From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 11:52:10 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:52:10 +0100 (BST) Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: <4A7328EB.6070600@philpem.me.uk> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 31, 9 06:24:59 pm Message-ID: > Does anyone have a copy of the "SAA5240 user's manual" to hand? > FWIW, I suspect the SAA5243 manual would be just as good, the register > maps seem to be mostly identical... I certainly have the SAA5243 manual around somewhere (it'll take me a little time to find it). AS ever I don't have a scanner, and it's a fairly thick manual, so can you let me know what specifically you're looking for. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 11:53:00 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:53:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <3FAB582B-859C-453D-9F45-FA03CD602B24@neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 31, 9 05:44:25 pm Message-ID: > I find it unfathomable that people would actually use "tools" like > this. Well, I certainly don't use them... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 11:57:12 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:57:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <4A736EA6.5054.BB82BB3@cclist.sydex.com> from "Chuck Guzis" at Jul 31, 9 03:22:30 pm Message-ID: > > I find it unfathomable that people would actually use "tools" like > > this. > > And that includes the battery. > > It depends--I've got a couple of these that I'll toss into a toolbox > if I'm looking for a quick reading or continuity test. If it gets > dropped or eaten by a dog, no biggie. The Fluke stays home. My Fluke goes with me. It's rugged enough to stand up to minor misuse like being dropped (I forget what the spec is for dropping it with the protective band round it, but it's quite a height). > > If someone needed only to take a few readings and didn't have a meter > of any kind, I'd have no problem with him using one of these, > particularly if he first did a "sanity" check (e.g. check the voltage > on a new carbon-zinc cell to see if it was somewhere around 1.5v and > perhaps checked a known good resistor or two). A freind of mine was nearly killed by a cheap DMM. Unknown to him the range swithc had developped a bad contact and would intermittantly read far too low. He checked the voltage on some mains wiring he was working on, it appeared to be dead. He touched it. That's when he found out the meter was malfunctioning. Yes, I know you should check on a known live point, then on the circuit you're working on, then on the known live point again. IIRC, in this case the meter was intermittant and had given good readings a few minutes earlier so he assumed it was OK. The first outcome was he was thrown backwards by the shock. The second outcome was that he bought a Fluke. -tony From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Sat Aug 1 14:48:33 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:48:33 -0500 Subject: FS cheap: PC-related manuals Message-ID: While cleaning I found, still sealed in the original shrink wrap and marked "For Distribution Only With a New PC": Microsoft MS-DOS User's Guide (6.22) Microsoft Windows User's Guide (think it's 3.0 or maybe 3.1) Lotus Organizer Release 1.1 User Manual ... also, unwrapped, but in good shape: ClarisWorks Handbook for Windows DeskMate User's Reference dated 2/91 Please make any reasonable offer (gas & beer money :) if interested, before I pitch them in the dumpster... shipping from zip 65775. thanks Charles From lproven at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 19:40:12 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:40:12 +0100 Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: References: <4A7328EB.6070600@philpem.me.uk> Message-ID: <575131af0908011740w1d90338bpc7b9c54796a717a3@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/1 Tony Duell : > AS ever I don't have a scanner Do you want one? I think I have a spare SCSI one in the attic. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Sat Aug 1 20:01:13 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:01:13 -0400 Subject: Anyone been in touch with Jay West? Message-ID: <4A74E559.8040204@compsys.to> I have sent 3 private e-mails to Jay West in the past week, but no reply. I know he is often too busy to respond, so it might take a while. Has anyone been in touch with Jay in the past few days? Jerome Fine From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 1 20:43:04 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:43:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Anyone been in touch with Jay West? In-Reply-To: <4A74E559.8040204@compsys.to> Message-ID: <582369.84980.qm@web23407.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Doesn't he normally drop into the IRC chat regularly? Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Jerome H. Fine wrote: From: Jerome H. Fine Subject: Anyone been in touch with Jay West? To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Sunday, 2 August, 2009, 2:01 AM I have sent 3 private e-mails to Jay West in the past week, but no reply. I know he is often too busy to respond, so it might take a while. Has anyone been in touch with Jay in the past few days? Jerome Fine From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 01:56:11 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 23:56:11 -0700 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... Message-ID: Ebay item #250475444508 It's listed as a complete PDP-11. I was hoping someone could shed some light on this system, as it looks interesting. Thanks. Mark Davidson mdavidson1963 at gmail.com From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 01:58:32 2009 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 08:58:32 +0200 Subject: Russian emulator announce preliminary PDP11 emulation Message-ID: From: http://soviet-pc.narod.ru/changes.html - added simple script editor with syntax highlighting; - more visible drive icons flashing on access; - preliminary implementation of PDP-11 compatible 16-bit CPU; - added configs of Soviet PDP-11 compatile home comuter "BK-0010.xx". - preliminary implementation of Motorola 68000 32/16-bit CPU; - added config of Sega Genesis console (not workable, to test CPU); - some other small changes, fixes, cleanups and improvements. -- Stephane http://3w.posterous.com From philpem at philpem.me.uk Sat Aug 1 16:40:26 2009 From: philpem at philpem.me.uk (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:40:26 +0100 Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A74B64A.8040602@philpem.me.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > I certainly have the SAA5243 manual around somewhere (it'll take me a > little time to find it). AS ever I don't have a scanner, and it's a > fairly thick manual, so can you let me know what specifically you're > looking for. I think I can figure out >95% of the chip's functionality as-is, but at this point: * Ghost Rows mode (the 5243 appears to call this "Extension Packet Enable" in the R1/Mode register): how does it affect the memory map -- i.e. where are the additional rows stored? To read them, do you just specify Row 30 (say) in R9 (Active Row) before reading from R11 (Active Data)? Is there any effect on the function of the Bank Select and Acq Circuit bits (which seem to provide the upper address bits) if Extension Packets are enabled (the datasheet says you need a 2K RAM if EPE is on, or a 1K without -- which suggests that the upper address outputs might not work as they do in "normal" mode)? * R1 register: permitted states for the T1 and T0 bits. What do the 4 settings (00/01/10/11) do / which ones are valid? * R1 register: TCS -- "Text composite sync or direct sync select". Am I right in thinking this just selects whether the chip syncs the video output to the CVBS input or the signal passed to the TCS/SCS pin? * R2 register: Start Column bits. All the datasheet says is "Start column for page request data"... so what do these do? Cheers, -- Phil. philpem at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 19:22:46 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <301669.28349.qm@web65516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > A freind of mine was nearly killed by a cheap DMM. LOL. And I caught wind of the population of a small midwestern town cut down when a man plugged his 5151 into a CGA card. Kaboom. From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 20:08:16 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <4A736EA6.5054.BB82BB3@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <156231.16047.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > > $2.99 at Harborfreight > > > Good price if there are no critical lethal issues > requiring > > > accuracy. > > > > I find it unfathomable that people would > actually use "tools" like > > this. > > And that includes the battery. incidentally that gets drained crackly dry in all of about 12 minutes upon powering up. Same w/their digital calipers. > It depends--I've got a couple of these that I'll toss into > a toolbox > if I'm looking for a quick reading or continuity > test. If it gets > dropped or eaten by a dog, no biggie. Ick. That pooch you have be real scary. The Fluke stays > home. WONDERFUL. Where the dog has free access! > If someone needed only to take a few readings and didn't > have a meter > of any kind, I'd have no problem with him using one of > these, I do. I most certainly do. You can get a decent meter for 20$. > On the other hand, if a reliable bench tool was needed for > frequent > use, the $3 DVM is clearly not up to the job. The one I bought, to my eternal shame, wasn't up to much at all. It flaked out in other ways, besides eating batteries. > After the Fluke, my next favorite DVM didn't cost a dime--I > received > as a promotion with an order. It's a rubber-sheathed, > backlit auto- > off large-display DVM that will measure temperature, > capacitance and > frequency in addition to the usual A-V-O. I've > dropped it more than > a few times, and it still works fine with perfectly > acceptable > accuracy. There's no moving parts. No reason it shouldn't. I drop my Nextel each and every day. Sit on it. Still works. Truth is I had a ball w/the old style unit I use to use, yer know, with the push buttons. Was real scared of that style of meter until I realized how easy it was to *program*. I actually liked having to think a bit before using it, sort of as a primer. Until the day I done just though wrong and mixed up the setting. Oi. Only payed 15$ for it too. It worked exceptionally well. > Personally, I have a bigger problem with people using cheap > pliers, > screwdrivers and soldering irons than with cheap > DVMs. It's harder > to damage something with a DVM. The point is there happens to be impressionable youth listening in on this conversation. They may actually go out and attempt what some are advocating! From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 20:20:40 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <20090731143348.L92480@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <7954.64901.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Fred Cisin wrote: > > P.S - get a copy of "Inside the IBM PC", Peter Norton. > Has to be PC-era. > I don't agree > > Get a copy of the IBM PC Technical Reference Manual. > Schematics > Source code for the BIOS > > Maybe one of Scott Mueller's R&U The 2nd and 4th suggestions are good ones. The first one isn't likely to lead to any fault finding skills in the immediate. The 3rd one is absolutely goofy!! LOL LOL. What possible help would the bios sources provide for someone trying to troubleshoot a mobo? The point is _most_ of us aren't going to plumb the depths as you or someone like Chuck did in the old days. When your paycheck depends on it, you'll go the extra mile (and this in itself necessitates a lot of skill and/or formal training. And other likeminded individuals to engage in brainstorming sessions). I bought the tech ref for the tandy 2000 as soon as I could, but all it helped me with in the first 6 months was to determine the value of a capacitor that self immolated in the p/s. The average person is not going to learn how to troubleshoot a uP board by reading the tech refs from the getgo, IMHO. I suggested the Sam's Photofact things offlist (can you say test points?). Hopefully as good would be some of the texts that taught troubleshooting as a certificate course. From tiggerlasv at aim.com Sun Aug 2 04:22:08 2009 From: tiggerlasv at aim.com (tiggerlasv at aim.com) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:22:08 -0400 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... Message-ID: <8CBE169D7D71592-19F8-4F27@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> One can't really tell much without opening the back panel, but I will make a guess based on the photos provided in the auction listing, and typical system configurations from the period. It would appear that this is a PDP-11/23+ system. This is based on the basic "Micro PDP-11" medallion on the front panel, and the 2-port cab-kit, which is standard for the 11/23+ only. (11/53's, 11/73's, and 11/83's have single-port cabinet kits.) I see two 4-port cab-kits on there, which, based on the era is most likely a DHV11, but it could be a pair of DZV11's as well. There is a lone connector in one of the "A" slots, which could be just about anything. It sort of looks like the LPV11 cabinet kit with the 37-pin connector, but that is just speculation. The RX50's tell you that there should be an RQDXn controller installed (most likely an RQDX2) which might also indicate the presence of an RD52 or RD53 disk drive behind the front bezel. It probably has an MSV11-P memory card installed, for 512K of ram. The BA23 chassis looks to be the newer style, with black buttons on the front panel. Hopefully this indicates an upgraded power supply harness. Again, these are just the "most probable"; someone could have done some upgrades, but without a peek behind the panel or more information from the e-bay poster, it will be impossible to say for certain. T From pete at dunnington.plus.com Sun Aug 2 07:25:04 2009 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:25:04 +0100 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: <8CBE169D7D71592-19F8-4F27@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBE169D7D71592-19F8-4F27@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4A7585A0.9020101@dunnington.plus.com> On 02/08/2009 10:22, tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote: > > One can't really tell much without opening the back panel, > but I will make a guess based on the photos provided in the auction > listing, > and typical system configurations from the period. > > It would appear that this is a PDP-11/23+ system. You mean a "microPDP-11/23". A PDP-11/23plus would be in a BA11-S box. Same processor board, though, but very different boot ROMs. > This is based on the basic "Micro PDP-11" medallion on the front panel, > and the 2-port cab-kit, which is standard for the 11/23+ only. The badge could be any of the microPDP-11 series, as far as I can see. But it is a 2-port cab kit -- well spotted (on single-port ones the baud rate legend and selector are in the middle, with the DB25 at one end and the LED displays at the other) so unless it's been upgraded this is a KDF11 system, not a KDJ11. > I see two 4-port cab-kits on there, which, based on the era > is most likely a DHV11, but it could be a pair of DZV11's as well. Could even be a couple of DLV11-Js, though that's less likely. > There is a lone connector in one of the "A" slots, > which could be just about anything. It sort of looks like > the LPV11 cabinet kit with the 37-pin connector, > but that is just speculation. Could be; I thought about a DLV11-E or a DPV11, but the connector looks too big for those. Maybe a TQK25 kit, I can't remember what the connector on those was. > The RX50's tell you that there should be an RQDXn controller > installed (most likely an RQDX2) which might also indicate > the presence of an RD52 or RD53 disk drive behind the front bezel. If it were an 11/23 variant it would much more likely be an RQDX1, but that's very similar. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 2 09:33:23 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:33:23 -0700 Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <156231.16047.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <4A736EA6.5054.BB82BB3@cclist.sydex.com>, <156231.16047.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A75A3B3.21689.14577DEB@cclist.sydex.com> On 1 Aug 2009 at 18:08, Chris M wrote: > Ick. That pooch you have be real scary. Actually, he's a sweetheart, a Golden Retreiver. But he's a big boy (70 lean pounds with more growing to do) and only 13 months old. He'll chew on anything if he likes the look of it. The latest was an IDE-CF adapter completely destroyed. It's just the nature of young dogs. > WONDERFUL. Where the dog has free access! Ah, but the dog doesn't--my shop has a self-closing fire door with a lock on it. He doesn't go there and he knows it. Maybe when he's about 4, but not now. > I do. I most certainly do. You can get a decent meter for 20$. Most probably made in China by some outfit that also turns out all manner of unrelated items. Okay, I've got one of the HF ones in front of me. Cen-Tech 7 function digital multimeter; your basic 3 1/2 digit model. Bright yello case, probes have shrouded plugs; no exposed metal--the two screws holding the case together in the rear are recessed about half a cm. I'd prefer tha the holes be plugged or covered, but a little silicone putty will take care of that. Opening it up, very basic; single IC embedded in an epoxy blob; various resistors (some SMT 5%, others 1%. A 500 ma fuse (the normal current readings max out at 199 ma). What looks to be a length of 14 AWG copper wire serving as the 10A shunt. There's a spring extending from the PCB that contacts a small foil shield attached to the inside of the rear case half. Said case is ABS. The battery is a "Li Feng Heavy Duty" and came with the meter, pruchased about 9 months ago for $2.99.. So, is this a terrible meter? No, it's pretty accurate, at least doing an A-B comparison using my bench sources. In fact, it's probably no worse than any of the Radio Shack "Micronta" DMMs that cost 5-10 times as much and probably better than the RS DMMs offered 20 years ago. As a diagnostic tool, it'll probably tell me with little danger that a 5150 has +5, +12, -12 and -5 voltages coming out of the power supply with sufficient accuracy. And if Marley gets his chompers on it, I won't get too upset. --Chuck From toby at coreware.co.uk Sun Aug 2 12:20:17 2009 From: toby at coreware.co.uk (Tobias Russell) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:20:17 +0100 Subject: PDP-8/11 bus interfacing ICs Message-ID: <4A75CAD1.5030803@coreware.co.uk> I've just got some prototyping boards from Douglas Electronics that I'm planning on using to build some prototype cards for my -8s and -11s. My intentions are to develop an interface to a PC to implement some virtual storage devices. If all goes well I'd like produce these cards in small volumes and so I'm keen to use off the shelf components as far as possible. The main problem of course is the bus receivers and drivers as these are pretty much unobtainable as far as I can tell. I'd therefore like to find suitable alternatives. Does anyone have any suggestions of suitable devices? Examples of chips I'm looking to replace are the DEC 8881 driver, DEC 8640 (or DEC 380) receiver. Thanks, Toby -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Aug 2 12:26:30 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MacLynx 2-7-1 sources Message-ID: <200908021726.n72HQU54012832@floodgap.com> Because I have nothing else to do, and because I actually did use MacLynx on my IIsi when all I had was 4MB of RAM and dialup SLIP, I decided to see if I could update MacLynx (which is based on the old Lynx 2-7-1) to something in the 2.8 range. However, I can't find the sources anywhere, and the Wayback Machine copy of the original site truncates the sources (1.5MB) at 1MB. Anyone out there still have a copy of this source code rotting somewhere? -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- What's another word for thesaurus? ----------------------------------------- From lynchaj at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 12:45:36 2009 From: lynchaj at yahoo.com (Andrew Lynch) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 13:45:36 -0400 Subject: N8VEM project status Message-ID: <6EDD11D0199B43FB8ACFF63DFD208BAD@andrewdesktop> Hi All! It's been a while so I thought I'd post an update on the N8VEM home brew computing project. There are now 7 PCBs available for builders to build their own system; the Z80 SBC, ECB backplane, ECB bus monitor, ECB prototyping board, Disk IO (IDE & FDC), Zilog Peripherals (CTC, DART, & dual PIO), and the 6809 host processor. All the boards have been built by multiple builders so by now we know they work and most of the bugs found. There are a variety of builder projects underway and there is always room for new ones. I am presently working on a VDU board for composite character mode video with PS/2 keyboard and mouse support. The prototype is working and the PCB is in trace layout. I am also working with another builder to make a Propeller based IO board called the PropIO. I have a prototype assembled and some functionality. When it is done, it will provide VGA video support, PS/2 keyboard, and micro SD storage. Especially if you've been itching to build that new peripheral board or custom SBC please consider joining us and using the substantial resources available for home brew computing hobbyists. If anyone would like to join the N8VEM project and build their own home brew computer please contact me by email. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Aug 2 13:14:00 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:14:00 -0700 Subject: MacLynx 2-7-1 sources In-Reply-To: <200908021726.n72HQU54012832@floodgap.com> References: <200908021726.n72HQU54012832@floodgap.com> Message-ID: At 10:26 AM -0700 8/2/09, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >Because I have nothing else to do, and because I actually did use MacLynx on >my IIsi when all I had was 4MB of RAM and dialup SLIP, I decided to see if I >could update MacLynx (which is based on the old Lynx 2-7-1) to something in >the 2.8 range. However, I can't find the sources anywhere, and the Wayback >Machine copy of the original site truncates the sources (1.5MB) at 1MB. Anyone >out there still have a copy of this source code rotting somewhere? What year is the source from? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 13:24:45 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <7954.64901.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <7954.64901.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net> > > Get a copy of the IBM PC Technical Reference Manual. > > Schematics > > Source code for the BIOS > > Maybe one of Scott Mueller's R&U On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Chris M wrote: > The 2nd and 4th suggestions are good ones. Sorry, I should have used more than an indent to indicate inclusion. There are NOT 4 suggestions, there are TWO. The IBM PC Technical Reference Manual INCLUDES schematics and source code for the BIOS. BTW, V2.02 had a lot of improvements over V1.0, but when the PS/2 (no, not the Sony) came along, IBM stopped putting a lot of the good stuff in the Tech Ref. > The first one isn't likely > to lead to any fault finding skills in the immediate. The 3rd one is > absolutely goofy!! LOL LOL. What possible help would the bios sources > provide for someone trying to troubleshoot a mobo? Sure helped me a lot. Once I had my 5150, soon thereafter I started trying to build XTs by buying Taiwan bare motherboards (mostly infringinf copies of IBM's) and soldering Augat sockets to them. Since that was also to improve my ability to solder, they did sometimes need troubleshooting. By looking at the boot code in the BIOS, I was able to determine how far it was getting in the boot process, and therefore some hints of what to look at. When P.O.S.T. cards came out, that made that much easier. BTW, "mobo"??? I had an uncle who worked at IBM. I don't particularly rely on anything he said about PCs, but I once asked him WHY IBM would NOT use the term "motherboard". He claimed that it was because some exec had seen on TV a Black Panther speech from Merritt College, and was very upset by the frequent use of "MOTHER-[bleep]", often shortened to just "MOTHER". He might not even have known what was [bleep]ed. BTW, when the 5150 first came out, I started in on twenty years of teaching programming at Merritt College. > The point is _most_ of us aren't going to plumb the depths as you or > someone like Chuck did in the old days. . . . when we walked 10 miles through the snow uphill, both ways, . . . > in brainstorming sessions). I bought the tech ref for the tandy 2000 as > soon as I could, but all it helped me with in the first 6 months was to > determine the value of a capacitor that self immolated in the p/s. The > average person is not going to learn how to troubleshoot a uP board by > reading the tech refs from the getgo, IMHO. I suggested the Sam's > Photofact things offlist (can you say test points?). Hopefully as good > would be some of the texts that taught troubleshooting as a certificate > course. OK In my day, there weren't any good PC troubleshooting guides. The IBM Hardware Reference guide was just a board swapping text! In those days, the Tech Ref was the ONLY reference available. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From tiggerlasv at aim.com Sun Aug 2 13:25:19 2009 From: tiggerlasv at aim.com (tiggerlasv at aim.com) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:25:19 -0400 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... Message-ID: <8CBE1B5B9B74C54-13F4-252@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com> On Sun Aug 2 07:25:04, Pete Turnbull wrote: -- Snip -- You mean a "microPDP-11/23". The badge could be any of the microPDP-11 series, as far as I can see. -- Snip -- The badge appears to say "Micro PDP-11" with no suffixes. 11/73's and 11/83's and 11/93's have their own badges, assuming it wasn't an upgrade. I can't speak to the 11/53. My intent was to just list the most likely contents of the chassis, so the poster could get an approximation of what kind of CPU and device(s) to expect, although I should have been more precise, and said "PDP-11/23+ BASED system", since the "Plus" only calls out the quad board vs the dual. -- Snip -- If it were an 11/23 variant it would much more likely be an RQDX1, but that's very similar. -- Snip -- It was my (mis?) understanding that the later BA23's had the black buttons on the front panel, which to me would suggest the chassis has the FCO'd power harness, and an RQDX2, for RD53 support. But again, this is all speculation. For all we know, there could be an 11/83 in there, with a RQDX3, DHQ11 and SCSI. ;-) T From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 13:41:47 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Crappy meters (Was: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <4A75A3B3.21689.14577DEB@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A736EA6.5054.BB82BB3@cclist.sydex.com>, <156231.16047.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4A75A3B3.21689.14577DEB@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <20090802113554.T81520@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > As a diagnostic tool, it'll probably tell me with little danger that > a 5150 has +5, +12, -12 and -5 voltages coming out of the power > supply with sufficient accuracy. > > And if Marley gets his chompers on it, I won't get too upset. I would worry about what he might swallow, and keep him well supplied with safer chew toys. Fortunately, when Mac was that age, he was much more interested in my shoes than tools. They are one of the very few tools that I own that I will let neighbors, or even cow-orkers, borrow. But, I would use one of my Tripplett's (sp?) instead if I were testing mains wiring. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 13:45:00 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <301669.28349.qm@web65516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <301669.28349.qm@web65516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090802114244.D81520@shell.lmi.net> > > Good price if there are no critical lethal issues requiring accuracy. > A freind of mine was nearly killed by a cheap DMM. Not the right tool for the job, as I mentioned in the caveat. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 13:50:50 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Crappy meters (Was: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <156231.16047.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <156231.16047.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090802114535.S81520@shell.lmi.net> On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Chris M wrote: > incidentally that gets drained crackly dry in all of about 12 minutes > upon powering up. I have had several of the Centech's get reasonable battery life. > Same w/their digital calipers. a tipoff there is the inclusion of a spare battery > I do. I most certainly do. You can get a decent meter for 20$. If somebody has NO electronics tools, even $20 might seem like an investment. $3 lets them destroy a few while they learn what to look for in a REAL meter. > > Personally, I have a bigger problem with people using cheap pliers, > > screwdrivers and soldering irons than with cheap DVMs. It's harder to > > damage something with a DVM. and substantially less prone to injury > The point is there happens to be impressionable youth listening in on > this conversation. They may actually go out and attempt what some are > advocating! Will they REALLY attempt what the old farts talk about? Maybe there is hope, after all. From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Sun Aug 2 14:12:23 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:12:23 +0200 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: <8CBE1B5B9B74C54-13F4-252@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBE1B5B9B74C54-13F4-252@WEBMAIL-DZ34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... > Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 14:25:19 -0400 > From: tiggerlasv at aim.com > > > On Sun Aug 2 07:25:04, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > -- Snip -- > > You mean a "microPDP-11/23". > > The badge could be any of the microPDP-11 series, as far as I can see. > > -- Snip -- > > The badge appears to say "Micro PDP-11" with no suffixes. > > 11/73's and 11/83's and 11/93's have their own badges, > assuming it wasn't an upgrade. I can't speak to the 11/53. Next to my desk is a PDP-11/53 in BA23 ("radiator") box. It does show on the badge "MicroPDP 11/53", not the generic "MicroPDP" badge. - Henk, PA8PDP. From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 2 14:17:53 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:17:53 -0700 Subject: Crappy meters (Was: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <20090802113554.T81520@shell.lmi.net> References: <4A736EA6.5054.BB82BB3@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A75A3B3.21689.14577DEB@cclist.sydex.com>, <20090802113554.T81520@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <4A75E661.31388.155BF117@cclist.sydex.com> On 2 Aug 2009 at 11:41, Fred Cisin wrote: > I would worry about what he might swallow, and keep him well supplied > with safer chew toys. Fortunately, when Mac was that age, he was much > more interested in my shoes than tools. He's got a milk-crate full of them, but something new and shiny gets him interested. Fortunately, he mostly likes to destroy things, rather than swallow them. When he gets tired, he can always chew on Molly, his Black Lab companion. All in good fun. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 14:45:03 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:45:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: <4A74B64A.8040602@philpem.me.uk> from "Philip Pemberton" at Aug 1, 9 10:40:26 pm Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > I certainly have the SAA5243 manual around somewhere (it'll take me a > > little time to find it). AS ever I don't have a scanner, and it's a > > fairly thick manual, so can you let me know what specifically you're > > looking for. > > I think I can figure out >95% of the chip's functionality as-is, but at > this point: > * Ghost Rows mode (the 5243 appears to call this "Extension Packet > Enable" in the R1/Mode register): how does it affect the memory map -- > i.e. where are the additional rows stored? It aLLOCATES 2k OF ram FOR EACH page -- and it's not contiguous. Assuming you have an 8K esternal RAM chip (which is the normal thing to use), then it's A12 that's used to select between the normal (A12=0) and extension packets (A12=1). A11 and A10 are used to allow you to load and display up to 4 pages at the same time. > To read them, do you just specify Row 30 (say) in R9 (Active Row) > before reading from R11 (Active Data)? No You read the 'other' page of RAM as I've just mentioned. The exact format of that 1K block is given in the manual, but here's a summary : Row 0-14 : Packet 26 Sequence 0-14 (Enhanded Dispaly and VPT) 15 : Packet 28 Sequence 2 (COnditional Access) 16-19 : Packet 17 Seqeunce 0-3 (Linked pages) 20 : Packet 24 (Page Extension) 21 : Packet 25 (Page Extension) 22 : Packet 28 Sequence 0 (Data Designation + Colour Def) 23 : Packet 30 Magazine 8 (stored in block 4 only -- Broadcasting Data Sevice Packet) 24 : Packet 28 Sequence 1 (Character Set Designation) 25 : Not Used > Is there any effect on the function of the Bank Select and Acq > Circuit bits (which seem to provide the upper address bits) if Extension > Packets are enabled (the datasheet says you need a 2K RAM if EPE is on, > or a 1K without -- which suggests that the upper address outputs might > not work as they do in "normal" mode)? See above. > > * R1 register: permitted states for the T1 and T0 bits. What do the 4 > settings (00/01/10/11) do / which ones are valid? All are Valid : 00 Interlaced 312/313 linea 01 non-interlaced 312/313 lines 10 non-interlaced 312/312 lines 11 Tioming slaved from another sync source > > * R1 register: TCS -- "Text composite sync or direct sync select". Am > I right in thinking this just selects whether the chip syncs the video > output to the CVBS input or the signal passed to the TCS/SCS pin? Basically, yes. It controls th TCS/ SCS/ output buffer. If you're using it with a SAA5231 (and I suspect you are), it determins where the sync to the TV is TCS (TCS ON = 1) or broadcast sync (TCS ON = 0) > > * R2 register: Start Column bits. All the datasheet says is "Start > column for page request data"... so what do these do? > They define the position first digit of the page number to look for. There are 7 'digits' numbered 0-6, each of 5 bits (which you write into R3). Bit 4 is a 'Do Care' bit for the rest of this digit (so you can, for example, just grab the first page 1XX to come along by having some don't cares). Digit 0 is A Hold/ bit (bit 3) and a 3 bit 'magazine' number. Others are essentially 4 bit values (bits 3-0) in order page 10s. page units, hours 10s, hours units, minutes 10s, minutes units. By using R2, you coul load the unit page value whithout having to sed the magazine and 10s page first. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 14:45:59 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:45:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <301669.28349.qm@web65516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> from "Chris M" at Aug 1, 9 05:22:46 pm Message-ID: > > > > A freind of mine was nearly killed by a cheap DMM. > > LOL. And I caught wind of the population of a small midwestern town I am glad you find electrocution funny. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 14:48:00 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:48:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: <575131af0908011740w1d90338bpc7b9c54796a717a3@mail.gmail.com> from "Liam Proven" at Aug 2, 9 01:40:12 am Message-ID: > > 2009/8/1 Tony Duell : > > > AS ever I don't have a scanner > > Do you want one? I think I have a spare SCSI one in the attic. Only if a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70 iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics) b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it c) Spares are available It's not that I can't get a scanner, it's rather that I can't get a scanner and somethign to connect it to that meets my criteria for a device I will rely on. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 14:55:17 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:55:17 +0100 (BST) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <7954.64901.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> from "Chris M" at Aug 1, 9 06:20:40 pm Message-ID: > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > P.S - get a copy of "Inside the IBM PC", Peter Norton. > > Has to be PC-era. > > I don't agree > > > > Get a copy of the IBM PC Technical Reference Manual. > > Schematics > > Source code for the BIOS > > > > Maybe one of Scott Mueller's R&U > > The 2nd and 4th suggestions are good ones. The first one isn't likely > to lead to any fault finding skills in the immediate. The 3rd one is Err, the IBM< Technical Reference (the 'first one') is the manual that contains the official motherboard schematics. > absolutely goofy!! LOL LOL. What possible help would the bios sources > provide for someone trying to troubleshoot a mobo? A Heck of a lot, actually. If the processor is running, you then hook a logic analyser to the address bus to see _what_ it's running. Now, if the early self-tests fail, you can then follow the execution of said test routines with the logic analyser, look up the appropraite bits of the BIOS source to find what has failed. Done it myself several times > The point is _most_ of us aren't going to plumb the depths as you or > someone like Chuck did in the old days. When your paycheck depends on > it, you'll go the extra mile (and this in itself necessitates a lot of FWIW, I've never been paid to fix anything, but I routinely do things like this. > skill and/or formal training. And other likeminded individuals to engage And I've never had any formal training in electronics or troubleshooting. > in brainstorming sessions). I bought the tech ref for the tandy 2000 as > soon as I could, but all it helped me with in the first 6 months was to > determine the value of a capacitor that self immolated in the p/s. The > average person is not going to learn how to troubleshoot a uP board by > reading the tech refs from the getgo, IMHO. I suggested the Sam's And I suppose the 'average person' is not going to figure out how to get a PDP11 going armed with just the schematics (printset). But that's exactly what I did. The obvious conclusion is that I am not an average person. > Photofact things offlist (can you say test points?). Hopefully as good > would be some of the texts that taught troubleshooting as a certificate > course. I've not seen the Photfacts for the PC, but I have a SAMs manual on repairing the Commodore 1541. It's OK as far as it goes (which is a lot further than most similar books...), but sometime you're going to get a fault which is not really covered, and then you have to use the schematics, use test gear, and think about it. Which you might as well do for any fault. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 15:20:59 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 13:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090802131329.E81520@shell.lmi.net> [scanner] On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote: > Only if > > a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70 > iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics) > > b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it > > c) Spares are available We'll leave a) up to you. We are confident that you could design and build an interface. RS232 style of serial, "Centronics" style of parallel, or [ALMOST] standard SCSI As for c), some are so common that we could ship you enough "spares" to use as bricks to build a shed. Each set of spare parts is connected together identically to the device, so that identifying the individual spare part can be done by where it is mounted in the kit of spares. b) is the stumbling block. Way too much of the USA (and other) industry considers proper service manuals to be a matter of "trade secret"s! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 15:24:02 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 13:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090802132314.T81520@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote: > I am glad you find electrocution funny. It's more like spiritual - some people have changed significant parts of their outlook on life after a solid shock From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 2 15:31:14 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 13:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090802132559.V81520@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote: > > skill and/or formal training. And other likeminded individuals to engage > And I've never had any formal training in electronics or troubleshooting. "formal training"? What little I know about electronics and assembly language was acquired without any formal training. (circuit diagrams and source code were essential) > exactly what I did. The obvious conclusion is that I am not an average > person. face it, when it comes to any measure of central tendency, . . . when it comes to standard deviation, we ARE the deviants. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From lproven at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 19:32:40 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 01:32:40 +0100 Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: References: <575131af0908011740w1d90338bpc7b9c54796a717a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <575131af0908021732o3154edb2wbc335628d35cd7c4@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/2 Tony Duell : >> >> 2009/8/1 Tony Duell : >> >> > AS ever I don't have a scanner >> >> Do you want one? I think I have a spare SCSI one in the attic. > > Only if > > a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70 > iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics) > > b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it > > c) Spares are available > > It's not that I can't get a scanner, it's rather that I can't get a > scanner and somethign to connect it to that meets my criteria for a > device I will rely on. Touching display of gratitude, there, Tony. Well done. I will try Freecycle and failing that throw it in a skip, then. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Sun Aug 2 20:12:28 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:12:28 -0400 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: <4A7585A0.9020101@dunnington.plus.com> References: <8CBE169D7D71592-19F8-4F27@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> <4A7585A0.9020101@dunnington.plus.com> Message-ID: <4A76397C.8000403@compsys.to> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > >On 02/08/2009 10:22, tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote: > >> One can't really tell much without opening the back panel, >> but I will make a guess based on the photos provided in the auction >> listing, >> and typical system configurations from the period. >> >> It would appear that this is a PDP-11/23+ system. > > You mean a "microPDP-11/23". A PDP-11/23plus would be in a BA11-S > box. Same processor board, though, but very different boot ROMs. I agree. DEC had some confusing (for outsiders) names to specify systems which used the same CPU board. >> This is based on the basic "Micro PDP-11" medallion on the front panel, >> and the 2-port cab-kit, which is standard for the 11/23+ only. > > The badge could be any of the microPDP-11 series, as far as I can see. > But it is a 2-port cab kit -- well spotted (on single-port ones the > baud rate legend and selector are in the middle, with the DB25 at one > end and the LED displays at the other) so unless it's been upgraded > this is a KDF11 system, not a KDJ11. I agree again!! Assuming that this cabinet kit is actually in use (it would probably be 99.9% confidence since the 2 other 4 * DB25 cabinet kits are never (at least in my experience) used for the console port. The 2-port cabinet kit is unique to the M8189 CPU module. Unfortunately, it seems to have been set up sort-of upside down so that the second DB25 connector can't be seen. So as Pete states, the CPU is almost certainly the KDF11 in the M8189 module. Most likely there is an MMU chip, but the FPU chip may not be present. >> I see two 4-port cab-kits on there, which, based on the era >> is most likely a DHV11, but it could be a pair of DZV11's as well. > > Could even be a couple of DLV11-Js, though that's less likely. Actually, I suggest that there is an even chance that there are a couple of DLV11-Js, but there is insufficient detail to see the pins in the cabinet kits. All 3 cabinet kits for the DLV11-J, DZV11 and DHV11 look about the same, but the pins are different. An enlarged view showing which pins are sticking out of each DB25 would be helpful. >> There is a lone connector in one of the "A" slots, >> which could be just about anything. It sort of looks like >> the LPV11 cabinet kit with the 37-pin connector, >> but that is just speculation. > > Could be; I thought about a DLV11-E or a DPV11, but the connector > looks too big for those. Maybe a TQK25 kit, I can't remember what the > connector on those was. I have an extra TQK25 cabinet kit in the extras box which looks as identical as possible to the light blue 50 pin centronics connector shown. While it might be for something else, the TK25 is also appropriate for the M8189 CPU. About 20 years ago, I also used the TK25 as my primary backup, so I still have that hardware around. >> The RX50's tell you that there should be an RQDXn controller >> installed (most likely an RQDX2) which might also indicate >> the presence of an RD52 or RD53 disk drive behind the front bezel. > > If it were an 11/23 variant it would much more likely be an RQDX1, but > that's very similar. Difficult to say which RQDXn is present, but almost certainly one of them since there is an RX50. And which hard drive RD5n is present is also impossible to identify. If anyone actually wants to bid on the system, taking off the front bezel is the easy part. The back plate to the backplane to identify the other boards is also easy, but takes a few minutes longer. Notice that there was no guarantee that the system is still working, just that is was working when it was last powered down. For anyone who wants a first PDP-11 system, this seems not too bad, but the shipping will be very high. The BA23 is heavy enough to cost more for shipping than the system itself. So if local pickup is not possible and the total cost is important, check for all extra costs first. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Aug 2 20:52:35 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MacLynx 2-7-1 sources In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Aug 2, 9 11:14:00 am" Message-ID: <200908030152.n731qZ8X015452@floodgap.com> >>Because I have nothing else to do, and because I actually did use MacLynx on >>my IIsi when all I had was 4MB of RAM and dialup SLIP, I decided to see if I >>could update MacLynx (which is based on the old Lynx 2-7-1) to something in >>the 2.8 range. [...] >>out there still have a copy of this source code rotting somewhere? > >What year is the source from? 1997, I believe. It is not part of the Lynx official sources, before anyone asks (and lynx.isc.org no longer has anything from the 2.7 days anyway). -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Klein bottle for immediate occupancy; inquire within. ---------------------- From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Sun Aug 2 23:30:22 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:30:22 -0700 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... Message-ID: <4A7667DE.2090304@mail.msu.edu> I'm still trying to figure out what's gone wrong with the unibus on my 11/40. To recap -- the machine is responsive if I run it without a terminator at the end of the bus; with a terminator installed the front panel is unresponsive. I've checked the following: - The NPG grants are continuous from the front to the back. - There are grant continuity cards in each empty slot. - I am running with a minimal configuration (only CPU and 64K MOS memory) I made one final discovery about two months ago -- the SPC slot in slot 9 of the main CPU backplane (which I am 100% sure is an SPC slot and not some special-purpose slot) does not work properly. I cannot get the Console SLU/LTC board to function when installed in slot 9 (which is where it's typically installed, or so I hear). It works fine in other unibus slots. I have three questions, any help on these would be, well... helpful. I'm hoping to have some time to play around with it in the coming months. 1) Is the NPG grant on the SPC slot on the processor backplane (slot 9) supposed to be connected to the NPG grants on the Unibus expansion? That is -- right now if I set my DMM to continuity mode and put one probe on CA1 on the first slot of the unibus expansion, and the other on CB1 on the last slot of the unibus expansion, since all NPG grant jumpers are in place, the DMM shows the circuit as closed. This is as I'd expect. However, if I move the probe from CA1 on the first slot of the expansion to CA1 on slot 9 of the processor backplane, the circuit is then open. I'm guessing this is not correct. (There is currently an NPG jumper installed on slot 9.) All other grant lines seem to be continuous. 2) Where is the +15V to the processor backplane supposed to be connected? (I suspect this may be the reason the SLU won't function in slot 9...). Right now it's plugged into pin CV1 on slot 9 (if I'm reading the Unibus pin chart right :)) but the docs I have found say this should be ACLO_L... 3) Does anyone have a wirelist for the 11/40 CPU backplane (or is this in any of the service/reference manuals)? Worst case, I can probe out the wiring and figure out what's missing/incorrect on slot 9. Thanks as always... Josh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Aug 2 23:38:19 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:38:19 -0700 Subject: MacLynx 2-7-1 sources In-Reply-To: <200908030152.n731qZ8X015452@floodgap.com> References: <200908030152.n731qZ8X015452@floodgap.com> Message-ID: At 6:52 PM -0700 8/2/09, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >What year is the source from? > >1997, I believe. It is not part of the Lynx official sources, before anyone >asks (and lynx.isc.org no longer has anything from the 2.7 days anyway). Okay, then I'm afraid it's too new to be in the stuff I have. I have some CD's of that kind of stuff, but they're from the '95 timeframe, and I'm not sure where they are anyway. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tsw-cc at johana.com Sun Aug 2 23:42:11 2009 From: tsw-cc at johana.com (Tom Watson) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch Message-ID: <835584.30723.qm@web112414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I found one on EBAY that looks like it may go for a song. If you get it, I have done an interface for a parallel printer port. It works without kernel software modification (assuming you use plain text) on Linux where I've used it. Ebay info: Facit Paper Tape Punch Model 4070 (290335224061). My interest is not in the punch, but I'm willing to supply the interface (it isn't that big). What I'm after is the plastic chad box as I don't have one, and a plastic baggie is a poor substitute (*SIGH*). From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 11:10:42 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <4A75A3B3.21689.14577DEB@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <379599.35751.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Most probably made in China by some outfit that also turns > out all > manner of unrelated items. it's no secret that many thing (maybe all?) are made in PROC these days. But they can vary widely in quality. My unit was a piece of junk. Same w/their machine tools (I was told 10 years ago by an old machinist the quality be getting better...I'd swear on a bible that if I spoke to the same dude today he'd say exactly the same thing - but you run your chances when you buy one. Sorry, there's just no argument there. Granted a few of the smaller garden variety chinese lathes _can_ sometimes represent a bargain (I hesitate to say *value*). I don't hate them, nor the Chinese people of course, you just have to be real careful. What I do hate though is Chinese human rights violations. And the loss of our manufacturing sector. But I digress. > And if Marley gets his chompers on it, I won't get too > upset. Hopefully Marley won't get lead poisoning... From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 16:49:56 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 14:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Fred Cisin wrote: > Sure helped me a lot. Once I had my 5150, soon thereafter I > started trying > to build XTs by buying Taiwan bare motherboards (mostly > infringinf copies > of IBM's) and soldering Augat sockets to them. Since > that was also to > improve my ability to solder, they did sometimes need > troubleshooting. > By looking at the boot code in the BIOS, I was able to > determine how far > it was getting in the boot process, and therefore some > hints of what to > look at. When P.O.S.T. cards came out, that made that > much easier. I'm beginning to think peeps like you, Chuckster, Allison,..., should have been writing books back then. I happen to like some of Peter Norton's stuff, sure helped me when there was little else that would. You also have to understand that there was also a lot of misinformation. We realize that people like you were pioneers. Most of us just don't have the same talents. I couldn't make heads or tails of assembly language (started poking around when someone gave me MASM for the T2K), and through up my hands. Bought some expensive (for then) books. No go. Found the right text (thank God for good, down to earth authors), and 2 weeks later I could actually write some code. Don't misunderstand me. What you're talking about is very interesting. The average jamoke probably won't have the patience to sort through bios code. Not from the getgo anyway. I myself am fascinated by the notion of code being tuned for specific hardware these days. In an earlier case Andrew Tanenbaum mentions having to account for temperature variations in some chips in his Minix text (not in front of me). I still haven't figured out what hardware he's talking about. The 8088 platform wasn't that unstable, was it??? > BTW, "mobo"??? Actually the "mobo" in the 5150 isn't one at all technically. It's a main logic board. A motherboard is supposed to be synonymous w/a passive backplane. But I'll bet that term likely died by the time the 5150 was released. > BTW, when the 5150 first came out, I started in on twenty > years of > teaching programming at Merritt College. When I finally took assembler as a community college course, I'm sad to say I learned virtually nothing about programming. Despite the fact that the guy worked in industry (he was almost 60 at that point) he didn't know what the Trap flag was for! Maybe he forgot (kind of hard to wouldn't you say?). I kept my mouth shut. There are always tips that can be gleaned from old hands though. Learned a few things, but nothing about writing code specifically. I do suppose that we should be grateful that anyone teaches assembler at all anymore. > > The point is _most_ of us aren't going to plumb > the depths as you or > > someone like Chuck did in the old days. > > . . . when we walked 10 miles through the snow uphill, both > ways, . . . Uh, I actually doubt either of you are old enough to remember all that? > OK > In my day, there weren't any good PC troubleshooting > guides. > The IBM Hardware Reference guide was just a board swapping > text! > In those days, the Tech Ref was the ONLY reference > available. ...and a semester later, it was stated that a variable is basically synonymous w/"memory location", in a manner of speaking. I certainly knew what a variable was, far earlier on hacked into games to bump up my stats so I could really kick some..uh. But if I were asked to explain it quite that way, I think I would have had a hard time. Most people that like this stuff are more doers then talkers (or teachers). I am sometimes surprised at my ability to work through a problem that people sometimes w/far more experience have trouble doing. But explaining it is another matter. Probably why there are so few good books out there.... From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 17:00:30 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <49862.1557.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I do not. But the meter was not to blame. If you're playing around with dangerous voltages, you'd better measure at least twice, and cut once. You'd better know exactly what you're doing before going anywhere near that stuff. I'm afraid to say the fault was his own. There's nothing saying a good meter wouldn't give an errant reading one day. --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Tony Duell wrote: > From: Tony Duell > Subject: Re: Problems with IBM 5150 Power > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 3:45 PM > > > > > > > A freind of mine was nearly killed by a cheap > DMM. > > > > LOL. And I caught wind of the population of a small > midwestern town > > I am glad you find electrocution funny. > > -tony > From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 17:05:56 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <500225.8524.qm@web65506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Tony I won't do a line item response, but the basic idea was to help the individual get the thing running. I won't say 9 out of 10 people won't utilize the bios to troubleshoot a mlb, but 99 out of 100. Sure if you have a logic analyzer, or some means to read off of the address pins, it's not at all a bad idea. But even those w/the basic ability won't go that route. Oi keep it simple. This also assumes the bios is adequately "mapped out" from the getgo. Trying to establish break points in the code would bloody take forever if you were to ask me. It's really not a straitforward way of From rodsmallwood at btconnect.com Mon Aug 3 01:07:54 2009 From: rodsmallwood at btconnect.com (Rod Smallwood) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:07:54 +0100 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: <4A7585A0.9020101@dunnington.plus.com> References: <8CBE169D7D71592-19F8-4F27@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> <4A7585A0.9020101@dunnington.plus.com> Message-ID: <412950917B0D47ADADCE6E6AC1292ABA@EDIConsultingLtd.local> Based on the ten BA23 boxed PDP11 examples in my collection I'd say Pete was spot on Regards Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull Sent: 02 August 2009 13:25 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: I'm sure someone has info on this... On 02/08/2009 10:22, tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote: > > One can't really tell much without opening the back panel, > but I will make a guess based on the photos provided in the auction > listing, > and typical system configurations from the period. > > It would appear that this is a PDP-11/23+ system. You mean a "microPDP-11/23". A PDP-11/23plus would be in a BA11-S box. Same processor board, though, but very different boot ROMs. > This is based on the basic "Micro PDP-11" medallion on the front panel, > and the 2-port cab-kit, which is standard for the 11/23+ only. The badge could be any of the microPDP-11 series, as far as I can see. But it is a 2-port cab kit -- well spotted (on single-port ones the baud rate legend and selector are in the middle, with the DB25 at one end and the LED displays at the other) so unless it's been upgraded this is a KDF11 system, not a KDJ11. > I see two 4-port cab-kits on there, which, based on the era > is most likely a DHV11, but it could be a pair of DZV11's as well. Could even be a couple of DLV11-Js, though that's less likely. > There is a lone connector in one of the "A" slots, > which could be just about anything. It sort of looks like > the LPV11 cabinet kit with the 37-pin connector, > but that is just speculation. Could be; I thought about a DLV11-E or a DPV11, but the connector looks too big for those. Maybe a TQK25 kit, I can't remember what the connector on those was. > The RX50's tell you that there should be an RQDXn controller > installed (most likely an RQDX2) which might also indicate > the presence of an RD52 or RD53 disk drive behind the front bezel. If it were an 11/23 variant it would much more likely be an RQDX1, but that's very similar. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gerhard.kreuzer at liftoff.at Mon Aug 3 03:45:18 2009 From: gerhard.kreuzer at liftoff.at (Gerhard Kreuzer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:45:18 +0200 Subject: PDP-8/11 bus interfacing ICs (Tobias Russell) Message-ID: <196E1FB77814458D95D34DA5C935C927@mars> Hi Toby, please keep me informed, if you find some solution, I am also thinking of some project, but I want to develop an universal spare board, so you can easily replace a DEC board to find problems easier. With best regards Gerhard www.compuseum.at From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 03:52:25 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 01:52:25 -0700 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: <412950917B0D47ADADCE6E6AC1292ABA@EDIConsultingLtd.local> References: <8CBE169D7D71592-19F8-4F27@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> <4A7585A0.9020101@dunnington.plus.com> <412950917B0D47ADADCE6E6AC1292ABA@EDIConsultingLtd.local> Message-ID: Everyone---- Thank you very much for the information. I've asked the seller if they can post some better photos. If they do, I'll let everyone know. I like this machine, but the shipping cost for it ($133) is almost as much as the opening bid ($150). Mark On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > Based on the ten BA23 boxed PDP11 examples in my collection I'd say Pete was > spot on > > > Regards > > Rod Smallwood > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 02 August 2009 13:25 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: I'm sure someone has info on this... > > On 02/08/2009 10:22, tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote: >> >> One can't really tell much without opening the back panel, >> but I will make a guess based on the photos provided in the auction >> listing, >> and typical system configurations from the period. >> >> It would appear that this is a PDP-11/23+ system. > > You mean a "microPDP-11/23". ?A PDP-11/23plus would be in a BA11-S box. > ?Same processor board, though, but very different boot ROMs. > >> This is based on the basic "Micro PDP-11" medallion on the front panel, >> and the 2-port cab-kit, which is standard for the 11/23+ only. > > The badge could be any of the microPDP-11 series, as far as I can see. > But it is a 2-port cab kit -- well spotted (on single-port ones the baud > rate legend and selector are in the middle, with the DB25 at one end and > the LED displays at the other) so unless it's been upgraded this is a > KDF11 system, not a KDJ11. > >> I see two 4-port cab-kits on there, which, based on the era >> is most likely a DHV11, but it could be a pair of DZV11's ?as well. > > Could even be a couple of DLV11-Js, though that's less likely. > >> There is a lone connector in one of the "A" slots, >> which could be just about anything. ? It sort of looks like >> the LPV11 cabinet kit with the 37-pin connector, >> but that is just speculation. > > Could be; I thought about a DLV11-E or a DPV11, but the connector looks > too big for those. ?Maybe a TQK25 kit, I can't remember what the > connector on those was. > >> The RX50's tell you that there should be an RQDXn controller >> installed (most likely an RQDX2) which might also indicate >> the presence of an RD52 or RD53 disk drive behind the front bezel. > > If it were an 11/23 variant it would much more likely be an RQDX1, but > that's very similar. > > -- > Pete ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Peter Turnbull > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Network Manager > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?University of York > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Aug 3 04:25:55 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:25:55 -0400 Subject: Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch In-Reply-To: <835584.30723.qm@web112414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <835584.30723.qm@web112414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <833AA95D-7881-4A11-9424-9015454CA8BA@neurotica.com> On Aug 3, 2009, at 12:42 AM, Tom Watson wrote: > I found one on EBAY that looks like it may go for a song. If you > get it, I have done an interface for a parallel printer port. It > works without kernel software modification (assuming you use plain > text) on Linux where I've used it. > > Ebay info: Facit Paper Tape Punch Model 4070 (290335224061). > > My interest is not in the punch, but I'm willing to supply the > interface (it isn't that big). > > What I'm after is the plastic chad box as I don't have one, and a > plastic baggie is a poor substitute (*SIGH*). I'm hoping it goes for a song, as I'm the only bidder. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Mon Aug 3 06:25:23 2009 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch In-Reply-To: <833AA95D-7881-4A11-9424-9015454CA8BA@neurotica.com> References: <835584.30723.qm@web112414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <833AA95D-7881-4A11-9424-9015454CA8BA@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote: >> Ebay info: Facit Paper Tape Punch Model 4070 (290335224061). > > I'm hoping it goes for a song, as I'm the only bidder. :) > > -Dave Aw nuts, I was going to snipe it... :-) Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 3 09:58:48 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:58:48 -0700 Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net>, <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A76FB28.26498.199537CA@cclist.sydex.com> On 2 Aug 2009 at 14:49, Chris M wrote: > I'm beginning to think peeps like you, Chuckster, Allison,..., should > have been writing books back then. I edited a number for Osborne McGraw-Hill, but never wanted to write one--too much work compared with other ways of making money. Simply spending a bit of time after supper every day with a manuscript and a pencil was worth a couple of thousand every month. Besides, some of us wrote software--so much more fun than a book. The ironic thing was that many "authors" simply spent their time picking other people's knowledge--they didn't know all that much about the subject themselves. Some truly gargantuan egos involved, too. And those books with a Major Personality on the cover were often not even proofed by the Major Personality, and scarcely anything more than a foreword penned by them. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:05:01 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:05:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <379599.35751.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> from "Chris M" at Aug 2, 9 09:10:42 am Message-ID: > > Most probably made in China by some outfit that also turns > > out all > > manner of unrelated items. > > it's no secret that many thing (maybe all?) are made in PROC these > days. But they can vary widely in quality. My unit was a piece of junk. > Same w/their machine tools (I was told 10 years ago by an old machinist >From articles in the UK Model Engineering magazines, it appears that the Chinese lathes are OK _if you buy them as a starting point_. In other words when you get one, you need to strip it down, check alignment, possibly ture up some parts and reassemble it (correctly). At least one importer of such machines in the UK offers them at 2 prices -- as they come from China or (for more money, of course) after they've done some work on them > the quality be getting better...I'd swear on a bible that if I spoke to > the same dude today he'd say exactly the same thing - but you run your > chances when you buy one. Sorry, there's just no argument there. Granted > a few of the smaller garden variety chinese lathes _can_ sometimes But is it any suprise I didn't buy such a machine tool :-) > represent a bargain (I hesitate to say *value*). I don't hate them, nor > the Chinese people of course, you just have to be real careful. What I > do hate though is Chinese human rights violations. And the loss of our > manufacturing sector. But I digress. Agreed. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:07:35 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:07:35 +0100 (BST) Subject: Slightly-OT: Philips SAA5240 User's Manual In-Reply-To: <20090802131329.E81520@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Aug 2, 9 01:20:59 pm Message-ID: [Scanner] > > Only if > > > > a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70 > > iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics) > > > > b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it > > > > c) Spares are available > > We'll leave a) up to you. We are confident that you could design and > build an interface. RS232 style of serial, "Centronics" style of > parallel, or [ALMOST] standard SCSI Oh, I could build the interface, no problem. But Iam not a programmer, and writing the drivers (and the higher-level software) is not something I'd want to do. > > As for c), some are so common that we could ship you enough "spares" to > use as bricks to build a shed. Each set of spare parts is connected I don't class that as 'spares availability' :-) > b) is the stumbling block. Way too much of the USA (and other) industry > considers proper service manuals to be a matter of "trade secret"s! Exactly. And while reverse-engineering things is not genrally beyond me, I suspect most scanners (including the Nikon one I've been inside) are stuffed with custom silicon and not much else so working out how it all works is a 'challenege'. And I've got more interesting things to work on. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:20:31 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:20:31 +0100 (BST) Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: from "Mark Davidson" at Aug 3, 9 01:52:25 am Message-ID: > > Everyone---- > > Thank you very much for the information. I've asked the seller if > they can post some better photos. If they do, I'll let everyone know. > I like this machine, but the shipping cost for it ($133) is almost as > much as the opening bid ($150). That is not necessarily a reason for not buying it. Many times I've bought something on E-bay where the shipping charage is several times the winning bid (or B-I-N). I just think that if the total cost (my high bid + shipping) is less that I think the machine is worth, then I'll buy it and not worry how much is 'machine' and how much is 'shipping'. Wheterh this machine is worth around $300 to you is something I can't say. -tony From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:31:24 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:31:24 -0700 Subject: I'm sure someone has info on this... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> Everyone---- >> >> Thank you very much for the information. ?I've asked the seller if >> they can post some better photos. ?If they do, I'll let everyone know. >> ?I like this machine, but the shipping cost for it ($133) is almost as >> much as the opening bid ($150). > > That is not necessarily a reason for not buying it. Many times I've > bought something on E-bay where the shipping charage is several times the > winning bid (or B-I-N). I just think that if the total cost (my high bid > + shipping) is less that I think the machine is worth, then I'll buy it > and not worry how much is 'machine' and how much is 'shipping'. > > Wheterh this machine is worth around $300 to you is something I can't say. I realize now that what I said came out completely wrong. :) I've done the same thing... I've bought machines where the shipping/transport costs were far larger than the price of the machine. It's just that right now the money is tight because of some unexpected bills and I was being overly tight in my assessment. :) Mark From rescue at hawkmountain.net Mon Aug 3 23:14:32 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:14:32 -0400 Subject: SunBlade 2000 vs SunBlade 2500 vs Ultra 45 Message-ID: <4A77B5A8.8030104@hawkmountain.net> Might be pushing 'classic' a bit.... as the 'oldest' of these three is only 7 years old.... so... if these aren't 'classic' enough yet... please forgive me :-) So.... which one is best in your opinion ? The 2000 takes UltraSparc III, 8MB cache (at 200mhz bus), the 2500 and U45 use UltraSparc IIIi, 1MB cache on chip (but how are the cycles to it ?) Beyond that, memory tech differs... 2000 takes ?, the 2500 takes ECC DDR266, and the U45 ECC DDR333. The 2000 and 2500 do SCSI, while the U45 does SAS/SATA. But beyond that, how is reliability, how is USIII vs USIIIi performance ? The 2000 will do vertical UPA, right ? (I have some C3D cards from U60) The 2500 looks like fastest slot is 64 bit 66mhz 3.3V PCI (so what Sun GFX cards go in there?). And the U45 has PCI-X and PCIe x16. (I assume graphics there is usually via the PCIe x16, right ? Looking for 'best' desktop Sparc.... assume it would be one of these three, no ? Thanks, -- Curt From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 4 00:01:43 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:01:43 -0700 Subject: SunBlade 2000 vs SunBlade 2500 vs Ultra 45 In-Reply-To: <4A77B5A8.8030104@hawkmountain.net> References: <4A77B5A8.8030104@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: At 12:14 AM -0400 8/4/09, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: >Looking for 'best' desktop Sparc.... assume it would be one of these >three, no ? Take a look at the heat output. My current desktop Sparc is a SunBlade 1000, one slight problem it puts out so much heat I can only use it in the Winter. I don't have that problem with the Ultra 60/2450. At the same time I'm having a hard time justifying a Sparc anymore. What's the point, as much as I love Solaris, now that Oracle owns Sun I really have to question how long Solaris will be around. Just get a Nehalem based PC or Mac, personally I'm trying to figure out how to afford a Nehalem based Mac Pro. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ken at seefried.com Mon Aug 3 23:45:39 2009 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MCA i860 Message-ID: <20090804044539.051643800072B@portal.seefried.com> This looks like an interesting MCA i860 card. http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-i860-or-A80860XR-40-Super-CPU-Board-with-Mem_W0QQitemZ140337562794QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20acc544aa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 KJ From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Aug 4 00:20:55 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:20:55 -0400 Subject: MCA i860 References: <20090804044539.051643800072B@portal.seefried.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Seefried" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:45 AM Subject: MCA i860 > This looks like an interesting MCA i860 card. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-i860-or-A80860XR-40-Super-CPU-Board-with-Mem_W0QQitemZ140337562794QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20acc544aa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 > > KJ $250 is a bit pricey for a bare card don't you think? From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Tue Aug 4 02:32:43 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:32:43 +0200 Subject: MCA i860 Message-ID: <200908040732.n747WUNw033541@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> -----Original Message----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: 08/04/2009 7:20 Subject: Re: MCA i860 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Seefried" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:45 AM Subject: MCA i860 > This looks like an interesting MCA i860 card. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-i860-or-A80860XR-40-Super-CPU-Board-with-Mem_W0QQitemZ140337562794QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20acc544aa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 > > KJ >$250 is a bit pricey for a bare card don't >you think? It's all about perspective , isn't it ? Pricey for you cheap for him. If you want something bad enough you pay every price. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 06:56:59 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 06:56:59 -0500 Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <4A76FB28.26498.199537CA@cclist.sydex.com> References: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net> <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4A76FB28.26498.199537CA@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090804065552.03e51b60@mail.threedee.com> At 09:58 AM 8/3/2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Some truly gargantuan egos involved, >too. And those books with a Major Personality on the cover were >often not even proofed by the Major Personality, and scarcely >anything more than a foreword penned by them. Oh, Dvorak you mean. - John From bqt at softjar.se Mon Aug 3 04:39:28 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:39:28 +0200 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> Hi. Josh Dersch wrote: > I'm still trying to figure out what's gone wrong with the unibus on my > 11/40. To recap -- the machine is responsive if I run it without a > terminator at the end of the bus; with a terminator installed the front > panel is unresponsive. I've checked the following: > > - The NPG grants are continuous from the front to the back. > - There are grant continuity cards in each empty slot. > - I am running with a minimal configuration (only CPU and 64K MOS memory) > > I made one final discovery about two months ago -- the SPC slot in slot > 9 of the main CPU backplane (which I am 100% sure is an SPC slot and not > some special-purpose slot) does not work properly. I cannot get the > Console SLU/LTC board to function when installed in slot 9 (which is > where it's typically installed, or so I hear). It works fine in other > unibus slots. That is not a good sign. > I have three questions, any help on these would be, well... helpful. > I'm hoping to have some time to play around with it in the coming months. > > 1) Is the NPG grant on the SPC slot on the processor backplane (slot 9) > supposed to be connected to the NPG grants on the Unibus expansion? > That is -- right now if I set my DMM to continuity mode and put one > probe on CA1 on the first slot of the unibus expansion, and the other on > CB1 on the last slot of the unibus expansion, since all NPG grant > jumpers are in place, the DMM shows the circuit as closed. This is as > I'd expect. However, if I move the probe from CA1 on the first slot of > the expansion to CA1 on slot 9 of the processor backplane, the circuit > is then open. I'm guessing this is not correct. (There is currently an > NPG jumper installed on slot 9.) All other grant lines seem to be > continuous. That sounds really bad. NPG should originate from the CPU (unless my memory fails me), and pass through each SPC slot. If it don't even make it to the first slot (slot 09 of the CPU box) then you'll never get a working system. But how can you have a connection from CB1 out from the CPU slot 9, but not a connection from CA1 out, when you do have a jumper between CA1 and CB1 (of slot 9)? That sounds like a broken jumper to me. > 2) Where is the +15V to the processor backplane supposed to be > connected? (I suspect this may be the reason the SLU won't function in > slot 9...). Right now it's plugged into pin CV1 on slot 9 (if I'm > reading the Unibus pin chart right :)) but the docs I have found say > this should be ACLO_L... Have you measured? Is it +15V, or +5V? ACLO_L is active low, and if you have a good AC in, then I would expect that pin to be +5V in that case. Afraid I can't help more right now. Any description of an SPC slot should tell you, but I'm not sitting next to any manuals right now. > 3) Does anyone have a wirelist for the 11/40 CPU backplane (or is this > in any of the service/reference manuals)? Worst case, I can probe out > the wiring and figure out what's missing/incorrect on slot 9. Sorry that I can't help more on this one. Didn't see any on bitsavers. Maybe someone else have them? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From jrkeys at jrkeys.cnc.net Mon Aug 3 10:27:47 2009 From: jrkeys at jrkeys.cnc.net (Keys) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:27:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch In-Reply-To: <835584.30723.qm@web112414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090803152748.120231C31@bellona.cnc.net> ---- General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 12:42 AM, Tom Watson wrote: > > I found one on EBAY that looks like it may go for a song. If you > > get it, I have done an interface for a parallel printer port. It > > works without kernel software modification (assuming you use plain > > text) on Linux where I've used it. > > > > Ebay info: Facit Paper Tape Punch Model 4070 (290335224061). > > > > My interest is not in the punch, but I'm willing to supply the > > interface (it isn't that big). > > > > What I'm after is the plastic chad box as I don't have one, and a > > plastic baggie is a poor substitute (*SIGH*). > > I'm hoping it goes for a song, as I'm the only bidder. :) > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > Port Charlotte, FL > > I got one off eBay awhile back with the chad box and manual but have yet to hook it up. JK From BIDDR7 at aol.com Tue Aug 4 01:10:07 2009 From: BIDDR7 at aol.com (BIDDR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 02:10:07 EDT Subject: TEK 4107A and TEK 4209 color raster graphic terminals free for pickup in Seattl Message-ID: STILL GOT THESE? IM INTERESTED THANKS MJ From jws at jwsss.com Tue Aug 4 01:54:46 2009 From: jws at jwsss.com (jim s) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:54:46 -0700 Subject: SunBlade 2000 vs SunBlade 2500 vs Ultra 45 In-Reply-To: References: <4A77B5A8.8030104@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <4A77DB36.5020706@jwsss.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > At 12:14 AM -0400 8/4/09, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: >> Looking for 'best' desktop Sparc.... assume it would be one of these >> three, no ? > > Take a look at the heat output. My current desktop Sparc is a > SunBlade 1000, one slight problem it puts out so much heat I can only > use it in the Winter. I don't have that problem with the Ultra 60/2450. > > At the same time I'm having a hard time justifying a Sparc anymore. > What's the point, as much as I love Solaris, now that Oracle owns Sun > I really have to question how long Solaris will be around. Just get a > Nehalem based PC or Mac, personally I'm trying to figure out how to > afford a Nehalem based Mac Pro. > > Zane Zane, Curtis, Since I have several of the video and keyboard converters, I swear by the Ultra 5's and 10's I had one of the Blade 100's but can't see that they are that much better than the 5's. I suppose that if Sun has knocked them out of the Solaris support roadmap, I'll be criticized for this posting, but the 2.9 I have works fine for these machines. And they are dirt cheap. With 2.9 (and sort of with 2.8) you can put as large a disk as you like, and except for using the sun keyboard connection and mouse they are just fine. As I said, I ended up with a deal on converters, so I can kvm one w/o any problem. I have 4 or 5 of the 5's and their size and power consumption is just fine. I agree that the macos may be where I go with Zane though, but am waiting to see where the next spin of macos goes (sorry for the current discussion). Jim From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Aug 4 07:43:53 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:43:53 -0400 Subject: MCA i860 In-Reply-To: <20090804044539.051643800072B@portal.seefried.com> References: <20090804044539.051643800072B@portal.seefried.com> Message-ID: <200908040843.53808.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Ken Seefried wrote: > This looks like an interesting MCA i860 card. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-i860-or-A80860XR-40-Super-CPU-Board-with-Mem >_W0QQitemZ140337562794QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2 >0acc544aa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 That's an IBM RS/6000 SP switch card. If I haven't pitched them yet, I've got a dozen of them sitting in my warehouse, that I'd be willing to sell to anyone on this list for only $100 each. ;) Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 4 09:58:12 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 07:58:12 -0700 Subject: SunBlade 2000 vs SunBlade 2500 vs Ultra 45 In-Reply-To: <4A77DB36.5020706@jwsss.com> References: <4A77B5A8.8030104@hawkmountain.net> <4A77DB36.5020706@jwsss.com> Message-ID: At 11:54 PM -0700 8/3/09, jim s wrote: >Zane H. Healy wrote: >>At 12:14 AM -0400 8/4/09, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: >>>Looking for 'best' desktop Sparc.... assume it would be one of these >>>three, no ? >> >>Take a look at the heat output. My current desktop Sparc is a >>SunBlade 1000, one slight problem it puts out so much heat I can >>only use it in the Winter. I don't have that problem with the >>Ultra 60/2450. >> >>At the same time I'm having a hard time justifying a Sparc anymore. >>What's the point, as much as I love Solaris, now that Oracle owns >>Sun I really have to question how long Solaris will be around. >>Just get a Nehalem based PC or Mac, personally I'm trying to figure >>out how to afford a Nehalem based Mac Pro. >> >>Zane > >Zane, Curtis, >Since I have several of the video and keyboard converters, I swear >by the Ultra 5's and 10's I had one of the Blade 100's but can't >see that they are that much better than the 5's. I suppose that if >Sun has knocked them out of the Solaris support roadmap, I'll be >criticized for this posting, but the 2.9 I have works fine for these >machines. And they are dirt cheap. With 2.9 (and sort of with 2.8) >you can put as large a disk as you like, and except for using the >sun keyboard connection and mouse they are just fine. As I said, I >ended up with a deal on converters, so I can kvm one w/o any >problem. I have 4 or 5 of the 5's and their size and power >consumption is just fine. > >I agree that the macos may be where I go with Zane though, but am >waiting to see where the next spin of macos goes (sorry for the >current discussion). >Jim Jim, I actually think you have the right idea here. I'm not sure the current status of the "10 year" rule, and personally I view any desktop Sparc system as a "Classic", but realistically the older machines have some real benefit here. I personally dislike the Ultra 5's and 10's, as well as the SunBlade 100's and 150's, though I'd love to get OpenBSD running on an Ultra 5 or SunBlade 100/150. In my opinion one of the best Sparc desktops is the Ultra 60, but I say that without having used a SB 2000, 2500, or Ultra 45. The SB1000's are quite simply to *HOT*. For size and power consumption the U5/U10/SB100/SB150 win hands down. I'm also extremely fond of the Sparc 5, Sparc 20, Ultra 1E, and Ultra 2. For the past several years I've found that Mac OS X meets most of my needs for UNIX at home. As a result my Linux, IRIX, and Solaris systems typically sit idle. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From IanK at vulcan.com Tue Aug 4 11:05:42 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:05:42 -0700 Subject: TEK 4107A and TEK 4209 color raster graphic terminals free for pickup in Seattl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those found a home with me back in February - thanks, Glen! -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of BIDDR7 at aol.com [BIDDR7 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: TEK 4107A and TEK 4209 color raster graphic terminals free for pickup in Seattl STILL GOT THESE? IM INTERESTED THANKS MJ From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Tue Aug 4 13:40:33 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:40:33 +0200 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:39:28 +0200 > From: bqt at softjar.se > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... > > Hi. > > Josh Dersch wrote: [...snip...] >> 3) Does anyone have a wirelist for the 11/40 CPU backplane >> (or is this in any of the service/reference manuals)? >> Worst case, I can probe out the wiring and figure out >> what's missing/incorrect on slot 9. I had a look at bitsavers and was a bit surprised to see that none of the 11/40 (11/35) engineering drawings or field maintenance print sets are available there! I needed some time to localize my 11/40 documentation ... I have two sets of the engineering drawings of the 11/40, one contains the KD11-A backplane wire list rev. C, the other has rev. F. The set of course has the 11/40 CPU boards, and also stack limit, line time clock, power harness, the workz. The wire list is 17 pages (33 sides), Ledger format. I could scan them given a few days (tomorrow I have a day off). Can you look at the label / sticker on the side of the 11/40 backplane? Maybe it says which Rev it is. I don't know the differences between rev. C and rev F. - Henk www.pdp-11.nl From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Aug 4 15:48:20 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:48:20 -0700 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> Message-ID: <4A789E94.1020202@bitsavers.org> Henk Gooijen wrote: > I had a look at bitsavers and was a bit surprised to see > that none of the 11/40 (11/35) engineering drawings or > field maintenance print sets are available there! > They are scanned, just not on line. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 4 16:19:38 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20090804065552.03e51b60@mail.threedee.com> References: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net> <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4A76FB28.26498.199537CA@cclist.sydex.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20090804065552.03e51b60@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: <20090804141838.T7277@shell.lmi.net> > At 09:58 AM 8/3/2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > Some truly gargantuan egos involved, > >too. And those books with a Major Personality on the cover were > >often not even proofed by the Major Personality, and scarcely > >anything more than a foreword penned by them. On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, John Foust wrote: > Oh, Dvorak you mean. Does he have his shirtsleeves rolled up on the cover? Did he do a Whisky ad? From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Aug 4 17:35:46 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:35:46 -0700 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: <4A789E94.1020202@bitsavers.org> References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> <4A789E94.1020202@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A78B7C2.3010002@bitsavers.org> Al Kossow wrote: > Henk Gooijen wrote: > >> I had a look at bitsavers and was a bit surprised to see >> that none of the 11/40 (11/35) engineering drawings or >> field maintenance print sets are available there! >> > > They are scanned, just not on line. one set from 6/74 is now on bitsavers From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Aug 4 17:43:01 2009 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H Dickman) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:43:01 -0400 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> Message-ID: <4A78B975.2000608@nktelco.net> Henk Gooijen wrote: > I had a look at bitsavers and was a bit surprised to see > that none of the 11/40 (11/35) engineering drawings or > field maintenance print sets are available there! > > I know there is a version of the printset online because I found it. I think I have the link at work. The link was www.classicon.org or something close to that. -chuck From doug at stillhq.com Tue Aug 4 18:31:39 2009 From: doug at stillhq.com (Doug Jackson) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:31:39 +1000 Subject: SunBlade 2000 vs SunBlade 2500 vs Ultra 45 In-Reply-To: References: <4A77B5A8.8030104@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <4A78C4DB.2000807@stillhq.com> Zane said: > "At the same time I'm having a hard time justifying a Sparc anymore." This reminds me of a sad but true story - When I was a lad (198? or so), I was working for a small scale PC company here in Australia. I was close friends with people who worked at the local university. In this day, the 386 was brand new, and that's what we were flogging. My friends at the uni had a problem... A hidden line removal in some of their Autocad drawings was taking days to complete, and they asked a simple question "Doug, should we get one of those 386 machines, or should we get a Sun workstation?" Given that the delays were in the order of days, I recommended that they go for the fastest Sun machine they could get, knowing that there was a version of Autocad available for that platform........ A few months later, they were very happy with their decision. So happy in fact that when the sales rep from our company was visiting them, they mentioned how happy they were with my advice. The rep came back to the shop at the speed of light, and almost got me sacked. The simple message from my employer was that the ONLY product that I would recommend was one that they sold..... Even on my own time..... I didn't stay there for much longer after that. Yep - there once was a time when there was a massive difference between platforms. Much of that has probably gone now. From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Tue Aug 4 19:04:13 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:04:13 -0400 Subject: Paging Jay West Message-ID: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to> I have sent a number of e-mails to Jay without a response. Has anyone been in touch with Jay as recently as the last week or two? Jerome Fine From trixter at oldskool.org Tue Aug 4 16:40:43 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:40:43 -0500 Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20090804065552.03e51b60@mail.threedee.com> References: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net> <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4A76FB28.26498.199537CA@cclist.sydex.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20090804065552.03e51b60@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: <4A78AADB.3010505@oldskool.org> John Foust wrote: > At 09:58 AM 8/3/2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Some truly gargantuan egos involved, >> too. And those books with a Major Personality on the cover were >> often not even proofed by the Major Personality, and scarcely >> anything more than a foreword penned by them. > > Oh, Dvorak you mean. Or Peter Norton? -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 23:01:00 2009 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven stengel) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Available: Commodore SX64's - Tampa FL. Message-ID: <902523.61663.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Contact Jerry if interested:: --------------------------- > I have 2 Commodore SX64's that are not working. > I used to be heavily into commodore back in the day. > I ran "The Ravens Nest" BBS > ? > My contact info is > > jdraven at verizon.net ? > Jerry Werner > Tampa, Florida > --------------------------- Contact Jerry if interested^^^ From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Tue Aug 4 23:53:03 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:53:03 -0700 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> Message-ID: <4A79102F.8030406@mail.msu.edu> Henk Gooijen wrote: > > I had a look at bitsavers and was a bit surprised to see > that none of the 11/40 (11/35) engineering drawings or > field maintenance print sets are available there! > > I needed some time to localize my 11/40 documentation ... > > I have two sets of the engineering drawings of the 11/40, > one contains the KD11-A backplane wire list rev. C, the other > has rev. F. The set of course has the 11/40 CPU boards, and > also stack limit, line time clock, power harness, the workz. > > The wire list is 17 pages (33 sides), Ledger format. I could > scan them given a few days (tomorrow I have a day off). > Can you look at the label / sticker on the side of the 11/40 > backplane? Maybe it says which Rev it is. I don't know the > differences between rev. C and rev F. > Thanks! (And thanks also to Al for putting up a set on Bitsavers -- downloading now.) Looks like I have wire wrap Rev D on my backplane. Looks like the Bitsavers copy is Rev F. I suppose the odds of anyone knowing what the changes were between D and F are going to be pretty low :). > > - Henk > www.pdp-11.nl > > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Aug 5 00:20:23 2009 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:20:23 -0400 Subject: Paging Jay West In-Reply-To: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to> References: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > I have sent a number of e-mails to Jay without a response. > > Has anyone been in touch with Jay as recently as the last > week or two? Yes, he's still around, and aware that people have been trying to contact him. He's just been swamped with work related stuff (as usual). Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From lee_courtney at acm.org Tue Aug 4 16:39:50 2009 From: lee_courtney at acm.org (Lee Courtney (ACM)) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fw: HP 7880 Reel to Reel Tape Drive Message-ID: <582097.24318.qm@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Passing along the offer of a free HP 7880 tape drive. Contact the person below, not me. Lee C. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Debby Flynn wrote: > > My firm has a very old HP7880 Reel to > Reel Tape Drive that > we were going to turn over to a metal recycling > center.? A person I know said > that it may be of interest to a collector. > > Please let me know if you are > interested and if not, I will > just have it recycled. > > Thank you, > > Debby Flynn > > Director, Client Services > ProLogic Redemption Solutions > > 100 S. Alto Mesa > > El Paso, TX? 79912 > > P (915)581-6237 ext 121 > > F (915)584-7968 > > dflynn at prologicredemption.com From holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de Wed Aug 5 02:45:13 2009 From: holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de (Holger Veit) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:45:13 +0200 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing Message-ID: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> Hi, maybe some Europeans may still remember the SC/MP project in Elektor/Elektuur around 1978. The hex monitor program "elbug" was published as a hex dump in issue Jan 1978 (German, maybe with a delta in other countries). This code did not yet appear in Internet; it is of historical interest, IMHO, though. You can find a commented listing at the following link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/18114130/ELBUG-monitor-listing (no, I won't accept any discussion about "better uploading to bitsavers" any more, Al may have a reason to ignore/neglect/reject my submissions). Regards Holger From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 06:17:46 2009 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:17:46 +0200 Subject: Important DEC auction on ebay (USA) Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370400397 A quite impressive DEC bits lot, including some PDP's and VAXEN (including a VAX750), RA disks etc. Local pick up only, Plainfield, NH, United States... -- Stephane http://3w.posterous.com From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 5 09:36:56 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:36:56 -0700 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing In-Reply-To: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> References: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <4A799908.7060706@bitsavers.org> Holger Veit wrote: > http://www.scribd.com/doc/18114130/ELBUG-monitor-listing > (no, I won't accept any discussion about "better uploading to bitsavers" > any more, Al may have a reason to ignore/neglect/reject my submissions). > Backlog of other projects. I did just finish reading the Smalltalk tapes that you sent, though, since one of the big projects requires a lot of time recovering magtapes. From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:53:10 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:53:10 -0700 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing In-Reply-To: <4A799908.7060706@bitsavers.org> References: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> <4A799908.7060706@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: Hi Al has a lot of things on his list to do. He really need a secretary to keep his to do list in order. There are several small manuals, for the Canon Cat, that I'd like to see scanned. He does a lot of stuff and prioritizing is part of it. Knowing that, being patient, with the occational reminder is the way to go. Dwight ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:36:56 -0700 > From: aek at bitsavers.org > To: > Subject: Re: ELBUG monitor listing > > Holger Veit wrote: > >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18114130/ELBUG-monitor-listing >> (no, I won't accept any discussion about "better uploading to bitsavers" >> any more, Al may have a reason to ignore/neglect/reject my submissions). >> > > Backlog of other projects. > I did just finish reading the Smalltalk tapes that you sent, though, since > one of the big projects requires a lot of time recovering magtapes. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 5 11:17:30 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:17:30 -0700 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing In-Reply-To: References: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> <4A799908.7060706@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A79B09A.3080703@bitsavers.org> dwight elvey wrote: > Hi > Al has a lot of things on his list to do. He > really need a secretary to keep his to do list in order. > There are several small manuals, for the Canon Cat, that > I'd like to see scanned. A color version of the owners manual is up now. From slawmaster at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:41:17 2009 From: slawmaster at gmail.com (John Floren) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:41:17 -0700 Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? Message-ID: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> Can anyone suggest a decent netbook for use with Linux? I'm looking for something reasonably priced, with compatible wireless, and preferably containing a hard drive rather than SSD. It would be nice to get a "real" resolution instead of 1024x600, but I don't expect that in a netbook. Replies can be off-list or on, depending on how interesting you think this topic might be to other members. Thanks John -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 5 12:04:03 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, John Floren wrote: > Can anyone suggest a decent netbook for use with Linux? I'm looking > for something reasonably priced, with compatible wireless, and > preferably containing a hard drive rather than SSD. It would be nice > to get a "real" resolution instead of 1024x600, but I don't expect > that in a netbook. > > Replies can be off-list or on, depending on how interesting you think > this topic might be to other members. While technically off-topic, I'd be interested in seeing what people have to say. I assume you want at least the primary keys to be full size? I know the problem with my Asus eee PC is that the keys are so small. Zane From slawmaster at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:09:40 2009 From: slawmaster at gmail.com (John Floren) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:09:40 -0700 Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: References: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7d3530220908051009n2593942bh94e2fb1724f9ef80@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, John Floren wrote: > >> Can anyone suggest a decent netbook for use with Linux? I'm looking >> for something reasonably priced, with compatible wireless, and >> preferably containing a hard drive rather than SSD. It would be nice >> to get a "real" resolution instead of 1024x600, but I don't expect >> that in a netbook. >> >> Replies can be off-list or on, depending on how interesting you think >> this topic might be to other members. > > While technically off-topic, I'd be interested in seeing what people have to > say. ?I assume you want at least the primary keys to be full size? ?I know > the problem with my Asus eee PC is that the keys are so small. > > Zane > > Well, the bigger the keys, the better, but my roommate just bought an eee PC and the keyboard doesn't seem too bad... however the wireless is not very compatible, nor is the wired network. John -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 5 12:14:00 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: <7d3530220908051009n2593942bh94e2fb1724f9ef80@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> <7d3530220908051009n2593942bh94e2fb1724f9ef80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, John Floren wrote: > Well, the bigger the keys, the better, but my roommate just bought an > eee PC and the keyboard doesn't seem too bad... however the wireless > is not very compatible, nor is the wired network. I believe the newer ones have larger keyboards than the original ones had. IIRC, the keys on mine are about 70% of standard size. It is a challenge to type on. The wireless can definitely be a pain. I haven't had any problem with the wired ethernet. Zane From lproven at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:41:09 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:41:09 +0100 Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <575131af0908051041t518e37b9h9e8c4c400ae24d7d@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/5 John Floren : > Can anyone suggest a decent netbook for use with Linux? I'm looking > for something reasonably priced, with compatible wireless, and > preferably containing a hard drive rather than SSD. It would be nice > to get a "real" resolution instead of 1024x600, but I don't expect > that in a netbook. > > Replies can be off-list or on, depending on how interesting you think > this topic might be to other members. I use a Thinkpad X31. It was just ?200 (plus ?30 for an Ultrabay docking station), one year ago, from here: http://sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/ibmtoshibalaptops.html It's a 3-4y old refurbished machine, but was in excellent condition. It's small and slim, but faster than any Intel Atom or VIA-powered machine, has a full VGA screen, an excellent full-sized keyboard, takes standard 2.5" EIDE disks - I put a 160GB drive in mine for ?55 - and sports CF and Cardbus slots, plus Firewire. In the docking station I have a DVD, decent stereo speakers and can fit an extra battery for twice the life. All this but cheaper than a netbook. The X41 is even thinner but I believe it can't take 2.5" HDs - I think it needs 1.8" iPod-style drives, which are dearer and slower and have a much shorter lifespan.. The X31 runs Linux very nicely. Graphics work, including OpenGL etc. - slowly. The Ethernet, sound, wireless and Bluetooth all work with Ubuntu with no extra configuration needed. Mine also runs Debian, which needed me to load firmware for the WLAN but was otherwise fairly trouble-free. My general recommendation is to look for a good price on a 2 or 3 year old high-spec ultralight laptop, not a netbook, and then max out its RAM and storage. This will get you a much more capable machine. Otherwise, well, the new breed of 11" widescreen netbooks look good to me. Decent screen resolution, full-size or very nearly keyboard, and slightly faster processors. E.g. http://techreport.com/articles.x/17249 Of these 2, I'd go for the Gateway. Less battery life but more CPU power. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From jim at photojim.ca Wed Aug 5 12:59:08 2009 From: jim at photojim.ca (Jim MacKenzie) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:59:08 -0600 Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? References: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> <575131af0908051041t518e37b9h9e8c4c400ae24d7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FF39BF89A10482198290E9B8307B55F@JIMM> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liam Proven" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:41 AM Subject: Re: OT: Linux netbooks? [The ThinkPad X31 is] a 3-4y old refurbished machine, but was in excellent condition. It's small and slim, but faster than any Intel Atom or VIA-powered machine... === Faster? I've never used an X31, but I have an Acer notebook with a 1.7 GHz Pentium M (faster than the 1.3 GHz M that the X31 has) and the Atom N270 at 1.6 GHz that I have in my Acer Aspire One outperforms it. The Atom is a nice little CPU. Perhaps there are other reasons for apparent better performance on the X31, but the CPU isn't the reason. Jim From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 13:12:44 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:12:44 +0200 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: <4A79102F.8030406@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> <4A79102F.8030406@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:53:03 -0700 > From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu > To: > Subject: Re: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... > > > > Henk Gooijen wrote: >> >> [...snip...] >> >> The wire list is 17 pages (33 sides), Ledger format. I could >> scan them given a few days (tomorrow I have a day off). >> Can you look at the label / sticker on the side of the 11/40 >> backplane? Maybe it says which Rev it is. I don't know the >> differences between rev. C and rev F. > > Thanks! (And thanks also to Al for putting up a set on Bitsavers -- > downloading now.) > > Looks like I have wire wrap Rev D on my backplane. Looks like the > Bitsavers copy is Rev F. I suppose the odds of anyone knowing what the > changes were between D and F are going to be pretty low :). Thanks (can't be said often enough) for making available Al! Whatever the differences are between rev. F and your Rev. D backplane, you will certainly be able to check the "non-UNIBUS-ness" of slot 9 ... gd luck, - Henk. From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 5 13:14:45 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:14:45 -0700 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing In-Reply-To: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> References: <4A793889.8000403@iais.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <4A79CC15.2030900@bitsavers.org> Holger Veit wrote: > Hi, > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/18114130/ELBUG-monitor-listing Holger forwarded me the text file, and it has been uploaded to http://bitsavers.org/pdf/national/scmp/elektor He has also sent several other things related to the SC/MP which I need to get on line as well. From rachael at dahl-pind.dk Wed Aug 5 15:33:44 2009 From: rachael at dahl-pind.dk (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:33:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220908050941m5eeb2589u39d6e41213b165c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have brough a samsung nc20, those machines have a 12.1" screen with 1280x800 resolution, and what I must say a quiet good keyboard, for a none thinkpad laptop. I had one of those 10" asus netbooks, but they are just too small to do any typing on, everything works out of the box with linux though, nc20 needed a little bit of work to get the powersaving and crypto features of the via nano cpu working. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind From f.heite at hccnet.nl Wed Aug 5 16:04:10 2009 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:04:10 +0200 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing References: Message-ID: <87535F8179F8404EB2521B4531A7AA46@centrino> ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:45:13 +0200 > From: Holger Veit > Subject: ELBUG monitor listing > > You can find a commented listing at the following link: > http://www.scribd.com/doc/18114130/ELBUG-monitor-listing Very interesting stuff! Holger, are you the author of this commented disassembly? Lying on top of my still-working Elektor SC/MP system, I have the original, 40 page, green Elbug user manual "ELBUG Monitor-Software fuer den Elektor-SC/MP-Mikrokomputer" written by Elbug author Dr. H. (Hans) Huschitt, dated November 1977. This has a description of Elbug, the commented source code, and some flowcharts - all in German. It's my intention to scan and publish this manual, once my Elektor-SC/MP-Elbug emulator wil be ready - but probably that will not be before next year. However, if it would make some Classiccmp people happy, I could scan this Elbug manual next week and send it by email. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Have fun, Freek Heite. From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Aug 5 16:40:54 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:40:54 -0400 Subject: Anyone ever work in KIC(CAD) IC Layout??? In-Reply-To: <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003a01c9d891$5ec005b0$1c401110$@com> <4A137A96.8040103@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4A79FC66.8040304@atarimuseum.com> Hi, I am looking to see if I can recover several chip layouts from Atari archives that I have from the AED (Advanced Engineering Division) at Atari. They used a CAD IC Layout program called KIC and I'm trying to see if anyone ever worked with that program or subsequent upgrades in the 80's or 90's Thanks, Curt From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Aug 5 16:49:50 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:49:50 -0400 Subject: Digital Marketing - CPM company from Walnut Creek... In-Reply-To: <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003a01c9d891$5ec005b0$1c401110$@com> <4A137A96.8040103@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4A79FE7E.3070006@atarimuseum.com> Anybody remember this company or who might've worked at it??? From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Wed Aug 5 18:29:57 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:29:57 -0400 Subject: Paging Jay West In-Reply-To: <200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to> <200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4A7A15F5.9000408@compsys.to> >Patrick Finnegan wrote: >>On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > >>I have sent a number of e-mails to Jay without a response. >> >>Has anyone been in touch with Jay as recently as the last >>week or two? >> >Yes, he's still around, and aware that people have been trying to >contact him. He's just been swamped with work related stuff (as >usual). > Jay helped me about 10 years ago with a file. I have another one for him, but the timing is not important. So I can wait for a while until things are only in a crisis as opposed to the world coming to an end. Jay, if you see this, let me know when you are not so busy. If you read the e-mails from last week, you will understand. Please ask if you have any questions, suggestions or comments. Jerome Fine From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Wed Aug 5 18:36:45 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: logic probe case group buy Message-ID: I have placed the order with kelvin.com for the logic probe cases. To date I have not yet seen payment from two people (you know who you are). Don't worry too much -- I ordered the amount you two wanted. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 5 19:39:29 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:39:29 -0700 Subject: Anyone ever work in KIC(CAD) IC Layout??? In-Reply-To: <4A79FC66.8040304@atarimuseum.com> References: <003a01c9d891$5ec005b0$1c401110$@com> <4A137A96.8040103@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A79FC66.8040304@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <4A7A2641.5080108@bitsavers.org> Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking to see if I can recover several chip layouts from Atari > archives that I have from the AED (Advanced Engineering Division) at > Atari. They used a CAD IC Layout program called KIC and I'm trying to > see if anyone ever worked with that program or subsequent upgrades in > the 80's or 90's KIC was developed at UC Berkeley, and was part of their VLSI tools suite. The company I worked for back then supplied modified firmware for our terminal to support their later IC layout program called MAGIC. Have you found any CIF (Caltech Intermediate Format) files in the directories? If you're lucky, they converted the polygons to CIF, which was a much more common format. It would be nice to find the Berkeley CAD Tools tapes. I have one, but it got munched years ago and is incomplete. There was also a set of tools called Chipmunk developed at Caltech that was interesting since it was developed to run on HP Pascal Workstations. They made a bunch of local mods to the system, which had its roots in UCSD Pascal. From hachti at hachti.de Wed Aug 5 20:59:24 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:59:24 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge Message-ID: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> Hi folks, what do you think about a Unibus to PCI bridge? I think such a device - if well done - could be real fun. There has been a commercial approach somewhere - but it doesn't seem to be available anymore. Hardware needed: A PCI board with an FPGA and full Unibus connection. Possible features: * Unibus mapping into PC address space. Makes Unibus devices and memory directly visible to the PC. Porting of old Unix drivers for RK, RP, TC, and friends could become possible. * Unibus bus arbitration (if no CPU with arbiter on the bus) * Unibus memory implementation * Unibus->PCI interrupt forwarding With those features (arbiter and memory only if not already present on the bus) it should be possible to use ALL Unibus peripherals from the PC. Make memory dumps of a running system (Unibus is multi master capable). It would even become possible to integrate real peripherals with SIMH :-) Possible addons: * QBus interface * Unibus mass storage device implementations (using a storage card on the FPGA board or the PC) I'm thinking of this because I got a whole bunch of Unibus stuff (CPUs and peripherals) in unknown condition. Comments welcome! Best wishes, Philipp :-) -- http://www.hachti.de From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 5 21:31:35 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:31:35 -0500 Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <20090804141838.T7277@shell.lmi.net> References: <20090802110053.E81520@shell.lmi.net> <568335.65842.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4A76FB28.26498.199537CA@cclist.sydex.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20090804065552.03e51b60@mail.threedee.com> <20090804141838.T7277@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090805213106.04968e98@mail.threedee.com> At 04:19 PM 8/4/2009, Fred Cisin wrote: >On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, John Foust wrote: >> Oh, Dvorak you mean. > >Does he have his shirtsleeves rolled up on the cover? >Did he do a Whisky ad? Oh, I still curse the name Norton on a weekly basis. - John From evan at snarc.net Wed Aug 5 22:01:02 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:01:02 -0400 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement Message-ID: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> This year's VCF East (6.0) keynote speaker is Ted Hurewitz. Unlike some of our past keynoters -- Bill Mauchly, Chuck Peddle, David Ahl, etc. -- most collectors probably never heard of Mr. Hurewitz. But he's quite awesome. He was in the engineering group for RCA's Bizmac tube computer, and he worked on the design for the RCA 501. This all went down in Camden, N.J. in the 1950s. Amusing sidebar: one of his employees was Arnold Spielberg -- father of Steven. Some info about Bizmac is here: http://www.cedmagic.com/history/rca-bizmac-computer.html and also here: http://www.computermuseum.li/Testpage/RCA-Bizmac-1951.htm ...... some info about the 501 is here: http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/RCA/RCA.501.1958.102646273.pdf (and in many other places, according to Google.) Hurewitz will give his lecture on the morning of Sat., Sept. 12 (exact time to be determined) followed by audience Q&A. From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 5 22:16:25 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:16:25 -0700 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement In-Reply-To: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> References: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> Message-ID: <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> Evan Koblentz wrote: > Amusing sidebar: one of his > employees was Arnold Spielberg -- father of Steven. > Mr Spielberg has a rather famous career in the computer industry, and should be known for more than being the father of a moviemaker. http://www.theinstitute.ieee.org/portal/site/tionline/menuitem.130a3558587d56e8fb2275875bac26c8/index.jsp?&pName=institute_level1_article&TheCat=1016&article=tionline/legacy/inst2007/jan07/memberprofile.xml& He won the IEEE's computer pioneer award in 2007 for his work at RCA on the first automated cash register. From there he developed process control computers at GE, was the architect of the IBM 1800 (which lead to the 1130) was VP of Engineering at SDS, and had a long career at Unisys. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Aug 5 22:27:50 2009 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:27:50 -0500 Subject: Paging Jay West References: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to><200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4A7A15F5.9000408@compsys.to> Message-ID: <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> Yes, saw the original emails Jerome. I read each the day you sent them, but they didn't seem super time-sensitive so I've been dealing with a few other things. Sorry for the slow response! (In my best monty python voice) But I'm not dead yet! J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: Re: Paging Jay West > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >>>On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >> >>>I have sent a number of e-mails to Jay without a response. >>> >>>Has anyone been in touch with Jay as recently as the last >>>week or two? >>> >>Yes, he's still around, and aware that people have been trying to contact >>him. He's just been swamped with work related stuff (as usual). >> > Jay helped me about 10 years ago with a file. I have another one for him, > but the timing is not important. So I can wait for a while until things > are only > in a crisis as opposed to the world coming to an end. > > Jay, if you see this, let me know when you are not so busy. If you read > the > e-mails from last week, you will understand. Please ask if you have any > questions, suggestions or comments. > > Jerome Fine From evan at snarc.net Wed Aug 5 22:23:08 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:23:08 -0400 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement In-Reply-To: <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> References: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A7A4C9C.7030501@snarc.net> > >> Amusing sidebar: one of his employees was Arnold Spielberg -- father >> of Steven. > Mr Spielberg has a rather famous career in the computer industry, and > should be known for more than being the father of a moviemaker. > > http://www.theinstitute.ieee.org/portal/site/tionline/menuitem.130a3558587d56e8fb2275875bac26c8/index.jsp?&pName=institute_level1_article&TheCat=1016&article=tionline/legacy/inst2007/jan07/memberprofile.xml& > > > He won the IEEE's computer pioneer award in 2007 for his work at RCA > on the first automated cash register. From there he developed process > control computers at GE, was the architect of the IBM 1800 (which lead > to the 1130) was VP of Engineering at SDS, and had a long career at > Unisys. Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for sharing. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Aug 5 22:30:47 2009 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:30:47 -0500 Subject: Anyone been in touch with Jay West? References: <582369.84980.qm@web23407.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00fd01ca1646$4a16a400$c600a8c0@JWEST> Andrew wrote... >Doesn't he normally drop into the IRC chat regularly? Yes. Plus, several of the listmembers have my work email and phone number - and contact me rather quickly if there's a problem :) Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Aug 5 22:34:09 2009 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:34:09 -0500 Subject: List admin problems? References: <495351.36170.qm@web82601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A71973A.3010606@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <011501ca1646$c24da270$c600a8c0@JWEST> It was written... > You're not the only one. Joe Rigdon, an old timer here has tried for > months to get back on the list.... > - Mike Odd, I talked to Joe pretty recently and I wasn't aware of a problem. I will get in touch with him again. Jay From evan at snarc.net Wed Aug 5 22:36:18 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:36:18 -0400 Subject: Paging Jay West In-Reply-To: <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> References: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to><200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4A7A15F5.9000408@compsys.to> <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> Message-ID: <4A7A4FB2.9040703@snarc.net> > (In my best monty python voice) But I'm not dead yet! I'm not touching THAT joke .... last time you disappeared these guys almost ripped my head off for having some fun with it. :-) From ploopster at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 23:52:13 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:52:13 -0400 Subject: Important DEC auction on ebay (USA) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7A617D.7060307@gmail.com> Stephane Tsacas wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370400397 > A > quite impressive DEC bits lot, including some PDP's and VAXEN (including a > VAX750), RA disks etc. > Local pick up only, Plainfield, NH, United States... Nice collection. A bit overpriced... Peace... Sridhar From iamvirtual at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 21:14:59 2009 From: iamvirtual at gmail.com (B M) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:14:59 -0600 Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? Message-ID: <2645f9870908051914l668ce3b2h27268cea7820368e@mail.gmail.com> I have loaded the standard Ubuntu 9.04 on my Asus 901. Works great. The screen resolution is 1024x600 which is adequate, but is a little low. The keyboard on the 9" Asus Eepc's are cramped. The 10" is much closer to the laptop sized keyboard. I use an USB-to-RS232 adapter to talk to my paper tape reader and my DecTapeII drive. The small size of the netbook is quite handy for use as a portable terminal. Wireless works properly on my Asus machine using the latest standard Ubuntu 9.04 release. I have not tried using Bluetooth with it. I upgraded the memory in mine from 1GB to 2GB. Boot time is impressive. <30 seconds for full boot. <10 seconds for resume from standby. Feel free to contact me offline if you have any questions. --barrym From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Aug 6 03:39:00 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:39:00 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> Message-ID: <20090806103900.31ab3b84.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:59:24 +0200 Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > Possible features: You will need an IOMMU, a "UniBus map", also. UniBus has 18 address bits, QBus 22. UniBus and QBus peripherals use bus master DMA to move data into main memory. But with only 18 / 22 Address bits these peripherals can't access the whole main memory. You would need ugly hacks like DMA bounce buffers and double memory copies to work around that. Therefore you need a programmable I/O memory management unit in the bus bridge that translates UniBus to PCI addresses. Have a look at the QBus / UniBus map / IOMMU on VAXen... Keep in mind that todays PeeCees are 64 bit... > * Unibus->PCI interrupt forwarding Most likely you will need some sort of slave interrupt controller. And when you do it: Make it UniBus or QBus selectable. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 6 09:48:51 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:48:51 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> Message-ID: <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> On 6 Aug 2009 at 3:59, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > what do you think about a Unibus to PCI bridge? > I think such a device - if well done - could be real fun. There has > been a commercial approach somewhere - but it doesn't seem to be > available anymore. Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Osprey ISA QBus/UniBus adapters from Strobe Data? http://www.strobedata.com/home/products.html --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 6 11:23:28 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 6 Aug 2009 at 3:59, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > >> what do you think about a Unibus to PCI bridge? >> I think such a device - if well done - could be real fun. There has >> been a commercial approach somewhere - but it doesn't seem to be >> available anymore. > > Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Osprey ISA QBus/UniBus > adapters from Strobe Data? > > http://www.strobedata.com/home/products.html There are/were PCI adapters as well. Someone like John Wilson would have details on them. Zane From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 6 11:56:13 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:56:13 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A7B0B2D.2090203@bitsavers.org> Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 6 Aug 2009 at 3:59, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > >> what do you think about a Unibus to PCI bridge? >> I think such a device - if well done - could be real fun. There has >> been a commercial approach somewhere - but it doesn't seem to be >> available anymore. > > Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Osprey ISA QBus/UniBus > adapters from Strobe Data? There were also adapters made by Bit 3, which was bought by SBS Technologies. They had a common 10 pin serial interface between the different adapters, and also had an option for a shared RAM on the card. From eric940 at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 12:32:43 2009 From: eric940 at gmail.com (eric) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:32:43 -0700 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement In-Reply-To: <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> References: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: > Mr Spielberg has a rather famous career in the computer > industry, and should be known for more than being the father > of a moviemaker. > > He won the IEEE's computer pioneer award in 2007 for his > work at RCA on the first automated cash register. From there > he developed process control computers at GE, was the architect > of the IBM 1800 (which lead to the 1130) was VP of Engineering > at SDS, and had a long career at Unisys. Interesting story about his SDS tenure was that he (Arnold) would always complain about his "long haired son" (late 60s, we're talking) not paying much attention to high school studies, and walking around with a bunch of cameras equipment slung about his neck. Always tried to sneak into MGM studios (or was it some other big flick producer, I forget) to further his craft, but was tossed from the premises. SDS's founder, Max Palevsky, though up in age, limited in mobility, and somewhat frail, is still thankfully with us as of a week and a half ago. And the same for many of the first founding employees (understandable, given the company was founded in 1961.). A reunion bash for a select group of [former] employees was just thrown by Max at his oceanfront property along the Southern California coast. No, I wasn't invited, but a family member was. To further the story, Max seemed to have a disdain for Steven's movies (this was by the mid-1970s), yet went on himself to produce some odd documentary and other [now side-note] movies in this time frame. There was a great SDS Panel discussion held at CHM back in November 2007. It was video taped, but last I checked, it wasn't apparently available on the website though. Eric From pontus at update.uu.se Thu Aug 6 12:47:33 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:47:33 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A7B1735.5070408@update.uu.se> Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 6 Aug 2009 at 3:59, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > > >> what do you think about a Unibus to PCI bridge? >> I think such a device - if well done - could be real fun. There has >> been a commercial approach somewhere - but it doesn't seem to be >> available anymore. >> > > Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Osprey ISA QBus/UniBus > adapters from Strobe Data? > > http://www.strobedata.com/home/products.html > > --Chuck > > As others have said, there were PCI-> qbus/unibus cards. In fact, here are the specs: http://www.dectime.se/images/BCI-2104%20Qbus%20adapter.pdf http://www.dectime.se/images/BCI-2004%20Unibus%20adapter.pdf And the company homepage saying they are discontinued :( http://www.logical-co.com/Pci/genpci.htm I have contacted the Swedish resaler and asked if they have any in stock, but I doubt it. If anyone has some in their garage, I'm in the market for one of each :) /P From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Aug 6 12:47:46 2009 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:47:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, I bought one that isn't Linux, it's XP Home, but I am VERY happy with it. I got it from TigerDirect, it's an Acer Aspire One. It was a "refurb", but I can't tell it from new. 1GB of memory, Atom processor, 8.9" screen, 160GB [real] hard drive .... I paid $199, with $3 shipping. I opened the unit up and increased the RAM to 1.5GB, which is the max for this unit. The chipset on this one is an Intel 945, so it's video system is actually powerful enough to run Vista's "Aero" interface if I wanted to do so. The unit also has a built-in modem, wired Ethernet and WiFi, plus three USB 2.0 ports and a slot that takes many types of flash memory cards. You can find "refub" netbooks VERY cheap ... as low as $149. They are usually some variant of Asus Eee or Acer Aspire One. At the low end, they usually have the 8.9" screen and tiny 4GB SSD's (solid state drives). In general, you can put Linux or XP Home on any of these machines (XP Home is tight fit in a 4GB solid state drive, however ... although it can be done). Some of the sources I would look at to find a cheap netbook: 1. Woot.com 2. Sellout.woot.com 3. TigerDirect 4. Buy.com And there are others. Surprisingly, Wal-Mart has had some good deals on Netbooks (they had the one I bought as a new unit rather than a refurb for $249). Screen size is a matter of choice, the small screen size that I have has fallen out of favor and the 10" screens are now more common .... but the resolution is the same, and the difference is only 1.2" diagonal, but the entire laptop is larger. Keyboard size is also an issue; I'm happy with mine but it's a bit smaller than normal, again, a concession to overall machine size. Some of the Asus Eee's also have an issue, apparently, with a non-standard location of the right shift key (again, size not withstanding). If possible, look for a machine with the "Atom" processor rather than a Celeron; the Atom is faster and also uses less power. Many of the models are offered with a "3-cell" or a "6-cell" battery, obviously the 6-cell battery lasts longer (but, again, is bigger and heavier). Keep in mind that you will probably want to buy an external optical drive if for nothing else than loading software. To do this cheap, salvage a drive from a dead laptop and get a slimline USB optical drive case on E-Bay (about $12). You can use a burner or even a DVD burner if you want to. I know the original post was about Linux OS models, but I personally prefer and get a lot more use from XP. If you have a model with a "real" hard drive, you can go up to 500GB, although the 160GB drive that mine came with is fine for this type of unit. From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 6 12:53:23 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:53:23 -0700 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement In-Reply-To: References: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A7B1893.9050401@bitsavers.org> eric wrote: > There was a great SDS Panel discussion held at CHM back in November > 2007. It was video taped, but last I checked, it wasn't apparently > available on the website though. > I think it's in the queue waiting to be transcribed. This was part of a reunion held then for a lot of SDS folks. We brought out one of the 920's that we have for the event. It was interesting to talk to the Sigma architects about its origins, and finding out how many of the software people came from SDC and worked on SAGE. We've also recorded an oral history with Robert Beck, who was the cofounder of SDS with Max, and who worked on MADDIDA, the G15 and the PB-250. From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 6 13:01:13 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:01:13 -0700 Subject: HP C3010 drives (SF Bay Area) Message-ID: <4A7B1A69.2030500@bitsavers.org> I will have about 20 HP 2gb 5" HD50 HV differential drives available for pickup in the Bay Area, if someone has a use for them, in about a week. Mail me off list if interested. I'll have them tagged as dead if any aren't working. Unfortunately BACCL is gone, or I would have posted them there. From roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk Thu Aug 6 13:07:03 2009 From: roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk (Roger Holmes) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:07:03 +0100 Subject: Lisa 2 (Mac XL) Screen showing multiple images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just for a change, I don't want to talk about my ICT 1301. We are having a clear out at work and I'm taking various bit home (like an H.P. DraftMaster MX+ A0/E sized plotter as well as a little 7475A A3/B size plotter). There is also a Graphtec MP3200 flatbed plotter. It seems to be all there except the plug-in power supply which supplies 7v and 24v DC through an unusual 3 pin plug. I don't suppose anyone has a spare power supply, or even just the socket ? (or receptacle for US readers) I've taken my old Lisa 2 home after a few years disuse and tried it out. It currently has MacWorks installed on the hard disc and it booted fine but the screen has a problem, it shows three smudged menu bars equally spaced down the screen and it also has fairly bright fly back lines at about 30 degree angles. I have the official spares kit for it but never went on the training course as I programmed them, someone else who has now left the company, repaired them. Is this likely to be a minor logic fault in the video generation circuitry, presumably on the I/O board, or there is a small board in the spares kit which handles the high tension for the screen, is it more likely to be that? How do I get at the HT board? Do I have to remove the four screws at the front of the CRT? It seems unlikely Apple would have made engineers do that but how else can I get into the HT enclosure? Roger Holmes From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 6 15:17:35 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:17:35 -0700 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7B0B2D.2090203@bitsavers.org> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de>, <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A7B0B2D.2090203@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A7B3A5F.30993.89EB924@cclist.sydex.com> On 6 Aug 2009 at 9:56, Al Kossow wrote: > There were also adapters made by Bit 3, which was bought by SBS > Technologies. > > They had a common 10 pin serial interface between the different > adapters, and also had an option for a shared RAM on the card. There's also this thing but it looks fairly involved due to the required "option modules": http://www.comwaretech.com/VAX/Bqp2300a.pdf Cheers, Chuck From ray at arachelian.com Thu Aug 6 16:13:53 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:13:53 -0400 Subject: Lisa 2 (Mac XL) Screen showing multiple images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7B4791.3040908@arachelian.com> Roger Holmes wrote: > I've taken my old Lisa 2 home after a few years disuse and tried it > out. It currently has MacWorks installed on the hard disc and it > booted fine but the screen has a problem, it shows three smudged menu > bars equally spaced down the screen and it also has fairly bright fly > back lines at about 30 degree angles. > > I have the official spares kit for it but never went on the training > course as I programmed them, someone else who has now left the > company, repaired them. > > Is this likely to be a minor logic fault in the video generation > circuitry, presumably on the I/O board, or there is a small board in > the spares kit which handles the high tension for the screen, is it > more likely to be that? > > How do I get at the HT board? Do I have to remove the four screws at > the front of the CRT? It seems unlikely Apple would have made > engineers do that but how else can I get into the HT enclosure? Unplug all cables from the back. Unlock the back panel by twisting the two screw locks, and pull it down. Next find the two thumb indentations under the Lisa display in the front, push up and remove the front panel. Next remove the top of the case. You'll find the analog card right behind the CRT. It's accessible from the top. You can crush a small bit of cardboard - a small crumpled slice of one of those fall out subscription cards from magazines will work nicely. Reconnect the power & mouse. In the front, there's a small power cut off switch around where the thumb indentation on the front of the case is, jam the bit cardboard in there. There's another one in the back near where one of the thumb screw locks is. Doing so will allow you to turn the Lisa on with the case off and adjust the pots on the analog board. If you've had the screen modification kit (ROM version will show as 3A/88 or 3A/A8), you may have a transformer between the analog board and the CRT. Perhaps this is related to the issue. Problems could be anywhere from the VS ROM on the I/O board, or the signals from the I/O board going out through the motherboard to the analogboard, and also in the power supply. Before you do much else, I'd disconnect the I/O board, and motherboard and clean out the contacts. Ditto for the power supply. Usual anti-static precautions apply to the card cage/motherboard. After you do that, and whatever you've used to clean the contacts is dry and clean, play with the pots on the analog board (I've had good luck with DeOxit, other stuff works too, as does a rubber eraser - but caution there as these can cause static buildup and might scrape the contacts off if they're worn.) The pots on the analog board are usually glued down so note their position before touching them, and be careful not to crack them, or you'll have yet another part to replace. :-) wiggling them around with a screw driver gently is best - if you can find a plastic tipped one, so much the better, or if not shave down a plastic knife into the shape of a flathead screwdriver so you don't electrocute yourself, or short something out by accident. (I've personally used metal ones and have been careful, so YMMV.) If it's not a 2/10 (if it has an external parallel port on the motherboard) make sure it no longer has the AA NiCad batteries, if it does and they've leaked, they could have damaged the I/O board. Usual warnings about electrocution and causing damage to the Lisa through shorts apply, but you sound like you know what you're doing so I'll spare the usual broiler plate babble about the dangers of touching the wrong items while the machine is powered on and frying yourself, etc. :) Have fun. From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Thu Aug 6 19:26:36 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:26:36 -0400 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > >On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> >On 6 Aug 2009 at 3:59, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: >> >>> what do you think about a Unibus to PCI bridge? >>> I think such a device - if well done - could be real fun. There has >>> been a commercial approach somewhere - but it doesn't seem to be >>> available anymore. >> >> Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Osprey ISA QBus/UniBus >> adapters from Strobe Data? >> >> http://www.strobedata.com/home/products.html > > There are/were PCI adapters as well. Someone like John Wilson would have > details on them. I suggest that the first thing you decide when you use a Unibus <=> PCI bridge is which CPU will be used to run the code. If you are running native x86 code, then the choice is fairly obvious since I don't seem to ever have seen an x86 emulator written for a Unibus based system. On the other hand, if you are executing PDP-11 code and you are a commercial user (not very likely on this list I admit), then John Wilson sells the license for about the same price for Ersatz-11 as the bridge hardware. The current problem is that the company that used to build the bridge hardware stopped making the bridge a number of years ago, if I remember correctly. The real question is why you want to make use of the bridge hardware. About the only reason is that you have VERY unique Unibus hardware that is not emulated by Ersatz-11. Can you specify what that hardware does? That hardware might be easier to emulate than you think. If the question is rhetorical, then until there is a specific need, the cost of development of new hardware is probably not worth while. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From rcini at optonline.net Thu Aug 6 20:53:47 2009 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:53:47 -0400 Subject: OT: some random books available Message-ID: All: I cleaned off my bookshelf the other day and came across the following stuff that I no longer need: * The Best of Ciarcia?s Circuit Cellar...$5 (this is a compilation book) * TRS-80 Microcomputer Technical Reference Manual (Model I schematics and tech ref)...$5 * A slew of Tandy 2000 manuals: MS-DOS and GW-BASIC binders (NO disks), Introduction to the Tandy 2000, Tandy 2000 Quick Reference, Programmer?s Reference, and Technical Reference...$60 (basically my cost). * Inside Commodore DOS...$5 All prices in addition to shipping to the continental US from 11791. I would also consider making a trade or partial trade...I'm looking for a working Atari 800 system unit (with BASIC, 48k and a power supply). If interested, drop me a note off-list. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://www.classiccmp.org/cini From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 6 21:46:33 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:46:33 -0400 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Thu, August 6, 2009 8:26 pm, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > The real question is why you want to make use of the bridge hardware. > About the only reason is that you have VERY unique Unibus hardware > that is not emulated by Ersatz-11. Can you specify what that hardware > does? That hardware might be easier to emulate than you think. I'd have a hard time getting data off of my thirty or so RK07 packs using an emulated RK07+RK611.. > If the question is rhetorical, then until there is a specific need, the > cost of > development of new hardware is probably not worth while. I'd buy a few.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From hachti at hachti.de Fri Aug 7 00:29:19 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:29:19 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <20090806103900.31ab3b84.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <20090806103900.31ab3b84.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <4A7BBBAF.2050504@hachti.de> Hi Jochen, > You will need an IOMMU, a "UniBus map", also. UniBus has 18 address > bits, QBus 22. UniBus and QBus peripherals use bus master DMA to move > data into main memory. But with only 18 / 22 Address bits these > peripherals can't access the whole main memory. Do I? I don't even know what you mean! I would map the entire 18/22 bit address space into the PC address space. From a PC point of view, the complete Unibus address space will be visible with a certain address offset (defined by the PnP Bios and friends, who assign the addresses). The Unibus side will not be able to look into the PC. But.... see nex paragraph. > You would need ugly > hacks like DMA bounce buffers and double memory copies to work around > that. What about simply some memory on the Unibus (I don't mention Qbus for saving keypresses)? Everything on the Unibus can see memory on the Unibus. And the PC as well. That makes thinks quite easy. Yes, there is a performance impact this way because your Unibus peripherals cannot copy their data *somewhere* into the PC address space. But I simply don't mind :-) The Unibus memory could also be integrated into the controller. That would probably that what you call DMA bounce buffer. But that's no black magic, I suppose. > Therefore you need a programmable I/O memory management unit in > the bus bridge that translates UniBus to PCI addresses. Have a look at > the QBus / UniBus map / IOMMU on VAXen... Keep in mind that todays > PeeCees are 64 bit... As stated above, I will luckily live without :-) When I read a block of data from a device, the device *slowly* fills a buffer somewhere it can see. Then I take it out. I don't mind the time I need to pull/push that data. With a fast buffer, the PC can initiate a new transfer, service the buffer, and wait for hours until the next portion of data has been processed by the Unibus peripheral! >> * Unibus->PCI interrupt forwarding > Most likely you will need some sort of slave interrupt controller. Hm. Of course. The interrupts could be directly passed on to the PC. But for the vectors, there must be built a small interrogation circuit. But... Every FPGA you can buy today has more capacities than it needs to do all that, even more, and containing a complete VAX implementation plus a pdp11 plus a pdp8.... > And when you do it: Make it UniBus or QBus selectable. Yes, that's a good idea. Must get a card that can interface to both. The rest is software. Best wishes, Philipp -- http://www.hachti.de From hachti at hachti.de Fri Aug 7 00:30:04 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:30:04 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A7BBBDC.4020602@hachti.de> > Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Osprey ISA QBus/UniBus > adapters from Strobe Data? > > http://www.strobedata.com/home/products.html > > --Chuck Hm, perhaps... But those are ISA and probably very expensive. I even think of PCIe....! -- http://www.hachti.de From hachti at hachti.de Fri Aug 7 00:41:47 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:41:47 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> Message-ID: <4A7BBE9B.7040302@hachti.de> Hi Jerome, > I suggest that the first thing you decide when you use a Unibus <=> PCI > bridge is which CPU will be used to run the code. Which code? The PC runs PC code, the pdp11 runs its own code. And both at once, if they like! > The real question is why you want to make use of the bridge hardware. What a question! > About the only reason is that you have VERY unique Unibus hardware > that is not emulated by Ersatz-11. > Can you specify what that hardware > does? That hardware might be easier to emulate than you think. HA HA HA!!!!! Ersatz-11 and SIMH can NOT emulate real hardware! Where can I put my RK05 pack into one of them? How do I use them to make a Unix installation tape that can be read in by the 11/45 via TU10? How do I use them to test my RC11 controller? I (and not only I!) am a user and collector of real hardware. My goal is definitively not the simulation. I want the bridge as a bridge to the "new world". To make things a bit easier. If I wanted to emulate everything, I would not spend $$ (only two Dollar signs!) and time for hauling tons of heavy gear all over the country! I love SIMH for development and test purposes. But in the end, everything goes to real iron.... > If the question is rhetorical, then until there is a specific need, the > cost of > development of new hardware is probably not worth while. This is a hobby. As such it doesn't need any justification. There is no reason. Best wishes, Philipp -- http://www.hachti.de From hachti at hachti.de Fri Aug 7 00:49:58 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:49:58 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> Message-ID: <4A7BC086.8050300@hachti.de> Hi Dave :-) > I'd have a hard time getting data off of my thirty or so RK07 packs > using an emulated RK07+RK611.. Full Ack! I only don't have a RK07 yet :-) Perhaps I could wind a DECTape around my PC to get it into one of the simulators? >> If the question is rhetorical, then until there is a specific need, the >> cost of >> development of new hardware is probably not worth while. > > I'd buy a few.. Your're serious? That could make the thing at least affordable to build. The most important (and difficult for me) part is to design a PCB with an FPGA that plugs into the PCI bus. The other ugly part is the cabling from there to the Unibus/Qbus. The rest is programmable. Those are the features to expect in an early version: * Unibus mapping to PC's memory * Interrupt forwarding to PCI INTA-INTD * Interrupt vector interrogation mechanism Later then: * Unibus arbitration * Unibus memory * QBus Software would initially consist of a "do nothing"-driver for Linux. It would simply find the card and then export the base address into the kernel name space. Other drivers then could use that. Probably also some code for interrupt handling. I am a bit reluctant to register the bridge as a /proc/bus/unibus thing. That would probably only work without much use, as there are no PnP things on the Unibus. Best wishes, Philipp -- http://www.hachti.de From hachti at hachti.de Fri Aug 7 00:51:44 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:51:44 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7B0B2D.2090203@bitsavers.org> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B0B2D.2090203@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A7BC0F0.2020808@hachti.de> Hi Al, > There were also adapters made by Bit 3, which was bought by SBS > Technologies. There *were*....! And all commercial stuff is most probably far out of my horizon of affordability :-( Best wishes, Philipp :-) P.S.: Did you get my last email a few days ago? -- http://www.hachti.de From hachti at hachti.de Fri Aug 7 00:52:42 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:52:42 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7B1735.5070408@update.uu.se> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B1735.5070408@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <4A7BC12A.7070903@hachti.de> Hi Pontus, > As others have said, there were PCI-> qbus/unibus cards. In fact, here > are the specs: > > http://www.dectime.se/images/BCI-2104%20Qbus%20adapter.pdf > http://www.dectime.se/images/BCI-2004%20Unibus%20adapter.pdf > > And the company homepage saying they are discontinued :( > > http://www.logical-co.com/Pci/genpci.htm That's the page I've seen as well :-( > If anyone has some in their garage, I'm in the market for one of each :) Would you be interested in a homebrew version as well? Best wishes, Philipp :) -- http://www.hachti.de From pontus at Update.UU.SE Fri Aug 7 02:14:45 2009 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:14:45 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7BC12A.7070903@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B1735.5070408@update.uu.se> <4A7BC12A.7070903@hachti.de> Message-ID: <20090807071445.GA1569@Update.UU.SE> Hi Hacthi, > >If anyone has some in their garage, I'm in the market for one of each :) > Would you be interested in a homebrew version as well? Well, yes, it could make bringing my 11/750 back a bit easier and driving a TU77 without an big honking pdp/vax sounds fun. I'd be more interested in a unibus bridge. I have no PCB-making nor FPGA skills at all, but if I can contribute, I'll try. Cheers, Pontus. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Aug 7 03:09:02 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:09:02 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7BBBDC.4020602@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7BBBDC.4020602@hachti.de> Message-ID: <20090807100902.5007a5f3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:30:04 +0200 Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > I even think of PCIe....! This would be a big +. I am afraid that PCI is going to die like ISA did. (In case of ISA its death was good and should have happened far earlier then it did.) So if you design a PCI card today you may have trouble to find an old PeeCee with PCI slots tomorow. On the other side: Plain old PCI is a + as PCI cards can be used in e.g. UltraSPARC machines like a U10 or DEC Alphas. Have a look at e.g. http://www.opencores.org/ There are several PCI based projects. Maybe you can use an existing "FPGA on PCI(e) card" design. Probably you can by a readyly made PCI card. So all you need is a doughter card with proper UniBus / QBus transceivers. If you get the hardware done I will volunteer to write a NetBSD bus driver. (NetBSD does a very good job in abstracting device driver buss accesses. If I write a single PCI to UniBus / QBus bus bridge driver all UniBus / QBus device driver will just work with it. There is no modification of the device drivers needed.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 7 03:38:51 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 01:38:51 -0700 Subject: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... In-Reply-To: References: <4A76B050.9070206@softjar.se> <4A79102F.8030406@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A7BE81B.7010002@mail.msu.edu> Henk Gooijen wrote: >> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:53:03 -0700 >> From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu >> To: >> Subject: Re: Re-request for 11/40 unibus clarification... >> >> Thanks! (And thanks also to Al for putting up a set on Bitsavers -- >> downloading now.) >> >> Looks like I have wire wrap Rev D on my backplane. Looks like the >> Bitsavers copy is Rev F. I suppose the odds of anyone knowing what the >> changes were between D and F are going to be pretty low :). >> > > Thanks (can't be said often enough) for making available Al! > > Whatever the differences are between rev. F and your Rev. D backplane, > you will certainly be able to check the "non-UNIBUS-ness" of slot 9 ... > > gd luck, > - Henk. > > Well, I spent the evening probing out the slot 9 wiring and double checking it with the print set, and everything checked out a-ok. I was really disappointed :). While I had the backplane out I took the time to give the backplane a good thorough cleaning (contact cleaner + wiping down the connectors with a bit of cardboard in the slots). Still having the same problems. Alas. I suppose I could go back and check for shorts/incorrect connections in the wire wrap for slot 9 but I'll leave that for another night when I have a LOT more spare time as that would involve a lot more probing :). I did at least manage to confirm that the +15V to slot 9 does connect at CU1. (I had mis-identified it as CV1 in my previous mail.) This is quite frustrating. I just want some blinkenlights, is that too much to ask? :) - Josh From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 7 10:19:12 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:19:12 -0400 Subject: Anyone ever work in KIC(CAD) IC Layout??? In-Reply-To: <4A7A2641.5080108@bitsavers.org> References: <003a01c9d891$5ec005b0$1c401110$@com> <4A137A96.8040103@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A79FC66.8040304@atarimuseum.com> <4A7A2641.5080108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A7C45F0.3050107@atarimuseum.com> Hi Al, There are lots of CIF files. Besides KIC there are directories with NEWKIC and PACII as well. This is the User Data backup from a VAX 750, so I am uncertain if the VAX was running Unix or VMS... I know many of the VAX in this particular area at Atari did have Unix on them though. Curt Al Kossow wrote: > Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am looking to see if I can recover several chip layouts from Atari >> archives that I have from the AED (Advanced Engineering Division) at >> Atari. They used a CAD IC Layout program called KIC and I'm trying >> to see if anyone ever worked with that program or subsequent upgrades >> in the 80's or 90's > > KIC was developed at UC Berkeley, and was part of their VLSI tools suite. > The company I worked for back then supplied modified firmware for our > terminal to support their later IC layout program called MAGIC. > > Have you found any CIF (Caltech Intermediate Format) files in the > directories? > > If you're lucky, they converted the polygons to CIF, which was a much > more common > format. > > It would be nice to find the Berkeley CAD Tools tapes. I have one, but > it got > munched years ago and is incomplete. > > There was also a set of tools called Chipmunk developed at Caltech > that was interesting > since it was developed to run on HP Pascal Workstations. They made a > bunch of local > mods to the system, which had its roots in UCSD Pascal. > > > > > From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Aug 7 10:58:51 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:58:51 -0700 Subject: Anyone ever work in KIC(CAD) IC Layout??? In-Reply-To: <4A7C45F0.3050107@atarimuseum.com> References: <003a01c9d891$5ec005b0$1c401110$@com> <4A137A96.8040103@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A139155.8040200@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A79FC66.8040304@atarimuseum.com> <4A7A2641.5080108@bitsavers.org> <4A7C45F0.3050107@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <4A7C4F3B.9080406@bitsavers.org> Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: > This is the User Data backup from a > VAX 750, so I am uncertain if the VAX was running Unix or VMS It should be easy to tell by the format of the file names, or even what program was used to back it up (tar or VMS backup) Most likely it was Unix, since that was what the Berkeley tools were developed on. From tshoppa at wmata.com Fri Aug 7 12:21:29 2009 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:21:29 -0400 Subject: HP C3010 drives (SF Bay Area) Message-ID: Al writes: > I will have about 20 HP 2gb 5" HD50 HV differential > drives available for pickup in the Bay Area I was lucky enough to pick up a bunch of these HP drives in the 90's for a song, they are excellently reliable built-like-a-tank drives. Tim. From eric940 at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 12:29:20 2009 From: eric940 at gmail.com (eric) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:29:20 -0700 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement In-Reply-To: <4A7B1893.9050401@bitsavers.org> References: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> <4A7B1893.9050401@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: Al wrote: > I think it's in the queue waiting to be transcribed. This was part of > a reunion held then for a lot of SDS folks. We brought out one of the > 920's that we have for the event. It was interesting to talk to the Sigma > architects about its origins, and finding out how many of the software > people came from SDC and worked on SAGE. The DVD was given to me by said family member, who attended a local luncheon some months back with a few of the SDS folks. A written transcription would be sweet (i.e., searchable text.) > We've also recorded an oral history with Robert Beck, who was the cofounder > of SDS with Max, and who worked on MADDIDA, the G15 and the PB-250. My family roots have similar lineage to that of Bob Beck (he was hired by Max alongside Bob into SDS from Bendix and then Packard Bell.) Max Palevsky = the business braun of the company, for the most part. Bob Beck = the clearly recognized brains behind the technology. (I suppose a _loose_ comparison to the roles that Jobs and Wozniak played in Apple's success apply here.) Eric From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Aug 7 20:11:12 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:11:12 -0700 Subject: VCF East Keynote Speaker Announcement In-Reply-To: References: <4A7A476E.7060100@snarc.net> <4A7A4B09.20205@bitsavers.org> <4A7B1893.9050401@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A7CD0B0.9060102@bitsavers.org> eric wrote: > My family roots have similar lineage to that of Bob Beck (he was hired > by Max alongside Bob into SDS from Bendix and then Packard Bell.) > Would be interesting to hear more details of Bendix and PB from your contact. Bob Evans (Univ of Utah /E&S) was also there and developed the electronic differential analyzer box (DA-1) for the G-15 before going to UCB and then Univ of Utah. Bob considers the delay memory of the PB-250 to be a significant advance over the drum in the G-15 and MADDIDA. There is also some dispute over how much of a role Harry Huskey really played in the development of the G-15. Bob retired from the computer industry once ICs got into general use. He never really liked them very much. Wayne Lichtenburger, one of the main guys behind the GENIE project at UCB (which became the SDS 940) told me that he really liked the circuits used in the 930 compared to the stuff being sold by DEC at the time because they were better designed. This was after I asked him why they based their timesharing machine design on SDS instead of DEC. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Aug 8 02:37:18 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:37:18 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7BBBAF.2050504@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <20090806103900.31ab3b84.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4A7BBBAF.2050504@hachti.de> Message-ID: <20090808093718.5501defa.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:29:19 +0200 Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > > You will need an IOMMU, a "UniBus map", also. UniBus has 18 address > > bits, QBus 22. UniBus and QBus peripherals use bus master DMA to move > > data into main memory. But with only 18 / 22 Address bits these > > peripherals can't access the whole main memory. > Do I? I don't even know what you mean! I would map the entire 18/22 bit address space into the PC > address space. From a PC point of view, the complete Unibus address space will be visible with a > certain address offset (defined by the PnP Bios and friends, who assign the addresses). > The Unibus side will not be able to look into the PC. But.... see nex paragraph. If we take a 18 bit PDP like the PDP-11/34 everything lives on the UniBus. Everything has at max. 18 bit addresses. No DMA problems here. Every UniBus master can reach all memory when doing DMA. Now imagin somthing like a PDP-11/70 or a VAX. The CPU has more then 18 address bits and memory lives on another bus then the UniBus. The OS needs the data somewhere in memory. If the bus bridge does no address translation a UniBus peripheral can reach only the lower 256 kB of RAM. So if output has to happen the OS needs to copy the data somewhere into the lower 256 kB RAM. Then it needs to initiate the I/O. If this has finished (interrupt) it needs to copy possible input from the lower 256 kB to somewhere else in RAM where the OS needs it. This is ugly. All data needs to be touched twice from the CPU. The OS has to reserve a region of _continious,_physical_ RAM that can be seen by the UniBus. This may be difficould to archieve for the OS or its memory management. What 22 bit PDP-11s and VAXen do is somthing like this: The UniBus bridge has an I/O Memory Management Unit build in. DEC calls it the UniBus map. The UniBus map has a page table. If a UniBus master initiates a memory access the UniBus map takes the addess issued by the bus master. It splits the UniBus address in a lower and upper part to construct the CPU side address. The lower part is 9 bits (= 512 bytes, the VAX page size). These lower 9 bits are copied 1:1 from the UniBus address into the CPU side address. The upper 9 bits of the UniBus address are used as an index into the IOMMU page table. The page table entry contains some permission bits (read, write, ...) and the upper 23 bits of the 32 bit CPU address. This way a 18 bit UniBus address is translated into a 32 bit CPU address. This is very elegant. If I/O has to be done the OS programms the UniBus map with the apropriate translation and initiates the I/O. Due to the address translation, that happens invisible to the UniBus device, a UniBus master DMA can reach the full range of the 32 bit CPU address space. It also enables scatter gather DMA for UniBus peripherals that don't support it. The UniBus peripheral may see only a single continious UniBus DMA memory target. But the UniBus map can split up this into several regions. If there is no valid entry in the page table of the UniBus map main memory is protected against UniBus peripherals go amok, because the bus bridge will not allow access from any UniBus device into main memory. UniBus access must be granted explicitely and can be limited to ceartin regions. Therefore: If you design a PCI-UniBus bridge _*PLEASE*_ implement a proper IOMMU / UniBus map. Everything else will be a ugly kludge. Just copy the VAX UniBus map and you are done. It does exactely what is needed. > > You would need ugly > > hacks like DMA bounce buffers and double memory copies to work around > > that. > What about simply some memory on the Unibus (I don't mention Qbus for saving keypresses)? Everything > on the Unibus can see memory on the Unibus. And the PC as well. That makes thinks quite easy. > Yes, there is a performance impact this way because your Unibus peripherals cannot copy their data > *somewhere* into the PC address space. But I simply don't mind :-) > The Unibus memory could also be integrated into the controller. That would probably that what you > call DMA bounce buffer. But that's no black magic, I suppose. That would be a DMA bounce buffer in hardware. This is still ugly and defeats the reason for DMA. > > Therefore you need a programmable I/O memory management unit in > > the bus bridge that translates UniBus to PCI addresses. Have a look at > > the QBus / UniBus map / IOMMU on VAXen... Keep in mind that todays > > PeeCees are 64 bit... > As stated above, I will luckily live without :-) You will, as it simplifies your hardware design. But it will be a nightmare to the OS programmer that has to fight with it writing a device driver for it. PeeCees suffered from this in the ISA bus era. Now PeeCees suffering from the same problem as PeeCee CPUs have gone 64 bit but PCI is still 32 bit and there is no proper IOMMU in a PeeCee PCI host bridge. Have a look into Suns or Alphas. They have PCI host bridges with IOMMU build in. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jdr_use at bluewin.ch Sat Aug 8 03:29:06 2009 From: jdr_use at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:29:06 +0200 Subject: DG MP200 / DG6095 info sought Message-ID: <4A7D3752.3090902@bluewin.ch> The one piece in my collection that is lacking documentation is my Data General micronova MP/200. It has a 2901 based CPU, 16k or 64k dram memory,( 32x DG1100 DRAMS) and loads of ECO wires. Furthermore it has a DG6095-1 diskdrive. One fixed, one cartridge platter. Is this a 5MB platter ( as previously indicated on this list ) or a 10 MB platter (as indicated on a sticker on the device itself ). So : - any schematics out there ? - any cartridges avaliable ( Europe...) - from the farris website i deduced that Diablo 44 cartridges would fit . Correct? - Formatting software available should I find some fitting cartridges ? Jos From hachti at hachti.de Sat Aug 8 06:19:30 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:19:30 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <20090808093718.5501defa.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <20090806103900.31ab3b84.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4A7BBBAF.2050504@hachti.de> <20090808093718.5501defa.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <4A7D5F42.1080905@hachti.de> Salut again, > Now imagin somthing like a PDP-11/70 or a VAX. The CPU has more then 18 > address bits and memory lives on another bus then the UniBus. The OS > needs the data somewhere in memory. If the bus bridge does no address > translation a UniBus peripheral can reach only the lower 256 kB of RAM. > So if output has to happen the OS needs to copy the data somewhere into > the lower 256 kB RAM. Then it needs to initiate the I/O. If this has > finished (interrupt) it needs to copy possible input from the lower 256 > kB to somewhere else in RAM where the OS needs it. > > This is ugly. All data needs to be touched twice from the CPU. Na und? *g* From a performance point of view, this may be a bit (not too much) ugly. But from the usability point of view, I don't see any great problems. Usability means to be able to hook the real Unibus to a PC style machine. > What 22 bit PDP-11s and VAXen do is somthing like this: The UniBus > bridge has an I/O Memory Management Unit build in. DEC calls it the > UniBus map. The UniBus map has a page table. If a UniBus master > initiates a memory access the UniBus map takes the addess issued by the > bus master. It splits the UniBus address in a lower and upper part to > construct the CPU side address. The lower part is 9 bits (= 512 bytes, > the VAX page size). These lower 9 bits are copied 1:1 from the UniBus > address into the CPU side address. The upper 9 bits of the UniBus > address are used as an index into the IOMMU page table. The page table > entry contains some permission bits (read, write, ...) and the upper 23 > bits of the 32 bit CPU address. This way a 18 bit UniBus address is > translated into a 32 bit CPU address. Ok, it's an MMU for DMA. Would be no real problem to add such a feature. But I still don't see the real value - except some theoretical satisfaction. It would be easy to install a bus mapper between the Unibus and the PCI master interface. Just some more work. > This is very elegant. If I/O has to be done the OS programms the UniBus > map with the apropriate translation and initiates the I/O. No! That's not elegant. A workaround. A kludge! > Therefore: If you design a PCI-UniBus bridge _*PLEASE*_ implement a > proper IOMMU / UniBus map. Everything else will be a ugly kludge. > Just copy the VAX UniBus map and you are done. It does exactely what > is needed. For whom? Who will actually *use* that? The BSD drivers on the PC? If yes, it would be worth a thought. Otherwise: No way. I'll be glad to have a stable interface to the Unibus. Bus master access Unibus->PCI is simply not planned for the first version. I have to define achievable milestones. And this feature is simply far beyond my needs. I want to access the Unibus. And I don't have a VAX that should be able to program my PC. Only 18 bit CPUs and peripheral controllers. Worst case example: Assume the most stupid access method on PCI: 8 bit single transaction read access. That costs 4 cycles per byte. Let's add another cycle for the sake of a bad implementation on the card. Makes 5. Then we come to a read transfer rate of approx. 6.3 MByte/s on the bus. This would allow for roughly 25 complete Unibus memory dumps per second. Now a slightly more optimistic calculation: We read the memory with 32 bit, 128 beat bursts (PCI's address auto-increment feature seems to allow endless bursts). Then we need one clock for four bytes and three extra clocks (address, driver pause, transaction spacing). Makes 128+3=131 bus clocks for 512 bytes. Transfer rate is then 123MByte/s. For a complete Unibus memory readout, it would take about 2ms. Or 492 complete Unibus reads/s. So you have to add 2 ms to every full 256k portion of data transferred by an Unibus DMA device. Assume a real fast device which continuously holds the bus master during operation and doesn't pause, which is capable of 40MB/s (all this is FAR beyond reality!), it would fill the memory in 6.25msec. You would have to add 2 msec for that. So the all over performance would go down to 8.25msec per Unibus fill, that means a transfer rate of 30MByte/s. Wouldn't be acceptible for me. Now let's look at a *real* Unibus disk drive, far faster than any RP, RK, RL, TC, TM: RA81. According to http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/papers/diskperf.pdf, it can transfer up to 2.2 MByte/s. And has a minimum seek time of 6 msec. As it has 456 MB on 1,248 tracks, one track has a capacity of roughly 1.5 times the Unibus capacity. If you now split one cylinder into two portions, you will add at most 1ms extra tranfer time/track. Simply said: Forget about performance issues! > That would be a DMA bounce buffer in hardware. This is still ugly and > defeats the reason for DMA. Yes, I would even do PIO on the Unibus. >> As stated above, I will luckily live without :-) > You will, as it simplifies your hardware design. Yes. > But it will be a > nightmare to the OS programmer that has to fight with it writing a > device driver for it. As you read above, I see no reason to avoid copying data in the driver. The driver has to fight something like driver_read(...,buffer*, size){ ... int res=get_data_from_somewhere(*some_unibus_address); memcpy(buffer, some_unibus_address+unibus_base, max(res,size)); ... } Perhaps I have a too much simplified view on the topic. In that case, I'm grateful for enlightenment! Best wishes, Philipp :-) From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 10:10:57 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:10:57 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7BC086.8050300@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B74BC.5020705@compsys.to> <4A7BC086.8050300@hachti.de> Message-ID: > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:49:58 +0200 > From: hachti at hachti.de > To: > Subject: Re: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge > > Hi Dave :-) > >> I'd have a hard time getting data off of my thirty or so RK07 packs >> using an emulated RK07+RK611.. > Full Ack! I only don't have a RK07 yet :-) > Perhaps I could wind a DECTape around my PC to get it into one of the simulators? Hi Philipp, I have five RK07's (!), want to keep just three of them. I would trade two of them for something else, or some euro's. But you would also need to find the RK611 controller (9 slot backplane with some 5 or 6 modules in it) and the interconnect cable (looks like RL02, but one or two more wires in the cable). I saw on your website that you are looking for RK05 disk drives. I have several of those, and one RK05 is for sale or trade. It is missing the big sticker on the front that shows the drive number. I have not checked or looked inside the drive, could do that if you are interested and apply power to spin up. I can also shoot a few pictures. I guess the biggest problem is the distance. You are in Bremen (according the website) and I am in Helmond (near Eindhoven) NL. have a nice weekend, - Henk www.pdp-11.nl From holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de Thu Aug 6 02:37:11 2009 From: holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de (Holger Veit) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:37:11 +0200 Subject: ELBUG monitor listing In-Reply-To: <87535F8179F8404EB2521B4531A7AA46@centrino> References: <87535F8179F8404EB2521B4531A7AA46@centrino> Message-ID: <4A7A8827.5060605@iais.fraunhofer.de> Freek Heite schrieb: > ----- Original Message ----- > >> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:45:13 +0200 >> From: Holger Veit >> Subject: ELBUG monitor listing >> >> You can find a commented listing at the following link: >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18114130/ELBUG-monitor-listing >> > > Very interesting stuff! Holger, are you the author of this commented > disassembly? > Yes. This was disassembled from the hex dump published in Elektor and analyzed. This was rather simple to do because the code is rather straight forward. I suspect, though, that the call/return mechanism used there stems from some other SC/MP code, and was just integrated. into this monitor code. An indication is the use of the "incall" flag as called by me - this isn't used elsewhere, and is somehow dead code. When I originally analyzed the code in 1978, I was under the impression it was inefficient; NIBL in contrast uses inline addressing, such as "xppc p3; .dbyte callee;...arguments", but SC/MP does not have the most efficient instruction set. > Lying on top of my still-working Elektor SC/MP system, I have the original, > 40 page, green Elbug user manual "ELBUG Monitor-Software fuer den > Elektor-SC/MP-Mikrokomputer" written by Elbug author Dr. H. (Hans) Huschitt, > dated November 1977. This has a description of Elbug, the commented source > code, and some flowcharts - all in German. > > It's my intention to scan and publish this manual, once my > Elektor-SC/MP-Elbug emulator wil be ready - but probably that will not be > before next year. However, if it would make some Classiccmp people happy, I > could scan this Elbug manual next week and send it by email. If anyone is > interested, please let me know. > Interested :-) Regards Holger From bqt at softjar.se Fri Aug 7 15:54:16 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:54:16 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7C9478.9080309@softjar.se> Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > The most important (and difficult for me) part is to design a PCB with an FPGA that plugs into the > PCI bus. The other ugly part is the cabling from there to the Unibus/Qbus. The rest is programmable. > > Those are the features to expect in an early version: > > * Unibus mapping to PC's memory > * Interrupt forwarding to PCI INTA-INTD > * Interrupt vector interrogation mechanism > > Later then: > > * Unibus arbitration > * Unibus memory > * QBus Reading your other messages... Without Unibus memory you'd be restricted to only interrupt-driven single byte transfer devices, since you have no solution to manage DMA devices on the Unibus. For DMA, you need either to allow the Unibus to get access to the PCs memory (that would imply a Unibus map, which by the way wasn't just used by a VAX. Large Unibus PDP-11 systems also have a Unibus map). A Unibus map is nothing magical by the way. It's just a way to remap the 18-bit Unibus address of a DMA transfer into a larger address of the host. It's usually a simple addition of the Unibus address with a large constant that can be written by the host (usually you have several separate map registers, so that multiple DMA transfers can proceed in parallell. I don't know what you mean by "Unibus mapping to PC's memory". Would that be a Unibus map, or are we just talking about a way for the PC to read data from arbitrary addresses on the Unibus? Interrupt stuff is usually a bit more complicated than what you seem to envision above. You have the interrupt request line, the interrupt grants, which is followed by the vector at the interrupt acknowledge, and then you have the interrupt dismiss stuff, which cause the device to remove the interrupt request, and allow other devices at the same priority, but farther from the bus arbiter to get their interrupt through. And what about Unibus memory? There is nothing special about Unibus memory. It behaves the same way as any other thing on the Unibus, with the additional "restriction" that memory can never be bus master. But that just makes it easier. If you implement enough to communicate with a device on the Unibus, then you will have done enough to talk with memory as well. > Software would initially consist of a "do nothing"-driver for Linux. It would simply find the card > and then export the base address into the kernel name space. Other drivers then could use that. > Probably also some code for interrupt handling. > I am a bit reluctant to register the bridge as a /proc/bus/unibus thing. That would probably only > work without much use, as there are no PnP things on the Unibus. Why do you even bother with questions about how a driver would present the data in a specific OS? That is definitely software that you can change any number of times. You need to figure out how to construct the hardware so that it will work, and after that you can play with software as much as you want to without problem. Oh, and not everything is software. There are some things that are very demanding for precise timing considerations. Software is usually not a good solution for those cases... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at softjar.se Fri Aug 7 15:59:00 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:59:00 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7C9594.3030707@softjar.se> Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > I am a bit reluctant to register the bridge as a /proc/bus/unibus thing. That would probably only > work without much use, as there are no PnP things on the Unibus. Oh, yeah. "PnP" for Unibus/Qbus? Yes there are. I think "PnP" for the PC is mostly bollocks. Sounds good, but not that impressive in reality anyway. Anyway, yes. If you start reading through the specs for Unibus address assignments, you'll find that there are rules to it, and if you follow those rules, you can autodetect all devices on the Unibus. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 14:54:26 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Linux netbooks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201325.60998.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I bought the Asus Eee 900a w/Linux around 5 months ago. DO NOT expect this to become a primary means of doing anything, even spending a couple of hours on the net. I payed 200$ new, at Best Buy. The other day I had enough and bought a real Toshiba laptop for 300$. These things seem "nifty", but they do not, IMHO, supplant a real laptop. As a secondary when_all_else_fails backup, I suppose they're ok. Don't expect the trackpad or recalcitrant mouse buttons to last much longer then 3 or 4 months. It's a bit flakey besides, but the actual electronics seem rugged enough. Laptops have become so dirt cheap, I can't see paying much more then 100$ for one of these, and that is new. To it's credit, you open the box (just after buying it) and you're right on the net. I have no love for Windoze, and plan to promptly expunge it from the new Toshiba I bought. I did learn a few Chinese phrases though with this thing. I'll also point out that the "paint" program that comes bundled w/this version of Xandros or whatever it is has 1/2 the utility of the program that comes w/XP. There are later distros that can be upgraded to ("easy peasy" is one), but I haven't gotten to that far yet. The benefit of a SSDD is that you don't have to worry about dropping it (no i don't mean from atop the eiffel tower), which I've done twice. No problemo. From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 15:06:47 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20090805213106.04968e98@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: <322399.18479.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> his books were good. Even the more recent ones. Don't knock the whole man. And Norton Utilities did a reasonably good job of ferreting out windows problems. Now now. The youngins need to learn good stuff somehow. Lots of folk can appreciate his books at least (even if he didn't write them). --- On Wed, 8/5/09, John Foust wrote: > Oh, I still curse the name Norton on a weekly basis. > > - John > > From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 15:19:24 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problems with IBM 5150 Power In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550907281112y5dc1b10bgf275512d0baa3ebb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27539.82833.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I imagine this was already answered, but the answer is yes. In fact some would recommend testing a p/s before powering up an older system to see if it delivers the required voltages w/a dummy load (i.e resistance). --- On Tue, 7/28/09, Joe Giliberti wrote: > From: Joe Giliberti > Subject: Re: Problems with IBM 5150 Power > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 2:12 PM > It is very likely not a PSU fault. I > wasn't sure on this, but could the PSU > behave differently with and without load?? > > Joe > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:32 AM, Tony Duell > wrote: > > > > > > > I recently acquired a 5150. It is a 16-64k with > two drives and color. I > > have > > > not been able to boot it up yet. I cleaned the > inside, and made sure > > > everything was well connected. When I flick the > power on, the CPU fan > > goes, > > > and nothing else. There is power coming out of > the motherboard and drive > > > connectors, but there is nothing at the ISA slot. > No beeps or anything. I > > > > Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but surely if > you're getting power at > > the power output connectors of the PSU, the fault is > not in the PSU. > > > > -tony > > > From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 17:19:22 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:19:22 -0700 Subject: Results from a pickup today... Message-ID: I just got back from picking up some nice equipment from a friend of mine... I'm hoping to get some pointers to software and more information. I don't have all the details in front of me, but here's a summary: 1) DECmate III (with display) 2) Altos 586 (main box only with terminal connector cable) 3) DEC Pro/350 (I think) 4) MicroVAX II (no drives) 5) DG MV/4000 DC (which I'm very excited about, being a DG lover) I know a bit about VAXen, but haven't opened this box to see what's inside. The DG supposedly works, but I haven't tried it yet. As for the other boxes, they *should* work, but I don't know much about their working state yet (or what they have inside). More to follow as I dig deeper... Mark From rivie at ridgenet.net Sat Aug 8 18:24:06 2009 From: rivie at ridgenet.net (Roger Ivie) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7C9478.9080309@softjar.se> References: <4A7C9478.9080309@softjar.se> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote: > Interrupt stuff is usually a bit more complicated than what you seem to > envision above. You have the interrupt request line, the interrupt grants, > which is followed by the vector at the interrupt acknowledge, and then you > have the interrupt dismiss stuff, which cause the device to remove the > interrupt request, and allow other devices at the same priority, but farther > from the bus arbiter to get their interrupt through. Interrupts are actually a bit odd on the UNIBUS, where interrupt requests are really just prioritized DMA requests. A UNIBUS device asserts a bus request and gets a bus grant, at which point it may do *any* kind of bus traffic. Providing a vector to the computer is just a specialized kind of DMA write; one with an implied address, as it were. It's been a few years, time kills brain cells, yadda yadda yadda, but I did actually design a UNIBUS processor board once upon a time. With a UNIBUS map. The PDP-11 UNIBUS map is not as simple as the one used on the VAX. -- roger ivie rivie at ridgenet.net From evan at snarc.net Sat Aug 8 18:34:28 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:34:28 -0400 Subject: VCF East 6.0 flyer Message-ID: <4A7E0B84.1030805@snarc.net> Cctalkers: please help us advertise the VCF East 6.0 by either printing and distributing our flyer, or posting the flyer link wherever you can: http://www.snarc.net/vcfe6.pdf .... the hobby and we @ VCF thank you!!! - Evan, Sellam & crew From ics65 at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 8 19:41:28 2009 From: ics65 at sbcglobal.net (George Wiegand) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:41:28 -0500 Subject: DG MP200 / DG6095 info sought References: <4A7D3752.3090902@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <002001ca188a$223802d0$35d2da45@efficien2csrlx> Bruce Ray is an expert with DG Nova & Eclipse Documentation & Software Archives. Simulogics, www.simulogics.com Bruce Ray bkr at simulogics.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jos Dreesen" To: Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:29 AM Subject: DG MP200 / DG6095 info sought > The one piece in my collection that is lacking documentation is my Data > General micronova MP/200. It has a 2901 based CPU, 16k or 64k dram > memory,( 32x DG1100 DRAMS) and loads of ECO wires. > > > Furthermore it has a DG6095-1 diskdrive. One fixed, one cartridge platter. > Is this a 5MB platter ( as previously indicated on this list ) or a 10 MB > platter (as indicated on a sticker on the device itself ). > > So : > - any schematics out there ? > - any cartridges avaliable ( Europe...) > - from the farris website i deduced that Diablo 44 cartridges would fit . > Correct? > - Formatting software available should I find some fitting cartridges ? > > > Jos > > > From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Aug 8 19:29:56 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:29:56 -0700 Subject: [rescue] Tapes, Drives, Libraries, and Arrays Need to Go (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7E1884.1080703@bitsavers.org> David Griffith wrote: > This pile o' tapes, the cabinet in which they hang so uselessly Do you know what is ON the tapes? From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:58:14 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:58:14 -0400 Subject: Results from a pickup today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/8/09, Mark Davidson wrote: > I just got back from picking up some nice equipment from a friend of > mine... I'm hoping to get some pointers to software and more > information... > > 1) DECmate III (with display) > 3) DEC Pro/350 (I think) > 4) MicroVAX II (no drives) > > As for the other boxes, they *should* work, but I don't know much > about their working state yet (or what they have inside). Seeing as you have those particular machines, you might want to look into finding a Teac FD55GFR 5.25" floppy drive and attaching it to an Intel box old enough to handle it. There are a number of RX50 disk images floating around, with PO/S for the Pro/350 and various items for the DECmate at least. Besides PO/S (a degenerate menu-driven variant of RSX-11), you _can_ run RT-11 on the Pro/350, but licensing could be a problem, and there's 2.9BSD as another option, but you probably would have a better experience sticking with DEC OSes on that box. In case you don't already know, it's an F-11-based PDP-11, the same CPU chip as the PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/24, but with a completely wacky peripheral bus. The DECmate III is much like a DECmate II with fewer expansion options (smaller case, etc). ISTR the III was sold as floppy-only, but I'm not sure if there was a way to install an RD31 or not in there. It has either an Intersil or Harris IM6120 or H6120 12-bit CPU chip and a full 32Kwords of RAM, and can run either WPS-8 or OS/278. It can't run OS/8 because of very slight differences in how console I/O works. Both machines will work with a VR201 monitor and an LK201 keyboard. The Pro350 might work with a VR241 color monitor, but I don't remember if you need a different video card or a graphics addon or just a VR241 and cable. All the Pro350s I've seen were mono, but I _think_ color was possible. These were older machines, repackaged for the Nth time, with fewer expansion options than their predecessors, but in their hearts beat a real PDP-11 or real PDP-8 under all the 80s beige plastic. -ethan From evan at snarc.net Sun Aug 9 01:20:42 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:20:42 -0400 Subject: ASR-33 original price? Message-ID: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> Does anyone know the (approximate) original prices for the ASR-33 and KSR-33? From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 02:12:03 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 00:12:03 -0700 Subject: IBM 1620 In-Reply-To: <4A7E1884.1080703@bitsavers.org> References: <4A7E1884.1080703@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: Hi Al I was digging though my basement doing the 15 year cleanup. I found a book, "Programming the IBM 1620", second edition. I checked on the web and see that the CHM already has a couple copies. Still, it was a fun find. I still have to compile a list of the Intel manuals and ap notes I have. I suspect that most are common books but you never know. I found manuals for such strange things as 8089s and 8022s. On the Canon Cat, I love the color versions. It is great. I'd still like to see some of the smaller application manuals. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 From huw.davies at mail.vsm.com.au Sat Aug 8 21:47:22 2009 From: huw.davies at mail.vsm.com.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:47:22 +1000 Subject: Results from a pickup today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 09/08/2009, at 10:58 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The DECmate III is much like a DECmate II with fewer expansion options > (smaller case, etc). ISTR the III was sold as floppy-only, but I'm > not sure if there was a way to install an RD31 or not in there. It > has either an Intersil or Harris IM6120 or H6120 12-bit CPU chip and a > full 32Kwords of RAM, and can run either WPS-8 or OS/278. It can't > run OS/8 because of very slight differences in how console I/O works. DECmate III is floppy only, DECmate III+ has the RD31. I have both but don't use them as often as I should (simh is just a little more portable :-) ) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From bruce at Wild-Hare.com Sat Aug 8 23:33:10 2009 From: bruce at Wild-Hare.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:33:10 -0600 Subject: DG MP200 / DG6095 info sought References: <4A7D3752.3090902@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <025001ca18aa$82c9ca50$f9b3d146@linksys> G'day Jos - Congratulations on the MP/200 acquisition - it was a very unique design that emulated the microNova and was the last product in the microNova series (all previous DG designs used versions of the DG proprietary microNova chipset). The 6095 is a 5MB fixed/5 MB removable disk drive that was used with microNova products (and microEclipse products), and corresponds to the 6045 disks for the "standard" Nova and Eclipse systems. (DG used different peripherals for its "micro" product line since the microNova I/O bus is different than the "regular" Nova and Eclipse I/O bus. The disk pack sector interleave value(s) may be different between the "standard" Nova/Eclipse disk models and the microNova models.) I believe the Diablo 44 disk packs were compatible but would have to verify this. Please contact me off-list at your convenience; I will research schematics and other documentation. for you... Bruce bkr at WildHareComputers.com Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jos Dreesen" To: Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 02:29 AM Subject: DG MP200 / DG6095 info sought > The one piece in my collection that is lacking documentation is my Data > General micronova MP/200. It has a 2901 based CPU, 16k or 64k dram > memory,( 32x DG1100 DRAMS) and loads of ECO wires. > > > Furthermore it has a DG6095-1 diskdrive. One fixed, one cartridge platter. > Is this a 5MB platter ( as previously indicated on this list ) or a 10 MB > platter (as indicated on a sticker on the device itself ). > > So : > - any schematics out there ? > - any cartridges avaliable ( Europe...) > - from the farris website i deduced that Diablo 44 cartridges would fit . > Correct? > - Formatting software available should I find some fitting cartridges ? > > > Jos > > > From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Sun Aug 9 03:35:38 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:35:38 -0700 Subject: List admin problems? References: <495351.36170.qm@web82601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A71973A.3010606@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <002301ca18cc$5f71f7e0$0201a8c0@hal9000> I can't get back on with my new Email either. Been trying since May 23rd !!!!! Best regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:51 AM Subject: Re: List admin problems? > William Maddox wrote: > > Am I the only person who has had trouble subscribing to the list? > > I've attempted a couple of times over the last couple of weeks > > to subscribe another email address with no success. I don't know > > if the moderators are just backed up, or if the requests are getting > > black-holed. > > > You're not the only one. Joe Rigdon, an old timer here has tried for > months to get back on the list.... > - Mike From oldcurmudgeon at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 03:56:30 2009 From: oldcurmudgeon at gmail.com (Frank) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 03:56:30 -0500 Subject: ASR-33 original price? In-Reply-To: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> References: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> Message-ID: <4A7E8F3E.3030001@gmail.com> Evan Koblentz wrote: > Does anyone know the (approximate) original prices for the ASR-33 and > KSR-33? The ASR-33 I bought from MITS in 1975 with my Altair 8800 was $1500 according to the invoice. Frank From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Aug 9 06:58:06 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 05:58:06 -0600 Subject: ASR-33 original price? In-Reply-To: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> References: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> Message-ID: <4A7EB9CE.9030406@jetnet.ab.ca> Evan Koblentz wrote: > Does anyone know the (approximate) original prices for the ASR-33 and > KSR-33? > What year are we talking about? I have no idea but $1200 feels right to me. Ben. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Aug 9 11:35:11 2009 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:35:11 -0700 Subject: ASR-33 original price? In-Reply-To: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> References: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> Message-ID: <200908090935.12136.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Saturday 08 August 2009, Evan Koblentz wrote: > Does anyone know the (approximate) original prices for the ASR-33 and > KSR-33? DEC, in their August 1967 Price List, has: Model 33 RO $825 Model 33 KSR $900 Model 33 ASR $1,200 Model 33 ASR (Sprocket Feed) $1500 Model 35 KSR $2,500 Model 35 ASR $4,000 Regards. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ken at seefried.com Sun Aug 9 13:29:52 2009 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Results from a pickup today... Message-ID: <20090809182952.D8D3E3800072A@portal.seefried.com> You can also run Venix 2.x on a Pro/350, and I think there are images floating around. It's System III based with real-time extentions. Not a bad system for the time. Interesting contrast to 2BSD. KJ From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 14:14:13 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:14:13 -0400 Subject: Results from a pickup today... In-Reply-To: <20090809182952.D8D3E3800072A@portal.seefried.com> References: <20090809182952.D8D3E3800072A@portal.seefried.com> Message-ID: On 8/9/09, Ken Seefried wrote: > You can also run Venix 2.x on a Pro/350, and I think there are images > floating around. Ah, yes, Venix, and I should have remembered - one of my Pro/350s came with that on it (I still haven't taken the time to break in to it, and the former owner forgot the root password). > It's System III based with real-time extentions. Not > a bad system for the time. Interesting contrast to 2BSD. Back then, it was almost worlds away - simple stuff was identical, but I remember going through some contortions 25 years ago to port some SysIII code to BSD. -ethan From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 14:14:33 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:14:33 -0700 Subject: Results from a pickup today... In-Reply-To: <20090809182952.D8D3E3800072A@portal.seefried.com> References: <20090809182952.D8D3E3800072A@portal.seefried.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Ken Seefried wrote: > You can also run Venix 2.x on a Pro/350, and I think there are images > floating around. ?It's System III based with real-time extentions. ?Not > a bad system for the time. ?Interesting contrast to 2BSD. > > KJ Thanks for all the info. If I have time today, I'll go out in the garage and do a better inventory of what I picked up (didn't have time for that yesterday). I'll also take pictures of what I picked and up and post them. Venix would be awesome to try out... I had used their 386 variant in days long past. Mark From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 9 15:35:39 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:35:39 -0700 Subject: IBM 1620 In-Reply-To: References: , <4A7E1884.1080703@bitsavers.org>, Message-ID: <4A7F331B.8064.B2FDD1B@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Aug 2009 at 0:12, dwight elvey wrote: > I was digging though my basement doing the 15 year cleanup. > I found a book, "Programming the IBM 1620", second edition. > I checked on the web and see that the CHM already has a > couple copies. Just curious, Dwight--which "Programming the IBM 1620" book do you have? There was the "hands on" Weiss book and another by Clarence Germain (Prentice Hall). Both had virtually the same title. I mention this because I thought I remembered that title, but the cover art didn't match my recollection. A little more digging and it seems I must have had the Germain book. --Chuck From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Aug 9 15:51:33 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:51:33 -0600 Subject: IBM 1620 In-Reply-To: <4A7F331B.8064.B2FDD1B@cclist.sydex.com> References: , <4A7E1884.1080703@bitsavers.org>, <4A7F331B.8064.B2FDD1B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A7F36D5.5030803@jetnet.ab.ca> Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 9 Aug 2009 at 0:12, dwight elvey wrote: > >> I was digging though my basement doing the 15 year cleanup. >> I found a book, "Programming the IBM 1620", second edition. >> I checked on the web and see that the CHM already has a >> couple copies. > > Just curious, Dwight--which "Programming the IBM 1620" book do you > have? There was the "hands on" Weiss book and another by Clarence > Germain (Prentice Hall). Both had virtually the same title. > > I mention this because I thought I remembered that title, but the > cover art didn't match my recollection. A little more digging and it > seems I must have had the Germain book. > > --Chuck > I have 'Basic Programing Concepts and the IBM 1620 computer' by Leeson/Dimitry. Ben. PS If anybody is doing something with 1620 hardware, you can have the dog eared book. From rivie at ridgenet.net Sun Aug 9 20:06:21 2009 From: rivie at ridgenet.net (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7F4E6A.4050101@softjar.se> References: <4A7F4E6A.4050101@softjar.se> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote: > Roger Ivie wrote: > Second, the vector transfer isn't a normal bus transfer in the sense of the > device addressing the CPU and transferring a word. Page 2-13 of the UNIBUS spec (1979): "INTR is a bus signal asserted by an interrupting device *after it becomes bus master* to inform the interrupt fielding processor that an interrupt is to be performed and that the interrupt vector is present on the D lines." Technically, you don't even have an interrupt until the device hands you the vector. Which it does as a bus master. > The CPU cannot be a slave, > unless my memory fails me. Page 2-14: "INTR is negated upon receipt of the assertion of SSYN from the interrupt fielding processor." > It's been way many years since I looked at the unibus map of the VAX UBA, but > I can't for my life imagine that it could be any simpler than the Unibus map > of the PDP-11. The PDP-11 can map a UNIBUS page to any *word boundary* in the memory space. That means there are adders in there somewhere. The VAX scatter/gather map just replaces bits 9 and up with the contents of the map entry. -- roger ivie rivie at ridgenet.net From evan at snarc.net Sun Aug 9 20:23:40 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:23:40 -0400 Subject: Commodore 1526 ribbons? Message-ID: <4A7F769C.6070401@snarc.net> Can anyone recommend a source for new Commodore 1526 ribbons? Only place I found online is http://www.ocla.com/makepagebak8.php?SUBCAT2B=COMMODORERIBBONS .... hoping that someone here can vouch for that business, or (better yet) direct me toward a lower price. From halarewich at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 20:57:03 2009 From: halarewich at gmail.com (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:57:03 -0700 Subject: Commodore 1526 ribbons? In-Reply-To: <4A7F769C.6070401@snarc.net> References: <4A7F769C.6070401@snarc.net> Message-ID: <6d6501090908091857m57c97e57q463756f40001b7ae@mail.gmail.com> here is a list of ribbons that will work on a 1526 ribbon 613160550 Commodore 1526, 4023, MPS-802 ribbon Atari 801, 804 ribbon Blue Chip M120-10, M150-10 ribbon Facit B1100, B1200 ribbon F698BKMS Fullmark ribbon Legend 800, 808, 880, 1080, 1380 ribbon 609474-1 Mannesmann-Tally F80, MT80, MT81, SP80 ribbon Mitsui CP80, MP80 ribbon B197 Nu-kote ribbon Okidata 1600 ribbon Sears SR1000 ribbon Shinwa CPA80, CPB80, VP-130 plus, VP-130E ribbon Silver Reed 100-80, 130-80 On 8/9/09, Evan Koblentz wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a source for new Commodore 1526 ribbons? > > Only place I found online is > http://www.ocla.com/makepagebak8.php?SUBCAT2B=COMMODORERIBBONS .... hoping > that someone here can vouch for that business, or (better yet) direct me > toward a lower price. > From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 22:38:59 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:38:59 -0700 Subject: IBM 1620 In-Reply-To: <4A7F331B.8064.B2FDD1B@cclist.sydex.com> References: , <4A7E1884.1080703@bitsavers.org>, <4A7F331B.8064.B2FDD1B@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > From: cclist at sydex.com > > On 9 Aug 2009 at 0:12, dwight elvey wrote: > >> I was digging though my basement doing the 15 year cleanup. >> I found a book, "Programming the IBM 1620", second edition. >> I checked on the web and see that the CHM already has a >> couple copies. > > Just curious, Dwight--which "Programming the IBM 1620" book do you > have? There was the "hands on" Weiss book and another by Clarence > Germain (Prentice Hall). Both had virtually the same title. > > I mention this because I thought I remembered that title, but the > cover art didn't match my recollection. A little more digging and it > seems I must have had the Germain book. > > --Chuck > Hi Chuck It is the one by Germain. Not as much meat as the stuff on Al's bitsavers. Still a fun find. I also found some interesting stuff on the 2900 bitslice and a book on the Fairchild F8. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 14:57:58 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IBM 1620 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <757758.90609.qm@web65516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> what color versions??? What in tarnation! Are you saying there was a color Cat? --- On Sun, 8/9/09, dwight elvey wrote: > Hi Al > I was digging though my basement doing the 15 year > cleanup. > I found a book, "Programming the IBM 1620", second > edition. > I checked on the web and see that the CHM already has a > couple copies. > Still, it was a fun find. > I still have to compile a list of the Intel manuals and > ap notes I have. I suspect that most are common books but > you never know. I found manuals for such strange things > as 8089s and 8022s. > On the Canon Cat, I love the color versions. It is > great. I'd still like to see some of the smaller > application > manuals. > Dwight > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express your personality in color! Preview and select > themes for Hotmail?. > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 From bqt at softjar.se Sun Aug 9 17:32:10 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:10 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7F4E6A.4050101@softjar.se> Roger Ivie wrote: > On Fri, 7 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> > Interrupt stuff is usually a bit more complicated than what you seem to >> > envision above. You have the interrupt request line, the interrupt grants, >> > which is followed by the vector at the interrupt acknowledge, and then you >> > have the interrupt dismiss stuff, which cause the device to remove the >> > interrupt request, and allow other devices at the same priority, but farther >> > from the bus arbiter to get their interrupt through. > > Interrupts are actually a bit odd on the UNIBUS, where interrupt > requests are really just prioritized DMA requests. A UNIBUS device > asserts a bus request and gets a bus grant, at which point it may do > *any* kind of bus traffic. Providing a vector to the computer is just a > specialized kind of DMA write; one with an implied address, as it were. Hmm. Now I'm just writing from memory, which sometimes is a really big mistake, but I don't think that is correct. First of all, interrupt bus requests are only granted at instruction fetch time, while DMA bus requests can be granted at any stage of the CPU execution cycle. Second, the vector transfer isn't a normal bus transfer in the sense of the device addressing the CPU and transferring a word. The CPU cannot be a slave, unless my memory fails me. However, at the interrupt acknowledge cycle, the device is expected to put out the vector, and the CPU will read the data in from the bus and gate it into temporary storage, followed by pushing the PSW and PC, and reading a new PSW and PC from the address given by the vector. This is a rather complex behaviour, and not something you can manage to trick the CPU into doing under any other circumstances. As for asserting the interrupt request, and getting a bus grant in return, that is pretty much how all CPUs work. The big difference is only in what they call the signal, and how the device is expected to behave once the grant comes in. Many CPUs have just a single interrupt request line, and a single interrupt acknowledge line. The fact that the Unibus defines four is nice, though. :-) > It's been a few years, time kills brain cells, yadda yadda yadda, but I > did actually design a UNIBUS processor board once upon a time. With a > UNIBUS map. The PDP-11 UNIBUS map is not as simple as the one used on the > VAX. It's been way many years since I looked at the unibus map of the VAX UBA, but I can't for my life imagine that it could be any simpler than the Unibus map of the PDP-11. But maybe that's just me. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 10 01:12:43 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:12:43 -0700 Subject: IBM 1620 In-Reply-To: References: , <4A7F331B.8064.B2FDD1B@cclist.sydex.com>, Message-ID: <4A7FBA5B.19377.D401896@cclist.sydex.com> On 9 Aug 2009 at 20:38, dwight elvey wrote: > It is the one by Germain. Not as much meat as the stuff > on Al's bitsavers. Still a fun find. It's interesting that there were a number of books written for 1620 programming, probably because there were quite a number of them installed in schools. I still have fond memories of that machine--and still can remember a fair number of the opcodes (that system was very friendly toward programming in machine language--you could enter code right on the console typewriter) IBM even produced coding forms for the "1620 Absolute Coding System"--the other side of the form, ISTR, was for SPS. You had to be careful not to overwrite the addition tables in memory or things would quickly get very strange. --Chuck From mike at brickfieldspark.org Mon Aug 10 03:18:52 2009 From: mike at brickfieldspark.org (Mike Hatch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:18:52 +0100 Subject: [personal] ASR-33 original price? References: <4A7E6ABA.7040300@snarc.net> Message-ID: <005101ca1993$32996100$961ca8c0@mss.local> Hi, The 1964 options list for the PDP-7 (http://www.soemtron.org/pdp7optionslist.html) gives the KSR33 as $900 and the ASR33 as $1200. Mike Best regards, Mike Hatch Web - www.soemtron.org PDP-7 - www.soemtron.org/pdp7.html Email - mike at soemtron.org Looking for a PDP-7 (some hope!) and an ASR33 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Koblentz" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: [personal] ASR-33 original price? > Does anyone know the (approximate) original prices for the ASR-33 and > KSR-33? > > > From ken at seefried.com Mon Aug 10 12:39:04 2009 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Results from a pickup today... Message-ID: <20090810173904.ABE913800072A@portal.seefried.com> > Venix would be awesome to try out... I had used > their 386 variant in days long past. Fair warning...the Pro/350 version of Venix is about as much like the i386 version as 2BSD is like 4BSD. KJ From mdavidson1963 at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:05:48 2009 From: mdavidson1963 at gmail.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:05:48 -0700 Subject: Results from a pickup today... In-Reply-To: <20090810173904.ABE913800072A@portal.seefried.com> References: <20090810173904.ABE913800072A@portal.seefried.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Ken Seefried wrote: > >> Venix would be awesome to try out... I had used >> their 386 variant in days long past. > > Fair warning...the Pro/350 version of Venix is about as much like the > i386 version as 2BSD is like 4BSD. Warning accepted. :) I'd still love to try it... nothing more fun than a new experience. Mark From wdonzelli at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:13:32 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:13:32 -0400 Subject: VT420s, 80 meg packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Also, I have access to a large number of 80 meg disk packs for the CDC > SMD drives. I do not really need them (I am more a 300 meg guy), but > is there interest in these? It is likely I will be picking up the packs tomorrow. I am thinking about asking $25 per pack, plus shipping, maybe with quantity discounts available. So, no, I am not giving these away. These are all known good CLEANED packs - the owner used these as his stock for his 3rd party maintenance business. They have been stored in official Wrightline pack cabinets. This is contrasted by the dubious quality of packs seen on Ebay. Crashed? Stored in a barn? Who knows? There are also a few 300 meg CDC packs, plus some hawks, and maybe a few alignment packs. NOS heads and filters for the 80 and 300 meg SMDs as well. Shipping from 10512. Possible delivery options between here and Chicago. Please reply off list. -- Will From wdonzelli at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:15:10 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:15:10 -0400 Subject: VT420s, 80 meg packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I am thinking about asking $25 per pack, plus shipping, maybe with > quantity discounts available. I should add that I could trade as well - IBM packs (1316, 3336, etc.) or other interesting mainframe debris. -- Will From alanp at snowmoose.com Mon Aug 10 14:10:58 2009 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:10:58 -0700 Subject: Classic computer classifieds anywhere? Message-ID: <4A8070C2.10605@snowmoose.com> As previously noted, I have been thinning my collection. Rather than filling this list with updates, are there classic computer classifieds where I can just post a list of stuff that is available and then add and subtract items from the ad as appropriate? alan From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 10 14:47:24 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:47:24 -0700 Subject: Classic computer classifieds anywhere? In-Reply-To: <4A8070C2.10605@snowmoose.com> References: <4A8070C2.10605@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: <4A80794C.902.102A2B08@cclist.sydex.com> On 10 Aug 2009 at 12:10, Alan Perry wrote: > > As previously noted, I have been thinning my collection. Rather than > filling this list with updates, are there classic computer classifieds > where I can just post a list of stuff that is available and then add > and subtract items from the ad as appropriate? There's the Vintage Computer Marketplace and Forum. Generally, if you post a listing in the Marketplace, it's a good idea to let folks know about it in the forum. Many people with things to give away, simply post in the forum: http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?f=7 --Chuck From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Aug 10 15:44:26 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:26 -0700 Subject: VT420s, 80 meg packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8086AA.8050102@bitsavers.org> William Donzelli wrote: > NOS heads and filters for the 80 and 300 meg SMDs > as well. > If someone intends on keeping RM03's or RM05's running, you should grab these. From trixter at oldskool.org Mon Aug 10 20:00:05 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:00:05 -0500 Subject: DENCON Message-ID: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Aug 10 20:06:08 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:06:08 -0400 Subject: DENCON In-Reply-To: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <4A80C400.40700@atarimuseum.com> You just made my night - I think I'm making that first image my new background on my desktop!!! Jim Leonard wrote: > A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Mon Aug 10 20:20:34 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:20:34 -0700 Subject: DENCON References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <4A80C762.C2AFAED2@cs.ubc.ca> Jim Leonard wrote: > > A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 Wow. That's a rather, umm, unique combination of machinery and carpet, but somehow they work together. Sort of. From wdonzelli at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 20:32:41 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:32:41 -0400 Subject: DENCON In-Reply-To: <4A80C762.C2AFAED2@cs.ubc.ca> References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> <4A80C762.C2AFAED2@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: > Wow. That's a rather, umm, unique combination of machinery and carpet, but > somehow they work together. Sort of. What do you expect? A Mondrian? -- Will From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 20:54:30 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:54:30 -0400 Subject: DENCON In-Reply-To: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> Message-ID: On 8/10/09, Jim Leonard wrote: > A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 Wow. Nice setup. I could probably only field about 50% of that rig. I'm especially envious of that old Planetfall package. I have the later boxed folio for the C-64 and various "Lost Collections", but none of their PDP-11 selections. That would have been awsome to "stumble into" at a show - I don't know that I can still emit PDP-11 instructions in raw octal from memory, but I'd do OK with a pocket guide and a front-panel. So I wonder what OSes they brought to show off. With that kind of gear, you pretty much have your pick. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 21:02:23 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:02:23 -0400 Subject: DENCON In-Reply-To: <4A80C762.C2AFAED2@cs.ubc.ca> References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> <4A80C762.C2AFAED2@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: On 8/10/09, Brent Hilpert wrote: > Jim Leonard wrote: >> >> A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 > > Wow. That's a rather, umm, unique combination of machinery and carpet, but > somehow they work together. Sort of. I was thinking more that the panoply of machinery was straight out of one of DECs handbooks, but on garishly "modern" (by comparison) carpet. I couldn't tell from the photos - is that an HSC50 on the far right, or if not, what? -ethan From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Aug 10 21:11:32 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:11:32 -0300 Subject: DENCON References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <0f5d01ca1a2a$0be499c0$875f19bb@desktaba> >> A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 What a hell of beautiful photos! ;oO From drb at msu.edu Mon Aug 10 21:22:00 2009 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:22:00 -0400 Subject: DENCON In-Reply-To: (Your message of Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:02:23 EDT.) References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> <4A80C762.C2AFAED2@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <200908110222.n7B2M093025653@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > I was thinking more that the panoply of machinery was straight out of > one of DECs handbooks, but on garishly "modern" (by comparison) carpet. > I couldn't tell from the photos - is that an HSC50 on the far right, or > if not, what? There's a 750 over there. De From hachti at hachti.de Mon Aug 10 21:58:38 2009 From: hachti at hachti.de (Philipp Hachtmann) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:58:38 +0200 Subject: Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch In-Reply-To: <20090803152748.120231C31@bellona.cnc.net> References: <20090803152748.120231C31@bellona.cnc.net> Message-ID: <4A80DE5E.6060805@hachti.de> >> I'm hoping it goes for a song, as I'm the only bidder. :) Insane price! Without chad box! **LOL** From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Aug 10 22:31:15 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:31:15 -0400 Subject: Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch In-Reply-To: <4A80DE5E.6060805@hachti.de> References: <20090803152748.120231C31@bellona.cnc.net> <4A80DE5E.6060805@hachti.de> Message-ID: <08D2A78A-D5FD-40EF-B15A-E634DA7F2532@neurotica.com> On Aug 10, 2009, at 10:58 PM, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: >>> I'm hoping it goes for a song, as I'm the only bidder. :) > Insane price! Without chad box! **LOL** Yeah, with so many of them out there. Not. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From bqt at softjar.se Mon Aug 10 16:09:49 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:09:49 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A808C9D.4090103@softjar.se> Roger Ivie wrote: > On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> Roger Ivie wrote: >> Second, the vector transfer isn't a normal bus transfer in the sense of the >> device addressing the CPU and transferring a word. > > Page 2-13 of the UNIBUS spec (1979): "INTR is a bus signal asserted by > an interrupting device *after it becomes bus master* to inform the > interrupt fielding processor that an interrupt is to be performed and > that the interrupt vector is present on the D lines." > > Technically, you don't even have an interrupt until the device hands you > the vector. Which it does as a bus master. Ah. Yes, I see now (or remember). INTR is a bus transaction, with the interrupt fielding processor as the implicit slave. >> The CPU cannot be a slave, >> unless my memory fails me. > > Page 2-14: "INTR is negated upon receipt of the assertion of SSYN from > the interrupt fielding processor." I was just remembering the DATI/DATIP/DATO/DATOB transactions, which can't address the CPU. I didn't remember that the vector transfer had it's own operation on the bus. Nice design really. Yes, once your bus request is granted, you can do anything on the bus. >> It's been way many years since I looked at the unibus map of the VAX UBA, but >> I can't for my life imagine that it could be any simpler than the Unibus map >> of the PDP-11. > > The PDP-11 can map a UNIBUS page to any *word boundary* in the memory > space. That means there are adders in there somewhere. The VAX > scatter/gather map just replaces bits 9 and up with the contents of the > map entry. Having an adder, or an or with a mask, isn't much different, or conceptually any more complex in my eye. But maybe that is just me. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Aug 10 21:20:03 2009 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:20:03 -0400 Subject: DENCON Message-ID: <0KO600BHLX4N0WS3@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> > >Subject: Re: DENCON > From: Ethan Dicks > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:02:23 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >On 8/10/09, Brent Hilpert wrote: >> Jim Leonard wrote: >>> >>> A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 >> >> Wow. That's a rather, umm, unique combination of machinery and carpet, but >> somehow they work together. Sort of. > >I was thinking more that the panoply of machinery was straight out of >one of DECs handbooks, but on garishly "modern" (by comparison) >carpet. > >I couldn't tell from the photos - is that an HSC50 on the far right, >or if not, what? > >-ethan I'd offer that it looks like a VAX/750 and two disk/tape racks. There appear to be several systems there with the -11 being the featured one. Allison From altcompco at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 23:51:41 2009 From: altcompco at gmail.com (kal) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:51:41 -0400 Subject: Reading data from a CDC Hawk Drive Message-ID: I know that this reply is quite dated, but if you are still trying to use a hawk drive you might be interested in knowing that a 3rd party company used to manufacture an i/o board to it that allowed it to work with a TRS-80. fyi -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From pontus at Update.UU.SE Tue Aug 11 02:03:20 2009 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:03:20 +0200 Subject: DENCON In-Reply-To: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> References: <4A80C295.8030508@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <20090811070320.GA12916@Update.UU.SE> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 08:00:05PM -0500, Jim Leonard wrote: > A PDP-11 gets some love: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2114 Holy smokes, that is an impressive display. Having just hauled an identival 11/70 and 750 makes the whole thing extra impressive, it is _heavy_ iron. Thank you very much for sharing. /P From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Aug 11 02:56:22 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:56:22 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7D5F42.1080905@hachti.de> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <20090806103900.31ab3b84.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4A7BBBAF.2050504@hachti.de> <20090808093718.5501defa.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4A7D5F42.1080905@hachti.de> Message-ID: <20090811095622.30981b37.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:19:30 +0200 Philipp Hachtmann wrote: [real DMA vs. DMA bounce buffers] > > This is ugly. All data needs to be touched twice from the CPU. > Na und? *g* > From a performance point of view, this may be a bit (not too much) ugly. > But from the usability point of view, I don't see any great problems. > Usability means to be able to hook the real Unibus to a PC style machine. "It isn't done until it is done proper." I have seen far to much bad engineering. Especially in the PeeCee area. I don't wane spend my time with PeeCee crap. > It would be easy to install a bus mapper between the Unibus and the PCI > master interface. Just some more work. Then please do it. On the other side: The glue logic will be implemented in a FPGA. So it is software. Software is easy to change. I sugest that you first get the hardware going. Get some PCI-FPGA card, build an add on card with UniBus drivers, connect it to a real UniBus that contains only some memory and try to access this. If you got that far we can continue to fight about a proper IOMMU / UniBus map. The later is just a matter of software that is loaded into the FPGA. The real hard part is the hardware. > > Therefore: If you design a PCI-UniBus bridge _*PLEASE*_ implement a > > proper IOMMU / UniBus map. Everything else will be a ugly kludge. > > Just copy the VAX UniBus map and you are done. It does exactely what > > is needed. > For whom? Who will actually *use* that? The BSD drivers on the PC? If > yes, it would be worth a thought. Otherwise: No way. I'll be glad to > have a stable interface to the Unibus. Bus master access Unibus->PCI is > simply not planned for the first version. I have to define achievable > milestones. And this feature is simply far beyond my needs. I want to > access the Unibus. And I don't have a VAX that should be able to program > my PC. Only 18 bit CPUs and peripheral controllers. Without bus master support the bus bridge will be almost useless. As explained in an other post even an interrupt is a bus master transaction. Most storage devices use bus master DMA. You can't do without DMA. > Worst case example: > Assume the most stupid access method on PCI: 8 bit single transaction > read access. That costs 4 cycles per byte. Let's add another cycle for > the sake of a bad implementation on the card. Makes 5. > Then we come to a read transfer rate of approx. 6.3 MByte/s on the bus. > This would allow for roughly 25 complete Unibus memory dumps per second. The problem here is that the whole system is staled at UniBus PIO accesses. The CPU is utilized 100% just to move data around. If you use DMA the UniBus device handles the data transfer at its own. No CPU intervention is required and the CPU can do other things (like servicing user tasks). When DMA is ready the CPU gets an interrupt and that is all. > > But it will be a > > nightmare to the OS programmer that has to fight with it writing a > > device driver for it. > As you read above, I see no reason to avoid copying data in the driver. > The driver has to fight something like [...] > Perhaps I have a too much simplified view on the topic. In that case, > I'm grateful for enlightenment! The problem here is that the driver becomes dependent on your particular implementation of the UniBus bridge. E.g. NetBSD is save from this as it abstracts all bus access through bus_space(9) anyway. So the DMA bounce buffers have to be implemented in the bus_space(9) backend. But then you still have the problem that the whole system is staled at UniBus transactions. The CPU needs to do PIO read / writes and spends lots of wait states. You can't even shedule an other user process. The whole machine hangs inside the kernel as the CPU is spinning wait states. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Aug 11 07:17:46 2009 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 in Keene, NH (craigslist) Message-ID: <970024.55990.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://nh.craigslist.org/ele/1314921855.html He says: "I would hate to throw it out but it is too heavy to ship anywhere at a reasonable price." Clearly, he's not hip to the eBay market for these things. It will probably go free/cheap. The DPS-1 is an S-100 machine with a very nice full front panel, similar to an IMSAI, but a bit more stylish. This webpage has a photo of someone else's DPS-1: http://www.computercloset.org/InterSystemsDPS-1.htm --Bill From dbetz at xlisper.com Tue Aug 11 10:05:35 2009 From: dbetz at xlisper.com (David Betz) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:05:35 -0400 Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 in Keene, NH (craigslist) In-Reply-To: <970024.55990.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <970024.55990.qm@web82602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A55B95D-8197-4A38-821B-54AA82D76EB4@xlisper.com> On Aug 11, 2009, at 8:17 AM, William Maddox wrote: > > http://nh.craigslist.org/ele/1314921855.html > > He says: "I would hate to throw it out but it is too heavy to ship > anywhere at a reasonable price." Clearly, he's not hip to the eBay > market for these things. It will probably go free/cheap. > > The DPS-1 is an S-100 machine with a very nice full front panel, > similar to an IMSAI, but a bit more stylish. This webpage has > a photo of someone else's DPS-1: > > http://www.computercloset.org/InterSystemsDPS-1.htm > > --Bill I can get this if it's still available. I've sent him email. From emu at e-bbes.com Tue Aug 11 12:23:30 2009 From: emu at e-bbes.com (e.stiebler) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:23:30 -0600 Subject: contact lubricant Message-ID: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> Hi all, so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? Thanks From cclist at sydex.com Tue Aug 11 12:38:35 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:38:35 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <4A81AC9B.24705.14DAC18E@cclist.sydex.com> On 11 Aug 2009 at 11:23, e.stiebler wrote: > Hi all, > so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there > anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? > Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? Have a look at the CAIG DeOxIt cleaner-lubricants. Pick one that fits your wallet and requirements. It's all good stuff. http://www.caig.com/ --Chuck From jdr_use at bluewin.ch Tue Aug 11 12:39:06 2009 From: jdr_use at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:39:06 +0200 Subject: Question for the Dutch collectors... Message-ID: <4A81ACBA.9090208@bluewin.ch> I remember quit well reading, around 1977, a booklet from around 1973, I believe by Kluwer, describing a DIY computer build around the Siemens/Philips FDxnnn series of TTL chips. Memory was a philips corestack-module, something like 1K or 2K x 12 or x16. Of course there was no way of me building that in 1977, but now.... Does this ring a bell with anyone ? Jos From ploopster at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 12:39:06 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:39:06 -0400 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> e.stiebler wrote: > Hi all, > so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there > anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? > Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? The problem with contact lubricants is that they necessarily have to be conductive, so if you get more than a tiny amount on, it's game-over. There are lubricants out there that are designed for this purpose (such as polyphenyl ethers), but they tend to be used for connectors larger than the ones common in computers. Applying them to connectors the size of which are common in computers would be very tricky. Once you get them on there, though, they tend to be very resistant to evaporation and migration. Peace... Sridhar From cclist at sydex.com Tue Aug 11 14:28:37 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:28:37 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com> On 11 Aug 2009 at 13:39, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > The problem with contact lubricants is that they necessarily have to > be conductive, so if you get more than a tiny amount on, it's > game-over. There are lubricants out there that are designed for this > purpose (such as polyphenyl ethers), but they tend to be used for > connectors larger than the ones common in computers. Applying them to > connectors the size of which are common in computers would be very > tricky. Once you get them on there, though, they tend to be very > resistant to evaporation and migration. Do you mean that I should throw out my can of GC Tunerlube? --Chuck From ploopster at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 14:43:31 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:43:31 -0400 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> Chuck Guzis wrote: >> The problem with contact lubricants is that they necessarily have to >> be conductive, so if you get more than a tiny amount on, it's >> game-over. There are lubricants out there that are designed for this >> purpose (such as polyphenyl ethers), but they tend to be used for >> connectors larger than the ones common in computers. Applying them to >> connectors the size of which are common in computers would be very >> tricky. Once you get them on there, though, they tend to be very >> resistant to evaporation and migration. > > Do you mean that I should throw out my can of GC Tunerlube? I didn't say anything approaching anything resembling anything like that. Peace... Sridhar From cclist at sydex.com Tue Aug 11 16:07:01 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:07:01 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> On 11 Aug 2009 at 15:43, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > I didn't say anything approaching anything resembling anything like > that. ...And I apologize for the remark. But what do you recommend? --Chuck From wdonzelli at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 16:49:14 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:49:14 -0400 Subject: VT420s, 80 meg packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For the people interested in the 80 meg packs, please send your full shipping addresses (off list). -- Will From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Tue Aug 11 16:51:41 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:51:41 +0200 Subject: Question for the Dutch collectors... Message-ID: <200908112151.n7BLouwY005852@smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl> Jos, Did you try the cvml ? Ruud Baltissen has scanned a lot of Elektuurs and Radio Bulletins from that period , may you can find a reference there . -Rik -----Original Message----- From: "Jos Dreesen" To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: 08/11/2009 19:39 Subject: Question for the Dutch collectors... I remember quit well reading, around 1977, a booklet from around 1973, I believe by Kluwer, describing a DIY computer build around the Siemens/Philips FDxnnn series of TTL chips. Memory was a philips corestack-module, something like 1K or 2K x 12 or x16. Of course there was no way of me building that in 1977, but now.... Does this ring a bell with anyone ? Jos From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Tue Aug 11 20:57:28 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:57:28 -0700 Subject: Getting started with Transputers Message-ID: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> Hi all -- Is there a good site/documentation covering the ins and outs of Transputer hardware? (Or can anyone here help?) I'm interested in building a small Transputer setup to play around with but I can't find a good guide covering what's necessary and what hardware works with what, etc. Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major issue here :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item 220464801141) but I need more hardware to actually interface it with a PC, etc... are there any good sources for this hardware other than waiting for something to show up on eBay? Thanks as always, Josh From wdonzelli at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 21:00:27 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:00:27 -0400 Subject: VT420s, 80 meg packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to make things clear - the 80 meg packs are CDC 877 or equivalent. I also have some packs for a CDC 854. -- Will From ploopster at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 21:07:17 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:07:17 -0400 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> Chuck Guzis wrote: >> I didn't say anything approaching anything resembling anything like >> that. > > ...And I apologize for the remark. But what do you recommend? (I wasn't offended. 8-) ) Oh, I have no other suggestion, except that when one is applying the stuff, they should do so with a bit of care. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. I use contact lubricants myself, but only when absolutely necessary. Peace... Sridhar From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Aug 11 21:37:35 2009 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:37:35 -0700 Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 in Keene, NH (craigslist) In-Reply-To: <4A55B95D-8197-4A38-821B-54AA82D76EB4@xlisper.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:06 AM David Betz wrote: > I can get this if it's still available. I've sent him email. I was in communication with Ben and we were making arrangements and then all of the emails suddenly started bouncing. . . -- ----- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum - The Vintage Computer Forums marketplace.vintage-computer.com - The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace From brianlanning at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 21:54:16 2009 From: brianlanning at gmail.com (Brian Lanning) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:54:16 -0500 Subject: HP 4100 printer, is this a bad toner cartridge or roller kit? Message-ID: <6dbe3c380908111954n532a853avae6e8f2e7f04925c@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone. I'm ready to do the last fix on the hp 4100. Looks like I fixed the mangled paper problem. I managed to pull a loose 1/8" thick 1" square piece of black plastic out of the printer. So the paper path is looks right now. The last problem is a print quality problem. The left 1/2" of the page prints strangely with some ghost images, from higher up the page or the last page, copied every few inches down the page. This sounds to me like the toner drum, but since I don't know exactly what the roller kit is for, I'm not sure if that's the problem. Is the toner not coming off of the drum and on to the page? Or is the drum supposed to be cleaned off with something between pages and it's not? Any ideas what's happening? brian From dbetz at xlisper.com Tue Aug 11 22:01:44 2009 From: dbetz at xlisper.com (David Betz) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:01:44 -0400 Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 in Keene, NH (craigslist) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0544346A-1A4E-46CC-84C9-ACA895E5C9C0@xlisper.com> > On Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:06 AM David Betz wrote: > >> I can get this if it's still available. I've sent him email. > > > I was in communication with Ben and we were making arrangements and > then all > of the emails suddenly started bouncing. . . I got email from him too but he said he had lots of interest and it didn't sound likely that I would get it. I hope you do! From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Tue Aug 11 23:27:46 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:27:46 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A8244C3.CA48D14A@cs.ubc.ca> Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> I didn't say anything approaching anything resembling anything like > >> that. > > > > ...And I apologize for the remark. But what do you recommend? > > (I wasn't offended. 8-) ) > > Oh, I have no other suggestion, except that when one is applying the > stuff, they should do so with a bit of care. When in doubt, err on the > side of caution. I use contact lubricants myself, but only when > absolutely necessary. Perhaps you two are working from different definitions of 'contact lubricant'. There are contact cleaners, contact cleaners with lubricant (oil), and, (from what Sridhar is saying, I've never used them myself) 'contact conduction enhancers'. The stuff I personally hate is the contact cleaner with oil in it, primarily because a lot of people - unaware of the oil - like to liberally spray it around. Even if one is aware of it, it's generally under high enough pressure in the spray can that it's impossible to keep it from ending up all over the place. The cleaner evaporates, leaving a film of oil everywhere that it shouldn't be, that then drips and seeps around further, collects dust, and so on. Ick. From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 12 00:38:33 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:38:33 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A8244C3.CA48D14A@cs.ubc.ca> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A8244C3.CA48D14A@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <4A825559.19519.176E0875@cclist.sydex.com> On 11 Aug 2009 at 21:27, Brent Hilpert wrote: > Perhaps you two are working from different definitions of 'contact > lubricant'. That's probably true. There are some questions that probably should be asked, such as: 1. What is the nature of the contact? e.g. High power, RF, digital signal, millivolt, etc. 2. What are the contacts made of (e.g. gold over beryllium copper, tungsten, etc.) 3. How do the contacts operate? (e.g. wiping action vs. non-wiping) 4. What environment are the contacts exposed to? (e.g. high temp, oil mist, dust, corrosive vapors, etc.) I suspect that the answers to questions such as these will determine what, if anything, should be used. My apology was for a flip response . I'll mind my manners in the future. --Chuck From herb at sportwaves.com Tue Aug 11 15:55:50 2009 From: herb at sportwaves.com (Herb Riehl) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:55:50 -0600 Subject: RL02 / RL01 rack mounting rails needed Message-ID: <9C56FD58-193A-4D1E-99B5-45EFA4202EA7@sportwaves.com> Hi Ashley: I was looking on line to see if anybody out there is still interested in these vintage computers. Are you really using, or operating, a DEC RL02? If so, we would like to share our parts with you. Do you want to call me? (Or email) I have an 800 # 1-(800) 580-4122, ext 201 or my cell (303) 668-4002 Herb Riehl Lafayette, Colorado From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed Aug 12 10:31:27 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:31:27 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:39:06 -0400 > From: ploopster at gmail.com > To: > Subject: Re: contact lubricant > > e.stiebler wrote: > > Hi all, > > so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there > > anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? > > Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? > > The problem with contact lubricants is that they necessarily have to be > conductive, so if you get more than a tiny amount on, it's game-over. > There are lubricants out there that are designed for this purpose (such > as polyphenyl ethers), but they tend to be used for connectors larger > than the ones common in computers. Applying them to connectors the size > of which are common in computers would be very tricky. Once you get > them on there, though, they tend to be very resistant to evaporation and > migration. > > Peace... Sridhar Hi This is abslutely not true. I use DC#4 and it works great. I is often used in high voltage applications and an insulator so I doubt it is conductive in any way. I posted about experiments I've done while at Intel, years ago. It improved gold on gold contacts from 10-15 milliohms to less than 2 milliohms. This all while being non-conductive. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed Aug 12 10:54:49 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:54:49 -0700 Subject: HP 4100 printer, is this a bad toner cartridge or roller kit? In-Reply-To: <6dbe3c380908111954n532a853avae6e8f2e7f04925c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dbe3c380908111954n532a853avae6e8f2e7f04925c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:54:16 -0500 > Subject: HP 4100 printer, is this a bad toner cartridge or roller kit? > From: brianlanning at gmail.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > Hi everyone. I'm ready to do the last fix on the hp 4100. Looks like > I fixed the mangled paper problem. I managed to pull a loose 1/8" > thick 1" square piece of black plastic out of the printer. So the > paper path is looks right now. > > The last problem is a print quality problem. The left 1/2" of the > page prints strangely with some ghost images, from higher up the page > or the last page, copied every few inches down the page. This sounds > to me like the toner drum, but since I don't know exactly what the > roller kit is for, I'm not sure if that's the problem. Is the toner > not coming off of the drum and on to the page? Or is the drum > supposed to be cleaned off with something between pages and it's not? > Any ideas what's happening? > > brian Hi Brian On an HP, this is most likely the toner cartridge. It is not usually the drum that is bad though. It is a thing called a PCR. This is inside the toner cartridge. It often gets covered with toner and will cause ghosting. They can often be cleaned but it does require opening the cartridge. This usually happens when the toner has not been used for a long time and the rubber in the PCR breaks down and becomes gooy (sp?). It then gets a coating of toner that insulates it. There is also a wiper that can fail. It removed the loose toner that the PCR removes the difference in charge from. If that isn't making good contact, it will also cause ghosting. So, as you can see, both can case ghosting. A drum failure is usually blank spots. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 From alexeyt at freeshell.org Wed Aug 12 11:14:19 2009 From: alexeyt at freeshell.org (Alexey Toptygin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:14:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Josh Dersch wrote: > Hi all -- > > Is there a good site/documentation covering the ins and outs of Transputer > hardware? (Or can anyone here help?) I'm interested in building a small > Transputer setup to play around with but I can't find a good guide covering > what's necessary and what hardware works with what, etc. First of all, check out: http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/ if you haven't already. If you are looking for books, "Transputer Instruction Set -- A compiler writer's guide" is very good, it will tell you everything you need to know about the ISA. I can dig up some more book titles if you like, I have about 10 of them all told... AFAICT, all transputer hardware was more-or-less custom, due to the low volume of production. The only hardware standard I am aware of (besides the serial link and the CPU pinout) is the TRAM. > Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major issue here > :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item 220464801141) but I need > more hardware to actually interface it with a PC, etc... are there any good > sources for this hardware other than waiting for something to show up on > eBay? My experience has been that you can find the chips, and you can find literature, but interfaces and working systems are pretty much unobtanium at this point. I am building my own ISA to transputer serial link interface, hope to have it working in a year or so :-/ My eventual goal is to write a fast emulator. Alexey From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Wed Aug 12 11:17:45 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:17:45 -0700 Subject: How tough is it ?? References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY MORE MESSAGES TO MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS. I'M SHUTTING THAT ADDRESS DOWN. THROUGH THE CC WEBSITE I FILLED OUT THE CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIX THIS SINCE MAY 23RD. I THOUGHT THE BOUNCES WOULD FIX THIS ( IT DID TEMPORARILY ) BUT WE ARE RIGHT BACK WERE WE STARTED. THANKS, STEVEN From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 12:46:53 2009 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:46:53 +0200 Subject: PDP-11/53 Collectors Unix Computer - $400 (Gaithersburg) @craigslist Message-ID: On craigslist: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/sys/1318503916.html -- Stephane http://3w.posterous.com From ploopster at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 13:31:47 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:31:47 -0400 Subject: How tough is it ?? In-Reply-To: <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <4A830A93.7080808@gmail.com> Scanning wrote: > PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY MORE MESSAGES TO MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS. I'M SHUTTING > THAT ADDRESS DOWN. THROUGH THE CC WEBSITE I FILLED OUT THE CHANGE OF EMAIL > ADDRESS. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIX THIS SINCE MAY 23RD. I THOUGHT THE BOUNCES > WOULD FIX THIS ( IT DID TEMPORARILY ) BUT WE ARE RIGHT BACK WERE WE STARTED. Shouting not appreciated. Peace... Sridhar From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 16:12:14 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:12:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> from "Josh Dersch" at Aug 11, 9 06:57:28 pm Message-ID: > > Hi all -- > > Is there a good site/documentation covering the ins and outs of > Transputer hardware? (Or can anyone here help?) I'm interested in I'v spend rather too much time building transputer-based devices, so I might be able to help... You _need_ the INMOS databooks. Period. Given those and the necessary chips, you can get started. In fact it took me < 1 hour from opening the book to having a transputer run a (pre-written) test program. OK, I was lucky in that I had access to a host with a transputer link I could use to boot my device, but even so... > building a small Transputer setup to play around with but I can't find a > good guide covering what's necessary and what hardware works with what, etc. If you ignore the T9000 (did they ever really exist), just about anything works with anything... > > Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major issue > here :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item 220464801141) but > I need more hardware to actually interface it with a PC, etc... are OK, what you need is : A transputer chip. Not necessarily on a TRAM (TRAnsputer Module). You can boot a 'bare' chip (it has a tiny amount of RAM inside), or add external RAM to a transputer chip. The memory interface is really nice, you can hook up DRAM will little more than an address multiplexer and latches. A 5MHz clock source. I found a 10MHz oscillator can a '74 was the easiest way. A host adaptor. This is the bit you're really missing. INMOS made a couple of ICs to connect an 8-bit microprocessor but to a transputer link -- these being the C011 and C012. There was at least one ISA trasnputer board (I am thinking of the B004) that consisted of a C011 (I think), address deocder/ISA interface, a T414 (again, could be other trasnputers), and a load of DRAM. This gave you one trasnputer linked to the PC (effectively) and the other links came out on a pin header on the conenctor bracked so you could hang other things off it. There was also a TRAM motherboard, the number of which I forget, that fitted an ISA slot. Again, it had the host link interface, and IIRC a C004 libk switch IC (lets you configure the links between transputers) on it. And sockets for 8 or 10 TRAMs. In the very early days of trasnputers, the link interface ICs didn't exist. INMOS made some boards that had _RS232 ports_ on them for the host interface. The board contained a transputer, RAM, ROM and a serial chip -- the ROM was executed rather than the bootstrap code in the transputer (which would cause said transptuer to boot over a link). The ROM coatained code to boot it from a serial port. I do not recoemnd goign this route unless you've found some of those boards, finding a host link interface is a lot easier -tony From rachael at dahl-pind.dk Wed Aug 12 18:06:00 2009 From: rachael at dahl-pind.dk (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:06:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Josh Dersch wrote: > Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major issue here > :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item 220464801141) but I need > more hardware to actually interface it with a PC, etc... are there any good > sources for this hardware other than waiting for something to show up on > eBay? AVM B1 isdn adaptor, is a b004 compatible board, that has a t425 and 1mb memory. Those can be found on ebay cheaply, I have one I toys around with, they come in different version version 1 has everything in sockets, making it ideal, v2 has smd components, but is otherwise the same. The have sockets for a single tram also. more info here http://www.geekdot.com/index.php?page=avm-b1 I got myself one of those boards after seeing the site, hope to use it as a interface board, I have two 805 in a drawer here, hoping one day to build something around them. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 12 20:53:56 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:53:56 -0700 Subject: Programming 68764s Message-ID: <4A837234.12341.1BC6D421@cclist.sydex.com> Has anyone here done much programming of Motorola 68764s? I'm using my usually reliable EZEP programmer, but the EPROMs don't show a good erase (after an hour in the eraser, I can still see bytes with F7/F3 values). And trying to program 00 fails on the first byte after 25 pulses, showing 07 instead of 00. I'm using Vcc of +6 and Vpp of +25. These EPROMs are supposedly NOS and have date codes of 1982. Any suggestions? Thanks, Chuck From zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com Wed Aug 12 22:05:07 2009 From: zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:05:07 -0400 Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <4A837234.12341.1BC6D421@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090812225236.036aabc8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Chuck Guzis may have mentioned these words: >Has anyone here done much programming of Motorola 68764s? I'm using >my usually reliable EZEP programmer, but the EPROMs don't show a good >erase (after an hour in the eraser, I can still see bytes with F7/F3 >values). And trying to program 00 fails on the first byte after 25 >pulses, showing 07 instead of 00.\ Hrm, I picked up a "mongo" eraser on ePay a few years ago, it's a spectroline PR320t, it usually takes 30-45 minutes or so to erase them, IIRC. It'll do 25-30 in a batch... it's *big*. ;-) I have had a few duds (maybe 3-5% tops) but generally the ones that verify the erase work fine. My "low-end" Xeltek programmer (Superpro/L) programs & verifies them just fine - I've had no real problems at all (well, again, except for the duds) unless my homemade cradle adapter (lovingly crafted from 2 wire-wrap sockets to "rub" the contacts on the eprom - they're in HHC carriers) has a bad contact. The programmer's DOS software seems to set all the right parameters to "just work." As I've had precious few problems, I'm afraid beyond that I can't be a ton o'help... That said, I hope this does help at least a little. If you're not in a hurry, I could erase & verify some for you if you want - it'll be at least a few weeks before I'd have time to do that, and you'd have to (carefully) extricate the chips from the HHC carriers yourself. That said, once I had the time, I'd even be happy to program & verify them for you if you sent me the PROM files - my xeltek software recognizes straight binary, Intel hex & Moto S, IIRC. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch at 30below.com | From rdawson16 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 12 22:29:19 2009 From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:29:19 -0500 Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090812225236.036aabc8@mail.30below.com> References: <4A837234.12341.1BC6D421@cclist.sydex.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20090812225236.036aabc8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: go get yourself a 'germicidal lamp' at the light bulb store. It works in any florescent fixture... Much cheaper that a commercial UV eraser Randy PS where is my white cane honey, you drive. I cant see so well these days. > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:05:07 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > From: zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com > Subject: Re: Programming 68764s > > Rumor has it that Chuck Guzis may have mentioned these words: > >Has anyone here done much programming of Motorola 68764s? I'm using > >my usually reliable EZEP programmer, but the EPROMs don't show a good > >erase (after an hour in the eraser, I can still see bytes with F7/F3 > >values). And trying to program 00 fails on the first byte after 25 > >pulses, showing 07 instead of 00.\ > > Hrm, I picked up a "mongo" eraser on ePay a few years ago, it's a > spectroline PR320t, it usually takes 30-45 minutes or so to erase them, > IIRC. It'll do 25-30 in a batch... it's *big*. ;-) > > I have had a few duds (maybe 3-5% tops) but generally the ones that verify > the erase work fine. > > My "low-end" Xeltek programmer (Superpro/L) programs & verifies them just > fine - I've had no real problems at all (well, again, except for the duds) > unless my homemade cradle adapter (lovingly crafted from 2 wire-wrap > sockets to "rub" the contacts on the eprom - they're in HHC carriers) has a > bad contact. > > The programmer's DOS software seems to set all the right parameters to > "just work." > > As I've had precious few problems, I'm afraid beyond that I can't be a ton > o'help... That said, I hope this does help at least a little. > > If you're not in a hurry, I could erase & verify some for you if you want - > it'll be at least a few weeks before I'd have time to do that, and you'd > have to (carefully) extricate the chips from the HHC carriers yourself. > That said, once I had the time, I'd even be happy to program & verify them > for you if you sent me the PROM files - my xeltek software recognizes > straight binary, Intel hex & Moto S, IIRC. > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." > SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein > zmerch at 30below.com | > _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 12 22:44:26 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:44:26 -0700 Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: References: <4A837234.12341.1BC6D421@cclist.sydex.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20090812225236.036aabc8@mail.30below.com>, Message-ID: <4A838C1A.405.1C2C0008@cclist.sydex.com> On 12 Aug 2009 at 22:29, Randy Dawson wrote: > go get yourself a 'germicidal lamp' at the light bulb store. It works > in any florescent fixture... > > Much cheaper that a commercial UV eraser Mine's an old Logical Devices unit that I've owned for more than 20 years and has never had any problems "cooking" UVEPROMs, so I don't think it's the eraser. I wonder if it's the algorithm/parameter setup on my programmer. So I'm trying to think up an alternate strategy to see if the things are really erased. I should be able to read/blank-check at least half of these things by calling them 2532s, shouldn't I? What I'm wondering is if this batch isn't a bunch of NOS rejects. Thanks, Chuck From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Aug 12 23:13:54 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:13:54 -0400 Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <4A838C1A.405.1C2C0008@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A837234.12341.1BC6D421@cclist.sydex.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20090812225236.036aabc8@mail.30below.com>, <4A838C1A.405.1C2C0008@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <1AD93439-D156-44A5-A103-19F5B9960E11@neurotica.com> On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Mine's an old Logical Devices unit that I've owned for more than 20 > years and has never had any problems "cooking" UVEPROMs, so I don't > think it's the eraser. I wonder if it's the algorithm/parameter > setup on my programmer. So I'm trying to think up an alternate > strategy to see if the things are really erased. > > I should be able to read/blank-check at least half of these things by > calling them 2532s, shouldn't I? > > What I'm wondering is if this batch isn't a bunch of NOS rejects. Is overerasure a possibility? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Aug 12 23:45:00 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: from Randy Dawson at "Aug 12, 9 10:29:19 pm" Message-ID: <200908130445.n7D4j02g015890@floodgap.com> > go get yourself a 'germicidal lamp' at the light bulb store. It works in > any florescent fixture... > Much cheaper that a commercial UV eraser > Randy > PS where is my white cane honey, you drive. I cant see so well these days. Hah. I work around those several days a week. I try not to look anywhere at them. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Support your local Search and Rescue. Get lost. ---------------------------- From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Aug 13 00:21:20 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:21:20 -0700 Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: References: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A83A2D0.4040409@mail.msu.edu> Jacob Dahl Pind wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Josh Dersch wrote: > >> Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major >> issue here :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item >> 220464801141) but I need more hardware to actually interface it with >> a PC, etc... are there any good sources for this hardware other than >> waiting for something to show up on eBay? > > AVM B1 isdn adaptor, is a b004 compatible board, that has a t425 and > 1mb memory. Those can be found on ebay cheaply, I have one I toys > around with, they come in different version version 1 has everything > in sockets, making it ideal, v2 has smd components, but is otherwise > the same. > The have sockets for a single tram also. > > more info here http://www.geekdot.com/index.php?page=avm-b1 > > I got myself one of those boards after seeing the site, hope to use it > as a interface board, I have two 805 in a drawer here, hoping one day > to build something around them. > > Regards Jacob Dahl Pind > Wow, that's pretty cool... I'll have to keep my eyes open for one of those -- thanks for pointing that out! - Josh From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Thu Aug 13 00:25:21 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:25:21 -0700 Subject: How tough is it ?? References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A830A93.7080808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000b01ca1bd6$7759de10$0201a8c0@hal9000> TOUGH TITTY !! I'M AT THE END OF MY PATIENCE..... / sac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sridhar Ayengar" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:31 AM Subject: Re: How tough is it ?? > Scanning wrote: > > PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY MORE MESSAGES TO MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS. I'M SHUTTING > > THAT ADDRESS DOWN. THROUGH THE CC WEBSITE I FILLED OUT THE CHANGE OF EMAIL > > ADDRESS. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIX THIS SINCE MAY 23RD. I THOUGHT THE BOUNCES > > WOULD FIX THIS ( IT DID TEMPORARILY ) BUT WE ARE RIGHT BACK WERE WE STARTED. > > Shouting not appreciated. > > Peace... Sridhar From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Aug 13 00:33:46 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:33:46 -0700 Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A83A5BA.4050005@mail.msu.edu> Tony Duell wrote: >> Hi all -- >> >> Is there a good site/documentation covering the ins and outs of >> Transputer hardware? (Or can anyone here help?) I'm interested in >> > > I'v spend rather too much time building transputer-based devices, so I > might be able to help... > > You _need_ the INMOS databooks. Period. Given those and the necessary > chips, you can get started. In fact it took me < 1 hour from opening the > book to having a transputer run a (pre-written) test program. OK, I was > lucky in that I had access to a host with a transputer link I could use > to boot my device, but even so... > > >> building a small Transputer setup to play around with but I can't find a >> good guide covering what's necessary and what hardware works with what, etc. >> > > If you ignore the T9000 (did they ever really exist), just about anything > works with anything... > > >> Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major issue >> here :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item 220464801141) but >> I need more hardware to actually interface it with a PC, etc... are >> > > OK, what you need is : > > A transputer chip. Not necessarily on a TRAM (TRAnsputer Module). You can > boot a 'bare' chip (it has a tiny amount of RAM inside), or add external > RAM to a transputer chip. The memory interface is really nice, you can > hook up DRAM will little more than an address multiplexer and latches. > > A 5MHz clock source. I found a 10MHz oscillator can a '74 was the easiest > way. > > A host adaptor. This is the bit you're really missing. INMOS made a > couple of ICs to connect an 8-bit microprocessor but to a transputer link > -- these being the C011 and C012. There was at least one ISA trasnputer > board (I am thinking of the B004) that consisted of a C011 (I think), > address deocder/ISA interface, a T414 (again, could be other > trasnputers), and a load of DRAM. This gave you one trasnputer linked to > the PC (effectively) and the other links came out on a pin header on the > conenctor bracked so you could hang other things off it. > > There was also a TRAM motherboard, the number of which I forget, that > fitted an ISA slot. Again, it had the host link interface, and IIRC a > C004 libk switch IC (lets you configure the links between transputers) on > it. And sockets for 8 or 10 TRAMs. > > In the very early days of trasnputers, the link interface ICs didn't > exist. INMOS made some boards that had _RS232 ports_ on them for the host > interface. The board contained a transputer, RAM, ROM and a serial chip > -- the ROM was executed rather than the bootstrap code in the transputer > (which would cause said transptuer to boot over a link). The ROM > coatained code to boot it from a serial port. I do not recoemnd goign > this route unless you've found some of those boards, finding a host link > interface is a lot easier > Cool, thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a host adaptor, then. I actually have a few mystery boards with Transputer chips on them (T800s). They're VME-ish (not sure if they're actually VME or just look like it) and have a variety of A/D converters onboard. Labeled as "TRANSPUTER I/O-BOARD TIOB V2.0" and it looks like the manufacturer may be Bosch. Based on the labels on the analog inputs, it may have been used for some sort of automotive simulation or testing. Haven't been able to find any real information on the boards so I haven't been able to do much with them other than speculate. Josh > -tony > > > From ploopster at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 00:39:50 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:39:50 -0400 Subject: How tough is it ?? In-Reply-To: <000b01ca1bd6$7759de10$0201a8c0@hal9000> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A830A93.7080808@gmail.com> <000b01ca1bd6$7759de10$0201a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <4A83A726.6020303@gmail.com> Scanning wrote: > TOUGH TITTY !! I'M AT THE END OF MY PATIENCE..... *plonk* Peace... Sridhar From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Thu Aug 13 02:00:19 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:00:19 -0700 Subject: How tough is it ?? References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A830A93.7080808@gmail.com> <000b01ca1bd6$7759de10$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A83A726.6020303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000501ca1be3$b84a1770$0201a8c0@hal9000> * haramzada * /sac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sridhar Ayengar" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:39 PM Subject: Re: How tough is it ?? > Scanning wrote: > > TOUGH TITTY !! I'M AT THE END OF MY PATIENCE..... > > *plonk* > > Peace... Sridhar From gyorpb at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 02:48:20 2009 From: gyorpb at gmail.com (Joost van de Griek) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:48:20 +0200 Subject: How tough is it ?? In-Reply-To: <000501ca1be3$b84a1770$0201a8c0@hal9000> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com> <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A830A93.7080808@gmail.com> <000b01ca1bd6$7759de10$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A83A726.6020303@gmail.com> <000501ca1be3$b84a1770$0201a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <766444380908130048y1355ec86o666013c56cfa1e0@mail.gmail.com> It's not very tough at all. Just follow the instructions to the unsubscribe email you'll be receiveing right about now. And please stop this silliness. .tsooJ From vbriel at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 13:12:22 2009 From: vbriel at yahoo.com (Vince Briel) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: HP 4100 printer, is this a bad toner cartridge or roller kit? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <654596.2272.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Pressure?surface on those go bad and usually starts with the edges. If you print the settings there is a box outline that prints on the settings page that will be shadowed or smudged. Vince?Replica 1 the Apple 1 clone Micro-KIM the KIM-1 clone The new PockeTerm Terminal board http://www.brielcomputers.com From james at machineroom.info Wed Aug 12 14:05:11 2009 From: james at machineroom.info (James Wilson) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:05:11 +0100 Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A831267.1000301@machineroom.info> Josh Dersch wrote: > Hi all -- > > Is there a good site/documentation covering the ins and outs of > Transputer hardware? (Or can anyone here help?) I'm interested in > building a small Transputer setup to play around with but I can't find > a good guide covering what's necessary and what hardware works with > what, etc. > > Of course, finding the hardware is probably going to be the major > issue here :). There are some TRAMs on ebay right now (item > 220464801141) but I need more hardware to actually interface it with a > PC, etc... are there any good sources for this hardware other than > waiting for something to show up on eBay? > > Thanks as always, > Josh > Hi Josh, there's a fantastic reference site here on classiccmp! http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/ Other links of interest: http://wotug.kent.ac.uk/parallel/ http://www-ik.fzk.de/~weindl/docu/misc/dosemu_inmos.html http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~dave/transputer.html http://www.wizzy.com/wizzy/ispy.html Regards, James From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Wed Aug 12 22:20:23 2009 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:20:23 -0400 Subject: Visual 1050 sys disks diff from Daves Old Computers Message-ID: I have a set of the system disks available from Daves Old Computers - System / Install Disks. These are revision 1.1 of the 1050 BIOS for CP/M 3. Does anybody have a later BIOS revision they could share? I am looking for a version that had support for an external hard drive off the winchester port, e.g. the presence of the file WINCH.ASM on the BIOS source disk would indicate this. I know revision 1.3 had this support, not sure about other versions. From jonas at otter.se Thu Aug 13 02:33:03 2009 From: jonas at otter.se (Jonas Otter) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:33:03 +0200 Subject: contact lubricant Message-ID: <000301ca1be8$4af4f2d0$e0ded870$@se> e.stiebler wrote: > > Hi all, > so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there > anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? > Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? > > Thanks > The model railway people use ordinary light oil, extremely sparingly applied (e.g. 1 drop for several metres of rail). Apparently the oil forms a very thin film which protects against oxidation, and the wheels penetrate the film, making contact despite the oil being an insulator. Obviously the rails/contacts need to be cleaned first. Also the film is so thin that it does not attract gunk. From dave09 at dunfield.com Thu Aug 13 07:15:22 2009 From: dave09 at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:15:22 -0500 Subject: Visual 1050 sys disks diff from Daves Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <298E25C85268@dunfield.com> > > I have a set of the system disks available from Daves Old Computers - > System / Install Disks. These are revision 1.1 of the 1050 BIOS for > CP/M 3. > > Does anybody have a later BIOS revision they could share? I am looking > for a version that had support for an external hard drive off the > winchester port, e.g. the presence of the file WINCH.ASM on the BIOS > source disk would indicate this. > > I know revision 1.3 had this support, not sure about other versions. These images are from original system disks that came with my Visual 1050 - this unit never had a hard drive, and unfortunately, that's all I have. If someone does turn up newer/better disks, I would of course appreciate images for the archive. Regards, Dave -- dave09 (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html From ragooman at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 08:12:00 2009 From: ragooman at comcast.net (ragooman at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:12:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <4A838C1A.405.1C2C0008@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <1756424955.12676081250169120250.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" cclist at sydex.com I wonder if it's the algorithm/parameter? setup on my programmer. ? So I'm trying to think up an alternate strategy to see if the things are really erased. What I'm wondering is if this batch isn't a bunch of NOS rejects. there isn't any algorithm for reading devices--only programming--. the read operation is no different that a uP read operation--aside from from slight differences in access speed, but essentially the same. if the the blank check says 'not erased' you can be assured they are not erased. If that eraser is 20yrs old, your bulb must be too weak to?erase these devices - should try a new bulb first =Dan From rachael at dahl-pind.dk Thu Aug 13 08:27:38 2009 From: rachael at dahl-pind.dk (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:27:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A822188.8000801@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: Speaking of transputers , there is a bit of parsytec hardware on ebay.de , item 160353647101. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 13 09:28:34 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:28:34 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <000301ca1be8$4af4f2d0$e0ded870$@se> References: <000301ca1be8$4af4f2d0$e0ded870$@se> Message-ID: <4A842312.5090807@bitsavers.org> Jonas Otter wrote: > The model railway people use ordinary light oil And the currents they are dealing with are significantly higher than those of logic signals. This is a similar problem to switch failures where you don't have enough current to keep a contact closure at a low resistance. From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 13 12:14:37 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:14:37 -0700 Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <1756424955.12676081250169120250.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <4A838C1A.405.1C2C0008@cclist.sydex.com>, <1756424955.12676081250169120250.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A8449FD.25926.1F11BC9D@cclist.sydex.com> On 13 Aug 2009 at 13:12, ragooman at comcast.net wrote: > If that eraser is 20yrs old, your bulb must be too weak to?erase > these devices - should try a new bulb first I programmed a pair of 2764s to 00 and sat them in the eraser next to the 68764s--the 2764s erased, the Motorola chips didn't. My eraser is still potent enough to tweak your nose with the scent of ozone. I guess this vendor is selling duds. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 15:11:13 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:11:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A83A5BA.4050005@mail.msu.edu> from "Josh Dersch" at Aug 12, 9 10:33:46 pm Message-ID: > I actually have a few mystery boards with Transputer chips on them > (T800s). They're VME-ish (not sure if they're actually VME or just look I would assume they're not VMA. The VME form-factor is actually just a double Eurocard, and is a very standard PCB in Europe for all sorts of purposes -- I've got Philips P800 stuff on such boards, for example, my homebrew transputer ssytem ended up on the same size PCBs, and so on. > like it) and have a variety of A/D converters onboard. Labeled as > "TRANSPUTER I/O-BOARD TIOB V2.0" and it looks like the manufacturer may > be Bosch. Based on the labels on the analog inputs, it may have been > used for some sort of automotive simulation or testing. Haven't been Quite possible. My _guess_ is that this won't have the host interface on it, rather that the interconnection between the boards will be transputer links. What chips are on the boards -- particularly Inmos ones? Any C011 or C012 devices? -tony From ragooman at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 17:42:58 2009 From: ragooman at comcast.net (Dan Roganti) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:42:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <4A8449FD.25926.1F11BC9D@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <736810479.12946801250203378586.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" My eraser is still potent enough to tweak your nose with the scent of ozone. I love the smell of ozone in the morning, it makes for an exhilarating day :) =Dan From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Thu Aug 13 18:24:23 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: logic probe cases have arrived Message-ID: Those of you who are in on the logic probe case group buy I organized will be pleased to read that the cases have arrived. They should arrive in their new owners' hands in a week. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From marvin at west.net Thu Aug 13 19:21:49 2009 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:21:49 -0700 Subject: Apple Memorabilia For Sale Message-ID: <4A84AE1D.9090008@west.net> I have no connection or knowledge of this site; I saw it posted as a tweet from Ed_Dale from the Thirty Day Challenge (free IM course) since apparently this is a site built using the 30DC lessons. http://www.saldanah.com/applesale/ From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 13 19:34:51 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:34:51 -0700 Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <736810479.12946801250203378586.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <736810479.12946801250203378586.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A84B12B.9010006@bitsavers.org> Dan Roganti wrote: > I love the smell of ozone in the morning, it makes for an exhilarating day :) > I hope there isn't anything made of rubber around it that you care about. From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Aug 13 19:49:11 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:49:11 -0700 Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A84B487.7020603@mail.msu.edu> Tony Duell wrote: >> I actually have a few mystery boards with Transputer chips on them >> (T800s). They're VME-ish (not sure if they're actually VME or just look >> > > I would assume they're not VMA. The VME form-factor is actually just a > double Eurocard, and is a very standard PCB in Europe for all sorts of > purposes -- I've got Philips P800 stuff on such boards, for example, my > homebrew transputer ssytem ended up on the same size PCBs, and so on. > > >> like it) and have a variety of A/D converters onboard. Labeled as >> "TRANSPUTER I/O-BOARD TIOB V2.0" and it looks like the manufacturer may >> be Bosch. Based on the labels on the analog inputs, it may have been >> used for some sort of automotive simulation or testing. Haven't been >> > > Quite possible. My _guess_ is that this won't have the host interface on > it, rather that the interconnection between the boards will be transputer > links. > > What chips are on the boards -- particularly Inmos ones? Any C011 or C012 > devices? > The only Inmos chip on the board appears to be the Transputer chip itself (A T800). There's a fair amount of TTL stuff, a couple of GALs, four 256kbit RAM chips, an AMD 9513, and then the A/D stuff. Josh > -tony > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 13 20:45:24 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:45:24 -0400 Subject: MECC Networks... In-Reply-To: <497A73D6.2040501@gmail.com> References: <497A5E7D.2070400@dunnington.plus.com> <497A73D6.2040501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A84C1B4.4010908@atarimuseum.com> I am looking for anyone who may have or know of anyone who has some of the old MECC Network hubs and software. MECC had a custom in-house designed RS422-like network system in classes to allow computers to share their disk drives and printers and to load software up to the computers on the network. If anyone can help, I would appreciate it. Curt From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Thu Aug 13 21:42:47 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:42:47 -0700 Subject: Late-Summer cleaning! Message-ID: <4A84CF27.20406@mail.msu.edu> So about 5 months ago I converted some unused attic space into storage and moved a bunch of my computer collection up there (not quite enough to bring down the ceiling, but close :)). Since then I haven't touched most of it, which made me realize I'm just hoarding this stuff for no good reason. So I'm looking to get rid of it. I'll be listing this stuff on the VCM forums as well. Stuff is free unless otherwise noted. Stuff is As-Is. I'm trying to be as accurate as possible here, if you need more clarification feel free to ask. PICKUP ONLY in the Seattle, WA area (I live about 15 mi north of Seattle). I'm happy to drive out a ways (say, 2-3 hours) to meet you halfway if that helps. I will not ship. (I suck at it, and I just don't have the time.) Thanks, Josh The Stuff! ---------- Computers: --------------- - 2x Compaq Portable. Neither work, but enough parts between the two to build one working machine. - TRS-80 Model II with 8" drive expansion box (with 2 drives populated). I have M16 upgrade cards that should work with it. Works, but could use a cap kit. - HP-1000 E-Series. Needs power supply repair, bare system with just the main system planar/motherboard and front panel (which does work, last I tested it.) - Commodore PET 8032 and 4032. One 4040 drive. Cabling, should you need it. (4032 had some parts scavenged from the system board.) - HP 9000/236 (works, but floppy controller is not happy) - SGI Personal Iris 4D/35. Does not power up, slightly dirty. I have some RAM for it. Otherwise complete. - Misc Macintosh II/IIx systems. Very dirty, do not power up. (Possibly just need new PRAM batteries.) - Misc Macintosh Portables. Some power up (if a new battery is in place) but have lines missing from LCDs or other issues. None have working hard drives. (Sorry.) - HP C100/9000 (PA-RISC). Works, to the best of my knowledge. - Sun Ultra Enterprise II. 2xUltraSparc IIi (233Mhz?). 512mb ram. - DEC MicroVax II boardset w/16mb ram. - DEC MicroVax I boardset. Monitors: --------- - Commodore 1702. Works. - Amdek Color II. Works. - Apple II color. Works. - NeXT 17" and 21" color displays. 21" is a bit beat up. Misc: ----- - Beehive terminal. (I believe it is a Super Bee) No keyboard. Needs repair. 8008 CPU! - HP LaserJet 5P. Works great, relatively new toner cartridge. Missing rear-side panels. - 2x Teletype M43 for repair (both power up but print head does not move). Need new ribbons (of course.) - Various SCSI enclosures (full and half-height...) Whew, that's it. Again, ask if there are any questions, and no, honestly, please no, I can't ship any of this. From g-wright at att.net Thu Aug 13 23:03:49 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:03:49 +0000 Subject: 80 meg packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <081420090403.1964.4A84E22400094EFE000007AC22230703629B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> Hi Will, I tried to email you last night but I do not think it went through ??? I could use 4 of the 877 disk packs if you still have some. Jerry Wright JLC inc. 1517 Central ave So. Kent, Wa. 98032 253-854-9601 PST Thanks, Jerry -------------- Original message from William Donzelli : -------------- > Just to make things clear - the 80 meg packs are CDC 877 or equivalent. > > I also have some packs for a CDC 854. > > -- > Will From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Fri Aug 14 01:25:22 2009 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:25:22 +0100 Subject: Late-Summer cleaning! In-Reply-To: <4A84CF27.20406@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A84CF27.20406@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <000301ca1ca8$01ed1ac0$05c75040$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> > Again, ask if there are any questions, and no, > honestly, please no, I can't ship any of this. Not even the MicroVAX II memory? If you are prepared to wait, I expect to be in Seattle in January or early February next year and I would be interested in your MicroVAX II boards. Regards Rob From csquared3 at tx.rr.com Thu Aug 13 13:17:31 2009 From: csquared3 at tx.rr.com (CSquared) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:17:31 -0500 Subject: Programming 68764s References: <4A837234.12341.1BC6D421@cclist.sydex.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20090812225236.036aabc8@mail.30below.com>, <4A838C1A.405.1C2C0008@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <003301ca1c42$52d2b3c0$6500a8c0@workroomdsktop1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Programming 68764s > On 12 Aug 2009 at 22:29, Randy Dawson wrote: > >> go get yourself a 'germicidal lamp' at the light bulb store. It works >> in any florescent fixture... >> >> Much cheaper that a commercial UV eraser > > Mine's an old Logical Devices unit that I've owned for more than 20 > years and has never had any problems "cooking" UVEPROMs, so I don't > think it's the eraser. I wonder if it's the algorithm/parameter > setup on my programmer. So I'm trying to think up an alternate > strategy to see if the things are really erased. > > I should be able to read/blank-check at least half of these things by > calling them 2532s, shouldn't I? > > What I'm wondering is if this batch isn't a bunch of NOS rejects. > > Thanks, > Chuck > I seem to recall a technique where one (rather gently I believe) bakes EPROMS in an oven to restore proper behavior. Perhaps someone else recalls the details, as unfortunately I don't. I also don't recall whether this was a fix for erase failures or not. Later, Charlie Carothers -- You can email me at: csquared3 at tx dot rr dot com From pinball at telus.net Thu Aug 13 17:53:36 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:53:36 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> dwight elvey wrote: > >> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:39:06 -0400 >> From: ploopster at gmail.com >> To: >> Subject: Re: contact lubricant >> >> e.stiebler wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there >>> anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? >>> Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? >>> >> The problem with contact lubricants is that they necessarily have to be >> conductive, so if you get more than a tiny amount on, it's game-over. >> There are lubricants out there that are designed for this purpose (such >> as polyphenyl ethers), but they tend to be used for connectors larger >> than the ones common in computers. Applying them to connectors the size >> of which are common in computers would be very tricky. Once you get >> them on there, though, they tend to be very resistant to evaporation and >> migration. >> >> Peace... Sridhar >> > > > Hi > > This is abslutely not true. I use DC#4 and it works great. I is often used > > in high voltage applications and an insulator so I doubt it is conductive > > in any way. > > I posted about experiments I've done while at Intel, years ago. > > It improved gold on gold contacts from 10-15 milliohms to less than > > 2 milliohms. This all while being non-conductive. > > Dwight > > We use DC#4 on our classic computerized (to stay on topic) pinball games, and we find too that contact resistance appears to drop after application. We are dealing with medium current (6 - 15A) through regular Molex pins and the connectors are noticably cooler after a dab of DC#4 is added. We apply it to connectors and plugs and the results are longer life and reduced insertion/extraction resistance as well. I have searched for documents from Dow Corning to support this as I do recall seeing something to that effect when I first found out about this great compound about ten years ago. No luck so far! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 14 02:28:56 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:28:56 -0700 Subject: PDP 11/40 Unibus termination query... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A851238.8020101@mail.msu.edu> Tony Duell wrote: >> Ok -- thanks to the gracious help of several list members, I now know >> where the NPG jumpers are. I checked them out on my backplane, and >> they're all installed. Based on my understanding, this should be >> correct for my current configuration -- the only card installed is a >> 64KW memory board, which isn't a DMA device, so the NPG jumper for that >> slot should still be installed, correct? >> > > That's right. A memory board doesn't use the NPG signal, so the jumper > should be in place. > > What I would do next is grab a logic probe and the Unibus pinout (for the > terminator slot) and see which grant(s) is being asserted at the > terminator, if any. IIRC, the grants are active _high_, unlike most > Unibus signals. Check the NPG, BG4, BG5, BG6 and BG7 signals at the M9302 > terminator > > -tony > > Finally got a chance to do this; I hooked my logic analyzer to all the grant signals on the last unibus slot and BG6 is held high constantly, the others seem to be OK. I've confirmed that these are supposed to be active high. Now to figure out what's raising the signal... - Josh From shumaker at att.net Fri Aug 14 10:15:05 2009 From: shumaker at att.net (shumaker at att.net) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:15:05 +0000 Subject: Late-Summer cleaning! In-Reply-To: <4A84CF27.20406@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <081420091515.2903.4A857F76000EB2FA00000B5722216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C@att.net> Interesting (and desirable) set of toys.. Recognizing your reluctance to ship, are you in a position in which you could hand over items to something like UPS or C&F and let them pack it up? *really* interested in the Pet 8032! s shumaker -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Josh Dersch > > So about 5 months ago I converted some unused attic space into storage > and moved a bunch of my computer collection up there (not quite enough > to bring down the ceiling, but close :)). Since then I haven't touched > most of it, which made me realize I'm just hoarding this stuff for no > good reason. So I'm looking to get rid of it. > > I'll be listing this stuff on the VCM forums as well. Stuff is free > unless otherwise noted. Stuff is As-Is. I'm trying to be as accurate > as possible here, if you need more clarification feel free to ask. > PICKUP ONLY in the Seattle, WA area (I live about 15 mi north of > Seattle). I'm happy to drive out a ways (say, 2-3 hours) to meet you > halfway if that helps. I will not ship. (I suck at it, and I just > don't have the time.) > > Thanks, > Josh > > The Stuff! > ---------- > > Computers: > --------------- > > - 2x Compaq Portable. Neither work, but enough parts between the two to > build one working machine. > - TRS-80 Model II with 8" drive expansion box (with 2 drives > populated). I have M16 upgrade cards that should work with it. Works, > but could use a cap kit. > > - HP-1000 E-Series. Needs power supply repair, bare system with just > the main system planar/motherboard and front panel (which does work, > last I tested it.) > > - Commodore PET 8032 and 4032. One 4040 drive. Cabling, should you > need it. (4032 had some parts scavenged from the system board.) > - HP 9000/236 (works, but floppy controller is not happy) > - SGI Personal Iris 4D/35. Does not power up, slightly dirty. I have > some RAM for it. Otherwise complete. > - Misc Macintosh II/IIx systems. Very dirty, do not power up. > (Possibly just need new PRAM batteries.) > - Misc Macintosh Portables. Some power up (if a new battery is in > place) but have lines missing from LCDs or other issues. None have > working hard drives. (Sorry.) > - HP C100/9000 (PA-RISC). Works, to the best of my knowledge. > - Sun Ultra Enterprise II. 2xUltraSparc IIi (233Mhz?). 512mb ram. > - DEC MicroVax II boardset w/16mb ram. > - DEC MicroVax I boardset. > > > Monitors: > --------- > - Commodore 1702. Works. > - Amdek Color II. Works. > - Apple II color. Works. > - NeXT 17" and 21" color displays. 21" is a bit beat up. > > > Misc: > ----- > - Beehive terminal. (I believe it is a Super Bee) No keyboard. Needs > repair. 8008 CPU! > - HP LaserJet 5P. Works great, relatively new toner cartridge. Missing > rear-side panels. > - 2x Teletype M43 for repair (both power up but print head does not > move). Need new ribbons (of course.) > - Various SCSI enclosures (full and half-height...) > > Whew, that's it. Again, ask if there are any questions, and no, > honestly, please no, I can't ship any of this. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 15:05:58 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:05:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: Getting started with Transputers In-Reply-To: <4A84B487.7020603@mail.msu.edu> from "Josh Dersch" at Aug 13, 9 05:49:11 pm Message-ID: [Bosch? Transputer board] > The only Inmos chip on the board appears to be the Transputer chip > itself (A T800). There's a fair amount of TTL stuff, a couple of GALs, > four 256kbit RAM chips, an AMD 9513, and then the A/D stuff. Given there are no EPROMs/ROMs, I assume the transputer runs its internal bootstrap code -- which boots it from a trasnputer link. And since there's no link adapter chip on the board (to make one from TTL would be plain crazy IMHO), I think it's safe to assume this board worked with some external host adapter. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 15:07:38 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:07:38 +0100 (BST) Subject: Programming 68764s In-Reply-To: <736810479.12946801250203378586.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> from "Dan Roganti" at Aug 13, 9 10:42:58 pm Message-ID: > I love the smell of ozone in the morning, it makes for an exhilarating day :) Round here it noramlly means there's significant corona discharge from an EHT supply and that I'll probably be spending first part of the day replacing (or kludging up) a flyback trasnformer or similar. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 15:13:24 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:13:24 +0100 (BST) Subject: Late-Summer cleaning! In-Reply-To: <4A84CF27.20406@mail.msu.edu> from "Josh Dersch" at Aug 13, 9 07:42:47 pm Message-ID: > PICKUP ONLY in the Seattle, WA area (I live about 15 mi north of > Seattle). I'm happy to drive out a ways (say, 2-3 hours) to meet you Why can't things like this be near London (England)? :-) > - HP 9000/236 (works, but floppy controller is not happy) The real reason for my reply, for the benefit of whoever rescuses this fine machine. The floppy controller PCB contains a little buffer RAM, 256 bytes. It's made of either 256*4 or 1K*4 SRAM chips, in the latter case 2 of the address pins are tied to ground so that only 256 locations are used. Using 1K chips seems ot be more common, and, you guessed it, they're 2114s. I've fixed a number of 9826s and 9836s by replacing those RAMs. If that doesn;t do it, I have scheamtics... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 15:17:05 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:17:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: PDP 11/40 Unibus termination query... In-Reply-To: <4A851238.8020101@mail.msu.edu> from "Josh Dersch" at Aug 14, 9 00:28:56 am Message-ID: > > What I would do next is grab a logic probe and the Unibus pinout (for the > > terminator slot) and see which grant(s) is being asserted at the > > terminator, if any. IIRC, the grants are active _high_, unlike most > > Unibus signals. Check the NPG, BG4, BG5, BG6 and BG7 signals at the M9302 > > terminator > > > > -tony > > > > > Finally got a chance to do this; I hooked my logic analyzer to all the > grant signals on the last unibus slot and BG6 is held high constantly, Rememebr a floating signal will appear as high. Also, if there's a device that uses BG6 and the BG6 is open between the CPU and that devices, thenBG6 In on said device will appear high, so the device logic wil faithfully pass on the grant and set BG6 Out high. > the others seem to be OK. I've confirmed that these are supposed to be > active high. Now to figure out what's raising the signal... First check it's not stuck high at the processor end (this could be a fault with the rbitration logic or similar). Then I guess you do a half-split. Check it at a slot midway along the backplane, and move in the apropriate direction until you find what's causing it. -tony From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Aug 14 15:43:41 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Late-Summer cleaning! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote: >> PICKUP ONLY in the Seattle, WA area (I live about 15 mi north of >> Seattle). I'm happy to drive out a ways (say, 2-3 hours) to meet you > > Why can't things like this be near London (England)? :-) > Because they're near me, silly. :) >> - HP 9000/236 (works, but floppy controller is not happy) > > The real reason for my reply, for the benefit of whoever rescuses this > fine machine. > > The floppy controller PCB contains a little buffer RAM, 256 bytes. It's > made of either 256*4 or 1K*4 SRAM chips, in the latter case 2 of the > address pins are tied to ground so that only 256 locations are used. > Using 1K chips seems ot be more common, and, you guessed it, they're > 2114s. I've fixed a number of 9826s and 9836s by replacing those RAMs. > I've emailed the gent about the haul - I haven't heard back yet. Someone may well have beat me to it. No biggie as long as it's rescued. Thanks for the heads up (for whomever ends up with this stuff) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 14 16:12:33 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:12:33 -0700 Subject: PDP 11/40 Unibus termination query... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A85D341.5020400@mail.msu.edu> Tony Duell wrote: >>> What I would do next is grab a logic probe and the Unibus pinout (for the >>> terminator slot) and see which grant(s) is being asserted at the >>> terminator, if any. IIRC, the grants are active _high_, unlike most >>> Unibus signals. Check the NPG, BG4, BG5, BG6 and BG7 signals at the M9302 >>> terminator >>> >>> -tony >>> >>> >>> >> Finally got a chance to do this; I hooked my logic analyzer to all the >> grant signals on the last unibus slot and BG6 is held high constantly, >> > > Rememebr a floating signal will appear as high. Also, if there's a device > that uses BG6 and the BG6 is open between the CPU and that devices, > thenBG6 In on said device will appear high, so the device logic wil > faithfully pass on the grant and set BG6 Out high. > > >> the others seem to be OK. I've confirmed that these are supposed to be >> active high. Now to figure out what's raising the signal... >> > > First check it's not stuck high at the processor end (this could be a > fault with the rbitration logic or similar). > > Then I guess you do a half-split. Check it at a slot midway along the > backplane, and move in the apropriate direction until you find what's > causing it. > I disconnected 4-slot the UNIBUS backplane and just stuck the terminator in A/B of slot 9 of the CPU backplane, and removed the SLU from the SPC slot. I got the same readings there. I was fairly sure that it's not the processor -- I make this supposition (and please don't get mad, Tony :)) because I have a spare 11/40 set and they both exhibit the exact same behavior when swapped around . Then I double-checked the wiring for BG6 and the four wires are not continuous, if I'm reading the wirelist correctly there's supposed to be a connection from D07F2->F03R2->F03V2->D09M2. The connection between F03R2 and F03V2 is nonexistent (no evidence of a wire at all). I built a crude jumper (I need to get a wirewrap tool) and powered it up... and it works! My God it works! Ha ha ah ahhah a hahahhaa! Thanks for all the help, Tony (and everyone else too!) Now to see if I can get the RL02 to boot something. :) - Josh > -tony > > > From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 14 16:35:57 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:35:57 -0700 Subject: PDP 11/40 Unibus termination query... Message-ID: <4A85D8BD.4050609@mail.msu.edu> Tony Duell wrote: >>> What I would do next is grab a logic probe and the Unibus pinout (for the >>> terminator slot) and see which grant(s) is being asserted at the >>> terminator, if any. IIRC, the grants are active _high_, unlike most >>> Unibus signals. Check the NPG, BG4, BG5, BG6 and BG7 signals at the M9302 >>> terminator >>> >>> -tony >>> >>> >>> >> Finally got a chance to do this; I hooked my logic analyzer to all the >> grant signals on the last unibus slot and BG6 is held high constantly, >> > > Rememebr a floating signal will appear as high. Also, if there's a device > that uses BG6 and the BG6 is open between the CPU and that devices, > thenBG6 In on said device will appear high, so the device logic wil > faithfully pass on the grant and set BG6 Out high. > > >> the others seem to be OK. I've confirmed that these are supposed to be >> active high. Now to figure out what's raising the signal... >> > > First check it's not stuck high at the processor end (this could be a > fault with the rbitration logic or similar). > > Then I guess you do a half-split. Check it at a slot midway along the > backplane, and move in the apropriate direction until you find what's > causing it. > I disconnected 4-slot the UNIBUS backplane and just stuck the terminator in A/B of slot 9 of the CPU backplane, and removed the SLU from the SPC slot. I got the same readings there. I was fairly sure that it's not the processor -- I make this supposition (and please don't get mad, Tony :)) because I have a spare 11/40 set and they both exhibit the exact same behavior when swapped around . Then I double-checked the wiring for BG6 and the four wires are not continuous, if I'm reading the wirelist correctly there's supposed to be a connection from D07F2->F03R2->F03V2->D09M2. The connection between F03R2 and F03V2 is nonexistent (no evidence of a wire at all). I built a crude jumper (I need to get a wirewrap tool) and powered it up... and it works! My God it works! Ha ha ah ahhah a hahahhaa! Thanks for all the help, Tony (and everyone else too!) Now to see if I can get the RL02 to boot something. :) - Josh > -tony > > > From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 17:46:53 2009 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:46:53 -0700 Subject: Looking for TK-50 (and a few TK-70) tapes Message-ID: Hi folks, Does anyone have any TK-50 (CompacTape) tapes that they'd be willing to let go of? I need maybe six to ten of them. I'd also welcome some TK-70 (CompacTape II) tapes, but my need of TK-50s is more pressing. Thanks much! -Seth -- Seth Morabito Union City, CA, USA sethm at loomcom.com From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Fri Aug 14 17:53:22 2009 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for TK-50 (and a few TK-70) tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Seth Morabito wrote: > Does anyone have any TK-50 (CompacTape) tapes that they'd be willing > to let go of? I need maybe six to ten of them. I'd also welcome some > TK-70 (CompacTape II) tapes, but my need of TK-50s is more pressing. I am also looking for a couple of CompactTape II tapes for a TK-70. Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 14 19:08:23 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:08:23 -0700 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... Message-ID: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> Got myself an IBM RS/6000 N40 laptop (made by Tadpole -- looks identical to the Sparcbook 3 externally) and I'm looking for OS media for it. I believe this runs AIX 3.2.5, and that's about it. Currently there's some version of AIX installed (the login prompt just says "3") but of course I don't know any usernames/passwords. (If there's a way to reset the password that doesn't require an AIX OS CD, that would be useful as well...) Thanks, Josh From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 19:37:27 2009 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:37:27 +0100 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... In-Reply-To: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A860347.6000701@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Josh Dersch wrote: > course I don't know any usernames/passwords. (If there's a way to reset > the password that doesn't require an AIX OS CD, that would be useful as > well...) Will Linux read/write the AIX filesystem ? If so take the hard disk out, mount it in a Linux box and edit the password/shadow files. Even if Linux doesn't understand the AIX filesystem, you should also be able to use a disk editing tool to search through the disk looking for the password file and directly edit it. This of course asumes that you have access to a Linux box and that the AIX hard disk is something standard like IDE or SCSI. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 14 20:18:15 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:18:15 -0700 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... In-Reply-To: <4A860347.6000701@aurigae.demon.co.uk> References: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> <4A860347.6000701@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A860CD7.9030903@mail.msu.edu> Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: > Josh Dersch wrote: >> course I don't know any usernames/passwords. (If there's a way to >> reset the password that doesn't require an AIX OS CD, that would be >> useful as well...) > > Will Linux read/write the AIX filesystem ? If so take the hard disk > out, mount it in a Linux box and edit the password/shadow files. > > Even if Linux doesn't understand the AIX filesystem, you should also > be able to use a disk editing tool to search through the disk looking > for the password file and directly edit it. > > This of course asumes that you have access to a Linux box and that the > AIX hard disk is something standard like IDE or SCSI. > It's laptop (2.5") SCSI. I don't have anything that'll talk to those other than the Sparcbook... I suppose I could try the drive in the Sparcbook and boot from a linux/netbsd CD and try to hack the password files that way... Josh > Cheers. > > Phill. > From christian_liendo at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 20:32:00 2009 From: christian_liendo at yahoo.com (Christian Liendo) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Anyone have Valdocs software for the Epson QX-10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <45155.51816.qm@web112223.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> My friend is in need of the Valdocs software for the Epson QX-10, he is trying to get it to run before VCF East 6.0 He tried to use the images from this site, but they seem to have errors and don't work. http://electrickery.xs4all.nl/comp/qx10/disklibrary.html Any help would be appreciated From ploopster at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 20:53:47 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:53:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... In-Reply-To: <4A860CD7.9030903@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> <4A860347.6000701@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4A860CD7.9030903@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A86152B.9030506@gmail.com> Josh Dersch wrote: >> This of course asumes that you have access to a Linux box and that the >> AIX hard disk is something standard like IDE or SCSI. >> > It's laptop (2.5") SCSI. I don't have anything that'll talk to those > other than the Sparcbook... I suppose I could try the drive in the > Sparcbook and boot from a linux/netbsd CD and try to hack the password > files that way... Can't pretty much any SCSI controller talk to that drive, given the proper cable? Peace... Sridhar From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Fri Aug 14 20:57:02 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:57:02 -0700 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... In-Reply-To: <4A86152B.9030506@gmail.com> References: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> <4A860347.6000701@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4A860CD7.9030903@mail.msu.edu> <4A86152B.9030506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A8615EE.7040605@mail.msu.edu> Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > Josh Dersch wrote: >>> This of course asumes that you have access to a Linux box and that >>> the AIX hard disk is something standard like IDE or SCSI. >>> >> It's laptop (2.5") SCSI. I don't have anything that'll talk to those >> other than the Sparcbook... I suppose I could try the drive in the >> Sparcbook and boot from a linux/netbsd CD and try to hack the >> password files that way... > > Can't pretty much any SCSI controller talk to that drive, given the > proper cable? Sure, I imagine. I just don't have the right cable (and given that laptop SCSI fell out of fashion a decade or more ago, I'm guessing finding one would be fun), so none of my systems can bridge the gap at the moment. - Josh > > Peace... Sridhar > > From ploopster at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 21:17:14 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:17:14 -0400 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... In-Reply-To: <4A8615EE.7040605@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> <4A860347.6000701@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4A860CD7.9030903@mail.msu.edu> <4A86152B.9030506@gmail.com> <4A8615EE.7040605@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A861AAA.6010900@gmail.com> Josh Dersch wrote: >>> It's laptop (2.5") SCSI. I don't have anything that'll talk to those >>> other than the Sparcbook... I suppose I could try the drive in the >>> Sparcbook and boot from a linux/netbsd CD and try to hack the >>> password files that way... >> >> Can't pretty much any SCSI controller talk to that drive, given the >> proper cable? > > Sure, I imagine. I just don't have the right cable (and given that > laptop SCSI fell out of fashion a decade or more ago, I'm guessing > finding one would be fun), so none of my systems can bridge the gap at > the moment. It's really too bad you're not closer to me. I could break into that machine poste haste. Peace... Sridhar From dave09 at dunfield.com Sat Aug 15 06:37:25 2009 From: dave09 at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:37:25 -0500 Subject: Anyone have Valdocs software for the Epson QX-10 In-Reply-To: <45155.51816.qm@web112223.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <33B7E842431E@dunfield.com> > > My friend is in need of the Valdocs software for the Epson QX-10, he is trying to get it to run > before VCF East 6.0 > > He tried to use the images from this site, but they seem to have errors and don't work. > > http://electrickery.xs4all.nl/comp/qx10/disklibrary.html > > Any help would be appreciated I have QX-10 system disk and Valdocs application disk images on my site. -- dave09 (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Aug 15 08:31:24 2009 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:31:24 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> Message-ID: > From: pinball at telus.net > > dwight elvey wrote: >> >>> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:39:06 -0400 >>> From: ploopster at gmail.com >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: contact lubricant >>> >>> e.stiebler wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> so, after all this cleaning of contacts on old computers, is there >>>> anything really good to put on the contact surface to protect it ? >>>> Grease/Lubricants/etc. ? >>>> >>> The problem with contact lubricants is that they necessarily have to be >>> conductive, so if you get more than a tiny amount on, it's game-over. >>> There are lubricants out there that are designed for this purpose (such >>> as polyphenyl ethers), but they tend to be used for connectors larger >>> than the ones common in computers. Applying them to connectors the size >>> of which are common in computers would be very tricky. Once you get >>> them on there, though, they tend to be very resistant to evaporation and >>> migration. >>> >>> Peace... Sridhar >>> >> >> >> Hi >> >> This is abslutely not true. I use DC#4 and it works great. I is often used >> >> in high voltage applications and an insulator so I doubt it is conductive >> >> in any way. >> >> I posted about experiments I've done while at Intel, years ago. >> >> It improved gold on gold contacts from 10-15 milliohms to less than >> >> 2 milliohms. This all while being non-conductive. >> >> Dwight >> >> > We use DC#4 on our classic computerized (to stay on topic) pinball games, and we find too that contact resistance appears to drop after application. We are dealing with medium current (6 - 15A) through regular Molex pins and the connectors are noticably cooler after a dab of DC#4 is added. > > We apply it to connectors and plugs and the results are longer life and reduced insertion/extraction resistance as well. > > I have searched for documents from Dow Corning to support this as I do recall seeing something to that effect when I first found out about this great compound about ten years ago. No luck so far! > > John :-#)# > Hi I thought I might add that it works well on low current connections as well. If anyone has had a ZX81 with the RAM pack well tell you, it is frustrating to use. One little bump and the program you'd been entering is gone. I put some DC#4 on the edge connector and one could drop the computer from 6 inches above the table without having a single bit fail in the RAM. I suspect it could handle a higher drop but feared damaging the case of the computer. ( Sorry that I've not replied sooner. My place is at risk in the Santa Cruz mountains from fire and I've been watching that ) Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 From brian at quarterbyte.com Sat Aug 15 12:26:38 2009 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:26:38 -0700 Subject: vintage equipment sighting Message-ID: <4A868D5E.28487.4125910@brian.quarterbyte.com> OK, this is really geeky, but a DecWriter appears for a few seconds in a short film by Neil Blomkamp, who wrote and directed "District 9." At www.spyfilms.com, click on Directors, Short Films, Neil Blomkamp, and click on Tempbot. At about 1 minute, 15 seconds, Tempbot walks through a room with a DecWriter in it. Where the heck did that come from!? The other short on that page is "Alive in Joburg," the short that District 9 was based on, worth watching to see the germ of the idea. Brian From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Aug 15 12:56:03 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:56:03 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> Message-ID: <4A86F6B3.50006@bitsavers.org> dwight elvey wrote: >>> This is abslutely not true. I use DC#4 and it works great. I is often used >>> >>> in high voltage applications and an insulator so I doubt it is conductive >>> >>> in any way. >>> >>> I posted about experiments I've done while at Intel, years ago. >>> >>> It improved gold on gold contacts from 10-15 milliohms to less than >>> >>> 2 milliohms. This all while being non-conductive. >>> >>> Dwight >>> >>> >> We use DC#4 on our classic computerized (to stay on topic) pinball games, and we find too that contact resistance appears to drop after application. We are dealing with medium current (6 - 15A) through regular Molex pins and the connectors are noticably cooler after a dab of DC#4 is added. >> >> We apply it to connectors and plugs and the results are longer life and reduced insertion/extraction resistance as well. >> >> I have searched for documents from Dow Corning to support this as I do recall seeing something to that effect when I first found out about this great compound about ten years ago. No luck so far! >> >> John :-#)# >> > here's what's in it from the material safety data sheet on Dow's site: http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/products/details.aspx?prod=01903128&type=prod CAS Number Wt % Component Name 68037-74-1 > 60.0 Dimethyl, methyl silicone resin 7631-86-9 7.0 - 13.0 Silica, amorphous 70131-67-8 5.0 - 10.0 Dimethyl siloxane, hydroxy-terminated Description Silicone-based compound, moderate consistency. Lubricant suitable for electrical connectors and joints. And it listed as having high electrical resistance. From evan at snarc.net Sat Aug 15 13:34:28 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:28 -0400 Subject: David Ahl @ VCF East Message-ID: <4A86FFB4.7060007@snarc.net> Dave Ahl was a big hit at VCF East 3.0 (2006), so we're bringing him back this year. He will lecture on the second day (Sunday, Sept. 13) at 1 p.m. on the subject of "Blunders in Personal Computing." http://www.vintage.org/2009/east/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Aug 15 14:12:14 2009 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:12:14 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> Message-ID: <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com> I've been using a product for electricians by Gardner Bender, Ox Gard, same basic silicone grease, but it contains zinc crystals, which are chemically sacrificial (mainly for mixed aluminum and copper) and mechanically pokie on the contact surface. I wonder if the DC4 would be any better with gold plated contacts? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Aug 15 14:20:11 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:20:11 -0600 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > I've been using a product for electricians by Gardner Bender, Ox Gard, > same basic silicone grease, but it contains zinc crystals, which are > chemically sacrificial (mainly for mixed aluminum and copper) and > mechanically pokie on the contact surface. I wonder if the DC4 would be > any better with gold plated contacts? > Speak of the devil, I was looking gold tubes and sockets. http://www.jacmusic.com/ehx/more-info/gold-series.htm From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 15 14:29:47 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:29:47 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, , <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A870CAB.22774.5EAF604@cclist.sydex.com> On 15 Aug 2009 at 12:12, Mike Ford wrote: > I've been using a product for electricians by Gardner Bender, Ox Gard, > same basic silicone grease, but it contains zinc crystals, which are > chemically sacrificial (mainly for mixed aluminum and copper) and > mechanically pokie on the contact surface. I wonder if the DC4 would > be any better with gold plated contacts? Given that it contains silica (a mild abrasive), I don't think I'd use it with microns-thick soft gold plating. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 15 14:35:29 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:35:29 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com>, <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4A870E01.12950.5F02ECF@cclist.sydex.com> On 15 Aug 2009 at 13:20, Ben wrote: > Speak of the devil, I was looking gold tubes and sockets. > > http://www.jacmusic.com/ehx/more-info/gold-series.htm If you want good contacts, solder the tube pins into the socket or dispense with the base entirely and wire to the tube leads directly. After all, sockets are bad news too. In the old days, hacksawing the base between the pins was used to improve high-frequency tube performance. Given that some of the audiophile places even sell gold-plated AC wall outlets, I think there's a reason to be skeptical of some of the claims of the "more gold is good" crowd. --Chuck From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Aug 15 14:47:27 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:47:27 -0600 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A870E01.12950.5F02ECF@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com>, <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A870E01.12950.5F02ECF@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A8710CF.2030708@jetnet.ab.ca> Chuck Guzis wrote: > Given that some of the audiophile places even sell gold-plated AC > wall outlets, I think there's a reason to be skeptical of some of the > claims of the "more gold is good" crowd. I was thinking, did not Radio Shack promote GOLD tubes, and for a short time - lifetime guarantee on the tubes. > --Chuck Now days all they sell up here in Canada - batteries,cell phones and audio connectors. From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 15 18:27:55 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:27:55 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A8710CF.2030708@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A870E01.12950.5F02ECF@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A8710CF.2030708@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4A87447B.3512.6C50D9F@cclist.sydex.com> On 15 Aug 2009 at 13:47, Ben wrote: > I was thinking, did not Radio Shack promote GOLD tubes, and for a > short time - lifetime guarantee on the tubes. Could be--I can't say that I've ever paid much attention to (now newly renamed) "The Shack". It's odd that the site says non-gold socket w/ gold plated tube pins = "perfect option" but non-gold tube pins w/ gold-plated socket = "not so good". You'd think they were trying to sell tubes witth gold- plated pins.... -Chuck From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Aug 15 18:41:01 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:41:01 -0600 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A87447B.3512.6C50D9F@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A870E01.12950.5F02ECF@cclist.sydex.com>, <4A8710CF.2030708@jetnet.ab.ca> <4A87447B.3512.6C50D9F@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <4A87478D.2050402@jetnet.ab.ca> Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 15 Aug 2009 at 13:47, Ben wrote: > >> I was thinking, did not Radio Shack promote GOLD tubes, and for a >> short time - lifetime guarantee on the tubes. > > Could be--I can't say that I've ever paid much attention to (now > newly renamed) "The Shack". Out here, in these 'One horse'[1] towns, that is all you had for any kind of electronic stuff. [1] Well two horses in town :). > It's odd that the site says non-gold socket w/ gold plated tube pins > = "perfect option" but non-gold tube pins w/ gold-plated socket = > "not so good". You'd think they were trying to sell tubes witth gold- > plated pins.... And here I thought it was gold plated grids. :) Still gold is cheaper than the snake oil used in some audio components. Ben. > -Chuck > From lynchaj at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 21:33:56 2009 From: lynchaj at yahoo.com (Andrew Lynch) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:33:56 -0400 Subject: N8VEM floppy CBIOS in the making Message-ID: <81965EB826234725A7A63E80C741E11D@andrewdesktop> Hi! There is good news on the N8VEM home brew computing project. At long last it appears a true floppy drive CBIOS is going to be available soon. One of the builders has been building a FDC CBIOS for the N8VEM SBC and Disk IO board. As of now there is a new floppy disk monitor (FDCMON) which does most everything my original did but much better organized and easier to work on. Just tonight I got a crude disk format feature working so now it can format floppy disks. Also there is a draft CBIOS available on the wiki. It currently supports 720K DSDD 3.5" floppy disks. The plan is to build up the infrastructure with a single model and mode as its core functionality. The 3.5" DSDD is the most straight forward and easiest to make work since it can use the polling mode. Certainly other formats and disks are possible with later revisions. Things appear quite promising. If anyone would like to join in this exciting phase of the project to see the N8VEM SBC boot CP/M 2.2 from a real floppy drive please contact me off list. You can also join the N8VEM mailing list and/or wiki to see what's happening. We are always looking for talented and motivated developers to have fun building home brew computers! Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch PS, please join us on the N8VEM mailing list and wiki. There are several other N8VEM home brew computing PCBs available. More are in development at present. http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem From steven.alan.canning at verizon.net Sat Aug 15 19:39:33 2009 From: steven.alan.canning at verizon.net (Scanning) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:39:33 -0700 Subject: How tough is it ?? References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81C665.8490.153F9D81@cclist.sydex.com> <4A81C9E3.1010509@gmail.com> <4A81DD75.15799.15998436@cclist.sydex.com> <4A8223D5.1020002@gmail.com> <000301ca1b68$6dbfb730$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A830A93.7080808@gmail.com> <000b01ca1bd6$7759de10$0201a8c0@hal9000> <4A83A726.6020303@gmail.com> <000501ca1be3$b84a1770$0201a8c0@hal9000> <766444380908130048y1355ec86o666013c56cfa1e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000701ca1e0a$06479060$0201a8c0@hal9000> If you sent the unsubscribe email, thank you, but it only worked for one day. Once again I am receiving email on the WRONG email address which I'm still trying to shut off. Do you want to try to send another unsubscribe email ? Maybe two times is the lucky number..... This is starting to not be so funny........... Best regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joost van de Griek" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:48 AM Subject: Re: How tough is it ?? > It's not very tough at all. Just follow the instructions to the > unsubscribe email you'll be receiveing right about now. > > And please stop this silliness. > > .tsooJ From roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk Sun Aug 16 13:54:44 2009 From: roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk (Roger Holmes) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:54:44 +0100 Subject: Lisa 2 (Mac XL) Screen showing multiple images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D653F97-A265-482A-ADE8-3235D02057B8@microspot.co.uk> On 7 Aug 2009, at 18:00, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:13:53 -0400 > From: Ray Arachelian > > Roger Holmes wrote: >> I've taken my old Lisa 2 home after a few years disuse and tried it >> out. It currently has MacWorks installed on the hard disc and it >> booted fine but the screen has a problem, it shows three smudged menu >> bars equally spaced down the screen and it also has fairly bright fly >> back lines at about 30 degree angles. >> >> I have the official spares kit for it but never went on the training >> course as I programmed them, someone else who has now left the >> company, repaired them. >> >> Is this likely to be a minor logic fault in the video generation >> circuitry, presumably on the I/O board, or there is a small board in >> the spares kit which handles the high tension for the screen, is it >> more likely to be that? >> >> How do I get at the HT board? Do I have to remove the four screws at >> the front of the CRT? It seems unlikely Apple would have made >> engineers do that but how else can I get into the HT enclosure? > Unplug all cables from the back. > Unlock the back panel by twisting the two screw locks, and pull it > down. > Next find the two thumb indentations under the Lisa display in the > front, push up and remove the front panel. > Next remove the top of the case. > > You'll find the analog card right behind the CRT. It's accessible > from > the top. > > You can crush a small bit of cardboard - a small crumpled slice of one > of those fall out subscription cards from magazines will work nicely. > > Reconnect the power & mouse. > > In the front, there's a small power cut off switch around where the > thumb indentation on the front of the case is, jam the bit cardboard > in > there. There's another one in the back near where one of the thumb > screw locks is. Doing so will allow you to turn the Lisa on with the > case off and adjust the pots on the analog board. > > If you've had the screen modification kit (ROM version will show as > 3A/88 or 3A/A8), you may have a transformer between the analog board > and > the CRT. Perhaps this is related to the issue. > > Problems could be anywhere from the VS ROM on the I/O board, or the > signals from the I/O board going out through the motherboard to the > analogboard, and also in the power supply. > > Before you do much else, I'd disconnect the I/O board, and motherboard > and clean out the contacts. Ditto for the power supply. Usual > anti-static precautions apply to the card cage/motherboard. > After you do that, and whatever you've used to clean the contacts is > dry > and clean, play with the pots on the analog board (I've had good luck > with DeOxit, other stuff works too, as does a rubber eraser - but > caution there as these can cause static buildup and might scrape the > contacts off if they're worn.) > > The pots on the analog board are usually glued down so note their > position before touching them, and be careful not to crack them, or > you'll have yet another part to replace. :-) wiggling them around > with > a screw driver gently is best - if you can find a plastic tipped > one, so > much the better, or if not shave down a plastic knife into the shape > of > a flathead screwdriver so you don't electrocute yourself, or short > something out by accident. (I've personally used metal ones and have > been careful, so YMMV.) > > If it's not a 2/10 (if it has an external parallel port on the > motherboard) make sure it no longer has the AA NiCad batteries, if it > does and they've leaked, they could have damaged the I/O board. > > Usual warnings about electrocution and causing damage to the Lisa > through shorts apply, but you sound like you know what you're doing so > I'll spare the usual broiler plate babble about the dangers of > touching > the wrong items while the machine is powered on and frying yourself, > etc. > > :) > > Have fun. Thank, I now have a fairly solid picture. For a while I thought I had zapped it with static as I was getting random patterns on the screen and no disk activity. I cleaned all the edge connectors twice, swapped the two RAM boards and gave it one last try and it started working again. The machine is just loaded with Mac OS, MacPaint and MacWrite. I'll try out the floppy drive next, if it works I'll probably load the Lisa OS and all the Apps. I have the full set of about ten manuals with the floppy disks in the back, I hope they are readable. Not that I really used Lisa OS, I used the development environment to write software, first for Lisa and later for Mac. In the early days there didn't seem to be any libraries for doing things like menus and I even wrote the code to save the original pixels then draw a pull down menu and do the highlighting as the mouse moved down the menu. Apple supplied QuickDraw and the memory management system and the debugger. I think there was a 3D library which was useless so we wrote our own, including hidden line removal, both on screen and for output to pen plotters hung off one of the serial ports or sometimes off a parallel card. Was there ever any other interface cards which fitted into the three slots? I suppose I might leave Mac OS on it and load up MacWrite and MacPlot (which I wrote) or even an early MacDraft (for which we were European distributors and which I still maintain). Maybe I will put Lisa OS on the other Lisa when I retrieve it from my brother's shop where I had it running stock control, reading from a bar code reader and controlling a till (cash register) drawer and printing receipts to an Apple dot matrix printer until the whole system was retired. Incidentally it replaced an Apple /// doing the same job using a floppy auto-changer with five 1.2MB floppy disks in it instead of a hard drive. The bar code reader was a one bit input device originally hooked up to an Apple ][ but re-connected to parallel cards on the /// and then the Lisa and the device driver re-written. Roger Holmes. > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Aug 16 15:39:04 2009 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:39:04 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com> <4A81ACBA.1030700@gmail.com> <4A849970.4060003@telus.net> <4A87088E.3090507@socal.rr.com> <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4A886E68.4080206@socal.rr.com> Ben wrote: > Mike Ford wrote: >> I've been using a product for electricians by Gardner Bender, Ox Gard, >> same basic silicone grease, but it contains zinc crystals, which are >> chemically sacrificial (mainly for mixed aluminum and copper) and >> mechanically pokie on the contact surface. I wonder if the DC4 would >> be any better with gold plated contacts? >> > Speak of the devil, I was looking gold tubes and sockets. > > http://www.jacmusic.com/ehx/more-info/gold-series.htm > I believe the product they are talking about is Cool Amp, made for high current switching applications. "best described as a mixture of silicon grease and very fine silver powder." I don't think I would use it on tubes, but the non conductive stuff I would think should be fine, BUT in the ultra non science world of tube audio all bets are off. ;) ************ The Silica in the DC4 could that be to absorb moisture? From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Sun Aug 16 15:56:37 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:56:37 -0400 Subject: Looking for TK-50 (and a few TK-70) tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A887285.70504@compsys.to> >Mike Loewen wrote: > >On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Seth Morabito wrote: > >> Does anyone have any TK-50 (CompacTape) tapes that they'd be willing >> to let go of? I need maybe six to ten of them. I'd also welcome some >> TK-70 (CompacTape II) tapes, but my need of TK-50s is more pressing. > > I am also looking for a couple of CompactTape II tapes for a TK-70. I have both TK50 and TK70 media. All but 2 of the TK70 media were formerly TK50 media, bulk erased, then initialized in a TK70 drive. I have used at least 30 of these media as backup tapes with 256 MB of data files (8 * 32 MB each) and they still verify correctly after 5 years. Over 10 years ago, Memorex had a site with the physical and magnetic characteristics of most DLT tapes. The CompacTape (TK50) and the CompacTape II (TK70) were identical in all respects as far as I could understand, except for 2 items: (a) CompacTape II name was in blue and CompacTape name was brown (b) CompacTape II cost significantly more than CompacTape Just my experience with these media. By now, most of the media have been initialized as TK70, so a bulk erase would be required before they can be used again as TK50. As for availability, shipping might be high since I am in Toronto, Ontario. Also, US customs might want their cut. Let me know if you can't find some CompacTape in the US. Jerome Fine From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 16 16:08:39 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:08:39 -0700 Subject: contact lubricant In-Reply-To: <4A886E68.4080206@socal.rr.com> References: <4A81A912.9040409@e-bbes.com>, <4A870A6B.2060304@jetnet.ab.ca>, <4A886E68.4080206@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A887557.27714.B6BD596@cclist.sydex.com> On 16 Aug 2009 at 13:39, Mike Ford wrote: > I believe the product they are talking about is Cool Amp, made for > high current switching applications. > > "best described as a mixture of silicon grease and very fine silver > powder." No--I've got a jar of Cool-Amp right here. It's a dry powder made up of (no trade secret) silver chloride, calcium carbonate (chalk) and sodium chloride (table salt). It works by laying down a *very* thin layer of silver over a more active metal (usually copper) by ion exchange (metallic silver is deposited out of solution in exchange for copper going into solution). The reaction stops essentially when a one-molecule thick layer of silver has been deposited. You can see the same phenomenon without shelling out $$$ for Cool-Amp by placing a clean nail in a solution of copper sulfate (blue vitriol). Copper will be deposited onto the surface of the nail. You apply Cool-Amp powder with a wet rag and rub until the silver appears. Since the layer is so thin, it will wear or tarnish away (via atmospheric sulfur) fairly quickly, so it must be replenished periodically. It's no substitute for real silver plating. No lubricants whatsoever--you wash any reside off before putting the object back into service. The stuff is fairly gritty, so I suspect there's a mild abrasive such as silica in the mix. I think that Cool-Amp may have changed their formulation over the years from silver-nitrate formula. --Chuck From halarewich at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 17:09:39 2009 From: halarewich at gmail.com (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:09:39 -0700 Subject: Looking for TK-50 (and a few TK-70) tapes In-Reply-To: <4A887285.70504@compsys.to> References: <4A887285.70504@compsys.to> Message-ID: <6d6501090908161509t79ad9052kdb88a06aec2f1ecc@mail.gmail.com> here is a place selling new tk70 tapes http://msrcco.com/index.tpl?SID=1148506821770203&NG_view=9&NG_relation_ID=10866&ng_cat_id=143&gclid=CJ-IltOTqZwCFRIcawodtx1-jg On 8/16/09, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > >Mike Loewen wrote: > > >On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Seth Morabito wrote: >> >> Does anyone have any TK-50 (CompacTape) tapes that they'd be willing >>> to let go of? I need maybe six to ten of them. I'd also welcome some >>> TK-70 (CompacTape II) tapes, but my need of TK-50s is more pressing. >>> >> >> I am also looking for a couple of CompactTape II tapes for a TK-70. >> > > I have both TK50 and TK70 media. All but 2 of the TK70 media were > formerly TK50 media, bulk erased, then initialized in a TK70 drive. I have > used at least 30 of these media as backup tapes with 256 MB of data > files (8 * 32 MB each) and they still verify correctly after 5 years. > > Over 10 years ago, Memorex had a site with the physical and magnetic > characteristics of most DLT tapes. The CompacTape (TK50) and the > CompacTape II (TK70) were identical in all respects as far as I could > understand, except for 2 items: > (a) CompacTape II name was in blue and CompacTape name was brown > (b) CompacTape II cost significantly more than CompacTape > > Just my experience with these media. > > By now, most of the media have been initialized as TK70, so a bulk erase > would be required before they can be used again as TK50. > > As for availability, shipping might be high since I am in Toronto, Ontario. > Also, US customs might want their cut. > > Let me know if you can't find some CompacTape in the US. > > Jerome Fine > From starbase89 at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 19:06:38 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:06:38 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> Hey. I picked up a freebie CBM/PET 8032 system with dual disk drive and Z80 board a few weeks ago. It didn't power up. I put it on my workbench and opened "the hood" to suddenly find out that the CRT was not secure, because it hit my workbench neck first, and broke the clear glass at the end of the tube. I was wondering if it is possible to find a replacement tube. Could I somehow (on a really long shot) get a same sized CRT from a black&white TV to fit inside and work? Any advice or suggestions very appreciated. Thanks Joe Giliberti From cube1 at charter.net Sun Aug 16 20:40:04 2009 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:40:04 -0500 Subject: Fwd: FW: P390/500 to give away - in Israel Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20090816203913.03c1c780@cirithi> FYI, a posting recently to IBM-MAIN... I have no personal knowledge of the individual and the machine. Jay -----Original Message----- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN at bama.ua.edu] On >Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen >Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:42 PM >To: IBM-MAIN at bama.ua.edu >Subject: P390/500 to give away - in Israel > >It was working before I put it in storage a few years ago. > >-- >Binyamin Dissen >http://www.dissensoftware.com > >Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel > > >Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, >you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. > >I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, >especially those from irresponsible companies. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to listserv at bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1 at charter.net From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 10:20:03 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Anyone have Valdocs software for the Epson QX-10 In-Reply-To: <33B7E842431E@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <490789.33065.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I may have the Valdox images also. Surely Dave's are functional though. I may aslo have the Titan 8088 coprocessor drivers, but I can't swear to it. If interested, drop me a line. You'll need to be patient though (assuming I have them). Located on a windows h/d, and at this point it'll take a bit of work to extract them. Don't ask for details. Oi. From ray at arachelian.com Mon Aug 17 06:23:01 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:23:01 -0400 Subject: Lisa 2 (Mac XL) Screen showing multiple images In-Reply-To: <8D653F97-A265-482A-ADE8-3235D02057B8@microspot.co.uk> References: <8D653F97-A265-482A-ADE8-3235D02057B8@microspot.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A893D95.9040100@arachelian.com> Roger Holmes wrote: > Was there ever any other interface cards which fitted into the three > slots? The Dual Parallel card is the most common one. There was a quad port serial for use with Xenix There was the SunRem SCSI card, which sometimes was attached to an actual SCSI card (that would eat up two slots worth of space) but would only work for Macworks There was some sort of network card for it as well, but that never made it, and yes, with MacWorks you can use LocalTalk on serial port B instead. There may have been others. One guy has some strange 3 port Parallel Card, but no drivers for it. > > I suppose I might leave Mac OS on it and load up MacWrite and MacPlot > (which I wrote) or even an early MacDraft (for which we were European > distributors and which I still maintain). Maybe I will put Lisa OS on > the other Lisa when I retrieve it from my brother's shop where I had > it running stock control, reading from a bar code reader and > controlling a till (cash register) drawer and printing receipts to an > Apple dot matrix printer until the whole system was retired. > Incidentally it replaced an Apple /// doing the same job using a > floppy auto-changer with five 1.2MB floppy disks in it instead of a > hard drive. The bar code reader was a one bit input device originally > hooked up to an Apple ][ but re-connected to parallel cards on the /// > and then the Lisa and the device driver re-written. You could always split the hard drive in half and use the environments window to switch between Lisa Office and MacWorks if you want both. Did you write the bar code driver yourself? Was it for MacOS or Lisa Office System? From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Aug 17 07:56:44 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:56:44 -0300 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement References: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> > was wondering if it is possible to find a replacement tube. Could I > somehow > (on a really long shot) get a same sized CRT from a black&white TV to fit > inside and work? **any** tube that fits in place will work. Believe me. You can use one from a B&W tv or a green phospor (or ambar, or whatever) computer monitor. From christian_liendo at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 08:18:31 2009 From: christian_liendo at yahoo.com (Christian Liendo) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Anyone have Valdocs software for the Epson QX-10 In-Reply-To: <490789.33065.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <183255.63587.qm@web112206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks to everyone as multiple people contacted me about the ValDocs.. I am going to try Mr. Dunfield 1st and then contact people off list if it doesn't work. Again thanks to everyone From starbase89 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 08:41:44 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:41:44 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> References: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908170641x585ed6f2tc955323a18d0c27@mail.gmail.com> Awesome. I thought it was a long shot, but I had heard of something similar having been done before. I got it from a guy in Pennsylvania, who also donated a Cromemco Z2-H and some homebrew stuff toward the MARCH museum. As far as my PET, the only sign of life I can see is the illumination of an LED on the board. In the interests of troubleshooting, I have removed the z80 board and put the 6502 back in its socket. Does anyone have a PDF of some type of service manual? It could be helpful. Thanks everyone! Joe Giliberti On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Alexandre Souza < alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> wrote: > was wondering if it is possible to find a replacement tube. Could I somehow >> (on a really long shot) get a same sized CRT from a black&white TV to fit >> inside and work? >> > > **any** tube that fits in place will work. Believe me. You can use one > from a B&W tv or a green phospor (or ambar, or whatever) computer monitor. > > From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Aug 17 09:53:26 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:53:26 -0300 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement References: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> <2b1f1f550908170641x585ed6f2tc955323a18d0c27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <240101ca1f4a$8870df60$a24419bb@desktaba> > As far as my PET, the only sign of life I can see is the illumination of > an > LED on the board. In the interests of troubleshooting, I have removed the > z80 board and put the 6502 back in its socket. Does anyone have a PDF of > some type of service manual? It could be helpful. I'm pretty sure google is your friend :) And with the service manual, maybe you can get the composite video line that goes to the monitor and show it up on a tv or external composite monitor :o) From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 10:04:39 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:04:39 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <240101ca1f4a$8870df60$a24419bb@desktaba> References: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> <2b1f1f550908170641x585ed6f2tc955323a18d0c27@mail.gmail.com> <240101ca1f4a$8870df60$a24419bb@desktaba> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: >> As far as my PET, the only sign of life I can see is the illumination of >> an >> LED on the board. In the interests of troubleshooting, I have removed the >> z80 board and put the 6502 back in its socket. Does anyone have a PDF of >> some type of service manual? It could be helpful. > > ? I'm pretty sure google is your friend :) And with the service manual, > maybe you can get the composite video line that goes to the monitor and show > it up on a tv or external composite monitor :o) There are a couple of simple (1-chip) circuits to do that and I've built one of them. I could get legible text on a "standard" B&W security monitor, but I never did get the horizontal hold to be stable. It was good enough to prove the machine was running (I did see the usual ROM splash message in the corner), but it wasn't possible to use the machine in that state. Perhaps you might have better luck, but that was my experience with an external composite monitor adapter circuit a year ago. -ethan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Aug 17 10:05:27 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:05:27 -0600 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> References: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> <1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <4A8971B7.6090909@jetnet.ab.ca> Alexandre Souza wrote: >> was wondering if it is possible to find a replacement tube. Could I >> somehow >> (on a really long shot) get a same sized CRT from a black&white TV to fit >> inside and work? > > **any** tube that fits in place will work. Believe me. You can use > one from a B&W tv or a green phospor (or ambar, or whatever) computer > monitor. Some CRT's can be found here: http://www.magnetosphere.net/ From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Aug 17 10:21:15 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:21:15 -0300 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement References: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com><1e2b01ca1f3a$f7e5fed0$a24419bb@desktaba><2b1f1f550908170641x585ed6f2tc955323a18d0c27@mail.gmail.com><240101ca1f4a$8870df60$a24419bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <249001ca1f4e$fc6136a0$a24419bb@desktaba> There are a couple of simple (1-chip) circuits to do that and I've built one of them. I could get legible text on a "standard" B&W security monitor, but I never did get the horizontal hold to be stable. It was good enough to prove the machine was running (I did see the usual ROM splash message in the corner), but it wasn't possible to use the machine in that state. Perhaps you might have better luck, but that was my experience with an external composite monitor adapter circuit a year ago. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm too busy to download the schematic and take a look right now, but I'm pretty sure the horizontal hold was due to the need of an external inversor in the horizontal sync pulse. From roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk Mon Aug 17 13:04:09 2009 From: roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk (Roger Holmes) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:04:09 +0100 Subject: Lisa 2 (Mac XL) Screen showing multiple images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17C68DB9-62E6-436C-94DF-4F43B3D2992B@microspot.co.uk> > > Roger Holmes wrote: >> Was there ever any other interface cards which fitted into the three >> slots? > The Dual Parallel card is the most common one. > There was a quad port serial for use with Xenix > There was the SunRem SCSI card, which sometimes was attached to an > actual SCSI card (that would eat up two slots worth of space) but > would > only work for Macworks > There was some sort of network card for it as well, but that never > made > it, and yes, with MacWorks you can use LocalTalk on serial port B > instead. > > There may have been others. One guy has some strange 3 port Parallel > Card, but no drivers for it. Thank you. >> I suppose I might leave Mac OS on it and load up MacWrite and MacPlot >> (which I wrote) or even an early MacDraft (for which we were European >> distributors and which I still maintain). Maybe I will put Lisa OS on >> the other Lisa when I retrieve it from my brother's shop where I had >> it running stock control, reading from a bar code reader and >> controlling a till (cash register) drawer and printing receipts to an >> Apple dot matrix printer until the whole system was retired. >> Incidentally it replaced an Apple /// doing the same job using a >> floppy auto-changer with five 1.2MB floppy disks in it instead of a >> hard drive. The bar code reader was a one bit input device originally >> hooked up to an Apple ][ but re-connected to parallel cards on >> the /// >> and then the Lisa and the device driver re-written. > You could always split the hard drive in half and use the environments > window to switch between Lisa Office and MacWorks if you want both. Maybe, though first thought from a 2009 perspective, 10MB does sound somewhat small to split in half, but I suppose its no worse than a 5MB Profile and a lot better than a pair of Twiggy drives. > > > Did you write the bar code driver yourself? Was it for MacOS or Lisa > Office System? Thinking about it, I'm fairly sure it was in MacOS by the time Lisas were cheap enough for my brother's budget. Getting at a one bit input from MacOS was easier too. I think I had it generate an interrupt every time there was a change from black to white or vice-versa and used the system clock to measure the time, and hence the distance assuming a reasonably constant acceleration. It used the guard bars at each end to find the start and end speeds and assumed constant acceleration in between. The decoding algorithm was based on the Apple ][ code which came with the reader, which I disassembled and re- coded, probably in 68k assembler, but maybe Pascal. The Apple ][ code just polled the games port and you had to call it when you expected a bar code to be read. The MacOS version just processed interrupts whenever they occurred and when it found a valid 8 or 13 digit EANA code or a local 6 digit item number of the locally printed labels, it told the host application. I think it generated key events including a carriage return so the app thought the user had typed a bar code in, which they could do by hand if necessary. Roger Holmes. From pontus at update.uu.se Mon Aug 17 13:20:15 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:20:15 +0200 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: <4A3E9678.6060400@update.uu.se> References: <4A3E8332.5080005@update.uu.se> <5758A63A-D1FE-44E0-9891-A84EEC8547F3@neurotica.com> <4A3E9678.6060400@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> Pontus wrote: > Dave McGuire wrote: > >> On Jun 21, 2009, at 3:00 PM, Pontus wrote: >> >>> I have a Vax 11/750 coming my way. It currently has a three RA81 disks >>> in a half-height rack. I feel that the RA81 takes up a little too much >>> room. I would rather run on as small disks as possible (physical size of >>> course). What options do I have? I believe that RA90 would work with >>> existing controllers and I could fit one or two of those into a rack I >>> already have. >>> >> If it has RA81s, and no HSC, then it has a UDA50. Any RA-series >> disks should work, even 5.25" ones like the RA7x series. >> >> -Dave >> >> > That is excellent, I believe I can get some RA72 and RA73 disks with the > 11/750 > > Cheers, > Pontus. > I now have the 11/750 in my house (yay!), it was "fun" to carry up the stairs. Now, I just mounted the RA70 disks I got into their rack and dusted them off. They are mounted four in box similar to the RA90 and has a small front panel. I have only found the Pocket Reference Guide. So I'm wondering: does anyone have a manual? Alternatively, can anyone give me an introduction how to operate the front panel. Can I run diagnostics like on the RA90 ? kind regards, Pontus. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 13:28:13 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:28:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908161706scd717ddlb202f80e44538429@mail.gmail.com> from "Joe Giliberti" at Aug 16, 9 08:06:38 pm Message-ID: > > Hey. > I picked up a freebie CBM/PET 8032 system with dual disk drive and Z80 board > a few weeks ago. It didn't power up. I put it on my workbench and opened > "the hood" to suddenly find out that the CRT was not secure, because it hit > my workbench neck first, and broke the clear glass at the end of the tube. I > was wondering if it is possible to find a replacement tube. Could I somehow > (on a really long shot) get a same sized CRT from a black&white TV to fit > inside and work? Almost certainly yse. Monochrome CRTs are pretty generic. You need to find one with the same diameter neck (there are basically 2 sizes) and same pin base (this, I think, is 'modified B7G' with 7 pins). Get that right, and you'll have a CRT that is pretty much going to be electircally similar. Keep the PET's deflection yoke (don't try to use the one from the TV). -tony From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Mon Aug 17 13:46:01 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:46:01 -0300 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement References: Message-ID: <27f601ca1f6b$730c2d20$a24419bb@desktaba> > Keep the PET's deflection yoke (don't try to use the one from the TV). Great tip Tony! I forgot to tell it myself! From starbase89 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 13:57:37 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:57:37 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <27f601ca1f6b$730c2d20$a24419bb@desktaba> References: <27f601ca1f6b$730c2d20$a24419bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908171157i4e0c1867rd31f01a98d7daff7@mail.gmail.com> When I get home, I'll see what I can do On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Alexandre Souza < alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> wrote: > Keep the PET's deflection yoke (don't try to use the one from the TV). >> > > Great tip Tony! I forgot to tell it myself! > > From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 14:08:05 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:08:05 -0400 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> References: <4A3E8332.5080005@update.uu.se> <5758A63A-D1FE-44E0-9891-A84EEC8547F3@neurotica.com> <4A3E9678.6060400@update.uu.se> <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Pontus wrote: > I now have the 11/750 in my house (yay!), it was "fun" to carry up the > stairs. That must be a new use of the word "fun" of which I was previously unaware. ;-) > Now, I just mounted the RA70 disks I got into their rack and dusted them > off. They are mounted four in box similar to the RA90 and has a small > front panel. I have only found the Pocket Reference Guide. So I'm > wondering: does anyone have a manual? > > Alternatively, can anyone give me an introduction how to operate the > front panel. Can I run diagnostics like on the RA90 ? I, too, would appreciate any documentation pointers or especially "lessons learned" with RA7X drives. My former SDI experience was all with RA81 drives (starting back when they were $24,000!) but I have a couple of RA70s that I'd love to use either in a BA123 with either a MicroVAX II or a KDJ11, or with my 8300/KDB50 or an 11/750/UDA50. ISTR there were "internal" SDI cables that weren't as sturdy for in-cabinet use. I only have external, heavy, black, rubberized SDI cables. A pointer to where to acquire light-weight SDI cables would be good to have. Thanks, -ethan From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Aug 17 14:10:46 2009 From: arcarlini at iee.org (arcarlini at iee.org) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:10:46 +0100 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <3FF9B8646B5B4A0F8A24B09EEA6C3D10@AntonioPC> cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org wrote: > Now, I just mounted the RA70 disks I got into their rack and > dusted them off. They are mounted four in box similar to the > RA90 and has a small front panel. I have only found the > Pocket Reference Guide. So I'm > wondering: does anyone have a manual? I have this: ora7xsm2.pdf "RA7x Disk Drive Service Manual" I see it's not on Manx so I'll have to try and get it there soon. I'll email it to you in the meantime if you want? Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 14:14:02 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:14:02 +0100 (BST) Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908171157i4e0c1867rd31f01a98d7daff7@mail.gmail.com> from "Joe Giliberti" at Aug 17, 9 02:57:37 pm Message-ID: > > When I get home, I'll see what I can do Basically, the following have to match between the old and new CRTs Deflection angle (almost certainly 90 degrees) Neck diameter Pin base Heater voltage. My experience is that small monochrome CRTs come in 2 classes. Those with a thin neck, modified B7G base (like a 7-pin miniature valve, but with the seal-off tube in the middle) and 12V heater. And those with a thicker neck, B8H base (8 pins in a circle with a plastic keyway thing in the middle around the seal-off tube) and a 6.3V heater. The former is more common in classic computers and also in portable TVs. I have seen a few of the latter in computers, though. So if you get the right base and thus neck diameter, the yoke will fit, the base connector will fit, and the heater voltage will be right. The other electrode voltages (BTW, the pinout seems to be pretty much standardised within a classs) are much less critical. You'll get _something_ on the screen, you may have to tweak things a little to get it perfect. -tony From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Mon Aug 17 14:32:59 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:32:59 +0200 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: <3FF9B8646B5B4A0F8A24B09EEA6C3D10@AntonioPC> References: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> <3FF9B8646B5B4A0F8A24B09EEA6C3D10@AntonioPC> Message-ID: > From: arcarlini at iee.org > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Vax 11/750 disks > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:10:46 +0100 > > cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org wrote: > >> Now, I just mounted the RA70 disks I got into their rack and >> dusted them off. They are mounted four in box similar to the >> RA90 and has a small front panel. I have only found the >> Pocket Reference Guide. So I'm >> wondering: does anyone have a manual? > > I have this: > > ora7xsm2.pdf "RA7x Disk Drive Service Manual" > > I see it's not on Manx so I'll have to try and get it there soon. > > I'll email it to you in the meantime if you want? > > Antonio Just last week I downloaded the following documents: - rsa7xpg2.pdf - osa7xsmc.pdf - osa7xugc.pdf from http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/documents.html My VAX-11/750 has 2 RA81's and a Kennedy 9360 (IIRC, too lazy to check). I want to replace one RA81 with a few RA72's, when I find the time ... too busy with moving stuff. My VAX-11/750 came with 2 UDA50's already installed, so I do not have to worry about the issues when you want to install a second UDA50 (I read that somewhere). Check out the URL, it also has doc on RT11 and RSX11, but I did not check that. There is a lot more to find ...! - Henk. From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Mon Aug 17 14:40:17 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:40:17 -0700 Subject: HP 2000 Timesharing BASIC source Message-ID: <4A89B221.D5146AF2@cs.ubc.ca> A fellow has contacted me about the HP 2116 / 2000 Timesharing BASIC. Apparently he used to work on the software and has some source code listings of the dual-processor 2000 TSB software. I know a couple of people here have, or are interested in, getting a 2000 system going (Jay..). Perhaps the source listing should make it's way to Al, if such a listing is not already archived. Regardless, he would be interested in communicating with others working on 2000 TSB. If anyone is interested I will forward addresses. -------- I had noticed on this web site: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/HP21xx/HP2116CSys/index.html#requests that you were interested in software to run. I noticed some of the memory dumps with BASIC keywords on the page. I'm not sure if I can be all that much help, but I did happen to work on those machines back around 1973-1975 and I have a complete source code listing for the 2116 part of the 2000F timesharing system (which I extensively modified, back then.) I do not know where (I did get copies at one point) the source code listings for the I/O processor (I think it was a 2114) are at, though. Might be in some box, might be thrown away. (The I/O could be rewritten, if necessary. It wouldn't need to support the lineprinter, which it used to support, and a lot of it was wrapped around handling 32 separate user buffers. So even if it is lost to me, it's possible to tinker things without facing a horrible job to do it.) I'm located in Portland Oregon, not far away. By the way, I'm pretty familiar with the internals of it and the 2116 assembly language itself, as I modified the system to include timeshared assembly services and added many commands to the system. It would be very interesting to me to participate in some useful way in getting such a system operational. Not merely out of nostalgia, by the way. HP 2000F BASIC was actually an impressive software design on almost every level. It included some of the very best practices in the numerical approaches used for the transcendentals; practices which are rarely bettered even today. It included matrix operations that were impressive in design. It's performance in terms of users was also impressive -- especially so when one considers the limitations in memory and processor speed and features -- a level that is also very rarely achieved today, even with processors much, much more capable. Much of the kind of combined skill sets that were applied so well in developing a system like this remain rare and rarely understood. Having an operational system would provide a hands-on experience to show others what can be done so well and with so little, and perhaps provide benchmark that others trying their own hands on modern processors may find instructive. I've often wished that I could find a working system to buy and bring up, too. From ray at arachelian.com Mon Aug 17 14:46:38 2009 From: ray at arachelian.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:46:38 -0400 Subject: Lisa 2 (Mac XL) Screen showing multiple images In-Reply-To: <17C68DB9-62E6-436C-94DF-4F43B3D2992B@microspot.co.uk> References: <17C68DB9-62E6-436C-94DF-4F43B3D2992B@microspot.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A89B39E.4030802@arachelian.com> > Maybe, though first thought from a 2009 perspective, 10MB does sound > somewhat small to split in half, but I suppose its no worse than a 5MB > Profile and a lot better than a pair of Twiggy drives. As with anything else, the answer is "depends on what you want to do with it." 5MB is plenty for 7/7 and a few documents. But you won't be able to also fit Lisa Pascal Workshop. >> >> >> Did you write the bar code driver yourself? Was it for MacOS or Lisa >> Office System? > > Thinking about it, I'm fairly sure it was in MacOS by the time Lisas > were cheap enough for my brother's budget. Getting at a one bit input > from MacOS was easier too. I think I had it generate an interrupt > every time there was a change from black to white or vice-versa and > used the system clock to measure the time, and hence the distance > assuming a reasonably constant acceleration. It used the guard bars at > each end to find the start and end speeds and assumed constant > acceleration in between. The decoding algorithm was based on the Apple > ][ code which came with the reader, which I disassembled and re-coded, > probably in 68k assembler, but maybe Pascal. The Apple ][ code just > polled the games port and you had to call it when you expected a bar > code to be read. The MacOS version just processed interrupts whenever > they occurred and when it found a valid 8 or 13 digit EANA code or a > local 6 digit item number of the locally printed labels, it told the > host application. I think it generated key events including a carriage > return so the app thought the user had typed a bar code in, which they > could do by hand if necessary. Very cool. I asked because I wrote some code about 15 years ago to print and scan in barcodes. The application was to track incoming shipments, when a truck arrived. We'd scan in the inventory sheet with a high speed scanner (I think either the library or the scanner was called Kofax or something like that), then my app would assign a barcode ID and print a 2nd copy of the sheet with the barcode on top which was attached to the shipment. Then at every step the bar code was used to track it and people signed it or had someone with a barcode reader scan it in at every step the shipment was seen and had all the items inspected. At the end, once signed and all that, the barcoded page was rescanned in, and all the places and times the document showed up on as well as the first and last scan were stored. So that way if something "fell off the truck", it could be tracked to the last known scan. It was fairly easy to generate the bar codes and print'em out as HP PCL, but much harder to recognize them. I pulled a bunch of tricks and eventually got it to work well enough to be useful. I remember using Code 3 of 9, and having worked it on nothing else but this thing for several weeks, I could read the numeric symbols + start/end just by eye. (I've forgotten them since.) :-) From bob at jfcl.com Mon Aug 17 16:34:33 2009 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:34:33 -0700 Subject: Searching for IBM 1620 software images Message-ID: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> I'd like to find some software images - SPS, FORTRAN, FORTRAN-II, GOTRAN, (gasp) Disk Monitor! - to use with the simh 1620 simulator. Curiously there aren't any 1620 software kits included with simh, and I've searched the web and there just don't seem to be any for that machine, anywhere. It's ironic that simh can simulate a complete 1620 system, including the 1311 disk drives, but there's nothing to run on it. I don't mind writing a little program to massage file formats if what you have isn't in the right format for simh - just let me know. And I don't even mind OCRing and correcting a listing, if you have one and you're willing to scan it. Yes, I know the CHM has a 1620 and a lot of software, but I've talked with them about it and they just aren't ready to release what they have, so that avenue is a non-starter. Thanks, Bob Armstrong From dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu Mon Aug 17 18:11:45 2009 From: dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Probe cases are shipped Message-ID: Thanks to all of you who participated in the logic probe group buy. The cases are now at the post office. Because I overestimated the domestic postage, everyone will see a partial refund in their Paypal accounts by now. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Aug 17 18:56:32 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:56:32 -0700 Subject: Searching for IBM 1620 software images In-Reply-To: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> References: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> Message-ID: <4A89EE30.50603@bitsavers.org> Bob Armstrong wrote: > Yes, I know the CHM has a 1620 and a lot of software, but I've talked with > them about it and they just aren't ready to release what they have Who is this 'them' you were talking to? From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 17 20:19:33 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:19:33 -0700 Subject: Searching for IBM 1620 software images In-Reply-To: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> References: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> Message-ID: <4A8A01A5.26810.1177E2FA@cclist.sydex.com> On 17 Aug 2009 at 14:34, Bob Armstrong wrote: > (gasp) Disk Monitor! - to use with the simh 1620 simulator. Curiously > there aren't any 1620 software kits included with simh, and I've > searched the web and there just don't seem to be any for that machine, > anywhere. It's ironic that simh can simulate a complete 1620 system, > including the 1311 disk drives, but there's nothing to run on it. I've either coded things up in absolute format or used a cross- assembler on the simulator. Much more flexible, even if not authentic. It would be fun to run FORTRAN IID under Monitor, though. Has anyone fixed SIMH so console typewriter output generates the proper sound effects (i.e. sounding like it's going to fly to pieces any second)? --Chuck From starbase89 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 20:43:25 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:43:25 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: References: <2b1f1f550908171157i4e0c1867rd31f01a98d7daff7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908171843s18a15f94wf6ceaa67d98419ae@mail.gmail.com> I extracted the tubes from the TV and PET. The yoke and connectors fit. I have not yet powered it yet. Step by step... On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > When I get home, I'll see what I can do > > Basically, the following have to match between the old and new CRTs > > Deflection angle (almost certainly 90 degrees) > > Neck diameter > > Pin base > > Heater voltage. > > My experience is that small monochrome CRTs come in 2 classes. Those with > a thin neck, modified B7G base (like a 7-pin miniature valve, but with > the seal-off tube in the middle) and 12V heater. And those with a thicker > neck, B8H base (8 pins in a circle with a plastic keyway thing in the > middle around the seal-off tube) and a 6.3V heater. > > The former is more common in classic computers and also in portable TVs. > I have seen a few of the latter in computers, though. > > So if you get the right base and thus neck diameter, the yoke will fit, > the base connector will fit, and the heater voltage will be right. > > The other electrode voltages (BTW, the pinout seems to be pretty much > standardised within a classs) are much less critical. You'll get > _something_ on the screen, you may have to tweak things a little to get > it perfect. > > -tony > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Aug 17 21:08:47 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:08:47 -0600 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908171843s18a15f94wf6ceaa67d98419ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b1f1f550908171157i4e0c1867rd31f01a98d7daff7@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908171843s18a15f94wf6ceaa67d98419ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A8A0D2F.6090106@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe Giliberti wrote: > I extracted the tubes from the TV and PET. The yoke and connectors fit. I > have not yet powered it yet. Step by step... From the other room ... *Put back the TV , my soap's on NOW!* From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Mon Aug 17 21:41:11 2009 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DEC H7874-00 power supply In-Reply-To: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> References: <003901ca1f82$82fbccb0$88f36610$@com> Message-ID: I recently acquired a VAX 4000/300 with a R400X expansion cabinet. The power supply in the main BA440 cabinet is bad, and I'm looking for a replacement. Does anyone have a spare for sale? I've temporarily moved the three functional hard drives (DSSI) from the R400X into the BA440 along with the good power supply to get the system working. A schematic or service manual for the power supply would be useful, as well. Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Aug 17 22:57:27 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:57:27 -0400 Subject: [sparetimegizmos] Probe cases are shipped In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 17, 2009, at 7:11 PM, David Griffith wrote: > Thanks to all of you who participated in the logic probe group > buy. The > cases are now at the post office. Because I overestimated the > domestic > postage, everyone will see a partial refund in their Paypal > accounts by > now. Thanks for the legwork! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From pontus at Update.UU.SE Tue Aug 18 01:16:12 2009 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:16:12 +0200 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: References: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> <3FF9B8646B5B4A0F8A24B09EEA6C3D10@AntonioPC> Message-ID: <20090818061612.GB6601@Update.UU.SE> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:32:59PM +0200, Henk Gooijen wrote: > > Just last week I downloaded the following documents: > - rsa7xpg2.pdf > - osa7xsmc.pdf > - osa7xugc.pdf > from http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/documents.html Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. > My VAX-11/750 has 2 RA81's and a Kennedy 9360 (IIRC, too lazy > to check). I want to replace one RA81 with a few RA72's, when > I find the time ... too busy with moving stuff. I'm going back to where the 750 came from, and there is an RA81 disk still there. It seems very bulky and heavy.. should I get it anyway? > Check out the URL, it also has doc on RT11 and RSX11, but I > did not check that. There is a lot more to find ...! Here I though bitsavers was the authorative source, apparently there is more to find :) Kind Regards, Pontus. From derschjo at mail.msu.edu Tue Aug 18 03:19:12 2009 From: derschjo at mail.msu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:19:12 -0700 Subject: Anyone in the Seattle area have the ability to write an RL02 pack for me? Message-ID: <4A8A6400.607@mail.msu.edu> I have my PDP-11/40 in a state where it should be able to actually boot an OS, but I have no OS media to boot. And VTServer won't work for me -- it requires 192K of RAM as well as EIS, neither of which I have (I have 128K and the basic CPU set.) Anyone nearby Seattle who can put some manner of OS on one of my RL02 packs? Alternately, anyone have RX02 images of a bootable system they can share? (I'm really looking forward to toggling in the RX02 bootstrap, you see...) Thanks as always... Josh From starbase89 at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 09:03:08 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:03:08 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <4A8A0D2F.6090106@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <2b1f1f550908171157i4e0c1867rd31f01a98d7daff7@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908171843s18a15f94wf6ceaa67d98419ae@mail.gmail.com> <4A8A0D2F.6090106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> haha. Its all back together. It still doesn't work. When I switch it on, all I can hear/feel is 60Hz in the area of the transformer. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Ben wrote: > Joe Giliberti wrote: > >> I extracted the tubes from the TV and PET. The yoke and connectors fit. I >> have not yet powered it yet. Step by step... >> > > From the other room ... *Put back the TV , my soap's on NOW!* > > > From wdonzelli at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 10:00:00 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:00:00 -0400 Subject: VT420s, 80 meg packs (update) Message-ID: Demand has been impressive for the packs and stuff, so please bear with me while I ration these things out. Earlier responses get preference. Sorry, I am no longer accepting orders. Please be patient and I will get invoices out soon. -- Will From bobalan at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 18 12:42:18 2009 From: bobalan at sbcglobal.net (Bob Rosenbloom) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Data General disk drive on govliquidation located in OK In-Reply-To: <4A8A6400.607@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <151693.63391.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> See: http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2559664&convertTo=USD Bob From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Tue Aug 18 13:36:27 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:36:27 +0200 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: <20090818061612.GB6601@Update.UU.SE> References: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> <3FF9B8646B5B4A0F8A24B09EEA6C3D10@AntonioPC> <20090818061612.GB6601@Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:16:12 +0200 > From: pontus at Update.UU.SE > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Vax 11/750 disks > > I'm going back to where the 750 came from, and there is an RA81 disk > still there. It seems very bulky and heavy.. should I get it anyway? Heavy? Yes, the RA81 weighs 67 kilos! If it is not too much, I would get the drive (anybody wants a 16-bit RA81? :-)) hook it to the UDA50 and check the contents. Who knows what you find, perhaps VAX-11/750 diags. You can connect a VT220 to the drive (open it and locate the DB-25 connector. Run the diagnostics. Maybe the drive is in better shape than the RA81 you have. Swap and try to get a few euros for the metal of the to-be-scrapped RA81. Or keep them both :-) In the latter case, use the drive sequence cable, so that both drives do not spin up at tyhe same time, but one after the other. Or switch them on in sequence manually. Start-up current is> 10 Amps. > Here I though bitsavers was the authorative source, apparently there > is more to find :) If I need some doc which I do not have stashed somewhere, bitsavers is my #1 spot to look for it. And I contributed a "few inches" too. > Kind Regards, > Pontus. greetz, - Henk. From pontus at update.uu.se Tue Aug 18 14:00:21 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:00:21 +0200 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: References: <4A899F5F.2050804@update.uu.se> <3FF9B8646B5B4A0F8A24B09EEA6C3D10@AntonioPC> Message-ID: <4A8AFA45.4060701@update.uu.se> Henk Gooijen wrote: > Just last week I downloaded the following documents: > - rsa7xpg2.pdf > - osa7xsmc.pdf > - osa7xugc.pdf > from http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/documents.html > I did not find those documents at that link, but I found: - sax05ug1.pdf from http://vt100.net/mirror/mds-199909/cd3/storage/ Which was what I needed. And in reply to your last post, you have convinced me. I will lug the RA81 home :) Kind regards, Pontus. From pontus at update.uu.se Tue Aug 18 14:28:14 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:28:14 +0200 Subject: RA70 stuck platters? [was: Vax 11/750 disks] Message-ID: <4A8B00CE.5010304@update.uu.se> Hi I'm breaking out from my own VAX11/750 thread to ask a question about RA70 disks. I just powered them up and got six out of eight disks (I have two enclosures) to spin up. Two disks took a few tries, but eventually started turning. Pretty good turnout given that these disks has been stored in a damp and cold place. I've read about older disks getting stuck if not used for longer periods. The fix range from gently twisting the disks in your hand to smacking the disks with two hammers to get the platters moving. Does any one have any experience and suggestions on how to get these oldies going? Kind regards, Pontus. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Aug 18 15:15:36 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:15:36 -0400 Subject: RA70 stuck platters? [was: Vax 11/750 disks] In-Reply-To: <4A8B00CE.5010304@update.uu.se> References: <4A8B00CE.5010304@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <294CD11E-7104-470D-AAC6-0DD080F4AC5B@neurotica.com> On Aug 18, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Pontus wrote: > I'm breaking out from my own VAX11/750 thread to ask a question about > RA70 disks. > > I just powered them up and got six out of eight disks (I have two > enclosures) to spin up. Two disks took a few tries, but eventually > started turning. Pretty good turnout given that these disks has been > stored in a damp and cold place. > > I've read about older disks getting stuck if not used for longer > periods. The fix range from gently twisting the disks in your hand to > smacking the disks with two hammers to get the platters moving. > > Does any one have any experience and suggestions on how to get these > oldies going? I do the "twist trick" that you describe above. I've never heard of stuck spindles in an RA7x drive, though. I wonder if the spindle bearing lubricant has turned to glue? -Dave > -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 18 14:53:38 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:53:38 +0100 (BST) Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> from "Joe Giliberti" at Aug 18, 9 10:03:08 am Message-ID: > > haha. > > Its all back together. It still doesn't work. When I switch it on, all I can > hear/feel is 60Hz in the area of the transformer. I'd forget the CRT/monitor section for the moment, and try to get the digital side working. What test gear do you have? I think you can fairly easily find schematics for the 8032. Start by checking the power rail(s?) -- particularly that uyou have 5V to all the logic chips. Make sure the master clock is running. Make sure the CPU is doing something. Does it initialise the 6845 -- check the Vsync and Hsync outputs of that chip to see if they are running at sane frequencies. That should get you started... -tony From starbase89 at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 15:33:51 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:33:51 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> I have a good DMM available, as well as a scope. I just noticed that there are two chips missing, which appear to be ROMs. There are sockets, but no chips. Their location would be toward the back part of the board, to the right. They are the last two in a column (in relation to the back) of similar-sized chips, most of which are direct soldered to the board. I can take a photo if one is needed On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > haha. > > > > Its all back together. It still doesn't work. When I switch it on, all I > can > > hear/feel is 60Hz in the area of the transformer. > > I'd forget the CRT/monitor section for the moment, and try to get the > digital side working. > > What test gear do you have? > > I think you can fairly easily find schematics for the 8032. Start by > checking the power rail(s?) -- particularly that uyou have 5V to all the > logic chips. Make sure the master clock is running. Make sure the CPU is > doing something. Does it initialise the 6845 -- check the Vsync and Hsync > outputs of that chip to see if they are running at sane frequencies. > > That should get you started... > > -tony > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 18 15:35:00 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:35:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: Slidewire lubricant Message-ID: Sort-of a tangent to the 'contact lubricant' thread... I've just bought an HP9125 plotter for my 9100 :-). For those who don't know this device (built entirely from discrete transistors from what I can see), it's basically a calcualtor interface (4 boards of logic) driving a pair of DACs, driving an analogue X-Y plotter. Anyway, the last part has slidewires (essentially long sliding potentiometers) to detect the pen position and provide a feedback signal to the servo circuits. The HP service manual (OK, it's a boardswapper guide, but I read all the information I can find...) says you have to clean said slidewires with special cleaner and then coat them with special slidewire lubricant. Of course I want to make my slidewires last as long as possible, getting replacements is non-trivial :-) Does anyone know what modern product I should use? -tony From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 15:41:00 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:41:00 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Joe Giliberti wrote: > I have a good DMM available, as well as a scope. Good start. > I just noticed that there are two chips missing, which appear to be ROMs. > There are sockets, but no chips. Their location would be toward the back > part of the board, to the right. They are the last two in a column (in > relation to the back) of similar-sized chips, most of which are direct > soldered to the board. I can take a photo if one is needed A stock 8032 has "expansion ROM" sockets - it was common for PET owners to enhance their PETs with after-market firmware. I myself had the PAICS BASIC Toolkit, the Rabbit tape speeder, a very nice enhanced Machine Language Monitor (MICRO-MON?) and I'm blanking on what was in my third ROM socket (BASIC 2.0 had 3 available sockets). It's likely your PET just has no add-on firmware, but I suppose it's possible that it _has_ add-on firmware but is missing two other ROMs, just not as likely. -ethan From ics65 at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 18 17:06:41 2009 From: ics65 at sbcglobal.net (George Wiegand) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:06:41 -0500 Subject: Data General disk drive on govliquidation located in OK References: <151693.63391.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01ca2050$2afd0d20$cfebda45@efficien2csrlx> Anyone plan on bidding on it? Subject: Data General disk drive on govliquidation located in OK > See: > > http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2559664&convertTo=USD > > Bob From starbase89 at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 16:53:52 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:53:52 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> Okay, thanks for clearing that up. First off, I suppose I need to check voltages. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Joe Giliberti > wrote: > > I have a good DMM available, as well as a scope. > > Good start. > > > I just noticed that there are two chips missing, which appear to be ROMs. > > There are sockets, but no chips. Their location would be toward the back > > part of the board, to the right. They are the last two in a column (in > > relation to the back) of similar-sized chips, most of which are direct > > soldered to the board. I can take a photo if one is needed > > A stock 8032 has "expansion ROM" sockets - it was common for PET > owners to enhance their PETs with after-market firmware. I myself had > the PAICS BASIC Toolkit, the Rabbit tape speeder, a very nice enhanced > Machine Language Monitor (MICRO-MON?) and I'm blanking on what was in > my third ROM socket (BASIC 2.0 had 3 available sockets). > > It's likely your PET just has no add-on firmware, but I suppose it's > possible that it _has_ add-on firmware but is missing two other ROMs, > just not as likely. > > -ethan > From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 17:54:00 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:54:00 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Joe Giliberti wrote: > Okay, thanks for clearing that up. > First off, I suppose I need to check voltages. Good place to start. If your PET is mostly working, you are likely to see some form of stationary video garbage when you power it up, or possibly a TIM register dump, rather than the ROM banner telling you what version of BASIC you have and how much RAM. Oh, wait... it's an 8032... in older PETs, the video circuit is TTL and does not require any CPU activity to start displaying the contents of video RAM... yours has a 6545 CRTC "video chip" (similar to what was on the original IBM PC monochrome video card). It does need to be fed some constants from ROM by the CPU at startup, so perhaps you'd see a blank screen unless the CPU was running and able to fetch code from ROM. Check your voltages for sure, especially the 7905 -5VDC regulator near the RAM field. Those 4116s are triple-voltage. Pretty much everything else (except the cassette motor) is +5V-only. I've only seen one ROM chip go bad ever, so if your PET won't fire up far enough to reset the video chip, it's probably either bad RAM or bad address logic or a data or address bus buffer. If you are tracing that far into it, you will probably want that scope set up. -ethan From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Aug 18 17:58:20 2009 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (joe heck) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:58:20 -0400 Subject: 100 Q-bus boards available Message-ID: <4A8B320C.20502@splab.cas.neu.edu> Getting ready to toss 100 boards. No idea of functionality. 11/03, 23, 73 processors, memory, third party boards, serial boards. pickup only in Wrentham, MA FREE Joe Heck From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Tue Aug 18 18:17:22 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:17:22 -0700 Subject: 100 Q-bus boards available References: <4A8B320C.20502@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <4A8B3682.D3ED714E@cs.ubc.ca> joe heck wrote: > > Getting ready to toss 100 boards. No idea of functionality. 11/03, 23, > 73 processors, memory, third party boards, serial boards. > > pickup only in Wrentham, MA FREE .. visions of speeding cars, accidents and a traffic jam on the way into Wrentham, MA. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Aug 18 18:32:38 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Joe Giliberti wrote: > I have a good DMM available, as well as a scope. > > I just noticed that there are two chips missing, which appear to be ROMs. > There are sockets, but no chips. Their location would be toward the back > part of the board, to the right. They are the last two in a column (in > relation to the back) of similar-sized chips, most of which are direct > soldered to the board. I can take a photo if one is needed > PETs have "option ROM" sockets, so it's reasonable to have one with a couple of empty sockets. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! From starbase89 at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 19:14:13 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:14:13 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908181714v2e514a8fge0b7f721c695db83@mail.gmail.com> I just noticed something inside the PET, so just for the moment, voltage is on hold (though related.) There are only two wires coming off the transformer that go to the monitor, and both seem to be 24 gauge. Not big enough, I would think, to bring power to a CRT. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Joe Giliberti > wrote: > > Okay, thanks for clearing that up. > > First off, I suppose I need to check voltages. > > Good place to start. > > If your PET is mostly working, you are likely to see some form of > stationary video garbage when you power it up, or possibly a TIM > register dump, rather than the ROM banner telling you what version of > BASIC you have and how much RAM. Oh, wait... it's an 8032... in older > PETs, the video circuit is TTL and does not require any CPU activity > to start displaying the contents of video RAM... yours has a 6545 CRTC > "video chip" (similar to what was on the original IBM PC monochrome > video card). It does need to be fed some constants from ROM by the > CPU at startup, so perhaps you'd see a blank screen unless the CPU was > running and able to fetch code from ROM. > > Check your voltages for sure, especially the 7905 -5VDC regulator near > the RAM field. Those 4116s are triple-voltage. Pretty much > everything else (except the cassette motor) is +5V-only. > > I've only seen one ROM chip go bad ever, so if your PET won't fire up > far enough to reset the video chip, it's probably either bad RAM or > bad address logic or a data or address bus buffer. If you are tracing > that far into it, you will probably want that scope set up. > > -ethan > From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Aug 18 19:52:01 2009 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (joe heck) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:52:01 -0400 Subject: 100 Q-bus boards available In-Reply-To: <4A8B320C.20502@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <4A8B320C.20502@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <4A8B4CB1.9020608@splab.cas.neu.edu> Already have two takers, Thanks... If both fall through, I'll repost. joe heck wrote: > Getting ready to toss 100 boards. No idea of functionality. 11/03, 23, > 73 processors, memory, third party boards, serial boards. > > pickup only in Wrentham, MA FREE > > Joe Heck > From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 20:39:24 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:39:24 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908181714v2e514a8fge0b7f721c695db83@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181714v2e514a8fge0b7f721c695db83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Joe Giliberti wrote: > I just noticed something inside the PET, so just for the moment, voltage is > on hold (though related.) There are only two wires coming off the > transformer that go to the monitor, and both seem to be 24 gauge. Not big > enough, I would think, to bring power to a CRT. Sure they are... they go to a 7812 to power the entire CRT assembly, and that won't pass more than an amp. -ethan From starbase89 at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 21:00:20 2009 From: starbase89 at gmail.com (Joe Giliberti) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:00:20 -0400 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181714v2e514a8fge0b7f721c695db83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b1f1f550908181900t4414adfco2e7ee75e871d1063@mail.gmail.com> All right, just making sure. On to voltage... On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Joe Giliberti > wrote: > > I just noticed something inside the PET, so just for the moment, voltage > is > > on hold (though related.) There are only two wires coming off the > > transformer that go to the monitor, and both seem to be 24 gauge. Not big > > enough, I would think, to bring power to a CRT. > > Sure they are... they go to a 7812 to power the entire CRT assembly, > and that won't pass more than an amp. > > -ethan > From bqt at softjar.se Wed Aug 19 01:42:15 2009 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:42:15 +0200 Subject: Vax 11/750 disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8B9EC7.4010300@softjar.se> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Pontus wrote: >> I now have the 11/750 in my house (yay!), it was "fun" to carry up the >> stairs. > > That must be a new use of the word "fun" of which I was previously unaware. ;-) Indeed. But I'm sure you actually know what kind of fun that is, Ethan. ;-) >> Now, I just mounted the RA70 disks I got into their rack and dusted them >> off. They are mounted four in box similar to the RA90 and has a small >> front panel. I have only found the Pocket Reference Guide. So I'm >> wondering: does anyone have a manual? >> >> Alternatively, can anyone give me an introduction how to operate the >> front panel. Can I run diagnostics like on the RA90 ? > > I, too, would appreciate any documentation pointers or especially > "lessons learned" with RA7X drives. My former SDI experience was all > with RA81 drives (starting back when they were $24,000!) but I have a > couple of RA70s that I'd love to use either in a BA123 with either a > MicroVAX II or a KDJ11, or with my 8300/KDB50 or an 11/750/UDA50. > ISTR there were "internal" SDI cables that weren't as sturdy for > in-cabinet use. I only have external, heavy, black, rubberized SDI > cables. A pointer to where to acquire light-weight SDI cables would > be good to have. RA70 drives have switches so that you can set the unit number directly on the without having a front panel (look at the PCB). "Internal" cables are just the cable from the controller, which is an unshielded cable, usually red. You normally connect that cable to a bulk head, but you can connect that one directly to a drive as well, if you want to. That's what you usually have in a BA223(?). Apart from that, RA7x drives are nice and easy. All except the RA70 must have a front panel to set the unit number, meaning they don't work as well directly in a BA cabinet. You can connect one without a front panel, and it will be unit #0, but don't try connecting several this way. There aren't any diagnostics you can run on the disks without a computer, as far as I know. There are some power-up diagnostics of course, but they are run without operator control. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 19 12:23:00 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:23:00 -0700 Subject: Slidewire lubricant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8C34F4.21791.5877D3@cclist.sydex.com> On 18 Aug 2009 at 21:35, Tony Duell wrote: > Does anyone know what modern product I should use? >From the published MSDS, the cleaner was nothing more than Trichlorotrifluoroethane, which is probably on the "CFC banned" list. You should probably contact Nye to see if they made the HP slidewire lubricant and what they would suggest. They make/made a wide variety of products that HP used, including a variety of electrical and optical greases. In my experience with various chart recorders, cleaning was done with a soft cloth and nothing more--and no lube at all. The customary silver bead contact would be replaced periodically, but that's the extent of slidewire maintenance that I'm familiar with. --Chuck From tshoppa at wmata.com Wed Aug 19 12:40:58 2009 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:40:58 -0400 Subject: Slidewire lubricant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I've just bought an HP9125 plotter for my 9100 :-). For those who don't > know this device (built entirely from discrete transistors from what I > can see), it's basically a calcualtor interface (4 boards of logic) > driving a pair of DACs, driving an analogue X-Y plotter. Anyway, the last > part has slidewires (essentially long sliding potentiometers) to detect > the pen position and provide a feedback signal to the servo circuits. I have a HP9125 hooked up to my 9100 too. It's way cool. For a while I used noncompatible HP plotter pens kinda tape/wedged on but the last couple times it was just felt tip pens, definitely not quite as good as real plotter pens. > The HP service manual (OK, it's a boardswapper guide, but I read all the > information I can find...) says you have to clean said slidewires with > special cleaner and then coat them with special slidewire lubricant. Of > course I want to make my slidewires last as long as possible, getting > replacements is non-trivial :-) > Does anyone know what modern product I should use? I would guess a good cleaner/lube for slide audio faders would be the right thing. When I did some techie work in the recording industry, in fact, the old-timers called the faders "slidewires". Tim. From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 19 14:15:03 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:15:03 -0700 Subject: Slidewire lubricant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8C4F37.32316.BF0BC6@cclist.sydex.com> For the cleaner, the MSDS for HP 5080-3605 says: "This product no longer available from Hewlett-Packard as of 1/90 due to CFC content. Replacement P/N is 92193N (pre-packaged isopropanol wipes)." http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/pdf/5080- 3605.pdf --Chuck From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Wed Aug 19 17:27:25 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:27:25 -0300 Subject: Slidewire lubricant References: <4A8C34F4.21791.5877D3@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <0a4601ca211c$51defe90$ec2a19bb@desktaba> > In my experience with various chart recorders, cleaning was done with > a soft cloth and nothing more--and no lube at all. The customary > silver bead contact would be replaced periodically, but that's the > extent of slidewire maintenance that I'm familiar with. Wouldn't this slidewire be made of nichrome? Maybe it is time to take it out, measure the resistance of the entire wire and in some distances, and compare to the same awg nichrome wire? From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Wed Aug 19 18:01:18 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:01:18 -0400 Subject: Paging Jay West In-Reply-To: <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> References: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to><200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4A7A15F5.9000408@compsys.to> <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> Message-ID: <4A8C843E.8050901@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > Yes, saw the original emails Jerome. I read each the day you sent > them, but they didn't seem super time-sensitive so I've been dealing > with a few other things. Sorry for the slow response! > > (In my best monty python voice) But I'm not dead yet! Seems like about two weeks ago. If you are still busy, I understand. Jerome Fine From c-f at bigpond.net.au Wed Aug 19 20:53:21 2009 From: c-f at bigpond.net.au (Ashley) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:53:21 +1000 Subject: HP Integral I/O cards Message-ID: Hi Tony, A few years back you we looking for an IPC HP-82919A Serial interface I believe? I have an HP82919A RS232 used and 2x 82927A 512k memory modules new if you're interested? Not sure of a price yet but may eBay them. Kind Regards, Ashley From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 20:20:19 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:20:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: Slidewire lubricant In-Reply-To: <0a4601ca211c$51defe90$ec2a19bb@desktaba> from "Alexandre Souza" at Aug 19, 9 07:27:25 pm Message-ID: Thqnks for all the replies so far. It looks like I can use propan-2-ol for cleaning (which I would generally regard as safe on such things). I suspect the lubricant is rather more important, though. > > > In my experience with various chart recorders, cleaning was done with > > a soft cloth and nothing more--and no lube at all. The customary HP specifically mention a lubricant. Now, I am not going to be running this machine all that much, but equally replacement slidewires are unobtainable so I want to keep wear down as much as possible. So I'd like to put something on there. > > silver bead contact would be replaced periodically, but that's the > > extent of slidewire maintenance that I'm familiar with. According to the manual, the wiper contact is integral to part of the carriage, and you change the assembly. Again, something I can't do (due to lack of spares). I'd rather not have to make something up. > Wouldn't this slidewire be made of nichrome? Quite likely. Resistance wire, anyway. > > Maybe it is time to take it out, measure the resistance of the entire > wire and in some distances, and compare to the same awg nichrome wire? I've not looked at it that carefully (it's got some grease on it, which I don't want to clean off until I know what to replace it with), but it's not unheard-of for this to be a helix of thin wire around an insulating former, and not a simple straight wire. Which makes repairing it a lot harder. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 20:22:11 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:22:11 +0100 (BST) Subject: HP Integral I/O cards In-Reply-To: from "Ashley" at Aug 20, 9 11:53:21 am Message-ID: > > Hi Tony, > > > > A few years back you we looking for an IPC HP-82919A Serial interface I > believe? I was... Then I bought a second IPC on E-bay becuase it contained a seiral interface (anyhow, a second machine is useful :-)) So I am not despartely looking for one now. > > I have an HP82919A RS232 used and 2x 82927A 512k memory modules new if > you're interested? IIRC you can quite easily upgrade those RAM boards to 1M each. Certainly my second IPC came with a 512K RAM PCB that I put the extra chips on and moved some links. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 20:26:03 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:26:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) Message-ID: Some older HP instruments (and I think other manufactorers) used a 3-pin power connector with round pins, not the flat pins used on the now-common IEC plug. I've seen this connector used on older HP9100s, HP5245 counters, and on the 9125 I at ve just bought. Does anyone know if the cables to fit said plug are still available, and if so, where? I don't care what's on the other end of the cable (bare wires are fine), but I would want it to stand UK mains [For all the seller cleaerly showed the right cable in the E-bay listing, and for all he said the power cable was included, it wasn't. Apparently he lost it in a warehouse move. OK, there things happn, but I still need to get one ot power up said plotter). -tony From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Thu Aug 20 13:32:17 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:32:17 -0300 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: Message-ID: <000801ca21c5$d47b8860$7a6d19bb@desktaba> > Does anyone know if the cables to fit said plug are still available, and > if so, where? I don't care what's on the other end of the cable (bare > wires are fine), but I would want it to stand UK mains Photos? From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Thu Aug 20 14:27:07 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:27:07 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: Message-ID: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > Some older HP instruments (and I think other manufactorers) used a 3-pin > power connector with round pins, not the flat pins used on the now-common > IEC plug. I've seen this connector used on older HP9100s, HP5245 > counters, and on the 9125 I at ve just bought. > > Does anyone know if the cables to fit said plug are still available, and > if so, where? I don't care what's on the other end of the cable (bare > wires are fine), but I would want it to stand UK mains > > [For all the seller cleaerly showed the right cable in the E-bay listing, > and for all he said the power cable was included, it wasn't. Apparently > he lost it in a warehouse move. OK, there things happn, but I still need > to get one ot power up said plotter). These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that time somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. I was trying to find the message in the cctalk archives recently due to a request from someone else, but have been unable to do so (word search on the archive page doesn't seem to work). One of the problems is there are several variations that look very similar: slightly different pin diameters, pin lengths, spacing, and there are two that look physically identical but have the hot/neutral swapped. With that said, there is one (the type that HP used, I believe) that is more prevalent than the others. I often replace these (and other) old power connectors with IEC connectors if it can be done without hacking up the equipment, but some may prefer not to make such a modification. The rectangular hole has to be made larger of course and the two screw holes have to be 'moved out' about 1/32 - 3/64 inch. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 22:09:30 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:09:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <000801ca21c5$d47b8860$7a6d19bb@desktaba> from "Alexandre Souza" at Aug 20, 9 03:32:17 pm Message-ID: > > > Does anyone know if the cables to fit said plug are still available, and > > if so, where? I don't care what's on the other end of the cable (bare > > wires are fine), but I would want it to stand UK mains > > Photos? Not having a digital camera I can't provide a photo. Amd of course I don't have the cable to photograph (if I did, I wouldn't be looking for one :-)) If you do an e-bay search for HP 9125A under completed items, you should find the plotter I've just bought. One of the photos clearly shows the cable in question. -tony From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Thu Aug 20 14:53:47 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:53:47 -0300 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: Message-ID: <018501ca21cf$fd92be80$7a6d19bb@desktaba> > Not having a digital camera I can't provide a photo. Amd of course I Maybe it is time to have one? :) > don't have the cable to photograph (if I did, I wouldn't be looking for > one :-)) The socket in the back of the machine, maybe? :) > If you do an e-bay search for HP 9125A under completed items, you should Sorry, not found :) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 22:12:46 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:12:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Aug 20, 9 12:27:07 pm Message-ID: > These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that time I vaguely rememebred this, which is one reason I asked here. > somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. I was trying to > find the message in the cctalk archives recently due to a request from someone > else, but have been unable to do so (word search on the archive page doesn't > seem to work). > > One of the problems is there are several variations that look very similar: > slightly different pin diameters, pin lengths, spacing, and there are two that If necessary I can measure up the conenctor in my plotter. > look physically identical but have the hot/neutral swapped. With that said, That would not be a problem. I can swap the wires back again when I fit the UK mains plug. > there is one (the type that HP used, I believe) that is more prevalent than the others. > > I often replace these (and other) old power connectors with IEC connectors if > it can be done without hacking up the equipment, but some may prefer not to Normally, I'd do just that. But this is an early version of the plotter (The main differnce seems to be that the easrly version has an X-axis and a Y-axis servo PCB in the analogue backplane, the later version has a filter PCB and a servo pre-amp PCB (for both axes)), and I'd like to keep it as original as possible. Obviously I'll replace any failed components, but I'd rahter not cut/flile the conenctor panel if I don't have to. > make such a modification. The rectangular hole has to be made larger of course > and the two screw holes have to be 'moved out' about 1/32 - 3/64 inch. > -tony From ats at offog.org Thu Aug 20 15:54:30 2009 From: ats at offog.org (Adam Sampson) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:54:30 +0100 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> (Brent Hilpert's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:27:07 -0700") References: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: Brent Hilpert writes: > These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that > time somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. There was a discussion about Bulgin connectors a couple of years ago -- I think Tony provided most of the information at the time anyway. ;) http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2007-September/246770.html However, the HP 9125A connector isn't a Bulgin one: http://www.datazap.net/sites/2396/02-19-09-P1070935.JPG It looks the same as the one on my Singer/Friden EC1118 calculator, which probably doesn't help much. I've never seen them anywhere else; I guess the closest thing would be an Italian inline mains socket... -- Adam Sampson From pontus at update.uu.se Thu Aug 20 16:02:50 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:02:50 +0200 Subject: UNIBUS <-> PCI bridge In-Reply-To: <4A7B1735.5070408@update.uu.se> References: <4A7A38FC.9020800@hachti.de> <4A7AED53.696.771C263@cclist.sydex.com> <4A7B1735.5070408@update.uu.se> Message-ID: <4A8DB9FA.7020808@update.uu.se> Pontus wrote: > http://www.logical-co.com/Pci/genpci.htm > > I have contacted the Swedish resaler and asked if they have any in > stock, but I doubt it. > > I got a late reply today, it was possible to order an unused Q-bus adapter for no less than four thousand (4000) dollars. Well out of my budget :) /P From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Thu Aug 20 16:54:45 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:54:45 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <4A8DC626.32BA0AC9@cs.ubc.ca> Adam Sampson wrote: > > Brent Hilpert writes: > > > These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that > > time somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. > > There was a discussion about Bulgin connectors a couple of years ago -- > I think Tony provided most of the information at the time anyway. ;) > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2007-September/246770.html > > However, the HP 9125A connector isn't a Bulgin one: > http://www.datazap.net/sites/2396/02-19-09-P1070935.JPG > > It looks the same as the one on my Singer/Friden EC1118 calculator, > which probably doesn't help much. I've never seen them anywhere else; I > guess the closest thing would be an Italian inline mains socket... Yes, they were common on desktop calculators as well as HP equipment and other stuff in the 60's. They were something of a de-facto standard before the IEC standard. I have several, one of them is made by Belden (-->Volex). Searching on "Belden 7A 125V" (because that's what's stamped on the one I have) turns up this in the Electro-Sonic catalog: http://www.e-sonic.com/aboutus/cat/E/extension%201.pdf Top of 2nd page. Connector PH-163, cordset 17280. They even elaborate on the flipped polarisation. More searching on those may turn up more sources. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 20 17:07:34 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090820150526.M34474@shell.lmi.net> > > One of the problems is there are several variations that look very similar: > > slightly different pin diameters, pin lengths, spacing, and there are > > two that > > look physically identical but have the hot/neutral swapped. With that said, Yeah. I found THAT out the hard way when I was much younger. But, not to worry!, Tony is probably the only one here who connects his power cords to a meter before he connects them to their intended target! From pete at dunnington.plus.com Thu Aug 20 18:29:34 2009 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:29:34 +0100 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DC626.32BA0AC9@cs.ubc.ca> References: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> <4A8DC626.32BA0AC9@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <4A8DDC5E.7010508@dunnington.plus.com> On 20/08/2009 22:54, Brent Hilpert wrote: > Searching on "Belden 7A 125V" (because that's what's stamped on the one I have) > turns up this in the Electro-Sonic catalog: > http://www.e-sonic.com/aboutus/cat/E/extension%201.pdf > Top of 2nd page. Connector PH-163, cordset 17280. They even elaborate on the > flipped polarisation. More searching on those may turn up more sources. That's interesting. I thought it looked familiar -- the same cordset or connector is used on my Cromemco 3 system. I tracked it down a year or three ago. I didn't find a source in the UK, but they were available from Newark (cat.no.36F987) and could be ordered from the UK via Farnell (cat.no.1247864). That version is "hot left of ground", Volex number 17280-8-B1. Sadly they're now out of stock/discontinued, and so is the other polarisation (17952). The Volex data is at http://www.volex.com/index.php?option=stdprod&task=productdetails&stdprodcatid=&countryid=&stdprodappid=&iecstd=&stdprodid=44&Itemid=99999999 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 19:01:46 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:01:46 -0400 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DDC5E.7010508@dunnington.plus.com> References: <4A8DA38B.6C784A83@cs.ubc.ca> <4A8DC626.32BA0AC9@cs.ubc.ca> <4A8DDC5E.7010508@dunnington.plus.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On 20/08/2009 22:54, Brent Hilpert wrote: > >> Searching on "Belden 7A 125V" (because that's what's stamped on the one I >> have) >> turns up this in the Electro-Sonic catalog: >> ?http://www.e-sonic.com/aboutus/cat/E/extension%201.pdf >> Top of 2nd page. Connector PH-163, cordset 17280. They even elaborate on >> the >> flipped polarisation. More searching on those may turn up more sources. > > That's interesting. ?I thought it looked familiar -- the same cordset or > connector is used on my Cromemco 3 system.... >?Sadly they're now out of stock/discontinued, and so is the > other polarisation (17952). I have a Victor Comptometer that I've never powered up because I lack a similar style cord. No idea what the required polarization is, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out. I'd be happy enough if I could get the "wrong" cord and cut the mains end off and refit it with the wrong color scheme as long as it matches the required pinout at the device end. -ethan From feedle at feedle.net Thu Aug 20 21:27:57 2009 From: feedle at feedle.net (C. Sullivan) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:27:57 -0700 Subject: logic probe cases have arrived In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80BD2F39-50BB-4156-8F17-262A86868AAF@feedle.net> On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:24 PM, David Griffith wrote: > > Those of you who are in on the logic probe case group buy I > organized will be pleased to read that the cases have arrived. They > should arrive in their new owners' hands in a week. Received yesterday, FYI. From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 21:35:12 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:35:12 -0400 Subject: logic probe cases have arrived In-Reply-To: <80BD2F39-50BB-4156-8F17-262A86868AAF@feedle.net> References: <80BD2F39-50BB-4156-8F17-262A86868AAF@feedle.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:27 PM, C. Sullivan wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2009, at 4:24 PM, David Griffith wrote: >> Those of you who are in on the logic probe case group buy I organized will >> be pleased to read that the cases have arrived. ?They should arrive in their >> new owners' hands in a week. > > Received yesterday, FYI. Got mine, too. Verrry nice. Now I just need to find some time to stuff it with something useful. Thanks, David! -ethan From jws at jwsss.com Thu Aug 20 15:17:38 2009 From: jws at jwsss.com (jim s) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:17:38 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> Tony Duell wrote: >> These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that time >> > > I vaguely rememebred this, which is one reason I asked here. > > >> somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. I was trying to >> find the message in the cctalk archives recently due to a request from someone >> else, but have been unable to do so (word search on the archive page doesn't >> seem to work). >> >> Is this the connector on the equipment end you are looking for? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390061156608 auction # is 390061156608 for those who cannot use the above link. Jim From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Fri Aug 21 01:15:02 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:15:02 -0300 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <05b001ca2227$6a31fbd0$7a6d19bb@desktaba> > Is this the connector on the equipment end you are looking for? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390061156608 Man, I've seen it only once in my whole life. This is the second time! :oO From pete at dunnington.plus.com Fri Aug 21 02:15:11 2009 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:15:11 +0100 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> References: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <4A8E497F.8090102@dunnington.plus.com> > Is this the connector on the equipment end you are looking for? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390061156608 It certainly looks like it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cclist at sydex.com Fri Aug 21 09:13:10 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:13:10 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> References: , <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <4A8EAB76.2280.9F78043@cclist.sydex.com> On 20 Aug 2009 at 13:17, jim s wrote: > Is this the connector on the equipment end you are looking for? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390061156608 > > auction # is 390061156608 for those who cannot use the above link. Allied says that they have 75 of Volex 17280 in stock for $9.91 unit price. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Fri Aug 21 09:13:54 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:13:54 -0700 Subject: logic probe cases have arrived In-Reply-To: <80BD2F39-50BB-4156-8F17-262A86868AAF@feedle.net> References: , <80BD2F39-50BB-4156-8F17-262A86868AAF@feedle.net> Message-ID: <4A8EABA2.21382.9F82BA6@cclist.sydex.com> On 20 Aug 2009 at 19:27, C. Sullivan wrote: > Received yesterday, FYI. Mine came yesterday as well. Thank you, David! --Chuck From IanK at vulcan.com Fri Aug 21 11:27:02 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:27:02 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> References: ,<4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> Message-ID: I don't know about anyone else, but that's what *I've* been looking for. Thanks! -- Ian ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim s [jws at jwsss.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:17 PM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) Tony Duell wrote: >> These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that time >> > > I vaguely rememebred this, which is one reason I asked here. > > >> somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. I was trying to >> find the message in the cctalk archives recently due to a request from someone >> else, but have been unable to do so (word search on the archive page doesn't >> seem to work). >> >> Is this the connector on the equipment end you are looking for? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390061156608 auction # is 390061156608 for those who cannot use the above link. Jim From emu at e-bbes.com Fri Aug 21 11:50:49 2009 From: emu at e-bbes.com (e.stiebler) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:50:49 -0600 Subject: i860, tool chain Message-ID: <4A8ED069.7000402@e-bbes.com> Hi all, anybody out here is still playing with i860 based boards ? Which gcc tool chain is the latest supporting them ? Cheers & Thanks From roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk Fri Aug 21 13:01:56 2009 From: roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk (Roger Holmes) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:01:56 +0100 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Your description does not mention the shape of the outside of the plug so I don't know if the ones other people have been talking about are the ones you want. Wouldn't happen to be this one would it? http://uk.farnell.com/bulgin/px0646/socket-3way-free/dp/313970?in_merch=true& From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 21 13:43:50 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:43:50 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8DAF62.8050504@jwsss.com> from "jim s" at Aug 20, 9 01:17:38 pm Message-ID: > Is this the connector on the equipment end you are looking for? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390061156608 > > auction # is 390061156608 for those who cannot use the above link. Yes, I think that's the one. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 21 13:50:06 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:50:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: from "Adam Sampson" at Aug 20, 9 09:54:30 pm Message-ID: > > Brent Hilpert writes: > > > These were discussed on the list a couple of years ago, IIRC at that > > time somebody provided a reference to some place still selling them. > > There was a discussion about Bulgin connectors a couple of years ago -- > I think Tony provided most of the information at the time anyway. ;) > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2007-September/246770.html I don;t think it's a Bulgin connector. Most of those had circular bodies with a keyway, and came in 2, 3 or 6 pin versions (both chassis plug and chassis socket). > > However, the HP 9125A connector isn't a Bulgin one: > http://www.datazap.net/sites/2396/02-19-09-P1070935.JPG > > It looks the same as the one on my Singer/Friden EC1118 calculator, Probably. Not having an EC1118 I can't comment. > which probably doesn't help much. I've never seen them anywhere else; I > guess the closest thing would be an Italian inline mains socket... I'ev come across it on other HP stuff. My older HP9100B has one (my later 9100B has a normal IEC 'kettle plug'). My 5243 and 5245 counters have them. I think my Intellec MCS8i had one, but I cbanged that to an IEC plug. I suspect it was a common connecotr at one time. Which means somebody may still be making them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 21 13:54:30 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:54:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <20090820150526.M34474@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Aug 20, 9 03:07:34 pm Message-ID: > > > > One of the problems is there are several variations that look very similar: > > > slightly different pin diameters, pin lengths, spacing, and there are > > > two that > > > look physically identical but have the hot/neutral swapped. With that said, > > Yeah. I found THAT out the hard way when I was much younger. > But, not to worry!, Tony is probably the only one here who connects his > power cords to a meter before he connects them to their intended target! Err, of course I do (and I am not being sarcastic). I also 'megger' them (does that make senze across the Pond? A 'Megger' over here is a megohmeter that uses a high test voltage (perhaps 1000V) to detect insualtion breakdown). The polarity matters for the HP9125A in that it has single-pole fusing (in the 'hot'/live/phase lead) and also single-pole switching (a relay operated by the calculator supply) in the same wire. My guess is that if I can find this cable, it'll either have nothing on the other emd, or a US 115V/15A plug. Which I would cut off and replace with a UK mains plug (the 9125A has a voltage selector for 115V/230V mains). In whcih case I can get the polarity right. -tony From charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net Fri Aug 21 16:28:21 2009 From: charlesmorris800 at centurytel.net (Charles Morris) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:28:21 -0500 Subject: FS: old PC-related manuals Message-ID: <4a4u85129gq14lb00ohhac47665t4bcapf@4ax.com> While cleaning I found, still sealed in the original shrink wrap and marked "For Distribution Only With a New PC": Microsoft MS-DOS User's Guide (6.22) Microsoft Windows User's Guide (think it's 3.0 or maybe 3.1) Lotus Organizer Release 1.1 User Manual ... also, unwrapped, but in good shape: ClarisWorks Handbook for Windows DeskMate User's Reference dated 2/91 $5.00 plus Media Mail shipping from zip 65775. They go out with the trash on Monday otherwise ;) thanks Charles From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 21 16:37:34 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Free early PC software manuals In-Reply-To: <20090729120451.F92542@shell.lmi.net> References: , <8991DDB5E70F45B4BC02314D86458EDE@Barry> <4A709B47.12380.AE5D92@cclist.sydex.com> <20090729120451.F92542@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20090729145042.J93543@shell.lmi.net> V1.0 IBM COBOL V1.0 IBM Fortran V1.0 IBM Pascal V1.0 IBM MASM V2.0 IBM PC-DOS ? Turbo C Very beat up, grimy page edges All pages are PROBABLY there NO binders They are bolted into a very beat-up 12" counter metal reference rack (http://www.quill.com/master-starter-sets/cbs/052850.html)? They may have one or more additional binding holes drilled. They were used in a community college student computer lab for years. Free if you come and get them in Berkeley. if I separate them, or ship them, then I will charge money! Thank you, -- Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com Berkeley City College Library 2050 Center St. 981-2964 From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 17:26:25 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:26:25 -0400 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: <20090820150526.M34474@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> But, not to worry!, Tony is probably the only one here who connects his >> power cords to a meter before he connects them to their intended target! > > Err, of course I do (and I am not being sarcastic). I am unsurprised. > I also 'megger' them > (does that make senze across the Pond? A 'Megger' over here is a > megohmeter that uses a high test voltage (perhaps 1000V) to detect > insualtion breakdown). Yes. The term applies here as well. > My guess is that if I can find this cable, it'll either have nothing on > the other emd, or a US 115V/15A plug. Which I would cut off and replace > with a UK mains plug (the 9125A has a voltage selector for 115V/230V > mains). In whcih case I can get the polarity right. My Victor Comptometer* is marked 100-130VAC on the bottom, so I'm OK there. -ethan * for the curious, it's a model 12E.523.157C, whatever that means. I just dismantled the Bakelite plug housing and what I need is similar to what we have been discussing, but not identical. I have three round fat (4.5mm?) brass pins in a similar high-middle-low arrangement, sticking out of the back of the machine. They appear to be in the pattern N-G-H, based on which one is fused. Every time I look at the nameplate, I think of the line from "Are You Being Served" where the wife of a couple shopping at the store accuses her accountant husband of infidelity with "... the girl on the comptometer. It all adds up!" From tosteve at yahoo.com Fri Aug 21 17:47:25 2009 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven stengel) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IBM 026 keypunch "available" in Knoxville TN Message-ID: <324087.92653.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> hftfox at netscape.net > > We have an old IBM 026 keypunch that is in great > shape.? It has been in a controlled environment for at > least the last 25 years.? If you know of anyone who might be > interested, please e-mail me at: >?? hftfox at netscape.net > > ???Thank you for any assistance you can give to keep > this piece of equipment out of the trash collectors truck. > > Thanks > Tom Fox > From cclist at sydex.com Fri Aug 21 17:51:01 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:51:01 -0700 Subject: Programming 68764 EPROMs, redux Message-ID: <4A8F24D5.20442.BD1A147@cclist.sydex.com> It dawned on me that perhaps a 200MHz P1 was too fast for my parallel- port programmer (M2L EZ-EP). I hooked the programmer up to a 16MHz 80386 system and bingo--the EPROMs blank-check and program correctly. Speed kills... Thanks for your suggestions. --Chuck From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Aug 21 17:57:01 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:57:01 -0400 Subject: Programming 68764 EPROMs, redux In-Reply-To: <4A8F24D5.20442.BD1A147@cclist.sydex.com> References: <4A8F24D5.20442.BD1A147@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <53F19FA7-2B4B-436A-A2FA-E472B0FE8E5B@neurotica.com> On Aug 21, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > It dawned on me that perhaps a 200MHz P1 was too fast for my parallel- > port programmer (M2L EZ-EP). I hooked the programmer up to a 16MHz > 80386 system and bingo--the EPROMs blank-check and program correctly. > > Speed kills... > > Thanks for your suggestions. Doh! Ok, that's a pisser. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From jws at jwsss.com Fri Aug 21 15:33:19 2009 From: jws at jwsss.com (jim s) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:33:19 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8F048F.4090503@jwsss.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > I'ev come across it on other HP stuff. My older HP9100B has one (my later > 9100B has a normal IEC 'kettle plug'). My 5243 and 5245 counters have > them. I think my Intellec MCS8i had one, but I cbanged that to an IEC plug. > > I suspect it was a common connecotr at one time. Which means somebody may > still be making them. > > -tony > There is also a supply of the cords here: http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/cables.html http://www.electronicsurplus.com/dictionary/cat1969.htm Anyway, both these connectors and others were in common use, and were changed when the electrical code was revised to lower the acceptable amount of current that could be supplied thru various means. At Microdata we had a 30 amp cabinet power connector which was made by Hubble to EIA (i think) standards. That amount of current was banned and the current to any bay was reduced to 20 amps. We therefore had to go to a different bay design with less equipment, and the newer twist lock connector. The bay height was reduced by about 12 to reflect this. The change I refer to above was made when the new style clipped rectangular power cords were first introduced, and the oval ones we are discussing were replaced in equipment designs. Also discontinued was the practices of integrated cords, because as we all know now, the fixed cords fray and present a fire hazard at the place the cord penetrates the equipment housing. I wish someone had a page with information on the UL and other standards proceedings, as I think that this would be where the connectors an standards history would be located, but I could not find anything with a bit of searching. Also, Tony, I looked for a UK supplier of these cords without success. I realized that you call the power plugs the "mains" and searched with that term, and also used UK and British, and Great Britain in the search term w/o much success. For some reason several searches came up with patents and nuclear power plant topics as matches, but no power cord suppliers. Jim From markw at anomalous.net Fri Aug 21 18:13:45 2009 From: markw at anomalous.net (Mark L. Weindling) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:13:45 -0500 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: <20090820150526.M34474@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: Sorry it took me so long to dig this up - From HP test equipment mailing list I'm on, Mike Czuhajewski wrote: > Someone recently made a "somewhat OT" post to the TekScopes list > offering to give away some of the old, oval power cords that HP used > a long time ago. (They were spoken for with 3 hours.) I responded > with the following post about these cords, and it may be helpful to > those on this list as well (and not OT here!). The bottom line is > that while you have to know where to look for them, they are hardly > rare or expensive. > > Last year I did a bit of research about the oval power cord used by > HP long ago and found that it is still available off the shelf; I > ordered some from Mouser to verify it. The particular power cord for > this type of connector used to be Belden part number 17952, and is > currently made by Volex with the same number. The manufacturer web > site is > > http://www.volex.com > > I checked the web site just now and it's set up differently than it > was last year. This is the path to get to it now from the home page: > Products, power products, standard products, select North America, > detachable, then click on the X at the intersection of "special" > and "plastic" on the chart. Finally, click on "spec" for the part > number. > > Here's where it gets interesting; scroll down to the bottom of the > data and you'll see this note: > > "This cord is made with non-standard polarization and has a caution > label applied to the cord stating this fact: `This cord is for > replacement only and is NOT intended for new original equipment.' See > also 17280." But we want it for replacement use, and this is the one > we want. > > Go back up the list to the spec on either version of the 17280 (the > only difference in the two versions is gray vs. black), and you'll > see this note: "Polarity as mandated by CSA electrical Bulletin 895B > and UL817. See also 17952." (Underwriters Laboratories is a USA > organization, and CSA is Canadian Standards Association.) That's the > current polarity standard. The hot and neutral pins on the older cord > are reversed from that. > > I ordered both styles of cord from Mouser (http://www.mouser.com), > and sure enough, the one for the old equipment which is now > considered nonstandard polarity has a warning label on it. The price > has gone up a bit since then and both types are now about $10 each. I > just checked the Mouser site; they have 7 of one in stock and 24 of > the other, and show a factory lead time of a week. Both Allied > (http://www.alliedelec.com/) and Newark (http://www.newark.com) also > carry them and have them in stock. > > The bottom line is that while these things might be hard to find if > you don't know where to look, they are not rare by any means and you > don't have to pay outrageous prices for old ones. Unless, of course, > you're a collector and insist on having a 40 year old power cord to > go along with a 40 year old piece of equipment :-) > > BTW, if you come across an oval cord like this somewhere, keep in > mind that it might not be what you're looking for since the hot and > neutral pins can be in two different configurations depending on > which part number it is (which may not be on the cord anywhere). Be > sure to verify that the polarity is the proper one for whatever you > plan to connect it to. > > (I wrote an article on this for a small amateur radio journal last > year. It had additional information and several graphics. If anyone > is interested I can e-mail the text and figures.) I can't vouch for any of this information as I don't have any equipment that requires these cords, but now you know what I know. -Mark From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Aug 22 01:45:56 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 02:45:56 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive Message-ID: I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 series and I found out it is password locked. IBM DHAA-2540 Security level MAX All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the ATA command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To do the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all spaces). Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for that series? If the master password was changed from default is it hosed permanently? Any other way around it so I can use the drive? From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 22 02:16:45 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:16:45 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: <20090820150526.M34474@shell.lmi.net>, , Message-ID: <4A8F9B5D.18959.DA080F2@cclist.sydex.com> On 21 Aug 2009 at 18:13, Mark L. Weindling wrote: > From HP test equipment mailing list I'm on, Mike Czuhajewski wrote: > > > Someone recently made a "somewhat OT" post to the TekScopes list > > offering to give away some of the old, oval power cords that HP used > > a long time ago. (They were spoken for with 3 hours.) I responded > > with the following post about these cords, and it may be helpful to > > those on this list as well (and not OT here!). The bottom line is > > that while you have to know where to look for them, they are hardly > > rare or expensive. > > > > Last year I did a bit of research about the oval power cord used by > > HP long ago and found that it is still available off the shelf; I > > ordered some from Mouser to verify it. The particular power cord for > > this type of connector used to be Belden part number 17952, and is > > currently made by Volex with the same number. The manufacturer web > > site is > > > > http://www.volex.com > > > > I checked the web site just now and it's set up differently than it > > was last year. This is the path to get to it now from the home page: > > Products, power products, standard products, select North America, > > detachable, then click on the X at the intersection of "special" and > > "plastic" on the chart. Finally, click on "spec" for the part > > number. Volex 17952 seems to be out of stock currently for the major suppliers--and (I think) it's not even listed in the Mouser catalog. There yet appears to be a supply of 17280 around--and personally, I'd be tempted to do one of two things--either reverse the connections in the equipment to conform with the latest standards, or install a new line plug on the 17280 part with the connections reversed there. I had some old monitors from Four Phase that took the same (17280) connector. --Chuck From ploopster at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 04:09:10 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:09:10 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8FB5B6.9080206@gmail.com> Teo Zenios wrote: > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 series > and I found out it is password locked. > > IBM DHAA-2540 Security level MAX > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the ATA > command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To do > the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all > spaces). > > Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for that > series? If the master password was changed from default is it hosed > permanently? Any other way around it so I can use the drive? I don't think there is such a thing as a default password. You might be able to get around that. I don't know. Peace... Sridhar From hp-fix at xs4all.nl Sat Aug 22 04:37:09 2009 From: hp-fix at xs4all.nl (Rik Bos) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:37:09 +0200 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Teo Zenios > Verzonden: zaterdag 22 augustus 2009 8:46 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Onderwerp: Old password protected laptop drive > > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad > 755 series and I found out it is password locked. > > IBM DHAA-2540 > Security level MAX > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run > the ATA command security erase prepare, and then security > erase unit. To do the latter you need a master password which > I don't have (tried all spaces). > > Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for > that series? If the master password was changed from default > is it hosed permanently? Any other way around it so I can use > the drive? > > http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/9366/IBM_ThinkPad%20755.html Did you try to format the drive in another computer as secondary drive ? Or try to do a destructive read/write test on all sectors with test software. Or may be you could mount it on a Unix/Linux system.. -Rik From dgahling at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 08:37:02 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:37:02 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: or just start trying passwords (password, sex, god, etc) if the security is such that too many password failures may cause it to wipe the drive itself... otherwise, yes, you're SOL, but a replacement drive can be very cheap. > From: teoz at neo.rr.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Old password protected laptop drive > Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 02:45:56 -0400 > > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 series and I found out it is password locked. > > IBM DHAA-2540 > Security level MAX > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the ATA command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To do the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all spaces). > > Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for that series? If the master password was changed from default is it hosed permanently? Any other way around it so I can use the drive? _________________________________________________________________ Stay on top of things, check email from other accounts! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671355 From scheefj at netscape.net Sat Aug 22 11:59:53 2009 From: scheefj at netscape.net (Jim Scheef) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:59:53 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A902409.5060705@netscape.net> Teo, This "prize" was a joke? Try Darik's Boot and Nuke (http://www.dban.org/), an ultra-secure disk wiping utility. It boots a small Linux from a CD or floppy which then load the utility. If it can detect and control the drive on the IDE controller, it should be able to wipe the drive. This is working at at the hardware register level so it just might work. Unfortunately I suspect this drive has a hardware-based encryption that sits between the IDE channel and the drive electronics and thus will prevent anything from writing to any part of the drive without the unlocking password. Jim Teo Zenios wrote: > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 series and I found out it is password locked. > > IBM DHAA-2540 > Security level MAX > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the ATA command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To do the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all spaces). > > Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for that series? If the master password was changed from default is it hosed permanently? Any other way around it so I can use the drive? From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Aug 22 12:27:13 2009 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:27:13 -0700 Subject: i860, tool chain In-Reply-To: <4A8ED069.7000402@e-bbes.com> References: <4A8ED069.7000402@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <4A902A71.50303@brouhaha.com> > Which gcc tool chain is the latest supporting them ? Probably GCC 3.4.6 from May 2006. From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 22 12:30:15 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:30:15 -0700 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <4A902409.5060705@netscape.net> References: , <4A902409.5060705@netscape.net> Message-ID: <4A902B27.7622.FD2998D@cclist.sydex.com> Teo Zenios wrote: > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 > series and I found out it is password locked. > > IBM DHAA-2540 > Security level MAX > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the > ATA command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To > do the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried > all spaces). >From section 8.1.1.4 of http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A4080D7CE6E2A9DB87 256ACC0061C25C/$file/dhaa_spi.pdf "If a user forgets the user password and Maximum security level is set, data access is impossible. However the drive can be unlocked using the Erase Unit command to unlock the drive and erase all user data." There's your answer. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the DeathStar drives... --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 00:32:49 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:32:49 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A8F048F.4090503@jwsss.com> from "jim s" at Aug 21, 9 01:33:19 pm Message-ID: > Anyway, both these connectors and others were in common use, and were > changed when the electrical code was revised to lower the acceptable > amount of current that could be supplied thru various means. Interesting. I don;t think this is a problem for my HP9125 plotter, though -- from what others have said this connector was originally rated at 7A, and the plotter draws a lot less than that (<2A I would have thought). > The change I refer to above was made when the new style clipped > rectangular power cords were first introduced, and the oval ones we are > discussing were replaced in equipment designs. Also discontinued was > the practices of integrated cords, because as we all know now, the fixed I thoughth the reason most manufacturers went away from those was that having a seaprate cable made it easy to sell the product in all countries. I think wired-in mains cables are still allowed over here, I've certainly not seen any regualtions that forbid them. > cords fray and present a fire hazard at the place the cord penetrates > the equipment housing. Not if the cable is passed through aproperly-designed clamping bush :-) I wish they'd bad moulded-on connectors. They don;t provide proper strain relief and it's difficult to check they're internally safe (e.g. no loose strands of wire in the mouting that will short out in a couple of years time). Does anyone know if the connnector we're talking about was ever made in a non-moulded (i.e. the user gets to fit the cable) type? If so, is it avaialble anywhere? > > I wish someone had a page with information on the UL and other standards > proceedings, as I think that this would be where the connectors an > standards history would be located, but I could not find anything with a > bit of searching. > > Also, Tony, I looked for a UK supplier of these cords without success. > I realized that you call the power plugs the "mains" and searched with The word 'cord' is not used (in this sense) in the UK. It sounds very odd to us. We talk about 'power cables', 'mains leads' etc. We also use the term 'flex' (short for 'flexible cable'), but normally only for buying cable without connectors on it. Over here you might ask for '2 metres of 3 core 6A flex', but wer wouldn't normally ask for a 'power flex for my PC'. > that term, and also used UK and British, and Great Britain in the search > term w/o much success. For some reason several searches came up with > patents and nuclear power plant topics as matches, but no power cord > suppliers. Oh well.. Since I had the plotter shipped from the States (with no damage!), I am sure a cable can be sent too :-) Apart from the extra cost of shipping it, there's no problem in me getting it from just about any country. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 00:39:54 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:39:54 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 21, 9 06:26:25 pm Message-ID: > > I also 'megger' them > > (does that make senze across the Pond? A 'Megger' over here is a > > megohmeter that uses a high test voltage (perhaps 1000V) to detect > > insualtion breakdown). > > Yes. The term applies here as well. Actually, 'Megger' is a brand name that's become somewhat generic (like 'Hoover' for vaccum cleaner). The original Meggers had a hand-crancked magneto generator to get the high voltage. I have one of those, but I tend to use another insulation tester that has a transistorised oscillator and transformer circuit. That one has selectable test voltages which can be useful. > > My Victor Comptometer* is marked 100-130VAC on the bottom, so I'm OK there. > > -ethan > > * for the curious, it's a model 12E.523.157C, whatever that means. I > just dismantled the Bakelite plug housing and what I need is similar > to what we have been discussing, but not identical. I have three > round fat (4.5mm?) brass pins in a similar high-middle-low > arrangement, sticking out of the back of the machine. They appear to > be in the pattern N-G-H, based on which one is fused. Every time I I am not sure what the wiring on the HP9125 is, but it'll be trivial to work it out. > look at the nameplate, I think of the line from "Are You Being Served" > where the wife of a couple shopping at the store accuses her > accountant husband of infidelity with "... the girl on the > comptometer. It all adds up!" This reminds me of a somewhat strange thing I have made by Victor Comptometer. It came off some scientific instrument (maybe X-ray diffraction) and is a numerical printer. It consists of the mechanism of a comptometer (I am not sure how complete it is, there my be no carry linkages, for example) with solenoids over where the keys would be, and a metal box over them. I am not sure what I'll ever use it for, but it seemed to be worth saving. -tony From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Sat Aug 22 13:43:09 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:43:09 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: Message-ID: <4A903C3D.96B9DDD5@cs.ubc.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Does anyone know if the connnector we're talking about was ever made in a > non-moulded (i.e. the user gets to fit the cable) type? If so, is it > avaialble anywhere? I have 4-5 of them, all slightly different, but all of them moulded connectors. Never seen a 'fixable' version, the size would arguably make it difficult to produce in such a form. (I do have an IEC cord connector in 'fixable'/screw-terminal form.) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 02:38:30 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:38:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A903C3D.96B9DDD5@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Aug 22, 9 11:43:09 am Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > Does anyone know if the connnector we're talking about was ever made in a > > non-moulded (i.e. the user gets to fit the cable) type? If so, is it > > avaialble anywhere? > > I have 4-5 of them, all slightly different, but all of them moulded connectors. > Never seen a 'fixable' version, the size would arguably make it difficult to > produce in such a form. It should be possible to make one, though. Either lilke that IEC connector you have (I susepct) with top and bottom half-housings and contacts that fit into them, or as a socket hosuing with contacts and a separate cover cap that fits over the termnials/cable. I think I could make the latter tpye at home, but I'd rather not if I can get the connecotr or a moulded cable. > > (I do have an IEC cord connector in 'fixable'/screw-terminal form.) Those are very easy to get in the UK (and in various versions, like the 'hot condition' one with the notch between the current-carrying pins). I prefer them to the moulded type. -tony > From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Sat Aug 22 17:32:28 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:32:28 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: Message-ID: <4A9071FC.388BA047@cs.ubc.ca> Was just conversing with another fellow about these connectors for an old HP counter. He found an alternative solution to work in a pinch: > See http://wa5znu.org/2009/08/hp5216a for pix. I > was at Halted Surplus and they had the connector, so I picked one up and > went around the store trying to find something that fit and found > these. I drilled out the holes a little more, spread the Molex pins a > bit, and soldered them to the AC line after pushing the wires through > the shell. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Aug 22 19:42:11 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:42:11 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive References: , <4A902409.5060705@netscape.net> <4A902B27.7622.FD2998D@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <9CDF8CF293EA42E6AAAF69E09F4ABFA7@dell8300> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:30 PM Subject: Re: Old password protected laptop drive > Teo Zenios wrote: > > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 > > series and I found out it is password locked. > > > > IBM DHAA-2540 > > Security level MAX > > > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the > > ATA command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To > > do the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried > > all spaces). > >>From section 8.1.1.4 of > > http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A4080D7CE6E2A9DB87 > 256ACC0061C25C/$file/dhaa_spi.pdf > > "If a user forgets the user password and Maximum security level is > set, data access is impossible. However the drive can be unlocked > using the Erase Unit command to unlock the drive and erase all user > data." > > There's your answer. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the DeathStar > drives... > > --Chuck Is there a utility that does this? I tried ATA disk password utility v1.1 and that didnt work (still needed a password). > From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 22 20:10:53 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:10:53 -0700 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <9CDF8CF293EA42E6AAAF69E09F4ABFA7@dell8300> References: , <9CDF8CF293EA42E6AAAF69E09F4ABFA7@dell8300> Message-ID: <4A90971D.8514.11788DFF@cclist.sydex.com> On 22 Aug 2009 at 20:42, Teo Zenios wrote: > Is there a utility that does this? I tried ATA disk password utility > v1.1 and that didnt work (still needed a password). > According to the Hitachi docs, the command codes are unique to this product line, so you need to issue the commands to the controller yourself. Does Linux have a backdoor for issuing ATA commands? You could also probably do it with DOS and DEBUG. --Chuck From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Aug 22 20:19:09 2009 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:19:09 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive References: , <9CDF8CF293EA42E6AAAF69E09F4ABFA7@dell8300> <4A90971D.8514.11788DFF@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <7BE54680C6C545D6898546F64BAE4BC0@dell8300> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Old password protected laptop drive > On 22 Aug 2009 at 20:42, Teo Zenios wrote: > >> Is there a utility that does this? I tried ATA disk password utility >> v1.1 and that didnt work (still needed a password). > > > According to the Hitachi docs, the command codes are unique to this > product line, so you need to issue the commands to the controller > yourself. Does Linux have a backdoor for issuing ATA commands? > > You could also probably do it with DOS and DEBUG. > > --Chuck > Ok so what you are saying is the utility I have isn't using the correct command codes. When I did the security erase prepare it said ok, when I tried the erase unit cammand it then asked for a password because it gave the drive the wrong parameters. Can you give me an example on how to use debug to sent commands (will look those up) to the drive? From rick at rickmurphy.net Sat Aug 22 20:28:02 2009 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:28:02 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <7BE54680C6C545D6898546F64BAE4BC0@dell8300> References: <9CDF8CF293EA42E6AAAF69E09F4ABFA7@dell8300> <4A90971D.8514.11788DFF@cclist.sydex.com> <7BE54680C6C545D6898546F64BAE4BC0@dell8300> Message-ID: <200908230128.n7N1S07a027898@rickmurphy.net> At 09:19 PM 8/22/2009, Teo Zenios wrote: >Ok so what you are saying is the utility I have isn't using the >correct command codes. When I did the security erase prepare it said >ok, when I tried the erase unit cammand it then asked for a password >because it gave the drive the wrong parameters. > >Can you give me an example on how to use debug to sent commands (will >look those up) to the drive? You've already been asked but haven't answered this: What are you trying to do? The IDE security erase capability doesn't work unless there's a password on the drive. You've got to lock it first prior to starting the erase. Unfortunately, many PCs *block* the secure erase and user password settings, apparently due to worries about malware dropping a password onto a drive, making it unusable for the owner. I've found very few laptop drives where secure erase works, for example. If the drive is already locked and you don't know the password, you're the proud owner of a brick. If the drive isn't already locked and you want to try secure erase, try locking it first with a user password. If that doesn't work, give up on secure erase. There's lots of free drive clearing software available you can use; MHDD, DBAN, etc. -Rick From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 23 00:39:27 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:39:27 -0700 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <200908230128.n7N1S07a027898@rickmurphy.net> References: , <7BE54680C6C545D6898546F64BAE4BC0@dell8300>, <200908230128.n7N1S07a027898@rickmurphy.net> Message-ID: <4A90D60F.28324.126E18C3@cclist.sydex.com> Maybe I've misunderstood the question. There are two passwords on this drive. If the user loses the user password, the drive can be returned to use but losing all of the user data using the "Erase Unit" command, preceded immediately by the "Prepare Erase" command. However, there is also a Master Password, which is normally all spaces. If this password is changed, the drive data is inaccessible if the Master Password is lost. The only way to get around this is to use a utility that can access the firmware area of the drive: Here's one such tool: http://www.hdd-tools.com/news/ There are others. --Chuck From philpem at philpem.me.uk Sat Aug 22 03:47:12 2009 From: philpem at philpem.me.uk (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:47:12 +0100 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8FB090.2010305@philpem.me.uk> Teo Zenios wrote: > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the ATA > command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To do > the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all > spaces). Maybe try "IBM" or "IBM " repeated to fill the buffer? -- Phil. philpem at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ From chrism3667 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 22 10:10:09 2009 From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com (Chris M) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Free early PC software manuals In-Reply-To: <20090729145042.J93543@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <908599.21312.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I know I have IBM Pro Fortran 1.0. Some version of Pascal and Masm (not sure if they're 1.0, but I'll check eventually. They're likely contemporary w/the FARTRAN LOL version). I had the mind to take snaps of these and put them somewhere or forward them to Al K. If anyone has pressing need, I could dig them out (easily the most arduous portion) and take digicam photos of the pages. They'll read perfectly. I also have the options and adapters manuals (w/the PGA details), which is currently *scattered*, but I do have them. --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Fred Cisin wrote: > V1.0 IBM COBOL > V1.0 IBM Fortran > V1.0 IBM Pascal > V1.0 IBM MASM > V2.0 IBM PC-DOS > ? Turbo C From philip at axeside.co.uk Sat Aug 22 15:12:29 2009 From: philip at axeside.co.uk (Philip Belben) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:12:29 +0100 Subject: CBM 8032 display CRT replacement In-Reply-To: <2b1f1f550908181900t4414adfco2e7ee75e871d1063@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b1f1f550908180703s5962f08cg7061fc9e71212f@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181333y50921f21v307e8332ca0e16f3@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181453t69157aa6k81c23a39ad07f4e@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181714v2e514a8fge0b7f721c695db83@mail.gmail.com> <2b1f1f550908181900t4414adfco2e7ee75e871d1063@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A90512D.4020405@axeside.co.uk> Another thing. IIRC all 8000-series PETs have the speaker connected to CB2 of the 6522 chip, and it should sound "tweet-tweet" when you power on. Do you get any sound? An awful lot has to be working for that to happen, so "no" is not a very helpful answer, but if you do get the tweets, you can concentrate on the video circuitry and the monitor. Philip. Joe Giliberti wrote: > All right, just making sure. On to voltage... > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Joe Giliberti >> wrote: >>> I just noticed something inside the PET, so just for the moment, voltage >> is >>> on hold (though related.) There are only two wires coming off the >>> transformer that go to the monitor, and both seem to be 24 gauge. Not big >>> enough, I would think, to bring power to a CRT. >> Sure they are... they go to a 7812 to power the entire CRT assembly, >> and that won't pass more than an amp. >> >> -ethan >> > From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Sun Aug 23 04:15:40 2009 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:15:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: PDP-8 Key-Edit Message-ID: Hi there, are there any other owners of KEY-EDIT systems which are based on a PDP-8/e? Christian From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 10:08:34 2009 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:08:34 -0500 Subject: OEM Screentyper / network-capable ASCII terminals? Message-ID: <4A915B72.90900@gmail.com> Mention of this on another group got me curious - anyone ever come across an 'OEM screentyper' before? From what I'm told it sounds very like a text-mode ASCII dumb terminal (Z80 CPU, ASCII display, diskless) - yet it has a network port on the back, rather than an RS-232 connection to some other intelligent machine. In other words, it sounds old and simple - but seems unusual if its connection to the outside world is via a direct network connection. I'm awaiting more details to see if the person who told me of it can recall if it was Ethernet or Token Ring or something else (and that it not being just RS232 via a non-standard connector can be ruled out), but I figure someone here may have heard of it anyway. I wondered if maybe it was a packet monitor or some sort of data logger rather than a data-entry device... cheers Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 11:19:18 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:19:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A9071FC.388BA047@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Aug 22, 9 03:32:28 pm Message-ID: > > Was just conversing with another fellow about these connectors for an old HP > counter. He found an alternative solution to work in a pinch: Any ideas what the connector he's using is? It looks like some kind of adapter on an IEC plug. -tony From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Sun Aug 23 12:45:12 2009 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:45:12 -0700 Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) References: Message-ID: <4A918028.A2414668@cs.ubc.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Was just conversing with another fellow about these connectors for an old HP > > counter. He found an alternative solution to work in a pinch: > > Any ideas what the connector he's using is? It looks like some kind of > adapter on an IEC plug. Yes, it's some style of IEC-connector shell, the extra portion that apparently fits in the old connector looks like it was intended as shroud for some sort of non-solder or crimp style pins. Earlier message: > I've made an matching power cord by reversing a plastic IEC connector > shell and using molex pins in it. It's odd that an IEC shell backwards > fits perfectly. It wouldn't pass UL, and a second shell around the > cord-shell junction would help double insulate the AC wires, but it does > the job.. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 12:30:47 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:30:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: <4A918028.A2414668@cs.ubc.ca> from "Brent Hilpert" at Aug 23, 9 10:45:12 am Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > Was just conversing with another fellow about these connectors for an old HP > > > counter. He found an alternative solution to work in a pinch: > > > > Any ideas what the connector he's using is? It looks like some kind of > > adapter on an IEC plug. > > Yes, it's some style of IEC-connector shell, the extra portion that apparently I wonder which one. It's certainly not a normal 'kettle plug' taht will fit this connector > fits in the old connector looks like it was intended as shroud for some sort of > non-solder or crimp style pins. I'd wondered about using Molex-style pins in home-made housing, but I couldn't think of an easy way to get strain-relief on the cable. I shall look at various IEC connectors and see if I can find one that can be modified to fit. -tony From zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com Sun Aug 23 14:17:58 2009 From: zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:17:58 -0400 Subject: Homemade Strain Relief (was: Round-pin mains leads (old HP, etc) In-Reply-To: References: <4A918028.A2414668@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090823150300.03e11210@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: >I'd wondered about using Molex-style pins in home-made housing, but I >couldn't think of an easy way to get strain-relief on the cable. Depending on the gauge / diameter of the cable, I've had pretty good luck with what we call in the US: "Hot Glue." I'm not sure if there's a different term for it in the UK. It's a semi-rigid plastic adhesive at room temperature that becomes rather "motile" or malleable (if that's the right word) when heated. I wouldn't say "liquid" by any means as it's not changing phase, AFAIK. There's two different version, a hi-temperature and low-temperature (well, at least _lower_ temp) - the low-temp stuff (to me anyway, maybe it's just the brand I have) seems more flexible at room temperature. It's quite inexpensive in the US anyway, and can be had at most any fabric / crafter shop, as it's quite handy for craftmaking. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch at 30below.com | From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sun Aug 23 14:15:49 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:15:49 -0300 Subject: OEM Screentyper / network-capable ASCII terminals? References: <4A915B72.90900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <14be01ca2427$2863bcf0$7a6d19bb@desktaba> > I wondered if maybe it was a packet monitor or some sort of data logger > rather > than a data-entry device... A photo of its' guts would easily take this question out ;) From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sun Aug 23 14:18:21 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:18:21 -0300 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> Message-ID: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> > This thread jogged my memory on the subject, see the following link > on how hard this can be. > http://sodoityourself.com/hacking-ibm-thinkpad-bios-password/ This is for the BIOS password, well different from the ATA (HD) password. As far as I know, the ATA password is unbreakable. It is stored on the platters AND the controller. So if you change controllers it would not work. From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 23 15:16:50 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:16:50 -0700 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> References: , <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <4A91A3B2.26701.15915695@cclist.sydex.com> On 23 Aug 2009 at 16:18, Alexandre Souza wrote: > As far as I know, the ATA password is unbreakable. It is stored on > the platters AND the controller. So if you change controllers it would not > work. The programs that break ATA master password protection do it by modifying the "firmware area" on disk. --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 23 16:38:57 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <20090823143550.Y43733@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Alexandre Souza wrote: > As far as I know, the ATA password is unbreakable. It is stored on the > platters AND the controller. So if you change controllers it would not work. It may not be PRACTICAL or FEASABLE to break it, but for enough money, it could be done. One way would be to design and build a replacement controller that doesn't CARE whether there is a password long enough to overwrite the password on the drive with the hash of a known password. From dgahling at hotmail.com Sun Aug 23 17:26:02 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:26:02 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <20090823143550.Y43733@shell.lmi.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> <20090823143550.Y43733@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: I note how the software all says they have to connect over the internet to download the special "procedures" and laptop drives take at least 25 minutes. something very strange going on. if anyone does this, fire up wireshark before starting and capture what the programs are sending/receiving. it'd be very interesting to know. maybe totally bogus is what I'm thinking. > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:38:57 -0700 > From: cisin at xenosoft.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Old password protected laptop drive > > On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Alexandre Souza wrote: > > As far as I know, the ATA password is unbreakable. It is stored on the > > platters AND the controller. So if you change controllers it would not work. > > It may not be PRACTICAL or FEASABLE to break it, but for enough money, it > could be done. One way would be to design and build a replacement > controller that doesn't CARE whether there is a password long enough to > overwrite the password on the drive with the hash of a known password. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Stay on top of things, check email from other accounts! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671355 From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 23 19:33:44 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:33:44 -0700 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> References: , <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <4A91DFE8.32530.167CAE73@cclist.sydex.com> On 23 Aug 2009 at 16:18, Alexandre Souza wrote: > As far as I know, the ATA password is unbreakable. It is stored on > the > platters AND the controller. So if you change controllers it would not > work. Have a look here: http://www.acelaboratory.com/pc3000.htm Apparently the way this is done is to go in via the factory connector. --Chuck From legalize at xmission.com Mon Aug 24 00:37:59 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:37:59 -0600 Subject: i860, tool chain In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:27:13 -0700. <4A902A71.50303@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: In article <4A902A71.50303 at brouhaha.com>, Eric Smith writes: > > Which gcc tool chain is the latest supporting them ? > > Probably GCC 3.4.6 from May 2006. claims that the last version to support i860 is gcc 3.1. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From dj.taylor4 at verizon.net Sun Aug 23 10:24:47 2009 From: dj.taylor4 at verizon.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:24:47 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> This thread jogged my memory on the subject, see the following link on how hard this can be. http://sodoityourself.com/hacking-ibm-thinkpad-bios-password/ Doug At 02:45 AM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 >series and I found out it is password locked. > >IBM DHAA-2540 >Security level MAX > >All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the >ATA command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To >do the latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all spaces). > >Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for that >series? If the master password was changed from default is it hosed >permanently? Any other way around it so I can use the drive? From dj.taylor4 at verizon.net Sun Aug 23 10:28:06 2009 From: dj.taylor4 at verizon.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:28:06 -0400 Subject: Programming 68764 EPROMs, redux In-Reply-To: <53F19FA7-2B4B-436A-A2FA-E472B0FE8E5B@neurotica.com> References: <4A8F24D5.20442.BD1A147@cclist.sydex.com> <53F19FA7-2B4B-436A-A2FA-E472B0FE8E5B@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112553.02438ec8@verizon.net> I have that same programmer and don't remember running into this problem. I used it on a PII 300MHz system and an zenith 386sx laptop. I'll have to dig it out and hook it up to the PIII 500MHz laptop I have (boot from floppy) since it is running linux. Doug At 06:57 PM 8/21/2009, you wrote: >On Aug 21, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >>It dawned on me that perhaps a 200MHz P1 was too fast for my parallel- >>port programmer (M2L EZ-EP). I hooked the programmer up to a 16MHz >>80386 system and bingo--the EPROMs blank-check and program correctly. >> >>Speed kills... >> >>Thanks for your suggestions. > > Doh! Ok, that's a pisser. > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >Port Charlotte, FL > From philip at axeside.co.uk Sun Aug 23 12:21:15 2009 From: philip at axeside.co.uk (Philip Belben) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:21:15 +0100 Subject: Looking for AIX 3.2.5 boot media... In-Reply-To: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> References: <4A85FC77.1090309@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4A917A8B.2080205@axeside.co.uk> Josh Dersch wrote: > Got myself an IBM RS/6000 N40 laptop (made by Tadpole -- looks identical > to the Sparcbook 3 externally) and I'm looking for OS media for it. I > believe this runs AIX 3.2.5, and that's about it. Currently there's > some version of AIX installed (the login prompt just says "3") but of > course I don't know any usernames/passwords. (If there's a way to reset > the password that doesn't require an AIX OS CD, that would be useful as > well...) Well, I've dug out what I think is an AIX 3.2.5 distribution kit. It is yours for the cost of shipping (I'm in central England). Two caveats: 1. Tadpole patched Solaris to make it run on the Sparcbook. If they did the same for AIX, this particular kit may not support your machine. 2. The boot media are 8mm video cassettes, so you will need a tape drive and the ability to boot from it. Philip. From jlobocki at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 20:43:35 2009 From: jlobocki at gmail.com (joe lobocki) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:43:35 -0500 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: if i remember, and this is a maybe, but i remember reading that hd passwords are a feature built into the drive, pretty much a security mechanism on the lowest level, and cant be erased or removed without the password, at least on a toshiba disk. maybe this will help? http://www.ja.axxs.net/unlock/ On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Teo Zenios wrote: > I recently won an IBM 540MB laptop HD for the old Thinkpad 755 series and I > found out it is password locked. > > IBM DHAA-2540 > Security level MAX > > All I want to do is erase and use the drive, to do that I run the ATA > command security erase prepare, and then security erase unit. To do the > latter you need a master password which I don't have (tried all spaces). > > Anyone happen to know what the default password would be for that series? > If the master password was changed from default is it hosed permanently? Any > other way around it so I can use the drive? > From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 24 02:06:14 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:06:14 -0700 Subject: Programming 68764 EPROMs, redux In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112553.02438ec8@verizon.net> References: <4A8F24D5.20442.BD1A147@cclist.sydex.com>, <53F19FA7-2B4B-436A-A2FA-E472B0FE8E5B@neurotica.com>, <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112553.02438ec8@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4A923BE6.26574.17E42575@cclist.sydex.com> On 23 Aug 2009 at 11:28, Douglas Taylor wrote: > I have that same programmer and don't remember running into this > problem. I used it on a PII 300MHz system and an zenith 386sx laptop. > I'll have to dig it out and hook it up to the PIII 500MHz laptop I > have (boot from floppy) since it is running linux. Doug I don't have any problem programming other EPROMs on the faster system, but the 68764s seem to be special. I'd also be interested in seeing what version of the software you have. ( I have Version 1.08.) One odd thing is that with the 68764s, a "Pulse count 1" displays for each byte while programming and eventually scrolls the display. On the faster system, it displays a single "Pulse count 25" and errors out. The other thing is that an erased EPROM will not read correctly on the fast system (gives FFs, with F3s and F7s interspersed), but reads fine on the slow system. Too bad that M2L seems to have vanished--it's a good programmer. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 24 02:10:22 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:10:22 -0700 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> References: , <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4A923CDE.32270.17E7F181@cclist.sydex.com> On 23 Aug 2009 at 11:24, Douglas Taylor wrote: > This thread jogged my memory on the subject, see the following link on > how hard this can be. > > http://sodoityourself.com/hacking-ibm-thinkpad-bios-password/ It's not a problem with the EEPROM in the Thinkpad BIOS--the drive itself has locking and encryption (two-level: user and master). Without the master password, the drive will not permit any operations involving media access. IBM claims that if you lose the master password, the drive is unusable; if you lose the user password, the drive can be restored to use, but any user data lost. I'm not aware that Teo was given anything but the Travelstar drive. --Chuck From dgahling at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 07:15:35 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:15:35 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <4A923CDE.32270.17E7F181@cclist.sydex.com> References: , <7.0.1.0.2.20090823112359.0244a798@verizon.net> <4A923CDE.32270.17E7F181@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: BIOS password can very easily be erased on any system in about 30 seconds. if it can boot floppy or cdrom or even hd it's simple and easy if it can't, and you have a standard tower/pc, its a bit more work, but still about 30-60 seconds notebooks that can't boot floppy/cdrom and replacing the hd with your own cant boot that, well yes you have to follow some crazy instructions listed on those sites. HDD passwords alone seem *very* easy to hack check out "pc-3000" (yes its $3000) or any of those others posted here like ACE labs, etc. take about 30 minutes HDD passwords alone seem to be totally insure with such software solutions. Dan. > From: cclist at sydex.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:10:22 -0700 > Subject: Re: Old password protected laptop drive > > On 23 Aug 2009 at 11:24, Douglas Taylor wrote: > > > This thread jogged my memory on the subject, see the following link on > > how hard this can be. > > > > http://sodoityourself.com/hacking-ibm-thinkpad-bios-password/ > > It's not a problem with the EEPROM in the Thinkpad BIOS--the drive > itself has locking and encryption (two-level: user and master). > Without the master password, the drive will not permit any operations > involving media access. IBM claims that if you lose the master > password, the drive is unusable; if you lose the user password, the > drive can be restored to use, but any user data lost. > > I'm not aware that Teo was given anything but the Travelstar drive. > > --Chuck > _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 From devonstopps at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 10:16:07 2009 From: devonstopps at gmail.com (Devon Stopps) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:16:07 -0400 Subject: FREE: 2x AlphaPC 164UX (600MHz?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A92AEB7.8070906@gmail.com> I have two AlphaPC 164UX workstations available. I believe they are 600MHz and complete. Free for the cost of shipping or pickup in Kingston, ON. From legalize at xmission.com Mon Aug 24 14:19:54 2009 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:19:54 -0600 Subject: OEM Screentyper / network-capable ASCII terminals? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:08:34 -0500. <4A915B72.90900@gmail.com> Message-ID: In article <4A915B72.90900 at gmail.com>, Jules Richardson writes: > From what I'm told it sounds very like a text-mode ASCII dumb terminal (Z80 > CPU, ASCII display, diskless) - yet it has a network port on the back, rather > than an RS-232 connection to some other intelligent machine. Chances are its just a serial port but with a network cable style connector. The easiest thing would be to open it up and see what kind of chips the connector talks to -- if its a UART, then its RS-232 over a funky connector. If its an ethernet chip, well then you have something oddball. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 14:57:32 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:57:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: OEM Screentyper / network-capable ASCII terminals? In-Reply-To: from "Richard" at Aug 24, 9 01:19:54 pm Message-ID: > > > In article <4A915B72.90900 at gmail.com>, > Jules Richardson writes: > > > From what I'm told it sounds very like a text-mode ASCII dumb terminal (Z80 > > CPU, ASCII display, diskless) - yet it has a network port on the back, rather > > than an RS-232 connection to some other intelligent machine. > > Chances are its just a serial port but with a network cable style > connector. What is a 'network cable style connector'? If you mean a BNC socket, then it can't be a normal RS232 port, since that needs at least 3 connections (TxD, RxD, ground). Or is it an RJ45 (which could be RS232), or a DA15, or what? Is this the only external connector (other than mains)? It's not uncommon for there to be a BNC socket on video terminals. Not a network connection, but composite video out to an external monitor. -tony From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 24 15:29:22 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:29:22 -0500 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <4A91DFE8.32530.167CAE73@cclist.sydex.com> References: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> <4A91DFE8.32530.167CAE73@cclist.sydex.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090824145701.04b81c08@mail.threedee.com> At 07:33 PM 8/23/2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: >Have a look here: >http://www.acelaboratory.com/pc3000.htm >Apparently the way this is done is to go in via the factory >connector. Looks cool. No price? I'm afraid to ask. - John From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 15:49:17 2009 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:49:17 +0100 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20090824145701.04b81c08@mail.threedee.com> References: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> <4A91DFE8.32530.167CAE73@cclist.sydex.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20090824145701.04b81c08@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: <4A92FCCD.8020108@aurigae.demon.co.uk> John Foust wrote: > At 07:33 PM 8/23/2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Have a look here: >> http://www.acelaboratory.com/pc3000.htm >> Apparently the way this is done is to go in via the factory >> connector. > > Looks cool. Indeed, I want one.... > > No price? I'm afraid to ask. If you need to ask you prolly can't afford it :) :) :) Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com Mon Aug 24 17:20:01 2009 From: zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:20:01 -0400 Subject: FREE: 2x AlphaPC 164UX (600MHz?) In-Reply-To: <4A92AEB7.8070906@gmail.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090824181830.05265008@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Devon Stopps may have mentioned these words: >I have two AlphaPC 164UX workstations available. I believe they are >600MHz and complete. Free for the cost of shipping or pickup in Kingston, ON. If Ontario was the same size as Rhode Island, I could retrieve them. It just goes to prove (once again) that everything's just too darned far away from Sault Ste. Marie. Laterz, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch at 30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From evan at snarc.net Mon Aug 24 18:28:40 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:28:40 -0400 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update Message-ID: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> Hi everyone. Some updates re: VCF East 6.0: Sellam is working on the vintage.org site; he says the problem is his AT&T high-speed connection. A tech is coming to look at it tomorrow morning PST. If it's not fixed then Sellam will temporarily host the site elsewhere. He and I both apologize for the inconvenience. We're up to 18 exhibitors so far, and I've heard that people are coming from California, Florida, New Hampshire, and Ohio. So, the rest of you cctalkers have no more excuses. :) Looking for lodging nearby the VCF East? Our venue is at 2201 Marconi Rd., Wall, N.J., 07719. There are several mainstream motel/hotel chains nearby. Anyone who arrives Friday night (Sept. 11) to help us set up gets a free VCF t-shirt. This year's shirts are black with a very cool (and funny) server room design in bright green. Vince Briel is still taking registrations for his PockeTerm workshop. It's only $60. While the VCF site is down you can directly access Vince's site at http://www.brielcomputers.com/workshop.html .... the workshop is Sept. 12 at 10am. David Ahl, of the former Creative Computing magazine, will lecture on famous blunders in microcomputer history, Sunday at 1pm. His lecture was an audience favorite at VCF East 4.0 in 2006. Saturday at noon is the first-ever VCF music concert! The warm-up act is MARCH's own Bill Degnan who will perform "Fool on the Hill" on his Altair 8800, exactly as done by Steve Dompier at the Homebrew Computer Club in 1975. The BASIC Programming Challenge. Go wild. Live restoration of an IBM 026 keypunch on our exhibit floor. Bring your kids!! Tickets are FREE for ages 17 and younger. - Evan From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Mon Aug 24 18:30:37 2009 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VCF East 6.0 update In-Reply-To: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Evan Koblentz wrote: > Live restoration of an IBM 026 keypunch on our exhibit floor. That would be an 029, not an 026. :-) Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Aug 24 19:01:25 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:25 -0600 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update In-Reply-To: References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> Message-ID: <4A9329D5.1010507@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Loewen wrote: > On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Evan Koblentz wrote: > >> Live restoration of an IBM 026 keypunch on our exhibit floor. > > That would be an 029, not an 026. :-) What keypunch is it , that 'has a monkey typing on it?,' to describe keyboarding errors? > Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ > From dgahling at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 22:39:58 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:39:58 -0400 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20090824145701.04b81c08@mail.threedee.com> References: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> <4A91DFE8.32530.167CAE73@cclist.sydex.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20090824145701.04b81c08@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: price I found online was $2,887 euros... ouch! > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:29:22 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > From: jfoust at threedee.com > Subject: Re: Old password protected laptop drive > > At 07:33 PM 8/23/2009, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >Have a look here: > >http://www.acelaboratory.com/pc3000.htm > >Apparently the way this is done is to go in via the factory > >connector. > > Looks cool. No price? I'm afraid to ask. > > - John > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671356 From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 24 23:02:30 2009 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:02:30 -0500 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive In-Reply-To: References: <14bf01ca2427$298b7410$7a6d19bb@desktaba> <4A91DFE8.32530.167CAE73@cclist.sydex.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20090824145701.04b81c08@mail.threedee.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090824230148.04acce30@mail.threedee.com> At 10:39 PM 8/24/2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: >price I found online was $2,887 euros... ouch! If the web site had a slightly goofy feel to its English, makes you wonder what the manual and the software will be like. - John From silent700 at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 23:30:27 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:30:27 -0500 Subject: FFS: CP/M and other books Message-ID: <51ea77730908242130q433b0106i68b0144abb921bfe@mail.gmail.com> Here are two sets of books I will send out free for the cost of shipping. I've grouped the CP/M ones together, but the others I will piece out. Of course if you want both sets, I'll do that, too. Most of them show a little bit of basement mold, but nothing severe. Here they are: CP/M ---- CP/M Solutions - Ken Barbier CP/M Techniques - Ken Barbier Mastering CP/M - Alan R. Miller The Programmer's CP/M Handbook (Hardcover) - Andy Johnson-Laird Programmer's Guide to CP/M - Sol Libes Others ------ System 370 Job Control Language - Gary DeWard Brown Thinking About [TLC] Logo - John R. Allen Master Handbook of Microprocessor Chips - Charles K. Adams (TAB Books 1981) Radio Shack's How to Program the Z80 - Rodnay Zaks Programming a Personal Computer - Per Brinch Hansen Programming in C on the IBM PC - Bryan J Cummings & Lawrence Pollack The Small-C Handbook - James E. Hendrix Shipping is USPS from 60074 zip. -- jht From shumaker at att.net Tue Aug 25 05:32:15 2009 From: shumaker at att.net (shumaker at att.net) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:32:15 +0000 Subject: FFS: CP/M and other books In-Reply-To: <51ea77730908242130q433b0106i68b0144abb921bfe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <082520091032.22006.4A93BDAF0002E862000055F622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C@att.net> Jason! I will gladly take both sets off your hands if they've not been spoken for yet! Steve Shumaker -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Jason T > > Here are two sets of books I will send out free for the cost of > shipping. I've grouped the CP/M ones together, but the others I will > piece out. Of course if you want both sets, I'll do that, too. Most > of them show a little bit of basement mold, but nothing severe. Here > they are: > > CP/M > ---- > CP/M Solutions - Ken Barbier > CP/M Techniques - Ken Barbier > Mastering CP/M - Alan R. Miller > The Programmer's CP/M Handbook (Hardcover) - Andy Johnson-Laird > Programmer's Guide to CP/M - Sol Libes > > Others > ------ > System 370 Job Control Language - Gary DeWard Brown > Thinking About [TLC] Logo - John R. Allen > Master Handbook of Microprocessor Chips - Charles K. Adams (TAB Books 1981) > Radio Shack's How to Program the Z80 - Rodnay Zaks > Programming a Personal Computer - Per Brinch Hansen > Programming in C on the IBM PC - Bryan J Cummings & Lawrence Pollack > The Small-C Handbook - James E. Hendrix > > Shipping is USPS from 60074 zip. > > -- > jht From silent700 at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 11:55:23 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:55:23 -0500 Subject: FFS: CP/M and other books In-Reply-To: <082520091032.22006.4A93BDAF0002E862000055F622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C@att.net> References: <51ea77730908242130q433b0106i68b0144abb921bfe@mail.gmail.com> <082520091032.22006.4A93BDAF0002E862000055F622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C@att.net> Message-ID: <51ea77730908250955k476d9bande619722c1d6a532@mail.gmail.com> Hi Steve - two books have been claimed (the JCL one and the Microprocessor Guide,) but if you'd like all the rest, they're yours. Send me an address and I'll get them boxed up. -jason On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 5:32 AM, wrote: > Jason! > > I will gladly take both sets off your hands if they've not been spoken for yet! > > Steve Shumaker From silent700 at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 11:56:50 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:56:50 -0500 Subject: FFS: CP/M and other books In-Reply-To: <51ea77730908250955k476d9bande619722c1d6a532@mail.gmail.com> References: <51ea77730908242130q433b0106i68b0144abb921bfe@mail.gmail.com> <082520091032.22006.4A93BDAF0002E862000055F622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C@att.net> <51ea77730908250955k476d9bande619722c1d6a532@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51ea77730908250956g6e8c2f2egc17cc20d48081a6c@mail.gmail.com> Sorry - that should have been a direct reply. The books have been claimed. Thanks to all who replied. -j On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Jason T wrote: > Hi Steve - two books have been claimed (the JCL one ?and the > Microprocessor Guide,) but if you'd like all the rest, they're yours. > Send me an address and I'll get them boxed up. From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Tue Aug 25 18:22:21 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:22:21 -0400 Subject: FREE: 2x AlphaPC 164UX (600MHz?) In-Reply-To: <4A92AEB7.8070906@gmail.com> References: <4A92AEB7.8070906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A94722D.3030104@compsys.to> >Devon Stopps wrote: > I have two AlphaPC 164UX workstations available. I believe they are > 600MHz and complete. Free for the cost of shipping or pickup in > Kingston, ON. I am wondering if these systems are able to run VMS? Can anyone advise? Jerome Fine From g-wright at att.net Tue Aug 25 19:06:09 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:06:09 +0000 Subject: Looking for SGI ONYX Keybaord, Mouse and front cover Message-ID: <082620090006.41.4A947C7100097D070000002922230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> Anyone have some Onyx parts out there. These are Desk side units. One needs just the drive cover the other is missing both the front and back covers. I also would like to find some Keyboards and mice for the same. - Thanks, Jerry From g-wright at att.net Tue Aug 25 19:10:27 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:10:27 +0000 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers Message-ID: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell - Jerry From g-wright at att.net Tue Aug 25 19:18:08 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:18:08 +0000 Subject: Wang PC spares, any one in need, Free Message-ID: <082620090018.11975.4A947F3F000E5AE800002EC722230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> These are the older 8086 Wangs. the Model is PC-02 there quit large for a PC. Have the boards, case and Power supply. located in Kent, WA. Free for the Price of shipping - Jerry From g-wright at att.net Tue Aug 25 19:27:11 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:27:11 +0000 Subject: Apollo DN 10000 skins, free, Kent, Wa. Message-ID: <082620090027.21914.4A94815F000786FB0000559A22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> the last of my DN 10000's is on its way out. Not much left inside except the Power Supply. Does have fairly clean skins. located in Kent, Wa. - Jerry From rescue at hawkmountain.net Tue Aug 25 20:54:30 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:54:30 -0400 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> Message-ID: <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> g-wright at att.net wrote: > Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing > 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell > > - Jerry > > > eh... 3/280 is a full rack system.... deskside would be 3/260, no ? -- Curt From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Aug 25 21:34:03 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:34:03 -0400 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> On Tue, August 25, 2009 9:54 pm, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: >> Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing >> 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell >> >> - Jerry >> >> >> > eh... 3/280 is a full rack system.... > > deskside would be 3/260, no ? Yup...at Digex in 1993, we coined the "3/270", which is a 3/260 with its wheels removed placed on a wooden shelf in a rack. :) But more properly, a x/x80 is a cube-shaped 12-slot rackmount chassis. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From ploopster at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 21:58:37 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:58:37 -0400 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <4A94A4DD.6060004@gmail.com> Dave McGuire wrote: >>> Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing >>> 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell >>> >> eh... 3/280 is a full rack system.... >> >> deskside would be 3/260, no ? > > Yup...at Digex in 1993, we coined the "3/270", which is a 3/260 with its > wheels removed placed on a wooden shelf in a rack. :) But more > properly, a x/x80 is a cube-shaped 12-slot rackmount chassis. Which is my favorite VME chassis. I have two of them. I'd love to have more. Peace... Sridhar From rescue at hawkmountain.net Tue Aug 25 22:38:52 2009 From: rescue at hawkmountain.net (Curtis H. Wilbar Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:38:52 -0400 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <4A94AE4C.70200@hawkmountain.net> Dave McGuire wrote: > On Tue, August 25, 2009 9:54 pm, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: > >>> Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing >>> 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell >>> >>> - Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> >> eh... 3/280 is a full rack system.... >> >> deskside would be 3/260, no ? >> > > Yup...at Digex in 1993, we coined the "3/270", which is a 3/260 with its > wheels removed placed on a wooden shelf in a rack. :) But more > properly, a x/x80 is a cube-shaped 12-slot rackmount chassis. > How similar are the 3/470 and 3/480 chassis ? the 470 is a large 'cube' deskside.... the 480 rackmount.... but wonder how similar they were in construction... I don't recall the 480 using the two (long) drive carriers that the 470 used... so they probably were different. I'd personally like to find a X/X60 in nice shape.... I've got a X/X50 and a few X/X10 chassis.... but not one of the old brown desksides. A 4/260 badged one would be ideal... but I'd love to find any of those. (I've got the original drives (300M ESDI) and bridge controllers... a tape drive and MD21 bridge... and I think I even have a bracket or two from the insides.... (I stripped the drives and bridge controllers out of 2-3 of these years ago). -- Curt > -Dave > > From g-wright at att.net Tue Aug 25 23:06:14 2009 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright at att.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:06:14 +0000 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <082620090406.11081.4A94B4B60001913D00002B4922243323629B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> -------------- Original message from "Curtis H. Wilbar Jr." : -------------- > g-wright at att.net wrote: > > Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing > > 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell > > > > - Jerry > > > > > > > eh... 3/280 is a full rack system.... > > deskside would be 3/260, no ? > > -- Curt Sorry my typo, It is a 3-260 That would be a tall desk - Jerry From Paul_Koning at Dell.com Tue Aug 25 10:59:08 2009 From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com (Paul Koning) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:59:08 -0400 Subject: Unibus bits Message-ID: <19092.2636.385410.690127@pkoning-laptop.equallogic.com> One of my colleagues was cleaning out an old lab and came across some modules. I don't have any use for them but I figured someone here does. I have one M9014 "Unibus to H854 adapter board". (What is that, anyway?) Also, three M9202, those are the Unibus jumper cards with 2-3 feet or so of Unibus cable inside. If I remember right, those were supposed to be used to break up a long Unibus. I suppose they are acceptable as substitutes for the regular (M920) Unibus jumper. Any interest, please drop me an email. paul From pinball at telus.net Tue Aug 25 13:56:35 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:56:35 -0700 Subject: New Old Stock - backup tapes - DC 600A Message-ID: <4A9433E3.3050203@telus.net> I have three (3) of these sealed 3M data tapes that I am happy to send off to someone who really needs them. Just pay for the postage (something like $15 to $20 to send to USA), or pick them up at my shop here in Vancouver, BC. 60MB X 3 tapes - Wow! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From donorth at cisco.com Wed Aug 26 00:10:57 2009 From: donorth at cisco.com (Don North (donorth)) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:10:57 -0700 Subject: PDP-8/11 bus interfacing ICs Message-ID: <439380B1A0C20B4FAF592EAC7330799E038D8F09@xmb-sjc-239.amer.cisco.com> Tobias Russell toby at coreware.co.uk Sun Aug 2 12:20:17 CDT 2009 * Previous message: I'm sure someone has info on this... * Next message: MacLynx 2-7-1 sources * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] _____ I've just got some prototyping boards from Douglas Electronics that I'm planning on using to build some prototype cards for my -8s and -11s. My intentions are to develop an interface to a PC to implement some virtual storage devices. If all goes well I'd like produce these cards in small volumes and so I'm keen to use off the shelf components as far as possible. The main problem of course is the bus receivers and drivers as these are pretty much unobtainable as far as I can tell. I'd therefore like to find suitable alternatives. Does anyone have any suggestions of suitable devices? Examples of chips I'm looking to replace are the DEC 8881 driver, DEC 8640 (or DEC 380) receiver. Thanks, Toby Search the CCtech archives for 'unibus transceiver': http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/mmsearch/cctech?config=cctech&restrict=&exclude=&method=and&format=short&sort=score&words=unibus+transceiver Alternatively google for 'Am26s10cn'. It is about the closest to a true unibus transceiver that is still available (in a DIP package even). TI makes it, available from DigiKey. Don From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Aug 26 01:08:04 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:08:04 -0400 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <4A94AE4C.70200@hawkmountain.net> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> <4A94AE4C.70200@hawkmountain.net> Message-ID: <8F1A7136-7856-4FD7-BF96-7AB36114946F@neurotica.com> On Aug 25, 2009, at 11:38 PM, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote: > How similar are the 3/470 and 3/480 chassis ? the 470 is a large > 'cube' deskside.... the 480 rackmount.... but wonder how similar > they were in construction... I don't recall the 480 using the two > (long) drive carriers that the 470 used... so they probably were > different. They're totally different in nearly every aspect. They're something like a decade apart. > I'd personally like to find a X/X60 in nice shape.... I've got a > X/X50 and a few X/X10 chassis.... but not one of the old brown > desksides. A 4/260 badged one would be ideal... but I'd love to > find any of those. (I've got the original drives (300M ESDI) and > bridge controllers... a tape drive and MD21 bridge... and I think > I even have a bracket or two from the insides.... (I stripped the > drives and bridge controllers out of 2-3 of these years ago). They're pretty tough to find now. About twenty of them (Digex) got trashed in Maryland several years ago; I was unable to save them (1000mi away and no money) but I tried. I *think* there might be one left in my storage locker. I will check the next time I'm there. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Aug 26 01:18:35 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:18:35 -0400 Subject: wanted Sun 3-280 Desk side top cover and fillers In-Reply-To: <4A94A4DD.6060004@gmail.com> References: <082620090010.3502.4A947D72000EF37100000DAE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <4A9495D6.7070601@hawkmountain.net> <59fd8dcdf68ab7618f3ce411999ebbdc.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> <4A94A4DD.6060004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3FB4AC44-5D1A-4C65-BBFF-2B617209BA3F@neurotica.com> On Aug 25, 2009, at 10:58 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: >>>> Missing the top cover on a Sum 3-280 desk side. Also missing >>>> 6 fillers for the open slots. Anyone have spares they would sell >>>> >>> eh... 3/280 is a full rack system.... >>> >>> deskside would be 3/260, no ? >> Yup...at Digex in 1993, we coined the "3/270", which is a 3/260 >> with its >> wheels removed placed on a wooden shelf in a rack. :) But more >> properly, a x/x80 is a cube-shaped 12-slot rackmount chassis. > > Which is my favorite VME chassis. I have two of them. I'd love to > have more. They really are nice chassis. To toot my own horn a bit, I built some of the very first of what are now known as "blade servers" by putting three of those 12-slot VME chassis in a 6' rack and populating each with six independent Sun-3/60 boards, all net-booted via daisy-chained 10base2. They only drew power from the VME connector, and as such were completely independent machines. Digex sold them in starting in mid-1993 as the "Private Domain" product. Most had 4MB of RAM, but some had as much as 12MB. Most early customers used them as private shell servers (The Washington Post, for example, twp.com) and telnetted in to read email via pine/elm/ etc. Only toward the end of their lives did they come to be used as web servers, running NCSA httpd. Sun said it couldn't work; they told me that on the phone while I was leaning against a rack of them. =) At one point there were close to 200 of them running. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Aug 26 02:41:01 2009 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:41:01 +0200 Subject: Looking for SGI ONYX Keybaord, Mouse and front cover In-Reply-To: <082620090006.41.4A947C7100097D070000002922230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> References: <082620090006.41.4A947C7100097D070000002922230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> Message-ID: <20090826094101.8c9edee3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:06:09 +0000 g-wright at att.net wrote: > I also would like to find some Keyboards and mice for the same. AFAIK the Indigo uses the same keyboards and mice, probably with a diferent connector on the machine end of the cable. So you can use: http://rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ploopster at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 03:13:24 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:13:24 -0400 Subject: Looking for SGI ONYX Keybaord, Mouse and front cover In-Reply-To: <20090826094101.8c9edee3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <082620090006.41.4A947C7100097D070000002922230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF9B0809079D99D309@att.net> <20090826094101.8c9edee3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <4A94EEA4.4000906@gmail.com> Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:06:09 +0000 > g-wright at att.net wrote: > >> I also would like to find some Keyboards and mice for the same. > AFAIK the Indigo uses the same keyboards and mice, probably with a > diferent connector on the machine end of the cable. So you can use: > http://rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm Nope. The keyboard connector is identical in every way to that of the Indigo. The Crimson keyboard speaks the same protocol and levels on a different connector. Peace... Sridhar From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 17:43:30 2009 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:43:30 +0200 Subject: DATARAM unkown memory board help Message-ID: Hi, I have this DATARAM board, which only says "40734 rev B" on the solder side. It's populated with 2 x 18 MK4116 memory chips, so I guess it gives a total of 32 Kw. I don't know how to map it correctly in my PDP 11/05 address space, given that it already has a 4kw core memory mapped from 24 to 28 K. The 11/05 originally came with this setup, but I can't locate the MOS memory by LOAD/DEP/EXAM values every 4K from the front panel. The red led goes off when the bus is reset, and the green one is on. Does anybody know this card and the jumpers settings? Picture: http://www.conservatique.com/pdp/pdp-1105 Thanks! -- Stephane http://3w.posterous.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 26 21:52:51 2009 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:52:51 -0700 Subject: PDP-8/11 bus interfacing ICs In-Reply-To: <439380B1A0C20B4FAF592EAC7330799E038D8F09@xmb-sjc-239.amer.cisco.com> References: <439380B1A0C20B4FAF592EAC7330799E038D8F09@xmb-sjc-239.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <4A95F503.10807@brouhaha.com> Don North wrote: > Alternatively google for 'Am26s10cn'. It is about the closest to a true unibus transceiver that is still available (in a DIP package even). > TI makes it, available from DigiKey. > Unfortunately the max Vil and min Vih for the 26S10 are significantly different than the DEC specs. For a small system you might be able to get away with using it, but noise immunity and general reliability will be worse. Eric From ak6dn at mindspring.com Thu Aug 27 00:15:34 2009 From: ak6dn at mindspring.com (Don North) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:15:34 -0700 Subject: PDP-8/11 bus interfacing ICs In-Reply-To: <4A95F503.10807@brouhaha.com> References: <439380B1A0C20B4FAF592EAC7330799E038D8F09@xmb-sjc-239.amer.cisco.com> <4A95F503.10807@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4A961676.405@mindspring.com> Eric Smith wrote: > Don North wrote: >> Alternatively google for 'Am26s10cn'. It is about the closest to a >> true unibus transceiver that is still available (in a DIP package even). >> TI makes it, available from DigiKey. >> > Unfortunately the max Vil and min Vih for the 26S10 are significantly > different than the DEC specs. For a small system you might be able to > get away with using it, but noise immunity and general reliability > will be worse. > > Eric > > This is all well understood, and discussed in detail in the CCtech thread from a couple of years ago that I referenced. As part of the discussion I did an input vs output comparison of the two parts: http://www.ak6dn.com/stuff/26S10vs8641.jpg The 26s10 has an input threshold of 2.0V +/- 0.25V, where the original DS8640/41 had an input threshold of 1.5V +/- 0.2V. UNIBUS terminates all the bussed signals to 3.5V, so you indeed lose 0.5V of high side noise margin using the 26s10 vs an 8641 (but you also gain 0.5V of low side margin). Indeed, with the 26s10 the high and low margins are now symmetric (3.5-2.0=1.5; 2.0-0.5=1.5); with the original 8641 they were very asymmetric (3.5-1.5=2.0; 1.5-0.5=1.0). The 26s10 is also faster, both in terms of Tpd and edge rate compared to the older device. So for very long UNIBUSes, this may present more of a problem with reflections. But the botom line is the DS864X parts are essentialy unobtanium, whereas you can buy the 26s10 parts (still made by TI) from DigiKey today for a very reasonable price (~$1). Don From evan at snarc.net Thu Aug 27 01:05:43 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:05:43 -0400 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update In-Reply-To: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> Message-ID: <4A962237.9040509@snarc.net> Vintage.org is FINALLY back up, but Sellam isn't sure about how long it will STAY working. He said the problem was because of a company called DSL Extreme (or something like that). > Hi everyone. > > Some updates re: VCF East 6.0: > > Sellam is working on the vintage.org site; he says the problem is his > AT&T high-speed connection. A tech is coming to look at it tomorrow > morning PST. If it's not fixed then Sellam will temporarily host the > site elsewhere. He and I both apologize for the inconvenience. > > We're up to 18 exhibitors so far, and I've heard that people are > coming from California, Florida, New Hampshire, and Ohio. So, the > rest of you cctalkers have no more excuses. :) > > Looking for lodging nearby the VCF East? Our venue is at 2201 Marconi > Rd., Wall, N.J., 07719. There are several mainstream motel/hotel > chains nearby. Anyone who arrives Friday night (Sept. 11) to help us > set up gets a free VCF t-shirt. This year's shirts are black with a > very cool (and funny) server room design in bright green. > > Vince Briel is still taking registrations for his PockeTerm workshop. > It's only $60. While the VCF site is down you can directly access > Vince's site at http://www.brielcomputers.com/workshop.html .... the > workshop is Sept. 12 at 10am. > > David Ahl, of the former Creative Computing magazine, will lecture on > famous blunders in microcomputer history, Sunday at 1pm. His lecture > was an audience favorite at VCF East 4.0 in 2006. > > Saturday at noon is the first-ever VCF music concert! The warm-up act > is MARCH's own Bill Degnan who will perform "Fool on the Hill" on his > Altair 8800, exactly as done by Steve Dompier at the Homebrew Computer > Club in 1975. > > The BASIC Programming Challenge. Go wild. > > Live restoration of an IBM 026 keypunch on our exhibit floor. > > Bring your kids!! Tickets are FREE for ages 17 and younger. > > - Evan > From jonas at otter.se Wed Aug 26 01:55:10 2009 From: jonas at otter.se (Jonas Otter) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:55:10 +0200 Subject: Old password protected laptop drive Message-ID: <000601ca261a$27a2db30$76e89190$@se> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:02:30 -0500, John Foust jfoust at threedee.com wrote: >At 10:39 PM 8/24/2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: >>price I found online was $2,887 euros... ouch! > >If the web site had a slightly goofy feel to its English, makes you wonder what the manual and the software >will be like. > >- John Well, they are Russian. Is your Russian less goofy than their English? From jgkoomey at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 08:03:04 2009 From: jgkoomey at gmail.com (Jonathan Koomey) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:03:04 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers Message-ID: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> Hello all, I'm doing an analysis of trends in the energy efficiency of computation over time (for details, see the first report listed at http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/ecotech) . I'm using standardized performance measure from previous work by Bill Nordhaus at Yale, and then attaching measured power use to the machines for which Bill estimated performance. I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1, PDP-4, and PDP-8 from Gordon Bell (now at Microsoft, who worked on these machines back in the day) but am seeking measured power use for some of the other machines listed below. I understand that some of these machines may not be unitary and so power measurements are more complicated. I'm interested in the sum of power consumption for the CPU, memory, and hard drives for typical configuration of the machines listed below. Ideally, this power measurement would be taken when the machine is running full bore, but I'll take what I can get. Does anyone have any measured power use handy? Thanks, Jon Koomey Power use Watts 1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell 1962 DEC PDP-4 1125 From Gordon Bell 1965 DEC PDP-8 780 From Gordon Bell 1968 DEC PDP-10 (KA10) 1971 DEC PDP-11/20 1972 DEC PDP-11/05 (11/10) 1972 DEC PDP-11/45 1972 DEC PDP-10 (KI10) 1973 DEC PDP-11/40 1975 DEC PDP-11/03 (LSI-11) 1975 DEC PDP-11/04 1975 DEC PDP-11/70 1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060) 1976 DEC PDP-11/34 1976 DEC PDP-11/55 1977 DEC PDP-11/60 1978 DEC PDP-11/34C 1978 Digital VAX 780 1979 DEC VAX 11/780 1983 DEC VAX 11/730 1983 Digital VAX 750 1985 DEC VAX 11/750 1985 DEC VAX 11/780 1986 DEC VAX 8550 1987 DEC VAX 8350 1990 DEC VAX 6000-210 1990 DEC VAX 6000-460 1993 DEC 7000-610 1994 DEC 10000-610 1997 DEC 8400/5/350 x6 __________________________________ Jonathan G. Koomey, Ph.D. Project Scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Consulting Professor, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford University From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 27 16:46:49 2009 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:46:49 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Jonathan Koomey wrote: > I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1 > > Power use > Watts > 1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell I'm sure the PDP-1 restoration team would be happy to give you the figures for the machine running at the CHM. > 1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060) Rich Alderson should be able to get the figures for the 2065. Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals? From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 27 16:59:23 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Al Kossow wrote: > Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals? I was wondering this myself. This is an interesting topic, but it might be difficult to define a "standard" configuration for these machines. Even the contents of the CPU boxes can vary widely. I suspect that many on this list are like me and tend to limit what what boards are in our CPU's to just what we need. How many people really need the CIS (Commercial Instruction Set) portion of the CPU in their PDP-11/44's or 3 Serial boards for terminals? I also limit the drives to what I need typically (I've even been known to unplug CD drives on PC's). Zane From dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net Thu Aug 27 17:44:44 2009 From: dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:44:44 -0500 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it. (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:59 PM, "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Al Kossow wrote: > >> Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals? > > I was wondering this myself. This is an interesting topic, but it > might be > difficult to define a "standard" configuration for these machines. > Even the > contents of the CPU boxes can vary widely. I suspect that many on > this list > are like me and tend to limit what what boards are in our CPU's to > just what > we need. How many people really need the CIS (Commercial > Instruction Set) > portion of the CPU in their PDP-11/44's or 3 Serial boards for > terminals? I > also limit the drives to what I need typically (I've even been known > to > unplug CD drives on PC's). > > Zane > From caveguy at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 27 18:18:44 2009 From: caveguy at sbcglobal.net (Bob Bradlee) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:18:44 -0400 Subject: Way off topic Ham radio Question ! In-Reply-To: <4A962237.9040509@snarc.net> Message-ID: <200908272319.n7RNIxxh029615@billY.EZWIND.NET> Sorry to go so far off topic, but I know there are a bunch of Ham's on this list. How can I find out who "Frank W7DXZ" was in December 1947 ? If anyone has an old Calbook from the 40's it would likely be someone on this list ! Sorry for the interuption, back to the normal chatter :) The Other Bob From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 27 18:20:03 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the KS10 > because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it. So you have your KS10 running now days? I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat. > (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed that > farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) No comment. Zane From ploopster at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 18:27:29 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:27:29 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> Daniel Seagraves wrote: > I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the > KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it. > > (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed > that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) "Why are you laughing at me?" "I'm laughing at you because you're a moron." Peace... Sridhar From dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net Thu Aug 27 18:33:58 2009 From: dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:33:58 -0500 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> Yes, if "running" means "turned on and executing instructions". I've been (very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run an OS yet. So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape on it (both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. That project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done. I make it a point to let it run at least a few minutes a month so the caps don't dry out. I'd feel terrible if I neglected it to death. I've already done enough damage. On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > >> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running >> the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" >> to run it. > > So you have your KS10 running now days? > > I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not > that it > stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. > The > fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on > a > Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less > heat. > >> (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed >> that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) > > No comment. > > Zane > From dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net Thu Aug 27 18:37:31 2009 From: dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:37:31 -0500 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0d499f914656ee598cac81a339fd9716@lunar-tokyo.net> Well, to be fair, the amount of propaganda she was raised with would make Goebbels proud. On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > Daniel Seagraves wrote: >> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running >> the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" >> to run it. >> (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed >> that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) > > "Why are you laughing at me?" > "I'm laughing at you because you're a moron." > > Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 18:38:54 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:38:54 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not > that it > stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC > gear. The > fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX > on a > Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* > less heat. ...if software is your only interest... -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 18:39:38 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:39:38 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: >> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be >> running the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically >> irresponsible" to run it. >> (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also >> believed that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) > > "Why are you laughing at me?" > "I'm laughing at you because you're a moron." The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away nearly fifteen years ago. I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. And I was only the tech contact! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 18:41:42 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:41:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <97D3F879-9A90-4F1F-891A-1DD3D0C9E2FB@neurotica.com> On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: >> I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. >> Not that it >> stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC >> gear. The >> fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or >> VAX on a >> Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* >> less heat. > > ...if software is your only interest... NOT poo-pooing emulators, mind you...I run them every day. (I know how touchy this crowd is!) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From wdonzelli at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 18:43:20 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:43:20 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> Message-ID: > Yes, if "running" means "turned on and executing instructions". I've been > (very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run an OS yet. > So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape on it > (both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. That > project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done. How are you loading the microcode? > I make it a point to let it run at least a few minutes a month so the caps > don't dry out. I'd feel terrible if I neglected it to death. I've already > done enough damage. This is pointless - the caps are OK, and will be OK for some time. You are probably doing more damage by power cycling the thing needlessly (even if by a tiny amount). -- Will From wdonzelli at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 18:47:14 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:47:14 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: >> 1975 ? ?DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060) > > Rich Alderson should be able to get the figures for the 2065. 0 is also a valid answer, when it comes to KL power supplies. As for a serious study, it would probably make sense to include minis outside the DEC world. Some brands were very efficient, then there was IBM. -- Will From dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net Thu Aug 27 18:50:49 2009 From: dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:50:49 -0500 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> Message-ID: <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:43 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >> Yes, if "running" means "turned on and executing instructions". I've >> been >> (very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run an >> OS yet. >> So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape on >> it >> (both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. That >> project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done. > > How are you loading the microcode? Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program that sends over the microcode and software. It takes a long time. > This is pointless - the caps are OK, and will be OK for some time. You > are probably doing more damage by power cycling the thing needlessly > (even if by a tiny amount). Well, I was letting it warm up when it ran, I know better than to just turn it on and just off again. How long is it safe to let it sit, then? (There's also the fans to worry about.) From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 18:51:55 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:51:55 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:47 PM, William Donzelli wrote: > As for a serious study, it would probably make sense to include minis > outside the DEC world. Some brands were very efficient, then there was > IBM. Urr? Are IBM's power supply designs less efficient than others, or is it a matter of system-wide consumption? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 18:53:52 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:53:52 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> Message-ID: On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:50 PM, Daniel Seagraves wrote: >>> Yes, if "running" means "turned on and executing instructions". >>> I've been >>> (very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run >>> an OS yet. >>> So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape >>> on it >>> (both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. >>> That >>> project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done. >> >> How are you loading the microcode? > > Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program > that sends over the microcode and software. > It takes a long time. I'll bet. Would you be interested in sharing this? I'd like to fire up my KS10 one of these days. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 27 18:56:28 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <97D3F879-9A90-4F1F-891A-1DD3D0C9E2FB@neurotica.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> <97D3F879-9A90-4F1F-891A-1DD3D0C9E2FB@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: >>> I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that >>> it >>> stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The >>> fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a >>> Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat. >> >> ...if software is your only interest... > > NOT poo-pooing emulators, mind you...I run them every day. (I know how > touchy this crowd is!) And note that in that same paragraph I said I'm not about to stop running my old DEC gear, or my '72 Dodge Pickup. At the same time I make definite use of PDP-10 and PDP-11 emulators. I really can't be bothered with a VAX emulator. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 18:59:05 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:59:05 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> <97D3F879-9A90-4F1F-891A-1DD3D0C9E2FB@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <02547CA3-3217-4560-AA2A-CCB70F6CFA76@neurotica.com> On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >>>> I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. >>>> Not that it >>>> stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC >>>> gear. The >>>> fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or >>>> VAX on a >>>> Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* >>>> less heat. >>> >>> ...if software is your only interest... >> >> NOT poo-pooing emulators, mind you...I run them every day. (I >> know how touchy this crowd is!) > > And note that in that same paragraph I said I'm not about to stop > running my > old DEC gear, or my '72 Dodge Pickup. At the same time I make > definite use > of PDP-10 and PDP-11 emulators. :-) > I really can't be bothered with a VAX emulator. > Yeah, there are some VERY low-power VAXen out there that are rather quick. It does seem kinda pointless. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 27 19:02:14 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:02:14 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running > the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically > irresponsible" to run it. > > (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also > believed that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) Her parents probably drive a Hummer. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From wdonzelli at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 19:04:41 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:04:41 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> Message-ID: > Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program that sends > over the microcode and software. > It takes a long time. I did not know you could feed the brains thru the serial line - I thought it had to be from one of the few peripherals KS10s like. Good to know. > Well, I was letting it warm up when it ran, I know better than to just turn > it on and just off again. > How long is it safe to let it sit, then? (There's also the fans to worry > about.) Years. "Modern" caps do not "unform" very quickly at all. There is a much greater risk of blowing a cap because a seal has gone bad, and there is nothing that can stop that. -- Will From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 27 19:16:35 2009 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:16:35 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com>, , Message-ID: <4A9721E3.1456.C47B3F6@cclist.sydex.com> On 27 Aug 2009 at 17:44, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed > that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) And those poor naugas are needlessly slaughtered to get naugahyde... :roll: --Chuck From tpeters at mixcom.com Thu Aug 27 19:15:28 2009 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:15:28 -0500 Subject: Way off topic Ham radio Question ! In-Reply-To: <200908272319.n7RNIxxh029615@billY.EZWIND.NET> References: <4A962237.9040509@snarc.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090827190506.02e00ad8@localhost> At 07:18 PM 8/27/2009 -0400, you wrote: >Sorry to go so far off topic, but I know there are a bunch of Ham's on >this list. >How can I find out who "Frank W7DXZ" was in December 1947 ? >If anyone has an old Calbook from the 40's it would likely be someone on >this list ! >Sorry for the interuption, back to the normal chatter :) > >The Other Bob You're right, you would need someone with an old printed copy of a callbook. Someone might have digitized it, but it's probably on a CD you'd have to buy. I can tell you this, the call now belongs to a group, apparently a repeater club: W7DXZ MOTHER LODE SEARCH & RESCUE PO BOX 3975 SONORA, CA 95370 USA Sometimes the club is named in honor of an SK - "Silent Key" - a ham who has passed on. If that's the case here, you might ask the trustee of the club: K7AAT EDWARD L GALLUP, JR PO BOX 578 Florence, OR 97439 USA I don't have his email address, but a large number of hams are using the ARRL forwarding service, so you could try k7aat at arrl.net ----- 653. [Faith] When all else fails, try prayer. -- Author Unknown --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531 From dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net Thu Aug 27 19:29:41 2009 From: dseagrav at lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:29:41 -0500 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> Message-ID: On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:50 PM, Daniel Seagraves wrote: >>>> Yes, if "running" means "turned on and executing instructions". >>>> I've been >>>> (very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run >>>> an OS yet. >>>> So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape >>>> on it >>>> (both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. >>>> That >>>> project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done. >>> >>> How are you loading the microcode? >> >> Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program that >> sends over the microcode and software. >> It takes a long time. > > I'll bet. Would you be interested in sharing this? I'd like to > fire up my KS10 one of these days. Do you mean the SCSI driver or the microcode/RAM loader? The SCSI driver is pretty useless without a Viking UDT controller, but the RAM loader can be shared around. I'll pull it off the other computer later and post it. I already gave a copy to Rich (I think?). Fair warning, it's terribly simple. All it does is dump deposit commands to the console processor. One of these days I should get un-lazy and make it more clever. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 27 19:45:13 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <02547CA3-3217-4560-AA2A-CCB70F6CFA76@neurotica.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> <97D3F879-9A90-4F1F-891A-1DD3D0C9E2FB@neurotica.com> <02547CA3-3217-4560-AA2A-CCB70F6CFA76@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote: > Yeah, there are some VERY low-power VAXen out there that are rather quick. > It does seem kinda pointless. I'm not sure how low-power my VAXstation 4000/60 is, it took over my VLC's duties when the fans on the PS crapped out (just like a BA350 took over from the dead BA353). While I could get away with emulating PDXVAX, it would probably be more trouble than it's worth. There is no way I could emulate my MV III, as I use it to talk to RL01 and RL02 drives. I have more VAXen, but those are the two main ones. Zane From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 27 19:46:32 2009 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:46:32 -0700 Subject: PDP-8/11 bus interfacing ICs In-Reply-To: <4A961676.405@mindspring.com> References: <439380B1A0C20B4FAF592EAC7330799E038D8F09@xmb-sjc-239.amer.cisco.com> <4A95F503.10807@brouhaha.com> <4A961676.405@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4A9728E8.8020005@brouhaha.com> Don North wrote: > The 26s10 has an input threshold of 2.0V +/- 0.25V, where the original > DS8640/41 had an > input threshold of 1.5V +/- 0.2V. UNIBUS terminates all the bussed > signals to 3.5V, so > you indeed lose 0.5V of high side noise margin using the 26s10 vs an > 8641 (but you also > gain 0.5V of low side margin). Indeed, with the 26s10 the high and low > margins are now > symmetric (3.5-2.0=1.5; 2.0-0.5=1.5); with the original 8641 they were > very asymmetric > (3.5-1.5=2.0; 1.5-0.5=1.0). If Unibus used totem-pole drive, that would be a good thing, but it doesn't. On a heavily loaded Unibus, the signals may take significantly longer on deassertion to reach 2.0V than 1.5V. Like I said before, you can probably get away with it on smaller systems, but it's likely to be less reliable. Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 27 19:49:34 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <49a144fd163d7f80bb223fd800a1737f@lunar-tokyo.net> <137329f89675b30f8a037e7ffa597eb8@lunar-tokyo.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > Do you mean the SCSI driver or the microcode/RAM loader? > The SCSI driver is pretty useless without a Viking UDT controller, but the > RAM loader can be shared around. Viking UDT controllers aren't that hard to get, they might not be as common as a CMD controller, but I suspect they're still pretty easy to get. Much easier than PDP-10 drives. > I'll pull it off the other computer later and post it. I already gave a copy > to Rich (I think?). > Fair warning, it's terribly simple. All it does is dump deposit commands to > the console processor. > One of these days I should get un-lazy and make it more clever. You've still made pretty good progress from the sounds of things. I've been wondering if the machine was still alive, and what ever happened to it. Zane From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Aug 27 19:50:58 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <4A9721E3.1456.C47B3F6@cclist.sydex.com> from Chuck Guzis at "Aug 27, 9 05:16:35 pm" Message-ID: <200908280050.n7S0owVn015512@floodgap.com> > > (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed > > that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) > > And those poor naugas are needlessly slaughtered to get naugahyde... > :roll: Oh, how I cried the day that nauga died. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Homestar has a web site? -- Strong Bad ------------------------------------- apologies to Allan Sherman From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Aug 27 21:07:35 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: >>> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the >>> KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run >>> it. >>> (This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed that >>> farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.) >> >> "Why are you laughing at me?" >> "I'm laughing at you because you're a moron." > > The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away nearly fifteen > years ago. I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. And I was only the > tech contact! > That was an _awesome_ site Dave. I sitll miss it. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! From jhfinedp3k at compsys.to Thu Aug 27 21:24:27 2009 From: jhfinedp3k at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:24:27 -0400 Subject: Paging Jay West In-Reply-To: <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> References: <4A78CC7D.3080500@compsys.to><200908050120.23442.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4A7A15F5.9000408@compsys.to> <009801ca1645$e114ed40$c600a8c0@JWEST> Message-ID: <4A973FDB.2080207@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > Yes, saw the original emails Jerome. I read each the day you sent > them, but they didn't seem super time-sensitive so I've been dealing > with a few other things. Sorry for the slow response! > > (In my best monty python voice) But I'm not dead yet! Seems like another week has gone bye. If you are still busy, I understand and I will try again in another week. Jerome Fine From evan at snarc.net Thu Aug 27 21:53:58 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:53:58 -0400 Subject: A video teaser for VCF .... Message-ID: <4A9746C6.4000703@snarc.net> Can't wait two more weeks until VCF East 6.0 ..... me either! Here's a video montage of the exhibit hall from last year's show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mNXrKjiD78 .... enjoy! PS - We're at 20 exhibitors and counting - it's going to be the biggest VCF East yet! www.vintage.org From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Aug 27 21:53:43 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: marginal OT: one way to get Mac OS 9.2.2 for free Message-ID: <200908280253.n7S2rhaU012298@floodgap.com> ... and legally, from Apple themselves. http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=765305&tstart=517 -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Only death cures stupidity! -- "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" ------------------- From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 27 23:15:11 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:15:11 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its located in Carmel, NY 10512 I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up or make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off to a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please. Curt From d235j.1 at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 23:24:24 2009 From: d235j.1 at gmail.com (David Ryskalczyk) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:24:24 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: Looks like direct reply failed so I'm posting to the list: Can you hold on to this one for a day or two? I assume it's working. Also are any peripherals included? Thank you! --Dave On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:15 AM, "Curt @ Atari Museum" wrote: > I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, > includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of > dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its > located in Carmel, NY 10512 > > I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up > or make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off > to a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please. > > > > Curt > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 27 23:31:05 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:31:05 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <4A975D89.4050308@atarimuseum.com> Hi David, No peripherals, just the main system only with all of the extra's mentioned. The disks and tape drives are currently in active use on my mv4000 Curt David Ryskalczyk wrote: > Looks like direct reply failed so I'm posting to the list: > > Can you hold on to this one for a day or two? I assume it's working. > Also are any peripherals included? > Thank you! > > --Dave > > On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:15 AM, "Curt @ Atari Museum" > wrote: > >> I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, >> includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of dec >> schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its >> located in Carmel, NY 10512 >> >> I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up or >> make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off to >> a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please. >> >> >> >> Curt >> >> > From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 27 23:35:45 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:35:45 -0400 Subject: Anybody have Dale Lucks email? In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <4A975EA1.3090708@atarimuseum.com> Anybody have Dale Lucks current email addr??? I haven't spoken with him since like 2004 and I need to ask him a few Amiga related questions, so I am trying to get back in touch with him. Curt From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 28 00:03:44 2009 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <200908280050.n7S0owVn015512@floodgap.com> References: <200908280050.n7S0owVn015512@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20090827220247.X70652@shell.lmi.net> > And those poor naugas are needlessly slaughtered to get naugahyde... What do naugas do, besides hide? From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 28 00:34:27 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:34:27 -0700 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> <4A9759CF.5090402@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: At 12:15 AM -0400 8/28/09, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: >I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, >includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of >dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its >located in Carmel, NY 10512 > >I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up >or make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off >to a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please. I'm really glad you're about 3000 miles away, that helps me to not be tempted. :-) Besides I'm still trying to find room in our garage for my PDP-11/44. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ploopster at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 01:18:49 2009 From: ploopster at gmail.com (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:18:49 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <7C138012-01D5-4E96-A243-25DA0DDC8358@neurotica.com> <97D3F879-9A90-4F1F-891A-1DD3D0C9E2FB@neurotica.com> <02547CA3-3217-4560-AA2A-CCB70F6CFA76@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <4A9776C9.1040601@gmail.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> Yeah, there are some VERY low-power VAXen out there that are rather >> quick. It does seem kinda pointless. > > I'm not sure how low-power my VAXstation 4000/60 is, it took over my VLC's > duties when the fans on the PS crapped out (just like a BA350 took over > from > the dead BA353). While I could get away with emulating PDXVAX, it would > probably be more trouble than it's worth. There is no way I could emulate > my MV III, as I use it to talk to RL01 and RL02 drives. I have more VAXen, > but those are the two main ones. > Didn't someone make a laptop out of a VLC at some point? Peace... Sridhar From jgkoomey at stanford.edu Thu Aug 27 19:25:10 2009 From: jgkoomey at stanford.edu (Jonathan Koomey) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:25:10 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers Message-ID: <188A6902-EA6A-40A3-87D8-3A13953ABC7E@stanford.edu> Hi Zane, Forgive me if I'm not using the right method to reply as I'm new to the list. I didn't see Al Kossow's post in the archive. I think that including a peripheral might make sense if it were a big hard drive but not if it were a printer. Anything that is involved in core computations for the computer (as opposed to input or output) would be fair game. I know that these computers do vary widely but I'm willing to go with what machines are available for metering. The big uncertainty is in getting measured power use of any kind. The exact boards that are installed are not as critical. Any ideas for folks who might have metered their PDPs? And the key thing to keep in mind is that the trends in performance swamp any errors in the measurement of power use, so I just need to get in the ballpark on power for the data to be useful. Defining system boundaries is important, so the peripherals question is one that we'd need to discuss. Thanks, Jon On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Al Kossow wrote: > Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals? I was wondering this myself. This is an interesting topic, but it might be difficult to define a "standard" configuration for these machines. Even the contents of the CPU boxes can vary widely. I suspect that many on this list are like me and tend to limit what what boards are in our CPU's to just what we need. How many people really need the CIS (Commercial Instruction Set) portion of the CPU in their PDP-11/44's or 3 Serial boards for terminals? I also limit the drives to what I need typically (I've even been known to unplug CD drives on PC's). Zane Hello all, I'm doing an analysis of trends in the energy efficiency of computation over time (for details, see the first report listed at http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/ecotech) . I'm using standardized performance measure from previous work by Bill Nordhaus at Yale, and then attaching measured power use to the machines for which Bill estimated performance. I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1, PDP-4, and PDP-8 from Gordon Bell (now at Microsoft, who worked on these machines back in the day) but am seeking measured power use for some of the other machines listed below. I understand that some of these machines may not be unitary and so power measurements are more complicated. I'm interested in the sum of power consumption for the CPU, memory, and hard drives for typical configuration of the machines listed below. Ideally, this power measurement would be taken when the machine is running full bore, but I'll take what I can get. Does anyone have any measured power use handy? Thanks, Jon Koomey Power use Watts 1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell 1962 DEC PDP-4 1125 From Gordon Bell 1965 DEC PDP-8 780 From Gordon Bell 1968 DEC PDP-10 (KA10) 1971 DEC PDP-11/20 1972 DEC PDP-11/05 (11/10) 1972 DEC PDP-11/45 1972 DEC PDP-10 (KI10) 1973 DEC PDP-11/40 1975 DEC PDP-11/03 (LSI-11) 1975 DEC PDP-11/04 1975 DEC PDP-11/70 1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060) 1976 DEC PDP-11/34 1976 DEC PDP-11/55 1977 DEC PDP-11/60 1978 DEC PDP-11/34C 1978 Digital VAX 780 1979 DEC VAX 11/780 1983 DEC VAX 11/730 1983 Digital VAX 750 1985 DEC VAX 11/750 1985 DEC VAX 11/780 1986 DEC VAX 8550 1987 DEC VAX 8350 1990 DEC VAX 6000-210 1990 DEC VAX 6000-460 1993 DEC 7000-610 1994 DEC 10000-610 1997 DEC 8400/5/350 x6 __________________________________ Jonathan G. Koomey, Ph.D. Project Scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Consulting Professor, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford University __________________________________ Jonathan G. Koomey, Ph.D. Project Scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Consulting Professor, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford University P.O. Box 20313 Oakland, CA 94620 (Please Email me to get a street address before mailing anything that has time urgency to it) 510-654-9634 Home and office 510-547-7860 Msg/fax 510-708-1970 Cell jgkoomey at stanford.edu numbers at numbersintoknowledge.com http://www.numbersintoknowledge.com http://www.analyticspress.com/ http://www.koomey.com From lproven at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 07:34:14 2009 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:34:14 +0100 Subject: Computer History Museum slideshow Message-ID: <575131af0908280534n2559609djfa95697987718edd@mail.gmail.com> Old news to the New World Colonials on here, perhaps, but for we Old World types - or indeed any Antipodeans - this is an interesting gallery, with some rather ill-informed captions. http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Gallery/153867,computer-history-museum-photo-gallery-weird-fascinating-photos-including-a-giant-cray-and-a-60kg-hard-drive.aspx/1 -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 28 13:11:34 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:11:34 +0100 (BST) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 27, 9 04:20:03 pm Message-ID: > > > > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > > > I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the KS10 > > because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it. Oh, not on this list, please...! I am seriouisly thinking of declaring myself 'magenta' (this being the opposite of 'green', of course). The amount of bad science that pretends to be 'saving the planet' is rapidly getting to me. As are the totally stupid restrictions that do nothing useful (the fact that we can no longer bugy filament lamps is going to make repairing SMPSUs a lot harder, possibly leading to more electronics in the landfills. Perhaps I should just get a couple of 'greens' and use them as a series limiting resistor!). > > So you have your KS10 running now days? > > I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it > stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The > fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a > Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat. Not if you want to do something other than run the software... And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal) heating up... -tony From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Aug 28 13:28:15 2009 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 28, 9 07:11:34 pm" Message-ID: <200908281828.n7SISGfw018844@floodgap.com> > > > I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the > > > KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run > > > it. She may have not been able to see well. There is a specific cortical test for this, but you can approximate it by extending the hand's third digit in view of the test recipient and repeating it in each of their visual fields. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -- Carl Sagan -------------- From IanK at vulcan.com Fri Aug 28 13:32:45 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:32:45 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 27, 9 04:20:03 pm, Message-ID: Now there's the ecological argument: it's a room heater that also delivers computation. Can your heat pump do a Taylor series? :-) ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell [ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:11 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC > > > > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > > > I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the KS10 > > because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it. Oh, not on this list, please...! I am seriouisly thinking of declaring myself 'magenta' (this being the opposite of 'green', of course). The amount of bad science that pretends to be 'saving the planet' is rapidly getting to me. As are the totally stupid restrictions that do nothing useful (the fact that we can no longer bugy filament lamps is going to make repairing SMPSUs a lot harder, possibly leading to more electronics in the landfills. Perhaps I should just get a couple of 'greens' and use them as a series limiting resistor!). > > So you have your KS10 running now days? > > I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it > stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The > fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a > Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat. Not if you want to do something other than run the software... And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal) heating up... -tony From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Aug 28 13:35:14 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:35:14 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: <200908281828.n7SISGfw018844@floodgap.com> References: <200908281828.n7SISGfw018844@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <12A0A5C2-C7FF-48BD-818C-8F9A0CE69A81@neurotica.com> On Aug 28, 2009, at 2:28 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>>> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be >>>> running the >>>> KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" >>>> to run >>>> it. > > She may have not been able to see well. There is a specific > cortical test for > this, but you can approximate it by extending the hand's third > digit in view > of the test recipient and repeating it in each of their visual fields. soda -> monitor -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From evan at snarc.net Fri Aug 28 14:43:36 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:43:36 -0400 Subject: Still more VCF videos Message-ID: <4A983368.9080300@snarc.net> Lots of videos from last year's VCF East are on YouTube at our museum channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/MidAtlanticRetroComp#play/all ... this includes the two-minute montage, a short clip of our Straight-8, and more. T-minus two weeks until VCF East 6.0. I'm stoked! From oldcpu at rogerwilco.org Fri Aug 28 16:05:15 2009 From: oldcpu at rogerwilco.org (J Blaser) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:05:15 -0600 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... Message-ID: <4A98468B.90604@rogerwilco.org> David Ryskalczyk, on Thu Aug 27 23:24:24 CDT 2009 said > > Looks like direct reply failed so I'm posting to the list: > > Can you hold on to this one for a day or two? I assume it's working. > Also are any peripherals included? > On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:15 AM, "Curt @ Atari Museum" > wrote: > > > > I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, > > includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of > > dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its > > {snip} Ooo...TU58 tapes, for/from an 11/750! Are these by any chance the various diagnostic and maintenance tapes, i.e. BD-xxxxx-DE numbers? Finding images of that whole 11/750 series has so far been unfruitful for me, and, as it turns out, I'm just about ready (finally, after nearly two years of infrequent fiddling with faulty power supplies) to fire up my 11/750 for the first time. I'd think it would be A Good Thing to have those tapes for checking everything out. If those tapes are indeed the diagnostics, I'm up for assisting in getting them imaged. So far I have been able to gather (with the gracious help of Barry M.) tapes: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,17,20,33,41,33,44 and 51. I'd like to fill the gaps and will happily put my functioning TU58 drive to work getting more images if that is possible. Also, I'm looking for some blank/scratch TU58 tapes if anyone has some gathering dust. Happy to cover shipping, etc. Many thanks. -- Jared From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 28 17:07:25 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote: >> I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it >> stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The >> fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a >> Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat. > > Not if you want to do something other than run the software... > > And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal) > heating up... Realistically, that's the main time I have one of my PDP-11's running, in part so that I don't have to worry about cooling. For much of what I do, when I have time, an emulator is good enough. I hope to get the /73 put back together in the very near future. It has been in pieces now for basically a year. Zane From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 28 17:41:05 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:41:05 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A98468B.90604@rogerwilco.org> References: <4A98468B.90604@rogerwilco.org> Message-ID: <4A985D01.2010208@atarimuseum.com> The 11/750 comes with the TU58 tapes, you understand that, right? I'm not piece-mealing this out. Curt J Blaser wrote: > David Ryskalczyk, on Thu Aug 27 23:24:24 CDT 2009 said > > > > Looks like direct reply failed so I'm posting to the list: > > > > Can you hold on to this one for a day or two? I assume it's > working. > Also are any peripherals included? > > > On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:15 AM, "Curt @ Atari Museum" atarimuseum.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, > > > includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of > > > dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. > Its > > {snip} > > > Ooo...TU58 tapes, for/from an 11/750! Are these by any chance the > various diagnostic and maintenance tapes, i.e. BD-xxxxx-DE numbers? > Finding images of that whole 11/750 series has so far been unfruitful > for me, and, as it turns out, I'm just about ready (finally, after > nearly two years of infrequent fiddling with faulty power supplies) to > fire up my 11/750 for the first time. I'd think it would be A Good > Thing to have those tapes for checking everything out. If those tapes > are indeed the diagnostics, I'm up for assisting in getting them imaged. > > So far I have been able to gather (with the gracious help of Barry M.) > tapes: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,17,20,33,41,33,44 and 51. I'd like to fill the > gaps and will happily put my functioning TU58 drive to work getting > more images if that is possible. > > Also, I'm looking for some blank/scratch TU58 tapes if anyone has some > gathering dust. Happy to cover shipping, etc. > > Many thanks. > > -- Jared > > From ragooman at comcast.net Fri Aug 28 18:04:33 2009 From: ragooman at comcast.net (Dan Roganti) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:04:33 -0400 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update In-Reply-To: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> Message-ID: <4A986281.8000807@comcast.net> Evan Koblentz wrote: > Anyone who arrives Friday night (Sept. 11) to help us set up gets a > free VCF t-shirt. This year's shirts are black with a very cool (and > funny) server room design in bright green. T-Shirt http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/files/VCF/2009/T-Shirt_lab-8cc.gif =Dan [ = http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/ ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 28 18:31:27 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:31:27 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <200908282315.QAA25181@mist.magic.com> References: <200908282315.QAA25181@mist.magic.com> Message-ID: <4A9868CF.1080701@atarimuseum.com> Looks like Ian Primus has laid claim to it and since he's local, it is a more preferable arrangement. Curt James A. Markevitch wrote: > I've been travelling and just got back. If the system is still available, > I am interested in it. I would have CTS pick this up and ship it to > California. > > If it's not available, please let me know. Otherwise, please let me > know the approximate size of the crate of spare boards, TU58 tapes, > docs, etc. so that I can get an accurate estimate from CTS. I will > assume the 11/750 itself is the system unit, as you indicated in a later > e-mail. > > Thanks, > > James Markevitch > > >> I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, >> includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of dec >> schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its located >> in Carmel, NY 10512 >> >> I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up or >> make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off to a >> new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please. >> >> >> >> Curt >> > > From evan at snarc.net Fri Aug 28 18:39:20 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:39:20 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A9868CF.1080701@atarimuseum.com> References: <200908282315.QAA25181@mist.magic.com> <4A9868CF.1080701@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <4A986AA8.50006@snarc.net> No problem. He's on our list too. :) > Looks like Ian Primus has laid claim to it and since he's local, it is > a more preferable arrangement. > > > Curt > > > > James A. Markevitch wrote: >> I've been travelling and just got back. If the system is still >> available, >> I am interested in it. I would have CTS pick this up and ship it to >> California. >> >> If it's not available, please let me know. Otherwise, please let me >> know the approximate size of the crate of spare boards, TU58 tapes, >> docs, etc. so that I can get an accurate estimate from CTS. I will >> assume the 11/750 itself is the system unit, as you indicated in a later >> e-mail. >> >> Thanks, >> >> James Markevitch >> >>> I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go, >>> includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of >>> dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its >>> located in Carmel, NY 10512 >>> >>> I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up >>> or make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off >>> to a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please. >>> >>> >>> >>> Curt >> > From evan at snarc.net Fri Aug 28 18:39:57 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:39:57 -0400 Subject: Oops.... Message-ID: <4A986ACD.7070005@snarc.net> Sorry folks, the previous message was supposed to be private between Curt and I. From oldcpu at rogerwilco.org Fri Aug 28 19:01:14 2009 From: oldcpu at rogerwilco.org (J Blaser) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:01:14 -0600 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... Message-ID: <4A986FCA.4040708@rogerwilco.org> Curt @ Atari Museum, on Fri Aug 28 17:41:05 CDT 2009, said: > The 11/750 comes with the TU58 tapes, you understand that, right? I'm > not piece-mealing this out. Yes, that was clear, I just was suggesting that IF those tapes are diagnostics, I'd be interested in an image of them, and would be willing to help image them and then return the originals to the new owner...no problem. Sorry for the confusion. Enjoy it Ian! -- Jared From aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 28 19:14:16 2009 From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew Burton) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:14:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: VCF East 6.0 update In-Reply-To: <4A986281.8000807@comcast.net> Message-ID: <423832.40636.qm@web23406.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Wow, that's a cool t-shirt :) Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Sat, 29/8/09, Dan Roganti wrote: From: Dan Roganti Subject: Re: VCF East 6.0 update To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Saturday, 29 August, 2009, 12:04 AM Evan Koblentz wrote: > Anyone who arrives Friday night (Sept. 11) to help us set up gets a free VCF t-shirt.? This year's shirts are black with a very cool (and funny) server room design in bright green. T-Shirt http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/files/VCF/2009/T-Shirt_lab-8cc.gif =Dan [ = http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/???] From wdonzelli at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 19:31:10 2009 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:31:10 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: <200908281828.n7SISGfw018844@floodgap.com> References: <200908281828.n7SISGfw018844@floodgap.com> Message-ID: > She may have not been able to see well. There is a specific cortical test for > this, but you can approximate it by extending the hand's third digit in view > of the test recipient and repeating it in each of their visual fields. I would take this test over the other one finger test a doctor can administer. -- Will From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 28 21:53:19 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:53:19 -0400 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A986FCA.4040708@rogerwilco.org> References: <4A986FCA.4040708@rogerwilco.org> Message-ID: <4A98981F.4030504@atarimuseum.com> I'm going to bring the TU58's down to VCF6East and give them to Ian when I see him and the rest he'll arrange to pick up, so perhaps Ian can work with someone and get them all imaged and made available. Curt J Blaser wrote: > Curt @ Atari Museum, on Fri Aug 28 17:41:05 CDT 2009, said: > > > The 11/750 comes with the TU58 tapes, you understand that, right? I'm > > not piece-mealing this out. > > > Yes, that was clear, I just was suggesting that IF those tapes are > diagnostics, I'd be interested in an image of them, and would be > willing to help image them and then return the originals to the new > owner...no problem. Sorry for the confusion. > > Enjoy it Ian! > > > -- Jared > > > From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sat Aug 29 06:43:59 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:43:59 -0300 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> <4A986281.8000807@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0c9001ca289e$6f5cd8a0$8d1419bb@desktaba> > T-Shirt > http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/files/VCF/2009/T-Shirt_lab-8cc.gif I'd love to buy one of that ;) So beautiful! :D From dgahling at hotmail.com Sat Aug 29 08:48:57 2009 From: dgahling at hotmail.com (Dan Gahlinger) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:48:57 -0400 Subject: need to sell off some stuff, sadly... Message-ID: I have the following I need to sell off, contact me off-list if interested. otherwise it's going to CL/fleabay, etc (located in toronto, if that helps) DEC 3000/300 - 1 vaxstation 3100 m76/SPX - 1 vaxstation 3100 m76/non-spx - several (maybe half-dozen) vaxstation 4000/60 - 1 sun sparc 5 (non-ultra) - at least 1, possibly more sun sparc ultra 10 - 1 SGI O2 - 1 nextstation (bare, no ram, no drives, just unit) - 1 and only for a good trade/etc wyse terminals - 2 (I think) non-classic bits: sun sunfire v100 servers - 2 cisco 1605R routers - 2 (I think) cisco 1900 switch, 2501s, others assorted switches/routers - contact me off list if interested I've been out of work too long, need cash, and no longer have space to store this stuff Dan. _________________________________________________________________ Stay on top of things, check email from other accounts! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671355 From len at shustek.com Sat Aug 29 09:30:09 2009 From: len at shustek.com (Len Shustek) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:30:09 -0700 Subject: Urgent help needed reading 5 1/4" floppies Message-ID: <20090829143012.56C0C1AA2@marlborough.cnchost.com> The Northern California Innocence Project at Santa Clara University (http://law.scu.edu/ncip/) works to get wrongfully convicted innocent people freed from jail. Such convictions are infrequent, but tragic when they happen. In a case they are working on they just received permission to access reports of interviews done in 1986 which were recorded on 5 1/4" floppies. The problem is that the disks are in storage at the Fresno Department of Justice, and they will be given only one day to examine them there: this Tuesday, or possibly Wednesday. We suspect the disks -- about a dozen -- were written by an IBM PC. But all we know for sure, because we have a photocopy of one label, is that they are DS/DD soft sectored. They are looking for someone reliable who can bring a computer (or more than one?) to Fresno on short notice to read the disks and take copies of the files. Can anyone help? This is a 20-year-old wrongful conviction case and the stakes are very high. If you can help, please email me (len at shustek.com) or call me at home (650-851-3176). Thanks. -- Len Shustek From evan at snarc.net Sat Aug 29 11:16:35 2009 From: evan at snarc.net (Evan Koblentz) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:16:35 -0400 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update In-Reply-To: <0c9001ca289e$6f5cd8a0$8d1419bb@desktaba> References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> <4A986281.8000807@comcast.net> <0c9001ca289e$6f5cd8a0$8d1419bb@desktaba> Message-ID: <4A995463.2000900@snarc.net> > >> T-Shirt >> http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/files/VCF/2009/T-Shirt_lab-8cc.gif > > I'd love to buy one of that ;) So beautiful! :D > After the VCF, I'll consider selling any leftover shirts ..... but it's pretty lame to wear a numbered VCF shirt if you weren't actually there. ;) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Aug 29 17:05:42 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:05:42 -0700 Subject: VT420 Serial Lines Message-ID: Is there some special setting I'm missing to make both lines talk to a computer, or are some VT420's only capable of talking to a printer on line 2? I typically have two computers plugged into the same terminal, or two lines on the same computer, but with this VT420 I can only get line 1 talking to the computer. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Aug 29 17:25:57 2009 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt @ Atari Museum) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:25:57 -0400 Subject: VT420 Serial Lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A99AAF5.1000301@atarimuseum.com> Port 2 (6 pin) is a printer port, I could swear there should be an icons on it for a serial printer (serial icon & printer icon), isn't there? Pin 6 is the DTR signal line. Curt Zane H. Healy wrote: > Is there some special setting I'm missing to make both lines talk to a > computer, or are some VT420's only capable of talking to a printer on > line 2? I typically have two computers plugged into the same > terminal, or two lines on the same computer, but with this VT420 I can > only get line 1 talking to the computer. > > Zane > > > From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Sat Aug 29 17:30:36 2009 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VT420 Serial Lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Aug 2009, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Is there some special setting I'm missing to make both lines talk to a > computer, or are some VT420's only capable of talking to a printer on line > 2? I typically have two computers plugged into the same terminal, or two > lines on the same computer, but with this VT420 I can only get line 1 > talking to the computer. According to the manual, the second port can be used for either a printer or another system. http://vt100.net/docs/vt420-uu/chapter3.html Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Aug 29 18:48:42 2009 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:48:42 -0700 Subject: VT420 Serial Lines In-Reply-To: <4A99AAF5.1000301@atarimuseum.com> References: <4A99AAF5.1000301@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: At 6:25 PM -0400 8/29/09, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: >Port 2 (6 pin) is a printer port, I could swear there should be an >icons on it for a serial printer (serial icon & printer icon), isn't >there? > >Pin 6 is the DTR signal line. Port 2 can be used as either a serial line, or a printer port. The trick is remembering how to configure it! At 6:30 PM -0400 8/29/09, Mike Loewen wrote: > According to the manual, the second port can be used for either a >printer or another system. > >http://vt100.net/docs/vt420-uu/chapter3.html Global settings! That's where the setting is. Now I know it's been to long since I've had to setup a terminal! :-) Thanks, Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dj.taylor4 at verizon.net Sat Aug 29 17:09:55 2009 From: dj.taylor4 at verizon.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:09:55 -0400 Subject: VT420 Serial Lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090829180906.024a3ec8@verizon.net> VT420? I know the VT510 has a dual session capability, is that what you are thinking of? At 06:05 PM 8/29/2009, you wrote: >Is there some special setting I'm missing to make both lines talk to >a computer, or are some VT420's only capable of talking to a printer >on line 2? I typically have two computers plugged into the same >terminal, or two lines on the same computer, but with this VT420 I >can only get line 1 talking to the computer. > >Zane > > > >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Aug 30 06:33:37 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:33:37 -0400 Subject: VT420 Serial Lines In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090829180906.024a3ec8@verizon.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090829180906.024a3ec8@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4d247a0d148b58d7ef08608d3d13c96e.squirrel@mail.neurotica.com> The VT420 has dual session support (on two independent serial ports) also. -Dave On Sat, August 29, 2009 6:09 pm, Douglas Taylor wrote: > VT420? I know the VT510 has a dual session capability, is that what > you are thinking of? > > At 06:05 PM 8/29/2009, you wrote: >>Is there some special setting I'm missing to make both lines talk to >>a computer, or are some VT420's only capable of talking to a printer >>on line 2? I typically have two computers plugged into the same >>terminal, or two lines on the same computer, but with this VT420 I >>can only get line 1 talking to the computer. >> >>Zane >> >> >> >>-- >>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >>| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >>| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | >>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >>| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >>| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >>| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > > -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Sun Aug 30 12:28:08 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:28:08 +0200 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A98468B.90604@rogerwilco.org> References: <4A98468B.90604@rogerwilco.org> Message-ID: > Ooo...TU58 tapes, for/from an 11/750! Are these by any chance the > various diagnostic and maintenance tapes, i.e. BD-xxxxx-DE numbers? > Finding images of that whole 11/750 series has so far been unfruitful > for me, and, as it turns out, I'm just about ready (finally, after > nearly two years of infrequent fiddling with faulty power supplies) to > fire up my 11/750 for the first time. I'd think it would be A Good > Thing to have those tapes for checking everything out. If those tapes > are indeed the diagnostics, I'm up for assisting in getting them imaged. > > So far I have been able to gather (with the gracious help of Barry M.) > tapes: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,17,20,33,41,33,44 and 51. I'd like to fill the > gaps and will happily put my functioning TU58 drive to work getting more > images if that is possible. > > Also, I'm looking for some blank/scratch TU58 tapes if anyone has some > gathering dust. Happy to cover shipping, etc. > > Many thanks. > > -- Jared I have the following TU58 cartridges, but never checked if the contents is what is written on the labels. They are "originals", and if no idiot did overwrite them they might be readable. I did not write down the year which is also on the printed label (in the range 1981 - 1989). Here they are, almost verbatim copied the label on them: BE-T284B-DE TU58#42 VAX DR750 DIAGNOSTIC BE-T285H-DE TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG BE-T300I-DE MEU1230A TU58#44 VAX UDA50 SUBSYSTEM BE-T304F-DE TU58#45 VAX DR750/780 DIAG BE-T326B-ME TU58#46 VAX DR750 MICROCODE BE-T536I-ME ME2561 TU58#51 VAX AUTISIZER DIAG BE-T604B-DE TU58#53 CI750 DIAG #1 BE-T605N-DE ME5472 TU58#54 VAX CI750 DIAG #2 BE-T872A-DE TU58#63 VAX 750 FEPCK DIAG BE-S201V-DE ME58870 TU58?8 VAX11 INSTR There might be a typo :-), but the BE-S201V is indeed a Pound sign! One catch: I am in The Netherlands, so you'd pay for shipping to you and return to me. If that's ok, I can ship them, and you can make the copy. Note, I have said that I am not sure about the contents, and I want the tapes back, as I don't have plenty of TU58 cartridges. However, if the original contents indeed were overwritten (bummer!), you can keep two cartridges and send just 8 back to lighten the expenses "for nothing". - Henk. From jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com Sun Aug 30 15:58:08 2009 From: jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:58:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Ongoing PDP11/34a resurrection attempts - stuck SACK? Message-ID: Greetings all; In my continued efforts to try and get my 11/34a functioning I decided to set up my logic analyser and trap ALL of the 56 Unibus signal lines to see if I could spot anything that was being held asserted when it shouldn't. For reference, my 11/34a is set up like: 1 M8266 -------------------------------------------| 2 M8265 -------------------------------------------| 3 M9301 YJ-----| FLIPCHIP 4 M7856---------------------------| 5 National Semiconductor Memory Board--------------| 6 G7232---------| 7 G7232---------| 8 G7232---------| 9 M9302--------| G7232---------| I only have the basic front-console, so not the lovely button-filled operators console. All the NPR jumpers are in place. All voltages check out. The symptoms are: Unit powers on, RUN light comes on and then quickly goes out. When the BOOT/INIT switch is toggled, again, RUN light on, then out. Clearly the unit is HALTing on something, but I can't work out what and nothing seems to appear on the console. When I analyse the bus the unit follows what, from the Unibus design manual, appears to be a standard start-up procedure. - All signals float (obviously) - All signals cleared, DCLO/ACLO/INIT asserted - 773000 is placed on the Address lines (as configured in the bootstrap) - DCLO negates - ACLO negates - INIT negates, and then immediately: - Address lines are cleared - SACK is asserted I find no mention of SACK being asserted in the Unibus manual in its start-up section. Furthermore, as my understanding goes, SACK should only be asserted when a bus master has accepted a grant and is beginning a transaction cycle. There is NO activity on the request/grant lines, so nothing should be allowed to become bus master, so I think this SACK signal should not be happening. Can anyone with more understanding than me (which, you know, is pretty much everyone else who owns a PDP11) confirm I'm not completely off-base here? I have two M7856s and have switched between them, so if it's the 7856 that's holding SACK, then both of mine are doing it. Elsewise... I think the only thing that could be "sticking" is the processor boards, as the memory card shouldn't be able to assert SACK since it can't become a bus master. If this guess is correct... I'm not really sure how to begin debugging what on the processor board is getting glued. Time to break out those schematics? My thanks to all for your thoughts; - JP From alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br Sun Aug 30 18:34:55 2009 From: alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:34:55 -0300 Subject: VCF East 6.0 update References: <4A932228.5070601@snarc.net> <4A986281.8000807@comcast.net><0c9001ca289e$6f5cd8a0$8d1419bb@desktaba> <4A995463.2000900@snarc.net> Message-ID: <02f501ca29ca$a1cd0120$5d4519bb@desktaba> > After the VCF, I'll consider selling any leftover shirts ..... but it's > pretty lame to wear a numbered VCF shirt if you weren't actually > there. ;) I don't matter, I just liked the design of the t-shirt :) From mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com Sun Aug 30 19:01:40 2009 From: mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com (Michael B. Brutman) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:01:40 -0500 Subject: Performance analysis for DOS apps? Message-ID: <4A9B12E4.7050909@brutman.com> I have been performance tuning my TCP/IP stack mostly by looking at the code and making educated guesses as to what needs to be fixed. I have just wasted a day rewriting the IP checksum routine in assembler for a few tenths of a percent improvement and I'm not terribly happy. :-) Is there a sampling profiler available that will periodically record the program counter and give me a histogram of what it finds when it is done? I'm thinking of something like oprofile on Linux. If it does not run in pure DOS but requires an emulation environment, that is ok too. I just don't know what any of the options are. Thanks, Mike From silent700 at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 23:01:52 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:01:52 -0500 Subject: What PSU for Apple //e Platinum? Message-ID: <51ea77730908302101i7804bc6el81bd01b65a3a7733@mail.gmail.com> I recently picked up the "Platinum" version of the Apple //e (the white one with the numeric keypad.) It appears to have a dead power supply. I see a number of PSUs on ebay and parts sites that are listed as "Apple //" compatible. Does anyone know if the Platinum used a different PSU than the other //e models? Also, did the //e use a different one vs. the //+ ? -- jht From josefcub at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 23:12:51 2009 From: josefcub at gmail.com (Josef Chessor) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:12:51 -0500 Subject: What PSU for Apple //e Platinum? In-Reply-To: <51ea77730908302101i7804bc6el81bd01b65a3a7733@mail.gmail.com> References: <51ea77730908302101i7804bc6el81bd01b65a3a7733@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9e2403920908302112sdd951a2l97dc262df3f6d51d@mail.gmail.com> Jason, On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Jason T wrote: > I recently picked up the "Platinum" version of the Apple //e (the > white one with the numeric keypad.) ?It appears to have a dead power > supply. ?I see a number of PSUs on ebay and parts sites that are > listed as "Apple //" compatible. ?Does anyone know if the Platinum > used a different PSU than the other //e models? ?Also, did the //e use > a different one vs. the //+ ? The II, II+ and IIe all use compatible power supplies. It's the IIgs that uses a different power supply (although certain IIgs motherboards can use a II+/IIe supply instead of their own). The one you want has a 3x2 six-pin arrangement, not one that's straight across (reminiscent of an IBM PC's AT power supply). Hope that helps, Josef From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Mon Aug 31 04:34:31 2009 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:34:31 +0100 Subject: PCI RS232 Card With Vista 64-bit Support Message-ID: <000901ca2a1e$3fb76710$bf263530$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> Does anyone know of an inexpensive PCI card with two RS232 ports which has a Vista 64-bit driver? I have so far found this: http://www.roalan.com/Serial%20RS232%20Comms%20PCI%20PCI-X%203.3V%2064%20Bit %20Cards.htm#200LP. It looks OK but I would prefer one that actually has the ports built into the blanking plate, rather than have a cable dangling out the back, and a little bit cheaper would be nice too. Thanks Rob From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Aug 31 05:00:03 2009 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:00:03 +0200 Subject: PCI RS232 Card With Vista 64-bit Support References: <000901ca2a1e$3fb76710$bf263530$@jarratt@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <34EBEE9375F7486EB65B9CE6989830E2@udvikling> > Does anyone know of an inexpensive PCI card with two RS232 ports which has > a > Vista 64-bit driver? I have so far found this: > http://www.roalan.com/Serial%20RS232%20Comms%20PCI%20PCI-X%203.3V%2064%20Bit > %20Cards.htm#200LP. It looks OK but I would prefer one that actually has > the > ports built into the blanking plate, rather than have a cable dangling out > the back, and a little bit cheaper would be nice too. > You can find the boards at http://www.moxa.com/product/PCI_Boards.htm Drivers can be found at http://www.moxa.com/support/software_type_c.aspx?os_id=71&pl_id=22 Nico From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 09:19:55 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:19:55 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal) > heating up... In general thermodynamic terms, yes, but where I live, primary winter heat is usually natural gas or propane (for those at the fringes of town outside of the extensive natural gas network), and heating with electricity here is much more expensive than burning gas. For those that live in parts of the world where electric heat is the best/only choice, you might as well pass those electrons through something that gives you compute cycles vs a big, fat load resistor. On the "green" aspect of this - I recently saw an article that for many households, there are enough incandescents left on around the house that they impact the amount of heat the furnace needs to put out to achieve the desired house temperature (i.e., switching to CFLs shifts more energy load to the primary furnace because you have "lost" a few hundred watts of ambient heat being poured into the house through the bulbs). OTOH, it's a double win in the summer if you have AC (I do not) - less heat from the bulbs means less load on the AC. -ethan From jgkoomey at stanford.edu Sun Aug 30 17:27:28 2009 From: jgkoomey at stanford.edu (Jonathan Koomey) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:27:28 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers Message-ID: <6ED4E089-D206-47DA-8404-FEC25377A2A7@stanford.edu> I've emailed Ed Thelen at the computer history museum to contact the PDP1 restoration team. How can I get in touch with Rich Alderson? Thanks, Jon Jonathan Koomey wrote: > I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1 > > Power use > Watts > 1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell I'm sure the PDP-1 restoration team would be happy to give you the figures for the machine running at the CHM. > 1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060) Rich Alderson should be able to get the figures for the 2065. Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals? __________________________________ Jonathan G. Koomey, Ph.D. Project Scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Consulting Professor, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford University P.O. Box 20313 Oakland, CA 94620 (Please Email me to get a street address before mailing anything that has time urgency to it) 510-654-9634 Home and office 510-547-7860 Msg/fax 510-708-1970 Cell jgkoomey at stanford.edu numbers at numbersintoknowledge.com http://www.numbersintoknowledge.com http://www.analyticspress.com/ http://www.koomey.com From chrise at pobox.com Sun Aug 30 20:47:11 2009 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:47:11 -0500 Subject: Decwriter LA120 flashing 8 Message-ID: <20090831014711.GB31951@n0jcf.net> Bringing a Decwriter III LA120 back to life here and it's the first one I've worked on. Mechanically and cosmetically its in great shape but unfortunately, power on yields flashing "8" on the LED display. According to the technical manual this means "Microprocessor Failure". Hmm. Seems there's enough of a microprocessor there to get the display running and flashing 8 but apparently not enough to be a printer. Any words of wisdom as to likely suspects in this failure mode? The technical manual is great-- with lots of tests documented and scope photos etc so I'll eventually get there but of course I am looking for any hints as to common failures that others have already dealt with. Thanks. Chris -- Chris Elmquist From vax at purdue.edu Mon Aug 31 09:32:27 2009 From: vax at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:32:27 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908311032.27335.vax@purdue.edu> On Monday 31 August 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > > And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the > > (normal) heating up... > > In general thermodynamic terms, yes, but where I live, primary winter > heat is usually natural gas or propane (for those at the fringes of > town outside of the extensive natural gas network), and heating with > electricity here is much more expensive than burning gas. For those > that live in parts of the world where electric heat is the best/only > choice, you might as well pass those electrons through something that > gives you compute cycles vs a big, fat load resistor. I've noticed this as well. I calculated based on my gas and electric bills, that electricity costs me about $0.10/kWh, and natural gas comes out to about $0.02/kWh (given 100% efficient conversion). Given a cross-over point of about 20% efficiency, this has made me wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper to get (at least most of) my power from a natural gas generator outside of my house, than from the power company (and in the process, cause less coal to be burned). Of course, I'm not sure how much my neighbors would appreciate a generator running 24x7.. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcac From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 10:58:37 2009 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:58:37 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > ?The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away nearly fifteen > years ago. ?I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. ?And I was only > the tech contact! You were involved with that site? That's great. I've been telling people about it for years. Other are free to disagree, but I think it was hilarious. -ethan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Aug 31 11:09:46 2009 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:09:46 -0600 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: <200908311032.27335.vax@purdue.edu> References: <200908311032.27335.vax@purdue.edu> Message-ID: <4A9BF5CA.3030208@jetnet.ab.ca> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've noticed this as well. I calculated based on my gas and electric > bills, that electricity costs me about $0.10/kWh, and natural gas comes > out to about $0.02/kWh (given 100% efficient conversion). Given a > cross-over point of about 20% efficiency, this has made me wonder if it > wouldn't be cheaper to get (at least most of) my power from a natural > gas generator outside of my house, than from the power company (and in > the process, cause less coal to be burned). Of course, I'm not sure how > much my neighbors would appreciate a generator running 24x7.. A)POWER COMPANIES are greedy! B)LINES cost $$$ to up-keep C) THEY NEED $$$ to pay for glossy advertising -- use us rather than them. > Pat PS: I wonder what brand of computers sre now used in Nucular Power plants. Straight 8's seem to be a bit dated for new plants. D) Stupid spending on useless projects. From IanK at vulcan.com Mon Aug 31 11:59:33 2009 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:59:33 -0700 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: <6ED4E089-D206-47DA-8404-FEC25377A2A7@stanford.edu> References: <6ED4E089-D206-47DA-8404-FEC25377A2A7@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Rich is a regular reader of this list, and may well have contacted you privately by now. But just in case, I'll forward your message to him, since he's my co-worker. :-) -- Ian _______________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Koomey [jgkoomey at stanford.edu] Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:27 P To: cctech at classiccmp.org Cc: Jonathan Koomey Subject: Re: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers I've emailed Ed Thelen at the computer history museum to contact the PDP1 restoration team. How can I get in touch with Rich Alderson? Thanks, Jon Jonathan Koomey wrote: > I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1 > > Power use > Watts > 1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell I'm sure the PDP-1 restoration team would be happy to give you the figures for the machine running at the CHM. > 1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060) Rich Alderson should be able to get the figures for the 2065. Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals? __________________________________ Jonathan G. Koomey, Ph.D. Project Scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Consulting Professor, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford University P.O. Box 20313 Oakland, CA 94620 (Please Email me to get a street address before mailing anything that has time urgency to it) 510-654-9634 Home and office 510-547-7860 Msg/fax 510-708-1970 Cell jgkoomey at stanford.edu numbers at numbersintoknowledge.com http://www.numbersintoknowledge.com http://www.analyticspress.com/ http://www.koomey.com From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 12:59:52 2009 From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:59:52 +0200 Subject: Ongoing PDP11/34a resurrection attempts - stuck SACK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:58:08 -0500 > From: jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: Ongoing PDP11/34a resurrection attempts - stuck SACK? > > Greetings all; > > In my continued efforts to try and get my 11/34a functioning I decided to > set up my logic analyser and trap ALL of the 56 Unibus signal lines to see > if I could spot anything that was being held asserted when it shouldn't. > > For reference, my 11/34a is set up like: > 1 M8266 -------------------------------------------| > 2 M8265 -------------------------------------------| > 3 M9301 YJ-----| FLIPCHIP > 4 M7856---------------------------| > 5 National Semiconductor Memory Board--------------| > 6 G7232---------| > 7 G7232---------| > 8 G7232---------| > 9 M9302--------| G7232---------| > I only have the basic front-console, so not the lovely button-filled > operators console. All the NPR jumpers are in place. All voltages check > out. > > The symptoms are: > Unit powers on, RUN light comes on and then quickly goes out. When the > BOOT/INIT switch is toggled, again, RUN light on, then out. Clearly the > unit is HALTing on something, but I can't work out what and nothing seems > to appear on the console. > > When I analyse the bus the unit follows what, from the Unibus design > manual, appears to be a standard start-up procedure. > - All signals float (obviously) > - All signals cleared, DCLO/ACLO/INIT asserted > - 773000 is placed on the Address lines (as configured in the bootstrap) > - DCLO negates > - ACLO negates > - INIT negates, and then immediately: > - Address lines are cleared > - SACK is asserted > > I find no mention of SACK being asserted in the Unibus manual in its > start-up section. Furthermore, as my understanding goes, SACK should only > be asserted when a bus master has accepted a grant and is beginning a > transaction cycle. There is NO activity on the request/grant lines, so > nothing should be allowed to become bus master, so I think this SACK > signal should not be happening. > > Can anyone with more understanding than me (which, you know, is pretty > much everyone else who owns a PDP11) confirm I'm not completely off-base > here? > I have two M7856s and have switched between them, so if it's the 7856 > that's holding SACK, then both of mine are doing it. Elsewise... I think > the only thing that could be "sticking" is the processor boards, as the > memory card shouldn't be able to assert SACK since it can't become a bus > master. If this guess is correct... I'm not really sure how to begin > debugging what on the processor board is getting glued. Time to break out > those schematics? > > My thanks to all for your thoughts; > > - JP When I read "M7856" I was immediately triggered. On my website I wrote: "Note that the M7856 module does not use, nor connect the NPG connection. If you install the M7856 module in an SPC slot, make sure that the NPG chain is wired on the backplane. If you do not want to "mess around" on the backplane, you can solder a wire on the component side of the module to connect CA1 to CB1. If you are not sure which contact fingers to connect, use the G7273 NPG / Grant Continuity module as an example." (If the English text could be better, I'd appreciate the comment). I'd check that first. It took me some time to find out that the M7856 does not have contact fingers to pass NPG. - Henk. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Aug 31 13:02:34 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:02:34 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers In-Reply-To: References: <3509B99C-F5EB-4BD4-88A2-1FAD37E5B5DD@gmail.com> <4A96FEC9.7060108@bitsavers.org> <4A971661.1060407@gmail.com> <51998F2D-59A7-4879-ACB7-1E3D09E5B92A@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <46B995BE-B5E1-43CF-A976-318E7D7DF3DE@neurotica.com> On Aug 31, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away >> nearly fifteen >> years ago. I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. And I >> was only >> the tech contact! > > You were involved with that site? That's great. I've been telling > people about it for years. Other are free to disagree, but I think it > was hilarious. Yeah, we had some fun with it. It was done by Mike Doughney, VP and co-founder of Digex. It was in the very early days of the company, and I was the tech contact on all domain registrations there at the time. I also built and maintained the machine that hosted the site, which was (initially) a Sun 3/60 in the aforementioned "blade server" configuration. I also handled the mail servers that had to contend with the flood of hate mail about it. ;) Ahh, people who need to find hobbies. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Aug 31 13:03:15 2009 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:03:15 -0400 Subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FAEBAB-3738-4899-8D58-762D93727701@neurotica.com> On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the >> (normal) >> heating up... > > In general thermodynamic terms, yes, but where I live, primary winter > heat is usually natural gas or propane (for those at the fringes of > town outside of the extensive natural gas network), and heating with > electricity here is much more expensive than burning gas. For those > that live in parts of the world where electric heat is the best/only > choice, you might as well pass those electrons through something that > gives you compute cycles vs a big, fat load resistor. > > On the "green" aspect of this - I recently saw an article that for > many households, there are enough incandescents left on around the > house that they impact the amount of heat the furnace needs to put out > to achieve the desired house temperature (i.e., switching to CFLs > shifts more energy load to the primary furnace because you have "lost" > a few hundred watts of ambient heat being poured into the house > through the bulbs). OTOH, it's a double win in the summer if you have > AC (I do not) - less heat from the bulbs means less load on the AC. If incandescent lighting load is a significant percentage of your in-home heat generation, then I respectfully submit that you don't have enough computer hardware. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL From pontus at update.uu.se Mon Aug 31 14:24:15 2009 From: pontus at update.uu.se (Pontus) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:24:15 +0200 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: References: <4A98468B.90604@rogerwilco.org> Message-ID: <4A9C235F.8000800@update.uu.se> Hi I just got my hands on 11/750 tapes, I've listed the tapes I have that you do not. I'm not very keen on sending these tapes away, but I have three tape drives and am hoping to put one workin together do use and make images. My tapes: 11,12,13,15,22,34,52,58,71 /P >> tapes: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,17,20,33,41,33,44 and 51. I'd like to fill the >> > BE-T284B-DE > TU58#42 VAX DR750 DIAGNOSTIC > > BE-T285H-DE > TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG > > BE-T300I-DE MEU1230A > TU58#44 VAX UDA50 SUBSYSTEM > > BE-T304F-DE > TU58#45 VAX DR750/780 DIAG > > BE-T326B-ME > TU58#46 VAX DR750 MICROCODE > > BE-T536I-ME ME2561 > TU58#51 VAX AUTISIZER DIAG > > BE-T604B-DE > TU58#53 CI750 DIAG #1 > > BE-T605N-DE ME5472 > TU58#54 VAX CI750 DIAG #2 > > BE-T872A-DE > TU58#63 VAX 750 FEPCK DIAG > > BE-S201V-DE ME58870 > TU58?8 VAX11 INSTR > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 31 14:20:44 2009 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:20:44 +0100 (BST) Subject: Ongoing PDP11/34a resurrection attempts - stuck SACK? In-Reply-To: from "JP Hindin" at Aug 30, 9 03:58:08 pm Message-ID: > > Greetings all; > > In my continued efforts to try and get my 11/34a functioning I decided to > set up my logic analyser and trap ALL of the 56 Unibus signal lines to see > if I could spot anything that was being held asserted when it shouldn't. > > For reference, my 11/34a is set up like: > 1 M8266 -------------------------------------------| > 2 M8265 -------------------------------------------| > 3 M9301 YJ-----| FLIPCHIP > 4 M7856---------------------------| > 5 National Semiconductor Memory Board--------------| > 6 G7232---------| > 7 G7232---------| > 8 G7232---------| > 9 M9302--------| G7232---------| > I only have the basic front-console, so not the lovely button-filled > operators console. All the NPR jumpers are in place. All voltages check > out. > > The symptoms are: > Unit powers on, RUN light comes on and then quickly goes out. When the > BOOT/INIT switch is toggled, again, RUN light on, then out. Clearly the > unit is HALTing on something, but I can't work out what and nothing seems > to appear on the console. > > When I analyse the bus the unit follows what, from the Unibus design > manual, appears to be a standard start-up procedure. > - All signals float (obviously) > - All signals cleared, DCLO/ACLO/INIT asserted > - 773000 is placed on the Address lines (as configured in the bootstrap) > - DCLO negates > - ACLO negates > - INIT negates, and then immediately: > - Address lines are cleared > - SACK is asserted > > I find no mention of SACK being asserted in the Unibus manual in its > start-up section. Furthermore, as my understanding goes, SACK should only I am pretty sure SACK should no0t be being asserted at this point. > be asserted when a bus master has accepted a grant and is beginning a > transaction cycle. There is NO activity on the request/grant lines, so > nothing should be allowed to become bus master, so I think this SACK > signal should not be happening. Where are you monitoring the grant lines? Remember they are not bussed, they are daisy-chained from one slot to the next. So an open-circuit in one of them may mean what you're seing on the logic analyser is not what the boards are seeing. The M9320 terminator (as has been stated here many times before) can assert SACK. It asserts SACK if a grant gets all the way to the terminator -- that is if no device intercepts the grant. Unfortunately an open-circut grant line will have the same effect. Try remoing the M9302 (on a Unibus this short you don't need to terminate the far end for testing) and see what happens then. -tony From ragooman at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 14:44:15 2009 From: ragooman at comcast.net (Dan Roganti) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:44:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Looking for specs on power diode SI309701 Message-ID: <2008851312.6167981251747855454.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I'm h oping somebody might have specs for this old diode SI309701 There's a 7814 datecode on there. As far as the PIV and the forward current. I'm trying to cross reference this for another circuit board. thanks =Dan From oldcpu at rogerwilco.org Mon Aug 31 19:02:22 2009 From: oldcpu at rogerwilco.org (J Blaser) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:02:22 -0600 Subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750... In-Reply-To: <4A986FCA.4040708@rogerwilco.org> References: <4A986FCA.4040708@rogerwilco.org> Message-ID: <4A9C648E.8000207@rogerwilco.org> Pontus , on Mon Aug 31 14:24:15 CDT 2009, said: >>> >>> tapes: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,17,20,33,41,33,44 and 51. I'd like to fill the >>> >> >>{consolidated from Henk's message} >> 42,43,44,45,46,51,53,54,63,?8 > > > I just got my hands on 11/750 tapes, I've listed the tapes I have that > you do not. I'm not very keen on sending these tapes away, but I have > three tape drives and am hoping to put one workin together do use and > make images. > > My tapes: 11,12,13,15,22,34,52,58,71 Firstly, thank you, Henk, for the offer to allow me to ship your tapes to the U.S. for imaging, then return them. I'm guessing that the round-trip shipping might be pretty high from The Netherlands to the U.S. and back. Can we hold off on that for a while? Just curious, do you have the means (and inclination) to image them yourself? And, Pontus, great to know what you have also. And I don't blame you for not wanting to ship them off for imaging. If you are able to get them imaged at some point, there are some on this list the might be interested. :) After some further review of the whole list of tape titles (can't remember where I got it), it looks like I actually have a pretty good set of images covering the basic functions diagnostics for the 11/750, so I think I might be able to do a fundamental system checkout with what I have. Still, having a more complete set of tapes (or images) is desirable, at least over time. Like I say, Henk, it might be best to hold off on international shipping for now. If you do ever get them imaged, then let me know. For those that like to know more about the images I already have, please contact me off list. -- Jared From jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com Mon Aug 31 19:04:07 2009 From: jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:04:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Ongoing PDP11/34a resurrection attempts - stuck SACK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote: > Where are you monitoring the grant lines? Remember they are not bussed, > they are daisy-chained from one slot to the next. So an open-circuit in > one of them may mean what you're seing on the logic analyser is not what > the boards are seeing. I have my logic analyser probes on the last slot of the bus. My idea was that if the M9302 was returning SACK, I should be seeing what the M9302 is seeing, if I'm running off the back of its bus slot. > The M9320 terminator (as has been stated here many times before) can > assert SACK. It asserts SACK if a grant gets all the way to the > terminator -- that is if no device intercepts the grant. Unfortunately an > open-circut grant line will have the same effect. > > Try remoing the M9302 (on a Unibus this short you don't need to > terminate the far end for testing) and see what happens then. This did not occur to me due to a combination of assumption and brain damage. Because I knew, from experience, removing the terminator did not "fix" the problem, I had assumed it wouldn't help. I have removed the M9302 and SACK is still being asserted - so the M9302 clearly is not the source of the issue, but I appreciate the reminder, nevertheless, to remove another potential culprit. And thanks to Henk, who has solved a small mystery - my M7856 has a solder bridge between its NPG and NPR pins on the card-edge connector. I wasn't sure why until now! My thanks; - JP From silent700 at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 19:50:32 2009 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:50:32 -0500 Subject: What PSU for Apple //e Platinum? In-Reply-To: <9e2403920908302112sdd951a2l97dc262df3f6d51d@mail.gmail.com> References: <51ea77730908302101i7804bc6el81bd01b65a3a7733@mail.gmail.com> <9e2403920908302112sdd951a2l97dc262df3f6d51d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51ea77730908311750q3062a673m7b40caaa5fb3fcb4@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Josef Chessor wrote: > The II, II+ and IIe all use compatible power supplies. ? It's the IIgs > that uses a different power supply (although certain IIgs motherboards > can use a II+/IIe supply instead of their own). ?The one you want has > a 3x2 six-pin arrangement, not one that's straight across (reminiscent > of an IBM PC's AT power supply). Thanks Josef - with that in mind I'll take a chance on one of the cheaper ones on ebay. The PSU I have has no voltage on any of the pins, so it's a safe bet that it's the fault. -j From trixter at oldskool.org Mon Aug 31 17:40:48 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:40:48 -0500 Subject: Performance analysis for DOS apps? In-Reply-To: <4A9B12E4.7050909@brutman.com> References: <4A9B12E4.7050909@brutman.com> Message-ID: <4A9C5170.4020007@oldskool.org> Michael B. Brutman wrote: > > I have been performance tuning my TCP/IP stack mostly by looking at the > code and making educated guesses as to what needs to be fixed. I have > just wasted a day rewriting the IP checksum routine in assembler for a > few tenths of a percent improvement and I'm not terribly happy. :-) #1 assembler optimization rule for old DOS apps: Keep everything in registers. Memory accesses are really slow for everything 386 and below. If you have to pass data to other blocks of code, try to do so via registers instead of the stack. #2 assembler optimization rule: inline code with macros where it makes sense. A CALL on 8088 is 70 cycles (less penalty the more modern the CPU gets, but still), plus it's that many less JMPs/RETs/etc. Other helpful hints include: - Smaller code is usually faster (see the "memory reads suck" rule) - JMPs suck (they empty prefetch queue and flush caches) so try to make the most common case in a comparison-and-jump the "fall-through" case > Is there a sampling profiler available that will periodically record the > program counter and give me a histogram of what it finds when it is > done? I'm thinking of something like oprofile on Linux. Turbo Profiler, although I've never tried profiling a TSR. You can profile sections of code yourself by reading the 8253 timer both before and after a block executes, then subtracting. Mail me if you'd like some example code. The timer counts from 65535 down to 0 about 18.2 times every second; if the code you're profiling executes in less than 55ms, then you can do your own microsecond-accurate timing. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 21:52:12 2009 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 02:52:12 +0000 Subject: Corestore collection photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For your viewing convenience, snapshots of most (~90%) of the larger items from the Corestore Collection have been assembled in one place: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2029992&id=1528659644&l=4ac3e8f85d Enjoy! Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009