From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 1 00:01:01 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Wichita, KS? In-Reply-To: <72499D7C-9B2B-11D8-8870-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Hi all, Mystery solved, twas from Jeff Kaneko, whom I have contacted to finish up. Thanks, Joe, for the pointer! --f From bert at brothom.nl Sat May 1 03:50:55 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff References: <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> "Joe R." wrote: > > I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 A/D card > and some other odd stuff. > > I will be posting more soon. > > Joe Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 1 06:53:20 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <20040428234825.4C93C10B2B5F@swift.conman.org> References: <20040428234825.4C93C10B2B5F@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <20040501065320.386a8d5a.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:48:25 -0400 (EDT) spc@conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > > [1] Yes, this does include BBC Basic. IMHO BASIC-09 was better than even > > that language. It supported user-defined types for one thing, and the > > ability to call subroutines written in other languages. > > The OS-9 executable format included the type of code (native code, byte > codes, etc) and with that, the system could either load and execute the > binary or load the interpreter, then the binary and execute it (or rather, > the interpreter execute it). A very modular system---think of DLLs that > could be executed. I rather like the OS. > > -spc (Never really ran it, but do have the technical documents) > I'm getting more and more excited, following this 6809 thread, because somebody at work is planning on giving me his old Tandy Color Computer. I haven't seen it yet, but he says it's a very complete system with two diskette drives, lots of cartridges and software on diskettes. He was a Radio Shack employee while he was accumulating it. I'll probably have tons and tons of diskette software once I've taken delivery on it. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat May 1 07:19:46 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: Still Looking for Parts to Complete Omnibot 2000 References: <020c01c42f1f$a29f5860$61406b43@66067007> <20040501021250.GC17249@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <004e01c42f76$9863f2f0$3f406b43@66067007> Sorry I do not have a RB5X yet. Sounds like a cool robot to have in the collection. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Still Looking for Parts to Complete Omnibot 2000 > On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 08:57:16PM -0500, Keys wrote: > > I need two items to complete my omnibot 2000 robot.... > > I don't have any parts for an OmniBot 2000, but do you (or anyone else on > the list) happen to have an RB5X? I just learned that the company is > still in business (and they respond to e-mail, eventually!) > > We had an RB5X at COSI (The Center of Science and Industry) in the mid-1980s. > Three of the folks from the company came out to the museum to show us what > it could do. One of its "features" is that you talk to it and program it > over a serial connection in... Tiny Basic. That's right... it's an INS8073- > based robot! > > I don't have any parts for one, but at home, I _think_ I still have a disc > of programs that we wrote for it twenty years ago. If anyone on the list > has one, I'd be curious to swap bits (obviously, it will take me a while to > reciprocate). > > In other 8073 news, I did hear back from someone who, I think, was affiliated > with Basicon. He promised to dig through his stacks of dusty paper and see > what he has in the way of docs for the MC-1N Rev A. If all he has is paper, > I might ask someone on the list to be the receiver in return for scans. > > -ethan > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-May-2004 02:00 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.5 F (-65.4 C) Windchill -141.6 F (-96.5 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 11.6 kts Grid 124 Barometer 672.3 mb (10917 ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 1 07:21:19 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <10520298.1083323517819.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <10520298.1083323517819.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040501072119.5ec41c07.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:11:57 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Steve Thatcher wrote: > I worked with many systems back in the middle to late 80s when the 386 was in vogue. I don't recall any of them using an older 287 math coprocessor though. Here is a link to a page full of mbs and DTK did indeed make a discrete chip 386 motherboard back then. The co-processor was a 387 though. > > http://www.redhill.net.au/b-92.html > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > I have a 386 motherboard of that vintage, a DTK board. It's a 'full AT' footprint motherboard, and has a socketed 80387 installed, but also has an unpopulated 40 pin DIP socket. My friend had a 386 motherboard in use back in that timeframe that he ran an 80287 in. I just took a number of digital photographs of the board I have and have thrown them up on some webspace I have: http://albenfor.gomen.org/386_at/ The board I have, which is one I got in a box lot at the auction of a defunct Indianapolis computer store, is a DTK Fast ET 20 (according to the board's markings). It is all discrete logic and Intel 82xx series parts, with one row of MMI gate arrays. See the photos for more details. It also has one of those proprietary daughter boards to allow it to be populated with more than the 4 megs of RAM the sockets allow for. I haven't ever powered it up but maybe I should hunt for a full-AT case and give it a try sometime. > -----Original Message----- > From: SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Apr 30, 2004 6:15 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? > > vax, 3900 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat May 1 10:02:08 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> References: <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <200405011002.08973.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 01 May 2004 03:50, Bert Thomas wrote: > "Joe R." wrote: > > I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 > > A/D card and some other odd stuff. > > >=rigdonj> I will be posting more soon. > > > > Joe > > Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? No. You need UNIBUS cards for an 11/750. That's an RQDX3, a QBUS card. You can find out what cards are using module numbers with Megan Gentry's field guide: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 1 11:17:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <200405011002.08973.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040501121747.00799cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:02 AM 5/1/04 -0500, Pat wrote: >On Saturday 01 May 2004 03:50, Bert Thomas wrote: >> "Joe R." wrote: >> > I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 >> > A/D card and some other odd stuff. >> > > >=rigdonj> I will be posting more soon. >> > >> > Joe >> >> Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? > >No. You need UNIBUS cards for an 11/750. That's an RQDX3, a QBUS card. > >You can find out what cards are using module numbers with Megan Gentry's >field guide: > >http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt That won't tell any more than the listings will since that's where the descriptions came from. However I found a copy of DEC's 1980 Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook so I may be able to give more details on the interface cards. Joe From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat May 1 11:31:32 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: The CoCo mailing list (was: 6809) In-Reply-To: <20040501065320.386a8d5a.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1gd3o8k.badofa11wt1goM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Scott Stevens wrote: > I'm getting more and more excited, following this 6809 thread, because > somebody at work is planning on giving me his old Tandy Color Computer. I > haven't seen it yet, but he says it's a very complete system with two > diskette drives, lots of cartridges and software on diskettes. He was a > Radio Shack employee while he was accumulating it. I'll probably have > tons and tons of diskette software once I've taken delivery on it. I just want to plug the current most active CoCo mailing list: http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco It is also gatewayed to: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.tandy.coco and http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.tandy.coco With the SuperIDE [1] and the SuperBoard [2] comming soon and NitrOS-9 being actively developed [3], It's a wonderful time to be into the CoCo! :) [1] [2] [3] -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From zmerch at 30below.com Sat May 1 12:02:52 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: The CoCo mailing list (was: 6809) In-Reply-To: <1gd3o8k.badofa11wt1goM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <20040501065320.386a8d5a.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040501125118.00aebff0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that tim lindner may have mentioned these words: >With the SuperIDE... I noticed this a few days ago... I have stuff to sell on ePay, and if I get enuf spare coin from that, methinks I'll be ordering one of those... ;-) > and the SuperBoard... My only problem is that these have been on the drawing board *forever*[1] and seem to have a case of feeping creaturism. It would be nice if they got the basics for *some* of the abilities of the board down[2], locked it, called it "SuperBoard Lite" and brought it out. Therefore, anyone not needing the whole shebang... I should get resubbed to the coco mailing list, tho. The spam finally drove me away (as the old list was directly linked to bit.listserv.coco & had a poor s/n ratio...) but if the new list is generally spamfree, it would be nice to get back into that again... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] as in -> Duke Nukem Forever... [2] the 2MB of RAM; Pro-Tector+; and Dual Port 16C550 UARTs would be most everything I could want; with the protector you *darned near* have a parallel port using the bus (My main printer will print from serial anyway... ;-) , the RTC can be had in either the SCSI or IDE interfaces, PS/2 keyboard would be OK, I suppose; and I guess if it was Ethernet capable would be OK for transferring files, but having "yet another Internet box"... Besides, with the serial ports, there are "serial -> internet" converter thingies out there... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 1 12:15:27 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: FA: More DEC stuff" (May 1, 12:17) References: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040501121747.00799cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10405011815.ZM13144@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 1, 12:17, Joe R. wrote: > At 10:02 AM 5/1/04 -0500, Pat wrote: > >On Saturday 01 May 2004 03:50, Bert Thomas wrote: > >> "Joe R." wrote: > >> Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? > > > >No. You need UNIBUS cards for an 11/750. That's an RQDX3, a QBUS card. > > > >You can find out what cards are using module numbers with Megan Gentry's > >field guide: > > > >http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt > > That won't tell any more than the listings will since that's where > the descriptions came from. The third column contains "Q" for Qbus or "U" for Unibus. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat May 1 12:32:46 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: The CoCo mailing list (was: 6809) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040501125118.00aebff0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1gd3rii.1ypjn34vry1dgM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > and the SuperBoard... > > My only problem is that these have been on the drawing board *forever*[1] > and seem to have a case of feeping creaturism. It would be nice if they > got the basics for *some* of the abilities of the board down[2], locked > it, called it "SuperBoard Lite" and brought it out. Therefore, anyone not > needing the whole shebang... This is _exactly_ why the SuperIDE project was initiated. Mr. Marlette wanted to do so much with the Super Board he decided to create a project with a sub set of the technologies involed. > I should get resubbed to the coco mailing list, tho. The spam finally drove > me away (as the old list was directly linked to bit.listserv.coco & had a > poor s/n ratio...) but if the new list is generally spamfree, it would be > nice to get back into that again... Absolutly spam free. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 1 12:32:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040501133216.008dcce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found two "new" Multibus cards in the last couple of weeks. The first was made by Monolithic Memories and appears to be a RAM/PROM card. The intersting thing about it is that it has three Dallas battery backed NV RAMs and two RCA 62256 SRAMS. Another oddity is that it has cutouts along the top edge, probably for some type of I/O connectors. The other card is a video card made by Matrox. Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? There are four other blocks on it that appear to be LSI ICs but it turns out that they're really DIP switches with covers on them. There is one in the top LH corner with not cover. Does anyone have docs for either of these? Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 1 14:07:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> Message-ID: Bert (and everyone else ;-) > Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? Nope, the 750 is Unibus, and requires Unibus cards. The M7555 card is an RQDX3, which indeed does MFM, but it is a Qbus card. For your system, we need to find a SCSI (haha!) or ESDI controller that does MSCP, lime a Dilog or Emulex card, so we can hook up a (physically small) ESDI drive to it. I laughed about the SCSI card, because those... well, save up lots of money if you want those :) --f From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat May 1 14:29:43 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 01 May 2004 14:07, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Bert (and everyone else ;-) > > > Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? > > Nope, the 750 is Unibus, and requires Unibus cards. The M7555 > card is an RQDX3, which indeed does MFM, but it is a Qbus card. > > For your system, we need to find a SCSI (haha!) or ESDI > controller that does MSCP, lime a Dilog or Emulex card, so we > can hook up a (physically small) ESDI drive to it. I laughed > about the SCSI card, because those... well, save up lots of > money if you want those :) If your 11/750 has a massbuss controller in it, you could always go that route. Of course, then your disk drive will be about the size of your VAX. I just got an RM03 to hook up to mine. I added pictures of mine to my specs/pics page at: http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/rm02-03.html Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat May 1 14:38:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> THIS IS NOT MY STUFF! How well does DEC stuff handle weather? FREE (no shipping - local pickup only!) five or six 6 foot racks of PDP-11/40 stuff It is well weathered - outside in mild climate for 15+ years, so condition is poor, but some parts should be usable. It was working before the long term poor storage also "washing machine sized disk drive" "maybe an RM03" also, a stove and a doghouse, and maybe some miscellaneous, particularly if/when he runs out of storage space contact Monte Hanrahan (510) 754-8373 sorry, no email until he finishes moving, although I could try to get messages to him in a few days. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From bert at brothom.nl Sat May 1 18:21:31 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:15 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <409430FB.74B91F2A@brothom.nl> > If your 11/750 has a massbuss controller in it, you could always go that > route. Of course, then your disk drive will be about the size of your > VAX. > > I just got an RM03 to hook up to mine. I added pictures of mine to my > specs/pics page at: > > http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/rm02-03.html Cool, nice ratio! ;-) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat May 1 17:35:03 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds Message-ID: > Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked > MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? Probably a character ROM. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From allain at panix.com Sat May 1 17:52:26 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> TCF (NJ annual Computer flea) http://www.tcf-nj.org report This years 'Trenton' Computer festival featured: One guy with a $5 PPC Mac table. Two Apple II's (1: good condition, 2: good extras), a IIgs. An Atari 800 w/ FDD. Tons of Suns again. This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. Laptop drives at 50? /gig One table each of Tek and HP test equipment, mid-level value. DEC: All gone! Some Compaq badge era things. Some reminiscent people talking about it. ** Still worth the trip, for good prices and volumes, but a little dull. I left in time to get a IIc complete at the recycle center for free. One guy was trying to sell NT 4.0 for $119... I didn't ask. Atypical. ** I take this as a clue that selling same there would be interesting. John A. From cb at mythtech.net Sat May 1 19:35:38 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 Message-ID: >TCF (NJ annual Computer flea) http://www.tcf-nj.org report Damn it!!! I was just thinking about this the other day and meant to put it on my calendar. I wanted to go, and today would have been better for me (now I have to see if I can get there tomorrow or not). DAMN! -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat May 1 19:49:54 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000a01c42fdf$6302d900$967ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: TCF 2004 > TCF (NJ annual Computer flea) http://www.tcf-nj.org report > > This years 'Trenton' Computer festival featured: > One guy with a $5 PPC Mac table. > Two Apple II's (1: good condition, 2: good extras), a IIgs. > An Atari 800 w/ FDD. > Tons of Suns again. > This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. > Laptop drives at 50? /gig > One table each of Tek and HP test equipment, > mid-level value. > DEC: All gone! > Some Compaq badge era things. > Some reminiscent people talking about it. ** > > Still worth the trip, for good prices and volumes, but a > little dull. I left in time to get a IIc complete at the > recycle center for free. > One guy was trying to sell NT 4.0 for $119... I didn't ask. > Atypical. > > ** I take this as a clue that selling same there > would be interesting. > > John A. > Sounds nice, too bad its not closer to here. I remember a decade ago driving down to a huge hamfest/computer show in Dayton Ohio, some nice deals there. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat May 1 20:52:50 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: Some trying to $200 for mouse Message-ID: <015301c42fe8$2e8717a0$3f406b43@66067007> Here's a Lisa 1 mouse with a asking price of $200, it closes today. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19198&item=2740783569 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 1 22:28:54 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 In-Reply-To: <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200405020330.XAA21105@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Tons of Suns again. > This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. > Laptop drives at 50? /gig Oh, man, you make me wish I drove (and found out about it earlier). I'd love to have been there for that. On reflection, though, perhaps it's just as well; otherwise I'd have driven my spare space even farther negative than it already is. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 1 22:51:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds In-Reply-To: from "Davison, Lee" at May 1, 4 11:35:03 pm Message-ID: > > > > Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked > > MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? > > Probably a character ROM. How many pins does it have? Character generator ROMs tend to be 24 pin (or maybe 28 pin). Is the 'MCH-01' marking a stuck-on label or marked directly on the package? I am suprised there's no RAM on this board, actually. That could be 16 pin packages, and thus mistaken for TTL. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 1 21:54:14 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 In-Reply-To: <000a01c42fdf$6302d900$967ca418@game> References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000a01c42fdf$6302d900$967ca418@game> Message-ID: <20040502025414.GC14028@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 08:49:54PM -0400, Teo Zenios wrote: > Sounds nice, too bad its not closer to here. I remember a decade ago driving > down to a huge hamfest/computer show in Dayton Ohio, some nice deals there. The Dayton Hamvention at the Hara Arena... http://www.hamvention.org/, IIRC... I've gone most years since 1982. Gonna miss this year, naturally. It's in a couple of weeks, if you want to go again. I _used_ to get DEC stuff there, but it's been sparse for a long time. The selection is going to be lots of modern PC stuff inside, with less and less classic stuff in the flea market. Plenty of Sun hardware, some Commodore stuff here and there. Being a Hamvention, there's lots of radio gear, but also Textronix, HP and other RF and test equipment. I get lots of loose components there, still. I picked up several tubes of 14-pin machined pin sockets for $1/tube last year (and wished I'd bought more). My usual haul lately is some replacement SPARC machine for <$50 (last year it was a SPARC-5/110 w/HME-Wide-SCSI card and half-a-boat of 32MB DIMMs for $35), an armload of discrete components, and maybe one classic machine. I missed out on the PDP-8/a that sold on Friday morning, but I did get a few DEC items from the same guy later in the day. Dayton is where I got my first PDP-8 in 1982. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-May-2004 02:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -83.2 F (-64.0 C) Windchill -141.6 F (-96.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.4 kts Grid 049 Barometer 669 mb (11042. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From nico at farumdata.dk Sun May 2 00:16:39 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > > > Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I > > just would like a box of unused blank disks. > Be very careful when ordering disks. You must specificy whether they are single or double density, and single or double sided.. I have about 100 of them, mostly still wrapped, and mainly double side double density, but I have no idea of the going price. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15-04-2004 From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun May 2 01:18:20 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200405020330.XAA21105@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <001201c4300d$44221950$967ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: Re: TCF 2004 > > Tons of Suns again. > > This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. > > Laptop drives at 50? /gig > > Oh, man, you make me wish I drove (and found out about it earlier). > I'd love to have been there for that. > > On reflection, though, perhaps it's just as well; otherwise I'd have > driven my spare space even farther negative than it already is. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > If a few laptop HD's will take up all your spare space you better get a bigger house :) The problem with these events is that you always go there looking for one thing and end up coming home with allot of other treasure. I am running out of space to setup and store my small collection already (meaning without turning the whole house into a warehouse). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun May 2 08:44:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040502094417.0083b340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:51 AM 5/2/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> >> > Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked >> > MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? >> >> Probably a character ROM. > >How many pins does it have? Character generator ROMs tend to be 24 pin (or >maybe 28 pin). Is the 'MCH-01' marking a stuck-on label or marked >directly on the package? > >I am suprised there's no RAM on this board, actually. That could be 16 >pin packages, and thus mistaken for TTL. The four columms of ICs on the RH side are 2114 SRAMs (GTEus no less.) There are a total or 24 of them. They're 1k x 4 each so that makes a total of 12k bytes of RAM. The large LSIC has 24 pins and th enumbers are marked directly on the package. It has four 74ls367 93 state buffers), four 74ls243 (Quad 3state bus transeiver) and one 74ls00 (Quad 2 input NAND) that are in sockets. Any idea why they'd be socketed but the rest aren't? Joe > >-tony > > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun May 2 09:07:19 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040502094417.0083b340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040502094417.0083b340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405020707.19927.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Sunday 02 May 2004 06:44, Joe R. wrote: --snip-- > It has four 74ls367 93 state buffers), four 74ls243 (Quad 3state bus > transeiver) and one 74ls00 (Quad 2 input NAND) that are in sockets. Any > idea why they'd be socketed but the rest aren't? Typically manf. socketed chips they found failed more frequently - or chips that where the most available version could be used - i.e., substitute a 74s00 or 7400 for a 74ls00, etc. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun May 2 16:12:24 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: FW: Old Computer Magazines Message-ID: <000401c4308a$2a925630$6e7ba8c0@p933> Hello all, Verne has some very early PC magazines available in Greenville, SC for pickup or for shipping at your expense. Please contact him directly at vern99t@charter.net to save these from a landfill. The usual disclaimers apply. Best regards, Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Old Computer Magazines From: "Verne" Date: Fri, April 30, 2004 2:01 pm To: webmasterNOSPAM@vintage-computer.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- I'm about to trash an old collection of PC Mag, PC World, PC Tech Journal About 4 Boxes in very good condition ranging from 1984 to 1988 Any Interest ?? The boxes weigh a ton.. Unless they have some value The shipping cost will be prohibitive Greenville, SC Verne From cfandt at netsync.net Sun May 2 21:07:00 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <4091F4C5.8000708@mcdermith.net> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Could you, Bill McD., or any other folks who've joined the list in the past several years, shed more light on the HP 9825 CPU and others around that time? Al Kossow's statement wondering whether info is extant on HP's microprocessors is right on the money for me. Bill's message, copied below, is a good bit of information that I had not known to now. Thanks! (A BPC manual was available??!!! Scan that sucker if found!!) Additionally, I understood the CPU in the HP250-series business computers from late 70's/early 80's was actually the 9825 processor but with different microprogramming. A source seems to confirm something like this, except mention is made of using a CPU similar to the 9845. Check this interesting URL which is that source I mention: http://www.hp-eloquence.com/history/history.html My system consists exactly of the "Delila" pictured lastly on the page. CPU box is that to the left of the very similar looking HP7908 16 mb drive on the right, both on wheels. Both boxes are equipped with DC600 tape drives and typical gooey tape rollers which need to be repaired :-/ Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? Secondly, can the HP250/9825(45) uP connection be verified by any other source(s)? Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical info available on the HP250 machines? I have a 250-30 upon which I've done some study back in the early 90's ? la Tony Duell (e.g., self-generated hand drawn schematics, some address decoding, bits and pieces of other tech notes scrounged from here and there). Up until a few years ago there was a severe lack of available info on the machine. I haven't focused on searching since then, mainly because of other stuff getting in the way (such as life, etc.) Also, anyone know whether the boot ROMS were devices electrically compatible with anything known commercially? I want to know so that I can possibly dump them for preservation and also learn a bit by observing human readable system messages and from whence they are called plus guessing at some machine code and hand disassembling a few areas. That's sometimes interesting and fun when discoveries come about. Right Tony? In short, is there anything substantial available out there on the HP250 machines other than the URL shown above? Google caught the URL I gave but picking through many hundreds of others yielded very little of additional substance. My machine still ran last I checked about two years ago and came with an HP7908 hard disk and HP Business BASIC operating system (with the very last version update released which was implemented by our HP CE in 1987 or '88), two HP2631 printers and two or three 2622 terminals. BTW, I have an HP7912 65 mb disk drive that I got with the system which always showed a "Servo Error" error code on the two-character LED display at the back of the machine. Anybody have a set of boards real cheep for this machine which I could swap-out and see if it can be brought up? If swapping boards doesn't work then for sure the disk unit is shot and I'll have to scrap the darned thing and pass the boards back to the original seller if need be or others. No room around here for such unusable 130+ pound boatanchors :-( Regards, Chris F. NNNN Upon the date 12:40 AM 4/30/04 -0600, Bill McDermith said something like: >Al Kossow wrote: >>I was wondering how much information is around on the >>microprocessors HP built in the late 70's/early 80's >>I found some information on the MC2 in the Osborne processor >>books from '79, and it appears an MC5 is used as the maint >>processor in the HP3000 Series 44. >>Anyone know what processor is used in the HP64000? One note >>on Usenet claimed it was an Inmos part? > >Actually, it used the BPC processor, which is the CPU part of >the mutli-chip set used in the 9825 calculator. The BPC was a >cross between the hp2100 instruction set and the 21MX instruction >set. It had byte-addressable instructions, and a return stack >with a JSB variant that would push the return address on the >stack instead of the first word of the target subroutine >(necessary if the program was in rom...) > >Initially there were some development tools on the HP3000, >but by the time I had started to work on it, there was >a Pascal compiler and assembler on the 64000 itself that >would target it, and we only used the 3000 for the parser >generator used to handle the function keys. > >Pretty sure it was manufactured somewhere in California, >the guys making calculators would be a good bet... > >Don't think I have a BPC manual around, but I'll take a look... > >Bill McDermith > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From aek at spies.com Sun May 2 22:28:10 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP)? Message-ID: <200405030328.i433SAFj030049@spies.com> Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical info available on the HP250 machines? -- check out www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/250 I should have more information on the 300 soon. AFAIK the 300 and 3000/S33 were pretty much the same hardware except for microcode. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 00:16:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> from "Christian Fandt" at May 2, 4 10:07:00 pm Message-ID: > Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. One is a metal-heatsinked hybrid. It looks a lot like the one in the 9825, but I don't even know if the pinout is the same, let alone the microcoding. The other is a set of 3 boards called the 'Sandwich' according to one of the lables on the chassis. There are 4 40 pin chips (which I will lay odds are 2901s), some microcode PROMs, and lots of smaller chips. -tony From MTPro at aol.com Mon May 3 08:45:15 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 08:55:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503095539.0085f6a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:16 AM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? > >I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully >be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it >yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One was called the LPU (Language Processing Unit) and the other called the PPU (Peripheral Processing Unit). The LPU handles the BASIC interpreter and the PPU handles all of the system I/O. Go read my HP 9845 webpage at . Interestingly HP found that the dual CPUs didn't improve perfromace very much so they dropped one of them on the 9835 and found the performace was almost as good. You can read about that on the 9835 page. For more information about the HP 9825 go look at my HP 9825 page at . See for links to all the desktops models. Joe > >One is a metal-heatsinked hybrid. It looks a lot like the one in the >9825, but I don't even know if the pinout is the same, let alone the >microcoding. The other is a set of 3 boards called the 'Sandwich' >according to one of the lables on the chassis. There are 4 40 pin chips >(which I will lay odds are 2901s), some microcode PROMs, and lots of >smaller chips. > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 09:08:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You forgot to attach her message and/or address. AFIK there were no options for the original Portable. I've had several and read the manuals and I don't remember hearing of any options. But it's been a long time and I could be wrong. I think somewhere I still have an original brochure and some manuals but don't ask me to find them. I can't find half the stuff that I thought I knew where it was. IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the factory or a third party job. Joe At 09:45 AM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David > From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Mon May 3 12:52:54 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <409686F6.5010105@yahoo.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > Could you, Bill McD., or any other folks who've joined the list in the > past several years, shed more light on the HP 9825 CPU and others > around that time? Al Kossow's statement wondering whether info is > extant on HP's microprocessors is right on the money for me. Bill's > message, copied below, is a good bit of information that I had not > known to now. Thanks! (A BPC manual was available??!!! Scan that > sucker if found!!) > > ...snip...snip...snip > Regards, Chris F. > Two quick hits looking on google for "HP BPC Processor" -- clears up at least a couple of the questions relation to where this processor was originally used... http://www.cpu-museum.com/5061_e.htm -- this link specifically mentions this as the processor for the 9825/9835/9845 processors -- see also Joe R's reply to your message... http://www.hpmuseum.org/tech9825.htm A different HP 250 hit: http://www.ylem.co.uk/hp250.asp The eloquence page mentions specifically the HP250 as a follow-on to the HP 9845, so I would suspect the same processor set -- but so many things were re-invented over and over again at HP it's always hard to say for sure... Regarding the 64000: As I probe my memory, it seems to me that I remember that the BPC chips we used in the 64000 were specially constructed for us and left the BCD arithmetic chip off the hybrid, so there were only the BPC chip and the IOP present in the hybrid package... Just a vague memory... Bill From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 12:45:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503095539.0085f6a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 3, 4 09:55:39 am Message-ID: > > At 06:16 AM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: > >> Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? > > > >I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully > >be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it > >yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. > > > There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One I think I may well have that. On the left of my machine is a board with one of the HP hybrids on it. I assume it's a proccessor -- it looks very like the thing in my 9825 and 9831. On the right there's a set of 3 boards, only one of which goes into the main backplane. There's a little backplane on top that interconnects these 3 boards. One of them contains 4 2901 chips (4 bit bit-slice ALUs). Anohter contains what look to be microcode PROMs. I assume the former is the PPU, the latter the LPU. I would certainly describe my LPU as a bit-slice board -- do you know if the standard LPU was an HP hybrid chip, a board of bit-slice chips or what? I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces (!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. > For more information about the HP 9825 go look at my HP 9825 page at > . See I know the 9825 hardware fairly well... -tony From Innfogra at aol.com Mon May 3 13:48:22 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <80.ae59c23.2dc7edf6@aol.com> I have pulled several Intel Aboveboards out of Compaq Portable 1s & IIs. They work well for memory expansion on the ISA 8 and 16 bit busses. Paxton Astoria From medavidson at mac.com Mon May 3 13:54:37 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <53486B73-9D33-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an 11/785 on EBay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 and the opening bid is only $500. If I could figure out how to get it out to CA, I'd bid on it! On Apr 29, 2004, at 1:35 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> Think roughly the equivalent of 2-3 19" racks, and that's just for >> the single enclosure holding the CPU. You'll need at least a 19" >> rack for the disk drives. > > A single VAX 6000 cab is (from memory) a bit wider than a 19" rack, > but not by more than maybe a hand each side. There was an official > cab kit that let you run a set of RA7x drives (maybe in an SA7x > enclosure) in the bottom of the VAX 6000 cab. There may > even have been an official way to run a brace of RA9x drives > in there too. So it would be possible to run a VAX 6000 in > a single cab. > > These days, assuming you are not going to be asking for > official support :-), you could try cramming an HSJ and > a string of SCSI drives in the bottom and stick a DSSI > card in the 6000 ... > > Antonio > > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org >> > From tponsford at theriver.com Mon May 3 14:05:23 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (tom) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Big Vme Boxes. Message-ID: <20040503120523.38aa80b3.tponsford@theriver.com> these will probably go relal cheap as in > $5.00. The one on the left is a sun 390 upgradable to 690 SMP. The tall boy ob the lest is a sun 3/280. The later one may go for more just because the 7' rack is in nice condition. http:w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/pics/0504024.JPG From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 3 14:10:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK References: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> <53486B73-9D33-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: <002f01c43142$5d9ba320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I would definitely like SOME of the gear listed in that auction, but there's no way I can swing a 40' truck to move all of it, or more importantly I don't have ROOM for that much gear! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Davidson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" ; Cc: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted inKansas City) > Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an 11/785 on EBay... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 > and the opening bid is only $500. If I could figure out how to get it > out to CA, I'd bid on it! > > On Apr 29, 2004, at 1:35 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > >> Think roughly the equivalent of 2-3 19" racks, and that's just for > >> the single enclosure holding the CPU. You'll need at least a 19" > >> rack for the disk drives. > > > > A single VAX 6000 cab is (from memory) a bit wider than a 19" rack, > > but not by more than maybe a hand each side. There was an official > > cab kit that let you run a set of RA7x drives (maybe in an SA7x > > enclosure) in the bottom of the VAX 6000 cab. There may > > even have been an official way to run a brace of RA9x drives > > in there too. So it would be possible to run a VAX 6000 in > > a single cab. > > > > These days, assuming you are not going to be asking for > > official support :-), you could try cramming an HSJ and > > a string of SCSI drives in the bottom and stick a DSSI > > card in the 6000 ... > > > > Antonio > > > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > >> > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From arcarlini at iee.org Mon May 3 14:18:56 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <53486B73-9D33-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: <003801c43143$7bcb08d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an 11/785 on EBay... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA > %3AIT&rd=1 > and the opening bid is only $500. If I could figure out > how to get it > out to CA, I'd bid on it! Not just a 785 but a VAX 8530, a VAX 8700 too. Two VAX 8250s to boot (pun possibly intended :-)). Plus much other stuff including spare parts and distribution tapes. Surely CA is no problem: I assume you'd have to hire a driver to go with the 40' truck anyway - how expensive can it be from Oklahom to California :-) I like the "Preference to go to a good home - otherwise theres over $2,000 scrap gold in these machines" and I'm impressed by the "Can be shown fully working". Clearly a golden opportunity for someone. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Mon May 3 14:20:07 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK In-Reply-To: <002f01c43142$5d9ba320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <003901c43143$a5d6bca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I would definitely like SOME of the gear listed in that > auction, but there's no way I can swing a 40' truck to move > all of it, or more importantly I don't have ROOM for that much gear! Of course, you meant "roomS" unless you live in the kind of house we'd all *like* to live in! -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon May 3 14:45:10 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <003801c43143$7bcb08d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040503194510.89167.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Seems he will be happy with $500 for all of them. Why should they make computers that are so heavy? I am sure the boards are light. I remembered that I once assembled a TU81, and there were two weights -- yes, weights -- in it that each was about 50LB. vax, 3900 --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an > 11/785 on EBay... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > > ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA > > %3AIT&rd=1 > > and the opening bid is only $500. If I could > figure out > > how to get it > > out to CA, I'd bid on it! > > Not just a 785 but a VAX 8530, a VAX 8700 too. Two > VAX 8250s > to boot (pun possibly intended :-)). Plus much other > stuff > including spare parts and distribution tapes. > > Surely CA is no problem: I assume you'd have to hire > a driver > to go with the 40' truck anyway - how expensive can > it be > from Oklahom to California :-) > > I like the "Preference to go to a good home - > otherwise theres over $2,000 scrap gold in these > machines" > and I'm impressed by the "Can be shown fully > working". > > Clearly a golden opportunity for someone. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 15:05:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004 MTPro@AOL.com wrote: > If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David That depends on what the question is. (NOT included) To get up to 640K: use a regular ISA card with memory. To get LIM/EMS: use an ISA LIM/EMS card. To meet RAM requirements for Windoze 3.10 or above: remove the entire contents of the case, and start with a different MB, and consider a different case. 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 15:09:08 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040503130518.E13001@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. (The II was also 286) > hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the > factory or a third party job. factory but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could take ordinary 506/MFM drives. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 3 15:10:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) References: <20040503194510.89167.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004601c4314a$b3a51d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Why > should they make computers that are so heavy? Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 3-phase! J --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 15:18:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted In-Reply-To: <20040503194510.89167.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> from "SHAUN RIPLEY" at May 3, 4 12:45:10 pm Message-ID: > > Seems he will be happy with $500 for all of them. Why > should they make computers that are so heavy? I am > sure the boards are light. I remembered that I once When I moved my I2S Model 70 Image Processor/Display systems, I found that pulling the 30-odd boards from each card cage made the latter much easier to lift, and that, indeed, I couldn't lift all the boards at once (a total of 5 cardcages full -- a Model 70/E with 2 RAM cages, a Model 70/F4 and a Model 75) Those are somewhat interesting machines that I really must get round to restoring some day. The oldest one, the Model 70/E uses 4K DRAMs for the video memory, and there are somewhere over 3000 of them in the machine (!), and about the same number of TTL chips. The later machines use 16K and 64K DRAMs, which is how they get the entire machine into one cardcage. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 15:19:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <409686F6.5010105@yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503161923.0091e8b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:52 AM 5/3/04 -0600, you wrote: >Christian Fandt wrote: > >> Could you, Bill McD., or any other folks who've joined the list in the >> past several years, shed more light on the HP 9825 CPU and others >> around that time? Al Kossow's statement wondering whether info is >> extant on HP's microprocessors is right on the money for me. Bill's >> message, copied below, is a good bit of information that I had not >> known to now. Thanks! (A BPC manual was available??!!! Scan that >> sucker if found!!) >> >> ...snip...snip...snip >> Regards, Chris F. >> >Two quick hits looking on google for "HP BPC Processor" -- clears up at >least a couple of the >questions relation to where this processor was originally used... > >http://www.cpu-museum.com/5061_e.htm > -- this link specifically mentions this as the processor for > the 9825/9835/9845 processors -- see also Joe R's > reply to your message... > >http://www.hpmuseum.org/tech9825.htm > >A different HP 250 hit: > >http://www.ylem.co.uk/hp250.asp > >The eloquence page mentions specifically the HP250 as a follow-on to >the HP 9845, I don't know anything about the 250 but the HP 9000/520 was the designated replacement for the 9845. Apparently the 520 had problems was very late being released and was not a success. Now they're pretty rare. I have one but never did anything with it and don't know much about it. IIRC Frank McConnall also has one and knows a lot more about it. I'm not sure what kind of processor was in the 520 but I don't think it was a standard CPU like the 680x0 that was used in the 9000/200 and 300s. so I would suspect the same processor set -- but so many >things were re-invented over and over again at HP it's always hard to >say for >sure... > >Regarding the 64000: > >As I probe my memory, it seems to me that I remember that the BPC >chips we used in the 64000 were specially constructed for us and left >the BCD arithmetic chip off the hybrid, so there were only the BPC >chip and the IOP present in the hybrid package... That rings a bell with me too. I think I remember reading that in one of the HP Journals that had an article about the 64000. Joe > >Just a vague memory... > >Bill > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 15:23:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040503095539.0085f6a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503162348.008378b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:45 PM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> At 06:16 AM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? >> > >> >I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully >> >be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it >> >yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. >> >> >> There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One > >I think I may well have that. That would be cool! I have four or five 9845s but I don't think any of mine have that option. > >On the left of my machine is a board with one of the HP hybrids on it. I >assume it's a proccessor -- it looks very like the thing in my 9825 and >9831. > >On the right there's a set of 3 boards, only one of which goes into the >main backplane. There's a little backplane on top that interconnects >these 3 boards. One of them contains 4 2901 chips (4 bit bit-slice ALUs). >Anohter contains what look to be microcode PROMs. > >I assume the former is the PPU, the latter the LPU. I would certainly >describe my LPU as a bit-slice board -- do you know if the standard LPU >was an HP hybrid chip, a board of bit-slice chips or what? I believe it was a hybrid. > >I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came >with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces >(!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather >hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. hard to find? Sheesh I find them all over. nearly every 9825 that I find comes with one. I just passed one up in a scrap yard a couple of weeks ago. Also passed up a couple of the RTC modules. The RTC modules with the IO cable are cool. You can interface them to external devices and trigger the devices or use the device to trigger events in the 9845. Joe > >> For more information about the HP 9825 go look at my HP 9825 page at >> . See > >I know the 9825 hardware fairly well... > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 15:28:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 Government Edition? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503162822.00863e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up another load of early PC software last week. Everything was in nearly new condition :-) :-) One of the things that I got was a package of Lotus 123 version 2.01. It's marked as a Government Edition and has an eagle of the disk labels. Anybody know what this is all about? The manuals seem to be standard and don't say anything about it having different features. However I'm thinking that it might be a non-copyprotected version. Joe From medavidson at mac.com Mon May 3 15:28:56 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK In-Reply-To: <003901c43143$a5d6bca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003901c43143$a5d6bca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <801EDAB7-9D40-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Yeah, I got a quote from the guy selling it... $3500 to pack it and truck it to where I am (San Jose, CA). Unfortunately, that's a bit more than I can afford right now. :) On May 3, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >> I would definitely like SOME of the gear listed in that >> auction, but there's no way I can swing a 40' truck to move >> all of it, or more importantly I don't have ROOM for that much gear! > > Of course, you meant "roomS" unless you live in > the kind of house we'd all *like* to live in! > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From aek at spies.com Mon May 3 16:05:25 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes Message-ID: <200405032105.i43L5P4L003358@spies.com> I have been recovering HP64000 files from floppies written by a 64000 that no longer boots. === A scan of the 64000 floppy ref man that describes the LIF implemenation can now be found at www.bitsavers.org/hp/64000/64941-90906_flpRef_Jan84.pdf From aw288 at osfn.org Mon May 3 16:09:16 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: (cheap) Apple grayscale tube Message-ID: I have a small Apple grayscale tube (about 12"), probably from the Apple IIc or IIgs days. Basically, baseband video. in fact, I was using it as a video monitor until recently. Pretty good shape. Anyone want this for $5.00? Shipping is from 10512. The junkyard calls... Reply off list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 16:29:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a picture of it at . Sorry but I haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember seeing a model number on the 2nd one. Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 3 16:41:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a Joe> picture of it at Joe> . Sorry but I Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and some were another OS...) paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 3 16:47:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <008e01c43158$2fb83160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Some discussion of this already occured on the list, I think Joe was involved? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-March/019817.html J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something > >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front > Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are > Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around > Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a > Joe> picture of it at > Joe> . Sorry but I > Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The > Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember > Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. > > CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme > was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business > computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and > some were another OS...) > > paul > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From aek at spies.com Mon May 3 16:56:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: err in url Message-ID: <200405032156.i43LuZZO017056@spies.com> forgot the 'pdf' www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/64000/64941-90906_flpRef_Jan84.pdf From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon May 3 16:51:54 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) Message-ID: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >> Why >> should they make computers that are so heavy? > >Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 >3-phase! > >J Most 3 phase is 208, not 220. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 17:11:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503130518.E13001@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think you're mixed up. I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and 640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. FWIW I think the Portable 286 was probably the same size as the P-II. It wasn't much smaller than the original Portable but I distinctly remember Compaq saying that it was 40% smaller. Probably about 10% smaller in each direction so ~40% smaller volume. Joe At 01:09 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > >> The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a >Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was >ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. >(The II was also 286) > >> hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the >> factory or a third party job. >factory >but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive >numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could >take ordinary 506/MFM drives. > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 17:43:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: "rare"????? models of Compaq (was: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040503152138.Q19501@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I think you're mixed up. ABSOLUTELY! no argument there! > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable > II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) How much would you pay for a "Portable II" that came stock with a 286 motherboard? I think that there were both a "Portable II" AND a "Portable II/286", but the 286 "II" that I have says "Portable II". > then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and > 640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't > remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had > a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. > FWIW I think the Portable 286 was probably the same size as the P-II. It > wasn't much smaller than the original Portable but I distinctly remember > Compaq saying that it was 40% smaller. Probably about 10% smaller in each > direction so ~40% smaller volume. How much would you pay for a "Portable 286" that IS EXACTLY the size and shape as the original portable, with MOST case/body parts interchangeable with the original portable? The original portables that I had (sold off at VCF a few years ago), and the "Portable 286" that I still have are EXACTLY the same size and shape, and are difficult to tell apart (minor differences, such as horizontal v vertical drives). The "Portable II" that I still have is significantly, noticeably, and obviously smaller. Is it unreasonable for me to assume that the 286 with a case like the original was an earlier model than the 286 with a smaller more modern case? I do not have any of the Portable IIIs (lunchbox) One of my Compaq's is "upgraded" to the Compaq EGA card Another has the ATI EGA Wonder, with "special Compaq adapter" The Portable 286 has sheet metal "damage" (I mounted a 3.5" drive above the expansion cards) If still around by then, I'll sell them at VCF. (along with the usual pile of boxes of crap) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > At 01:09 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: > >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > > > >> The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a > >Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was > >ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. > >(The II was also 286) > > > >> hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the > >> factory or a third party job. > >factory > >but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive > >numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could > >take ordinary 506/MFM drives. > > > > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 3 18:00:06 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> I've got a set of DEC diagnostic floppies (RX50) and I don't have the decoding scheme at hand to figure out the part number and therefore their usage. I don't know which machine these run on -- Micro PDP-11 or MicroVAX. I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with a heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same time I got said uVAX II. Given the part numbers listed below could anyone tell me about them (other than the obvious ;-) )? BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 Thanks for your help. (BTW, should these be added to an archive or two (bitsavers for instance)?) -Chris F. NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 17:58:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503185856.008b56f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:41 PM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front > Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are > Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around > Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a > Joe> picture of it at > Joe> . Sorry but I > Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The > Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember > Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. > >CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme >was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business >computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and >some were another OS...) > > paul This was part of some kind of test staion. The computer part of it consisted of four 6+ foot tall 19" racks that were bolted together. I wanted to get more the cables and such out of it but they dumped it on it's back and there was no way to stand it back up again! It had a couple of RL-01 or 02 drives in it along with a PT reader/punch (that was smashed :-( Also a reel to reel tape drive and some other DEC parts. The rest were Data Couplers and interfaces. The test equipment itself was in other racks and I never saw it. Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 17:59:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <008e01c43158$2fb83160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503185958.0092f230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yes, you're right. But I promised to post some pictures and I'm just getting around to it. Joe At 04:47 PM 5/3/04 -0500, Jay wrote: >Some discussion of this already occured on the list, I think Joe was >involved? >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-March/019817.html > >J > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Koning" >To: >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:41 PM >Subject: Re: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something > > >> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: >> >> Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front >> Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are >> Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around >> Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a >> Joe> picture of it at >> Joe> . Sorry but I >> Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The >> Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember >> Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. >> >> CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme >> was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business >> computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and >> some were another OS...) >> >> paul >> >> > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 18:09:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: "rare"????? models of Compaq (was: Fwd: compaq's portablecomputer In-Reply-To: <20040503152138.Q19501@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503190900.008a4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:43 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> I think you're mixed up. >ABSOLUTELY! no argument there! > > >> I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >> II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) >How much would you pay for a "Portable II" that came stock with a 286 >motherboard? The same as I paid for all the other Compaqs that I have. $0.00 >I think that there were both a "Portable II" AND a "Portable II/286", but >the 286 "II" that I have says "Portable II". I don't remember a Portable II/286. It sounds like Compaq had to P-II cases left over and decided to stick 286s in them. Similar to IBM with their XT/286. > >> then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >> 640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >> remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >> a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. >> FWIW I think the Portable 286 was probably the same size as the P-II. It >> wasn't much smaller than the original Portable but I distinctly remember >> Compaq saying that it was 40% smaller. Probably about 10% smaller in each >> direction so ~40% smaller volume. > >How much would you pay for a "Portable 286" that IS EXACTLY the size and >shape as the original portable, with MOST case/body parts interchangeable >with the original portable? > >The original portables that I had (sold off at VCF a few years ago), >and the "Portable 286" that I still have are EXACTLY the same size and >shape, and are difficult to tell apart (minor differences, such as >horizontal v vertical drives). FWIW one of the more useful features of the Portable 286s is that the keyboard will work with the 286 and up clone boards. Why does that matter you ask? Because then you can take a Portable case and stuff a late model clone MB and video card in and and make a useful computer out of it and still keep the detachable keyboard. >The "Portable II" that I still have is significantly, noticeably, and >obviously smaller. > >Is it unreasonable for me to assume that the 286 with a case like the >original was an earlier model than the 286 with a smaller more modern >case? No. but I don't remember a full sized 286 portable. I suspect Compaq had some full size chassis left over and decided to use them up. > > >I do not have any of the Portable IIIs (lunchbox) > >One of my Compaq's is "upgraded" to the Compaq EGA card >Another has the ATI EGA Wonder, with "special Compaq adapter" > >The Portable 286 has sheet metal "damage" (I mounted a 3.5" drive above >the expansion cards) > >If still around by then, I'll sell them at VCF. (along with the usual >pile of boxes of crap) > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > >> At 01:09 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >> IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. >> > >> >> The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a >> >Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was >> >ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. >> >(The II was also 286) >> > >> >> hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the >> >> factory or a third party job. >> >factory >> >but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive >> >numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could >> >take ordinary 506/MFM drives. >> > >> >> > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 3 18:23:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front panel. Then I > found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are painted in two tone blue > Tekronix colors. I finally got around to photograghing one of the front > panels today. I'm posting a picture of it at > . Sorry but I haven't > cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The first one was > marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember seeing a model number on the > 2nd one. Well, some of the 11/34's I am currently working on for some of you guys are Tek-labelled. Since these are labelled CP1134, I will just assume that Tek took 11/60's, and rebadged them into CP1160 in your case? --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 3 18:34:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> from "Christian Fandt" at May 03, 2004 07:00:06 PM Message-ID: <200405032334.i43NYBj5029862@onyx.spiritone.com> > I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with a > heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same time I > got said uVAX II. I'm going to guess they go with a PDP-11/73, as an MV II would have the diagnostics on TK50. Plus the info sounds sort of PDP-11ish. In answer to the other question, yes, you should make disk images of the floppies. Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 18:38:57 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: "rare"????? models of Compaq (was: Fwd: compaq's portablecomputer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503190900.008a4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503190900.008a4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040503162750.U19501@newshell.lmi.net> > >How much would you pay for a "Portable II" that came stock with a 286 > >motherboard? On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > The same as I paid for all the other Compaqs that I have. $0.00 Congratulations, you are currently the high bidder! I'll continue accepting bids through VCF > >I think that there were both a "Portable II" AND a "Portable II/286", but > >the 286 "II" that I have says "Portable II". > I don't remember a Portable II/286. It sounds like Compaq had to P-II > cases left over and decided to stick 286s in them. Similar to IBM with > their XT/286. makes sense > FWIW one of the more useful features of the Portable 286s is that the > keyboard will work with the 286 and up clone boards. Why does that matter > you ask? Because then you can take a Portable case and stuff a late model > clone MB and video card in and and make a useful computer out of it and > still keep the detachable keyboard. The "Portable 286" that I have has an "AT compatible" keyboard that fits the original style case. Complete with inadequate latches. The "Portable II" that I have is somewhat smaller, but also AT compatible. The biggest limitation to "upgrading" them is that the internal monochrome monitor can handle EGA, but NOT VGA. > No. but I don't remember a full sized 286 portable. I suspect Compaq had > some full size chassis left over and decided to use them up. I don't think that it was their most popular model. But I still think that it came BEFORE, or overlapped when they changed the case. Here's your big chance to complete a collection! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From stuart at zen.co.uk Sun May 2 15:46:18 2004 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stuart Birchall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface Message-ID: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> Hi everyone, Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for the 64? Cheers Stu From michael at mfp.co.nz Sun May 2 17:33:30 2004 From: michael at mfp.co.nz (Michael Fincham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: WANG.... thingymabob? Message-ID: <3812.202.49.92.103.1083537210.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> Hi everyone I'm looking for some kind soul to identify this machine for me http://www.applefritter.com/node/view/1711 I see someone has replied on Applefritter and is talking about it being some kind of giant transciever, but any extra details would be appreciated. -Michael Fincham www.mfp.co.nz From emailkevin.potter at virgin.net Sun May 2 18:35:21 2004 From: emailkevin.potter at virgin.net (Kevin Potter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Omnibot 2000 Message-ID: <002401c4309e$22db9b40$f5d96751@fsnet.co.uk> Hi Do you know what my Omnibot 2000 is worth? It has tray and remote control. thanks Kevin From zdrawko at operamail.com Mon May 3 09:30:33 2004 From: zdrawko at operamail.com (Zdrawko Iwanow Stefanow ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: To Rich Beaudry - 8 inch floppies Message-ID: <20040503143033.DBC7323ABC@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Dear Rich, do you still have the Shugart 851 one? Or at least the user manual for it? Thanks, Zdravko Stefanov -- _____________________________________________________________ Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com. >From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones. Powered by Outblaze From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Mon May 3 13:09:28 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (BPC Processor) In-Reply-To: <4092C4F0.7040006@mcdermith.net> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <001301c42ebf$36b77340$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <002201c42ebf$af66d600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4092C4F0.7040006@mcdermith.net> Message-ID: <40968AD8.5090001@mcdermith.net> One other peculiarity I do remember about the BPC instruction set was that as it had byte addressing, the byte select was the _most_ significant bit of a 16-bit address, so that the indirect addresses were only one level -- that is, you could do indirect addressing through one target word -- this is in contrast to the 2100 instructions where the most significant bit was used as an indirection bit indicating a chain of indirect addresses... Bill Bill McDermith wrote: > Jay West wrote: > >> A combination of 2100 and 21MX instruction sets? Umm... the 21MX is >> just a >> superset of 2100? > > > Correct, but if my memory isn't completely gone, it had some > of the 21mx instructions, some of the additional registers, like > the amusing but less useful index registers, but not all of the > 21MX instructions, and some of the ones that were included weren't > implemented in the same way (or with the same bit pattern? Can't > remember...) -- It seems to me that you couldn't just use a > 21MX compiler to target a BPC, for example. > > It's just hard to remember, programmed it every day for a year > in 1980, then moved on to the displays division in Colorado > Springs, and never messed with it again... > > Bill McDermith From karen_reid at DRSOptronics.com Mon May 3 13:16:12 2004 From: karen_reid at DRSOptronics.com (Reid, Karen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: <53CB7766CBAB9148BCB56ABC56F408CF5FEF37@california.drso.biz> Glen, I found this link http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002328.html while searching for this manual. Do you still have a copy of it? And would you be willing to share? I have an HP 7946 tape drive I need to access and the manual is nowhere to be found. Karen Reid Sr. Test Engineer DRS Optronics, Inc. 100 N. Babcock St. Melbourne, FL 32935 321.309.1865 From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon May 3 19:00:01 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on my site if anyone wants to see one. If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a CMOS Checksum error. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 20:20:24 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040503181720.X25653@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to > get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure > the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" > checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a > CMOS Checksum error. http://www.compaq.com/support/files/obsolete_diagnostics.html I THINK that it includes what you need, along with some other junk. From paulpenn at knology.net Mon May 3 20:15:07 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <015b01c43175$d8cc0340$6401a8c0@knology.net> Compaq released a replacement address decoder chip that would allow replacing two rows of 64K chips with 256K chips to go to 640K. They're unobtanium now, of course, so you have to waste a slot on a memory card. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: compaq's portable computer > You forgot to attach her message and/or address. > > AFIK there were no options for the original Portable. I've had several > and read the manuals and I don't remember hearing of any options. But it's > been a long time and I could be wrong. I think somewhere I still have an > original brochure and some manuals but don't ask me to find them. I can't > find half the stuff that I thought I knew where it was. > > IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a > hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the > factory or a third party job. > > Joe > > > At 09:45 AM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: > >If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options > for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as > well as to the list. Thanks, David > > > From chd_1 at nktelco.net Mon May 3 21:27:57 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4096FFAD.6050509@nktelco.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: "Jay West" >> >> >> >>>Why >>>should they make computers that are so heavy? >>> >>> >>Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 >>3-phase! >> >>J >> >> > >Most 3 phase is 208, not 220. >Dwight > > > > or 240/60 or 380/50 or 400/50 or 480/60 or 575/60... Lots of ways to deliver the volts... -chuck From chd_1 at nktelco.net Mon May 3 22:06:49 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: "Jay West" >> >> >> >>>Why >>>should they make computers that are so heavy? >>> >>> >>Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 >>3-phase! >> >>J >> >> > >Most 3 phase is 208, not 220. >Dwight > > > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star configuration. That is, measured phase to phase you get 240 volts, but phase to neutral you get 208. Typically you don't want any neutral current, so it is balanced around the phases in a delta configuration. I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but I would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the neutral at all, just 3 phases and a ground. -chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 22:09:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503162348.008378b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 3, 4 04:23:48 pm Message-ID: > >> There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One > > > >I think I may well have that. > > That would be cool! I have four or five 9845s but I don't think any of > mine have that option. What do you have in the far right slot? Is it a single PCB with an HP metal-heatsinked hybrid on it, a set of 3 boards, or what? Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial to dismantle. To take off the top cover you have to remove the 2 little metal latch brackets for the montior first. And you have to remove the keyboard/tape drive assembly to get the cards out, they just don't clear the back edge of it when the keyboard is screwed down. Oh well... > >I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came > >with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces > >(!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather > >hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. > > hard to find? Sheesh I find them all over. nearly every 9825 that I find They're not at all common in the UK... > comes with one. I just passed one up in a scrap yard a couple of weeks ago. > Also passed up a couple of the RTC modules. The RTC modules with the IO > cable are cool. You can interface them to external devices and trigger the All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, it's just a cable you have to add. > devices or use the device to trigger events in the 9845. YEs.. That clock is one strange design. When the machine is powered up, the clock is done in software on the HP microcontroller inside. But there's also a digital watch chip (!) which is battery backed and used to keep the time when the machine is powered down. The interface to the watch chip is what you might expect. a couple of 'buttons' for things like selecting the time/date, setting the clock, etc, digit strobes (outputs from the watch chip) and the 7-segment outputs (one of which isn't used, since the microcontroller can identify the digit without it). I think there's also an annunciator output, which means there are only 3 digit strobes (the most significant digit is either blank or 1, both for time and US-style date, so you just need a single line for it, rather than a complete digit.) You can actually attach a 7 segment display to traces on the board and get it to display the time when the clock module is starting up. Incidentally, the clock testpoint mentioned in the manual is one of the digit strobes. That's why it's a division of 3 from a power-of-2 frequency. And that's what 'gave it away' when I was sorting out just what was going on on that board. The clocks are fairly common, ones that have not been damaged by battery electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. Have you seen a metal-cased I/O module for these machines? One of my HPIB interfaces is in a die-cast case, not a plastic one. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 22:14:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at May 3, 4 11:06:49 pm Message-ID: > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V phase-phase. In the UK we get 415V 3-phase, which is 240V (our normal mains voltage) between each phase and neutral, and 415V between any pair of phases. > I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but I > would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the neutral at > all, just 3 phases and a ground. Not at all. A very few PSUs are genuinely 3-phase, and some large disk drives have 3 phase motors. But in the case of DEC machines at least, the individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase and neutral (star connected). Of ocurse the load is approximately balanced between the 3 phases (or it is if the machine is configured properly). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 22:17:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (BPC Processor) In-Reply-To: <40968AD8.5090001@mcdermith.net> from "Bill McDermith" at May 3, 4 12:09:28 pm Message-ID: > > One other peculiarity I do remember about the BPC instruction set was that > as it had byte addressing, the byte select was the _most_ significant > bit of a > 16-bit address, so that the indirect addresses were only one level -- that > is, you could do indirect addressing through one target word -- this is in > contrast to the 2100 instructions where the most significant bit was used as > an indirection bit indicating a chain of indirect addresses... The 98x0 proxesor also does that -- you can indirect as many times as you like (and, indeed, tie the processor in a tight-ish microcode loop if you get an indirect address that tries to indirect through itself). AFAIK the 98x0 porcessor has a different instruction set to the 2100 series, but it's similar in concept. -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon May 3 22:57:21 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2004 MTPro@AOL.com wrote: > > If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David > > That depends on what the question is. (NOT included) > To get up to 640K: use a regular ISA card with memory. > To get LIM/EMS: use an ISA LIM/EMS card. > To meet RAM requirements for Windoze 3.10 or above: remove the entire > contents of the case, and start with a different MB, and consider a > different case. > > 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But > recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: With a 'hercules clone' monocrhome card, with a Paradise MGA card (cga emulation on a 9-pin mono monitor) and with a 64K IBM EGA card in Monochrome mode (best overall video resolution for Windows of above three configurations). Back then I don't remember _ever_ having a video monitor that actually had a case. I used cast-off monochrome monitors from dumb terminals that I wired 9 pin connectors onto, after figuring out which lines provided the seperate H/V sync. There was a very-slow-green-phosphor tube that I remember being my favorite for a long time. My chosen hardware to run Windows on back then wasn't the norm, nor was I being a good Wintel "wave-plastic-frantically-at-the-store" customer in doing so, but it worked for a long time. For fairly loose defintions of 'worked' of course. You're likely correct about driver support for the Compaq Portable display. I sold a Portable III recently with a fresh install of Windows 1.03 on it, which suited that hardware fairly well. From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon May 3 23:01:19 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 03 May 2004 22:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star > > Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V > phase-phase. Tony is right here. At least in Indiana, Illinois, and the Code Book, 208 three-phase is a "Y" setup with 120V from each phase to neutral, and 208V from phase to phase. 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on the third one. It's important to realize when wiring a system like this that the third phase is NOT 120V to neutral like the other two, I've heard of some people (idiots) ignoring that, and having issues when they tried to turn on their 120V lamps they just wired. : ) > > I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but > > I would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the > > neutral at all, just 3 phases and a ground. > > Not at all. A very few PSUs are genuinely 3-phase, and some large > disk drives have 3 phase motors. But in the case of DEC machines at > least, the individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase > and neutral (star connected). Of ocurse the load is approximately > balanced between the 3 phases (or it is if the machine is configured > properly). Agreed. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon May 3 23:09:58 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:01 -0500 (CDT) Dave Dunfield wrote: > > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable > >II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and > >640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't > >remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had > >a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. > > FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on > my site if anyone wants to see one. > > If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to > get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure > the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" > checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a > CMOS Checksum error. > I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. From donm at cts.com Mon May 3 23:14:04 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Monday 03 May 2004 22:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star > > > > Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V > > phase-phase. > > Tony is right here. At least in Indiana, Illinois, and the Code Book, > 208 three-phase is a "Y" setup with 120V from each phase to neutral, > and 208V from phase to phase. 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with > the neutral half-tapped between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, Wait a minute! By definition, a delta configuration can have no neutral. Else it is no longer delta. - don > 120V phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral > on the third one. It's important to realize when wiring a system like > this that the third phase is NOT 120V to neutral like the other two, > I've heard of some people (idiots) ignoring that, and having issues > when they tried to turn on their 120V lamps they just wired. : ) > > > > I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but > > > I would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the > > > neutral at all, just 3 phases and a ground. > > > > Not at all. A very few PSUs are genuinely 3-phase, and some large > > disk drives have 3 phase motors. But in the case of DEC machines at > > least, the individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase > > and neutral (star connected). Of ocurse the load is approximately > > balanced between the 3 phases (or it is if the machine is configured > > properly). > > Agreed. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon May 3 23:57:17 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface In-Reply-To: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> References: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Hi everyone, > Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for > the 64? > Cheers > Stu > Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some 1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. Gary Hildebrand From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 00:05:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040503220216.N30850@newshell.lmi.net> > > 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But > > recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: You were probably running 3.0! 3.1 requires extended memory (286) 3.0 was the last one that could be run on 8088. 3.0 would work fine with CGA. 3.1 would work with CGA, but not right. From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 00:22:56 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405040022.56594.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 03 May 2004 23:14, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Monday 03 May 2004 22:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star > > > > > > Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V > > > phase-phase. > > > > Tony is right here. At least in Indiana, Illinois, and the Code > > Book, 208 three-phase is a "Y" setup with 120V from each phase to > > neutral, and 208V from phase to phase. 240V three-phase is a delta > > setup, with the neutral half-tapped between two phases, giving 240V > > phase-to-phase, > > Wait a minute! By definition, a delta configuration can have no > neutral. Else it is no longer delta. > > - don When a neutral is put on a delta, it's wired like: A / \ / \ B--N--C At least, that's what I've learned from reading NEC code books. By contrast, a wye aka Y/star is wired like: A B \ / \ / N | | C I guess you could also call that a "flux capacitor" arrangement. :) You can also put the ground one of the three delta phases, and end up with this: A / \ / \ B/N----C I've only heard of that arrangement before, I haven't actually seen it. In general, though, it seems intuitive to me that you'd want to connect some part of the secondary to ground, and avoid a floating secondary, as you might run into "problems" if your 12kV(ish) primary becomes coupled to the secondary, and there isn't a ground path to trip a circuit breaker. There's few things more dangerous than having your 208V line at 12kV+-208V (AC RMS) to ground when you're not expecting it. -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 00:19:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V phase-to-neutral > on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on the third one. That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. Certainly if you have three phases 120? apart such that there is 240VRMS between any two phases, you can center-tap between any of two them, but the tap won't be 0V to ground and thus I would maintain that calling it "neutral" is misleading, enough so that I'd call it _dangerously_ misleading. (By my calculations, it will be something like 70V to ground, but I'm not sure I have the math straight.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From GOOI at oce.nl Tue May 4 00:34:59 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102B88@gd-mail03.oce.nl> I am almost certain it is basically an 11/35, or 11/40. The /35 was the OEM version of the /40, hence they both have the same 5-card CPU set with optional cards for FIS, EIS and MMU. The MMU also required a small extra board called stack limit register. For more info on the /35 see www.pdp-11.nl - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe R. [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: maandag 3 mei 2004 23:29 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something > > > A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front > panel. Then I > found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are painted in > two tone blue > Tekronix colors. I finally got around to photograghing one of > the front > panels today. I'm posting a picture of it at > . Sorry but I haven't > cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The first one was > marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember seeing a model > number on the > 2nd one. > > Joe > From whdawson at localisps.net Tue May 4 01:27:33 2004 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Compaq Case Rough Designation Style Specs ------------ -------- ----- Portable IBM 5155 Style, 8088, 256K, CRT, AC Portable/Plus " , 8088, 640K with Rev C ROM, CRT EGA, AC Portable II " , 80286, CRT EGA, AC Portable III Breadbox , 80286 8/12 MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG optional). Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC Portable 286 Same as above Portable 386 Breadbox , 80386 20MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG optional). Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC SLT286 Lunchbox , 80286 8/12MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC w/adapter SLT386 Lunchbox , 80386 ?MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC w/adapter > On Mon, 3 May 2004 Scott Stevens wrote: > > I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February > was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox > configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it > and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM > and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with > different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a > 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a > Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time > before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had > didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. > > > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 02:07:51 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface In-Reply-To: <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20040504070751.GA9406@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 11:57:17PM -0500, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for > > the 64? > > Cheers > > Stu > > > Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some > 1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. Better to use a MAX232A and 4 caps - really simple. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 07:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.0 F (-66.2 C) Windchill -138.9 F (-95 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 030 Barometer 671.7 mb (10941. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 4 02:30:14 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt "DEC Diagnostic Disks" (May 3, 19:00) References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <10405040830.ZM1548@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 3, 19:00, Christian Fandt wrote: > I've got a set of DEC diagnostic floppies (RX50) and I don't have the > decoding scheme at hand to figure out the part number and therefore their > usage. I don't know which machine these run on -- Micro PDP-11 or MicroVAX. > > I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with a > heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same time I > got said uVAX II. > > Given the part numbers listed below could anyone tell me about them (other > than the obvious ;-) )? > > BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS > BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 > BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 > BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 > BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 These are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a microPDP-11/23. Here's a listing from my set: DIR DU1: (CZXD1B1 Field Service Tests 1) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? 2 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000100 ?.? 3 HMDLD1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000130 ?.? 4 HMDXC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000151 ?.? 5 HMDYC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000172 ?.? 6 HDDDC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000213 ?.? 7 HDDKB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 2 000216 ?.? 8 HDDLC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 4 000220 ?.? 9 HDMMB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000224 ?.? 10 HDMTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000227 ?.? 11 HDMSB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000232 ?.? 12 HMDQA1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000235 ?.? 13 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000257 ?.? 14 XTSAA0.OBJ 14-JAN-82 10 000263 15 HDDXB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000275 ?.? 16 HDDYB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000300 ?.? 17 HDKBB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000303 ?.? 18 HDLPA0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000304 ?.? 19 HDPDB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000305 ?.? 20 XRQAB0.OBJ 1-OCT-83 18 000310 21 HDPTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000332 ?.? 22 HELP .TXT 3-MAR-83 14 000333 23 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000351 24 DXCL .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000402 25 XMOND0.LIB 3-MAR-83 180 000433 26 XCPAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000717 27 XCPBJ0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000724 28 XKWEB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000731 29 XDZBC0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 7 000736 30 XIBAD0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 000745 31 XDRFD0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 000751 32 XDMDC0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 14 000761 33 XDPVA0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000777 34 XLPAF0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001004 35 XRLAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 001010 36 XTUAB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 10 001020 37 XAACB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001032 38 XADCB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 001036 39 XBMDE0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001046 40 XCIAA0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 001052 41 XFPAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001062 42 XDLAJ0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 6 001066 43 XDLBB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 10 001074 44 XDMEB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 12 001106 45 XDRAD0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 3 001122 46 XDRJA0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001125 47 XDUAI0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 7 001131 48 XKWAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001140 49 SETUP .BIN 3-MAR-83 26 001144 50 PATCH .BIN 3-MAR-83 22 001176 51 XTECO .BIN 3-MAR-83 16 001224 52 ZRQAB0.BIC 14-JUL-83 71 001244 53 ZRQBA0.BIN 30-JUN-83 20 000256 FREE BLOCKS: 34 .DIR DU1: (CZXD2B0 Field Service Tests 2) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? 2 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000100 ?.? 3 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000104 ?.? 4 JFPAA1.BIC 14-SEP-82 50 000134 5 JFPBA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 39 000216 6 JDLAA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 19 000265 7 JKDIA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 23 000310 8 JKDBD0.BIC 3-MAR-83 52 000337 9 JKDAD1.BIC 3-MAR-83 28 000423 10 JKDCB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 52 000457 11 JKDDB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 32 000543 12 VM8AF0.BIN 31-MAR-83 15 000603 13 VMSAA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 24 000622 14 VMEMA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000652 15 JKL5A2.BIC 29-JUL-83 94 000672 16 JKDHA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 54 001030 17 VKWAC0.BIC 3-MAR-83 17 001116 18 VDLAB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 001137 19 VDVAC0.BIC 3-MAR-83 14 001157 20 VKAFE0.BIN 3-MAR-83 5 001175 21 VKAHA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 001202 22 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 001222 FREE BLOCKS: 117 .DIR DU1: (CZXD3B0 Field Service Tests 3) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000073 2 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000124 ?.? 3 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000131 ?.? 4 VDMAA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 31 000135 5 VDMBA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 30 000174 6 VDMCA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 30 000232 7 VDMDA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 27 000270 8 VDMEA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 27 000323 9 VDPVB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 31 000356 10 VDZCB1.BIN 31-MAR-83 12 000415 11 VDZAC0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000431 12 VDZBB0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000451 13 VAAAA1.BIC 7-DEC-82 13 000471 14 VADAC0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000506 15 VAXAA0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000526 16 VTSAA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 36 000546 17 VTSBA0.BIC 15-JUL-83 67 000612 18 VTSCA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 73 000715 19 VDZDA0.BIN 31-MAR-83 4 001026 20 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 001032 ?.? 21 VTSDA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 68 001062 22 VTSEA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 23 001166 FREE BLOCKS: 147 .DIR DU1: (CZXD4B0 Field Service Tests 4) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? 2 UPD2 .BIN 5-NOV-82 26 000100 3 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000132 ?.? 4 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000136 ?.? 5 ZLPLD0.BIN 4-JUN-82 31 000166 6 ZDUQC0.BIN 3-MAR-83 16 000225 7 ZDURB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000245 8 ZDUSB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000265 9 ZDUTB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000305 10 ZDUVB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000325 11 ZRLNA2.BIN 3-MAR-83 28 000345 12 ZRLKB2.BIC 3-MAR-83 26 000401 13 ZRLLC0.BIN 3-MAR-83 14 000433 14 ZRLMB0.BIN 3-MAR-83 23 000451 15 ZRLGC0.BIN 3-MAR-83 19 000500 16 ZRLHB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 27 000523 17 ZRLID0.BIN 3-MAR-83 30 000556 18 ZRLJB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 23 000614 19 ZTUUD0.BIN 7-DEC-82 22 000643 20 VKWAC0.BIC 3-MAR-83 17 000671 21 VDRAB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 14 000712 22 VDRCB0.BIN 3-MAR-83 16 000730 23 VDRDB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 15 000750 24 VIBAA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 12 000767 25 VIBBA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 12 001003 27 ZDUUB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 001043 28 VRLBA0.BIC 31-MAR-83 32 001063 29 VDRBA0.BIN 7-DEC-82 7 001123 FREE BLOCKS: 218 .DIR DU1: (CZUFB1 User Tests) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 MENU .BIC 14-MAR-83 5 000073 2 MENU .CCC 23-OCT-83 18 000100 3 SYSTEM.CCC 30-AUG-83 26 000123 4 ZRQCA2.BIC 2-NOV-83 4 000155 5 HDZSA0.BIC 16-JUN-83 2 000161 6 HUXEA0.BIC 5-JUL-83 2 000163 7 LCPX .BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000165 8 LCPDX .BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000302 9 LCPZX .BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000417 10 LCPZDX.BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000534 11 JKL5A2.BIC 29-JUL-83 94 000651 12 VMSBA1.BIC 2-AUG-83 10 001007 13 VDZAD1.BIC 29-JUL-83 17 001021 14 VDZBC1.BIC 1-AUG-83 17 001042 15 ZRQABD.BIC 19-AUG-83 71 001063 16 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 001172 ?.? 17 HUDIB0.SYS 26-MAR-81 5 001222 ?.? 18 HELP .TXT 17-MAR-83 10 001227 19 MENU .HLP 25-FEB-83 4 001241 20 HCDQC0.SYS 2-AUG-83 18 001245 ?.? 21 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 001267 ?.? 22 UPD2 .BIC 5-NOV-82 26 001273 FREE BLOCKS: 76 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Tue May 4 01:07:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP)? References: <200405030328.i433SAFj030049@spies.com> Message-ID: <000901c4319e$1232a800$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> I may have some sales lit. I need a faster scanner before I attempt to start processing any of this stuff.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: Re: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP)? > > > > Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical info > available on the HP250 machines? > > -- > > check out www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/250 > > I should have more information on the 300 soon. > AFAIK the 300 and 3000/S33 were pretty much the same hardware except for microcode. > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 03:51:16 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? Message-ID: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? I have one. After a bit of detective work, I got it to at least somewhat work. I now have it to the point where I can connect it up and turn it on. When I do, I get nothing until one of the buttons on the puck is pressed, at which point it starts generating a stream of samples, continuing for as long as some button is pressed. The format is fairly easy, just %04d,%04d,%1d\n sent with the 0x80 bits set to provide even parity, where the four-digit numbers are the location (based on an 8.5" edge of a piece of paper and some arithmetic, it appears to be 200dpi) and the last indicates what button is pressed. This makes it all at least somewhat usable. But I'd really like to be able to get samples back even when no buttons are pressed, whence my question. The back does include a sticker saying, among other things, "BIT PAD FORMAT", which may or may not mean anything useful. I did go a-googling, but either there's nothing to be found or I didn't guess the right incantation to find it. `Summagraphics MM1103 serial protocol' turns up no hits - though it probably will once this message gets archived and googled :) - and neither did `"bit pad format"'. It _is_ on-topic; there's a sticker on the back with a Date: field containing a handwritten date that is clearly in 1984 (it appears to read "10/17/84"), which contains other text implying it was added by a leasing/service organization. Thoughts? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Tue May 4 04:52:01 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <409767C1.5080205@gmx.net> I have a SummaSketch MM1201 and the documentation for it. The protocol doesn't match your description. But maybe it helps a little bit anyway. Baud Rate: 9600 # Start Bits: 1 # Stop Bits: 1 # Data Bits: 8 Parity Bit: Odd Data Format: MSB bits LSB 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 byte 1 1 PR 0 Sx Sy Fc Fb Fa byte 2 0 X6 X5 X4 X3 X2 X1 X0 byte 3 0 X13 X12 X11 X10 X9 X8 X7 byte 4 0 Y6 Y5 Y4 Y3 Y2 Y1 Y0 byte 5 0 Y13 Y12 Y11 Y10 Y9 Y8 Y7 F is the flag bit, identifying the stylus or puck buttons being pressed: Stylus Puck Binary Output Buttons Buttons Fc Fb Fa none none 0 0 0 tip button 1 0 0 1 barrel button 2 0 1 0 tip and barrel 3 0 1 1 - 4 1 0 0 - 1+2 0 1 1 - 1+3 0 1 1 - 1+4 1 0 1 - 2+3 0 1 1 - 2+4 1 1 0 - 1+2+3 0 1 1 - 1+2+4 1 1 1 - 2+3+4 1 1 1 - 1+2+3+4 1 1 1 Sy and Sx are the sign bits for the Y and X coordinates. 1 is positive. 0 is negative. PR is the proximity bit. When stylus or puck is in proximity, the bit is 0. When out of proximity, it is 1. X0..X13 and Y0..Y13 are the X and Y coordinates. Gerold der Mouse schrieb: > Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol > spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? > > I have one. After a bit of detective work, I got it to at least > somewhat work. I now have it to the point where I can connect it up > and turn it on. When I do, I get nothing until one of the buttons on > the puck is pressed, at which point it starts generating a stream of > samples, continuing for as long as some button is pressed. The format > is fairly easy, just %04d,%04d,%1d\n sent with the 0x80 bits set to > provide even parity, where the four-digit numbers are the location > (based on an 8.5" edge of a piece of paper and some arithmetic, it > appears to be 200dpi) and the last indicates what button is pressed. > > This makes it all at least somewhat usable. But I'd really like to be > able to get samples back even when no buttons are pressed, whence my > question. > > The back does include a sticker saying, among other things, "BIT PAD > FORMAT", which may or may not mean anything useful. I did go > a-googling, but either there's nothing to be found or I didn't guess > the right incantation to find it. `Summagraphics MM1103 serial > protocol' turns up no hits - though it probably will once this message > gets archived and googled :) - and neither did `"bit pad format"'. > > It _is_ on-topic; there's a sticker on the back with a Date: field > containing a handwritten date that is clearly in 1984 (it appears to > read "10/17/84"), which contains other text implying it was added by a > leasing/service organization. > > Thoughts? > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue May 4 05:19:03 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) References: Message-ID: <0d3d01c431c1$399f0af0$6800a8c0@athlon> My 98036A serial interface is in a plastic case but the 98034B HPIB interface is in a diecast case. DaveB Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:09 PM Subject: Re: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) snip a lot > Have you seen a metal-cased I/O module for these machines? One of my HPIB > interfaces is in a die-cast case, not a plastic one. > > > -tony > > From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Tue May 4 04:34:17 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040504203417.010eb2fc@pop-server> At 10:08 AM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: > You forgot to attach her message and/or address. > > AFIK there were no options for the original Portable. I've had several >and read the manuals and I don't remember hearing of any options. But it's >been a long time and I could be wrong. I think somewhere I still have an >original brochure and some manuals but don't ask me to find them. I can't >find half the stuff that I thought I knew where it was. > > IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. >The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a >hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the >factory or a third party job. > > Joe The Portable II is a 286 (8MHz from memory). I had a couple once, both had factory fitted 20MB HDDs. The HDDs were Miniscribe 8425s. A 3.5" MFM drive mounted on rubber in a bracket that would almost fill a full height 5.25" drive bay. In both the machines a WD (with a Compaq sticker) MFM to IDE adapter was used to run it off the IDE port on the original Compaq I/O card. Both of mine had Compaq CGA cards in them, but they did better than CGA text. I think EGA was available later. I had a Deskpro 386 with a Compaq EGA card. The EGA card has an internal video connector that matched the Portable II's monitor connector. I never tried this out, I sold the deskpro before I got the Portable IIs. I had a Portable I. It had 256KB on the motherboard, but could be expanded to 640KB with an ISA memory card like (almost) any other XT. From memory there was a Portable Plus, a Portable I with a 10MB HDD. I've still got a Portable 486, I think that was the last of the luggables. It looks like a smaller version of the Portable III case, but with an LCD display rather than plasma. 486DX2-66, 16MB RAM,500MB SCSI HDD, 2 ISA slots, mains powers only. Definitely not a laptop, would be a nice little machine (well, as nice as a 486 luggable gets anyway) if the display worked properly. From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Tue May 4 05:05:14 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: 2 PDP-11/04s available in Melbourne, Australia Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040504210514.010ebae0@pop-server> Available for free (pick up only, I can't think of a viable way to ship these) in the SE suburbs or Melbourne. 2 x PDP-11/04s 4 x RL01 drives Misc. RL01 disk packs, cables, etc. No racks They're in rough condition. They've been sitting on the back verandah of my house for some time now. Out of the rain, but exposed to the elements. I removed them from a building that was being vandalized and eventually demolished. A planned move that would have seen them more appropriately housed fell through. I haven't attempted to power them up. They used to be the character generator and animation system for a large scoreboard. One of the RL01s is damaged. There are dents and scratches from where someone has hit it with something. The VT100s there didn't fare so well. I doubt any of the disk packs will be salvageable, they've been thrown around (I found this lot after tripping over a disk pack while I was walking through the long grass). Getting this stuff down from the 5th floor was hard work on my own. I was hoping to get it up and running again one day, but probably should have passed it on to someone else long ago. I recall offering these to someone on this list sometime ago, but I lost contact (my apologies, not his fault). From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 07:30:22 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer (+one on Ebay for $500) Message-ID: <200405041230.i44CUMdl069761@huey.classiccmp.org> >I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. >Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the >sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM >and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor >configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely >didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time >before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup >battery or CMOS setup storage. Lunchbox, Plasma, 640k and no-expansion all sound right, however it's definately a 286, and according to the Compaq literature as well as several web sites I've just checked, that's what's supposed to be in there... Here's a guy on Ebay trying to sell one for $500 ... any takers? :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=4127904926 [I'd even let mine go at that price - found at garage sale for $5] The setup software was a bootable diskette (like the original IBM-AT)... It definately has a CMOS RAM and battery, because mine is dead and doesn't hold a charge, causing the machine to fail it's startup disgnostics if you leave it for more than a day or two. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 07:30:22 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <200405041230.i44CUMdl069760@huey.classiccmp.org> >> If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >> get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure >> the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >> checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a >> CMOS Checksum error. > >http://www.compaq.com/support/files/obsolete_diagnostics.html >I THINK that it includes what you need, along with some other junk. Thanks! - that was exactly what I wanted - works perfectly! Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 07:55:23 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface Message-ID: <200405041255.i44CtNdl069924@huey.classiccmp.org> At 23:57 03/05/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for >> the 64? >> Cheers >> Stu >> >Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some >1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. Is this the RS-232 module valled "VIC 1011A" which connects to the C64 "User port"? If so, I found one in a box of Commodore stuff I picked up this weekend... (Sorry, I don't think I want to part with it just yet, and it would be a long way to send it anyway). If anyone has some info on this device, it would be appreciated. I tried to look inside, however after removing the single screw from the bottom, it still seemed to be glued together, and I didn't want to break it. I'm guessing that it's just level converters for a "bit bash" serial port... If so, it should not be hard to cook something up yourself. Here is a page giving some information on rolling your own C64 serial port: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/projects/rs232/ Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 07:42:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504084253.0089ccc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:00 PM 5/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >> I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >>II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >>640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >>remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >>a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. > >FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on >my site if anyone wants to see one. > >If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure >the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a >CMOS Checksum error. Mike Haas has has the setup disk. I gave it to him along with the P-IIIs that I had. The setup program should also be one several of the machines. FWIW I once found a third party setup program that worked on them. I don't remember the name of it but I'm pretty sure that it was put out by a company in Clearwater Florida that was later bought out by Quarterdeck. I may still have a copy of it or the Compaq setup program. I'll look and see. One thing to be aware of is that only the very first few drive table enties match that used by IBM so be carefull setting the hard drive type. Joe > >Regards, >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:16:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040503162348.008378b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504091607.0092e370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:09 AM 5/4/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One >> > >> >I think I may well have that. >> >> That would be cool! I have four or five 9845s but I don't think any of >> mine have that option. > >What do you have in the far right slot? Is it a single PCB with an HP >metal-heatsinked hybrid on it, a set of 3 boards, or what? I can't tell you at the moment. Mine are all in storage. I sort of lost interest in them. They're a PITA to keep working and take up too much room. If anybody wants one come and get it. I have several and I don't think I'm going to bother with them any more. I will not ship!!! These are big, heavy and awkward! > >Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial >to dismantle. To take off the top cover you have to remove the 2 little >metal latch brackets for the montior first. And you have to remove the >keyboard/tape drive assembly to get the cards out, they just don't clear >the back edge of it when the keyboard is screwed down. Oh well... I agree that it could have been better. The 9845s are very unreliable. I'm having to constantly reove, clean and reseat the cards in order to keep them working. > >> >I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came >> >with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces >> >(!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather >> >hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. >> >> hard to find? Sheesh I find them all over. nearly every 9825 that I find > >They're not at all common in the UK... > >> comes with one. I just passed one up in a scrap yard a couple of weeks ago. >> Also passed up a couple of the RTC modules. The RTC modules with the IO >> cable are cool. You can interface them to external devices and trigger the > >All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, >it's just a cable you have to add. IIRC the main circuit board has a connector but IIRC you have to add the mating connector along with the cable. However I've been lucky and found a fair number of modules with the cables already installed. However I think they're all new. I don't think I've ever found one that had been wired up to anything. > >> devices or use the device to trigger events in the 9845. > >YEs.. > >That clock is one strange design. When the machine is powered up, the >clock is done in software on the HP microcontroller inside. But there's >also a digital watch chip (!) which is battery backed and used to keep >the time when the machine is powered down. > >The interface to the watch chip is what you might expect. a couple of >'buttons' for things like selecting the time/date, setting the clock, >etc, digit strobes (outputs from the watch chip) and the 7-segment >outputs (one of which isn't used, since the microcontroller can identify >the digit without it). I think there's also an annunciator output, which >means there are only 3 digit strobes (the most significant digit is >either blank or 1, both for time and US-style date, so you just need a >single line for it, rather than a complete digit.) You can actually >attach a 7 segment display to traces on the board and get it to display >the time when the clock module is starting up. That's interesting. I hadn't looked that close at the workings of the time module and had no idea that it was built that way. I wonder why it included all of that? > >Incidentally, the clock testpoint mentioned in the manual is one of the >digit strobes. That's why it's a division of 3 from a power-of-2 >frequency. And that's what 'gave it away' when I was sorting out just >what was going on on that board. > >The clocks are fairly common, ones that have not been damaged by battery >electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel >interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O >cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I >am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. So am I. I think I have one or two of them but that's all. > >Have you seen a metal-cased I/O module for these machines? One of my HPIB >interfaces is in a die-cast case, not a plastic one. Yes I've seen several of those. I've heard of something called "Tin-roof" or somesuch and it think it referred to those. I think it was a change to make them comply with some new RFI emissions requirements. I had some messages that referred to it but I lost them when my HD crashed. Joe > > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 07:37:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) In-Reply-To: <53CB7766CBAB9148BCB56ABC56F408CF5FEF37@california.drso.biz > Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504083715.008a5a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Karen, Why do you need the CS/80 manual to access the 7946? You should be able to connect it to a HP 9000 computer and have the computer read it without doing anything else. Are you trying to read a tape or the hard drive? Joe in Oviedo Florida. At 02:16 PM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >Glen, >I found this link >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002328.html >while searching for this manual. Do you still have a copy of it? And would you be willing to share? I have an HP 7946 tape drive I need to access and the manual is nowhere to be found. > >Karen Reid >Sr. Test Engineer >DRS Optronics, Inc. >100 N. Babcock St. >Melbourne, FL 32935 >321.309.1865 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:05:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504090519.008a5d50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:09 PM 5/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:01 -0500 (CDT) >Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >> >II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >> >640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >> >remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >> >a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. >> >> FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on >> my site if anyone wants to see one. >> >> If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >> get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure >> the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >> checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a >> CMOS Checksum error. >> > >I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. > That is odd! I've had about 8 or 10 of the P-IIIs and they were all 286/386 type machines. They definitely used CMOs setups and batteries and the batteries were always running down and losing the settings. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:11:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: References: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504091106.009273a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> That sounds right. I was thinking of the Portable/Plus model but called it a P-II. I had quite few of the P-IIIs with the optional expansion units. They made nice little controllers for HP-IL, HP-IB and EPROM programmers. Joe At 02:27 AM 5/4/04 -0400, Bill wrote: > >Compaq Case Rough >Designation Style Specs >------------ -------- ----- > >Portable IBM 5155 Style, 8088, 256K, CRT, AC > >Portable/Plus " , 8088, 640K with Rev C ROM, CRT EGA, AC > >Portable II " , 80286, CRT EGA, AC > >Portable III Breadbox , 80286 8/12 MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG >optional). > Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC > >Portable 286 Same as above > >Portable 386 Breadbox , 80386 20MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG optional). > Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC > >SLT286 Lunchbox , 80286 8/12MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC >w/adapter > >SLT386 Lunchbox , 80386 ?MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC >w/adapter > > > > >> On Mon, 3 May 2004 Scott Stevens wrote: >> >> I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February >> was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox >> configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it >> and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM >> and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with >> different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a >> 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a >> Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time >> before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had >> didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. >> >> >> >> > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 08:27:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: BASICON MC-1N docs *scored*! Message-ID: <20040504132729.GA3732@bos7.spole.gov> I finally heard back from the gentleman who responds to requests from the e-mail address at Basicon's former site... he sent me scans of some paper docs... JPGs, but quite legible. It fits the final pieces of the puzzle together for me, including fixing an ambiguity I had with one of the power/comms connector pins, and giving programming examples for talking to the MM58154A clock/calendar chip. If you ever happen to run across a 3"x4" board with an INS8073 and an 8255, embedded in something, nab it - it's a cool little piece of the early 1980s. Thanks to all for your input and help figuring this thing out. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 13:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.2 F (-66.3 C) Windchill -145.1 F (-98.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12 kts Grid 024 Barometer 673.1 mb (10888. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:52:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3FD89E28.50301@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504095236.00b219f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Do you have the serial number? You should report it to Steve Gabaly (SP?). He was keeping a list of all the Altair serial numbers that he could find. I don't have his e-mail address any more but he's Obtronix on E-bay. Joe At 08:41 AM 12/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >Has anyone seen an altair 8800 with a circular keylock power switch, I >would like to track down the bastard >that ripped me off a long time ago. >This was in Oregon, 20 years from before, He ripped off a bunch of other >people, IMHO, Jim Willing and Mike Boyd. >His position was last reported in Eugene, that was years ago. >Jim Davis. > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:19:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT100 terminal parts available Message-ID: <00f201c431e2$d2a64b20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have 2 VT100 terminals plus a vt100 plastic shell that I'm parting out. They are VERY yellowed cases, obviously a smoking environment. Definitely some screen burnin too. On at least one of them the fasteners that hold the top of the case to the bottom of the case are broken. I don't think they are worth much more than the junk heap. They all power up and go into setup mode just fine. They are all true VT100's, not 102's, etc. Some or all of the keyboards are missing some keycaps. I think one keyboard may have all it's keys. In addition, I have a vt102 without the top or bottom case. It is in perfect working order, clean, and no burnin with one major flaw. The metal band around the front of the tube has slipped, meaning two of the L brackets that are held down by that band have slipped back so the monitor is about 1/2 inch forward of where it should be. Thus it won't fit into a plastic case quite right. The band is too tight to push the L brackets back into place, and I'm not comfortable cutting that band and trying to put a new one in place (something about working with a large glass object under pressure scares me a bit). So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 vt100's. If anyone wants me to scavenge parts (logic board, power supply board, flyback, transformer, keycaps, crt tube, etc.) I would be happy to do that. Total price for each shipment will be shipping cost + 5 bucks (unless you just want a keycap or something)...negotiable. The only stipulation is you must let me know in a day or two, I'm itching to get them out of the house and gone. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:20:01 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question Message-ID: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, copy, print", something like that. My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have something unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. Anyone know the answer? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 09:29:50 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16535.43230.576000.770768@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: Fred> Well, some of the 11/34's I am currently working on for some of Fred> you guys are Tek-labelled. Since these are labelled CP1134, I Fred> will just assume that Tek took 11/60's, and rebadged them into Fred> CP1160 in your case? No, that doesn't look at all like an 11/60. Those have a narrow console with pushbuttons, not the classic lights and switches style as shown in the CP-1160 photo. Someone said it's an 11/35, and that seems about right. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 08:00:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available Message-ID: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have 2 VT100 terminals plus a vt100 plastic shell that I'm parting out. They are VERY yellowed cases, obviously a smoking environment. Definitely some screen burnin too. On at least one of them the fasteners that hold the top of the case to the bottom of the case are broken. I don't think they are worth much more than the junk heap. They all power up and go into setup mode just fine. They are all true VT100's, not 102's, etc. Some or all of the keyboards are missing some keycaps. I think one keyboard may have all it's keys. In addition, I have a vt102 without the top or bottom case. It is in perfect working order, clean, and no burnin with one major flaw. The metal band around the front of the tube has slipped, meaning two of the L brackets that are held down by that band have slipped back so the monitor is about 1/2 inch forward of where it should be. Thus it won't fit into a plastic case quite right. The band is too tight to push the L brackets back into place, and I'm not comfortable cutting that band and trying to put a new one in place (something about working with a large glass object under pressure scares me a bit). So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 vt100's. If anyone wants me to scavenge parts (logic board, power supply board, flyback, transformer, keycaps, crt tube, etc.) I would be happy to do that. Total price for each shipment will be shipping cost + 5 bucks (unless you just want a keycap or something)...negotiable. The only stipulation is you must let me know in a day or two, I'm itching to get them out of the house and gone. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From kth at srv.net Tue May 4 09:57:29 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4097AF59.8010206@srv.net> Jay West wrote: >I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On >the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match >the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the >keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, >blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, >copy, print", something like that. > > > It's a word processing keyboard, probably for some version of DecWord, or WordPerfect. Both used colored PFn keys. They were optional keyboards, but quite common. Available for the VT200 series also. >My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another >non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used >with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have something >unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge >the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. > >Anyone know the answer? > >Thanks! > >Jay West > > > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue May 4 09:52:28 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405040752.28052.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Decmate keyboards are like that. The keyboards are Wordprocessing oriented - and the "gold" key was very important ;-) They work the same as standard DEC LKxxx keyboards. Lyle On Tuesday 04 May 2004 07:20, Jay West wrote: > I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On > the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match > the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the > keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - > red, blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like > "left, copy, print", something like that. > > My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another > non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used > with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have > something unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and > scavenge the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to > junk. > > Anyone know the answer? > > Thanks! > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:48:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question Message-ID: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been wondering for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 terminal???? I can't find it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not looking for a key combo that interrupts a specific host platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to generate a real electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 09:54:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16535.44732.353000.982174@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a Jay> listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric Jay> keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on Jay> the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the Jay> other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white Jay> - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, Jay> copy, print", something like that. Jay> My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from Jay> another non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this Jay> some option used with some word processing software? If the Jay> later, I'm happy I have something unusual. If the former, I am Jay> going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge the "correct" keys Jay> from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. Those are DECword (a.k.a., WPS) keycaps. The gold key is the dead giveaway -- WPS used that as a command prefix, similar to the way TECO and Emacs use ESC. You'd be more likely to find those keycaps on an LK201 style keyboard, to go with a DECmate. Or they would appear on a box that looks like a VT52 -- an older WPS box. But the VT100 series keyboard makes sense; if nothing else, that could go with the WPS-Plus application that was part of one of KO's stranger brainstorms. That was a port of the WPS system to VMS, and then backported to a PDP11 (RSX or RSTS) for terribly bad performance, written in a brand new programming language (KOALA) never seen before or since. So you have something legit and somewhat unusual. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 08:15:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 terminal question? Message-ID: <008d01c431d9$e6504120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, copy, print", something like that. My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have something unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. Anyone know the answer? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:51:42 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Televideo 910 question Message-ID: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> My, I'm just full of terminal questions... I have a Televideo 910.. maybe it's a 950 but I think it said 910 on it. When the terminal is just sitting there with stuff on the screen, no data is being sent or received... it will suddenly flip to a "previous screen" all by itself. I don't know if the terminal supports multiple pages of display memory, but the symptom is as if it does support multiple display memory and spontaneously all by itself it switches pages and I see data on the screen that came by a while ago. Can anyone point to a likely culprit that may be causing this? The terminal itself is in perfect mint condition so I hate to get rid of it but this problem is annoying! Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 10:08:35 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16535.45555.654000.891784@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been Jay> wondering for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 Jay> terminal???? I can't find it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm Jay> not looking for a key combo that interrupts a specific host Jay> platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to generate a real Jay> electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? Yes. One of the F keys (F5?). The "BREAK" will appear on the function key label strip that goes under the flip-up clear cover above the row of function keys. It's on the label strip because the BREAK function (and other things, like SETUP) apply to terminals but not necessarily to other things that use the LK2xx series keyboard (like a PRO). You may also need to enable Break via setup; some vague memory says that it can be configured to be a regular break or it can be made to send control/C. Not sure about that; just walk through the setup menus to see if there's any mention of it there. paul From MTPro at aol.com Tue May 4 10:15:15 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable computer Message-ID: <072F41D1.4C2AA91E.0000EF7A@aol.com> << I had a Portable I. It had 256KB on the motherboard, but could be expanded to 640KB with an ISA memory card like (almost) any other XT. From memory there was a Portable Plus, a Portable I with a 10MB HDD. >> Thanks to everyone for the discussion and answers; I will forward along the information to the woman. I actually did forward her e-mail to the list, but I guess the list server does not allow that and only submitted my e-mail "shell." Best, David, classiccomputing.com From jpl15 at panix.com Tue May 4 10:22:12 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been wondering > for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 terminal???? I can't find > it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not looking for a key combo that > interrupts a specific host platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to > generate a real electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is not a signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual signal current flowing in the terminal circuit. This makes sense in a 'current loop' environment, such as DC-loop teletype circuits. One presses the 'BREAK' key, switching off the loop, and all the machines in that loop begin to 'run open' - they just start cycling mechanically, since in most classic mechanical TTYs, the loop current serves to hold the mechanism clutch(es) in the 'start' or 'ready' position, waiting for code pulses to come along and set up a character printing cycle. Second: I am not sure that the newer 20ma current loop devices - ASR33s, and DEC (and other) devices that use 20ma loop serial - will use this actual electrical 'break' for an "ATTENTION" signal. Anyone...? On my VT220, as connected to a VAXStation 3100, depressing the 'BREAK' key on the LK401 causes an immediate processor halt and the display of a monitor prompt... >>> . Since I have it hooked up using the RS232 port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in RS232 - it must be some other code... or, is it? The VT220 Programmer Pocket Guide just says that he first 5 top-row keys are "local function keys and do not generate codes." The actual VT220 Operator's Manual expands on this a bit - the 'BREAK' function has to be enabled in set-up, and one can also issue a shift-break to start a 'disconnect', or a cntrl-break to send the 'answerback' sequence to the host machine. But it still doesn't tell me what the hardware does when pressing 'BREAK'. IF no one knows, I'll have to get out the break-out box and see if I can trap it. Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 10:26:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504095236.00b219f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3FD89E28.50301@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year ago! Joe At 09:52 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: > Do you have the serial number? You should report it to Steve Gabaly >(SP?). He was keeping a list of all the Altair serial numbers that he could >find. I don't have his e-mail address any more but he's Obtronix on E-bay. > > Joe > > >At 08:41 AM 12/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >>Has anyone seen an altair 8800 with a circular keylock power switch, I >>would like to track down the bastard >>that ripped me off a long time ago. >>This was in Oregon, 20 years from before, He ripped off a bunch of other >>people, IMHO, Jim Willing and Mike Boyd. >>His position was last reported in Eugene, that was years ago. >>Jim Davis. >> >> >> > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 10:26:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <016c01c431ec$330ab880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> John wrote... > Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is not a > signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual signal current > flowing in the terminal circuit. This makes sense in a 'current loop' > environment, such as DC-loop teletype circuits. and > Since I have it hooked up using the RS232 > port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in > RS232 yes there is. and > But it still doesn't tell me what the hardware does when pressing > 'BREAK'. IF no one knows, I'll have to get out the break-out box and > see if I can trap it. A "BREAK" in RS232 is a "signal" at least in the sense that most receiving hardware can detect it and do "special things" upon receipt. I am going from foggy memory, but as I recall, a break is a long space or mark, longer than any valid word format timing would normally indicate with no logic state changes inbetween. So there is no "BREAK" "character" as it's not a character with start & stop bits. I seem to remember that most UARTS (8250 is my experience) will detect a break condition and set a flag in the status register to indicate receipt of a break. A bit of squirrelyness though, on many terminals you can set the length (in ms) of the break signal to various values as some hosts require the "long character" to be at least X ms. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue May 4 10:36:18 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year ago! Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was wondering the same thing! From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 10:36:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16535.47249.15421.122972@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: >> Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been >> wondering for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 >> terminal???? I can't find it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not >> looking for a key combo that interrupts a specific host platform >> like ^C or ^P or something, I want to generate a real electrical >> "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? John> Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is John> not a signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual John> signal current flowing in the terminal circuit. This makes John> sense in a 'current loop' environment, such as DC-loop teletype John> circuits. ... John> I am not sure that the newer 20ma current loop devices - John> ASR33s, and DEC (and other) devices that use 20ma loop serial - John> will use this actual electrical 'break' for an "ATTENTION" John> signal. Anyone...? Yes, they do. In the ASR33, Break functions exactly as you described it. On newer devices, Break is generally defined as "open the circuit for several character times" or "open the circuit for at least 200 ms", something like that. John> On my VT220, as connected to a VAXStation 3100, depressing the John> 'BREAK' key on the LK401 causes an immediate processor halt and John> the display of a monitor prompt... >>> . Since I have it John> hooked up using the RS232 port, and since there is no such John> thing as a real interrupting 'break' in RS232 - it must be some John> other code... or, is it? Break most definitely IS defined on RS232. There's a one to one correspondence between current loop and RS232 levels: closed loop is mark and open loop is space, and mark and space correspond to the two RS232 signal levels. (I may have mark and space reversed... the McNamara book has all this but it's buried.) So Break defined as "send space for > 200 ms" works perfectly well in RS232. The UARTs at the computer end either recognize break directly and report it explicitly, or (in older ones) the driver uses a definition of the form "if I get a framing error associated with a character code 0xff, it's a break". On DEC consoles, Break has traditionally been the "talk to the console microcode" attention signal. On other terminal lines, Break if often translated to control/C (it is on RSTS, for example, or at least it can be configured that way). Every DEC terminal I know of has support for Break for this reason. paul From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 10:38:31 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (dave04a@dunfield.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question Message-ID: <232810-22004524153831825@M2W070.mail2web.com> >On my VT220, as connected to a VAXStation 3100, depressing the 'BREAK' >key on the LK401 causes an immediate processor halt and the display of a >monitor prompt... >>> . Since I have it hooked up using the RS232 >port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in >RS232 - it must be some other code... or, is it? The VT220 Programmer >Pocket Guide just says that he first 5 top-row keys are "local function >keys and do not generate codes." > > But it still doesn't tell me what the hardware does when pressing >'BREAK'. IF no one knows, I'll have to get out the break-out box and >see if I can trap it. BREAK on typical RS-232 terminal simply sets the line to the SPACE condition for a number of character intervals. This causes a framing error at the receiver (no stop bit) and many system will time this and if it persists long enough will interpret it as a system attention function. Better terminals will generate a timed pulse when break is depressed, some terminals simply send a space condition for as long as the key is held down. Regards, Dave Dunfield -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From jpl15 at panix.com Tue May 4 10:51:54 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: RS232 break Message-ID: I see that my RS232 lore needs a bit of brushing up! As much work as I've done with serial data thingys, ya think I'dve remembered something fundamental like that. And I was so pompously positive, too.. Let the Lashing begin! ;{} Cheers John PS: this certainly goes to the value of this List as educational tool - From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue May 4 10:51:08 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20040504175108.43063f2e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 4 May 2004 04:14:44 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > But in the case of DEC machines at least, the > individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase and neutral > > (star connected). The VAX6000 has a controled (?) six pulse rectifier that generates 400V DC from three phase mains. This DC current is distributed to the individual PSUs. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 10:53:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: RS232 break References: Message-ID: <019b01c431ef$f90c63a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > I see that my RS232 lore needs a bit of brushing up! To me, by far the best book on this topic is "RS-232 made easy". It truely pains me to say that about a book with "made easy" in the title, but honestly, the book is extremely thorough and very detailed. They have large sections of how to build up a code library in C to talk directly to an 8250 UART. Sections on parity generation methodologies, etc. Also has lots of information to give you a clear understanding of exactly how to wire up your own custom cables, like when to cross what signals (DTE vs. DCE), several suggested methods for handling devices with disparate versions of hardware control signals, etc. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 11:12:08 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 00:19, der Mouse wrote: > > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V > > phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on > > the third one. > > That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, > something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. No, it is a neutral, because it is grounded. On a three-phase delta, you ground the center tap of one (only one!) of the phases. > Certainly if you have three phases 120? apart such that there is > 240VRMS between any two phases, you can center-tap between any of two > them, but the tap won't be 0V to ground and thus I would maintain > that calling it "neutral" is misleading, enough so that I'd call it > _dangerously_ misleading. (By my calculations, it will be something > like 70V to ground, but I'm not sure I have the math straight.) In all of my examples, the neutrals were "grounded neutrals". Maybe I should have been more clear about that. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 11:45:42 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405041145.42546.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 11:12, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 00:19, der Mouse wrote: > > Certainly if you have three phases 120? apart such that there is > > 240VRMS between any two phases, you can center-tap between any of > > two them, but the tap won't be 0V to ground and thus I would > > maintain that calling it "neutral" is misleading, enough so that > > I'd call it _dangerously_ misleading. (By my calculations, it will > > be something like 70V to ground, but I'm not sure I have the math > > straight.) Rereading this, I should explain something I think. If you don't connect a ground to the secondaries, there is no ground, and the voltage are "floating" with respect to ground. You can connect a ground to any point on the secondary you wish, as long as it's only one voltage potential you've called ground. For a wye, the ground is the connection point between the three separate tranformer secondaries (one per phase), and for a delta, it's the one point you pick on the set of the three secondaries. You have to remember that the *only* way you establish a relation to ground potential on the secondary side of the line tranformer is by connecting ground to some point on the secondary side. For example, if you decided to connect the transformer like this: (240V) (12kV) Secondary Primary A---B +---X Y \ / | \ / C----+ G | Z Your secondaries would now be at (about) 7kV +-240V, assuming that "G" was grounded on the primary side. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From allain at panix.com Tue May 4 12:20:46 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: SunTurboxGX card names. Possibly OT. References: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <005701c431fc$24014880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> At the TCF I go a Sun video card (with a STP3010PGA TurboxGX chip on it) as _scrap_. It's broken, but interesting in that it has printed on the PCB: "Curtis, Chris M, Joe, Brian, Kevin, Chris O., ... Mike, Bruce, Don, Anissa, Tony, Young" and the names Curtis, Chris M, and Bruce are printed with an X over them, rather than being removed. Is this a list of designers like on the inside of the Mac? Why did they cross out the three names rather than just drop them? Looking for more of a story here, in case someone knows. It's a lot of board realestate used, sounds like it might've been an interesting project. Less obscure question follows this one. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 12:27:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:36 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: >> Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year >ago! > >Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was >wondering >the same thing! > > No five months ago it also made a reappearance. I think I originally sent it about 1 1/2 or 2 years ago. Joe From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue May 4 12:35:20 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I'd venture a guess of this as the originating machine from the headers: Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i44Du683015611 for ; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Anything there look recognizable? David On Tue, 4 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 11:36 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: > >> Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year > >ago! > > > >Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was > >wondering > >the same thing! > > > > > > No five months ago it also made a reappearance. I think I originally > sent it about 1 1/2 or 2 years ago. > > Joe > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 4 12:48:15 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >I'd venture a guess of this as the originating machine from the headers: > >Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) > by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id >i44Du683015611 for > ; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) > >Anything there look recognizable? > >David It looks like the following (from the message in December), except for the SMTP id, AND the SMTP server itself. Very weird. Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) by ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id hBBHi278009495 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:44:03 -0500 (EST) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 13:32:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Cool stuff! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504143213.00820e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> About a month ago I picked up what I thought were a couple of HP-IB disk drives made by a compnay by the name of IEM of Ft. Collins Colorado. I searched the net for information about them but didn't find anything useful. I also posted message here asking about them but didn't get any replies. Last week I got one of my PCs up and running with a HP Hyper Viper card (a HP 9000 300 computer on a card) in it so I decided to use it to check out some of the HP-IB drives and such that have been piling up around here. I found a couple of sites that said what kind of MO disks were supposed to be used in the IEM MO drive but I didn't have the right ones so I stuck in a HP MO disk that I had laying round. It worked! The system thinks the drive is a HP 7935 with 404Mb capacity. Flip the disk over and you've got another 404Mb to play with. Not bad! The 2nd IEM drive turned out to be even stranger. In addition to the HP-IB port it has what looked like a SCSI port on the back. It has a LCD display on and it keeps saying off-line. There are also three buttons on it marked Select, Next and Previous. Pressing the buttons did nothing except make the display say "Next Pressed" etc. I finally turned it off then held down the Select button and turned it on and it came up in a demo mode. It says that it's a "Rewriteable Optical Jukebox Controller"!! It says that it's compatible with the HP 1000, 3000, 9000, etc etc and that it is CS-80 and plug and play with MPE, HPUX, Pascal BASIC, RTE, etc etc. It also says that it supports the C1700/C1701 HP Library System. So it's not a drive after all. (I never opened it up, I just assumed that it was!) That also explains why it has a SCSI connector on it. Anybody here have any experience with optical jukeboxs? I've done a lot of searching on the net for IEM but it appears that they're long gone. I found phone numbers for them but didn't get an answer on either one. I didn't find ANYTHING about the jukebox controler but found a couple of sites that gave cross references for disks that can be used in the MO drive. Of course I'm not using any of those disks but it's working! Joe From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 13:30:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: <016c01c431ec$330ab880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <016c01c431ec$330ab880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405041833.OAA08674@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > A "BREAK" in RS232 is a "signal" at least in the sense that most > receiving hardware can detect it and do "special things" upon > receipt. I am going from foggy memory, but as I recall, a break is a > long space or mark, longer than any valid word format timing would > normally indicate with no logic state changes inbetween. Yes. A break condition can be thought of as a very long start bit, extended for at least ten bit times (and usually a good deal longer) - I'm not sure what the exact spec is. Indeed, I've seen software documentation that speaks of generating breaks by changing the speed and sending 0x00 characters. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 13:37:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 22:16, Nico de Jong wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > > > > > Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I > > > just would like a box of unused blank disks. > > > Be very careful when ordering disks. > You must specificy whether they are single or double density, and single or > double sided.. Yeah, unlike 5.25", the placement of the index hole determines the number of sides. (OK physical reality determines that there are always two sides to a floppy, the index hole just tells the drive which it may use.) "You can insert a floppy disk into a drive eight different ways, but only one of them is interesting." -- GEORGE MORROW (paraphrase, sorry, corrections appreciated) From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 13:42:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 Government Edition? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503162822.00863e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503162822.00863e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1083696131.2784.17.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 13:28, Joe R. wrote: > One of the things that I got was a > package of Lotus 123 version 2.01. It's marked as a Government Edition and > has an eagle of the disk labels. Anybody know what this is all about? Almost certainly just different software licensing. It's very common. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 13:44:25 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405041846.OAA08773@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> 240V three-phase is [...neutral...] >> That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, >> something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. > No, it is a neutral, because it is grounded. On a three-phase delta, > you ground the center tap of one (only one!) of the phases. Clash of assumptions - I had been assuming that the three phases of three-phase were symmetric with respect to ground. I see that's not always so.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From paul at frixxon.co.uk Tue May 4 13:50:39 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Televideo 910 question In-Reply-To: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4097E5FF.8070208@frixxon.co.uk> Jay West wrote: > My, I'm just full of terminal questions... > > I have a Televideo 910.. maybe it's a 950 but I think it said 910 on it. They can't be confused -- a 910 looks like an ADM-3A (but squarer, not as cute) and a 950 looks like a VT100, but narrower. > When the terminal is just sitting there with stuff on the screen, no data is > being sent or received... it will suddenly flip to a "previous screen" all > by itself. I don't know if the terminal supports multiple pages of display > memory, but the symptom is as if it does support multiple display memory and > spontaneously all by itself it switches pages and I see data on the screen > that came by a while ago. I don't _think_ the 910 supports pages of memory, but the 950 does. If this is doing it without you pressing any keys, I'd suspect the termcap or terminfo entries not being matched to the terminal, though that would be odd as well, as the 950 doesn't emulate anything else. Both manuals are online. -- Paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 13:50:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Televideo 910 question References: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4097E5FF.8070208@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <006301c43208$a36a5b00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Paul wrote... > They can't be confused -- a 910 looks like an ADM-3A (but squarer, not > as cute) and a 950 looks like a VT100, but narrower. Ok, it's a 950 then, cause it looks VERY much like a vt100, could be mistaken for one at first blush. > I don't _think_ the 910 supports pages of memory, but the 950 does. If > this is doing it without you pressing any keys, I'd suspect the termcap > or terminfo entries not being matched to the terminal, though that would > be odd as well, as the 950 doesn't emulate anything else. Both manuals > are online. It's definitely not getting any control/escape sequences from the host that are causing this, it's just doing it on it's own so I doubt termcap/terminfo has anything to do with it (specially since I'm running it on a TSB system, not unix) :) I'm using it as the system console, and I'm quite sure the host isn't sending any characters to it when it switches. Gotta be a hardware issue. So anyone have a spare main logic board for a 950? (I can hear Tony shuddering from here) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 14:11:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain Message-ID: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) Now I got hp2000.org and hp1000.org. Woohoo! Excuse my happy snoopy dance. Now if I can just find someone who knows html to create a webite for it.. ;) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wacarder at usit.net Tue May 4 14:26:30 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000601c4320d$b4ab8600$a0340f14@mcothran1> What kind of web site do you want? I can build you one in exchange for some of your surplus PDP-11 stuff. :-) - Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: hp domain > It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever > registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) > > Now I got hp2000.org and hp1000.org. Woohoo! Excuse my happy snoopy dance. > Now if I can just find someone who knows html to create a webite for it.. ;) > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 14:25:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Morrow (was: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: <20040504122402.T45270@newshell.lmi.net> Does anybody have a copy of "Quotations of Chairman Morrow"? On Tue, 4 May 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > "You can insert a floppy disk into a drive eight different ways, > but only one of them is interesting." > -- GEORGE MORROW > > (paraphrase, sorry, corrections appreciated) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 4 15:43:02 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <000601c4320d$b4ab8600$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <40980056.1040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Ashley Carder wrote: > What kind of web site do you want? I can build you one in exchange for some > of > your surplus PDP-11 stuff. :-) What do you think he plans to use as a server. :) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue May 4 16:01:27 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 Message-ID: Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? I've got one chip + 1 ROM that isn't either of the usual speech ROMs. This was supposed to have been pulled from a telephone answering machine. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue May 4 16:29:32 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <20040504175108.43063f2e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> <20040504175108.43063f2e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1083706172.7378.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 08:51, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2004 04:14:44 +0100 (BST) > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > But in the case of DEC machines at least, the > > individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase and neutral > > > > (star connected). > The VAX6000 has a controled (?) six pulse rectifier that generates 400V > DC from three phase mains. This DC current is distributed to the > individual PSUs. And the KL-10 CPU's power supply is 3-phase as well just because of the current requirements (12v@490A). -- TTFN - Guy From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue May 4 17:01:34 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409812BE.1030207@gifford.co.uk> Davison, Lee wrote: > Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? Yes, I have one. It's dated December 1980. The speech chip is a 40-pin package with a 4MHz clock and fairly standard address and data lines. I can send you a photocopy of the data sheet if that'd help. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Tue May 4 17:29:56 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > You were probably running 3.0! > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the Enhanced functions... Bob Maxwell - still running 3.1 on 486s at home - From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 17:35:11 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <16535.44732.353000.982174@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16535.44732.353000.982174@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040504223511.GB25360@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 10:54:52AM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: > > Jay> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a > Jay> listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric > Jay> keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on > Jay> the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the > Jay> other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white > Jay> - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, > Jay> copy, print", something like that. > > Those are DECword (a.k.a., WPS) keycaps. The gold key is the dead > giveaway -- WPS used that as a command prefix, similar to the way TECO > and Emacs use ESC. Yep... also EDT uses "PF1" a lot, but it was only called the "Gold Key" in WPS instructions. > You'd be more likely to find those keycaps on an LK201 style keyboard, > to go with a DECmate. Specifically a DECmate II or III(+). > Or they would appear on a box that looks like a VT52 -- an older > WPS box. WS-78, by another name, but it had an integral keyboard (being in a VT52 case). I can't say much about what it would look like; it's about the only PDP-8 that I'm missing. > But the VT100 series keyboard makes sense; if nothing else, that > could go with the WPS-Plus application that was part of one of KO's > stranger brainstorms. Not all that strange... WPS-Plus could import (via serial port if not through 8" floppies) from the PDP-8-version of WPS. The DECmate I is built into a VT100 housing and uses a standard VT100 keyboard. Because it was a dedicated terminal, they shipped with a keyboard as you describe, with word processing legends on many keys, and a Gold, Blue and Red key at the top of the number pad. > So you have something legit and somewhat unusual. Legit, yes... unusual, no. Sure, they made plenty more "plain" VT100 keyboards than WPS keyboards, but they did make a lot of WPS keyboards. As other people have pointed out, it's electrically identical to the more common variety. You'd only care about the legends if you wanted to run WPS on any one of the supported platforms. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 22:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.9 F (-63.3 C) Windchill -156.9 F (-105 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.7 kts Grid 010 Barometer 674.6 mb (10832. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 4 18:05:54 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <20040504223511.GB25360@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 04, 2004 10:35:11 PM Message-ID: <200405042305.i44N5soH004549@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Those are DECword (a.k.a., WPS) keycaps. The gold key is the dead > > giveaway -- WPS used that as a command prefix, similar to the way TECO > > and Emacs use ESC. > > Yep... also EDT uses "PF1" a lot, but it was only called the "Gold Key" > in WPS instructions. EDT calls it the "Gold Key" as well. For example on the AV-J756A-TC "EDT Editor Reference Card" I have sitting here on my desk it talks about the Gold Key on both the VT52 and VT100. Still true for EDT on OpenVMS 7.3-2. Zane From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 18:21:17 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <200405042321.i44NLHhc005881@huey.classiccmp.org> >>If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >>get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can >configure >>the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >>checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it >gets a >>CMOS Checksum error. > > Mike Haas has has the setup disk. I gave it to him along with the P-IIIs >that I had. The setup program should also be one several of the machines. >FWIW I once found a third party setup program that worked on them. I don't >remember the name of it but I'm pretty sure that it was put out by a >company in Clearwater Florida that was later bought out by Quarterdeck. I >may still have a copy of it or the Compaq setup program. I'll look and see. >One thing to be aware of is that only the very first few drive table enties >match that used by IBM so be carefull setting the hard drive type. > > Joe Thanks Joe, however the one I downloaded from other instructions posted in this thread appears to do the job, so no need to bother. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 18:05:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available In-Reply-To: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040504230554.GA27758@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 08:00:25AM -0500, Jay West wrote: > So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 > vt100's. If anyone wants me to scavenge parts (logic board, power supply > board, flyback, transformer, keycaps, crt tube, etc.) I would be happy to do > that. You wouldn't happen to have one of those cards that wedges in a slot in the VT100 logic board that has a couple of 10-pin DEC serial connectors and perhaps a cable? I've seen one once, but don't have one at the moment. My memory is that they were most useful with a VT103 to cleanly hook the ports on a DLV11J to the terminal port and the (optional) internal TU58s. Seeing as how I _have_ a VT103 at home, and have always wanted to throw a decent machine inside it (decent as in something with a hard drive and capable of running anything from RT-11 up through some flavor of UNIX), I think aquiring one of these serial adapter boards would be kinda handy... not essential, just handy. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.5 F (-63.1 C) Windchill -155.5 F (-104.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.3 kts Grid 010 Barometer 674.7 mb (10828. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue May 4 18:16:28 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> der Mouse wrote: > Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol > spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? I have two Summagraphics manuals, for the "Bit Pad One" and the "MM2101 and MM961 Data Tablets". They both list protocols, bit rates, DIP-switch setting and so on. Perhaps the Bit Pad One manual would be the one to look at? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 4 18:12:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available In-Reply-To: <20040504230554.GA27758@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 04, 2004 11:05:54 PM Message-ID: <200405042312.i44NCUwj004948@onyx.spiritone.com> > Seeing as how I _have_ a VT103 at home, and have always wanted to throw a > decent machine inside it (decent as in something with a hard drive and > capable of running anything from RT-11 up through some flavor of UNIX), > I think aquiring one of these serial adapter boards would be kinda handy... > not essential, just handy. > > -ethan My personal vote for stuffing inside of a VT100 terminal, is a Mini-ITX system! There is more than enough room where the card cage on a VT103 goes, to stick a Mini-ITX board and powersupply. The perfect Desktop PDP-10 and/or PDP-11! My only problem is I don't have room for one of my VT100's at home :^( Zane From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 18:18:43 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: ICL7660? Message-ID: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so I'd like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no negative comms voltage. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -160.3 F (-106.9 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 19.3 kts Grid 013 Barometer 674.8 mb (10824. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 17:59:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504185923.0083c2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Cool! Give me an account on it and I'll throw some of my HP 1000 pictures up there. Maybe you can mirror some of Al's HP 1000 docs there. Joe At 02:11 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever >registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) > >Now I got hp2000.org and hp1000.org. Woohoo! Excuse my happy snoopy dance. >Now if I can just find someone who knows html to create a webite for it.. ;) > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 18:00:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <40980056.1040902@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <000601c4320d$b4ab8600$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504190049.0083ec70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:43 PM 5/4/04 -0600, you wrote: >Ashley Carder wrote: >> What kind of web site do you want? I can build you one in exchange for some >> of >> your surplus PDP-11 stuff. :-) > >What do you think he plans to use as a server. :) It had better be an HP! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 18:29:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504192923.0083f760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:01 PM 5/4/04 +0100, you wrote: > >Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? No but it's online somewhere. I searched and found some interesting sites for these about 6 months ago. FWIW I have a HP-IB box that has one of these in it. I haven't figured it out entirely but it's cool as hell to send it a string over HP-Ib and listen to it talk. Joe > >I've got one chip + 1 ROM that isn't either of the usual speech >ROMs. This was supposed to have been pulled from a telephone >answering machine. > >Lee. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 17:51:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface In-Reply-To: <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> from "ghldbrd@ccp.com" at May 3, 4 11:57:17 pm Message-ID: > > > Hi everyone, > > Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for > > the 64? > > Cheers > > Stu > > > Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some > 1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. I remember there being a circuit for this in 'Electronics -- The Maplin Magazine' years ago. IIRC, it was mostly discrete components, I don't remember there being any ICs. I can try to find the article, I should have it somewhere. I know I don't have the PCBm, though. This is a ciecuit to convert the bit-banged serial port on the user port connector to RS232 levels. I assume that's what you're looking for. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 17:54:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 4, 4 01:19:51 am Message-ID: > > > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V phase-to-neutral > > on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on the third one. > > That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, something > that has zero nominal voltage to ground. There is no such thing as ground!. If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased centre-tapped (as we're describing here) complelete isolated from everything else (including ground), then you can ground any point of it that you like -- including one of the phases or the centre-tap point. Of course once you've picked a point to connect to ground, then you can't ground any other point in the circuit as well. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:02:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 4, 4 04:51:16 am Message-ID: > > Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol > spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? [..] > This makes it all at least somewhat usable. But I'd really like to be > able to get samples back even when no buttons are pressed, whence my > question. > > The back does include a sticker saying, among other things, "BIT PAD > FORMAT", which may or may not mean anything useful. I did go The Sumagraphics Bit Pad 1 was a very common tablet at one time. From waht I remember, and I do have the manual _somewhere_ (this being a real manual which documents the data format and includes schematics), there were 2 output formats. One was ASCII, sending the position in decimal (that;s what you've got), the other was binary. Which you got was set by a DIP switch inside. Another switch turned on streaming mode (I think that's what they called it) which caused the thing to send out coordinates all the time, even without a puck button being pressed. I think that's the mode you're asking for, I would guess you need to find the right DIP switches inside, which are doubtless different to those on the Bit Pad 1 -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:05:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <409767C1.5080205@gmx.net> from "Gerold Pauler" at May 4, 4 11:52:01 am Message-ID: > > I have a SummaSketch MM1201 and the documentation for it. > The protocol doesn't match your description. [...] > Data Format: > MSB bits LSB > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 > > byte 1 1 PR 0 Sx Sy Fc Fb Fa > byte 2 0 X6 X5 X4 X3 X2 X1 X0 > byte 3 0 X13 X12 X11 X10 X9 X8 X7 > byte 4 0 Y6 Y5 Y4 Y3 Y2 Y1 Y0 > byte 5 0 Y13 Y12 Y11 Y10 Y9 Y8 Y7 That seems to be the 'bianry' protocol that I remember from the Bit Pad 1. I couldnt have reproduced it from memory, but seeing that reminded me of things like the 1st byte had the MSB set, all others had it cleared, and so on. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:10:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available In-Reply-To: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at May 4, 4 08:00:25 am Message-ID: > In addition, I have a vt102 without the top or bottom case. It is in perfect > working order, clean, and no burnin with one major flaw. The metal band > around the front of the tube has slipped, meaning two of the L brackets that I would be very careful with that. This might be part of the implosion protection system (that sounds like a rimband to me, but it's not possible to be sure without seeing the CRT). I wouldn't want to use that CRT! > So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same type of CRT). The swap is not hard. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:17:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504091607.0092e370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 4, 4 09:16:07 am Message-ID: > >Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial [...] > I agree that it could have been better. The 9845s are very unreliable. > I'm having to constantly reove, clean and reseat the cards in order to keep > them working. They shouldn't be any worse than any other HP machine unless they've been stored badly and the connectors have not been properly cleaned. They use much the same edge conenctors as everything else. > >All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, > >it's just a cable you have to add. > > IIRC the main circuit board has a connector but IIRC you have to add the > mating connector along with the cable. However I've been lucky and found a Yes. You get the pin header on the PCB (with a loopback test connector normally). You have to remove that loopback conenctor and plug in the cable. It's a standard 0.1" pitch header, so the mating connector is trivial to find. > fair number of modules with the cables already installed. However I think None of mine came with cables, but that was soon cured :-) [The watch chip ans the microcontroller] > That's interesting. I hadn't looked that close at the workings of the > time module and had no idea that it was built that way. I wonder why it > included all of that? Prsumably they needed the functionallity of the microcontroller when the machine was powered up for things like triggering external events, responding to the inputs, etc. But the micorcontroller, ROM, etc took too much power to be battery-backed so they had to add a lower-power clock for when the machine was turend off. A watch chip, suitably repackaged (it's in a 24 pin DIP IIRC) was the obvious choice at the time. > >electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel > >interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O > >cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I > >am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. > > So am I. I think I have one or two of them but that's all. If you have anything apart from the user-terminated one and the 085 floppy one, can you buzz out the connections and note down which links are fitted, please. I assume you have the 98032 user manual which explains the connections and links. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:25:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at May 4, 4 11:22:12 am Message-ID: > > > > On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been wondering > > for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 terminal???? I can't find > > it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not looking for a key combo that > > interrupts a specific host platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to > > generate a real electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? > > Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is not a > signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual signal current In a sense it is... On a current loop system you have 2 states. Current flowing in the loop (the idle sate), current not flowing in the loop. A break is sent by interrupting the loop (current not flowing) for a suitable period (200ms is common). On an RS232 device, the 2 states are voltages on the transmit data pin. A -ve voltage corresponds to the current-flowing state of the current loop, a +ve voltage corresponds to no current flowing in the current loop. The idle state is the -ve voltage, of course. A break consists of making the transmit data pin +ve for 200ms (or whatever). > port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in > RS232 - it must be some other code... or, is it? The VT220 Programmer It is not a code in the sense that 8 bits are sent with start and stop bits, etc. In fact the normal way to detect a break at the receiving end on a modern system is to look for a framing error detected by the UART chip -- this means the received character didn't have valid stop bits, which is the case for a true line break. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:30:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 Government Edition? In-Reply-To: <1083696131.2784.17.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> from "Tom Jennings" at May 4, 4 11:42:11 am Message-ID: > > On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 13:28, Joe R. wrote: > > One of the things that I got was a > > package of Lotus 123 version 2.01. It's marked as a Government Edition and > > has an eagle of the disk labels. Anybody know what this is all about? > > Almost certainly just different software licensing. It's very common. I ssem to rememebr some issue about the fact that 1-2-3 was copy-protected (you had to insert disk 1 when you wanted to run it, even if you'd installed it on the hard disk), and that some Governement departments wouldn't use copy-protected software (good for them!). Maybe the 'Government Edition' was a copyable version or something. -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue May 4 18:41:41 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <20040504184141.6149fdce.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 4 May 2004 18:29:56 -0400 RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > > > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > > > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: > > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > You were probably running 3.0! > > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) > > IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, > just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks > or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall > the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board > that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the > Enhanced functions... > > Bob Maxwell > - still running 3.1 on 486s at home - I have noticed 'myths' and folklore about hardware requirements to run Microsoft stuff for decades now. I, for example, run Office 2000 quite adequately on an old 486 laptop that only has 32 megs of RAM. Something most people consider impossible. I ran Windows for a long, long time on my 8088 based system. I remember upgrading to a 286 so I could have 4 megs of RAM, and even later upgrading to a 386 so I could run '386 enhanced mode.' Windows 3.11 certainly required at least a 286, I think maybe even a 386, as it abandoned standard mode (if I recall correctly). Not that this Microsoft arcana is really that interesting.... I hope it's not ever going to be considered as interesting as the DEC and CP/M and what-not lore that preceedes it. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 18:49:25 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> > > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) On Tue, 4 May 2004 RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, > just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks > or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall > the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board > that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the > Enhanced functions... Windoze 3.1 will refuse to install unless there is SOME memory above 1M. It therefore can not be installed on an 8088 machine. Preliminary tests in August 1991 on the Beta version confirmed that it in addition to refusing to install unless there was SOME memory above 1M, it would not run if that memory were removed. It WOULD work on an AT that had less than 640K of main memory, but had some extended (512K main, 128K extended) There is a possibility that it might work with as little as 16K of extended, but it REFUSES to install without SOMETHING up there. From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 18:50:56 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question (whatsa line BREAK) In-Reply-To: References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1083714656.1872.30.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> BREAK is simply a space condition asserted onto a (generally RS-232) serial line for >> one character period. The line rests at mark (1), the start bit is a space (0) then there's 5 - 9 data periods, then one or two stop bits, which are just the line going back to the mark state. This is of course ASYNCHRONOUS data, eg. the receiver thinks it knows how long a character must be, and it knows a stop character is a mark, so if it's a space, it could be a so-called LINE BREAK. (It seems obvious (but I have nothing to back this up) that the source of this is LINE BREAK == broken line eg. loop current goes to zero because a wire fell off. tty mark == current flow == 1. tty space == no current flow == 0.) A lot of UART chips detect BREAK, and the old ones like the Giant AY5013? (sheesh, did I actually recall that or is it crap?) has a pin for it (and for parity, Rxready, etc) so it would be easy to tie it to CPU RESET (shudder). The chip spec will tell you what "BREAK" means to the chip, but I would guess it's some counter like 10 or 16 bit times of consecutive spaces. BREAK is away to assert another information-carrying state on a line. I remember being mystified by this stuff, and other magic like autobaud, back when it was all new to me. Now it all seems so simple, but now it's no longer useful :-) From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue May 4 18:53:57 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040504185357.20598de8.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Fred Cisin wrote: > > > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) > On Tue, 4 May 2004 RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > > IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, > > just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks > > or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall > > the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board > > that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the > > Enhanced functions... > > Windoze 3.1 will refuse to install unless there is SOME memory above 1M. > It therefore can not be installed on an 8088 machine. > > Preliminary tests in August 1991 on the Beta version confirmed that it > in addition to refusing to install unless there was SOME memory above 1M, > it would not run if that memory were removed. > It WOULD work on an AT that had less than 640K of main memory, but had > some extended (512K main, 128K extended) There is a possibility that it > might work with as little as 16K of extended, but it REFUSES to install > without SOMETHING up there. > > > > > Now I may have to install Windows 3.1 on my Kaypro 8088 system to confirm or debunk my belief. And that's a pity as it right now has CP/M-86 installed on it. But I can always reinstall CP/M-86 anytime (a complete retail box copy of Digital Research branded CP/M-86 sits on my shelf, by the Windows 1.03, DOS 1.0 and WordStar 3.3 complete boxes). From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 18:56:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Morrow (was: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20040504122402.T45270@newshell.lmi.net> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> <20040504122402.T45270@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1083715014.2107.32.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 12:25, Fred Cisin wrote: > Does anybody have a copy of "Quotations of Chairman Morrow"? I wish! I never bought one, wehat a mistake. A nice mention of it here half way down: > http://www.ercb.com/feature/feature.0041.html From bill at timeguy.com Tue May 4 18:59:50 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer Message-ID: <20040504185451.L76262@outpost.timeguy.com> I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any information about it? The closest I came was http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 19:01:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040504184141.6149fdce.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> <20040504184141.6149fdce.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040504165053.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 4 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > I have noticed 'myths' and folklore about hardware requirements to run > Microsoft stuff for decades now. I, for example, run Office 2000 quite > adequately on an old 486 laptop that only has 32 megs of RAM. > Something most people consider impossible. I ran Windows for a long, > long time on my 8088 based system. Part of the problem is that MICROS~1 refused to differentiate, nor even understand, the difference between what was REQUIRED, v what was RECOMMENDED. For example, Windoze95 can and will work with a 386, but MICROS~1 denies it. (a 386SX is limited to 16M of RAM, which would probably be inadequate for Office) > Windows 3.11 certainly required at least a 286, I think maybe even a > 386, as it abandoned standard mode (if I recall correctly). Not that > this Microsoft arcana is really that interesting.... I hope it's not > ever going to be considered as interesting as the DEC and CP/M and > what-not lore that preceedes it. 3.10 also required a 286. Until a few years ago, I ran 3.10 on 286 machines and 3.00 on 8088s. 3.10 REFUSED to install on 8088, and REFUSED to install on 286 if there wasn't SOME RAM above 1M. I don't think that 3.11 needed a 386, but I don't know that for sure. For anybody running 3.10 or 3.11, go to the CALCULATOR and subtract 3.10 from 3.11 (to see how much difference they acknowledge?) BTW, it won't be on-topic for another 4 years, but,... Windoze98 refuses to install if there isn't a math coprocessor present! It has been speculated (and rejected) that that was in order to do floating point calculations for that silly animation when it copies a file. Bad news: in another year and change, Windoze95 will be on-topic! Would anybody want to buy a bunch of Windoze 3.10 BETA floppies? From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 19:04:28 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040504185357.20598de8.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> <20040504185357.20598de8.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040504170205.L69587@newshell.lmi.net> > > Windoze 3.1 will refuse to install unless there is SOME memory above 1M. > > It therefore can not be installed on an 8088 machine. On Tue, 4 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > Now I may have to install Windows 3.1 on my Kaypro 8088 system to > confirm or debunk my belief. > > And that's a pity as it right now has CP/M-86 installed on it. But I > can always reinstall CP/M-86 anytime (a complete retail box copy of > Digital Research branded CP/M-86 sits on my shelf, by the Windows 1.03, > DOS 1.0 and WordStar 3.3 complete boxes). That WOULD be a pity. Do you have an extra hard-drive, so that you can experiment without messing up a GOOD configuration? From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 19:11:40 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > > > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V > > > phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral > > > on the third one. > > > > That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, > > something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. > > There is no such thing as ground!. Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode inserted into the earth. :) > If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased > centre-tapped (as we're describing here) complelete isolated from > everything else (including ground), then you can ground any point of > it that you like -- including one of the phases or the centre-tap > point. Of course once you've picked a point to connect to ground, > then you can't ground any other point in the circuit as well. Exactly. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 19:13:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040504091607.0092e370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504201310.008a7850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:17 AM 5/5/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial > >[...] > >> I agree that it could have been better. The 9845s are very unreliable. >> I'm having to constantly reove, clean and reseat the cards in order to keep >> them working. > >They shouldn't be any worse than any other HP machine unless they've been >stored badly and the connectors have not been properly cleaned. They use >much the same edge conenctors as everything else. That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. > >> >All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, >> >it's just a cable you have to add. >> >> IIRC the main circuit board has a connector but IIRC you have to add the >> mating connector along with the cable. However I've been lucky and found a > >Yes. You get the pin header on the PCB (with a loopback test connector >normally). You have to remove that loopback conenctor and plug in the >cable. It's a standard 0.1" pitch header, so the mating connector is >trivial to find. > >> fair number of modules with the cables already installed. However I think > >None of mine came with cables, but that was soon cured :-) > >[The watch chip ans the microcontroller] > >> That's interesting. I hadn't looked that close at the workings of the >> time module and had no idea that it was built that way. I wonder why it >> included all of that? > >Prsumably they needed the functionallity of the microcontroller when the >machine was powered up for things like triggering external events, >responding to the inputs, etc. But the micorcontroller, ROM, etc took too >much power to be battery-backed so they had to add a lower-power clock >for when the machine was turend off. A watch chip, suitably repackaged >(it's in a 24 pin DIP IIRC) was the obvious choice at the time. > >> >electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel >> >interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O >> >cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I >> >am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. >> >> So am I. I think I have one or two of them but that's all. > >If you have anything apart from the user-terminated one and the 085 >floppy one, can you buzz out the connections and note down which links >are fitted, please. I assume you have the 98032 user manual which >explains the connections and links. I'll look and see what i have. IIRC I used to have one that was modified for a PT Punch. Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 19:18:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <20040504185451.L76262@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Wow! Cool find! I have one for the Z-80 CPU and I know where there's one for the 6800. I have an old ProLog catalog and I think it shows the one for the 4040 but I don't think it gives any details. I've never tried to use mine and I know that the guy with the one for 6800 hasn't been able to make his work. I've been looking for manuals for any of them but haven't found one. I saw the mention of the one on Jim's site and I've written to him several times but he's never replied. Joe At 06:59 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > >I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an >electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that >it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks >like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and >build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any >information about it? The closest I came was >http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the >very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue May 4 15:21:43 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503220216.N30850@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040505001823.IBWG20937.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But > > > recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: > > You were probably running 3.0! > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) > > 3.0 was the last one that could be run on 8088. > > 3.0 would work fine with CGA. 3.1 would work with CGA, but not right. > Ding! win 3.0 also can be run in MDA (hercules) mode. MUCH better resolution except only in two colors: black and amber, white or whatever. ihmo. By the way, IBM's EGA cards has less flicker than generic EGA cards I had. Cheers, Wizard From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 19:41:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available References: Message-ID: <016401c43239$b8147690$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Tony wrote... > Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll > fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same > type of CRT). The swap is not hard. That is exactly what I did, and why I have a vt102 without case, and an empty vt100 case :) Jay From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 4 22:26:24 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040504231638.0499a458@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Patrick Finnegan may have mentioned these words: >On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > There is no such thing as ground!. > >Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode >inserted into the earth. :) Hehehe... ;-) > > If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased > > centre-tapped (as we're describing here) complelete isolated from > > everything else (including ground), then you can ground any point of > > it that you like -- including one of the phases or the centre-tap > > point. Of course once you've picked a point to connect to ground, > > then you can't ground any other point in the circuit as well. > >Exactly. Along that vein: Sure you can! Can't say you'd like the results, but nothing's stopping you... ;-) [[ this from a guy who durned near burned down his home (and fried himself) this past Sunday, trying to hook up a new 30A drop to run my table saw (so I can hook up my 200A service) on *at least* a 70 year-old 60A blade-swich fusebox... while it's live. Dumbest design I've ever seen - they ran the neutral strip *inbetween* the 2 pre-fuse live poles of 220V 60Hz -- with only 1/2 inch (1.27cm) to spare on either side... and when the blade switch was open, you couldn't access the (now dead) hot lug terminals - the blade switch bar got in the way! Ugh! =:-P~ ]] Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 22:53:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at May 4, 4 07:11:40 pm Message-ID: > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode > inserted into the earth. :) And just what do I connect the other lead of my voltmeter to? :-) Incidentally, 'There is no such thing as groud' is one of Voanda's laws and has 2 meanings. The first is the one I am using there, that voltmeters have 2 leads, and it's arbitrary where you connect the 'refernce' lead to. The second is that any real connection has impedance, and that the 'ground' in a high-speed digital circuit may not be quite the same voltage everywhere. In fact 'ground bounce' -- mostly due to the inductance of the ground connection -- is a problem in laying out high speed circuitry. -tony From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Tue May 4 23:19:04 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) References: <200405050001.i4501Shf007124@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <003601c43258$19e363e0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> > That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are > nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. In 1979 I did a data-logging project at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in central Washington. We had 6 or 7 trailers that collected ground water measurement on HP 9825s (using the built in tape drive.) The measurement equipment was connected via HP-IB. The power was from a mobile generator. Every time the air conditioner started the line voltage would dip about 25 volts. This test ran for over a year with out a single failure. I was impressed. In the spring of 1980 the place was thick with grasshoppers. They would get into the equipment it you let them. After Mount St. Helens dumped a foot of ash on the place there wasn't a grasshopper to be found. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 23:28:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405050434.AAA22357@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...serial-line break condition...] > A break consists of making the transmit data pin +ve for 200ms (or > whatever). "Or whatever". I've used baud rates for which 200ms is less than one bit time (not often, and only for special purposes, but I've used 'em). Of course, I've not used them for purposes for which break conditions are very important. :) > In fact the normal way to detect a break at the receiving end on a > modern system is to look for a framing error detected by the UART > chip -- this means the received character didn't have valid stop > bits, which is the case for a true line break. A few (better) serial-interface chips detect and report a break condition as distinct from other framing errors. (Some of them consider "break" as a subclass of "framing error" - I mean that they allow the host to tell the difference between a break and a non-break framing error.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 23:50:41 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> Tony Duell declared on Tuesday 04 May 2004 10:53 pm: > > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long > > electrode inserted into the earth. :) > > And just what do I connect the other lead of my voltmeter to? :-) Ground. :) > Incidentally, 'There is no such thing as groud' is one of Voanda's > laws and has 2 meanings. The first is the one I am using there, that > voltmeters have 2 leads, and it's arbitrary where you connect the > 'refernce' lead to. I was speaking in an electrician's sense, not as in an engineer's sense of the word. > The second is that any real connection has impedance, and that the > 'ground' in a high-speed digital circuit may not be quite the same > voltage everywhere. In fact 'ground bounce' -- mostly due to the > inductance of the ground connection -- is a problem in laying out high > speed circuitry. That doesn't apply as much to AC power wiring, though you still have to watch for "ground loops" where there's a potential between two different grounding points due to resistance, which will be carried over signal cables. Still, that's not something the electrician usually cares about. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 01:17:58 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405050631.CAA23292@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > There is no such thing as ground!. Actually, there is: any sufficiently large object containing equal amounts of positive and negative charge will do. (The size matters because in most respects the object in question must be at least potentially able to accept a substantial amount of electric charge.) For the voltages and currents involved in this discussion, the only available object that even approximates that is the earth, but that doesn't invalidate the basic point. When working with very high voltages and low currents (which in my experience has been almost entirely gedanken), I have to keep reminding myself of that: there is potential current flow whenever there is a difference in overall charge, regardless of how that difference got there. For most electronic and electrical purposes, the capacitances involved are small enough compared to the voltages and currents involved that we can pretend that an isolated circuit is unreferenced to ground, but that's merely a handy approximation, not a Truth. Of course, this doesn't invalidate the point that given decent transformer insulation, you can ground any single point you please of a three-phase (whether delta or wye, actually - but grounding other than the central point of a wye would be Weird). My initial objection was based on unstated (and incorrect) assumptions.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 5 02:31:50 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Re: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin" (May 4, 19:11) References: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 4, 19:11, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode > inserted into the earth. :) Measured with respect to what? That wire dangling from your kite, Mr Franklin? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 02:34:34 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [I wrote] >> Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line >> protocol spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, >> the MM1103)? [John Honniball replied] > I have two Summagraphics manuals, for the "Bit Pad One" and the > "MM2101 and MM961 Data Tablets". They both list protocols, bit > rates, DIP-switch setting and so on. > Perhaps the Bit Pad One manual would be the one to look at? Maybe. But see below. [ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell), responding to the same message of mine] > The Sumagraphics Bit Pad 1 was a very common tablet at one time. > From waht I remember, and I do have the manual _somewhere_ (this > being a real manual which documents the data format and includes > schematics), there were 2 output formats. [...] Which you got was > set by a DIP switch inside. > Another switch turned on streaming mode [...]. I think that's the > mode you're asking for, Right. > I would guess you need to find the right DIP switches inside, which > are doubtless different to those on the Bit Pad 1 Quite likely. I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. The settings currently are thus, with bits numbered according to the markings on the switch banks and 1=on, 0=off: 12345678 <--bit numbers SW1 11110110 SW2 11000010 SW3 10110110 There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 03:04:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040505080454.GC8425@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 08:31:50AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 4, 19:11, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long > > electrode inserted into the earth. :) > > Measured with respect to what? That wire dangling from your kite, Mr > Franklin? :-) Well from here... a kite would be a better ground than a two-mile-thick ice cube! I just heard a story this week about an astronomer here that is a definite "head in the stars" type... some of his collegues asked him to run a ground wire around the lab (our stuff, in the next building over, is all grounded with 4"-wide copper ribbon). They came back from lunch, and all the cabinets were connected with heavy gauge copper wire, which went through a hole in the wall and stuck into the snow outside. Not so effective... AFAIK, our ground is more or less referenced to the floor of the power plant, and carried throughout the station in its infrastructure. I expect that for outlying buildings, like where my experiment lives, they have to run a ground wire out along with the 4160V feeder line. I hope it's big! :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 08:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82 F (-63.3 C) Windchill -154.8 F (-103.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.8 kts Grid 006 Barometer 675 mb (10816. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed May 5 03:04:12 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: ICL7660? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 May 2004 23:18:43 -0000." <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ethan Dicks said: > > My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so I'd > like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage > supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms > being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no > negative comms voltage. > http://www.maplin.co.uk/ part no. NM18U in the UK... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 07:03:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: ICL7660? In-Reply-To: <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20040505120331.GB2043@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 09:04:12AM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > Ethan Dicks said: > > My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so I'd > > like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage > > supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms > > being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no > > negative comms voltage. > > > > http://www.maplin.co.uk/ part no. NM18U in the UK... OK... thanks to one and all for tips... I will probably go with Digikey or the supplier in Christchurch (since if I order from them, it will arrive on one of the first flights in October). I do need the thru-hole variety for this 22-year-old board. The input voltage shouldn't matter - it's a +5V- only design anyway. I have no +12V or similar to feed it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 12:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.3 F (-62.9 C) Windchill -149.9 F (-101.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.5 kts Grid 021 Barometer 675.2 mb (10808. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed May 5 07:32:47 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: ICL7660? In-Reply-To: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405050532470590.7A66D5A6@192.168.42.129> Hi, Ethan, Mouser has these in abundance. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=239746&e_categoryid=272&e_pcodeid=57011 Happy hunting. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 04-May-04 at 23:18 Ethan Dicks wrote: >My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so >I'd >like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage >supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms >being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no >negative comms voltage. > >Thanks for any pointers, > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 23:10 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -160.3 F >(-106.9 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 19.3 kts Grid 013 Barometer 674.8 mb (10824. >ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 5 08:22:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <003601c43258$19e363e0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> References: <200405050001.i4501Shf007124@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> My favorite story is about the badly beat up 9825 that I found in a large metal dumpster full of water at Patrick AFB. It sat outside for at least six months before they auctioned off the entire load to a scrap metal dealer. I went over to his place a few days later and bought the 9825 for $3 for the plastic parts. It had been dropped and the case was split open. It had been hit with something that ripped half the keys off of it and it had been out in the weather and sitting partially submerged in water for at least six months. I poured the water out of it, brought it home and dried it out. I was just going to use if for mechanical parts but I decided to try it out just for kicks. Imagine my surprise when it worked! I've probably found 30 or more surplus 9825s over the years and I don't think I ever found one that didn't work. Joe At 09:19 PM 5/4/04 -0700, Michael Holley wrote: >> That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are >> nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. > >In 1979 I did a data-logging project at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in >central Washington. We had 6 or 7 trailers that collected ground water >measurement on HP 9825s (using the built in tape drive.) The measurement >equipment was connected via HP-IB. > >The power was from a mobile generator. Every time the air conditioner >started the line voltage would dip about 25 volts. > >This test ran for over a year with out a single failure. I was impressed. > >In the spring of 1980 the place was thick with grasshoppers. They would get >into the equipment it you let them. After Mount St. Helens dumped a foot of >ash on the place there wasn't a grasshopper to be found. > >Michael Holley >www.swtpc.com/mholley > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 5 09:08:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 07:34, der Mouse wrote: > I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three > banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. Yikes! That's a lot of combinations to run through! :-) I was in the same situation with the old Numonics tablet that I was given - no documentation anywhere and the standard mode it was configured for didn't make much sense and wouldn't work with any drivers. Luckily I only have 8 switches to run through though... I found something that happened to work with one of the later Numonics drivers. > There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've > bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and > three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is > handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no > idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various > things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. Well I suppose they run as a SBC, taking input from the pad and converting to the necessary protocol before spitting it down the serial line. > There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function > (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 reset, to allow an engineer to reset the pad without killing the power all the time? My Numonics tablet has a reset on the back - I'm not sure why the user would ever need to do a reset though. > and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? cheers Jules From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed May 5 09:15:08 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> I haven't really been following this thread from the start, and I don't know what model tablet you have, but Googling for "Summagraphics tablet switch settings" had a bunch of hits, of which this one looks promising: http://www.surpac.com/refman/default/config/f.htm Is that of any help? It lists the names and functions of 3 banks of 8 switches. --jc Jules Richardson wrote: >On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 07:34, der Mouse wrote: > > >>I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three >>banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. >> >> > >Yikes! That's a lot of combinations to run through! :-) > >I was in the same situation with the old Numonics tablet that I was >given - no documentation anywhere and the standard mode it was >configured for didn't make much sense and wouldn't work with any >drivers. Luckily I only have 8 switches to run through though... I found >something that happened to work with one of the later Numonics drivers. > > > >>There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've >>bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and >>three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is >>handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no >>idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various >>things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. >> >> > >Well I suppose they run as a SBC, taking input from the pad and >converting to the necessary protocol before spitting it down the serial >line. > > > >>There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function >>(inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 >> >> > >reset, to allow an engineer to reset the pad without killing the power >all the time? My Numonics tablet has a reset on the back - I'm not sure >why the user would ever need to do a reset though. > > > >> and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. >> >> > >My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? > >cheers > >Jules > > > From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed May 5 09:13:45 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Restoring a Macintosh Backup Message-ID: I have a tape that contains the backup of a Macintosh 8100. I have tried to use Retrospect to restore it but it doesn't recognize the tape as a valid format. I did a raw restore and the header does mention "Macintosh-BU1" and also "BackUp- 01.74" The tape was made in 1995. Anyone know what program I can use on my Mac to restore this tape? -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From charlesb at otcgaming.net Wed May 5 09:52:05 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005001c432b0$89eb0410$0100a8c0@thunder> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stevens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:09 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: compaq's portable computer > On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:01 -0500 (CDT) > Dave Dunfield wrote: > > I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. yea.. I have got apotrable 1 (the big suitcase one with mini monnitor etc) and also a portable 3 (somewhere). The Portable III is inded a small lunchbox sized beast with an orange plasma screeen and 5.25 drive on the one side. by default they didnt have any expansion slots, however u could buy a box thaat clipped onto the back to give you an 8 bit isa slot. it's an 8088, 640k ram (max 1 meg istr), not sure about base configs, but i know u could get a 286 upgrade but w/o the co-pro. Charles "Thunder" Blackburn The Team Sportscast Network http://www.tsncentral.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 5 10:34:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should take a look at this Joe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 5 11:38:18 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin References: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040505080454.GC8425@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <4099187A.6090807@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > AFAIK, our ground is more or less referenced to the floor of the power plant, > and carried throughout the station in its infrastructure. I expect that for > outlying buildings, like where my experiment lives, they have to run a ground > wire out along with the 4160V feeder line. I hope it's big! :-) Now are we talking ground here or the power for your 'hobby'? Good luck with finding ground, electrical or real earth. :) > -ethan Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 5 12:10:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: The Network Eye for MS DOS network? Message-ID: There used to be a program called The Network Eye which let you remotely control one computer from another over a LANtastic network. Does such a program exist for MS-DOS over TCP/IP? Preferably, the client would be Windows based. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bert at brothom.nl Wed May 5 13:27:58 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: The Network Eye for MS DOS network? References: Message-ID: <4099322E.B43D6CD2@brothom.nl> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > There used to be a program called The Network Eye which let you remotely > control one computer from another over a LANtastic network. > > Does such a program exist for MS-DOS over TCP/IP? Preferably, the client > would be Windows based. > I believe NetOp can do that. And yes, there is a Windows "guest". Checkout www.netop.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 13:00:30 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> ["J.C. Wren" ] > [...] I don't know what model tablet you have, I have an MM1103. > but Googling for "Summagraphics tablet switch settings" had a bunch > of hits, of which this one looks promising: > http://www.surpac.com/refman/default/config/f.htm > Is that of any help? It lists the names and functions of 3 banks of > 8 switches. ...for five different tablets, none of which are Summagraphics. The only place lynx finds the Summagraphics name in that page is the emulation setting for ACECAD tablets. Good thought, though, and thanks for checking. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 13:10:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200405051813.OAA25695@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, >> three banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. > Yikes! That's a lot of combinations to run through! :-) Well, yes. :-) The pc board is only two-layer, though, just front and back. I may try to trace where the switches connect to to see which ones are plausible guesses for what I want. >> There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function >> (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 > reset, to allow an engineer to reset the pad without killing the > power all the time? That would be my guess; it is placed right next to the chip I suspect of being the CPU. >> and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. > My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? It could be, but the puck is connected with an RJ-11-style plug and jack, which jack could equally well be used for a stylus if the interface is sufficiently compatible. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Wed May 5 14:08:20 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> Look at http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/Summafiles/Bit%20Pad%202%20Tech%20Ref.pdf on their website www.gtcocalcomp.com I also found new drivers for my MM1201 This should be the right docu (DIP switches are on the last two pages 60,61) ;-) Gerold der Mouse schrieb: > ["J.C. Wren" ] > >>[...] I don't know what model tablet you have, > > > I have an MM1103. > > >>but Googling for "Summagraphics tablet switch settings" had a bunch >>of hits, of which this one looks promising: > > >>http://www.surpac.com/refman/default/config/f.htm > > >>Is that of any help? It lists the names and functions of 3 banks of >>8 switches. > > > ...for five different tablets, none of which are Summagraphics. The > only place lynx finds the Summagraphics name in that page is the > emulation setting for ACECAD tablets. > > Good thought, though, and thanks for checking. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > -- Gerold Pauler Tel.: +49 30 75 70 42 78 Katharinenstr. 7 Mobil: +49 173 23 49 440 10711 Berlin eMail: gerold.pauler@gmx.net From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:06:39 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and keeping them running? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should > take a look at this > > > Joe From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:16:48 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to examine and clean it safely. >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and >keeping them running? In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack which has special "data" written at special locations. That together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam which is used at various locations in the drive, including in the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution for this problem yet... --tom >Ashley > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should > > take a look at this > > > > > > Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed May 5 14:16:51 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16537.15779.279473.223472@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? Ashley> I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 Ashley> drives. Does anyone here have experience maintaining / Ashley> aligning RK05 drives and keeping them running? It looks vaguely familiar. I'm not sure anymore if I've seen this in use. I *have* seen someone clean an IBM 1311 pack, which is somewhat lower density but reasonably similar. RK05 and friends have head clearance such that, if you use high quality materials, you can get away with using pads and solvent for cleaning a pack. Don't if you don't have to, but if you have to, it should work. Alignment is done with a pack that has a special pattern written on it with a high-accuracy writer. I think it's somewhat like a servo pattern as you'd find it on newer drives (RK05 doesn't have that kind of servo). You use an oscilloscope to see if the signal on the read head is what it's supposed to be, or if not, you tweak the head position accordingly. The manuals describe all this nicely if you can find them (try bitsavers.org). I haven't personally done it but I've seen it often enough. paul From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:22:31 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > examine and clean it safely. > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > >keeping them running? > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > for this problem yet... > > --tom > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > Joe > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:31:05 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. --tom >Ashley > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > > >keeping them running? > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > for this problem yet... > > > > --tom > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Joe R." > > >To: > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems >should > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:32:21 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001f01c432d7$b028d540$a0340f14@mcothran1> What kind of system do you use it in? -- A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > --tom > > > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > >should > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:33:48 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <002801c432d7$e4170d90$a0340f14@mcothran1> Another question.... I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the chances that it can still be read? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > --tom > > > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > >should > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:39:14 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001f01c432d7$b028d540$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143531.034c5228@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:32 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >What kind of system do you use it in? I have a number of systems (11/70, 11/45, 11/35, 11/34, 11/10, etc.), all of which it can be plugged into, and I have a couple of RK11-D controllers. It is currently connected to the 11/45, but the CPU failed a while back and I haven't had time to repair it yet. --tom >-- A > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives >and > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > >To: > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > > >should > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:42:34 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <002801c432d7$e4170d90$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Another question.... > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the >chances that it can still be read? I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... --tom >Ashley > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives >and > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > >To: > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > > >should > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:46:24 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I've just carried it around with me whenever I've moved (about 10 times) and it usually has just sat quietly on a shelf. A friend of mine had it for a year or so, but I had to rescue it when he was talking about turning it into a wall clock. It has many programs that my friends and I wrote during our college days. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >Another question.... > > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > >chances that it can still be read? > > I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the > chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... > > --tom > > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >Posts" > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives > >and > > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > > >To: > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > > > >should > > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed May 5 14:47:02 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: Once upon a time I had a program for the Mac, older program (System 7 era) that allowed you to "tunnel" your keyboard and mouse to another mac. The way it worked was, you would move the mouse to the top corner of the screen, above the Apple menu, and "push" thru to another screen. It would then move your keyboard and mouse control to another Mac. Basically, it worked as a software KV switch (no M as it required you to have a monitor on the other Mac). I've been unsuccessful in turning up a copy of this program in my archives. Partly hampered by not remembering what it was called. Does anyone remember what this software was, and do they have a copy they can send me? -chris From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 5 14:44:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 2004, Tom Uban wrote: >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? I got 4 of them in January... they look very clean, and seem to be in good condition, but we'll see once we open them up. The foam is probably gone, so that would have to be replaced. --f From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:54:50 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505145431.036a5920@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:46 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I've just carried it around with me whenever I've moved (about 10 times) >and it usually has just sat quietly on a shelf. A friend of mine had it for >a year or >so, but I had to rescue it when he was talking about turning it into a wall >clock. >It has many programs that my friends and I wrote during our college days. What OS were they written under? --tom >Ashley > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:42 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >Another question.... > > > > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > > >chances that it can still be read? > > > > I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the > > chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > >Posts" > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 >drives > > >and > > > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive >systems > > > > >should > > > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:54:44 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: Message-ID: <001301c432da$d09bd770$a0340f14@mcothran1> I am getting at least one, probably two in the next few weeks. Perhaps we can have a communal "revive the RK05 drives" exercise here. I'm not sure what kind of condition these drives are in, but they look fairly clean in the pictures. - A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > On Wed, 5 May 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > I got 4 of them in January... they look very clean, and seem to be > in good condition, but we'll see once we open them up. The foam is > probably gone, so that would have to be replaced. > > --f > From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 5 14:54:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <16535.43230.576000.770768@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: Paul wrote: > No, that doesn't look at all like an 11/60. Those have a narrow > console with pushbuttons, not the classic lights and switches style as > shown in the CP-1160 photo. Someone said it's an 11/35, and that > seems about right. I didnt look at the picture, sorry. My 11/34's are having a Tek label of CP1120, which doesnt make sense either :) --f From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 15:03:30 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505145431.036a5920@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <002401c432dc$0a482270$a0340f14@mcothran1> Basic Plus on RSTS/E, either V6B or V6C, on a PDP 11/40. - Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:46 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >I've just carried it around with me whenever I've moved (about 10 times) > >and it usually has just sat quietly on a shelf. A friend of mine had it for > >a year or > >so, but I had to rescue it when he was talking about turning it into a wall > >clock. > >It has many programs that my friends and I wrote during our college days. > > What OS were they written under? > > --tom > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:42 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > >Another question.... > > > > > > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > > > >chances that it can still be read? > > > > > > I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the > > > chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >Posts" > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > > > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > > > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > > >Posts" > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 > >drives > > > >and > > > > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive > >systems > > > > > >should > > > > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 5 16:32:41 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner" (May 5, 14:31) References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10405052232.ZM3349@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 5, 14:31, Tom Uban wrote: > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. I had two on an 11/40 that hadn't been used in between 10 and 15 years. They needed the dust and disintegrated foam vacuumed out, the NiCads replaced, some replacement foam (some was draught sealing strip from the hardware shop, some was foam sheet from an upholsery shop) and a bit of TLC (soapy water and elbow grease for the casing, reseating the boards, etc) but they worked fine. The packs also were fine; some had been kept in ziploc covers, some not. The drives are now on an 11/34 which will probably end up running RSTS (the 11/40 used to run RT-11). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 16:41:25 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040505214125.GB18799@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 03:33:PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > > >chances that it can still be read? Heh... I have one of those too, but it's an RK05F-16. After years of looking, I recently aquired an RK8E interface, but I have no RK05F drives, just several RK05Js in various states of foam decomposition (one was used recently by me and by Jerome Fine, but most of the others haven't been spun up in a number of years). Earlier, Tom writes: > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. I have done RK05 alignment with ordinary data packs, but I wouldn't guarantee that the drive would then pass the "pack interchange diagnostic" where you take two (or more) drives, write on one, then move the pack to the other to read. The drives I aligned (for my employer, not my own), worked fine with everything we had in the shop, but I was never confident that they were aligned as well as they would have been if I'd had an alignment pack. > > > > > > A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > > for this problem yet... If you ever come up with a solution, I'd love to hear about it. Fortunately, I still have a few new-in-bag absolute filters (for both RK05 and RL01/RL02), but those are a scarce resource as well. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 21:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.3 F (-62.9 C) Windchill -130.8 F (-90.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 043 Barometer 675.3 mb (10804. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 16:53:04 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040505215304.GC18799@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 03:22:31PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Several, though as I mentioned earlier, only one has been used in the past couple of years. I have an as-yet-unused-by-me RK8E and one RK05J-16 pack, and a couple of RK11s (one RKV11D, a couple of RK11Ds, and an RK11C) each with at least one drive and stacks of RK05J-12s, mostly with copies of RT-11 and ancient university data sets on them. > Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? More or less - new foam, new filter, new NiCd batteries, and a through cleaning. I did get to process two *pallets* of drives for a former employer (c. 1988) and recover as many working drives from the pile as possible. I think my boss told me that four drives would be considered good work, and I gave him six. Besides head crashes (these were as-is drives), the most common actual failure mode was burned-out lightbulbs in the optical positioner feedback circuit. It was easy enough to check them... open up the service panels and see if there's a light on the glass scale by the heads... no light == bad. They were some bizarre bulb assembly that we didn't bother trying to find replacements for - we just robbed them from drives that were in worse shape (dents, smashed doors, etc). If you only have one "dead" drive, I'm not sure how you'd get replacement parts, but my experience is that unless you know the drive has had something catastrophic happen to it, it probably only needs a severe cleaning and a PM on the batteries, foam, etc. That having been said, though, I wouldn't mount a critical pack first. Always mount a scratch monkey! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 21:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -122 F (-85.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 050 Barometer 675.4 mb (10800. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tomj at wps.com Wed May 5 17:23:50 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083795830.1980.70.camel@dhcp-250068.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 15:54, Tony Duell wrote: > If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased centre-tapped > ... then you can ground any point of it that you like --... Of course once you've > picked a point to connect to ground, then you can't ground any other point > in the circuit as well. I disagree. I've seen it done. It may not be very useful, but it can be done. Never underestimate the power of stupidity! From tomj at wps.com Wed May 5 17:39:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1083796787.2685.78.camel@dhcp-250068.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 21:50, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > That doesn't apply as much to AC power wiring, though you still have to > watch for "ground loops" where there's a potential between two different > grounding points due to resistance, which will be carried over signal > cables. Still, that's not something the electrician usually cares > about. Apocryphal tales to terrorize know-nothings: To someone you see coil up a long extention cord and plug the ends together for convenient storage: "STOP! Don't do that! The electricity will build up in the loop and later shock you when you unplug it!", proceed to show them how to discharge (sic) the cord by wailing the coiled cord on the ground a dozen times. Point out (non-existent) stains on the floor under electrical outlets, and the real reason behind those "baby-proofing" snap-in plastic plugs that push into unused outlets -- they keep the electricity from leaking out and staining the floor. Point out that ordinary electrical tape over the unused holes will do in a pinch. Then there's always the "AC battery" which you send neophytes out to look for, but that tale is older than my now-deceased grandfather, though I suppose it happened at least once. (Wait, we had all those power cube arguments...) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:30:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at May 4, 4 11:50:41 pm Message-ID: > > Incidentally, 'There is no such thing as groud' is one of Voanda's > > laws and has 2 meanings. The first is the one I am using there, that > > voltmeters have 2 leads, and it's arbitrary where you connect the > > 'refernce' lead to. > > I was speaking in an electrician's sense, not as in an engineer's sense > of the word. What's the difference? Even when working on power-distribution systems, voltmeters have 2 leads. And the output of a transformer is isolated from ground, so you can connect any single point in the circuit to the ground rod, and call it your reference point. Sure it's conventional to use the start point of a star (Y) 3-phase supply or the centre-tap of a centre-tapped supply, or whatever, but you're not required to do so. You may have guessed I have little time for 'electricians' who follow the rules blindly and have no real clue as to what they're doing or why. Actaully, I have little time for anyone who follows the rules blindly without a clue as to why! > > > The second is that any real connection has impedance, and that the > > 'ground' in a high-speed digital circuit may not be quite the same > > voltage everywhere. In fact 'ground bounce' -- mostly due to the > > inductance of the ground connection -- is a problem in laying out high > > speed circuitry. > > That doesn't apply as much to AC power wiring, though you still have to Ere, watch out. RF interferece can, and does, pass through common earth wires in some cases. The impedance to ground can be signfiicant. And it certainly matters on the classic computers we all know and love! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:34:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 5, 4 03:34:34 am Message-ID: > > I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three > banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. The settings currently are Eeek! > thus, with bits numbered according to the markings on the switch banks > and 1=on, 0=off: > > 12345678 <--bit numbers > SW1 11110110 > SW2 11000010 > SW3 10110110 > > There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've > bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and > three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is > handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no > idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various > things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. Possibly. The Bit Pad 1 used an 8035. And, IIRC a 2708 EPROM. It was certainly a 3-rail thing, since one the problems with one of my BP1s was that the PSU stopped giving the -5V output, the EPROM couldn't be read, and the microcontroler did nothing useful... > > There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function > (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 and a six-contact The BP1 has a reset button, but that's accessible without dismantling the thing. > card-edge connector of equally obscure function. No idea. PSU input? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:39:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 5, 4 09:22:03 am Message-ID: > try it out just for kicks. Imagine my surprise when it worked! I've > probably found 30 or more surplus 9825s over the years and I don't think I > ever found one that didn't work. The 9825 (and for that matter the 9815 which has much the same design of PSU) does have one problem, though. The 5V PSU is a switching regulator, and there's no corwbar fitted (no idea why not, the older 9810 and 9830 have crowbars on all the important PSU outputs, so HP certainly knew about such things). If the chopper transistor shorts, then 5V line will leap to about 25V. Needless to say this wipes out the entire set of ICs... The 9845, with a mains-input SMPSU (not the low-voltage non-isolated switching regulator of the 9815 and 9825) doesn't suffer from this. I must design a crowbar and add it to my machines sometime. Hopefully before the transistor fails. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:46:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at May 5, 4 02:08:29 pm Message-ID: > Well I suppose they run as a SBC, taking input from the pad and > converting to the necessary protocol before spitting it down the serial > line. The 'pad' has no intellegence of its own, and does nothing without the microcontroller. Basically, the microcontroller triggers a thyristor (SCR) on the tablet driver PCB (actually iside the tablet, at one corner) which discharges a capacitor through a 1-turn coil around one side of the tablet. This causes a magnetic pulse to propagage down metal wires across the tablet. IIRC, it sets up magnetostrictive strains in the wires, and thus propagates essentially at the speed of sound. The pulse is detected by a coil in the pen/puck, and fed back to the control electronics. The microcontroller, aided by some external counters, measures the time delay, and thus works out where the pen/puck is on the tablet. The process is then repeated for the other axis of the tablet using a coil and wires at right angles to the first one. If you want to know how I discovered all this, well, years ago I obtained an Apple Graphics Tablet. This is a Summagraphics tablet without the electronics, but with the counters, etc, on an Apple ][ plug-in card. Not having an Apple ][ at the time, I made an interface, loosely based on the Apple ][ card (the schemaitc is in the manual) to plug into my CoCo. After sorting out noise problems due to common ground leads (to tie into another thread!), I got it working fairly well.. I have the Bit Pad 1 on my PERQ, and a somewhat older one, based on the same principles, on the I2S systems. I have all the manuals and schematics, and they all work in much the same way. > > My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? On the BP1, the pen and puck plug into the same 7 pin DIN connector (allowing for 4 buttons on the puck). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:49:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405051813.OAA25695@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 5, 4 02:10:56 pm Message-ID: > The pc board is only two-layer, though, just front and back. I may try > to trace where the switches connect to to see which ones are plausible > guesses for what I want. If it's anything like the BP1, those switches are read in firmware by the microcontroller. Unless you fancy disassembling the firmware, you'll not make any sense of them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:54:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at May 5, 4 03:06:39 pm Message-ID: > Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > keeping them running? I have a couple of RK05s on my 11/45 system. I've done an alignemt after a head replacement on a friend's machine. It's not hard. You load the alignment pack (after ensuring the heads fly correctly on a scratch (but not scratched :-)) disk), connect a 'scope to the testpoints on the read ampifier and trigger the 'scope from the index signal. You then step the head to the right track (just dump the right values in the RK11's registers) -- the track contains a special offset alignment pattern. You then look at the display on the 'scope. When the heads are on-track, the 2 halves of the pattern are read with equal amplitude. So you tweak the head adjusting screws until that's the case. I acutally found doing the RK05 alignment to be easier than aligning a 3.5" floppy drive. I once had an RK05 drive catch fire (!). The insulation on the blower motor widings broke down, and smoke, and even small flames, came out of the motor. I manages to hit the load switch (retracting the heads) and shut the machine down before any real damage was done. A friend gave me a similar blower with bad bearings, and using the stator from that and the bearings/rootor from my original one, I got it going again. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:57:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at May 5, 4 03:22:31 pm Message-ID: > > Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Yes. Well, actually I have 2 of them, and an RK05F > Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Yes, again. Done head replacements, rebuilt the blower fan, fixed logic problems, and even once undid a field-circuit bodge where they twisted together the ends of a broken wire in the interlock circuit (ensures the heads only load when a pack is in place) without soldering. This would open under vibration (say during extensive disk activity), and then the logic would retract the heads as a safety precaution. Took a long time to find that one, seconds to cure it! -tony From cswiger at widomaker.com Wed May 5 19:27:48 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Univac Operators Manual & more Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20040505202420.025fc488@wilma.widomaker.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4128075425 Looks like some stuff from the C&O Railroad - other Univac material in the sellers list --Chuck From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 5 19:48:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I'd venture a guess of this as the originating machine from the headers: > > > >Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) > > by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > >i44Du683015611 for > > ; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) > > > >Anything there look recognizable? > > > >David > > It looks like the following (from the message in December), except > for the SMTP id, AND the SMTP server itself. Very weird. > > Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) > by ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > hBBHi278009495 > for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:44:03 -0500 (EST) It's probably the dude who stole the Altair messing with Joe just to rub it in some more. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Wed May 5 20:29:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Univac Operators Manual & more Message-ID: <200405060129.i461Ttux015584@spies.com> Thanks. I'll return the favor some day. From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed May 5 20:42:00 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DTC MicroFile Message-ID: <40993578.29341.4434914@localhost> Hi, Does anyone have any recollections or information about the DTC MicroFile? Data Terminals and Communications made it. It's a piece of furniture on wheels, contains a box with a dual 8" floppy drive and appears to be designed to sit in between a terminal and a daisywheel printer -- a primitive word processor? Haven't had a chance to crack the box open yet, and am curious if anyone has any concrete information. Cheers Brian From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 5 23:34:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever > registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) I'm surprised one of those fucking annoying spam sites didn't grab it so they can put up some lame search engine. It seems that's what happens whenever you let a domain name expire. I've been trying to get vcf.org for a few years now but the ultra-losers who own it keep renewing and won't even respond to inquiries. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 6 00:29:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405060531.BAA08840@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I may try to trace where the switches connect to to see which ones >> are plausible guesses for what I want. > If it's anything like the BP1, those switches are read in firmware by > the microcontroller. Unless you fancy disassembling the firmware, > you'll not make any sense of them. I could pull the PROM and try disassembling it. But I'm not sure it's that bad; based on what the switch banks are in physical proximity to, I suspect at least one of them controls electronics directly rather than simply being read by the CPU. Well, only one way to find out...now where's that screwdriver...(actually, it's more like, where's the tuit stack gone). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 6 00:32:18 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405060536.BAA08866@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Basically, the microcontroller triggers a thyristor (SCR) on the > tablet driver PCB (actually iside the tablet, at one corner) which > discharges a capacitor through a 1-turn coil around one side of the > tablet. This causes a magnetic pulse to propagage down metal wires > across the tablet. IIRC, it sets up magnetostrictive strains in the > wires, and thus propagates essentially at the speed of sound. I'm not sure how accurate this is for the pad I have. The pad is a two-layer PCB, with the working area covered by a grid of printed-circuit "wires", in one direction on one side of the PCB and the other direction on the other side. They are surprisingly far apart, on the order of ?". I haven't traced the circuitry enough to know how accurate your description is, though I didn't see anything like the one-turn coil you describe - everything electrical, besides the serial connector, power, and the puck, is on the PCB. Two parallel etch runs could form a one-turn coil; I don't recall seeing them, but I also wasn't looking for them. Perhaps when I open it up to investigate the DIP switch banks I'll be able to tell. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gohai at gmx.net Thu May 6 07:04:52 2004 From: gohai at gmx.net (Gottfried Haider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Hello, I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and expensive) than the IMSAI? thanks! Gottfried Haider PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu May 6 07:04:02 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083845041.5961.3.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 00:34, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever > > registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) > > I'm surprised one of those fucking annoying spam sites didn't grab it so > they can put up some lame search engine. It seems that's what happens > whenever you let a domain name expire. I've been trying to get vcf.org > for a few years now but the ultra-losers who own it keep renewing and > won't even respond to inquiries. It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. None of them seem to do it, though. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 6 07:32:42 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel In-Reply-To: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> References: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Message-ID: <20040506123242.GA19184@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 02:04:52PM +0200, Gottfried Haider wrote: > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there > classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and > expensive) than the IMSAI? Real PDP-8s are expensive, but a modern replica, the SBC-6120 can be made with a front panel - it's completely PDP-8 compatible. http://sparetimegizmos.com/ I warn you, though, even a modern replica isn't cheap... I have spent several hundred dollars getting mine built it, and I did all the soldering myself. Still cheaper (and lighter) that the real thing -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 06-May-2004 12:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.3 F (-65.2 C) Windchill -149.9 F (-101.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.9 kts Grid 053 Barometer 671.5 mb (10949. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 6 07:52:29 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <200405061252.i46CqThc018519@huey.classiccmp.org> At 14:04 06/05/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards >about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown >away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) > >Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable >front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there >classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and >expensive) than the IMSAI? > >thanks! >Gottfried Haider >PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. It ain't exactly "inexpensive", but they are producing a series-2 IMSAI: http://www.imsai.net/products/imsai_series_two.htm Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From melamy at earthlink.net Thu May 6 08:15:44 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <28736922.1083849345546.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> you can buy a IMSAI II new at www.imsai.net which is a second generation copy of the original IMSAI. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: Gottfried Haider Sent: May 6, 2004 8:04 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Hello, I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and expensive) than the IMSAI? thanks! Gottfried Haider PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu May 6 08:16:29 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040506081629.0c17b60e.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 5 May 2004 15:47:02 -0400 chris wrote: > Once upon a time I had a program for the Mac, older program (System 7 > era) that allowed you to "tunnel" your keyboard and mouse to another mac. > > The way it worked was, you would move the mouse to the top corner of the > screen, above the Apple menu, and "push" thru to another screen. It would > then move your keyboard and mouse control to another Mac. Basically, it > worked as a software KV switch (no M as it required you to have a monitor > on the other Mac). > > I've been unsuccessful in turning up a copy of this program in my > archives. Partly hampered by not remembering what it was called. > > Does anyone remember what this software was, and do they have a copy they > can send me? > I think we experimented with something like that years back. What we had was called Timbucktu (spelling?) From lcourtney at mvista.com Thu May 6 08:50:04 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel In-Reply-To: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Message-ID: G, > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? If you're not wedded to real hardware lots of emulators around, many with more impressive and luminiferous than the Altair. To wit: "Rob Storey" wrote in message news:<4098E362.86576267@optushome.com.au>... > Hi All, > > Work on my emulator program for the IBM 7094 has progressed to a point > where it should be of interest/entertainment for others. While still > incomplete, and far from being capable of running the IBSYS operating > system, it is still fun to watch as it runs the diagnostic programs. > snipped > > It's available at:- > http://members.optushome.com.au/intaemul/Emul7094.htm > > Cheers, > Rob Storey Also see http://simh.trailing-edge.com/. Cheers, Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gottfried Haider > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 5:05 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: looking for a computer with front panel > > > Hello, > > I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards > about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown > away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) > > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there > classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and > expensive) than the IMSAI? > > thanks! > Gottfried Haider > PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. > From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 09:08:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >I think we experimented with something like that years back. What we had >was called Timbucktu (spelling?) I probably should have mentioned in my original post that I am attempting to replace Timbuktu. Timbuktu does a fine job, EXCEPT that I find there to be enough of a lag that it gets on my nerves when I use it thru the day. The software I'm looking for was the software equivelent of a KVM switch, without the V. There was no lag, because all that was being done was sending the keyboard and mouse commands to the remote machine. You still viewed the remote machine on its own monitor. -chris From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu May 6 09:17:57 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel In-Reply-To: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> References: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Message-ID: <1083853077.5961.8.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 08:04, Gottfried Haider wrote: > > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there > classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and > expensive) than the IMSAI? > > thanks! > Gottfried Haider > PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. you could just buy one from Imsai - http://www.imsai.net/ From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 6 10:15:35 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It sounds like you've pretty much done it all. I hope mine doesn't catch fire! I'll likely be asking for some advice in the not too distant future. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:58 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Yes. Well, actually I have 2 of them, and an RK05F > Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Yes, again. Done head replacements, rebuilt the blower fan, fixed logic problems, and even once undid a field-circuit bodge where they twisted together the ends of a broken wire in the interlock circuit (ensures the heads only load when a pack is in place) without soldering. This would open under vibration (say during extensive disk activity), and then the logic would retract the heads as a safety precaution. Took a long time to find that one, seconds to cure it! -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 6 11:17:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <1083845041.5961.3.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <409A6531.8010201@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher McNabb wrote: > It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for > commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. > None of them seem to do it, though. Don't forget .spam and .porn Ben. From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 6 11:56:16 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <409A6531.8010201@jetnet.ab.ca> from ben franchuk at "May 6, 4 10:17:53 am" Message-ID: <200405061656.JAA12532@floodgap.com> > > It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for > > commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. > > None of them seem to do it, though. > > Don't forget .spam and .porn Myself, I'm holding out for .sucky and .kewl. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. ---------------------------------- From bert at brothom.nl Thu May 6 13:19:01 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <1083845041.5961.3.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> <409A6531.8010201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <409A8195.2F7013E8@brothom.nl> ben franchuk wrote: > > Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for > > commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. > > None of them seem to do it, though. > > Don't forget .spam and .porn > Ben. I did not read it myself, but check out RFC3675: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3675.html That should explain why that's not done. Bert From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 6 12:53:04 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405061754.NAA11518@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > The software I'm looking for was the software equivelent of a KVM > switch, without the V. There was no lag, because all that was being > done was sending the keyboard and mouse commands to the remote > machine. That doesn't mean there's no lag (you say "because"). Try it over a satellite link, or a slow dialup, sometime. > You still viewed the remote machine on its own monitor. Of course, this does mean that the two machines in question are almost certain to be connected by a low-latency high-enough-bandwidth link.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 14:05:21 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >That doesn't mean there's no lag (you say "because"). Try it over a >satellite link, or a slow dialup, sometime. Oh very very true, over a slow connection. I know I used it in the past over a localtalk network, and it worked without lag. Simply because there wasn't enough data being pushed to be an issue. I'm sure over a slower connection that wouldn't hold true. However, because this software does NOT push the screen image of the remote machine back to the primary Mac... you really wouldn't use it over anything other than a LAN. You need to be able to see the monitor physically connected to the remote Mac to use it. All this does is allows you to bypass using a different keyboard and mouse. >Of course, this does mean that the two machines in question are almost >certain to be connected by a low-latency high-enough-bandwidth link.... Exactly. Since the machine is unlikely to be more than a few feet away, you can use Localtalk at the very least, which in my past use, was sufficient bandwidth (I ran it on a 25 MHz 68040 over localtalk connecting to a 100 MHz PPC 603 laptop... now I want to use it on a 400 MHz G3 connecting to a 250 MHz PPC 603e over 10Mbs ethernet... so I'd assume there will be no lag as well... there is only minor lag in Timbuktu which does FAR FAR more) -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu May 6 15:26:43 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software References: Message-ID: <001001c433a8$726a2de0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Mac keyboard tunnel software > >That doesn't mean there's no lag (you say "because"). Try it over a > >satellite link, or a slow dialup, sometime. > > Oh very very true, over a slow connection. > > I know I used it in the past over a localtalk network, and it worked > without lag. Simply because there wasn't enough data being pushed to be > an issue. I'm sure over a slower connection that wouldn't hold true. > > However, because this software does NOT push the screen image of the > remote machine back to the primary Mac... you really wouldn't use it over > anything other than a LAN. You need to be able to see the monitor > physically connected to the remote Mac to use it. All this does is allows > you to bypass using a different keyboard and mouse. > > >Of course, this does mean that the two machines in question are almost > >certain to be connected by a low-latency high-enough-bandwidth link.... > > Exactly. Since the machine is unlikely to be more than a few feet away, > you can use Localtalk at the very least, which in my past use, was > sufficient bandwidth (I ran it on a 25 MHz 68040 over localtalk > connecting to a 100 MHz PPC 603 laptop... now I want to use it on a 400 > MHz G3 connecting to a 250 MHz PPC 603e over 10Mbs ethernet... so I'd > assume there will be no lag as well... there is only minor lag in > Timbuktu which does FAR FAR more) > > -chris > > Is there any reason an ADB KVM can't be used in this setting? I have used Timbuktu before and there is a little lag on a 100Mbs network (using 1024x768 resolution on the machine being controlled). I ended up getting a Dr.Bott KVM for my ADB Macs and it works perfectly (4 machines). Do you think Timbuktu would lag on a GB ethernet setup? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 6 15:40:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... Message-ID: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> I know very little about these machines, but one just turned up on the doorstep for the museum. Power supply checks out, I get a white display (so something useful looks to be happening in the video circuitry), but I get no spin-up from the hard disk (A Seagate ST-157 SCSI drive) and a steady floppy drive light. I'm not sure if the hard disk is fixable yet - no idea if it's a head crash or whatever. There seems to be little about these drives on the web, but I did see one comment that they were famous for stiction - in which case maybe I can give it a hand in spinning up... Does anyone have install media if it comes to that though? I can always drop a different SCSI drive in it (I think I have a spare 160MB drive somewhere), but I don't have any floppies for this machine and I gather they never were particularly common, sitting somewhere between the ST and the Falcon... cheers Jules From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 15:42:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >Is there any reason an ADB KVM can't be used in this setting? Only because I toggle between the two often. I think flipping a switch back and forth will get annoying. I'm not sure that sliding the mouse across the top of the menu bar won't also... but I just have a feeling that will be less annoying (mostly because I currently use two monitors on my one Mac, and already move the mouse between screens all the time, and I don't find it the least bit annoying, so to me, I just think it will be like having an additional screen to work on, that just happens to have the processing happening on another computer). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 15:52:46 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >Do you >think Timbuktu would lag on a GB ethernet setup? I meant to put this on the other email... sorry. I'm not sure where the lag is happening in Timbuktu. What I find isn't so much a delay in things happening, so much as it is a delay in me seeing it. If I click something that should beep, it beeps pretty much right away... however, if there should also be a window pop open, I won't see the window open until a good half second or more later. And I don't notice that the lag is too much worse over a slower connection (dialup and DSL). So it may just be the way Timbuktu deals with sending the screen draws. Also, it seems easy to get ahead of it. If you move the mouse too fast, it won't show you where it has gone, and then it jumps. So you end up moving slower so you can target correctly rather than constantly jumping around the screen hoping to get the right spot. And you have to click slower or it will accept it as a double click or ignore additional clicks. None of it is that far off. Maybe by half a second. But when you are doing long, repetative things, those half seconds add up fast. Since I can't say that I notice a huge difference in the lag when there is a huge difference in bandwidth, then I tend to think the lag may be elsewhere. Either in the remote machine's ability to processes everything, or in Timbuktu's limit of displaying or sending/receiving the data. -chris From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 6 16:29:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1083878971.14680.39.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 20:40, Jules Richardson wrote: > I get no spin-up from the hard disk never mind - stiction it is... I got the bottom board off the drive and managed to free up the spindle by hand, it now seems to spin up properly by itself... Now I have a booting machine :-) Unfortunately there isn't much in the way of data on the drive - terminal program, spreadsheet and not much else. The drive's suffering from a few bad/marginal blocks it seems, so I'll have to figure out a way of backing it up (I'll at least grab a raw 40MB image of the drive by sticking it into my desktop PC) Anyone got any pretty audio or video demos which will work on the TT030 machines? (probably not...) Were any games ever produced for them? (Again, probably not :-) cheers Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 6 17:02:51 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... Message-ID: <200405062202.i46M2phc020985@huey.classiccmp.org> >Anyone got any pretty audio or video demos which will work on the TT030 >machines? (probably not...) Were any games ever produced for them? >(Again, probably not :-) Does the TT run ST software? If so, I've got a few games and other software. If you want to try, I can email you a few 720k diskette images - you can make the disks on a PC. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 6 17:02:51 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... Message-ID: <200405062202.i46M2phc020984@huey.classiccmp.org> At 20:40 06/05/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >I know very little about these machines, but one just turned up on the >doorstep for the museum. Power supply checks out, I get a white display >(so something useful looks to be happening in the video circuitry), but >I get no spin-up from the hard disk (A Seagate ST-157 SCSI drive) and a >steady floppy drive light. > >I'm not sure if the hard disk is fixable yet - no idea if it's a head >crash or whatever. There seems to be little about these drives on the >web, but I did see one comment that they were famous for stiction - in >which case maybe I can give it a hand in spinning up... > >Does anyone have install media if it comes to that though? I can always >drop a different SCSI drive in it (I think I have a spare 160MB drive >somewhere), but I don't have any floppies for this machine and I gather >they never were particularly common, sitting somewhere between the ST >and the Falcon... > >cheers > >Jules Try putting a blank 720K MS-DOS formatted diskette in the floppy drive. I don't have intimate experience with the TT030 (haven't found one yet), but I believe it has the operating system in ROM, just like the ST series, which I do know fairly well. I do know that with my ST machines, the screen just shows "white" unless there is a diskette in the drive. Then the system will come up. The ST (and I believe the TT) uses a FAT format, and can read/write DOS disks - a blank formatted disk works on the ST, so I'm guessing it might work on the TT as well. Failing that, I do know someone locally with a TT030 who might be able to send an install disk image... Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 6 17:38:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <200405062202.i46M2phc020984@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405062202.i46M2phc020984@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1083883138.14680.44.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 22:02, Dave Dunfield wrote: > I don't have intimate experience with the TT030 (haven't found one yet), but I > believe it has the operating system in ROM, just like the ST series, which I do > know fairly well. Ahh, fair enough - I was into Amigas back in those days so I know almost nothing about ST machines or anything that came later... > The ST (and I believe the > TT) uses a FAT format, and can read/write DOS disks - a blank formatted disk works > on the ST, so I'm guessing it might work on the TT as well. Hmm - I wonder if the hard disk is FAT too... that'd really sort out backing it up as I can just drop the drive into my PC and Linux should be able to read the filesystem itself and not just a raw drive image. cheers Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 17:57:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405060536.BAA08866@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 6, 4 01:32:18 am Message-ID: > > > Basically, the microcontroller triggers a thyristor (SCR) on the > > tablet driver PCB (actually iside the tablet, at one corner) which > > discharges a capacitor through a 1-turn coil around one side of the > > tablet. This causes a magnetic pulse to propagage down metal wires > > across the tablet. IIRC, it sets up magnetostrictive strains in the > > wires, and thus propagates essentially at the speed of sound. > > I'm not sure how accurate this is for the pad I have. > > The pad is a two-layer PCB, with the working area covered by a grid of > printed-circuit "wires", in one direction on one side of the PCB and > the other direction on the other side. They are surprisingly far Oh, it's a Kriz tablet (after Stan Kriz at 3 rivers). I have never fully understood how they work either. The 'wires' in the PCB carry electrical currents, and are sequenced in some way by the microcontroller. The puck/pen contains a pickup coil, the output of which is amplified and fed back to the microcontroller. There;s no ADC On the pen input, the signal is conveted to a 2-level one. And the resolution is _much_ higher than the spacing between the 'wires'. I have the schemaitcs of the PERQ 2 tablet (which uses this principle), and they don't give much away. One day I'll disassemble the microcontroller ROM and make sense of it all... > apart, on the order of =BE". I haven't traced the circuitry enough to > know how accurate your description is, though I didn't see anything > like the one-turn coil you describe - everything electrical, besides > the serial connector, power, and the puck, is on the PCB. Two parallel > etch runs could form a one-turn coil; I don't recall seeing them, but I I was assuming this was a magnetostrictive tablet, like the older Summagraphics ones. Obviously not. -tony From bshannon at tiac.net Thu May 6 18:44:39 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 References: Message-ID: <409ACDE7.4000407@tiac.net> Um, have you ever met Joe? Bill Sudbrink wrote: >>Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year >> >ago! > >Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was >wondering >the same thing! > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 6 18:39:38 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: The Atari TT030 is a *VERY* cool machine. The OS is in ROM, and it is able to use standard SCSI drives (mine has a 1GB drive), and it can be hooked up to a VGA monitor. It uses FAT formated floppies, and IIRC, some or all have 1.44MB floppy drives. What do you mean by install media? Is some kind of software needed to get it to recognize the HD? As you mention, they aren't that common, and do fall between the ST and the Falcon. The Falcon has the advantage of supporting more colours, but the TT030 is about twice as fast. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 6 18:47:57 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> Davison, Lee wrote: >Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? > > I am sure I do, because I have a handful of the chips in my lab at the office. I know they are in one of the National Semiconductor Databooks. I think it is the one called Special Functions. >I've got one chip + 1 ROM that isn't either of the usual speech >ROMs. This was supposed to have been pulled from a telephone >answering machine. > > Mine were for a talking punch press control from about 1983. Funny that the marketing guy that thought this up didn't realize that the noise in a stamping plant is such that you can't hear yourself talk, let alone listen to the machine tell you what was happening. I think DigiTalker was more intelligible than VOTRAX, another voice synthesizer chip, but had a limited vocabulary. If it was not in the ROM it could not be said, so your "special" ROM makes sense. VOTRAX was a phoneme generator. I have two of these. One is for a TRS-80 Model 3 and the other is a "generic" parallel interface type. >Lee. > > -chuck From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 6 19:07:20 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409AD338.8010308@nktelco.net> I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty primitive. I also have an 8085 emulator called a Millenium, but I don't remember the company name. This one is interesting because it is based on a 6800 processor in an S-100 chassis. It has the capability of being controlled via a remote computer. Has anyone seen one of these? I has a green vacuum florescent single line display and a large panel of special function buttons. I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... -chuck Joe R. wrote: >Wow! Cool find! I have one for the Z-80 CPU and I know where there's one >for the 6800. I have an old ProLog catalog and I think it shows the one for >the 4040 but I don't think it gives any details. I've never tried to use >mine and I know that the guy with the one for 6800 hasn't been able to make >his work. I've been looking for manuals for any of them but haven't found >one. I saw the mention of the one on Jim's site and I've written to him >several times but he's never replied. > > Joe > >At 06:59 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > > >>I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an >>electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that >>it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks >>like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and >>build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any >>information about it? The closest I came was >>http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the >>very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... >> >> >> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 6 19:26:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <409AD338.8010308@nktelco.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:07 PM 5/6/04 -0400, you wrote: >I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have >a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty >primitive. I'd like to get a copy of your manual. > >I also have an 8085 emulator called a Millenium, but I don't remember >the company name. Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" thick. This one is interesting because it is based on a 6800 >processor in an S-100 chassis. It has the capability of being controlled >via a remote computer. Has anyone seen one of these? I has a green >vacuum florescent single line display and a large panel of special >function buttons. I'm not sure if that's like the ones that I have or not. I haven't touched them in a long time. I know the ones that I but are made by Millenium but I don't remember the model numbers. They're in storage but I can pick them up and photograph them the first of next week if any is interested. Joe > >I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that >could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... > >-chuck > >Joe R. wrote: > >>Wow! Cool find! I have one for the Z-80 CPU and I know where there's one >>for the 6800. I have an old ProLog catalog and I think it shows the one for >>the 4040 but I don't think it gives any details. I've never tried to use >>mine and I know that the guy with the one for 6800 hasn't been able to make >>his work. I've been looking for manuals for any of them but haven't found >>one. I saw the mention of the one on Jim's site and I've written to him >>several times but he's never replied. >> >> Joe >> >>At 06:59 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>>I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an >>>electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that >>>it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks >>>like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and >>>build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any >>>information about it? The closest I came was >>>http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the >>>very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... >>> >>> >>> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 6 19:29:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Wow! TI-99/8 Hex-Bus Disk Drive/Controller Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Did you guys see this? Joe From medavidson at mac.com Thu May 6 19:42:16 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Wow! TI-99/8 Hex-Bus Disk Drive/Controller In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <63833AD2-9FBF-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Yep, and someone won it for $738! On May 6, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Joe R. wrote: > Did you guys see this? > > > Joe > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu May 6 20:56:15 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Need power adapter for VideoBrain Message-ID: <007f01c433d6$7ca98980$82406b43@66067007> Found a videobrain TV-500 computer today but no power supply with it. Anyone have an extra one for sale or know were to get one? Thanks From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 22:42:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <409AD338.8010308@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at May 6, 4 08:07:20 pm Message-ID: > I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that > could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... You want to make a Radio Shack Model 100 in a single package using a PIC? Rather you than me! -tony From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 6 22:55:36 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I acquired a dead VT52 DecScope today and I am going to attempt to revive it. I have a copy of the VT52 maintenance manual. I am also getting a second one that "lights up" in about a week. I am hoping to be able to create at least one functional VT52. Does anyone here have any experience repairing a dead VT52 DecScope? When I apply power, I hear a mild hum coming from the transformer area, but there is nothing on the screen.. no cursor, no raster. I just turned it on this evening and have not followed through the debugging information in the manual. One thing I did notice is that the manual talks about a fuse on the back. There is no fuse on mine, but I do see what appears to be a circuit breaker button on the right side near the on/off switch. Any ideas from experienced folk would be welcome! Thanks, Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 6 22:56:06 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when pressed. Ashley From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 00:51:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> References: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200405070553.BAA24373@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I think DigiTalker was more intelligible than VOTRAX, another voice > synthesizer chip, but had a limited vocabulary. If it was not in the > ROM it could not be said, so your "special" ROM makes sense. VOTRAX > was a phoneme generator. I have two of these. One is for a TRS-80 > Model 3 and the other is a "generic" parallel interface type. VOTRAX, that brings back memories. I once used one of those; it was a serial-port model, with phonemes chosen by characters sent down a serial line from the host...it was a kinda fun toy. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 01:34:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Apochryphal? Message-ID: Found while scouring Usenet for something totally unrelated: "Well, you never know what someone might be doing with old, but usable, hardware. I have heard that there is a major bank in Great Britain that keeps an IBM 360 running because its 1401 emulator emulates a 704 (as did the original 1401) for a program whose Autocoder source was lost long ago. Also, don't underestimate the geek factor. Was AlphaLISP ever ported to Alpha Micro's 680x0 line? "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman she meets and then teams up with three complete strangers to kill again." -- TV listing for "The Wizard of Oz" in a Marin County newspaper," Posted 2002-04-03 by one Michael Roach. Apocryphal? Who knows. Might be worth following up one... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri May 7 02:05:54 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Apochryphal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405070005.54326.lbickley@bickleywest.com> 1) In actual fact, the 1401 never emulated the IBM 70x series. The IBM 704 was a predessor of the IBM 709, 7090 and Stretch computers. The IBM System/360 Model 65 and 67 did emulate the IBM 7090 - and hence "almost" the 704 whose instructions were a subset of the 709. The System/360's Model 30 did emulate the 1401 - so they were probably running a 360/30 - for Autocoder 1401 programs. 2) I had an Alpha Micro - and I don't remember ever seeing AlphaLISP being ported to the 68XXX line. 3) I love the "Wizard of Oz" byline. Sounds like so much of today's news ;-) Lyle On Thursday 06 May 2004 23:34, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Found while scouring Usenet for something totally unrelated: > > "Well, you never know what someone might be doing with old, but usable, > hardware. I have heard that there is a major bank in Great Britain > that keeps an IBM 360 running because its 1401 emulator emulates a 704 > (as did the original 1401) for a program whose Autocoder source was > lost long ago. Also, don't underestimate the geek factor. Was > AlphaLISP ever ported to Alpha Micro's 680x0 line? > "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman > she meets and then teams up with three complete strangers to kill > again." -- TV listing for "The Wizard of Oz" in a Marin County newspaper," > > Posted 2002-04-03 by one Michael Roach. > > Apocryphal? Who knows. Might be worth following up one... -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 02:33:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200405070750.DAA24925@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [Gerold Pauler ] > Look at > http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/Summafiles/Bit%20Pad%202%20Tech%20Ref.pdf Lovely. Thank you very much. That is *almost* exactly what I wanted, certainly close enough to be very useful. > This should be the right docu > (DIP switches are on the last two pages 60,61) ;-) But those are pages D-2 and D-4, documenting switch banks 1 and 3; page D-3, which presumably describes DIP switch bank 2, is missing (as is page D-1, which the table of contents says has a command summary). I find no documentation on at least one command I stumbled across by accident, one which causes ASCII reports to end with CR rather than CRLF; presumably there also exists a command which switches it back to CRLF. There may exist others too; I'm going to try all 128 ASCII characters.... However, those are minor. This document is extremely helpful, largely because the incompletenesses are slight and what it does document matches, as far as I can tell, the tablet I have. (When I saw the report-version response documentation, I was fairly sure it would.) Did you scan it? Do you have any channel to the people who did? I'd be interested in getting whoever has the paper manual to check it against the PDF and see what else may be missing.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Fri May 7 03:25:35 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> <200405070750.DAA24925@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <409B47FF.3080509@gmx.net> der Mouse schrieb: >>http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/Summafiles/Bit%20Pad%202%20Tech%20Ref.pdf > But those are pages D-2 and D-4, documenting switch banks 1 and 3; page > D-3, which presumably describes DIP switch bank 2, is missing (as is > page D-1, which the table of contents says has a command summary). I > find no documentation on at least one command I stumbled across by > accident, one which causes ASCII reports to end with CR rather than > CRLF; presumably there also exists a command which switches it back to > CRLF. There may exist others too; I'm going to try all 128 ASCII > characters.... Sorry, didn't check it for completeness. :-( But you find some descriptions for switch #2 on pages 33 and 36 (4-10, 4-12). > Did you scan it? Do you have any channel to the people who did? I'd > be interested in getting whoever has the paper manual to check it > against the PDF and see what else may be missing.... No, I didn't scan it and sorry I don't have any channel to them. It was just slow working memory. After I got my MM1201 I was searching for new drivers and I found them on their Website. Now after I remembered them, I thought maybe they also have some documentation, looked and found it. They also have stuff for other tablets like calcomp, .. Gerold From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 03:27:35 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <409B47FF.3080509@gmx.net> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> <200405070750.DAA24925@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <409B47FF.3080509@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200405070830.EAA25058@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> But those are pages D-2 and D-4, documenting switch banks 1 and 3; >> page D-3, which presumably describes DIP switch bank 2, is missing >> (as is page D-1, which the table of contents says has a command >> summary). > Sorry, didn't check it for completeness. :-( Well, as I said, it's still very helpful. :-) > But you find some descriptions for switch #2 on pages 33 and 36 > (4-10, 4-12). Yes, some. It still leaves SW2 switches 1 and 2 undocumented. I have twice accidentally caused it to switch from CRLF to bare CR for ASCII reports, but despite trying all 128 ASCII characters have been unable to do so deliberately. I also have been unable to switch to binary reports. I noodled around their website a bit and found an email address, to which I have sent a note asking about these. We'll see what, if anything, comes back. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri May 7 05:58:11 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media) Message-ID: <200405071058.i47AwAhc024277@huey.classiccmp.org> >never mind - stiction it is... I got the bottom board off the drive and >managed to free up the spindle by hand, it now seems to spin up properly >by itself... I have a little story about Stiction ... this is not "cyber legend", this actually happened, and I was the one who did it! Way back, sometime in the mid to late 80's, when this stuff was not cheap or easy to come by, somebody gave me a dead Lapine "Titan" hard drive - I think it was a 20meg drive. The drive just wouldn't spin up at all. I tried the "shake and bake" technique, rotating it back and forth about the spindle axis during power up etc. - no dice, the drive just would NOT spin up. So, "this is trash --- lets look inside". Popped the top off, and immediately discovered that the platters did not want to turn. On closer inspection, I discovered that the head did not want to budge from the platter surface, and came to the conclusion that the head was stuck to the platter. Memory is a bit dim on exactly what I did, however during my fooling around the head eventually came lose, and I could spin the platter - there was a discolored spot which had been under the head - it was slightly rough due to a bit of surface corrosion or deposits. I don't recall why, but "just for kicks", I took a fine cloth, polished the spot on the platter (IIRC it was still discolored, but I removed the surface deposits). Blew out the drive with a bit of air, and put the top back on, and installed it in a machine to "see what would happen". Not suprisingly the drive spun up right away. So, I low-level formatted the drive and ran a test --- then I got a suprise --- NO ERRORS! This was interesting "I wonder how long it will last", so I left it running surface scans overnight --- in the morning --- NO ERRORS! So I used it for "non critical" data - months went by and I never got a disk error. Eventually I gave the machine to a company I worked for who used it as a lab/test machine, and when I left the place a few years later, it was still going and to my knowlege had never gotten an error. "Clean room ... we don't need no steeenking clean room". Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 7 08:28:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 References: Message-ID: <16539.36616.355070.763691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case Ashley> is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when Ashley> pressed. Take off the keycaps and hose down the contacts with contact cleaner. Failing that, use a solvent such as alcohol. VT52 keyboard switches are gold contacts, not sealed, so they can get dirty but they are highly tolerant of cleaners. paul From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 7 08:39:59 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 References: <16539.36616.355070.763691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <002001c43438$cb7b87e0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Thanks for the tip. Where does one get contact cleaner and is it any more effective than alcohol? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 > >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > Ashley> What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case > Ashley> is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when > Ashley> pressed. > > Take off the keycaps and hose down the contacts with contact cleaner. > Failing that, use a solvent such as alcohol. > > VT52 keyboard switches are gold contacts, not sealed, so they can get > dirty but they are highly tolerant of cleaners. > > paul > From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 7 08:47:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 References: <16539.36616.355070.763691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <002001c43438$cb7b87e0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16539.37726.783579.464489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Thanks for the tip. Where does one get contact cleaner and Ashley> is it any more effective than alcohol? Radio Shack carries it, as would any of the dozens of electronic supply companies such as Contact East. More effective than alcohol? Probably. Alcohol is nice because it's readily available and safe for most plastics (but not for plexiglas). The same should be true for contact cleaner. Other easily available substances like acetone are more likely to dissolve things. I don't know what contact cleaner uses these days for active ingredients. Back before it became non-PC, various freon-like substances were used, and those work very well, but you're not allowed to buy those anymore. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 7 08:50:11 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 May 2004 05:58:11 CDT." <200405071058.i47AwAhc024277@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200405071350.i47DoBQ00451@mwave.heeltoe.com> Dave Dunfield wrote: >Way back, sometime in the mid to late 80's, when this stuff was not cheap or >easy to come by, somebody gave me a dead Lapine "Titan" hard drive - I think >it was a 20meg drive. The drive just wouldn't spin up at all. Ah, Tony Lapine. I love the story and it doesn't suprise me a bit. Certainly inside Lapine's engineering labs they had laminar flow hoods with open drives. (I remember waltzing through their labs once or twice) and those heads flew so high that just vacuming out the chamber would probably be fine :-) just don't shut it off :-) as I recall most makers of small drives at that time struggled with proper coatings to keep the heads from sticking to the platter... -brad From desmet at cnam.fr Wed May 5 09:34:06 2004 From: desmet at cnam.fr (Olivier De Smet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: HP 85-86 roms Message-ID: <4098FB5E.4060306@cnam.fr> Hello, I was wondering if it's possible to use rom dump as binary program (loaded with loadbin), perhaps with some "relocations" ? (I have an HP86B and some CS-80 HD but no EMS roms) Thanks in advance From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Wed May 5 11:21:56 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405050001.i4501Shf007124@huey.classiccmp.org> <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409914A4.6080501@mcdermith.net> The instrument reliability was similar... One of the standard tests at the HP Colorado Springs Divisions (I assume it similar elsewhere in HP) was to put the equipment in a test chamber and run it at 50 deg C 90% humidity for a couple of days. While testing the 1631 the test tech accidentally set the temp way high with the 90% humidity and left for the weekend... There were two test run units in the chamber, and on both units the tops of all the electrolytics on the PS were cupped due to the heat, as well as visible melting on some of the other plastic parts (the plastic nosecone was obviously stressed...) We took the two units and (for the fun of it) applied power. One powered up, and could run measurements. The other worked OK once we had replaced the power supply with one from the line. Of course, their testing days were done and we replaced them with two new line units, but after replacing the second power supply and some of the cosmetic parts, they ended up as lab instruments on a bench... Pretty impressive, along with the other testing -- the shaker table (it would shake all the keys off the 64000s during test -- keys all over the test chamber...), 10' drop test, days of temp cycle testing between the instrument limits, and electrostatic testing (one of the test guys would wander around with a 10K test wand and zap everything in sight...) When I worked in displays, every so often someone would get the cables in the casters of their chair and scoot across the cube to grab the phone, and drag a display off the bench (or a scope, etc.) Seen most units survive this _special_ environmental test... Bill BTW: Regarding the thread about the 6809 processor, the 1630/1631 used the 6809 as the main processor. 1611/1615 used an 8080, and the 1610 used a 6800. 165x/16500 used a 68000. IIRC the 1640 serial analyzer used a 8080... Joe R. wrote: > My favorite story is about the badly beat up 9825 that I found in a > large metal dumpster full of water at Patrick AFB. It sat outside for at ...snip...snip...snip... > > Joe > > At 09:19 PM 5/4/04 -0700, Michael Holley wrote: > >>>That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are >>>nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. >> >>In 1979 I did a data-logging project at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in ...snip...snip...snip... >>Michael Holley >>www.swtpc.com/mholley From gohai at gmx.net Wed May 5 13:55:14 2004 From: gohai at gmx.net (Gottfried Haider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <010d01c432d2$813b13b0$a67a6e50@gottfried> Hello, I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and expensive) than the IMSAI? thanks! Gottfried Haider PS: Please CC me as I am not subscribed to the list. From jdbryan at acm.org Wed May 5 14:57:48 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503161923.0091e8b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <409686F6.5010105@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405051957.i45JvnrU025789@mail.bcpl.net> On 3 May 2004 at 16:19, Joe R. wrote: > I'm not sure what kind of processor was in the 520 but I don't think it > was a standard CPU like the 680x0 that was used in the 9000/200 and > 300s. It's described in the August 1983 HP Journal article, "An 18-MHz, 32-Bit VLSI Microprocessor." Excerpt: "The heart of HP's new 32-bit VLSI computer system is the Memory/Processor Module. The central processing unit in this module is an NMOS circuit containing 450,000 transistors on a single chip operating at a clock frequency of 18 MHz. This compact CPU chip, which implements a 32-bit version of the HP 3000 Computer's stack-based architecture, is designed and microprogrammed to support multiple-CPU operations within a single Memory/Processor Module." That issue was dedicated to the hardware, and the March 1984 issue covered the 9000/520 software. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 6 10:57:45 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <4091F4C5.8000708@mcdermith.net> Message-ID: <200405061557.i46FvkrQ000313@mail.bcpl.net> On 2 May 2004 at 22:07, Christian Fandt wrote: > Secondly, can the HP250/9825(45) uP connection be verified by any > other source(s)? The April 1979 issue of "Hewlett-Packard Journal" (published by HP) has an article titled, "Cost-Effective Electronics for the Small-Business Computer" that describes the HP 250 processor. It says, in part: "The heart of the system is a 16-bit NMOS processor manufactured by the HP NMOS facility at Loveland, Colorado. This is a hybrid chip set which is also used in other HP products, such as the desktop System 45." > Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical > info available on the HP250 machines? That HPJ issue devoted seven articles (and the cover) to the HP 250. -- Dave From matthias.bauchinger at chello.at Thu May 6 11:26:55 2004 From: matthias.bauchinger at chello.at (Matthias Bauchinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: DEC HiNote Ultra Battery Problem Message-ID: <409A674F.3000605@chello.at> Hello Fred van Kempen, I've seen your post quite some time ago about your problem with the "locked" battery of the Dec HiNote Ultra. You wrote that is was kind of "locked" and that DEC came up with a small tool to "revive" it. I now have the same problem with my notebook. It doesn't charge...even in the small LCD-display at the right of the display-chassis the battery-icon is not displayed. But I can not find this small tool which should bring up my battery again. The url (revive.com) seems to be replaced. Could you please help me with a hint or something? That would be very nice. best regards Matthias Bauchinger PS.: Sorry for posting it to several email-adresses...was not sure which one would work. PPS.: Your old post: Ha! DEC noticed a problem with these battery packs "locking up" after extensive periods of no activity, so they came up with a small utility (revive.com) to "revive" the batt pack. It worked, too.. my battery came back to life, and, after a full charge, is as good as were it new.. ! Lappy is not a portable, ultra-light TCP/LAT/Serial/X11 terminal :) (muhaha, with 802.11b WLAN ;-) Cheers, Fred From Ashley at carderweb.com Thu May 6 22:21:25 2004 From: Ashley at carderweb.com (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 Message-ID: I acquired a dead VT52 DecScope today and I am going to attempt to revive it. I have a copy of the VT52 maintenance manual. I am also getting a second one that "lights up" in about a week. I am hoping to be able to create at least one functional VT52. Does anyone here have any experience repairing a dead VT52 DecScope? When I apply power, I hear a mild hum coming from the transformer area, but there is nothing on the screen.. no cursor, no raster. I just turned it on this evening and have not followed through the debugging information in the manual. One thing I did notice is that the manual talks about a fuse on the back. There is no fuse on mine, but I do see what appears to be a circuit breaker button on the right side near the on/off switch. Any ideas from experienced folk would be welcome! Thanks, Ashley From Ashley at carderweb.com Thu May 6 22:22:54 2004 From: Ashley at carderweb.com (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 Message-ID: What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when pressed. Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 7 09:46:17 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 References: Message-ID: <006101c43442$0e44eae0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Something strange is going on. I posted this message last night, but I sent it from a different email address. Then I noticed that it wasn't showing up on the list, so I used the email address that I used when I registered with CCTalk and then it showed up on the list. It seems that my this particular message was held hostage until it was released by the CCTalk email filtering police! Maybe that's what happened with the "stolen altair" email from last year that just showed up again recently. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 > I acquired a dead VT52 DecScope today and I am going to attempt > to revive it. I have a copy of the VT52 maintenance manual. I > am also getting a second one that "lights up" in about a week. > I am hoping to be able to create at least one functional VT52. > > Does anyone here have any experience repairing a dead VT52 > DecScope? When I apply power, I hear a mild hum coming from > the transformer area, but there is nothing on the screen.. > no cursor, no raster. I just turned it on this evening and > have not followed through the debugging information in the > manual. One thing I did notice is that the manual talks > about a fuse on the back. There is no fuse on mine, but I > do see what appears to be a circuit breaker button on the > right side near the on/off switch. > > Any ideas from experienced folk would be welcome! > > Thanks, > Ashley > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 7 10:07:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, and CDRW media. I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How retro :) http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bert at brothom.nl Fri May 7 11:36:30 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: ICL7660? References: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> <20040505120331.GB2043@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <409BBB0E.5E8C5CF6@brothom.nl> > OK... thanks to one and all for tips... I will probably go with Digikey or > the supplier in Christchurch (since if I order from them, it will arrive on > one of the first flights in October). I do need the thru-hole variety for October??? I can imagine that living on the southpole implies long delivery times, but october??? If I order something, I'm always anxious to receive it, preferably in one day... Bert From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 7 12:16:36 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c43457$0e30ba10$a0340f14@mcothran1> Paper works for me. When we reincarnated our late 1970s PDP 11/40 college environment using the simh simulator, we had no copies of programs on magtape or disk or paper tape. It was all based on program and file printouts from 1978 on greenbar paper printed on an LA36 DecWriter. We had to do *LOTS* of typing because OCR didn't work well on aged LA36 greenbar printours. But the paper listings were readable by our 40-something failing eyes and we ended up faithfully reproducing the system that we once knew, loved, and spent many many late nights on. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:07 AM Subject: cd longevity > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > and CDRW media. > > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How > retro :) > > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri May 7 12:17:18 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > and CDRW media. > > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How > retro :) Actually, if ya wanna go techno-retro - we found (MGM Studios / Library of Congress / Filmbond Archival Institute) that the most long-lived medium for this kind of work is optically encoded data on well-processed Mylar linear film of some kind. With proper encoding techniques, one can get bit densities of more than a megabyte per inch - of standard 35MM sprocketed stock - of course an order of magnitude more using 70MM - and even more if wider stock is used. Carfully processed Mylar, with proper attention to washing and drying, will survive more than 150 years before degradation, if packed and sealed against the environment - and stored in a 'normal' temperature range. And of course the devices to read the data are just a light source and array of photo-sensors, with perhaps some simple optics for focussing and image expansion. I've seen a prototype film-sound reproducing device using IR LEDs and a video scanner chip - with the image being decoded back into sound on a cheap laptop - and this was 5 years ago.... But plastic mono-layer photographic stock film has the longest life and a very high BPI density as well. Cheers John From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 12:16:42 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405071724.NAA27297@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper > printouts. How retro :) A while ago - I can't remember whether it was on this list or not - I saw the question "I have some data I want to be able to retrieve in 50 years, what's the best way to store it?". Aside from "copy it to new media every four or five years or so", the only thing I ever saw proposed that sounded convincing was something machine-readable (barcodes?) on acid-free paper, kept in an inert atmosphere. (Actually, for as little as 50 years, I'm not sure the inert atmosphere is really necessary.) A megabit per page is not all that implausible; at 8x10? inches printable area per page, that's only a little over 100dpi each way. (sqrt(1048576/(8*10.5))?=?111.72756-.) Hardly suitable for routine backups of multi-gigabyte data sets, but plenty good enough for archival of many things. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 7 12:29:20 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16539.51056.774034.970058@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I Jay> just came across a rather detailed article about the topic of Jay> longevity of CD, DVD, and CDRW media. Jay> I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper Jay> printouts. How retro :) Probably not. How long is long? See http://www.longnow.org/ paul From kevin.potter at mnpa.co.uk Fri May 7 12:10:11 2004 From: kevin.potter at mnpa.co.uk (KEVIN POTTER) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Omnibot 2000 Message-ID: Are you still looking for a tray and controller; http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2662&item=3191400436&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail is from MNPA whose registered office is at Ashcombe House, The Crescent, Leatherhead, Surrey KT22 8LQ. CAUTION: The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended for use only by the addressee. Any unauthorised dissemination or copying of this e-mail, and any use or disclosure of information contained in it is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. Please notify by reply e-mail if this e-mail has been sent to you in error and delete it together with any backups on your systems immediately. While attachments are virus checked, MNPA does not accept any liability in respect of any virus which is not detected. Opinions, conclusions or other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of MNPA shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 7 12:58:25 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040507175824.GH12848@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jay West, from writings of Fri, May 07, 2004 at 10:07:22AM -0500: > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > and CDRW media. > > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How > retro :) Acid-free paper printouts, that is, and store as much as possible on multiple hard drives, in multiple systems, utilizing good backup strategies. ...and to think that some people thought that I was crazy because of all that I've said in the past about CD ROT, particularly in discussions pertaining to the superiority of vinyl LP's for audio vs. CDs. :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html Darn... and they're treating it like it's new news. Heh! :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) And check out the bizarre quote: "Irons is still pretty happy with CD technology, since it beats vinyl LPs and tape for longevity. Now that he's moved his discs to an apartment with a more stable temperature, he's noticed that the decay has slowed." Vinyl LP's, carefully maintained, have a lifetime estimated to be 100 years or more; when played on high-quality turntables, wear isn't really an issue. Unfortunately, no mention was made of CDs using a gold layer which is supposed to greatly increase their durability. Didn't Kodak discontinue their manufacture of such gold CDs a while back due to a lack of demand for them? -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From phillipmilks at juno.com Fri May 7 12:50:55 2004 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20040507.105111.27881.146006@webmail20.lax.untd.com> Message: 12 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 04:42:39 +0100 (BST) From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain > I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that > could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... You want to make a Radio Shack Model 100 in a single package using a PIC? Rather you than me! -tony It probably wouldn't be that difficult, with the overblown versions of the PIC that are availble today - 64KRAM/ROM access aren't difficult, it seems. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri May 7 13:21:26 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Life with PDP-11's. Message-ID: In 1977 I started out with an 11/35 with 4 RK05 drives. System was on one pack, programs on another pack, data was stored on 2 packs. Software was hard coded to look for 2 Megs of data files at a time. When we got the RP04 we made it look like 20 RK05's to the application software. In about 1980 our R&D lab had upgraded from a PDP11/35 to a PDP11/70 system with one RP04. We were in a computer room in the middle of a warehouse, when we asked for more AC they said we could have an additional air conditioner. About a week later a sawsall blade came through the wall of the computer room as they cut a hole for a new window air conditioner. The output side was in the general warehouse space! We were a little mad because nobody warned us about the dust flying into the computer room. We shutdown until the AC was installed. It did cool the room down a lot. Only having one RP04 was a problem. Whenever a backup was scheduled I took the system pack and the backup pack in the back of my Toyota to another computer room a mile away so that I could do a standalone backup. Nothing like walking across the parking lot with the system disk in one hand and the backup copy in the other. I was careful not to drop either pack. Later we thought about getting a VAX 11/730 but decide the 11/70 was fast enough. Mike From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 13:38:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Hitachi HN27C1024HG-85 Message-ID: I've got 16 Hitachi HN27C1025HG-85 EPROMs on a board I just salvaged from a photocopier. I figure these would be useful to someone. Any interest? Make an offer... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri May 7 14:24:28 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405071924.MAA28370@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came >across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, >and CDRW media. > >I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How >retro :) > ---snip--- The only real chance is to make sure that the data has redundant storage. Paper burns well. Why is it that many of the classic systems we like have no docs. These docs were on paper. One type of storage is no solution at all. When I look at things like older floppies, the biggest failure I've seen was the higher end floppies with the inner liners. The self sticking adhesive eventually migrated through the liner to the disk surface. Of course wear and tear is an issue for those in constant use but I'm more concerned here with archiving. As you can easily see there is no especially great storage media. Each has its downfalls. Redundancy in media types as well as redundancy in the actual data stored are the only chances we have. As the article points out, there are unforeseen problems with most every single method. Any valid system must allow for this and respond to this in a preplanned procedure. I store my valued information on as many storage types as I can. There are practical limits for me. I try to get others to duplicate what I have ( with limited success ). What if my house burned. What if the roof fails and the rain comes in. What if I die. What if, what if.... We are solidly into the "Lost Information Age". Dwight From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 14:50:56 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405071950.i47Joucd001969@spies.com> store as much as possible on multiple hard drives, in multiple systems, utilizing good backup strategies. == How much of your PERQ software is stored this way? So far, I've not been able to find anyone who has a copy of POS or any other PERQ operating system that I can get to try to revive my machine, even though there are several people who 'have it somewhere' From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 14:53:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> > The only real chance is to make sure that the data has redundant storage. Paper burns well. Why is it that many of the classic systems we like have no docs. These docs were on paper. One type of storage is no solution at all. === This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org >> I << don't want to have the only surviving copy of a paper document or program. The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs that dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 15:02:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri May 7 15:21:06 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1083961266.978.31.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 16:02, Joe R. wrote: > > Hey Joe, that's Astro Too in Melbourne. I used to go there a *LOT* when I lived in Palm Bay. They got lots of ex nasa and air force stuff. From thompson at new.rr.com Fri May 7 16:18:48 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? Message-ID: Does the "gamer" lifestyle include classic computers or are we unlikely to see Sellam on there again? Comcast Agrees to Purchase TechTV Thursday, March 25, 2004 Comcast recently announced that it has signed an agreement to acquire TechTV, a cable network focused on cutting-edge technology and the impact of technology on daily life, from Vulcan Programming Inc. When the deal closes, Tech TV will be merged with G4, the Comcast-owned television network devoted to video games and the "gamer" lifestyle. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri May 7 16:27:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? Message-ID: <200405072127.OAA28472@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > > > Joe > Caught us with our pants down :( Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 15:47:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? In-Reply-To: <1083961266.978.31.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507164715.0083b850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:21 PM 5/7/04 -0400, you wrote: >On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 16:02, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > >Hey Joe, that's Astro Too in Melbourne. I used to go there a *LOT* when >I lived in Palm Bay. They got lots of ex nasa and air force stuff. > > > Yeap, that's the place. That and Astro I are a couple of my favorite scrounging spots. BTW do you know know that they've moved a lot bigger building? They're in the process of building an even larger one. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 15:48:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Wow! TI-99/8 Hex-Bus Disk Drive/Controller In-Reply-To: <63833AD2-9FBF-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507164815.0083cb90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Gee. For ONLY $738!!! Joe At 05:42 PM 5/6/04 -0700, you wrote: >Yep, and someone won it for $738! > >On May 6, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Joe R. wrote: > >> Did you guys see this? >> >> >> Joe >> > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri May 7 16:32:57 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? References: Message-ID: <00ae01c4347a$dded08d0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Thompson" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? > > Does the "gamer" lifestyle include classic computers or are we unlikely to > see Sellam on there again? > > Comcast Agrees to Purchase TechTV > Thursday, March 25, 2004 > > > Comcast recently announced that it has signed an agreement to acquire > TechTV, a cable network focused on cutting-edge technology and the impact of > technology on daily life, from Vulcan Programming Inc. When the deal > closes, Tech TV will be merged with G4, the Comcast-owned television network > devoted to video games and the "gamer" lifestyle. > > http://www.fuckedcompany.com/ All 285 TechTV employees fired, maybe they are just breaking their contracts to rehire them at minimum wage. For the most part gamers lust after the latest and greatest equipment, and maybe a few old school systems and consoles. From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri May 7 16:36:56 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <409C0178.7060409@nktelco.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Tuesday 20 April 2004 11:19, Lee Courtney wrote: > > >>Patrick, >> >>Very nice. Would you like contributions to build up the library? >> >>Lee Courtney >> >> > >Yes, I would. I was going to put that in the email, but it slipped my >mind. Contributions are always welcome. At the moment, I'm getting >pictures out of Peripheral Handbooks, so I shouldn't need any more >pictures from one of those. I'd definately appreciate some color >photos. Some pictures, like the TU77/78, just look like crap in the >handbook (bad/no contrast). > >Pat > > > I have a few board scans at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/modules/ There are Qbus, OMNIBUS, and some PDP-14 boards. Feel free to take what you want. -chuck From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 16:36:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Paul Thompson wrote: > Does the "gamer" lifestyle include classic computers or are we unlikely to > see Sellam on there again? > > Comcast Agrees to Purchase TechTV > Thursday, March 25, 2004 It's hard to say what will come of TechTV. The merger is the reason Leo left The Screen Savers. I suppose he's been around long enough to know that these sorts of buy-outs only end up being a net negative for the veterans. >From the press reports, I do know that they plan to move the main studio down to LA where G4 is produced. G4 is an obviously inferior station to TechTV. At least the impression I got of it when I had Comcast was that it was pretty lame (one show was one half hour of just virtual "tours" through video game scenery). If G4 is smart, they'll keep everything as is in SF and merge whatever good G4 content they have into TechTV and just continue to build their audience. If they are stupid, or their actions are inherently aimed at increasing revenues which translates into "being stupid" to a veteran audience--and "being stupid" is generally the case with big conglomerates--they'll gut TechTV, close down the SF studio (or just turn it into a "bureau"), try to move the programming to LA where the tech scene is a wannabe of the Silicon Valley, and die a slow, painful death. Video games are of course the main industry of the computer scene now, or at least the one that garners the most revenue and advertising dollars where the typical consumer is involved, so for sure they will try to gear the station more towards gaming. But if they decide to phase out TechTV's core programming, which is their computer help shows, it'll be a mistake. There will always be geeks, and geeks like technology in general, not just video games. Anyway, it depends on what their marketing wizards determine is their core market. I'm sure if people wrote in en masse to suggest that G4/TechTV keep it's core tech-specific programming then that would make an impact. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 16:40:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: <00ae01c4347a$dded08d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > http://www.fuckedcompany.com/ > > All 285 TechTV employees fired, maybe they are just breaking their contracts > to rehire them at minimum wage. For the most part gamers lust after the > latest and greatest equipment, and maybe a few old school systems and > consoles. My fucking gawd. Well, that's timely. I really can't believe this. Kind of shocking actually. Actually, *amazingly* shocking. I mean, what are they going to do? Run Anime for the next 7 days until they hire new hosts and come up with new shows? This makes no fucking sense whatsoever. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri May 7 16:21:47 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 References: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200405072121.RAA3230187@shell.TheWorld.com> >VOTRAX, that brings back memories. I once used one of those; it was a >serial-port model, with phonemes chosen by characters sent down a >serial line from the host...it was a kinda fun toy. I got one, new in the box, a year or so ago at a flea. I have yet to actually try it (what with all my stuff in deep storage at the moment -- but poised to come home to my new house) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allain at panix.com Fri May 7 16:51:28 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Hitachi HN27C1024HG-85 References: Message-ID: <007001c4347d$73e28d40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I've got 16 Hitachi HN27C1025HG-85 EPROMs on a board I > just salvaged from a photocopier. > I figure these would be useful to someone. Any interest? In gerneral it would be nice to have a www page to go to to decode numbered EPROM types for use when pulled/erased/rewritten. I have a bunch of pulls but I'll admit _little_ knowledge as to where they can be used. John A. From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri May 7 16:54:50 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409C05AA.2070507@nktelco.net> Joe R. wrote: >At 08:07 PM 5/6/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >>I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have >>a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty >>primitive. >> >> > > I'd like to get a copy of your manual. > > I will try to do that. >>I also have an 8085 emulator called a Millenium, but I don't remember >>the company name. >> >> > > Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens >up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I >also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" >thick. > > > The box is more the size and shape of say an IBM Selectric typewriter. The housing is yellow anodized aluminum though I think. > Joe > > > > >>I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that >>could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... >> >> >> I meant no disrespect to the 8085, only that anything I might want to do with a microcontroller in my basement on weekends I can do more easily with a PIC than an 8085, so I have not had the pleasure of using either tool. >>-chuck >> >> >> -chuck From tony.eros at machm.org Fri May 7 17:00:30 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: <200405072121.RAA3230187@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200405072159.RAA50389@smtp.9netave.com> I have a VOTRAX as well, sitting on a shelf in my office on top of a DECtalk unit. I've got to start playing more with this stuff... -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Megan Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:22 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Digitalker mm54104 >VOTRAX, that brings back memories. I once used one of those; it was a >serial-port model, with phonemes chosen by characters sent down a >serial line from the host...it was a kinda fun toy. I got one, new in the box, a year or so ago at a flea. I have yet to actually try it (what with all my stuff in deep storage at the moment -- but poised to come home to my new house) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 17:01:51 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals Message-ID: <200405072201.i47M1phV008797@spies.com> People who have been thinking about building an IDE MSCP Qbus controller may find these two manuals interesting: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 17:05:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: <409C0178.7060409@nktelco.net> References: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507180555.00875100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I missed the origianl message about this but I have pictures of a LOT of DEC cards. If the original sender will contact me directly we can set up something and I can FTP a bunch of them to you. Joe At 05:36 PM 5/7/04 -0400, you wrote: >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >>On Tuesday 20 April 2004 11:19, Lee Courtney wrote: >> >> >>>Patrick, >>> >>>Very nice. Would you like contributions to build up the library? >>> >>>Lee Courtney >>> >>> >> >>Yes, I would. I was going to put that in the email, but it slipped my >>mind. Contributions are always welcome. At the moment, I'm getting >>pictures out of Peripheral Handbooks, so I shouldn't need any more >>pictures from one of those. I'd definately appreciate some color >>photos. Some pictures, like the TU77/78, just look like crap in the >>handbook (bad/no contrast). >> >>Pat >> >> >> >I have a few board scans at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/modules/ There are >Qbus, OMNIBUS, and some PDP-14 boards. Feel free to take what you want. > >-chuck > > From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 17:13:46 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Millenium ICE Message-ID: <200405072213.i47MDk7r011737@spies.com> > Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens >up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I >also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" >thick. I'd like to add it to the scans if you get a chance to scan the manual. I've just put up a user's manual for the Futuredata. And, I'm working through the 64000 manuals I have access to. From arcarlini at iee.org Fri May 7 17:17:11 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <20040507175824.GH12848@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001e01c43481$0b4b8260$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Vinyl LP's, carefully maintained, have a lifetime estimated > to be 100 years or more; when played on high-quality > turntables, wear isn't really an issue. Assuming you don't mind the $10,000 outlay, you can get a turntable that uses an optical (laser) pickup. Then wear *really* isn't an issue. Data density and media fragility might be though. > Unfortunately, no mention was made of CDs using a gold layer > which is supposed to greatly increase their durability. > Didn't Kodak discontinue their manufacture of such gold CDs a > while back due to a lack of demand for them? I'm not sure you can rely on "Brand X" being invariant over any substantial period of time, i.e. the media you tested 6 months ago may well be manufactured slightly differently (or completely differently) now. Bulk buying may not help either - I expect that the stuff degrades on the shelf even before it is used. I'm not sure that worrying about the next 50 years is appropriate anyway. We're losing a good deal of stuff right now because it's not being archived in the first place. Once it's digital (in some reasonable form: HD, CD, DVD, etc.) then replicating losslessly (assuming you have some sort of checksumming and multiple copies for when one set of media goes bad) is at least feasible. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 7 17:27:11 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: <200405072201.i47M1phV008797@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040507172158.03572140@mail.ubanproductions.com> Thanks Al, I've been considering building an IDE/CompactFlash Unibus board for a while, but I don't see the advantage of implementing MSCP over just a couple of controller types (say RK05 and RP11). I say this because MSCP seems fairly complex and I know that at least some of the OS that I intend to use don't have drivers for MSCP. Isn't an oldest common denominator rule the way to go? --tom At 03:01 PM 5/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: >People who have been thinking about building an IDE MSCP >Qbus controller may find these two manuals interesting: > >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 17:46:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Millenium ICE In-Reply-To: <200405072213.i47MDk7r011737@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507184625.008c2320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I doubt that I'll have time to scan it but I can loan it to you for a short time. I love to scan it (and a hundred other things!) but I know that I'll never get around to it. Joe At 03:13 PM 5/7/04 -0700, you wrote: > >> Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens >>up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I >>also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" >>thick. > > >I'd like to add it to the scans if you get a chance to scan the manual. > >I've just put up a user's manual for the Futuredata. > >And, I'm working through the 64000 manuals I have access to. > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 17:53:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media) In-Reply-To: Dave Dunfield "Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media)" (May 7, 5:58) References: <200405071058.i47AwAhc024277@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <10405072353.ZM1173@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 5:58, Dave Dunfield wrote: > Popped the top off, and immediately discovered that the platters did > not want to turn. [...] > I don't recall why, but "just for kicks", I took a fine cloth, > polished the spot on the platter [...] > Blew out the drive with a bit of air, and put the top back on, and > installed it in a machine to "see what would happen". > > Not suprisingly the drive spun up right away. So, I low-level formatted the drive > and ran a test --- then I got a suprise --- NO ERRORS! I can't remember if I told this story before... I had a machine that ran for a couple of years; never powered off because it was a pain to get the drive to spin again. Well, the inevitable happened, and I had a power cut last August, which outlasted the UPS. This time the usual tricks didn't work, and I ended up taking the drive into the workshop. Even giving it a higher voltage on the 12V supply wouldn't make it start, so with nothing more to lose, off came the top. I discovered I could release the brake by hand, but even so I had to apply 14V (instead of 12V :-)) from a big bench PSU directly to the innards, and flick the disk with my finger to get it to start. However, once started, it would run on 12V, though it wouldn't restart normally if I let it stop. I had to think about how to keep that drive spinning while I took it back to the machine. Don't try this at home ;-) It went something like this: connect a PSU from a PC to the smallest available UPS, and stack the PSU and and the topless drive on the UPS . Start the drive as described above, then whip off the bench power leads and connect the PC PSU before it has a chance to spin down completely. I seem to remember using a paper clip to disable the brake while doing that. Unplug the UPS from the mains and carry the whole lot up to the office, with the drive still spinning. Connect to the computer, cross fingers, and power up the computer. To my surprise and releif, I was able to read almost all of the drive. I only lost a couple of files. Needless to say I replaced the drive after that :-) I've taken the tops off small drives a few times. I don't recommend this, because I may just have been lucky, but as a last resort it's allowed me to rescue the data from a few stuck or damaged drives. Except for the most recent one (I took the wrong screw out and finished the drive off). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 17:55:07 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Re: cd longevity" (May 7, 13:17) References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10405072355.ZM1176@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 13:17, John Lawson wrote: > On Fri, 7 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > > and CDRW media. > Actually, if ya wanna go techno-retro - we found (MGM Studios / Library > of Congress / Filmbond Archival Institute) that the most long-lived medium > for this kind of work is optically encoded data on well-processed Mylar > linear film of some kind. With proper encoding techniques, one can get > bit densities of more than a megabyte per inch - of standard 35MM > sprocketed stock - of course an order of magnitude more using 70MM - and > even more if wider stock is used. So our discussion a few weeks ago about film resolution was relevant after all ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 7 18:04:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> Message-ID: <003601c43487$9d02c410$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al; Want a "real" mirror of bitsavers? Just let me know. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: cd longevity > > > > > The only real chance is to make sure that the data has redundant > storage. Paper burns well. Why is it that many of the classic > systems we like have no docs. These docs were on paper. One type > of storage is no solution at all. > > === > > This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org > > >> I << don't want to have the only surviving copy of a paper document > or program. > > The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs that > dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri May 7 18:06:10 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <682892ab4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > But if they decide to phase out TechTV's > core programming, which is their computer help shows, it'll be a mistake. > There will always be geeks, and geeks like technology in general, not just > video games. This is strangely reminiscent of what BskyB (the UK "Sky" satellite TV co) did to "[.tv]". First they started it up as "The Computer Channel" and All Was Well. A few games shows, but the vast majority of the stuff was actually of general interest to computer users/geeks (delete as appropriate). The name got changed to "[.tv]" at some point, but the core programming remained mostly the same. In August 2000 (or was it 2001?) Sky ditched .tv. Why? "Not enough viewers" to put it bluntly. TTBOMK, at least three petitions have been sent to Sky asking them to start broadcasting the TechTV international feed over the Sky system - Sky's response? "No". I think one of the petitions had around 250,000 signatures... Over the past year, Sky have moved onto an "Increase prices, decrease choice [channels], increase length of advert breaks". Needless to say, the subscription was cancelled as soon as it came up for payment again. As an example, when Sky shut down the analogue satellite service (on the Astra 1 satellites), the cost of a base subscription was around ?8 per month. Now they've moved over to digital (on Astra 2) it's been upped to ?19 per month for what is effectively an inferior service. I've no objections to Sky using MPEG, what really annoys me is that they've pushed far too many channels onto the satellite. The bitrate is low enoguh to produce noticeable artifacting. Nice fact: The Office of Fair Trading investigated Sky's subscription costs not long ago. Their opinion? "Sky subscription fees are high, but not excessive". My opinion? Two million subscribers and none of them can be bothered to look at how much the charges have gone up. [ Rant mode off ] > Anyway, it depends on what their marketing wizards determine is their core > market. Sky's core market seems to be the "couch potato" market, i.e. "I'll watch whatever's on just because it's on." Their basic response to every single criticism seems to be "Ignore it and it'll go away". Damn marketdroids... > I'm sure if people wrote in en masse to suggest that G4/TechTV > keep it's core tech-specific programming then that would make an impact. This may sound a bit cynical but, well, don't be so sure... My experience of these companies is that they ignore basically everything that their customers say, unless it makes significant financial sense to listen. If they were going to lose, say, 10,000 out of 1million viewers, they'd ignore every one of the 10,000. If they were going to lose 750,000 out of 1mil, they *might* listen. Which brings us neatly back to the "couch potato" mentality - "It's on so I'll watch it, and I won't complain about the extortionate prices". Later, -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hey! Your Trakball is upside down! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 18:05:38 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup Message-ID: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. Ultimately I need it transferred to a hard disk but DAT (DDS or DDS2) or DLT (anything that can be read on a DLT7000) would be an excellent intermediate step. Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can provide the DDS or DLT tape. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 18:18:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at May 6, 4 11:56:06 pm Message-ID: > > > What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? > The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit > dirty and stick when pressed. Same method as usual. Take the whole thing apart as far as it will easily go (take everything out of the case, for example), then clean the case parts with anti-static foam cleaner (Eletrolube, Servisol, etc make this), clean the PCBs with propan-2-ol (isoproyl alcohol, etc). For the keyboard, pull the keycaps (make sure you have a diagram first!). Clean them all separately (this takes quite a time, but it's worth it!). If this is the keyboard I think it is, the key plungers and springs pull out of the plastic frame. Clean those too, and clean inside the frame housings with proan-2-ol. That should get it going again. -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 18:56:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: Al Kossow "qbus mscp ctlr manuals" (May 7, 15:01) References: <200405072201.i47M1phV008797@spies.com> Message-ID: <10405080056.ZM1325@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 15:01, Al Kossow wrote: > > People who have been thinking about building an IDE MSCP > Qbus controller may find these two manuals interesting: > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf We also mentioned DEC's UDA50 Programmer's Documentation Kit a while ago. I had a chance to play with a new scanner at work today, so I've provided scans of all three documents in the set, as TIFFs and PDFs. Due to lack of space I can't keep them there very long, but for the moment they're at http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pnt1/MSCP/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 7 19:23:48 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <200405071950.i47Joucd001969@spies.com> References: <200405071950.i47Joucd001969@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040508002348.GJ12848@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Al Kossow, from writings of Fri, May 07, 2004 at 12:50:56PM -0700: > How much of your PERQ software is stored this way? Alas, only a small percentage of it... most of it is stored on multiple floppies and tapes. Not good for long-term storage, I'll be the first to admit, but I've been unable to do otherwise thus far, but now, with all of the inexpensive hard drives, it would be much less expensive to do so than it would have been several years ago. > So far, I've not been able to find anyone who has a copy of > POS or any other PERQ operating system that I can get to try > to revive my machine, even though there are several people > who 'have it somewhere' My PERQs have been somewhat inaccessible, but I'm finishing up some rearranging that will allow me to get to them more easily, so if I can get one of them working, I can at least try to clone you a working POS and Accent distribution. Wow, you're in for some fun if you've never installed POS on a hard drive before! You'll get to play with all of the neat toys like scavenger, etc. and spend many, many, hours getting POS installed (Accent is easier, but you'll need to use POS to format the hard drive, etc.) If I can get things working again, then I can help you; I'm just hoping that my POS dist. tapes are still good, but if my hard drive is ok, I can just copy that onto a tape (once I get the cable to the tape drive repaired and ascertain that the tape drive, and the tape controller board I built, still work) and create boot and run floppies for you. Unfortunately, I pulled the wires loose to the connector to my PERQ's tape drive while moving the PERQs. I'm looking forward to hopefully being able to do all this, since you've made some good steps forward towards archiving software from PERQ tapes (thanks!). -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri May 7 19:53:28 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <10405072355.ZM1176@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <10405072355.ZM1176@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040507174744.F70270@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 7 May 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > So our discussion a few weeks ago about film resolution was relevant > after all ;-) Look at some of the old work by Emmanuel Goldberg on the "Rapid Selector", particularly the parts that were lifted by Vannevar Bush for his "Memex". For lower data densities, consider punched tape. OR,... append your data to the "Stolen Altair" message! It will bounce and echo forever, coming back once every six months? Be sure to retain hardware, software, and knowledge of how to retrieve the data! You don't want to create another hard-sectored system that nobody knows how to read (such as Stonehenge)! From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 20:09:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: <682892ab4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: I think in this (as is usually the case) it came down to a financial decision. Vulcan wasn't making any money off TechTV, which is why they decided to sell. The sad fact is that TechTV only worked when there was an enormous tech boom and you had millions of wannabes watching so that they could keep up with all the latest tech trends. Now that the tech boom is over and all the carpet baggers have gone back to whence they came, there is also no longer a real market for TechTV. The only viewership they have now is the hardcore geeks, and that really isn't enough to carry an entire station, as the programming additions within the past year or so have demonstrated ("Conspiracies", "Anime Unleashed", etc.) What makes absolutely no sense, however, is why Comcast would buy the channel, then fire all the talent as well as the crew. Unless they pull some neat trick out of their ass, they just dumped all their viewership along with the staff. The reason people watched TechTV, aside from liking the live programs, is because they were loyal to the hosts, to whom there was an almost tangible relationship. What is Comcast thinking? Who knows. But from here and now, it looks like a really stupid, insane move. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cfandt at netsync.net Fri May 7 20:33:52 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) In-Reply-To: <10405040830.ZM1548@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040507174227.026e4120@pop3.norton.antivirus> This is great Pete, thanks very much. I printed and filed the index with my disks. In a month or two I may have time to fire up my Micro PDP-11 and see how they work. But first . . . Two more questions: 1.) Are the HELP.TXT files found on a couple of disks fairly detailed or are they rather terse? Is an XXDP manual online anywhere? I checked bitsavers.org already - just something on DEC/X11 extant. In one of those X11 manuals mention is made of an XXDP+ manual with an Order Number of AC-F348?-MC (Yes, there's a "?" printed in that number. See page three of http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP/AC-F055D-MC_X11crossRef.pdf .) 2.) Pete indicates these are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a microPDP-11/23. What functionality will they have on my 11/73 (or a 11/53 if I build one up from a heap of parts on hand)?? Thanks for your help on this folks. -Chris F. Upon the date 08:30 AM 5/4/04 +0100, Pete Turnbull said something like: >On May 3, 19:00, Christian Fandt wrote: > > I've got a set of DEC diagnostic floppies (RX50) and I don't have the > > decoding scheme at hand to figure out the part number and therefore >their > > usage. I don't know which machine these run on -- Micro PDP-11 or >MicroVAX. > > > > I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with >a > > heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same >time I > > got said uVAX II. > > > > Given the part numbers listed below could anyone tell me about them >(other > > than the obvious ;-) )? > > > > BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS > > BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 > > BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 > > BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 > > BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 > >These are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a microPDP-11/23. > >Here's a listing from my set: > >DIR DU1: (CZXD1B1 Field Service Tests 1) > >ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION > > 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? > 2 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000100 ?.? > 3 HMDLD1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000130 ?.? > 4 HMDXC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000151 ?.? > 5 HMDYC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000172 ?.? > 6 HDDDC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000213 ?.? > 7 HDDKB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 2 000216 ?.? > 8 HDDLC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 4 000220 ?.? > 9 HDMMB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000224 ?.? > 10 HDMTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000227 ?.? > 11 HDMSB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000232 ?.? > 12 HMDQA1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000235 ?.? > 13 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000257 ?.? > 14 XTSAA0.OBJ 14-JAN-82 10 000263 > 15 HDDXB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000275 ?.? > 16 HDDYB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000300 ?.? > 17 HDKBB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000303 ?.? > 18 HDLPA0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000304 ?.? > 19 HDPDB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000305 ?.? > 20 XRQAB0.OBJ 1-OCT-83 18 000310 > 21 HDPTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000332 ?.? > 22 HELP .TXT 3-MAR-83 14 000333 <<<<<<< > 23 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000351 -- snippola -- NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From vp at cs.drexel.edu Fri May 7 20:56:29 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: HP 85-86 roms Message-ID: <200405080156.i481uTV3010071@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Olivier De Smet wrote: > I was wondering if it's possible to use rom dump as binary program > (loaded with loadbin), perhaps with some "relocations" ? Unfortunately this is not possible, unless you can disassemble the ROM and then reassemble the code with the desired "relocation" address (ORG). This is also the reason why HP-86/87 binary programs are incompatible with HP-83/85 machines and vice versa. A better bet is to try to find a programmable ROM drawer on eBay etc. Check also www.series80.org for other info on HP 85-86. Best Regards **vp From vp at cs.drexel.edu Fri May 7 21:06:43 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: IEM HP-IB devices (was Cool stuff!) Message-ID: <200405080206.i4826hbT010254@queen.cs.drexel.edu> "Joe R." wrote: > About a month ago I picked up what I thought were a couple of HP-IB > disk drives made by a compnay by the name of IEM of Ft. Collins Colorado. I have an IEM HP-IB tape drive (a 4400 series). I posted a similar request for info on cctalk a couple of months ago, but nobody responded. My box has an HP-IB to SCSI motherboard and an HP 4.0Gb DAT SCSI tape drive. > [...] It has a LCD > display on and it [...] There are also three buttons on it > marked Select, Next and Previous. Mine has the same panel and buttons. I tried your trick with the select button and it gave me a similar demo (nice trick, thanks). It claims to work with MPE and HPUX and to be compatible with the HP 7978 tape drive (and the C1511 whatever that is). Unfortunately, my Integral PC does not recognize this drive. I suspect that the motherboard for the tape drive is the same as the one in your optical jukebox, but with different ROMs. There is also a DIP switch in the back (for setting HP-IB address and various options) and a bunch of jumpers inside. I have no idea what they are supposed to do. If you want I can take a photo of the motherboard and send it to you. **vp From aw288 at osfn.org Fri May 7 21:09:20 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I think in this (as is usually the case) it came down to a financial > decision. Vulcan wasn't making any money off TechTV, which is why they > decided to sell. The sad fact is that TechTV only worked when there was > an enormous tech boom and you had millions of wannabes watching so that > they could keep up with all the latest tech trends. Now that the tech > boom is over and all the carpet baggers have gone back to whence they > came, there is also no longer a real market for TechTV. The only > viewership they have now is the hardcore geeks, and that really isn't > enough to carry an entire station, as the programming additions within the > past year or so have demonstrated ("Conspiracies", "Anime Unleashed", > etc.) Frankly, I never liked Tech TV, and very few of my hardcore geek friends liked it as well. I think viewership was really low all around. > What makes absolutely no sense, however, is why Comcast would buy the > channel, then fire all the talent as well as the crew. They could have purchased it just for the "license". While the cable channels are not regulated by the FCC like the broadcast stations, some companies (Infinity, Clear Channel, etc.) do this exact thing to independent radio stations just to get that "slot". It has nothing to do with the format, the employees, the listeners, or anything else, for that matter. Just the fancy bit of paper hanging on the wall. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ohh at drizzle.com Fri May 7 21:22:43 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: <682892ab4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: Regarding the death of TechTV... > > I'm sure if people wrote in en masse to suggest that G4/TechTV > > keep it's core tech-specific programming then that would make an impact. > This may sound a bit cynical but, well, don't be so sure... My experience of > these companies is that they ignore basically everything that their customers > say, unless it makes significant financial sense to listen. If they were > going to lose, say, 10,000 out of 1million viewers, they'd ignore every one > of the 10,000. If they were going to lose 750,000 out of 1mil, they *might* > listen. Which brings us neatly back to the "couch potato" mentality - "It's > on so I'll watch it, and I won't complain about the extortionate prices". This seems a good moment to mention one of those horrible little ideas most people don't like contemplating, especially when it's phrased this way: In television, the viewers are not the customers. The _advertisers_ are the customers. The viewers are... the product. :/ -O.- (Soylent Green _is_ people. ) From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 21:46:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > Frankly, I never liked Tech TV, and very few of my hardcore geek friends > liked it as well. I think viewership was really low all around. I never watched it regularly. However, I appreciated it because it was one outlet for me to exercise my TV star fantasies :) > They could have purchased it just for the "license". While the cable > channels are not regulated by the FCC like the broadcast stations, some > companies (Infinity, Clear Channel, etc.) do this exact thing to > independent radio stations just to get that "slot". It has nothing to do > with the format, the employees, the listeners, or anything else, for that > matter. Just the fancy bit of paper hanging on the wall. Yep, that's probably the case here. Oh well... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Fri May 7 21:54:33 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I never watched it regularly. However, I appreciated it because it was > one outlet for me to exercise my TV star fantasies :) I thought your TV star fantasy was to face Sakai in the artichoke battle. > Yep, that's probably the case here. Oh well... Basically, the broadcast and cable industries are pretty disgusting. Very disgusting, in fact. I rate Clear Channel worse than Microsoft. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri May 7 21:57:11 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: <10405080056.ZM1325@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040508025711.16349.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> already gone? vax, 3900 --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 7, 15:01, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > People who have been thinking about building an > IDE MSCP > > Qbus controller may find these two manuals > interesting: > > > > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf > > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf > > We also mentioned DEC's UDA50 Programmer's > Documentation Kit a while > ago. I had a chance to play with a new scanner at > work today, so I've > provided scans of all three documents in the set, as > TIFFs and PDFs. > Due to lack of space I can't keep them there very > long, but for the > moment they're at > > http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pnt1/MSCP/ > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri May 7 23:50:26 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? Message-ID: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? How do I load it again? Directory list? the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my commands? Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't see anything on DOS sites. Thanks! From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 01:07:30 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> Message-ID: <200405080609.CAA11088@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org [...] > The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs > that dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) I run no webserver and don't want to change that. But depending on how much space is required, I tentatively volunteer to run an FTP-access mirror - or even just a disaster-recovery backup of it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From nico at farumdata.dk Sat May 8 01:24:36 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405071924.MAA28370@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000e01c434c5$24a0b4d0$2201a8c0@finans> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > I store my valued information on as many storage types as I can. > There are practical limits for me. I try to get others to duplicate > what I have ( with limited success ). What if my house burned. > What if the roof fails and the rain comes in. What if I die. > What if, what if.... > We are solidly into the "Lost Information Age". --- AMEN ! Even the States Archives do not realise the problem, although I've told them time and time again. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 From nico at farumdata.dk Sat May 8 01:27:48 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup References: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002701c434c5$955d5520$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a > tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. > Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can > provide the DDS or DLT tape. Denmark good enough ? Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 01:49:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405080659.CAA11273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Oh, it's a Kriz tablet (after Stan Kriz at 3 rivers). > I have never fully understood how they work either. The 'wires' in > the PCB carry electrical currents, and are sequenced in some way by > the microcontroller. The puck/pen contains a pickup coil, the output > of which is amplified and fed back to the microcontroller. [...] > And the resolution is _much_ higher than the spacing between the > 'wires'. Much. The manual documents resolution settings as high as 20 counts per mm; experimenting with it, I find it actually includes settings that appear to attempt 1000 lines/inch and 1000 lines/mm, based on dividing full-scale counts by pad size (in-my-head estimates; I could be out by a factor of two or so). Of course, I doubt it's accurate to anything like ?1 count at those settings. :-) Actually, it's not accurate to ?1 count even at the documented settings. I find that when I turn on stream mode and don't move the puck, I get a stream of identical samples. If I turn on request mode and request reports (at human typing speeds), I get identical reports - but they are a few counts different from the reports I get in stream mode. I conjecture that there is some kind of residual carryover when doing two readings in quick succession, as stream mode does.... > One day I'll disassemble the microcontroller ROM and make sense of it > all... Mine has a 27xxx-series UVEPROM (2732, I think it was), and it's socketed. I'm very tempted to pull it and dump it, and see how much of a schematic I can extract from the pcb (the only real problem is component-side etch runs that run under components). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From nogard at cishollywood.com Fri May 7 17:30:02 2004 From: nogard at cishollywood.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen Message-ID: <200405072247.i47Mlfhc031273@huey.classiccmp.org> Bought one of Ebay recently, but it comes without software. Was wondering if anybody might be able to provide it to me in some form? Thanks, Christopher Ryan From stokesp at earthlink.net Fri May 7 18:06:36 2004 From: stokesp at earthlink.net (Peter Stokes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: FS: Franklin Ace 2200 CPU Message-ID: <409C167C.4010507@earthlink.net> A while ago I retrieved a Franklin Ace 2200 from a neighbour who was throwing it out. Well most of one, anyway. I have the CPU and the joystick. No keyboard, no screen. The computer is clean and while I obviously can't really tell, it appears to boot. I believe it has 128K RAM (8 4164 chips on a riser card and 8 3764s on motherboard). No expansion cards. There was a floppy in each drive; when you power it up it beeps and disks spin and click away for a while like it's loading its DOS. I know next to nothing about this system, and don't want to get into diagnosing anything... Until finding this one I knew them only from cheesy Byte ads when I was 10. I grabbed this one for good obsolete computer karma, so someday when my Atari 800XL craps out I hope there'll be someone who snagged one from a neighbour for a dollar back when neighbours still had those things, and I'll pay him well. Five bucks plus shipping (your choice). It's built like a tank, so the shipping is not going to be free. If you live around Boston MA you can come get it. Respond by direct e-mail: I don't normally read this mailing list, it was suggested to me by another old computer enthusiast. Enjoy and good day, Peter. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri May 7 20:56:26 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Life with PDP-11's. Message-ID: <200405080156.VAA3265607@shell.TheWorld.com> >Nothing like walking across the parking lot with the system disk in one >hand and the backup copy in the other. I was careful not to drop either >pack. I joined the RT-11 development team in 1978... and got my first office in the mill. At that time we had a lab full of systems where we did our development and testing. Occasionally there were fire alarms and evacuation drills at the mill. It was not unusual to see a bunch of us with our RK05 (or RL01,02) disks which contained the most recent RT sources, out in the parking lot. The first thought many of us had when the alarms went off was to power down the drive and get the disk... then calmly exit the building...:-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pzachary at sasquatch.com Fri May 7 22:05:25 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49351.216.218.236.136.1083985525.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> Take the case off and scrub with something pretty harsh, I use bon-ami but comet works too, this will take off much of the yellow/oxidized plastic then dry and armorall or equiv. keys, remove and wash as dishes, perhaps some simple green and a light alchohol rinse. I would be very carefull about contact cleaner, some of it will soften keycap plastic/ attack the lettering (I've wound up with unlabled keys) there are a range of cleaners, I've been running through several restoring a bunch of hardware that sat outside for 15 years! puretronics contact cleaner (puretronics.com) states that it is safe on plastics but test on an inconspicuous spot first (hmm..) deoxit (caig.com) is what all the sound guys around here use on mixing boards,etc. One of the pricey ones but seems like it might be worth it check the website but I've been using deoxit-D5 as a cleaner, the puretrinics as a rinse for parts I can't get at, then follow with caig progold... congrats on a really fine terminal. Pavl_ > What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? > The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit > dirty and stick when pressed. > > Ashley From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 02:03:26 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 Message-ID: <200405080833.EAA11445@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. It was sold "tel quel" ("as is"), so it was a bit of a gamble, but I figured if it was broken it'd be even more fun 'cause then I would feel no compunction about opening it up and Investigating. The battery pack appears dead (based on a 1kohm/volt voltmeter, it's producing about .1V) and it didn't come with a wall wart. But the battery pack was visibly made up of four cells, so I figured four rechargeable cells is probably about 5V - and the external power connector is marked 5V. So I hooked it up to 5V from a peecee power supply (peecees are good for _something_; they provide me with power supplies :), and it seems to be in full working order. Even the printer works (though the ribbon appears a little enfeebled). All I need to do is find a manual for the thing. Anyone know of one? Google found me a few places _selling_ scanned copies of the manual, but none civilized enough to have it up for fetching. The thing cost me all of five bucks. :) Maybe not quite on a par with an ASR33, but it's also a lot easier for me to find space for. As yet I may be but a dilettante when it comes to old computing gadgets, but *I* think it has a healthy dose of gamish! /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 05:44:01 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup In-Reply-To: "Nico de Jong" "Re: slightly OT: tape backup" (May 8, 8:27) References: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002701c434c5$955d5520$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <10405081144.ZM1965@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 8, 8:27, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Pete Turnbull" > > Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a > > tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. > > Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can > > provide the DDS or DLT tape. > > Denmark good enough ? If no-one closer offers, yes :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 05:41:22 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt "Re: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing)" (May 7, 21:33) References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.2.1.1.2.20040507174227.026e4120@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <10405081141.ZM1962@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 21:33, Christian Fandt wrote: > This is great Pete, thanks very much. I printed and filed the index with my > disks. In a month or two I may have time to fire up my Micro PDP-11 and see > how they work. But first . . . > > Two more questions: > > 1.) Are the HELP.TXT files found on a couple of disks fairly detailed or > are they rather terse? They won't help much with individual diagnostics, but they do tell you how to do things in general. > Is an XXDP manual online anywhere? Some time ago (about 11 years) I created a document about how to use XXDP; it's called "Notes for XXDP+ and XXDP V2 Operating Systems" and it's at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ In fact, IIRC, I put that doc on the web in response to a request from you (Christian) several years ago :-) There are PostScript and (thanks to the kind services of another listmember, Bill King) PDF versions. It's also mirrored on at least one other site which also has some XXDP info. XXDP is an enhanced version of the original XXDP (there's also one we used to refer to as XXDP++, but I'm not sure either name was offical), and V2 is what came out with the later microPDP-11s. V2 is a bit friendlier. The document consists of notes I made in the mid-80s when I was on a DEC maintenance course, plus reformtted stuff from the V2 files. So long as you remember that much of it uses the V2 commands, and replace them with the V1 equivalent, it will be useful. The one thing I never got round to doing -- because I have it on paper,in various forms -- is a list of *exactly* what each diagnostic is. There's a partial (very incomplete) list at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/pdp11/xxdp25.notes.txt See also http://starfish.osfn.org/rcs/pdp-11/xxdp/ Will Kranz also had some stuff -- he was working on how to completely decode an XXDP disk, but his site at earthlink has disapeared. > I checked > bitsavers.org already - just something on DEC/X11 extant. In one of those > X11 manuals mention is made of an XXDP+ manual with an Order Number of > AC-F348?-MC (Yes, there's a "?" printed in that number. See page three of > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP/AC-F055D-MC_X11crossRef.pdf .) I've never seen that, though I'm sure it will exist somewhere. If nowhere else, it should be at the front of any complete set of XXDP microfiche. > 2.) Pete indicates these are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a > microPDP-11/23. What functionality will they have on my 11/73 (or a 11/53 > if I build one up from a heap of parts on hand)?? Actually I think they are XXDP V2, now that I think about it (I don't have a system with an RX50 on it at the moment, to check). They'll test most of the basic hardware in the machine. Read the document and the list I referred to; it'll let you work out what hardware the tests are for. But to actually use certain of them effectively, you really ought to have the listings of the individual diagnostics. They don't all print nice messages; sometimes you need to know what the "switch settings" are to make them do certain things, sometimes they just halt on error and you can't tell what happened unless you can look up the error address in the listing. For example, for the ZKMA memory test: bit 15 set = halt on error bit 14 set = loop in selected subtest (see bits 0-3) bit 13 set = don't print errors bit 12 set = enable memory management bit 11 set = enable parity testing (default is ignore parity bits) bit 10 set = halt after each sub-test bit 9 set = don't do program relocation (so it can't test all of memory) bit 8 set = test in blocks of 4K, and print the first failing bit in each block bit 7 set = enable "long galloping test" (takes a while :-)) bit 6 set = don't size the memory (normally the diagnostic tries to work out how much memory there is to test) bit 5 set = don't print "END PASS xx" (normally does this every time round the loop) bit 4 set = don't print anything bits 0 to 3 are used to select a single subtest. See bit 14. Machines used to come with paper listings (though I think that practice stopped around the time of microPDP-11s) and some sites had the set on microfiche (one and a half boxes about 15" deep, so it's a LOT of microfiche for the whole set). We've discussed this on the list several times before. Maybe I should dig out the rest of my XXDP paper notes and scan them :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 06:50:51 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: SHAUN RIPLEY "Re: qbus mscp ctlr manuals" (May 7, 19:57) References: <20040508025711.16349.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10405081250.ZM2110@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 19:57, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > already gone? Drat! Sorry about that, in my haste at the end of the day, I got the file permissions for external access wrong (and a couple of the links). The links should work now. Several people mailed me privately to tell me; you're all welcome to make copies/backups/mirrors/whatever. I also didn't have time yesterday to find a copy of tiffcp and convert the big g3-compressed TIFFs to g4-compressed. I've done that now; sometime shortly after 1300 BST today (Saturday) I'll change the index.html file to point to the g4-compressed TIFFs, which are *much* smaller (a factor of 3). > --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > > We also mentioned DEC's UDA50 Programmer's Documentation Kit a > > while ago. I had a chance to play with a new scanner at work > > today, so I've provided scans of all three documents in the set, > > as TIFFs and PDFs. Due to lack of space I can't keep them there > > very long, but for the moment they're at > > > > http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pnt1/MSCP/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat May 8 07:37:55 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Microvax 3100-95 SCSI oddity Message-ID: Folks, Spent a day troubleshooting this one so I'm wondering if any of you have come across this before: 3100-95 with internal SCSI set at ID 7. Give it a boot disk at any free ID and another device (doesn't matter what) at ID 6. At the dead sergeant prompt all the devices are visible, but boot VMS 7.2 and whatever device you have at ID 6 is not seen unless it's the boot disk itself in which case it shows up as DKA600. Is there something hard-coded into VMS for MicroVAX 3100s that always assumes the SCSI controller is at ID 6 no matter what? I know that older 3100s always had the controller at 6 and I don't remember it being changeable.... Most odd :) Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 8 07:09:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup In-Reply-To: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040508080928.008ae100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Pete, I think I have a couple of Exabyte 8200 drives laying around if you want one and are willing to pay shipping from the US. Joe At 12:05 AM 5/8/04 +0100, you wrote: >Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a >tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. Ultimately I need it >transferred to a hard disk but DAT (DDS or DDS2) or DLT (anything that >can be read on a DLT7000) would be an excellent intermediate step. > >Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can >provide the DDS or DLT tape. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 8 07:35:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <200405080833.EAA11445@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:03 AM 5/8/04 -0400, you wrote: >I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. It was sold "tel >quel" ("as is"), so it was a bit of a gamble, but I figured if it was >broken it'd be even more fun 'cause then I would feel no compunction >about opening it up and Investigating. > >The battery pack appears dead (based on a 1kohm/volt voltmeter, it's >producing about .1V) and it didn't come with a wall wart. But the >battery pack was visibly made up of four cells, so I figured four >rechargeable cells is probably about 5V - and the external power >connector is marked 5V. It should be marked 8 volts. The charger for them has an 8 VAC 3VA output. The original chargers are a bit hard to find but the later chargers that were used for nearly all of the HP-IL devices such as the HP 82161 casssette tape drive, 9114 disk drive, various data converters such as HP-IL to HP-Ib, HP-IL to RS-232 and HP-IL to GPIO converters work perfectly with the HP-97. The same charger is used for the HP 91, HP 92, HP-71 and HP-75 and for the HP-41s with the rechargeable battery packs. The model number of that charger varies according to what AC outlet it fits but here in the US it's a model HP 82059. I routinely find them in surplus stores in the US and there are plenty of them on E-bay. So I hooked it up to 5V from a peecee power >supply (peecees are good for _something_; they provide me with power >supplies :), and it seems to be in full working order. Even the >printer works (though the ribbon appears a little enfeebled). There is no printer ribbon. it uses thermal paper. The biggest problem with the printer is that the paper feed mechanism wears out and it can't be fixed. > >All I need to do is find a manual for the thing. Anyone know of one? Nope, the original manuals are collector's items and I'd be surprised to find one on-line. The HP Museum sells a set of CDs with this and many other HP manuals for a very reasonable price. I'd recommend those unless you're willing to pay the price for a real manual. >Google found me a few places _selling_ scanned copies of the manual, >but none civilized enough to have it up for fetching. > >The thing cost me all of five bucks. :) You can make a nice profit on E-bay :-) Maybe not quite on a par with >an ASR33, but it's also a lot easier for me to find space for. As yet >I may be but a dilettante when it comes to old computing gadgets, but >*I* think it has a healthy dose of gamish! BTW you do know that the slot on the LH side is for a mag card reader don't you? The reader in it is almost certainly gummed up due to deteriorated feed wheel but they can be fixed. It uses the same cards as the HP 412 card reader and the HP-65 and 67s. Joe > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From pcw at mesanet.com Sat May 8 09:06:51 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405080659.CAA11273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > Oh, it's a Kriz tablet (after Stan Kriz at 3 rivers). > > > I have never fully understood how they work either. The 'wires' in > > the PCB carry electrical currents, and are sequenced in some way by > > the microcontroller. The puck/pen contains a pickup coil, the output > > of which is amplified and fed back to the microcontroller. > [...] > > And the resolution is _much_ higher than the spacing between the > > 'wires'. > > Much. The manual documents resolution settings as high as 20 counts > per mm; experimenting with it, I find it actually includes settings > that appear to attempt 1000 lines/inch and 1000 lines/mm, based on > dividing full-scale counts by pad size (in-my-head estimates; I could > be out by a factor of two or so). Of course, I doubt it's accurate to > anything like ±1 count at those settings. :-) Most likely the relative signal levels of the 2 closest wires to the puck are measured and the position is then interpolated... Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 8 10:17:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > I never watched it regularly. However, I appreciated it because it was > > one outlet for me to exercise my TV star fantasies :) > > I thought your TV star fantasy was to face Sakai in the artichoke battle. I would lose with artichokes. Make it Salmon and I would whip his silly artichoke stuffing ass. > > Yep, that's probably the case here. Oh well... > > Basically, the broadcast and cable industries are pretty disgusting. Very > disgusting, in fact. I rate Clear Channel worse than Microsoft. I would have to agree with you there 101%. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 8 10:20:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen In-Reply-To: <200405072247.i47Mlfhc031273@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Chris Ryan wrote: > Bought one of Ebay recently, but it comes without software. Was wondering if > anybody might be able to provide it to me in some form? Hi Christopher. I have it but I don't know if I still know where it is. If someone else has this (the person who I provided it to before would be a good bet, if they chime in) then try to get it from them first as it'll take me a while to fulfill this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 8 10:51:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Need Bernoulli cartrige Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040508115128.0087b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hello, I'm working on an old Bering 8020RM HP-IB disk drive that uses a removable disk cartridge. I found that it uses a Bernoulli drive and it uses a 8" cartridge. I THINK the disk is 20Mb but I'm not sure. Does anyone have an old 8" Bernoulli disk that I can try in it? Joe From allain at panix.com Sat May 8 11:46:52 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: free: CIE CIT-101e User's Manual References: <200405080659.CAA11273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <001b01c4351c$112af1c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Have one of these terminals? Get the manual. Good appendices, illustrations, etc. Perhaps 200 pages. Get it before it goes to epay. John A. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 11:41:56 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: slightly OT: tape backup" (May 8, 8:09) References: <3.0.6.32.20040508080928.008ae100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10405081741.ZM2419@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 8, 8:09, Joe R. wrote: > I think I have a couple of Exabyte 8200 drives laying around if you want > one and are willing to pay shipping from the US. > At 12:05 AM 5/8/04 +0100, you wrote: > >Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a > >tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. Thanks for the offer. I think I'll pass on that, though (unless things change) as I've had a couple of offers in private email. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 11:51:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405081657.MAA12671@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. [...] >> and the external power connector is marked 5V. > It should be marked 8 volts. The charger for them has an 8 VAC 3VA > output. Maybe it's not a charger, then, but just a calculator power supply. It's fairly clearly maked "5 VOLTS 2 WATTS". Doesn't say whether AC or DC, even, which I found surprising. >> Even the printer works (though the ribbon appears a little >> enfeebled). > There is no printer ribbon. it uses thermal paper. Certainly not normal thermal paper. Most thermal paper will show a mark if I draw my fingernail across it when it's on a hard surface; I tried that with this paper and it does nothing. I haven't tried heating the paper, which of course is really the acid test. Also, the print started out light and got better, which is indicative to me of a ribbon that had a dried-out spot and has now moved to a better area. Perhaps I have a 97 with a rare ribbon print mechanism? :) I'll probably open it up, if only to convince myself what the external power _really_ should be (I've been connecting to the battery connector, not the external power connector) and, if DC, what polarity. I can look at the print mechanism when I do. I can also try heating the paper to see what happens. >> The thing cost me all of five bucks. :) > You can make a nice profit on E-bay :-) Nope, I never use ebay. :) > BTW you do know that the slot on the LH side is for a mag card reader > don't you? It took a while, but yes, I realized that eventually. It came with no cards, though - is it possible to make them with something like a piece of magnetic tape and some thin stiff plastic or some such, or must they be The Real Thing? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat May 8 10:44:09 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? In-Reply-To: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> from "Ron Hudson" at May 07, 2004 09:50:26 PM Message-ID: <200405081544.i48Fi96o014336@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >From: Ron Hudson > >I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. > >When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? > >How do I load it again? > >Directory list? > >the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my >commands? > > >Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - >I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't >see anything on DOS sites. > >Thanks! > You're in for a treat: http://www.atariarchives.org/ From chris at gsc-software.com Sat May 8 12:22:01 2004 From: chris at gsc-software.com (Chris Lind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Would you be interested in selling your book? Message-ID: Hi, I saw on a news group posting that you owned the book "How to build a working digital computer" by Edward Alcosser. Would you be interested in selling this book? I would also pay top dollar for a photocopy of the book. Thank you for your time, - Chris Lind From jpl15 at panix.com Sat May 8 13:15:03 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Trade RL02 'ready' button Message-ID: I have discovered a couple of RL02 (and other drives) 'READY' buttons, which also determine the drive's 'number' in the system, 0-3. I would like to trade a brand-new '3' button for a '1' button that is known good. I have several RL02 drives, all of them '0' devices. I'll pay shipping to you. Straight trade, no money involved. Cheers John From cannings at earthlink.net Sat May 8 12:37:13 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? References: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000701c43523$1b7841d0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Ron, The format is ( to do a LOAD ); LOAD "D1:Filename.BAS" Where D1 is the Disk Drive # ( 1 is the default ) Filename is the filename .BAS means it is a BASIC file format To do a "SAVE" just replace LOAD with SAVE. Hope this helps. Best regards, Steven Ron wrote; I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? How do I load it again? Directory list? the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my commands? Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't see anything on DOS sites. Thanks! From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 8 13:33:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Microvax 3100-95 SCSI oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, Witchy wrote: > Spent a day troubleshooting this one so I'm wondering if any of you have > come across this before: 3100-95 with internal SCSI set at ID 7. Give it a > boot disk at any free ID and another device (doesn't matter what) at ID 6. > At the dead sergeant prompt all the devices are visible, but boot VMS 7.2 > and whatever device you have at ID 6 is not seen unless it's the boot disk > itself in which case it shows up as DKA600. > > Is there something hard-coded into VMS for MicroVAX 3100s that always > assumes the SCSI controller is at ID 6 no matter what? I know that older > 3100s always had the controller at 6 and I don't remember it being > changeable.... Yes. Although you can set it at the >>>, you can safely assume that most software will reset it to 6 at driver init. Dont ask me why, I got bitten by it too, when trying to linking to 3100's together over SCSI. --f From aw288 at osfn.org Sat May 8 13:51:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ... his silly artichoke stuffing ass. That presentation would certainly gather all five points. OK, I'll shut up now. Everyone can tell what channel I stick to now... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sat May 8 14:04:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal Message-ID: I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird stuff they used to do back then! Anyway, this is a late 60s (probably) all transistor and core box, about five feet tall and 300 pounds. It takes standard tapes. I don't think the thing is completely working right now, as I can't get it to do much, and a light blinks as in "something wrong!". I have no docs on the thing. I should also say that the keyboard on this thing moved the bar as far as how bad human engineering can get. Anyway, I want to make it go away, so if anyone has stuff to trade (no micros, please - (cruddy) big stuff or docs are good) or has a little cash (were not talking much here folks - scrap value is probably only $100), we can deal. I can deliver to VCFeast or anywhere near NY/NJ/CT/RI. I could ship it as well, as I do have a sort of crate thing. Let me know! Please, I need the room! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 8 14:21:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > stuff they used to do back then! The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the surface. > I have no docs on the thing. I have a copy of the sales brochure that I found while going through several thousands documents at the Computer History Museum. > I should also say that the keyboard on this thing moved the bar as far > as how bad human engineering can get. Yep. > Anyway, I want to make it go away, so if anyone has stuff to trade (no > micros, please - (cruddy) big stuff or docs are good) or has a little cash > (were not talking much here folks - scrap value is probably only $100), we > can deal. I can deliver to VCFeast or anywhere near NY/NJ/CT/RI. I could > ship it as well, as I do have a sort of crate thing. How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few more still in existence. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Sat May 8 15:26:30 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: RL02 '3' button spoken for Message-ID: I've set up a trade with another Listmember who needs a '3' as much as I need a '1' - so Things have worked out well! Thanks to all who have responded so far! Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 15:15:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <200405080833.EAA11445@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 8, 4 03:03:26 am Message-ID: > > I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. It was sold "tel Nice toy!. I have 2 of them (and 4 HP67s, which is basically the same machine without the printer). > quel" ("as is"), so it was a bit of a gamble, but I figured if it was > broken it'd be even more fun 'cause then I would feel no compunction > about opening it up and Investigating. > > The battery pack appears dead (based on a 1kohm/volt voltmeter, it's > producing about .1V) and it didn't come with a wall wart. But the > battery pack was visibly made up of four cells, so I figured four > rechargeable cells is probably about 5V - and the external power Exactly. It's 4 sub-C NiCds in series. Don't throw out the old back, you need the plastic housing and metal contacts to rebuild it. > connector is marked 5V. So I hooked it up to 5V from a peecee power > supply (peecees are good for _something_; they provide me with power > supplies :), and it seems to be in full working order. Even the > printer works (though the ribbon appears a little enfeebled). The printer is thermal, there's no ribbon as such. Probably the thermal paper has 'gone off' with age (it does this). You will also need to rebuild the roller of the magnetic card reader (that's the slot just to the left of the display). > > All I need to do is find a manual for the thing. Anyone know of one? Buy the Museum of HP Calculators CD-ROM set (http://www.hpmuseum.org/ and follow the links). It cost me $42 for the 7 disks including shipping to England, and I think this is a bargain. On these you'll find the user manual, the _service manual_ (one of the few service manuals that is there), many of the solution books (books of user-written progrmas, etc). If you're interested in HP calculators at all, you need these CDs. I don't normally like manuals on CD, but I really think these are excellent! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 15:30:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 8, 4 08:35:32 am Message-ID: > There is no printer ribbon. it uses thermal paper. The biggest problem > with the printer is that the paper feed mechanism wears out and it can't be > fixed. The last HP97 I got had this problem. The printer can be taken apart (there's an exploded diagram in the service manual), and the roller removed. It's got those well-known silicone rubber tyres on the ends. I was thinking of cutting them off and using silicone rubber tubing to replace them. But before I went to all that trouble, I tried rubbing them will 1000 grit wet-n-dry paper, just to take the glaze off them. Worked fine... When it goes again, I'll probably have to renew them, though. -tony From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat May 8 15:51:52 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? In-Reply-To: <000701c43523$1b7841d0$6401a8c0@hal9000> References: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <000701c43523$1b7841d0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <88A0BA3C-A131-11D8-9EF3-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Thanks Steve and Martin. On May 8, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Steven Canning wrote: > > Ron, > > The format is ( to do a LOAD ); > > LOAD "D1:Filename.BAS" > > Where D1 is the Disk Drive # ( 1 is the default ) > > Filename is the filename > > .BAS means it is a BASIC file format > > To do a "SAVE" just replace LOAD with SAVE. Hope this helps. > > Best regards, Steven > > > > Ron wrote; > > > I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. > > When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? > > How do I load it again? > > Directory list? > > the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my > commands? > > > Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - > I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't > see anything on DOS sites. > > Thanks! > > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 8 17:17:15 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Apochryphal? References: Message-ID: <00dc01c4354a$e17045a0$18464ed5@geoff> I read out the tv listing to my wife and she said " Well I'm thinking "The wizard of Oz " ". I'll see if I can get her some part time work on a tv guide. Geoff. From esharpe at uswest.net Sat May 8 19:41:56 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal References: Message-ID: <001101c4355e$6e8e8b50$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> >>>>>How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron perhaps they lack vision! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Re: 7 track tape terminal > On Sat, 8 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > > stuff they used to do back then! > > The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. > Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. > > But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on > mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the > surface. > > > I have no docs on the thing. > > I have a copy of the sales brochure that I found while going through > several thousands documents at the Computer History Museum. > > > I should also say that the keyboard on this thing moved the bar as far > > as how bad human engineering can get. > > Yep. > > > Anyway, I want to make it go away, so if anyone has stuff to trade (no > > micros, please - (cruddy) big stuff or docs are good) or has a little cash > > (were not talking much here folks - scrap value is probably only $100), we > > can deal. I can deliver to VCFeast or anywhere near NY/NJ/CT/RI. I could > > ship it as well, as I do have a sort of crate thing. > > How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. > > Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and > mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few > more still in existence. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From beclassic at att.net Sat May 8 20:37:38 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (beclassic) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 Message-ID: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> I am just about ready to rid myself of the DEC equipment I have. I'm starting with the classic computer mailing list, but I may part the stuff out on e-bay. I want to preserve the equipment and related manuals, but I'm also not ready to just make a gift. The equipment was purchased in 1979 with updates in maybe 1981. It was used in my business and has only been moved once (Fall, 2001). It is now in my garage which is obviously not air conditioned. Most of the manuals and printed materials are in a storage room a few miles away in "conditioned" air. The computer was used primarily as a BASIC processor, but we also had compiled Dibol applications we developed (actually DBL). I have the mid-height (42") newer-looking cabinet containing the processor and dual RL01's. The dual RX01 unit is stand-alone, desk-top unit with matching exterior. The original basic unit was an 11T03 with an 11/03 processor. After a few years I swapped the processor to an 11/23 (dual size M8186): KDF11-AC with KTF11-AA makes the cpu a KDF11-AA. Also added KEF11-AA FPU to help my number crunching. Current memory is 256K (MSV11-LK). The monitor is a VT100 with an extra board for advanced video, plus a tilt-swivel stand (DEC version). I also have an LA120BA terminal unit with keyboard that I used as the wide-carriage printer. I generally used TSX and at one time had a time-sharing client using a proprietary program through a 1000 baud modem. I believe the latest RT11 I used was v.3B, but v.4 may also be there. I have the usual stuff that went with operating the machine: - printed docs ( box of paper ) for diagnostics, plus microfiche version - original diagnostics on RL01 - original manuals for each item (I think) - some hardware diagrams/schematics, along with installation booklets - 8-10 of the small paperback books of equipment from DEC - 4-5 large blue notebooks from DEC regarding operating system, etc. - maybe 9 RL01 disk packs in total - a few used RX01s - software - RT11, BASIC, Fortran?, TSX?, DBL? - some confusion in this since the distributions came from a third-party developer via RL01, not from DEC on distribution-type media. The CPU and memory seem fine. The bottom RL01 powers up but shows a fault light; the other works fine. Both RX01 drives work. The VT100 works fine. Haven't tried the LA120 lately. I recently hooked a PC as the console and used Kermit to transfer all the data on the RL01s. I have slowly been trying to separate my data from DEC data on the RL01s and do a wipe routine after, thus protecting client data. Maybe I'll only release half of the RL01s. I've infrequently reviewed the digest versions of this mailing list, but this is my first attempt to participate. I am switching from digest so that I can try to be responsive on-line (generally between 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm EST). Are other times more appropriate? I can also answer emails, generally within a half day. I can maybe get some pictures on-line, but most of the participants in this list know what they're dealing with. I'm in central South Carolina. bill bailey From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat May 8 21:05:57 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 References: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: <000b01c4356a$3cd95ca0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "beclassic" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 > I want to preserve the equipment and related manuals, so far so good >but I'm also > not ready to just make a gift. > hmmmmm bm From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat May 8 22:21:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 In-Reply-To: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: >>> I want to preserve the equipment and related manuals, but I'm also not ready to just make a gift. One way to do this is a "Low-Ball Auction". I have participated in a few of these and they are quite a blast. They are NOT a way to "really" make money, and usually occur at charity events or within small groups (civic, etc.). The way they work is an un-published price is set for each item along with a closing time (since this are usually done at an "event", closing time is often 1 hour before the end of the event). Sealed bids are placed for the valid duration. NO information about the number of bids placed or their amounts is released until the closing time. When the auction closes, the winner is the person who has placed the LOWEST bid that meets or exceeds the set price. To increase the "exictement" the bids for each item are often read in decending order down to the winner. It is quite fun to watch! The "seller" gets (at least) their asking price, but the actual price is determined by how much each interested party thinks the others think the item is worth to them. Don't know if this would work here on the list, but would be sure to be a big hit at VCFEast! Just an idea...... From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sat May 8 22:14:17 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Heathkit H8 emulators Message-ID: <000101c43573$b6f865e0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Things are jumping over at www.sebhc.org , with more than 70 members committed to the preservation of Heathkit 8-bit computers - come take a look. Several of us have tried unsuccessfully to get in touch with either Dave Shaw or Dave Wallace, both of whom created websites featuring H8 emulation, one Mac-based, the other Windows-based. While email addresses are available, no-one has had a recent response from either Dave. Can anyone on classiccmp provide some help - 1) working email addresses for Dave Shaw or Dave Wallace, or possibly for reviewers of their emulators, including Larry Bledsoe, Steve Novosad, Charles Horn, Neal Granroth, Stanley Webb, or Bob Myers; 2) did anyone download the emulator source or support files from Dave Shaw's defunct website? Any help appreciated! Jack From beclassic at att.net Sat May 8 22:42:09 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (bill bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 References: Message-ID: <006e01c43577$9dc91d40$0200a8c0@old3> Interesting idea the "Low-Ball Auction". I doubt that there will be enough people interested in this equipment to have any range of bids. Smaller pieces than the 42" cabinet might be more interesting individually, but I thought the "whole package" idea should be given a chance. I believe my location will be a problem due to shipping difficulties. [][][] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat May 8 23:01:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: LowBall Auction -was DEC 11/23... In-Reply-To: <006e01c43577$9dc91d40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: >>> >>> Interesting idea the "Low-Ball Auction". >>> >>> I doubt that there will be enough people interested in this >>> equipment to have any range of bids. Smaller pieces than >>> the 42" cabinet might be more interesting individually, but >>> I thought the "whole package" idea should be given a chance. >>> >>> I believe my location will be a problem due to shipping >>> difficulties. >>> Actually I agree that this particular transaction would not really be appropriate for this type of deal by itself.... ...but if a bunch of people could bring items like this to VCFEast..... Ps: I am sure there are a decent number of people here whould be interested in the whole item, especially if known to be basically working. Although I am primarily interested in PDP-8 and related, I worked on the 11/23 for most of its life (1981-1992) and would not mind getting my hands on that system if it were not for some recent severe cash limitations..... From beclassic at att.net Sat May 8 23:45:32 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (bill bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) References: Message-ID: <007b01c43580$7c681b20$0200a8c0@old3> The diagnostics with my 11T03 (now 11/23) included a "software bill of material" for Option Number ZJ278-RQ and the Option Title is LSI-11 BUS DIAG DOC/RLO1 KIT. This is a 4 page list of programs and titles. These are the programs for which listings are included in the 12" deep box of papers. I only have the indexes here at home - the box of paper is in a nearby storage room. But, two of the entries are: AC-F053A-MC CXQUAA0 DEC/X11 USER MANUAL AC-9093L-MC CZQXAL0 XXDP USR MANUAL so, Christian, I believe the ? position you mentioned is used to represent the version or revision level, and I suspect the XXDP was renumbered in what you are seeing. BTW, my memory says the fiche copies I have constitue less than 1" depth. Since I can put my hands on these copies, is there something I can contribute? From nico at farumdata.dk Sun May 9 00:30:00 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal References: Message-ID: <003201c43586$ac474c20$2201a8c0@finans> From: "William Donzelli" Subject: 7 track tape terminal > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > stuff they used to do back then! Back in 69-70, I was an operator in a shop where they used Mohawk data entry systems for (mainly) salary-related work. The model they used, only had 1 reel. The "used" part of the tape was just falling down into a drawer. The systems worked like shit (sorry to say so), as we had read errors on just about every tape we attempted to read. We read them on 9-track IBM drives. One day, IIRC, we started to read them (about 20 tapes or so), at 1600. We were supposed to be finished at 5-ish, but had to sweat through countless errors, cleaning cycles, etc. until we sort-of finished at 2100. Some tapes just couldnt be read, on any of the 5 drives we tried. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 From vrs at msn.com Sun May 9 01:16:57 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) References: <007b01c43580$7c681b20$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill bailey" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) > The diagnostics with my 11T03 (now 11/23) included a "software bill of > material" for Option Number ZJ278-RQ and the Option Title is LSI-11 BUS DIAG > DOC/RLO1 KIT. This is a 4 page list of programs and titles. These are the > programs for which listings are included in the 12" deep box of papers. > > I only have the indexes here at home - the box of paper is in a nearby > storage room. But, two of the entries are: > > AC-F053A-MC CXQUAA0 DEC/X11 USER MANUAL > AC-9093L-MC CZQXAL0 XXDP USR MANUAL > > so, Christian, I believe the ? position you mentioned is used to represent > the version or revision level, and I suspect the XXDP was renumbered in > what you are seeing. BTW, my memory says the fiche copies I have constitue > less than 1" depth. > > Since I can put my hands on these copies, is there something I can > contribute? > > From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun May 9 02:26:02 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? Poorly. Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our "adventure" is now up on my web site at: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html ** WARNING!! ** These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many disturbing images. You have been warned!! -- TTFN - Guy From edward at groenenberg.net Sun May 9 03:00:53 2004 From: edward at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <409DE535.9CA4308C@groenenberg.net> Well indeed, these pictures are not for the collectors among us with a weak health. Makes my rescue I made some time ago with Fred a 'beginners' rescue. Ed Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html > > ** WARNING!! ** > > These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many > disturbing images. You have been warned!! > -- > > TTFN - Guy -- edward@groenenberg.net | Collector of PDP-11's. http://www.groenenberg.net | Politici zijn vieze oplichters. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is crap. '97 TL1000S From torquil at chemist.com Sun May 9 04:44:12 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 Message-ID: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> Hello everyone, Recently, I met up with listmember Rick Murphy to take a beautiful VAXstation 3500 (KA650, QBus, RX50, DEQNA)in BA123 enclosure, along with VR290 monitor, puck mouse and keyboard, off his hands. (Allow me to commend him for being a good sport, I was ~30 minutes late ;)) It is a near flawless machine, except both of its RD53s are dead as doornails. The platter isn't stuck, but the opening up the drive tricks have all been tried. It powers up and then powers right back down. (But is at least detected, it seems) In any case, I am looking to make this thing work again. :) I am looking for any kind of Qbus goodies, specifically a SCSI card. If this is too rare an item, I am looking for a DSSI card. If this isn't an option either, I am looking for any RDxx drive. I am also looking for an RX22 drive, so that I can load a kernel off it and not have to worry with all that stuff, just simple, reliable NFS. :) Lastly (and this is a long shot), does anyone have a spare backdoor to the BA123 enclosure, or even just the hinge would do (mine is falling off). Any replies are appreciated, I can't wait to get this thing up and running as a full-time server. :) -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 9 04:45:57 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: Guy Sotomayor "Re: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley)" (May 9, 0:26) References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <10405091045.ZM3236@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 9, 0:26, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html Ow! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rick at rickmurphy.net Sun May 9 07:51:54 2004 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040509085042.01e6bff0@mail.itm-inst.com> At 03:26 AM 5/9/2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: >On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > >Poorly. > >Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our >"adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html This made me want to cry. A special place in hell must be reserved for people who would treat poor innocent computers like that. :-( -Rick From wacarder at usit.net Sun May 9 10:55:43 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I guess the only good thing about this is that at least these computers did not end up at the scrappers. It appears that there are numerous salvageable items in this lot. Maybe some other failing 11/40s will live again because of these neglected ones that were left out in the weather. It does look like things weather better in Sunny California than they do here in South Carolina. You would not want to see what they would look like if they had been sitting out in the weather here for 15 years. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Guy Sotomayor Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 3:26 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? Poorly. Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our "adventure" is now up on my web site at: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html ** WARNING!! ** These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many disturbing images. You have been warned!! -- TTFN - Guy From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun May 9 10:53:38 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) References: Message-ID: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: RE: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) > I guess the only good thing about this is that at least > these computers did not end up at the scrappers. It > appears that there are numerous salvageable items in > this lot. Maybe some other failing 11/40s will live > again because of these neglected ones that were left > out in the weather. It does look like things weather > better in Sunny California than they do here in South > Carolina. You would not want to see what they would > look like if they had been sitting out in the weather > here for 15 years. > > Ashley > In Ohio they would have been a rusty spot in the grass. I wonder what they were thinking having those units in a yard 15 years uncovered, maybe they were waiting on the scrap value to rise enough to be able to scrap them? From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun May 9 11:01:47 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> Torquil MacCorkle, III declared on Sunday 09 May 2004 04:44 am: > Hello everyone, Hi! :) > In any case, I am looking to make this thing work again. :) I am > looking for any kind of Qbus goodies, specifically a SCSI card. If > this is too rare an item, I am looking for a DSSI card. If this isn't > an option either, I am looking for any RDxx drive. SCSI cards are $200-$300ish for disk compatible ones on eBay, when they show up. After collecting a few QBUS things I got lucky and obtained one in a machine. A DSSI card should be cheaper (KFQSA/M7769), if you can find one and a drive. You could also try to find someone with a KDA50 and SDI drives (RAxx) or a third-party SMD controller and SMD drives, or ESDI controller and ESDI drives... there was one of those on ebay just about a week ago, but it went for more than I'd want to spend. For now, it'll probably be easiest for you to find some ST251s or ST225s, and although they're small, you might be able to get an old copy of VMS onto them. I'm sure you could get NetBSD to fit on a ST251. > I am also looking for an RX22 drive, so that I can load a kernel off > it and not have to worry with all that stuff, just simple, reliable > NFS. :) RX22? Do you mean an RX33? If so, you can make one from a TEAC FD-55GFR floppy drive. Some instructions are here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/rx33_1 I remember seeing better instructions somewhere else, but can't find them now. As far as a hard drive goes, you could find an ST225 (RD31) or ST251 (RD32), as those seem to be the easiest to find. You'll need to reformat them, which you can do using XXDP on a PDP-11 or TEST 70 on a VAXstation 2000. If you can find one but don't have either of the above, let me know and I'll see if I can help. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From esharpe at uswest.net Sun May 9 12:41:52 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal References: <003201c43586$ac474c20$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <000d01c435ec$ea1f2480$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> there really are not too many of these around...... they were scrapped by the pile load as many folk that re-used equipment for hobby purposes had no use for them. but..... they are indeed part of the history of things. ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:30 PM Subject: Re: 7 track tape terminal > From: "William Donzelli" > Subject: 7 track tape terminal > > > > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > > stuff they used to do back then! > > Back in 69-70, I was an operator in a shop where they used Mohawk data entry > systems for (mainly) salary-related work. The model they used, only had 1 > reel. The "used" part of the tape was just falling down into a drawer. The > systems worked like shit (sorry to say so), as we had read errors on just > about every tape we attempted to read. We read them on 9-track IBM drives. > One day, IIRC, we started to read them (about 20 tapes or so), at 1600. We > were supposed to be finished at 5-ish, but had to sweat through countless > errors, cleaning cycles, etc. until we sort-of finished at 2100. Some tapes > just couldnt be read, on any of the 5 drives we tried. > > Nico > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun May 9 13:07:35 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> <200405080609.CAA11088@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <004c01c435f0$819deb90$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? multiple mirroring is something that is a good idea for this great resource. if we were to loose it........ Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:07 PM Subject: Re: cd longevity > > This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org > [...] > > The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs > > that dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) > > I run no webserver and don't want to change that. But depending on how > much space is required, I tentatively volunteer to run an FTP-access > mirror - or even just a disaster-recovery backup of it. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Sun May 9 14:00:26 2004 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <004c01c435f0$819deb90$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> <200405080609.CAA11088@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <004c01c435f0$819deb90$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <409E7FCA.4060503@ox.compsoc.net> ed sharpe wrote: > what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? > > multiple mirroring is something that is a good idea for this great > resource. if we were to loose it........ Indeed. I'd be happy to run a UK mirror if wanted (actually, I'd be quite happy to run a UK mirror of any classic computer-related resource). I'm only on a 1Mbit connection, though, so wouldn't be able to have anything that's *too* bandwidth-heavy :) Plenty of drive space, though - currently > 90GB free. Dan From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 9 14:01:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> References: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> > > I guess the only good thing about this is that at least > > these computers did not end up at the scrappers. It > > appears that there are numerous salvageable items in > > this lot. Maybe some other failing 11/40s will live > > again because of these neglected ones that were left > > out in the weather. It does look like things weather > > better in Sunny California than they do here in South > > Carolina. You would not want to see what they would > > look like if they had been sitting out in the weather > > here for 15 years. On Sun, 9 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > In Ohio they would have been a rusty spot in the grass. I wonder what they > were thinking having those units in a yard 15 years uncovered, maybe they > were waiting on the scrap value to rise enough to be able to scrap them? Not quite. He got them from a dumpster. His employer had promised him office/storage space (contractually obligated, but amount not specified), but reneged. He had once planned to do something with the machines, but got overwhelmed with other problems, including rapidly decreasing storage space. We all spend more on storage than on housing. It's too bad that he didn't release the stuff sooner. BTW, although I was the one who passed on the offer to the list, it was the OTHER Fred who participated in the rescue. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From allain at panix.com Sun May 9 14:14:25 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <006601c435f9$d83fb880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this... > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html No special curses to the previous owners, I mean, they didn't scrap it. But major big thanks for your efforts. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun May 9 14:35:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Patrick's information is pretty complete. I'll mention that DSSI/RFxx _drives_ are easier to find than controllers, and for SDI/RAxx series both controllers and drives are not hard to find. Someone up in Massachusetts sold me a beautiful RA92 drive a year ago for $50, and seemed to have dozens more. Also I wouldn't be surprised if you could boot directly from the network, instead of a floppy, but not sure of that one. John A. From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun May 9 14:51:14 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200405091451.14291.pat@computer-refuge.org> John Allain declared on Sunday 09 May 2004 02:35 pm: > Also I wouldn't be surprised if you could boot directly from the > network, instead of a floppy, but not sure of that one. Yes, you can in fact, if you set up a mop boot server on something. I use a Debian Linux box with mopd installed to boot NetBSD on my VAXstation 3200 (basically a MicroVAX 3500 in a BA23). Of course, this requires a DEQNA or DELQA board, which should be easy to find on eBay for less than $20 (or from someone on the list). Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Sun May 9 15:29:17 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 Message-ID: <040509162917.14ae@splab.cas.neu.edu> The RD53s are toast, but is the controller O.K.? I'll lend you an RD54 with some version of VMS on it if you want to try to boot that way. Either way, I have a MVII with some RD54s on it (maxtor 2190s I believe) and maybe a loaner rqdx3. and we can talk about the back door also. BTW, I am coming up on my vacation, so I'll get back to you about the other qbus stuff I have, if you still want an LSI-11 flavor machine... Joe Heck And no, I haven't forgotten Curt, Steve and the many others who have asked about the "stuff" I am getting rid of. During the month of June when I am off from work, I'll get back to all the emails I saved about my equipment. From aek at spies.com Sun May 9 16:34:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405092134.i49LY0Io021685@spies.com> > what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? currently, on the order of 20gBytes, going up about 50mBytes/day From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun May 9 18:47:40 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Hyperions Message-ID: <002501c43620$15ce1fe0$6402a8c0@home> Over the years, I have been pretty successful in acquiring Hyperions. Actually the bulk of my collection is Hyperions. A recent letter to the group made me pause and think about the future of my Hyperions. I won't sell them but I would love to have them with someone who can sort out the hardware and the manuals and make the information available to those who are interested. At this point I have too much on my plate to do this myself. Trades will be considered but not outright sales. I've contacted a couple of the Canadian museums with an offer of this equipment but haven't been honored with a reply. Soooo, Canada is good but if they have to go to the states, so be it. No shipping though, only pick-up in Scarborough. Points for anyone who is interested in these units : 1. Are they of interest to someone who could pick them up in Toronto (Scarborough actually, 20 minutes from the CN tower.)? I won't ship them. 2. My original Hyperion, which I purchased and am keeping, does not boot so the others may be in the same condition and I already know that at least one of the storage towers has had some trace problems, if that's what you call them. There are about 6 complete units, one for parts and two storage towers that are about two by three feet and very heavy (maybe 50 pounds or more.) 3. I'd like to keep one set of manuals but there are doubles and triples of just about everything plus boxes of software and records from their original site which was a Canadian tech college. 4. There would have to be some agreement that this stuff wouldn't be sold as I was given all of it under the condition that I wouldn't sell it. If you have a museum and are interested in this stuff, that would be absolutely prime. 5. All of the material has to be kept together. I'm not going to piece it out. It has value both monetary and historically and I would love if it could be in a bricks and mortar museum somewhere. That's about it. Volume is probably a stretch mini-van full or a bit more. If nothing happens with this, I will obviously keep it all and hope my kids will be interested in it in about ten years. If you have some ideas, let me know at : antique101@hotmail.com I may add to this if I've forgotten anything important. bm From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun May 9 18:42:49 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405092134.i49LY0Io021685@spies.com> Message-ID: <409EC1F9.3060500@jetnet.ab.ca> Al Kossow wrote: >>what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? > > > currently, on the order of 20gBytes, going up about 50mBytes/day > > . > So how many DVD's is that? BTW I give CD's a good 15's of life in the microwave? Ben. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun May 9 18:57:48 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 References: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: <409EC57C.9C5BBC73@compsys.to> >beclassic wrote: > [Snip] > through a 1000 baud modem. I believe the latest RT11 I used was v.3B, but > v.4 may also be there. > I have the usual stuff that went with operating the machine: > - printed docs ( box of paper ) for diagnostics, plus microfiche version > - original diagnostics on RL01 > - original manuals for each item (I think) > - some hardware diagrams/schematics, along with installation booklets > - 8-10 of the small paperback books of equipment from DEC > - 4-5 large blue notebooks from DEC regarding operating system, etc. > - maybe 9 RL01 disk packs in total - a few used RX01s > - software - RT11, BASIC, Fortran?, TSX?, DBL? - some confusion in this > since the distributions came from a third-party developer via RL01, not from > DEC on distribution-type media. > [Snip] Jerome Fine replies: Since I switched to using RT-11 / TSX-PLUS and other PDP-11 software under these OSs using an emulator that runs 15 times as fast as a real DEC PDP-11/93, I don't really have much interest in the real PDP-11 hardware. And since I am a software addict, that suits me perfectly. BUT, I am attempting to preserve as much RT-11 / TSX-PLUS software as possible. I am in the last stages of getting V1-0 of a CD with 13 different distributions of RT-11 ready (from V1-15 to V05.03). So having access to as many of the old RT-11 distributions as possible is the goal. If possible, I would like a copy of all of the RT-11 / TSX-PLUS distributions, the operating systems and the layered products. Are there any RT-11 distributions among the media, including the BASIC, FORTRAN and DBL? Is there some way that you could copy them? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun May 9 20:55:07 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> John Allain wrote: > Patrick's information is pretty complete. I'll mention that DSSI/RFxx > _drives_ are easier to find than controllers, and for SDI/RAxx series > both controllers and drives are not hard to find. Someone up in > Massachusetts sold me a beautiful RA92 drive a year ago for $50, > and seemed to have dozens more. > > Also I wouldn't be surprised if you could boot directly from the network, > instead of a floppy, but not sure of that one. I have a MV-III with a DEQNA interface and RQDX3 w/RD54, and a MOP boot with all filesystems *and* swap on remote NFS partitions is considerably faster than running on the RD54. Doc From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun May 9 20:38:14 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405092134.i49LY0Io021685@spies.com> Message-ID: <004601c4362f$76975ad0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al; I sent an email to you or to the list, don't recall which - never got a reply, offering to provide a mirror of bitsavers. 20gb is a non-issue, and I have multiple 100mb feeds via ethernet. If you want to just let me know, no big deal either way. Jay From aw288 at osfn.org Sun May 9 22:49:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. > Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. Are you sure it was the "first" (good use of Quites, by the way)? I am pretty sure IBM had them for some time. > But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on > mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the > surface. I can look again, but I am pretty certain I saw only seven things on the head. I don't know if this is important, but these are ex-Western Union machines, and they liked to be difficult. Perhaps a special oder from MDS? > How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. Space. > Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and > mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few > more still in existence. I actually have two. I am getting rid of the "spare". William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun May 9 22:52:06 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: <003201c43586$ac474c20$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: > Back in 69-70, I was an operator in a shop where they used Mohawk data entry > systems for (mainly) salary-related work. The model they used, only had 1 > reel. The "used" part of the tape was just falling down into a drawer. The > systems worked like shit (sorry to say so), as we had read errors on just > about every tape we attempted to read. Sounds right! I have to wonder how many times tape was damaged by just falling into the slot improperly. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 9 23:48:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. > > Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. > > Are you sure it was the "first" (good use of Quites, by the way)? I am > pretty sure IBM had them for some time. Which is why I use quotes :) I've been around long enough to know you rarely (if ever) claim anything is the "first" of anything. This is as far as I know, without having researched it in depth. If you know of an earlier IBM product then I'd like to know about it. > > But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on > > mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the > > surface. > > I can look again, but I am pretty certain I saw only seven things on the > head. I don't know if this is important, but these are ex-Western Union > machines, and they liked to be difficult. Perhaps a special oder from MDS? Possibly. I haven't been able to get a good look myself. I tried removing a plate from the opposite end of the head block that I thought would allow me to peer at the head but there wasn't a hole where I thought there would be one. In the process, I dropped one of the screws for affixing the plate to the head block down the tape take-up bin. Nice. Now I have to go fishing for it with a magnetic tipped telescoping rod or something (I'm not going to try tipping this thing upside down to get it ;) > > How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. > > Space. The final frontier. > > Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and > > mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few > > more still in existence. > > I actually have two. I am getting rid of the "spare". Yep, worst cast put it on the VCM (or eBay if you must). Perhaps the Computer History Museum might want it... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Mon May 10 01:34:28 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Heathkit 3400 Microcomputer Trainer Message-ID: <409F2274.DCCFA0DE@rain.org> There is a Heathkit 3400 Microcomputer including manual up on Ebay with a starting bid of $30.00. It appears to be in the wrong catagory, so it might be missed by some: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1504&item=3814941860&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW From hansp at citem.org Mon May 10 01:55:30 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409F2762.3000600@citem.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Sun, 9 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > >>>The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. >>>Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. >>> >>> >>Are you sure it was the "first" (good use of Quites, by the way)? I am >>pretty sure IBM had them for some time. >> >> >Which is why I use quotes :) I've been around long enough to know you >rarely (if ever) claim anything is the "first" of anything. This is as >far as I know, without having researched it in depth. If you know of an >earlier IBM product then I'd like to know about it. > > ISTR reading somewhere that UNIVAC had these well before most other companies. [ Sounds of rummaging around google] http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/randy.carpenter/folklore/v5n1.html : No punched card devices were provided with the UNIVAC, so the UNITYPER data entry machine was developed. The data entry clerk typed on a keyboard, and the UNITYPER recorded the values on a reel of metal tape. This lack of integration with punched card systems became a marketing handicap. Many prospective customers already had significant investment in tabulating card systems. When IBM entered the computer business, it made sure that it offered computers that fit easily into existing card processing installations. To fill this gap, Eckert-Mauchly developed a stand-alone card-to-tape unit, which could process 100 cards per minute. Since Eckert-Mauchly was an independent company at the time the design of the card-to-tape converter was done, it naturally followed the market and built a machine that handled IBM's 80-column cards. Sometime after the acquisition by Remington Rand, a version to handle 90-column cards was developed. That would have to be in the early 50's.... -- HansP From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Mon May 10 05:43:28 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available References: <016401c43239$b8147690$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <409F5CD0.8040507@gmx.net> Hi Jay, got no answer off list, so I'm trying on list. Just a couple of days after your message my vt100 broke with ROM 2 error. So it doesn't sucessfully finish self test anymore. Do you still have some vt100 parts? Maybe the basic pcb? TIA Gerold Jay West wrote: > Tony wrote... > >>Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll >>fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same >>type of CRT). The swap is not hard. > > > That is exactly what I did, and why I have a vt102 without case, and an > empty vt100 case :) > > Jay From bernd at kopriva.de Mon May 10 09:47:31 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) Message-ID: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. The seller doesn't want to ship internationally (i asked him before, but got no response in time ...). Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of course for all expenses ! Thanks alot Bernd From mtapley at swri.edu Mon May 10 09:42:00 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues In-Reply-To: <200404301127.i3UBRcdl041907@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404301127.i3UBRcdl041907@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Update: At 14:14 -0500 4/29/04, Mark Tapley wrote: >1) Screen display is too far to the left. At 23:59 +0100, 4/29/04 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) replied: > On the back of the yoke are 2 metal plates. >Rotating them, either together or in oposite directios, will move the >picture (strictly the raster, but anyway..) around on the screen. Got the machine far enough apart to spot those and play with them yesterday. Sure enough, that fixed the screen-shift (and it's almost a certainty that I disturbed them when I took out the Elf Armor). FWIW, the plates are perpendicular to the path of the electrons in the CRT and more or less centered on that path near the back end of the CRT. They are circular (umm, annular? I can't see anything but a mm or two at the rim of the circle), and have little tabs at 2 locations 180 degrees apart. There are 2 plates, stacked together. They are "finger tight". I fooled with them while watching the image, but I used an insulated tool, so I didn't fool with them much. A slight twist (maybe 15 degrees) on one of them moved the image right where I wanted it. Thanks, Tony! Still in the to-do list: ordering a new rectifier (thanks, Chris!) against the day my CR5 dies (but it seems OK right now, picture is fine and steady) and borrowing an o-scope to see how much ripple is on the 5V line. And probably saving up for an ESR meter to test the caps around the connector that goes to the digital board, and probably getting a new capacitor or two. And retouching J4. After the picture adjust, coincidentally, machine ran fine for several hours yesterday (all the time I could spend on it). Love that BrainStorm! -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 10 09:56:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Don't know if this would work here on the list, but would be sure to be a > big hit at VCFEast! We could host it there. We can also host it on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon May 10 09:59:50 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Hi, > i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ woo hoo! > The seller doesn't want to ship lazy bastard > Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of course for all expenses ! Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it shipped? info - info - info! Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 10 10:01:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html > > ** WARNING!! ** > > These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many > disturbing images. You have been warned!! Those are some of the most interesting vintage computer pictures I've ever seen! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 10 10:06:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > In Ohio they would have been a rusty spot in the grass. I wonder what they > were thinking having those units in a yard 15 years uncovered, maybe they > were waiting on the scrap value to rise enough to be able to scrap them? Some people take the "Sunny California" canard a bit too seriously. I picked up an Imlac PDS-1D from an aerospace engineer in southern California a few years back. It'd been sitting outside against his house, under the eaves of the roof. At least it was mostly covered, but you'd expect an engineer to know better. He probably thought that since there's no humidity (and therefore no rusting) in space, there's was no problem in leaving a metal chassis outside. Talk about having your head in the clouds. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon May 10 10:12:09 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search Message-ID: \begin opinion Seems like the best method for very long term storage in theory is ion beam on iridium disk More practical methods include the following: I have also heard that using archival quality ink in a retrofitted ink jet printer printed on acid-free paper may work for reasonable amounts of time. The plastic ink particles in laser toner are very susceptible to environmental factors. I know that for land surveys that archival ink using a pen plotter on vellum is "best". \end opinion References http://www.uky.edu/~kiernan/DL/hedstrom.html Digital preservation: a time bomb for Digital Libraries. www.tims-im.ca/Whitepapers/22010v052p.pdf Preserving Information Forever and a Call for Emulators. Archives: Preserving Bits, Formats, Documents, and Wisdom www.berghell.com/ whitepapers/Archives%20-%20Preserving%20Bits,%20Formats,%20Documents,%20 and%20Wisdom.pdf - Mike From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 10 10:19:18 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search References: Message-ID: <16543.40310.119000.506477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike McFadden writes: Mike> I know that for land surveys that archival ink using a pen Mike> plotter on vellum is "best". What is "archival ink"? I'd agree if the ink used is "india ink" (carbon black based ink -- the classic stuff used in Chinese/Japanese calligraphy). At one point, pen plotters could accept drafting pens, such as the famous Rotring/Rapidograph. Fill one with india ink and plot on vellum, keep it try, and you should be ok for many centuries. Any other kind of ink I'd wonder about. paul From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon May 10 10:26:41 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search Message-ID: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. Sumerians did this 6000 years ago and their writings are still perfectly readable. MS From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 10 10:37:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 23:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The Atari TT030 is a *VERY* cool machine. The OS is in ROM, and it > is able to use standard SCSI drives (mine has a 1GB drive), and it > can be hooked up to a VGA monitor. I've got an 80MB drive from a Mac LCIII lined up to replce the 40MB drive in there with the bearing fault... assuming that SCSI drives for use with Apple machines work with everything else... > It uses FAT formated floppies, and IIRC, some or all have 1.44MB floppy drives. I dropped the machine off at the museum and then forgot to bring the hard drive back home with me to hook up to the Linux system and see if it has a FAT filesystem too - d'oh! > What do you mean by install media? Is some kind of software needed > to get it to recognize the HD? I'm not sure where the split is between what's in ROM and what's on the hard drive. When it starts up, it mentions loading the hard disk driver - which is presumably in ROM :-) Then it boots into a windowed environment (GEM?), but I'm not sure if that loads off the hard drive (in which case I'd like to get install media for that) or if that's also in ROM. I would have expected (particularly as it seems possible to run NetBSD on these things) that the OS was more character-based and primarily a collection of ROM-based library routines, and the desktop environment was loaded from disk, but I could easily be wrong there. Also when the hard drive was present but not spinning properly, the machine just sat there with a white screen - implying that it expected/needed the hard disk in order to boot into the window environment. What about formatting a new hard drive? Is the formatter in ROM? (In which case is there a low level setup type of routine in ROM I somehow access pre-boot?) Or is there a seperate floppy (which I don't have) which contains hard disk formatter / partitioner etc.? > As you mention, they aren't that common, and do fall between the ST > and the Falcon. The Falcon has the advantage of supporting more > colours, but the TT030 is about twice as fast. I am quite keen to get BSD on this. Not sure if that'd also allow me to also use the LAN port to connect to an Apple network or not, but there's always PPP over a serial link I suppose. Wonder if they can be dual-booted into BSD and a more traditional desktop enviroment.... cheers Jules From bpope at wordstock.com Mon May 10 10:31:22 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google In-Reply-To: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at May 10, 04 08:26:41 am Message-ID: <200405101531.LAA11559@wordstock.com> And thusly Michael Sokolov spake: > > The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a > tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. > Sumerians did this 6000 years ago and their writings are still perfectly > readable. > > MS > Now we just need to find a way to get more storage per square inch of baked clay. Cheers, Bryan From jpl15 at panix.com Mon May 10 10:40:52 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a > tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. > Sumerians did this 6000 years ago and their writings are still perfectly > readable. Hmmmmm.... not only a Cunieform Assembler, but the "printer" to form the raw clay, inscribe the tablets, and complete with an automatic kiln to bake 'em afterwards. This is obviously what .zip files were really meant for. "My, what a large file... over 300 megatabs and still growing!" Cheers Hamurabi From emu at ecubics.com Mon May 10 10:52:02 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <409FA522.6020405@ecubics.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: > The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a > tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. I tried to put this wet clay in a typewriter. What a mess ! ;-) From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 10:49:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: >** WARNING!! ** > >These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many >disturbing images. You have been warned!! No kidding, I feel like throwing up now. At least some of the boards were salvageable. As pointed out, in other area's they'd be a total loss. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 10:51:33 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> References: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: >We all spend more on storage than on housing. For those that this is true, it might be time to give some serious thought as to wether they should be in the hobby. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 10 11:13:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google References: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200405101531.LAA11559@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <16543.43570.324000.752698@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Bryan" == Bryan Pope writes: Bryan> And thusly Michael Sokolov spake: >> The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the >> information on a tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after >> which it becomes hard as rock. Sumerians did this 6000 years ago >> and their writings are still perfectly readable. >> >> MS >> Bryan> Now we just need to find a way to get more storage per square Bryan> inch of baked clay. See http://www.rosettaproject.org/live paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 10 10:53:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: References: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040510115340.0082e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> . Here's another one from the same seller. Joe At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > >> Hi, >> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >woo hoo! > >> The seller doesn't want to ship > >lazy bastard > > >> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of course for all expenses ! > > Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >shipped? > >info - info - info! > > >Cheers > >John > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 11:27:05 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: >I've got an 80MB drive from a Mac LCIII lined up to replce the 40MB >drive in there with the bearing fault... assuming that SCSI drives for >use with Apple machines work with everything else... I think Apple just added to what was there, I've used a 20MB Apple SCSI drive on a PDP-11 when I needed a drive that was physically smaller than 30MB to transfer some data. >I'm not sure where the split is between what's in ROM and what's on the >hard drive. When it starts up, it mentions loading the hard disk driver >- which is presumably in ROM :-) Then it boots into a windowed >environment (GEM?), but I'm not sure if that loads off the hard drive >(in which case I'd like to get install media for that) or if that's also >in ROM. The GUI and all of the basic OS are in ROM. I'm assuming that you can have some kind of OS extensions on the HD. Not really to sure, I'm not that familiar with TOS. >What about formatting a new hard drive? Is the formatter in ROM? (In >which case is there a low level setup type of routine in ROM I somehow >access pre-boot?) Or is there a seperate floppy (which I don't have) >which contains hard disk formatter / partitioner etc.? Good question, this is what I'm wondering myself. >I am quite keen to get BSD on this. Not sure if that'd also allow me to >also use the LAN port to connect to an Apple network or not, but there's >always PPP over a serial link I suppose. > >Wonder if they can be dual-booted into BSD and a more traditional >desktop enviroment.... I'm guessing that BSD is started from TOS on these systems somehow. I never got around to trying to install BSD or Linux on mine. IIRC, the Serial ports are wicked fast, you'd want to hook them up to something like 16550 UART's on a PC. There was a project to adapt the SCSI-to-Ethernet adapters for the Mac to work on these a few years ago, I don't know whatever happened with that. I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it better and faster for free. Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 have? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bernd at kopriva.de Mon May 10 11:32:41 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040510115340.0082e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405101645.i4AGj4hc051302@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, you're really very attentive :-) Bernd On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:40 -0400, Joe R. wrote: >&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW>. Here's another one from the same seller. >&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> > > Joe > > >At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>woo hoo! >> >>> The seller doesn't want to ship >> >>lazy bastard >> >> >>> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of >course for all expenses ! >> >> Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >>shipped? >> >>info - info - info! >> >> >>Cheers >> >>John >> >> >> From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 10 11:49:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 16:27, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >What about formatting a new hard drive? Is the formatter in ROM? (In > >which case is there a low level setup type of routine in ROM I somehow > >access pre-boot?) Or is there a seperate floppy (which I don't have) > >which contains hard disk formatter / partitioner etc.? > > Good question, this is what I'm wondering myself. if it does turn out to be FAT on the hard drive too then it's not a problem, as again I can use a Linux system to format a drive as FAT. Whether it'd be a PC-style partition table is another matter though! > I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these > systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it > better and faster for free. It's just nice as a museum exhibit though, if we're able to show it running both a windowing environment and a real Unix with networking too. Worst-case I assume the system boots from SCSI target 0, so I could have both an internal and external disk hooked up, one with the standard TT filesystem on it and one with BSD - then just have a switch which is set prior to turning the machine on which decides which is target 0 and which is (say) target 1. > Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 have? Ahh, 'only' 4MB on this one I think. Just enough for running BSD I believe though. I did come across some info on the web on how to increase the memory in them, but there's too much work to be done on other things to justify spending a huge amount of time messing around with this! cheers Jules From aek at spies.com Mon May 10 11:53:47 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <004601c4362f$76975ad0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200405101653.i4AGrlxw013898@spies.com> I would be interested. probably easiest to make a set of 5 dvd-r's to start From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 10 12:00:17 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available References: <016401c43239$b8147690$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <409F5CD0.8040507@gmx.net> Message-ID: <003c01c436b0$45864d30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sorry, haven't had a chance to really go through inbound mail for a few days... I'm so sick of work getting in the way of my hobby. I keep eyeing that 50 year retirement goal. Course it'll be hard to find new classics in 10 years I bet :) I'd just about give my left arm to really make enough at the hobby to just do it full time and quit work. Hey, I can dream. I should have a spare logic board. I'm off work Monday through Wednesday of this week. So goal 1 is to go through the vt100 post responses and get everything shipped/disposed of. I'll let you know tonight or tomorrow. Was up till 3:30am dealing with work stuff so I'm not sure I would recognize a vt100 in my condition heh. Back at ya later. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerold Pauler" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:43 AM Subject: Re: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available > Hi Jay, > > got no answer off list, so I'm trying on list. > > Just a couple of days after your message my vt100 > broke with ROM 2 error. So it doesn't sucessfully > finish self test anymore. > > Do you still have some vt100 parts? > Maybe the basic pcb? > > TIA > Gerold > > Jay West wrote: > > Tony wrote... > > > >>Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll > >>fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same > >>type of CRT). The swap is not hard. > > > > > > That is exactly what I did, and why I have a vt102 without case, and an > > empty vt100 case :) > > > > Jay > > > From allain at panix.com Mon May 10 12:21:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org><007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I have a MV-III with a DEQNA interface and RQDX3 w/RD54, > and a MOP boot with all filesystems *and* swap on remote NFS > partitions is considerably faster than running on the RD54. My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI -> SDI and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, leading to the 3520 and '40. (going out on a limb now) I would actually be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with MFM drives. Perhaps TMaC's system was customised by a prior user? John A. From arcarlini at iee.org Mon May 10 12:45:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002d01c436b6$943d2740$5b01a8c0@athlon> > My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI > -> SDI and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, > leading to the 3520 and '40. (going out on a limb now) I > would actually be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with > MFM drives. Perhaps TMaC's system was customised by a prior user? There was a low-end VS3500 that shipped with an RD5x drive: it was called the VAXstation 3200. It came in a BA23 box IIRC. Anyone who considered a VS3500 a performance machine (even when it came out) was on something or in someone's pay or utterly clueless :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 10 12:22:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <200405101645.i4AGj4hc051302@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040510115340.0082e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040510132206.00936540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bernd, I use E-bay A LOT! I can forward the stuff to you. Do you still have my address? If anyone is closer to the seller and can pick up the item in person (it's in Washington somewhere) and then ship it to you it might save you having to pay for shipping twice but if no one is closer you can have them ship it to me here in Florida and I'll forward it on to you. Joe At 06:32 PM 5/10/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Joe, >you're really very attentive :-) > >Bernd > >On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:40 -0400, Joe R. wrote: > >>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW>. Here's another one from the same seller. >>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> >> >> Joe >> >> >>At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>woo hoo! >>> >>>> The seller doesn't want to ship >>> >>>lazy bastard >>> >>> >>>> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of >>course for all expenses ! >>> >>> Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >>>shipped? >>> >>>info - info - info! >>> >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>> > > > > From bernd at kopriva.de Mon May 10 13:39:58 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040510132206.00936540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405101851.i4AIpvhc052037@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, yes i still have your adress (if it's still the same as in March 2003) :-) ... I made a quick comparison of shipping costs from Gaithersburg, MD 20879 to Florida and Northern Nevada (hi John :-)) ... ... and Florida seems to be a little bit cheaper (if i made no mistake). I didn't think, that the distance has any importance, as shipping costs within germany depend only on weight (and sometimes on size). ... so anyone, who can save me some shipping costs is invited ! Thanks to all, who have already responded ! Bernd On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:22:06 -0400, Joe R. wrote: >Hi Bernd, > > I use E-bay A LOT! I can forward the stuff to you. Do you still have my >address? If anyone is closer to the seller and can pick up the item in >person (it's in Washington somewhere) and then ship it to you it might save >you having to pay for shipping twice but if no one is closer you can have >them ship it to me here in Florida and I'll forward it on to you. > > Joe > >At 06:32 PM 5/10/04 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi Joe, >>you're really very attentive :-) >> >>Bernd >> >>On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:40 -0400, Joe R. wrote: >> >>>>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW>. Here's another one from the same seller. >>>>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>>At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>woo hoo! >>>> >>>>> The seller doesn't want to ship >>>> >>>>lazy bastard >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of >>>course for all expenses ! >>>> >>>> Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >>>>shipped? >>>> >>>>info - info - info! >>>> >>>> >>>>Cheers >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> From marvin at rain.org Mon May 10 13:37:10 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: VCM Listings Message-ID: <409FCBD6.9430FAF7@rain.org> Just a heads up; I have started to list stuff on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. The things being listed are what I can easily get to right now :). http://marketplace.vintage.org/ Besides what I am listing, there are some other interesting things there! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 15:49:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Proof of concept Message-ID: <200405101853.i4AIrEss019152@mail.ezwind.net> The sample is attached! From zmerch at 30below.com Mon May 10 14:09:06 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton Hamvention this year, taking off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... staying until Sunday morning/noonish, I believe. Any good things to see/do/visit/eat/drink whilst I'm there? Thanks, and who knows? Maybe I'll finally meet someone else on the list "like, in person, eh?" ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Mon May 10 14:22:02 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: FA: Collection of Otrona Attache Parts -- Complete System? Message-ID: <00d401c436c4$1260f310$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> I collected a number of Otrona parts over the years with the intent of reassembling them into a working system, but that hasn't happened, and I think other interests are going to keep me from ever spending the time it needs. I think almost everything you need to build a basic working system is here. I have the following items available, up at auction on the Vintage Computer Marketplace... http://marketplace.vintage.org/bid.cfm?ad=727 All items are completely and totally untested. Links to photos are on the listing at the link above. * Six CPU boards, "pulls"... Most with parts on them, one bare board. The ones with parts all have some parts missing that I think are relatively easy to find: 765 floppy controller chip, Z80 PIO or SOI, or 5027 video controllers, etc. Only one board has a 5027 on it, but I also have a "loose" 5027 that I will include. I have EPROM images for the CPU board EPROMs. * Three floppy drives loose plus two in their chassis components--the special not-quite-half-height drives the Attache used; * GPIB cards in various states of assembly, rework, or disassembly. I believe there is also an 8086 card, but it's stripped of parts. * Case and chassis parts that I believe are enough to build (or reface) a complete unit, include outside cover, two rear bezels (one with PSU attached to it), a front bezel still wrapped in foam, keyboard shell top and bottom halves, handle; * Additional keyboard assembly, dirty, but usable; plus three keyboards without case. * One video/CRT field replacement unit (tube + boards + mounting hardware), plus an extra video board, extra yoke, and another incomplete video assembly. I think I also have a third partial assembly in a box; if I find it, it will be included. * A number of expansion/daughter cards for 25th line, graphics, and high-res graphics; some are loose, but some are mounted to CPU boards (see photos). * CP/M boot disks in unknown condition (images also available from Don Maslin, I believe). * Binder with schematics. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 14:28:17 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > > I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these >> systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it >> better and faster for free. > >It's just nice as a museum exhibit though, if we're able to show it >running both a windowing environment and a real Unix with networking >too. But if you want to use the system as a museum exhibit, wouldn't it be best to show it running it's original OS? I can see loading Unix if the OS wasn't available, but for the TT030 it is. > > Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 have? > >Ahh, 'only' 4MB on this one I think. Just enough for running BSD I >believe though. I did come across some info on the web on how to >increase the memory in them, but there's too much work to be done on >other things to justify spending a huge amount of time messing around >with this! I think that might have been the basic amount, that's how much mine has. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From david_comley at yahoo.com Mon May 10 14:49:53 2004 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040510194953.24700.qmail@web13523.mail.yahoo.com> Marion's Pizza. A Dayton classic. Once eaten never forgotten. -Dave --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton > Hamvention this year, taking > off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... > staying until Sunday > morning/noonish, I believe. Any good things to > see/do/visit/eat/drink > whilst I'm there? > > Thanks, and who knows? Maybe I'll finally meet > someone else on the list > "like, in person, eh?" ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't > speculate." > sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. > Bernstein > zmerch@30below.com | > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon May 10 15:11:34 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1eae0dad4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton Hamvention this year, taking > off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... staying until Sunday > morning/noonish, I believe. Well, in that case, have a safe journey. Oh, and more importantly, have fun at the Hamvention. I'm off to the Wakefield RISCOS Computer Club's show on Saturday - usually plenty of bargains to be had on the charity stall. I got an Acorn Pocketbook I (Psion 3a) for ?15 last year, complete with link cable, all the manuals, all the packaging and the power supply. Shame it didn't come with the OPL Programming cartridge, though. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI Electronics rule #1: A $500 component will blow to protect a $10 surge protector. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 10 15:11:40 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! References: <20040510194953.24700.qmail@web13523.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409FE1FC.1000904@jetnet.ab.ca> David Comley wrote: > Marion's Pizza. A Dayton classic. Once eaten never > forgotten. That could be taken two ways ya know. :) Still it is nice to know good places to eat when traveling. Ben. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon May 10 15:29:40 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040510202940.8522.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Is there computer stuff in the hamfest? I browsed their webpages but what I saw are all radio stuff. vax, 3900 --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton > Hamvention this year, taking > off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... > staying until Sunday > morning/noonish, I believe. Any good things to > see/do/visit/eat/drink > whilst I'm there? > > Thanks, and who knows? Maybe I'll finally meet > someone else on the list > "like, in person, eh?" ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't > speculate." > sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. > Bernstein > zmerch@30below.com | > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon May 10 15:44:27 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040510134357.02a47d50@mail.zipcon.net> You might want to go here and email them :) they might have TT030 install diskettes :) http://elfsoft.home.mindspring.com/ From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 10 16:12:35 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <20040510202940.8522.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> <20040510202940.8522.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040510211235.GA24888@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 01:29:40PM -0700, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > Is there computer stuff in the hamfest? I browsed > their webpages but what I saw are all radio stuff. Not so much indoors, but lots of the flea market stuff is computer-related. They also host a computer-only show in March and August that's 100% indoors... there used to be lots of flea-marketish stuff, but a few years ago they changed the table rates and made things too expensive for people selling $5 motherboards to effectively show up. I do buy a lot of connectors and cables, though, at the ComputerFest. Sometimes modern RAM, CPUs and blank media. If you can arrive at the opening bell on Friday (presuming you aren't a seller and browsing on Thursday night ;-), you *might* be able to find a classic bargain or two. The other scrounge time is Sunday right before closing time - people abandon stuff rather than take it home - that's how I got my first PDP-8/L for 20% of the marked price... the guy didn't want to load it in the trailer in the rain. Over the years, I've found PDP-8 hardware (more in the past than recently, though there was an -8/a last year), an RCA VIP, an ASR-33, DECmates, C-64 and VIC-20 bits, a hand-held proprietary bar code scanner with a 4004 inside, machine pin sockets, crystals, even bags of parts that were later turned into GG2 Bus+ boards. Pound for pound, though, most of the computer components in the flea market, are recently obsolete Intel hardware, Macintosh and Sun boxes. Oh, yeah... weather has *lots* to do with how good a HamFest it is... hot and sunny days can really hurt. People tarp things up in the rain, but an on-and-off rainy weekend can force some real bargains out of the sellers. And watch where you park... I prefer to pay for a spot in the grass by the BBQ restaurant that's to the left of the arena as you leave (can't remember what cardinal direction that's in)... get there early. It's not a bad place for lunch and a beer when you walk back with your morning haul, either. Enjoy! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.5 F (-57.5 C) Windchill -115.4 F (-81.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.9 kts Grid 059 Barometer 681.4 mb (10571. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From adamg at pobox.com Sun May 9 21:41:03 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen Message-ID: <20040510024103.GA61688@silme.pair.com> I have a "Gibson Light Pen by Koala", with software and docs. Does anyone know if this is truly the "sucessor" to the LPS II or just a repackaged version? -- Adam From pzachary at sasquatch.com Sun May 9 23:45:50 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <51791.216.218.236.136.1084164350.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> Q: is there any problem using a H720 in place of the H724? it looks like it should work... Sadly, the memory box I got out of this has issues, some locations work, some don't but I think I'll be able to fix it. Report on pdp-11/35 salvage from this lot; fans, 1 spun freely, 1 spun after a lillte work, all the others TOTALED. the power supply bricks work, I replaced the H724 with a H720 that I'd bought NOS(!) a while back. enclosure, the paint is very faded, but the case is fair. There is a 3/4" strand of ivy winding through the power harness bulkhead in such a way that I left a 6" long section as removing it would have destroyed the connectors (at least someone might be amused years from now.) Cards: the machine seems to have been partially stripped, much of the mamory, all interface and controllers and any cpu options are missing, intact are part of a couple MM-11Us and a complete basic CPU set. I spent some hours cleaning the card edges and found useable backplanes in my stuff as the existing ones look pretty bad, the core backplanes might be salvagable but the CPU backplane is badly corroded. the H960 casters roll smoothly (some sort of"tough love"? all the ones I'v gotten in pristine racks have a mind of their own) Pavl_ > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html > > ** WARNING!! ** > > These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many > disturbing images. You have been warned!! > -- > > TTFN - Guy From Bogilady at aol.com Mon May 10 11:10:39 2004 From: Bogilady at aol.com (Bogilady@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s in various conditions. I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can use them. I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is simply overwhelming. Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. Cathy From stegeman.h at 12move.nl Mon May 10 14:57:36 2004 From: stegeman.h at 12move.nl (henk stegeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: IBM Ssytem/7 restoration project needs a operator panel. Message-ID: <001101c436c9$0e2a5c00$1406a8c0@PC01> Hi all, I am currently restoring an old IBM System/7 to running condition. Please see http://www.anysystems.nl/system7.html#Top for pictures of this restoration project. I am currently searching desperately for an operator front panel of this system. See: http://www.anysystems.nl/history/system7/operator.panel.jpg Who can help me ? Thanks for any reactions. Regards Henk Stegeman IBM restorer. From sieler at allegro.com Mon May 10 15:36:20 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: IEM HP-IB devices (was Cool stuff!) In-Reply-To: <200405080206.i4826hbT010254@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <409F8554.31210.1952681C@localhost> Re: > My box has an HP-IB to SCSI motherboard and an HP 4.0Gb DAT SCSI > tape drive. ... > It claims to work with MPE and HPUX and to be compatible with > the HP 7978 tape drive (and the C1511 whatever that is). C1511 is an HP DDS drive. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 10 16:17:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040510211706.GB24888@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 03:37:23PM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > I've got an 80MB drive from a Mac LCIII lined up to replce the 40MB > drive in there with the bearing fault... assuming that SCSI drives for > use with Apple machines work with everything else... I have seen Apple-ROMmed ST1480s and a few other SCSI drives that were once required when you used Apple formatting tools, but the drives still responded to the usual geometry inquiry packets. The typical problem was that you couldn't put a Seagate or other OEMmed drive in your Mac unless you had a patched formatting tool or used a 3rd party tool. Apple-branded drives always worked in other machines. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-May-2004 21:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.7 F (-57.6 C) Windchill -126.7 F (-88.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.5 kts Grid 056 Barometer 681.3 mb (10575. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 17:23:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> from "Bogilady@aol.com" at May 10, 2004 12:10:39 PM Message-ID: <200405102223.i4AMNUQO008343@onyx.spiritone.com> > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > 1990s in various conditions. > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > use them. > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > simply overwhelming. > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > Cathy > Some details as to the type of computer equipment and a slightly better idea of the location in the Northwest might be helpful. There are several of us on the list that live in the Northwest. Knowing what, and how much is the most important though, as that will give people an idea as to wether they're interested or not. Zane From news at computercollector.com Mon May 10 17:25:51 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040510222551.80980.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Hi there, I'm not sure if he does estate sales, but I strongly suggest you contact Sellam Ismail, who owns a company in Silicon Valley called VintageTech. You may have seen his name on this list as well as "VCF" or "Vintage Computer Festival." Anyway, Sellam's pretty much the biggest collector in the known galaxy, and his company, VintageTech, lets him do this hobby for a living. You can reach Sellam at vcf@vintage.org. Why you should trust my opinion: I'm the founder/editor of Computer Collector, which is an online news magazine (with about 500 subscribers each week) serving the hobby. Good luck, -- Evan Koblentz (PS -- I personally collect handhelds and PDAs. If there are any in the collection, I'd like to look through the list.) --- Bogilady@aol.com wrote: > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes > > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > 1990s in various conditions. > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > use them. > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > simply overwhelming. > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > Cathy From rick at rickmurphy.net Mon May 10 17:24:01 2004 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040510182037.01ea9058@mail.itm-inst.com> At 01:21 PM 5/10/2004, John Allain wrote: > > I have a MV-III with a DEQNA interface and RQDX3 w/RD54, > > and a MOP boot with all filesystems *and* swap on remote NFS > > partitions is considerably faster than running on the RD54. > >My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI >-> SDI and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, >leading to the 3520 and '40. (going out on a limb now) I would actually >be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with MFM drives. >Perhaps TMaC's system was customised by a prior user? It's the latter - a VAX 3500 in a BA123 into which I installed my old GPX card set. Some other answers about the system - it does have a RQDX3. It boots off of floppy (RX50) currently and did boot the RD54 from my other VAX. The "RX22" mistake was mine - it sounds like a common 1.2 Mb floppy drive might just work as a replacement - this would allow NetBSD floppy boot at least. -Rick From evan947 at yahoo.com Mon May 10 17:54:01 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Oops.... Re: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <20040510222551.80980.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040510225401.60302.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry folks -- I meant to reply to the poster directly, not to the list. Tried to stop it in time but failed. Please don't judge me for it! Evan --- Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm not sure if he does estate sales, but I strongly suggest you contact > Sellam > Ismail, who owns a company in Silicon Valley called VintageTech. You may > have > seen his name on this list as well as "VCF" or "Vintage Computer Festival." > Anyway, Sellam's pretty much the biggest collector in the known galaxy, and > his > company, VintageTech, lets him do this hobby for a living. > > You can reach Sellam at vcf@vintage.org. > > Why you should trust my opinion: I'm the founder/editor of Computer > Collector, > which is an online news magazine (with about 500 subscribers each week) > serving > the hobby. > > Good luck, > > -- Evan Koblentz > > (PS -- I personally collect handhelds and PDAs. If there are any in the > collection, I'd like to look through the list.) > > --- Bogilady@aol.com wrote: > > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that > specializes > > > > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > > 1990s in various conditions. > > > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > > > use them. > > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > > simply overwhelming. > > > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > > Cathy > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 17:09:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google In-Reply-To: <16543.40310.119000.506477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 10, 4 11:19:18 am Message-ID: > > I'd agree if the ink used is "india ink" (carbon black based ink -- > the classic stuff used in Chinese/Japanese calligraphy). At one > point, pen plotters could accept drafting pens, such as the famous > Rotring/Rapidograph. Fill one with india ink and plot on vellum, keep FWIW, the thread on the pen carriage of the Tektronix 4662 plotter (and I assume the 4661, which seems to be mechanically very similar) is identical to that on Rotring pens. Handy.... You can get metal-tip drafting pens for HP plotters too, but I have no idea what sort of ink they contain. Most of them come pre-filled... -tony From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Mon May 10 17:58:39 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <200405101653.i4AGrlxw013898@spies.com> Message-ID: <016d01c436e2$55842950$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Yikes, Al, I should have asked how much space you need! :-) What's the size of the archive total? Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:54 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; jwest@classiccmp.org > Cc: aek@spies.com > Subject: Re: cd longevity > > > I would be interested. probably easiest to make a set of 5 > dvd-r's to start > From marvin at rain.org Mon May 10 18:35:48 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse Message-ID: <40A011D4.529CB57F@rain.org> Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon May 10 20:19:13 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> References: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Message-ID: <200405101819130583.14677EE7@192.168.42.129> Hi, Kathy, Suggest you contact Mark Dabek at RE-PC: (206) 575-8737. Good luck. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 10-May-04 at 12:10 Bogilady@aol.com wrote: >Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that >specializes >in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid >1990s in various conditions. > >I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there >can >use them. >I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is >simply overwhelming. > >Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. >Cathy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 10 21:27:58 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Message-ID: Cathy, If you have a list of items, there are numerous collectors and old computer enthusiasts here on the Classic Computer List who may be searching for items that you have. Could you give the folks here a chance before you send things to a liquidator? For example, I know that others and myself have an interest in old computer equipment manufactured by Digital Equipment Corporation. Thanks, Ashley Carder -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bogilady@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:11 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Computer Estate Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s in various conditions. I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can use them. I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is simply overwhelming. Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. Cathy From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 10 21:22:19 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > If you have a list of items, there are numerous collectors and old > computer enthusiasts here on the Classic Computer List who may be > searching for items that you have. Could you give the folks here a > chance before you send things to a liquidator? > For example, I know that others and myself have an interest in old > computer equipment manufactured by Digital Equipment Corporation. Me among them - and I'm interested hearing about in anything from Sun Microsystems too. But if Cathy finds "the rest" to be "simply overwhelming", I would guess that even compiling an accurate inventory is a daunting task, never mind sorting it into any kind of useful order. Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer sorting and inventorying services? I would, except I'm nothing like in the area (on the wrong side of the continent and, I suspect, in the wrong country as well). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From evan947 at yahoo.com Mon May 10 21:34:18 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question Message-ID: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? I'm sitting here holding both in my hand. The IQ version has a label calling it the "Electronic Organizer" while the OZ version has a label calling it the more popular "Wizard." Otherwise they are identical twins (including the instruction manuals.) Unfortunately neither has batteries right now, so I can't boot them to check for OS versions, etc. Even if Sharp merely changed the name from Organizer to Wizard, why would they bother drastically changing the model prefix from IQ- to OZ-? Evan From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon May 10 21:47:43 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question In-Reply-To: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A03ECF.6080102@4mcnabb.net> evan wrote: >Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between >the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? > > > I don't know about your IQ/OZ-7000 models, but I do know that the SL5500 and SL5000D sharp PDAs differed mostly in that the SL-5000D was the developer's version. The SL5500 came with a bit more ROM/RAM and a later version of Linux (yes, I said Linux - way cool), but other than that they are pretty much the same. So, maybe it is something like that. Also, Sharp seems to have different model numbers between English/Japanese versions of things. From vrs at msn.com Mon May 10 22:01:51 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate References: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > But if Cathy finds "the rest" to be "simply overwhelming", I would > guess that even compiling an accurate inventory is a daunting task, > never mind sorting it into any kind of useful order. > > Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer sorting > and inventorying services? I would, except I'm nothing like in the > area (on the wrong side of the continent and, I suspect, in the wrong > country as well). I am in the PDX area, and could probably help with a garage or a storage unit or two. If we are talking warehouses, it would need to be more than just me :-). Also, while my time is probably less encumbered than most, my expertise is somewhat narrow. If it is later than about the mid-80s, others will probably know more about it. Vince From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon May 10 22:12:15 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: >>> But if Cathy finds "the rest" to be "simply overwhelming", >>> I would guess that even compiling an accurate inventory is >>> a daunting task, never mind sorting it into any kind of >>> useful order. Prior to even a list [quite a bit of work perhaps] a few digital (wide angle overview type) shots would be a start to see what might be in the collection. If Cathy does not have a site to post them, e-mail to me, I will post them. Just an idea.... David V. Corbin david@dynamicconcepts.us 631-244-8487 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 10 22:04:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: References: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200405110316.XAA18770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer >> sorting and inventorying services? > [...] > Also, while my time is probably less encumbered than most, my > expertise is somewhat narrow. If it is later than about the mid-80s, > others will probably know more about it. Doubtless. But you are, for example, competent to draw up an inventory "this is a Data General machine with a sticker on the back reading thus...", which is probably more than most people can do. You know what kind of information is worth reporting and what isn't - for example, my mother, who knows _nothing_ about computers, recently tried to describe a machine to me over the phone, and didn't even know enough to skip the mains power spec labeling (the "120VAC 35W" sort of stuff). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From donm at cts.com Mon May 10 23:20:18 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question In-Reply-To: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, evan wrote: > Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between > the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? > > I'm sitting here holding both in my hand. The IQ version has a label calling > it the "Electronic Organizer" while the OZ version has a label calling it the > more popular "Wizard." Otherwise they are identical twins (including the > instruction manuals.) > > Unfortunately neither has batteries right now, so I can't boot them to check > for OS versions, etc. > > Even if Sharp merely changed the name from Organizer to Wizard, why would they > bother drastically changing the model prefix from IQ- to OZ-? Well, who ever heard of the "Wizard of IQ"? - don > Evan > From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Mon May 10 18:07:22 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 10, 2004 09:27:05 AM Message-ID: <200405102307.i4AN7MwC014295@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these >systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it >better and faster for free. Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 >have? > > Zane > The TT is expandable to 10Mb of ST RAM plus 16Mb of FastRAM. Likewise, there was a licensed version of Unix V developed for it. From KParker at workcover.com Mon May 10 18:29:46 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: How do you subscribe to Computer Collector +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2004 7:56 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Computer Estate Hi there, I'm not sure if he does estate sales, but I strongly suggest you contact Sellam Ismail, who owns a company in Silicon Valley called VintageTech. You may have seen his name on this list as well as "VCF" or "Vintage Computer Festival." Anyway, Sellam's pretty much the biggest collector in the known galaxy, and his company, VintageTech, lets him do this hobby for a living. You can reach Sellam at vcf@vintage.org. Why you should trust my opinion: I'm the founder/editor of Computer Collector, which is an online news magazine (with about 500 subscribers each week) serving the hobby. Good luck, -- Evan Koblentz (PS -- I personally collect handhelds and PDAs. If there are any in the collection, I'd like to look through the list.) --- Bogilady@aol.com wrote: > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes > > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > 1990s in various conditions. > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > use them. > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > simply overwhelming. > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > Cathy ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From tandem at comcast.net Mon May 10 19:13:21 2004 From: tandem at comcast.net (tandem) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale Message-ID: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. Is there a good place to list them? tm From usenet25 at mail.keck.cx Mon May 10 23:11:21 2004 From: usenet25 at mail.keck.cx (Cornelius Keck) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Need Help: NEC PowerMate Portable SX Message-ID: Cheers! I just came across this old posting at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010530.html I have one of these, and I've started to play with it; while searching the net for the setup utility (ftp.necsam.com has these), I found some info regarding the switches at http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/M-O/31485.htm Hope this helps! Regards, Cornelius -- Cornelius Keck ------------------------ usenet25@keck.us From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 11 00:25:14 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale References: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <40A063BA.2030209@jetnet.ab.ca> tandem wrote: > I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. > > Is there a good place to list them? > > tm Here is a good place to list them. So is The Vintage Computer Marketplace http://marketplace.vintage.org/ Also the newsgroup alt.sys.pdp8 is the most interested group. :) From marvin at rain.org Tue May 11 00:33:28 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable Message-ID: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. Thanks! http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg From medavidson at mac.com Tue May 11 00:37:25 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale In-Reply-To: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> References: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4863C2DC-A30D-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 10, 2004, at 5:13 PM, tandem wrote: > I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. > > Is there a good place to list them? > > tm > > No matter where you post information (either here, the Vintage Computer Marketplace, or alt.sys.pdp8), please let the list know... that way, those of us that are interested in them know where to go look! :) Mark From ohh at drizzle.com Tue May 11 01:58:41 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Forgive me if I snip responses wildly; most of this was Vince: > > Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer sorting > > and inventorying services? [...] > > I am in the PDX area, and could probably help with a garage or a storage > unit or two. If we are talking warehouses, it would need to be more than > just me :-). > > Also, while my time is probably less encumbered than most, my expertise is > somewhat narrow. If it is later than about the mid-80s, others will > probably know more about it. I've e-mailed her a similar offer of help if she's here in Seattle. If you consider your expertise narrow, mine is still more so; but if nothing else I can always refer truly interesting - or puzzling - items to the list for help. Who knows? Maybe it would help someone find something they've been hunting for. :) -O.- From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon May 10 14:23:19 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040510212319.2f5992d7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:21:17 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI > -> SDI I would say DSSI, SDI, SMD and (depending on controller and drive) EDSI are equal in performance. > and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, No. QBus VAXen are low end machines. > leading to the 3520 and '40. The MV3500 on one side and the VS35[24]0 on the other side are completely different machines. The MV3500 is single CPU and all QBus where the VS35[24]0 has 2 or 4 CPUs, a special MBus (?) and some sort of QBus that AFAIK was only usable for a TQK70. > I would actually be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with MFM > drives. My MV3500 came with MFM disks. (But was later extended with SMD and DSSI by the previous owner.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue May 11 03:59:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084265945.27383.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 19:28, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these > >> systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it > >> better and faster for free. > > > >It's just nice as a museum exhibit though, if we're able to show it > >running both a windowing environment and a real Unix with networking > >too. > > But if you want to use the system as a museum exhibit, wouldn't it be > best to show it running it's original OS? I can see loading Unix if > the OS wasn't available, but for the TT030 it is. Oh, absolutely. And when just left running on display for people to play around with it would be. Many of the public we get coming round have heard of Unix but associate it with big powerful machines locked away in a server room somewhere - it'd be nice to be able to also show it running on a small plastic-cased desktop machine :-) cheers Jules From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Tue May 11 05:53:39 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable In-Reply-To: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> References: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> Message-ID: <40A0B0B3.9090401@vzavenue.net> Marvin Johnston wrote: >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. >Thanks! > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg > > > It's the dongle cable for an Apple PC compatibility card for the 6100 series of machine. From menadeau at comcast.net Tue May 11 06:05:21 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question References: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c43747$db0ca060$0b01a8c0@Mike> Japanese electronics manufacturers often used letter designations in the model names to indicate the geographic market in which their products were sold. However, your thought about the name change is also quite possible. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "evan" To: Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:34 PM Subject: Sharp PDA question > Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between > the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? > > I'm sitting here holding both in my hand. The IQ version has a label calling > it the "Electronic Organizer" while the OZ version has a label calling it the > more popular "Wizard." Otherwise they are identical twins (including the > instruction manuals.) > > Unfortunately neither has batteries right now, so I can't boot them to check > for OS versions, etc. > > Even if Sharp merely changed the name from Organizer to Wizard, why would they > bother drastically changing the model prefix from IQ- to OZ-? > > Evan > From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 11 06:28:53 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > him office/storage space (contractually obligated, but amount not > specified), but reneged. He had once planned to do something with > the machines, but got overwhelmed with other problems, including > rapidly decreasing storage space. Yes, he stored them there with the "OK, I'll move these later this week" thought, then got other things to do, then it became winter, and after that, it no longer mattered, so he forgot, sorta. > BTW, although I was the one who passed on the offer to the list, > it was the OTHER Fred who participated in the rescue. Me! Me! Me :) --f From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue May 11 07:19:49 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Pertec Interface Message-ID: <00f001c43752$5086bd30$6a00a8c0@athlon> Is there a definitive document anywhere on the net on this? Or anywhere else? This http://www.dbit.com/pub/pdp11/info/pertec.txt is good, but is there a formal definition document ? I have the impression from the preamble to the above text that the answer is negative. Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ From spectre at floodgap.com Tue May 11 08:20:42 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Toshiba IHC-8000 (Pasopia Mini) Message-ID: <200405111320.GAA16030@floodgap.com> Anyone out there know (or might be persuaded to part with >:-) any source on the Toshiba IHC-8000 (aka Pasopia Mini)? This was a small "pocket computer" circa 1983 with 4K of RAM and a 24x1 character LCD. Let me know if anyone remembers this unit, or better still, has one (working or not). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn ---------- From cb at mythtech.net Tue May 11 08:49:20 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable Message-ID: >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. >Thanks! > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg It goes to the DOS Compatibility card for either a Quadra 610 or a PowerMac 6100 (both used the same cable). There is also a version for the later PC Compatibility card that worked in a number of PCI PowerMacs. Slightly different cable was used for them. The visual difference being the later one lacks the Joystick connector on the cable (the PC Compatibility card had the joystick port on the card). I do not believe the two styles of cable are interchangeable. -chris From allain at panix.com Tue May 11 10:54:00 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd><200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org><007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com><002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20040510212319.2f5992d7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <009f01c43770$2dae9ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, > No. QBus VAXen are low end machines. When the 3500 came out, 1987, I believe that it was the faster than all other deskside microVAXes up to that point. True? John A. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 11 11:37:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Manual for DEC DF242-CA ? Message-ID: Hiyas, Does anyone have a manual for the DEC DFD242-CA (Scholar Plus) modem, part number EK-DF2XD-UG ? Thankee, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Tue May 11 12:31:21 2004 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen References: <200405072247.i47Mlfhc031273@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000401c4377e$c86b78f0$6c01000a@kevenwork> Yes, Sellam provided me a copy of the disk. I can provide one for you, but I don't have my apple accessable at the moment. If you can bear a few days. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Ryan" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 16:30 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen > Bought one of Ebay recently, but it comes without software. Was wondering if > anybody might be able to provide it to me in some form? > > Thanks, > Christopher Ryan > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 13:35:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Wahoo! Another HP 1000! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511143507.009588e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I got a call this morning from one of my favorite sources. I went out there and found a HP 1000 F series and a Floating Point unit (along with many lesser goodies). :-) Joe From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Tue May 11 11:27:18 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: OT: Tube manufacturing in China Message-ID: <200405111642.i4BGgWhc060238@huey.classiccmp.org> Interesting pictures from a tube manufacturing plant in China. http://www.supertnt.com/default/news3.asp -Neil From bmachacek at pcisys.net Tue May 11 14:15:56 2004 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Altos 686 Message-ID: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon> I just noticed I have an Altos 686 (without a cover) PC in my stack of 'old computer stuff'. It's s model 25A with one 5 1/4 inch floppy drive and a Seagate ST225 hard drive. Is this one of Altos computers that people are interested in or something that needs to be scrapped? Thanks for any help you can give me. Bill Machacek From arcarlini at iee.org Tue May 11 14:21:44 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <009f01c43770$2dae9ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00c201c4378d$32161180$5b01a8c0@athlon> > >> and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, > > No. QBus VAXen are low end machines. > > When the 3500 came out, 1987, I believe that it was the > faster than all other deskside microVAXes up to that point. True? True. But you could have picked up a Sun workstation for less money that ran rings around it. The fact that it was faster than everything except the large VAXen is not really the point. Even DEC considered Qbus machines to be the low-end ... it's just all many of us could afford :-) Not until the Vaxstation 3100 M30/M40 came out a year or two later did DEC begin to address the workstation market. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue May 11 14:21:37 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable In-Reply-To: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040511121749.00a59420@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:33 PM 5/10/04 -0700, Marvin Johnston wrote: >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. >Thanks! > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg Plugs into one of the DOS or PC cards and passes through/switches the normal Mac Video card output. There were maybe two or three different cables depending on which PC card you use. From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 14:25:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller Message-ID: A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). Would there be any other interest in purchasing this controller? Board fab and parts in quantity 5 has the price at about $100 right now (unassembled). If there's enough interest then I'll manufacture a large batch to bring the price down and sell off kits to recoup the design and manufacturing costs for myself. E-mail me if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mtkleinm at uci.edu Tue May 11 14:55:15 2004 From: mtkleinm at uci.edu (Michael Kleinman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <002f01c43791$e26964c0$4843c880@kleinman> If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. Mike Kleinman From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue May 11 14:41:46 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA477A@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Sellam: I certainly would be interested. And, if the interface is "easy" enough I can integrate software support into the Altair32 Emulator. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:25 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List Subject: Front panel controller A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). Would there be any other interest in purchasing this controller? Board fab and parts in quantity 5 has the price at about $100 right now (unassembled). If there's enough interest then I'll manufacture a large batch to bring the price down and sell off kits to recoup the design and manufacturing costs for myself. E-mail me if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 16:30:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <200405112130.OAA02558@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Michael Kleinman" > >If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. > > > >Mike Kleinman > > Hi Maybe these are part of some class project. You send out these strange request to see what kind of response you get. There are just too many of these to be real. Many, resently, seem to be using the same general format. Dwight From tony.eros at machm.org Tue May 11 16:34:17 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405112133.RAA56699@smtp.9netave.com> Sounds interesting -- count me in! -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:25 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List Subject: Front panel controller A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). Would there be any other interest in purchasing this controller? Board fab and parts in quantity 5 has the price at about $100 right now (unassembled). If there's enough interest then I'll manufacture a large batch to bring the price down and sell off kits to recoup the design and manufacturing costs for myself. E-mail me if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 16:41:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any thoughts on this? Joe From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue May 11 16:48:39 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: > Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs > on them. The Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing > them. But I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to take > the related parts off? Can the board be used as is? This would save a lot of work to get a working Z8000 syatem. Any pictures? Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 16:47:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D In-Reply-To: <200405112130.OAA02558@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > >From: "Michael Kleinman" > > > >If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. > > > > > > > >Mike Kleinman > > > > > > Hi > Maybe these are part of some class project. You send out > these strange request to see what kind of response you get. > There are just too many of these to be real. Many, resently, > seem to be using the same general format. Dwight, As was explained before, the off-list messages that are sent to the list are held up until someone moderates them and either deletes or approves them. That's why they come in spurts. Also, people are responding to old messages that are archived and come up in Google searches. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 16:54:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511175407.008bec90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:48 PM 5/11/04 +0100, you wrote: > >> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs >> on them. The Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing >> them. But I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to take >> the related parts off? > >Can the board be used as is? Probably. It has a bunch of memory on it and a couple of EPROMs and a bunch of other ICs including two large ICs marked SC73004CV. I couldn't find anything about them. The board is marked "dsc MP-10/3". I searched the net but didn't find anything about it. No pictures but I guess I could take one. I need to photograph some stuff anyway. Joe This would save a lot of work to >get a working Z8000 syatem. Any pictures? > >Cheers, > Lee. > > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ > From vrs at msn.com Tue May 11 17:25:37 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a > PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and > 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional > blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects > to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated > hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem > continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the > board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based > emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen is doing? Vince From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 11 17:21:38 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question References: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe R. wrote: > Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The > Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if > it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered > on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are > Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any > thoughts on this? > > Joe > > . > I like my computers whole. :) Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. Ben. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 17:26:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Picture RE: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511182643.0086dd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:48 PM 5/11/04 +0100, you wrote: > This would save a lot of work to >get a working Z8000 syatem. Any pictures? This is about 1/2 the actual of the card Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 17:32:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: New Finds: MORE Multibus cards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511183232.0087e7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> On todays scrounging mission I turned up three more Multibus cards that I hadn't seen before. (1) An Intel iSBC 88/25 with a 8088 CPU . (2) What looks like a ROM/PROM card made by Amtelco . It used have a battery in the lower RH corner. You can see where it leaked and ate up some of the contacts on the P2 connector. (3) This one was made by Proconics and it says that it's an I/O card . Joe From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 17:33:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, vrs wrote: > > A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a > > PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and > > 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional > > blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects > > to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated > > hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem > > continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the > > board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based > > emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen > is doing? I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference is that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done and going to fab in another week or so. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 17:44:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <200405112244.PAA02592@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Tue, 11 May 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> >> >From: "Michael Kleinman" >> > >> >If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. >> > >> > >> > >> >Mike Kleinman >> > >> > >> >> Hi >> Maybe these are part of some class project. You send out >> these strange request to see what kind of response you get. >> There are just too many of these to be real. Many, resently, >> seem to be using the same general format. > >Dwight, > >As was explained before, the off-list messages that are sent to the list >are held up until someone moderates them and either deletes or approves >them. That's why they come in spurts. Also, people are responding to old >messages that are archived and come up in Google searches. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > Hi Sellam This has all been discussed before. It just makes me wonder because the messages are so alike. I understand the clustering but not why the clusters should have so much similarity. Dwight From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue May 11 17:57:06 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I like my computers whole. :) > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. > Ben. > I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) g. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 11 17:54:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040511225448.GB24029@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 04:21:38PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. Commodore had a Z8000 UNIX machine, didn't they? I can't recall if it was ever fully released, or if it was only seen around the halls of Westchester... I would look it up at the "Secret Weapons of Commodore" site, but at the moment, we are sharing a 38Kbps link for everyone on station, and it's virtually impossible to surf the web. You don't see any Commodore logos on there do you? :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-May-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.7 F (-56.5 C) Windchill -119.9 F (-84.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.4 kts Grid 038 Barometer 684.2 mb (10468. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 17:59:08 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405112259.PAA02618@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Joe R. wrote: >> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The >> Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if >> it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered >> on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are >> Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any >> thoughts on this? >> >> Joe >> >> . >> > >I like my computers whole. :) >Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >Ben. > > > Hi Ben I think Olivetti was the only one I know of. The M20 ( I have one of these working ) was the most common. The M20 was also labled as L1 for some markets. I think there was a M30 and M40 that also had the Z8000 as well( not to be confused with the M24 that most have seen ). There were a number of custom applications and even some Multibus boards made with Z8000's but in the desk top like world, I think the M20 was it. I've got both PCOS and CPM8000 running on my M20. The board, Joe has, has the MMU so it would be a candidate for getting CPM8000 up on. I'd be a lot of work to trace out how things were interconnected. Not an easy project without some board schematics. I could assist anyone wanting to get CPM8000 running on a Z8000 system but before starting to build one, contact me and I can describe some of the design requirements. Dwight From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue May 11 18:45:29 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C1F@email1.parl.net> I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and the Ithica DPS-8000 (I saw a Byte advert for it, not sure how well it sold). And there were as Dwight stated numerous commercial Z8000 S-100, multibus, STD bus processor cards (once again advertised in Byte). Lastly the Commodore C900, which only made it to evaluation machine stage. I believe that a few 100 were ever made, I just missed one on ebay a few months ago. I asked the purchaser a couple of times (through ebay) for his impressions and any information on it, but I got no reply. David From aek at spies.com Tue May 11 18:50:22 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405112350.i4BNoMpS026882@spies.com> I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and the Ithica DPS-8000 == Central Data in Champaign/Ubana made a Multibus Z8K board that they sold with their OS and Xenix. I'll get the docs up on bitsavers for it eventually. I also have some stuff for the Zilog S8000 From medavidson at mac.com Tue May 11 18:56:59 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405112350.i4BNoMpS026882@spies.com> References: <200405112350.i4BNoMpS026882@spies.com> Message-ID: Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... Mark On May 11, 2004, at 4:50 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the > Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and > the > Ithica DPS-8000 > > == > > Central Data in Champaign/Ubana made a Multibus Z8K board that they > sold > with their OS and Xenix. > > I'll get the docs up on bitsavers for it eventually. I also have some > stuff > for the Zilog S8000 From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 11 18:04:09 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040511230409.GC24029@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 03:33:52PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen > > is doing? > > I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference is > that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done and going > to fab in another week or so. What technology is yours based on? Henk's was originally a 6802, but it looks like it's shifted to a 6809 based on recent discussions. I only ask because, like many here, I might end up hacking these sorts of things if it's not too much work. Also... your replica PDP-1 sounds intriguing... what are you doing about switch handles? Are you going to use incandescent lights or filtered LEDs? How are you implementing the DECscope? (Obviously it wouldn't be much of an emulator if it didn't play SPACEWAR :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-May-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.8 F (-56.6 C) Windchill -117.4 F (-83 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.8 kts Grid 037 Barometer 684.3 mb (10464. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From medavidson at mac.com Tue May 11 19:01:31 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C1F@email1.parl.net> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C1F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <8668B403-A3A7-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 11, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the > Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and > the > Ithica DPS-8000 (I saw a Byte advert for it, not sure how well it > sold). > And there were as Dwight stated numerous commercial Z8000 S-100, > multibus, STD bus processor cards (once again advertised in Byte). > Lastly the Commodore C900, which only made it to evaluation machine > stage. I believe that a few 100 were ever made, I just missed one on > ebay a few months ago. I asked the purchaser a couple of times (through > ebay) for his impressions and any information on it, but I got no > reply. > I think I posted about this to the list already, but yes, Zilog had a system. It was indeed called the Zilog System 8000 and ran a version of System III Unix called ZEUS (Zilog Enhanced Unix System). I worked with a doctor years ago to move some COBOL code (written using RM/COBOL) from an MP/M system to a Zilog. I had to drive to the Zilog rep office to do the work. I remember it being a cool system, but way too much for me to consider at the time. I'd love to find one, though... I love old Unix boxes. Mark From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue May 11 19:44:50 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: WTB: PROMs 82S135, 6039, 74S741, etc. Message-ID: <009f01c437ba$55590a80$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> I'm trying to find a couple of 256x8 PROMs (unprogrammed of course) for replacements. The original part is an 82S135 (Phillips), but equivalents are apparently: NEC uPB421; AMD/MMI 6309, 63S09, 6309-1, 63S281; Texas Instruments 18S22 or 28L22. If anyone knows of a source for these, or has a couple you are willing to part with, please contact me off list. So far I've found a lot of sites advertising, but only one has actually had the parts and I'm hoping to do better than nearly $16 each. --Patrick From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 19:54:59 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: WTB: PROMs 82S135, 6039, 74S741, etc. Message-ID: <200405120054.RAA02700@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Patrick You might go with a larger 1Kx8 PROMs. I think these are more easily found. You can waste the rest or add jumpers to select options. It seems like I was able to get some of these from Jameco or Anchor. Just a though Dwight >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >I'm trying to find a couple of 256x8 PROMs (unprogrammed of course) for >replacements. The original part is an 82S135 (Phillips), but equivalents >are apparently: NEC uPB421; AMD/MMI 6309, 63S09, 6309-1, 63S281; Texas >Instruments 18S22 or 28L22. If anyone knows of a source for these, or has a >couple you are willing to part with, please contact me off list. So far >I've found a lot of sites advertising, but only one has actually had the >parts and I'm hoping to do better than nearly $16 each. --Patrick > > > From spectre at floodgap.com Tue May 11 20:11:14 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: from Gene Buckle at "May 11, 4 03:57:06 pm" Message-ID: <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> > > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other > > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. > > I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. > You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) As others have said, the 900. This used the Z8001, and was released in very small numbers. Recently, however, I did acquire the boot disks to one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image them at least. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/900.html -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Once, adv.: Enough. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" ------------ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 20:10:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511211038.008c1a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:21 PM 5/11/04 -0600, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: >> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The >> Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if >> it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered >> on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are >> Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any >> thoughts on this? >> >> Joe >> >> . >> > >I like my computers whole. :) So do I but the boards are all I found. I think all the boards are all the same so unless eveything is one the one card there isn't even be a complete set of cards. The cards are marked "dsc MP-10/3" and "Made in USA". I couldn't find anything with that model number but didn't research "dsc". Joe >Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >Ben. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 20:18:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511211839.008c1d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:11 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Cameron wrote: >> > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >> > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >> >> I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. >> You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) > >As others have said, the 900. This used the Z8001, and was released in >very small numbers. Recently, however, I did acquire the boot disks to >one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no >unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image >them at least. > >http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/900.html Cameron, Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Perhaps I should add that the card has two MMUs. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 20:23:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <20040511225448.GB24029@bos7.spole.gov> References: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511212326.00793a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:54 PM 5/11/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 04:21:38PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: >> Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >> CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. > >Commodore had a Z8000 UNIX machine, didn't they? I can't recall if it >was ever fully released, or if it was only seen around the halls of >Westchester... > >I would look it up at the "Secret Weapons of Commodore" site, but at the >moment, we are sharing a 38Kbps link for everyone on station, and it's >virtually impossible to surf the web. > >You don't see any Commodore logos on there do you? :-) No just a stylized "dsc". I'll try and get a photo of it tomorrow and post it. Maybe somebody will recognize it. There are no other names on it anywhere including the EPROM labels, just some more numbers. I looked at Claus Sch?nleber's 900 Page and in one photo you can see part of the main circuit board. It doesn't look anything like the board that I have. Joe > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-May-2004 22:50 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.7 F (-56.5 C) Windchill -119.9 F (-84.40 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 11.4 kts Grid 038 Barometer 684.2 mb (10468. ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 20:25:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Important warning: avoid erikb@cyberspace.org Message-ID: I just wanted to pass along a tip to everyone in the hobby. Beware of this guy who goes around as "Erik B." (erikb@cyberspace.org) from the Netherlands (at least that's where he says he's from). I've had a couple very obnoxious experiences with him and in my opinion he's not to be trusted. I don't know if he uses another e-mail address (my guess is that he does) but I would be wary of anyone who goes by the name "Erik B." and won't disclose his last name nor any other information necessary for a useful transaction. He's a lurker on the CC list and who knows where else. This is only the second time I've felt it important enough to do this. I don't like to, but in some cases I think it's necessary. Just a friendly warning... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 20:32:39 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405120132.SAA02747@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe I might have some of them. I'll not be able to check until this weekend. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > >At 06:11 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Cameron wrote: >>> > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >>> > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >>> >>> I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. >>> You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) >> >>As others have said, the 900. This used the Z8001, and was released in >>very small numbers. Recently, however, I did acquire the boot disks to >>one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no >>unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image >>them at least. >> >>http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/900.html > > Cameron, > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > > Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, >Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. > > Perhaps I should add that the card has two MMUs. > > Joe > From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue May 11 20:56:56 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: pictures of Hyperion 'ex' unit Message-ID: <000f01c437c4$799f0980$6402a8c0@home> Finally got around to investigating the Hyperion Ex unit. I've posted several shots at these urls : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopen.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionex.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopenwide.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexserial.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionfront.jpg The unit contains a 9600 modem, IBM serial port for a logitech mouse and a 128k memory card as well as a MiniScribe hard drive. Don't know the capacity yet, it's in the records somewhere. There are two of these, one has some trace problems and I haven't tried to run either of them. Same color as the Hyperions, and are from 1984 while the Hyperions are earlier, October '82 or so. Thought you folks might be interested. bm From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 11 20:59:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Wahoo! Another HP 1000! References: <3.0.6.32.20040511143507.009588e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004901c437c4$b872de70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote... > I got a call this morning from one of my favorite sources. I went out > there and found a HP 1000 F series and a Floating Point unit (along with > many lesser goodies). :-) Cool Joe, sounds like you've got quite the stash of 1K's. How many are running, and what OS or Environment do you run most often on yours? Jay From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue May 11 21:13:26 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622464@email1.parl.net> I did acquire the boot disks to one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image them at least. I can feel an emulation coming on. However not from me at the moment, damn that "not having all the time in the world" thing. David From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue May 11 21:21:06 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C20@email1.parl.net> Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Zilog still CMOS versions of the Z-SCC and so there is doco on their site for that chip. Jurjen Kranenborg (www.kranenborg.org/z8000) says he has tech namuals for Z-MMU, Z-SCC, and Z-CIO, and a product spec for the Z8581 clock generator chip. I also have hard copy (no scanner thought) of the MMU so I could answer questions. I have collected largeish PDFs from zilog's site of the Z-SCC and Z-CIO chips, and a big PDF of the Z8000 tech manual (which is also at Jurjen's web site). David From vrs at msn.com Tue May 11 21:20:56 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen > > is doing? > > I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference is > that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done and going > to fab in another week or so. Well, I have been doing the layout work for Henk's board. and it is ready for a test fab, except that we are doing a conversion from the 6802 to the 6809, after some feedback from the potential users. I think there are roughly 20 each of the cpu core and the I/O boards spoken for, so far. The design is basically a 680x cpu core driving at least one I/O board, which interfaces to the switches and lights. Each I/O board drives up to 64 outputs and can take up to 64 inputs. Fanout issues currently limit the system to 6 I/O boards, IIRC. Current plan is to do one-off runs of the cpu and I/O in Europe, make sure there are no problems, then do larger runs here in the USA. I expect Henk will be getting to his e-mail in a few hours, to speak for himself :-). Vince From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 11 21:30:30 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405112130.30307.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 11 May 2004 21:20, vrs wrote: > > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project > > > Henk > > Gooijen > > > > is doing? > > > > I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference > > is that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done > > and going to fab in another week or so. > > Well, I have been doing the layout work for Henk's board. and it is > ready for a test fab, except that we are doing a conversion from the > 6802 to the 6809, after some feedback from the potential users. What kind of host-side interface does it have? I've been thinking about something like this, but wouldn't bother with it unless it had an RS-232 interface. (Why limit myself to a PC?) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From marvin at rain.org Tue May 11 10:53:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple Cable References: Message-ID: <40A0F6F2.AE65C20B@rain.org> Thanks to Chris and james for their responses; at least I know what this is now! Since I have no use for these cables, anyone need them? I'll go ahead and stick them up on VCM for $1.00 each plus shipping. Thanks again!!! chris wrote: > > >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple > >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. > >Thanks! > > > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg > > It goes to the DOS Compatibility card for either a Quadra 610 or a > PowerMac 6100 (both used the same cable). > > There is also a version for the later PC Compatibility card that worked > in a number of PCI PowerMacs. Slightly different cable was used for them. > The visual difference being the later one lacks the Joystick connector on > the cable (the PC Compatibility card had the joystick port on the card). > I do not believe the two styles of cable are interchangeable. > > -chris > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 21:43:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of > some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved > it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS > (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). > > I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue May 11 22:10:46 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: WTB: PROMs 82S135, 6039, 74S741, etc. References: <200405120054.RAA02700@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000601c437ce$b8826340$210fa8c0@Sol> > Hi Patrick > You might go with a larger 1Kx8 PROMs. I think these > are more easily found. You can waste the rest or add > jumpers to select options. It seems like I was able to > get some of these from Jameco or Anchor. > Just a though > Dwight Dwight, that's absolutely a solution. I was hoping to find the "smaller" part to provide the most authentic match for the appearance of the board, but they are scarce. The original purpose that lit this endeavor was replacement PROMs for a North Star MDS-AD3. The smaller 256x4 PROMs that it uses for address decode were easily located at Jameco, but the larger PROM for the E800h boot routine is proving elusive. Thanks! --Patrick From donm at cts.com Tue May 11 23:03:19 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622464@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > I did acquire the boot disks to one from a former owner on the > other side of the pond; alas, I have no unit to boot them on, but I'm > still working on that. ^^ I might image them at least. How about forwarding disk images to me to add to the archive. TeleDisk preferred. - don > I can feel an emulation coming on. However not from me at the moment, > damn that "not having all the time in the world" thing. > > David > > From cb at mythtech.net Tue May 11 23:22:54 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple Cable Message-ID: >Since I have no use for these cables, anyone need them? I'll go ahead >and stick them up on VCM for $1.00 each plus shipping. Thanks again!!! Try listing them on the Low End Mac swap list. These cables are essential to being able to use the DOS card. Without the cable, the card is useless. I know there are people out there that need a cable to get their card working. (I don't. I have 3 cards, and 3 cables, plus 4 and 4 of the later version) -chris From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 01:42:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Interesting robot Message-ID: Has anyone else seen this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3814127711&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT A very interesting home-brew mechanical robot from the 1960s. Less than 9 hours left as of this writing. Perhaps someone local can purchase and preserve it? I'm trying to find a museum somewhere that can take it. Perhaps Ed Sharpe can find a way to acquire it? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 12 01:50:46 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Important warning: avoid erikb@cyberspace.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I just wanted to pass along a tip to everyone in the hobby. Beware of > this guy who goes around as "Erik B." (erikb@cyberspace.org) from the > Netherlands (at least that's where he says he's from). I've had a couple > very obnoxious experiences with him and in my opinion he's not to be > trusted. I don't know if he uses another e-mail address (my guess is > that he does) but I would be wary of anyone who goes by the name "Erik B." > and won't disclose his last name nor any other information necessary for a > useful transaction. His name is Erik Brens, and, yes, he is in The Netherlands. I can personally verify that he is on *my* "do not touch" list, for reasons I will not disclose in public. Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From GOOI at oce.nl Wed May 12 02:01:20 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Alright, I am awake. Several of you are heading to bed ... I will give a short description of my project, then you can decide for yourself which way you want to go. Warning! Sort of longish reply ahead! My design consist of 2 boards, one is called "Core", the other "I/O". Both boards are almost Eurocard size. Power supply: only +5 Volts. Features of the Core board. --------------------------- Chips: 6809, 6821, 6850, 6264, 27128 and 27256, in words: the CPU is the 6809 which is a 8/16 bit quite powerful CPU which has good high-level language support (think of C), and you can read more abt the 6809 in an other recent thread. The 27128 is 16k EPROM at memory C000-FFFF, of which half is filled with a debug monitor and software to control the I/O board. The 27256 is 32k -optional- EPROM at 4000- BFFF. The 6264 is 8k RAM at 2000-3FFF. The 6821 (2x8bit I/O) forms the buffered interface to the I/O board(s). Last, the 6850 is the ACIA, which makes the serial (9600 Bd) connection to *any* host computer. On board level conversion makes it a true RS-232 port. The ACIA and the PIA are mapped in $0080-$00FF, that is legacy from the design around the 6802 (RealConsole Mk I). The serial port can be connected to a terminal (e.g. VT220) and you use the monitor to debug your own (assembler) programs. Or you connect the serial port to a PC, SUN workstation or whatever and control the "thing" via the serial port. My application for it is to control the I/O that drives LEDs and read switches from a home-brew console. I have made some patches in SIMH, and I can *boot* RT11 via my console as if were the real thing. See www.pdp-11.nl , click in the left menu on "homebrew PDP-11". On the opening page click in the top section on "SIMH software", "new design" and "action!" for more ... Features of the I/O board. -------------------------- The I/O board has 3 LS138 (1 to 8 decode chips) and octal latches (373 and 374). One I/O board can have up to *eight* 8-bit output ports and *eight* 8-bit input ports, thus there is on one I/O board 64 outputs and 64 input available, enough to drive a full PDP-11/70 console. The I/O board is connected to the Core board with a simple 20-wire flat cable. If what you want to control is bigger, or perhaps totally different, you can cascade (theoretically) up to 8 I/O boards by just running that flatcable from I/O board to I/O board. A single jumper on the I/O board settles the addressing issues. The practical limit of I/O boards is six (due to fan-out load issues), but if you insist and go outside specifications I guess you could get away with 7 I/O boards. Applications for the Core and I/O board. - First, the mentioned console, but *NOT* limited to PDP-xx/xx consoles! Think of the IBM S3; not a small one, but it can be connected. The console can be home made, but if you have a *real* console laying around, that can be connected too! (I'd prefer a real console to go with a real machine tough ...) - Why limit to "blinkenlights" consoles? You can just as easy connect it to the more modern console like the 11/34 or 11/60 ! The control of the 7-segment displays is of course in software not with hex to 7 segment decoder chips! - Use some I/O to make a parallel I/O port (if you need it). I am not sure if the speed will be sufficient to connect an IDE drive (in PIO mode 1), but that is something I intend to try ... - Whatever project to wanted to do! There is enough I/O capability ... The monitor software is described on the site mentioned. If you know the Motorola Mikbug monitor, this will look familiar. The RealConsole software controls the I/O ports. The input ports are read periodically in an interrupt service routine. The *debounced* data from the switches is stored in memory locations, so your application can read the switches from those memory locations. Several "hooks" (in fact small subroutines) allow you to control any bit of any output port. There are a few 'special' routines to handle the issues involved with momentary push-buttons, toggles. A depressed toggle and then released would mean that in memory that specific bit would be set for a brief moment and then be reset. To solve that issue, you can specify via a hook on which input port(*s*), which bit(*s*) are connected to toggles. Those bits are processed differently. Once set (by pressing the toggle) that bit remains set until you command (an other hook) to return to zero. So, you can process each toggle when you want, and when that is actually done you reset the "toggle". Some "higher" level commands are e.g. "Axxxxx" where the "x" is a hex number. This command will put xxxxx on the Address LEDs. Likewise, there is a "Dxxxx" command. You figure out what it does :-) Project status -------------- The project was ready to go manufacture the lay-out PCB set prototype tpo build it and check if it does not contain errors. This week I am working on the "upgrade" from the 6802 to the 6809 CPU, because of its better availability. Performance improvement etc. are a nice side effect of this move. When the prototype is checked (within one month), the board sets are "mass produced" in the US. Silkscreened, solder mask, etc. - professional quality. To keep those costs low, it takes 5 weeks to get them made. (could be done in a few days, but don't ask what the compay charges!) You can order the board set (or more I/O Boards than Core boards) either bare, or together with the "difficult" chips, or as a complete kit that contains all components. I am not going to make much profit on it, but when more people join the bigger discount we can get on the parts! For those who rather not solder the boards, I am prepared to do that work and test them (for a fee though). I will write a "manual" that described the software, give a step-by-step DYI building the boards (with fotographs), connection diagrams, multiple I/O Board configuration plus the fan-out load calculations. >From my site you can download the software source code and the changes made to the current version of SIMH. Believe me, I am dedicated to this project! As Vince said, he did the PCB design and solved the routing issues. We try to buy the parts as cheap as possible, so those will probably be bought in the US and not where I Live - The Netherlands. We are working on how to ship it all. It is a little stupid to ship many parts from US to Holland, assemble the kits, anmd the send back some 70% of it all to the US again ... If you have any questions regarding this project, ask! I will try to give an answer as good as I can, as soon as I can. I will help thinking about your specific application. For example, one guy asked for the possibility to connect an 8-bit input port directly to an 8-bit output port and use the combination as a bi-directional 8-bit port. The final idea was building a setup to test M-boards! (BTW, the answer is yes with a minor patch!) kind regards, - Henk, PA8PDP gooi@oce.nl From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 12 02:15:31 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Gooijen H wrote: > As Vince said, he did the PCB design and solved the routing issues. > We try to buy the parts as cheap as possible, so those will probably > be bought in the US and not where I Live - The Netherlands. We are > working on how to ship it all. It is a little stupid to ship many > parts from US to Holland, assemble the kits, anmd the send back some > 70% of it all to the US again ... I can probably "traffic" some of the boards and/or parts from NL to the US (west coast), and vice versa, for those who want it. --fred From esharpe at uswest.net Wed May 12 03:25:11 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Interesting robot References: Message-ID: <000901c437fa$a4a7d270$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> yes it would be at home with the robots here... transportation would have to be worked out though! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: Interesting robot > > Has anyone else seen this? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3814127711&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT > > A very interesting home-brew mechanical robot from the 1960s. Less than 9 > hours left as of this writing. Perhaps someone local can purchase and > preserve it? > > I'm trying to find a museum somewhere that can take it. > > Perhaps Ed Sharpe can find a way to acquire it? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 12 06:44:27 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040511212326.00793a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040511212326.00793a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1084362267.28670.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-12 at 01:23, Joe R. wrote: > No just a stylized "dsc". I'll try and get a photo of it tomorrow and > post it. Maybe somebody will recognize it. There are no other names on it > anywhere including the EPROM labels, just some more numbers. Time to pull the EPROMs and see if there are any strings within giving a clue as to what it is? cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 07:23:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Wahoo! Another HP 1000! In-Reply-To: <004901c437c4$b872de70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511143507.009588e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512082313.00836100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:59 PM 5/11/04 -0500, you wrote: >Joe wrote... >> I got a call this morning from one of my favorite sources. I went out >> there and found a HP 1000 F series and a Floating Point unit (along with >> many lesser goodies). :-) > >Cool Joe, sounds like you've got quite the stash of 1K's. How many are >running, and what OS or Environment do you run most often on yours? > >Jay > I think I'm up to six of them now plus four, oops five, extender chassis. However I only have one or two working PSUs (haven't tested the new one yet). so far, no OS on them so I'm just toggling in things by hand. I'm still supposed to get the 2114 and 7900 disk drive but haven't completed that deal yet. I'm holding off till the guy finds the cables and manuals and he doesn't seem to be in a hurry. But I have a crap load of tape drives (hint, hint). Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 12 08:07:52 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: >>> Chips: 6809, 6821, 6850, 6264, 27128 and 27256. I was programming these parts as far back as 1979 [Ok I was using 2716/2732 eproms, but the 27128/27256 are not that much newer]. I am surprised that these parts are still in production.. My main question, however, is that since this is intended (I believe) for long term use, is this the best hardware to base a design on. What are the chances of getting spares for these components in 2014? Just my thoughts..... David. From vrs at msn.com Wed May 12 09:16:35 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > >>> Chips: 6809, 6821, 6850, 6264, 27128 and 27256. > > I was programming these parts as far back as 1979 [Ok I was using 2716/2732 > eproms, but the 27128/27256 are not that much newer]. > > I am surprised that these parts are still in production.. That was the main motivation for the move to the 6809, which has much broader availability than the 6802. > My main question, however, is that since this is intended (I believe) for > long term use, is this the best hardware to base a design on. What are the > chances of getting spares for these components in 2014? I believe that this is a problem with virtually *any* component you could choose. The newer stuff seems to generally have shorter lifespans. I believe this is an outcome of having more choices -- none of the "newer" chips (with perhaps some exceptions from Intel) has enough of a following to be readily available down the road. At least these old-time components have a following that has kept them around this long... I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the better choices? Vince From allain at panix.com Wed May 12 10:03:58 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Interesting robot References: Message-ID: <010301c43832$5ac1ff40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Looks like he was trying to copy the drive section on the famous robot "Shakey". I'm not sure of the dates. Looks like the kids 'bot came first. He really needed a friend with a computer to make it really be a robot though. John A. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed May 12 10:12:00 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted Message-ID: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. All this talk about frontpanel emulators... So I have this (mostly) working PDP-11/34, my one and only UniBus machine. It came with a RK07 drive. But the system was stored under bad conditions for years. There is rust and corrosion _everywhere_. The machine works so far but the drive is quite rotten. I have no other UniBus disk drive interfaces so I need either a new RK07 (unlikely) or a replacement for the entire conroler / drive combination or: What about a RK07 drive emulating hardware? A microcontroler with some TTLs to interface to the RK611 controler on one side and a compact FLASH card on the other. Maybe cache RAM in front of the FLASH to reduce write cycles to the FLASH. 32 MB is enough for a RK07 disk, even if the emulator stores raw data including all sector headers / trailers. Problem: Exact and detaild specs of the RK611 <=> RK0[67] interface. I found some hints in the "RK06/RK07 Disk Drive User's Manual" but not enough to build a new drive from scratch. Any pointers? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From michael at mfp.co.nz Tue May 11 18:12:16 2004 From: michael at mfp.co.nz (Michael Fincham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse In-Reply-To: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <38294.202.49.92.103.1084317136.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:35:48 -0700 > From: Marvin Johnston > Subject: Apple Mouse > To: ClassicCmp > > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? > I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. -Michael From laland at drillcon.no Wed May 12 08:51:37 2004 From: laland at drillcon.no (Jens Laland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512144953.00b2b680@pop3.online.no> Hi I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 datasheet (Ref.: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/021129.html). If you by any means got hold of it, would there be a possibility that you could share it with me? Best Regards, Jens Laland Bryne, Norway I have been curious all my life, about things: something to play with, investigate or know more about. However, a challenging process is often better than firm results which tend to leave you in the void between lesser storage space and the constant urge for something new. From ken.rauhala at nokia.com Wed May 12 10:32:52 2004 From: ken.rauhala at nokia.com (ken.rauhala@nokia.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) Message-ID: Hi, This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, printer, and VT100 terminal. Located in Merrimack NH. I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 From Bogilady at aol.com Wed May 12 10:37:54 2004 From: Bogilady at aol.com (Bogilady@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Sound like most of you do business with Sellam Ismail, Erik Klein or Bruce Lane. I will talk with the other family members this week and educate myself a bit. - - I am so glad I posted the message! Answers to your questions: Where in the Pacific NW? Dad's stuff is in a few locations in the Tri-Cities (Richland, Pasco, and Kennewick, WA). We are in the dry-desert side of the state. We are about 4 hours from either Seattle or Portland, 2.5hrs from Spokane, and about 6hrs from Boise. US395 & I82 intersect here. Do I have a list of items? How much is ?overwhelming?? There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ?mouse in a maze? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are look-in, not step-in rooms. The garage ? well it is a very careful adventure, and only a quarter of the way ventured. Furniture consists of workbenches and shelves mostly. He collected, but rarely parted with anything. Wish I could have hooked him up with you guys a year ago. (Hindsight 20/20) He was very proud of some of his finds. He would have enjoyed the treasure hunt. Thanks Again. Cathy From wm65805 at hotmail.com Wed May 12 11:14:25 2004 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (Bill malcolm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Heath HDOS disk and Source ? Message-ID: HI : I am looking for a bootable HDOS disk and Full source for same . Also wanted diagram for H-8 and rom listing for H-8 if possible I am looking to build emaulator for Mac for the H-8. Subject: Heath HDOS Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:33:25 -0500 HI : Legal --- The HDOS was released to Public Domain SEE The Computer Journal #43 Page 14-16 . I can send you a PDF if that article if you wish ? I am looking the source to the Hdos myself I think this information may in the archives on compuserv ? _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp From cb at mythtech.net Wed May 12 11:38:57 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse Message-ID: >> Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the >> rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? >> > >I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. Correct, the Plus was the last Mac with the D-9 connector. After that, they moved to ADB and the mini-din 8. However, I took the initial question as when did the D sub connector change for that style mouse from the boxy style found in the 128 to the more smooth curvy style found in the Mac Plus. I didn't respond because I don't know. -chris From marvin at rain.org Wed May 12 11:56:46 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse References: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> <38294.202.49.92.103.1084317136.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> Message-ID: <40A2574E.D0C82A93@rain.org> Michael Fincham wrote: > > > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the > > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? > > > > I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. The original Mac 128 had the 9 pin connector but it had a square shape as opposed to the later connectors. You can see the difference in this photo: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ap-mouse.jpg. The connector at the right is the original Mac 128K and the one on the left is a later version. My question is how much later :). From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed May 12 12:38:18 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Need info on SSI-263 speech chip. Message-ID: I'm looking for a data sheet for an SSI-263 Speech Chip. Basically I'm looking for information on how to program it. -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 12:38:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200405121802.OAA16076@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Do I have a list of items? How much is ???overwhelming???? > There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. > I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ???mouse in a > maze??? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow > paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are > look-in, not step-in rooms. Hoo boy. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Now I _really_ wish I lived closer! (I'd find the environment very familiar; my father's basement, while filled with things other than computers, was in other respects very much as you describe.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From medavidson at mac.com Wed May 12 13:10:14 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DB588B4-A43F-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 11, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > >> Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of >> some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved >> it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS >> (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). >> >> I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... > > I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also > have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... > Really? Does it work? I don't know why I'd want to acquire one of these, but I do... *grin* Mark From marvin at rain.org Wed May 12 13:37:58 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse References: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> <38294.202.49.92.103.1084317136.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> <40A2574E.D0C82A93@rain.org> Message-ID: <40A26F06.736546F5@rain.org> Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Michael Fincham wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the > > > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? > > > > > > > I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. > > The original Mac 128 had the 9 pin connector but it had a square shape > as opposed to the later connectors. You can see the difference in this > photo: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ap-mouse.jpg. The connector at the > right is the original Mac 128K and the one on the left is a later > version. My question is how much later :). OOPS, the one on the LEFT is the original 128K mouse. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 13:39:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <200405121802.OAA16076@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:38 PM 5/12/04 -0400, der mouse wrote: >> Do I have a list of items? How much is ???overwhelming???? > >> There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. >> I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ???mouse in a >> maze??? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow >> paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are >> look-in, not step-in rooms. > >Hoo boy. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Now I _really_ wish I >lived closer! (I'd find the environment very familiar; my father's >basement, while filled with things other than computers, was in other >respects very much as you describe.) So was my fathers. Now my house is that way. I think it's hereditary! Is there anyone on this list that ISN'T a packrat? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 13:37:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512143722.00b75c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It sounds like you guys from the NW are in for a real adventure! Joe At 11:37 AM 5/12/04 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. >Sound like most of you do business with Sellam Ismail, Erik Klein or Bruce >Lane. > >I will talk with the other family members this week and educate myself a bit. > >- - I am so glad I posted the message! > >Answers to your questions: > >Where in the Pacific NW? >Dad's stuff is in a few locations in the Tri-Cities (Richland, Pasco, and >Kennewick, WA). We are in the dry-desert side of the state. We are about 4 hours >from either Seattle or Portland, 2.5hrs from Spokane, and about 6hrs from >Boise. US395 & I82 intersect here. > >Do I have a list of items? How much is ???overwhelming???? >There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. >I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ???mouse in a maze??? >environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow paths through the living >and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are look-in, not step-in rooms. The >garage ??? well it is a very careful adventure, and only a quarter of the way >ventured. Furniture consists of workbenches and shelves mostly. He collected, but >rarely parted with anything. Wish I could have hooked him up with you guys a >year ago. (Hindsight 20/20) He was very proud of some of his finds. He would have >enjoyed the treasure hunt. > >Thanks Again. >Cathy > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed May 12 13:41:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet Message-ID: <200405121841.LAA03369@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Isn't this just a uP765 floppy controller? I think this is available from several sources. This is what was used on the first PC's. I think Intel has a different number for this as well. Dwight >From: "Jens Laland" > >Hi > >I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 >datasheet (Ref.: >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/021129.html). If >you by any means got hold of it, would there be a possibility that you >could share it with me? > >Best Regards, >Jens Laland >Bryne, Norway > > >I have been curious all my life, about things: something to play with, >investigate or know more about. However, a challenging process is often >better than firm results which tend to leave you in the void between lesser >storage space and the constant urge for something new. > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 13:57:07 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001601c43852$ed0f8eb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I defnitely inherited the packrat gene. The biggest marital "disputes" that my wife and I have are related to my "stuff" (the wife calls it by another name that starts with the letter "s") being all over the place. Ashley P.S. It would sure be fun to go through that collection of computer stuff in the NW, but I'm in the SE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate > At 01:38 PM 5/12/04 -0400, der mouse wrote: > >> Do I have a list of items? How much is ??ooverwhelming???? > > > >> There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. > >> I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ??omouse in a > >> maze??? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow > >> paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are > >> look-in, not step-in rooms. > > > >Hoo boy. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Now I _really_ wish I > >lived closer! (I'd find the environment very familiar; my father's > >basement, while filled with things other than computers, was in other > >respects very much as you describe.) > > > So was my fathers. Now my house is that way. I think it's hereditary! Is > there anyone on this list that ISN'T a packrat? > > > Joe > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 12 14:32:38 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: older tek scope parts ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040512142946.03655ea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a plastic front cover for a Tektronix 2465a scope? I tried Tektronix and they say that they no longer stock parts for the older equipment. For reference, it is 12"x6". --tnx --tom From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 14:40:15 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: Message-ID: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to others or keep it for themselves? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) > Hi, > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 14:44:53 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000801c43859$98e51010$a0340f14@mcothran1> ... or you can choose to remain anonymous. - A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/23 (free) > Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to others > or keep it for themselves? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM > Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) > > > > Hi, > > > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 > > > > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 12 14:48:27 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) In-Reply-To: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: I have been in touch with Ken. He has a local person interested. If that does not pan out, I will be going up to pick it up this weekend. David. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Carder >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:40 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: PDP-11/23 (free) >>> >>> Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to >>> others or keep it for themselves? >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM >>> Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) >>> >>> >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. >>> > >>> > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. >>> > >>> > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, >>> > printer, and VT100 terminal. >>> > >>> > Located in Merrimack NH. >>> > >>> > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. >>> > >>> > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 >>> > >>> > >>> From allain at panix.com Wed May 12 14:47:40 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <001101c43859$fccdb140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to > others or keep it for themselves? Based on prior replies, I might fear for certain peoples' marriage being "parted out" in legal custody disputes. John A. From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 14:51:44 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database Message-ID: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks who visit here? If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", "items for trade/sale", etc. I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, etc. Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. Ashley From torquil at chemist.com Wed May 12 15:10:10 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <00ad01c4385d$221df880$0500a8c0@floyd> > If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", > "items for trade/sale", etc. Something like this would be great, even if it is just a software package for one's own private uses. I mainly just want to catalog and archive information about my own 'collection', whether it be on or offline. I encourage you to go ahead, there is no such thing as too much of a good thing. ;) -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 15:18:26 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <00ad01c4385d$221df880$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <001101c4385e$48da3dc0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I would create it as a web-based, self-service application available on the web to registered members. It could perhaps be associated with this list, if the guys running the list approve (Jay?). I'll create a test-run version (in my spare time) and let everyone test it out. If you like it, we can keep it. Other ideas and thoughts? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > > > It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", > > "items for trade/sale", etc. > > Something like this would be great, even if it is just a software package > for one's own private uses. I mainly just want to catalog and archive > information about my own 'collection', whether it be on or offline. > > I encourage you to go ahead, there is no such thing as too much of a good > thing. ;) > > -- > Thanks, > Torquil MacCorkle, III > Lexington, Virginia > From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed May 12 15:24:23 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: > (the wife calls it by another name that starts with the > letter "s") S.H.I.T.E. (rhymes with kite) - Second Hand Information Technology Equipment. No shame in that. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 15:00:04 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that > documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks > who visit here? I'd certainly be interested in such a database, but if the interface to it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will not be participating at all actively. For my own part, I'm mostly a Sun person, concentrating on the period from late sun4c to the early sun4u. I'm mostly not interested in anything without an MMU or otherwise incapable of running some flavour of Unix, but not totally - for example, I have a 68hc11 development board I wouldn't mind another one of. I'd love to get hold of anything that runs four-year-old NetBSD that I don't already have an example of, especially if it's a CPU architecture I don't have, notably mmeye/evbsh3 (the Super-H SH3) or pc532. I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial digital size and reasonably small physical size, as I have an hp300 that's been gathering dust because I have almost no disk for it - or anything equivalent, such as a converter between HP-IB and something commoner such as IDE or SCSI. I also have a small number of Sun cards (mostly third-party) which are useless to me for lack of documentation, and I would love to find out anything anyone can tell me about them. I can't compose a list at the moment (I'm not near the cards), but if such a database is to be kept somewhere I can certainly make such a list. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 15:27:50 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate References: Message-ID: <002a01c4385f$99354430$a0340f14@mcothran1> :-) That's close! - Ashley. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:24 PM Subject: RE: RE: Computer Estate > > > (the wife calls it by another name that starts with the > > letter "s") > > S.H.I.T.E. (rhymes with kite) - Second Hand Information > Technology Equipment. > > No shame in that. > > Lee. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed May 12 15:35:11 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:51 PM Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks who visit here? If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", "items for trade/sale", etc. I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, etc. Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. Ashley _________________________ I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you when you're making a change for them.) I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of interest. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm and : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm The latter is my personal collecting/family site but both versions of the list are complete and up-to-date as of right now. We get letters from the site now and then, which I forward to all members no matter where they are or what they collect. Just got one yesterday from South Florida from someone with a raft of PC stuff. bm From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 15:38:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 12, 2004 02:39:33 PM Message-ID: <200405122038.i4CKchdB012904@onyx.spiritone.com> > So was my fathers. Now my house is that way. I think it's hereditary! Is > there anyone on this list that ISN'T a packrat? I find that it is, though the person originally afflicted with the problem also seems to have generally lived through the Great Depression. What gets me is my fathers collection of old newspapers and empty packing material. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 15:44:27 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> from "Brian Mahoney" at May 12, 2004 04:35:11 PM Message-ID: <200405122044.i4CKiS5U013314@onyx.spiritone.com> > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but > it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep > from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you > when you're making a change for them.) > > I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have > thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole > lot of interest. > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm Two comments on the lack of interest. How many people are aware it exists, and how many people are afriad of such a list making them a target? Zane From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed May 12 17:30:49 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 12.05.2004: >Message: 24 >Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:12:00 +0200 >From: Jochen Kunz >Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi. > >All this talk about frontpanel emulators... They are exciting... > >So I have this (mostly) working PDP-11/34, my one and only UniBus >machine. It came with a RK07 drive. But the system was stored under bad >conditions for years. There is rust and corrosion _everywhere_. The >machine works so far but the drive is quite rotten. I have no other >UniBus disk drive interfaces so I need either a new RK07 (unlikely) or >a replacement for the entire conroler / drive combination or: > >What about a RK07 drive emulating hardware? >A microcontroler with some TTLs to interface to the RK611 controler on >one side and a compact FLASH card on the other. Maybe cache RAM in front >of the FLASH to reduce write cycles to the FLASH. 32 MB is enough for a >RK07 disk, even if the emulator stores raw data including all sector >headers / trailers. > >Problem: Exact and detaild specs of the RK611 <=> RK0[67] interface. >I found some hints in the "RK06/RK07 Disk Drive User's Manual" but not >enough to build a new drive from scratch. Any pointers? > > >tsch??, >Jochen > Hi Jochen, A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it be a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? That would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with nothing else attached to it. If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it be to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a (better four) CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would become a RK07+ media... If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver issues, just a patch to the block-count to get those extra 4 megs of a 32m CF-card. A project like this would be a perfect entry for the VCFE of next year, isn't it? (Hurry up, only 50 weeks left! :-)) ) Greetings, Frank From ken.rauhala at nokia.com Wed May 12 12:39:27 2004 From: ken.rauhala at nokia.com (ken.rauhala@nokia.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: FW: PDP-11/23 (free, now gone) Message-ID: Hello, the system below has found a new owner, thanks to this mailing list. ken r. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ken.rauhala@nokia.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:33 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) Hi, This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, printer, and VT100 terminal. Located in Merrimack NH. I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 From jdbryan at acm.org Wed May 12 12:40:01 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040511211839.008c1d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> On 11 May 2004 at 21:18, Joe R. wrote: > Cameron, > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my hand that has datasheets for all of these parts. > Z0800110PCS CPU Central Processing Unit, 4.0 MHz segmented version (8 MB addressing). > Z08030AB1 Z-SCC Serial Communications Controller (dual channel), 6.0 MHz. > Z0803606PSC Z-CIO Counter/Timer and Parallel I/O Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0801010PSC Z-MMU Memory Management Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0858110PSC Clock Generator and Controller, 6.0 MHz. The data sheets average about 30 pages per part. Unless someone has already done so, I can scan and PDF these if you wish. Are you interested only in the features overview/general description for each, i.e., the first two or so pages (which would be quick), or the complete datasheets (which would be not-so-quick)? -- Dave From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 16:49:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <9DB588B4-A43F-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > > On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > > > >> Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of > >> some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved > >> it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS > >> (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). > >> > >> I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... > > > > I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also > > have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... > > > > Really? Does it work? I don't know why I'd want to acquire one of > these, but I do... *grin* Hi Mark, I'm not interested in parting with it, but if you're nearby you're welcome to come over and play with it, or even bring it back to your place for an extended borrow. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Wed May 12 16:52:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1><00ad01c4385d$221df880$0500a8c0@floyd> <001101c4385e$48da3dc0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <021601c4386b$78133f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> The friendliest way to do this seems to be a webring where everybody has their own page, and all are linked together, making something like a neighborhood block party, where a visitor can go from person'd place to the next. Even though I've worked with databases, they seem too conforming and impersonal. I've held back in making a page (shy?) but would get in it quickly if classiccmp started a community (accent: unity) like this. BTW I've seen several of the database attempts, but few that appeal. maybe we should look at those first and see what's good/bad with them first. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 16:51:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that > documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the > folks who visit here? > > If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > > It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", > "items for trade/sale", etc. > > I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as > on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can > go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, > etc. > > Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing > already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. Version Dos of the VCM will be coming out soon and will address a lot of this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 17:25:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511211839.008c1d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512182518.008c1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:40 PM 5/12/04 -0400, you wrote: >On 11 May 2004 at 21:18, Joe R. wrote: > >> Cameron, >> >> Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > >I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my hand >that has datasheets for all of these parts. > > >> Z0800110PCS CPU > >Central Processing Unit, 4.0 MHz segmented version (8 MB addressing). That makes sense. It looks the memory on these is arranged as 7Mb x 32 bit. > > >> Z08030AB1 Z-SCC > >Serial Communications Controller (dual channel), 6.0 MHz. > > >> Z0803606PSC Z-CIO > >Counter/Timer and Parallel I/O Unit, 4.0 MHz. > > >> Z0801010PSC Z-MMU > >Memory Management Unit, 4.0 MHz. > > >> Z0858110PSC > >Clock Generator and Controller, 6.0 MHz. > > >The data sheets average about 30 pages per part. Unless someone has >already done so, I can scan and PDF these if you wish. Are you interested >only in the features overview/general description for each, i.e., the first >two or so pages (which would be quick), or the complete datasheets (which >would be not-so-quick)? I'd just like to get a quick overview to begin with but if you don't mind scanning the whole thing I can post if on my website or I'm sure that Al would post it on his. Thanks, Joe > > -- Dave > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 17:29:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <021601c4386b$78133f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > BTW I've seen several of the database attempts, but few that appeal. > maybe we should look at those first and see what's good/bad with > them first. Patrick and I are always interested in comments, suggestions, and general feedback on the VCM. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 17:42:50 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040512224250.667.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> if the interface to it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will not be participating How else could it be done? Please be specific. --- der Mouse wrote: > > Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that > > documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks > > who visit here? > > I'd certainly be interested in such a database, but if the interface to > it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will not be participating > at all actively. > > For my own part, I'm mostly a Sun person, concentrating on the period > from late sun4c to the early sun4u. I'm mostly not interested in > anything without an MMU or otherwise incapable of running some flavour > of Unix, but not totally - for example, I have a 68hc11 development > board I wouldn't mind another one of. > > I'd love to get hold of anything that runs four-year-old NetBSD that I > don't already have an example of, especially if it's a CPU architecture > I don't have, notably mmeye/evbsh3 (the Super-H SH3) or pc532. > > I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial digital > size and reasonably small physical size, as I have an hp300 that's been > gathering dust because I have almost no disk for it - or anything > equivalent, such as a converter between HP-IB and something commoner > such as IDE or SCSI. > > I also have a small number of Sun cards (mostly third-party) which are > useless to me for lack of documentation, and I would love to find out > anything anyone can tell me about them. I can't compose a list at the > moment (I'm not near the cards), but if such a database is to be kept > somewhere I can certainly make such a list. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 17:54:32 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <021601c4386b$78133f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040512225432.1785.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Webring and unity: that's a good idea. I think one problem with web-based collector's lists is that too many people want to be one who 'owns' the list. It is a GOOD thing that so many people care about this hobby and want to see an authoritative directory, but is a BAD thing that they end of overlapping, ultimately creating a lack of interest. Perhaps it's Darwinian. For example, even though there are (I think) 500-700 people on this list and on CCtalk combined, there are still many more people who maybe aren't 'collectors' per se but who are still interested, and those people probably just Google whenever the need arises, and find their way to sites such as www.old-computers.com -- these people probably never know cctalk/cctech exists -- however these casual collectors are the ones we should be trying to lure deeper into the hobby. We all have to stop being introspective geeks and start being extrovertive advocates. Otherwise, isolated web sites and eBay will be our doom. --- John Allain wrote: > The friendliest way to do this seems to be a webring where everybody > has their own page, and all are linked together, making something like > a neighborhood block party, where a visitor can go from person'd place > to the next. Even though I've worked with databases, they seem too > conforming and impersonal. > I've held back in making a page (shy?) but would get in it quickly if > classiccmp started a community (accent: unity) like this. > BTW I've seen several of the database attempts, but few that appeal. > maybe we should look at those first and see what's good/bad with > them first. > > John A. > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 17:58:53 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 04:00:04PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: > I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial digital > size and reasonably small physical size... The only HPIB disks I have _are_ of trivial digital size and _non_ trivial physical size - Commodore D9060 and D9090 units (5MB and 7.5MB, 5.25"-full height MFM drives inside). I keep thinking of trying to rewrite the ROM code and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. One limitation, naturally, is the filesystem - it tops out at around 16MB (it manages cylinder, head and sectors internally as bytes - the "normal" geometry is something like 153 x 4|6 x 32). One could re-write the filesystem, since I am not aware of any PET apps that accessed the drive on a track/sector basis, unlike lots of floppy programs, but that's a whole lot more work than implementing a larger drive as N units of 255x255x255 sectors of 256 bytes. What probably makes more sense, naturally, is to not attempt to make the drive handle larger disks internally, but rather to make a D9060/D9090 _compatible_ drive, with a subset of C= DOS 3.0, using all modern technology, down to either a modern hard drive, or perhaps a CF card. All you'd really need for that is your favorite uP with an IEEE-488 interface, and a few megs of local storage. I haven't played much with HP IEEE-488 devices... where would I find the command set (i.e. what strings to send the drive over the GPIB bus) for mass storage? The other device I'm curious about is a 9-track HP drive I have, but that can wait until I'm home and have it in front of me... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-May-2004 22:36 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -65.5 F (-54.2 C) Windchill -124.6 F (-87 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.4 kts Grid 034 Barometer 687.6 mb (10341. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 17:56:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512144953.00b2b680@pop3.online.no> from "Jens Laland" at May 12, 4 02:51:37 pm Message-ID: > > Hi > > I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 > datasheet (Ref.: Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy controller? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:00:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at May 12, 4 07:16:35 am Message-ID: > I believe that this is a problem with virtually *any* component you could > choose. The newer stuff seems to generally have shorter lifespans. I > believe this is an outcome of having more choices -- none of the "newer" > chips (with perhaps some exceptions from Intel) has enough of a following to > be readily available down the road. As you said, the newer chips are worse. I've come across chips that have gone out of production in the time between the announcement and the distributors getting stocks of them. Hmmm.... Personally, the only 8-bit CPU I think can be depended on to stay around is the Intel 8031 family. It's used everywhere, and many manufacturers either make it, or make 'improved' versions. You can ignroe the 'improvements' if you like. I thought the 6809 was getting somewhat hard to find now :-(. The Z80 and 6502 were a lot more popular and are still listed in catalogues over here (the 6809 doesn't seem to be.) As for SRAM and EPROMs. I am sure both will be around in 10 years time, even if at a vastly increased capacity. And just as now we put 2764s in place of 2716s with a few minor mods, I guess in the future we'll make up daughterbaords to put the latest SMD EPROMs into 28 pin DIL sockets. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:04:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 12, 4 05:12:00 pm Message-ID: > > Hi. > > All this talk about frontpanel emulators... > > So I have this (mostly) working PDP-11/34, my one and only UniBus > machine. It came with a RK07 drive. But the system was stored under bad > conditions for years. There is rust and corrosion _everywhere_. The Yeas ago I bought an RK07 which had been flooded by a burst pipe. It was cheap, and I figured that at least the plastic parts would still be useable. When I took it off the stand, water poured out of the hollow baseplate (this is part of the air duct on the RK07, Anyway, I cleaned it all up, cleaned the heads, cleaned the connectors, lubricated the fan etc. And then tried it out. Worked fine! > machine works so far but the drive is quite rotten. I have no other > UniBus disk drive interfaces so I need either a new RK07 (unlikely) or > a replacement for the entire conroler / drive combination or: > > What about a RK07 drive emulating hardware? Wouldn't it be simpler to make a Unibus card with the flash memory and interface on it that pretended to be a disk controller? The Unibus is fairly well documented and quite simple. [...] > > Problem: Exact and detaild specs of the RK611 <=3D> RK0[67] interface. > I found some hints in the "RK06/RK07 Disk Drive User's Manual" but not > enough to build a new drive from scratch. Any pointers?=20 Do you have the printsets for the drive and controller? I managed to work out quite a bit of the interface from those. -tony > --=20 > > > tsch=FC=DF, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:07:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> from "Bogilady@aol.com" at May 12, 4 11:37:54 am Message-ID: > I am unable to make a complete list, because of the =E2=80=9Cmouse in a maze= > =E2=80=9D=20 > environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow paths through th= > e living=20 > and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are look-in, not step-in rooms. The=20 > garage =E2=80=A6 well it is a very careful adventure, and only a quarter of=20= > the way=20 > ventured. Furniture consists of workbenches and shelves mostly. He collected= Are you sure this isn't in south-west London, England ? This sounds exactly like this house. Machines, tools, test gear everywhere. You have to climb over machines to get into some of the rooms, etc... -tony From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed May 12 17:46:11 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <001601c43852$ed0f8eb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512154315.02f33ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 02:57 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >I defnitely inherited the packrat gene. >The biggest marital "disputes" that my wife and I have are >related to my "stuff" (the wife calls it by another name that >starts with the letter "s") being all over the place. This is actually a good thing. It wouldn't be as much fun if our SOs encouraged our behavior. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed May 12 18:18:28 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512154812.02f32030@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 03:51 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that >documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the >folks who visit here? Maybe something like a profile, lots of check boxes etc. places for urls etc. Thats the easy part, who has access and what kind etc. is the hard question From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed May 12 18:57:25 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet Message-ID: <200405122357.i4CNvOhc074131@huey.classiccmp.org> At 23:56 12/05/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 >> datasheet (Ref.: > >Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy >controller? > >-tony Yes it is. The only real difference is that the Rockwell chip allows up to 255 step pulses when zeroing the head, while the Nec device will fail after 77. Means you may have to do it twice with the NEC device if you have 80 track drives). You can grab the 765 datasheet from my "parse.com" page (see below), it's available under the "Dunfield 6809" entry (I used it in the design of this machine). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 17:57:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <20040512224250.667.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040512224250.667.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405122345.TAA17684@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> if the interface to it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will >> not be participating > How else could it be done? Please be specific. (1) Use email for sending data in, email and/or FTP for serving data. (2) Set up an ssh/telnet-to-here-and-login-as-this-user CLI. (3) A special-purpose mud, on which people could build representations of their collections. If you want a more precise design, I can try to come up with one for you, though I'm somewhat limited in my desire to design things in detail without at least a reasonable chance they might get built. I've built enough software that I'm confident I could design and build any of the above - or probably even all of the above talking to the same backend database. None of those precludes having a Web interface _as well_, of course. It's the Web-_only_ things that are problematic. (I actually suspect that being Web-only, per se, is only part of the problem, and that a nontrivial part of the problem is the cultural baggage that so far, in my experience, correlates amazingly well with building Web-only interfaces, cultural baggage that assumes nobody ever wants to script access to the interface, everyone is perfectly happy to use commercial binary-only pointy-clicky software and in particular whichever particular commercial binary-only pointy-clicky thing the designer thinks is the One True Web Interface with all the security holes enabled (Java, JavaScript, ActiveX, etc). It likely is possible to build a decent Web interface - for my values of "decent" - to such a thing, but I haven't seen it done yet.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed May 12 18:57:06 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C22@email1.parl.net> Only a very minor detail, but I beleive that the certain Zilog chip designations also indicate the max clock speed. For instance the Z0800110PSC is a Z8001 (Z08001.. portion), with a max clock speed of 10MHz (..10.. portion), and the PSC indicates a palstic DIP package. So I would guess that the CPU, clock generator, and MMUs are 10MHz, and the Z-CIO is 6MHz. The Z-SCC is probably an older chip that predates the current Zilog chip designation standard. > Z0800110PCS CPU Central Processing Unit, 4.0 MHz segmented version (8 MB addressing). > Z08030AB1 Z-SCC Serial Communications Controller (dual channel), 6.0 MHz. > Z0803606PSC Z-CIO Counter/Timer and Parallel I/O Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0801010PSC Z-MMU Memory Management Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0858110PSC Clock Generator and Controller, 6.0 MHz. David From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 18:50:14 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial >> digital size and reasonably small physical size... > The only HPIB disks I have _are_ of trivial digital size and _non_ > trivial physical size - Me too. I have two drives of ca. 100-200 MB each, in boxes perhaps 1'x1'x8", and one drive of about half a gig in a rackmount unit that takes up something like 8U or 12U (full-height), is full depth (something like three feet?), weighs approximately what I do, and pulls about 11 amps mains current briefly on startup, 4 or 5 amps idling. > Commodore D9060 and D9090 units (5MB and 7.5MB, 5.25"-full height MFM > drives inside). I keep thinking of trying to rewrite the ROM code > and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. The software-driven SASI port of what? The machine I want to use this on is a NetBSD/hp300 system, a 319 or 320 or some such. > I haven't played much with HP IEEE-488 devices... where would I find > the command set (i.e. what strings to send the drive over the GPIB > bus) for mass storage? Darned if I know. The NetBSD/hp300 driver might have some of that in it, but it also might not. I ought to go look. I have what I think is probably an IEEE-488 interface for a SPARC (it's an SBus card); perhaps I should try to scare up docs on it and see if I can put it in a machine and build a disk server for it. That should be sufficiently hacky. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spectre at floodgap.com Wed May 12 19:16:45 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> from "J. David Bryan" at "May 12, 4 01:40:01 pm" Message-ID: <200405130016.RAA15272@floodgap.com> > > Cameron, > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > > I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my hand > that has datasheets for all of these parts. What he said. ^_^ -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- SOFTWARE -- formal evening attire for female computer analysts. ------------ From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed May 12 19:35:25 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622468@email1.parl.net> > > > Cameron, > > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > > > > I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my > > hand > > that has datasheets for all of these parts. > > What he said. ^_^ Any chance that the data book has a datasheet for the Z8016. I got some on ebay and I don't exactly know what they are. I think they are a some form of DMA chip as they are labelled Z-DTC, which I have read somewhere means DMA Transfer Controller. David From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 12 19:37:03 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040512173616.A17069@newshell.lmi.net> > > I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 > > datasheet (Ref.: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy > controller? Is that similar to the Intel 8272? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed May 12 19:40:21 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <200405122044.i4CKiS5U013314@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <001701c43882$f1537920$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but > > it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep > > from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you > > when you're making a change for them.) > > > > I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have > > thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole > > lot of interest. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > Two comments on the lack of interest. How many people are aware it exists, > and how many people are afriad of such a list making them a target? > > Zane A target for what? Spam? Offers of free computers? Information and price quotes? I get all of those but that's why I use hotmail/yahoo etc. except for this list. Since 1995 I've answered every email I've received about computers and pricing, where to find collectors and many offers of free computers. I don't mind it one bit. Really don't know why anyone would be afraid of being a target. I figure it's a service I am offering and my reward is free computers ... lots of them. As for people not knowing it exists, the fifth search result in Google for 'computer collectors list' is a reference from classiccomp.Gives the url and complete info on how to get listed. You're right though, there should be more mention of it. Don't know what else I can do except send my info to Google every now and then plus mention it on here. Hey, go for it. The more lists there are, the more valuable stuff is kept out of the landfill. If there are a hundred lists, it'll be a lot easier for folks to contact collectors. If you've got some better ideas on marketing such a list, take the ball and run with it. I'll support anyone who does. I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can do this. bm From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 19:39:25 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 07:50:14PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: I wrote: > > The only HPIB disks I have _are_ of trivial digital size and _non_ > > trivial physical size - > > > Commodore D9060 and D9090 units (5MB and 7.5MB, 5.25"-full height MFM > > drives inside). I keep thinking of trying to rewrite the ROM code > > and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. > > The software-driven SASI port of what? The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs in the drive enclosure, a "DOS board" (C='s term) with one processor to talk GPIB to the outside world, and another processor to talk SASI to the other board, a Xebec? SASI<->ST-506 board. The drive mech is either a Tandon TM602S or a TM603S. The idea was to upgrade the "DOS board" firmware to speak SCSI rather than SASI (same electrical interface, _slightly_ different command set) to use a more modern 50MB-200MB drive of the sort I have in stacks on the shelf. Slightly easier than implementing a command-set compatible drive from scratch. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 00:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -66.9 F (-55.0 C) Windchill -130.3 F (-90.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.7 kts Grid 031 Barometer 688.1 mb (10321. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 19:52:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040513005200.GB24326@mapo1.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:00:39AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > As you said, the newer chips are worse. I've come across chips that have > gone out of production in the time between the announcement and the > distributors getting stocks of them. Hmmm.... No kidding... the project I'm working on has had to change chips at least once, mid-stream. > Personally, the only 8-bit CPU I think can be depended on to stay around > is the Intel 8031 family. It's used everywhere, and many manufacturers > either make it, or make 'improved' versions. You can ignroe the > 'improvements' if you like. Those certainly are popular and prevalent. > I thought the 6809 was getting somewhat hard to find now :-(. The Z80 and > 6502 were a lot more popular and are still listed in catalogues over here > (the 6809 doesn't seem to be.) I'm personally a big 6502 fan, but I also recognize that it's not universally popular. > As for SRAM and EPROMs. I am sure both will be around in 10 years time, > even if at a vastly increased capacity. And just as now we put 2764s in > place of 2716s with a few minor mods, I guess in the future we'll make up > daughterbaords to put the latest SMD EPROMs into 28 pin DIL sockets. Well... that _is_ the the sort of thing that's going to be harder to find in 10 years... DIP parts... SMD adapters will work, but if you have to pay for lots of them... they'll get expensive. One for an EPROM isn't too bad, but dozens? Fortunately, lots of us have lots of DIP parts lying around, enough to last years and years. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 00:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -67.2 F (-55.1 C) Windchill -127.2 F (-88.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.5 kts Grid 022 Barometer 688.1 mb (10321. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 20:02:55 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001701c43882$f1537920$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: I appreciate the encouragement. A searchable database is very do-able, as long as we can get interested folks to contribute to it. A web ring is also a good thing and is very do-able as well. There are things that can be done to make your pages move toward the front of Google searches so that they can be found. I also agree with the earlier comment that mentioned the word UNITY. I understand that it is often hard to get a large group of folks organized for such a task, but even if we can get some portion of the folks here to participate, I do believe it will be beneficial. I will hold off on doing anything for a few days and see what other types of ideas folks have. If we do move forward on such a thing, I think that it will be more successful if everyone has input. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:40 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but > > it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep > > from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you > > when you're making a change for them.) > > > > I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have > > thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole > > lot of interest. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > Two comments on the lack of interest. How many people are aware it exists, > and how many people are afriad of such a list making them a target? > > Zane A target for what? Spam? Offers of free computers? Information and price quotes? I get all of those but that's why I use hotmail/yahoo etc. except for this list. Since 1995 I've answered every email I've received about computers and pricing, where to find collectors and many offers of free computers. I don't mind it one bit. Really don't know why anyone would be afraid of being a target. I figure it's a service I am offering and my reward is free computers ... lots of them. As for people not knowing it exists, the fifth search result in Google for 'computer collectors list' is a reference from classiccomp.Gives the url and complete info on how to get listed. You're right though, there should be more mention of it. Don't know what else I can do except send my info to Google every now and then plus mention it on here. Hey, go for it. The more lists there are, the more valuable stuff is kept out of the landfill. If there are a hundred lists, it'll be a lot easier for folks to contact collectors. If you've got some better ideas on marketing such a list, take the ball and run with it. I'll support anyone who does. I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can do this. bm From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed May 12 20:58:45 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: Message-ID: <40A2D655.9E3BE55D@compsys.to> >"David V. Corbin" wrote: > I have been in touch with Ken. He has a local person interested. If that > does not pan out, I will be going up to pick it up this weekend. > > From: > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 Jerome Fine replies: Since I switched to using RT-11 / TSX-PLUS and other PDP-11 software under these OSs using an emulator that runs 15 times as fast as a real DEC PDP-11/93, I don't really have much interest in the real PDP-11 hardware. And since I am a software addict, that suits me perfectly. BUT, I am attempting to preserve as much RT-11 / TSX-PLUS software as possible. I am in the last stages of getting V1-0 of a CD with 13 different distributions of RT-11 ready (from V1-15 to V05.03). So having access to as many of the old RT-11 distributions as possible is the goal. If possible, I would like a copy of all of the RT-11 distributions and the layered products. Are there any RT-11 distributions among the media, including BASIC and FORTRAN? Is there some way that you could copy them? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 20:56:17 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. >> The software-driven SASI port of what? > The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs in the drive > enclosure, a "DOS board" (C='s term) with one processor to talk GPIB > to the outside world, and another processor to talk SASI to the other > board, a Xebec? SASI<->ST-506 board. The drive mech is either a > Tandon TM602S or a TM603S. This...does not agree with the reality I find upon opening up the first HP-IB disk that came to hand (a 7958). The HP-IB connector is soldered to a board which speaks to the disk drive - a Micropolis 1355, not a TManything - over two ribbon cables. Except for stuff internal to the 1355, the only other PCB in the box is the power supply. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 21:14:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001701c43882$f1537920$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I > think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can > do this. Again, this is exactly what the Vintage Computer Marketplace database feature does/will do. The next iteration of the system will have most (or all) of this functionality in place. There are other tangible benefits to using the VCM to keep your catalog online, including being able to easily convert a database entry into a for sale/auction listing and also transfering records from one collection to another with a single click and thereby automatically creating a line of provenance for a particular system. Plus many more cool features... http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vrs at msn.com Wed May 12 21:35:48 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > > I believe that this is a problem with virtually *any* component you could > > choose. The newer stuff seems to generally have shorter lifespans. I > > believe this is an outcome of having more choices -- none of the "newer" > > chips (with perhaps some exceptions from Intel) has enough of a following to > > be readily available down the road. > > As you said, the newer chips are worse. I've come across chips that have > gone out of production in the time between the announcement and the > distributors getting stocks of them. Hmmm.... > > Personally, the only 8-bit CPU I think can be depended on to stay around > is the Intel 8031 family. It's used everywhere, and many manufacturers > either make it, or make 'improved' versions. You can ignroe the > 'improvements' if you like. I fear you are correct :-). That's not good news for the "Intel-yuck!" crowd. > I thought the 6809 was getting somewhat hard to find now :-(. The Z80 and > 6502 were a lot more popular and are still listed in catalogues over here > (the 6809 doesn't seem to be.) The 6809 can still be had from Mouser, and a few other places with much better prices. In this case, I think the 680x was originally chosen for the ease of programming. I concede that the 8031 and the Z80 are both more available (and likely to remain so). I don't see 6502 at, say, Digikey. They do seem to be as available as the 6809, though. > As for SRAM and EPROMs. I am sure both will be around in 10 years time, > even if at a vastly increased capacity. And just as now we put 2764s in > place of 2716s with a few minor mods, I guess in the future we'll make up > daughterbaords to put the latest SMD EPROMs into 28 pin DIL sockets. Maybe we should all design them into everything we do, in an effort to sustain demand for them at a level where they are considered worth providing :-). (BTW, for anyone who thinks that might actually work: there is a real world out there, waiting to be discovered.) Vince From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 21:59:32 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, I don't want to do duplicate work. How will folks put their information into your system and search for stuff, etc? It sounds like you're already planning to do these things that I brought up in my original post. When will your database be available for us to put our name, interests, catalog, location, want list, etc. into? Something like that would be of great benefit to folks here and would sure make searching easier. Thanks, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:14 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database On Wed, 12 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I > think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can > do this. Again, this is exactly what the Vintage Computer Marketplace database feature does/will do. The next iteration of the system will have most (or all) of this functionality in place. There are other tangible benefits to using the VCM to keep your catalog online, including being able to easily convert a database entry into a for sale/auction listing and also transfering records from one collection to another with a single click and thereby automatically creating a line of provenance for a particular system. Plus many more cool features... http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 21:03:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Forward from the Computer Collector's List Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512220327.008bc590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FYI I went over and visited Ed today and bought the o'scope. He has a nice old IBM PC XT if anyone is interested in one. He's the original owner and thinks that he still has the original reciepts, etc for it. He bought it WITHOUT a hard drive! It still has the two original HH floppy drives with the * on them. He's installed a hard card and a 3 1/2" floppy drive. It still has the original floppy drive controller in it. I think he has all or most of the other original cards for it. He has several different video cards for it including a Paradise CGA card that can drive a monochrome monitor. He has a Amber Amdek monitor for it and I think he also has a VGA monitor and video card for it. The machine is in very good condition. If anyone wants a good original IBM computer they should give him a call. Joe At 07:09 PM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: > >This came in today for anyone in the southeast US. Doesn't sound that >collectible but who knows. > >Brian > >>From: "Ed Elkes" >>To: >>Subject: Lost enthusiasm >>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:16:04 -0400 >> >> >>I never thought I'd say this, but I've lost my enthusiasm for keeping the >>old machines running. Original IBM PC-XT, Compaq 386-33, ALR Pentium-133. >>Just not in the mood, anymore, I guess. >> >>I'm looking for anyone who is looking for, not only these PC's, but scads >>of >>boards, SCSI controllers and drives, server cases, Netware manuals, RAM, >>etc. I've held on to enough parts to rebuild these machines several times, >>and now I would like to find someone who needs or can use them for their >>own >>hobby machines. These machines all ran on my Netware network, which also >>has gone away. >> >>I've placed a list of what I've sorted out, so far, on my Web page, so you >>can see what there is and see if you, or anyone you know, might be >>interested. The list will be updated as items have sold and more items >>have >>been added. I'm not through uncovering stuff. Everything is IBM PC-based, >>8 and 16 bit. I never followed Apple or the earlier kit brands, although I >>did have a few. >> >>The Web page is www.geocities.com/ed_9213. More detailed info for the >>above >>computers is listed there, as well as the miscellaneous items. Like, where >>would you still find an 8-bit multi I/O card with 2FD 1S 1P 1G & clock, or >>a >>B/W VGA monitor? How about PC DOS 2.1, or a hard drive controller that will >>handle 8 IDE drives at once? Just a sample. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Ed Elkes >>Lake Mary, Florida (Orlando Area) >>ed9213@cfl.rr.com >> From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Wed May 12 22:17:43 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c43898$db266ed0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > > I think the key would be to have a searchable database > online. Someone > > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly > find them. To elaborate on what Sellam said about the Vintage Computer Marketplace, even the current version can do this, and although the current incarnation of that process is a bit more manual than we'd ultimately like it to be, it's far less manual than sending email to a bunch of lists or webmasters of various sites and waiting for replies. Specifically, on the current version of the site, you will find in the left navigation a "Wanted" link... This page presents a list of what all current VCM members have in their wish lists, and who is looking for them. You can contact them by clicking on their name. If you, for example, have a PDP-11 you wish to sell, you can readily find who would be interested in buying. If there is recent history for that item, it also displays the high, low, and average price for it over the last 12 months, so you can get some datapoints on value. If you happen have one of those items in your collection, it will alert you to that fact (so you don't have to remember). Also, wherever you see someone's user name (handle as we call it), you can click to see their profile, and you'll see the listing of what's in their collection. If an item is for sale, there's a link to the listing. Check out mine (incomplete, but most of the important stuff is there, and yes, it's extremely modest by most of your standards, I'm sure)... http://marketplace.vintage.org/showuser.cfm?handle=patrick You'll also see my personal wish list there, if you're interested. :-) We chose not to put a site-wide search of people's collections in the first revision because of privacy/abuse concerns. We were concerned that VCM members would get sheafs of email offering to take that off their hands for . Ironically, even without that search capability, this is happening anyway. People email sellers based on listings they post for sale/auction. But in the last few months, what we've heard so far is that (1) people really want to search collections across the entire membership base, and (2) some people want their collections to be private. The former is coming, and we already support the latter. So, we're getting there, and we're listening. A lot of people have had great feedback, and a lot of that feedback has been incorporated into the site already. Please keep it coming, but here's a hint: feedback (politely worded) from registered members who have actually used the site (beyond just registering and skimming a few pages), carries more weight. Ashley: Try us out. It's free. It's painless. It's run by fellow collectors. Patrick :-) From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 22:38:57 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001701c43898$db266ed0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: Patrick, Thanks for the info! I'll check it out. It sounds like you're already mostly there. I'm still learning about the various resources available and seemed to notice a lack of a collector profile site/database, but it was likely due to my lack of knowledge of what's available. If I'm looking for stuff, I look first on eBay and VCM, then Google. I was trying to make a list for myself of who had what types of collections, so I would have a reference. Once I take a short tour, I'll give you some feedback, (constructive, not destructive!). Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:18 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: IDEA - Collector interest database > > I think the key would be to have a searchable database > online. Someone > > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly > find them. To elaborate on what Sellam said about the Vintage Computer Marketplace, even the current version can do this, and although the current incarnation of that process is a bit more manual than we'd ultimately like it to be, it's far less manual than sending email to a bunch of lists or webmasters of various sites and waiting for replies. Specifically, on the current version of the site, you will find in the left navigation a "Wanted" link... This page presents a list of what all current VCM members have in their wish lists, and who is looking for them. You can contact them by clicking on their name. If you, for example, have a PDP-11 you wish to sell, you can readily find who would be interested in buying. If there is recent history for that item, it also displays the high, low, and average price for it over the last 12 months, so you can get some datapoints on value. If you happen have one of those items in your collection, it will alert you to that fact (so you don't have to remember). Also, wherever you see someone's user name (handle as we call it), you can click to see their profile, and you'll see the listing of what's in their collection. If an item is for sale, there's a link to the listing. Check out mine (incomplete, but most of the important stuff is there, and yes, it's extremely modest by most of your standards, I'm sure)... http://marketplace.vintage.org/showuser.cfm?handle=patrick You'll also see my personal wish list there, if you're interested. :-) We chose not to put a site-wide search of people's collections in the first revision because of privacy/abuse concerns. We were concerned that VCM members would get sheafs of email offering to take that off their hands for . Ironically, even without that search capability, this is happening anyway. People email sellers based on listings they post for sale/auction. But in the last few months, what we've heard so far is that (1) people really want to search collections across the entire membership base, and (2) some people want their collections to be private. The former is coming, and we already support the latter. So, we're getting there, and we're listening. A lot of people have had great feedback, and a lot of that feedback has been incorporated into the site already. Please keep it coming, but here's a hint: feedback (politely worded) from registered members who have actually used the site (beyond just registering and skimming a few pages), carries more weight. Ashley: Try us out. It's free. It's painless. It's run by fellow collectors. Patrick :-) From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 22:32:05 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database Message-ID: <20040513033206.2484.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Patrick R. wrote >>>> So, we're getting there, and we're listening. This week I bought an Apple Newton through the VCM. I noticed that the system automatically moved the unit from the seller's "my collection" list into my own list. That was pretty cool. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 22:36:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet In-Reply-To: <20040512173616.A17069@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at May 12, 4 05:37:03 pm Message-ID: > > > > I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 > > > datasheet (Ref.: > > On Wed, 12 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy > > controller? > > Is that similar to the Intel 8272? Err, sorry, it's a typo on my part. I meant 8272 (of course)! -tony From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 22:56:58 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <20040513033206.2484.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm checking it out now. I just registered. I like what I see so far. Is there a way to see a list of all the registered members and their interests? What I'd like to do is produce a list of all registered users who are interested in PDP-11's, for example. I know that some users would want to remain private, and that's ok too. They just wouldn't show up on the list. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of evan Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: IDEA - Collector interest database Patrick R. wrote >>>> So, we're getting there, and we're listening. This week I bought an Apple Newton through the VCM. I noticed that the system automatically moved the unit from the seller's "my collection" list into my own list. That was pretty cool. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 22:50:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > I don't want to do duplicate work. How will folks put their > information into your system and search for stuff, etc? It > sounds like you're already planning to do these things that I > brought up in my original post. When will your database be > available for us to put our name, interests, catalog, location, > want list, etc. into? Something like that would be of great > benefit to folks here and would sure make searching easier. Most (all?) of those features are already in place. There are just a few loose ends to tie up to make it complete and fully functional. For instance, right now there's not an easy way to find another user's collection, though you can get a complete listing of the various wanted items and contact the wanting users directly. Anyway, the next iteration of the system will tie up a lot of these loose ends. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 23:00:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Is there a way to see a list of all the registered members and their > interests? Not yet. > What I'd like to do is produce a list of all registered users who are > interested in PDP-11's, for example. I know that some users would want > to remain private, and that's ok too. They just wouldn't show up on the > list. So far, the only thing you can do is go to 'Power Search" (just below the "Quick Search" box) and select Brand: DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION (or DEC) and then all the current ad listings featuring DEC items will appear. You cannot get a listing of all the DEC gear that each user has added to their personal inventory, yet. This is for privacy reasons. In the future, we are contemplating adding the ability for each user to specify if they want items in their personal collection to appear in searches. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 23:39:19 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512154315.02f33ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from "Mike Ford" at May 12, 2004 03:46:11 PM Message-ID: <200405130439.i4D4dJ0G025176@onyx.spiritone.com> > This is actually a good thing. It wouldn't be as much fun if our SOs > encouraged our behavior. Actually it's *DANGEROUS* if they do. Both my wife and I are into collecting Video Game systems. This is a hobby that we both got into together after we got married. As an example of how this can be a problem, she's the one that found our 4-slot Neo Geo arcade cabinet, and we have way to many consoles and handhelds (including his and hers GBA's). Of course her nephews think we're totally cool as a result... Zane From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 23:38:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:56:17PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: I wrote: > > The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs in the drive > > enclosure, a "DOS board" (C='s term) with one processor to talk GPIB > > to the outside world, and another processor to talk SASI to the other > > board, a Xebec? SASI<->ST-506 board. The drive mech is either a > > Tandon TM602S or a TM603S. > > This...does not agree with the reality I find upon opening up the first > HP-IB disk that came to hand (a 7958). The HP-IB connector is soldered > to a board which speaks to the disk drive - a Micropolis 1355, not a > TManything - over two ribbon cables. Except for stuff internal to the > 1355, the only other PCB in the box is the power supply. I wasn't trying to describe _all_ HPIB drives, just the Commodore D9060 and D9090 drives. Your 7958 sounds like a perfectly valid way of doing things... in fact, since it uses a 1355, I'm sort of intrigued (since I have a few on the shelf). I'll have to try to remember that HP model number when I'm digging for drive docs. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 04:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.4 F (-56.3 C) Windchill -132.2 F (-91.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.1 kts Grid 028 Barometer 688.3 mb (10313. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 00:02:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405130505.BAA28599@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs [...] >> This...does not agree with the reality I find upon opening up the >> first HP-IB disk that came to hand (a 7958). [...] > I wasn't trying to describe _all_ HPIB drives, just the Commodore > D9060 and D9090 drives. Ah! I misunderstood. ("When I regained consciousness...." :) > Your 7958 sounds like a perfectly valid way of doing things... in > fact, since it uses a 1355, I'm sort of intrigued (since I have a few > on the shelf). I'll have to try to remember that HP model number > when I'm digging for drive docs. I should poke around and see if I have any other drives with that interface (what is it, ESDI?). If I have any _largeish_ such drives (FVO "largeish" of about "more than about ?G") I'd be extremely tempted to hook one up and see if it works. I also should dig out that SBus IEEE488 card and see if I can scare up any doc on it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 00:28:50 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: AUI multiport? Message-ID: <200405130532.BAA28649@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I have a hazy memory saying that some time back, someone here on the list was looking for an AUI multiport transceiver (ie, a device that presents one host interface and several, usually 8, transceiver interfaces, thus allowing one "real" transceiver to serve multiple hosts). The memory says that I was going to send one I have and don't expect to ever use again to this person, but something intervened and I never sent it. If this sounds like you, drop me a note and I'll see if I can't get it sent off to you. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From musicman38 at comcast.net Thu May 13 00:38:15 2004 From: musicman38 at comcast.net (Musicman38) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase References: <000901c437fa$a4a7d270$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client Terminals. 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. Running Windows CE.. However to my dismay they only have Citrix ICA as a client, and I have a Windows 2000 Server.. I know nothing about Citrix, but from my searching, it's not compatible with my Windows 2000 Server. Question: (1) Is it even worth my buying the Citrix Metaframe software to run on my Windows Server ? (2) Would it be better to upgrade the Internal ROM to the newer version ($50) that has ICA, Plus RDP 5.1 ? Any suggestions greatly appreciated.. ~Phil From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 13 00:51:02 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase In-Reply-To: <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> References: <000901c437fa$a4a7d270$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> Message-ID: <200405130051.02737.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 13 May 2004 00:38, Musicman38 wrote: > I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client > Terminals. 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. > Running Windows CE.. > > However to my dismay they only have Citrix ICA as a client, and I > have a Windows 2000 Server.. Not to be rude or anything... but you might try a different mailing list/newsgroup. WinTerms are neither classic(old) or that unique... There are plenty of other PC/Windows related mailing lists/newsgroups out there to help you with your question, filled with people that are generally more knowledgable about that sort of thing. I'm just trying to help; I'm a bit more forgiving than some of the other list members are... :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 01:38:47 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase In-Reply-To: <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Musicman38 wrote: > I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client Terminals. > 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. > Running Windows CE.. Nice! I use a few of those (not the same brand, but thin clients) and its nice and quiet :) > Question: > (1) Is it even worth my buying the Citrix Metaframe software to run on my > Windows Server ? No. > (2) Would it be better to upgrade the Internal ROM to the newer version > ($50) that has ICA, Plus RDP 5.1 ? Yes. That should also get you Telnet, so you can connect to UNIX and VMS hosts in text mode. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 03:51:26 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... Message-ID: Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at first) an apple IIC+ I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial Gems" "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 02:59:39 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:30:49 +0100 Frank Arnold wrote: > A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it be > a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? That > would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with nothing else > attached to it. Sure. But who will fab the big, odd-shaped UniBus boards? Do you have enough UniBus transceiver chips in stock? > If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it be > to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a (better four) > CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would become a RK07+ > media... Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit slice CPU in it. > If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver > issues, There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That is an other issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you have to make the emulation good enough for all operating systems. It may work for a RK611, but what about a UDA50 with its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler that has a T11 with some non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick this in a (cheap, small) FPGA. > A project like this would be a perfect entry for the VCFE of next > year, isn't it? (Hurry up, only 50 weeks left! :-)) ) Yes, that is where the idea for this project was born. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 02:36:53 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 00:04:57 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > When I took it off the stand, water poured out of the hollow > baseplate When I took the fan out of my drive I poured out about a good hand full of rust. The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the RK07 or build a solid state RK07 replacement. > Anyway, I cleaned it all up, cleaned the heads, cleaned the > connectors, lubricated the fan etc. And then tried it out. Worked > fine! Well. I have to take apart the base plate to clean it inside. This is destructive, as the base plate is welded. I already bought a sand blasting unit to "clean" the UniBus box of the machine. > Wouldn't it be simpler to make a Unibus card with the flash memory and > interface on it that pretended to be a disk controller? I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic and maybe a microcontroller a bit more powerfull then a 8 bit Atmel AVR. This seems to be more complex then a solid state RK07 replacement. A RK07 replacement should be doable with a hand full of serial <=> parallel converter chips (data and controll words are transfered serially between drive and controler), a 8 bit Atmel AVR and a FLASH, IDE, whatever disk. > The Unibus is fairly well documented and quite simple. I know. I have the DEC "pdp 11 bus handbook". > Do you have the printsets for the drive and controller? No. I found only the User's Manual. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 04:31:25 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > slice CPU in it. Nope, just logic. > There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That is an other > issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you have to make the > emulation good enough for all operating systems. It may work for a > RK611, but what about a UDA50 with its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler > that has a T11 with some non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick > this in a (cheap, small) FPGA. Well, since I wrote the SimH driver for RK611 (the "hk" driver), I can safely say that emulating this is simple, if the design is microcontroller based. Since we have been bithin' and such about this since forever, why not define a board spec? The Unibus transceivers is indeed an issue- we dont have heaps of those laying around. On the other hand, their exact function and specs are known (see the Peripherals handbook, 1972-ish or so), and we should be able to re-implement them in discrete logic, or bite the bullet and do a pin-compatible replacement, and have 1,000 made. The board itself (not a funny thing, just large) could be a general microcontroller design, with the basic stuff (uNibus interfacing, CSR, BR and such logic) being standard, including a general flash-programmable microcrontroller setup (CPU, RAM, FLASHROM, I/O). The rest is "up to the function", for example an IDE controller with 2.5" laptop drive, CF sockets, or what not. --f From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 05:37:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <200405130505.BAA28599@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> <200405130505.BAA28599@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513103700.GA24799@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:02:41AM -0400, der Mouse wrote: > Ah! I misunderstood. ("When I regained consciousness...." :) Fair enough... > I should poke around and see if I have any other drives with that > interface (what is it, ESDI?). Off the top of my head, I forget what interfaces the 1325, 1335 and 1355 have (I have all of them on the shelf), but yes... find out what the 1355 looks like, and and see what else is like it. > If I have any _largeish_ such drives > (FVO "largeish" of about "more than about ?G") I'd be extremely tempted > to hook one up and see if it works. I have some 1.2GB ESDI drives on an SDI card... they got quite large. > I also should dig out that SBus IEEE488 card and see if I can scare up > any doc on it. I should be so lucky to have an Sbus GPIB card... I do have a couple of ISA cards (and a couple of Qbus cards), but that's it... if I ever end up manufacturing a D9060/D9090-compatitible, it will be with a home-brew machine, perhaps 68000-based (since I have $40K MSRP worth of debugging/development tools). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 10:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.9 F (-56.6 C) Windchill -129.2 F (-89.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14 kts Grid 032 Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 05:58:22 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513105822.GA8726@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:31:25AM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > > slice CPU in it. > Nope, just logic. The RK611, but not a UDA50 or anything else that is "smart". When I go through the work of designing a UniBus board, I would put enough on it to run NetBSD on the controller. The UniBus attachment should be implemented in a FPGA to have maximum flexibility in the hardware. Software on top of this should be a NetBSD kernel driver, perhaps with a userland daemon to support the kernel driver and control it. It would be possible to emulate any UniBus device, including a PDP-11, VAX, PDP-10, ... CPU. Unfortunately I don't have the experience nor the resources to build a board like this. "Hey, I can telnet / slogin to the disk controler of my PDP-11!" That would be expensive, but you can do _anything_ with it. So you can use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in higher production volume and lower cost. I know that a list member was designing a board like this. I don't know how far he got. But my offer is still valid: Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. > The Unibus transceivers is indeed an issue- we dont have heaps of > those laying around. On the other hand, their exact function and > specs are known (see the Peripherals handbook, 1972-ish or so), > and we should be able to re-implement them in discrete logic, > or bite the bullet and do a pin-compatible replacement, and > have 1,000 made. A re-implementation in discrete logic was my thought too. Depending how it fits it may be possible to build a UniBus / QBus combi-board that could be used in both busses depending on jumper settings. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 13 08:11:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: OOPS! was: Re: Forward from the Computer Collector's List Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040513091105.008c8950@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just found out that the original message from Brian came from his site at and not from this list. So if my message appeared out of the blue then that's why. I expect that many of you are also on Brian's mail list. If you're not, you should consider joining (use the link above). Joe FYI I went over and visited Ed today and bought the o'scope. He has a nice old IBM PC XT if anyone is interested in one. He's the original owner and thinks that he still has the original reciepts, etc for it. He bought it WITHOUT a hard drive! It still has the two original HH floppy drives with the * on them. He's installed a hard card and a 3 1/2" floppy drive. It still has the original floppy drive controller in it. I think he has all or most of the other original cards for it. He has several different video cards for it including a Paradise CGA card that can drive a monochrome monitor. He has a Amber Amdek monitor for it and I think he also has a VGA monitor and video card for it. The machine is in very good condition. If anyone wants a good original IBM computer they should give him a call. Joe At 07:09 PM 5/10/04 -0400, Brain wrote: > >This came in today for anyone in the southeast US. Doesn't sound that >collectible but who knows. > >Brian > >>From: "Ed Elkes" >>To: >>Subject: Lost enthusiasm >>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:16:04 -0400 >> >> >>I never thought I'd say this, but I've lost my enthusiasm for keeping the >>old machines running. Original IBM PC-XT, Compaq 386-33, ALR Pentium-133. >>Just not in the mood, anymore, I guess. >> >>I'm looking for anyone who is looking for, not only these PC's, but scads >>of >>boards, SCSI controllers and drives, server cases, Netware manuals, RAM, >>etc. I've held on to enough parts to rebuild these machines several times, >>and now I would like to find someone who needs or can use them for their >>own >>hobby machines. These machines all ran on my Netware network, which also >>has gone away. >> >>I've placed a list of what I've sorted out, so far, on my Web page, so you >>can see what there is and see if you, or anyone you know, might be >>interested. The list will be updated as items have sold and more items >>have >>been added. I'm not through uncovering stuff. Everything is IBM PC-based, >>8 and 16 bit. I never followed Apple or the earlier kit brands, although I >>did have a few. >> >>The Web page is www.geocities.com/ed_9213. More detailed info for the >>above >>computers is listed there, as well as the miscellaneous items. Like, where >>would you still find an 8-bit multi I/O card with 2FD 1S 1P 1G & clock, or >>a >>B/W VGA monitor? How about PC DOS 2.1, or a hard drive controller that will >>handle 8 IDE drives at once? Just a sample. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Ed Elkes >>Lake Mary, Florida (Orlando Area) >>ed9213@cfl.rr.com >> From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 08:38:05 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <16547.31293.577531.116567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Kunz writes: Jochen> On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:30:49 +0100 Frank Arnold Jochen> wrote: >> A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it >> be a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? >> That would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with >> nothing else attached to it. Jochen> Sure. But who will fab the big, odd-shaped UniBus boards? Do Jochen> you have enough UniBus transceiver chips in stock? Transceiver chips might be an issue. The board doesn't have to be all that big -- quad size is enough. >> If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it >> be to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a >> (better four) CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would >> become a RK07+ media... Jochen> Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting Jochen> idea. - If you can get complete shematics and there are no Jochen> funky things like an AMD bit slice CPU in it. All the disk controllers before the MSCP family are hardwired logic (except maybe the RL01, I'm not sure about that one -- and ignoring screwball stuff like the Pro disk controllers). So none of them should be all that hard. If you want to emulate an old disk controller, the RH11 family might be better, since those are larger disks, so you can put larger flash cards to good use. >> If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver >> issues, Jochen> There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That Jochen> is an other issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you Jochen> have to make the emulation good enough for all operating Jochen> systems. It may work for a RK611, but what about a UDA50 with Jochen> its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler that has a T11 with some Jochen> non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick this in a (cheap, Jochen> small) FPGA. The UDA doesn't have a T11 in it. What it has is about 200 words of microcode that implement a small instruction set that looks a lot like a stripped-down simplified PDP11 instruction set. But it isn't a PDP11 instruction set and it isn't done with a PDP11. The 2901/2910 is a pretty simple beast; it would be easy enough to put that in an FPGA, I'd think. The real issue is that you'd have a hard time finding the UDA firmware. Then again, if you wanted to emulate an MSCP controller, you don't need to emulate the structure of the controller, you only need to emulate the command interface. That is certainly doable. (It's been done before -- consider the various PDP11 emulators.) paul From tandem at comcast.net Wed May 12 18:37:08 2004 From: tandem at comcast.net (tandem) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale Message-ID: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> I'm in the process of putting together a list of what I've got for sale. I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. I'll get back with the list soon. tm ----- Original Message ----- From: tandem To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:13 PM Subject: PDP8s for sale I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. Is there a good place to list them? tm From allain at panix.com Thu May 13 09:06:16 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: Message-ID: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > http://marketplace.vintage.org ^^^^^^^^^^^ BTW I like the VCM.* Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on the list checks it out at least once a month. John A. * a freeze-dried sentence From pcw at mesanet.com Thu May 13 09:07:10 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:30:49 +0100 > Frank Arnold wrote: > > > A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it be > > a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? That > > would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with nothing else > > attached to it. > Sure. But who will fab the big, odd-shaped UniBus boards? Do you have > enough UniBus transceiver chips in stock? You could do a very short (2 inches?) card to save PCB costs > > > If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it be > > to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a (better four) > > CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would become a RK07+ > > media... > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > slice CPU in it. > > > If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver > > issues, > There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That is an other > issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you have to make the > emulation good enough for all operating systems. It may work for a > RK611, but what about a UDA50 with its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler > that has a T11 with some non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick > this in a (cheap, small) FPGA. Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about 27K bytes of block RAM that can be used as RAM or ROM, and you could fit at least a couple of 100 MHz 16 bit CPUs inside plus whatever other hardware was required. It would require level shifters for the bus however. > > > A project like this would be a perfect entry for the VCFE of next > > year, isn't it? (Hurry up, only 50 weeks left! :-)) ) > Yes, that is where the idea for this project was born. :-) > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From pcw at mesanet.com Thu May 13 09:25:20 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513105822.GA8726@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:31:25AM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > > > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > > > slice CPU in it. > > Nope, just logic. > The RK611, but not a UDA50 or anything else that is "smart". > > When I go through the work of designing a UniBus board, I would put > enough on it to run NetBSD on the controller. The UniBus attachment > should be implemented in a FPGA to have maximum flexibility in the > hardware. Software on top of this should be a NetBSD kernel driver, > perhaps with a userland daemon to support the kernel driver and control > it. It would be possible to emulate any UniBus device, including a > PDP-11, VAX, PDP-10, ... CPU. Unfortunately I don't have the experience > nor the resources to build a board like this. > > "Hey, I can telnet / slogin to the disk controler of my PDP-11!" > > That would be expensive, but you can do _anything_ with it. So you can > use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in higher > production volume and lower cost. I know that a list member was > designing a board like this. I don't know how far he got. But my offer > is still valid: Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. Thats a dangerous offer... I may not be that expensive nowadays. A MIPS or ARM SOC with PCI for I/O expansion and Built in Ethernet, SDRAM support and simple I/O bus are available for between $15 and $30. The bus interface FPGA is really simple and probably in the $10-15 region. PCI is nice as it makes it easy to add MiniPCI slot for wireless, USB, IDE, SCSI etc. CPUs without PCI are even cheaper. > > > The Unibus transceivers is indeed an issue- we dont have heaps of > > those laying around. On the other hand, their exact function and > > specs are known (see the Peripherals handbook, 1972-ish or so), > > and we should be able to re-implement them in discrete logic, > > or bite the bullet and do a pin-compatible replacement, and > > have 1,000 made. > A re-implementation in discrete logic was my thought too. Depending how > it fits it may be possible to build a UniBus / QBus combi-board that > could be used in both busses depending on jumper settings. > -- Discrete mosfets with RC at the gates (say sot23 if surface mount) would give you all the drive you needed without excessive edge rates. The input side could be done with Schmitt trigger CMOS parts or even quad comparators if you wanted to get fancy about input threshold... > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 09:30:40 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: FS: DEC 3000/400 & Sun Ultra 1 170E Message-ID: <40A38690.4050507@sbcglobal.net> Located in New Haven, CT area - 06517. Pick up only. I don't want to break up either system. Make me an offer by 5/21/2004 DEC 3000/400 2 mice keyboard 17" color monitor (or is it 19?) CD-ROM 2 GB HDD 64 MB RAM Sun Ultra 1 1 optical mouse w/special pad 1 ball mouse 2 keyboards 17" color monitor external CD-ROM 2 1 GB HDDs maybe a 4 GB also... floppy disk 128 MB RAM Creator 3D video card -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 13 09:46:14 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002f01c438f9$1c7bbce0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > BTW I like the VCM.* > Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show > and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a > surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on > the list checks it out at least once a month. > > John A. > * a freeze-dried sentence > All of the material doesn't have to be on the same site to be searchable, I don't think. Can't you setup a Google app to search only what site/sites you want and then continually edit that list? I don't mean the Google main search site, I mean the one you can install on your own site. That way you'd have this massive database similar to the web itself but using only sites that pertain to vintage computing. Dead links would be reported somehow or a spider could check the base sites on a regular basis. bm From allain at panix.com Thu May 13 09:53:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I > know, but it's an attempt anyway. > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm I like the simplicity of this. Kind of like the bulletin board where everybody posts their business card. The links to individual sites are there... so this could be an index to a webring, and each individual could decide how much information to put there, and how to do it. That would also create a compete and evolve system that may be a good motivational tool. - - - On the subject of databases. I think they're too "Robot friendly" and that may be more an opportunity for the unfriendly than the friendly. Look how neat eMail and NewsGroups were for years, and then people got the spark of an idea for spam. Right now I get 300 spams a day, and that costs a lot of time. I think if you list out your whole collection to a database that creates an opportunity for some kind of unfriendly approaches, I don't think I'll know what exactly they'll be until they're a problem. BTW I have a personal collection database on my computer and even though I know SQL and Excel I kept it flatfile, since the needs differ between systems and parts, between manuals and boards, etc. Different things fit different spots. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 09:56:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at > first) an apple IIC+ > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial > Gems" > "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... Blow-Up Dolls Oatmeal Prophylactics Manure Sex Toys Power Cords Lint Shredded Paper Discarded Tinfoil Dust Paper Clips Slinkies Cat 5 Cables Bras and Panties Bubble Wrap Printer Toner PostIt Notes Jello Whip Cream Leather Whips Mushrooms Lahsa Apsos Holy Hand Grenades Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu May 13 10:06:08 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: OT: RE: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405131101468.SM02384@bobdev> > Blow-Up Dolls > Oatmeal > Prophylactics > Manure > Sex Toys > Power Cords > Lint > Shredded Paper > Discarded Tinfoil > Dust > Paper Clips > Slinkies > Cat 5 Cables > Bras and Panties > Bubble Wrap > Printer Toner > PostIt Notes > Jello > Whip Cream > Leather Whips > Mushrooms > Lahsa Apsos > Holy Hand Grenades > Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) My guess is for Mushrooms :) From allain at panix.com Thu May 13 10:10:11 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1><000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody have one spare or a link to seller? TIA / IAO / PAM John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu May 13 10:14:39 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad In-Reply-To: <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513101337.0357a150@mail.ubanproductions.com> For the Sun style mice, there are a number of different sized grids, which must be matched with the particular mouse. What type of mouse do you have? --tom At 11:10 AM 5/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Anybody have one spare or a link to seller? > >TIA / IAO / PAM >John A. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu May 13 10:20:54 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 13, 04 07:56:07 am Message-ID: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at > > first) an apple IIC+ > > > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > > > stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial > > Gems" > > "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) > > > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) Hamster Pelts Synthol Canned Sunshine Unobtanium ;) Hydrogen Hydroxide Round Tuits Apple I's Nano Planets Spam Cheers, Bryan From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 13 10:35:31 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... Message-ID: >Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) The sex toys? -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 13 10:59:51 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... References: Message-ID: <40A39B77.7000104@jetnet.ab.ca> Ron Hudson wrote: > > Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at > first) an apple IIC+ > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial Gems" > "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > Mine stops at Orion Slave Girls. Need you name all the cargo, since you need to name only the cargo classes? Industrial gems could have several types. 1) common gems. 2) Rare gems 3) Exotic gems 4) black market 5) Special. Ben. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu May 13 11:15:04 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) Message-ID: There are many areas of "collectors" that can't give up any parts of their collections. My grandfather had an old corn crib that was full of partial parts and containers of stuff from the orchard and farm. There were tractor parts, mower parts, sprayer parts, wagon parts, and picking bags. You could not just drive to the store for a part when something failed. After he died I looked through it, saved some unique items and it was an education of how farming used to be versus what it is today. I don't think he thought he was a collector just a farmer. Currently I have neighbors who are sailors and their back lots are a collection of boat parts. I have seen more hasty repairs from the collections. The local community would like to clean up "junk" however one person's junk is another's treasure. It's probably related to availability, if you have a broken boat and need a part then the closest part is the best. Then there are the car people! I don't know enough to comment. You have never seen stuff until you meet some "horse people", they have more tack, ribbons and stuff than most. I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't eat, and need veterinarians. This weekend is a general community cleanup and I'm keeping my eyes open for any neat computer stuff. Last year I got an HP 7550 pen plotter from the dumpster. Of course I will have to negotiate with my wife. Mike From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 11:15:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, chris wrote: > >Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) > > The sex toys? I don't know about you, but where I'm at, you never know when an orgy will break out in your office. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 13 11:21:56 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... Message-ID: >> >Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) >> >> The sex toys? > >I don't know about you, but where I'm at, you never know when an orgy will >break out in your office. Oh for the love of god. You just put that image in my head... and with the people I work with, I am now heating my soldering iron so I can jam it into my ear and forever remove that thought! Thanks for ruining my lunch break! -chris From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:19:11 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513181911.173d13fc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:10 -0700 (PDT) "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about 27K bytes of block > RAM that can be used as RAM or ROM, and you could fit at least a > couple of 100 MHz 16 bit CPUs inside plus whatever other hardware was > required. Interresting. But can I get a PowerPC CPU + FPU + SDRAM interface in that? An other interresting Question: Are there free developement tools for the FPGAs available? I have no PeeCee and I refuse to tuch M$ Bloat+Bugware. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:12:47 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16547.31293.577531.116567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <16547.31293.577531.116567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040513181247.2387b755.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:38:05 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > The board doesn't have to be all > that big -- quad size is enough. This is big. > All the disk controllers before the MSCP family are hardwired logic > (except maybe the RL01, I'm not sure about that one -- and ignoring > screwball stuff like the Pro disk controllers). So none of them > should be all that hard. If you count a bit slice CPU as hardwired logic. ;-) > If you want to emulate an old disk controller, the RH11 family might > be better, since those are larger disks, so you can put larger flash > cards to good use. As already said: If UniBus then general solution that is able to emulate whatever you want. > The UDA doesn't have a T11 in it. I know. But the RQDX3 has one. If we are doing UniBus we should also take care of the QBus. They are similar enough to be supported bouth. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:07:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513105822.GA8726@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513180736.680cff2f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. > Thats a dangerous offer... I have experience in porting NetBSD to new hardware platforms. If it is an already supported CPU the work is not that hard. > I may not be that expensive nowadays. A MIPS or ARM SOC with PCI for > I/O expansion [...] I would prefer some PowerPC based stuff. I don't know about the embedded MIPS chips, but I know how fast a StrongARM or Xscale is and that a (quite old) 300 MHz PPC604e is much faster. PowerPC is very well supported in NetBSD and GCC[1]. It is continuously improved thanks to the macppc users. Maybe it is posible to use an already existing evaluation board and interface it to the UniBus... > CPUs without PCI are even cheaper. I would not use non-PCI devices. If all I/O beside the UniBus hangs of PCI, all you need is a machine dependent PCI backend in NetBSD to give you acces to all PCI devices already supported by NetBSD. That way you need only to implement a single driver for the PCI bus, not one for every device on your board. > Discrete mosfets with RC at the gates (say sot23 if surface mount) > would give you all the drive you needed without excessive edge rates. > The input side could be done with Schmitt trigger CMOS parts or even > quad comparators if you wanted to get fancy about input threshold... Well, when you say. Discrete analog stuff is not my territory. ;-) [1] GCC likes to generate sub-optimal code for "non mainstream RISC" CPUs and you have to be prepared for compiler bugs on "non mainstream CPUs". -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brad at heeltoe.com Thu May 13 11:35:25 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 07:25:20 PDT." Message-ID: <200405131635.i4DGZPW09917@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: ... >> use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in higher >> production volume and lower cost. I know that a list member was >> designing a board like this. I don't know how far he got. But my offer I'm designing a simple board with a PIC cpu and a CPLD which should be able to emulate virtually any disk controller (given software). I have found about 100 of the unibus drivers on the secondary market. The idea is that the cpld holds a register set which the PIC and unibus can read/write and the PIC can be a bus master to read/write unibus memory. A serial port will allow the firmware in the pic to be updated to allow one to change controllers. An IDE interface for a true ide disk or CF card is on other side. My goal is to start with something simple like an RL02 interface. I may go on to do something like the UDA50. This is mostly because I have an RL02 and UDA50 controller. I'm still on paper, so I may substitue one of the cool philips ARM cpu's which have built in flash and ram, mostly because I could then write the emulation code in C. It depends on the speeds I need. I have not done the unibus hdl code yet, and that will drive the timing of the cpu. Initially I want the device to be able to run in "stupid ide mode" by programming the cpld as a pass through and exposing the ide registers directly on the unibus. This way the device can be useful right away and gradually get more sophisticated as more software is written. If I do it right the cpu should be able to reprogram the cpld so everything can be field programmed. the real problem is that my day gig keeps getting in the way of my fun :-) I hope to have a prototype this summer - I'll certainly publish everything and take orders if anyone wants one :-) -brad From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:46:58 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513184658.0ecbb88e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:10 -0700 (PDT) "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about Other idea: By a generic PCI I/O card with FPGA that you can stick into any arbitrary PCI based machine, build QBus and UniBus glue for it and that's it. I'll write a NetBSD driver for it. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pcw at mesanet.com Thu May 13 11:49:58 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513180736.680cff2f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) > "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > > > Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. > > Thats a dangerous offer... > I have experience in porting NetBSD to new hardware platforms. If it is > an already supported CPU the work is not that hard. > > > I may not be that expensive nowadays. A MIPS or ARM SOC with PCI for > > I/O expansion [...] > I would prefer some PowerPC based stuff. I don't know about the embedded > MIPS chips, but I know how fast a StrongARM or Xscale is and that a > (quite old) 300 MHz PPC604e is much faster. PowerPC is very well > supported in NetBSD and GCC[1]. It is continuously improved thanks to > the macppc users. Then the Motorola 5200 might be about right... maybe overkill (400 or so MHz) but its still pretty cheap > > Maybe it is posible to use an already existing evaluation board and > interface it to the UniBus... > > > CPUs without PCI are even cheaper. > I would not use non-PCI devices. If all I/O beside the UniBus hangs of > PCI, all you need is a machine dependent PCI backend in NetBSD to give > you acces to all PCI devices already supported by NetBSD. That way you > need only to implement a single driver for the PCI bus, not one for > every device on your board. Right, > > > Discrete mosfets with RC at the gates (say sot23 if surface mount) > > would give you all the drive you needed without excessive edge rates. > > The input side could be done with Schmitt trigger CMOS parts or even > > quad comparators if you wanted to get fancy about input threshold... > Well, when you say. Discrete analog stuff is not my territory. ;-) > > [1] GCC likes to generate sub-optimal code for "non mainstream RISC" > CPUs and you have to be prepared for compiler bugs on "non mainstream > CPUs". > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 11:57:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405131635.i4DGZPW09917@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: ... >>> use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in >>> higher production volume and lower cost. I know that a list >>> member was designing a board like this. I don't know how far he >>> got. But my offer Brad> I'm designing a simple board with a PIC cpu and a CPLD which Brad> should be able to emulate virtually any disk controller (given Brad> software). Brad> The idea is that the cpld holds a register set which the PIC Brad> and unibus can read/write and the PIC can be a bus master to Brad> read/write unibus memory. That should do the job just fine for MSCP (except that this may be too large a job for a PIC). For older disk controllers, this approach is likely to be hard because touching CSRs causes actions to take place, and often actions are tied to bits, not just to the whole CSR. You may be able to emulate that in software, but it's likely to be tricky because your CPLD will have to be more than just a register file. I'd say that anything that was originally done as a microprocessor plus register file would be no problem. That means (T)MSCP devices, the DMC/DMR/DMP/DMV11 series comm controllers, the KMC11, and the Pro hard drive controller. But if it started out as hard logic, a microprocessor emulation wouldn't be as easy. That's why the programming interface style changed quite drastically when microprocessor control became interesting. paul From mtapley at swri.edu Thu May 13 12:33:51 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Apple mouse In-Reply-To: <200405122343.i4CNhThc073846@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405122343.i4CNhThc073846@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: My 512K Mac has the squarer connector (although the Mac itself has been upgraded to a Plus). But I don't think it has the little Mouse icon on the connector - I'll have to check that. I could also check mouse serial number, etc. if it will help. Not sure I still have serial number for the computer, as that may have gone with the original back part of the housing. At 18:43 -0500 5/12/04, Marvin Johnston wrote: >Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:56:46 -0700 >From: Marvin Johnston >Subject: Re: Apple mouse > > >Michael Fincham wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the >> > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? >> > >> >> I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. > >The original Mac 128 had the 9 pin connector but it had a square shape >as opposed to the later connectors. You can see the difference in this >photo: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ap-mouse.jpg. The connector at the >right is the original Mac 128K and the one on the left is a later >version. My question is how much later :). > -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 12:33:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513101337.0357a150@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513101337.0357a150@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405131735.NAA01598@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Anybody have one [optical mouse pad] spare or a link to seller? > For the Sun style mice, there are a number of different sized grids, > which must be matched with the particular mouse. That doesn't match my experience; what I find is that the grid on the pad must be no finer than the grid the mouse is designed for - but may be coarser without harm. > What type of mouse do you have? Yes, that was my first question too: "an optical pad for what kind of mouse?". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Thu May 13 12:54:38 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002e01c43913$5c26b920$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > On the subject of databases. I think they're too "Robot > friendly" and that may be more an opportunity for the > unfriendly than the friendly. Look how neat eMail and > NewsGroups were for years, and then people got the spark of > an idea for spam. Right now I get 300 spams a day, and that > costs a lot of time. I think if you list out your whole > collection to a database that > creates an opportunity for some kind of unfriendly > approaches, I don't think I'll know what exactly they'll be > until they're a problem. John, this is exactly why we held back on the collections directory in VCM, why email addresses are not exposed anywhere on the interface, and why many "bulk" transactions like looking at the entire list of items or the wanted list requires you to log in as a registered user first. I would have to say, we are "robot wary." :-) Ashley said: > Is there a way to see a list of all the registered > members and their interests? What I'd like to do > is produce a list of all registered users who are > interested in PDP-11's, for example. It would be easy to provide this since the data is all there, the real question is, what will you do with that info? The use you have in mind may be strictly honorable, but not everyone plays by the same rule book and moral standards. Sadly, the honor system doesn't work these days. Even right now on VCM, we have member-to-member "spam" in the form of low-ball offers on listed items and shall we say "un-sportsman-like" commentary in reply to refusals. I imagine that would increase dramatically if one could see everything someone had, not just what they had for sale. We don't want to be in the role of "spam cop", handling complaints, reviewing emails and passing judgement, and handing out sentences to members. That's a big concern for us. It also wouldn't take a lot of that activity to irritate people, and then they'd mark their collections private, and after enough of that, the feature loses its value anyway. I don't want to say we're not open to the idea. We're are going to try it. To paraphrase John's comment, we wont' really know if this is a problem, or what the real problem is if any at all, until we get there. And thanks to all of you who are supporting this project. Traffic is way up and some really interesting things are posted, and it's a great reward for us to see people buying and selling every day. Patrick From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 12:43:01 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... Depending on things such as time-in-transit and environment provided by the ships, some of these may not work, but here are some ideas. Of course, you can also invent things; much sf includes invented foods, animals, devices, etc, that you can steal names from. Various foods (wheat, millet, barley, apples, onions, ...) Various metals (gold, tin, lead, iron, copper, ...) Other materials (wood, glass, granite, slate, paper, ...) Jewelry (bracelets, necklaces, rings, ...) Books (textbooks, sf, pr0n, mystery, biography, ...) Power tools (drill press, lathe, welder, grinder, riveter, (handheld) power drill, (handheld) power saw, ...) Hand tools (chisels, hammers, screwdrivers, pliers, boltcutters, taps, dies, wrenches, saws, files, ...) Paint (subclassify by type (eg, latex, enamel) and colour) Films (any movie listing will give you lots of subcategories here) House furnishings (carpets, Venetian blinds, chairs, tables, wallpaper, linoleum, table lamps, ...) Office furnishings (chairs, filing cabinets, desks, ...) Vehicles (cars, bicycles, roller skates, rocket sleds, hovercraft, ...) Animals (in particular, eels for the hovercraft :) Animal products (pelts/teeth/horns/etc of various animals, treated products like things made of leather or ivory) Liquids (water, heavy water, various oils - any chemistry reference will have lots of liquids) Other chemicals (I liked the hydrogen hydroxide suggestion someone made; again, any chemistry reference has lots of names) Electronics (consumer, industrial, computer - can subclassify in more detail if you want) Mail (perhaps subclassify by priority?) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From musicman38 at comcast.net Thu May 13 13:05:51 2004 From: musicman38 at comcast.net (Musicman38) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: [OT] ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase References: Message-ID: <002a01c43914$ed55f860$1e00a8c0@philxp> Thanks Fred.. I Apperciate your answer, even though this is off topic as Pat pointed out. Just thought there were some pretty knowledgeble people here that could give some input on my find, and know way more than I about Thin Clients. Although I guess these do not classify as "Classic or Unique", I'm still having fun with them (Grin) I did find on eBay some more TC-5000 Thin Clients with RDP 5.1 installed. At $40 each a little pricey just to play and learn on, but I'm in to deep now to quit.. Telnet to Unix and Linux is a big plus also... Thanks again.. ~Phil <:))))><< ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:38 AM Subject: Re: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Musicman38 wrote: > > > I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client Terminals. > > 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. > > Running Windows CE.. > Nice! I use a few of those (not the same brand, but thin clients) > and its nice and quiet :) > > > Question: > > (1) Is it even worth my buying the Citrix Metaframe software to run on my > > Windows Server ? > No. > > > (2) Would it be better to upgrade the Internal ROM to the newer version > > ($50) that has ICA, Plus RDP 5.1 ? > Yes. That should also get you Telnet, so you can connect to > UNIX and VMS hosts in text mode. > > Cheers, > > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 13:19:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: [OT] ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase In-Reply-To: <002a01c43914$ed55f860$1e00a8c0@philxp> Message-ID: > I Apperciate your answer, even though this is off topic as Pat pointed out. > Just thought there were some pretty knowledgeble people here that could give > some input on my find, > and know way more than I about Thin Clients. > Although I guess these do not classify as "Classic or Unique", I'm still > having fun with them (Grin) Well, I use "offtopic" Xterms to talk to "ontopic" systems, so, as a whole, they're ontopic, I figure ;-) > I did find on eBay some more TC-5000 Thin Clients with RDP 5.1 installed. > At $40 each a little pricey just to play and learn on, but I'm in to deep > now to quit.. Hmm, $40 is a good price for em... I paid more like $80-100 for mine. --f From brad at heeltoe.com Thu May 13 13:27:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 12:57:52 EDT." <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405131827.i4DIRNQ11338@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: > >That should do the job just fine for MSCP (except that this may be too >large a job for a PIC). For older disk controllers, this approach is >likely to be hard because touching CSRs causes actions to take place, >and often actions are tied to bits, not just to the whole CSR. You >may be able to emulate that in software, but it's likely to be tricky >because your CPLD will have to be more than just a register file. well, yes, cpld need to notice when a register is written from the unibus and potentially interrupt the cpu. there are certainly some interlocking issues to keep the two cpu's in sync. no reason why the cpld can't do this on bit by bit basis... >I'd say that anything that was originally done as a microprocessor >plus register file would be no problem. That means (T)MSCP devices, >the DMC/DMR/DMP/DMV11 series comm controllers, the KMC11, and the Pro >hard drive controller. But if it started out as hard logic, a >microprocessor emulation wouldn't be as easy. That's why the >programming interface style changed quite drastically when >microprocessor control became interesting. roger. -brad From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 13:22:51 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <8B7794F1-A50A-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 13, 2004, at 10:43 AM, der Mouse wrote: >> I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > >> My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > > Depending on things such as time-in-transit and environment provided by > the ships, some of these may not work, but here are some ideas. Of > course, you can also invent things; much sf includes invented foods, > animals, devices, etc, that you can steal names from. > > Various foods (wheat, millet, barley, apples, onions, ...) Hmm perhaps I should add a "perisbable" value (weeks until spoiled) > Mail (perhaps subclassify by priority?) > Mail... interesting... My game also has passengers, if you have one or more passenger modules I would probably use the larger catagory.. "foodstuffs" for example Planets ban random items too, and you stand a small chance of being "inspected" - if so your banned items will be confiscated, you may be allowed to pay a "fine" instead though Or pehaps you may be offered "Inspection Insurance" on landing? From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 13:38:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > > Depending on things such as time-in-transit and environment provided by > the ships, some of these may not work, but here are some ideas. Of > course, you can also invent things; much sf includes invented foods, > animals, devices, etc, that you can steal names from. How about giving the cargo a vintage computer theme? Microprocessors RAM EPROMs Diskettes 9-track tapes Bubble Memory Modules Disc packs Punch cards Paper tape rolls Front panel switches etc. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 13:40:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <8B7794F1-A50A-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Planets ban random items too, and you stand a small chance of being > "inspected" - if so your banned items will be confiscated, you may > be allowed to pay a "fine" instead though In the games I've played you lose your cargo AND get fined. > Or pehaps you may be offered "Inspection Insurance" on landing? You mean a bribe? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 13:46:14 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200405131827.i4DIRNQ11338@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16547.49782.92433.486926@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Paul Koning wrote: >> That should do the job just fine for MSCP (except that this may be >> too large a job for a PIC). For older disk controllers, this >> approach is likely to be hard because touching CSRs causes actions >> to take place, and often actions are tied to bits, not just to the >> whole CSR. You may be able to emulate that in software, but it's >> likely to be tricky because your CPLD will have to be more than >> just a register file. Brad> well, yes, cpld need to notice when a register is written from Brad> the unibus and potentially interrupt the cpu. Brad> there are certainly some interlocking issues to keep the two Brad> cpu's in sync. Brad> no reason why the cpld can't do this on bit by bit basis... It's worse than that in some cases. For example, if you have mixed read/write and read-only bits, if you write the CSR and then read it, you want to read the correct read-only status values. If you try to fake this by having a microprocessor restore those bits after being interrupted by the CPLD, the read may get there first. Similarly, the values you see in one register may change depending on what's in another register. An example is the drive status, which reflects the currently selected drive (in a number of disk controllers). Again, a software emulation may not get there in time. You might try to cheat by holding off SSYN on the Unibus read until any pending CSR fixups are done, but then the microcontroller has a rather tight time limit (20 microseconds or so). paul From torquil at chemist.com Thu May 13 14:09:32 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: Message-ID: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> > You have never seen stuff until you meet some "horse people", they have > more tack, ribbons and stuff than most. They have tack, we have boxes and boxes of random cards/drives. They have ribbons, we have ribbon cables. I've found that in every 'hobby', no matter how inexpensive it seems, there is always a way to make it really expensive. (Like my astronomy hobby, I figured I'd just look at random stars for free.... but I want to look at dimmer stars, so I need more size and aperture, then I don't feel like pushing it around so I have to build some kind of computer control for it. If a hobby is 'cheap', you are not into it enough. :) > I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't > eat, and need veterinarians. Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, whereas horses require none (... YET ;)) -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 14:23:52 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > > I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't > > eat, and need veterinarians. > > Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, whereas > horses require none (... YET ;)) And dont forget all the beer and snacks you need to get your friends in order for them to come over and (help you) fix the damn things..! --f From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 13:16:50 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200405131635.i4DGZPW09917@mwave.heeltoe.com> <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040513201650.6c3f2a1f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 12:57:52 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > Brad> The idea is that the cpld holds a register set which the PIC > Brad> and unibus can read/write [...] > For older disk controllers, this approach is likely to be hard because > touching CSRs causes actions to take place, Programm and wire the CPLD so that it generates an interrupt to the PIC when the register file is touched. Issue a vector along with the interrupt that tels the PIC which CSR was touched. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 12:43:55 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad In-Reply-To: <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040513194355.614e1a8a.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 11:10:11 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > Anybody have one spare or a link to seller? Draw a grid, print it with a 600 dpi laser printer on transparent foil, mount it on a alu tin sheet. (Or make a sandwich transparent foil, alu foil, printed transparent foil) This worked well for my type 4 und 5 Sun optical rodents. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 13 14:41:52 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) Message-ID: >And dont forget all the beer and snacks you need to get your friends >in order for them to come over and (help you) fix the damn things..! I guess the amount of beer and snacks depends on which "things" they are helping you fix. I'd think it will take more beer to get them to help you fix the horse. :-) -chris From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Thu May 13 14:47:20 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard Message-ID: <40A3D0C8.2010009@wavecable.com> I'm looking for a manual and other info on this old 386 motherboard that I am trying to build into a working DOS 6.22/WfW 3.11 system for playing old games and to play around with DOS TCP/IP networking. The board, according to the BIOS string, is from Wintac-Edom (The BIOS string is: E0X3-1379-083090-K0 Beyond that, I can't seem to find any other info on this, as there are no other identifying markings that I can find. Here's a pic of the board... http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GKW-Edom-MB-0.JPG Anyway, I currently have it set up with a VGA card, a 16-bit MIO card, Adaptec AHA 1542CF SCSI adapter, Databook PCMCIA card reader, PnP Soundblaster, 3Com EtherLink III 3c509 NIC, SCSI CD-ROM drive, 210MB Hard drive as the master drive, 1.5GB hard drive set as slave (will put EZ-BIOS on it shortly to make it useable on this old board), 386/DX-25 (or 33, I don't remember at the moment which) CPU, and 8MB of RAM in the form of 8 1MB 30 Pin SIMMs). So, when I boot up, she goes through the memory test, then the SCSI card does its self-test. After that, I get an error about the hard drive (this is because I haven't set either drive up yet), and am given the option to hit F1 to go to setup. Well, when I go into BIOS setup, everything freezes on me, no response at all from the keyboard, and all I can do is hit reset or power down. Odd thing is, though; I can boot up with a DOS floppy and access the C drive just fine, though the D drive is not yet visible of course. What would be causing this freezeup when I go to BIOS setup? And, where can I find a manual for this board? Thanks From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 13 14:52:14 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1084477933.30017.93.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:06, John Allain wrote: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > BTW I like the VCM.* > Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show > and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a > surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on > the list checks it out at least once a month. Are there any stats for the location of buyers, casual browers (that'd have to be based on IP) and sellers? Looking at that front page it looks purely an American affair at the moment, with a couple of strays. I'd use it for listing my collection and interests. I couldn't really use it for buying or selling though, as shipping to/from the UK just makes it uneconomical on anything but the smallest items unless they're located in this country. Does anyone else on this side of the pond have any idea where all the classic collectors are lurking? Generally, they don't seem to be on this list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) audience... cheers Jules From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 13 14:53:28 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: Message-ID: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> What kind of beer and snacks do you guys like? I'm way over here in South Carolina, but I may need help with the following items from some recent equipment acquisitions: 1) Dead VT52 terminal 2) Semi-dead LA-120 DecWriter 3) RL01 drive that powers up, spins, and then lights the fault light 4) Installing / testing / aligning two RK05 drives Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > > > > I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't > > > eat, and need veterinarians. > > > > Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, whereas > > horses require none (... YET ;)) > > And dont forget all the beer and snacks you need to get your friends > in order for them to come over and (help you) fix the damn things..! > > --f > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 13 15:05:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > What kind of beer and snacks do you guys like? I'm way over here > in South Carolina, but I may need help with the following items > from some recent equipment acquisitions: > > 3) RL01 drive that powers up, spins, and then lights the fault light ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think that you need to be cabled uo to an alive-and-functioning RLV11 or equiv - the RL0n drives want to see valid clock sigs back from the adapter card. Cheerz John From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 14:51:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200405132008.QAA02750@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I've found that in every 'hobby', no matter how inexpensive it seems, > there is always a way to make it really expensive. True, very true. >> I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they >> don't eat, and need veterinarians. > Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, > whereas horses require none (... YET ;)) Depends on where you live (about electricity, not horses) - in Montreal, lots of people heat with electricity, which means that during the heating season the electricity to run computers is free. (Pull a kilowatthour of power, get .86 megacalories of heat; whether it happens in a big resistor along the baseboards or in intricate patterns of silicon and aluminum matters little.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 13 15:15:47 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> This 11/03 (converted to 11/23) is in a fellow's garage and I haven't done any detailed testing. It has two RL01 drives in it. Both of them worked in the past. The first one still works. The fault light lights up on the second one. I'm picking up the computer Saturday morning and taking it to my house. I'll check the cabling, etc, and do some experimenting / testing after I get it home and get it set up again. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > What kind of beer and snacks do you guys like? I'm way over here > > in South Carolina, but I may need help with the following items > > from some recent equipment acquisitions: > > > > > 3) RL01 drive that powers up, spins, and then lights the fault light > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I think that you need to be cabled uo to an alive-and-functioning RLV11 > or equiv - the RL0n drives want to see valid clock sigs back from the > adapter card. > > > Cheerz > > John > From marvin at rain.org Thu May 13 12:43:29 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Apple mouse References: <200405122343.i4CNhThc073846@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40A3B3C1.6EA635F0@rain.org> Hmmm, it sounds like there may have been more than one version of the square 9-pin connector. I'll go check some of the other Mac 128s and see what the mouse looks like there. The only problem I run into is that I don't know if mouse is original to the computer. Thanks! Mark Tapley wrote: > > My 512K Mac has the squarer connector (although the Mac itself has > been upgraded to a Plus). But I don't think it has the little Mouse > icon on the connector - I'll have to check that. > > I could also check mouse serial number, etc. if it will help. Not > sure I still have serial number for the computer, as that may have > gone with the original back part of the housing. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 13 15:29:37 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > The first one still works. The fault light lights up on > the second one. > Check that the terminator plug has not become dislodged from the back of the second drive. And the RL series have no rocket science or voodoo in them - so they're pretty strightforward to repair. I (and many others here) have the docs and printsets for these drives, if you need such. Cheers John From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 13 15:35:16 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1><000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000801c43929$cd5fb360$a0340f14@mcothran1> Thanks for the tips. I'll try to fiddle around with it late Saturday evening, EST. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > The first one still works. The fault light lights up on > > the second one. > > > > Check that the terminator plug has not become dislodged from the back of > the second drive. > > And the RL series have no rocket science or voodoo in them - so they're > pretty strightforward to repair. I (and many others here) have the docs > and printsets for these drives, if you need such. > > > Cheers > > John > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 15:58:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <1084477933.30017.93.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Are there any stats for the location of buyers, casual browers (that'd > have to be based on IP) and sellers? Looking at that front page it looks > purely an American affair at the moment, with a couple of strays. Hi Jules. I'll have Patrick respond with regional statistics. But as for the system itself, it's definitely geared towards an international user base. We added multiple currency support a while ago and have always intended a global scope. > I'd use it for listing my collection and interests. I couldn't really > use it for buying or selling though, as shipping to/from the UK just > makes it uneconomical on anything but the smallest items unless they're > located in this country. That's my next business plan :) > Does anyone else on this side of the pond have any idea where all the > classic collectors are lurking? Generally, they don't seem to be on this > list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) audience... I'd like to know as well... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 16:14:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > > Canned Sunshine > Unobtanium ;) > Round Tuits That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on fools' errands for... Muffler Bearings Flight Line Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher Prop Wash ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -70.0 F (-56.7 C) Windchill -135.9 F (-93.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.1 kts Grid 026 Barometer 689 mb (10289. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 16:18:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale In-Reply-To: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> References: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040513211820.GD32679@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 06:37:08PM -0500, tandem wrote: > I'm in the process of putting together a list of what I've got for sale. > > I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). > > I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. What software do you have with them? (I have plenty of newer 12-bit hardware; I'm always on the lookout for 12-bit software). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 21:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.5 F (-56.4 C) Windchill -128.8 F (-89.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14 kts Grid 023 Barometer 689.1 mb (10285. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 15:24:03 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79A80112-A51B-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 13, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Planets ban random items too, and you stand a small chance of being >> "inspected" - if so your banned items will be confiscated, you may >> be allowed to pay a "fine" instead though > > In the games I've played you lose your cargo AND get fined. > >> Or pehaps you may be offered "Inspection Insurance" on landing? > > You mean a bribe? :) Bribe is such and ugly word... yup a bribe. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu May 13 16:25:43 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40A3E7D7.1080107@jcwren.com> Horn Fluid Ethan Dicks wrote: >On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > > >>After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >> >>Canned Sunshine >>Unobtanium ;) >>Round Tuits >> >> > >That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >fools' errands for... > >Muffler Bearings >Flight Line >Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >Prop Wash > >... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > >-ethan > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu May 13 16:25:39 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale References: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> <20040513211820.GD32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <014301c43930$d6a27140$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. If that's the rack I think it is, I'd be highly interested in just the rack. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu May 13 16:31:24 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale In-Reply-To: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040513213124.71526.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> I would be interested in the RX01s, as well as software and other peripherals. Regards, William Maddox --- tandem wrote: > I'm in the process of putting together a list of > what I've got for sale. > > I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). > > I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. > Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC > 50" (24u) cabinet. > > I'll get back with the list soon. > > tm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tandem > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:13 PM > Subject: PDP8s for sale > > > I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a > good home. > > Is there a good place to list them? > > tm From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu May 13 16:49:12 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > fools' errands for... > > Muffler Bearings > Flight Line > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > Prop Wash > A box of Grid Squares Vampire Tap Plasma 5 gallon bucket (to capture dropped packets behind the relay rack) Left handed Crescent Wrench Torx Hammer Ethernet Grease (can't let the cable dry out!) etc... :) g. From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 16:50:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <79A80112-A51B-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Bribe is such and ugly word... > yup a bribe. Use "baksheesh" instead then. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 16:34:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 13, 4 09:36:53 am Message-ID: > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the RK07 or > build a solid state RK07 replacement. It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer system is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as running one with a demountable hard disk. > > Wouldn't it be simpler to make a Unibus card with the flash memory and > > interface on it that pretended to be a disk controller?=20 > I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic and DEC managed with a handful of TTL. You don't _need_ an FPGA. You'd want to do DMA, which means that your device has to source the bus address, but that's not hard (a counter + buffers, basically). You also need the word count register (another counter), and some glue logic. Not that hard to build. > maybe a microcontroller a bit more powerfull then a 8 bit Atmel AVR. > This seems to be more complex then a solid state RK07 replacement. A > RK07 replacement should be doable with a hand full of serial <=3D> > parallel converter chips (data and controll words are transfered > serially between drive and controler), a 8 bit Atmel AVR and a FLASH, > IDE, whatever disk. One big difference is that the RK07 interface speed is determined by the conotroller, and your device has to keep up, keep on squirting out the bitstream at the right rate. The Unibus can be run as slow as you like (within reason). You don't have to keep up with anything. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 13 17:01:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:14 PM 5/13/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >> >> Canned Sunshine >> Unobtanium ;) >> Round Tuits > >That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >fools' errands for... > >Muffler Bearings >Flight Line >Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >Prop Wash > >... and there's more than I can't remember right now. Geez, how can you forget the left handed monkey wrench? Joe From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 13 17:08:06 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A3F1C6.80407@nktelco.net> Joe R. wrote: >At 08:07 PM 5/6/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >>I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have >>a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty >>primitive. >> >> > > I'd like to get a copy of your manual. > > > Here is a copy of the manual: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/doc/M825_SysAnalyzer.pdf The manual is a bad photocopy of the paste-ups and is marked preliminary. It does not even have page numbers. -chuck From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 13 17:10:19 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Need listmember info... Message-ID: <200405131710.19887.pat@computer-refuge.org> If anyone can provide me with Dan Cohoe's phone number I would really apprecate it. I need to give him a call about meeting up with him in Dayton, but have managed to discard my copy of his phone number. Thanks to anyone who can help, Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 17:37:18 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 10:34:22PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the RK07 or > > build a solid state RK07 replacement. > > It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer system > is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. > Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as running > one with a demountable hard disk. While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to do more than play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest Unibus disk (that wasn't on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s on an RL11. These days, I have bigger Unibus CPUs (11/44, 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still a limit for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the 11/44 or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D machines) Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm pretty much stuck with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution that emulates _some_ DEC disk controller (to avoid burning boot PROMs, writing drivers for every OS I'd want to play with, etc.). In order, a good solution for me would work with 2BSD, RT-11, RSX and RSTS... there's plenty of interfaces that fit the bill. If I weren't worried about compatibility, I'd probably just go down to the basement and hack something into a Unibus COMBOARD (68000- based communication controller w/DMA interface, 16K/32K EPROM, 128K RAM, 5025 sync UART, 6821 PIA...) I've thought about those stick-in-the-socket interfaces for slotless Amigas - both IDE and SCSI are available. The one thing that stinks is that for a disk controller, a sync UART is pretty much useless... I'd consider swapping that out for some other chip. We used Z8530s on our Qbus and VAXBI designs. > DEC managed with a handful of TTL. You don't _need_ an FPGA. You'd want > to do DMA, which means that your device has to source the bus address, > but that's not hard (a counter + buffers, basically). You also need the > word count register (another counter), and some glue logic. Not that hard > to build. It's pretty well documented in the DEC "Bus Handbook" - I have it on paper at home, and I'm pretty sure it's on bitsavers - I know I've seen it online somewhere. We just went with the DEC bus chips, not an option these days, though, unless like me, you happen to have a pile of 8641s and DC013s... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 22:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.7 F (-56.5 C) Windchill -123.3 F (-86.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.4 kts Grid 041 Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Thu May 13 17:43:59 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c4393b$c83c8680$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > I'll have Patrick respond with regional statistics. But as > for the system itself, it's definitely geared towards an > international user base. We added multiple currency support > a while ago and have always intended a global scope. We have users from 44 different countries as of this moment, and we support seven currencies (US $, Euros, British Pounds, Australian $, Canadian $, Hong Kong $, and Japanese Yen). The breakdown of users, for those of you who love ISO-3166 country codes, is: AR 2 AT 2 AU 21 BE 4 BG 2 BR 5 CA 45 CH 5 CL 1 CM 1 CN 1 CO 1 CR 1 DE 20 DK 4 ES 7 FI 1 FR 4 FX 4 GB 42 GG 1 GR 2 HU 1 IE 1 IL 1 IN 1 IT 11 JP 1 LK 1 LU 2 MO 1 MX 2 MY 1 NL 13 NO 1 NZ 2 PH 1 PL 1 PT 2 RU 1 SE 4 SK 2 US 619 YU 1 > > this list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) > > audience... All they have to do is sign up! Spread the word, man! :-) Patrick From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 13 17:47:17 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1084477933.30017.93.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <002201c4393c$5050a560$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:06, John Allain wrote: > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > BTW I like the VCM.* > > Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show > > and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a > > surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on > > the list checks it out at least once a month. > > Are there any stats for the location of buyers, casual browers (that'd > have to be based on IP) and sellers? Looking at that front page it looks > purely an American affair at the moment, with a couple of strays. > > I'd use it for listing my collection and interests. I couldn't really > use it for buying or selling though, as shipping to/from the UK just > makes it uneconomical on anything but the smallest items unless they're > located in this country. > > Does anyone else on this side of the pond have any idea where all the > classic collectors are lurking? Generally, they don't seem to be on this > list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) audience... > > cheers > > Jules > Good point Jules. I used to have quite a few contacts from Britain, Belgium and Italy plus some more probably who emailed me from my site. I guess in 1996 there weren't that many vintage computer pages so I used to get a lot more then, than I do now. Terrific interest in Atari, Amiga, Tandy too I think plus Apple. Those were the ones I knew, then there were Acorns and things I didn't know about. (Since discovered that Sears here in Canada used to sell Acorns.) The sites and the people are out there, it just seems harded to find them. What's a boot sale? :) Maybe you could start a European vintage site! bm From aek at spies.com Thu May 13 17:58:15 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405132258.i4DMwFZi015254@spies.com> > I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also > have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... I just put the S8000 CPU Board manual up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/S8000/03-3200-01_S8000cpuHw_Sep82.pdf I'll work through some others that i've scanned in the next week or two. Getting the tapes read would be a good thing. 1/4" carts? From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu May 13 17:54:30 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard In-Reply-To: <40A3D0C8.2010009@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <20040513225430.32478.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> The last thing you can do is to match it with the pictures: http://www.megasat.ch/totalhardware/ vax, 3900 --- Scarletdown wrote: > I'm looking for a manual and other info on this old > 386 motherboard that > I am trying to build into a working DOS 6.22/WfW > 3.11 system for playing > old games and to play around with DOS TCP/IP > networking. The board, > according to the BIOS string, is from Wintac-Edom > (The BIOS string is: > > E0X3-1379-083090-K0 Beyond that, I can't seem to > find any other info on > this, as there are no other identifying markings > that I can find. > > Here's a pic of the board... > > http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GKW-Edom-MB-0.JPG > > Anyway, I currently have it set up with a VGA card, > a 16-bit MIO card, > Adaptec AHA 1542CF SCSI adapter, Databook PCMCIA > card reader, PnP > Soundblaster, 3Com EtherLink III 3c509 NIC, SCSI > CD-ROM drive, 210MB > Hard drive as the master drive, 1.5GB hard drive set > as slave (will put > EZ-BIOS on it shortly to make it useable on this old > board), 386/DX-25 > (or 33, I don't remember at the moment which) CPU, > and 8MB of RAM in the > form of 8 1MB 30 Pin SIMMs). > > So, when I boot up, she goes through the memory > test, then the SCSI card > does its self-test. After that, I get an error > about the hard drive > (this is because I haven't set either drive up yet), > and am given the > option to hit F1 to go to setup. > > Well, when I go into BIOS setup, everything freezes > on me, no response > at all from the keyboard, and all I can do is hit > reset or power down. > Odd thing is, though; I can boot up with a DOS > floppy and access the C > drive just fine, though the D drive is not yet > visible of course. > > What would be causing this freezeup when I go to > BIOS setup? And, where > can I find a manual for this board? > > Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 18:02:42 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On May 13, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Joe R. wrote: > At 09:14 PM 5/13/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> >>> Canned Sunshine >>> Unobtanium ;) >>> Round Tuits >> >> That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >> fools' errands for... >> >> Muffler Bearings >> Flight Line >> Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >> Prop Wash >> >> ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > > > Geez, how can you forget the left handed monkey wrench? > > Joe > > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he used to work for Dupont (big paint people) and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... Polka dots (actually I think it would make little speckles if anything...) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 13 19:00:43 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > fools' errands for... > > Muffler Bearings > Flight Line > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > Prop Wash > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. metric crescent wrench rubber nails spotted paint (all of which actually exist) From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 18:21:37 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001901c4393b$c83c8680$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> References: <001901c4393b$c83c8680$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: <20040513232137.GA9205@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 03:43:59PM -0700, Patrick Rigney wrote: > We have users from 44 different countries as of this moment, and we support > seven currencies (US $, Euros, British Pounds, Australian $, Canadian $, > Hong Kong $, and Japanese Yen). > > The breakdown of users, for those of you who love ISO-3166 country codes, > is: > > US 619 Didn't you forget... AQ 1 :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 23:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.0 F (-56.2 C) Windchill -101.3 F (-74.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.7 kts Grid 068 Barometer 689.3 mb (10277. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 13 19:01:48 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513164831.B48785@newshell.lmi.net> > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... RK07 5150 PDP11/40 (weathered) Fry's rebate coupons spam 8272 chips Compaq portables (in batches of at least a gross) From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 19:01:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405132258.i4DMwFZi015254@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > I just put the S8000 CPU Board manual up at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/S8000/03-3200-01_S8000cpuHw_Sep82.pdf > > I'll work through some others that i've scanned in the next week > or two. > > Getting the tapes read would be a good thing. 1/4" carts? Yarp. I'll bring them the next time I plan to be in the same place as you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 13 19:06:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040513200654.00882750@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:02 PM 5/13/04 -0700, you wrote: > >On May 13, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 09:14 PM 5/13/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >>> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>>> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>>> >>>> Canned Sunshine >>>> Unobtanium ;) >>>> Round Tuits >>> >>> That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >>> fools' errands for... >>> >>> Muffler Bearings >>> Flight Line >>> Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>> Prop Wash >>> >>> ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >> >> >> Geez, how can you forget the left handed monkey wrench? >> >> Joe >> >> > >Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he >used to work for Dupont (big paint people) >and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... >Polka dots (actually I think it would make >little speckles if anything...) They do make that kind of paint, it's a standard product. We used it to repaint automobile trunks when I worked in a paint and body shop. It matched the original paint in the '60s model cars. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 13 19:08:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040513170625.G48785@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > little speckles if anything...) Spotted paint is readily available. GM, rather than matching color with outside body, painted the inside of the trunks of some of their cars with a "splatter finish" paint. For touchup body repair, spray cans are available of it. From donm at cts.com Thu May 13 19:11:38 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Bribe is such and ugly word... > > yup a bribe. > > Use "baksheesh" instead then. > Or "mordida" ? - don > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 20:15:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16548.7605.609000.688563@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 10:34:22PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >> > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the >> RK07 or > build a solid state RK07 replacement. >> >> It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer >> system is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it >> as well. Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not >> the same as running one with a demountable hard disk. Ethan> While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to Ethan> do more than play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest Ethan> Unibus disk (that wasn't on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s Ethan> on an RL11. These days, I have bigger Unibus CPUs (11/44, Ethan> 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still a limit Ethan> for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the Ethan> 11/44 or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D Ethan> machines) Ethan> Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm Ethan> pretty much stuck with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution Ethan> that emulates _some_ DEC disk controller (to avoid burning Ethan> boot PROMs, writing drivers for every OS I'd want to play Ethan> with, etc.). In order, a good solution for me would work with Ethan> 2BSD, RT-11, RSX and RSTS... there's plenty of interfaces that Ethan> fit the bill. If you can find adequate documentation for MSCP -- which should be doable -- then an MSCP controller would make a lot of sense. It's more complex in a sense, but it's command packet oriented, so the CSR piece is trivial. That one you can definitely do with just a register file to provide a register window (plus a DMA, but that can actually just be controller software reaching through a memory window over the Unibus). One clear advantage is that you can pretty much pick whatever device size you want, because drivers query the controller for the disk size and believe what they are told. With older devices, you're stuck with the particular device sizes that existed then. If not MSCP, the next obvious choice is RH11, because that gives you the widest choice of the biggest drives, and it doesn't seem significantly harder than any of the others. paul From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu May 13 20:16:49 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A41E01.6080109@mdrconsult.com> Ron Hudson wrote: > > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > little speckles if anything...) Pedant Mode=On That would depend mostly on the relative viscosities, the spray aperture, and the pressure. Pedant Mode=Off Doc From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 13 21:10:04 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: last of the Hyperion picture links Message-ID: <001701c43958$a4341b00$6402a8c0@home> A couple of days ago I posted several links to photos of my Hyperion Ex units. The units consist of 128k memory boards (1 each), hard drive controller, 2400 modem in one unit, a Logitech mouse card in one, plus the 50 pin interface that connects to the smaller Hyperion unit, which is shown sitting on top of the Ex unit in some of the photos. A couple of the photos show the HyperAccess unit and the HyperRam unit which fit together via a 50 pin connection. The joined unit then plugs into the 50 pin female slot on the back of the Hyperion. Let me know if you have any questions. Here all of the links: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/exunitcabling.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/exunitcabling2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionandexunit.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionandexunit2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionex.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopen.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopenwide.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexserial.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionfront.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionwithramaccess.jpg From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu May 13 21:09:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16548.7605.609000.688563@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 09:15 PM 5/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: > > Ethan> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 10:34:22PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the > >> RK07 or > build a solid state RK07 replacement. > >> > >> It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer > >> system is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it > >> as well. Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not > >> the same as running one with a demountable hard disk. > > Ethan> While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to > Ethan> do more than play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest > Ethan> Unibus disk (that wasn't on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s > Ethan> on an RL11. These days, I have bigger Unibus CPUs (11/44, > Ethan> 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still a limit > Ethan> for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the > Ethan> 11/44 or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D > Ethan> machines) > > Ethan> Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm > Ethan> pretty much stuck with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution > Ethan> that emulates _some_ DEC disk controller (to avoid burning > Ethan> boot PROMs, writing drivers for every OS I'd want to play > Ethan> with, etc.). In order, a good solution for me would work with > Ethan> 2BSD, RT-11, RSX and RSTS... there's plenty of interfaces that > Ethan> fit the bill. > >If you can find adequate documentation for MSCP -- which should be >doable -- then an MSCP controller would make a lot of sense. It's >more complex in a sense, but it's command packet oriented, so the CSR >piece is trivial. That one you can definitely do with just a register >file to provide a register window (plus a DMA, but that can actually >just be controller software reaching through a memory window over the >Unibus). > >One clear advantage is that you can pretty much pick whatever device >size you want, because drivers query the controller for the disk size >and believe what they are told. With older devices, you're stuck with >the particular device sizes that existed then. > >If not MSCP, the next obvious choice is RH11, because that gives you >the widest choice of the biggest drives, and it doesn't seem >significantly harder than any of the others. I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to be used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be useless. --tom From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu May 13 20:50:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard References: <40A3D0C8.2010009@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <07db01c43959$58087b80$6401a8c0@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scarletdown" To: "Classic Bits" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard > I'm looking for a manual and other info on this old 386 motherboard that > I am trying to build into a working DOS 6.22/WfW 3.11 system for playing > old games and to play around with DOS TCP/IP networking. The board, > according to the BIOS string, is from Wintac-Edom (The BIOS string is: > > E0X3-1379-083090-K0 Beyond that, I can't seem to find any other info on > this, as there are no other identifying markings that I can find. > > Here's a pic of the board... > > http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GKW-Edom-MB-0.JPG > > Anyway, I currently have it set up with a VGA card, a 16-bit MIO card, > Adaptec AHA 1542CF SCSI adapter, Databook PCMCIA card reader, PnP > Soundblaster, 3Com EtherLink III 3c509 NIC, SCSI CD-ROM drive, 210MB > Hard drive as the master drive, 1.5GB hard drive set as slave (will put > EZ-BIOS on it shortly to make it useable on this old board), 386/DX-25 > (or 33, I don't remember at the moment which) CPU, and 8MB of RAM in the > form of 8 1MB 30 Pin SIMMs). > > So, when I boot up, she goes through the memory test, then the SCSI card > does its self-test. After that, I get an error about the hard drive > (this is because I haven't set either drive up yet), and am given the > option to hit F1 to go to setup. > > Well, when I go into BIOS setup, everything freezes on me, no response > at all from the keyboard, and all I can do is hit reset or power down. > Odd thing is, though; I can boot up with a DOS floppy and access the C > drive just fine, though the D drive is not yet visible of course. > > What would be causing this freezeup when I go to BIOS setup? And, where > can I find a manual for this board? > > Thanks > To me it looks like this board: http://www.megasat.ch/totalhardware/m/U-Z/30325.htm WINCAL TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION OPTI-25 Processor 80386DX Processor Speed 25MHz Chip Set OPTI Max. Onboard DRAM 8MB Cache None BIOS AMI Dimensions 330mm x 218mm I/O Options 32-bit external memory card slot NPU Options 80387/3167 From donm at cts.com Thu May 13 22:20:49 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40A41E01.6080109@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > > little speckles if anything...) > > Pedant Mode=On > > That would depend mostly on the relative viscosities, the spray > aperture, and the pressure. > > Pedant Mode=Off > > Doc There used to be - may still be available - back in the latter '50s a sprayable paint named Zolatone. It created a sort of polka-dot effect with a light texture. Typically, it was multicolor, but could also be purchased in monotone, IIRC. - don From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 22:44:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200405140346.XAA04322@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > metric crescent wrench > rubber nails > spotted paint > (all of which actually exist) I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 23:49:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405140346.XAA04322@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > metric crescent wrench > > rubber nails > > spotted paint > > (all of which actually exist) > > I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? > Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From donm at cts.com Fri May 14 00:16:58 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A month or so ago, there was considerable scurry to locate a site that housed the complete archive. Such was found and published, and I took note and put the URL away for safekeeping. Too safe, regrettably, as I can not now find it. Hopefully, one of you is better organized and can 'refresh' my bad memory. Thanks!!! - don From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 14 00:41:49 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 13 May 2004 21:09, Tom Uban wrote: > I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to be > used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be useless. But who'd ever want to run an OLD os on classic hardware?? Seriously, you've got a point, and I hadn't thought about that fact before. Part of the issue is that I don't have any of that "old" versions of software/OS that won't talk MSCP. So, what devices would give us the largest range of possibilties for software compatibilty at the larges size? If we're to use a microcontroller to run this board, then it'd be possible to have "changable firmware", and either change it to emulate the type of device you want, or to emulate multiple devices. On second thought, you probably don't need a microcontroller for that, but it seems easier than going the FPGA/PLD route to do it. In 1970 pdp11 handbook: - no disks, just a teletype and papertape reader are listed. Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK11/RK05 - 2.4MB disk pack - RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RP04 - 100MB (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL11/RL01 - 5MB disk pack Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK06 - RK11, 14MB disk pack - RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack - RM02/03 - RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack Added in 1981/2 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL02 - 10MB disk pack - RP06 - 176MB disk pack - RP07 - 516MB winchester - RM05 - 256MB winchester - RM80 - 124MB winchester So, it looks like to me the best choices would be an RK11/RK05(06,07), an RP11/RP04(05,06,07), an RX11/RX01 and and RL11/RL01(02) emulator. If I were to pick a single choice right now, I'd probably pick the RP11 controller, for the breadth of possible sizes (from 40MB in 1973 to 516MB in 1981), and put RL11 as a second choice, simply because I've got one. :) RK11/RK05 seems too small to be worthwhile, but the RK06 and RK07 aren't bad sizes. Now, I haven't looked much into complexity yet, but at first glance through register descriptions, RL11 takes the cake on simplicity on just 4 registers, RK11 is middle-ground with 7, and RM11&RP11 are the most complex, with at least 20 registers. So, as a first try, I'd probably go for the RL11 for simplicity and then once that was working, try for the RK11 or RM11/RP11 interfaces. These all seem a lot simpler than MSCP (UDA50/KDA50) interface emulation, and support media that should be "large enough" for most people (1/2GB). In fact, the drive in my VAXstation 3200 is only 650MB, and it feels big with VMS 5.3 on it. For the actually data storage, I think you'll want to use flash or a writeable hard drive (perhaps even a 2.5" laptop IDE drive mounted on the UNIBUS controller card). It seems novel to have a 8 (emulated drive) x 516MB (4GB total) UNIBUS storage card that takes up a single SPC slot. Hey Tom, have you started at all on your RK11 emulator? Want to compare notes on this? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 00:45:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >A month or so ago, there was considerable scurry to locate a site >that housed the complete archive. Such was found and published, >and I took note and put the URL away for safekeeping. Too safe, >regrettably, as I can not now find it. > >Hopefully, one of you is better organized and can 'refresh' my bad >memory. Thanks!!! Not better organized, just knew I'd replied to the thread :^) http://cd.textfiles.com/pcblue/ I recommend looking at the rest of the site as well, I found something there I've been searching for 10 years for. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri May 14 00:56:46 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A45F9E.1010609@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > >>>metric crescent wrench >>>rubber nails >>>spotted paint >>>(all of which actually exist) >> >>I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? >>Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? > > > And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? Keep a rubber tree from bouncing, of course! :) Doc From aek at spies.com Fri May 14 02:10:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: HP BPC description Message-ID: <200405140710.i4E7A4HV003022@spies.com> I've just uploaded a scan of the 9845 assembler development rom which describes the BPC (among other things..) http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/98xx/09845-91083_asmDevRom_Mar80.pdf From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri May 14 02:20:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal Message-ID: All, It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The Netherlands. After a brief period of dealing with an extremely malicious form of cancer, his body decided to give up late yesterday afternoon, May 13th, 2004. About 15 years ago, Sipke got me started in the PDP-11 collection "biz", when I had to get rid of my 11/40's, /34's and associated periphs. My uncle had a friend (Sipke) who'd probably take them, and, sure enough, he took them in. When I saw his place, filled with all sorts of old computers, I decided to "do that too when I grow up". I still have the MicroPDP-11 he gave me then. Last week, I got forwarded a message of one of his friends, asking for a new home for a (PDP-11) computer collection, because the owner had gotten seriously ill and had to let go. I was the first to respond, and "got" the collection. Sometime later, I started to realize that the list of equipment sounded familiar. When the intermediate friend told me that the owner lived in Noordwijk, all alarms went off. Some checking (I called his number) clarified things.. indeed, it was Sipke's collection, and he indeed was very ill. Still.. we hoped for some more time for goodbyes, a chat, and so on. I'll be taking care of his systems, which, as he put it, with a smile, "were kinda overdue in picking up, after 15 years!" Rust zacht, dear Sipke, and watch your blinkenlights go! Sipke's site is at http://xgistor.ath.cx/aboutme.htm. Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From GOOI at oce.nl Fri May 14 02:53:54 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC9@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Farewell, Sipke. Rest in peace, and laugh at us from above! - Henk. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 14 02:26:22 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040514092622.55783ec5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 22:34:22 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > To me, a classic computer system > is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. > Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as > running one with a demountable hard disk. Very true. The sound of a spinning disk... But I have only one RK07 medium. So I can not benefit from the posibility to swap media. And: Disk drives are prone to fail. Lots of mechanical stuff that weres out much faster then electronic. The ideal solution is to have the solid state disk for dad-to-day use and the real drive for the feel of it, data exchange, ... > > I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic > DEC managed with a handful of TTL. Sure. But a FPGA is run time reconfigurable so I can emulate what ever interface I want. I can even emulate multiple different interfaces at the same time as a FPGA has enough complexity. (Maybe a RK07 and a TS11) Meanwhile I got a private mail from someone who has a QBus board in prototype state. It looks much like my proposed UniBus solution with FPGA and PowerPC CPU. There will be a UniBus version if this QBus board becomes a success. So it looks like we just have to wait for this solution to all our QBus / UniBus storage problems. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 14 04:08:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: OT: Any PHP gurus? I have a question... Message-ID: Are there any hardcore PHP gurus out there that can help me with an unusual PHP construct (converting an array into a list of elements to pass as parameters into a function)? Please e-mail me privately. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bpope at wordstock.com Fri May 14 06:37:26 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 13, 04 09:14:01 pm Message-ID: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > > > > Canned Sunshine > > Unobtanium ;) > > Round Tuits > > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > fools' errands for... > > Muffler Bearings > Flight Line > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > Prop Wash > > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > > -ethan Skyhooks! Cheers, Bryan Pope From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri May 14 07:01:10 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <7320f0ae4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> "Torquil MacCorkle, III" wrote: > If a hobby is 'cheap', you are not into it enough. :) Sounds about right. There are some things that are worth having, though - case in point being the soldering station (an Antex 660-TC) I bought the other day. Having used it all of three times, I've relegated the non-temperature-controlled monstrosity I used before (a 25W that ran at around 450C) to the back of the cupboard. While I'm on the subject of soldering stations, is there any generally-agreed "best" temperature for 60/40 Multicore solder? I've got the station set to 350C at the moment (increased 375 if I'm using desolder wick). I'll be damned if I can find the datasheet for the solder I'm using on Multicore's website though :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Captain, Permission to hook up blender attachments to Mr Spock From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri May 14 07:10:42 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> Message-ID: Bryan, For some nice Sky Hooks look: http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm (Not a bad deal for under $80K) Or http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly more relaxing. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:37 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... >>> >>> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: >>> > >>> > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> > > >>> > > Canned Sunshine >>> > > Unobtanium ;) >>> > > Round Tuits >>> > >>> > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" >>> are sent on >>> > fools' errands for... >>> > >>> > Muffler Bearings >>> > Flight Line >>> > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>> > Prop Wash >>> > >>> > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >>> > >>> > -ethan >>> >>> Skyhooks! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Bryan Pope From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri May 14 07:27:09 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... References: Message-ID: <001301c439ae$c6c6b320$7d2c1941@game> $80K in 1960's money is how much today? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: RE: A little help from my friends... > Bryan, > > For some nice Sky Hooks look: > > http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm (Not a bad deal > for under $80K) > > Or > > http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly more relaxing. > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope > >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:37 AM > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... > >>> > >>> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > >>> > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > >>> > > > >>> > > Canned Sunshine > >>> > > Unobtanium ;) > >>> > > Round Tuits > >>> > > >>> > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" > >>> are sent on > >>> > fools' errands for... > >>> > > >>> > Muffler Bearings > >>> > Flight Line > >>> > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > >>> > Prop Wash > >>> > > >>> > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > >>> > > >>> > -ethan > >>> > >>> Skyhooks! > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Bryan Pope > > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri May 14 07:33:22 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405140833.22824.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 14 May 2004 08:10, David V. Corbin wrote: > Bryan, > > For some nice Sky Hooks look: > > http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm (Not a bad > deal for under $80K) > > Or > > http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly more relaxing. When I hear skyhook I think of the climbing tool ~13.00. There was a group that was looking into mining asteroids that was looking at similar ideas. I suggested to them that they look at burdock, since a skyhook might be difficult to place by remote control. - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFApLySLPrIaE/xBZARAhnjAJ9CZpYa2TLB2aSXidnUedYGSuQxjwCfbnDO wF4TUHjaWAsdFF8u5AQ1efo= =GQvq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri May 14 07:40:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <001301c439ae$c6c6b320$7d2c1941@game> Message-ID: Money is relative, of course. But compare to the price of a PDP-8 (with peripherials).... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Teo Zenios >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:27 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... >>> >>> $80K in 1960's money is how much today? >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "David V. Corbin" >>> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:10 AM >>> Subject: RE: A little help from my friends... >>> >>> >>> > Bryan, >>> > >>> > For some nice Sky Hooks look: >>> > >>> > http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm >>> (Not a bad deal >>> > for under $80K) >>> > >>> > Or >>> > >>> > http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly >>> more relaxing. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:37 AM >>> > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> > >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... >>> > >>> >>> > >>> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> > >>> > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > Canned Sunshine >>> > >>> > > Unobtanium ;) >>> > >>> > > Round Tuits >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" >>> > >>> are sent on >>> > >>> > fools' errands for... >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Muffler Bearings >>> > >>> > Flight Line >>> > >>> > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>> > >>> > Prop Wash >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -ethan >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Skyhooks! >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Cheers, >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Bryan Pope >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 08:04:48 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 14:46:14 EDT." <16547.49782.92433.486926@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405141304.i4ED4mI24485@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: >.... Again, a software emulation may not get there in time. Yes, agreed. My plan was to be able to have the cpld "hold off" the unibus cpu until the micro could "get there in time" in the cases where that was needed. This is the heart of the shared-register-file-interlock issue. >You might try to cheat by holding off SSYN on the Unibus read until >any pending CSR fixups are done, but then the microcontroller has a >rather tight time limit (20 microseconds or so). :-) as Homer Simpson says, "good idea, boss!" My plan is to try and make that work. 20us is not a huge amount of time but it is in the relm of the possible. Off the cuff I'd say it would be tight for a 40mhz pic; it might be easier on an ARM7 with an fiq interrupt. I plan to simulate the unibus hdl, figure out the window and plan the micro and it's code around that window. -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 08:06:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 20:16:50 +0200." <20040513201650.6c3f2a1f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200405141306.i4ED6d624539@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jochen Kunz wrote: ... >> For older disk controllers, this approach is likely to be hard because >> touching CSRs causes actions to take place, >Programm and wire the CPLD so that it generates an interrupt to the PIC >when the register file is touched. Issue a vector along with the >interrupt that tels the PIC which CSR was touched. yes, but you also need to worry about back-to-back accesses by the unibus cpu. the 'card micro' needs to be able to get in and do it's magic between the unibus cpu's two cycles... i.e. bus locking... -brad From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri May 14 08:15:15 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> References: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <40A4C663.7070602@sbcglobal.net> Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > >>On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >> >>That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >>fools' errands for... >> >>Muffler Bearings >>Flight Line >>Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>Prop Wash >> >>... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >> >>-ethan > > > Skyhooks! > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > And don't forget the all important left handed smoke shifters, for when you go out camping... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 08:25:42 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16548.51414.875000.752843@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: >> If you can find adequate documentation for MSCP -- which should >> be doable -- then an MSCP controller would make a lot of sense. Tom> I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to Tom> be used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be Tom> useless. Ok, that's true if you want to run early releases of the various PDP11 operating systems. All the late releases support MSCP. Ok, with the definite exception of DOS and the possible exception of IAS and DSM-11. :-) So for earlier ones, RH11 still seems like a good choice, unless it's really old (like early DOS) in which case the RP11 (RP02/RP03 controller) might be good. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 08:27:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Any PHP gurus? I have a question... References: Message-ID: <009301c439b7$43a1eba0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Are there any hardcore PHP gurus out there that can help me with an > unusual PHP construct (converting an array into a list of elements to pass > as parameters into a function)? > > Please e-mail me privately. Thanks! Sellam; I'm not a php programmer, but I sit next to a large team of incredibly good PHP programmers. They are thinking the PHP function you want is "list". This will take an array and assign the array members to variables. Then you can call your function with those variables. If the number of elements in the array is always variable/unknown, you may have a problem with this approach. But it depends on if the unknown number of array elements is huge or small, and how important later members of the array are (ie. is it ok of they are lost). Let me clarify with an example. Example : Lets say you know that there are 3 elements in your array. You can assign them to individual variables as follows: list($first,$second,$third) = array(1,3); Then you can call your function with the parameters $first, $second, $third, etc. Now for the gotchas that occur when you don't know how many values are going to be in the array (ie. it's not always constant). If your array is fairly small as to number of elements, you can simply use the above construct and pass ALL array elements to the list function, and then hard code all those variables to pass to your function. However, your function will have to look at each variable, and stop when the particular parameter is null/undefined. If your array is dimensioned fairly small, the code would not look messy really and this would be a fine approach. But if you have 50 or a 100 elements in your array the code would be really icky-looking. But note that if you have less variables specified in your list function than the array members specified on the right hand side, those array variables are silently ignored in the assignment. Ok, now if I could just find someone on the list to help me with a libtool/automake problem I'm having... :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 12:24:43 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C22@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <200405131724.i4DHOjrQ003030@mail.bcpl.net> On 13 May 2004 at 9:57, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > Only a very minor detail, but I beleive that the certain Zilog chip > designations also indicate the max clock speed. For instance the > Z0800110PSC is a Z8001 (Z08001.. portion), with a max clock speed of > 10MHz (..10.. portion).... The 1983 Zilog databook "Ordering Information" section designates speed grades by letter suffix. No suffix is 4 MHZ, "A" is 6.0 MHz, and "B" is 10 MHz, so a 10 MHz Z8001 in a plastic DIP with a 0-to-70 C temperature range would be ordered as "Z8001B PS". However, two things occurred to me: 1. The parts predate or postdate the databook sufficiently that the ordering codes had changed. Are there obvious date codes on the chips? 2. The parts aren't Zilog issue at all, but rather AMD (a second-source). Are there obvious Zilog (stylized "Z") or AMD (up/right-pointing arrow) logos on the parts? -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 12:36:29 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622468@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <200405131736.i4DHaVrQ015190@mail.bcpl.net> On 13 May 2004 at 10:35, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > Any chance that the data book has a datasheet for the Z8016. Yup, "Direct Memory Access Transfer Controller", 4.0 and 6.0 MHz, 32 pages. I'll scan that too when I do the others. -- Dave From ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se Thu May 13 12:57:02 2004 From: ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513181911.173d13fc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 13 May, 2004 18:19 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted > > > On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:10 -0700 (PDT) > "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > > Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about 27K bytes of block > > RAM that can be used as RAM or ROM, and you could fit at least a > > couple of 100 MHz 16 bit CPUs inside plus whatever other hardware was > > required. > Interresting. > But can I get a PowerPC CPU + FPU + SDRAM interface in that? > Xilinx has embedded PowerPCs inside Virtex-II FPGAs. SDRAM interface is certailnly possible to arrange on that kind of FPGA, if you need. PCI is certainly possible to achieve at a cost (money or blood, sweat & tears). For more info go see the site below. http://www.xilinx.com/ipcenter/processor_central/ultracontroller/index.htm > > An other interresting Question: > Are there free developement tools for the FPGAs available? Probably not for this one. Anything commercial and good enough to handle these big FPGAs will cost you dearly. Without any detailed knowledge I would guess you will end up at about 10 to 20 kUSD (or more) for a profes- sional design kit (e.g. Synplify HDL synthesis, Xilinx ISE place & route, ALDEC AHDL simulator, all these Win blech :) The more *IX you want the more bucks you have to pour into it. I know about gEDA and Icarus verilog, but have so far had no luck... > I have no PeeCee and I refuse to tuch M$ Bloat+Bugware. We are all admitted to have an opinion, no matter how unpractical... ;) Good luck. /Ulf A. From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 13:04:17 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040512182518.008c1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200405131804.i4DI4LrQ011766@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 May 2004 at 18:25, Joe R. wrote: > I'd just like to get a quick overview to begin with but if you don't > mind scanning the whole thing I can post if on my website or I'm sure > that Al would post it on his. I'll see how much I can get accomplished this weekend and will post the URLs back here. One question (also mentioned in another post): I assumed that these were Zilog parts, but I can't tell from the picture you posted. Is the manufacturer apparent from the chips? > Thanks, You're welcome. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 13:13:05 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 May 2004 at 7:16, vrs wrote: > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > better choices? The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB addressing range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds (far faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, and about $4.00 in single lots. -- Dave From rwhulvey at broadcom.com Thu May 13 13:21:08 2004 From: rwhulvey at broadcom.com (Rob Hulvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: finds from TRW Swapmeet (AKA Northrup Grumman swap meet) today Message-ID: <005e01c43917$10f3ca20$0dfd090a@BROADCOM.COM> Very interesting to see RH32 in the swap meet. I worked some on verification boards for RH32 in '93 and again in '95. Sounds like the board you have was made after I left in '95, since it includes Orca FPGAs which I don't think came about until after that time. We mostly used Actel FPGAs when I was there. It was a fault-tolerant design which was supposed to detect a fault, then back up and start re-executing code prior to the fault. The boards I worked on had only 1 CPU chip, 2 MMUs (for for instructions (IMMU) and 1 for operands (OMMU)), and a connector for an SCU (I forget what that was ... system control unit?) daughtercard, as well as an FPU (floating point unit) daughtercard. I think it was designed to support multiprocessor configs, but we only tested single-processor, as we were bringing it up for the 1st time. As I recall, RH32 was started around '88, supposed to complete around '91, but was about 2 years late in '93 when I started working there. I think it was finally announced in '98: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0EKF/n2232_v44/21034857/p1/article.jhtml There were also efforts by IBM to make silicon-on-saphire versions of their RISC System 6000 CPUs which supposedly did not need the explicit hardware fault tolerance used in RH32, since the process was inherently resistant to radiation induced faults. I don't know if it was ever shown to work well. Seems to be a lot of info on the 'net about compiling code for RH32, and even references to it in source files. I guess they ported Linux to the thing long after I had left. I recall TRW contracted Green Hills Software to make tools for it. -Rob Hulvey From g-wright at att.net Thu May 13 18:20:27 2004 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Need Help On a PDP 11/60 Message-ID: <051320042320.28591.40A402BA000D89F900006FAF2161243646FF8B9798968D88D2@att.net> Hi Everyone I have some (3) PDP 11/60's that I'm trying to get running. I did manage to get all of the Power supplies going, removed all of the cards and cleaned them. check the cable routing and power supply voltages. I have got the LA-01 and TE-10's running. These systems have been setting since 1986. I do have All zeros in the console display. No other console lights come on ???? . no responce from any keyed input. The Memory cards all have power LEDS turned on (m7984 Mos) The Memory controller has a LED but it's off ?? (M7983) These are from a large test system and each has 5 to 6 cabinets. So in time I want to trim these down to the Base double wide corp. cabinet only. It looks like the board label on top of each card cage matches the cards. I believe the grant cards are all there where needed. Most of the slots in the 2 main card cages are full. The memory back plane does not have grant cards in the open slots and from the manuals I have, this looks correct ?? The question for now is what do the LEDs on the M7878 (11/60 status card, all on) and M7872 (11/60 micro word card, all but the top 3 are on) stand for or tell you. I do not have any manuals on the cards and a quick search did not turn up much. I posted this yesterday and it did not show up so this is a second post. so if you see 2 of these you know why. Yes, I might need help with my power bill also. Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright JLC inc g-wright@worldnet.att.net From karamatk at isb.paknet.com.pk Fri May 14 01:52:52 2004 From: karamatk at isb.paknet.com.pk (Karamat Ali) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: VMS 5.5_2 Help Message-ID: <001101c43980$142fa380$f30187cb@jazz> Hi Hi i came across searching VMX 5.5-2. there i found your contact. I need these manuals.if you please can provide me these manuals i wll be thankful.Regards,Karamat Ali Khan. I came across these DEC VAX manuals while looking for something else. Am not selling, but will provide information from these if needed non-commercially. DECserver 300 RF30 / RF71 R215F KFQSA BA46 RRD42 StorageWorks family user guide VMS 5.5-2 release notes VMS 5.5 upgrade From javickers at solutionengineers.com Fri May 14 07:49:23 2004 From: javickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> At 17:00 13/05/2004 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > > fools' errands for... > > > > Muffler Bearings > > Flight Line > > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > > Prop Wash > > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > >metric crescent wrench >rubber nails >spotted paint >(all of which actually exist) I can't believe that these ones have been missed: A new bubble for the spirit level A long weight A bucket of steam A glass hammer A short stand -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 08:45:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514074618.03555eb8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 12:41 AM 5/14/2004 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Thursday 13 May 2004 21:09, Tom Uban wrote: > > I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to be > > used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be useless. > >But who'd ever want to run an OLD os on classic >hardware?? > >Seriously, you've got a point, and I hadn't thought about that fact >before. Part of the issue is that I don't have any of that "old" >versions of software/OS that won't talk MSCP. Well, V6 Unix did not have an MSCP driver that I know of. I ported an RL11 driver to my copy a number of years ago, so it barely had that. There may have been some more complex drivers for V6 later on. I would also guess that versions of standard DEC OS and diagnostics which predated the MSCP exist as well. >So, what devices would give us the largest range of possibilties for >software compatibilty at the larges size? I'm thinking RK11 and RP11. >If we're to use a microcontroller to run this board, then it'd be >possible to have "changable firmware", and either change it to emulate >the type of device you want, or to emulate multiple devices. On second >thought, you probably don't need a microcontroller for that, but it >seems easier than going the FPGA/PLD route to do it. An FPGA would potentially allow for a large number of registers all in a single package, that could be "re-wired" as necessary after the design was completed. If discrete logic is used for the registers, then the design will end up being fixed. A micro-controller would allow for the management of the disk space independent of the PDP-11. > > >In 1970 pdp11 handbook: >- no disks, just a teletype and papertape reader are listed. > >Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RK11/RK05 - 2.4MB disk pack >- RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack > >Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RP04 - 100MB (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) > >Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RL11/RL01 - 5MB disk pack > >Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RK06 - RK11, 14MB disk pack >- RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack >- RM02/03 - RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack > >Added in 1981/2 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RL02 - 10MB disk pack >- RP06 - 176MB disk pack >- RP07 - 516MB winchester >- RM05 - 256MB winchester >- RM80 - 124MB winchester > >So, it looks like to me the best choices would be an RK11/RK05(06,07), >an RP11/RP04(05,06,07), an RX11/RX01 and and RL11/RL01(02) emulator. >If I were to pick a single choice right now, I'd probably pick the RP11 >controller, for the breadth of possible sizes (from 40MB in 1973 to >516MB in 1981), and put RL11 as a second choice, simply because I've >got one. :) RK11/RK05 seems too small to be worthwhile, but the RK06 >and RK07 aren't bad sizes. I'm not sure how much it matters if the emulated controllers match up with the physical ones that we have or not. An RL11 shouldn't be much more difficult than an RK11 emulation. >Now, I haven't looked much into complexity yet, but at first glance >through register descriptions, RL11 takes the cake on simplicity on >just 4 registers, RK11 is middle-ground with 7, and RM11&RP11 are the >most complex, with at least 20 registers. > >So, as a first try, I'd probably go for the RL11 for simplicity and then >once that was working, try for the RK11 or RM11/RP11 interfaces. These >all seem a lot simpler than MSCP (UDA50/KDA50) interface emulation, and >support media that should be "large enough" for most people (1/2GB). >In fact, the drive in my VAXstation 3200 is only 650MB, and it feels >big with VMS 5.3 on it. With an FPGA, it should be fairly easy to start small and work from there. >For the actually data storage, I think you'll want to use flash or a >writeable hard drive (perhaps even a 2.5" laptop IDE drive mounted on >the UNIBUS controller card). It seems novel to have a 8 (emulated >drive) x 516MB (4GB total) UNIBUS storage card that takes up a single >SPC slot. > >Hey Tom, have you started at all on your RK11 emulator? Want to compare >notes on this? I've started thinking more about it, so if that counts... I've also been collecting people's comments on the idea over the years. When I get started in earnest depends on what my schedule ends up looking like this summer. --tom >Pat >-- >Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ >The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 08:47:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) References: Message-ID: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Fred wrote... > It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very > untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The > Netherlands. Very sad. My thoughts are with him and his family. It does make me think... what should happen to my prized/cherished collection if I die suddenly. On the one hand, I'd prefer it to go free to listmembers who have helped me over the years, not the local smelter. On the other hand, my wife has put up with the hobby for so long - and bit her lip often when I spent "her" money on collection items. I would definitely want some money for the collection or parts of it (my gorgeous dual bay 8E and dual bay HP2000 would no doubt fetch "serious" money) to go to my wife. Just to let her know some of it was actually worth something. Yes, you can all take a copy of this email to my wife if I go suddenly as proof of my wishes :) She would have NO clue how to go about dispersing the collection, who to talk to, etc. I wouldn't mind an H8 or two going free to listmembers, but I can't stand the thought of some non-listmember, just someone off the street - offering her $5 for a pristine H8 and walking off with it cause she wouldn't know any better. Of course, not only the collection, but I'd have to arrange for someone to take over ownership of this list.... Maybe the best route is for me to contact several list members and give them my general wishes, and then let them take care of the entire disposition of the collection. Just writing it up in a will isn't sufficient, I would want someone I know knows what they are dealing with to be the one directing it. Time for reflective thought methinks. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri May 14 08:46:45 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad Message-ID: <009501c439ba$52e8b820$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> What type of mouse do you have? > Yes, that was my first question too: > "an optical pad for what kind of mouse?". I had responded to Tom U. offline: > Mouse Systems m4 (on a Sun) John A. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri May 14 08:59:36 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://cd.textfiles.com g. On Thu, 13 May 2004, Don Maslin wrote: > > > A month or so ago, there was considerable scurry to locate a site > that housed the complete archive. Such was found and published, > and I took note and put the URL away for safekeeping. Too safe, > regrettably, as I can not now find it. > > Hopefully, one of you is better organized and can 'refresh' my bad > memory. Thanks!!! > > - don > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 08:59:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: Patrick> So, what devices would give us the largest range of Patrick> possibilties for software compatibilty at the larges size? Patrick> Patrick> In 1970 pdp11 handbook: - no disks, just a teletype and Patrick> papertape reader are listed. Patrick> Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK11/RK05 - Patrick> 2.4MB disk pack - RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack You left out the RC11 and RF11 :-) Patrick> Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RP04 - 100MB Patrick> (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) Nope. RP11 controls the RP03 and RP02 (half of the RP03) drives -- basically IBM 2314 lookalikes. The RP04 is the first PDP11 Massbus disk; it uses the RH11 (or RH70 for 11/70s) controller. It's 88 MB (half of the RP06). Patrick> Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL11/RL01 - 5MB Patrick> disk pack Patrick> Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK06 - RK11, Patrick> 14MB disk pack - RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack - RM02/03 - Patrick> RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack RH11... there is no such thing as RM11. The RK06/07 controller is called RK611. (RK11 is the RK05 controller.) Patrick> Added in 1981/2 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL02 - 10MB Patrick> disk pack - RP06 - 176MB disk pack - RP07 - 516MB winchester Patrick> - RM05 - 256MB winchester - RM80 - 124MB winchester Patrick> So, it looks like to me the best choices would be an Patrick> RK11/RK05(06,07), an RP11/RP04(05,06,07), an RX11/RX01 and Patrick> and RL11/RL01(02) emulator. If I were to pick a single Patrick> choice right now, I'd probably pick the RP11 controller, for Patrick> the breadth of possible sizes (from 40MB in 1973 to 516MB in Patrick> 1981), and put RL11 as a second choice, simply because I've Patrick> got one. :) RK11/RK05 seems too small to be worthwhile, but Patrick> the RK06 and RK07 aren't bad sizes. So actually that would be the RH11 for max flexibility; that gives you RP04/5/6/7, RM02/3/5, and RM80. You can have up to 8 drives (that's true for most of the others -- but RL11 is limited to 4). Also, two RH11/RH70 controllers per system is a standard config that most DEC operating systems support, while more than one of the other disk controllers isn't. RK11 may be a good choice -- even though the drive is quite small -- for *very* old OS versions. RP11 (RP03 drive) might also serve, but I suspect support for that isn't as common. For example, I know DOS-11 V4 works on RK11, I don't know if there's an RP03 version for it. Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 emulator might be helpful... :-) paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri May 14 09:07:18 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov><200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com><20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> Message-ID: <40658.80.242.32.51.1084543638.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > A new bubble for the spirit level > A long weight > A bucket of steam > A glass hammer > A short stand > some sparks for the grinder tartan paint left-handed hammer/screwdriver -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 09:06:56 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 19:57:02 +0200." Message-ID: <200405141406.i4EE6uR25691@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Ulf Andersson" wrote: >> >Xilinx has embedded PowerPCs inside Virtex-II FPGAs. SDRAM interface is >certailnly possible to arrange on that kind of FPGA, if you need. PCI is >certainly possible to achieve at a cost (money or blood, sweat & tears). These are extremely expensive parts, however... And the support to boot them is non-trivial. (not to mention the number of layers of pcb you'd need just to route the bga signals) I like them, but they are big $$$ -brad From bpope at wordstock.com Fri May 14 08:59:41 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40658.80.242.32.51.1084543638.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from "Witchy" at May 14, 04 03:07:18 pm Message-ID: <200405141359.JAA24215@wordstock.com> And thusly Witchy spake: > > > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > > > A new bubble for the spirit level > > A long weight > > A bucket of steam Hey... this could be a bucket of magic smoke to put in the chips! Cheers, Bryan > > A glass hammer > > A short stand > > > > some sparks for the grinder > tartan paint > left-handed hammer/screwdriver From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 09:09:16 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514090717.0357f278@mail.ubanproductions.com> >The RP04 is the first PDP11 Massbus disk; it uses the RH11 (or RH70 >for 11/70s) controller. It's 88 MB (half of the RP06). Right! That was the one which slipped my mind too. Definitely on the list of interesting controllers to emulate. >Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 >emulator might be helpful... :-) I had considered a TC11, but I'm not sure of the benefits other than it just being interesting... --tom From allain at panix.com Fri May 14 09:16:11 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC9@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <00ee01c439be$029f99c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Entirely shocking news to me, I had no idea. Here's some info on him, for those who are left looking for answers. his website: http://xgistor.ath.cx/ (cx = Christmas Island, Australia?) says: "Sipke heeft ons op donderdag 13 mei 2004" (in dutch?) which I take to mean that he passed just yesteday. What little I do know: Sipke was a peaceful, productive and popular member and helped to make being here on the list a better experience. Prayers to you, friend. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 09:19:08 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514090717.0357f278@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16548.54620.93000.350068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: >> Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 >> emulator might be helpful... :-) Tom> I had considered a TC11, but I'm not sure of the benefits other Tom> than it just being interesting... If you want to install DOS V4, it's about the only choice for distribution medium... paul From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri May 14 09:24:22 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> Message-ID: <1084544662.11432.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 08:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > A new bubble for the spirit level > A long weight > A bucket of steam > A glass hammer > A short stand On the submarine we used to send the nubies for sound-powered telephone batteries, 50 feet of waterline, relative bearing grease, and a machinist's punch. Just ask a machinist for a punch some time and see what happens. :-D From allain at panix.com Fri May 14 09:44:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1><000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home><00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20040513194355.614e1a8a.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <015d01c439c1$f3d65d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xh