push buttons, etc. Not to mention CF cards, SD cards, etc which, I believe store rather more data, and could easily store most MP3 files on a single card. [Sorry, couldn't resist] -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 12:48:40 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:48:40 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <200903012211.00684.rtellason@verizon.net> from "Roy J. Tellason" at Mar 1, 9 10:11:00 pm Message-ID: > > > If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be > > the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. > > In seeing photos of this in the process of dealing with it offlist, it looks I really do wish I'd got all the information... > exactly like that's what it was. When I asked about the markings on the > failed parts I was told that they included "250V", which is way inadequate > for UK mains voltages... Not necessarily. Some mains filter capacitors used over here are rated at 250VAC working. In other words they are designed to work on 250V (or less) AC mains.The DC rating is a lot higher. There are also several 'classes' of mains filter capacitors (X2, Y2, etc). One of them (I forget which, but I would check before replacing anything) is designed so it can't fail short-circuit. That is the type to use between either side of the mains and the case/dafety earth. The one across the mains is less critical safety-wise. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 12:50:43 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:50:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <49AB5442.4C61D8BA@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Mar 1, 9 07:36:33 pm Message-ID: > That's not necessarily a flaw: 120/240 supplies often do the voltage selection > by switching the circuit between bridge rectifier for 240V and voltage doubler > for 120V. In the bridge config two caps end up in series, so 250V+250V=500V. For the mains smoothing capacitors (large electrolytics after the rectifier stage), sure. But for the mains filter capacitors (non-polarised, connected acrsso the mains or between one side of the mains and ground, before the bridge rectifer), I doubt it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 13:00:35 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:00:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Facit 4070 paper tape punch In-Reply-To: <509726.81114.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from "Tom Watson" at Mar 2, 9 00:43:37 am Message-ID: > So, I'm looking for a chad box for one of these. Any leads would be helpful. Good luck. In my experience they are considerably rarer than the machines. About 20 years ago, Facit could still supply the chad box (and other spares for the 4070). But the price then was about \pounds 30.00. I have no idea if it's still available, but if so, it'll not be cheap. I would sgugest getting some plastic sheet and a solvent-toye adhesive and making one.. -tony From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 13:32:41 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:32:41 +0100 Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? In-Reply-To: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:09:19 -0800 > From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? > > Hi, > > Before I do it - I thought I should ask :) Can I use a > M9302 as a UNIBUS terminator in a PDP 11/35 or 11/40. > > The manual mentions a M930 which I don't have, but I do > have the M9302 which looks a bit more involved (has > some ICs. > > The M9302 was from a 11/34 which is a later generation. > > Having said that, the 11/35 does work without the > terminator - although I cant see a terminator on > the system. > > Thanks > > Ian. A lightly loaded system may run without the terminator, especially if no "DMA" device (such as the RL11) is on the bus. The start of the bus is terminated on the CPU, the other end is normally done by the M930 (in the /35 or /40). I have the M930 in 2 variations. One with discrete resistors, the other with the resistors in a modern DIL package. Needless to say that the machine will run better (read: less chance of hang-ups) with a terminator. - Henk, PA8PDP From RichA at vulcan.com Mon Mar 2 13:36:53 2009 From: RichA at vulcan.com (Rich Alderson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:36:53 -0800 Subject: MP3 files on DECtape [was RE: 1" paper tape buy ?] In-Reply-To: <49A70743.4070209@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> <200902261537.10291.rtellason@verizon.net> <49A6FE1D.9090601@gjcp.net> <49A70743.4070209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:19 PM > Mike Loewen wrote: >> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: >>> Didn't someone once work out that to store a single MP3 you'd need a >>> stack of 80-column cards ten miles high? >> Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card: >> 6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes >> / 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards >> * .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high >> / 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches >> / 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet > Umm if you store binary ... that is 80 bytes per card .. 46 feet per file. > Now how many dec tapes is that? We'll assume a PDP-11 DECtape since we're discussing 8-bit bytes. Depending on how we map those, the numbers can come out the same for PDP-1/4/7/9/15 and PDP-10 tapes; PDP-5/8/12 tapes *will* be different. A PDP-11 DECtape consists of 577 sectors of 256 words (= 512 bytes) each. If we assume a non-directory tape (that is, written with a user program instead of OS services), we can put (* 578 512) = 295936 bytes on a tape, so we will need (/ 6291456 295936) = 22 DECtapes; there will be only (- 6291456 6214656) = 76800 bytes on the last tape. If we instead choose to use a DECtape initialized by one of the various OSes, we lose different numbers of blocks per tape depending on OS. For example, if we use a Files-11 layout (RSX/IAS), we lose at least 10 blocks to filesystem overhead (5120 bytes) per DECtape. Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com (206) 342-2239 (206) 465-2916 cell From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 2 13:40:25 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:40:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090302113703.O68228@shell.lmi.net> On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Tony Duell wrote: > I wonder : What about cutting the old adhexive out, cleaning the parts > up, and then refitting the faceplate ('lens') with an optical adhesive > (the sort of thing used to stick lens elements together)? Do people feel > that would be strong enough to support the screen in the event of an > implosion? The adhesives used to stick lens elements together are not likely to have the strength to provide implosion safety. But, y'know, there used to be an optical adhesive with plenty of strength. They used to use it between CRTs and their faceplates. Unfortunately, sometimes it would degrade over time. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From RichA at vulcan.com Mon Mar 2 13:41:14 2009 From: RichA at vulcan.com (Rich Alderson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:41:14 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <006c01c9992e$27470180$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> References: <006c01c9992e$27470180$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> Message-ID: > From: CSquared > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:53 PM > I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer > actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. > I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers > how many columns those cards were blessed with. Univac 90-column cards are Hollerith cards just like the "IBM" cards. They consist of upper and lower groups of 45 columns of 6 round punches (instead of the rectangular punches favoured by IBM). Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com (206) 342-2239 (206) 465-2916 cell From legalize at xmission.com Mon Mar 2 13:46:30 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:30 -0700 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:51:03 -0800. Message-ID: In article , eric writes: > >> an imploding CRT would likely shatter the lens also. =A0So, while this > >> gets rid of the "cataract", I think there's a compromise in safety. > > > Yes, this would worry me also. Unless you know the exact reason for how > > the CRT was originally assembled, I would have though you shouldn't > > change anything. > > Hmmm... should this give me 2nd thoughts about delaminating the lens > from my precious old terminal in order to rid it of said "cataracts"? > > Note: in reassembling it, I'd be using the procedure in the video, > which doesn't include reapplication of any such PVA material -- just > the lens stuck over the CRT and held on by 2-sided tape. Well, the previous discussions along this line talked about removing the laminated front with a nichrome wire. I believe at least one list member reported using this technique. The question is what did they do after that? Did they reapply some sort of PVA type material? I don't see how you could do that in a way and keep the thickness uniform, but what do I know? Maybe there's an easy way to keep the thickenss uniform and then you can repair the safety as well as the appearance. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From eric940 at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 13:59:54 2009 From: eric940 at gmail.com (eric) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:59:54 -0800 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <20090302113703.O68228@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090302113703.O68228@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > But, y'know, there used to be an optical adhesive with plenty of strength. > They used to use it between CRTs and their faceplates. ?Unfortunately, > sometimes it would degrade over time. Once again, I say, go figure! ;-) So where does (or can) one find a *safe* replacement? There used to be a place on the east coast of the USA (the name escapes me at the moment), but I never heard back after several attempts to contact them. Sad thing is that when I type on the terminal, the characters are still crystal clear (no cataracts, and no CRT blurring) in the middle of the screen. Eric From caveguy at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 2 14:05:07 2009 From: caveguy at sbcglobal.net (Bob Bradlee) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:05:07 -0500 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200903022005.n22K5CaR009750@keith.ezwind.net> On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:30 -0700, Richard wrote: >Well, the previous discussions along this line talked about removing >the laminated front with a nichrome wire. I believe at least one list >member reported using this technique. The question is what did they >do after that? Did they reapply some sort of PVA type material? I >don't see how you could do that in a way and keep the thickness >uniform, but what do I know? Maybe there's an easy way to keep the >thickenss uniform and then you can repair the safety as well as the >appearance. Keeping the gap uniform is an easy task, compaired to getting the bubbles out of anything you try to fill the gap with. In a perfect world, I would hang the tube face down over a heat source. and fill the lense gap from the sides. Removing the heat for this magical goo to set up after filling out the voids. second thought, as for the "goo" maby something that uses UV to set up ? later Bob From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Mar 2 14:14:02 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:14:02 -0600 Subject: books, free for cost of shipping from austin, tx In-Reply-To: <49AB9383.5090703@pacbell.net> References: <49AB9383.5090703@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <49AC3E0A.9010402@pacbell.net> A number of books have been claimed, but there have been multiple requests for some. To prevent more of that, here is the updated list: Windows 95 API How-To The Definitive Windwos API Problem-Solver Matthew Telles, Andrew Cook 750 pages + CD Windows Programming Annotated Archives Herb Shildt 520 pages + CD Windows 95 A Developer's Guide Jeffrey Richter Jonathan Locke 616 pages + CD Windows 95 A Programmer's Case Book Seven S. Chen 754 pages + CD Advanced Windows (Third Edition) Jeffrey Richter 1050 pages + CD Multithreading Applications in Win32 The Complete Guide to Threads Jim Beveridge Robert Wiener 368 pages + CD Windows 95 WIN32 Programming API Bible Book 1 Richard Simon 1378 pages + CD Programming Windows 95 The Definitive Developer's Guide to the Windows 95 API Charles Petzold, Paul Yao 1100 pages + CD Linux System Administration Vicki Stanfield, Roderick W. Smith 657 pages, (c) 2001 Elements of COBOL Programming Wilson T. Price, Jack L. Olson 375 pages, (c) 1977 Fortran IV (Second Edition) Organick/Meissner Standard Fortran WATFOR-WATFIV 293 pages, (c) 1974 BASIC (2nd Edition) Samuel L Marateck 475 pages, (c) 1982 APL An Interactive Approach (Second Edition) Leonard Gilman and Allen J. Rose 378 pages, (c) 1976 Burroughs B 1000 Systems Interactive BASIC (IBASIC) Language Manual ~120 pages?, (c) 1974 Three ring binder holes, staples removed From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 2 14:25:58 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: seeking barcode scanner Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone here has an unloved USB laser barcode scanner. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu From RichA at vulcan.com Mon Mar 2 14:33:03 2009 From: RichA at vulcan.com (Rich Alderson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:33:03 -0800 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hadn't seen this in a while. Current rating is 0x120. Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com (206) 342-2239 (206) 465-2916 cell From feedle at feedle.net Mon Mar 2 14:43:03 2009 From: feedle at feedle.net (feedle at feedle.net) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:43:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: seeking barcode scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > I was wondering if anyone here has an unloved USB laser barcode scanner. No, but I might have a USB Cue::Cat. From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 2 14:47:17 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:47:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: seeking barcode scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, feedle at feedle.net wrote: >> I was wondering if anyone here has an unloved USB laser barcode scanner. > > No, but I might have a USB Cue::Cat. I have more than a few of those already. I'm discovering that they're not especially suited for scanning an entire library. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 14:48:04 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:48:04 -0500 Subject: seeking barcode scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David Griffith wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone here has an unloved USB laser barcode scanner. I do not, but I did just use a PS/2 barcode scanner on a Mac with a Belkin PS/2-USB KB/mouse adapter and it worked fine once I got the Mac to recognize the Belkin (OS X requires that you type the keys next to the shift keys as part of a setup probe to determine US/UK/Eur layout). I picked up the PS/2 barcode scanner at the Mansfield hamfest in 2006 for somewhere around $10. As someone pointed out, a USB CueCat might be easy to find, but I don't have any of those. -ethan From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Mar 2 14:56:02 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:56:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <49AC208C.5040305@atarimuseum.com> from Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum at "Mar 2, 9 01:08:12 pm" Message-ID: <200903022056.n22Ku2sc015166@floodgap.com> > It all folded under Commodore Gaming. www.commodoregaming.com They > sell PC's with skinned cases. Looks like they are trying to compete > against Dell/Alienware in the highend PC gaming market. Actually, I'm pretty sure it *isn't* them. CG only bought rights to the name (in this case from Yeahromino, after Tulip sold the name to them), based on my (admittedly cursory) conversations with their management. The ROM rights are a little more nebulous, but CG definitely doesn't have them. My suspicion is that the engineering IP wasn't part of the Tulip->Yeahronimo sale, so Tulip probably still has the copyright. Tulip did get money from the C64 30-in-1 sales, so at least at that time they still had the rights. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Never explain, never apologise. -- John Arbuthnot "Jackie" Fisher ---------- From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Mar 2 15:53:00 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:53:00 -0300 Subject: Zilog suicide References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com><49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <18ce01c99b81$be4e2a90$86a819bb@DeskJara> > Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri Ellsworth? I'd hand her a marrying ring... From classiccmp at philpem.me.uk Mon Mar 2 16:00:46 2009 From: classiccmp at philpem.me.uk (Philip Pemberton) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:00:46 +0000 Subject: seeking barcode scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AC570E.1070801@philpem.me.uk> David Griffith wrote: > I have more than a few of those already. I'm discovering that they're > not especially suited for scanning an entire library. The PSC 5381-123042 is a pretty decent scanner. Handheld, laser-based, RS232 output, with a pushbutton to enable the scanner. Fairly cheap on the second-hand market, too. I've got one tethered to a Socket Communications "R-I/O" PCMCIA serial port card, but the interface is via a 10-pin RJ45 on the bottom of the scanner, so not hard to interface with. IIRC it asks for +5V at 200mA, and provides RS232-level RXD/TXD outputs. If I was going down this route (again) I'd pick up a cheap used scanner on ebay, and an FTDI USB-to-TTL converter cable (their UC232R-10-NE is probably the best for this sort of hackery). Lop the DB9 off the scanner, and desolder the one on the UC232 (personally I'd hacksaw through the DB9 pins and desolder the remains). Solder the bare wires from the scanner onto the UC232 board, and put it in a small plastic box. Use a few cable ties to hold the cables down (epoxy/superglue the cables to the ties if you feel pessimistic) and you've got a USB scanner for far less than a new one would have cost... You could also (probably) use one of those PS/2 keyboard to USB adapter cables, and a keyboard-wedge scanner. Only thing is, some of those adapters won't forward keypresses along unless they can actually see a keyboard on the other end of the cable (most scanners let the keyboard handle the pings, and just inject characters as-and-when). As regards to what scanner to use, go name brand -- that is, Symbol, PSC, or Metrologic. The Metrologic 9520 (Voyager) series work very well, and are pretty damned reliable (not to mention cheap on the used market, and pretty close to bulletproof). If you're wanting to scan a ton of ISBN barcodes off of books, I'd skip the 5381 (unless you can find one with the optional -- and expensive -- desk stand or can live with having to press the button to make it scan) and get a desk scanner of some description. The "el-cheapo" Chinese scanners might be an option, but don't expect them to scan anywhere near as reliably as a Symbol or Metrologic. Just my 2p... -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:10:49 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:10:49 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com><49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com><49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com><20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> <18ce01c99b81$be4e2a90$86a819bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <34CEBE18CC87482982FAEA66E539D054@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandre Souza" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Zilog suicide >> Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri >> Ellsworth? > > I'd hand her a marrying ring... Yea, but you know is going to be wearing the soldering iron in that relationship.... From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 2 17:00:03 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:00:03 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: References: <200903020736.n227acUN026042@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <49AC64F3.4030407@neurotica.com> Barry Watzman wrote: > 8 volts and 16 volts is correct. Frankly, I would stay on LOW side (but not > below 7.5 volts). MANY systems burn up boards because they are towards the > high side (it was a huge issue for early SOL-20's). S-100 boards use linear > regulators, and many of them pushed those WAY too hard, to the point that > they got so hot they charred the board. Some notable candidates includes > the Tarbell double density controller card, the IMSAI SIO2-2 card and a > number of memory cards. At 9 volts, the linear regulator has to dissipate 4 > volts x {whatever current}. A board like the Tarbell double density board > has one regulator for the entire board, about 60 ICs including some big LSI > chips (179x FDC & Intel 8257 DMA) and ONE linear regulator that gets > ridiculously hot at even 8 volts. The difference between 8 volts and 9 > volts is 25% and makes a HUGE difference. I'm not sure I'd consider that to be very good advice. You make a good point about the power dissipation, but the dropout voltage of an LM7805 is about 2V...that's pushing the margin pretty tight. If you ever have 500mV of ripple.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From vern4wright at yahoo.com Mon Mar 2 17:40:04 2009 From: vern4wright at yahoo.com (Vernon Wright) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:40:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: books, free for cost of shipping from austin, tx In-Reply-To: <49AC3E0A.9010402@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <461909.66010.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Jim, I googled it remind myself of what book it is (rather than go look on my book shelves or in my catalogue) and to my shock I found this on Amazon: ************************** Used (1 to 1 of 1 offers sorted by : Price + Shipping) Price + Shipping Condition Seller Information Ready to buy? $238.39 + $3.99shipping * LOW ITEM PRICE Used - Very Good * Seller: bookstores12 * Rating:96% positive over the past 12 months (3887 ratings.) 5822 lifetime ratings. * Shipping: In Stock. Ships from TX, United States. International shipping available. See Shipping Rates. See return policy. * Comments: nice copy!!! almost no wear ************************** Note that this is the LOW ITEM PRICE!!! Even if it were signed by Ken Iverson, it still wouldn't be $238.39! (I checked, I have a copy). Vern Wright --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Jim Battle wrote: > From: Jim Battle > Subject: Re: books, free for cost of shipping from austin, tx > To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 12:14 PM > A number of books have been claimed, but there have been > multiple requests for some. To prevent more of that, here > is the updated list: > > > Windows 95 API How-To > The Definitive Windwos API Problem-Solver > Matthew Telles, Andrew Cook > 750 pages + CD > > Windows Programming > Annotated Archives > Herb Shildt > 520 pages + CD > > Windows 95 > A Developer's Guide > Jeffrey Richter > Jonathan Locke > 616 pages + CD > > Windows 95 > A Programmer's Case Book > Seven S. Chen > 754 pages + CD > > Advanced Windows (Third Edition) > Jeffrey Richter > 1050 pages + CD > > Multithreading Applications in Win32 > The Complete Guide to Threads > Jim Beveridge > Robert Wiener > 368 pages + CD > > Windows 95 WIN32 Programming API Bible > Book 1 > Richard Simon > 1378 pages + CD > > Programming Windows 95 > The Definitive Developer's Guide to the Windows 95 API > Charles Petzold, Paul Yao > 1100 pages + CD > > Linux System Administration > Vicki Stanfield, Roderick W. Smith > 657 pages, (c) 2001 > > Elements of COBOL Programming > Wilson T. Price, Jack L. Olson > 375 pages, (c) 1977 > > Fortran IV (Second Edition) > Organick/Meissner > Standard Fortran WATFOR-WATFIV > 293 pages, (c) 1974 > > BASIC (2nd Edition) > Samuel L Marateck > 475 pages, (c) 1982 > > APL > An Interactive Approach (Second Edition) > Leonard Gilman and Allen J. Rose > 378 pages, (c) 1976 > > Burroughs B 1000 Systems Interactive BASIC (IBASIC) > Language Manual > ~120 pages?, (c) 1974 > Three ring binder holes, staples removed From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 2 17:40:16 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:40:16 -0700 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <18ce01c99b81$be4e2a90$86a819bb@DeskJara> References: <200903021624.n22GOabQ010246@floodgap.com><49AC0F4D.60905@atarimuseum.com> <49AC1C10.2060708@arachelian.com> <20090302110541.X68228@shell.lmi.net> <18ce01c99b81$be4e2a90$86a819bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49AC6E60.6070403@jetnet.ab.ca> Alexandre Souza wrote: >> Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri >> Ellsworth? > > I'd hand her a marrying ring... > And she will hand you a nose ring ! :) From tpeters at mixcom.com Mon Mar 2 17:38:58 2009 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:38:58 -0600 Subject: seeking barcode scanner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090302172543.0bcfdec8@localhost> My friend Mike has a half dozen new-in-box-but-box-is-damaged scanners. The scanners are fine, not even discolored. I have an Intermec from him that reads all the 2D codes and some of the 3D types, though not UPS shipping labels. But it works fine on WD hard disk drive serial and model number barcode tags, and everything else I tried, including UPC codes and printed paper barcode labels on PC parts. We often slap mice and video cards on the copier so we can have a paper record to be entered en mass into the asset tracking system. Today I scanned **a photocopy** of the bottom of some mouses and video cards and was able to read all but one of them. Some Intermec, some PSC, some other brands, and I think they're all keyboard wedge style. All the cables re included for a machine with a PS/2 style small DIN keyboard connector. They are mostly hand-held with a trigger style. They are programmed by printing out selected pages from the PDF manual or printed copy and scanning them in sequence. They are substantial commercial grade devices, not in the least flimsy. I think he's used them on a machine with a USB keyboard simply by plugging the scanner into the PS2 port. The keyboard connector on the scanner's cable then gets plugged into nothing. I'm sure he'd sell you any number of them for under $50 each, although you'd have to ask him yourself. I'll send you some contact info privately. -T At 12:25 PM 3/2/2009 -0800, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone here has an unloved USB laser barcode scanner. > >-- >David Griffith >dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu ----- 593. [Science Fiction] A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but it is by no means the most interesting. --Dr. Who --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531 From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Mar 2 17:45:45 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:45:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <49AC6E60.6070403@jetnet.ab.ca> from "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" at "Mar 2, 9 04:40:16 pm" Message-ID: <200903022345.n22NjjJf017966@floodgap.com> > > > Howzbout we chip in, buy the rights, and hand them over to Geri > > > Ellsworth? > > > > I'd hand her a marrying ring... > > And she will hand you a nose ring ! :) She must be very glad she doesn't read this list, I know it. ;-) -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- It's not enough to be Hungarian. You must have talent too. -- Alex Korda --- From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 2 17:51:41 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:51:41 -0500 Subject: Zilog suicide In-Reply-To: <200903022056.n22Ku2sc015166@floodgap.com> References: <200903022056.n22Ku2sc015166@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <49AC710D.2070302@atarimuseum.com> Well, in all seriousness from the way we all let this topic get sidetracked.... If Zilog is really going the way of the dinosaurs... someone needs to get in there, get any original photoplots, designs, memo's, photographs and other historically relevant materials to preserve this company. Curt From pete at dunnington.plus.com Mon Mar 2 18:06:45 2009 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:06:45 +0000 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AC7495.8080403@dunnington.plus.com> On 02/03/2009 18:37, Tony Duell wrote: > While I beleive there are SMPSUs that fail if turned on with no/insufficient > load, I've yet to meet one. The small switcher in DEC's TK50 tabletop box does exactly that. I got to sort through a pallet-load of the things once, and got to keep several that looked repairable. Well, they were, but at least two had to be repaired twice because I forgot to hook up the minimum load board that the TK50-AA box usually has. However, I have to admit that's the only time I've been bitten in that way, and the PSU in a BA23 certainly shouldn't get too upset by a no-load situation. I'd guess it's just lost a mains filter cap. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From onymouse at garlic.com Mon Mar 2 09:02:21 2009 From: onymouse at garlic.com (jd) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:02:21 -0800 Subject: Halted In-Reply-To: <49A55215.6060207@ubanproductions.com> References: <1e1fc3e90902232350t69b17674vefa1644257594980@mail.gmail.com> <49A55215.6060207@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <49ABF4FD.5010602@garlic.com> Halted is still around, though they occasionally talk of closing down their retail front and doing internet and mail sales only. IIRC, they first opened in Sunnyvale on Evelyns next to an electrical contractor next to a trailer park, then moved down the street to an old office complex next to Lawrence, then had to move soon after because the property owners wanted to build something else there, so they ended up near Central and Lawrence in Santa Clara. Their first store carried tons of surplus mil gear, old test equipment from the 40's thru the 60's, Heathkit, and old stuf like cores, old Winchesters, CPU boards from mains and minis, and so on. They also sold new micro kits, like IMSAI, IIRC. Alltronics moved from Union Rd in Los Gatos to larger quarters on Zanker Road, then a few years later closed the retail front, opened the mail order and internet sales and moved to San Martin. The store has changed hands a few times. The founder was a ham and had quite a few pieces of ham and mil surplus. They also sold micro kits briefly. As mentioned, Haltek closed. Seems they closed for good. They also had a lot of mil surplus. Just before closing, they tossed a lot of useful old components and assemblies from really old hardware. I suspect that was when business really started dropping off. Weird Stuff is still around, having moved over by Moffett Field. They used to be right across the street from Fry's before Fry's moved into the old Link-Singer factory on Arques. Weird Stuff moved out first, though. They still carry a lot of interesting stuff, such as tons of old and used computer hardware and software, including mini and micro stuff. There was a lot of Commodore and Apple stuff there the last time I went, plus working Suns and old Macs for sale. Occasionally, they have old Winchesters for auction. The BIG ones: 14 inches or so. Interesting thing about Fry's: if you just looked at the store numbers, you might think that they actually had 20 or so stores. But many stores moved to bigger buildings and every time they moved, they got a new store number. The Sunnyvale store on Arques, which is store #12, is the third expansion of Store #1, which was originally behind the Carl's Jr on Lawrence just south of 101. There are a few "surplus" stores around the SillyCon Valley, most notable for carrying used PC stuff, old software and PRC knockoffs of various tools and hardware. Occasionally one can score some really good stuff, like old phone switch and end station parts, pallets of Cisco stuff, perhaps a Sun or two that were used as development systems, and even some old semiconductor equipment. Speaking of antikytheria, a surplus store in Moss Landing has one or two mechanical gunnery computers left. A place called Surplus Stuff was in Milpitas and had a lot of interesting office, industrial and computer surplus. Quements closed it's retail front years ago. Haven't heard of them since. They were a huge name in electronics sales for the area from the 1930's. Had a catalog bigger than Radio Shack's but smaller than Newark's. And even they sold micros in the late 70's and 80's. They tried PC sales, too, with the Osborne and IBM PC, but never got far with it. There used to be an old phone store in Cupertino, selling every kind of old phone stuff you could think of, from Bell, GTE and everyone else. They had old cord boards and Strowger frames, too. I don't know if they are still there. Cupertino has changed much lately. It used to be that an engineer could spend the day going from Haltek to Halted to Alltronics, to Surplus Stuff, to Weird Stuff, to Quements, to Fry's, etc., hunting for parts and old software they needed, breaking for lunch at Cal Fresh and waiting up to an hour in line to get in. Nowadays, it takes only an hour or so and there are no more lines at Cal Fresh (now Fresh Choice). There are too many knockoffs. hardly worth the trouble anymore. jd From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 18:48:43 2009 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:48:43 -0600 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <20090302113703.O68228@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090302113703.O68228@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AC7E6B.6020408@gmail.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > But, y'know, there used to be an optical adhesive with plenty of strength. > They used to use it between CRTs and their faceplates. Unfortunately, > sometimes it would degrade over time. So how do you recover from such degradation? (why can't email have a JMP instruction? :-) From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Mar 2 19:04:48 2009 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:04:48 -0800 Subject: Halted In-Reply-To: <49ABF4FD.5010602@garlic.com> References: <1e1fc3e90902232350t69b17674vefa1644257594980@mail.gmail.com> <49A55215.6060207@ubanproductions.com> <49ABF4FD.5010602@garlic.com> Message-ID: There is one other surplus store left in the Bay Area that I enjoy frequenting. It's called Excess Solutions, located on Milpitas Blvd. in Milpitas. They've got a big warehouse full of surprisingly well sorted goodies -- mostly components, switches, ICs, resistors, caps, transistors, screws, o-rings, etc. etc. etc., but also a back-room with three long rows of miscellaneous hardware. I've seen some "almost classic" SGI and Sun stuff there. Their prices seem to be very reasonable, too. Definitely worth a trip if you haven't been there, just don't expect anything too exotic (sorry, I've never seen any DG or DEC stuff there). -Seth From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 19:40:08 2009 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:40:08 -0600 Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AC8A78.7080105@gmail.com> Richard wrote: > Well, the previous discussions along this line talked about removing > the laminated front with a nichrome wire. I believe at least one list > member reported using this technique. I did it with an HP-250, but that was for a non-functional system (i.e. it needed to look as nice as possible, but increased implosion risk was not a factor) - hence there's currently just an air gap between CRT and faceplate on that particular machine. For that tiny screen, I got enough juice (just) from a plain old PC power supply to cut through the failed sealant. (One day that machine almost certainly will get restored to working order, but not in the near future I suspect) > Maybe there's an easy way to keep the thickenss uniform and then you can > repair the safety as well as the appearance. Personally I've used a lot of 70s and later machines and never known a tube implode - I think for my own use I'd be tempted not to screw around with replacing the sealant (subject to next owner knowing what they were getting, of course). I wouldn't want to risk it for anything "public" though. cheers Jules From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Mar 2 11:09:07 2009 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:09:07 -0800 Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? In-Reply-To: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7D449028-DE9E-4F00-BDF3-9A64435CA931@shiresoft.com> It should work although I typically use M9312's since they have the bootstrap ROMs. TTFN - Guy On Mar 2, 2009, at 8:09 AM, silvercreekvalley wrote: > > Hi, > > Before I do it - I thought I should ask :) Can I use a > M9302 as a UNIBUS terminator in a PDP 11/35 or 11/40. > > The manual mentions a M930 which I don't have, but I do > have the M9302 which looks a bit more involved (has > some ICs. > > The M9302 was from a 11/34 which is a later generation. > > Having said that, the 11/35 does work without the > terminator - although I cant see a terminator on > the system. > > Thanks > > Ian. > > > > From dm561 at torfree.net Mon Mar 2 23:50:58 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:50:58 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? Message-ID: <01C99B9A.21572D40@host-208-72-122-88.dyn.295.ca> -----------Original Message: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:04:49 -0500 From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: > Title basically says it all -- anyone have any recommendations for a decent > power supply for an AIM-65? ?I have it running right now on just 5V, but I > need something that puts out 24V so I can run the little printer, too :). > ?It'd be nice nice to something small enough to fit inside the enclosure > this thing came in but I'm not that picky. ?My searches on the 'net reveal a > lot of choices, so I'm looking for advice on what to look out for. > > For those playing along at home, the AIM-65 wants 5V at ~2A, and 24V at > ~2.5A. I don't know where to get one now, but my AIM came packaged with a steel bottom, a plastic top, and a PSU that has "AIM65" in the part number and that provides +24V. It looks like many other 1970s open-frame switchers with a large 1/8" or 3/16" aluminum baseplate and one or two power transistors, but unlike the others, it has more than just +5, and +/-12V. So at one point, someone was making 3"x4"x2" PSUs just for the AIM-65. Unless you happened to run across some that someone has as a stash of spares, I don't know where you'd find that exact model now, but it does exist. -ethan ---------------Reply: A lot of the old dot matrix printers had +5V and ~+24V supplies that would work with minor adjustments (also good for 8" floppy drives); they usually just end up being scrapped anyway. mike From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 00:00:57 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:00:57 -0500 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <6957.1235956301@mini> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> <575131af0903010854q14f5bcb5y1e683610249046a6@mail.gmail.com> <78ff9a210903010907u3d91d27nd9a90708aa3b8c08@mail.gmail.com> <6957.1235956301@mini> Message-ID: > Kelly Fergason wrote: >>Yeah, I'm 45, and just missed punch cards in college. ? and I'm not >>complaining... 0x134 (0465, 309, 60.3%) - Guru I'm just a bit younger, but I also just missed punch cards in college as a required activity, but the equipment was still littering the halls in the computer building only a few years earlier when I was wandering around as a bored kid (I grew up a couple of blocks away from Ohio State Univ. and used to hang out in a couple places on Campus that didn't have the equipment locked away, like the one closet with a pair of DECwriters w/built-in acoustic couplers, or the Education library with the free PLATO terminals). I also used to make and test DEC<->IBM communication peripherals at a place that had RSX-11, RSTS, VMS, UNIX, and VM/CMS running, giving me lots of IBM, DEC, and datacomm experience. I was never a huge IBM guy, but between operating COMBOARDs and taking the one FORTRAN class in college, I did fiddle with them a bit and did have to learn EBCDIC to interpret line analyzer streams of HASP, 3780, and SNA traffic (including lots and lots of BIND debugging!) It doesn't hurt ones score that these days, the "joke" questions like 0215 "Do you use more than 1 terabyte?" are not as absurd as they once were. In terms of rating the test, FWIW, question numbers 0071 and 0077 aren't really questions, they are section headers; and 0245 doesn't appear at all, so nobody better get a score above 0x1fd (without cheating, which ought to be a question on its own). Lots of memories (and lots of years!) wrapped up in those answers. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 00:03:27 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:03:27 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? In-Reply-To: <01C999E2.99163D80@host-208-72-122-12.dyn.295.ca> References: <01C999E2.99163D80@host-208-72-122-12.dyn.295.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:24 PM, M H Stein wrote: > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:04:49 -0500 > From: Ethan Dicks > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: >> Title basically says it all -- anyone have any recommendations for a decent >> power supply for an AIM-65? ?I have it running right now on just 5V, but I >> need something that puts out 24V so I can run the little printer, too :). > > I don't know where to get one now, but my AIM came packaged with a > steel bottom, a plastic top, and a PSU that has "AIM65" in the part > number and that provides +24V. > > ---------------Reply: > > Well, I do have a 'stash' of about 6 or so but unfortunately (for you) I also > have a stash of AIM-65s... > > FWIW, there were at least two suppliers: initially Condor Inc. supplied one > (part no. AA524-AIM65)... The Condor 24V supply looks > like just a half-wave diode, cap and Zener. I checked. That's the one I have, the Condor -ethan From Volker.Pohlers at gmx.net Mon Mar 2 03:35:14 2009 From: Volker.Pohlers at gmx.net (Volker Pohlers) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:35:14 +0100 Subject: N8VEM JUHA SD interface Message-ID: <20090302093514.18220@gmx.net> Hello Mr. Lynch, I found your N8VEM project on web. I'm interested in JUHA SD interface for my own computer (http://homecomputer-ddr.de.vu/z9001/z9001_sdcard.htm) It is possible to get contact to Mr. Juha for some special questions? Sincerely yours, Volker (I send this email once again, now with header) -- Mit freundlichen 8 Bit Volker Pohlers homecomputer-ddr.de.vu - Z9001, Z1013, LC80, ... - Computer Bild Tarifsieger! GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL f?r nur 17,95 ?/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 05:59:14 2009 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:59:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: 8088 vs. 80c88 In-Reply-To: <49AB1FA2.23782.64E46F1A@cclist.sydex.com> References: <200902261200.n1QBxnYo078328@dewey.classiccmp.org>, <49A6A960.5010207@hildenbrandt.com> <49AB1FA2.23782.64E46F1A@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> I assumed the rabbit was a z180, you learn something new every day. I >> have done a few designes with z180's, but I cant even rememer what >> language tools I used at this point. > > The Rabbit Semiconductor R2000, R3000, R4000 series (still being > made) are Z80/Z180 "sort-of". Lots of "rarely used" opcodes (e.g. > DAA, IN, OUT, etc.) are replaced by other instructions. See: > > http://www.rabbit.com/documentation/docs/manuals/Rabbit4000/Instructio > nReference/ > > How much patching do you think it would take to get CP/M to run on an > R3000? There was a long thread pertaining to this on comp.os.cpm recently. The concensus was that while a port of CP/M itself could be done, there were potential issues with applications and utility programs. -- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Mar 2 06:51:58 2009 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:51:58 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges Message-ID: <0KFV00M38QCG7IW2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> > >Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges > From: "Andrew Lynch" > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:03:10 -0500 > To: > >Hi! What are acceptable voltage supply ranges for an S-100 power supply? I >am assuming 115VAC input. My intended application is a small home brew >S-100 backplane. > >I have seen the S-100 voltage rails vary but I believe +15VDC, -15VDC, and >+9VDC would be sufficient. Herb's S-100 page lists the voltages as +18VDC, >-16VDC, and +8VDC but I have seen other voltages used. > >Thanks and have a nice day! > >Andrew Lynch The minimim voltages are +8, +15 and -15 or otherwise said at least 3V greater than the on card regulator. The maximum is generally +10, +18, -18v the caveat here is while most of the regulators used will accept up to 25-30V excessive voltages leads to overheating especially on the +8 buss where the highest current users are. Ideally well filterd voltages at the minimum on the +8V, +15V busses are desired and there were a few S100 boxes that did exactly that. Allison From harten at injectstar.de Mon Mar 2 08:36:16 2009 From: harten at injectstar.de (Harten) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:36:16 +0100 Subject: Dumping MCM6832 PROMs In-Reply-To: <49A70C1D.7000705@bitsavers.org> References: <49A70C1D.7000705@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: In message <49A70C1D.7000705 at bitsavers.org> you wrote: > > Please mail me, if you are interested in the data i was reading from the ROMs. > > It is in Binary format. > > Sorry to post this here, but email to the address you used appears to be bouncing. > I'm interested. > > Should i use this email address (aek at bit....) to send the images to you? Regards, Axel. -- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Mar 2 12:06:59 2009 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:06:59 -0500 Subject: compact pdp11 and front panel Message-ID: <0KFW0076I4XHRLG5@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Qbus -11s are poor candidates as they are hard to stall. That said you can display the dynamic address and data. This does meand latching the multiplexed address and data and providing led drivers for that. Also note as Chuck has said very little of the CPU state is brought to the bus so you cannot see 11/34 or 11/70 style info. To be able to write to memory or incrementially display a location is far harder as the CPU is continiously active and hard to stop and restart without some code. A switch flipping blinkin lights front pannel for an 11 is not simething I've missed and I"ve run 11/34s and 11/70s. In both those cases they were never used or needed. Allison > >Subject: Re: compact pdp11 and front panel > From: Dave McGuire > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:11:44 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > Cc: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On Mar 2, 2009, at 4:33 AM, David Griffith wrote: >> Does anyone know anything about shoehorning a front panel with lots >> of lights and switches onto a compact pdp11 (say, a /73 or /83)? > > I don't know anything about it specifically, but just from >thinking about it...I think the best you'd probably be able to do is >address and data LEDs, plus RUN, and maybe a few others...not much >more (i.e., no address spaces, processor states, etc) because the >signals aren't brought out to the pins on the J11 chip. > > But if that'd be enough, you could probably do it by using some >buffers to drive the LEDs, and doing DMA cycles onto the bus for the >switches. I'd probably take a whack at it if I had some time. > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >Port Charlotte, FL From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Mar 2 12:15:19 2009 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:15:19 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges Message-ID: <0KFW00FJX5BDIDN5@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> Some S100 chassis had multiple primary taps, CVT or a in the case of Inetgrand {and a few others} boxes regulators. The problem is the early machines had to have really robust transformers as the +8V bus could easily be 25A using early boards. By 1980s with 64k ram cards (64k on one card) and multi serial IOs on one board a typical system might take from 3-5 board at far lower current than the earlier 4k ot 8k based memory systems. The side effect fo that was the bus voltages being upregulated would float higher and regulators would run really hot. Near the latter days typcail systems were system on a card (z80, 64k or even 128k, 2 serial, FDC and printer port) making the whole load typically under 3-4A at +8V and the need for more boards unlikely. Allison > >Subject: Re: S-100 power supply voltage ranges > From: "Barry Watzman" > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:42:55 -0500 > To: > >Actually, the factory fix was a "bucking transformer", a whole second power >transformer installed out of phase in series with the primary power >transformer so that the voltages were subtractive. There is a factory ECN >on this topic. But the bridge regulator solution was common among the user >base (I myself have used it) as a lot simpler and cheaper, and almost as >effective. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:07:56 -0600 >From: Jim Battle >Subject: Re: S-100 power supply voltage ranges >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >Message-ID: <49A96F6C.6060602 at pacbell.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Chuck Guzis wrote: >> All of the S100 boards I've seen use simple linear regulators, so you >> >> need some headroom--but not too much. A lot of S100 7805s and LM323- >> 5s were operated within an inch of their maximum current ratings (some >> had bypass resistors installed) and generated a lot of heat. I >> >> wouldn't run the supply rails any higher than I had to. >> >> Cheers, >> Chuck >> >> > >The Sol-20 had an app note about this problem. Apparently they shipped them >for a while with transformers that were out of spec with the end result that >the unregulated power ran high. The recommended fix was to take a power >bridge, mount it to the case, and wire it in series with the positive >voltage run in order to get a ~1.4V drop. > > From jrr at flippers.com Mon Mar 2 13:00:15 2009 From: jrr at flippers.com (John Robertson) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:00:15 -0800 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <6FB56B9FDD5B49A78CDD0BB4DD3B4BF5@andrewdesktop> References: <6FB56B9FDD5B49A78CDD0BB4DD3B4BF5@andrewdesktop> Message-ID: <49AC2CBF.3050905@flippers.com> Andrew Lynch wrote: > Hi! What are acceptable voltage supply ranges for an S-100 power supply? I > am assuming 115VAC input. My intended application is a small home brew > S-100 backplane. > > I have seen the S-100 voltage rails vary but I believe +15VDC, -15VDC, and > +9VDC would be sufficient. Herb's S-100 page lists the voltages as +18VDC, > -16VDC, and +8VDC but I have seen other voltages used. > > Thanks and have a nice day! > > Andrew Lynch > > > > While I do not know all the ranges of voltages folks here are dealing with on many classic computers I can assure everyone that putting in devices called "Tranzorbs/Transorbs" for machines running with Linear Power Supplies (not as required for switching supplies) may protect your computer from problems with linear power supplies that do not have output voltage protection. In the old days the manufacturers often used devices called "Crowbars" that would literally short out the outputs of the supply if the output voltage rose past a predefined point. This would protect the downstream components from most power supply issues. Lots of folks here are in areas with less than perfectly regulated mains and Transorbs can also smooth down momentary surges. Transorbs can be found with many suppliers and they can easily be added to most power supplies - if you are concerned that the Transorb will burn out (perhaps those 100A 5VDC rails) then you can put a few in and a fuse between the supply and the Transorb (and load). The fuse should blow before the Transorb explodes... MOVs on the line input can protect your devices from lightning strikes, etc. and are contained in good quality surge suppression protection extension cords or UPS supplies. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From chrise at pobox.com Mon Mar 2 14:33:44 2009 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:33:44 -0600 Subject: Facit 4070 paper tape punch In-Reply-To: References: <509726.81114.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090302203344.GB30219@n0jcf.net> On Monday (03/02/2009 at 07:00PM +0000), Tony Duell wrote: > > > So, I'm looking for a chad box for one of these. Any leads would be helpful. > > Good luck. In my experience they are considerably rarer than the machines. > > About 20 years ago, Facit could still supply the chad box (and other > spares for the 4070). But the price then was about \pounds 30.00. I have > no idea if it's still available, but if so, it'll not be cheap. > > I would sgugest getting some plastic sheet and a solvent-toye adhesive > and making one.. I have this same issue for the GNT 3601 punch that I recently obtained. There must have been some people out there that had a fetish for chad boxes :-) I intend to make a prototype using Origami techniques-- ie, cut and fold some manila folder cardboard to get the dimensions just right-- and then when I get a round tuit, I'll perhaps make a plastic one. A cardboard one will be way better than vacuuming up the chad from the shop floor as I am doing now though. Chris From RMeenaks at olf.com Mon Mar 2 19:38:12 2009 From: RMeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:38:12 -0500 Subject: Anyone have this article from Creative Computing? References: Message-ID: Thanks for the link, but that is just a reference to the article. I am looking for the original article as found in Creative Computing. The link is for R and the stinepack library which uses the information from that article. I searched and searched google and did not find the article... Ram > Try google lately? > http://rss.acs.unt.edu/Rdoc/library/stinepack/html/stinterp.html -----Original Message----- From: Ram Meenakshisundaram Sent: Sun 3/1/2009 11:30 PM To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: Anyone have this article from Creative Computing? @article{Stineman, author = "Russell W. Stineman ", title = "A Consistently Well Behaved Method of Interpolation", journal = "Creative Computing", year = 1980, volume = 6, number = 7, pages = "54-57" } From richardlynch3 at tx.rr.com Mon Mar 2 21:10:58 2009 From: richardlynch3 at tx.rr.com (Richard Lynch) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:10:58 -0600 Subject: Combined Retro Tech and Vintage Computer Fair In-Reply-To: <01f801c99953$6d7d3ff0$4877bfd0$@com> Message-ID: On 2/27/09 9:19 PM, "Gil Carrick" wrote: > The Arlington Museum of Information Technology (AMIT) is sponsoring the first > annual Vintage > Computer Fair Light - South to be held in conjunction with The 15th annual > Antique Science & > Retro-Tech Show And Swap Meet. The combined event will be held Saturday, March > 14, 2009 at the > Ramada Hotel, Irving, Texas, 4440 W. Airport Freeway. from 10:00 am to 4:00 > pm. Admission is $5. > > AMIT Director Gil Carrick said that this combined event should attract many > visitors who are > interested in displaying their vintage computing artifacts or in buying, > selling, swapping or just > seeing these artifacts. Vintage Computer Fairs have been held in other parts > of the country, but > this will be the first one in the South. Since this is the first of these > events in the region, it > will not feature any speakers and will only last one day - hence the term > "lite." > > Antique Science & Retro-Tech Show And Swap Meet organizer Skip Solberg said > that for a decade and a > half the event has been a favorite spot for fans of this antique gear to show, > sell and swap their > stuff. > > Visitors interested in displaying or selling should contact Skip Solberg at > 817-467-0368 or email > solberg2 at airmail.net for pricing and availability of table space. > > If you'd like more information about the Retro Tech Meet, or to talk with Skip > Solberg, please call > 817-467-0368, email solberg2 at airmail.net or see the web site at > http://www.slideruleguy.com/tx-1q09.htm. > > If you'd like more information about the Vintage Computer Fair, or to talk > with Gil Carrick, please > call 817-994-9213, email amit at tx.rr.com or see the web site at > http://amit-tx.org/. > > -- > A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director > Arlington Museum of Information Technology > 1012 Portofino Drive > Arlington, TX 76012 > Darn it! I've been waiting for this for a long time, but I'll be out of town that weekend :( At least it will give me time to figure out what items to bring to next year's show. For an idea of what I have to choose from, check out the January issue of the Dallas Apple Corps Applegram: http://www.acd.us/applegramjan2009.pdf. A short story on my collection starts on page 6. Richard Lynch From spedraja at ono.com Tue Mar 3 06:59:25 2009 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:59:25 +0100 Subject: Ibm 2970 Message-ID: Hi everybody. I am searching for photos or some information related with the IBM 2970. We used these devices in the beginning of the 70's but actually there is nothing available about them here. Could someone help me with this please ? I would agree it a lot Kind Regards Sergio From steve at radiorobots.com Tue Mar 3 07:44:35 2009 From: steve at radiorobots.com (Steve Stutman) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 08:44:35 -0500 Subject: Cleaning Cases Message-ID: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com> Hi, Any comments on use of peroxide to freshen cases? http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/ I thought many cases were RIM and were something other than ABS as mentioned in link. Steve From blstuart at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 3 08:12:01 2009 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:12:01 -0600 Subject: Anyone have this article from Creative Computing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <71ade7c43f43be4fc66bedd395572440@bellsouth.net> > Subject: Anyone have this article from Creative Computing? > > > @article{Stineman, > author = "Russell W. Stineman ", > title = "A Consistently Well Behaved Method of Interpolation", > journal = "Creative Computing", > year = 1980, > volume = 6, > number = 7, > pages = "54-57" > } I don't have many issues of CC, but amazingly, this is one of the issues I do have. Are you looking to get a copy of the paper? If so, I can try to scan it and send it to you. It might have to wait until next week though, as I'll be at SIGCSE the rest of the week. BLS From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 10:13:37 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:13:37 -0800 Subject: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <01C999E2.99163D80@host-208-72-122-12.dyn.295.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:03:27 -0500 > From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:24 PM, M H Stein wrote: > > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:04:49 -0500 > > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: ---snip--- > > > > FWIW, there were at least two suppliers: initially Condor Inc. supplied one > > (part no. AA524-AIM65)... The Condor 24V supply looks > > like just a half-wave diode, cap and Zener. > Hi Not sure who posted this part. I doubt they are using a single zener to regulate 2.5A. Maybe a zener resistor and transistor but it would be a large zener for that type of current. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Mar 3 10:49:45 2009 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:49:45 -0800 Subject: Last Call: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... Message-ID: <200903030849.45881.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Requests have been "straggling" in just about every day since I made this offer, most for one but some for a number of these boards. In fairness to those who signed up right away (including myself), I am setting a deadline of Thursday, March 5 to get your order in. On Friday, March 6, I will send out an email to all who tentatively said they wanted a/some board(s) on what should be our next step in making this bulk purchase happen. Regards, Lyle ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: More Info RE: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... Date: Thursday 26 February 2009 From: Lyle Bickley To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" I've received a number of responses from folks - and a few questions. Here's answers to the most common questions: 1) Is there a warranty? Yes the boards are guaranteed by the dealer to not be DOA. I just re-checked - and he's agreeable to a 15 day warranty. My guess is that if you went a few more days, he'd cover it - but he would like whoever gets the boards to check them out right away. ALL boards will be pre-tested by the dealer on a QBUS system using RT before shipping. All will have the latest EPROMS. 2) Is it standard QBUS (i.e., not "S") Yes. 3) Is the SCSI port standard 50-pin? Yes. Lyle ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... Date: Thursday 26 February 2009 From: Lyle Bickley To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" I was chatting with a DEC broker recently regarding SCSI controllers for DEC gear - when he mentioned that he had a quantity of Emulex UC07's available. UC07's are QBUS cards which have a single SCSI port and support either MSCP or TMSCP (in RT land, that would be either DU or MU devices). The manual states that the UC07 is compatible with RT, RSX, RSTS/E and Ultrix versions which support MSCP or TMSCP. The dealers initial price was high (as expected). However, he then added - "I'd be willing to do better for hobbyists - as long as they commit that the boards will only be used for hobby purposes - and not for commercial use". So here's the "deal": $235 per UC07 plus shipping from Mountain View, CA (FedEx Ground). I've paid MUCH more for SCSI interfaces for my DEC QBUS and UNIBUS systems - so IMHO, this is a great deal. The broker said he did not want to deal "individually with a bunch of hobbyists" - so he asked if I would be willing to consolodate a single order of UC07's to him. I reluctantly said "yes", as this is not my business and I'm not interested in making money on this deal - only covering costs. To get a sense of interest, please reply to me privately if you'd like one or more if these "critters". The manual for the UC07 is available on bitsavers. A link to a bitsavers mirror is below: http://bitsavers.vt100.net/pdf/emulex/UC0751001-F_UC07_Feb90.pdf Regards, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ------------------------------------------------------- -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ------------------------------------------------------- -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From starmaster at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 11:21:15 2009 From: starmaster at gmail.com (Star Master) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:21:15 -0700 Subject: CueCat wanted!?! Message-ID: <5736e8250903030921o19c8d7betc4eace463b33d534@mail.gmail.com> With the recent talk of CueCat's being used for BarCode scanners, I would love to get my hands on some of them. I had one about a year ago, and it worked awesome! Could scan about any type of BarCode...books, dvd's, cd's. And if you have a database program, such as DVD Profiler, it works great with it! Unfortunately my dear beloved granddaughter decided to 'play' with the CueCat and, sadly, it is no more.... So if anyone has one (or two or three!) either USB or PS2, I would gladly take it off their hands! Email me and we'll work something out! Thanks! From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 3 11:38:51 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:38:51 -0800 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <0KFW00FJX5BDIDN5@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KFW00FJX5BDIDN5@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <49ACFAAB.7681.5229488@cclist.sydex.com> There is/was an IEEE standard for the S-100 bus; why not hew to that, regarding supply voltages? If I were designing new "retro" boards today, however, I'd go with one of the switching regulators that can be had in TO-220 packages. Basically the same appearance as the veneered and generated 7805, but far more efficient. Cheers, Chuck From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Tue Mar 3 13:08:34 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:08:34 -0800 Subject: CueCat wanted!?! References: <5736e8250903030921o19c8d7betc4eace463b33d534@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901c99c33$73a26ee0$0201a8c0@hal9000> Once again the infamous where are you located ???? Best regards, Steven > With the recent talk of CueCat's being used for BarCode scanners, I would > love to get my hands on some of them. > I had one about a year ago, and it worked awesome! Could scan about any type > of BarCode...books, dvd's, cd's. And if you have a database program, such as > DVD Profiler, it works great with it! > > Unfortunately my dear beloved granddaughter decided to 'play' with the > CueCat and, sadly, it is no more.... > > So if anyone has one (or two or three!) either USB or PS2, I would gladly > take it off their hands! Email me and we'll work something out! > > Thanks! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 13:12:34 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:12:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Facit 4070 paper tape punch In-Reply-To: <20090302203344.GB30219@n0jcf.net> from "Chris Elmquist" at Mar 2, 9 02:33:44 pm Message-ID: > I have this same issue for the GNT 3601 punch that I recently obtained. > There must have been some people out there that had a fetish for chad > boxes :-) I think it's more that the chad box is easily removable for emptying, so it tends to fall off and get lost when the punch is no longer in use. > > I intend to make a prototype using Origami techniques-- ie, cut and > fold some manila folder cardboard to get the dimensions just right-- > and then when I get a round tuit, I'll perhaps make a plastic one. > A cardboard one will be way better than vacuuming up the chad from the > shop floor as I am doing now though. Sure. Just about anything will do. I've used all sorts of small containers as a temporary measure. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 13:22:17 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:22:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <49AC8A78.7080105@gmail.com> from "Jules Richardson" at Mar 2, 9 07:40:08 pm Message-ID: > > Richard wrote: > > Well, the previous discussions along this line talked about removing > > the laminated front with a nichrome wire. I believe at least one list > > member reported using this technique. > > I did it with an HP-250, but that was for a non-functional system (i.e. it > needed to look as nice as possible, but increased implosion risk was not a I hope that machines is not on public display anywhere. If that CRT implodes you could have _big_ problems... I don't see it matters where the machine is goign to be powered up or not. The imposion risk is there allthe time. > factor) - hence there's currently just an air gap between CRT and faceplate on > that particular machine. For that tiny screen, I got enough juice (just) from > a plain old PC power supply to cut through the failed sealant. > > (One day that machine almost certainly will get restored to working order, but > not in the near future I suspect) Pity... I believe it's quite an interesting machine. > > > Maybe there's an easy way to keep the thickenss uniform and then you can > > repair the safety as well as the appearance. > > Personally I've used a lot of 70s and later machines and never known a tube > implode - I think for my own use I'd be tempted not to screw around with Nor have I (and I've got CRTs a lot older than that). But it must be a risk -- after all TVs had imposion screens going back at least to the 1950's, and there was much liess of a 'safety culture' back then. But I guess the danger was enough for manufacturers to do something about it. The pre-WW2 UK TVs, which often haf the (small deflection angle) CRT mounted vertically and an inclined mirror in the lid of the cabinet to view it by, didn't have imposion protection AFAIK. I wonder if experience from WW2 had something to do with it -- I am told there were injories caused to airbourne radar operators who were looking down a viewing hood at the radar CRT, the plane had a heaving landing, was shot at, etc, and the CRT imploded. > replacing the sealant (subject to next owner knowing what they were getting, > of course). I wouldn't want to risk it for anything "public" though. Well, I am not a particulalrly safety-concious person, I will work on CRTs, etc with no problems. But I wouldn't want to sit in front of a CRT where the implosion protection had been downgraded. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 13:08:38 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:08:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: YouTube video to repair screen rot In-Reply-To: <20090302113703.O68228@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 2, 9 11:40:25 am Message-ID: > The adhesives used to stick lens elements together are not likely to have > the strength to provide implosion safety. I was thinking of things like the UV-curing resins, not Canada Balsam. > > > But, y'know, there used to be an optical adhesive with plenty of strength. > They used to use it between CRTs and their faceplates. Unfortunately, > sometimes it would degrade over time. Well 'time' would seem to be 10's of years, and I don;t think having to rebond a CRT every few decades is a big problem. So where do we get such adhesives? -tony From alexeyt at freeshell.org Tue Mar 3 13:26:34 2009 From: alexeyt at freeshell.org (Alexey Toptygin) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:26:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Interesting mix... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, Gene Buckle wrote: > This gent scratch built a Z-80 based CP/M machine and then attached an INMOS > transputer chip to it: > > http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=71349&start=0> &t=71349&start=0 Grr, I am so jealous! I have half a dozen transputers of various models, stacks of technical manuals and even a C004 crossbar chip, but no C011 or C012 to interface to any of them through... Does anyone have contact info for this gilesgoat fellow? Does anyone have an Inmos C011 or C012 they'd be willing to part with? Alexey From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 3 13:53:59 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:53:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Interesting mix... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Alexey Toptygin wrote: > On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, Gene Buckle wrote: > >> This gent scratch built a Z-80 based CP/M machine and then attached an >> INMOS transputer chip to it: >> >> http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=71349&start=0> &t=71349&start=0 > > Grr, I am so jealous! I have half a dozen transputers of various models, > stacks of technical manuals and even a C004 crossbar chip, but no C011 or > C012 to interface to any of them through... > > Does anyone have contact info for this gilesgoat fellow? > For those that want to contact him directly, email me off list and I'll provide you his email address. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Tue Mar 3 14:08:20 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:08:20 -0300 Subject: Cleaning Cases References: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com> Message-ID: <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara> > Any comments on use of peroxide to freshen cases? > http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/ > I thought many cases were RIM and were something other than ABS as > mentioned in link. I'm...AMAZED!!!!!! :oO But what is the oxy thing? I want to do that in Brazil, I can find the peroxide and the UV lamp (my eprom eraser will have a utility again eh eh eh) the xanthar gun maybe I can find, but what about the oxy? From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 3 14:27:34 2009 From: arcarlini at iee.org (arcarlini at iee.org) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:27:34 -0000 Subject: Cleaning Cases In-Reply-To: <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <0F7989D202664EFDBD704B277754BB23@AntonioPC> cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org wrote: > But what is the oxy thing? http://www.oxiclean.com/default2.asp Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 14:35:44 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:35:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Interesting mix... In-Reply-To: from "Alexey Toptygin" at Mar 3, 9 07:26:34 pm Message-ID: > Grr, I am so jealous! I have half a dozen transputers of various models, > stacks of technical manuals and even a C004 crossbar chip, but no C011 > or C012 to interface to any of them through... In theory you can manage without one. The first Inmos transputer boards -- the ones used in the ITEM -- didn't make use of the link adapter chip chip (I was told the transputer was available before the link adapter chip). What they did was to map a serial chip (normal asynchronous thing) into the transputer's address space. Buffer that to RS232 levels to talk to the host system. And configure the transputer to boot from external ROM (not the built-in bootstrap-from-a-link). There were EPROMs on the board containing enough code toboot the transputer from the serial port. And of course you you sue the 4 links of that transputer to connect to others. Writing the necessary transputer bootstrap program is left as an exercise :-) -tony From alexeyt at freeshell.org Tue Mar 3 15:42:38 2009 From: alexeyt at freeshell.org (Alexey Toptygin) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:42:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Interesting mix... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Tony Duell wrote: >> Grr, I am so jealous! I have half a dozen transputers of various models, >> stacks of technical manuals and even a C004 crossbar chip, but no C011 >> or C012 to interface to any of them through... > > In theory you can manage without one. The first Inmos transputer boards > -- the ones used in the ITEM -- didn't make use of the link adapter chip > chip (I was told the transputer was available before the link adapter > chip). > > What they did was to map a serial chip (normal asynchronous thing) into > the transputer's address space. Buffer that to RS232 levels to talk to > the host system. And configure the transputer to boot from external ROM > (not the built-in bootstrap-from-a-link). There were EPROMs on the board > containing enough code toboot the transputer from the serial port. And > of course you you sue the 4 links of that transputer to connect to others. Judging by the description of the link interface and the memory interface in the reference literature I have, I think it would be easier to hack up a transputer link than a memory-mapped device (mostly because of much lower wire count). Some people on the internet claim to have done this in an FPGA, and there is source for one here: http://www.cate.com.au/download/fpga/index.html I would rather avoid that route, but it looks like it might be my only option. Alexey From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 3 16:24:42 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:24:42 -0800 Subject: Cleaning Cases In-Reply-To: <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara> References: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com>, <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49AD3DAA.6474.6283249@cclist.sydex.com> On 3 Mar 2009 at 17:08, Alexandre Souza wrote: > But what is the oxy thing? I want to do that in Brazil, I can find the > peroxide and the UV lamp (my eprom eraser will have a utility again eh eh > eh) the xanthar gun maybe I can find, but what about the oxy? It's "oxiclean", not "oxyclean". The former is an oxygen-based bleach, the latter, chlorine. The active ingredient in "Oxiclean" is sodium percarbonate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate An EPROM eraser? What, the sun doesn't shine in Brazil? ;<) Cheers, Chuck From dm561 at torfree.net Tue Mar 3 16:47:43 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:47:43 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? Message-ID: <01C99C28.2A5AFA00@host-208-72-122-126.dyn.295.ca> ------------Original Message: Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:13:37 -0800 From: dwight elvey Subject: RE: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:24 PM, M H Stein wrote: > > FWIW, there were at least two suppliers: initially Condor Inc. supplied one > > (part no. AA524-AIM65)... The Condor 24V supply looks > > like just a half-wave diode, cap and Zener. > Hi Not sure who posted this part. I doubt they are using a single zener to regulate 2.5A. Maybe a zener resistor and transistor but it would be a large zener for that type of current. Dwight -------------Reply: Guilty as charged; I can't trace the circuit or read the diode number, but on closer perusal it is probably a reverse voltage protection diode across the output, and the 24V is completely unregulated. And that same closer perusal reveals a few more diodes, so it looks like a full-wave rectified supply after all. My point was that it's a really basic linear supply; transformer, 4 diodes and a 2200/35 cap (and that diode and a bleeder resistor). Incidentally, these printers were also used in a small National printing calculator, in case you run across one somewhere. mike From dm561 at torfree.net Tue Mar 3 16:55:26 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:55:26 -0500 Subject: CueCat wanted!?! Message-ID: <01C99C29.44B87020@host-208-72-122-126.dyn.295.ca> --------------------------Original Message: Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:21:15 -0700 From: Star Master Subject: CueCat wanted!?! With the recent talk of CueCat's being used for BarCode scanners, I would love to get my hands on some of them. I had one about a year ago, and it worked awesome! Could scan about any type of BarCode...books, dvd's, cd's. And if you have a database program, such as DVD Profiler, it works great with it! Unfortunately my dear beloved granddaughter decided to 'play' with the CueCat and, sadly, it is no more.... So if anyone has one (or two or three!) either USB or PS2, I would gladly take it off their hands! Email me and we'll work something out! Thanks! --------------------------Reply: $5.95 too much for ya? http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/category/POS000 Also often seen on eBay... mike From tpeters at mixcom.com Tue Mar 3 17:25:43 2009 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:25:43 -0600 Subject: Cleaning Cases In-Reply-To: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090303172202.0b898ea0@localhost> 'ere, these gents dicuss in some detail their method of whitening and brightening in the article called "Open source computer polish: Retr0Brite" Read all about it: Including more comments http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/02/open-source-computer.html Excerpts: The Retr0brite Project is an open-source effort to develop the world's finest vintage computer polish, to whiten up the yellowing chassis of your old Amigas and such. ?The problem was finally cracked in late July 2008 with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide, a small amount of an ?Oxy? laundry booster as a catalyst and a UV lamp. Proof of this concept was demonstrated on EAB by Tonyyeb from Hull, UK, Chiark from Leeds, UK and myself. At 08:44 AM 3/3/2009 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >Any comments on use of peroxide to freshen cases? > >http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/ ----- 893. Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. -- Mark Twain --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531 From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Tue Mar 3 18:03:57 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:03:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Cleaning Cases In-Reply-To: <49AD3DAA.6474.6283249@cclist.sydex.com> References: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com>, <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara> <49AD3DAA.6474.6283249@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 3 Mar 2009 at 17:08, Alexandre Souza wrote: > >> But what is the oxy thing? I want to do that in Brazil, I can find the >> peroxide and the UV lamp (my eprom eraser will have a utility again eh eh >> eh) the xanthar gun maybe I can find, but what about the oxy? > > It's "oxiclean", not "oxyclean". The former is an oxygen-based > bleach, the latter, chlorine. The active ingredient in "Oxiclean" is > sodium percarbonate: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate > > An EPROM eraser? What, the sun doesn't shine in Brazil? ;<) The crucial component of whatever the oxy/oxi stuff is TAED. It just so happens that oxi is a more convenient source of TAED. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Tue Mar 3 18:11:00 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:11:00 -0300 Subject: Cleaning Cases References: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com>, <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara> <49AD3DAA.6474.6283249@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <00be01c99c5e$9eaff3c0$279e19bb@DeskJara> > It's "oxiclean", not "oxyclean". The former is an oxygen-based > bleach, the latter, chlorine. The active ingredient in "Oxiclean" is > sodium percarbonate: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate Hmmm...I think it will be hard to find in Brazil :o( > An EPROM eraser? What, the sun doesn't shine in Brazil? ;<) You cannot imagine how much. I just moved, now I'm living some 150meters from the beach. I never been in a place so hot. 40 degrees (celsius) all day long, the place is SO hot I cannot stand staying outside the house (and the air conditioned) for much time. From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 3 18:17:57 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:17:57 -0800 Subject: Cleaning Cases In-Reply-To: References: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com>, <49AD3DAA.6474.6283249@cclist.sydex.com>, Message-ID: <49AD5835.22391.6900285@cclist.sydex.com> On 3 Mar 2009 at 16:03, David Griffith wrote: > The crucial component of whatever the oxy/oxi stuff is TAED. It just so > happens that oxi is a more convenient source of TAED. As I said, the "Oxyclean" stuff is sodium hypochlorite with potassium hydroxide (according to the MSDS). Not what you want to use on your gear. Interesting that the process involves a generated component, peracetic acid, however. I use PAA (made with acetic acid, hydrogen peroxide and sulfuric acid) to clean lead stains from silverplate. I wonder if the raw stuff would work as a de-yellower instead of depending on TAED? Cheers, Chuck From alexeyt at freeshell.org Tue Mar 3 19:41:04 2009 From: alexeyt at freeshell.org (Alexey Toptygin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 01:41:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Interesting mix... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Alexey Toptygin wrote: > wire count). Some people on the internet claim to have done this in an FPGA, > and there is source for one here: > > http://www.cate.com.au/download/fpga/index.html > > I would rather avoid that route, but it looks like it might be my only > option. The gentleman that wrote the article that started this thread pointed me at his source; it turns out that C011s are for sale on ebay.co.uk: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMSC011E20S-INMOS-Link-Chip-Transputer-use-New_W0QQite mZ230324751434QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET?ha sh=item230324751434&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3 A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 there's 3 more left from that seller, if anyone wants one. Now I need to design a board based on this chip... can anyone recommend any books or other sources that teach ISA and/or PCI device design? I know how to solder and use a scope (and I could probably hack up a linux driver for whatever I make), but I've never designed or built a circuit with more than 3 transistors :-/ Alexey From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 19:56:47 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:56:47 -0800 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <49AC2CBF.3050905@flippers.com> References: <6FB56B9FDD5B49A78CDD0BB4DD3B4BF5@andrewdesktop> <49AC2CBF.3050905@flippers.com> Message-ID: > From: jrr at flippers.com > While I do not know all the ranges of voltages folks here are dealing > with on many classic computers I can assure everyone that putting in > devices called "Tranzorbs/Transorbs" for machines running with Linear > Power Supplies (not as required for switching supplies) may protect your > computer from problems with linear power supplies that do not have > output voltage protection. > > In the old days the manufacturers often used devices called "Crowbars" > that would literally short out the outputs of the supply if the output > voltage rose past a predefined point. This would protect the downstream > components from most power supply issues. > > Lots of folks here are in areas with less than perfectly regulated mains > and Transorbs can also smooth down momentary surges. > > Transorbs can be found with many suppliers and they can easily be added > to most power supplies - if you are concerned that the Transorb will > burn out (perhaps those 100A 5VDC rails) then you can put a few in and a > fuse between the supply and the Transorb (and load). The fuse should > blow before the Transorb explodes... > > MOVs on the line input can protect your devices from lightning strikes, > etc. and are contained in good quality surge suppression protection > extension cords or UPS supplies. > > John :-#)# Hi If you have multiple transformers on the same switched line feeding multiple solid state loads you must put something like a MOV on the input line to protect things. I learned this the hard way. Transformer coils can hold quite a bit of energy. If the switch opens with the maximum current flowing, there will be a voltage spike. The weakest link in the system must absorb this. In most cases of a single transformer, the load is usually enough to take a small surge. With multiple transformers, it will be the weakest link. An input capacitor will help but this also increases the rating of the power switch needed. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From mikelee at tdh.com Tue Mar 3 21:29:23 2009 From: mikelee at tdh.com (Michael Lee) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:29:23 -0600 Subject: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix Message-ID: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> Hi, I recently picked up in a lot of other stuff four DC600 tapes which is an interesting mix. I have no idea what systems they are for, maybe you do or have a need for such? Stardent 2.2 Diagnostics 1989-Part #125-0023-06 Kubota Pacific Computer 2.5 Diagnostics 1992-Part #125-0023-11 An unlabeled Tektronics tape, and another unlabeled 3M one. Mike From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 22:08:06 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:08:06 -0500 Subject: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix In-Reply-To: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Michael Lee wrote: > Hi, > > I recently picked up in a lot of other stuff four DC600 tapes which is an > interesting mix. I have no idea what systems they are for, maybe you do or > have a need for such? > Kubota Pacific Computer 2.5 Diagnostics > 1992-Part #125-0023-11 Long ago (about when that tape was cut), I was involved with an art group called "Softworks". I helped them out with some joystick issues with an installation at the Wexner Center called "The Emporer's Message". It was a narrative virtual world, rendered by a Kubota. As I recall, it was really an Alpha box running OSF/1 with some custom graphics hardware bolted on the side. That one was the only Kubota computer I ever saw (but I did see some earthmoving equipment with the same logo on it some years later). Dunno who could use such a thing, but if I owned a Kubota, I'd want a copy of that. -ethan From rborsuk at colourfull.com Tue Mar 3 22:43:45 2009 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:43:45 -0500 Subject: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix In-Reply-To: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> Message-ID: <8AA6BF80-C9AD-4160-9A21-1D2AE8F55A28@colourfull.com> Interesting. Took some power googling but I found a pic http://www.peekpoke.hr/index.php?cent=news&start=22 and naturally a wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardent_Inc. Cool stuff. Rob On Mar 3, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Michael Lee wrote: > Hi, > > I recently picked up in a lot of other stuff four DC600 tapes which > is an interesting mix. I have no idea what systems they are for, > maybe you do or have a need for such? > > > Stardent 2.2 Diagnostics > 1989-Part #125-0023-06 > > Kubota Pacific Computer 2.5 Diagnostics > 1992-Part #125-0023-11 > > An unlabeled Tektronics tape, and another unlabeled 3M one. > > > Mike > Rob Borsuk email: rborsuk at colourfull.com Colourfull Creations Web: http://www.colourfull.com From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Tue Mar 3 22:58:14 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:58:14 -0800 Subject: Recommendations for AIM-65 power supply? In-Reply-To: <49A97A02.25206.5E754E00@cclist.sydex.com> References: <01C999E2.99163D80@host-208-72-122-12.dyn.295.ca> <49A97A02.25206.5E754E00@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <49AE0A66.8000907@mail.msu.edu> Excellent -- that looks perfect for my needs, I've ordered one. Thanks for finding that... I'd looked on mouser & digi-key but wasn't having much luck finding something that wasn't $150 :). Josh Chuck Guzis wrote: > Jameco lists several supplies that might work if all you need is +5 > and +24. Stock no. 194897 shows +5 at 3.5A and +24 at 2A for about > $33. > > Jameco also has an interactive on-line product selector. > > Anotehr alternative is to scavenge an old linear PSU from an 8" > floppy box. These supply +5 and +24 at pretty hefty currents. > > --Chuck > > > > From rdawson16 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 23:04:26 2009 From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:04:26 -0600 Subject: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix In-Reply-To: <8AA6BF80-C9AD-4160-9A21-1D2AE8F55A28@colourfull.com> References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> <8AA6BF80-C9AD-4160-9A21-1D2AE8F55A28@colourfull.com> Message-ID: And there is this book: The Architecture of Supercomputers: Titan, a Case Study (Hardcover)http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0126430608 In my other career as a computer graphics guru I had one of these machines. For a while, at the back gate to the Johnson Space Center my little consulting office was the gathering point, and we socialized around this toy. I used this and some robotics to essentially play a phonograph record by looking at images of its surface. This was for a oil well mechanical caliper that recorded its data on a Edison-like metal cylinder to monitor corrosion. No electronics could survive this environment of 300C so the engineers came up with this amazing recorder. I built the playback machine. I have fond memories late at night, just me and this machine, coding away. Randy > From: rborsuk at colourfull.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:43:45 -0500 > Subject: Re: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix > > Interesting. Took some power googling but I found a pic > > http://www.peekpoke.hr/index.php?cent=news&start=22 > > and naturally a wikipedia article > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardent_Inc. > > Cool stuff. > > Rob > > > On Mar 3, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Michael Lee wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I recently picked up in a lot of other stuff four DC600 tapes which > > is an interesting mix. I have no idea what systems they are for, > > maybe you do or have a need for such? > > > > > > Stardent 2.2 Diagnostics > > 1989-Part #125-0023-06 > > > > Kubota Pacific Computer 2.5 Diagnostics > > 1992-Part #125-0023-11 > > > > An unlabeled Tektronics tape, and another unlabeled 3M one. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Rob Borsuk > email: rborsuk at colourfull.com > Colourfull Creations > Web: http://www.colourfull.com > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Tue Mar 3 23:07:14 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:07:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Xerox 8010 disks Message-ID: Here's a list of the Xerox 8010 disks I have. I'm offering them first to the Computer History Museum by way of Al Kossow whereupon they should be imaged and made available to all. And now, the list. 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 BP Help Documents 1Q87 120K17651 VP Spreadsheet 1.1 2Q86 130K02312 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Installer 4Q86 130K01773 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 VM Checker 4Q86 130K19480 8000 Series Rigid Disk Diagnostics (10, 29, and 42MB) 7.1 4Q85 130K01831 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Local RS232C Communication Access 4Q86 130K24940 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Local RS232C Communication Access 4Q86 130K24940 8010 VP NetCom 1.1.2 (Common Software) 1Q87 130K02033 VP Data-Driven Graphics (Bar, Pie, Line) 1.1 2Q86 130K02201 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Remote System Administration 1Q87 130K02803 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Remote System Administration 1Q87 130K02803 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Remote System Administration 1Q87 130K02803 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Remote System Administration 1Q87 130K02803 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Remote System Administration 4Q86 130K02803 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.2 Remote System Administration 4Q86 130K02803 VP File Conversion of 860 Documents 1.1 2Q86 130K06912 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 (Essential Applications) 2Q86 130K01812 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 (Essential Applications) 2Q86 130K01812 8010 VP NetCom 1.1 Network Installation Scripts 2Q86 130K02042 VP List Manager 1.1 2Q86 130K02261 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 (File Check) 2Q86 130K01851 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 (File Check) 2Q86 130K01851 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.6 (Common Software) #4 of 5 1Q87 130K01804 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1.6 (Common Software) #4 of 5 1Q87 130K01804 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #1 4Q86 130K01783 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 (Basic Workstation #2) #3 of 5 1Q87 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 (Basic Workstation #1) #2 of 5 1Q87 130K01783 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 VP Object Conversion Utility 2Q86 130K01822 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 VP Object Conversion Utility 2Q86 130K01822 VP Document Editor 1.1.2 1Q87 130K02123 VP Document Editor 1.1.2 1Q87 130K02123 VP Training Exercises #1 2Q86 130K01842 VP Training Exercises #2 2Q86 130K17071 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 8010 Xerox ViewPoint 1.1 Basic Workstation #2 4Q86 130K01793 -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Tue Mar 3 23:50:17 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 02:50:17 -0300 Subject: 65C02 (atari) et al References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> Message-ID: <020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> Dear friends Anyone with a spare 65C02, the special type used in the Atari 800 and the Atari 5200? Thanks Alexandre From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 00:33:49 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:33:49 -0800 Subject: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix In-Reply-To: <8AA6BF80-C9AD-4160-9A21-1D2AE8F55A28@colourfull.com> References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com>, <8AA6BF80-C9AD-4160-9A21-1D2AE8F55A28@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <49ADB04D.21826.7E8319A@cclist.sydex.com> On 3 Mar 2009 at 23:43, Robert Borsuk wrote: > Interesting. Took some power googling but I found a pic > > http://www.peekpoke.hr/index.php?cent=news&start=22 > > and naturally a wikipedia article > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardent_Inc. > > Cool stuff. Sort of. Find me a tape from a machine from Saxpy computers and I'll sit up and take notice (odd that WP doesn't even have an article for them). A story worthy of soap opera. Cheers, Chuck From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Wed Mar 4 01:03:33 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:03:33 -0800 Subject: 65C02 (atari) et al References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> <020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <001101c99c97$54f97880$0201a8c0@hal9000> Were are you located ?? Are you certain you don't mean a 6502C ? Best regards, Steven > Dear friends > > Anyone with a spare 65C02, the special type used in the Atari 800 and > the Atari 5200? > > Thanks > Alexandre From rtellason at verizon.net Wed Mar 4 01:09:59 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:09:59 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <0KFW00FJX5BDIDN5@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KFW00FJX5BDIDN5@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <200903040209.59334.rtellason@verizon.net> On Monday 02 March 2009 01:15:19 pm Allison wrote: > Some S100 chassis had multiple primary taps, CVT or a in the case of > Inetgrand {and a few others} boxes regulators. > > The problem is the early machines had to have really robust transformers > as the +8V bus could easily be 25A using early boards. By 1980s with > 64k ram cards (64k on one card) and multi serial IOs on one board a > typical system might take from 3-5 board at far lower current than the > earlier 4k ot 8k based memory systems. The side effect fo that was the > bus voltages being upregulated would float higher and regulators would > run really hot. Near the latter days typcail systems were system on a > card (z80, 64k or even 128k, 2 serial, FDC and printer port) making the > whole load typically under 3-4A at +8V and the need for more boards > unlikely. I also remember seeing boards that didn't have onboard regulators, though there were positions for them. Those contained wire jumpers, and heatsinks were omitted, the main PS having been replaced with a regulated switching PS... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From derschjo at msu.edu Tue Mar 3 17:46:46 2009 From: derschjo at msu.edu (derschjo at msu.edu) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:46:46 -0500 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay Message-ID: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Item 150330289821.? A bit expensive for my tastes.? Makes me wish I was independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements for such a beast :). From csquared3 at tx.rr.com Tue Mar 3 19:03:58 2009 From: csquared3 at tx.rr.com (CSquared) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:03:58 -0600 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? Message-ID: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:41:14 -0800 Rich Alderson said: >> From: CSquared >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:53 PM >> I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer >> actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. >> I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers >> how many columns those cards were blessed with. > Univac 90-column cards are Hollerith cards just like the "IBM" cards. > They consist of upper and lower groups of 45 columns of 6 round punches > (instead of the rectangular punches favoured by IBM). Interesting. I don't know how I remembered the 90 columns as I never worked with a Univac computer - only IBM's and various minis which mostly didn't even have punched card readers at all. I'm not real sure I've ever even seen one of the Univac punched cards. Your description of the hole grouping sounds like maybe they encoded characters as 6-bit codes vs. the "12-1 is an A", "12-2 is a B" scheme used by IBM. I'm not real sure that's even correct either - it's been a right good while. Later, Charlie Carothers -- My email address is csquared3 at tx dot rr dot com From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 4 02:04:14 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 03:04:14 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <49ACFAAB.7681.5229488@cclist.sydex.com> References: <0KFW00FJX5BDIDN5@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> <49ACFAAB.7681.5229488@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <8B15572F-7D6D-422C-82FC-ACF5950D5BB9@neurotica.com> On Mar 3, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > If I were designing new "retro" boards today, however, I'd go with > one of the switching regulators that can be had in TO-220 packages. > Basically the same appearance as the veneered and generated 7805, but > far more efficient. My favorite one of those, the PowerTrends/TI PT78ST105, doesn't look much like a TO-220, but it'll mount in that footprint. I sure do like those. Instant efficiency upgrade! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Wed Mar 4 02:07:01 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 05:07:01 -0300 Subject: Cleaning Cases References: <49AD3443.10101@radiorobots.com>, <1d3101c99c3d$a47bba80$86a819bb@DeskJara><49AD3DAA.6474.6283249@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <033a01c99ca1$38e26a80$279e19bb@DeskJara> > The crucial component of whatever the oxy/oxi stuff is TAED. It just so > happens that oxi is a more convenient source of TAED. Nice that I found all components in Brazil, I'll buy it today (now is 05:06a here) and try! :oD From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Wed Mar 4 02:08:26 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 05:08:26 -0300 Subject: 65C02 (atari) et al References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com><020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> <001101c99c97$54f97880$0201a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <033b01c99ca1$4b25b580$279e19bb@DeskJara> > Were are you located ?? Are you certain you don't mean a 6502C ? Maybe I just got it wrong, I think it is a 6502C indeed. I have a very nice Atari 5200 which processor went south, I'd love to have one of that. I live in Brazil, a bit far away :) From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Wed Mar 4 02:41:07 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:41:07 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> Message-ID: <49AE3EA2.974B1BC3@cs.ubc.ca> CSquared wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:41:14 -0800 Rich Alderson said: > > >> From: CSquared > >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:53 PM > > >> I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer > >> actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. > >> I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers > >> how many columns those cards were blessed with. > > > Univac 90-column cards are Hollerith cards just like the "IBM" cards. > > They consist of upper and lower groups of 45 columns of 6 round punches > > (instead of the rectangular punches favoured by IBM). > > Interesting. I don't know how I remembered the 90 columns as I never > worked with a Univac computer - only IBM's and various minis which mostly > didn't even have punched card readers at all. I'm not real sure I've > ever even seen one of the Univac punched cards. Your description > of the hole grouping sounds like maybe they encoded characters as > 6-bit codes vs. the "12-1 is an A", "12-2 is a B" scheme used by IBM. > I'm not real sure that's even correct either - it's been a right good while. It doesn't present the full encoding but there is a picture and some more info here: http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/cards.html The labelling on the card suggests the numeric digits were punched in biquinary format. I'm going to guess that that goes back to the origins of that card type when only numeric data where utilised, and that alpha & punctuation were added later, using the remaining 6-bit binary patterns. From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Wed Mar 4 03:25:22 2009 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:25:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: Can I use a M9302 with a PDP 11/35? In-Reply-To: References: <420811.11206.qm@web56201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Henk Gooijen wrote: >> Before I do it - I thought I should ask :) Can I use a >> M9302 as a UNIBUS terminator in a PDP 11/35 or 11/40. >> > I don't know if you can put the M9302 in the 11/35 ... The M9302 is a direct replacement for the M930 for Unibus. I have one in my 11/45 and it just do its job. Of course you can't put the M9302 in an RK05 as terminator, there you really need the M930. Instead of the M9302 you could also use a M9312 bootstrap/terminator card. Christian From jbglaw at lug-owl.de Wed Mar 4 03:53:06 2009 From: jbglaw at lug-owl.de (Jan-Benedict Glaw) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:53:06 +0100 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <20090304095306.GA14089@lug-owl.de> On Tue, 2009-03-03 18:46:46 -0500, derschjo at msu.edu wrote: > Item 150330289821.? A bit expensive for my tastes.? Makes me wish I > was independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements > for such a beast :). I'd *love* to get it, but that's clearly not within my money budget. Though I'd even offer to run it regularly :) MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481 Signature of: Alles wird gut! ...und heute wirds schon ein bi?chen besser. the second : From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Mar 4 04:33:18 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:33:18 +0000 Subject: Stardent - Kubota Pacfic - Tektronix In-Reply-To: References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> Message-ID: <1236162798.7875.36.camel@elric> On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 23:08 -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote: > graphics hardware bolted on the side. That one was the only Kubota > computer I ever saw (but I did see some earthmoving equipment with the > same logo on it some years later). I've dealt with plenty of Kubota diesels in the past. Cue the jokes about the computer division going bust because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil. Gordon From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Wed Mar 4 05:07:10 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:07:10 +0100 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20090304095306.GA14089@lug-owl.de> References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> <20090304095306.GA14089@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: <4D92675EC3A84BB29572DB19CE8CB110@xp1800> Yep, but look who's selling it... Rec#*#!goods They always think, they're selling the ultimate collectors item, no fun at all those. $200..1000 is more realistic for this kind of iron ;-) -Rik > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Jan-Benedict Glaw > Verzonden: woensdag 4 maart 2009 10:53 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Onderwerp: Re: VAX 11/780 on eBay > > On Tue, 2009-03-03 18:46:46 -0500, derschjo at msu.edu > wrote: > > Item 150330289821.? A bit expensive for my tastes.? Makes me wish I > > was independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements > > for such a beast :). > > I'd *love* to get it, but that's clearly not within my money budget. > Though I'd even offer to run it regularly :) > > MfG, JBG > > -- > Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de > +49-172-7608481 > Signature of: Alles wird gut! ...und heute wirds > schon ein bi?chen besser. > the second : > From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Wed Mar 4 05:49:13 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 06:49:13 -0500 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: > Item 150330289821.? A bit expensive for my tastes.? Makes me wish I was > independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements for > such a beast :). No console? And maybe a missing board or two on the left side, isn't that the CPU side? paul From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Mar 4 06:23:00 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 07:23:00 -0500 Subject: rsts/e 7.2 tape images? Message-ID: <12297.1236169380@mini> I see someone is selling physical 9-track backups of rsts/e v7.2 RL02's on ebay. that's cool. Does anyone have tape images of RSTS/E 7.2? I've seen 7.0 and 9+ but I'd like 7.2 for uda50 support. I've seen one on the web but it says the tape had read errors. -brad From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Mar 4 08:22:12 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel - Atarimuseum) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:22:12 -0500 Subject: 65C02 (atari) et al In-Reply-To: <020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> <020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49AE8E94.3090900@atarimuseum.com> Actually the 800 uses a standard 6502, the XL/XE series computers would use the custom Atari version 6502C (not a 65C02) Curt Alexandre Souza wrote: > > Dear friends > > Anyone with a spare 65C02, the special type used in the Atari 800 > and the Atari 5200? > > Thanks > Alexandre > From IanK at vulcan.com Wed Mar 4 10:17:24 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:17:24 -0800 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu>, Message-ID: It's definitely missing the LSI-11 console machine as well as the RX01 boot floppy. It looks like one of the CPU boards is mis-seated, which is nearly impossible to accomplish - so I don't quite understand the photo of the cardcage. It's possible the CPU is incomplete, although it is true there are a couple of empty slots in the 11/785 CPU. And yes, the price seems a bit inflated, even were it a complete machine. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning [Paul_Koning at dell.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:49 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: VAX 11/780 on eBay > Item 150330289821. A bit expensive for my tastes. Makes me wish I was > independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements for > such a beast :). No console? And maybe a missing board or two on the left side, isn't that the CPU side? paul From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Mar 4 10:30:00 2009 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:30:00 -0800 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: Given that it's only the CPU an no I/O it's not really all that interesting. If anyone wants something closer to being complete let me know. I have several 11/78x left. I'll give you a deal!! :-) TTFN - Guy On Mar 3, 2009, at 3:46 PM, derschjo at msu.edu wrote: > Item 150330289821. A bit expensive for my tastes. Makes me wish I > was independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements > for such a beast :). > From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 12:49:02 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:49:02 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> Message-ID: <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> On 3 Mar 2009 at 19:03, CSquared wrote: > Interesting. I don't know how I remembered the 90 columns as I never > worked with a Univac computer - only IBM's and various minis which mostly > didn't even have punched card readers at all. I'm not real sure I've > ever even seen one of the Univac punched cards. Your description > of the hole grouping sounds like maybe they encoded characters as > 6-bit codes vs. the "12-1 is an A", "12-2 is a B" scheme used by IBM. > I'm not real sure that's even correct either - it's been a right good while. I remember the 90 column Univac format, but also remember that Univac at a very early date also offered 80 column compatibility. Sometimes that meant selling a completely different computer system, not just peripherals (e.g. the SS 80 vs. the SS 90 systems). I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I trust someone has mentioned the 96 column System/3 mini-card: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/codes/96col.html Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. Cheers, Chuck From wdonzelli at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 13:24:27 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:24:27 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: > Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. Who used a 60 column format? I have a standard sized IBM punch card with the usual printing for 80 columns, but also for 60 columns. ??? -- Will From wdonzelli at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 13:51:13 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:51:13 -0500 Subject: Eastbound hauling Message-ID: I will be on the West Coast (San Diego thru the Bay Area) in early May, driving with my trailer and van (I do this every year). In order to fund the trip, I offer moving services basically across the country, back to New York and points between. I can move rather large machines - two caccooned six foot racks can ride on my trailer, plus maybe a rack in the back of my van. I can also move terminals, drives, whatever. My trip westbound is pretty full from New York to Boulder, CO. There is a possibility of westbound movement from Boulder to California. Please contact me off list. Sooner is better than later. -- Will From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 13:58:35 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:58:35 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com>, Message-ID: <49AE6CEB.11601.AC8D10B@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 14:24, William Donzelli wrote: > > Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. > > Who used a 60 column format? I have a standard sized IBM punch card > with the usual printing for 80 columns, but also for 60 columns. ??? Trick question! The IBM interpreters (552,557) could print only 60 columns across a card, because of the width of the characters. So if you were doing all 80 columns, you got two rows of characters. Some cards were printed with either a single 60 column legend across the top or with 60/20 columns in 2 rows. Locating the actual column when looking at the interpreter output without one of the 60 column printed legends was "interesting". In fact, you could program the interpreter to put the columns anywhere you wanted on the card--I think the 557 (which I used) could do 25 rows per card. There was at least one pre-war interpreter that would print only 45 columns. Cheers, Chuck From wdonzelli at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 14:15:16 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:15:16 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AE6CEB.11601.AC8D10B@cclist.sydex.com> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> <49AE6CEB.11601.AC8D10B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: > Trick question! ?The IBM interpreters (552,557) could print only 60 > columns across a card, because of the width of the characters. ?So if > you were doing all 80 columns, you got two rows of characters. ?Some > cards were printed with either a single 60 column legend across the > top or with 60/20 columns in 2 rows. ?Locating the actual column when > looking at the interpreter output without one of the 60 column > printed legends was "interesting". Ah yes, I forgot that 557s could not do all 80 columns. Considering I have two of those things you would think I would know... -- Will From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 4 14:25:34 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:25:34 -0500 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <200903041525.34461.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 04 March 2009, Ian King wrote: > It's definitely missing the LSI-11 console machine as well as the > RX01 boot floppy. It looks like one of the CPU boards is mis-seated, > which is nearly impossible to accomplish - so I don't quite > understand the photo of the cardcage. It's possible the CPU is > incomplete, although it is true there are a couple of empty slots in > the 11/785 CPU. > > And yes, the price seems a bit inflated, even were it a complete > machine. -- Ian Yeah, the last 11/780 I bought off of ebay, about 2 years ago, was actually complete (and functional save one PSU which I still need to diagnose; it would DCOK and its voltage level would fall a bit, causing the machine to reboot randomly), was only in the $200-$300 range. The one I got before that was about $200 with a truckload of other stuff. So, yes, it's incomplete (though an RX01 and the 11/03 shouldn't be that hard to come by), and overpriced by what I've seen. A couple years ago, I even had a reseller offer to sell me an 11/785 (tested, working) for $5k or so. I'm not sure where this guy got his $10k figure from. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 4 14:52:38 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:52:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> > > Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, William Donzelli wrote: > Who used a 60 column format? I have a standard sized IBM punch card > with the usual printing for 80 columns, but also for 60 columns. ??? The IBM interpreter, for printing on already punched cards, did not attempt to print 80 column! Its input was 80 column cards; its output was the same cards, with up to 60 columns of printing. From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 15:07:01 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:07:01 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, , <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 12:52, Fred Cisin wrote: > The IBM interpreter, for printing on already punched cards, did not > attempt to print 80 column! Its input was 80 column cards; its output was > the same cards, with up to 60 columns of printing. A 557 could do 80 columns in 2 rows (usually 60/20, but that was programmable). Another "interesting" feature was that the character set was very limited. Learning to read a 557 interpreted program deck with non alphameric characters was an acquired skill. Cheers, Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 4 16:24:49 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:24:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, , <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090304142013.I15373@shell.lmi.net> Ever see a COBOL Interpreter? If the college admins haven't destroyed all of my storage yet, . . . I have/had? a 557 plug-board specifically set up for optimal interpretation of COBOL source code. It is labelled, "COBOL Interpreter". How many people remember what it took to get true 80 column interpreting onto a deck of punched cards? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 4 16:39:41 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:39:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> Message-ID: <20090304143540.V15373@shell.lmi.net> Does anybody object to changing the subject line? My father used to claim that the only reason for existence of the round-hole, 90, 96 column cards was that IBM patented the particular rectangular shape of their holes. He also claimed that IBM patented the whole idea of using a brass roller for card reading, and that that ALMOST worked to cripple the rest of the industry, until somebody finally got photocell card reading working. From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Wed Mar 4 16:42:59 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:42:59 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com> <20090304142013.I15373@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cisin writes: Fred> How many people remember what it took to get true 80 column Fred> interpreting onto a deck of punched cards? An 026 or 029 keypunch... :-) paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 4 16:51:46 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:51:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com> <20090304142013.I15373@shell.lmi.net> <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20090304145112.C15373@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cisin writes: > > Fred> How many people remember what it took to get true 80 column > Fred> interpreting onto a deck of punched cards? > > An 026 or 029 keypunch... :-) Close. But you don't really want to have to punch a new deck. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 4 17:00:37 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:00:37 -0700 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <20090304125016.K10568@shell.lmi.net> <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com> <20090304142013.I15373@shell.lmi.net> <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49AF0815.3080008@jetnet.ab.ca> Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cisin writes: > > Fred> How many people remember what it took to get true 80 column > Fred> interpreting onto a deck of punched cards? > > An 026 or 029 keypunch... :-) > > paul And don't forget to throw in a monkey too ... From rtellason at verizon.net Wed Mar 4 18:32:13 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:32:13 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> > I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I trust > someone has mentioned the 96 column System/3 mini-card: > > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/codes/96col.html > > Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. That was the one roughly the size of a 3.5" floppy, wasn't it? I worked at a place once that used those... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 18:35:52 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:35:52 -0800 Subject: Punched cards In-Reply-To: <20090304145112.C15373@shell.lmi.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL>, <20090304145112.C15373@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AEADE8.29591.BC6C0AC@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 14:51, Fred Cisin wrote: > Close. > But you don't really want to have to punch a new deck. Depends on what options your 029 had installed (those function switches above the keyboard). Some models allowed you to use them as an interpreter. A deadly-slow and noisy process, but better than nothing. The 557 could do, IIRC, something like 100 cpm, which was almost enough to endure the funky 60-column output. What I don't recall is if the 029 interpret feature could work under control of a drum card. You could simply interpret the sequence columns and get an 80-80 list on the 407, then later match them up. The point of duping a deck was to add sequence numbers, no? Stick your original deck in the 519 set up for sequence punching and then interpret the result. That way, you didn't feel too bad when the cart carrying the trays that made up your Pride and Joy hit one of those filler strips in the raised floor and spilled them all over the place. Cheers, Chuck From shumaker at att.net Wed Mar 4 18:36:33 2009 From: shumaker at att.net (s shumaker) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:36:33 -0500 Subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> Message-ID: <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: A law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a sample of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media for a law enforcement forensics class that he teaches. Could one of the listers here offer up a short roll of tape for posterity?.... He's trying to buy it online without success (and definitely doesn't need a case of it). Hopefully there's a scratch run or two laying around that someone could spare... S Shumaker M H Stein wrote: > If you can't arrange a group buy and you don't mind white/unprinted > then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing > anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of > it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-) > > Email off-list if interested. > > mike > --------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:47:09 +0100 > From: Henk Gooijen > Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? > > Hi all, > > I was searching for a company that sells 1" unoiled paper tape, here > in The Netherlands. No luck. After googling and many pages, I found > a company in the USA: http://www.wncsupply.com/paper-tape-rolls.html > I would like to buy one or two rolls of 1000 ft, order# 0400A, > R-V-PU471 Unoiled / Printed Top Arrow yellowish color, but it comes > in either a package of 28 rolls (1) and weighs 40 lbs, or in a quart > package, 7 rolls, still a weight of 10 lbs. The 7 rolls package costs > $80. That OK, but the shipping costs would make it quite expensive. > > My question is simple. > Are there people on this list who also want to buy some rolls of 1" > nice looking yellow paper tape? I would take 2 (or 3) rolls. > Hint: Get a paper tape reader from an old CNC machine from eBay. > (I bought one for $30 and another for $79 two weeks ago). You can > interface such a reader to a computer, in my case the SBC6120 ! > Think of it ... booting the SBC6120 from a paper tape. Is that cool? > > The site also sells nice reels (http://www.wncsupply.com/reels.html). > I wanted to buy the 4" blue ones, but again shipping costs, aarggghh. > However, a nice lady from the company emailed me that she is looking > into the shipping costs, as the costs quoted on their site is a bit > high. > > I hope to hear from one or two people also looking for a few paper > tape rolls ... Please contact me off list. > Links to other companies that sell 1" paper tape are also welcome! > > Thanks, > - Henk, PA8PDP > > > > From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 18:47:09 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:47:09 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090304142013.I15373@shell.lmi.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <49AE7CF5.27908.B07B301@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090304142013.I15373@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AEB08D.12966.BD11BBC@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 14:24, Fred Cisin wrote: > How many people remember what it took to get true 80 column interpreting > onto a deck of punched cards? Depends on what you mean by "true". The whole character set? And *whose* whole character set? I don't remember much IBM unit record equipment set up to print CDC Display Code. Punching EBCDIC on an 024 was a real adventure... Cheers, Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 4 19:20:56 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:20:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Punched cards In-Reply-To: <49AEADE8.29591.BC6C0AC@cclist.sydex.com> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <18863.1011.611102.350440@gargle.gargle.HOWL>, <20090304145112.C15373@shell.lmi.net> <49AEADE8.29591.BC6C0AC@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090304171556.K23930@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Depends on what options your 029 had installed (those function > switches above the keyboard). Some models allowed you to use them as > an interpreter. Right That option was not very common. > The point of duping a deck was to add sequence numbers, no? Stick > your original deck in the 519 set up for sequence punching and then > interpret the result. Duping decks was also necessary for backup, and after a while for wear. Depending on what you were doing, there WERE plenty of times when punched cards would be the OUTPUT for a job. > That way, you didn't feel too bad when the cart carrying the trays > that made up your Pride and Joy hit one of those filler strips in the > raised floor and spilled them all over the place. "The card reader jammed pretty badly, here's what's left of your deck." From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 19:40:26 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:40:26 -0800 Subject: Punched cards In-Reply-To: <20090304171556.K23930@shell.lmi.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <49AEADE8.29591.BC6C0AC@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090304171556.K23930@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49AEBD0A.20571.C01FEA0@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 17:20, Fred Cisin wrote: > > The point of duping a deck was to add sequence numbers, no? Stick > > your original deck in the 519 set up for sequence punching and then > > interpret the result. > > Duping decks was also necessary for backup, and after a while for wear. > Depending on what you were doing, there WERE plenty of times when punched > cards would be the OUTPUT for a job. I liked keeping things on a friendly basis with operators. My output went mostly to tape if not printed. The operators that I knew hated the punch and often wouldn't even check to see if any output had stacked up. > "The card reader jammed pretty badly, here's what's left of your deck." The CDC 405 (1200 cpm) when it jammed, produced the most delightful accordion-pleated cards. A joy to origamists everywhere. Cheers, Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 19:47:06 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:47:06 -0800 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com>, <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 19:32, Roy J. Tellason wrote: > > I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I trust > > someone has mentioned the 96 column System/3 mini-card: > > > > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/codes/96col.html > > > > Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. > > That was the one roughly the size of a 3.5" floppy, wasn't it? I worked at a > place once that used those... Yep, about that size. What made no sense to me is that each column is BA8421 - 6 bits. This long after IBM had settled on 8-bit EBCDIC. Most installations had standardized on the 80 column card, so it didn't make much of a splash unless you were a System/3 installation. Cheers, Chuck From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Wed Mar 4 19:57:56 2009 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:57:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com>, <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Yep, about that size. What made no sense to me is that each column > is BA8421 - 6 bits. This long after IBM had settled on 8-bit EBCDIC. > Most installations had standardized on the 80 column card, so it > didn't make much of a splash unless you were a System/3 installation. Here's what the keypunch looked like for these little guys: http://rlfranz.net/AmericanDistilling_DataProcessing/Images/Keypunch.jpg Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Wed Mar 4 20:18:08 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:18:08 -0500 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090304143540.V15373@shell.lmi.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> <20090304143540.V15373@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > My father used to claim that the only reason for existence of the > round-hole, 90, 96 column cards was that IBM patented the particular > rectangular shape of their holes. > > He also claimed that IBM patented the whole idea of using a brass > roller > for card reading, and that that ALMOST worked to cripple the rest of > the > industry, until somebody finally got photocell card reading working. I wonder. The original Hollerith cards had round holes. And patents were good for 17 years, so even if square holes were patented that wouldn't necessarily explain round holes (depending on when). Pointers to patents would be helpful here... paul From bear at typewritten.org Wed Mar 4 20:28:03 2009 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:28:03 -0800 Subject: Eastbound hauling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 4, 2009, at 11:51 AM, William Donzelli wrote: > I will be on the West Coast (San Diego thru the Bay Area) in early > May, driving with my trailer and van (I do this every year). In order > to fund the trip, I offer moving services basically across the > country, back to New York and points between. That's a major bummer as I have a few items that need to be collected from assorted locations in NY and MA, and delivered to Seattle. If I can't work out any other arrangements, I may be doing the same thing in reverse, at the end of May. ok bear From scheefj at netscape.net Wed Mar 4 22:18:57 2009 From: scheefj at netscape.net (Jim Scheef) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:18:57 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, <49AE5C9E.6177.A89257B@cclist.sydex.com>, <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> Is ANY of this discussion actually about buying paper tape? (other than the first 3 messages) Jim Mike Loewen wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> Yep, about that size. What made no sense to me is that each column >> is BA8421 - 6 bits. This long after IBM had settled on 8-bit EBCDIC. >> Most installations had standardized on the 80 column card, so it >> didn't make much of a splash unless you were a System/3 installation. > > Here's what the keypunch looked like for these little guys: > > http://rlfranz.net/AmericanDistilling_DataProcessing/Images/Keypunch.jpg > > > Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 4 22:39:48 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:39:48 -0800 Subject: Punched cards, was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> References: <038101c99c65$197ef370$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af>, , <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> Message-ID: <49AEE714.2577.CA62322@cclist.sydex.com> On 4 Mar 2009 at 23:18, Jim Scheef wrote: > Is ANY of this discussion actually about buying paper tape? (other than > the first 3 messages) > > Jim Of course not. However, take a look at: http://marketplace.vintage-computer.com/index.php There a fellow selling some MITS paper tape programs. No bids yet, so you might be able to make a deal. Cheers, Chuck From nierveze at radio-astronomie.com Wed Mar 4 03:26:42 2009 From: nierveze at radio-astronomie.com (nierveze) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:26:42 +0100 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <007201c99cab$5b195fa0$04000005@pc> hello ,a marvelous machine ,but needs lots of power and space.I had one a long time ago,I gave it to a museum near Paris ,this is why my home has still three phase power !!!!.My money appreciates the vax 4000/100 !!!!this one seems incomplete ,there is only the cpu ,not the unibus that is normally in an adjacent rack containing the ba11 with interfaces to disks ,tapes etc....,and neither not the the small pdp11/03 that is the console with the single rx01,those things are more classic ,less difficult to find than the cpu itself.I hope it will find a good home. best regards almain nierveze ----- Message d'origine ----- De : ? : Envoy? : mercredi 4 mars 2009 00:46 Objet : VAX 11/780 on eBay Item 150330289821. A bit expensive for my tastes. Makes me wish I was independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements for such a beast :). From wgungfu at gmail.com Wed Mar 4 08:13:22 2009 From: wgungfu at gmail.com (Martin Goldberg) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:13:22 -0600 Subject: 65C02 (atari) et al In-Reply-To: <020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> References: <49ADF593.4080001@tdh.com> <020f01c99c8e$072ba640$279e19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <2c768b1e0903040613y78fcd67cr9813a49ce06ae827@mail.gmail.com> 800's used 6502B's, unless you're talking about the 800xl? On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Alexandre Souza < alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> wrote: > > Dear friends > > Anyone with a spare 65C02, the special type used in the Atari 800 and the > Atari 5200? > > Thanks > Alexandre > From erikb at digischool.nl Wed Mar 4 10:34:06 2009 From: erikb at digischool.nl (erikb at digischool.nl) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:34:06 +0100 Subject: Emulex UC17 UNIBUS SCSI boards Message-ID: <20090304163406.GA23969@x1.electrologica.nl> Hi folks, With all this talk about QBUS SCSI boards I thought I'd mention that I have three Emulex UC17 UNIBUS SCSI boards available waiting for the right deal. They came from a professional outfit and were tested (and found working) two weeks ago. These are simply awesome. Contact me off list for details, I won't bite. Greetings, Erik From csquared3 at tx.rr.com Wed Mar 4 15:53:54 2009 From: csquared3 at tx.rr.com (CSquared) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:53:54 -0600 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? Message-ID: <002201c99d13$b6cf53f0$6400a8c0@acerd3c08b49af> > Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:41:07 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert > CSquared wrote: >> >> On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:41:14 -0800 Rich Alderson said: >> >> >> From: CSquared >> >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:53 PM >> >> >> I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer >> >> actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. >> >> I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers >> >> how many columns those cards were blessed with. >> >> > Univac 90-column cards are Hollerith cards just like the "IBM" cards. >> > They consist of upper and lower groups of 45 columns of 6 round punches >> > (instead of the rectangular punches favoured by IBM). >> >> Interesting. I don't know how I remembered the 90 columns as I never >> worked with a Univac computer - only IBM's and various minis which mostly >> didn't even have punched card readers at all. I'm not real sure I've >> ever even seen one of the Univac punched cards. Your description >> of the hole grouping sounds like maybe they encoded characters as >> 6-bit codes vs. the "12-1 is an A", "12-2 is a B" scheme used by IBM. >> I'm not real sure that's even correct either - it's been a right good while. > > It doesn't present the full encoding but there is a picture and some more info here: > http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/cards.html > > The labelling on the card suggests the numeric digits were punched in biquinary > format. I'm going to guess that that goes back to the origins of that card type > when only numeric data where utilised, and that alpha & punctuation were added > later, using the remaining 6-bit binary patterns. I was just about to say I had never seen one of those, but then I seem to recall the Dallas-Ft. Worth turnpike also used Univac punched cards as tickets now that I think about it. That former turnpike has been a freeway (just another segment of I30) for quite a few years now. Perhaps that is the source of my hazy memories of those cards. If the coding is bi-quinary as the web site suggests, that brings back other unrelated memories of the adder in the IBM 1401. Of course I'm sure those show up in other machines as well, but that was my first encounter with them in about 1962 or so. That looks to be a very interesting web site for many reasons, though those cards were not what I visualized. I have another vague memory of a card with oval holes (longer in the vertical dimension) with the 90 holes all in 1 row rather than in 2 rows as the web site shows. Now I'm going to have to do a bit of searching to see if I can find something that matches that memory. From jeflittl at cisco.com Wed Mar 4 18:41:10 2009 From: jeflittl at cisco.com (Jeff Little (jeflittl)) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 16:41:10 -0800 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr Message-ID: To Whom it may Concern: What is all this stuff about the Intercept Jr? I was the designer of that little demo computer way back in the 1970s when I was working for Intersil. If anyone get's this message, are there some specific questions you might have? I still have several of the early proto units in my garage along with a lot of the original documentation. I see that someone is asking about getting replacements for the little micro-interpreter chip used in this design. Unfortunately it is not really possible to get new chips because the original was really a mask-programmed CMOS ROM that Intersil was using the Intercept Jr as a demo vehicle for (in addition to the 6100, the CMOS RAMs, and the support chips). There was also a larger version called the Intercept that I designed and we built first which was a full-blown PDP-8/E equivalent with 4K of 12-bit RAM, a full front panel, and a current-loop async serial interface that could be connected to an ASR-33 teletype and would run a full set of Digital diags and 4K-version software. After I left Intersil I believe they continued to develop additional peripherals for the Intercept and the Intercept Jr. including a memory extension controller based on the Digital version, a floppy disk controller, some special Intercept Jr. demo plug-in cards used in various educational settings such as the 6100 training courses that Intersil offered to their customers. I believe eventually the Intercept was capable of running OS/8. That required a 2-bank memory of 8K of 12-bit RAM as I recall. Regards, Jeff Little Menlo Park, Calif. PS: don't forget that the PDP-8 was basically organized around 12-bit words, not bytes. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu Mar 5 03:56:34 2009 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 01:56:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay Message-ID: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Any Digital Group fans here? It's being offered for a $2000 buy-it-now, item # 310126675985. No relation to the seller. --Bill From silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com Thu Mar 5 04:59:25 2009 From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com (silvercreekvalley) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 02:59:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Looking for a half height cab (DEC if possible) Message-ID: <665000.47930.qm@web56204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Anyone in the UK got a half height cab (DEC would be great) for sale/trade. Will collect. Contact me off list if anything available. Cheers. Ian. From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Thu Mar 5 06:59:24 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:59:24 -0300 Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay References: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <032401c99d92$f48235d0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> > It's being offered for a $2000 buy-it-now, item # 310126675985. > No relation to the seller. $2000 for some old iron he doesn't even want to risk to turn it on? People are getting completely crazy nowadays :oD From dgahling at hotmail.com Thu Mar 5 08:36:57 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:36:57 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? Message-ID: I was thinking about things like the "super card" and other drive/ copier enhancements that were made back in the day. I even had something from (super card I think) called "IHS Nibbler" (Index Hole Sensor) nibbler. which was a hardware/software copier mix, one part went inside the drive. I remember the "super card" had many different things, like a "ram card" that went inside the 1541 drive. is it possible to recreate these things? (I dont have any hardware any more) I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, or alternatively I bet a "generic" hardware device could be made... Dan. _________________________________________________________________ Experience all of the new features, and Reconnect with your life. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650730 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 5 09:39:34 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 07:39:34 -0800 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:36 AM -0500 3/5/09, Dan Gahlinger wrote: >I was thinking about things like the "super card" >and other drive/ copier enhancements that were made back in the day. > >I even had something from (super card I think) called "IHS Nibbler" >(Index Hole Sensor) nibbler. >which was a hardware/software copier mix, one part went inside the drive. > >I remember the "super card" had many different things, like a "ram >card" that went inside the 1541 drive. > >is it possible to recreate these things? (I dont have any hardware any more) > >I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, or alternatively I bet a >"generic" hardware device could be made... You really like making claims about copyrights don't you? Even I am noticing a trend here, and I don't spend much time reading the list anymore. Or are you simply a Troll? Personally I'm more interested in new hardware that incorporates aspects of old hardware for my C-64, and have purchased three new items in the past year. So maybe this does answer your question, yes, it is possible to recreate some of these old upgrades, but I'm not of anyone making specifically what you're talking about as I've not had any reason to look for them. For all I know it's already built into the one device I have, or can be added to it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From keithvz at verizon.net Thu Mar 5 10:02:51 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:02:51 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> Dan Gahlinger wrote: > I remember the "super card" had many different things, like a "ram card" that went inside the 1541 drive. > > is it possible to recreate these things? (I dont have any hardware any more) > > Dan. Dan, Yes, it's absolutely possible. As a matter of fact I sort of get my rocks off on using the latest brand new technology to solve old school problems. The solutions are often smaller, faster, better, etc. I've done some work on some Amiga related stuff and doing this is a lot of fun. Keith From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 10:16:33 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:16:33 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Keith wrote: > Dan, > > Yes, it's absolutely possible. > > As a matter of fact I sort of get my rocks off on using the latest brand new > technology to solve old school problems. ?The solutions are often smaller, > faster, better, etc. ?I've done some work on some Amiga related stuff and > doing this is a lot of fun. > > Keith I'm greatly into this also. I have four amigas. I'm about to put "hard drives" in two and replace one in a third with 2gb compact flash cards attached to ide adapters. They're small, fast, quiet, and the capacity is huge for the era. On my want-list for hardware is an Apple 2e and Apple 2gs. Both also have ide controllers being made today. One also has the compact flash adapter right there on the card. I'd also like to find a similar scsi solution for my two macs that doesn't cost a huge amount of money. The same is true for networking. Someone has made ethernet connectors for the 2e and c64. I also have a deneb board in one of my amiga 2000s. It's a usb 2.0 controller that works with all sorts of things including usb ethernet adapters. There's a lot of this sort of thing in the amiga community. There's a guy in germany making a device called the indivision. It attaches to one of the amiga custom chips and provides a vga connector. There's a also a guy in russia making memory expanders for the a600. Then there's the mediator from elbox. All we need now is for someone to make a new 68060 accelerator upgrade for the 1200 and/or the cpu slots like in the 2000. Those seem unlikely inspite of the crazy prices those boards get on ebay. Even 68040 upgrade boards would be exceedingly popular. brian From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 5 10:36:15 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:36:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Keith wrote: > As a matter of fact I sort of get my rocks off on using the latest brand new > technology to solve old school problems. The solutions are often smaller, > faster, better, etc. I've done some work on some Amiga related stuff and > doing this is a lot of fun. > How about a gadget that'll let me use a VGA display with an Amiga 2000 that won't cost an arm and a leg? :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 10:40:48 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:40:48 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903050840x2af59a2ew41bc44b40c8da627@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Gene Buckle wrote: > On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Keith wrote: > How about a gadget that'll let me use a VGA display with an Amiga 2000 that > won't cost an arm and a leg? :) Stay tuned... Jens (of indivision fame) is currently working on a similar device that will plug into the 2000's denise socket. Which says to me that it would presumably work on the 500 as well. Sign me up! brian From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 5 10:41:44 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:41:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Brian Lanning wrote: > I'm greatly into this also. I have four amigas. I'm about to put > "hard drives" in two and replace one in a third with 2gb compact flash > cards attached to ide adapters. They're small, fast, quiet, and the > capacity is huge for the era. On my want-list for hardware is an > Apple 2e and Apple 2gs. Both also have ide controllers being made > today. One also has the compact flash adapter right there on the > card. I'd also like to find a similar scsi solution for my two macs > that doesn't cost a huge amount of money. > Brian, I've done something similar with my Amiga 2000. I'm using a SCSI-IDE bridge connected to an IDE-CF adapter. Works great. I'm using a Focus IDE controller in my IIe to run my bbs (telnet://aor.retroarchive.org). I'm using a ProDOS formatted 128MB CF card instead of a drive though. > The same is true for networking. Someone has made ethernet connectors > for the 2e and c64. I also have a deneb board in one of my amiga > 2000s. It's a usb 2.0 controller that works with all sorts of things > including usb ethernet adapters. > What OS rev has drivers for the USB card and ethernet controller? I would love to have the ability to put my A2000 on the net. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Mar 5 10:51:38 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:51:38 -0500 Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay In-Reply-To: <032401c99d92$f48235d0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> References: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <032401c99d92$f48235d0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <7A105542-E086-4E13-AD52-3438AC6113AB@neurotica.com> On Mar 5, 2009, at 7:59 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: >> It's being offered for a $2000 buy-it-now, item # 310126675985. >> No relation to the seller. > > $2000 for some old iron he doesn't even want to risk to turn it on? > > People are getting completely crazy nowadays :oD Ahh, so typical of classiccmp. That machine is worth $2K in a heartbeat. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Mar 5 10:53:19 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:53:19 -0500 Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay In-Reply-To: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86903286-FD5F-4813-8C29-DAD3D3D3FF97@neurotica.com> On Mar 5, 2009, at 4:56 AM, William Maddox wrote: > Any Digital Group fans here? > > It's being offered for a $2000 buy-it-now, item # 310126675985. > No relation to the seller. Big fan here. I grew up building Steve Ciarcia's projects, many of which were developed using one of those. In fact, Steve Ciarcia's very machine was sold on eBay a couple of years ago, and alas, I was broke then too. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 10:53:50 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:53:50 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Gene Buckle wrote: > Brian, I've done something similar with my Amiga 2000. ?I'm using a SCSI-IDE > bridge connected to an IDE-CF adapter. ?Works great. I could only find one and it was a bit pricey. Where did you get yours? > What OS rev has drivers for the USB card and ethernet controller? ?I would > love to have the ability to put my A2000 on the net. The OS and kickstart roms don't have native support for USB. Someone (can't remember who) wrote a USB stack called poseidon. It comes with the deneb board. Other people still have written drivers for certain USB ethernet adapter chipsets. I had two of these lying around, but I'm not sure if they're the right chipsets. I haven't tried to make it work yet, although it's on the agenda. You can read about the deneb here. Looks like it supports 3.x: http://www.vesalia.de/e_deneb.htm You can also read about some of Jens' hardware here (note the X-surf): http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm Although I don't see a link there for the indivision. You can see that here: http://www.vesalia.de/e_indivisionaga4000d.htm http://www.vesalia.de/e_indivisionaga1200.htm brian From keithvz at verizon.net Thu Mar 5 11:00:46 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:00:46 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > > How about a gadget that'll let me use a VGA display with an Amiga 2000 > that won't cost an arm and a leg? :) > > g. > Gene, A rather convoluted thread but there's one that Roy??? has been working on that is or is close to being released. http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=41202&forum=22 Ballpark price $65 Keith From keithvz at verizon.net Thu Mar 5 11:09:45 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:09:45 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> Brian Lanning wrote: > There's a > also a guy in russia making memory expanders for the a600. I've seriously contemplated making my own matching memory expansion module for my VXL/30 A500 cpu accelerator. Fairly complicated because I have to create a DRAM controller. Thinking FGPA w/ a pre-made memory controller core. > Then > there's the mediator from elbox. All we need now is for someone to > make a new 68060 accelerator upgrade for the 1200 and/or the cpu slots > like in the 2000. Those seem unlikely inspite of the crazy prices > those boards get on ebay. Even 68040 upgrade boards would be > exceedingly popular. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing what prices those things command. I'd love to get a back-up A500 accelerator board. I've been buying/collecting all types of amiga documentation. I've been trying to really figure how it works --- alot of stuff happening inside that computer from 20+ years ago. I've made an external usb amiga floppy drive controller. Attaches to USB on PC and a regular 34-pin floppy drive -- creates .ADFs for archiving, emulators, etc. Fun project. It's prototyped and not easily/cost effectively reproducible. But lots of fun. > brian Keith From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Thu Mar 5 11:16:09 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 12:16:09 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <18864.2265.255321.368595@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Keith" == Keith writes: Keith> Brian Lanning wrote: >> There's a also a guy in russia making memory expanders for the >> a600. Keith> I've seriously contemplated making my own matching memory Keith> expansion module for my VXL/30 A500 cpu accelerator. Fairly Keith> complicated because I have to create a DRAM controller. Keith> Thinking FGPA w/ a pre-made memory controller core. You can find DRAM controllers at opencores.org -- no need to limit yourself to FPGAs that come with dedicated ones. paul From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 11:20:24 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:20:24 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903050920g3a8dcf68s66bfd128bc4e9d0@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Keith wrote: > Yeah, it's absolutely amazing what prices those things command. ?I'd love to > get a back-up A500 accelerator board. > > I've been buying/collecting all types of amiga documentation. ?I've been > trying to really figure how it works --- alot of stuff happening inside that > computer from 20+ years ago. > > I've made an external usb amiga floppy drive controller. Attaches to USB on > PC and a regular 34-pin floppy drive -- creates .ADFs for archiving, > emulators, etc. ?Fun project. It's prototyped and not easily/cost > effectively reproducible. ?But lots of fun. I'd love to have a 500 with an accelerator. Alas, limited money means higher priorities first. >From what I understand (I'm a software guy, not hardware), the amigas were really easy to create accelerators for. There's a pin on the zorro 2 slot, iirc, that takes over the cpu. It's like a switch for the 68000. I wish I knew more about hardware. I've seen discussions on amiga.org about recreating accelerators for the 1200, especially the phase 5 68060/powerpc board. The consensus was that this board was so complicated and well-engineered that it would way to expensive to recreate. I can't imagine why a 2000 or 500 accelerator would be so hard to make though. brian From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 11:29:49 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 12:29:49 -0500 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Jeff Little (jeflittl) wrote: > To Whom it may Concern: > > What is all this stuff about the Intercept Jr? Some of us still play with 12-bit machines, and some of us also have a tube or two of IM6100s and the odd IM6100 lying about. There's been some on-and-off talk about designing a simple 4K IM6100 board that would, by necessity, resemble an Intercept Jr. > I was the designer of that little demo computer way back in the 1970s > when I was working for Intersil. Neat! It's always great to hear from someone who was making the stuff that we bought (or gazed at longingly, unable to afford). I still have a 1978 special issue of Popular Electronics I saved for the Cosmac Elf article that also has a "complete" list of all micro computers for sale at the time. The Intercept Jr is in there, and I remember it because it mentions PDP-8/e compatibility. > If anyone get's this message, are there some specific questions you > might have? I don't have any specific questions, but I'm sure you have an interesting story or two about tricks of the design or a manufacturing issue or perhaps even of an "interesting" customer. > There was also a larger version called the Intercept that I designed and > we built first which was a full-blown PDP-8/E equivalent with 4K of > 12-bit RAM, a full front panel, and a current-loop async serial > interface that could be connected to an ASR-33 teletype and would run a > full set of Digital diags and 4K-version software. I think I remember reading about it, but I never saw one. > ?I believe eventually the Intercept > was capable of running OS/8. ? That required a 2-bank memory of 8K of > 12-bit RAM as I recall. Yes. OS/8 does require 8K minimum. I have a PDP-8/i I've been trying to upgrade since I was in High School to be able to do more than run paper tape on it. -ethan From dgahling at hotmail.com Thu Mar 5 12:14:18 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (dgahling@hotmail.com ) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:14:18 +0000 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? Message-ID: its just a disclaimer for the a/r... now that you mention it there is a usb type interface abd 1541 on flash usb (so to speak) ---------- Sent via Telus My Email 2.0 -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy Sent: 3/5/2009 3:39:34 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? At 9:36 AM -0500 3/5/09, Dan Gahlinger wrote: >I was thinking about things like the "super card" >and other drive/ copier enhancements that were made back in the day. > >I even had something from (super card I think) called "IHS Nibbler" >(Index Hole Sensor) nibbler. >which was a hardware/software copier mix, one part went inside the drive. > >I remember the "super card" had many different things, like a "ram >card" that went inside the 1541 drive. > >is it possible to recreate these things? (I dont have any hardware any more) > >I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, or alternatively I bet a >"generic" hardware device could be made... You really like making claims about copyrights don't you? Even I am noticing a trend here, and I don't spend much time reading the list anymore. Or are you simply a Troll? Personally I'm more interested in new hardware that incorporates aspects of old hardware for my C-64, and have purchased three new items in the past year. So maybe this does answer your question, yes, it is possible to recreate some of these old upgrades, but I'm not of anyone making specifically what you're talking about as I've not had any reason to look for them. For all I know it's already built into the one device I have, or can be added to it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From keithvz at verizon.net Thu Mar 5 12:20:47 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:20:47 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <18864.2265.255321.368595@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> <18864.2265.255321.368595@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49B017FF.7000900@verizon.net> Paul Koning wrote: > You can find DRAM controllers at opencores.org -- no need to limit > yourself to FPGAs that come with dedicated ones. Yeah, that's actually what I had in mind.(and probably didn't say) Xilinx has their Memory Interface Generator which is part of their coregen IP. That works on several different FPGAs. I've tried the MIG generated stuff, and some opencores ones too. Unfortunately, I've been unable to make any of them work with my Spartan 3E starter kit -- even though several of them are explicitly written for that platform. This is mainly due to my lack of experience and knowledge than it does to the quality of the cores. I'm still banging away. I'd really like a simple straightforward interface to read/write data to the onboard DDR. Thanks Keith From auringer at tds.net Thu Mar 5 12:19:34 2009 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 12:19:34 -0600 Subject: Manuals & books that need a new home Message-ID: <20090305121934.2FHO1.51528.root@webfep14> Hi all, I have the following items that are looking for a new home. Tektronix 9100 DAS manual SCO Xenix manual set w/Excelan "The LAN Workplace" manual & disks Books on 1-2-3 & dBase Misc hardware manuals (PC) Pictures are available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jja572 Make me an offer above shipping cost to make it worth my time to box it up. Anything not claimed in the next week or so shall most likely end up in the recycle bin. More to items to come in the near future. Jon From dave.thearchivist at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 12:48:00 2009 From: dave.thearchivist at gmail.com (Dave Caroline) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:48:00 +0000 Subject: Manuals & books that need a new home In-Reply-To: <20090305121934.2FHO1.51528.root@webfep14> References: <20090305121934.2FHO1.51528.root@webfep14> Message-ID: the DAS 9100 manual is tempting, any idea of post (by cheapest means) costs to UK Dave Caroline From shumaker at att.net Thu Mar 5 12:54:52 2009 From: shumaker at att.net (shumaker at att.net) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:54:52 +0000 Subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> Message-ID: <030520091854.2470.49B01FFC0005D6BC000009A622228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C@att.net> Thanks to all who offered! Problem is solved - Ian is helping out. Steve Shumaker -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: s shumaker > > The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: A > law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a sample > of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media for a law > enforcement forensics class that he teaches. Could one of the listers > here offer up a short roll of tape for posterity?.... He's trying to > buy it online without success (and definitely doesn't need a case of > it). Hopefully there's a scratch run or two laying around that someone > could spare... > > S Shumaker > > > M H Stein wrote: > > If you can't arrange a group buy and you don't mind white/unprinted > > then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing > > anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of > > it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-) > > > > Email off-list if interested. > > > > mike > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:47:09 +0100 > > From: Henk Gooijen > > Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? > > > > Hi all, > > > > I was searching for a company that sells 1" unoiled paper tape, here > > in The Netherlands. No luck. After googling and many pages, I found > > a company in the USA: http://www.wncsupply.com/paper-tape-rolls.html > > I would like to buy one or two rolls of 1000 ft, order# 0400A, > > R-V-PU471 Unoiled / Printed Top Arrow yellowish color, but it comes > > in either a package of 28 rolls (1) and weighs 40 lbs, or in a quart > > package, 7 rolls, still a weight of 10 lbs. The 7 rolls package costs > > $80. That OK, but the shipping costs would make it quite expensive. > > > > My question is simple. > > Are there people on this list who also want to buy some rolls of 1" > > nice looking yellow paper tape? I would take 2 (or 3) rolls. > > Hint: Get a paper tape reader from an old CNC machine from eBay. > > (I bought one for $30 and another for $79 two weeks ago). You can > > interface such a reader to a computer, in my case the SBC6120 ! > > Think of it ... booting the SBC6120 from a paper tape. Is that cool? > > > > The site also sells nice reels (http://www.wncsupply.com/reels.html). > > I wanted to buy the 4" blue ones, but again shipping costs, aarggghh. > > However, a nice lady from the company emailed me that she is looking > > into the shipping costs, as the costs quoted on their site is a bit > > high. > > > > I hope to hear from one or two people also looking for a few paper > > tape rolls ... Please contact me off list. > > Links to other companies that sell 1" paper tape are also welcome! > > > > Thanks, > > - Henk, PA8PDP > > > > > > > > From auringer at tds.net Thu Mar 5 13:00:24 2009 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:00:24 -0600 Subject: Manuals & books that need a new home In-Reply-To: <20090305121934.2FHO1.51528.root@webfep14> Message-ID: <20090305130024.RDCY6.52368.root@webfep14> Hello again, Forgot to include the point of origin: Madison, WI 53714, USA. Also, I forgot to mention the "Inside Laserwriter" binder. Jon ---- Jon Auringer wrote: > Hi all, > > I have the following items that are looking for a new home. > > Tektronix 9100 DAS manual > SCO Xenix manual set w/Excelan "The LAN Workplace" manual & disks > Books on 1-2-3 & dBase > Misc hardware manuals (PC) > > Pictures are available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jja572 > > Make me an offer above shipping cost to make it worth my time to box it up. Anything not claimed in the next week or so shall most likely end up in the recycle bin. > > More to items to come in the near future. > > Jon > From rtellason at verizon.net Thu Mar 5 14:34:53 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:34:53 -0500 Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay In-Reply-To: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903051534.53472.rtellason@verizon.net> On Thursday 05 March 2009 04:56:34 am William Maddox wrote: > Any Digital Group fans here? > > It's being offered for a $2000 buy-it-now, item # 310126675985. > No relation to the seller. > > --Bill Nice looking machine, though the price asked is insane... I wonder why the keyboard wasn't centered in that enclosure? I remember the guy that ran that company publishing articles with all of the technical details included in the articles, and it was pretty simple and straightforward stuff. That backplane/mainboard looked a whole lot like the image I'm remembering from some article or other. If I found one of these I'd probably take it home. But pay anything like that? He's crazy. Not to mention "Altair" and "1976" being inaccurate, as well as "mid-1970s", this was a bit later than that, late 1970s at least. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From steve at radiorobots.com Thu Mar 5 14:48:09 2009 From: steve at radiorobots.com (Steve Stutman) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:48:09 -0500 Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay In-Reply-To: <200903051534.53472.rtellason@verizon.net> References: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200903051534.53472.rtellason@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49B03A89.6050909@radiorobots.com> Digital Group shipped between 1976 ( some things, maybe late 1975) and 1979. Robert Suding, who founded and led it, has recently disconnected from the net. He is a very nice and prolific guy. Steve Roy J. Tellason wrote: > On Thursday 05 March 2009 04:56:34 am William Maddox wrote: > >> Any Digital Group fans here? >> >> It's being offered for a $2000 buy-it-now, item # 310126675985. >> No relation to the seller. >> >> --Bill >> > > Nice looking machine, though the price asked is insane... > > I wonder why the keyboard wasn't centered in that enclosure? > > I remember the guy that ran that company publishing articles with all of the > technical details included in the articles, and it was pretty simple and > straightforward stuff. That backplane/mainboard looked a whole lot like the > image I'm remembering from some article or other. > > If I found one of these I'd probably take it home. But pay anything like > that? He's crazy. Not to mention "Altair" and "1976" being inaccurate, as > well as "mid-1970s", this was a bit later than that, late 1970s at least. > > > > From rtellason at verizon.net Thu Mar 5 15:13:25 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:13:25 -0500 Subject: Beautiful Digital Group Z80 system on eBay In-Reply-To: <49B03A89.6050909@radiorobots.com> References: <303997.80044.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200903051534.53472.rtellason@verizon.net> <49B03A89.6050909@radiorobots.com> Message-ID: <200903051613.26038.rtellason@verizon.net> On Thursday 05 March 2009 03:48:09 pm Steve Stutman wrote: > Digital Group shipped between 1976 ( some things, maybe late 1975) and > 1979. > > Robert Suding, who founded and led it, has recently disconnected from > the net. That's the name I was thinking of and couldn't remember... > He is a very nice and prolific guy. I know I enjoyed the articles, back then. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 5 16:03:18 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:03:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Brian Lanning wrote: > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Gene Buckle wrote: >> Brian, I've done something similar with my Amiga 2000. ?I'm using a SCSI-IDE >> bridge connected to an IDE-CF adapter. ?Works great. > > I could only find one and it was a bit pricey. Where did you get yours? > I found the SCSI-IDE bridges on eBay for $30 each. I think the IDE-CF adapter (made so you can mount it in a slot opening in a pc case) was $7. > >> What OS rev has drivers for the USB card and ethernet controller? ?I would >> love to have the ability to put my A2000 on the net. > Thanks for the links Brian. I'll have to go digging. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From dm561 at torfree.net Thu Mar 5 15:30:48 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:30:48 -0500 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? Message-ID: <01C99DB5.570422A0@host-208-72-122-189.dyn.295.ca> --------------Original Message: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:39:41 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Cisin Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? Does anybody object to changing the subject line? My father used to claim that the only reason for existence of the round-hole, 90, 96 column cards was that IBM patented the particular rectangular shape of their holes. He also claimed that IBM patented the whole idea of using a brass roller for card reading, and that that ALMOST worked to cripple the rest of the industry, until somebody finally got photocell card reading working. --------------Reply: IBM did indeed patent the rectangular holes used in their 80 column cards. Whether the brass roller was a major factor is questionable; after all, their competitors also used punched cards. But there's no question that the general acceptance of IBM's card format and their locked-in customers were instrumental in IBM becoming the giant that they did; while their competitiors struggled during and after the depression, punch card sales helped IBM survive and grow. As late as the mid-fifties punch card sales represented 30% of IBM's bottom line; see: http://www.cbi.umn.edu/hostedpublications/pdf/IBMRochesterHistory.pdf mike From dm561 at torfree.net Thu Mar 5 15:15:40 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:15:40 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? Message-ID: <01C99DB5.55821680@host-208-72-122-189.dyn.295.ca> -------------Original Message: Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:47:06 -0800 From: "Chuck Guzis" Subject: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? On 4 Mar 2009 at 19:32, Roy J. Tellason wrote: > > I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I trust > > someone has mentioned the 96 column System/3 mini-card: > > > > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/codes/96col.html > > > > Holds more characters, but less data than a standard 80 column card. > > That was the one roughly the size of a 3.5" floppy, wasn't it? I worked at a > place once that used those... Yep, about that size. What made no sense to me is that each column is BA8421 - 6 bits. This long after IBM had settled on 8-bit EBCDIC. Most installations had standardized on the 80 column card, so it didn't make much of a splash unless you were a System/3 installation. Cheers, Chuck ---------------Reply: Well, it may not have been a big splash relatively speaking, but they were certainly used a fair bit by Burroughs, especially in the era of the B1700. And to get back to the original topic, I don't see any mention of edge- punched cards, sort of like fanfold paper tape but card stock, wider, and with prepunched feed holes; many readers and perfs could handle both PPT and EPCs. FWIW, the ones I have here are 3"x11". mike From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 5 16:10:20 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:10:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Keith wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: >> >> How about a gadget that'll let me use a VGA display with an Amiga 2000 that >> won't cost an arm and a leg? :) >> >> g. >> > > Gene, > > A rather convoluted thread but there's one that Roy??? has been working on > that is or is close to being released. > > http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=41202&forum=22 > > Ballpark price $65 > It appears to only cover the 1200 and the conversation died last October... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 16:16:48 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:16:48 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903051416v7563c041j8bb84e490491e05f@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Gene Buckle wrote: > It appears to only cover the 1200 and the conversation died last October... if it's external, it will work on any of the amigas, assuming it works that is. brian From auringer at tds.net Thu Mar 5 16:26:48 2009 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:26:48 -0600 Subject: Another batch of manuals / brochures that must go Message-ID: <20090305162648.F1AP5.57029.root@webfep14> Hello again, Here are a few more things that need a new caretaker or are going to be recycled. Look at the pictures and make me an offer. Shipping from Madison, WI 53714 USA. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jja572 Fujitsu drives: M2351A/AF Mini - Disk Drive CE Mannual M2372K - Engineering Spec. (2 copies) M2331K/M2333K - Eng. Spec M2344K - (shown in picture, but not available) Precision Standard Time Inc: Brochures for models 1020 & 1030 Control Data: Brochure and product spec for 9715-500 & 9771 fixed disk drives Twin Cities Disk Division: Spec. for 8" Module Family Intel: iAPX 432 Interconnect Architecture Reference Manual IBIS Systems Inc: IBIS 1400 Unit Spec. Jon From joachim.thiemann at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 17:13:16 2009 From: joachim.thiemann at gmail.com (Joachim Thiemann) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:13:16 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 17:03, Gene Buckle wrote: > I found the SCSI-IDE bridges on eBay for $30 each. ?I think the IDE-CF > adapter (made so you can mount it in a slot opening in a pc case) was $7. I have been thinking about the following: It is (relatively) easy to interface to a MMC/SD/SDHC card, and they're quite cheap (<$10) for smaller sizes, small meaning around 1Gig. Interface code and circuits can easily be googled - for example, there are a few projects to read/write to them from the Arduino. ("circuit" being a 2-resistor voltage divider on the 5V TTL lines going to the SD card, and straight connection to the 5V inputs since 3.3V is sufficient for the TTL threshold to be satisfied) I don't think the I2C featuers of the ATmega are used since the Arduino does not support it in their libraries, so all IO is usually bit-banged. (I may be wrong on this!) Given this, can one hook a SD/SDHC card to the Amiga parallel port, and then write a "sdhc.device" that presents a block device that can be put into the Mountlist and be accessed by dos.library or one of the ms-dos capable libraries (messydos?) and thus present a non-bootable mass storage device for the amiga? So, you boot with a custom workbench disk, that loads the driver, mounts the SDHC card and then startup-sequence hands control over to a script on the SDHC card. ISTR this was commonly done for romless drive addons on the 500 - and I had such a setup for my 1000, where my bootup workbech disk loaded the janus drivers and then handed control over to a MFM hard disk in the Sidecar. I never did any coding on my amiga to that level, and don't know if I could pull this one off aside from building the hardware and maybe the I2C code to talk to the SD card. (Hint: old PC floppy ribbon connectors make great makeshift SD card sockets!) But would any real amiga hacker be up for that? Joe. -- Joachim Thiemann :: http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem From brain at jbrain.com Thu Mar 5 17:25:02 2009 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:25:02 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49B05F4E.3010101@jbrain.com> Keith wrote: > Dan Gahlinger wrote: > >> I remember the "super card" had many different things, like a "ram >> card" that went inside the 1541 drive. >> >> is it possible to recreate these things? (I dont have any hardware >> any more) >> >> Dan. > > Dan, > > Yes, it's absolutely possible. > > As a matter of fact I sort of get my rocks off on using the latest > brand new technology to solve old school problems. The solutions are > often smaller, faster, better, etc. I've done some work on some Amiga > related stuff and doing this is a lot of fun. > > Keith In some respects, it's required, as the old technology disappears or becomes hard to use. I've done a few such projects for the C64: C=Key: A converter that allows one to use PS/2 keyboards (including the much loved Model M) on your C64/128/VIC/etc. uIEC: Use CF and/or SD cards as drives on your CBM machine. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations (X) brain at jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! Home: http://www.jbrain.com From auringer at tds.net Thu Mar 5 17:42:13 2009 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:42:13 -0600 Subject: Fwd: VAX field maintenance print sets Message-ID: <20090305174214.E13XE.58447.root@webfep14> Hello, Some of you may recall this post I sent way back in November. I received a couple of responses to the original offer, but I failed to follow through (life intervened). I have been in communication with Guy Sotomayer, who was the original first offer. He is still willing to "rescue" these things, but already has copies of them. So, we decided to see if anyone else is interested in them. If you are interested in them, I will send them off for the cost of shipping. Otherwise I will let Guy rescue them from my evil lair. :) In addition to the list below, I have found the field maintenance print set for the RP07 drive. This pile of paper will increase the weight by about 13lbs. Point of origin is still Madison, WI 53714 USA I would really like to clear this stuff out as soon as I can. Thanks for listening, Jon > Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:19:12 -0600 > From: Jon Auringer > To: "cctalk at classiccmp.org" > Subject: VAX field maintenance print sets > > Hi all, > > While cleaning, I have come across the following field maintenance print sets. I am inclined to dump them in the recycle bin, unless someone _really_ wants them. The total weight is about 22lbs from Madison, WI. > > All are "B" size (11x17") - > > UNIT ASSEMBLY 11780 (3" worth) > KU780 > (2) 11780 MEMORY ASSY > TAPE DRIVE TU78 > TEE16 SYSTEM > MAGNETIC TAPE DRIVE TE16 > H9206-M EXPANDER CAB > > If interested, reply soon. > > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer at tds.net From chrise at pobox.com Thu Mar 5 06:54:58 2009 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:58 -0600 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> References: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> Message-ID: <20090305125458.GG17419@n0jcf.net> On Wednesday (03/04/2009 at 11:18PM -0500), Jim Scheef wrote: > Is ANY of this discussion actually about buying paper tape? (other than > the first 3 messages) I think three messages... I was wondering if anyone was able to actually get 1" tape from WNC? When I talked to them about a month ago, they had none and did not expect to have stock until at least April. Did that timeline change? Chris From jeflittl at cisco.com Thu Mar 5 12:08:32 2009 From: jeflittl at cisco.com (Jeff Little (jeflittl)) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:08:32 -0800 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ethan: I can tell you that the Intercept Jr. was built, not in a regular factory setting, but in a sort of glorified lab that we put together on the ground floor of the same building in which the fab line for the 6100 existed. That location was later abandoned by Intersil when it was purchased by Harris Semi and was declared a federal toxic clean-up superfund site. It appears that the underground tanks in which Intersil stored it's cleaning solvents from the fab line leaked and contaminated all the ground around. The building itself sat empty for almost two decades and then was demolished in the late 1990s. Today it is a large patch of gravel on Tantau Avenue in Cupertino, California. The Intercept Jr. was originally conceived as a demo and educational product to promote the IM6100. A series of classes to teach assembly language programming were developed that used it as the primary lab tool. It was inspired by the KIM-I single-board computer, if you remember that unit. The most interesting application for it that I can recall was the adaptation of the main board by a team of geologists working at the Menlo Park US Geographic Survey office to be the heart of a remote data collection device for seismic sensors that were placed up and down the San Andreas Fault. The extreme low power consumption of the IM6100 made it ideal for battery-driven applications and the compatibility with the DEC PDP-8 meant that the scientists were comfortable with programming it. The success of the IM6100 itself was always limited. Intersil opted for PDP-8 compatibility and struck a deal with Digital to do the microprocessor version so that developers would have access to the rich PDP-8 SW library, including TECO (an early word processor), OS/8, spreadsheet-like programs, BASIC, FORTAN, C compliers, a programmable calculator that ran in under 4K whose name escapes me at the moment, and a whole lot more. Intersil, which was a fairly small outfit at the time, did not have to do any real SW development of its own. I and my boss (Thampy Thomas, later founder of NexGen) were the entire SW team for the IM6100 and we did it in our spare time because our first responsibility was to be the applications support team for the product. The total transistor count in the IM6100 is around 4000, which is nanoscopic by today's standards. I personally did a lot of the mask checking for the product by hand with colored pencils and a magnifying glass. The design lead engineer for the IM6100 project was a gentleman named Frank Shenstrom. He was laid off by Intersil shortly after the design was completed during the next semiconductor down-turn, around 1976. The engineering manager for the project was a fellow named Shep Hume. Unfortunately, Digital just could not be convinced to let the SW be used for the low prices needed to attract potential personal computer users (though we didn't call them that at the time). They still charged license fees that were sized for the mini-computer market, not the micro. The PDP-8 was very mature at the time and giving the SW away for free would have cost them little revenue loss on their PDP-16 and coming VAX products. There was one fellow I remember who was working on building a low-cost 8K machine as a future product. His design could have been the first really popular personal computer if DEC had just been able to see the light on SW pricing. The history of the personal computer could have been quite different if that had come to pass. Regards, Jeff PS: It is interesting to note that I was working for Compaq at the time that they acquired what was left of DEC many years later. How the mighty had fallen. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan.dicks at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 9:30 AM To: Jeff Little (jeflittl); cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Intersil Intercept Jr On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Jeff Little (jeflittl) wrote: > To Whom it may Concern: > > What is all this stuff about the Intercept Jr? Some of us still play with 12-bit machines, and some of us also have a tube or two of IM6100s and the odd IM6100 lying about. There's been some on-and-off talk about designing a simple 4K IM6100 board that would, by necessity, resemble an Intercept Jr. > I was the designer of that little demo computer way back in the 1970s > when I was working for Intersil. Neat! It's always great to hear from someone who was making the stuff that we bought (or gazed at longingly, unable to afford). I still have a 1978 special issue of Popular Electronics I saved for the Cosmac Elf article that also has a "complete" list of all micro computers for sale at the time. The Intercept Jr is in there, and I remember it because it mentions PDP-8/e compatibility. > If anyone get's this message, are there some specific questions you > might have? I don't have any specific questions, but I'm sure you have an interesting story or two about tricks of the design or a manufacturing issue or perhaps even of an "interesting" customer. > There was also a larger version called the Intercept that I designed > and we built first which was a full-blown PDP-8/E equivalent with 4K > of 12-bit RAM, a full front panel, and a current-loop async serial > interface that could be connected to an ASR-33 teletype and would run > a full set of Digital diags and 4K-version software. I think I remember reading about it, but I never saw one. > ?I believe eventually the Intercept > was capable of running OS/8. ? That required a 2-bank memory of 8K of > 12-bit RAM as I recall. Yes. OS/8 does require 8K minimum. I have a PDP-8/i I've been trying to upgrade since I was in High School to be able to do more than run paper tape on it. -ethan From brain at jbrain.com Thu Mar 5 18:29:57 2009 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:29:57 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B06E85.70003@jbrain.com> Brian Lanning wrote: > The same is true for networking. Someone has made ethernet connectors > for the 2e and c64. Coincidentally, I'm readying an Ethernet cartridge for the C64/C128 this week for production: www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/nic/ It's jumper configurable (since this crowd loves jumpers) to allow a theoretical maximum of 16 ethernet cards in a C64 :-) (theoretically, since I'm not sure what the point would be, and the bus would degrade too far after a few carts). I can definitely see value in 2 carts, though: C64 firewall :-) (or 3 cards, with a Internal, External, and DMZ segments...) Jim From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 5 18:48:21 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:48:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, Unless you killed them, AND waited out the statute of limitations plus a bunch more time, it doesn't work that way. We've told you before. From dgahling at hotmail.com Thu Mar 5 19:19:43 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:19:43 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: you're wrong. there is true abandonware. if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. and when you work for a company, any code you write is typically owned by the company (you lose all rights to it). "typically". you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. unless the author had special provisions in their contract or worked something out before the company died, or someone picked it up, it's free game. maybe it doesn't happen a lot, but there were literally HUNDREDS of companies that disappeared without a trace, registered only to a PO box, and not to a person. I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue me... Dan. > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:48:21 -0800 > From: cisin at xenosoft.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? > > On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > > I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, > > Unless you killed them, > AND waited out the statute of limitations plus a bunch more time, > it doesn't work that way. > > We've told you before. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 5 19:37:02 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:37:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20090305172501.C96050@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > you're wrong. there is true abandonware. WRONG. > if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. > and when you work for a company, any code you write is typically owned by the company (you lose all rights to it). > "typically". And the company is legally, a "sole proprietorship", a "opartnership", or a corporation. > you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases > to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. Did you kill ALL of them? > unless the author had special provisions in their contract or worked > something out before the company died, or someone picked it up, it's > free game. WRONG The assets of the company may revert to its creditors, and the creditors might not WANT IP assets, and give them up, but never "free game" > maybe it doesn't happen a lot, but there were literally HUNDREDS of > companies that disappeared without a trace, registered only to a PO box, > and not to a person. "Without a trace", meaning that YOU don't know where to find them, is NOT legally the same as "non-existent". Your best possibility might be ot DECLARE yourself to be a creditor. THEN "not being findable" could be legally converted into default, permitting you to acquire assets. > I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called > "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue > me... Did you kill ALL of them? I'm not affiliated with Magnetic Manipulations, Inc. Whoever currently owns the assets might not CARE, but that is NOT the same as not owning. The closest in USA law to your fantasy of "abandonware" would be if the "rightful owner" (legal term) can be coerced or cajoled into explicitly signing rights into public domain, OR sufficiently after the end of lifetime of the owner. Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't easily find? From useddec at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 20:21:22 2009 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:21:22 -0600 Subject: VAX 11/780 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20090303184646.62385bcflqdf917q@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <624966d60903051821o7bdeb64ame2dc61cedbd6fe61@mail.gmail.com> The 11/03's are gettinng harder to find. I do have a complete field service kit (in 3 or 4 cases) and 50 or so extra boards. There was an 11/785 with tape and disk within 50 miles of me, if I can contact the owner, I'll try to get a config on it. Paul 0 On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > > Item 150330289821. A bit expensive for my tastes. Makes me wish I was > > independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements for > > such a beast :). > > No console? And maybe a missing board or two on the left side, isn't that > the CPU side? > > paul > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 5 20:40:20 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:40:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20090305183446.I98709@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > you're wrong. there is true abandonware. > . . . > I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called > "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue > me... Even if there were such a thing as "abandonware", it would CERTAINLY not be applicable without making a "good faith" effort to find the rightful owner. That does NOT mean just the yellow pages and Google. Where was Magnetic Manipulations Inc. incorporated? (THAT is what the Inc means). Who filed the articles of incorporation? Don't know? -- then you never had any intent of making a good faith effort to find the owner, and "abandonware" is merely a euphemism for theft from those who aren't right there to stop you. From lynchaj at yahoo.com Thu Mar 5 20:43:33 2009 From: lynchaj at yahoo.com (Andrew Lynch) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 21:43:33 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges Message-ID: ________________________________ There is/was an IEEE standard for the S-100 bus; why not hew to that, regarding supply voltages? If I were designing new "retro" boards today, however, I'd go with one of the switching regulators that can be had in TO-220 packages. Basically the same appearance as the veneered and generated 7805, but far more efficient. Cheers, Chuck -----REPLY----- Hi Chuck! Yes, the S-100 crates I have at home all use +8V and 18V/-16V rails from the linear power supplies. I understand where the power standard came from and agree the standard values would be the ideal solution. However I am working on a low cost small S-100 backplane project and I'd like to know what flexibility I have with regards to power supplies in order to keep costs low. 8V SMPSUs aren't exactly common these days and you'd need at least one of those and another 18/-18V SMPSU for a S-100 backplane to work properly. Practically speaking, the linear power supplies are unregulated and generate a range of voltages probably in the 8-10V range as Allison mentioned. I am thinking a 9V and a pair of 15V SMPSUs might be just good enough to work if not a long term solution. Since my goal is to keep costs low I am trying to find less expensive options and still have a useable system. The intent of the project is a small bench unit for testing and repair of S-100 boards but not a full blown system. I agree with Barry and Dwight to keep the voltage rails just about 3V above the 7805/7812 SCRs output for efficient regulation without excessive heat. However, 9V SMPSUs are really common and cheap on eBay and could be readily converted if not optimal, at least they'd be useable for a while without destroying anything. Add a pair of 15V SMPSUs and for less than $50 you'd have a usable S-100 PS system. I don't think you could make a S-100 linear PS for that low cost. Maybe I could put a high current silicon diode in line with the 9V SMPSU and drop it to like 8.4V? That'd be closer to the 8V standard. I posted a schematic and PCB layout on the N8VEM wiki but whenever I post the URL to CCTALK it never makes it to the list. I suspect it's being spam filtered or something. I believe the actual useable ranges of the S-100 unregulated power supply is about 8V to 10V, 15 to 20V, and -15 to -20V. For current capacity since the PCB is only 4 slots, I am thinking on the order of 1V per slot should be sufficient. There are some older S-100 boards that will exceed that limit like those massive 8K SRAM boards but if you are working on one of those probably not all the slots would be used. At any rate, I am swamped with my current N8VEM related projects and the S-100 backplane project is on slow simmer for a while. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 5 20:56:53 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:56:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090305185503.P98709@shell.lmi.net> > There is/was an IEEE standard for the S-100 bus; why not hew to that, > regarding supply voltages? But, . . . would the standard, even early versions, such as presented by George Morrow and Howard Fullme at the West Coast Computer Faire, really embody the SPIRIT of S100 without at least a few non-standard signals? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 5 20:56:33 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:56:33 -0700 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B090E1.2030005@jetnet.ab.ca> Andrew Lynch wrote: > > -----REPLY----- > > Hi Chuck! Yes, the S-100 crates I have at home all use +8V and 18V/-16V > rails from the linear power supplies. I understand where the power standard > came from and agree the standard values would be the ideal solution. > However I am working on a low cost small S-100 backplane project and I'd > like to know what flexibility I have with regards to power supplies in order > to keep costs low. > Andrew Lynch > What would be the use of this small S-100 system? 8 or 16 bit cpu's? The best option might be 4 slots , with the basic Z80 cpu, memory and I/O on the mother board. Ben From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 5 21:02:35 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:02:35 -0700 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <20090305185503.P98709@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090305185503.P98709@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B0924B.7010402@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin wrote: >> There is/was an IEEE standard for the S-100 bus; why not hew to that, >> regarding supply voltages? > > But, . . . > would the standard, even early versions, such as presented by George > Morrow and Howard Fullme at the West Coast Computer Faire, really embody > the SPIRIT of S100 without at least a few non-standard signals? > That is why you have a 6100 on the S-100 bus and data lines D9,D10,D11,D12. :) From cclist at sydex.com Thu Mar 5 21:09:20 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:09:20 -0800 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B02360.13736.11799B97@cclist.sydex.com> Hi Andrew, Everyone's right--the regulation on the old linear S-100 boxes was none too good--just a big transformer, a bridge rectifier or three, a couple of large caps and that was it. My Integrand box has a transformer you could arc-weld with. On the other hand, the MITS 8800 has an incredibly wimpy supply. I have memories of S100 boards with 7805 TO-220 or LM323 TO-3 regulators leaving nice dark scorch marks on the PCB. That's another reason that I like Multibus better--the regulation is in the PSU, not on the board. If you use one of those 9v SMPSUs and it's a single-output unit, I suspect that you'll be able to tweak the output voltage down by twiddling a pot onboard. At worst, you might need to hook a couple of diodes in series with the output. Speaking as an old timer, a switching supply for S100 seems almost sacrilegious. But you go with what you can get. They're not exactly making big power transformers nowadays--and a switcher allows you to sell to the overseas folks. Best of luck with your project! Will your backplane have active termination? That was always a big plus on some of the better systems. Cheers, Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Thu Mar 5 21:11:31 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:11:31 -0800 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <20090305185503.P98709@shell.lmi.net> References: , <20090305185503.P98709@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B023E3.19365.117B9E6C@cclist.sydex.com> On 5 Mar 2009 at 18:56, Fred Cisin wrote: > But, . . . > would the standard, even early versions, such as presented by George > Morrow and Howard Fullme at the West Coast Computer Faire, really embody > the SPIRIT of S100 without at least a few non-standard signals? Heh. Was it the SOL-20 that tied the Data In and Data Out lines together? Would you consider the late Godbout/Compupro boxes to be the height of S-100 development? Cheers, Chuck From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 5 21:21:53 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:21:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <49B023E3.19365.117B9E6C@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <840870.15478.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> CompuPro and Cromenco were state of the ART IEEE 696. The back place was supposed to be able to handle higher than a wopping 10MHz Michael Hart Trader Kiosk 201-290-3796 michael at traderkiosk.com imsaicollector at yahoo.com I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: From: Chuck Guzis Subject: RE: S-100 power supply voltage ranges To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:11 PM On 5 Mar 2009 at 18:56, Fred Cisin wrote: > But, . . . > would the standard, even early versions, such as presented by George > Morrow and Howard Fullme at the West Coast Computer Faire, really embody > the SPIRIT of S100 without at least a few non-standard signals? Heh. Was it the SOL-20 that tied the Data In and Data Out lines together? Would you consider the late Godbout/Compupro boxes to be the height of S-100 development? Cheers, Chuck From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Mar 5 22:02:55 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:02:55 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49B0A06F.7040507@oldskool.org> Gene Buckle wrote: > It appears to only cover the 1200 and the conversation died last October... I've always used a scan converter. You can get 15-20 yr-old broadcast scan converters on ebay for $200 or less, and they put out pretty good 4:2:2 component... -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 5 22:10:12 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:10:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49B0A06F.7040507@oldskool.org> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> <49B0A06F.7040507@oldskool.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Jim Leonard wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: >> It appears to only cover the 1200 and the conversation died last October... > > I've always used a scan converter. You can get 15-20 yr-old broadcast scan > converters on ebay for $200 or less, and they put out pretty good 4:2:2 > component... > The problem there is the $200 part. :) Just not in the budget right now. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 5 22:14:24 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:14:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: <49B023E3.19365.117B9E6C@cclist.sydex.com> References: , <20090305185503.P98709@shell.lmi.net> <49B023E3.19365.117B9E6C@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090305201220.P2942@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Would you consider the late Godbout/Compupro boxes to be the height > of S-100 development? I'm far from expert, but I wouldn't argue AGAINST that statement From cclist at sydex.com Thu Mar 5 22:22:25 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:22:25 -0800 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: , <49B0A06F.7040507@oldskool.org>, Message-ID: <49B03481.31881.11BC7397@cclist.sydex.com> On 5 Mar 2009 at 20:10, Gene Buckle wrote: > The problem there is the $200 part. :) Just not in the budget right now. Wonder when someone will start hacking DTV set-top boxes to do scan conversion? I noticed that one I bought (with coupon) had an RS-232 port on the back. Hooked up a terminal set 9600-n-8-1 and darned if I didn't get a register display and command prompt! I don't recognize the OS however. Cheers, Chuck From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 22:41:38 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 22:41:38 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903052041h6474b5d3mca75b7a9e50369be@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Joachim Thiemann wrote: > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 17:03, Gene Buckle wrote: > Given this, can one hook a SD/SDHC card to the Amiga parallel port, > and then write a "sdhc.device" that presents a block device that can > be put into the Mountlist and be accessed by dos.library or one of the > ms-dos capable libraries (messydos?) and thus present a non-bootable > mass storage device for the amiga? ?So, you boot with a custom > workbench disk, that loads the driver, mounts the SDHC card and then > startup-sequence hands control over > to a script on the SDHC card. ?ISTR this was commonly done for romless > drive addons on the 500 - and I had such a setup for my 1000, where my > bootup workbech disk loaded the janus drivers and then handed control > over to a MFM hard disk in the Sidecar. That's starting to sound like a backwards version of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Amiga-500-1000-2000-3000-Floppy-Simulator-w-MPDOS-Pro_W0QQitemZ320345362723QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item320345362723&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 I've also seen a gadget for the c64 (or was it an apple 2e?) that connects the serial port to a PC. You run some software on the PC which then looks like a hard drive to the old computer. Like a file server over a serial connection. brian From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Mar 5 23:03:32 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:03:32 -0600 Subject: Abandonware (was: Re: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements?) In-Reply-To: References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B0AEA4.20009@oldskool.org> Dan Gahlinger wrote: > you're wrong. there is true abandonware. No, there is not. And I'm going to qualify this statement by dropping the bomb that I created the modern form of Abandonware. I was not only one of the original members of the first "ring", but I created the public infrastructure that evolved into what you recognize as typical abandonware today (ie. a public presence with decent websites, search engines, and linked networks; had I not done this, the name "Abandonware" and its concept would have died in the internal underground network we had). I also hold the dubious honor of being the first website that the then-named IDSA sent a cease-and-desist letter to shut down. (Which I complied with.) I never liked the term Abandonware because it's not a legal concept; it's a dreamer's concept. I was always in favor of changing the name of our ring to "oldwarez", because that was not only technically correct, but had the right spirit (we were going to preserve history whether companies liked it or not). Obviously, I never got the name changed. > if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. Copyrights are inherent, and inherited. When a company goes under, their assets are picked up by the creditors, typically a bank. They are always owned by someone... ...unless they are explicitly dismissed and given away, like in the case of Polarware / Penguin Software. The owner of the company declared all the old tools ("Graphics Magician") and games ("Transylvania", etc.) public domain and offers them freely on his Penguin Software history website. But that is not "abandonware" -- that is public domain. There is no such thing (legally) as "abandonware". > you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. Copyright is 75 years, but that is not necessarily what protects things. Intellectual Property Rights is what you should be learning about. Go look it up. I wrote an article about all of this for MobyGames; it's dated, but it's here if you would like to read it: http://www.mobygames.com/featured_article/feature,7/ (Yes, I consulted actual lawyers.) BTW, I founded MobyGames too. MobyGames was my effort to get as close to the historical appreciation aspect of what the abandonware movement partially stood for, without offering illegal downloads. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Mar 5 23:04:06 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:04:06 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <49B0053E.3070901@verizon.net> <49B0A06F.7040507@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <49B0AEC6.2030707@oldskool.org> Gene Buckle wrote: > On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Jim Leonard wrote: > >> Gene Buckle wrote: >>> It appears to only cover the 1200 and the conversation died last >>> October... >> >> I've always used a scan converter. You can get 15-20 yr-old broadcast >> scan converters on ebay for $200 or less, and they put out pretty good >> 4:2:2 component... >> > The problem there is the $200 part. :) Just not in the budget right now. I've seen cheap ones that are 18 years old for $60... -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From wdonzelli at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 23:11:43 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 00:11:43 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. Corporations almost never die. -- Will From g-wright at att.net Thu Mar 5 23:32:25 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:32:25 +0000 Subject: Last Call: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... In-Reply-To: <200903030849.45881.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <030620090532.2477.49B0B566000D9A13000009AD22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> Lyle. If there are any left I could use 1 , - Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net -------------- Original message from Lyle Bickley : -------------- > Requests have been "straggling" in just about every day since I made this > offer, most for one but some for a number of these boards. > > In fairness to those who signed up right away (including myself), I am > setting a deadline of Thursday, March 5 to get your order in. On Friday, > March 6, I will send out an email to all who tentatively said they wanted > a/some board(s) on what should be our next step in making this bulk > purchase happen. > > Regards, > Lyle > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: More Info RE: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... > Date: Thursday 26 February 2009 > From: Lyle Bickley > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > I've received a number of responses from folks - and a few questions. > Here's answers to the most common questions: > > 1) Is there a warranty? Yes the boards are guaranteed by the dealer to not > be DOA. I just re-checked - and he's agreeable to a 15 day warranty. My > guess is that if you went a few more days, he'd cover it - but he would > like whoever gets the boards to check them out right away. ALL boards will > be pre-tested by the dealer on a QBUS system using RT before shipping. All > will have the latest EPROMS. > > 2) Is it standard QBUS (i.e., not "S") Yes. > > 3) Is the SCSI port standard 50-pin? Yes. > > Lyle > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... > Date: Thursday 26 February 2009 > From: Lyle Bickley > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > I was chatting with a DEC broker recently regarding SCSI controllers for > DEC gear - when he mentioned that he had a quantity of Emulex UC07's > available. > > UC07's are QBUS cards which have a single SCSI port and support either MSCP > or TMSCP (in RT land, that would be either DU or MU devices). The manual > states that the UC07 is compatible with RT, RSX, RSTS/E and Ultrix > versions which support MSCP or TMSCP. > > The dealers initial price was high (as expected). However, he then > added - "I'd be willing to do better for hobbyists - as long as they > commit that the boards will only be used for hobby purposes - and not for > commercial use". > > So here's the "deal": $235 per UC07 plus shipping from Mountain View, CA > (FedEx Ground). > > I've paid MUCH more for SCSI interfaces for my DEC QBUS and UNIBUS > systems - so IMHO, this is a great deal. > > The broker said he did not want to deal "individually with a bunch of > hobbyists" - so he asked if I would be willing to consolodate a single > order of UC07's to him. I reluctantly said "yes", as this is not my > business and I'm not interested in making money on this deal - only > covering costs. > > To get a sense of interest, please reply to me privately if you'd like one > or more if these "critters". > > The manual for the UC07 is available on bitsavers. A link to a bitsavers > mirror is below: > > http://bitsavers.vt100.net/pdf/emulex/UC0751001-F_UC07_Feb90.pdf > > Regards, > Lyle > -- > Lyle Bickley > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > http://bickleywest.com > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Lyle Bickley > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > http://bickleywest.com > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Lyle Bickley > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > http://bickleywest.com > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From rtellason at verizon.net Fri Mar 6 00:38:12 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:38:12 -0500 Subject: Not abandoned, but... Message-ID: <200903060138.12891.rtellason@verizon.net> One of the things that I'd have liked to do with my Osborne Executive is to put double-sided drives into it. That single-sided nonsense was always an irritation. :-) The problem with this is that I don't know if there is a "standard" format for this. Maybe what the O-3 (Vixen?) used, perhaps? I know that had DS drives in it. One thing I'd need even if I dropped a couple of DS drives in there is to be able to format DS disks. Which means I'd need source code for their formatting utility. Does anybody know what happened to this stuff when Osborne went under? Who bought that stuff up? Where such source might be found? Or if it even exists? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Fri Mar 6 00:53:19 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:53:19 +0100 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090305125458.GG17419@n0jcf.net> References: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> <20090305125458.GG17419@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:54:58 -0600 > From: chrise at pobox.com > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > CC: General at sepia.pobox.com; On-Topic at dewey.classiccmp.org; cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? > > On Wednesday (03/04/2009 at 11:18PM -0500), Jim Scheef wrote: >> Is ANY of this discussion actually about buying paper tape? (other than >> the first 3 messages) > > I think three messages... > > I was wondering if anyone was able to actually get 1" tape from WNC? > When I talked to them about a month ago, they had none and did not expect > to have stock until at least April. > > Did that timeline change? > > Chris Hi Chris, I received an answer from WNC after a question about the shipping costs. I wanted to buy a quart package (7 rolls) and some 10 4" blue containers. However, the shipping calculator on their site indicated a shipping cost which was way too much (shipping to The Netherlands). They would look into it ... that was 3 weeks ago, and I never heard back. But there is also good news! Herbert pointed me to ebay item #230099227038. This guy, Jeff, lists 1" paper rolls for just $4 per box. And in a box are 7 rolls! That is a bargain, and I bought 2 boxes. Shipping costst are $101.50, but still 14 rolls for $110 is cheap. I am keeping 2 rolls, the others go to other listmembers in the UK and Sweden. So, if somebody needs 1" paper tape, go for #230099227038 :-) When I bought the 2 boxes he still had 39 left ... Question. If somebody orders at WNC, I am interested in buying 8 to 10 R30 blue containers at $3.05 each. thanks, - Henk. From cclist at sydex.com Fri Mar 6 01:17:11 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:17:11 -0800 Subject: Not abandoned, but... In-Reply-To: <200903060138.12891.rtellason@verizon.net> References: <200903060138.12891.rtellason@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49B05D77.5599.125C9A8D@cclist.sydex.com> On 6 Mar 2009 at 1:38, Roy J. Tellason wrote: > Does anybody know what happened to this stuff when Osborne went under? Who > bought that stuff up? Where such source might be found? Or if it even > exists? Osborne Nuevo or Vixen might be a better choice. I susepect that there were writeups in the FOGHorn about this stuff-- and probably code for it in the FOG archives. Darned if I know what became of them, though. Cheers, Chuck From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Fri Mar 6 02:03:03 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 00:03:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Siliconix DG506AR Message-ID: According to a datasheet[1] I found, a Siliconix DG506AR is an analogue switch in CMOS. What are some applications for this? I found a pair of them in white ceramic in my junk pile and I don't know where they came from. [1] http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Databooks-4/Book-27459.pdf -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From jrr at flippers.com Thu Mar 5 18:21:28 2009 From: jrr at flippers.com (John Robertson) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:21:28 -0800 Subject: Roland DG CC122 CGA monitor information Message-ID: <49B06C88.3070807@flippers.com> I have an old Roland DG CC122 (switchable IBM/Apple) CGA colour monitor and I was wondering if anyone here had any information on it. Trying to find out if it has a monochrome mode for a test fixture application... Thanks, John :-#)# From mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG Thu Mar 5 19:53:18 2009 From: mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG (der Mouse) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:53:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <20090305172501.C96050@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> <20090305172501.C96050@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200903060203.VAA13754@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > The assets of the company may revert to its creditors, And if there are no creditors? If the company ceases to exist because nobody pays the annual (or whatever) fees for its maintenance, without creditors, what happens to its assets? (I'm not trying to argue either side of this question; I'm just curious about something that appears to me to be an interesting corner case.) > Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't easily > find? Copyright violation - even if that's what this is, a poin ton which I am deliberately not chipping in - is not theft. Speaking as though it is (using words like "stealing" for it) does not help anyone, possibly excepting those (such as IP lawyers) who profit from the resulting confusion, and certainly does nothing to incline readers believe your other assertions. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 5 20:21:09 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:21:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: offlist - RE: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? Message-ID: <939629.10913.qm@web65501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> ok, I'm interested. Incidentally what does the code do LOL. --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Dan Gahlinger wrote: From: Dan Gahlinger Subject: RE: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 8:19 PM you're wrong. there is true abandonware. if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. and when you work for a company, any code you write is typically owned by the company (you lose all rights to it). "typically". you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. unless the author had special provisions in their contract or worked something out before the company died, or someone picked it up, it's free game. maybe it doesn't happen a lot, but there were literally HUNDREDS of companies that disappeared without a trace, registered only to a PO box, and not to a person. I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue me... Dan. > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:48:21 -0800 > From: cisin at xenosoft.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? > > On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > > I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, > > Unless you killed them, > AND waited out the statute of limitations plus a bunch more time, > it doesn't work that way. > > We've told you before. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734 From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 5 20:28:55 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:28:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? Message-ID: <709589.13208.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I'll need an explanation of how simply viewing 25 year old code is tantamount to "stealing". Utilizing it w/o modification could be. Much much code is found in textbooks, internet, etc. There's generally not too much that's *original* (i.e worthy of protection) that was written 25 years ago. I personally don't want to even look at code that is *original* or *owned* in any sense. In other words I don't want to be influenced by any code that, if emulated to whatever extent, and found_it's_way into a creation of mine, could cause a problem if you know what I mean. But I find it awfully hard to believe that there's much that's 25 years old that would fall into that category. Looking at something is simply that. If some printouts were mistakenly tossed out and I happened to find them, am I a "thief" for picking them up and checking them out??? If code was posted on the internet, and happened to actually *belong* to someone in whatever sense, am I breaking the law by viewing or even downloading and studying that code? --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Fred Cisin wrote: From: Fred Cisin Subject: RE: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 8:37 PM On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > you're wrong. there is true abandonware. WRONG. > if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. > and when you work for a company, any code you write is typically owned by the company (you lose all rights to it). > "typically". And the company is legally, a "sole proprietorship", a "opartnership", or a corporation. > you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases > to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. Did you kill ALL of them? > unless the author had special provisions in their contract or worked > something out before the company died, or someone picked it up, it's > free game. WRONG The assets of the company may revert to its creditors, and the creditors might not WANT IP assets, and give them up, but never "free game" > maybe it doesn't happen a lot, but there were literally HUNDREDS of > companies that disappeared without a trace, registered only to a PO box, > and not to a person. "Without a trace", meaning that YOU don't know where to find them, is NOT legally the same as "non-existent". Your best possibility might be ot DECLARE yourself to be a creditor.? THEN "not being findable" could be legally converted into default, permitting you to acquire assets. > I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called > "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue > me... Did you kill ALL of them? I'm not affiliated with Magnetic Manipulations, Inc. Whoever currently owns the assets might not CARE, but that is NOT the same as not owning. The closest in USA law to your fantasy of "abandonware" would be if the "rightful owner" (legal term) can be coerced or cajoled into explicitly signing rights into public domain, OR sufficiently after the end of lifetime of the owner. Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't easily find? From mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG Thu Mar 5 22:43:05 2009 From: mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG (der Mouse) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:43:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <20090305183446.I98709@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090305164525.P94353@shell.lmi.net> <20090305183446.I98709@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200903060443.XAA14482@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > [...], and "abandonware" is merely a euphemism for theft from those > who aren't right there to stop you. Copyright violation is not theft. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From Mark.Brennan at ie.fujitsu.com Fri Mar 6 02:21:09 2009 From: Mark.Brennan at ie.fujitsu.com (Brennan Mark) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:21:09 -0000 Subject: Manuals & books that need a new home In-Reply-To: <20090305121934.2FHO1.51528.root@webfep14> References: <20090305121934.2FHO1.51528.root@webfep14> Message-ID: <299EB6FC242FCF47AA4118ED9365BF9401A9448D@EUROPEV004.europe.fs.fujitsu.com> Hello Jon, I would be interested in the CDC product data sheets or any other brochures/datasheets etc that you may have as I have been colleting them and posting them on the following web site www.1000bit.com under the brochure heading if you had a list that would be great, I could then sort out a price for the lot plus I could cut down on shipping also, which is what I have been doing over the last few years Regards mark ________________________________________________________________________ ________________ Mark Brennan, System Engineer, Fujitsu Services, Airside Business Park, Swords, County Dublin, Ireland Mobile: +353-87-222-2326 Telephone: +353-1-813 6000 Facsimile: +353-1-813 6600 email: mark.brennan at ie.fujitsu.com Web: ie.fujitsu.com This e-mail is only for the use of its intended recipient. Its contents are subject to a duty of confidence and may be privileged. Fujitsu Services does not guarantee that this e-mail has not been intercepted and amended or that it is virus-free. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jon Auringer Sent: 05 March 2009 18:20 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Manuals & books that need a new home Hi all, I have the following items that are looking for a new home. Tektronix 9100 DAS manual SCO Xenix manual set w/Excelan "The LAN Workplace" manual & disks Books on 1-2-3 & dBase Misc hardware manuals (PC) Pictures are available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jja572 Make me an offer above shipping cost to make it worth my time to box it up. Anything not claimed in the next week or so shall most likely end up in the recycle bin. More to items to come in the near future. Jon From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Fri Mar 6 02:28:59 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:28:59 -0800 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? References: <01C99DB5.570422A0@host-208-72-122-189.dyn.295.ca> Message-ID: <49B0DECB.AE2C4B9@cs.ubc.ca> M H Stein wrote: > > IBM did indeed patent the rectangular holes used in their 80 column > cards. Whether the brass roller was a major factor is questionable; > after all, their competitors also used punched cards. > > But there's no question that the general acceptance of IBM's card > format and their locked-in customers were instrumental in IBM > becoming the giant that they did; while their competitiors struggled > during and after the depression, punch card sales helped IBM survive > and grow. As late as the mid-fifties punch card sales represented > 30% of IBM's bottom line; see: > http://www.cbi.umn.edu/hostedpublications/pdf/IBMRochesterHistory.pdf OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched cards from the 60's. They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit in the same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was they were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular notches and round holes, IIRC. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Mar 6 02:56:41 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:56:41 +0000 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1236329801.7875.134.camel@elric> On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 10:16 -0600, Brian Lanning wrote: > I'm greatly into this also. I have four amigas. I'm about to put > "hard drives" in two and replace one in a third with 2gb compact flash > cards attached to ide adapters. They're small, fast, quiet, and the > capacity is huge for the era. I've just recently fitted a SCSI-to-IDE bridge board and a 2GB flash drive that resembles three 40-pin IDE connectors stacked one on top of each other to my Emu ESI4000 sampler. It's about as fast as disk, but totally silent. *Totally* silent. You can't imagine how much nicer that is than the dentist's drill whine of the SCSI disk I was using before. Why are SCSI disks so damn noisy? Anyway, I can hear myself think and I don't need to use my bodge cable to spin down the hard disk when using a mike. Productivity soars (not really). Gordon From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Mar 6 03:11:26 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 06:11:26 -0300 Subject: Roland DG CC122 CGA monitor information References: <49B06C88.3070807@flippers.com> Message-ID: <07ff01c99e3c$a33362d0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> >I have an old Roland DG CC122 (switchable IBM/Apple) CGA colour monitor and >I was wondering if anyone here had any information on it. > Trying to find out if it has a monochrome mode for a test fixture > application... Composite video? Connect the composite signal thru a 75R resistor in the "G" and INTENSITY pin, and the same signal to the SYNC pin without the resistor, and of course, ground to ground. It works. From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Mar 6 04:12:42 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:12:42 -0300 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net><6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> > I've seriously contemplated making my own matching memory expansion module > for my VXL/30 A500 cpu accelerator. Fairly complicated because I have to > create a DRAM controller. Thinking FGPA w/ a pre-made memory controller > core. Something I could never understand: Why not using SRAM? We have tens of megabytes of SRAM today for cheap - useless pentium cache memory. And even SRAM chips, I have a 2MByte chip that costs almost nothing. Why all the hassle of using slow and refresh-dependent DRAM if SRAM is so easy to use?! From dm561 at torfree.net Fri Mar 6 04:26:41 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 05:26:41 -0500 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges Message-ID: <01C99E1C.22A855A0@host-208-72-122-5.dyn.295.ca> As a matter of fact Cromemco's later systems easily ran 68020s at 16.7 MHz on their S-100 / IEEE696 bus backplanes. mike ************************************* Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:21:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hart Subject: RE: S-100 power supply voltage ranges CompuPro and Cromenco were state of the ART IEEE 696. The back place was supposed to be able to handle higher than a wopping 10MHz Michael Hart Trader Kiosk 201-290-3796 michael at traderkiosk.com imsaicollector at yahoo.com I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: From: Chuck Guzis Subject: RE: S-100 power supply voltage ranges To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:11 PM On 5 Mar 2009 at 18:56, Fred Cisin wrote: > But, . . . > would the standard, even early versions, such as presented by George > Morrow and Howard Fullme at the West Coast Computer Faire, really embody > the SPIRIT of S100 without at least a few non-standard signals? Heh. Was it the SOL-20 that tied the Data In and Data Out lines together? Would you consider the late Godbout/Compupro boxes to be the height of S-100 development? Cheers, Chuck From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Mar 6 04:24:01 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:24:01 -0300 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net><6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com><6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <087401c99e46$b4055f00$b2b419bb@DeskJara> > Given this, can one hook a SD/SDHC card to the Amiga parallel port, > and then write a "sdhc.device" that presents a block device that can Joachim, for the non-IDE-Equipped amigas, I think a better approach would be a bootable IDE interface, which has schematics on the net, isn't all that complicated and would free you from the dammed diskette booting. CF cards are all-IDE compatible and easy to interface. From keithvz at verizon.net Fri Mar 6 08:57:07 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:57:07 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net><6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49B139C3.6060302@verizon.net> Alexandre Souza wrote: >> I've seriously contemplated making my own matching memory expansion >> module for my VXL/30 A500 cpu accelerator. Fairly complicated because >> I have to create a DRAM controller. Thinking FGPA w/ a pre-made >> memory controller core. > > Something I could never understand: Why not using SRAM? Alexandre, I haven't ruled out SRAM. As a matter of fact, it was my first choice. It just seems like SRAM (and memory in general) is somewhat hard to buy new in the right form factor and in low quantities. I'd prefer something that is wide, 32-bits, or I could use two 16's. And I need 8mb. And it needs to be fast. The memory would need to be faster than 60ns. I'll be losing time through the fpga, so faster memory is definitely a plus. I've looked at digikey, mouser, newark, and I can't seem to find memory that fits the bill. What part number should I buy and where can I buy it in low quantities? > We have tens of megabytes of SRAM today for cheap - useless pentium > cache memory. And even SRAM chips, I have a 2MByte chip that costs > almost nothing. Why all the hassle of using slow and refresh-dependent > DRAM if SRAM is so easy to use?! Thanks Keith From brianlanning at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 09:06:25 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 09:06:25 -0600 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <1236329801.7875.134.camel@elric> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <1236329801.7875.134.camel@elric> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903060706x10bdff38yca5bee69d10aff96@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:56 AM, Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: > On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 10:16 -0600, Brian Lanning wrote: > I've just recently fitted a SCSI-to-IDE bridge board and a 2GB flash > drive that resembles three 40-pin IDE connectors stacked one on top of > each other to my Emu ESI4000 sampler. ?It's about as fast as disk, but > totally silent. ?*Totally* silent. ?You can't imagine how much nicer > that is than the dentist's drill whine of the SCSI disk I was using > before. ?Why are SCSI disks so damn noisy? ?Anyway, I can hear myself > think and I don't need to use my bodge cable to spin down the hard disk > when using a mike. ?Productivity soars (not really). It's sounding like I just need to watch ebay for a scsi to ide bridge at the right price. I think hard drive manufacturers assume scsi drives will be in noisy server rooms instead of people's livingrooms. I think this results in quieter, i don't know what, bearings maybe, in the drives. Maybe it's the drive motors. Maybe more reliable drive motors are just noisier for some reason. I'm switching to CF for all my old machines and SSD for my new machines as soon as it's practical. brian From joachim.thiemann at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 09:07:32 2009 From: joachim.thiemann at gmail.com (Joachim Thiemann) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:07:32 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <087401c99e46$b4055f00$b2b419bb@DeskJara> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> <087401c99e46$b4055f00$b2b419bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <4affc5e0903060707v6ef52952n5f41d1184e87ea7b@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 05:24, Alexandre Souza wrote: >> Given this, can one hook a SD/SDHC card to the Amiga parallel port, >> and then write a "sdhc.device" that presents a block device that can > > ? Joachim, for the non-IDE-Equipped amigas, I think a better approach would > be a bootable IDE interface, which has schematics on the net, isn't all that > complicated and would free you from the dammed diskette booting. CF cards > are all-IDE compatible and easy to interface. True, I have seen a (non-booting) IDE interface, and it is pretty easy - a CF based one could be simpler, since it could be done with a 8-bit interface only at a small loss of speed. However, all bootable interfaces would require a ROM to tell kickstart how to use it. (I am thinking of something that would work with an original A500). But at the expense of convenience, the SDHC parport interface would be super simple and thus cheap. In fact, the minimal implementation would require: - DB25 parport plug - protoboard - 6 resistors - a way to connect a SD card (could be soldering pins directly to a SD-microSD converter and one can still swap microSD cards) - some wire Thus no ROMs, microcontrollers, special PCB, large card-edge connectors, etc, etc... I might wire one up this weekend, and just try to talk to it from a simple asm program. Joe. -- Joachim Thiemann :: http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 6 09:34:43 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:34:43 -0800 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903060706x10bdff38yca5bee69d10aff96@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <1236329801.7875.134.camel@elric> <6dbe3c380903060706x10bdff38yca5bee69d10aff96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 9:06 AM -0600 3/6/09, Brian Lanning wrote: >I think hard drive manufacturers assume scsi drives will be in noisy >server rooms instead of people's livingrooms. I think this results in >quieter, i don't know what, bearings maybe, in the drives. Maybe it's >the drive motors. Maybe more reliable drive motors are just noisier >for some reason. My SCSI drives are among my noisiest, yet my Fibre Channel drives seem fairly quiet. I not sure if that is because of the drives, or the enclosure. Also how much of it is do to the age and amount of use the SCSI Drives we use have seen? Also the newer drives tend to run faster than most SATA and IDE/EIDE drives. The 10K and 15K drives are definitely louder. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Fri Mar 6 09:36:41 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:36:41 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> <49B139C3.6060302@verizon.net> Message-ID: <18865.17161.482338.618750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Keith" == Keith writes: Keith> Alexandre Souza wrote: >>> I've seriously contemplated making my own matching memory >>> expansion module for my VXL/30 A500 cpu accelerator. Fairly >>> complicated because I have to create a DRAM controller. Thinking >>> FGPA w/ a pre-made memory controller core. >> Something I could never understand: Why not using SRAM? Keith> Alexandre, Keith> I haven't ruled out SRAM. As a matter of fact, it was my Keith> first choice. It just seems like SRAM (and memory in general) Keith> is somewhat hard to buy new in the right form factor and in Keith> low quantities. What is "right formfactor"? Keith> I'd prefer something that is wide, 32-bits, or I could use two Keith> 16's. And I need 8mb. And it needs to be fast. The memory Keith> would need to be faster than 60ns. I'll be losing time Keith> through the fpga, so faster memory is definitely a plus. Keith> I've looked at digikey, mouser, newark, and I can't seem to Keith> find memory that fits the bill. 8 Mbit or 8 MByte? Digikey mentions Cypress sync SRAM, 512k by 36, that' 18 Mbit, $30 quantity 1. Or 256k by 36 (9 Mbit), $16 quantity one. Those are TQFP-100 packages, which are easy enough to hand-solder if you're careful and a good magnifying glass, fine tip iron, and thin solder. As I recall, several of the FPGA eval boards (Xilinx Virtex, for one) come with sync SRAM. paul From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Fri Mar 6 09:40:22 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:40:22 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> <087401c99e46$b4055f00$b2b419bb@DeskJara> <4affc5e0903060707v6ef52952n5f41d1184e87ea7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18865.17382.11332.25785@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joachim" == Joachim Thiemann writes: Joachim> But at the expense of convenience, the SDHC parport Joachim> interface would be super simple and thus cheap. In fact, Joachim> the minimal implementation would require: - DB25 parport Joachim> plug - protoboard - 6 resistors - a way to connect a SD card Joachim> (could be soldering pins directly to a SD-microSD converter Joachim> and one can still swap microSD cards) - some wire ... I'm not sure about "super simple". I think SD cards have an MMC compability mode that's pretty simple (I2C, or SPI, one of those). But that's a legacy ultra-slow interface. The "real" SD interface is a 25 Mbit/second (or 50 Mbit/second in high speed mode) packet oriented serial interface. Yes, you can construct those packets in software, but you can't do bitwiggling in software at those kind of clock speeds... paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Mar 6 09:47:25 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:47:25 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <200903060203.VAA13754@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <20090305172501.C96050@shell.lmi.net> <200903060203.VAA13754@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Message-ID: <200903061047.25349.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 05 March 2009, der Mouse wrote: > > The assets of the company may revert to its creditors, > > And if there are no creditors? > > If the company ceases to exist because nobody pays the annual (or > whatever) fees for its maintenance, without creditors, what happens > to its assets? (I'm not trying to argue either side of this > question; I'm just curious about something that appears to me to be > an interesting corner case.) Or, purposefully dissolves it, when it has no creditors.. I too am interested (hmm, asking a legal question on cctalk..) a friend and I recently dissolved the company that we started during college, which didn't really _do_ anythign. I believe that the $1000 his parents gave us to start up still was in the bank account we opened for the business. > > Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't > > easily find? > > Copyright violation - even if that's what this is, a poin ton which I > am deliberately not chipping in - is not theft. Speaking as though > it is (using words like "stealing" for it) does not help anyone, > possibly excepting those (such as IP lawyers) who profit from the > resulting confusion, and certainly does nothing to incline readers > believe your other assertions. Ooh, another fun battle. :) Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Fri Mar 6 10:09:48 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:09:48 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? References: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> <20090305125458.GG17419@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: <18865.19148.88477.413978@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Henk" == Henk Gooijen writes: Henk> I received an answer from WNC after a question about the Henk> shipping costs. I wanted to buy a quart package (7 rolls) and Henk> some 10 4" blue containers. However, the shipping calculator Henk> on their site indicated a shipping cost which was way too much Henk> (shipping to The Netherlands). They would look into it Henk> ... that was 3 weeks ago, and I never heard back. Henk> But there is also good news! Herbert pointed me to ebay item Henk> #230099227038. This guy, Jeff, lists 1" paper rolls for just $4 Henk> per box. And in a box are 7 rolls! That is a bargain, and I Henk> bought 2 boxes. Shipping costst are $101.50, ... I recently needed to ship a 5 pound box from the US to Holland, so I did some checking. UPS and FedEx and their competition all wanted over $100 for that, cheapest rate. So I checked the post office. USPS would do the same for about $30, "priority mail". The big difference is that you don't get package tracking. But it still goes by air as far as I can tell. It seems that the old cheap "surface mail" across the ocean no longer exists. So next time you need a cross-ocean shipment, check the post office, they are likely to be the best answer. paul From keithvz at verizon.net Fri Mar 6 10:24:29 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:24:29 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <18865.17161.482338.618750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> <49B139C3.6060302@verizon.net> <18865.17161.482338.618750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49B14E3D.50609@verizon.net> Paul Koning wrote: > What is "right formfactor"? Fairly easy package for hobbyists to work with -- and the proper tech specs as mentioned. > 8 Mbit or 8 MByte? 8 megabytes. > As I recall, several of the FPGA eval boards (Xilinx Virtex, for one) > come with sync SRAM. I have the Spartan 3E that comes with DDR DRAM. The older 3 board comes with 1 megabyte of SRAM. I haven't seen a reasonably priced FPGA eval board with enough SRAM to do the trick. Thanks Keith From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Fri Mar 6 10:34:27 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:34:27 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> <49B139C3.6060302@verizon.net> <18865.17161.482338.618750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49B14E3D.50609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <18865.20627.188587.780516@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Keith" == Keith writes: Keith> Paul Koning wrote: >> What is "right formfactor"? Keith> Fairly easy package for hobbyists to work with -- and the Keith> proper tech specs as mentioned. TQPF fits that test in my book... >> 8 Mbit or 8 MByte? Keith> 8 megabytes. >> As I recall, several of the FPGA eval boards (Xilinx Virtex, for >> one) come with sync SRAM. Keith> I have the Spartan 3E that comes with DDR DRAM. The older 3 Keith> board comes with 1 megabyte of SRAM. Keith> I haven't seen a reasonably priced FPGA eval board with enough Keith> SRAM to do the trick. I can believe that; chances are that it would come with one chip, and you can't get 8 MB SRAM in one chip. If you're willing to build your own board, you could put 4 of the 512kx36 SSSRAMs I mentioned onto a board. It could probably be a daughterboard, to plug into an FPGA eval board that has an expansion connector. (If that doesn't work, life gets harder because you may not be able to get a decent FPGA in a package other than BGA. I don't know about you, but I draw the line there for hobbyist projects...) I'm still sorting through this for a project I'm working on that needs 2 M x 60 bit memory... that seems to be too much for sane SRAM. Fortunately I can cope with DRAM latencies there. paul From keithvz at verizon.net Fri Mar 6 10:49:35 2009 From: keithvz at verizon.net (Keith) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:49:35 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <18865.20627.188587.780516@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <49B00759.2070506@verizon.net> <084a01c99e45$05893560$b2b419bb@DeskJara> <49B139C3.6060302@verizon.net> <18865.17161.482338.618750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49B14E3D.50609@verizon.net> <18865.20627.188587.780516@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49B1541F.8080501@verizon.net> Paul Koning wrote: > If you're willing to build your own board, you could put 4 of the > 512kx36 SSSRAMs I mentioned onto a board. The problem then becomes cost. $120 just in ram chips. Which to me seems greatly overkill for 8MB of ram and this doesn't include the FPGA board. Not to mention the pure number of leads which scares me. :) BTW, I'm not trying to be difficult, but I've been frustrated with this for awhile and I haven't found an easy solution. Thanks Keith From wdonzelli at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 11:03:47 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:03:47 -0500 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <18865.19148.88477.413978@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> <20090305125458.GG17419@n0jcf.net> <18865.19148.88477.413978@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > So I checked the post office. ?USPS would do the same for about $30, > "priority mail". ?The big difference is that you don't get package > tracking. You can tell if a package at least was received by the foreign post office. > ?But it still goes by air as far as I can tell. ?It seems > that the old cheap "surface mail" across the ocean no longer exists. It went away nearly two years ago. Nearly nobody used it anymore, so USPS dropped it. -- Will From joachim.thiemann at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 11:37:07 2009 From: joachim.thiemann at gmail.com (Joachim Thiemann) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:37:07 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <18865.17382.11332.25785@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> <087401c99e46$b4055f00$b2b419bb@DeskJara> <4affc5e0903060707v6ef52952n5f41d1184e87ea7b@mail.gmail.com> <18865.17382.11332.25785@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4affc5e0903060937q68db09fer97a8f0122beafee1@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:40, Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>> "Joachim" == Joachim Thiemann writes: > > ?Joachim> But at the expense of convenience, the SDHC parport > ?Joachim> interface would be super simple and thus cheap. ?In fact, > ?Joachim> the minimal implementation would require: - DB25 parport > ?Joachim> plug - protoboard - 6 resistors - a way to connect a SD card > ?Joachim> (could be soldering pins directly to a SD-microSD converter > ?Joachim> and one can still swap microSD cards) - some wire ... > > I'm not sure about "super simple". ?I think SD cards have an MMC > compability mode that's pretty simple (I2C, or SPI, one of those). > But that's a legacy ultra-slow interface. That's what I was thinking to use. For me, speed wouldn't matter so much so long as it is comparable to the floppy - and even if data rate would be slower, access and seek times would be near nil. Joe. -- Joachim Thiemann :: http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 6 11:38:38 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 10:38:38 -0700 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: <200903041932.13238.rtellason@verizon.net> <49AEBE9A.16694.C07F471@cclist.sydex.com> <49AF52B1.6000409@netscape.net> <20090305125458.GG17419@n0jcf.net> <18865.19148.88477.413978@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49B15F9E.8030703@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >went away nearly two years ago. Nearly nobody used it anymore, so >> USPS dropped it. No wonder I have been stuck in this crate for over two years ... I am running out twinkies too! Changes label .... Ship to the USA ... Other countries may still ship that way to the USA. From cclist at sydex.com Fri Mar 6 11:42:50 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:42:50 -0800 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <200903060203.VAA13754@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: , <20090305172501.C96050@shell.lmi.net>, <200903060203.VAA13754@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Message-ID: <49B0F01A.9218.1499515C@cclist.sydex.com> On 5 Mar 2009 at 20:53, der Mouse wrote: > Copyright violation - even if that's what this is, a poin ton which I > am deliberately not chipping in - is not theft. Speaking as though it > is (using words like "stealing" for it) does not help anyone, possibly > excepting those (such as IP lawyers) who profit from the resulting > confusion, and certainly does nothing to incline readers believe your > other assertions. "Theft?" Maybe not, but in the US copyright infringement is a criminal, not civil violation. Look up "NET Act of 1997" and, of course, the DMCA. (BTW, it's irrelevant that you profited by the infringement or that the owner suffered economic damage because of your actions). As to whether it's theft can be left to the semanticists. This isn't 1978 anymore. And IANAL. --Chuck From IanK at vulcan.com Fri Mar 6 12:25:55 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:25:55 -0800 Subject: DSD-880 manual? Message-ID: Does anyone have a scan of the DSD-880 manual? I finally picked up one that I intend to put on my MINC-11 (it even comes with the Qbus card and cable). I've searched the "usual" sites to no avail.... Thanks - Ian The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense. - E. Dijkstra Ian S. King, Vintage Systems Engineer Vulcan, Inc. http://www.pdpplanet.org From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Mar 6 12:45:45 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 15:45:45 -0300 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? References: , <49B0A06F.7040507@oldskool.org>, <49B03481.31881.11BC7397@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <098001c99e8c$e5442bf0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> > Wonder when someone will start hacking DTV set-top boxes to do scan > conversion? I noticed that one I bought (with coupon) had an RS-232 > port on the back. Hooked up a terminal set 9600-n-8-1 and darned if > I didn't get a register display and command prompt! > I don't recognize the OS however. It is something proprietary. All boxes with the StI5518 chip shares more or less the same software. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Mar 6 12:58:59 2009 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:58:59 -0800 Subject: Emulex UC07s... Message-ID: <200903061058.59133.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I just sent a confirming email out to all of you who wanted to join the group purchase of Emulex UC07, Qbus/SCSI boards. NOTE: If you did NOT receive a confirming email - and you had previously sent me an email order by Thursday (3/5), please get back to me ASAP so I can include you in the purchase. Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 13:20:05 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:20:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Siliconix DG506AR In-Reply-To: from "David Griffith" at Mar 6, 9 00:03:03 am Message-ID: > > > According to a datasheet[1] I found, a Siliconix DG506AR is an analogue > switch in CMOS. What are some applications for this? I found a pair of Err, switching analogue signals. For example : Multiplexing several signals onto the input of an ADC Sample/Hold circuits Switching op-amp feedback componets (gain select, etc) Resetting op-amp integrators (short out the integration capacitor) And many more. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 13:22:36 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:22:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49B0DECB.AE2C4B9@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Mar 6, 9 00:28:59 am Message-ID: > OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched cards from the 60's. > They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit in the > same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was they > were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular notches and > round holes, IIRC. Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 13:35:57 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:35:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 6, 9 12:03:47 pm Message-ID: > > > So I checked the post office. =A0USPS would do the same for about $30, > > "priority mail". =A0The big difference is that you don't get package > > tracking. > > You can tell if a package at least was received by the foreign post offic= > e. I've had several E-bay purchases sent ot me by USPS priority mail recently. The seller has provided me with a tracking number, and entering that on the USPS site gives the following statuses (in this order) : Accepted for shipmnet Left the US Cleared UK Customs Arrived at the destination post office Delivered Waht didn'w work was the 'email updates' thing. I entered my e-mail address and heard nothing until after the parcel had arrived, when I got a list of tiems and dates for the above statuses. Now, I don't nned to know how the parcel got to me, I need to know what's gone wrong if it doesn't arrive... -tony From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Mar 6 13:52:12 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:52:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: hacking DTV boxen was Re: is it possible to rebuild old C64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <098001c99e8c$e5442bf0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> from Alexandre Souza at "Mar 6, 9 03:45:45 pm" Message-ID: <200903061952.n26JqCB3011594@floodgap.com> > > Wonder when someone will start hacking DTV set-top boxes to do scan > > conversion? I noticed that one I bought (with coupon) had an RS-232 > > port on the back. Hooked up a terminal set 9600-n-8-1 and darned if > > I didn't get a register display and command prompt! > > I don't recognize the OS however. > > It is something proprietary. All boxes with the StI5518 chip shares more > or less the same software. What DTV box was that? -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Man who live in glass house dress in basement. ----------------------------- From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Mar 6 14:34:38 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:34:38 +0000 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B188DE.6060100@gjcp.net> Dan Gahlinger wrote: > I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, or alternatively I bet a "generic" hardware device could be made... > There probably *are* people who own the "copyright", but to be honest I doubt you could persuade them to care. Furthermore, things like memory expansions and the like are too generic to even attempt to copyright - there's no way on earth you could assert any rights over a 74LS138 used as an address decoder... Gordon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 15:02:57 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:02:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49B188DE.6060100@gjcp.net> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Mar 6, 9 08:34:38 pm Message-ID: > There probably *are* people who own the "copyright", but to be honest I > doubt you could persuade them to care. Furthermore, things like memory > expansions and the like are too generic to even attempt to copyright - > there's no way on earth you could assert any rights over a 74LS138 used > as an address decoder... This reminds me of a 3rd party DIO memory oard in one of my HP9000/200 machines. It's something like 'Revision J'. After figuiring out the circuitry, I discovered it's electronically the same as the HP RAM board, but with some gates re-assigned (there might be a could of '00s on the board, giving 8 NAND gates, exactlu whcih gate is used for which function differs between the HP and 3rd party board). I heard a rumour that the reason there were so many revisions is that they modified things until either (a) the HP lawyers left them alone or (b) they felt HP would leave them alone (I've heard both versions). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 15:06:33 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:06:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Edge punched cards Message-ID: Thining of edge-punched cards... The original membership cards for the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society had 8-level paper-tape punchings along the bottom edge giving (IIRC) 'CUCPS' (im ASCII),. the member's computer userid (ditto) and the membership number (3 bytes, binary). I don;t think anyone ever tried to machine-read them though. -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 6 15:52:46 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:52:46 -0700 Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B19B2E.1030606@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Waht didn'w work was the 'email updates' thing. I entered my e-mail > address and heard nothing until after the parcel had arrived, when I got > a list of tiems and dates for the above statuses. Now, I don't nned to > know how the parcel got to me, I need to know what's gone wrong if it > doesn't arrive... Or in my case ... the mail notice gets updated *after* the mailman arives at your door. > -tony > From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri Mar 6 17:13:54 2009 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H Dickman) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 18:13:54 -0500 Subject: C.mmp Message-ID: <49B1AE32.9020503@nktelco.net> I don't know anything about the PDP-11 MIMD machine at CMU other than seeing references to it while researching the PDP-11 in general. I saw a picture on wikipedia and wondered if anybody knew the eventual disposition of this machine. It seems like a recent picture. Hopefully it is a destined for preservation. The cage makes me think of a prisoner awaiting his last walk down the "green mile".... -chuck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.mmp From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Mar 6 18:17:30 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:17:30 -0800 Subject: C.mmp Message-ID: <49B1BD1A.50405@bitsavers.org> > wondered if anybody knew the eventual > disposition of this machine. As of a year ago, it and cm* were in storage at CMU. CHM was approached about taking them, but we heard nothing more about it since then. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 6 19:08:52 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 17:08:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Tony Duell wrote: > > OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched cards from the 60's. > > They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit in the > > same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was they > > were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular notches and > > round holes, IIRC. > > Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one > hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole > at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind? At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Mar 6 19:18:53 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 22:18:53 -0300 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? References: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <0b0701c99ec3$4ce0ebf0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> >> > OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched cards from the 60's. >> > They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit >> > in the >> > same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was >> > they >> > were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular >> > notches and >> > round holes, IIRC. >> Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one >> hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole >> at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind? > At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. I barely remember that, but I remember it was VERY VERY VERY interesting at that time. I remember I played sometime with that for HOURS :oD From cclist at sydex.com Fri Mar 6 19:16:39 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:16:39 -0800 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> References: , <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B15A77.9019.1638C67A@cclist.sydex.com> On 6 Mar 2009 at 17:08, Fred Cisin wrote: > Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one > > hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole > > at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind? > > At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. I believe the NCR CRAM used a similar selection system. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Fri Mar 6 19:55:18 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:55:18 -0800 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <0b0701c99ec3$4ce0ebf0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> References: , <0b0701c99ec3$4ce0ebf0$b2b419bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49B16386.6691.165C3BAF@cclist.sydex.com> On 6 Mar 2009 at 22:18, Alexandre Souza wrote: >> Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one > >> hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole > >> at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind? > > At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. > > I barely remember that, but I remember it was VERY VERY VERY interesting > at that time. > > I remember I played sometime with that for HOURS :oD I recall using a deck like that to identify plant species. The "rods" were nothing more or less than knitting needles. Cheers, Chuck From wdonzelli at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 20:11:53 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:11:53 -0500 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. Also the Royal McBee Keysort system. Different makers called it E-Z Sort and Flexisort. It is actually a trinary system - hole, no hole, or slot. Additionally, the edges could be multiple levels deep (generally two), so you could do multiple level sorts. -- Will From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Mar 6 21:57:05 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:57:05 -0800 Subject: 6800/6820 Address decoding help... Message-ID: <49B1F091.2000908@mail.msu.edu> So I've given myself yet another project to fill my ever-lessening free time with: to write a Tek 4051 emulator. I have the ROMs (thanks again, Axel) and I've coded up a nice quick 'n dirty 6800 emulation. Now I'm working on figuring out how the CPU talks to the hardware... I have at my disposal the service manuals and a disassembly of the aforementioned ROMs. I also have a physical Tek 4051, but I'm loathe to start poking the PIAs without knowing what I'm doing, given that the screen's electron beam is directly controlled by the software, it's more than possible to burn a nice hole in the phosphor if I screw up :). The CPU talks to a set of 6820 PIAs, and from there it's fairly easy to figure out what bits hook up to what devices, given the schematics (and only slightly harder to work out how they need to be manipulated, by reverse-engineering the disassembly) but I'm having a heck of a time working out what addresses the PIAs' inputs & outputs are mapped to in the CPU's address space. The Service Manual gives a tantalizingly small amount of information about this in Vol. 1 -- it actually has a table of addresses but is very vague -- for example, I now know that addresses $878C-$878F are "Y-AXIS DA/TAPE" but I don't know which ones are for which, nor do I know whether they're input/output/both, etc... looking at where these addresses show up in the disassembly makes a few things clearer, but is not enough. So it seems obvious that the actual schematics would come to my rescue here... but I'm unable to decipher them to the point where I can determine how the PIAs are actually addressed by the CPU. I chalk this up to my lack of experience in digital logic & schematic reading. I guess what I'm asking: can someone out there help me work this out (or give me some pointers on how to attack this?). I want to learn how to do this and I need a bit of assistance... The 4051 schematics are on bitsavers (yay) at: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tektronix/405x/070-2286-00_4051_Service_Vol2_May77.pdf For now, I want to concentrate on working out the display controls... the related schematic pages for these are: 4_02-03 (cpu), 4_02-10 (x d/a) and 4_02-11 (y d/a). Thanks for any advice... Josh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 02:53:56 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 08:53:56 +0000 Subject: 6800/6820 Address decoding help... In-Reply-To: <49B1F091.2000908@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: derschjo at mail.msu.edu wrote: > So I've given myself yet another project to fill my ever-lessening free > time with: to write a Tek 4051 emulator. I have the ROMs (thanks again, > Axel) and I've coded up a nice quick 'n dirty 6800 emulation. Now I'm > working on figuring out how the CPU talks to the hardware... I have at > my disposal the service manuals and a disassembly of the aforementioned > ROMs. I also have a physical Tek 4051, but I'm loathe to start poking > the PIAs without knowing what I'm doing, given that the screen's > electron beam is directly controlled by the software, it's more than > possible to burn a nice hole in the phosphor if I screw up :). > > The CPU talks to a set of 6820 PIAs, and from there it's fairly easy to > figure out what bits hook up to what devices, given the schematics (and > only slightly harder to work out how they need to be manipulated, by > reverse-engineering the disassembly) but I'm having a heck of a time > working out what addresses the PIAs' inputs & outputs are mapped to in > the CPU's address space. It sounds like what you need is a 6820 PIA data sheet (a 6821 one would do as well). This shouldn't be hard to find. >From what I remember, the PIA occupies 4 bytes of the memory map, selected by a pair of address inputs on the PIA chip called RS0 and RS1 (Register Select). These are normally linked to CPU address lines A0 and A1 (and I think that's the case in the 4051) so each PIA takes up 4 contiguous bytes. Each PIA has 2 ports (Port A and Port B), each consisting of 8 data lines (which can be inputs or outputs) and 2 control lines (CA1, CA2, CB1, CB2). The data sheet will show you how you read/write the port lines, select their direction (in or out), control/read the control lines, etc. There seem to be some useful tables at the start of the second volume of the service manual saying what each of the port lines is linked to. Given that, and the schematics it should be very easy to work out what address does what. I've just started looking at the scheamtics and I can't see anything difficult here. -tony From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Sat Mar 7 03:15:30 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 01:15:30 -0800 Subject: 6800/6820 Address decoding help... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B23B32.6020505@mail.msu.edu> ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > > It sounds like what you need is a 6820 PIA data sheet (a 6821 one would do > as well). This shouldn't be hard to find. > These are actually in Vol. 2 of the service manual, at the back :). > >From what I remember, the PIA occupies 4 bytes of the memory map, selected by > a pair of address inputs on the PIA chip called RS0 and RS1 (Register Select). > These are normally linked to CPU address lines A0 and A1 (and I think that's > the case in the 4051) so each PIA takes up 4 contiguous bytes. > > Each PIA has 2 ports (Port A and Port B), each consisting of 8 data lines > (which can be inputs or outputs) and 2 control lines (CA1, CA2, CB1, CB2). The > data sheet will show you how you read/write the port lines, select their > direction (in or out), control/read the control lines, etc. > > There seem to be some useful tables at the start of the second volume of the > service manual saying what each of the port lines is linked to. Given that, > I didn't even see that section of the service manual... just jumped straight to the schematics. More fool me... this is quite helpful. > and the schematics it should be very easy to work out what address does what. > I've just started looking at the scheamtics and I can't see anything difficult > here. > I think I've got most of it worked out now... just not sure how to work out where the control lines (CA1/2, CB1/2) fit into this whole thing. Thanks... Josh > -tony > > > > From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Sat Mar 7 04:48:56 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 10:48:56 +0000 Subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> Message-ID: <49B25118.7020208@gjcp.net> s shumaker wrote: > The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: A > law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a sample > of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media for a law > enforcement forensics class that he teaches. That sounds interesting. Can you get him to tell us a bit more about that? Gordon From chrise at pobox.com Fri Mar 6 06:40:52 2009 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 06:40:52 -0600 Subject: S-100 power supply voltage ranges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090306124052.GD12426@n0jcf.net> On Thursday (03/05/2009 at 09:43PM -0500), Andrew Lynch wrote: > > 8V SMPSUs aren't exactly common these days and you'd need at least one of > those and another 18/-18V SMPSU for a S-100 backplane to work properly. ah-- but 7.5v ones are and they are almost all adjustable +/- 10%. You can set them to 8v spot on if you want. That is what Grant Stockley does in his Altair reproductions (or, he may just run them at 7.5v). http://www.altairkit.com A couple examples, http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16012+PS http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16018+PS Chris From mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG Fri Mar 6 09:56:44 2009 From: mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG (der Mouse) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:56:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <200903061047.25349.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <20090305172501.C96050@shell.lmi.net> <200903060203.VAA13754@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <200903061047.25349.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200903061601.LAA22687@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> >>> Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't >>> easily find? >> Copyright violation - even if that's what this is, a poin ton which >> I am deliberately not chipping in - is not theft. [...] > Ooh, another fun battle. :) Heh. Actually, in an attempt to forestall a reaction I've had when making that point in other places: I didn't say there was nothing wrong with it; I said it is not theft, and that using language based on equating the two merely further confuses an already confused area. (The reaction I'm trying to forestall is the "oh, so you think there's nothing wrong with [...sketch of copyright violation, usually further conflating it with theft...], hmm?" one.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 17:27:09 2009 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 18:27:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903052041h6474b5d3mca75b7a9e50369be@mail.gmail.com> References: <49AFF7AB.2060905@verizon.net> <6dbe3c380903050816m94a9184r93385c6bfe8e5d2c@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903050853g36629506w21be6565645d2df0@mail.gmail.com> <4affc5e0903051513k5478fab9vb92b65133d812d34@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903052041h6474b5d3mca75b7a9e50369be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Brian Lanning wrote: > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Joachim Thiemann > wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 17:03, Gene Buckle wrote: >> Given this, can one hook a SD/SDHC card to the Amiga parallel port, >> and then write a "sdhc.device" that presents a block device that can >> be put into the Mountlist and be accessed by dos.library or one of the >> ms-dos capable libraries (messydos?) and thus present a non-bootable >> mass storage device for the amiga? ?So, you boot with a custom >> workbench disk, that loads the driver, mounts the SDHC card and then >> startup-sequence hands control over >> to a script on the SDHC card. ?ISTR this was commonly done for romless >> drive addons on the 500 - and I had such a setup for my 1000, where my >> bootup workbech disk loaded the janus drivers and then handed control >> over to a MFM hard disk in the Sidecar. > > That's starting to sound like a backwards version of this: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Amiga-500-1000-2000-3000-Floppy-Simulator-w-MPDOS-Pro_W0QQitemZ320345362723QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item320345362723&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 Yes, except that package never worked for me. The author and I went back and forth for months, but disk emulation simply wouldn't work. I hung on to the package and cabling, though, since it will also emulate a disk for Atari 800 series machines. That mode uses bit-banging to talk to the game ports. > I've also seen a gadget for the c64 (or was it an apple 2e?) that > connects the serial port to a PC. You run some software on the PC > which then looks like a hard drive to the old computer. Like a file > server over a serial connection. There are a family of adapters that let your PC talk to a Commodore 1541 drive, and with the right software the C64 can use the PC as a disk. Similar thing exists for Atari, BTW. Different approach from the floppy simulator. Instead of bit-banging, it sits on the serial bus with the disk drives. -- From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Fri Mar 6 17:26:15 2009 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:26:15 -0000 Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: <49AB5442.4C61D8BA@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Mar 1, 9 07:36:33 pm Message-ID: <007201c99eb2$f34718e0$d9d54aa0$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 02 March 2009 18:51 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II > > > That's not necessarily a flaw: 120/240 supplies often do the voltage > selection > > by switching the circuit between bridge rectifier for 240V and > voltage doubler > > for 120V. In the bridge config two caps end up in series, so > 250V+250V=500V. > > For the mains smoothing capacitors (large electrolytics after the > rectifier stage), sure. But for the mains filter capacitors > (non-polarised, connected acrsso the mains or between one side of the > mains and ground, before the bridge rectifer), I doubt it. > > -tony In sending Roy the information on the markings I omitted what looks like a "~" after the 250V marking (the casing fragment is damaged in that area), so the caps are probably rated for 250V AC. I can also see an X2 marking on one of the caps (the other one is too damaged to see). As the damage is indeed to two caps on the mains filter, I have purchased replacements which I will be fitting this weekend. The rest of the PSU *appears* to be in good condition but I do not have anything to test ESR with and I do not have a variac or the knowledge of how to use one, so I am unsure whether I should attempt to connect the PSU to the mains again or whether I should attempt to switch it on. If I do feel brave I will only connect a load that I do not care too much about. I will worry about the harness later, but know that I need to fix this too eventually. Regards Rob From shumaker at att.net Sat Mar 7 08:18:52 2009 From: shumaker at att.net (s shumaker) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 09:18:52 -0500 Subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49B25118.7020208@gjcp.net> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> <49B25118.7020208@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <49B2824C.4060605@att.net> I'll ask him. He was unaware of this list and asked me for info re subscribing. Definitely wouldn't have managed that yet though so I'll ask. steve Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > s shumaker wrote: >> The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: >> A law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a >> sample of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media >> for a law enforcement forensics class that he teaches. > > That sounds interesting. Can you get him to tell us a bit more about > that? > > Gordon > From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sat Mar 7 09:37:44 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 12:37:44 -0300 Subject: hacking DTV boxen was Re: is it possible to rebuild old C64hardware enhancements? References: <200903061952.n26JqCB3011594@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <0c2301c99f3b$4cfdd440$b2b419bb@DeskJara> >> It is something proprietary. All boxes with the StI5518 chip shares >> more >> or less the same software. > What DTV box was that? An extense list...google it! From lynchaj at yahoo.com Sat Mar 7 09:43:54 2009 From: lynchaj at yahoo.com (Andrew Lynch) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:43:54 -0500 Subject: S-100 backplane board spacing Message-ID: <69F036A9679C45F5A0CCDE8E1D10D5A0@andrewdesktop> S-100 backplane board spacing Hi, here is a rough draft of the PCB layout for a low cost S-100 prototyping PCB I am considering.? The primary goal is to make this PCB affordable yet still useful to S-100 hobbyists.? It is not intended to be a full blown S-100 system or a permanent backplane but rather a bench tool.? Keeping the costs low means a small number of connectors and?avoiding features such as termination, etc.???Having a small number of connectors minimizes the bus length and reduces the need for termination.? A benefit of this backplane is a hobbyist could use it to develop new boards and/or repair older ones without risking damage to a costly or rare vintage S-100 chassis. ? The builder would have to supply the necessary S-100 voltages from their own power supply.? The power supply interface is just PCB pads that could have a connector or just direct wired to the supply.? Possible power supply solutions would be off the shelf SMPSUs to supply +15VDC, -15VDC, and 9VDC to the rails or alternatively surplus laptop adapters could be modified to supply the necessary power.? A small number of boards reduces the need for large power supply capacity. ? The 13x2 dual row header connectors are optional for use as a stand alone S-100 backplane.? However, they are necessary for my own project which will use?this PCB.? PCB construction will be the usual double thickness PCB for rigidity and double weight traces for current capacity. ? http://n8vem-sbc.pbwiki.com/f/Printing%20S100-Backplane-full-brd.pdf ? If you would be interested in a PCB, please contact me off list.? My intent is to keep this consistent with the other N8VEM PCBs so the target price is $20 each for the PCB only plus shipping.? There is no estimate for arrival for the PCB as of now.? I am only trying to gauge what, if any, interest there might be in the S-100 hobbyist community. ? Constructive comments, suggestions, and questions appreciated.? Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch From lynchaj at yahoo.com Sat Mar 7 09:43:54 2009 From: lynchaj at yahoo.com (Andrew Lynch) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:43:54 -0500 Subject: N8VEM topics, S-100 and Disk IO Message-ID: <9637EBC251544977A217A8245F0840F9@andrewdesktop> Hi! There are a couple of projects I am working in the N8VEM Z80 CP/M home brew computer project that may be of interest to the CCTALK community. First, I am working on an ECB to S-100 bridge device am designing a small low cost S-100 motherboard as part of the project. It has 4 slots and is intended for hobbyist use testing, prototyping, debugging on a bench. There is no case, power supply, or other advanced features. It is separate from the ECB to S-100 bridge board so it can be used by itself for related projects. I tried to send a message to CCTALK previously with a URL but it never gets posted to the list. So if you are interested in seeing the design just go to the N8VEM wiki page and the PDF file is in the "ECB to S-100 Bus Bridge" folder on the lower right hand side. The design is not yet final but main goal is low cost functionality so I will not be adding active/passive termination, more connectors, power supplies, or other things which will increase PCB area unless there is a compelling reason. Second, the N8VEM Disk IO board is finally available. It has an IDE interface and FDC based on the i8272. Initial testing seems pretty good although testing has uncovered some issues. There are several devices which are known to work with the IDE ranging from older hard drives to CF units. It is all documented on the wiki and in the mailing list. Several N8VEM builders are working with the Disk IO board and development is underway. If you are interested in either of the above, please join us on the N8VEM project. All the PCBs are available and all the information for hardware and software is freely and publicly available. In particular, I would especially ask those who have S-100 backplane and/or IDE and FDC design experience for help. Even if you don't build your own system we certainly could use some expert help in making this a better project. If you have any *constructive* comments, suggestions, questions, or would just like to discuss the subject you can reply here, on the N8VEM mailing list, or contact me by email. Thank and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Mar 7 09:50:50 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 07:50:50 -0800 Subject: usb floppy simulator Message-ID: <49B297DA.6020604@bitsavers.org> hadn't seen this before http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#projetssimilaires From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 7 11:33:58 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 10:33:58 -0700 Subject: S-100 backplane board spacing In-Reply-To: <69F036A9679C45F5A0CCDE8E1D10D5A0@andrewdesktop> References: <69F036A9679C45F5A0CCDE8E1D10D5A0@andrewdesktop> Message-ID: <49B2B006.40301@jetnet.ab.ca> Andrew Lynch wrote: > > Constructive comments, suggestions, and questions appreciated. Thanks and > have a nice day! Having a standard source for a power supply, is needed. That is what fried my last S100 bus system I had. I think every thing needs to be on the motherboard, with linear regulation. 3 slots sound ample. > Andrew Lynch > > > From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 7 12:43:07 2009 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:43:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <200902282028.n1SKSQZi024236@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <268224.23773.qm@web38102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 0xf7, "Hacker" --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Cameron Kaiser wrote: From: Cameron Kaiser Subject: Re: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 2:28 PM > > I was just browsing around on UP and found > > http://up.update.uu.se/DSK%3AHUMOR1%3BUNIX%20TEST > > I took the test and got 0x72, "operator", not bad for being born after > > half the things mentioned were retired :) > > 0xF1 "hacker" 0x82, "nerd" (not too bad considering my age as well) -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who read binary, and those who don't. -- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 13:08:10 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:08:10 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49B19B2E.1030606@jetnet.ab.ca> from "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" at Mar 6, 9 02:52:46 pm Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Waht didn'w work was the 'email updates' thing. I entered my e-mail > > address and heard nothing until after the parcel had arrived, when I got > > a list of tiems and dates for the above statuses. Now, I don't nned to > > know how the parcel got to me, I need to know what's gone wrong if it > > doesn't arrive... > > Or in my case ... the mail notice gets updated *after* the mailman > arives at your door. Precisely. When I checked my mail on the evening of the day that the parcel had been delivered, I found a message from USPS giving the details of the deliverey including 'Delivered at $time on $date'. You know, I actually knew that :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 13:11:43 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:11:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <007201c99eb2$f34718e0$d9d54aa0$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> from "Robert Jarratt" at Mar 6, 9 11:26:15 pm Message-ID: > In sending Roy the information on the markings I omitted what looks like a > "~" after the 250V marking (the casing fragment is damaged in that area), so Almost certainly the mains filter capacitors then... > the caps are probably rated for 250V AC. I can also see an X2 marking on one > of the caps (the other one is too damaged to see). As the damage is indeed > to two caps on the mains filter, I have purchased replacements which I will > be fitting this weekend. OK. If you replace like with like (same 'class', rated for 250V mains [1] and about the same capacitance value) you should have no problems. [1] Most filter capacitors sold in the UK are good for thsi, for ovious reasons. > > The rest of the PSU *appears* to be in good condition but I do not have > anything to test ESR with and I do not have a variac or the knowledge of how > to use one, so I am unsure whether I should attempt to connect the PSU to > the mains again or whether I should attempt to switch it on. If I do feel > brave I will only connect a load that I do not care too much about. Personally, I would connect it to the mains with dummy load (car bulbs or simuilar). I think it'll be OK. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 13:20:41 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:20:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 6800/6820 Address decoding help... In-Reply-To: <49B23B32.6020505@mail.msu.edu> from "Josh Dersch" at Mar 7, 9 01:15:30 am Message-ID: > > > > ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > > It sounds like what you need is a 6820 PIA data sheet (a 6821 one would do > > as well). This shouldn't be hard to find. > > > These are actually in Vol. 2 of the service manual, at the back :). Right... [...] > > There seem to be some useful tables at the start of the second volume of the > > service manual saying what each of the port lines is linked to. Given that, > > > I didn't even see that section of the service > manual... just jumped straight to the schematics. More fool me... this > is quite helpful. I think the expression is 'Read The FIne Manual' (and this is a fine manual from what I've seen). If you want to work out the addressing from first principles, you need to look at the CSn (Chip Select) inputs to the PIAs. IIRC there are 3 of these on a 6820, CS0 and CS1 have to be high (logic 1) and CS2/ has to be low (logic 0) to select the PIA. Any other combination oprevents the CPU from accessing that PIA. >From what I rememebr of the scheamtics, CS0 and CS1 are connected to buffered address lines, CS2/ comes from an active-low output of an addresss decoder circuit. I think (based on the CS0 and CS1 wiring) that the decoding is not 'complete'. Each PIA may appear at several addresses, and there are some addresses that would actually select 2 PIAs simultaneously. A very bad idea if you're reading from the PIA (both of the selected PIAs would try to drive the data bus at the same time), but proably OK for writing. I have no idea if Tektronix ever did this, but it would appear you could write the same value to equivalent registers in 2 PIAs at the same time. Something to think about if your simulator appears to be writing to PIAs and non-standard addresses. > I think I've got most of it worked out now... just not sure how to work > out where the control lines (CA1/2, CB1/2) fit into this whole thing. They're controlled via each port's control register. IIRC the control inputs generate interrupts, I've not looked to see how the interrupt outputs of the PIAs are wired in the 4051. -tony From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Sat Mar 7 06:08:53 2009 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 12:08:53 -0000 Subject: 12 hours for posts to appear Message-ID: <000301c99f1d$7cd08c80$7671a580$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> I am not a frequent poster to this list, but I have noticed that any post I make seems to take 12 hours to appear. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal? I am posting this at 12:08 GMT. Regards Rob From dj.taylor4 at verizon.net Sat Mar 7 09:45:33 2009 From: dj.taylor4 at verizon.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 10:45:33 -0500 Subject: DSD-880 manual? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090307104434.025b8018@verizon.net> At 01:25 PM 3/6/2009, you wrote: >Does anyone have a scan of the DSD-880 manual? I finally picked up >one that I intend to put on my MINC-11 (it even comes with the Qbus >card and cable). I've searched the "usual" sites to no avail.... Thanks - Ian > >The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, >be regarded as a criminal offense. - E. Dijkstra >Ian S. King, Vintage Systems Engineer >Vulcan, Inc. >http://www.pdpplanet.org I believe I have a copy of the manual itself. If you can't get a scan I'll go dig it up. Doug From dm561 at torfree.net Sat Mar 7 14:48:30 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 15:48:30 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? Message-ID: <01C99F3C.306A5960@host-208-72-122-25.dyn.295.ca> ---------------Original Message: Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:56:44 -0500 (EST) From: der Mouse Subject: Re: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? >>> Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't >>> easily find? >> Copyright violation - even if that's what this is, a poin ton which >> I am deliberately not chipping in - is not theft. [...] > Ooh, another fun battle. :) Heh. Actually, in an attempt to forestall a reaction I've had when making that point in other places: I didn't say there was nothing wrong with it; I said it is not theft, and that using language based on equating the two merely further confuses an already confused area. (The reaction I'm trying to forestall is the "oh, so you think there's nothing wrong with [...sketch of copyright violation, usually further conflating it with theft...], hmm?" one.) Mouse --------------Reply: It's not just theft; apparently copying a piece of software is equivalent to hijacking a tanker off the coast of Somalia, holding it and the crew for millions in ransom, perhaps killing a few along the way, etc., or the older images of slashing cutlasses, raping and pillaging, etc. No doubt the same punishment will soon apply... m **** From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Mar 7 15:41:53 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 21:41:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 12 hours for posts to appear In-Reply-To: <000301c99f1d$7cd08c80$7671a580$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <939842.91566.qm@web23402.mail.ird.yahoo.com> According to Yahoo's timestamp I recieved this at "7 March, 2009 12:08 PM". I am replying at 9:40pm GMT 7 March. I haven't had any problem with my posts (though admittedly I don't post that often). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Sat, 7/3/09, Robert Jarratt wrote: From: Robert Jarratt Subject: 12 hours for posts to appear To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, 7 March, 2009, 12:08 PM I am not a frequent poster to this list, but I have noticed that any post I make seems to take 12 hours to appear. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal? I am posting this at 12:08 GMT. Regards Rob From jdjdmfamily at yahoo.com Sat Mar 7 15:12:33 2009 From: jdjdmfamily at yahoo.com (Richard) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:12:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) Message-ID: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Okay, I have been watching this auction for quite sometime, I am thinking about bidding.? What is it worth??? I don't want to over bid, but I've never seen an in box Lisa in good shape like that, and one with a working widget (come to think of it, I've never seen one with a working internal drive), and its said to have been owned by Apple. The item number is: 270351871785 Whats it worth bidding?? I would love to bid, and its stayed so cheap, I just want to meet the reserve, but if other bid (and there is also said to be 326 watchers), I don't want to get cought up in the moment and bid my life away, I just want to know whats its worth before I bid, you guys seem like experts in this area. Thank you, Rich From ray at arachelian.com Sat Mar 7 17:01:04 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:01:04 -0500 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49B2FCB0.3050507@arachelian.com> Richard wrote: > Okay, I have been watching this auction for quite sometime, I am thinking about bidding. What is it worth? I don't want to over bid, but I've never seen an in box Lisa in good shape like that, and one with a working widget (come to think of it, I've never seen one with a working internal drive), and its said to have been owned by Apple. > > The item number is: > 270351871785 > > Whats it worth bidding? I would love to bid, and its stayed so cheap, I just want to meet the reserve, but if other bid (and there is also said to be 326 watchers), I don't want to get cought up in the moment and bid my life away, I just want to know whats its worth before I bid, you guys seem like experts in this area. > Hard to say. But, it's got a lot of the standard software, because it's unopened, and even has some software that's not commonly "out there" (Desktop Calendar) it will be worth more. It bothers me that the guy selling it doesn't list out all the software. Yeah, it's got Lisa 7/7, most Lisa auctions don't even include software, let alone unopened, but what else? There's two brown Apple boxes, I'd guess one of them is The Lisa 2 Owner's Guide. What's the other one? An older copy of 7/7 or something else? (the white ones are 3.0 or 3.1) It does bother me that he doesn't specifically say which items are opened and which aren't. That's worth knowing. It's got the 10M Widget drive, thus it's worth more, it's got the original mouse (as opposed to a Mac Plus mouse), normal yellowing, but it has something most ebay Lisa's don't have - the packaging box. I'd guess it'll go over $1K, maybe even $2K easily - especially seeing a bit of interest from overseas buyers. It's not a Lisa 1, so it's not exactly "super rare", but it does have a few bits of stuff to drive the price up pretty high. It doesn't have the dual parallel card, which, IMHO, I'd want. Those are useful for attaching external Profile HD's incase the internal Widget kicks the bucket. Being owned by apple, I wouldn't worry too much about in terms of adding value. Since it's a 2/10, it means it's got the 2/10 I/O board with a single IWM chip, and best of all, no NiCad batteries to leak. It might have issues due to the age, such as failing capacitors (not yet obviously) and the floppy drives can go bad (usually the grease solidifies.) What to bid? Depends, what can you afford and how badly do you want it. If you just want a Lisa for the lowest cost, consider another auction. As usual, it's worth what the highest bidder's willing to pay for it. I'd personally not bother with this one, it's got a lot of "rare" items which will drive the price up. But then again, that's because I would want a lower price, and already have two Lisa's, so I wouldn't be in the market for another. Personally, having the box it came with isn't that important, or unopened software, but apparently there are a lot of people for whom that is a big important deal, and they're apparently willing to pay for shipping across the ocean. :-) So you can expect this one to go quite high. Maybe not $4K, but at least $1K-$2K. From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Mar 7 17:44:40 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 17:44:40 -0600 Subject: Yet more books, free for cost of shipping from Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <49AC3E0A.9010402@pacbell.net> References: <49AB9383.5090703@pacbell.net> <49AC3E0A.9010402@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <49B306E8.3040404@pacbell.net> I had seven people take books from my previous list. I dug out another case of books. It crossed my mind to put some of them on ebay, but I'd rather just be done and have them gone. This time I'm going to list them and not look at any responses for 24 hours. That will be more fair to the people who happen to be away from their computer when I send this out. Then I'll figure out how to divide the requests. I'll take into account how few boxes I need to ship (that is, those of you whom I've already promised boxes, you have a head start on someone who just wants a single book from this list, since I'm shipping a box to you anyway. I haven't shipped anything yet because I knew I was going to list these other books when I found time to list them). There are some gems in there. ====================================================================== New books I haven't listed before ====================================================================== The Small-C Handbook James Hendrix 256 pages Interfacing to S-100/IEEE 696 microcomputers Libes & Garetz, 320 pages BASIC Computer Games (1973/1974, Digital) Ahl, 250 pages BASIC Computer Games (Microcomputer Edition) Ahl, 184 pages The Instructor 50 Desktop Computer User's Guide Signetics, 1978, 300 pages? Introduction to the Instructor 50 Desktop Computer Signetics, 1978, 120 pages? What to do after you hit RETURN People's Computer Company, (c) 79, a bit tattered on the edges Byte May 78 Interface Age April 83 Microsystems, Jan/Feb 82 Microsystems, Mar/Apr 82 The Best of Byte, Volume I Ahl and Helmers, 376 pages The Best of Creative Computing, Vol 2 Ahl, 325 pages Electronic Techniques Shop Practices and Contruction, 2nd Edition (hardback) Vallanucci, Avtgis, Megow, (c) 1981 and 1974, 606 pages Book on how to make PC boards, cases, metalwork, etc Transistor Logic Circuits A significant, unified accoutn of logical mathematics and transistor logic circuits... Richard B. Hurley, (c) 1961, 362 pages (hardback) Starting Forth, 2nd Edition Leo Brodie, 350 pages, some water damage ROS (Resident Operating System) Cromemco, 78 Signetics MOS Microprocessor Data Manual 1983 IBM Introduction to IBM Data Processing Systems Student Text Fourth Edition 1970, reprint 1972 100 pages uC/OS The Real-Time Kernel Fifth Printe Revised for v.1.10 Jean J. Labrosse (c) 1992, 265 pages (floppy disk is missing) RTL Cookbook First Edition, Fourth Printing, 1969 240 pages TRS-80 Data File Programming Model I/III Finkel & Brown (a Radio Shack publication) 306 pages RCA CMOS Integrated Circuits Databook (c) 1983, 800 pages a bit beat up, but quite usable SGS COS/MOS B-Series Devices Databook, 3rd Edition (1982) [this is a CMOS 4000-series compatible family) 700 pages Signetics digital/linear/mos Integrated Circuits Databook (1972) 1000 pages? plus the supplement (1973) 100 pages? Signetics Bipolar & MOS Memory Data Manual, 1980 278 pages National Semiconductor Digital Integrated Circuits Databook, Jan 1974 400 pages? Windows NT Device Driver Development Peter G. Viscarola, W. Anthony Mason 684 pages ====================================================================== Books I listed before but which nobody claimed ====================================================================== Windows 95 API How-To The Definitive Windwos API Problem-Solver Matthew Telles, Andrew Cook 750 pages + CD Windows Programming Annotated Archives Herb Shildt 520 pages + CD Windows 95 A Developer's Guide Jeffrey Richter Jonathan Locke 616 pages + CD Windows 95 A Programmer's Case Book Seven S. Chen 754 pages + CD Advanced Windows (Third Edition) Jeffrey Richter 1050 pages + CD Multithreading Applications in Win32 The Complete Guide to Threads Jim Beveridge Robert Wiener 368 pages + CD Windows 95 WIN32 Programming API Bible Book 1 Richard Simon 1378 pages + CD Programming Windows 95 The Definitive Developer's Guide to the Windows 95 API Charles Petzold, Paul Yao 1100 pages + CD Linux System Administration Vicki Stanfield, Roderick W. Smith 657 pages, (c) 2001 From thrashbarg at kaput.homeunix.org Sat Mar 7 18:01:43 2009 From: thrashbarg at kaput.homeunix.org (Alexis) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 10:31:43 +1030 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903081031.43281.thrashbarg@kaput.homeunix.org> On Sunday 08 March 2009 07:42:33 Richard wrote: > The item number is: > 270351871785 >From the auction: Q: Hi, will this run OS X? Does it have wireless? I believe the latest internet expression is *facepalm* -- Alexis From javickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Mar 7 18:11:43 2009 From: javickers at solutionengineers.com (Ade Vickers) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 01:11:43 +0100 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <200903081031.43281.thrashbarg@kaput.homeunix.org> References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200903081031.43281.thrashbarg@kaput.homeunix.org> Message-ID: <2ADFFE5E10574D39BB28AFE20C5748D7@orac> Alexis wrote: > >From the auction: > Q: Hi, will this run OS X? Does it have wireless? > > I believe the latest internet expression is *facepalm* Personally, I think the opportunity for some humourous comment was missed by the vendor, who clearly couldn't see the joke. Unless I've just been *whooshed* for the exact same reason? Cheers! Ade. From ray at arachelian.com Sat Mar 7 18:43:55 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:43:55 -0500 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <200903081031.43281.thrashbarg@kaput.homeunix.org> References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200903081031.43281.thrashbarg@kaput.homeunix.org> Message-ID: <49B314CB.6070408@arachelian.com> > >From the auction: > Q: Hi, will this run OS X? Does it have wireless? > > I believe the latest internet expression is *facepalm* > > > -- Alexis > There is way to make it run OS X, gut the Lisa, a mac mini with the wifi module, and a properly sized 12" LCD monitor and build a Mac in a Lisa case. :-) But let's reserve that idea to a non-working, beyond repair Lisa. From james at jdfogg.com Sat Mar 7 21:55:32 2009 From: james at jdfogg.com (James Fogg) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:55:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4725.192.168.99.142.1236484532.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> > Whats it worth bidding?? I would love to bid, and its stayed so cheap, I > just want to meet the reserve, but if other bid (and there is also said to > be 326 watchers), I don't want to get cought up in the moment and bid my > life away, I just want to know whats its worth before I bid, you guys seem > like experts in this area. Wow! The economy must truly be Borked. Not long ago this could have been a $10,000 item. -- James - Certified autodidactic polymath and proud of it! From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Mar 8 00:12:07 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:12:07 -0800 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) Message-ID: <49B361B7.2070101@bitsavers.org> > Not long ago this could have been a $10,000 item. Before pursuing this, take a look at the fake Apple I thread from last June. Twiggy Macs go for that much, Lisa 2's do not. From toby at coreware.co.uk Sun Mar 8 04:11:42 2009 From: toby at coreware.co.uk (Tobias Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 09:11:42 +0000 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay Message-ID: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> Just spotted this on comp.sys.dec: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320347786935 Looks like an amazing item for some lucky soul. Just wish I wasn't in the UK, bit of a long drive to pick up. Toby -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Mar 8 04:45:03 2009 From: arcarlini at iee.org (arcarlini at iee.org) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:45:03 -0000 Subject: Music @ Bletchley In-Reply-To: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BEF2FF54B634024BBB8FD4F894C894F@AntonioPC> Old computers never die ... http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/03/06/bletchley-park-retro-co mputer-orchestra/1 Antonio From dgahling at hotmail.com Sun Mar 8 09:44:00 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 10:44:00 -0400 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <49B361B7.2070101@bitsavers.org> References: <49B361B7.2070101@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: has anyone read the auction and seen the "Buy It Now" ? no? the reserve is normally the same (or close), buy it now for $5K ! so whoever said $1k-$2k, its not going to go for that. the guy obviously thinks it's worth a lot more. I once saw a Sun server (worth at most $1500) go for over $5000 on fleabay... > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:12:07 -0800 > From: aek at bitsavers.org > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > CC: > Subject: Re: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) > > > Not long ago this could have been a $10,000 item. > > Before pursuing this, take a look at the fake Apple I > thread from last June. > > Twiggy Macs go for that much, Lisa 2's do not. > > _________________________________________________________________ Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650731 From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 09:58:55 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 06:58:55 -0800 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: References: <49B361B7.2070101@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: I believe someone actually offered over $4000 (but not quite the "Buy it noiw" price, and the seller turned him down. Mark On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > > has anyone read the auction and seen the "Buy It Now" ? > no? > > the reserve is normally the same (or close), > > buy it now for $5K ! > > so whoever said $1k-$2k, its not going to go for that. > the guy obviously thinks it's worth a lot more. > > I once saw a Sun server (worth at most $1500) go for over $5000 > on fleabay... > >> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:12:07 -0800 >> From: aek at bitsavers.org >> To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org >> CC: >> Subject: Re: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) >> >> ?> Not long ago this could have been a $10,000 item. >> >> Before pursuing this, take a look at the fake Apple I >> thread from last June. >> >> Twiggy Macs go for that much, Lisa 2's do not. >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650731 From alec at sensi.org Sun Mar 8 10:50:44 2009 From: alec at sensi.org (Alexander Voropay) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:50:44 +0300 Subject: 8088 vs. 80c88 In-Reply-To: <49947D3D.5020008@oldskool.org> References: <49926C6D.6090602@oldskool.org> <49947D3D.5020008@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <347d9b1b0903080850p5b251550wccd11fc9a11191b0@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/12 Jim Leonard : > The bug only asserts itself when an interrupt occurs during the REP. > Buggy CPUs don't continue; later ones do. If anyone still have interest to the original topic, ;) This issue (and many others) are described in the epic Ralf Brown's Interrupt List: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ralf/files.html Part D, 86BUGS.LST -- -=AV=- From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 8 12:26:51 2009 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 12:26:51 -0500 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <01C99F3C.306A5960@host-208-72-122-25.dyn.295.ca> Message-ID: <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> > It's not just theft; apparently copying a piece of software is equivalent > to hijacking a tanker off the coast of Somalia, holding it and the crew > for millions in ransom, perhaps killing a few along the way, etc., or > the older images of slashing cutlasses, raping and pillaging, etc. > > No doubt the same punishment will soon apply... After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with Mickey Mouse and Excel. (Said dripping with bitter sarcasm...) BLS From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Mar 8 12:38:37 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 10:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> from "blstuart@bellsouth.net" at "Mar 8, 9 12:26:51 pm" Message-ID: <200903081738.n28HcbdM010960@floodgap.com> > After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization > to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of > Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. > We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with > Mickey Mouse and Excel. I like Beethoven better than Excel, so actually I agree with this premise. ;) -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ From jim at g1jbg.co.uk Sun Mar 8 13:39:02 2009 From: jim at g1jbg.co.uk (Jim Beacon) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:39:02 -0000 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> Message-ID: <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> From: "Tobias Russell" > Just spotted this on comp.sys.dec: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320347786935 > > Looks like an amazing item for some lucky soul. Just wish I wasn't in > the UK, bit of a long drive to pick up. > > > Toby If you get it, I've got one disk pack that will fit :) Jim. (also in the UK) From pontus at update.uu.se Sun Mar 8 14:19:03 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:19:03 +0100 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> Message-ID: <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se> Jim Beacon wrote: > > From: "Tobias Russell" > >> Just spotted this on comp.sys.dec: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320347786935 >> >> Looks like an amazing item for some lucky soul. Just wish I wasn't in >> the UK, bit of a long drive to pick up. >> >> >> Toby > > If you get it, I've got one disk pack that will fit :) > > Jim. (also in the UK) > You do know how big these are!? Pretty cool though. Cheers, Pontus. From jim at g1jbg.co.uk Sun Mar 8 14:30:30 2009 From: jim at g1jbg.co.uk (Jim Beacon) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 19:30:30 -0000 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo><100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <7D2FF9F17B684B6190F4D44947FA50D1@XPBOX> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pontus" >> >> If you get it, I've got one disk pack that will fit :) >> >> Jim. (also in the UK) >> > > You do know how big these are!? Pretty cool though. > > Cheers, > Pontus. > That's why I only have the pack! Jim. From toby at coreware.co.uk Sun Mar 8 14:52:24 2009 From: toby at coreware.co.uk (Tobias Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:52:24 +0000 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se> References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> Yep, but I would make the space. Alas though the logistics of getting it across the Atlantic are too great so I'll have to keep dreaming of such things. Out of interest any fellow DEC collectors got an RP series disk on any of their machines? The last ones I saw was about 20 years ago on an 11/40. Toby On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 20:19 +0100, Pontus wrote: > Jim Beacon wrote: > > > > From: "Tobias Russell" > > > >> Just spotted this on comp.sys.dec: > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320347786935 > >> > >> Looks like an amazing item for some lucky soul. Just wish I wasn't in > >> the UK, bit of a long drive to pick up. > >> > >> > >> Toby > > > > If you get it, I've got one disk pack that will fit :) > > > > Jim. (also in the UK) > > > > You do know how big these are!? Pretty cool though. > > Cheers, > Pontus. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 8 15:02:05 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:02:05 -0500 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B297DA.6020604@bitsavers.org> References: <49B297DA.6020604@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090308120438.03f0ace8@mail.threedee.com> At 10:50 AM 3/7/2009, Al Kossow wrote: >hadn't seen this before > >http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#projetssimilaires You didn't say enough about it, Al! The page is in French. It looks quite interesting: a card with a floppy connector and a USB port to connect to a host computer, serving up floppy disk images to the classic computer. Works with Atari ST, Amiga, Amstrad, Korg, Oric, IBM PC, MSX, Sinclair. - John From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Mar 8 15:16:53 2009 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:16:53 -0700 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se> <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> Message-ID: <16166EEB-8320-491B-A72C-D1DDBBFEA456@shiresoft.com> I have a couple of CDC 9766s on my 11/70. I also have a couple of RP06s that will probably go on my 2065 once it's restored. You can see them at http://web.mac.com/ggs17. TTFN - Guy On Mar 8, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Tobias Russell wrote: > Yep, but I would make the space. Alas though the logistics of > getting it > across the Atlantic are too great so I'll have to keep dreaming of > such > things. > > Out of interest any fellow DEC collectors got an RP series disk on any > of their machines? The last ones I saw was about 20 years ago on an > 11/40. > > Toby > > On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 20:19 +0100, Pontus wrote: >> Jim Beacon wrote: >>> >>> From: "Tobias Russell" >>> >>>> Just spotted this on comp.sys.dec: >>>> >>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320347786935 >>>> >>>> Looks like an amazing item for some lucky soul. Just wish I >>>> wasn't in >>>> the UK, bit of a long drive to pick up. >>>> >>>> >>>> Toby >>> >>> If you get it, I've got one disk pack that will fit :) >>> >>> Jim. (also in the UK) >>> >> >> You do know how big these are!? Pretty cool though. >> >> Cheers, >> Pontus. >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > From caveguy at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 8 16:28:57 2009 From: caveguy at sbcglobal.net (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:28:57 -0500 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20090308120438.03f0ace8@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:02:05 -0500, John Foust wrote: >At 10:50 AM 3/7/2009, Al Kossow wrote: >>hadn't seen this before >> >>http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#projetssimilaires >You didn't say enough about it, Al! The page is in French. >It looks quite interesting: a card with a floppy connector and >a USB port to connect to a host computer, serving up floppy >disk images to the classic computer. Works with Atari ST, >Amiga, Amstrad, Korg, Oric, IBM PC, MSX, Sinclair. >- John Ok I am confused ~ The Floppy connector does it connect to a floppy drive or a computer as if it was a floppy ? Does a Flash drive plug into the USB slot and act like a floppy ? or is this a USB device From pontus at update.uu.se Sun Mar 8 16:15:35 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:15:35 +0100 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se> <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> Message-ID: <49B43577.6090404@update.uu.se> Tobias Russell wrote: > Yep, but I would make the space. Alas though the logistics of getting it > across the Atlantic are too great so I'll have to keep dreaming of such > things. > > Out of interest any fellow DEC collectors got an RP series disk on any > of their machines? The last ones I saw was about 20 years ago on an > 11/40. > > Toby > The local computer club has RP06 and RP07 that was connected to a DECsystem-20, but they have not been running for many years. /P From brianlanning at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 16:23:25 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:23:25 -0500 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20090308120438.03f0ace8@mail.threedee.com> <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903081423u7dca722dtd553564e97b367b@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Bob Bradlee wrote: > > Ok I am confused ~ > The Floppy connector does it connect to a floppy drive or a computer as if it was a floppy ? > Does a Flash drive plug into the USB slot and act like a floppy ? > or is this a USB device My french is a bit rusty. But it looks like the windows software (through the hardware shown) pretends to be a vintage floppy drive. You load up the old disk image in windows, then the old machine is fooled into thinking it's talking to the correct floppy drive. I'd love to have one. brian From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Sun Mar 8 16:54:59 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: low-capacity compact flash Message-ID: Does anyone here have any low-capacity compact flash cards to get rid of? I'm talking around 256 megs or less. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From FJGJR1 at aol.com Sun Mar 8 16:55:31 2009 From: FJGJR1 at aol.com (FJGJR1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:55:31 EDT Subject: Edge punched cards Message-ID: Hi! Don' forget about the edge punched cards of "McBee Keysort Cards" so popular in the 1960's, at least in the USA! I still have a box of them in our basement waiting for the dumpster. Sure brings back memories of how things have changed so much in managing data on a personal basis. They really helped me with my Ph.D. thesis in organic chemistry with respect to all the references for doing the research and also for writing the thesis. I think I saw someplace on the internet a few months ago that someone was interested in them. If I recall correctly, they were possibly thinking about some sort of automated system of accessing them so that the info could be put into a computer. The cards were from sort of past big project. So you may want to do a Google search and see what you come up with. Frank PA USA In a message dated 3/6/2009 5:11:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: Thining of edge-punched cards... The original membership cards for the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society had 8-level paper-tape punchings along the bottom edge giving (IIRC) 'CUCPS' (im ASCII),. the member's computer userid (ditto) and the membership number (3 bytes, binary). I don;t think anyone ever tried to machine-read them though. -tony **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005) From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 8 17:15:04 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:15:04 -0500 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20090308120438.03f0ace8@mail.threedee.com> <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090308171117.03f09fa8@mail.threedee.com> At 04:28 PM 3/8/2009, Bob Bradlee wrote: >Ok I am confused ~ The Floppy connector does it connect to a floppy drive >or a computer as if it was a floppy ? Does a Flash drive plug into the >USB slot and act like a floppy ? or is this a USB device Look at the pictures. Yes, the card acts like a 3 1/2" floppy at the electrical level. There's just a ribbon going to the classic machine and a USB to the contemporary PC where it reads/writes to a virtual disk image in a file. - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 8 17:27:44 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> References: <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20090308152701.V36889@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote: > After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization > to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of > Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. > We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with > Mickey Mouse and Excel. > > (Said dripping with bitter sarcasm...) You DON'T think that Weird and Excess have damaged civilization? From jim at g1jbg.co.uk Sun Mar 8 18:09:08 2009 From: jim at g1jbg.co.uk (Jim Beacon) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:09:08 -0000 Subject: surplus DEC power controllers Message-ID: Hi, I have two spare DEC 877-F power controllers (the type used in the 11/84 and 11/94). These are configured for 240V, single phase. I'm happy to post them anywhere at cost, but would prefer them to be collected. They are free, but I'm always interested in DEC stuff - any one got any covers for a BA 23 box? Regards Jim. From IanK at vulcan.com Sun Mar 8 18:09:29 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:09:29 -0700 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se>,<1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> Message-ID: We're running our 2065 at the PDP Planet site off an RP06. An interesting experience, to say the least. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tobias Russell [toby at coreware.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 12:52 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Wow! RP06 on Ebay Yep, but I would make the space. Alas though the logistics of getting it across the Atlantic are too great so I'll have to keep dreaming of such things. Out of interest any fellow DEC collectors got an RP series disk on any of their machines? The last ones I saw was about 20 years ago on an 11/40. Toby On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 20:19 +0100, Pontus wrote: > Jim Beacon wrote: > > > > From: "Tobias Russell" > > > >> Just spotted this on comp.sys.dec: > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320347786935 > >> > >> Looks like an amazing item for some lucky soul. Just wish I wasn't in > >> the UK, bit of a long drive to pick up. > >> > >> > >> Toby > > > > If you get it, I've got one disk pack that will fit :) > > > > Jim. (also in the UK) > > > > You do know how big these are!? Pretty cool though. > > Cheers, > Pontus. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Mar 8 18:20:55 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:20:55 -0400 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <100273D49FF04909AFF1C4AC53E7FE27@XPBOX> <49B41A27.7010001@update.uu.se>, <1236541944.6317.12.camel@spasmo> Message-ID: <25601.1236554455@mini> Ian King wrote: >We're running our 2065 at the PDP Planet site off an RP06. An interesting >experience, to say the least. -- Ian Please continue. I wish I'd paid more attention when the DEC service guy was doing PM. I assume it's massbus, which means (i'm out of my depth here) there is a ribbon cable from the drive to a controller which in turn connects to the backplane? just curious about how it's connected and how you went about making it operational. and it runs 24x7 now? how often do you do PM and who does it? -brad From doug at stillhq.com Sun Mar 8 18:47:57 2009 From: doug at stillhq.com (Doug Jackson) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:47:57 +1100 Subject: UNIX funny, classic computing relevant In-Reply-To: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220902281136s7174342fm4b0456ce8d99dd1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B4592D.1060305@stillhq.com> 0x124 - Guru The PDP8 at school (When I was a youngster) with the ASR33 teletype and dual Dectape helped a bit. But I will admit that my only experience with punch cards was as note paper... PS - Thanks to the list for helping me with the SC/MP questions I had - My new SC/MP with 28K of ram (oh the space!!!) is almost finished! Doug John Floren wrote: > I was just browsing around on UP and found > http://up.update.uu.se/DSK%3AHUMOR1%3BUNIX%20TEST > I took the test and got 0x72, "operator", not bad for being born after > half the things mentioned were retired :) > > > John > From doug at stillhq.com Sun Mar 8 19:14:57 2009 From: doug at stillhq.com (Doug Jackson) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:14:57 +1100 Subject: S-100 backplane board spacing In-Reply-To: <69F036A9679C45F5A0CCDE8E1D10D5A0@andrewdesktop> References: <69F036A9679C45F5A0CCDE8E1D10D5A0@andrewdesktop> Message-ID: <49B45F81.7060006@stillhq.com> Hi Andrew, That is a brilliant effort, and will be worthwhile once it is produced. Just a couple of small things I noticed. 1) Is it possible to use a pad that has a little bit more copper area than the thin pads I see on the diagram. My standard complaint with modern PCB software is that the pads are too small, (or possibly I am too old!) and I tend to have to make my own pads. 2) Where the tracks pass 'through' the connector, there is a fairly long area where they are *very* close. If you alter the layout, you could reduce that, and reduce the likelihood that constructors would introduce a short when they are manufacturing the board (of course, that probably isn't an issue when you use a commercial PCB facility and use solder masks.) My experience is making PCBs at home, where there is no concept of *very fine* spacings. In any case, please mark me down for two when you do a PCB run. (seems to me like you could link them using the headers!) Doug Andrew Lynch wrote: > S-100 backplane board spacing > > Hi, here is a rough draft of the PCB layout for a low cost S-100 prototyping > PCB I am considering. The primary goal is to make this PCB affordable yet > still useful to S-100 hobbyists. It is not intended to be a full blown > S-100 system or a permanent backplane but rather a bench tool. Keeping the > costs low means a small number of connectors and avoiding features such as > termination, etc. Having a small number of connectors minimizes the bus > length and reduces the need for termination. A benefit of this backplane is > a hobbyist could use it to develop new boards and/or repair older ones > without risking damage to a costly or rare vintage S-100 chassis. > > The builder would have to supply the necessary S-100 voltages from their own > power supply. The power supply interface is just PCB pads that could have a > connector or just direct wired to the supply. Possible power supply > solutions would be off the shelf SMPSUs to supply +15VDC, -15VDC, and 9VDC > to the rails or alternatively surplus laptop adapters could be modified to > supply the necessary power. A small number of boards reduces the need for > large power supply capacity. > > The 13x2 dual row header connectors are optional for use as a stand alone > S-100 backplane. However, they are necessary for my own project which will > use this PCB. PCB construction will be the usual double thickness PCB for > rigidity and double weight traces for current capacity. > > http://n8vem-sbc.pbwiki.com/f/Printing%20S100-Backplane-full-brd.pdf > > If you would be interested in a PCB, please contact me off list. My intent > is to keep this consistent with the other N8VEM PCBs so the target price is > $20 each for the PCB only plus shipping. There is no estimate for arrival > for the PCB as of now. I am only trying to gauge what, if any, interest > there might be in the S-100 hobbyist community. > > Constructive comments, suggestions, and questions appreciated. Thanks and > have a nice day! > > Andrew Lynch > > > From doug at stillhq.com Sun Mar 8 19:18:16 2009 From: doug at stillhq.com (Doug Jackson) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:18:16 +1100 Subject: S-100 backplane board spacing In-Reply-To: <49B2B006.40301@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <69F036A9679C45F5A0CCDE8E1D10D5A0@andrewdesktop> <49B2B006.40301@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <49B46048.30804@stillhq.com> How about inline fuses, and a very big crowbar? Doug bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote: > Andrew Lynch wrote: >> >> Constructive comments, suggestions, and questions appreciated. >> Thanks and >> have a nice day! > Having a standard source for a power supply, is needed. > That is what fried my last S100 bus system I had. I think every thing > needs to be on the motherboard, with linear regulation. 3 slots > sound ample. > >> Andrew Lynch >> >> >> > From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sun Mar 8 19:55:50 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 21:55:50 -0300 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0e4001c9a053$512b6d20$b2b419bb@DeskJara> The item number is: 270351871785 =========== 1,009,99 and no sale. Pity. Who wouldn't want a Lisa like that? :oD From auringer at tds.net Sun Mar 8 20:56:00 2009 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 20:56:00 -0500 Subject: Fwd: VAX field maintenance print sets In-Reply-To: <20090305174214.E13XE.58447.root@webfep14> Message-ID: <20090308205600.WV9WB.38122.root@webfep14> Hello all, I just want everyone to know that the print sets are spoken for and will be on their way soon. I wish I would have had several sets to give away. There are several people who sound like they could put them to good use. Maybe the new owner could be persuaded to share. :) Thanks for your time, Jon From fu3.org at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 21:07:20 2009 From: fu3.org at gmail.com (C.H.) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 03:07:20 +0100 Subject: low-capacity compact flash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <310f50ab0903081907j2ed4a71cu7be2890941125096@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/8 David Griffith : > > Does anyone here have any low-capacity compact flash cards to get rid of? > I'm talking around 256 megs or less. > How about just getting a common-sized one and make the partition "small enough" ? Or won't that do(?) From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Mar 8 22:20:58 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:20:58 -0400 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <25601.1236554455@mini> References: <1236503502.6317.4.camel@spasmo> <25601.1236554455@mini> Message-ID: <200903082320.58646.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 08 March 2009, Brad Parker wrote: > Ian King wrote: > >We're running our 2065 at the PDP Planet site off an RP06. An > > interesting experience, to say the least. -- Ian > > Please continue. > > I wish I'd paid more attention when the DEC service guy was doing PM. > > I assume it's massbus, which means (i'm out of my depth here) there > is a ribbon cable from the drive to a controller which in turn > connects to the backplane? Not quite a ribbon cable... "internal" massbuss cables are a set of 3, 40 pin ribbon cables, and the external one is a fairly thick (1" or so) cable, probably 120 pins just like the internal cable (though I haven't pulled one apart to check). This would connect to a multi-board massbus controller in the machine. Oh, and it uses three-phase power (as do all the RP disk drives). The RP06 isn't too bad, power wise, it only is rated to use 12A at 208V 3 phase operating current: http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/rp06.html Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Mar 8 22:27:57 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:27:57 -0400 Subject: low-capacity compact flash In-Reply-To: <310f50ab0903081907j2ed4a71cu7be2890941125096@mail.gmail.com> References: <310f50ab0903081907j2ed4a71cu7be2890941125096@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903082327.57837.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 08 March 2009, C.H. wrote: > 2009/3/8 David Griffith : > > Does anyone here have any low-capacity compact flash cards to get > > rid of? I'm talking around 256 megs or less. > > How about just getting a common-sized one and make the partition > "small enough" ? I don't know about what David is doing this for, but I've got something[1] that uses a CF card for storage, which claims it won't work with >128MB cards (and it actually didn't work when I tried a large one in it). [1] A somewhat off-topic Cisco router. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cclist at sydex.com Sun Mar 8 22:44:08 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:44:08 -0800 Subject: low-capacity compact flash In-Reply-To: <200903082327.57837.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: , <310f50ab0903081907j2ed4a71cu7be2890941125096@mail.gmail.com>, <200903082327.57837.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <49B42008.2329.9E98326@cclist.sydex.com> On 8 Mar 2009 at 23:27, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I don't know about what David is doing this for, but I've got > something[1] that uses a CF card for storage, which claims it won't > work with >128MB cards (and it actually didn't work when I tried a > large one in it). I had a similar problem with a 4GB CF card in my digicam. Just flat out gave the "card not usable" message and refused to do anything. On a hunch, I plugged it into my Windoze system and did a FORMAT /FS:FAT (to get a 16-bit FAT) and the thing worked fine, with the exception of the exposure count reading "999". I've got three 192MB cards here and will happily swap them for something larger. Cheers, Chuck From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Mar 9 01:22:14 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: low-capacity compact flash In-Reply-To: <200903082327.57837.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <310f50ab0903081907j2ed4a71cu7be2890941125096@mail.gmail.com> <200903082327.57837.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sunday 08 March 2009, C.H. wrote: >> 2009/3/8 David Griffith : >>> Does anyone here have any low-capacity compact flash cards to get >>> rid of? I'm talking around 256 megs or less. >> >> How about just getting a common-sized one and make the partition >> "small enough" ? > > I don't know about what David is doing this for, but I've got > something[1] that uses a CF card for storage, which claims it won't > work with >128MB cards (and it actually didn't work when I tried a > large one in it). > > [1] A somewhat off-topic Cisco router. It's for a 7-year-old digital camera that still works just fine for what I use it for. There are also FPGA things I'd like to fiddle with that involve putting code on CF. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From benrgarza at hotmail.com Sun Mar 8 13:00:42 2009 From: benrgarza at hotmail.com (Rick Garza) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:00:42 -0500 Subject: Looking for hp 10342B IA's Message-ID: FW: Glen Slick, Am looking for the IA's that went with the hp 10342b preprocessor. Noticed that you had it at one time. Any chance could zip me a copy and email it? Or do you know of a ftp site, web link, etc... Regards, Rick Garza From ohh at panix.com Sun Mar 8 13:05:24 2009 From: ohh at panix.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking For A PDP-12 Doc Message-ID: Hey, all: Does someone have a copy, PDF or otherwise, of DEC's "PDP-12 Adjustment Procedure" (DEC-12-HGZA-D or similar)? If so, please let me know. Thanks! -O.- From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 8 13:53:07 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? Message-ID: <640913.77131.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 3/8/09, blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with Mickey Mouse and Excel. (Said dripping with bitter sarcasm...) BLS ?But all that *code* is? immeasurably old. Which is ok in my book (in many instances 20+ year old code is also ok in my book). But you're not suggesting recently developed code should fall into the same category? Thou shalt not muzzle the oxe when it's treading out the alfalfa sprouts. Or something close. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 8 13:57:32 2009 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:57:32 -0400 Subject: S-100 backplane board spacing Message-ID: <0KG7002DIB98DNVO@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> Hi Andrew, Before you commit you may want to consider bus termination for the data/address/control lines. One area a troubles can s100 to host bridge grounding and signals. You really want the N8VEM and you S100 to ahve excellent grounds between them. Also since your using Z80 S100 spec is that a8-15 are an echo of A0-A7 during IO operations. Not all S100 Z80's did that but many did and some fo the older IO boards expected that as it allowed easier routing for the board. You may have to have bus timing issues as ALL Z80 baords had to bend the Z80 timing to S100 timing. I assume the bridge baord will do that. Beware, no matter how well you design due the variables and ages of some boards you will have boards that refuse to behave. It's a side effect of early 8080 S100 and later Z80 S100 and then finally IEEE696 and the subtle differnces that evolved. Allison > >Subject: RE: S-100 backplane board spacing > From: "Andrew Lynch" > Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 10:43:54 -0500 > To: > >S-100 backplane board spacing > >Hi, here is a rough draft of the PCB layout for a low cost S-100 prototyping >PCB I am considering.? The primary goal is to make this PCB affordable yet >still useful to S-100 hobbyists.? It is not intended to be a full blown >S-100 system or a permanent backplane but rather a bench tool.? Keeping the >costs low means a small number of connectors and?avoiding features such as >termination, etc.???Having a small number of connectors minimizes the bus >length and reduces the need for termination.? A benefit of this backplane is >a hobbyist could use it to develop new boards and/or repair older ones >without risking damage to a costly or rare vintage S-100 chassis. >? >The builder would have to supply the necessary S-100 voltages from their own >power supply.? The power supply interface is just PCB pads that could have a >connector or just direct wired to the supply.? Possible power supply >solutions would be off the shelf SMPSUs to supply +15VDC, -15VDC, and 9VDC >to the rails or alternatively surplus laptop adapters could be modified to >supply the necessary power.? A small number of boards reduces the need for >large power supply capacity. >? >The 13x2 dual row header connectors are optional for use as a stand alone >S-100 backplane.? However, they are necessary for my own project which will >use?this PCB.? PCB construction will be the usual double thickness PCB for >rigidity and double weight traces for current capacity. >? >http://n8vem-sbc.pbwiki.com/f/Printing%20S100-Backplane-full-brd.pdf >? >If you would be interested in a PCB, please contact me off list.? My intent >is to keep this consistent with the other N8VEM PCBs so the target price is >$20 each for the PCB only plus shipping.? There is no estimate for arrival >for the PCB as of now.? I am only trying to gauge what, if any, interest >there might be in the S-100 hobbyist community. >? >Constructive comments, suggestions, and questions appreciated.? Thanks and >have a nice day! > >Andrew Lynch > From philip at axeside.co.uk Sun Mar 8 16:39:57 2009 From: philip at axeside.co.uk (Philip Belben) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:39:57 +0000 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: References: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B43B2D.8030305@axeside.co.uk> [cards for sorting with needles] William Donzelli asserted: > It is actually a trinary system - hole, no hole, or slot. > Additionally, the edges could be multiple levels deep (generally two), > so you could do multiple level sorts. Are you sure about the "no hole"? I query this for two reasons: Firstly, the deck I have of blank ones has all the holes around the edge pre-punched. Secondly, how would you sort? If there are any cards at all in the deck with the hole filled, you can't sort in a single operation. You have to drill down to the filled hole and split the deck; extract the filled-hole cards; and repeat until you've got to the end. (To put it another way, you cannot detect any holes in cards sandwiched between two filled-hole cards without splitting the deck) I like the idea of a second hole, further in. This implements ternary rather nicely: the states are no slot, shallow slot, deep slot. (Needle in outer hole leaves all cards with slots. Needle in inner hole leaves only cards with deep slots). A fourth state joining the two holes without taking the slot to the edge is possible but not recommended, because the cards don't come off the needle, they just hang at different heights, making them harder to handle. Philip. From ray at arachelian.com Mon Mar 9 05:11:06 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 06:11:06 -0400 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <0e4001c9a053$512b6d20$b2b419bb@DeskJara> References: <207569.80753.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <0e4001c9a053$512b6d20$b2b419bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49B4EB3A.7000200@arachelian.com> Alexandre Souza wrote: > The item number is: 270351871785 > =========== > > 1,009,99 and no sale. Pity. > Who wouldn't want a Lisa like that? :oD > The question is really how much is someone willing to pay for a Lisa like that. :-) Apparently ~$1K was the right price range, but the seller didn't want to part with it at that price, and wanted about 4-5x too much for it. Lisa 2's aren't really that rare - the unopened software (which, again, wasn't clearly listed), the original mouse, the packing materials, and the rare Desktop Calendar software were the only high priced factors there. IMHO, if you want a Lisa, get a run of the mill Lisa 2, ones whose NiCad battery pack has been removed before it leaked, and try to either find a working Profile drive, or one of the X/Profile replacements, then preemptively replace the large capacitors in the power supply. The X/Profiles are probably a better way to spend your money since they're far less likely to die anytime soon than a real Profile or Widget hard drive. - Yeah, a working Widget drive is rare, but it's unlikely it'll last a very long time, and so far we don't have a way to low-level format them. There is a way to low level format Profile drives if you also have an Apple III (or II) with the Profile card and the proper ROM and software (which at some point was available on the net.) But right now, there's no such thing for Widget drives. So once the sync/ID markers on the tracks go bad, you can't fix them even if the media itself isn't damaged. So while Widgets are great things, practically speaking, you're better off with a Profile, or X/Profile, or building an IDE::File. A Lisa 2 in good working condition with an X/Profile will still cost roughly $1000, and you won't get the unopened software, original mouse and packing materials. So it's less of a collectors' item, but far more reasonably priced. But you'll get a very usable Lisa 2 which you can enjoy for many years, and they're still wonderful machines. Sadly, perfection is very expensive. From wdonzelli at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 06:38:57 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 06:38:57 -0500 Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49B43B2D.8030305@axeside.co.uk> References: <20090306170759.E56185@shell.lmi.net> <49B43B2D.8030305@axeside.co.uk> Message-ID: > Are you sure about the "no hole"? ?I query this for two reasons: > > Firstly, the deck I have of blank ones has all the holes around the edge > pre-punched. There were several makers of edge punch cards, all slightly different in format. > Secondly, how would you sort? ?If there are any cards at all in the deck > with the hole filled, you can't sort in a single operation. ?You have to > drill down to the filled hole and split the deck; extract the filled-hole > cards; and repeat until you've got to the end. Yes, not a useful a sort as the normal method of lifting the cards, but still valid. > I like the idea of a second hole, further in. ?This implements ternary > rather nicely: the states are no slot, shallow slot, deep slot. That is true - I had not thought of that as trinary, but I suppose it is. It seems that having multiple levels was more used for nested searches. -- Will From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 9 09:19:59 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:19:59 +0100 Subject: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface Message-ID: <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> I have free for the cost of shipping a Kineticsystems Camac q-bus interface pulled from a Mirco Vax II a long time ago. It's including a short flatcable I'll put a picture on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3341557688/ Please contact me off-list. -Rik From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 09:31:54 2009 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Mr Ian Primus) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 07:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... Message-ID: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well, I did something mildly stupid recently, and I did it even though I _knew_ the dangers. Some people might not know these dangers (or think about them), so I figured I'd post a word of warning, since this is bound to come up in classic computing. So, I was recently givin a copy of "Mario All Stars" for the Super Nintendo. It played, but the save game feature doesn't work. These cartridges use a battery-backed SRAM chip to store save games. So, my assumption was that the battery was simply dead. Opening the cartridge revealed the problem. The battery (a solder-tab style CR2032) was actually good, but the positive terminal 'tab' had come off. The spot-welds just let go. It must have been poorly made, and then got dropped at some point. I don't have a replacement battery with solder tabs, nor do I have a way to get one quickly. But, this seems simple enough, I'll just solder the tab back on. Now, I've soldered to coin batteries before and never had a problem. The trick is to rough up the surface of the battery so the solder can stick, and work quickly to avoid damaging the battery. Well, this battery wasn't having any of that. The solder simply would not flow. It was then that I thought "I can't heat a lithium battery too much - it might explode!". So I donned my full face mask and got back to work. More attempts to get the solder to stick were failing. I tried piling on more solder, so that the flux might have a chance to get it to flow. It looked like it was just about to stick and.... PFOOOF!! Yes. Lithium batteries _do_ explode when heated too much. The battery exploded sending bits of black crud and molten solder (that never stuck to the battery) everywhere. It suprised the hell out of me, that's for sure. I heard a little *plink* as the top cover of the battery landed behind me. I just stared at the bottom of the battery on the bench for a minute, startled. I took off the face mask and went to get the vacuum cleaner to clean up the mess. After cleaning up the debris and finding the battery tab and the battery cover, I was trying to figure out how to replace this battery - and if I should try soldering to another cell (more quickly, this time). I then looked over at my face mask on the table. It was covered with solder spashes, and quite a lot of it too (remember, I was trying to get the flux to help the solder flow). Had I not been wearing that mask, I would have gotten all sorts of crud in my eyes. I've always worn this mask when drilling, dremeling, using the table saw, and yes, when soldering to batteries. This is the first time one has actually exploded though. Yeah, it was my fault, I heated it too much - I should have known better. But it's easy to get frustrated and forget. But never forget to put on safety equipment when working with stuff like this. Givin the choice, I'd always rather have a piece of impact-resistant polycarbonate between me and flying shards of hot metal. -Ian From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 09:41:14 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:41:14 -0500 Subject: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface In-Reply-To: <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> References: <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Rik Bos wrote: > > I have free for the cost of shipping a Kineticsystems Camac q-bus interface > pulled from a Mirco Vax II a long time ago. > It's including a short flatcable I'll put a picture on flickr > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3341557688/ Wow... CAMAC. I've only ever seen that in one place - AMANDA (the precursor project to IceCube). We had (still in place, but powered down) 4 CAMAC crates loaded with hundreds of channels of A/D cards that sampled the waveforms coming up out of the ice from the PMTs (photomultiplier tubes). All four are chained together, then to a Wiener VME box (quite a fancy one) with a 200MHz PowerPC SBC running LynxOS (a real-time UNIX). I've never seen CAMAC outside of particle physics. I'm curious where that MicroVAX has been. -ethan From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 9 09:54:56 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:54:56 +0100 Subject: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface In-Reply-To: References: <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> Message-ID: It was used at the Univerity of Utrecht at Astronomy department. What it actualy did, I don't know, it ran in a cluster with several Vaxstations and some terminals. I know that because I got the hole lot together with a Tek 4011 terminal. -Rik > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Ethan Dicks > Verzonden: maandag 9 maart 2009 15:41 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Onderwerp: Re: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Rik Bos wrote: > > > > I have free for the cost of shipping a Kineticsystems Camac q-bus > > interface pulled from a Mirco Vax II a long time ago. > > It's including a short flatcable I'll put a picture on flickr > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3341557688/ > > Wow... CAMAC. I've only ever seen that in one place - AMANDA > (the precursor project to IceCube). We had (still in place, > but powered > down) 4 CAMAC crates loaded with hundreds of channels of A/D > cards that sampled the waveforms coming up out of the ice > from the PMTs (photomultiplier tubes). All four are chained > together, then to a Wiener VME box (quite a fancy one) with a > 200MHz PowerPC SBC running LynxOS (a real-time UNIX). > > I've never seen CAMAC outside of particle physics. I'm > curious where that MicroVAX has been. > > -ethan From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 9 10:47:16 2009 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:47:16 +0000 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <20090308152701.V36889@shell.lmi.net> References: <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> <20090308152701.V36889@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <030920091547.17806.49B53A0400087A840000458E22230706129B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9B9D0E9A9B9C040D@att.net> > > After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization > > to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of > > Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. > > We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with > > Mickey Mouse and Excel. > > > > (Said dripping with bitter sarcasm...) > > You DON'T think that Weird and Excess have damaged civilization? Heaven forbid! That would just be crazy talk :) (There's a good reason all of my writing is done in TeX.) A little more seriously though, this does highlight the fact that the value of the information and the value of free access to the information are two different things. Like everyone else, I can point to those ideas and expressions thereof that in my opinion are braindead. But free access to all the Kibo-isms, just as to all the Einsteinian musings is the sine quo non of an enlightened culture. If anything is kept secret, and if it is illegal to figure out how to read the secret writings and to tell others how to read them, then only outlaws will be literate in any meaningful sense of the word. The inclusion of the word "millennium" in the DMCA is telling. For it is the mindset behind that kind of thing that is most likely to produce another thousand-year dark ages. BLS From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 9 11:05:25 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:05:25 -0800 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> References: <01C99F3C.306A5960@host-208-72-122-25.dyn.295.ca>, <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <49B4CDC5.4971.C9091E5@cclist.sydex.com> On 8 Mar 2009 at 12:26, blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote: > After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization > to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of > Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. > We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with > Mickey Mouse and Excel. Or Gershwin, Ellington, Shostakovitch, Britten, Vaughan Williams.... Oh, wait--those are all still under copyright, aren't they? Yup, you;'re right--*nobody* even knows of much less enjoys their work today because of that nasty copyright law. Did you know that Handel swore off writing Italian opera because he was widely pirated? Better not to write the stuff if it's going to be stolen. --Chuck From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 9 11:26:13 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:26:13 -0400 Subject: Anybody need Compact flash cards? Message-ID: <49B54325.9080408@sbcglobal.net> Please reply directly to me, I'm quite behind on my ClassicCmp reading... :) A friend of mine has about 8 or 9 Compact FLash cards, sizes from 256 MB - 1GB. Anybody have a good use for them? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 9 11:44:54 2009 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:44:54 +0000 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <49B4CDC5.4971.C9091E5@cclist.sydex.com> References: <01C99F3C.306A5960@host-208-72-122-25.dyn.295.ca>, <98952077ec26fa9b656963acfa5e61e5@bellsouth.net> <49B4CDC5.4971.C9091E5@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <030920091644.9922.49B54786000B1EDF000026C222230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9B9D0E9A9B9C040D@att.net> > > After all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization > > to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of > > Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. > > We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with > > Mickey Mouse and Excel. > > Or Gershwin, Ellington, Shostakovitch, Britten, Vaughan Williams.... > > Oh, wait--those are all still under copyright, aren't they? Yup, > you;'re right--*nobody* even knows of much less enjoys their work > today because of that nasty copyright law. I take your point. However, it implies that I was not sufficiently specific. I do not argue that copyrights are bad because they ensure that there will be no access to creative works. As you point out, that is clearly not the result of legal restrictions on the flow of knowledge. Rather I argue that to impose a restriction on an activity, that activity should be counter to the interests of society. Free communication of ideas is not counter to the interests of society. Copyright and patent restrictions as they exist today are not well-justified. Lest I be again unclear, I am not suggesting that all forms of legal support for the desires of authors and inventors are inappropriate. I am suggesting that the set of laws that currently exist and the way in which they are currently being applied are inappropriate in the context of today's society and technology. > Did you know that Handel swore off writing Italian opera because he > was widely pirated? > > Better not to write the stuff if it's going to be stolen. That's actually the point. When I put an idea or a creative expression out there, I cannot say ahead of time whether it will be used in a beneficial way or a detrimental way. I mean that both in the sense of not being able to predict the results and not being able to dictate the uses. If indeed I have such a strong objection to my work being transmitted without proper attribution or even with another claiming credit, then my emotional health would be better served by not making the work available at all, regardless of the government's involvement. A law that dictates what happens for 75 years after my death doesn't significantly change my motivations for making my work available. BLS From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 9 11:56:30 2009 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:56:30 +0000 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <640913.77131.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <030920091656.20739.49B54A3E0002CA1B0000510322230706129B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9B9D0E9A9B9C040D@att.net> >> all, it did immeasurable damage to western civilization >> to have unfettered access to the intellectual property of >> Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Babbage. >> We ceratinly wouldn't want to make the same mistake with >> Mickey Mouse and Excel. >> >> (Said dripping with bitter sarcasm...) > >?But all that *code* is? immeasurably old. Which is ok in my book (in many > instances 20+ year old code is also ok in my book). But you're not suggesting > recently developed code should fall into the same category? Thou shalt not > muzzle the oxe when it's treading out the alfalfa sprouts. Or something close. Immeasurably?!?!?! I know I'm a bit of an old fart, but I didn't think that the period of time since the Renaissance could be classified as being lost in the mists of time... What I had hoped my use of sarcasm would suggest is that restricting the flow of information runs counter to the progress of civilization. Had the dissemination of these influential works been prohibited until 75 years after the deaths of the authors, we would very likely not have them at all. Keep in mind that Mozart was born only 41 years after the death of Bach and Beethoven was born before Mozart died. Likewise, it was less than 75 years between the death of Babbage and Aiken's work on the Mark I. (Even though Aiken doesn't seem to have fully grasped Babbage's ideas and their implications, it is clear that Babbage's ideas were part of his inspiration in creating the Mark I.) This is not to say that it would have been impossible for these ideas to have survived in the face of such restrictions. However, the restrictions almost certainly reduce the probability of their survival. I had also hoped that it would be clear that my use of the term "intellectual property" was part of the sarcasm. Until this recent abuse of the term property, it had always been used to refer to that which derived its value from scarcity. If I transfer possession of my property to you, then I no longer have that property to use as I see fit. This is not true of ideas and of knowledge. Indeed, the value in ideas is in their influence on other ideas, which only comes through their transmission, not from hoarding them. It helps to keep in mind the context in which patents and copyrights were created. The constitutional phrasing goes: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries" This is *not* to give governmental preference to certain commercial enterprises over others, by virtue of their having claimed priority to an idea. At best the crafters of the Constitution would have laughed at such a suggestion. At that time, it was common practice for those who created applications of science in the useful arts to keep their work secret to gain financial advantage over others. This did not promote progress. It was clear that to promote progress, these creations needed to be made public. The limited exclusive rights were basically a bribe to get the authors and inventors to publicly disclose their work. It is also important to remember that when the time frames were put into place, the period of exclusivity was quite a small fraction of the overall life of the invention. The time frames were certainly not directed toward giving the authors and inventors control over the ideas until they were immeasurably old. Unfortunately, this topic has a history of degrading into emotional discussions with ad hominem arguments. So in the interest of not contributing to such a digression, I will attempt to leave this as my last contribution to the discussion. BLS From legalize at xmission.com Mon Mar 9 12:34:44 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:34:44 -0600 Subject: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:19:59 +0100. <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> Message-ID: In article <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A at xp1800>, "Rik Bos" writes: > I have free for the cost of shipping a Kineticsystems Camac q-bus interface > pulled from a Mirco Vax II a long time ago. > It's including a short flatcable I'll put a picture on flickr > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3341557688/ What does it interface to? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From erik at baigar.de Mon Mar 9 12:37:12 2009 From: erik at baigar.de (Erik Baigar) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:37:12 +0100 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: > Ok I am confused ~ > The Floppy connector does it connect to a floppy drive or a computer as if it was a floppy ? > Does a Flash drive plug into the USB slot and act like a floppy ? > or is this a USB device As mentioned in other postings, it requires a windows based PC to work. For me personally a stand-alone device using flash cards would be much more interesting, since one does not have to plug in a windows PC. On http://www.floppy-emulator.de/ such a device is shown: Multiple images seem to reside on one flash card and via front switches one of them can be selected. Has any one out there experience with this one? I asked them for pricing and I am curious on their answer... Best regards, Erik. From IanK at vulcan.com Mon Mar 9 12:42:57 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:42:57 -0700 Subject: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface In-Reply-To: References: Your message of Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:19:59 +0100. <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> Message-ID: I wondered that, too. There's a fairly decent Wikipedia article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMAC -- Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:35 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface > > > In article <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A at xp1800>, > "Rik Bos" writes: > > > I have free for the cost of shipping a Kineticsystems Camac q-bus > interface > > pulled from a Mirco Vax II a long time ago. > > It's including a short flatcable I'll put a picture on flickr > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3341557688/ > > What does it interface to? > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for > download > > > Legalize Adulthood! From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 9 12:12:51 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:12:51 -0800 Subject: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? In-Reply-To: <030920091644.9922.49B54786000B1EDF000026C222230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9B9D0E9A9B9C040D@att.net> References: <01C99F3C.306A5960@host-208-72-122-25.dyn.295.ca>, <49B4CDC5.4971.C9091E5@cclist.sydex.com>, <030920091644.9922.49B54786000B1EDF000026C222230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9B9D0E9A9B9C040D@att.net> Message-ID: <49B4DD93.24284.CCE48C8@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Mar 2009 at 16:44, Brian L. Stuart wrote: > A law that dictates what happens for 75 years after my death doesn't > significantly change my motivations for making my work available. For the record, I opposed the life+75 revision of the copyright law. And sections of DMCA are so vague that Justice has studiously avoided testing them. Patents don't work that way and basing a term of protection on someone's life span (i.e. it's financially more advantageous to live to be 95 than 25) is strange at best. But then, Mary Bono originally wanted to extend copyright protection to perpetuity. Who knows, in 500 years, someone might still be crooning "I got you, Babe". She had to settle for a meager 20 year extension of the current law. I wouldn't mind seeing copyright and patents enjoying roughly the same length of protection--and infringement of either being a felony, with rights and permissions approximately the same for both. (Music copyright is a minefield in itself). But, primarily because of WIPO and GATT and WTO, we've got what we've got. I don't seeing things changing (at least until Mickey's lease is about to run out). Cheers, Chuck From brianlanning at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 12:53:48 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:53:48 -0500 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903091053l78563b7cucb29c08e04782ae6@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Erik Baigar wrote: > As mentioned in other postings, it requires a windows based PC to > work. For me personally a stand-alone device using flash cards would be > much more interesting, since one does not have to plug in a windows > PC. > > On http://www.floppy-emulator.de/ such a device is shown: Multiple > images seem to reside on one flash card and via front switches one of > them can be selected. > > Has any one out there experience with this one? I asked them for > pricing and I am curious on their answer... I talked to the developers about buying one. They want about 90euros + 4euros for paypal. They currently have one left from the latest batch. This is for the version that connects to a PC through the USB cable. For the one that takes an SD card and has the LCD display, it's still in development. He wasn't sure when it would be ready. brian From jim at g1jbg.co.uk Mon Mar 9 13:31:24 2009 From: jim at g1jbg.co.uk (Jim Beacon) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:31:24 -0000 Subject: More surplus stuff Message-ID: Hi All, more surplus stuff, this is for collection only! A number of PDP 11/73 systems. These systems consist of a rackmount BA23 box containing the standard PSU, processor, memory, two DEQNA and an Emulex serial port controller. They have no disk drive or controller - they net booted RSX11. Most of them have front panels, and I have some sets of rack mount rails (panels and rails only available with complete system). I probably have twelve systems available. Three Videcom terminals - unsure of the model number, but a fairly standard ASCII terminal. In exchange, I'm looking for some or all of the following: Tektronix terminal (4010 or similar) uVAX 1 or 2 cards (I have more of the BA23 boxes). PDP11/93 processor. PDP11/24 PDP 11/04 PDP8A (well, we live in hope....) Thanks Jim. From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 9 13:42:36 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:42:36 -0400 Subject: Another batch of manuals / brochures that must go In-Reply-To: <20090305162648.F1AP5.57029.root@webfep14> References: <20090305162648.F1AP5.57029.root@webfep14> Message-ID: <2206.1236624156@mini> Jon Auringer wrote: >Hello again, > >Here are a few more things that need a new caretaker or are going to be recycl >ed. Look at the pictures and make me an offer. Shipping from Madison, WI 53714 > USA. > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/jja572 > >Fujitsu drives: > M2351A/AF Mini - Disk Drive CE Mannual > M2372K - Engineering Spec. > (2 copies) M2331K/M2333K - Eng. Spec > M2344K - (shown in picture, but not available) Hi, If these are not taken/claimed, I'd be happy to make an offer. How about $25 to cover shipping? -brad Brad Parker Heeltoe Consulting +1-781-483-3101 http://www.heeltoe.com From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 9 13:42:35 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:42:35 -0800 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49B4F29B.2132.D2080A2@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Mar 2009 at 7:31, Mr Ian Primus wrote: > Well, I did something mildly stupid recently, and I did it even though I > _knew_ the dangers. Some people might not know these dangers (or think > about them), so I figured I'd post a word of warning, since this is bound > to come up in classic computing. Well, at least there's still enough left of you to write the email. I've soldered to NiCd cells using a phosphoric acid flux, but the thought of doing the same to a little lithium coin cells scares the bejeezus out of me. Battery holders are good... --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 9 13:35:03 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:35:03 -0800 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, Message-ID: <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Mar 2009 at 18:37, Erik Baigar wrote: > On http://www.floppy-emulator.de/ such a device is shown: Multiple > images seem to reside on one flash card and via front switches one of > them can be selected. It'll be interesting to see if they can hold to their "all floppy drives" claim. What makes me suspicious is that they talk about reading floppies on a Windows computer, then transferring them to the CF card. Perhaps MFM soft-sectored only? I can find no other mention of this device other than one link. Perhaps it's not yet ready for prime-time? --Chuck From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 14:17:22 2009 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Mr Ian Primus) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <49B4F29B.2132.D2080A2@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <482156.67355.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 3/9/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Well, at least there's still enough left of you to > write the email. Hehe. Yup. Thanks to the safety mask, I'm perfectly fine. Some crud got on my hands and arms, but it wasn't hot, and I washed it off immediately. It was definitely an 'explosion' though, on par with a small firecracker. > I've soldered to NiCd cells using a phosphoric acid > flux, but the > thought of doing the same to a little lithium coin cells > scares the > bejeezus out of me. Battery holders are good... Yeah, I've soldered NiCd's on many occasions, and I've also been successful soldering lithium coins every time until this one. Mainly when repairing Sun NVRAM modules. Solder some bits of wire to a coin cell, and solder that to the nubs exposed by chiseling away at the epoxy on the module. I always wore a face mask when soldering those too. Better safe than sorry. I would have used a battery holder, but in the case of a Nintendo cartridge, there's too much possibilty of vibration, and the battery momentarily disconnecting. The explosion was actually pretty interesting, firing the top of the cell clean off. At least now I know what's inside a lithium battery. One of these going off would be an interesting thing to see filmed with a high speed camera and slowed down. Hmm... images of an experiment involving a lithium battery, a soldering iron, and little green plastic army men come to mind... :) -Ian From erik at baigar.de Mon Mar 9 14:29:44 2009 From: erik at baigar.de (Erik Baigar) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:29:44 +0100 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > reading floppies on a Windows computer, then transferring them to the > CF card. Perhaps MFM soft-sectored only? Yes, that is my fear, too! My intended use for this would be in older logic analyzer and oscilloscope from HP. So I asked them whether it will support e.g. LIF format. No answer yet... From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Mar 9 14:22:39 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:22:39 -0300 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007701c9a0ed$65311aa0$0d8318bb@DeskJara> > After cleaning up the debris and finding the battery tab and the battery > cover, I was trying to figure out how to replace this battery - and if I > should try soldering to another cell (more quickly, this time). I then > looked over at my face mask on the table. It was covered with solder > spashes, and quite a lot of it too (remember, I was trying to get the flux > to help the solder flow). Had I not been wearing that mask, I would have > gotten all sorts of crud in my eyes. No photos? Won't get a candy today :oP Nice you got unharmed out of that! ;oD From jim at g1jbg.co.uk Mon Mar 9 14:46:49 2009 From: jim at g1jbg.co.uk (Jim Beacon) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:46:49 -0000 Subject: More surplus stuff References: Message-ID: <3918947DA15444F7A94DAD2D362340DF@XPBOX> Should have said - this stuff is in the UK. Jim. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Beacon" To: "Classic computer list" Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: More surplus stuff Hi All, more surplus stuff, this is for collection only! A number of PDP 11/73 systems. These systems consist of a rackmount BA23 box containing the standard PSU, processor, memory, two DEQNA and an Emulex serial port controller. They have no disk drive or controller - they net booted RSX11. Most of them have front panels, and I have some sets of rack mount rails (panels and rails only available with complete system). I probably have twelve systems available. Three Videcom terminals - unsure of the model number, but a fairly standard ASCII terminal. In exchange, I'm looking for some or all of the following: Tektronix terminal (4010 or similar) uVAX 1 or 2 cards (I have more of the BA23 boxes). PDP11/93 processor. PDP11/24 PDP 11/04 PDP8A (well, we live in hope....) Thanks Jim. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1991 - Release Date: 03/09/09 07:14:00 From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 9 15:55:34 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090309122318.Y80967@shell.lmi.net> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > It'll be interesting to see if they can hold to their "all floppy > drives" claim. What makes me suspicious is that they talk about > reading floppies on a Windows computer, then transferring them to the > CF card. Perhaps MFM soft-sectored only? "ALL floppy" is the sure sign of a newbie. When Adam Osborne shot himself in the foot, he announced that his NEW machine, that would compete with the machine that he was debuting, would read and write "Every disk format in existence". Sho'nuff, soon thereafter came the inquiry from Osborne Computers asking about licensing terms for XenoCopy. Chuck, did they call y'all, too? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 9 16:19:14 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:19:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <425016.51143.qm@web23406.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Yeah, I believe those batteries need a 1 hour charge every 4 years to keep the data safe - assuming the connections don't fail, like in your case. Thanks for the safety tip, if I solder any of them in the future I'll be sure to remember what happened to you. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Mon, 9/3/09, Mr Ian Primus wrote: From: Mr Ian Primus Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Monday, 9 March, 2009, 2:31 PM Well, I did something mildly stupid recently, and I did it even though I _knew_ the dangers. Some people might not know these dangers (or think about them), so I figured I'd post a word of warning, since this is bound to come up in classic computing. So, I was recently givin a copy of "Mario All Stars" for the Super Nintendo. It played, but the save game feature doesn't work. These cartridges use a battery-backed SRAM chip to store save games. So, my assumption was that the battery was simply dead. Opening the cartridge revealed the problem. The battery (a solder-tab style CR2032) was actually good, but the positive terminal 'tab' had come off. The spot-welds just let go. It must have been poorly made, and then got dropped at some point. I don't have a replacement battery with solder tabs, nor do I have a way to get one quickly. But, this seems simple enough, I'll just solder the tab back on. Now, I've soldered to coin batteries before and never had a problem. The trick is to rough up the surface of the battery so the solder can stick, and work quickly to avoid damaging the battery. Well, this battery wasn't having any of that. The solder simply would not flow. It was then that I thought "I can't heat a lithium battery too much - it might explode!". So I donned my full face mask and got back to work. More attempts to get the solder to stick were failing. I tried piling on more solder, so that the flux might have a chance to get it to flow. It looked like it was just about to stick and.... PFOOOF!! Yes. Lithium batteries _do_ explode when heated too much. The battery exploded sending bits of black crud and molten solder (that never stuck to the battery) everywhere. It suprised the hell out of me, that's for sure. I heard a little *plink* as the top cover of the battery landed behind me. I just stared at the bottom of the battery on the bench for a minute, startled. I took off the face mask and went to get the vacuum cleaner to clean up the mess. After cleaning up the debris and finding the battery tab and the battery cover, I was trying to figure out how to replace this battery - and if I should try soldering to another cell (more quickly, this time). I then looked over at my face mask on the table. It was covered with solder spashes, and quite a lot of it too (remember, I was trying to get the flux to help the solder flow). Had I not been wearing that mask, I would have gotten all sorts of crud in my eyes. I've always worn this mask when drilling, dremeling, using the table saw, and yes, when soldering to batteries. This is the first time one has actually exploded though. Yeah, it was my fault, I heated it too much - I should have known better. But it's easy to get frustrated and forget. But never forget to put on safety equipment when working with stuff like this. Givin the choice, I'd always rather have a piece of impact-resistant polycarbonate between me and flying shards of hot metal. -Ian From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 9 16:45:49 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:45:49 -0400 Subject: Anybody need Compact flash cards? In-Reply-To: <49B54325.9080408@sbcglobal.net> References: <49B54325.9080408@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <49B58E0D.9050104@sbcglobal.net> Dave Woyciesjes wrote: > Please reply directly to me, I'm quite behind on my ClassicCmp > reading... :) > > A friend of mine has about 8 or 9 Compact FLash cards, sizes from > 256 MB - 1GB. Anybody have a good use for them? > I've gotten 3 replies. I'll let you know if there are any left, but probably won't be. Thanks. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 9 18:22:50 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:22:50 -0800 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <20090309122318.Y80967@shell.lmi.net> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309122318.Y80967@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Mar 2009 at 13:55, Fred Cisin wrote: > When Adam Osborne shot himself in the foot, he announced that his NEW > machine, that would compete with the machine that he was debuting, would > read and write "Every disk format in existence". Sho'nuff, soon > thereafter came the inquiry from Osborne Computers asking about licensing > terms for XenoCopy. Could be, I don't remember, probably lost among the "I want to copy Victor 9000/Apple/Lanier/... diskettes on my PC" inquiries. Cheers, Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 9 18:34:50 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309122318.Y80967@shell.lmi.net> <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Could be, I don't remember, probably lost among the "I want to copy > Victor 9000/Apple/Lanier/... diskettes on my PC" inquiries. How many of those included the clause, ", and I KNOW that it can be done, because they are both 300 RPM." ? From cclist at sydex.com Mon Mar 9 19:47:26 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:47:26 -0800 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Mar 2009 at 16:34, Fred Cisin wrote: > How many of those included the clause, > ", and I KNOW that it can be done, because they are both 300 RPM." ? You give them too much credit! More like "I know it can be done because it takes the same kind of diskettes as my PC". You know, Them: "I need to copy this floppy disk. "Me: "What kind of diskette is it?" Them: "Double sided, double density is what the label says." Me: "Sigh... --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 9 20:17:44 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090309180446.P97068@shell.lmi.net> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > You give them too much credit! More like "I know it can be done > because it takes the same kind of diskettes as my PC". > > You know, > Them: "I need to copy this floppy disk. > "Me: "What kind of diskette is it?" "Verbatim." "Floppy." "Magnetic." "Computer." "System." "Backup." "Data." "Accounting." "Word Processing." "Six inch." From bear at typewritten.org Mon Mar 9 20:24:39 2009 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:24:39 -0700 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <20090309180446.P97068@shell.lmi.net> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> <20090309180446.P97068@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> You know, >> Them: "I need to copy this floppy disk. >> "Me: "What kind of diskette is it?" > > "Verbatim." > "Floppy." > "Magnetic." > "Computer." > "System." > "Backup." > "Data." > "Accounting." > "Word Processing." Technically correct, yet profoundly unhelpful. I like it. ok bear From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 9 20:27:38 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:27:38 -0600 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> <20090309180446.P97068@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B5C20A.7050006@jetnet.ab.ca> r.stricklin wrote: > ok > bear Oh... the floppy jacket is extra ... this is the bare meda. From brianlanning at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 21:06:08 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:06:08 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903091906r739f2bdeh9917fb027e84c098@mail.gmail.com> It appears that the quadra 700 I just received from ebay has no rom simm. Does anyone know where I can get one, other than waiting an unknown amount of time for ebay to produce one? thanks. brian From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 9 21:14:19 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090309190914.P97068@shell.lmi.net> > You know, > Them: "I need to copy this floppy disk. > "Me: "What kind of diskette is it?" > Them: "Apple 2 Double sided, double density." > Me: "but, . . . Them: "That's what the label says." Them: "IBM PC Single sided single density." Them: "PDP-11 OS/2" From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Mar 9 21:38:32 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:38:32 -0400 Subject: A trip to the bay area Message-ID: <200903092238.32562.pat@computer-refuge.org> I'm going to be making a trip with a friend out to San Francisco, leaving this weekend for a few days, and am still looking for things to do. I've already figured out the obvious (visit CHM, some surplus places, some hiking), and was wondering if anyone had any ideas, or had a collection of big iron to show off while I'm there. :) Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From shumaker at att.net Mon Mar 9 22:42:29 2009 From: shumaker at att.net (s shumaker) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:42:29 -0400 Subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49B25118.7020208@gjcp.net> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> <49B25118.7020208@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <49B5E1A5.5020604@att.net> Gordon In reply to your question, Detective Woodall sent me this: Basically, I want to show newer officers the advancements from long ago to todays storage and operating media. I have a collection of various USB devices, hard disks (old and new) and various storage media going back through floppies, syquest disks, zip, old RLL interface drives, old 8 inch floppies, mainframe reels, and such and continue back showing how we have advanced to todays solid state drives with no moving parts. One of the pieces I use is my first "portable" computer. It is an old Kaypro green screen that still works. Folks get a kick out of that. It is basically a show and tell presentation. As part of it, I also talk about and show them ways of secreting data in hidden USB devices and have a collection of "unique" USB drives and teach them things to watch for when at an initial scene. It is an entry level training session intended more to get them interested in our field. Charles Woodall Detective Ofc tel# 912-876-4555 Direct tel# 912-408-3110 Fax# 912-876-0797 s shumaker Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > s shumaker wrote: >> The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: >> A law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a >> sample of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media >> for a law enforcement forensics class that he teaches. > > That sounds interesting. Can you get him to tell us a bit more about > that? > > Gordon > From rtellason at verizon.net Tue Mar 10 01:10:14 2009 From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:10:14 -0500 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903100210.14627.rtellason@verizon.net> > Opening the cartridge revealed the problem. The battery (a solder-tab style > CR2032) was actually good, but the positive terminal 'tab' had come off. > The spot-welds just let go. It must have been poorly made, and then got > dropped at some point. I don't have a replacement battery with solder tabs, > nor do I have a way to get one quickly. But, this seems simple enough, I'll > just solder the tab back on. I've *never* thought this to be a good idea. I will either get one with the tabs on it, or put a holder in there, or make some other arrangement... Lots of the musical gear I used to work on for a living had such batteries in it. And they needed to be replaced after a while. I'd usually put a holder in there, if at all possible, and get some happier customers in the process. :-) -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Tue Mar 10 01:40:44 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:40:44 -0700 Subject: 3B2 install tape woes (or: Wangtek 5125ES docs/jumper info) Message-ID: <49B60B6C.9000108@mail.msu.edu> Hi all-- Had a random desire to get my 3B2/600G running again over the weekend (this machine was the first computer I ever used UNIX on, for better or for worse...) after finding a working 300MB CDC Wren SCSI drive for it. (The UNIX install media for this machine only supports a very limited selection of drives -- it's possible to get the machine booting from an unsupported drive, but it requires having a running UNIX on a supported drive first, as far as I know.) Unfortunately, disaster struck halfway through the installation -- the tape drive's roller turned to mush. I checked it out before running the install and it seemed fine -- it was a solid rubber wheel -- but I guess something about actually running it caused it to break down. I managed to fix the roller, but the tape got goo all over it and despite my best efforts at cleaning it, that section of tape is unreadable so I can't reinstall. Fortunately, I have backups of the UNIX install tape files on my PC (several versions thereof, in fact)-- so you'd think it'd be a simple matter of attaching the tape drive to the PC and dd'ing over the files... but I'm not having any luck on any of the machines I've tried. I can only manage to copy over one file; attempting to write subsequent files fails. I have a failing drive w/a partial UNIX install for the 3b2 that boots about half the time, so I tried to do the same from the 3B2 w/this drive installed and it has the same problem writing >1 file, so it looks to be an issue with the drive and not the controller/OS. The drive is a Wangtek 5125ES, a 125MB (or 120MB, if you believe AT&Ts docs) drive. The error I get on from my Linux PC: dd: writing /dev/nst0: Input/output error st0: Current: sense key: Medium error Additional sense: Filemark detected Info fld=0x1 st0: Error on write filemark (I've of course tried different tapes, with the same result.) This is of course the only drive I have that's capable of writing tapes in this format, and of course the 3B2 isn't happy with any other tape drive I have... Anyone have any jumper settings for this drive? Anyone experienced this problem? Thanks, Josh From bqt at softjar.se Mon Mar 9 03:15:56 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:15:56 +0100 Subject: Wow! RP06 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <200903090808.n2987qGM068532@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903090808.n2987qGM068532@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <49B4D03C.7090103@softjar.se> Pontus wrote: > Tobias Russell wrote: >> > Yep, but I would make the space. Alas though the logistics of getting it >> > across the Atlantic are too great so I'll have to keep dreaming of such >> > things. >> > >> > Out of interest any fellow DEC collectors got an RP series disk on any >> > of their machines? The last ones I saw was about 20 years ago on an >> > 11/40. >> > >> > Toby >> > > > The local computer club has RP06 and RP07 that was connected to a > DECsystem-20, but they have not been running for many years. Actually, two RP06 and one RP07 ran on Magica (one of our 11/70) a little more than 10 years ago. AIDA (2060) ran with one RP07 and three RP06 until 19 years ago. CARMEN (2060) ran with one RP07 and one RP06 until 15 years ago. All the hardware is still around, but only the 11/70 sees some action these days, and then with RA90 disks (as you know ;-) ). I would think that the disk drives and packs are still fine, but we should probably be a bit careful when/if starting them up. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From leaknoil at comcast.net Mon Mar 9 11:41:45 2009 From: leaknoil at comcast.net (Pete) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:41:45 -0700 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: References: <49B361B7.2070101@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <49B546C9.1020301@comcast.net> These are different times though. It is very hard to sell vintage gear on ebay right now and the auctions all end lower then they did 6 months ago and way lower then a year ago. Collectibles go in cycles as well and really thats what this vintage gear is. Is it just the economy or is the little blip of interest in vintage computer collecting subsiding ? Who knows. Probably best to just stuff your prized computers back in the closet for another year or two till this blows over. Perhaps its the time to think about buying if you are one of the rare people that have 'extra' cash anymore for things like hobbies and collecting. Dan Gahlinger wrote: > has anyone read the auction and seen the "Buy It Now" ? > no? > > the reserve is normally the same (or close), > > buy it now for $5K ! > > so whoever said $1k-$2k, its not going to go for that. > the guy obviously thinks it's worth a lot more. > > I once saw a Sun server (worth at most $1500) go for over $5000 > on fleabay... > > > From jlobocki at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 14:49:34 2009 From: jlobocki at gmail.com (joe lobocki) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:49:34 -0500 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ah, the SNES cartridge battery conundrum! I didnt bother trying to solder it, I went on ebay and bought some 2032 coin cell holders, the same thing that your newer motherboards use for the cmos battery, and soldered them onto the board (may take a bit of effort as the tabs and holes on the board dont agree, may take some jumpering) I had to jumper one, and hot glued it to the case, same with the golden zelda cartridge for NES. then, the next time your battery dies in the next, oh, 10-20 years, you can just pop it out and replace it with a new one (given that 2032's still exist that far away, yes, I've thought about it) On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Mr Ian Primus wrote: > > Well, I did something mildly stupid recently, and I did it even though I > _knew_ the dangers. Some people might not know these dangers (or think about > them), so I figured I'd post a word of warning, since this is bound to come > up in classic computing. > > So, I was recently givin a copy of "Mario All Stars" for the Super > Nintendo. It played, but the save game feature doesn't work. These > cartridges use a battery-backed SRAM chip to store save games. So, my > assumption was that the battery was simply dead. > > Opening the cartridge revealed the problem. The battery (a solder-tab style > CR2032) was actually good, but the positive terminal 'tab' had come off. The > spot-welds just let go. It must have been poorly made, and then got dropped > at some point. I don't have a replacement battery with solder tabs, nor do I > have a way to get one quickly. But, this seems simple enough, I'll just > solder the tab back on. > > Now, I've soldered to coin batteries before and never had a problem. The > trick is to rough up the surface of the battery so the solder can stick, and > work quickly to avoid damaging the battery. Well, this battery wasn't having > any of that. The solder simply would not flow. It was then that I thought "I > can't heat a lithium battery too much - it might explode!". So I donned my > full face mask and got back to work. > > More attempts to get the solder to stick were failing. I tried piling on > more solder, so that the flux might have a chance to get it to flow. It > looked like it was just about to stick and.... PFOOOF!! > > Yes. Lithium batteries _do_ explode when heated too much. > > The battery exploded sending bits of black crud and molten solder (that > never stuck to the battery) everywhere. It suprised the hell out of me, > that's for sure. I heard a little *plink* as the top cover of the battery > landed behind me. I just stared at the bottom of the battery on the bench > for a minute, startled. I took off the face mask and went to get the vacuum > cleaner to clean up the mess. > > After cleaning up the debris and finding the battery tab and the battery > cover, I was trying to figure out how to replace this battery - and if I > should try soldering to another cell (more quickly, this time). I then > looked over at my face mask on the table. It was covered with solder > spashes, and quite a lot of it too (remember, I was trying to get the flux > to help the solder flow). Had I not been wearing that mask, I would have > gotten all sorts of crud in my eyes. > > I've always worn this mask when drilling, dremeling, using the table saw, > and yes, when soldering to batteries. This is the first time one has > actually exploded though. Yeah, it was my fault, I heated it too much - I > should have known better. But it's easy to get frustrated and forget. But > never forget to put on safety equipment when working with stuff like this. > Givin the choice, I'd always rather have a piece of impact-resistant > polycarbonate between me and flying shards of hot metal. > > > -Ian > From pontus at Update.UU.SE Tue Mar 10 03:45:16 2009 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:45:16 +0100 Subject: [FS] IBM 5028 Message-ID: <20090310084515.GA1892@Update.UU.SE> Hi. There is a guy selling an odd ASR-33 called the "IBM 5028 Operator Station". There was an ebay auction: #190289859981 But it didn't sell. If anyone is interested, the guys email is in the second of the two (short) threads about it here: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=14491 http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=14643 Cheers, Pontus. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Mar 10 04:47:40 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:47:40 +0000 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <20090309190914.P97068@shell.lmi.net> References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> <20090309190914.P97068@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B6373C.5080400@gjcp.net> Fred Cisin wrote: >> You know, >> Them: "I need to copy this floppy disk. >> "Me: "What kind of diskette is it?" >> Them: "Apple 2 Double sided, double density." >> Me: "but, . . . > Them: "That's what the label says." > > > > Them: "IBM PC Single sided single density." > > > Them: "PDP-11 OS/2" You're a bad man. Gordon From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Mar 10 04:50:29 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:50:29 +0000 Subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ? In-Reply-To: <49B5E1A5.5020604@att.net> References: <01C99826.DBE0ECE0@host-208-72-122-179.dyn.295.ca> <49AF1E91.5010002@att.net> <49B25118.7020208@gjcp.net> <49B5E1A5.5020604@att.net> Message-ID: <49B637E5.8070303@gjcp.net> s shumaker wrote: > Gordon > > In reply to your question, Detective Woodall sent me this: > > Basically, I want to show newer officers the advancements from long ago > to todays storage and operating media. > > I have a collection of various USB devices, hard disks (old and new) and > various storage media going back through floppies, syquest disks, zip, > old RLL interface drives, old 8 inch floppies, mainframe reels, and such > and continue back showing how we have advanced to todays solid state > drives with no moving parts. One of the pieces I use is my first > "portable" computer. It is an old Kaypro green screen that still works. > Folks get a kick out of that. > > It is basically a show and tell presentation. As part of it, I also > talk about and show them ways of secreting data in hidden USB devices > and have a collection of "unique" USB drives and teach them things to > watch for when at an initial scene. > > It is an entry level training session intended more to get them > interested in our field. > > Charles Woodall Detective Ofc tel# 912-876-4555 Direct tel# 912-408-3110 > Fax# 912-876-0797 > > > s shumaker Thanks for that. Sounds pretty good, I wish it wasn't halfway round the planet from me ;-) Gordon From classiccmp at philpem.me.uk Tue Mar 10 06:13:07 2009 From: classiccmp at philpem.me.uk (Philip Pemberton) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:13:07 +0000 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> <20090309180446.P97068@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B64B43.9050703@philpem.me.uk> r.stricklin wrote: > Technically correct, yet profoundly unhelpful. > > I like it. Like the old joke.... Microsoft Helicopter Joke Author Unknown WHERE AM I? A helicopter was flying around above Seattle yesterday when an electrical malfunction disabled all of the aircraft's electronic navigation and communication equipment. Due to the clouds and haze the pilot could not determine his position or course to steer to the airport. The pilot saw a tall building, flew toward it, circled, drew a handwritten sign and held it in the helicopter's window. The sign said "WHERE AM I ?" in large letters. People in the tall building quickly responded to the aircraft, drew a large sign and held it in a building window. Their sign said, "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER." The pilot smiled, waved, looked at his map and determine the course to steer to SEATAC (Seattle/Tacoma) airport and landed safely. After they were on the ground, the co-pilot asked the pilot how the "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER" sign helped determine their position. The pilot responded, "I knew that had to be the MICROSOFT building because they gave me a technically correct but completely useless answer." :) -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ From silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com Tue Mar 10 08:53:35 2009 From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com (silvercreekvalley) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 06:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for IBM XT or 8086 based clone. Message-ID: <952247.82795.qm@web56206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi, Anyone have a IBM XT or clone machine for sale? It needs to be an 8086/V20 or V30 processor and in a working state and preferably in the U.K. Contact me off list if anything available. Thanks Ian. From ploopster at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 09:04:25 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:04:25 -0400 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: References: <200903082029.n28KSxsW034228@keith.ezwind.net>, <49B5344A.20162.E2127C2@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> <49B5481E.23696.E6E6060@cclist.sydex.com> <20090309180446.P97068@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49B67369.7070308@gmail.com> r.stricklin wrote: >>> You know, >>> Them: "I need to copy this floppy disk. >>> "Me: "What kind of diskette is it?" >> >> "Verbatim." >> "Floppy." >> "Magnetic." >> "Computer." >> "System." >> "Backup." >> "Data." >> "Accounting." >> "Word Processing." > > > Technically correct, yet profoundly unhelpful. > > I like it. "What kind of floppy is it?" "It's lovely!" Peace... Sridhar From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue Mar 10 09:46:00 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:46:00 -0700 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <200903100210.14627.rtellason@verizon.net> References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200903100210.14627.rtellason@verizon.net> Message-ID: > From: rtellason at verizon.net ---snip--- > > I've *never* thought this to be a good idea. I will either get one with the > tabs on it, or put a holder in there, or make some other arrangement... > > Lots of the musical gear I used to work on for a living had such batteries in > it. And they needed to be replaced after a while. I'd usually put a holder > in there, if at all possible, and get some happier customers in the > process. :-) > Hi I've always thought it would be useful to have a small spot welder. I've come on this type of problem with other things that required electric contact but wouldn't solder. I've been thinking that I should start looking for a bunch of large low voltage capacitors. Tie a bunch together and make a small welder from it. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 10 11:58:05 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:58:05 -0800 Subject: PSU: 5, 12, 24 VDC In-Reply-To: <001301c9a191$28fc19f0$7af44dd0$@com> References: <001301c9a191$28fc19f0$7af44dd0$@com> Message-ID: <49B62B9D.19247.11E72C0D@cclist.sydex.com> Lorne, I've got some old Power One siwtchers tucked away. I'll see if I can find one that's in working shape. They are, IIRC, +24, +12 and +5 (maybe also -5). The problem with using a PC XT power supply is that the current requirement for the +24 is substantial. Cheers, Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 10 11:59:27 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:59:27 -0800 Subject: PSU: 5, 12, 24 VDC In-Reply-To: <001301c9a191$28fc19f0$7af44dd0$@com> References: <001301c9a191$28fc19f0$7af44dd0$@com> Message-ID: <49B62BEF.1024.11E86E22@cclist.sydex.com> Forgot to mention that I've also got a +24v SMPSU, so that's a bailout just in case one of the P1's don't work. Cheers, Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 10 12:13:30 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:13:30 -0800 Subject: PSU: 5, 12, 24 VDC In-Reply-To: <49B62B9D.19247.11E72C0D@cclist.sydex.com> References: <001301c9a191$28fc19f0$7af44dd0$@com>, <49B62B9D.19247.11E72C0D@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <49B62F3A.20043.11F540E9@cclist.sydex.com> I apologize for the misdirected posts about the PSUs. I don't know how they hit the list. Probably fumble fingers on my part. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Tue Mar 10 11:55:44 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:55:44 -0800 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: <49B62B10.19683.11E5068D@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Mar 2009 at 14:49, joe lobocki wrote: > I went on ebay and bought some 2032 coin cell holders, the same thing > that your newer motherboards use for the cmos battery,... One of the few things worth salvaging from a junked modern PC motherboard. --Chuck From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 12:34:37 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:34:37 -0400 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <49B62B10.19683.11E5068D@cclist.sydex.com> References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49B62B10.19683.11E5068D@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 9 Mar 2009 at 14:49, joe lobocki wrote: > >> I went on ebay and bought some 2032 coin cell holders, the same thing >> that your newer motherboards use for the cmos battery,... > > One of the few things worth salvaging from a junked modern PC > motherboard. Yep. There are a few things I pull before discarding - that's one of them. -ethan From trag at io.com Tue Mar 10 13:26:50 2009 From: trag at io.com (Jeff Walther) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:26:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <200903101800.n2AI0RTS092881@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903101800.n2AI0RTS092881@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <7b5b84db30a770cf7ce5e20bc232d282.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com> > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:06:08 -0500 > From: Brian Lanning > > It appears that the quadra 700 I just received from ebay has no rom > simm. Does anyone know where I can get one, other than waiting an > unknown amount of time for ebay to produce one? thanks. Every Macintosh from the II forward (well, probably not the Classic) was built with a ROM socket. However, the vast majority of them have ROM chips soldered to the board, and the socket is only there for updates which were never deemed worthwhile. Unless you have an incredibly rare Q700, there are ROM chips soldered to the board. They'll have a part number something like 343S0xxx or 341S0xxx and there will probably be four of them (each with its own, probably sequential, number), although there might only be two if they used 16 bit wide chips. I'm not sure if the Q700 is recent enough, but at some point they moved to 44 pin PSOPs for almost all their soldered down ROMs. Symptom of a missing ROM would be that the machine powers up just fine and all the drives spin up, lights come on, but there is no start-up bong and never any video from the monitor output. If the machine fails to power up all-together, then you have a different issue than lack of ROM. If you have a power supply failure, the power supplies from the IIcx, IIci, IIvi, IIvx, Q700, Centris 650, Q650, and PowerMac 7100 will work in the Q700. It was a long-lived power supply model. Jeff Walther From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 13:33:01 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:33:01 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <7b5b84db30a770cf7ce5e20bc232d282.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com> References: <200903101800.n2AI0RTS092881@dewey.classiccmp.org> <7b5b84db30a770cf7ce5e20bc232d282.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Jeff Walther wrote: > Every Macintosh from the II forward (well, probably not the Classic) was > built with a ROM socket. ? However, the vast majority of them have ROM > chips soldered to the board, and the socket is only there for updates > which were never deemed worthwhile. > > Unless you have an incredibly rare Q700, there are ROM chips soldered to > the board. ? They'll have a part number something like 343S0xxx or > 341S0xxx and there will probably be four of them (each with its own, > probably sequential, number), although there might only be two if they > used 16 bit wide chips. ?I'm not sure if the Q700 is recent enough, but at > some point they moved to 44 pin PSOPs for almost all their soldered down > ROMs. > > Symptom of a missing ROM would be that the machine powers up just fine and > all the drives spin up, lights come on, but there is no start-up bong and > never any video from the monitor output. ? If the machine fails to power > up all-together, then you have a different issue than lack of ROM. > > If you have a power supply failure, the power supplies from the IIcx, > IIci, IIvi, IIvx, Q700, Centris 650, Q650, and PowerMac 7100 will work in > the Q700. ?It was a long-lived power supply model. Thanks for the info. Maybe I should just try to turn it on. :-) What's up with the two different types of simm socket for ram? The machine has 4 simms in the smaller (30 pin?) sockets and none in the larger (72-pin?) sockets. Can I put memory in both of them, is it one or the other? brian From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Mar 10 13:58:45 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com> from Brian Lanning at "Mar 10, 9 01:33:01 pm" Message-ID: <200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> > Thanks for the info. Maybe I should just try to turn it on. :-) > > What's up with the two different types of simm socket for ram? The > machine has 4 simms in the smaller (30 pin?) sockets and none in the > larger (72-pin?) sockets. Can I put memory in both of them, is it one > or the other? One (30-pin) is regular RAM, the other is video RAM. There is already 512K on the motherboard, but you can add more (optional). They should be actually 68-pin SIMMs (welovemacs has the part): http://www.welovemacs.com/apple-memory-performa-performa-466-mac-256k-vram-simm.html -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- This product moves when used. -- Actual label, children's scooter ---------- From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 14:07:31 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:07:31 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com> <200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > One (30-pin) is regular RAM, the other is video RAM. There is already 512K > on the motherboard, but you can add more (optional). They should be actually > 68-pin SIMMs (welovemacs has the part): > > ? ? ? ?http://www.welovemacs.com/apple-memory-performa-performa-466-mac-256k-vram-simm.html Thanks, I'll be picking those up. :-) brian From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 10 14:43:48 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:43:48 -0400 Subject: macintosh rom simms References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com><200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> <6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lanning" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:07 PM Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Cameron Kaiser > wrote: >> One (30-pin) is regular RAM, the other is video RAM. There is already >> 512K >> on the motherboard, but you can add more (optional). They should be >> actually >> 68-pin SIMMs (welovemacs has the part): >> >> http://www.welovemacs.com/apple-memory-performa-performa-466-mac-256k-vram-simm.html > > Thanks, I'll be picking those up. :-) > > brian > Make sure those VRAM SIMMs are 80ns, the 100ns variety are only good with the old 030 based LC machines, Quadras need faster VRAM. You also need to install them in pairs or four at a time I believe (depending on the machine). TZ From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 14:50:13 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:50:13 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com> <200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> <6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > Make sure those VRAM SIMMs are 80ns, the 100ns variety are only good with > the old 030 based LC machines, Quadras need faster VRAM. You also need to > install them in pairs or four at a time I believe (depending on the > machine). The we love macs page says there's 6 slots for a total of 2megs of video memory. I don't remember there being that many sockets, but it was a quick glance. I'll survey the situation a little more closely when i get home. Thanks for the info. brian From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 10 15:12:00 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:12:00 -0400 Subject: macintosh rom simms References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com><200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com><6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lanning" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:50 PM Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: >> Make sure those VRAM SIMMs are 80ns, the 100ns variety are only good with >> the old 030 based LC machines, Quadras need faster VRAM. You also need to >> install them in pairs or four at a time I believe (depending on the >> machine). > > The we love macs page says there's 6 slots for a total of 2megs of > video memory. I don't remember there being that many sockets, but it > was a quick glance. I'll survey the situation a little more closely > when i get home. Thanks for the info. > > brian Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few models I don't have. Q950's have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I think (max 1MB). VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties. From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 15:17:37 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:17:37 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game> References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com> <200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> <6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com> <32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few models I don't have. Q950's > have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I > think (max 1MB). > > VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties. Can Q700s take a separate nubus video board? Maybe the money from the vram would be better spent on that. I know some of the II series machines would get a performance boost form that sort of thing also. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 10 15:30:56 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:30:56 -0400 Subject: macintosh rom simms References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com><200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com><6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com><6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com><32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game> <6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02E4516922084974AE705E91264FEDC6@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lanning" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: >> Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few models I don't have. Q950's >> have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I >> think (max 1MB). >> >> VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties. > > Can Q700s take a separate nubus video board? Maybe the money from the > vram would be better spent on that. I know some of the II series > machines would get a performance boost form that sort of thing also. A good Nubus video card will get you more features and probably more color depth, but it still goes through the Nubus BUS which is kind of slow. Built in video on the Quadra's isn't that bad. Once you get into the Nubus PPC the PDS (processor direct slot) video cards are faster then any Nubus based one just because of bandwidth. The Mac II series that has built in video is crippled (IIci, IIsi, etc), the best Mac IIs (II, IIx, IIfx have no built in video). You can probably fine some VRAM cheaper then that website sells it for, try LEMswap on google groups and see what comes up. I like the Supermac Thunder/ 24 Nubus cards for Quadras, they are fast and have 3MB of VRAM for 24 bit color at 1024x768. You only have 2 slots on the Q700 for Nubus cards (which is why I never bothered to get one), but for most people that is plenty. From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Mar 10 15:31:54 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com> from Brian Lanning at "Mar 10, 9 03:17:37 pm" Message-ID: <200903102031.n2AKVs9k009162@floodgap.com> > > Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few models I don't have. Q950's > > have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I > > think (max 1MB). > > > > VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties. > > Can Q700s take a separate nubus video board? Absolutely. I was actually about to suggest that to you. However, make sure that you get a card that will actually give you a benefit. For example, I like to use a 8*24*GC as my preferred video card, but this would actually be a *bad* choice with the Q700 as the GC accelerator CDEV seems to freak out on '040s. Without the CDEV, you only get 8*24 performance (and internal video would actually be faster). A Radius card would go nicely in a unit like this, though. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- No matter how cynical I get, I can't keep up. -- Lily Tomlin --------------- From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 15:44:45 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:44:45 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <02E4516922084974AE705E91264FEDC6@game> References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com> <200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com> <6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com> <6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com> <32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game> <6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com> <02E4516922084974AE705E91264FEDC6@game> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903101344i17a2eec1j5f5219f1cb6b1fd4@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > A good Nubus video card will get you more features and probably more color > depth, but it still goes through the Nubus BUS which is kind of slow. Built > in video on the Quadra's isn't that bad. Once you get into the Nubus PPC the > PDS (processor direct slot) video cards are faster then any Nubus based one > just because of bandwidth. The Mac II series that has built in video is > crippled (IIci, IIsi, etc), the best Mac IIs (II, IIx, IIfx have no built in > video). > > You can probably fine some VRAM cheaper then that website sells it for, try > LEMswap on google groups and see what comes up. I like the Supermac Thunder/ > 24 Nubus cards for Quadras, they are fast and have 3MB of VRAM for 24 bit > color at 1024x768. > > You only have 2 slots on the Q700 for Nubus cards (which is why I never > bothered to get one), but for most people that is plenty. It already has scsi and ehternet so I'm not sure what else I would put in there unless I found something unique or interesting. I still need to track down that goofy ethernet dongle that gives you an rj-45. From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 15:49:18 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:49:18 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <200903102031.n2AKVs9k009162@floodgap.com> References: <6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com> <200903102031.n2AKVs9k009162@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903101349h6e446300v6bdbb99124dc3396@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Absolutely. I was actually about to suggest that to you. However, make sure > that you get a card that will actually give you a benefit. For example, I > like to use a 8*24*GC as my preferred video card, but this would actually be a > *bad* choice with the Q700 as the GC accelerator CDEV seems to freak out on > '040s. Without the CDEV, you only get 8*24 performance (and internal video > would actually be faster). > > A Radius card would go nicely in a unit like this, though. ok, so I'll start shopping for that. I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the video cards. They all look the same to me although I'm sure some are better than others. I have a iifx also which has two video cards in it. The video cards look like they're from apple and seem to be working together to improve performance. But again, I'm not sure if those two together are better or worse than one newer video card. brian From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 10 16:18:16 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:18:16 -0400 Subject: macintosh rom simms References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com><200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com><6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com><6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com><32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game><6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com><02E4516922084974AE705E91264FEDC6@game> <6dbe3c380903101344i17a2eec1j5f5219f1cb6b1fd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F264104DA034BE4B9F48B0BCDDBBE52@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lanning" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms > It already has scsi and ehternet so I'm not sure what else I would put > in there unless I found something unique or interesting. > > I still need to track down that goofy ethernet dongle that gives you an > rj-45. Those dongles should be easy and cheap to get. I collect Nubus cards, must have 70+ by now so I like machines that I can stick a few cards in. Mostly I stuff machines with video capture cards, DSP cards, sound cards, 10/100 ethernet, 386/486 PC cards, fast SCSI cards, etc. That is probably why I love the big Mac II machines and the Q950's. From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Mar 10 16:21:36 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903101349h6e446300v6bdbb99124dc3396@mail.gmail.com> from Brian Lanning at "Mar 10, 9 03:49:18 pm" Message-ID: <200903102121.n2ALLadm019636@floodgap.com> > > A Radius card would go nicely in a unit like this, though. > > ok, so I'll start shopping for that. > > I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the video cards. > They all look the same to me although I'm sure some are better than > others. If you find some specifics, post them to the list and we'll tell you yes or no. As you can see there is no shortage of classic Mac knowledge :) > I have a iifx also which has two video cards in it. The video cards > look like they're from apple and seem to be working together to > improve performance. But again, I'm not sure if those two together > are better or worse than one newer video card. The IIfx's "banner" video card was, ironically, the 8*24*GC, which is a card you should *not* use with the Q700 (see my last E-mail for why). You can use certain NuBus cards to speed up other NuBus cards. Cards that support slave NuBus block transfers can be sped up by NuBus cards that support bus mastering. The GC, again, is one of these and can speed up its slower cousins like the 4*8 and straight 8*24. I think some Radius and Supermac cards can also. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- "I think you underestimate the stupidness." -------------------------------- From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 10 16:30:51 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:30:51 -0400 Subject: macintosh rom simms References: <200903102121.n2ALLadm019636@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <624168DAC08A448B90EC856DAC8CDFC0@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:21 PM Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms > The IIfx's "banner" video card was, ironically, the 8*24*GC, which is a > card > you should *not* use with the Q700 (see my last E-mail for why). > > You can use certain NuBus cards to speed up other NuBus cards. Cards that > support slave NuBus block transfers can be sped up by NuBus cards that > support > bus mastering. The GC, again, is one of these and can speed up its slower > cousins like the 4*8 and straight 8*24. I think some Radius and Supermac > cards can also. > > -- > ------------------------------------ personal: > http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * > ckaiser at floodgap.com > -- "I think you underestimate the > stupidness." -------------------------------- Rasterops also made a seperate card that sped up block transfers for other cards and also RAM slots onboard. http://picasaweb.google.com/teozenios/NubusCards#5074342871496358706 Those 2 big chips to the right are DSPs. These were meant for 030 based machines since all video cards in the Quadra had video acceleration built in. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 10 17:00:10 2009 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:00:10 -0700 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903091906r739f2bdeh9917fb027e84c098@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dbe3c380903091906r739f2bdeh9917fb027e84c098@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Don't need a simm in the rom simm slot on a quadra 700 for it to work, IIRC. However if the PRAM battery is dead or missing it most likely isn't going to fire up -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Lanning Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 7:06 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: macintosh rom simms It appears that the quadra 700 I just received from ebay has no rom simm. Does anyone know where I can get one, other than waiting an unknown amount of time for ebay to produce one? thanks. brian From bear at typewritten.org Tue Mar 10 20:58:31 2009 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:58:31 -0700 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <4F264104DA034BE4B9F48B0BCDDBBE52@game> References: <6dbe3c380903101133t1425846clfa14ea65f285cf97@mail.gmail.com><200903101858.n2AIwjo6017236@floodgap.com><6dbe3c380903101207y214fd1f1o3f703cfe969e846a@mail.gmail.com><6dbe3c380903101250s4c1625bgd0b95c4b050b3290@mail.gmail.com><32B59C1798BD4271934BB07292610423@game><6dbe3c380903101317t607c2205n58e7ea9a26717289@mail.gmail.com><02E4516922084974AE705E91264FEDC6@game> <6dbe3c380903101344i17a2eec1j5f5219f1cb6b1fd4@mail.gmail.com> <4F264104DA034BE4B9F48B0BCDDBBE52@game> Message-ID: <15CD6E32-77B2-4336-93CF-940DF310F655@typewritten.org> On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > I collect Nubus cards, must have 70+ by now Which reminds me... I am looking for one or two Daystar Powercard RAM cards. These are Nubus cards with 16x 30-pin SIMM slots on, which can be used by the Mac OS as RAM disk. Anybody with one to spare, please drop me a line? Also, keep it in the back of your memory in case you come across one sometime. Thanks! ok bear From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 22:44:59 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:44:59 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <624168DAC08A448B90EC856DAC8CDFC0@game> References: <200903102121.n2ALLadm019636@floodgap.com> <624168DAC08A448B90EC856DAC8CDFC0@game> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive. The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4 bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video. It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like everyone said. :-) brian From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Mar 10 22:54:00 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> from Brian Lanning at "Mar 10, 9 10:44:59 pm" Message-ID: <200903110354.n2B3s0L6019108@floodgap.com> > So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive. > The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not > much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4 > bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video. > > It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like > everyone said. :-) Q700s are nice little units. You'll enjoy it. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 10 23:15:52 2009 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:15:52 -0700 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <200903102121.n2ALLadm019636@floodgap.com><624168DAC08A448B90EC856DAC8CDFC0@game> <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5DC430A79B044C568013ED5D0075A359@liberator> 1152x874 :) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Lanning Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:45 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive. The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4 bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video. It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like everyone said. :-) brian From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 10 23:51:48 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:51:48 -0500 Subject: Free for cost of posting q-bus camac interface In-Reply-To: References: <21477E627DC54630930C49B81BE47E9A@xp1800> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090310235004.03b3d930@mail.threedee.com> At 09:41 AM 3/9/2009, Ethan Dicks wrote: >Wow... CAMAC. I've only ever seen that in one place - AMANDA (the >precursor project to IceCube). >I've never seen CAMAC outside of particle physics. I'm curious where >that MicroVAX has been. Maybe it was a UW-Madison thing. I worked with them on an early LIDAR for a meteorology prof who liked to go to the Pole, too. Yup, they had A/D converters measuring the returned photons. - John From gtn at mind-to-mind.com Wed Mar 11 00:21:30 2009 From: gtn at mind-to-mind.com (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 01:21:30 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> Someone I know has a PDP 11/44 available.. might end up on EBay. Apparently 2 racks pulled out in working condition, including the following cards. m-7090 m 7094 m-7093 m 8743 m 8743 m 7098 m 7097 m 7096 m 902 m 7800 m 7900 m 7902 m 7903 m 7258 He's looking for $750 but I'm not sure I'll have the space. What do you think? From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 11 01:38:07 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:38:07 -0800 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> Message-ID: At 1:21 AM -0400 3/11/09, Gavin Thomas Nicol wrote: >Someone I know has a PDP 11/44 available.. might end up on EBay. >Apparently 2 racks pulled out in working condition, including the >following cards. > >m-7090 m 7094 m-7093 m 8743 m 8743 m 7098 m 7097 >m 7096 m 902 m 7800 m 7900 m 7902 m 7903 m 7258 > >He's looking for $750 but I'm not sure I'll have the space. What do you think? I think he wants way to much. I paid $100 for mine about 11 years ago, though I did have to come up with RAM for it. BTW, the real value is in the power supply. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Wed Mar 11 01:49:34 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:49:34 +0100 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> Message-ID: > From: gtn at mind-to-mind.com > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 01:21:30 -0400 > CC: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: PDP 11/44 > > Someone I know has a PDP 11/44 available.. might end up on EBay. > Apparently 2 racks pulled out in working condition, including the > following cards. > > m-7090 m 7094 m-7093 m 8743 m 8743 m 7098 m 7097 > m 7096 m 902 m 7800 m 7900 m 7902 m 7903 m 7258 > > He's looking for $750 but I'm not sure I'll have the space. What do > you think? Two words: too expensive! Three words: way too expensive. If the list of modules is all there is, the CPU is not complete! The basic boards of the 11/44 are: M7090, M7093 ... M7098. M7095 is missing! Further, the M7900, M7902 and M7903 are just a part of the RK611 interface, so if you have RK06 or RK07 you need to find the missing boards (m7901, M7904), else you have to remove that 9-slot backplane, as it is of no other use than functioning as RK611 controller. The M7258 is the LP11 controller. Again without a suitable printer to connect, this board is not of much use either. In the first rack is the 11/44, I assume. What's in the other rack? For $750 you get an incomplete 11/44, some boards of not much use (probably), and a simple (and slow) DL11 (M7800). I would not pay $750. my 2 ct :-) - Henk From eric2erica1962 at westnet.com.au Tue Mar 10 07:47:09 2009 From: eric2erica1962 at westnet.com.au (erica rawlings) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:47:09 +0900 Subject: Cashtrac.exe ??? Message-ID: <7252BF1E7C52415080A467D02EC1E4A4@rawlings> Dear sirs Yes I was with cashtrac but seems to have disappeared off the system Can anybody help me get it back Or Have they a disc I can borrow er From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Wed Mar 11 02:41:10 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:41:10 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? Message-ID: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Boy, am I full of questions lately. If there's a good guide for this, please point me to it... I now have in my possession an HP-1000F system I got in trade and a mostly empty HP-1000E system I've had for awhile but haven't done anything with, because, well, it's mostly empty. The 1000F (2117F) has the following installed: Front: DCPC slot - D.C.P.C board 111 - Memory Protect 112 - M.E.M. . . . 121 - 64K HSM 122 - 64K HSM 123 - MEM CNTLR (cabled to 122 & 121 on left-side connector via ribbon cable) Rear: 10 - F.E.M. 12 - BACI 14 - BUS I/O The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & mainboard and a single F.E.M. card in slot 10. The F.E.M. is cabled to the main board via a ribbon cable (this ribbon cable is not present on the 1000F). I assume this machine isn't going to do much as it is. Is the above enough to get a minimal system running (i.e. to allow toggling in programs via the front panel and testing the system?) Is there anything I need to know about how the cards need to be configured/cabled together? My understanding is that the F-series has some kind of floating-point support, but it's also my understanding that such support was provided via an external expansion, which I do not have. Since I don't have this expansion, will the 1000F work at all, or should I move the cards I have to the E? (Minus the F.E.M., I assume...) I probably won't have time to play with this right away, but I'm curious to know what else I'll need to get one of these machines going... Thanks, Josh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Mar 11 03:30:21 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:30:21 +0100 Subject: Soldering to batteries - a word of warning... In-Reply-To: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <716093.74917.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090311093021.dd12c847.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 07:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Mr Ian Primus wrote: > The trick is to rough up the surface of the battery so the solder can > stick, and work quickly to avoid damaging the battery. The best tool to rough up the surface is a glass fibre brush. > Well, this battery wasn't having any of that. The solder simply would > not flow. I soldered wires to 2032 too. (Sun NVRAM...) Sometimes the solder didn't stick to the surface. If that happend I stoped and got an other 2032 out of my pats bin. Once I saw a AA sized Lithium battery explode. We had to use a gripper to pull the resiues from the battery and surrounding electronic components out of the table and the wall. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Mar 11 03:50:27 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:50:27 +0100 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <200903102121.n2ALLadm019636@floodgap.com> <624168DAC08A448B90EC856DAC8CDFC0@game> <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090311095027.aa8c1a5e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:44:59 -0500 Brian Lanning wrote: > the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. This is not wired. Most likely it is 1152x864. 1152 * 864 = 995328 This is about 1 MegaPixel. Or the max. resolution hat you can get with e.g. 1 MB VRAM and 8 bit color at a 3:4 aspect ratio. Sun used 1152x900. The old sun monitors where not overscan capable, so the aspect ratio was not exactely 3:4, hence 900 insted of 864. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Wed Mar 11 04:49:03 2009 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:49:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Josh Dersch wrote: > Front: > DCPC slot - D.C.P.C board > 111 - Memory Protect > 112 - M.E.M. > . > . > . > 121 - 64K HSM > 122 - 64K HSM > 123 - MEM CNTLR (cabled to 122 & 121 on left-side connector via > ribbon cable) This isn't much memory. > Rear: > 10 - F.E.M. > 12 - BACI > 14 - BUS I/O I'd put the BACI into slot 11 and the Bus I/O into 12 (avoid empty slots between cards). You need an HP terminal (e.g. a 2648A with cartridges) or an emulation which provides the fast binary load feature in order to boot from the terminal as you don't have anything else to boot from. And I recommend a TBG (time base generator). > The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & mainboard and a > single F.E.M. card in slot 10. The F.E.M. is cabled to the main board via a > ribbon cable (this ribbon cable is not present on the 1000F). I assume this > machine isn't going to do much as it is. Right, this machine would do nothing. > My understanding is that the F-series has some kind of floating-point > support, but it's also my understanding that such support was provided via an > external expansion, which I do not have. Since I don't have this expansion, > will the 1000F work at all, or should I move the cards I have to the E? > (Minus the F.E.M., I assume...) An F-series without FPP (floating-point processor) acts like an E-series. I guess that the microcode ROMs are on the FEM. BTW the FPP is connected to the front panel with a ribbon cable. > I probably won't have time to play with this right away, but I'm curious to > know what else I'll need to get one of these machines going... You could start getting more memory and a disk drive with controller (e.g. a 7905 with 13037 MAC controller, or a CS/80 HP-IB drive with the 12821 interface), as well as an HP terminal. Then you could play with RTE. Christian From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Wed Mar 11 06:53:09 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:53:09 +0100 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4007B0B6AE364706AE2FEC5759DCC5F8@xp1800> On www.hpmuseum.net and bitsavers you can find some info. There is emulation software from HP (MSDOS(Vectra) or 200-series)witch you use instead of a terminal at the hpmuseum site. There is also software to emulatie a CS80-drive (hpdrive and hpdir)under Windows at www.hp9845.net look at the projects section. -Rik > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Christian Corti > Verzonden: woensdag 11 maart 2009 10:49 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Onderwerp: Re: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series > E/(F?) system? > > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Josh Dersch wrote: > > Front: > > DCPC slot - D.C.P.C board > > 111 - Memory Protect > > 112 - M.E.M. > > . > > . > > . > > 121 - 64K HSM > > 122 - 64K HSM > > 123 - MEM CNTLR (cabled to 122 & 121 on > left-side connector via > > ribbon cable) > > This isn't much memory. > > > Rear: > > 10 - F.E.M. > > 12 - BACI > > 14 - BUS I/O > > I'd put the BACI into slot 11 and the Bus I/O into 12 (avoid > empty slots between cards). You need an HP terminal (e.g. a 2648A with > cartridges) or an emulation which provides the fast binary > load feature in order to boot from the terminal as you don't > have anything else to boot from. And I recommend a TBG (time > base generator). > > > The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & > mainboard and > > a single F.E.M. card in slot 10. The F.E.M. is cabled to the main > > board via a ribbon cable (this ribbon cable is not present on the > > 1000F). I assume this machine isn't going to do much as it is. > > Right, this machine would do nothing. > > > My understanding is that the F-series has some kind of > floating-point > > support, but it's also my understanding that such support > was provided > > via an external expansion, which I do not have. Since I don't have > > this expansion, will the 1000F work at all, or should I > move the cards I have to the E? > > (Minus the F.E.M., I assume...) > > An F-series without FPP (floating-point processor) acts like > an E-series. > I guess that the microcode ROMs are on the FEM. BTW the FPP > is connected to the front panel with a ribbon cable. > > > I probably won't have time to play with this right away, but I'm > > curious to know what else I'll need to get one of these > machines going... > > You could start getting more memory and a disk drive with > controller (e.g. > a 7905 with 13037 MAC controller, or a CS/80 HP-IB drive with > the 12821 interface), as well as an HP terminal. Then you > could play with RTE. > > Christian > From auringer at tds.net Wed Mar 11 09:41:37 2009 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 9:41:37 -0500 Subject: Paging Steve Stutman Message-ID: <20090311094137.AIFOQ.21376.root@webfep14> Hey Steve, I have sent you a couple of e-mails without a response. Please contact me. Jon From trag at io.com Wed Mar 11 11:24:42 2009 From: trag at io.com (Jeff Walther) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:24:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <200903110737.n2B7bjd7001970@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903110737.n2B7bjd7001970@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:44:45 -0500 > From: Brian Lanning > It already has scsi and ehternet so I'm not sure what else I would put > in there unless I found something unique or interesting. The built-in SCSI is unenhanced SCSI. That means that its maximum theoretical performance is 5 MB/s. It's okay, but can seem a trifle slow. The best SCSI NuBus card only goes up to Fast & Wide (20 MB/s theoretical maximum). There are no Ultra-SCSI nor IDE/ATA NuBus cards for the Mac. If the thing has an original hard drive in, you could probably get some speed boost just by installing a more modern SCSI drive with a faster media speed. As slow as the built-in SCSI was in older Macs, the hard drives of the day usually couldn't sling data even that fast. > I still need to track down that goofy ethernet dongle that gives you an > rj-45. The connector is called an AAUI (Apple AUI) so you need an AAUI to UTP transceiver. Of course, if you're hunting on Ebay, there's no telling what the seller will call it. There were also transceivers for thinnet and thicknet, so do not accidentally buy the wrong one. Those things were cheap to free a few years ago. They may have all made their way through the second-hand system to the point where they're not as easy to come by now. If you have a Goodwill Computer Works store in your area, you might check their cable bins. Ours used to be full of the transceivers. > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:49:18 -0500 > From: Brian Lanning > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser > wrote: >> A Radius card would go nicely in a unit like this, though. > > ok, so I'll start shopping for that. > > I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the video cards. > They all look the same to me although I'm sure some are better than > others. It's been a while since I checked, so my memory may be faulty, but I think that I remember that the built-in video on the Quadra 700 and 900/950 is faster than you're likely to get with a NuBus card. It's primarily a bandwidth issue. Telling the difference in NuBus video cards can be truly dizzying. The four main players were Raster Ops, Radius, SuperMac (not the later Umax owned clone maker), and E-Machines (not the much later PC maker). Around '94 SuperMac bought E-Machines. Not long after that Radius bought SuperMac. When they were being made, the NuBus video cards fell into two categories: consumer and professional. The late model consumer cards are good yeoman-like cards. The professional cards have some great QuickDraw acceleration on board. The fastest Mac NuBus video cards were the Radius Thunder IV GX series and the Villagetronic MacPicasso 340 (not the 320). I think Sonnet also sold the latter under another name. Raster Ops may have had a card in the same class, but I'm just not very familiar with the Raster Ops products. The Thunder IV GX series came in four models, 1152, 1360, 1600 and the Thunder 24/GT. The first three indicate the first number in the highest resolution of the card which supported 24 bit color. The latter, differently named card is just like the 1152, except it lacks the DSP daughter board. The IV GX models were about $3000 when new. The Thunder 24/GT was a bargain at just under $1000. All of these usually command a pretty high price if they come up for sale at all, but they are faster (in some functions) than a PowerMac PDS-based HPV card. They excel at tasks which are amenable to Quickdraw acceleration. They are still limited by NuBus' bandwidth and so are not so good at throwing frames up on the screen in quick succession. The late model consumer level cards include the Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24 series and the E-Machines Futura II series. Each of these contained three or four models which carried different amounts of VRAM. To truly muck things up, there was an earlier card called the Radius PrecisionColor 24 (no Pro) and the Futura (no II). The earlier cards were bigger and slower and less compatible. Again, Raster Ops probably had something too. SuperMac's last professional level card is often recommended by people and it's a good card by all accounts (I haven't tried one). The Futura II SX had a couple of optional daughter boards. One was a DSP coprocesser board, which isn't all that interesting these days. The other was an ethernet daughter board, which isn't especially enhancing in a Q700. The ethernet driver for the daughter board doesn't work with Open Transport and will freeze the machine at boot time if both the driver and Open Transport are loaded. The ethernet daughter board only works with Classic Networking. Okay, that's probably way more detail than you need, but how often do I get to dump this accumulation of now mostly useless knowledge out? Personally, I would just get the VRAM, unless you need support for larger displays for some reasons. Jeff Walther From cvisors at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 11:28:55 2009 From: cvisors at gmail.com (Ivy Gardiner) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:28:55 +1100 Subject: hams on classiccmp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > > probably lots.. I'm VK3IVY, love mucking around with satellites, and the digital modes like psk31. Ivy Jane Gardiner VK3IVY http://radio.carnagevisors.net From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 11:35:53 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:35:53 -0600 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:38:07 -0800. Message-ID: In article , "Zane H. Healy" writes: > I think he wants way to much. I paid $100 for mine about 11 years > ago, [...] No offense, but I don't think a price from 11 years ago is relevant anymore. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From george at rachors.com Wed Mar 11 11:48:06 2009 From: george at rachors.com (George L. Rachor Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: hams on classiccmp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090311094435.T34628@racsys.rachors.com> KD7DCX here... Just renewed my ticket. Initially got it to research downloading video from a model rocket. I have all the hardware. Just haven't gotten my act together. I did pick up a TNC and have started to decode packets off the local repeaters. The tie -in with classic computers? I also have some cabling aand software to run packet radio on an Apple ][.. My first computer. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 12 Mar 2009, Ivy Gardiner wrote: >> >> >>> probably lots.. > > > I'm VK3IVY, love mucking around with satellites, and the digital modes like > psk31. > > Ivy Jane Gardiner > VK3IVY > http://radio.carnagevisors.net > From david at thecoolbears.org Wed Mar 11 11:52:21 2009 From: david at thecoolbears.org (David Coolbear) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:52:21 -0700 Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home Message-ID: <200903111652.n2BGqYPO070028@keith.ezwind.net> I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me know off list if you are interested. From brianlanning at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 11:55:41 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:55:41 -0500 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: References: <200903110737.n2B7bjd7001970@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903110955t312e392coddbc5d0e3fc69495@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Jeff Walther wrote: > The built-in SCSI is unenhanced SCSI. ?That means that its maximum > theoretical performance is 5 MB/s. ?It's okay, but can seem a trifle slow. > ?The best SCSI NuBus card only goes up to Fast & Wide (20 MB/s theoretical > maximum). ?There are no Ultra-SCSI nor IDE/ATA NuBus cards for the Mac. Rats, I was hoping for an ide nubus board. > If the thing has an original hard drive in, you could probably get some > speed boost just by installing a more modern SCSI drive with a faster > media speed. ?As slow as the built-in SCSI was in older Macs, the hard > drives of the day usually couldn't sling data even that fast. I've had a lot of success on amigas with 4gig compact flash cards in ide adapters. They're fast and completely silent, with a spooky red activity light that glows through the vents on the top of the machine. :-) I know others in the amiga community have been able to make those work with ide to scsi bridges so I'm thinking I might attempt this with the iifx first, and then the q700. That should max out the scsi bus on the q700 at least. > The connector is called an AAUI (Apple AUI) so you need an AAUI to UTP > transceiver. ?Of course, if you're hunting on Ebay, there's no telling > what the seller will call it. ?There were also transceivers for thinnet > and thicknet, so do not accidentally buy the wrong one. I saw the low end mac page for the connector so I know what it looks like now at least. I also need an AUI adapter for the iifx. It kills me to pay $20 on ebay for these things when I know people are probably throwing them away. > Those things were cheap to free a few years ago. ?They may have all made > their way through the second-hand system to the point where they're not as > easy to come by now. ?If you have a Goodwill Computer Works store in your > area, you might check their cable bins. ?Ours used to be full of the > transceivers. I didn't know these stores existed. My wife keeps insisting that goodwill doesn't take computers. Maybe we've been looking in the wrong goodwill stores. I'm on the north side of chicago. I'm sure they probably have one around. > snipped lost of great info about nubus video cards At this point, I'm mainly interested in getting to 24 bit color. The 1152 resolution looks good on my 19" 4:3 lcd display, so I'll probably stick with that for now. For video cards or vram, I'll wait and see what turns up on ebay I guess. Thanks to everyone for the help. brian From george at rachors.com Wed Mar 11 12:02:00 2009 From: george at rachors.com (George L. Rachor Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <200903111652.n2BGqYPO070028@keith.ezwind.net> References: <200903111652.n2BGqYPO070028@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20090311100128.N34657@racsys.rachors.com> Standard reply.... You are located where? George Rachor Hillsboro, Oregon ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, David Coolbear wrote: > I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This > includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots > up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me > know off list if you are interested. > > > > > From david at thecoolbears.org Wed Mar 11 12:03:02 2009 From: david at thecoolbears.org (David Coolbear) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:03:02 -0700 Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home Message-ID: <200903111703.n2BH3Dq9070923@keith.ezwind.net> Doh! I should mention this is in Livermore, CA. -----Original Message----- From: David Coolbear [mailto:david at thecoolbears.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 AM To: 'cctech at classiccmp.org' Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me know off list if you are interested. From george at rachors.com Wed Mar 11 12:32:03 2009 From: george at rachors.com (George L. Rachor Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <200903111703.n2BH3Dq9070923@keith.ezwind.net> References: <200903111703.n2BH3Dq9070923@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20090311103102.W34883@racsys.rachors.com> Let me know if you get no takers. I've got a friend there that could take it off your hands for me and I would get it later. Best Regards, George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, David Coolbear wrote: > Doh! > > I should mention this is in Livermore, CA. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Coolbear [mailto:david at thecoolbears.org] > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 AM > To: 'cctech at classiccmp.org' > Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home > > I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This > includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots > up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me > know off list if you are interested. > > > > > > > From john_finigan at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 12:46:47 2009 From: john_finigan at yahoo.com (John Finigan) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 3B2 622 on ebay Message-ID: <430786.42392.qm@web37007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No affiliation with the seller, of course. Item number is 160319840832 . John Finigan From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Wed Mar 11 13:17:21 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:17:21 +0100 Subject: plugging : AT&T 3B1 on ebay Message-ID: <7A7D1E679A12454780DBE6BCA83EAFD4@xp1800> Olivetti branded AT&T 3B1 on ebay. 370168187618 -Rik From technobug at comcast.net Wed Mar 11 13:19:19 2009 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:19:19 -0700 Subject: DG 5230MT Terminals Available In-Reply-To: <200903111800.n2BI03k6011570@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903111800.n2BI03k6011570@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1F810CAF-F06A-4C8A-A249-28527F2978EA@comcast.net> I was at a local recycler this past week and he dug out two Data General 5320MT terminal boxes and wondered if I was interested prior to scrapping. If there is any interest, drop me a note off-line. CRC From scheefj at netscape.net Wed Mar 11 14:07:03 2009 From: scheefj at netscape.net (scheefj at netscape.net) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:07:03 -0400 Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <200903111652.n2BGqYPO070028@keith.ezwind.net> References: <200903111652.n2BGqYPO070028@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <8CB7093B23EE84C-B4C-1401@webmail-dh24.sysops.aol.com> David, Many people in your local area might be interested, including myself, if only we knew where that locale might be. Jim -----Original Message----- From: David Coolbear To: cctech at classiccmp.org Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:52 pm Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me know off list if you are interested. From pontus at update.uu.se Wed Mar 11 14:22:46 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:22:46 +0100 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B80F86.9070207@update.uu.se> Richard wrote: > In article , > "Zane H. Healy" writes: > > >> I think he wants way to much. I paid $100 for mine about 11 years >> ago, [...] >> > > No offense, but I don't think a price from 11 years ago is relevant > anymore. > No offense, but I'm getting one for free. Is that relevant? What it is worth is highly subjective. For me 750 is way to much to ask for an 11/44. On the other hand, some unibus cards fetch a fair price on ebay. Which you have to consider if it is incomplete... oh well, if it's complete and you _really_ want a unibus-11, go for it. Cheers, Pontus. From doug at stillhq.com Wed Mar 11 15:00:42 2009 From: doug at stillhq.com (Doug Jackson) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:00:42 +1100 Subject: hams on classiccmp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B8186A.60503@stillhq.com> Here in Australia, VK1ZDJ - I too loved the digital modes. From memory, I was the *first* mobile packet contact in the ACT, I remember driving down the road (in an era when it *clearly* wasn't as dangerous as it is now ;-) ) and typing "not now, I'm driving" to a fellow Ham who connected to me - I still have the TRS-80 Model 100 that I used. We even took it and a TNC/radio backpack on our honeymoon ----- Gota love my girl - she understands escoteric hobies!!! Take care, Doug Ivy Gardiner wrote: >> >>> probably lots.. >>> > > > I'm VK3IVY, love mucking around with satellites, and the digital modes like > psk31. > > Ivy Jane Gardiner > VK3IVY > http://radio.carnagevisors.net > From RichA at vulcan.com Wed Mar 11 15:11:30 2009 From: RichA at vulcan.com (Rich Alderson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:11:30 -0700 Subject: DG 5230MT Terminals Available In-Reply-To: <1F810CAF-F06A-4C8A-A249-28527F2978EA@comcast.net> References: <200903111800.n2BI03k6011570@dewey.classiccmp.org> <1F810CAF-F06A-4C8A-A249-28527F2978EA@comcast.net> Message-ID: And that's local to *where*??? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of CRC Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:19 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: DG 5230MT Terminals Available I was at a local recycler this past week and he dug out two Data General 5320MT terminal boxes and wondered if I was interested prior to scrapping. If there is any interest, drop me a note off-line. CRC From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 15:12:19 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:12:19 -0600 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:22:46 +0100. <49B80F86.9070207@update.uu.se> Message-ID: In article <49B80F86.9070207 at update.uu.se>, Pontus writes: > Richard wrote: > > In article , > > "Zane H. Healy" writes: > > > > > >> I think he wants way to much. I paid $100 for mine about 11 years > >> ago, [...] > >> > > > > No offense, but I don't think a price from 11 years ago is relevant > > anymore. > > > No offense, but I'm getting one for free. Is that relevant? Nope. Not when it comes to determining what people are willing to pay for a PDP-11. I did some checking on ebay and machines much less capable or vintage than an 11/44 were selling for more than $100. Examples: $475 PDP-11/73, item # 300295154117 $200 PDP-11/73, item # 250375935263 $105 PDP-11/05 boards and backplane, item # 230327891779 $99.99 PDP-11 header panel only, item # 230327888816 My understanding is that a PDP-11/44 is much less of a commodity item than either of those machines. Given that the plastic header panel sold for what someone paid for an entire 11/44 11 years ago should indicate what has been happening in this marketplace. More search results: > What it is worth is highly subjective. Yes, but I don't think you can argue that a price from 11 years ago is going to be even marginally relevant to prices today, even when accounting for a temporary dip in prices because people are less willing to buy now than they were last year. What I've noticed on this list is that the people here have a tendency to undervalue what other people are willing to pay for vintage computing gear. Whether that's because they are just too cheap to pay a higher price or because they are living in a past-time when vintage computing collecting wasn't popular (I paid $100 11 years ago) or whatever, I don't know. However, it has been consistent observation in my experience. Deals can still be had, but they are not typical. I've received some stuff for free and other stuff I had to outbid other collectors in order to get it. The going market price for something is not a function of what someone paid for that item 11 years ago; it is based on what people are willing to pay now. Almost certainly everything we collect becomes more scarce over time; rarely does new supply become available. More people are interested in collecting vintage computers now than were interested 11 years ago. Supply has stayed the same and demand has increased. Its a simple economic proposition, really. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 15:11:29 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:11:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <49B546C9.1020301@comcast.net> from "Pete" at Mar 9, 9 09:41:45 am Message-ID: > > These are different times though. It is very hard to sell vintage gear > on ebay right now and the auctions all end lower then they did 6 months > ago and way lower then a year ago. Collectibles go in cycles as well > and really thats what this vintage gear is. > > Is it just the economy or is the little blip of interest in vintage > computer collecting subsiding ? Who knows. Probably best to just stuff Being selfish aout it, this is a Good Thing for me. It means I can possibly afford interesting new toys to investigate, repair, etc. > your prized computers back in the closet for another year or two till I think I'll just keep them on the workbench as I always do. Not all of us are into this hobby for financial gain. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 15:19:35 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:19:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 9, 9 04:34:50 pm Message-ID: > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > Could be, I don't remember, probably lost among the "I want to copy > > Victor 9000/Apple/Lanier/... diskettes on my PC" inquiries. > > How many of those included the clause, > ", and I KNOW that it can be done, because they are both 300 RPM." ? Since when have Victor 9000 disks been '300 rpm' or any constant speed for that matter -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 15:56:53 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:56:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: HP120 keyoard Message-ID: I've just picked up an HP120 (Z80 CP/M machine) on Ebay :-). The main prolem (mentioned in the listing I might add, so I am not complaining) is that it's missing the keyoard. The keyboard connector is a 6-pin telephone type socket (RJ12?). A quick look inside (well, what did you expect) suggests the keyboard interface is contrlled by an 8041 microcnntroller and that it works at 12V levels (not RS232, but 0V and +12V). There are +12V and ground pins on the keyboard socket. So I am looking for any/all of the following : 1) The correct HP keyoard (anyone know the model number?) 2) Details of any other keyboards that can be got to work. 3) Technical details of the keyboard interface. -tony From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Wed Mar 11 15:45:15 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 2009, Tony Duell wrote: >> These are different times though. It is very hard to sell vintage gear >> on ebay right now and the auctions all end lower then they did 6 months >> ago and way lower then a year ago. Collectibles go in cycles as well >> and really thats what this vintage gear is. >> >> Is it just the economy or is the little blip of interest in vintage >> computer collecting subsiding ? Who knows. Probably best to just stuff > > Being selfish aout it, this is a Good Thing for me. It means I can > possibly afford interesting new toys to investigate, repair, etc. > >> your prized computers back in the closet for another year or two till > > I think I'll just keep them on the workbench as I always do. Not all of > us are into this hobby for financial gain. For me, financial gain turned out to be a byproduct. I jumped at the chance to get a vintage IMSAI a few years ago. I'm still selling off the shedful of stuff I was required to take along with the goodies I wanted. This is how I fund my hobby now. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From erik at baigar.de Wed Mar 11 15:53:06 2009 From: erik at baigar.de (Erik Baigar) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:53:06 +0100 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: <49B4F0D7.2489.D19963F@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > It'll be interesting to see if they can hold to their "all floppy > drives" claim. What makes me suspicious is that they talk about > reading floppies on a Windows computer, then transferring them to the > CF card. Perhaps MFM soft-sectored only? I got some information now and they say "it accepts DD and HD disks selectable by jumper" - no specification whether MFM or hard/soft- sectored. But I strongly assume it is PC-style only since they say, that the CF card holds individual files (one per image) which are a binary representation of the disk content and thus are either 2x80x18x512 byte in length for HD images. So no luck with this one for other vintage equipment. I am still waiting for a quotation and I asked about detection of "disk change" as required for a drive to work with HP measurement equipment. > I can find no other mention of this device other than one link. > Perhaps it's not yet ready for prime-time? Should be available for purchase according to the company. Erik. From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 11 16:03:28 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:03:28 -0700 Subject: usb floppy simulator In-Reply-To: References: <20090309163215.A95600@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 9, 9 04:34:50 pm, Message-ID: <49B7C4B0.20580.48AFE32@cclist.sydex.com> On 10 Mar 2009 at 20:19, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > > Could be, I don't remember, probably lost among the "I want to copy > > > Victor 9000/Apple/Lanier/... diskettes on my PC" inquiries. > > > > How many of those included the clause, > > ", and I KNOW that it can be done, because they are both 300 RPM." ? > > Since when have Victor 9000 disks been '300 rpm' or any constant speed > for that matter I don't think anyone made that association, Tony. IIRC Victor/Sirius could be any one of several "constant speeds", depending on the zone. --Chuck From silent700 at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 16:05:27 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:05:27 -0500 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51ea77730903111405q457ee01er423cc2324eac1e67@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, David Griffith wrote: > For me, financial gain turned out to be a byproduct. ?I jumped at the chance > to get a vintage IMSAI a few years ago. ?I'm still selling off the shedful > of stuff I was required to take along with the goodies I wanted. This is how > I fund my hobby now. Not only does it fund the hobby, it generates interference for the hobby's critics. "But....I can make it pay for itself, really!" Sadly this doesn't hold true in all cases. Not until there's a massive upswing in the collectibility of Commodore dot-matrix printers, anyway. From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Wed Mar 11 16:13:05 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <51ea77730903111405q457ee01er423cc2324eac1e67@mail.gmail.com> References: <51ea77730903111405q457ee01er423cc2324eac1e67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Jason T wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, David Griffith wrote: >> For me, financial gain turned out to be a byproduct. ?I jumped at the chance >> to get a vintage IMSAI a few years ago. ?I'm still selling off the shedful >> of stuff I was required to take along with the goodies I wanted. This is how >> I fund my hobby now. > > Not only does it fund the hobby, it generates interference for the > hobby's critics. "But....I can make it pay for itself, really!" > > Sadly this doesn't hold true in all cases. Not until there's a > massive upswing in the collectibility of Commodore dot-matrix > printers, anyway. Why did you accumulate Commodore dot-matrix printers like that in the first place? If they work, I can help you sell them. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 11 16:23:30 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:23:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: DP8367 video controller Message-ID: Does anyone know where I could find a datasheet on the National Semiconductor DP8367 video controller? It's used in some HP machines datasheetarchive and digchip don't seem to have anything. -tony From slawmaster at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 16:29:12 2009 From: slawmaster at gmail.com (John Floren) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:29:12 -0400 Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <200903111703.n2BH3Dq9070923@keith.ezwind.net> References: <200903111703.n2BH3Dq9070923@keith.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <7d3530220903111429w47130b9cta0ac4d5d65d52fbc@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:03 PM, David Coolbear wrote: > Doh! > > I should mention this is in Livermore, CA. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Coolbear [mailto:david at thecoolbears.org] > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 AM > To: 'cctech at classiccmp.org' > Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home > > I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This > includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots > up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me > know off list if you are interested. > > Hi David! The VAX I got from you is doing just fine, btw :) This is so tempting, since I'll be in Livermore again in a few months, but frankly I don't have room for it and probably wouldn't do much with it. Hope somebody takes this, I've always thought NextStations were cool and a system this complete should go to a good parent. John -- "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 16:29:15 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:29:15 -0400 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: References: <51ea77730903111405q457ee01er423cc2324eac1e67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:13 PM, David Griffith wrote: > Why did you accumulate Commodore dot-matrix printers like that in the first > place? ?If they work, I can help you sell them. If they are 1525 printers, the paper is more collectible than the printer. ;-) I've owned a few Commodore dot-matrix printers over the years - the biggest problem I remember with them was that each one was different enough from the other models that even though they'd all respond to, say channel 4 on either the IEEE-488 or IEC bus, and you could send generic strings, all the "features" (the widths, the fonts, the soft-settable chars, etc.) were unique or nearly unique to that model. I think I used the 1526 the most of any C= printer before switching to inexpensive non-C= printers and rigging up my own Centronics cable and driver. I mostly printed assembler listings anyway, so I didn't miss the C= graphic chars that my printers couldn't print. I do have a memory that for what I was doing, the 1526 was a fine printer, but it was less common than other C= printers, so there was rarely any published software that knew its quirks. The next time I want to print something from a C-64 or a PET, I may just do what it takes to hook up one of my HP laser printers - that's sufficiently perverse to be entertaining. -ethan From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 11 16:31:33 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:31:33 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200903111731.34113.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 11 March 2009, Richard wrote: > In article <49B80F86.9070207 at update.uu.se>, > > Pontus writes: > > Richard wrote: > > > In article , > > > > > > "Zane H. Healy" writes: > > >> I think he wants way to much. I paid $100 for mine about 11 > > >> years ago, [...] > > > > > > No offense, but I don't think a price from 11 years ago is > > > relevant anymore. > > > > No offense, but I'm getting one for free. Is that relevant? > > Nope. Not when it comes to determining what people are willing to > pay for a PDP-11. I did some checking on ebay and machines much less > capable or vintage than an 11/44 were selling for more than $100. eBay is one method of determining value, but any one-time search you do won't have enough data to really be useful, since they only go back 2 weeks in completed item searches. > Examples: > > $475 PDP-11/73, item # 300295154117 > $200 PDP-11/73, item # 250375935263 > $105 PDP-11/05 boards and backplane, item # 230327891779 > $99.99 PDP-11 header panel only, item # 230327888816 > > My understanding is that a PDP-11/44 is much less of a commodity item > than either of those machines. Given that the plastic header panel > sold for what someone paid for an entire 11/44 11 years ago should > indicate what has been happening in this marketplace. I'm amazed that an 11/73 or 11/23 would go for that much... I guess I should start selling off my pile of QBUS stuff (though that itself will probably cause a dip in prices). > More search results: > > > What it is worth is highly subjective. > > Yes, but I don't think you can argue that a price from 11 years ago > is going to be even marginally relevant to prices today, even when > accounting for a temporary dip in prices because people are less > willing to buy now than they were last year. I totally agree with this, though. In some cases, prices even *one* year ago are net all that useful for determining value. > What I've noticed on this list is that the people here have a > tendency to undervalue what other people are willing to pay for > vintage computing gear. Whether that's because they are just too > cheap to pay a higher price or because they are living in a past-time > when vintage computing collecting wasn't popular (I paid $100 11 > years ago) or whatever, I don't know. However, it has been > consistent observation in my experience. > > Deals can still be had, but they are not typical. I've received some > stuff for free and other stuff I had to outbid other collectors in > order to get it. I think that deals are more commonplace than you think, just people who don't go searching for deals (ie, university and business surplus sales and auctions, dumpster diving, digging through scrap heaps, and things that people aren't willing to ship) don't see them, because they're hidden behind a layer of obscurity. I get tons of great deals (which is a problem, because I end up with too much stuff) from Purdue's surplus place, where a lot of the non-commodity items just get recycled and the general public doesn't ever see them. I've heard from at least one other person that another university's surplus place does the same thing... so if you don't have connections at these places, you won't see the "good deals". In any case, the value of an item depends as much upon who has a chance to buy it, and what they're willing to pay, as anything else. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 11 16:29:58 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Richard wrote: > What I've noticed on this list is that the people here have a tendency > to undervalue what other people are willing to pay for vintage computing > gear. Whether that's because they are just too cheap to pay a higher > price or because they are living in a past-time when vintage computing > collecting wasn't popular (I paid $100 11 years ago) or whatever, I > don't know. However, it has been consistent observation in my experience. I'll refrain from saying what I have noticed a tendancy for... You'll note that based on what was listed, I said that the only part on that PDP-11/44 with any value was the Power Supply. I paid $100 11 years ago for one that was missing the RAM (and network card but that wouldn't stop it from working). Without a high value card or cards, and missing cards like the one in question is there is no way it's worth $750. It is worth half of that max. BTW, I should soon be able to get mine out of my parents garage and power it up again. If it still works it will be worth more than that $750 as it is complete plus it has RAM, Ethernet, and most importantly a Unibus SCSI card. Even then the real value is in two items, the power supply, and the SCSI card. I value PDP-11 equipment based on what it can legititally be sold for, not what some deep pockets collector might pay on a whim. Many PDP-11's still being used commercially are being replaced with PC's running E11. It is my experience that collectors don't pay as high as the places still running PDP-11's. Here is another hint. A /44 isn't that collectable of a computer. It lacks a real front panel, and it's BIG. For a Hobbyist a Q-Bus based PDP-11 makes a lot more sense. A /44 like mine takes up about as much space as a washer and dryer, and has to run off of a 15A circuit. The only thing I've used it for was when I was doing some work for someone and needed a Unibus system for testing. Otherwise one of my Q-Bus systems is far more practical. This does bring up an interesting question. What percentage of people with PDP-11's have Unibus PDP-11's. Also of the people that do have Unibus PDP-11's, how many have a large number of PDP-11's? Zane From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 16:54:40 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:54:40 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Here is another hint. ?A /44 isn't that collectable of a computer. ?It lacks > a real front panel, and it's BIG. ?For a Hobbyist a Q-Bus based PDP-11 makes > a lot more sense. ?A /44 like mine takes up about as much space as a washer > and dryer, and has to run off of a 15A circuit. ?The only thing I've used it > for was when I was doing some work for someone and needed a Unibus system > for testing. ?Otherwise one of my Q-Bus systems is far more practical. It's not _that_ big... It's the same size as an 11/24, right? (but with Split I/D, so it has more options for OSes, etc.) It is big compared to a MicroPDP-11, though. > This does bring up an interesting question. ?What percentage of people with > PDP-11's have Unibus PDP-11's. ?Also of the people that do have Unibus > PDP-11's, how many have a large number of PDP-11's? I have several Unibus PDP-11s (11/70, 11/44, 11/24, 11/34, 11/04, 11/05, 11/20) as well as Qbus -11s (11/23+, 11/23, 11/03, MINC-11, MicroPDP-11/53, Dataram Q22, Heath H-11). My total -11 count is around 20 boxy machines plus a few DECProfessionals (350s and one 380, no 325s). Most have either floppy or disk or both. One or two are awaiting some attention (like the 11/20 that I got in pieces, rather badly dismantled before I found it in the dumpster at work), but I've booted and run all the rest, some much more than others. None of these cost me more than $300, and that one was an 11/23 I bought used in 1986 to do some consulting (it came in a BA-11N w/KDF-11 CPU, BDV-11, 1xM8044 (32kW) MOS card, DLV11J quad SLU, and an LPV11 - the RLV11 was another $100 from another company). Sometime around 1988, I picked up two loaded 11/34s (RL11/RL02, RX211/RX02, diag paper tapes, RT-11 V2, V43, and V4 floppies, docs, etc.) for $500 (and was able to load both racks plus gear into a Microbus). Nearly every other -11 I have was free for the hauling. I've earned substantially more in consulting and parts sales than I ever paid for all of my PDP-11 gear combined, so I'm already in the black there. I'm willing to admit, though, that some of what I have is uncommon. With what I have already, I think I'm unlikely to fill in the gaps (like an 11/40 or 11/35 or 11/55, etc.) -ethan From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 11 16:55:37 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wanted: Wyse-60... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there anyone local to the Seattle/Tacoma area that has a Wyse-60 with keyboard in good condition that they'd like to part with? tnx! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 16:58:19 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:58:19 -0600 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:29:58 -0700. Message-ID: In article , "Zane H. Healy" writes: > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Richard wrote: > > > What I've noticed on this list is that the people here have a tendency > > to undervalue what other people are willing to pay for vintage computing > > gear. Whether that's because they are just too cheap to pay a higher > > price or because they are living in a past-time when vintage computing > > collecting wasn't popular (I paid $100 11 years ago) or whatever, I > > don't know. However, it has been consistent observation in my experience. > > I'll refrain from saying what I have noticed a tendancy for... I don't know why you want to make this personal, even though you "refrain", its quite clear that comment is intended to insult me. I would have more respect for you if you just insulted me outright instead of trying to insult me while at the same time claiming higher moral ground (and failing). The subject of prices comes up on this list regularly. Routinely the comments are made "back 20 years ago I was picking these up for free". Well, that's a nice anecdote, but it isn't useful in determining what people are willing to pay today. Routinely the complaint is made that ebay has done nothing but drive up prices and so-on. Like it or not, that is the reality. Yeah, it would be great if this stuff was all just sitting by the curb and all you had to do was drive up and put it in your car. It isn't. Wishing for the good ole days is irrelevant. > You'll note that based on what was listed, I said that the only part on that > PDP-11/44 with any value was the Power Supply. I paid $100 11 years ago for > one that was missing the RAM (and network card but that wouldn't stop it > from working). Without a high value card or cards, and missing cards like > the one in question is there is no way it's worth $750. It is worth half of > that max. You're talking like I have claimed the price of $750 is justified or reasonable. I have done no such thing. I am only pointing out that fire sale prices for PDP-11s from a decade ago are irrelevant to what people are willing to pay today. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Mar 11 17:03:17 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:03:17 -0700 Subject: DP8367 Message-ID: <49B83525.3050208@bitsavers.org> see the thread from 2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/message/1057 looks like this was a custom for HP From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:11:05 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:11:05 -0700 Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <7d3530220903111429w47130b9cta0ac4d5d65d52fbc@mail.gmail.com> References: <200903111703.n2BH3Dq9070923@keith.ezwind.net> <7d3530220903111429w47130b9cta0ac4d5d65d52fbc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:29 PM, John Floren wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:03 PM, David Coolbear wrote: >> Doh! >> >> I should mention this is in Livermore, CA. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Coolbear [mailto:david at thecoolbears.org] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 AM >> To: 'cctech at classiccmp.org' >> Subject: NextStation - Free To A Good Home >> >> I have a NextStation color turbo available free for a loving parent. This >> includes the main unit, a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speaker box. It boots >> up to Nextstep 3.3, but it doesn't have the Y2K patches installed. Let me >> know off list if you are interested. >> >> > > Hi David! The VAX I got from you is doing just fine, btw :) > > This is so tempting, since I'll be in Livermore again in a few months, > but frankly I don't have room for it and probably wouldn't do much > with it. > > Hope somebody takes this, I've always thought NextStations were cool > and a system this complete should go to a good parent. I am in San Jose (not too far from Livermore) and could board the system for a while, if that helps. Mark From silent700 at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:15:14 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:15:14 -0500 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: References: <51ea77730903111405q457ee01er423cc2324eac1e67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51ea77730903111515n4f5702ffw38d2a3e749e8b847@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:13 PM, David Griffith wrote: > Why did you accumulate Commodore dot-matrix printers like that in the first > place? ?If they work, I can help you sell them. It was in reference to your previous comment - it seems every time I pick up a Commodore lot locally, there's always a printer in the pile along with the stuff I really wanted, and I'm obligated to take it. From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Wed Mar 11 17:23:09 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: <51ea77730903111515n4f5702ffw38d2a3e749e8b847@mail.gmail.com> References: <51ea77730903111405q457ee01er423cc2324eac1e67@mail.gmail.com> <51ea77730903111515n4f5702ffw38d2a3e749e8b847@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Jason T wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:13 PM, David Griffith wrote: > >> Why did you accumulate Commodore dot-matrix printers like that in the first >> place? ?If they work, I can help you sell them. > > It was in reference to your previous comment - it seems every time I > pick up a Commodore lot locally, there's always a printer in the pile > along with the stuff I really wanted, and I'm obligated to take it. Mmm... Reminds me of the HP 2932a printers I had a while ago. I took out the printheads before chucking them. Anyone want some printheads? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From dave.thearchivist at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:28:31 2009 From: dave.thearchivist at gmail.com (Dave Caroline) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:28:31 +0000 Subject: DP8367 In-Reply-To: <49B83525.3050208@bitsavers.org> References: <49B83525.3050208@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: annoying that they missed the part number from the bench briefs listing HP-Bench-Briefs-1990-07-12.pdf available on www.hparchive.com Dave Caroline From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 17:58:54 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:58:54 -0600 Subject: Considering Bidding (Apple Lisa in box on eBay) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:15:14 -0500. <51ea77730903111515n4f5702ffw38d2a3e749e8b847@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In article <51ea77730903111515n4f5702ffw38d2a3e749e8b847 at mail.gmail.com>, Jason T writes: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:13 PM, David Griffith w= > rote: > > > Why did you accumulate Commodore dot-matrix printers like that in the f= > irst > > place? =A0If they work, I can help you sell them. > > It was in reference to your previous comment - it seems every time I > pick up a Commodore lot locally, there's always a printer in the pile > along with the stuff I really wanted, and I'm obligated to take it. I was gifted a Commodore printer along with a CBM 8032. I gave the printer to the local Commodore vintage shop. He was happy to take it off my hands. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 18:11:14 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:11:14 -0600 Subject: HP Journal issues online Message-ID: Just stumbled across this today... I didn't realize HP had put most of these online. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 18:39:34 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:39:34 -0600 Subject: 1958 book "Basics of Digital Computers" Message-ID: ebay item # 260375582605 I have no connection to the seller, but my "show me vintage stuff for sale locally" search spat this out this morning. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From mwichary at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 19:48:32 2009 From: mwichary at gmail.com (Marcin Wichary) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:48:32 -0700 Subject: 1958 book "Basics of Digital Computers" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1debc0350903111748i360b2ee3p5964b3ae2fc2b0f6@mail.gmail.com> It seems to be available for the same price or even cheaper on Amazon... http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Basics+Digital+Computers+murphy&x=0&y=0 -- Marcin Wichary Sr. user experience designer, Google Graphical User Interface gallery >> www.guidebookgallery.org From technobug at comcast.net Wed Mar 11 21:10:58 2009 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:10:58 -0700 Subject: DG 5230MT Terminals Available In-Reply-To: <200903112225.n2BMPdHc018060@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903112225.n2BMPdHc018060@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:11:30 -0700, Rich Alderson wrote: > > And that's local to *where*??? > > -----Original Message----- > I was at a local recycler this past week and he dug out two Data > General 5320MT terminal boxes and wondered if I was interested prior > to scrapping. If there is any interest, drop me a note off-line. Sorry 'bout dat - long night and not enough coffee... Tucson, AZ 85704, USA CRC From james at jdfogg.com Wed Mar 11 21:20:23 2009 From: james at jdfogg.com (James Fogg) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2827.192.168.99.142.1236824423.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> > This does bring up an interesting question. What percentage of people > with > PDP-11's have Unibus PDP-11's. Also of the people that do have Unibus > PDP-11's, how many have a large number of PDP-11's? Q-bus PDP-11/23 in the Dec half-height cabinet with 2 RL02's (a common configuration apparently). It came with two VT-100's and a LA36 DecWriter II. I have yet to power it up. My second PDP is an 11/73 in a desk-side case (is that the microPDP-11/73?) that I had running for a while. My other Dec holdings are an Alphaserver 4100 in a pedestal configuration with a similar sized external SCSI array and a VaxStation. My college gave me a PDP-8 in a full rack with a fixed disk, but I had to re-home that when I moved out of my parents home and into an apartment. At the time they weren't particularly collectible or uncommon. I've begged the new owner several times to consider returning it, or at least leaving it to me in his will. -- James - Certified autodidactic polymath and proud of it! From jdbryan at acm.org Wed Mar 11 21:59:53 2009 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:59:53 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu>, Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 11, 2009 at 10:49, Christian Corti wrote: > An F-series without FPP (floating-point processor) acts like an E-series. Except that the floating point instructions won't work. Nor will some of the double-integer instructions (e.g., multiply and divide), as they use the FPP also. The F-series base set microcode makes explicit calls on the FPP that the E-series microcode does not. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Wed Mar 11 22:15:58 2009 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:15:58 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 11, 2009 at 0:41, Josh Dersch wrote: > The 1000F (2117F) has the following installed: > > 10 - F.E.M. What ROMs are installed in the FEM sockets (part numbers)? > The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & mainboard and a > single F.E.M. card in slot 10. Without a memory controller and memory card, this unit will not work. > The F.E.M. is cabled to the main board via a ribbon cable (this ribbon > cable is not present on the 1000F). The FEM needs that cable in order to work. So the FEM in the F will be non- functional. > Is the above enough to get a minimal system running (i.e. to allow > toggling in programs via the front panel and testing the system?) The F-series probably will. The only question is whether the self-test microcode that is executed at power-up will pass without the FPP box. As I recall, it will, but all of the floating-point and some of the double- integer instructions will not work. > Is there anything I need to know about how the cards need to be > configured/cabled together? There should be a ribbon cable to the front connector on the DCPC card. Only the left-side connectors of the memory controller and memory cards should be interconnected. The front connector of the FEM card must be connected to the main board to work (you could move the cable from the E- series). For interrupts to work properly, the I/O cards must be contiguous starting from slot 10. > My understanding is that the F-series has some kind of floating-point > support, but it's also my understanding that such support was provided > via an external expansion, which I do not have. The 2117 used an external rack-mount box about 1/3 of the height of the CPU chassis. The 2111 housed the FPP cards within the CPU chassis. > Since I don't have this expansion, will the 1000F work at all, or > should I move the cards I have to the E? It should work, modulo the malfunctioning instructions. The E-series, with memory and a memory controller, will have functioning firmware-based floating point instructions. So I'd recommend concentrating on a functional E rather than a damaged F. -- Dave From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 22:41:14 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:41:14 -0400 Subject: PDP-11 configurations (was Re: PDP 11/44) Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM, James Fogg wrote: >> This does bring up an interesting question. ?What percentage of people >> with >> PDP-11's have Unibus PDP-11's. ?Also of the people that do have Unibus >> PDP-11's, how many have a large number of PDP-11's? > > Q-bus PDP-11/23 in the Dec half-height cabinet with 2 RL02's (a common > configuration apparently). Yes... a common 1980s small office configuration. Pretty big for a single-user RT-11 system of the day (I was using a single RL01 for my OS and development environment and a single RL02 for customer data in 1986). Not so bad for a small RSX-11 or small RSTS environment (we were using a machine with only 4 RL02s for a RSTS-based accounting system for a multi-million-dollar company in 1984). > It came with two VT-100's and a LA36 DecWriter II. Sounds like a small RSX-11 or small RSTS system, then, or perhaps it was used with TSX-11. One doesn't usually see multiple terminals with RT-11. > My second PDP is an 11/73 in a desk-side case (is that the microPDP-11/73?) The MicroPDP machines I've seen are in a BA23 (could be racked, could be in a desk-side pedestal), with a 1" MicroPDP nameplate near the power switch. It's spring-loaded, so you can pull it out and turn it 90 degrees for upright or racked orientation. > My college gave me a PDP-8 in a full rack with a fixed disk... Oooh... nice. What disk? RF08? RK05F? > but I had to re-home that when I moved out of my parents home and into an apartment. At > the time they weren't particularly collectible or uncommon. I've begged > the new owner several times to consider returning it, or at least leaving > it to me in his will. Good luck on that. I myself held onto a Quest Elf for a friend who had to purge his place when he got married. I returned it to him many years later when he was divorced. He was 16 when he built it and its hand-made aluminum case and extra I/O to control the robot it sat at the top of. He was quite happy to get it back in perfectly working condition after so many years. I was happy for the use of it over those same years. -ethan From rescue at hawkmountain.net Wed Mar 11 23:04:57 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:04:57 -0400 Subject: MicroPDP Deskside pedestal wanted Message-ID: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> I have a PDP that was pulled from a rack (of which I don't have)... rather than running it 'bared skin'... I'd like to find a deskside pedestal to put it in. Anyone have one they care to give up/sell/trade/etc ? -- Curt From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 11 23:12:35 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:35 -0600 Subject: 1958 book "Basics of Digital Computers" In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:48:32 -0700. <1debc0350903111748i360b2ee3p5964b3ae2fc2b0f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In article <1debc0350903111748i360b2ee3p5964b3ae2fc2b0f6 at mail.gmail.com>, Marcin Wichary writes: > It seems to be available for the same price or even cheaper on Amazon... Oh yeah, I didn't think of that since I wasn't seriously going to consider purchasing it. With books its always wise to price compare the used book sellers on Amazon. Good catch. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From glen.slick at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 23:15:43 2009 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:15:43 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:15 PM, J. David Bryan wrote: > The F-series probably will. ?The only question is whether the self-test > microcode that is executed at power-up will pass without the FPP box. ?As I > recall, it will, but all of the floating-point and some of the double- > integer instructions will not work. > My 2117F will pass the microcode self-test without the FPP box. I originally acquired the 2117F without the FPP, then a while later picked up the FPP. The only issue I had passing the self-test was learning that the power supply had the battery option which prevents the CPU from starting unless an appropriate resister (~800ohm?) is connected acros the battery connector thermistor inputs. That has been discussed on this list a few times in the past. > It should work, modulo the malfunctioning instructions. ?The E-series, with > memory and a memory controller, will have functioning firmware-based > floating point instructions. ?So I'd recommend concentrating on a > functional E rather than a damaged F. If the 2113E Josh has now is the one that came from me a while back I gave it a quick try with known good memory section boards from my 2117F and the front panel didn't seem to respond at all, if I remember correctly. So maybe in his case the 2117F might be the better system to start with. If the 2117F works except for microcode issues without the FPP, could you just swap the firmware from the 2113E into the 2117F to turn it into a working 2113E equivalent? -Glen From evan at snarc.net Wed Mar 11 23:17:29 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:17:29 -0400 Subject: 1958 book "Basics of Digital Computers" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002901c9a2c9$7879e370$0301a8c0@evan> >>> With books its always wise to price compare the used book sellers on Amazon. Good catch. Best place to shop for used books is http://used.addall.net. From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Wed Mar 11 23:22:11 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:22:11 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <49B88DF3.4020705@mail.msu.edu> J. David Bryan wrote: > On Wednesday, March 11, 2009 at 0:41, Josh Dersch wrote: > > >> The 1000F (2117F) has the following installed: >> >> 10 - F.E.M. >> > > What ROMs are installed in the FEM sockets (part numbers)? > > All but columns G and H are populated, so here goes: Column A: 5180-0141, 5180-0142, 5180-0143 Column B: 12823-80019, 12823-80020, 12823-80021 Column C: 12824-80007, 12824-80008, 12824-80009 Column D: 92067-80001, 92067-80002, 92067-80003 Column E: 1816-1301, 1816-1303, 1816-1304 Column F: 1816-1305, 1816-1306, 1816-1307 (Cols A-D are labeled with paper labels, E-F are printed on the chip itself) >> The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & mainboard and a >> single F.E.M. card in slot 10. >> > > Without a memory controller and memory card, this unit will not work. > > > >> The F.E.M. is cabled to the main board via a ribbon cable (this ribbon >> cable is not present on the 1000F). >> > > The FEM needs that cable in order to work. So the FEM in the F will be non- > functional. > Gotcha. Easy to swap around :). > > >> Is the above enough to get a minimal system running (i.e. to allow >> toggling in programs via the front panel and testing the system?) >> > > The F-series probably will. The only question is whether the self-test > microcode that is executed at power-up will pass without the FPP box. As I > recall, it will, but all of the floating-point and some of the double- > integer instructions will not work. > > > >> Is there anything I need to know about how the cards need to be >> configured/cabled together? >> > > There should be a ribbon cable to the front connector on the DCPC card. > Only the left-side connectors of the memory controller and memory cards > should be interconnected. The front connector of the FEM card must be > connected to the main board to work (you could move the cable from the E- > series). > > For interrupts to work properly, the I/O cards must be contiguous starting > from slot 10. > > Understood. > >> My understanding is that the F-series has some kind of floating-point >> support, but it's also my understanding that such support was provided >> via an external expansion, which I do not have. >> > > The 2117 used an external rack-mount box about 1/3 of the height of the CPU > chassis. The 2111 housed the FPP cards within the CPU chassis. > > > >> Since I don't have this expansion, will the 1000F work at all, or >> should I move the cards I have to the E? >> > > It should work, modulo the malfunctioning instructions. The E-series, with > memory and a memory controller, will have functioning firmware-based > floating point instructions. So I'd recommend concentrating on a > functional E rather than a damaged F. > > -- Dave > > > Thanks, I'll give that a shot... Josh From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Wed Mar 11 23:28:33 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:28:33 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B88F71.5000505@mail.msu.edu> Glen Slick wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:15 PM, J. David Bryan wrote: > > >> The F-series probably will. The only question is whether the self-test >> microcode that is executed at power-up will pass without the FPP box. As I >> recall, it will, but all of the floating-point and some of the double- >> integer instructions will not work. >> >> > > My 2117F will pass the microcode self-test without the FPP box. I > originally acquired the 2117F without the FPP, then a while later > picked up the FPP. The only issue I had passing the self-test was > learning that the power supply had the battery option which prevents > the CPU from starting unless an appropriate resister (~800ohm?) is > connected acros the battery connector thermistor inputs. That has > been discussed on this list a few times in the past. > > How does one tell whether a power supply has the battery option? (Is it merely the presence of the battery connector on the rear, which both of my machines have?) >> It should work, modulo the malfunctioning instructions. The E-series, with >> memory and a memory controller, will have functioning firmware-based >> floating point instructions. So I'd recommend concentrating on a >> functional E rather than a damaged F. >> > > If the 2113E Josh has now is the one that came from me a while back I > gave it a quick try with known good memory section boards from my > 2117F and the front panel didn't seem to respond at all, if I remember > correctly. So maybe in his case the 2117F might be the better system > to start with. > > If the 2117F works except for microcode issues without the FPP, could > you just swap the firmware from the 2113E into the 2117F to turn it > into a working 2113E equivalent? > Yes, the 2113 is the machine I got from you awhile back :). I powered it up just now after testing the power supply and moving the boards from the F and the front panel is mostly unresponsive -- I can clear the input display and toggle bits on and off, but I can't deposit or examine memory -- those buttons do nothing at all. The "Power Fail" light is lit, does this indicate anything? (perhaps related to the battery option?) (in addition, the "Run" light and all the register lights are lit on power up, and the display lights always seem to come up reading "065372" but this may be coincidence.) The 2117 is completely unresponsive thus far. It powers up, but I get nothing whatsoever on the front panel. Josh > -Glen > > > > From james at jdfogg.com Wed Mar 11 23:32:42 2009 From: james at jdfogg.com (James Fogg) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PDP-11 configurations (was Re: PDP 11/44) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3834.192.168.99.142.1236832362.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> >> Q-bus PDP-11/23 in the Dec half-height cabinet with 2 RL02's (a common >> configuration apparently). > > Yes... a common 1980s small office configuration. Pretty big for a > single-user RT-11 system of the day (I was using a single RL01 for my > OS and development environment and a single RL02 for customer data in > 1986). Not so bad for a small RSX-11 or small RSTS environment (we > were using a machine with only 4 RL02s for a RSTS-based accounting > system for a multi-million-dollar company in 1984). It had 4 RL02's, but I'm donating 2 of them to a friend. And it was used for accounting. Did this company live somewhere near Belcher's Falls, MA? >> My second PDP is an 11/73 in a desk-side case (is that the >> microPDP-11/73?) > > The MicroPDP machines I've seen are in a BA23 (could be racked, could > be in a desk-side pedestal), with a 1" MicroPDP nameplate near the > power switch. It's spring-loaded, so you can pull it out and turn it > 90 degrees for upright or racked orientation. Yes, checking google shows me its in a BA23. This system was pieced together and the case isn't exactly complete. >> My college gave me a PDP-8 in a full rack with a fixed disk... > > Oooh... nice. What disk? RF08? RK05F? RF08. It also had lots of core, either 16k or 32k in four boards if that sounds right. It was the maximum it could support. My memory isn't so good given that it was 22 years ago. It had a paper tape reader too. At the time I had no understanding of its significance. I read enough manuals to get it to boot and I remember running a program or two but that was it. It was clean and running, with a box full of tapes and a few boxes of manuals. At the time my surplus Xerox 820 with W0RLI packet BBS software and dual 8 inch floppy disks had much more of my attention and it could fit in my apartment. From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 11 23:56:39 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:56:39 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> Message-ID: On Mar 11, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Someone I know has a PDP 11/44 available.. might end up on EBay. >> Apparently 2 racks pulled out in working condition, including the >> following cards. >> >> m-7090 m 7094 m-7093 m 8743 m 8743 m 7098 m 7097 >> m 7096 m 902 m 7800 m 7900 m 7902 m 7903 m 7258 >> >> He's looking for $750 but I'm not sure I'll have the space. What >> do you think? > > I think he wants way to much. I paid $100 for mine about 11 years > ago, though I did have to come up with RAM for it. BTW, the real > value is in the power supply. Hmm. Will you sell it for $100 now? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From jam at magic.com Thu Mar 12 00:02:27 2009 From: jam at magic.com (James A. Markevitch) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? Message-ID: <200903120502.WAA12215@magellan.magic.com> > > What ROMs are installed in the FEM sockets (part numbers)? > > > > > All but columns G and H are populated, so here goes: > > Column A: 5180-0141, 5180-0142, 5180-0143 F-Series Fast Fortran (FFP) and Dynamic Mapping Instructions (DMI) > Column B: 12823-80019, 12823-80020, 12823-80021 F-Series Scientific Instruction Set (SIS) > Column C: 12824-80007, 12824-80008, 12824-80009 F-Series Vector Instruction Set (VIS) > Column D: 92067-80001, 92067-80002, 92067-80003 E/F-Series RTE-IV A/B Extended Memory Area (EMA) > Column E: 1816-1301, 1816-1303, 1816-1304 > Column F: 1816-1305, 1816-1306, 1816-1307 Does anyone know what these are? I don't see anything about them in any of my handbooks. James Markevitch From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 00:06:45 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:06:45 -0400 Subject: PDP-11 configurations (was Re: PDP 11/44) In-Reply-To: <3834.192.168.99.142.1236832362.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> References: <3834.192.168.99.142.1236832362.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:32 AM, James Fogg wrote: >>> Q-bus PDP-11/23 in the Dec half-height cabinet with 2 RL02's (a common >>> configuration apparently). >> >> Yes... a common 1980s small office configuration... (we >> were using a machine with only 4 RL02s for a RSTS-based accounting >> system for a multi-million-dollar company in 1984). > > It had 4 RL02's, but I'm donating 2 of them to a friend. Ah. A good friend you are indeed. > And it was used > for accounting. Did this company live somewhere near Belcher's Falls, MA? Nope. Columbus, OH; and I know nobody else could have parts from it, because I got to keep it when the company folded (it was repurposed in the early 1990s anyway, into a RSTS v9 development platform for the company's products on behalf of the very few customers who were still on RSTS that late). > Yes, checking google shows me its in a BA23. This system was pieced > together and the case isn't exactly complete. Ah. Well... depending on what used to be in that BA23, who knows what the badge originally might have been. We got a MicroVAX II badge when we upgraded a uVAX-I to -II back when they were all new (and an expensive upgrade it was!) >> Oooh... nice. ?What disk? ?RF08? ?RK05F? > > RF08. That's one peripheral I've never owned or seen running. I have some DF32 disks - sorta like the RF08 (right down to a nearly-identical IOT instruction set), but 32K words per drive unit, max 4 drives (1 DF32, 3 DS32 expanders). The RF08 is much larger, IIRC. > It also had lots of core, either 16k or 32k in four boards if that > sounds right. It was the maximum it could support. 32K is the max memory without a KT8A memory management board, but as for 4 boards, it depends on the boards. I've seen 4K stacks, I've seen 16K stacks. I might have even seen 8K stacks, but if someone swears they don't exist, I'm probably wrong. 8K is an important threshold because that's the minimum to run OS/8. 12K is important for users of certain system devices (like DECtape) because there needs to be memory to hold the second page of a two-page system handler. 16K is a nice round number, and 32K is a "full boat". ADVENT needs 32K. Most other programs I've personally run across will run in 16K. > It had a paper tape reader too. At the > time I had no understanding of its significance. I read enough manuals to > get it to boot and I remember running a program or two but that was it. It > was clean and running, with a box full of tapes and a few boxes of > manuals. I have -8s with papertape only, and a few newer units with 8" floppy, 5.25" floppy and a couple flavors of hard disk. Any machine with enough memory (and storage) to run OS/8 is interesting by itself, but even 8K-12K and papertape BASIC is accessible to most folks with 1980s computer experience. (FOCAL runs in 4K, but that's an entirely odd environment for BASIC wonks, IMO). > At the time my surplus Xerox 820 with W0RLI packet BBS software > and dual 8 inch floppy disks had much more of my attention and it could > fit in my apartment. Ah... well a Xerox 820 is quite probably rarer than _a_ PDP-8, but the RF08 made your -8 somewhat uncommon. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 00:20:07 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:20:07 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:56 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Mar 11, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> I think he wants way to much. ?I paid $100 for mine about 11 years ago, >> though I did have to come up with RAM for it. ?BTW, the real value is in the >> power supply. > > ?Hmm. ?Will you sell it for $100 now? I was going to suggest "in adjusted dollars", but checking $100 in 1998 vs 2009, it only comes out to $130. Not enough to matter (even $100 from 1980 to today is only $256 - barely enough to matter, and more than twice as old). Mine was free in 1999 - recovered after a Y2K project was done extracting information from it. I hope to someday find a disk for it that will hold 2.11BSD, though I suppose going through what I have on hand could work - a UDA50 and either an RA81 or an RA70 (if the RA81 is still good - at least it's not one of the ones with sketchy HDA glue). I would want more than $100 for the CPU in any case, but I don't think I'd fuss if I tried to sell it and it didn't fetch $750. In my experience (local to Ohio, not close to Maynard where DEC machines fell like ripe fruit from the trees from the stories I've heard ;-), the 11/23 and 11/34 are probably the most common PDP-11s to be had from any era, with the possible exception of the DEC Professionals. The 11/03 was common at one point here since they were the cheapest -11 DEC sold for many years, but the mid-1970s was a long time ago, and they have since ascended the right curve of the bathtub-shaped price graph due to age. I wish 11/73s were more common - that's one I still don't have, but only because I never chose to plunk down money for one (I was past the need commercially when they were dethroned). Amongst these, I would class the 11/44 as somewhat uncommon - folks who bought one new needed Unibus for some reason and needed Split I&D (or they probably would have bought an 11/24) and didn't want to spend real money on an 11/70. If they were buying PDP-11s and didn't need Unibus, they probably would have gone with a loaded 11/73. I saw plenty of 11/73s in the mid-1980s, and only 1-2 11/44s ever. They filled a niche, but not a very large one in my observation. -ethan From glen.slick at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 00:29:15 2009 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:29:15 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <49B88F71.5000505@mail.msu.edu> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> <49B88F71.5000505@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90903112229r28aa49f1y4a5a0390387dbfa0@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > > How does one tell whether a power supply has the battery option? ?(Is it > merely the presence of the battery connector on the rear, which both of my > machines have?) Remove the top cover on the power supply. I think on mine there is a board legend either on the top of the cover or on the inside of the cover after you remove it. If you have a jumper board installed the battery backup option is not installed, and if the jumper board is not installed I believe there is an inverter board and a battery charger board installed as part of the battery backup option. That's from memory and I'd either need to look inside my own systems or find the right manual to look at to verify I have that correct. -Glen From tosteve at yahoo.com Thu Mar 12 01:51:52 2009 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven stengel) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WANTED: Televideo 1603 CP/M boot disk (in the UK) Message-ID: <101425.38895.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I AM FORWARDING THE MESSAGE FOR KEN IN THE UK, DIRECT RESPONSES TO HIM. ====================================================================== I wonder if you could help me. I have an old Televideo 1603 (twin floppy) computer. However, I no longer have a working CP/M 86 boot disk for it. I am based in Kingston Upon Thames in the UK, so someone this side of the pond would be my preference if that were possible. Regards, Ken Bryan keno at devout.com ====================================================================== I AM FORWARDING THE MESSAGE FOR KEN IN THE UK, DIRECT RESPONSES TO HIM. From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Thu Mar 12 02:02:33 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:02:33 +0100 Subject: PDP-11 configurations (was Re: PDP 11/44) In-Reply-To: References: <3834.192.168.99.142.1236832362.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:06:45 -0400 > From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PDP-11 configurations (was Re: PDP 11/44) > > ... snip ... > > I have -8s with papertape only, and a few newer units with 8" floppy, > 5.25" floppy and a couple flavors of hard disk. Any machine with > enough memory (and storage) to run OS/8 is interesting by itself, but > even 8K-12K and papertape BASIC is accessible to most folks with 1980s > computer experience. (FOCAL runs in 4K, but that's an entirely odd > environment for BASIC wonks, IMO). > ... > -ethan So, that makes my Motorola 6809 "blinkenlight" board also interesting! I can run (unpatched) OS/8 on my 6809-based pdp8/e simulator. Fire up BASIC and load SPACWR. You must have patience as for every move you have to wait 15 minutes ... but in the mean time it is fun to look at the "blinkenlights" :-) The simulation of RX01 using real 3.5" floppy drives still needs to be tested and debugged! - Henk. From steerex at ccvn.com Wed Mar 11 07:00:25 2009 From: steerex at ccvn.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:00:25 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1236772825.18354.28.camel@homer> On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 10:49 +0100, Christian Corti wrote: > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Josh Dersch wrote: > > Front: > > DCPC slot - D.C.P.C board > > 111 - Memory Protect > > 112 - M.E.M. > > . > > . > > . > > 121 - 64K HSM > > 122 - 64K HSM > > 123 - MEM CNTLR (cabled to 122 & 121 on left-side connector via > > ribbon cable) > > This isn't much memory. I guess that depends on what you want to use it for. If you want to toggle in small programs and learn how the thing works, a couple of hundred words would be more than enough. While 128K words isn't much in modern terms, it's plenty to do some really interesting things. In your situation, I'd start toggling in some programs and see what it does. > > > Rear: > > 10 - F.E.M. > > 12 - BACI > > 14 - BUS I/O > > I'd put the BACI into slot 11 and the Bus I/O into 12 (avoid empty > slots between cards). You need an HP terminal (e.g. a 2648A with > cartridges) or an emulation which provides the fast binary load feature in > order to boot from the terminal as you don't have anything else to boot > from. And I recommend a TBG (time base generator). > > The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & mainboard and a > > single F.E.M. card in slot 10. The F.E.M. is cabled to the main board via a > > ribbon cable (this ribbon cable is not present on the 1000F). I assume this > > machine isn't going to do much as it is. > > Right, this machine would do nothing. > Actually, the machine is usable in it's current configuration. Once again, it depends on what you want to use it for. Finding a 2648A terminal with cartridges and software properly configured for your machine will not be easy. IMHO, The easiest way to boot the computer from an external device is to use the BACI board and upload programs serially from a PC. Toggle in a few instructions on the front panel, establish a serial link from the PC, and upload the program. Can't get much simpler than that. Although, I did have to write a program on my Linux box to upload the data. Check the BOOT ROMS (below the MEM cards) and see what device(s) they are for. I'd be willing to bet one of them is for the 2648A. In that case, you don't have to toggle in anything on the HP1000. If you are hardware guy, you could also build a parallel interface and upload data (programs) through the bus I/O card. I've done that as well. Either mechanism will work. If you want a full blown RTE machine... You've got you work cut out. A few weeks ago, someone had a bunch of cards for sale on eBay. As I recall, most of them were in the $30-$50 range. Not that bad a deal if you only need one or two to get a machine running. Check bitsavers... There is quite a bit of information about these machines in the archive. See yas, SteveRob From SupeduJour at aol.com Wed Mar 11 12:04:11 2009 From: SupeduJour at aol.com (SupeduJour at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:04:11 EDT Subject: Any former Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers? Message-ID: Greetings David, Yes, I used a VideoWriter for years - got lots of good work out of it. But, it now sits, a broken man. My problem is, I have these discs that I can't seem to do anything with. They're filled with years of work and I can't access them. Please advise. I live in Nashville, TN. Maybe there's a place down here (up here) to retrieve the data. Thanks for your time, Michael Supe Granda 615-361-1685 **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) From parasang at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 17:50:19 2009 From: parasang at yahoo.com (Retep the First) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e Message-ID: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: Problem 1: I have two Vax with both with similar problems. One is a 3100 VAXstation-76 and the other is a VAX 3100 and both give a keyboard error. Both display a backwards "?" and then "VT420 Keyboard Error - 4" -- the 3100-10e shows VT320 error instead. The VAXstation has not run as yet, but I have had the 10e running in the past. Now both machines display an error. Both machines and peripherals (including the VT420 and VT320) were purchased through eBay. Problem 2: About two years ago I signed up for an openVMS licence. Since then I have been unable to get the operating system working or either Montagar or ENCOMPASS to give me little more than the time of day. It has been almost 2 years since this started and I have tried almost all that I can think of to get it settled. Hopefully you can suggest what to do -- I have gone 1 year past the licence renewal and no-one has even contacted me. Peter __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From jfk at kuenzigbooks.com Wed Mar 11 18:31:28 2009 From: jfk at kuenzigbooks.com (Kuenzig Books, John F. Kuenzig) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:31:28 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B849D0.20906@kuenzigbooks.com> Richard wrote: > What I've noticed on this list is that the people here have a tendency > to undervalue what other people are willing to pay for vintage computing > gear. Whether that's because they are just too cheap to pay a higher > price or because they are living in a past-time when vintage computing > collecting wasn't popular (I paid $100 11 years ago) or whatever, I > don't know. However, it has been consistent observation in my experience. > > I've found this same sentiment uttered on many collector listserves and suspect it is related to another phenomena (not cheapness). Since most on each list are active participants in the collecting community in question (vintage computing here) they are much more aware of the opportunities, where they are likely to crop up, and often get a favorable price from sellers who are willing to sell for less money and aggravation than selling normally requires. Many ebayers aren't tied into this underground, and will pay more since that is the major (only?) place they can buy material. I also buy/sell/collect microscopes and other scientific apparatus. I've noticed this same tendency in myself - feeling that many seller prices are outrageous given what I've been successful buying things for in the past. But I've come to realize that I know what constitutes a good value, and only buy in those instances I think I'm getting a good price (or at least a workable one). So I don't cast bad words on those sellers anymore - they're just pricing based on their experience with how rare something is - no more and no less. Unless of course they're crooks. Best, John From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Mar 12 02:27:45 2009 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (Ed Groenenberg) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:27:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: PDP 11/44 Message-ID: <53800.213.169.196.228.1236842865.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> -snip snip snip > > The subject of prices comes up on this list regularly. Routinely the > comments are made "back 20 years ago I was picking these up for free". > Well, that's a nice anecdote, but it isn't useful in determining what > people are willing to pay today. Routinely the complaint is made that > ebay has done nothing but drive up prices and so-on. Like it or not, > that is the reality. Yeah, it would be great if this stuff was all > just sitting by the curb and all you had to do was drive up and put it > in your car. It isn't. Wishing for the good ole days is irrelevant. > >> You'll note that based on what was listed, I said that the only part on >> that >> PDP-11/44 with any value was the Power Supply. I paid $100 11 years ago >> for >> one that was missing the RAM (and network card but that wouldn't stop it >> from working). Without a high value card or cards, and missing cards >> like >> the one in question is there is no way it's worth $750. It is worth >> half of >> that max. > > You're talking like I have claimed the price of $750 is justified or > reasonable. I have done no such thing. I am only pointing out that > fire sale prices for PDP-11s from a decade ago are irrelevant to what > people are willing to pay today. - snip snip snip I donated 2 boxed 11/44 and several spares to a museum a few weeks ago. They have a much better use for them than I do. The 11/44 is for me a less interesting machine compared to my 11/70, 11/45, 11/35, 11/34 and 11/05. -- Certified : VCP 3.x, SCSI 3.x SCSA S10, SCNA S10 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Mar 12 03:24:48 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:24:48 +0100 Subject: MicroPDP Deskside pedestal wanted In-Reply-To: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> References: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <20090312092448.fb234e9c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:04:57 -0400 "Curtis H. Wilbar Jr." wrote: > Anyone have one they care to give up/sell/trade/etc ? I have one. Free for local pickup. But it is located in Kaiserslautern, Germany... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Thu Mar 12 04:39:22 2009 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:39:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1236772825.18354.28.camel@homer> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <1236772825.18354.28.camel@homer> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Steve Robertson wrote: >>> The 1000E (2113E) is empty aside from the power-supply & mainboard and a >>> single F.E.M. card in slot 10. The F.E.M. is cabled to the main board via a >> >> Right, this machine would do nothing. > > Actually, the machine is usable in it's current configuration. Once > again, it depends on what you want to use it for. No, without memory, it won't do anything. > configured for your machine will not be easy. IMHO, The easiest way to > boot the computer from an external device is to use the BACI board and > upload programs serially from a PC. Right, I haven't tried if I could use AdvanceLink or HPTerm (both can be found on hpmuseum.net) to boot the machine. > Toggle in a few instructions on the front panel, establish a serial link > from the PC, and upload the program. Can't get much simpler than that. > Check the BOOT ROMS (below the MEM cards) and see what device(s) they > are for. I'd be willing to bet one of them is for the 2648A. In that > case, you don't have to toggle in anything on the HP1000. You usually don't need to toggle in any instruction since the 264x bootloader ROM is standard in the E- and F-series machines. Christian From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Mar 12 04:58:58 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:58:58 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e90903112229r28aa49f1y4a5a0390387dbfa0@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> <49B88F71.5000505@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903112229r28aa49f1y4a5a0390387dbfa0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B8DCE2.6050209@mail.msu.edu> Glen Slick wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > >> How does one tell whether a power supply has the battery option? (Is it >> merely the presence of the battery connector on the rear, which both of my >> machines have?) >> > > Remove the top cover on the power supply. I think on mine there is a > board legend either on the top of the cover or on the inside of the > cover after you remove it. If you have a jumper board installed the > battery backup option is not installed, and if the jumper board is not > installed I believe there is an inverter board and a battery charger > board installed as part of the battery backup option. That's from > memory and I'd either need to look inside my own systems or find the > right manual to look at to verify I have that correct. > > -Glen > > Thanks. Checked it out and there's no battery option present on the E, there appears to be one in the F. Tested the power supply in the F and it's completely dead. I get ~0.25V on the 5V lines, and 0V on the 12V lines. I'll put that one on the shelf for a later day... Don't tell Tony, but I swapped out the main board from the F to the E and now the 1000E seems to be working... it powers up, the "display" register counts up to 3 and at that point I'm able to view registers, and deposit stuff into memory (and call it back later :)). Now to see if I can get something running on it... Thanks all for the help! Josh From ploopster at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 05:24:32 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:24:32 -0400 Subject: macintosh rom simms In-Reply-To: <5DC430A79B044C568013ED5D0075A359@liberator> References: <200903102121.n2ALLadm019636@floodgap.com><624168DAC08A448B90EC856DAC8CDFC0@game> <6dbe3c380903102044g3af1cf8et844b8e8990f0e9a3@mail.gmail.com> <5DC430A79B044C568013ED5D0075A359@liberator> Message-ID: <49B8E2E0.40007@gmail.com> Geoff Reed wrote: > 1152x874 :) That's 1152x864. Peace... Sridhar > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Lanning > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:45 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms > > So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive. > The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not > much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4 > bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video. > > It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like > everyone said. :-) > > brian > > From ploopster at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 05:25:08 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:25:08 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com> Message-ID: <49B8E304.1050500@gmail.com> Gavin Thomas Nicol wrote: > Someone I know has a PDP 11/44 available.. might end up on EBay. > Apparently 2 racks pulled out in working condition, including the > following cards. > > m-7090 m 7094 m-7093 m 8743 m 8743 m 7098 m 7097 > m 7096 m 902 m 7800 m 7900 m 7902 m 7903 m 7258 > > He's looking for $750 but I'm not sure I'll have the space. What do you > think? He's looking for too much. Peace... Sridhar From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Mar 12 10:17:55 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:17:55 -0700 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Problem 1: you don't make it clear whether the VAXstations are configured with a keyboard and monitor or through a terminal, but I infer from your last bit about VT420 and VT320 that you are using serial. There is a small switch next to the LED array on the back panel that tells the VAXstation whether to use serial or keyboard/monitor. I don't remember which way is which, but try switching it the other way. :-) If the VAXstation is expecting a keyboard but doesn't have one (on its keyboard connection, not on a terminal), it will object. Problem 2: Don't be surprised, it's not their job. The point of the hobbyist license is that it is offered with no support - that's why it's free! However, the forum at openvmshobbyist.com is very helpful, as are people on comp.os.vms - and here. If you can provide a more detailed account of what isn't working, someone can help - someone like me, who has done a fair amount of installing lately. (I just restored a VAX-11/780-5 for the PDP Planet Project.) Did you successfully boot into standalone backup? From there, did you successfully restore the saveset off the OpenVMS CD? It's not like installing Windows.... -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Retep the First [parasang at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:50 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e Hi: Problem 1: I have two Vax with both with similar problems. One is a 3100 VAXstation-76 and the other is a VAX 3100 and both give a keyboard error. Both display a backwards "?" and then "VT420 Keyboard Error - 4" -- the 3100-10e shows VT320 error instead. The VAXstation has not run as yet, but I have had the 10e running in the past. Now both machines display an error. Both machines and peripherals (including the VT420 and VT320) were purchased through eBay. Problem 2: About two years ago I signed up for an openVMS licence. Since then I have been unable to get the operating system working or either Montagar or ENCOMPASS to give me little more than the time of day. It has been almost 2 years since this started and I have tried almost all that I can think of to get it settled. Hopefully you can suggest what to do -- I have gone 1 year past the licence renewal and no-one has even contacted me. Peter __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Mar 12 10:34:44 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:34:44 -0700 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: <49B8E304.1050500@gmail.com> References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com>, <49B8E304.1050500@gmail.com> Message-ID: While I agree that $750 is too much for a partial machine, I also agree with two other threads of thought expressed here. 1) eBay has distorted the market. IMHO sometimes the drive to "win" overrides common sense, and we end up with inflated prices. Moreover, eBay's many strategies to obfuscate this marketplace serve only to increase eBay's revenues - which isn't unexpected, even if it is frustrating to folks like us. I speak of the lack of price history - imagine if we had a complete history of pricing for an 11/44 - and now the concealment of bidders. I remember a time when if, for instance, Al Kossow was bidding on a document, I would walk away and let him have it rather than bid up the price. I remember another time when I was bidding on a machine and saw someone else "in the community" bid on it, too. I sent him an email saying that I was really interested in this machine because I didn't have one; he responded that he was only looking for a spare, and he stopped bidding to give me a chance (I did win it). There was a sort of "gentlemen's agreement" that is nearly impossible to respect now that we don't know who's bidding! Of course, the higher the sale price, the higher the fees eBay collects. 2) Markets change. My first two -11s were "free" in the sense that I didn't pay the former owner; I did have to rent a truck! One of those is an 11/40, which today is considered a reasonably uncommon and desirable model. By the time I realized I wasn't going to find a similar deal on a PDP-8/e/f/m, prices had risen to the point where I found myself paying around $1k for a machine. But again, there are still deals to be had, especially amongst ourselves. If Livermore wasn't so far away, "free to loving home" would have landed a NextStation in my basement.... I've occasionally sent messages to eBay sellers saying in essence, "Are you kidding?" regarding their pricing. Some reply with, "What do you think it's really worth?" Most reply with, "Too bad, that's what I want for it." Some sincerely believe their item is worth the asking price; some are hoping it is, or that someone is desperate enough to pay their ransom. That's the world we live in. Getting into a food fight between ourselves won't change that. There are alternative venues (such as Vintage Computer Marketplace), and if we patronize them they may attract the market away from eBay. Many are becoming aggravated with eBay and while it's not extremely likely that another venue will replace them anytime soon, in niche markets such as ours perhaps there is a chance for alternative markets. IMHO -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sridhar Ayengar [ploopster at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:25 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: PDP 11/44 Gavin Thomas Nicol wrote: > Someone I know has a PDP 11/44 available.. might end up on EBay. > Apparently 2 racks pulled out in working condition, including the > following cards. > > m-7090 m 7094 m-7093 m 8743 m 8743 m 7098 m 7097 > m 7096 m 902 m 7800 m 7900 m 7902 m 7903 m 7258 > > He's looking for $750 but I'm not sure I'll have the space. What do you > think? He's looking for too much. Peace... Sridhar From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Mar 12 11:10:17 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:10:17 -0700 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: no one will contact you about the license expiration, but the PAKs won't work anymore. You need to apply for a renewal - same process as when you originally signed up. Delete the old ones, or their expiration will continue to bug you. Don't ask me how I know. :-) The LICENSE utility is your friend. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian King [IanK at vulcan.com] Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:17 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e Problem 1: you don't make it clear whether the VAXstations are configured with a keyboard and monitor or through a terminal, but I infer from your last bit about VT420 and VT320 that you are using serial. There is a small switch next to the LED array on the back panel that tells the VAXstation whether to use serial or keyboard/monitor. I don't remember which way is which, but try switching it the other way. :-) If the VAXstation is expecting a keyboard but doesn't have one (on its keyboard connection, not on a terminal), it will object. Problem 2: Don't be surprised, it's not their job. The point of the hobbyist license is that it is offered with no support - that's why it's free! However, the forum at openvmshobbyist.com is very helpful, as are people on comp.os.vms - and here. If you can provide a more detailed account of what isn't working, someone can help - someone like me, who has done a fair amount of installing lately. (I just restored a VAX-11/780-5 for the PDP Planet Project.) Did you successfully boot into standalone backup? From there, did you successfully restore the saveset off the OpenVMS CD? It's not like installing Windows.... -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Retep the First [parasang at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:50 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e Hi: Problem 1: I have two Vax with both with similar problems. One is a 3100 VAXstation-76 and the other is a VAX 3100 and both give a keyboard error. Both display a backwards "?" and then "VT420 Keyboard Error - 4" -- the 3100-10e shows VT320 error instead. The VAXstation has not run as yet, but I have had the 10e running in the past. Now both machines display an error. Both machines and peripherals (including the VT420 and VT320) were purchased through eBay. Problem 2: About two years ago I signed up for an openVMS licence. Since then I have been unable to get the operating system working or either Montagar or ENCOMPASS to give me little more than the time of day. It has been almost 2 years since this started and I have tried almost all that I can think of to get it settled. Hopefully you can suggest what to do -- I have gone 1 year past the licence renewal and no-one has even contacted me. Peter __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From ray at arachelian.com Thu Mar 12 11:59:25 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:59:25 -0400 Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: References: <95994C2E-F2B7-458F-8B76-460981B3F20F@mind-to-mind.com>, <49B8E304.1050500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B93F6D.5040704@arachelian.com> Ian King wrote: > I've occasionally sent messages to eBay sellers saying in essence, "Are you kidding?" regarding their pricing. Some reply with, "What do you think it's really worth?" Most reply with, "Too bad, that's what I want for it." Some sincerely believe their item is worth the asking price; some are hoping it is, or that someone is desperate enough to pay their ransom. > And that's perfectly fine. They want too much for it, if no one's willing to pay, they'll lose money listing an unsuccessful auction. Yes, there are suckers who don't know they're getting ripped off, or don't care, but that's fine too. That's how markets work. A thing is worth what the seller and buyer agree on. Auctions are set up in the seller's favor (most of the time), so they usually get away with insane prices, but not always. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Mar 12 13:10:34 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:10:34 +0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> , Message-ID: <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 09:10 -0700, Ian King wrote: > Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: no one will contact you about the license expiration, but the PAKs won't work anymore. You need to apply for a renewal - same process as when you originally signed up. Delete the old ones, or their expiration will continue to bug you. Don't ask me how I know. :-) The LICENSE utility is your friend. -- Ian Having repeatedly tried and failed to get a hobbyist licence in the UK, for any amount of money, I've come to the conclusion that either DEC really really dislike hobbyists or they actively want you to pirate VMS. Gordon From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Mar 12 13:17:38 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:17:38 -0700 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> , <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> Message-ID: Are you unable to obtain a license through openvmshobbyist.org? > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:11 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e > > On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 09:10 -0700, Ian King wrote: > > Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: no one will contact you about > the license expiration, but the PAKs won't work anymore. You need to > apply for a renewal - same process as when you originally signed up. > Delete the old ones, or their expiration will continue to bug you. > Don't ask me how I know. :-) The LICENSE utility is your friend. -- > Ian > > Having repeatedly tried and failed to get a hobbyist licence in the UK, > for any amount of money, I've come to the conclusion that either DEC > really really dislike hobbyists or they actively want you to pirate > VMS. > > Gordon > From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 12 13:37:05 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A most satisfying project..... In-Reply-To: <49B93F6D.5040704@arachelian.com> Message-ID: <612787.20833.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all ? I just wanted share with you my most recent S-100/IEEE-696 CP/M, CDOS-816 project. I hope most of you will find the Web Page an enjoyable read. The URL is http://www.michael-george-hart.com/computerscience/imsai8080-8088.html I am still scanning my documentation into PDF, so please be patient for any documentation that is missing at this time for any particular board on the site. Michael michael.george.hart at gmail.com ? I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 12 13:37:05 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A most satisfying project..... In-Reply-To: <49B93F6D.5040704@arachelian.com> Message-ID: <612787.20833.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all ? I just wanted share with you my most recent S-100/IEEE-696 CP/M, CDOS-816 project. I hope most of you will find the Web Page an enjoyable read. The URL is http://www.michael-george-hart.com/computerscience/imsai8080-8088.html I am still scanning my documentation into PDF, so please be patient for any documentation that is missing at this time for any particular board on the site. Michael michael.george.hart at gmail.com ? I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 14:14:58 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:14:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: PDP 11/44 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 11, 9 02:29:58 pm Message-ID: > Here is another hint. A /44 isn't that collectable of a computer. It lacks I am not at all sure what makes a computer 'collectable', but anyway... > a real front panel, and it's BIG. For a Hobbyist a Q-Bus based PDP-11 makes It's not that big. The CPU is just a 10.5" rackmount box. It often came in a short rack cainet with a TU58, but there's no reason it has to be in that cabinet. > a lot more sense. A /44 like mine takes up about as much space as a washer That depeds -- a lot -- on the hobbyist. For a hardware person like me, the 11/44 (and most other older Unibus machines with the exception of the 11/24) are more interesting. I can understand how the CPU works, look at the microcode, repair the CPU to component level, and so on. And there are, IMHO, more interesting peripherals for the Unibus machines. IIRC, using standard DEC boards you can put any Q-bus peripherals on a Unius machine (using a DW11-B bus converter) but not the reverse. > > This does bring up an interesting question. What percentage of people with > PDP-11's have Unibus PDP-11's. Also of the people that do have Unibus > PDP-11's, how many have a large number of PDP-11's? I have both Unibus and Qbus macnines, I also have a fair number of 11s For the Unibus machines, IIRC, I have PDP11/45 with RK05s, RK07s, RLs, etc PDP11/44 (it's got 22 bit addressing, it's small (see above). I'd prefer an 11/70, but I've got nowhere to put one, and anyway I was never offered one. 3 off PDP11/34 PDP11/10 GT40 PDP11/24 (I was given it, it's of little real interest). Q-bus ----- At least one of the original LSI11s ,with the quad-height CPU board, etc PDP11/03 PDP11/23 A couple of MINCs SBC21 -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 14:16:54 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:16:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1236772825.18354.28.camel@homer> from "Steve Robertson" at Mar 11, 9 08:00:25 am Message-ID: > Check bitsavers... There is quite a bit of information about these > machines in the archive. Another good place to look is http://www.hpmuseum.net/ That site has scanned manuals for most older larger-than-handheld HP computers, peripherals, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 14:24:34 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:24:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: DP8350 (and DP8367) In-Reply-To: <49B83525.3050208@bitsavers.org> from "Al Kossow" at Mar 11, 9 03:03:17 pm Message-ID: > > see the thread from 2003 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/message/1057 > > looks like this was a custom for HP Well, I am not convinced it is totally custom, in that it has the DP8367 number as well as the HP1820-xxxx number (nost totally custom chips only have the latter). I can well beleive it's a custom version of a standard CRT controlelr, perhaps for a different screen format or something. Anyway, I did a little more poking isnide my HP120 today. I believe the DP8367 is closely related to the DP8350. Some of the pinouts machine up (and not just bovious ones [1]). The internal registers seem to be loaded in the same way _from the address lines_. It is connected to am 80 yte shift register chip (I forget the number, MM5035??). [1] For example, according to the HP125 boardswapper manual on hpmuseum.net, one of the output ports on the terminal processor (a Z80A) controls the 6 self-test LEDs and a line to the video controller to select 50Hz or 60Hz vertical frequency. I can find this output port (an 8 it latch) on the the the terminal PCB, the bit that would set vertical freuqencty is linked to a pin on the video controller chip, indeed on the DP8350, that pibn does select vertical frequency) Now, I can find _references_ to the DP8350 data sheet, but not the complete data sheet. Does anyone have that one? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 14:28:16 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:28:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: DP8367 In-Reply-To: from "Dave Caroline" at Mar 11, 9 10:28:31 pm Message-ID: > > annoying that they missed the part number from the bench briefs > listing HP-Bench-Briefs-1990-07-12.pdf available on > www.hparchive.com Oh, finding the HP1820-xxxx number is no problem -- it's 1820-2373. I want to know a it more about the chip -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 15:17:36 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:17:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: A little more on the HP120 keyaord interface Message-ID: As I mentioned in another thread, I spent a little time inside my HP120 today. I've had another look at the keyboard interface. Of the 6 pins on the keyboard connector : 1 is not conencted 2 are +12V and ground 2 are outputs (machine to keybaord) and 1 is an inputer (keyoard to machine) The 2 outputs are a scan clock (pulse to move to the next key in the matrix) and reset (start at the first key again). The input is, of course, to indicate if the selected key is pressed. These logic signals operate ate 12V levels It is electrically indentical to the HP150 (origianl, not 150-II) keyboard interface. To the extent you cao plug an HP150 keyboard into an Hp120 without damage (I have done this after some careful checking). It doesn't work properly because the keyboard matrix is totally differnt (so keys to not produce the characters marked on them, and worse still, some keys don't exist), but it does something. The HP150 keyboard electroncis is quite simple. It consists of 5 4000-seires CMOS chips. A 4024 counter is driven by the 2 outputs from the computer (via diode/resistor protection networks). A couple of 4028 decoders, driven by the counter, with a 4011 gate to inver the D input of one of them, scan the columns of the switch matrix. A 4051 mux, also driven by the counter, cans the rows. And the output of that is is buffered by a couple more 4011 gates and sent back to the computer. By shorting outputs of the decoders to the inputs of the mux, I managed to work out most of the HP120's keyboard matrix. I how have a choice. I either copy the HP150 scan circuit (described above) -- the chips are trivial to get -- and wire up a matrix of switches. Or I make a little interface (presumaly using a microcontroller) to like a PC keyboard to the HP120. -tony From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Mar 12 15:45:35 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:45:35 -0700 Subject: DP8350 (and DP8367) Message-ID: <49B9746F.2090908@bitsavers.org> > Now, I can find _references_ to the DP8350 data sheet, but not the > complete data sheet. Does anyone have that one? It is in the 1980 IC Master. I will email again when it is on bitsavers. From glen.slick at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 16:23:25 2009 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:23:25 -0700 Subject: DP8350 (and DP8367) In-Reply-To: <49B9746F.2090908@bitsavers.org> References: <49B9746F.2090908@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90903121423o70ed8616wf16e210c5bd9f415@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Al Kossow wrote: >> Now, I can find _references_ to the DP8350 data sheet, but not the >> complete data sheet. Does anyone have that one? > > It is in the 1980 IC Master. I will email again when it is on bitsavers. Is that one also covered in the "The CRT controller handbook" by Gerry Kane? I have a copy of that I can check later. From pontus at update.uu.se Thu Mar 12 16:26:35 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:26:35 +0100 Subject: GT40 [was: PDP 11/44] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B97E0B.5020705@update.uu.se> Tony Duell wrote: > I have both Unibus and Qbus macnines, I also have a fair number of 11s > > > > GT40 > > Ooh, they are pretty cool. I've only seen a few images of fairly poor quality of the GT40. Could you perhaps take a few pictures? (both inside and outside). I could host them, unless you want to throw them onto flickr or similar. Cheers, Pontus. From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Mar 12 16:27:04 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:27:04 -0700 Subject: DP8350 Message-ID: <49B97E28.8000208@bitsavers.org> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/national/_dataSheets/DP8350_Nov78.pdf Most parameters were in on chip ROM, which explains all the different versions From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Mar 12 16:32:36 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:32:36 -0700 Subject: GT40 [was: PDP 11/44] Message-ID: <49B97F74.6080708@bitsavers.org> http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/gt40 Hopefully, Eric's will be part of the CHM exhibit we are working on If not, we may use the VT11/VR17 that I have. From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Mar 12 16:57:04 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:57:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: A most satisfying project..... In-Reply-To: <612787.20833.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <880928.80360.qm@web23405.mail.ird.yahoo.com> That was a very interesting story. I don't think I could do any coding with someone looking over my shoulder all the time, as I'm not to good when under lots of pressure. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Thu, 12/3/09, Michael Hart wrote: From: Michael Hart Subject: A most satisfying project..... To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, cctech at classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 6:37 PM Hi all ? I just wanted share with you my most recent S-100/IEEE-696 CP/M, CDOS-816 project. I hope most of you will find the Web Page an enjoyable read. The URL is http://www.michael-george-hart.com/computerscience/imsai8080-8088.html I am still scanning my documentation into PDF, so please be patient for any documentation that is missing at this time for any particular board on the site. Michael michael.george.hart at gmail.com ? I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" From williams.dan at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 17:16:38 2009 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:16:38 +0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> Message-ID: <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> > Having repeatedly tried and failed to get a hobbyist licence in the UK, > for any amount of money, I've come to the conclusion that either DEC > really really dislike hobbyists or they actively want you to pirate VMS. > > Gordon > > I am in the UK. You need to be a member of Encompass to get the license. I joined the USA group as it is free. The UK branch costs ?50 a year for a hobby membership. Try here : https://www.connect-community.org/Membership/JoinConnect/tabid/58/Default.aspx It can take a month or so, but as soon as you get a membership number you get a license for the hobbyist website. Dan From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 12 17:40:47 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A most satisfying project..... In-Reply-To: <880928.80360.qm@web23405.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <895890.63968.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Well, relatively speaking they were children (remember freshly minted PHd's) with egos. Sometimes children like ganging upon people. Luckily I did not buckle and remained focused on the problem at hand. Again I have been around for a very long time and note that senior people interviewing you tend to have a general respect for an applicants experience and not bother other senior developers with silly issues unrelated to big picture of bringing a project to completion.At least that is what I do when I interview a senior developer/analysis. Interviewing with relatively young developers, they tend to stress their own egos and limitied design experience. Unfortunately most of the time you have to run the gauntlet before you ever get to a senior person.. Michael --- On Thu, 3/12/09, Andrew Burton wrote: From: Andrew Burton Subject: Re: A most satisfying project..... To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 5:57 PM That was a very interesting story. I don't think I could do any coding with someone looking over my shoulder all the time, as I'm not to good when under lots of pressure. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Thu, 12/3/09, Michael Hart wrote: From: Michael Hart Subject: A most satisfying project..... To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, cctech at classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 6:37 PM Hi all ? I just wanted share with you my most recent S-100/IEEE-696 CP/M, CDOS-816 project. I hope most of you will find the Web Page an enjoyable read. The URL is http://www.michael-george-hart.com/computerscience/imsai8080-8088.html I am still scanning my documentation into PDF, so please be patient for any documentation that is missing at this time for any particular board on the site. Michael michael.george.hart at gmail.com ? I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" From legalize at xmission.com Thu Mar 12 18:10:54 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:10:54 -0600 Subject: VCF West 2009 Message-ID: So did we ever learn anything about VCF West 2009? I had emailed Sellam a while back but haven't heard back. In fact, when Sellam wanted someone to rescue that Microdata Reality machine in Sandy, UT, I emailed him but didn't get a reply to that either. Was the machine rescued? This was Sellam's original message: In article , Sellam Ismail writes: > There is a Microdata Reality in Sandy, Utah that needs a new home. > This > is a large and heavy early- to mid-1970s mini in a 6 foot cabinet. > > Please contact me directly if you're interested and I'll pass along > the > contact info. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Mar 12 18:35:04 2009 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:35:04 -0700 Subject: A little more on the HP120 keyaord interface In-Reply-To: (Tony Duell's message of "Thu\, 12 Mar 2009 20\:17\:36 +0000 \(GMT\)") References: Message-ID: <200903122335.n2CNZ4Uv095571@lots.reanimators.org> Tony Duell wrote: > As I mentioned in another thread, I spent a little time inside my HP120 > today. I've had another look at the keyboard interface. I was thinking (the other day) that there was an HP terminal that was a lot like the 120. Couldn't remember the model number then, but today I think it's HP2382. Would one of those be a suitable keyboard loaner? I'm also thinking there were two keyboards that fit it, a compact keyboard and a larger keyboard. The larger keyboard would have looked like the one that fit the HP2625/HP2628 terminals. I'm not sure of electrical compatibility in any case though. It's been close to 20 years since I've seen a 120, probably closer to 25 since I actually tried to get anything done with it. It ran CP/M 2.2 and had a sort of predecessor to HP's PAM that displayed selectable applications in the on-screen function key labels, with the expectation that the user would press the function key to start the application. -Frank McConnell From onymouse at garlic.com Thu Mar 12 08:00:44 2009 From: onymouse at garlic.com (jd) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:00:44 -0700 Subject: HP120 keyoard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B9077C.8090807@garlic.com> Tony Duell ????????: > I've just picked up an HP120 (Z80 CP/M machine) on Ebay :-). The main > prolem (mentioned in the listing I might add, so I am not complaining) is > that it's missing the keyoard. > > The keyboard connector is a 6-pin telephone type socket (RJ12?). A quick > look inside (well, what did you expect) suggests the keyboard interface > is contrlled by an 8041 microcnntroller and that it works at 12V levels > (not RS232, but 0V and +12V). There are +12V and ground pins on the > keyboard socket. > > So I am looking for any/all of the following : > > 1) The correct HP keyoard (anyone know the model number?) IIRC the keyboard is the same as for the HP-150A & B. I don't recall the part number. There are two different keyboards: The original which has sticky keys and the later update which does not. The keys usually get stuck when pressed and won't go down. This makes it easy to break the spacebar and other large keys, especially if one is accustomed to typing on Teletypes and other such mechanical terminals. Silicone lube helps but no one seems to know whether or not it will cause problems. > > 2) Details of any other keyboards that can be got to work. Perhaps some other HP terminal keyboards? I do not recall any having the same connectors and keyboard layout, though. The 150C keyboard is not compatible. > > 3) Technical details of the keyboard interface. IIRC the keyboard was sent a clock and a signal was returned when a key was pressed. Which key was pressed was determined by timing. There are only about 4 or 5 14 or 16 pin DIPS in the keyboard used for scanning the matrix and sending a signal back to the MCU when a key was pressed. I thought it used +5VDC. My HP stuff is unreachable for the moment so I can't check. In case it might help, the HP150A/B tehnical manual has all the gory details. It's part number is 45611-90002. The HP120 came out just before the HP150 and they seem to have a lot of design in common. They even look alike. == jd Goto, n.: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. -- Ray Simard -- From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Thu Mar 12 18:48:58 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:48:58 -0500 Subject: PDP-11 configurations (was Re: PDP 11/44) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B99F6A.80700@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: >>On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM, James Fogg wrote: > >Yes... a common 1980s small office configuration. Pretty big for a >single-user RT-11 system of the day (I was using a single RL01 for my >OS and development environment and a single RL02 for customer data in >1986). Not so bad for a small RSX-11 or small RSTS environment (we >were using a machine with only 4 RL02s for a RSTS-based accounting >system for a multi-million-dollar company in 1984). > >>It came with two VT-100's and a LA36 DecWriter II. >> >Sounds like a small RSX-11 or small RSTS system, then, or perhaps it >was used with TSX-11. One doesn't usually see multiple terminals with >RT-11. > >>My second PDP is an 11/73 in a desk-side case (is that the microPDP-11/73?) >> >The MicroPDP machines I've seen are in a BA23 (could be racked, could >be in a desk-side pedestal), with a 1" MicroPDP nameplate near the >power switch. It's spring-loaded, so you can pull it out and turn it >90 degrees for upright or racked orientation. > > Jerome Fine replies: While I started with a BA23, there were too few slots for the development system that I wanted. So I shifted to a BA123 with 12 slots with room for 5 full height drives. Originally, I used RD53 drives, but when a number of 600 MB ESDI Hitachi drives became available, I shifted to using 3 * 600 MB with the first drive used as the development drive and the second and third drive as exact backups. By the way, as most of you know, I run only RT-11. And there are SIX terminals stacked on my rather large desk, one VT220 and 5 VT100s. I use all six terminals, one connected to the background job and the others connected to system jobs, specifically the KED editor so that I can see as many screens as possible of the same file files or multiple files in READ ONLY mode while: (a) I make modifications to a source file (b) Run the code in a newly modified source file which needs debugging. Since the RT-11 debugging program freezes every other job (which means that the other KED editing sessions are also frozen, I at least have a number of screens to enable me to check the code being tested. So while I agree that multiple terminal are probably rare with RT-11, I have almost always been involved with applications which use large number of terminals, usually with a SYSGENed version of RT-11 with multi-terminal support included. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Thu Mar 12 18:53:09 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:53:09 -0500 Subject: MicroPDP Deskside pedestal wanted In-Reply-To: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> References: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <49B9A065.1010106@compsys.to> >Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: > > I have a PDP that was pulled from a rack (of which I don't have)... > rather than > running it 'bared skin'... I'd like to find a deskside pedestal to put > it in. > > Anyone have one they care to give up/sell/trade/etc ? > > -- Curt I presume that you have a BA23 box. Please confirm. While it is unlikely, it could be a BA11 or even something else I am not familiar with. Jerome Fine From hachti at hachti.de Thu Mar 12 19:16:57 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:16:57 +0100 Subject: PDP-8 Adventure on FPP-12 - who's the "local wizard"? Message-ID: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> Hi folks, I tried to build and run adventure from Rick Murphy's website: http://www.rickmurphy.net/adventure.html I used the disk image from the page and booted my machine from it. I was able to compile and link everything by means of COMPIL.BI and LOAD.BI. When I want to start the game, I'm asked for the file locations. Then it takes a few seconds (perhaps half a minute?) until the program tells me about "Fatal error 8" - and that I should consult my "local wizard". But who's the local wizard? On SIMH it seems to work. At the moment, I would like to know if it's my machine and it's FPP-12 or the software (perhaps not expecting the presence of a real FPP-12?) which has the problem. SIMH doesn't have a FPP, so I cannot test it :-( I successfully ran maindec-12-dafpa-a-pb (FPP-12 data test) on my system. Compiling small FORTRAN IV programs und running them with the FPP attached seems to be working correctly as well. So are there any known problems? Might there be any problems? Is the adventure game tested with a real FPP-12? Does anyone know an emulator with FPP-12? My system configuration (abbreviated): * PDP-8/e * 32K memory * TD8E DECTape controller * RK8E RK05 controller * Teletype * Some serial ports for Kermit and dumprest If anyone knows anything, please let me know! It would be very good to be sure if I have a hardware problem or not. Don't want to search for a phantom problem. Best wishes, Philipp :-) From hachti at hachti.de Thu Mar 12 19:36:29 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:36:29 +0100 Subject: PDP-8 Adventure on FPP-12 - who's the "local wizard"? In-Reply-To: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> References: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> Message-ID: <49B9AA8D.5010000@hachti.de> Sorry for the message..... Just disconnected the FPP-12 - problem persists :-( But my 8/e seems to be in working condition. I have no strange behavior. Could try out some CPU maindecs (did so last year, without problems). Best wishes, Philipp From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Mar 12 19:46:30 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:46:30 -0700 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ?50? Wow, that's a chunk of change for a 'free' license. I just have to deal with spam from HP on their enterprise servers.... :-) -- Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Williams > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:17 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e > > > Having repeatedly tried and failed to get a hobbyist licence in the > UK, > > for any amount of money, I've come to the conclusion that either DEC > > really really dislike hobbyists or they actively want you to pirate > VMS. > > > > Gordon > > > > > I am in the UK. You need to be a member of Encompass to get the > license. I joined the USA group as it is free. The UK branch costs ?50 > a year for a hobby membership. > Try here : > > https://www.connect- > community.org/Membership/JoinConnect/tabid/58/Default.aspx > > It can take a month or so, but as soon as you get a membership number > you get a license for the hobbyist website. > > Dan > From rescue at hawkmountain.net Thu Mar 12 20:14:31 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:14:31 -0400 Subject: MicroPDP Deskside pedestal wanted In-Reply-To: <49B9A065.1010106@compsys.to> References: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> <49B9A065.1010106@compsys.to> Message-ID: <49B9B377.60901@hawkmountain.net> Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: > >> >> I have a PDP that was pulled from a rack (of which I don't have)... >> rather than >> running it 'bared skin'... I'd like to find a deskside pedestal to >> put it in. >> >> Anyone have one they care to give up/sell/trade/etc ? >> >> -- Curt > > I presume that you have a BA23 box. Please confirm. yes, BA23 -- Curt > > While it is unlikely, it could be a BA11 or even something else I am not > familiar with. > > Jerome Fine > From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Thu Mar 12 20:39:54 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:39:54 -0500 Subject: MicroPDP Deskside pedestal wanted In-Reply-To: <49B9B377.60901@hawkmountain.net> References: <49B889E9.3060602@hawkmountain.net> <49B9A065.1010106@compsys.to> <49B9B377.60901@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <49B9B96A.5080107@compsys.to> >Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: > yes, BA23 I have a spare box, but I am in Toronto. While they are not too heavy, it might cost more than you expect to ship. If you can't find one and want to wait until I am in the US, then e-mail me once in a while to remind me. Jerome Fine From jdbryan at acm.org Fri Mar 13 00:13:54 2009 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:13:54 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu>, , <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 11, 2009 at 21:15, Glen Slick wrote: > If the 2117F works except for microcode issues without the FPP, could > you just swap the firmware from the 2113E into the 2117F to turn it > into a working 2113E equivalent? Yes, the E and F-Series CPU boards were identical, except for the installed base set firmware. -- Dave From rick at rickmurphy.net Thu Mar 12 20:34:27 2009 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:34:27 -0400 Subject: PDP-8 Adventure on FPP-12 - who's the "local wizard"? In-Reply-To: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> References: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> Message-ID: <200903130134.n2D1YaBt016364@rickmurphy.net> At 08:16 PM 3/12/2009, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: >Hi folks, > >I tried to build and run adventure from Rick Murphy's website: >http://www.rickmurphy.net/adventure.html > >I used the disk image from the page and booted my machine from it. > >I was able to compile and link everything by means of COMPIL.BI and >LOAD.BI. >When I want to start the game, I'm asked for the file locations. Then >it takes a few seconds (perhaps half a minute?) until the program >tells me about "Fatal error 8" - and that I should consult my "local >wizard". But who's the local wizard? I may be as close as you'll get. :-) "Fatal Error 8", usually means the database is corrupt. Look at INITAD.FT for the "CALL BUG(8)" lines; This specific error unfortunately means two different things. One is triggered when the record being written to the database is past the calculated record number. (Just past label 1020, 'IF (RECORD .GT. FILSIZ) CALL BUG(8)". The other is "LOCATION HAS COND BIT SET TWICE". That's definitely something not calculating what was expected. The other is just above label 1071, "IF(BITSET(LOC,K))CALL BUG(8)". If the first is being hit, I don't understand what's happening. The latter, however, calls a function (BITSET) that's some optimized FPP code. There's a chance there's something there that works with the FRTS emulator but not with a FPP-12. >On SIMH it seems to work. Yup, since there's no FPP hardware. Unfortunately, I don't have a real machine with a FPP-12 or FPP-8A so I can't say if the code works on the real iron or not. >At the moment, I would like to know if it's my machine and it's FPP-12 >or the software (perhaps not expecting the presence of a real FPP-12?) >which has the problem. > >SIMH doesn't have a FPP, so I cannot test it :-( > >I successfully ran maindec-12-dafpa-a-pb (FPP-12 data test) on my >system. Compiling small FORTRAN IV programs und running them with the >FPP attached seems to be working correctly as well. > >So are there any known problems? >Might there be any problems? >Is the adventure game tested with a real FPP-12? >Does anyone know an emulator with FPP-12? > >My system configuration (abbreviated): > >* PDP-8/e >* 32K memory >* TD8E DECTape controller >* RK8E RK05 controller >* Teletype >* Some serial ports for Kermit and dumprest > >If anyone knows anything, please let me know! >It would be very good to be sure if I have a hardware problem or not. >Don't want to search for a phantom problem. > >Best wishes, > >Philipp :-) What you could do to start is to figure which of the two bug(8)'s you're hitting. Doing a simple edit to INITAD.FT and rebuilding will tell me that, then we can go from there. The first one (at label 1020) should have been a call to BUG(2). Another thing you can do is to try it with the FPP-12 disabled. To disable the FPP, change FRTS location 12621 from 6555 to 7200, then try running your ADVENT.LD. If that fixes it, it's pretty strong indication that the FPP isn't matching the built-in emulator. That doesn't mean the FPP is broken, unfortunately. I'd like to troubleshoot if possible - send me private e-mail and we can try to discuss it. -Rick From rick at rickmurphy.net Thu Mar 12 20:37:48 2009 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:37:48 -0400 Subject: PDP-8 Adventure on FPP-12 - who's the "local wizard"? In-Reply-To: <49B9AA8D.5010000@hachti.de> References: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> <49B9AA8D.5010000@hachti.de> Message-ID: <200903130137.n2D1bvWT001482@rickmurphy.net> At 08:36 PM 3/12/2009, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: >Sorry for the message..... > >Just disconnected the FPP-12 - problem persists :-( OK, well, that makes my last message less interesting. >But my 8/e seems to be in working condition. I have no strange behavior. >Could try out some CPU maindecs (did so last year, without problems). Do you have an EAE or any other funky stuff? Are you using the TD8E rom with your TD8E? What devices are you using for running ADVENT? If you have too many handlers loaded, it may be falling over itself running out of memory. -Rick From dm561 at torfree.net Fri Mar 13 04:05:32 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:05:32 -0500 Subject: DP8350 (and DP8367) Message-ID: <01C9A390.F63BC4A0@host-208-72-122-21.dyn.295.ca> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:45:35 -0700 From: Al Kossow Subject: Re: DP8350 (and DP8367) >> Now, I can find _references_ to the DP8350 data sheet, but not the >> complete data sheet. Does anyone have that one? >It is in the 1980 IC Master. I will email again when it is on bitsavers. -- It's also in the 1980 National Interface Databook; actually the DP8350 'series', but only the 8350, 8352 and 8353 are covered. As Al says, they're pretty well the same chips electrically but with different display parameters. mike From rodsmallwood at btconnect.com Fri Mar 13 09:05:13 2009 From: rodsmallwood at btconnect.com (Rod Smallwood) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:05:13 -0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5E6A0E01D0C043ACB58715459E423966@EDIConsultingLtd.local> For DEC Its HPUG (HP User Group) in the UK as they are the successors to DECUS. www.hpug.org.uk admin at hpug.org.uk. Then go to www.montagar.com/hobbyist to get licenses for VMS/VAX or VMS/Alpha. Rod (Restores Old Dec) Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Williams Sent: 12 March 2009 22:17 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e > Having repeatedly tried and failed to get a hobbyist licence in the UK, > for any amount of money, I've come to the conclusion that either DEC > really really dislike hobbyists or they actively want you to pirate VMS. > > Gordon > > I am in the UK. You need to be a member of Encompass to get the license. I joined the USA group as it is free. The UK branch costs ?50 a year for a hobby membership. Try here : https://www.connect-community.org/Membership/JoinConnect/tabid/58/Default.as px It can take a month or so, but as soon as you get a membership number you get a license for the hobbyist website. Dan From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Mar 13 09:40:31 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:40:31 +0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <5E6A0E01D0C043ACB58715459E423966@EDIConsultingLtd.local> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> <5E6A0E01D0C043ACB58715459E423966@EDIConsultingLtd.local> Message-ID: <1236955232.15659.9.camel@elric> On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 14:05 +0000, Rod Smallwood wrote: > For DEC Its HPUG (HP User Group) in the UK as they are the successors to > DECUS. > www.hpug.org.uk > admin at hpug.org.uk. > > Then go to www.montagar.com/hobbyist to get licenses for VMS/VAX or > VMS/Alpha. > Yeah. I'm really going to fork out ?200 per year for HPUG membership, just to get a "free" software licence, even if they bothered to reply to emails. HPUG have *nothing* to offer me. Gordon From hachti at hachti.de Fri Mar 13 09:51:53 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:51:53 +0100 Subject: PDP-8 Adventure on FPP-12 - who's the "local wizard"? In-Reply-To: <200903130137.n2D1bvWT001482@rickmurphy.net> References: <49B9A5F9.30200@hachti.de> <49B9AA8D.5010000@hachti.de> <200903130137.n2D1bvWT001482@rickmurphy.net> Message-ID: <49BA7309.4020803@hachti.de> I've been tooo stupid... My first message is still valid, disconnecting the FPP makes the error go away. (It was my fault when I thought the error persists without FPP!). Ph From julian at jnt.me.uk Fri Mar 13 09:59:24 2009 From: julian at jnt.me.uk (Julian) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:59:24 +0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <1236955232.15659.9.camel@elric> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> <5E6A0E01D0C043ACB58715459E423966@EDIConsultingLtd.local> <1236955232.15659.9.camel@elric> Message-ID: <49BA74CC.6060105@jnt.me.uk> Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: > On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 14:05 +0000, Rod Smallwood wrote: > >> For DEC Its HPUG (HP User Group) in the UK as they are the successors to >> DECUS. >> www.hpug.org.uk >> admin at hpug.org.uk. >> >> Then go to www.montagar.com/hobbyist to get licenses for VMS/VAX or >> VMS/Alpha. >> >> > > Yeah. I'm really going to fork out ?200 per year for HPUG membership, > just to get a "free" software licence, even if they bothered to reply to > emails. HPUG have *nothing* to offer me. > > I had similar experiences about two or three years ago. The US chapter wouldn't accept me as I was in the UK and the UK chapter wouldn't offer the free associate membership. Tried again a few months ago - apparently you can register with 'Connect' for free, although I couldn't find the free option at the time and ended up paying 35 euros. You live and learn... Julian. From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Fri Mar 13 10:20:20 2009 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:20:20 +0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <49BA74CC.6060105@jnt.me.uk> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> <5E6A0E01D0C043ACB58715459E423966@EDIConsultingLtd.local> <1236955232.15659.9.camel@elric> <49BA74CC.6060105@jnt.me.uk> Message-ID: <49BA79B4.8040902@wickensonline.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Julian wrote: > Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: >> On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 14:05 +0000, Rod Smallwood wrote: >> >>> For DEC Its HPUG (HP User Group) in the UK as they are the successors to >>> DECUS. >>> www.hpug.org.uk >>> admin at hpug.org.uk. >>> >>> Then go to www.montagar.com/hobbyist to get licenses for VMS/VAX or >>> VMS/Alpha. >>> >>> >> >> Yeah. I'm really going to fork out ?200 per year for HPUG membership, >> just to get a "free" software licence, even if they bothered to reply to >> emails. HPUG have *nothing* to offer me. >> >> > I had similar experiences about two or three years ago. The US chapter > wouldn't accept me as I was in the UK and the UK chapter wouldn't offer > the free associate membership. > Tried again a few months ago - apparently you can register with > 'Connect' for free, although I couldn't find the free option at the time > and ended up paying 35 euros. You live and learn... > > Julian. > > Good news is that once you've got a number they are not expired in the licensing system, so you only technically have to subscribe once. Mark. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkm6ebQACgkQR0vMj/mgdjadXACgzY8VG0hZbxehIDhVT+nv/oTC K1AAoMm9F67STZpD3HxJnPEMQfFmOq01 =wydU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brian at quarterbyte.com Fri Mar 13 11:45:17 2009 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:45:17 -0700 Subject: Fox electronics Message-ID: <49BA2B2D.29982.7D12073@brian.quarterbyte.com> Hi all Anyone have any experience with or know about Fox Electronics in San Jose (and/or Hayward) CA? I just saw their site and I'd never heard of them before. Their web site is pretty disorganized, lots of broken links, formatting problems and missing images. They seem to be an IC recycler/scapper. Anybody know if they have good stuff of interest to retro-geeks? Brian From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 11:54:58 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:54:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. Message-ID: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> I apologies for the extremely off-topic post, but knowing how people here tend to be packrats... :) .. and generally nice... I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? I'm in the New Haven CT area, and don't have cash available... Yeah, like I said, it's a long shot of a request. Thanks for humoring me. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Mar 13 12:05:34 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:05:34 -0700 Subject: Fox electronics Message-ID: <49BA925E.2060504@bitsavers.org> > Anyone have any experience with or know about Fox Electronics > in San Jose Yup, they've been around for a LONG time, though never dealing in retail when I knew them. I had heard that Bob Fox had a serious car accident years ago, I don't know if his brother runs the place now. As you say, they are scrappers /chip pullers. When I was going over there, they had a place on Zanker, a couple of blocks down from where Excess Solutions was. There are lots of scrappers /chip pullers around still in the valley. Most deal only wholesale (ever wonder where Halted gets there stuff?) or just on eBay and really don't like to get walk-in customers. From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Fri Mar 13 12:09:05 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:09:05 +0100 Subject: Fox electronics In-Reply-To: <49BA2B2D.29982.7D12073@brian.quarterbyte.com> References: <49BA2B2D.29982.7D12073@brian.quarterbyte.com> Message-ID: I got a virus warning on their site. Last update is from 2004 -Rik > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Brian Knittel > Verzonden: vrijdag 13 maart 2009 17:45 > Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: Fox electronics > > Hi all > > Anyone have any experience with or know about Fox Electronics > in San Jose (and/or Hayward) CA? I just saw their site and > I'd never heard of them before. Their web site is pretty > disorganized, lots of broken links, formatting problems and > missing images. They seem to be an IC recycler/scapper. > Anybody know if they have good stuff of interest to retro-geeks? > > Brian > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 13:30:51 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:30:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: HP120 keyoard In-Reply-To: <49B9077C.8090807@garlic.com> from "jd" at Mar 12, 9 06:00:44 am Message-ID: > > 1) The correct HP keyoard (anyone know the model number?) > > IIRC the keyboard is the same as for the HP-150A & B. I don't recall See my other message. The electrical interface is the same as on the HP150, but the keyboard matrix is wired differently. So you can plug an HP150 keyoard in, but the keys don't do what you expect. Worse than that, at least one of the function keys is unavailable. Some more thoughts on this -- mine is a UK layout HP150 keyboard, and thus has the ID diode fitted. I suspect the 120 noticed this (it's about the only way it could stop giving the 'check keyboard' message. I also suspect the ID diode(s) are different for the HP120 -- I will have to check some mpre. > the part number. There are two different keyboards: The original which > has sticky keys and the later update which does not. The keys usually > get stuck when pressed and won't go down. This makes it easy to break I don't know which I have. They seem to work OK, though. The mechncial constuction is very like an HP46020 (not 46021) keyboard. > > 3) Technical details of the keyboard interface. > > IIRC the keyboard was sent a clock and a signal was returned when a There';s also a reset line. which clears the scan counter (inside the keyboard) to start a scan of the keys. > key was pressed. Which key was pressed was determined by timing. There > are only about 4 or 5 14 or 16 pin DIPS in the keyboard used for > scanning the matrix and sending a signal back to the MCU when a key > was pressed. Sure. I can understand how that works > > I thought it used +5VDC. My HP stuff is unreachable for the moment so > I can't check. Well, I might not know much about computers, but I think I can use a votlmeter :-). More seriously, the are labelled votlage test points in the HP120 (and I've checked them), the +12V one is wired to a pin on the keyoard socket. And the signals to the keyboard are driven in the HP120 using 7407 drivers pulled up to the 12V line. > > In case it might help, the HP150A/B tehnical manual has all the gory > details. It's part number is 45611-90002. The HP120 came out just Do you have any idea how difficult that manual is to find? It's not on the web AFAIK. Fortunately it is on my bookshelf (along with the HP150-II updates). Once I relaised the HP120 interface was similar to that in the HP150, I got a lot of clues from that manual > before the HP150 and they seem to have a lot of design in common. They > even look alike. Hmm.. The monitor PCB ('sweep board' in HP's terminology is, I think, identical). The PSU is very similar (my HP150s have Panasonic PSUs, the Hp120 has a Boschert, I am not sure if the characteristics are the same). The logic oards are very different, of course. The HP120 is also logically very similar to the HP125 (older CP/M machine in the 'ET head' case (like an HP262x terminal)). The boardswapper manual for that is on hpmuseum.net, and has some useful information in it (like memory and I/O maps for the 2 processors). The HP120 case is not identical to the HP150, in that the latter has a larger top case to take the optional thermal printer. The HP150 has a little interface circuit, mostly on the backplane PCB with a 20 pin conenctor. There's als a 14 pin connector on the PSU board giving a 12V supply. These are combined into a 34 wire cable that plugs into the HP2674 (IIRC) thermal printer chassis. Now, on the HP120, the connectors are there (20 pin on the backplane, 14 pin on the PSU). Ther'es even a latch chip on the backplane to send the data to the printer -- this chip has no other use as far as I can see. But of course the cable isn't fitted and there;s no place to mount the printer. Still, I am going to investiage theis further sometime. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 13:32:30 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:32:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: DP8350 (and DP8367) In-Reply-To: <49B9746F.2090908@bitsavers.org> from "Al Kossow" at Mar 12, 9 01:45:35 pm Message-ID: > > > Now, I can find _references_ to the DP8350 data sheet, but not the > > complete data sheet. Does anyone have that one? > > It is in the 1980 IC Master. I will email again when it is on bitsavers. Thanks a lot, I've seen it now, and it certainly answers some of my questions :-). It appears from the data sheet that many of the display parameters are set by mask-programmed ROMs, which would explain the custom HP version. Pity there was never an EPROM version... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 13:37:34 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: A little more on the HP120 keyaord interface In-Reply-To: <200903122335.n2CNZ4Uv095571@lots.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Mar 12, 9 04:35:04 pm Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > As I mentioned in another thread, I spent a little time inside my HP120 > > today. I've had another look at the keyboard interface. > > I was thinking (the other day) that there was an HP terminal that was > a lot like the 120. Couldn't remember the model number then, but > today I think it's HP2382. Would one of those be a suitable keyboard > loaner? I thin kit is the HP2382 -- there's a picture on hpmuseum.net. Alas no manuals for it there (not even a user manual), so I have no idea if the keyboard could be used. Maybe it's like the HP150 keyoard, it'll plug in, but the keys do the wrong things. -tony From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Mar 13 13:47:54 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:47:54 +0000 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 12:54 -0400, Dave Woyciesjes wrote: > I apologies for the extremely off-topic post, but knowing how people > here tend to be packrats... :) .. and generally nice... > > I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does > anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? I'm in the New Haven > CT area, and don't have cash available... > > Yeah, like I said, it's a long shot of a request. Thanks for humoring me. > It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years old. I'd say it's pretty much on-topic by now ;-) Gordon From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 14:38:05 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:38:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> Message-ID: <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: > On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 12:54 -0400, Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >> I apologies for the extremely off-topic post, but knowing how people >> here tend to be packrats... :) .. and generally nice... >> >> I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does >> anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? I'm in the New Haven >> CT area, and don't have cash available... >> >> Yeah, like I said, it's a long shot of a request. Thanks for humoring me. >> > > It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years > old. I'd say it's pretty much on-topic by now ;-) > > Gordon > > Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From sellam at vintagetech.com Fri Mar 13 16:22:43 2009 From: sellam at vintagetech.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: VCF West 2009 Message-ID: > So did we ever learn anything about VCF West 2009? > > I had emailed Sellam a while back but haven't heard back. > > In fact, when Sellam wanted someone to rescue that Microdata Reality > machine in Sandy, UT, I emailed him but didn't get a reply to that > either. Was the machine rescued? This was Sellam's original message: Hi Richard and Everyone. First, apologies to everyone to whom I'm currently obligated in some way. Things have been hectic for me for quite some time. The economic collapse has been particularly burdensome on my end, so I'm dealing with several major issues. On top of that I broke my ankle in a fall a few weeks ago. I just had minor surgery yesterday to remove some bone fragments. I'm trying to take advantage of the situation as best I can to use the time to catch up on things I've put off for too long. Regarding the VCF (the main west coast event) it will PROBABLY be back this year, as planned. I say PROBABLY in caps because I'm of the economic school of theory that says we are not coming out of this one as we went in, so I don't know what to expect by the time the VCF usually rolls around. All I can promise is to just wait for the announcement if there's a feasible possibility of pulling off an event. As you all know, there was no VCF (west) in 2008. Perhaps a (brief) explanation is in order. In 2007, at the milestone capping VCF X event, I had made it clear to anyone who asked that I was planning to take a break from the VCF for 2008. Things were getting tougher and I knew that an economic collapse was coming. I also was very worn out from ten years of producing the VCF (not to mention my normal work) and looked forward to a year without the slow build of pressure that occurs in the lead up to each VCF event. Every year it became harder and harder to get going on the event, and so I knew a break was needed. And of course, right on schedule the economy collapsed. The VCF would have been right in the middle of it, so my prescience was vindicated. Do know that the regional events are all still on schedule, including a new South event in Irving, Texas tomorrow: http://www.vintage.org/2009/lite/ This is a "VCF Lite", not a full-blown event, but Gil Carrick (the organizer) will be expanding it to a full VCF event next year. VCF Europa 10.0 is on schedule for May 1-3 (a 3-day event!) in Munich, Germany: http://vcfe.org/ VCF Midwest in its new Chicago location is on track, but no announcement has been made yet. And VCF East has been scheduled for September 12-13 at the usual location in Wall, NJ (InfoAge Science Center). As far as the Microdata Reality, I have no good excuse for not having gotten back to the folks who inquired, other than laziness and a sense of being overwhelmed. I just sent out respones to those who inquiried, so thanks for the nudge. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 16:29:55 2009 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:29:55 -0500 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >> It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years >> old. > > Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. What, it uses an Alpha CPU, not MIPS? ;) From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 16:49:22 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:49:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49BAD4E2.4020509@sbcglobal.net> Jules Richardson wrote: > Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >>> It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years >>> old. >> >> Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. > > What, it uses an Alpha CPU, not MIPS? ;) > > > It must! Cool, I can load OS/2 on it! -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From sellam at vintagetech.com Fri Mar 13 16:44:32 2009 From: sellam at vintagetech.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fox electronics Message-ID: Hi Brian. I've dealt with Fox Electronics on several occasions. They are primarily a chip recycler but also recycle other computer components such as hard drives and memory. I know Brad Fox (co-owner) and he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. I sold him several batches of scrap circuit boards from my electronics recycling business over the past few years, plus other miscellaneous e-waste. One time I was there and he had a Terminator 2 arcade game that he gave me (which I recently traded for a Super Off-Road :) They used to be in San Jose but they moved their facility to Hayward. I don't know that they'd necessarily have anything in the way of retrocomputers, but it doesn't hurt to call and ask. There are so many electroncis recyclers now, especially in the Bay Area but also all over California, that most classic stuff that's still out there probably goes to scrap. My business occasionally gets some nice old iron, but definitely the bulk of it (99+%) is modern computer crap. Hitting these guys up to come out and look at their stuff will be a mixed bag. The smaller guys will, most of which are little one or two man shops, will probably welcome you, but the bigger operations probably won't unless you approach them more formally and explain your motives. Most of them are in it to convert electronics to scrap for pennies by the pound, and wouldn't know how to identify a vintage IBM from a modern one. However, if you give them model numbers, photos, etc. and specify a price over scrap, most of them would probably jump at the chance to make more money by selling the thing to you whole rather than put the labor into tearing it down to sell as scrap. With commodity prices at their current lows, it wouldn't take much to beat scrap values, with the exception being computers with boards that have heavy gold plating. Circuit boards are currently fetching around maybe $1.70-$2.00/pound, so even old HP gear can be had for very reasonable prices if you make an offer too good to refuse. Let's say a rack of HP 1000 equipment weights 500 pounds, perhaps 75 of which is circuit boards. Offer them $200 for it and they'll probably ask you if they can load it for you. Good hunting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From toby at coreware.co.uk Fri Mar 13 17:35:54 2009 From: toby at coreware.co.uk (Tobias Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:35:54 +0000 Subject: Creating boot disks for a DECMate III Message-ID: <1236983754.12353.2.camel@spasmo> I've recently got hold of a pair of DECMate IIIs and would like to get them up and running with OS/278. Unfortunately they didn't come with any media so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a site that has some suitable boot images that I can copy onto 5.25" floppies with PUTR I've found some images on sunsite and update.uu.se however these are in teledisk format. Is it possible to turn these back into a straight physical image suitable for use with PUTR? Thanks, Toby -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Fri Mar 13 17:54:05 2009 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:54:05 -0000 Subject: More surplus stuff In-Reply-To: <3918947DA15444F7A94DAD2D362340DF@XPBOX> References: <3918947DA15444F7A94DAD2D362340DF@XPBOX> Message-ID: <008a01c9a42e$9d6ee070$d84ca150$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> Jim, I don't really have anything that you want, but I am looking for a small item you may be able to help me with. I recently bought a MicroVAX II and then bought a DEQNA for it. I have yet to power them on (you may have seen a thread of mine on the PSU problem I have been having). The thing I don't have is the cabinet kit for the DEQNA. I wonder if you have one, or even just the cable from the DEQNA to an AUI connector, basically anything that would let me connect the DEQNA to the network. By the way I am in the UK too, Stockport to be precise. Regards Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Beacon > Sent: 09 March 2009 19:47 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: More surplus stuff > > Should have said - this stuff is in the UK. > > Jim. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Beacon" > To: "Classic computer list" > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:31 PM > Subject: More surplus stuff > > > Hi All, > > more surplus stuff, this is for collection only! > > A number of PDP 11/73 systems. These systems consist of a rackmount > BA23 > box containing the standard PSU, processor, memory, two DEQNA and an > Emulex > serial port controller. They have no disk drive or controller - they > net > booted RSX11. Most of them have front panels, and I have some sets of > rack > mount rails (panels and rails only available with complete system). I > probably have twelve systems available. > > Three Videcom terminals - unsure of the model number, but a fairly > standard > ASCII terminal. > > In exchange, I'm looking for some or all of the following: > > Tektronix terminal (4010 or similar) > uVAX 1 or 2 cards (I have more of the BA23 boxes). > PDP11/93 processor. > PDP11/24 > PDP 11/04 > PDP8A (well, we live in hope....) > > Thanks > > Jim. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1991 - Release Date: > 03/09/09 > 07:14:00 From toby at coreware.co.uk Fri Mar 13 18:10:42 2009 From: toby at coreware.co.uk (Tobias Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 23:10:42 +0000 Subject: More surplus stuff In-Reply-To: <008a01c9a42e$9d6ee070$d84ca150$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> References: <3918947DA15444F7A94DAD2D362340DF@XPBOX> <008a01c9a42e$9d6ee070$d84ca150$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1236985842.12353.5.camel@spasmo> Hi Robert, I can probably provide you with the DEQNA->AUI cabling. I have a box full of them. I'm also in he UK. Contact me off list and I'll get one in the post. Toby On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 22:54 +0000, Robert Jarratt wrote: > Jim, > > I don't really have anything that you want, but I am looking for a small > item you may be able to help me with. I recently bought a MicroVAX II and > then bought a DEQNA for it. I have yet to power them on (you may have seen a > thread of mine on the PSU problem I have been having). The thing I don't > have is the cabinet kit for the DEQNA. I wonder if you have one, or even > just the cable from the DEQNA to an AUI connector, basically anything that > would let me connect the DEQNA to the network. By the way I am in the UK > too, Stockport to be precise. > > Regards > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Beacon > > Sent: 09 March 2009 19:47 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: More surplus stuff > > > > Should have said - this stuff is in the UK. > > > > Jim. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Beacon" > > To: "Classic computer list" > > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:31 PM > > Subject: More surplus stuff > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > more surplus stuff, this is for collection only! > > > > A number of PDP 11/73 systems. These systems consist of a rackmount > > BA23 > > box containing the standard PSU, processor, memory, two DEQNA and an > > Emulex > > serial port controller. They have no disk drive or controller - they > > net > > booted RSX11. Most of them have front panels, and I have some sets of > > rack > > mount rails (panels and rails only available with complete system). I > > probably have twelve systems available. > > > > Three Videcom terminals - unsure of the model number, but a fairly > > standard > > ASCII terminal. > > > > In exchange, I'm looking for some or all of the following: > > > > Tektronix terminal (4010 or similar) > > uVAX 1 or 2 cards (I have more of the BA23 boxes). > > PDP11/93 processor. > > PDP11/24 > > PDP 11/04 > > PDP8A (well, we live in hope....) > > > > Thanks > > > > Jim. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1991 - Release Date: > > 03/09/09 > > 07:14:00 > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 18:12:56 2009 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:12:56 -0500 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BAD4E2.4020509@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> <49BAD4E2.4020509@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <49BAE878.4090508@gmail.com> Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >>> Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. >> >> What, it uses an Alpha CPU, not MIPS? ;) >> > It must! Cool, I can load OS/2 on it! Ha ha! This is where we start an "OS/2 for the PSOne" rumour to rival the "OS/2 for the PDP-11" one from a while back... From legalize at xmission.com Fri Mar 13 18:16:35 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:16:35 -0600 Subject: VCF Utah (was: VCF West 2009) In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:22:43 -0700. Message-ID: Hey Sellam, I understand both the sentiments and the practical realities you expressed in your message. Organizing these events is a lot of hard work and is generally a thankless job. If there is interest in an "intermountain" (UT, CO, ID, NV, NM, AZ -- OR/WA/CA if you want to really travel) VCF, I think I could put something together. It wouldn't be fancy, but I think it would be fun. Any interested parties, please respond either to the list or to me personally. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 18:35:06 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:35:06 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BAE878.4090508@gmail.com> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> <49BAD4E2.4020509@sbcglobal.net> <49BAE878.4090508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49BAEDAA.9020500@sbcglobal.net> Jules Richardson wrote: > Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >>>> Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. >>> >>> What, it uses an Alpha CPU, not MIPS? ;) >>> >> It must! Cool, I can load OS/2 on it! > > Ha ha! This is where we start an "OS/2 for the PSOne" rumour to rival > the "OS/2 for the PDP-11" one from a while back... > Rumor? Who said anything about a rumor? ;) Heh heh heh... I can be a bastard sometimes... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From brianlanning at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 19:29:41 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:29:41 -0500 Subject: Amazed by prices Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> ebay: 320349058642 I'm sure it's a collector's item. But this stuff blows my mind. I had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain japanese company. :-( brian From james at jdfogg.com Fri Mar 13 19:57:42 2009 From: james at jdfogg.com (James Fogg) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Amazed by prices In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4574.192.168.99.142.1236992262.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> > ebay: 320349058642 > > I'm sure it's a collector's item. But this stuff blows my mind. I > had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed > to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white > computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain > japanese company. :-( I need to watch that auction since I have one of these with the monitor and keyboard and I could use the money. -- James - Certified autodidactic polymath and proud of it! From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Mar 13 20:08:05 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:08:05 -0700 Subject: Amazed by prices Message-ID: <49BB0375.8050207@bitsavers.org> > ebay: 320349058642 > I'm sure it's a collector's item. But this stuff blows my mind. I > had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed > to say that I ditched long ago The auction is for a very clean monochrome original 5150 PC with every bit of verison 1 software. My bets are it will go for well over the $1200 start. -- FWIW, we were surprised to discover that no one at CHM had never bothered to aquire a 5170 (PC-AT) or RT/PC. Now, I'm trying to find clean original IBM 5 1/4" inch half-height drives for the 5170 we got, and the correct vintage keyboard. From rescue at hawkmountain.net Fri Mar 13 20:24:42 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:24:42 -0400 Subject: Amazed by prices In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49BB075A.6010003@hawkmountain.net> Brian Lanning wrote: > ebay: 320349058642 > > I'm sure it's a collector's item. But this stuff blows my mind. I > had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed > to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white > computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain > japanese company. :-( > > brian > > Re: amazed by prices... how about an original game of M.U.L.E. for the Atari 8 bits on ebay for $300 opening bid with a $389.00 by it now... with free shipping.... :-) The Electronic Arts original folder was present of course... Has anyone ever seen anyone in ebay in their right mind (or not) pay that kind of price for an Original Electronic Arts game for the Atari or C64. (This brings back memories of the planet Irata.... a friend with a C64 who had the game was upset when I pointed out what Irata spelled backwards .... heh !) -- Curt From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 13 21:26:51 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:26:51 -0800 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> Message-ID: At 4:29 PM -0500 3/13/09, Jules Richardson wrote: >Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >>>It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years >>>old. >> >>Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. > >What, it uses an Alpha CPU, not MIPS? ;) It is a MIPS R3000A CPU. The Playstation was originally released in December of '94 in Japan. It was discontinued in March 2006. I think the real question would be which model and will that effect it being on topic? Since you say PSOne, it sounds like you have a late-model Playstation that was released after the PS2 came out. My Playstation is over 10 years old now. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Mar 13 20:48:36 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Amazed by prices In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> from Brian Lanning at "Mar 13, 9 07:29:41 pm" Message-ID: <200903140148.n2E1madg016464@floodgap.com> > ebay: 320349058642 > > I'm sure it's a collector's item. But this stuff blows my mind. I > had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed > to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white > computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain > japanese company. :-( Okay, you got me. What was the computer/console/company? -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- de Gaultier --- From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 22:08:16 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 23:08:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49BB1FA0.8020901@sbcglobal.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: > At 4:29 PM -0500 3/13/09, Jules Richardson wrote: >> Dave Woyciesjes wrote: >>>> It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years >>>> old. >>> >>> Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. >> >> What, it uses an Alpha CPU, not MIPS? ;) > > It is a MIPS R3000A CPU. The Playstation was originally released in > December of '94 in Japan. It was discontinued in March 2006. > > I think the real question would be which model and will that effect it > being on topic? Since you say PSOne, it sounds like you have a > late-model Playstation that was released after the PS2 came out. My > Playstation is over 10 years old now. > > Zane > > > I don't have it here, but it's the little white one. Not the Playstation, but the PSOne. IIRC, many people incorrectly refer to the original Playstation as the Playstation One, or PS1... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 13 23:29:02 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:29:02 -0800 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BB1FA0.8020901@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> <49BAD053.2020508@gmail.com> <49BB1FA0.8020901@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: At 11:08 PM -0400 3/13/09, Dave Woyciesjes wrote: > I don't have it here, but it's the little white one. Not the >Playstation, but the PSOne. IIRC, many people incorrectly refer to >the original Playstation as the Playstation One, or PS1... IIRC, that one wasn't released until after the PS2 came out. They were dirt cheap, and targeted at people who didn't already have a Playstation and didn't want to spend $300 on a PS2. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From brianlanning at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 22:56:56 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:56:56 -0500 Subject: Amazed by prices In-Reply-To: <200903140148.n2E1madg016464@floodgap.com> References: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> <200903140148.n2E1madg016464@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903132056j4c214cc1q56580a9e30014466@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> I'm sure it's a collector's item. ?But this stuff blows my mind. ?I >> had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed >> to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white >> computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain >> japanese company. :-( > > Okay, you got me. What was the computer/console/company? http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=517 Bought by me when I lived in japan. I had about 10 games and the keyboard and family basic cartridge with matching tape drive. All in pristine condition, all in the box. Shipped it back to LA from japan, then sold it in a garage sale a few years later with all sorts of things I wish I still had. :-( brian From brianlanning at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 23:19:01 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 23:19:01 -0500 Subject: Amazed by prices In-Reply-To: <49BB0375.8050207@bitsavers.org> References: <49BB0375.8050207@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903132119x56304fe8yc4f8a438ab8c08e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Al Kossow wrote: >> ebay: ? 320349058642 > The auction is for a very clean monochrome original 5150 PC with every bit > of verison 1 software. > > My bets are it will go for well over the $1200 start. I agree. He's also saying on the auction page that one like it went for about $4000 earlier this month. > FWIW, we were surprised to discover that no one at CHM had never bothered > to aquire a 5170 (PC-AT) or RT/PC. > > Now, I'm trying to find clean original IBM 5 1/4" inch half-height drives > for the 5170 we got, and the correct vintage keyboard. I'd like to have a 5150 with the matching expansion chassis (5151?) and a 5170 also. I've also thought about picking up an original case with dead electronics so I can hack a modern PC into one of those two cases. Have to find a way to keep that giant red power switch. Should go nicely with the model M I'm typing on now. :-) Man I really hated that high persistence green monochrome monitor when I had it, longing for the IBM CGA monitor instead or at least a hercules graphics card. Now I'd love to have one again. Part of me also regretted opting for a 5150 instead of an apple iie like all my friends had. Maybe now I can end up with both (but not at $4000, lol). brian From winniezj at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 09:36:00 2009 From: winniezj at gmail.com (winniezj) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:36:00 +0800 Subject: looking for HP1650A boot disk image Message-ID: <200903132235580465797@gmail.com> Hello, I have a HP 1650A but no boot disk. I just search on web and get you mail about 1650A boot disk. Do you still have the boot disk of 1650A version 1.xx image. I would appreciate for help here. Thank you. -------------- winniezj 2009-03-13 From mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG Fri Mar 13 13:09:57 2009 From: mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG (der Mouse) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does > anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? I dunno if it'll help, but in my experience PS2 controllers and cables work with the PS and PSone. I may have something I can pop in the post to you; I'll have a look-see. But probably not before Tuesday. In an attempt to keep this at least slightly on-topic, has anyone else played with interfacing PS/PS2 stuff to general-purpose computers? I did a little of that a few years back and would like to resurrect the project.... /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG Fri Mar 13 14:42:37 2009 From: mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG (der Mouse) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <1236970074.15659.11.camel@elric> <49BAB61D.1040807@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200903131944.PAA14268@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> >>> I was given a PSOne game console recently. >> It's an interesting little MIPS-based machine, *well* over ten years >> old. > Are you sure? The sticker on the bottom says Dec 2000. I suspect this is due to confusion between the original PlayStation (which _is_ pretty old) and the PSone (which is much more recent in terms of manufacture but of course basically the same as the PlayStation in terms of architecture). I've got one of each, though I'm not sure where my PSone has hidden itself these days. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Mar 14 03:02:47 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 04:02:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Message-ID: <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: Re: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. >> I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does >> anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? > > I dunno if it'll help, but in my experience PS2 controllers and cables > work with the PS and PSone. > > I may have something I can pop in the post to you; I'll have a > look-see. But probably not before Tuesday. > > In an attempt to keep this at least slightly on-topic, has anyone else > played with interfacing PS/PS2 stuff to general-purpose computers? I > did a little of that a few years back and would like to resurrect the > project.... > > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B Quite a few people used the PSone LCD panels to make other portable machines and other stuff like that. The only Playstation I have is one of the original 1001 models that was modded. Know of anybody that ever made use of the serial and parallel ports on the original PS1's? From christian_liendo at yahoo.com Sat Mar 14 07:14:33 2009 From: christian_liendo at yahoo.com (Christian Liendo) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 05:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Amazed by prices Message-ID: <820396.73631.qm@web112205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have one with the keyboard, monitor & printer.. No so clean tough... But yea that's REALLY high. --- On Fri, 3/13/09, James Fogg wrote: From: James Fogg Subject: Re: Amazed by prices To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 8:57 PM > ebay:???320349058642 > > I'm sure it's a collector's item.? But this stuff blows my mind.? I > had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed > to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white > computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain > japanese company. :-( I need to watch that auction since I have one of these with the monitor and keyboard and I could use the money. -- James - Certified autodidactic polymath and proud of it! From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Sat Mar 14 08:18:28 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:18:28 +0000 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Message-ID: <1237036708.19405.18.camel@elric> On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 14:09 -0400, der Mouse wrote: > In an attempt to keep this at least slightly on-topic, has anyone else > played with interfacing PS/PS2 stuff to general-purpose computers? I > did a little of that a few years back and would like to resurrect the > project.... It's a bit-banged synchronous serial interface, pretty much the same as NES/SNES controllers. Tell it to get ready, then start toggling the clock pin and data pin. IIRC there is a DATA and COMMAND serial line on the PSX/PS2 interface, DATA being the controller-to-host connection and COMMAND being host-to-controller. I can't remember if timing is important. "Not too fast" I think ;-) Gordon From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sat Mar 14 10:59:56 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:59:56 -0500 Subject: Signetics 2650 brochure Message-ID: Anyone interested in a "Introductory Brochure and Short Form Catalog" for the Signetics 2650 microprocessor? Free except for postage. Hope someone can use it. thanks Charles From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sat Mar 14 11:11:10 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:11:10 -0500 Subject: paging Josh Dersch Message-ID: Please email me offlist. thanks Charles From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sat Mar 14 11:13:18 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:13:18 -0500 Subject: Manuals for S-100 boards Message-ID: Whoever bought my Wameco CPU-1 8080A card and QMB-9 "Little Mother" motherboard, please email me offlist. I found the original manuals for them if you are interested. thanks Charles From classiccmp at philpem.me.uk Sat Mar 14 12:31:43 2009 From: classiccmp at philpem.me.uk (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:31:43 +0000 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> Message-ID: <49BBE9FF.3020304@philpem.me.uk> Teo Zenios wrote: > Quite a few people used the PSone LCD panels to make other portable > machines and other stuff like that. The only Playstation I have is one > of the original 1001 models that was modded. Famous for CD drive issues. I had a 1002 (UK version of the SCPH-1001), and it blew the read laser after ~1 year. Replaced it with an SCPH-7502 (the last PSX with parallel and serial ports) and last time I checked it still worked fine. > Know of anybody that ever made use of the serial and parallel ports on > the original PS1's? The Net Yaroze development kit used the serial port to transfer code to the PSX, and a lot of cheat cartridges and external modchips used the parallel port. The latter allowed an external device to force the PSX to boot from an external ROM. I ended up building a serial cable for the PSX, but never did anything with it beyond transferring a few demo apps onto the machine and running them. I also seem to recall having a MIPS/psx version of gcc, but I haven't seen the CD with that on in a very long while. -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 12:37:11 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:37:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Message-ID: <49BBEB47.1050105@sbcglobal.net> der Mouse wrote: >> I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does >> anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? > > I dunno if it'll help, but in my experience PS2 controllers and cables > work with the PS and PSone. > > I may have something I can pop in the post to you; I'll have a > look-see. But probably not before Tuesday. > Not a problem. Thanks. :) -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 12:38:47 2009 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:38:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> Message-ID: <49BBEBA7.9020505@sbcglobal.net> Teo Zenios wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. > > >>> I was given a PSOne game console recently. Just the console. Does >>> anyone have cables & controllers collecting dust? >> >> I dunno if it'll help, but in my experience PS2 controllers and cables >> work with the PS and PSone. >> >> I may have something I can pop in the post to you; I'll have a >> look-see. But probably not before Tuesday. >> >> In an attempt to keep this at least slightly on-topic, has anyone else >> played with interfacing PS/PS2 stuff to general-purpose computers? I >> did a little of that a few years back and would like to resurrect the >> project.... >> > > Quite a few people used the PSone LCD panels to make other portable > machines and other stuff like that. The only Playstation I have is one > of the original 1001 models that was modded. > > Know of anybody that ever made use of the serial and parallel ports on > the original PS1's? > LCD? Not on the PSOne I have... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 12:43:00 2009 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:43:00 +0100 Subject: Signetics 2650 brochure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you didn't received any reply yet, I'll take it.Thanks stephane On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 16:59, Charles Morris < charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net> wrote: > Anyone interested in a "Introductory Brochure and Short Form Catalog" > for the Signetics 2650 microprocessor? > > Free except for postage. Hope someone can use it. > > thanks > Charles > > > -- Stephane Paris, France. From classiccmp at philpem.me.uk Sat Mar 14 13:16:15 2009 From: classiccmp at philpem.me.uk (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:16:15 +0000 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BBEBA7.9020505@sbcglobal.net> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> <49BBEBA7.9020505@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <49BBF46F.106@philpem.me.uk> Dave Woyciesjes wrote: > LCD? Not on the PSOne I have... They were sold as an optional extra by a few third-party manufacturers. IIRC Sony never sold an "official" PSone LCD panel... -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ From josefcub at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 13:42:07 2009 From: josefcub at gmail.com (Josef Chessor) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:42:07 -0500 Subject: OT: Longshot: Looking for Sony PSOne accessories. In-Reply-To: <49BBF46F.106@philpem.me.uk> References: <49BA8FE2.50904@sbcglobal.net> <200903131813.OAA13385@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <0E6C40A515024BCE9815692B625195C9@game> <49BBEBA7.9020505@sbcglobal.net> <49BBF46F.106@philpem.me.uk> Message-ID: <9e2403920903141142k13e39688x2a1a9a0527bf269f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Philip Pemberton wrote: > They were sold as an optional extra by a few third-party manufacturers. IIRC > Sony never sold an "official" PSone LCD panel... > I actually own a pair of "PSOne LCD Combo" units, bought with a Sony LCD attached to the PSOne right out of the box. It's a very clear LCD unit, and a joy to view compared to some of the third-party externals that were available. And as was said before, very hackable too. :) Josef -- "I laugh because I dare not cry. This is a crazy world and the only way to enjoy it is to treat it as a joke." -- Hilda "Sharpie" Burroughs, "The Number of the Beast" by Robert A. Heinlein From djg at pdp8.net Sat Mar 14 14:34:25 2009 From: djg at pdp8.net (djg at pdp8.net) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:34:25 -0400 Subject: Creating boot disks for a DECMate III Message-ID: <200903141934.n2EJYPx00602@h-68-165-246-86.mclnva23.covad.net> >I've recently got hold of a pair of DECMate IIIs and would like to get >them up and running with OS/278. Unfortunately they didn't come with any >media so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a site that has some suitable >boot images that I can copy onto 5.25" floppies with PUTR > http://www.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/images/block/ I was about to post the link to the alt.sys.pdp8 message with the instructions on how to use these images with putr but it now looks like google groups now requires you to sign in to view. From jdbryan at acm.org Sat Mar 14 17:27:10 2009 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:27:10 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <49B88DF3.4020705@mail.msu.edu> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu>, , <49B88DF3.4020705@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 11, 2009 at 21:22, Josh Dersch wrote: > All but columns G and H are populated, so here goes: > > Column A: 5180-0141, 5180-0142, 5180-0143 > Column B: 12823-80019, 12823-80020, 12823-80021 > Column C: 12824-80007, 12824-80008, 12824-80009 > Column D: 92067-80001, 92067-80002, 92067-80003 > Column E: 1816-1301, 1816-1303, 1816-1304 > Column F: 1816-1305, 1816-1306, 1816-1307 Hmmm...those last two sets are puzzling. I can't find any record of those part numbers. Would you please note the DIP switch settings to the right of the chips in columns E and F (when the card is oriented so that the ejectors are on the right side) and report them back to the list? That will give us the microcode addresses, and that might give us a lead as to the option identities. -- Dave From legalize at xmission.com Sat Mar 14 18:30:22 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:30:22 -0600 Subject: bitsavers RSS feeds Message-ID: Al Kossow is now publishing a Whatsnew.txt for the disk/tape images section of bitsavers. This allowed me to take my existing RSS feed mechanism for the PDF section of bitsavers and expand it to cover the bits section as well. The old RSS feed URL will continue to work, but I recommend that you use the specific RSS feed for the section you want to monitor: RSS feed for bitsavers PDF: RSS feed for bitsavers bits: The feeds are updated hourly. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From fu3.org at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 19:11:31 2009 From: fu3.org at gmail.com (C.H.) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:11:31 +0100 Subject: bitsavers RSS feeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <310f50ab0903141711q4e8e5b6er53cc31b886bda5d7@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/15 Richard : > Al Kossow is now publishing a Whatsnew.txt for the disk/tape images > section of bitsavers. ?This allowed me to take my existing RSS feed > mechanism for the PDF section of bitsavers and expand it to cover the > bits section as well. ?The old RSS feed URL will continue to work, but > I recommend that you use the specific RSS feed for the section you > want to monitor: > > RSS feed for bitsavers PDF: > > > RSS feed for bitsavers bits: > > > The feeds are updated hourly. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ?Legalize Adulthood! > much appreciated (!) fine addition; really. -- !# - fu3.org/h.christ/ From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Sun Mar 15 05:02:14 2009 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:02:14 +0000 Subject: DIGITAL MAINFRAME DATA DISK CARTRIDGE RK06K-DC NEW OLD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BCD226.30504@wickensonline.co.uk> 260376401760 Item on ebay UK. Thought it might be of interest to someone. Mark. From nierveze at radio-astronomie.com Sat Mar 14 05:51:40 2009 From: nierveze at radio-astronomie.com (nierveze) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:51:40 +0100 Subject: Creating boot disks for a DECMate III References: <1236983754.12353.2.camel@spasmo> Message-ID: <000501c9a492$e07ae260$04000005@pc> hello ,look here ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/images you have all that you need ,rx50 images ,suitable for putr ,os278 with assembler ,fortran ,basic and even two disks of games.they all work well here. enjoy ,games are really fun . best regards alain nierveze ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Tobias Russell" ? : "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Envoy? : vendredi 13 mars 2009 23:35 Objet : Creating boot disks for a DECMate III > I've recently got hold of a pair of DECMate IIIs and would like to get > them up and running with OS/278. Unfortunately they didn't come with any > media so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a site that has some suitable > boot images that I can copy onto 5.25" floppies with PUTR > > I've found some images on sunsite and update.uu.se however these are in > teledisk format. Is it possible to turn these back into a straight > physical image suitable for use with PUTR? > > Thanks, > Toby > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 08:44:27 2009 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Amazed by prices In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dbe3c380903131729p73b21a00ga686eeade58f0cb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Mar 2009, Brian Lanning wrote: > ebay: 320349058642 > > I'm sure it's a collector's item. But this stuff blows my mind. I > had one of these along with a few other vintage items that I'm ashamed > to say that I ditched long ago, including a certain red and white > computer that plugged into a famous video game console from a certain > japanese company. :-( Cool. I picked up an equally clean 5150 and monitor in the original boxes for $65 earlier this year. -- From margr at activ8.net.au Sun Mar 15 06:06:57 2009 From: margr at activ8.net.au (margie) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:06:57 +1000 Subject: RCA WO-33A Manual available Message-ID: I am very interested in a manual for the WO-33A RCA oscilloscope. I saw your write up on internet and would be grateful if you could forward me some information on same. Keith Regazzoli, P.O. Box 44, Greenvale. 4816 Queensland, Australia From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 16 05:47:34 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:47:34 +0100 Subject: Alive ?????? Message-ID: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> Just a ping to check if cctalk is online ................ -Rik From pcoghlan+cctech at vms.eurokom.ie Mon Mar 16 06:56:06 2009 From: pcoghlan+cctech at vms.eurokom.ie (Peter Coghlan) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:56:06 +0000 (WET) Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e Message-ID: <01N6NGV6XH6UNRQTRK@vms.eurokom.ie> > >Problem 1: >I have two Vax with both with similar problems. One is a 3100 VAXstation-76 and >the other is a VAX 3100 and both give a keyboard error. Both display a backwards >"?" and then "VT420 Keyboard Error - 4" -- the 3100-10e shows VT320 error instead. >The VAXstation has not run as yet, but I have had the 10e running in the past. >Now both machines display an error. Both machines and peripherals (including the >VT420 and VT320) were purchased through eBay. > Any time I've seen "keyboard error 4", it's been produced by a terminal. In theory, the terminal could be faulty but so far I've always found that either the keyboard plugged in to the terminal is faulty or there is nothing plugged in to the terminal where the keyboard should be. Problems with a keyboard attached to a VAX 3100 tend to produce much more obscure error reports including a bunch of hex numbers during the power-on tests. If you don't have a graphics monitor and intend to use a terminal as the system console, plug the keyboard into the terminal, not into the VAX. The little switch at the back of the VAXstation ("S3"?) then needs to be set to the correct position (it may be already). If this is not done, you can still log on at the terminal once everything is working but you can't use it for console commands and it will not be possible to install the operating system from scratch. Once the switch is set correctly and the terminal cabled up correctly, you should see the output of power-on tests on the terminal when the VAXstation is switched on. > >Problem 2: >About two years ago I signed up for an openVMS licence. Since then I have been unable >to get the operating system working or either Montagar or ENCOMPASS to give me little >more than the time of day. It has been almost 2 years since this started and I have >tried almost all that I can think of to get it settled. Hopefully you can suggest what >to do -- I have gone 1 year past the licence renewal and no-one has even contacted me. > I had a bit of hassle getting my membership number from my local Decus chapter (it's probably called something else now) which I had previously joined for free but once I got that, everything was straightforward. There is no handholding though - you type the relevant details into a form on the web and the licenses arrive in your email. Regards Peter. From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Tue Mar 17 22:08:15 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:08:15 -0500 Subject: Test - Please ignore Message-ID: <49C0659F.6040903@compsys.to> Test - please ignore! From vern4wright at yahoo.com Tue Mar 17 22:17:44 2009 From: vern4wright at yahoo.com (Vernon Wright) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: test - ClassicCmp down Message-ID: <881964.71574.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Once again - haven't seen a new post since 3-15, March partial archive is AFU. If the site is down this won't post but I'll get the blindcopy. From fryers at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 08:44:41 2009 From: fryers at gmail.com (Simon Fryer) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:44:41 +0000 Subject: Alive ?????? In-Reply-To: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> References: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> Message-ID: 2009/3/16 Rik Bos : > Just a ping to check if cctalk is online ................ > > -Rik > > > > Ack. Simon -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is the utility of the final product." Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh From ploopster at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 08:52:59 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:52:59 -0400 Subject: Alive ?????? In-Reply-To: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> References: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> Message-ID: <49C0FCBB.904@gmail.com> Rik Bos wrote: > Just a ping to check if cctalk is online ................ Looks fine to me. Peace... Sridhar From brianlanning at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 09:03:29 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:03:29 -0500 Subject: Alive ?????? In-Reply-To: <49C0FCBB.904@gmail.com> References: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> <49C0FCBB.904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903180703h27fea4bbw9d80c2929fcd278a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > Rik Bos wrote: >> >> Just a ping to check if cctalk is online ................ > > Looks fine to me. > > Peace... ?Sridhar > I posted I think two topics that didn't get sent out. But it looks like these got through. broam From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Mar 18 09:15:49 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Power MachTen hacking page (and Mosaic) Message-ID: <200903181415.n2IEFnlB016840@floodgap.com> For those of you who need to run classic Mac apps (now that OS X 10.5 has killed Classic), but still need a locally running Unix/X11, I've been exploring MachTen and put up some thoughts on how to patch it up to "current standards." I also ported NCSA Mosaic to it. It actually is just barely on topic. :) http://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/machten/ -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Diamonds are forever. ------------------------------------------------------ From pontus at Update.UU.SE Wed Mar 18 09:53:56 2009 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:56 +0100 Subject: Core memory Identification Message-ID: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> Hello. A member of the swedish forum called "odd hardware" on sweclocker.com recently got som old memory that he would like to identify. One is clearly HP, but it would be nice to know for which machine. The second a Prime memory, and the third is a _huge_ core memory and without any markings. Pictures can be found here: http://www.sweclockers.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=9039862#post9039862 The numbers on the HP memory are: 5060-8324 / A-1136-22 / 2304 The numbers on the Prime memory are: ART3572 REV E / PCB3573-001 REV E So, does anyone recognize these? I've done some limited googling for the HP board but came up short. Also, he seems willing to sell at least the HP board. Cheers, Pontus. From glen.slick at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 10:03:23 2009 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:03:23 -0700 Subject: Core memory Identification In-Reply-To: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90903180803q526132cmc1f3deed5943656b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > > The numbers on the HP memory are: 5060-8324 / A-1136-22 / 2304 > The numbers on the Prime memory are: ART3572 REV E / PCB3573-001 REV E > > So, does anyone recognize these? I've done some limited googling for the > HP board but came up short. Also, he seems willing to sell at least the > HP board. > 02100-90002_2100AmaintAug72.pdf says the 5060-8324 is an 8K Core Stack / Sense Amplifier card for the 2100A in Table 1-3 Memroy Section Card Part Numbers. From drb at msu.edu Wed Mar 18 10:10:03 2009 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:10:03 -0400 Subject: Core memory Identification In-Reply-To: (Your message of Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:56 BST.) <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <200903181510.n2IFA3pR001701@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > The numbers on the Prime memory are: ART3572 REV E / PCB3573-001 REV E Everyone makes this mistake so don't feel bad, but neither of these numbers is useful to id the Prime board. (Or at least I've never found a table matching these tracking numbers for parts of the board design to the actual module part number.) The number you need is on a paper sticker on the stiffener frame next to the latches. If you can get that number, I can probably translate for you. De From IanK at vulcan.com Wed Mar 18 10:49:24 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:49:24 -0700 Subject: Core memory Identification In-Reply-To: <200903181510.n2IFA3pR001701@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> ,<200903181510.n2IFA3pR001701@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Message-ID: According to one of my co-workers - a former Prime engineer - the Prime boards are for a 550, 50 or 750. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Boone [drb at msu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:10 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Core memory Identification > The numbers on the Prime memory are: ART3572 REV E / PCB3573-001 REV E Everyone makes this mistake so don't feel bad, but neither of these numbers is useful to id the Prime board. (Or at least I've never found a table matching these tracking numbers for parts of the board design to the actual module part number.) The number you need is on a paper sticker on the stiffener frame next to the latches. If you can get that number, I can probably translate for you. De From stimpy.u.idiot at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 11:45:25 2009 From: stimpy.u.idiot at gmail.com (Pete Edwards) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:45:25 +0000 Subject: 2-problems with VAXstation 3100-76 and VAX 3100 10e In-Reply-To: <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> References: <183279.49541.qm@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236881434.20457.15.camel@elric> <26c11a640903121516n333a0079o8564db6d210e078b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <11c909eb0903180945m31443830m78cf6eca97d46113@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/12 Dan Williams > > Having repeatedly tried and failed to get a hobbyist licence in the UK, > > for any amount of money, I've come to the conclusion that either DEC > > really really dislike hobbyists or they actively want you to pirate VMS. > > > > Gordon > > > > > I am in the UK. You need to be a member of Encompass to get the > license. I joined the USA group as it is free. The UK branch costs ?50 > a year for a hobby membership. > Try here : > > > https://www.connect-community.org/Membership/JoinConnect/tabid/58/Default.aspx > > It can take a month or so, but as soon as you get a membership number > you get a license for the hobbyist website. > Same here, never had a problem registering with encompass for free despite being in the UK. One thing I did find was that my ISP (demon) like to silently filter the license PAKs as junkmail when they get emailed out, so it looks like the license request process isn't working but in fact it's some stupid spam filter getting in the way. -- Pete Edwards "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" - Niels Bohr From lproven at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 11:54:08 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:54:08 +0000 Subject: Anyone want some free RAM and CPUs? Message-ID: <575131af0903180954q47ba374dg26fd5d9858ee9f7b@mail.gmail.com> I have a small pile of 4MB 72-pin SIMMs, both DRAM and EDO. At least a dozen, maybe 3-4 times that many. Anyone want some of them? I also have about 4 or 5 old Pentium chips. Just the bare CPU chips, not whole computers! All work, as far as I know, but they're old. I don't mean Pentium 2, 3, 4, nor even Pentium MMX, just plain old Pentium 1s. I think I have a 90MHz, a 100MHz and a few 120MHz ones. All free for the postage from London, England. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat, Yahoo & Skype: liamproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Wed Mar 18 13:15:11 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:15:11 -0400 Subject: Core memory Identification References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <18881.14895.6868.891049@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pontus" == Pontus Pihlgren writes: Pontus> Hello. A member of the swedish forum called "odd hardware" Pontus> on sweclocker.com recently got som old memory that he would Pontus> like to identify. One is clearly HP, but it would be nice to Pontus> know for which machine. The second a Prime memory, and the Pontus> third is a _huge_ core memory and without any markings. Pontus> Pictures can be found here: Pontus> http://www.sweclockers.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=9039862#post9039862 Interesting! Those core memory photos would be a great addition to Wikipedia if the photographer is willing to contribute them. For one thing, that's actually a coincidence addressed memory, which the current detail photo isn't. Excellent photography! In fact, it looks like a memory with two inhibit wires rather than the common single inhibit. This matches what CDC did in the 60-bit mainframes (6000 series). But it isn't one of those because it has 7 groups of 8 rows, while CDC has 64 rows and colums per plane. 3584 bits per plane... very strange. paul From IanK at vulcan.com Wed Mar 18 13:17:50 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:17:50 -0700 Subject: Core memory Identification In-Reply-To: References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> ,<200903181510.n2IFA3pR001701@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Message-ID: Oops, I cut-and-pasted his typo: that's 550, 650 or 750. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian King Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:49 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Core memory Identification According to one of my co-workers - a former Prime engineer - the Prime boards are for a 550, 50 or 750. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Boone [drb at msu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:10 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Core memory Identification > The numbers on the Prime memory are: ART3572 REV E / PCB3573-001 REV E Everyone makes this mistake so don't feel bad, but neither of these numbers is useful to id the Prime board. (Or at least I've never found a table matching these tracking numbers for parts of the board design to the actual module part number.) The number you need is on a paper sticker on the stiffener frame next to the latches. If you can get that number, I can probably translate for you. De From drb at msu.edu Wed Mar 18 14:02:28 2009 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:02:28 -0400 Subject: Core memory Identification In-Reply-To: (Your message of Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:56 BST.) <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <200903181902.n2IJ2Sqv007252@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > The numbers on the Prime memory are: ART3572 REV E / PCB3573-001 REV E Did a little more looking at the photos. This is a 1 MB board, configured as 512k x 22 bits (16 bits user accessible, the rest for ECC). It may support (or _require_) interleaving memory accesses across two boards. Based on the chips, I think the part number for this board is probably 12512-E8 or 7615-902, rather than one of the later designs. The sticker might say MMW1-E8. De From steve at radiorobots.com Wed Mar 18 14:52:14 2009 From: steve at radiorobots.com (steve stutman) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:52:14 -0400 Subject: Fairly OT: CNC table available near Boston Message-ID: <49C150EE.9020103@radiorobots.com> Posting for a friend; no other connection. ---------------------------------- A dev shop in Medfield, MA is moving. Available is a 1970s vintage USA made XY table and overhead support from an automated wirewrap machine; originally driven by paper tape. May be good basis for CAM or similar robotics. Moves approx 2 x 3 feet. Construction superior to a brick house. High quality ball screws etc. Table base is steel approx 1" thick; in turn mounted to a desk-like machine support. Drive motors included. Estimated weight is 750 lbs Must be picked up. Cost is nominal; free to educational institution. -------------------------------- If interested, please contact me and I can send pic and other info. Steve From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Wed Mar 18 15:05:32 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:05:32 +0100 Subject: Alive ?????? In-Reply-To: <49C0FCBB.904@gmail.com> References: <5D3CC819D4D343849ADDB55FD4738D0E@xp1800> <49C0FCBB.904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <755A6379605049DE9FDECB19BBD9231D@xp1800> Only I posted it on Sunday evening.. Snail Mail would be faster ;-) -Rik > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Sridhar Ayengar > Verzonden: woensdag 18 maart 2009 14:53 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Onderwerp: Re: Alive ?????? > > Rik Bos wrote: > > Just a ping to check if cctalk is online ................ > > Looks fine to me. > > Peace... Sridhar > From pontus at update.uu.se Wed Mar 18 15:45:29 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:45:29 +0100 Subject: Core memory Identification In-Reply-To: <18881.14895.6868.891049@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> <18881.14895.6868.891049@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49C15D69.9000703@update.uu.se> Thanks for all answers :) > Interesting! Those core memory photos would be a great addition to > Wikipedia if the photographer is willing to contribute them. For one > thing, that's actually a coincidence addressed memory, which the > current detail photo isn't. Excellent photography! > I've asked, I'll get back with the answer :) > In fact, it looks like a memory with two inhibit wires rather than the > common single inhibit. This matches what CDC did in the 60-bit > mainframes (6000 series). But it isn't one of those because it has 7 > groups of 8 rows, while CDC has 64 rows and colums per plane. 3584 > bits per plane... very strange. If it makes more sense, the plane is double sided so it tallies up to 7168 bits cheers, Pontus. From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Wed Mar 18 15:51:57 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:51:57 -0400 Subject: Core memory Identification References: <20090318145356.GA1469@Update.UU.SE> <18881.14895.6868.891049@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49C15D69.9000703@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <18881.24301.977996.995397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "pontus" == pontus writes: >> In fact, it looks like a memory with two inhibit wires rather than >> the common single inhibit. This matches what CDC did in the >> 60-bit mainframes (6000 series). But it isn't one of those >> because it has 7 groups of 8 rows, while CDC has 64 rows and >> colums per plane. 3584 bits per plane... very strange. pontus> If it makes more sense, the plane is double sided so it pontus> tallies up to 7168 bits Not a lot. I can't think of 14 bit systems. The only thing that comes to mind is 27 bits plus parity (two planes) -- 27 bit computers existed... paul From silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 16:04:44 2009 From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com (silvercreekvalley) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller Message-ID: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Does anyone have a spare 8 bit ISA hard-disk controller, something that would work in a IBM XT. The current controller is damaged, and always reports '1701' when the XT boots. I've tried known good hard-drives without success so I'm pretty sure its the controller. Please contact me of list. Thanks Ian. From brianlanning at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:09:45 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:09:45 -0500 Subject: Want list(s) Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903181409w36a48223nb8c24a2c4000bd81@mail.gmail.com> It looks like my this post from a few days ago vanished, so I'm sending it again. My apologies if you get it twice. I visited Mike Lee today and brought home an Apple iie and iigs. (thanks mike) He and I were talking about lists of wanted hardware. I think it might be useful for people to send around a list once a month or some other interval listing what we're after and maybe what we have to trade. Maybe we can bring it to the meeting later this month. (is that still on?) So I guess I'll start. :-) Here's what I'm willing to trade: A working amiga 2000 with a hard drive card and two floppy drives. I can include a mouse, but not a keyboard. I also have a Commodore 128D. Here's what I'm after: Commodore 64c with a 1541c, 1541-2, or 1571 A few dead (or alive) 1571s that I can hack Amiga 500 Working Amiga 600 keyboard Amiga 1200, dead ok. CPU upgrades for the 2000 (040+) or any for the 1200 Really, any amiga peripheral or upgrade A board that would allow some sort of hard drive on the iie and iigs, so if you have something like a vulcan or scsi controller lying around... :-) Internal scsi devices that aren't fixed disks or tape drives, so things like zip or jaz drives, etc. An NEC Multisync 3D monitor A clean IBM 5150 case I can hack A clean IBM 5170 case I can hack 3.5" and 5.25" double density floppies I can feed to the catweasel One of those 200-400 disk dvd changers A smallish audio mixing board From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 18 17:28:14 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:28:14 -0600 Subject: dec vaxen on GSA auctions (NASA JPL) Message-ID: MicroVAX II VAXstation II MicroVAX II RA60 VR260 C.ITOH CIT-101 terminal C.ITOH CIT-224 terminal buncha other stuff... looks like 10 pallets of stuff -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 18 18:40:23 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090318163022.E11744@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, silvercreekvalley wrote: > Does anyone have a spare 8 bit ISA hard-disk controller, > something that would work in a IBM XT. > The current controller is damaged, and always reports > '1701' when the XT boots. I've tried known good hard-drives > without success so I'm pretty sure its the controller. > Please contact me of list. IFF you want to recover the old data, and/or use the old hard drive without a low-level reformat, then you will need to specify which hard disk controller with more than "8 bit". Unlike AT (16 bit), the XT hard disk conrollers were not interchangeable. Not even between related models of Xebec. From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 19:14:33 2009 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:14:33 +0000 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <20090318163022.E11744@shell.lmi.net> References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20090318163022.E11744@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <49C18E69.3000108@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Fred Cisin wrote: > IFF you want to recover the old data, and/or use the old hard drive > without a low-level reformat, then you will need to specify which hard > disk controller with more than "8 bit". Unlike AT (16 bit), the XT hard > disk conrollers were not interchangeable. Not even between related models > of Xebec. That's mostly true, in my experience, though also not to do with the width of the data bus :) but more to do with the type of disks, what you say would mostly be true for MFM or RLL disks, of which most 8 bit controlers are, but would also apply to 16bit MFM/RLL too. But it would not apply to for example SCSI, or IDE, though for 8 bit IDE you do need a compatible drive. In my experience I have also found that the rule isn't hard and fast for MFM drives, for example I can read the disks from my Altos unix box on a PC with a compatible WD MFM chipset, though the slight complication is that the Altos disks are 16 sectors/track rather than the more common 17 on a PC. Mind I really only have experience of WD chipsets, as they where most common here in the UK, cirtainly I have other MFM/RLL cards, but only thew odd one or two, whereas I have several WD based ones. Do I remember the original Xebec ones having a Z80 on board, so maybe they where partly software driven, and the incompatibility was due to different versions of the software. To the OP: you said that you have tried different drives, have you also tried different cables, I'm asuming so but you didn't say so may not of thought of it :) Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed Mar 18 19:54:12 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:54:12 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <49B8DCE2.6050209@mail.msu.edu> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903112115x543daa58k22d9ec0b0d9402a3@mail.gmail.com> <49B88F71.5000505@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903112229r28aa49f1y4a5a0390387dbfa0@mail.gmail.com> <49B8DCE2.6050209@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: Hi Josh Your post spured me to look at my 21mx. It does have the battery option. I fought this until someone gave me the needed clue. I inventories my I/O boards. Besides the DCPC board at the top, I have: 13037-60023 interface board 5985-60013 Relay output board 12566-8024 ground true In/Out board ( 16 In/Out ) 12531-80025 HS terminal C 12531-80025 Buffered TTY Reg And a number of jumper boards The interface board is to go with the disk controller and hard disk. I regret I don't have either of these. Looking at the documents, it wouldn't be too hard to create a IDE conveter for it. One would need a small uP to do the needed control functions. Although the buss is 16 bits a 8 bitter would be enough to do control. I have the boot ROMs for the disk and the terminal. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From useddec at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 20:21:39 2009 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:21:39 -0500 Subject: test - ClassicCmp down In-Reply-To: <881964.71574.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <881964.71574.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <624966d60903181821v357d0531mcd4515437288af35@mail.gmail.com> Beware the Ides of March! On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Vernon Wright wrote: > > Once again - haven't seen a new post since 3-15, March partial archive is > AFU. If the site is down this won't post but I'll get the blindcopy. > > > > > From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Mar 18 20:55:04 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:55:04 +0000 Subject: test - ClassicCmp down In-Reply-To: <624966d60903181821v357d0531mcd4515437288af35@mail.gmail.com> References: <881964.71574.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <624966d60903181821v357d0531mcd4515437288af35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237427704.8579.41.camel@elric> On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 20:21 -0500, Paul Anderson wrote: > Beware the Ides of March! Beware the IDEs of Maxtor! Gordon From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Mar 18 20:57:14 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:57:14 -0400 Subject: dumb rx01 image question Message-ID: <16802.1237427834@mini> [I sent this on monday but it seems to have been lost; sorry if it's a dup] I have a dumb question about rx01 image files used by simh. I used "copflp" (by John Wilson - thanks John!) to image a box of rx01 floppies. I then put the images on pc and used simh and I can see them fine with rt11 running under simh (i.e. "att rx0 image.dsk") But an old program I have which will read rt11 images does not see the directories. I am confused because it works fine with mscp image files that I connect to simh via an ra device (like an rd32). What's the difference between rt11 ra image files and rt11 rx01 image files? I would think the rt11 volume and directory info would be in the same place (but it seems I'm wrong). I tried skipping track 0 by offsetting 128*26 bytes, but that did not help. It looks like 128*25 might be a better offset for floppies. what am I missing? (and thanks in advance!) -brad From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 18 21:43:13 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:43:13 -0700 Subject: test - ClassicCmp down In-Reply-To: <1237427704.8579.41.camel@elric> References: <881964.71574.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, <624966d60903181821v357d0531mcd4515437288af35@mail.gmail.com>, <1237427704.8579.41.camel@elric> Message-ID: <49C14ED1.25214.774F9A1@cclist.sydex.com> On 19 Mar 2009 at 1:55, Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: > Beware the IDEs of Maxtor! You're a regular shipment of Miniscribe, Gordon! Cheers, Chuck From brianlanning at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 22:09:58 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:09:58 -0500 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903182009wee458f0me127d7f354bc59af@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:04 PM, silvercreekvalley wrote: > > Does anyone have a spare 8 bit ISA hard-disk controller, > something that would work in a IBM XT. > > The current controller is damaged, and always reports > '1701' when the XT boots. I've tried known good hard-drives > without success so I'm pretty sure its the controller. > > Please contact me of list. http://abcresellers.com/store/page64.html Only $100. (rolling eyes) I see these sorts of things pop up on ebay from time to time for not so bad prices. Also, I bet you could find an ISA IDE controller. Then you could attach a compact flash card to use as a hard drive. Not so retro, but I like mixing old and new like that. It's also quiet, faster, more reliable, and draws less power. brian From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 18 22:23:50 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:23:50 -0400 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <6dbe3c380903182009wee458f0me127d7f354bc59af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF@game> I have an XT and a bootable 8bit SCSI card is probably more useful then an 8 bit IDE one (old SCSI drives are still around). Almost won a bootable Trantor 130B a few days back ( in Australia) is went for $17 Australian which is $.65 or something in US dollars (I bid and forgot about it). I should probably just live with dual floppies but I like HDs in anything that can use them. From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Mar 18 22:33:02 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: test - ClassicCmp down In-Reply-To: <1237427704.8579.41.camel@elric> from Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ at "Mar 19, 9 01:55:04 am" Message-ID: <200903190333.n2J3X2RM013278@floodgap.com> > > Beware the Ides of March! > > Beware the IDEs of Maxtor! Shudder. All the drives that have ever failed on me have been Maxtors. I guess supremely bad luck, who knows. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm rethreading my toothbrush bristles." - From cclist at sydex.com Wed Mar 18 22:44:19 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:44:19 -0700 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF@game> References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com>, <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF@game> Message-ID: <49C15D23.4372.7AD0E42@cclist.sydex.com> Just to add to the picture, I've got a SASI card for a PC 5150-- an Ampex Megastore. Cheers, Chuck From glen.slick at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 22:52:37 2009 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:52:37 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <49B88DF3.4020705@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90903182052s3e13ec0eve0f3ffb7868172c0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:27 PM, J. David Bryan wrote: > > Hmmm...those last two sets are puzzling. ?I can't find any record of those > part numbers. > Here's another mystery set. Any idea on these ROMs that I have on an FEM in addition to a standard set of F-Series ROMs? 59872-80001, 59872-80002, 59872-80003 Module 48, 49, 50, 51 (1010111000) 02117-80016, 02117-80017, 02117-80018 F-Series Base Set & EIG ROMs (on CPU itself) 5180-0141, 5180-0142, 5180-0143 F-Series FFP/DMI ROMs 12823-80019, 12823-80020, 12823-80021 F-Series SIS ROMs 12824-80007, 12824-80008, 12824-80009 F-Series VIS ROMs 92084-80004, 92084-80005, 92084-80006 E/F-Series RTE-6/VM EMA/VMA ROMs 92084-80007, 92084-80008, 92084-80009 E/F-Series RTE-6/VM OS ROMs From legalize at xmission.com Wed Mar 18 23:01:52 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:01:52 -0600 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:23:50 -0400. <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF@game> Message-ID: In article <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF at game>, "Teo Zenios" writes: > I should probably just live with dual floppies but I like HDs in anything > that can use them. In original PC and XT machines, I like the "hard card" drive mounted directly on the controller card. It takes up two slots, but can be easier than having to fuss with a drive bay. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 18 23:10:55 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:10:55 -0400 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:01 AM Subject: Re: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller > > In article <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF at game>, > "Teo Zenios" writes: > >> I should probably just live with dual floppies but I like HDs in anything >> that can use them. > > In original PC and XT machines, I like the "hard card" drive mounted > directly on the controller card. It takes up two slots, but can be > easier than having to fuss with a drive bay. > -- Hardcards are nice if they still work (the drives are dying). Since I collect old Macs I tend to have a small stack of smallish HDs that I removed to install something bigger. My XT is actually a NEC V20 system (Kaypro made MC-10 system I think it is), and it has 2 internal 5.25" HH bays for HDs along with the 2 exposed 5.25" 360K HH drives. Currently I have an old 80MB 5.25" SCSI HD waiting for a bootable SCSI controller (I have a TMC 850 with no ROM). From IanK at vulcan.com Wed Mar 18 23:54:46 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:54:46 -0700 Subject: test - ClassicCmp down In-Reply-To: <200903190333.n2J3X2RM013278@floodgap.com> References: <1237427704.8579.41.camel@elric> from Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ at "Mar 19, 9 01:55:04 am",<200903190333.n2J3X2RM013278@floodgap.com> Message-ID: Once upon a time I bought a Maxtor. It failed ten months later. It was replaced. This cycle was repeated for the next FOUR years. I spent hours on the phone. Finally, I decided it was worth the lost value and bought something else. The cycle was broken.... -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser [spectre at floodgap.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:33 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: test - ClassicCmp down > > Beware the Ides of March! > > Beware the IDEs of Maxtor! Shudder. All the drives that have ever failed on me have been Maxtors. I guess supremely bad luck, who knows. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm rethreading my toothbrush bristles." - From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 18:47:56 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Want list(s) Message-ID: <877672.33362.qm@web65506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> where are you located? I have an Amiga 600 and my original 64c and 1541c, but haven't turned either on since oh 1989 I think. The 600 has been *on* in much more recent days. Seemingly in good shape. --- On Wed, 3/18/09, Brian Lanning wrote: From: Brian Lanning Subject: Want list(s) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 5:09 PM It looks like my this post from a few days ago vanished, so I'm sending it again.? My apologies if you get it twice. I visited Mike Lee today and brought home an Apple iie and iigs. (thanks mike)???He and I were talking about lists of wanted hardware. I think it might be useful for people to send around a list once a month or some other interval listing what we're after and maybe what we have to trade. Maybe we can bring it to the meeting later this month.? (is that still on?) So I guess I'll start.? :-) Here's what I'm willing to trade: A working amiga 2000 with a hard drive card and two floppy drives.? I can include a mouse, but not a keyboard. I also have a Commodore 128D. Here's what I'm after: Commodore 64c with a 1541c, 1541-2, or 1571 A few dead (or alive) 1571s that I can hack Amiga 500 Working Amiga 600 keyboard Amiga 1200, dead ok. CPU upgrades for the 2000 (040+) or any for the 1200 Really, any amiga peripheral or upgrade A board that would allow some sort of hard drive on the iie and iigs, so if you have something like a vulcan or scsi controller lying around...? :-) Internal scsi devices that aren't fixed disks or tape drives, so things like zip or jaz drives, etc. An NEC Multisync 3D monitor A clean IBM 5150 case I can hack A clean IBM 5170 case I can hack 3.5" and 5.25" double density floppies I can feed to the catweasel One of those 200-400 disk dvd changers A smallish audio mixing board From pontus at update.uu.se Thu Mar 19 01:27:07 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:27:07 +0100 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49C1E5BB.9080201@update.uu.se> silvercreekvalley wrote: > Does anyone have a spare 8 bit ISA hard-disk controller, > something that would work in a IBM XT. > > The current controller is damaged, and always reports > '1701' when the XT boots. I've tried known good hard-drives > without success so I'm pretty sure its the controller. > > Please contact me of list. > > Thanks > > Ian. > > > > have you seen this: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=14420 Cheers, pontus. From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Mar 19 02:31:46 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:31:46 -0700 Subject: Anyone looking for a HP Micro 3000 GX? Message-ID: <49C1F4E2.90204@mail.msu.edu> Hey all -- doing some more cleaning. I have an HP Micro 3000 GX, (model 32536AH) I'm looking to offload. I inherited this when I was in high school from a business that was tossing it, and I haven't done much with it since. It looks like an interesting machine, but I've got too many other things to play with at the moment and figured there might be some 3000-series fanatic out there looking for a new toy (or just parts...) At one point it was booting some version/flavor of MPE but in the past few years either the hard drive's gone bad, or it's developed a few bad sectors. It does pass all power-on diagnostics, however. It has an 157MB ESDI drive, some manner of cartridge tape drive, 4MB of ram and 16 serial ports. It's a smallish (well, relatively speaking) tower-form-factor machine. It's in pretty good shape, but it's missing a few screws on the back panel from when I took it apart when I was 16 and lost a few. (Man do you ever have to take a lot of screws out to get inside this thing!) Anyone interested in this? I can't ship it (please don't ask!) as it's way too heavy (must weigh 90lbs) but I'll happily drive a bit to meet someone halfway. This is located in the Seattle, WA area. Drop me a line... Thanks, Josh From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Mar 19 02:39:27 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:39:27 -0700 Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings Message-ID: <49C1F6AF.1000709@mail.msu.edu> Got myself a QVSS video board that I'd like to run in my MicroVAX II, but either it's configured incorrectly or it doesn't work. Anyone have a manual scanned or a list of the dip-switch settings for this? I can't find any useful info on the 'net. Symptoms are that the Keyboard responds (beeps at power up, I can hear the keyclick when I type, and the VAX seems to be responding to input) but I get no video or sync on the monitor (a VR262). Monitor, keyboard, and cable all work fine on my MicroVAX 2000, so something must be up with the QVSS. Thanks, Josh From doug at stillhq.com Thu Mar 19 02:41:11 2009 From: doug at stillhq.com (Doug Jackson) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:41:11 +1100 Subject: Pascal/MT+ & Assembler Question - CP/m 2.2 and Disk formatters Message-ID: <49C1F717.1050206@stillhq.com> Hmmm. After bashing my head against the wall for a while, I have decided to ask the list for directions (It's kind of like blokes and driving...) I have a little STD Bus CP/M 2.2 system for which I am trying to install 3.5" disk drives - Yes I know about the diferent speeds etc - but I am happy to do whatever it takes....The hardware stuff isn't that complex, I am using a 1793 disk controller, and I have good software control of it - actually ---- That's not totally correct yet! The original formatter for the system was written in Pascal MT+ - I have the source. It uses a short external assembly program to do the tricky stuff. I can compile the formatter - yay! It produces an .ERL file as its ooutput - I can also link it (using the pascal MT+ linker) with PASLIB, but I get unresolved references (ie the assembler formatter routines) - no surprises there.. I can assemble the assembly formatter - M80 =FORM4A and I get a .REL file as output. The bit I am missing is how can I link the two outputs into a single .COM file. L80 barfs at the output of the Pascal file, and the pascal linker barfs at the Microsoft file.... Help :-) Doug From silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 03:29:09 2009 From: silvercreekvalley at yahoo.com (silvercreekvalley) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller Message-ID: <783905.48821.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The card I have at the moment is the xebec card with a WD25 drive (20M). I do have a ST-251 and a ST-225 to hand as well and probably some other MFM drives. A controller for any of these would be perfect :) I did see the ISA adapter but wanted to keep the machine reasonably original if possible. I checked the cables etc, but no joy. Thanks Ian From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Mar 19 04:20:51 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:20:51 -0700 Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings In-Reply-To: <49C1F6AF.1000709@mail.msu.edu> References: <49C1F6AF.1000709@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <49C20E73.4040504@mail.msu.edu> Ah, never mind -- was just taking a closer look at the board and found a tiny tiny coax video connector on both the QVSS board and the bulkhead. Looks like this must carry the video signal. Not sure what kind of connector that is... anyone know? (I can provide pictures if necessary...) Thanks, Josh Josh Dersch wrote: > Got myself a QVSS video board that I'd like to run in my MicroVAX II, > but either it's configured incorrectly or it doesn't work. Anyone > have a manual scanned or a list of the dip-switch settings for this? > I can't find any useful info on the 'net. > > Symptoms are that the Keyboard responds (beeps at power up, I can hear > the keyclick when I type, and the VAX seems to be responding to input) > but I get no video or sync on the monitor (a VR262). Monitor, > keyboard, and cable all work fine on my MicroVAX 2000, so something > must be up with the QVSS. > > Thanks, > Josh > > From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 06:28:05 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 06:28:05 -0500 Subject: Want list(s) In-Reply-To: <877672.33362.qm@web65506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <877672.33362.qm@web65506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903190428m7ae0791cod3e612f574f1570a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Chris M wrote: > where are you located? I have an Amiga 600 and my original 64c and 1541c, but haven't turned either on since oh 1989 I think. The 600 has been *on* in much more recent days. Seemingly in good shape. I'm in the northern suburbs of chicago. It appears that I've "won" a 64c and 1541-2 from ebay for $25. Not a bad deal since I can drive over and pick it up. As far as the 600 is concerned, my M key doesn't work. I might be able to clean the switch and bring it back to life, or maybe not. So I'm really just after the keyboard. What would you want for the 600? brian From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 07:46:59 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903181409w36a48223nb8c24a2c4000bd81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <482685.18556.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all ? Is there anyone or you know of anyone who is willing to part with a CompuPro 68000 base? IEEE-696 (S100) board. I am also interested in any 680x0 base IEEE-696 board that I can readily find documentation for my new project. Thanks for whatever help you maybe able to offer. Michael From rescue at hawkmountain.net Thu Mar 19 08:50:31 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:50:31 -0400 Subject: SASI (was: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller) In-Reply-To: <49C15D23.4372.7AD0E42@cclist.sydex.com> References: <305673.11185.qm@web56208.mail.re3.yahoo.com>, <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF@game> <49C15D23.4372.7AD0E42@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <49C24DA7.7080905@hawkmountain.net> Chuck Guzis wrote: > Just to add to the picture, I've got a SASI card for a PC 5150-- an > Ampex Megastore. > > Cheers, > Chuck > > > Anyone have a SASI card for the PC available and whatever low level formatting program that is required.... I have an ATR8000 for my Atari. Inside it has a module that goes between the cpu and socket and provides a SASI interface. That then runs to a Xebec SASI<->MFM bridgeboard and then would control say an ST-225. Problem is I don't seem to have the CP/M low level formatter .... I have all the higher level stuff I think.... but this stopped me years ago with no low level formatter. The other thing I've wondered is if there is a way I could hook a small SCSI drive up to the SASI controller and have it work (save the whole bridgeboard and old MFM drive route). -- Curt From geoffb at vigilan.com Thu Mar 19 09:44:47 2009 From: geoffb at vigilan.com (Geoffrey Bunza) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:44:47 -0700 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 67, Issue 34 In-Reply-To: <200903190743.n2J7hW15012148@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903190743.n2J7hW15012148@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <49C25A5F.9010307@vigilan.com> The HP core memory board looks very much like the one in the HP-2114B that I used for quite a while. It may have been available for the HP-2115A as well but I cannot verify that. Best Regards, Geoff > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:15:11 -0400 > From: Paul Koning > Subject: Re: Core memory Identification > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Pontus> Hello. A member of the swedish forum called "odd hardware" > Pontus> on sweclocker.com recently got som old memory that he would > Pontus> like to identify. One is clearly HP, but it would be nice to > Pontus> know for which machine. The second a Prime memory, and the > Pontus> third is a _huge_ core memory and without any markings. > > Pontus> Pictures can be found here: > > Pontus> http://www.sweclockers.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=9039862#post9039862 > From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Mar 19 09:51:12 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:51:12 -0500 Subject: Want list(s) -- not the solution In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380903181409w36a48223nb8c24a2c4000bd81@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dbe3c380903181409w36a48223nb8c24a2c4000bd81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C25BE0.8060903@pacbell.net> Brian Lanning wrote: .... > > I visited Mike Lee today and brought home an Apple iie and iigs. > (thanks mike) He and I were talking about lists of wanted hardware. > I think it might be useful for people to send around a list once a > month or some other interval listing what we're after and maybe what > we have to trade. > Maybe we can bring it to the meeting later this month. (is that still on?) > > So I guess I'll start. :-) Brian, this is a terrible idea. It doesn't scale. Do you realize that there are >1000 people on this list? If each broadcasts his/her wishlist every month, we will be up to our knees in unwanted wish lists. If everyone does as you suggest, each individual request will likely receive as much attention as if you hadn't posted it. It will be like a mail pyramid -- the first ones to do it will get some results, and everyone else suffers. Let's do what we have been doing -- if you have some specific need and can't find it locally or on ebay, then think about asking the list. For instance, you acquire some computer but it has no boot media. Great. Everyone asking Santa for an Apple I for a month won't fly. There are a couple "computer rescue" lists, although I don't track them anymore and don't know if they get updated. If not, maybe someone with some web smarts can think about (re)creating one. Go online, register your location and interests, update it when you want. Maybe get Jay to host it and link to it from classiccmp.org. From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Thu Mar 19 09:52:58 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:52:58 -0400 Subject: dumb rx01 image question References: <16802.1237427834@mini> Message-ID: <18882.23626.379095.576850@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> [I sent this on monday but it seems to have been lost; sorry if Brad> it's a dup] Brad> I have a dumb question about rx01 image files used by simh. Brad> I used "copflp" (by John Wilson - thanks John!) to image a box Brad> of rx01 floppies. Brad> I then put the images on pc and used simh and I can see them Brad> fine with rt11 running under simh (i.e. "att rx0 image.dsk") Brad> But an old program I have which will read rt11 images does not Brad> see the directories. I am confused because it works fine with Brad> mscp image files that I connect to simh via an ra device (like Brad> an rd32). Brad> What's the difference between rt11 ra image files and rt11 rx01 Brad> image files? I would think the rt11 volume and directory info Brad> would be in the same place (but it seems I'm wrong). Brad> I tried skipping track 0 by offsetting 128*26 bytes, but that Brad> did not help. It looks like 128*25 might be a better offset Brad> for floppies. Brad> what am I missing? Here's a guess -- I don't have the right sources at hand to make a certain determination. Some floppies use interleaving. RX50, for example. Looking at the RSTS RX01/02 driver, I see that it supports interleaving; what isn't clear to me without a lot more digging is whether that applies to RT format floppies. If it does, then the translation looks like this: 1. Track 0 is skipped, so logical track 0 is physical track 1/ 2. Within a track, logical sector numbrs 0-12 correspond to the even numbered physical sectors, 13-25 the odd numbered physical sector. So logical sector 13 is physical sector 1. 3. In addition to (2), sectors are skewed. After doing the interleave calculation in (2), add 6 * logical track number to the physical sector number to get the final value. You might give that a try... paul From mardy at voysys.com Thu Mar 19 09:58:11 2009 From: mardy at voysys.com (Marden P. Marshall) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:58:11 -0400 Subject: Morrow DiskJockey/DMA - Looking for information and firmware In-Reply-To: <497A9D85.7070009@mail.msu.edu> References: <497A9D85.7070009@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4233F14D-F7E0-4AFC-8C45-A77099F52567@voysys.com> I'm trying to build a Morrow DiskJockey/DMA board and am looking for images of the various PROM's and PLD's used on it. For those of you not familiar with this board, it is a very unique S-100 bus floppy controller. What makes it unique is that it is extremely flexible in that it can handle both 5.25 and 8 inch floppies, both hard and soft sectored, and it does not utilize a LSI floppy controller chip. Instead it does everything in software, using an on-board Z80 and several PLD's. I've looked in the usual places and have only been able to find the user manual, schematics and CBIOS listings. What I am hoping to eventually find are binary images and design listings for the various PROM's, PLD's and Z80 application code. Thanks, -Mardy From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 10:03:52 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:03:52 -0500 Subject: Want list(s) -- not the solution In-Reply-To: <49C25BE0.8060903@pacbell.net> References: <6dbe3c380903181409w36a48223nb8c24a2c4000bd81@mail.gmail.com> <49C25BE0.8060903@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903190803w78efedaesc951c4f2b3a65e45@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Jim Battle wrote: > Brian, this is a terrible idea. ?It doesn't scale. > > Do you realize that there are >1000 people on this list? ?If each broadcasts > his/her wishlist every month, we will be up to our knees in unwanted wish > lists. ?If everyone does as you suggest, each individual request will likely > receive as much attention as if you hadn't posted it. > > It will be like a mail pyramid -- the first ones to do it will get some > results, and everyone else suffers. > > Let's do what we have been doing -- if you have some specific need and can't > find it locally or on ebay, then think about asking the list. ?For instance, > you acquire some computer but it has no boot media. ?Great. Everyone asking > Santa for an Apple I for a month won't fly. > > There are a couple "computer rescue" lists, although I don't track them > anymore and don't know if they get updated. ?If not, maybe someone with some > web smarts can think about (re)creating one. ?Go online, register your > location and interests, update it when you want. Maybe get Jay to host it > and link to it from classiccmp.org. I didn't realize it was so huge. Although I didn't give it a lot of thought either. Also, I figured my post would be a starting point to a discussion about a mechanism that would allow people to find each other. I wasn't sure what form it would take. It certainly doesn't have to be a giant email every month. I could probably put together the site you describe, although my time is sort of limited. From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Mar 19 10:12:11 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:12:11 -0700 Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings In-Reply-To: <49C20E73.4040504@mail.msu.edu> References: <49C1F6AF.1000709@mail.msu.edu>,<49C20E73.4040504@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: Have you asked at Vetco? From memory I think I know what connector you're talking about and I'm pretty sure I've seen it there. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Josh Dersch [derschjo at mail.msu.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings Ah, never mind -- was just taking a closer look at the board and found a tiny tiny coax video connector on both the QVSS board and the bulkhead. Looks like this must carry the video signal. Not sure what kind of connector that is... anyone know? (I can provide pictures if necessary...) Thanks, Josh Josh Dersch wrote: > Got myself a QVSS video board that I'd like to run in my MicroVAX II, > but either it's configured incorrectly or it doesn't work. Anyone > have a manual scanned or a list of the dip-switch settings for this? > I can't find any useful info on the 'net. > > Symptoms are that the Keyboard responds (beeps at power up, I can hear > the keyclick when I type, and the VAX seems to be responding to input) > but I get no video or sync on the monitor (a VR262). Monitor, > keyboard, and cable all work fine on my MicroVAX 2000, so something > must be up with the QVSS. > > Thanks, > Josh > > From js at cimmeri.com Thu Mar 19 10:17:58 2009 From: js at cimmeri.com (js at cimmeri.com) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:17:58 -0500 Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings In-Reply-To: <200903190743.n2J7hW14012148@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903190743.n2J7hW14012148@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <49C26226.6090001@cimmeri.com> Message: 29 Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:39:27 -0700 From: Josh Dersch Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings Got myself a QVSS video board that I'd like to run in my MicroVAX II, but either it's configured incorrectly or it doesn't work. Anyone have a manual scanned or a list of the dip-switch settings for this? I can't find any useful info on the 'net. Symptoms are that the Keyboard responds (beeps at power up, I can hear the keyclick when I type, and the VAX seems to be responding to input) but I get no video or sync on the monitor (a VR262). Monitor, keyboard, and cable all work fine on my MicroVAX 2000, so something must be up with the QVSS. Thanks, Josh ------- J, Search online for EK-104AA-TM-001, AZ-GLNAB-MN, and AZ-GLFAB-MN. I found all these online for my QVSS, just don't remember from where. jS From alec at sensi.org Thu Mar 19 10:57:28 2009 From: alec at sensi.org (Alexander Voropay) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:57:28 +0300 Subject: dumb rx01 image question In-Reply-To: <16802.1237427834@mini> References: <16802.1237427834@mini> Message-ID: <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/19 Brad Parker : > But an old program I have which will read rt11 images does not see the > directories. Try to use PUTR from the same site: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Documentation (putr.doc) is included. Then try to MOUNT the floppy or image with /INTERLEAVE /RT11 options. -- -=AV=- From evan at snarc.net Thu Mar 19 11:38:33 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:38:33 -0400 Subject: test, please ignore this Message-ID: <005401c9a8b1$26567d90$0301a8c0@evan> llalalallalala From ploopster at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 11:44:03 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:44:03 -0400 Subject: test, please ignore this In-Reply-To: <005401c9a8b1$26567d90$0301a8c0@evan> References: <005401c9a8b1$26567d90$0301a8c0@evan> Message-ID: <49C27653.8070807@gmail.com> Evan Koblentz wrote: > llalalallalala lala-lah-la Peace... Sridhar From lproven at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 11:45:35 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:45:35 +0000 Subject: Anyone interested in VESA or PCI 486 PCs? Message-ID: <575131af0903190945j848a12csb16c6f8f684bebf5@mail.gmail.com> I am having a clear-out & I've discovered a cache of 486s in my garage. 4 or 5 machines, some VL-bus, some PCI. 486DX2-66 or better. All come with hard disks, RAM, network cards, CD-ROM drive if desired. I can provide keyboards too if desired. Free for collection from London, England. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat, Yahoo & Skype: liamproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 19 11:49:37 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:49:37 -0400 Subject: dumb rx01 image question In-Reply-To: <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> References: <16802.1237427834@mini> <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <14565.1237481377@mini> Alexander Voropay wrote: > >http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ I love putr, but it requires dos. I don't think the problem in interleave, as the resulting images work perfectly with simh (as I said before). Simh treats them as a big byte stream and does not deinterleave. (plus, if you use the controller to read sectors by number, you automagically deinterleave) -brad From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Thu Mar 19 12:29:25 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:29:25 -0400 Subject: dumb rx01 image question References: <16802.1237427834@mini> <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> <14565.1237481377@mini> Message-ID: <18882.33013.108021.327684@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Alexander Voropay wrote: >> http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Brad> I love putr, but it requires dos. Brad> I don't think the problem in interleave, as the resulting Brad> images work perfectly with simh (as I said before). Simh Brad> treats them as a big byte stream and does not deinterleave. Brad> (plus, if you use the controller to read sectors by number, you Brad> automagically deinterleave) I'm not so sure about that. The RX01 driver I looked at did the interleave and skew I described in software. If you're running RT11 on SIMH to read your RX01 images, the RT11 driver would be doing any necessary block number translation. But if you're trying to read the image directly then you have to do the mapping. paul From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Mar 19 12:43:19 2009 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:43:19 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e90903182052s3e13ec0eve0f3ffb7868172c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu>, , <1e1fc3e90903182052s3e13ec0eve0f3ffb7868172c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 20:52, Glen Slick wrote: > Any idea on these ROMs that I have on an FEM in addition to a standard > set of F-Series ROMs? > > 59872-80001, 59872-80002, 59872-80003 Module 48, 49, 50, 51 > (1010111000) Here's an excerpt from an internal HP product list that I obtained via Al Kossow: HP1000 Products Support Lab Product # EOS [...] GC/MS(A) SID SID 59872C GC/MS(6/VM) SID SID 59872E&59872F [...] SID Scientific Instruments Division The 1986 HP T&M catalog (e.g.) mentions a Gas Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometer that uses a 1000 RTE-6/VM system as a control and data processor on page 736. From the picture, it's a monster, so I suspect that your ROMs are accelerators for the data processing part. -- Dave From glen.slick at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 13:02:47 2009 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:02:47 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu> <1e1fc3e90903182052s3e13ec0eve0f3ffb7868172c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90903191102mf511f23y6a4cf61a48eee612@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:43 AM, J. David Bryan wrote: > > ?SID ? Scientific Instruments Division > > The 1986 HP T&M catalog (e.g.) mentions a Gas Chromatograph/Mass > Spectrometer that uses a 1000 RTE-6/VM system as a control and data > processor on page 736. ?From the picture, it's a monster, so I suspect that > your ROMs are accelerators for the data processing part. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- Dave This particular HP-1000F was obtained from a LabX auction listing a few years back and given the equipment that is typically listed there it wouldn't be surprising at all if it was part of a GC/MS system. I could try dumping these ROMs if anyone has a real interest in archiving their contents. Thanks, -Glen From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 13:13:14 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Documentation for a 256KM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <745362.75425.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello everyone Does any one know about or have documentation to the S C Digital MODEL - 256 KM 256K/1M RAM board. Mine is populated with 256 K dynamic RAM so it has 1 MB RAM. I don't have documentation so my attempt to repair it was to replace all the DRAM on board. that did not work. The parity error LED stills comes on. So in my attempt to repair the board I definitely need the documentation. Given that I remember something about issues using DRAM card on early S100 cards. I am guessing these SC Digital solved the problem since the board was made as best as I can make out on the silkscreen in 1988 Michael Hart From alexeyt at freeshell.org Thu Mar 19 13:13:45 2009 From: alexeyt at freeshell.org (Alexey Toptygin) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:13:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, Richard wrote: > > In article <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF at game>, > "Teo Zenios" writes: > >> I should probably just live with dual floppies but I like HDs in anything >> that can use them. > > In original PC and XT machines, I like the "hard card" drive mounted > directly on the controller card. It takes up two slots, but can be > easier than having to fuss with a drive bay. Hmm, ISTR my Plus Hardcard 20 fit in a single slot... it's buried under too much crap for me to dig it out and check ATM :-/ Alexey From brianlanning at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 13:20:41 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:20:41 -0500 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6dbe3c380903191120y26114fe4gfcb563e09728a7fc@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Alexey Toptygin wrote: > Hmm, ISTR my Plus Hardcard 20 fit in a single slot... it's buried under too > much crap for me to dig it out and check ATM :-/ I saw a plus hardcard 20 on ebay a couple weeks ago. It was 1 slot wide. (I used to drool over those things in advertisements in either byte or pc world. Can't remember which. Those were the days.) brian From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 13:26:45 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Documentation for a 256KM In-Reply-To: <745362.75425.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341620.93275.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I found another date on the board. The board was made in 1983 WOW!!! I can only imagine that it was very expensive in those days. 1 MB on a single S100 card --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Michael Hart wrote: From: Michael Hart Subject: Documentation for a 256KM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 2:13 PM Hello everyone Does any one know about or have documentation to the S C Digital MODEL - 256 KM 256K/1M RAM board. Mine is populated with 256 K dynamic RAM so it has 1 MB RAM. I don't have documentation so my attempt to repair it was to replace all the DRAM on board. that did not work. The parity error LED stills comes on. So in my attempt to repair the board I definitely need the documentation. Given that I remember something about issues using DRAM card on early S100 cards. I am guessing these SC Digital solved the problem since the board was made as best as I can make out on the silkscreen in 1988 Michael Hart From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 19 13:35:38 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <783905.48821.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <783905.48821.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090319113156.Y53735@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, silvercreekvalley wrote: > The card I have at the moment is the xebec card with > a WD25 drive (20M). I do have a ST-251 and a ST-225 > to hand as well and probably some other MFM drives. WHICH xebec? The IBM relabeled (with the undocumented solder pads)? the one with dip switches? the short length later one? > A controller for any of these would be perfect :) So, you ARE willing to low-level format? > I did see the ISA adapter but wanted to keep the machine > reasonably original if possible. I checked the cables > etc, but no joy. by "checked the cables" do you mean that you swapped? tested drive select? From ak6dn at mindspring.com Thu Mar 19 13:38:40 2009 From: ak6dn at mindspring.com (Don North) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:38:40 -0700 Subject: dumb rx01 image question In-Reply-To: <18882.33013.108021.327684@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16802.1237427834@mini> <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> <14565.1237481377@mini> <18882.33013.108021.327684@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <49C29130.5070900@mindspring.com> Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: > > Brad> Alexander Voropay wrote: > >> http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ > > Brad> I love putr, but it requires dos. > > Brad> I don't think the problem in interleave, as the resulting > Brad> images work perfectly with simh (as I said before). Simh > Brad> treats them as a big byte stream and does not deinterleave. > > Brad> (plus, if you use the controller to read sectors by number, you > Brad> automagically deinterleave) > > I'm not so sure about that. The RX01 driver I looked at did the > interleave and skew I described in software. > > If you're running RT11 on SIMH to read your RX01 images, the RT11 > driver would be doing any necessary block number translation. But if > you're trying to read the image directly then you have to do the > mapping. > > paul I believe Paul is exactly correct. I found this to be true also for XXDP RX01/2 images (I am cloning a version of 'xxdpdir/diagdir' that also can read/write RX01/2 media). The DEC floppy drivers (XXDP for sure, probably RT11 also) interleaves/skews logical sectors to physical sectors. SIMH uses physical track/sector addresses to access the image file, BUT the mapping from logical to physical sector uses the interleaving function. For all (?) other disk formats the logical to physical mapping is a simple sequential function. But not for floppy images. You also have to know whether the underlying disk image is RX01 (128B sector) vs RX02 (256B sector). The 'even/odd-skew-by-6' algorithm mentioned in a previous email is what I found works for XXDP. It is probably the DEC 'standard' for RX01/02 drivers. Don From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Thu Mar 19 13:54:37 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:54:37 -0400 Subject: dumb rx01 image question References: <16802.1237427834@mini> <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> <14565.1237481377@mini> <18882.33013.108021.327684@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49C29130.5070900@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <18882.38125.688800.667865@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Don" == Don North writes: Don> The 'even/odd-skew-by-6' algorithm mentioned in a previous email Don> is what I found works for XXDP. It is probably the DEC Don> 'standard' for RX01/02 drivers. I would assume that is the case. I found it in a RSTS driver, and the that that two very different systems share a mapping function suggests it's a DEC standard. (DEC certainly tended to standardize this sort of thing company-wide.) FWIW, RX50s are interleaved and skewed, too. The track length is 10 so the groups are logical sectors 0-4 and 5-9. Also, the first group is the odd one (so logical sector 0 is physical sector 1). Track skew is two sectors, bnot 6. Finally and most strangely, while on RX01 track 0 is unused, it isn't on RX50. What happens instead is that it's the last track. So logical block 0 is track 1, sector 1, and logical block 799 is track 0, sector 4. Go figure... paul From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Thu Mar 19 13:58:11 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:58:11 -0400 Subject: dumb rx01 image question References: <16802.1237427834@mini> <347d9b1b0903190857j48ede104k4b9bfb1d11bf447a@mail.gmail.com> <14565.1237481377@mini> <18882.33013.108021.327684@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49C29130.5070900@mindspring.com> <18882.38125.688800.667865@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <18882.38339.81802.354874@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Koning writes: Close but not quite... Paul> Finally and most strangely, while on RX01 track 0 is unused, it Paul> isn't on RX50. What happens instead is that it's the last Paul> track. So logical block 0 is track 1, sector 1, and logical Paul> block 799 is track 0, sector 4. Go figure... Track 0, sector 2. I left out the skew for 79 tracks. paul From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Thu Mar 19 14:42:10 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <482685.18556.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <482685.18556.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > Hi all ? Is there anyone or you know of anyone who is willing to part > with a CompuPro 68000 base? IEEE-696 (S100) board. > > I am also interested in any 680x0 base IEEE-696 board that I can readily > find documentation for my new project. Once in a while I unearth a CompuPro 68000 board for sale. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From legalize at xmission.com Thu Mar 19 15:28:02 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:28:02 -0600 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:13:45 -0000. Message-ID: In article , Alexey Toptygin writes: > > In article <67679285CDC4497086F944815057D8CF at game>, > > "Teo Zenios" writes: > > > >> I should probably just live with dual floppies but I like HDs in anything > >> that can use them. > > > > In original PC and XT machines, I like the "hard card" drive mounted > > directly on the controller card. It takes up two slots, but can be > > easier than having to fuss with a drive bay. > > Hmm, ISTR my Plus Hardcard 20 fit in a single slot... it's buried under > too much crap for me to dig it out and check ATM :-/ The electronics is only a single slot, however the hard drive itself tends to be thicker than the widget allowed for a single slot. If you have a short card you can fit it adjacent to a hardcard, but if you have a full-length card it will interfere with the hard drive mounted on the hardard. However, since its rare for a PC to have all its ISA slots occupied with full-length boards, its usually not a problem. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Thu Mar 19 15:37:44 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:37:44 -0300 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller References: Message-ID: <099901c9a8d2$978eda90$c89a18bb@DeskJara> > Hmm, ISTR my Plus Hardcard 20 fit in a single slot... it's buried under > too much crap for me to dig it out and check ATM :-/ Yes, it does. I had one (a BEAUTIFUL piece of hardware) From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 15:44:23 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <480270.62997.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Where do you find them? I am hoping to be lucky at the "Trenton Computer Festival", I haven't been there in many many years Does anyone know when the next Treaton --- On Thu, 3/19/09, David Griffith wrote: From: David Griffith Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 3:42 PM On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > Hi all ? Is there anyone or you know of anyone who is willing to part with a CompuPro 68000 base? IEEE-696 (S100) board. > > I am also interested in any 680x0 base IEEE-696 board that I can readily find documentation for my new project. Once in a while I unearth a CompuPro 68000 board for sale. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Mar 19 15:44:27 2009 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:44:27 -0400 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e90903191102mf511f23y6a4cf61a48eee612@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B76B16.5090909@mail.msu.edu>, , <1e1fc3e90903191102mf511f23y6a4cf61a48eee612@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, March 19, 2009 at 11:02, Glen Slick wrote: > I could try dumping these ROMs if anyone has a real interest in > archiving their contents. If you do, I have written an inverse assembler for E/F microcode that I could run on the ROM images. I've used it successfully on the images here: http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/HP/1000_firmware/ It might be interesting to see what was implemented, if dumping isn't too difficult. -- Dave From cclist at sydex.com Thu Mar 19 15:58:05 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:58:05 -0700 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller In-Reply-To: <099901c9a8d2$978eda90$c89a18bb@DeskJara> References: , <099901c9a8d2$978eda90$c89a18bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49C24F6D.5762.B5F326B@cclist.sydex.com> On 19 Mar 2009 at 17:37, Alexandre Souza wrote: > (a BEAUTIFUL piece of hardware) As compared to, say, a Tandon or Conner hard card? Were any hard cards made with the 2.5" Prairietek hard drives? --Chuck From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Thu Mar 19 16:10:38 2009 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:10:38 +0000 Subject: Music @ Bletchley In-Reply-To: <4BEF2FF54B634024BBB8FD4F894C894F@AntonioPC> References: <4BEF2FF54B634024BBB8FD4F894C894F@AntonioPC> Message-ID: <1237497038.15130.5.camel@entasis> On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 09:45 +0000, arcarlini at iee.org wrote: > Old computers never die ... > > http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/03/06/bletchley-park-retro-computer-orchestra/1 Is anyone going to this? I'll be there on Saturday (now sold out). http://pixelh8.co.uk/ -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360 From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Thu Mar 19 16:18:29 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:18:29 -0300 Subject: Looking for an 8 bit HD controller References: , <099901c9a8d2$978eda90$c89a18bb@DeskJara> <49C24F6D.5762.B5F326B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <0a4a01c9a8d8$4ec97e40$c89a18bb@DeskJara> >> (a BEAUTIFUL piece of hardware) > As compared to, say, a Tandon or Conner hard card? Were any hard > cards made with the 2.5" Prairietek hard drives? I just like it, a long black slab :) I had one made with a half-height 3 1/2 HD. but the hardcard is beautiful, I do love that. From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Thu Mar 19 16:33:33 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <480270.62997.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <480270.62997.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > Where do you find them? A few years ago someone in comp.os.cpm posted that he had some stuff to give away, among them a couple IMSAI 8080 machines. The catch was that I also take away a moving-van full of other stuff in his backyard shed. That makes up the bulk of what I sell on ebay. It's not organized very well, so I'm never sure when I'll find something really good. I've found four of these 68k boards so far. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From cclist at sydex.com Thu Mar 19 17:43:54 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:43:54 -0700 Subject: NEC V20 files Message-ID: <49C2683A.17123.BC01219@cclist.sydex.com> Awhile back, there was a discussion about the NEC V20 CPU and someone asked about a couple of NEC-origin files. While looking for something else, I stumbled upon an old disk from NEC's Natick operation, given to me by Rich Naro. There is a V20 DEBUG program, some macros, a benchmark and some CP/M files to be run under the CPMulator program, but this disk does not include that program. If anyone's interested, drop me an email and I'll send a zip of the disk contents. AFAIK it is not proprietary, nor is it copyrighted material; merely something sent to NEC's customers. Cheers, Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Thu Mar 19 17:45:44 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:45:44 -0700 Subject: Interleaf training mauals available Message-ID: <49C268A8.6577.BC1BDB6@cclist.sydex.com> I've got training manuals for Sun Interleaf 2.5 and 3.0, if anyone's interested. Yours for the cost of shipping. Cheers, Chuck From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Mar 19 18:01:25 2009 From: arcarlini at iee.org (arcarlini at iee.org) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:01:25 -0000 Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings In-Reply-To: <49C26226.6090001@cimmeri.com> Message-ID: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org wrote: > Search online for EK-104AA-TM-001, AZ-GLNAB-MN, and > AZ-GLFAB-MN. I found all these online for my QVSS, just > don't remember from where. I've scanned all the MicroVAX II/Vaxstation II doc sets that I had and they are all up on Manx. I'm reasonably sure that both QDSS and QVSS technical manuals are kicking around on there ... Antonio From rescue at hawkmountain.net Thu Mar 19 18:40:37 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:40:37 -0400 Subject: DEC Rainbow Interest Message-ID: <49C2D7F5.70103@hawkmountain.net> Any interest out there in a DEC Rainbow. I may have one available. It's front badge is missing, but it does have memory expansion, hard drive controller, and 10M ST412 hard drive (and of course the DEC dual floppy drive). I do not have keyboard, video cable, or monitor. I can't verify full operation of the system due to that, but powering it on hd spins up (bearings may be a little noisy... I don't recall how 'quiet' an ST412 should be anymore :-) ). It does try to boot from floppy (but of course I have no floppy). It is very clean inside. Exterior isn't bad beyond the missing badge and a bit of yellowing on the floppy drive front. If you want to make any offers, that's cool. Also willing to trade/partial trade for VT-78/WA (WT78), DecMate I, DecMate II, DecMate III, DecMate III+, NeXT color or turbo color cube or slab, anything PDP-8, PDP-11/93 cpu board, any blinking lights/switches PDP11, Sun 1 (yeah, I might as well dream :-) ), Sun 2, Apple PowerMac G4 Cube, Atari 1200XL, Amiga 4000, Amiga 1200 -- Curt From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 21:39:14 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <654431.64829.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ha, ha I remember that post and probably the only reason you beat to that stuff was because I could not get the time down to drive from the NYC area to pick it up. Great catch. --- On Thu, 3/19/09, David Griffith wrote: From: David Griffith Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 5:33 PM On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > Where do you find them? A few years ago someone in comp.os.cpm posted that he had some stuff to give away, among them a couple IMSAI 8080 machines. The catch was that I also take away a moving-van full of other stuff in his backyard shed. That makes up the bulk of what I sell on ebay. It's not organized very well, so I'm never sure when I'll find something really good. I've found four of these 68k boards so far. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Thu Mar 19 21:55:37 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <654431.64829.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <654431.64829.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > Ha, ha I remember that post and probably the only reason you beat to > that stuff was because I could not get the time down to drive from the > NYC area to pick it up. I wasn't fully aware of the sheer size of the collection at the time. I thought I could drive out there over a few weekends to get it all. For the third trip I rented a uhaul truck. This was stuff collected by Don Harris and Rlee Peters out in Ridgecrest. You can browse through the CDROM assembled by Rlee at http://z80cpu.eu/ among other places. I included with the P112 kits (which will be offered again when I get the time/space). -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 23:57:29 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I am not some much as a collector of these old systems as I am a user. Any board I have I actually use for something. Nothing sits around collecting dust. I have actually been know to give away boards I don't physically use. Actually I just gave away 60 lbs box of boards and misc parts. So these days I have exactly the boards I use along with a large collection of IC to fix the boards. Remember a persons becomes someone else's junk when you past away. So I am a minimalist if it is not used regularly, out the door it goes Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. Later Michael --- On Thu, 3/19/09, David Griffith wrote: From: David Griffith Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 10:55 PM On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > Ha, ha I remember that post and probably the only reason you beat to that stuff was because I could not get the time down to drive from the NYC area to pick it up. I wasn't fully aware of the sheer size of the collection at the time. I thought I could drive out there over a few weekends to get it all. For the third trip I rented a uhaul truck. This was stuff collected by Don Harris and Rlee Peters out in Ridgecrest. You can browse through the CDROM assembled by Rlee at http://z80cpu.eu/ among other places. I included with the P112 kits (which will be offered again when I get the time/space). -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 00:52:51 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:52:51 -0400 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Michael Hart wrote: > Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. I'm interested in hearing more about your Linux port. I don't have any S-100 stuff (I gave away everything I got from Software Results years ago), but I do still have a pile of our 68000 and 68010-based products, the schematics, PAL equations, application and firmware source, etc. I have enough boards that if there was something interesting to do with them (besides being intelligent Qbus, Unibus and VAXBI synchronous serial controllers), I could blow some new firmware and turn them into hobby boards. As it is, all of our products were designed to have a "payload" application dumped onto them when starting a new serial link, so the ROM code is pretty much only smart enough for simple diagnostics and receiving a new "front end program". We didn't have an OS, just a monolithic app for each board and serial protocol (HASP, 3780, and SNA PU Type 2). The earliest boards (c. 1982) really just run a state machine written in assembler to pump serial streams out the serial chip and blocked data over the Unibus DMA interface, and occasionally something out the printer port. Later stuff got much more involved and had much more memory, more ports, etc. With all that time spent in that realm, I'm always interested in hearing what folks are doing with the 68K. -ethan From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 01:22:02 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:22:02 -0700 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: References: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Michael Hart wrote: >> Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. > > I'm interested in hearing more about your Linux port. ?I don't have > any S-100 stuff (I gave away everything I got from Software Results > years ago), but I do still have a pile of our 68000 and 68010-based > products, the schematics, PAL equations, application and firmware > source, etc. ?I have enough boards that if there was something > interesting to do with them (besides being intelligent Qbus, Unibus > and VAXBI synchronous serial controllers), I could blow some new > firmware and turn them into hobby boards. > > As it is, all of our products were designed to have a "payload" > application dumped onto them when starting a new serial link, so the > ROM code is pretty much only smart enough for simple diagnostics and > receiving a new "front end program". ?We didn't have an OS, just a > monolithic app for each board and serial protocol (HASP, 3780, and SNA > PU Type 2). ?The earliest boards (c. 1982) really just run a state > machine written in assembler to pump serial streams out the serial > chip and blocked data over the Unibus DMA interface, and occasionally > something out the printer port. ?Later stuff got much more involved > and had much more memory, more ports, etc. > > With all that time spent in that realm, I'm always interested in > hearing what folks are doing with the 68K. Not that this is on the same topic, but I've always wondered about the boards from companies like Sritek... if memory serves, they (and at least one other company) had these 680x0 (or in some cases, NS32x32) based ISA boards for PCs that allowed you to run BSD Unix (or another Unix port), using the PC for I/O and storage. When these were on the market, I could never afford one, and I only remember the advertisements. Has anyone ever played with one of these (or even remember them)? Mark From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Mar 20 01:46:25 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:46:25 -0700 Subject: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings In-Reply-To: References: <49C1F6AF.1000709@mail.msu.edu>, <49C20E73.4040504@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <49C33BC1.8060006@mail.msu.edu> I'll check there, thanks for the suggestion. For the time being I soldered on a pair of RCA connectors and have the bulkhead/QVSS connected via a standard RCA cable (easily removed) and it appears to work. So, huzzah! Josh Ian King wrote: > Have you asked at Vetco? From memory I think I know what connector you're talking about and I'm pretty sure I've seen it there. -- Ian > ________________________________________ > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Josh Dersch [derschjo at mail.msu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 AM > To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Looking for DEC QVSS (M7602) manual or dip-settings > > Ah, never mind -- was just taking a closer look at the board and found a > tiny tiny coax video connector on both the QVSS board and the bulkhead. > Looks like this must carry the video signal. Not sure what kind of > connector that is... anyone know? (I can provide pictures if necessary...) > > Thanks, > Josh > > Josh Dersch wrote: > >> Got myself a QVSS video board that I'd like to run in my MicroVAX II, >> but either it's configured incorrectly or it doesn't work. Anyone >> have a manual scanned or a list of the dip-switch settings for this? >> I can't find any useful info on the 'net. >> >> Symptoms are that the Keyboard responds (beeps at power up, I can hear >> the keyclick when I type, and the VAX seems to be responding to input) >> but I get no video or sync on the monitor (a VR262). Monitor, >> keyboard, and cable all work fine on my MicroVAX 2000, so something >> must be up with the QVSS. >> >> Thanks, >> Josh >> >> >> > > > > > From roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk Fri Mar 20 07:22:08 2009 From: roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk (Roger Holmes) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:22:08 +0000 Subject: Flexowriter lubrication In-Reply-To: <200903200656.n2K6rjbr028193@dewey.classiccmp.org> References: <200903200656.n2K6rjbr028193@dewey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> None of my recent posts have made it into the digests (probably because Hewlett Packard sent me a security certificate) but most topics are now stale so I wont bore you with things like 160 column cards, but I will retry this one: One of my Flexowriters has just had its mains cable replaced and then turned on for the first time in about 25 years. Apart from surface rust and the printing levers not going back down, and the ribbon breaking, it seemed to work fine. Does anyone know what grade(s) of oils/greases to use on which parts? The rubber parts and carriage return band even seem good but would probably not appreciate dunking the whole thing in oil. I guess WD40 or "3 in 1" oil would be out because I've been told they both leave a residue. I have not seen anyone selling 'light machine oil' for a few years here in the UK but there must be a modern version surely. From james at jdfogg.com Fri Mar 20 07:32:36 2009 From: james at jdfogg.com (James Fogg) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Flexowriter lubrication In-Reply-To: <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> References: <200903200656.n2K6rjbr028193@dewey.classiccmp.org> <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> Message-ID: <2812.192.168.99.142.1237552356.squirrel@webmail.jdfogg.com> > One of my Flexowriters has just had its mains cable replaced and then > turned on for the first time in about 25 years. Apart from surface > rust and the printing levers not going back down, and the ribbon > breaking, it seemed to work fine. Does anyone know what grade(s) of > oils/greases to use on which parts? The rubber parts and carriage > return band even seem good but would probably not appreciate dunking > the whole thing in oil. I guess WD40 or "3 in 1" oil would be out > because I've been told they both leave a residue. I have not seen > anyone selling 'light machine oil' for a few years here in the UK but > there must be a modern version surely. Sewing machine oil is a good choice. I have no specific experience with the Flexowriter, but with typewriters in general. You need a very light oil that doesn't gum up and doesn't attract dirt. WD40 isn't really a good lubricant for anything, but does an excellent job of cleaning parts and stripping oils and gums. A heavy oil won't reach tiny clearances and will attract much more filth. Sewing machines share the same challenges as typewriters, including an environment where there is "fluff" generated. Thread constantly sheds tiny fibers and so does paper. -- James - Certified autodidactic polymath and proud of it! From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Mar 20 07:52:02 2009 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:52:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: Flexowriter lubrication In-Reply-To: <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> References: <200903200656.n2K6rjbr028193@dewey.classiccmp.org> <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Mar 2009, Roger Holmes wrote: > One of my Flexowriters has just had its mains cable replaced and then turned > on for the first time in about 25 years. Apart from surface rust and the > printing levers not going back down, and the ribbon breaking, it seemed to > work fine. Does anyone know what grade(s) of oils/greases to use on which > parts? The rubber parts and carriage return band even seem good but would Have a look at the Flexowriter Operation and Adjustment Manual, section VI, chapter 3. The manual can be found here: ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/friden/Flexowriter_OperationAndAdjustment.pdf Christian From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Fri Mar 20 09:23:31 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <482685.18556.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <669392.19860.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Well, the way things are going my port of LINUX maybe to some CPU other than the 68000. I am rather frustrated with people contacting me telling me that they have 68000 IEEE-696 boards; some even have several. All of these board sitting around gathering dust for years seems rather immoral to me especially when these people have several and don't even know how to or have the inclination in using them for anything. Please don't contact me telling me about your wonderful 68000 IEEE-696 board unless you are interested in exchanging/selling it. I mean what is the point? It is like showing me a piece of crappy art work that ONLY YOU think is beautiful. Michael Hart I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Michael Hart wrote: From: Michael Hart Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:46 AM Hi all ? Is there anyone or you know of anyone who is willing to part with a CompuPro 68000 base? IEEE-696 (S100) board. I am also interested in any 680x0 base IEEE-696 board that I can readily find documentation for my new project. Thanks for whatever help you maybe able to offer. Michael From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Fri Mar 20 09:49:45 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <126591.89509.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Ethan ?? The LINUX port is for a very practical purposes. That being, the ability to show a high level of competence in LINUX kernel and LINUX device driver development. Hopefully this will make it easier for me to get contract doing that type of work. It is an area of software development I would like get back to. I have too many years in the financial industry and would like to get back to my roots for the rest of my career even if it means taking a significant pay cut. Actually what I would love getting into is one of those interesting DOD/DOE project. Finally it will be a fun project for me putting the last of my unused IEEE-696 boards to use. I have not intension of becoming a pack rat like so many of my fellow collector of this old stuff.? If I did not have that rule my apartment would become cluttered with lots of stuff I never get around to using. You can get a feel to what my work space looks like now by viewing URL ?http://www.michael-george-hart.com/computerscience/index.html The ALTAIR 8800b in the page is probably the only thing I may not get to by years end. Well, that is all there is to it. Michael. , the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Ethan Dicks wrote: From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 1:52 AM On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Michael Hart wrote: > Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. I'm interested in hearing more about your Linux port. I don't have any S-100 stuff (I gave away everything I got from Software Results years ago), but I do still have a pile of our 68000 and 68010-based products, the schematics, PAL equations, application and firmware source, etc. I have enough boards that if there was something interesting to do with them (besides being intelligent Qbus, Unibus and VAXBI synchronous serial controllers), I could blow some new firmware and turn them into hobby boards. As it is, all of our products were designed to have a "payload" application dumped onto them when starting a new serial link, so the ROM code is pretty much only smart enough for simple diagnostics and receiving a new "front end program". We didn't have an OS, just a monolithic app for each board and serial protocol (HASP, 3780, and SNA PU Type 2). The earliest boards (c. 1982) really just run a state machine written in assembler to pump serial streams out the serial chip and blocked data over the Unibus DMA interface, and occasionally something out the printer port. Later stuff got much more involved and had much more memory, more ports, etc. With all that time spent in that realm, I'm always interested in hearing what folks are doing with the 68K. -ethan From lproven at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 10:22:17 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:22:17 +0000 Subject: Free small IDE drives, London, England Message-ID: <575131af0903200822l68d9933bp77a69bf37a2f8485@mail.gmail.com> Anyone want small IDE disks? I have about half a dozen on offer. All are IDE interface - I have 2 or 3 120MB drives, 1 x 105MB, 1 x 170MB, and a few others in the range of 300-700MB. Happy to post but P&P will be expensive as they're heavy. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 20 13:49:31 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:49:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: from "J. David Bryan" at Mar 19, 9 04:44:27 pm Message-ID: > If you do, I have written an inverse assembler for E/F microcode that I > could run on the ROM images. I've used it successfully on the images here: What is the difference between an 'inverse assembler', a 'reverse assembler' and a 'disassemler'? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 20 14:06:43 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:06:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Flexowriter lubrication In-Reply-To: <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> from "Roger Holmes" at Mar 20, 9 12:22:08 pm Message-ID: > One of my Flexowriters has just had its mains cable replaced and then > turned on for the first time in about 25 years. Apart from surface > rust and the printing levers not going back down, and the ribbon > breaking, it seemed to work fine. Does anyone know what grade(s) of > oils/greases to use on which parts? The rubber parts and carriage > return band even seem good but would probably not appreciate dunking > the whole thing in oil. I guess WD40 or "3 in 1" oil would be out > because I've been told they both leave a residue. I have not seen Well WD40 is _NOT_ a luricant, no matter what the adverts say. It's a water displacer. It's great for keepin rust of your stock of steel rods, and for the garden gate hinge, but not for machinery. 3-in-1 is probaly OK, but there are better choices. > anyone selling 'light machine oil' for a few years here in the UK but > there must be a modern version surely. There are _many_ grades and types of lubircant made that are not easy to find. For the flexowriter, I'd used a high melting point grease (like Castrol LM) on the carriage escapement ball races, the spring clutches (IIRC these have grease nipples on them) and the carriage slides. For the oilite bushes, I might use something like the Esso 'Nutto' oil that Myford sella for their lathe bearings, etc. The speeds are somewhat similar. But that's because I have that one 'in stock'. For everything else, I like a good clock oil. Again, it's something I have on the shelf for lubricating small machines. -tony From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Mar 20 14:34:21 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:34:21 -0500 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C3EFBD.4080908@pacbell.net> Tony Duell wrote: >> If you do, I have written an inverse assembler for E/F microcode that I >> could run on the ROM images. I've used it successfully on the images here: > > What is the difference between an 'inverse assembler', a 'reverse > assembler' and a 'disassemler'? > > -tony > spelling From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Fri Mar 20 15:12:01 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:12:01 -0400 Subject: Flexowriter lubrication References: <2687DD29-5507-473C-BC6E-EDB6A05F8BC5@microspot.co.uk> Message-ID: <18883.63633.717578.354970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: Tony> For the oilite bushes, I might use something like the Esso Tony> 'Nutto' oil that Myford sella for their lathe bearings, Tony> etc. The speeds are somewhat similar. But that's because I have Tony> that one 'in stock'. Tony> For everything else, I like a good clock oil. Again, it's Tony> something I have on the shelf for lubricating small machines. Sewing machine oil is, I think 20 weight oil. That's a bit like the stuff I'd pour into my lathe but thinner, and it seems like a plausible lubricant for any small machinery. Another good option, at least in some countries where it's easily available, might be gun oil. You'd want just oil, not the oil plus cleaner combination stuff. paul From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Mar 20 15:12:10 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:12:10 -0300 Subject: Flexowriter lubrication References: Message-ID: <021401c9a998$7783f6b0$47b519bb@DeskJara> > Well WD40 is _NOT_ a luricant, no matter what the adverts say. It's a > water displacer. It's great for keepin rust of your stock of steel rods, > and for the garden gate hinge, but not for machinery. Lets get it straight here: WD40 **is** an oil, but NO WAY apropriated to lubrificate rotating joints and like. It is SO THIN that the only utility it has is to create a very thin film of silicone oil to displace water (hence the name) and protect against humidity/rust. :o) Alexandre, PU1BZZ From cclist at sydex.com Fri Mar 20 16:11:32 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:11:32 -0700 Subject: What's needed for a minimal HP-1000 series E/(F?) system? In-Reply-To: References: from "J. David Bryan" at Mar 19, 9 04:44:27 pm, Message-ID: <49C3A414.18170.94DC94@cclist.sydex.com> On 20 Mar 2009 at 18:49, Tony Duell wrote: > What is the difference between an 'inverse assembler', a 'reverse > assembler' and a 'disassemler'? Inverse assembler: R E L B M E S S A Reverse assembler: RELBMESSA Disassembler: A S S E M B L E R --Chuck From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Mar 20 16:40:32 2009 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:40:32 -0700 Subject: Large S-100 systems (was Re: CompuPro CPU-68000) In-Reply-To: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49C40D50.9070109@crash.com> Michael Hart wrote: > > Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the > S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am > having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. Interesting... On my list of fun ideas is porting some flavor of *NIX to a CompuPro 32016-based system. I've got the CPU board stashed away, and enough other CP/Viasyn parts to make a go of it, except perhaps mass storage. I'd have to borrow the DISK3 from an 8/16 system, or puzzle out one of the random "SCSI" cards I picked up along the way... Finding a 1MB RAM24 would be tough, let alone more than one. I recall seeing other large boards advertised in Micro Cornucopia in the late 80s, but haven't ever run across that generation (386 era) of S-100 gear since or in person. I might play along at home on a big RAM board project. --Steve. From innfoclassics at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 16:51:23 2009 From: innfoclassics at gmail.com (Paxton Hoag) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:51:23 -0700 Subject: dec vaxen on GSA auctions (NASA JPL) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > MicroVAX II > VAXstation II > MicroVAX II > RA60 > VR260 > C.ITOH CIT-101 terminal > C.ITOH CIT-224 terminal > > buncha other stuff... looks like 10 pallets of stuff I miss having the space to buy stuff like this. I use to buy from GSA in the 90s when I had a warehouse. Thanks for the link. I found a printer in Astoria (where I live) that I bought yesterday. It is a TI 880 Dot Matrix printer with a stand. One of the workhorses of the industry. I am going to have to get back to following the GSA sales. Paxton -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Fri Mar 20 16:57:48 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <990823.83531.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > I am not some much as a collector of these old systems as I am a user. > Any board I have I actually use for something. Nothing sits around > collecting dust. > > I have actually been know to give away boards I don't physically use. > Actually I just gave away 60 lbs box of boards and misc parts. So these > days I have exactly the boards I use along with a large collection of IC > to fix the boards. > > Remember a persons becomes someone else's junk when you past away. So I > am a minimalist if it is not used regularly, out the door it goes > > Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the > S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am having > getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. Think about it this way: the act of designing and producing your own memory board will be good experience to cite when shopping a resume around. If you start with a prototyping S100 board to get all the live testing done, then you probably won't need to make more than one or two PCB prototypes. Furthermore, check out sparkfun.com for their batchpcb.com service. The turnaround time is long, but it's cheap. They don't do gold fingers though. Wasn't someone talking about making S100 prototype cards some time ago? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 17:02:24 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:02:24 -0700 Subject: dec vaxen on GSA auctions (NASA JPL) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Paxton Hoag wrote: > I miss having the space to buy stuff like this. I use to buy from GSA > in the 90s when I had a warehouse. > > Thanks for the link. I found a printer in Astoria (where I live) that > I bought yesterday. It is a TI 880 Dot Matrix printer with a stand. > One of the workhorses of the industry. > > I am going to have to get back to following the GSA sales. I was checking out some of the auctions on the site and there are some at NASA Ames that look interesting. Since I've never bid/bought anything from this site, does anyone have any pointers/warnings/helpful info to pass along? Thanks. Mark Davidson mdavidson1963 at gmail.com From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Fri Mar 20 18:19:44 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Large S-100 systems (was Re: CompuPro CPU-68000) In-Reply-To: <49C40D50.9070109@crash.com> Message-ID: <418382.50935.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Contact? Michael Louie of Microcomputer? Solutions for the Disk 3. The will give you a good price. I think that he said that he still have one in it original bag along with all its documentation. He definitely has two RAM-22. The other 3 he is holding for me at this time and given my thought of late to design and build my own 16 MB NV RAM I may be giving up my claim on those 3 RAM 22 boards. Michael is a very good source for new and used CompuPro Boards. I have a Super I/O Controller board that I got bought from Harte. It has EIDE interface and tera byte drives a cheap these days about $90 for a terabyte drive. The board that will be the core of the port are INTERFACER 4, System Support 1, Disk 1A and Super I/O Controller. The CPU type I have not settled on yet. I am hoping it will be 680x0 Currently I am doing research on porting LINUX to a non-pc platform. The project is not slated to start until after the "Trenton Computer Festival" next month. I am hoping to find some boards of interest there. I haven't been there in more than 16 years but I hear you can still get lucky. I will be documentation how I do the port, if that is going to be helpful. Michael --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Steven M Jones wrote: From: Steven M Jones Subject: Large S-100 systems (was Re: CompuPro CPU-68000) To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 5:40 PM Michael Hart wrote: > > Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the > S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am > having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. Interesting... On my list of fun ideas is porting some flavor of *NIX to a CompuPro 32016-based system. I've got the CPU board stashed away, and enough other CP/Viasyn parts to make a go of it, except perhaps mass storage. I'd have to borrow the DISK3 from an 8/16 system, or puzzle out one of the random "SCSI" cards I picked up along the way... Finding a 1MB RAM24 would be tough, let alone more than one. I recall seeing other large boards advertised in Micro Cornucopia in the late 80s, but haven't ever run across that generation (386 era) of S-100 gear since or in person. I might play along at home on a big RAM board project. --Steve. From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Fri Mar 20 18:36:28 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <542963.6135.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> You know the hiring managers I normally talk to have no knowledge of hardware design. So even if I am showing off my electrical engineering prowest by implementing a IEEE-696 memory board. I have the Protel product (www.protel.com), a $4500 piece of software back in 1999/2000 which became Altium (http://www.altium.com/) used to design the most sophisticated hardware. The manufacturing of the boards I understand have become quite cheap. Anyway thank for URL. But remember I am primarily as very senior software developer with lots of hardware know how. So how would that hardware know how be exploited in getting me contracts? At least that has not been the interest when people look at me. But still it is a skill I would one day like to exploite in getting a contract Michael --- On Fri, 3/20/09, David Griffith wrote: From: David Griffith Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 5:57 PM On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Michael Hart wrote: > I am not some much as a collector of these old systems as I am a user. > Any board I have I actually use for something. Nothing sits around collecting dust. > > I have actually been know to give away boards I don't physically use. Actually I just gave away 60 lbs box of boards and misc parts. So these days I have exactly the boards I use along with a large collection of IC to fix the boards. > > Remember a persons becomes someone else's junk when you past away. So I am a minimalist if it is not used regularly, out the door it goes > > Now that you mentioned I think I may revisit making a 16MB board for the S100 bus for my upcoming LINUX port. The amount of headache I am having getting what I want is becoming a bit too much. Think about it this way: the act of designing and producing your own memory board will be good experience to cite when shopping a resume around. If you start with a prototyping S100 board to get all the live testing done, then you probably won't need to make more than one or two PCB prototypes. Furthermore, check out sparkfun.com for their batchpcb.com service. The turnaround time is long, but it's cheap. They don't do gold fingers though. Wasn't someone talking about making S100 prototype cards some time ago? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From innfoclassics at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 22:37:43 2009 From: innfoclassics at gmail.com (Paxton Hoag) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:37:43 -0700 Subject: dec vaxen on GSA auctions (NASA JPL) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I was checking out some of the auctions on the site and there are some > at NASA Ames that look interesting. I thought that too. For me the sun lot... > Since I've never bid/bought > anything from this site, does anyone have any > pointers/warnings/helpful info to pass along? > Inspect if you can make it to one. Few people do and it can easily get you an edge. Often they won't let you tear the pallets wrap open but it gives you an idea of what really is in the lot. And to estimate how much truck or trailer space is needed to move the lot. check for missing screws, cases opened & read the stickers on the equipment. Call ahead for both inspections and pickups. GSA usually requires that. Ask if they have a forklift or loading dock to load. If not bring a truck with a lift gate (preferably a railgate) and a pallet jack. A low trailer works for just a few pallets when they don't have a loading dock. Check to see if the pallets are secure. While they are shrink wrapped often they can move around in travel. Strap well. I have never bought anything from Ames, just here in the northwest. If it is a military base they often have special access rules. Again call ahead. Good Luck Paxton -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 21 14:13:13 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:13:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: from "David Griffith" at Mar 20, 9 02:57:48 pm Message-ID: > Think about it this way: the act of designing and producing your own > memory board will be good experience to cite when shopping a resume > around. If you start with a prototyping S100 board to get all the live Where the heck do you find employers who actually want people who can design hardware for vintage computers ? One of those would solve several of my problems... -tony From cclist at sydex.com Sat Mar 21 14:38:39 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:38:39 -0700 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: References: from "David Griffith" at Mar 20, 9 02:57:48 pm, Message-ID: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> On 21 Mar 2009 at 19:13, Tony Duell wrote: > Where the heck do you find employers who actually want people who can > design hardware for vintage computers ? One of those would solve > several of my problems... Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is the hot one. --Chuck From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 14:50:22 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:50:22 -0400 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to > spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is > the hot one. The modern process is easy... o Pick up the soldering iron o Does it hurt? o If so, put it down and pick it up somewhere else o Repeat as necessary -ethan From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sat Mar 21 15:06:19 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:06:19 -0300 Subject: Which way to go, from now on? References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> Ok, now what? I had most of the 8 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil I had most of the 16 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil I had most of the 32 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil I had most of the 64 (!) bits' computers avaiable in Brazil I'd like to find a new journey. I was thinking about S100 computers, but it is too expensive to play. I cannot find S-100 connectors here in Brazil and boards to play are almost inexistent here. Any suggestion of a nice project to keep me entertained? :o) Thanks Alexandre From lproven at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 15:13:52 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:13:52 +0000 Subject: Which way to go, from now on? In-Reply-To: <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <575131af0903211313g5d338aa4o97374e48a9b19494@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/21 Alexandre Souza : > > ? Ok, now what? > ? I had most of the 8 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > ? I had most of the 16 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > ? I had most of the 32 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > ? I had most of the 64 (!) bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > > ? I'd like to find a new journey. I was thinking about S100 computers, but > it is too expensive to play. I cannot find S-100 connectors here in Brazil > and boards to play are almost inexistent here. > > ? Any suggestion of a nice project to keep me entertained? :o) Just a wild idea... How about: not from Brazil? :?) Stick to just Latin America and that will give you more scope, no? -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From ggs at shiresoft.com Sat Mar 21 15:16:35 2009 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:16:35 -0700 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> References: from "David Griffith" at Mar 20, 9 02:57:48 pm, <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <789060E6-E9C1-4316-A261-0A82952C96EE@shiresoft.com> On Mar 21, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 21 Mar 2009 at 19:13, Tony Duell wrote: > >> Where the heck do you find employers who actually want people who can >> design hardware for vintage computers ? One of those would solve >> several of my problems... > > Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to > spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is > the hot one. Well, if the position is for designing ASICs or SOCs then it really is more important to know how to write Verilog/VHDL. The likely hood of actually having to "mod" the board is small, and they'll have "technicians" for that and special stations with the fine temperature controlled soldering irons plus optics to actually see the work. If you're dealing with BGAs then reworks require fairly sophisticated equipment (including being able to do X-Ray scans of the board to check that all of the balls on the BGA are attached properly). There's still a need to "dead bug" some fixes but that's becoming more and more rare. In reality most HW design these days is either with micro-controllers or FPGA/ASICs. The traditional discrete TTL designs are pretty much gone because the designs require small size/high integration or high speed, which you can't really do with discrete TTL (or pick your logic family). And if you're building a number of "widgets" you don't have to have too high volumes before it really is cheaper to do FPGA/ASICs rather than discrete. I'm becoming a big fan of FPGAs for my designs for two principle reasons. One is that I can simulate the design before committing it to actual HW. This finds a huge number of issues. I can also write comprehensive test cases that would be hard to do with actual hardware. The other one is that if I do find something that slips past the simulation then it's a simple problem to update FPGA image. And no you don't have to have megabucks to do this. There are some free (which is what I use) Verilog simulation tools that are quite good (in my very limited experience) and each of the FPGA vendors have free versions of their tools (they are after all trying to sell the parts). Also, many part vendors (non-FPGA, ie RAMs, etc) provide pretty comprehensive models for their parts to be used in simulation so it isn't that hard to simulate an entire design encompassing many different parts. TTFN - Guy From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Mar 21 15:50:09 2009 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:50:09 -0500 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> References: from "David Griffith" at Mar 20, 9 02:57:48 pm, <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> Chuck Guzis wrote: ... > > Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to > spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is > the hot one. > > --Chuck Chuck, that was spoken like a true old-timer, but your derision is laughable. "Hey, you damn verilog coders, get off my lawn!" I'm surprised, as you saw the transition from tubes to transistors to ICs, so it shouldn't shock you that the next evolution of integration requires just as much engineering and intelligence, although the problems to be solved are somewhat different. And believe me, even with hardware jobs consisting of "spewing" verilog code, there is quite a difference in the work of a hardware job and a software job. Some can do either job well, but not many. No doubt there are challenging designs that are done at board level (e.g., DRAM interfaces with a 300ps data cycle time), but most of it is simply connecting together the chips in a prescribed way, kind of like doing a connect the dots drawing. The action these days is inside the chip. From ragooman at comcast.net Sat Mar 21 16:27:10 2009 From: ragooman at comcast.net (Dan Roganti) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:27:10 -0400 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> References: from "David Griffith" at Mar 20, 9 02:57:48 pm, <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <49C55BAE.7070809@comcast.net> Jim Battle wrote: > Chuck Guzis wrote: > ... >> >> Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to >> spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is >> the hot one. >> >> --Chuck > > Chuck, that was spoken like a true old-timer, but your derision is > laughable. "Hey, you damn verilog coders, get off my lawn!" > > I'm surprised, as you saw the transition from tubes to transistors to > ICs, so it shouldn't shock you that the next evolution of integration > requires just as much engineering and intelligence, although the > problems to be solved are somewhat different. > > And believe me, even with hardware jobs consisting of "spewing" > verilog code, there is quite a difference in the work of a hardware > job and a software job. Some can do either job well, but not many. > > No doubt there are challenging designs that are done at board level > (e.g., DRAM interfaces with a 300ps data cycle time), but most of it > is simply connecting together the chips in a prescribed way, kind of > like doing a connect the dots drawing. The action these days is > inside the chip. > Some of the new asic/fpga development have been using C for hardware design, we started using a derivative of C before getting rif'd from Lucent -- saves many lines of code. But nothing beats a schematic :) =Dan [ = http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/ ] From innfoclassics at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 16:34:31 2009 From: innfoclassics at gmail.com (Paxton Hoag) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:34:31 -0700 Subject: Which way to go, from now on? In-Reply-To: <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote: > > ? Ok, now what? > ? I had most of the 8 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > ? I had most of the 16 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > ? I had most of the 32 bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > ? I had most of the 64 (!) bits' computers avaiable in Brazil > > ? I'd like to find a new journey. I was thinking about S100 computers, but > it is too expensive to play. I cannot find S-100 connectors here in Brazil > and boards to play are almost inexistent here. > > ? Any suggestion of a nice project to keep me entertained? :o) > > ? Thanks > ? Alexandre > > > How about Intel Multibus computer systems. They were used in communications, telephone systems and industrial control and I bet could still be found in Brazil. Computer & calculator chips are easy to collect, ship internationally and I bet you could find old ones in process control, communications and telephone systems There are also Telephone systems and Telephones to collect. Also Calculators, especially HP calculators. They were sold worldwide. Paxton -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Sat Mar 21 16:39:22 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <769643.79667.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thank you. Exactly my point. --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Tony Duell wrote: From: Tony Duell Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 3:13 PM > Think about it this way: the act of designing and producing your own > memory board will be good experience to cite when shopping a resume > around. If you start with a prototyping S100 board to get all the live Where the heck do you find employers who actually want people who can design hardware for vintage computers ? One of those would solve several of my problems... -tony From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Sat Mar 21 16:41:35 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <260134.93286.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Agreed. There seems to be very little difference between programming and making a CPU these das. --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Ethan Dicks wrote: From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 3:50 PM On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to > spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is > the hot one. The modern process is easy... o Pick up the soldering iron o Does it hurt? o If so, put it down and pick it up somewhere else o Repeat as necessary -ethan From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Mar 21 16:58:44 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:58:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Cctalk archives unavailable? Message-ID: <450696.24421.qm@web23403.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi, Is it just me, or have the CCtalk archives been removed? I just tried to view them, as I wanted to search for something before posting it to the group. Here's the message I got: Not Found The requested URL /pipermail/cctalk/ was not found on this server. Apache/2.2.9 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8e DAV/2 PHP/5.2.8 with Suhosin-Patch Server at www.classiccmp.org Port 80 I am using Firefox 2.0 (doubt it makes any difference, but you never know) on windows 2k. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk From cclist at sydex.com Sat Mar 21 17:31:32 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:31:32 -0700 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> References: , <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com>, <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <49C50854.16889.526D883@cclist.sydex.com> On 21 Mar 2009 at 15:50, Jim Battle wrote: > Chuck, that was spoken like a true old-timer, but your derision is > laughable. "Hey, you damn verilog coders, get off my lawn!" > > I'm surprised, as you saw the transition from tubes to transistors to > ICs, so it shouldn't shock you that the next evolution of integration > requires just as much engineering and intelligence, although the > problems to be solved are somewhat different. Oh, I was trying to be humorous about it. I write Verilog too; it's fun in its own way. I could just have easily grumbled about code bloat or not knowing how to write machine code (not assembly, but knowing by heart the opcodes and formats of a CPU). Or not being able to read the color codes on 6-dot mica capacitors. Or calling them capacitors instead of condensors. Or not being able to do neat point-to-point wiring using tie strips and waxed cable lacing. Or laying out 14 AWG busbar on mahogany breadboards between surface-mount (meaning that they're attached with woodscrews) components. Times change, and all too frequently, we don't. All we can do is grumble. --Chuck From wdonzelli at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 18:30:54 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:30:54 -0400 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C50854.16889.526D883@cclist.sydex.com> References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> <49C50854.16889.526D883@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: > Or not being able to read the color codes on > 6-dot mica capacitors. Not for nothing, but NOBODY could read the dotted color codes on older capacitors. There was a standard, but pretty much none of the manufacturers stuck to it. The best anyone could hope for was to find two of the dots that looked reasonable (for example, a blue and a grey next to each other), and go from there. Then punt. -- Will From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Sat Mar 21 19:27:38 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C50854.16889.526D883@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <294190.83757.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I interviewed for full time position in a company that develop dedicated super computers with FPGA. or whatever their hight density cousins are called They reworked the back-end of the GCC compiler generated,what I can only imagine to be something near verilog code, (they would not elaborate) so than any application written in C/C++ would directly be use to program FPGA. I remember them boasting that these dedicated Silicon Application would be significantly faster than a bunch of highend CPU running in parallel. Their primay client are DOD. I can see this killing off embedded device development as we currently know it. All you need is a FPGA. Write your application in C/C++ then memory, CPU, etc all get generated automatically. Relatively soon I can only imagine a vey interesting? future; in addition to a standard CPU there will also be a pieces of silicons in you PC your will be become your application whenever load a application. I have not been following FPGA industry but is there any FPGA infinatable reprogrammable? ? Michael. --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: From: Chuck Guzis Subject: Re: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 6:31 PM On 21 Mar 2009 at 15:50, Jim Battle wrote: > Chuck, that was spoken like a true old-timer, but your derision is > laughable. "Hey, you damn verilog coders, get off my lawn!" > > I'm surprised, as you saw the transition from tubes to transistors to > ICs, so it shouldn't shock you that the next evolution of integration > requires just as much engineering and intelligence, although the > problems to be solved are somewhat different. Oh, I was trying to be humorous about it. I write Verilog too; it's fun in its own way. I could just have easily grumbled about code bloat or not knowing how to write machine code (not assembly, but knowing by heart the opcodes and formats of a CPU). Or not being able to read the color codes on 6-dot mica capacitors. Or calling them capacitors instead of condensors. Or not being able to do neat point-to-point wiring using tie strips and waxed cable lacing. Or laying out 14 AWG busbar on mahogany breadboards between surface-mount (meaning that they're attached with woodscrews) components. Times change, and all too frequently, we don't. All we can do is grumble. --Chuck From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Sat Mar 21 19:35:47 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] Message-ID: <966590.83403.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I really need to be able to proof my own writing shhh... >Relatively soon I can only imagine a vey interesting? future; in addition to a standard CPU >there will also be a pieces of silicons in you PC your will be become your application >whenever load a application. should read I can only imagine that relatively soon they typical computer will be very different. In addition to a standard CPU there will also be a pieces of silicon in your PC and those pieces of silicon will become your applications whenever they are loaded. --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Michael Hart wrote: From: Michael Hart Subject: Re: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 8:27 PM I interviewed for full time position in a company that develop dedicated super computers with FPGA. or whatever their hight density cousins are called They reworked the back-end of the GCC compiler generated,what I can only imagine to be something near verilog code, (they would not elaborate) so than any application written in C/C++ would directly be use to program FPGA. I remember them boasting that these dedicated Silicon Application would be significantly faster than a bunch of highend CPU running in parallel. Their primay client are DOD. I can see this killing off embedded device development as we currently know it. All you need is a FPGA. Write your application in C/C++ then memory, CPU, etc all get generated automatically. Relatively soon I can only imagine a vey interesting? future; in addition to a standard CPU there will also be a pieces of silicons in you PC your will be become your application whenever load a application. I have not been following FPGA industry but is there any FPGA infinatable reprogrammable? ? Michael. --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: From: Chuck Guzis Subject: Re: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 6:31 PM On 21 Mar 2009 at 15:50, Jim Battle wrote: > Chuck, that was spoken like a true old-timer, but your derision is > laughable. "Hey, you damn verilog coders, get off my lawn!" > > I'm surprised, as you saw the transition from tubes to transistors to > ICs, so it shouldn't shock you that the next evolution of integration > requires just as much engineering and intelligence, although the > problems to be solved are somewhat different. Oh, I was trying to be humorous about it. I write Verilog too; it's fun in its own way. I could just have easily grumbled about code bloat or not knowing how to write machine code (not assembly, but knowing by heart the opcodes and formats of a CPU). Or not being able to read the color codes on 6-dot mica capacitors. Or calling them capacitors instead of condensors. Or not being able to do neat point-to-point wiring using tie strips and waxed cable lacing. Or laying out 14 AWG busbar on mahogany breadboards between surface-mount (meaning that they're attached with woodscrews) components. Times change, and all too frequently, we don't. All we can do is grumble. --Chuck From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Sat Mar 21 19:43:16 2009 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:43:16 +0000 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <966590.83403.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <966590.83403.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49C589A4.2080102@gjcp.net> Michael Hart wrote: > > I can only imagine that relatively soon they typical computer will be very different. In addition to a standard CPU > there will also be a pieces of silicon in your PC and those pieces of silicon will become your applications whenever they are loaded. > That's already the case in a lot of things. I'm no longer surprised how much "recent" digital audio equipment I look at turns out to be an 8-bit host CPU to handle the knobs and MIDI, a horking great FPGA or DSP chip, some flash and an off-the-shelf DAC. One synth I have could be used as a vocoder by replacing just its firmware ROM (Redsound DarkStar). Gordon From lproven at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 20:19:49 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:19:49 +0000 Subject: Cctalk archives unavailable? In-Reply-To: <450696.24421.qm@web23403.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <450696.24421.qm@web23403.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <575131af0903211819yb7daaadmca2a9bd971085991@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/21 Andrew Burton : > > Hi, > > Is it just me, or have the CCtalk archives been removed? I just tried to view them, as I wanted to search for something before posting it to the group. > Here's the message I got: > > Not Found > The requested URL /pipermail/cctalk/ was not found on this server. > > > Apache/2.2.9 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8e DAV/2 PHP/5.2.8 with Suhosin-Patch Server at www.classiccmp.org Port 80 > > I am using Firefox 2.0 (doubt it makes any difference, but you never know) on windows 2k. > > Regards, > Andrew B > aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Failing for me, too. Firefox 3.0 latest, Ubuntu 8.10. But you really should upgrade to 3.0, you know! -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From drb at msu.edu Sat Mar 21 20:21:34 2009 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:21:34 -0400 Subject: Cctalk archives unavailable? In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:58:44 -0000.) <450696.24421.qm@web23403.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <450696.24421.qm@web23403.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200903220121.n2M1LYDQ009453@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > Is it just me, or have the CCtalk archives been removed? I just tried to > view them, as I wanted to search for something before posting it to the > group. Jay's been migrating stuff to a new server. They may be in transit. De From ray at arachelian.com Sat Mar 21 21:02:06 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:02:06 -0400 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <966590.83403.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <966590.83403.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49C59C1E.9060902@arachelian.com> Michael Hart wrote: > I remember them boasting that these dedicated Silicon Application would be significantly faster than a bunch of highend CPU running in parallel. Their primay client are DOD. > > I can see this killing off embedded device development as we currently know it. All you need is a FPGA. Write your application in C/C++ then memory, CPU, etc all get generated automatically. > Yes, sounds like the perfect thing to build a crypto brute forcing farm with. From billdeg at degnanco.com Sat Mar 21 21:56:46 2009 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B Degnan) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:56:46 -0400 Subject: Looking for Info/OS - ACE Discovery 500 Message-ID: <49C5A8EE.1000002@degnanco.com> I am looking for CP/M Plus or dpc/OS disks for a late S-100 computer made by Action Computer Enterprise, Inc. (ACE) called the Discovery 500 Multiprocessor. My research uncovered a few ads in Byte from late 1983/early 1984 that may not previously have been posted to the web: http://vintagecomputer.net/ace/ACEDiscovery500Ads.pdf The hard drive is toast, so I need an OS/system build disk, or manuals to try to re-construct a CP/M BIOS. Here are some pictures/info I collected: http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=230 Thanks Bill From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 21 22:24:47 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C59C1E.9060902@arachelian.com> References: <966590.83403.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <49C59C1E.9060902@arachelian.com> Message-ID: <20090321202418.M80291@shell.lmi.net> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote: > Yes, sounds like the perfect thing to build a crypto brute forcing farm > with. Such as John Gilmore's "Deep Crack"? From cclist at sydex.com Sat Mar 21 23:29:59 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:29:59 -0700 Subject: Which way to go, from now on? In-Reply-To: <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> References: , <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49C55C57.29541.66F0489@cclist.sydex.com> On 21 Mar 2009 at 17:06, Alexandre Souza wrote: > Any suggestion of a nice project to keep me entertained? :o) VME bus systems? Mutlibus has already been mentioned. --Chuck From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Mar 22 02:26:40 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:26:40 +0100 Subject: Which way to go, from now on? In-Reply-To: <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <20090322082640.f202fae6.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:06:19 -0300 "Alexandre Souza" wrote: > Any suggestion of a nice project to keep me entertained? :o) Build your own computer from TTL chips. You may prototype it with a FPGA implementation. Build new peripherals for old computers. E.g. a QBUS MSCP disk and tape controler for VAXen and PDP-11s that uses SD-Cards as backing storage. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Mar 22 04:05:12 2009 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:05:12 +0100 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 / VHDL vs TTL In-Reply-To: <260134.93286.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <260134.93286.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49C5FF48.5090909@bluewin.ch> Michael Hart wrote: > Agreed. There seems to be very little difference between programming and making a CPU these das. > I would diasagree, having had to debug some hardware made by people who mistook VHDL for a general purpose progamming language. Jos From dm561 at torfree.net Sun Mar 22 05:15:32 2009 From: dm561 at torfree.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:15:32 -0500 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 Message-ID: <01C9AAAD.3B1B9FA0@host-208-72-122-46.dyn.295.ca> -------------Original Message: Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hart Subject: Re: CompuPro CPU-68000 You know the hiring managers I normally talk to have no knowledge of hardware design. So even if I am showing off my electrical engineering prowest by implementing a IEEE-696 memory board. I have the Protel product (www.protel.com), a $4500 piece of software back in 1999/2000 which became Altium (http://www.altium.com/) used to design the most sophisticated hardware. The manufacturing of the boards I understand have become quite cheap. Anyway thank for URL. But remember I am primarily as very senior software developer with lots of hardware know how. So how would that hardware know how be exploited in getting me contracts? At least that has not been the interest when people look at me. But still it is a skill I would one day like to exploite in getting a contract Michael ------------Snarky Comment: Cleaning up your spelling and grammar couldn't hurt in getting those contracts; some people do still care... another michael From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Mar 22 10:26:39 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:26:39 -0400 Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> References: from "David Griffith" at Mar 20, 9 02:57:48 pm, <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <49C55301.8050009@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <2387.1237735599@mini> Jim Battle wrote: >Chuck Guzis wrote: >... >> >> Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to >> spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is >> the hot one. yes. And I certainly hope that never ends, because it creates a (seemingly) endless number of consulting opportunities for me! I love it when "I've never actually used a scope" people run into trouble with their fpga's :-) call me! please! :-) On problem seems to be that there are not as many "generalist" these days who can span hardware, hardware debug and software. Those skills seem so "old school" to many people. But then they try to synthesize & fit their design, and then make it work, they start to appreciate that it's helpful to understand how the transistors connected to the pins actually work. -brad From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun Mar 22 10:34:57 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:34:57 -0700 Subject: CompuPro CPU-68000 / VHDL vs TTL In-Reply-To: <49C5FF48.5090909@bluewin.ch> References: <260134.93286.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <49C5FF48.5090909@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch > > Michael Hart wrote: >> Agreed. There seems to be very little difference between programming and making a CPU these das. >> > I would diasagree, having had to debug some hardware made by people who mistook VHDL for a general purpose progamming language. > > Jos Hi The problem is that things like VHDL and Verilog are really just maps of the silicon territory. They are not a complete definition. When pushing silicon to the speed limits with engineered circuits, there are times when the circuit just doesn't map everything into a descriptive language. Most people think that the ASIC flow is the primary method of creating new processors. That is only true if your not interested in creating the ulimate processor. As mentioned, this flow is great for a large number of embedded processors. The speed needed for these is typically at the lower end of things. I work for a company that creates processors, although we use a high level language to describe the architecture, we create many cicuits that could not be created by an automatic process. We use standard cells when performance isn't needed but many man years goes into optimizing the key circuits. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A From mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com Sun Mar 22 10:48:30 2009 From: mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com (Michael B. Brutman) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:48:30 -0500 Subject: Which way to go, from now on? In-Reply-To: References: <49C4DFCF.20676.4889223@cclist.sydex.com> <046e01c9aa60$ad869330$5d2b19bb@DeskJara> Message-ID: <49C65DCE.20701@brutman.com> Coding ... Getting a development environment setup for a machine can be fairly intensive. Especially if the machine had a few vendors that provided environments. Once you are setup, nothing teaches you more about the machine than trying to wring something useful out of it. ;-0 My favorite example .. the TCP/IP stack that I wrote for DOS. It is part of a long process to put a BBS on my PCjr. I missed the opportunity 20 years ago to have a dialup BBS, so I'm making up for it with a multi-user Telnet BBS. Getting the development environment setup, writing code that works and is stable, and wringing the performance out of it has put me a lot closer to the machine that just powering it on once in a while. Given your collection, you could spend a few lifetimes doing software. Mike From imsaicollector at yahoo.com Sun Mar 22 11:13:54 2009 From: imsaicollector at yahoo.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] In-Reply-To: <2387.1237735599@mini> Message-ID: <653359.61844.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The dumbing down of America. I live within a mile of two major Universities, one community college, a law university and a major medical university. So I have the opportunity to interact with a good number of students in a local college coffee shop. One thing that has distressed me in many of my conversation with many students in the last four years is I have yet to encounter any with any interest in their subject other than landing a job (a very important thing all things considered). All of them are just there to get just enough information to land a job. That type of attitude just seems to encourage specialization Case in point is a Physics PHd student I know was taking VHDL course work because it would increase her ability to get a job. Sadly, she was not the only one. Even though her major was Physics she did not see Physics as necessarily being here future profession. All my observations could be a generationaly. Who knows what my elders were thinking about me during my time at university. But when I was doing my studies the though of finding a job base on my studies was never on my mind. For better or worse it was only after I left my so call formal education did anything I was studying have a job related angle. ? --- On Sun, 3/22/09, Brad Parker wrote: From: Brad Parker Subject: Re: Old Timers [was: CompuPro CPU-68000] To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" , "Jim Battle" Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 11:26 AM Jim Battle wrote: >Chuck Guzis wrote: >... >> >> Nowadays many "hardware" positions seem to rely on one's ability to >> spew Verilog or VHDL and not know which end of the soldiering iron is >> the hot one. yes. And I certainly hope that never ends, because it creates a (seemingly) endless number of consulting opportunities for me! I love it when "I've never actually used a scope" people run into trouble with their fpga's :-) call me! please! :-) On problem seems to be that there are not as many "generalist" these days who can span hardware, hardware debug and software. Those skills seem so "old school" to many people. But then they try to synthesize & fit their design, and then make it work, they start to appreciate that it's helpful to understand how the transistors connected to the pins actually work. -brad From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun Mar 22 11:18:35 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:18:35 -0700 Subject: HP 21mx In-Reply-To: <01C9AAAD.3B1B9FA0@host-208-72-122-46.dyn.295.ca> References: <01C9AAAD.3B1B9FA0@host-208-72-122-46.dyn.295.ca> Message-ID: Hi I have a question about micro sequences. If I had the sequence SLA,INA would the skip happen before the INA or after? Would the test for the skip happen before or after the INA? Dwight _____________________________________________________________