From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 1 00:01:01 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Wichita, KS? In-Reply-To: <72499D7C-9B2B-11D8-8870-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Hi all, Mystery solved, twas from Jeff Kaneko, whom I have contacted to finish up. Thanks, Joe, for the pointer! --f From bert at brothom.nl Sat May 1 03:50:55 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff References: <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> "Joe R." wrote: > > I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 A/D card > and some other odd stuff. > > I will be posting more soon. > > Joe Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 1 06:53:20 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <20040428234825.4C93C10B2B5F@swift.conman.org> References: <20040428234825.4C93C10B2B5F@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <20040501065320.386a8d5a.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:48:25 -0400 (EDT) spc@conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > > [1] Yes, this does include BBC Basic. IMHO BASIC-09 was better than even > > that language. It supported user-defined types for one thing, and the > > ability to call subroutines written in other languages. > > The OS-9 executable format included the type of code (native code, byte > codes, etc) and with that, the system could either load and execute the > binary or load the interpreter, then the binary and execute it (or rather, > the interpreter execute it). A very modular system---think of DLLs that > could be executed. I rather like the OS. > > -spc (Never really ran it, but do have the technical documents) > I'm getting more and more excited, following this 6809 thread, because somebody at work is planning on giving me his old Tandy Color Computer. I haven't seen it yet, but he says it's a very complete system with two diskette drives, lots of cartridges and software on diskettes. He was a Radio Shack employee while he was accumulating it. I'll probably have tons and tons of diskette software once I've taken delivery on it. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat May 1 07:19:46 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: Still Looking for Parts to Complete Omnibot 2000 References: <020c01c42f1f$a29f5860$61406b43@66067007> <20040501021250.GC17249@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <004e01c42f76$9863f2f0$3f406b43@66067007> Sorry I do not have a RB5X yet. Sounds like a cool robot to have in the collection. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Still Looking for Parts to Complete Omnibot 2000 > On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 08:57:16PM -0500, Keys wrote: > > I need two items to complete my omnibot 2000 robot.... > > I don't have any parts for an OmniBot 2000, but do you (or anyone else on > the list) happen to have an RB5X? I just learned that the company is > still in business (and they respond to e-mail, eventually!) > > We had an RB5X at COSI (The Center of Science and Industry) in the mid-1980s. > Three of the folks from the company came out to the museum to show us what > it could do. One of its "features" is that you talk to it and program it > over a serial connection in... Tiny Basic. That's right... it's an INS8073- > based robot! > > I don't have any parts for one, but at home, I _think_ I still have a disc > of programs that we wrote for it twenty years ago. If anyone on the list > has one, I'd be curious to swap bits (obviously, it will take me a while to > reciprocate). > > In other 8073 news, I did hear back from someone who, I think, was affiliated > with Basicon. He promised to dig through his stacks of dusty paper and see > what he has in the way of docs for the MC-1N Rev A. If all he has is paper, > I might ask someone on the list to be the receiver in return for scans. > > -ethan > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-May-2004 02:00 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.5 F (-65.4 C) Windchill -141.6 F (-96.5 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 11.6 kts Grid 124 Barometer 672.3 mb (10917 ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 1 07:21:19 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <10520298.1083323517819.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <10520298.1083323517819.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040501072119.5ec41c07.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:11:57 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Steve Thatcher wrote: > I worked with many systems back in the middle to late 80s when the 386 was in vogue. I don't recall any of them using an older 287 math coprocessor though. Here is a link to a page full of mbs and DTK did indeed make a discrete chip 386 motherboard back then. The co-processor was a 387 though. > > http://www.redhill.net.au/b-92.html > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > I have a 386 motherboard of that vintage, a DTK board. It's a 'full AT' footprint motherboard, and has a socketed 80387 installed, but also has an unpopulated 40 pin DIP socket. My friend had a 386 motherboard in use back in that timeframe that he ran an 80287 in. I just took a number of digital photographs of the board I have and have thrown them up on some webspace I have: http://albenfor.gomen.org/386_at/ The board I have, which is one I got in a box lot at the auction of a defunct Indianapolis computer store, is a DTK Fast ET 20 (according to the board's markings). It is all discrete logic and Intel 82xx series parts, with one row of MMI gate arrays. See the photos for more details. It also has one of those proprietary daughter boards to allow it to be populated with more than the 4 megs of RAM the sockets allow for. I haven't ever powered it up but maybe I should hunt for a full-AT case and give it a try sometime. > -----Original Message----- > From: SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Apr 30, 2004 6:15 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? > > vax, 3900 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat May 1 10:02:08 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> References: <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <200405011002.08973.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 01 May 2004 03:50, Bert Thomas wrote: > "Joe R." wrote: > > I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 > > A/D card and some other odd stuff. > > >=rigdonj> I will be posting more soon. > > > > Joe > > Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? No. You need UNIBUS cards for an 11/750. That's an RQDX3, a QBUS card. You can find out what cards are using module numbers with Megan Gentry's field guide: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 1 11:17:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <200405011002.08973.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040501121747.00799cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:02 AM 5/1/04 -0500, Pat wrote: >On Saturday 01 May 2004 03:50, Bert Thomas wrote: >> "Joe R." wrote: >> > I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 >> > A/D card and some other odd stuff. >> > > >=rigdonj> I will be posting more soon. >> > >> > Joe >> >> Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? > >No. You need UNIBUS cards for an 11/750. That's an RQDX3, a QBUS card. > >You can find out what cards are using module numbers with Megan Gentry's >field guide: > >http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt That won't tell any more than the listings will since that's where the descriptions came from. However I found a copy of DEC's 1980 Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook so I may be able to give more details on the interface cards. Joe From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat May 1 11:31:32 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: The CoCo mailing list (was: 6809) In-Reply-To: <20040501065320.386a8d5a.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1gd3o8k.badofa11wt1goM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Scott Stevens wrote: > I'm getting more and more excited, following this 6809 thread, because > somebody at work is planning on giving me his old Tandy Color Computer. I > haven't seen it yet, but he says it's a very complete system with two > diskette drives, lots of cartridges and software on diskettes. He was a > Radio Shack employee while he was accumulating it. I'll probably have > tons and tons of diskette software once I've taken delivery on it. I just want to plug the current most active CoCo mailing list: http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco It is also gatewayed to: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.tandy.coco and http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.tandy.coco With the SuperIDE [1] and the SuperBoard [2] comming soon and NitrOS-9 being actively developed [3], It's a wonderful time to be into the CoCo! :) [1] [2] [3] -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From zmerch at 30below.com Sat May 1 12:02:52 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: The CoCo mailing list (was: 6809) In-Reply-To: <1gd3o8k.badofa11wt1goM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <20040501065320.386a8d5a.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040501125118.00aebff0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that tim lindner may have mentioned these words: >With the SuperIDE... I noticed this a few days ago... I have stuff to sell on ePay, and if I get enuf spare coin from that, methinks I'll be ordering one of those... ;-) > and the SuperBoard... My only problem is that these have been on the drawing board *forever*[1] and seem to have a case of feeping creaturism. It would be nice if they got the basics for *some* of the abilities of the board down[2], locked it, called it "SuperBoard Lite" and brought it out. Therefore, anyone not needing the whole shebang... I should get resubbed to the coco mailing list, tho. The spam finally drove me away (as the old list was directly linked to bit.listserv.coco & had a poor s/n ratio...) but if the new list is generally spamfree, it would be nice to get back into that again... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] as in -> Duke Nukem Forever... [2] the 2MB of RAM; Pro-Tector+; and Dual Port 16C550 UARTs would be most everything I could want; with the protector you *darned near* have a parallel port using the bus (My main printer will print from serial anyway... ;-) , the RTC can be had in either the SCSI or IDE interfaces, PS/2 keyboard would be OK, I suppose; and I guess if it was Ethernet capable would be OK for transferring files, but having "yet another Internet box"... Besides, with the serial ports, there are "serial -> internet" converter thingies out there... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 1 12:15:27 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: FA: More DEC stuff" (May 1, 12:17) References: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040501121747.00799cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10405011815.ZM13144@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 1, 12:17, Joe R. wrote: > At 10:02 AM 5/1/04 -0500, Pat wrote: > >On Saturday 01 May 2004 03:50, Bert Thomas wrote: > >> "Joe R." wrote: > >> Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? > > > >No. You need UNIBUS cards for an 11/750. That's an RQDX3, a QBUS card. > > > >You can find out what cards are using module numbers with Megan Gentry's > >field guide: > > > >http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt > > That won't tell any more than the listings will since that's where > the descriptions came from. The third column contains "Q" for Qbus or "U" for Unibus. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat May 1 12:32:46 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: The CoCo mailing list (was: 6809) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040501125118.00aebff0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1gd3rii.1ypjn34vry1dgM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > and the SuperBoard... > > My only problem is that these have been on the drawing board *forever*[1] > and seem to have a case of feeping creaturism. It would be nice if they > got the basics for *some* of the abilities of the board down[2], locked > it, called it "SuperBoard Lite" and brought it out. Therefore, anyone not > needing the whole shebang... This is _exactly_ why the SuperIDE project was initiated. Mr. Marlette wanted to do so much with the Super Board he decided to create a project with a sub set of the technologies involed. > I should get resubbed to the coco mailing list, tho. The spam finally drove > me away (as the old list was directly linked to bit.listserv.coco & had a > poor s/n ratio...) but if the new list is generally spamfree, it would be > nice to get back into that again... Absolutly spam free. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 1 12:32:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040501133216.008dcce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found two "new" Multibus cards in the last couple of weeks. The first was made by Monolithic Memories and appears to be a RAM/PROM card. The intersting thing about it is that it has three Dallas battery backed NV RAMs and two RCA 62256 SRAMS. Another oddity is that it has cutouts along the top edge, probably for some type of I/O connectors. The other card is a video card made by Matrox. Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? There are four other blocks on it that appear to be LSI ICs but it turns out that they're really DIP switches with covers on them. There is one in the top LH corner with not cover. Does anyone have docs for either of these? Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 1 14:07:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <409364EF.C85F81A5@brothom.nl> Message-ID: Bert (and everyone else ;-) > Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? Nope, the 750 is Unibus, and requires Unibus cards. The M7555 card is an RQDX3, which indeed does MFM, but it is a Qbus card. For your system, we need to find a SCSI (haha!) or ESDI controller that does MSCP, lime a Dilog or Emulex card, so we can hook up a (physically small) ESDI drive to it. I laughed about the SCSI card, because those... well, save up lots of money if you want those :) --f From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat May 1 14:29:43 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 01 May 2004 14:07, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Bert (and everyone else ;-) > > > Fred, can I use that MFM controller in my 11/750? > > Nope, the 750 is Unibus, and requires Unibus cards. The M7555 > card is an RQDX3, which indeed does MFM, but it is a Qbus card. > > For your system, we need to find a SCSI (haha!) or ESDI > controller that does MSCP, lime a Dilog or Emulex card, so we > can hook up a (physically small) ESDI drive to it. I laughed > about the SCSI card, because those... well, save up lots of > money if you want those :) If your 11/750 has a massbuss controller in it, you could always go that route. Of course, then your disk drive will be about the size of your VAX. I just got an RM03 to hook up to mine. I added pictures of mine to my specs/pics page at: http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/rm02-03.html Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat May 1 14:38:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> THIS IS NOT MY STUFF! How well does DEC stuff handle weather? FREE (no shipping - local pickup only!) five or six 6 foot racks of PDP-11/40 stuff It is well weathered - outside in mild climate for 15+ years, so condition is poor, but some parts should be usable. It was working before the long term poor storage also "washing machine sized disk drive" "maybe an RM03" also, a stove and a doghouse, and maybe some miscellaneous, particularly if/when he runs out of storage space contact Monte Hanrahan (510) 754-8373 sorry, no email until he finishes moving, although I could try to get messages to him in a few days. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From bert at brothom.nl Sat May 1 18:21:31 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:15 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <409430FB.74B91F2A@brothom.nl> > If your 11/750 has a massbuss controller in it, you could always go that > route. Of course, then your disk drive will be about the size of your > VAX. > > I just got an RM03 to hook up to mine. I added pictures of mine to my > specs/pics page at: > > http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/rm02-03.html Cool, nice ratio! ;-) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat May 1 17:35:03 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds Message-ID: > Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked > MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? Probably a character ROM. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From allain at panix.com Sat May 1 17:52:26 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> TCF (NJ annual Computer flea) http://www.tcf-nj.org report This years 'Trenton' Computer festival featured: One guy with a $5 PPC Mac table. Two Apple II's (1: good condition, 2: good extras), a IIgs. An Atari 800 w/ FDD. Tons of Suns again. This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. Laptop drives at 50? /gig One table each of Tek and HP test equipment, mid-level value. DEC: All gone! Some Compaq badge era things. Some reminiscent people talking about it. ** Still worth the trip, for good prices and volumes, but a little dull. I left in time to get a IIc complete at the recycle center for free. One guy was trying to sell NT 4.0 for $119... I didn't ask. Atypical. ** I take this as a clue that selling same there would be interesting. John A. From cb at mythtech.net Sat May 1 19:35:38 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 Message-ID: >TCF (NJ annual Computer flea) http://www.tcf-nj.org report Damn it!!! I was just thinking about this the other day and meant to put it on my calendar. I wanted to go, and today would have been better for me (now I have to see if I can get there tomorrow or not). DAMN! -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat May 1 19:49:54 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000a01c42fdf$6302d900$967ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: TCF 2004 > TCF (NJ annual Computer flea) http://www.tcf-nj.org report > > This years 'Trenton' Computer festival featured: > One guy with a $5 PPC Mac table. > Two Apple II's (1: good condition, 2: good extras), a IIgs. > An Atari 800 w/ FDD. > Tons of Suns again. > This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. > Laptop drives at 50? /gig > One table each of Tek and HP test equipment, > mid-level value. > DEC: All gone! > Some Compaq badge era things. > Some reminiscent people talking about it. ** > > Still worth the trip, for good prices and volumes, but a > little dull. I left in time to get a IIc complete at the > recycle center for free. > One guy was trying to sell NT 4.0 for $119... I didn't ask. > Atypical. > > ** I take this as a clue that selling same there > would be interesting. > > John A. > Sounds nice, too bad its not closer to here. I remember a decade ago driving down to a huge hamfest/computer show in Dayton Ohio, some nice deals there. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat May 1 20:52:50 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: Some trying to $200 for mouse Message-ID: <015301c42fe8$2e8717a0$3f406b43@66067007> Here's a Lisa 1 mouse with a asking price of $200, it closes today. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19198&item=2740783569 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 1 22:28:54 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 In-Reply-To: <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200405020330.XAA21105@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Tons of Suns again. > This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. > Laptop drives at 50? /gig Oh, man, you make me wish I drove (and found out about it earlier). I'd love to have been there for that. On reflection, though, perhaps it's just as well; otherwise I'd have driven my spare space even farther negative than it already is. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 1 22:51:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds In-Reply-To: from "Davison, Lee" at May 1, 4 11:35:03 pm Message-ID: > > > > Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked > > MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? > > Probably a character ROM. How many pins does it have? Character generator ROMs tend to be 24 pin (or maybe 28 pin). Is the 'MCH-01' marking a stuck-on label or marked directly on the package? I am suprised there's no RAM on this board, actually. That could be 16 pin packages, and thus mistaken for TTL. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 1 21:54:14 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 In-Reply-To: <000a01c42fdf$6302d900$967ca418@game> References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000a01c42fdf$6302d900$967ca418@game> Message-ID: <20040502025414.GC14028@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 08:49:54PM -0400, Teo Zenios wrote: > Sounds nice, too bad its not closer to here. I remember a decade ago driving > down to a huge hamfest/computer show in Dayton Ohio, some nice deals there. The Dayton Hamvention at the Hara Arena... http://www.hamvention.org/, IIRC... I've gone most years since 1982. Gonna miss this year, naturally. It's in a couple of weeks, if you want to go again. I _used_ to get DEC stuff there, but it's been sparse for a long time. The selection is going to be lots of modern PC stuff inside, with less and less classic stuff in the flea market. Plenty of Sun hardware, some Commodore stuff here and there. Being a Hamvention, there's lots of radio gear, but also Textronix, HP and other RF and test equipment. I get lots of loose components there, still. I picked up several tubes of 14-pin machined pin sockets for $1/tube last year (and wished I'd bought more). My usual haul lately is some replacement SPARC machine for <$50 (last year it was a SPARC-5/110 w/HME-Wide-SCSI card and half-a-boat of 32MB DIMMs for $35), an armload of discrete components, and maybe one classic machine. I missed out on the PDP-8/a that sold on Friday morning, but I did get a few DEC items from the same guy later in the day. Dayton is where I got my first PDP-8 in 1982. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-May-2004 02:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -83.2 F (-64.0 C) Windchill -141.6 F (-96.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.4 kts Grid 049 Barometer 669 mb (11042. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From nico at farumdata.dk Sun May 2 00:16:39 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > > > Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I > > just would like a box of unused blank disks. > Be very careful when ordering disks. You must specificy whether they are single or double density, and single or double sided.. I have about 100 of them, mostly still wrapped, and mainly double side double density, but I have no idea of the going price. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15-04-2004 From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun May 2 01:18:20 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: TCF 2004 References: <200405011429.43736.pat@computer-refuge.org> <008001c42fce$f9eddba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200405020330.XAA21105@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <001201c4300d$44221950$967ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: Re: TCF 2004 > > Tons of Suns again. > > This year in the Sparcstation IPX formfactor. > > Laptop drives at 50? /gig > > Oh, man, you make me wish I drove (and found out about it earlier). > I'd love to have been there for that. > > On reflection, though, perhaps it's just as well; otherwise I'd have > driven my spare space even farther negative than it already is. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > If a few laptop HD's will take up all your spare space you better get a bigger house :) The problem with these events is that you always go there looking for one thing and end up coming home with allot of other treasure. I am running out of space to setup and store my small collection already (meaning without turning the whole house into a warehouse). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun May 2 08:44:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040502094417.0083b340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:51 AM 5/2/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> >> > Everything on it is TTL except for one LSI IC marked >> > MCH-01. Anyone know what that might be? >> >> Probably a character ROM. > >How many pins does it have? Character generator ROMs tend to be 24 pin (or >maybe 28 pin). Is the 'MCH-01' marking a stuck-on label or marked >directly on the package? > >I am suprised there's no RAM on this board, actually. That could be 16 >pin packages, and thus mistaken for TTL. The four columms of ICs on the RH side are 2114 SRAMs (GTEus no less.) There are a total or 24 of them. They're 1k x 4 each so that makes a total of 12k bytes of RAM. The large LSIC has 24 pins and th enumbers are marked directly on the package. It has four 74ls367 93 state buffers), four 74ls243 (Quad 3state bus transeiver) and one 74ls00 (Quad 2 input NAND) that are in sockets. Any idea why they'd be socketed but the rest aren't? Joe > >-tony > > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun May 2 09:07:19 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: New Multibus finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040502094417.0083b340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040502094417.0083b340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405020707.19927.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Sunday 02 May 2004 06:44, Joe R. wrote: --snip-- > It has four 74ls367 93 state buffers), four 74ls243 (Quad 3state bus > transeiver) and one 74ls00 (Quad 2 input NAND) that are in sockets. Any > idea why they'd be socketed but the rest aren't? Typically manf. socketed chips they found failed more frequently - or chips that where the most available version could be used - i.e., substitute a 74s00 or 7400 for a 74ls00, etc. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun May 2 16:12:24 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: FW: Old Computer Magazines Message-ID: <000401c4308a$2a925630$6e7ba8c0@p933> Hello all, Verne has some very early PC magazines available in Greenville, SC for pickup or for shipping at your expense. Please contact him directly at vern99t@charter.net to save these from a landfill. The usual disclaimers apply. Best regards, Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Old Computer Magazines From: "Verne" Date: Fri, April 30, 2004 2:01 pm To: webmasterNOSPAM@vintage-computer.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- I'm about to trash an old collection of PC Mag, PC World, PC Tech Journal About 4 Boxes in very good condition ranging from 1984 to 1988 Any Interest ?? The boxes weigh a ton.. Unless they have some value The shipping cost will be prohibitive Greenville, SC Verne From cfandt at netsync.net Sun May 2 21:07:00 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <4091F4C5.8000708@mcdermith.net> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Could you, Bill McD., or any other folks who've joined the list in the past several years, shed more light on the HP 9825 CPU and others around that time? Al Kossow's statement wondering whether info is extant on HP's microprocessors is right on the money for me. Bill's message, copied below, is a good bit of information that I had not known to now. Thanks! (A BPC manual was available??!!! Scan that sucker if found!!) Additionally, I understood the CPU in the HP250-series business computers from late 70's/early 80's was actually the 9825 processor but with different microprogramming. A source seems to confirm something like this, except mention is made of using a CPU similar to the 9845. Check this interesting URL which is that source I mention: http://www.hp-eloquence.com/history/history.html My system consists exactly of the "Delila" pictured lastly on the page. CPU box is that to the left of the very similar looking HP7908 16 mb drive on the right, both on wheels. Both boxes are equipped with DC600 tape drives and typical gooey tape rollers which need to be repaired :-/ Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? Secondly, can the HP250/9825(45) uP connection be verified by any other source(s)? Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical info available on the HP250 machines? I have a 250-30 upon which I've done some study back in the early 90's ? la Tony Duell (e.g., self-generated hand drawn schematics, some address decoding, bits and pieces of other tech notes scrounged from here and there). Up until a few years ago there was a severe lack of available info on the machine. I haven't focused on searching since then, mainly because of other stuff getting in the way (such as life, etc.) Also, anyone know whether the boot ROMS were devices electrically compatible with anything known commercially? I want to know so that I can possibly dump them for preservation and also learn a bit by observing human readable system messages and from whence they are called plus guessing at some machine code and hand disassembling a few areas. That's sometimes interesting and fun when discoveries come about. Right Tony? In short, is there anything substantial available out there on the HP250 machines other than the URL shown above? Google caught the URL I gave but picking through many hundreds of others yielded very little of additional substance. My machine still ran last I checked about two years ago and came with an HP7908 hard disk and HP Business BASIC operating system (with the very last version update released which was implemented by our HP CE in 1987 or '88), two HP2631 printers and two or three 2622 terminals. BTW, I have an HP7912 65 mb disk drive that I got with the system which always showed a "Servo Error" error code on the two-character LED display at the back of the machine. Anybody have a set of boards real cheep for this machine which I could swap-out and see if it can be brought up? If swapping boards doesn't work then for sure the disk unit is shot and I'll have to scrap the darned thing and pass the boards back to the original seller if need be or others. No room around here for such unusable 130+ pound boatanchors :-( Regards, Chris F. NNNN Upon the date 12:40 AM 4/30/04 -0600, Bill McDermith said something like: >Al Kossow wrote: >>I was wondering how much information is around on the >>microprocessors HP built in the late 70's/early 80's >>I found some information on the MC2 in the Osborne processor >>books from '79, and it appears an MC5 is used as the maint >>processor in the HP3000 Series 44. >>Anyone know what processor is used in the HP64000? One note >>on Usenet claimed it was an Inmos part? > >Actually, it used the BPC processor, which is the CPU part of >the mutli-chip set used in the 9825 calculator. The BPC was a >cross between the hp2100 instruction set and the 21MX instruction >set. It had byte-addressable instructions, and a return stack >with a JSB variant that would push the return address on the >stack instead of the first word of the target subroutine >(necessary if the program was in rom...) > >Initially there were some development tools on the HP3000, >but by the time I had started to work on it, there was >a Pascal compiler and assembler on the 64000 itself that >would target it, and we only used the 3000 for the parser >generator used to handle the function keys. > >Pretty sure it was manufactured somewhere in California, >the guys making calculators would be a good bet... > >Don't think I have a BPC manual around, but I'll take a look... > >Bill McDermith > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From aek at spies.com Sun May 2 22:28:10 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP)? Message-ID: <200405030328.i433SAFj030049@spies.com> Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical info available on the HP250 machines? -- check out www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/250 I should have more information on the 300 soon. AFAIK the 300 and 3000/S33 were pretty much the same hardware except for microcode. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 00:16:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> from "Christian Fandt" at May 2, 4 10:07:00 pm Message-ID: > Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. One is a metal-heatsinked hybrid. It looks a lot like the one in the 9825, but I don't even know if the pinout is the same, let alone the microcoding. The other is a set of 3 boards called the 'Sandwich' according to one of the lables on the chassis. There are 4 40 pin chips (which I will lay odds are 2901s), some microcode PROMs, and lots of smaller chips. -tony From MTPro at aol.com Mon May 3 08:45:15 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 08:55:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503095539.0085f6a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:16 AM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? > >I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully >be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it >yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One was called the LPU (Language Processing Unit) and the other called the PPU (Peripheral Processing Unit). The LPU handles the BASIC interpreter and the PPU handles all of the system I/O. Go read my HP 9845 webpage at . Interestingly HP found that the dual CPUs didn't improve perfromace very much so they dropped one of them on the 9835 and found the performace was almost as good. You can read about that on the 9835 page. For more information about the HP 9825 go look at my HP 9825 page at . See for links to all the desktops models. Joe > >One is a metal-heatsinked hybrid. It looks a lot like the one in the >9825, but I don't even know if the pinout is the same, let alone the >microcoding. The other is a set of 3 boards called the 'Sandwich' >according to one of the lables on the chassis. There are 4 40 pin chips >(which I will lay odds are 2901s), some microcode PROMs, and lots of >smaller chips. > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 09:08:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You forgot to attach her message and/or address. AFIK there were no options for the original Portable. I've had several and read the manuals and I don't remember hearing of any options. But it's been a long time and I could be wrong. I think somewhere I still have an original brochure and some manuals but don't ask me to find them. I can't find half the stuff that I thought I knew where it was. IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the factory or a third party job. Joe At 09:45 AM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David > From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Mon May 3 12:52:54 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <409686F6.5010105@yahoo.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > Could you, Bill McD., or any other folks who've joined the list in the > past several years, shed more light on the HP 9825 CPU and others > around that time? Al Kossow's statement wondering whether info is > extant on HP's microprocessors is right on the money for me. Bill's > message, copied below, is a good bit of information that I had not > known to now. Thanks! (A BPC manual was available??!!! Scan that > sucker if found!!) > > ...snip...snip...snip > Regards, Chris F. > Two quick hits looking on google for "HP BPC Processor" -- clears up at least a couple of the questions relation to where this processor was originally used... http://www.cpu-museum.com/5061_e.htm -- this link specifically mentions this as the processor for the 9825/9835/9845 processors -- see also Joe R's reply to your message... http://www.hpmuseum.org/tech9825.htm A different HP 250 hit: http://www.ylem.co.uk/hp250.asp The eloquence page mentions specifically the HP250 as a follow-on to the HP 9845, so I would suspect the same processor set -- but so many things were re-invented over and over again at HP it's always hard to say for sure... Regarding the 64000: As I probe my memory, it seems to me that I remember that the BPC chips we used in the 64000 were specially constructed for us and left the BCD arithmetic chip off the hybrid, so there were only the BPC chip and the IOP present in the hybrid package... Just a vague memory... Bill From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 12:45:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503095539.0085f6a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 3, 4 09:55:39 am Message-ID: > > At 06:16 AM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: > >> Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? > > > >I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully > >be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it > >yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. > > > There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One I think I may well have that. On the left of my machine is a board with one of the HP hybrids on it. I assume it's a proccessor -- it looks very like the thing in my 9825 and 9831. On the right there's a set of 3 boards, only one of which goes into the main backplane. There's a little backplane on top that interconnects these 3 boards. One of them contains 4 2901 chips (4 bit bit-slice ALUs). Anohter contains what look to be microcode PROMs. I assume the former is the PPU, the latter the LPU. I would certainly describe my LPU as a bit-slice board -- do you know if the standard LPU was an HP hybrid chip, a board of bit-slice chips or what? I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces (!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. > For more information about the HP 9825 go look at my HP 9825 page at > . See I know the 9825 hardware fairly well... -tony From Innfogra at aol.com Mon May 3 13:48:22 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <80.ae59c23.2dc7edf6@aol.com> I have pulled several Intel Aboveboards out of Compaq Portable 1s & IIs. They work well for memory expansion on the ISA 8 and 16 bit busses. Paxton Astoria From medavidson at mac.com Mon May 3 13:54:37 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:16 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <53486B73-9D33-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an 11/785 on EBay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 and the opening bid is only $500. If I could figure out how to get it out to CA, I'd bid on it! On Apr 29, 2004, at 1:35 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> Think roughly the equivalent of 2-3 19" racks, and that's just for >> the single enclosure holding the CPU. You'll need at least a 19" >> rack for the disk drives. > > A single VAX 6000 cab is (from memory) a bit wider than a 19" rack, > but not by more than maybe a hand each side. There was an official > cab kit that let you run a set of RA7x drives (maybe in an SA7x > enclosure) in the bottom of the VAX 6000 cab. There may > even have been an official way to run a brace of RA9x drives > in there too. So it would be possible to run a VAX 6000 in > a single cab. > > These days, assuming you are not going to be asking for > official support :-), you could try cramming an HSJ and > a string of SCSI drives in the bottom and stick a DSSI > card in the 6000 ... > > Antonio > > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org >> > From tponsford at theriver.com Mon May 3 14:05:23 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (tom) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Big Vme Boxes. Message-ID: <20040503120523.38aa80b3.tponsford@theriver.com> these will probably go relal cheap as in > $5.00. The one on the left is a sun 390 upgradable to 690 SMP. The tall boy ob the lest is a sun 3/280. The later one may go for more just because the 7' rack is in nice condition. http:w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/pics/0504024.JPG From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 3 14:10:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK References: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> <53486B73-9D33-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: <002f01c43142$5d9ba320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I would definitely like SOME of the gear listed in that auction, but there's no way I can swing a 40' truck to move all of it, or more importantly I don't have ROOM for that much gear! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Davidson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" ; Cc: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted inKansas City) > Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an 11/785 on EBay... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 > and the opening bid is only $500. If I could figure out how to get it > out to CA, I'd bid on it! > > On Apr 29, 2004, at 1:35 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > >> Think roughly the equivalent of 2-3 19" racks, and that's just for > >> the single enclosure holding the CPU. You'll need at least a 19" > >> rack for the disk drives. > > > > A single VAX 6000 cab is (from memory) a bit wider than a 19" rack, > > but not by more than maybe a hand each side. There was an official > > cab kit that let you run a set of RA7x drives (maybe in an SA7x > > enclosure) in the bottom of the VAX 6000 cab. There may > > even have been an official way to run a brace of RA9x drives > > in there too. So it would be possible to run a VAX 6000 in > > a single cab. > > > > These days, assuming you are not going to be asking for > > official support :-), you could try cramming an HSJ and > > a string of SCSI drives in the bottom and stick a DSSI > > card in the 6000 ... > > > > Antonio > > > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > >> > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From arcarlini at iee.org Mon May 3 14:18:56 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <53486B73-9D33-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: <003801c43143$7bcb08d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an 11/785 on EBay... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA > %3AIT&rd=1 > and the opening bid is only $500. If I could figure out > how to get it > out to CA, I'd bid on it! Not just a 785 but a VAX 8530, a VAX 8700 too. Two VAX 8250s to boot (pun possibly intended :-)). Plus much other stuff including spare parts and distribution tapes. Surely CA is no problem: I assume you'd have to hire a driver to go with the 40' truck anyway - how expensive can it be from Oklahom to California :-) I like the "Preference to go to a good home - otherwise theres over $2,000 scrap gold in these machines" and I'm impressed by the "Can be shown fully working". Clearly a golden opportunity for someone. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Mon May 3 14:20:07 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK In-Reply-To: <002f01c43142$5d9ba320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <003901c43143$a5d6bca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I would definitely like SOME of the gear listed in that > auction, but there's no way I can swing a 40' truck to move > all of it, or more importantly I don't have ROOM for that much gear! Of course, you meant "roomS" unless you live in the kind of house we'd all *like* to live in! -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon May 3 14:45:10 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <003801c43143$7bcb08d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040503194510.89167.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Seems he will be happy with $500 for all of them. Why should they make computers that are so heavy? I am sure the boards are light. I remembered that I once assembled a TU81, and there were two weights -- yes, weights -- in it that each was about 50LB. vax, 3900 --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Someone's listed an entire VAX cluster with an > 11/785 on EBay... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > > ViewItem&item=4128752485&category=1247&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA > > %3AIT&rd=1 > > and the opening bid is only $500. If I could > figure out > > how to get it > > out to CA, I'd bid on it! > > Not just a 785 but a VAX 8530, a VAX 8700 too. Two > VAX 8250s > to boot (pun possibly intended :-)). Plus much other > stuff > including spare parts and distribution tapes. > > Surely CA is no problem: I assume you'd have to hire > a driver > to go with the 40' truck anyway - how expensive can > it be > from Oklahom to California :-) > > I like the "Preference to go to a good home - > otherwise theres over $2,000 scrap gold in these > machines" > and I'm impressed by the "Can be shown fully > working". > > Clearly a golden opportunity for someone. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 15:05:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004 MTPro@AOL.com wrote: > If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David That depends on what the question is. (NOT included) To get up to 640K: use a regular ISA card with memory. To get LIM/EMS: use an ISA LIM/EMS card. To meet RAM requirements for Windoze 3.10 or above: remove the entire contents of the case, and start with a different MB, and consider a different case. 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 15:09:08 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040503130518.E13001@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. (The II was also 286) > hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the > factory or a third party job. factory but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could take ordinary 506/MFM drives. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 3 15:10:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) References: <20040503194510.89167.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004601c4314a$b3a51d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Why > should they make computers that are so heavy? Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 3-phase! J --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 15:18:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spotted In-Reply-To: <20040503194510.89167.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> from "SHAUN RIPLEY" at May 3, 4 12:45:10 pm Message-ID: > > Seems he will be happy with $500 for all of them. Why > should they make computers that are so heavy? I am > sure the boards are light. I remembered that I once When I moved my I2S Model 70 Image Processor/Display systems, I found that pulling the 30-odd boards from each card cage made the latter much easier to lift, and that, indeed, I couldn't lift all the boards at once (a total of 5 cardcages full -- a Model 70/E with 2 RAM cages, a Model 70/F4 and a Model 75) Those are somewhat interesting machines that I really must get round to restoring some day. The oldest one, the Model 70/E uses 4K DRAMs for the video memory, and there are somewhere over 3000 of them in the machine (!), and about the same number of TTL chips. The later machines use 16K and 64K DRAMs, which is how they get the entire machine into one cardcage. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 15:19:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <409686F6.5010105@yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503161923.0091e8b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:52 AM 5/3/04 -0600, you wrote: >Christian Fandt wrote: > >> Could you, Bill McD., or any other folks who've joined the list in the >> past several years, shed more light on the HP 9825 CPU and others >> around that time? Al Kossow's statement wondering whether info is >> extant on HP's microprocessors is right on the money for me. Bill's >> message, copied below, is a good bit of information that I had not >> known to now. Thanks! (A BPC manual was available??!!! Scan that >> sucker if found!!) >> >> ...snip...snip...snip >> Regards, Chris F. >> >Two quick hits looking on google for "HP BPC Processor" -- clears up at >least a couple of the >questions relation to where this processor was originally used... > >http://www.cpu-museum.com/5061_e.htm > -- this link specifically mentions this as the processor for > the 9825/9835/9845 processors -- see also Joe R's > reply to your message... > >http://www.hpmuseum.org/tech9825.htm > >A different HP 250 hit: > >http://www.ylem.co.uk/hp250.asp > >The eloquence page mentions specifically the HP250 as a follow-on to >the HP 9845, I don't know anything about the 250 but the HP 9000/520 was the designated replacement for the 9845. Apparently the 520 had problems was very late being released and was not a success. Now they're pretty rare. I have one but never did anything with it and don't know much about it. IIRC Frank McConnall also has one and knows a lot more about it. I'm not sure what kind of processor was in the 520 but I don't think it was a standard CPU like the 680x0 that was used in the 9000/200 and 300s. so I would suspect the same processor set -- but so many >things were re-invented over and over again at HP it's always hard to >say for >sure... > >Regarding the 64000: > >As I probe my memory, it seems to me that I remember that the BPC >chips we used in the 64000 were specially constructed for us and left >the BCD arithmetic chip off the hybrid, so there were only the BPC >chip and the IOP present in the hybrid package... That rings a bell with me too. I think I remember reading that in one of the HP Journals that had an article about the 64000. Joe > >Just a vague memory... > >Bill > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 15:23:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040503095539.0085f6a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503162348.008378b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:45 PM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> At 06:16 AM 5/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Firstly, are the 9825 and 9845 processors the same part? >> > >> >I have a 9845 which is on the 'to be investigated' list. I will hopefully >> >be pulling it to bits (non-destructively) soon. I've not done much on it >> >yet, but from what I remember there are 2 processors in there. >> >> >> There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One > >I think I may well have that. That would be cool! I have four or five 9845s but I don't think any of mine have that option. > >On the left of my machine is a board with one of the HP hybrids on it. I >assume it's a proccessor -- it looks very like the thing in my 9825 and >9831. > >On the right there's a set of 3 boards, only one of which goes into the >main backplane. There's a little backplane on top that interconnects >these 3 boards. One of them contains 4 2901 chips (4 bit bit-slice ALUs). >Anohter contains what look to be microcode PROMs. > >I assume the former is the PPU, the latter the LPU. I would certainly >describe my LPU as a bit-slice board -- do you know if the standard LPU >was an HP hybrid chip, a board of bit-slice chips or what? I believe it was a hybrid. > >I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came >with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces >(!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather >hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. hard to find? Sheesh I find them all over. nearly every 9825 that I find comes with one. I just passed one up in a scrap yard a couple of weeks ago. Also passed up a couple of the RTC modules. The RTC modules with the IO cable are cool. You can interface them to external devices and trigger the devices or use the device to trigger events in the 9845. Joe > >> For more information about the HP 9825 go look at my HP 9825 page at >> . See > >I know the 9825 hardware fairly well... > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 15:28:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 Government Edition? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503162822.00863e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up another load of early PC software last week. Everything was in nearly new condition :-) :-) One of the things that I got was a package of Lotus 123 version 2.01. It's marked as a Government Edition and has an eagle of the disk labels. Anybody know what this is all about? The manuals seem to be standard and don't say anything about it having different features. However I'm thinking that it might be a non-copyprotected version. Joe From medavidson at mac.com Mon May 3 15:28:56 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK In-Reply-To: <003901c43143$a5d6bca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003901c43143$a5d6bca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <801EDAB7-9D40-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Yeah, I got a quote from the guy selling it... $3500 to pack it and truck it to where I am (San Jose, CA). Unfortunately, that's a bit more than I can afford right now. :) On May 3, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >> I would definitely like SOME of the gear listed in that >> auction, but there's no way I can swing a 40' truck to move >> all of it, or more importantly I don't have ROOM for that much gear! > > Of course, you meant "roomS" unless you live in > the kind of house we'd all *like* to live in! > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From aek at spies.com Mon May 3 16:05:25 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes Message-ID: <200405032105.i43L5P4L003358@spies.com> I have been recovering HP64000 files from floppies written by a 64000 that no longer boots. === A scan of the 64000 floppy ref man that describes the LIF implemenation can now be found at www.bitsavers.org/hp/64000/64941-90906_flpRef_Jan84.pdf From aw288 at osfn.org Mon May 3 16:09:16 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: (cheap) Apple grayscale tube Message-ID: I have a small Apple grayscale tube (about 12"), probably from the Apple IIc or IIgs days. Basically, baseband video. in fact, I was using it as a video monitor until recently. Pretty good shape. Anyone want this for $5.00? Shipping is from 10512. The junkyard calls... Reply off list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 16:29:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a picture of it at . Sorry but I haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember seeing a model number on the 2nd one. Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 3 16:41:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a Joe> picture of it at Joe> . Sorry but I Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and some were another OS...) paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 3 16:47:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <008e01c43158$2fb83160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Some discussion of this already occured on the list, I think Joe was involved? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-March/019817.html J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something > >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front > Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are > Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around > Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a > Joe> picture of it at > Joe> . Sorry but I > Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The > Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember > Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. > > CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme > was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business > computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and > some were another OS...) > > paul > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From aek at spies.com Mon May 3 16:56:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: err in url Message-ID: <200405032156.i43LuZZO017056@spies.com> forgot the 'pdf' www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/64000/64941-90906_flpRef_Jan84.pdf From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon May 3 16:51:54 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) Message-ID: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >> Why >> should they make computers that are so heavy? > >Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 >3-phase! > >J Most 3 phase is 208, not 220. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 17:11:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503130518.E13001@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think you're mixed up. I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and 640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. FWIW I think the Portable 286 was probably the same size as the P-II. It wasn't much smaller than the original Portable but I distinctly remember Compaq saying that it was 40% smaller. Probably about 10% smaller in each direction so ~40% smaller volume. Joe At 01:09 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > >> The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a >Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was >ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. >(The II was also 286) > >> hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the >> factory or a third party job. >factory >but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive >numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could >take ordinary 506/MFM drives. > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 17:43:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: "rare"????? models of Compaq (was: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040503152138.Q19501@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I think you're mixed up. ABSOLUTELY! no argument there! > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable > II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) How much would you pay for a "Portable II" that came stock with a 286 motherboard? I think that there were both a "Portable II" AND a "Portable II/286", but the 286 "II" that I have says "Portable II". > then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and > 640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't > remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had > a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. > FWIW I think the Portable 286 was probably the same size as the P-II. It > wasn't much smaller than the original Portable but I distinctly remember > Compaq saying that it was 40% smaller. Probably about 10% smaller in each > direction so ~40% smaller volume. How much would you pay for a "Portable 286" that IS EXACTLY the size and shape as the original portable, with MOST case/body parts interchangeable with the original portable? The original portables that I had (sold off at VCF a few years ago), and the "Portable 286" that I still have are EXACTLY the same size and shape, and are difficult to tell apart (minor differences, such as horizontal v vertical drives). The "Portable II" that I still have is significantly, noticeably, and obviously smaller. Is it unreasonable for me to assume that the 286 with a case like the original was an earlier model than the 286 with a smaller more modern case? I do not have any of the Portable IIIs (lunchbox) One of my Compaq's is "upgraded" to the Compaq EGA card Another has the ATI EGA Wonder, with "special Compaq adapter" The Portable 286 has sheet metal "damage" (I mounted a 3.5" drive above the expansion cards) If still around by then, I'll sell them at VCF. (along with the usual pile of boxes of crap) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > At 01:09 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: > >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > > > >> The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a > >Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was > >ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. > >(The II was also 286) > > > >> hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the > >> factory or a third party job. > >factory > >but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive > >numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could > >take ordinary 506/MFM drives. > > > > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 3 18:00:06 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> I've got a set of DEC diagnostic floppies (RX50) and I don't have the decoding scheme at hand to figure out the part number and therefore their usage. I don't know which machine these run on -- Micro PDP-11 or MicroVAX. I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with a heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same time I got said uVAX II. Given the part numbers listed below could anyone tell me about them (other than the obvious ;-) )? BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 Thanks for your help. (BTW, should these be added to an archive or two (bitsavers for instance)?) -Chris F. NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 17:58:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503185856.008b56f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:41 PM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front > Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are > Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around > Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a > Joe> picture of it at > Joe> . Sorry but I > Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The > Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember > Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. > >CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme >was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business >computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and >some were another OS...) > > paul This was part of some kind of test staion. The computer part of it consisted of four 6+ foot tall 19" racks that were bolted together. I wanted to get more the cables and such out of it but they dumped it on it's back and there was no way to stand it back up again! It had a couple of RL-01 or 02 drives in it along with a PT reader/punch (that was smashed :-( Also a reel to reel tape drive and some other DEC parts. The rest were Data Couplers and interfaces. The test equipment itself was in other racks and I never saw it. Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 17:59:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <008e01c43158$2fb83160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16534.48248.145241.945118@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503185958.0092f230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yes, you're right. But I promised to post some pictures and I'm just getting around to it. Joe At 04:47 PM 5/3/04 -0500, Jay wrote: >Some discussion of this already occured on the list, I think Joe was >involved? >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-March/019817.html > >J > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Koning" >To: >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:41 PM >Subject: Re: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something > > >> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: >> >> Joe> A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front >> Joe> panel. Then I found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are >> Joe> painted in two tone blue Tekronix colors. I finally got around >> Joe> to photograghing one of the front panels today. I'm posting a >> Joe> picture of it at >> Joe> . Sorry but I >> Joe> haven't cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The >> Joe> first one was marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember >> Joe> seeing a model number on the 2nd one. >> >> CP1160 doesn't mean a thing to me, but the two tone blue color scheme >> was common in a standard series of DEC PDP11s. Perhaps the business >> computer packages? (Forgot the name -- some of those were RSTS and >> some were another OS...) >> >> paul >> >> > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 3 18:09:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: "rare"????? models of Compaq (was: Fwd: compaq's portablecomputer In-Reply-To: <20040503152138.Q19501@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040503190900.008a4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:43 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> I think you're mixed up. >ABSOLUTELY! no argument there! > > >> I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >> II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) >How much would you pay for a "Portable II" that came stock with a 286 >motherboard? The same as I paid for all the other Compaqs that I have. $0.00 >I think that there were both a "Portable II" AND a "Portable II/286", but >the 286 "II" that I have says "Portable II". I don't remember a Portable II/286. It sounds like Compaq had to P-II cases left over and decided to stick 286s in them. Similar to IBM with their XT/286. > >> then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >> 640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >> remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >> a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. >> FWIW I think the Portable 286 was probably the same size as the P-II. It >> wasn't much smaller than the original Portable but I distinctly remember >> Compaq saying that it was 40% smaller. Probably about 10% smaller in each >> direction so ~40% smaller volume. > >How much would you pay for a "Portable 286" that IS EXACTLY the size and >shape as the original portable, with MOST case/body parts interchangeable >with the original portable? > >The original portables that I had (sold off at VCF a few years ago), >and the "Portable 286" that I still have are EXACTLY the same size and >shape, and are difficult to tell apart (minor differences, such as >horizontal v vertical drives). FWIW one of the more useful features of the Portable 286s is that the keyboard will work with the 286 and up clone boards. Why does that matter you ask? Because then you can take a Portable case and stuff a late model clone MB and video card in and and make a useful computer out of it and still keep the detachable keyboard. >The "Portable II" that I still have is significantly, noticeably, and >obviously smaller. > >Is it unreasonable for me to assume that the 286 with a case like the >original was an earlier model than the 286 with a smaller more modern >case? No. but I don't remember a full sized 286 portable. I suspect Compaq had some full size chassis left over and decided to use them up. > > >I do not have any of the Portable IIIs (lunchbox) > >One of my Compaq's is "upgraded" to the Compaq EGA card >Another has the ATI EGA Wonder, with "special Compaq adapter" > >The Portable 286 has sheet metal "damage" (I mounted a 3.5" drive above >the expansion cards) > >If still around by then, I'll sell them at VCF. (along with the usual >pile of boxes of crap) > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > >> At 01:09 PM 5/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >> IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. >> > >> >> The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a >> >Between the original and the II, there was a "Portable 286", which was >> >ALMOST the same as the original, but with a 80286 motherboard, etc. >> >(The II was also 286) >> > >> >> hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the >> >> factory or a third party job. >> >factory >> >but third party was fine - other than having a very limited list of "drive >> >numbers", which didn't exactly match the IBM AT list, the hard drive could >> >take ordinary 506/MFM drives. >> > >> >> > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 3 18:23:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front panel. Then I > found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are painted in two tone blue > Tekronix colors. I finally got around to photograghing one of the front > panels today. I'm posting a picture of it at > . Sorry but I haven't > cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The first one was > marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember seeing a model number on the > 2nd one. Well, some of the 11/34's I am currently working on for some of you guys are Tek-labelled. Since these are labelled CP1134, I will just assume that Tek took 11/60's, and rebadged them into CP1160 in your case? --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 3 18:34:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> from "Christian Fandt" at May 03, 2004 07:00:06 PM Message-ID: <200405032334.i43NYBj5029862@onyx.spiritone.com> > I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with a > heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same time I > got said uVAX II. I'm going to guess they go with a PDP-11/73, as an MV II would have the diagnostics on TK50. Plus the info sounds sort of PDP-11ish. In answer to the other question, yes, you should make disk images of the floppies. Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 18:38:57 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: FS: "rare"????? models of Compaq (was: Fwd: compaq's portablecomputer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503190900.008a4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503181100.00823e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040503190900.008a4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040503162750.U19501@newshell.lmi.net> > >How much would you pay for a "Portable II" that came stock with a 286 > >motherboard? On Mon, 3 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > The same as I paid for all the other Compaqs that I have. $0.00 Congratulations, you are currently the high bidder! I'll continue accepting bids through VCF > >I think that there were both a "Portable II" AND a "Portable II/286", but > >the 286 "II" that I have says "Portable II". > I don't remember a Portable II/286. It sounds like Compaq had to P-II > cases left over and decided to stick 286s in them. Similar to IBM with > their XT/286. makes sense > FWIW one of the more useful features of the Portable 286s is that the > keyboard will work with the 286 and up clone boards. Why does that matter > you ask? Because then you can take a Portable case and stuff a late model > clone MB and video card in and and make a useful computer out of it and > still keep the detachable keyboard. The "Portable 286" that I have has an "AT compatible" keyboard that fits the original style case. Complete with inadequate latches. The "Portable II" that I have is somewhat smaller, but also AT compatible. The biggest limitation to "upgrading" them is that the internal monochrome monitor can handle EGA, but NOT VGA. > No. but I don't remember a full sized 286 portable. I suspect Compaq had > some full size chassis left over and decided to use them up. I don't think that it was their most popular model. But I still think that it came BEFORE, or overlapped when they changed the case. Here's your big chance to complete a collection! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From stuart at zen.co.uk Sun May 2 15:46:18 2004 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stuart Birchall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface Message-ID: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> Hi everyone, Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for the 64? Cheers Stu From michael at mfp.co.nz Sun May 2 17:33:30 2004 From: michael at mfp.co.nz (Michael Fincham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: WANG.... thingymabob? Message-ID: <3812.202.49.92.103.1083537210.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> Hi everyone I'm looking for some kind soul to identify this machine for me http://www.applefritter.com/node/view/1711 I see someone has replied on Applefritter and is talking about it being some kind of giant transciever, but any extra details would be appreciated. -Michael Fincham www.mfp.co.nz From emailkevin.potter at virgin.net Sun May 2 18:35:21 2004 From: emailkevin.potter at virgin.net (Kevin Potter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Omnibot 2000 Message-ID: <002401c4309e$22db9b40$f5d96751@fsnet.co.uk> Hi Do you know what my Omnibot 2000 is worth? It has tray and remote control. thanks Kevin From zdrawko at operamail.com Mon May 3 09:30:33 2004 From: zdrawko at operamail.com (Zdrawko Iwanow Stefanow ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: To Rich Beaudry - 8 inch floppies Message-ID: <20040503143033.DBC7323ABC@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Dear Rich, do you still have the Shugart 851 one? Or at least the user manual for it? Thanks, Zdravko Stefanov -- _____________________________________________________________ Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com. >From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones. Powered by Outblaze From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Mon May 3 13:09:28 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (BPC Processor) In-Reply-To: <4092C4F0.7040006@mcdermith.net> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <001301c42ebf$36b77340$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <002201c42ebf$af66d600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4092C4F0.7040006@mcdermith.net> Message-ID: <40968AD8.5090001@mcdermith.net> One other peculiarity I do remember about the BPC instruction set was that as it had byte addressing, the byte select was the _most_ significant bit of a 16-bit address, so that the indirect addresses were only one level -- that is, you could do indirect addressing through one target word -- this is in contrast to the 2100 instructions where the most significant bit was used as an indirection bit indicating a chain of indirect addresses... Bill Bill McDermith wrote: > Jay West wrote: > >> A combination of 2100 and 21MX instruction sets? Umm... the 21MX is >> just a >> superset of 2100? > > > Correct, but if my memory isn't completely gone, it had some > of the 21mx instructions, some of the additional registers, like > the amusing but less useful index registers, but not all of the > 21MX instructions, and some of the ones that were included weren't > implemented in the same way (or with the same bit pattern? Can't > remember...) -- It seems to me that you couldn't just use a > 21MX compiler to target a BPC, for example. > > It's just hard to remember, programmed it every day for a year > in 1980, then moved on to the displays division in Colorado > Springs, and never messed with it again... > > Bill McDermith From karen_reid at DRSOptronics.com Mon May 3 13:16:12 2004 From: karen_reid at DRSOptronics.com (Reid, Karen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: <53CB7766CBAB9148BCB56ABC56F408CF5FEF37@california.drso.biz> Glen, I found this link http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002328.html while searching for this manual. Do you still have a copy of it? And would you be willing to share? I have an HP 7946 tape drive I need to access and the manual is nowhere to be found. Karen Reid Sr. Test Engineer DRS Optronics, Inc. 100 N. Babcock St. Melbourne, FL 32935 321.309.1865 From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon May 3 19:00:01 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on my site if anyone wants to see one. If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a CMOS Checksum error. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 3 20:20:24 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040503181720.X25653@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to > get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure > the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" > checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a > CMOS Checksum error. http://www.compaq.com/support/files/obsolete_diagnostics.html I THINK that it includes what you need, along with some other junk. From paulpenn at knology.net Mon May 3 20:15:07 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer References: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <015b01c43175$d8cc0340$6401a8c0@knology.net> Compaq released a replacement address decoder chip that would allow replacing two rows of 64K chips with 256K chips to go to 640K. They're unobtanium now, of course, so you have to waste a slot on a memory card. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: compaq's portable computer > You forgot to attach her message and/or address. > > AFIK there were no options for the original Portable. I've had several > and read the manuals and I don't remember hearing of any options. But it's > been a long time and I could be wrong. I think somewhere I still have an > original brochure and some manuals but don't ask me to find them. I can't > find half the stuff that I thought I knew where it was. > > IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. > The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a > hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the > factory or a third party job. > > Joe > > > At 09:45 AM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: > >If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options > for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as > well as to the list. Thanks, David > > > From chd_1 at nktelco.net Mon May 3 21:27:57 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4096FFAD.6050509@nktelco.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: "Jay West" >> >> >> >>>Why >>>should they make computers that are so heavy? >>> >>> >>Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 >>3-phase! >> >>J >> >> > >Most 3 phase is 208, not 220. >Dwight > > > > or 240/60 or 380/50 or 400/50 or 480/60 or 575/60... Lots of ways to deliver the volts... -chuck From chd_1 at nktelco.net Mon May 3 22:06:49 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200405032151.OAA23171@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: "Jay West" >> >> >> >>>Why >>>should they make computers that are so heavy? >>> >>> >>Or the corrolary to that... why should they make computers that require 220 >>3-phase! >> >>J >> >> > >Most 3 phase is 208, not 220. >Dwight > > > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star configuration. That is, measured phase to phase you get 240 volts, but phase to neutral you get 208. Typically you don't want any neutral current, so it is balanced around the phases in a delta configuration. I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but I would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the neutral at all, just 3 phases and a ground. -chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 22:09:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503162348.008378b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 3, 4 04:23:48 pm Message-ID: > >> There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One > > > >I think I may well have that. > > That would be cool! I have four or five 9845s but I don't think any of > mine have that option. What do you have in the far right slot? Is it a single PCB with an HP metal-heatsinked hybrid on it, a set of 3 boards, or what? Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial to dismantle. To take off the top cover you have to remove the 2 little metal latch brackets for the montior first. And you have to remove the keyboard/tape drive assembly to get the cards out, they just don't clear the back edge of it when the keyboard is screwed down. Oh well... > >I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came > >with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces > >(!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather > >hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. > > hard to find? Sheesh I find them all over. nearly every 9825 that I find They're not at all common in the UK... > comes with one. I just passed one up in a scrap yard a couple of weeks ago. > Also passed up a couple of the RTC modules. The RTC modules with the IO > cable are cool. You can interface them to external devices and trigger the All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, it's just a cable you have to add. > devices or use the device to trigger events in the 9845. YEs.. That clock is one strange design. When the machine is powered up, the clock is done in software on the HP microcontroller inside. But there's also a digital watch chip (!) which is battery backed and used to keep the time when the machine is powered down. The interface to the watch chip is what you might expect. a couple of 'buttons' for things like selecting the time/date, setting the clock, etc, digit strobes (outputs from the watch chip) and the 7-segment outputs (one of which isn't used, since the microcontroller can identify the digit without it). I think there's also an annunciator output, which means there are only 3 digit strobes (the most significant digit is either blank or 1, both for time and US-style date, so you just need a single line for it, rather than a complete digit.) You can actually attach a 7 segment display to traces on the board and get it to display the time when the clock module is starting up. Incidentally, the clock testpoint mentioned in the manual is one of the digit strobes. That's why it's a division of 3 from a power-of-2 frequency. And that's what 'gave it away' when I was sorting out just what was going on on that board. The clocks are fairly common, ones that have not been damaged by battery electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. Have you seen a metal-cased I/O module for these machines? One of my HPIB interfaces is in a die-cast case, not a plastic one. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 22:14:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at May 3, 4 11:06:49 pm Message-ID: > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V phase-phase. In the UK we get 415V 3-phase, which is 240V (our normal mains voltage) between each phase and neutral, and 415V between any pair of phases. > I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but I > would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the neutral at > all, just 3 phases and a ground. Not at all. A very few PSUs are genuinely 3-phase, and some large disk drives have 3 phase motors. But in the case of DEC machines at least, the individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase and neutral (star connected). Of ocurse the load is approximately balanced between the 3 phases (or it is if the machine is configured properly). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 22:17:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (BPC Processor) In-Reply-To: <40968AD8.5090001@mcdermith.net> from "Bill McDermith" at May 3, 4 12:09:28 pm Message-ID: > > One other peculiarity I do remember about the BPC instruction set was that > as it had byte addressing, the byte select was the _most_ significant > bit of a > 16-bit address, so that the indirect addresses were only one level -- that > is, you could do indirect addressing through one target word -- this is in > contrast to the 2100 instructions where the most significant bit was used as > an indirection bit indicating a chain of indirect addresses... The 98x0 proxesor also does that -- you can indirect as many times as you like (and, indeed, tie the processor in a tight-ish microcode loop if you get an indirect address that tries to indirect through itself). AFAIK the 98x0 porcessor has a different instruction set to the 2100 series, but it's similar in concept. -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon May 3 22:57:21 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2004 MTPro@AOL.com wrote: > > If anyone could help this woman out with the question of memory options for an original Compaq Portable, please do respond directly back to her, as well as to the list. Thanks, David > > That depends on what the question is. (NOT included) > To get up to 640K: use a regular ISA card with memory. > To get LIM/EMS: use an ISA LIM/EMS card. > To meet RAM requirements for Windoze 3.10 or above: remove the entire > contents of the case, and start with a different MB, and consider a > different case. > > 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But > recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: With a 'hercules clone' monocrhome card, with a Paradise MGA card (cga emulation on a 9-pin mono monitor) and with a 64K IBM EGA card in Monochrome mode (best overall video resolution for Windows of above three configurations). Back then I don't remember _ever_ having a video monitor that actually had a case. I used cast-off monochrome monitors from dumb terminals that I wired 9 pin connectors onto, after figuring out which lines provided the seperate H/V sync. There was a very-slow-green-phosphor tube that I remember being my favorite for a long time. My chosen hardware to run Windows on back then wasn't the norm, nor was I being a good Wintel "wave-plastic-frantically-at-the-store" customer in doing so, but it worked for a long time. For fairly loose defintions of 'worked' of course. You're likely correct about driver support for the Compaq Portable display. I sold a Portable III recently with a fresh install of Windows 1.03 on it, which suited that hardware fairly well. From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon May 3 23:01:19 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:17 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 03 May 2004 22:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star > > Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V > phase-phase. Tony is right here. At least in Indiana, Illinois, and the Code Book, 208 three-phase is a "Y" setup with 120V from each phase to neutral, and 208V from phase to phase. 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on the third one. It's important to realize when wiring a system like this that the third phase is NOT 120V to neutral like the other two, I've heard of some people (idiots) ignoring that, and having issues when they tried to turn on their 120V lamps they just wired. : ) > > I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but > > I would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the > > neutral at all, just 3 phases and a ground. > > Not at all. A very few PSUs are genuinely 3-phase, and some large > disk drives have 3 phase motors. But in the case of DEC machines at > least, the individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase > and neutral (star connected). Of ocurse the load is approximately > balanced between the 3 phases (or it is if the machine is configured > properly). Agreed. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon May 3 23:09:58 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:01 -0500 (CDT) Dave Dunfield wrote: > > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable > >II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and > >640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't > >remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had > >a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. > > FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on > my site if anyone wants to see one. > > If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to > get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure > the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" > checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a > CMOS Checksum error. > I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. From donm at cts.com Mon May 3 23:14:04 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Monday 03 May 2004 22:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star > > > > Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V > > phase-phase. > > Tony is right here. At least in Indiana, Illinois, and the Code Book, > 208 three-phase is a "Y" setup with 120V from each phase to neutral, > and 208V from phase to phase. 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with > the neutral half-tapped between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, Wait a minute! By definition, a delta configuration can have no neutral. Else it is no longer delta. - don > 120V phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral > on the third one. It's important to realize when wiring a system like > this that the third phase is NOT 120V to neutral like the other two, > I've heard of some people (idiots) ignoring that, and having issues > when they tried to turn on their 120V lamps they just wired. : ) > > > > I have not looked at any 3 phase power supplies for computers, but > > > I would bet they are 240 volt 4 wire and don't bother with the > > > neutral at all, just 3 phases and a ground. > > > > Not at all. A very few PSUs are genuinely 3-phase, and some large > > disk drives have 3 phase motors. But in the case of DEC machines at > > least, the individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase > > and neutral (star connected). Of ocurse the load is approximately > > balanced between the 3 phases (or it is if the machine is configured > > properly). > > Agreed. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon May 3 23:57:17 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface In-Reply-To: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> References: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Hi everyone, > Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for > the 64? > Cheers > Stu > Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some 1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. Gary Hildebrand From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 00:05:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> <20040503125925.J13001@newshell.lmi.net> <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040503220216.N30850@newshell.lmi.net> > > 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But > > recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: You were probably running 3.0! 3.1 requires extended memory (286) 3.0 was the last one that could be run on 8088. 3.0 would work fine with CGA. 3.1 would work with CGA, but not right. From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 00:22:56 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405040022.56594.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 03 May 2004 23:14, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Monday 03 May 2004 22:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > 208 is really a 240 volt 3 phase system measured in a star > > > > > > Is it? I'd assumed it was 120V neutral-phase, which is then 208V > > > phase-phase. > > > > Tony is right here. At least in Indiana, Illinois, and the Code > > Book, 208 three-phase is a "Y" setup with 120V from each phase to > > neutral, and 208V from phase to phase. 240V three-phase is a delta > > setup, with the neutral half-tapped between two phases, giving 240V > > phase-to-phase, > > Wait a minute! By definition, a delta configuration can have no > neutral. Else it is no longer delta. > > - don When a neutral is put on a delta, it's wired like: A / \ / \ B--N--C At least, that's what I've learned from reading NEC code books. By contrast, a wye aka Y/star is wired like: A B \ / \ / N | | C I guess you could also call that a "flux capacitor" arrangement. :) You can also put the ground one of the three delta phases, and end up with this: A / \ / \ B/N----C I've only heard of that arrangement before, I haven't actually seen it. In general, though, it seems intuitive to me that you'd want to connect some part of the secondary to ground, and avoid a floating secondary, as you might run into "problems" if your 12kV(ish) primary becomes coupled to the secondary, and there isn't a ground path to trip a circuit breaker. There's few things more dangerous than having your 208V line at 12kV+-208V (AC RMS) to ground when you're not expecting it. -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 00:19:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V phase-to-neutral > on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on the third one. That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. Certainly if you have three phases 120? apart such that there is 240VRMS between any two phases, you can center-tap between any of two them, but the tap won't be 0V to ground and thus I would maintain that calling it "neutral" is misleading, enough so that I'd call it _dangerously_ misleading. (By my calculations, it will be something like 70V to ground, but I'm not sure I have the math straight.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From GOOI at oce.nl Tue May 4 00:34:59 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102B88@gd-mail03.oce.nl> I am almost certain it is basically an 11/35, or 11/40. The /35 was the OEM version of the /40, hence they both have the same 5-card CPU set with optional cards for FIS, EIS and MMU. The MMU also required a small extra board called stack limit register. For more info on the /35 see www.pdp-11.nl - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe R. [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: maandag 3 mei 2004 23:29 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something > > > A couple of months ago I found a DEC computer with a front > panel. Then I > found a second one a few weeks ago. The panels are painted in > two tone blue > Tekronix colors. I finally got around to photograghing one of > the front > panels today. I'm posting a picture of it at > . Sorry but I haven't > cleaned it up. It's also missing two switch handles. The first one was > marked as being a 11/35FC but I don't remember seeing a model > number on the > 2nd one. > > Joe > From whdawson at localisps.net Tue May 4 01:27:33 2004 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Compaq Case Rough Designation Style Specs ------------ -------- ----- Portable IBM 5155 Style, 8088, 256K, CRT, AC Portable/Plus " , 8088, 640K with Rev C ROM, CRT EGA, AC Portable II " , 80286, CRT EGA, AC Portable III Breadbox , 80286 8/12 MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG optional). Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC Portable 286 Same as above Portable 386 Breadbox , 80386 20MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG optional). Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC SLT286 Lunchbox , 80286 8/12MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC w/adapter SLT386 Lunchbox , 80386 ?MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC w/adapter > On Mon, 3 May 2004 Scott Stevens wrote: > > I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February > was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox > configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it > and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM > and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with > different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a > 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a > Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time > before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had > didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. > > > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 02:07:51 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface In-Reply-To: <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <009a01c43086$853c77e0$1d00000a@office.zen.co.uk> <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20040504070751.GA9406@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 11:57:17PM -0500, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for > > the 64? > > Cheers > > Stu > > > Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some > 1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. Better to use a MAX232A and 4 caps - really simple. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 07:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.0 F (-66.2 C) Windchill -138.9 F (-95 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 030 Barometer 671.7 mb (10941. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 4 02:30:14 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt "DEC Diagnostic Disks" (May 3, 19:00) References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <10405040830.ZM1548@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 3, 19:00, Christian Fandt wrote: > I've got a set of DEC diagnostic floppies (RX50) and I don't have the > decoding scheme at hand to figure out the part number and therefore their > usage. I don't know which machine these run on -- Micro PDP-11 or MicroVAX. > > I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with a > heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same time I > got said uVAX II. > > Given the part numbers listed below could anyone tell me about them (other > than the obvious ;-) )? > > BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS > BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 > BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 > BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 > BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 These are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a microPDP-11/23. Here's a listing from my set: DIR DU1: (CZXD1B1 Field Service Tests 1) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? 2 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000100 ?.? 3 HMDLD1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000130 ?.? 4 HMDXC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000151 ?.? 5 HMDYC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000172 ?.? 6 HDDDC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000213 ?.? 7 HDDKB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 2 000216 ?.? 8 HDDLC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 4 000220 ?.? 9 HDMMB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000224 ?.? 10 HDMTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000227 ?.? 11 HDMSB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000232 ?.? 12 HMDQA1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000235 ?.? 13 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000257 ?.? 14 XTSAA0.OBJ 14-JAN-82 10 000263 15 HDDXB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000275 ?.? 16 HDDYB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000300 ?.? 17 HDKBB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000303 ?.? 18 HDLPA0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000304 ?.? 19 HDPDB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000305 ?.? 20 XRQAB0.OBJ 1-OCT-83 18 000310 21 HDPTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000332 ?.? 22 HELP .TXT 3-MAR-83 14 000333 23 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000351 24 DXCL .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000402 25 XMOND0.LIB 3-MAR-83 180 000433 26 XCPAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000717 27 XCPBJ0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000724 28 XKWEB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000731 29 XDZBC0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 7 000736 30 XIBAD0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 000745 31 XDRFD0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 000751 32 XDMDC0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 14 000761 33 XDPVA0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 5 000777 34 XLPAF0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001004 35 XRLAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 001010 36 XTUAB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 10 001020 37 XAACB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001032 38 XADCB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 001036 39 XBMDE0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001046 40 XCIAA0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 8 001052 41 XFPAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001062 42 XDLAJ0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 6 001066 43 XDLBB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 10 001074 44 XDMEB0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 12 001106 45 XDRAD0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 3 001122 46 XDRJA0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001125 47 XDUAI0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 7 001131 48 XKWAG0.OBJ 7-DEC-82 4 001140 49 SETUP .BIN 3-MAR-83 26 001144 50 PATCH .BIN 3-MAR-83 22 001176 51 XTECO .BIN 3-MAR-83 16 001224 52 ZRQAB0.BIC 14-JUL-83 71 001244 53 ZRQBA0.BIN 30-JUN-83 20 000256 FREE BLOCKS: 34 .DIR DU1: (CZXD2B0 Field Service Tests 2) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? 2 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000100 ?.? 3 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000104 ?.? 4 JFPAA1.BIC 14-SEP-82 50 000134 5 JFPBA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 39 000216 6 JDLAA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 19 000265 7 JKDIA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 23 000310 8 JKDBD0.BIC 3-MAR-83 52 000337 9 JKDAD1.BIC 3-MAR-83 28 000423 10 JKDCB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 52 000457 11 JKDDB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 32 000543 12 VM8AF0.BIN 31-MAR-83 15 000603 13 VMSAA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 24 000622 14 VMEMA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000652 15 JKL5A2.BIC 29-JUL-83 94 000672 16 JKDHA0.BIC 3-MAR-83 54 001030 17 VKWAC0.BIC 3-MAR-83 17 001116 18 VDLAB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 001137 19 VDVAC0.BIC 3-MAR-83 14 001157 20 VKAFE0.BIN 3-MAR-83 5 001175 21 VKAHA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 001202 22 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 001222 FREE BLOCKS: 117 .DIR DU1: (CZXD3B0 Field Service Tests 3) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000073 2 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000124 ?.? 3 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000131 ?.? 4 VDMAA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 31 000135 5 VDMBA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 30 000174 6 VDMCA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 30 000232 7 VDMDA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 27 000270 8 VDMEA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 27 000323 9 VDPVB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 31 000356 10 VDZCB1.BIN 31-MAR-83 12 000415 11 VDZAC0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000431 12 VDZBB0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000451 13 VAAAA1.BIC 7-DEC-82 13 000471 14 VADAC0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000506 15 VAXAA0.BIC 7-DEC-82 16 000526 16 VTSAA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 36 000546 17 VTSBA0.BIC 15-JUL-83 67 000612 18 VTSCA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 73 000715 19 VDZDA0.BIN 31-MAR-83 4 001026 20 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 001032 ?.? 21 VTSDA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 68 001062 22 VTSEA0.BIC 14-SEP-82 23 001166 FREE BLOCKS: 147 .DIR DU1: (CZXD4B0 Field Service Tests 4) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? 2 UPD2 .BIN 5-NOV-82 26 000100 3 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000132 ?.? 4 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000136 ?.? 5 ZLPLD0.BIN 4-JUN-82 31 000166 6 ZDUQC0.BIN 3-MAR-83 16 000225 7 ZDURB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000245 8 ZDUSB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000265 9 ZDUTB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000305 10 ZDUVB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 000325 11 ZRLNA2.BIN 3-MAR-83 28 000345 12 ZRLKB2.BIC 3-MAR-83 26 000401 13 ZRLLC0.BIN 3-MAR-83 14 000433 14 ZRLMB0.BIN 3-MAR-83 23 000451 15 ZRLGC0.BIN 3-MAR-83 19 000500 16 ZRLHB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 27 000523 17 ZRLID0.BIN 3-MAR-83 30 000556 18 ZRLJB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 23 000614 19 ZTUUD0.BIN 7-DEC-82 22 000643 20 VKWAC0.BIC 3-MAR-83 17 000671 21 VDRAB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 14 000712 22 VDRCB0.BIN 3-MAR-83 16 000730 23 VDRDB0.BIC 3-MAR-83 15 000750 24 VIBAA2.BIC 3-MAR-83 12 000767 25 VIBBA1.BIC 3-MAR-83 12 001003 27 ZDUUB1.BIC 3-MAR-83 16 001043 28 VRLBA0.BIC 31-MAR-83 32 001063 29 VDRBA0.BIN 7-DEC-82 7 001123 FREE BLOCKS: 218 .DIR DU1: (CZUFB1 User Tests) ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 MENU .BIC 14-MAR-83 5 000073 2 MENU .CCC 23-OCT-83 18 000100 3 SYSTEM.CCC 30-AUG-83 26 000123 4 ZRQCA2.BIC 2-NOV-83 4 000155 5 HDZSA0.BIC 16-JUN-83 2 000161 6 HUXEA0.BIC 5-JUL-83 2 000163 7 LCPX .BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000165 8 LCPDX .BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000302 9 LCPZX .BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000417 10 LCPZDX.BIC 2-NOV-83 77 000534 11 JKL5A2.BIC 29-JUL-83 94 000651 12 VMSBA1.BIC 2-AUG-83 10 001007 13 VDZAD1.BIC 29-JUL-83 17 001021 14 VDZBC1.BIC 1-AUG-83 17 001042 15 ZRQABD.BIC 19-AUG-83 71 001063 16 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 001172 ?.? 17 HUDIB0.SYS 26-MAR-81 5 001222 ?.? 18 HELP .TXT 17-MAR-83 10 001227 19 MENU .HLP 25-FEB-83 4 001241 20 HCDQC0.SYS 2-AUG-83 18 001245 ?.? 21 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 001267 ?.? 22 UPD2 .BIC 5-NOV-82 26 001273 FREE BLOCKS: 76 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Tue May 4 01:07:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP)? References: <200405030328.i433SAFj030049@spies.com> Message-ID: <000901c4319e$1232a800$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> I may have some sales lit. I need a faster scanner before I attempt to start processing any of this stuff.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: Re: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP)? > > > > Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical info > available on the HP250 machines? > > -- > > check out www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/250 > > I should have more information on the 300 soon. > AFAIK the 300 and 3000/S33 were pretty much the same hardware except for microcode. > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 03:51:16 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? Message-ID: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? I have one. After a bit of detective work, I got it to at least somewhat work. I now have it to the point where I can connect it up and turn it on. When I do, I get nothing until one of the buttons on the puck is pressed, at which point it starts generating a stream of samples, continuing for as long as some button is pressed. The format is fairly easy, just %04d,%04d,%1d\n sent with the 0x80 bits set to provide even parity, where the four-digit numbers are the location (based on an 8.5" edge of a piece of paper and some arithmetic, it appears to be 200dpi) and the last indicates what button is pressed. This makes it all at least somewhat usable. But I'd really like to be able to get samples back even when no buttons are pressed, whence my question. The back does include a sticker saying, among other things, "BIT PAD FORMAT", which may or may not mean anything useful. I did go a-googling, but either there's nothing to be found or I didn't guess the right incantation to find it. `Summagraphics MM1103 serial protocol' turns up no hits - though it probably will once this message gets archived and googled :) - and neither did `"bit pad format"'. It _is_ on-topic; there's a sticker on the back with a Date: field containing a handwritten date that is clearly in 1984 (it appears to read "10/17/84"), which contains other text implying it was added by a leasing/service organization. Thoughts? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Tue May 4 04:52:01 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <409767C1.5080205@gmx.net> I have a SummaSketch MM1201 and the documentation for it. The protocol doesn't match your description. But maybe it helps a little bit anyway. Baud Rate: 9600 # Start Bits: 1 # Stop Bits: 1 # Data Bits: 8 Parity Bit: Odd Data Format: MSB bits LSB 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 byte 1 1 PR 0 Sx Sy Fc Fb Fa byte 2 0 X6 X5 X4 X3 X2 X1 X0 byte 3 0 X13 X12 X11 X10 X9 X8 X7 byte 4 0 Y6 Y5 Y4 Y3 Y2 Y1 Y0 byte 5 0 Y13 Y12 Y11 Y10 Y9 Y8 Y7 F is the flag bit, identifying the stylus or puck buttons being pressed: Stylus Puck Binary Output Buttons Buttons Fc Fb Fa none none 0 0 0 tip button 1 0 0 1 barrel button 2 0 1 0 tip and barrel 3 0 1 1 - 4 1 0 0 - 1+2 0 1 1 - 1+3 0 1 1 - 1+4 1 0 1 - 2+3 0 1 1 - 2+4 1 1 0 - 1+2+3 0 1 1 - 1+2+4 1 1 1 - 2+3+4 1 1 1 - 1+2+3+4 1 1 1 Sy and Sx are the sign bits for the Y and X coordinates. 1 is positive. 0 is negative. PR is the proximity bit. When stylus or puck is in proximity, the bit is 0. When out of proximity, it is 1. X0..X13 and Y0..Y13 are the X and Y coordinates. Gerold der Mouse schrieb: > Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol > spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? > > I have one. After a bit of detective work, I got it to at least > somewhat work. I now have it to the point where I can connect it up > and turn it on. When I do, I get nothing until one of the buttons on > the puck is pressed, at which point it starts generating a stream of > samples, continuing for as long as some button is pressed. The format > is fairly easy, just %04d,%04d,%1d\n sent with the 0x80 bits set to > provide even parity, where the four-digit numbers are the location > (based on an 8.5" edge of a piece of paper and some arithmetic, it > appears to be 200dpi) and the last indicates what button is pressed. > > This makes it all at least somewhat usable. But I'd really like to be > able to get samples back even when no buttons are pressed, whence my > question. > > The back does include a sticker saying, among other things, "BIT PAD > FORMAT", which may or may not mean anything useful. I did go > a-googling, but either there's nothing to be found or I didn't guess > the right incantation to find it. `Summagraphics MM1103 serial > protocol' turns up no hits - though it probably will once this message > gets archived and googled :) - and neither did `"bit pad format"'. > > It _is_ on-topic; there's a sticker on the back with a Date: field > containing a handwritten date that is clearly in 1984 (it appears to > read "10/17/84"), which contains other text implying it was added by a > leasing/service organization. > > Thoughts? > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue May 4 05:19:03 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) References: Message-ID: <0d3d01c431c1$399f0af0$6800a8c0@athlon> My 98036A serial interface is in a plastic case but the 98034B HPIB interface is in a diecast case. DaveB Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:09 PM Subject: Re: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) snip a lot > Have you seen a metal-cased I/O module for these machines? One of my HPIB > interfaces is in a die-cast case, not a plastic one. > > > -tony > > From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Tue May 4 04:34:17 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503100814.0082eec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <33BCA275.186026F2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040504203417.010eb2fc@pop-server> At 10:08 AM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: > You forgot to attach her message and/or address. > > AFIK there were no options for the original Portable. I've had several >and read the manuals and I don't remember hearing of any options. But it's >been a long time and I could be wrong. I think somewhere I still have an >original brochure and some manuals but don't ask me to find them. I can't >find half the stuff that I thought I knew where it was. > > IIRC they were 256k, 8088 CPU and dual DS disk drives and that was it. >The Portable II was 40% smaller and lighter and had 640k of RAM. I think a >hard drive was available in the P-II but I don't know if that was from the >factory or a third party job. > > Joe The Portable II is a 286 (8MHz from memory). I had a couple once, both had factory fitted 20MB HDDs. The HDDs were Miniscribe 8425s. A 3.5" MFM drive mounted on rubber in a bracket that would almost fill a full height 5.25" drive bay. In both the machines a WD (with a Compaq sticker) MFM to IDE adapter was used to run it off the IDE port on the original Compaq I/O card. Both of mine had Compaq CGA cards in them, but they did better than CGA text. I think EGA was available later. I had a Deskpro 386 with a Compaq EGA card. The EGA card has an internal video connector that matched the Portable II's monitor connector. I never tried this out, I sold the deskpro before I got the Portable IIs. I had a Portable I. It had 256KB on the motherboard, but could be expanded to 640KB with an ISA memory card like (almost) any other XT. From memory there was a Portable Plus, a Portable I with a 10MB HDD. I've still got a Portable 486, I think that was the last of the luggables. It looks like a smaller version of the Portable III case, but with an LCD display rather than plasma. 486DX2-66, 16MB RAM,500MB SCSI HDD, 2 ISA slots, mains powers only. Definitely not a laptop, would be a nice little machine (well, as nice as a 486 luggable gets anyway) if the display worked properly. From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Tue May 4 05:05:14 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: 2 PDP-11/04s available in Melbourne, Australia Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040504210514.010ebae0@pop-server> Available for free (pick up only, I can't think of a viable way to ship these) in the SE suburbs or Melbourne. 2 x PDP-11/04s 4 x RL01 drives Misc. RL01 disk packs, cables, etc. No racks They're in rough condition. They've been sitting on the back verandah of my house for some time now. Out of the rain, but exposed to the elements. I removed them from a building that was being vandalized and eventually demolished. A planned move that would have seen them more appropriately housed fell through. I haven't attempted to power them up. They used to be the character generator and animation system for a large scoreboard. One of the RL01s is damaged. There are dents and scratches from where someone has hit it with something. The VT100s there didn't fare so well. I doubt any of the disk packs will be salvageable, they've been thrown around (I found this lot after tripping over a disk pack while I was walking through the long grass). Getting this stuff down from the 5th floor was hard work on my own. I was hoping to get it up and running again one day, but probably should have passed it on to someone else long ago. I recall offering these to someone on this list sometime ago, but I lost contact (my apologies, not his fault). From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 07:30:22 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer (+one on Ebay for $500) Message-ID: <200405041230.i44CUMdl069761@huey.classiccmp.org> >I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. >Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the >sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM >and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor >configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely >didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time >before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup >battery or CMOS setup storage. Lunchbox, Plasma, 640k and no-expansion all sound right, however it's definately a 286, and according to the Compaq literature as well as several web sites I've just checked, that's what's supposed to be in there... Here's a guy on Ebay trying to sell one for $500 ... any takers? :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=4127904926 [I'd even let mine go at that price - found at garage sale for $5] The setup software was a bootable diskette (like the original IBM-AT)... It definately has a CMOS RAM and battery, because mine is dead and doesn't hold a charge, causing the machine to fail it's startup disgnostics if you leave it for more than a day or two. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 07:30:22 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <200405041230.i44CUMdl069760@huey.classiccmp.org> >> If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >> get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure >> the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >> checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a >> CMOS Checksum error. > >http://www.compaq.com/support/files/obsolete_diagnostics.html >I THINK that it includes what you need, along with some other junk. Thanks! - that was exactly what I wanted - works perfectly! Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 07:55:23 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface Message-ID: <200405041255.i44CtNdl069924@huey.classiccmp.org> At 23:57 03/05/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for >> the 64? >> Cheers >> Stu >> >Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some >1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. Is this the RS-232 module valled "VIC 1011A" which connects to the C64 "User port"? If so, I found one in a box of Commodore stuff I picked up this weekend... (Sorry, I don't think I want to part with it just yet, and it would be a long way to send it anyway). If anyone has some info on this device, it would be appreciated. I tried to look inside, however after removing the single screw from the bottom, it still seemed to be glued together, and I didn't want to break it. I'm guessing that it's just level converters for a "bit bash" serial port... If so, it should not be hard to cook something up yourself. Here is a page giving some information on rolling your own C64 serial port: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/projects/rs232/ Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 07:42:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504084253.0089ccc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:00 PM 5/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >> I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >>II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >>640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >>remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >>a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. > >FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on >my site if anyone wants to see one. > >If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure >the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a >CMOS Checksum error. Mike Haas has has the setup disk. I gave it to him along with the P-IIIs that I had. The setup program should also be one several of the machines. FWIW I once found a third party setup program that worked on them. I don't remember the name of it but I'm pretty sure that it was put out by a company in Clearwater Florida that was later bought out by Quarterdeck. I may still have a copy of it or the Compaq setup program. I'll look and see. One thing to be aware of is that only the very first few drive table enties match that used by IBM so be carefull setting the hard drive type. Joe > >Regards, >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:16:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040503162348.008378b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504091607.0092e370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:09 AM 5/4/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> There are unless you got the optional Hi-Performace bit-slice CPU. One >> > >> >I think I may well have that. >> >> That would be cool! I have four or five 9845s but I don't think any of >> mine have that option. > >What do you have in the far right slot? Is it a single PCB with an HP >metal-heatsinked hybrid on it, a set of 3 boards, or what? I can't tell you at the moment. Mine are all in storage. I sort of lost interest in them. They're a PITA to keep working and take up too much room. If anybody wants one come and get it. I have several and I don't think I'm going to bother with them any more. I will not ship!!! These are big, heavy and awkward! > >Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial >to dismantle. To take off the top cover you have to remove the 2 little >metal latch brackets for the montior first. And you have to remove the >keyboard/tape drive assembly to get the cards out, they just don't clear >the back edge of it when the keyboard is screwed down. Oh well... I agree that it could have been better. The 9845s are very unreliable. I'm having to constantly reove, clean and reseat the cards in order to keep them working. > >> >I know little of the history of my 9845, other than when I got it it came >> >with 2 8" drives, a few 16 bit parallel interfaces, 3 HPIB interfaces >> >(!) a real time clock at least one RS232 interface and the rather >> >hard-to-find 9878 expansion chassis. >> >> hard to find? Sheesh I find them all over. nearly every 9825 that I find > >They're not at all common in the UK... > >> comes with one. I just passed one up in a scrap yard a couple of weeks ago. >> Also passed up a couple of the RTC modules. The RTC modules with the IO >> cable are cool. You can interface them to external devices and trigger the > >All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, >it's just a cable you have to add. IIRC the main circuit board has a connector but IIRC you have to add the mating connector along with the cable. However I've been lucky and found a fair number of modules with the cables already installed. However I think they're all new. I don't think I've ever found one that had been wired up to anything. > >> devices or use the device to trigger events in the 9845. > >YEs.. > >That clock is one strange design. When the machine is powered up, the >clock is done in software on the HP microcontroller inside. But there's >also a digital watch chip (!) which is battery backed and used to keep >the time when the machine is powered down. > >The interface to the watch chip is what you might expect. a couple of >'buttons' for things like selecting the time/date, setting the clock, >etc, digit strobes (outputs from the watch chip) and the 7-segment >outputs (one of which isn't used, since the microcontroller can identify >the digit without it). I think there's also an annunciator output, which >means there are only 3 digit strobes (the most significant digit is >either blank or 1, both for time and US-style date, so you just need a >single line for it, rather than a complete digit.) You can actually >attach a 7 segment display to traces on the board and get it to display >the time when the clock module is starting up. That's interesting. I hadn't looked that close at the workings of the time module and had no idea that it was built that way. I wonder why it included all of that? > >Incidentally, the clock testpoint mentioned in the manual is one of the >digit strobes. That's why it's a division of 3 from a power-of-2 >frequency. And that's what 'gave it away' when I was sorting out just >what was going on on that board. > >The clocks are fairly common, ones that have not been damaged by battery >electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel >interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O >cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I >am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. So am I. I think I have one or two of them but that's all. > >Have you seen a metal-cased I/O module for these machines? One of my HPIB >interfaces is in a die-cast case, not a plastic one. Yes I've seen several of those. I've heard of something called "Tin-roof" or somesuch and it think it referred to those. I think it was a change to make them comply with some new RFI emissions requirements. I had some messages that referred to it but I lost them when my HD crashed. Joe > > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 07:37:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) In-Reply-To: <53CB7766CBAB9148BCB56ABC56F408CF5FEF37@california.drso.biz > Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504083715.008a5a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Karen, Why do you need the CS/80 manual to access the 7946? You should be able to connect it to a HP 9000 computer and have the computer read it without doing anything else. Are you trying to read a tape or the hard drive? Joe in Oviedo Florida. At 02:16 PM 5/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >Glen, >I found this link >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002328.html >while searching for this manual. Do you still have a copy of it? And would you be willing to share? I have an HP 7946 tape drive I need to access and the manual is nowhere to be found. > >Karen Reid >Sr. Test Engineer >DRS Optronics, Inc. >100 N. Babcock St. >Melbourne, FL 32935 >321.309.1865 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:05:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504090519.008a5d50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:09 PM 5/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:01 -0500 (CDT) >Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> > I think the first one was the Portable (8088 w/ 256k, then the Portable >> >II (smaller but still 8088 and 640K) then the Portable 286 (286 CPU and >> >640k(?)), then the Portable III (the small lunchbox sized computer (I don't >> >remember if theese were 286s or 386SXs)) and then the Portable 386 (it had >> >a full fledged 386DX). FWIW I have a P-II sitting about five feet from me. >> >> FWIW, the Portable III is a 286 machine. I have pictures of mine posted on >> my site if anyone wants to see one. >> >> If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >> get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can configure >> the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >> checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it gets a >> CMOS Checksum error. >> > >I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. > That is odd! I've had about 8 or 10 of the P-IIIs and they were all 286/386 type machines. They definitely used CMOs setups and batteries and the batteries were always running down and losing the settings. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:11:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: References: <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504091106.009273a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> That sounds right. I was thinking of the Portable/Plus model but called it a P-II. I had quite few of the P-IIIs with the optional expansion units. They made nice little controllers for HP-IL, HP-IB and EPROM programmers. Joe At 02:27 AM 5/4/04 -0400, Bill wrote: > >Compaq Case Rough >Designation Style Specs >------------ -------- ----- > >Portable IBM 5155 Style, 8088, 256K, CRT, AC > >Portable/Plus " , 8088, 640K with Rev C ROM, CRT EGA, AC > >Portable II " , 80286, CRT EGA, AC > >Portable III Breadbox , 80286 8/12 MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG >optional). > Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC > >Portable 286 Same as above > >Portable 386 Breadbox , 80386 20MHz, Plasma CGA std (ECG & VCG optional). > Optional rear 2 slot expansion unit, AC > >SLT286 Lunchbox , 80286 8/12MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC >w/adapter > >SLT386 Lunchbox , 80386 ?MHz, Monochrome LCD, NiCd Battery Pack, AC >w/adapter > > > > >> On Mon, 3 May 2004 Scott Stevens wrote: >> >> I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February >> was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox >> configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it >> and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM >> and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with >> different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a >> 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a >> Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time >> before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had >> didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. >> >> >> >> > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 08:27:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: BASICON MC-1N docs *scored*! Message-ID: <20040504132729.GA3732@bos7.spole.gov> I finally heard back from the gentleman who responds to requests from the e-mail address at Basicon's former site... he sent me scans of some paper docs... JPGs, but quite legible. It fits the final pieces of the puzzle together for me, including fixing an ambiguity I had with one of the power/comms connector pins, and giving programming examples for talking to the MM58154A clock/calendar chip. If you ever happen to run across a 3"x4" board with an INS8073 and an 8255, embedded in something, nab it - it's a cool little piece of the early 1980s. Thanks to all for your input and help figuring this thing out. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 13:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.2 F (-66.3 C) Windchill -145.1 F (-98.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12 kts Grid 024 Barometer 673.1 mb (10888. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 08:52:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3FD89E28.50301@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504095236.00b219f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Do you have the serial number? You should report it to Steve Gabaly (SP?). He was keeping a list of all the Altair serial numbers that he could find. I don't have his e-mail address any more but he's Obtronix on E-bay. Joe At 08:41 AM 12/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >Has anyone seen an altair 8800 with a circular keylock power switch, I >would like to track down the bastard >that ripped me off a long time ago. >This was in Oregon, 20 years from before, He ripped off a bunch of other >people, IMHO, Jim Willing and Mike Boyd. >His position was last reported in Eugene, that was years ago. >Jim Davis. > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:19:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT100 terminal parts available Message-ID: <00f201c431e2$d2a64b20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have 2 VT100 terminals plus a vt100 plastic shell that I'm parting out. They are VERY yellowed cases, obviously a smoking environment. Definitely some screen burnin too. On at least one of them the fasteners that hold the top of the case to the bottom of the case are broken. I don't think they are worth much more than the junk heap. They all power up and go into setup mode just fine. They are all true VT100's, not 102's, etc. Some or all of the keyboards are missing some keycaps. I think one keyboard may have all it's keys. In addition, I have a vt102 without the top or bottom case. It is in perfect working order, clean, and no burnin with one major flaw. The metal band around the front of the tube has slipped, meaning two of the L brackets that are held down by that band have slipped back so the monitor is about 1/2 inch forward of where it should be. Thus it won't fit into a plastic case quite right. The band is too tight to push the L brackets back into place, and I'm not comfortable cutting that band and trying to put a new one in place (something about working with a large glass object under pressure scares me a bit). So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 vt100's. If anyone wants me to scavenge parts (logic board, power supply board, flyback, transformer, keycaps, crt tube, etc.) I would be happy to do that. Total price for each shipment will be shipping cost + 5 bucks (unless you just want a keycap or something)...negotiable. The only stipulation is you must let me know in a day or two, I'm itching to get them out of the house and gone. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:20:01 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question Message-ID: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, copy, print", something like that. My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have something unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. Anyone know the answer? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 09:29:50 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something References: <3.0.6.32.20040503172919.0082aa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16535.43230.576000.770768@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: Fred> Well, some of the 11/34's I am currently working on for some of Fred> you guys are Tek-labelled. Since these are labelled CP1134, I Fred> will just assume that Tek took 11/60's, and rebadged them into Fred> CP1160 in your case? No, that doesn't look at all like an 11/60. Those have a narrow console with pushbuttons, not the classic lights and switches style as shown in the CP-1160 photo. Someone said it's an 11/35, and that seems about right. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 08:00:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available Message-ID: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have 2 VT100 terminals plus a vt100 plastic shell that I'm parting out. They are VERY yellowed cases, obviously a smoking environment. Definitely some screen burnin too. On at least one of them the fasteners that hold the top of the case to the bottom of the case are broken. I don't think they are worth much more than the junk heap. They all power up and go into setup mode just fine. They are all true VT100's, not 102's, etc. Some or all of the keyboards are missing some keycaps. I think one keyboard may have all it's keys. In addition, I have a vt102 without the top or bottom case. It is in perfect working order, clean, and no burnin with one major flaw. The metal band around the front of the tube has slipped, meaning two of the L brackets that are held down by that band have slipped back so the monitor is about 1/2 inch forward of where it should be. Thus it won't fit into a plastic case quite right. The band is too tight to push the L brackets back into place, and I'm not comfortable cutting that band and trying to put a new one in place (something about working with a large glass object under pressure scares me a bit). So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 vt100's. If anyone wants me to scavenge parts (logic board, power supply board, flyback, transformer, keycaps, crt tube, etc.) I would be happy to do that. Total price for each shipment will be shipping cost + 5 bucks (unless you just want a keycap or something)...negotiable. The only stipulation is you must let me know in a day or two, I'm itching to get them out of the house and gone. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From kth at srv.net Tue May 4 09:57:29 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4097AF59.8010206@srv.net> Jay West wrote: >I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On >the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match >the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the >keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, >blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, >copy, print", something like that. > > > It's a word processing keyboard, probably for some version of DecWord, or WordPerfect. Both used colored PFn keys. They were optional keyboards, but quite common. Available for the VT200 series also. >My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another >non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used >with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have something >unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge >the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. > >Anyone know the answer? > >Thanks! > >Jay West > > > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue May 4 09:52:28 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405040752.28052.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Decmate keyboards are like that. The keyboards are Wordprocessing oriented - and the "gold" key was very important ;-) They work the same as standard DEC LKxxx keyboards. Lyle On Tuesday 04 May 2004 07:20, Jay West wrote: > I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On > the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match > the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the > keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - > red, blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like > "left, copy, print", something like that. > > My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another > non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used > with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have > something unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and > scavenge the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to > junk. > > Anyone know the answer? > > Thanks! > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:48:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question Message-ID: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been wondering for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 terminal???? I can't find it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not looking for a key combo that interrupts a specific host platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to generate a real electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 09:54:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16535.44732.353000.982174@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a Jay> listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric Jay> keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on Jay> the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the Jay> other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white Jay> - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, Jay> copy, print", something like that. Jay> My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from Jay> another non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this Jay> some option used with some word processing software? If the Jay> later, I'm happy I have something unusual. If the former, I am Jay> going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge the "correct" keys Jay> from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. Those are DECword (a.k.a., WPS) keycaps. The gold key is the dead giveaway -- WPS used that as a command prefix, similar to the way TECO and Emacs use ESC. You'd be more likely to find those keycaps on an LK201 style keyboard, to go with a DECmate. Or they would appear on a box that looks like a VT52 -- an older WPS box. But the VT100 series keyboard makes sense; if nothing else, that could go with the WPS-Plus application that was part of one of KO's stranger brainstorms. That was a port of the WPS system to VMS, and then backported to a PDP11 (RSX or RSTS) for terribly bad performance, written in a brand new programming language (KOALA) never seen before or since. So you have something legit and somewhat unusual. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 08:15:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 terminal question? Message-ID: <008d01c431d9$e6504120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, copy, print", something like that. My question is - is it likely that someone scavenged keys from another non-vt100 keyboard to replace missing keys, or was this some option used with some word processing software? If the later, I'm happy I have something unusual. If the former, I am going to yank those keycaps off and scavenge the "correct" keys from one of the other VT100's I'm going to junk. Anyone know the answer? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 09:51:42 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Televideo 910 question Message-ID: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> My, I'm just full of terminal questions... I have a Televideo 910.. maybe it's a 950 but I think it said 910 on it. When the terminal is just sitting there with stuff on the screen, no data is being sent or received... it will suddenly flip to a "previous screen" all by itself. I don't know if the terminal supports multiple pages of display memory, but the symptom is as if it does support multiple display memory and spontaneously all by itself it switches pages and I see data on the screen that came by a while ago. Can anyone point to a likely culprit that may be causing this? The terminal itself is in perfect mint condition so I hate to get rid of it but this problem is annoying! Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 10:08:35 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16535.45555.654000.891784@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been Jay> wondering for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 Jay> terminal???? I can't find it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm Jay> not looking for a key combo that interrupts a specific host Jay> platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to generate a real Jay> electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? Yes. One of the F keys (F5?). The "BREAK" will appear on the function key label strip that goes under the flip-up clear cover above the row of function keys. It's on the label strip because the BREAK function (and other things, like SETUP) apply to terminals but not necessarily to other things that use the LK2xx series keyboard (like a PRO). You may also need to enable Break via setup; some vague memory says that it can be configured to be a regular break or it can be made to send control/C. Not sure about that; just walk through the setup menus to see if there's any mention of it there. paul From MTPro at aol.com Tue May 4 10:15:15 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable computer Message-ID: <072F41D1.4C2AA91E.0000EF7A@aol.com> << I had a Portable I. It had 256KB on the motherboard, but could be expanded to 640KB with an ISA memory card like (almost) any other XT. From memory there was a Portable Plus, a Portable I with a 10MB HDD. >> Thanks to everyone for the discussion and answers; I will forward along the information to the woman. I actually did forward her e-mail to the list, but I guess the list server does not allow that and only submitted my e-mail "shell." Best, David, classiccomputing.com From jpl15 at panix.com Tue May 4 10:22:12 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been wondering > for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 terminal???? I can't find > it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not looking for a key combo that > interrupts a specific host platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to > generate a real electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is not a signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual signal current flowing in the terminal circuit. This makes sense in a 'current loop' environment, such as DC-loop teletype circuits. One presses the 'BREAK' key, switching off the loop, and all the machines in that loop begin to 'run open' - they just start cycling mechanically, since in most classic mechanical TTYs, the loop current serves to hold the mechanism clutch(es) in the 'start' or 'ready' position, waiting for code pulses to come along and set up a character printing cycle. Second: I am not sure that the newer 20ma current loop devices - ASR33s, and DEC (and other) devices that use 20ma loop serial - will use this actual electrical 'break' for an "ATTENTION" signal. Anyone...? On my VT220, as connected to a VAXStation 3100, depressing the 'BREAK' key on the LK401 causes an immediate processor halt and the display of a monitor prompt... >>> . Since I have it hooked up using the RS232 port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in RS232 - it must be some other code... or, is it? The VT220 Programmer Pocket Guide just says that he first 5 top-row keys are "local function keys and do not generate codes." The actual VT220 Operator's Manual expands on this a bit - the 'BREAK' function has to be enabled in set-up, and one can also issue a shift-break to start a 'disconnect', or a cntrl-break to send the 'answerback' sequence to the host machine. But it still doesn't tell me what the hardware does when pressing 'BREAK'. IF no one knows, I'll have to get out the break-out box and see if I can trap it. Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 10:26:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504095236.00b219f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3FD89E28.50301@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year ago! Joe At 09:52 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: > Do you have the serial number? You should report it to Steve Gabaly >(SP?). He was keeping a list of all the Altair serial numbers that he could >find. I don't have his e-mail address any more but he's Obtronix on E-bay. > > Joe > > >At 08:41 AM 12/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >>Has anyone seen an altair 8800 with a circular keylock power switch, I >>would like to track down the bastard >>that ripped me off a long time ago. >>This was in Oregon, 20 years from before, He ripped off a bunch of other >>people, IMHO, Jim Willing and Mike Boyd. >>His position was last reported in Eugene, that was years ago. >>Jim Davis. >> >> >> > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 10:26:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <016c01c431ec$330ab880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> John wrote... > Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is not a > signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual signal current > flowing in the terminal circuit. This makes sense in a 'current loop' > environment, such as DC-loop teletype circuits. and > Since I have it hooked up using the RS232 > port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in > RS232 yes there is. and > But it still doesn't tell me what the hardware does when pressing > 'BREAK'. IF no one knows, I'll have to get out the break-out box and > see if I can trap it. A "BREAK" in RS232 is a "signal" at least in the sense that most receiving hardware can detect it and do "special things" upon receipt. I am going from foggy memory, but as I recall, a break is a long space or mark, longer than any valid word format timing would normally indicate with no logic state changes inbetween. So there is no "BREAK" "character" as it's not a character with start & stop bits. I seem to remember that most UARTS (8250 is my experience) will detect a break condition and set a flag in the status register to indicate receipt of a break. A bit of squirrelyness though, on many terminals you can set the length (in ms) of the break signal to various values as some hosts require the "long character" to be at least X ms. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue May 4 10:36:18 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year ago! Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was wondering the same thing! From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 4 10:36:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:18 2005 Subject: vt220 question References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16535.47249.15421.122972@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: >> Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been >> wondering for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 >> terminal???? I can't find it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not >> looking for a key combo that interrupts a specific host platform >> like ^C or ^P or something, I want to generate a real electrical >> "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? John> Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is John> not a signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual John> signal current flowing in the terminal circuit. This makes John> sense in a 'current loop' environment, such as DC-loop teletype John> circuits. ... John> I am not sure that the newer 20ma current loop devices - John> ASR33s, and DEC (and other) devices that use 20ma loop serial - John> will use this actual electrical 'break' for an "ATTENTION" John> signal. Anyone...? Yes, they do. In the ASR33, Break functions exactly as you described it. On newer devices, Break is generally defined as "open the circuit for several character times" or "open the circuit for at least 200 ms", something like that. John> On my VT220, as connected to a VAXStation 3100, depressing the John> 'BREAK' key on the LK401 causes an immediate processor halt and John> the display of a monitor prompt... >>> . Since I have it John> hooked up using the RS232 port, and since there is no such John> thing as a real interrupting 'break' in RS232 - it must be some John> other code... or, is it? Break most definitely IS defined on RS232. There's a one to one correspondence between current loop and RS232 levels: closed loop is mark and open loop is space, and mark and space correspond to the two RS232 signal levels. (I may have mark and space reversed... the McNamara book has all this but it's buried.) So Break defined as "send space for > 200 ms" works perfectly well in RS232. The UARTs at the computer end either recognize break directly and report it explicitly, or (in older ones) the driver uses a definition of the form "if I get a framing error associated with a character code 0xff, it's a break". On DEC consoles, Break has traditionally been the "talk to the console microcode" attention signal. On other terminal lines, Break if often translated to control/C (it is on RSTS, for example, or at least it can be configured that way). Every DEC terminal I know of has support for Break for this reason. paul From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 10:38:31 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (dave04a@dunfield.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question Message-ID: <232810-22004524153831825@M2W070.mail2web.com> >On my VT220, as connected to a VAXStation 3100, depressing the 'BREAK' >key on the LK401 causes an immediate processor halt and the display of a >monitor prompt... >>> . Since I have it hooked up using the RS232 >port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in >RS232 - it must be some other code... or, is it? The VT220 Programmer >Pocket Guide just says that he first 5 top-row keys are "local function >keys and do not generate codes." > > But it still doesn't tell me what the hardware does when pressing >'BREAK'. IF no one knows, I'll have to get out the break-out box and >see if I can trap it. BREAK on typical RS-232 terminal simply sets the line to the SPACE condition for a number of character intervals. This causes a framing error at the receiver (no stop bit) and many system will time this and if it persists long enough will interpret it as a system attention function. Better terminals will generate a timed pulse when break is depressed, some terminals simply send a space condition for as long as the key is held down. Regards, Dave Dunfield -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From jpl15 at panix.com Tue May 4 10:51:54 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: RS232 break Message-ID: I see that my RS232 lore needs a bit of brushing up! As much work as I've done with serial data thingys, ya think I'dve remembered something fundamental like that. And I was so pompously positive, too.. Let the Lashing begin! ;{} Cheers John PS: this certainly goes to the value of this List as educational tool - From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue May 4 10:51:08 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20040504175108.43063f2e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 4 May 2004 04:14:44 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > But in the case of DEC machines at least, the > individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase and neutral > > (star connected). The VAX6000 has a controled (?) six pulse rectifier that generates 400V DC from three phase mains. This DC current is distributed to the individual PSUs. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 10:53:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: RS232 break References: Message-ID: <019b01c431ef$f90c63a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > I see that my RS232 lore needs a bit of brushing up! To me, by far the best book on this topic is "RS-232 made easy". It truely pains me to say that about a book with "made easy" in the title, but honestly, the book is extremely thorough and very detailed. They have large sections of how to build up a code library in C to talk directly to an 8250 UART. Sections on parity generation methodologies, etc. Also has lots of information to give you a clear understanding of exactly how to wire up your own custom cables, like when to cross what signals (DTE vs. DCE), several suggested methods for handling devices with disparate versions of hardware control signals, etc. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 11:12:08 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 00:19, der Mouse wrote: > > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V > > phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on > > the third one. > > That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, > something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. No, it is a neutral, because it is grounded. On a three-phase delta, you ground the center tap of one (only one!) of the phases. > Certainly if you have three phases 120? apart such that there is > 240VRMS between any two phases, you can center-tap between any of two > them, but the tap won't be 0V to ground and thus I would maintain > that calling it "neutral" is misleading, enough so that I'd call it > _dangerously_ misleading. (By my calculations, it will be something > like 70V to ground, but I'm not sure I have the math straight.) In all of my examples, the neutrals were "grounded neutrals". Maybe I should have been more clear about that. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 11:45:42 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405041145.42546.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 11:12, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 00:19, der Mouse wrote: > > Certainly if you have three phases 120? apart such that there is > > 240VRMS between any two phases, you can center-tap between any of > > two them, but the tap won't be 0V to ground and thus I would > > maintain that calling it "neutral" is misleading, enough so that > > I'd call it _dangerously_ misleading. (By my calculations, it will > > be something like 70V to ground, but I'm not sure I have the math > > straight.) Rereading this, I should explain something I think. If you don't connect a ground to the secondaries, there is no ground, and the voltage are "floating" with respect to ground. You can connect a ground to any point on the secondary you wish, as long as it's only one voltage potential you've called ground. For a wye, the ground is the connection point between the three separate tranformer secondaries (one per phase), and for a delta, it's the one point you pick on the set of the three secondaries. You have to remember that the *only* way you establish a relation to ground potential on the secondary side of the line tranformer is by connecting ground to some point on the secondary side. For example, if you decided to connect the transformer like this: (240V) (12kV) Secondary Primary A---B +---X Y \ / | \ / C----+ G | Z Your secondaries would now be at (about) 7kV +-240V, assuming that "G" was grounded on the primary side. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From allain at panix.com Tue May 4 12:20:46 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: SunTurboxGX card names. Possibly OT. References: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <005701c431fc$24014880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> At the TCF I go a Sun video card (with a STP3010PGA TurboxGX chip on it) as _scrap_. It's broken, but interesting in that it has printed on the PCB: "Curtis, Chris M, Joe, Brian, Kevin, Chris O., ... Mike, Bruce, Don, Anissa, Tony, Young" and the names Curtis, Chris M, and Bruce are printed with an X over them, rather than being removed. Is this a list of designers like on the inside of the Mac? Why did they cross out the three names rather than just drop them? Looking for more of a story here, in case someone knows. It's a lot of board realestate used, sounds like it might've been an interesting project. Less obscure question follows this one. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 12:27:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:36 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: >> Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year >ago! > >Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was >wondering >the same thing! > > No five months ago it also made a reappearance. I think I originally sent it about 1 1/2 or 2 years ago. Joe From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue May 4 12:35:20 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I'd venture a guess of this as the originating machine from the headers: Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i44Du683015611 for ; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Anything there look recognizable? David On Tue, 4 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 11:36 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: > >> Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year > >ago! > > > >Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was > >wondering > >the same thing! > > > > > > No five months ago it also made a reappearance. I think I originally > sent it about 1 1/2 or 2 years ago. > > Joe > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 4 12:48:15 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040504112603.008df100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504132727.009418c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >I'd venture a guess of this as the originating machine from the headers: > >Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) > by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id >i44Du683015611 for > ; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) > >Anything there look recognizable? > >David It looks like the following (from the message in December), except for the SMTP id, AND the SMTP server itself. Very weird. Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) by ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id hBBHi278009495 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:44:03 -0500 (EST) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 13:32:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Cool stuff! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504143213.00820e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> About a month ago I picked up what I thought were a couple of HP-IB disk drives made by a compnay by the name of IEM of Ft. Collins Colorado. I searched the net for information about them but didn't find anything useful. I also posted message here asking about them but didn't get any replies. Last week I got one of my PCs up and running with a HP Hyper Viper card (a HP 9000 300 computer on a card) in it so I decided to use it to check out some of the HP-IB drives and such that have been piling up around here. I found a couple of sites that said what kind of MO disks were supposed to be used in the IEM MO drive but I didn't have the right ones so I stuck in a HP MO disk that I had laying round. It worked! The system thinks the drive is a HP 7935 with 404Mb capacity. Flip the disk over and you've got another 404Mb to play with. Not bad! The 2nd IEM drive turned out to be even stranger. In addition to the HP-IB port it has what looked like a SCSI port on the back. It has a LCD display on and it keeps saying off-line. There are also three buttons on it marked Select, Next and Previous. Pressing the buttons did nothing except make the display say "Next Pressed" etc. I finally turned it off then held down the Select button and turned it on and it came up in a demo mode. It says that it's a "Rewriteable Optical Jukebox Controller"!! It says that it's compatible with the HP 1000, 3000, 9000, etc etc and that it is CS-80 and plug and play with MPE, HPUX, Pascal BASIC, RTE, etc etc. It also says that it supports the C1700/C1701 HP Library System. So it's not a drive after all. (I never opened it up, I just assumed that it was!) That also explains why it has a SCSI connector on it. Anybody here have any experience with optical jukeboxs? I've done a lot of searching on the net for IEM but it appears that they're long gone. I found phone numbers for them but didn't get an answer on either one. I didn't find ANYTHING about the jukebox controler but found a couple of sites that gave cross references for disks that can be used in the MO drive. Of course I'm not using any of those disks but it's working! Joe From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 13:30:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: <016c01c431ec$330ab880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <016c01c431ec$330ab880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405041833.OAA08674@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > A "BREAK" in RS232 is a "signal" at least in the sense that most > receiving hardware can detect it and do "special things" upon > receipt. I am going from foggy memory, but as I recall, a break is a > long space or mark, longer than any valid word format timing would > normally indicate with no logic state changes inbetween. Yes. A break condition can be thought of as a very long start bit, extended for at least ten bit times (and usually a good deal longer) - I'm not sure what the exact spec is. Indeed, I've seen software documentation that speaks of generating breaks by changing the speed and sending 0x00 characters. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 13:37:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 22:16, Nico de Jong wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > > > > > Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I > > > just would like a box of unused blank disks. > > > Be very careful when ordering disks. > You must specificy whether they are single or double density, and single or > double sided.. Yeah, unlike 5.25", the placement of the index hole determines the number of sides. (OK physical reality determines that there are always two sides to a floppy, the index hole just tells the drive which it may use.) "You can insert a floppy disk into a drive eight different ways, but only one of them is interesting." -- GEORGE MORROW (paraphrase, sorry, corrections appreciated) From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 13:42:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 Government Edition? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503162822.00863e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040503162822.00863e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1083696131.2784.17.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 13:28, Joe R. wrote: > One of the things that I got was a > package of Lotus 123 version 2.01. It's marked as a Government Edition and > has an eagle of the disk labels. Anybody know what this is all about? Almost certainly just different software licensing. It's very common. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 13:44:25 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405032301.19584.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200405041112.08589.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405041846.OAA08773@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> 240V three-phase is [...neutral...] >> That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, >> something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. > No, it is a neutral, because it is grounded. On a three-phase delta, > you ground the center tap of one (only one!) of the phases. Clash of assumptions - I had been assuming that the three phases of three-phase were symmetric with respect to ground. I see that's not always so.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From paul at frixxon.co.uk Tue May 4 13:50:39 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Televideo 910 question In-Reply-To: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4097E5FF.8070208@frixxon.co.uk> Jay West wrote: > My, I'm just full of terminal questions... > > I have a Televideo 910.. maybe it's a 950 but I think it said 910 on it. They can't be confused -- a 910 looks like an ADM-3A (but squarer, not as cute) and a 950 looks like a VT100, but narrower. > When the terminal is just sitting there with stuff on the screen, no data is > being sent or received... it will suddenly flip to a "previous screen" all > by itself. I don't know if the terminal supports multiple pages of display > memory, but the symptom is as if it does support multiple display memory and > spontaneously all by itself it switches pages and I see data on the screen > that came by a while ago. I don't _think_ the 910 supports pages of memory, but the 950 does. If this is doing it without you pressing any keys, I'd suspect the termcap or terminfo entries not being matched to the terminal, though that would be odd as well, as the 950 doesn't emulate anything else. Both manuals are online. -- Paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 13:50:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Televideo 910 question References: <012901c431e7$50493d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4097E5FF.8070208@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <006301c43208$a36a5b00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Paul wrote... > They can't be confused -- a 910 looks like an ADM-3A (but squarer, not > as cute) and a 950 looks like a VT100, but narrower. Ok, it's a 950 then, cause it looks VERY much like a vt100, could be mistaken for one at first blush. > I don't _think_ the 910 supports pages of memory, but the 950 does. If > this is doing it without you pressing any keys, I'd suspect the termcap > or terminfo entries not being matched to the terminal, though that would > be odd as well, as the 950 doesn't emulate anything else. Both manuals > are online. It's definitely not getting any control/escape sequences from the host that are causing this, it's just doing it on it's own so I doubt termcap/terminfo has anything to do with it (specially since I'm running it on a TSB system, not unix) :) I'm using it as the system console, and I'm quite sure the host isn't sending any characters to it when it switches. Gotta be a hardware issue. So anyone have a spare main logic board for a 950? (I can hear Tony shuddering from here) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 14:11:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain Message-ID: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) Now I got hp2000.org and hp1000.org. Woohoo! Excuse my happy snoopy dance. Now if I can just find someone who knows html to create a webite for it.. ;) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wacarder at usit.net Tue May 4 14:26:30 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000601c4320d$b4ab8600$a0340f14@mcothran1> What kind of web site do you want? I can build you one in exchange for some of your surplus PDP-11 stuff. :-) - Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: hp domain > It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever > registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) > > Now I got hp2000.org and hp1000.org. Woohoo! Excuse my happy snoopy dance. > Now if I can just find someone who knows html to create a webite for it.. ;) > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 14:25:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Morrow (was: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: <20040504122402.T45270@newshell.lmi.net> Does anybody have a copy of "Quotations of Chairman Morrow"? On Tue, 4 May 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > "You can insert a floppy disk into a drive eight different ways, > but only one of them is interesting." > -- GEORGE MORROW > > (paraphrase, sorry, corrections appreciated) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 4 15:43:02 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <000601c4320d$b4ab8600$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <40980056.1040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Ashley Carder wrote: > What kind of web site do you want? I can build you one in exchange for some > of > your surplus PDP-11 stuff. :-) What do you think he plans to use as a server. :) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue May 4 16:01:27 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 Message-ID: Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? I've got one chip + 1 ROM that isn't either of the usual speech ROMs. This was supposed to have been pulled from a telephone answering machine. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue May 4 16:29:32 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <20040504175108.43063f2e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <409708C9.30304@nktelco.net> <20040504175108.43063f2e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1083706172.7378.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 08:51, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2004 04:14:44 +0100 (BST) > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > But in the case of DEC machines at least, the > > individual PSUs are single-phase units run between a phase and neutral > > > > (star connected). > The VAX6000 has a controled (?) six pulse rectifier that generates 400V > DC from three phase mains. This DC current is distributed to the > individual PSUs. And the KL-10 CPU's power supply is 3-phase as well just because of the current requirements (12v@490A). -- TTFN - Guy From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue May 4 17:01:34 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409812BE.1030207@gifford.co.uk> Davison, Lee wrote: > Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? Yes, I have one. It's dated December 1980. The speech chip is a 40-pin package with a 4MHz clock and fairly standard address and data lines. I can send you a photocopy of the data sheet if that'd help. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Tue May 4 17:29:56 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > You were probably running 3.0! > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the Enhanced functions... Bob Maxwell - still running 3.1 on 486s at home - From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 17:35:11 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <16535.44732.353000.982174@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <00fa01c431e2$e2db2880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16535.44732.353000.982174@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040504223511.GB25360@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 10:54:52AM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: > > Jay> I have a DEC VT102 terminal that I got some time ago from a > Jay> listmember. On the right of the keyboard where the numeric > Jay> keypad is, the keys don't match the color of the other keys on > Jay> the keyboard. The upper left key in the keypad is gold, and the > Jay> other keys on the keypad are different colors - red, blue, white > Jay> - and have editing words on them, I think words like "left, > Jay> copy, print", something like that. > > Those are DECword (a.k.a., WPS) keycaps. The gold key is the dead > giveaway -- WPS used that as a command prefix, similar to the way TECO > and Emacs use ESC. Yep... also EDT uses "PF1" a lot, but it was only called the "Gold Key" in WPS instructions. > You'd be more likely to find those keycaps on an LK201 style keyboard, > to go with a DECmate. Specifically a DECmate II or III(+). > Or they would appear on a box that looks like a VT52 -- an older > WPS box. WS-78, by another name, but it had an integral keyboard (being in a VT52 case). I can't say much about what it would look like; it's about the only PDP-8 that I'm missing. > But the VT100 series keyboard makes sense; if nothing else, that > could go with the WPS-Plus application that was part of one of KO's > stranger brainstorms. Not all that strange... WPS-Plus could import (via serial port if not through 8" floppies) from the PDP-8-version of WPS. The DECmate I is built into a VT100 housing and uses a standard VT100 keyboard. Because it was a dedicated terminal, they shipped with a keyboard as you describe, with word processing legends on many keys, and a Gold, Blue and Red key at the top of the number pad. > So you have something legit and somewhat unusual. Legit, yes... unusual, no. Sure, they made plenty more "plain" VT100 keyboards than WPS keyboards, but they did make a lot of WPS keyboards. As other people have pointed out, it's electrically identical to the more common variety. You'd only care about the legends if you wanted to run WPS on any one of the supported platforms. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 22:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.9 F (-63.3 C) Windchill -156.9 F (-105 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.7 kts Grid 010 Barometer 674.6 mb (10832. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 4 18:05:54 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC VT102 question In-Reply-To: <20040504223511.GB25360@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 04, 2004 10:35:11 PM Message-ID: <200405042305.i44N5soH004549@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Those are DECword (a.k.a., WPS) keycaps. The gold key is the dead > > giveaway -- WPS used that as a command prefix, similar to the way TECO > > and Emacs use ESC. > > Yep... also EDT uses "PF1" a lot, but it was only called the "Gold Key" > in WPS instructions. EDT calls it the "Gold Key" as well. For example on the AV-J756A-TC "EDT Editor Reference Card" I have sitting here on my desk it talks about the Gold Key on both the VT52 and VT100. Still true for EDT on OpenVMS 7.3-2. Zane From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue May 4 18:21:17 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer Message-ID: <200405042321.i44NLHhc005881@huey.classiccmp.org> >>If anyone has the original setup disk for the Portable III, I would love to >>get an image of it - the "generic" AT setup disks work in that you can >configure >>the drives and get it to boot, however Compaq apparently "rolled their own" >>checksum algorithm, as once configured with any of the generic disks, it >gets a >>CMOS Checksum error. > > Mike Haas has has the setup disk. I gave it to him along with the P-IIIs >that I had. The setup program should also be one several of the machines. >FWIW I once found a third party setup program that worked on them. I don't >remember the name of it but I'm pretty sure that it was put out by a >company in Clearwater Florida that was later bought out by Quarterdeck. I >may still have a copy of it or the Compaq setup program. I'll look and see. >One thing to be aware of is that only the very first few drive table enties >match that used by IBM so be carefull setting the hard drive type. > > Joe Thanks Joe, however the one I downloaded from other instructions posted in this thread appears to do the job, so no need to bother. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 18:05:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available In-Reply-To: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040504230554.GA27758@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 08:00:25AM -0500, Jay West wrote: > So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 > vt100's. If anyone wants me to scavenge parts (logic board, power supply > board, flyback, transformer, keycaps, crt tube, etc.) I would be happy to do > that. You wouldn't happen to have one of those cards that wedges in a slot in the VT100 logic board that has a couple of 10-pin DEC serial connectors and perhaps a cable? I've seen one once, but don't have one at the moment. My memory is that they were most useful with a VT103 to cleanly hook the ports on a DLV11J to the terminal port and the (optional) internal TU58s. Seeing as how I _have_ a VT103 at home, and have always wanted to throw a decent machine inside it (decent as in something with a hard drive and capable of running anything from RT-11 up through some flavor of UNIX), I think aquiring one of these serial adapter boards would be kinda handy... not essential, just handy. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.5 F (-63.1 C) Windchill -155.5 F (-104.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.3 kts Grid 010 Barometer 674.7 mb (10828. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue May 4 18:16:28 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> der Mouse wrote: > Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol > spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? I have two Summagraphics manuals, for the "Bit Pad One" and the "MM2101 and MM961 Data Tablets". They both list protocols, bit rates, DIP-switch setting and so on. Perhaps the Bit Pad One manual would be the one to look at? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 4 18:12:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available In-Reply-To: <20040504230554.GA27758@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 04, 2004 11:05:54 PM Message-ID: <200405042312.i44NCUwj004948@onyx.spiritone.com> > Seeing as how I _have_ a VT103 at home, and have always wanted to throw a > decent machine inside it (decent as in something with a hard drive and > capable of running anything from RT-11 up through some flavor of UNIX), > I think aquiring one of these serial adapter boards would be kinda handy... > not essential, just handy. > > -ethan My personal vote for stuffing inside of a VT100 terminal, is a Mini-ITX system! There is more than enough room where the card cage on a VT103 goes, to stick a Mini-ITX board and powersupply. The perfect Desktop PDP-10 and/or PDP-11! My only problem is I don't have room for one of my VT100's at home :^( Zane From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 4 18:18:43 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: ICL7660? Message-ID: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so I'd like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no negative comms voltage. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -160.3 F (-106.9 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 19.3 kts Grid 013 Barometer 674.8 mb (10824. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 17:59:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504185923.0083c2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Cool! Give me an account on it and I'll throw some of my HP 1000 pictures up there. Maybe you can mirror some of Al's HP 1000 docs there. Joe At 02:11 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever >registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) > >Now I got hp2000.org and hp1000.org. Woohoo! Excuse my happy snoopy dance. >Now if I can just find someone who knows html to create a webite for it.. ;) > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 18:00:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <40980056.1040902@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <000601c4320d$b4ab8600$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504190049.0083ec70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:43 PM 5/4/04 -0600, you wrote: >Ashley Carder wrote: >> What kind of web site do you want? I can build you one in exchange for some >> of >> your surplus PDP-11 stuff. :-) > >What do you think he plans to use as a server. :) It had better be an HP! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 18:29:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504192923.0083f760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:01 PM 5/4/04 +0100, you wrote: > >Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? No but it's online somewhere. I searched and found some interesting sites for these about 6 months ago. FWIW I have a HP-IB box that has one of these in it. I haven't figured it out entirely but it's cool as hell to send it a string over HP-Ib and listen to it talk. Joe > >I've got one chip + 1 ROM that isn't either of the usual speech >ROMs. This was supposed to have been pulled from a telephone >answering machine. > >Lee. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 17:51:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: wanted: (uk) C64 serial interface In-Reply-To: <1062.65.123.179.135.1083646637.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> from "ghldbrd@ccp.com" at May 3, 4 11:57:17 pm Message-ID: > > > Hi everyone, > > Can someone please help me find an RS232 serial interface converter for > > the 64? > > Cheers > > Stu > > > Good luck, they weren't too common. You might have to bash together some > 1488-1489 chips and a 555 negative voltage circuit to get what you need. I remember there being a circuit for this in 'Electronics -- The Maplin Magazine' years ago. IIRC, it was mostly discrete components, I don't remember there being any ICs. I can try to find the article, I should have it somewhere. I know I don't have the PCBm, though. This is a ciecuit to convert the bit-banged serial port on the user port connector to RS232 levels. I assume that's what you're looking for. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 17:54:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405040534.BAA05631@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 4, 4 01:19:51 am Message-ID: > > > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V phase-to-neutral > > on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral on the third one. > > That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, something > that has zero nominal voltage to ground. There is no such thing as ground!. If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased centre-tapped (as we're describing here) complelete isolated from everything else (including ground), then you can ground any point of it that you like -- including one of the phases or the centre-tap point. Of course once you've picked a point to connect to ground, then you can't ground any other point in the circuit as well. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:02:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 4, 4 04:51:16 am Message-ID: > > Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line protocol > spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, the MM1103)? [..] > This makes it all at least somewhat usable. But I'd really like to be > able to get samples back even when no buttons are pressed, whence my > question. > > The back does include a sticker saying, among other things, "BIT PAD > FORMAT", which may or may not mean anything useful. I did go The Sumagraphics Bit Pad 1 was a very common tablet at one time. From waht I remember, and I do have the manual _somewhere_ (this being a real manual which documents the data format and includes schematics), there were 2 output formats. One was ASCII, sending the position in decimal (that;s what you've got), the other was binary. Which you got was set by a DIP switch inside. Another switch turned on streaming mode (I think that's what they called it) which caused the thing to send out coordinates all the time, even without a puck button being pressed. I think that's the mode you're asking for, I would guess you need to find the right DIP switches inside, which are doubtless different to those on the Bit Pad 1 -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:05:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <409767C1.5080205@gmx.net> from "Gerold Pauler" at May 4, 4 11:52:01 am Message-ID: > > I have a SummaSketch MM1201 and the documentation for it. > The protocol doesn't match your description. [...] > Data Format: > MSB bits LSB > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 > > byte 1 1 PR 0 Sx Sy Fc Fb Fa > byte 2 0 X6 X5 X4 X3 X2 X1 X0 > byte 3 0 X13 X12 X11 X10 X9 X8 X7 > byte 4 0 Y6 Y5 Y4 Y3 Y2 Y1 Y0 > byte 5 0 Y13 Y12 Y11 Y10 Y9 Y8 Y7 That seems to be the 'bianry' protocol that I remember from the Bit Pad 1. I couldnt have reproduced it from memory, but seeing that reminded me of things like the 1st byte had the MSB set, all others had it cleared, and so on. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:10:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available In-Reply-To: <007b01c431d7$c48078a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at May 4, 4 08:00:25 am Message-ID: > In addition, I have a vt102 without the top or bottom case. It is in perfect > working order, clean, and no burnin with one major flaw. The metal band > around the front of the tube has slipped, meaning two of the L brackets that I would be very careful with that. This might be part of the implosion protection system (that sounds like a rimband to me, but it's not possible to be sure without seeing the CRT). I wouldn't want to use that CRT! > So far my plan is to keep the vt102 chassis as spares, and ditch the 2.1 Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same type of CRT). The swap is not hard. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:17:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504091607.0092e370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 4, 4 09:16:07 am Message-ID: > >Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial [...] > I agree that it could have been better. The 9845s are very unreliable. > I'm having to constantly reove, clean and reseat the cards in order to keep > them working. They shouldn't be any worse than any other HP machine unless they've been stored badly and the connectors have not been properly cleaned. They use much the same edge conenctors as everything else. > >All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, > >it's just a cable you have to add. > > IIRC the main circuit board has a connector but IIRC you have to add the > mating connector along with the cable. However I've been lucky and found a Yes. You get the pin header on the PCB (with a loopback test connector normally). You have to remove that loopback conenctor and plug in the cable. It's a standard 0.1" pitch header, so the mating connector is trivial to find. > fair number of modules with the cables already installed. However I think None of mine came with cables, but that was soon cured :-) [The watch chip ans the microcontroller] > That's interesting. I hadn't looked that close at the workings of the > time module and had no idea that it was built that way. I wonder why it > included all of that? Prsumably they needed the functionallity of the microcontroller when the machine was powered up for things like triggering external events, responding to the inputs, etc. But the micorcontroller, ROM, etc took too much power to be battery-backed so they had to add a lower-power clock for when the machine was turend off. A watch chip, suitably repackaged (it's in a 24 pin DIP IIRC) was the obvious choice at the time. > >electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel > >interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O > >cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I > >am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. > > So am I. I think I have one or two of them but that's all. If you have anything apart from the user-terminated one and the 085 floppy one, can you buzz out the connections and note down which links are fitted, please. I assume you have the 98032 user manual which explains the connections and links. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:25:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at May 4, 4 11:22:12 am Message-ID: > > > > On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > Ok, the post from Kevin reminds me of a VT220 question I've been wondering > > for some time. Is there a "BREAK" key on the vt220 terminal???? I can't find > > it, nothing is labelled "break". I'm not looking for a key combo that > > interrupts a specific host platform like ^C or ^P or something, I want to > > generate a real electrical "BREAK" signal via the keyboard. What is it? > > Well, two things. First, a 'real electrical "BREAK" signal' is not a > signal per se, but a momentary interruption in the actual signal current In a sense it is... On a current loop system you have 2 states. Current flowing in the loop (the idle sate), current not flowing in the loop. A break is sent by interrupting the loop (current not flowing) for a suitable period (200ms is common). On an RS232 device, the 2 states are voltages on the transmit data pin. A -ve voltage corresponds to the current-flowing state of the current loop, a +ve voltage corresponds to no current flowing in the current loop. The idle state is the -ve voltage, of course. A break consists of making the transmit data pin +ve for 200ms (or whatever). > port, and since there is no such thing as a real interrupting 'break' in > RS232 - it must be some other code... or, is it? The VT220 Programmer It is not a code in the sense that 8 bits are sent with start and stop bits, etc. In fact the normal way to detect a break at the receiving end on a modern system is to look for a framing error detected by the UART chip -- this means the received character didn't have valid stop bits, which is the case for a true line break. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 18:30:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 Government Edition? In-Reply-To: <1083696131.2784.17.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> from "Tom Jennings" at May 4, 4 11:42:11 am Message-ID: > > On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 13:28, Joe R. wrote: > > One of the things that I got was a > > package of Lotus 123 version 2.01. It's marked as a Government Edition and > > has an eagle of the disk labels. Anybody know what this is all about? > > Almost certainly just different software licensing. It's very common. I ssem to rememebr some issue about the fact that 1-2-3 was copy-protected (you had to insert disk 1 when you wanted to run it, even if you'd installed it on the hard disk), and that some Governement departments wouldn't use copy-protected software (good for them!). Maybe the 'Government Edition' was a copyable version or something. -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue May 4 18:41:41 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <20040504184141.6149fdce.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 4 May 2004 18:29:56 -0400 RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > > > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > > > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: > > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > You were probably running 3.0! > > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) > > IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, > just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks > or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall > the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board > that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the > Enhanced functions... > > Bob Maxwell > - still running 3.1 on 486s at home - I have noticed 'myths' and folklore about hardware requirements to run Microsoft stuff for decades now. I, for example, run Office 2000 quite adequately on an old 486 laptop that only has 32 megs of RAM. Something most people consider impossible. I ran Windows for a long, long time on my 8088 based system. I remember upgrading to a 286 so I could have 4 megs of RAM, and even later upgrading to a 386 so I could run '386 enhanced mode.' Windows 3.11 certainly required at least a 286, I think maybe even a 386, as it abandoned standard mode (if I recall correctly). Not that this Microsoft arcana is really that interesting.... I hope it's not ever going to be considered as interesting as the DEC and CP/M and what-not lore that preceedes it. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 18:49:25 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> > > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) On Tue, 4 May 2004 RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, > just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks > or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall > the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board > that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the > Enhanced functions... Windoze 3.1 will refuse to install unless there is SOME memory above 1M. It therefore can not be installed on an 8088 machine. Preliminary tests in August 1991 on the Beta version confirmed that it in addition to refusing to install unless there was SOME memory above 1M, it would not run if that memory were removed. It WOULD work on an AT that had less than 640K of main memory, but had some extended (512K main, 128K extended) There is a possibility that it might work with as little as 16K of extended, but it REFUSES to install without SOMETHING up there. From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 18:50:56 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:19 2005 Subject: vt220 question (whatsa line BREAK) In-Reply-To: References: <012301c431e6$d6a9ae20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1083714656.1872.30.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> BREAK is simply a space condition asserted onto a (generally RS-232) serial line for >> one character period. The line rests at mark (1), the start bit is a space (0) then there's 5 - 9 data periods, then one or two stop bits, which are just the line going back to the mark state. This is of course ASYNCHRONOUS data, eg. the receiver thinks it knows how long a character must be, and it knows a stop character is a mark, so if it's a space, it could be a so-called LINE BREAK. (It seems obvious (but I have nothing to back this up) that the source of this is LINE BREAK == broken line eg. loop current goes to zero because a wire fell off. tty mark == current flow == 1. tty space == no current flow == 0.) A lot of UART chips detect BREAK, and the old ones like the Giant AY5013? (sheesh, did I actually recall that or is it crap?) has a pin for it (and for parity, Rxready, etc) so it would be easy to tie it to CPU RESET (shudder). The chip spec will tell you what "BREAK" means to the chip, but I would guess it's some counter like 10 or 16 bit times of consecutive spaces. BREAK is away to assert another information-carrying state on a line. I remember being mystified by this stuff, and other magic like autobaud, back when it was all new to me. Now it all seems so simple, but now it's no longer useful :-) From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue May 4 18:53:57 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040504185357.20598de8.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Fred Cisin wrote: > > > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) > On Tue, 4 May 2004 RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > > IIRC, you DON'T need extended memory to run Win3.1 in "Standard" mode, > > just "386 Enhanced" mode. Of course, "Standard" couldn't switch tasks > > or do much of what people expect of Windoze now (except crash). I recall > > the day I came back from the Rochester (NY) Hamfest with a $5 RAM board > > that gave me a whole 1MB on top of my 640K and the chance to turn on the > > Enhanced functions... > > Windoze 3.1 will refuse to install unless there is SOME memory above 1M. > It therefore can not be installed on an 8088 machine. > > Preliminary tests in August 1991 on the Beta version confirmed that it > in addition to refusing to install unless there was SOME memory above 1M, > it would not run if that memory were removed. > It WOULD work on an AT that had less than 640K of main memory, but had > some extended (512K main, 128K extended) There is a possibility that it > might work with as little as 16K of extended, but it REFUSES to install > without SOMETHING up there. > > > > > Now I may have to install Windows 3.1 on my Kaypro 8088 system to confirm or debunk my belief. And that's a pity as it right now has CP/M-86 installed on it. But I can always reinstall CP/M-86 anytime (a complete retail box copy of Digital Research branded CP/M-86 sits on my shelf, by the Windows 1.03, DOS 1.0 and WordStar 3.3 complete boxes). From tomj at wps.com Tue May 4 18:56:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Morrow (was: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20040504122402.T45270@newshell.lmi.net> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> <001401c43004$a6bc7eb0$2201a8c0@finans> <1083695828.2784.15.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> <20040504122402.T45270@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1083715014.2107.32.camel@dhcp-248222.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 12:25, Fred Cisin wrote: > Does anybody have a copy of "Quotations of Chairman Morrow"? I wish! I never bought one, wehat a mistake. A nice mention of it here half way down: > http://www.ercb.com/feature/feature.0041.html From bill at timeguy.com Tue May 4 18:59:50 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer Message-ID: <20040504185451.L76262@outpost.timeguy.com> I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any information about it? The closest I came was http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 19:01:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040504184141.6149fdce.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> <20040504184141.6149fdce.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040504165053.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 4 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > I have noticed 'myths' and folklore about hardware requirements to run > Microsoft stuff for decades now. I, for example, run Office 2000 quite > adequately on an old 486 laptop that only has 32 megs of RAM. > Something most people consider impossible. I ran Windows for a long, > long time on my 8088 based system. Part of the problem is that MICROS~1 refused to differentiate, nor even understand, the difference between what was REQUIRED, v what was RECOMMENDED. For example, Windoze95 can and will work with a 386, but MICROS~1 denies it. (a 386SX is limited to 16M of RAM, which would probably be inadequate for Office) > Windows 3.11 certainly required at least a 286, I think maybe even a > 386, as it abandoned standard mode (if I recall correctly). Not that > this Microsoft arcana is really that interesting.... I hope it's not > ever going to be considered as interesting as the DEC and CP/M and > what-not lore that preceedes it. 3.10 also required a 286. Until a few years ago, I ran 3.10 on 286 machines and 3.00 on 8088s. 3.10 REFUSED to install on 8088, and REFUSED to install on 286 if there wasn't SOME RAM above 1M. I don't think that 3.11 needed a 386, but I don't know that for sure. For anybody running 3.10 or 3.11, go to the CALCULATOR and subtract 3.10 from 3.11 (to see how much difference they acknowledge?) BTW, it won't be on-topic for another 4 years, but,... Windoze98 refuses to install if there isn't a math coprocessor present! It has been speculated (and rejected) that that was in order to do floating point calculations for that silly animation when it copies a file. Bad news: in another year and change, Windoze95 will be on-topic! Would anybody want to buy a bunch of Windoze 3.10 BETA floppies? From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 19:04:28 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040504185357.20598de8.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F12892@INETMAIL> <20040504164414.T69587@newshell.lmi.net> <20040504185357.20598de8.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040504170205.L69587@newshell.lmi.net> > > Windoze 3.1 will refuse to install unless there is SOME memory above 1M. > > It therefore can not be installed on an 8088 machine. On Tue, 4 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > Now I may have to install Windows 3.1 on my Kaypro 8088 system to > confirm or debunk my belief. > > And that's a pity as it right now has CP/M-86 installed on it. But I > can always reinstall CP/M-86 anytime (a complete retail box copy of > Digital Research branded CP/M-86 sits on my shelf, by the Windows 1.03, > DOS 1.0 and WordStar 3.3 complete boxes). That WOULD be a pity. Do you have an extra hard-drive, so that you can experiment without messing up a GOOD configuration? From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 19:11:40 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > 240V three-phase is a delta setup, with the neutral half-tapped > > > between two phases, giving 240V phase-to-phase, 120V > > > phase-to-neutral on two of the phases, and 208V phase-to-neutral > > > on the third one. > > > > That doesn't sound much like what I think of as neutral - ie, > > something that has zero nominal voltage to ground. > > There is no such thing as ground!. Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode inserted into the earth. :) > If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased > centre-tapped (as we're describing here) complelete isolated from > everything else (including ground), then you can ground any point of > it that you like -- including one of the phases or the centre-tap > point. Of course once you've picked a point to connect to ground, > then you can't ground any other point in the circuit as well. Exactly. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 19:13:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040504091607.0092e370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504201310.008a7850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:17 AM 5/5/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >Incidentally, the 9845 has one bit of bad design, IMHO. It's not trivial > >[...] > >> I agree that it could have been better. The 9845s are very unreliable. >> I'm having to constantly reove, clean and reseat the cards in order to keep >> them working. > >They shouldn't be any worse than any other HP machine unless they've been >stored badly and the connectors have not been properly cleaned. They use >much the same edge conenctors as everything else. That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. > >> >All the clocks have the connector and logic for the external interface, >> >it's just a cable you have to add. >> >> IIRC the main circuit board has a connector but IIRC you have to add the >> mating connector along with the cable. However I've been lucky and found a > >Yes. You get the pin header on the PCB (with a loopback test connector >normally). You have to remove that loopback conenctor and plug in the >cable. It's a standard 0.1" pitch header, so the mating connector is >trivial to find. > >> fair number of modules with the cables already installed. However I think > >None of mine came with cables, but that was soon cured :-) > >[The watch chip ans the microcontroller] > >> That's interesting. I hadn't looked that close at the workings of the >> time module and had no idea that it was built that way. I wonder why it >> included all of that? > >Prsumably they needed the functionallity of the microcontroller when the >machine was powered up for things like triggering external events, >responding to the inputs, etc. But the micorcontroller, ROM, etc took too >much power to be battery-backed so they had to add a lower-power clock >for when the machine was turend off. A watch chip, suitably repackaged >(it's in a 24 pin DIP IIRC) was the obvious choice at the time. > >> >electrolyte less so (but they can generally be repaired). 16 bit parallel >> >interfaces are really common, but the versions with particular I/O >> >cables, other thnn the Option 085 one for the 8" floppy are much rarer. I >> >am still looking for wire- and jumper- lists for all the optional cables. >> >> So am I. I think I have one or two of them but that's all. > >If you have anything apart from the user-terminated one and the 085 >floppy one, can you buzz out the connections and note down which links >are fitted, please. I assume you have the 98032 user manual which >explains the connections and links. I'll look and see what i have. IIRC I used to have one that was modified for a PT Punch. Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 4 19:18:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <20040504185451.L76262@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Wow! Cool find! I have one for the Z-80 CPU and I know where there's one for the 6800. I have an old ProLog catalog and I think it shows the one for the 4040 but I don't think it gives any details. I've never tried to use mine and I know that the guy with the one for 6800 hasn't been able to make his work. I've been looking for manuals for any of them but haven't found one. I saw the mention of the one on Jim's site and I've written to him several times but he's never replied. Joe At 06:59 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > >I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an >electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that >it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks >like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and >build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any >information about it? The closest I came was >http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the >very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue May 4 15:21:43 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer In-Reply-To: <20040503220216.N30850@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040503225721.64dbb028.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040505001823.IBWG20937.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > 3.00 is the highest version of Windoze that will run with it. But > > > recommend switching to the Compaq EGA card for that. > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > > I ran Windows 3.1 on frighteningly underpowered machines for a long > > time. My 8088 XT Clone ran Windows 3.1 in several configurations: > > You were probably running 3.0! > 3.1 requires extended memory (286) > > 3.0 was the last one that could be run on 8088. > > 3.0 would work fine with CGA. 3.1 would work with CGA, but not right. > Ding! win 3.0 also can be run in MDA (hercules) mode. MUCH better resolution except only in two colors: black and amber, white or whatever. ihmo. By the way, IBM's EGA cards has less flicker than generic EGA cards I had. Cheers, Wizard From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 4 19:41:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available References: Message-ID: <016401c43239$b8147690$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Tony wrote... > Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll > fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same > type of CRT). The swap is not hard. That is exactly what I did, and why I have a vt102 without case, and an empty vt100 case :) Jay From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 4 22:26:24 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040504231638.0499a458@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Patrick Finnegan may have mentioned these words: >On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > There is no such thing as ground!. > >Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode >inserted into the earth. :) Hehehe... ;-) > > If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased > > centre-tapped (as we're describing here) complelete isolated from > > everything else (including ground), then you can ground any point of > > it that you like -- including one of the phases or the centre-tap > > point. Of course once you've picked a point to connect to ground, > > then you can't ground any other point in the circuit as well. > >Exactly. Along that vein: Sure you can! Can't say you'd like the results, but nothing's stopping you... ;-) [[ this from a guy who durned near burned down his home (and fried himself) this past Sunday, trying to hook up a new 30A drop to run my table saw (so I can hook up my 200A service) on *at least* a 70 year-old 60A blade-swich fusebox... while it's live. Dumbest design I've ever seen - they ran the neutral strip *inbetween* the 2 pre-fuse live poles of 220V 60Hz -- with only 1/2 inch (1.27cm) to spare on either side... and when the blade switch was open, you couldn't access the (now dead) hot lug terminals - the blade switch bar got in the way! Ugh! =:-P~ ]] Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 22:53:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at May 4, 4 07:11:40 pm Message-ID: > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode > inserted into the earth. :) And just what do I connect the other lead of my voltmeter to? :-) Incidentally, 'There is no such thing as groud' is one of Voanda's laws and has 2 meanings. The first is the one I am using there, that voltmeters have 2 leads, and it's arbitrary where you connect the 'refernce' lead to. The second is that any real connection has impedance, and that the 'ground' in a high-speed digital circuit may not be quite the same voltage everywhere. In fact 'ground bounce' -- mostly due to the inductance of the ground connection -- is a problem in laying out high speed circuitry. -tony From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Tue May 4 23:19:04 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) References: <200405050001.i4501Shf007124@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <003601c43258$19e363e0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> > That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are > nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. In 1979 I did a data-logging project at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in central Washington. We had 6 or 7 trailers that collected ground water measurement on HP 9825s (using the built in tape drive.) The measurement equipment was connected via HP-IB. The power was from a mobile generator. Every time the air conditioner started the line voltage would dip about 25 volts. This test ran for over a year with out a single failure. I was impressed. In the spring of 1980 the place was thick with grasshoppers. They would get into the equipment it you let them. After Mount St. Helens dumped a foot of ash on the place there wasn't a grasshopper to be found. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 4 23:28:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: vt220 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405050434.AAA22357@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...serial-line break condition...] > A break consists of making the transmit data pin +ve for 200ms (or > whatever). "Or whatever". I've used baud rates for which 200ms is less than one bit time (not often, and only for special purposes, but I've used 'em). Of course, I've not used them for purposes for which break conditions are very important. :) > In fact the normal way to detect a break at the receiving end on a > modern system is to look for a framing error detected by the UART > chip -- this means the received character didn't have valid stop > bits, which is the case for a true line break. A few (better) serial-interface chips detect and report a break condition as distinct from other framing errors. (Some of them consider "break" as a subclass of "framing error" - I mean that they allow the host to tell the difference between a break and a non-break framing error.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 4 23:50:41 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> Tony Duell declared on Tuesday 04 May 2004 10:53 pm: > > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long > > electrode inserted into the earth. :) > > And just what do I connect the other lead of my voltmeter to? :-) Ground. :) > Incidentally, 'There is no such thing as groud' is one of Voanda's > laws and has 2 meanings. The first is the one I am using there, that > voltmeters have 2 leads, and it's arbitrary where you connect the > 'refernce' lead to. I was speaking in an electrician's sense, not as in an engineer's sense of the word. > The second is that any real connection has impedance, and that the > 'ground' in a high-speed digital circuit may not be quite the same > voltage everywhere. In fact 'ground bounce' -- mostly due to the > inductance of the ground connection -- is a problem in laying out high > speed circuitry. That doesn't apply as much to AC power wiring, though you still have to watch for "ground loops" where there's a potential between two different grounding points due to resistance, which will be carried over signal cables. Still, that's not something the electrician usually cares about. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 01:17:58 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405050631.CAA23292@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > There is no such thing as ground!. Actually, there is: any sufficiently large object containing equal amounts of positive and negative charge will do. (The size matters because in most respects the object in question must be at least potentially able to accept a substantial amount of electric charge.) For the voltages and currents involved in this discussion, the only available object that even approximates that is the earth, but that doesn't invalidate the basic point. When working with very high voltages and low currents (which in my experience has been almost entirely gedanken), I have to keep reminding myself of that: there is potential current flow whenever there is a difference in overall charge, regardless of how that difference got there. For most electronic and electrical purposes, the capacitances involved are small enough compared to the voltages and currents involved that we can pretend that an isolated circuit is unreferenced to ground, but that's merely a handy approximation, not a Truth. Of course, this doesn't invalidate the point that given decent transformer insulation, you can ground any single point you please of a three-phase (whether delta or wye, actually - but grounding other than the central point of a wye would be Weird). My initial objection was based on unstated (and incorrect) assumptions.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 5 02:31:50 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Re: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin" (May 4, 19:11) References: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 4, 19:11, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long electrode > inserted into the earth. :) Measured with respect to what? That wire dangling from your kite, Mr Franklin? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 02:34:34 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [I wrote] >> Does anyone know, or know of a reference to, the serial-line >> protocol spoken by Summagraphics tablet digitizers (specifically, >> the MM1103)? [John Honniball replied] > I have two Summagraphics manuals, for the "Bit Pad One" and the > "MM2101 and MM961 Data Tablets". They both list protocols, bit > rates, DIP-switch setting and so on. > Perhaps the Bit Pad One manual would be the one to look at? Maybe. But see below. [ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell), responding to the same message of mine] > The Sumagraphics Bit Pad 1 was a very common tablet at one time. > From waht I remember, and I do have the manual _somewhere_ (this > being a real manual which documents the data format and includes > schematics), there were 2 output formats. [...] Which you got was > set by a DIP switch inside. > Another switch turned on streaming mode [...]. I think that's the > mode you're asking for, Right. > I would guess you need to find the right DIP switches inside, which > are doubtless different to those on the Bit Pad 1 Quite likely. I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. The settings currently are thus, with bits numbered according to the markings on the switch banks and 1=on, 0=off: 12345678 <--bit numbers SW1 11110110 SW2 11000010 SW3 10110110 There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 03:04:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040505080454.GC8425@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 08:31:50AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 4, 19:11, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 17:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > There is no such thing as ground!. > > > > Sure, there is. It's the voltage potential present on a long > > electrode inserted into the earth. :) > > Measured with respect to what? That wire dangling from your kite, Mr > Franklin? :-) Well from here... a kite would be a better ground than a two-mile-thick ice cube! I just heard a story this week about an astronomer here that is a definite "head in the stars" type... some of his collegues asked him to run a ground wire around the lab (our stuff, in the next building over, is all grounded with 4"-wide copper ribbon). They came back from lunch, and all the cabinets were connected with heavy gauge copper wire, which went through a hole in the wall and stuck into the snow outside. Not so effective... AFAIK, our ground is more or less referenced to the floor of the power plant, and carried throughout the station in its infrastructure. I expect that for outlying buildings, like where my experiment lives, they have to run a ground wire out along with the 4160V feeder line. I hope it's big! :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 08:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82 F (-63.3 C) Windchill -154.8 F (-103.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.8 kts Grid 006 Barometer 675 mb (10816. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed May 5 03:04:12 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: ICL7660? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 May 2004 23:18:43 -0000." <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ethan Dicks said: > > My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so I'd > like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage > supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms > being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no > negative comms voltage. > http://www.maplin.co.uk/ part no. NM18U in the UK... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 07:03:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: ICL7660? In-Reply-To: <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20040505120331.GB2043@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 09:04:12AM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > Ethan Dicks said: > > My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so I'd > > like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage > > supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms > > being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no > > negative comms voltage. > > > > http://www.maplin.co.uk/ part no. NM18U in the UK... OK... thanks to one and all for tips... I will probably go with Digikey or the supplier in Christchurch (since if I order from them, it will arrive on one of the first flights in October). I do need the thru-hole variety for this 22-year-old board. The input voltage shouldn't matter - it's a +5V- only design anyway. I have no +12V or similar to feed it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 12:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.3 F (-62.9 C) Windchill -149.9 F (-101.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.5 kts Grid 021 Barometer 675.2 mb (10808. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed May 5 07:32:47 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: ICL7660? In-Reply-To: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405050532470590.7A66D5A6@192.168.42.129> Hi, Ethan, Mouser has these in abundance. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=239746&e_categoryid=272&e_pcodeid=57011 Happy hunting. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 04-May-04 at 23:18 Ethan Dicks wrote: >My ability to search the web is hampered by poor sat comms right now, so >I'd >like to ask if anyone knows where to purchase an ICL7660 negative voltage >supply chip? My Basicon MC-1N is apparently missing it, but RS-232 comms >being as loose as they are, I can still talk to it even though there's no >negative comms voltage. > >Thanks for any pointers, > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-May-2004 23:10 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -160.3 F >(-106.9 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 19.3 kts Grid 013 Barometer 674.8 mb (10824. >ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 5 08:22:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <003601c43258$19e363e0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> References: <200405050001.i4501Shf007124@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> My favorite story is about the badly beat up 9825 that I found in a large metal dumpster full of water at Patrick AFB. It sat outside for at least six months before they auctioned off the entire load to a scrap metal dealer. I went over to his place a few days later and bought the 9825 for $3 for the plastic parts. It had been dropped and the case was split open. It had been hit with something that ripped half the keys off of it and it had been out in the weather and sitting partially submerged in water for at least six months. I poured the water out of it, brought it home and dried it out. I was just going to use if for mechanical parts but I decided to try it out just for kicks. Imagine my surprise when it worked! I've probably found 30 or more surplus 9825s over the years and I don't think I ever found one that didn't work. Joe At 09:19 PM 5/4/04 -0700, Michael Holley wrote: >> That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are >> nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. > >In 1979 I did a data-logging project at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in >central Washington. We had 6 or 7 trailers that collected ground water >measurement on HP 9825s (using the built in tape drive.) The measurement >equipment was connected via HP-IB. > >The power was from a mobile generator. Every time the air conditioner >started the line voltage would dip about 25 volts. > >This test ran for over a year with out a single failure. I was impressed. > >In the spring of 1980 the place was thick with grasshoppers. They would get >into the equipment it you let them. After Mount St. Helens dumped a foot of >ash on the place there wasn't a grasshopper to be found. > >Michael Holley >www.swtpc.com/mholley > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 5 09:08:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 07:34, der Mouse wrote: > I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three > banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. Yikes! That's a lot of combinations to run through! :-) I was in the same situation with the old Numonics tablet that I was given - no documentation anywhere and the standard mode it was configured for didn't make much sense and wouldn't work with any drivers. Luckily I only have 8 switches to run through though... I found something that happened to work with one of the later Numonics drivers. > There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've > bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and > three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is > handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no > idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various > things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. Well I suppose they run as a SBC, taking input from the pad and converting to the necessary protocol before spitting it down the serial line. > There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function > (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 reset, to allow an engineer to reset the pad without killing the power all the time? My Numonics tablet has a reset on the back - I'm not sure why the user would ever need to do a reset though. > and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? cheers Jules From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed May 5 09:15:08 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> I haven't really been following this thread from the start, and I don't know what model tablet you have, but Googling for "Summagraphics tablet switch settings" had a bunch of hits, of which this one looks promising: http://www.surpac.com/refman/default/config/f.htm Is that of any help? It lists the names and functions of 3 banks of 8 switches. --jc Jules Richardson wrote: >On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 07:34, der Mouse wrote: > > >>I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three >>banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. >> >> > >Yikes! That's a lot of combinations to run through! :-) > >I was in the same situation with the old Numonics tablet that I was >given - no documentation anywhere and the standard mode it was >configured for didn't make much sense and wouldn't work with any >drivers. Luckily I only have 8 switches to run through though... I found >something that happened to work with one of the later Numonics drivers. > > > >>There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've >>bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and >>three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is >>handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no >>idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various >>things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. >> >> > >Well I suppose they run as a SBC, taking input from the pad and >converting to the necessary protocol before spitting it down the serial >line. > > > >>There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function >>(inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 >> >> > >reset, to allow an engineer to reset the pad without killing the power >all the time? My Numonics tablet has a reset on the back - I'm not sure >why the user would ever need to do a reset though. > > > >> and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. >> >> > >My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? > >cheers > >Jules > > > From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed May 5 09:13:45 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Restoring a Macintosh Backup Message-ID: I have a tape that contains the backup of a Macintosh 8100. I have tried to use Retrospect to restore it but it doesn't recognize the tape as a valid format. I did a raw restore and the header does mention "Macintosh-BU1" and also "BackUp- 01.74" The tape was made in 1995. Anyone know what program I can use on my Mac to restore this tape? -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From charlesb at otcgaming.net Wed May 5 09:52:05 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Fwd: compaq's portable computer References: <200405040000.i44001dl064690@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040503230958.27581cd3.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005001c432b0$89eb0410$0100a8c0@thunder> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stevens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:09 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: compaq's portable computer > On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:00:01 -0500 (CDT) > Dave Dunfield wrote: > > I'm pretty sure the Compaq Portable III that I sold in February was an 8088 machine. Orange plasma display, small lunchbox configuration, etc. I just went back to the sales-photos for it and indeed it was badged a III. It had the standard 640K of RAM and no expansion slots. Did they possibly make this machine with different processor configurations? Is it possible yours has a 3rd party processor upgrade? I definitely didn't have to run a Setup program to get it going and it had sat idle for a long time before I powered it up, so I'm fairly certain the one I had didn't have a setup battery or CMOS setup storage. yea.. I have got apotrable 1 (the big suitcase one with mini monnitor etc) and also a portable 3 (somewhere). The Portable III is inded a small lunchbox sized beast with an orange plasma screeen and 5.25 drive on the one side. by default they didnt have any expansion slots, however u could buy a box thaat clipped onto the back to give you an 8 bit isa slot. it's an 8088, 640k ram (max 1 meg istr), not sure about base configs, but i know u could get a 286 upgrade but w/o the co-pro. Charles "Thunder" Blackburn The Team Sportscast Network http://www.tsncentral.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 5 10:34:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should take a look at this Joe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 5 11:38:18 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin References: <200405041911.40318.pat@computer-refuge.org> <10405050831.ZM2834@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040505080454.GC8425@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <4099187A.6090807@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > AFAIK, our ground is more or less referenced to the floor of the power plant, > and carried throughout the station in its infrastructure. I expect that for > outlying buildings, like where my experiment lives, they have to run a ground > wire out along with the 4160V feeder line. I hope it's big! :-) Now are we talking ground here or the power for your 'hobby'? Good luck with finding ground, electrical or real earth. :) > -ethan Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 5 12:10:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: The Network Eye for MS DOS network? Message-ID: There used to be a program called The Network Eye which let you remotely control one computer from another over a LANtastic network. Does such a program exist for MS-DOS over TCP/IP? Preferably, the client would be Windows based. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bert at brothom.nl Wed May 5 13:27:58 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: The Network Eye for MS DOS network? References: Message-ID: <4099322E.B43D6CD2@brothom.nl> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > There used to be a program called The Network Eye which let you remotely > control one computer from another over a LANtastic network. > > Does such a program exist for MS-DOS over TCP/IP? Preferably, the client > would be Windows based. > I believe NetOp can do that. And yes, there is a Windows "guest". Checkout www.netop.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 13:00:30 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> ["J.C. Wren" ] > [...] I don't know what model tablet you have, I have an MM1103. > but Googling for "Summagraphics tablet switch settings" had a bunch > of hits, of which this one looks promising: > http://www.surpac.com/refman/default/config/f.htm > Is that of any help? It lists the names and functions of 3 banks of > 8 switches. ...for five different tablets, none of which are Summagraphics. The only place lynx finds the Summagraphics name in that page is the emulation setting for ACECAD tablets. Good thought, though, and thanks for checking. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 5 13:10:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200405051813.OAA25695@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, >> three banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. > Yikes! That's a lot of combinations to run through! :-) Well, yes. :-) The pc board is only two-layer, though, just front and back. I may try to trace where the switches connect to to see which ones are plausible guesses for what I want. >> There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function >> (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 > reset, to allow an engineer to reset the pad without killing the > power all the time? That would be my guess; it is placed right next to the chip I suspect of being the CPU. >> and a six-contact card-edge connector of equally obscure function. > My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? It could be, but the puck is connected with an RJ-11-style plug and jack, which jack could equally well be used for a stylus if the interface is sufficiently compatible. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Wed May 5 14:08:20 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> Look at http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/Summafiles/Bit%20Pad%202%20Tech%20Ref.pdf on their website www.gtcocalcomp.com I also found new drivers for my MM1201 This should be the right docu (DIP switches are on the last two pages 60,61) ;-) Gerold der Mouse schrieb: > ["J.C. Wren" ] > >>[...] I don't know what model tablet you have, > > > I have an MM1103. > > >>but Googling for "Summagraphics tablet switch settings" had a bunch >>of hits, of which this one looks promising: > > >>http://www.surpac.com/refman/default/config/f.htm > > >>Is that of any help? It lists the names and functions of 3 banks of >>8 switches. > > > ...for five different tablets, none of which are Summagraphics. The > only place lynx finds the Summagraphics name in that page is the > emulation setting for ACECAD tablets. > > Good thought, though, and thanks for checking. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > -- Gerold Pauler Tel.: +49 30 75 70 42 78 Katharinenstr. 7 Mobil: +49 173 23 49 440 10711 Berlin eMail: gerold.pauler@gmx.net From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:06:39 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and keeping them running? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should > take a look at this > > > Joe From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:16:48 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to examine and clean it safely. >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and >keeping them running? In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack which has special "data" written at special locations. That together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam which is used at various locations in the drive, including in the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution for this problem yet... --tom >Ashley > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should > > take a look at this > > > > > > Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed May 5 14:16:51 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16537.15779.279473.223472@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? Ashley> I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 Ashley> drives. Does anyone here have experience maintaining / Ashley> aligning RK05 drives and keeping them running? It looks vaguely familiar. I'm not sure anymore if I've seen this in use. I *have* seen someone clean an IBM 1311 pack, which is somewhat lower density but reasonably similar. RK05 and friends have head clearance such that, if you use high quality materials, you can get away with using pads and solvent for cleaning a pack. Don't if you don't have to, but if you have to, it should work. Alignment is done with a pack that has a special pattern written on it with a high-accuracy writer. I think it's somewhat like a servo pattern as you'd find it on newer drives (RK05 doesn't have that kind of servo). You use an oscilloscope to see if the signal on the read head is what it's supposed to be, or if not, you tweak the head position accordingly. The manuals describe all this nicely if you can find them (try bitsavers.org). I haven't personally done it but I've seen it often enough. paul From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:22:31 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > examine and clean it safely. > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > >keeping them running? > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > for this problem yet... > > --tom > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems should > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > Joe > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:31:05 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. --tom >Ashley > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > > >keeping them running? > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > for this problem yet... > > > > --tom > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Joe R." > > >To: > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems >should > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:32:21 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001f01c432d7$b028d540$a0340f14@mcothran1> What kind of system do you use it in? -- A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > --tom > > > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > >should > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:33:48 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <002801c432d7$e4170d90$a0340f14@mcothran1> Another question.... I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the chances that it can still be read? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > --tom > > > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > >should > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:39:14 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:20 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001f01c432d7$b028d540$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143531.034c5228@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:32 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >What kind of system do you use it in? I have a number of systems (11/70, 11/45, 11/35, 11/34, 11/10, etc.), all of which it can be plugged into, and I have a couple of RK11-D controllers. It is currently connected to the 11/45, but the CPU failed a while back and I haven't had time to repair it yet. --tom >-- A > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives >and > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > >To: > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > > >should > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:42:34 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <002801c432d7$e4170d90$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Another question.... > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the >chances that it can still be read? I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... --tom >Ashley > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives >and > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > >To: > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > > >should > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:46:24 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I've just carried it around with me whenever I've moved (about 10 times) and it usually has just sat quietly on a shelf. A friend of mine had it for a year or so, but I had to rescue it when he was talking about turning it into a wall clock. It has many programs that my friends and I wrote during our college days. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >Another question.... > > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > >chances that it can still be read? > > I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the > chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... > > --tom > > > >Ashley > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >Posts" > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives > >and > > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > > >To: > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive systems > > > >should > > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed May 5 14:47:02 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: Once upon a time I had a program for the Mac, older program (System 7 era) that allowed you to "tunnel" your keyboard and mouse to another mac. The way it worked was, you would move the mouse to the top corner of the screen, above the Apple menu, and "push" thru to another screen. It would then move your keyboard and mouse control to another Mac. Basically, it worked as a software KV switch (no M as it required you to have a monitor on the other Mac). I've been unsuccessful in turning up a copy of this program in my archives. Partly hampered by not remembering what it was called. Does anyone remember what this software was, and do they have a copy they can send me? -chris From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 5 14:44:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 2004, Tom Uban wrote: >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? I got 4 of them in January... they look very clean, and seem to be in good condition, but we'll see once we open them up. The foam is probably gone, so that would have to be replaced. --f From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 5 14:54:50 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505145431.036a5920@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:46 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I've just carried it around with me whenever I've moved (about 10 times) >and it usually has just sat quietly on a shelf. A friend of mine had it for >a year or >so, but I had to rescue it when he was talking about turning it into a wall >clock. >It has many programs that my friends and I wrote during our college days. What OS were they written under? --tom >Ashley > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:42 PM >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >Another question.... > > > > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > > >chances that it can still be read? > > > > I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the > > chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > >Posts" > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 >drives > > >and > > > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive >systems > > > > >should > > > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 14:54:44 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: Message-ID: <001301c432da$d09bd770$a0340f14@mcothran1> I am getting at least one, probably two in the next few weeks. Perhaps we can have a communal "revive the RK05 drives" exercise here. I'm not sure what kind of condition these drives are in, but they look fairly clean in the pictures. - A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > On Wed, 5 May 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > I got 4 of them in January... they look very clean, and seem to be > in good condition, but we'll see once we open them up. The foam is > probably gone, so that would have to be replaced. > > --f > From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 5 14:54:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix CP-1160/DEC something In-Reply-To: <16535.43230.576000.770768@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: Paul wrote: > No, that doesn't look at all like an 11/60. Those have a narrow > console with pushbuttons, not the classic lights and switches style as > shown in the CP-1160 photo. Someone said it's an 11/35, and that > seems about right. I didnt look at the picture, sorry. My 11/34's are having a Tek label of CP1120, which doesnt make sense either :) --f From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 5 15:03:30 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505145431.036a5920@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <002401c432dc$0a482270$a0340f14@mcothran1> Basic Plus on RSTS/E, either V6B or V6C, on a PDP 11/40. - Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > At 03:46 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >I've just carried it around with me whenever I've moved (about 10 times) > >and it usually has just sat quietly on a shelf. A friend of mine had it for > >a year or > >so, but I had to rescue it when he was talking about turning it into a wall > >clock. > >It has many programs that my friends and I wrote during our college days. > > What OS were they written under? > > --tom > > >Ashley > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:42 PM > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > At 03:33 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > >Another question.... > > > > > > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > > > >chances that it can still be read? > > > > > > I would think that if it has been stored in a reasonable fashion, the > > > chances are quite good. It should of course be cleaned first... > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >Posts" > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:31 PM > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > > > > > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > > > > > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Tom Uban" > > > > > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > > >; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > > >Posts" > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:16 PM > > > > > >Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know anything about this "Inspector / Cleaner"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The inspector cleaner allows you to hold the raw platter and to > > > > > > > examine and clean it safely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I've also seen mention of an "alignment pack" for RK05 drives. > > > > > > > >Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 > >drives > > > >and > > > > > > > >keeping them running? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problems with maintaining RK05s is that the foam > > > > > > > which is used at various locations in the drive, including in > > > > > > > the air path, disintegrates and turns to dust and/or goo. If > > > > > > > you carefully clean out all of the old foam/dust/goo, you can > > > > > > > fairly easily replace it with new foam purchased from a fabric > > > > > > > store (or similar). A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > > > for this problem yet... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > >From: "Joe R." > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:34 AM > > > > > > > >Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of you that are interested in the old DEC disk drive > >systems > > > > > >should > > > > > > > > > take a look at this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 5 16:32:41 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner" (May 5, 14:31) References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505143003.034a6eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10405052232.ZM3349@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 5, 14:31, Tom Uban wrote: > At 03:22 PM 5/5/2004 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? > >Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? > > Yes, I have one which I brought back from the dead by replacing > the foam, NiCd batteries, debugging the boards, etc. I had two on an 11/40 that hadn't been used in between 10 and 15 years. They needed the dust and disintegrated foam vacuumed out, the NiCads replaced, some replacement foam (some was draught sealing strip from the hardware shop, some was foam sheet from an upholsery shop) and a bit of TLC (soapy water and elbow grease for the casing, reseating the boards, etc) but they worked fine. The packs also were fine; some had been kept in ziploc covers, some not. The drives are now on an 11/34 which will probably end up running RSTS (the 11/40 used to run RT-11). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 16:41:25 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505144140.0364de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> <000801c432d9$a68395f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040505214125.GB18799@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 03:33:PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > >I have an RK05 pack that has not been mounted since 1978. What are the > > >chances that it can still be read? Heh... I have one of those too, but it's an RK05F-16. After years of looking, I recently aquired an RK8E interface, but I have no RK05F drives, just several RK05Js in various states of foam decomposition (one was used recently by me and by Jerome Fine, but most of the others haven't been spun up in a number of years). Earlier, Tom writes: > > > > > > In order to properly align an RK05 you need an alignment pack > > > > > > which has special "data" written at special locations. That > > > > > > together with a two channel o-scope, the manual and a few basic > > > > > > tools will allow you to adjust the in/out position of each head. I have done RK05 alignment with ordinary data packs, but I wouldn't guarantee that the drive would then pass the "pack interchange diagnostic" where you take two (or more) drives, write on one, then move the pack to the other to read. The drives I aligned (for my employer, not my own), worked fine with everything we had in the shop, but I was never confident that they were aligned as well as they would have been if I'd had an alignment pack. > > > > > > A more difficult problem is that the molded > > > > > > plastic/rubber tube which ducts the air into the disk area also > > > > > > disintegrates over time. I haven't had to come up with a solution > > > > > > for this problem yet... If you ever come up with a solution, I'd love to hear about it. Fortunately, I still have a few new-in-bag absolute filters (for both RK05 and RL01/RL02), but those are a scarce resource as well. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 21:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.3 F (-62.9 C) Windchill -130.8 F (-90.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 043 Barometer 675.3 mb (10804. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 5 16:53:04 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <3.0.6.32.20040505113400.0083a490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040505141108.035c6ba0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040505215304.GC18799@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 03:22:31PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Several, though as I mentioned earlier, only one has been used in the past couple of years. I have an as-yet-unused-by-me RK8E and one RK05J-16 pack, and a couple of RK11s (one RKV11D, a couple of RK11Ds, and an RK11C) each with at least one drive and stacks of RK05J-12s, mostly with copies of RT-11 and ancient university data sets on them. > Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? More or less - new foam, new filter, new NiCd batteries, and a through cleaning. I did get to process two *pallets* of drives for a former employer (c. 1988) and recover as many working drives from the pile as possible. I think my boss told me that four drives would be considered good work, and I gave him six. Besides head crashes (these were as-is drives), the most common actual failure mode was burned-out lightbulbs in the optical positioner feedback circuit. It was easy enough to check them... open up the service panels and see if there's a light on the glass scale by the heads... no light == bad. They were some bizarre bulb assembly that we didn't bother trying to find replacements for - we just robbed them from drives that were in worse shape (dents, smashed doors, etc). If you only have one "dead" drive, I'm not sure how you'd get replacement parts, but my experience is that unless you know the drive has had something catastrophic happen to it, it probably only needs a severe cleaning and a PM on the batteries, foam, etc. That having been said, though, I wouldn't mount a critical pack first. Always mount a scratch monkey! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-May-2004 21:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -122 F (-85.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 050 Barometer 675.4 mb (10800. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tomj at wps.com Wed May 5 17:23:50 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083795830.1980.70.camel@dhcp-250068.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 15:54, Tony Duell wrote: > If you've generated a 3-phase supply with one of the phased centre-tapped > ... then you can ground any point of it that you like --... Of course once you've > picked a point to connect to ground, then you can't ground any other point > in the circuit as well. I disagree. I've seen it done. It may not be very useful, but it can be done. Never underestimate the power of stupidity! From tomj at wps.com Wed May 5 17:39:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1083796787.2685.78.camel@dhcp-250068.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 21:50, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > That doesn't apply as much to AC power wiring, though you still have to > watch for "ground loops" where there's a potential between two different > grounding points due to resistance, which will be carried over signal > cables. Still, that's not something the electrician usually cares > about. Apocryphal tales to terrorize know-nothings: To someone you see coil up a long extention cord and plug the ends together for convenient storage: "STOP! Don't do that! The electricity will build up in the loop and later shock you when you unplug it!", proceed to show them how to discharge (sic) the cord by wailing the coiled cord on the ground a dozen times. Point out (non-existent) stains on the floor under electrical outlets, and the real reason behind those "baby-proofing" snap-in plastic plugs that push into unused outlets -- they keep the electricity from leaking out and staining the floor. Point out that ordinary electrical tape over the unused holes will do in a pinch. Then there's always the "AC battery" which you send neophytes out to look for, but that tale is older than my now-deceased grandfather, though I suppose it happened at least once. (Wait, we had all those power cube arguments...) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:30:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: VAX Cluster on Ebay in OK (was Re: More DEC equipment spottedin In-Reply-To: <200405042350.42197.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at May 4, 4 11:50:41 pm Message-ID: > > Incidentally, 'There is no such thing as groud' is one of Voanda's > > laws and has 2 meanings. The first is the one I am using there, that > > voltmeters have 2 leads, and it's arbitrary where you connect the > > 'refernce' lead to. > > I was speaking in an electrician's sense, not as in an engineer's sense > of the word. What's the difference? Even when working on power-distribution systems, voltmeters have 2 leads. And the output of a transformer is isolated from ground, so you can connect any single point in the circuit to the ground rod, and call it your reference point. Sure it's conventional to use the start point of a star (Y) 3-phase supply or the centre-tap of a centre-tapped supply, or whatever, but you're not required to do so. You may have guessed I have little time for 'electricians' who follow the rules blindly and have no real clue as to what they're doing or why. Actaully, I have little time for anyone who follows the rules blindly without a clue as to why! > > > The second is that any real connection has impedance, and that the > > 'ground' in a high-speed digital circuit may not be quite the same > > voltage everywhere. In fact 'ground bounce' -- mostly due to the > > inductance of the ground connection -- is a problem in laying out high > > speed circuitry. > > That doesn't apply as much to AC power wiring, though you still have to Ere, watch out. RF interferece can, and does, pass through common earth wires in some cases. The impedance to ground can be signfiicant. And it certainly matters on the classic computers we all know and love! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:34:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 5, 4 03:34:34 am Message-ID: > > I have the thing opened up right now. There are 24 DIP switches, three > banks of eight, labeled SW1 through SW3. The settings currently are Eeek! > thus, with bits numbered according to the markings on the switch banks > and 1=on, 0=off: > > 12345678 <--bit numbers > SW1 11110110 > SW2 11000010 > SW3 10110110 > > There is a good deal of "small" logic, CMOS and TTL in the cases I've > bothered to look at the numbers on, a bunch of discrete components, and > three socketed "big chips": a 2732 UVEPROM with a sticker on which is > handwritten "1103" and "7.9"; a 74C154 (why this is socketed I have no > idea); and something that looks like a CPU, on which is printed various > things in various ways; I think it's probably an 8031. Possibly. The Bit Pad 1 used an 8035. And, IIRC a 2708 EPROM. It was certainly a 3-rail thing, since one the problems with one of my BP1s was that the PSU stopped giving the -5V output, the EPROM couldn't be read, and the microcontroler did nothing useful... > > There's also a momentary pushbutton switch of no obvious function > (inaccessible with the cover on) labeled SW4 and a six-contact The BP1 has a reset button, but that's accessible without dismantling the thing. > card-edge connector of equally obscure function. No idea. PSU input? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:39:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 5, 4 09:22:03 am Message-ID: > try it out just for kicks. Imagine my surprise when it worked! I've > probably found 30 or more surplus 9825s over the years and I don't think I > ever found one that didn't work. The 9825 (and for that matter the 9815 which has much the same design of PSU) does have one problem, though. The 5V PSU is a switching regulator, and there's no corwbar fitted (no idea why not, the older 9810 and 9830 have crowbars on all the important PSU outputs, so HP certainly knew about such things). If the chopper transistor shorts, then 5V line will leap to about 25V. Needless to say this wipes out the entire set of ICs... The 9845, with a mains-input SMPSU (not the low-voltage non-isolated switching regulator of the 9815 and 9825) doesn't suffer from this. I must design a crowbar and add it to my machines sometime. Hopefully before the transistor fails. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:46:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at May 5, 4 02:08:29 pm Message-ID: > Well I suppose they run as a SBC, taking input from the pad and > converting to the necessary protocol before spitting it down the serial > line. The 'pad' has no intellegence of its own, and does nothing without the microcontroller. Basically, the microcontroller triggers a thyristor (SCR) on the tablet driver PCB (actually iside the tablet, at one corner) which discharges a capacitor through a 1-turn coil around one side of the tablet. This causes a magnetic pulse to propagage down metal wires across the tablet. IIRC, it sets up magnetostrictive strains in the wires, and thus propagates essentially at the speed of sound. The pulse is detected by a coil in the pen/puck, and fed back to the control electronics. The microcontroller, aided by some external counters, measures the time delay, and thus works out where the pen/puck is on the tablet. The process is then repeated for the other axis of the tablet using a coil and wires at right angles to the first one. If you want to know how I discovered all this, well, years ago I obtained an Apple Graphics Tablet. This is a Summagraphics tablet without the electronics, but with the counters, etc, on an Apple ][ plug-in card. Not having an Apple ][ at the time, I made an interface, loosely based on the Apple ][ card (the schemaitc is in the manual) to plug into my CoCo. After sorting out noise problems due to common ground leads (to tie into another thread!), I got it working fairly well.. I have the Bit Pad 1 on my PERQ, and a somewhat older one, based on the same principles, on the I2S systems. I have all the manuals and schematics, and they all work in much the same way. > > My tablet's got both a pen and a puck; maybe that's a pen connector? On the BP1, the pen and puck plug into the same 7 pin DIN connector (allowing for 4 buttons on the puck). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:49:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405051813.OAA25695@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 5, 4 02:10:56 pm Message-ID: > The pc board is only two-layer, though, just front and back. I may try > to trace where the switches connect to to see which ones are plausible > guesses for what I want. If it's anything like the BP1, those switches are read in firmware by the microcontroller. Unless you fancy disassembling the firmware, you'll not make any sense of them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:54:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <000a01c432d4$18ddc860$a0340f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at May 5, 4 03:06:39 pm Message-ID: > Does anyone here have experience maintaining / aligning RK05 drives and > keeping them running? I have a couple of RK05s on my 11/45 system. I've done an alignemt after a head replacement on a friend's machine. It's not hard. You load the alignment pack (after ensuring the heads fly correctly on a scratch (but not scratched :-)) disk), connect a 'scope to the testpoints on the read ampifier and trigger the 'scope from the index signal. You then step the head to the right track (just dump the right values in the RK11's registers) -- the track contains a special offset alignment pattern. You then look at the display on the 'scope. When the heads are on-track, the 2 halves of the pattern are read with equal amplitude. So you tweak the head adjusting screws until that's the case. I acutally found doing the RK05 alignment to be easier than aligning a 3.5" floppy drive. I once had an RK05 drive catch fire (!). The insulation on the blower motor widings broke down, and smoke, and even small flames, came out of the motor. I manages to hit the load switch (retracting the heads) and shut the machine down before any real damage was done. A friend gave me a similar blower with bad bearings, and using the stator from that and the bearings/rootor from my original one, I got it going again. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 18:57:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: <001201c432d6$501acba0$a0340f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at May 5, 4 03:22:31 pm Message-ID: > > Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Yes. Well, actually I have 2 of them, and an RK05F > Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Yes, again. Done head replacements, rebuilt the blower fan, fixed logic problems, and even once undid a field-circuit bodge where they twisted together the ends of a broken wire in the interlock circuit (ensures the heads only load when a pack is in place) without soldering. This would open under vibration (say during extensive disk activity), and then the logic would retract the heads as a safety precaution. Took a long time to find that one, seconds to cure it! -tony From cswiger at widomaker.com Wed May 5 19:27:48 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Univac Operators Manual & more Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20040505202420.025fc488@wilma.widomaker.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4128075425 Looks like some stuff from the C&O Railroad - other Univac material in the sellers list --Chuck From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 5 19:48:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I'd venture a guess of this as the originating machine from the headers: > > > >Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) > > by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > >i44Du683015611 for > > ; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) > > > >Anything there look recognizable? > > > >David > > It looks like the following (from the message in December), except > for the SMTP id, AND the SMTP server itself. Very weird. > > Received: from afdldashlas (73.151.202.68.cfl.rr.com [68.202.151.73]) > by ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > hBBHi278009495 > for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:44:03 -0500 (EST) It's probably the dude who stole the Altair messing with Joe just to rub it in some more. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Wed May 5 20:29:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Univac Operators Manual & more Message-ID: <200405060129.i461Ttux015584@spies.com> Thanks. I'll return the favor some day. From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed May 5 20:42:00 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DTC MicroFile Message-ID: <40993578.29341.4434914@localhost> Hi, Does anyone have any recollections or information about the DTC MicroFile? Data Terminals and Communications made it. It's a piece of furniture on wheels, contains a box with a dual 8" floppy drive and appears to be designed to sit in between a terminal and a daisywheel printer -- a primitive word processor? Haven't had a chance to crack the box open yet, and am curious if anyone has any concrete information. Cheers Brian From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 5 23:34:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <007c01c4320b$9d0201c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever > registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) I'm surprised one of those fucking annoying spam sites didn't grab it so they can put up some lame search engine. It seems that's what happens whenever you let a domain name expire. I've been trying to get vcf.org for a few years now but the ultra-losers who own it keep renewing and won't even respond to inquiries. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 6 00:29:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405060531.BAA08840@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I may try to trace where the switches connect to to see which ones >> are plausible guesses for what I want. > If it's anything like the BP1, those switches are read in firmware by > the microcontroller. Unless you fancy disassembling the firmware, > you'll not make any sense of them. I could pull the PROM and try disassembling it. But I'm not sure it's that bad; based on what the switch banks are in physical proximity to, I suspect at least one of them controls electronics directly rather than simply being read by the CPU. Well, only one way to find out...now where's that screwdriver...(actually, it's more like, where's the tuit stack gone). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 6 00:32:18 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405060536.BAA08866@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Basically, the microcontroller triggers a thyristor (SCR) on the > tablet driver PCB (actually iside the tablet, at one corner) which > discharges a capacitor through a 1-turn coil around one side of the > tablet. This causes a magnetic pulse to propagage down metal wires > across the tablet. IIRC, it sets up magnetostrictive strains in the > wires, and thus propagates essentially at the speed of sound. I'm not sure how accurate this is for the pad I have. The pad is a two-layer PCB, with the working area covered by a grid of printed-circuit "wires", in one direction on one side of the PCB and the other direction on the other side. They are surprisingly far apart, on the order of ?". I haven't traced the circuitry enough to know how accurate your description is, though I didn't see anything like the one-turn coil you describe - everything electrical, besides the serial connector, power, and the puck, is on the PCB. Two parallel etch runs could form a one-turn coil; I don't recall seeing them, but I also wasn't looking for them. Perhaps when I open it up to investigate the DIP switch banks I'll be able to tell. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gohai at gmx.net Thu May 6 07:04:52 2004 From: gohai at gmx.net (Gottfried Haider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Hello, I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and expensive) than the IMSAI? thanks! Gottfried Haider PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu May 6 07:04:02 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083845041.5961.3.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 00:34, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > It had been taken before, but I checked recently and found that whoever > > registered hp1000.org had let it expire, so I snagged it! :) > > I'm surprised one of those fucking annoying spam sites didn't grab it so > they can put up some lame search engine. It seems that's what happens > whenever you let a domain name expire. I've been trying to get vcf.org > for a few years now but the ultra-losers who own it keep renewing and > won't even respond to inquiries. It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. None of them seem to do it, though. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 6 07:32:42 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel In-Reply-To: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> References: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Message-ID: <20040506123242.GA19184@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 02:04:52PM +0200, Gottfried Haider wrote: > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there > classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and > expensive) than the IMSAI? Real PDP-8s are expensive, but a modern replica, the SBC-6120 can be made with a front panel - it's completely PDP-8 compatible. http://sparetimegizmos.com/ I warn you, though, even a modern replica isn't cheap... I have spent several hundred dollars getting mine built it, and I did all the soldering myself. Still cheaper (and lighter) that the real thing -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 06-May-2004 12:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.3 F (-65.2 C) Windchill -149.9 F (-101.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.9 kts Grid 053 Barometer 671.5 mb (10949. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 6 07:52:29 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <200405061252.i46CqThc018519@huey.classiccmp.org> At 14:04 06/05/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards >about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown >away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) > >Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable >front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there >classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and >expensive) than the IMSAI? > >thanks! >Gottfried Haider >PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. It ain't exactly "inexpensive", but they are producing a series-2 IMSAI: http://www.imsai.net/products/imsai_series_two.htm Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From melamy at earthlink.net Thu May 6 08:15:44 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <28736922.1083849345546.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> you can buy a IMSAI II new at www.imsai.net which is a second generation copy of the original IMSAI. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: Gottfried Haider Sent: May 6, 2004 8:04 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Hello, I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and expensive) than the IMSAI? thanks! Gottfried Haider PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu May 6 08:16:29 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040506081629.0c17b60e.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 5 May 2004 15:47:02 -0400 chris wrote: > Once upon a time I had a program for the Mac, older program (System 7 > era) that allowed you to "tunnel" your keyboard and mouse to another mac. > > The way it worked was, you would move the mouse to the top corner of the > screen, above the Apple menu, and "push" thru to another screen. It would > then move your keyboard and mouse control to another Mac. Basically, it > worked as a software KV switch (no M as it required you to have a monitor > on the other Mac). > > I've been unsuccessful in turning up a copy of this program in my > archives. Partly hampered by not remembering what it was called. > > Does anyone remember what this software was, and do they have a copy they > can send me? > I think we experimented with something like that years back. What we had was called Timbucktu (spelling?) From lcourtney at mvista.com Thu May 6 08:50:04 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel In-Reply-To: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Message-ID: G, > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? If you're not wedded to real hardware lots of emulators around, many with more impressive and luminiferous than the Altair. To wit: "Rob Storey" wrote in message news:<4098E362.86576267@optushome.com.au>... > Hi All, > > Work on my emulator program for the IBM 7094 has progressed to a point > where it should be of interest/entertainment for others. While still > incomplete, and far from being capable of running the IBSYS operating > system, it is still fun to watch as it runs the diagnostic programs. > snipped > > It's available at:- > http://members.optushome.com.au/intaemul/Emul7094.htm > > Cheers, > Rob Storey Also see http://simh.trailing-edge.com/. Cheers, Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gottfried Haider > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 5:05 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: looking for a computer with front panel > > > Hello, > > I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards > about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown > away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) > > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there > classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and > expensive) than the IMSAI? > > thanks! > Gottfried Haider > PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. > From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 09:08:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >I think we experimented with something like that years back. What we had >was called Timbucktu (spelling?) I probably should have mentioned in my original post that I am attempting to replace Timbuktu. Timbuktu does a fine job, EXCEPT that I find there to be enough of a lag that it gets on my nerves when I use it thru the day. The software I'm looking for was the software equivelent of a KVM switch, without the V. There was no lag, because all that was being done was sending the keyboard and mouse commands to the remote machine. You still viewed the remote machine on its own monitor. -chris From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu May 6 09:17:57 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel In-Reply-To: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> References: <00bf01c43362$56efe370$a67a6e50@gottfried> Message-ID: <1083853077.5961.8.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 08:04, Gottfried Haider wrote: > > Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable > front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there > classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and > expensive) than the IMSAI? > > thanks! > Gottfried Haider > PS: Please CC me as I am going to unsubscribe soon. you could just buy one from Imsai - http://www.imsai.net/ From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 6 10:15:35 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It sounds like you've pretty much done it all. I hope mine doesn't catch fire! I'll likely be asking for some advice in the not too distant future. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:58 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DEC RL01/02, RK05/06/07 Cartridge Inspector/Cleaner > > Does anyone here currently have a functioning RK05 drive? Yes. Well, actually I have 2 of them, and an RK05F > Has anyone here ever brought one back from the dead? Yes, again. Done head replacements, rebuilt the blower fan, fixed logic problems, and even once undid a field-circuit bodge where they twisted together the ends of a broken wire in the interlock circuit (ensures the heads only load when a pack is in place) without soldering. This would open under vibration (say during extensive disk activity), and then the logic would retract the heads as a safety precaution. Took a long time to find that one, seconds to cure it! -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 6 11:17:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <1083845041.5961.3.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <409A6531.8010201@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher McNabb wrote: > It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for > commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. > None of them seem to do it, though. Don't forget .spam and .porn Ben. From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 6 11:56:16 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain In-Reply-To: <409A6531.8010201@jetnet.ab.ca> from ben franchuk at "May 6, 4 10:17:53 am" Message-ID: <200405061656.JAA12532@floodgap.com> > > It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for > > commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. > > None of them seem to do it, though. > > Don't forget .spam and .porn Myself, I'm holding out for .sucky and .kewl. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. ---------------------------------- From bert at brothom.nl Thu May 6 13:19:01 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: hp domain References: <1083845041.5961.3.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> <409A6531.8010201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <409A8195.2F7013E8@brothom.nl> ben franchuk wrote: > > Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > It would be really nice if the registrars would enforce the .com for > > commercial, .org for organization, .net for network provider scheme. > > None of them seem to do it, though. > > Don't forget .spam and .porn > Ben. I did not read it myself, but check out RFC3675: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3675.html That should explain why that's not done. Bert From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 6 12:53:04 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405061754.NAA11518@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > The software I'm looking for was the software equivelent of a KVM > switch, without the V. There was no lag, because all that was being > done was sending the keyboard and mouse commands to the remote > machine. That doesn't mean there's no lag (you say "because"). Try it over a satellite link, or a slow dialup, sometime. > You still viewed the remote machine on its own monitor. Of course, this does mean that the two machines in question are almost certain to be connected by a low-latency high-enough-bandwidth link.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 14:05:21 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >That doesn't mean there's no lag (you say "because"). Try it over a >satellite link, or a slow dialup, sometime. Oh very very true, over a slow connection. I know I used it in the past over a localtalk network, and it worked without lag. Simply because there wasn't enough data being pushed to be an issue. I'm sure over a slower connection that wouldn't hold true. However, because this software does NOT push the screen image of the remote machine back to the primary Mac... you really wouldn't use it over anything other than a LAN. You need to be able to see the monitor physically connected to the remote Mac to use it. All this does is allows you to bypass using a different keyboard and mouse. >Of course, this does mean that the two machines in question are almost >certain to be connected by a low-latency high-enough-bandwidth link.... Exactly. Since the machine is unlikely to be more than a few feet away, you can use Localtalk at the very least, which in my past use, was sufficient bandwidth (I ran it on a 25 MHz 68040 over localtalk connecting to a 100 MHz PPC 603 laptop... now I want to use it on a 400 MHz G3 connecting to a 250 MHz PPC 603e over 10Mbs ethernet... so I'd assume there will be no lag as well... there is only minor lag in Timbuktu which does FAR FAR more) -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu May 6 15:26:43 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:21 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software References: Message-ID: <001001c433a8$726a2de0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Mac keyboard tunnel software > >That doesn't mean there's no lag (you say "because"). Try it over a > >satellite link, or a slow dialup, sometime. > > Oh very very true, over a slow connection. > > I know I used it in the past over a localtalk network, and it worked > without lag. Simply because there wasn't enough data being pushed to be > an issue. I'm sure over a slower connection that wouldn't hold true. > > However, because this software does NOT push the screen image of the > remote machine back to the primary Mac... you really wouldn't use it over > anything other than a LAN. You need to be able to see the monitor > physically connected to the remote Mac to use it. All this does is allows > you to bypass using a different keyboard and mouse. > > >Of course, this does mean that the two machines in question are almost > >certain to be connected by a low-latency high-enough-bandwidth link.... > > Exactly. Since the machine is unlikely to be more than a few feet away, > you can use Localtalk at the very least, which in my past use, was > sufficient bandwidth (I ran it on a 25 MHz 68040 over localtalk > connecting to a 100 MHz PPC 603 laptop... now I want to use it on a 400 > MHz G3 connecting to a 250 MHz PPC 603e over 10Mbs ethernet... so I'd > assume there will be no lag as well... there is only minor lag in > Timbuktu which does FAR FAR more) > > -chris > > Is there any reason an ADB KVM can't be used in this setting? I have used Timbuktu before and there is a little lag on a 100Mbs network (using 1024x768 resolution on the machine being controlled). I ended up getting a Dr.Bott KVM for my ADB Macs and it works perfectly (4 machines). Do you think Timbuktu would lag on a GB ethernet setup? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 6 15:40:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... Message-ID: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> I know very little about these machines, but one just turned up on the doorstep for the museum. Power supply checks out, I get a white display (so something useful looks to be happening in the video circuitry), but I get no spin-up from the hard disk (A Seagate ST-157 SCSI drive) and a steady floppy drive light. I'm not sure if the hard disk is fixable yet - no idea if it's a head crash or whatever. There seems to be little about these drives on the web, but I did see one comment that they were famous for stiction - in which case maybe I can give it a hand in spinning up... Does anyone have install media if it comes to that though? I can always drop a different SCSI drive in it (I think I have a spare 160MB drive somewhere), but I don't have any floppies for this machine and I gather they never were particularly common, sitting somewhere between the ST and the Falcon... cheers Jules From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 15:42:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >Is there any reason an ADB KVM can't be used in this setting? Only because I toggle between the two often. I think flipping a switch back and forth will get annoying. I'm not sure that sliding the mouse across the top of the menu bar won't also... but I just have a feeling that will be less annoying (mostly because I currently use two monitors on my one Mac, and already move the mouse between screens all the time, and I don't find it the least bit annoying, so to me, I just think it will be like having an additional screen to work on, that just happens to have the processing happening on another computer). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 6 15:52:46 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard tunnel software Message-ID: >Do you >think Timbuktu would lag on a GB ethernet setup? I meant to put this on the other email... sorry. I'm not sure where the lag is happening in Timbuktu. What I find isn't so much a delay in things happening, so much as it is a delay in me seeing it. If I click something that should beep, it beeps pretty much right away... however, if there should also be a window pop open, I won't see the window open until a good half second or more later. And I don't notice that the lag is too much worse over a slower connection (dialup and DSL). So it may just be the way Timbuktu deals with sending the screen draws. Also, it seems easy to get ahead of it. If you move the mouse too fast, it won't show you where it has gone, and then it jumps. So you end up moving slower so you can target correctly rather than constantly jumping around the screen hoping to get the right spot. And you have to click slower or it will accept it as a double click or ignore additional clicks. None of it is that far off. Maybe by half a second. But when you are doing long, repetative things, those half seconds add up fast. Since I can't say that I notice a huge difference in the lag when there is a huge difference in bandwidth, then I tend to think the lag may be elsewhere. Either in the remote machine's ability to processes everything, or in Timbuktu's limit of displaying or sending/receiving the data. -chris From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 6 16:29:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1083878971.14680.39.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 20:40, Jules Richardson wrote: > I get no spin-up from the hard disk never mind - stiction it is... I got the bottom board off the drive and managed to free up the spindle by hand, it now seems to spin up properly by itself... Now I have a booting machine :-) Unfortunately there isn't much in the way of data on the drive - terminal program, spreadsheet and not much else. The drive's suffering from a few bad/marginal blocks it seems, so I'll have to figure out a way of backing it up (I'll at least grab a raw 40MB image of the drive by sticking it into my desktop PC) Anyone got any pretty audio or video demos which will work on the TT030 machines? (probably not...) Were any games ever produced for them? (Again, probably not :-) cheers Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 6 17:02:51 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... Message-ID: <200405062202.i46M2phc020985@huey.classiccmp.org> >Anyone got any pretty audio or video demos which will work on the TT030 >machines? (probably not...) Were any games ever produced for them? >(Again, probably not :-) Does the TT run ST software? If so, I've got a few games and other software. If you want to try, I can email you a few 720k diskette images - you can make the disks on a PC. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 6 17:02:51 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... Message-ID: <200405062202.i46M2phc020984@huey.classiccmp.org> At 20:40 06/05/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >I know very little about these machines, but one just turned up on the >doorstep for the museum. Power supply checks out, I get a white display >(so something useful looks to be happening in the video circuitry), but >I get no spin-up from the hard disk (A Seagate ST-157 SCSI drive) and a >steady floppy drive light. > >I'm not sure if the hard disk is fixable yet - no idea if it's a head >crash or whatever. There seems to be little about these drives on the >web, but I did see one comment that they were famous for stiction - in >which case maybe I can give it a hand in spinning up... > >Does anyone have install media if it comes to that though? I can always >drop a different SCSI drive in it (I think I have a spare 160MB drive >somewhere), but I don't have any floppies for this machine and I gather >they never were particularly common, sitting somewhere between the ST >and the Falcon... > >cheers > >Jules Try putting a blank 720K MS-DOS formatted diskette in the floppy drive. I don't have intimate experience with the TT030 (haven't found one yet), but I believe it has the operating system in ROM, just like the ST series, which I do know fairly well. I do know that with my ST machines, the screen just shows "white" unless there is a diskette in the drive. Then the system will come up. The ST (and I believe the TT) uses a FAT format, and can read/write DOS disks - a blank formatted disk works on the ST, so I'm guessing it might work on the TT as well. Failing that, I do know someone locally with a TT030 who might be able to send an install disk image... Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 6 17:38:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <200405062202.i46M2phc020984@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405062202.i46M2phc020984@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1083883138.14680.44.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 22:02, Dave Dunfield wrote: > I don't have intimate experience with the TT030 (haven't found one yet), but I > believe it has the operating system in ROM, just like the ST series, which I do > know fairly well. Ahh, fair enough - I was into Amigas back in those days so I know almost nothing about ST machines or anything that came later... > The ST (and I believe the > TT) uses a FAT format, and can read/write DOS disks - a blank formatted disk works > on the ST, so I'm guessing it might work on the TT as well. Hmm - I wonder if the hard disk is FAT too... that'd really sort out backing it up as I can just drop the drive into my PC and Linux should be able to read the filesystem itself and not just a raw drive image. cheers Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 17:57:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405060536.BAA08866@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 6, 4 01:32:18 am Message-ID: > > > Basically, the microcontroller triggers a thyristor (SCR) on the > > tablet driver PCB (actually iside the tablet, at one corner) which > > discharges a capacitor through a 1-turn coil around one side of the > > tablet. This causes a magnetic pulse to propagage down metal wires > > across the tablet. IIRC, it sets up magnetostrictive strains in the > > wires, and thus propagates essentially at the speed of sound. > > I'm not sure how accurate this is for the pad I have. > > The pad is a two-layer PCB, with the working area covered by a grid of > printed-circuit "wires", in one direction on one side of the PCB and > the other direction on the other side. They are surprisingly far Oh, it's a Kriz tablet (after Stan Kriz at 3 rivers). I have never fully understood how they work either. The 'wires' in the PCB carry electrical currents, and are sequenced in some way by the microcontroller. The puck/pen contains a pickup coil, the output of which is amplified and fed back to the microcontroller. There;s no ADC On the pen input, the signal is conveted to a 2-level one. And the resolution is _much_ higher than the spacing between the 'wires'. I have the schemaitcs of the PERQ 2 tablet (which uses this principle), and they don't give much away. One day I'll disassemble the microcontroller ROM and make sense of it all... > apart, on the order of =BE". I haven't traced the circuitry enough to > know how accurate your description is, though I didn't see anything > like the one-turn coil you describe - everything electrical, besides > the serial connector, power, and the puck, is on the PCB. Two parallel > etch runs could form a one-turn coil; I don't recall seeing them, but I I was assuming this was a magnetostrictive tablet, like the older Summagraphics ones. Obviously not. -tony From bshannon at tiac.net Thu May 6 18:44:39 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Stolen altair 8800 References: Message-ID: <409ACDE7.4000407@tiac.net> Um, have you ever met Joe? Bill Sudbrink wrote: >>Where the hell did that come from???? I sent that message OVER a year >> >ago! > >Well... Actually about 5 months ago (checked my archives), but I was >wondering >the same thing! > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 6 18:39:38 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: The Atari TT030 is a *VERY* cool machine. The OS is in ROM, and it is able to use standard SCSI drives (mine has a 1GB drive), and it can be hooked up to a VGA monitor. It uses FAT formated floppies, and IIRC, some or all have 1.44MB floppy drives. What do you mean by install media? Is some kind of software needed to get it to recognize the HD? As you mention, they aren't that common, and do fall between the ST and the Falcon. The Falcon has the advantage of supporting more colours, but the TT030 is about twice as fast. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 6 18:47:57 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> Davison, Lee wrote: >Anyone have the datasheet for this chip? > > I am sure I do, because I have a handful of the chips in my lab at the office. I know they are in one of the National Semiconductor Databooks. I think it is the one called Special Functions. >I've got one chip + 1 ROM that isn't either of the usual speech >ROMs. This was supposed to have been pulled from a telephone >answering machine. > > Mine were for a talking punch press control from about 1983. Funny that the marketing guy that thought this up didn't realize that the noise in a stamping plant is such that you can't hear yourself talk, let alone listen to the machine tell you what was happening. I think DigiTalker was more intelligible than VOTRAX, another voice synthesizer chip, but had a limited vocabulary. If it was not in the ROM it could not be said, so your "special" ROM makes sense. VOTRAX was a phoneme generator. I have two of these. One is for a TRS-80 Model 3 and the other is a "generic" parallel interface type. >Lee. > > -chuck From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 6 19:07:20 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409AD338.8010308@nktelco.net> I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty primitive. I also have an 8085 emulator called a Millenium, but I don't remember the company name. This one is interesting because it is based on a 6800 processor in an S-100 chassis. It has the capability of being controlled via a remote computer. Has anyone seen one of these? I has a green vacuum florescent single line display and a large panel of special function buttons. I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... -chuck Joe R. wrote: >Wow! Cool find! I have one for the Z-80 CPU and I know where there's one >for the 6800. I have an old ProLog catalog and I think it shows the one for >the 4040 but I don't think it gives any details. I've never tried to use >mine and I know that the guy with the one for 6800 hasn't been able to make >his work. I've been looking for manuals for any of them but haven't found >one. I saw the mention of the one on Jim's site and I've written to him >several times but he's never replied. > > Joe > >At 06:59 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > > >>I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an >>electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that >>it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks >>like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and >>build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any >>information about it? The closest I came was >>http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the >>very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... >> >> >> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 6 19:26:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <409AD338.8010308@nktelco.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:07 PM 5/6/04 -0400, you wrote: >I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have >a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty >primitive. I'd like to get a copy of your manual. > >I also have an 8085 emulator called a Millenium, but I don't remember >the company name. Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" thick. This one is interesting because it is based on a 6800 >processor in an S-100 chassis. It has the capability of being controlled >via a remote computer. Has anyone seen one of these? I has a green >vacuum florescent single line display and a large panel of special >function buttons. I'm not sure if that's like the ones that I have or not. I haven't touched them in a long time. I know the ones that I but are made by Millenium but I don't remember the model numbers. They're in storage but I can pick them up and photograph them the first of next week if any is interested. Joe > >I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that >could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... > >-chuck > >Joe R. wrote: > >>Wow! Cool find! I have one for the Z-80 CPU and I know where there's one >>for the 6800. I have an old ProLog catalog and I think it shows the one for >>the 4040 but I don't think it gives any details. I've never tried to use >>mine and I know that the guy with the one for 6800 hasn't been able to make >>his work. I've been looking for manuals for any of them but haven't found >>one. I saw the mention of the one on Jim's site and I've written to him >>several times but he's never replied. >> >> Joe >> >>At 06:59 PM 5/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>>I found this little gem while excavating in the back warehouse of an >>>electronics surplus company while on vacation recently. I'm guessing that >>>it's pretty rare. Lots of blinky-lights and toggle switches! It looks >>>like it's almost brand new. Now I just have to dig up my 4004 CPU and >>>build something around it so I can try this thing out. Anybody have any >>>information about it? The closest I came was >>>http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-boards.shtml, about the 5th entry up from the >>>very bottom. Looks almost identical, but is apparently for the 8080... >>> >>> >>> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 6 19:29:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Wow! TI-99/8 Hex-Bus Disk Drive/Controller Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Did you guys see this? Joe From medavidson at mac.com Thu May 6 19:42:16 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Wow! TI-99/8 Hex-Bus Disk Drive/Controller In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <63833AD2-9FBF-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Yep, and someone won it for $738! On May 6, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Joe R. wrote: > Did you guys see this? > > > Joe > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu May 6 20:56:15 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Need power adapter for VideoBrain Message-ID: <007f01c433d6$7ca98980$82406b43@66067007> Found a videobrain TV-500 computer today but no power supply with it. Anyone have an extra one for sale or know were to get one? Thanks From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 22:42:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <409AD338.8010308@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at May 6, 4 08:07:20 pm Message-ID: > I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that > could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... You want to make a Radio Shack Model 100 in a single package using a PIC? Rather you than me! -tony From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 6 22:55:36 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I acquired a dead VT52 DecScope today and I am going to attempt to revive it. I have a copy of the VT52 maintenance manual. I am also getting a second one that "lights up" in about a week. I am hoping to be able to create at least one functional VT52. Does anyone here have any experience repairing a dead VT52 DecScope? When I apply power, I hear a mild hum coming from the transformer area, but there is nothing on the screen.. no cursor, no raster. I just turned it on this evening and have not followed through the debugging information in the manual. One thing I did notice is that the manual talks about a fuse on the back. There is no fuse on mine, but I do see what appears to be a circuit breaker button on the right side near the on/off switch. Any ideas from experienced folk would be welcome! Thanks, Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 6 22:56:06 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when pressed. Ashley From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 00:51:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> References: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200405070553.BAA24373@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I think DigiTalker was more intelligible than VOTRAX, another voice > synthesizer chip, but had a limited vocabulary. If it was not in the > ROM it could not be said, so your "special" ROM makes sense. VOTRAX > was a phoneme generator. I have two of these. One is for a TRS-80 > Model 3 and the other is a "generic" parallel interface type. VOTRAX, that brings back memories. I once used one of those; it was a serial-port model, with phonemes chosen by characters sent down a serial line from the host...it was a kinda fun toy. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 01:34:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Apochryphal? Message-ID: Found while scouring Usenet for something totally unrelated: "Well, you never know what someone might be doing with old, but usable, hardware. I have heard that there is a major bank in Great Britain that keeps an IBM 360 running because its 1401 emulator emulates a 704 (as did the original 1401) for a program whose Autocoder source was lost long ago. Also, don't underestimate the geek factor. Was AlphaLISP ever ported to Alpha Micro's 680x0 line? "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman she meets and then teams up with three complete strangers to kill again." -- TV listing for "The Wizard of Oz" in a Marin County newspaper," Posted 2002-04-03 by one Michael Roach. Apocryphal? Who knows. Might be worth following up one... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri May 7 02:05:54 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Apochryphal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405070005.54326.lbickley@bickleywest.com> 1) In actual fact, the 1401 never emulated the IBM 70x series. The IBM 704 was a predessor of the IBM 709, 7090 and Stretch computers. The IBM System/360 Model 65 and 67 did emulate the IBM 7090 - and hence "almost" the 704 whose instructions were a subset of the 709. The System/360's Model 30 did emulate the 1401 - so they were probably running a 360/30 - for Autocoder 1401 programs. 2) I had an Alpha Micro - and I don't remember ever seeing AlphaLISP being ported to the 68XXX line. 3) I love the "Wizard of Oz" byline. Sounds like so much of today's news ;-) Lyle On Thursday 06 May 2004 23:34, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Found while scouring Usenet for something totally unrelated: > > "Well, you never know what someone might be doing with old, but usable, > hardware. I have heard that there is a major bank in Great Britain > that keeps an IBM 360 running because its 1401 emulator emulates a 704 > (as did the original 1401) for a program whose Autocoder source was > lost long ago. Also, don't underestimate the geek factor. Was > AlphaLISP ever ported to Alpha Micro's 680x0 line? > "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman > she meets and then teams up with three complete strangers to kill > again." -- TV listing for "The Wizard of Oz" in a Marin County newspaper," > > Posted 2002-04-03 by one Michael Roach. > > Apocryphal? Who knows. Might be worth following up one... -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 02:33:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200405070750.DAA24925@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [Gerold Pauler ] > Look at > http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/Summafiles/Bit%20Pad%202%20Tech%20Ref.pdf Lovely. Thank you very much. That is *almost* exactly what I wanted, certainly close enough to be very useful. > This should be the right docu > (DIP switches are on the last two pages 60,61) ;-) But those are pages D-2 and D-4, documenting switch banks 1 and 3; page D-3, which presumably describes DIP switch bank 2, is missing (as is page D-1, which the table of contents says has a command summary). I find no documentation on at least one command I stumbled across by accident, one which causes ASCII reports to end with CR rather than CRLF; presumably there also exists a command which switches it back to CRLF. There may exist others too; I'm going to try all 128 ASCII characters.... However, those are minor. This document is extremely helpful, largely because the incompletenesses are slight and what it does document matches, as far as I can tell, the tablet I have. (When I saw the report-version response documentation, I was fairly sure it would.) Did you scan it? Do you have any channel to the people who did? I'd be interested in getting whoever has the paper manual to check it against the PDF and see what else may be missing.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Fri May 7 03:25:35 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> <200405070750.DAA24925@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <409B47FF.3080509@gmx.net> der Mouse schrieb: >>http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/Summafiles/Bit%20Pad%202%20Tech%20Ref.pdf > But those are pages D-2 and D-4, documenting switch banks 1 and 3; page > D-3, which presumably describes DIP switch bank 2, is missing (as is > page D-1, which the table of contents says has a command summary). I > find no documentation on at least one command I stumbled across by > accident, one which causes ASCII reports to end with CR rather than > CRLF; presumably there also exists a command which switches it back to > CRLF. There may exist others too; I'm going to try all 128 ASCII > characters.... Sorry, didn't check it for completeness. :-( But you find some descriptions for switch #2 on pages 33 and 36 (4-10, 4-12). > Did you scan it? Do you have any channel to the people who did? I'd > be interested in getting whoever has the paper manual to check it > against the PDF and see what else may be missing.... No, I didn't scan it and sorry I don't have any channel to them. It was just slow working memory. After I got my MM1201 I was searching for new drivers and I found them on their Website. Now after I remembered them, I thought maybe they also have some documentation, looked and found it. They also have stuff for other tablets like calcomp, .. Gerold From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 03:27:35 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <409B47FF.3080509@gmx.net> References: <200405040907.FAA06454@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4098244C.70404@gifford.co.uk> <200405050746.DAA23508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1083766108.13604.40.camel@weka.localdomain> <4098F6EC.7030407@jcwren.com> <200405051804.OAA25625@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40993BA4.4020407@gmx.net> <200405070750.DAA24925@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <409B47FF.3080509@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200405070830.EAA25058@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> But those are pages D-2 and D-4, documenting switch banks 1 and 3; >> page D-3, which presumably describes DIP switch bank 2, is missing >> (as is page D-1, which the table of contents says has a command >> summary). > Sorry, didn't check it for completeness. :-( Well, as I said, it's still very helpful. :-) > But you find some descriptions for switch #2 on pages 33 and 36 > (4-10, 4-12). Yes, some. It still leaves SW2 switches 1 and 2 undocumented. I have twice accidentally caused it to switch from CRLF to bare CR for ASCII reports, but despite trying all 128 ASCII characters have been unable to do so deliberately. I also have been unable to switch to binary reports. I noodled around their website a bit and found an email address, to which I have sent a note asking about these. We'll see what, if anything, comes back. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri May 7 05:58:11 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media) Message-ID: <200405071058.i47AwAhc024277@huey.classiccmp.org> >never mind - stiction it is... I got the bottom board off the drive and >managed to free up the spindle by hand, it now seems to spin up properly >by itself... I have a little story about Stiction ... this is not "cyber legend", this actually happened, and I was the one who did it! Way back, sometime in the mid to late 80's, when this stuff was not cheap or easy to come by, somebody gave me a dead Lapine "Titan" hard drive - I think it was a 20meg drive. The drive just wouldn't spin up at all. I tried the "shake and bake" technique, rotating it back and forth about the spindle axis during power up etc. - no dice, the drive just would NOT spin up. So, "this is trash --- lets look inside". Popped the top off, and immediately discovered that the platters did not want to turn. On closer inspection, I discovered that the head did not want to budge from the platter surface, and came to the conclusion that the head was stuck to the platter. Memory is a bit dim on exactly what I did, however during my fooling around the head eventually came lose, and I could spin the platter - there was a discolored spot which had been under the head - it was slightly rough due to a bit of surface corrosion or deposits. I don't recall why, but "just for kicks", I took a fine cloth, polished the spot on the platter (IIRC it was still discolored, but I removed the surface deposits). Blew out the drive with a bit of air, and put the top back on, and installed it in a machine to "see what would happen". Not suprisingly the drive spun up right away. So, I low-level formatted the drive and ran a test --- then I got a suprise --- NO ERRORS! This was interesting "I wonder how long it will last", so I left it running surface scans overnight --- in the morning --- NO ERRORS! So I used it for "non critical" data - months went by and I never got a disk error. Eventually I gave the machine to a company I worked for who used it as a lab/test machine, and when I left the place a few years later, it was still going and to my knowlege had never gotten an error. "Clean room ... we don't need no steeenking clean room". Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 7 08:28:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 References: Message-ID: <16539.36616.355070.763691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case Ashley> is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when Ashley> pressed. Take off the keycaps and hose down the contacts with contact cleaner. Failing that, use a solvent such as alcohol. VT52 keyboard switches are gold contacts, not sealed, so they can get dirty but they are highly tolerant of cleaners. paul From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 7 08:39:59 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 References: <16539.36616.355070.763691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <002001c43438$cb7b87e0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Thanks for the tip. Where does one get contact cleaner and is it any more effective than alcohol? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 > >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > Ashley> What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case > Ashley> is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when > Ashley> pressed. > > Take off the keycaps and hose down the contacts with contact cleaner. > Failing that, use a solvent such as alcohol. > > VT52 keyboard switches are gold contacts, not sealed, so they can get > dirty but they are highly tolerant of cleaners. > > paul > From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 7 08:47:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 References: <16539.36616.355070.763691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <002001c43438$cb7b87e0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16539.37726.783579.464489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Thanks for the tip. Where does one get contact cleaner and Ashley> is it any more effective than alcohol? Radio Shack carries it, as would any of the dozens of electronic supply companies such as Contact East. More effective than alcohol? Probably. Alcohol is nice because it's readily available and safe for most plastics (but not for plexiglas). The same should be true for contact cleaner. Other easily available substances like acetone are more likely to dissolve things. I don't know what contact cleaner uses these days for active ingredients. Back before it became non-PC, various freon-like substances were used, and those work very well, but you're not allowed to buy those anymore. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 7 08:50:11 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 May 2004 05:58:11 CDT." <200405071058.i47AwAhc024277@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200405071350.i47DoBQ00451@mwave.heeltoe.com> Dave Dunfield wrote: >Way back, sometime in the mid to late 80's, when this stuff was not cheap or >easy to come by, somebody gave me a dead Lapine "Titan" hard drive - I think >it was a 20meg drive. The drive just wouldn't spin up at all. Ah, Tony Lapine. I love the story and it doesn't suprise me a bit. Certainly inside Lapine's engineering labs they had laminar flow hoods with open drives. (I remember waltzing through their labs once or twice) and those heads flew so high that just vacuming out the chamber would probably be fine :-) just don't shut it off :-) as I recall most makers of small drives at that time struggled with proper coatings to keep the heads from sticking to the platter... -brad From desmet at cnam.fr Wed May 5 09:34:06 2004 From: desmet at cnam.fr (Olivier De Smet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: HP 85-86 roms Message-ID: <4098FB5E.4060306@cnam.fr> Hello, I was wondering if it's possible to use rom dump as binary program (loaded with loadbin), perhaps with some "relocations" ? (I have an HP86B and some CS-80 HD but no EMS roms) Thanks in advance From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Wed May 5 11:21:56 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405050001.i4501Shf007124@huey.classiccmp.org> <3.0.6.32.20040505092203.0083a3f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409914A4.6080501@mcdermith.net> The instrument reliability was similar... One of the standard tests at the HP Colorado Springs Divisions (I assume it similar elsewhere in HP) was to put the equipment in a test chamber and run it at 50 deg C 90% humidity for a couple of days. While testing the 1631 the test tech accidentally set the temp way high with the 90% humidity and left for the weekend... There were two test run units in the chamber, and on both units the tops of all the electrolytics on the PS were cupped due to the heat, as well as visible melting on some of the other plastic parts (the plastic nosecone was obviously stressed...) We took the two units and (for the fun of it) applied power. One powered up, and could run measurements. The other worked OK once we had replaced the power supply with one from the line. Of course, their testing days were done and we replaced them with two new line units, but after replacing the second power supply and some of the cosmetic parts, they ended up as lab instruments on a bench... Pretty impressive, along with the other testing -- the shaker table (it would shake all the keys off the 64000s during test -- keys all over the test chamber...), 10' drop test, days of temp cycle testing between the instrument limits, and electrostatic testing (one of the test guys would wander around with a 10K test wand and zap everything in sight...) When I worked in displays, every so often someone would get the cables in the casters of their chair and scoot across the cube to grab the phone, and drag a display off the bench (or a scope, etc.) Seen most units survive this _special_ environmental test... Bill BTW: Regarding the thread about the 6809 processor, the 1630/1631 used the 6809 as the main processor. 1611/1615 used an 8080, and the 1610 used a 6800. 165x/16500 used a 68000. IIRC the 1640 serial analyzer used a 8080... Joe R. wrote: > My favorite story is about the badly beat up 9825 that I found in a > large metal dumpster full of water at Patrick AFB. It sat outside for at ...snip...snip...snip... > > Joe > > At 09:19 PM 5/4/04 -0700, Michael Holley wrote: > >>>That's what you'd think but it isn't the case. 9825s in paricular are >>>nearly indestrucable but I have constant problems with all of the 9845s. >> >>In 1979 I did a data-logging project at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in ...snip...snip...snip... >>Michael Holley >>www.swtpc.com/mholley From gohai at gmx.net Wed May 5 13:55:14 2004 From: gohai at gmx.net (Gottfried Haider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: looking for a computer with front panel Message-ID: <010d01c432d2$813b13b0$a67a6e50@gottfried> Hello, I came across a screening of 'Wargames', with a presentation afterwards about the computers and hacks used in the film ... and I was just blown away by the front panel of the IMSAI :) Do you know of any programmable computer today which has a programmable front panel? Are there maybe some machines for education? Or are there classic computers which have this feature and are less rare (and expensive) than the IMSAI? thanks! Gottfried Haider PS: Please CC me as I am not subscribed to the list. From jdbryan at acm.org Wed May 5 14:57:48 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040503161923.0091e8b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <409686F6.5010105@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405051957.i45JvnrU025789@mail.bcpl.net> On 3 May 2004 at 16:19, Joe R. wrote: > I'm not sure what kind of processor was in the 520 but I don't think it > was a standard CPU like the 680x0 that was used in the 9000/200 and > 300s. It's described in the August 1983 HP Journal article, "An 18-MHz, 32-Bit VLSI Microprocessor." Excerpt: "The heart of HP's new 32-bit VLSI computer system is the Memory/Processor Module. The central processing unit in this module is an NMOS circuit containing 450,000 transistors on a single chip operating at a clock frequency of 18 MHz. This compact CPU chip, which implements a 32-bit version of the HP 3000 Computer's stack-based architecture, is designed and microprogrammed to support multiple-CPU operations within a single Memory/Processor Module." That issue was dedicated to the hardware, and the March 1984 issue covered the 9000/520 software. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 6 10:57:45 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history (9825 uP?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040502132054.026720a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <4091F4C5.8000708@mcdermith.net> Message-ID: <200405061557.i46FvkrQ000313@mail.bcpl.net> On 2 May 2004 at 22:07, Christian Fandt wrote: > Secondly, can the HP250/9825(45) uP connection be verified by any > other source(s)? The April 1979 issue of "Hewlett-Packard Journal" (published by HP) has an article titled, "Cost-Effective Electronics for the Small-Business Computer" that describes the HP 250 processor. It says, in part: "The heart of the system is a 16-bit NMOS processor manufactured by the HP NMOS facility at Loveland, Colorado. This is a hybrid chip set which is also used in other HP products, such as the desktop System 45." > Thirdly, could anybody add more to the limited amount of technical > info available on the HP250 machines? That HPJ issue devoted seven articles (and the cover) to the HP 250. -- Dave From matthias.bauchinger at chello.at Thu May 6 11:26:55 2004 From: matthias.bauchinger at chello.at (Matthias Bauchinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: DEC HiNote Ultra Battery Problem Message-ID: <409A674F.3000605@chello.at> Hello Fred van Kempen, I've seen your post quite some time ago about your problem with the "locked" battery of the Dec HiNote Ultra. You wrote that is was kind of "locked" and that DEC came up with a small tool to "revive" it. I now have the same problem with my notebook. It doesn't charge...even in the small LCD-display at the right of the display-chassis the battery-icon is not displayed. But I can not find this small tool which should bring up my battery again. The url (revive.com) seems to be replaced. Could you please help me with a hint or something? That would be very nice. best regards Matthias Bauchinger PS.: Sorry for posting it to several email-adresses...was not sure which one would work. PPS.: Your old post: Ha! DEC noticed a problem with these battery packs "locking up" after extensive periods of no activity, so they came up with a small utility (revive.com) to "revive" the batt pack. It worked, too.. my battery came back to life, and, after a full charge, is as good as were it new.. ! Lappy is not a portable, ultra-light TCP/LAT/Serial/X11 terminal :) (muhaha, with 802.11b WLAN ;-) Cheers, Fred From Ashley at carderweb.com Thu May 6 22:21:25 2004 From: Ashley at carderweb.com (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 Message-ID: I acquired a dead VT52 DecScope today and I am going to attempt to revive it. I have a copy of the VT52 maintenance manual. I am also getting a second one that "lights up" in about a week. I am hoping to be able to create at least one functional VT52. Does anyone here have any experience repairing a dead VT52 DecScope? When I apply power, I hear a mild hum coming from the transformer area, but there is nothing on the screen.. no cursor, no raster. I just turned it on this evening and have not followed through the debugging information in the manual. One thing I did notice is that the manual talks about a fuse on the back. There is no fuse on mine, but I do see what appears to be a circuit breaker button on the right side near the on/off switch. Any ideas from experienced folk would be welcome! Thanks, Ashley From Ashley at carderweb.com Thu May 6 22:22:54 2004 From: Ashley at carderweb.com (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 Message-ID: What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit dirty and stick when pressed. Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 7 09:46:17 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 References: Message-ID: <006101c43442$0e44eae0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Something strange is going on. I posted this message last night, but I sent it from a different email address. Then I noticed that it wasn't showing up on the list, so I used the email address that I used when I registered with CCTalk and then it showed up on the list. It seems that my this particular message was held hostage until it was released by the CCTalk email filtering police! Maybe that's what happened with the "stolen altair" email from last year that just showed up again recently. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: Testing a Dead VT52 > I acquired a dead VT52 DecScope today and I am going to attempt > to revive it. I have a copy of the VT52 maintenance manual. I > am also getting a second one that "lights up" in about a week. > I am hoping to be able to create at least one functional VT52. > > Does anyone here have any experience repairing a dead VT52 > DecScope? When I apply power, I hear a mild hum coming from > the transformer area, but there is nothing on the screen.. > no cursor, no raster. I just turned it on this evening and > have not followed through the debugging information in the > manual. One thing I did notice is that the manual talks > about a fuse on the back. There is no fuse on mine, but I > do see what appears to be a circuit breaker button on the > right side near the on/off switch. > > Any ideas from experienced folk would be welcome! > > Thanks, > Ashley > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 7 10:07:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, and CDRW media. I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How retro :) http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bert at brothom.nl Fri May 7 11:36:30 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: ICL7660? References: <20040504231843.GA29809@bos7.spole.gov> <200405050804.JAA07121@citadel.metropolis.local> <20040505120331.GB2043@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <409BBB0E.5E8C5CF6@brothom.nl> > OK... thanks to one and all for tips... I will probably go with Digikey or > the supplier in Christchurch (since if I order from them, it will arrive on > one of the first flights in October). I do need the thru-hole variety for October??? I can imagine that living on the southpole implies long delivery times, but october??? If I order something, I'm always anxious to receive it, preferably in one day... Bert From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 7 12:16:36 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c43457$0e30ba10$a0340f14@mcothran1> Paper works for me. When we reincarnated our late 1970s PDP 11/40 college environment using the simh simulator, we had no copies of programs on magtape or disk or paper tape. It was all based on program and file printouts from 1978 on greenbar paper printed on an LA36 DecWriter. We had to do *LOTS* of typing because OCR didn't work well on aged LA36 greenbar printours. But the paper listings were readable by our 40-something failing eyes and we ended up faithfully reproducing the system that we once knew, loved, and spent many many late nights on. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:07 AM Subject: cd longevity > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > and CDRW media. > > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How > retro :) > > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri May 7 12:17:18 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > and CDRW media. > > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How > retro :) Actually, if ya wanna go techno-retro - we found (MGM Studios / Library of Congress / Filmbond Archival Institute) that the most long-lived medium for this kind of work is optically encoded data on well-processed Mylar linear film of some kind. With proper encoding techniques, one can get bit densities of more than a megabyte per inch - of standard 35MM sprocketed stock - of course an order of magnitude more using 70MM - and even more if wider stock is used. Carfully processed Mylar, with proper attention to washing and drying, will survive more than 150 years before degradation, if packed and sealed against the environment - and stored in a 'normal' temperature range. And of course the devices to read the data are just a light source and array of photo-sensors, with perhaps some simple optics for focussing and image expansion. I've seen a prototype film-sound reproducing device using IR LEDs and a video scanner chip - with the image being decoded back into sound on a cheap laptop - and this was 5 years ago.... But plastic mono-layer photographic stock film has the longest life and a very high BPI density as well. Cheers John From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 7 12:16:42 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405071724.NAA27297@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper > printouts. How retro :) A while ago - I can't remember whether it was on this list or not - I saw the question "I have some data I want to be able to retrieve in 50 years, what's the best way to store it?". Aside from "copy it to new media every four or five years or so", the only thing I ever saw proposed that sounded convincing was something machine-readable (barcodes?) on acid-free paper, kept in an inert atmosphere. (Actually, for as little as 50 years, I'm not sure the inert atmosphere is really necessary.) A megabit per page is not all that implausible; at 8x10? inches printable area per page, that's only a little over 100dpi each way. (sqrt(1048576/(8*10.5))?=?111.72756-.) Hardly suitable for routine backups of multi-gigabyte data sets, but plenty good enough for archival of many things. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 7 12:29:20 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16539.51056.774034.970058@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I Jay> just came across a rather detailed article about the topic of Jay> longevity of CD, DVD, and CDRW media. Jay> I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper Jay> printouts. How retro :) Probably not. How long is long? See http://www.longnow.org/ paul From kevin.potter at mnpa.co.uk Fri May 7 12:10:11 2004 From: kevin.potter at mnpa.co.uk (KEVIN POTTER) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: Omnibot 2000 Message-ID: Are you still looking for a tray and controller; http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2662&item=3191400436&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail is from MNPA whose registered office is at Ashcombe House, The Crescent, Leatherhead, Surrey KT22 8LQ. CAUTION: The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended for use only by the addressee. Any unauthorised dissemination or copying of this e-mail, and any use or disclosure of information contained in it is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. Please notify by reply e-mail if this e-mail has been sent to you in error and delete it together with any backups on your systems immediately. While attachments are virus checked, MNPA does not accept any liability in respect of any virus which is not detected. Opinions, conclusions or other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of MNPA shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 7 12:58:25 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:22 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040507175824.GH12848@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jay West, from writings of Fri, May 07, 2004 at 10:07:22AM -0500: > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > and CDRW media. > > I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How > retro :) Acid-free paper printouts, that is, and store as much as possible on multiple hard drives, in multiple systems, utilizing good backup strategies. ...and to think that some people thought that I was crazy because of all that I've said in the past about CD ROT, particularly in discussions pertaining to the superiority of vinyl LP's for audio vs. CDs. :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html Darn... and they're treating it like it's new news. Heh! :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) And check out the bizarre quote: "Irons is still pretty happy with CD technology, since it beats vinyl LPs and tape for longevity. Now that he's moved his discs to an apartment with a more stable temperature, he's noticed that the decay has slowed." Vinyl LP's, carefully maintained, have a lifetime estimated to be 100 years or more; when played on high-quality turntables, wear isn't really an issue. Unfortunately, no mention was made of CDs using a gold layer which is supposed to greatly increase their durability. Didn't Kodak discontinue their manufacture of such gold CDs a while back due to a lack of demand for them? -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From phillipmilks at juno.com Fri May 7 12:50:55 2004 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20040507.105111.27881.146006@webmail20.lax.untd.com> Message: 12 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 04:42:39 +0100 (BST) From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain > I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that > could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... You want to make a Radio Shack Model 100 in a single package using a PIC? Rather you than me! -tony It probably wouldn't be that difficult, with the overblown versions of the PIC that are availble today - 64KRAM/ROM access aren't difficult, it seems. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri May 7 13:21:26 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Life with PDP-11's. Message-ID: In 1977 I started out with an 11/35 with 4 RK05 drives. System was on one pack, programs on another pack, data was stored on 2 packs. Software was hard coded to look for 2 Megs of data files at a time. When we got the RP04 we made it look like 20 RK05's to the application software. In about 1980 our R&D lab had upgraded from a PDP11/35 to a PDP11/70 system with one RP04. We were in a computer room in the middle of a warehouse, when we asked for more AC they said we could have an additional air conditioner. About a week later a sawsall blade came through the wall of the computer room as they cut a hole for a new window air conditioner. The output side was in the general warehouse space! We were a little mad because nobody warned us about the dust flying into the computer room. We shutdown until the AC was installed. It did cool the room down a lot. Only having one RP04 was a problem. Whenever a backup was scheduled I took the system pack and the backup pack in the back of my Toyota to another computer room a mile away so that I could do a standalone backup. Nothing like walking across the parking lot with the system disk in one hand and the backup copy in the other. I was careful not to drop either pack. Later we thought about getting a VAX 11/730 but decide the 11/70 was fast enough. Mike From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 13:38:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Hitachi HN27C1024HG-85 Message-ID: I've got 16 Hitachi HN27C1025HG-85 EPROMs on a board I just salvaged from a photocopier. I figure these would be useful to someone. Any interest? Make an offer... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri May 7 14:24:28 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405071924.MAA28370@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came >across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, >and CDRW media. > >I'm thinking the best long term storage solution is... paper printouts. How >retro :) > ---snip--- The only real chance is to make sure that the data has redundant storage. Paper burns well. Why is it that many of the classic systems we like have no docs. These docs were on paper. One type of storage is no solution at all. When I look at things like older floppies, the biggest failure I've seen was the higher end floppies with the inner liners. The self sticking adhesive eventually migrated through the liner to the disk surface. Of course wear and tear is an issue for those in constant use but I'm more concerned here with archiving. As you can easily see there is no especially great storage media. Each has its downfalls. Redundancy in media types as well as redundancy in the actual data stored are the only chances we have. As the article points out, there are unforeseen problems with most every single method. Any valid system must allow for this and respond to this in a preplanned procedure. I store my valued information on as many storage types as I can. There are practical limits for me. I try to get others to duplicate what I have ( with limited success ). What if my house burned. What if the roof fails and the rain comes in. What if I die. What if, what if.... We are solidly into the "Lost Information Age". Dwight From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 14:50:56 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405071950.i47Joucd001969@spies.com> store as much as possible on multiple hard drives, in multiple systems, utilizing good backup strategies. == How much of your PERQ software is stored this way? So far, I've not been able to find anyone who has a copy of POS or any other PERQ operating system that I can get to try to revive my machine, even though there are several people who 'have it somewhere' From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 14:53:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> > The only real chance is to make sure that the data has redundant storage. Paper burns well. Why is it that many of the classic systems we like have no docs. These docs were on paper. One type of storage is no solution at all. === This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org >> I << don't want to have the only surviving copy of a paper document or program. The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs that dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 15:02:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri May 7 15:21:06 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1083961266.978.31.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 16:02, Joe R. wrote: > > Hey Joe, that's Astro Too in Melbourne. I used to go there a *LOT* when I lived in Palm Bay. They got lots of ex nasa and air force stuff. From thompson at new.rr.com Fri May 7 16:18:48 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? Message-ID: Does the "gamer" lifestyle include classic computers or are we unlikely to see Sellam on there again? Comcast Agrees to Purchase TechTV Thursday, March 25, 2004 Comcast recently announced that it has signed an agreement to acquire TechTV, a cable network focused on cutting-edge technology and the impact of technology on daily life, from Vulcan Programming Inc. When the deal closes, Tech TV will be merged with G4, the Comcast-owned television network devoted to video games and the "gamer" lifestyle. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri May 7 16:27:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? Message-ID: <200405072127.OAA28472@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > > > Joe > Caught us with our pants down :( Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 15:47:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: What did you guys miss this one? In-Reply-To: <1083961266.978.31.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040507160258.0083b710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507164715.0083b850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:21 PM 5/7/04 -0400, you wrote: >On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 16:02, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > >Hey Joe, that's Astro Too in Melbourne. I used to go there a *LOT* when >I lived in Palm Bay. They got lots of ex nasa and air force stuff. > > > Yeap, that's the place. That and Astro I are a couple of my favorite scrounging spots. BTW do you know know that they've moved a lot bigger building? They're in the process of building an even larger one. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 15:48:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Wow! TI-99/8 Hex-Bus Disk Drive/Controller In-Reply-To: <63833AD2-9FBF-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040506202921.008615f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507164815.0083cb90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Gee. For ONLY $738!!! Joe At 05:42 PM 5/6/04 -0700, you wrote: >Yep, and someone won it for $738! > >On May 6, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Joe R. wrote: > >> Did you guys see this? >> >> >> Joe >> > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri May 7 16:32:57 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? References: Message-ID: <00ae01c4347a$dded08d0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Thompson" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? > > Does the "gamer" lifestyle include classic computers or are we unlikely to > see Sellam on there again? > > Comcast Agrees to Purchase TechTV > Thursday, March 25, 2004 > > > Comcast recently announced that it has signed an agreement to acquire > TechTV, a cable network focused on cutting-edge technology and the impact of > technology on daily life, from Vulcan Programming Inc. When the deal > closes, Tech TV will be merged with G4, the Comcast-owned television network > devoted to video games and the "gamer" lifestyle. > > http://www.fuckedcompany.com/ All 285 TechTV employees fired, maybe they are just breaking their contracts to rehire them at minimum wage. For the most part gamers lust after the latest and greatest equipment, and maybe a few old school systems and consoles. From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri May 7 16:36:56 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <409C0178.7060409@nktelco.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Tuesday 20 April 2004 11:19, Lee Courtney wrote: > > >>Patrick, >> >>Very nice. Would you like contributions to build up the library? >> >>Lee Courtney >> >> > >Yes, I would. I was going to put that in the email, but it slipped my >mind. Contributions are always welcome. At the moment, I'm getting >pictures out of Peripheral Handbooks, so I shouldn't need any more >pictures from one of those. I'd definately appreciate some color >photos. Some pictures, like the TU77/78, just look like crap in the >handbook (bad/no contrast). > >Pat > > > I have a few board scans at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/modules/ There are Qbus, OMNIBUS, and some PDP-14 boards. Feel free to take what you want. -chuck From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 16:36:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Paul Thompson wrote: > Does the "gamer" lifestyle include classic computers or are we unlikely to > see Sellam on there again? > > Comcast Agrees to Purchase TechTV > Thursday, March 25, 2004 It's hard to say what will come of TechTV. The merger is the reason Leo left The Screen Savers. I suppose he's been around long enough to know that these sorts of buy-outs only end up being a net negative for the veterans. >From the press reports, I do know that they plan to move the main studio down to LA where G4 is produced. G4 is an obviously inferior station to TechTV. At least the impression I got of it when I had Comcast was that it was pretty lame (one show was one half hour of just virtual "tours" through video game scenery). If G4 is smart, they'll keep everything as is in SF and merge whatever good G4 content they have into TechTV and just continue to build their audience. If they are stupid, or their actions are inherently aimed at increasing revenues which translates into "being stupid" to a veteran audience--and "being stupid" is generally the case with big conglomerates--they'll gut TechTV, close down the SF studio (or just turn it into a "bureau"), try to move the programming to LA where the tech scene is a wannabe of the Silicon Valley, and die a slow, painful death. Video games are of course the main industry of the computer scene now, or at least the one that garners the most revenue and advertising dollars where the typical consumer is involved, so for sure they will try to gear the station more towards gaming. But if they decide to phase out TechTV's core programming, which is their computer help shows, it'll be a mistake. There will always be geeks, and geeks like technology in general, not just video games. Anyway, it depends on what their marketing wizards determine is their core market. I'm sure if people wrote in en masse to suggest that G4/TechTV keep it's core tech-specific programming then that would make an impact. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 16:40:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: <00ae01c4347a$dded08d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > http://www.fuckedcompany.com/ > > All 285 TechTV employees fired, maybe they are just breaking their contracts > to rehire them at minimum wage. For the most part gamers lust after the > latest and greatest equipment, and maybe a few old school systems and > consoles. My fucking gawd. Well, that's timely. I really can't believe this. Kind of shocking actually. Actually, *amazingly* shocking. I mean, what are they going to do? Run Anime for the next 7 days until they hire new hosts and come up with new shows? This makes no fucking sense whatsoever. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri May 7 16:21:47 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 References: <409ACEAD.4030601@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200405072121.RAA3230187@shell.TheWorld.com> >VOTRAX, that brings back memories. I once used one of those; it was a >serial-port model, with phonemes chosen by characters sent down a >serial line from the host...it was a kinda fun toy. I got one, new in the box, a year or so ago at a flea. I have yet to actually try it (what with all my stuff in deep storage at the moment -- but poised to come home to my new house) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allain at panix.com Fri May 7 16:51:28 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Hitachi HN27C1024HG-85 References: Message-ID: <007001c4347d$73e28d40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I've got 16 Hitachi HN27C1025HG-85 EPROMs on a board I > just salvaged from a photocopier. > I figure these would be useful to someone. Any interest? In gerneral it would be nice to have a www page to go to to decode numbered EPROM types for use when pulled/erased/rewritten. I have a bunch of pulls but I'll admit _little_ knowledge as to where they can be used. John A. From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri May 7 16:54:50 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <409C05AA.2070507@nktelco.net> Joe R. wrote: >At 08:07 PM 5/6/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >>I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have >>a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty >>primitive. >> >> > > I'd like to get a copy of your manual. > > I will try to do that. >>I also have an 8085 emulator called a Millenium, but I don't remember >>the company name. >> >> > > Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens >up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I >also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" >thick. > > > The box is more the size and shape of say an IBM Selectric typewriter. The housing is yellow anodized aluminum though I think. > Joe > > > > >>I have been wanting to play with it, but it seems that anything that >>could be done with an 8085 could be done with a PIC and in one package... >> >> >> I meant no disrespect to the 8085, only that anything I might want to do with a microcontroller in my basement on weekends I can do more easily with a PIC than an 8085, so I have not had the pleasure of using either tool. >>-chuck >> >> >> -chuck From tony.eros at machm.org Fri May 7 17:00:30 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Digitalker mm54104 In-Reply-To: <200405072121.RAA3230187@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200405072159.RAA50389@smtp.9netave.com> I have a VOTRAX as well, sitting on a shelf in my office on top of a DECtalk unit. I've got to start playing more with this stuff... -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Megan Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:22 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Digitalker mm54104 >VOTRAX, that brings back memories. I once used one of those; it was a >serial-port model, with phonemes chosen by characters sent down a >serial line from the host...it was a kinda fun toy. I got one, new in the box, a year or so ago at a flea. I have yet to actually try it (what with all my stuff in deep storage at the moment -- but poised to come home to my new house) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 17:01:51 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals Message-ID: <200405072201.i47M1phV008797@spies.com> People who have been thinking about building an IDE MSCP Qbus controller may find these two manuals interesting: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 17:05:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: <409C0178.7060409@nktelco.net> References: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507180555.00875100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I missed the origianl message about this but I have pictures of a LOT of DEC cards. If the original sender will contact me directly we can set up something and I can FTP a bunch of them to you. Joe At 05:36 PM 5/7/04 -0400, you wrote: >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >>On Tuesday 20 April 2004 11:19, Lee Courtney wrote: >> >> >>>Patrick, >>> >>>Very nice. Would you like contributions to build up the library? >>> >>>Lee Courtney >>> >>> >> >>Yes, I would. I was going to put that in the email, but it slipped my >>mind. Contributions are always welcome. At the moment, I'm getting >>pictures out of Peripheral Handbooks, so I shouldn't need any more >>pictures from one of those. I'd definately appreciate some color >>photos. Some pictures, like the TU77/78, just look like crap in the >>handbook (bad/no contrast). >> >>Pat >> >> >> >I have a few board scans at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/modules/ There are >Qbus, OMNIBUS, and some PDP-14 boards. Feel free to take what you want. > >-chuck > > From aek at spies.com Fri May 7 17:13:46 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Millenium ICE Message-ID: <200405072213.i47MDk7r011737@spies.com> > Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens >up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I >also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" >thick. I'd like to add it to the scans if you get a chance to scan the manual. I've just put up a user's manual for the Futuredata. And, I'm working through the 64000 manuals I have access to. From arcarlini at iee.org Fri May 7 17:17:11 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <20040507175824.GH12848@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001e01c43481$0b4b8260$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Vinyl LP's, carefully maintained, have a lifetime estimated > to be 100 years or more; when played on high-quality > turntables, wear isn't really an issue. Assuming you don't mind the $10,000 outlay, you can get a turntable that uses an optical (laser) pickup. Then wear *really* isn't an issue. Data density and media fragility might be though. > Unfortunately, no mention was made of CDs using a gold layer > which is supposed to greatly increase their durability. > Didn't Kodak discontinue their manufacture of such gold CDs a > while back due to a lack of demand for them? I'm not sure you can rely on "Brand X" being invariant over any substantial period of time, i.e. the media you tested 6 months ago may well be manufactured slightly differently (or completely differently) now. Bulk buying may not help either - I expect that the stuff degrades on the shelf even before it is used. I'm not sure that worrying about the next 50 years is appropriate anyway. We're losing a good deal of stuff right now because it's not being archived in the first place. Once it's digital (in some reasonable form: HD, CD, DVD, etc.) then replicating losslessly (assuming you have some sort of checksumming and multiple copies for when one set of media goes bad) is at least feasible. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 7 17:27:11 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: <200405072201.i47M1phV008797@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040507172158.03572140@mail.ubanproductions.com> Thanks Al, I've been considering building an IDE/CompactFlash Unibus board for a while, but I don't see the advantage of implementing MSCP over just a couple of controller types (say RK05 and RP11). I say this because MSCP seems fairly complex and I know that at least some of the OS that I intend to use don't have drivers for MSCP. Isn't an oldest common denominator rule the way to go? --tom At 03:01 PM 5/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: >People who have been thinking about building an IDE MSCP >Qbus controller may find these two manuals interesting: > >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 7 17:46:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Millenium ICE In-Reply-To: <200405072213.i47MDk7r011737@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040507184625.008c2320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I doubt that I'll have time to scan it but I can loan it to you for a short time. I love to scan it (and a hundred other things!) but I know that I'll never get around to it. Joe At 03:13 PM 5/7/04 -0700, you wrote: > >> Millenium! If is a yellowish box about 15" w x 8" x 8" and the top opens >>up. I have a couple of them, one for 6800 and one for z-80 or 8080 IIRC. I >>also have a manual for them. It's a 8 1/2" x 11" three binder about 3 or 4" >>thick. > > >I'd like to add it to the scans if you get a chance to scan the manual. > >I've just put up a user's manual for the Futuredata. > >And, I'm working through the 64000 manuals I have access to. > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 17:53:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media) In-Reply-To: Dave Dunfield "Stiction (was: Atari TT030 install media)" (May 7, 5:58) References: <200405071058.i47AwAhc024277@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <10405072353.ZM1173@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 5:58, Dave Dunfield wrote: > Popped the top off, and immediately discovered that the platters did > not want to turn. [...] > I don't recall why, but "just for kicks", I took a fine cloth, > polished the spot on the platter [...] > Blew out the drive with a bit of air, and put the top back on, and > installed it in a machine to "see what would happen". > > Not suprisingly the drive spun up right away. So, I low-level formatted the drive > and ran a test --- then I got a suprise --- NO ERRORS! I can't remember if I told this story before... I had a machine that ran for a couple of years; never powered off because it was a pain to get the drive to spin again. Well, the inevitable happened, and I had a power cut last August, which outlasted the UPS. This time the usual tricks didn't work, and I ended up taking the drive into the workshop. Even giving it a higher voltage on the 12V supply wouldn't make it start, so with nothing more to lose, off came the top. I discovered I could release the brake by hand, but even so I had to apply 14V (instead of 12V :-)) from a big bench PSU directly to the innards, and flick the disk with my finger to get it to start. However, once started, it would run on 12V, though it wouldn't restart normally if I let it stop. I had to think about how to keep that drive spinning while I took it back to the machine. Don't try this at home ;-) It went something like this: connect a PSU from a PC to the smallest available UPS, and stack the PSU and and the topless drive on the UPS . Start the drive as described above, then whip off the bench power leads and connect the PC PSU before it has a chance to spin down completely. I seem to remember using a paper clip to disable the brake while doing that. Unplug the UPS from the mains and carry the whole lot up to the office, with the drive still spinning. Connect to the computer, cross fingers, and power up the computer. To my surprise and releif, I was able to read almost all of the drive. I only lost a couple of files. Needless to say I replaced the drive after that :-) I've taken the tops off small drives a few times. I don't recommend this, because I may just have been lucky, but as a last resort it's allowed me to rescue the data from a few stuck or damaged drives. Except for the most recent one (I took the wrong screw out and finished the drive off). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 17:55:07 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Re: cd longevity" (May 7, 13:17) References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10405072355.ZM1176@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 13:17, John Lawson wrote: > On Fri, 7 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > This has been discussed on this list a few times before... but I just came > > across a rather detailed article about the topic of longevity of CD, DVD, > > and CDRW media. > Actually, if ya wanna go techno-retro - we found (MGM Studios / Library > of Congress / Filmbond Archival Institute) that the most long-lived medium > for this kind of work is optically encoded data on well-processed Mylar > linear film of some kind. With proper encoding techniques, one can get > bit densities of more than a megabyte per inch - of standard 35MM > sprocketed stock - of course an order of magnitude more using 70MM - and > even more if wider stock is used. So our discussion a few weeks ago about film resolution was relevant after all ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 7 18:04:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> Message-ID: <003601c43487$9d02c410$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al; Want a "real" mirror of bitsavers? Just let me know. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: cd longevity > > > > > The only real chance is to make sure that the data has redundant > storage. Paper burns well. Why is it that many of the classic > systems we like have no docs. These docs were on paper. One type > of storage is no solution at all. > > === > > This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org > > >> I << don't want to have the only surviving copy of a paper document > or program. > > The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs that > dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri May 7 18:06:10 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <682892ab4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > But if they decide to phase out TechTV's > core programming, which is their computer help shows, it'll be a mistake. > There will always be geeks, and geeks like technology in general, not just > video games. This is strangely reminiscent of what BskyB (the UK "Sky" satellite TV co) did to "[.tv]". First they started it up as "The Computer Channel" and All Was Well. A few games shows, but the vast majority of the stuff was actually of general interest to computer users/geeks (delete as appropriate). The name got changed to "[.tv]" at some point, but the core programming remained mostly the same. In August 2000 (or was it 2001?) Sky ditched .tv. Why? "Not enough viewers" to put it bluntly. TTBOMK, at least three petitions have been sent to Sky asking them to start broadcasting the TechTV international feed over the Sky system - Sky's response? "No". I think one of the petitions had around 250,000 signatures... Over the past year, Sky have moved onto an "Increase prices, decrease choice [channels], increase length of advert breaks". Needless to say, the subscription was cancelled as soon as it came up for payment again. As an example, when Sky shut down the analogue satellite service (on the Astra 1 satellites), the cost of a base subscription was around ?8 per month. Now they've moved over to digital (on Astra 2) it's been upped to ?19 per month for what is effectively an inferior service. I've no objections to Sky using MPEG, what really annoys me is that they've pushed far too many channels onto the satellite. The bitrate is low enoguh to produce noticeable artifacting. Nice fact: The Office of Fair Trading investigated Sky's subscription costs not long ago. Their opinion? "Sky subscription fees are high, but not excessive". My opinion? Two million subscribers and none of them can be bothered to look at how much the charges have gone up. [ Rant mode off ] > Anyway, it depends on what their marketing wizards determine is their core > market. Sky's core market seems to be the "couch potato" market, i.e. "I'll watch whatever's on just because it's on." Their basic response to every single criticism seems to be "Ignore it and it'll go away". Damn marketdroids... > I'm sure if people wrote in en masse to suggest that G4/TechTV > keep it's core tech-specific programming then that would make an impact. This may sound a bit cynical but, well, don't be so sure... My experience of these companies is that they ignore basically everything that their customers say, unless it makes significant financial sense to listen. If they were going to lose, say, 10,000 out of 1million viewers, they'd ignore every one of the 10,000. If they were going to lose 750,000 out of 1mil, they *might* listen. Which brings us neatly back to the "couch potato" mentality - "It's on so I'll watch it, and I won't complain about the extortionate prices". Later, -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hey! Your Trakball is upside down! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 18:05:38 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup Message-ID: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. Ultimately I need it transferred to a hard disk but DAT (DDS or DDS2) or DLT (anything that can be read on a DLT7000) would be an excellent intermediate step. Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can provide the DDS or DLT tape. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 18:18:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at May 6, 4 11:56:06 pm Message-ID: > > > What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? > The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit > dirty and stick when pressed. Same method as usual. Take the whole thing apart as far as it will easily go (take everything out of the case, for example), then clean the case parts with anti-static foam cleaner (Eletrolube, Servisol, etc make this), clean the PCBs with propan-2-ol (isoproyl alcohol, etc). For the keyboard, pull the keycaps (make sure you have a diagram first!). Clean them all separately (this takes quite a time, but it's worth it!). If this is the keyboard I think it is, the key plungers and springs pull out of the plastic frame. Clean those too, and clean inside the frame housings with proan-2-ol. That should get it going again. -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 7 18:56:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: Al Kossow "qbus mscp ctlr manuals" (May 7, 15:01) References: <200405072201.i47M1phV008797@spies.com> Message-ID: <10405080056.ZM1325@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 15:01, Al Kossow wrote: > > People who have been thinking about building an IDE MSCP > Qbus controller may find these two manuals interesting: > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf We also mentioned DEC's UDA50 Programmer's Documentation Kit a while ago. I had a chance to play with a new scanner at work today, so I've provided scans of all three documents in the set, as TIFFs and PDFs. Due to lack of space I can't keep them there very long, but for the moment they're at http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pnt1/MSCP/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 7 19:23:48 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <200405071950.i47Joucd001969@spies.com> References: <200405071950.i47Joucd001969@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040508002348.GJ12848@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Al Kossow, from writings of Fri, May 07, 2004 at 12:50:56PM -0700: > How much of your PERQ software is stored this way? Alas, only a small percentage of it... most of it is stored on multiple floppies and tapes. Not good for long-term storage, I'll be the first to admit, but I've been unable to do otherwise thus far, but now, with all of the inexpensive hard drives, it would be much less expensive to do so than it would have been several years ago. > So far, I've not been able to find anyone who has a copy of > POS or any other PERQ operating system that I can get to try > to revive my machine, even though there are several people > who 'have it somewhere' My PERQs have been somewhat inaccessible, but I'm finishing up some rearranging that will allow me to get to them more easily, so if I can get one of them working, I can at least try to clone you a working POS and Accent distribution. Wow, you're in for some fun if you've never installed POS on a hard drive before! You'll get to play with all of the neat toys like scavenger, etc. and spend many, many, hours getting POS installed (Accent is easier, but you'll need to use POS to format the hard drive, etc.) If I can get things working again, then I can help you; I'm just hoping that my POS dist. tapes are still good, but if my hard drive is ok, I can just copy that onto a tape (once I get the cable to the tape drive repaired and ascertain that the tape drive, and the tape controller board I built, still work) and create boot and run floppies for you. Unfortunately, I pulled the wires loose to the connector to my PERQ's tape drive while moving the PERQs. I'm looking forward to hopefully being able to do all this, since you've made some good steps forward towards archiving software from PERQ tapes (thanks!). -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri May 7 19:53:28 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <10405072355.ZM1176@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <008301c43444$ffef2660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <10405072355.ZM1176@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040507174744.F70270@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 7 May 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > So our discussion a few weeks ago about film resolution was relevant > after all ;-) Look at some of the old work by Emmanuel Goldberg on the "Rapid Selector", particularly the parts that were lifted by Vannevar Bush for his "Memex". For lower data densities, consider punched tape. OR,... append your data to the "Stolen Altair" message! It will bounce and echo forever, coming back once every six months? Be sure to retain hardware, software, and knowledge of how to retrieve the data! You don't want to create another hard-sectored system that nobody knows how to read (such as Stonehenge)! From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 20:09:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: <682892ab4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: I think in this (as is usually the case) it came down to a financial decision. Vulcan wasn't making any money off TechTV, which is why they decided to sell. The sad fact is that TechTV only worked when there was an enormous tech boom and you had millions of wannabes watching so that they could keep up with all the latest tech trends. Now that the tech boom is over and all the carpet baggers have gone back to whence they came, there is also no longer a real market for TechTV. The only viewership they have now is the hardcore geeks, and that really isn't enough to carry an entire station, as the programming additions within the past year or so have demonstrated ("Conspiracies", "Anime Unleashed", etc.) What makes absolutely no sense, however, is why Comcast would buy the channel, then fire all the talent as well as the crew. Unless they pull some neat trick out of their ass, they just dumped all their viewership along with the staff. The reason people watched TechTV, aside from liking the live programs, is because they were loyal to the hosts, to whom there was an almost tangible relationship. What is Comcast thinking? Who knows. But from here and now, it looks like a really stupid, insane move. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cfandt at netsync.net Fri May 7 20:33:52 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) In-Reply-To: <10405040830.ZM1548@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040507174227.026e4120@pop3.norton.antivirus> This is great Pete, thanks very much. I printed and filed the index with my disks. In a month or two I may have time to fire up my Micro PDP-11 and see how they work. But first . . . Two more questions: 1.) Are the HELP.TXT files found on a couple of disks fairly detailed or are they rather terse? Is an XXDP manual online anywhere? I checked bitsavers.org already - just something on DEC/X11 extant. In one of those X11 manuals mention is made of an XXDP+ manual with an Order Number of AC-F348?-MC (Yes, there's a "?" printed in that number. See page three of http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP/AC-F055D-MC_X11crossRef.pdf .) 2.) Pete indicates these are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a microPDP-11/23. What functionality will they have on my 11/73 (or a 11/53 if I build one up from a heap of parts on hand)?? Thanks for your help on this folks. -Chris F. Upon the date 08:30 AM 5/4/04 +0100, Pete Turnbull said something like: >On May 3, 19:00, Christian Fandt wrote: > > I've got a set of DEC diagnostic floppies (RX50) and I don't have the > > decoding scheme at hand to figure out the part number and therefore >their > > usage. I don't know which machine these run on -- Micro PDP-11 or >MicroVAX. > > > > I sort of suspect they *may* be for my uVAX II because they came with >a > > heap of other goodies, including a working uPDP-11/73, at the same >time I > > got said uVAX II. > > > > Given the part numbers listed below could anyone tell me about them >(other > > than the obvious ;-) )? > > > > BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS > > BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 > > BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 > > BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 > > BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 > >These are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a microPDP-11/23. > >Here's a listing from my set: > >DIR DU1: (CZXD1B1 Field Service Tests 1) > >ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION > > 1 HUDIB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 5 000073 ?.? > 2 HSAAD1.SYS 22-JUN-83 24 000100 ?.? > 3 HMDLD1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000130 ?.? > 4 HMDXC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000151 ?.? > 5 HMDYC1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000172 ?.? > 6 HDDDC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000213 ?.? > 7 HDDKB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 2 000216 ?.? > 8 HDDLC0.SYS 3-MAR-83 4 000220 ?.? > 9 HDMMB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000224 ?.? > 10 HDMTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000227 ?.? > 11 HDMSB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000232 ?.? > 12 HMDQA1.SYS 4-AUG-83 17 000235 ?.? > 13 HDDQA0.SYS 24-MAR-83 4 000257 ?.? > 14 XTSAA0.OBJ 14-JAN-82 10 000263 > 15 HDDXB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000275 ?.? > 16 HDDYB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000300 ?.? > 17 HDKBB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000303 ?.? > 18 HDLPA0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000304 ?.? > 19 HDPDB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 3 000305 ?.? > 20 XRQAB0.OBJ 1-OCT-83 18 000310 > 21 HDPTB0.SYS 3-MAR-83 1 000332 ?.? > 22 HELP .TXT 3-MAR-83 14 000333 <<<<<<< > 23 UPD2 .BIN 3-MAR-83 25 000351 -- snippola -- NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From vp at cs.drexel.edu Fri May 7 20:56:29 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: HP 85-86 roms Message-ID: <200405080156.i481uTV3010071@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Olivier De Smet wrote: > I was wondering if it's possible to use rom dump as binary program > (loaded with loadbin), perhaps with some "relocations" ? Unfortunately this is not possible, unless you can disassemble the ROM and then reassemble the code with the desired "relocation" address (ORG). This is also the reason why HP-86/87 binary programs are incompatible with HP-83/85 machines and vice versa. A better bet is to try to find a programmable ROM drawer on eBay etc. Check also www.series80.org for other info on HP 85-86. Best Regards **vp From vp at cs.drexel.edu Fri May 7 21:06:43 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: IEM HP-IB devices (was Cool stuff!) Message-ID: <200405080206.i4826hbT010254@queen.cs.drexel.edu> "Joe R." wrote: > About a month ago I picked up what I thought were a couple of HP-IB > disk drives made by a compnay by the name of IEM of Ft. Collins Colorado. I have an IEM HP-IB tape drive (a 4400 series). I posted a similar request for info on cctalk a couple of months ago, but nobody responded. My box has an HP-IB to SCSI motherboard and an HP 4.0Gb DAT SCSI tape drive. > [...] It has a LCD > display on and it [...] There are also three buttons on it > marked Select, Next and Previous. Mine has the same panel and buttons. I tried your trick with the select button and it gave me a similar demo (nice trick, thanks). It claims to work with MPE and HPUX and to be compatible with the HP 7978 tape drive (and the C1511 whatever that is). Unfortunately, my Integral PC does not recognize this drive. I suspect that the motherboard for the tape drive is the same as the one in your optical jukebox, but with different ROMs. There is also a DIP switch in the back (for setting HP-IB address and various options) and a bunch of jumpers inside. I have no idea what they are supposed to do. If you want I can take a photo of the motherboard and send it to you. **vp From aw288 at osfn.org Fri May 7 21:09:20 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I think in this (as is usually the case) it came down to a financial > decision. Vulcan wasn't making any money off TechTV, which is why they > decided to sell. The sad fact is that TechTV only worked when there was > an enormous tech boom and you had millions of wannabes watching so that > they could keep up with all the latest tech trends. Now that the tech > boom is over and all the carpet baggers have gone back to whence they > came, there is also no longer a real market for TechTV. The only > viewership they have now is the hardcore geeks, and that really isn't > enough to carry an entire station, as the programming additions within the > past year or so have demonstrated ("Conspiracies", "Anime Unleashed", > etc.) Frankly, I never liked Tech TV, and very few of my hardcore geek friends liked it as well. I think viewership was really low all around. > What makes absolutely no sense, however, is why Comcast would buy the > channel, then fire all the talent as well as the crew. They could have purchased it just for the "license". While the cable channels are not regulated by the FCC like the broadcast stations, some companies (Infinity, Clear Channel, etc.) do this exact thing to independent radio stations just to get that "slot". It has nothing to do with the format, the employees, the listeners, or anything else, for that matter. Just the fancy bit of paper hanging on the wall. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ohh at drizzle.com Fri May 7 21:22:43 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: <682892ab4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: Regarding the death of TechTV... > > I'm sure if people wrote in en masse to suggest that G4/TechTV > > keep it's core tech-specific programming then that would make an impact. > This may sound a bit cynical but, well, don't be so sure... My experience of > these companies is that they ignore basically everything that their customers > say, unless it makes significant financial sense to listen. If they were > going to lose, say, 10,000 out of 1million viewers, they'd ignore every one > of the 10,000. If they were going to lose 750,000 out of 1mil, they *might* > listen. Which brings us neatly back to the "couch potato" mentality - "It's > on so I'll watch it, and I won't complain about the extortionate prices". This seems a good moment to mention one of those horrible little ideas most people don't like contemplating, especially when it's phrased this way: In television, the viewers are not the customers. The _advertisers_ are the customers. The viewers are... the product. :/ -O.- (Soylent Green _is_ people. ) From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 7 21:46:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > Frankly, I never liked Tech TV, and very few of my hardcore geek friends > liked it as well. I think viewership was really low all around. I never watched it regularly. However, I appreciated it because it was one outlet for me to exercise my TV star fantasies :) > They could have purchased it just for the "license". While the cable > channels are not regulated by the FCC like the broadcast stations, some > companies (Infinity, Clear Channel, etc.) do this exact thing to > independent radio stations just to get that "slot". It has nothing to do > with the format, the employees, the listeners, or anything else, for that > matter. Just the fancy bit of paper hanging on the wall. Yep, that's probably the case here. Oh well... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Fri May 7 21:54:33 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:23 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I never watched it regularly. However, I appreciated it because it was > one outlet for me to exercise my TV star fantasies :) I thought your TV star fantasy was to face Sakai in the artichoke battle. > Yep, that's probably the case here. Oh well... Basically, the broadcast and cable industries are pretty disgusting. Very disgusting, in fact. I rate Clear Channel worse than Microsoft. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri May 7 21:57:11 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: <10405080056.ZM1325@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040508025711.16349.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> already gone? vax, 3900 --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 7, 15:01, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > People who have been thinking about building an > IDE MSCP > > Qbus controller may find these two manuals > interesting: > > > > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0088_DQ226um_Dec85.pdf > > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/webster/SRQD11um_1984.pdf > > We also mentioned DEC's UDA50 Programmer's > Documentation Kit a while > ago. I had a chance to play with a new scanner at > work today, so I've > provided scans of all three documents in the set, as > TIFFs and PDFs. > Due to lack of space I can't keep them there very > long, but for the > moment they're at > > http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pnt1/MSCP/ > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri May 7 23:50:26 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? Message-ID: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? How do I load it again? Directory list? the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my commands? Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't see anything on DOS sites. Thanks! From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 01:07:30 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> Message-ID: <200405080609.CAA11088@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org [...] > The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs > that dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) I run no webserver and don't want to change that. But depending on how much space is required, I tentatively volunteer to run an FTP-access mirror - or even just a disaster-recovery backup of it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From nico at farumdata.dk Sat May 8 01:24:36 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405071924.MAA28370@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000e01c434c5$24a0b4d0$2201a8c0@finans> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > I store my valued information on as many storage types as I can. > There are practical limits for me. I try to get others to duplicate > what I have ( with limited success ). What if my house burned. > What if the roof fails and the rain comes in. What if I die. > What if, what if.... > We are solidly into the "Lost Information Age". --- AMEN ! Even the States Archives do not realise the problem, although I've told them time and time again. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 From nico at farumdata.dk Sat May 8 01:27:48 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup References: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002701c434c5$955d5520$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a > tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. > Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can > provide the DDS or DLT tape. Denmark good enough ? Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 01:49:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405080659.CAA11273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Oh, it's a Kriz tablet (after Stan Kriz at 3 rivers). > I have never fully understood how they work either. The 'wires' in > the PCB carry electrical currents, and are sequenced in some way by > the microcontroller. The puck/pen contains a pickup coil, the output > of which is amplified and fed back to the microcontroller. [...] > And the resolution is _much_ higher than the spacing between the > 'wires'. Much. The manual documents resolution settings as high as 20 counts per mm; experimenting with it, I find it actually includes settings that appear to attempt 1000 lines/inch and 1000 lines/mm, based on dividing full-scale counts by pad size (in-my-head estimates; I could be out by a factor of two or so). Of course, I doubt it's accurate to anything like ?1 count at those settings. :-) Actually, it's not accurate to ?1 count even at the documented settings. I find that when I turn on stream mode and don't move the puck, I get a stream of identical samples. If I turn on request mode and request reports (at human typing speeds), I get identical reports - but they are a few counts different from the reports I get in stream mode. I conjecture that there is some kind of residual carryover when doing two readings in quick succession, as stream mode does.... > One day I'll disassemble the microcontroller ROM and make sense of it > all... Mine has a 27xxx-series UVEPROM (2732, I think it was), and it's socketed. I'm very tempted to pull it and dump it, and see how much of a schematic I can extract from the pcb (the only real problem is component-side etch runs that run under components). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From nogard at cishollywood.com Fri May 7 17:30:02 2004 From: nogard at cishollywood.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen Message-ID: <200405072247.i47Mlfhc031273@huey.classiccmp.org> Bought one of Ebay recently, but it comes without software. Was wondering if anybody might be able to provide it to me in some form? Thanks, Christopher Ryan From stokesp at earthlink.net Fri May 7 18:06:36 2004 From: stokesp at earthlink.net (Peter Stokes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: FS: Franklin Ace 2200 CPU Message-ID: <409C167C.4010507@earthlink.net> A while ago I retrieved a Franklin Ace 2200 from a neighbour who was throwing it out. Well most of one, anyway. I have the CPU and the joystick. No keyboard, no screen. The computer is clean and while I obviously can't really tell, it appears to boot. I believe it has 128K RAM (8 4164 chips on a riser card and 8 3764s on motherboard). No expansion cards. There was a floppy in each drive; when you power it up it beeps and disks spin and click away for a while like it's loading its DOS. I know next to nothing about this system, and don't want to get into diagnosing anything... Until finding this one I knew them only from cheesy Byte ads when I was 10. I grabbed this one for good obsolete computer karma, so someday when my Atari 800XL craps out I hope there'll be someone who snagged one from a neighbour for a dollar back when neighbours still had those things, and I'll pay him well. Five bucks plus shipping (your choice). It's built like a tank, so the shipping is not going to be free. If you live around Boston MA you can come get it. Respond by direct e-mail: I don't normally read this mailing list, it was suggested to me by another old computer enthusiast. Enjoy and good day, Peter. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri May 7 20:56:26 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Life with PDP-11's. Message-ID: <200405080156.VAA3265607@shell.TheWorld.com> >Nothing like walking across the parking lot with the system disk in one >hand and the backup copy in the other. I was careful not to drop either >pack. I joined the RT-11 development team in 1978... and got my first office in the mill. At that time we had a lab full of systems where we did our development and testing. Occasionally there were fire alarms and evacuation drills at the mill. It was not unusual to see a bunch of us with our RK05 (or RL01,02) disks which contained the most recent RT sources, out in the parking lot. The first thought many of us had when the alarms went off was to power down the drive and get the disk... then calmly exit the building...:-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pzachary at sasquatch.com Fri May 7 22:05:25 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Cleaning a *DIRTY* old VT52 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49351.216.218.236.136.1083985525.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> Take the case off and scrub with something pretty harsh, I use bon-ami but comet works too, this will take off much of the yellow/oxidized plastic then dry and armorall or equiv. keys, remove and wash as dishes, perhaps some simple green and a light alchohol rinse. I would be very carefull about contact cleaner, some of it will soften keycap plastic/ attack the lettering (I've wound up with unlabled keys) there are a range of cleaners, I've been running through several restoring a bunch of hardware that sat outside for 15 years! puretronics contact cleaner (puretronics.com) states that it is safe on plastics but test on an inconspicuous spot first (hmm..) deoxit (caig.com) is what all the sound guys around here use on mixing boards,etc. One of the pricey ones but seems like it might be worth it check the website but I've been using deoxit-D5 as a cleaner, the puretrinics as a rinse for parts I can't get at, then follow with caig progold... congrats on a really fine terminal. Pavl_ > What's the best way to clean up a dirty old VT52? > The case is dirty and some of the keys are a bit > dirty and stick when pressed. > > Ashley From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 02:03:26 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 Message-ID: <200405080833.EAA11445@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. It was sold "tel quel" ("as is"), so it was a bit of a gamble, but I figured if it was broken it'd be even more fun 'cause then I would feel no compunction about opening it up and Investigating. The battery pack appears dead (based on a 1kohm/volt voltmeter, it's producing about .1V) and it didn't come with a wall wart. But the battery pack was visibly made up of four cells, so I figured four rechargeable cells is probably about 5V - and the external power connector is marked 5V. So I hooked it up to 5V from a peecee power supply (peecees are good for _something_; they provide me with power supplies :), and it seems to be in full working order. Even the printer works (though the ribbon appears a little enfeebled). All I need to do is find a manual for the thing. Anyone know of one? Google found me a few places _selling_ scanned copies of the manual, but none civilized enough to have it up for fetching. The thing cost me all of five bucks. :) Maybe not quite on a par with an ASR33, but it's also a lot easier for me to find space for. As yet I may be but a dilettante when it comes to old computing gadgets, but *I* think it has a healthy dose of gamish! /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 05:44:01 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup In-Reply-To: "Nico de Jong" "Re: slightly OT: tape backup" (May 8, 8:27) References: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002701c434c5$955d5520$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <10405081144.ZM1965@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 8, 8:27, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Pete Turnbull" > > Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a > > tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. > > Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can > > provide the DDS or DLT tape. > > Denmark good enough ? If no-one closer offers, yes :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 05:41:22 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt "Re: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing)" (May 7, 21:33) References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040503183957.026a2760@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.2.1.1.2.20040507174227.026e4120@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <10405081141.ZM1962@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 21:33, Christian Fandt wrote: > This is great Pete, thanks very much. I printed and filed the index with my > disks. In a month or two I may have time to fire up my Micro PDP-11 and see > how they work. But first . . . > > Two more questions: > > 1.) Are the HELP.TXT files found on a couple of disks fairly detailed or > are they rather terse? They won't help much with individual diagnostics, but they do tell you how to do things in general. > Is an XXDP manual online anywhere? Some time ago (about 11 years) I created a document about how to use XXDP; it's called "Notes for XXDP+ and XXDP V2 Operating Systems" and it's at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ In fact, IIRC, I put that doc on the web in response to a request from you (Christian) several years ago :-) There are PostScript and (thanks to the kind services of another listmember, Bill King) PDF versions. It's also mirrored on at least one other site which also has some XXDP info. XXDP is an enhanced version of the original XXDP (there's also one we used to refer to as XXDP++, but I'm not sure either name was offical), and V2 is what came out with the later microPDP-11s. V2 is a bit friendlier. The document consists of notes I made in the mid-80s when I was on a DEC maintenance course, plus reformtted stuff from the V2 files. So long as you remember that much of it uses the V2 commands, and replace them with the V1 equivalent, it will be useful. The one thing I never got round to doing -- because I have it on paper,in various forms -- is a list of *exactly* what each diagnostic is. There's a partial (very incomplete) list at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/pdp11/xxdp25.notes.txt See also http://starfish.osfn.org/rcs/pdp-11/xxdp/ Will Kranz also had some stuff -- he was working on how to completely decode an XXDP disk, but his site at earthlink has disapeared. > I checked > bitsavers.org already - just something on DEC/X11 extant. In one of those > X11 manuals mention is made of an XXDP+ manual with an Order Number of > AC-F348?-MC (Yes, there's a "?" printed in that number. See page three of > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP/AC-F055D-MC_X11crossRef.pdf .) I've never seen that, though I'm sure it will exist somewhere. If nowhere else, it should be at the front of any complete set of XXDP microfiche. > 2.) Pete indicates these are a basic set of XXDP (XXDP++) disks for a > microPDP-11/23. What functionality will they have on my 11/73 (or a 11/53 > if I build one up from a heap of parts on hand)?? Actually I think they are XXDP V2, now that I think about it (I don't have a system with an RX50 on it at the moment, to check). They'll test most of the basic hardware in the machine. Read the document and the list I referred to; it'll let you work out what hardware the tests are for. But to actually use certain of them effectively, you really ought to have the listings of the individual diagnostics. They don't all print nice messages; sometimes you need to know what the "switch settings" are to make them do certain things, sometimes they just halt on error and you can't tell what happened unless you can look up the error address in the listing. For example, for the ZKMA memory test: bit 15 set = halt on error bit 14 set = loop in selected subtest (see bits 0-3) bit 13 set = don't print errors bit 12 set = enable memory management bit 11 set = enable parity testing (default is ignore parity bits) bit 10 set = halt after each sub-test bit 9 set = don't do program relocation (so it can't test all of memory) bit 8 set = test in blocks of 4K, and print the first failing bit in each block bit 7 set = enable "long galloping test" (takes a while :-)) bit 6 set = don't size the memory (normally the diagnostic tries to work out how much memory there is to test) bit 5 set = don't print "END PASS xx" (normally does this every time round the loop) bit 4 set = don't print anything bits 0 to 3 are used to select a single subtest. See bit 14. Machines used to come with paper listings (though I think that practice stopped around the time of microPDP-11s) and some sites had the set on microfiche (one and a half boxes about 15" deep, so it's a LOT of microfiche for the whole set). We've discussed this on the list several times before. Maybe I should dig out the rest of my XXDP paper notes and scan them :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 06:50:51 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: qbus mscp ctlr manuals In-Reply-To: SHAUN RIPLEY "Re: qbus mscp ctlr manuals" (May 7, 19:57) References: <20040508025711.16349.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10405081250.ZM2110@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 7, 19:57, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > already gone? Drat! Sorry about that, in my haste at the end of the day, I got the file permissions for external access wrong (and a couple of the links). The links should work now. Several people mailed me privately to tell me; you're all welcome to make copies/backups/mirrors/whatever. I also didn't have time yesterday to find a copy of tiffcp and convert the big g3-compressed TIFFs to g4-compressed. I've done that now; sometime shortly after 1300 BST today (Saturday) I'll change the index.html file to point to the g4-compressed TIFFs, which are *much* smaller (a factor of 3). > --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > > We also mentioned DEC's UDA50 Programmer's Documentation Kit a > > while ago. I had a chance to play with a new scanner at work > > today, so I've provided scans of all three documents in the set, > > as TIFFs and PDFs. Due to lack of space I can't keep them there > > very long, but for the moment they're at > > > > http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pnt1/MSCP/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat May 8 07:37:55 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Microvax 3100-95 SCSI oddity Message-ID: Folks, Spent a day troubleshooting this one so I'm wondering if any of you have come across this before: 3100-95 with internal SCSI set at ID 7. Give it a boot disk at any free ID and another device (doesn't matter what) at ID 6. At the dead sergeant prompt all the devices are visible, but boot VMS 7.2 and whatever device you have at ID 6 is not seen unless it's the boot disk itself in which case it shows up as DKA600. Is there something hard-coded into VMS for MicroVAX 3100s that always assumes the SCSI controller is at ID 6 no matter what? I know that older 3100s always had the controller at 6 and I don't remember it being changeable.... Most odd :) Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 8 07:09:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup In-Reply-To: <10405080005.ZM1186@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040508080928.008ae100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Pete, I think I have a couple of Exabyte 8200 drives laying around if you want one and are willing to pay shipping from the US. Joe At 12:05 AM 5/8/04 +0100, you wrote: >Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a >tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. Ultimately I need it >transferred to a hard disk but DAT (DDS or DDS2) or DLT (anything that >can be read on a DLT7000) would be an excellent intermediate step. > >Does anyone in the UK have the ability to do that for me? I can >provide the DDS or DLT tape. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 8 07:35:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <200405080833.EAA11445@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:03 AM 5/8/04 -0400, you wrote: >I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. It was sold "tel >quel" ("as is"), so it was a bit of a gamble, but I figured if it was >broken it'd be even more fun 'cause then I would feel no compunction >about opening it up and Investigating. > >The battery pack appears dead (based on a 1kohm/volt voltmeter, it's >producing about .1V) and it didn't come with a wall wart. But the >battery pack was visibly made up of four cells, so I figured four >rechargeable cells is probably about 5V - and the external power >connector is marked 5V. It should be marked 8 volts. The charger for them has an 8 VAC 3VA output. The original chargers are a bit hard to find but the later chargers that were used for nearly all of the HP-IL devices such as the HP 82161 casssette tape drive, 9114 disk drive, various data converters such as HP-IL to HP-Ib, HP-IL to RS-232 and HP-IL to GPIO converters work perfectly with the HP-97. The same charger is used for the HP 91, HP 92, HP-71 and HP-75 and for the HP-41s with the rechargeable battery packs. The model number of that charger varies according to what AC outlet it fits but here in the US it's a model HP 82059. I routinely find them in surplus stores in the US and there are plenty of them on E-bay. So I hooked it up to 5V from a peecee power >supply (peecees are good for _something_; they provide me with power >supplies :), and it seems to be in full working order. Even the >printer works (though the ribbon appears a little enfeebled). There is no printer ribbon. it uses thermal paper. The biggest problem with the printer is that the paper feed mechanism wears out and it can't be fixed. > >All I need to do is find a manual for the thing. Anyone know of one? Nope, the original manuals are collector's items and I'd be surprised to find one on-line. The HP Museum sells a set of CDs with this and many other HP manuals for a very reasonable price. I'd recommend those unless you're willing to pay the price for a real manual. >Google found me a few places _selling_ scanned copies of the manual, >but none civilized enough to have it up for fetching. > >The thing cost me all of five bucks. :) You can make a nice profit on E-bay :-) Maybe not quite on a par with >an ASR33, but it's also a lot easier for me to find space for. As yet >I may be but a dilettante when it comes to old computing gadgets, but >*I* think it has a healthy dose of gamish! BTW you do know that the slot on the LH side is for a mag card reader don't you? The reader in it is almost certainly gummed up due to deteriorated feed wheel but they can be fixed. It uses the same cards as the HP 412 card reader and the HP-65 and 67s. Joe > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From pcw at mesanet.com Sat May 8 09:06:51 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Summagraphics tablet? In-Reply-To: <200405080659.CAA11273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > Oh, it's a Kriz tablet (after Stan Kriz at 3 rivers). > > > I have never fully understood how they work either. The 'wires' in > > the PCB carry electrical currents, and are sequenced in some way by > > the microcontroller. The puck/pen contains a pickup coil, the output > > of which is amplified and fed back to the microcontroller. > [...] > > And the resolution is _much_ higher than the spacing between the > > 'wires'. > > Much. The manual documents resolution settings as high as 20 counts > per mm; experimenting with it, I find it actually includes settings > that appear to attempt 1000 lines/inch and 1000 lines/mm, based on > dividing full-scale counts by pad size (in-my-head estimates; I could > be out by a factor of two or so). Of course, I doubt it's accurate to > anything like ±1 count at those settings. :-) Most likely the relative signal levels of the 2 closest wires to the puck are measured and the position is then interpolated... Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 8 10:17:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > I never watched it regularly. However, I appreciated it because it was > > one outlet for me to exercise my TV star fantasies :) > > I thought your TV star fantasy was to face Sakai in the artichoke battle. I would lose with artichokes. Make it Salmon and I would whip his silly artichoke stuffing ass. > > Yep, that's probably the case here. Oh well... > > Basically, the broadcast and cable industries are pretty disgusting. Very > disgusting, in fact. I rate Clear Channel worse than Microsoft. I would have to agree with you there 101%. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 8 10:20:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen In-Reply-To: <200405072247.i47Mlfhc031273@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Chris Ryan wrote: > Bought one of Ebay recently, but it comes without software. Was wondering if > anybody might be able to provide it to me in some form? Hi Christopher. I have it but I don't know if I still know where it is. If someone else has this (the person who I provided it to before would be a good bet, if they chime in) then try to get it from them first as it'll take me a while to fulfill this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 8 10:51:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Need Bernoulli cartrige Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040508115128.0087b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hello, I'm working on an old Bering 8020RM HP-IB disk drive that uses a removable disk cartridge. I found that it uses a Bernoulli drive and it uses a 8" cartridge. I THINK the disk is 20Mb but I'm not sure. Does anyone have an old 8" Bernoulli disk that I can try in it? Joe From allain at panix.com Sat May 8 11:46:52 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: free: CIE CIT-101e User's Manual References: <200405080659.CAA11273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <001b01c4351c$112af1c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Have one of these terminals? Get the manual. Good appendices, illustrations, etc. Perhaps 200 pages. Get it before it goes to epay. John A. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 8 11:41:56 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: slightly OT: tape backup In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: slightly OT: tape backup" (May 8, 8:09) References: <3.0.6.32.20040508080928.008ae100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10405081741.ZM2419@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 8, 8:09, Joe R. wrote: > I think I have a couple of Exabyte 8200 drives laying around if you want > one and are willing to pay shipping from the US. > At 12:05 AM 5/8/04 +0100, you wrote: > >Slightly off topic: I need to recover some data (about 500MB) from a > >tape written 8 years ago on an 8mm ExaByte 8200. Thanks for the offer. I think I'll pass on that, though (unless things change) as I've had a couple of offers in private email. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 8 11:51:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405081657.MAA12671@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. [...] >> and the external power connector is marked 5V. > It should be marked 8 volts. The charger for them has an 8 VAC 3VA > output. Maybe it's not a charger, then, but just a calculator power supply. It's fairly clearly maked "5 VOLTS 2 WATTS". Doesn't say whether AC or DC, even, which I found surprising. >> Even the printer works (though the ribbon appears a little >> enfeebled). > There is no printer ribbon. it uses thermal paper. Certainly not normal thermal paper. Most thermal paper will show a mark if I draw my fingernail across it when it's on a hard surface; I tried that with this paper and it does nothing. I haven't tried heating the paper, which of course is really the acid test. Also, the print started out light and got better, which is indicative to me of a ribbon that had a dried-out spot and has now moved to a better area. Perhaps I have a 97 with a rare ribbon print mechanism? :) I'll probably open it up, if only to convince myself what the external power _really_ should be (I've been connecting to the battery connector, not the external power connector) and, if DC, what polarity. I can look at the print mechanism when I do. I can also try heating the paper to see what happens. >> The thing cost me all of five bucks. :) > You can make a nice profit on E-bay :-) Nope, I never use ebay. :) > BTW you do know that the slot on the LH side is for a mag card reader > don't you? It took a while, but yes, I realized that eventually. It came with no cards, though - is it possible to make them with something like a piece of magnetic tape and some thin stiff plastic or some such, or must they be The Real Thing? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat May 8 10:44:09 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? In-Reply-To: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> from "Ron Hudson" at May 07, 2004 09:50:26 PM Message-ID: <200405081544.i48Fi96o014336@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >From: Ron Hudson > >I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. > >When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? > >How do I load it again? > >Directory list? > >the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my >commands? > > >Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - >I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't >see anything on DOS sites. > >Thanks! > You're in for a treat: http://www.atariarchives.org/ From chris at gsc-software.com Sat May 8 12:22:01 2004 From: chris at gsc-software.com (Chris Lind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Would you be interested in selling your book? Message-ID: Hi, I saw on a news group posting that you owned the book "How to build a working digital computer" by Edward Alcosser. Would you be interested in selling this book? I would also pay top dollar for a photocopy of the book. Thank you for your time, - Chris Lind From jpl15 at panix.com Sat May 8 13:15:03 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Trade RL02 'ready' button Message-ID: I have discovered a couple of RL02 (and other drives) 'READY' buttons, which also determine the drive's 'number' in the system, 0-3. I would like to trade a brand-new '3' button for a '1' button that is known good. I have several RL02 drives, all of them '0' devices. I'll pay shipping to you. Straight trade, no money involved. Cheers John From cannings at earthlink.net Sat May 8 12:37:13 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? References: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000701c43523$1b7841d0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Ron, The format is ( to do a LOAD ); LOAD "D1:Filename.BAS" Where D1 is the Disk Drive # ( 1 is the default ) Filename is the filename .BAS means it is a BASIC file format To do a "SAVE" just replace LOAD with SAVE. Hope this helps. Best regards, Steven Ron wrote; I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? How do I load it again? Directory list? the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my commands? Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't see anything on DOS sites. Thanks! From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 8 13:33:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Microvax 3100-95 SCSI oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, Witchy wrote: > Spent a day troubleshooting this one so I'm wondering if any of you have > come across this before: 3100-95 with internal SCSI set at ID 7. Give it a > boot disk at any free ID and another device (doesn't matter what) at ID 6. > At the dead sergeant prompt all the devices are visible, but boot VMS 7.2 > and whatever device you have at ID 6 is not seen unless it's the boot disk > itself in which case it shows up as DKA600. > > Is there something hard-coded into VMS for MicroVAX 3100s that always > assumes the SCSI controller is at ID 6 no matter what? I know that older > 3100s always had the controller at 6 and I don't remember it being > changeable.... Yes. Although you can set it at the >>>, you can safely assume that most software will reset it to 6 at driver init. Dont ask me why, I got bitten by it too, when trying to linking to 3100's together over SCSI. --f From aw288 at osfn.org Sat May 8 13:51:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Tech TV goes gamer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ... his silly artichoke stuffing ass. That presentation would certainly gather all five points. OK, I'll shut up now. Everyone can tell what channel I stick to now... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sat May 8 14:04:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal Message-ID: I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird stuff they used to do back then! Anyway, this is a late 60s (probably) all transistor and core box, about five feet tall and 300 pounds. It takes standard tapes. I don't think the thing is completely working right now, as I can't get it to do much, and a light blinks as in "something wrong!". I have no docs on the thing. I should also say that the keyboard on this thing moved the bar as far as how bad human engineering can get. Anyway, I want to make it go away, so if anyone has stuff to trade (no micros, please - (cruddy) big stuff or docs are good) or has a little cash (were not talking much here folks - scrap value is probably only $100), we can deal. I can deliver to VCFeast or anywhere near NY/NJ/CT/RI. I could ship it as well, as I do have a sort of crate thing. Let me know! Please, I need the room! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 8 14:21:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > stuff they used to do back then! The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the surface. > I have no docs on the thing. I have a copy of the sales brochure that I found while going through several thousands documents at the Computer History Museum. > I should also say that the keyboard on this thing moved the bar as far > as how bad human engineering can get. Yep. > Anyway, I want to make it go away, so if anyone has stuff to trade (no > micros, please - (cruddy) big stuff or docs are good) or has a little cash > (were not talking much here folks - scrap value is probably only $100), we > can deal. I can deliver to VCFeast or anywhere near NY/NJ/CT/RI. I could > ship it as well, as I do have a sort of crate thing. How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few more still in existence. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Sat May 8 15:26:30 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: RL02 '3' button spoken for Message-ID: I've set up a trade with another Listmember who needs a '3' as much as I need a '1' - so Things have worked out well! Thanks to all who have responded so far! Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 15:15:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <200405080833.EAA11445@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 8, 4 03:03:26 am Message-ID: > > I just picked up an HP 97 at a church rummage sale. It was sold "tel Nice toy!. I have 2 of them (and 4 HP67s, which is basically the same machine without the printer). > quel" ("as is"), so it was a bit of a gamble, but I figured if it was > broken it'd be even more fun 'cause then I would feel no compunction > about opening it up and Investigating. > > The battery pack appears dead (based on a 1kohm/volt voltmeter, it's > producing about .1V) and it didn't come with a wall wart. But the > battery pack was visibly made up of four cells, so I figured four > rechargeable cells is probably about 5V - and the external power Exactly. It's 4 sub-C NiCds in series. Don't throw out the old back, you need the plastic housing and metal contacts to rebuild it. > connector is marked 5V. So I hooked it up to 5V from a peecee power > supply (peecees are good for _something_; they provide me with power > supplies :), and it seems to be in full working order. Even the > printer works (though the ribbon appears a little enfeebled). The printer is thermal, there's no ribbon as such. Probably the thermal paper has 'gone off' with age (it does this). You will also need to rebuild the roller of the magnetic card reader (that's the slot just to the left of the display). > > All I need to do is find a manual for the thing. Anyone know of one? Buy the Museum of HP Calculators CD-ROM set (http://www.hpmuseum.org/ and follow the links). It cost me $42 for the 7 disks including shipping to England, and I think this is a bargain. On these you'll find the user manual, the _service manual_ (one of the few service manuals that is there), many of the solution books (books of user-written progrmas, etc). If you're interested in HP calculators at all, you need these CDs. I don't normally like manuals on CD, but I really think these are excellent! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 15:30:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Find: HP 97 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040508083532.008af630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 8, 4 08:35:32 am Message-ID: > There is no printer ribbon. it uses thermal paper. The biggest problem > with the printer is that the paper feed mechanism wears out and it can't be > fixed. The last HP97 I got had this problem. The printer can be taken apart (there's an exploded diagram in the service manual), and the roller removed. It's got those well-known silicone rubber tyres on the ends. I was thinking of cutting them off and using silicone rubber tubing to replace them. But before I went to all that trouble, I tried rubbing them will 1000 grit wet-n-dry paper, just to take the glaze off them. Worked fine... When it goes again, I'll probably have to renew them, though. -tony From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat May 8 15:51:52 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Atari Gurus! Dos Commands? In-Reply-To: <000701c43523$1b7841d0$6401a8c0@hal9000> References: <395B4C3C-A0AB-11D8-A8AC-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <000701c43523$1b7841d0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <88A0BA3C-A131-11D8-9EF3-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Thanks Steve and Martin. On May 8, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Steven Canning wrote: > > Ron, > > The format is ( to do a LOAD ); > > LOAD "D1:Filename.BAS" > > Where D1 is the Disk Drive # ( 1 is the default ) > > Filename is the filename > > .BAS means it is a BASIC file format > > To do a "SAVE" just replace LOAD with SAVE. Hope this helps. > > Best regards, Steven > > > > Ron wrote; > > > I just downloaded an atari 800 emulator for my Ibook. > > When I have written a basic program how do I save it to floppy? > > How do I load it again? > > Directory list? > > the emulator has 8 diskette drives, how do I specify them in my > commands? > > > Any good sites on the Internet with simple stuff like that - > I can find basic sites, and Assembly language sites but I don't > see anything on DOS sites. > > Thanks! > > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 8 17:17:15 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Apochryphal? References: Message-ID: <00dc01c4354a$e17045a0$18464ed5@geoff> I read out the tv listing to my wife and she said " Well I'm thinking "The wizard of Oz " ". I'll see if I can get her some part time work on a tv guide. Geoff. From esharpe at uswest.net Sat May 8 19:41:56 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal References: Message-ID: <001101c4355e$6e8e8b50$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> >>>>>How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron perhaps they lack vision! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Re: 7 track tape terminal > On Sat, 8 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > > stuff they used to do back then! > > The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. > Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. > > But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on > mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the > surface. > > > I have no docs on the thing. > > I have a copy of the sales brochure that I found while going through > several thousands documents at the Computer History Museum. > > > I should also say that the keyboard on this thing moved the bar as far > > as how bad human engineering can get. > > Yep. > > > Anyway, I want to make it go away, so if anyone has stuff to trade (no > > micros, please - (cruddy) big stuff or docs are good) or has a little cash > > (were not talking much here folks - scrap value is probably only $100), we > > can deal. I can deliver to VCFeast or anywhere near NY/NJ/CT/RI. I could > > ship it as well, as I do have a sort of crate thing. > > How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. > > Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and > mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few > more still in existence. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From beclassic at att.net Sat May 8 20:37:38 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (beclassic) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 Message-ID: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> I am just about ready to rid myself of the DEC equipment I have. I'm starting with the classic computer mailing list, but I may part the stuff out on e-bay. I want to preserve the equipment and related manuals, but I'm also not ready to just make a gift. The equipment was purchased in 1979 with updates in maybe 1981. It was used in my business and has only been moved once (Fall, 2001). It is now in my garage which is obviously not air conditioned. Most of the manuals and printed materials are in a storage room a few miles away in "conditioned" air. The computer was used primarily as a BASIC processor, but we also had compiled Dibol applications we developed (actually DBL). I have the mid-height (42") newer-looking cabinet containing the processor and dual RL01's. The dual RX01 unit is stand-alone, desk-top unit with matching exterior. The original basic unit was an 11T03 with an 11/03 processor. After a few years I swapped the processor to an 11/23 (dual size M8186): KDF11-AC with KTF11-AA makes the cpu a KDF11-AA. Also added KEF11-AA FPU to help my number crunching. Current memory is 256K (MSV11-LK). The monitor is a VT100 with an extra board for advanced video, plus a tilt-swivel stand (DEC version). I also have an LA120BA terminal unit with keyboard that I used as the wide-carriage printer. I generally used TSX and at one time had a time-sharing client using a proprietary program through a 1000 baud modem. I believe the latest RT11 I used was v.3B, but v.4 may also be there. I have the usual stuff that went with operating the machine: - printed docs ( box of paper ) for diagnostics, plus microfiche version - original diagnostics on RL01 - original manuals for each item (I think) - some hardware diagrams/schematics, along with installation booklets - 8-10 of the small paperback books of equipment from DEC - 4-5 large blue notebooks from DEC regarding operating system, etc. - maybe 9 RL01 disk packs in total - a few used RX01s - software - RT11, BASIC, Fortran?, TSX?, DBL? - some confusion in this since the distributions came from a third-party developer via RL01, not from DEC on distribution-type media. The CPU and memory seem fine. The bottom RL01 powers up but shows a fault light; the other works fine. Both RX01 drives work. The VT100 works fine. Haven't tried the LA120 lately. I recently hooked a PC as the console and used Kermit to transfer all the data on the RL01s. I have slowly been trying to separate my data from DEC data on the RL01s and do a wipe routine after, thus protecting client data. Maybe I'll only release half of the RL01s. I've infrequently reviewed the digest versions of this mailing list, but this is my first attempt to participate. I am switching from digest so that I can try to be responsive on-line (generally between 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm EST). Are other times more appropriate? I can also answer emails, generally within a half day. I can maybe get some pictures on-line, but most of the participants in this list know what they're dealing with. I'm in central South Carolina. bill bailey From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat May 8 21:05:57 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 References: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: <000b01c4356a$3cd95ca0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "beclassic" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 > I want to preserve the equipment and related manuals, so far so good >but I'm also > not ready to just make a gift. > hmmmmm bm From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat May 8 22:21:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 In-Reply-To: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: >>> I want to preserve the equipment and related manuals, but I'm also not ready to just make a gift. One way to do this is a "Low-Ball Auction". I have participated in a few of these and they are quite a blast. They are NOT a way to "really" make money, and usually occur at charity events or within small groups (civic, etc.). The way they work is an un-published price is set for each item along with a closing time (since this are usually done at an "event", closing time is often 1 hour before the end of the event). Sealed bids are placed for the valid duration. NO information about the number of bids placed or their amounts is released until the closing time. When the auction closes, the winner is the person who has placed the LOWEST bid that meets or exceeds the set price. To increase the "exictement" the bids for each item are often read in decending order down to the winner. It is quite fun to watch! The "seller" gets (at least) their asking price, but the actual price is determined by how much each interested party thinks the others think the item is worth to them. Don't know if this would work here on the list, but would be sure to be a big hit at VCFEast! Just an idea...... From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sat May 8 22:14:17 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: Heathkit H8 emulators Message-ID: <000101c43573$b6f865e0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Things are jumping over at www.sebhc.org , with more than 70 members committed to the preservation of Heathkit 8-bit computers - come take a look. Several of us have tried unsuccessfully to get in touch with either Dave Shaw or Dave Wallace, both of whom created websites featuring H8 emulation, one Mac-based, the other Windows-based. While email addresses are available, no-one has had a recent response from either Dave. Can anyone on classiccmp provide some help - 1) working email addresses for Dave Shaw or Dave Wallace, or possibly for reviewers of their emulators, including Larry Bledsoe, Steve Novosad, Charles Horn, Neal Granroth, Stanley Webb, or Bob Myers; 2) did anyone download the emulator source or support files from Dave Shaw's defunct website? Any help appreciated! Jack From beclassic at att.net Sat May 8 22:42:09 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (bill bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 References: Message-ID: <006e01c43577$9dc91d40$0200a8c0@old3> Interesting idea the "Low-Ball Auction". I doubt that there will be enough people interested in this equipment to have any range of bids. Smaller pieces than the 42" cabinet might be more interesting individually, but I thought the "whole package" idea should be given a chance. I believe my location will be a problem due to shipping difficulties. [][][] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat May 8 23:01:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: LowBall Auction -was DEC 11/23... In-Reply-To: <006e01c43577$9dc91d40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: >>> >>> Interesting idea the "Low-Ball Auction". >>> >>> I doubt that there will be enough people interested in this >>> equipment to have any range of bids. Smaller pieces than >>> the 42" cabinet might be more interesting individually, but >>> I thought the "whole package" idea should be given a chance. >>> >>> I believe my location will be a problem due to shipping >>> difficulties. >>> Actually I agree that this particular transaction would not really be appropriate for this type of deal by itself.... ...but if a bunch of people could bring items like this to VCFEast..... Ps: I am sure there are a decent number of people here whould be interested in the whole item, especially if known to be basically working. Although I am primarily interested in PDP-8 and related, I worked on the 11/23 for most of its life (1981-1992) and would not mind getting my hands on that system if it were not for some recent severe cash limitations..... From beclassic at att.net Sat May 8 23:45:32 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (bill bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) References: Message-ID: <007b01c43580$7c681b20$0200a8c0@old3> The diagnostics with my 11T03 (now 11/23) included a "software bill of material" for Option Number ZJ278-RQ and the Option Title is LSI-11 BUS DIAG DOC/RLO1 KIT. This is a 4 page list of programs and titles. These are the programs for which listings are included in the 12" deep box of papers. I only have the indexes here at home - the box of paper is in a nearby storage room. But, two of the entries are: AC-F053A-MC CXQUAA0 DEC/X11 USER MANUAL AC-9093L-MC CZQXAL0 XXDP USR MANUAL so, Christian, I believe the ? position you mentioned is used to represent the version or revision level, and I suspect the XXDP was renumbered in what you are seeing. BTW, my memory says the fiche copies I have constitue less than 1" depth. Since I can put my hands on these copies, is there something I can contribute? From nico at farumdata.dk Sun May 9 00:30:00 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:24 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal References: Message-ID: <003201c43586$ac474c20$2201a8c0@finans> From: "William Donzelli" Subject: 7 track tape terminal > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > stuff they used to do back then! Back in 69-70, I was an operator in a shop where they used Mohawk data entry systems for (mainly) salary-related work. The model they used, only had 1 reel. The "used" part of the tape was just falling down into a drawer. The systems worked like shit (sorry to say so), as we had read errors on just about every tape we attempted to read. We read them on 9-track IBM drives. One day, IIRC, we started to read them (about 20 tapes or so), at 1600. We were supposed to be finished at 5-ish, but had to sweat through countless errors, cleaning cycles, etc. until we sort-of finished at 2100. Some tapes just couldnt be read, on any of the 5 drives we tried. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 From vrs at msn.com Sun May 9 01:16:57 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) References: <007b01c43580$7c681b20$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill bailey" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: DEC Diagnostic Disks (incl long listing) > The diagnostics with my 11T03 (now 11/23) included a "software bill of > material" for Option Number ZJ278-RQ and the Option Title is LSI-11 BUS DIAG > DOC/RLO1 KIT. This is a 4 page list of programs and titles. These are the > programs for which listings are included in the 12" deep box of papers. > > I only have the indexes here at home - the box of paper is in a nearby > storage room. But, two of the entries are: > > AC-F053A-MC CXQUAA0 DEC/X11 USER MANUAL > AC-9093L-MC CZQXAL0 XXDP USR MANUAL > > so, Christian, I believe the ? position you mentioned is used to represent > the version or revision level, and I suspect the XXDP was renumbered in > what you are seeing. BTW, my memory says the fiche copies I have constitue > less than 1" depth. > > Since I can put my hands on these copies, is there something I can > contribute? > > From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun May 9 02:26:02 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? Poorly. Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our "adventure" is now up on my web site at: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html ** WARNING!! ** These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many disturbing images. You have been warned!! -- TTFN - Guy From edward at groenenberg.net Sun May 9 03:00:53 2004 From: edward at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <409DE535.9CA4308C@groenenberg.net> Well indeed, these pictures are not for the collectors among us with a weak health. Makes my rescue I made some time ago with Fred a 'beginners' rescue. Ed Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html > > ** WARNING!! ** > > These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many > disturbing images. You have been warned!! > -- > > TTFN - Guy -- edward@groenenberg.net | Collector of PDP-11's. http://www.groenenberg.net | Politici zijn vieze oplichters. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is crap. '97 TL1000S From torquil at chemist.com Sun May 9 04:44:12 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 Message-ID: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> Hello everyone, Recently, I met up with listmember Rick Murphy to take a beautiful VAXstation 3500 (KA650, QBus, RX50, DEQNA)in BA123 enclosure, along with VR290 monitor, puck mouse and keyboard, off his hands. (Allow me to commend him for being a good sport, I was ~30 minutes late ;)) It is a near flawless machine, except both of its RD53s are dead as doornails. The platter isn't stuck, but the opening up the drive tricks have all been tried. It powers up and then powers right back down. (But is at least detected, it seems) In any case, I am looking to make this thing work again. :) I am looking for any kind of Qbus goodies, specifically a SCSI card. If this is too rare an item, I am looking for a DSSI card. If this isn't an option either, I am looking for any RDxx drive. I am also looking for an RX22 drive, so that I can load a kernel off it and not have to worry with all that stuff, just simple, reliable NFS. :) Lastly (and this is a long shot), does anyone have a spare backdoor to the BA123 enclosure, or even just the hinge would do (mine is falling off). Any replies are appreciated, I can't wait to get this thing up and running as a full-time server. :) -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 9 04:45:57 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: Guy Sotomayor "Re: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley)" (May 9, 0:26) References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <10405091045.ZM3236@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 9, 0:26, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html Ow! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rick at rickmurphy.net Sun May 9 07:51:54 2004 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040509085042.01e6bff0@mail.itm-inst.com> At 03:26 AM 5/9/2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: >On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > >Poorly. > >Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our >"adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html This made me want to cry. A special place in hell must be reserved for people who would treat poor innocent computers like that. :-( -Rick From wacarder at usit.net Sun May 9 10:55:43 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I guess the only good thing about this is that at least these computers did not end up at the scrappers. It appears that there are numerous salvageable items in this lot. Maybe some other failing 11/40s will live again because of these neglected ones that were left out in the weather. It does look like things weather better in Sunny California than they do here in South Carolina. You would not want to see what they would look like if they had been sitting out in the weather here for 15 years. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Guy Sotomayor Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 3:26 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? Poorly. Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our "adventure" is now up on my web site at: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html ** WARNING!! ** These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many disturbing images. You have been warned!! -- TTFN - Guy From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun May 9 10:53:38 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) References: Message-ID: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: RE: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) > I guess the only good thing about this is that at least > these computers did not end up at the scrappers. It > appears that there are numerous salvageable items in > this lot. Maybe some other failing 11/40s will live > again because of these neglected ones that were left > out in the weather. It does look like things weather > better in Sunny California than they do here in South > Carolina. You would not want to see what they would > look like if they had been sitting out in the weather > here for 15 years. > > Ashley > In Ohio they would have been a rusty spot in the grass. I wonder what they were thinking having those units in a yard 15 years uncovered, maybe they were waiting on the scrap value to rise enough to be able to scrap them? From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun May 9 11:01:47 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> Torquil MacCorkle, III declared on Sunday 09 May 2004 04:44 am: > Hello everyone, Hi! :) > In any case, I am looking to make this thing work again. :) I am > looking for any kind of Qbus goodies, specifically a SCSI card. If > this is too rare an item, I am looking for a DSSI card. If this isn't > an option either, I am looking for any RDxx drive. SCSI cards are $200-$300ish for disk compatible ones on eBay, when they show up. After collecting a few QBUS things I got lucky and obtained one in a machine. A DSSI card should be cheaper (KFQSA/M7769), if you can find one and a drive. You could also try to find someone with a KDA50 and SDI drives (RAxx) or a third-party SMD controller and SMD drives, or ESDI controller and ESDI drives... there was one of those on ebay just about a week ago, but it went for more than I'd want to spend. For now, it'll probably be easiest for you to find some ST251s or ST225s, and although they're small, you might be able to get an old copy of VMS onto them. I'm sure you could get NetBSD to fit on a ST251. > I am also looking for an RX22 drive, so that I can load a kernel off > it and not have to worry with all that stuff, just simple, reliable > NFS. :) RX22? Do you mean an RX33? If so, you can make one from a TEAC FD-55GFR floppy drive. Some instructions are here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/rx33_1 I remember seeing better instructions somewhere else, but can't find them now. As far as a hard drive goes, you could find an ST225 (RD31) or ST251 (RD32), as those seem to be the easiest to find. You'll need to reformat them, which you can do using XXDP on a PDP-11 or TEST 70 on a VAXstation 2000. If you can find one but don't have either of the above, let me know and I'll see if I can help. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From esharpe at uswest.net Sun May 9 12:41:52 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal References: <003201c43586$ac474c20$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <000d01c435ec$ea1f2480$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> there really are not too many of these around...... they were scrapped by the pile load as many folk that re-used equipment for hobby purposes had no use for them. but..... they are indeed part of the history of things. ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:30 PM Subject: Re: 7 track tape terminal > From: "William Donzelli" > Subject: 7 track tape terminal > > > > I have an extra Mohawk Data Services 7 track (!) tape terminal > > available. Basically, it is a tape drive with a keyboard - oh the weird > > stuff they used to do back then! > > Back in 69-70, I was an operator in a shop where they used Mohawk data entry > systems for (mainly) salary-related work. The model they used, only had 1 > reel. The "used" part of the tape was just falling down into a drawer. The > systems worked like shit (sorry to say so), as we had read errors on just > about every tape we attempted to read. We read them on 9-track IBM drives. > One day, IIRC, we started to read them (about 20 tapes or so), at 1600. We > were supposed to be finished at 5-ish, but had to sweat through countless > errors, cleaning cycles, etc. until we sort-of finished at 2100. Some tapes > just couldnt be read, on any of the 5 drives we tried. > > Nico > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 02-05-2004 > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun May 9 13:07:35 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> <200405080609.CAA11088@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <004c01c435f0$819deb90$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? multiple mirroring is something that is a good idea for this great resource. if we were to loose it........ Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:07 PM Subject: Re: cd longevity > > This is EXACTLY why I created bitsavers.org > [...] > > The problem is, there are no 'real' mirrors (I can see in the logs > > that dozens of people are mirroring it for themselves..) > > I run no webserver and don't want to change that. But depending on how > much space is required, I tentatively volunteer to run an FTP-access > mirror - or even just a disaster-recovery backup of it. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Sun May 9 14:00:26 2004 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <004c01c435f0$819deb90$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> References: <200405071953.i47JrtAL003096@spies.com> <200405080609.CAA11088@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <004c01c435f0$819deb90$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <409E7FCA.4060503@ox.compsoc.net> ed sharpe wrote: > what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? > > multiple mirroring is something that is a good idea for this great > resource. if we were to loose it........ Indeed. I'd be happy to run a UK mirror if wanted (actually, I'd be quite happy to run a UK mirror of any classic computer-related resource). I'm only on a 1Mbit connection, though, so wouldn't be able to have anything that's *too* bandwidth-heavy :) Plenty of drive space, though - currently > 90GB free. Dan From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 9 14:01:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> References: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> > > I guess the only good thing about this is that at least > > these computers did not end up at the scrappers. It > > appears that there are numerous salvageable items in > > this lot. Maybe some other failing 11/40s will live > > again because of these neglected ones that were left > > out in the weather. It does look like things weather > > better in Sunny California than they do here in South > > Carolina. You would not want to see what they would > > look like if they had been sitting out in the weather > > here for 15 years. On Sun, 9 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > In Ohio they would have been a rusty spot in the grass. I wonder what they > were thinking having those units in a yard 15 years uncovered, maybe they > were waiting on the scrap value to rise enough to be able to scrap them? Not quite. He got them from a dumpster. His employer had promised him office/storage space (contractually obligated, but amount not specified), but reneged. He had once planned to do something with the machines, but got overwhelmed with other problems, including rapidly decreasing storage space. We all spend more on storage than on housing. It's too bad that he didn't release the stuff sooner. BTW, although I was the one who passed on the offer to the list, it was the OTHER Fred who participated in the rescue. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From allain at panix.com Sun May 9 14:14:25 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <006601c435f9$d83fb880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this... > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html No special curses to the previous owners, I mean, they didn't scrap it. But major big thanks for your efforts. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun May 9 14:35:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Patrick's information is pretty complete. I'll mention that DSSI/RFxx _drives_ are easier to find than controllers, and for SDI/RAxx series both controllers and drives are not hard to find. Someone up in Massachusetts sold me a beautiful RA92 drive a year ago for $50, and seemed to have dozens more. Also I wouldn't be surprised if you could boot directly from the network, instead of a floppy, but not sure of that one. John A. From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun May 9 14:51:14 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200405091451.14291.pat@computer-refuge.org> John Allain declared on Sunday 09 May 2004 02:35 pm: > Also I wouldn't be surprised if you could boot directly from the > network, instead of a floppy, but not sure of that one. Yes, you can in fact, if you set up a mop boot server on something. I use a Debian Linux box with mopd installed to boot NetBSD on my VAXstation 3200 (basically a MicroVAX 3500 in a BA23). Of course, this requires a DEQNA or DELQA board, which should be easy to find on eBay for less than $20 (or from someone on the list). Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Sun May 9 15:29:17 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 Message-ID: <040509162917.14ae@splab.cas.neu.edu> The RD53s are toast, but is the controller O.K.? I'll lend you an RD54 with some version of VMS on it if you want to try to boot that way. Either way, I have a MVII with some RD54s on it (maxtor 2190s I believe) and maybe a loaner rqdx3. and we can talk about the back door also. BTW, I am coming up on my vacation, so I'll get back to you about the other qbus stuff I have, if you still want an LSI-11 flavor machine... Joe Heck And no, I haven't forgotten Curt, Steve and the many others who have asked about the "stuff" I am getting rid of. During the month of June when I am off from work, I'll get back to all the emails I saved about my equipment. From aek at spies.com Sun May 9 16:34:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity Message-ID: <200405092134.i49LY0Io021685@spies.com> > what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? currently, on the order of 20gBytes, going up about 50mBytes/day From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun May 9 18:47:40 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Hyperions Message-ID: <002501c43620$15ce1fe0$6402a8c0@home> Over the years, I have been pretty successful in acquiring Hyperions. Actually the bulk of my collection is Hyperions. A recent letter to the group made me pause and think about the future of my Hyperions. I won't sell them but I would love to have them with someone who can sort out the hardware and the manuals and make the information available to those who are interested. At this point I have too much on my plate to do this myself. Trades will be considered but not outright sales. I've contacted a couple of the Canadian museums with an offer of this equipment but haven't been honored with a reply. Soooo, Canada is good but if they have to go to the states, so be it. No shipping though, only pick-up in Scarborough. Points for anyone who is interested in these units : 1. Are they of interest to someone who could pick them up in Toronto (Scarborough actually, 20 minutes from the CN tower.)? I won't ship them. 2. My original Hyperion, which I purchased and am keeping, does not boot so the others may be in the same condition and I already know that at least one of the storage towers has had some trace problems, if that's what you call them. There are about 6 complete units, one for parts and two storage towers that are about two by three feet and very heavy (maybe 50 pounds or more.) 3. I'd like to keep one set of manuals but there are doubles and triples of just about everything plus boxes of software and records from their original site which was a Canadian tech college. 4. There would have to be some agreement that this stuff wouldn't be sold as I was given all of it under the condition that I wouldn't sell it. If you have a museum and are interested in this stuff, that would be absolutely prime. 5. All of the material has to be kept together. I'm not going to piece it out. It has value both monetary and historically and I would love if it could be in a bricks and mortar museum somewhere. That's about it. Volume is probably a stretch mini-van full or a bit more. If nothing happens with this, I will obviously keep it all and hope my kids will be interested in it in about ten years. If you have some ideas, let me know at : antique101@hotmail.com I may add to this if I've forgotten anything important. bm From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun May 9 18:42:49 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405092134.i49LY0Io021685@spies.com> Message-ID: <409EC1F9.3060500@jetnet.ab.ca> Al Kossow wrote: >>what is the total file space needed to mirror all of bitsavers? > > > currently, on the order of 20gBytes, going up about 50mBytes/day > > . > So how many DVD's is that? BTW I give CD's a good 15's of life in the microwave? Ben. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun May 9 18:57:48 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 References: <004501c43566$3e471a40$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: <409EC57C.9C5BBC73@compsys.to> >beclassic wrote: > [Snip] > through a 1000 baud modem. I believe the latest RT11 I used was v.3B, but > v.4 may also be there. > I have the usual stuff that went with operating the machine: > - printed docs ( box of paper ) for diagnostics, plus microfiche version > - original diagnostics on RL01 > - original manuals for each item (I think) > - some hardware diagrams/schematics, along with installation booklets > - 8-10 of the small paperback books of equipment from DEC > - 4-5 large blue notebooks from DEC regarding operating system, etc. > - maybe 9 RL01 disk packs in total - a few used RX01s > - software - RT11, BASIC, Fortran?, TSX?, DBL? - some confusion in this > since the distributions came from a third-party developer via RL01, not from > DEC on distribution-type media. > [Snip] Jerome Fine replies: Since I switched to using RT-11 / TSX-PLUS and other PDP-11 software under these OSs using an emulator that runs 15 times as fast as a real DEC PDP-11/93, I don't really have much interest in the real PDP-11 hardware. And since I am a software addict, that suits me perfectly. BUT, I am attempting to preserve as much RT-11 / TSX-PLUS software as possible. I am in the last stages of getting V1-0 of a CD with 13 different distributions of RT-11 ready (from V1-15 to V05.03). So having access to as many of the old RT-11 distributions as possible is the goal. If possible, I would like a copy of all of the RT-11 / TSX-PLUS distributions, the operating systems and the layered products. Are there any RT-11 distributions among the media, including the BASIC, FORTRAN and DBL? Is there some way that you could copy them? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun May 9 20:55:07 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> John Allain wrote: > Patrick's information is pretty complete. I'll mention that DSSI/RFxx > _drives_ are easier to find than controllers, and for SDI/RAxx series > both controllers and drives are not hard to find. Someone up in > Massachusetts sold me a beautiful RA92 drive a year ago for $50, > and seemed to have dozens more. > > Also I wouldn't be surprised if you could boot directly from the network, > instead of a floppy, but not sure of that one. I have a MV-III with a DEQNA interface and RQDX3 w/RD54, and a MOP boot with all filesystems *and* swap on remote NFS partitions is considerably faster than running on the RD54. Doc From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun May 9 20:38:14 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: cd longevity References: <200405092134.i49LY0Io021685@spies.com> Message-ID: <004601c4362f$76975ad0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al; I sent an email to you or to the list, don't recall which - never got a reply, offering to provide a mirror of bitsavers. 20gb is a non-issue, and I have multiple 100mb feeds via ethernet. If you want to just let me know, no big deal either way. Jay From aw288 at osfn.org Sun May 9 22:49:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. > Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. Are you sure it was the "first" (good use of Quites, by the way)? I am pretty sure IBM had them for some time. > But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on > mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the > surface. I can look again, but I am pretty certain I saw only seven things on the head. I don't know if this is important, but these are ex-Western Union machines, and they liked to be difficult. Perhaps a special oder from MDS? > How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. Space. > Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and > mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few > more still in existence. I actually have two. I am getting rid of the "spare". William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun May 9 22:52:06 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: <003201c43586$ac474c20$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: > Back in 69-70, I was an operator in a shop where they used Mohawk data entry > systems for (mainly) salary-related work. The model they used, only had 1 > reel. The "used" part of the tape was just falling down into a drawer. The > systems worked like shit (sorry to say so), as we had read errors on just > about every tape we attempted to read. Sounds right! I have to wonder how many times tape was damaged by just falling into the slot improperly. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 9 23:48:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. > > Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. > > Are you sure it was the "first" (good use of Quites, by the way)? I am > pretty sure IBM had them for some time. Which is why I use quotes :) I've been around long enough to know you rarely (if ever) claim anything is the "first" of anything. This is as far as I know, without having researched it in depth. If you know of an earlier IBM product then I'd like to know about it. > > But are you sure it's 7-track? I haven't been able to tell for sure on > > mine because the head is tucked away such that you can't really see the > > surface. > > I can look again, but I am pretty certain I saw only seven things on the > head. I don't know if this is important, but these are ex-Western Union > machines, and they liked to be difficult. Perhaps a special oder from MDS? Possibly. I haven't been able to get a good look myself. I tried removing a plate from the opposite end of the head block that I thought would allow me to peer at the head but there wasn't a hole where I thought there would be one. In the process, I dropped one of the screws for affixing the plate to the head block down the tape take-up bin. Nice. Now I have to go fishing for it with a magnetic tipped telescoping rod or something (I'm not going to try tipping this thing upside down to get it ;) > > How come RCS/RI doesn't want this? It's a nice piece of old iron. > > Space. The final frontier. > > Hopefully someone gets it (someone other than the scrapman). Yours and > > mine are the only ones I know of, though I'm sure there are at least a few > > more still in existence. > > I actually have two. I am getting rid of the "spare". Yep, worst cast put it on the VCM (or eBay if you must). Perhaps the Computer History Museum might want it... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Mon May 10 01:34:28 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Heathkit 3400 Microcomputer Trainer Message-ID: <409F2274.DCCFA0DE@rain.org> There is a Heathkit 3400 Microcomputer including manual up on Ebay with a starting bid of $30.00. It appears to be in the wrong catagory, so it might be missed by some: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1504&item=3814941860&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW From hansp at citem.org Mon May 10 01:55:30 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: 7 track tape terminal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409F2762.3000600@citem.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Sun, 9 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > >>>The "first" key-to-tape. A pretty useful device, really, for that era. >>>Tap data directly to tape and then load it onto the mainframe. >>> >>> >>Are you sure it was the "first" (good use of Quites, by the way)? I am >>pretty sure IBM had them for some time. >> >> >Which is why I use quotes :) I've been around long enough to know you >rarely (if ever) claim anything is the "first" of anything. This is as >far as I know, without having researched it in depth. If you know of an >earlier IBM product then I'd like to know about it. > > ISTR reading somewhere that UNIVAC had these well before most other companies. [ Sounds of rummaging around google] http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/randy.carpenter/folklore/v5n1.html : No punched card devices were provided with the UNIVAC, so the UNITYPER data entry machine was developed. The data entry clerk typed on a keyboard, and the UNITYPER recorded the values on a reel of metal tape. This lack of integration with punched card systems became a marketing handicap. Many prospective customers already had significant investment in tabulating card systems. When IBM entered the computer business, it made sure that it offered computers that fit easily into existing card processing installations. To fill this gap, Eckert-Mauchly developed a stand-alone card-to-tape unit, which could process 100 cards per minute. Since Eckert-Mauchly was an independent company at the time the design of the card-to-tape converter was done, it naturally followed the market and built a machine that handled IBM's 80-column cards. Sometime after the acquisition by Remington Rand, a version to handle 90-column cards was developed. That would have to be in the early 50's.... -- HansP From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Mon May 10 05:43:28 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available References: <016401c43239$b8147690$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <409F5CD0.8040507@gmx.net> Hi Jay, got no answer off list, so I'm trying on list. Just a couple of days after your message my vt100 broke with ROM 2 error. So it doesn't sucessfully finish self test anymore. Do you still have some vt100 parts? Maybe the basic pcb? TIA Gerold Jay West wrote: > Tony wrote... > >>Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll >>fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same >>type of CRT). The swap is not hard. > > > That is exactly what I did, and why I have a vt102 without case, and an > empty vt100 case :) > > Jay From bernd at kopriva.de Mon May 10 09:47:31 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) Message-ID: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. The seller doesn't want to ship internationally (i asked him before, but got no response in time ...). Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of course for all expenses ! Thanks alot Bernd From mtapley at swri.edu Mon May 10 09:42:00 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues In-Reply-To: <200404301127.i3UBRcdl041907@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404301127.i3UBRcdl041907@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Update: At 14:14 -0500 4/29/04, Mark Tapley wrote: >1) Screen display is too far to the left. At 23:59 +0100, 4/29/04 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) replied: > On the back of the yoke are 2 metal plates. >Rotating them, either together or in oposite directios, will move the >picture (strictly the raster, but anyway..) around on the screen. Got the machine far enough apart to spot those and play with them yesterday. Sure enough, that fixed the screen-shift (and it's almost a certainty that I disturbed them when I took out the Elf Armor). FWIW, the plates are perpendicular to the path of the electrons in the CRT and more or less centered on that path near the back end of the CRT. They are circular (umm, annular? I can't see anything but a mm or two at the rim of the circle), and have little tabs at 2 locations 180 degrees apart. There are 2 plates, stacked together. They are "finger tight". I fooled with them while watching the image, but I used an insulated tool, so I didn't fool with them much. A slight twist (maybe 15 degrees) on one of them moved the image right where I wanted it. Thanks, Tony! Still in the to-do list: ordering a new rectifier (thanks, Chris!) against the day my CR5 dies (but it seems OK right now, picture is fine and steady) and borrowing an o-scope to see how much ripple is on the 5V line. And probably saving up for an ESR meter to test the caps around the connector that goes to the digital board, and probably getting a new capacitor or two. And retouching J4. After the picture adjust, coincidentally, machine ran fine for several hours yesterday (all the time I could spend on it). Love that BrainStorm! -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 10 09:56:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23, RL01s,RX01s,VT100,LA120 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Don't know if this would work here on the list, but would be sure to be a > big hit at VCFEast! We could host it there. We can also host it on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon May 10 09:59:50 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Hi, > i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ woo hoo! > The seller doesn't want to ship lazy bastard > Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of course for all expenses ! Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it shipped? info - info - info! Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 10 10:01:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html > > ** WARNING!! ** > > These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many > disturbing images. You have been warned!! Those are some of the most interesting vintage computer pictures I've ever seen! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 10 10:06:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > In Ohio they would have been a rusty spot in the grass. I wonder what they > were thinking having those units in a yard 15 years uncovered, maybe they > were waiting on the scrap value to rise enough to be able to scrap them? Some people take the "Sunny California" canard a bit too seriously. I picked up an Imlac PDS-1D from an aerospace engineer in southern California a few years back. It'd been sitting outside against his house, under the eaves of the roof. At least it was mostly covered, but you'd expect an engineer to know better. He probably thought that since there's no humidity (and therefore no rusting) in space, there's was no problem in leaving a metal chassis outside. Talk about having your head in the clouds. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon May 10 10:12:09 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search Message-ID: \begin opinion Seems like the best method for very long term storage in theory is ion beam on iridium disk More practical methods include the following: I have also heard that using archival quality ink in a retrofitted ink jet printer printed on acid-free paper may work for reasonable amounts of time. The plastic ink particles in laser toner are very susceptible to environmental factors. I know that for land surveys that archival ink using a pen plotter on vellum is "best". \end opinion References http://www.uky.edu/~kiernan/DL/hedstrom.html Digital preservation: a time bomb for Digital Libraries. www.tims-im.ca/Whitepapers/22010v052p.pdf Preserving Information Forever and a Call for Emulators. Archives: Preserving Bits, Formats, Documents, and Wisdom www.berghell.com/ whitepapers/Archives%20-%20Preserving%20Bits,%20Formats,%20Documents,%20 and%20Wisdom.pdf - Mike From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 10 10:19:18 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search References: Message-ID: <16543.40310.119000.506477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike McFadden writes: Mike> I know that for land surveys that archival ink using a pen Mike> plotter on vellum is "best". What is "archival ink"? I'd agree if the ink used is "india ink" (carbon black based ink -- the classic stuff used in Chinese/Japanese calligraphy). At one point, pen plotters could accept drafting pens, such as the famous Rotring/Rapidograph. Fill one with india ink and plot on vellum, keep it try, and you should be ok for many centuries. Any other kind of ink I'd wonder about. paul From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon May 10 10:26:41 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search Message-ID: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. Sumerians did this 6000 years ago and their writings are still perfectly readable. MS From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 10 10:37:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 23:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The Atari TT030 is a *VERY* cool machine. The OS is in ROM, and it > is able to use standard SCSI drives (mine has a 1GB drive), and it > can be hooked up to a VGA monitor. I've got an 80MB drive from a Mac LCIII lined up to replce the 40MB drive in there with the bearing fault... assuming that SCSI drives for use with Apple machines work with everything else... > It uses FAT formated floppies, and IIRC, some or all have 1.44MB floppy drives. I dropped the machine off at the museum and then forgot to bring the hard drive back home with me to hook up to the Linux system and see if it has a FAT filesystem too - d'oh! > What do you mean by install media? Is some kind of software needed > to get it to recognize the HD? I'm not sure where the split is between what's in ROM and what's on the hard drive. When it starts up, it mentions loading the hard disk driver - which is presumably in ROM :-) Then it boots into a windowed environment (GEM?), but I'm not sure if that loads off the hard drive (in which case I'd like to get install media for that) or if that's also in ROM. I would have expected (particularly as it seems possible to run NetBSD on these things) that the OS was more character-based and primarily a collection of ROM-based library routines, and the desktop environment was loaded from disk, but I could easily be wrong there. Also when the hard drive was present but not spinning properly, the machine just sat there with a white screen - implying that it expected/needed the hard disk in order to boot into the window environment. What about formatting a new hard drive? Is the formatter in ROM? (In which case is there a low level setup type of routine in ROM I somehow access pre-boot?) Or is there a seperate floppy (which I don't have) which contains hard disk formatter / partitioner etc.? > As you mention, they aren't that common, and do fall between the ST > and the Falcon. The Falcon has the advantage of supporting more > colours, but the TT030 is about twice as fast. I am quite keen to get BSD on this. Not sure if that'd also allow me to also use the LAN port to connect to an Apple network or not, but there's always PPP over a serial link I suppose. Wonder if they can be dual-booted into BSD and a more traditional desktop enviroment.... cheers Jules From bpope at wordstock.com Mon May 10 10:31:22 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google In-Reply-To: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at May 10, 04 08:26:41 am Message-ID: <200405101531.LAA11559@wordstock.com> And thusly Michael Sokolov spake: > > The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a > tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. > Sumerians did this 6000 years ago and their writings are still perfectly > readable. > > MS > Now we just need to find a way to get more storage per square inch of baked clay. Cheers, Bryan From jpl15 at panix.com Mon May 10 10:40:52 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a > tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. > Sumerians did this 6000 years ago and their writings are still perfectly > readable. Hmmmmm.... not only a Cunieform Assembler, but the "printer" to form the raw clay, inscribe the tablets, and complete with an automatic kiln to bake 'em afterwards. This is obviously what .zip files were really meant for. "My, what a large file... over 300 megatabs and still growing!" Cheers Hamurabi From emu at ecubics.com Mon May 10 10:52:02 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <409FA522.6020405@ecubics.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: > The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the information on a > tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after which it becomes hard as rock. I tried to put this wet clay in a typewriter. What a mess ! ;-) From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 10:49:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040501122557.S65296@newshell.lmi.net> <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: >** WARNING!! ** > >These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many >disturbing images. You have been warned!! No kidding, I feel like throwing up now. At least some of the boards were salvageable. As pointed out, in other area's they'd be a total loss. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 10:51:33 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> References: <003801c435dd$cb4c0d20$0500fea9@game> <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: >We all spend more on storage than on housing. For those that this is true, it might be time to give some serious thought as to wether they should be in the hobby. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 10 11:13:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google References: <0405101526.AA06549@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200405101531.LAA11559@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <16543.43570.324000.752698@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Bryan" == Bryan Pope writes: Bryan> And thusly Michael Sokolov spake: >> The best long-term storage method I know of is to inscribe the >> information on a tablet of wet clay and bake it in an oven, after >> which it becomes hard as rock. Sumerians did this 6000 years ago >> and their writings are still perfectly readable. >> >> MS >> Bryan> Now we just need to find a way to get more storage per square Bryan> inch of baked clay. See http://www.rosettaproject.org/live paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 10 10:53:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:25 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: References: <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> <200405101459.i4AExahc049881@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040510115340.0082e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> . Here's another one from the same seller. Joe At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > >> Hi, >> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >woo hoo! > >> The seller doesn't want to ship > >lazy bastard > > >> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of course for all expenses ! > > Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >shipped? > >info - info - info! > > >Cheers > >John > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 11:27:05 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: >I've got an 80MB drive from a Mac LCIII lined up to replce the 40MB >drive in there with the bearing fault... assuming that SCSI drives for >use with Apple machines work with everything else... I think Apple just added to what was there, I've used a 20MB Apple SCSI drive on a PDP-11 when I needed a drive that was physically smaller than 30MB to transfer some data. >I'm not sure where the split is between what's in ROM and what's on the >hard drive. When it starts up, it mentions loading the hard disk driver >- which is presumably in ROM :-) Then it boots into a windowed >environment (GEM?), but I'm not sure if that loads off the hard drive >(in which case I'd like to get install media for that) or if that's also >in ROM. The GUI and all of the basic OS are in ROM. I'm assuming that you can have some kind of OS extensions on the HD. Not really to sure, I'm not that familiar with TOS. >What about formatting a new hard drive? Is the formatter in ROM? (In >which case is there a low level setup type of routine in ROM I somehow >access pre-boot?) Or is there a seperate floppy (which I don't have) >which contains hard disk formatter / partitioner etc.? Good question, this is what I'm wondering myself. >I am quite keen to get BSD on this. Not sure if that'd also allow me to >also use the LAN port to connect to an Apple network or not, but there's >always PPP over a serial link I suppose. > >Wonder if they can be dual-booted into BSD and a more traditional >desktop enviroment.... I'm guessing that BSD is started from TOS on these systems somehow. I never got around to trying to install BSD or Linux on mine. IIRC, the Serial ports are wicked fast, you'd want to hook them up to something like 16550 UART's on a PC. There was a project to adapt the SCSI-to-Ethernet adapters for the Mac to work on these a few years ago, I don't know whatever happened with that. I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it better and faster for free. Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 have? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bernd at kopriva.de Mon May 10 11:32:41 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040510115340.0082e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405101645.i4AGj4hc051302@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, you're really very attentive :-) Bernd On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:40 -0400, Joe R. wrote: >&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW>. Here's another one from the same seller. >&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> > > Joe > > >At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>woo hoo! >> >>> The seller doesn't want to ship >> >>lazy bastard >> >> >>> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of >course for all expenses ! >> >> Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >>shipped? >> >>info - info - info! >> >> >>Cheers >> >>John >> >> >> From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 10 11:49:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 16:27, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >What about formatting a new hard drive? Is the formatter in ROM? (In > >which case is there a low level setup type of routine in ROM I somehow > >access pre-boot?) Or is there a seperate floppy (which I don't have) > >which contains hard disk formatter / partitioner etc.? > > Good question, this is what I'm wondering myself. if it does turn out to be FAT on the hard drive too then it's not a problem, as again I can use a Linux system to format a drive as FAT. Whether it'd be a PC-style partition table is another matter though! > I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these > systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it > better and faster for free. It's just nice as a museum exhibit though, if we're able to show it running both a windowing environment and a real Unix with networking too. Worst-case I assume the system boots from SCSI target 0, so I could have both an internal and external disk hooked up, one with the standard TT filesystem on it and one with BSD - then just have a switch which is set prior to turning the machine on which decides which is target 0 and which is (say) target 1. > Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 have? Ahh, 'only' 4MB on this one I think. Just enough for running BSD I believe though. I did come across some info on the web on how to increase the memory in them, but there's too much work to be done on other things to justify spending a huge amount of time messing around with this! cheers Jules From aek at spies.com Mon May 10 11:53:47 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <004601c4362f$76975ad0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200405101653.i4AGrlxw013898@spies.com> I would be interested. probably easiest to make a set of 5 dvd-r's to start From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 10 12:00:17 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available References: <016401c43239$b8147690$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <409F5CD0.8040507@gmx.net> Message-ID: <003c01c436b0$45864d30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sorry, haven't had a chance to really go through inbound mail for a few days... I'm so sick of work getting in the way of my hobby. I keep eyeing that 50 year retirement goal. Course it'll be hard to find new classics in 10 years I bet :) I'd just about give my left arm to really make enough at the hobby to just do it full time and quit work. Hey, I can dream. I should have a spare logic board. I'm off work Monday through Wednesday of this week. So goal 1 is to go through the vt100 post responses and get everything shipped/disposed of. I'll let you know tonight or tomorrow. Was up till 3:30am dealing with work stuff so I'm not sure I would recognize a vt100 in my condition heh. Back at ya later. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerold Pauler" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:43 AM Subject: Re: DEC vt100 terminal stuff / parts available > Hi Jay, > > got no answer off list, so I'm trying on list. > > Just a couple of days after your message my vt100 > broke with ROM 2 error. So it doesn't sucessfully > finish self test anymore. > > Do you still have some vt100 parts? > Maybe the basic pcb? > > TIA > Gerold > > Jay West wrote: > > Tony wrote... > > > >>Why don't you move one of the VT100's CRTs into the VT102 chassis? It'll > >>fit perfectly, there are no electrical mods either (AFAIK it is the same > >>type of CRT). The swap is not hard. > > > > > > That is exactly what I did, and why I have a vt102 without case, and an > > empty vt100 case :) > > > > Jay > > > From allain at panix.com Mon May 10 12:21:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org><007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I have a MV-III with a DEQNA interface and RQDX3 w/RD54, > and a MOP boot with all filesystems *and* swap on remote NFS > partitions is considerably faster than running on the RD54. My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI -> SDI and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, leading to the 3520 and '40. (going out on a limb now) I would actually be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with MFM drives. Perhaps TMaC's system was customised by a prior user? John A. From arcarlini at iee.org Mon May 10 12:45:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002d01c436b6$943d2740$5b01a8c0@athlon> > My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI > -> SDI and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, > leading to the 3520 and '40. (going out on a limb now) I > would actually be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with > MFM drives. Perhaps TMaC's system was customised by a prior user? There was a low-end VS3500 that shipped with an RD5x drive: it was called the VAXstation 3200. It came in a BA23 box IIRC. Anyone who considered a VS3500 a performance machine (even when it came out) was on something or in someone's pay or utterly clueless :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 10 12:22:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <200405101645.i4AGj4hc051302@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040510115340.0082e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040510132206.00936540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bernd, I use E-bay A LOT! I can forward the stuff to you. Do you still have my address? If anyone is closer to the seller and can pick up the item in person (it's in Washington somewhere) and then ship it to you it might save you having to pay for shipping twice but if no one is closer you can have them ship it to me here in Florida and I'll forward it on to you. Joe At 06:32 PM 5/10/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Joe, >you're really very attentive :-) > >Bernd > >On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:40 -0400, Joe R. wrote: > >>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW>. Here's another one from the same seller. >>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> >> >> Joe >> >> >>At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>woo hoo! >>> >>>> The seller doesn't want to ship >>> >>>lazy bastard >>> >>> >>>> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of >>course for all expenses ! >>> >>> Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >>>shipped? >>> >>>info - info - info! >>> >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>> > > > > From bernd at kopriva.de Mon May 10 13:39:58 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: OT: eBay item forwarder needed (from USA to Germany) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040510132206.00936540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405101851.i4AIpvhc052037@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, yes i still have your adress (if it's still the same as in March 2003) :-) ... I made a quick comparison of shipping costs from Gaithersburg, MD 20879 to Florida and Northern Nevada (hi John :-)) ... ... and Florida seems to be a little bit cheaper (if i made no mistake). I didn't think, that the distance has any importance, as shipping costs within germany depend only on weight (and sometimes on size). ... so anyone, who can save me some shipping costs is invited ! Thanks to all, who have already responded ! Bernd On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:22:06 -0400, Joe R. wrote: >Hi Bernd, > > I use E-bay A LOT! I can forward the stuff to you. Do you still have my >address? If anyone is closer to the seller and can pick up the item in >person (it's in Washington somewhere) and then ship it to you it might save >you having to pay for shipping twice but if no one is closer you can have >them ship it to me here in Florida and I'll forward it on to you. > > Joe > >At 06:32 PM 5/10/04 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi Joe, >>you're really very attentive :-) >> >>Bernd >> >>On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:40 -0400, Joe R. wrote: >> >>>>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW>. Here's another one from the same seller. >>>>>&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>>At 10:59 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> i'm the winner of an eBay auction for an AMI Goliath board. >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>woo hoo! >>>> >>>>> The seller doesn't want to ship >>>> >>>>lazy bastard >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can anyone accept delivery and forward the stuff to me ? I will pay of >>>course for all expenses ! >>>> >>>> Where is this board? What is the eBay Item number? How do you want it >>>>shipped? >>>> >>>>info - info - info! >>>> >>>> >>>>Cheers >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> From marvin at rain.org Mon May 10 13:37:10 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: VCM Listings Message-ID: <409FCBD6.9430FAF7@rain.org> Just a heads up; I have started to list stuff on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. The things being listed are what I can easily get to right now :). http://marketplace.vintage.org/ Besides what I am listing, there are some other interesting things there! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 15:49:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Proof of concept Message-ID: <200405101853.i4AIrEss019152@mail.ezwind.net> The sample is attached! From zmerch at 30below.com Mon May 10 14:09:06 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton Hamvention this year, taking off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... staying until Sunday morning/noonish, I believe. Any good things to see/do/visit/eat/drink whilst I'm there? Thanks, and who knows? Maybe I'll finally meet someone else on the list "like, in person, eh?" ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Mon May 10 14:22:02 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: FA: Collection of Otrona Attache Parts -- Complete System? Message-ID: <00d401c436c4$1260f310$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> I collected a number of Otrona parts over the years with the intent of reassembling them into a working system, but that hasn't happened, and I think other interests are going to keep me from ever spending the time it needs. I think almost everything you need to build a basic working system is here. I have the following items available, up at auction on the Vintage Computer Marketplace... http://marketplace.vintage.org/bid.cfm?ad=727 All items are completely and totally untested. Links to photos are on the listing at the link above. * Six CPU boards, "pulls"... Most with parts on them, one bare board. The ones with parts all have some parts missing that I think are relatively easy to find: 765 floppy controller chip, Z80 PIO or SOI, or 5027 video controllers, etc. Only one board has a 5027 on it, but I also have a "loose" 5027 that I will include. I have EPROM images for the CPU board EPROMs. * Three floppy drives loose plus two in their chassis components--the special not-quite-half-height drives the Attache used; * GPIB cards in various states of assembly, rework, or disassembly. I believe there is also an 8086 card, but it's stripped of parts. * Case and chassis parts that I believe are enough to build (or reface) a complete unit, include outside cover, two rear bezels (one with PSU attached to it), a front bezel still wrapped in foam, keyboard shell top and bottom halves, handle; * Additional keyboard assembly, dirty, but usable; plus three keyboards without case. * One video/CRT field replacement unit (tube + boards + mounting hardware), plus an extra video board, extra yoke, and another incomplete video assembly. I think I also have a third partial assembly in a box; if I find it, it will be included. * A number of expansion/daughter cards for 25th line, graphics, and high-res graphics; some are loose, but some are mounted to CPU boards (see photos). * CP/M boot disks in unknown condition (images also available from Don Maslin, I believe). * Binder with schematics. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 14:28:17 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > > I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these >> systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it >> better and faster for free. > >It's just nice as a museum exhibit though, if we're able to show it >running both a windowing environment and a real Unix with networking >too. But if you want to use the system as a museum exhibit, wouldn't it be best to show it running it's original OS? I can see loading Unix if the OS wasn't available, but for the TT030 it is. > > Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 have? > >Ahh, 'only' 4MB on this one I think. Just enough for running BSD I >believe though. I did come across some info on the web on how to >increase the memory in them, but there's too much work to be done on >other things to justify spending a huge amount of time messing around >with this! I think that might have been the basic amount, that's how much mine has. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From david_comley at yahoo.com Mon May 10 14:49:53 2004 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040510194953.24700.qmail@web13523.mail.yahoo.com> Marion's Pizza. A Dayton classic. Once eaten never forgotten. -Dave --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton > Hamvention this year, taking > off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... > staying until Sunday > morning/noonish, I believe. Any good things to > see/do/visit/eat/drink > whilst I'm there? > > Thanks, and who knows? Maybe I'll finally meet > someone else on the list > "like, in person, eh?" ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't > speculate." > sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. > Bernstein > zmerch@30below.com | > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon May 10 15:11:34 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1eae0dad4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton Hamvention this year, taking > off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... staying until Sunday > morning/noonish, I believe. Well, in that case, have a safe journey. Oh, and more importantly, have fun at the Hamvention. I'm off to the Wakefield RISCOS Computer Club's show on Saturday - usually plenty of bargains to be had on the charity stall. I got an Acorn Pocketbook I (Psion 3a) for ?15 last year, complete with link cable, all the manuals, all the packaging and the power supply. Shame it didn't come with the OPL Programming cartridge, though. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI Electronics rule #1: A $500 component will blow to protect a $10 surge protector. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 10 15:11:40 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! References: <20040510194953.24700.qmail@web13523.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409FE1FC.1000904@jetnet.ab.ca> David Comley wrote: > Marion's Pizza. A Dayton classic. Once eaten never > forgotten. That could be taken two ways ya know. :) Still it is nice to know good places to eat when traveling. Ben. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon May 10 15:29:40 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040510202940.8522.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Is there computer stuff in the hamfest? I browsed their webpages but what I saw are all radio stuff. vax, 3900 --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm actually going to make it to the Dayton > Hamvention this year, taking > off Friday morning, for about a 9.5 hour drive... > staying until Sunday > morning/noonish, I believe. Any good things to > see/do/visit/eat/drink > whilst I'm there? > > Thanks, and who knows? Maybe I'll finally meet > someone else on the list > "like, in person, eh?" ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't > speculate." > sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. > Bernstein > zmerch@30below.com | > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon May 10 15:44:27 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040510134357.02a47d50@mail.zipcon.net> You might want to go here and email them :) they might have TT030 install diskettes :) http://elfsoft.home.mindspring.com/ From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 10 16:12:35 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Dayton, here I come! In-Reply-To: <20040510202940.8522.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040510144838.00aec320@mail.30below.com> <20040510202940.8522.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040510211235.GA24888@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 01:29:40PM -0700, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > Is there computer stuff in the hamfest? I browsed > their webpages but what I saw are all radio stuff. Not so much indoors, but lots of the flea market stuff is computer-related. They also host a computer-only show in March and August that's 100% indoors... there used to be lots of flea-marketish stuff, but a few years ago they changed the table rates and made things too expensive for people selling $5 motherboards to effectively show up. I do buy a lot of connectors and cables, though, at the ComputerFest. Sometimes modern RAM, CPUs and blank media. If you can arrive at the opening bell on Friday (presuming you aren't a seller and browsing on Thursday night ;-), you *might* be able to find a classic bargain or two. The other scrounge time is Sunday right before closing time - people abandon stuff rather than take it home - that's how I got my first PDP-8/L for 20% of the marked price... the guy didn't want to load it in the trailer in the rain. Over the years, I've found PDP-8 hardware (more in the past than recently, though there was an -8/a last year), an RCA VIP, an ASR-33, DECmates, C-64 and VIC-20 bits, a hand-held proprietary bar code scanner with a 4004 inside, machine pin sockets, crystals, even bags of parts that were later turned into GG2 Bus+ boards. Pound for pound, though, most of the computer components in the flea market, are recently obsolete Intel hardware, Macintosh and Sun boxes. Oh, yeah... weather has *lots* to do with how good a HamFest it is... hot and sunny days can really hurt. People tarp things up in the rain, but an on-and-off rainy weekend can force some real bargains out of the sellers. And watch where you park... I prefer to pay for a spot in the grass by the BBQ restaurant that's to the left of the arena as you leave (can't remember what cardinal direction that's in)... get there early. It's not a bad place for lunch and a beer when you walk back with your morning haul, either. Enjoy! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.5 F (-57.5 C) Windchill -115.4 F (-81.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.9 kts Grid 059 Barometer 681.4 mb (10571. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From adamg at pobox.com Sun May 9 21:41:03 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen Message-ID: <20040510024103.GA61688@silme.pair.com> I have a "Gibson Light Pen by Koala", with software and docs. Does anyone know if this is truly the "sucessor" to the LPS II or just a repackaged version? -- Adam From pzachary at sasquatch.com Sun May 9 23:45:50 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1084087561.5979.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <51791.216.218.236.136.1084164350.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> Q: is there any problem using a H720 in place of the H724? it looks like it should work... Sadly, the memory box I got out of this has issues, some locations work, some don't but I think I'll be able to fix it. Report on pdp-11/35 salvage from this lot; fans, 1 spun freely, 1 spun after a lillte work, all the others TOTALED. the power supply bricks work, I replaced the H724 with a H720 that I'd bought NOS(!) a while back. enclosure, the paint is very faded, but the case is fair. There is a 3/4" strand of ivy winding through the power harness bulkhead in such a way that I left a 6" long section as removing it would have destroyed the connectors (at least someone might be amused years from now.) Cards: the machine seems to have been partially stripped, much of the mamory, all interface and controllers and any cpu options are missing, intact are part of a couple MM-11Us and a complete basic CPU set. I spent some hours cleaning the card edges and found useable backplanes in my stuff as the existing ones look pretty bad, the core backplanes might be salvagable but the CPU backplane is badly corroded. the H960 casters roll smoothly (some sort of"tough love"? all the ones I'v gotten in pristine racks have a mind of their own) Pavl_ > On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> How well does DEC stuff handle weather? > > Poorly. > > Paul, Fred and myself collected all of this last weekend. Our > "adventure" is now up on my web site at: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/rescue/index.html > > ** WARNING!! ** > > These pages may not be suitable for all viewers! They contain many > disturbing images. You have been warned!! > -- > > TTFN - Guy From Bogilady at aol.com Mon May 10 11:10:39 2004 From: Bogilady at aol.com (Bogilady@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s in various conditions. I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can use them. I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is simply overwhelming. Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. Cathy From stegeman.h at 12move.nl Mon May 10 14:57:36 2004 From: stegeman.h at 12move.nl (henk stegeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: IBM Ssytem/7 restoration project needs a operator panel. Message-ID: <001101c436c9$0e2a5c00$1406a8c0@PC01> Hi all, I am currently restoring an old IBM System/7 to running condition. Please see http://www.anysystems.nl/system7.html#Top for pictures of this restoration project. I am currently searching desperately for an operator front panel of this system. See: http://www.anysystems.nl/history/system7/operator.panel.jpg Who can help me ? Thanks for any reactions. Regards Henk Stegeman IBM restorer. From sieler at allegro.com Mon May 10 15:36:20 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: IEM HP-IB devices (was Cool stuff!) In-Reply-To: <200405080206.i4826hbT010254@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <409F8554.31210.1952681C@localhost> Re: > My box has an HP-IB to SCSI motherboard and an HP 4.0Gb DAT SCSI > tape drive. ... > It claims to work with MPE and HPUX and to be compatible with > the HP 7978 tape drive (and the C1511 whatever that is). C1511 is an HP DDS drive. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 10 16:17:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040510211706.GB24888@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 03:37:23PM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > I've got an 80MB drive from a Mac LCIII lined up to replce the 40MB > drive in there with the bearing fault... assuming that SCSI drives for > use with Apple machines work with everything else... I have seen Apple-ROMmed ST1480s and a few other SCSI drives that were once required when you used Apple formatting tools, but the drives still responded to the usual geometry inquiry packets. The typical problem was that you couldn't put a Seagate or other OEMmed drive in your Mac unless you had a patched formatting tool or used a 3rd party tool. Apple-branded drives always worked in other machines. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-May-2004 21:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.7 F (-57.6 C) Windchill -126.7 F (-88.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.5 kts Grid 056 Barometer 681.3 mb (10575. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 17:23:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> from "Bogilady@aol.com" at May 10, 2004 12:10:39 PM Message-ID: <200405102223.i4AMNUQO008343@onyx.spiritone.com> > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > 1990s in various conditions. > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > use them. > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > simply overwhelming. > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > Cathy > Some details as to the type of computer equipment and a slightly better idea of the location in the Northwest might be helpful. There are several of us on the list that live in the Northwest. Knowing what, and how much is the most important though, as that will give people an idea as to wether they're interested or not. Zane From news at computercollector.com Mon May 10 17:25:51 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040510222551.80980.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Hi there, I'm not sure if he does estate sales, but I strongly suggest you contact Sellam Ismail, who owns a company in Silicon Valley called VintageTech. You may have seen his name on this list as well as "VCF" or "Vintage Computer Festival." Anyway, Sellam's pretty much the biggest collector in the known galaxy, and his company, VintageTech, lets him do this hobby for a living. You can reach Sellam at vcf@vintage.org. Why you should trust my opinion: I'm the founder/editor of Computer Collector, which is an online news magazine (with about 500 subscribers each week) serving the hobby. Good luck, -- Evan Koblentz (PS -- I personally collect handhelds and PDAs. If there are any in the collection, I'd like to look through the list.) --- Bogilady@aol.com wrote: > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes > > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > 1990s in various conditions. > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > use them. > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > simply overwhelming. > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > Cathy From rick at rickmurphy.net Mon May 10 17:24:01 2004 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040510182037.01ea9058@mail.itm-inst.com> At 01:21 PM 5/10/2004, John Allain wrote: > > I have a MV-III with a DEQNA interface and RQDX3 w/RD54, > > and a MOP boot with all filesystems *and* swap on remote NFS > > partitions is considerably faster than running on the RD54. > >My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI >-> SDI and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, >leading to the 3520 and '40. (going out on a limb now) I would actually >be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with MFM drives. >Perhaps TMaC's system was customised by a prior user? It's the latter - a VAX 3500 in a BA123 into which I installed my old GPX card set. Some other answers about the system - it does have a RQDX3. It boots off of floppy (RX50) currently and did boot the RD54 from my other VAX. The "RX22" mistake was mine - it sounds like a common 1.2 Mb floppy drive might just work as a replacement - this would allow NetBSD floppy boot at least. -Rick From evan947 at yahoo.com Mon May 10 17:54:01 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Oops.... Re: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <20040510222551.80980.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040510225401.60302.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry folks -- I meant to reply to the poster directly, not to the list. Tried to stop it in time but failed. Please don't judge me for it! Evan --- Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm not sure if he does estate sales, but I strongly suggest you contact > Sellam > Ismail, who owns a company in Silicon Valley called VintageTech. You may > have > seen his name on this list as well as "VCF" or "Vintage Computer Festival." > Anyway, Sellam's pretty much the biggest collector in the known galaxy, and > his > company, VintageTech, lets him do this hobby for a living. > > You can reach Sellam at vcf@vintage.org. > > Why you should trust my opinion: I'm the founder/editor of Computer > Collector, > which is an online news magazine (with about 500 subscribers each week) > serving > the hobby. > > Good luck, > > -- Evan Koblentz > > (PS -- I personally collect handhelds and PDAs. If there are any in the > collection, I'd like to look through the list.) > > --- Bogilady@aol.com wrote: > > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that > specializes > > > > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > > 1990s in various conditions. > > > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > > > use them. > > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > > simply overwhelming. > > > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > > Cathy > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 17:09:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google In-Reply-To: <16543.40310.119000.506477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 10, 4 11:19:18 am Message-ID: > > I'd agree if the ink used is "india ink" (carbon black based ink -- > the classic stuff used in Chinese/Japanese calligraphy). At one > point, pen plotters could accept drafting pens, such as the famous > Rotring/Rapidograph. Fill one with india ink and plot on vellum, keep FWIW, the thread on the pen carriage of the Tektronix 4662 plotter (and I assume the 4661, which seems to be mechanically very similar) is identical to that on Rotring pens. Handy.... You can get metal-tip drafting pens for HP plotters too, but I have no idea what sort of ink they contain. Most of them come pre-filled... -tony From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Mon May 10 17:58:39 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: cd longevity In-Reply-To: <200405101653.i4AGrlxw013898@spies.com> Message-ID: <016d01c436e2$55842950$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Yikes, Al, I should have asked how much space you need! :-) What's the size of the archive total? Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:54 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; jwest@classiccmp.org > Cc: aek@spies.com > Subject: Re: cd longevity > > > I would be interested. probably easiest to make a set of 5 > dvd-r's to start > From marvin at rain.org Mon May 10 18:35:48 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse Message-ID: <40A011D4.529CB57F@rain.org> Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon May 10 20:19:13 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> References: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Message-ID: <200405101819130583.14677EE7@192.168.42.129> Hi, Kathy, Suggest you contact Mark Dabek at RE-PC: (206) 575-8737. Good luck. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 10-May-04 at 12:10 Bogilady@aol.com wrote: >Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that >specializes >in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid >1990s in various conditions. > >I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there >can >use them. >I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is >simply overwhelming. > >Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. >Cathy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 10 21:27:58 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <15a.34906a52.2dd1037f@aol.com> Message-ID: Cathy, If you have a list of items, there are numerous collectors and old computer enthusiasts here on the Classic Computer List who may be searching for items that you have. Could you give the folks here a chance before you send things to a liquidator? For example, I know that others and myself have an interest in old computer equipment manufactured by Digital Equipment Corporation. Thanks, Ashley Carder -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bogilady@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:11 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Computer Estate Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s in various conditions. I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can use them. I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is simply overwhelming. Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. Cathy From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 10 21:22:19 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > If you have a list of items, there are numerous collectors and old > computer enthusiasts here on the Classic Computer List who may be > searching for items that you have. Could you give the folks here a > chance before you send things to a liquidator? > For example, I know that others and myself have an interest in old > computer equipment manufactured by Digital Equipment Corporation. Me among them - and I'm interested hearing about in anything from Sun Microsystems too. But if Cathy finds "the rest" to be "simply overwhelming", I would guess that even compiling an accurate inventory is a daunting task, never mind sorting it into any kind of useful order. Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer sorting and inventorying services? I would, except I'm nothing like in the area (on the wrong side of the continent and, I suspect, in the wrong country as well). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From evan947 at yahoo.com Mon May 10 21:34:18 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question Message-ID: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? I'm sitting here holding both in my hand. The IQ version has a label calling it the "Electronic Organizer" while the OZ version has a label calling it the more popular "Wizard." Otherwise they are identical twins (including the instruction manuals.) Unfortunately neither has batteries right now, so I can't boot them to check for OS versions, etc. Even if Sharp merely changed the name from Organizer to Wizard, why would they bother drastically changing the model prefix from IQ- to OZ-? Evan From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon May 10 21:47:43 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question In-Reply-To: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A03ECF.6080102@4mcnabb.net> evan wrote: >Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between >the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? > > > I don't know about your IQ/OZ-7000 models, but I do know that the SL5500 and SL5000D sharp PDAs differed mostly in that the SL-5000D was the developer's version. The SL5500 came with a bit more ROM/RAM and a later version of Linux (yes, I said Linux - way cool), but other than that they are pretty much the same. So, maybe it is something like that. Also, Sharp seems to have different model numbers between English/Japanese versions of things. From vrs at msn.com Mon May 10 22:01:51 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate References: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > But if Cathy finds "the rest" to be "simply overwhelming", I would > guess that even compiling an accurate inventory is a daunting task, > never mind sorting it into any kind of useful order. > > Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer sorting > and inventorying services? I would, except I'm nothing like in the > area (on the wrong side of the continent and, I suspect, in the wrong > country as well). I am in the PDX area, and could probably help with a garage or a storage unit or two. If we are talking warehouses, it would need to be more than just me :-). Also, while my time is probably less encumbered than most, my expertise is somewhat narrow. If it is later than about the mid-80s, others will probably know more about it. Vince From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon May 10 22:12:15 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: >>> But if Cathy finds "the rest" to be "simply overwhelming", >>> I would guess that even compiling an accurate inventory is >>> a daunting task, never mind sorting it into any kind of >>> useful order. Prior to even a list [quite a bit of work perhaps] a few digital (wide angle overview type) shots would be a start to see what might be in the collection. If Cathy does not have a site to post them, e-mail to me, I will post them. Just an idea.... David V. Corbin david@dynamicconcepts.us 631-244-8487 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 10 22:04:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: References: <200405110230.WAA18575@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200405110316.XAA18770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer >> sorting and inventorying services? > [...] > Also, while my time is probably less encumbered than most, my > expertise is somewhat narrow. If it is later than about the mid-80s, > others will probably know more about it. Doubtless. But you are, for example, competent to draw up an inventory "this is a Data General machine with a sticker on the back reading thus...", which is probably more than most people can do. You know what kind of information is worth reporting and what isn't - for example, my mother, who knows _nothing_ about computers, recently tried to describe a machine to me over the phone, and didn't even know enough to skip the mains power spec labeling (the "120VAC 35W" sort of stuff). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From donm at cts.com Mon May 10 23:20:18 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question In-Reply-To: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, evan wrote: > Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between > the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? > > I'm sitting here holding both in my hand. The IQ version has a label calling > it the "Electronic Organizer" while the OZ version has a label calling it the > more popular "Wizard." Otherwise they are identical twins (including the > instruction manuals.) > > Unfortunately neither has batteries right now, so I can't boot them to check > for OS versions, etc. > > Even if Sharp merely changed the name from Organizer to Wizard, why would they > bother drastically changing the model prefix from IQ- to OZ-? Well, who ever heard of the "Wizard of IQ"? - don > Evan > From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Mon May 10 18:07:22 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 10, 2004 09:27:05 AM Message-ID: <200405102307.i4AN7MwC014295@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these >systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it >better and faster for free. Besides, how much RAM does your TT030 >have? > > Zane > The TT is expandable to 10Mb of ST RAM plus 16Mb of FastRAM. Likewise, there was a licensed version of Unix V developed for it. From KParker at workcover.com Mon May 10 18:29:46 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: How do you subscribe to Computer Collector +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2004 7:56 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Computer Estate Hi there, I'm not sure if he does estate sales, but I strongly suggest you contact Sellam Ismail, who owns a company in Silicon Valley called VintageTech. You may have seen his name on this list as well as "VCF" or "Vintage Computer Festival." Anyway, Sellam's pretty much the biggest collector in the known galaxy, and his company, VintageTech, lets him do this hobby for a living. You can reach Sellam at vcf@vintage.org. Why you should trust my opinion: I'm the founder/editor of Computer Collector, which is an online news magazine (with about 500 subscribers each week) serving the hobby. Good luck, -- Evan Koblentz (PS -- I personally collect handhelds and PDAs. If there are any in the collection, I'd like to look through the list.) --- Bogilady@aol.com wrote: > Is there a company or private party in the Pacific Northwest that specializes > > in liquidating computer estates? They date from the late 1970s to the mid > 1990s in various conditions. > > I really don't want to recycle them at scrap price if someone out there can > use them. > I figured ebay is a good place for anything unopened, but all the rest is > simply overwhelming. > > Help, suggestions, ideas and warnings are welcomed. > Cathy ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From tandem at comcast.net Mon May 10 19:13:21 2004 From: tandem at comcast.net (tandem) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:26 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale Message-ID: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. Is there a good place to list them? tm From usenet25 at mail.keck.cx Mon May 10 23:11:21 2004 From: usenet25 at mail.keck.cx (Cornelius Keck) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Need Help: NEC PowerMate Portable SX Message-ID: Cheers! I just came across this old posting at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010530.html I have one of these, and I've started to play with it; while searching the net for the setup utility (ftp.necsam.com has these), I found some info regarding the switches at http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/M-O/31485.htm Hope this helps! Regards, Cornelius -- Cornelius Keck ------------------------ usenet25@keck.us From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 11 00:25:14 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale References: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <40A063BA.2030209@jetnet.ab.ca> tandem wrote: > I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. > > Is there a good place to list them? > > tm Here is a good place to list them. So is The Vintage Computer Marketplace http://marketplace.vintage.org/ Also the newsgroup alt.sys.pdp8 is the most interested group. :) From marvin at rain.org Tue May 11 00:33:28 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable Message-ID: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. Thanks! http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg From medavidson at mac.com Tue May 11 00:37:25 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale In-Reply-To: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> References: <001101c436ec$c52f2700$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4863C2DC-A30D-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 10, 2004, at 5:13 PM, tandem wrote: > I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. > > Is there a good place to list them? > > tm > > No matter where you post information (either here, the Vintage Computer Marketplace, or alt.sys.pdp8), please let the list know... that way, those of us that are interested in them know where to go look! :) Mark From ohh at drizzle.com Tue May 11 01:58:41 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Forgive me if I snip responses wildly; most of this was Vince: > > Is there anyone in the area sufficiently dedicated to volunteer sorting > > and inventorying services? [...] > > I am in the PDX area, and could probably help with a garage or a storage > unit or two. If we are talking warehouses, it would need to be more than > just me :-). > > Also, while my time is probably less encumbered than most, my expertise is > somewhat narrow. If it is later than about the mid-80s, others will > probably know more about it. I've e-mailed her a similar offer of help if she's here in Seattle. If you consider your expertise narrow, mine is still more so; but if nothing else I can always refer truly interesting - or puzzling - items to the list for help. Who knows? Maybe it would help someone find something they've been hunting for. :) -O.- From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon May 10 14:23:19 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com> <002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040510212319.2f5992d7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:21:17 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > My impression is that in order of performance it goes MFM -> DSSI > -> SDI I would say DSSI, SDI, SMD and (depending on controller and drive) EDSI are equal in performance. > and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, No. QBus VAXen are low end machines. > leading to the 3520 and '40. The MV3500 on one side and the VS35[24]0 on the other side are completely different machines. The MV3500 is single CPU and all QBus where the VS35[24]0 has 2 or 4 CPUs, a special MBus (?) and some sort of QBus that AFAIK was only usable for a TQK70. > I would actually be surprised if DEC ever shipped a vS3500 with MFM > drives. My MV3500 came with MFM disks. (But was later extended with SMD and DSSI by the previous owner.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue May 11 03:59:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 install media... In-Reply-To: References: <1083876059.14680.33.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084203443.25978.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <1084207745.25978.82.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084265945.27383.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 19:28, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I truthfully can't see a good reason to install Unix on one of these > >> systems these days. You should be able to get a PC that will do it > >> better and faster for free. > > > >It's just nice as a museum exhibit though, if we're able to show it > >running both a windowing environment and a real Unix with networking > >too. > > But if you want to use the system as a museum exhibit, wouldn't it be > best to show it running it's original OS? I can see loading Unix if > the OS wasn't available, but for the TT030 it is. Oh, absolutely. And when just left running on display for people to play around with it would be. Many of the public we get coming round have heard of Unix but associate it with big powerful machines locked away in a server room somewhere - it'd be nice to be able to also show it running on a small plastic-cased desktop machine :-) cheers Jules From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Tue May 11 05:53:39 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable In-Reply-To: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> References: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> Message-ID: <40A0B0B3.9090401@vzavenue.net> Marvin Johnston wrote: >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. >Thanks! > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg > > > It's the dongle cable for an Apple PC compatibility card for the 6100 series of machine. From menadeau at comcast.net Tue May 11 06:05:21 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Sharp PDA question References: <20040511023418.45031.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c43747$db0ca060$0b01a8c0@Mike> Japanese electronics manufacturers often used letter designations in the model names to indicate the geographic market in which their products were sold. However, your thought about the name change is also quite possible. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "evan" To: Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:34 PM Subject: Sharp PDA question > Here's a strange one... what is the difference (other than the names) between > the Sharp IQ-7000 and the Sharp OZ-7000? > > I'm sitting here holding both in my hand. The IQ version has a label calling > it the "Electronic Organizer" while the OZ version has a label calling it the > more popular "Wizard." Otherwise they are identical twins (including the > instruction manuals.) > > Unfortunately neither has batteries right now, so I can't boot them to check > for OS versions, etc. > > Even if Sharp merely changed the name from Organizer to Wizard, why would they > bother drastically changing the model prefix from IQ- to OZ-? > > Evan > From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 11 06:28:53 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: PDP-11 RESCUE needed in northern California (Castro Valley) In-Reply-To: <20040509114525.J9918@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > him office/storage space (contractually obligated, but amount not > specified), but reneged. He had once planned to do something with > the machines, but got overwhelmed with other problems, including > rapidly decreasing storage space. Yes, he stored them there with the "OK, I'll move these later this week" thought, then got other things to do, then it became winter, and after that, it no longer mattered, so he forgot, sorta. > BTW, although I was the one who passed on the offer to the list, > it was the OTHER Fred who participated in the rescue. Me! Me! Me :) --f From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue May 11 07:19:49 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Pertec Interface Message-ID: <00f001c43752$5086bd30$6a00a8c0@athlon> Is there a definitive document anywhere on the net on this? Or anywhere else? This http://www.dbit.com/pub/pdp11/info/pertec.txt is good, but is there a formal definition document ? I have the impression from the preamble to the above text that the answer is negative. Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ From spectre at floodgap.com Tue May 11 08:20:42 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Toshiba IHC-8000 (Pasopia Mini) Message-ID: <200405111320.GAA16030@floodgap.com> Anyone out there know (or might be persuaded to part with >:-) any source on the Toshiba IHC-8000 (aka Pasopia Mini)? This was a small "pocket computer" circa 1983 with 4K of RAM and a 24x1 character LCD. Let me know if anyone remembers this unit, or better still, has one (working or not). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn ---------- From cb at mythtech.net Tue May 11 08:49:20 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable Message-ID: >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. >Thanks! > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg It goes to the DOS Compatibility card for either a Quadra 610 or a PowerMac 6100 (both used the same cable). There is also a version for the later PC Compatibility card that worked in a number of PCI PowerMacs. Slightly different cable was used for them. The visual difference being the later one lacks the Joystick connector on the cable (the PC Compatibility card had the joystick port on the card). I do not believe the two styles of cable are interchangeable. -chris From allain at panix.com Tue May 11 10:54:00 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 References: <003e01c435aa$314a6c90$0500a8c0@floyd><200405091101.47994.pat@computer-refuge.org><007d01c435fc$d2b00c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><409EE0FB.7070105@mdrconsult.com><002001c436b3$34da8ac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20040510212319.2f5992d7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <009f01c43770$2dae9ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, > No. QBus VAXen are low end machines. When the 3500 came out, 1987, I believe that it was the faster than all other deskside microVAXes up to that point. True? John A. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 11 11:37:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Manual for DEC DF242-CA ? Message-ID: Hiyas, Does anyone have a manual for the DEC DFD242-CA (Scholar Plus) modem, part number EK-DF2XD-UG ? Thankee, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Tue May 11 12:31:21 2004 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen References: <200405072247.i47Mlfhc031273@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000401c4377e$c86b78f0$6c01000a@kevenwork> Yes, Sellam provided me a copy of the disk. I can provide one for you, but I don't have my apple accessable at the moment. If you can bear a few days. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Ryan" To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 16:30 Subject: Apple II - LPS II Gibson Light Pen > Bought one of Ebay recently, but it comes without software. Was wondering if > anybody might be able to provide it to me in some form? > > Thanks, > Christopher Ryan > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 13:35:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Wahoo! Another HP 1000! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511143507.009588e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I got a call this morning from one of my favorite sources. I went out there and found a HP 1000 F series and a Floating Point unit (along with many lesser goodies). :-) Joe From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Tue May 11 11:27:18 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: OT: Tube manufacturing in China Message-ID: <200405111642.i4BGgWhc060238@huey.classiccmp.org> Interesting pictures from a tube manufacturing plant in China. http://www.supertnt.com/default/news3.asp -Neil From bmachacek at pcisys.net Tue May 11 14:15:56 2004 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Altos 686 Message-ID: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon> I just noticed I have an Altos 686 (without a cover) PC in my stack of 'old computer stuff'. It's s model 25A with one 5 1/4 inch floppy drive and a Seagate ST225 hard drive. Is this one of Altos computers that people are interested in or something that needs to be scrapped? Thanks for any help you can give me. Bill Machacek From arcarlini at iee.org Tue May 11 14:21:44 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Restoring a VAXstation 3500 In-Reply-To: <009f01c43770$2dae9ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00c201c4378d$32161180$5b01a8c0@athlon> > >> and that the vS3500 was considered a performance machine, > > No. QBus VAXen are low end machines. > > When the 3500 came out, 1987, I believe that it was the > faster than all other deskside microVAXes up to that point. True? True. But you could have picked up a Sun workstation for less money that ran rings around it. The fact that it was faster than everything except the large VAXen is not really the point. Even DEC considered Qbus machines to be the low-end ... it's just all many of us could afford :-) Not until the Vaxstation 3100 M30/M40 came out a year or two later did DEC begin to address the workstation market. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue May 11 14:21:37 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Apple Cable In-Reply-To: <40A065A8.FB47CB2A@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040511121749.00a59420@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:33 PM 5/10/04 -0700, Marvin Johnston wrote: >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. >Thanks! > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg Plugs into one of the DOS or PC cards and passes through/switches the normal Mac Video card output. There were maybe two or three different cables depending on which PC card you use. From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 14:25:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller Message-ID: A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). Would there be any other interest in purchasing this controller? Board fab and parts in quantity 5 has the price at about $100 right now (unassembled). If there's enough interest then I'll manufacture a large batch to bring the price down and sell off kits to recoup the design and manufacturing costs for myself. E-mail me if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mtkleinm at uci.edu Tue May 11 14:55:15 2004 From: mtkleinm at uci.edu (Michael Kleinman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <002f01c43791$e26964c0$4843c880@kleinman> If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. Mike Kleinman From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue May 11 14:41:46 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA477A@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Sellam: I certainly would be interested. And, if the interface is "easy" enough I can integrate software support into the Altair32 Emulator. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:25 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List Subject: Front panel controller A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). Would there be any other interest in purchasing this controller? Board fab and parts in quantity 5 has the price at about $100 right now (unassembled). If there's enough interest then I'll manufacture a large batch to bring the price down and sell off kits to recoup the design and manufacturing costs for myself. E-mail me if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 16:30:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <200405112130.OAA02558@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Michael Kleinman" > >If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. > > > >Mike Kleinman > > Hi Maybe these are part of some class project. You send out these strange request to see what kind of response you get. There are just too many of these to be real. Many, resently, seem to be using the same general format. Dwight From tony.eros at machm.org Tue May 11 16:34:17 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405112133.RAA56699@smtp.9netave.com> Sounds interesting -- count me in! -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:25 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List Subject: Front panel controller A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). Would there be any other interest in purchasing this controller? Board fab and parts in quantity 5 has the price at about $100 right now (unassembled). If there's enough interest then I'll manufacture a large batch to bring the price down and sell off kits to recoup the design and manufacturing costs for myself. E-mail me if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 16:41:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any thoughts on this? Joe From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue May 11 16:48:39 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: > Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs > on them. The Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing > them. But I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to take > the related parts off? Can the board be used as is? This would save a lot of work to get a working Z8000 syatem. Any pictures? Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 16:47:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D In-Reply-To: <200405112130.OAA02558@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > >From: "Michael Kleinman" > > > >If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. > > > > > > > >Mike Kleinman > > > > > > Hi > Maybe these are part of some class project. You send out > these strange request to see what kind of response you get. > There are just too many of these to be real. Many, resently, > seem to be using the same general format. Dwight, As was explained before, the off-list messages that are sent to the list are held up until someone moderates them and either deletes or approves them. That's why they come in spurts. Also, people are responding to old messages that are archived and come up in Google searches. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 16:54:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511175407.008bec90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:48 PM 5/11/04 +0100, you wrote: > >> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs >> on them. The Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing >> them. But I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to take >> the related parts off? > >Can the board be used as is? Probably. It has a bunch of memory on it and a couple of EPROMs and a bunch of other ICs including two large ICs marked SC73004CV. I couldn't find anything about them. The board is marked "dsc MP-10/3". I searched the net but didn't find anything about it. No pictures but I guess I could take one. I need to photograph some stuff anyway. Joe This would save a lot of work to >get a working Z8000 syatem. Any pictures? > >Cheers, > Lee. > > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ > From vrs at msn.com Tue May 11 17:25:37 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a > PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and > 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional > blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects > to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated > hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem > continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the > board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based > emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen is doing? Vince From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 11 17:21:38 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question References: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe R. wrote: > Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The > Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if > it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered > on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are > Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any > thoughts on this? > > Joe > > . > I like my computers whole. :) Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. Ben. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 17:26:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Picture RE: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511182643.0086dd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:48 PM 5/11/04 +0100, you wrote: > This would save a lot of work to >get a working Z8000 syatem. Any pictures? This is about 1/2 the actual of the card Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 17:32:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: New Finds: MORE Multibus cards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511183232.0087e7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> On todays scrounging mission I turned up three more Multibus cards that I hadn't seen before. (1) An Intel iSBC 88/25 with a 8088 CPU . (2) What looks like a ROM/PROM card made by Amtelco . It used have a battery in the lower RH corner. You can see where it leaked and ate up some of the contacts on the P2 connector. (3) This one was made by Proconics and it says that it's an I/O card . Joe From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 17:33:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, vrs wrote: > > A friend and I have designed a front panel controller that connects to a > > PC port and allows you to have up to 128 outputs (LEDs, lamps, etc.) and > > 64 inputs (switches, etc.) It is intended for use in functional > > blinkenlights replicas (like the PDP-1 replcia I'm building). It connects > > to a PC parallel port and is driven through software. It can be updated > > hundreds of times a second, which for all intents and purposes will seem > > continuous. We're going to write simple software drivers to control the > > board. It's simple enough to be integrated into just about any PC-based > > emulator and is designed to be scalable (up or down). > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen > is doing? I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference is that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done and going to fab in another week or so. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 17:44:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <200405112244.PAA02592@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Tue, 11 May 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> >> >From: "Michael Kleinman" >> > >> >If you still have the Gould 2800, I would be interested in buying it. >> > >> > >> > >> >Mike Kleinman >> > >> > >> >> Hi >> Maybe these are part of some class project. You send out >> these strange request to see what kind of response you get. >> There are just too many of these to be real. Many, resently, >> seem to be using the same general format. > >Dwight, > >As was explained before, the off-list messages that are sent to the list >are held up until someone moderates them and either deletes or approves >them. That's why they come in spurts. Also, people are responding to old >messages that are archived and come up in Google searches. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > Hi Sellam This has all been discussed before. It just makes me wonder because the messages are so alike. I understand the clustering but not why the clusters should have so much similarity. Dwight From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue May 11 17:57:06 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I like my computers whole. :) > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. > Ben. > I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) g. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 11 17:54:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040511225448.GB24029@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 04:21:38PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. Commodore had a Z8000 UNIX machine, didn't they? I can't recall if it was ever fully released, or if it was only seen around the halls of Westchester... I would look it up at the "Secret Weapons of Commodore" site, but at the moment, we are sharing a 38Kbps link for everyone on station, and it's virtually impossible to surf the web. You don't see any Commodore logos on there do you? :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-May-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.7 F (-56.5 C) Windchill -119.9 F (-84.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.4 kts Grid 038 Barometer 684.2 mb (10468. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 17:59:08 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405112259.PAA02618@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Joe R. wrote: >> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The >> Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if >> it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered >> on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are >> Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any >> thoughts on this? >> >> Joe >> >> . >> > >I like my computers whole. :) >Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >Ben. > > > Hi Ben I think Olivetti was the only one I know of. The M20 ( I have one of these working ) was the most common. The M20 was also labled as L1 for some markets. I think there was a M30 and M40 that also had the Z8000 as well( not to be confused with the M24 that most have seen ). There were a number of custom applications and even some Multibus boards made with Z8000's but in the desk top like world, I think the M20 was it. I've got both PCOS and CPM8000 running on my M20. The board, Joe has, has the MMU so it would be a candidate for getting CPM8000 up on. I'd be a lot of work to trace out how things were interconnected. Not an easy project without some board schematics. I could assist anyone wanting to get CPM8000 running on a Z8000 system but before starting to build one, contact me and I can describe some of the design requirements. Dwight From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue May 11 18:45:29 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C1F@email1.parl.net> I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and the Ithica DPS-8000 (I saw a Byte advert for it, not sure how well it sold). And there were as Dwight stated numerous commercial Z8000 S-100, multibus, STD bus processor cards (once again advertised in Byte). Lastly the Commodore C900, which only made it to evaluation machine stage. I believe that a few 100 were ever made, I just missed one on ebay a few months ago. I asked the purchaser a couple of times (through ebay) for his impressions and any information on it, but I got no reply. David From aek at spies.com Tue May 11 18:50:22 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405112350.i4BNoMpS026882@spies.com> I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and the Ithica DPS-8000 == Central Data in Champaign/Ubana made a Multibus Z8K board that they sold with their OS and Xenix. I'll get the docs up on bitsavers for it eventually. I also have some stuff for the Zilog S8000 From medavidson at mac.com Tue May 11 18:56:59 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405112350.i4BNoMpS026882@spies.com> References: <200405112350.i4BNoMpS026882@spies.com> Message-ID: Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... Mark On May 11, 2004, at 4:50 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the > Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and > the > Ithica DPS-8000 > > == > > Central Data in Champaign/Ubana made a Multibus Z8K board that they > sold > with their OS and Xenix. > > I'll get the docs up on bitsavers for it eventually. I also have some > stuff > for the Zilog S8000 From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 11 18:04:09 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040511230409.GC24029@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 03:33:52PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen > > is doing? > > I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference is > that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done and going > to fab in another week or so. What technology is yours based on? Henk's was originally a 6802, but it looks like it's shifted to a 6809 based on recent discussions. I only ask because, like many here, I might end up hacking these sorts of things if it's not too much work. Also... your replica PDP-1 sounds intriguing... what are you doing about switch handles? Are you going to use incandescent lights or filtered LEDs? How are you implementing the DECscope? (Obviously it wouldn't be much of an emulator if it didn't play SPACEWAR :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-May-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.8 F (-56.6 C) Windchill -117.4 F (-83 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.8 kts Grid 037 Barometer 684.3 mb (10464. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From medavidson at mac.com Tue May 11 19:01:31 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C1F@email1.parl.net> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C1F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <8668B403-A3A7-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 11, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > I have seen documentation of three commercial Z8000 systems; the > Olivetti M20, the Zilog system 8000 (I think that was its name), and > the > Ithica DPS-8000 (I saw a Byte advert for it, not sure how well it > sold). > And there were as Dwight stated numerous commercial Z8000 S-100, > multibus, STD bus processor cards (once again advertised in Byte). > Lastly the Commodore C900, which only made it to evaluation machine > stage. I believe that a few 100 were ever made, I just missed one on > ebay a few months ago. I asked the purchaser a couple of times (through > ebay) for his impressions and any information on it, but I got no > reply. > I think I posted about this to the list already, but yes, Zilog had a system. It was indeed called the Zilog System 8000 and ran a version of System III Unix called ZEUS (Zilog Enhanced Unix System). I worked with a doctor years ago to move some COBOL code (written using RM/COBOL) from an MP/M system to a Zilog. I had to drive to the Zilog rep office to do the work. I remember it being a cool system, but way too much for me to consider at the time. I'd love to find one, though... I love old Unix boxes. Mark From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue May 11 19:44:50 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: WTB: PROMs 82S135, 6039, 74S741, etc. Message-ID: <009f01c437ba$55590a80$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> I'm trying to find a couple of 256x8 PROMs (unprogrammed of course) for replacements. The original part is an 82S135 (Phillips), but equivalents are apparently: NEC uPB421; AMD/MMI 6309, 63S09, 6309-1, 63S281; Texas Instruments 18S22 or 28L22. If anyone knows of a source for these, or has a couple you are willing to part with, please contact me off list. So far I've found a lot of sites advertising, but only one has actually had the parts and I'm hoping to do better than nearly $16 each. --Patrick From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 19:54:59 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: WTB: PROMs 82S135, 6039, 74S741, etc. Message-ID: <200405120054.RAA02700@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Patrick You might go with a larger 1Kx8 PROMs. I think these are more easily found. You can waste the rest or add jumpers to select options. It seems like I was able to get some of these from Jameco or Anchor. Just a though Dwight >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >I'm trying to find a couple of 256x8 PROMs (unprogrammed of course) for >replacements. The original part is an 82S135 (Phillips), but equivalents >are apparently: NEC uPB421; AMD/MMI 6309, 63S09, 6309-1, 63S281; Texas >Instruments 18S22 or 28L22. If anyone knows of a source for these, or has a >couple you are willing to part with, please contact me off list. So far >I've found a lot of sites advertising, but only one has actually had the >parts and I'm hoping to do better than nearly $16 each. --Patrick > > > From spectre at floodgap.com Tue May 11 20:11:14 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: from Gene Buckle at "May 11, 4 03:57:06 pm" Message-ID: <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> > > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other > > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. > > I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. > You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) As others have said, the 900. This used the Z8001, and was released in very small numbers. Recently, however, I did acquire the boot disks to one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image them at least. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/900.html -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Once, adv.: Enough. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" ------------ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 20:10:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511211038.008c1a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:21 PM 5/11/04 -0600, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: >> Today I found a big stack of computer cards with Z8000 CPUs on them. The >> Z8000s are socketed and I planned on grabbing them. But I'm wondering if >> it's worth the trouble to take the related parts off? They're all soldered >> on so they'd take more work. Besides the Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are >> Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Any >> thoughts on this? >> >> Joe >> >> . >> > >I like my computers whole. :) So do I but the boards are all I found. I think all the boards are all the same so unless eveything is one the one card there isn't even be a complete set of cards. The cards are marked "dsc MP-10/3" and "Made in USA". I couldn't find anything with that model number but didn't research "dsc". Joe >Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >Ben. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 20:18:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:27 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511211839.008c1d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:11 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Cameron wrote: >> > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >> > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >> >> I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. >> You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) > >As others have said, the 900. This used the Z8001, and was released in >very small numbers. Recently, however, I did acquire the boot disks to >one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no >unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image >them at least. > >http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/900.html Cameron, Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Perhaps I should add that the card has two MMUs. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 11 20:23:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <20040511225448.GB24029@bos7.spole.gov> References: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040511212326.00793a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:54 PM 5/11/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 04:21:38PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: >> Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >> CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. > >Commodore had a Z8000 UNIX machine, didn't they? I can't recall if it >was ever fully released, or if it was only seen around the halls of >Westchester... > >I would look it up at the "Secret Weapons of Commodore" site, but at the >moment, we are sharing a 38Kbps link for everyone on station, and it's >virtually impossible to surf the web. > >You don't see any Commodore logos on there do you? :-) No just a stylized "dsc". I'll try and get a photo of it tomorrow and post it. Maybe somebody will recognize it. There are no other names on it anywhere including the EPROM labels, just some more numbers. I looked at Claus Sch?nleber's 900 Page and in one photo you can see part of the main circuit board. It doesn't look anything like the board that I have. Joe > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-May-2004 22:50 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.7 F (-56.5 C) Windchill -119.9 F (-84.40 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 11.4 kts Grid 038 Barometer 684.2 mb (10468. ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 20:25:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Important warning: avoid erikb@cyberspace.org Message-ID: I just wanted to pass along a tip to everyone in the hobby. Beware of this guy who goes around as "Erik B." (erikb@cyberspace.org) from the Netherlands (at least that's where he says he's from). I've had a couple very obnoxious experiences with him and in my opinion he's not to be trusted. I don't know if he uses another e-mail address (my guess is that he does) but I would be wary of anyone who goes by the name "Erik B." and won't disclose his last name nor any other information necessary for a useful transaction. He's a lurker on the CC list and who knows where else. This is only the second time I've felt it important enough to do this. I don't like to, but in some cases I think it's necessary. Just a friendly warning... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue May 11 20:32:39 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405120132.SAA02747@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe I might have some of them. I'll not be able to check until this weekend. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > >At 06:11 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Cameron wrote: >>> > Who did make Z8000 computers? The Z8000 like several other >>> > CPU's that never made it big and vanished out of sight. >>> >>> I think Commodore made a Unix machine at one point that used the Z8000. >>> You'd have to ask Cameron for sure though. :) >> >>As others have said, the 900. This used the Z8001, and was released in >>very small numbers. Recently, however, I did acquire the boot disks to >>one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no >>unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image >>them at least. >> >>http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/900.html > > Cameron, > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > > Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, >Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. > > Perhaps I should add that the card has two MMUs. > > Joe > From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue May 11 20:56:56 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: pictures of Hyperion 'ex' unit Message-ID: <000f01c437c4$799f0980$6402a8c0@home> Finally got around to investigating the Hyperion Ex unit. I've posted several shots at these urls : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopen.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionex.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopenwide.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexserial.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionfront.jpg The unit contains a 9600 modem, IBM serial port for a logitech mouse and a 128k memory card as well as a MiniScribe hard drive. Don't know the capacity yet, it's in the records somewhere. There are two of these, one has some trace problems and I haven't tried to run either of them. Same color as the Hyperions, and are from 1984 while the Hyperions are earlier, October '82 or so. Thought you folks might be interested. bm From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 11 20:59:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Wahoo! Another HP 1000! References: <3.0.6.32.20040511143507.009588e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004901c437c4$b872de70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote... > I got a call this morning from one of my favorite sources. I went out > there and found a HP 1000 F series and a Floating Point unit (along with > many lesser goodies). :-) Cool Joe, sounds like you've got quite the stash of 1K's. How many are running, and what OS or Environment do you run most often on yours? Jay From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue May 11 21:13:26 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622464@email1.parl.net> I did acquire the boot disks to one from a former owner on the other side of the pond; alas, I have no unit to boot them on, but I'm still working on that. ^^ I might image them at least. I can feel an emulation coming on. However not from me at the moment, damn that "not having all the time in the world" thing. David From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue May 11 21:21:06 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C20@email1.parl.net> Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? Z0800110PCS CPU, the others are Z08030AB1 Z-SCC, Z0803606PSC Z-CIO, Z0801010PSC Z-MMU and Z0858110PSC. Zilog still CMOS versions of the Z-SCC and so there is doco on their site for that chip. Jurjen Kranenborg (www.kranenborg.org/z8000) says he has tech namuals for Z-MMU, Z-SCC, and Z-CIO, and a product spec for the Z8581 clock generator chip. I also have hard copy (no scanner thought) of the MMU so I could answer questions. I have collected largeish PDFs from zilog's site of the Z-SCC and Z-CIO chips, and a big PDF of the Z8000 tech manual (which is also at Jurjen's web site). David From vrs at msn.com Tue May 11 21:20:56 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project Henk Gooijen > > is doing? > > I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference is > that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done and going > to fab in another week or so. Well, I have been doing the layout work for Henk's board. and it is ready for a test fab, except that we are doing a conversion from the 6802 to the 6809, after some feedback from the potential users. I think there are roughly 20 each of the cpu core and the I/O boards spoken for, so far. The design is basically a 680x cpu core driving at least one I/O board, which interfaces to the switches and lights. Each I/O board drives up to 64 outputs and can take up to 64 inputs. Fanout issues currently limit the system to 6 I/O boards, IIRC. Current plan is to do one-off runs of the cpu and I/O in Europe, make sure there are no problems, then do larger runs here in the USA. I expect Henk will be getting to his e-mail in a few hours, to speak for himself :-). Vince From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue May 11 21:30:30 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405112130.30307.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 11 May 2004 21:20, vrs wrote: > > > How does this one compare to the "blinkenlight console" project > > > Henk > > Gooijen > > > > is doing? > > > > I don't know. I haven't looked at Henk's. But the main difference > > is that I started this earlier (I believe) and the design is done > > and going to fab in another week or so. > > Well, I have been doing the layout work for Henk's board. and it is > ready for a test fab, except that we are doing a conversion from the > 6802 to the 6809, after some feedback from the potential users. What kind of host-side interface does it have? I've been thinking about something like this, but wouldn't bother with it unless it had an RS-232 interface. (Why limit myself to a PC?) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From marvin at rain.org Tue May 11 10:53:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple Cable References: Message-ID: <40A0F6F2.AE65C20B@rain.org> Thanks to Chris and james for their responses; at least I know what this is now! Since I have no use for these cables, anyone need them? I'll go ahead and stick them up on VCM for $1.00 each plus shipping. Thanks again!!! chris wrote: > > >Anyone know what this cable is used for? It has two 15 pin female Apple > >monitor connectors, one 15 pin male connector, and one 26 pin connector. > >Thanks! > > > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/applecbl.jpg > > It goes to the DOS Compatibility card for either a Quadra 610 or a > PowerMac 6100 (both used the same cable). > > There is also a version for the later PC Compatibility card that worked > in a number of PCI PowerMacs. Slightly different cable was used for them. > The visual difference being the later one lacks the Joystick connector on > the cable (the PC Compatibility card had the joystick port on the card). > I do not believe the two styles of cable are interchangeable. > > -chris > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 11 21:43:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of > some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved > it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS > (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). > > I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue May 11 22:10:46 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: WTB: PROMs 82S135, 6039, 74S741, etc. References: <200405120054.RAA02700@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000601c437ce$b8826340$210fa8c0@Sol> > Hi Patrick > You might go with a larger 1Kx8 PROMs. I think these > are more easily found. You can waste the rest or add > jumpers to select options. It seems like I was able to > get some of these from Jameco or Anchor. > Just a though > Dwight Dwight, that's absolutely a solution. I was hoping to find the "smaller" part to provide the most authentic match for the appearance of the board, but they are scarce. The original purpose that lit this endeavor was replacement PROMs for a North Star MDS-AD3. The smaller 256x4 PROMs that it uses for address decode were easily located at Jameco, but the larger PROM for the E800h boot routine is proving elusive. Thanks! --Patrick From donm at cts.com Tue May 11 23:03:19 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622464@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > I did acquire the boot disks to one from a former owner on the > other side of the pond; alas, I have no unit to boot them on, but I'm > still working on that. ^^ I might image them at least. How about forwarding disk images to me to add to the archive. TeleDisk preferred. - don > I can feel an emulation coming on. However not from me at the moment, > damn that "not having all the time in the world" thing. > > David > > From cb at mythtech.net Tue May 11 23:22:54 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple Cable Message-ID: >Since I have no use for these cables, anyone need them? I'll go ahead >and stick them up on VCM for $1.00 each plus shipping. Thanks again!!! Try listing them on the Low End Mac swap list. These cables are essential to being able to use the DOS card. Without the cable, the card is useless. I know there are people out there that need a cable to get their card working. (I don't. I have 3 cards, and 3 cables, plus 4 and 4 of the later version) -chris From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 01:42:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Interesting robot Message-ID: Has anyone else seen this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3814127711&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT A very interesting home-brew mechanical robot from the 1960s. Less than 9 hours left as of this writing. Perhaps someone local can purchase and preserve it? I'm trying to find a museum somewhere that can take it. Perhaps Ed Sharpe can find a way to acquire it? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 12 01:50:46 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Important warning: avoid erikb@cyberspace.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I just wanted to pass along a tip to everyone in the hobby. Beware of > this guy who goes around as "Erik B." (erikb@cyberspace.org) from the > Netherlands (at least that's where he says he's from). I've had a couple > very obnoxious experiences with him and in my opinion he's not to be > trusted. I don't know if he uses another e-mail address (my guess is > that he does) but I would be wary of anyone who goes by the name "Erik B." > and won't disclose his last name nor any other information necessary for a > useful transaction. His name is Erik Brens, and, yes, he is in The Netherlands. I can personally verify that he is on *my* "do not touch" list, for reasons I will not disclose in public. Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From GOOI at oce.nl Wed May 12 02:01:20 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Alright, I am awake. Several of you are heading to bed ... I will give a short description of my project, then you can decide for yourself which way you want to go. Warning! Sort of longish reply ahead! My design consist of 2 boards, one is called "Core", the other "I/O". Both boards are almost Eurocard size. Power supply: only +5 Volts. Features of the Core board. --------------------------- Chips: 6809, 6821, 6850, 6264, 27128 and 27256, in words: the CPU is the 6809 which is a 8/16 bit quite powerful CPU which has good high-level language support (think of C), and you can read more abt the 6809 in an other recent thread. The 27128 is 16k EPROM at memory C000-FFFF, of which half is filled with a debug monitor and software to control the I/O board. The 27256 is 32k -optional- EPROM at 4000- BFFF. The 6264 is 8k RAM at 2000-3FFF. The 6821 (2x8bit I/O) forms the buffered interface to the I/O board(s). Last, the 6850 is the ACIA, which makes the serial (9600 Bd) connection to *any* host computer. On board level conversion makes it a true RS-232 port. The ACIA and the PIA are mapped in $0080-$00FF, that is legacy from the design around the 6802 (RealConsole Mk I). The serial port can be connected to a terminal (e.g. VT220) and you use the monitor to debug your own (assembler) programs. Or you connect the serial port to a PC, SUN workstation or whatever and control the "thing" via the serial port. My application for it is to control the I/O that drives LEDs and read switches from a home-brew console. I have made some patches in SIMH, and I can *boot* RT11 via my console as if were the real thing. See www.pdp-11.nl , click in the left menu on "homebrew PDP-11". On the opening page click in the top section on "SIMH software", "new design" and "action!" for more ... Features of the I/O board. -------------------------- The I/O board has 3 LS138 (1 to 8 decode chips) and octal latches (373 and 374). One I/O board can have up to *eight* 8-bit output ports and *eight* 8-bit input ports, thus there is on one I/O board 64 outputs and 64 input available, enough to drive a full PDP-11/70 console. The I/O board is connected to the Core board with a simple 20-wire flat cable. If what you want to control is bigger, or perhaps totally different, you can cascade (theoretically) up to 8 I/O boards by just running that flatcable from I/O board to I/O board. A single jumper on the I/O board settles the addressing issues. The practical limit of I/O boards is six (due to fan-out load issues), but if you insist and go outside specifications I guess you could get away with 7 I/O boards. Applications for the Core and I/O board. - First, the mentioned console, but *NOT* limited to PDP-xx/xx consoles! Think of the IBM S3; not a small one, but it can be connected. The console can be home made, but if you have a *real* console laying around, that can be connected too! (I'd prefer a real console to go with a real machine tough ...) - Why limit to "blinkenlights" consoles? You can just as easy connect it to the more modern console like the 11/34 or 11/60 ! The control of the 7-segment displays is of course in software not with hex to 7 segment decoder chips! - Use some I/O to make a parallel I/O port (if you need it). I am not sure if the speed will be sufficient to connect an IDE drive (in PIO mode 1), but that is something I intend to try ... - Whatever project to wanted to do! There is enough I/O capability ... The monitor software is described on the site mentioned. If you know the Motorola Mikbug monitor, this will look familiar. The RealConsole software controls the I/O ports. The input ports are read periodically in an interrupt service routine. The *debounced* data from the switches is stored in memory locations, so your application can read the switches from those memory locations. Several "hooks" (in fact small subroutines) allow you to control any bit of any output port. There are a few 'special' routines to handle the issues involved with momentary push-buttons, toggles. A depressed toggle and then released would mean that in memory that specific bit would be set for a brief moment and then be reset. To solve that issue, you can specify via a hook on which input port(*s*), which bit(*s*) are connected to toggles. Those bits are processed differently. Once set (by pressing the toggle) that bit remains set until you command (an other hook) to return to zero. So, you can process each toggle when you want, and when that is actually done you reset the "toggle". Some "higher" level commands are e.g. "Axxxxx" where the "x" is a hex number. This command will put xxxxx on the Address LEDs. Likewise, there is a "Dxxxx" command. You figure out what it does :-) Project status -------------- The project was ready to go manufacture the lay-out PCB set prototype tpo build it and check if it does not contain errors. This week I am working on the "upgrade" from the 6802 to the 6809 CPU, because of its better availability. Performance improvement etc. are a nice side effect of this move. When the prototype is checked (within one month), the board sets are "mass produced" in the US. Silkscreened, solder mask, etc. - professional quality. To keep those costs low, it takes 5 weeks to get them made. (could be done in a few days, but don't ask what the compay charges!) You can order the board set (or more I/O Boards than Core boards) either bare, or together with the "difficult" chips, or as a complete kit that contains all components. I am not going to make much profit on it, but when more people join the bigger discount we can get on the parts! For those who rather not solder the boards, I am prepared to do that work and test them (for a fee though). I will write a "manual" that described the software, give a step-by-step DYI building the boards (with fotographs), connection diagrams, multiple I/O Board configuration plus the fan-out load calculations. >From my site you can download the software source code and the changes made to the current version of SIMH. Believe me, I am dedicated to this project! As Vince said, he did the PCB design and solved the routing issues. We try to buy the parts as cheap as possible, so those will probably be bought in the US and not where I Live - The Netherlands. We are working on how to ship it all. It is a little stupid to ship many parts from US to Holland, assemble the kits, anmd the send back some 70% of it all to the US again ... If you have any questions regarding this project, ask! I will try to give an answer as good as I can, as soon as I can. I will help thinking about your specific application. For example, one guy asked for the possibility to connect an 8-bit input port directly to an 8-bit output port and use the combination as a bi-directional 8-bit port. The final idea was building a setup to test M-boards! (BTW, the answer is yes with a minor patch!) kind regards, - Henk, PA8PDP gooi@oce.nl From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 12 02:15:31 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Gooijen H wrote: > As Vince said, he did the PCB design and solved the routing issues. > We try to buy the parts as cheap as possible, so those will probably > be bought in the US and not where I Live - The Netherlands. We are > working on how to ship it all. It is a little stupid to ship many > parts from US to Holland, assemble the kits, anmd the send back some > 70% of it all to the US again ... I can probably "traffic" some of the boards and/or parts from NL to the US (west coast), and vice versa, for those who want it. --fred From esharpe at uswest.net Wed May 12 03:25:11 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Interesting robot References: Message-ID: <000901c437fa$a4a7d270$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> yes it would be at home with the robots here... transportation would have to be worked out though! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: Interesting robot > > Has anyone else seen this? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3814127711&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT > > A very interesting home-brew mechanical robot from the 1960s. Less than 9 > hours left as of this writing. Perhaps someone local can purchase and > preserve it? > > I'm trying to find a museum somewhere that can take it. > > Perhaps Ed Sharpe can find a way to acquire it? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 12 06:44:27 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040511212326.00793a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040511174156.0083e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40A151F2.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040511212326.00793a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1084362267.28670.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-12 at 01:23, Joe R. wrote: > No just a stylized "dsc". I'll try and get a photo of it tomorrow and > post it. Maybe somebody will recognize it. There are no other names on it > anywhere including the EPROM labels, just some more numbers. Time to pull the EPROMs and see if there are any strings within giving a clue as to what it is? cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 07:23:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Wahoo! Another HP 1000! In-Reply-To: <004901c437c4$b872de70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511143507.009588e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512082313.00836100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:59 PM 5/11/04 -0500, you wrote: >Joe wrote... >> I got a call this morning from one of my favorite sources. I went out >> there and found a HP 1000 F series and a Floating Point unit (along with >> many lesser goodies). :-) > >Cool Joe, sounds like you've got quite the stash of 1K's. How many are >running, and what OS or Environment do you run most often on yours? > >Jay > I think I'm up to six of them now plus four, oops five, extender chassis. However I only have one or two working PSUs (haven't tested the new one yet). so far, no OS on them so I'm just toggling in things by hand. I'm still supposed to get the 2114 and 7900 disk drive but haven't completed that deal yet. I'm holding off till the guy finds the cables and manuals and he doesn't seem to be in a hurry. But I have a crap load of tape drives (hint, hint). Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 12 08:07:52 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: >>> Chips: 6809, 6821, 6850, 6264, 27128 and 27256. I was programming these parts as far back as 1979 [Ok I was using 2716/2732 eproms, but the 27128/27256 are not that much newer]. I am surprised that these parts are still in production.. My main question, however, is that since this is intended (I believe) for long term use, is this the best hardware to base a design on. What are the chances of getting spares for these components in 2014? Just my thoughts..... David. From vrs at msn.com Wed May 12 09:16:35 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > >>> Chips: 6809, 6821, 6850, 6264, 27128 and 27256. > > I was programming these parts as far back as 1979 [Ok I was using 2716/2732 > eproms, but the 27128/27256 are not that much newer]. > > I am surprised that these parts are still in production.. That was the main motivation for the move to the 6809, which has much broader availability than the 6802. > My main question, however, is that since this is intended (I believe) for > long term use, is this the best hardware to base a design on. What are the > chances of getting spares for these components in 2014? I believe that this is a problem with virtually *any* component you could choose. The newer stuff seems to generally have shorter lifespans. I believe this is an outcome of having more choices -- none of the "newer" chips (with perhaps some exceptions from Intel) has enough of a following to be readily available down the road. At least these old-time components have a following that has kept them around this long... I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the better choices? Vince From allain at panix.com Wed May 12 10:03:58 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Interesting robot References: Message-ID: <010301c43832$5ac1ff40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Looks like he was trying to copy the drive section on the famous robot "Shakey". I'm not sure of the dates. Looks like the kids 'bot came first. He really needed a friend with a computer to make it really be a robot though. John A. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed May 12 10:12:00 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted Message-ID: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. All this talk about frontpanel emulators... So I have this (mostly) working PDP-11/34, my one and only UniBus machine. It came with a RK07 drive. But the system was stored under bad conditions for years. There is rust and corrosion _everywhere_. The machine works so far but the drive is quite rotten. I have no other UniBus disk drive interfaces so I need either a new RK07 (unlikely) or a replacement for the entire conroler / drive combination or: What about a RK07 drive emulating hardware? A microcontroler with some TTLs to interface to the RK611 controler on one side and a compact FLASH card on the other. Maybe cache RAM in front of the FLASH to reduce write cycles to the FLASH. 32 MB is enough for a RK07 disk, even if the emulator stores raw data including all sector headers / trailers. Problem: Exact and detaild specs of the RK611 <=> RK0[67] interface. I found some hints in the "RK06/RK07 Disk Drive User's Manual" but not enough to build a new drive from scratch. Any pointers? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From michael at mfp.co.nz Tue May 11 18:12:16 2004 From: michael at mfp.co.nz (Michael Fincham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse In-Reply-To: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <38294.202.49.92.103.1084317136.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:35:48 -0700 > From: Marvin Johnston > Subject: Apple Mouse > To: ClassicCmp > > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? > I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. -Michael From laland at drillcon.no Wed May 12 08:51:37 2004 From: laland at drillcon.no (Jens Laland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512144953.00b2b680@pop3.online.no> Hi I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 datasheet (Ref.: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/021129.html). If you by any means got hold of it, would there be a possibility that you could share it with me? Best Regards, Jens Laland Bryne, Norway I have been curious all my life, about things: something to play with, investigate or know more about. However, a challenging process is often better than firm results which tend to leave you in the void between lesser storage space and the constant urge for something new. From ken.rauhala at nokia.com Wed May 12 10:32:52 2004 From: ken.rauhala at nokia.com (ken.rauhala@nokia.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) Message-ID: Hi, This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, printer, and VT100 terminal. Located in Merrimack NH. I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 From Bogilady at aol.com Wed May 12 10:37:54 2004 From: Bogilady at aol.com (Bogilady@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Sound like most of you do business with Sellam Ismail, Erik Klein or Bruce Lane. I will talk with the other family members this week and educate myself a bit. - - I am so glad I posted the message! Answers to your questions: Where in the Pacific NW? Dad's stuff is in a few locations in the Tri-Cities (Richland, Pasco, and Kennewick, WA). We are in the dry-desert side of the state. We are about 4 hours from either Seattle or Portland, 2.5hrs from Spokane, and about 6hrs from Boise. US395 & I82 intersect here. Do I have a list of items? How much is ?overwhelming?? There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ?mouse in a maze? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are look-in, not step-in rooms. The garage ? well it is a very careful adventure, and only a quarter of the way ventured. Furniture consists of workbenches and shelves mostly. He collected, but rarely parted with anything. Wish I could have hooked him up with you guys a year ago. (Hindsight 20/20) He was very proud of some of his finds. He would have enjoyed the treasure hunt. Thanks Again. Cathy From wm65805 at hotmail.com Wed May 12 11:14:25 2004 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (Bill malcolm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Heath HDOS disk and Source ? Message-ID: HI : I am looking for a bootable HDOS disk and Full source for same . Also wanted diagram for H-8 and rom listing for H-8 if possible I am looking to build emaulator for Mac for the H-8. Subject: Heath HDOS Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:33:25 -0500 HI : Legal --- The HDOS was released to Public Domain SEE The Computer Journal #43 Page 14-16 . I can send you a PDF if that article if you wish ? I am looking the source to the Hdos myself I think this information may in the archives on compuserv ? _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp From cb at mythtech.net Wed May 12 11:38:57 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse Message-ID: >> Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the >> rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? >> > >I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. Correct, the Plus was the last Mac with the D-9 connector. After that, they moved to ADB and the mini-din 8. However, I took the initial question as when did the D sub connector change for that style mouse from the boxy style found in the 128 to the more smooth curvy style found in the Mac Plus. I didn't respond because I don't know. -chris From marvin at rain.org Wed May 12 11:56:46 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse References: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> <38294.202.49.92.103.1084317136.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> Message-ID: <40A2574E.D0C82A93@rain.org> Michael Fincham wrote: > > > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the > > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? > > > > I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. The original Mac 128 had the 9 pin connector but it had a square shape as opposed to the later connectors. You can see the difference in this photo: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ap-mouse.jpg. The connector at the right is the original Mac 128K and the one on the left is a later version. My question is how much later :). From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed May 12 12:38:18 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Need info on SSI-263 speech chip. Message-ID: I'm looking for a data sheet for an SSI-263 Speech Chip. Basically I'm looking for information on how to program it. -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 12:38:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200405121802.OAA16076@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Do I have a list of items? How much is ???overwhelming???? > There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. > I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ???mouse in a > maze??? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow > paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are > look-in, not step-in rooms. Hoo boy. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Now I _really_ wish I lived closer! (I'd find the environment very familiar; my father's basement, while filled with things other than computers, was in other respects very much as you describe.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From medavidson at mac.com Wed May 12 13:10:14 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DB588B4-A43F-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 11, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > >> Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of >> some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved >> it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS >> (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). >> >> I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... > > I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also > have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... > Really? Does it work? I don't know why I'd want to acquire one of these, but I do... *grin* Mark From marvin at rain.org Wed May 12 13:37:58 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Apple mouse References: <200405111702.i4BH2Thl060408@huey.classiccmp.org> <38294.202.49.92.103.1084317136.squirrel@linux1.02net.co.nz> <40A2574E.D0C82A93@rain.org> Message-ID: <40A26F06.736546F5@rain.org> Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Michael Fincham wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the > > > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? > > > > > > > I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. > > The original Mac 128 had the 9 pin connector but it had a square shape > as opposed to the later connectors. You can see the difference in this > photo: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ap-mouse.jpg. The connector at the > right is the original Mac 128K and the one on the left is a later > version. My question is how much later :). OOPS, the one on the LEFT is the original 128K mouse. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 13:39:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <200405121802.OAA16076@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:38 PM 5/12/04 -0400, der mouse wrote: >> Do I have a list of items? How much is ???overwhelming???? > >> There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. >> I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ???mouse in a >> maze??? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow >> paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are >> look-in, not step-in rooms. > >Hoo boy. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Now I _really_ wish I >lived closer! (I'd find the environment very familiar; my father's >basement, while filled with things other than computers, was in other >respects very much as you describe.) So was my fathers. Now my house is that way. I think it's hereditary! Is there anyone on this list that ISN'T a packrat? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 13:37:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512143722.00b75c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It sounds like you guys from the NW are in for a real adventure! Joe At 11:37 AM 5/12/04 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. >Sound like most of you do business with Sellam Ismail, Erik Klein or Bruce >Lane. > >I will talk with the other family members this week and educate myself a bit. > >- - I am so glad I posted the message! > >Answers to your questions: > >Where in the Pacific NW? >Dad's stuff is in a few locations in the Tri-Cities (Richland, Pasco, and >Kennewick, WA). We are in the dry-desert side of the state. We are about 4 hours >from either Seattle or Portland, 2.5hrs from Spokane, and about 6hrs from >Boise. US395 & I82 intersect here. > >Do I have a list of items? How much is ???overwhelming???? >There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. >I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ???mouse in a maze??? >environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow paths through the living >and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are look-in, not step-in rooms. The >garage ??? well it is a very careful adventure, and only a quarter of the way >ventured. Furniture consists of workbenches and shelves mostly. He collected, but >rarely parted with anything. Wish I could have hooked him up with you guys a >year ago. (Hindsight 20/20) He was very proud of some of his finds. He would have >enjoyed the treasure hunt. > >Thanks Again. >Cathy > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed May 12 13:41:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet Message-ID: <200405121841.LAA03369@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Isn't this just a uP765 floppy controller? I think this is available from several sources. This is what was used on the first PC's. I think Intel has a different number for this as well. Dwight >From: "Jens Laland" > >Hi > >I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 >datasheet (Ref.: >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/021129.html). If >you by any means got hold of it, would there be a possibility that you >could share it with me? > >Best Regards, >Jens Laland >Bryne, Norway > > >I have been curious all my life, about things: something to play with, >investigate or know more about. However, a challenging process is often >better than firm results which tend to leave you in the void between lesser >storage space and the constant urge for something new. > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 13:57:07 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: Computer Estate References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001601c43852$ed0f8eb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I defnitely inherited the packrat gene. The biggest marital "disputes" that my wife and I have are related to my "stuff" (the wife calls it by another name that starts with the letter "s") being all over the place. Ashley P.S. It would sure be fun to go through that collection of computer stuff in the NW, but I'm in the SE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate > At 01:38 PM 5/12/04 -0400, der mouse wrote: > >> Do I have a list of items? How much is ??ooverwhelming???? > > > >> There is a 60x40 shop, a 40x20 shop, and a 4 bedroom house. > >> I am unable to make a complete list, because of the ??omouse in a > >> maze??? environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow > >> paths through the living and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are > >> look-in, not step-in rooms. > > > >Hoo boy. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Now I _really_ wish I > >lived closer! (I'd find the environment very familiar; my father's > >basement, while filled with things other than computers, was in other > >respects very much as you describe.) > > > So was my fathers. Now my house is that way. I think it's hereditary! Is > there anyone on this list that ISN'T a packrat? > > > Joe > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 12 14:32:38 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: older tek scope parts ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040512142946.03655ea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a plastic front cover for a Tektronix 2465a scope? I tried Tektronix and they say that they no longer stock parts for the older equipment. For reference, it is 12"x6". --tnx --tom From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 14:40:15 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: Message-ID: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to others or keep it for themselves? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) > Hi, > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 14:44:53 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000801c43859$98e51010$a0340f14@mcothran1> ... or you can choose to remain anonymous. - A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/23 (free) > Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to others > or keep it for themselves? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM > Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) > > > > Hi, > > > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 > > > > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 12 14:48:27 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) In-Reply-To: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: I have been in touch with Ken. He has a local person interested. If that does not pan out, I will be going up to pick it up this weekend. David. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Carder >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:40 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: PDP-11/23 (free) >>> >>> Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to >>> others or keep it for themselves? >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM >>> Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) >>> >>> >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. >>> > >>> > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. >>> > >>> > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, >>> > printer, and VT100 terminal. >>> > >>> > Located in Merrimack NH. >>> > >>> > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. >>> > >>> > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 >>> > >>> > >>> From allain at panix.com Wed May 12 14:47:40 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: <006f01c43858$f3767240$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <001101c43859$fccdb140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Is the person who acquired this going to "part it out" to > others or keep it for themselves? Based on prior replies, I might fear for certain peoples' marriage being "parted out" in legal custody disputes. John A. From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 14:51:44 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:28 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database Message-ID: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks who visit here? If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", "items for trade/sale", etc. I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, etc. Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. Ashley From torquil at chemist.com Wed May 12 15:10:10 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <00ad01c4385d$221df880$0500a8c0@floyd> > If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", > "items for trade/sale", etc. Something like this would be great, even if it is just a software package for one's own private uses. I mainly just want to catalog and archive information about my own 'collection', whether it be on or offline. I encourage you to go ahead, there is no such thing as too much of a good thing. ;) -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 15:18:26 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <00ad01c4385d$221df880$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <001101c4385e$48da3dc0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I would create it as a web-based, self-service application available on the web to registered members. It could perhaps be associated with this list, if the guys running the list approve (Jay?). I'll create a test-run version (in my spare time) and let everyone test it out. If you like it, we can keep it. Other ideas and thoughts? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > > > It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", > > "items for trade/sale", etc. > > Something like this would be great, even if it is just a software package > for one's own private uses. I mainly just want to catalog and archive > information about my own 'collection', whether it be on or offline. > > I encourage you to go ahead, there is no such thing as too much of a good > thing. ;) > > -- > Thanks, > Torquil MacCorkle, III > Lexington, Virginia > From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed May 12 15:24:23 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate Message-ID: > (the wife calls it by another name that starts with the > letter "s") S.H.I.T.E. (rhymes with kite) - Second Hand Information Technology Equipment. No shame in that. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 15:00:04 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that > documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks > who visit here? I'd certainly be interested in such a database, but if the interface to it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will not be participating at all actively. For my own part, I'm mostly a Sun person, concentrating on the period from late sun4c to the early sun4u. I'm mostly not interested in anything without an MMU or otherwise incapable of running some flavour of Unix, but not totally - for example, I have a 68hc11 development board I wouldn't mind another one of. I'd love to get hold of anything that runs four-year-old NetBSD that I don't already have an example of, especially if it's a CPU architecture I don't have, notably mmeye/evbsh3 (the Super-H SH3) or pc532. I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial digital size and reasonably small physical size, as I have an hp300 that's been gathering dust because I have almost no disk for it - or anything equivalent, such as a converter between HP-IB and something commoner such as IDE or SCSI. I also have a small number of Sun cards (mostly third-party) which are useless to me for lack of documentation, and I would love to find out anything anyone can tell me about them. I can't compose a list at the moment (I'm not near the cards), but if such a database is to be kept somewhere I can certainly make such a list. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 15:27:50 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate References: Message-ID: <002a01c4385f$99354430$a0340f14@mcothran1> :-) That's close! - Ashley. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:24 PM Subject: RE: RE: Computer Estate > > > (the wife calls it by another name that starts with the > > letter "s") > > S.H.I.T.E. (rhymes with kite) - Second Hand Information > Technology Equipment. > > No shame in that. > > Lee. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed May 12 15:35:11 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:51 PM Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks who visit here? If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", "items for trade/sale", etc. I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, etc. Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. Ashley _________________________ I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you when you're making a change for them.) I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of interest. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm and : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm The latter is my personal collecting/family site but both versions of the list are complete and up-to-date as of right now. We get letters from the site now and then, which I forward to all members no matter where they are or what they collect. Just got one yesterday from South Florida from someone with a raft of PC stuff. bm From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 15:38:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 12, 2004 02:39:33 PM Message-ID: <200405122038.i4CKchdB012904@onyx.spiritone.com> > So was my fathers. Now my house is that way. I think it's hereditary! Is > there anyone on this list that ISN'T a packrat? I find that it is, though the person originally afflicted with the problem also seems to have generally lived through the Great Depression. What gets me is my fathers collection of old newspapers and empty packing material. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 15:44:27 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> from "Brian Mahoney" at May 12, 2004 04:35:11 PM Message-ID: <200405122044.i4CKiS5U013314@onyx.spiritone.com> > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but > it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep > from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you > when you're making a change for them.) > > I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have > thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole > lot of interest. > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm Two comments on the lack of interest. How many people are aware it exists, and how many people are afriad of such a list making them a target? Zane From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed May 12 17:30:49 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 12.05.2004: >Message: 24 >Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:12:00 +0200 >From: Jochen Kunz >Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi. > >All this talk about frontpanel emulators... They are exciting... > >So I have this (mostly) working PDP-11/34, my one and only UniBus >machine. It came with a RK07 drive. But the system was stored under bad >conditions for years. There is rust and corrosion _everywhere_. The >machine works so far but the drive is quite rotten. I have no other >UniBus disk drive interfaces so I need either a new RK07 (unlikely) or >a replacement for the entire conroler / drive combination or: > >What about a RK07 drive emulating hardware? >A microcontroler with some TTLs to interface to the RK611 controler on >one side and a compact FLASH card on the other. Maybe cache RAM in front >of the FLASH to reduce write cycles to the FLASH. 32 MB is enough for a >RK07 disk, even if the emulator stores raw data including all sector >headers / trailers. > >Problem: Exact and detaild specs of the RK611 <=> RK0[67] interface. >I found some hints in the "RK06/RK07 Disk Drive User's Manual" but not >enough to build a new drive from scratch. Any pointers? > > >tsch??, >Jochen > Hi Jochen, A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it be a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? That would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with nothing else attached to it. If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it be to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a (better four) CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would become a RK07+ media... If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver issues, just a patch to the block-count to get those extra 4 megs of a 32m CF-card. A project like this would be a perfect entry for the VCFE of next year, isn't it? (Hurry up, only 50 weeks left! :-)) ) Greetings, Frank From ken.rauhala at nokia.com Wed May 12 12:39:27 2004 From: ken.rauhala at nokia.com (ken.rauhala@nokia.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: FW: PDP-11/23 (free, now gone) Message-ID: Hello, the system below has found a new owner, thanks to this mailing list. ken r. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ken.rauhala@nokia.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:33 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) Hi, This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, printer, and VT100 terminal. Located in Merrimack NH. I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 From jdbryan at acm.org Wed May 12 12:40:01 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040511211839.008c1d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> On 11 May 2004 at 21:18, Joe R. wrote: > Cameron, > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my hand that has datasheets for all of these parts. > Z0800110PCS CPU Central Processing Unit, 4.0 MHz segmented version (8 MB addressing). > Z08030AB1 Z-SCC Serial Communications Controller (dual channel), 6.0 MHz. > Z0803606PSC Z-CIO Counter/Timer and Parallel I/O Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0801010PSC Z-MMU Memory Management Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0858110PSC Clock Generator and Controller, 6.0 MHz. The data sheets average about 30 pages per part. Unless someone has already done so, I can scan and PDF these if you wish. Are you interested only in the features overview/general description for each, i.e., the first two or so pages (which would be quick), or the complete datasheets (which would be not-so-quick)? -- Dave From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 16:49:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <9DB588B4-A43F-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > > On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > > > >> Oh man... now THERE is a memory I had buried... I did a conversion of > >> some COBOL code (using RM/COBOL) that was on an MP/M system, and moved > >> it to a Zilog System 8000... they ran a version of Unix called ZEUS > >> (Zilog Enhanced Unix System), based on System III (I believe). > >> > >> I always thought it would be fun to find a working box... > > > > I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also > > have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... > > > > Really? Does it work? I don't know why I'd want to acquire one of > these, but I do... *grin* Hi Mark, I'm not interested in parting with it, but if you're nearby you're welcome to come over and play with it, or even bring it back to your place for an extended borrow. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Wed May 12 16:52:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1><00ad01c4385d$221df880$0500a8c0@floyd> <001101c4385e$48da3dc0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <021601c4386b$78133f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> The friendliest way to do this seems to be a webring where everybody has their own page, and all are linked together, making something like a neighborhood block party, where a visitor can go from person'd place to the next. Even though I've worked with databases, they seem too conforming and impersonal. I've held back in making a page (shy?) but would get in it quickly if classiccmp started a community (accent: unity) like this. BTW I've seen several of the database attempts, but few that appeal. maybe we should look at those first and see what's good/bad with them first. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 16:51:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that > documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the > folks who visit here? > > If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > > It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", > "items for trade/sale", etc. > > I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as > on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can > go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, > etc. > > Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing > already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. Version Dos of the VCM will be coming out soon and will address a lot of this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 17:25:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040511211839.008c1d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200405120111.SAA15148@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512182518.008c1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:40 PM 5/12/04 -0400, you wrote: >On 11 May 2004 at 21:18, Joe R. wrote: > >> Cameron, >> >> Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > >I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my hand >that has datasheets for all of these parts. > > >> Z0800110PCS CPU > >Central Processing Unit, 4.0 MHz segmented version (8 MB addressing). That makes sense. It looks the memory on these is arranged as 7Mb x 32 bit. > > >> Z08030AB1 Z-SCC > >Serial Communications Controller (dual channel), 6.0 MHz. > > >> Z0803606PSC Z-CIO > >Counter/Timer and Parallel I/O Unit, 4.0 MHz. > > >> Z0801010PSC Z-MMU > >Memory Management Unit, 4.0 MHz. > > >> Z0858110PSC > >Clock Generator and Controller, 6.0 MHz. > > >The data sheets average about 30 pages per part. Unless someone has >already done so, I can scan and PDF these if you wish. Are you interested >only in the features overview/general description for each, i.e., the first >two or so pages (which would be quick), or the complete datasheets (which >would be not-so-quick)? I'd just like to get a quick overview to begin with but if you don't mind scanning the whole thing I can post if on my website or I'm sure that Al would post it on his. Thanks, Joe > > -- Dave > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 17:29:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <021601c4386b$78133f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > BTW I've seen several of the database attempts, but few that appeal. > maybe we should look at those first and see what's good/bad with > them first. Patrick and I are always interested in comments, suggestions, and general feedback on the VCM. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 17:42:50 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040512224250.667.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> if the interface to it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will not be participating How else could it be done? Please be specific. --- der Mouse wrote: > > Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that > > documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the folks > > who visit here? > > I'd certainly be interested in such a database, but if the interface to > it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will not be participating > at all actively. > > For my own part, I'm mostly a Sun person, concentrating on the period > from late sun4c to the early sun4u. I'm mostly not interested in > anything without an MMU or otherwise incapable of running some flavour > of Unix, but not totally - for example, I have a 68hc11 development > board I wouldn't mind another one of. > > I'd love to get hold of anything that runs four-year-old NetBSD that I > don't already have an example of, especially if it's a CPU architecture > I don't have, notably mmeye/evbsh3 (the Super-H SH3) or pc532. > > I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial digital > size and reasonably small physical size, as I have an hp300 that's been > gathering dust because I have almost no disk for it - or anything > equivalent, such as a converter between HP-IB and something commoner > such as IDE or SCSI. > > I also have a small number of Sun cards (mostly third-party) which are > useless to me for lack of documentation, and I would love to find out > anything anyone can tell me about them. I can't compose a list at the > moment (I'm not near the cards), but if such a database is to be kept > somewhere I can certainly make such a list. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 17:54:32 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <021601c4386b$78133f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040512225432.1785.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Webring and unity: that's a good idea. I think one problem with web-based collector's lists is that too many people want to be one who 'owns' the list. It is a GOOD thing that so many people care about this hobby and want to see an authoritative directory, but is a BAD thing that they end of overlapping, ultimately creating a lack of interest. Perhaps it's Darwinian. For example, even though there are (I think) 500-700 people on this list and on CCtalk combined, there are still many more people who maybe aren't 'collectors' per se but who are still interested, and those people probably just Google whenever the need arises, and find their way to sites such as www.old-computers.com -- these people probably never know cctalk/cctech exists -- however these casual collectors are the ones we should be trying to lure deeper into the hobby. We all have to stop being introspective geeks and start being extrovertive advocates. Otherwise, isolated web sites and eBay will be our doom. --- John Allain wrote: > The friendliest way to do this seems to be a webring where everybody > has their own page, and all are linked together, making something like > a neighborhood block party, where a visitor can go from person'd place > to the next. Even though I've worked with databases, they seem too > conforming and impersonal. > I've held back in making a page (shy?) but would get in it quickly if > classiccmp started a community (accent: unity) like this. > BTW I've seen several of the database attempts, but few that appeal. > maybe we should look at those first and see what's good/bad with > them first. > > John A. > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 17:58:53 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 04:00:04PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: > I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial digital > size and reasonably small physical size... The only HPIB disks I have _are_ of trivial digital size and _non_ trivial physical size - Commodore D9060 and D9090 units (5MB and 7.5MB, 5.25"-full height MFM drives inside). I keep thinking of trying to rewrite the ROM code and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. One limitation, naturally, is the filesystem - it tops out at around 16MB (it manages cylinder, head and sectors internally as bytes - the "normal" geometry is something like 153 x 4|6 x 32). One could re-write the filesystem, since I am not aware of any PET apps that accessed the drive on a track/sector basis, unlike lots of floppy programs, but that's a whole lot more work than implementing a larger drive as N units of 255x255x255 sectors of 256 bytes. What probably makes more sense, naturally, is to not attempt to make the drive handle larger disks internally, but rather to make a D9060/D9090 _compatible_ drive, with a subset of C= DOS 3.0, using all modern technology, down to either a modern hard drive, or perhaps a CF card. All you'd really need for that is your favorite uP with an IEEE-488 interface, and a few megs of local storage. I haven't played much with HP IEEE-488 devices... where would I find the command set (i.e. what strings to send the drive over the GPIB bus) for mass storage? The other device I'm curious about is a 9-track HP drive I have, but that can wait until I'm home and have it in front of me... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-May-2004 22:36 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -65.5 F (-54.2 C) Windchill -124.6 F (-87 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.4 kts Grid 034 Barometer 687.6 mb (10341. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 17:56:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512144953.00b2b680@pop3.online.no> from "Jens Laland" at May 12, 4 02:51:37 pm Message-ID: > > Hi > > I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 > datasheet (Ref.: Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy controller? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:00:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at May 12, 4 07:16:35 am Message-ID: > I believe that this is a problem with virtually *any* component you could > choose. The newer stuff seems to generally have shorter lifespans. I > believe this is an outcome of having more choices -- none of the "newer" > chips (with perhaps some exceptions from Intel) has enough of a following to > be readily available down the road. As you said, the newer chips are worse. I've come across chips that have gone out of production in the time between the announcement and the distributors getting stocks of them. Hmmm.... Personally, the only 8-bit CPU I think can be depended on to stay around is the Intel 8031 family. It's used everywhere, and many manufacturers either make it, or make 'improved' versions. You can ignroe the 'improvements' if you like. I thought the 6809 was getting somewhat hard to find now :-(. The Z80 and 6502 were a lot more popular and are still listed in catalogues over here (the 6809 doesn't seem to be.) As for SRAM and EPROMs. I am sure both will be around in 10 years time, even if at a vastly increased capacity. And just as now we put 2764s in place of 2716s with a few minor mods, I guess in the future we'll make up daughterbaords to put the latest SMD EPROMs into 28 pin DIL sockets. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:04:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 12, 4 05:12:00 pm Message-ID: > > Hi. > > All this talk about frontpanel emulators... > > So I have this (mostly) working PDP-11/34, my one and only UniBus > machine. It came with a RK07 drive. But the system was stored under bad > conditions for years. There is rust and corrosion _everywhere_. The Yeas ago I bought an RK07 which had been flooded by a burst pipe. It was cheap, and I figured that at least the plastic parts would still be useable. When I took it off the stand, water poured out of the hollow baseplate (this is part of the air duct on the RK07, Anyway, I cleaned it all up, cleaned the heads, cleaned the connectors, lubricated the fan etc. And then tried it out. Worked fine! > machine works so far but the drive is quite rotten. I have no other > UniBus disk drive interfaces so I need either a new RK07 (unlikely) or > a replacement for the entire conroler / drive combination or: > > What about a RK07 drive emulating hardware? Wouldn't it be simpler to make a Unibus card with the flash memory and interface on it that pretended to be a disk controller? The Unibus is fairly well documented and quite simple. [...] > > Problem: Exact and detaild specs of the RK611 <=3D> RK0[67] interface. > I found some hints in the "RK06/RK07 Disk Drive User's Manual" but not > enough to build a new drive from scratch. Any pointers?=20 Do you have the printsets for the drive and controller? I managed to work out quite a bit of the interface from those. -tony > --=20 > > > tsch=FC=DF, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:07:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> from "Bogilady@aol.com" at May 12, 4 11:37:54 am Message-ID: > I am unable to make a complete list, because of the =E2=80=9Cmouse in a maze= > =E2=80=9D=20 > environment. We shuffle sideways down the halls, and follow paths through th= > e living=20 > and dining room. Two of the bedrooms are look-in, not step-in rooms. The=20 > garage =E2=80=A6 well it is a very careful adventure, and only a quarter of=20= > the way=20 > ventured. Furniture consists of workbenches and shelves mostly. He collected= Are you sure this isn't in south-west London, England ? This sounds exactly like this house. Machines, tools, test gear everywhere. You have to climb over machines to get into some of the rooms, etc... -tony From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed May 12 17:46:11 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <001601c43852$ed0f8eb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <156.34d2552b.2dd39ed2@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040512143933.00861720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512154315.02f33ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 02:57 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >I defnitely inherited the packrat gene. >The biggest marital "disputes" that my wife and I have are >related to my "stuff" (the wife calls it by another name that >starts with the letter "s") being all over the place. This is actually a good thing. It wouldn't be as much fun if our SOs encouraged our behavior. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed May 12 18:18:28 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512154812.02f32030@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 03:51 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that >documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the >folks who visit here? Maybe something like a profile, lots of check boxes etc. places for urls etc. Thats the easy part, who has access and what kind etc. is the hard question From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed May 12 18:57:25 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet Message-ID: <200405122357.i4CNvOhc074131@huey.classiccmp.org> At 23:56 12/05/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 >> datasheet (Ref.: > >Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy >controller? > >-tony Yes it is. The only real difference is that the Rockwell chip allows up to 255 step pulses when zeroing the head, while the Nec device will fail after 77. Means you may have to do it twice with the NEC device if you have 80 track drives). You can grab the 765 datasheet from my "parse.com" page (see below), it's available under the "Dunfield 6809" entry (I used it in the design of this machine). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 17:57:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <20040512224250.667.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040512224250.667.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405122345.TAA17684@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> if the interface to it is some Web-only horror, I unfortunately will >> not be participating > How else could it be done? Please be specific. (1) Use email for sending data in, email and/or FTP for serving data. (2) Set up an ssh/telnet-to-here-and-login-as-this-user CLI. (3) A special-purpose mud, on which people could build representations of their collections. If you want a more precise design, I can try to come up with one for you, though I'm somewhat limited in my desire to design things in detail without at least a reasonable chance they might get built. I've built enough software that I'm confident I could design and build any of the above - or probably even all of the above talking to the same backend database. None of those precludes having a Web interface _as well_, of course. It's the Web-_only_ things that are problematic. (I actually suspect that being Web-only, per se, is only part of the problem, and that a nontrivial part of the problem is the cultural baggage that so far, in my experience, correlates amazingly well with building Web-only interfaces, cultural baggage that assumes nobody ever wants to script access to the interface, everyone is perfectly happy to use commercial binary-only pointy-clicky software and in particular whichever particular commercial binary-only pointy-clicky thing the designer thinks is the One True Web Interface with all the security holes enabled (Java, JavaScript, ActiveX, etc). It likely is possible to build a decent Web interface - for my values of "decent" - to such a thing, but I haven't seen it done yet.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed May 12 18:57:06 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C22@email1.parl.net> Only a very minor detail, but I beleive that the certain Zilog chip designations also indicate the max clock speed. For instance the Z0800110PSC is a Z8001 (Z08001.. portion), with a max clock speed of 10MHz (..10.. portion), and the PSC indicates a palstic DIP package. So I would guess that the CPU, clock generator, and MMUs are 10MHz, and the Z-CIO is 6MHz. The Z-SCC is probably an older chip that predates the current Zilog chip designation standard. > Z0800110PCS CPU Central Processing Unit, 4.0 MHz segmented version (8 MB addressing). > Z08030AB1 Z-SCC Serial Communications Controller (dual channel), 6.0 MHz. > Z0803606PSC Z-CIO Counter/Timer and Parallel I/O Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0801010PSC Z-MMU Memory Management Unit, 4.0 MHz. > Z0858110PSC Clock Generator and Controller, 6.0 MHz. David From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 18:50:14 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I'd also particularly like to hear of HP-IB disks of nontrivial >> digital size and reasonably small physical size... > The only HPIB disks I have _are_ of trivial digital size and _non_ > trivial physical size - Me too. I have two drives of ca. 100-200 MB each, in boxes perhaps 1'x1'x8", and one drive of about half a gig in a rackmount unit that takes up something like 8U or 12U (full-height), is full depth (something like three feet?), weighs approximately what I do, and pulls about 11 amps mains current briefly on startup, 4 or 5 amps idling. > Commodore D9060 and D9090 units (5MB and 7.5MB, 5.25"-full height MFM > drives inside). I keep thinking of trying to rewrite the ROM code > and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. The software-driven SASI port of what? The machine I want to use this on is a NetBSD/hp300 system, a 319 or 320 or some such. > I haven't played much with HP IEEE-488 devices... where would I find > the command set (i.e. what strings to send the drive over the GPIB > bus) for mass storage? Darned if I know. The NetBSD/hp300 driver might have some of that in it, but it also might not. I ought to go look. I have what I think is probably an IEEE-488 interface for a SPARC (it's an SBus card); perhaps I should try to scare up docs on it and see if I can put it in a machine and build a disk server for it. That should be sufficiently hacky. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spectre at floodgap.com Wed May 12 19:16:45 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> from "J. David Bryan" at "May 12, 4 01:40:01 pm" Message-ID: <200405130016.RAA15272@floodgap.com> > > Cameron, > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > > I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my hand > that has datasheets for all of these parts. What he said. ^_^ -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- SOFTWARE -- formal evening attire for female computer analysts. ------------ From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed May 12 19:35:25 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622468@email1.parl.net> > > > Cameron, > > > Do you have any docs on the ICs used on this board? > > > > I'm not Cameron :-), but I have a 1983 Zilog Components Databook in my > > hand > > that has datasheets for all of these parts. > > What he said. ^_^ Any chance that the data book has a datasheet for the Z8016. I got some on ebay and I don't exactly know what they are. I think they are a some form of DMA chip as they are labelled Z-DTC, which I have read somewhere means DMA Transfer Controller. David From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 12 19:37:03 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040512173616.A17069@newshell.lmi.net> > > I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 > > datasheet (Ref.: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy > controller? Is that similar to the Intel 8272? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed May 12 19:40:21 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <200405122044.i4CKiS5U013314@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <001701c43882$f1537920$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but > > it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep > > from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you > > when you're making a change for them.) > > > > I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have > > thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole > > lot of interest. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > Two comments on the lack of interest. How many people are aware it exists, > and how many people are afriad of such a list making them a target? > > Zane A target for what? Spam? Offers of free computers? Information and price quotes? I get all of those but that's why I use hotmail/yahoo etc. except for this list. Since 1995 I've answered every email I've received about computers and pricing, where to find collectors and many offers of free computers. I don't mind it one bit. Really don't know why anyone would be afraid of being a target. I figure it's a service I am offering and my reward is free computers ... lots of them. As for people not knowing it exists, the fifth search result in Google for 'computer collectors list' is a reference from classiccomp.Gives the url and complete info on how to get listed. You're right though, there should be more mention of it. Don't know what else I can do except send my info to Google every now and then plus mention it on here. Hey, go for it. The more lists there are, the more valuable stuff is kept out of the landfill. If there are a hundred lists, it'll be a lot easier for folks to contact collectors. If you've got some better ideas on marketing such a list, take the ball and run with it. I'll support anyone who does. I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can do this. bm From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 19:39:25 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 07:50:14PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: I wrote: > > The only HPIB disks I have _are_ of trivial digital size and _non_ > > trivial physical size - > > > Commodore D9060 and D9090 units (5MB and 7.5MB, 5.25"-full height MFM > > drives inside). I keep thinking of trying to rewrite the ROM code > > and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. > > The software-driven SASI port of what? The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs in the drive enclosure, a "DOS board" (C='s term) with one processor to talk GPIB to the outside world, and another processor to talk SASI to the other board, a Xebec? SASI<->ST-506 board. The drive mech is either a Tandon TM602S or a TM603S. The idea was to upgrade the "DOS board" firmware to speak SCSI rather than SASI (same electrical interface, _slightly_ different command set) to use a more modern 50MB-200MB drive of the sort I have in stacks on the shelf. Slightly easier than implementing a command-set compatible drive from scratch. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 00:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -66.9 F (-55.0 C) Windchill -130.3 F (-90.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.7 kts Grid 031 Barometer 688.1 mb (10321. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 19:52:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040513005200.GB24326@mapo1.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:00:39AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > As you said, the newer chips are worse. I've come across chips that have > gone out of production in the time between the announcement and the > distributors getting stocks of them. Hmmm.... No kidding... the project I'm working on has had to change chips at least once, mid-stream. > Personally, the only 8-bit CPU I think can be depended on to stay around > is the Intel 8031 family. It's used everywhere, and many manufacturers > either make it, or make 'improved' versions. You can ignroe the > 'improvements' if you like. Those certainly are popular and prevalent. > I thought the 6809 was getting somewhat hard to find now :-(. The Z80 and > 6502 were a lot more popular and are still listed in catalogues over here > (the 6809 doesn't seem to be.) I'm personally a big 6502 fan, but I also recognize that it's not universally popular. > As for SRAM and EPROMs. I am sure both will be around in 10 years time, > even if at a vastly increased capacity. And just as now we put 2764s in > place of 2716s with a few minor mods, I guess in the future we'll make up > daughterbaords to put the latest SMD EPROMs into 28 pin DIL sockets. Well... that _is_ the the sort of thing that's going to be harder to find in 10 years... DIP parts... SMD adapters will work, but if you have to pay for lots of them... they'll get expensive. One for an EPROM isn't too bad, but dozens? Fortunately, lots of us have lots of DIP parts lying around, enough to last years and years. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 00:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -67.2 F (-55.1 C) Windchill -127.2 F (-88.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.5 kts Grid 022 Barometer 688.1 mb (10321. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 20:02:55 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001701c43882$f1537920$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: I appreciate the encouragement. A searchable database is very do-able, as long as we can get interested folks to contribute to it. A web ring is also a good thing and is very do-able as well. There are things that can be done to make your pages move toward the front of Google searches so that they can be found. I also agree with the earlier comment that mentioned the word UNITY. I understand that it is often hard to get a large group of folks organized for such a task, but even if we can get some portion of the folks here to participate, I do believe it will be beneficial. I will hold off on doing anything for a few days and see what other types of ideas folks have. If we do move forward on such a thing, I think that it will be more successful if everyone has input. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:40 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I know, but > > it's an attempt anyway. The hard part is to keep emails current (and to keep > > from getting pissed off at people who don't have the decency to thank you > > when you're making a change for them.) > > > > I've posted requests for additions to this list every now and then, and have > > thought of making changes but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a whole > > lot of interest. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > Two comments on the lack of interest. How many people are aware it exists, > and how many people are afriad of such a list making them a target? > > Zane A target for what? Spam? Offers of free computers? Information and price quotes? I get all of those but that's why I use hotmail/yahoo etc. except for this list. Since 1995 I've answered every email I've received about computers and pricing, where to find collectors and many offers of free computers. I don't mind it one bit. Really don't know why anyone would be afraid of being a target. I figure it's a service I am offering and my reward is free computers ... lots of them. As for people not knowing it exists, the fifth search result in Google for 'computer collectors list' is a reference from classiccomp.Gives the url and complete info on how to get listed. You're right though, there should be more mention of it. Don't know what else I can do except send my info to Google every now and then plus mention it on here. Hey, go for it. The more lists there are, the more valuable stuff is kept out of the landfill. If there are a hundred lists, it'll be a lot easier for folks to contact collectors. If you've got some better ideas on marketing such a list, take the ball and run with it. I'll support anyone who does. I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can do this. bm From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed May 12 20:58:45 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) References: Message-ID: <40A2D655.9E3BE55D@compsys.to> >"David V. Corbin" wrote: > I have been in touch with Ken. He has a local person interested. If that > does not pan out, I will be going up to pick it up this weekend. > > From: > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 Jerome Fine replies: Since I switched to using RT-11 / TSX-PLUS and other PDP-11 software under these OSs using an emulator that runs 15 times as fast as a real DEC PDP-11/93, I don't really have much interest in the real PDP-11 hardware. And since I am a software addict, that suits me perfectly. BUT, I am attempting to preserve as much RT-11 / TSX-PLUS software as possible. I am in the last stages of getting V1-0 of a CD with 13 different distributions of RT-11 ready (from V1-15 to V05.03). So having access to as many of the old RT-11 distributions as possible is the goal. If possible, I would like a copy of all of the RT-11 distributions and the layered products. Are there any RT-11 distributions among the media, including BASIC and FORTRAN? Is there some way that you could copy them? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 12 20:56:17 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> and turn the software-driven SASI port into a SCSI port. >> The software-driven SASI port of what? > The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs in the drive > enclosure, a "DOS board" (C='s term) with one processor to talk GPIB > to the outside world, and another processor to talk SASI to the other > board, a Xebec? SASI<->ST-506 board. The drive mech is either a > Tandon TM602S or a TM603S. This...does not agree with the reality I find upon opening up the first HP-IB disk that came to hand (a 7958). The HP-IB connector is soldered to a board which speaks to the disk drive - a Micropolis 1355, not a TManything - over two ribbon cables. Except for stuff internal to the 1355, the only other PCB in the box is the power supply. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 21:14:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001701c43882$f1537920$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I > think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can > do this. Again, this is exactly what the Vintage Computer Marketplace database feature does/will do. The next iteration of the system will have most (or all) of this functionality in place. There are other tangible benefits to using the VCM to keep your catalog online, including being able to easily convert a database entry into a for sale/auction listing and also transfering records from one collection to another with a single click and thereby automatically creating a line of provenance for a particular system. Plus many more cool features... http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vrs at msn.com Wed May 12 21:35:48 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: Message-ID: > > I believe that this is a problem with virtually *any* component you could > > choose. The newer stuff seems to generally have shorter lifespans. I > > believe this is an outcome of having more choices -- none of the "newer" > > chips (with perhaps some exceptions from Intel) has enough of a following to > > be readily available down the road. > > As you said, the newer chips are worse. I've come across chips that have > gone out of production in the time between the announcement and the > distributors getting stocks of them. Hmmm.... > > Personally, the only 8-bit CPU I think can be depended on to stay around > is the Intel 8031 family. It's used everywhere, and many manufacturers > either make it, or make 'improved' versions. You can ignroe the > 'improvements' if you like. I fear you are correct :-). That's not good news for the "Intel-yuck!" crowd. > I thought the 6809 was getting somewhat hard to find now :-(. The Z80 and > 6502 were a lot more popular and are still listed in catalogues over here > (the 6809 doesn't seem to be.) The 6809 can still be had from Mouser, and a few other places with much better prices. In this case, I think the 680x was originally chosen for the ease of programming. I concede that the 8031 and the Z80 are both more available (and likely to remain so). I don't see 6502 at, say, Digikey. They do seem to be as available as the 6809, though. > As for SRAM and EPROMs. I am sure both will be around in 10 years time, > even if at a vastly increased capacity. And just as now we put 2764s in > place of 2716s with a few minor mods, I guess in the future we'll make up > daughterbaords to put the latest SMD EPROMs into 28 pin DIL sockets. Maybe we should all design them into everything we do, in an effort to sustain demand for them at a level where they are considered worth providing :-). (BTW, for anyone who thinks that might actually work: there is a real world out there, waiting to be discovered.) Vince From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 21:59:32 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, I don't want to do duplicate work. How will folks put their information into your system and search for stuff, etc? It sounds like you're already planning to do these things that I brought up in my original post. When will your database be available for us to put our name, interests, catalog, location, want list, etc. into? Something like that would be of great benefit to folks here and would sure make searching easier. Thanks, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:14 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database On Wed, 12 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I think the key would be to have a searchable database online. Someone > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly find them. I > think that was the gist of the original post. Best of luck to anyone who can > do this. Again, this is exactly what the Vintage Computer Marketplace database feature does/will do. The next iteration of the system will have most (or all) of this functionality in place. There are other tangible benefits to using the VCM to keep your catalog online, including being able to easily convert a database entry into a for sale/auction listing and also transfering records from one collection to another with a single click and thereby automatically creating a line of provenance for a particular system. Plus many more cool features... http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 12 21:03:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: Forward from the Computer Collector's List Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040512220327.008bc590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FYI I went over and visited Ed today and bought the o'scope. He has a nice old IBM PC XT if anyone is interested in one. He's the original owner and thinks that he still has the original reciepts, etc for it. He bought it WITHOUT a hard drive! It still has the two original HH floppy drives with the * on them. He's installed a hard card and a 3 1/2" floppy drive. It still has the original floppy drive controller in it. I think he has all or most of the other original cards for it. He has several different video cards for it including a Paradise CGA card that can drive a monochrome monitor. He has a Amber Amdek monitor for it and I think he also has a VGA monitor and video card for it. The machine is in very good condition. If anyone wants a good original IBM computer they should give him a call. Joe At 07:09 PM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: > >This came in today for anyone in the southeast US. Doesn't sound that >collectible but who knows. > >Brian > >>From: "Ed Elkes" >>To: >>Subject: Lost enthusiasm >>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:16:04 -0400 >> >> >>I never thought I'd say this, but I've lost my enthusiasm for keeping the >>old machines running. Original IBM PC-XT, Compaq 386-33, ALR Pentium-133. >>Just not in the mood, anymore, I guess. >> >>I'm looking for anyone who is looking for, not only these PC's, but scads >>of >>boards, SCSI controllers and drives, server cases, Netware manuals, RAM, >>etc. I've held on to enough parts to rebuild these machines several times, >>and now I would like to find someone who needs or can use them for their >>own >>hobby machines. These machines all ran on my Netware network, which also >>has gone away. >> >>I've placed a list of what I've sorted out, so far, on my Web page, so you >>can see what there is and see if you, or anyone you know, might be >>interested. The list will be updated as items have sold and more items >>have >>been added. I'm not through uncovering stuff. Everything is IBM PC-based, >>8 and 16 bit. I never followed Apple or the earlier kit brands, although I >>did have a few. >> >>The Web page is www.geocities.com/ed_9213. More detailed info for the >>above >>computers is listed there, as well as the miscellaneous items. Like, where >>would you still find an 8-bit multi I/O card with 2FD 1S 1P 1G & clock, or >>a >>B/W VGA monitor? How about PC DOS 2.1, or a hard drive controller that will >>handle 8 IDE drives at once? Just a sample. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Ed Elkes >>Lake Mary, Florida (Orlando Area) >>ed9213@cfl.rr.com >> From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Wed May 12 22:17:43 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:29 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c43898$db266ed0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > > I think the key would be to have a searchable database > online. Someone > > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly > find them. To elaborate on what Sellam said about the Vintage Computer Marketplace, even the current version can do this, and although the current incarnation of that process is a bit more manual than we'd ultimately like it to be, it's far less manual than sending email to a bunch of lists or webmasters of various sites and waiting for replies. Specifically, on the current version of the site, you will find in the left navigation a "Wanted" link... This page presents a list of what all current VCM members have in their wish lists, and who is looking for them. You can contact them by clicking on their name. If you, for example, have a PDP-11 you wish to sell, you can readily find who would be interested in buying. If there is recent history for that item, it also displays the high, low, and average price for it over the last 12 months, so you can get some datapoints on value. If you happen have one of those items in your collection, it will alert you to that fact (so you don't have to remember). Also, wherever you see someone's user name (handle as we call it), you can click to see their profile, and you'll see the listing of what's in their collection. If an item is for sale, there's a link to the listing. Check out mine (incomplete, but most of the important stuff is there, and yes, it's extremely modest by most of your standards, I'm sure)... http://marketplace.vintage.org/showuser.cfm?handle=patrick You'll also see my personal wish list there, if you're interested. :-) We chose not to put a site-wide search of people's collections in the first revision because of privacy/abuse concerns. We were concerned that VCM members would get sheafs of email offering to take that off their hands for . Ironically, even without that search capability, this is happening anyway. People email sellers based on listings they post for sale/auction. But in the last few months, what we've heard so far is that (1) people really want to search collections across the entire membership base, and (2) some people want their collections to be private. The former is coming, and we already support the latter. So, we're getting there, and we're listening. A lot of people have had great feedback, and a lot of that feedback has been incorporated into the site already. Please keep it coming, but here's a hint: feedback (politely worded) from registered members who have actually used the site (beyond just registering and skimming a few pages), carries more weight. Ashley: Try us out. It's free. It's painless. It's run by fellow collectors. Patrick :-) From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 22:38:57 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001701c43898$db266ed0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: Patrick, Thanks for the info! I'll check it out. It sounds like you're already mostly there. I'm still learning about the various resources available and seemed to notice a lack of a collector profile site/database, but it was likely due to my lack of knowledge of what's available. If I'm looking for stuff, I look first on eBay and VCM, then Google. I was trying to make a list for myself of who had what types of collections, so I would have a reference. Once I take a short tour, I'll give you some feedback, (constructive, not destructive!). Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:18 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: IDEA - Collector interest database > > I think the key would be to have a searchable database > online. Someone > > collects X computers and someone who has one can instantly > find them. To elaborate on what Sellam said about the Vintage Computer Marketplace, even the current version can do this, and although the current incarnation of that process is a bit more manual than we'd ultimately like it to be, it's far less manual than sending email to a bunch of lists or webmasters of various sites and waiting for replies. Specifically, on the current version of the site, you will find in the left navigation a "Wanted" link... This page presents a list of what all current VCM members have in their wish lists, and who is looking for them. You can contact them by clicking on their name. If you, for example, have a PDP-11 you wish to sell, you can readily find who would be interested in buying. If there is recent history for that item, it also displays the high, low, and average price for it over the last 12 months, so you can get some datapoints on value. If you happen have one of those items in your collection, it will alert you to that fact (so you don't have to remember). Also, wherever you see someone's user name (handle as we call it), you can click to see their profile, and you'll see the listing of what's in their collection. If an item is for sale, there's a link to the listing. Check out mine (incomplete, but most of the important stuff is there, and yes, it's extremely modest by most of your standards, I'm sure)... http://marketplace.vintage.org/showuser.cfm?handle=patrick You'll also see my personal wish list there, if you're interested. :-) We chose not to put a site-wide search of people's collections in the first revision because of privacy/abuse concerns. We were concerned that VCM members would get sheafs of email offering to take that off their hands for . Ironically, even without that search capability, this is happening anyway. People email sellers based on listings they post for sale/auction. But in the last few months, what we've heard so far is that (1) people really want to search collections across the entire membership base, and (2) some people want their collections to be private. The former is coming, and we already support the latter. So, we're getting there, and we're listening. A lot of people have had great feedback, and a lot of that feedback has been incorporated into the site already. Please keep it coming, but here's a hint: feedback (politely worded) from registered members who have actually used the site (beyond just registering and skimming a few pages), carries more weight. Ashley: Try us out. It's free. It's painless. It's run by fellow collectors. Patrick :-) From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 22:32:05 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database Message-ID: <20040513033206.2484.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Patrick R. wrote >>>> So, we're getting there, and we're listening. This week I bought an Apple Newton through the VCM. I noticed that the system automatically moved the unit from the seller's "my collection" list into my own list. That was pretty cool. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 22:36:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet In-Reply-To: <20040512173616.A17069@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at May 12, 4 05:37:03 pm Message-ID: > > > > I see that you in October 2003 were looking for the Rockwell R6765 > > > datasheet (Ref.: > > On Wed, 12 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Isn't this essentially the same thing as the NEC 765 or Intel 8227 floppy > > controller? > > Is that similar to the Intel 8272? Err, sorry, it's a typo on my part. I meant 8272 (of course)! -tony From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 12 22:56:58 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <20040513033206.2484.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm checking it out now. I just registered. I like what I see so far. Is there a way to see a list of all the registered members and their interests? What I'd like to do is produce a list of all registered users who are interested in PDP-11's, for example. I know that some users would want to remain private, and that's ok too. They just wouldn't show up on the list. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of evan Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: IDEA - Collector interest database Patrick R. wrote >>>> So, we're getting there, and we're listening. This week I bought an Apple Newton through the VCM. I noticed that the system automatically moved the unit from the seller's "my collection" list into my own list. That was pretty cool. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 22:50:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > I don't want to do duplicate work. How will folks put their > information into your system and search for stuff, etc? It > sounds like you're already planning to do these things that I > brought up in my original post. When will your database be > available for us to put our name, interests, catalog, location, > want list, etc. into? Something like that would be of great > benefit to folks here and would sure make searching easier. Most (all?) of those features are already in place. There are just a few loose ends to tie up to make it complete and fully functional. For instance, right now there's not an easy way to find another user's collection, though you can get a complete listing of the various wanted items and contact the wanting users directly. Anyway, the next iteration of the system will tie up a lot of these loose ends. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 12 23:00:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Is there a way to see a list of all the registered members and their > interests? Not yet. > What I'd like to do is produce a list of all registered users who are > interested in PDP-11's, for example. I know that some users would want > to remain private, and that's ok too. They just wouldn't show up on the > list. So far, the only thing you can do is go to 'Power Search" (just below the "Quick Search" box) and select Brand: DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION (or DEC) and then all the current ad listings featuring DEC items will appear. You cannot get a listing of all the DEC gear that each user has added to their personal inventory, yet. This is for privacy reasons. In the future, we are contemplating adding the ability for each user to specify if they want items in their personal collection to appear in searches. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 23:39:19 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Computer Estate In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040512154315.02f33ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from "Mike Ford" at May 12, 2004 03:46:11 PM Message-ID: <200405130439.i4D4dJ0G025176@onyx.spiritone.com> > This is actually a good thing. It wouldn't be as much fun if our SOs > encouraged our behavior. Actually it's *DANGEROUS* if they do. Both my wife and I are into collecting Video Game systems. This is a hobby that we both got into together after we got married. As an example of how this can be a problem, she's the one that found our 4-slot Neo Geo arcade cabinet, and we have way to many consoles and handhelds (including his and hers GBA's). Of course her nephews think we're totally cool as a result... Zane From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 12 23:38:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:56:17PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: I wrote: > > The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs in the drive > > enclosure, a "DOS board" (C='s term) with one processor to talk GPIB > > to the outside world, and another processor to talk SASI to the other > > board, a Xebec? SASI<->ST-506 board. The drive mech is either a > > Tandon TM602S or a TM603S. > > This...does not agree with the reality I find upon opening up the first > HP-IB disk that came to hand (a 7958). The HP-IB connector is soldered > to a board which speaks to the disk drive - a Micropolis 1355, not a > TManything - over two ribbon cables. Except for stuff internal to the > 1355, the only other PCB in the box is the power supply. I wasn't trying to describe _all_ HPIB drives, just the Commodore D9060 and D9090 drives. Your 7958 sounds like a perfectly valid way of doing things... in fact, since it uses a 1355, I'm sort of intrigued (since I have a few on the shelf). I'll have to try to remember that HP model number when I'm digging for drive docs. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 04:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.4 F (-56.3 C) Windchill -132.2 F (-91.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.1 kts Grid 028 Barometer 688.3 mb (10313. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 00:02:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405130505.BAA28599@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> The SASI port is internal - there are two PCBs [...] >> This...does not agree with the reality I find upon opening up the >> first HP-IB disk that came to hand (a 7958). [...] > I wasn't trying to describe _all_ HPIB drives, just the Commodore > D9060 and D9090 drives. Ah! I misunderstood. ("When I regained consciousness...." :) > Your 7958 sounds like a perfectly valid way of doing things... in > fact, since it uses a 1355, I'm sort of intrigued (since I have a few > on the shelf). I'll have to try to remember that HP model number > when I'm digging for drive docs. I should poke around and see if I have any other drives with that interface (what is it, ESDI?). If I have any _largeish_ such drives (FVO "largeish" of about "more than about ?G") I'd be extremely tempted to hook one up and see if it works. I also should dig out that SBus IEEE488 card and see if I can scare up any doc on it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 00:28:50 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: AUI multiport? Message-ID: <200405130532.BAA28649@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I have a hazy memory saying that some time back, someone here on the list was looking for an AUI multiport transceiver (ie, a device that presents one host interface and several, usually 8, transceiver interfaces, thus allowing one "real" transceiver to serve multiple hosts). The memory says that I was going to send one I have and don't expect to ever use again to this person, but something intervened and I never sent it. If this sounds like you, drop me a note and I'll see if I can't get it sent off to you. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From musicman38 at comcast.net Thu May 13 00:38:15 2004 From: musicman38 at comcast.net (Musicman38) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase References: <000901c437fa$a4a7d270$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client Terminals. 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. Running Windows CE.. However to my dismay they only have Citrix ICA as a client, and I have a Windows 2000 Server.. I know nothing about Citrix, but from my searching, it's not compatible with my Windows 2000 Server. Question: (1) Is it even worth my buying the Citrix Metaframe software to run on my Windows Server ? (2) Would it be better to upgrade the Internal ROM to the newer version ($50) that has ICA, Plus RDP 5.1 ? Any suggestions greatly appreciated.. ~Phil From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 13 00:51:02 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase In-Reply-To: <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> References: <000901c437fa$a4a7d270$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> Message-ID: <200405130051.02737.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 13 May 2004 00:38, Musicman38 wrote: > I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client > Terminals. 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. > Running Windows CE.. > > However to my dismay they only have Citrix ICA as a client, and I > have a Windows 2000 Server.. Not to be rude or anything... but you might try a different mailing list/newsgroup. WinTerms are neither classic(old) or that unique... There are plenty of other PC/Windows related mailing lists/newsgroups out there to help you with your question, filled with people that are generally more knowledgable about that sort of thing. I'm just trying to help; I'm a bit more forgiving than some of the other list members are... :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 01:38:47 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase In-Reply-To: <016401c438ac$7d51a6d0$1e00a8c0@philxp> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Musicman38 wrote: > I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client Terminals. > 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. > Running Windows CE.. Nice! I use a few of those (not the same brand, but thin clients) and its nice and quiet :) > Question: > (1) Is it even worth my buying the Citrix Metaframe software to run on my > Windows Server ? No. > (2) Would it be better to upgrade the Internal ROM to the newer version > ($50) that has ICA, Plus RDP 5.1 ? Yes. That should also get you Telnet, so you can connect to UNIX and VMS hosts in text mode. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 03:51:26 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... Message-ID: Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at first) an apple IIC+ I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial Gems" "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 02:59:39 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:30:49 +0100 Frank Arnold wrote: > A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it be > a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? That > would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with nothing else > attached to it. Sure. But who will fab the big, odd-shaped UniBus boards? Do you have enough UniBus transceiver chips in stock? > If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it be > to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a (better four) > CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would become a RK07+ > media... Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit slice CPU in it. > If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver > issues, There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That is an other issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you have to make the emulation good enough for all operating systems. It may work for a RK611, but what about a UDA50 with its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler that has a T11 with some non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick this in a (cheap, small) FPGA. > A project like this would be a perfect entry for the VCFE of next > year, isn't it? (Hurry up, only 50 weeks left! :-)) ) Yes, that is where the idea for this project was born. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 02:36:53 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040512171200.274707e7.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 00:04:57 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > When I took it off the stand, water poured out of the hollow > baseplate When I took the fan out of my drive I poured out about a good hand full of rust. The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the RK07 or build a solid state RK07 replacement. > Anyway, I cleaned it all up, cleaned the heads, cleaned the > connectors, lubricated the fan etc. And then tried it out. Worked > fine! Well. I have to take apart the base plate to clean it inside. This is destructive, as the base plate is welded. I already bought a sand blasting unit to "clean" the UniBus box of the machine. > Wouldn't it be simpler to make a Unibus card with the flash memory and > interface on it that pretended to be a disk controller? I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic and maybe a microcontroller a bit more powerfull then a 8 bit Atmel AVR. This seems to be more complex then a solid state RK07 replacement. A RK07 replacement should be doable with a hand full of serial <=> parallel converter chips (data and controll words are transfered serially between drive and controler), a 8 bit Atmel AVR and a FLASH, IDE, whatever disk. > The Unibus is fairly well documented and quite simple. I know. I have the DEC "pdp 11 bus handbook". > Do you have the printsets for the drive and controller? No. I found only the User's Manual. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 04:31:25 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > slice CPU in it. Nope, just logic. > There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That is an other > issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you have to make the > emulation good enough for all operating systems. It may work for a > RK611, but what about a UDA50 with its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler > that has a T11 with some non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick > this in a (cheap, small) FPGA. Well, since I wrote the SimH driver for RK611 (the "hk" driver), I can safely say that emulating this is simple, if the design is microcontroller based. Since we have been bithin' and such about this since forever, why not define a board spec? The Unibus transceivers is indeed an issue- we dont have heaps of those laying around. On the other hand, their exact function and specs are known (see the Peripherals handbook, 1972-ish or so), and we should be able to re-implement them in discrete logic, or bite the bullet and do a pin-compatible replacement, and have 1,000 made. The board itself (not a funny thing, just large) could be a general microcontroller design, with the basic stuff (uNibus interfacing, CSR, BR and such logic) being standard, including a general flash-programmable microcrontroller setup (CPU, RAM, FLASHROM, I/O). The rest is "up to the function", for example an IDE controller with 2.5" laptop drive, CF sockets, or what not. --f From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 05:37:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: HPIB disks (was Re: IDEA - Collector interest database) In-Reply-To: <200405130505.BAA28599@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <200405122022.QAA16874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040512225853.GA4995@bos7.spole.gov> <200405122357.TAA17767@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513003925.GA24326@mapo1.spole.gov> <200405130159.VAA18289@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040513043831.GA20658@bos7.spole.gov> <200405130505.BAA28599@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513103700.GA24799@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:02:41AM -0400, der Mouse wrote: > Ah! I misunderstood. ("When I regained consciousness...." :) Fair enough... > I should poke around and see if I have any other drives with that > interface (what is it, ESDI?). Off the top of my head, I forget what interfaces the 1325, 1335 and 1355 have (I have all of them on the shelf), but yes... find out what the 1355 looks like, and and see what else is like it. > If I have any _largeish_ such drives > (FVO "largeish" of about "more than about ?G") I'd be extremely tempted > to hook one up and see if it works. I have some 1.2GB ESDI drives on an SDI card... they got quite large. > I also should dig out that SBus IEEE488 card and see if I can scare up > any doc on it. I should be so lucky to have an Sbus GPIB card... I do have a couple of ISA cards (and a couple of Qbus cards), but that's it... if I ever end up manufacturing a D9060/D9090-compatitible, it will be with a home-brew machine, perhaps 68000-based (since I have $40K MSRP worth of debugging/development tools). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 10:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.9 F (-56.6 C) Windchill -129.2 F (-89.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14 kts Grid 032 Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 05:58:22 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513105822.GA8726@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:31:25AM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > > slice CPU in it. > Nope, just logic. The RK611, but not a UDA50 or anything else that is "smart". When I go through the work of designing a UniBus board, I would put enough on it to run NetBSD on the controller. The UniBus attachment should be implemented in a FPGA to have maximum flexibility in the hardware. Software on top of this should be a NetBSD kernel driver, perhaps with a userland daemon to support the kernel driver and control it. It would be possible to emulate any UniBus device, including a PDP-11, VAX, PDP-10, ... CPU. Unfortunately I don't have the experience nor the resources to build a board like this. "Hey, I can telnet / slogin to the disk controler of my PDP-11!" That would be expensive, but you can do _anything_ with it. So you can use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in higher production volume and lower cost. I know that a list member was designing a board like this. I don't know how far he got. But my offer is still valid: Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. > The Unibus transceivers is indeed an issue- we dont have heaps of > those laying around. On the other hand, their exact function and > specs are known (see the Peripherals handbook, 1972-ish or so), > and we should be able to re-implement them in discrete logic, > or bite the bullet and do a pin-compatible replacement, and > have 1,000 made. A re-implementation in discrete logic was my thought too. Depending how it fits it may be possible to build a UniBus / QBus combi-board that could be used in both busses depending on jumper settings. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 13 08:11:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: OOPS! was: Re: Forward from the Computer Collector's List Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040513091105.008c8950@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just found out that the original message from Brian came from his site at and not from this list. So if my message appeared out of the blue then that's why. I expect that many of you are also on Brian's mail list. If you're not, you should consider joining (use the link above). Joe FYI I went over and visited Ed today and bought the o'scope. He has a nice old IBM PC XT if anyone is interested in one. He's the original owner and thinks that he still has the original reciepts, etc for it. He bought it WITHOUT a hard drive! It still has the two original HH floppy drives with the * on them. He's installed a hard card and a 3 1/2" floppy drive. It still has the original floppy drive controller in it. I think he has all or most of the other original cards for it. He has several different video cards for it including a Paradise CGA card that can drive a monochrome monitor. He has a Amber Amdek monitor for it and I think he also has a VGA monitor and video card for it. The machine is in very good condition. If anyone wants a good original IBM computer they should give him a call. Joe At 07:09 PM 5/10/04 -0400, Brain wrote: > >This came in today for anyone in the southeast US. Doesn't sound that >collectible but who knows. > >Brian > >>From: "Ed Elkes" >>To: >>Subject: Lost enthusiasm >>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:16:04 -0400 >> >> >>I never thought I'd say this, but I've lost my enthusiasm for keeping the >>old machines running. Original IBM PC-XT, Compaq 386-33, ALR Pentium-133. >>Just not in the mood, anymore, I guess. >> >>I'm looking for anyone who is looking for, not only these PC's, but scads >>of >>boards, SCSI controllers and drives, server cases, Netware manuals, RAM, >>etc. I've held on to enough parts to rebuild these machines several times, >>and now I would like to find someone who needs or can use them for their >>own >>hobby machines. These machines all ran on my Netware network, which also >>has gone away. >> >>I've placed a list of what I've sorted out, so far, on my Web page, so you >>can see what there is and see if you, or anyone you know, might be >>interested. The list will be updated as items have sold and more items >>have >>been added. I'm not through uncovering stuff. Everything is IBM PC-based, >>8 and 16 bit. I never followed Apple or the earlier kit brands, although I >>did have a few. >> >>The Web page is www.geocities.com/ed_9213. More detailed info for the >>above >>computers is listed there, as well as the miscellaneous items. Like, where >>would you still find an 8-bit multi I/O card with 2FD 1S 1P 1G & clock, or >>a >>B/W VGA monitor? How about PC DOS 2.1, or a hard drive controller that will >>handle 8 IDE drives at once? Just a sample. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Ed Elkes >>Lake Mary, Florida (Orlando Area) >>ed9213@cfl.rr.com >> From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 08:38:05 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <16547.31293.577531.116567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Kunz writes: Jochen> On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:30:49 +0100 Frank Arnold Jochen> wrote: >> A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it >> be a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? >> That would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with >> nothing else attached to it. Jochen> Sure. But who will fab the big, odd-shaped UniBus boards? Do Jochen> you have enough UniBus transceiver chips in stock? Transceiver chips might be an issue. The board doesn't have to be all that big -- quad size is enough. >> If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it >> be to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a >> (better four) CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would >> become a RK07+ media... Jochen> Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting Jochen> idea. - If you can get complete shematics and there are no Jochen> funky things like an AMD bit slice CPU in it. All the disk controllers before the MSCP family are hardwired logic (except maybe the RL01, I'm not sure about that one -- and ignoring screwball stuff like the Pro disk controllers). So none of them should be all that hard. If you want to emulate an old disk controller, the RH11 family might be better, since those are larger disks, so you can put larger flash cards to good use. >> If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver >> issues, Jochen> There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That Jochen> is an other issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you Jochen> have to make the emulation good enough for all operating Jochen> systems. It may work for a RK611, but what about a UDA50 with Jochen> its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler that has a T11 with some Jochen> non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick this in a (cheap, Jochen> small) FPGA. The UDA doesn't have a T11 in it. What it has is about 200 words of microcode that implement a small instruction set that looks a lot like a stripped-down simplified PDP11 instruction set. But it isn't a PDP11 instruction set and it isn't done with a PDP11. The 2901/2910 is a pretty simple beast; it would be easy enough to put that in an FPGA, I'd think. The real issue is that you'd have a hard time finding the UDA firmware. Then again, if you wanted to emulate an MSCP controller, you don't need to emulate the structure of the controller, you only need to emulate the command interface. That is certainly doable. (It's been done before -- consider the various PDP11 emulators.) paul From tandem at comcast.net Wed May 12 18:37:08 2004 From: tandem at comcast.net (tandem) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale Message-ID: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> I'm in the process of putting together a list of what I've got for sale. I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. I'll get back with the list soon. tm ----- Original Message ----- From: tandem To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:13 PM Subject: PDP8s for sale I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. Is there a good place to list them? tm From allain at panix.com Thu May 13 09:06:16 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: Message-ID: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > http://marketplace.vintage.org ^^^^^^^^^^^ BTW I like the VCM.* Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on the list checks it out at least once a month. John A. * a freeze-dried sentence From pcw at mesanet.com Thu May 13 09:07:10 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:30:49 +0100 > Frank Arnold wrote: > > > A solid state disc would be a great solution, however, wouldn't it be > > a better (more general) aproach to work right off the unibus? That > > would help anyone that -like me- has a unibus-cpu with nothing else > > attached to it. > Sure. But who will fab the big, odd-shaped UniBus boards? Do you have > enough UniBus transceiver chips in stock? You could do a very short (2 inches?) card to save PCB costs > > > If you have (?) the scematics of the RK611, how much work would it be > > to put this into a fpga-design and add connect this to a (better four) > > CF-card socket(s) Then a cheap 32mb CF card would become a RK07+ > > media... > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > slice CPU in it. > > > If you follow the RK611-design, there is no bothering about driver > > issues, > There isn't one if I use the original RK611 controler. That is an other > issue: If you emulate the entire controler, you have to make the > emulation good enough for all operating systems. It may work for a > RK611, but what about a UDA50 with its AMD bit slice CPU or a controler > that has a T11 with some non-trivial firmware on it. You can't stick > this in a (cheap, small) FPGA. Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about 27K bytes of block RAM that can be used as RAM or ROM, and you could fit at least a couple of 100 MHz 16 bit CPUs inside plus whatever other hardware was required. It would require level shifters for the bus however. > > > A project like this would be a perfect entry for the VCFE of next > > year, isn't it? (Hurry up, only 50 weeks left! :-)) ) > Yes, that is where the idea for this project was born. :-) > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From pcw at mesanet.com Thu May 13 09:25:20 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513105822.GA8726@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:31:25AM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Hmmm. Replicating the RK611 in an FPGA is an interresting idea. - If you > > > can get complete shematics and there are no funky things like an AMD bit > > > slice CPU in it. > > Nope, just logic. > The RK611, but not a UDA50 or anything else that is "smart". > > When I go through the work of designing a UniBus board, I would put > enough on it to run NetBSD on the controller. The UniBus attachment > should be implemented in a FPGA to have maximum flexibility in the > hardware. Software on top of this should be a NetBSD kernel driver, > perhaps with a userland daemon to support the kernel driver and control > it. It would be possible to emulate any UniBus device, including a > PDP-11, VAX, PDP-10, ... CPU. Unfortunately I don't have the experience > nor the resources to build a board like this. > > "Hey, I can telnet / slogin to the disk controler of my PDP-11!" > > That would be expensive, but you can do _anything_ with it. So you can > use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in higher > production volume and lower cost. I know that a list member was > designing a board like this. I don't know how far he got. But my offer > is still valid: Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. Thats a dangerous offer... I may not be that expensive nowadays. A MIPS or ARM SOC with PCI for I/O expansion and Built in Ethernet, SDRAM support and simple I/O bus are available for between $15 and $30. The bus interface FPGA is really simple and probably in the $10-15 region. PCI is nice as it makes it easy to add MiniPCI slot for wireless, USB, IDE, SCSI etc. CPUs without PCI are even cheaper. > > > The Unibus transceivers is indeed an issue- we dont have heaps of > > those laying around. On the other hand, their exact function and > > specs are known (see the Peripherals handbook, 1972-ish or so), > > and we should be able to re-implement them in discrete logic, > > or bite the bullet and do a pin-compatible replacement, and > > have 1,000 made. > A re-implementation in discrete logic was my thought too. Depending how > it fits it may be possible to build a UniBus / QBus combi-board that > could be used in both busses depending on jumper settings. > -- Discrete mosfets with RC at the gates (say sot23 if surface mount) would give you all the drive you needed without excessive edge rates. The input side could be done with Schmitt trigger CMOS parts or even quad comparators if you wanted to get fancy about input threshold... > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 09:30:40 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: FS: DEC 3000/400 & Sun Ultra 1 170E Message-ID: <40A38690.4050507@sbcglobal.net> Located in New Haven, CT area - 06517. Pick up only. I don't want to break up either system. Make me an offer by 5/21/2004 DEC 3000/400 2 mice keyboard 17" color monitor (or is it 19?) CD-ROM 2 GB HDD 64 MB RAM Sun Ultra 1 1 optical mouse w/special pad 1 ball mouse 2 keyboards 17" color monitor external CD-ROM 2 1 GB HDDs maybe a 4 GB also... floppy disk 128 MB RAM Creator 3D video card -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 13 09:46:14 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002f01c438f9$1c7bbce0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > BTW I like the VCM.* > Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show > and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a > surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on > the list checks it out at least once a month. > > John A. > * a freeze-dried sentence > All of the material doesn't have to be on the same site to be searchable, I don't think. Can't you setup a Google app to search only what site/sites you want and then continually edit that list? I don't mean the Google main search site, I mean the one you can install on your own site. That way you'd have this massive database similar to the web itself but using only sites that pertain to vintage computing. Dead links would be reported somehow or a spider could check the base sites on a regular basis. bm From allain at panix.com Thu May 13 09:53:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've had this site up for more than a year now. It's kinda lame, I > know, but it's an attempt anyway. > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm I like the simplicity of this. Kind of like the bulletin board where everybody posts their business card. The links to individual sites are there... so this could be an index to a webring, and each individual could decide how much information to put there, and how to do it. That would also create a compete and evolve system that may be a good motivational tool. - - - On the subject of databases. I think they're too "Robot friendly" and that may be more an opportunity for the unfriendly than the friendly. Look how neat eMail and NewsGroups were for years, and then people got the spark of an idea for spam. Right now I get 300 spams a day, and that costs a lot of time. I think if you list out your whole collection to a database that creates an opportunity for some kind of unfriendly approaches, I don't think I'll know what exactly they'll be until they're a problem. BTW I have a personal collection database on my computer and even though I know SQL and Excel I kept it flatfile, since the needs differ between systems and parts, between manuals and boards, etc. Different things fit different spots. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 09:56:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at > first) an apple IIC+ > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial > Gems" > "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... Blow-Up Dolls Oatmeal Prophylactics Manure Sex Toys Power Cords Lint Shredded Paper Discarded Tinfoil Dust Paper Clips Slinkies Cat 5 Cables Bras and Panties Bubble Wrap Printer Toner PostIt Notes Jello Whip Cream Leather Whips Mushrooms Lahsa Apsos Holy Hand Grenades Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu May 13 10:06:08 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: OT: RE: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405131101468.SM02384@bobdev> > Blow-Up Dolls > Oatmeal > Prophylactics > Manure > Sex Toys > Power Cords > Lint > Shredded Paper > Discarded Tinfoil > Dust > Paper Clips > Slinkies > Cat 5 Cables > Bras and Panties > Bubble Wrap > Printer Toner > PostIt Notes > Jello > Whip Cream > Leather Whips > Mushrooms > Lahsa Apsos > Holy Hand Grenades > Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) My guess is for Mushrooms :) From allain at panix.com Thu May 13 10:10:11 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1><000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody have one spare or a link to seller? TIA / IAO / PAM John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu May 13 10:14:39 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad In-Reply-To: <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513101337.0357a150@mail.ubanproductions.com> For the Sun style mice, there are a number of different sized grids, which must be matched with the particular mouse. What type of mouse do you have? --tom At 11:10 AM 5/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Anybody have one spare or a link to seller? > >TIA / IAO / PAM >John A. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu May 13 10:20:54 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 13, 04 07:56:07 am Message-ID: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at > > first) an apple IIC+ > > > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > > > stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial > > Gems" > > "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) > > > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) Hamster Pelts Synthol Canned Sunshine Unobtanium ;) Hydrogen Hydroxide Round Tuits Apple I's Nano Planets Spam Cheers, Bryan From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 13 10:35:31 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... Message-ID: >Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) The sex toys? -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 13 10:59:51 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... References: Message-ID: <40A39B77.7000104@jetnet.ab.ca> Ron Hudson wrote: > > Ok, perhaps this is on-topic because I am writing a program for (at > first) an apple IIC+ > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > stuff like "Military Electronics", "Computer Software" , "Industrial Gems" > "Metal Ore","Dangerous Plants" (what? man eating?) > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > Mine stops at Orion Slave Girls. Need you name all the cargo, since you need to name only the cargo classes? Industrial gems could have several types. 1) common gems. 2) Rare gems 3) Exotic gems 4) black market 5) Special. Ben. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu May 13 11:15:04 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) Message-ID: There are many areas of "collectors" that can't give up any parts of their collections. My grandfather had an old corn crib that was full of partial parts and containers of stuff from the orchard and farm. There were tractor parts, mower parts, sprayer parts, wagon parts, and picking bags. You could not just drive to the store for a part when something failed. After he died I looked through it, saved some unique items and it was an education of how farming used to be versus what it is today. I don't think he thought he was a collector just a farmer. Currently I have neighbors who are sailors and their back lots are a collection of boat parts. I have seen more hasty repairs from the collections. The local community would like to clean up "junk" however one person's junk is another's treasure. It's probably related to availability, if you have a broken boat and need a part then the closest part is the best. Then there are the car people! I don't know enough to comment. You have never seen stuff until you meet some "horse people", they have more tack, ribbons and stuff than most. I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't eat, and need veterinarians. This weekend is a general community cleanup and I'm keeping my eyes open for any neat computer stuff. Last year I got an HP 7550 pen plotter from the dumpster. Of course I will have to negotiate with my wife. Mike From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 11:15:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, chris wrote: > >Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) > > The sex toys? I don't know about you, but where I'm at, you never know when an orgy will break out in your office. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 13 11:21:56 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... Message-ID: >> >Some of this is inspired by stuff around my office (guess which ones :) >> >> The sex toys? > >I don't know about you, but where I'm at, you never know when an orgy will >break out in your office. Oh for the love of god. You just put that image in my head... and with the people I work with, I am now heating my soldering iron so I can jam it into my ear and forever remove that thought! Thanks for ruining my lunch break! -chris From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:19:11 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513181911.173d13fc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:10 -0700 (PDT) "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about 27K bytes of block > RAM that can be used as RAM or ROM, and you could fit at least a > couple of 100 MHz 16 bit CPUs inside plus whatever other hardware was > required. Interresting. But can I get a PowerPC CPU + FPU + SDRAM interface in that? An other interresting Question: Are there free developement tools for the FPGAs available? I have no PeeCee and I refuse to tuch M$ Bloat+Bugware. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:12:47 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16547.31293.577531.116567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200405121814.i4CIEWhf070030@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <16547.31293.577531.116567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040513181247.2387b755.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:38:05 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > The board doesn't have to be all > that big -- quad size is enough. This is big. > All the disk controllers before the MSCP family are hardwired logic > (except maybe the RL01, I'm not sure about that one -- and ignoring > screwball stuff like the Pro disk controllers). So none of them > should be all that hard. If you count a bit slice CPU as hardwired logic. ;-) > If you want to emulate an old disk controller, the RH11 family might > be better, since those are larger disks, so you can put larger flash > cards to good use. As already said: If UniBus then general solution that is able to emulate whatever you want. > The UDA doesn't have a T11 in it. I know. But the RQDX3 has one. If we are doing UniBus we should also take care of the QBus. They are similar enough to be supported bouth. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:07:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513105822.GA8726@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513180736.680cff2f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. > Thats a dangerous offer... I have experience in porting NetBSD to new hardware platforms. If it is an already supported CPU the work is not that hard. > I may not be that expensive nowadays. A MIPS or ARM SOC with PCI for > I/O expansion [...] I would prefer some PowerPC based stuff. I don't know about the embedded MIPS chips, but I know how fast a StrongARM or Xscale is and that a (quite old) 300 MHz PPC604e is much faster. PowerPC is very well supported in NetBSD and GCC[1]. It is continuously improved thanks to the macppc users. Maybe it is posible to use an already existing evaluation board and interface it to the UniBus... > CPUs without PCI are even cheaper. I would not use non-PCI devices. If all I/O beside the UniBus hangs of PCI, all you need is a machine dependent PCI backend in NetBSD to give you acces to all PCI devices already supported by NetBSD. That way you need only to implement a single driver for the PCI bus, not one for every device on your board. > Discrete mosfets with RC at the gates (say sot23 if surface mount) > would give you all the drive you needed without excessive edge rates. > The input side could be done with Schmitt trigger CMOS parts or even > quad comparators if you wanted to get fancy about input threshold... Well, when you say. Discrete analog stuff is not my territory. ;-) [1] GCC likes to generate sub-optimal code for "non mainstream RISC" CPUs and you have to be prepared for compiler bugs on "non mainstream CPUs". -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brad at heeltoe.com Thu May 13 11:35:25 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 07:25:20 PDT." Message-ID: <200405131635.i4DGZPW09917@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: ... >> use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in higher >> production volume and lower cost. I know that a list member was >> designing a board like this. I don't know how far he got. But my offer I'm designing a simple board with a PIC cpu and a CPLD which should be able to emulate virtually any disk controller (given software). I have found about 100 of the unibus drivers on the secondary market. The idea is that the cpld holds a register set which the PIC and unibus can read/write and the PIC can be a bus master to read/write unibus memory. A serial port will allow the firmware in the pic to be updated to allow one to change controllers. An IDE interface for a true ide disk or CF card is on other side. My goal is to start with something simple like an RL02 interface. I may go on to do something like the UDA50. This is mostly because I have an RL02 and UDA50 controller. I'm still on paper, so I may substitue one of the cool philips ARM cpu's which have built in flash and ram, mostly because I could then write the emulation code in C. It depends on the speeds I need. I have not done the unibus hdl code yet, and that will drive the timing of the cpu. Initially I want the device to be able to run in "stupid ide mode" by programming the cpld as a pass through and exposing the ide registers directly on the unibus. This way the device can be useful right away and gradually get more sophisticated as more software is written. If I do it right the cpu should be able to reprogram the cpld so everything can be field programmed. the real problem is that my day gig keeps getting in the way of my fun :-) I hope to have a prototype this summer - I'll certainly publish everything and take orders if anyone wants one :-) -brad From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 11:46:58 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513095939.58034829.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513184658.0ecbb88e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:10 -0700 (PDT) "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about Other idea: By a generic PCI I/O card with FPGA that you can stick into any arbitrary PCI based machine, build QBus and UniBus glue for it and that's it. I'll write a NetBSD driver for it. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pcw at mesanet.com Thu May 13 11:49:58 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513180736.680cff2f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) > "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > > > Give me hardware and I'll care about the NetBSD port. > > Thats a dangerous offer... > I have experience in porting NetBSD to new hardware platforms. If it is > an already supported CPU the work is not that hard. > > > I may not be that expensive nowadays. A MIPS or ARM SOC with PCI for > > I/O expansion [...] > I would prefer some PowerPC based stuff. I don't know about the embedded > MIPS chips, but I know how fast a StrongARM or Xscale is and that a > (quite old) 300 MHz PPC604e is much faster. PowerPC is very well > supported in NetBSD and GCC[1]. It is continuously improved thanks to > the macppc users. Then the Motorola 5200 might be about right... maybe overkill (400 or so MHz) but its still pretty cheap > > Maybe it is posible to use an already existing evaluation board and > interface it to the UniBus... > > > CPUs without PCI are even cheaper. > I would not use non-PCI devices. If all I/O beside the UniBus hangs of > PCI, all you need is a machine dependent PCI backend in NetBSD to give > you acces to all PCI devices already supported by NetBSD. That way you > need only to implement a single driver for the PCI bus, not one for > every device on your board. Right, > > > Discrete mosfets with RC at the gates (say sot23 if surface mount) > > would give you all the drive you needed without excessive edge rates. > > The input side could be done with Schmitt trigger CMOS parts or even > > quad comparators if you wanted to get fancy about input threshold... > Well, when you say. Discrete analog stuff is not my territory. ;-) > > [1] GCC likes to generate sub-optimal code for "non mainstream RISC" > CPUs and you have to be prepared for compiler bugs on "non mainstream > CPUs". > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 11:57:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:30 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405131635.i4DGZPW09917@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: ... >>> use the board for a wide range of applications, resulting in >>> higher production volume and lower cost. I know that a list >>> member was designing a board like this. I don't know how far he >>> got. But my offer Brad> I'm designing a simple board with a PIC cpu and a CPLD which Brad> should be able to emulate virtually any disk controller (given Brad> software). Brad> The idea is that the cpld holds a register set which the PIC Brad> and unibus can read/write and the PIC can be a bus master to Brad> read/write unibus memory. That should do the job just fine for MSCP (except that this may be too large a job for a PIC). For older disk controllers, this approach is likely to be hard because touching CSRs causes actions to take place, and often actions are tied to bits, not just to the whole CSR. You may be able to emulate that in software, but it's likely to be tricky because your CPLD will have to be more than just a register file. I'd say that anything that was originally done as a microprocessor plus register file would be no problem. That means (T)MSCP devices, the DMC/DMR/DMP/DMV11 series comm controllers, the KMC11, and the Pro hard drive controller. But if it started out as hard logic, a microprocessor emulation wouldn't be as easy. That's why the programming interface style changed quite drastically when microprocessor control became interesting. paul From mtapley at swri.edu Thu May 13 12:33:51 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Apple mouse In-Reply-To: <200405122343.i4CNhThc073846@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405122343.i4CNhThc073846@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: My 512K Mac has the squarer connector (although the Mac itself has been upgraded to a Plus). But I don't think it has the little Mouse icon on the connector - I'll have to check that. I could also check mouse serial number, etc. if it will help. Not sure I still have serial number for the computer, as that may have gone with the original back part of the housing. At 18:43 -0500 5/12/04, Marvin Johnston wrote: >Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:56:46 -0700 >From: Marvin Johnston >Subject: Re: Apple mouse > > >Michael Fincham wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know when the change took place from the squarish to the >> > rounded end on the early Apple Macintosh mice 9 pin connector? >> > >> >> I believe the Mac Plus was the last model to have the D-SUB 9 for its mouse. > >The original Mac 128 had the 9 pin connector but it had a square shape >as opposed to the later connectors. You can see the difference in this >photo: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ap-mouse.jpg. The connector at the >right is the original Mac 128K and the one on the left is a later >version. My question is how much later :). > -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 12:33:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513101337.0357a150@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513101337.0357a150@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405131735.NAA01598@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Anybody have one [optical mouse pad] spare or a link to seller? > For the Sun style mice, there are a number of different sized grids, > which must be matched with the particular mouse. That doesn't match my experience; what I find is that the grid on the pad must be no finer than the grid the mouse is designed for - but may be coarser without harm. > What type of mouse do you have? Yes, that was my first question too: "an optical pad for what kind of mouse?". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Thu May 13 12:54:38 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002e01c43913$5c26b920$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > On the subject of databases. I think they're too "Robot > friendly" and that may be more an opportunity for the > unfriendly than the friendly. Look how neat eMail and > NewsGroups were for years, and then people got the spark of > an idea for spam. Right now I get 300 spams a day, and that > costs a lot of time. I think if you list out your whole > collection to a database that > creates an opportunity for some kind of unfriendly > approaches, I don't think I'll know what exactly they'll be > until they're a problem. John, this is exactly why we held back on the collections directory in VCM, why email addresses are not exposed anywhere on the interface, and why many "bulk" transactions like looking at the entire list of items or the wanted list requires you to log in as a registered user first. I would have to say, we are "robot wary." :-) Ashley said: > Is there a way to see a list of all the registered > members and their interests? What I'd like to do > is produce a list of all registered users who are > interested in PDP-11's, for example. It would be easy to provide this since the data is all there, the real question is, what will you do with that info? The use you have in mind may be strictly honorable, but not everyone plays by the same rule book and moral standards. Sadly, the honor system doesn't work these days. Even right now on VCM, we have member-to-member "spam" in the form of low-ball offers on listed items and shall we say "un-sportsman-like" commentary in reply to refusals. I imagine that would increase dramatically if one could see everything someone had, not just what they had for sale. We don't want to be in the role of "spam cop", handling complaints, reviewing emails and passing judgement, and handing out sentences to members. That's a big concern for us. It also wouldn't take a lot of that activity to irritate people, and then they'd mark their collections private, and after enough of that, the feature loses its value anyway. I don't want to say we're not open to the idea. We're are going to try it. To paraphrase John's comment, we wont' really know if this is a problem, or what the real problem is if any at all, until we get there. And thanks to all of you who are supporting this project. Traffic is way up and some really interesting things are posted, and it's a great reward for us to see people buying and selling every day. Patrick From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 12:43:01 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... Depending on things such as time-in-transit and environment provided by the ships, some of these may not work, but here are some ideas. Of course, you can also invent things; much sf includes invented foods, animals, devices, etc, that you can steal names from. Various foods (wheat, millet, barley, apples, onions, ...) Various metals (gold, tin, lead, iron, copper, ...) Other materials (wood, glass, granite, slate, paper, ...) Jewelry (bracelets, necklaces, rings, ...) Books (textbooks, sf, pr0n, mystery, biography, ...) Power tools (drill press, lathe, welder, grinder, riveter, (handheld) power drill, (handheld) power saw, ...) Hand tools (chisels, hammers, screwdrivers, pliers, boltcutters, taps, dies, wrenches, saws, files, ...) Paint (subclassify by type (eg, latex, enamel) and colour) Films (any movie listing will give you lots of subcategories here) House furnishings (carpets, Venetian blinds, chairs, tables, wallpaper, linoleum, table lamps, ...) Office furnishings (chairs, filing cabinets, desks, ...) Vehicles (cars, bicycles, roller skates, rocket sleds, hovercraft, ...) Animals (in particular, eels for the hovercraft :) Animal products (pelts/teeth/horns/etc of various animals, treated products like things made of leather or ivory) Liquids (water, heavy water, various oils - any chemistry reference will have lots of liquids) Other chemicals (I liked the hydrogen hydroxide suggestion someone made; again, any chemistry reference has lots of names) Electronics (consumer, industrial, computer - can subclassify in more detail if you want) Mail (perhaps subclassify by priority?) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From musicman38 at comcast.net Thu May 13 13:05:51 2004 From: musicman38 at comcast.net (Musicman38) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: [OT] ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase References: Message-ID: <002a01c43914$ed55f860$1e00a8c0@philxp> Thanks Fred.. I Apperciate your answer, even though this is off topic as Pat pointed out. Just thought there were some pretty knowledgeble people here that could give some input on my find, and know way more than I about Thin Clients. Although I guess these do not classify as "Classic or Unique", I'm still having fun with them (Grin) I did find on eBay some more TC-5000 Thin Clients with RDP 5.1 installed. At $40 each a little pricey just to play and learn on, but I'm in to deep now to quit.. Telnet to Unix and Linux is a big plus also... Thanks again.. ~Phil <:))))><< ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:38 AM Subject: Re: ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Musicman38 wrote: > > > I couldn't help myself and purchase a pair of TC-500 Thin Client Terminals. > > 233Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM, 2-Serial, LAN, and VGA. > > Running Windows CE.. > Nice! I use a few of those (not the same brand, but thin clients) > and its nice and quiet :) > > > Question: > > (1) Is it even worth my buying the Citrix Metaframe software to run on my > > Windows Server ? > No. > > > (2) Would it be better to upgrade the Internal ROM to the newer version > > ($50) that has ICA, Plus RDP 5.1 ? > Yes. That should also get you Telnet, so you can connect to > UNIX and VMS hosts in text mode. > > Cheers, > > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 13:19:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: [OT] ANT TC-5000 Thin Client Terminal Purchase In-Reply-To: <002a01c43914$ed55f860$1e00a8c0@philxp> Message-ID: > I Apperciate your answer, even though this is off topic as Pat pointed out. > Just thought there were some pretty knowledgeble people here that could give > some input on my find, > and know way more than I about Thin Clients. > Although I guess these do not classify as "Classic or Unique", I'm still > having fun with them (Grin) Well, I use "offtopic" Xterms to talk to "ontopic" systems, so, as a whole, they're ontopic, I figure ;-) > I did find on eBay some more TC-5000 Thin Clients with RDP 5.1 installed. > At $40 each a little pricey just to play and learn on, but I'm in to deep > now to quit.. Hmm, $40 is a good price for em... I paid more like $80-100 for mine. --f From brad at heeltoe.com Thu May 13 13:27:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 12:57:52 EDT." <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405131827.i4DIRNQ11338@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: > >That should do the job just fine for MSCP (except that this may be too >large a job for a PIC). For older disk controllers, this approach is >likely to be hard because touching CSRs causes actions to take place, >and often actions are tied to bits, not just to the whole CSR. You >may be able to emulate that in software, but it's likely to be tricky >because your CPLD will have to be more than just a register file. well, yes, cpld need to notice when a register is written from the unibus and potentially interrupt the cpu. there are certainly some interlocking issues to keep the two cpu's in sync. no reason why the cpld can't do this on bit by bit basis... >I'd say that anything that was originally done as a microprocessor >plus register file would be no problem. That means (T)MSCP devices, >the DMC/DMR/DMP/DMV11 series comm controllers, the KMC11, and the Pro >hard drive controller. But if it started out as hard logic, a >microprocessor emulation wouldn't be as easy. That's why the >programming interface style changed quite drastically when >microprocessor control became interesting. roger. -brad From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 13:22:51 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <8B7794F1-A50A-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 13, 2004, at 10:43 AM, der Mouse wrote: >> I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > >> My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > > Depending on things such as time-in-transit and environment provided by > the ships, some of these may not work, but here are some ideas. Of > course, you can also invent things; much sf includes invented foods, > animals, devices, etc, that you can steal names from. > > Various foods (wheat, millet, barley, apples, onions, ...) Hmm perhaps I should add a "perisbable" value (weeks until spoiled) > Mail (perhaps subclassify by priority?) > Mail... interesting... My game also has passengers, if you have one or more passenger modules I would probably use the larger catagory.. "foodstuffs" for example Planets ban random items too, and you stand a small chance of being "inspected" - if so your banned items will be confiscated, you may be allowed to pay a "fine" instead though Or pehaps you may be offered "Inspection Insurance" on landing? From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 13:38:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > > Depending on things such as time-in-transit and environment provided by > the ships, some of these may not work, but here are some ideas. Of > course, you can also invent things; much sf includes invented foods, > animals, devices, etc, that you can steal names from. How about giving the cargo a vintage computer theme? Microprocessors RAM EPROMs Diskettes 9-track tapes Bubble Memory Modules Disc packs Punch cards Paper tape rolls Front panel switches etc. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 13:40:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <8B7794F1-A50A-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Planets ban random items too, and you stand a small chance of being > "inspected" - if so your banned items will be confiscated, you may > be allowed to pay a "fine" instead though In the games I've played you lose your cargo AND get fined. > Or pehaps you may be offered "Inspection Insurance" on landing? You mean a bribe? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 13:46:14 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200405131827.i4DIRNQ11338@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16547.49782.92433.486926@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Paul Koning wrote: >> That should do the job just fine for MSCP (except that this may be >> too large a job for a PIC). For older disk controllers, this >> approach is likely to be hard because touching CSRs causes actions >> to take place, and often actions are tied to bits, not just to the >> whole CSR. You may be able to emulate that in software, but it's >> likely to be tricky because your CPLD will have to be more than >> just a register file. Brad> well, yes, cpld need to notice when a register is written from Brad> the unibus and potentially interrupt the cpu. Brad> there are certainly some interlocking issues to keep the two Brad> cpu's in sync. Brad> no reason why the cpld can't do this on bit by bit basis... It's worse than that in some cases. For example, if you have mixed read/write and read-only bits, if you write the CSR and then read it, you want to read the correct read-only status values. If you try to fake this by having a microprocessor restore those bits after being interrupted by the CPLD, the read may get there first. Similarly, the values you see in one register may change depending on what's in another register. An example is the drive status, which reflects the currently selected drive (in a number of disk controllers). Again, a software emulation may not get there in time. You might try to cheat by holding off SSYN on the Unibus read until any pending CSR fixups are done, but then the microcontroller has a rather tight time limit (20 microseconds or so). paul From torquil at chemist.com Thu May 13 14:09:32 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: Message-ID: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> > You have never seen stuff until you meet some "horse people", they have > more tack, ribbons and stuff than most. They have tack, we have boxes and boxes of random cards/drives. They have ribbons, we have ribbon cables. I've found that in every 'hobby', no matter how inexpensive it seems, there is always a way to make it really expensive. (Like my astronomy hobby, I figured I'd just look at random stars for free.... but I want to look at dimmer stars, so I need more size and aperture, then I don't feel like pushing it around so I have to build some kind of computer control for it. If a hobby is 'cheap', you are not into it enough. :) > I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't > eat, and need veterinarians. Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, whereas horses require none (... YET ;)) -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 13 14:23:52 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > > I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't > > eat, and need veterinarians. > > Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, whereas > horses require none (... YET ;)) And dont forget all the beer and snacks you need to get your friends in order for them to come over and (help you) fix the damn things..! --f From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 13:16:50 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200405131635.i4DGZPW09917@mwave.heeltoe.com> <16547.43280.463779.526621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040513201650.6c3f2a1f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 12:57:52 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > Brad> The idea is that the cpld holds a register set which the PIC > Brad> and unibus can read/write [...] > For older disk controllers, this approach is likely to be hard because > touching CSRs causes actions to take place, Programm and wire the CPLD so that it generates an interrupt to the PIC when the register file is touched. Issue a vector along with the interrupt that tels the PIC which CSR was touched. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu May 13 12:43:55 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad In-Reply-To: <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home> <00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040513194355.614e1a8a.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 11:10:11 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > Anybody have one spare or a link to seller? Draw a grid, print it with a 600 dpi laser printer on transparent foil, mount it on a alu tin sheet. (Or make a sandwich transparent foil, alu foil, printed transparent foil) This worked well for my type 4 und 5 Sun optical rodents. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 13 14:41:52 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) Message-ID: >And dont forget all the beer and snacks you need to get your friends >in order for them to come over and (help you) fix the damn things..! I guess the amount of beer and snacks depends on which "things" they are helping you fix. I'd think it will take more beer to get them to help you fix the horse. :-) -chris From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Thu May 13 14:47:20 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard Message-ID: <40A3D0C8.2010009@wavecable.com> I'm looking for a manual and other info on this old 386 motherboard that I am trying to build into a working DOS 6.22/WfW 3.11 system for playing old games and to play around with DOS TCP/IP networking. The board, according to the BIOS string, is from Wintac-Edom (The BIOS string is: E0X3-1379-083090-K0 Beyond that, I can't seem to find any other info on this, as there are no other identifying markings that I can find. Here's a pic of the board... http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GKW-Edom-MB-0.JPG Anyway, I currently have it set up with a VGA card, a 16-bit MIO card, Adaptec AHA 1542CF SCSI adapter, Databook PCMCIA card reader, PnP Soundblaster, 3Com EtherLink III 3c509 NIC, SCSI CD-ROM drive, 210MB Hard drive as the master drive, 1.5GB hard drive set as slave (will put EZ-BIOS on it shortly to make it useable on this old board), 386/DX-25 (or 33, I don't remember at the moment which) CPU, and 8MB of RAM in the form of 8 1MB 30 Pin SIMMs). So, when I boot up, she goes through the memory test, then the SCSI card does its self-test. After that, I get an error about the hard drive (this is because I haven't set either drive up yet), and am given the option to hit F1 to go to setup. Well, when I go into BIOS setup, everything freezes on me, no response at all from the keyboard, and all I can do is hit reset or power down. Odd thing is, though; I can boot up with a DOS floppy and access the C drive just fine, though the D drive is not yet visible of course. What would be causing this freezeup when I go to BIOS setup? And, where can I find a manual for this board? Thanks From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 13 14:52:14 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1084477933.30017.93.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:06, John Allain wrote: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > BTW I like the VCM.* > Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show > and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a > surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on > the list checks it out at least once a month. Are there any stats for the location of buyers, casual browers (that'd have to be based on IP) and sellers? Looking at that front page it looks purely an American affair at the moment, with a couple of strays. I'd use it for listing my collection and interests. I couldn't really use it for buying or selling though, as shipping to/from the UK just makes it uneconomical on anything but the smallest items unless they're located in this country. Does anyone else on this side of the pond have any idea where all the classic collectors are lurking? Generally, they don't seem to be on this list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) audience... cheers Jules From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 13 14:53:28 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: Message-ID: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> What kind of beer and snacks do you guys like? I'm way over here in South Carolina, but I may need help with the following items from some recent equipment acquisitions: 1) Dead VT52 terminal 2) Semi-dead LA-120 DecWriter 3) RL01 drive that powers up, spins, and then lights the fault light 4) Installing / testing / aligning two RK05 drives Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > > > > I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they don't > > > eat, and need veterinarians. > > > > Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, whereas > > horses require none (... YET ;)) > > And dont forget all the beer and snacks you need to get your friends > in order for them to come over and (help you) fix the damn things..! > > --f > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 13 15:05:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > What kind of beer and snacks do you guys like? I'm way over here > in South Carolina, but I may need help with the following items > from some recent equipment acquisitions: > > 3) RL01 drive that powers up, spins, and then lights the fault light ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think that you need to be cabled uo to an alive-and-functioning RLV11 or equiv - the RL0n drives want to see valid clock sigs back from the adapter card. Cheerz John From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 14:51:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200405132008.QAA02750@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I've found that in every 'hobby', no matter how inexpensive it seems, > there is always a way to make it really expensive. True, very true. >> I'm the computer person. The nice thing about computers is they >> don't eat, and need veterinarians. > Except you likely pay as much if not more than that in electricity, > whereas horses require none (... YET ;)) Depends on where you live (about electricity, not horses) - in Montreal, lots of people heat with electricity, which means that during the heating season the electricity to run computers is free. (Pull a kilowatthour of power, get .86 megacalories of heat; whether it happens in a big resistor along the baseboards or in intricate patterns of silicon and aluminum matters little.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 13 15:15:47 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> This 11/03 (converted to 11/23) is in a fellow's garage and I haven't done any detailed testing. It has two RL01 drives in it. Both of them worked in the past. The first one still works. The fault light lights up on the second one. I'm picking up the computer Saturday morning and taking it to my house. I'll check the cabling, etc, and do some experimenting / testing after I get it home and get it set up again. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > What kind of beer and snacks do you guys like? I'm way over here > > in South Carolina, but I may need help with the following items > > from some recent equipment acquisitions: > > > > > 3) RL01 drive that powers up, spins, and then lights the fault light > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I think that you need to be cabled uo to an alive-and-functioning RLV11 > or equiv - the RL0n drives want to see valid clock sigs back from the > adapter card. > > > Cheerz > > John > From marvin at rain.org Thu May 13 12:43:29 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Apple mouse References: <200405122343.i4CNhThc073846@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40A3B3C1.6EA635F0@rain.org> Hmmm, it sounds like there may have been more than one version of the square 9-pin connector. I'll go check some of the other Mac 128s and see what the mouse looks like there. The only problem I run into is that I don't know if mouse is original to the computer. Thanks! Mark Tapley wrote: > > My 512K Mac has the squarer connector (although the Mac itself has > been upgraded to a Plus). But I don't think it has the little Mouse > icon on the connector - I'll have to check that. > > I could also check mouse serial number, etc. if it will help. Not > sure I still have serial number for the computer, as that may have > gone with the original back part of the housing. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 13 15:29:37 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1> <000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > The first one still works. The fault light lights up on > the second one. > Check that the terminator plug has not become dislodged from the back of the second drive. And the RL series have no rocket science or voodoo in them - so they're pretty strightforward to repair. I (and many others here) have the docs and printsets for these drives, if you need such. Cheers John From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 13 15:35:16 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: <001001c43923$f64852b0$a0340f14@mcothran1><000a01c43927$14db7150$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000801c43929$cd5fb360$a0340f14@mcothran1> Thanks for the tips. I'll try to fiddle around with it late Saturday evening, EST. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > The first one still works. The fault light lights up on > > the second one. > > > > Check that the terminator plug has not become dislodged from the back of > the second drive. > > And the RL series have no rocket science or voodoo in them - so they're > pretty strightforward to repair. I (and many others here) have the docs > and printsets for these drives, if you need such. > > > Cheers > > John > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 15:58:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <1084477933.30017.93.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Are there any stats for the location of buyers, casual browers (that'd > have to be based on IP) and sellers? Looking at that front page it looks > purely an American affair at the moment, with a couple of strays. Hi Jules. I'll have Patrick respond with regional statistics. But as for the system itself, it's definitely geared towards an international user base. We added multiple currency support a while ago and have always intended a global scope. > I'd use it for listing my collection and interests. I couldn't really > use it for buying or selling though, as shipping to/from the UK just > makes it uneconomical on anything but the smallest items unless they're > located in this country. That's my next business plan :) > Does anyone else on this side of the pond have any idea where all the > classic collectors are lurking? Generally, they don't seem to be on this > list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) audience... I'd like to know as well... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 16:14:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > > Canned Sunshine > Unobtanium ;) > Round Tuits That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on fools' errands for... Muffler Bearings Flight Line Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher Prop Wash ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -70.0 F (-56.7 C) Windchill -135.9 F (-93.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.1 kts Grid 026 Barometer 689 mb (10289. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 16:18:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale In-Reply-To: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> References: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040513211820.GD32679@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 06:37:08PM -0500, tandem wrote: > I'm in the process of putting together a list of what I've got for sale. > > I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). > > I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. What software do you have with them? (I have plenty of newer 12-bit hardware; I'm always on the lookout for 12-bit software). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 21:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.5 F (-56.4 C) Windchill -128.8 F (-89.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14 kts Grid 023 Barometer 689.1 mb (10285. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 15:24:03 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79A80112-A51B-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 13, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Planets ban random items too, and you stand a small chance of being >> "inspected" - if so your banned items will be confiscated, you may >> be allowed to pay a "fine" instead though > > In the games I've played you lose your cargo AND get fined. > >> Or pehaps you may be offered "Inspection Insurance" on landing? > > You mean a bribe? :) Bribe is such and ugly word... yup a bribe. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu May 13 16:25:43 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40A3E7D7.1080107@jcwren.com> Horn Fluid Ethan Dicks wrote: >On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > > >>After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >> >>Canned Sunshine >>Unobtanium ;) >>Round Tuits >> >> > >That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >fools' errands for... > >Muffler Bearings >Flight Line >Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >Prop Wash > >... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > >-ethan > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu May 13 16:25:39 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale References: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> <20040513211820.GD32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <014301c43930$d6a27140$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. If that's the rack I think it is, I'd be highly interested in just the rack. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu May 13 16:31:24 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale In-Reply-To: <000801c4387a$0aca1d40$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040513213124.71526.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> I would be interested in the RX01s, as well as software and other peripherals. Regards, William Maddox --- tandem wrote: > I'm in the process of putting together a list of > what I've got for sale. > > I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). > > I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. > Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC > 50" (24u) cabinet. > > I'll get back with the list soon. > > tm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tandem > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:13 PM > Subject: PDP8s for sale > > > I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a > good home. > > Is there a good place to list them? > > tm From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu May 13 16:49:12 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > fools' errands for... > > Muffler Bearings > Flight Line > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > Prop Wash > A box of Grid Squares Vampire Tap Plasma 5 gallon bucket (to capture dropped packets behind the relay rack) Left handed Crescent Wrench Torx Hammer Ethernet Grease (can't let the cable dry out!) etc... :) g. From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 16:50:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <79A80112-A51B-11D8-B962-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Bribe is such and ugly word... > yup a bribe. Use "baksheesh" instead then. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 16:34:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 13, 4 09:36:53 am Message-ID: > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the RK07 or > build a solid state RK07 replacement. It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer system is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as running one with a demountable hard disk. > > Wouldn't it be simpler to make a Unibus card with the flash memory and > > interface on it that pretended to be a disk controller?=20 > I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic and DEC managed with a handful of TTL. You don't _need_ an FPGA. You'd want to do DMA, which means that your device has to source the bus address, but that's not hard (a counter + buffers, basically). You also need the word count register (another counter), and some glue logic. Not that hard to build. > maybe a microcontroller a bit more powerfull then a 8 bit Atmel AVR. > This seems to be more complex then a solid state RK07 replacement. A > RK07 replacement should be doable with a hand full of serial <=3D> > parallel converter chips (data and controll words are transfered > serially between drive and controler), a 8 bit Atmel AVR and a FLASH, > IDE, whatever disk. One big difference is that the RK07 interface speed is determined by the conotroller, and your device has to keep up, keep on squirting out the bitstream at the right rate. The Unibus can be run as slow as you like (within reason). You don't have to keep up with anything. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 13 17:01:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:14 PM 5/13/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >> >> Canned Sunshine >> Unobtanium ;) >> Round Tuits > >That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >fools' errands for... > >Muffler Bearings >Flight Line >Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >Prop Wash > >... and there's more than I can't remember right now. Geez, how can you forget the left handed monkey wrench? Joe From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 13 17:08:06 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M422 4040/4004 System Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040504201840.008a7db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040506202646.0083e9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A3F1C6.80407@nktelco.net> Joe R. wrote: >At 08:07 PM 5/6/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >>I have an Pro-Log M825 System Analyzer which is for the 8085. I do have >>a manual photocopy for it. I have not used it, but it seems pretty >>primitive. >> >> > > I'd like to get a copy of your manual. > > > Here is a copy of the manual: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/doc/M825_SysAnalyzer.pdf The manual is a bad photocopy of the paste-ups and is marked preliminary. It does not even have page numbers. -chuck From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 13 17:10:19 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Need listmember info... Message-ID: <200405131710.19887.pat@computer-refuge.org> If anyone can provide me with Dan Cohoe's phone number I would really apprecate it. I need to give him a call about meeting up with him in Dayton, but have managed to discard my copy of his phone number. Thanks to anyone who can help, Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 17:37:18 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 10:34:22PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the RK07 or > > build a solid state RK07 replacement. > > It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer system > is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. > Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as running > one with a demountable hard disk. While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to do more than play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest Unibus disk (that wasn't on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s on an RL11. These days, I have bigger Unibus CPUs (11/44, 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still a limit for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the 11/44 or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D machines) Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm pretty much stuck with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution that emulates _some_ DEC disk controller (to avoid burning boot PROMs, writing drivers for every OS I'd want to play with, etc.). In order, a good solution for me would work with 2BSD, RT-11, RSX and RSTS... there's plenty of interfaces that fit the bill. If I weren't worried about compatibility, I'd probably just go down to the basement and hack something into a Unibus COMBOARD (68000- based communication controller w/DMA interface, 16K/32K EPROM, 128K RAM, 5025 sync UART, 6821 PIA...) I've thought about those stick-in-the-socket interfaces for slotless Amigas - both IDE and SCSI are available. The one thing that stinks is that for a disk controller, a sync UART is pretty much useless... I'd consider swapping that out for some other chip. We used Z8530s on our Qbus and VAXBI designs. > DEC managed with a handful of TTL. You don't _need_ an FPGA. You'd want > to do DMA, which means that your device has to source the bus address, > but that's not hard (a counter + buffers, basically). You also need the > word count register (another counter), and some glue logic. Not that hard > to build. It's pretty well documented in the DEC "Bus Handbook" - I have it on paper at home, and I'm pretty sure it's on bitsavers - I know I've seen it online somewhere. We just went with the DEC bus chips, not an option these days, though, unless like me, you happen to have a pile of 8641s and DC013s... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 22:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.7 F (-56.5 C) Windchill -123.3 F (-86.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.4 kts Grid 041 Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Thu May 13 17:43:59 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c4393b$c83c8680$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > I'll have Patrick respond with regional statistics. But as > for the system itself, it's definitely geared towards an > international user base. We added multiple currency support > a while ago and have always intended a global scope. We have users from 44 different countries as of this moment, and we support seven currencies (US $, Euros, British Pounds, Australian $, Canadian $, Hong Kong $, and Japanese Yen). The breakdown of users, for those of you who love ISO-3166 country codes, is: AR 2 AT 2 AU 21 BE 4 BG 2 BR 5 CA 45 CH 5 CL 1 CM 1 CN 1 CO 1 CR 1 DE 20 DK 4 ES 7 FI 1 FR 4 FX 4 GB 42 GG 1 GR 2 HU 1 IE 1 IL 1 IN 1 IT 11 JP 1 LK 1 LU 2 MO 1 MX 2 MY 1 NL 13 NO 1 NZ 2 PH 1 PL 1 PT 2 RU 1 SE 4 SK 2 US 619 YU 1 > > this list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) > > audience... All they have to do is sign up! Spread the word, man! :-) Patrick From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 13 17:47:17 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database References: <008e01c438f3$75855fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1084477933.30017.93.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <002201c4393c$5050a560$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: Re: IDEA - Collector interest database > > On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:06, John Allain wrote: > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > BTW I like the VCM.* > > Itt's just that we're talking show-and-tell, not show > > and sell, in this instance. The VCM is actually a > > surprizingly good effort and I hope everybody on > > the list checks it out at least once a month. > > Are there any stats for the location of buyers, casual browers (that'd > have to be based on IP) and sellers? Looking at that front page it looks > purely an American affair at the moment, with a couple of strays. > > I'd use it for listing my collection and interests. I couldn't really > use it for buying or selling though, as shipping to/from the UK just > makes it uneconomical on anything but the smallest items unless they're > located in this country. > > Does anyone else on this side of the pond have any idea where all the > classic collectors are lurking? Generally, they don't seem to be on this > list. It'd be nice if the VCM reached a wider (non-US) audience... > > cheers > > Jules > Good point Jules. I used to have quite a few contacts from Britain, Belgium and Italy plus some more probably who emailed me from my site. I guess in 1996 there weren't that many vintage computer pages so I used to get a lot more then, than I do now. Terrific interest in Atari, Amiga, Tandy too I think plus Apple. Those were the ones I knew, then there were Acorns and things I didn't know about. (Since discovered that Sears here in Canada used to sell Acorns.) The sites and the people are out there, it just seems harded to find them. What's a boot sale? :) Maybe you could start a European vintage site! bm From aek at spies.com Thu May 13 17:58:15 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405132258.i4DMwFZi015254@spies.com> > I've got one. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's complete. I also > have the install tapes (I believe). No manuals though... I just put the S8000 CPU Board manual up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/S8000/03-3200-01_S8000cpuHw_Sep82.pdf I'll work through some others that i've scanned in the next week or two. Getting the tapes read would be a good thing. 1/4" carts? From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu May 13 17:54:30 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard In-Reply-To: <40A3D0C8.2010009@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <20040513225430.32478.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> The last thing you can do is to match it with the pictures: http://www.megasat.ch/totalhardware/ vax, 3900 --- Scarletdown wrote: > I'm looking for a manual and other info on this old > 386 motherboard that > I am trying to build into a working DOS 6.22/WfW > 3.11 system for playing > old games and to play around with DOS TCP/IP > networking. The board, > according to the BIOS string, is from Wintac-Edom > (The BIOS string is: > > E0X3-1379-083090-K0 Beyond that, I can't seem to > find any other info on > this, as there are no other identifying markings > that I can find. > > Here's a pic of the board... > > http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GKW-Edom-MB-0.JPG > > Anyway, I currently have it set up with a VGA card, > a 16-bit MIO card, > Adaptec AHA 1542CF SCSI adapter, Databook PCMCIA > card reader, PnP > Soundblaster, 3Com EtherLink III 3c509 NIC, SCSI > CD-ROM drive, 210MB > Hard drive as the master drive, 1.5GB hard drive set > as slave (will put > EZ-BIOS on it shortly to make it useable on this old > board), 386/DX-25 > (or 33, I don't remember at the moment which) CPU, > and 8MB of RAM in the > form of 8 1MB 30 Pin SIMMs). > > So, when I boot up, she goes through the memory > test, then the SCSI card > does its self-test. After that, I get an error > about the hard drive > (this is because I haven't set either drive up yet), > and am given the > option to hit F1 to go to setup. > > Well, when I go into BIOS setup, everything freezes > on me, no response > at all from the keyboard, and all I can do is hit > reset or power down. > Odd thing is, though; I can boot up with a DOS > floppy and access the C > drive just fine, though the D drive is not yet > visible of course. > > What would be causing this freezeup when I go to > BIOS setup? And, where > can I find a manual for this board? > > Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 18:02:42 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On May 13, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Joe R. wrote: > At 09:14 PM 5/13/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> >>> Canned Sunshine >>> Unobtanium ;) >>> Round Tuits >> >> That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >> fools' errands for... >> >> Muffler Bearings >> Flight Line >> Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >> Prop Wash >> >> ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > > > Geez, how can you forget the left handed monkey wrench? > > Joe > > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he used to work for Dupont (big paint people) and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... Polka dots (actually I think it would make little speckles if anything...) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 13 19:00:43 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:31 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > fools' errands for... > > Muffler Bearings > Flight Line > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > Prop Wash > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. metric crescent wrench rubber nails spotted paint (all of which actually exist) From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 13 18:21:37 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <001901c4393b$c83c8680$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> References: <001901c4393b$c83c8680$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: <20040513232137.GA9205@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 03:43:59PM -0700, Patrick Rigney wrote: > We have users from 44 different countries as of this moment, and we support > seven currencies (US $, Euros, British Pounds, Australian $, Canadian $, > Hong Kong $, and Japanese Yen). > > The breakdown of users, for those of you who love ISO-3166 country codes, > is: > > US 619 Didn't you forget... AQ 1 :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-May-2004 23:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.0 F (-56.2 C) Windchill -101.3 F (-74.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.7 kts Grid 068 Barometer 689.3 mb (10277. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 13 19:01:48 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405131759.NAA01770@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040513164831.B48785@newshell.lmi.net> > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... RK07 5150 PDP11/40 (weathered) Fry's rebate coupons spam 8272 chips Compaq portables (in batches of at least a gross) From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 19:01:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405132258.i4DMwFZi015254@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > I just put the S8000 CPU Board manual up at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/S8000/03-3200-01_S8000cpuHw_Sep82.pdf > > I'll work through some others that i've scanned in the next week > or two. > > Getting the tapes read would be a good thing. 1/4" carts? Yarp. I'll bring them the next time I plan to be in the same place as you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 13 19:06:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040513200654.00882750@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:02 PM 5/13/04 -0700, you wrote: > >On May 13, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 09:14 PM 5/13/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >>> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>>> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>>> >>>> Canned Sunshine >>>> Unobtanium ;) >>>> Round Tuits >>> >>> That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >>> fools' errands for... >>> >>> Muffler Bearings >>> Flight Line >>> Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>> Prop Wash >>> >>> ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >> >> >> Geez, how can you forget the left handed monkey wrench? >> >> Joe >> >> > >Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he >used to work for Dupont (big paint people) >and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... >Polka dots (actually I think it would make >little speckles if anything...) They do make that kind of paint, it's a standard product. We used it to repaint automobile trunks when I worked in a paint and body shop. It matched the original paint in the '60s model cars. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 13 19:08:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040513170625.G48785@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > little speckles if anything...) Spotted paint is readily available. GM, rather than matching color with outside body, painted the inside of the trunks of some of their cars with a "splatter finish" paint. For touchup body repair, spray cans are available of it. From donm at cts.com Thu May 13 19:11:38 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Bribe is such and ugly word... > > yup a bribe. > > Use "baksheesh" instead then. > Or "mordida" ? - don > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 13 20:15:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16548.7605.609000.688563@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 10:34:22PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >> > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the >> RK07 or > build a solid state RK07 replacement. >> >> It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer >> system is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it >> as well. Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not >> the same as running one with a demountable hard disk. Ethan> While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to Ethan> do more than play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest Ethan> Unibus disk (that wasn't on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s Ethan> on an RL11. These days, I have bigger Unibus CPUs (11/44, Ethan> 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still a limit Ethan> for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the Ethan> 11/44 or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D Ethan> machines) Ethan> Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm Ethan> pretty much stuck with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution Ethan> that emulates _some_ DEC disk controller (to avoid burning Ethan> boot PROMs, writing drivers for every OS I'd want to play Ethan> with, etc.). In order, a good solution for me would work with Ethan> 2BSD, RT-11, RSX and RSTS... there's plenty of interfaces that Ethan> fit the bill. If you can find adequate documentation for MSCP -- which should be doable -- then an MSCP controller would make a lot of sense. It's more complex in a sense, but it's command packet oriented, so the CSR piece is trivial. That one you can definitely do with just a register file to provide a register window (plus a DMA, but that can actually just be controller software reaching through a memory window over the Unibus). One clear advantage is that you can pretty much pick whatever device size you want, because drivers query the controller for the disk size and believe what they are told. With older devices, you're stuck with the particular device sizes that existed then. If not MSCP, the next obvious choice is RH11, because that gives you the widest choice of the biggest drives, and it doesn't seem significantly harder than any of the others. paul From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu May 13 20:16:49 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <3.0.6.32.20040513180145.00843ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A41E01.6080109@mdrconsult.com> Ron Hudson wrote: > > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > little speckles if anything...) Pedant Mode=On That would depend mostly on the relative viscosities, the spray aperture, and the pressure. Pedant Mode=Off Doc From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 13 21:10:04 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: last of the Hyperion picture links Message-ID: <001701c43958$a4341b00$6402a8c0@home> A couple of days ago I posted several links to photos of my Hyperion Ex units. The units consist of 128k memory boards (1 each), hard drive controller, 2400 modem in one unit, a Logitech mouse card in one, plus the 50 pin interface that connects to the smaller Hyperion unit, which is shown sitting on top of the Ex unit in some of the photos. A couple of the photos show the HyperAccess unit and the HyperRam unit which fit together via a 50 pin connection. The joined unit then plugs into the 50 pin female slot on the back of the Hyperion. Let me know if you have any questions. Here all of the links: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/exunitcabling.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/exunitcabling2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionandexunit.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionandexunit2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionex.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopen.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexopenwide.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionexserial.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionfront.jpg http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/hyperionwithramaccess.jpg From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu May 13 21:09:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16548.7605.609000.688563@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 09:15 PM 5/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: > > Ethan> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 10:34:22PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > The real question is: What is more time consuming? Rebuild the > >> RK07 or > build a solid state RK07 replacement. > >> > >> It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer > >> system is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it > >> as well. Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not > >> the same as running one with a demountable hard disk. > > Ethan> While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to > Ethan> do more than play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest > Ethan> Unibus disk (that wasn't on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s > Ethan> on an RL11. These days, I have bigger Unibus CPUs (11/44, > Ethan> 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still a limit > Ethan> for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the > Ethan> 11/44 or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D > Ethan> machines) > > Ethan> Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm > Ethan> pretty much stuck with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution > Ethan> that emulates _some_ DEC disk controller (to avoid burning > Ethan> boot PROMs, writing drivers for every OS I'd want to play > Ethan> with, etc.). In order, a good solution for me would work with > Ethan> 2BSD, RT-11, RSX and RSTS... there's plenty of interfaces that > Ethan> fit the bill. > >If you can find adequate documentation for MSCP -- which should be >doable -- then an MSCP controller would make a lot of sense. It's >more complex in a sense, but it's command packet oriented, so the CSR >piece is trivial. That one you can definitely do with just a register >file to provide a register window (plus a DMA, but that can actually >just be controller software reaching through a memory window over the >Unibus). > >One clear advantage is that you can pretty much pick whatever device >size you want, because drivers query the controller for the disk size >and believe what they are told. With older devices, you're stuck with >the particular device sizes that existed then. > >If not MSCP, the next obvious choice is RH11, because that gives you >the widest choice of the biggest drives, and it doesn't seem >significantly harder than any of the others. I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to be used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be useless. --tom From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu May 13 20:50:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard References: <40A3D0C8.2010009@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <07db01c43959$58087b80$6401a8c0@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scarletdown" To: "Classic Bits" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: Need Info On an Old 386 Motherboard > I'm looking for a manual and other info on this old 386 motherboard that > I am trying to build into a working DOS 6.22/WfW 3.11 system for playing > old games and to play around with DOS TCP/IP networking. The board, > according to the BIOS string, is from Wintac-Edom (The BIOS string is: > > E0X3-1379-083090-K0 Beyond that, I can't seem to find any other info on > this, as there are no other identifying markings that I can find. > > Here's a pic of the board... > > http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GKW-Edom-MB-0.JPG > > Anyway, I currently have it set up with a VGA card, a 16-bit MIO card, > Adaptec AHA 1542CF SCSI adapter, Databook PCMCIA card reader, PnP > Soundblaster, 3Com EtherLink III 3c509 NIC, SCSI CD-ROM drive, 210MB > Hard drive as the master drive, 1.5GB hard drive set as slave (will put > EZ-BIOS on it shortly to make it useable on this old board), 386/DX-25 > (or 33, I don't remember at the moment which) CPU, and 8MB of RAM in the > form of 8 1MB 30 Pin SIMMs). > > So, when I boot up, she goes through the memory test, then the SCSI card > does its self-test. After that, I get an error about the hard drive > (this is because I haven't set either drive up yet), and am given the > option to hit F1 to go to setup. > > Well, when I go into BIOS setup, everything freezes on me, no response > at all from the keyboard, and all I can do is hit reset or power down. > Odd thing is, though; I can boot up with a DOS floppy and access the C > drive just fine, though the D drive is not yet visible of course. > > What would be causing this freezeup when I go to BIOS setup? And, where > can I find a manual for this board? > > Thanks > To me it looks like this board: http://www.megasat.ch/totalhardware/m/U-Z/30325.htm WINCAL TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION OPTI-25 Processor 80386DX Processor Speed 25MHz Chip Set OPTI Max. Onboard DRAM 8MB Cache None BIOS AMI Dimensions 330mm x 218mm I/O Options 32-bit external memory card slot NPU Options 80387/3167 From donm at cts.com Thu May 13 22:20:49 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40A41E01.6080109@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > > little speckles if anything...) > > Pedant Mode=On > > That would depend mostly on the relative viscosities, the spray > aperture, and the pressure. > > Pedant Mode=Off > > Doc There used to be - may still be available - back in the latter '50s a sprayable paint named Zolatone. It created a sort of polka-dot effect with a light texture. Typically, it was multicolor, but could also be purchased in monotone, IIRC. - don From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 13 22:44:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> References: <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200405140346.XAA04322@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > metric crescent wrench > rubber nails > spotted paint > (all of which actually exist) I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 13 23:49:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405140346.XAA04322@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > metric crescent wrench > > rubber nails > > spotted paint > > (all of which actually exist) > > I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? > Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From donm at cts.com Fri May 14 00:16:58 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A month or so ago, there was considerable scurry to locate a site that housed the complete archive. Such was found and published, and I took note and put the URL away for safekeeping. Too safe, regrettably, as I can not now find it. Hopefully, one of you is better organized and can 'refresh' my bad memory. Thanks!!! - don From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 14 00:41:49 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 13 May 2004 21:09, Tom Uban wrote: > I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to be > used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be useless. But who'd ever want to run an OLD os on classic hardware?? Seriously, you've got a point, and I hadn't thought about that fact before. Part of the issue is that I don't have any of that "old" versions of software/OS that won't talk MSCP. So, what devices would give us the largest range of possibilties for software compatibilty at the larges size? If we're to use a microcontroller to run this board, then it'd be possible to have "changable firmware", and either change it to emulate the type of device you want, or to emulate multiple devices. On second thought, you probably don't need a microcontroller for that, but it seems easier than going the FPGA/PLD route to do it. In 1970 pdp11 handbook: - no disks, just a teletype and papertape reader are listed. Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK11/RK05 - 2.4MB disk pack - RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RP04 - 100MB (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL11/RL01 - 5MB disk pack Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK06 - RK11, 14MB disk pack - RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack - RM02/03 - RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack Added in 1981/2 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL02 - 10MB disk pack - RP06 - 176MB disk pack - RP07 - 516MB winchester - RM05 - 256MB winchester - RM80 - 124MB winchester So, it looks like to me the best choices would be an RK11/RK05(06,07), an RP11/RP04(05,06,07), an RX11/RX01 and and RL11/RL01(02) emulator. If I were to pick a single choice right now, I'd probably pick the RP11 controller, for the breadth of possible sizes (from 40MB in 1973 to 516MB in 1981), and put RL11 as a second choice, simply because I've got one. :) RK11/RK05 seems too small to be worthwhile, but the RK06 and RK07 aren't bad sizes. Now, I haven't looked much into complexity yet, but at first glance through register descriptions, RL11 takes the cake on simplicity on just 4 registers, RK11 is middle-ground with 7, and RM11&RP11 are the most complex, with at least 20 registers. So, as a first try, I'd probably go for the RL11 for simplicity and then once that was working, try for the RK11 or RM11/RP11 interfaces. These all seem a lot simpler than MSCP (UDA50/KDA50) interface emulation, and support media that should be "large enough" for most people (1/2GB). In fact, the drive in my VAXstation 3200 is only 650MB, and it feels big with VMS 5.3 on it. For the actually data storage, I think you'll want to use flash or a writeable hard drive (perhaps even a 2.5" laptop IDE drive mounted on the UNIBUS controller card). It seems novel to have a 8 (emulated drive) x 516MB (4GB total) UNIBUS storage card that takes up a single SPC slot. Hey Tom, have you started at all on your RK11 emulator? Want to compare notes on this? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 00:45:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >A month or so ago, there was considerable scurry to locate a site >that housed the complete archive. Such was found and published, >and I took note and put the URL away for safekeeping. Too safe, >regrettably, as I can not now find it. > >Hopefully, one of you is better organized and can 'refresh' my bad >memory. Thanks!!! Not better organized, just knew I'd replied to the thread :^) http://cd.textfiles.com/pcblue/ I recommend looking at the rest of the site as well, I found something there I've been searching for 10 years for. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri May 14 00:56:46 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A45F9E.1010609@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > >>>metric crescent wrench >>>rubber nails >>>spotted paint >>>(all of which actually exist) >> >>I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? >>Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? > > > And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? Keep a rubber tree from bouncing, of course! :) Doc From aek at spies.com Fri May 14 02:10:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: HP BPC description Message-ID: <200405140710.i4E7A4HV003022@spies.com> I've just uploaded a scan of the 9845 assembler development rom which describes the BPC (among other things..) http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/98xx/09845-91083_asmDevRom_Mar80.pdf From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri May 14 02:20:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal Message-ID: All, It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The Netherlands. After a brief period of dealing with an extremely malicious form of cancer, his body decided to give up late yesterday afternoon, May 13th, 2004. About 15 years ago, Sipke got me started in the PDP-11 collection "biz", when I had to get rid of my 11/40's, /34's and associated periphs. My uncle had a friend (Sipke) who'd probably take them, and, sure enough, he took them in. When I saw his place, filled with all sorts of old computers, I decided to "do that too when I grow up". I still have the MicroPDP-11 he gave me then. Last week, I got forwarded a message of one of his friends, asking for a new home for a (PDP-11) computer collection, because the owner had gotten seriously ill and had to let go. I was the first to respond, and "got" the collection. Sometime later, I started to realize that the list of equipment sounded familiar. When the intermediate friend told me that the owner lived in Noordwijk, all alarms went off. Some checking (I called his number) clarified things.. indeed, it was Sipke's collection, and he indeed was very ill. Still.. we hoped for some more time for goodbyes, a chat, and so on. I'll be taking care of his systems, which, as he put it, with a smile, "were kinda overdue in picking up, after 15 years!" Rust zacht, dear Sipke, and watch your blinkenlights go! Sipke's site is at http://xgistor.ath.cx/aboutme.htm. Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From GOOI at oce.nl Fri May 14 02:53:54 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC9@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Farewell, Sipke. Rest in peace, and laugh at us from above! - Henk. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 14 02:26:22 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040514092622.55783ec5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 22:34:22 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > To me, a classic computer system > is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. > Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as > running one with a demountable hard disk. Very true. The sound of a spinning disk... But I have only one RK07 medium. So I can not benefit from the posibility to swap media. And: Disk drives are prone to fail. Lots of mechanical stuff that weres out much faster then electronic. The ideal solution is to have the solid state disk for dad-to-day use and the real drive for the feel of it, data exchange, ... > > I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic > DEC managed with a handful of TTL. Sure. But a FPGA is run time reconfigurable so I can emulate what ever interface I want. I can even emulate multiple different interfaces at the same time as a FPGA has enough complexity. (Maybe a RK07 and a TS11) Meanwhile I got a private mail from someone who has a QBus board in prototype state. It looks much like my proposed UniBus solution with FPGA and PowerPC CPU. There will be a UniBus version if this QBus board becomes a success. So it looks like we just have to wait for this solution to all our QBus / UniBus storage problems. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 14 04:08:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: OT: Any PHP gurus? I have a question... Message-ID: Are there any hardcore PHP gurus out there that can help me with an unusual PHP construct (converting an array into a list of elements to pass as parameters into a function)? Please e-mail me privately. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bpope at wordstock.com Fri May 14 06:37:26 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 13, 04 09:14:01 pm Message-ID: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > > > > Canned Sunshine > > Unobtanium ;) > > Round Tuits > > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > fools' errands for... > > Muffler Bearings > Flight Line > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > Prop Wash > > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > > -ethan Skyhooks! Cheers, Bryan Pope From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri May 14 07:01:10 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <7320f0ae4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> "Torquil MacCorkle, III" wrote: > If a hobby is 'cheap', you are not into it enough. :) Sounds about right. There are some things that are worth having, though - case in point being the soldering station (an Antex 660-TC) I bought the other day. Having used it all of three times, I've relegated the non-temperature-controlled monstrosity I used before (a 25W that ran at around 450C) to the back of the cupboard. While I'm on the subject of soldering stations, is there any generally-agreed "best" temperature for 60/40 Multicore solder? I've got the station set to 350C at the moment (increased 375 if I'm using desolder wick). I'll be damned if I can find the datasheet for the solder I'm using on Multicore's website though :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Captain, Permission to hook up blender attachments to Mr Spock From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri May 14 07:10:42 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> Message-ID: Bryan, For some nice Sky Hooks look: http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm (Not a bad deal for under $80K) Or http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly more relaxing. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:37 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... >>> >>> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: >>> > >>> > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> > > >>> > > Canned Sunshine >>> > > Unobtanium ;) >>> > > Round Tuits >>> > >>> > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" >>> are sent on >>> > fools' errands for... >>> > >>> > Muffler Bearings >>> > Flight Line >>> > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>> > Prop Wash >>> > >>> > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >>> > >>> > -ethan >>> >>> Skyhooks! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Bryan Pope From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri May 14 07:27:09 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... References: Message-ID: <001301c439ae$c6c6b320$7d2c1941@game> $80K in 1960's money is how much today? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: RE: A little help from my friends... > Bryan, > > For some nice Sky Hooks look: > > http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm (Not a bad deal > for under $80K) > > Or > > http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly more relaxing. > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope > >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:37 AM > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... > >>> > >>> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > >>> > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > >>> > > > >>> > > Canned Sunshine > >>> > > Unobtanium ;) > >>> > > Round Tuits > >>> > > >>> > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" > >>> are sent on > >>> > fools' errands for... > >>> > > >>> > Muffler Bearings > >>> > Flight Line > >>> > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > >>> > Prop Wash > >>> > > >>> > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > >>> > > >>> > -ethan > >>> > >>> Skyhooks! > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Bryan Pope > > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri May 14 07:33:22 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405140833.22824.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 14 May 2004 08:10, David V. Corbin wrote: > Bryan, > > For some nice Sky Hooks look: > > http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm (Not a bad > deal for under $80K) > > Or > > http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly more relaxing. When I hear skyhook I think of the climbing tool ~13.00. There was a group that was looking into mining asteroids that was looking at similar ideas. I suggested to them that they look at burdock, since a skyhook might be difficult to place by remote control. - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFApLySLPrIaE/xBZARAhnjAJ9CZpYa2TLB2aSXidnUedYGSuQxjwCfbnDO wF4TUHjaWAsdFF8u5AQ1efo= =GQvq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri May 14 07:40:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <001301c439ae$c6c6b320$7d2c1941@game> Message-ID: Money is relative, of course. But compare to the price of a PDP-8 (with peripherials).... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Teo Zenios >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:27 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... >>> >>> $80K in 1960's money is how much today? >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "David V. Corbin" >>> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:10 AM >>> Subject: RE: A little help from my friends... >>> >>> >>> > Bryan, >>> > >>> > For some nice Sky Hooks look: >>> > >>> > http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/PRPhotos/CessnaCH-1.htm >>> (Not a bad deal >>> > for under $80K) >>> > >>> > Or >>> > >>> > http://www.skyhook.biz/index.html (Cheaper and possibly >>> more relaxing. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:37 AM >>> > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> > >>> Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... >>> > >>> >>> > >>> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> > >>> > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > Canned Sunshine >>> > >>> > > Unobtanium ;) >>> > >>> > > Round Tuits >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" >>> > >>> are sent on >>> > >>> > fools' errands for... >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Muffler Bearings >>> > >>> > Flight Line >>> > >>> > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>> > >>> > Prop Wash >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -ethan >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Skyhooks! >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Cheers, >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Bryan Pope >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 08:04:48 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 14:46:14 EDT." <16547.49782.92433.486926@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405141304.i4ED4mI24485@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: >.... Again, a software emulation may not get there in time. Yes, agreed. My plan was to be able to have the cpld "hold off" the unibus cpu until the micro could "get there in time" in the cases where that was needed. This is the heart of the shared-register-file-interlock issue. >You might try to cheat by holding off SSYN on the Unibus read until >any pending CSR fixups are done, but then the microcontroller has a >rather tight time limit (20 microseconds or so). :-) as Homer Simpson says, "good idea, boss!" My plan is to try and make that work. 20us is not a huge amount of time but it is in the relm of the possible. Off the cuff I'd say it would be tight for a 40mhz pic; it might be easier on an ARM7 with an fiq interrupt. I plan to simulate the unibus hdl, figure out the window and plan the micro and it's code around that window. -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 08:06:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 20:16:50 +0200." <20040513201650.6c3f2a1f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200405141306.i4ED6d624539@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jochen Kunz wrote: ... >> For older disk controllers, this approach is likely to be hard because >> touching CSRs causes actions to take place, >Programm and wire the CPLD so that it generates an interrupt to the PIC >when the register file is touched. Issue a vector along with the >interrupt that tels the PIC which CSR was touched. yes, but you also need to worry about back-to-back accesses by the unibus cpu. the 'card micro' needs to be able to get in and do it's magic between the unibus cpu's two cycles... i.e. bus locking... -brad From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri May 14 08:15:15 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> References: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <40A4C663.7070602@sbcglobal.net> Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > >>On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >> >>That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >>fools' errands for... >> >>Muffler Bearings >>Flight Line >>Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >>Prop Wash >> >>... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >> >>-ethan > > > Skyhooks! > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > And don't forget the all important left handed smoke shifters, for when you go out camping... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 08:25:42 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16548.51414.875000.752843@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: >> If you can find adequate documentation for MSCP -- which should >> be doable -- then an MSCP controller would make a lot of sense. Tom> I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to Tom> be used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be Tom> useless. Ok, that's true if you want to run early releases of the various PDP11 operating systems. All the late releases support MSCP. Ok, with the definite exception of DOS and the possible exception of IAS and DSM-11. :-) So for earlier ones, RH11 still seems like a good choice, unless it's really old (like early DOS) in which case the RP11 (RP02/RP03 controller) might be good. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 08:27:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Any PHP gurus? I have a question... References: Message-ID: <009301c439b7$43a1eba0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Are there any hardcore PHP gurus out there that can help me with an > unusual PHP construct (converting an array into a list of elements to pass > as parameters into a function)? > > Please e-mail me privately. Thanks! Sellam; I'm not a php programmer, but I sit next to a large team of incredibly good PHP programmers. They are thinking the PHP function you want is "list". This will take an array and assign the array members to variables. Then you can call your function with those variables. If the number of elements in the array is always variable/unknown, you may have a problem with this approach. But it depends on if the unknown number of array elements is huge or small, and how important later members of the array are (ie. is it ok of they are lost). Let me clarify with an example. Example : Lets say you know that there are 3 elements in your array. You can assign them to individual variables as follows: list($first,$second,$third) = array(1,3); Then you can call your function with the parameters $first, $second, $third, etc. Now for the gotchas that occur when you don't know how many values are going to be in the array (ie. it's not always constant). If your array is fairly small as to number of elements, you can simply use the above construct and pass ALL array elements to the list function, and then hard code all those variables to pass to your function. However, your function will have to look at each variable, and stop when the particular parameter is null/undefined. If your array is dimensioned fairly small, the code would not look messy really and this would be a fine approach. But if you have 50 or a 100 elements in your array the code would be really icky-looking. But note that if you have less variables specified in your list function than the array members specified on the right hand side, those array variables are silently ignored in the assignment. Ok, now if I could just find someone on the list to help me with a libtool/automake problem I'm having... :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 12:24:43 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C22@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <200405131724.i4DHOjrQ003030@mail.bcpl.net> On 13 May 2004 at 9:57, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > Only a very minor detail, but I beleive that the certain Zilog chip > designations also indicate the max clock speed. For instance the > Z0800110PSC is a Z8001 (Z08001.. portion), with a max clock speed of > 10MHz (..10.. portion).... The 1983 Zilog databook "Ordering Information" section designates speed grades by letter suffix. No suffix is 4 MHZ, "A" is 6.0 MHz, and "B" is 10 MHz, so a 10 MHz Z8001 in a plastic DIP with a 0-to-70 C temperature range would be ordered as "Z8001B PS". However, two things occurred to me: 1. The parts predate or postdate the databook sufficiently that the ordering codes had changed. Are there obvious date codes on the chips? 2. The parts aren't Zilog issue at all, but rather AMD (a second-source). Are there obvious Zilog (stylized "Z") or AMD (up/right-pointing arrow) logos on the parts? -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 12:36:29 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622468@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <200405131736.i4DHaVrQ015190@mail.bcpl.net> On 13 May 2004 at 10:35, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > Any chance that the data book has a datasheet for the Z8016. Yup, "Direct Memory Access Transfer Controller", 4.0 and 6.0 MHz, 32 pages. I'll scan that too when I do the others. -- Dave From ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se Thu May 13 12:57:02 2004 From: ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513181911.173d13fc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 13 May, 2004 18:19 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted > > > On Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:10 -0700 (PDT) > "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > > Well, a Spartan3 XC3S200 is about $16, has about 27K bytes of block > > RAM that can be used as RAM or ROM, and you could fit at least a > > couple of 100 MHz 16 bit CPUs inside plus whatever other hardware was > > required. > Interresting. > But can I get a PowerPC CPU + FPU + SDRAM interface in that? > Xilinx has embedded PowerPCs inside Virtex-II FPGAs. SDRAM interface is certailnly possible to arrange on that kind of FPGA, if you need. PCI is certainly possible to achieve at a cost (money or blood, sweat & tears). For more info go see the site below. http://www.xilinx.com/ipcenter/processor_central/ultracontroller/index.htm > > An other interresting Question: > Are there free developement tools for the FPGAs available? Probably not for this one. Anything commercial and good enough to handle these big FPGAs will cost you dearly. Without any detailed knowledge I would guess you will end up at about 10 to 20 kUSD (or more) for a profes- sional design kit (e.g. Synplify HDL synthesis, Xilinx ISE place & route, ALDEC AHDL simulator, all these Win blech :) The more *IX you want the more bucks you have to pour into it. I know about gEDA and Icarus verilog, but have so far had no luck... > I have no PeeCee and I refuse to tuch M$ Bloat+Bugware. We are all admitted to have an opinion, no matter how unpractical... ;) Good luck. /Ulf A. From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 13:04:17 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040512182518.008c1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200405131804.i4DI4LrQ011766@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 May 2004 at 18:25, Joe R. wrote: > I'd just like to get a quick overview to begin with but if you don't > mind scanning the whole thing I can post if on my website or I'm sure > that Al would post it on his. I'll see how much I can get accomplished this weekend and will post the URLs back here. One question (also mentioned in another post): I assumed that these were Zilog parts, but I can't tell from the picture you posted. Is the manufacturer apparent from the chips? > Thanks, You're welcome. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu May 13 13:13:05 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 May 2004 at 7:16, vrs wrote: > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > better choices? The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB addressing range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds (far faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, and about $4.00 in single lots. -- Dave From rwhulvey at broadcom.com Thu May 13 13:21:08 2004 From: rwhulvey at broadcom.com (Rob Hulvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: finds from TRW Swapmeet (AKA Northrup Grumman swap meet) today Message-ID: <005e01c43917$10f3ca20$0dfd090a@BROADCOM.COM> Very interesting to see RH32 in the swap meet. I worked some on verification boards for RH32 in '93 and again in '95. Sounds like the board you have was made after I left in '95, since it includes Orca FPGAs which I don't think came about until after that time. We mostly used Actel FPGAs when I was there. It was a fault-tolerant design which was supposed to detect a fault, then back up and start re-executing code prior to the fault. The boards I worked on had only 1 CPU chip, 2 MMUs (for for instructions (IMMU) and 1 for operands (OMMU)), and a connector for an SCU (I forget what that was ... system control unit?) daughtercard, as well as an FPU (floating point unit) daughtercard. I think it was designed to support multiprocessor configs, but we only tested single-processor, as we were bringing it up for the 1st time. As I recall, RH32 was started around '88, supposed to complete around '91, but was about 2 years late in '93 when I started working there. I think it was finally announced in '98: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0EKF/n2232_v44/21034857/p1/article.jhtml There were also efforts by IBM to make silicon-on-saphire versions of their RISC System 6000 CPUs which supposedly did not need the explicit hardware fault tolerance used in RH32, since the process was inherently resistant to radiation induced faults. I don't know if it was ever shown to work well. Seems to be a lot of info on the 'net about compiling code for RH32, and even references to it in source files. I guess they ported Linux to the thing long after I had left. I recall TRW contracted Green Hills Software to make tools for it. -Rob Hulvey From g-wright at att.net Thu May 13 18:20:27 2004 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: Need Help On a PDP 11/60 Message-ID: <051320042320.28591.40A402BA000D89F900006FAF2161243646FF8B9798968D88D2@att.net> Hi Everyone I have some (3) PDP 11/60's that I'm trying to get running. I did manage to get all of the Power supplies going, removed all of the cards and cleaned them. check the cable routing and power supply voltages. I have got the LA-01 and TE-10's running. These systems have been setting since 1986. I do have All zeros in the console display. No other console lights come on ???? . no responce from any keyed input. The Memory cards all have power LEDS turned on (m7984 Mos) The Memory controller has a LED but it's off ?? (M7983) These are from a large test system and each has 5 to 6 cabinets. So in time I want to trim these down to the Base double wide corp. cabinet only. It looks like the board label on top of each card cage matches the cards. I believe the grant cards are all there where needed. Most of the slots in the 2 main card cages are full. The memory back plane does not have grant cards in the open slots and from the manuals I have, this looks correct ?? The question for now is what do the LEDs on the M7878 (11/60 status card, all on) and M7872 (11/60 micro word card, all but the top 3 are on) stand for or tell you. I do not have any manuals on the cards and a quick search did not turn up much. I posted this yesterday and it did not show up so this is a second post. so if you see 2 of these you know why. Yes, I might need help with my power bill also. Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright JLC inc g-wright@worldnet.att.net From karamatk at isb.paknet.com.pk Fri May 14 01:52:52 2004 From: karamatk at isb.paknet.com.pk (Karamat Ali) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: VMS 5.5_2 Help Message-ID: <001101c43980$142fa380$f30187cb@jazz> Hi Hi i came across searching VMX 5.5-2. there i found your contact. I need these manuals.if you please can provide me these manuals i wll be thankful.Regards,Karamat Ali Khan. I came across these DEC VAX manuals while looking for something else. Am not selling, but will provide information from these if needed non-commercially. DECserver 300 RF30 / RF71 R215F KFQSA BA46 RRD42 StorageWorks family user guide VMS 5.5-2 release notes VMS 5.5 upgrade From javickers at solutionengineers.com Fri May 14 07:49:23 2004 From: javickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040513165945.K48785@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> At 17:00 13/05/2004 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 13 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > > fools' errands for... > > > > Muffler Bearings > > Flight Line > > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > > Prop Wash > > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > >metric crescent wrench >rubber nails >spotted paint >(all of which actually exist) I can't believe that these ones have been missed: A new bubble for the spirit level A long weight A bucket of steam A glass hammer A short stand -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 08:45:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:32 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514074618.03555eb8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 12:41 AM 5/14/2004 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Thursday 13 May 2004 21:09, Tom Uban wrote: > > I disagree about MSCP making more sense. If the controller is to be > > used on older pre-MSCP operating systems, then MSCP will be useless. > >But who'd ever want to run an OLD os on classic >hardware?? > >Seriously, you've got a point, and I hadn't thought about that fact >before. Part of the issue is that I don't have any of that "old" >versions of software/OS that won't talk MSCP. Well, V6 Unix did not have an MSCP driver that I know of. I ported an RL11 driver to my copy a number of years ago, so it barely had that. There may have been some more complex drivers for V6 later on. I would also guess that versions of standard DEC OS and diagnostics which predated the MSCP exist as well. >So, what devices would give us the largest range of possibilties for >software compatibilty at the larges size? I'm thinking RK11 and RP11. >If we're to use a microcontroller to run this board, then it'd be >possible to have "changable firmware", and either change it to emulate >the type of device you want, or to emulate multiple devices. On second >thought, you probably don't need a microcontroller for that, but it >seems easier than going the FPGA/PLD route to do it. An FPGA would potentially allow for a large number of registers all in a single package, that could be "re-wired" as necessary after the design was completed. If discrete logic is used for the registers, then the design will end up being fixed. A micro-controller would allow for the management of the disk space independent of the PDP-11. > > >In 1970 pdp11 handbook: >- no disks, just a teletype and papertape reader are listed. > >Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RK11/RK05 - 2.4MB disk pack >- RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack > >Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RP04 - 100MB (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) > >Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RL11/RL01 - 5MB disk pack > >Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RK06 - RK11, 14MB disk pack >- RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack >- RM02/03 - RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack > >Added in 1981/2 pdp11 peripherals handbook: >- RL02 - 10MB disk pack >- RP06 - 176MB disk pack >- RP07 - 516MB winchester >- RM05 - 256MB winchester >- RM80 - 124MB winchester > >So, it looks like to me the best choices would be an RK11/RK05(06,07), >an RP11/RP04(05,06,07), an RX11/RX01 and and RL11/RL01(02) emulator. >If I were to pick a single choice right now, I'd probably pick the RP11 >controller, for the breadth of possible sizes (from 40MB in 1973 to >516MB in 1981), and put RL11 as a second choice, simply because I've >got one. :) RK11/RK05 seems too small to be worthwhile, but the RK06 >and RK07 aren't bad sizes. I'm not sure how much it matters if the emulated controllers match up with the physical ones that we have or not. An RL11 shouldn't be much more difficult than an RK11 emulation. >Now, I haven't looked much into complexity yet, but at first glance >through register descriptions, RL11 takes the cake on simplicity on >just 4 registers, RK11 is middle-ground with 7, and RM11&RP11 are the >most complex, with at least 20 registers. > >So, as a first try, I'd probably go for the RL11 for simplicity and then >once that was working, try for the RK11 or RM11/RP11 interfaces. These >all seem a lot simpler than MSCP (UDA50/KDA50) interface emulation, and >support media that should be "large enough" for most people (1/2GB). >In fact, the drive in my VAXstation 3200 is only 650MB, and it feels >big with VMS 5.3 on it. With an FPGA, it should be fairly easy to start small and work from there. >For the actually data storage, I think you'll want to use flash or a >writeable hard drive (perhaps even a 2.5" laptop IDE drive mounted on >the UNIBUS controller card). It seems novel to have a 8 (emulated >drive) x 516MB (4GB total) UNIBUS storage card that takes up a single >SPC slot. > >Hey Tom, have you started at all on your RK11 emulator? Want to compare >notes on this? I've started thinking more about it, so if that counts... I've also been collecting people's comments on the idea over the years. When I get started in earnest depends on what my schedule ends up looking like this summer. --tom >Pat >-- >Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ >The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 08:47:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) References: Message-ID: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Fred wrote... > It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very > untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The > Netherlands. Very sad. My thoughts are with him and his family. It does make me think... what should happen to my prized/cherished collection if I die suddenly. On the one hand, I'd prefer it to go free to listmembers who have helped me over the years, not the local smelter. On the other hand, my wife has put up with the hobby for so long - and bit her lip often when I spent "her" money on collection items. I would definitely want some money for the collection or parts of it (my gorgeous dual bay 8E and dual bay HP2000 would no doubt fetch "serious" money) to go to my wife. Just to let her know some of it was actually worth something. Yes, you can all take a copy of this email to my wife if I go suddenly as proof of my wishes :) She would have NO clue how to go about dispersing the collection, who to talk to, etc. I wouldn't mind an H8 or two going free to listmembers, but I can't stand the thought of some non-listmember, just someone off the street - offering her $5 for a pristine H8 and walking off with it cause she wouldn't know any better. Of course, not only the collection, but I'd have to arrange for someone to take over ownership of this list.... Maybe the best route is for me to contact several list members and give them my general wishes, and then let them take care of the entire disposition of the collection. Just writing it up in a will isn't sufficient, I would want someone I know knows what they are dealing with to be the one directing it. Time for reflective thought methinks. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri May 14 08:46:45 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad Message-ID: <009501c439ba$52e8b820$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> What type of mouse do you have? > Yes, that was my first question too: > "an optical pad for what kind of mouse?". I had responded to Tom U. offline: > Mouse Systems m4 (on a Sun) John A. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri May 14 08:59:36 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://cd.textfiles.com g. On Thu, 13 May 2004, Don Maslin wrote: > > > A month or so ago, there was considerable scurry to locate a site > that housed the complete archive. Such was found and published, > and I took note and put the URL away for safekeeping. Too safe, > regrettably, as I can not now find it. > > Hopefully, one of you is better organized and can 'refresh' my bad > memory. Thanks!!! > > - don > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 08:59:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: Patrick> So, what devices would give us the largest range of Patrick> possibilties for software compatibilty at the larges size? Patrick> Patrick> In 1970 pdp11 handbook: - no disks, just a teletype and Patrick> papertape reader are listed. Patrick> Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK11/RK05 - Patrick> 2.4MB disk pack - RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack You left out the RC11 and RF11 :-) Patrick> Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RP04 - 100MB Patrick> (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) Nope. RP11 controls the RP03 and RP02 (half of the RP03) drives -- basically IBM 2314 lookalikes. The RP04 is the first PDP11 Massbus disk; it uses the RH11 (or RH70 for 11/70s) controller. It's 88 MB (half of the RP06). Patrick> Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL11/RL01 - 5MB Patrick> disk pack Patrick> Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK06 - RK11, Patrick> 14MB disk pack - RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack - RM02/03 - Patrick> RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack RH11... there is no such thing as RM11. The RK06/07 controller is called RK611. (RK11 is the RK05 controller.) Patrick> Added in 1981/2 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RL02 - 10MB Patrick> disk pack - RP06 - 176MB disk pack - RP07 - 516MB winchester Patrick> - RM05 - 256MB winchester - RM80 - 124MB winchester Patrick> So, it looks like to me the best choices would be an Patrick> RK11/RK05(06,07), an RP11/RP04(05,06,07), an RX11/RX01 and Patrick> and RL11/RL01(02) emulator. If I were to pick a single Patrick> choice right now, I'd probably pick the RP11 controller, for Patrick> the breadth of possible sizes (from 40MB in 1973 to 516MB in Patrick> 1981), and put RL11 as a second choice, simply because I've Patrick> got one. :) RK11/RK05 seems too small to be worthwhile, but Patrick> the RK06 and RK07 aren't bad sizes. So actually that would be the RH11 for max flexibility; that gives you RP04/5/6/7, RM02/3/5, and RM80. You can have up to 8 drives (that's true for most of the others -- but RL11 is limited to 4). Also, two RH11/RH70 controllers per system is a standard config that most DEC operating systems support, while more than one of the other disk controllers isn't. RK11 may be a good choice -- even though the drive is quite small -- for *very* old OS versions. RP11 (RP03 drive) might also serve, but I suspect support for that isn't as common. For example, I know DOS-11 V4 works on RK11, I don't know if there's an RP03 version for it. Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 emulator might be helpful... :-) paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri May 14 09:07:18 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov><200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com><20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> Message-ID: <40658.80.242.32.51.1084543638.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > A new bubble for the spirit level > A long weight > A bucket of steam > A glass hammer > A short stand > some sparks for the grinder tartan paint left-handed hammer/screwdriver -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 09:06:56 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 2004 19:57:02 +0200." Message-ID: <200405141406.i4EE6uR25691@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Ulf Andersson" wrote: >> >Xilinx has embedded PowerPCs inside Virtex-II FPGAs. SDRAM interface is >certailnly possible to arrange on that kind of FPGA, if you need. PCI is >certainly possible to achieve at a cost (money or blood, sweat & tears). These are extremely expensive parts, however... And the support to boot them is non-trivial. (not to mention the number of layers of pcb you'd need just to route the bga signals) I like them, but they are big $$$ -brad From bpope at wordstock.com Fri May 14 08:59:41 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40658.80.242.32.51.1084543638.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from "Witchy" at May 14, 04 03:07:18 pm Message-ID: <200405141359.JAA24215@wordstock.com> And thusly Witchy spake: > > > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > > > A new bubble for the spirit level > > A long weight > > A bucket of steam Hey... this could be a bucket of magic smoke to put in the chips! Cheers, Bryan > > A glass hammer > > A short stand > > > > some sparks for the grinder > tartan paint > left-handed hammer/screwdriver From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 09:09:16 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514090717.0357f278@mail.ubanproductions.com> >The RP04 is the first PDP11 Massbus disk; it uses the RH11 (or RH70 >for 11/70s) controller. It's 88 MB (half of the RP06). Right! That was the one which slipped my mind too. Definitely on the list of interesting controllers to emulate. >Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 >emulator might be helpful... :-) I had considered a TC11, but I'm not sure of the benefits other than it just being interesting... --tom From allain at panix.com Fri May 14 09:16:11 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102BC9@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <00ee01c439be$029f99c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Entirely shocking news to me, I had no idea. Here's some info on him, for those who are left looking for answers. his website: http://xgistor.ath.cx/ (cx = Christmas Island, Australia?) says: "Sipke heeft ons op donderdag 13 mei 2004" (in dutch?) which I take to mean that he passed just yesteday. What little I do know: Sipke was a peaceful, productive and popular member and helped to make being here on the list a better experience. Prayers to you, friend. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 09:19:08 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514090717.0357f278@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16548.54620.93000.350068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: >> Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 >> emulator might be helpful... :-) Tom> I had considered a TC11, but I'm not sure of the benefits other Tom> than it just being interesting... If you want to install DOS V4, it's about the only choice for distribution medium... paul From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri May 14 09:24:22 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> Message-ID: <1084544662.11432.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 08:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > A new bubble for the spirit level > A long weight > A bucket of steam > A glass hammer > A short stand On the submarine we used to send the nubies for sound-powered telephone batteries, 50 feet of waterline, relative bearing grease, and a machinist's punch. Just ask a machinist for a punch some time and see what happens. :-D From allain at panix.com Fri May 14 09:44:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Optical mouse pad References: <000e01c4385a$8e29c250$a0340f14@mcothran1><000701c43860$b1c04440$6402a8c0@home><00f601c438fa$078bd300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><011e01c438fc$632b1b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20040513194355.614e1a8a.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <015d01c439c1$f3d65d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Draw a grid, print it with a 600 dpi laser printer on transparent foil, > mount it on a alu tin sheet. Good one. I suspect the laser-able transparencies will be a little expensive, but I will still check... jea From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 10:00:10 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16548.54620.93000.350068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514090717.0357f278@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514095859.03772160@mail.ubanproductions.com> > >> Speaking of block access devices -- for supporting old OSs, a TC11 > >> emulator might be helpful... :-) > > Tom> I had considered a TC11, but I'm not sure of the benefits other > Tom> than it just being interesting... > >If you want to install DOS V4, it's about the only choice for >distribution medium... Ok. Then that should be in the list as well. I've never had any experience with DOS V4, but that doesn't mean that it isn't interesting. --tnx --tom From vrs at msn.com Fri May 14 10:05:40 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: > > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > > better choices? > > The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB addressing > range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds (far > faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, and > about $4.00 in single lots. I'm not finding those. Where are you seeing/getting them? Closest that I found were some other 68Ks that were in the $8-$10 range. Vince From mtapley at swri.edu Fri May 14 09:55:46 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <200405141243.i4EChRhc089746@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405141243.i4EChRhc089746@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... AOL Subscription CD's. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 10:18:48 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 08:05 AM 5/14/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > > > better choices? > > > > The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB addressing > > range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds >(far > > faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, and > > about $4.00 in single lots. > >I'm not finding those. Where are you seeing/getting them? Closest that I >found were some other 68Ks that were in the $8-$10 range. I've been using the MC68VZ328PV in my designs of late. It is a 68k derivative, has a nice set of I/O, and is cheap. I did have problems locating a source for single quantities, so I just bought a tray of 60... They are TQFP 144, so they don't have the problems that a BGA package does for prototype work. The MC68EZ328 is another version which is slightly slower and has less I/O. The GCC compiler tools work well with these as they are 68k based. --tom From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri May 14 10:33:24 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1084548804.5971.25.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Not to wander too far off topic and IANAL but I'd suggest that *anyone* who is worried about the fate of their collection (or anything in their estate for that matter) talk to a lawyer and have their wishes recorded in their will (you do have one?). That's what they're for. On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 06:47, Jay West wrote: > Fred wrote... > > It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very > > untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The > > Netherlands. > > Very sad. My thoughts are with him and his family. > > It does make me think... what should happen to my prized/cherished > collection if I die suddenly. On the one hand, I'd prefer it to go free to > listmembers who have helped me over the years, not the local smelter. On the > other hand, my wife has put up with the hobby for so long - and bit her lip > often when I spent "her" money on collection items. I would definitely want > some money for the collection or parts of it (my gorgeous dual bay 8E and > dual bay HP2000 would no doubt fetch "serious" money) to go to my wife. Just > to let her know some of it was actually worth something. Yes, you can all > take a copy of this email to my wife if I go suddenly as proof of my wishes > :) She would have NO clue how to go about dispersing the collection, who to > talk to, etc. I wouldn't mind an H8 or two going free to listmembers, but I > can't stand the thought of some non-listmember, just someone off the > street - offering her $5 for a pristine H8 and walking off with it cause she > wouldn't know any better. > > Of course, not only the collection, but I'd have to arrange for someone to > take over ownership of this list.... > > Maybe the best route is for me to contact several list members and give them > my general wishes, and then let them take care of the entire disposition of > the collection. Just writing it up in a will isn't sufficient, I would want > someone I know knows what they are dealing with to be the one directing it. > Time for reflective thought methinks. > > Jay West > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- TTFN - Guy From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 14 10:31:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Jay West wrote: > Fred wrote... > > It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very > > untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The > > Netherlands. > > Very sad. My thoughts are with him and his family. Yes, I'm sorry to hear this. > It does make me think... what should happen to my prized/cherished > collection if I die suddenly. On the one hand, I'd prefer it to go free to > listmembers who have helped me over the years, not the local smelter. On the > other hand, my wife has put up with the hobby for so long - and bit her lip > often when I spent "her" money on collection items. I would definitely want > some money for the collection or parts of it (my gorgeous dual bay 8E and > dual bay HP2000 would no doubt fetch "serious" money) to go to my wife. Just > to let her know some of it was actually worth something. Yes, you can all > take a copy of this email to my wife if I go suddenly as proof of my wishes > :) She would have NO clue how to go about dispersing the collection, who to > talk to, etc. I wouldn't mind an H8 or two going free to listmembers, but I > can't stand the thought of some non-listmember, just someone off the > street - offering her $5 for a pristine H8 and walking off with it cause she > wouldn't know any better. > > Of course, not only the collection, but I'd have to arrange for someone to > take over ownership of this list.... > > Maybe the best route is for me to contact several list members and give them > my general wishes, and then let them take care of the entire disposition of > the collection. Just writing it up in a will isn't sufficient, I would want > someone I know knows what they are dealing with to be the one directing it. > Time for reflective thought methinks. What I will do (and keep swearing I'll do before every plane flight) is actually start a will and assign a specific executor for the computer archive with someone whom I know and can trust to do the right thing, taking numerous desires into consideration. It's a bit more complicated in my case, not only due to size but also because of some specific ideas of what I would want to happen to the archive. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 14 10:39:52 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405141039.52793.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 14 May 2004 08:59, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: > Patrick> Added in 1973/4 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK11/RK05 - > Patrick> 2.4MB disk pack - RP11/RP03 - 40MB disk pack > > You left out the RC11 and RF11 :-) Intentionally, trust me. I didn't think they'd be terribly useful, at their sizes > Patrick> Added in 1975 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RP04 - 100MB > Patrick> (presumably same RP11 interface as RP03) > > Nope. RP11 controls the RP03 and RP02 (half of the RP03) drives -- > basically IBM 2314 lookalikes. > > The RP04 is the first PDP11 Massbus disk; it uses the RH11 (or RH70 > for 11/70s) controller. It's 88 MB (half of the RP06). Ok, the handbooks didn't say either way, so I assumed incorrectly. > Patrick> Added in 1978/9 pdp11 peripherals handbook: - RK06 - RK11, > Patrick> 14MB disk pack - RK07 - RK11, 28MB disk pack - RM02/03 - > Patrick> RM11 MASSBUS interface, 67MB disk pack > > RH11... there is no such thing as RM11. > The RK06/07 controller is called RK611. (RK11 is the RK05 > controller.) More things that the handbooks don't seem to say. Argh. How different is an RK611 from an RK11 at a programming perspective? Is the RK611 a superset, such that you could pretend it's an RK11? Or not? > So actually that would be the RH11 for max flexibility; that gives > you RP04/5/6/7, RM02/3/5, and RM80. You can have up to 8 drives > (that's true for most of the others -- but RL11 is limited to 4). > Also, two RH11/RH70 controllers per system is a standard config that > most DEC operating systems support, while more than one of the other > disk controllers isn't. Ok, then maybe an RH11 and RP11. > RK11 may be a good choice -- even though the drive is quite small -- > for *very* old OS versions. RP11 (RP03 drive) might also serve, but > I suspect support for that isn't as common. For example, I know > DOS-11 V4 works on RK11, I don't know if there's an RP03 version for > it. Hmm. Things I didn't know about, and couldn't consider. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 14 10:48:17 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514074618.03555eb8@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514074618.03555eb8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405141048.17582.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 14 May 2004 08:45, Tom Uban wrote: > >So, what devices would give us the largest range of possibilties for > >software compatibilty at the larges size? > > I'm thinking RK11 and RP11. I'd tend to agree with that, and add at least an RH11 (massbus) controller to that, so you have access to large-ish disks (RP07/516MB). As a starting place, I'd probably use an RL11 as the programming interface looks very simple (4 registers) and I've got a real one that I can test against. > >If we're to use a microcontroller to run this board, then it'd be > >possible to have "changable firmware", and either change it to > > emulate the type of device you want, or to emulate multiple > > devices. On second thought, you probably don't need a > > microcontroller for that, but it seems easier than going the > > FPGA/PLD route to do it. > > An FPGA would potentially allow for a large number of registers all > in a single package, that could be "re-wired" as necessary after the > design was completed. If discrete logic is used for the registers, > then the design will end up being fixed. A micro-controller would > allow for the management of the disk space independent of the PDP-11. Right. I'd consider doing this with a couple of PALs and a microcontroller for my first run at it. After working with FPGAs at school, I vehemently hate having to write VHDL for them. As well, PALs use cheaper development tools, and are usually cheaper for small, simple designs, and if you chose the right ones (AMD's PALCE line), they're easily erasable. > I'm not sure how much it matters if the emulated controllers match up > with the physical ones that we have or not. An RL11 shouldn't be much > more difficult than an RK11 emulation. In fact, I think it'd be simpler, but I haven't looked closely at it yet, so I might be wrong. > >For the actually data storage, I think you'll want to use flash or a > >writeable hard drive (perhaps even a 2.5" laptop IDE drive mounted > > on the UNIBUS controller card). It seems novel to have a 8 > > (emulated drive) x 516MB (4GB total) UNIBUS storage card that takes > > up a single SPC slot. > > > >Hey Tom, have you started at all on your RK11 emulator? Want to > > compare notes on this? > > I've started thinking more about it, so if that counts... I've also > been collecting people's comments on the idea over the years. When I > get started in earnest depends on what my schedule ends up looking > like this summer. Ahh, you're about where I am with this. With any luck, I should be able to start working on this really soon, perhaps as soon as this weekend. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 10:56:17 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) References: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1084548804.5971.25.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <019b01c439cb$fe49a4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Guy wrote... > Not to wander too far off topic and IANAL but I'd suggest that *anyone* > who is worried about the fate of their collection (or anything in their > estate for that matter) talk to a lawyer and have their wishes recorded > in their will (you do have one?). That's what they're for. I agree with what Guy is saying in principal... and there has to be something in the official legal document of the will. However here's the part I'm not so sure can be adressed that way. There are two problems I see with this. My wishes for the collection may well change frequently, and the collection itself may change frequently as to contents through trades, midlife crisis's, wild hairs to get rid of stuff, or suddenly pick up another listmembers entire collection, etc. So I think the exact wishes for disposal as well as what constitutes "the collection" will change way too often, and who wants to update the legal document that frequently? I was thinking that more than likely, the people I rub elbows on the list with most frequently not only have the basic knowledge of what is worth something and what isn't, and how to best dispose of it... but just through idle conversations/emails they are most likely to know how I would have wanted the collection to be dealt with. They would probably be the ones most likely to have "kept up with" my thoughts and wishes. I certainly can't tell my wife (or lawyer) who know nothing about computers and collection my thoughts on each item. They'd be disinterested at the least just on the basis of sheer volume. So I am wondering if it wouldn't be best to list several specific listmember friends in the will as executors of anything computer related, and that's it for the legal document. Then trust that said friends will have the compassion for the hobby to make the best decisions about the final disposition of the collection. There may be one or two specific items in the collection I have specific wishes for. Those can be part of the will. But the bulk of it I couldn't begin to put specific wishes on each item. That I think you just have to find a collector you trust to make the best call. If you have a specific wish for the entire collection, that can easily be adressed in a will. But in my case, I don't want the entire collection going to one place, I want it broken up to as many people as possible. That makes a simple line item in the will pretty unfeasible. Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 11:23:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513210800.03724c90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514074618.03555eb8@mail.ubanproductions.com> <200405141048.17582.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <16548.62074.921480.344993@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: Patrick> I'd tend to agree with that, and add at least an RH11 Patrick> (massbus) controller to that, so you have access to Patrick> large-ish disks (RP07/516MB). As a starting place, I'd Patrick> probably use an RL11 as the programming interface looks very Patrick> simple (4 registers) and I've got a real one that I can test Patrick> against. Yes, but one of them is the "multi-purpose" register which is pretty strange. The older controllers are far more sane. Patrick> Right. I'd consider doing this with a couple of PALs and a Patrick> microcontroller for my first run at it. After working with Patrick> FPGAs at school, I vehemently hate having to write VHDL for Patrick> them. As well, PALs use cheaper development tools, and are Patrick> usually cheaper for small, simple designs, and if you chose Patrick> the right ones (AMD's PALCE line), they're easily erasable. Take a look at Lattice. They have CPLDs which are either oversized PALs or undersized FPGAs, whichever view you prefer. The basic tools aren't that expensive. And they support a design language called "Abel-HDL" as well as VHDL and Verilog. I've used it; worked quite well. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 11:25:05 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <20040513093653.548e40dd.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405140041.49264.pat@computer-refuge.org> <16548.53460.819000.357674@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200405141039.52793.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <16548.62177.910819.943160@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: Patrick> On Friday 14 May 2004 08:59, Paul Koning wrote: >> You left out the RC11 and RF11 :-) Patrick> Intentionally, trust me. I didn't think they'd be terribly Patrick> useful, at their sizes Having used both, I would agree... (Same goes for RS03/RS04). Patrick> More things that the handbooks don't seem to say. Argh. Patrick> How different is an RK611 from an RK11 at a programming Patrick> perspective? Is the RK611 a superset, such that you could Patrick> pretend it's an RK11? Or not? Not. They are unrelated -- no more similarly than any of the other classic (pre-MSCP, non-RL11) controllers. There's a commonality of style, but that's about it. paul From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri May 14 11:27:10 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: <200405141243.i4EChRhc089746@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1084552030.11432.8.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 10:55, Mark Tapley wrote: > > I need names for 50 kinds of cargo for a SPACE TRADER game... > > My imagination gave out after the first 8-10 ... > > AOL Subscription CD's. Uhm, wouldn't carrying those make you vulnerable to attack? From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 14 12:00:58 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) References: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><1084548804.5971.25.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <019b01c439cb$fe49a4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001d01c439d5$07f090c0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I've been through several iterations of wills over the years, and I make an effort to have an "addendum" or "attachment" that lists individual items or collections of items and the person that they are to go to. I have numerous old things, some items that have been in the family for 155+ years (wedding china from 1846, my great grandfather's violin/fiddle from around 1840, old family pictures from the 1800s, my dad's toy trains from the 1930s, for example), and I don't want certain things to get in the wrong hands and end up at a yard sale, or portraits from 1875 ending up hanging on the wall at Cracker Barrel as a nameless face from the past. I will admit that I don't always keep my list up to date, but this is a good way to do things and is perfectly legal, or so my lawyer friends tell me. You can change the list as things in your life change. Just get rid of the old list and attach the new one to all copies of the will. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: Re: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) > Guy wrote... > > Not to wander too far off topic and IANAL but I'd suggest that *anyone* > > who is worried about the fate of their collection (or anything in their > > estate for that matter) talk to a lawyer and have their wishes recorded > > in their will (you do have one?). That's what they're for. > > I agree with what Guy is saying in principal... and there has to be > something in the official legal document of the will. > > However here's the part I'm not so sure can be adressed that way. There are > two problems I see with this. My wishes for the collection may well change > frequently, and the collection itself may change frequently as to contents > through trades, midlife crisis's, wild hairs to get rid of stuff, or > suddenly pick up another listmembers entire collection, etc. So I think the > exact wishes for disposal as well as what constitutes "the collection" will > change way too often, and who wants to update the legal document that > frequently? > > I was thinking that more than likely, the people I rub elbows on the list > with most frequently not only have the basic knowledge of what is worth > something and what isn't, and how to best dispose of it... but just through > idle conversations/emails they are most likely to know how I would have > wanted the collection to be dealt with. They would probably be the ones most > likely to have "kept up with" my thoughts and wishes. I certainly can't tell > my wife (or lawyer) who know nothing about computers and collection my > thoughts on each item. They'd be disinterested at the least just on the > basis of sheer volume. > > So I am wondering if it wouldn't be best to list several specific listmember > friends in the will as executors of anything computer related, and that's it > for the legal document. Then trust that said friends will have the > compassion for the hobby to make the best decisions about the final > disposition of the collection. There may be one or two specific items in > the collection I have specific wishes for. Those can be part of the will. > But the bulk of it I couldn't begin to put specific wishes on each item. > That I think you just have to find a collector you trust to make the best > call. If you have a specific wish for the entire collection, that can easily > be adressed in a will. But in my case, I don't want the entire collection > going to one place, I want it broken up to as many people as possible. That > makes a simple line item in the will pretty unfeasible. > > Regards, > > Jay West > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 14 10:41:45 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040513181911.173d13fc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040514174145.0727c851.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 13 May 2004 19:57:02 +0200 "Ulf Andersson" wrote: > > I have no PeeCee and I refuse to tuch M$ Bloat+Bugware. > We are all admitted to have an opinion, no matter how unpractical... > ;) Well. If there is no other practical way I would use a WinPeeCee, but only in the way of a tool / appliance. Switch on, do work, switch off. I don't need it for anything else. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 14 10:34:19 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405141306.i4ED6d624539@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <20040513201650.6c3f2a1f.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405141306.i4ED6d624539@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040514173419.5b2c8da9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 14 May 2004 09:06:39 -0400 Brad Parker wrote: > yes, but you also need to worry about back-to-back accesses by the > unibus cpu. the 'card micro' needs to be able to get in and do it's > magic between the unibus cpu's two cycles... > > i.e. bus locking... Sure. But when your CPLD is complex enough (or if it is a FPGA) you can implement the controler lookalike logic in the CPLD hardware. E.g. the already mentioned fixed value read only bits in a read / write CSR. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vrs at msn.com Fri May 14 12:29:53 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: > > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > > > > better choices? > > > > > > The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB addressing > > > range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds > >(far > > > faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, and > > > about $4.00 in single lots. > > > >I'm not finding those. Where are you seeing/getting them? Closest that I > >found were some other 68Ks that were in the $8-$10 range. > > I've been using the MC68VZ328PV in my designs of late. It is a 68k derivative, > has a nice set of I/O, and is cheap. I did have problems locating a source > for single quantities, so I just bought a tray of 60... They are TQFP 144, so > they don't have the problems that a BGA package does for prototype work. The > MC68EZ328 is another version which is slightly slower and has less I/O. The > GCC compiler tools work well with these as they are 68k based. I found those at $28 each (qty 1), but that seems pretty high for a microcontroller. That's at least half the parts budget, for most of the projects I am thinking of. So I still have the "where" question :-). TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach that to my homemade PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools than I do. Vince From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri May 14 12:40:16 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> > Vince said: > I found those at $28 each (qty 1), but that seems > pretty high for a > microcontroller. That's at least half the parts > budget, for most of the > projects I am thinking of. So I still have the > "where" question :-). > > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach > that to my homemade > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools > than I do. > http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm It works, according to my own XC95144XL (TQ100) experience. vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri May 14 13:11:33 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040514110731.Q69471@newshell.lmi.net> > > > metric crescent wrench > > > rubber nails > > > spotted paint > > > (all of which actually exist) > > I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? > > Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? length. Crescent wrenches (both generic and (R)) are normally identified by length. 6" and 8" crescent wrenches are commonplace; 150mmm and 200mm ones are less common. > And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? nail up rubber weatherstripping ("rubber" is referring to their use, not their composition) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 14 13:13:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405131724.i4DHOjrQ003030@mail.bcpl.net> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C22@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040514141308.0087f610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:24 PM 5/13/04 -0400, you wrote: >On 13 May 2004 at 9:57, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > >> Only a very minor detail, but I beleive that the certain Zilog chip >> designations also indicate the max clock speed. For instance the >> Z0800110PSC is a Z8001 (Z08001.. portion), with a max clock speed of >> 10MHz (..10.. portion).... > >The 1983 Zilog databook "Ordering Information" section designates speed >grades by letter suffix. No suffix is 4 MHZ, "A" is 6.0 MHz, and "B" is 10 >MHz, so a 10 MHz Z8001 in a plastic DIP with a 0-to-70 C temperature range >would be ordered as "Z8001B PS". > >However, two things occurred to me: > > 1. The parts predate or postdate the databook sufficiently that the > ordering codes had changed. Are there obvious date codes on the chips? This one is dated 9509. I haven't checked any others. FWIW there is a 20.000MHz crystal right next to the CPU so I'm guessing that the CPU runs at 20MHz and that that's what the "C" suffix means. The CPU is in a plastic package so "PS" sounds correct for the package. > > 2. The parts aren't Zilog issue at all, but rather AMD (a second-source). > Are there obvious Zilog (stylized "Z") or AMD (up/right-pointing > arrow) logos on the parts? Nope, they are Zilog parts. Joe From vrs at msn.com Fri May 14 13:20:15 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach > > that to my homemade > > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools > > than I do. > > > http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm > It works, according to my own XC95144XL (TQ100) > experience. I'd heard of that, but haven't had the need/guts to try it yet. Vince From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 13:26:03 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <036e01c439e0$ea3f6fe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written... > > http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm oh my! I've been staying away from anything surfacemount, but this looks like a great way to get into that! The first thing coming to mind that the above solution gives to me.. is the ability to do the I/O board add-on for the SBC6120 which uses a large surfacemount chip or two. Awesome! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 14 13:32:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16549.4305.784932.708415@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "vrs" == vrs writes: >> > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach > that to my >> homemade > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools > >> than I do. Nothing to it. You need a fine tip soldering iron, thin solder, liquid flux, a good light, and a magnifying glass. Oh yes, your PCB should have solder mask. I've built a board with several fine pitch PQFPs and about 100 0603 capacitors, among other small stuff, using exactly those tools. Works just fine. paul From marvin at rain.org Fri May 14 13:44:41 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <036e01c439e0$ea3f6fe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <40A51399.D67E0672@rain.org> Jay West wrote: > > It was written... > > > http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm > > oh my! I've been staying away from anything surfacemount, but this looks > like a great way to get into that! The first thing coming to mind that the I started using surface mount components several years ago, and now I *hate* having to use leaded components. The smallest spacing I have soldered is an ICS525 with .025" lead spacing, and that really is no problem now. Just use a small soldering tip and small solder; I use .015". Just make sure your soldering tip is in *excellent* condition! One of these days, I'll be able to afford a MetCal unit (about $125 on the used equipment market or more if you want better :).) Another advantage of surface mount components; they take up a LOT LESS inventory space :). From tomj at wps.com Fri May 14 13:50:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: COSMAC BASIC hex dump Message-ID: <1084560606.1943.18.camel@dhcp-250048.mobile.uci.edu> I just moved my lab (ugh) and all it's contents (kilopounds), and inevitably paused to look at junk along the way, and found my RCA COSMAC DEVELOPMENT KIT manual. It's got a hex listing (remember those) for a tiny BASIC for the 1802. If it's not already commonly available I'll (postal) mail a copy so's you can have all the true vintage experience of typing in hex dumps then finding the errors. I quite distinctly recall the abominable process of typing in ANIMALS or somesuch nonsense from the SWTP docs way back when. Ugh. Wouldn't wish it on anyone, and no, it did not build character. From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 13:53:47 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514134908.03786d68@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 10:29 AM 5/14/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > > > > > better choices? > > > > > > > > The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB >addressing > > > > range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds > > >(far > > > > faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, >and > > > > about $4.00 in single lots. > > > > > >I'm not finding those. Where are you seeing/getting them? Closest that >I > > >found were some other 68Ks that were in the $8-$10 range. > > > > I've been using the MC68VZ328PV in my designs of late. It is a 68k >derivative, > > has a nice set of I/O, and is cheap. I did have problems locating a source > > for single quantities, so I just bought a tray of 60... They are TQFP 144, >so > > they don't have the problems that a BGA package does for prototype work. >The > > MC68EZ328 is another version which is slightly slower and has less I/O. >The > > GCC compiler tools work well with these as they are 68k based. > >I found those at $28 each (qty 1), but that seems pretty high for a >microcontroller. That's at least half the parts budget, for most of the >projects I am thinking of. So I still have the "where" question :-). Ouch! I think I payed $6.281 each for my tray of 60 parts, which I consider a pretty good price for what it does. >TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach that to my homemade >PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools than I do. I run Cadsoft Eagle and I've used the part on a two layer board. The Eagle tools work pretty well and they have 3 levels, including a free set that limits you to a smaller board and fewer layers. Over the years, I eventually upgraded to the professional version so that I could do any size board that I want. I did not purchase the autorouter -- I think humans are better at it. --tom From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 14 14:37:52 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <16549.4305.784932.708415@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <16549.4305.784932.708415@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405141437.52378.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 14 May 2004 13:32, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "vrs" == vrs writes: > >>>>> > >> > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach > that to > >> > my > >> > >> homemade > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools > > >> than I do. > > Nothing to it. You need a fine tip soldering iron, Even better, get a nice wide spade-tip for the soldering iron, so you can heat multiple pins at once. Once you get the hang of it you can "drag" the iron down along the part with the solder, and solder an IC *very* quickly. I learned that trick in my senior design class. I used to be afraid of surface-mount parts, but I am no longer (except programmable things or using them in breadboards, which end up requiring expensive adaptor sockets) Of course, the fine tip is useful for some things, such as through-hole devices, but you can do pretty much everything you'll need with a spade tip. > thin solder, > liquid flux, a good light, and a magnifying glass. Oh yes, your PCB > should have solder mask. > > I've built a board with several fine pitch PQFPs and about 100 0603 > capacitors, among other small stuff, using exactly those tools. > Works just fine. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 14 14:43:59 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405141443.59448.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 14 May 2004 12:29, vrs wrote: > I found those at $28 each (qty 1), but that seems pretty high for a > microcontroller. That's at least half the parts budget, for most of > the projects I am thinking of. So I still have the "where" question > :-). Arrow.com has MC68VZ328's in stock for about $10 each, single quantity. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pcw at mesanet.com Fri May 14 14:47:43 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ___________________________________________________________________ > > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach that to my homemade > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools than I do. > > Vince > Hand soldeing TQFP* is easy and only requires a decent soldering iron, and lots and lots of flux.. (surface tension make it easy) Peter Wallace From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 14 14:52:04 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:33 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 2004 11:20:15 PDT." Message-ID: <200405141952.i4EJq4u28806@mwave.heeltoe.com> "vrs" wrote: >> > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach >> > that to my homemade >> > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools >> > than I do. >> > >> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm >> It works, according to my own XC95144XL (TQ100) >> experience. > >I'd heard of that, but haven't had the need/guts to try it yet. I draw the line at 100 pins and use a hot air rework tool :-) more than 100 pins and I send it to a pro (color me chicken) -brad From pcw at mesanet.com Fri May 14 14:54:43 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <200405141437.52378.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Friday 14 May 2004 13:32, Paul Koning wrote: > > >>>>> "vrs" == vrs writes: > > >>>>> > > >> > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach > that to > > >> > my > > >> > > >> homemade > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools > > > >> than I do. > > > > Nothing to it. You need a fine tip soldering iron, > > Even better, get a nice wide spade-tip for the soldering iron, so you > can heat multiple pins at once. Once you get the hang of it you can > "drag" the iron down along the part with the solder, and solder an IC > *very* quickly. I learned that trick in my senior design class. I > used to be afraid of surface-mount parts, but I am no longer (except > programmable things or using them in breadboards, which end up > requiring expensive adaptor sockets) > > Of course, the fine tip is useful for some things, such as through-hole > devices, but you can do pretty much everything you'll need with a spade > tip. The "miniwave" process that you describe is what I've always done I find that a small tip is more likely to cause damage to pads so I always use a 1/16 or 3/32 spade tip. The real secret is lots of flux so the solder is clean and retains its surface tension... Small solder is actually worse since it tends to carry more oxide, so I usually use .032" > > > thin solder, > > liquid flux, a good light, and a magnifying glass. Oh yes, your PCB > > should have solder mask. > > > > I've built a board with several fine pitch PQFPs and about 100 0603 > > capacitors, among other small stuff, using exactly those tools. > > Works just fine. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From jpl15 at panix.com Fri May 14 14:56:51 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: OT: Surface mount Message-ID: I used to be quite disdainful / semi-scared-of SMD tech - until I designed a project for work which needed to use it and Marvin Johnston kicked my butt into working with the stuff. In addition to all the other items - I use a fine-tipped Weller adjustable iron, and I bought a nice binocular low-power microscope to work under - my past-half-century eyes need a bit of help with the tiny parts. I also use Eagle Cad for design and layout - such a long way from the tape and cut days of Xacto knives and transfer letters. All in all, I enjoy it very much, the things I'm building are postage-stamp size, and a huge parts inventory can be kept in one small set of plastic bin drawers... Cheers John From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 15:07:41 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <200405141443.59448.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514150635.0366a448@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 02:43 PM 5/14/2004 -0500, you wrote: >On Friday 14 May 2004 12:29, vrs wrote: > > I found those at $28 each (qty 1), but that seems pretty high for a > > microcontroller. That's at least half the parts budget, for most of > > the projects I am thinking of. So I still have the "where" question > > :-). > >Arrow.com has MC68VZ328's in stock for about $10 each, single quantity. Heh! I had always done my search with the PV suffix and that always showed no stock. No reason why the wider temperature range part wouldn't be fine. --tom From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri May 14 15:13:38 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <1084544662.11432.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> <1084544662.11432.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <40A52872.4000204@mdrconsult.com> Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 08:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > >>I can't believe that these ones have been missed: >> >>A new bubble for the spirit level >>A long weight >>A bucket of steam >>A glass hammer >>A short stand > > On the submarine we used to send the nubies for sound-powered telephone > batteries, 50 feet of waterline, relative bearing grease, and a > machinist's punch. Just ask a machinist for a punch some time and see > what happens. :-D In the oilfield in West Texas, we'd send the "worm" - new hire or trainee - to fill up the water table. That's the coolant trough for the line sheaves at the top of the derrick. It requires carrying a 5-gallon bucket of water up a 95-foot ladder (40L bucket, ~30M ladder, for you guys with sane standards) and of course it doesn't exist. When *I* was a new hand and they gave me that bucket, I laughed at them and told them I helped build that derrick, and there wasn't any damn water table on the blueprints. They then told me I was right, and since I was such a smart guy, I could go spent 8 hours in thigh-deep mud, trimming 2-3/8" (what, 7cm?) hardened bolts with a hacksaw. *Those* did exist. :\ The next day, they told me about the 6" pneumatic cutoff wheel they had hidden from me. From vrs at msn.com Fri May 14 15:21:11 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514134908.03786d68@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: > >TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach that to my homemade > >PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools than I do. > > I run Cadsoft Eagle and I've used the part on a two layer board. The Eagle > tools work pretty well and they have 3 levels, including a free set that > limits you to a smaller board and fewer layers. Over the years, I eventually > upgraded to the professional version so that I could do any size board that > I want. I did not purchase the autorouter -- I think humans are better at > it. I use Eagle too. Spent the whole $1200. Maybe whether humans are better at routing depends on the human. It was pretty clear to me that wasn't how I wanted to spend my time, even if I could do a better job, so I am really happy with the autorouter -- I let it handle the "easy" 90 percent of the routing job. I like to make my own PCBs when I can, though -- no solder mask there. Maybe I will try my wings with surface mount using some of these 74f04d I recently inherited :-) Vince. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 15:30:29 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <019b01c439cb$fe49a4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at May 14, 2004 10:56:17 AM Message-ID: <200405142030.i4EKUT7H013324@onyx.spiritone.com> > So I am wondering if it wouldn't be best to list several specific listmember > friends in the will as executors of anything computer related, and that's it > for the legal document. Then trust that said friends will have the > compassion for the hobby to make the best decisions about the final > disposition of the collection. There may be one or two specific items in The one problem I see is finding someone who is geographically close enough to assist in this. Previously there was someone both my wife and my parents knew to contact about my collection if anything happened to me. There no longer is. I have spent some time explaining to my wife how to dispose of things if anything happens to me, and have attempted to let her know what items have value. Simply put, she knows not to toss DEC stuff :^) Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 14 15:32:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <001d01c439d5$07f090c0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > I've been through several iterations of wills over the years, and I make an > effort to have an "addendum" or "attachment" that lists individual items or > collections of items and the person that they are to go to. I have numerous <...> > I will admit that I don't always keep my list up to date, but this is a good > way to do things and is perfectly legal, or so my lawyer friends tell me. > You can change the list as things in your life change. Just get rid of the > old list and attach the new one to all copies of the will. Hmm. What's to stop your evil twin from attaching an addendum listing that all your underwear will go to him? It would seem to me that your attaching an addendum would have to be done in the presence of a lawyer. But, IANAS (for the Brits ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 15:42:25 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514134908.03786d68@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514153741.0366a300@mail.ubanproductions.com> >I use Eagle too. Spent the whole $1200. Maybe whether humans are better at >routing depends on the human. It was pretty clear to me that wasn't how I >wanted to spend my time, even if I could do a better job, so I am really >happy with the autorouter -- I let it handle the "easy" 90 percent of the >routing job. Heh! Well, I didn't want to pay for it either:-) >I like to make my own PCBs when I can, though -- no solder mask there. If you are doing much surface mount, especially with the finer pitch parts, you want a solder mask. >Maybe I will try my wings with surface mount using some of these 74f04d I >recently inherited :-) I bought a used Metcal MX1 on eBay and it is easily the best iron I've ever used! Throw out all of the others. I also have a Bausch & Lomb Stereo Zoom 4 microscope which makes surface mount much easier, at least for my aging eyes. --tom From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 14 15:44:31 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) References: Message-ID: <000801c439f4$42cf6cb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I do believe that it would need to be signed, etc. I can't remember exactly what the lawyer(s) told me, but they said that I could just make a list and attach it to the will, both my copy and the lawyer's copy. I can't remember if he signed it and it was witnessed or not. I suppose it's time to update it again to protect my two new (old) DEC acquisitions. - A P.S. Ok, Brits and others, what's IANAS ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: Re: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) > On Fri, 14 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > I've been through several iterations of wills over the years, and I make an > > effort to have an "addendum" or "attachment" that lists individual items or > > collections of items and the person that they are to go to. I have numerous > <...> > > I will admit that I don't always keep my list up to date, but this is a good > > way to do things and is perfectly legal, or so my lawyer friends tell me. > > You can change the list as things in your life change. Just get rid of the > > old list and attach the new one to all copies of the will. > > Hmm. What's to stop your evil twin from attaching an addendum listing > that all your underwear will go to him? It would seem to me that your > attaching an addendum would have to be done in the presence of a lawyer. > > But, IANAS (for the Brits ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 15:48:52 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) References: <000801c439f4$42cf6cb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <006301c439f4$ddb13c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > P.S. Ok, Brits and others, what's IANAS ? IANAL = I am not a lawyer IANAS = I am not a solicitor british("lawyer") = solicitor --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri May 14 16:08:52 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <036e01c439e0$ea3f6fe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20040514174016.98554.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <036e01c439e0$ea3f6fe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040514210852.GA25414@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 01:26:03PM -0500, Jay West wrote: > It was written... > > > http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm > > oh my! I've been staying away from anything surfacemount, but this looks > like a great way to get into that! The first thing coming to mind that the > above solution gives to me.. is the ability to do the I/O board add-on for > the SBC6120 which uses a large surfacemount chip or two. Awesome! I've looked into the oven technique, but for my IOB6120, I just did all the SMT by hand (but I've done it before). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.2 F (-59.0 C) Windchill -119.1 F (-84 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.9 kts Grid 026 Barometer 694.3 mb (10092. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From als at thangorodrim.de Fri May 14 16:29:53 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20040514212953.GA17476@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 07:37:26AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > > > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) > > > > > > Canned Sunshine > > > Unobtanium ;) > > > Round Tuits > > > > That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on > > fools' errands for... > > > > Muffler Bearings > > Flight Line > > Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher > > Prop Wash > > > > ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. > > > > -ethan > > Skyhooks! Those do (or least did) exist and were used: http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/95unclass/Leary.html Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri May 14 16:31:11 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <000801c439f4$42cf6cb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <000801c439f4$42cf6cb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040514213111.GB25414@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 04:44:31PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > P.S. Ok, Brits and others, what's IANAS ? I Am Not A Solicitor (as opposed to the American 'IANAL') -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-May-2004 21:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -75.2 F (-59.6 C) Windchill -124.1 F (-86.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.7 kts Grid 019 Barometer 694.5 mb (10084. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri May 14 16:45:04 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <20040514214504.GA27099@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:13:05PM -0400, J. David Bryan wrote: > On 12 May 2004 at 7:16, vrs wrote: > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks of this issue, and what *are* the > > better choices? > > The Motorola 68EC000 makes a reasonable microcontroller. 16 MB addressing > range, configurable 8- or 16-bit data bus, a range of operating speeds (far > faster than a 6809), freely available tools, still in full production, and > about $4.00 in single lots. I would certainly be in favor of anything 68000-based... I've been writing 68K assembler since 1985, and have a collection of 68K hardware tools from my days with Software Results (Northwest Instruments bus analyzer, Fluke 9000A w/68K pod...) I realize that these days the 64-pin DIP package is not in favor, but I do happen to have several hundred if not a small number of thousand CPUs in that format. In any case, the instruction set is the real win here, more than the package. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-May-2004 21:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -75.5 F (-59.8 C) Windchill -122.5 F (-85.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.3 kts Grid 022 Barometer 694.2 mb (10096. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri May 14 17:39:04 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040514212953.GA17476@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Alexander > Schreiber > Sent: 14 May 2004 22:30 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... > > > Skyhooks! > > Those do (or least did) exist and were used: > > http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/95unclass/Leary.html True, but the skyhooks we're talking about are the ones tha are used to just suspend things from mid-air, as in "how the hell are we going to make that stay there?" "use a skyhook!" While the object is suspended in mid-air on its skyhook you're free to then get some sparks for the grinder or a bucket of blue steam :o) Cheers w From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 17:46:32 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <20040514213111.GB25414@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 14, 2004 09:31:11 PM Message-ID: <200405142246.i4EMkX4w018814@onyx.spiritone.com> > On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 04:44:31PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > P.S. Ok, Brits and others, what's IANAS ? > > I Am Not A Solicitor (as opposed to the American 'IANAL') > > -ethan As opposed to the US where it would be "I Am Not A Shyster" :^) Zane From f.heite at hccnet.nl Fri May 14 18:10:47 2004 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal Message-ID: <200405142310.i4ENAjFp018096@smtp30.hccnet.nl> >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" >It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very >untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk I'm very sorry to read that Sipke is no longer with us. About two years ago, he revived my interest in the old SC/MP processor. He was very kind and patient when helping me to get his SC/MP emulator running on my system. Freek Heite. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:31:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040513223718.GA6955@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 13, 4 10:37:18 pm Message-ID: > > It also depends on what you want to do. To me, a classic computer system > > is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well. > > Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as running > > one with a demountable hard disk. > > While in principal I agree, in years gone by, I was unable to do more than > play-load 2BSD on a real 11/24 because my largest Unibus disk (that wasn't Hmmm... Well, if you want to run unix, you might as well get a PC :-), and actually, I do take the point supported by some people here that if you're more interested in the software side of things then you might as well run the old software under emulation. I am unashamedly a hardware person. But that love of hardware goes way beyond just the CPU. I really do want the old peripherals too. Heck, I even use an old VT55 (a real, DECscope, VT55) as my PDP11/45 console. A PC running a terminal emulator is not the same. Although admittedly I do find my HP95LX a very useful pocket terminal for testing/debugging things. > on a UDA-50) was and still is RL02s on an RL11. These days, I have bigger > Unibus CPUs (11/44, 11/70), but in terms of pre-MSCP disks, 10MB is still > a limit for me (fortunately, I can get around this with 2.11BSD on the 11/44 > or the 11/70, but 2.9BSD was it for non Split I&D machines) > > Even though I appreciate and admire the older disks, I'm pretty much stuck > with RK05 and RL01/2. I'd love a solution that emulates _some_ DEC disk I am sure I have at least one Unibus SMD controller that emulates the RK611.... Are they really that hard to find. And I have managed to use Q-bus disk controllers on my 11/45 system (certainly the RLV11) via a DW11-B interface. A bit of a kludge, but it works. > the bill. If I weren't worried about compatibility, I'd probably just > go down to the basement and hack something into a Unibus COMBOARD (68000- > based communication controller w/DMA interface, 16K/32K EPROM, 128K RAM, > 5025 sync UART, 6821 PIA...) I've thought about those stick-in-the-socket \begin{pedant} How can you have a synchronous UART??? Don't you mean a USRT (or USART)? \end{pedant} :-) > interfaces for slotless Amigas - both IDE and SCSI are available. The > one thing that stinks is that for a disk controller, a sync UART is pretty > much useless... I'd consider swapping that out for some other chip. We Oh, I don't know. It was pretty much the main chip of most hard sectored floppy disk interfaces :-) > It's pretty well documented in the DEC "Bus Handbook" - I have it on paper > at home, and I'm pretty sure it's on bitsavers - I know I've seen it online > somewhere. > > We just went with the DEC bus chips, not an option these days, though, unless > like me, you happen to have a pile of 8641s and DC013s... Unless your Unibus is really loaded, you can get away using open-collector TTL chips as drivers and TTL schmitt triggers as receivers. Of course you still need lots of chips for the bus address counter, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:33:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405132258.i4DMwFZi015254@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at May 13, 4 03:58:15 pm Message-ID: > Getting the tapes read would be a good thing. 1/4" carts? If this is like my S8000 (model 30 I think) system, then yse, 1/4" cartridges, DC300s IIRC. I believe the format is 4 track QIC11. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 19:00:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <1084548804.5971.25.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> from "Guy Sotomayor" at May 14, 4 08:33:24 am Message-ID: > > Not to wander too far off topic and IANAL but I'd suggest that *anyone* > who is worried about the fate of their collection (or anything in their > estate for that matter) talk to a lawyer and have their wishes recorded > in their will (you do have one?). That's what they're for. YEs, and they also charge a lot of money for this sort of thing. Enough that I'd probably have to sell at least one of my larger machines to pay for said will... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:37:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: from "Ron Hudson" at May 13, 4 04:02:42 pm Message-ID: > Polka dot paint - There is a Navy story about a guy sent for that - he > used to work for Dupont (big paint people) > and brought back a mixture of oil and water based paints - spray on... > Polka dots (actually I think it would make > little speckles if anything...) I was once sent out for a 'bucket of steam'. I realised it was a joke, of course, and decided to have a bit of fun in return. I got a bucket and put about 1" depth of water in the bottom. I went back to the person who'd sent me out for it, and splashed it over him with the comment 'Sorry, it condensed on thw way up here' :-) Another old one is 'A can of pneumatic fluid', although a mad friend of mine uses that term to refer to the cans of compressed air used for removing dust. And, of course the 'metric screwdriver', although in my experience, screwdrivers for metric screws are thinner than those for inch-sized screws with the same width of blade. I actually have both in my toolkit... -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 14 19:13:31 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "Re: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition)" (May 14, 15:48) References: <000801c439f4$42cf6cb0$a0340f14@mcothran1> <006301c439f4$ddb13c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10405150113.ZM6385@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 14, 15:48, Jay West wrote: > > P.S. Ok, Brits and others, what's IANAS ? > IANAL = I am not a lawyer > IANAS = I am not a solicitor > > british("lawyer") = solicitor Well, we have always used the term "lawyer" as well. A solicitor is a particular kind of lawyer (and there's a difference between Scotland and England). But in this context, yes, it would be a solicitor who would handle wills and the like. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 14 19:07:17 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: Front panel controller In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "Re: Front panel controller" (May 14, 15:52) References: <200405141952.i4EJq4u28806@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10405150107.ZM6377@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 14, 15:52, Brad Parker wrote: > > "vrs" wrote: > >> > TQFP-144...I guess I could figure out how to attach > >> > that to my homemade > >> > PCB...something tells me you have way nicer tools > >> > than I do. > >> > > >> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm > >> It works, according to my own XC95144XL (TQ100) > >> experience. > > > >I'd heard of that, but haven't had the need/guts to try it yet. > > I draw the line at 100 pins and use a hot air rework tool :-) I don't have a proper SMD hot air fab/rework station (though I know a man who does). I do have a thermostatically-controlled hot air gun, and I've used that for a few jobs. One was almost on-topic: I removed two DRAMs from a DIMM and put them on a special one for my 486 laptop, which didn't have enough memory to even install an old Linux distro. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:43:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:34 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 13, 4 09:49:33 pm Message-ID: > And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? The speedometer cable on my father's Citroen is held into the transmission by a rubber pin with a point on one end and a flattened head on the other. I called it the 'rubber nail' when I removed it in order to drop ou the transmission to change the clutch about 6 months ago. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:49:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040514092622.55783ec5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 14, 4 09:26:22 am Message-ID: > > On Thu, 13 May 2004 22:34:22 +0100 (BST) > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > To me, a classic computer system=20 > > is more than just the CPU. The peripherals are part of it as well.=20 > > Running a PDP11 with flash memory mass storage is not the same as > > running one with a demountable hard disk.=20 > Very true. The sound of a spinning disk...=20 And of the headcrash ... :-) > But I have only one RK07 medium. So I can not benefit from the > posibility to swap media. > And: Disk drives are prone to fail. Lots of mechanical stuff that weres > out much faster then electronic. The ideal solution is to have the solid Mechanical parts can be rebuilt....Some of them (although admittedly probably not the really precision parts for a hard disk drive) can be made in a good home workshop. Certainly fan and motor bearings can be rebuilt at home. I hate to say this, but you're proposing replacing one device (the old disk drive) with maintenance problems with another device with even worse maintenance problems (do you believe that CF cards and the same FPGAs will be available in 20 years time??) > > > I don't know. I suspect that I would need a FPGA for bus glue logic > > DEC managed with a handful of TTL.=20 > Sure. But a FPGA is run time reconfigurable so I can emulate what ever Provided you have the compiler software and something to run it on... Personally, I find a soldering iron to be a lot easier to use (and quicker for small changes, bug fixes, etc) than any FPGA software I've seen. And it's certainly a lot easier to keep a soldering iron working than a PC... > interface I want. I can even emulate multiple different interfaces at > the same time as a FPGA has enough complexity. (Maybe a RK07 and a TS11) A hardwired logic system could do that too. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:57:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal (collection disposition) In-Reply-To: <00a401c439ba$055567c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at May 14, 4 08:47:38 am Message-ID: > > Fred wrote... > > It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very > > untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The > > Netherlands. > > Very sad. My thoughts are with him and his family. Indeed. My condolences, too, to his family. > > It does make me think... what should happen to my prized/cherished > collection if I die suddenly. On the one hand, I'd prefer it to go free to > listmembers who have helped me over the years, not the local smelter. On the > other hand, my wife has put up with the hobby for so long - and bit her lip > often when I spent "her" money on collection items. I would definitely want > some money for the collection or parts of it (my gorgeous dual bay 8E and > dual bay HP2000 would no doubt fetch "serious" money) to go to my wife. Just I have let my parents (who house my collection) that if anything should happen to me, they are to get in touch with one of my friends (Philip Belben, who used to be on this list) and that he can do essentially what he likes with my computers, cameras, tools, test gear, etc. He is heavily into old computers (and for that matter photography) and would realise that while the box of old PC motherboards is not particularly valuable, the boxes of M-series and R-series flip-chip cards most certainly are (I don't necessarily mean 'valuable' in the sense that they can be exchanged for money, rather that they are worth saving for restoring old computers). And that some things, like my box of HP41 modules -- which contains 2 ZenROMs amongst other things -- are well worth grabbing. -tony From jrasite at eoni.com Fri May 14 19:18:31 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <200405141137.HAA32314@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <6599C348-A605-11D8-AE7D-000502453125@eoni.com> On Friday, May 14, 2004, at 04:37 US/Pacific, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: >> >> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 11:20:54AM -0400, Bryan Pope wrote: >>> After Sellam's post I was inspired: ;) >>> >>> Canned Sunshine >>> Unobtanium ;) >>> Round Tuits >> >> That reminded me of all sorts of artifacts that "noobs" are sent on >> fools' errands for... >> >> Muffler Bearings >> Flight Line >> Tape/Film/Lumber Stretcher >> Prop Wash >> >> ... and there's more than I can't remember right now. >> >> -ethan > > Skyhooks! Relative Bearing Grease. (Comes from Naval Stores.) And I once got sent to the tool crib for a "Tap Extractor". Was sure I was on a fool's errand. Nope. There is such a creature. Jim From aek at spies.com Fri May 14 19:39:58 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question Message-ID: <200405150039.i4F0dwBj024355@spies.com> If this is like my S8000 (model 30 I think) system, then yse, 1/4" cartridges, DC300s IIRC. I believe the format is 4 track QIC11. -- I don't think they had more than one kind of cart controller. Have you archived the tapes, or the eproms from your system? I know it's pointless to ask, since you don't have any way to copy them, but do you have the hardware manuals for any of the cards in the system other than the CPU (which I have scanned already) From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri May 14 19:40:53 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Altos 686 In-Reply-To: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon> References: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: <20040514194053.36172939.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:15:56 -0600 "Bill Machacek" wrote: > I just noticed I have an Altos 686 (without a cover) PC in my stack of 'old computer stuff'. It's s model 25A with one 5 1/4 inch floppy drive and a Seagate ST225 hard drive. Is this one of Altos computers that people are interested in or something that needs to be scrapped? Thanks for any help you can give me. > Bill Machacek > I once had an Altos 586. It was called that because it used an 8086 processor and had five serial console ports. Mine ran Microsoft Xenix (from before SCO) in 512K of RAM. I passed it on to someone in Florida who wanted it more. I imaged the OS installation floppies as best I could at the time, but have no idea if they were even 'legit' images. My 586 ran _Microsoft_ Xenix as indicated all through the binaries. It was a pretty impressive box, with support for five users on dumb terminals, with an 8086 processor and only 512K of RAM. Sometimes I wish I had held onto it just as concrete evidence that _Microsoft_ produced an authentic Unix port. So many people try to hand credit off to SCO. (deep hatred of Microsoft can lead to that kind of thing) Does your machine have a bunch of DB25 jacks on it for multiple terminals? I also once had an Altos 580, which was in a case identical in some respects to the 586, except it was an 8080 machine with similar terminal ports, and ran CP/M. From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri May 14 20:08:58 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Altos 686 Message-ID: <200405150108.i4F18whc098643@huey.classiccmp.org> >My 586 ran _Microsoft_ Xenix as indicated all through the binaries. It was a pretty >impressive box, with support for five users on dumb terminals, with an 8086 processor >and only 512K of RAM. Sometimes I wish I had held onto it just as concrete evidence >that _Microsoft_ produced an authentic Unix port. So many people try to hand credit >off to SCO. (deep hatred of Microsoft can lead to that kind of thing) > >Does your machine have a bunch of DB25 jacks on it for multiple terminals? > >I also once had an Altos 580, which was in a case identical in some respects to the >586, except it was an 8080 machine with similar terminal ports, and ran CP/M. I had several Nabu 1200's, a Canadian built machine which was also an 8086 with 512K of RAM - 4 serial ports. Also ran Microsoft XENIX. Actually, you could run CP/M 86, QNX (a Canadian nix-alike) or Xenix - Xenix was the only one of the three which required an optional external (to the CPU) memory management unit board. I still have 1/2 of a Nabu - the machine consisted of two parts, a DISK unit which held the hard drive, WD controller and an 80-track floppy drive, and the CPU unit which sat on top. I got one of my CPU units back, however the disk unit is remaining elusive. If you are interested, you can view the CPU unit (inside and out) at my web page (see sig). Regards, Dave-- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri May 14 20:08:58 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Need help with Sparc-1 (SUN) Message-ID: <200405150108.i4F18whc098644@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Gang, Recently acquired an old Sun SPARCstation-1. It boots! - but I don't know the root password - Guy who gave it do me did so because he was moving, and I can't locate him now. Got Solaris 2.6 CD/docs with it, so I figured I'd just reinstall a fresh system. Can't get it to boot from CD. When I power on the system, hit STOP-A to get to the boot prompt, then do: boot sd(0,6,2) It thinks a while, then I see one access to the CD, and I get the message: (From memory so not exact quote but pretty close): "The magic character in the label is incorrect. The file loaded, but it does not appear to be executable". Tried everything I can think of, but this is the only response I am able to get which involves any CD activity at all. Same procedure works perfectly on a Sparc-2 - boots right up off the CD. I'm assuming that this CD works on the Sparc-1, because A) it came from the same source at the same time (not a guarantee), and B) It's GOT Solaris 2.6 already booting on it (I just can't login) - I'm guessing that it was installed from this CD. Also tried a Solaris 2.7 CD that I have onhand - exactly the same result. Anyone have any insight to offer? Regards, Dave Dunfield -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri May 14 20:08:58 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? Message-ID: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> Also got a SPARC-5 - indeterminate condition - no drives - no memory. Can anyone tell me what I need for memory in a SPARC-5? I know there are different versions of the S-5 - here is the info from the label on the bottom: Model number: 544, Service code; 55, PN: 600-3853-01 SN: 546F0085 The board has 8 168-pin DIMM sockets at the front lefthand side of the board (looking from top/front), and running parallel to the front of the machine. Physically, PC 168-pin DIMMS can "almost fit", but the notches are just slightly in the wrong place - I have no idea if they are electrically compatible or not (I'd guess not - I tried this just for physical comparison only). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 14 19:56:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tektronix site Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040514205607.00961dd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From anheier at owt.com Fri May 14 19:58:30 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: DEC 11-750 boards available Message-ID: I have some Vax 11-750 boards available for sale. They are all in reasonable shape, but are not guaranteed functional. They are as follows: L0001 L0002 L0003 L0004 (2 each) L0008 YA (2 each) L0010 L0022 (2 each) I would like $15 each or $125 for all of them + shipping Let me know if you are interested. Thanks Norm From anheier at owt.com Fri May 14 20:03:34 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: More DEC boards available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have (3) M8750 CJ DEC memory boards packed and ready to ship. The buyer for these disappeared. I can ship these anywhere in the CONUS for $8 ground. I would like $15 for each board. The boards are all in reasonable shape, but are not guaranteed functional. Thanks Norm From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 14 20:01:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Altos 686 In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098643@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040514210141.008af220@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:08 PM 5/14/04 -0500, you wrote: >>My 586 ran _Microsoft_ Xenix as indicated all through the binaries. It was a pretty >>impressive box, with support for five users on dumb terminals, with an 8086 processor >>and only 512K of RAM. Sometimes I wish I had held onto it just as concrete evidence >>that _Microsoft_ produced an authentic Unix port. So many people try to hand credit >>off to SCO. (deep hatred of Microsoft can lead to that kind of thing) >> >>Does your machine have a bunch of DB25 jacks on it for multiple terminals? >> >>I also once had an Altos 580, which was in a case identical in some respects to the >>586, except it was an 8080 machine with similar terminal ports, and ran CP/M. > >I had several Nabu 1200's, a Canadian built machine which was also an 8086 with 512K >of RAM - 4 serial ports. Also ran Microsoft XENIX. Actually, you could run CP/M 86, >QNX (a Canadian nix-alike) or Xenix - Xenix was the only one of the three which >required an optional external (to the CPU) memory management unit board. I have a pair of Tandy 6000HDs. They run MicroSloth XENIX and I've been told that they can run CPM from one of the other TRS machines. IIRC they use a 68000 to run XENIX but they boot on a Z-80 and that's what they run the CPM on. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 14 20:04:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405150039.i4F0dwBj024355@spies.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Al Kossow wrote: Tony said this: > If this is like my S8000 (model 30 I think) system, then yse, 1/4" > cartridges, DC300s IIRC. I believe the format is 4 track QIC11. Al said this: > I don't think they had more than one kind of cart controller. > Have you archived the tapes, or the eproms from your system? > > I know it's pointless to ask, since you don't have any way to > copy them, but do you have the hardware manuals for any of the > cards in the system other than the CPU (which I have scanned > already) Are you asking me or Tony? I'll assume you're asking me (I don't know that Tony has one of these). I haven't really played with it since I rescued it. But it's in good shape and is accessible currently, which is a bonus. So taking advantage of its accesibility, I just dug through it's lower cabinet area, which is used for storage. I re-discovered that I have what looks to be a complete spare board set. Also in there were the install tapes and a box of still shrinkwrapped DC300A carthridges. The install tapes are as follows: SADIE 3.5 OPERATING SYSTEM & UTILITIES ZEUS 3.2 Rev. J SYSGEN PROCEDURE (hand labeled) Tomorrow would be a good day to come by and visit if you want to retrieve these and perhaps play with the system. I've got a bunch of people coming in and out throughout the day, and I'll be in my office all day working on projects. Since you've never been here then it might be worthwhile. Let me know... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cvisors at gmail.com Fri May 14 20:14:09 2004 From: cvisors at gmail.com (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <6599C348-A605-11D8-AE7D-000502453125@eoni.com> References: <6599C348-A605-11D8-AE7D-000502453125@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004 17:18:31 -0700, Jim Arnott wrote: > > Relative Bearing Grease. (Comes from Naval Stores.) > > And I once got sent to the tool crib for a "Tap Extractor". Was sure I > was on a fool's errand. Nope. There is such a creature. > > > Jim My Favorite ones were the long weight, and the reproduction tool. Unfortunately I can't remember too many of the other stupid tools I had been sent to get.. Benjamin From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 14 20:31:13 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040514134908.03786d68@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514153741.0366a300@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <00f101c43a1c$4f671ef0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Tom wrote... > I bought a used Metcal MX1 on eBay and it is easily the best iron I've > ever used! Throw out all of the others. I also have a Bausch & Lomb Stereo > Zoom 4 microscope which makes surface mount much easier, at least for my > aging eyes. I'm not familiar with Metcal units. How would the MX1 compare with the Weller WES51 I recently bought? Also, I have a lamp magnifier... one of those lighted magnifiers on a elbow arm you clamp to your desk. Invaluable to me for small work. Mine is missing one of the two springs, so I'm out looking for a new one. I found a truely nice one for $55 that has two separate flourescent bulbs on each side (I strongly prefer flourescent lights for that rather than the cheap incandescent units). I'm thinking these would have to be better than a stereo microscope (which I've never used)??? Wouldn't it be hard to position boards and such under that? Jay West From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Fri May 14 20:39:06 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Helping a Neighbor - Need Syquest SyJet (IDE) Driver SQATDRVR.SYS (DOS) Message-ID: <003701c43a1d$69304450$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> I'm helping a neighbor who's helping a neighbor. He's trying to get a Syquest SyJet IDE drive running under DOS (the neighbor->neighbor has a bunch of DOS games she loves to play). Does anyone have a Syquest SyJet IDE driver for MS-DOS? After a bit of Googling, it would seem the file might be called SQATDRVR.SYS. It's possible to set the BIOS parameters so the drive can be seen/read that way, but cartridges can't be removed when it's done this way. Apparently the driver facilitates that. If there's an accompanying utility that mounts and/or dismounts the volume, I suppose it would be necessasry to have that too. TIA! --Patrick From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 20:46:48 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> from "Dave Dunfield" at May 14, 2004 08:08:58 PM Message-ID: <200405150146.i4F1kmQB023887@onyx.spiritone.com> > Also got a SPARC-5 - indeterminate condition - no drives - no memory. > > Can anyone tell me what I need for memory in a SPARC-5? Sparc 5's are great little boxes, I use one for OpenBSD, and it rocks (well it helps I have plently of Sun parts. There is one HUGE downside to the Sparc 5 though, and that is that it takes special memory. For a Sparc 5, you need Sparc 5 RAM, which tends to be expensive, even on eBay last I looked (though the systems are getting old enough that may no longer be true). Oh, for drives, you need the same drive brackets that a Sparc 20 uses. Or you can run with a single SCA drive sitting in the bottom, just don't go moving the system around. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 20:48:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405150039.i4F0dwBj024355@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at May 14, 4 05:39:58 pm Message-ID: > > > > If this is like my S8000 (model 30 I think) system, then yse, 1/4" > cartridges, DC300s IIRC. I believe the format is 4 track QIC11. > > -- > > I don't think they had more than one kind of cart controller. > Have you archived the tapes, or the eproms from your system? Not yet... I may have done the EPROMs (I will have to look), but I know I've not done the tapes. > > I know it's pointless to ask, since you don't have any way to > copy them, but do you have the hardware manuals for any of the > cards in the system other than the CPU (which I have scanned > already) I have a hardward manual for the Model 10/Model 11 I think. This covers all the cards in those machines, and gives link settings and pinouts, but no schematics. One day I might get round to drawing them out (at least all the chips are standard from what I remember. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 14 21:05:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040514220556.008e4680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:08 PM 5/14/04 -0500, you wrote: >Also got a SPARC-5 - indeterminate condition - no drives - no memory. > >Can anyone tell me what I need for memory in a SPARC-5? > >I know there are different versions of the S-5 - here is the info from the >label on the bottom: > >Model number: 544, Service code; 55, PN: 600-3853-01 SN: 546F0085 >The board has 8 168-pin DIMM sockets at the front lefthand side of the >board (looking from top/front), and running parallel to the front of >the machine. > >Physically, PC 168-pin DIMMS can "almost fit", but the notches are just >slightly in the wrong place - I have no idea if they are electrically >compatible or not (I'd guess not - I tried this just for physical >comparison only). > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 14 21:13:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: Need help with Sparc-1 (SUN) In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098644@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040514221346.008e8d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:08 PM 5/14/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Gang, > >Recently acquired an old Sun SPARCstation-1. >It boots! - but I don't know the root password - Guy who gave it do me >did so because he was moving, and I can't locate him now. > >Got Solaris 2.6 CD/docs with it, so I figured I'd just reinstall a >fresh system. > >Can't get it to boot from CD. >When I power on the system, hit STOP-A to get to the boot prompt, >then do: > boot sd(0,6,2) > >It thinks a while, then I see one access to the CD, and I get the message: >(From memory so not exact quote but pretty close): > >"The magic character in the label is incorrect. The file loaded, but it > does not appear to be executable". > >Tried everything I can think of, but this is the only response I am able >to get which involves any CD activity at all. > >Same procedure works perfectly on a Sparc-2 - boots right up off the CD. > >I'm assuming that this CD works on the Sparc-1, because A) it came from the >same source at the same time (not a guarantee), and B) It's GOT Solaris 2.6 >already booting on it (I just can't login) - I'm guessing that it was >installed from this CD. > >Also tried a Solaris 2.7 CD that I have onhand - exactly the same result. > >Anyone have any insight to offer? A lot of the older SGIs and Suns required that the CD drive DEFAULT to 512 bytes/block or else they won't work. The newer systems issue a SCSI command to the drive to set it to 512 bytes/block but the older ones didn't issue the command and if the drive didn't default to that then you wouldn't work. On some drives like the Toshiba 3401s you could change the jumpers to control the number of bytes/block that it defaulted to. Just a quess but I could be completely wrong. Joe > >Regards, >Dave Dunfield >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri May 14 22:53:29 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:35 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier In-Reply-To: <00f101c43a1c$4f671ef0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514134908.03786d68@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514153741.0366a300@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514224102.0366c250@mail.ubanproductions.com> >I'm not familiar with Metcal units. How would the MX1 compare with the >Weller WES51 I recently bought? I don't know much about the WES51, but the Metcal is an RF driven device and it heats up immediately and maintains the temperature of the specific tip very well. The tips are as easy to change as sliding one out and another on in. The full model number of the unit I purchased is an Metcal MX-500P-11, and I paid $250. My understanding is that there are a couple of Metcal models to avoid, possibly the SP200, but I'm not certain. I have a couple if different tips, including a very fine conical tip and a fine J tip which is good for removing parts. >Also, I have a lamp magnifier... one of those lighted magnifiers on a elbow >arm you clamp to your desk. Invaluable to me for small work. Mine is missing >one of the two springs, so I'm out looking for a new one. I found a truely >nice one for $55 that has two separate flourescent bulbs on each side (I >strongly prefer flourescent lights for that rather than the cheap >incandescent units). I'm thinking these would have to be better than a >stereo microscope (which I've never used)??? Wouldn't it be hard to position >boards and such under that? They make a nice stand for the stereo microscope which allows the board to be placed pretty much anywhere under the lens. They also have a very high intensity lamp which runs through a flexible light pipe so that you can position it and aim it where you need it. I don't have either of these, but my friend does and they are both nice. I will probably have to find both at some point. The nice thing about the microscope is that you can really magnify down to the nitty gritty and see what you need to see. --tom From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri May 14 20:34:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040515013416.GA12487@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 08:08:58PM -0500, Dave Dunfield wrote: > Physically, PC 168-pin DIMMS can "almost fit", but the notches are just > slightly in the wrong place - I have no idea if they are electrically > compatible or not (I'd guess not - I tried this just for physical > comparison only). They don't fit because they aren't supposed to fit - SPARC-5 DIMMs are 5V, PC DIMMs are 3.3V. I picked up some 32MB SPARC5 DIMMs a few years ago on eBay for, ISTR, $10 each. They won't be as cheap as PC memory because they are not as common. Your choices are 32MB or 8MB. A full boat is 256MB. I don't recall the Sun 501-xxxx numbers, but you should be able to Google for them. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-May-2004 01:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.5 F (-57.5 C) Windchill -142.1 F (-96.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.7 kts Grid 358 Barometer 694.2 mb (10096. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From donm at cts.com Fri May 14 23:06:17 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Helping a Neighbor - Need Syquest SyJet (IDE) Driver SQATDRVR.SYS (DOS) In-Reply-To: <003701c43a1d$69304450$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > I'm helping a neighbor who's helping a neighbor. He's trying to get a > Syquest SyJet IDE drive running under DOS (the neighbor->neighbor has a > bunch of DOS games she loves to play). > > Does anyone have a Syquest SyJet IDE driver for MS-DOS? After a bit of > Googling, it would seem the file might be called SQATDRVR.SYS. It's > possible to set the BIOS parameters so the drive can be seen/read that way, > but cartridges can't be removed when it's done this way. Apparently the > driver facilitates that. If there's an accompanying utility that mounts > and/or dismounts the volume, I suppose it would be necessasry to have that > too. Patrick, a google search results in a number of sites that suggest that they have a driver. Have you checked them? - don From donm at cts.com Fri May 14 23:13:41 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks guys for the assist on the URL. Turns out that I had that one but could not get in the other night and thought that it was a bad URL. It is definitely not! - don From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat May 15 00:15:06 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tektronix site References: <3.0.6.32.20040514205607.00961dd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005b01c43a3b$96fa8b20$d136f604@VAIO> Joe, Thanks! I especially liked the "humor" info. Cool stuff... Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 650-428-0621 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: ; ; "raymond kotoski" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: Interesting Tektronix site > > > Joe > From dave at mitton.com Sat May 15 00:40:48 2004 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405141701.i4EH1Nhh094266@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040515013737.036a3060@getmail.mitton.com> On 5/14/2004 12:01 PM -0500, cctech-request@classiccmp.org wrote: >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:04:48 -0400 >From: Brad Parker >Subject: Re: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted > > >Paul Koning wrote: > >.... Again, a software emulation may not get there in time. > >Yes, agreed. My plan was to be able to have the cpld "hold off" the >unibus cpu until the micro could "get there in time" in the cases where >that was needed. This is the heart of the shared-register-file-interlock >issue. > > >You might try to cheat by holding off SSYN on the Unibus read until > >any pending CSR fixups are done, but then the microcontroller has a > >rather tight time limit (20 microseconds or so). > >:-) as Homer Simpson says, "good idea, boss!" > >My plan is to try and make that work. 20us is not a huge amount of time >but it is in the relm of the possible. Off the cuff I'd say it would be >tight for a 40mhz pic; it might be easier on an ARM7 with an fiq >interrupt. I plan to simulate the unibus hdl, figure out the window and >plan the micro and it's code around that window. > >-brad Another approach would be to wire the interface to address two different registers; one for read, a different one for write. (use the R/W line to select even/odd words) Still have latency issues, but less likely to show bad bit combinations. Dave. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 15 02:15:32 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal In-Reply-To: <00ee01c439be$029f99c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > his website: http://xgistor.ath.cx/ (cx = Christmas Island, Australia?) > says: "Sipke heeft ons op donderdag 13 mei 2004" (in dutch?) > which I take to mean that he passed just yesteday. "Sipke has left us on Thu, May 13th". *sigh* - later --f From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat May 15 03:17:37 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040514092622.55783ec5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040515101737.2014d3bf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 15 May 2004 00:49:28 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Very true. The sound of a spinning disk...=20 > And of the headcrash ... :-) Don't remind me of the sudden death of my /home disk last week... (I had a backup.) > Mechanical parts can be rebuilt.... Including crashed heads? ;-) > I hate to say this, but you're proposing replacing one device (the old > disk drive) with maintenance problems with another device with even > worse maintenance problems (do you believe that CF cards and the same > FPGAs will be available in 20 years time??) No. But I have the design so I can stick the entire design into a single FPGA in 20 years to rebuild my replacement with then current technology. Programming a FPGA is a lot less expensive then building a new machinical drive. > > Sure. But a FPGA is run time reconfigurable so I can emulate what > > ever > Provided you have the compiler software and something to run it on... I need a workshop and lots of tools to maintain a mechanical drive. This can be expensive too. > Personally, I find a soldering iron to be a lot easier to use (and > quicker for small changes, bug fixes, etc) than any FPGA software I've > seen. Depends, IMHO. > And it's certainly a lot easier to keep a soldering iron working > than a PC... True. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rdd at rddavis.org Sat May 15 09:08:04 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: In Memoriam: Sipke de Wal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040515140804.GC2235@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred N. van Kempen, from writings of Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:20:05AM +0200: > It is with great sadness that I have to announce the sudden and very > untimely death of Sipke de Wal (the Xgistor) of Noordwijk, The > Netherlands. That is indeed very sad news. My condolences to his family and girlfriend (if she was still with him - mentioned on his links page). Looking at his web site, I see that he was quite a philosopher as well as a long-time computer collector who was a great source of inspiration to other computer collectors. Hopefully his web site---which is also quite artistic, or at least his files, writings, etc. can be preserved. It's good to know that his classic computers will continue to be preserved. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat May 15 11:39:39 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040514110731.Q69471@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040514110731.Q69471@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <40A647CB.9080603@mdrconsult.com> Fred Cisin wrote: >>>>metric crescent wrench >>>>rubber nails >>>>spotted paint >>>>(all of which actually exist) >>> >>>I just gotta ask, then, what's metric about a metric crescent wrench? >>>Maximum jaw gape? Overall length? > > length. Crescent wrenches (both generic and (R)) are normally > identified by length. 6" and 8" crescent wrenches are commonplace; > 150mmm and 200mm ones are less common. The thread pitch and diameter of the worm drive is different. That actually matters, since the more expensive adjustables can be rebuilt. You also can't use a metric crescent on SAE nuts. *runs away* Doc From brad at heeltoe.com Sat May 15 12:00:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 2004 22:53:29 CDT." <5.2.0.9.0.20040514224102.0366c250@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200405151700.i4FH0dx04191@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tom Uban wrote: > >>I'm not familiar with Metcal units. How would the MX1 compare with the >>Weller WES51 I recently bought? > >I don't know much about the WES51, but the Metcal is an RF driven device >and it heats up immediately and maintains the temperature of the specific The WES51 is "ok" (I have one), but it's not extremely accurate temp wise and the smallest tips are small, but not extremely sharp. I'd call it the Volkswagon. Dependable, cheap, works well. The Metcal is the Porsche. Nice design, nice egonometrics, very fast, very reliable, really, really nice. just my opinion, but I've used both. (and I'm still kicking myself for not buying a couple of used metcal's for pennies on the dollar a few years ago - what was thinking?!) -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Sat May 15 12:02:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 May 2004 10:17:37 +0200." <20040515101737.2014d3bf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200405151702.i4FH2dt04237@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jochen Kunz wrote: >...(do you believe that CF cards and the same >> FPGAs will be available in 20 years time??) Well, I'm still supporting designs with through hole 16L8 PALS (sad to say). I think I first saw a 16L8 GAL in 1983. (sorry, just had to chime in) -brad From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat May 15 12:02:44 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Altos 686 In-Reply-To: <20040514194053.36172939.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon> <20040514194053.36172939.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <40A64D34.6080607@mdrconsult.com> Scott Stevens wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:15:56 -0600 > "Bill Machacek" wrote: > I also once had an Altos 580, which was in a case identical in some respects to the 586, except it was an 8080 machine with similar terminal ports, and ran CP/M. Linewraps, man, linewraps! I'd have to pull it out of storage to check, but I'm fairly sure my Altos 580 is a Z80, not an 8080. Doc From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat May 15 12:32:22 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: TCP/IP setup under Ultrix on an 11/84... Message-ID: <1084642342.372.11.camel@weka.localdomain> We have a usable RA81 drive for the PDP 11/84 now (whoo!) and stuck Ultrix (3.1.1) on there earlier. The machine has a DELUA Ethernet board in it - not the DEUNA or DEQNA boards mentioned in any of the docs that we have. Anyone know if the board is supported with that release of Ultrix? If so, presumably a kernel rebuild is needed to enable support as it won't be built into the installed kernel? We added in the optional TCP/IP code during system install, but info on the 'net as to how to get networking up and running on these machines seems very thin on the ground. I found the 'netsetup' script but of course that still doesn't give us an actual device in /dev for the board. Any ideas anyone? cheers Jules From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat May 15 13:32:46 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40A647CB.9080603@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: >>> You also can't use a metric crescent on SAE nuts. But you can use it on some of the "nuts" on this list... A quick strick to the top of the head does wonders From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat May 15 13:43:48 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier In-Reply-To: <200405151700.i4FH0dx04191@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200405151700.i4FH0dx04191@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <40A664E4.2020401@jcwren.com> Brad Parker wrote: >Tom Uban wrote: > > >>>I'm not familiar with Metcal units. How would the MX1 compare with the >>>Weller WES51 I recently bought? >>> >>> >>I don't know much about the WES51, but the Metcal is an RF driven device >>and it heats up immediately and maintains the temperature of the specific >> >> > >The WES51 is "ok" (I have one), but it's not extremely accurate temp >wise and the smallest tips are small, but not extremely sharp. I'd call >it the Volkswagon. Dependable, cheap, works well. > >The Metcal is the Porsche. Nice design, nice egonometrics, very fast, >very reliable, really, really nice. > >just my opinion, but I've used both. > >(and I'm still kicking myself for not buying a couple of used metcal's for >pennies on the dollar a few years ago - what was thinking?!) > >-brad > > > I've had a Metcal MX-500 for several years, and along with a RM3E wand, a set of Talons. The Talons are "hot tweezers" and are invaluable for removing Rs, Cs, and SOICs. Along with this I have a Nikon SMZ-2B microscope with a remote light source, a Taiwanese knock-off of the Hakko 852 hot air machine (the Hakko is definitely better), and a EFD 1500 XL paste dispenser (all from eBay!). With this combination, you can do just about everything except BGA. I'm not the least bit afraid of SMT (actually, I've gotten to really hate through-hole, and prefer surface mount), but BGA is serious voodoo. It's the board layout equivalent of doing buried vias. I first "discovered" Metcals 12+ years ago. I was an software engineer at a company, and dabbled in hardware. We had a small manufacturing line with about 6 people on it. Vaugh Equipment Sales called on us, and somehow wound up talking to me. They came in for a demo, and brought a Metcal. I was impressed, and became an immediate advocate. Every company I've worked at has either had Metcals already, or been converted after some campaigning. There's just no comparison. I've used the Hakkos, the Wellers, some other brands, and none even come close to the quality and usability of a Metcal. eBay is a great place to find these. Sometimes they go for too much, and sometimes you can steal one. You want a MX-500, a RM3E wand, a stand, something like a STTC-025 tip (small "normal" tip, for through-hole, connectors, etc), a STTC-040 (30 degree angle fine tip, for SMT), a STTC-117 (similiar to a Weller 100 watt gun tip. Good for heavy ground planes, etc), and one of the hoof tips for drag soldering (it's in a box that hasn't been unpacked from the move, can't remember the number). If you're lucky, and stumble across a Metcal RF Power Meter for under $100, buy it. It's an in-line wattmeter, and can tell you a lot about the health of the base, the tip, and your workload. I've bought tips off of eBay, too. Find someone selling an assortment for of 5 or so used tips for $35. So far, everyone I've dealt with has been accurate and honest about the condition of the tips. The photos should be up-close and clear. The non-MX-500s should generally be avoided. They're getting old, and if they break, Metcal does not repair them anymore. And trust me, you CANNOT fix them yourself. They require specialized tuning equipment. If you repair a Metcal and it gets de-tuned, you'll fry the output drivers, and it'll be truly dead. Sure, you can fix a power switch or something like that, but that's not generally what fails. The SP-200 should also be avoided. It does not use the same tips as the MX series, and the output power is about half (15 watts vs 35). They're not that cost effective to buy, although they're generally better than something like Weller WTC-201 (or whatever is close to that number. WT-something). Metcal has a good article on why these irons are so good. The tip temperature is very precise, and because they're low-mass tips, the respond extremely quickly. They're one of the only irons that are considered to have "self-cleaning" contacts. For MilSpec work, most irons require a calibration procedure any time the tip is changed. This usuallyinvolves cleaning where the tip goes in to the handle, and then checking it on a temperature measuring device. Because the tip of a Metcal is basically a section of transmission line, removing it from the handle cleans the contact area. And last time I checked, Metcal tips were not required to have a temperature check between changings (but they do require a weekly test). One of the other things I really like about a Metcal is how fast you can change a tip. A tip heats up to working temperature in about 10-15 seconds. Turning the iron off, you hold the tip against the sponge for about 10 seconds, and you can remove it with your fingertips. If 10 seconds is too long, a silicon pad comes with a the wand, which allows you to remove the tip while it's still scorching hot. Also, the wand cable is silicon, so you don't have to worry about damaging the cable if you nail it with the iron. They don't, however, take to being slammed in drawers well (this is the single biggest cause of failure, says Metcal). The cable is flexible transmission line, and a crimp creates an impedance bump in the line that causes the iron to be unable to measure the tip temperature correctly. --jc From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Sat May 15 13:48:33 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier References: <200405151700.i4FH04hf005349@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001401c43aad$3968a8d0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I have been using a Metcal soldering station for over a year. (Model PS2E) My previous unit was a Weller WTCPN that I used for 20 years. The Weller is OK but nothing like the Metcal. The Metcal gets up to temperature fast (seconds), this means you can change tips for one solder connection. There is a rubber pad for removing hot tips. It also holds the temperature under heavy use. Get a Metcal. The Weller WTC series uses a magnetic tip to control temperature. When the magnet heats up it loses strength and the heater switch opens, when the magnet cools down the switch closes.. This works but it makes it difficult to solder jumpers to restore cuts in PCB traces. Capacitor leads are often made of steel. The lead wants to stick the tip. Another thing is the WTC irons produce a lot of electrical line noise as the heater power cycles. In the early 1980s we were designing a digital instrument that would reset (lockup) when used on the same power circuit as our soldering irons. Seeing as how most of our customers would have a soldering iron next to our unit we had to fix this. We rigged a Weller WTC soldering station with the iron replaced by a relay that cycled on and off as a noise generator. A power line filter on our instrument fixed the problem. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat May 15 13:54:52 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin > Sent: 15 May 2004 19:33 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: A little help from my friends... > > >>> You also can't use a metric crescent on SAE nuts. > > > But you can use it on some of the "nuts" on this list... > > A quick strick to the top of the head does wonders Ah yes, the LART. Fortunately I haven't had need for one in my new job yet, but then again I've only been there for 2 weeks :) Cheers w From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat May 15 14:54:50 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200405151554.51017.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 14 May 2004 21:08, Dave Dunfield wrote: > Also got a SPARC-5 - indeterminate condition - no drives - no memory. > > Can anyone tell me what I need for memory in a SPARC-5? Computer Recyclers has a large number of sparc 5 and axils at the moment. I was there today picking up another metro rack. Is anyone familiar with an Extel AE or AF teleprinter? Mike - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFApnWKLPrIaE/xBZARAioHAKDOfiJbuZyDwttWJx6cO26qocnG1gCfc2fE l1COqaBfroiJ7x8PlEkEFr4= =HpV8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 15 15:41:50 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Altos 686 In-Reply-To: <40A64D34.6080607@mdrconsult.com> References: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon> <20040514194053.36172939.sastevens@earthlink.net> <40A64D34.6080607@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040515154150.394888bd.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sat, 15 May 2004 12:02:44 -0500 Doc Shipley wrote: > Scott Stevens wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:15:56 -0600 > > "Bill Machacek" wrote: > > > I also once had an Altos 580, which was in a case identical in some > > respects to the 586, except it was an 8080 machine with similar > > terminal ports, and ran CP/M. > > > Linewraps, man, linewraps! > > > I'd have to pull it out of storage to check, but I'm fairly sure my > > Altos 580 is a Z80, not an 8080. > > > Doc You're probably right. I should have just said 'the 580 was an 8-bit CP/M machine.' There weren't that many 8080 machines in the later years of CP/M, i.e. the Altos 580 time period. By then everyone had switched to the Z80. And Intel was hyping the 8085. Were there many other machines besides the Tandy 100 that used the 8085? From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 15 16:01:56 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <1084544662.11432.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> References: <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <200405131520.LAA24529@wordstock.com> <20040513211401.GB32679@bos7.spole.gov> <5.1.0.14.2.20040514132839.01a0c288@slave> <1084544662.11432.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20040515160156.1ae01b5c.sastevens@earthlink.net> On 14 May 2004 10:24:22 -0400 Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 08:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > I can't believe that these ones have been missed: > > > > A new bubble for the spirit level > > A long weight > > A bucket of steam > > A glass hammer > > A short stand > > On the submarine we used to send the nubies for sound-powered > telephone batteries, 50 feet of waterline, relative bearing grease, > and a machinist's punch. Just ask a machinist for a punch some time > and see what happens. :-D > Back in the days when I would actually sit in a chatroom, I used to recommend people who were asking about issues with their computer if they'd had a mechanic install grease fittings on their hard drive yet. Other people watching would get all alarmed and warn the newbie that I was BSing them. Spoilsports. That's what chat rooms are for, isn't it? From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 15 16:23:26 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: TCP/IP setup under Ultrix on an 11/84... In-Reply-To: <1084642342.372.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 May 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > We have a usable RA81 drive for the PDP 11/84 now (whoo!) and stuck > Ultrix (3.1.1) on there earlier. 3.1.1? That sounds like my release, since DEC's ended with V3.1. > The machine has a DELUA Ethernet board in it - not the DEUNA or DEQNA > boards mentioned in any of the docs that we have. Cool! > Anyone know if the board is supported with that release of Ultrix? If > so, presumably a kernel rebuild is needed to enable support as it won't > be built into the installed kernel? DELUA is DEUNA, as far as the driver is concerned. Just set it up for de0 (DEUNA) support, rather than qe0 (DEQNA/DELQA.) > We added in the optional TCP/IP code during system install, but info on > the 'net as to how to get networking up and running on these machines > seems very thin on the ground. I found the 'netsetup' script but of > course that still doesn't give us an actual device in /dev for the > board. Contact me offlist for help- I maintain Ultrix-11, so should probably know :) --f From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat May 15 16:37:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier References: <200405151700.i4FH04hf005349@huey.classiccmp.org> <001401c43aad$3968a8d0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <003e01c43ac4$d5368ea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> People wrote... > The Weller WTC series uses a magnetic tip to control temperature. When the > magnet heats up it loses strength and the heater switch opens, when the > magnet cools down the switch closes.. This works but it makes it difficult > to solder jumpers to restore cuts in PCB traces. Capacitor leads are often > made of steel. The lead wants to stick the tip. > > Another thing is the WTC irons produce a lot of electrical line noise as the > heater power cycles. In the early 1980s we were designing a digital > instrument that would reset (lockup) when used on the same power circuit as > our soldering irons. Seeing as how most of our customers would have a > soldering iron next to our unit we had to fix this. We rigged a Weller WTC > soldering station with the iron replaced by a relay that cycled on and off > as a noise generator. A power line filter on our instrument fixed the > problem. > Aren't these shortcomings in the older weller irons, and in the cheaper WTC irons? I wasn't talking about the WTC irons. I was talking about the WES 51 specifically, which I don't believe has these issues. Jay From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat May 15 16:59:38 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Need help with Sparc-1 (SUN) Message-ID: <200405152159.i4FLxchc006776@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, >>Recently acquired an old Sun SPARCstation-1. >>Can't get it to boot from CD. > A lot of the older SGIs and Suns required that the CD drive DEFAULT to >512 bytes/block or else they won't work. The newer systems issue a SCSI >command to the drive to set it to 512 bytes/block but the older ones didn't >issue the command and if the drive didn't default to that then you wouldn't >work. On some drives like the Toshiba 3401s you could change the jumpers >to control the number of bytes/block that it defaulted to. Just a quess >but I could be completely wrong. Thanks! That was exactly the problem. Dug around in my parts and found a Toshiba 3401 and cut the required traces to make it default to 512 byte blocks, and the machine booted right up - installing from the CD as I type (and it looks like it going to take a while....) Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat May 15 17:43:53 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <20040515160156.1ae01b5c.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Scott Stevens > Sent: 15 May 2004 22:02 > To: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: A little help from my friends... > > Other people watching would get all alarmed and warn the > newbie that I was BSing them. Spoilsports. > > That's what chat rooms are for, isn't it? Yup, as well as telling 'em they need an upgrade to the fluffle valve or a replacement flux capacitor or gigglepin resistor. Now as for a widget.....they really existed didn't they......inasmuch as a 'they don't exist' type of way.....it's like the UK 'doofer' as in 'that'll do fer that' and the pretty much global 'gofer' Wasn't the widget invented as a generic term in corporate presentations? Cheers w From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 15 18:29:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40A647CB.9080603@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at May 15, 4 11:39:39 am Message-ID: > The thread pitch and diameter of the worm drive is different. That > actually matters, since the more expensive adjustables can be rebuilt. You mean there are some you can't get parts for. I guess those are the sort of tools I wouldn't consider owning. > > You also can't use a metric crescent on SAE nuts. One of my adjustables (yes, I do admit to owning one :-)) has a scale along the boddy with a line on the moving jaw. This gives the jaw opening, of course. I've only ever seen them calibrated in mm (which makes it a 'metric adjustable spanner', I guess...) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 15 18:20:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040515101737.2014d3bf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 15, 4 10:17:37 am Message-ID: > Don't remind me of the sudden death of my /home disk last week...=20 > (I had a backup.) > > > Mechanical parts can be rebuilt.... > Including crashed heads? ;-) Hmmm.. Certainly the heads can be replaced at home, but that assumes you have the right replacements. I think making heads is beyond a home workshop, but I would love to be proved wrong (and probably will be sometime -- _never_ underestimate what a hacker can do if he tries...) > > > I hate to say this, but you're proposing replacing one device (the old > > disk drive) with maintenance problems with another device with even > > worse maintenance problems (do you believe that CF cards and the same > > FPGAs will be available in 20 years time??) > No. But I have the design so I can stick the entire design into a single > FPGA in 20 years to rebuild my replacement with then current technology. Anybody who believes that designs will port to a new FPGA without problems has almost certainly never tried to do this. I speak from bitter experience... > Programming a FPGA is a lot less expensive then building a new > machinical drive. That depends on thw tools you have and what you'd need to get. Certainly programming an FPGA for me would be _very_ expensive and time-consuming. I think I could make a floppy drive (not a hard drive...) -- apart from the heads themselves -- in less time, and certainly for less cost. > > Personally, I find a soldering iron to be a lot easier to use (and=20 > > quicker for small changes, bug fixes, etc) than any FPGA software I've > > seen.=20 > Depends, IMHO. I have bitter memories of compiles that took all night, and which had totally mangled my circuit so I then had to spend a day or so sorting out the mess. And then repeating when I needed to make some small change. No thanks... -tony From aw288 at osfn.org Sat May 15 19:07:51 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <16543.40310.119000.506477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > What is "archival ink"? Archival inks are generally made with old formulas using mineral based pigments (like the carbon black you mentioned), rather than synthetic dyes. You can now get archival color ink cartridges for inkjets, but the price is pretty steep (ask your favorite artist about how much a good tube of a red costs - no wonder they are starving!). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat May 15 19:19:19 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A6B387.7020400@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: >> The thread pitch and diameter of the worm drive is different. That >>actually matters, since the more expensive adjustables can be rebuilt. > > > You mean there are some you can't get parts for. I guess those are the > sort of tools I wouldn't consider owning. Exactly. >> You also can't use a metric crescent on SAE nuts. > > One of my adjustables (yes, I do admit to owning one :-)) has a scale > along the boddy with a line on the moving jaw. This gives the jaw > opening, of course. I've only ever seen them calibrated in mm (which > makes it a 'metric adjustable spanner', I guess...) I had a '69 Triumph T100C - single-carb 500cc twin - that was SAE on body parts, metric on engine peripherals and drive-train, and the engine itself was all Whitworth. I spent more on tools than I did on parts with that bike. I used my 4" Snap-On crscent a lot, too. :\ Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 15 20:07:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40A6B387.7020400@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at May 15, 4 07:19:19 pm Message-ID: > I had a '69 Triumph T100C - single-carb 500cc twin - that was SAE on > body parts, metric on engine peripherals and drive-train, and the engine > itself was all Whitworth. I spent more on tools than I did on parts > with that bike. My Myford Super 7 Lathe (about 7 years old) has a seemingly random mix of Whitworth (BSW), BA, and metric screws. Mind you, you do get a toolkit (spanners, allen keys, oil gun, C-spanner for the headstock bearings, etc) with it, so it's not so bad.... -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 15 21:27:08 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? In-Reply-To: <200405151554.51017.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> <200405151554.51017.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: >Computer Recyclers has a large number of sparc 5 and axils at the moment. >I was there today picking up another metro rack. I Think that the Axil's actually take standard 72-pin RAM, rather than Sparc 5 RAM (despite otherwise being basically the same thing). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 15 21:27:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Z8000 data sheets posted Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040515222706.00879790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> David Bryan has scanned the data sheets for the following Z8000 parts; CPU (1.1 MB), MMU (0.7 MB), SCC (0.9 MB), CIO (1.0 MB), CGC (0.3 MB). I've posted them on my website at . Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 15 21:29:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Need help with Sparc-1 (SUN) In-Reply-To: <200405152159.i4FLxchc006776@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040515222936.008d7ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:59 PM 5/15/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >>>Recently acquired an old Sun SPARCstation-1. >>>Can't get it to boot from CD. > >> A lot of the older SGIs and Suns required that the CD drive DEFAULT to >>512 bytes/block or else they won't work. The newer systems issue a SCSI >>command to the drive to set it to 512 bytes/block but the older ones didn't >>issue the command and if the drive didn't default to that then you wouldn't >>work. On some drives like the Toshiba 3401s you could change the jumpers >>to control the number of bytes/block that it defaulted to. Just a quess >>but I could be completely wrong. > >Thanks! That was exactly the problem. Cool! That was a lucky guess! Joe From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat May 15 21:48:16 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: QBUS block mode timing question Message-ID: <20040516024816.12032.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> When the bus master requests block mode DMA, it inserts BS7 when inserting the first DIN. If the slave is capable of block mod DMA, it inserts REF when inserting RPLY. The master removes BS7 when inserting the last DIN to finish the block mode DMA. My question is, what will happen if the master finishes the DMA cycle early? The same question is, what will happen if the master keeps BS7 inserted when inserting the last DIN? Will the slave malfunction? It seems a small violation of the protocol. It seems the bus master needs to predict the availability of Data otherwise. Thanks. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat May 15 21:51:40 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: Z8000 data sheets posted In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040515222706.00879790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040516025140.42834.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> I have one Z-FIO chip. It is documented in a Zilog book. --- "Joe R." wrote: > David Bryan has scanned the data sheets for the > following Z8000 parts; > CPU (1.1 MB), MMU (0.7 MB), SCC (0.9 MB), CIO (1.0 > MB), CGC (0.3 MB). I've > posted them on my website at > . > > Joe > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat May 15 22:04:45 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A6DA4D.4040606@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: >> I had a '69 Triumph T100C - single-carb 500cc twin - that was SAE on >>body parts, metric on engine peripherals and drive-train, and the engine >>itself was all Whitworth. I spent more on tools than I did on parts >>with that bike. > > > My Myford Super 7 Lathe (about 7 years old) has a seemingly random mix of > Whitworth (BSW), BA, and metric screws. Mind you, you do get a toolkit > (spanners, allen keys, oil gun, C-spanner for the headstock bearings, > etc) with it, so it's not so bad.... Sometimes you just have to wonder "What were they *thinking*?" Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Sat May 15 23:36:45 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: References: <16543.40310.119000.506477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040516043644.GG2235@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Sat, May 15, 2004 at 08:07:51PM -0400: > Archival inks are generally made with old formulas using mineral based > pigments (like the carbon black you mentioned), rather than synthetic > dyes. You can now get archival color ink cartridges for inkjets, but the > price is pretty steep (ask your favorite artist about how much a good tube > of a red costs - no wonder they are starving!). Does any type of archival-quality toner exist? After a few years, the pages from some laser printouts to stick together and some of the toner comes off onto the pages opposite, so this sort of defeats using acid-free paper. One related thought... seeing that toner is available in a magnetic formulation, if a type of that exists that doesn't cause pages to stick together, then, perhaps data, encoded in some way, could be printed out on acid-free paper and retrieved at some later point in time by using a something like an over-sized card-reader or a tape head of some sort that can, after several passes, scan an entire page. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Sat May 15 23:35:56 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <20040516043644.GG2235@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Does any type of archival-quality toner exist? After a few years, the > pages from some laser printouts to stick together and some of the > toner comes off onto the pages opposite, so this sort of defeats > using acid-free paper. The problem is that the toner never penetrates the fibres of the paper, as inks do. The actual toner material is apparently very stable, but because of the bonding problem, no right minded archivest can recommend toner based printouts. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 15 23:51:48 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:36 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405160455.AAA20673@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Does any type of archival-quality toner exist? [...] > The problem is that the toner never penetrates the fibres of the > paper, as inks do. The actual toner material is apparently very > stable, but because of the bonding problem, no right minded > [archivist] can recommend toner based printouts. Couldn't this be dealt with by painting the printed side of the page with a sealant of some kind, a thin shellac or varnish or some such? Maybe print on unsized paper (lack of sizing shouldn't matter for laser printing precisely because toner doesn't soak in the way ink does) and apply the sizing after printing? (I don't know enough about paper sizing to know whether this is a ludicrous suggestion....) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat May 15 23:59:22 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search References: Message-ID: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:35 AM Subject: Re: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search > > Does any type of archival-quality toner exist? After a few years, the > > pages from some laser printouts to stick together and some of the > > toner comes off onto the pages opposite, so this sort of defeats > > using acid-free paper. > > The problem is that the toner never penetrates the fibres of the > paper, as inks do. The actual toner material is apparently very stable, > but because of the bonding problem, no right minded archivest can > recommend toner based printouts. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > If your thinking of having printouts that last your lifetime I would think a laser printer using standard photocopying paper (has a smooth side to it that the toner sticks on) would work just fine. Best method of saving manuals is to digitize them and transfer them to new media every 10-20yrs in a format that can be read at the time of transfer. In a hundred years the world will be speaking and writing Hindu or whatever dialect is popular in China and India so anything you save wont be appreciated by anybody but the mandarin Indiana Jones type archeologist anyway. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat May 15 23:57:57 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405160505.BAA20722@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I think making heads is beyond a home workshop, but I would love to > be proved wrong (and probably will be sometime -- _never_ > underestimate what a hacker can do if he tries...) Like the person I met - "she", not "he", incidentally, and one of the very few really good hackers I've met - who made her own multilayer PCBs, from scratch. When I expressed astonishment, she explained the process in enough detail that I found it believable that she was actually telling the truth. (Basically just paint a thin layer of fiberglass+epoxy, plate it with copper, paint with resist (by hand, heat transfer, photoresist, whatever, to taste), etch, paint another layer, plate, etc, repeat to desired layer count. For plated-through vias (necessary for a multilayer board to be useful), drill before the appropriate plating run(s).) Labour-intensive, yes, but killer hack value. :) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun May 16 00:05:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> References: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> Message-ID: <200405160509.BAA20754@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > In a hundred years the world will be speaking and writing Hindu or > whatever dialect is popular in China and India There's actually an excellent chance, I'd say, that that dialect will be far more similar to today's English than to Maharati or Cantonese or any of the other native Indian or Chinese languages. English is already a lingua franca in parts of the world where you wouldn't expect it - for example, my mother (who spent some years in India) tells that at some pan-Indian event in the middle of last century, everyone spoke English because there was no other interchange language available between the Hindustani-derived speakers from the north and the Devanagri-derived speakers from the south. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun May 16 02:57:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Hmmm.. Certainly the heads can be replaced at home, but that assumes you > have the right replacements. I think making heads is beyond a home > workshop, but I would love to be proved wrong (and probably will be > sometime -- _never_ underestimate what a hacker can do if he tries...) Tony, wouldn't one need a (somewhat :) clean room for such stuff, and (for heads) optical gear and all that?? > Anybody who believes that designs will port to a new FPGA without > problems has almost certainly never tried to do this. I speak from bitter > experience... I still believe (as I just explained in detail to another list member ;-) that such a QUnibus board design should be based on a micro only- the "classic" design, where, if we really have to (read: if the micro is no longer available..) can quickly redesign it with another micro. I'd base it on an Intel chip, *simply because* of their availability by scavenging old PC's. --fred \ From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun May 16 03:17:08 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040516081708.GA21886@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, May 16, 2004 at 09:57:05AM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I still believe (as I just explained in detail to another list > member ;-) that such a QUnibus board design should be based on > a micro only- the "classic" design, where, if we really have > to (read: if the micro is no longer available..) can quickly > redesign it with another micro. I'd base it on an Intel > chip, *simply because* of their availability by scavenging > old PC's. If a uP-based design is what seems appropriate, I'm personally in favor of something more in the 68000-family, but that's because I used to _make_ 680x0-based Qbus and Unibus boards (and still have all the old docs). I'd be not in favor of an Intel design because the CPU chip is _not_ the only important chip on the motherboard - the mobo chipset is as important as the CPU in how a modern machine works. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 16-May-2004 08:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.6 F (-51.5 C) Windchill -117.1 F (-82.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.2 kts Grid 353 Barometer 696.7 mb (10002. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun May 16 04:11:06 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040515101737.2014d3bf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040516111106.09fa22f4.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sun, 16 May 2004 00:20:06 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: [FPGA work] > I have bitter memories of compiles that took all night, and which had > totally mangled my circuit so I then had to spend a day or so sorting > out the mess. And then repeating when I needed to make some small > change. No thanks... I have to admit that I never worked with FPGAs. I work for a company that is producing an embedded product that is based on a StrongARM and has also a FPGA inside. I can't remember that one of our hardware developers ever complained that hard about the FPGA programming software. But maybe the tools they use are very different from yours. AFAIK they use some shematic capturing to design the FPGA, no VHDL or the like. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun May 16 07:46:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Z8000 data sheets posted In-Reply-To: <20040516025140.42834.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040515222706.00879790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040516084639.00842d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:51 PM 5/15/04 -0700, Shaun wrote: >I have one Z-FIO chip. It is documented in a Zilog >book. What's a FIO chip? I don't have a datasheet for it. If you'll scan it and send it to me I'll add it to the webpage. Joe > >--- "Joe R." wrote: >> David Bryan has scanned the data sheets for the >> following Z8000 parts; >> CPU (1.1 MB), MMU (0.7 MB), SCC (0.9 MB), CIO (1.0 >> MB), CGC (0.3 MB). I've >> posted them on my website at >> . >> >> Joe >> >> > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. >http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 15 17:55:34 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> <7320f0ae4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <000301c43b4d$c4f61a40$8a444ed5@geoff> In my current CPC catalogue Multicore offer "high" and "low" melting point solder. The low melts at 179*C and the high at 301*C. My old Weller iron had the following bit temperatures :- no.6 315*C no.7 370*C no.8 430*C I find myself using around 320*C for standard 60/40 - with no real justification except I've found it to work - and it matches the temp of bit 6. I have some old HMP solder which I use on bits that get hot ( repairs on poorly designed tv's) which requires a bit temp. of 356*C - I used to use bit no. 7 for that , before I got MY temp. controlled iron - wouldn't be without it now! I think that modern solders have lower melting points than the stuff I have a lot of , your best bet would be to give Multicore a ring and ask them directly. You must have an old solder as well , -all the labels on mine faded long ago. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: RE: Computer Estate( and collecting) > In message <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> > "Torquil MacCorkle, III" wrote: > > > If a hobby is 'cheap', you are not into it enough. :) > Sounds about right. There are some things that are worth having, though - > case in point being the soldering station (an Antex 660-TC) I bought the > other day. Having used it all of three times, I've relegated the > non-temperature-controlled monstrosity I used before (a 25W that ran at > around 450C) to the back of the cupboard. > While I'm on the subject of soldering stations, is there any generally-agreed > "best" temperature for 60/40 Multicore solder? I've got the station set to > 350C at the moment (increased 375 if I'm using desolder wick). I'll be damned > if I can find the datasheet for the solder I'm using on Multicore's website > though :-/ > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... Captain, Permission to hook up blender attachments to Mr Spock From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 15 17:23:02 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... References: Message-ID: <000201c43b4d$c40ca4a0$8a444ed5@geoff> > And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? > > -- They're for when you've got Chicken Pox and you're not supposed to scratch. :>) Geoff. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 16 09:42:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > In a hundred years the world will be speaking and writing Hindu or > whatever dialect is popular in China and India so anything you save wont > be appreciated by anybody but the mandarin Indiana Jones type > archeologist anyway. Heh heh (nervous laughter :) That's an interesting prognostication. Certainly a possibility. We'll see what happens guess... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Sun May 16 11:50:16 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Helping a Neighbor - Need Syquest SyJet (IDE) Driver SQATDRVR.SYS (DOS) References: Message-ID: <002101c43b66$6e179a00$210fa8c0@Sol> > Patrick, a google search results in a number of sites that suggest > that they have a driver. Have you checked them? Don, I checked a number of them before posting here. Among those I checked, there were predominantly (1) listings that claimed to have the DOS driver but in fact were Win95 drivers with nothing for DOS but a README suggestion to use BIOS settings, which doesn't work since she wants to use the drive as removeable, and (2) registration required, which I eschewed for the likelihood of spam. One even required that I install a special downloader (purchase of the Brooklyn Bridge was optional, however). So, I was hoping that someone on list would have it. Patrick :-) From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 16 12:31:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Driver downloads Message-ID: Patrick, Try DriverGuide: http://www.driverguide.com They fool you into registering (I always use fake info to avoid spam) but they have one generic login/password for all users: Login: drivers Password: all Keep this handy. I usually find what I need there. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jdbryan at acm.org Fri May 14 09:46:48 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622468@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <200405141446.i4EEknrQ020336@mail.bcpl.net> On 13 May 2004 at 10:35, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > Any chance that the data book has a datasheet for the Z8016. Datasheet posted to: http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8016.pdf (about 1.1 MB). -- Dave From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri May 14 20:53:32 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Helping a Neighbor - Need Syquest SyJet (IDE) Driver SQATDRVR.SYS (DOS) In-Reply-To: <003701c43a1d$69304450$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> References: <003701c43a1d$69304450$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040514215218.031d1908@24.161.37.215> I think I found drivers for it: http://www.driverzone.com/drivers/syquest/ Has a boat load. Just need to know specific model I guess from the looks of it. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:39 PM 5/14/2004, you wrote: >I'm helping a neighbor who's helping a neighbor. He's trying to get a >Syquest SyJet IDE drive running under DOS (the neighbor->neighbor has a >bunch of DOS games she loves to play). > >Does anyone have a Syquest SyJet IDE driver for MS-DOS? After a bit of >Googling, it would seem the file might be called SQATDRVR.SYS. It's >possible to set the BIOS parameters so the drive can be seen/read that way, >but cartridges can't be removed when it's done this way. Apparently the >driver facilitates that. If there's an accompanying utility that mounts >and/or dismounts the volume, I suppose it would be necessasry to have that >too. > >TIA! --Patrick ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From edward at groenenberg.net Sat May 15 02:08:29 2004 From: edward at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: SPARC-5 memory? References: <200405150108.i4F18whc098642@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40A5C1ED.CC1CADA2@groenenberg.net> Part numbers for SS5 memory 501-2470 (8Mb modules) and 501-2471 for the 32Mb modules. Dave Dunfield wrote: > > Also got a SPARC-5 - indeterminate condition - no drives - no memory. > > Can anyone tell me what I need for memory in a SPARC-5? > > I know there are different versions of the S-5 - here is the info from the > label on the bottom: > > Model number: 544, Service code; 55, PN: 600-3853-01 SN: 546F0085 > The board has 8 168-pin DIMM sockets at the front lefthand side of the > board (looking from top/front), and running parallel to the front of > the machine. > > Physically, PC 168-pin DIMMS can "almost fit", but the notches are just > slightly in the wrong place - I have no idea if they are electrically > compatible or not (I'd guess not - I tried this just for physical > comparison only). > > Regards, > Dave > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- edward@groenenberg.net | Collector of PDP-11's. http://www.groenenberg.net | Politici zijn vieze oplichters. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is crap. '97 TL1000S From edward at groenenberg.net Sat May 15 02:14:26 2004 From: edward at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Need help with Sparc-1 (SUN) References: <200405150108.i4F18whc098644@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40A5C352.6DEEE3B7@groenenberg.net> Hmmm, an ss1 is one I haven't seen for a long time. Have you tried to boot it using the command 'boot cdrom -s'? This will get you in single user mode. Mount the disk (mount /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 /mnt) and modify the passwd file. Standard procedure for cases were the root password was lost. Ed Dave Dunfield wrote: > > Hi Gang, > > Recently acquired an old Sun SPARCstation-1. > It boots! - but I don't know the root password - Guy who gave it do me > did so because he was moving, and I can't locate him now. > > Got Solaris 2.6 CD/docs with it, so I figured I'd just reinstall a > fresh system. > > Can't get it to boot from CD. > When I power on the system, hit STOP-A to get to the boot prompt, > then do: > boot sd(0,6,2) > > It thinks a while, then I see one access to the CD, and I get the message: > (From memory so not exact quote but pretty close): > > "The magic character in the label is incorrect. The file loaded, but it > does not appear to be executable". > > Tried everything I can think of, but this is the only response I am able > to get which involves any CD activity at all. > > Same procedure works perfectly on a Sparc-2 - boots right up off the CD. > > I'm assuming that this CD works on the Sparc-1, because A) it came from the > same source at the same time (not a guarantee), and B) It's GOT Solaris 2.6 > already booting on it (I just can't login) - I'm guessing that it was > installed from this CD. > > Also tried a Solaris 2.7 CD that I have onhand - exactly the same result. > > Anyone have any insight to offer? > > Regards, > Dave Dunfield > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- edward@groenenberg.net | Collector of PDP-11's. http://www.groenenberg.net | Politici zijn vieze oplichters. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is crap. '97 TL1000S From tandem at comcast.net Sat May 15 15:59:13 2004 From: tandem at comcast.net (tandem) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: PDP8s for sale Message-ID: <000d01c43abf$7a81ada0$0201a8c0@indpnd01.mo.comcast.net> Here's the list of stuff that I've got for sale. I'm located in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). If someone showed up with a truck & some cash, they could take it all for one price. I don't really know what this stuff is worth now, however I do remember how hard I had to scrounge to get stuff like this back in the 80s. So make me an offer. You pay all shipping costs. I'd rather not have to deal with international shipping, at least on any of the big stuff. I'd prefer to sell the 8/e complete, & the 8/a complete with the RXs. PDP8/e SN: 1654 date 7/26/71 Rack Mount M8330 \ M8310 > KK8-E M8300 / M849 EMI Shield G104 \ H619A > 4K Core Memory G227 / G104 \ H619A > 4K Core Memory G227 / M8320 Bus Loads The 2nd backplane & the bus jumpers are missing. All of the 8/e stuff above worked fine the last time I used it, however I haven't tested it lately. I do have 2 M837 KM8-E Extended Memory options, however they are bad & I never got around to fixing them (see below). The front panel is in very good condition, & the box is in good shape & complete, however the little plastic clips that hold the lid shut gave up long ago (typical), and the foam pieces inside the lid are somewhat rotted (also typical). _____________________________________________________ PDP8/a SN 02709 (in a BA500 box) Rack Mount M8315 KK8A CPU Board M8317 KM8-AA Option2: Mem Extention, time share, boot, power fail M8316 DKC8-AA Option1: front panel, serial I/O , parallel I/O, clock M8417-AB MS8-C MOS memory (32K) H219A \ MM8-AA 8K core memory (for the "core music") G649 / M8357 RX01 controller RX01-BA Dual RX01 drives The above PDP8/a & the RX01 drives worked fine the last time I used it. My VT52 died a few years ago, so it's been 10+ years since I've even powered it on. It has the simple front panel with the 3 switches. Hardware boots to the RX01. I also have the KC88 Indicator Display option (missing the bezel), however it doesn't work & needs repair. I have lots of RX01 disks, with OS/8, games, & a good selction of "core music". Maybe some diagnostics as well. Also a complete fortran set on 6 rx01s. (also have a nice selection of VAX 11/780 console floppies for use as blanks or scratch disks) Currently, I have both the PDP/8s & the RX01 mounted in a standard DEC 50" cabinet (24u). ----------------------------------- Documentation available: (2) PDP8/a Miniprocessor Users Manual (big book) PDP8/e Processor Maintenance Manual, Volume 1 (1976) PDP8/e Processor Maintenance Manual, Volume 1 (1972) (2) PDP8/e Internal Bus Options, Maint. Manual, Volume 2 PDP8/e External Bus Options, Maint. Manual, Volume 3 RK05 Disk Drive Maint. Manual LAB8/e Maint. Manual PC04/5 Maint. Manual DF32-D,E Maint. Manual DF32 Maint. Manual (for -8 & 8/I) (2) PC04/5 Paper Tape Reader/Punch Maint. Manual (2) OS/8 Handbook OS/8 Pocket Reference Card (3) PDP8/e Pocket Reference Card PDP8/e Instruction List Card (2)PDP8/e Small Computer Handbook PDP8/a Engineering Drawings (8A500) KC88 Indicator Display Engineering Drawings PDP8/e Engineering Drawings KM8E Memory Extention & Timeshare Engineering Drawings PC8/C Engineering Drawings KA8-E Positive I/O Bus Engineering Drawings (2) KP8-E Power Fail/Auto Restart Engineering Drawings KD8-E Data Break Engineering Drawings PC04/5 Paper Tape Reader/Punch Engineering Drawings LE8-O Line Printer Engineering Drawings ASR/KSR Teletype Wiring Diagram Package 3 trays of paper tape diagnostics, plus paper docs 13 boxes of 'new' paper tape - DEC brand -------------------------------------------- The following items are either "probably bad" or "definately bad" as they were removed from systems as bad during service calls over many years, & were later thrown away by the logistics guys. Most still have the red tags on them. (I worked for DEC Field Service '76 to '89). Field service repair was never an exact science, sometimes guesses were made, & some FEs liked the "shotgun approach" to repair, so some of these parts may be good. I don't have any way to test them, so they all have to be sold "as is." BA500 box, including backplane & power supply (PDP8/a) RX01 power supply - water damage (2) RX01 drives - water damage CMOS-8 WT78 motherboard, lightning damage. M7726 RX01 logic board M7727 RX01 r/w board - nasty brown spot M860 part of Real Time clock M866 DP8EA (5) M8653 KL8M (2) M837 KM8-E memory extention (2) M833 Old style 8/e timing board M832 old style 8/e Bus Loads M8330 newer 8/e timing bd (2) M849 PC8E M865 20ma console board M835 KA8-E Positive I/O bus M868 TD8-E M848 KP8-E Powerfail M841 LE8-A M8326 KD8E Data Break M884 KG8-E parity generator dectector H919 8/e backplane H9194 8/a backplane H219B/G650 16K core memory set H212 8K core board M8317 KM8-AA Option2: Mem Extention, time share, boot, power fail VT52 (complete, but dead) ----- Original Message ----- From: tandem To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Re: PDP8s for sale I'm in the process of putting together a list of what I've got for sale. I'm in the Kansas City, Missouri area (USA). I've got a PDP8/e, and a PDP8/a with RX01s. Currently, all are rack mounted in a standard DEC 50" (24u) cabinet. I'll get back with the list soon. tm ----- Original Message ----- From: tandem To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:13 PM Subject: PDP8s for sale I have 2 complete, working PDP8s for sale to a good home. Is there a good place to list them? tm From jdbryan at acm.org Sat May 15 18:16:07 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040512182518.008c1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405121740.i4CHe3rQ024766@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200405152316.i4FNG8rQ021572@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 May 2004 at 18:25, Joe R. wrote: > I'd just like to get a quick overview to begin with but if you don't > mind scanning the whole thing I can post if on my website or I'm sure > that Al would post it on his. Full datasheets posted to: http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8001.pdf (CPU, 1.1 MB) http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8010.pdf (MMU, 0.7 MB) http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8030.pdf (SCC, 0.9 MB) http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8036.pdf (CIO, 1.0 MB) http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8581.pdf (CGC, 0.3 MB) Feel free to repost them on your site; due to space quotas, I'll likely remove them in a week or two. -- Dave From synthesis at telia.com Sat May 15 18:52:16 2004 From: synthesis at telia.com (synthesis@telia.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: midiboard Message-ID: Hello- Do you still own a MIDIBoard? Still having trouble with it? Regards Michael Bransome From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun May 16 13:08:01 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: midiboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405161403437.SM02384@bobdev> Michael, You addresses your message to a general mailing list. But I assume you're asking me, since I believe I'm the one who brought up MIDIBOARD and chip seating problems a while back. Yes, I still have it, and it's been working fine for quite a while now (maybe 6 months, or closer to a year, I forget when I last had problems) without having to reseat any chips. (KNOCK ON WOOD). I haven't done anything about replacing the chip sockets with better quality ones. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of synthesis@telia.com Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 7:52 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: midiboard Hello- Do you still own a MIDIBoard? Still having trouble with it? Regards Michael Bransome From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 16 13:16:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <000201c43b4d$c40ca4a0$8a444ed5@geoff> References: <000201c43b4d$c40ca4a0$8a444ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <20040516111506.E10694@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 15 May 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > And what on Earth would one do with rubber nails? > > > > -- They're for when you've got Chicken Pox and you're not supposed to > scratch. :>) "rubber nails" refers to the use, not the composition! Are "drywall nails" made of drywall?? Are "wood screws" made of wood?? "rubber nails" are used for nailing rubber weatherstripping. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun May 16 14:20:43 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC handbook series - official list? Message-ID: Hi all! While attempting to get some organization back into one of my study rooms (the one where all my DEC docs and media are), I again ran into the problem of organizing my collection of the wellknown "Handbook" series of DEC publications. I have many, but after sorting them out, and taking out the dupes (which *are* available for trade, by the way) I noticed some volumes were clearly missing in series where they had multiple-volume issues. So, is there (from DEC, or collected by us) some sort of "master list" of which handbooks were published by DEC? This would help me a lot in finding the ones I am missing, or think I am missing... Thankee, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 16 15:35:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> References: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> Message-ID: <20040516133221.G10694@newshell.lmi.net> Howzbout: dynamic steganography? In the UK, they are now getting versions of the "gang member initiation/ headlight flashing" urban legend hoax. If you were to embed your data in urban legends, the logevity would be enormous! There are even people who claim that there are hidden messages in the bible. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun May 16 12:03:26 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Newton & bernoulli parallel to scsi adapter. In-Reply-To: <20040516025140.42834.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040515222706.00879790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040516205937.HTJL11783.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> I have two items to sell for 10 a piece, you pay for shipping: Newton the original type (H1000), has slipcover pouch (fair) has a small hole. Newton's battery cartridge has small bits broken off but functional for testing. Newton itself is working but beeper is silent (couldn't find where speaker wiring goes to system board), condition of casing is fair (scuffed and few scratches, light scratches on the LCD but no crack or missing pixels. Doesn't have pens and flip cover and no power supply. Parallel to SCSI bernoulli adapter (model PPA-I) with original HP parallel cable has hunk of grounding strap at centronics end. Excellent condition and known working. This adapter works off 5V source from external bernoulli 90 box's fused jack. Shipping via USPS ground or air from ontario, canada. Cheers, Wizard From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 16 16:12:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <20040516133221.G10694@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > There are even people who claim that there are > hidden messages in the bible. There are. I put them there! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From sastevens at earthlink.net Sun May 16 16:29:07 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Need help with Sparc-1 (SUN) In-Reply-To: <200405150108.i4F18whc098644@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405150108.i4F18whc098644@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040516162907.2c648866.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 14 May 2004 20:08:58 -0500 (CDT) Dave Dunfield wrote: > Hi Gang, > > Recently acquired an old Sun SPARCstation-1. > It boots! - but I don't know the root password - Guy who gave it do me > did so because he was moving, and I can't locate him now. > > Got Solaris 2.6 CD/docs with it, so I figured I'd just reinstall a > fresh system. > > Can't get it to boot from CD. > When I power on the system, hit STOP-A to get to the boot prompt, > then do: > boot sd(0,6,2) > > It thinks a while, then I see one access to the CD, and I get the > message:(From memory so not exact quote but pretty close): > > "The magic character in the label is incorrect. The file loaded, but > it > does not appear to be executable". > > Tried everything I can think of, but this is the only response I am > able to get which involves any CD activity at all. > > Same procedure works perfectly on a Sparc-2 - boots right up off the > CD. > > I'm assuming that this CD works on the Sparc-1, because A) it came > from the same source at the same time (not a guarantee), and B) It's > GOT Solaris 2.6 already booting on it (I just can't login) - I'm > guessing that it was installed from this CD. > > Also tried a Solaris 2.7 CD that I have onhand - exactly the same > result. > > Anyone have any insight to offer? > There's a pretty good bunch of info on booting old Sparc boxes in the text of the Installation instructions for NetBSD/Sparc. It sorts things out, talking a lot about various versions of OpenBoot ROMs, etc. I used it to figure out booting my first Sparc IPC machine back in the day. It can be obtained right in the download tree of any Sparc port of NetBSD, from ftp.netbsd.org. Here's a direct url to one of the newest versions of the file: ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-1.6.2/sparc/INSTALL.txt It's useful info wether you're installing NetBSD or not. Have you done all the standard things from the OBP like the probe-scsi command to know for sure the drive is there and at the SCSI ID you expect it at? From donm at cts.com Sun May 16 16:30:05 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Helping a Neighbor - Need Syquest SyJet (IDE) Driver SQATDRVR.SYS (DOS) In-Reply-To: <002101c43b66$6e179a00$210fa8c0@Sol> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Patrick wrote: > > Patrick, a google search results in a number of sites that suggest > > that they have a driver. Have you checked them? > > Don, I checked a number of them before posting here. Among those I checked, > there were predominantly (1) listings that claimed to have the DOS driver > but in fact were Win95 drivers with nothing for DOS but a README suggestion > to use BIOS settings, which doesn't work since she wants to use the drive as > removeable, and (2) registration required, which I eschewed for the > likelihood of spam. One even required that I install a special downloader > (purchase of the Brooklyn Bridge was optional, however). > > So, I was hoping that someone on list would have it. > > Patrick :-) Wow! Talk about 'bait and switch' advertising! - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 16 15:20:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: <40A6DA4D.4040606@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at May 15, 4 10:04:45 pm Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > My Myford Super 7 Lathe (about 7 years old) has a seemingly random mix of > > Whitworth (BSW), BA, and metric screws. Mind you, you do get a toolkit > > (spanners, allen keys, oil gun, C-spanner for the headstock bearings, > > etc) with it, so it's not so bad.... > > Sometimes you just have to wonder "What were they *thinking*?" There is, I believe, a reason for it. Originally (the design is something like 50 years old), it was all Whitworth for the large size bolts and BA for the small stuff. That was, of course, typical for British engineering at that them. More recently they found that Whitworth allen-head screws were _much_ more expensive than the equivalent metric ones. So they went over to metric for things like the bolts holding the headstock to the bed, but kept Whitworth for the bolts used in the T-slots of the cross-slide, for the spindle thread, etc. THat was so all accessories fitted all machines. After all, if you buy a lathe, you expect to be able to get bits to fit it in 10 or 20 years time (the computer industry could learn a lot from this....) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 16 15:22:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at May 16, 4 09:57:05 am Message-ID: > > On Sun, 16 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Hmmm.. Certainly the heads can be replaced at home, but that assumes you > > have the right replacements. I think making heads is beyond a home > > workshop, but I would love to be proved wrong (and probably will be > > sometime -- _never_ underestimate what a hacker can do if he tries...) > Tony, wouldn't one need a (somewhat :) clean room for such > stuff, and (for heads) optical gear and all that?? On the demountable drives -- ones where the user is expected to interchange the pack -- the heads can be replaced in a normal workshop. The manuals warn you to keep things as clean as possible (and certainly not to smoke :-)), but you don't need a clean room. To _make_ heads is another matter... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 16 15:28:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <20040516111106.09fa22f4.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at May 16, 4 11:11:06 am Message-ID: > software. But maybe the tools they use are very different from yours. > AFAIK they use some shematic capturing to design the FPGA, no VHDL or > the like. No, I was using schematic capture tools too, and a right pain they were. I have many moans... Theu would (obviously) delete unused sectiuon of the schematic. This made a lot of sense in general (say you had a macro that emulated a 7483 full-adder but you only used 3 stages of it, the 4th stage would be removed by the compiler. Great, you didn't want unused logic filling up the chip). The problem came if you accidentally tied an enable line to the wrong state [1], it would happily remove 90% of your logic _and not warn you about it_. Then, nect day, when the compile had finished, you'd find the result was useless. Yes, I should have been more careful, but equally, computers are there to keep an eye on things. [1] This was remarkably easy to do. There were macros for things like 8 input muxes that looked just like the TTL equivalent (74151), but had active-high rather than active-low enables. Yes, you should read the manuals, but in a complex design, it was easy to forget More seriously is that it couldn't be trusted not to mangle the circuit. It is not obvious to those who've never used FPGAs that the 'wires' are nothing of the sort, they go through routing switches on the chip, each of which adds a few ns delay. Now the problem comes when 2 signals go through different numbers of switchs, you can end up with a clock edge occuring before the data or something like that. I could find no way to tell that darn software that signal A had to take at least as fast a path as signal B or whatever. Hmmm.... -tony From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun May 16 16:59:36 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: A little help from my friends... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A7E448.5060404@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > There is, I believe, a reason for it. Originally (the design is something > like 50 years old), it was all Whitworth for the large size bolts and BA > for the small stuff. That was, of course, typical for British engineering > at that them. > > More recently they found that Whitworth allen-head screws were _much_ > more expensive than the equivalent metric ones. So they went over to > metric for things like the bolts holding the headstock to the bed, but > kept Whitworth for the bolts used in the T-slots of the cross-slide, for > the spindle thread, etc. THat was so all accessories fitted all machines. > After all, if you buy a lathe, you expect to be able to get bits to fit > it in 10 or 20 years time (the computer industry could learn a lot from > this....) So *that's* what they were thinkin'! :) Thanks, Tony! However, since Triumph was firmly in the "nothing from Model A Year X fits any other year or model" group, I don't think the reasoning carries across. "Too cheap to retool all at once" comes to mind. Doc From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sun May 16 19:52:02 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Z8000 data sheets posted In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040516084639.00842d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040517005202.12918.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> It is a FIFO chip (Z0803804PSC Z-FIO) that can be used to connect two ZBuses or to connect a ZBus and another Bus. The book is a library book. I can scan the document after I borrow the book. vax, 3900 --- "Joe R." wrote: > At 07:51 PM 5/15/04 -0700, Shaun wrote: > >I have one Z-FIO chip. It is documented in a Zilog > >book. > > What's a FIO chip? I don't have a datasheet for > it. If you'll scan it > and send it to me I'll add it to the webpage. > > Joe > > > > > > >--- "Joe R." wrote: > >> David Bryan has scanned the data sheets for the > >> following Z8000 parts; > >> CPU (1.1 MB), MMU (0.7 MB), SCC (0.9 MB), CIO > (1.0 > >> MB), CGC (0.3 MB). I've > >> posted them on my website at > >> . > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > >http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From cannings at earthlink.net Sun May 16 16:51:06 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: COSMAC BASIC hex dump References: <1084560606.1943.18.camel@dhcp-250048.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: <000501c43b8f$e5ee5360$6401a8c0@hal9000> Tom, I would be happy to pay postage plus some beer money for the manual. I have a "working" COSMAC in my hobby lab. It would be nice to have the manual. I am in So California. If this sounds good I can send you a mailing address "offline" and we can swap info. Thanks a bunch ! Best regards, Steven P.S. You are correct in that it builds anything but character ! I just moved my lab (ugh) and all it's contents (kilopounds), and inevitably paused to look at junk along the way, and found my RCA COSMAC DEVELOPMENT KIT manual. It's got a hex listing (remember those) for a tiny BASIC for the 1802. If it's not already commonly available I'll (postal) mail a copy so's you can have all the true vintage experience of typing in hex dumps then finding the errors. I quite distinctly recall the abominable process of typing in ANIMALS or somesuch nonsense from the SWTP docs way back when. Ugh. Wouldn't wish it on anyone, and no, it did not build character. From jdbryan at acm.org Sun May 16 17:22:56 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040514141308.0087f610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405131724.i4DHOjrQ003030@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200405162222.i4GMMvrQ026788@mail.bcpl.net> On 14 May 2004 at 14:13, Joe R. wrote: > This one is dated 9509. OK, that substantially postdates the databook. So I'd discount any of the part number suffix designations listed therein. Odd that for something that "recent," the Zilog Web site doesn't maintain datasheets. Motorola has PDFs for the 6800 (albeit in their "Archived -- Not for new designs" section :-). -- Dave From scfarms at socal.rr.com Sun May 16 21:07:40 2004 From: scfarms at socal.rr.com (Donald W. Ricketts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Morrow MD2 Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040516190624.01facd88@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I just saw a year old post where you were looking for a Morrow boot disk. I still have m y old MD2 and all the manuals and applications. (it doesn't run anymore--as I recall the drives gave out). If I can help you (and this reaches you) let me know. Don D O N A L D W . R I C K E T T S Attorney at Law 28855 Kenroy Ave. Santa Clarita, CA 91387-1721 Phone (661) 250-3091 Fax: (661) 250-1767 E-Mail: scfarms@socal.rr.com ---------- Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. ---------- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 17 05:06:56 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) Message-ID: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> The following turned up yesterday from a couple of skips: Two Acorn 420/1 machines, one with an ST506 drive and the other with an IDE drive and interface. One has an Ethernet board fitted. Both seem to have some sort of CPU upgrade fitted to them. An Acorn A5000, with a board called a "Colourcard" in it - I assume it's some sort of video board with a better spec than the standard video output? I got keyboards and mice for all three machines, which was nice. Also found two seperate Ethernet cards, a whole slew of RiscOS ROMs in a box, Artworks software and a pile of Artworks dongles. Oh, and a collection of the rear panel blanking plates (I'm actually missing those from some of my Acorns, so they'll come in handy :-) I also came away with Sun Sparc 4 (gutted though), a Sun Sparc 10 (memory and CPU board fitted, no hard disk), and a Sun Ultra 1 (also gutted). Couple of Mac LC III's were in the haul too, a couple of Apple Ethernet boards, an Apple SCSI CDROM drive, plus misc. bits - a 760MB full-height SCSI drive, several small-capacity IDE drives, couple of sticks of Sun memory, couple of RS232 gender changers etc. I passed on the huge Apple Quadra tower that was in the skip, and the numerous PCs that were in there... :) Not a bad haul for free though. cheers Jules From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 17 05:02:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405171010.GAA11965@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > On the demountable drives -- ones where the user is expected to > interchange the pack -- the heads can be replaced in a normal > workshop. The manuals warn you to keep things as clean as possible > (and certainly not to smoke :-)), but you don't need a clean room. That reminds me of once, some 15-20 years ago, when I was working as a sysadmin. I happened to wander into the machine room while the field circus[%] tech was doing a PM on our (removable-pack) disk drives. He had the drive open and the guts all hanging out - and smoking. I fear I went rather ballistic; we didn't let people smoke in that machine room even under normal operating circumstances. > To _make_ heads is another matter... To be sure. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), but in this case I'm inclined to hold it warranted: the tech either had no idea what he was doing or just didn't care, and either one is inappropriate behaviour for a field service tech. (Not to mention disrespecting the no-smoking signs all over the walls at his customer's site to begin with.) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 17 05:17:11 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions Message-ID: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> See my other post about the Ultra 1 I found. (I think it's a couple of years too new to be on-topic - sorry!) I put the pair of memory sticks in there which I got in the same day and tried powering the machine up using a terminal as the console. Amazingly, it's alive! At the moment it's set to boot from the network - any idea how I can interrupt that and get into the boot monitor in order to switch that off? I think there's some key combination to do it from a keyboard, but of course I don't have one handy at the moment - just the console. There's a clear perspex bracket above the CPU for holding a fan, but no fan. As this machine had been stripped before I got it, I don't know if it should have one and someone had taken it out. The CPU has a large finned heatsink on it - on the web I saw a vague report that Sun may have stopped putting fans in the machines on later ones and just used a larger heatsink. Any ideas? Finally, any clue as to whether the Apple SCSI CDROM I got will work in the Ultra? It's a 1993 vintage drive, an "AppleCD 300 Plus". If not, I do have a SCSI drive that'll do both 512 and 2048 block sizes, but it's in a running machine at the moment... No idea why this machine was thrown out. It seems to work so far. Maybe it has an intermittant fault when it's been running for a while, or maybe the network interface is dead (according to console messages it notices when a cable's present or not though). cheers Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon May 17 06:05:49 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions Message-ID: <200405171105.i4HB5nhc017077@huey.classiccmp.org> >At the moment it's set to boot from the network - any idea how I can >interrupt that and get into the boot monitor in order to switch that >off? I think there's some key combination to do it from a keyboard, but >of course I don't have one handy at the moment - just the console. I don't know it it changed by the time of the Ultra, however I just "figured this out" for a Sparc-1 ... You hold down STOP+A (Press STOP and 'A' at the same time) while it powers up. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From torquil at chemist.com Mon May 17 06:32:13 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions References: <200405171105.i4HB5nhc017077@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <029b01c43c02$9b1f08c0$0500a8c0@floyd> > I don't know it it changed by the time of the Ultra, however I just "figured > this out" for a Sparc-1 ... You hold down STOP+A (Press STOP and 'A' at the > same time) while it powers up. Yep, that'll do the trick on the U1 too. Good luck! --- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon May 17 06:48:46 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040517114846.GA31205@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 10:17:11AM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > At the moment it's set to boot from the network - any idea how I can > interrupt that and get into the boot monitor in order to switch that > off? I think there's some key combination to do it from a keyboard, but > of course I don't have one handy at the moment - just the console. Stop-A on the keyboard or a Break on the serial console. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 17 07:49:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: Z8000 parts question In-Reply-To: <200405141446.i4EEknrQ020336@mail.bcpl.net> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622468@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040517084911.008b9ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've also added it to my collection of Zilog datasheets at . Thanks again Dave! Joe At 10:46 AM 5/14/04 -0400, you wrote: >On 13 May 2004 at 10:35, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > >> Any chance that the data book has a datasheet for the Z8016. > >Datasheet posted to: > > http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/Z8016.pdf > >(about 1.1 MB). > > -- Dave > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 17 08:17:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: DEC handbook series - official list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040517091727.008cbb40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred, There's no list that I'm aware of but it would be nice if someone made up a list and posted it (Hint, Hint!) I have a few and I'll be happy to make of the ones that I have. Joe At 09:20 PM 5/16/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all! > >While attempting to get some organization back into one of my >study rooms (the one where all my DEC docs and media are), I >again ran into the problem of organizing my collection of the >wellknown "Handbook" series of DEC publications. > >I have many, but after sorting them out, and taking out the >dupes (which *are* available for trade, by the way) I noticed >some volumes were clearly missing in series where they had >multiple-volume issues. > >So, is there (from DEC, or collected by us) some sort of >"master list" of which handbooks were published by DEC? > >This would help me a lot in finding the ones I am missing, >or think I am missing... > >Thankee, > >Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 08:49:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: soldering iron & advice for magnifier References: <200405131813.i4DID9rQ019610@mail.bcpl.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514101344.036e7e90@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514134908.03786d68@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040514153741.0366a300@mail.ubanproductions.com> <00f101c43a1c$4f671ef0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <16552.49887.4963.217151@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> Tom wrote... >> I bought a used Metcal MX1 on eBay and it is easily the best iron >> I've ever used! Throw out all of the others. I also have a Bausch >> & Lomb Stereo Zoom 4 microscope which makes surface mount much >> easier, at least for my aging eyes. Jay> I'm not familiar with Metcal units. How would the MX1 compare Jay> with the Weller WES51 I recently bought? I've used a Weller WTCPR (Curie point temperature control) iron for many years. The "PTS" tip is sharp and slender, perfect for fine SMD work. It's harder to find than most other tips. Extra thin solder and a lamp + magnifier completes the toolkit. Jay> Also, I have a lamp magnifier... one of those lighted magnifiers Jay> on a elbow arm you clamp to your desk. Invaluable to me for Jay> small work. Mine is missing one of the two springs, so I'm out Jay> looking for a new one. I found a truely nice one for $55 that Jay> has two separate flourescent bulbs on each side (I strongly Jay> prefer flourescent lights for that rather than the cheap Jay> incandescent units). I'm thinking these would have to be better Jay> than a stereo microscope (which I've never used)??? Wouldn't it Jay> be hard to position boards and such under that? I'd say this is a matter of personal preference. I picked my tools based on what was available along with the advice of a professional -- a lady who routinely assembles prototype boards full of 240 lead PQFPs in no time flat. She uses one of those magnifiers with a circular fluorescent tube wrapped around it. I didn't have one of those so I made do with a Sunnex light plus magnifier combo, not quite as good but sufficient. The stereo microscope at the office did come in handy for post-assembly inspection. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 09:29:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:37 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search References: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> <200405160509.BAA20754@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16552.52292.960029.87677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: >> In a hundred years the world will be speaking and writing Hindu or >> whatever dialect is popular in China and India der> There's actually an excellent chance, I'd say, that that dialect der> will be far more similar to today's English than to Maharati or der> Cantonese or any of the other native Indian or Chinese der> languages. English is already a lingua franca in parts of the der> world where you wouldn't expect it ... Correct -- English is, by far, the most widely understood language in the world. (In other words, counting both first and second language skills.) If you're looking at first (native) language only, English probably is still first for the simple reason that "Chinese" is not a single language but an inaccurate term that collects together a fair number of quite different languages. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 09:35:00 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> <7320f0ae4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <000301c43b4d$c4f61a40$8a444ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <16552.52628.178151.580881@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Geoffrey" == Geoffrey Thomas writes: Geoffrey> In my current CPC catalogue Multicore offer "high" and Geoffrey> "low" melting point solder. The low melts at 179*C and the Geoffrey> high at 301*C. My old Weller iron had the following bit Geoffrey> temperatures :- Geoffrey> no.6 315*C no.7 370*C no.8 430*C Mine are all number 7 (700 degrees F). That seems to be the default. Geoffrey> I find myself using around 320*C for standard 60/40 - with Geoffrey> no real justification except I've found it to work - and it Geoffrey> matches the temp of bit 6. I have some old HMP solder Geoffrey> which I use on bits that get hot ( repairs on poorly Geoffrey> designed tv's) which requires a bit temp. of 356*C - I used Geoffrey> to use bit no. 7 for that , before I got MY Geoffrey> temp. controlled iron - wouldn't be without it now! I Geoffrey> think that modern solders have lower melting points than Geoffrey> the stuff I have a lot of , your best bet would be to give Geoffrey> Multicore a ring and ask them directly. You must have an Geoffrey> old solder as well , -all the labels on mine faded long Geoffrey> ago. 63/37 is the optimal tin/lead alloy; its melting point is a little lower than 60/40 alloy. With the current anti-lead movement, it's anybody's guess what will happen to solder melting points. I get the impression that they are going up, not down. paul From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 17 10:05:25 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 Message-ID: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> I acquired a PDP 11/23 this weekend. It runs RT-11, which boots fine from either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E on an 11/23? I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. Ashley From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 17 10:03:17 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > I acquired a PDP 11/23 this weekend. It runs RT-11, which boots fine from either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E on an 11/23? I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. I know it works on the (emulated) 11/23-PLUS because one of my customers runs it that way, but that is RSTS/E V8.07. Dunno much about RSTS, but I can probably try it on an emulator for you :) --f From dundas at caltech.edu Mon May 17 10:25:12 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: At 11:05 AM -0400 5/17/04, Ashley Carder wrote: >either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E >on an 11/23? No, haven't tried. >I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this >machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list >the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. The SPD for V7 says it will run on any PDP-11 processor with memory management and EIS. It also needs at least 128KB of memory and a clock. IIRC, the /23+ has 22-bit memory management. Does the /23 have 18-bit memory management? If so, and you meet the other requirements, it should work. Good luck, John From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 17 10:25:11 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, John A. Dundas III wrote: > The SPD for V7 says it will run on any PDP-11 processor with memory > management and EIS. It also needs at least 128KB of memory and a > clock. IIRC, the /23+ has 22-bit memory management. Does the /23 > have 18-bit memory management? If so, and you meet the other > requirements, it should work. The 11/23 is 18-bit addressing, the 11/23+ is 22-bit, so, yes, the /23 will work just fine, should have a slightly faster system than on the /34 he was used to running it on ;) (just a bit faster, but less power use!) --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 10:32:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: >Finally, any clue as to whether the Apple SCSI CDROM I got will work in >the Ultra? It's a 1993 vintage drive, an "AppleCD 300 Plus". If not, I >do have a SCSI drive that'll do both 512 and 2048 block sizes, but it's >in a running machine at the moment... Does the "AppleCD 300 Plus" support 512-byte blocks? I've got a 3rd party 4x external drive I bought for my PowerBook 520c back in '95 that I typically use on systems that require 512-byte blocks. Somehow I got lucky! The computer is long dead, but the CD-ROM drive gets used several times a year :^) >No idea why this machine was thrown out. It seems to work so far. Maybe It was probably tossed because it's old and slow. Having said that, awesome find, in my opinion, that's one of the best systems for running OpenBSD (I've often wished I had one). One of these days I'll get one, I've managed to get everything between the Sparc 2 and Ultra 60, except it and an Ultra 30 for free :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 10:49:00 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16552.57068.470123.307495@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John A Dundas, writes: >> I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this >> machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list >> the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. John> The SPD for V7 says it will run on any PDP-11 processor with John> memory management and EIS. It also needs at least 128KB of John> memory and a clock. IIRC, the /23+ has 22-bit memory John> management. Does the /23 have 18-bit memory management? If John> so, and you meet the other requirements, it should work. That depends on whether RSTS V7 had Qbus device support. I don't remember anymore. Later versions certainly did; RSTS V9 or V10 for example should work fine. But I don't remember when the first Qbus system support arrived. Just booting the sysgen disk or tape will tell you. If you can get to the INIT prompt, tell it "hardware list". If you see all your devices, you should be in business. paul From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 17 10:53:51 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: Message-ID: <002d01c43c27$26988f60$a0340f14@mcothran1> I have it up and running on simh, but I don't remember telling simh that I was setting up a specific model of a PDP-11. I'll try doing another sysgen on simh, matching to the hardware that I have, then transfer the image to an RL01 using VTServer and see what happens. - A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: Re: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 > On Mon, 17 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > I acquired a PDP 11/23 this weekend. It runs RT-11, which boots fine from either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E on an 11/23? I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. > I know it works on the (emulated) 11/23-PLUS because one of my > customers runs it that way, but that is RSTS/E V8.07. Dunno > much about RSTS, but I can probably try it on an emulator for > you :) > > --f > From emu at ecubics.com Mon May 17 10:57:47 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A8E0FB.9060303@ecubics.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > The 11/23 is 18-bit addressing, the 11/23+ is 22-bit, so, yes, the > /23 will work just fine, should have a slightly faster system than > on the /34 he was used to running it on ;) Both 11/23 and the 11/23+ have 22-bit addresses. Only very early revisions of the 11/23 board had 18 bit. From lists at microvax.org Mon May 17 11:01:19 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200405171701.19962.lists@microvax.org> On Monday 17 May 2004 11:06, Jules Richardson wrote: > I passed on the huge Apple Quadra tower that was in the skip, and the > numerous PCs that were in there... :) Can you remember which Quadra it was, or was it a case of "Ick, grungy apple! Run away!"? alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 17 10:57:33 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <40A8E0FB.9060303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Both 11/23 and the 11/23+ have 22-bit addresses. Only very early > revisions of the 11/23 board had 18 bit. Oh! I learn something every day! I'll check my boards, dunno whether I have new ones. I do have old ones, since they're Q18. Thanks, Fred From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 17 11:18:55 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: References: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1084810735.9276.93.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 15:32, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does the "AppleCD 300 Plus" support 512-byte blocks? If that's what Sun machines need, then yes - I've just finished installing Solaris from it :) > >No idea why this machine was thrown out. It seems to work so far. Maybe > > It was probably tossed because it's old and slow. Having said that, > awesome find, in my opinion, that's one of the best systems for > running OpenBSD (I've often wished I had one). One of these days > I'll get one, I've managed to get everything between the Sparc 2 and > Ultra 60, except it and an Ultra 30 for free :^) Heh - I got hold of a Sparc 1, 2, 4, and 10 the other day and there's an IPX on the way (and a few Sparc 5's in the pipeline) as a local site's upgrading and so having a clear-out - I think they're keeping all their Ultra machines though. Those ones are all off to the museum though. Then this Sparc 4, 10 and the Ultra turned up yesterday - funny thing is I've been wanting to get hold of a Sun machine of some form for years, and suddenly lots turn up at once :-) I'll have to have a look at OpenBSD - I've got spare drives so can stick a copy on one of the others. I assume Suns are quite happy booting from different SCSI targets.... I'll have to find a framebuffer of some sort for this one (I've got a nice 21" Sun monitor sitting over at the museum which could run with it). I think one of the machines destined for the museum had both a framebuffer on board and a seperate CG6 card, so I might put the card in this Ultra for now. It could badly do with some more memory too. I suppose I class this machine as 'new', but they're perhaps one of the last few 'modern' machines that are interesting to hack around on though. cheers Jules From emu at ecubics.com Mon May 17 11:22:15 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A8E6B7.3030407@ecubics.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: >>Both 11/23 and the 11/23+ have 22-bit addresses. Only very early >>revisions of the 11/23 board had 18 bit. > > Oh! I learn something every day! I'll check my boards, dunno > whether I have new ones. I do have old ones, since they're Q18. I think it is somewhere in the micronotes, which revision was the first 22-bits... From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 17 11:23:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: <200405171701.19962.lists@microvax.org> References: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> <200405171701.19962.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <1084811008.9276.99.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 16:01, meltie wrote: > On Monday 17 May 2004 11:06, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I passed on the huge Apple Quadra tower that was in the skip, and the > > numerous PCs that were in there... :) > > Can you remember which Quadra it was, or was it a case of "Ick, grungy > apple! Run away!"? Heh - I don't really know Macs at all. I have '960' stuck in my head, but I had a quick look on lowendmac.com and didn't see that listed - I swear there was a 9 and a 6 in there (I don't think 690 was listed either, so who knows!). There was no CDROM in the machine, just a plastic plate where one would presumably go. I didn't open it up to see if it had any boards inside that could be useful to someone and kind of regret that now! cheers Jules From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 17 11:31:20 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) References: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> <200405171701.19962.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <006a01c43c2c$62d30280$7d2c1941@game> The only huge Apple Quadra tower I know about is a 950, and those are heavy (I have one). ----- Original Message ----- From: "meltie" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:01 PM Subject: Re: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) > On Monday 17 May 2004 11:06, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I passed on the huge Apple Quadra tower that was in the skip, and the > > numerous PCs that were in there... :) > > Can you remember which Quadra it was, or was it a case of "Ick, grungy > apple! Run away!"? > > alex/melt > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 17 11:46:22 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Sparc 10 PSU connector pinout anyone? Message-ID: <1084812381.9276.105.camel@weka.localdomain> Looks like the Ultra doesn't need any more attention to convince me it's working, so I just tried the Sparc 10. The fans spin, and I'm getting good +5 and +12V on the hard disk power connector, but no power LED and no console activity. I notice that (apart from the pin nearest the PSU, which is at +5V), all the other pins along the frontmost row of the PSU connector register no voltage, which *could* be a problem. Anyone have the proper pinout handy? (At least this machine's on topic :-) cheers Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon May 17 12:42:54 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: In message <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> Jules Richardson wrote: > An Acorn A5000, The desktop version of the A4 laptop. RISC OS 3.11, 4MB upgradeable to 8MB if you fit a second MEMC, IIRC. > with a board called a "Colourcard" in it - I assume > it's some sort of video board with a better spec than the standard video > output? If that's the Computer Concepts Colour Card, you'd be right. IIRC it allows you to run high-resolution monitors on the lower-end RISC hardware. Sort of like the Windfall Engineering Viewfinder card. > I got keyboards and mice for all three machines, which was nice. Also > found two seperate Ethernet cards Some people have all the luck. I'm after an Econet card for my A4 laptop. It doesn't have to work - I'm mainly interested in the grey plastic mounting plate. > Artworks software and a pile of Artworks dongles. If you've got a fairly recent version of Artworks (v1.7 was the last version from Computer Concepts, IIRC), MW Software (www.mw-software.com) will upgrade it to the latest version (v2.21) for just over ?120, IIRC. AW2.2 is well worth having (says he who's only had his copy since the Wakefield show on Saturday). I've been using it to design iconsprites (the sprite that RISC OS displays above the filename for an application in a Filer window) for my apps. Plenty of fun :) I think the early Artworks dongles had a few glitches - they interfered with printing, IIRC. I had a copy of Impression Publisher Plus that used a dongle. The dongle kept "disappearing", then Impression quit. I think I ended up paying ?20 to get Computer Concepts to upgrade it to the non-dongle version which has worked fine ever since. > several small-capacity IDE drives Any 2.5" drives? I'm after something between 150 an 500MB for my A4 laptops :-/ > I passed on the huge Apple Quadra tower that was in the skip, and the > numerous PCs that were in there... :) You found that lot in a skip? Wow. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... "Bother", said Pooh, as the read/write heads flew across the room. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 17 13:05:23 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) In-Reply-To: <16552.52628.178151.580881@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <00c201c4391d$d4f55820$0500a8c0@floyd> <7320f0ae4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <000301c43b4d$c4f61a40$8a444ed5@geoff> <16552.52628.178151.580881@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405171807.OAA13807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > 63/37 is the optimal tin/lead alloy; its melting point is a little > lower than 60/40 alloy. I thought the reason 63/37 (or whatever the precise ratio is - I think it's something like 63.7/36.3, no?) was preferred was that it had a melting _point_ rather than a melting _range_. (Whether this is tied to its being the eutectic mixture is something I'm not enough of an alloy scientist to know.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 17 13:15:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <16552.52292.960029.87677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> <200405160509.BAA20754@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16552.52292.960029.87677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200405171818.OAA13887@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > English is, by far, the most widely understood language in the world. > (In other words, counting both first and second language skills.) I spent six months in Norway a year or two back. When there, I was talking with a Dutch man who had moved there; he was telling me of a talk he'd given to a Norwegian audience (academics all, all competent in English) in which he'd joked that he could give the talk "in the largest language in the world, English as spoken by foreigners, or the smallest language in the world, Norwegian as spoken by foreigners". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From beclassic at att.net Mon May 17 10:28:39 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (bill bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3> Here's one person's notes: 1983 April-RSTS/E Version 8.0-06. Support for the recently announced PDP Micro 11/23 system (RD51 10 megabyte disk, 2*RX50 400K byte floppies, 128K words memory). http://www.silverware.co.uk/rsts_80th_birthday.htm bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 I acquired a PDP 11/23 this weekend. It runs RT-11, which boots fine from either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E on an 11/23? I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. Ashley From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 13:53:13 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> <004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: <16553.2585.675957.217165@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "bill" == bill bailey writes: bill> Here's one person's notes: 1983 April-RSTS/E Version bill> 8.0-06. Support for the recently announced PDP Micro 11/23 bill> system (RD51 10 megabyte disk, 2*RX50 400K byte floppies, 128K bill> words memory). bill> http://www.silverware.co.uk/rsts_80th_birthday.htm Oh my goodness... that takes me back... (I thought it was a 100th birthday article -- but in any case, that article or one very much like it was presented at the RSTS 20th birthday celebration at New Orleans DECUS.) Thanks Bill! paul From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 17 14:05:36 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1><004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3> <16553.2585.675957.217165@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <003b01c43c41$f0585c80$99100f14@mcothran1> Paul, you probably know the answer to this. I've seen this site before and wondered where the line is that separates fact from fiction. Somewhere around 1990, obviously, but the line has been craftily blurred by the author of this 100th birthday thing. I have done studied my DEC / RSTS / PDP-11 history enough to pick out anything that is fictitious prior to stuff in the early 90s. Is everything up to 1990 fact? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 > >>>>> "bill" == bill bailey writes: > > bill> Here's one person's notes: 1983 April-RSTS/E Version > bill> 8.0-06. Support for the recently announced PDP Micro 11/23 > bill> system (RD51 10 megabyte disk, 2*RX50 400K byte floppies, 128K > bill> words memory). > > bill> http://www.silverware.co.uk/rsts_80th_birthday.htm > > Oh my goodness... that takes me back... (I thought it was a 100th > birthday article -- but in any case, that article or one very much > like it was presented at the RSTS 20th birthday celebration at New > Orleans DECUS.) > > Thanks Bill! > > paul > From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 17 14:10:54 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1><004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3><16553.2585.675957.217165@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <003b01c43c41$f0585c80$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <006001c43c42$ad9fb6d0$99100f14@mcothran1> Should have been worded as follows: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: Re: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 > Paul, you probably know the answer to this. > > I've seen this site before and wondered where the line is > that separates fact from fiction. Somewhere around 1990, > obviously, but the line has been craftily blurred by the author > of this 100th birthday thing. I have done studied my *** "I have NOT studied my" > DEC / RSTS / PDP-11 history enough to pick out anything > that is fictitious prior to stuff in the early 90s. Is everything > up to 1990 fact? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Koning" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 > > > > >>>>> "bill" == bill bailey writes: > > > > bill> Here's one person's notes: 1983 April-RSTS/E Version > > bill> 8.0-06. Support for the recently announced PDP Micro 11/23 > > bill> system (RD51 10 megabyte disk, 2*RX50 400K byte floppies, 128K > > bill> words memory). > > > > bill> http://www.silverware.co.uk/rsts_80th_birthday.htm > > > > Oh my goodness... that takes me back... (I thought it was a 100th > > birthday article -- but in any case, that article or one very much > > like it was presented at the RSTS 20th birthday celebration at New > > Orleans DECUS.) > > > > Thanks Bill! > > > > paul > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 17 14:12:16 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search In-Reply-To: <16552.52292.960029.87677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> <200405160509.BAA20754@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16552.52292.960029.87677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040517120849.J31964@newshell.lmi.net> > >> In a hundred years the world will be speaking and writing Hindu or > >> whatever dialect is popular in China and India On Mon, 17 May 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Correct -- English is, by far, the most widely understood language in > the world. (In other words, counting both first and second language > skills.) English is, indeed, the CURRENT Linqua Franca. I agree that it will likely take more than "a hundred years" for that to change, but NOT that it can't change. From fdebros at verizon.net Mon May 17 09:10:04 2004 From: fdebros at verizon.net (fdebros@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Large (?) DEC 2000/x cache in Boston Message-ID: <20040517141004.HEHC1551.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Folks, I have the spring cleaning derwish on my back: I have about 8 decstation 2000/x most of them loaded with ram! plus monitors plus cables, kbds, tapes, cdroms and networking and of course expansion boxen to get rid of plus 3 vlc4000 and manuals galore plus an infoserver vax and a vs3100...i think. These are located in downtown Boston. All would fit in a Suburban, just about. better in a van. the only rule: no cherry picking. Any interest now that the MIT swap is back on? Fred 617 723 5768 eves fcfs From bill at timeguy.com Mon May 17 14:21:56 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home Message-ID: <20040517192156.GA66764@outpost.timeguy.com> I have an IBM AT with all original docs and keyboard, in like-new condition from the original owner. It can be yours for the price of shipping. Note that it has an upgrade VGA video card in place of the usual mono or CGA/EGA card, and that it currently will not boot from the hard drive (which is why he finally upgraded to a PC made in the last 20 years). A 14" VGA monitor, IBM ProPrinter, and Okidata 320 printer are also available as part of the bundle. E-mail if you have questions or want the thing. Note that I ship via Mailboxes Etc. so be prepared to pay their packing/shipping rates or arrange to pick it up. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 14:23:04 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> <004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3> <16553.2585.675957.217165@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <003b01c43c41$f0585c80$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16553.4376.428369.815319@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Paul, you probably know the answer to this. I've seen this Ashley> site before and wondered where the line is that separates Ashley> fact from fiction. Somewhere around 1990, obviously, but the Ashley> line has been craftily blurred by the author of this 100th Ashley> birthday thing. I have done studied my DEC / RSTS / PDP-11 Ashley> history enough to pick out anything that is fictitious prior Ashley> to stuff in the early 90s. Is everything up to 1990 fact? >>> http://www.silverware.co.uk/rsts_80th_birthday.htm As far I can tell, yes, pretty much. That fits, because it was written for the 20th birthday bash. There may be some historical errors. For example, I don't know if RSTS has any relationship to IOX. I rather doubt it (but I've never seen the IOX sources, and I only barely glanced at the docs around 30 years ago...) The cultural heritage is TSS-8, from what I've heard, though I can't confirm that from personal knowledge either. The change from .CIL to .SIL happened with RSTS V5B... TECO did appear -- as a real RTS, not as two Basic programs -- in V5A... Some of the fantasy items have a connection to reality: - There wasn't a Unix RTS, but Bob Fraser ported csh to RSTS. - Basic for RT11 supported line numbers up to 65532. - Directory and data cache can be displayed with SDA. paul From lists at microvax.org Mon May 17 14:36:03 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: <1084811008.9276.99.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> <200405171701.19962.lists@microvax.org> <1084811008.9276.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200405172036.04051.lists@microvax.org> On Monday 17 May 2004 17:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 16:01, meltie wrote: > > On Monday 17 May 2004 11:06, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > I passed on the huge Apple Quadra tower that was in the skip, and > > > the numerous PCs that were in there... :) > > > > Can you remember which Quadra it was, or was it a case of "Ick, grungy > > apple! Run away!"? > > Heh - I don't really know Macs at all. I have '960' stuck in my head, > but I had a quick look on lowendmac.com and didn't see that listed - I > swear there was a 9 and a 6 in there (I don't think 690 was listed > either, so who knows!). 950? http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_quadra/stats/mac_quadra_950.html Big workhorse of a machine, would make quite a decent SCSI server if you went back for it. Full MC68040 on it so it'll run various UNIXen fine... and hey, if it turns out to be a 950 and you're close to Leeds i'll come and fish it out of the skip myself ;) alex/melt From tomj at wps.com Mon May 17 14:40:53 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: COSMAC BASIC hex dump In-Reply-To: <000501c43b8f$e5ee5360$6401a8c0@hal9000> References: <1084560606.1943.18.camel@dhcp-250048.mobile.uci.edu> <000501c43b8f$e5ee5360$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <1084822852.3566.69.camel@dhcp-251087> Well, I don't want to part with the manual, just offering copies of the hex dump, assuming that usable software for the 1802 was in short supply. The BASIC section is pretty short. The rest of the book is hardware specs for the cards, and is too much to copy. If you want the BASIC section copied I can do that... gimme your mailing address and I'll which whiz it off to you. On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 14:51, Steven Canning wrote: > Tom, > > I would be happy to pay postage plus some beer money for the manual. I have > a "working" COSMAC in my hobby lab. It would be nice to have the manual. I > am in So California. If this sounds good I can send you a mailing address > "offline" and we can swap info. Thanks a bunch ! > > Best regards, Steven > > P.S. You are correct in that it builds anything but character ! > > > I just moved my lab (ugh) and all it's contents (kilopounds), and > inevitably paused to look at junk along the way, and found my RCA COSMAC > DEVELOPMENT KIT manual. It's got a hex listing (remember those) for a > tiny BASIC for the 1802. > > If it's not already commonly available I'll (postal) mail a copy so's > you can have all the true vintage experience of typing in hex dumps then > finding the errors. > > I quite distinctly recall the abominable process of typing in ANIMALS or > somesuch nonsense from the SWTP docs way back when. Ugh. Wouldn't wish > it on anyone, and no, it did not build character. > > From melamy at earthlink.net Mon May 17 14:45:22 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home Message-ID: <7111578.1084823122972.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I'll take it. I have been looking for a real AT... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: Bill Richman Sent: May 17, 2004 3:21 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home I have an IBM AT with all original docs and keyboard, in like-new condition from the original owner. It can be yours for the price of shipping. Note that it has an upgrade VGA video card in place of the usual mono or CGA/EGA card, and that it currently will not boot from the hard drive (which is why he finally upgraded to a PC made in the last 20 years). A 14" VGA monitor, IBM ProPrinter, and Okidata 320 printer are also available as part of the bundle. E-mail if you have questions or want the thing. Note that I ship via Mailboxes Etc. so be prepared to pay their packing/shipping rates or arrange to pick it up. From dundas at caltech.edu Mon May 17 14:47:43 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <16553.4376.428369.815319@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> <004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3> <16553.2585.675957.217165@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <003b01c43c41$f0585c80$99100f14@mcothran1> <16553.4376.428369.815319@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: At 3:23 PM -0400 5/17/04, Paul Koning wrote: >- There wasn't a Unix RTS, but Bob Fraser ported csh to RSTS. Not as such, at least to my knowledge. Though I (probably others as well) did investigate trying to write an RTS that would do this in the early '80s. I also wrote a shell KBM for RSTS and attempted to sell it under the DSG Systems name. John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 17 14:51:20 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "Re: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23" (May 17, 17:57) References: Message-ID: <10405172051.ZM10642@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 17, 17:57, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > Both 11/23 and the 11/23+ have 22-bit addresses. Only very early > > revisions of the 11/23 board had 18 bit. > Oh! I learn something every day! I'll check my boards, dunno > whether I have new ones. I do have old ones, since they're Q18. Original 11/23 *backplanes* are 18-bit, though they can be rewired to be 22-bit. AFAIR, the only 18-bit 11/23 CPU was the Rev.A KDF11-A (the first dual-height one). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Mon May 17 14:54:21 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) Message-ID: >> Heh - I don't really know Macs at all. I have '960' stuck in my head, >> but I had a quick look on lowendmac.com and didn't see that listed - I >> swear there was a 9 and a 6 in there (I don't think 690 was listed >> either, so who knows!). UGH... go back and get it. You probably left behind a PowerMac 9600! DAMN good Macs. Fully upgradable to a G4 processor, and it has 6 PCI slots (last Mac to have 6 slots, and one of the few to ever have that many). They sell used for $100 with stock processors (200-350 MHz IIRC). Grab it, buy a $100 G3 or G4 processor upgrade, and have a 6 slot OS X runnable Mac (OS X requires the patch from XLR8 to install, but it will work once installed). -chris From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon May 17 15:08:10 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040517130422.04429ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 03:17 AM 5/17/2004, you wrote: >At the moment it's set to boot from the network - any idea how I can >interrupt that and get into the boot monitor in order to switch that >off? I think there's some key combination to do it from a keyboard, but >of course I don't have one handy at the moment - just the console. if you are using a serial terminal send a break and it should drop you to the OK prompt, and from there you can set the auto-boot? enviornment variable to dalse and it will drop to the OK prompt on powerup. >There's a clear perspex bracket above the CPU for holding a fan, but no >fan. As this machine had been stripped before I got it, I don't know if >it should have one and someone had taken it out. The CPU has a large >finned heatsink on it - on the web I saw a vague report that Sun may >have stopped putting fans in the machines on later ones and just used a >larger heatsink. Any ideas? IF it has the bracket for the fan, DO NOT RUN IT WITHOUT THE FAN. you WILL fry the CPU. find a fan of appropriate size and install it. the newer heatsinks are as taller and have a thin plastic ducting on them to channel air from the fan in the powersupply over to cool the CPU >Finally, any clue as to whether the Apple SCSI CDROM I got will work in >the Ultra? It's a 1993 vintage drive, an "AppleCD 300 Plus". If not, I >do have a SCSI drive that'll do both 512 and 2048 block sizes, but it's >in a running machine at the moment... Ok, with solaris 7 and newer it -should- be able to boot. Ultras are still supported in solaris 8 IIRC and you can get it free from sun (download ISO images and burn them) >No idea why this machine was thrown out. It seems to work so far. Maybe >it has an intermittant fault when it's been running for a while, or >maybe the network interface is dead (according to console messages it >notices when a cable's present or not though). > >cheers > >Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 17 14:58:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Computer Estate( and collecting) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040517155839.0087c3d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:05 PM 5/17/04 -0400, you wrote: >> 63/37 is the optimal tin/lead alloy; its melting point is a little >> lower than 60/40 alloy. > >I thought the reason 63/37 (or whatever the precise ratio is - I think >it's something like 63.7/36.3, no?) was preferred was that it had a >melting _point_ rather than a melting _range_. (Whether this is tied >to its being the eutectic mixture is something I'm not enough of an >alloy scientist to know.) 63/37 has the lowest melting point and the lowest or close to lowest "plastic" range. The Lyman books on bullet casting have some good explanations and charts on this. Joe From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 17 15:27:12 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search References: <004e01c43b02$8db74c70$7d2c1941@game> <200405160509.BAA20754@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16552.52292.960029.87677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040517120849.J31964@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <001601c43c4d$562a0800$7d2c1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: Re: opinions on very long term storage and references from Google search > > >> In a hundred years the world will be speaking and writing Hindu or > > >> whatever dialect is popular in China and India > > On Mon, 17 May 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > > Correct -- English is, by far, the most widely understood language in > > the world. (In other words, counting both first and second language > > skills.) > > English is, indeed, the CURRENT Linqua Franca. > > I agree that it will likely take more than "a hundred years" for that to > change, but NOT that it can't change. > > It all comes from who owns the trade markets at the time. For a long time England and then the US controlled the market flow of raw materials and money/finished goods so everybody who wanted to trade had to learn English and then American slang. Since quite a bit of the raw materials and manufacturing is going on in India, Taiwan, and China these days (seen quite a few advertisements years back for people that knew injection molding and could speak fluent mandarin), I figure there will be a shift sooner or later to another language (even if its English with Chinese slang). Once the shift takes place it will probably take 3 generations for a major change, so yea maybe 100 years is a bit optimistic but 150 years is not. Things change rapidly these days, how long was Latin the deFacto standard? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 17 15:31:20 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1084825879.9276.209.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 19:54, chris wrote: > >> Heh - I don't really know Macs at all. I have '960' stuck in my head, > >> but I had a quick look on lowendmac.com and didn't see that listed - I > >> swear there was a 9 and a 6 in there (I don't think 690 was listed > >> either, so who knows!). > > UGH... go back and get it. > > You probably left behind a PowerMac 9600! DAMN good Macs. I don't think it was *that* good. I'm certain it was only three numbers, not four. It could well have been a 950 - given the dusty dirty skip it was lying it it's not impossible to believe that dirt made the 5 look like a 6 :-) cheers Jules From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 15:31:59 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040517130422.04429ec0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at May 17, 2004 01:08:10 PM Message-ID: <200405172032.i4HKVxbV007677@onyx.spiritone.com> > >Finally, any clue as to whether the Apple SCSI CDROM I got will work in > >the Ultra? It's a 1993 vintage drive, an "AppleCD 300 Plus". If not, I > >do have a SCSI drive that'll do both 512 and 2048 block sizes, but it's > >in a running machine at the moment... > > Ok, with solaris 7 and newer it -should- be able to boot. Ultras are still > supported in solaris 8 IIRC and you can get it free from sun (download ISO > images and burn them) Are you talking about the OS ignoring the whole 512-byte issue, or what? I don't know what the minimum supported OS for an Ultra 1 is, but I know that it should be prior to 2.5.1 (I know 2.5.1 will run on an Ultra 10). Zane From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 17 15:34:11 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: <200405172036.04051.lists@microvax.org> References: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> <200405171701.19962.lists@microvax.org> <1084811008.9276.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <200405172036.04051.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <20040517203411.GA19411@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 08:36:03PM +0100, meltie wrote: > 950? > http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_quadra/stats/mac_quadra_950.html > > Big workhorse of a machine, would make quite a decent SCSI server if you > went back for it. Full MC68040 on it so it'll run various UNIXen fine... If you are lucky, it will have a full boat of RAM, otherwise, you need fistfuls of 4MB 30-pin SIMMs. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-May-2004 20:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.9 F (-35.5 C) Windchill -85 F (-65 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.5 kts Grid 326 Barometer 689.4 mb (10274 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cb at mythtech.net Mon May 17 15:46:12 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) Message-ID: >I don't think it was *that* good. I'm certain it was only three numbers, >not four. It could well have been a 950 - given the dusty dirty skip it >was lying it it's not impossible to believe that dirt made the 5 look >like a 6 :-) What may be tell tale is, did you actually see the name Quadra on it (I came in late, so I responded before without realizing you called it a Quadra). If so, then it is not a 9600. A large tower with Quadra on the name plate would be a 900 or 950 (there were no 96x in the Quadra line, although there were some 6xx, but no 69x and the 6 series were all desktop cases, not towers). Slightly smaller tower would be the 8xx series A Q950 still isn't a bad machine, but not as big of a deal to abondon (I have a WorkGroup Server 95 which is the Quadra 950 with a different software package). -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 17 16:14:15 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) References: Message-ID: <008801c43c53$e87e25f0$7d2c1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: Re: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) > >I don't think it was *that* good. I'm certain it was only three numbers, > >not four. It could well have been a 950 - given the dusty dirty skip it > >was lying it it's not impossible to believe that dirt made the 5 look > >like a 6 :-) > > What may be tell tale is, did you actually see the name Quadra on it (I > came in late, so I responded before without realizing you called it a > Quadra). If so, then it is not a 9600. A large tower with Quadra on the > name plate would be a 900 or 950 (there were no 96x in the Quadra line, > although there were some 6xx, but no 69x and the 6 series were all > desktop cases, not towers). Slightly smaller tower would be the 8xx series > > A Q950 still isn't a bad machine, but not as big of a deal to abondon (I > have a WorkGroup Server 95 which is the Quadra 950 with a different > software package). > > -chris > > > The AWS 95 has the A/UX software package along with a PDS SCSI (with DMA) and processor cache card (the rest of the system is the same). My 950 with the previous mentioned cache card (with 512k cache) runs A/UX 3.1 fairly well for such an old machine and slow processor. A base 950 can be found for $39 @ http://www.shrevesystems.com/ while the aws95 is $99 at the same place (cheaper at eBay but shipping is always padded). I would not bother digging a whole 950 out of the trash if its that dirty, but I would open it up and grab all the cards (especially if it had a PDS server upgrade card) along with the memory and any special faceplates (DAT or CDROM since they are hard to find and sell easily). If your real lucky you might find the mythical rare 5 bay HD rack which would sell for $$$, I have never seen one myself. Even the plain 950s were used with exotic sound and video capture cards (nubus slots) and quite a few still go for a premium on ebay by themselves. So the machine might not be special in and of itself, but the parts inside could be. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 17 16:29:51 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040517212951.GA22418@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 11:05:25AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > I acquired a PDP 11/23 this weekend. It runs RT-11, which boots fine from either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E on an 11/23? I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN RSTS/E v7.0 on this machine, but in looking over some info on RSTS/E, it does not list the 11/23 as one of the systems that RSTS/E will run on. Hmm... good question... we used to run RSTS/E v7.0 on Unibus hardware, and RSX 11/M 4.x on Qbus hardware, but I don't know if that was because of a compatibility issue, or our own machine availability. The 11/23 and 11/24 have a KDF-11 CPU chip, so it can't be that. I would _think_ that if you could get a tape controller that was compatible with whatever RSTS wants (I'd guess "MT", not "MS", given the era), and you had a compatible disk controller, an RLV11 or RLV12, I don't know why you _couldn't_ bring RSTS/E 7.0 up on an 11/23. 5MB isn't a lot of room, but it is probably enough. You have a blank pack for that RL01? What are you using for a v7.0 distro? That, I think, would be the limiting factor. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-May-2004 21:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.9 F (-35.5 C) Windchill -77.8 F (-61 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.2 kts Grid 333 Barometer 689.4 mb (10274 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 17 16:46:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> <20040517212951.GA22418@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16553.12993.872605.258244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 11:05:25AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >> I acquired a PDP 11/23 this weekend. It runs RT-11, which boots >> fine from either the RL01 or RX01s. Has anyone ever attempted to >> run RSTS/E on an 11/23? I was thinking about attempting to SYSGEN >> RSTS/E v7.0 on this machine, but in looking over some info on >> RSTS/E, it does not list the 11/23 as one of the systems that >> RSTS/E will run on. Ethan> The 11/23 and 11/24 have a KDF-11 CPU chip, so it can't be Ethan> that. I would _think_ that if you could get a tape controller Ethan> that was compatible with whatever RSTS wants (I'd guess "MT", Ethan> not "MS", given the era), and you had a compatible disk Ethan> controller, an RLV11 or RLV12, I don't know why you _couldn't_ Ethan> bring RSTS/E 7.0 up on an 11/23. Interesting point. Qbus definitely matters for 22 bit support -- I/O addressing is completely different for 11/70 (UMR and RH70 extended address registers) vs. Q22 (extended address registers in RLV11 etc.) But that issue doesn't appear for 18-bit Qbus systems. So yes, you may be right, RL01 may work via RLV11 simply because it looks sufficiently like an RL11. Ditto for single line terminal interface. Not so for muxes; DZ11 is 8 line vs. 4 lines for DZV11. The "80th anniversary" article mentions 11/23 and RSTS 7.1 around the same time, but 7.0 a year earlier. Ethan> 5MB isn't a lot of room, but it is probably enough. You have Ethan> a blank pack for that RL01? What are you using for a v7.0 Ethan> distro? That, I think, would be the limiting factor. RL02 is 10 MB, that would be better... The 1982 "system/options summary" on bitsavers.org shows RSTS for 11/23plus on RL02 distribution. RL01 would be quite tight though certainly a handcrafted subset of the kit should fit. paul From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon May 17 17:28:12 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: DEC boards Message-ID: Found in the bin this weekend at Drayton Manor Radio Rally. One EPROM board with 12 27C010 EPROMs and a label on the back saying "VT1000 2.2". One SIMM carrier board with three 64 pin SIMM slots, one populated with a 1MB SIMM. Are these any use to anyone? I can dump the EPROM contents if needed. I did make a note of the DEC part numbers but left it at home (doh!). Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon May 17 17:39:18 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <40A8E0FB.9060303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: >>> Both 11/23 and the 11/23+ have 22-bit addresses. Only very >>> early revisions of the 11/23 board had 18 bit. If memory serves me, there was a significant interval where the 11/23 BOARD had 22-bit addressing, but the standard backplane/chassis only had 18 bits wired. Been about twenty years, and I am doing this from memory. Wonder what ever happended to Ralph Stammerjohn.....???? From zmerch at 30below.com Mon May 17 17:40:05 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517175220.00aed480@mail.30below.com> Well, amazingly, I'm still alive after my trip to the Dayton Hamvention... ;-) Got down there Friday nite, so I didn't get any chance to peruse the flea-market booths then (which is when I'm told most of the classic schtuff is available...) on Saturday, it rained like a ... Well, a lot. It didn't ease off until about 1600hrs, when I finally figured I'd "venture out into the wilderness", so most vendors were still wrapped up prolly figuring the entire day was a lost cause & went to drown their sorrows. I did see a Heathkit EPROM burner (4800? methinks) - guy wanted $50 but "might" take $40. I told him I'd think about it, it was gone Sunday. (It did have the personality modules up to a 27256.) Dunno if it was a good buy or not. That was all I saw for classic gear (other than PeeCees that were 10+ years old, I'm not counting that due to the boredom associated with said particular platform. ;-) [1] Sunday was nicer, overcast but warmer & no rain, so it was a good day to do some exploring, and all I saw was a TI-44/9a with 1 cart for $20, an unpriced Apple //e, and some unpriced assorted Suns. Altho I'm not "the most worldly wize d00d on the planet" I do know that most of the time, if it's unmarked, the price doubles when you ask. I generally don't waste my time or theirs. ;-) Nothing Tandy-ish, let alone Model 10x/200 which is what I was hoping for... :-( As a lead-in to another thread, tho, I did pick up a soldering station & desoldering gun. For $100 I got a Hakko 939 soldering station w/1 tip (it's fine for medium work, but for some fine circuitry I'd want a finer tip), photocopied manual, and key (yes, you need a small "punch-card" key to change the temperature & the configuration... each tip has a "temperature coefficient" that you key into the station, to keep an exact temperature, AFAICT)... Anyone else have any experience with this brand/model of soldering station? The cheapest I'd found on ePay (tho I didn't search completed auctions yet) was $150, and it looks like they still make 'em for about $400, so I think I did OK... I also snagged a $65 Soder-Wick SC-5000 desoldering gun. My only concern is that the guy told me the filters are no longer being produced for this model (he had the SC-7000, but I didn't have the $475 required to purchase the rascal). I've already googled around a bit for this model, and I got 1 website: His. The filter on it right now is "nearly new" and he stated that it would take me a long time to wear that filter out, but I'm still concerned about finding replacements. Anyone know or use this model? Oh, and I did find an AUI transceiver for my Vaxstation so when I have the room to set that up again... Externally powered (never seen one of those before) w/wallwart, $3. Not too bad... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] and there were a *lot* of them. Anything from a '386 & up could be had for anywhere from super-cheap to "what the hell are you smoking" prices. Sad, really... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | JC: "Like those people in Celeronville!" sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Me: "Don't you mean Silicon Valley???" zmerch@30below.com | JC: "Yea, that's the place!" | JC == Jeremy Christian From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 17 17:40:15 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:38 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <16553.12993.872605.258244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1> <20040517212951.GA22418@bos7.spole.gov> <16553.12993.872605.258244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040517224015.GB26749@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 05:46:41PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: > > Ethan> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 11:05:25AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > >> Has anyone ever attempted to run RSTS/E on an 11/23? > > Ethan> The 11/23 and 11/24 have a KDF-11 CPU chip, so it can't be > Ethan> that. I would _think_ that if you could get a tape controller > Ethan> that was compatible with whatever RSTS wants (I'd guess "MT", > Ethan> not "MS", given the era), and you had a compatible disk > Ethan> controller, an RLV11 or RLV12, I don't know why you _couldn't_ > Ethan> bring RSTS/E 7.0 up on an 11/23. > > Interesting point. > > Qbus definitely matters for 22 bit support -- I/O addressing is > completely different for 11/70 (UMR and RH70 extended address > registers) vs. Q22 (extended address registers in RLV11 etc.) But > that issue doesn't appear for 18-bit Qbus systems. So yes, you may be > right, RL01 may work via RLV11 simply because it looks sufficiently > like an RL11. Right... I was thinking of mentioning that, but didn't have a good way to phrase it... you might be limited to 18-bit addressing on the 11/23, but presuming you had device support, it should work. > Ditto for single line terminal interface. Not so for muxes; DZ11 is 8 > line vs. 4 lines for DZV11. True... but the DLV11J might be OK... if not, a few DLV11Es should do the trick, if you want more than just the console. > RL02 is 10 MB, that would be better... The 1982 "system/options > summary" on bitsavers.org shows RSTS for 11/23plus on RL02 > distribution. RL01 would be quite tight though certainly a > handcrafted subset of the kit should fit. Also true... we used to run RSTS/E on Unibus machines around 1984-1985 with between 2 and 4 RL02 drives (the accounting 11/24 had 4 drives, but at least 2 of them were for payroll data, etc.) We never had RL01s at wrk, so I can't say if it will fit, but if it does, it'll be tight. RT-11 in 5MB is fine - I did software development c. 1987 at home on my 11/23 (a former HASPBOX for fans of sync serial comms) w/RLV11, 256KB of RAM, LPV11/LA180, and a single RL01. I borrowed all the peripherals from my PDP-8/a and only had to purchase the 11/23 and the RLV11 ($400 out of pocket). Still have the machine... still one of my favorite PDP-11s (probably because I earned several thousand dollars with it!) ...but it's only ever run RT-11 while I've had it, not RSTS. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-May-2004 22:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.5 F (-35.3 C) Windchill -76.8 F (-60.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14 kts Grid 325 Barometer 689.2 mb (10281. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 17:29:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405171010.GAA11965@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 17, 4 06:02:59 am Message-ID: > That reminds me of once, some 15-20 years ago, when I was working as a > sysadmin. I happened to wander into the machine room while the field > circus[%] tech was doing a PM on our (removable-pack) disk drives. He > had the drive open and the guts all hanging out - and smoking. I assume the faild servoid was the thing that was smoking. I've had drives smoke, of course -- like other electronic devices they run on magic smoke (when it leaks out, they stop working :-)). If this had happened to me, I would have escorted that idiot off the site, and told DEC to send somebody who actually had a clue if they expected me to pay the service contract! No, I am not joking. FWIW, I forbid smoking anywhere near any of my machines, both for my health and theirs. > > I fear I went rather ballistic; we didn't let people smoke in that > machine room even under normal operating circumstances. I don't blame you! > [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or > "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), but in this case I don't know why you avoid such terms. They are sadly all too appropriate. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 17:31:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: new finds (Acorn, Sun, Apple) In-Reply-To: <1084788416.9276.18.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at May 17, 4 10:06:56 am Message-ID: > > > The following turned up yesterday from a couple of skips: Very nice finds! > > Two Acorn 420/1 machines, one with an ST506 drive and the other with > an IDE drive and interface. One has an Ethernet board fitted. Both seem > to have some sort of CPU upgrade fitted to them. Possibly an ARM3 upgrade? -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 17 16:54:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: References: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040517215448.GC22418@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 08:32:18AM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does the "AppleCD 300 Plus" support 512-byte blocks? I've got a 3rd > party 4x external drive I bought for my PowerBook 520c back in '95 > that I typically use on systems that require 512-byte blocks. > Somehow I got lucky! The computer is long dead, but the CD-ROM drive > gets used several times a year :^) My recollection is that it does, along with the older Apple CD-ROM drive (1x), but I wouldn't have used it on a SPARC for about 10 years (I used to have an ancient Sony drive for my SPARC-1 in 1994, and I *think* I used an Apple drive after the Sony drive died). That was back in my SunOS days, which are getting increasingly eclipsed (pun intended) by my ongoing Solaris experience (by 1996, I'd stopped working with SunOS entirely, in favor of Solaris). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-May-2004 21:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.9 F (-35.5 C) Windchill -73.59 F (-58.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.5 kts Grid 319 Barometer 689.3 mb (10277. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 17 17:58:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: <40A8E0FB.9060303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <20040517225859.GA29210@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 06:39:18PM -0400, David V. Corbin wrote: > If memory serves me, there was a significant interval where the 11/23 BOARD > had 22-bit addressing, but the standard backplane/chassis only had 18 bits > wired. Been about twenty years, and I am doing this from memory. Right... the BA11N is one of the Qbus boxes I have the most experience with... it comes from the factory as 18-bit, but can easily be upgraded to 22-bit. You have to use a 22-bit bus terminator or upgrade your 18-bit terminator, but it works. OTOH, ISTR there's an old LSI-11 CPU that used the "unused" bus lines for memory refresh, so that would be out of the question after the upgrade. These days, though, unless you are striving for some sort of visual authenticity, it's just as easy to throw your boards into a BA23 chassis and go from there. I have more BA23 boxes than I have uVAX CPUs, so it's an easy choice. But if all you have is an 11/23 in a BA11 of some flavor, you _can_ max it out. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-May-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -30.7 F (-34.9 C) Windchill -78.59 F (-61.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.2 kts Grid 328 Barometer 689.2 mb (10281. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon May 17 18:18:50 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: <200405172032.i4HKVxbV007677@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040517130422.04429ec0@mail.zipcon.net> <200405172032.i4HKVxbV007677@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040517161704.01ff9930@mail.zipcon.net> At 01:31 PM 5/17/2004, you wrote: >Are you talking about the OS ignoring the whole 512-byte issue, or what? I >don't know what the minimum supported OS for an Ultra 1 is, but I know that >it should be prior to 2.5.1 (I know 2.5.1 will run on an Ultra 10). it either ignores the 512 byte limitation or sets any compatible drive to 512 byte blocks ,I forget which. I have installed solaris 8 on my ultra 1's here, I haven't tried anything older than solaris 2.6 on them. From root at parse.com Mon May 17 15:54:17 2004 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC handbook series - official list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040517091727.008cbb40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 17, 2004 09:17:27 AM Message-ID: <200405172054.QAA23077@parse.com> Joe R. sez... > > Fred, > > There's no list that I'm aware of but it would be nice if someone made > up a list and posted it (Hint, Hint!) I have a few and I'll be happy to > make of the ones that I have. You could also look on my site; I have a collection of handbooks posted there. At least you could figure out which ones you don't have... http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp-common/books.html Cheers, -RK > > Joe > > > At 09:20 PM 5/16/04 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi all! > > > >While attempting to get some organization back into one of my > >study rooms (the one where all my DEC docs and media are), I > >again ran into the problem of organizing my collection of the > >wellknown "Handbook" series of DEC publications. > > > >I have many, but after sorting them out, and taking out the > >dupes (which *are* available for trade, by the way) I noticed > >some volumes were clearly missing in series where they had > >multiple-volume issues. > > > >So, is there (from DEC, or collected by us) some sort of > >"master list" of which handbooks were published by DEC? > > > >This would help me a lot in finding the ones I am missing, > >or think I am missing... > > > >Thankee, > > > >Fred > >-- > >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > > > > -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 17 19:09:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517175220.00aed480@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > on Saturday, it rained like a ... Well, a lot. It didn't ease off until > about 1600hrs, when I finally figured I'd "venture out into the > wilderness", so most vendors were still wrapped up prolly figuring the > entire day was a lost cause & went to drown their sorrows. I did see a Being that most everytime I hear about this Hamvention it gets rained out, why don't these folks move this event to a later date, like June? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 17 19:59:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517175220.00aed480@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040518005959.GB29210@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 05:09:29PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Being that most everytime I hear about this Hamvention it gets rained out, > why don't these folks move this event to a later date, like June? It's Ohio... it rains plenty in June, too, plus it's hotter (plus more heat equals more thunderstorms as opposed to simple rain). When I was in high-school, the Hamvention was in April... it rains then, too... Unlike California, we don't have a rainy season and a dry season... if it's outdoors, on any given month, there's a good chance for some flavor of precipitation... what changes is if it's liquid or solid. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-May-2004 00:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -33.4 F (-36.3 C) Windchill -80.09 F (-62.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.3 kts Grid 356 Barometer 688.8 mb (10297. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From aw288 at osfn.org Mon May 17 20:35:18 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures Message-ID: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.jpg http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.top.jpg http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.head.jpg William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Mon May 17 21:18:42 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <40A8E0FB.9060303@ecubics.com> <20040517225859.GA29210@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <00b901c43c7e$70de9e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Right... the BA11N is one of the Qbus boxes I have the > most experience with... it comes from the factory as 18-bit, > but can easily be upgraded to 22-bit... How is a person supposed to tell a BA11'18 from a BA11'22? Sounds like there are 4 / 8? signals that could be traced out? John A. warning to self: Too many question marks may appear to be a troll. From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 17 21:20:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... In-Reply-To: <20040518005959.GB29210@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Unlike California, we don't have a rainy season and a dry season... if > it's outdoors, on any given month, there's a good chance for some flavor > of precipitation... what changes is if it's liquid or solid. Sometimes I forget just how nice we have it out here. I guess I'll stop complaining about this really lame unseasonable windiness we've been blighted with the past couple days. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 17 21:22:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.jpg > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.top.jpg Woah, this is WAY different than mine. I'll have to get a photo. Mine is more of a workstation. > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.head.jpg That's a seven track head, isn't it? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon May 17 22:10:01 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Vintage chips and partz Message-ID: Surplus and pulls from a 'minicomputer repair shop'... "Memory, logic, drivers, baud rate generators, and much more includes 7400 series 2516's 2716's 4116's 2116's com 5016's includes large bag of assorted chips from a minicomputer repair shop )1980's)" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4663&item=3816263323&rd=1 Items are in New York. If they were in Old York, the shippin'd kill ya. This does not apply to Midlands blokes. Cheeerz John From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 17 23:30:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... References: Message-ID: <002001c43c90$dda8f050$7d2c1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... > On Mon, 17 May 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > on Saturday, it rained like a ... Well, a lot. It didn't ease off until > > about 1600hrs, when I finally figured I'd "venture out into the > > wilderness", so most vendors were still wrapped up prolly figuring the > > entire day was a lost cause & went to drown their sorrows. I did see a > > Being that most everytime I hear about this Hamvention it gets rained out, > why don't these folks move this event to a later date, like June? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The one and only time I went to that convention it was muddy also (but not raining when I got there). From lcourtney at mvista.com Mon May 17 23:35:53 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey! Check out page 40 in the June issue of Outside magazine. Coincidence? Lee C. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:23 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures > > > On Mon, 17 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.jpg > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.top.jpg > > Woah, this is WAY different than mine. I'll have to get a photo. Mine is > more of a workstation. > > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.head.jpg > > That's a seven track head, isn't it? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 17 23:54:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Lee Courtney wrote: > Hey! Check out page 40 in the June issue of Outside magazine. Coincidence? Sorry, I'm not a subscriber. Can you describe? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 17 23:53:55 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405180503.BAA26270@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I assume the faild servoid was the thing that was smoking. Yes - or, more precisely, a cigarette in his mouth/hand. > If this had happened to me, I would have escorted that idiot off the > site, and told DEC to send somebody who actually had a clue if they > expected me to pay the service contract! No, I am not joking. In Montreal of the late '80s, that would have been approximately impossible to make stick. I got a little heat even for getting upset over it. (Montreal is a city of contradictions - like some of the most sensible and progressive things I've seen in North America in some respects, like public transit, and yet among the most bass-ackwards in others, like smoking.) >> [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or >> "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), > I don't know why you avoid such terms. They are sadly all too > appropriate. Sometimes. ("How do you tell a field service tech who has a flat tire? He's changing tires to see which one is flat.") And there are stupid Poles, and miserly Jews, and airheaded blondes, and many other such stereotyped groups. But there are also plenty of smart Poles, and generous Jews, and brainy blondes - and competent field service techs. (In each of those four cases, I have personally met examples, and in two of them, known said examples fairly well.) And I don't like to tar the large groups with the brushes appropriate for the small - if nothing else, I belong to too many such large groups myself. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon May 17 22:58:31 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC handbook series - official list? Message-ID: <200405180358.XAA4228314@shell.TheWorld.com> You could also check my list... I have a somewhat large collection of dec handbooks. At one point while working for DEC, I got myself on an automatic distribution list to receive a copy of all new handbooks as they came out... I was on it for a few years before they stopped doing it. Anyway, check out http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_handbooks.html Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From waisun.chia at hp.com Tue May 18 00:25:20 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC handbook series - official list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040517091727.008cbb40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040517091727.008cbb40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40A99E40.7030605@hp.com> Perhaps this one is comprehensive enough? http://www.acms.org.au/digital-handbooks.htm Joe R. wrote: > Fred, > > There's no list that I'm aware of but it would be nice if someone made > up a list and posted it (Hint, Hint!) I have a few and I'll be happy to > make of the ones that I have. > > Joe > > > At 09:20 PM 5/16/04 +0200, you wrote: > >>Hi all! >> >>While attempting to get some organization back into one of my >>study rooms (the one where all my DEC docs and media are), I >>again ran into the problem of organizing my collection of the >>wellknown "Handbook" series of DEC publications. >> >>I have many, but after sorting them out, and taking out the >>dupes (which *are* available for trade, by the way) I noticed >>some volumes were clearly missing in series where they had >>multiple-volume issues. >> >>So, is there (from DEC, or collected by us) some sort of >>"master list" of which handbooks were published by DEC? >> >>This would help me a lot in finding the ones I am missing, >>or think I am missing... >> >>Thankee, >> >>Fred >>-- >>Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >>Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ >>Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >>Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA >> >> > > -- a8888b. d888888b. 8P"YP"Y88 Wai-Sun "Squidster" Chia 8|o||o|88 Technical Consultant (RHCE) 8' .88 Linux/Unix Development 8`._.' Y8. Consulting & Integration d/ `8b. HP Services Malaysia dP . Y8b. d8:' " `::88b d8" 'Y88b :8P ' :888 8a. : _a88P ._/"Yaa_: .| 88P| \ YP" `| 8P `. / \.___.d| .' `--..__)8888P`._.' "Phear the Penguins!" "I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." - Linus Torvalds - From esharpe at uswest.net Tue May 18 00:49:29 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures References: Message-ID: <003701c43c9b$e2ae7ce0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> the one I am used to is a workstation as well. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:22 PM Subject: Re: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures > On Mon, 17 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.jpg > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.top.jpg > > Woah, this is WAY different than mine. I'll have to get a photo. Mine is > more of a workstation. > > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/WU.head.jpg > > That's a seven track head, isn't it? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 18 01:09:48 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Update on Trip, opinions on purchases... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517175220.00aed480@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517175220.00aed480@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <40A9A8AC.2010502@mdrconsult.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > As a lead-in to another thread, tho, I did pick up a soldering station & > desoldering gun. For $100 I got a Hakko 939 soldering station w/1 tip > (it's fine for medium work, but for some fine circuitry I'd want a finer > tip), photocopied manual, and key (yes, you need a small "punch-card" > key to change the temperature & the configuration... each tip has a > "temperature coefficient" that you key into the station, to keep an > exact temperature, AFAICT)... > > Anyone else have any experience with this brand/model of soldering > station? The cheapest I'd found on ePay (tho I didn't search completed > auctions yet) was $150, and it looks like they still make 'em for about > $400, so I think I did OK... not shabby at all. I like the heck out of mine, although I just got it a couple of months ago, and haven't done any really fine work with it. The $150 ebay model was probably the folk in Austin TX where I got mine. They get refurbs pretty regularly, and give a 90-day guarantee. Tips are damned expensive because the element is in the tip, but that improves the balance quite a bit, as far as I'm concerned. It's also supposed to improve the temperature control, but I can't tell about that yet. Doc From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue May 18 08:02:41 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, It is ad for the Mini-Cooper automobile. Starting at the left is a picture of the MDS tape system (or similar - just a single tape reel) with clunky keyboard that evolves into a big clunky PC that evolves into a luggable that evolves into a laptop. I looked but couldn't find a copy on the miniusa.com web site. It was interesting to see a a key-to-tape system 1) actually used in a print ad, and 2) to appear during the discussion on ClassicCmp. I'll try and scan tomorrow. Cheers, Lee Courtney MontaVista Software 1237 East Arques Avenue Sunnyvale, California 94085 (408) 328-9238 voice (408) 328-9204 fax "Powering the Embedded Revolution" > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:54 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures > > > On Mon, 17 May 2004, Lee Courtney wrote: > > > Hey! Check out page 40 in the June issue of Outside magazine. > Coincidence? > > Sorry, I'm not a subscriber. > > Can you describe? > > :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 18 08:45:01 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405171010.GAA11965@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16554.4957.571991.210047@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or >> "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), but in this case Tony> I don't know why you avoid such terms. They are sadly all too Tony> appropriate. Like many stereotypes, they have some basis in reality. Not necessarily a large basis, though. I remember our first PDP11 field service tech (circa 1973), a gentleman named Jim Newport. His skills were amazing. As was usual in those days, he'd repair broken electronics by replacing the offending IC. But that's not all... We had an RC64 drive that was acting up. He hadn't ever worked on one but he volunteered to give it a try. Spread out the schematics, poked around, diagnosed the problem as a bad motor bearing. Rather than hit us for a new motor from DEC (the system wasn't under contract) he took it to Appleton Electric Motor company, where they replaced the bearing, and it was good as new. Then we had an RF64 drive that had a "clock track error". No kidding -- the platter wasn't spinning. He took it apart, discovered that a head had crashed and melted, sticking to the platter. So he ordered a pile of parts (this one *was* under contract). Replaced all the heads, aligned them, replaced the platter, reformatted the drive, and put it all back together. Worked like a champ ever since. So remember there are techs like that out there, just as there are clueless ones. paul From wacarder at usit.net Tue May 18 09:19:57 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405171010.GAA11965@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16554.4957.571991.210047@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000c01c43ce3$334af650$99100f14@mcothran1> Where are guys like this now? Do any of them participate in "classic computer" activities, or have they moved on to other things, such as fishing or woodworking? The hobbyists sure could use guys like this from time to time, I would think. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:45 AM Subject: Re: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: > > >> [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or > >> "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), but in this case > > Tony> I don't know why you avoid such terms. They are sadly all too > Tony> appropriate. > > Like many stereotypes, they have some basis in reality. Not > necessarily a large basis, though. > > I remember our first PDP11 field service tech (circa 1973), a > gentleman named Jim Newport. His skills were amazing. > > As was usual in those days, he'd repair broken electronics by > replacing the offending IC. But that's not all... > > We had an RC64 drive that was acting up. He hadn't ever worked on one > but he volunteered to give it a try. Spread out the schematics, > poked around, diagnosed the problem as a bad motor bearing. Rather > than hit us for a new motor from DEC (the system wasn't under > contract) he took it to Appleton Electric Motor company, where they > replaced the bearing, and it was good as new. > > Then we had an RF64 drive that had a "clock track error". No kidding > -- the platter wasn't spinning. He took it apart, discovered that a > head had crashed and melted, sticking to the platter. So he ordered a > pile of parts (this one *was* under contract). Replaced all the > heads, aligned them, replaced the platter, reformatted the drive, and > put it all back together. Worked like a champ ever since. > > So remember there are techs like that out there, just as there are > clueless ones. > > paul > From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 18 09:25:39 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405171010.GAA11965@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16554.4957.571991.210047@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <000c01c43ce3$334af650$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16554.7395.585437.370113@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Where are guys like this now? Do any of them participate in Ashley> "classic computer" activities, or have they moved on to other Ashley> things, such as fishing or woodworking? The hobbyists sure Ashley> could use guys like this from time to time, I would think. >> ... >> I remember our first PDP11 field service tech (circa 1973), a >> gentleman named Jim Newport. His skills were amazing. I suspect Jim is retired now ... as would be most of his generation. Later on, field service was more of a boardswap exercise, which means you're less likely to see this level of skill. Unfortunately... paul From wacarder at usit.net Tue May 18 09:35:41 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: <200405171010.GAA11965@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><16554.4957.571991.210047@gargle.gargle.HOWL><000c01c43ce3$334af650$99100f14@mcothran1> <16554.7395.585437.370113@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000601c43ce5$65ef5ea0$99100f14@mcothran1> I always admired and respected the true debuggers. I've recently acquired (and am in the process of acquiring more) 1970s vintage DEC equipment (PDP-11s, RK05 drives, VT52 teminals, etc). As is to be expected, some things are showing their age and may need the level of debugging that you have described in order to determine and correct their problems. I am going to be learning a lot! Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:25 AM Subject: Re: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted > >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > Ashley> Where are guys like this now? Do any of them participate in > Ashley> "classic computer" activities, or have they moved on to other > Ashley> things, such as fishing or woodworking? The hobbyists sure > Ashley> could use guys like this from time to time, I would think. > > >> ... > >> I remember our first PDP11 field service tech (circa 1973), a > >> gentleman named Jim Newport. His skills were amazing. > > I suspect Jim is retired now ... as would be most of his generation. > > Later on, field service was more of a boardswap exercise, which means > you're less likely to see this level of skill. Unfortunately... > > paul > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 18 09:32:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Lee Courtney wrote: > It is ad for the Mini-Cooper automobile. Starting at the left is a picture > of the MDS tape system (or similar - just a single tape reel) with clunky > keyboard that evolves into a big clunky PC that evolves into a luggable that > evolves into a laptop. I looked but couldn't find a copy on the miniusa.com > web site. > > It was interesting to see a a key-to-tape system 1) actually used in a print > ad, and 2) to appear during the discussion on ClassicCmp. I'll try and scan > tomorrow. Oh, it came out! :) Those machines are actually from my collection shot in my warehouse :) They were supposed to send me a copy of the copy when it came out. I'll have to bug them. Thanks for letting me know about it ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wacarder at usit.net Tue May 18 09:39:09 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 References: <001601c43c20$62701870$a0340f14@mcothran1><004c01c43c23$a8849680$0200a8c0@old3><16553.2585.675957.217165@gargle.gargle.HOWL><003b01c43c41$f0585c80$99100f14@mcothran1> <16553.4376.428369.815319@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001301c43ce5$e17e88c0$99100f14@mcothran1> In reading the factual portion of this RSTS birthday page, I noticed a reference to a "History of RSTS" back in the mid-1980s. Does anyone have a copy of this or know what this reference contains? If such a thing exists, does anyone know where a copy can be obtained? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Re: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 > >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > Ashley> Paul, you probably know the answer to this. I've seen this > Ashley> site before and wondered where the line is that separates > Ashley> fact from fiction. Somewhere around 1990, obviously, but the > Ashley> line has been craftily blurred by the author of this 100th > Ashley> birthday thing. I have done studied my DEC / RSTS / PDP-11 > Ashley> history enough to pick out anything that is fictitious prior > Ashley> to stuff in the early 90s. Is everything up to 1990 fact? > > >>> http://www.silverware.co.uk/rsts_80th_birthday.htm > > As far I can tell, yes, pretty much. That fits, because it was > written for the 20th birthday bash. > > There may be some historical errors. For example, I don't know if > RSTS has any relationship to IOX. I rather doubt it (but I've never > seen the IOX sources, and I only barely glanced at the docs around 30 > years ago...) The cultural heritage is TSS-8, from what I've heard, > though I can't confirm that from personal knowledge either. > > The change from .CIL to .SIL happened with RSTS V5B... > > TECO did appear -- as a real RTS, not as two Basic programs -- in > V5A... > > Some of the fantasy items have a connection to reality: > - There wasn't a Unix RTS, but Bob Fraser ported csh to RSTS. > - Basic for RT11 supported line numbers up to 65532. > - Directory and data cache can be displayed with SDA. > > paul > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 18 09:37:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16554.7395.585437.370113@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > Ashley> Where are guys like this now? Do any of them participate in > Ashley> "classic computer" activities, or have they moved on to other > Ashley> things, such as fishing or woodworking? The hobbyists sure > Ashley> could use guys like this from time to time, I would think. > > >> ... > >> I remember our first PDP11 field service tech (circa 1973), a > >> gentleman named Jim Newport. His skills were amazing. > > I suspect Jim is retired now ... as would be most of his generation. > > Later on, field service was more of a boardswap exercise, which means > you're less likely to see this level of skill. Unfortunately... And it must also be remembered that these folks did this when it was economically feasible to spend a day or two tracking down and repairing a problem. Business is time, and time is money, so as technology evolved and came down in price, it became more practical to just swap boards (both for the user and the supplier). Sometimes we lose a sense of the more pragmatic aspects of tech work. If your business is halted because a computer system is down, would you rather your tech take a few hours or a day or two to track down and fix a problem, or would you rather they swap a few boards in an hour or so until they find the problem? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Tue May 18 09:52:01 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DECmate II Message-ID: Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly because I never did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8 (Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like to test the thing out before I offer it to anyone. 1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it is, I don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal. 2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are the specifics? This machine is in decent condition, with an RX50 and a hard disk of some sort. I have no manuals. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 18 09:58:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DECmate II References: Message-ID: <16554.9384.843814.814131@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Donzelli writes: William> Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly William> because I never did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the William> micro version of the PDP-8 (Intersil 6120 based, I think). A William> couple of questions, as I would like to test the thing out William> before I offer it to anyone. William> 1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? William> Whatever it is, I don't have it so I am hoping the box William> supports a dumb terminal. Should just be plain old TV-compatible monochrome video. Does it have a 15-pin connector for the video? If so, it may want a VR201 tube, the same used with the Pro. That's still only plain old video but the connector also carries power and keyboard input. The pinouts would be in the Pro tech manual, which is online at bitsavers. paul From aw288 at osfn.org Tue May 18 09:59:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Sometimes we lose a sense of the more pragmatic aspects of tech work. If > your business is halted because a computer system is down, would you > rather your tech take a few hours or a day or two to track down and fix a > problem, or would you rather they swap a few boards in an hour or so until > they find the problem? Hour? Don't be so generous. At ANS you would be in serious hot water for any maintenance involving an outage that lasted more than about a minute, scheduled or not. At one point I was told how much AOL lost per minute per down core router, and it was pretty impressive. This was five years ago. I am sure it is even "worse" now. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue May 18 10:02:19 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: <16554.9384.843814.814131@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > Does it have a 15-pin connector for the video? Yes. > If so, it may want a > VR201 tube, the same used with the Pro. That's still only plain old > video but the connector also carries power and keyboard input. The > pinouts would be in the Pro tech manual, which is online at bitsavers. OK, thanks. I don't have either the VR or the keyboard, so I am still hoping for dumb terminal support. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue May 18 10:30:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DECmate II References: <16554.9384.843814.814131@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16554.11305.759806.467705@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Donzelli writes: >> Does it have a 15-pin connector for the video? William> Yes. >> If so, it may want a VR201 tube, the same used with the Pro. >> That's still only plain old video but the connector also carries >> power and keyboard input. The pinouts would be in the Pro tech >> manual, which is online at bitsavers. William> OK, thanks. I don't have either the VR or the keyboard, so I William> am still hoping for dumb terminal support. In the Pro technical manual you'll find where the video appears, so plug that into a plain old TV monitor that accepts composite video. (You could plug it into the yellow jack on your TV or VCR, that's composite video. It's US spec video, I believe, so that wouldn't work in Europe...) The keyboard would be an LK201; you could make a patch cord for it. Without an LK201 things would get tricky; it's certainly possible to emulate that keyboard but it doesn't look much like anything else. (Then again, it speaks 4800 baud async protocol, so the signaling is easy, and the protocol is documented.) paul From aek at spies.com Tue May 18 10:35:33 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures Message-ID: <200405181535.i4IFZXkH025374@spies.com> There are a bunch of key to tape system descriptions in: www.bitsavers.org/pdf/mohawk/KeyingMagtapeForComputers_1968.pdf I'm guessing what William has is part of a magnetic tape data transmission system. From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 18 10:41:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: MDS 7 track tape drive pictures In-Reply-To: <200405181535.i4IFZXkH025374@spies.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > There are a bunch of key to tape system descriptions in: > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/mohawk/KeyingMagtapeForComputers_1968.pdf > > I'm guessing what William has is part of a magnetic tape data transmission > system. Mine is a model 6401, but it looks just like the 1101 on page 1 (page 8 of the PDF). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rcini at optonline.net Tue May 18 12:23:22 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (rcini@optonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: AIM65 test program? Message-ID: Hello, all: While browsing an early-1980 issue of Compute magazine, I saw a blurb for Rockwell offering copies of the manufacturing test program for the AIM 65 computer. The blurb references a test manual (#EA74-M800) and a test program listing (#EA74-J100). It also indicates that on the manufacturing line, two EPROMs with the test program are installed in the BASIC ROM slots. Does anyone have either manual or the ROMs in question? Thanks. Rich From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 18 12:16:24 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted" (May 18, 7:37) References: Message-ID: <10405181816.ZM11581@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 18, 7:37, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > And it must also be remembered that these folks did this when it was > economically feasible to spend a day or two tracking down and repairing a > problem. Business is time, and time is money, so as technology evolved > and came down in price, it became more practical to just swap boards (both > for the user and the supplier). > > Sometimes we lose a sense of the more pragmatic aspects of tech work. If > your business is halted because a computer system is down, would you > rather your tech take a few hours or a day or two to track down and fix a > problem, or would you rather they swap a few boards in an hour or so until > they find the problem? It's also worth pointing out that by the '80s, some of the boards required diagnostics and equipment that it wasn't practical for every field service guy to carry. A lot of companies did as the one I worked for: field service engineers were trained (quite carefully) to pin a problem down to a board, replace that, and send the faulty one to their central workshop (ours was in Stoke) where it would be repaired and tested. There's nothing wrong with swapping a board providing you know which to swap (implying "why", at some level) and the faulty one gets fixed (assuming it's economic). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From adamg at pobox.com Tue May 18 07:37:55 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Sparc 10 PSU connector pinout anyone? Message-ID: <20040518123754.GA86845@silme.pair.com> Google for 800-6358-11 to find the the SPARCstation-10 service manual. It is a drool-proof manual but there is a pinout buried somewhere in the middle. -- Adam From ken.rauhala at nokia.com Tue May 18 14:53:54 2004 From: ken.rauhala at nokia.com (ken.rauhala@nokia.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: RSTS/E and PDP 11/23 Message-ID: Hi, I use to run this combo with RL02 drives, it should fit on one RL01 drive but not much free space left over. This was in 1981-1982, someone else setup the hardware so I don't remember much about that, I was working on the software. I was surprised that so much of the operating system was implemented in BASIC :-) Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue May 18 16:48:45 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: wtb: Apple //C power supply Message-ID: <22E4EBC9-A915-11D8-9085-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Want an apple IIC power supply $10.00 plus shipping to 95127. Contact: jh1960@pacbell.net From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 18 17:19:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040518221933.GA23026@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 10:52:01AM -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly because I never > did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8 > (Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like to > test the thing out before I offer it to anyone. > > 1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it is, I > don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal. The video port connects to a DEC VR201 as used with Rainbows, Pro 3xx machines, etc. The cable carries +12VDC to power the monitor, NTSC composite video, and the LK201 keyboard signals from the jack in the back of the monitor down the CPU. You could make up your own DA-15 cable with a 4-pin jack (telephone-handset type, not RJ-11) for an LK201 keyboard, and an RCA video out for a standard monochrome monitor of the style used with Apple IIs, etc, or you could try to locate a VR201. > 2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are > the specifics? I have never tried it. I have no idea if it will work. I don't have enough VR201s to go around to all of my DEC boxes of the era, but I do have enough for one of each type at a time, so it's never been an issue for me. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-May-2004 22:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -43.4 F (-41.9 C) Windchill -109.3 F (-78.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 21.9 kts Grid 026 Barometer 684.8 mb (10444. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue May 18 17:41:24 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC ROM and RAM boards Message-ID: Remembered to bring the details ... The ROM board is marked .. "5419803 5019802-01 A1" and "ROM DWT CARD" .. and holds 14 27C010 1Mb EPROMs. The back has a label saying "VT1000 2.2" I can use these EPROMs so if no one needs them or the contents they'll be recycled next week. The RAM card is marked .. "5019806" and "5419807" .. and has one 1MB SIMM marked .. "5419805" .. I have no use for this at all. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue May 18 16:49:54 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Fwd: wtb: Apple //C power supply Message-ID: <4BEC12DA-A915-11D8-9085-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Begin forwarded message: > From: Ron Hudson > Date: May 18, 2004 2:48:45 PM PDT > To: Classic Computers > Subject: wtb: Apple //C power supply > > > Want an apple IIC power supply $10.00 plus shipping > to 95127. > > Contact: jh1960@pacbell.net > > P.S. Please put "Apple Power Supply in Subject" Thanks. From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue May 18 18:36:39 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: References: <16554.7395.585437.370113@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040518183639.138236f3.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 18 May 2004 07:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > > > >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > > > Ashley> Where are guys like this now? Do any of them participate > > in Ashley> "classic computer" activities, or have they moved on to > > other Ashley> things, such as fishing or woodworking? The > > hobbyists sure Ashley> could use guys like this from time to time, > > I would think. > > > > >> ... > > >> I remember our first PDP11 field service tech (circa 1973), a > > >> gentleman named Jim Newport. His skills were amazing. > > > > I suspect Jim is retired now ... as would be most of his generation. > > > > Later on, field service was more of a boardswap exercise, which > > means you're less likely to see this level of skill. > > Unfortunately... > > And it must also be remembered that these folks did this when it was > economically feasible to spend a day or two tracking down and > repairing a problem. Business is time, and time is money, so as > technology evolved and came down in price, it became more practical to > just swap boards (both for the user and the supplier). > > Sometimes we lose a sense of the more pragmatic aspects of tech work. > If your business is halted because a computer system is down, would > you rather your tech take a few hours or a day or two to track down > and fix a problem, or would you rather they swap a few boards in an > hour or so until they find the problem? > It is also worth noting that often times the 'real' tech people aren't deployed in the field. I've done component level troubleshooting work in the past at the shops where the pulled cards are shipped. It often isn't efficient for the field staff to do that sort of troubleshooting. Repair and testing of the pulled boards DOES happen, in facilities where the equipment, expertise, and documents are more complete. Sadly, this isn't always the case anymore, but generally up until the recent past it has been. Certainly in the case of higher-quality equipment from the likes of DEC, IBM, etc., but there's a lot of throw-away junk getting deployed these days. From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue May 18 18:43:35 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:39 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra 1 questions In-Reply-To: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1084789031.9276.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040518184335.0a77df04.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:17:11 +0000 Jules Richardson wrote: > > See my other post about the Ultra 1 I found. (I think it's a couple of > years too new to be on-topic - sorry!) > > I put the pair of memory sticks in there which I got in the same day > and tried powering the machine up using a terminal as the console. > Amazingly, it's alive! > > At the moment it's set to boot from the network - any idea how I can > interrupt that and get into the boot monitor in order to switch that > off? I think there's some key combination to do it from a keyboard, > but of course I don't have one handy at the moment - just the console. > > There's a clear perspex bracket above the CPU for holding a fan, but > no fan. As this machine had been stripped before I got it, I don't > know if it should have one and someone had taken it out. The CPU has a > large finned heatsink on it - on the web I saw a vague report that Sun > may have stopped putting fans in the machines on later ones and just > used a larger heatsink. Any ideas? > > Finally, any clue as to whether the Apple SCSI CDROM I got will work > in the Ultra? It's a 1993 vintage drive, an "AppleCD 300 Plus". If > not, I do have a SCSI drive that'll do both 512 and 2048 block sizes, > but it's in a running machine at the moment... > I have had good luck booting Ultra 1 boxes with that exact CD-ROM drive. Last summer I had a group of three Ultra 1 boxed I'd gotten at auction that had no CD Drives, and a pile of PowerMac 7200s with that drive in them. It was a no-brainer to scrap the Macs and put a CD in the Sun boxes. I've booted Solaris and NetBSD with those drives, using 'boot cdrom' from the OB prompt. I have heaps of those Apple drives, if anybody ones one or a few for the cost of shipping just write. As to why the Ultra 1 was 'thrown out': there seem to be a scad of U1 boxes being surplused these days. Mine I got at auction for $12.50 each, and possibly would have gotten them cheaper, but didn't want to play 'chicken' with the auctioneers, who sometimes have a tendency if they think you're 'camping' to end the 'select item from the pile' bidding and sell the whole lot, sadly too often to a PC-only drone who ends up pitching or scrapping anything that won't run Windoze. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 18:02:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <200405180503.BAA26270@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 18, 4 00:53:55 am Message-ID: > > > I assume the faild servoid was the thing that was smoking. > > Yes - or, more precisely, a cigarette in his mouth/hand. I think it's the fact that he was burning something near a dismantled disk drive that was the problem, not whether he was deliberately inhaling the fumes :-) > > > If this had happened to me, I would have escorted that idiot off the > > site, and told DEC to send somebody who actually had a clue if they > > expected me to pay the service contract! No, I am not joking. > > In Montreal of the late '80s, that would have been approximately > impossible to make stick. I got a little heat even for getting upset Well, I suspect you could argue that the person clearly didn't have a clue about the operation of hard disk drives (I assume _you've_ seen that picture in the DEC manuals showing the head flying height in comparison to a smoke particle, human hair, etc), and that therefore DEC were not providing the service they were being paid for. > > >> [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or > >> "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), > > I don't know why you avoid such terms. They are sadly all too > > appropriate. > > Sometimes. ("How do you tell a field service tech who has a flat tire? > He's changing tires to see which one is flat.") How do you spot the faild servoid who had run out of petrol (gas)? He's the oen swapping out the tyres to find out which one is flat. What does he do if he can't find the flat tyre? He replaces the alternator. > > And there are stupid Poles, and miserly Jews, and airheaded blondes, > and many other such stereotyped groups. But there are also plenty of > smart Poles, and generous Jews, and brainy blondes - and competent > field service techs. (In each of those four cases, I have personally Hmm.. I have no arguments with the first 3 groups. But the whole attitude of field service, at least the ones I've come into contact with, seems to prevent logical thought. And that results in random parts being swapped, and the problem still not being cured. I will say it again. You will _NOT_ fix a computer by swapping parts until the problem goes away. It is _ESSENTIAL_ to make measurements first. Actually, that applies to fixing just about anything. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 18:23:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <16554.4957.571991.210047@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 18, 4 09:45:01 am Message-ID: > > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: > > >> [%] I don't usually like to use phrases like "field circus" (or > >> "salesdroid" or similar denigratory mutations), but in this case > > Tony> I don't know why you avoid such terms. They are sadly all too > Tony> appropriate. > > Like many stereotypes, they have some basis in reality. Not > necessarily a large basis, though. I suspect this may depend on the era of field servoids you came across. I came across the ones at the end of the 80's, and the few I saw were pretty clueless. > We had an RC64 drive that was acting up. He hadn't ever worked on one > but he volunteered to give it a try. Spread out the schematics, > poked around, diagnosed the problem as a bad motor bearing. Rather > than hit us for a new motor from DEC (the system wasn't under > contract) he took it to Appleton Electric Motor company, where they > replaced the bearing, and it was good as new. A somewhat counter-example. At one place I worked, the VAXen were on a service contract, but the older peripherals, like the VT100s, VT220s and LA36s were not. Anyway, we had an LA36 that was malfunctioning, blew its carriage motor fuse, etc. Anyway, I decided to repair this one morning, when coincidentally the failed servoid was around for some reason. I got out the prints -- the failed servoid was amazed that (a) I had them and (b) I could understnad them. Didn't take long to trace the real problem. A sheered key on the carriage motor pulley. This meant the motor didn't stop when the carriage hit the side frame, but carried on turning slowly. The motor had then overheated, the insulation had burnt off the windings, the currnet had gone even higher, and so on. Failed servoid was equally amazed that I could figure this out. OF course there was only one solution, to rewind the motor. Took it apart, drew a diagram of the connections to the commutator, unwould the old wire, wound on some new with a friend helping me. Then put it all back together. Worked fine for a few more years. That failed servoid was still trying to sort out whatever problem he had come for when I had that LA36 cased up and running. Sometime I will have to tell you of the story of ARD (aged 10) .vs. the TV rental company servoid. My parents have been regretting this ever since... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 18:26:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <000601c43ce5$65ef5ea0$99100f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at May 18, 4 10:35:41 am Message-ID: > > I always admired and respected the true debuggers. I've recently Me too... One day I might get good enough to become one. I would love to be able to make some measurements, think about them, and then replace the one faulty component without any more fuss. Oh well, still a lot to learn. > acquired (and am in the process of acquiring more) 1970s vintage > DEC equipment (PDP-11s, RK05 drives, VT52 teminals, etc). As > is to be expected, some things are showing their age and may need the > level of debugging that you have described in order to determine and > correct their problems. I am going to be learning a lot! All I can say is 'been there, done that', and I am _still_ learning a lot. The day I stop learning is the day I am '6 feet under' :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 18:29:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 18, 4 07:37:49 am Message-ID: > And it must also be remembered that these folks did this when it was > economically feasible to spend a day or two tracking down and repairing a > problem. Business is time, and time is money, so as technology evolved > and came down in price, it became more practical to just swap boards (both > for the user and the supplier). The problem is that all too often, board swapping does _not_ cure the problem, or it introduces more problems, or... I have lost count of the number of problems I've had to sort out that were made worse by somebody (not necessarily a field servoid, it has to be said) replacing all sorts of random parts. > > Sometimes we lose a sense of the more pragmatic aspects of tech work. If > your business is halted because a computer system is down, would you > rather your tech take a few hours or a day or two to track down and fix a > problem, or would you rather they swap a few boards in an hour or so until > they find the problem? Well, in my experience it's more a case of 'You'll be down for a day, and then the machine will run for 5 years without problems' .vs. 'We'll be up in an hour, but you'll have all sorts of problems afterwards, and you'll probably keep on having to have another hour's fiddling every other week or so'. Of course they don't tell you that last bit ;-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 18:32:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at May 18, 4 10:52:01 am Message-ID: > > Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly because I never > did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8 > (Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like to > test the thing out before I offer it to anyone. > > 1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it is, I The DA15 video connector on the DECmate II (and Rainbow, Pro 3xx series) carries the signals for an LK201 keyboard (the one used with the VT220, etc terminal), a 12V power output to run a mono monitor, and composite video. (RS170 -- I think that's the right standard -- US TV anyway). The Pro and 'bow support a colour video card (I have no idea if the DECmate does), and then you also get RGB (sync-on-green) video on this connector. I can find a pinout if you're interested. > don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal. > > 2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are > the specifics? AFAIK you can't use a dumb terminal on a DECmate. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 18:39:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <10405181816.ZM11581@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 18, 4 06:16:24 pm Message-ID: > It's also worth pointing out that by the '80s, some of the boards > required diagnostics and equipment that it wasn't practical for every Hmm... I suspect I could find most common faults, and fix them, with the tools I take to HPCC meetings. This is a fairly small toolkit (contents : scrrewdrivers from 0.8mm to 8mm, nutdrivers, allen keys, torx keys, tempertature controlled soldering iron, solder sucker, solder wick, pliers, strippers, cutters, pin vice, spanners (AF, BA, metric) Leatherman tool, logicdart, DMM) > field service guy to carry. A lot of companies did as the one I worked > for: field service engineers were trained (quite carefully) to pin a That word 'trained' always worries me. You can't train somebody to do faultfinding in my experience (just as you can't train people to be good electronic designers, or musical composers, or...). Yes, there are things you have to know, but beyond that, you have to have experience, and really understand what's going on. This is _not_ what you get from the service training course from what I've read. > problem down to a board, replace that, and send the faulty one to their > central workshop (ours was in Stoke) where it would be repaired and > tested. There's nothing wrong with swapping a board providing you know > which to swap (implying "why", at some level) and the faulty one gets Problem with that is that to really _know_ which module to swap you have to have really found the fault, almost to component level. And as we all know, it's finding the fault that takes the time. Soldering in a replacement chip -- even an SMD one -- takes only a few minutes at most. > fixed (assuming it's economic). -tony From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Tue May 18 19:38:55 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of interest to anybody or should I tell him to just scrap them? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue May 18 20:11:34 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: They are a classic, and there should be reasonable interest in them (although alas not much cash value). Where are you located? I would be interested in 1 or 2 for my collection. David. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Damien Cymbal >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:39 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals >>> >>> My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no >>> need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of >>> interest to anybody or should I tell him to just scrap them? From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 18 20:07:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Well, in my experience it's more a case of 'You'll be down for a day, and > then the machine will run for 5 years without problems' .vs. 'We'll be up > in an hour, but you'll have all sorts of problems afterwards, and you'll > probably keep on having to have another hour's fiddling every other week > or so'. Of course they don't tell you that last bit ;-) Tony, in some cases, a business being down a whole day means that business goes under completely. It's not as cut and dry in the "real world". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 18 20:08:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no need for. I'm > not familiar with them, would they be of interest to anybody or should I > tell him to just scrap them? Let the frenzy commence! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue May 18 20:12:47 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040519011247.GA30207@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 12:32:54AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > The DA15 video connector on the DECmate II (and Rainbow, Pro 3xx series) > carries the signals for an LK201 keyboard (the one used with the VT220, > etc terminal), a 12V power output to run a mono monitor, and composite > video. (RS170 -- I think that's the right standard -- US TV anyway). Yes... RS-170. > The Pro and 'bow support a colour video card (I have no idea if the DECmate > does), and then you also get RGB (sync-on-green) video on this connector. Not the DECmate - mono only. What _I'd_ like to have in my DECmate-II is the RX02 interface. BTW, if your hard drive craps out, it's possible with "ordinary" DECmate utility floppies (i.e., no "Field Service Kit" required) to format up a bog-standard ST-225 and throw it in there. I did it about ten years ago, and filled mine up with RX50s I copied from Charlie Lasner. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-May-2004 01:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.3 F (-43.5 C) Windchill -121.6 F (-85.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 20.8 kts Grid 020 Barometer 684.1 mb (10472. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue May 18 20:24:21 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On a side note...at one time they had to be connected to "something".... Wondering what the something was, and if he still has it / wants it?????? >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Damien Cymbal >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:39 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals >>> >>> My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no >>> need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of >>> interest to anybody or should I tell him to just scrap them? From richlist at sias.us Tue May 18 20:41:39 2004 From: richlist at sias.us (Rich Sias) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Would you be interested in selling your book? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am trying to move a Netware v2.2 system to something newer and need a manual of commands. Does anyone have one ? I figure if the last one for sale on the newsgroups was 1998 that I might find one here sooner. Rich Sias From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue May 18 16:52:09 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Info "loss" on early computer controlled carb vehicles. In-Reply-To: <20040518123754.GA86845@silme.pair.com> Message-ID: <20040519014812.WSCG11251.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Fixing on my 1987 caravan carb 2.2L and found very little info (1) on google and even almost nothing from couple local chrysler dealers. Been on and off digging for info on these Chrysler computer modules for 2.2L 4 cyl carb engines that was used on many vehicles from 1981 to mid 1987. After that, 2.2 and 2.5 got TBI. But there was eariler 2.2 with turbo that used computer but completely another topic for another time and others has covered this in detail. Goes like this: What spark control computer (module) especially for van and truck were set up by part number. Remember keep in mind far as I can gather, K cars and most sedans etc got seperate computer modules (Computer inside interior of vehicle and power module in the engine bay.) Dakota did get 2.2 carb also along with older caravans of this period. What particular computer is used with what particular emissions system (so far three types: Calif, Federal and Canadian, some didn't get air pump for catylast converter, some either got non-feedback carbs some got feedback carb (uses a O2 sensor). Which means more different computers too. And by year. Etc. Remember that computer & carb era in late 1980's is becoming of age for "restorations" or saving that info before this completely disappears into mists of time. My 'van 1987 which means is 17 years, soon 18 years which is really LONG time ago. I see a parallel to your people's researches into classic computers with very little info but yet for some reason are successful. What's the trick to that efforts to dig the last 95% that I already found on other 5%? Typically would be found in the service manuals but this is not true because I did have the manuals for my 'van, again little info. Cheers, Wizard (1) Found many good info websites but the last 95% isn't there. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue May 18 20:48:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: <20040518221933.GA23026@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > You could make up your own DA-15 cable with a 4-pin jack (telephone-handset > type, not RJ-11) for an LK201 keyboard, and an RCA video out for a > standard monochrome monitor of the style used with Apple IIs, etc, > or you could try to locate a VR201. I could, but this is a "minimal effort" project. I just want to push this thing out the door, with the future buyer having some sort of clue as of condition. Still, cramming some wires in the connector and feeding that to a mono tube should be easy enough. Thanks to all with the info, so far! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue May 18 20:52:11 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: Message-ID: <00c101c43d43$e8299940$63406b43@66067007> I would like to purchase one, were are you located? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:38 PM Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of interest to anybody or should I tell him to just scrap them? From tponsford at theriver.com Tue May 18 18:53:40 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: another good auction auction AND free Sun OS manuals. Message-ID: <40AAA204.4010409@theriver.com> Hi All, Another good haul at the auction today: one HP J2240 (dual cpu) and a J210XC. another cypher 9-track and 4 Boxes of still-in-the-wrapper sun os manuals: (2) 4.0 System Admin Manuals Minibox 825-1048-10 (these are in the original mini-box. still shrinkwrapped) Circa 1988 contents: Sun OS 4.0 Change Notes Installing GunOS System and Network admin Security Features Guide Prom Users manual Sun System Diagnostics Manual Also two boxes: Sun Reference Manuals including Assembly Language Reference for Sun-2 and Sun-3 Sun Programmers Manuals The last two boxes include some fairly thick reference Manuals most still shrinkwrapped I's like to give the Sun Manuals free to a good home, preferably to someone who collects Sun OS stuff or who make the info in these manuals available over the web, copyrights, of course, maintained. If not than anyone who needs them. If multiple requests: first come first served, or make me an offer I can't refuse. You pay shipping usps media mail. Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From dan at ekoan.com Tue May 18 22:14:04 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Manual for HP 82928A System Monitor? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040518231115.05525eb0@enigma> Hello, This weekend I picked up a Hewlett-Packard 82928A System Monitor, which is a plug-in module for the HP 85 desktop computer. I have the box, the cartridge and a two-page "Installation Sheet", but no manual. Does anyone have a manual for this module? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Tue May 18 22:17:46 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: Message-ID: Wow, My inbox overfloweth..... I've gotten alot of responses so rather than reply individually, I'll post what I know here: 1) They are currently located in Tewksbury, MA USA (about 30 mins North of Boston) 2) I am not sure of the current condition. I believe at one time they were all pulled as working units out of a library and have been in storage for a couple years. I will try and get more details. 3) I don't think my dad has too much time for packaging/shipping, so I think he was looking for somebody to pickup locally. If there is someone local on the list that would want to pickup and disperse that would be cool. 4) The concensus seems to be that these aren't "worth much" (whatever "much" is). I would imagine that my dad is trying to just free space and would like a fair price. I'm sure there are plenty of people here with an opinion of what fair is, so have at it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:38 PM Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of interest to anybody or should I tell him to just scrap them? From vax3900 at yahoo.com Tue May 18 22:05:02 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Nonvolatile RAM on single board computers Message-ID: <20040519030502.32249.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> I have a SBC with nonvolatile RAM on it. There are DRAM and EPROM too. I guess the nonvolatile RAM might be used to hold some important parameters while EPROM is used to hold program. Since nonvolatile RAM has limited life, I wonder how you guys deal with nonvolatile RAM in your old computers. Reading out the content with a EPROM programmer is a solution that jumps into my mind. "Burn" a new nonvolatile RAM and wait for another 10 years? It seems a boring work... vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 18 22:24:28 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: Message-ID: <40AAD36C.4010605@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > All I can say is 'been there, done that', and I am _still_ learning a > lot. The day I stop learning is the day I am '6 feet under' :-) Nope; then you find out about dirt and worms. :) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 23:21:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: <40AAD36C.4010605@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at May 18, 4 09:24:28 pm Message-ID: > > All I can say is 'been there, done that', and I am _still_ learning a > > lot. The day I stop learning is the day I am '6 feet under' :-) > > Nope; then you find out about dirt and worms. :) Yes, but (hopefully, given where I am), I'll be in no state to process that information... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 23:24:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at May 18, 4 09:48:53 pm Message-ID: > Still, cramming some wires in the connector and feeding that to a mono > tube should be easy enough. > > Thanks to all with the info, so far! Here's the info on my Rainbow monitor cable/adapter (not a DEC product!). The DECmate should be much the same -- take the DA15S I've shown and wire the 'mono' and 'mono gnd' pins to a suitahle composite monitor. If you have an LK201, then wire up that connector too. Ignore the colour signals, etc. -tony A universal DEC Rainbow video cable ----------------------------------- This cable allows almost all possible monitor combinations to be used with the Rainbow (see below). Connections : ------------- Rainbow end (DA15-S) 1 >----------+---------+-- Blue Gnd 9 >-------O---------O-- Blue 2 >----------+---------+-- Green Gnd 10 >-------O---------O-- Green 3 >----------+---------+-- Red Gnd 11 >-------O---------O-- Red 4 >----------+---------+-- Mono Gnd 12 >-------O---------O-- Mono 5 >----+ 13 >-+ +------------ Power Gnd 6 >----------+------------ Key Gnd 14 >-------------------- From Key 7 >----------------------- Power 12V 15 >-------------------- To Key 8 >----------------------- Key 12V Box-mounted connectors : VR201 (DA15-P) 1 o 9 o 2 o 10 o 3 o 11 o 4 o-----------+--------+--- Mono Gnd 12 o--------O--------O--- Mono 5 o-------+---------------- Power Gnd 13 o | 6 o-------+---------------- Key Gnd 14 o--------------------- From Key 7 o------------------------ Power 12V 15 o--------------------- To Key 8 o------------------------ Key 12V Monitor BNCs : Red ( o )--------- Red Gnd | +----------- Red Green ( o )--------- Green Gnd | +----------- Green Blue ( o )--------- Blue Gnd | +----------- Blue Mono ( o )--------- Mono Gnd | +----------- Mono LK201 keyboard (RJ11-- front face view) ------- | | ----- ----- | | | | | | -- ^ ^ ^ ^-- | | | | From Key -----+ | | +----- To Key Key 12V----------+ +-------- Key Gnd Components : ------------ DA15S socket + hood (to fit Rainbow video connector) DA15P plug + jackposts (for VR201 connection) 4 off 75 Ohm BNC sockets (for monitor connections). You could use other connectors, like RCA phono, but BNC are standard. RJ11 socket, chassis mounting (for LK201 keyboard). Chassis mounting sockets of this type are very hard to find. I ended up making a bracket to clamp a PCB-mounting one to the panel Metal box of a suitable size to hold the above connectors (apart from the DA15S). 1m cable. At least 4 75 Ohm screened cores and 6 single wires. I used a 'unversal SCART cable' which has 6 75 ohm screened cores (I simply ignored 2 of them), a 4 way screened cable (I used this for the 4 keyboard connections) and 4 other wires (2 in parallel for each of Power 12V and Power Gnd). Possible monitor combinations : ------------------------------- 1) VR201 only This is pretty useless, but you can connect a VR201 mono monitor using the DEC lead to the DA15P on the box. Connect the LK201 keyboard to either the VR201 or the RJ11 on the box. 2) Standard composite mono monitor Connect monitor input to 'mono' BNC on the box. Connect LK201 to the RJ11 on the box. This works just like a VR201, but you can use any monitor 3) VR201 and separate mono graphics monitor Connect VR201 to DA15P. Connect LK201to either RJ11 on the box or to VR201. Connect second (composite) monitor to the 'green' BNC. You can use the dual monitor driver for GSX and have text on the VR201 and graphics on the second monitor 4) Two composite mono monitors Connect one to 'mono' BNC, other to 'green' BNC. Connect LK201 to RJ11 on box. Using the dual monitor driver, you get text on the first monitor and graphics on the second monitor 5) RGB (sync-on-green) colour monitor (e.g. VR241) Connect monitor inputs to BNCs as follows : Red - Red Green - Mono Blue - Blue. Connect LK201 to RJ11 on box. This gives the standard DEC color monitor connections giving green text and colour graphics using the colour monitor driver 6) RGB monitor and VR201 Connect VR201 to DA15P on box. Connect LK201 to RJ11 on box. Connect color monitor as follows Red - Red Green - Green Blue - Blue This gives separate text and colour graphics displays when used with the dual monitor driver 7) RGB monitor and composite mono monitor Connect mono monitor input to 'mono' BNC. Connect LK201 to RJ11. Connect colour monitor as follows Red - Red Green - Green Blue - Blue This gives separate text and colour graphics displays when used with the dual monitor driver > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 18 23:41:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > 4) The concensus seems to be that these aren't "worth much" (whatever "much" > is). I would imagine that my dad is trying to just free space and would > like a fair price. I'm sure there are plenty of people here with an opinion > of what fair is, so have at it. $20 each is fair. A little less ($10-$15) if they are in crap condition, a little more ($25) if they are in great condition. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue May 18 21:42:18 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62489.216.218.236.136.1084934538.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> I'm not sure, but if it is like the pro and vaxstations, etc. there should be dumb terminal support but would require a special cable/adapter that is rs323 with a couple pins tied together to define it as a console. If you have a H8571-b mmj adapter I think that works. if you can't find/make a console cable, let me know and perhaps I can look it up the weekend. of course you can always use the cpu to make one of bob's SBC6120s if the computer is bad... Pavl_ > Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly because I never > did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8 > (Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like > to test the thing out before I offer it to anyone. > > 1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it > is, I don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal. > > 2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are > the specifics? > > This machine is in decent condition, with an RX50 and a hard disk of > some sort. I have no manuals. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 19 00:29:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II In-Reply-To: <62489.216.218.236.136.1084934538.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> References: <62489.216.218.236.136.1084934538.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> Message-ID: <20040519052917.GA14658@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 07:42:18PM -0700, pzachary@sasquatch.com wrote: > I'm not sure, but if it is like the pro and vaxstations, etc. there should > be dumb terminal support but would require a special cable/adapter that is > rs323 with a couple pins tied together to define it as a console. If you > have a H8571-b mmj adapter I think that works. While that's true for uVAXen, I don't think that's true with DECmates. > of course you can always use the cpu to make one of bob's SBC6120s if the > computer is bad... That's what I did for my first SBC6120 - borrowed the CPU from my DECmate-II (since it's socketed there, and soldered on the DECmate III(+) boards). Since then, I've picked up a spare DM-III board for $20 and borrowed the CPU from _it_ (leaving both the CPU and the DM-III board intact). Given the cost of a new CPU chip, this was cost effective, if you ignore the cost of my time to carefully desolder the chip and install a machined-pin socket. -ethan Not so strangely enough, to tie this in with another current thread, I picked up the DM-II about 12 years ago at the Dayton Hamvention for, IIRC, $35, with keyboard and VR-201. I even got the seller to deliver it to my car - a coup, if you've been to Dayton and seen how far we park from the site). You used to be able to get VR-201s at Dayton for $3-$6, but they've more or less vanished from the tables these days. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-May-2004 05:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -48.7 F (-44.9 C) Windchill -115.7 F (-82.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.2 kts Grid 019 Barometer 682.9 mb (10516. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 19 04:36:27 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> 1) They are currently located in Tewksbury, MA USA (about >>> 30 mins North of Boston) I am located on Long Island. If there is no one else closer and willing, I can probably pick them up NEXT weekend. [May 29/30] David. From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed May 19 08:18:29 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: another good auction auction AND free Sun OS manuals. In-Reply-To: <40AAA204.4010409@theriver.com> References: <40AAA204.4010409@theriver.com> Message-ID: <1084972709.5533.5.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 18:53, Tom Ponsford wrote: > Installing GunOS Is this some sort of reference manual regarding what you need to do w/ w/ a Solaris box after installing one of Sun's clustering products? :) David PS: Yes, I do see this is copied to Rescue.. good. :P From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed May 19 07:33:28 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? Message-ID: <40AB5418.2030206@4mcnabb.net> While digging around in the basement last night I found my old Nintendo GameBoy, with a 1999 manufacture date. That makes it 15 years old. Does this now make it a classic? The interesting thing is that the old 1999 GameBoy games will play in my six year old's brand new 2004 Gameboy Advanced SP. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 07:45:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: New pictures; UYK-20 Computer and Millennium uProcessor System tester Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519084514.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've added some more pictures to my website. The first ones are of one of the UYK-20 computers. These were made by Sperry Rand and are militry versions of the Univac and use core memory. . The other pictures are of the Millennium microproccessor tester that was discussed here a few weeks ago. I took these pictures in a hurry and they aren't real good, particularly the ones of the Millennium. It was in the back of a dark warehouse and the pictures show it. One item of interest on the Millennium is the pullout drawer on the side. It has the CPU and all of the CPU spcific items on it. In other words, you can change it from an 8080 system to a 6800 system by merely changeing that drawer. I have two of these and IIRC one is 6800 and the other is 8080 based. Joe From MTPro at aol.com Wed May 19 08:05:54 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: <4695ACD3.414B91C1.0000EF7A@aol.com> In a message dated Tue, 18 May 2004 21:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival writes: > > $20 each is fair. A little less ($10-$15) if they are in > crap condition, > a little more ($25) if they are in great condition. > No offense Sellam, but I would say that they are worth about double those figures, for east coast values. I recently sold one in good condition for about $50 or $60 I think. Best, David, classiccomputing.com From MTPro at aol.com Wed May 19 08:09:45 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: <5A77A300.22A04421.0000EF7A@aol.com> << I recently sold one in good condition for about $50 or $60 I think. >. Oops, I sold an ADM 5 on vintage.org marketplace for $79. That was in mid-February. I guess these are worth more for the lower case text? Best, classiccomputing.com From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 19 08:15:30 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: <4695ACD3.414B91C1.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01c43da3$5c7e6f50$99100f14@mcothran1> I haven't done my homework yet, but I'm sure someone else already knows the answer. Can these things easily interface to a PDP-11? I don't ever remember seeing one in conjunction with any DEC systems. I think they're neat looking, and wouldn't mind having one. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals > In a message dated Tue, 18 May 2004 21:41:13 -0700 (PDT) > Vintage Computer Festival writes: > > > > > $20 each is fair. A little less ($10-$15) if they are in > > crap condition, > > a little more ($25) if they are in great condition. > > > > No offense Sellam, but I would say that they are worth about double those figures, for east coast values. I recently sold one in good condition for about $50 or $60 I think. Best, David, classiccomputing.com From cb at mythtech.net Wed May 19 08:29:39 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? Message-ID: >While digging around in the basement last night I found my old Nintendo >GameBoy, with a 1999 manufacture date. That makes it 15 years old. >Does this now make it a classic? > >The interesting thing is that the old 1999 GameBoy games will play in >my six year old's brand new 2004 Gameboy Advanced SP. Shall we presume you meant 1989, or are you counting in a different base? 1999 - 2004 is 5 years, not 15. -chris From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed May 19 08:33:57 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted References: Message-ID: <16555.25157.545942.223558@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Wed, 19 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: >> Well, in my experience it's more a case of 'You'll be down for a >> day, and then the machine will run for 5 years without problems' >> .vs. 'We'll be up in an hour, but you'll have all sorts of >> problems afterwards, and you'll probably keep on having to have >> another hour's fiddling every other week or so'. Of course they >> don't tell you that last bit ;-) Vintage> Tony, in some cases, a business being down a whole day means Vintage> that business goes under completely. It's not as cut and Vintage> dry in the "real world". I learned about low tolerance for downtime in my first job at DEC -- field support (traveling software repairman) for Typeset-11. When your customers are newspaper publishers, being down for an hour is very serious. Being down for a day is unthinkable. Same sort of thing applies to the stuff I work on now (storage area network storage boxes). When hundreds of users have several terabytes of stuff on your box, it had better be up and stay up. Tony is right that ignorant boardswapping doesn't help you then. But neither does repair in the field. What you do instead is a combination of fault tolerance (redundancy -- a failure doesn't take the system down) and accurate fault isolation (when something breaks you can immediately tell what it is, so when you do a module swap it WILL be the right module). This puts a large burden on the designers, but that's the right place for the burden. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed May 19 08:41:06 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: DECmate II References: <20040518221933.GA23026@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16555.25586.522185.818812@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Donzelli writes: >> You could make up your own DA-15 cable with a 4-pin jack >> (telephone-handset type, not RJ-11) for an LK201 keyboard, and an >> RCA video out for a standard monochrome monitor of the style used >> with Apple IIs, etc, or you could try to locate a VR201. William> I could, but this is a "minimal effort" project. I just want William> to push this thing out the door, with the future buyer William> having some sort of clue as of condition. William> Still, cramming some wires in the connector and feeding that William> to a mono tube should be easy enough. Don't know about a DECmate, but if you did that with a PRO, you'd probably run into a selftest failure due to missing keyboard. If so, you'd probably still get at least a display on the screen, or perhaps some selftest status LEDs on the back of the box changing from their powerup default (which should be "all on" if the DECmate follows DEC convention). So you don't have to go dig, the video pins are: 4 -- mono return (common) 5, 6 -- ground 12 -- mono video 13 -- monitor present L (i.e., ground this pin) The full description is in the Pro technical manual, volume 1; I took the above from page 5-130. paul From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 19 08:50:24 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <000a01c43da3$5c7e6f50$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > I haven't done my homework yet, but I'm sure someone else already > knows the answer. Can these things easily interface to a PDP-11? Well, that probably depends on the system. I have two ADM3's here, and they were both used with PDP-11's, and those systems had regular (EIA) interfaces. If your system has 20mA current loop, the ADM3 might need another line interface, if they had that... --f From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 19 09:43:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <4695ACD3.414B91C1.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2004 MTPro@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Tue, 18 May 2004 21:41:13 -0700 (PDT) > Vintage Computer Festival writes: > > > > > $20 each is fair. A little less ($10-$15) if they are in > > crap condition, > > a little more ($25) if they are in great condition. > > > > No offense Sellam, but I would say that they are worth about double > those figures, for east coast values. I recently sold one in good > condition for about $50 or $60 I think. Best, David, > classiccomputing.com Hi David. Yours is only one price point. Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, which they aren't. Also, items in bulk quantity, as in this case, are always discounted. For an individual unit, I'd be slightly (but only slightly) inclined to go with the higher value as a suggested sale price. I think the prices I've posted reflect reality, though the owner is welcome to ask more if he wants of course. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed May 19 10:00:24 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: New pictures; UYK-20 Computer and Millennium uProcessor System tester In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040519084514.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040519084514.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405190800.24486.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Joe, What's "behind" the "open.jpg" panel - have you opened it further to see the internal boards, etc. This is an interesting find.... >From a manual: "The AN/UYK-20(V), is a general- purpose processor designed to meet the requirements of small and medium processor applications in shipboard or shore military facilities. The processor is used in the CUDIXS, NAVMACS, SSIXS (shore installations), and TACINTEL subsystems." Lyle On Wednesday 19 May 2004 05:45, Joe R. wrote: > I've added some more pictures to my website. The first ones are of one > of the UYK-20 computers. These were made by Sperry Rand and are militry > versions of the Univac and use core memory. > . The other pictures > are of the Millennium > microproccessor tester that was discussed here a few weeks ago. I took > these pictures in a hurry and they aren't real good, particularly the ones > of the Millennium. It was in the back of a dark warehouse and the pictures > show it. One item of interest on the Millennium is the pullout drawer on > the side. It has the CPU and all of the CPU spcific items on it. In other > words, you can change it from an 8080 system to a 6800 system by merely > changeing that drawer. I have two of these and IIRC one is 6800 and the > other is 8080 based. > > Joe -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From allain at panix.com Wed May 19 10:12:03 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: Message-ID: <01a101c43db3$b0b66400$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, > which they aren't. Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or three places where a person could go and get one of these. John A. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed May 19 10:15:32 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00f601c43db4$26fba490$6e7ba8c0@p933> If/when someone does pick these up, please keep me on the list for one or two! :) I'm located in San Jose, CA, so I won't be volunteering. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Damien Cymbal Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:18 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Wow, My inbox overfloweth..... I've gotten alot of responses so rather than reply individually, I'll post what I know here: 1) They are currently located in Tewksbury, MA USA (about 30 mins North of Boston) 2) I am not sure of the current condition. I believe at one time they were all pulled as working units out of a library and have been in storage for a couple years. I will try and get more details. 3) I don't think my dad has too much time for packaging/shipping, so I think he was looking for somebody to pickup locally. If there is someone local on the list that would want to pickup and disperse that would be cool. 4) The concensus seems to be that these aren't "worth much" (whatever "much" is). I would imagine that my dad is trying to just free space and would like a fair price. I'm sure there are plenty of people here with an opinion of what fair is, so have at it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:38 PM Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of interest to anybody or should I tell him to just scrap them? From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed May 19 10:26:30 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <01a101c43db3$b0b66400$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, > > which they aren't. > > Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or > three places where a person could go and get one of these. I'm not Sellam, but I've seen at least a dozen go through Purdue's salvage op in the past two years or so. Not all were "usable" state, but quite a few were. BTW, these weren't just ADM3's, they were also "ADM"s (no number) and ADM5's and ADM3+s. I've got two or three of them between a friend and me. And of course, "not usable" means "could be repaired", but since there were plenty of working units available, and I had better thing to do with my time (like classwork, my paying job, and working on gathering a VAX/Micro-PDP11 collection), I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking thinking about fixing any. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 10:45:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: New pictures;UYK-20 Computer and Millennium uProcessor System tester In-Reply-To: <200405190800.24486.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040519084514.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040519084514.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519114554.0094e610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:00 AM 5/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >Joe, > >What's "behind" the "open.jpg" panel - have you opened it further to see the >internal boards, etc. Yes I've opened it further but I didn't have tools with me yesterday so I didn't open it further then and take more pictures. Behind the panel is a bunch of core memory boards and some other cards. I don't remember much about the other cards but I have some of the core boards here at the house. I'll photograph them and post the pictures later today. This is an interesting find.... Yes, they are. I found several of these and some UYK-44s about a year and half ago and never got around to doing anything with them. One was baddly damaged and partially stripped so I took it apart for the cards. The others appear to be intact. > >>From a manual: "The AN/UYK-20(V), is a general- >purpose processor designed to meet the requirements >of small and medium processor applications in >shipboard or shore military facilities. The processor is >used in the CUDIXS, NAVMACS, SSIXS (shore >installations), and TACINTEL subsystems." You have the manual for these? Any chance of borrowing it? Or at leasst getting a copy or PDF of the descriptions? They use a crap load of these things onboard ship. If you search the net you'll find dozens of references to them being used for fire control systems, navigation, communication systems, cryptography etc etc. Somewhere on the net is a photo of the radio room of one of the big battleships (USS Missouri?) and you can see one in the photo. BTW IIRC I found a date of 1968 somewhere on one of these. Joe > >Lyle > > >On Wednesday 19 May 2004 05:45, Joe R. wrote: >> I've added some more pictures to my website. The first ones are of one >> of the UYK-20 computers. These were made by Sperry Rand and are militry >> versions of the Univac and use core memory. >> . The other pictures >> are of the Millennium >> microproccessor tester that was discussed here a few weeks ago. I took >> these pictures in a hurry and they aren't real good, particularly the ones >> of the Millennium. It was in the back of a dark warehouse and the pictures >> show it. One item of interest on the Millennium is the pullout drawer on >> the side. It has the CPU and all of the CPU spcific items on it. In other >> words, you can change it from an 8080 system to a 6800 system by merely >> changeing that drawer. I have two of these and IIRC one is 6800 and the >> other is 8080 based. >> >> Joe > >-- >Lyle Bickley >Bickley Consulting West Inc. >http://bickleywest.com >"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" > > > From marvin at rain.org Wed May 19 10:51:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: Message-ID: <40AB827A.FA20BC4@rain.org> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Wed, 19 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > > > > Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, > > > which they aren't. > > > > Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or > > three places where a person could go and get one of these. > > I'm not Sellam, but I've seen at least a dozen go through Purdue's salvage > op in the past two years or so. Not all were "usable" state, but quite a > few were. BTW, these weren't just ADM3's, they were also "ADM"s (no > number) and ADM5's and ADM3+s. I've got two or three of them between a > friend and me. Just to toss in another factor, being rare or uncommon doesn't necessarily affect the price. A prime example is the Altair where IIRC some 25000 or so were made. They are worth far more than something like the Lobo Drives computer where only about 5000 were made. From acme at gbronline.com Wed May 19 11:13:27 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Altos 686 References: <002101c4378c$660ccac0$0200000a@xeon><20040514194053.36172939.sastevens@earthlink.net><40A64D34.6080607@mdrconsult.com> <20040515154150.394888bd.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <017a01c43dbc$38a37940$864f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stevens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Altos 686 > You're probably right. I should have just said 'the 580 was an 8-bit > CP/M machine.' There weren't that many 8080 machines in the later years > of CP/M, i.e. the Altos 580 time period. By then everyone had switched > to the Z80. And Intel was hyping the 8085. Were there many other > machines besides the Tandy 100 that used the 8085? The Zenith Z-100 is a dual-processor machine featuring both the 8088 and 8085, but most people used them as almost-PCs and the 8085 was pretty much ignored. Glen 0/0 From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed May 19 11:31:33 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <01a101c43db3$b0b66400$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >> Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, >> which they aren't. > >Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or >three places where a person could go and get one of these. I own 4. I know where at least 6 more are. None presently for sale however. They were once VERY common in banks in this area (They were in every Citizen's Bank of Maryland I went in to in the mid 1980s... probably had 10 per branch in more than 100 branches, two credit unions I belong to used to be littered with them, the last ones replaced only 4 or 5 years ago). Some may have been 3As but all were the two tone blue, light on top, darker on bottom. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed May 19 11:50:53 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:40 2005 Subject: Nonvolatile RAM on single board computers Message-ID: <200405191650.JAA11096@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I usually make copies on two diferent media. I make a copy on another similar device and also a 3.5 floppy. I keep these with the unit. Have you played with the SBC any? What kind is it? These are always interesting to collect because of the chalenges of locating software and documentation for them. I've been known to connect up a switch panel to a uP socket and use this to determine the addresses of ports and memory. I did this on a 80C186 machine and implemented a Forth on it so that I could play with it. Development boards are also fun to play with. I have a few of these. Later Dwight >From: "SHAUN RIPLEY" > >I have a SBC with nonvolatile RAM on it. There are >DRAM and EPROM too. I guess the nonvolatile RAM might >be used to hold some important parameters while EPROM >is used to hold program. > >Since nonvolatile RAM has limited life, I wonder how >you guys deal with nonvolatile RAM in your old >computers. Reading out the content with a EPROM >programmer is a solution that jumps into my mind. >"Burn" a new nonvolatile RAM and wait for another 10 >years? It seems a boring work... > >vax, 3900 > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. >http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed May 19 11:53:30 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: New pictures; UYK-20 Computer and Millennium uProcessor System tester In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040519114554.0094e610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040519084514.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040519114554.0094e610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405190953.30028.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Wednesday 19 May 2004 08:45, Joe R. wrote: > At 08:00 AM 5/19/04 -0700, you wrote: ---snip--- > You have the manual for these? Any chance of borrowing it? Or at leasst > getting a copy or PDF of the descriptions? Under separate cover I'm sending you a PDF that I got from ACM's Digital Library. Since it's under copyright and I pay for the service to retrieve these documents, I feel uncomfortable posting the manual to the list. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed May 19 11:56:23 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: New pictures; UYK-20 Computer and Millennium uProcessor System tester Message-ID: <200405191656.JAA11119@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > I've added some more pictures to my website. The first ones are of one >of the UYK-20 computers. These were made by Sperry Rand and are militry >versions of the Univac and use core memory. >. The other pictures ---snip--- Hi Joe Does anyone know what processor model was used for these? It would be great to power one of these up and actually program one. It looks like a 16 bit machine. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 12:02:14 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >While digging around in the basement last night I found my old Nintendo >>GameBoy, with a 1999 manufacture date. That makes it 15 years old. > >Does this now make it a classic? I think it's a true Classic, but am not sure how on topic it is. > >The interesting thing is that the old 1999 GameBoy games will play in >>my six year old's brand new 2004 Gameboy Advanced SP. > >Shall we presume you meant 1989, or are you counting in a different base? >1999 - 2004 is 5 years, not 15. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant :^) I got my first Gameboy in 1989, along with three of the four carts that were originally released, just before leaving on a six month cruise in the Navy. Awesome device, especially for Sailors :^) I had to replace it in the early 90's when the screen went out (I still have that one though last I checked the screen was going). My wife and I bought the original Gameboy Advance about a week before it came out, and we each have our own GBA SP. Oddly enough, both the mini and color models are missing from our collection of video game systems. Come to think of it, we don't have any of the Color Carts either. BTW, we found that with the original Gameboy Advance, which didn't have the backlite screen, that my original carts played better than the GBA carts as they were easier to see. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed May 19 12:21:08 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <200405191700.i4JH03hl036998@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040519172108.87003.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> These terminals are very nice; I have a brown one and a blue one. One part that always breaks or is missing is the flap on the front for the DIP switches. I made aluminum plates to fit in the recess. Both of mine had seriously burned in CRT's; I put in new ones I got for about $40 each shipped (I hate this kind of work, but I did it) and now they look and feel new. I opted for B/W for "originality", although I could have gotten green phosphor at the same price. One didn't have the lower case option; the chip for lower case is hard to find. So I copied the ROM out of the ADM-3 with lower case (2kx8, strange voltages and pinouts, a 2513-type ROM), blew a 2716, and made a little adapter to plug into the other ADM-3's 2513 socket. This, two 2102-1 RAMs, and a few flips of dip switches gave me lower case! Absolutely hideous matrix, but very authentic! ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed May 19 07:53:07 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <40AB5418.2030206@4mcnabb.net> References: <40AB5418.2030206@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040519085201.031fdc78@24.161.37.215> um, 1999 is 5 years old, right? And yes, Nintendo intentionally made the Gameboys like that. -John Boffemmyer IV At 08:33 AM 5/19/2004, you wrote: >While digging around in the basement last night I found my old Nintendo >GameBoy, with a 1999 manufacture date. That makes it 15 years old. >Does this now make it a classic? >The interesting thing is that the old 1999 GameBoy games will play in my >six year old's brand new 2004 Gameboy Advanced SP. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jpl15 at panix.com Wed May 19 12:50:34 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago Message-ID: Scanning thru a newsgroup, I happened on this: http://chicagotest.i8.com/BigSale.html If you look at the pictures, there are several HP desktop calc/computers underneath alll that other Stuff... website says most everything will be in the $10 - 30 range - this coming Saturday, the 22nd. Might be some Rescue Opportunities Cheers John From lcourtney at mvista.com Wed May 19 12:54:16 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <20040519172108.87003.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Steve, > Both of mine had seriously burned in CRT's; I put in > new ones I got for about $40 each shipped (I hate this Where did you get these. Have details of the swap out? Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Loboyko Steve > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:21 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals > > > These terminals are very nice; I have a brown one and > a blue one. One part that always breaks or is missing > is the flap on the front for the DIP switches. I made > aluminum plates to fit in the recess. > > Both of mine had seriously burned in CRT's; I put in > new ones I got for about $40 each shipped (I hate this > kind of work, but I did it) and now they look and feel > new. I opted for B/W for "originality", although I > could have gotten green phosphor at the same price. > > One didn't have the lower case option; the chip for > lower case is hard to find. So I copied the ROM out of > the ADM-3 with lower case (2kx8, strange voltages and > pinouts, a 2513-type ROM), blew a 2716, and made a > little adapter to plug into the other ADM-3's 2513 > socket. This, two 2102-1 RAMs, and a few flips of dip > switches gave me lower case! Absolutely hideous > matrix, but very authentic! > > > > > ===== > -Steve Loboyko > > > Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: > > "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." > > Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 19 13:01:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <01a101c43db3$b0b66400$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, > > which they aren't. > > Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or > three places where a person could go and get one of these. eBay, VCM, my warehouse ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed May 19 13:04:37 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention References: Message-ID: Another year and another missed Hamvention. Did anyone go? How was it? What did you pick up? From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 19 12:52:47 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Nonvolatile RAM on single board computers In-Reply-To: <200405191650.JAA11096@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040519175247.86934.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> It is a multibus 8086 SBC. vax, 3900 --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > I usually make copies on two diferent media. I make > a copy on another similar device and also a 3.5 > floppy. > I keep these with the unit. > Have you played with the SBC any? What kind is it? > These are always interesting to collect because of > the > chalenges of locating software and documentation for > them. > I've been known to connect up a switch panel to a > uP > socket and use this to determine the addresses of > ports > and memory. I did this on a 80C186 machine and > implemented > a Forth on it so that I could play with it. > Development boards are also fun to play with. I > have > a few of these. > Later > Dwight > > > >From: "SHAUN RIPLEY" > > > >I have a SBC with nonvolatile RAM on it. There are > >DRAM and EPROM too. I guess the nonvolatile RAM > might > >be used to hold some important parameters while > EPROM > >is used to hold program. > > > >Since nonvolatile RAM has limited life, I wonder > how > >you guys deal with nonvolatile RAM in your old > >computers. Reading out the content with a EPROM > >programmer is a solution that jumps into my mind. > >"Burn" a new nonvolatile RAM and wait for another > 10 > >years? It seems a boring work... > > > >vax, 3900 > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > >http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed May 19 13:22:07 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: <200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Wed, 19 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > >> > Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, >> > which they aren't. >> >> Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or >> three places where a person could go and get one of these. > >eBay, VCM, my warehouse ;) > Hi I'd be more interested in getting a Beehive terminal. Intel blue would be nice. Dwight From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 19 13:23:44 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: <200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not sure of the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. Trying to get one like the one I used in high school for HP2000/Access. I do remember is was a brownish/cream color, the keyboard was a separate unit but fit in front into a recess so it was not always obvious it was a separate unit. I think one or two of the keys (maybe caps lock) had an led in the side. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed May 19 13:32:39 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <4695ACD3.414B91C1.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040519111918.00a5d8b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > $20 each is fair. A little less ($10-$15) if they are in >I recently sold one in good condition for about $50 or $60 Most places will want $13 as a disposal fee, outside of this list there are what, maybe 4 people who have a use for one and don't already have 3 spares? Value depends a lot on where you live in the food chain (scrap industry), and if you actually have some use for one. To me, about $10 to $20 in a garage (take the whole batch) sounds fair, and so is $50 for the nice ones if you are willing to test it, clean it up, and then box and ship them one at a time. From Innfogra at aol.com Wed May 19 13:51:23 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: <1e2.20f868bf.2ddd06ab@aol.com> I think Beehives are much more rarer than ADMs of any kind. Beehives were highly sought after by my scrapper as they had an aluminum case and good cards. He actively sought out Beehives as one of the best terminals to scrap along with the early Sorocs and went out of his way to search them out. As a result there are few Intel ones in PDX. ADMs survived by having very poor scrap values and high disposal costs for the plastic case. Paxton Astoria, OR From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed May 19 13:43:58 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Help with APPLE //C Message-ID: <7D28C13E-A9C4-11D8-925D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> My brother just got an apple //C, but it came without power supply.. I heard there was "cigarette lighter" adapter for the Apple IIC, Will the Apple IIC run on 12V? (the case says 15V 1.2Amps) Does anyone know where we can get a power supply? 2- will ProDOS run on 5 1/4" diskette? 3- Will DOS 3.3 run on 3 1/2" disks? From dan at ekoan.com Wed May 19 14:04:40 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com> <026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040519150314.042e1920@enigma> At 02:23 PM 5/19/04, you wrote: >I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not sure of >the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. Trying to get one like the one I >used in high school for HP2000/Access. I do remember is was a brownish/cream >color, the keyboard was a separate unit but fit in front into a recess so it >was not always obvious it was a separate unit. I think one or two of the >keys (maybe caps lock) had an led in the side. I have a scanned photo of a Beehive terminal from a manual at http://www.decodesystems.com/beehive-terminal.gif However, this one doesn't look like the keyboard detaches. Cheers, Dan From Innfogra at aol.com Wed May 19 14:04:19 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago Message-ID: <15a.35705d51.2ddd09b3@aol.com> I see a HP 9820 or 30 in the pile, not to mention a HP 9825 and a HP 86. I want to go but it is too far. Looks like a great sale!!!! If anyone goes please post a report. It looks well worth going. Look for very old large 200 & 400 channel dataloggers. I have pulled a lot of core memory stacks from those. Some of the tube stuff will have tubes that are worth more than the instruments. Looks like lots of collectibles. I would love to know the history of the junkpile. It looks like someone has been going to auctions for a long time. Paxton Astoria, OR From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 19 14:05:24 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: <200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com><026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040519150314.042e1920@enigma> Message-ID: <028b01c43dd4$3dba5800$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Dan wrote... > I have a scanned photo of a Beehive terminal from a manual at > http://www.decodesystems.com/beehive-terminal.gif > > However, this one doesn't look like the keyboard detaches. This one in the picture of Dan's is quite similar to the one I'm looking for! Yet it is different. I would hazzard a guess that the one I'm looking for is a later model than the one in Dan's picture. Ah, the memories! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 14:09:37 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519150937.008d02b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ohhh! Nice selection. An early hp 9825 with the chicklet keys, a HP 9826, what looks like a HP 9830, a couple of HP 9862 plotters and LOTs of interesting test equipment. That GR LCR bridge in the second set of pictures is cool! At 01:50 PM 5/19/04 -0400, you wrote: > >Scanning thru a newsgroup, I happened on this: > >http://chicagotest.i8.com/BigSale.html > >If you look at the pictures, there are several HP desktop calc/computers >underneath alll that other Stuff... > > website says most everything will be in the $10 - 30 range - this coming >Saturday, the 22nd. > > > Might be some Rescue Opportunities > > >Cheers > >John > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 14:12:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519151254.008d29b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, I have one, come and get it. It's marked Intel and it's Intel blue. Joe At 11:22 AM 5/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >> >>On Wed, 19 May 2004, John Allain wrote: >> >>> > Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, >>> > which they aren't. >>> >>> Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or >>> three places where a person could go and get one of these. >> >>eBay, VCM, my warehouse ;) >> > >Hi > I'd be more interested in getting a Beehive terminal. >Intel blue would be nice. >Dwight > > > From CGUARDIA at VENTURAFOODS.com Wed May 19 12:46:26 2004 From: CGUARDIA at VENTURAFOODS.com (GUARDIA, CHRIS) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: AT-AO-6/10 Message-ID: Do you still have any of these for sale? From sarkis at mslabo.com Wed May 19 13:03:26 2004 From: sarkis at mslabo.com (Sarkis DANIEL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Elektor and OSI's OS-65D (was OHIO-DOS) Message-ID: <8F6D5BDE69882B4FABFD9D9EF7BCCBEC32BC@andromeda.MSLABO.local> bonjour moi aussi jai un c4p avec la carte 502 sans lecteur de disk et je cherche lr os65d ou os65u pour un branchement de sa400 cordialement sd From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 14:16:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040519150314.042e1920@enigma> References: <026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com> <026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519151629.00838b20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have one but mine doesn't have that dished out look and it does have a detachable keyboard. I'll see about taking a picture of in a day or two when the weather is better. Joe At 03:04 PM 5/19/04 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:23 PM 5/19/04, you wrote: >>I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not sure of >>the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. Trying to get one like the one I >>used in high school for HP2000/Access. I do remember is was a brownish/cream >>color, the keyboard was a separate unit but fit in front into a recess so it >>was not always obvious it was a separate unit. I think one or two of the >>keys (maybe caps lock) had an led in the side. > >I have a scanned photo of a Beehive terminal from a manual at >http://www.decodesystems.com/beehive-terminal.gif > >However, this one doesn't look like the keyboard detaches. > > >Cheers, > >Dan > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 14:18:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: New pictures; UYK-20 Computer Core Memory Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519151803.00832940@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just finished adding some pictures of the core memory boards from the UYK-20 to my website at . This is a picture of the back of one memory card with a 3.5" floppy disk laying on it for size comparision. This is a picture of the top. The core is under the green cover. Here is a close-up of the Sperry Univac logo on the memory board. And finally, here is a picture of the core itself. You can get an idea of the size of the core area in comparision with the 3.5" floppy disk in the LH edge of the picture. The green over comes off very easily. Just remove four screws and it slides off. Lyle Bickley send me a couple of PDF files about the UYK-20 and I've posted them on the same webpage. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 19 14:17:29 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: <026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200405191822.LAA11290@clulw009.amd.com><026601c43dce$6b411080$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040519151629.00838b20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <02b601c43dd5$ed9af3a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Joe wrote... > I have one but mine doesn't have that dished out look and it does have a > detachable keyboard. I'll see about taking a picture of in a day or two > when the weather is better. Awesome! Let me see that pic when you get a chance! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 19 14:35:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Help with APPLE //C In-Reply-To: <7D28C13E-A9C4-11D8-925D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > My brother just got an apple //C, but it came without power supply.. > > I heard there was "cigarette lighter" adapter for the Apple IIC, Will > the > Apple IIC run on 12V? (the case says 15V 1.2Amps) > > Does anyone know where we can get a power supply? ? > 2- will ProDOS run on 5 1/4" diskette? Yes. > 3- Will DOS 3.3 run on 3 1/2" disks? Yes, with the proper mods. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed May 19 15:07:43 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: All this terminal talk... In-Reply-To: <028b01c43dd4$3dba5800$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: ...reminds me of the InterTube II I used to have. Wasn't it basically a SuperBrain without the drives and "real" computer? g. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 19 16:58:26 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <000a01c43da3$5c7e6f50$99100f14@mcothran1> References: <4695ACD3.414B91C1.0000EF7A@aol.com> <000a01c43da3$5c7e6f50$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040519215826.GA10319@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 09:15:30AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > I haven't done my homework yet, but I'm sure someone else already knows the > answer. > Can these things easily interface to a PDP-11? I don't ever remember seeing > one in conjunction with any DEC systems. I think they're neat looking, and > wouldn't mind having one. That depends on which DEC world you circulated in... there's been a termcap entry for the ADM 3A in UNIX for as far back as my experience goes. I don't recall seeing them at all in non-university or non-UNIX settings, though. DEC terminals cost enough that in the notoriously cheap educational market, people gave serious consideration to other forms of terminals (I have reciepts from the early-to-mid-1980s for VT100s at around $1,700 each, which is why Software Results had a mix of DEC terminals and CiTOH terminals, '101's and '101e's). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-May-2004 21:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -66.4 F (-54.7 C) Windchill -153.1 F (-102.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.7 kts Grid 008 Barometer 683.2 mb (10504. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed May 19 17:14:01 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040519085201.031fdc78@24.161.37.215> References: <40AB5418.2030206@4mcnabb.net> <6.1.0.6.2.20040519085201.031fdc78@24.161.37.215> Message-ID: <40ABDC29.5070606@4mcnabb.net> John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > um, 1999 is 5 years old, right? > I meant to say 1989. That's what I get for typing when I first get up in the morning. From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 19 17:14:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: DEC RK07 drive interface specs wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > Hour? Don't be so generous. At ANS you would be in serious hot water for > any maintenance involving an outage that lasted more than about a minute, > scheduled or not. At one point I was told how much AOL lost per minute per > down core router, and it was pretty impressive. > > This was five years ago. I am sure it is even "worse" now. My customers are ready to hang me if their systems drop out for more than, say, half an hour *scheduled* time, or 5-10 mins unscheduled. So, they invest in lots of redundancy, which helps. --f From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed May 19 17:47:18 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <40AB5418.2030206@4mcnabb.net> References: <40AB5418.2030206@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <40ABE3F6.5060500@gifford.co.uk> Christopher McNabb wrote: > While digging around in the basement last night I found my old Nintendo > GameBoy, with a 1999 manufacture date. That makes it 15 years old. > Does this now make it a classic? [date correction: 1989] Well, I was in a charity shop in Clevedon on Saturday and saw two GameBoys for sale, at ?10 for the grey one and ?20 for the yellow one. A few games, too, at about ?3 each. Seemed a bit expensive for such a common machine. It's a Z80 processor in there, isn't it? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed May 19 18:32:45 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: <200405192332.i4JNWihc041008@huey.classiccmp.org> >That depends on which DEC world you circulated in... there's been a termcap >entry for the ADM 3A in UNIX for as far back as my experience goes. > >I don't recall seeing them at all in non-university or non-UNIX settings, >though. DEC terminals cost enough that in the notoriously cheap educational >market, people gave serious consideration to other forms of terminals (I >have reciepts from the early-to-mid-1980s for VT100s at around $1,700 each, >which is why Software Results had a mix of DEC terminals and CiTOH terminals, >'101's and '101e's). The ADM3 did not perform cursor addressing, which the ADM3A did, making the 3A much more useful in many applications - I don't think there would be a termcap entry for a 3. Btw, on the off chance that these are 3A's, I'll mention that I have detailed photos of one, as well as PDF's of both the operators and service manuals posted on my web site: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html Look under the "Altair 8800" entry (I use a 3A on the Altair). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 19 18:24:53 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <00f601c43db4$26fba490$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: >>> >>> >>> My father has 10 or 12 of these terminals that he has no >>> need for. I'm not familiar with them, would they be of interest to anybody >>> or should I tell him to just scrap them? >>> >>> I am attempting to make arrangements to pick these up in the near future [next (not this) weekend]... All interested parties, please contact me off-list david@dynamicconcepts.us. Make sure ADM3 is in the subject. Individual pricing will (probably) be based on the condition of the units. I will fire up each one and run basic tests. David From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 19 18:34:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <200405192332.i4JNWihc041008@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405192332.i4JNWihc041008@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040519233429.GD12756@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 06:32:45PM -0500, Dave Dunfield wrote: > >That depends on which DEC world you circulated in... there's been a termcap > >entry for the ADM 3A in UNIX for as far back as my experience goes. > > The ADM3 did not perform cursor addressing, which the ADM3A did, making the 3A > much more useful in many applications - I don't think there would be a termcap > entry for a 3. Ah. Didn't know the difference. Good to know. > Btw, on the off chance that these are 3A's, I'll mention that I have detailed > photos of one, as well as PDF's of both the operators and service manuals posted > on my web site: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html If I weren't so far from home, I might be interested in one of these terminals, just to add to the stable I already have (VT52, VT55, VT100, VT101, VT102, VT103, VT105, VT125, VT220, VT241, Wyse 50, CiTOH 101, CiTOH 101e, Planar ELT320, and maybe one or two more. I used to have a Beehive, discarded from OCLC, but it was horribly contaminated in a basement flood 15 years ago and I pitched it). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-May-2004 23:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -68.9 F (-56.1 C) Windchill -104.6 F (-75.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 032 Barometer 683.5 mb (10496. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 18:37:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: <15a.35705d51.2ddd09b3@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at May 19, 4 03:04:19 pm Message-ID: > > I see a HP 9820 or 30 in the pile, not to mention a HP 9825 and a HP 86. I It looked like a 9820 to me, and yes, either a 9825 or a 9831 with the chicklet keyboard. At first I thought one of the other objects was a 9100 (Seen fro mteh back), but I think it's actually a plotter. > want to go but it is too far. Looks like a great sale!!!! It's even further for me... Darn it, I want a 9820 to complete the set of 3 machines... > If anyone goes please post a report. It looks well worth going. > > Look for very old large 200 & 400 channel dataloggers. I have pulled a lot of > core memory stacks from those. One of the Fluke loggers -- the 2240 IIRC -- and no I didn't see one in the pile -- used multiple 4040 CPUs. > > Some of the tube stuff will have tubes that are worth more than the > instruments. Please don't do this. These are generally good instruments, better than the sort of stuff most hobbyists have. Get them, restore them, recalibrate them, and use them. I'd much rather use an old Tekky 500 series 'scope than the Lucky Goldstar crap that's sold over here (so called I guess, because you're lucky if the trace bears any relation to the signal you're measuring). Ditto for signal generators, DMMs, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 18:21:23 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <000a01c43da3$5c7e6f50$99100f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at May 19, 4 09:15:30 am Message-ID: [...] > Can these things easily interface to a PDP-11? I don't ever remember seeing There are 2 sides to this, hardware and software. The hardware is no problem. I assume an ADM3 has a standard RS232 port, so all you need is a null modem cable to link it to the serial port on your PDP11. The software side could be more of a problem. For software that doesn't use any form of full-screen mode, cursor addressing, or anything like that -- software that will run with an ASR33 -- then there's no problem. But things like the full screen editor use the VT100 escape sequences, and they're pretty much hard-coded (DEC assumed you'd use one of their terminals ;-)). So setting it up for anything else is pretty much impossible. -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed May 19 19:12:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> Some of the tube stuff will have tubes that are worth >>> more than the instruments. >>> >>> Please don't do this. These are generally good instruments, >>> better than the sort of stuff most hobbyists have. Get >>> them, restore them, recalibrate them, and use them. I'd >>> much rather use an old Tekky 500 series 'scope than the >>> Lucky Goldstar crap that's sold over here (so called I >>> guess, because you're lucky if the trace bears any relation >>> to the signal you're measuring). Ditto for signal >>> generators, DMMs, etc. >>> >>> -tony >>> COMPLETE agreement with Tony! From spectre at floodgap.com Wed May 19 19:44:32 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <40ABE3F6.5060500@gifford.co.uk> from John Honniball at "May 19, 4 11:47:18 pm" Message-ID: <200405200044.RAA12730@floodgap.com> > It's a Z80 processor in there, isn't it? AFAIK, yes. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The fastest way to fold a map is differently. ------------------------------ From chd_1 at nktelco.net Wed May 19 19:32:39 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: ProLog M825 System Analyzer and Millenium ICE pictures Message-ID: <40ABFCA7.7080305@nktelco.net> I took some pictures of the Millennium ICE and the Prolog M825 8085 System Analyzer. http://www.chd.dyndns.org/ICE/ The Millennium looks like the same manufacturer Joe R. was referring to, but a different model. -chuck From spectre at floodgap.com Wed May 19 19:47:24 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <20040519215826.GA10319@bos7.spole.gov> from Ethan Dicks at "May 19, 4 09:58:26 pm" Message-ID: <200405200047.RAA17152@floodgap.com> > > Can these things easily interface to a PDP-11? I don't ever remember seeing > > one in conjunction with any DEC systems. I think they're neat looking, and > > wouldn't mind having one. > > That depends on which DEC world you circulated in... there's been a termcap > entry for the ADM 3A in UNIX for as far back as my experience goes. At the university I used to work for, there were about three or four ADM3As in what we used to call the Virus Lab (after a DOS-era virus got in there and ravaged a number of the PCs), connected to an Xylogics Annex box. I should find out what happened to those; that university never throws anything away and they're probably rotting down in the storage bunker (likely along with the Annex that drove them). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- If Ted Kennedy had driven a VW, he would be President now. ----------------- From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Wed May 19 19:34:45 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: AIM65 test program? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009201c43e02$3fe27940$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > Hello, all: > > While browsing an early-1980 issue of Compute magazine, I > saw a blurb for Rockwell offering copies of the manufacturing > test program for the AIM 65 computer. The blurb references a > test manual (#EA74-M800) and a test program listing > (#EA74-J100). It also indicates that on the manufacturing > line, two EPROMs with the test program are installed in the > BASIC ROM slots. > > Does anyone have either manual or the ROMs in question? > > Thanks. > > Rich Rich, did anybody turn anything up on this? --Patrick From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 19 20:44:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: ProLog M825 System Analyzer and Millenium ICE pictures In-Reply-To: <40ABFCA7.7080305@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040519214430.008c4230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:32 PM 5/19/04 -0400, you wrote: >I took some pictures of the Millennium ICE and the Prolog M825 8085 >System Analyzer. > >http://www.chd.dyndns.org/ICE/ > >The Millennium looks like the same manufacturer Joe R. was referring to, >but a different model. Interesting. I've never seen one like that before. But the console, display and keyboard arrangement and cards look VERY similar. I expect that it's very nearly the same as mine but just repackaged. What CPU is your's designed for? Does it has a probe with it? I don't see a socket on the front for one but it might use one of the ones on the rear. Has anyone else on the list got any of these? Joe > >-chuck > > > From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed May 19 21:52:24 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal Message-ID: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Hi, I need to get rid of the following (it's not in line with what I'm interested in and it's taking up too much space): * Sun 4/110 with printer port and 2 SCSI ports * Sun 4/110 * Sun Sparc Server 490 (has 3 disks in base) (big) * 2 HP Apollo * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) * 2 extra color memory boards * extra 2MW memeory board * Monitor & keyboard * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) * Sun 3/60 * 2 Sun 3/50 * 2 Sun Monochrome monitors (hey, they're monitors...heavy) * Original IBM PC (w 2 1/2 height floppy) * Original IBM PC (w floppy & HD) * AT&T 3B2/EXP * HP-UX tape set (4mm) Rev A.09.05 * HP-UX Install tape * HP-UX Runtime 2-user * HP-UX Runtime Support * X.25/9000 link * Focus for HP-UX * HP9000 Series 700 Customized S/W * Radio Shack TRS80 Model III (no floppies) I want this stuff gone! The whole point of this excersise is to get rid of this stuff so don't ask for board xyz-abc out of something. I'd prefer pickup, but if you're not local I'm sure we can work something out. I haven't tried powering any of this stuff so I'm not sure what works and what doesn't. -- TTFN - Guy From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed May 19 18:00:39 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Trade? Power Mac 8500 for IBM PS/2 model 60/65SX or 80 tower. In-Reply-To: <02b601c43dd5$ed9af3a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040520025640.TGCR9251.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Want to trade my working Power Mac 8500/200 with few goodies in it. 200MHz cpu card, 176MB, 256K cache stick, 4MB vram (all four slots filled), 2.1GB SCSI non-apple rom but formatted & bootable. 2x speed CDROM apple rom. Working. Has A/V personality card. (RCA ports Video and stereo in and out, S-video and one other special AV plug). The PCI slots is waiting to be filled. What I want to trade that Mac for: One PS/2 tower any of PS/2 model 60, 65SX or 80 (16, 20 or 25MHz doesn't matter). What I need go with that tower: Rails for the FH 5.25" HDs or rack to hold two 5.25" HDs, one 1.44MB floppy (can be sick or working) Parts to mount cdrom drive. Hopefully to get but not required: MCA adapter that holds 2.5" laptop HD or MCA to IDE adapter card. Also would like a ESDI MCA card (that one that can support any ESDI not just IBM ESDI drives up to 1GB, I got couple of monster ESDI HDs. Did third-party built memory modules that adapts standard parity SIMMs? Then I would like a pair but I can make do with my pair of 4MB module cards for my loose 80 system board except I have no case or power supply to stuff the parts in. Ebay route I'm not interested. Thanks & Cheers, Wizard PS: I also have most of parts for 90 XP except no case. From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed May 19 22:14:53 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <1085022893.5908.27.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> OK, because I was in a hurry, I forgot to tell the list where I'm at. I'm in San Jose, CA (if that helps). Shipping won't be cheap as even the light items (well, the HP tapes wouldn't be too bad) are reasonably "heavy" (ie 40lbs or so). The Apollo's are probably 60-80, the Symbolics is ~200, The Sparc Server is ~350 and the VAX Vector is ~500. So choose wisely... On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 19:52, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > I need to get rid of the following (it's not in line with what I'm > interested in and it's taking up too much space): > * Sun 4/110 with printer port and 2 SCSI ports > * Sun 4/110 > * Sun Sparc Server 490 (has 3 disks in base) (big) > * 2 HP Apollo > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > * 2 extra color memory boards > * extra 2MW memeory board > * Monitor & keyboard > * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) > * Sun 3/60 > * 2 Sun 3/50 > * 2 Sun Monochrome monitors (hey, they're monitors...heavy) > * Original IBM PC (w 2 1/2 height floppy) > * Original IBM PC (w floppy & HD) > * AT&T 3B2/EXP > * HP-UX tape set (4mm) Rev A.09.05 > * HP-UX Install tape > * HP-UX Runtime 2-user > * HP-UX Runtime Support > * X.25/9000 link > * Focus for HP-UX > * HP9000 Series 700 Customized S/W > * Radio Shack TRS80 Model III (no floppies) > > I want this stuff gone! The whole point of this excersise is to get rid > of this stuff so don't ask for board xyz-abc out of something. I'd > prefer pickup, but if you're not local I'm sure we can work something > out. I haven't tried powering any of this stuff so I'm not sure what > works and what doesn't. -- TTFN - Guy From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 22:30:17 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Trade? Power Mac 8500 for IBM PS/2 model 60/65SX or 80 tower. In-Reply-To: <20040520025640.TGCR9251.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at May 19, 2004 11:00:39 PM Message-ID: <200405200330.i4K3UHVR005821@onyx.spiritone.com> > What I want to trade that Mac for: > > One PS/2 tower any of PS/2 model 60, 65SX or 80 (16, 20 or 25MHz > doesn't matter). What I need go with that tower: Out of curiousity, why? That's a fairly fast Mac, and you're looking for a fairly slow PC. I'm guessing you have a specific use in mind for the PS/2. Zane From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 19 22:34:12 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:41 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <20040520033412.99955.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> --- Guy Sotomayor wrote: > * extra 2MW memeory board > * Monitor & keyboard > * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) Somebody looked for a vax vector desperately years ago. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 22:38:20 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <20040520033412.99955.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> from "SHAUN RIPLEY" at May 19, 2004 08:34:12 PM Message-ID: <200405200338.i4K3cKnR006005@onyx.spiritone.com> > --- Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > * extra 2MW memeory board > > * Monitor & keyboard > > * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) > Somebody looked for a vax vector desperately years > ago. What is a "VAX Vector"? Is it a VAX with something like the old Floating Point Systems vector processor attached (I've got a VAXstation II/GPX that was hooked to such a beast). Zane From allain at panix.com Wed May 19 23:03:00 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: Message-ID: <00d701c43e1f$58351a80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >>> Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, >>> which they aren't. >> Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or >> three places where a person could go and get one of these. > eBay, VCM, my warehouse ;) didn't see one there, didn't see one there, not for sale at present. I still believe that they are scarce, here in 2004 where we live, but agree with your price points 100%. John A. From tomj at wps.com Wed May 19 23:38:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <20040519215826.GA10319@bos7.spole.gov> References: <4695ACD3.414B91C1.0000EF7A@aol.com> <000a01c43da3$5c7e6f50$99100f14@mcothran1> <20040519215826.GA10319@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1085027880.4885.7.camel@fiche.wps.com> ADM3 and ADM3a's were used in all sorts of installatins because they were CHEAP. My first use of one was a "big" Nova system. (Amusing anecdote: we had all ADM3's (upper-case only), did all our editing in NSPEED, DG's version of teco. One day we got a software upgrade or something, had to edit files that came with, and couldn't! nspeed commands basically stopped working... took many hours to figure out that the files contained lower case characters and of course all of our nspeed commands were issued in UPPER CASE (the adm3 displaying abcdefghi... as ABCDEFGHI...) On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 14:58, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 09:15:30AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > I haven't done my homework yet, but I'm sure someone else already knows the > > answer. > > Can these things easily interface to a PDP-11? I don't ever remember seeing > > one in conjunction with any DEC systems. I think they're neat looking, and > > wouldn't mind having one. > > That depends on which DEC world you circulated in... there's been a termcap > entry for the ADM 3A in UNIX for as far back as my experience goes. > > I don't recall seeing them at all in non-university or non-UNIX settings, > though. DEC terminals cost enough that in the notoriously cheap educational > market, people gave serious consideration to other forms of terminals (I > have reciepts from the early-to-mid-1980s for VT100s at around $1,700 each, > which is why Software Results had a mix of DEC terminals and CiTOH terminals, > '101's and '101e's). > > -ethan From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu May 20 00:34:13 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: <200405200053.i4K0pkhl041861@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040520053413.43419.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> >> Both of mine had seriously burned in CRT's; I put in >> new ones I got for about $40 each shipped >Where did you get these. Have details of the swap out? The instructions for CRT replacement (at your own risk, etc etc) and the ROM replacement are linked from http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/adm%2D3a.htm I got the tube(s) from: http://www.cathoderaytubes.com The people were very knowledgeable and helpful; the tubes were less expensive than I thought that they would be-they are very common. But they even had CRT spares for my HP2644A (8008 based terminal-for $250.00! But I (physically) rebuilt that tube myself. The tubes were packed (not too suprisingly) very well. You need to know the P/N and mfg of the CRT (should be a label on it) before you call. My original tubes were made by 2 different manufacturers and were slightly different! ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From JeffreyI at teamtli.com Wed May 19 17:43:32 2004 From: JeffreyI at teamtli.com (Jeffrey Iselin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: ct-600n Message-ID: <7E85C08332F78A45885CF28EE3BB2A7B6CCC39@moyer.telecomlabsinc.com> PLEASE CONTACT ME REGARDING THESE TAPES IF YOU STILL HAVE THEM. Hello, If you are still interested, I have a total of 11 compatible tapes (8 Teac CT-600N and 3 Maxell CS-600XD). All are used and have used labels. As far as I know, they all still work. (I still have the tape drive as well, but have no longer an operating Apple system, so I cannot check these). If you are interested, please let me know. romboc From tomj at wps.com Thu May 20 01:00:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <20040519233429.GD12756@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200405192332.i4JNWihc041008@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040519233429.GD12756@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1085032836.4885.40.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 16:34, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The ADM3 did not perform cursor addressing, which the ADM3A did, making the 3A > > much more useful in many applications - I don't think there would be a termcap > > entry for a 3. Yeah, our nspeed setup had commands pre-loaded in various buffers, one useful macro was (this is wired into my brain at a very low level though I haven't typed the command in 31 years!) ^BB (Control-B B), execute buffer B, which: "erased" the screen (might have been 24 LFs) move edit point back 12 lines print 24 lines move edit point fwd 12 lines (back to original point) eg. centering your work on the screen and showing + and - 12 lines, eg a screenful. I assume everyone knows how teco works... ahem From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu May 20 01:31:12 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <200405200338.i4K3cKnR006005@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200405200338.i4K3cKnR006005@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <1085034672.5908.58.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 20:38, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > --- Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > * extra 2MW memeory board > > > * Monitor & keyboard > > > * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) > > Somebody looked for a vax vector desperately years > > ago. > > What is a "VAX Vector"? Is it a VAX with something like the old Floating > Point Systems vector processor attached (I've got a VAXstation II/GPX that > was hooked to such a beast). It's a VAX where attached to each processor card is another that is a vector floating point unit. Not too dissimilar from what you see today ala MMX, 3D-Now, Altivec, etc. > > Zane -- TTFN - Guy From vp at cs.drexel.edu Thu May 20 03:18:06 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Manual for HP 82928A System Monitor? Message-ID: <200405200818.i4K8I6gv021098@queen.cs.drexel.edu> 82928A System monitor: Provides the necessary hardware to aid in developing and debugging assembly language programs for HP Series 80 Personal Computers. The HP 00085-15007 (or 00087-15007), 82928A and 82929A form a complete set of tools. The 82928A System monitor is described in the HP85 Assembler ROM manual. This manual is currently available on the MoHPC CDROM (http://www.hpmuseum.org) collection (if you are interested in the 85 then purchasing the MpHPC collection should be a priority as it also contains the 85 service manual). Somebody has promised me a scan of the 85 assembler manual, so it should appear shortly in the www.series80.org site as well. Last but certainly not least is John Shadbolt's site (http://www.vintagecomputers.freeserve.co.uk/hp80) **vp From bert at brothom.nl Thu May 20 05:17:35 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Would you be interested in selling your book? References: Message-ID: <40AC85BF.66D78F47@brothom.nl> Rich Sias wrote: > > I am trying to move a Netware v2.2 system to something newer and need a manual > of commands. Does anyone have one ? I figure if the last one for sale on the > newsgroups was 1998 that I might find one here sooner. Yup, I think I have them. Since you posted this a few days back, let me know if you still need them and I'll try to find them. Bert From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu May 20 04:37:48 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: Where are you located? >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Sotomayor >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:52 PM >>> To: cctech@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Equipment disposal >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I need to get rid of the following (it's not in line with >>> what I'm interested in and it's taking up too much space): >>> * Sun 4/110 with printer port and 2 SCSI ports >>> * Sun 4/110 >>> * Sun Sparc Server 490 (has 3 disks in base) (big) >>> * 2 HP Apollo >>> * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) >>> * 2 extra color memory boards >>> * extra 2MW memeory board >>> * Monitor & keyboard >>> * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) >>> * Sun 3/60 >>> * 2 Sun 3/50 >>> * 2 Sun Monochrome monitors (hey, they're monitors...heavy) >>> * Original IBM PC (w 2 1/2 height floppy) >>> * Original IBM PC (w floppy & HD) >>> * AT&T 3B2/EXP >>> * HP-UX tape set (4mm) Rev A.09.05 >>> * HP-UX Install tape >>> * HP-UX Runtime 2-user >>> * HP-UX Runtime Support >>> * X.25/9000 link >>> * Focus for HP-UX >>> * HP9000 Series 700 Customized S/W >>> * Radio Shack TRS80 Model III (no floppies) >>> >>> I want this stuff gone! The whole point of this excersise >>> is to get rid of this stuff so don't ask for board xyz-abc >>> out of something. I'd prefer pickup, but if you're not >>> local I'm sure we can work something out. I haven't tried >>> powering any of this stuff so I'm not sure what works and >>> what doesn't. >>> -- >>> >>> TTFN - Guy >>> From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu May 20 04:41:50 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <1085032836.4885.40.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: >>> >>> I assume everyone knows how teco works... ahem >>> Yup, I am a recovering TECO junkie! From brad at heeltoe.com Thu May 20 05:21:13 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 May 2004 19:52:24 PDT." <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <200405201021.i4KALDM07707@mwave.heeltoe.com> Guy Sotomayor wrote: ... > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > * 2 extra color memory boards > * extra 2MW memeory board > * Monitor & keyboard I'd like these. I'm on the wrong coast, but I may be able to arrange for storage. At the very least I can pay for the shipping of the Monitor, and memory boards. If someone else is severely interested and can use them, I'll defer, but I have several Symbolics machines and between me and the Rhode Island Retro-computer folks we could use the memory and monitor. What city/town are you in ? (I seem to recal Berkeley?) How much do you want for them? -brad Brad Parker Heeltoe Consulting +1-781-483-3101 http://www.heeltoe.com From swperk at earthlink.net Thu May 20 07:48:09 2004 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: <200405200052.i4K0pkhf041861@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000001c43e68$b78c1b70$647ba8c0@hpa320n> Hello all, I sure hope someone from this group can make it there Saturday and pick up some of these machines. I wish I could, but I'm a couple of thousand miles away... I'm very (and I mean *very*) interested in that HP 9820/21 (hint, hint). Regards, Stan >Scanning thru a newsgroup, I happened on this: >http://chicagotest.i8.com/BigSale.html >If you look at the pictures, there are several HP desktop calc/computers >underneath alll that other Stuff... >website says most everything will be in the $10 - 30 range - this coming >Saturday, the 22nd. > >Might be some Rescue Opportunities > >Cheers >John From zmerch at 30below.com Thu May 20 08:50:24 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: OT: Let's Hammer a Spammer! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040520092552.04e88200@mail.30below.com> Guys/Gals, I need your help. Let's put a serious whoopin' on a spammer! I just got 7 spams from a company (more info below) and following is what I sent to the following people in the company (all the email addresses I could find from their website): ElaineS@flagstaffuniforms.com, Jaime@flagstaffuniforms.com, JerrytheB@flagstaffuniforms.com, FredB@flagstaffuniforms.com, Artdept@flagstaffuniforms.com, RonT@flagstaffuniforms.com, richs@flagstaffuniforms.com, The main offender is: richs@flagstaffuniforms.com So I sent this in response (original spam attached): =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Looketyhere, people! I'm a lifetime geek (almost 20 years), and my wife runs an in-home daycare. Why in Deity's Name would I need hospital scrubs? How in the Hades can you say that you're anti-spam when I have absolutely no need for your product and *did not* sign up for your service? I received not one, not two, but *7* of these pieces of crap from your company. Believe me, I will tell all of the medical professionals I know to make sure they do *not* use your company. Please do not use the mailing list you received/purchased ever again... or else. Regards, Roger Merchberger P.S. Here's your filth back to you. >To: Subscribers >FROM: "richard schwerdtmann" >Importance: Normal >Sensitivity: Normal >Subject: Special of the Month >Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:53:12 -0400 >Sender: > >Greetings Flagstaff Customer, > >Check out our new Special of the Month for May: >Pinfeather Size Matching Scrub Sets, available in 6 Colors! >A low price of $17.50! Get yours today! Very Limited Quantity! > >Copy and paste this link: >https://www.flagstaffuniforms.com/specialofthemonth.htm > >Sign up for a FREE catalog and you are automatically entered into our Size >Matching Scrub Set giveaway. (With valid email) >Copy and paste this link: https://www.flagstaffuniforms.com/catalogue.htm > >Be sure to check out the rest of our site for low priced, high quality >Healthcare uniforms! Ordering is always safe through our secure website! > >Thank you for making Flagstaff your healthcare uniform provider! > >Sincerely, > >Flagstaff Staff >http://www.flagstaffuniforms.com > >We are anti-spam!, if you have received this email in error or otherwise >wish to be removed from our mailing list, please send an email with REMOVE >in the subject line to richs@flagstaffuniforms.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= After that, the guy sent me this: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Return-Path: Delivered-To: z@30below.com Received: (qmail 1840 invoked by uid 0); 19 May 2004 18:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.flagstaffuniforms.com) (65.174.169.64) by 0 with SMTP; 19 May 2004 18:56:34 -0000 Received: from richflag [65.174.169.41] by mail.flagstaffuniforms.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id ABBE10100C2; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:47:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c43dd4$40b96730$170aa8c0@flagstaff.local> Reply-To: "richard schwerdtmann" From: "richard schwerdtmann" To: "Roger Merchberger" Subject: Re: Special of the Month Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:05:27 -0400 Organization: Flagstaff Ind. X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 One word........... Remove ....... it works just like everyone else in the world does. We have many daycare employees who where scrubsets it is very common. But some people live with there head in the sand I guess. I WILL OF COUSE REMOVE YOU FROM OUR MAILING LIST Thank you for your understanding in this little matter Richard Schwerdtmann =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *Then* I got 3 more spams!!! I'd like to get everyone I can to send a few (say... 10, like I got, but more is good, too!) mails to all the fine folks at Flagstaff Uniforms... Thanks one and all! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu May 20 09:25:48 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Let's Hammer a Spammer! References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040520092552.04e88200@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000501c43e76$6aa0c280$6402a8c0@home> Seems like this is spam too. Maybe this is exactly what the original spammer wanted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:50 AM Subject: OT: Let's Hammer a Spammer! > Guys/Gals, I need your help. Let's put a serious whoopin' on a spammer! > > I just got 7 spams from a company (more info below) and following is what I > sent to the following people in the company (all the email addresses I > could find from their website): > > ElaineS@flagstaffuniforms.com, Jaime@flagstaffuniforms.com, > JerrytheB@flagstaffuniforms.com, FredB@flagstaffuniforms.com, > Artdept@flagstaffuniforms.com, RonT@flagstaffuniforms.com, > richs@flagstaffuniforms.com, > > The main offender is: richs@flagstaffuniforms.com > > So I sent this in response (original spam attached): > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Looketyhere, people! > > I'm a lifetime geek (almost 20 years), and my wife runs an in-home daycare. > Why in Deity's Name would I need hospital scrubs? > > How in the Hades can you say that you're anti-spam when I have absolutely > no need for your product and *did not* sign up for your service? I received > not one, not two, but *7* of these pieces of crap from your company. > Believe me, I will tell all of the medical professionals I know to make > sure they do *not* use your company. > > Please do not use the mailing list you received/purchased ever again... or > else. > > Regards, > Roger Merchberger > > P.S. Here's your filth back to you. > > >To: Subscribers > >FROM: "richard schwerdtmann" > >Importance: Normal > >Sensitivity: Normal > >Subject: Special of the Month > >Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:53:12 -0400 > >Sender: > > > >Greetings Flagstaff Customer, > > > >Check out our new Special of the Month for May: > >Pinfeather Size Matching Scrub Sets, available in 6 Colors! > >A low price of $17.50! Get yours today! Very Limited Quantity! > > > >Copy and paste this link: > >https://www.flagstaffuniforms.com/specialofthemonth.htm > > > >Sign up for a FREE catalog and you are automatically entered into our Size > >Matching Scrub Set giveaway. (With valid email) > >Copy and paste this link: https://www.flagstaffuniforms.com/catalogue.htm > > > >Be sure to check out the rest of our site for low priced, high quality > >Healthcare uniforms! Ordering is always safe through our secure website! > > > >Thank you for making Flagstaff your healthcare uniform provider! > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Flagstaff Staff > >http://www.flagstaffuniforms.com > > > >We are anti-spam!, if you have received this email in error or otherwise > >wish to be removed from our mailing list, please send an email with REMOVE > >in the subject line to richs@flagstaffuniforms.com > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > After that, the guy sent me this: > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Return-Path: > Delivered-To: z@30below.com > Received: (qmail 1840 invoked by uid 0); 19 May 2004 18:56:34 -0000 > Received: from unknown (HELO mail.flagstaffuniforms.com) (65.174.169.64) > by 0 with SMTP; 19 May 2004 18:56:34 -0000 > Received: from richflag [65.174.169.41] by mail.flagstaffuniforms.com with > ESMTP > (SMTPD32-7.10) id ABBE10100C2; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:47:26 -0400 > Message-ID: <000c01c43dd4$40b96730$170aa8c0@flagstaff.local> > Reply-To: "richard schwerdtmann" > From: "richard schwerdtmann" > To: "Roger Merchberger" > Subject: Re: Special of the Month > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:05:27 -0400 > Organization: Flagstaff Ind. > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 > > One word........... Remove ....... it works just like everyone else in the > world does. We have many daycare employees who where scrubsets it is very > common. But some people live with there head in the sand I guess. > I WILL OF COUSE REMOVE YOU FROM OUR MAILING LIST > Thank you for your understanding in this little matter > Richard Schwerdtmann > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= cut here =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > *Then* I got 3 more spams!!! > > I'd like to get everyone I can to send a few (say... 10, like I got, but > more is good, too!) mails to all the fine folks at Flagstaff Uniforms... > > Thanks one and all! > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." > sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein > zmerch@30below.com | > > From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 20 09:31:50 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: ct-600n Message-ID: >Hello, >If you are still interested, I have a total of 11 compatible tapes (8 >Teac CT-600N and 3 Maxell CS-600XD). All are used and have used labels. > As far as I know, they all still work. (I still have the tape drive as >well, but have no longer an operating Apple system, so I cannot check >these). > >If you are interested, please let me know. I assume this was meant for me since I was looking for these tapes a long while back, so I'll respond. Nope, I'm no longer interested. I've gotten rid of the drive, and the few tapes I had (which didn't work with my drive anyway), have been sent on to someone else that could use them. Thanks anyway. -chris From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu May 20 09:34:16 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? References: <200405200044.RAA12730@floodgap.com> Message-ID: Nintendo seems to base their handhelds on their previous generation handhelds. The original GameBoy was, mostly, a NES with a black-and-white screen. The GBA is, mostly, a SNES. Gameboys are great fun for hacking on. There are open source development kits and languages out, the hardware is *very* well documented, and there are tons of third party expansion and adapter cards. http://gbdk.sourceforge.net/ http://www.devrs.com/gb/ There's the GameBoy Robot: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/gameboy/fl1.gif and the GameBoy Music club: http://www.gameboymusicclub.org/ and a PDA for your GameBoy Color, including, ahem, an "Advanced Phone Dialer" app :) http://home.att.ne.jp/gamma/TeamKNOx/gameboy/gb_pdae.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? > > It's a Z80 processor in there, isn't it? > > AFAIK, yes. > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- The fastest way to fold a map is differently. ------------------------------ > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu May 20 09:38:43 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal References: <200405201021.i4KALDM07707@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: I don't have *any* Symbolics machines, and a guy I work with would probably be REALLY interested in it. He did a ton of Symbolics development (did his PhD in LISP) I'd pay for shipping the whole lot to 48092/MI. If you really want the memory/monitor, I'd defer back to you guys. Much respect for the R.I. people. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Parker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:21 AM Subject: Re: Equipment disposal > > Guy Sotomayor wrote: > ... > > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > > * 2 extra color memory boards > > * extra 2MW memeory board > > * Monitor & keyboard > > I'd like these. I'm on the wrong coast, but I may be able to arrange > for storage. At the very least I can pay for the shipping of the > Monitor, and memory boards. > > If someone else is severely interested and can use them, I'll defer, but > I have several Symbolics machines and between me and the Rhode Island > Retro-computer folks we could use the memory and monitor. > > What city/town are you in ? (I seem to recal Berkeley?) > > How much do you want for them? > > -brad > > Brad Parker > Heeltoe Consulting > +1-781-483-3101 > http://www.heeltoe.com > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 20 09:36:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <00d701c43e1f$58351a80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, John Allain wrote: > >>> Some folks have an idea that these things are scarce, > >>> which they aren't. > > >> Just as a supporting argument you might want to list two or > >> three places where a person could go and get one of these. > > > eBay, VCM, my warehouse ;) > > didn't see one there, didn't see one there, not for sale at present. > I still believe that they are scarce, here in 2004 where we live, > but agree with your price points 100%. Well, there are currently 10-12 available on the list. What more evidence do you need? ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 20 09:43:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: OT: Let's Hammer a Spammer! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040520092552.04e88200@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Guys/Gals, I need your help. Let's put a serious whoopin' on a spammer! > > I just got 7 spams from a company (more info below) and following is what I > sent to the following people in the company (all the email addresses I > could find from their website): Hey, they've got an 800 number. I could sic the Spaminator on them... >:D -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 20 09:46:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Jason McBrien wrote: > There's the GameBoy Robot: > http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/gameboy/fl1.gif That's cool! > and the GameBoy Music club: > http://www.gameboymusicclub.org/ That's even cooler! > and a PDA for your GameBoy Color, including, ahem, an "Advanced Phone > Dialer" app :) > http://home.att.ne.jp/gamma/TeamKNOx/gameboy/gb_pdae.html And just when you thought it couldn't get any cooler than the above two cooleties, THIS is WAY DAMN COOL!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 20 10:08:25 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: from Jason McBrien at "May 20, 4 10:34:16 am" Message-ID: <200405201508.IAA15918@floodgap.com> > Nintendo seems to base their handhelds on their previous generation > handhelds. The original GameBoy was, mostly, a NES with a black-and-white > screen. The GBA is, mostly, a SNES. I dunno if I'd go this far, especially w/r/t the processor and video: obviously the video pipelines and coppers are radically different, and the NES is a 6502 variant (N2A03) versus the Z80 of the GB, and the SNES is a 65816. There are some conceptual similarities between the GB and the NES, and the GBA and the SNES, but I'm not sure if I'd call them architecturally similar as well. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Sometimes Dilbert is so true, it's scary. -- Mike Jacobs ------------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 20 10:18:33 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <200405201508.IAA15918@floodgap.com> from Cameron Kaiser at "May 20, 4 08:08:25 am" Message-ID: <200405201518.IAA14572@floodgap.com> > > Nintendo seems to base their handhelds on their previous generation > > handhelds. The original GameBoy was, mostly, a NES with a black-and-white > > screen. The GBA is, mostly, a SNES. > > I dunno if I'd go this far, especially w/r/t the processor and video: > obviously the video pipelines and coppers are radically different, and the > NES is a 6502 variant (N2A03) versus the Z80 of the GB, and the SNES is a > 65816. There are some conceptual similarities between the GB and the NES, > and the GBA and the SNES, but I'm not sure if I'd call them architecturally > similar as well. ... although I noticed what you said was previous generation "handhelds" after I reread the message, and that *is* true; the GBC is a faster GB with a custom colour video system, extra memory and a couple of other hardware goodies, and the GBA basically takes the easy way out and carries a GBC inside of it for backwards compatibility. Compared to a GBC, though, the GBA is more revolution than evolution. Besides the jump from Z80 to ARM, there's a nice video copper with some neat layering tricks and hardware scaling/rotation. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Neckties strangle clear thinking. -- Lin Yutang ---------------------------- From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 20 11:03:54 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <200405201607.MAA29404@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > * 2 extra color memory boards > * extra 2MW memeory board > * Monitor & keyboard I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. > * 2 Sun Monochrome monitors (hey, they're monitors...heavy) Are they 1152x900 or 1600x1280? My one 1600x1280 monitor (my principal display for years) finally died some time back and I quite miss it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 20 11:13:45 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines In-Reply-To: <200405201607.MAA29404@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: Hi, > > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > > * 2 extra color memory boards > > * extra 2MW memeory board > > * Monitor & keyboard > > I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself > either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately > it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP machine "works" , or gets programmed. Guess they're from before my time... heeeelp !? --f From dan at ekoan.com Thu May 20 11:36:58 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> At 02:04 PM 5/19/04, you wrote: >Another year and another missed Hamvention. Did anyone go? How was it? What >did you pick up? Friday weather was pretty good. Classic computer-wise I picked up a Heathkit ET-3400 with the Memory I/O expansion, along with all the manuals. Got a Heathkit EPROM programmer with one module (I saw the other one that Roger mentioned but thought it was too expensive). From the same seller I also got a Tandy Color Computer EDTASM cartridge and a 16K memory module for a Timex-Sinclair. I bought a Micro PDP-11 and borrowed the seller's hand-truck to get it out to my car. Right now it's in my garage -- I have no documentation and haven't had time yet to check it out. I bought four BCC52x single-board computers, with manuals and interface documentation. These use the 8052 BASIC language processor discussed on this list recently. I hefted a Heathkit H-47 eight-inch drive housing (no drives) back to the car. Quite heavy. I bought a TRS-80 Pocket Computer in a case with a photocopied manual, along with two handheld electronic games (Tandy Cycle Race and Tandy Championship Baseball). Also picked up an HP-35 calculator and AC adapter. Later I bought an HP-41C and 82104A card reader, both in the original boxes with all the manuals, along with an HP-28 and manuals. I also bought a whole bunch of Texas Instruments calculator repair parts, which happened to include a few TIL-311 LED displays. I met fellow list-member Dan Cohoe, who had a truck full of HP equipment (mostly 64000 stuff). Very nice guy, except that he's taking all the old HP gear up to Canada! :-) Saturday was mostly rain, but I did get a Hayes Micromodem II card for the Apple, as well as some non-computer test equipment and manuals. Sellers were motivated to drop prices since there were few buyers out and many of them decided to leave early. Sunday was much better, weather-wise. I bought two HP 5036A microprocessor learning systems (the ones in the Samsonite cases). I got an HP-85 and a number of boxed ROM module accessories from an ex-HP employee, as well as some interfaces (HP-IB and serial). He also gave an an HP NetBeamIR box that provides network connectivity via infrared links. One popular sport on Sunday is trashbin scrounging. Sellers will throw out or leave behind equipment and parts that they weren't able to sell, so many folks make the rounds searching through trash piles. I managed to find a new-in-the-box AOR WX-2000 weather fax receiver, some Apple II cards (nothing too exciting, just serial and disk interfaces), an ATI 3D Rage video card, an AMD AM2960 evaluation kit from 1984, and a complete Laplink package with cables, manuals and software. As others have said, the amount of classic computer equipment at Dayton seems to be dwindling year by year. Occasionally there are interesting items (the Micro PDP-11, for instance), but you have to dig to find them. This posting is probably too long already, but I'll be happy to provide more details off-line for anyone who's interested. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu May 20 11:41:00 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines References: Message-ID: A "Lisp Machine" is a specialized computer, mostly made in the 80's, that ran, er, LISP. LISP didn't run well on the hardware of the time because of the relatively odd way it worked, especially with memory mangement and garbage collection. They ran a special OS that was written in and ran LISP, and was pervasive in that every module/subroutine you wrote was from then on available to all the programs you wrote, it (sort of) became part of the OS. Once you wrote a preferences routine, you wouldn't have to write it again, all your apps could use it. The two big names were Texas Instruments and Symbolics, which produced very high-tech, VERY expensive machines at the time. Later, when Moore's law caught up with them, they started making plug-in boards for the Mac, the MacIvory from Symbolics and the Explorer from TI. My friend at work used to work for a company that made mechanical modelling software for Symbolics. When you sold the app, the customer bought the Symbolics with the image of the whole software suite already installed. The closest thing I know of to running a Symbolics machine that you could try for free is Squeak (http://www.squeak.org/) which is a Smalltalk operating environment. True object-orientated OSes are fun! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:13 PM Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines > Hi, > > > > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > > > * 2 extra color memory boards > > > * extra 2MW memeory board > > > * Monitor & keyboard > > > > I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself > > either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately > > it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. > > OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP > machine "works" , or gets programmed. Guess they're from before my > time... heeeelp !? > > --f > > From aek at spies.com Thu May 20 11:48:29 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines Message-ID: <200405201648.i4KGmTQp021278@spies.com> > I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself > either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately > it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP machine "works" , or gets programmed. Guess they're from before my time... heeeelp !? === The short answer is Lisp Machines were microcoded computers optimized for executing Lisp. There were several variants, the 'east coast' ones developed from the MIT CADR, and the 'west coast' ones based on Xerox D Machine. There is a lot of information on the web about them MIT CADR LMI Lisp Machine Symbolics LM-1 TI Explorer LMI Lambda Symbolics 36xx TI Explorer II / MicroExplorer Interlisp on PDP10s Interlisp-D on Xerox 1100,1132,1108/9,1186 Xerox Lisp (Common Lisp from Lyric release through various Medley releases) Envos (spinoff from Xerox) Venue From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu May 20 12:23:06 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal Message-ID: <0405201723.AA21401@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Zane H. Healy wrote: > What is a "VAX Vector"? VAX 6400 and 6500 systems support optional vector processors implementing the vector extensions to VAX Architecture defined in VARM 2nd ed. I'm salivating at that machine too, but I have nowhere near the room for it. And he said he wouldn't give just the boards. (If I had VAXBI and XMI boards, perhaps I could find a smaller backplane / card cage unit to house them than that huge VAX 6000 cabinet. I'm pretty sure that standard VAXBI card cages, like used in VAX 8200, are just simple 19" rackmount units no bigger than a high-end rackmount MicroVAX, and it is rumored that there once existed an XMI backplane / card cage unit of this form factor as well.) MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 20 12:25:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <0405201723.AA21401@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I'm salivating at that machine too, but I have nowhere near the room for it. > And he said he wouldn't give just the boards. (If I had VAXBI and XMI boards, > perhaps I could find a smaller backplane / card cage unit to house them than > that huge VAX 6000 cabinet. I'm pretty sure that standard VAXBI card cages, > like used in VAX 8200, are just simple 19" rackmount units no bigger than a > high-end rackmount MicroVAX, and it is rumored that there once existed an XMI > backplane / card cage unit of this form factor as well.) It is the "small cabinet" version, just so you know, not the 30" wide thing. --f From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 20 11:44:20 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405201730.NAA29983@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [quoting order fixed -dM] >>>> * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) >>> I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to >>> myself either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. >> OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP >> machine "works" , or gets programmed. > A "Lisp Machine" is a specialized computer, mostly made in the 80's, > that ran, er, LISP. :-) Yes indeed. And in the late '80s and early '90s I had the pleasure of using some Lisp Machines (from Symbolics). It's a beautiful environment, if you can get your head around Lisp, with the best object-oriented programming environment I have had the luck to use (admittedly, Smalltalk is not among that set, so I can't comment on how it compares). Also, one of the Symbolics keyboards was, to me, the best keyboard I have ever used. All in all, a nice machine. As I said, I'd love to get it...but. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From cfandt at netsync.net Thu May 20 12:38:20 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Attention Chicago Folks: Vintage Test Equipment Sale - Chicago Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040520131726.02723930@pop3.norton.antivirus> Found this big sale mentioned on one of my ham radio-related email lists. Check out the pictures and prices! Condition of stuff may not be great, but anyway . . . Saturday May 22, 2004 from 9 AM to 2 PM Details and map at http://chicagotest.i8.com/BigSale.html Saw pictured at least one HP 9825, maybe a 9810, a Topaz "Ultra Isolator", a couple of 1611 logic analyzers, plotters, etc. along with a bunch of other nice, juicy early radio test gear within my interest. Wonder if there's any DEC or DG items in there nobody recognized to list or even a Tektronix TEK 30 . . . Wish I was nearby, dang it! Please let us know if anybody went to the sale and give us a report. -Chris F. NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Thu May 20 12:43:30 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Free Tektronix 545B Oscilloscope Message-ID: circa 1965, 1966. (http://www.thevalvepage.com/testeq/tek/545b/545b.htm) Not sure if it is working or not. Can be picked up in Tewksbury MA USA. _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ From brad at heeltoe.com Thu May 20 12:45:45 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 May 2004 18:13:45 +0200." Message-ID: <200405201745.i4KHjj411605@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: >Hi, > >> > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) >> > * 2 extra color memory boards >> > * extra 2MW memeory board >> > * Monitor & keyboard >> >> I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself >> either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately >> it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. > >OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP >machine "works" , or gets programmed. Guess they're from before my >time... heeeelp !? oh, don't get me be *started*! :-) there are/where many different lisp machines. On the surface, they were basically all specialized microcoded cpu's which were built to run lisp. Almost all had high resolution b&w displays, mice and large keyboards. Disks and ethernet also. In some sense they where the first "single user workstation". The first machines came from MIT - the CONS and CADR. Later LMI and Symbolics made commericial machines (TI later took over some of LMI's machines). Symbolics went the furthest, reducing the machine to a VLSI cpu which was reasonably quick for it's day (the 'ivory'). The machine in question, a 3650 is a 36 bit microcoded cpu. It has a "front end processor" (a 68000) which is smart enough to initialize the console and boot the microcode from the disk (mostly likely a giant 14" SMD disk, approx 200-400mbytes in size). These machines revolve around a lisp compiler, which reduces the lisp code to macroinstructions. The microcode runs the macroinstructions. They are (on the 36xx) 18 bits wide, so two macroinstructions per 36 bit word. The macroinstruction are close to 1-to-1 for many lisp instructions. There are a *large* number of instructions. Risc this is not. Once the microcode is loaded the FEP will load a "world", which is a essentially off the compiled lisp code need to get going. It then fires up the microcode and off you go. (theses are also called "bands" on other machines). There is a hierarchical file system, and processes, but the way it all works is not like unix. You compile lisp code and it gets loaded into your world. Your world just grows and grows, making heavy use of virtual memory. Everything is there when you need it (and even if you don't need it :-) You can look at everything and check out the source for everything. Don't like it? change it. I'm only scratching the surface. The hardware has many many features which make lisp work better. Each data item is 'tagged' with a 4-8 bit tag which says what type of data it is. So, a function can say "hey, I wanted an integer and you passed me a list". Also, the memory has magic "invisible pointers" which allow for some amount of transparent indirection/virtualization. And lots of support for garbage collection which I won't go into. It's a truely wonderful development machine. You can poke an object and ask what it is and where is came from and pop up the source code. The editor is (essentially) emacs. The network code is very, very smart. An easy to use window system. Very little modality. Crisp b&w display. Extremly active mouse. Command line completion. you name it. And it's all lisp. Even the microcode and PAL's where done in lisp. The PAL code is pretty cool - a nice use of symbolic computing. At the time I think I was using PALASM. Wish I'd had a lisp machine :-) I'll make some quick snaps of my 3640 so you can get an idea. It's basically the size of a small refrigerator. There is a backplane with very large (like 2' x 2') cards packed with TTL logic. I think my machine has about 5 Mwords of memory (drams where small then :-). There are some very cool movies on the web showing the UI in action. I think this works http://lispm.dyndns.org:8000/ Some folks (including myself) are working on various projects to run microcode and macrocode of various lisp machines. The goal is to run the environment on a pc. Nothing yet, but someday... Also, you can buy a commericial emulator for the Symbolics machine which runs on an Alpha. I believe it cost $18k (don't ask me why it's so expensive). There are rumors of one coming out for the G4 (another 64 bit machine). -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu May 20 12:46:46 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal Message-ID: <0405201746.AA21580@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > It is the "small cabinet" version, just so you know, not the 30" wide > thing. Really?? So it *is* the thing I've been looking for, XMI plus possible VAXBI in standard 19" rackmount units mounted in a rack? Well, then again I don't have room for or ability to transport a full 19" rack either... But if the VAX system per se is not the rack but the rackmount units in it, is there perchance a way you could let me have those?? I want a VAXBI/XMI machine sooooo bad! Just obtained a copy of the VAXBI spec a couple months ago and just dying to work with some real HW. But have no room for a rack. The best I can do is run rackmount units on the bedroom floor instead of a rack. (What do you do when you just can't afford a real machine room? Use a bedroom instead.) MS From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu May 20 12:49:48 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 May 2004 18:13:45 +0200." Message-ID: <200405201749.SAA08347@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Fred N. van Kempen" said: > Hi, > > > > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > > > * 2 extra color memory boards > > > * extra 2MW memeory board > > > * Monitor & keyboard > > > > I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself > > either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately > > it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. > > OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP > machine "works" , or gets programmed. Guess they're from before my > time... heeeelp !? > There's some info at: http://www.abstractscience.freeserve.co.uk/symbolics/ -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 20 12:53:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Dan Veeneman wrote: > As others have said, the amount of classic computer equipment at > Dayton seems to be dwindling year by year. Occasionally there are > interesting items (the Micro PDP-11, for instance), but you have to > dig to find them. I think it depends on how good you are at looking or perhaps what you're interested in looking for. Your report varies greatly from the other report that got posted. Your report makes it seem like the Dayton Hamvention is still a good place to vintage computer crap. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu May 20 12:56:29 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal Message-ID: <0405201756.AA21612@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Let me also add that I'll be in the Bay Area on Memorial Day weekend (attending Conspiracy Con 2004 www.conspiracycon.com), so if the stuff is in San Jose as I've heard mentioned and there is something that would be takable for me and not already spoken for, then maybe I could take some. (Assuming it's something that can be fit in the baggage space under the Greyhound bus I'll be riding, or can be disassembled down to that size. Obviously a 19" rack wouldn't go, but I think a rackmountable *unit* would be OK.) MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 20 12:53:56 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <0405201746.AA21580@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Really?? So it *is* the thing I've been looking for, XMI plus possible VAXBI > in standard 19" rackmount units mounted in a rack? Yep. One rack, about 19" ("plus a bit") wide. See my off-list message. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From dan at ekoan.com Thu May 20 13:21:36 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520140616.06a83e10@enigma> At 01:53 PM 5/20/04, you wrote: >I think it depends on how good you are at looking or perhaps what you're >interested in looking for. Your report varies greatly from the other >report that got posted. As Ethan, Joe, and others on this list have emphasized, you've got to show up early to ham fests. The bulk of my purchases were on Friday (the first day of the show) and mostly in the morning. I think Roger arrived much later. I have also made friends with some of the vendors, so by now they know what I'm looking for and will hang on to things for me. (For instance, that's how I got an early model of the HP 5036A with the ROM in a ZIF socket last year and the HP Series 80 stuff this year.) I guess my point is that the days of having lots of vintage DEC, DG and other gear moving through Dayton are gone. The show itself is also shrinking -- remember that it's mainly a ham radio event, and the ranks of amateur radio operators are also shrinking. Attendance these days isn't nearly what it was even a few years ago. Also, a number of dealers have stopped coming and do much of their selling on-line. The weather forecast didn't help this year, either. >Your report makes it seem like the Dayton >Hamvention is still a good place to vintage computer crap. Obviously the best way to build a great vintage computer collection is to hook up with an electronic recycling organization in a technology-driven part of the country. :-) Cheers, Dan From zmerch at 30below.com Thu May 20 13:21:06 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040520141853.04c18e68@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >On Thu, 20 May 2004, Dan Veeneman wrote: > > > As others have said, the amount of classic computer equipment at > > Dayton seems to be dwindling year by year. Occasionally there are > > interesting items (the Micro PDP-11, for instance), but you have to > > dig to find them. > >I think it depends on how good you are at looking or perhaps what you're >interested in looking for. Your report varies greatly from the other >report that got posted. Your report makes it seem like the Dayton >Hamvention is still a good place to vintage computer crap. You *have* to get there early... I've heard that before, and it sure seems to hold true in my experience... And dangit, I would have *loved* to have snagged the expansion board for the Heathkit 3400 trainer... Now I know to take Thursday off next year, too... if there is a next year, that is. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From allain at panix.com Thu May 20 12:25:54 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K References: <200405200044.RAA12730@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <00ad01c43e8f$86a93ca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I've been having fun working up this configuration, thanks to Chris and a local netBSD company. The onCD documentation for installing the OS was a little spotty, It's taken a bunch of workarounds to get it this point: O/S loaded and booting which I can make public if anybody wants. It threatens to be entirely enjoyable experience, if it works reliably, which it isn't at current. I get random segmentation and other faults during medium level of challenge commands like df,du, and pstat. I'm thinking there's three possibilities right now: (1) mis-configured swap space, (2) feeble SCSI driver + marginal SCSI drive specs, (3) bad memory. There could be another cause; I don't know. #1 seems most likely since all I've done is create the swap partition, no config changes were made, but the /etc/fstab at least looks OK to me. #2 has been hinted at by some documentation, but the disk load went without hiccup. #3 hasn't been seen within the MacOS (7.5.1) but I don't know any serious tests for it. If anyone is dealing with BSD right and wants to comment, be my guest. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 20 13:36:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520140616.06a83e10@enigma> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Dan Veeneman wrote: > Obviously the best way to build a great vintage computer collection > is to hook up with an electronic recycling organization in a > technology-driven part of the country. :-) Yeah, that helps :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 20 13:42:42 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K Message-ID: >I'm thinking there's three possibilities right now: (1) mis-configured >swap space, (2) feeble SCSI driver + marginal SCSI drive specs, >(3) bad memory. There could be another cause; I don't know. >#1 seems most likely since all I've done is create the swap partition, >no config changes were made, but the /etc/fstab at least looks OK to me. >#2 has been hinted at by some documentation, but the disk load >went without hiccup. >#3 hasn't been seen within the MacOS (7.5.1) but I don't know any >serious tests for it. I'm certainly no BSD expert. But two issues come to mind. 1: I know there is an alternate SCSI setup for some drives. The default one doesn't work with all drives. I've only ever used the default and never had a problem, so I don't know what would indicate if you need the alternate setup. 2: Could any of this be due to a lack of an FPU? I *think* the Mac I gave you (if you are still on the same one we last talked about) I left with an LC040 in it. (that's the stock for the 575). I know netBSD prefers an FPU. I also know there is a software FPU patch that can be loaded to run on machines with the LC040 chip. I think Cameron may be able to give you better hints, he's got far more experience then I do (and has helped me a number of times) -chris From medavidson at mac.com Thu May 20 13:59:26 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:42 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: I'd love the Symbolics.... PLEASE! I'm in San Jose as well, so moving it won't be an issue! I'd also love the 3B2 if it's still available! Mark Davidson medavidson@mac.com On May 19, 2004, at 7:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > Hi, > > I need to get rid of the following (it's not in line with what I'm > interested in and it's taking up too much space): > * Sun 4/110 with printer port and 2 SCSI ports > * Sun 4/110 > * Sun Sparc Server 490 (has 3 disks in base) (big) > * 2 HP Apollo > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > * 2 extra color memory boards > * extra 2MW memeory board > * Monitor & keyboard > * VAX Vector 6000-520 (big) > * Sun 3/60 > * 2 Sun 3/50 > * 2 Sun Monochrome monitors (hey, they're monitors...heavy) > * Original IBM PC (w 2 1/2 height floppy) > * Original IBM PC (w floppy & HD) > * AT&T 3B2/EXP > * HP-UX tape set (4mm) Rev A.09.05 > * HP-UX Install tape > * HP-UX Runtime 2-user > * HP-UX Runtime Support > * X.25/9000 link > * Focus for HP-UX > * HP9000 Series 700 Customized S/W > * Radio Shack TRS80 Model III (no floppies) > > I want this stuff gone! The whole point of this excersise is to get > rid > of this stuff so don't ask for board xyz-abc out of something. I'd > prefer pickup, but if you're not local I'm sure we can work something > out. I haven't tried powering any of this stuff so I'm not sure what > works and what doesn't. > -- > > TTFN - Guy > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu May 20 14:07:45 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Help with APPLE //C In-Reply-To: <7D28C13E-A9C4-11D8-925D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040520120456.02f65a90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 11:43 AM 5/19/04 -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: >My brother just got an apple //C, but it came without power supply.. > >I heard there was "cigarette lighter" adapter for the Apple IIC, Will the >Apple IIC run on 12V? (the case says 15V 1.2Amps) > >Does anyone know where we can get a power supply? The power supply is commonly called, "The Brick" due to size and weight, use a non Apple power supply at your peril. I have some, but I am terrible right now about getting stuff shipped. From medavidson at mac.com Thu May 20 14:03:20 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <0405201746.AA21580@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405201746.AA21580@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <5BDB6EDE-AA90-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> On May 20, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > >> It is the "small cabinet" version, just so you know, not the 30" wide >> thing. > > Really?? So it *is* the thing I've been looking for, XMI plus > possible VAXBI > in standard 19" rackmount units mounted in a rack? > I replied on another list, but I'll follow up here... I'm in the San Jose area and would love to rescue some of this stuff, ESPECIALLY the Symbolics. I had one years ago and had to give it up because of lack of room... but now I have a house so I can put it anywhere I like. *grin* Mark Davidson From bear at typewritten.org Thu May 20 14:32:51 2004 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Equipment disposal In-Reply-To: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1085021544.5908.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <7BFA1C9E-AA94-11D8-BED1-000A956C4CA0@typewritten.org> On May 19, 2004, at 7:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) > * 2 extra color memory boards > * extra 2MW memeory board > * Monitor & keyboard > Guy; I'm interested. I could use some spares to complete my 3650. Do you have the mouse, as well? I'll be making a couple of trips to the Bay Area this summer; the first one will be toward the end of June. I could easily be convinced to spring for freight if our schedules are incompatible. FWIW I'm in Seattle. ok bear From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 20 14:52:02 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K In-Reply-To: <00ad01c43e8f$86a93ca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "May 20, 4 01:25:54 pm" Message-ID: <200405201952.MAA07076@floodgap.com> > I've been having fun working up this configuration, > thanks to Chris and a local netBSD company. > > The onCD documentation for installing the OS was a little spotty, > It's taken a bunch of workarounds to get it this point: O/S loaded > and booting which I can make public if anybody wants. > > It threatens to be entirely enjoyable experience, if it works reliably, > which it isn't at current. I get random segmentation and other faults > during medium level of challenge commands like df,du, and pstat. This sounds an awful lot like an FPU-less system running an FPU kernel. Certain classes of LC040s do not properly allow emulation of F-line traps and the result is exactly what you're describing; random faults once the machine boots up. What version of NetBSD and what Mac and specs? > #3 hasn't been seen within the MacOS (7.5.1) but I don't know any > serious tests for it. If it works okay in MacOS, but not NetBSD, that situation is my #1 suspect. I run NetBSD 1.5.3 on a IIci (mostly for reasons of laziness) and NetBSD 1.6.2 on a LCIII that was turned into a Q605 with a mo'bo' swap (and then upgraded to a true 68040 @ 25MHz), as well as NetBSD/macppc on a 7300 with a G3/500, so I've got plenty of "MacBSD" boxes here. All of them are production, and my IIci has had literally years of uptime. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Bowl angry. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 20 14:56:33 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K In-Reply-To: from chris at "May 20, 4 02:42:42 pm" Message-ID: <200405201956.MAA14042@floodgap.com> > I'm certainly no BSD expert. But two issues come to mind. 1: I know there > is an alternate SCSI setup for some drives. The default one doesn't work > with all drives. I've only ever used the default and never had a problem, > so I don't know what would indicate if you need the alternate setup. I think you're referring to where you have to hand-install the packages for drives >1GB in size due to an Installer fault. There is a way to do this manually (because when I first built and installed 1.4.2 way back when on my IIci, I had to do this on the 2GB main drive), but sysinst with 1.6.2 is so good and so seamless that you should just jump to 1.6.2 and use the sysinst kernel to do the installation. It's very, very easy. Drag the MacOS-based Installer to the trash and fergeddaboudit. > 2: Could any of this be due to a lack of an FPU? I *think* the Mac I gave > you (if you are still on the same one we last talked about) I left with > an LC040 in it. (that's the stock for the 575). I know netBSD prefers an > FPU. I also know there is a software FPU patch that can be loaded to run > on machines with the LC040 chip. If you're referring to SoftwareFPU, this only works in MacOS, and only then because of how Apple implements SANE. There is an experimental 2.0 -msoft-float kernel and people have reported good success with it, but my recommendation has always been that if you can upgrade the machine to a full '040, just do it and use the stock kernel. I'd reserve -msoft-float only for machines where this is not possible, like the Blackbird PowerBooks, for example. > I think Cameron may be able to give you better hints, he's got far more > experience then I do (and has helped me a number of times) *tips hat* ;) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Geek code: GMDd-s++:C++U++++P+++L-E---W++N++o-w---M++VPS-PE++PGPt+tv--hr* -- From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 20 15:09:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines In-Reply-To: <200405201730.NAA29983@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: Thanks for the info, all, now at least I know what these are. :) --f From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu May 20 17:22:54 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database In-Reply-To: <200405131706.i4DH5uhf080726@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405131706.i4DH5uhf080726@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 13.05.2004: >From: "Ashley Carder" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:51 PM >Subject: IDEA - Collector interest database > > >Has anyone on here ever thought about putting up a site that >documents the collector interest or areas of specialty for the >folks who visit here? > >If this sounds like a good idea, I'll create a site and host it. > >It could have things like a "wish list", "current inventory", >"items for trade/sale", etc. > >I know some of this type of thing exists elsewhere, such as >on Sellam's VCM site, but I haven't seen a place where I can >go to find individuals who have specific computers, parts, wants, >etc. > >Other ideas and opinions are welcome. If this kind of thing >already exists, just enlighten me as to where it is located. > >Ashley Hi, I can point you to the following drectory of retro-computing collectors in Germany. It's very simple but has all required data in one interface. http://dafc.rauch-grapengeter.de/ sorry, its all german, but you'll get the idea You will find the following data: -Name, Email (spam-treated), Collection-focus -Geographic position, (town + zip) handy to know who to ask if suddenly a nice machine comes up at the other side of the country that must be collected whitin xx days (or hours...) -Current inventory (as far as one likes to publish it) -Items for trade / sale, items sought after. -Machines cross reference with some photoos -Internal area, (passworded) there are e.g. phonenumbers and Ebay-aliasses to avoid useless competition between collectors. -Linklist -contactform http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm is another site, but I will never list myself there due to the open presentation of the email-adresses, which just asks to be captured by spam-robots. So if you want to setup something, go head! I think it's useful. However, you may considder to seek some cooperation with one of the big vintage sites. Starting completely from zero off a new domain is not easey afterall. Have a nice day, Frank -- Die max. Eintauchzeit von Keksen in Kaffe berechnet man so: t = ( 4L2 * h ) / ( D * g ) L: halbe Keksdicke h: Viskosit?t der Fl?ssigkeit D: Keks-Porengr??e g: Oberfl?chenspannung From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 20 15:27:10 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K Message-ID: >I think you're referring to where you have to hand-install the packages for >drives >1GB in size due to an Installer fault. There is a way to do this >manually (because when I first built and installed 1.4.2 way back when on my >IIci, I had to do this on the 2GB main drive), but sysinst with 1.6.2 is so >good and so seamless that you should just jump to 1.6.2 and use the sysinst >kernel to do the installation. It's very, very easy. Drag the MacOS-based >Installer to the trash and fergeddaboudit. No, there is a different piece of the inital install. I think it is for certain Quantum drives. I've never had to use it, so I didn't pay too much attention to when it is needed. >If you're referring to SoftwareFPU, this only works in MacOS, and only then >because of how Apple implements SANE. I don't know what I'm referring to for FPU emulation. I just know I've seen messages about it pass thru the mac68k email list. Since I don't have any machines runing NetBSD that don't have an FPU, I've never paid much attention. I thought it was something on the netBSD side, but it could be a MacOS side thing for all I know. >There is an experimental 2.0 -msoft-float kernel and people have reported >good success with it, but my recommendation has always been that if you can >upgrade the machine to a full '040, just do it and use the stock kernel. >I'd reserve -msoft-float only for machines where this is not possible, like >the Blackbird PowerBooks, for example. Yup, and thus why when I was tossing some broken macs with full 040 chips, I pulled the chips to swap into things like my Centris 610's and 650's. That way, I can use them for mac68k later and not have any FPU headaches. I'm sure I still have a chip or two kicking around, so all John has to do is ask, and I'll be happy to send him one to swap into his 575 (if he is still using the 575 and in fact needs one. I can't be sure that I didn't do the swap before giving him the machine, but I don't think I did, because I don't think I knew he was going to use it for NetBSD). -chris From spectre at floodgap.com Thu May 20 15:52:47 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K In-Reply-To: from chris at "May 20, 4 04:27:10 pm" Message-ID: <200405202052.NAA13838@floodgap.com> > No, there is a different piece of the inital install. I think it is for > certain Quantum drives. I've never had to use it, so I didn't pay too > much attention to when it is needed. Ohhhh -- you mean the GENERICSBC kernel. This is a polled SCSI kernel and has somewhat poorer performance, and should be used if there's evidence of SCSI issues or known filesystem damage (i.e., it would not be first on my list to use). The Quantum connection is that it seems (seemed? haven't heard much on this bug in ages) to happen more on certain Quantum drives, but it doesn't occur on all models, nor does it necessarily occur on the affected ones, and nor is it specifically limited to Quantum drives. Again, I haven't heard much about this bug for a very long time. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- I know we can make it together! -- "Shogo" --------------------------------- From allain at panix.com Thu May 20 16:09:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K References: Message-ID: <072901c43eae$c098fda0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I'm sure I still have a chip or two kicking around, so all John has > to do is ask, and I'll be happy to send him one to swap into his > 575 (if he is still using the 575 and in fact needs one. The Mac's current chip is a XC68LC040RC33B. I have a spare chip here, a XC68040HRC25M which looks the wrong speed. Yup, count me in. Thank-You. John A. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 20 16:09:08 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> Message-ID: <20040520210908.GA4657@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 12:36:58PM -0400, Dan Veeneman wrote: > Friday weather was pretty good. Classic computer-wise I picked up > a Heathkit ET-3400 with the Memory I/O expansion, along with all > the manuals. I've been keeping my eye out for one of these - I missed the one that recently went on ePay for $41 because of satellite problems. :-( > I bought a Micro PDP-11 and borrowed the seller's hand-truck to > get it out to my car. Right now it's in my garage -- I have no > documentation and haven't had time yet to check it out. Wow! I haven't seen one of those at Dayton in a long time. I'd be curious what model. > I hefted a Heathkit H-47 eight-inch drive housing (no drives) back > to the car. Quite heavy. Do you have the Heathkit Qbus card to go with it or just the drives? It's not electrically RX01 compatible, but with the card, it is logically compatible (I have one at home that I was debugging when I left). > I also bought a whole bunch of Texas Instruments calculator repair > parts, which happened to include a few TIL-311 LED displays. Nice. Hopefully they didn't cost more than a couple of bucks each. > I met fellow list-member Dan Cohoe, who had a truck full of HP > equipment (mostly 64000 stuff). Very nice guy, except that he's > taking all the old HP gear up to Canada! :-) He'll do that! :-) He also comes down to Northern Ohio to raid for DEC equipment. We've traded stuff before, when he comes through. > Saturday was mostly rain, but I did get a Hayes Micromodem II > card for the Apple, as well as some non-computer test equipment > and manuals. Sellers were motivated to drop prices since there were > few buyers out and many of them decided to leave early. A very typical pattern. What gets hard is cruising the aisles when everything is covered because it _might_ rain again. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -63.1 F (-52.8 C) Windchill -97.8 F (-72.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.1 kts Grid 014 Barometer 679.6 mb (10639. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From zmerch at 30below.com Thu May 20 16:37:06 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <20040520210908.GA4657@bos7.spole.gov> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040520173340.0497ddd8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 12:36:58PM -0400, Dan Veeneman wrote: > > Friday weather was pretty good. Classic computer-wise I picked up > > a Heathkit ET-3400 with the Memory I/O expansion, along with all > > the manuals. > >I've been keeping my eye out for one of these - I missed the one >that recently went on ePay for $41 because of satellite problems. :-( I missed it because of Dayton problems -- no internet connection... :-/ > > I met fellow list-member Dan Cohoe, who had a truck full of HP > > equipment (mostly 64000 stuff). Very nice guy, except that he's > > taking all the old HP gear up to Canada! :-) > >He'll do that! :-) *sniff* still been looking (altho not too hard) for enuf stuff to get mine working... which now has a broken keyboard. *sniff* >A very typical pattern. What gets hard is cruising the aisles when >everything is covered because it _might_ rain again. Yup, there was a lot of that Saturday afternoon... once bitten, twice shy type thing. I think some just left early to go to the bar... that's what I'd have done! (Oh, wait, I did... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 20 16:37:55 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: VAXBI hardware (was Re: Equipment disposal) In-Reply-To: <0405201746.AA21580@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405201746.AA21580@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040520213755.GB4657@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 10:46:46AM -0700, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Well, then again I don't have room for or ability to transport a full 19" rack > either... But if the VAX system per se is not the rack but the rackmount units > in it, is there perchance a way you could let me have those?? I want a > VAXBI/XMI machine sooooo bad! Just obtained a copy of the VAXBI spec a couple > months ago and just dying to work with some real HW. But have no room for a > rack. The best I can do is run rackmount units on the bedroom floor instead of > a rack. (What do you do when you just can't afford a real machine room? Use a > bedroom instead.) I've never had an XMI machine, but I do have a BI machine in the basement, an 8200/8300 (depending on if I slot in the second processor or not). I suppose I'd use it more if I had a disk interface for it other than SDI, or if I had some SDI disks other than an RA81 and one 3rd-party SDI<->ESDI box. Because I have lots of 2MB VAXBI memory cards, the bus is full up. The only thing that makes is really interesting is that I have a) a Unibus adapter for it, and b) a custom VAXBI card (COMBOARD-BI) for which I have the entire development environment. I suppose I could hack the card to support a SCSI port or something, but, as in an earlier discussion, it would have to be a plug-in-the-CPU-socket hack - but that would make the card thick enough to require two slots. :-( I just wish I could get the Unibus adapter working - it used to work before I moved it into my basement, but something strange happened, and when I plugged it all in, the DWBUA card fried (voltage where it shouldn't be - burned a trace on the board and detonated a chip!) I've verified the cables are correct, and I've replaced the DWBUA, but the best I can get now is failed self-test. I've seen how well a VAX-6000 fills a basement - there'd be no room down in mine for one... at least the 8200 is compact - 42" tall DEC cab, with a BA-32 at the top (size of a BA-11) and lots of room below for cables. The real shortcoming is you are limited to two VAXBI cages or one VAXBI cage and an internal Unibus (mine is 2x VAXBI + external BA-11) Does anyone happen to have any "large" VAXBI memory boards? (16MB might be the largest) I have a stack of 2MB and a couple of 4MB. I got the 4MB boards from a scrapper for $10 each because he didn't want to bother removing the DRAM from it. I have the stack of 2MB boards because we used to buy them for <$50 each (way back) and pull the VAXBIIC off of them for our _own_ VAXBI boards (saving about $300 per board!) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-May-2004 21:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -63 F (-52.8 C) Windchill -98.5 F (-72.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.7 kts Grid 019 Barometer 679.6 mb (10639. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 20 16:43:54 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: OT: Argh! Message-ID: <1085089433.2145.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Now was not a good time to find that one of the disks in the fileserver has been slowly and silently corrupting itself for the past two weeks - it only manifested itself as a problem when the system was rebooted earlier though :-( 9GB of data down the pan - Grrr! It was all audio data on that drive, so yes I do have backups - on original media though. Gonna take a while to get that all converted to digital format again! Boy am I pissed! :-( Jules From bshannon at tiac.net Thu May 20 17:16:32 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago References: Message-ID: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> ACtually, there is far more interest in the parts than the whole instrument. I've attempted to GIVE AWAY a working Tek 547 with 3 or 4 plug-ins and the original 'scopemobile' cart. Zero takers. But there IS a small fortune in tubes in there. There is a vast and growing interest in designing and building tube circuits these days. Even I got bitten by this bug and built a pair of radio receivers using tubes (not taken from the scope). Many of the needed parts for this sort of work are no longer made and any existing new old stock parts now carry hefty prices. The best solution is to take this fine, grand old test gear, and strip it for parts. Better that the hard-to-get parts are preserved (and used) then the whole instrument goes to the dump. This is clearly a lesser of two evils situation, but when the gear cannot be given away, it is the best option. David V. Corbin wrote: >>>>Some of the tube stuff will have tubes that are worth >>>>more than the instruments. >>>> >>>>Please don't do this. These are generally good instruments, >>>>better than the sort of stuff most hobbyists have. Get >>>>them, restore them, recalibrate them, and use them. I'd >>>>much rather use an old Tekky 500 series 'scope than the >>>>Lucky Goldstar crap that's sold over here (so called I >>>>guess, because you're lucky if the trace bears any relation >>>>to the signal you're measuring). Ditto for signal >>>>generators, DMMs, etc. >>>> >>>>-tony >>>> > >COMPLETE agreement with Tony! > > > From aek at spies.com Thu May 20 17:30:38 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: encore multimax Message-ID: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=4132736470 someone in the Midwest should pick this up. From dan at ekoan.com Thu May 20 17:44:26 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <20040520210908.GA4657@bos7.spole.gov> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> <20040520210908.GA4657@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520183145.06a91c90@enigma> At 05:09 PM 5/20/04, you wrote: > > I bought a Micro PDP-11 and borrowed the seller's hand-truck to > > get it out to my car. Right now it's in my garage -- I have no > > documentation and haven't had time yet to check it out. > >Wow! I haven't seen one of those at Dayton in a long time. I'd >be curious what model. Back panel says it's an 11C23-F. > > I hefted a Heathkit H-47 eight-inch drive housing (no drives) back > > to the car. Quite heavy. > >Do you have the Heathkit Qbus card to go with it or just the drives? Not even the drives -- just the housing and power supply. > > I also bought a whole bunch of Texas Instruments calculator repair > > parts, which happened to include a few TIL-311 LED displays. > >Nice. Hopefully they didn't cost more than a couple of bucks each. About 100 little TI boxes, each about the size of a pack of cigarettes, each containing a different set of parts...all for $10. >A very typical pattern. What gets hard is cruising the aisles when >everything is covered because it _might_ rain again. Yep, everything wrapped in plastic tarps makes it hard to see what's available. But when you do find something, and the seller is still there, he's usually willing to deal. Cheers, Dan From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu May 20 17:42:42 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Help with APPLE //C In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040520120456.02f65a90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040520120456.02f65a90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <0186D34C-AAAF-11D8-81EE-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 20, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Mike Ford wrote: > At 11:43 AM 5/19/04 -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: >> My brother just got an apple //C, but it came without power supply.. >> >> I heard there was "cigarette lighter" adapter for the Apple IIC, Will >> the >> Apple IIC run on 12V? (the case says 15V 1.2Amps) >> >> Does anyone know where we can get a power supply? > > > The power supply is commonly called, "The Brick" due to size and > weight, use a non Apple power supply at your peril. > > I have some, but I am terrible right now about getting stuff shipped. > > > We are building our own to spec on the case, 15vdc 1.2 amps. Even so, at least at the moment we are still interested in buying one for a reasonable price.... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 20 17:51:56 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520183145.06a91c90@enigma> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> <20040520210908.GA4657@bos7.spole.gov> <6.0.3.0.2.20040520183145.06a91c90@enigma> Message-ID: <20040520225156.GA11101@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 06:44:26PM -0400, Dan Veeneman wrote: > Back panel says it's an 11C23-F. OK... an 11/23 with some amount of memory and disk. Given what I remember of those days, I'd guess either an RD51 (10MB) or RD52 (30MB); probably not an RD53 (73MB) or they'd have gotten a faster processor at the same time, and probably not an RD50 (5MB), but it's possible. Not sure about memory, but 1MB sounds like a good guess, based on what cards were common in that day. It takes up to 4MB, but, again, given costs, you'd more likely see an 11/53 or 11/73 with a full boat than an 11/23. Fun little system... it will run lots of stuff that doesn't require a CPU with Split I&D space - RT-11, MicroRSX, 2.9BSD (with MSCP patches) I'd recommend RT-11, but I'll be curious to hear what's on the disk. > >> I hefted a Heathkit H-47 eight-inch drive housing (no drives) back > >> to the car. Quite heavy. > > > >Do you have the Heathkit Qbus card to go with it or just the drives? > > Not even the drives -- just the housing and power supply. Ah... so you said. I can't recall what drives are in mine, but IIRC, they are rather ordinary (for their day) 8" drives with a 50-pin edge connector. There's plenty of smarts in that box (or at least there _were_). OTOH, having a nice mounting spot for 8" drives with the right PSU for the motors (24V, commonly) is handy, even if you have to run the 50-pin cable to some CPU box somewhere. What I can't recall is what systems besides the H-11 that box might have worked with. I also don't know if the boards in the H-47 were different for different hosts. I'm sure that information can be found, though. > About 100 little TI boxes, each about the size of a pack of cigarettes, > each containing a different set of parts...all for $10. Nice. I consider TIL-311s to be cheap if found for under $2 each. You can still find them in abundance for $7-$15. > Yep, everything wrapped in plastic tarps makes it hard to see what's > available. But when you do find something, and the seller is still > there, he's usually willing to deal. Finding someone is usually the trick at that point. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-May-2004 22:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -62.5 F (-52.5 C) Windchill -106.6 F (-77 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 20.3 kts Grid 013 Barometer 679.2 mb (10655. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From medavidson at mac.com Thu May 20 17:49:33 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: encore multimax In-Reply-To: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> Message-ID: On May 20, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=162&item=4132736470 > > someone in the Midwest should pick this up. > > Most definitely... Encore made some nice computers! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 17:58:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: <20040520053413.43419.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at May 19, 4 10:34:13 pm Message-ID: > would be-they are very common. But they even had CRT > spares for my HP2644A (8008 based terminal-for > $250.00! But I (physically) rebuilt that tube myself. You mean you opened it up, replaced the cathode/heater (about the only part that failes), reassembled it, pumped it down, baked it out, etc? How? This is something I've never had the courage to try, and I don't have the necessary equipment -- yet! -tony From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 20 18:09:36 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: encore multimax In-Reply-To: References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> Message-ID: <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 20 May 2004 17:49, Mark Davidson wrote: > On May 20, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > ViewItem&category=162&item=4132736470 > > > > someone in the Midwest should pick this up. > > Most definitely... Encore made some nice computers! Hmm. I need to make more space in my storage unit... It's so close, too... Agh. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 18:04:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at May 20, 4 10:34:16 am Message-ID: > Gameboys are great fun for hacking on. There are open source development > kits and languages out, the hardware is *very* well documented, and there > are tons of third party expansion and adapter cards. [...] Elektor magazine published a design (alas without the source code to the firmware) for an audio-bandwidth digial storage 'scope card for the Gameboy. No, I am not joking... -tony From dancohoe at oxford.net Thu May 20 18:18:44 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> Message-ID: <000001c43ec0$cd225a00$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Veeneman > Friday weather was pretty good. Classic computer-wise I picked up > a Heathkit ET-3400 with the Memory I/O expansion, along with all > the manuals. Got a Heathkit EPROM programmer with one module > (I saw the other one that Roger mentioned but thought it was too > expensive). From the same seller I also got a Tandy Color Computer > EDTASM cartridge and a 16K memory module for a Timex-Sinclair. > > I bought a Micro PDP-11 and borrowed the seller's hand-truck to > get it out to my car. Right now it's in my garage -- I have no > documentation and haven't had time yet to check it out. > > I bought four BCC52x single-board computers, with manuals and > interface documentation. These use the 8052 BASIC language > processor discussed on this list recently. > > I hefted a Heathkit H-47 eight-inch drive housing (no drives) back > to the car. Quite heavy. > > I bought a TRS-80 Pocket Computer in a case with a photocopied > manual, along with two handheld electronic games (Tandy Cycle Race > and Tandy Championship Baseball). > > Also picked up an HP-35 calculator and AC adapter. Later I bought > an HP-41C and 82104A card reader, both in the original boxes with > all the manuals, along with an HP-28 and manuals. I also bought a > whole bunch of Texas Instruments calculator repair parts, which > happened to include a few TIL-311 LED displays. > > I met fellow list-member Dan Cohoe, who had a truck full of HP > equipment (mostly 64000 stuff). Very nice guy, except that he's > taking all the old HP gear up to Canada! :-) > Sounds like you did very well Dan...but on the other hand, and I really wasn't going to torment you with this but.....so did I. By an incredible stroke of good fortune, about mid-afternoon Friday a gentleman walked by, stopped to take a look and offered to buy all the old HP monitors I had on the truck. On discussing my interest in HP 1000's, he mentioned he had qite a few. Later he returned to organize for meeting at the parking lot with the monitors and announced that he'd part with all his 1000 items if I was interested in going to his warehouse closer to Cleveland. Planning to head home that evening anyway, I followed him for three hours to load my pick-up with HP1000 items and ...about the nicest 2100A I've seen. All in trade for another monochrome monitor and an untested 9153B. I'm still in shock. Dan Cohoe From dan at ekoan.com Thu May 20 18:31:28 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <000001c43ec0$cd225a00$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> <000001c43ec0$cd225a00$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520192953.06a90280@enigma> At 07:18 PM 5/20/04, Dan Cohoe wrote: >Sounds like you did very well Dan...but on the other hand, and I really >wasn't going to torment you with this but.....so did I. [...] >I followed him for three hours to load my pick-up >with HP1000 items and ...about the nicest 2100A I've seen. All in trade for >another monochrome monitor and an untested 9153B. That's just mean. --Dan From allain at panix.com Thu May 20 18:37:59 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> not my listing. It's been a while since we've had a rave over an eBay listing but here's one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4214743735 The "Digital at Work" oversized paperback. Starting bid: US $185.00 It's a nice book but c'mon! Boy do I feel lucky finding that one when it was published. cover price $19.95 John A. From arcarlini at iee.org Thu May 20 19:30:31 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001501c43eca$d2a374a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Elektor magazine published a design (alas without the source > code to the > firmware) for an audio-bandwidth digial storage 'scope card for the > Gameboy. No, I am not joking... I don't recall seeing the original Elektor article, but I have seen adverts in various UK electronics mags for said GB addon (about ?90 IIRC). Elektor do have some useful projects every now and then :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Thu May 20 19:38:52 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001601c43ecb$fe0d6370$5b01a8c0@athlon> > The "Digital at Work" oversized > paperback. > Starting bid: US $185.00 > It's a nice book but c'mon! I assumed that you were (quite rightly) whining that eighteen bucks is a tad too much for a book and had simply mistyped the price. But, no, to my amazement, you have reported it correctly. So obviously the seller mistyped the price twice (since the BIN is $195). It will be fun to see if it sells (and even more interesting to see if someone wants it badly and yet is foolish enough to enter an opening bid rather than using the BIN :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 20 19:48:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040520204838.0087bbb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:37 PM 5/20/04 -0400, you wrote: >not my listing. > >It's been a while since we've had a rave over an eBay >listing but here's one: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4214743735 >The "Digital at Work" oversized paperback. >Starting bid: US $185.00 >It's a nice book but c'mon! The seller is also a liar! He says that it sells for $260 on abebooks. I checked and the first one that I found is listed for $30! Joe > >Boy do I feel lucky finding that one when it was published. >cover price $19.95 > >John A. > > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 20 19:53:03 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <001601c43ecb$fe0d6370$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <001601c43ecb$fe0d6370$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > The "Digital at Work" oversized > > paperback. > > Starting bid: US $185.00 > > It's a nice book but c'mon! > > I assumed that you were (quite rightly) whining > that eighteen bucks is a tad too much for a > book and had simply mistyped the price. But, > no, to my amazement, you have reported it > correctly. So obviously the seller mistyped > the price twice (since the BIN is $195). Well, there are two copies presently listed on abebooks.com - one for $250 and one for $297 - p'raps the Seller did a little homework first...? Not that I think I'm ready to pay that much for this particular title. [I've paid over $8000 for one book (a rare hand-blocked copy of Juvenal from 1590 - sold it 20 years later for $11K)] Cheerz John From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 20 19:55:55 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040520204838.0087bbb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040520204838.0087bbb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > The seller is also a liar! He says that it sells for $260 on abebooks. I > checked and the first one that I found is listed for $30! > n=Digital+at+Work&sortby=2> > Look closer, Joe - this got me too. That first listing is for: "Digital Work Force: Building Infotech Skills at the Speed of Innovation (ISBN:0788188011) Meares, Carol Ann (au); Sargent, John F., Jr. (au)" The other two are the DEC books of interest, by Pearson and Olsen. Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 20 19:56:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > The "Digital at Work" oversized > > > paperback. > > > Starting bid: US $185.00 > > > It's a nice book but c'mon! > > > > I assumed that you were (quite rightly) whining > > that eighteen bucks is a tad too much for a > > book and had simply mistyped the price. But, > > no, to my amazement, you have reported it > > correctly. So obviously the seller mistyped > > the price twice (since the BIN is $195). > > > Well, there are two copies presently listed on abebooks.com - one for > $250 and one for $297 - p'raps the Seller did a little homework first...? Why is this damn assemblage of dead tree pulp valued so astronomically? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu May 20 20:06:28 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: ProLog M825 System Analyzer and Millenium ICE pictures In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040519214430.008c4230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040519214430.008c4230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40AD5614.3090405@nktelco.net> Joe R. wrote: > Interesting. I've never seen one like that before. But the console, >display and keyboard arrangement and cards look VERY similar. I expect that >it's very nearly the same as mine but just repackaged. What CPU is your's >designed for? Does it has a probe with it? I don't see a socket on the >front for one but it might use one of the ones on the rear. > > > I have an 8085 pod and it does indeed connect to one of the board edge connectors in the rear. I think the portable unit you have is described in my manual. The two could be connected via a modem so that you could debug a system remotely. > Joe > -chuck From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 20 20:10:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040520204838.0087bbb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040520204838.0087bbb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040520211004.008a8aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:55 PM 5/20/04 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 20 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> The seller is also a liar! He says that it sells for $260 on abebooks. I >> checked and the first one that I found is listed for $30! >> > n=Digital+at+Work&sortby=2> >> > > > Look closer, Joe - this got me too. That first listing is for: > >"Digital Work Force: Building Infotech Skills at the Speed of Innovation >(ISBN:0788188011) >Meares, Carol Ann (au); Sargent, John F., Jr. (au)" Oops! Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 20 20:15:14 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 21, 2004 12:04:45 AM Message-ID: <200405210115.i4L1FEEr003996@onyx.spiritone.com> > Elektor magazine published a design (alas without the source code to the > firmware) for an audio-bandwidth digial storage 'scope card for the > Gameboy. No, I am not joking... > > -tony Actually that's kind of cool. I assume this was for the older Gameboy and not the GB Advanced? The newest version has a lot better screen. Zane From bshannon at tiac.net Thu May 20 20:22:47 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: Symbolics / LISP machines References: Message-ID: <40AD59E7.4040807@tiac.net> I used to work for Lisp Machines Inc, and I'm very familiar with early list machine hardware. What questions can I help you with? Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >Hi, > >>> * Symbolics 3650 (heavy) >>> * 2 extra color memory boards >>> * extra 2MW memeory board >>> * Monitor & keyboard >>> >>I'd love to get a Lisp Machine, but I really can't justify to myself >>either the shipping costs or the space it would take up. Fortunately >>it appears it won't get tossed, which is my other worry. >> > >OK.. so how do I see such a machine... I can't figure out how a LISP >machine "works" , or gets programmed. Guess they're from before my >time... heeeelp !? > >--f > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu May 20 20:23:02 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200405202123.03027.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 20 May 2004 19:37, John Allain wrote: > not my listing. > > It's been a while since we've had a rave over an eBay > listing but here's one: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4214743735 > The "Digital at Work" oversized paperback. > Starting bid: US $185.00 > It's a nice book but c'mon! I stopped by E-Bay today and found a few other suprises http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=5700041679&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW $500! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=3096272864&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW $300 are 3100s worth that much now - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFArVn2LPrIaE/xBZARAl3MAKCDii+Ds0gSb2P0prBwmM7+Cxk7mQCeLd10 8nsOXVIUofYzrAHDg1g/p50= =FENT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 20 20:32:35 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <200405202123.03027.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <200405202123.03027.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200405202032.35407.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 20 May 2004 20:23, Mike Kenzie wrote: > I stopped by E-Bay today and found a few other suprises > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=5700 >041679&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW $500! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=3096 >272864&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW $300 > > are 3100s worth that much now No, that's why they've been relisted and aren't selling... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From allain at panix.com Thu May 20 20:45:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay References: Message-ID: <104c01c43ed5$4cd37860$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Why is this damn assemblage of dead tree pulp valued so astronomically? Assuming you don't have the book? It's half history by table, sets of products and date data all over the place - and half history by story, people giving their recollections. There's a ton of B&W pictures too. Maybe the best single book on DEC _history_ if that's not clear from the title. John A. "All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." --some cool dude From jpl15 at panix.com Thu May 20 20:49:04 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: <200405202123.03027.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200405202230.i4KMUcPJ022516@spies.com> <200405201809.36344.pat@computer-refuge.org> <0aff01c43ec3$7c77fe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <200405202123.03027.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=3096272864&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > $300 ^^^^^^ Be still my heart! Seller grants the Boon of Buy-It-Now for the paltry sum of....... waaiiit for it!........ USD$1,300.00 (!) And I had to give $15.00 for mine. O well - too bad the VT540 is not included - very poor marketing, no? Cheers PeeTee Barnum From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 20 20:57:51 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K Message-ID: >The Mac's current chip is a XC68LC040RC33B. >I have a spare chip here, a XC68040HRC25M >which looks the wrong speed. The one you have will probably work anyway. But since it isn't cleared for 33 Mhz, it could fry (chances are it won't as Macs have usually faired pretty well at being overclocked). If you have no use for the 25 MHz version you have, I'd actually love to make a trade. I'm pretty sure the ones I pulled are all 33 MHz (I'll check in the morning), but since I planned to use them in Centris 610's which are only clocked at 20 MHz, I'd be fine with a 25 MHz chip instead. If you do have another use for it, no biggie, I'll still send you a full 040 chip (pending I have a 33 MHz one, but I'm pretty sure that is the only speed I have, they came from dead Quadra 630's which were 33 MHz machines) -chris From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu May 20 21:17:00 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: ADM3's Where did they go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To all who expressed interest in getting one of the ADM3's I was hoping to pick up next weekend, I just got the e-Mail which I am attaching below. As you can tell, I will not get getting them. I will try to contact each of the people who sent me e-mail directly, but wanted to post initially to the list so you would all know.... David. --------------------------------------- Sigh. I am embarrassed to be writing this. I made it over to my Dad's storage area today only to find NO FREAKING AMD3s. There was a large amount of CLSI OEM'ed terminals (Visual Technology???? Couldn't find any info or specs on the cases) that were pulled out of other library installations, but no AMD3s. There was really no other explanation other than my dad saying over and over "I could have sworn I had a bunch of these". The real problem is that I think is is suffering from a serious hoarding disorder (I have been trying to help him clear out his stuff) and he has so much stuff in various places that he doesn't really know what he does and doesn't have. You would cry if you could see the way old computer equipment is just piled up and mixed in with alot of other junk. He probably does have some nice treasures in there *IF* you could get at them. I am totally sorry for wasting everybody's time and getting anybody's hopes up. Next time I will actually be sure to see the stuff with my own eyes before I go offering things. Live and learn. Again, my apologies. Dave, if you could update the folks you had spoken to and apologize to them from me I would appreciate it. rich From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu May 20 21:27:15 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just tried to follow the link...... Item The item you requested (30962) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson >>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:49 PM >>> To: ba600@ncf.ca; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: "Digital at Work" on ePay >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 20 May 2004, Mike Kenzie wrote: >>> >>> > >>> > >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479& >>> item=30962 >>> > 72864&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW >>> > $300 >>> ^^^^^^ >>> >>> Be still my heart! Seller grants the Boon of Buy-It-Now >>> for the paltry sum of....... waaiiit for it!........ >>> >>> USD$1,300.00 (!) >>> >>> And I had to give $15.00 for mine. O well - too bad the >>> VT540 is not included - very poor marketing, no? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> PeeTee Barnum >>> From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu May 20 21:24:18 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:43 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <7111578.1084823122972.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <7111578.1084823122972.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040520212418.7b42a652.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 17 May 2004 15:45:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Steve Thatcher wrote: > I'll take it. I have been looking for a real AT... > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Richman > Sent: May 17, 2004 3:21 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home > > I have an IBM AT with all original docs and keyboard, in like-new > condition from the original owner. It can be yours for the price of > shipping. Note that it has an upgrade VGA video card in place of the > usual mono or CGA/EGA card, and that it currently will not boot from > the hard drive (which is why he finally upgraded to a PC made in the > last 20 years). A 14" VGA monitor, IBM ProPrinter, and Okidata 320 > printer are also available as part of the bundle. E-mail if you have > questions or want the thing. Note that I ship via Mailboxes Etc. so > be prepared to pay their packing/shipping rates or arrange to pick it > up. > > > I am still on the scout for an original IBM EGA monitor for the PC/AT I picked up over a year ago at auction. It's a real back-burner project, of course. I have resolved not to power the system up until I find said monitor, or at a minimum a real IBM 9-pin mono monitor. The AT box has original EGA card, with the bare 64K of RAM, and I have decided not to 'foul' it with a VGA card. Incidentally, I'm probably one of the few people who for years ran a PC with the IBM EGA card jumpered in 'monochrome' mode, a mode that gave one bit graphics better (in some respects) than a Hercules card when a common 9-pin mono monitor was attached. Back in the day when all I aspired to were green/white/amber-screen monitors, of course. Now I can't find a 9-pin mono monitor for the life of me. Bought a whole system for $3 at auction last weekend after looking across the room at it because it showed 'promise' of having a 9-pin mono monitor. Alas another multisync VGA. Times have changed, and what's scarce and 'unobtainable' has changed with time. Anybody who reads the list going to the IUPUI auction in Indianapolis this Saturday? From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 20 21:35:50 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405202135.50372.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 20 May 2004 21:27, David V. Corbin wrote: > Just tried to follow the link...... > > Item > The item you requested (30962) is invalid, still pending, or no > longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If > this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet > available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available. Well, you need to remove the line-break from the URL. : ) > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:49 PM > >>> To: ba600@ncf.ca; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >>> Posts Subject: Re: "Digital at Work" on ePay > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, 20 May 2004, Mike Kenzie wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479& > >>> item=30962 > >>> > >>> > 72864&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > >>> > $300 > >>> > >>> ^^^^^^ > >>> > >>> Be still my heart! Seller grants the Boon of Buy-It-Now > >>> for the paltry sum of....... waaiiit for it!........ > >>> > >>> USD$1,300.00 (!) > >>> > >>> And I had to give $15.00 for mine. O well - too bad the > >>> VT540 is not included - very poor marketing, no? > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> > >>> PeeTee Barnum -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 21:32:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <200405210115.i4L1FEEr003996@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at May 20, 4 06:15:14 pm Message-ID: > > > Elektor magazine published a design (alas without the source code to the > > firmware) for an audio-bandwidth digial storage 'scope card for the > > Gameboy. No, I am not joking... > > > > -tony > > Actually that's kind of cool. I assume this was for the older Gameboy and > not the GB Advanced? The newest version has a lot better screen. I think it's for the original one, or at least the pictures in the article show something that looks like what I think a Gameboy looks like :-). I must admint I am not into games (the only handhled game I own is th MB Microvisio, and I bought that (some 20 years ago) to experiment with the LCD panel and driver). TOPIC DRIFT, but the Microvision is on-topic. [The driver is custom, and has 40 pins. 32 of them go to the display (X and Y lines, 16 of each). 2 are power. The remaining 6 go to the cartridge connector, each cartridge contains a TMS1000 microcontroller. They seem to e 4 data lines, start, and clock. Timing is critical. At the time I was hacking this, I didn't have a logic analyser. But I read the TMS1000 data sheet and found you could slow the clock right down (I think this involved soldering a cap across an existing one on the cartridge PCB). I then hung LEDs off the 6 signals that would have gone to the LCD driver, powered up the catridge PCB, and wrote down the LED sequence by hand. Now why do I remember all this? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 21:35:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: "Digital at Work" on ePay In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 20, 4 05:56:31 pm Message-ID: > Why is this damn assemblage of dead tree pulp valued so astronomically? I have no idea. If this is the book I think it is, I bought it when it came out (about 10 years ago), but nearly didn't. It's full of amusing errors -- one picture that claims to be a VAX is certainly a PDP11 (or vice versa), a microVAX CPU chip is obviously a memory device, one of the other picutres is left-right flipped (unelss there was an ASR33 with the punch on the right hand side, and a PDPx with all the front panel markings mirror-reversed :-)) and so on. It's an OK book, but it's not something I use that often. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 21:37:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Nintendo GameBoy a valid discussion topic now? In-Reply-To: <001501c43eca$d2a374a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at May 21, 4 01:30:31 am Message-ID: > Elektor do have some useful projects every now and then :-) One good change they've made recently is that for about 80% of the microcontroller-based projects yuo can get the source code (either as a download or on a floppy). They had a lot of moans (including from me) when all the micro-based projects (which must have been well over 50% of the circuits they publisehd) were based on an undocumented, unmodifiable black box! IO am not sure I like the new layout/style, though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 21:54:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <20040520212418.7b42a652.sastevens@earthlink.net> from "Scott Stevens" at May 20, 4 09:24:18 pm Message-ID: > I am still on the scout for an original IBM EGA monitor for the PC/AT I Well, I am not shipping one of mine :-)... > picked up over a year ago at auction. It's a real back-burner project, > of course. I have resolved not to power the system up until I find said > monitor, or at a minimum a real IBM 9-pin mono monitor. The AT box has FWIW, the EGA card will also drive a CGA monitor if you're desparate, the result is somewhat better than that produced by a real CGA card, of course. > original EGA card, with the bare 64K of RAM, and I have decided not to I think all my EGA cards have the 'optional' RAM expansion card fitted. At one point, I made a little adapter that plugged into the 'feature connector' and which produced composite mono video from the RGB and sync signals. I acutally ran an XT with that into a composite mono monitor (with the EGA card in a CGA compatible mode) for a time. > green/white/amber-screen monitors, of course. Now I can't find a 9-pin > mono monitor for the life of me. Bought a whole system for $3 at Well, I am certainly not parting with the one I am using right now (yes, a real IBM 5151...) > auction last weekend after looking across the room at it because it > showed 'promise' of having a 9-pin mono monitor. Alas another multisync > VGA. Times have changed, and what's scarce and 'unobtainable' has > changed with time. Yes, indeed. Many of the original PC parts are getting very hard to find now. I guess because people considered them worthless :-( -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 20 21:56:19 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago References: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> Message-ID: <40AD6FD3.7040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > ACtually, there is far more interest in the parts than the whole > instrument. > > I've attempted to GIVE AWAY a working Tek 547 with 3 or 4 plug-ins and > the original 'scopemobile' cart. Well nobody told me ... No wait I don't drive. :( > Zero takers. > > But there IS a small fortune in tubes in there. There is a vast and > growing interest > in designing and building tube circuits these days. Even I got bitten > by this bug > and built a pair of radio receivers using tubes (not taken from the scope). Mostly audio tubes and a few rare radio parts get a high price. TV tubes are still a 'dime a dozen' so to speak. > Many of the needed parts for this sort of work are no longer made and any > existing new old stock parts now carry hefty prices. The best solution > is to > take this fine, grand old test gear, and strip it for parts. From what little I have seen on Scope parts it is the solid state custom IC's and transistors that are hard to find. > Better that the hard-to-get parts are preserved (and used) then the > whole instrument > goes to the dump. This is clearly a lesser of two evils situation, but > when the gear > cannot be given away, it is the best option. Or check online. A lot of test gear parts here. http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/index.html > David V. Corbin wrote: I got a free scope, that worked great great for tube amp I was building. Other than FAD prices, you get what you pay for. Good $$$ for good parts including tubes. Ben. From vrs at msn.com Thu May 20 22:03:14 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Components I don't need Message-ID: Hi, I recently inherited a bunch of TTL and such from a list member (thanks, Zane!), and after going through it all, I find there are several items where I don't know how to, or otherwise can't, use them. These are basically free to a good home (postage would be good). Many of them look like they might be suitable for someone's vintage computer equipment :-). (Since this is slightly off-topic, please direct replies off-list.) Vince Count Part Datasheet? Pkg Style Description 4 AM26LS32BPC Yes 16DIP Quad Differential Line Receivers (RS422/RS423) 5 AM9518DC AppNotes Only DIP Data Ciphering Processor 34 AMP749265-1 Yes 7pin Circular Mini-DIN Connectors (Mouser 161-2207 equiv.) 1 AMZ8068DC AppNotes Only DIP See AM9518DC 1 D8257C Yes(zipped TIF) DIP Programmable DMA Controller 4 GA1110E No DIP (Triquint) Clock Distribution (no datasheet) 4 KMM59256BN-8 No 30SIP SAMSUNG 256Kx9 Memory 1 MC6859L No Dip DES chip? 5 MM2801J9S-07 No 60SIM NMB 256Kx9 Memory 15 MT4C16257DJ-6 Yes 40SOJ 256Kx16 DRAM 2 MT9259M-12 No 60SIM Mitel 1Mx9 Memory (See TM024EAD9) 7 P21256-12 Yes(NTE) 16DIP (Intel) 256Kbit DRAM 3 P51C256-15 16DIP (Intel) DRAM 15 P8237A-5 Yes DIP Programmable DMA Controller 15 PE-65434A No 10SIP(5+4) Analog Frontend Filter 2 SN75111N No 16DIP Quad General Line Driver 6 TM024EAD9-10L No 60SIM TI 1Mx9 Memory 9 WDC90C20-LR No TSOP VGA Flat Panel Display Controller 31 No PLCC Low Profile 68 Pin PLCC-PLCC socket 23 No PLCC Low Profile 32 Pin PLCC-PLCC socket 25 No PLCC Low Profile 44 Pin PLCC-PLCC socket From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 20 22:08:05 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home References: Message-ID: <40AD7295.5080508@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, indeed. Many of the original PC parts are getting very hard to find > now. I guess because people considered them worthless :-( I considered them worthless even when new. I have some targa 16 frame grabber cards ( ISA ) that I want to go to a good home too. Time to do some spring cleaning. > -tony > From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu May 20 22:31:29 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Sparc 10 PSU connector pinout anyone? In-Reply-To: <20040518123754.GA86845@silme.pair.com> References: <20040518123754.GA86845@silme.pair.com> Message-ID: <20040520223129.011ce80b.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:37:55 -0400 Adam Goldman wrote: > Google for 800-6358-11 to find the the SPARCstation-10 service manual. > It is a drool-proof manual but there is a pinout buried somewhere in > the middle. > > -- Adam By aggressive 'mining' of Sun's websites, I came up with PDF manuals of almost all the classic Sparc machines. For whatever reason, Sun doesn't make it very easy to find some of them. There are ways to 'land' in directorys their Web Servers allow you to bumble into that don't appear to be available through any reference on their site. I can't remember the URL, and sadly it's probably forbidden for me to just publish it all on a CD and redistribute it to people who could use it. The PDF files are probably findable with the above part number if you include 'pdf' as a search term as well. From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu May 20 22:41:48 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Nonvolatile RAM on single board computers In-Reply-To: <20040519030502.32249.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040519030502.32249.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040520224148.33ad33ad.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 18 May 2004 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT) SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > I have a SBC with nonvolatile RAM on it. There are > DRAM and EPROM too. I guess the nonvolatile RAM might > be used to hold some important parameters while EPROM > is used to hold program. > > Since nonvolatile RAM has limited life, I wonder how > you guys deal with nonvolatile RAM in your old > computers. Reading out the content with a EPROM > programmer is a solution that jumps into my mind. > "Burn" a new nonvolatile RAM and wait for another 10 > years? It seems a boring work... > > vax, 3900 > > If you're careful (and preferrably can back up the contents of the module first) you can sometimes dremel into the top of the module in such a way that you can tack on an exteral battery. I wouldn't advise it as a method of 'preserving' the current contents, as it would be very likely to be blown during a battery replacement, but it's a reasonable way to continue to use the module. There's a classic reference on how to do this with SparcStation NVRAM modules, a conversion I do to almost every old Sparc box I restore. I'm not sure how to 'read out' the contents since I've never tried, but they're often the same SRAM/EPROM footprint. Anybody tried reading the contents with said EPROM programmer? > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu May 20 22:49:21 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K In-Reply-To: <00ad01c43e8f$86a93ca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405200044.RAA12730@floodgap.com> <00ad01c43e8f$86a93ca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040520224921.106ce7cc.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:25:54 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > I've been having fun working up this configuration, > thanks to Chris and a local netBSD company. > > The onCD documentation for installing the OS was a little spotty, > It's taken a bunch of workarounds to get it this point: O/S loaded > and booting which I can make public if anybody wants. > > It threatens to be entirely enjoyable experience, if it works > reliably, which it isn't at current. I get random segmentation and > other faults during medium level of challenge commands like df,du, and > pstat. > > I'm thinking there's three possibilities right now: (1) mis-configured > swap space, (2) feeble SCSI driver + marginal SCSI drive specs, > (3) bad memory. There could be another cause; I don't know. > #1 seems most likely since all I've done is create the swap partition, > no config changes were made, but the /etc/fstab at least looks OK to > me. > #2 has been hinted at by some documentation, but the disk load > went without hiccup. > #3 hasn't been seen within the MacOS (7.5.1) but I don't know any > serious tests for it. > > If anyone is dealing with BSD right and wants to comment, > be my guest. > > John A. I have had a lot of fun running NetBSD/mac68k on my SE/30 Macintoshes. What the other writer says about an LC40 processor is probably what you should chase down. There are tons of problems running with the aforementioned processor, if that's what you have, and you should try to find a true '040 processor to plug in. I believe they say that some of the bugs are worked out on later releases. You might try one of the later releases of 1.6 (1.6.1 comes to mind) and see if that runs better. It is super-cool-fun running the X Window System on a teeny-tiny classic 1-bit Macintosh display. Even the Tab Window Manager leaves you feeling widget-crowded. ;) It's a great setup to run GNU Chess on. But you want to cross-build any packages on a faster box. From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Thu May 20 23:45:26 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Nonvolatile RAM on single board computers Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C2D@email1.parl.net> > I'm not sure how to 'read out' the contents since I've never tried, but they're often the same SRAM/EPROM footprint. Anybody tried reading the > contents with said EPROM programmer? I haven't finished/tested it yet; but I was planning to use NVRAM as pseudo EEPROMs, because no UV erasing means quicker debug turn around time. I have mostly finished a design that would use the PC parallel port to read/write Dallas 32kx8 NVRAMS. Only mostly because I am waiting for my cheap ebay ZIF sockets to arrive. I am happy to share information, so if any one wants my ideas just drop me an off list request. David From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 21 00:00:25 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> References: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200405210502.BAA12316@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I've attempted to GIVE AWAY a working Tek 547 with 3 or 4 plug-ins > and the original 'scopemobile' cart. > Zero takers. You must not have tried anywhere I had access to! I'd love to get my hands on a good 'scope, and yes, I too would prefer a good old tube 'scope to one of today's "let's digitize everything in sight as a first step" crop. About all that would stop me from grabbing such a thing would be outrageous shipping charges (or, I suppose, if it's physically so huge I couldn't fit it into my workshop - and it'd take more than I've ever seen in a 'scope to do that). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 00:18:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: ADM3's Where did they go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > To all who expressed interest in getting one of the ADM3's I was hoping to > pick up next weekend, I just got the e-Mail which I am attaching below. As > you can tell, I will not get getting them. I will try to contact each of the > people who sent me e-mail directly, but wanted to post initially to the list > so you would all know.... Ok, the scarcity of ADM3's has just jumped due to this. They are now worth $150 each. :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 00:21:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <20040520212418.7b42a652.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > I am still on the scout for an original IBM EGA monitor for the PC/AT I I've been putting these aside as they come into my recycling operation because I know they are becoming scarce. So far I've gotten a whole ONE EGA monitor. I've also got one or two EGA adapters. They certainly seem to be rarer than ADM3's these days ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri May 21 00:57:31 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: ADM3's Where did they go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Ok, the scarcity of ADM3's has just jumped due to this. They are now > worth $150 each. Which is good, because I have two available. And YES, I have physically seen and touched 'em :) --fred From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri May 21 01:18:35 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 38 (Was: ADM-3A) In-Reply-To: <200405210522.i4L5LChl053110@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040521061835.21002.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> --- cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org > /plain > > > would be-they are very common. But they even had > CRT > > spares for my HP2644A (8008 based terminal-for > > $250.00! But I (physically) rebuilt that tube > myself. > > > You mean you opened it up, replaced the > cathode/heater (about the only > part that failes), reassembled it, pumped it down, > baked it out, etc? > How? This is something I've never had the courage to > try, and I don't > have the necessary equipment -- yet! > Well, no, the problem with these CRT's is that they have a RTV-like implosion shield between the front of the tube and another layer of glass. Over time, the RTV develops a mold from the edges in and the tube looks horrible and becomes unusable. I worked up the guts to cut between the tube and the plate with a nichrome wire. Not recommended for the sane. I replaced the shield with aquarium RTV at the edges. The tube works very well now. . ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From wmaddox at pacbell.net Fri May 21 03:44:15 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <20040520212418.7b42a652.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <7111578.1084823122972.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <20040520212418.7b42a652.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <40ADC15F.70205@pacbell.net> Scott Stevens wrote: > green/white/amber-screen monitors, of course. Now I can't find a 9-pin > mono monitor for the life of me. Bought a whole system for $3 at > auction last weekend after looking across the room at it because it > showed 'promise' of having a 9-pin mono monitor. I have a "Casper" brand monochrome monitor, dumped by a neighbor when he moved. It has a 9-pin connector on it, though only 6 pins are actually fitted. It does not power up, and I have nothing to drive it with anyhow. It is in nice physical/cosmetic condition, and is likely repairable. It's available for the cost of shipping to anyone who wants it. --Bill From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri May 21 06:35:44 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home References: <7111578.1084823122972.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net><20040520212418.7b42a652.sastevens@earthlink.net> <40ADC15F.70205@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <000901c43f27$d2eae3a0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Maddox" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:44 AM Subject: Re: IBM AT Free to a Good Home > Scott Stevens wrote: > > > green/white/amber-screen monitors, of course. Now I can't find a 9-pin > > mono monitor for the life of me. Bought a whole system for $3 at > > auction last weekend after looking across the room at it because it > > showed 'promise' of having a 9-pin mono monitor. > > I have a "Casper" brand monochrome monitor, I used to have one of those. Had problems with ghosting. I think it got spirited away during a garage sale. It kind of spooked me on getting another one. dumped by a neighbor when > he moved. It has a 9-pin connector on it, though only 6 pins are > actually fitted. It does not power up, and I have nothing to drive it > with anyhow. It is in nice physical/cosmetic condition, and is likely > repairable. It's available for the cost of shipping to anyone who wants > it. > > --Bill > Sheet. Good offer. :) bm From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri May 21 07:06:14 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FYI: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1502&item=5700910952& rd=1 From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 21 07:59:30 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. References: Message-ID: <001101c43f33$756a76d0$99100f14@mcothran1> Is this one of those 5 bit models, not the ASR-33 style? Also, I have an old Western Union 5 bit teleltype that I want to get rid of. It was used about 20-25 years ago for deaf people to communicate with each other. It has the handset adapter and manuals and worked the last time it was used back in the mid-1980s. It has been in storage since then. Is anyone interested in one of these? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:06 AM Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. > > FYI: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1502&item=5700910952& > rd=1 > From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 21 08:44:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago References: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> <40AD6FD3.7040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16558.1990.919327.75076@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: >> Many of the needed parts for this sort of work are no longer made >> and any existing new old stock parts now carry hefty prices. The >> best solution is to take this fine, grand old test gear, and strip >> it for parts. ben> From what little I have seen on Scope parts it is the solid ben> state custom IC's and transistors that are hard to find. Things like the high voltage rectifier tubes as found in, say, a Tek 535, are also rare and expensive. I found this out the hard way... paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 21 09:17:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. References: <001101c43f33$756a76d0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16558.3981.258377.41816@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> Is this one of those 5 bit models, not the ASR-33 style? >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1502&item=5700910952&rd=1 Yes -- three rows of keys rather than four on the keyboard, that's the giveway. (It doesn't necessarily work that way on other company's products, but Teletype's 5 bit machines have 3 row keyboards.) The 28 is much sturdier than the 33. The 8-bit analog of the 28 is the model 35 (or at least that's a lot closer than the 33 is). paul From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 10:02:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? Message-ID: Has anyone got the system disks for the Sanyo MBC 555? If so, Tiziano in Italy needs them. Please contact him at . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri May 21 10:46:49 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: What the best to repair battery contacts Message-ID: <00a501c43f4a$ec029ae0$18406b43@66067007> I have several items (calculators, robots, Mac's, etc) that I'm trying to restore and the battery acid has eaten away the battery contacts. Anyone have a easy way or source to get new contacts to replace the damaged ones? Thanks From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 10:58:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: DOS-based VME computer? Message-ID: Odd, perhaps even stupid question: Was there ever a DOS-based VME computer? If so, has anyone got one? Want to sell it? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From emu at ecubics.com Fri May 21 11:18:45 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: DOS-based VME computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40AE2BE5.3050707@ecubics.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Odd, perhaps even stupid question: I think it was stupid thing to do (the boards) > Was there ever a DOS-based VME computer? yup > If so, has anyone got one? Want to sell it? No, don't have any. But if you look at: http://www.vita.com/vmeprod/processorsindex.shtml You can choose the board you like, and go hunting ;-) From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 11:17:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word 2.0 and 4.0 Message-ID: I'm looking for Microsoft Word (Windows) version 2.0 and 4.0. Has anyone got these in the original cartons with original media and manuals? If so, I'm willing to pay up to $40 each. Please contact me directly at . Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 11:45:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: DOS-based VME computer? In-Reply-To: <40AE2BE5.3050707@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Odd, perhaps even stupid question: > > I think it was stupid thing to do (the boards) > > > Was there ever a DOS-based VME computer? > > yup > > > If so, has anyone got one? Want to sell it? > > No, don't have any. But if you look at: > > http://www.vita.com/vmeprod/processorsindex.shtml > > You can choose the board you like, and go hunting ;-) Ok, so the next question is a bit more complex. If I've got a VME interface board, and I'd like to run a program that runs under DOS on an ISA-based interface that does the same thing as the VME board, will that program work with the VME board or is the entire hardware/interrupt structure completely different? In other words, does MS-DOS think it's still running on an ISA system even though it's on a VME system? Or was there a special MS-DOS made for VME systems? I know I'm engaging in wishful thinking but I'm wondering if the DOS software will work with the VME board. I suppose if its going through BIOS then maybe, but my guess is that the software is directly accessing the ISA board hardware and will not work with the VME board in a VME system. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 11:47:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: Still looking for the Alpha Microsystems VideoTrax PC interface Message-ID: I'm still seeking out the PC interface for the Alpha Microsystems VideoTrax VHS tape drive. I've scored the drive (which is just a slightly modded Panasonic VCR) but I still need the interface, which is the last important piece of this puzzle I'm working on. I have no idea what it would look like exactly. It probably has some phono jacks on the back, and a one or two row header with anywhere from 4 to 8 pins. It probably is labeled "Alpha Microsystems". If anyone's got such a beast then you will be my New Best Friend :) Willing to pay good money. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pcw at mesanet.com Fri May 21 12:00:35 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: DOS-based VME computer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > Odd, perhaps even stupid question: > > > > I think it was stupid thing to do (the boards) > > > > > Was there ever a DOS-based VME computer? > > > > yup > > > > > If so, has anyone got one? Want to sell it? > > > > No, don't have any. But if you look at: > > > > http://www.vita.com/vmeprod/processorsindex.shtml > > > > You can choose the board you like, and go hunting ;-) > > Ok, so the next question is a bit more complex. > > If I've got a VME interface board, and I'd like to run a program that runs > under DOS on an ISA-based interface that does the same thing as the VME > board, will that program work with the VME board or is the entire > hardware/interrupt structure completely different? > > In other words, does MS-DOS think it's still running on an ISA system even > though it's on a VME system? Or was there a special MS-DOS made for VME > systems? > > I know I'm engaging in wishful thinking but I'm wondering if the DOS > software will work with the VME board. I suppose if its going through > BIOS then maybe, but my guess is that the software is directly accessing > the ISA board hardware and will not work with the VME board in a VME > system. Just guessing, but this has less to do with bus structure than whether the VME CPU card is PC compatible. If its new enough (say >386) its probably guaranteed to be PC compatible: BIOS PC compatible interrupts PC compatible memory map PC compatible or BIOs supported console and mass storage etc etc > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri May 21 12:35:12 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:44 2005 Subject: DOS-based VME computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405211035.12613.lbickley@bickleywest.com> We run software (LabView) on a VXI/VME ATE (Automated Test Environment). It's possible to find 386/486/Pentium processors that are modules that run on the bus - DOS/Windows and Linux. It's also possible using an interface called "MXI" or "MXI-2" to use a standard PC with and MXI/MXI-2 interface to a VXI/VME MXI/MXI-2 interface to run just as if it were part of the VXI/VME bus. We use MXI-2 and a Windows/2000 workstation connected to a VXI/VME mainframe with lots of DA/AD, Multimeters, etc. This stuff is NOT cheap.... ePay or Test Equipment sites will all cost you serious $ for anything close to current (w/i 8 years or so). Lyle On Friday 21 May 2004 09:45, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Odd, perhaps even stupid question: > > > > I think it was stupid thing to do (the boards) > > > > > Was there ever a DOS-based VME computer? > > > > yup > > > > > If so, has anyone got one? Want to sell it? > > > > No, don't have any. But if you look at: > > > > http://www.vita.com/vmeprod/processorsindex.shtml > > > > You can choose the board you like, and go hunting ;-) > > Ok, so the next question is a bit more complex. > > If I've got a VME interface board, and I'd like to run a program that runs > under DOS on an ISA-based interface that does the same thing as the VME > board, will that program work with the VME board or is the entire > hardware/interrupt structure completely different? > > In other words, does MS-DOS think it's still running on an ISA system even > though it's on a VME system? Or was there a special MS-DOS made for VME > systems? > > I know I'm engaging in wishful thinking but I'm wondering if the DOS > software will work with the VME board. I suppose if its going through > BIOS then maybe, but my guess is that the software is directly accessing > the ISA board hardware and will not work with the VME board in a VME > system. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ss at allegro.com Fri May 21 13:04:49 2004 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Molecular computer, and, KAYPRO 10 available, Bytes, Microcomputing Message-ID: <40ADE251.28767.516BCB69@localhost> Hi, A guy in the S.F. Bay Area has the following available. I'll give the first couple of responders his contact info. Photos of most (but not the Molecular) at http://www.sieler.com/temp/computers.html His descriptions follow.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Molecular Computer First CP/M Multi-User where each user has their own CPU. About the size of a two drawer file cabinet. 14" 30MB hard disk 8" Floppy drive Each user had a Z80 4Mhz 64K with 2 serial ports Chassis could hold 30 CPU Cards. Included would be a couple of Televideo 925/950 Terminals. [SS: I've had some discussions with the lead designer for Molecular ... a very interesting computer!] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kaypro 10 First "Transportable computer with internal 10M Bytes hard disk" Z80 - 4Mhz 64K RAM 1 Floppy 5 1/4 400KB 10M Byte hard disk CP/M 2.2 With Cloth Carrying case Purchased in 1982 for $2,750 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From zmerch at 30below.com Fri May 21 13:59:35 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Molecular computer, and, KAYPRO 10 available, Bytes, Microcomputing In-Reply-To: <40ADE251.28767.516BCB69@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040521145706.04959180@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Stan Sieler may have mentioned these words: >His descriptions follow.... >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Molecular Computer >First CP/M Multi-User where each user has their own CPU. About the size of >a two drawer file cabinet. >14" 30MB hard disk >8" Floppy drive >Each user had a Z80 4Mhz 64K with 2 serial ports >Chassis could hold 30 CPU Cards. Sounds like an early flavo[u]r of a Blade server! Sounds kewl, but I've no room for it right now, and shipping to YooperLand would be *very* prohibitive... :-/ Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From donm at cts.com Fri May 21 14:39:11 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: DOS-based VME computer? In-Reply-To: <40AE2BE5.3050707@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Odd, perhaps even stupid question: > > I think it was stupid thing to do (the boards) > > > Was there ever a DOS-based VME computer? > > yup > > > If so, has anyone got one? Want to sell it? > > No, don't have any. But if you look at: > > http://www.vita.com/vmeprod/processorsindex.shtml > > You can choose the board you like, and go hunting ;-) And to pick a nit, shouldn't it be a VME based DOS computer? - don From arcarlini at iee.org Fri May 21 14:51:56 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003001c43f6d$127a0bf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Yes, indeed. Many of the original PC parts are getting very > hard to find > now. I guess because people considered them worthless :-( Almost all the stuff I've been given has been given to me by people or organisations who consider it to be worthless or almost worthless. The only exceptions seem to be the stuff for which I pay a nominal sum or the stuff given to me by other collectors. Quite how last year's Tek 2465 can be considered worthless (or this week's S4 Eprom programmer, admittedly sans PSU) I don't know, but somehow I managed to stay quiet. I may even stay quiet when I ask about the PowerPC emulation system (although I guess that will be off-topic for a good while yet :-)). Long live people with no sense of value :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 21 15:35:57 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: What the best to repair battery contacts In-Reply-To: <00a501c43f4a$ec029ae0$18406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040521163557.00888530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Clean them them with Lime-Away (full strength). Wash with with plain water and dry. Then solder on copper or nickel plated brass or steel sheet to form new contacts. Joe At 10:46 AM 5/21/04 -0500, you wrote: >I have several items (calculators, robots, Mac's, etc) that I'm trying to >restore and the battery acid has eaten away the battery contacts. Anyone >have a easy way or source to get new contacts to replace the damaged ones? >Thanks > > From acme at gbronline.com Fri May 21 15:53:14 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: ET-3400 (was: Re: Dayton Hamvention) References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma><6.0.3.0.2.20040520120156.06a70080@enigma> <5.1.0.14.2.20040520173340.0497ddd8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <016201c43f75$a39e4a80$f94f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Dayton Hamvention > Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: > >On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 12:36:58PM -0400, Dan Veeneman wrote: > > > Friday weather was pretty good. Classic computer-wise I picked up > > > a Heathkit ET-3400 with the Memory I/O expansion, along with all > > > the manuals. > > > >I've been keeping my eye out for one of these - I missed the one > >that recently went on ePay for $41 because of satellite problems. :-( > > I missed it because of Dayton problems -- no internet connection... I'm the schmuck who snagged it for $41. Sorry, guys. Anyone know where I can get an expansion unit? Later -- Glen 0/0 From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri May 21 16:57:38 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: What the best to repair battery contacts References: <3.0.6.32.20040521163557.00888530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <015501c43f7e$a3632730$18406b43@66067007> Thanks for the tips, I will put them to work on one of the robots first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: What the best to repair battery contacts > Clean them them with Lime-Away (full strength). Wash with with plain > water and dry. Then solder on copper or nickel plated brass or steel sheet > to form new contacts. > > Joe > > > At 10:46 AM 5/21/04 -0500, you wrote: > >I have several items (calculators, robots, Mac's, etc) that I'm trying to > >restore and the battery acid has eaten away the battery contacts. Anyone > >have a easy way or source to get new contacts to replace the damaged ones? > >Thanks > > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri May 21 17:49:25 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 21 May 2004 16:03 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? > > > Has anyone got the system disks for the Sanyo MBC 555? If > so, Tiziano in Italy needs them. Please contact him at > . I did copies of mine for another collector before I realised he was only going to ebay his stuff once he got them so they're still here....will they do for him? Cheers w From bshannon at tiac.net Fri May 21 19:07:12 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago References: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> <200405210502.BAA12316@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40AE99B0.7090808@tiac.net> Wake up and smell the coffee here.... Your not taking it either! No one is, thats my point. der Mouse wrote: >>I've attempted to GIVE AWAY a working Tek 547 with 3 or 4 plug-ins >>and the original 'scopemobile' cart. >> > >>Zero takers. >> > >You must not have tried anywhere I had access to! I'd love to get my >hands on a good 'scope, and yes, I too would prefer a good old tube >'scope to one of today's "let's digitize everything in sight as a first >step" crop. > >About all that would stop me from grabbing such a thing would be >outrageous shipping charges (or, I suppose, if it's physically so huge >I couldn't fit it into my workshop - and it'd take more than I've ever >seen in a 'scope to do that). > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri May 21 19:02:29 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <003001c43f6d$127a0bf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003001c43f6d$127a0bf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040521190229.224e426d.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 21 May 2004 20:51:56 +0100 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > > Yes, indeed. Many of the original PC parts are getting very > > hard to find > > now. I guess because people considered them worthless :-( > > Almost all the stuff I've been given has been given to me by > people or organisations who consider it to be worthless or > almost worthless. The only exceptions seem to be the stuff > for which I pay a nominal sum or the stuff given to me by > other collectors. > > Quite how last year's Tek 2465 can be considered worthless > (or this week's S4 Eprom programmer, admittedly sans PSU) > I don't know, but somehow I managed to stay quiet. I may > even stay quiet when I ask about the PowerPC emulation > system (although I guess that will be off-topic for a > good while yet :-)). > > Long live people with no sense of value :-) > I just started contract work at a big company that produces automotive and appliance controls. I've been surprised by the ancient machines they're actively using in the test labs to control machines and acquire test data. There are IBM XT's all over the place. The newest boxes in the lab are old 386 and 486 mini-towers with tiny hard drives, running MS-DOS. They drive stepper motors, acquire data, etc., using GW Basic programs. In talking to the old timers I've discovered they made a slow reluctulant transition to the PCs from Commodore 64's. I am not talking about some small-time company, either, they make controls that go into GM cars and Maytag appliances. I've noticed one Commodore 64 still deployed in the lab, it's an SX-64 portable. So there are companies, even divisions of Fortune 500 companies, that still value ancient old PC hardware, and use it every day. Scott From bshannon at tiac.net Fri May 21 19:09:30 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: ADM3's Where did they go? References: Message-ID: <40AE9A3A.8030501@tiac.net> Well, I ~may~ have a blue one for sale at VCF East... Only we've never heard back after leaving phone messages about registering as a vendor! Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 20 May 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > >>To all who expressed interest in getting one of the ADM3's I was hoping to >>pick up next weekend, I just got the e-Mail which I am attaching below. As >>you can tell, I will not get getting them. I will try to contact each of the >>people who sent me e-mail directly, but wanted to post initially to the list >>so you would all know.... >> > >Ok, the scarcity of ADM3's has just jumped due to this. They are now >worth $150 each. > >:) > From arcarlini at iee.org Fri May 21 19:08:24 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <20040521190229.224e426d.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004e01c43f90$e7008cf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > So there are companies, even divisions of Fortune 500 > companies, that still value ancient old PC hardware, and use > it every day. I guess being in the computer industry, and often the cutting-edge bits, pretty much anywhere I'm likely to work for will be full of the latest, fastest kit. It's good to know that there are places that don't ditch the old just to make room for the new ... that way - since they *will* eventually ditch it - the supply of older kit will be evened out! And maybe I'll find some storage space :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri May 21 19:13:46 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: <200405210502.BAA12316@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <40AD2E40.7010604@tiac.net> <200405210502.BAA12316@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040521191346.09a7f3e3.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 21 May 2004 01:00:25 -0400 (EDT) der Mouse wrote: > > I've attempted to GIVE AWAY a working Tek 547 with 3 or 4 plug-ins > > and the original 'scopemobile' cart. > > > Zero takers. > > You must not have tried anywhere I had access to! I'd love to get my > hands on a good 'scope, and yes, I too would prefer a good old tube > 'scope to one of today's "let's digitize everything in sight as a > first step" crop. > > About all that would stop me from grabbing such a thing would be > outrageous shipping charges (or, I suppose, if it's physically so huge > I couldn't fit it into my workshop - and it'd take more than I've ever > seen in a 'scope to do that). > I would hold out for a newer solid-state but not 'digital' scope. I got a Tektronix 7000 series mainframe at auction last summer for $5 and a stack of plugins, including the sensitive differential plugin, several dual traces, and the fast (100 MHz) Differential comparator plug-in for $5 apiece at the same auction. Also snagged a 5000 series mainframe with plug-ins at the same auction for $5, and an old rackmount tube model from the 500-series era. Those old tube Tek scopes are what got us to the Moon, and they have fabulous construction. That silver-solder on ceramic construction is designed to last forever. People severely undervalue the old analog Tek scopes these days. And the 7000 series are some of the greatest scopes ever made. The old 500 series tube scopes are technological marvels, and items of beauty to collect, but the newer 7000 series scopes are items of beauty to use. I wouldn't be without either in my lab, of course. For non-collectors who aren't instrumentation-geeks, if you want just one useful scope, the 465 or 475 are highly recommended. I personally avoid anything in the Tek 2400 series because they used custom ICs, and quit producing said ICs years ago. If you have a pile of 2465 'scopes to scavenge from you're set up to keep one running, otherwise they're a risky investment. To keep it on topic, I used to own a 547. The greatest general purpose tube-type (hybrid, actually) tube mainframe Tek made. If you want to be a purist, though, you should stick to a 545, which is all-tube (when I had one I counted over 100 tubes just in the time base) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:38:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Components I don't need In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at May 20, 4 08:03:14 pm Message-ID: > > Hi, > > I recently inherited a bunch of TTL and such from a list member (thanks, > Zane!), and after going through it all, I find there are several items where > I don't know how to, or otherwise can't, use them. These are basically free > to a good home (postage would be good). Many of them look like they might One word of warning. A few of thos chips (it's obvious which ones) were classed as 'munitions' and can't legally be exported from teh States without the right paperwork. I assume this is still the case. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:40:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 38 (Was: ADM-3A) In-Reply-To: <20040521061835.21002.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at May 20, 4 11:18:35 pm Message-ID: > Well, no, the problem with these CRT's is that they > have a RTV-like implosion shield between the front of > the tube and another layer of glass. Over time, the > RTV develops a mold from the edges in and the tube Ah, that well-lnown problem.... > looks horrible and becomes unusable. I worked up the > guts to cut between the tube and the plate with a > nichrome wire. Not recommended for the sane. I Is anyone here sane? I know I'm not. > replaced the shield with aquarium RTV at the edges. Since the bonding between the 2 pieces of glass is part of the implosion protection system of the CRT, I am a little worried that the new RTV might not be as strong or something. I would not want to be in front of a CRT when it implodes if the protection is not adequate... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:48:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <40ADC15F.70205@pacbell.net> from "William Maddox" at May 21, 4 01:44:15 am Message-ID: > I have a "Casper" brand monochrome monitor, dumped by a neighbor when > he moved. It has a 9-pin connector on it, though only 6 pins are > actually fitted. It does not power up, and I have nothing to drive it Quite normal. 2 grounds, Hsync, Vsync, video, and intensity. > with anyhow. It is in nice physical/cosmetic condition, and is likely > repairable. It's available for the cost of shipping to anyone who wants > it. I have (not up for grabs) a Zenith mono monitor. It had what I called the 'Irish PSU' (note for non UK people, over here 'Irish' jokes are much the same as Polish jokes...). This combines the ease-of-repair of a switcher with the efficiency of a linear PSU (for the software types, that's roughly like combining the ease-of-understanding of machine code with the speed of an Interpetted HLL :-)). Seriously, this PSU started out by rectifying the mains, then fed it to a free-running chopper with no regulation applied. This drove a little transformer which gave out about 20V peak AC. This was rectified and smoothed, then fed to a discrete-transistor linear regulator (which used the green power-on LED as the reference !) to provide the 12V line used by the rest of the monitor. Notince I am talking i nthe past tense. One day the chopper transistor failed. After many attempts at replacing it, and killing many expensive transsitors, I did what I should have done in the first place. I removed the chopper and mains rectifier circuitry and replaced it with a mains-frequency transformer. Increased the smoothing capacitor on the secondary side (after all, the original transformer worked at about 1000 time the frequencyt of the mains). Worked fine for several years And then the picture collapsed horizontally and faded out. I suspected a line output stage problem, but was amazed to find the fault was the line driver transformer, one of the windings of which was open-circuit. That was simple enough to rewind by hand, which is what I did. And it's still working. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:51:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. In-Reply-To: <16558.3981.258377.41816@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 21, 4 10:17:49 am Message-ID: > Yes -- three rows of keys rather than four on the keyboard, that's the > giveway. (It doesn't necessarily work that way on other company's > products, but Teletype's 5 bit machines have 3 row keyboards.) Older Creeds have 3-row keyboards, in fact the Murray code has the characters assigned so that the Figs shift of QWERTYUIOP are 1-0 in order, if you see what I mean. Later Creeds, like the famous 444, have 4-row keyboards with a mechanical blocking arrangement so you can only press those keys for the shift (LETs or FIGs) that the machine thinks it's currently in. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:55:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: What the best to repair battery contacts In-Reply-To: <00a501c43f4a$ec029ae0$18406b43@66067007> from "Keys" at May 21, 4 10:46:49 am Message-ID: > > I have several items (calculators, robots, Mac's, etc) that I'm trying to > restore and the battery acid has eaten away the battery contacts. Anyone Are you sure it's acid. NiCds and alkaline primary cells (Duracell, etc) have an alkaline elecrolyte. The first thing to do is neutralise any residues. A solution of citric acid works on alkaline residues, I asusme sodium carbonate (washing soda) solution works on acid residues. > have a easy way or source to get new contacts to replace the damaged ones? If you want the conincal spring type of contact, then I normally buy a cheap battery holder, drill out the rivets and use the springs from that. For flat metal contacts, I make them from metal stip from a model shop (they were oriignally nickel plated, but plain brass works in most cases). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:58:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <003001c43f6d$127a0bf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at May 21, 4 08:51:56 pm Message-ID: > > > Yes, indeed. Many of the original PC parts are getting very > > hard to find > > now. I guess because people considered them worthless :-( > > Almost all the stuff I've been given has been given to me by > people or organisations who consider it to be worthless or > almost worthless. The only exceptions seem to be the stuff Ture.... But many computer collectors (or should I really say old computer enthusiasts) regard PC stuff as pretty darn boring and not worth collecting (I don't much care for it either...). > Quite how last year's Tek 2465 can be considered worthless > (or this week's S4 Eprom programmer, admittedly sans PSU) In my case, a pair of HP9100Bs, many PDP8s and PDP11s, and 4 PERQs (one of each series!). At least. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 18:35:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: <200405210502.BAA12316@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 21, 4 01:00:25 am Message-ID: > You must not have tried anywhere I had access to! I'd love to get my FWIW, I didn't hear about this 547 (although I would not have been able to take it -- they are rather to heavy to ship across the Pond :-)) > About all that would stop me from grabbing such a thing would be > outrageous shipping charges (or, I suppose, if it's physically so huge The 547 is not that big, but it's not small either. Regard it as a bench instrument, not a portable (for all it has a carrying handle...). > I couldn't fit it into my workshop - and it'd take more than I've ever > seen in a 'scope to do that). Be careful. Tekky made a thing (I believe) that was a 'scope in 2 6' rack cabitnets. One of them had a set of bays for 7000-series plug-ins, and a special storage tube mounted vertically in the rack. The other contained a PDP11 (I want to say 11/40). The incloming signal was stored in the tube, then read out using a second electron gun, digitised and fed to the '11 for processing. In the fays before ns ADCs this was about the only way to do it. -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri May 21 19:18:33 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: What the best to repair battery contacts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040521163557.00888530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <00a501c43f4a$ec029ae0$18406b43@66067007> <3.0.6.32.20040521163557.00888530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040521191833.5204cf88.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 21 May 2004 16:35:57 -0400 "Joe R." wrote: > Clean them them with Lime-Away (full strength). Wash with with plain > water and dry. Then solder on copper or nickel plated brass or steel > sheet to form new contacts. > > Joe > > > At 10:46 AM 5/21/04 -0500, you wrote: > >I have several items (calculators, robots, Mac's, etc) that I'm > >trying to restore and the battery acid has eaten away the battery > >contacts. Anyone have a easy way or source to get new contacts to > >replace the damaged ones? Thanks > > > > If you need contacts that are 'springy' you would be better off using phosphor-bronze contacts salvaged off something else. You can steal them from a junk transistor radio or other portable equipment. Ordinary steel, copper, or brass won't retain shape for long. I used to do 'drop tests' on medical devices with battery compartments earlier in life. From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri May 21 19:24:16 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word 2.0 and 4.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040521192416.0398403b.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 21 May 2004 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I'm looking for Microsoft Word (Windows) version 2.0 and 4.0. Has > anyone got these in the original cartons with original media and > manuals? > > If so, I'm willing to pay up to $40 each. Please contact me directly > at. > > Thanks! > There never was such a thing as Word for Windows 4.0. Microsoft syncronized versions with Word for Mac and jumped directly from Winword 2.0 to Winword 5.0. Word for Windows 2.0 is actually a pretty cool binary. You can just cart the single winword.exe file around, which fits on a floppy diskette. It gives you the full (minus features like spell checking, etc.) word processor, and also the Visual Basic engine in a format you can plug into any (from Windows 3.0 upward) machine unfortunate enough to be running Windows, and the binary will load and run fine. I always keep a copy of winword.exe lying around. It probably even runs well in Wine on Linux. Microsoft Word for DOS 5.5 is a better deal, though, if you're stuck on an Intel box and want a Word Processor with real speed. It's probably even on-topic here by now. Sorta, in a painful way. From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 19:25:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Witchy wrote: > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > > Computer Festival > > Sent: 21 May 2004 16:03 > > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > > Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? > > > > > > Has anyone got the system disks for the Sanyo MBC 555? If > > so, Tiziano in Italy needs them. Please contact him at > > . > > I did copies of mine for another collector before I realised he was only > going to ebay his stuff once he got them so they're still here....will they > do for him? I'm sure that'll do just fine for him (and I'm pretty certain he will not be ebaying them ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 19:26:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: ADM3's Where did they go? In-Reply-To: <40AE9A3A.8030501@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Bob Shannon wrote: > Well, I ~may~ have a blue one for sale at VCF East... > > Only we've never heard back after leaving phone messages about registering > as a vendor! I know, I know, I'm sorry! I got the message and it's on my callback list but I've been so swamped lately that I haven't had time to tend to certain matters. I swear I'll be caught up this weekend. I was supposed to be caught up last weekend and now I'm sure Evan is pissed at me :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 21 19:28:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 38 (Was: ADM-3A) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Is anyone here sane? I know I'm not. > > > replaced the shield with aquarium RTV at the edges. > > Since the bonding between the 2 pieces of glass is part of the implosion > protection system of the CRT, I am a little worried that the new RTV > might not be as strong or something. I would not want to be in front of a > CRT when it implodes if the protection is not adequate... Keeping within the insane theme, just wear safety goggles whenever you compute in front of that display and everything will be fine if it does go. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From zmerch at 30below.com Fri May 21 19:55:00 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: VCF East Status... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040521204529.04948e40@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >I know, I know, I'm sorry! I got the message and it's on my callback list >but I've been so swamped lately that I haven't had time to tend to certain >matters. Sounds familiar... ;-) Not to heap "yet another thing" onto the plate, but has anyone gotten info on any lodging deals as of yet? I've got the time off & the okeydokey from the Big Boss (a.k.a. Wife, granted, to garner such permission I promised to bring her along & toss in a Lobster dinner as well... ;-) and so any hotel/motel deals would be kewl... Oh, maps / points of interest would be neat, too. Other than the VCF, my big thing is I want to tour the Sam Adams brewery... hehehe... >I swear I'll be caught up this weekend. I was supposed to be caught up >last weekend and now I'm sure Evan is pissed at me :( Famous last words, eh? I've been swearing about being caught up "by this weekend" for... hell... 15 years now. ;^> I finally got most of what I needed to get done *last month* thru this week... Heck, at this rate, I'll have to retire by the time I'm 40, just to have enough time to catch up on all the stuff I need to do before I die![1] Laterz, and thanks! Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] And that's if I live to be 80... anything after that should be gravy... ;-) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From zmerch at 30below.com Fri May 21 19:55:21 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: VCF East Status... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040521205513.0484b938@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >I know, I know, I'm sorry! I got the message and it's on my callback list >but I've been so swamped lately that I haven't had time to tend to certain >matters. Sounds familiar... ;-) Not to heap "yet another thing" onto the plate, but has anyone gotten info on any lodging deals as of yet? I've got the time off & the okeydokey from the Big Boss (a.k.a. Wife, granted, to garner such permission I promised to bring her along & toss in a Lobster dinner as well... ;-) and so any hotel/motel deals would be kewl... Oh, maps / points of interest would be neat, too. Other than the VCF, my big thing is I want to tour the Sam Adams brewery... hehehe... >I swear I'll be caught up this weekend. I was supposed to be caught up >last weekend and now I'm sure Evan is pissed at me :( Famous last words, eh? I've been swearing about being caught up "by this weekend" for... hell... 15 years now. ;^> I finally got most of what I needed to get done *last month* thru this week... Heck, at this rate, I'll have to retire by the time I'm 40, just to have enough time to catch up on all the stuff I need to do before I die![1] Laterz, and thanks! Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] And that's if I live to be 80... anything after that should be gravy... ;-) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From vrs at msn.com Fri May 21 20:02:52 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Components I don't need References: Message-ID: > > I recently inherited a bunch of TTL and such from a list member (thanks, > > Zane!), and after going through it all, I find there are several items where > > I don't know how to, or otherwise can't, use them. These are basically free > > to a good home (postage would be good). Many of them look like they might > > One word of warning. A few of thos chips (it's obvious which ones) were > classed as 'munitions' and can't legally be exported from teh States > without the right paperwork. I assume this is still the case. Those are the ones with the most interest, too :-)! Actually I have only heard from one party so far, and he happened to want those, and others. Still have about half the original pile with no takers, though. Vince From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri May 21 20:37:47 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home Message-ID: <155.35854026.2de008eb@aol.com> > So there are companies, even divisions of Fortune 500 > companies, that still value ancient old PC hardware, and use > it every day. At some companies, they are STILL running Atari MegaST computers that run inserting machines in their statement processing centers! I'm trying to get my hands on one since I know they just get tossed out eventually. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri May 21 20:54:41 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. References: Message-ID: <034601c43f9f$bfe1c210$6a00a8c0@athlon> Prior to the 444 and other late model machines, Creed had both three (N3) and four row (N4) keyboards for use on the 7B, 54 etc series teleprinters. They also had a diabolically cunning thing called the CTK(Commercial Typerwriter Keyboard) that automatically inserted the appropriate case shift signals as required--mechanically! Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. > > Yes -- three rows of keys rather than four on the keyboard, that's the > > giveway. (It doesn't necessarily work that way on other company's > > products, but Teletype's 5 bit machines have 3 row keyboards.) > > Older Creeds have 3-row keyboards, in fact the Murray code has the > characters assigned so that the Figs shift of QWERTYUIOP are 1-0 in > order, if you see what I mean. > > Later Creeds, like the famous 444, have 4-row keyboards with a mechanical > blocking arrangement so you can only press those keys for the shift (LETs > or FIGs) that the machine thinks it's currently in. > > -tony > From aek at spies.com Fri May 21 21:38:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals Message-ID: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> > I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not sure of > the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. like this one? http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/beehive/MiniBee_Svc_Mar74.pdf From donm at cts.com Fri May 21 22:39:15 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <20040521190229.224e426d.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 2004 20:51:56 +0100 > "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > > > > Yes, indeed. Many of the original PC parts are getting very > > > hard to find > > > now. I guess because people considered them worthless :-( > > > > Almost all the stuff I've been given has been given to me by > > people or organisations who consider it to be worthless or > > almost worthless. The only exceptions seem to be the stuff > > for which I pay a nominal sum or the stuff given to me by > > other collectors. > > > > Quite how last year's Tek 2465 can be considered worthless > > (or this week's S4 Eprom programmer, admittedly sans PSU) > > I don't know, but somehow I managed to stay quiet. I may > > even stay quiet when I ask about the PowerPC emulation > > system (although I guess that will be off-topic for a > > good while yet :-)). > > > > Long live people with no sense of value :-) > > > > I just started contract work at a big company that produces automotive > and appliance controls. I've been surprised by the ancient machines > they're actively using in the test labs to control machines and acquire > test data. There are IBM XT's all over the place. The newest boxes in > the lab are old 386 and 486 mini-towers with tiny hard drives, running > MS-DOS. They drive stepper motors, acquire data, etc., using GW Basic > programs. In talking to the old timers I've discovered they made a slow > reluctulant transition to the PCs from Commodore 64's. I am not talking > about some small-time company, either, they make controls that go into > GM cars and Maytag appliances. I've noticed one Commodore 64 still > deployed in the lab, it's an SX-64 portable. > > So there are companies, even divisions of Fortune 500 companies, that > still value ancient old PC hardware, and use it every day. > > > Scott > Just goes to show that there are still a few who believe the old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it! - don From donm at cts.com Fri May 21 22:56:25 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > I have a "Casper" brand monochrome monitor, dumped by a neighbor when > > he moved. It has a 9-pin connector on it, though only 6 pins are > > actually fitted. It does not power up, and I have nothing to drive it > > Quite normal. 2 grounds, Hsync, Vsync, video, and intensity. > > > with anyhow. It is in nice physical/cosmetic condition, and is likely > > repairable. It's available for the cost of shipping to anyone who wants > > it. > > I have (not up for grabs) a Zenith mono monitor. It had what I called the > 'Irish PSU' (note for non UK people, over here 'Irish' jokes are much the > same as Polish jokes...). This combines the ease-of-repair of a switcher > with the efficiency of a linear PSU (for the software types, that's > roughly like combining the ease-of-understanding of machine code with the > speed of an Interpetted HLL :-)). Well, we in the colonies used to enjoy that type of joke, but over the years have managed to hyper-sensitize just about all ethnic groups, such that you put your health - physical or financial - in jeopardy if you tell one. It tends to bring out dirty looks, unfriendly comments or the "everyone is picking on me" society - aka: American Civil Liberties Union - which can get expensive in keeping some lawyer well off. - don > Seriously, this PSU started out by rectifying the mains, then fed it to a > free-running chopper with no regulation applied. This drove a little > transformer which gave out about 20V peak AC. This was rectified and > smoothed, then fed to a discrete-transistor linear regulator (which used > the green power-on LED as the reference !) to provide the 12V line used > by the rest of the monitor. > > Notince I am talking i nthe past tense. One day the chopper transistor > failed. After many attempts at replacing it, and killing many expensive > transsitors, I did what I should have done in the first place. I removed > the chopper and mains rectifier circuitry and replaced it with a > mains-frequency transformer. Increased the smoothing capacitor on the > secondary side (after all, the original transformer worked at about 1000 > time the frequencyt of the mains). Worked fine for several years > > And then the picture collapsed horizontally and faded out. I suspected a > line output stage problem, but was amazed to find the fault was the line > driver transformer, one of the windings of which was open-circuit. That > was simple enough to rewind by hand, which is what I did. And it's still > working. > > -tony > From donm at cts.com Fri May 21 23:18:47 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > > Computer Festival > > Sent: 21 May 2004 16:03 > > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > > Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? > > > > > > Has anyone got the system disks for the Sanyo MBC 555? If > > so, Tiziano in Italy needs them. Please contact him at > > . > > I did copies of mine for another collector before I realised he was only > going to ebay his stuff once he got them so they're still here....will they > do for him? > > Cheers > > w I sent him a TeleDisk image of a boot disk. No response yet. - don From esharpe at uswest.net Fri May 21 23:27:14 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> Message-ID: <000701c43fb5$110160f0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> ah yes.... often referred to us in the old days as "the hives" used to use them with the hp 2000 system! guess for old times sake we need to find one at some point..... great manual Al... indeed a flash from the past! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals > > > I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not sure of > > the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. > > like this one? > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/beehive/MiniBee_Svc_Mar74.pdf > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 23:45:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: HP computers / test gear in Chicago In-Reply-To: <20040521191346.09a7f3e3.sastevens@earthlink.net> from "Scott Stevens" at May 21, 4 07:13:46 pm Message-ID: > I would hold out for a newer solid-state but not 'digital' scope. I got > a Tektronix 7000 series mainframe at auction last summer for $5 and a Having used a Tekky 7000 series a few years back (actually a 7904 + assorted plug-ins) I will agree they're great 'scopes _but_ they're stuffed with custom chips that are long-since unobtainable. I wouldn't want to have to repair one... > To keep it on topic, I used to own a 547. The greatest general purpose > tube-type (hybrid, actually) tube mainframe Tek made. If you want to be > a purist, though, you should stick to a 545, which is all-tube (when I > had one I counted over 100 tubes just in the time base) Eh? The 545 is complicated, but 100 valves in the timebase? I could believe -- just -- 100 valves in the mainframe, particularly with that distributed Y amplifier, but not in just the timebase. Personally, I have a 555. Mostly valved (but with some transistors in the trigger circuits), twin everything. Twin beam (with 2 distributed Y amplifiers), twin timebase, twin EHT PSU, twin box (separate HT PSU unit that sits on the bottom of the scopemobile), etc. Fortunately I have the service manual. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 22 08:08:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: What the best to repair battery contacts In-Reply-To: <20040521191833.5204cf88.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040521163557.00888530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <00a501c43f4a$ec029ae0$18406b43@66067007> <3.0.6.32.20040521163557.00888530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040522090809.00993b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:18 PM 5/21/04 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 21 May 2004 16:35:57 -0400 >"Joe R." wrote: > >> Clean them them with Lime-Away (full strength). Wash with with plain >> water and dry. Then solder on copper or nickel plated brass or steel >> sheet to form new contacts. >> >> Joe >> >> >> At 10:46 AM 5/21/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >I have several items (calculators, robots, Mac's, etc) that I'm >> >trying to restore and the battery acid has eaten away the battery >> >contacts. Anyone have a easy way or source to get new contacts to >> >replace the damaged ones? Thanks >> > >> > > >If you need contacts that are 'springy' you would be better off using >phosphor-bronze contacts salvaged off something else. If it uses a springy contact, that's true. It all depends on what kind of contact it had. Most of the ones that I work on are flat and backed up by a plastic wall. BTW i found that the disposable cameras are a good source of the springy contacts. They look like brass but are springier. I have a friend that works in a photo shop and he gives me all the cameras that I want. They're a great source of batteries! And they use some surprisingly good parts in them. BTW I found that the local surplus store has some of little curly pointed springs that are made of silver plated steel. I bought a couple of hundred of them. They have a "tail" on the big end that sticks straight out to the side and they're easy to solder to or to reshape to fit into battery compartments. I made hundreds of springs sets for the HP-41 battery holders by soldering two of them together. Joe You can steal >them from a junk transistor radio or other portable equipment. Ordinary >steel, copper, or brass won't retain shape for long. I used to do 'drop >tests' on medical devices with battery compartments earlier in life. > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat May 22 08:29:35 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> Message-ID: <001801c44000$d30ae220$033310ac@kwcorp.com> The picture is a bit fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure that's the one I'm looking for! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals > > > I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not sure of > > the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. > > like this one? > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/beehive/MiniBee_Svc_Mar74.pdf > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Sat May 22 09:53:14 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K References: <200405200044.RAA12730@floodgap.com><00ad01c43e8f$86a93ca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20040520224921.106ce7cc.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001c01c4400c$82dfb260$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > You might try one of the later releases of 1.6 > (1.6.1 comes to mind) and see if that runs better. This page makes plain the 68LC040 problems: http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/mac68k/curr_info.html but it's talking about the 1.3.3 release. Where a better place to look?... perhaps nothing significant with Mac68K has been done since 1.3.3? searching further: ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-1.6.2/mac68k/INSTALL.html "NetBSD has known but unresolved problems running on the 68LC040 processor, ... ...Software emulation of floating point operations is not a problem on the 68020 and 68030 processors." (the last note actually makes the older Macs look better) Looks like chip replacement is the only option. If somebody has a good source for 68K chips in the quantity=5 range, I'd be interested. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 22 10:48:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals In-Reply-To: <001801c44000$d30ae220$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040522114859.0084e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> About two years ago I found a new in box Beehive terminal. I advertised it on this list and elsewhere and never got a single response so I finally threw it out. Joe At 08:29 AM 5/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >The picture is a bit fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure that's the one I'm looking >for! > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Al Kossow" >To: >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:38 PM >Subject: Re: Beehive: was Lear Siegler ADM3 terminals > > >> >> > I also have been looking for a particular mini-beehive terminal. Not >sure of >> > the exact model, I'd have to see a picture. >> >> like this one? >> >> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/beehive/MiniBee_Svc_Mar74.pdf >> >> > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From ken at fraserhouse.com Sat May 22 11:09:20 2004 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: <2EBA2051248C60A8385F091A@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> Message-ID: <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 Connection Machine in the wild? For those not familiar with it: http://mission.base.com/tamiko/cm/ Ken From musicman at satcom.whit.org Sat May 22 11:39:00 2004 From: musicman at satcom.whit.org (Musicman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Wanted Commodore Equipment In-Reply-To: <200405221607.i4MG7qhf067556@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000801c4401b$4c8ead10$38c1a145@yodaddyjx4rlzz> Although I would prefer a nice VAX or PDP in my basement, I can't afford 'the big boys'. Does anyone want to get rid of any old Commodore Equip? I need anything from C-64 up, and any accessories (tape drive, disk drive, software). I almost had a PET that was at the Goodwill, until one of the employess grabbed it and said they already bought it...yeah right! Thanks musicman@satcom.whit.org From bshannon at tiac.net Sat May 22 12:12:33 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:45 2005 Subject: Connection Machine References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> Message-ID: <40AF8A01.9030302@tiac.net> I helped build the CM-1! Ken Campbell wrote: > Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 > Connection Machine in the wild? > > For those not familiar with it: http://mission.base.com/tamiko/cm/ > > Ken > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat May 22 12:25:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> Message-ID: <1085246705.2963.3.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-05-22 at 16:09, Ken Campbell wrote: > Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 > Connection Machine in the wild? No, but wow! Surprised they aren't commonly seen on movie sets :-) cheers Jules From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat May 22 12:47:40 2004 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Power Supply In-Reply-To: <200405202308.i4KN8Ohj049838@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040522174740.72574.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> I once had an Apple IIc that didn't have a power supply. Radio Shack sells a regulated 15v supply, rather inexpensively, and I bought that and made up a cable to go from that to the IIc. It worked nicely until the unit was stolen from my car. I've since gotten another with a monitor, the stand and a power supply. I am looking for a Laser128EX. I did a lot of programming on one of those, back in the day. Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 22 12:59:39 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Wanted Commodore Equipment In-Reply-To: <000801c4401b$4c8ead10$38c1a145@yodaddyjx4rlzz> References: <000801c4401b$4c8ead10$38c1a145@yodaddyjx4rlzz> Message-ID: >Although I would prefer a nice VAX or PDP in my basement, I can't afford >'the big boys'. Does anyone want to get rid of any old Commodore Equip? >I need anything from C-64 up, and any accessories (tape drive, disk >drive, software). I almost had a PET that was at the Goodwill, until one >of the employess grabbed it and said they already bought it...yeah >right! Thanks musicman@satcom.whit.org It would help if people knew roughly where in the world you are. Who knows someone in your area might even have a VAX or PDP to get rid of, it does happen. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From shirsch at adelphia.net Sat May 22 13:14:17 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Still looking for the Alpha Microsystems VideoTrax PC interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I'm still seeking out the PC interface for the Alpha Microsystems > VideoTrax VHS tape drive. I've scored the drive (which is just a slightly > modded Panasonic VCR) but I still need the interface, which is the last > important piece of this puzzle I'm working on. > > I have no idea what it would look like exactly. It probably has some > phono jacks on the back, and a one or two row header with anywhere from 4 > to 8 pins. It probably is labeled "Alpha Microsystems". > > If anyone's got such a beast then you will be my New Best Friend :) I have one of these. I've talked to you about getting the software and docs for it. No idea if it works or not. E-Mail privately with an offer? Steve -- Quote of the Year: "The five person voting panel voted 57 to 3.14 in favour of getting rid of the Diebold machines." - 'Downside' From kahrs at caip.rutgers.edu Sat May 22 13:33:07 2004 From: kahrs at caip.rutgers.edu (Mark Kahrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention (slight return) Message-ID: <200405221833.i4MIX7KO026960@caip.rutgers.edu> To paraphrase my friend Bob: "It ain't Dayton if it don't rain". Friday was the best day in my 3 years of going. I do recall seeing a SPARC 5 on basically standing in a puddle. I saw several SPARCStations around as well as a Netra T1. Oh yes, a PILE of Data General multiprocessor 386 RAIDs (was this their last machine?). List price was $75 each. If you wanted soldering stuff, this was the year to go, lots of different irons and tips. Last year there was an oversupply of cables; I didn't see that this year. And lots of small capacity disks everywhere. At least it was warmer this year than last but the rain makes it difficult just because everything is covered. I'll go next year just because it's fun to see what's there. And to see how the maxim "One man's junk is another man's treasure" applies... From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat May 22 13:47:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention (slight return) References: <200405221833.i4MIX7KO026960@caip.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: <005401c4402d$4d996120$5a281941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kahrs" To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: Dayton Hamvention (slight return) > To paraphrase my friend Bob: "It ain't Dayton if it don't rain". Friday was > the best day in my 3 years of going. I do recall seeing a SPARC 5 on > basically standing in a puddle. I saw several SPARCStations around > as well as a Netra T1. Oh yes, a PILE of Data General multiprocessor > 386 RAIDs (was this their last machine?). List price was $75 each. > If you wanted soldering stuff, this was the year to go, lots of different > irons and tips. Last year there was an oversupply of cables; I didn't > see that this year. And lots of small capacity disks everywhere. > > At least it was warmer this year than last but the rain makes it difficult > just because everything is covered. > > I'll go next year just because it's fun to see what's there. > And to see how the maxim "One man's junk is another man's treasure" applies... > > How much were the small capacity disks going for on average? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 22 13:59:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Velleman PC Function Generator & Scope? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040522145934.0087fe30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm considering buying one of the Velleman PCG10AU PC-based Function Generators and one of the Velleman PCS500AU PC-based oscilloscopes from Designnotes.com. Has anyone had any experince with either of thse items or with Designnotes? Joe From medavidson at mac.com Sat May 22 16:08:11 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Molecular computer, and, KAYPRO 10 available, Bytes, Microcomputing In-Reply-To: <40ADE251.28767.516BCB69@localhost> References: <40ADE251.28767.516BCB69@localhost> Message-ID: <221EDD4A-AC34-11D8-AC5B-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> If no one has claimed it, I'd love to find out more about it... I'm in the Bay Area. Mark Davidson medavidson@mac.com On May 21, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Stan Sieler wrote: > Hi, > > A guy in the S.F. Bay Area has the following available. > I'll give the first couple of responders his contact info. > > Photos of most (but not the Molecular) at > http://www.sieler.com/temp/computers.html > > His descriptions follow.... > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Molecular Computer > First CP/M Multi-User where each user has their own CPU. About the > size of > a two drawer file cabinet. > 14" 30MB hard disk > 8" Floppy drive > Each user had a Z80 4Mhz 64K with 2 serial ports > Chassis could hold 30 CPU Cards. > > Included would be a couple of Televideo 925/950 Terminals. > > [SS: I've had some discussions with the lead designer for Molecular ... > a very interesting computer!] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Kaypro 10 > First "Transportable computer with internal 10M Bytes hard disk" > Z80 - 4Mhz > 64K RAM > 1 Floppy 5 1/4 400KB > 10M Byte hard disk > CP/M 2.2 > With Cloth Carrying case > Purchased in 1982 for $2,750 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat May 22 16:16:54 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Wanted Commodore Equipment References: <000801c4401b$4c8ead10$38c1a145@yodaddyjx4rlzz> Message-ID: <000901c44042$2da19580$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Wanted Commodore Equipment > >Although I would prefer a nice VAX or PDP in my basement, I can't afford > >'the big boys'. Does anyone want to get rid of any old Commodore Equip? > >I need anything from C-64 up, and any accessories (tape drive, disk > >drive, software). I almost had a PET that was at the Goodwill, until one > >of the employess grabbed it and said they already bought it...yeah > >right! Thanks musicman@satcom.whit.org > > It would help if people knew roughly where in the world you are. I'd bet Colorado. Denver or Colorado Springs. Who > knows someone in your area might even have a VAX or PDP to get rid > of, it does happen. > > Zane > > > -- > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 22 16:41:20 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: AVAILABLE (NL): Fujitsu SMD drives and rack Message-ID: Hi, Just got it in, but cant use it: a very nice Fujitsu rack on casters, same form factor and looks as the DEC BA123, with space and rails to hold two 8" (Fuji) SMD drives. Yes, the drives are included. :) Given the size and weight, for local pickup only, in Holland. If interested, contact me off-list. Cheers, Fred From allain at panix.com Sat May 22 17:36:05 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Wanted Commodore Equipment References: <000801c4401b$4c8ead10$38c1a145@yodaddyjx4rlzz> Message-ID: <004401c4404d$2baaf4a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Although I would prefer a nice VAX or PDP in my basement, > I can't afford 'the big boys'. Does anyone want to get rid of any > old Commodore Equip? There are smaller VAX systems, from 100 pounds weight down to about 15 pounds. And they are sometimes Very easy to find, sometimes not, but on this list it should be easy for you. You said you were interested in a Pet... Heavier than the average VAX around in my house. John A. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat May 22 18:13:54 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Velleman PC Function Generator & Scope? References: <3.0.6.32.20040522145934.0087fe30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <03c201c44052$74312410$6a00a8c0@athlon> Joe Be aware that the Vellman scope is only an 8 bit vert res beast- there are 10,12 and 16 bit ones available from other sources (eg picotech) http://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope.html Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: Velleman PC Function Generator & Scope? > I'm considering buying one of the Velleman PCG10AU PC-based Function > Generators and one of the Velleman PCS500AU PC-based oscilloscopes from > Designnotes.com. Has anyone had any experince with either of thse items or > with Designnotes? > > Joe > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 22 18:17:26 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> Message-ID: <20040522231726.GA2106@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 12:09:20PM -0400, Ken Campbell wrote: > Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 > Connection Machine in the wild? NASA Ames, c. 1994. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-May-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76 F (-60.0 C) Windchill -113.4 F (-80.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 063 Barometer 671.6 mb (10945. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sat May 22 19:24:40 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Visual Technology Terminals models 55 and 310 Message-ID: For those that followed my ADM3 terminal saga, most of the "Lear Sieglers" turned out to actually be the above terminals (there is still a "mystery terminal" that I can't ID, I am going to have to post a picture somewhere...) Most of these have manufacture dates at or about 1981. Anybody have any info on these? What they emulate, if they are of any interest, etc. Want to take one (or 5) off my hands ;-) From allain at panix.com Sat May 22 19:35:08 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com><2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> <20040522231726.GA2106@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <021401c4405d$cda07e00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Oops Jurassic Park is on NBC right now. From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 22 20:08:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: <20040522231726.GA2106@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 12:09:20PM -0400, Ken Campbell wrote: > > Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 > > Connection Machine in the wild? > > NASA Ames, c. 1994. Technically, that's not "in the wild" ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sat May 22 21:13:18 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? Message-ID: Can anybody tell me anything about these? Found a little something I thought was word processor, but it actually looks like some sort of serial terminal using 80 column paper for output vs. a CRT. Very compact, kind of a neat looking little package. Googling has come up dry..... From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat May 22 22:06:12 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> NASA Ames, c. 1994. >>Technically, that's not "in the wild" ;) Having done some work for NASA (including being at Ames) in the late 80's, I can state that the time did (on rare occasion) get fairly "wild". From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 22 22:20:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Velleman PC Function Generator & Scope? In-Reply-To: <03c201c44052$74312410$6a00a8c0@athlon> References: <3.0.6.32.20040522145934.0087fe30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040522232031.0084c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, Thanks for pointing out Picotech. I'd been searching for others that made similar scopes but missed Picotech. Most everyone else only has 8 bit resolution. I was hoping the Velleman's new model, the PCS500, would have more but it doesn't. I like that Picotech ADC-200/100 but $880 is a bit steep! Joe At 11:13 AM 5/23/04 +1200, you wrote: >Joe >Be aware that the Vellman scope is only an 8 bit vert res beast- there are >10,12 and 16 bit ones available from other sources (eg picotech) >http://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope.html > >Dave Brown > Christchurch, NZ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 6:59 AM >Subject: Velleman PC Function Generator & Scope? > > >> I'm considering buying one of the Velleman PCG10AU PC-based Function >> Generators and one of the Velleman PCS500AU PC-based oscilloscopes from >> Designnotes.com. Has anyone had any experince with either of thse items or >> with Designnotes? >> >> Joe >> > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 22 22:56:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: References: <20040522231726.GA2106@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040523035631.GA23351@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 06:08:19PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 22 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 12:09:20PM -0400, Ken Campbell wrote: > > > Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 > > > Connection Machine in the wild? > > > > NASA Ames, c. 1994. > > Technically, that's not "in the wild" ;) In its "native habitat"? Surely that's in the wild (as compared to "on TV") I thought the question meant "seen one up close and in person" as opposed to "seen one on the cart on the way to the melter"... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-May-2004 03:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76 F (-60.0 C) Windchill -114.9 F (-81.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.7 kts Grid 066 Barometer 671.6 mb (10945. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 23 00:39:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > >>> NASA Ames, c. 1994. > > >>Technically, that's not "in the wild" ;) > > Having done some work for NASA (including being at Ames) in the late 80's, I > can state that the time did (on rare occasion) get fairly "wild". In a nerd sense or in a Plaboy Mansion sense? Anyway, I thought they were referring to the Computer History Museum. At any rate, "the wild" assumes post productive use and something that is sitting in a garage or at a ham fest or something. In that regard, I've not heard of a CM being found out "in the wild". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun May 23 01:08:22 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Power Supply In-Reply-To: <20040522174740.72574.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040522174740.72574.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <98A84082-AC7F-11D8-8B60-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 22, 2004, at 10:47 AM, Al Hartman wrote: > I once had an Apple IIc that didn't have a power > supply. > > Radio Shack sells a regulated 15v supply, rather > inexpensively, and I bought that and made up a cable > to go from that to the IIc. > > It worked nicely until the unit was stolen from my > car. > yeah, we tried building a supply since the Apple wanted 1.2 amps and the RS supply is only 1 amp. Finally we could not get the thing to put out the right voltage so we bought one of the RS ones.. My Brother still wants a real one though. Did you ever have the 2nd floppy hooked up? how did the 1 amp RS power supply work for that? We have also seen a condition where the screen gets *wavy*, power cycle fixes that (did you save your basic program recently?) From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun May 23 02:13:15 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040523071315.GA13733@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 10:39:18PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Anyway, I thought they were referring to the Computer History Museum. At > any rate, "the wild" assumes post productive use and something that is > sitting in a garage or at a ham fest or something. In that regard, I've > not heard of a CM being found out "in the wild". I was not referring to the CHM... I was in the machine room at NASA Ames in the early 90s, on a private tour with an aquaintance who worked there (we'd both just been to a VR conference in San Jose). The machine was plugged in, live, and in use. -ethan P.S. - it was also the day I first used this thing I'd only heard of before, called "The World Wide Web", via a very early release of Mosaic. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-May-2004 07:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -78.5 F (-61.4 C) Windchill -113.5 F (-80.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.80 kts Grid 073 Barometer 671.8 mb (10937. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tomj at wps.com Sun May 23 03:42:10 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 28 Tacoma Washington. In-Reply-To: <001101c43f33$756a76d0$99100f14@mcothran1> References: <001101c43f33$756a76d0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <1085301729.4239.11.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 05:59, Ashley Carder wrote: > Is this one of those 5 bit models, not the ASR-33 style? You say this as if it were a bad thing! From tomj at wps.com Sun May 23 03:43:46 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: System disks for Sanyo MBC 555? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1085301825.4239.13.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 08:02, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Has anyone got the system disks for the Sanyo MBC 555? If so, Tiziano in > Italy needs them. Please contact him at . Sanyo 555! What a machine! (ugh :-) Disk activity turns off interrupts. No much fun doing serial IO, or maintaining a clock. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat May 22 12:35:30 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: <1085246705.2963.3.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200405220238.i4M2ctQd010932@spies.com> <2EBA23BCD2B799BD0333091F@ip211-183.tor.istop.com> <1085246705.2963.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040522133113.02398cf8@24.161.37.215> Is it me or does it look a lot like the "thinking machine" systems builds/mock-ups for that ****-head James Cameron's Terminator series? I know! We should sue on behalf of The Connection Machine Group and start it up again. Hell, even a machine that could decide humans aren't worth it and wipe most of us out, is better than Bush =) -John Boffemmyer IV At 01:25 PM 5/22/2004, you wrote: >On Sat, 2004-05-22 at 16:09, Ken Campbell wrote: > > Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 > > Connection Machine in the wild? > >No, but wow! Surprised they aren't commonly seen on movie sets :-) > >cheers > >Jules ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From rachael at rachael.dyndns.org Sat May 22 15:35:55 2004 From: rachael at rachael.dyndns.org (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: poormans transputer Message-ID: <861.638T2750T12954370rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> I found a specialix si/xio multi serial port controler, sadly without the cables and actual link modules, it uses a ST t225 tranputer along with 64kb memory. As I looked at the linux software for it, it seems as I could upload a small program to it and make it run, Anyone tried such a thing ? While it might be a waste of good I/O card, without those external modules it aint much good, might as well have som fun with it. Would anyone happen to have drivers for a Newport system solutions inc. isa serial card, its a full length card using a nec v50. For this card I have everything except the drivers, Newport system is part of Cisco now, but their site doesnt hold much infomation about their old products. regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From nick at computer-history.org Sat May 22 16:50:11 2004 From: nick at computer-history.org (nick@computer-history.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis - SGI 4D/310VGX, NEC APC, Altos 1086, IBM 5363 & 5247 Message-ID: <005201c44046$c2469330$7a00a8c0@themillers> I have several systems available free for pickup in St. Charles, Missouri, just outside of St. Louis. The systems are: NEC APC - This machine is complete but somewhat yellowed. It's an old 8086 CP/M system with two 8" floppy drives and a monochrome screen. SGI Iris 4D/310VGX - This machine is in very good condition. It's the size of a large dorm fridge and includes several boards but no hard drives. IBM 5363 System/36 - This is a small member of the IBM System/36 line. It is the size of a large PC tower and includes several hard drives. IBM 5247 - I think this is a hard disk unit for the IBM System/23 line of computers. It may work with others as well. Altos 1086 - This machine is the size of a large PC tower. This is an 80286 machine designed to run XENIX. I also have two SGI 20" color monitors available. If you are interested or have any questions you may contact me at nick@computer-history.org These machines are all quite large and are available for pickup only. If there are no takers you will probably see them on the Vintage Computer Market Place and then on eBay, they won't end up in the landfill. This shouldn't be considered a rescue, I'm just trying to make room for machines that I have more interest in. No software or manuals are included with any of the systems. Thanks, Nick From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun May 23 05:20:24 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Wild times at NASA (was:Connection Machine) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> In a nerd sense or in a Playboy Mansion sense? A little of both! From rmeenaks at olf.com Sun May 23 07:51:19 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: poormans transputer In-Reply-To: <861.638T2750T12954370rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <0HY600B5X3PK7R@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> If you had a tranny, what would you do with it? There is now OCCAM for Linux (KrOC) and it comes with CCSP with the same API that INMOS used in their C compiler for the transputer. So, you have a full development system there for a single transputer.... Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Dahl Pind Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: poormans transputer I found a specialix si/xio multi serial port controler, sadly without the cables and actual link modules, it uses a ST t225 tranputer along with 64kb memory. As I looked at the linux software for it, it seems as I could upload a small program to it and make it run, Anyone tried such a thing ? While it might be a waste of good I/O card, without those external modules it aint much good, might as well have som fun with it. Would anyone happen to have drivers for a Newport system solutions inc. isa serial card, its a full length card using a nec v50. For this card I have everything except the drivers, Newport system is part of Cisco now, but their site doesnt hold much infomation about their old products. regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From allain at panix.com Sun May 23 13:42:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? References: Message-ID: <005e01c440f5$b11dc560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> If you get few replies, try posting or emailing me a picture. It may be a rebadge of something better known. John A. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun May 23 14:21:40 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Anyway, I thought they were referring to the Computer History Museum. At > any rate, "the wild" assumes post productive use and something that is > sitting in a garage or at a ham fest or something. In that regard, I've > not heard of a CM being found out "in the wild". One of the shipping crates was out in the wild of Providence for a while. Not wanting it, Fort Thunder (a local group of art weirdos) took it, but left it outside for some time next to an old mill. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun May 23 14:32:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Connection Machine In-Reply-To: <40AF8A01.9030302@tiac.net> Message-ID: > I helped build the CM-1! I put a bid into buying the remains of TMC (Connection Machine Service, Inc.), but only won a small portion. I remember seeing "the pile" - maybe 50 CM-5 cabinets, a few CM-2s, and lots of junk. I did get a CM-5, plus one of the units used in Jurrassic Park (there were two - the other went out west, I think for "Jurrasic Park: the Ride"). I needed the panels, so I parted the thing out. I have the panels (some are available - contact me off list), and the frame went to one of the RCS guys. If you look at the movie, sharp eyes will notice that the lights are not right! The props people mounted the panels on the side of the frames, not the ends as they should be. They also put them in sideways. To top it off, most of the LEDs are actually blacked out with gaffers tape - apparently too many blinkenlights! The frames were never supercomputers - they were never populated, and never received serials. No power supplies, no cables, no backplanes, no nothing! They were simply surplus frames left over after CM-5 (all CM, actually) production stopped. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 23 14:35:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Wild times at NASA (was:Connection Machine) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 May 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > >>> In a nerd sense or in a Playboy Mansion sense? > > A little of both! Post some pictures, man! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sun May 23 16:37:56 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? References: <005e01c440f5$b11dc560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: Qwint Systems? > If you get few replies, try posting or emailing me a picture. > It may be a rebadge of something better known. > > John A. Here are a few pics: http://storm.prohosting.com/dcymbal/qwint/qwint.html From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sun May 23 16:58:06 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? In-Reply-To: <200405231703.i4NH05hl073988@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040523215806.84348.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Can anybody tell me anything about these? Found a little something I thought was word processor, but it actually looks like some sort of serial terminal using 80 column paper for output vs. a CRT. Very compact, kind of a neat looking little package. Googling has come up dry..... What you probably have is a Qwint 740 or 780 (I'd have to see it to know what model). It was the smallest plain paper teletype replacement probably ever built. I worked there at Qwint (formerly Martin Research of 1970's MIKE 8008/8080 fame) between '84-85; I wrote the service manual (which I think I still have). It's a very sophisticated machine-don't let the size or apparent simplicity fool you; it uses a Z-80 with bank switching! It is possible to reink the ink cartridge via the old WD-40 trick; don't lose it because they are made of unobtanium. The company was bought by Zebra (who makes the thermal bar code printers), mostly for IP (intellectual property). ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 23 17:18:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Geek Action Figure? Message-ID: http://www.happyworker.com/geekman/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From CCTalk at catcorner.org Sun May 23 17:33:03 2004 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: poormans transputer Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799435B0A@mail.catcorner.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Dahl Pind [mailto:rachael@rachael.dyndns.org] > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:36 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: poormans transputer > > > I found a specialix si/xio multi serial port controler, sadly without > the cables and actual link modules... > I have several of the interface boxes available (8 port ones). I don't have spare cables though. Where are you located? Note that you should never plug these in or unplg them with the power on. It would be a "very bad thing". I'm speaking from experience here. Thanks, Kelly From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 23 17:59:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 May 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > From: "John Allain" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 2:42 PM > Subject: Re: Qwint Systems? > > > > If you get few replies, try posting or emailing me a picture. > > It may be a rebadge of something better known. > > > > John A. > > Here are a few pics: http://storm.prohosting.com/dcymbal/qwint/qwint.html Just a run 'o the mill portable TTY. Cool. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 23 18:00:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? In-Reply-To: <20040523215806.84348.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 May 2004, Loboyko Steve wrote: > What you probably have is a Qwint 740 or 780 (I'd have > to see it to know what model). It was the smallest > plain paper teletype replacement probably ever built. I have a TI model that I think is a tad smaller than the Qwint. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com Sun May 23 19:32:06 2004 From: nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com (nospam212-classiccmp@yahoo.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Several systems for sale or trade Message-ID: <20040524003206.29376.qmail@web81007.mail.yahoo.com> I have several systems to trade or sell. Need to move them out. They're located in Houston TX and I'll give preference to anyone who can pick them up. Some I can't ship, too big, but some I can. Conditions are unknown as I haven't had time to work with any of these and don't suspect I will any time in the future. Not even sure what all is in each system. Thus, they're up for sale or trade. Ok, what is available... PDP-11/60 card bays and cards, power supplies and I think the front panel. No cabinet. Can't ship this. Kaypro 2 HP 715/100 HP 9000/300 HP 9836 - couple of key tops broken off but I still have them I can send pics of any of the systems for those that are interested. ----- "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams dlwfanservice@sbcglobal.com From allain at panix.com Sun May 23 20:46:54 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K References: Message-ID: <001301c44131$60bb3120$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> You can have the chip, no guarantees on condition. Physically its OK, and it was handled OK, but maybe not for it's _entire_ life. Let me know if there is a 33mhz one there. John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: chris To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:57 PM Subject: Re: netBSD 1.5 on a 1994 Mac68K >The Mac's current chip is a XC68LC040RC33B. >I have a spare chip here, a XC68040HRC25M >which looks the wrong speed. The one you have will probably work anyway. But since it isn't cleared for 33 Mhz, it could fry (chances are it won't as Macs have usually faired pretty well at being overclocked). If you have no use for the 25 MHz version you have, I'd actually love to make a trade. I'm pretty sure the ones I pulled are all 33 MHz (I'll check in the morning), but since I planned to use them in Centris 610's which are only clocked at 20 MHz, I'd be fine with a 25 MHz chip instead. If you do have another use for it, no biggie, I'll still send you a full 040 chip (pending I have a 33 MHz one, but I'm pretty sure that is the only speed I have, they came from dead Quadra 630's which were 33 MHz machines) -chris From jpl15 at panix.com Sun May 23 21:20:54 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: PING Jerome Fine Message-ID: Drop me a note off-list when convenient, s'il vous plait. Cheers John From jnick at cs.adelaide.edu.au Sun May 23 21:45:36 2004 From: jnick at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Nickolas Falkner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server Message-ID: <6F43E147-AD2C-11D8-9451-000D9367C960@cs.adelaide.edu.au> Hi, I've saved two annexes from going into the 'dead machine' skip but haven't managed to talk to either of them yet. I'm planning to use them to give me console access to the two DEC workstation clusters that I'm building as a student research distributed systems test bed. I saw some mail on an Annex 3 but there is no 'Test' button on an Annex 2 - just a Normal/Diag switch and a reset button. I've tried powering on with the switch in diag and normal and terminal connected at 9600,4800,2400 and 1200 (all N-8-1) but, so far, no joy. Does anyone have any information on this model? Thanks, Nick. -- -- Nick Falkner -- PhD Student -- Distributed and High Performance Computing Group -- The University of Adelaide From brad at heeltoe.com Mon May 24 06:15:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 May 2004 12:15:36 +0930." <6F43E147-AD2C-11D8-9451-000D9367C960@cs.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: <200405241115.i4OBFMP22801@mwave.heeltoe.com> Nickolas Falkner wrote: > >I've tried powering on with the switch in diag and normal and terminal >connected at 9600,4800,2400 and 1200 (all N-8-1) but, so far, no joy. As I recall, dimly, it probably wants to boot over the network using a xylogics proprietary protocol. I don't remember if that one would tftp, but I don't think so. I think you'll need the annex software to talk to it and configure it over ethernet. I'd think that would be reasonably easy to fine (heh). -brad From djg at pdp8.net Mon May 24 06:26:20 2004 From: djg at pdp8.net (djg@pdp8.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: DEC manuals/tapes available Message-ID: <200405241126.i4OBQKc14691@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> I'm trying to stick with 8 stuff so am forarding this on to the list. Contact jwreames@comcast.net and indicate if you will be scanning/making stuff available to help him decide who get it. >I have a bunch of old dec stuff (vax type) to dispose of from work. Lots >of software distribution tapes etc, some manuals (no real hardware except >for some common boards like mv2 stuff...) Do you know of anyone who uses >these in "living" collections? (who might be interested in scanning some >of the manuals etc) > >I think i might have some/all of the boot floppies for a 8500 console, >some 8200 manuals, mv manuals, I might have an emulex dhq clone manual, >I might have an emulex smd controller manual, that kinda stuff. > >I can take an inventory and let you know.. It seems a waste to trash all >of this stuff. > From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon May 24 09:19:39 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: <200405241115.i4OBFMP22801@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200405241115.i4OBFMP22801@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200405240919.39059.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 24 May 2004 06:15, Brad Parker wrote: > Nickolas Falkner wrote: > >I've tried powering on with the switch in diag and normal and > > terminal connected at 9600,4800,2400 and 1200 (all N-8-1) but, so > > far, no joy. > > As I recall, dimly, it probably wants to boot over the network using > a xylogics proprietary protocol. I don't remember if that one would > tftp, but I don't think so. > > I think you'll need the annex software to talk to it and configure it > over ethernet. I'd think that would be reasonably easy to fine > (heh). I've given up looking for mine. The software seems to be basically impossible to find. I think I found a guy via Google who claimed to have software for an Annex 1, but he never got back to me about it. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From charlesb at otcgaming.net Mon May 24 10:21:39 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: poormans transputer References: <861.638T2750T12954370rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <001a01c441a2$d0d9ab50$0100a8c0@thunder> "digiboards" used to use the same sort of thing, a mini controller on the board to handle the comms between each port and the host devices. They used to have firmware uplaoded to them on boot using the drivers, a quick google search came up with this... http://www.geocrawler.com/mail/msg.php3?msg_id=2205731&list=59 http://he.fi/archive/linux-hams/199906/0363.html http://www.google.com/linux?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=specialix+si%2Fxio+&btnG=Google+Search hope these help Charles 'Thunder' Blackburn Quake3 Co-Lead http://www.tsncentral.com The Leader in the E-Sports Revolution ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Dahl Pind" To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: poormans transputer > I found a specialix si/xio multi serial port controler, sadly without > the cables and actual link modules, it uses a ST t225 tranputer along > with 64kb memory. > As I looked at the linux software for it, it seems as I could upload > a small program to it and make it run, Anyone tried such a thing ? From brad at heeltoe.com Mon May 24 11:15:05 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:46 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 May 2004 09:19:39 CDT." <200405240919.39059.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200405241615.i4OGF5u25031@mwave.heeltoe.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Monday 24 May 2004 06:15, Brad Parker wrote: >> >> I think you'll need the annex software to talk to it and configure it >> over ethernet. I'd think that would be reasonably easy to fine >> (heh). > >I've given up looking for mine. The software seems to be basically >impossible to find. I think I found a guy via Google who claimed to >have software for an Annex 1, but he never got back to me about it. I think I have some around here somewhere on 1/4" tape. I gave away my microannex but I know who has it. I'll check. -brad From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon May 24 11:36:49 2004 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: <200405240919.39059.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200405241115.i4OBFMP22801@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200405240919.39059.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040524163649.GF8287@uiuc.edu> I have 2 .tar.Z files of annex software: annex-R10.0B-R2.3.tar.Z annex-R7.1B-R1.1.tar.Z I was able to successfully run my annex3 with one of these...don't remember which, it was a while ago, and I've not had a chance to use the annex3 since determining it works. I have enough serial console machines that I'm planning on using it Any Day Now, though :) If you contact me off-list I'd be happy to send these to you. Patrick Finnegan said: > On Monday 24 May 2004 06:15, Brad Parker wrote: > > Nickolas Falkner wrote: > > >I've tried powering on with the switch in diag and normal and > > > terminal connected at 9600,4800,2400 and 1200 (all N-8-1) but, so > > > far, no joy. > > > > As I recall, dimly, it probably wants to boot over the network using > > a xylogics proprietary protocol. I don't remember if that one would > > tftp, but I don't think so. > > > > I think you'll need the annex software to talk to it and configure it > > over ethernet. I'd think that would be reasonably easy to fine > > (heh). > > I've given up looking for mine. The software seems to be basically > impossible to find. I think I found a guy via Google who claimed to > have software for an Annex 1, but he never got back to me about it. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) "we are content if we can describe a multitude of other things in terms of... fundamental incomprehensibilities. science is an activity that takes place on the shore of an infinite sea of mystery." chet raymo, "doctor seuss and doctor einstein" From Innfogra at aol.com Mon May 24 12:18:09 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Chicago Test equipment sale??? Message-ID: Anyone go to the Chicago test equipment sale? Can you please post a report. Curious how it was? Paxton Astoria, OR From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon May 24 12:48:30 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? Message-ID: <20040524174830.67452.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> > What you probably have is a Qwint 740 or 780 (I'd have > to see it to know what model). It was the smallest > plain paper teletype replacement probably ever built. I have a TI model that I think is a tad smaller than the Qwint. Ahhh, but the trick is that it's PLAIN PAPER (dot matrix impact). Qwint sold these printers to VAR's that found this very useful (filling out multipart forms, etc). It's cost per page was much lower than thermal, also. ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 24 13:04:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? In-Reply-To: <20040524174830.67452.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Steve, please fix your quoting system :( I wrote: > I have a TI model that I think is a tad smaller than > the Qwint. You wrote: > Ahhh, but the trick is that it's PLAIN PAPER (dot > matrix impact). Qwint sold these printers to VAR's > that found this very useful (filling out multipart > forms, etc). It's cost per page was much lower than > thermal, also. That is definitely a unique feature. I'll have to check if the TI was plain paper or not. I'm pretty sure it used thermal paper. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon May 24 13:10:46 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? References: <20040524174830.67452.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16562.15014.736752.383223@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> That is definitely a unique feature. I'll have to check if Vintage> the TI was plain paper or not. I'm pretty sure it used Vintage> thermal paper. TI 73x series terminals are thermal paper printers. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Mon May 24 13:24:15 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 May 2004 12:15:05 EDT." <200405241615.i4OGF5u25031@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200405241824.i4OIOFL26307@mwave.heeltoe.com> Brad Parker wrote: > >I think I have some around here somewhere on 1/4" tape. I gave away >my microannex but I know who has it. I'll check. I found a copy of "annexR2000_R5.4-R3.2.tar.Z" if that helps. Send email. -brad From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 24 13:32:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040524143217.008c0e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know what this is? It's marked "Hitachi model H40PC01". It has an alpha-numeric keyboard so I'm guessing that it may be some kind of hand held terminal. There's a paper label on the display that's marked "Page | Addr | A B X Y spx spy s/c". It appears to have a green VF display but it gets it's power via the ribbon cable so I haven't been able to power it up. It has a 26 conductor ribbon cable about 3 foot logn attached to it with an IDC socket on the other end. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 24 13:31:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? In-Reply-To: <16562.15014.736752.383223@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: > > Vintage> That is definitely a unique feature. I'll have to check if > Vintage> the TI was plain paper or not. I'm pretty sure it used > Vintage> thermal paper. > > TI 73x series terminals are thermal paper printers. Indeed. But the one I'm referring to is a much later vintage (1980s) and is very small (equivalent in size to the Qwint if not smaller). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 24 13:34:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: FREE (NL): DEC VR150 mono monitor Message-ID: Hi All, Free to a good home: DEC VR150 monochrome monitor with single composite video input. Used with VS3100's and works fine. Contact me off-list if interested! Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 24 13:14:37 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? References: <3.0.6.32.20040524143217.008c0e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <02d601c441ba$f98238c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Given what the keys say, I'm going to guess it's not a terminal. My bet would be on a "operators console" for something along the lines of a PLC perhaps, due to things like run, step, etc. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? > Does anyone know what this is? > It's marked "Hitachi > model H40PC01". It has an alpha-numeric keyboard so I'm guessing that it > may be some kind of hand held terminal. There's a paper label on the > display that's marked "Page | Addr | A B X Y spx spy s/c". It appears to > have a green VF display but it gets it's power via the ribbon cable so I > haven't been able to power it up. It has a 26 conductor ribbon cable about > 3 foot logn attached to it with an IDC socket on the other end. > > Joe > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 24 13:41:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer Message-ID: Did any of these ever sell? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4133134046 More info: http://www.everymac.com/systems/assistivetech/freestyle/freestyle.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Mon May 24 14:08:16 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer Message-ID: >Did any of these ever sell? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4133134046 They must have. The ebay seller just aquired the unit from someone on the LEM Swap list. The original dealer on the swap list said be bought it from an estate auction in Texas, and that there were a bunch of them. He reported 2 complete working units, plus enough broken ones to make 12-15 more. He said the broken ones all had the typical PB 5300 failures (like broken power connectors). His feeling was, the items may have been from a repair facility originally. (He put a friend onto them that will use them for education where the touch screens will come in handy, so as a result, he was left with just the one unit which he traded for some other parts to the person that is now selling it on ebay). Its a shame to see it end up on ebay. I'd have been much happier to see it go directly to a collector that would have valued it and not hocked it off to the highest bidder. Now who knows where it will wind up. (I myself was interested in it, but since I could only offer $100, I didn't have much of a shot at getting it when others reportedly offered $500 for it) -chris From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon May 24 14:17:05 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer Message-ID: Woah, that just made it on to my Apple wish list: Apple Lisa (Original with working twiggy drives) Apple III PowerCD Player MacTV G4 Cube Pippin TV-Top appliance prototype Apple Network Server Color Classic II 20th Anniversary Mac *Freestyle* >From: Vintage Computer Festival >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: Classic Computers Mailing List >Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:41:10 -0700 (PDT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org ([209.145.140.36]) by >mc5-f27.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 24 May 2004 >11:48:03 -0700 >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])by >huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4OIwxhp081224;Mon, 24 >May 2004 14:00:39 -0500 (CDT)(envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) >Received: from siconic.com (host14.address.com [69.36.235.14] (may be >forged))by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id >i4OIwkhc081180for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:58:50 -0500 >(CDT)(envelope-from vcf@siconic.com) >Received: from localhost (vcf@localhost)by siconic.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE >Linux 0.5) with ESMTP idi4OIfAv00965for ; Mon, 24 >May 2004 11:41:10 -0700 >X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpV9mYT1wWGqwv6UYCtLiJkz >Message-ID: >X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >Return-Path: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2004 18:48:05.0093 (UTC) >FILETIME=[A5E39150:01C441BF] > > >Did any of these ever sell? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4133134046 > >More info: > >http://www.everymac.com/systems/assistivetech/freestyle/freestyle.html > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 24 13:58:10 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Apple ][ compact flash drive Message-ID: <032601c441c1$0ea367a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Dont know if people are already familiar with this, but I just found it: http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php Looks like someone built an apple card for compact flash that looks like a hard drive? Oh, also has an IDE interface. Works with ][, ][+, //e and later. Prodos 8 and GS/OS supported. Apparently not DOS3.3 Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 24 14:29:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040524143217.008c0e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone know what this is? > It's marked "Hitachi > model H40PC01". It has an alpha-numeric keyboard so I'm guessing that it > may be some kind of hand held terminal. There's a paper label on the > display that's marked "Page | Addr | A B X Y spx spy s/c". It appears to > have a green VF display but it gets it's power via the ribbon cable so I > haven't been able to power it up. It has a 26 conductor ribbon cable about > 3 foot logn attached to it with an IDC socket on the other end. I've got a couple of these. I'm not sure what they came from but they are basically some sort of controller or test terminal for a larger piece of equipment (obviously :) I picked them up from WeirdStuff. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 24 14:31:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 2004, chris wrote: > Now who knows where it will wind up. Probably in the hands of the person who ends up as the buyer ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 24 13:53:02 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? In-Reply-To: <02d601c441ba$f98238c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040524143217.008c0e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040524145302.008c8310@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hmm. I hadn't thought of that. Yu may be right. I'll search in that area. Joe At 01:14 PM 5/24/04 -0500, Jay wrote: >Given what the keys say, I'm going to guess it's not a terminal. My bet >would be on a "operators console" for something along the lines of a PLC >perhaps, due to things like run, step, etc. > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:32 PM >Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? > > >> Does anyone know what this is? >> It's marked "Hitachi >> model H40PC01". It has an alpha-numeric keyboard so I'm guessing that it >> may be some kind of hand held terminal. There's a paper label on the >> display that's marked "Page | Addr | A B X Y spx spy s/c". It appears to >> have a green VF display but it gets it's power via the ribbon cable so I >> haven't been able to power it up. It has a 26 conductor ribbon cable about >> 3 foot logn attached to it with an IDC socket on the other end. >> >> Joe >> > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon May 24 14:45:27 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Apple wish List Was:Re: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer References: Message-ID: <00f301c441c7$ab2f2ef0$3d406b43@66067007> I have all but the following from your list: Apple Lisa (Original with working twiggy drives) Pippin Color Classic II Freestyle Once I get all my stuff from up north down here to Texas I may be able to trade you a PowerCD Player and a MacTV for something you may that I need. (I think I have 4 of the PowerCD's and 5 MacTV's up there in storage) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason McBrien" To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: RE: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer > Woah, that just made it on to my Apple wish list: > > Apple Lisa (Original with working twiggy drives) > Apple III > PowerCD Player > MacTV > G4 Cube > Pippin > TV-Top appliance prototype > Apple Network Server > Color Classic II > 20th Anniversary Mac > *Freestyle* > > >From: Vintage Computer Festival > >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >Posts" > >To: Classic Computers Mailing List > >Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer > >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:41:10 -0700 (PDT) > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org ([209.145.140.36]) by > >mc5-f27.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 24 May 2004 > >11:48:03 -0700 > >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])by > >huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4OIwxhp081224;Mon, 24 > >May 2004 14:00:39 -0500 (CDT)(envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > >Received: from siconic.com (host14.address.com [69.36.235.14] (may be > >forged))by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id > >i4OIwkhc081180for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:58:50 -0500 > >(CDT)(envelope-from vcf@siconic.com) > >Received: from localhost (vcf@localhost)by siconic.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE > >Linux 0.5) with ESMTP idi4OIfAv00965for ; Mon, 24 > >May 2004 11:41:10 -0700 > >X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpV9mYT1wWGqwv6UYCtLiJkz > >Message-ID: > >X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 > >Precedence: list > >List-Id: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >Posts" > >List-Unsubscribe: > >, > >List-Archive: > >List-Post: > >List-Help: > >List-Subscribe: > >, > >Errors-To: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >Return-Path: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2004 18:48:05.0093 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[A5E39150:01C441BF] > > > > > >Did any of these ever sell? > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4133134046 > > > >More info: > > > >http://www.everymac.com/systems/assistivetech/freestyle/freestyle.html > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >http://www.vintage.org > > > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > > ] > >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > > ] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball > Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 24 14:42:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: TD Systems TDL-12 ? Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have info on a half-height Qbus board from TD Systems, called the TDL-12 ? It seems to be a semi-smart SCSI interface, given its components. I cant find anything on the web :( Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 15:01:08 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "Re: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server" (May 24, 7:15) References: <200405241115.i4OBFMP22801@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10405242101.ZM22032@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 7:15, Brad Parker wrote: > > Nickolas Falkner wrote: > > > >I've tried powering on with the switch in diag and normal and terminal > >connected at 9600,4800,2400 and 1200 (all N-8-1) but, so far, no joy. > > As I recall, dimly, it probably wants to boot over the network using a > xylogics proprietary protocol. I don't remember if that one would tftp, > but I don't think so. If it's like the other Annexes, like the two I have here, there's nothing proprietary about it at all. You can do the basic setup (IP address etc) either using BOOTP or by using the serial console, and the rest in admin mode either via telnet or the serial console, or you can tell it to use TFTP to download a config file when it boots. If you're trying to talk to it using the serial console, it should default to 9600 baud, 8N1, unless someone has changed it. However, the pinout of the RJ45 console port is unique. There's no standard for such things: Cisco, Sun, Xylogics (Annex), Newbridge, and several others, all used different pinouts. In particular, a Cisco or Sun cable will not work on an Annex. See the second link below for pinout and other info. > I think you'll need the annex software to talk to it and configure it > over ethernet. I'd think that would be reasonably easy to fine (heh). You can download a tar file of the Annex software. There is a proprietary utility called 'na' which is worth compiling; it allows you to set the config fairly easily (you can read the existing config to a file, modify the file, and write it back). The other often-quoted proprietart thing is 'erpcd', which can be used for booting, downloading config at boot, etc, but you only really need it if you want to use Xylogics' extended authentication methods. Otherwise standard Unix things work fine (don't waste your time with Windows). Do be aware that different versions of the Annex terminal servers need different boot code, so don't try to load the wrong one! http://www25.nortelnetworks.com/library/rannex/relnotes/R10.1A-Release_Notes.html http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/annex/ http://lost-contact.mit.edu/afs/net.mit.edu/project/afs32/andrew/netdev/sun4_413/usr/var/spool/erpcd/bfs/ Google might find you more. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From spectre at floodgap.com Mon May 24 15:31:20 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer In-Reply-To: from Jason McBrien at "May 24, 4 03:17:05 pm" Message-ID: <200405242031.NAA16714@floodgap.com> > Apple Network Server Ah, the ANS -- Apple's only real "big freaking server" until the advent of the Xserve. I don't count things like the AWS 95 or other "Workgroup Servers" that were really rebadged workstations with added features, although the AWS 95 comes close since it was built to run A/UX. I own a 500 (in fact, this server that I'm sending the mail through is a 500 with a 200MHz 604e), and a 700/150 which is its roll-in replacement. This 500 has been in continuous service since 1998 and it's a great box. Keep an eye out because people are often giving these away. My 700 was one of these; I just had to come up and get it (they're about 100 pounds). Why they'd do that, of course, is another story. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Why was I born with such contemporaries? -- Oscar Wilde -------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 15:07:28 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "Re: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server" (May 24, 12:15) References: <200405241615.i4OGF5u25031@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10405242107.ZM22044@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 12:15, Brad Parker wrote: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >On Monday 24 May 2004 06:15, Brad Parker wrote: > >> > >> I think you'll need the annex software to talk to it and configure it > >> over ethernet. I'd think that would be reasonably easy to fine > >> (heh). > > > >I've given up looking for mine. The software seems to be basically > >impossible to find. I think I found a guy via Google who claimed to > >have software for an Annex 1, but he never got back to me about it. > > I think I have some around here somewhere on 1/4" tape. I gave away > my microannex but I know who has it. I'll check. If you can't find it, give me a heads-up and I'll put my copy on a web page somewhere, temporarily. I can't find the original tar files (I have at least two versions) just at the moment, but if all else fails I'll do a "make clean" on the top-level directory and tar the rest up for you. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pcw at mesanet.com Mon May 24 15:19:05 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Free old Magazines again + HP1651A logic analyser In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Since no one has picked up the 60's vintage "Electronics" magazines I am offering them again. If no one wants them, out they go. ~60# of 1966..1968 "ELECTRONICS" magazines Also National Semi 1974 MOS data book a few 1950s vintage "Radio and Televison" magazines Also a HP1651A logic analyser condition unknown - no pods located in SFBA Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 24 15:26:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: TD Systems TDL-12 ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040524162617.008efb60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred, I've had a couple of them. I sold the last one to Al. IIRC Mine had a Z8000 on it. Hey what do you know, I still a picture of it. It's at . Joe At 09:42 PM 5/24/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Does anyone have info on a half-height Qbus board from TD Systems, >called the TDL-12 ? It seems to be a semi-smart SCSI interface, >given its components. I cant find anything on the web :( > >Cheers, > >Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon May 24 15:38:33 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi hand hald terminal? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040524143217.008c0e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040524143217.008c0e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B25D49.5050502@gifford.co.uk> Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone know what this is? > It's marked "Hitachi > model H40PC01". It has an alpha-numeric keyboard so I'm guessing that it > may be some kind of hand held terminal. There's a paper label on the > display that's marked "Page | Addr | A B X Y spx spy s/c". A, B, X, Y, and two stack pointers sounds to me like the register set of the 6809. But the two stack pointers are usually called U and S (for User and System), so maybe it's something else. Maybe 6800? The terminal may have been used with a 6809 system and/or machine-code monitor that always displayed register contents in those locations on display. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 24 15:41:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Apple ][ compact flash drive References: <032601c441c1$0ea367a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004f01c441cf$750c69c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: Apple ][ compact flash drive > Dont know if people are already familiar with this, but I just found it: > > http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php > > Looks like someone built an apple card for compact flash that looks like a > hard drive? Oh, also has an IDE interface. > > Works with ][, ][+, //e and later. Prodos 8 and GS/OS supported. Apparently > not DOS3.3 > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > That device has been talked about in the apple 2 newsgroup for a while. While compact and relatively inexpensive I still prefer an SCSI card and devices in my IIgs. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon May 24 15:42:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Free old Magazines again + HP1651A logic analyser References: Message-ID: <038a01c441cf$9072e0e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Peter wrote.... > Also a HP1651A logic analyser condition unknown - no pods I have an HP 1631D logic analyser in pristine condition with all pods, etc. Anyone know how compatable are the cards inside a 1631D with a 1651A? I may snag the 1651A just for spare cards if there are most cards in common between the two.... Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 24 15:55:29 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer References: <200405242031.NAA16714@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <006d01c441d1$72758050$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer > > Apple Network Server > > Ah, the ANS -- Apple's only real "big freaking server" until the advent of the > Xserve. I don't count things like the AWS 95 or other "Workgroup Servers" > that were really rebadged workstations with added features, although the AWS > 95 comes close since it was built to run A/UX. > > I own a 500 (in fact, this server that I'm sending the mail through is a > 500 with a 200MHz 604e), and a 700/150 which is its roll-in replacement. > This 500 has been in continuous service since 1998 and it's a great box. > > Keep an eye out because people are often giving these away. My 700 was one > of these; I just had to come up and get it (they're about 100 pounds). Why > they'd do that, of course, is another story. > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Why was I born with such contemporaries? -- Oscar Wilde -------------------- > The ANS 500 looks impressive, but your stuck running one version of AIX and there is no support for anything newer then what shipped with the unit (sure there is probably a version of Linux for it). There really isn't much information about these units around, must have died a quick death in the market. I don't see why an AWS95 isn't considered a real server since it was the best/last platform for A/UX, has a 300 watt power supply, security key that controls power, and room for lots of scsi drives internally and externally. From spectre at floodgap.com Mon May 24 16:29:11 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer In-Reply-To: <006d01c441d1$72758050$0500fea9@game> from Teo Zenios at "May 24, 4 04:55:29 pm" Message-ID: <200405242129.OAA16774@floodgap.com> > The ANS 500 looks impressive, but your stuck running one version of AIX and > there is no support for anything newer then what shipped with the unit (sure > there is probably a version of Linux for it). There really isn't much > information about these units around, must have died a quick death in the > market. Actually, all false ^_^ The ANS can run Linux and NetBSD (NetBSD even boots directly on it, although there is no internal video support yet -- you can get a true console either through serial, or with any OF-compliant (read Mac-compatible) PCI video card). There are actually two versions of AIX, 4.1.4 and 4.1.5, which are available; and they actually died a lingering death. The margins were good, but they sold a dismal number of them (list price was over $10,000 when new, which probably soured even people used to Apple's high markups). > I don't see why an AWS95 isn't considered a real server since it was the > best/last platform for A/UX, has a 300 watt power supply, security key that > controls power, and room for lots of scsi drives internally and externally. I don't consider the AWS95 a true server because 1) the only reason it was forced to run A/UX was the PDS lockout card -- pull that and it becomes a Quadra 950 2) conversely, it's just a Q950 with a lockout card to make it run A/UX only. The only thing that makes it a "server" (as opposed to the workstation it was based on) is just the name. The ANS series have tonnes of drive bays, a special fast SCSI backplane, six PCI slots (only the 9600 matches this (at least for released Macs)), and the 700 even has hot-swappable redundant power supplies and fans. While it started life based on the 9500 architecture, the ANS went far beyond simply an operating system facelift. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- FORTUNE: You will be hit with a lot of money. Avoid armoured trucks. ------- From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon May 24 16:11:26 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: TD Systems TDL-12 ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040524162617.008efb60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Fred, > > I've had a couple of them. I sold the last one to Al. IIRC Mine had a > Z8000 on it. > > Hey what do you know, I still a picture of it. It's at > . Yup, that's the one allright. Any pointers to docs ? --f From cb at mythtech.net Mon May 24 16:30:14 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer Message-ID: >Woah, that just made it on to my Apple wish list: >TV-Top appliance prototype These are readily available on ebay. I've seen them often closing with no bids at $10.00. I got mine at a garage sale, paid $5.00 for it. Some mom was selling off her son's collection of "stuff" because he left for college. I would have LOVED to hear that fight when he came home on break and found out! Mine, like all the others I know of, lacks the remote control, and doesn't actually do anything. -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 24 16:49:17 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: TD Systems TDL-12 ? In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at May 24, 2004 11:11:26 PM Message-ID: <200405242149.i4OLnHvt030845@onyx.spiritone.com> > > I've had a couple of them. I sold the last one to Al. IIRC Mine had a > > Z8000 on it. > > > > Hey what do you know, I still a picture of it. It's at > > . > > Yup, that's the one allright. Any pointers to docs ? > --f > There was a discussion about these a few months ago, I just can't remember if it was here or on USENET. Zane From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon May 24 16:51:21 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Finds at the weekend Message-ID: <40B26E59.2070701@gifford.co.uk> Well, car boot sale season has started again here, so I went with a friend to the local one and we came back with: * Sun JavaStation, ?2 * Two DEC PCXAS-AA mice, ?1 * Five DEC MMJ cables, ?1.50 We also saw quite a few mundane PC clones, several game consoles (Sega MegaDrive and PlayStation 1) and a few AcornSoft games. Oh well, hopefully we'll get some good stuff again next week! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon May 24 16:50:39 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Apple ][ compact flash drive In-Reply-To: <004f01c441cf$750c69c0$0500fea9@game> References: <032601c441c1$0ea367a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <004f01c441cf$750c69c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <1085435439.25387.18.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Yup, got one. (Couldn't find a SCSI card - Didn't look real hard tho) They work.. If you've the appropriate bits around, you can dd out the cards, and manipulate them with: http://search.cpan.org/~cjm/LibA2-0.003/ (Presuming PRODOS of course) David On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 16:41, Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:58 PM > Subject: Apple ][ compact flash drive > > > > Dont know if people are already familiar with this, but I just found it: > > > > > http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php > > > > Looks like someone built an apple card for compact flash that looks like a > > hard drive? Oh, also has an IDE interface. > > > > Works with ][, ][+, //e and later. Prodos 8 and GS/OS supported. > Apparently > > not DOS3.3 > > > > Jay West > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > That device has been talked about in the apple 2 newsgroup for a while. > While compact and relatively inexpensive I still prefer an SCSI card and > devices in my IIgs. > From aek at spies.com Mon May 24 16:56:01 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: TD Systems Message-ID: <200405242156.i4OLu1EZ014900@spies.com> Zane has some information on them. ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/viking_scsi/ From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon May 24 16:56:07 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 (free) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <294674E8-ADCD-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Ken was nice enough to give me this machine. I picked it up today. Here is what was included: PDP-11/23 with dual RX02 floppy drives containing the following cards: M8186 (KDF11) M8044-DF (memory) M8029 (RX02 controller) 2 x M8047-CA (serial interfaces, memory) Also included were the following cards: 3 x M8186 (KDF11) M8044-DB M8029 4 x M8047-CA M8027 M8043 None of the KDF11 CPUs had the FPU chip. They all have the MMU. I removed all of the cards and tried powering up the backplane. The power light didn't come on and there was little or no voltage on the backplane power connector. The unit came with an extra power supply so I swapped the supplies. I now get the following voltages: +12 measures at 11.21 volts +5 measures at 5.03 volts -12 measures at -5.83 volts Should this power supply produce the correct voltages with no load on the backplane? Any idea as to why the -12 voltage is off by so much. I assume this is a problem. I haven't tried plugging any of the cards back in because I'm afraid the wrong voltages will fry something. Can anyone suggest how to proceed? I also got a LA-180 printer and a VT100 with the VT125 upgrade. Is anyone interested in either of these? They're really too big to ship so it would have to be pickup in Bedford, NH. In addition to the hardware, I got documentation for RT-11 V4 and RSX-11M. I already have documentation for RT-11 and don't need the RSX-11M documentation. Would anyone be interested in either of these sets of manuals. They aren't in great shape but they are certainly readable. Mostly, they're dusty. On May 12, 2004, at 11:32 AM, wrote: > Hi, > > This was my home PC before the days of IBM PC and Microsoft. > > It goes back to late 1970's and early 1980's. > > Comes with RT-11 operating system on RX02 floopies, manuals, > printer, and VT100 terminal. > > Located in Merrimack NH. > > I'm not on this mail list so reply to me directly or call. > > Ken Rauhala +1 781 993 4626 > > From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 24 17:15:54 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: History of RSTS booklet Message-ID: Remember a couple weeks ago I was asking about a "History of RSTS" booklet? Lo and behold, today in the mail I received a package from my former college professor, who maintained and ran our PDP 11/40 from 1975 to 1989. I opened it and inside I found a bound copy of the "History of RSTS" booklet. It has pretty much the same info that is on the web site, including the fictitious history starting around 1990. It makes a nice addition to my little collection. Ashley From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 24 17:15:14 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: TD Systems In-Reply-To: <200405242156.i4OLu1EZ014900@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at May 24, 2004 02:56:01 PM Message-ID: <200405242215.i4OMFEe9031720@onyx.spiritone.com> > Zane has some information on them. > ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/viking_scsi/ > However, the TD-12 is a different board as I recall. Zane From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 17:12:21 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Star Trek Message-ID: <10405242312.ZM22230@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> If you're not already bored with it, I've updated my Star Trek page http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/ again, to add a few links and some info I recently got in email from Aron Insinga, who wrote the RSTS version published by DECUS. Any more useful links or unusual versions, or other BASIC games for the BASIC Games page, all gratefully received... Oh, and does anyone know for sure if the William K Char who wrote TREK73 is the same William K Char listed on the PCC Alumni page? Or William Char at Stellar Games/Game Masters? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon May 24 18:07:53 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home References: Message-ID: <01a201c441e4$1ba40720$71bcfea9@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:56 AM Subject: Re: IBM AT Free to a Good Home On Sat, 22 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: I have (not up for grabs) a Zenith mono monitor. It had what I called the 'Irish PSU' (note for non UK people, over here 'Irish' jokes are much the same as Polish jokes...). This combines the ease-of-repair of a switcher with the efficiency of a linear PSU (for the software types, that's roughly like combining the ease-of-understanding of machine code with the speed of an Interpetted HLL :-)). Well, we in the colonies used to enjoy that type of joke, but over the years have managed to hyper-sensitize just about all ethnic groups, such that you put your health - physical or financial - in jeopardy if you tell one. It tends to bring out dirty looks, unfriendly comments or the "everyone is picking on me" society - aka: American Civil Liberties Union - which can get expensive in keeping some lawyer well off. - don Don't be such a prude Don, here in the internal colonies we enjoy a good Irish joke as much as anyone, Here's my favourite : Why are Irish jokes so stupid ? - so the English can understand them ! The funny thing is when I tell my joke after a lot of other Irish jokes , a lot of people don't seem to appreciate it . Funny huh ? The joke that dare not speak it's name. Geoff. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 18:14:34 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:47 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Nickolas Falkner "Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server" (May 24, 12:15) References: <6F43E147-AD2C-11D8-9451-000D9367C960@cs.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: <10405250014.ZM22279@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 12:15, Nickolas Falkner wrote: > Does anyone have any information on this model? Not exactly the same model, but Sun rebadged one of the Annex models as the Sun NTS (Network Terminal Server). You might find "SunService Tip Sheet:NTS Annex Network Terminal Server" useful; it's INFODOC ID: 13031 and it includes most of the ROM commands as well as examples of how to set it up. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 15:05:59 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: External SCSI 3.5" HD case for sale. In-Reply-To: <1085435439.25387.18.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <004f01c441cf$750c69c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040525000146.CGSC14150.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Steal it for $10 and shippng. Note: no HD. Takes any SCSI 50 pin 3.5" up to 1.6" height. Has two fans (both 40x25mm), one to blow on HD, one to vent power supply. Mostly plastic contruction but somewhat stylish two tone scheme off-white and grey, two pass thru 50 pin centronics for external thermination or daisy chaining. Pushbutton ID selector, one standard outlet (like the wall outlet), power switch. Comes with black power cord. Shipping weight estimated 3 lbs. Cheers, Wizard From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 24 19:06:24 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <01a201c441e4$1ba40720$71bcfea9@geoff> References: <01a201c441e4$1ba40720$71bcfea9@geoff> Message-ID: <200405250011.UAA21829@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Don't be such a prude Don, here in the internal colonies we enjoy a > good Irish joke as much as anyone, > Here's my favourite : > Why are Irish jokes so stupid ? > - so the English can understand them ! This reminds me...back in the early '80s, the lab I used to hang out at had a Newfoundlander among its population. Now, the Newfoundlanders are to much of Canada what the Poles are to the Americans, what the Swedes are to the Norwegians, what the Irish are (apparently) to the English: there is a whole genre of "Newfie jokes". One day, the message-of-the-day had a Newfie joke in it. (I think it was "How do you know when a Newfie has used your word processor? When there's white-out on the screen.".) Our resident Newfie told us "You better be careful with those Newfie jokes - some of us might understand them!". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon May 24 19:33:39 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 up and running RT-11 In-Reply-To: <294674E8-ADCD-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> References: <294674E8-ADCD-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <2A9E3E15-ADE3-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> I solved my boot problems and now have my new PDP-11/23 booting RT-11! Now I just have to sift through the boxes of floppies to see what software I have. Apparently the -12 supply isn't necessary to boot the system. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 19:40:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Protected Mail Request Message-ID: <200405250045.i4P0jdss053500@mail.ezwind.net> Waiting for a Response. Please read the attachment. From fernande at internet1.net Mon May 24 19:50:27 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <200405250011.UAA21829@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <01a201c441e4$1ba40720$71bcfea9@geoff> <200405250011.UAA21829@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40B29853.9020503@internet1.net> In the US, that is a common blonde joke. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA der Mouse wrote: > One day, the message-of-the-day had a Newfie joke in it. (I think it > was "How do you know when a Newfie has used your word processor? When > there's white-out on the screen.".) Our resident Newfie told us "You > better be careful with those Newfie jokes - some of us might understand > them!". From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 24 20:05:27 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Star Trek In-Reply-To: <10405242312.ZM22230@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I have a version that was based on the original, but converted to run on a VT50 DecScope so that you have an updated "map" on your screen of where you are (and where the Kilngons, etc. are). It's called TVTREK.BAS. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:12 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Star Trek If you're not already bored with it, I've updated my Star Trek page http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/ again, to add a few links and some info I recently got in email from Aron Insinga, who wrote the RSTS version published by DECUS. Any more useful links or unusual versions, or other BASIC games for the BASIC Games page, all gratefully received... Oh, and does anyone know for sure if the William K Char who wrote TREK73 is the same William K Char listed on the PCC Alumni page? Or William Char at Stellar Games/Game Masters? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dan at ekoan.com Mon May 24 21:43:06 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Chicago Test equipment sale??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040524220922.05de9c20@enigma> At 01:18 PM 5/24/04, you wrote: >Anyone go to the Chicago test equipment sale? I did, and ended up running into Jack Rubin. I don't know if any other list members managed to attend. > Can you please post a report. The sale was at a self-storage facility in suburban Chicago. I flew in Saturday morning and met up with a friend who lives nearby. Although the sale was listed to start at 9:00 am we found it was already underway when we showed up at 8:30 am. The equipment had originally been owned by a man who collected and repaired test equipment. The current co-owners were simply trying to clear out the three 10-foot by 25-foot storage lockers (two very nice, accommodating sellers, by the way). I hesitate to post the following list, but since you asked... Although the majority of the items were specialized test equipment of one sort or another, I ended up buying the following Hewlett-Packard computing equipment: HP 3000 Model 226 Computer HP 85 Computer HP 87 Computer HP 9100A Calculator (with top-mounted printer) HP 9100B Calculator (with top-mounted printer and cover) HP 9101A Memory Expansion HP 9121 Dual Disk Drive HP 9810A Calculator HP 9820A Calculator (quantity 2) HP 9821A Calculator HP 9825A Calculator/Computer HP 9825B Calculator/Computer HP 9826 Computer (quantity 2) HP 9878A Expansion Unit HP 9915 Computer (unfortunately no keyboard) Along with these machines I bought five boxes of manuals and another box full of interface modules and cables. Also got a couple of counters, namely a HP 5246L and an old Non-Linear Systems unit with some neat edge-lit displays. I spent the rest of the day storing this equipment in Illinois and will end up transporting back east later this summer. I did not have a chance to test any of it before I flew back early Sunday morning. I had to pass on some HP 9862 plotters, since my friend's car was already full to overflowing. While I was busy with the HP equipment, Jack managed to find an MMD-2, some sealed 8-inch diskettes and a whole bunch of integrated circuits in anti-static tubes. I know he bought some other items besides those, but he can certainly speak for himself. Cheers, Dan From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 24 20:15:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 up and running RT-11 In-Reply-To: <2A9E3E15-ADE3-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> References: <294674E8-ADCD-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> <2A9E3E15-ADE3-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <20040525011519.GA26329@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 08:33:39PM -0400, David Betz wrote: > I solved my boot problems and now have my new PDP-11/23 booting RT-11! > Now I just have to sift through the boxes of floppies to see what > software I have. Apparently the -12 supply isn't necessary to boot the > system. Hmm... maybe you should check your comm ports... I know that's one thing that's inconsistent in the DEC world - reliance on -12V from the bus. The first rev of Qbus COMBOARD pulled -12V from the bus for the 1488/1489 EIA level shifters. We shipped a board to an early adopter and it failed. Apparently, that particular chassis did _not_ provide -12V (I don't recall what the customer had, but we would have tested our design in a BA-11M and a BA-23). Rev 2 has a +5/-12V converter in the lower corner. I still have a gross of them from unbuilt stock. Many modern designs have moved to MAX232-like drivers; we might have, too, except we were supporting two fully-handshaked sync serial ports - that's a lot of MAX232 chips and (at the time) expensive tantalum caps. I think our cost on the voltage converters was on the order of $12-$17 each, which was marginally less expensive than changing driver chips, but the engineering to retrofit it to an existing design was trivial. We also drove 50' cables routinely... not sure how well a MAX232 works over longer wires. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-May-2004 01:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82.9 F (-63.9 C) Windchill -112.7 F (-80.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.9 kts Grid 048 Barometer 672.3 mb (10917 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 24 21:58:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Chicago Test equipment sale??? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040524220922.05de9c20@enigma> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 2004, Dan Veeneman wrote: > HP 3000 Model 226 Computer > > HP 85 Computer > HP 87 Computer > > HP 9100A Calculator (with top-mounted printer) > HP 9100B Calculator (with top-mounted printer and cover) > HP 9101A Memory Expansion > > HP 9121 Dual Disk Drive > > HP 9810A Calculator > HP 9820A Calculator (quantity 2) > HP 9821A Calculator > > HP 9825A Calculator/Computer > HP 9825B Calculator/Computer > > HP 9826 Computer (quantity 2) > > HP 9878A Expansion Unit > > HP 9915 Computer (unfortunately no keyboard) Ka-wite the score!! (!) Good job, Dan :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon May 24 07:14:53 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: OT eBay Offline? Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040524081226.023a1900@24.161.37.215> Out in NY at 8am - so far for almost half an hour now, I can't hit eBay. It's like it starts to hit the site and fails to load (seems to hang on load.ebaystatic.com). Anyone else having issues with this? I can hit anywhere else pretty much fine. -John Boffemmyer IV ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From ofthe_girl at hotmail.com Mon May 24 10:05:15 2004 From: ofthe_girl at hotmail.com (Cass) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: found you on the net looking for til306 IC's Message-ID: where did you find or where do you find til306's. i have lost all my old resources for finding them. any help would be greatly apprecialted From oldbear at arctos.com Mon May 24 12:21:33 2004 From: oldbear at arctos.com (Will Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Diablo 620 diasy-wheel impact printer needs home In-Reply-To: <200405241701.i4OH1Uhg080290@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040524130902.00af0360@216.230.209.13> I have a Diablo 620 daisy-wheel impact printer available to anyone who would like it. This printer was carefully restored by the folks at Printerworks in Hayward, California in 1988 and was lightly used for about a year before being put in storage. It looks to be in excellent shape. It has its matching cable which can be configured as a serial RS-232 or parallel Centronics interface. It is capable of proportional spacing and uses a film ribbon for a nice letter quality impression. Unfortunately, I do not have software drivers for it, so you'd need to do some research. (Many word processing programs of the era included appropriate Diablo drivers.) I have a number of different font daisy wheels around here somewhere and should be able to find them to go with the printer. I am located close to Boston and would much prefer having it picked up than trying to properly pack it for shipping. However, I do have plenty of bubble wrap and might be able to find a big enough box to send it via UPS if someone wants to pay for the shipping. Please email me if your are interested. Regards, Will From g-wright at att.net Mon May 24 12:42:49 2004 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: HP 1000 System in Huntsville AL Message-ID: <052420041742.10319.40B2341900032AB50000284F2160280741FF8B9798968D88D2@att.net> This is a pallet load of HP 1000 Pieces. If no one saw this, maybe some will keep it from the scrapers. I would take them if they where closer. http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=381756 Jerry From rachael at rachael.dyndns.org Mon May 24 16:34:54 2004 From: rachael at rachael.dyndns.org (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: poormans transputer In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799435B0A@mail.catcorner.org> Message-ID: <1058.640T2700T13544084rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> on 23-May-04 23:33:03, Kelly Leavitt wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jacob Dahl Pind [mailto:rachael@rachael.dyndns.org] >> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:36 PM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: poormans transputer >> >> >> I found a specialix si/xio multi serial port controler, sadly without >> the cables and actual link modules... >> >I have several of the interface boxes available (8 port ones). I don't have >spare cables though. Where are you located? Note that you should never plug >these in or unplg them with the power on. It would be a "very bad thing". >I'm speaking from experience here. I`m in Denmark, but I think it might be alot cheaper to find a new multi port serial card, than trying to track down some illusive cable for it. I`ll just have to make sure first that I actual can find drives for it, unlike that Newport system solutions card. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From mark at freedom22.org Mon May 24 16:12:02 2004 From: mark at freedom22.org (Mark Herro) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Omni key Message-ID: Hi Dave, Saw your article about the keyboard. I'm interested in purchasing it for $5 plus shipping. I'm in Indiana, zip code 46601. Can you tell me how much shipping would be, and if you still have the keyboard? Thanks Mark mherro@attglobal.net From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 25 07:17:56 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: HP 1000 System in Huntsville AL References: <052420041742.10319.40B2341900032AB50000284F2160280741FF8B9798968D88D2@att.net> Message-ID: <007f01c44252$5c0b1c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Nice bunch of 1000's no doubt. If they are F series, I'm sure a few list members would be interested. Note they require a EUC, and this typically takes 45 days or more to get approved. If you want to bid, get that paperwork in immediately. The pallet looks like all cpu's, but the auction mentions paper tape reader, console, printer, etc. Don't see those in the pictures anyways. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:42 PM Subject: HP 1000 System in Huntsville AL > This is a pallet load of HP 1000 Pieces. > If no one saw this, maybe some will keep it from the > scrapers. > > I would take them if they where closer. > > http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=381756 > > Jerry > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 25 07:18:37 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: TD Systems TDL-12 ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040524162617.008efb60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040525081837.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:11 PM 5/24/04 +0200, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Fred, >> >> I've had a couple of them. I sold the last one to Al. IIRC Mine had a >> Z8000 on it. >> >> Hey what do you know, I still a picture of it. It's at >> . > >Yup, that's the one allright. Any pointers to docs ? None that I know of but I wouldn't be surprised if Al didn't have some. He at least knew what the card was. That's more then I knew about it. Speaking of which, I picked up another pile of DEC stuff last night. I need to go get it out of the car and see what's there. I did notice a Chislin memory card (6x), a 2x National Semiconductor memory card and a third party RT clock card (2x). The DEC stuff is EVERYWHERE once I started looking for it! Joe >--f > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 25 07:31:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <01a201c441e4$1ba40720$71bcfea9@geoff> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040525083112.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:07 AM 5/25/04 +0100, Geoff wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Don Maslin" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:56 AM >Subject: Re: IBM AT Free to a Good Home > > > On Sat, 22 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > I have (not up for grabs) a Zenith mono monitor. It had what I called the > 'Irish PSU' (note for non UK people, over here 'Irish' jokes are much the > same as Polish jokes...). This combines the ease-of-repair of a switcher > with the efficiency of a linear PSU (for the software types, that's > roughly like combining the ease-of-understanding of machine code with the > speed of an Interpetted HLL :-)). > > Well, we in the colonies used to enjoy that type of joke, but > over the years have managed to hyper-sensitize just about all > ethnic groups, such that you put your health - physical or > financial - in jeopardy if you tell one. It tends to bring out > dirty looks, unfriendly comments or the "everyone is picking on > me" society - aka: American Civil Liberties Union - which can get > expensive in keeping some lawyer well off. > > - don > >Don't be such a prude Don, here in the internal colonies we enjoy a good >Irish joke as much as anyone, I think every country has their own form of "Irish" jokes. Here in the US they're called Pollock jokes although lately they've been replaced by "blond" jokes. In Canada they're called Newfy jokes. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 25 07:35:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: OT eBay Offline? In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040524081226.023a1900@24.161.37.215> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040525083546.00876d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I had the same problem about 3 or 4 o'clock. Didn't try it again after that. I also had the same problem with a couple of other sites but most sites worked fine. I think there was a problem with part of the net. Joe At 08:14 AM 5/24/04 -0400, you wrote: >Out in NY at 8am - so far for almost half an hour now, I can't hit eBay. >It's like it starts to hit the site and fails to load (seems to hang on >load.ebaystatic.com). Anyone else having issues with this? I can hit >anywhere else pretty much fine. >-John Boffemmyer IV > >---------------------------------------- >Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst >and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies >http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html >--------------------------------------- > > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue May 25 07:52:41 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: VT100 with VT125 upgrade and DECprinter I (LA180) In-Reply-To: <2A9E3E15-ADE3-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> References: <294674E8-ADCD-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> <2A9E3E15-ADE3-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <68EC6B97-AE4A-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> I have a VT100 with the VT125 upgrade installed and a DECprinter I (LA180) available for pickup in Bedford, NH. Is anyone interested? I got these along with a PDP-11/23 system and don't have room for them. If no one is interested I'll probably end up being forced to haul them off to the dump. From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue May 25 09:05:31 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer Message-ID: >From: "Teo Zenios" >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Subject: Re: Interesting Apple PowerBook tablet computer >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:55:29 -0400 > >The ANS 500 looks impressive, but your stuck running one version of AIX and >there is no support for anything newer then what shipped with the unit >(sure >there is probably a version of Linux for it). There really isn't much >information about these units around, must have died a quick death in the >market. > >I don't see why an AWS95 isn't considered a real server since it was the >best/last platform for A/UX, has a 300 watt power supply, security key that >controls power, and room for lots of scsi drives internally and externally. > The AWS95 is a monster, in desktop computer terms. It's got a massive, cache-accelerated SCSI-II controller eating up the PDS slot, tons of NuBus and memory slots, includes a DAT drive, and A/UX FLIES on it. The ANS hardware is interesting, I remember a MacWorld article on them, and they seem pretty beasty. RAID, redundant, hot-swappable power supplies, LCD status screen, etc... As far as alternate OSes go, I assume you could get some version of Linux running on it, and, *of course*: http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From srstein at seattleschools.org Tue May 25 09:59:50 2004 From: srstein at seattleschools.org (Stein, Sanford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: kaypro 16/2 Message-ID: <9760BB6417A1374D9B441265A120B32FBF45FF@snocex03.seattleschools.org> can the kaypro 16/2 be easily upgraded to include a hard drive. If so, what drive would fit in it and does it have a controller on board already. Sandy From squidster at techie.com Tue May 25 10:22:15 2004 From: squidster at techie.com (wai-sun chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. Message-ID: <20040525152215.852F079012D@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Greetings, I have been playing with my recently acquired PDP11/04 (BA11-L) and restoration has been going quite well (anybody who needs hints on how to convert a H777-CA/115V to a H777-CB/240V, please give me a ping). The console device is a DL11-W/M7856 which came with a 20mA (orginal console was a TTY), which I don't have. BTW, the bootstrap device is M7312. Therefore, I proceeded to make my own EIA cable from the DL11 manual so that I can use my VT320. I made a standard null modem configuration (BERG-DB25F) and made the necessary 9600/8N1 jumper changes to the DL11-W... The result is that I can get into the console emulator no problem and get the "@" prompt. But the problem is that the console doesn't seem to recognize any of my inputs; i.e. I can simply type anything and it doesn't response. I seem to be receiving data fine, but looks like whatever I transmit from my VT the DL11 doesn't seem to grok/respond. Any clues? Thanks. /wai-sun -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue May 25 14:42:58 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. In-Reply-To: <20040525152215.852F079012D@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20040525152215.852F079012D@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <40B3A1C2.5050208@gifford.co.uk> wai-sun chia wrote: > The console device is a DL11-W/M7856 which came with a 20mA > (orginal console was a TTY), which I don't have. BTW, the bootstrap > device is M7312. Therefore, I proceeded to make my own EIA cable > from the DL11 manual so that I can use my VT320. I made a standard > null modem configuration (BERG-DB25F) and made the necessary > 9600/8N1 jumper changes to the DL11-W... But you only receive the PDP-11's output, and your input gets lost? Have you made sure you added the link to the Berg connector that links the TTL-level serial data from the EIA receiver to the UART? The UART feeds output data to both the EIA and current-loop output drivers, but it need the link to select which of the two interfaces is active for received data. Sorry, I did this on a friend's PDP-11 and I don't have the print set in front of me to give you the pin numbers. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 25 14:48:49 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040525083112.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040525083112.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040525124813.E57345@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 25 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I think every country has their own form of "Irish" jokes. Here in the US > they're called Pollock jokes although lately they've been replaced by > "blond" jokes. In Canada they're called Newfy jokes. Are Microsoft jokes still acceptable? From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Tue May 25 15:17:44 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? Message-ID: What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? I've posted forsale items to the list before, but recently I've been putting more free items and some auctions up on VCM so I am hesitant to re-post them here and turn this into a SPAM fest. Then again, I'd like to get as wide an audience as possible. Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM (my guess is a definite maybe)? What if VCM posted a summary of all new items received for sale/auction at the end of each day? That would only add 1 msg to the list that people could quickly kill if they weren't interested but would insure available stuff was getting as wide an audience as possible for those people that don't frequent VCM regularly. Just a thought. _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx From tomj at wps.com Tue May 25 15:28:36 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Qwint Systems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1085516915.1973.1.camel@dhcp-248217.mobile.uci.edu> Every TI "Silent 700" series teleterminal use thermal paper. They were practically designed around that weird little thermal head. On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 11:31, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 24 May 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > > > >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: > > > > Vintage> That is definitely a unique feature. I'll have to check if > > Vintage> the TI was plain paper or not. I'm pretty sure it used > > Vintage> thermal paper. > > > > TI 73x series terminals are thermal paper printers. > > Indeed. But the one I'm referring to is a much later vintage (1980s) and > is very small (equivalent in size to the Qwint if not smaller). From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 25 15:29:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? > > I've posted forsale items to the list before, but recently I've been putting > more free items and some auctions up on VCM so I am hesitant to re-post > them here and turn this into a SPAM fest. Then again, I'd like to get as > wide an audience as possible. Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM > (my guess is a definite maybe)? > > What if VCM posted a summary of all new items received for sale/auction at > the end of each day? That would only add 1 msg to the list that people > could quickly kill if they weren't interested but would insure available > stuff was getting as wide an audience as possible for those people that > don't frequent VCM regularly. Patrick and I were considering this but as long as folks know that the VCM exists then there's no reason to annoy the list with VCM listings. The VCM has a "latest postings" feature so as long as you visit it every day or so (at the current rate of new listings) then you'll be able to catch anything new that gets posted. If you do list something to the VCM, a simple note to the list that you've done so is not out of line with what people have traditionally done when they put something up for sale or auction. http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 25 15:37:32 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B3AE8C.4080003@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 25 May 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > > >>What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? >> >>I've posted forsale items to the list before, but recently I've been putting >> more free items and some auctions up on VCM so I am hesitant to re-post >>them here and turn this into a SPAM fest. Then again, I'd like to get as >>wide an audience as possible. Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM >>(my guess is a definite maybe)? >> >>What if VCM posted a summary of all new items received for sale/auction at >>the end of each day? That would only add 1 msg to the list that people >>could quickly kill if they weren't interested but would insure available >>stuff was getting as wide an audience as possible for those people that >>don't frequent VCM regularly. > > > Patrick and I were considering this but as long as folks know that the VCM > exists then there's no reason to annoy the list with VCM listings. The > VCM has a "latest postings" feature so as long as you visit it every day > or so (at the current rate of new listings) then you'll be able to catch > anything new that gets posted. Thank you. Nothing personal, and I browse VCM anytime I'm looking for something, but in general, "acceptable advertising" is a great way to kill off any forum. Plus, if _you_ do it, we'd have to let Mailing List and his ilk do it. No smiley. Doc From melamy at earthlink.net Tue May 25 15:41:06 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home Message-ID: <250504146.49261@webbox.com> only if it is about their main IT person, Joe Linux... :) >Are Microsoft jokes still acceptable? > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 25 15:22:12 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405252043.QAA01455@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? I am in favour of it, for what that may be worth - at least assuming the item is on-topic, or at least topic-appropriate; "I have a 1992 Ford Mustang to sell" would, I think, be a bit much. :-) > Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM (my guess is a definite > maybe)? That would be my own guess too. :-) I don't, but I suspect I am exceptional in this respect. > What if VCM posted a summary of all new items received for > sale/auction at the end of each day? That would be of value only to those people that _do_ do VCM, and for them, I'd say it would be more appropriate for the VCM to generate individual mail to VCM members who have asked for it. I don't do VCM (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for reasons starting with but by no means limited to requiring me to agree to foreign legal jurisdiction), and as a result my reactions to VCM postings are about the same as to eBay postings: "gee, might be nice, too bad the seller has chosen such an unacceptable venue". I haven't kicked up a fuss about the various posts that basically just point to a VCM or eBay listing for two reasons: (1) the annoyance is small compared to the positive feeling I have towards my co-lovers-of-old-computers, small enough that I've been content to ignore it, and (2) I feel sure I am in a small enough minority in finding them smacking of "nyaah nyaah, look what you can't have" that I would be told to shut up and stop making a fuss rather than anyone else's behaviour changing, so there's no point in irritating people. I see absolutely nothing wrong with posting a for-sale here when the item is being sold directly, especially when it's, by intent, being sold by or to collectors rather than random computer dealers or (shudder) scrappers. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 25 15:51:46 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405252043.QAA01455@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > That would be my own guess too. :-) I don't, but I suspect I am > exceptional in this respect. Nope. > individual mail to VCM members who have asked for it. I don't do VCM > (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for reasons starting Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. --fred From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue May 25 15:59:20 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c4429b$26ad6b40$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > > (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for reasons > > starting > Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. Such as? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 25 16:04:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <20040525124813.E57345@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040525083112.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040525083112.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040525170407.0084fd40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:48 PM 5/25/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> I think every country has their own form of "Irish" jokes. Here in the US >> they're called Pollock jokes although lately they've been replaced by >> "blond" jokes. In Canada they're called Newfy jokes. > >Are Microsoft jokes still acceptable? I don't know. Ask Don. :-) Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 25 16:11:07 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. In-Reply-To: <20040525152215.852F079012D@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > The result is that I can get into the console emulator no problem and get the "@" prompt. But the problem is that the console doesn't seem to recognize any of my inputs; i.e. I can simply type anything and it doesn't response. > > I seem to be receiving data fine, but looks like whatever I transmit from my VT the DL11 doesn't seem to grok/respond. Make sure you have a wire between pins E and M of the BERG connector; this "tells" the DL11-W to use the EIA (RS232) circuits, and not the current loop ones. --f From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue May 25 16:32:47 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: Message-ID: <002201c4429f$e4bf6bc0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: for sale etiquette? > What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? > > I've posted forsale items to the list before, but recently I've been putting > more free items and some auctions up on VCM so I am hesitant to re-post > them here and turn this into a SPAM fest. Then again, I'd like to get as > wide an audience as possible. Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM > (my guess is a definite maybe)? > > What if VCM posted a summary of all new items received for sale/auction at > the end of each day? That would only add 1 msg to the list that people > could quickly kill if they weren't interested but would insure available > stuff was getting as wide an audience as possible for those people that > don't frequent VCM regularly. > > Just a thought. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from > MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx Personally, I don't find the ebay listings too bad, actually some of them are quite interesting and I see them as a kind of heads-up for something I would otherwise miss. But there have been a couple of posts lately that made me suspicious. I replied to one since the poster used a Canadian email addy but the source turned out to be in the states. The second one I've lost all details on but it seemed suspicious also. I guess if recognized members post, it's a good thing. I'm in the process of getting rid of some of my Hyperions (although not for sale) and the source came from here. bm From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 25 16:16:08 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <000c01c4429b$26ad6b40$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> References: <000c01c4429b$26ad6b40$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: <200405252136.RAA01713@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for [...] >> Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. > Such as? Speaking personally? - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction (unreasonable for individuals living non-near California, outrageous for individuals living outside the USA) and binding arbitrarion, with no right of recourse beyond that arbitrator. - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only (unacceptable to me, as I want to fetch pictures). - It requires that I use my full legal name. I don't even know what that _is_ by California law, and unless California law would let me use "der Mouse" (which it may, I've heard that in many jurisdictions a name you use long enough and consistently enough with no fraudulent intent becomes a legal name for you) it would be unacceptable, as that is the only name by which I am known in computer circles. Even if California law _would_ let me use "der Mouse" I would expect to have to fight for it, and I'm not willing to go to that much effort. - I may not engage in "activities that may adversely affect the performance or stability of the Site". If I may not do anything that risks crashing it accidentally, I can't even _touch_ it! - I am (well, would be) liable for my own acts and omissions, but the VCM isn't: "To the fullest extent permitted by law, the foregoing indemnities will apply regardless of any fault, omission, negligence, or breach of warranty or contract of the Operators of the Site or their suppliers, vendors, and assigns". Sorry; responsibility is a two-way street. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue May 25 17:04:55 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405252136.RAA01713@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >>> (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for [...] > >> Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. > > Such as? > > Speaking personally? Well spoken. That does about sum it up for me as well. Their T&C is very limiting, controlling and impressive on its users, and claims no responsibility for its own fu^H^Hmess-ups, if and when those would occur. (besides, even eBay learned (the hard way) that use of their system by non-U.S. citizens cannot be governed by U.S. law, which is why they started doing local ones where people have to register in that local legal entity.) --fred From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue May 25 17:08:54 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Connection Machine Message-ID: >From: Ken Campbell >Subject: Connection Machine > >Silly question, I'm sure, but has anyone ever seen a CM-1 or CM-2 >Connection Machine in the wild? > >For those not familiar with it: http://mission.base.com/tamiko/cm/ There are several in the wild, including mine. See: http://www.corestore.org/super.htm Please note my 'wanted' list: CM front-ends, software, and interface cables. Also as of today I'm looking for an RH780... my VAX-11/780 showed up and it hasn't got one :( Mike http://www.corestore.org From donm at cts.com Tue May 25 17:17:43 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040525170407.0084fd40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 12:48 PM 5/25/04 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 25 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I think every country has their own form of "Irish" jokes. Here in the US > >> they're called Pollock jokes although lately they've been replaced by > >> "blond" jokes. In Canada they're called Newfy jokes. > > > >Are Microsoft jokes still acceptable? > > I don't know. Ask Don. :-) I'm sure that they are, provided you don't try to use "window" in it and claim that no one owns it! - don > Joe > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 25 17:31:08 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Connection Machine References: Message-ID: <40B3C92C.8050205@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ross wrote: > There are several in the wild, including mine. See: > > http://www.corestore.org/super.htm So where are are the jungle vines and the swinging APE man? Nice to some of the less common machines still around. From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 25 17:45:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: Outbound laptop Message-ID: You'll have to pay some decent money for it, but if you've been looking for an Outbound for a while, here's an opportunity: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5701457714 The Outbound is an interesting laptop. Produced in the late 1980's (or early 1990s?) it was an answer to Apple's lack of a decent laptop. You had to pull the ROMs from your SE in order to use it though, as they shipped without ROMs to avoid getting sued by Apple. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 25 17:53:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Tue, 25 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > > That would be my own guess too. :-) I don't, but I suspect I am > > exceptional in this respect. > Nope. > > > individual mail to VCM members who have asked for it. I don't do VCM > > (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for reasons starting > Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. Aside from der Mouse's concerns (which I've discussed with him at length) what do you find "funny" in the VCM terms & conditions? There's nothing in there you wouldn't find in any other typical T&C, and as I've explained to other folks before, it's basically a "Cover Our Ass" in case someone who annoys us needs to be dealt with in a legal manner. We've had to kill off only a handful of users (out of hundreds) who were simply too obnoxious to deal with, and that was after we gave them LOTS of leeway. You have to be a real prick to get kicked off the VCM. The only time anything serious from the Terms & Conditions comes into play is if there is a user that is actively defrauding other users, or using our site to defraud. As long as you don't fit that profile, you have nothing to worry about. The Terms & Conditions of the VCM are standard and fair. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From donm at cts.com Tue May 25 18:04:15 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: kaypro 16/2 In-Reply-To: <9760BB6417A1374D9B441265A120B32FBF45FF@snocex03.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, Stein, Sanford wrote: > > can the kaypro 16/2 be easily upgraded to include a hard drive. You would need to find the HS controller board which looks very much like a WD1002-HDO. > If so, what drive would fit in it and does it have a controller > on board already. A 5.25" half-high drive such as the Seagate ST225 should fit, but you might have to fabricate a mounting bracket for it to replace one of the floppies. - don > Sandy > > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 25 18:13:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405252136.RAA01713@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Speaking personally? > > - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction > (unreasonable for individuals living non-near California, outrageous > for individuals living outside the USA) and binding arbitrarion, with > no right of recourse beyond that arbitrator. As I've explained before, you have to be a real fuck up for this to even come into play. If we are ever in a situation where legal action is required, we would be stupid to not make it easy for ourselves to sue an offending party. This is standard in business. I don't know any business that would say "if we sue you, we'll do you a favor and sue in your jurisdiction to make things easy for you". I don't ever expect (or at least I hope never) to have to sue anyone (or enter arbitration) over something that happens on the VCM. It's all fine and dandy when you're doing trading on a hobbyist basis but Patrick and I have opened ourselves up to some level of risk by hosting this service for public consumption, and we are covering our ass. I'm not going to apologize for that, nor are we going to waver on it. > - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only > (unacceptable to me, as I want to fetch pictures). As long as you aren't scraping our site and causing problems with our server then I don't think you'll hear any fuss from us. Again, this is to cover our ass against any potential assholes out there who would make our lives difficult. > - It requires that I use my full legal name. I don't even know what > that _is_ by California law, and unless California law would let me > use "der Mouse" (which it may, I've heard that in many jurisdictions > a name you use long enough and consistently enough with no fraudulent > intent becomes a legal name for you) it would be unacceptable, as > that is the only name by which I am known in computer circles. Even > if California law _would_ let me use "der Mouse" I would expect to > have to fight for it, and I'm not willing to go to that much effort. I think this is splitting hairs. What's on your birth certificate? Or your driver's license? Or your passport? That is what you should use. We didn't think it would be necessary to spell this all out since "full legal name" is pretty basic. Why do we require this? To make sure all users are dealing in an open and honest manner. If we allowed aliases then fraud could ensue. If you want to sell under an alias then use the Usenet or some other mechanism that allows you to hide your identity for whatever reasons you deem necessary, and you assume whatever risk comes along with that mechanism. The VCM is intended to be a safe trading community for the vintage computing hobby and this is one step to ensure that. To expect otherwise is being disingenuous. > - I may not engage in "activities that may adversely affect the > performance or stability of the Site". If I may not do anything that > risks crashing it accidentally, I can't even _touch_ it! This is also disingenuous. What would you like to do that you think risks crashing it accidentally? If you mean launching a DOS attack, or scraping huge volumes of data off the site (another form of DOS), then no, we don't want you doing that. Also, nothing in that clause refers to "accidental" activities. The system is pretty solid by now, but if an error does occur, it gets trapped and we're notified. If you make it your life's focus to try to crash our system then we're going to have a problem with that. This is all pretty basic. > - I am (well, would be) liable for my own acts and omissions, but the > VCM isn't: "To the fullest extent permitted by law, the foregoing > indemnities will apply regardless of any fault, omission, negligence, > or breach of warranty or contract of the Operators of the Site or > their suppliers, vendors, and assigns". Sorry; responsibility is a > two-way street. Not when we're offering this service for free. Would you also like that we turn on the TV and bring your milk and cookies to you on the sofa? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wacarder at usit.net Tue May 25 18:24:08 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <002201c4429f$e4bf6bc0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: I personally find it nice to be able to browse the Classic Computer list to see what might be for sale (or for free!). I also don't mind folks "pointing" us to items for sale elsewhere, such as on VCM or eBay. I come here to talk about old computer stuff and hopefully find an occasional lead on an old item that may be of interest to me. I've hooked up with other folks here to find an old computer or peripheral or two, and I've also had folks contact me to work out a deal or a trade on some items that I've had. I've never received any "spam" from anyone relating to items of interest on the Classic Computer list. I find it a very good community to be a part of, and there are lots of folks with varying interests and varying levels of opinions on topics, no different than a face-to-face club in the real world. As far as the legal-ese on the VCM and eBay, I do agree that certain phrasing may be annoying, but I also agree with Sellam that it's there just as a CYA for those who might try to defraud others, etc. I've been in the software development and services field for 25 years and unfortunately, this type of language and wording is part of a typical and standard business agreement. I have used similar canned legal "Terms and Conditions" documents before when I've sold products or services. It is a very rare occasion that I've ever seen the legal-ese actually put to use, and usually it was with good reason when it was exercised. I won't hesitate to post items here and I hope others feel the same. That's one of the things that I like about this list. That's my two cents worth, for what it's worth! Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:33 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: for sale etiquette? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: for sale etiquette? > What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? > > I've posted forsale items to the list before, but recently I've been putting > more free items and some auctions up on VCM so I am hesitant to re-post > them here and turn this into a SPAM fest. Then again, I'd like to get as > wide an audience as possible. Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM > (my guess is a definite maybe)? > > What if VCM posted a summary of all new items received for sale/auction at > the end of each day? That would only add 1 msg to the list that people > could quickly kill if they weren't interested but would insure available > stuff was getting as wide an audience as possible for those people that > don't frequent VCM regularly. > > Just a thought. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from > MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx Personally, I don't find the ebay listings too bad, actually some of them are quite interesting and I see them as a kind of heads-up for something I would otherwise miss. But there have been a couple of posts lately that made me suspicious. I replied to one since the poster used a Canadian email addy but the source turned out to be in the states. The second one I've lost all details on but it seemed suspicious also. I guess if recognized members post, it's a good thing. I'm in the process of getting rid of some of my Hyperions (although not for sale) and the source came from here. bm From vcf at siconic.com Tue May 25 18:18:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:48 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > (besides, even eBay learned (the hard way) that use of their > system by non-U.S. citizens cannot be governed by U.S. law, > which is why they started doing local ones where people have > to register in that local legal entity.) We're not eBay. We're the VCM. We're two hobbyists, just like you. And we're doing something we both love, which also happens to be providing a useful service to a lot of fellow collectors. I'm not one to ask for, or even require, priase, but come on. This is a bit much. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Tue May 25 18:24:43 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Outbound laptop Message-ID: >You'll have to pay some decent money for it, but if you've been looking >for an Outbound for a while, here's an opportunity: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5701457714 ANOTHER machine I've always wanted that has now moved into the "too expensive for me" realm. -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 17:56:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Chicago Test equipment sale??? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040524220922.05de9c20@enigma> from "Dan Veeneman" at May 24, 4 10:43:06 pm Message-ID: > I hesitate to post the following list, but since you asked... [...] > HP 3000 Model 226 Computer > > HP 85 Computer > HP 87 Computer > > HP 9100A Calculator (with top-mounted printer) > HP 9100B Calculator (with top-mounted printer and cover) > HP 9101A Memory Expansion > > HP 9121 Dual Disk Drive > > HP 9810A Calculator > HP 9820A Calculator (quantity 2) > HP 9821A Calculator > > HP 9825A Calculator/Computer > HP 9825B Calculator/Computer > > HP 9826 Computer (quantity 2) > > HP 9878A Expansion Unit > > HP 9915 Computer (unfortunately no keyboard) The comment 'wow' springs to mind. Those 9100s, 9810, 9820s and 9821 were real finds. The latter, in particular, is hard to find!. Should you need any help getting them going, I've got a fair amount of information on the 9100B and 9810 (oh, and 9825, 9915). Some of it might be applicable to the 9820 too (the processor, main backplane, PSU, printer, card reader and ROM module backplane are the same between the 9810 and 9820, the keyboard, display, I/O backplane, and the memory box and its PCBs are different). As I am sure you're aware, the 9915 keyboard is just an array of switches. I can look up the details if you want to have a go at wiring one up. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 18:02:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040525083112.00882a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 25, 4 08:31:12 am Message-ID: > I think every country has their own form of "Irish" jokes. Here in the US > they're called Pollock jokes although lately they've been replaced by The Polish joke I heard recently shouldn't offend too many people, if only becuase few will understand it. However, I suspect that's not the case here, so... Back in the days of the Iron Curtain, a group of Polish people decided to defect to the west. They managed to capture an aeroplane, and one of them thought he could fly it. So they all got in and it took off... They then flew west, and kept on flying. After some time, the pilot said over the intercom. 'Well, we've made it. We are now over the United States of America. In fact we are flying into New York. If you look out of the windows on the starboard side, you will see the Statue of Liberty'. All the passengers got out of their seats and rushed to see this. Unfortunately, the uneven weight distribution caused ther plane to roll over and crash. Which illustrates that 'Too many poles in the right hand half of the plane leads to instabilty' :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 18:06:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405252043.QAA01455@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 25, 4 04:22:12 pm Message-ID: > > > What is the view of folks posting items for sale on the list? > > I am in favour of it, for what that may be worth - at least assuming > the item is on-topic, or at least topic-appropriate; "I have a 1992 > Ford Mustang to sell" would, I think, be a bit much. :-) The original charter of this list allowed for-sale and wanted adverts for things on-topic on this list (classic computers, software, repair parts, manuals, etc). I don't see why this should change. I think that you should be sensible. Posting the same advert every day (or even every wwek) is going to be frowned-on, even if it is on-topic. But certainly a 1-off posting of the form 'I have a pile of PDP11 spares available to anyone who will collect them' is going to be appreciated. > > > Do most readers of the list also frequent VCM (my guess is a definite > > maybe)? > > That would be my own guess too. :-) I don't, but I suspect I am > exceptional in this respect. I don't look at the VCM either. -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Tue May 25 18:28:00 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Not when we're offering this service for free. Would you also like that > we turn on the TV and bring your milk and cookies to you on the sofa? BBBBWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ! ! ! ! ! ! !!!!!!! O! Jeesuz!! PLEASE don't do that when I'm drinking coffee at work!! Damn - where's the freakin' KleenWypes....... Cheers John PS: Chocolate chocolate mint chip, por favor.... From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue May 25 20:04:00 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Request for information on display terminals (third party request) References: <002201c4429f$e4bf6bc0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <000901c442bd$667348e0$6402a8c0@home> I got this request from my site. Please reply directly to the person, since they are not a member of this group. Reply to : Leslie and Randy Thompson Email as sent : ________________ Hi there! I am in search of two 1970s video display terminals and have been unable to find any information thus far on these two particular models. The first one is the ADDS Console 580 (ADDS stands for Applied Digital Data Systems. ADDS is now called Boundless Technologies. The second one is the DigiLog (300 Baud) Video Display Terminal. Any direction or tips would very much appreciated. I am trying to find one or both if at all possible. Thanks, Leslie Thompson _______________________ Thanks crew. If you have info, reply to them. bm From jpl15 at panix.com Tue May 25 20:11:09 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Request for information on display terminals (third party request) In-Reply-To: <000901c442bd$667348e0$6402a8c0@home> References: <002201c4429f$e4bf6bc0$6402a8c0@home> <000901c442bd$667348e0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: > > The first one is the ADDS Console 580 (ADDS stands for Applied Digital Data ^^^^^^^ I b'lieve that's actually "Consul" - as in consular.... See a nit - pick a nit - ;} Cheers John PS: I had one: big, heavy beast - I think Hans glommed on to it...? don't remember... From dancohoe at oxford.net Tue May 25 20:23:02 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: HP 1000 System in Huntsville AL In-Reply-To: <007f01c44252$5c0b1c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000801c442bf$fe274630$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:18 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: HP 1000 System in Huntsville AL > > > Nice bunch of 1000's no doubt. If they are F series, I'm sure > a few list > members would be interested. > > Note they require a EUC, and this typically takes 45 days or > more to get > approved. If you want to bid, get that paperwork in immediately. > > The pallet looks like all cpu's, but the auction mentions > paper tape reader, > console, printer, etc. Don't see those in the pictures anyways. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:42 PM > Subject: HP 1000 System in Huntsville AL > > > > This is a pallet load of HP 1000 Pieces. > > If no one saw this, maybe some will keep it from the > > scrapers. > > > > I would take them if they where closer. > > > > http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=381756 > > > > Jerry Here are some more parts, mostly 7906's, but note that they also advertise some as "DATA GENERAL" 7906's http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=372598 http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=372598 http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=383169 Of course, I really can't get at this critical cutting edge technology since this whole sale from helmets to tents requires an EUC. Dan From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Tue May 25 20:37:06 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Apollo DN550 monitor (was: for sale etiquette?) References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: Re: for sale etiquette? > > If you do list something to the VCM, a simple note to the list that you've > done so is not out of line with what people have traditionally done when > they put something up for sale or auction. > > http://marketplace.vintage.org Since this appears to be the prevailing view, I will just mention the item I most want to find a caring home: An Apollo 19" DN550 monitor. It is untested, unshippable, and as such is free for anyone that wants to come get it. Currently resting in Tewksbury MA, awaiting pickup. It was working when it was put into storage 5 or so years ago. Cosmetically it is in good shape. We are cleaning out my father's storage sheds so time is becoming an issue with this one. I'm hoping this doesn't get added to the scrap heap. http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=816 From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue May 25 20:33:37 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405252136.RAA01713@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <002001c442c1$77ab68a0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> I know Sellam has already replied, and I share his sentiments. But I'd like to add: > >>> (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for [...] > >> Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. > > Such as? > > Speaking personally? > > - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction > [snip] Standard. > - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only > [snip] Loose, I'll admit, but it's aimed at spammers and hackers, I think everyone can see that. > - It requires that I use my full legal name. I don't even know what... My Pendantic-O-Meter is pinned. You admit that it's the name you use "in computer circles", so by your own words it is therefore a nickname. I think you're an intelligent and thoughtful enough person to understand the spirit and purpose of what we're asking for, and frankly having to argue this point with you is tedious. Knowing a person's real name is customary in establishing trust between parties, and it transcends international boundaries. Having a nickname is fine, use it for your handle. Paint it on your car, whatever. Give us the name by which you're known to Revenue Canada--that's probably an adequate specification. > - I may not engage in "activities that may adversely affect the > performance or stability of the Site". If I may not do > anything that > risks crashing it accidentally, I can't even _touch_ it! Fair enough, we can make this specific to deliberate malicious purposes. That's a good point. > - I am (well, would be) liable for my own acts and omissions, but the > VCM isn't: "To the fullest extent permitted by law, the foregoing > indemnities will apply regardless of any fault, omission, > negligence, > or breach of warranty or contract of the Operators of the Site or > their suppliers, vendors, and assigns". Sorry; responsibility is a > two-way street. You've quoted the statement out of context. It's specific to the clause in which it appears, and even makes reference to those specific conditions. You're either bending the meaning, or you've just misinterpreted it. It has nothing to do with (and doesn't establish) any indemnity you as a member might have to provide for a cause of our sole doing. In fact, there's no specific provision, or limitation, for such a cause, and that's probably a pretty serious hole to our disadvantage. Thanks, Ashley, for your comments. We're not trying to be assholes. We're providing a free service, although that service has real costs for which we pay out of pocket. And there are people out there who are unscrupulous and will try to abuse it or us. We can't give greater warranties than our given to us by the various vendors, and we can't assume liability that isn't commensurate with the value of the agreement, and that value is currently US$0.00. Patrick From spectre at floodgap.com Tue May 25 23:30:38 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <002001c442c1$77ab68a0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> from Patrick Rigney at "May 25, 4 06:33:37 pm" Message-ID: <200405260430.VAA16738@floodgap.com> > Thanks, Ashley, for your comments. We're not trying to be assholes. We're > providing a free service, although that service has real costs for which we > pay out of pocket. And there are people out there who are unscrupulous and > will try to abuse it or us. We can't give greater warranties than our given > to us by the various vendors, and we can't assume liability that isn't > commensurate with the value of the agreement, and that value is currently > US$0.00. This is essentially a me-too post, but I think that Patrick and Sellam have been very generous to offer the VCM service gratis (in fact, I have a couple giveaways to post on it coming up), and there's nothing at all unusual or unreasonable about the terms they've put usage under. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In memory of Bob Crane ----------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 23:37:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <002001c442c1$77ab68a0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> from "Patrick Rigney" at May 25, 4 06:33:37 pm Message-ID: > > - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only > > [snip] > > Loose, I'll admit, but it's aimed at spammers and hackers, I think everyone > can see that. This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would suggest you learn whas a 'hacker' is. People who commit DOS attacks, etc are not hackers, they are criminals, pure and simple. A 'hacker' is what I wish I was good enough to become. There are several web sites that document this. -tony From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 25 23:55:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Request for information on display terminals (third party request) References: <002201c4429f$e4bf6bc0$6402a8c0@home> <000901c442bd$667348e0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <001f01c442dd$9e503a00$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I had an ADDS consul 580. Let it slip through my fingers many years ago. VERY retro! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: Request for information on display terminals (third party request) > I got this request from my site. Please reply directly to the person, since > they are not a member of this group. > > Reply to : > Leslie and Randy Thompson > Email as sent : > ________________ > Hi there! > > I am in search of two 1970s video display terminals and have been unable to > find any information thus far on these two particular models. > > The first one is the ADDS Console 580 (ADDS stands for Applied Digital Data > Systems. ADDS is now called Boundless Technologies. > > The second one is the DigiLog (300 Baud) Video Display Terminal. > > Any direction or tips would very much appreciated. I am trying to find one > or both if at all possible. > > Thanks, > > Leslie Thompson > _______________________ > > Thanks crew. If you have info, reply to them. > > bm > > From torquil at chemist.com Wed May 26 00:04:44 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: Message-ID: <000d01c442de$f7c2fae0$0500a8c0@floyd> > This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would suggest > you learn whas a 'hacker' is. People who commit DOS attacks, etc are not > hackers, they are criminals, pure and simple. A 'hacker' is what I wish I > was good enough to become. There are several web sites that document this. A bit extreme, don't you think? You can talk about hackers vs. crackers till you are blue in the face, but the fact is that whatever 'hacker' is supposed to mean, it doesn't anymore. The media has changed it. To 98% of the population a hacker is someone, who maliciously breaks into computers. And there are several million newspaper/magazine/etc articles that document that. Why do people insist on the whole "being a hacker is good" thing. Does it really matter if you have to use a new word to describe it? Or is being so hardcore about using it just an attempt to make one sound 'experienced'? Beats me. -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed May 26 00:33:28 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <000d01c442de$f7c2fae0$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <000d01c442de$f7c2fae0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200405260033.29137.pat@computer-refuge.org> Torquil MacCorkle, III declared on Wednesday 26 May 2004 12:04 am: > > This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would > > suggest you learn whas a 'hacker' is. People who commit DOS attacks, > > etc are not hackers, they are criminals, pure and simple. A 'hacker' > > is what I wish I was good enough to become. There are several web > > sites that document this. > > A bit extreme, don't you think? You can talk about hackers vs. > crackers till you are blue in the face, but the fact is that whatever > 'hacker' is supposed to mean, it doesn't anymore. The media has > changed it. To 98% of the population a hacker is someone, who > maliciously breaks into computers. And there are several million > newspaper/magazine/etc articles that document that. Heh. How about this... It means both! Two separate concepts covered by one word. I personally use the term to refer to both. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape over this, it's not like it's the only English word that has multiple definitions depending on context. Hell, I could argue "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet", even. Does it really matter what word we chose to represent each concept? Sorry for those of you annoyed by this kind of banter, it just annoys the hell out of me when people get into/start this flamewar. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Wed May 26 01:00:21 2004 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel (GMC)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Interesting Flops From the past Message-ID: Some pretty funny old stuff. http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/Stupid_Marketing/Museum_Exhibits/Stupid_P roducts/stupid_products.html Hope you enjoy. Greg Manuel ==> FREE spam killer: http://eliminatespam.com * FREE PopUp Buster+: http://popupbuster.net * $500 BONUS: http://www.freebonus4you.com/ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue May 25 22:30:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405260609.CAA13270@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [Sellam] >> - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction > As I've explained before, you have to be a real fuck up for this to > even come into play. Right. Or more precisely, for you, or your successors-in-interest (which latter is more likely), to see me thus. > If we are ever in a situation where legal action is required, we > would be stupid to not make it easy for ourselves to sue an offending > party. This is standard in business. Right, and it's one reason I don't trust businesses farther than I can throw them. Actions that are considered perfectly normal for a business would, in an individual, be considered psychopathic. It is perfectly normal for a business to try to get every legal advantage it can. That does not mean I should roll over and let them do so. In this case, it's not at all clear you could get more than an absentee judgement against me in any case, but (unlike, apparently, a lot of people) I refuse to pretend to agree to things I do not in fact agree to just because I know it's unlikely I'll ever be held to the agreement. (I also think this is way too small a thing to throw away what freedom I currently have to visit friends in California over.) > I don't know any business that would say "if we sue you, we'll do you > a favor and sue in your jurisdiction to make things easy for you". This is why legal systems include rules governing jurisdiction. Your T&C attempt to brush aside those rules, which evolved for very good reason; I consider that unacceptable. >> - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only >> (unacceptable to me, as I want to fetch pictures). > As long as you aren't scraping our site and causing problems with our > server then I don't think you'll hear any fuss from us. I know perfectly well I won't, and I know perfectly well that what you're trying to stop bears little to no relation to what I want to do. I nevertheless refuse to agree not to do something when I still intend to do it - and the third alternative, just not fetching images, would rather severely cripple my use of the site (admittedly it might still be better than not using it at all, if that were the only issue). >> - It requires that I use my full legal name. [...] > Why do we require this? To make sure all users are dealing in an > open and honest manner. And my point is that it would be working _against_ that goal in my case. Using my "full legal name" (in the sense you mean it) _would_ be hiding, since that is not a name under which I have any significant reputation; I would be risking nothing, as compared to putting my reputation behind my actions by going by the only name I have used in my entire on-net existence. > If you want to sell under an alias then use the Usenet or some other > mechanism that allows you to hide your identity You are sliding from one thing to another. You are writing as though not using my "full legal name" is "hid[ing] [my] identity", by writing of the two as if they are the same. This is not so, and this is my point: using my "full legal name" _would_ be hiding my identity. (I know this from experience. One of the first computer-related conferences I was ever at, I started out introducing myself by my "full legal name"[%]. After a few blank looks which turned to recognition when I said who I was, I learned.) [%] Not quite, actually, as my "full legal name" is one that is commonly abbreviated, as Patricia is to Pat, or Michael to Mike, or Robert to Bob, or Deborah to Debbie; I used the abbreviated form. Still, your marketplace, your rules. I'm explaining why I find that point unacceptable; I don't really expect you to change anything in consequence, especially since you haven't after I already said more or less the same things in a different channel some time ago. >> - I may not engage in "activities that may adversely affect the >> performance or stability of the Site". If I may not do anything >> that risks crashing it accidentally, I can't even _touch_ it! > This is also disingenuous. What would you like to do that you think > risks crashing it accidentally? Anything. I've seen software crash for the damnedest reasons. It could be anything from a host whose FQDN is more than twice as long as its dotted-quad form to a host whose address->name->address lookup returns an IPv6 address as well as an IPv4 address. I just don't know and can't guess. > Also, nothing in that clause refers to "accidental" activities. Exactly. There is no exemption for my _accidentally_ adversely affecting the performance or stability of the Site. "Activities that _may_" have such consequences is a tremendously broad brush, including such things as accidentally misconfiguring my reverse DNS in certain ways. No, I don't think the present VCM people are likely to misuse that clause. I (a) don't trust their successors-in-interest, especially since there is currently no clue who they might someday be, and (b) once again, refuse to agree not to do something when I fully expect to do it - even when I know what the prohibition is actually intended to prevent is not what I intend to do. [Patrick] >> - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction > Standard. To whom? In any case, still unreasonable. There is a reason choice-of-jurisdiction rules tend to make corporations come to individuals. >> - It requires that I use my full legal name. > My Pendantic-O-Meter is pinned. You admit that it's the name you use > "in computer circles", so by your own words it is therefore a > nickname. And in banking circles, I use a different name. Is it therefore a nickname too? Note that I use it with significantly fewer people than I do the "der Mouse" one. (I have a significant number of meatspace acquaintances, including some fairly good friends, who don't even know any other name for me than the Mouse one. In a common-law jurisdiction (which Quebec isn't), I could probably get legal recognition for it as a name for me, even, if I cared to bother.) > I think you're an intelligent and thoughtful enough person to > understand the spirit and purpose of what we're asking for, I think so. I just think that what you are asking for is not in line with that spirit and purpose - see what I wrote above on the subject. > and frankly having to argue this point with you is tedious. You don't have to argue it. In fact, I see little point; you have settled yourselves on that particular method of achieving that particular goal, and nobody's mind seems likely to change. Even if I think your means isn't a very good means - even if it _isn't_ a very good means and even if I'm an example of why - it's still your system and hence your prerogative to impose that restriction if you feel like it. I've pointed out the disagreement I see between what you asked for and what (I believe) you want; you presumably disagree, at least about whether it's worth changing the VCM ToS over. I don't see anything left to argue about. > We're not trying to be assholes. I know perfectly well you're not, and I don't think I ever even implied that you were. It most certainly was unintentional if I did. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jnick at cs.adelaide.edu.au Tue May 25 18:40:21 2004 From: jnick at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Nickolas Falkner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Encore Annex ANN 02 Terminal Server Message-ID: Hi, Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll post a working solution, if I can produce one, to the list. This isn't intended to close off this thread but I did want to record my appreciation of the really useful answers so far. Of course now I'm lamenting that I didn't save one of the IPXs that went into the skip so I could run a SunOS 4.1.3 server for the software! Cheers, Nick. -- -- Nick Falkner -- PhD Student -- Distributed and High Performance Computing Group -- The University of Adelaide From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue May 25 19:21:35 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040525202011.023a80b0@24.161.37.215> I've never defrauded, but I'm a serious pain in the ass, right Sellam? hehe. -John Boffemmyer IV At 06:53 PM 5/25/2004, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 May 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > On Tue, 25 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > > > > That would be my own guess too. :-) I don't, but I suspect I am > > > exceptional in this respect. > > Nope. > > > > > individual mail to VCM members who have asked for it. I don't do VCM > > > (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for reasons starting > > Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C. > >Aside from der Mouse's concerns (which I've discussed with him at length) >what do you find "funny" in the VCM terms & conditions? There's nothing >in there you wouldn't find in any other typical T&C, and as I've explained >to other folks before, it's basically a "Cover Our Ass" in case someone >who annoys us needs to be dealt with in a legal manner. > >We've had to kill off only a handful of users (out of hundreds) who were >simply too obnoxious to deal with, and that was after we gave them LOTS of >leeway. You have to be a real prick to get kicked off the VCM. The only >time anything serious from the Terms & Conditions comes into play is if >there is a user that is actively defrauding other users, or using our site >to defraud. As long as you don't fit that profile, you have nothing to >worry about. > >The Terms & Conditions of the VCM are standard and fair. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 26 02:48:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <000d01c442de$f7c2fae0$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <000d01c442de$f7c2fae0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200405260808.EAA13784@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > You can talk about hackers vs. crackers till you are blue in the > face, but the fact is that whatever 'hacker' is supposed to mean, it > doesn't anymore. The media has changed it. The media are (not "is") _wrong_. > To 98% of the population a hacker is someone, who maliciously breaks > into computers. And there are several million newspaper/magazine/etc > articles that document that. Then 98% of the population is _wrong_. Several million articles are _wrong_. You can call a dog a cat till you're blue in the face, but it will still bark rather than meow. > Why do people insist on the whole "being a hacker is good" thing. I don't know why "people" do - and it's not really "being a hacker is good"; there are, unfortunately, evil hackers. (Pleasantly few, but still, a very poisonous few; the mindsets that seem essential to hacking appear to be strongly correlated, for reasons I find mysterious but pleasing, with a reasonably functional ethical/moral sense.) I can perhaps explain a bit of why _I_ take such umbrage. Because it leaves us with nothing to call ourselves. Because we were there first and, like anyone who is having something important taken away, are hanging onto it. Because it is an insult to hackers to equate them with crackers - for the vast majority of the hackers, it is an insult on an ethical level, and for the vast majority of the crackers, it is an insult (to the hackers) on a technical level. The best analogy I have found so far for getting across the hacker attitude towards the journalistic mislabeling is to suggest imagining what would happen if an organized-crime boss who insists on calling himself a "businessman" resulted in the media everywhere starting to use the term "businessman" to mean an organized-crime type. Businessmen everywhere of the non-criminal sort would resent it, and rightly so. That is the position we find ourselves in when faced with this mislabeling of lamers with nothing better to do than break into other people's computers as "hackers". Yes, a few of them are hackers - though a cracker's being a hacker correlates strongly negatively with the cracker's making the news, making the journalistic labeling even more a *mis*labeling. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed May 26 05:24:18 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Outbound laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040526032238.00a58b70@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:24 PM 5/25/04 -0400, chris wrote: > >You'll have to pay some decent money for it, but if you've been looking > >for an Outbound for a while, here's an opportunity: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5701457714 > > ANOTHER machine I've always wanted that has now moved into the >"too expensive for me" realm. Maybe on ebay, but its still the sort of thing to find a mixed lot of old computers, at a hamfest etc. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 26 09:40:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only > > > [snip] > > > > Loose, I'll admit, but it's aimed at spammers and hackers, I think everyone > > can see that. > > This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would suggest Tony, you're not going to use it anyway, so enough with the theatrics already. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 26 09:49:20 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: Message-ID: <009501c44330$a0d7b980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I certainly don't mind an occasional post of on-topic items for sale. What I would not want is regularly recurring posts such as a "hot items of the week" or that ilk. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 26 10:11:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405260609.CAA13270@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > If we are ever in a situation where legal action is required, we > > would be stupid to not make it easy for ourselves to sue an offending > > party. This is standard in business. > > Right, and it's one reason I don't trust businesses farther than I can > throw them. Actions that are considered perfectly normal for a > business would, in an individual, be considered psychopathic. Ok, you're right. Let's just all go back to being peasant serfs living under servitude to a regional lord. We can all dwell in mud brick houses as we work the land as subsistence farmers and rely on our great noble lord to protect us from invading barbarians. That system worked great, so I don't know why we changed to what we have today. > In this case, it's not at all clear you could get more than an absentee > judgement against me in any case, but (unlike, apparently, a lot of > people) I refuse to pretend to agree to things I do not in fact agree > to just because I know it's unlikely I'll ever be held to the > agreement. (I also think this is way too small a thing to throw away > what freedom I currently have to visit friends in California over.) You know, I really wish I had the power you imply here. Because, rather than go after puny little insignificant targets like you, I'd go after people that really count. Like heads of state. > > I don't know any business that would say "if we sue you, we'll do you > > a favor and sue in your jurisdiction to make things easy for you". > > This is why legal systems include rules governing jurisdiction. Your > T&C attempt to brush aside those rules, which evolved for very good > reason; I consider that unacceptable. YANAL (You Are Not A Lawyer) so stop trying to act like one. > > As long as you aren't scraping our site and causing problems with our > > server then I don't think you'll hear any fuss from us. > > I know perfectly well I won't, and I know perfectly well that what > you're trying to stop bears little to no relation to what I want to do. > > I nevertheless refuse to agree not to do something when I still intend > to do it - and the third alternative, just not fetching images, would > rather severely cripple my use of the site (admittedly it might still > be better than not using it at all, if that were the only issue). Look, we're not going to go around drafting personal editions of the T&C for each user that objects to one thing or another. Either you use the VCM or not. You're really making a fucking joke of this, though my guess is you believe otherwise. > > Why do we require this? To make sure all users are dealing in an > > open and honest manner. > > And my point is that it would be working _against_ that goal in my > case. Using my "full legal name" (in the sense you mean it) _would_ be > hiding, since that is not a name under which I have any significant > reputation; I would be risking nothing, as compared to putting my > reputation behind my actions by going by the only name I have used in > my entire on-net existence. So you're saying if someone needs to sue you because you never sent them what they paid you for, they can put down "der Mouse" as the defendant? > > If you want to sell under an alias then use the Usenet or some other > > mechanism that allows you to hide your identity > > You are sliding from one thing to another. You are writing as though > not using my "full legal name" is "hid[ing] [my] identity", by writing > of the two as if they are the same. No, I'm not sliding from one thing to another. I'm pointing out the reality of the matter. Using an alias is hiding your identity. When I sent you that box of hardware, why did you give me your real name? Can't Fedex deliver boxes to "der Mouse"? > This is not so, and this is my point: using my "full legal name" > _would_ be hiding my identity. (I know this from experience. One of > the first computer-related conferences I was ever at, I started out > introducing myself by my "full legal name"[%]. After a few blank looks > which turned to recognition when I said who I was, I learned.) What a touching anecdote. Unfortunately, it bears no weight on the matter at hand. > Still, your marketplace, your rules. I'm explaining why I find that > point unacceptable; I don't really expect you to change anything in > consequence, especially since you haven't after I already said more or > less the same things in a different channel some time ago. Right. And now, as then, your arguments make a mockery of common sense. I appreciate constructive criticisms, but this is a just a big waste of my time. > >> - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction > > Standard. > > To whom? To whom? The entire world-wide business community. Have you heard of Earth perhaps? > >> - It requires that I use my full legal name. > > My Pendantic-O-Meter is pinned. You admit that it's the name you use > > "in computer circles", so by your own words it is therefore a > > nickname. > > And in banking circles, I use a different name. Is it therefore a > nickname too? How come your bank doesn't cancel your accounts for fraudulently using a nickname on your bank account when you opened your account and signed the form averring that 0everything you filled in was true and correct? By your own logic then that should be the inevitable outcome. Why do you waste so much time quibbling over VCM terms & conditions when much more important battles are to be won against the bank? Is it because you know the bank would not give you an account if you tried to argue over their T&C? > In a common-law jurisdiction (which Quebec isn't), I could probably get > legal recognition for it as a name for me, even, if I cared to bother.) YANAL > > and frankly having to argue this point with you is tedious. > > You don't have to argue it. In fact, I see little point; you have > settled yourselves on that particular method of achieving that > particular goal, and nobody's mind seems likely to change. Yes, we do have to argue it, because if we don't then your (at this point worthless) criticisms going unanswered would be misleading. > I don't see anything left to argue about. Hooray. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 10:41:49 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: RSTS/E software Message-ID: <000e01c44337$f65c1a70$99100f14@mcothran1> Does anyone on this list have any machine readable copies of RSTS/E besides the v7 one that we use with Bob Supnik's simh simulator? I am looking for some of the older versions, such as 6A, 6B, or 6C. I have v7, but in order to recreate an accurate reincarnation of what my group used in 1977-79, I need the v6 versions. Does anyone know if any of the v6 or v5 distributions have survived to the present time? Ashley From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 26 10:42:03 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: copy of SCSI 1 spec? (XT39.2) Message-ID: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> Hiya, has anyone got a early copy of the SCSI spec which just covers SCSI 1 (i.e. 8bit bus, 5Mb/s transfers only)? I want to see if I can get the parallel port on a modern PC hooked up to one of the old SCSI/ST506 bridge boards that I have, but given that I only have 12 data out lines to play with and 5 data in (13 in if I assume a bidirectional port) things are pretty tight and I obviously need to do some loading of stuff into external registers. I've got some reasonable info on the SCSI protocol, but having a better idea of which signals do what (and at what time) would be useful. All the docs out on the web seem to be for the latest SCSI revision though (and therefore contain a lot of info that I don't need). Furthermore I only really need the low-level protocol now; software-driven higher level command structure can wait for a few days! cheers Jules From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 26 10:39:09 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: RSTS/E software In-Reply-To: <000e01c44337$f65c1a70$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone on this list have any machine readable copies > of RSTS/E besides the v7 one that we use with Bob Supnik's > simh simulator? I am looking for some of the older versions, > such as 6A, 6B, or 6C. I have v7, but in order to recreate an > accurate reincarnation of what my group used in 1977-79, I > need the v6 versions. > > Does anyone know if any of the v6 or v5 distributions have > survived to the present time? I do have some, but those are newer than what you want.. havent seen any "old" ones yet. --f From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Wed May 26 10:45:00 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: Message-ID: <001a01c44339$26692b80$650fa8c0@Sol> > This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would suggest > you learn whas a 'hacker' is. People who commit DOS attacks, etc are not > hackers, they are criminals, pure and simple. A 'hacker' is what I wish I > was good enough to become. There are several web sites that document this. > > -tony > Tony, you are correct, and I apologize for the error. I mean "cracker" of course. Again, I think you know well what I meant. Patrick From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 26 10:53:32 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: copy of SCSI 1 spec? (XT39.2) In-Reply-To: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1085586811.12717.13.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 15:42, Jules Richardson wrote: > I want to see if I can get the parallel port on a modern PC hooked up to > one of the old SCSI/ST506 bridge boards that I have, oh, and if anyone's come across a schematic to do just that then let me know where... no point me reinventing the wheel (I get the impression that most parallel port SCSI controllers are way more complex though because they're built for speed and compliance with later SCSI standards - I don't need any of that so hope I can get away with just a few latches / tri-state buffers) cheers Jules From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 26 11:10:02 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: copy of SCSI 1 spec? (XT39.2) In-Reply-To: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040526161002.792.qmail@web51807.mail.yahoo.com> I found the document one and a half year ago. http://world.std.com/obi/Standards/scsi/ vax, 3900 --- Jules Richardson wrote: > Hiya, > > has anyone got a early copy of the SCSI spec which > just covers SCSI 1 > (i.e. 8bit bus, 5Mb/s transfers only)? > > I want to see if I can get the parallel port on a > modern PC hooked up to > one of the old SCSI/ST506 bridge boards that I have, > but given that I > only have 12 data out lines to play with and 5 data > in (13 in if I > assume a bidirectional port) things are pretty tight > and I obviously > need to do some loading of stuff into external > registers. > > I've got some reasonable info on the SCSI protocol, > but having a better > idea of which signals do what (and at what time) > would be useful. > > All the docs out on the web seem to be for the > latest SCSI revision > though (and therefore contain a lot of info that I > don't need). > Furthermore I only really need the low-level > protocol now; > software-driven higher level command structure can > wait for a few days! > > cheers > > Jules __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 26 11:17:36 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: copy of SCSI 1 spec? (XT39.2) In-Reply-To: <1085586811.12717.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040526161736.21643.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> There are a couple of reference designs on the internet. Here is one: http://www.6502.org/users/andre/scsi/ Here is another one: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/models/xilinxcpu/ The later provided software too. But the software was written in assembler language of the xilinx CPU they made. --- Jules Richardson wrote: > On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 15:42, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I want to see if I can get the parallel port on a > modern PC hooked up to > > one of the old SCSI/ST506 bridge boards that I > have, > > oh, and if anyone's come across a schematic to do > just that then let me > know where... no point me reinventing the wheel (I > get the impression > that most parallel port SCSI controllers are way > more complex though > because they're built for speed and compliance with > later SCSI standards > - I don't need any of that so hope I can get away > with just a few > latches / tri-state buffers) > > cheers > > Jules __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 26 11:28:23 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: RSTS/E software In-Reply-To: <000e01c44337$f65c1a70$99100f14@mcothran1> References: <000e01c44337$f65c1a70$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: >Does anyone know if any of the v6 or v5 distributions have >survived to the present time? Copies of V6 have survived, I'm aware of one list member that has a copy, but can't get to the physical media at this time. I'm also aware of one or two other people that have emulator images but, despite of the "Supnik License", are unwilling to make it available. I'm not aware of any copies of V5, but three DECtapes for V4A-12 were recently imaged. I'd be *VERY* interested in getting copies of pre-V7 RSTS, as well as additional versions of V7 and V8 , and any layered products. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed May 26 11:37:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: RSTS/E software References: <000e01c44337$f65c1a70$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16564.51168.874936.432765@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Zane" == Zane H Healy writes: >> Does anyone know if any of the v6 or v5 distributions have >> survived to the present time? Zane> Copies of V6 have survived, I'm aware of one list member that Zane> has a copy, but can't get to the physical media at this time. Zane> I'm also aware of one or two other people that have emulator Zane> images but, despite of the "Supnik License", are unwilling to Zane> make it available. Zane> I'm not aware of any copies of V5, but three DECtapes for Zane> V4A-12 were recently imaged. Where would that be? I've been hoping to get my copy recovered from 9-track tape, but the tape currently doesn't want to be found... Since I started on 4A, I have a special interest in that one. paul From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 26 11:34:32 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> I don't know any business that would say "if we sue you, we'll do >>> you a favor and sue in your jurisdiction to make things easy for >>> you". >> This is why legal systems include rules governing jurisdiction. >> Your T&C attempt to brush aside those rules, which evolved for very >> good reason; I consider that unacceptable. > YANAL (You Are Not A Lawyer) so stop trying to act like one. You don't know whether I'm a lawyer, only that I haven't said I am. (As it happens, I'm not.) I don't think you are either, "so stop trying to act like one". You doubtless have had legal advice over much of this; I too have, as it happens, consulted lawyers over some of the stuff I brought up. > Look, we're not going to go around drafting personal editions of the > T&C for each user that objects to one thing or another. Either you > use the VCM or not. Of course. I don't expect you to do an individual version for me. If you agreed with my points, you'd change your T&C for everyone, and you would have already done so. The point this fragment spun off from is part of answering the question of why I don't/won't use the VCM, which is after all where this whole thread started. > So you're saying if someone needs to sue you because you never sent > them what they paid you for, they can put down "der Mouse" as the > defendant? In a common-law jurisdiction, yes, I suspect they could, especially when the matter in question bore principally on my electronic identity. As far as I know that's never been tested, though I suspect (again, only "suspect") that not excessively dissimilar things have been done with other people involved. > No, I'm not sliding from one thing to another. I'm pointing out the > reality of the matter. Using an alias is hiding your identity. Certainly. That's why I refuse to use my muggle identity when dealing online, because there, it _is_ an alias, and _would_ be hiding my identity. > When I sent you that box of hardware, why did you give me your real > name? Can't Fedex deliver boxes to "der Mouse"? Well, aside from the question-begging inherent in your calling it my "real name"-- I did it partly because FedEx is not an online entity (in this respect, ie, in the interaction between them and me that this would provoke) and thus the best name for me _for them_ is the one you're calling my "real name". (Even with that, I think you don't have my "real name", only another of my "alias"es, though you can probably infer my "real name" from it.) I did it partly because I expected you to be uncomfortable with asking FedEx to deliver to Mouse. I did it partly because I expected them to be uncomfortable with it too. I did it partly because I expected it to smooth things over at Customs clearance. All of these added up to enough to overcome my inherent resistance to crossing identities between personas. I don't like mixing the two identities, but to some degree it becomes inevitable when mixing worlds - as when schlepping computer hardware around, especially across international borders. >>>> - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction >>> Standard. >> To whom? > To whom? The entire world-wide business community. So if I buy a GM car and GM has cause to sue me over it, they'll file in Michigan rather than Quebec? (Or wherever their head office is - I'm assuming Detroit.) >>>> - It requires that I use my full legal name. >>> My Pendantic-O-Meter is pinned. You admit that it's the name you >>> use "in computer circles", so by your own words it is therefore a >>> nickname. >> And in banking circles, I use a different name. Is it therefore a >> nickname too? > How come your bank doesn't cancel your accounts for fraudulently > using a nickname on your bank account when you opened your account > and signed the form averring that 0everything you filled in was true > and correct? By your own logic then that should be the inevitable > outcome. Because everything I filled in _was_ true and correct. ("different name" here meant "different from the name under discussion", ie, from the Mouse name.) I was pointing out that "in computer circles" in no way inherently indicates that the name referred to is a "nickname", by drawing an analogy. Perhaps this was too obscure a way of pointing it out. I also use the Mouse identity in other, noncomputer, circles; "in computer circles" does not mean "in, and only in, computer circles". > Why do you waste so much time quibbling over VCM terms & conditions > when much more important battles are to be won against the bank? Is > it because you know the bank would not give you an account if you > tried to argue over their T&C? No; it's because Quebec is a civil-code jurisdiction, and the naming laws in effect here require that one have exactly one legal name - and for individual accounts, there are sound reasons (such as reporting interest to Revenue Canada Taxation or whatever they call themselves this week) for requiring my legal name on the account. If I had gone to the trouble to change my name legally, yes, I would expect them to accept it. Even now, I may well be able to get an account in the Mouse name, as long as I give them my legal name for their records; I haven't tried, because that's not a sphere in which it's especially important to me to use the Mouse identity. It is rather arrogant of you to tell me that the "battle" "against" the bank is more important than "quibbling" over the VCM's T&C; it is not for you to tell me what's more important to me than what else, and I disagree with it in so many other ways that if I try to deal with them all this message will be twice the size it is already. (I'll be happy to do so, offlist, with anyone who's interested.) >>> and frankly having to argue this point with you is tedious. >> You don't have to argue it. In fact, I see little point; [...] > Yes, we do have to argue it, because if we don't then your (at this > point worthless) criticisms going unanswered would be misleading. Very well, then, perhaps it would be fairer to say that you don't have to continue to argue it? I think at this point it's clear (painfully clear, even) to any bystander that we disagree fairly fundamentally and neither of us is likely to change the other's mind. Since you imply you're responding only for the sake of third parties' opinions, I'm perfectly willing to attach a note, next time, about how it's all been hashed out before, to keep the same foofooraw from blowing up - care to suggest a wording? (I don't, of course, know for sure there will be a next time, but it seems likely.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 26 12:44:11 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40B4D76B.4050007@jetnet.ab.ca> der Mouse wrote: >I also use the Mouse identity in other, noncomputer, circles; "in > computer circles" does not mean "in, and only in, computer circles". > > >>Why do you waste so much time quibbling over VCM terms & conditions >>when much more important battles are to be won against the bank? Is >>it because you know the bank would not give you an account if you >>tried to argue over their T&C? > I too the legal bit needs to be revised, as both parties need to compromise. What bothers me more, is just what can be sold as hardware and software? If I buy a old PC ( for example only ), do I get the OS even if the HD is wiped since with out software the PC is useless? What about the software drivers for a weard HD or video card? Ben. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 26 13:02:52 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: RSTS/E software In-Reply-To: <16564.51168.874936.432765@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <000e01c44337$f65c1a70$99100f14@mcothran1> <16564.51168.874936.432765@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: >Where would that be? I've been hoping to get my copy recovered from >9-track tape, but the tape currently doesn't want to be found... > >Since I started on 4A, I have a special interest in that one. http://bitsavers.org/DEC/pdp11/dectapeimages/RSTS_V4-12 -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rdd at rddavis.org Wed May 26 13:23:59 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Wed, May 26, 2004 at 12:34:32PM -0400: > You don't know whether I'm a lawyer, only that I haven't said I am. > (As it happens, I'm not.) It's unlikely that anyone on this list would have so low an opinion of another list member that they'd stoop so low as to accuse one of being something as vile as a lawyer, MBA or politician. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed May 26 13:22:42 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: VT100 with VT125 upgrade and DECprinter I (LA180) In-Reply-To: <68EC6B97-AE4A-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> References: <294674E8-ADCD-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> <2A9E3E15-ADE3-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> <68EC6B97-AE4A-11D8-A45A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: The VT100/VT125 and the LA180 have been claimed along with the set of RT-11 V4 manuals and the RSX-11M V3.2 manuals. Thanks to everyone who offered to take this equipment. It's nice to know that there are people who want this stuff. I would hate to have to actually trash any of this old equipment! On May 25, 2004, at 8:52 AM, David Betz wrote: > I have a VT100 with the VT125 upgrade installed and a DECprinter I > (LA180) available for pickup in Bedford, NH. Is anyone interested? I > got these along with a PDP-11/23 system and don't have room for them. > If no one is interested I'll probably end up being forced to haul > them off to the dump. > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 26 13:24:01 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> You don't know whether I'm a lawyer, only that I haven't said I am. >> (As it happens, I'm not.) > It's unlikely that anyone on this list would have so low an opinion > of another list member that they'd stoop so low as to accuse one of > being something as vile as a lawyer, MBA or politician. :-) Now now. There are lots of good and honest lawyers and MBAs. There are even good and honest politicians, though I have come to the depressing conclusion that it is a handicap in a politician, the more so the higher in the political hierarchy. Much as people may like to slag lawyers ("what's it mean when you see a lawyer buried up to his neck in sand? someone ran out of sand."), I have to place them alongside "Newfies", Swedes, "Polacks", blondes, etc, in this regard (to tie threads together). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 14:08:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of electronics gear. Joe From squidster at techie.com Wed May 26 04:28:28 2004 From: squidster at techie.com (wai-sun chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. Message-ID: <20040526092828.23DF9790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> SUCCESS! You guys are great!! I wired the E and M pins together at the BERG connector and everything is as documented in the M9312 manual. Weird that for such an important wiring/setting, this wasn't mentioned at all in the manual.. Well I guess that's what a community is for.. :-) /wai-sun -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From squidster at techie.com Wed May 26 04:43:06 2004 From: squidster at techie.com (wai-sun chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs Message-ID: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Hello list, Have been fooling around with my 11/04 and all is great, but problem is I have no 70s peripherals. I only have 80s stuff; i.e. MSCP/RA/DU disks and tapes. So I'll need boot ROMs which supports RA and DU disks. Because my 11/04 used to be an embedded CNC drill controller, in the place of the regular CPU diagnostic is has a weird proprietary program which tries to initialize some long-gone/dead equipment which used to be connected to the PDP. In summary, I'm willing to pay a fair/reasonable price for the following M9312 ROMs (unless some one has spares, then I wouldn't mind them free of course :-)): 1. Console Emulator and Diagnostic ROM (P/N 23-248F1) For use on 11/04, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/45, 11/50, 11/55 systems 2. UDA50 DU Boot ROM (P/N 23-767A9) For booting from RAnn/RDnn MSCP disks 3. TK50/TU81 MU Boot ROM (P/N 23-E39A9) For booting from TK/TU TMSCP tapes 4. RX02 DY Boot ROM (P/N 23-811A9) For booting from a RX02 8" floppy (don't have one now, but trying..) 5. RL01/02 RL Boot ROM (P/N 23-751A9) For booting from RL01/RL02 disk cartridge systems (also don't have one now, but trying...) Thanks. /wai-sun -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 14:20:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for this? I didn't find ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. Joe From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Wed May 26 14:20:41 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? Message-ID: >connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest >thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >electronics gear. > > Joe 1/2 a dead rat in a big old dot-matrix printer. Well, actually it was a whole rat, but 1/2 was ground up really bad in the gear mechanisms and you couldn't really tell what it was anymore. (This was found as a result of a "my printer's not working!" complaint). _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 26 14:17:48 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:49 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. In-Reply-To: <20040526092828.23DF9790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > SUCCESS! > You guys are great!! I wired the E and M pins together at the BERG connector and everything is as documented in the M9312 manual. Good! > Weird that for such an important wiring/setting, this wasn't mentioned at all in the manual.. > Well I guess that's what a community is for.. :-) There were good reasons for them doing it this way. Also, this info WAS in the DL11-W manual, but you had to look carefully to notice it. Happy hacking! --fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 26 14:19:45 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > Hello list, > Have been fooling around with my 11/04 and all is great, but problem is I have no 70s peripherals. I only have 80s stuff; i.e. MSCP/RA/DU disks and tapes. > > So I'll need boot ROMs which supports RA and DU disks. Because my 11/04 used to be an embedded CNC drill controller, in the place of the regular CPU diagnostic is has a weird proprietary program which tries to initialize some long-gone/dead equipment which used to be connected to the PDP. > > In summary, I'm willing to pay a fair/reasonable price for the following M9312 ROMs (unless some one has spares, then I wouldn't mind them free of course :-)): ... Although I assume we can all check our systems and boards and come up with all of these, wouldnt it be much nicer (and cheaper) if you just get the ROM contents as binary files, which you then plug into an eprom? --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 14:26:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526152611.008c9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:20 PM 5/26/04 +0000, Damien wrote: >>connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest >>thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >>electronics gear. >> >> Joe > >1/2 a dead rat in a big old dot-matrix printer. Well, actually it was a >whole rat, but 1/2 was ground up really bad in the gear mechanisms and you >couldn't really tell what it was anymore. > >(This was found as a result of a "my printer's not working!" complaint). Phew! Probably easily located by the smell! Joe From bpope at wordstock.com Wed May 26 14:25:43 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526152611.008c9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at May 26, 04 03:26:11 pm Message-ID: <200405261925.PAA20816@wordstock.com> And thusly Joe R. spake: > > At 07:20 PM 5/26/04 +0000, Damien wrote: > >>connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > >>thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > >>electronics gear. > >> > >> Joe > > > >1/2 a dead rat in a big old dot-matrix printer. Well, actually it was a > >whole rat, but 1/2 was ground up really bad in the gear mechanisms and you > >couldn't really tell what it was anymore. > > > >(This was found as a result of a "my printer's not working!" complaint). > > Phew! Probably easily located by the smell! > I wonder if there was a lot of squeaking going on just before the printer stopped working... Cheers, Bryan Pope From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 14:28:40 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040526122040.B86151@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 26 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > electronics gear. folding money in a disused floppy drive? - gives added meaning to "best price", or "how much would you pay me to take it away?" paper clips in floppy drive marijuana seeds in TRS-80 keyboard 5WR vise-grips keys screwdriver bits (NOT correct ones for task) Oh, you wanted STRANGEST thing. Microsoft software. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 14:35:16 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs References: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> I currently have 3 M9312 boards with various ROMs. I will be getting a PDP 11/34 tomorrow or Friday and I will be removing the M9312 from it because I need to send it back to the person I got the 11/34 from. I'll then install one of my 3 M9312 boards. Of my three M9312s, I will use one in the 11/34 for RL01/02 bootstrap support. I am also keeping one (or more) of each type of ROM that I have. Some of the ROMs on these boards are not marked with a standard DEC number (they appear to be PROMs that someone made), so I will need to inspect the contents of the ROMs once I put the board in the 11/34. After I take inventory, I'll let you have (for a small fee, whatever they cost me) a board with the console emulator ROM and let you know what other ROMs I have left. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "wai-sun chia" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:43 AM Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs > Hello list, > Have been fooling around with my 11/04 and all is great, but problem is I have no 70s peripherals. I only have 80s stuff; i.e. MSCP/RA/DU disks and tapes. > > So I'll need boot ROMs which supports RA and DU disks. Because my 11/04 used to be an embedded CNC drill controller, in the place of the regular CPU diagnostic is has a weird proprietary program which tries to initialize some long-gone/dead equipment which used to be connected to the PDP. > > In summary, I'm willing to pay a fair/reasonable price for the following M9312 ROMs (unless some one has spares, then I wouldn't mind them free of course :-)): > > 1. Console Emulator and Diagnostic ROM (P/N 23-248F1) > For use on 11/04, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/45, 11/50, 11/55 systems > > 2. UDA50 DU Boot ROM (P/N 23-767A9) > For booting from RAnn/RDnn MSCP disks > > 3. TK50/TU81 MU Boot ROM (P/N 23-E39A9) > For booting from TK/TU TMSCP tapes > > 4. RX02 DY Boot ROM (P/N 23-811A9) > For booting from a RX02 8" floppy > (don't have one now, but trying..) > > 5. RL01/02 RL Boot ROM (P/N 23-751A9) > For booting from RL01/RL02 disk cartridge systems > (also don't have one now, but trying...) > > > Thanks. > /wai-sun > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 26 14:35:31 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest >>thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >>electronics gear. >> >> Joe > >1/2 a dead rat in a big old dot-matrix printer. Well, actually it >was a whole rat, but 1/2 was ground up really bad in the gear >mechanisms and you couldn't really tell what it was anymore. > >(This was found as a result of a "my printer's not working!" complaint). Thankfully it was one of my coworkers that found it, but would a sea snake in the cooling system for a 400Hz frequency converter count? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 26 14:38:16 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040526193816.27766.qmail@web51801.mail.yahoo.com> Is it compatible with MC6803? vax, 3900 --- "Joe R." wrote: > Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for > this? I didn't find > ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. > > Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From torquil at chemist.com Wed May 26 14:38:59 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> One computer I had a few months ago had "Give this back to Joe next tuesday" written on one of the SCSI cables inside. A MicroVAX 3100 M10 I got a while back was shipped 'clean', but the guy apparently washed the outside of the case only, it was the dirtiest computer I've ever seen. You could not tell what was in it, it had literally half an inch of dust on every inch of it. You could make out an RZ25, but in the bottom you couldn't even tell the memory boards were in there. Not really weird I guess. But I am sure everyone has heard the story (legend?) of the computer that got sent back to the manufacturer for repairs and they found the end of some guys finger inside. He'd apparently tried to install something, then the monitor fell sideways on the case or something... the part that doesn't add up is why wouldn't he get his finger out? Normally when one gets their finger cut off it isn't such a non-issue that they don't bother spending 30 seconds to recover it for a possible re-attachment. Probably a myth. -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 26 14:42:03 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1085600522.12717.108.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 19:20, Joe R. wrote: > Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for this? I > didn't find ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. I could do with one too - I grabbed a copy of what looked like the right thing from www.datasheetarchive.com a few weeks ago but it turns out there's very little mention of the 6803 in there. I have a few of the things (and a whole pile of 68A09 CPUs which also seem very hard to find data for). cheers Jules From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 26 14:41:58 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <20040526122040.B86151@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040526194159.57411.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fred Cisin wrote: > folding money in a disused floppy drive? - gives > added meaning to > "best price", or "how much would you pay me to take > it away?" > paper clips in floppy drive > marijuana seeds in TRS-80 keyboard > 5WR vise-grips > keys > screwdriver bits (NOT correct ones for task) A ring in a dot matrix printer. Well, it is the cheap $1 type. vax, 3900 > > > Oh, you wanted STRANGEST thing. Microsoft > software. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 14:45:31 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <20040526124424.F86151@newshell.lmi.net> Howzbout: the ivy growing up through the recent Castro Valley PDP-11/40 rescue? From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed May 26 14:45:59 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <00da01c4435a$121c78f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? > One computer I had a few months ago had "Give this back to Joe next tuesday" > written on one of the SCSI cables inside. A MicroVAX 3100 M10 I got a while > back was shipped 'clean', but the guy apparently washed the outside of the > case only, it was the dirtiest computer I've ever seen. You could not tell > what was in it, it had literally half an inch of dust on every inch of it. > You could make out an RZ25, but in the bottom you couldn't even tell the > memory boards were in there. Not really weird I guess. > > But I am sure everyone has heard the story (legend?) of the computer that > got sent back to the manufacturer for repairs and they found the end of some > guys finger inside. He'd apparently tried to install something, then the > monitor fell sideways on the case or something... the part that doesn't add > up is why wouldn't he get his finger out? Normally when one gets their > finger cut off it isn't such a non-issue that they don't bother spending 30 > seconds to recover it for a possible re-attachment. Probably a myth. > > > -- > Thanks, > Torquil MacCorkle, III > Lexington, Virginia > > They can only attach something that was cut off cleanly I believe, having a small part of your finger crushed by the blunt metal case of a computer would not qualify. Still if it was my finger I would have looked for it, would make a cool keychain. From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 26 14:43:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > You don't know whether I'm a lawyer, only that I haven't said I am. > (As it happens, I'm not.) After the above sentence, the rest of your message doesn't bear responding to. Save for this one: > The point this fragment spun off from is part of answering the question > of why I don't/won't use the VCM, which is after all where this whole > thread started. You started an unrelated thread to lob criticism of the VCM that you've already made at least twice in private conversations between you, Patrick, and I, that we adequately covered. To choose to bring it up yet again in a public forum is insulting and tells me that your argument is more about wanting to feed your own ego. If you don't want to use the VCM then fine, don't use it. If you don't like the policies then fine, don't use it. If, after all the time we've taken (at this point wasted) to explain why our policies are such--and even modifying them in some cases where you made a good point, you are still not satisfied, then that tells me you have absolutely no business sense and are arguing for the sake of arguing. The rest of your message proves this to me. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Wed May 26 14:48:06 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? Message-ID: >paper clips in floppy drive Paper clips, 3x5 index cards, Post-It pads, or other scrap paper is normally stored in the floppy drives of the PCs in my call center. They think that slot is really for office supply storage. I no longer consider that strange, in fact, I now expect it and have redesigned how I deal with those machines anticipating that the floppy drives have all been broken because of it. -chris From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed May 26 14:48:12 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1085600892.7113.22.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 15:35, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Thankfully it was one of my coworkers that found it, but would a sea > snake in the cooling system for a 400Hz frequency converter count? > > Zane How about a hermit crab in and amongst the brush rigging of a large DC motor on a submarine? Then there was the time when we took a deep dive angle and the coffee pot flew out of the maker, smashing itself to bits against the electrical switchboards. When the engine room watch reported this I checked the ground detector and got to report that there were "Coffee grounds on the 5S bus" From jplist at kiwigeek.com Wed May 26 14:55:58 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found > a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a > HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in Credit card in a 1.44MB floppy disk drive. Used to work for an ISP with "Instant signup online" back in the day. Paid by credit card from a website. So he stuck his credit card into the floppy drive. Oh yes, I'm sure you think this is a whopping load of BS. Hell, I've even heard of this in mythlike proportions myself (You know, "How do you know when a blonde has been using your computer?"). I wish I was joking. I was there. I watched the dude with the needle nose pliers pull the VISA out of the thing. There really are people that dumb out there. JP From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 15:07:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> People will put ANYTHING into the opening of a floppy drive. Every competent college computer lab keeps tools around just for that, usually consisiting of some combinations of butter knife, hemostat, long-nose pliers, etc. We had an elderly applicant for a teaching position who tried to use one of the machines in the lab. When he couldn't find the CD drive, he put a CD into the 5.25" floppy drive. The college administration morons actually hired him for one semester! (I mention that he was elderly only to discount the possibility that he was too young to be familiar with 5.25") From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 26 15:16:14 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <20040526124424.F86151@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > Howzbout: > the ivy growing up through the recent Castro Valley PDP-11/40 rescue? That wasnt weird, but extremely painful, Fred. --f From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 15:24:52 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: Hackers (was: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405260808.EAA13784@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000d01c442de$f7c2fae0$0500a8c0@floyd> <200405260808.EAA13784@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040526132107.O86151@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 26 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > The best analogy I have found so far for getting across the hacker > attitude towards the journalistic mislabeling is to suggest imagining > what would happen if an organized-crime boss who insists on calling > himself a "businessman" resulted in the media everywhere starting to > use the term "businessman" to mean an organized-crime type. > Businessmen everywhere of the non-criminal sort would resent it, and > rightly so. That was the analogy that the late Bob Bickford used 20 years ago. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 15:02:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <20040526193816.27766.qmail@web51801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526160225.008e5750@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:38 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >Is it compatible with MC6803? I don't know. That's one reason why I'm looking for one. Joe > >vax, 3900 > >--- "Joe R." wrote: >> Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for >> this? I didn't find >> ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. >> >> Joe > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 15:30:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <20040526124424.F86151@newshell.lmi.net> References: <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526163007.008e4100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:45 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >Howzbout: >the ivy growing up through the recent Castro Valley PDP-11/40 rescue? Naw. That's common here in Florida. I looked at the pictures and it didn't look like they'd been sitting out more than a couple of months by Florida standards. I ROUTINELY find birds nest, wasp nests, plants, animal dens and other forms of wildlife in anything that's left outside around here. BTW do any of you guys have "dirt-daubers"? They're a wasp and they like to build nests out of mud. They LOVE to find hollow things like tubing (connectors, gun barrels, etc etc) and build a nest in it. First they put in a good solid plug of mud about 2" side the hollow then they lay an egg in it and finally plug up the end of the opening. Their plugs are VERY solid and they they can do the job from start to finish in less than a day. You really have to careful with stuff around here. If you leave a tube such as a brake line open they'll build a plug in it and when you put it back together you'll wonder why the hell it doesn't work! Guns are a real menace. If you shoot one with a nest in the barrel it WILL explode the barrel. It's a fairly common occurance around here. If you have anything with hollow electrical connectors that's been outside for any time you'll often find the hollows filled with hard mud and wasp grubs! Joe From torquil at chemist.com Wed May 26 15:28:24 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <00ab01c44360$003792e0$0500a8c0@floyd> > Now now. There are lots of good and honest lawyers and MBAs. There > are even good and honest politicians, though I have come to the > depressing conclusion that it is a handicap in a politician, the more > so the higher in the political hierarchy. Now if you had thought of that 500 years ago, kids would be learning about 'der Mouse' instead of Machiavelli. --- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 15:29:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526162956.00af4de0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:38 PM 5/26/04 -0400, Torquil MacCorkle wrote: >One computer I had a few months ago had "Give this back to Joe next tuesday" >written on one of the SCSI cables inside. A MicroVAX 3100 M10 I got a while >back was shipped 'clean', but the guy apparently washed the outside of the >case only, it was the dirtiest computer I've ever seen. You could not tell >what was in it, it had literally half an inch of dust on every inch of it. >You could make out an RZ25, but in the bottom you couldn't even tell the >memory boards were in there. Not really weird I guess. > >But I am sure everyone has heard the story (legend?) of the computer that >got sent back to the manufacturer for repairs and they found the end of some >guys finger inside. He'd apparently tried to install something, then the >monitor fell sideways on the case or something... the part that doesn't add >up is why wouldn't he get his finger out? Normally when one gets their >finger cut off it isn't such a non-issue that they don't bother spending 30 >seconds to recover it for a possible re-attachment. Probably a myth. Maybe not. Was it a Burroughs B1700? I went to school on these at the factory in King of Prussia, PA in 1977 or thereabouts. These had a large tray of fans located near the bottom of the cabinet. While I was there one of the guys in the class stuck his finger inside the cabinet and up into one of the fans. He lost the end of finger. I would have thought that they took it apart and got the finger our but perhaps not! I once worked in a food processing plant and one of the guys there got a finger loped off in a box forming machine. They looked and looked and looked but never found his finger. The boxs were used to pack chicken patties for BurgerKing. You just have to wonder if that finger ever showed up somewhere!! Hey! Just noticed that you're from Lexington. The last incident happened in at Golden West in Bedford. That's just over the Blue Ridge from you. Joe > > >-- >Thanks, >Torquil MacCorkle, III >Lexington, Virginia > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 15:34:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526163429.00af9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:07 PM 5/26/04 -0700, Fred wrote: >People will put ANYTHING into the opening of a floppy drive. >Every competent college computer lab keeps tools around just for that, >usually consisiting of some combinations of butter knife, hemostat, >long-nose pliers, etc. > > >We had an elderly applicant for a teaching position who tried to use one >of the machines in the lab. When he couldn't find the CD drive, he put >a CD into the 5.25" floppy drive. The college administration morons >actually hired him for one semester! (I mention that he was elderly only >to discount the possibility that he was too young to be familiar with >5.25") > I had a customer that did exactly the same thing but she was about 30 years old (and yes, she was blond!) It was an expensive CD and I had to take the drive out and completely apart to get the CD back in one piece. Joe From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed May 26 15:33:46 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526160225.008e5750@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040526203346.33747.qmail@web51801.mail.yahoo.com> I have several MC6803P. They are 40 pin DIP type. Google says they are compatible with one kind of 6502 or 6800 support chip. vax, 3900 --- "Joe R." wrote: > At 12:38 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: > >Is it compatible with MC6803? > > I don't know. That's one reason why I'm looking > for one. > > Joe > > > > > >vax, 3900 > > > >--- "Joe R." wrote: > >> Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for > >> this? I didn't find > >> ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. > >> > >> Joe > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Wed May 26 15:33:47 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B4FF2B.5070401@sbcglobal.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > >>The point this fragment spun off from is part of answering the question >>of why I don't/won't use the VCM, which is after all where this whole >>thread started. > > > You started an unrelated thread to lob criticism of the VCM that you've > already made at least twice in private conversations between you, > Patrick, and I, that we adequately covered. To choose to bring it up yet > again in a public forum is insulting and tells me that your argument is > more about wanting to feed your own ego... > Actually, he only brought it up because someone asked why he didn't use the VCM, and he gave a short reply stating the he didn't agree with the T&Cs. Then someone asked if he could elaborate on his opinions, which he did. Nothing wrong with that. Now could we all just back our tempers down a bit, let this drop, and get back to our regularly scheduled programs already? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From vrs at msn.com Wed May 26 15:36:57 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for this? I didn't find > ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. Here is the one from JameCo, who claims to still be selling them :-). http://www.jameco.com/jameco/Products/ProdDS/43529.pdf Vince From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 15:41:13 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? References: <006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd><3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><006d01c44359$18f18bd0$0500a8c0@floyd> <3.0.6.32.20040526163007.008e4100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <012401c44361$c9c02cc0$99100f14@mcothran1> Yep, I know all about dirt-daubers. They live around my house and build their hard mud nests all over the place. They are good in one way, because they catch black widow spiders and put them inside their dirt tubes to feed to the young wasps. Other than that, their nests are annoying. The wasps don't seem to be agressive or sting. Ashley P.S. I'll quit since I'm veering off topic. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:30 PM Subject: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? > At 12:45 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: > >Howzbout: > >the ivy growing up through the recent Castro Valley PDP-11/40 rescue? > > Naw. That's common here in Florida. I looked at the pictures and it > didn't look like they'd been sitting out more than a couple of months by > Florida standards. I ROUTINELY find birds nest, wasp nests, plants, animal > dens and other forms of wildlife in anything that's left outside around here. > > BTW do any of you guys have "dirt-daubers"? They're a wasp and they > like to build nests out of mud. They LOVE to find hollow things like tubing > (connectors, gun barrels, etc etc) and build a nest in it. First they put > in a good solid plug of mud about 2" side the hollow then they lay an egg > in it and finally plug up the end of the opening. Their plugs are VERY > solid and they they can do the job from start to finish in less than a day. > You really have to careful with stuff around here. If you leave a tube such > as a brake line open they'll build a plug in it and when you put it back > together you'll wonder why the hell it doesn't work! Guns are a real > menace. If you shoot one with a nest in the barrel it WILL explode the > barrel. It's a fairly common occurance around here. If you have anything > with hollow electrical connectors that's been outside for any time you'll > often find the hollows filled with hard mud and wasp grubs! > > Joe From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed May 26 15:41:49 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? Message-ID: <200405262041.NAA20487@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > >At 12:45 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >>Howzbout: >>the ivy growing up through the recent Castro Valley PDP-11/40 rescue? > > Naw. That's common here in Florida. I looked at the pictures and it >didn't look like they'd been sitting out more than a couple of months by >Florida standards. I ROUTINELY find birds nest, wasp nests, plants, animal >dens and other forms of wildlife in anything that's left outside around here. > Hi Joe Although not a computer, it was in Florida. When I was there, one of my lady friends talked me into working on he old Mercedes. We when out to start looking it over. On opening the driver door, there was a large black widow spider. A few moments later we'd gotten her into a soda cup from a fast food. I next started to move some of the stuff around so I could get in and do some more looking over. This is when the largest scorpion I'd ever seen ran across my lap. Still wanting to help out, we opened the hood to see what size battery it would require. That is when the rattle snake let us know that we were in his territory. At this point I told her that a dead boy friend was not to good and that I'd only consider working on the car if she got it fumigated. Dwight From allain at panix.com Wed May 26 15:54:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <015e01c44363$9d1a8240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I have a PDP-11 here that I'd ike to power on but there's no power switch that I can locate. The power supply is a H750 and the A/C entry panel is a BC05t with two separate lower power three pin connectors on it. I pinned them both out as: +33V, external red wire 0V, external white wire gnd,external green wire They're the same shape&size connectors as the four pin 5v/12v ones used everywhere today. Figured that two of these wires could go to an "on" switch but thought it would be better to ask than to just go around shorting things to see what happened. Thanks for any help, John A. From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 16:04:51 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <015e01c44363$9d1a8240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000c01c44365$167d8820$99100f14@mcothran1> John, What model of PDP-11 is this? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? > I have a PDP-11 here that I'd ike to power on but there's > no power switch that I can locate. > > The power supply is a H750 and the A/C entry panel is a BC05t > with two separate lower power three pin connectors on it. > I pinned them both out as: > +33V, external red wire > 0V, external white wire > gnd,external green wire > They're the same shape&size connectors as the four > pin 5v/12v ones used everywhere today. > > Figured that two of these wires could go to an "on" switch but thought > it would be better to ask than to just go around shorting things to see > what happened. > > Thanks for any help, > John A. > From allain at panix.com Wed May 26 16:04:26 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <015e01c44363$9d1a8240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01be01c44365$07e013a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > What model of PDP-11 is this? 11/10 which I've read is very similar to an 11/05. John A. From dmabry at mich.com Wed May 26 16:08:12 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B5073C.2020902@mich.com> Well, Joe, this may not be all that unique. But couple it with the computer involved and I'll bet it is unusual, to say the least. I had an Intel Intellec 800 on the floor of my basement. A finished basement before someone scolds me for relegating such a piece of history to a musty old basement. I also had a dog that ate Iams dry food. One day as I was moving things around I heard a funny sound inside the Intellec 800. When I opened it up I found several cups of the dry dog food. Seems a mouse had been stealing the food from the dog's dish and hiding it in the Intellec 800. But the Intel machine was all closed up. The only way I could see that the mouse could get in was through the cooling fan on the back of the machine. After cleaning it out the MDS 800 still worked fine. Dave Joe R. wrote: > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found > a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a > HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in > handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, > connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > electronics gear. > > Joe > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed May 26 16:18:25 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: copy of SCSI 1 spec? (XT39.2) References: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40B509A1.647A76AD@msm.umr.edu> try a seagate st01 controller. they are supported by linux drivers you can rob for information on driving them. I suspect you'd have problems with the select sequence if using a printer port. there are some things that are best done in hardware even with the oldest scsi. I think that the ST01 is dumb enough you can do anything you want implementing the initiator state machine and have complete control to handle what are now considered bugs by newer chips like adaptec chips, etc that fully implement a lot of things for you, such as message byte reading, and phase decodes. Jim Jules Richardson wrote: > Hiya, > > has anyone got a early copy of the SCSI spec which just covers SCSI 1 > (i.e. 8bit bus, 5Mb/s transfers only)? > > I want to see if I can get the parallel port on a modern PC hooked up to > one of the old SCSI/ST506 bridge boards that I have, but given that I > only have 12 data out lines to play with and 5 data in (13 in if I > assume a bidirectional port) things are pretty tight and I obviously > need to do some loading of stuff into external registers. > > I've got some reasonable info on the SCSI protocol, but having a better > idea of which signals do what (and at what time) would be useful. > > All the docs out on the web seem to be for the latest SCSI revision > though (and therefore contain a lot of info that I don't need). > Furthermore I only really need the low-level protocol now; > software-driven higher level command structure can wait for a few days! > > cheers > > Jules From owad at applefritter.com Wed May 26 16:21:22 2004 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: Outbound laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040526212122.7195@mail.earthlink.net> On Tuesday, May 25, 2004, Vintage Computer Festival, wrote: >You'll have to pay some decent money for it, but if you've been looking >for an Outbound for a while, here's an opportunity: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5701457714 > >The Outbound is an interesting laptop. Produced in the late 1980's (or >early 1990s?) it was an answer to Apple's lack of a decent laptop. You >had to pull the ROMs from your SE in order to use it though, as they >shipped without ROMs to avoid getting sued by Apple. To clarify a subtle point, that's the Outbound "Notebook". The Outbound "Laptop" is an earlier model that looks like this: The Laptop was pretty neat in that it had a detachable infra-red keyboard. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed May 26 16:24:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <015e01c44363$9d1a8240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040526161033.03482a40@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi John, My 11/05 has a power switch on the front panel. The 11/10 is just a full height version of the 11/05 AFAIK. Is there not a key switch on the front panel? In any event, the 11/05 uses an H750 as well, so this schematic should help you out: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1105S_Schem.pdf I know that I found an 11/10 schematic in one of the usual places too, but I cannot find it at the moment. --tom At 04:54 PM 5/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I have a PDP-11 here that I'd ike to power on but there's >no power switch that I can locate. > >The power supply is a H750 and the A/C entry panel is a BC05t >with two separate lower power three pin connectors on it. >I pinned them both out as: > +33V, external red wire > 0V, external white wire > gnd,external green wire >They're the same shape&size connectors as the four >pin 5v/12v ones used everywhere today. > >Figured that two of these wires could go to an "on" switch but thought >it would be better to ask than to just go around shorting things to see >what happened. > >Thanks for any help, >John A. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 26 16:21:07 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <40B4FF2B.5070401@sbcglobal.net> References: <40B4FF2B.5070401@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200405262145.RAA17775@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Actually, he only brought it up because someone asked why he didn't > use the VCM, and he gave a short reply stating the he didn't agree > with the T&Cs. Then someone asked if he could elaborate on his > opinions, which he did. I went back and checked, and it _is_ at least partly my fault; this summary is slightly more favourable to me than the facts support. This spun off from my parenthetical note (not in response to a direct question to me) > I don't do VCM (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for > reasons starting with but by no means limited to requiring me to > agree to foreign legal jurisdiction), and [...] While I still don't think this was really _out of line_, it was not the best way I could have handled it - in particular, I did not need to name any of the reasons on the spot, and next time it comes up I intend to avoid doing so (and will try to avoid its blowing up the way it did this time, too, even if someone does ask specifically). The main reason I'm writing another note in this thread is > Now could we all just back our tempers down a bit, This leads me to suspect that readers of this little flap may have gained an incorrect idea of my opinion of the VCM. I think it has problems, yes - but except for one that I think I saw Patrick agree with and say they'd fix, they are all peculiar to me in one way or another; and besides, what doesn't have problems? To be absolutely clear, I think the VCM is a very good thing, I'm glad it exists _even though_ I refuse to use it myself. I have great respect and admiration for Sellam. I bear him no ill will, over this or anything else. (I mention Sellam but not Patrick not because I think badly of Patrick but rather simply because I've interacted a good deal more with Sellam; I have insufficient experience of Patrick to have formed an opinion of him - that he's the other person behind the VCM does speak well of him, though.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spectre at floodgap.com Wed May 26 17:00:56 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from der Mouse at "May 26, 4 02:24:01 pm" Message-ID: <200405262200.PAA11478@floodgap.com> > Now now. There are lots of good and honest lawyers and MBAs. Ninety-nine percent of all lawyers give the rest a bad name. I think the only lawyer I liked actually worked as a pastor and administrator for the Salvation Army. He was immensely valuable to them as a controller, but furthermore, he was also a darn good lawyer and his principles were naturally beyond question. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The optimum committee has no members. -- Norman Augustine ------------------ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed May 26 16:48:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: copy of SCSI 1 spec? (XT39.2) In-Reply-To: <40B509A1.647A76AD@msm.umr.edu> References: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> <40B509A1.647A76AD@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <1085608084.12717.131.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 21:18, jim wrote: > try a seagate st01 controller. they are supported by linux drivers > you can rob for information on driving them. Unfortunately a) I'd quite like the ease of moving this between a few machines and b) I have one application in mind that would require the target device (I'm not planning on having more than the one device + host controller on the bus at once) to be able to be switched off with the machine to which it is connected remaining on. I couldn't be certain I could get away with that when using a dedicated SCSI controller, but with a parallel port solution it's less of an issue. > I suspect you'd have problems with the select sequence if using > a printer port. there are some things that are best done in hardware > even with the oldest scsi. I'm not sure if I'm going to hit timeout problems if things aren't fast enough. So far in the documentation I have here there's only mention of needing certain signals asserted for a minimum period of time - no mention if there's an upper limit. (The manual for the Omti bridge board I have here is actually pretty good and gives a nice overview of SCSI with timing diagrams etc. - I suppose it was pitched at people building systems where there wasn't necessarily an existing SCSI host controller available) Of course most 8bit machines in the 80's with SCSI controllers did everything in software and the hardware was just a few buffers and the like. I don't know the theoretical transfer rate of a modern PC parallel port, but it can't be that much worse than the data bus speed on an 8 bit micro using a software-driven SCSI controller which would have to be servicing the display etc. at the same time. In other words, I'm hopeful I can get something going :) Raw transfer speed isn't an issue, so using the response-per-byte method of data transfer (giving me around 1Mb/s transfer if I'm lucky I think) should be fine. > I think that the ST01 is dumb enough you can do anything you want > implementing the initiator state machine and have complete control to > handle what are now considered bugs by newer chips like adaptec > chips, etc that fully implement a lot of things for you, such as message > byte reading, and phase decodes. That's useful to know if I do go for a 'smart' controller approach - one of the problems I'm finding with some of these older device boards is that they were made when the SCSI spec was a little vague, so they don't support things now taken for granted like the inquiry command. Unfortunately all the modern SCSI boards I have are Adaptec and use the same chipset - Linux Adaptec drivers expect inquiry to work and mark the device offline at boot if it doesn't, but because I'd have active modern OS disks on the same system sharing the same driver I don't want to go hacking the driver to death. I really need two SCSI controllers in the system from different manufacturers, then I could use one to host the modern OS disk and the other to use for messing around with drivers and the like against. cheers, Jules From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed May 26 15:41:08 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040526224108.345aaa40.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:08:55 -0400 "Joe R." wrote: > But I got to wondering what is the strangest thing that anyone has > ever found inside a computer or similar piece of electronics gear. Spiders and I saw a computer (well, a PeeCee) that was used by a mouse or similar rodent as a toilet... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 26 17:06:03 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: building an RS-485<->RS422 converter Message-ID: <20040526220603.GB9082@bos7.spole.gov> I have a need to build a serial converter down here. ISTR RS-422 drivers are something like 26L32s, which we have. What I'm not sure of is what to use for the RS485 end. Any suggestions? Obviously, I'll have to use what's here since we won't see any planes for five more months. Thanks for any pointers. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-May-2004 22:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -79.9 F (-62.2 C) Windchill -113.7 F (-81 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8 kts Grid 044 Barometer 680.7 mb (10599. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tponsford at theriver.com Wed May 26 06:42:28 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B482A4.30205@theriver.com> Joe R. wrote: > But I got to wondering what is the strangest > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > electronics gear. Western Diamondback rattlesnake!!!! A live one at that. It was in a computer case I left outside for a while, when I went to move it, I heard something inside. I would say the snake was more surprised than me, luckily the rattler was more interested in putting distance between me as I was between it. I have been a lot more careful in handling and storing things that have been left outside the house, either in the shed, or under the carport/tarp. (I have computer stuff "stashed" all over the place.) Next to the black widow spiders, vinegaroons and the scorpions, storing computers in the Sonoran desert can be quite an adventure. Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed May 26 14:09:06 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a co In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526230928.CMAY26030.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Found big pile of melted wax of different shades dripped from above INSIDE a old RCA TV, there's no way to drip from above because of no vents or clogged vents with wax. Not merely loose, just dripped right on the bottom chassis had to pry wax piles off. Was from prison. I wonder. (1) Most RCA TVs even 20" has plenty of flat spaces besides the chassis. Cheers, Wizard 1. working for a TV shop that how I come across this oddest thing. From dundas at caltech.edu Wed May 26 18:31:30 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> References: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I have a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. Any images already archived? Any volunteers to host a collection? John From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed May 26 18:33:12 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B52938.7080106@mdrconsult.com> Joe R. wrote: > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found > a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a > HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in > handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, > connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > electronics gear. An August 1971 Playboy magazine, rolled up behind the front cover of a residential breaker box. The insects had been at it, but it was pretty tightly rolled and only the outer edges and the last 8-10 pages were damaged. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:19:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:50 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <015e01c44363$9d1a8240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at May 26, 4 04:54:17 pm Message-ID: > > I have a PDP-11 here that I'd ike to power on but there's What model? > no power switch that I can locate. > > The power supply is a H750 and the A/C entry panel is a BC05t > with two separate lower power three pin connectors on it. > I pinned them both out as: > +33V, external red wire > 0V, external white wire > gnd,external green wire This sounds like the DEC power control bus. Don't assume the colour code is 'normal' -- in particular, don't assume that green is chassis ground. The 3 pins are common (0V), on/, and off/, Connecting on/ to common will energise a contactor in the power control unit and apply mains to the units in the rack. Disconnecting it will turn it off again (there is no latching). Connecting off/ to common will turn the system off, even if on/ is also connected to common (i.e. off/ has priority). Conventioally, the power switch (maybe a key-lock switch on the CPU panel) connects on/ to common. Thermal switches, to detect overheating, connect off/ to common. > They're the same shape&size connectors as the four > pin 5v/12v ones used everywhere today. > > Figured that two of these wires could go to an "on" switch but thought > it would be better to ask than to just go around shorting things to see > what happened. You will do no harm by shorting these wires together in any combination. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 17:54:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405260033.29137.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at May 26, 4 00:33:28 am Message-ID: ['hacker'] > It means both! Two separate concepts covered by one word. I personally The problem is that one of the meanings has criminal, or at least very undesirable, overtones. If I say 'Oh, I was hacking last night' then people probably assume I was doing something illegal, rather than (say) figuring out how to read HP calculator disks on a PC, or writing a device driver for some homebrew hardware, or something else (a) legal and (b) interesting. > use the term to refer to both. I don't understand why people get so > bent out of shape over this, it's not like it's the only English word > that has multiple definitions depending on context. YEs, but here it causes confusion, of a very undesirable sort! > Sorry for those of you annoyed by this kind of banter, it just annoys the > hell out of me when people get into/start this flamewar. And I get _very_ annoyed by people who insist on misusing a term that I would feel honoured to be called (in the original sense). Perhaps you'd like to come up with some alternative term for 'hacker' in the original sense (a single, easy-to-remmeber word) and get it accepted everywhere. Then I _might_ be prepared to give up the original meaning of 'hacker'. Alternatively, just call criminals what they are! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:24:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <01be01c44365$07e013a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at May 26, 4 05:04:26 pm Message-ID: > > > What model of PDP-11 is this? > > 11/10 which I've read is very similar to an 11/05. It is. The only difference is the name on the panel and what originally came as part of the package (IIRC the 11/10 was intended for end-users, the 11/05 for OEMs). There is no practical differnce between them The power switch on the 11/10 is a yale-type wafer tumber lock on the CPU front panel. On the 5.25" box, there are 2 microswitches for the power switching function (and one for the panel-lock function to disable the toggle switches). One directly switches mains to the CPU power supply. The other connects the appropriate pair of pins together on the little 3 pin sockets on the back of the CPU box. You link one of those to the similar connector on the power controller relay box with a straight-through cable. I assume the 10.5" box has a relay unit under the transformer, like on an 11/34. Tere are still some 3-pin connectors on the back that you link to the power controller. Oh, check all the circuit breakers are on. It's easy to knock on to the 'off' postiion. -tony From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 18:42:10 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll put up a site to host these if you want. Once I get my 11/34 and get some time, I'll see what's on the ROMs on my 3 boards. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John A. Dundas III Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:32 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I have a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. Any images already archived? Any volunteers to host a collection? John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:01:29 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 26, 4 07:40:46 am Message-ID: > > This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would suggest > > Tony, you're not going to use it anyway, so enough with the theatrics > already. You can't possibly know that! (although I admit it's likely to have been true) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:27:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: building an RS-485<->RS422 converter In-Reply-To: <20040526220603.GB9082@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 26, 4 10:06:03 pm Message-ID: > > > I have a need to build a serial converter down here. ISTR RS-422 drivers > are something like 26L32s, which we have. What I'm not sure of is what 26LS31 drivers, 26LS32 receivers IIRC. > to use for the RS485 end. Any suggestions? Obviously, I'll have to use I seem, to rememebr using the TI SN75176 chip for this. I assume you're using multiple drivers on the RS485 bus, so you'll need to find some way of controlling the enable pins of the 75176. > what's here since we won't see any planes for five more months. Well, if I knew what you had... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:06:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at May 26, 4 09:17:48 pm Message-ID: > > Weird that for such an important wiring/setting, this wasn't mentioned at all in the manual.. > > Well I guess that's what a community is for.. :-) > There were good reasons for them doing it this way. Also, this info Yes, you could also link in the 20mA loop receiver (if the board had one), or use an external whatever-TTL converter (IIRC, the TTL-level UART output is also on the Berg connector to use with an external level converter). > WAS in the DL11-W manual, but you had to look carefully to notice it. I remember figuring it out from the printset... > > Happy hacking! Is that 'hacking' or 'cracking' :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:09:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <1085600522.12717.108.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at May 26, 4 07:42:03 pm Message-ID: > I have a few of the things (and a whole pile of 68A09 CPUs which also > seem very hard to find data for). I assume you realise that's just the 1.5MHz version of the 6809, so for most things a 6809 data sheet is all you need (surely one of the CoCo sites has that, or a pointer to it???) I certainly have the 6809 data sheet on paper, whether I have the 6803 one is another matter. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:10:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a In-Reply-To: <20040526194159.57411.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> from "SHAUN RIPLEY" at May 26, 4 12:41:58 pm Message-ID: > A ring in a dot matrix printer. Well, it is the cheap > $1 type. Is there ay other type of dot-matrix printer [1] :-) (sorry, couldn't resist!) [1] OK, bonus points for those who realise that laser printers and inkjet printers are actually dot-matrix units. -tony From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 26 18:37:45 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs References: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com><007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000901c4437a$72da0b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> sure I'll host it. I'll just put it under www.classiccmp.org/M9312 Someone just give me the files! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Dundas III" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs > I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 > bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I have > a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I > don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. > > Any images already archived? > > Any volunteers to host a collection? > > John > > From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed May 26 18:43:13 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040526184018.00acd8e8@mail.earthlink.net> At 03:08 PM 5/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found >a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a >HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in >handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, >connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest >thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >electronics gear. > > Joe Well, the most _depressing_ strange thing I have found in a computer recently is a PC-compatible motherboard. No, just kidding there. I have a very mouse-ridden garage and recently pulled in a case from the garage to use for something. I found a whole lot of mouse droppings inside it. Mice in computers is a very bad thing. I've known the mouse urine and damage to total out a whole office full of computers. Thankfully all I have out in the garage are pc clones and junk like that. With six cats in the house, it isn't likely any of my 'good' stuff is going to turn into a hotel for rodents. >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 5/16/2004 -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 5/16/2004 From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Wed May 26 18:46:42 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00b201c4437b$b28c3cf0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > [snip] > Perhaps you'd like to come up with some alternative term for > 'hacker' in > [snip] > -tony I remember a very knowledgeable acquaintance of many years ago whose business card read "Software Craftsperson". I much prefer that to "hacker" and it's been something I've always aspired to, because in any non-computing context, craftsmanship is usually better than hacking (say, in woodworking for example). --Patrick :-) From aek at spies.com Wed May 26 18:52:02 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs Message-ID: <200405262352.i4QNq2QF002299@spies.com> > Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. They are small bipolar roms From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed May 26 18:55:16 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040526184018.00acd8e8@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200405261949625.SM01032@bobdev> > With six cats in the house, it isn't likely any of my 'good' stuff is going to turn into a hotel for rodents. Just watch out of that cat hair... My mother-in-law has cats and it is AMAZING how much cat hair collects inside her computers. Just awful. From kth at srv.net Wed May 26 19:11:32 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B53234.3050806@srv.net> Joe R. wrote: > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found >a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a >HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in >handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, >connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest >thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >electronics gear. > > Joe > > > How about getting this machine... http://geekpress.com/stories/voters2.html From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:00:55 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <00b201c4437b$b28c3cf0$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040526185636.00ad9a10@mail.earthlink.net> At 04:46 PM 5/26/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > [snip] > > Perhaps you'd like to come up with some alternative term for > > 'hacker' in > > [snip] > > -tony > >I remember a very knowledgeable acquaintance of many years ago whose >business card read "Software Craftsperson". I much prefer that to "hacker" >and it's been something I've always aspired to, because in any non-computing >context, craftsmanship is usually better than hacking (say, in woodworking >for example). --Patrick :-) Even in computing contexts, many people would say that methodical and consistent development work, i.e. the kind of thing someone familiar with Knuth and who is a trained software engineer, is better than something 'hacked together' by one guy at 4 in the morning. This is a very debatable topic, of course. But the myth of the 'greatest software' coming out of hacking sessions is generally rather dubious. Said 'greatest software' (i.e the much lauded Open Source/Free Software) usually comes out of _many_ so-called hacking sessions, with a huge amount of social interaction glueing the development together. >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 5/16/2004 -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 5/16/2004 From aek at spies.com Wed May 26 19:01:12 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs Message-ID: <200405270001.i4R01CfH004479@spies.com> here's a fairly complete list of part numbers. bob supnik was looking for the XE etherboot prom a while back if one should turn up -- RL01, RL02 (DL) 23-751A9 RK06, RK07 (DM) 23-752A9 RX01 floppy disk, single density (DX) 23-753A9 RP02/RP03 (DP), Massbus RP04, RP05, RP06, RM02, RM03 (DB) 23-755A9 RK03, RK05 DECdisk (DK), TU55, TU56 DECtape (DT) 23-756A9 TU45, TU77, TE16 Massbus tape (MM) 23-757A9 TS03, TU10, TE10 tape (MT) 23-758A9 RS03, RS04 (DS) 23-759A9 ASR33 (TT), PC05 (PP) 23-760A9 TU60 DECcassette (CT) 23-761A9 RS11, RS64 23-762A9 CR11 card reader 23-763A9 TS04, TS11, TU80 tape (MS) 23-764A9 TU58 DECtape II (DD) 23-765A9 MSCP disk, including UDA50, RAxx (DU) 23-767A9 RX02 floppy disk, double density (DY) 23-811A9 DECnet DDCMP DMC11, DMR11 (XM) 23-862A9 23-863A9 23-864A9 DECnet DDCMP DUP11 (XW) 23-865A9 23-866A9 23-867A9 DECnet DDCMP DU11 (XU) 23-868A9 23-869A9 23-870A9 DECnet DDCMP DL11-E (XL) 23-926A9 23-927A9 23-928A9 DECnet Ethernet DEUNA (XE) 23-E22A9 TMSCP tape including TK50, TU81 (MU) 23-E39A9 proms are: 82S131, Am27S13, 63S241, 74S571 512x4 three-state From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed May 26 19:14:49 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a com puter? Message-ID: Not in a computer but .. A used condom inside the back of monitor receiver in an outside broadcast radio van. To get inside this receiver you had to unscrew it from the wall then unscrew the back cover, not the sort of "Quick! Hide it in here!" job you would expect. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed May 26 19:21:28 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B53488.6090307@gifford.co.uk> A few years ago, I was helping friends re-wire their house. We opened up the main fuse-box and found a dead mouse, with one paw on the live terminal, and another on the neutral. I think the cause of death is pretty clear... -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed May 26 19:23:51 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <1085600522.12717.108.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1085600522.12717.108.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40B53517.7060705@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > I have a few of the things (and a whole pile of 68A09 CPUs which also > seem very hard to find data for). The 6809 data sheet should tell you about the 68A09 and 68B09, too. As for software, there's always "Programming The 6809" by Rodnay Zaks and William Labiak. Or "6809 Assembly Language Programming" by Lance Leventhal. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Wed May 26 19:30:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: VCM (was Re: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > This comment means I will _NEVER_ make use of the VCM! I would suggest > > > > Tony, you're not going to use it anyway, so enough with the theatrics > > already. > > You can't possibly know that! (although I admit it's likely to have been > true) Well, it is Lynx compatible, if you ever change your mind. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed May 26 19:30:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/04 DL11 Console Emulator woes.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Happy hacking! > > Is that 'hacking' or 'cracking' :-) Um... no, I wont bite the bait. ;) --f From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 26 19:48:06 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: Fred Cisin "Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer?" (May 26, 13:07) References: <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 26, 13:07, Fred Cisin wrote: > We had an elderly applicant for a teaching position who tried to use one > of the machines in the lab. When he couldn't find the CD drive, he put > a CD into the 5.25" floppy drive. The college administration morons > actually hired him for one semester! (I mention that he was elderly only > to discount the possibility that he was too young to be familiar with > 5.25") At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the CD-ROM and the floppy. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 26 19:43:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: Fred Cisin "Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer?" (May 26, 12:28) References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040526122040.B86151@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <10405270143.ZM25125@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 26, 12:28, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > > electronics gear. > > folding money in a disused floppy drive? - gives added meaning to > "best price", or "how much would you pay me to take it away?" A penny (a large British one) inside a Commodore PET; it was the cause of the shorted PSU and blown fuse. I've often found extra screws rattling around inside things. Paper clips are pretty common, as are biscuit crumbs and bits of crisp ("potato chips", you colonists call them, I believe). The worst was the dust in an 11/23 I was once called out to fix. It wouldn't boot (which turned out to be because it was overheating). When I slid the cover off the BA11-N, it looked like a large grey brick. I explained to the owners that having it on the floor under the reception desk was perhaps not the best place for this hotel's call logger and billing system. But the strangest must be the 1?" No.8 woodscrew inside an RK05 pack. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed May 26 19:52:36 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <40B53BD4.60500@mdrconsult.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 26, 13:07, Fred Cisin wrote: > At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few > of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and > found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" > the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the > CD-ROM and the floppy. I've seen that in 6 or 7 different machines, all from day-care and kindergarten facilities. Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 26 20:09:57 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs" (May 26, 21:19) References: Message-ID: <10405270209.ZM25154@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 26, 21:19, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > > So I'll need boot ROMs which supports RA and DU disks. Because my 11/04 used to be an embedded CNC drill controller, in the place of the regular CPU diagnostic is has a weird proprietary program which tries to initialize some long-gone/dead equipment which used to be connected to the PDP. > > > > In summary, I'm willing to pay a fair/reasonable price for the following M9312 ROMs (unless some one has spares, then I wouldn't mind them free of course :-)): > ... > > Although I assume we can all check our systems and boards and come > up with all of these, wouldnt it be much nicer (and cheaper) if you > just get the ROM contents as binary files, which you then plug into > an eprom? Unfortunately they're small bipolar fusible-link PROMs which are hard to get and almost as hard to find a programmer for (unless you're me or Tony). The A9 types are 82S131 (or MMI6306, 75S171, 27S13, 93448, etc) 16-pin DIL 512-words by 4-bit wide, and the F1 types are 82S137 (or TI24S41, MMI6353, 74S573, 27SS33, 93453, etc) 18-pin DIL 1024 words x 4-bit wide. The idea of storing the images is a good one, however. As far as I know you can't get these from DEC/Compaq/HP any more, so I'll host them if anyone has images to add to the collection. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed May 26 20:15:53 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040526185636.00ad9a10@mail.earthlink.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040526185636.00ad9a10@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200405270130.VAA18908@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I remember a very knowledgeable acquaintance of many years ago whose >> business card read "Software Craftsperson". > Even in computing contexts, many people would say that methodical and > consistent development work, i.e. the kind of thing someone familiar > with Knuth and who is a trained software engineer, is better than > something 'hacked together' by one guy at 4 in the morning. The former is more likely to be good. The latter is more likely to be brilliant. (Of course, in a world in far greater need of a lot of good software than a few pieces of brilliant software....) Also, the best hackers tend to also be good software engineers, though it can take a decade or so if they have to learn things the hard way. > This is a very debatable topic, of course. But the myth of the > 'greatest software' coming out of hacking sessions is generally > rather dubious. Well, there's some truth lurking in it; the greatest software usually grows from a small seed, and that small seed is often the result of a week of all-nighters or some such, and almost invariably the product of a single mind. Of course, that small seed is usually very much a hack job, the sort of thing TNHD describes in the "Berkeley Quality Software" entry. (That's the distinction between good and brilliant that I drew above.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 20:51:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <000901c4437a$72da0b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526215127.00890e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Doesn't the M9312 use Bipolar PROMs? (they are .3" wide 16 pin devices) Does anyone know the part numbers of the blank ones or have a source for them or a programmer that can program them? Just in case you're not familar with what these look like here's a picture of one. . Can the same ROM code be used in a M8578 or other ROM card? It uses .6" wide 28 pin ROMs. Joe At 06:37 PM 5/26/04 -0500, you wrote: >sure I'll host it. I'll just put it under www.classiccmp.org/M9312 > >Someone just give me the files! > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John A. Dundas III" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:31 PM >Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs > > >> I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 >> bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I have >> a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I >> don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. >> >> Any images already archived? >> >> Any volunteers to host a collection? >> >> John >> >> > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 21:15:52 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526215127.00890e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I have the numbers on the blank ones, but I'll have to look at some on the boards to find out. One of my boards has PROMs on it that don't have the DEC numbers. When I acquired these boards, I noticed that some of the ROMs were not numbered with DEC numbers and I looked them up on Google and found several electronics places that said they sold them. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:51 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs Doesn't the M9312 use Bipolar PROMs? (they are .3" wide 16 pin devices) Does anyone know the part numbers of the blank ones or have a source for them or a programmer that can program them? Just in case you're not familar with what these look like here's a picture of one. . Can the same ROM code be used in a M8578 or other ROM card? It uses .6" wide 28 pin ROMs. Joe At 06:37 PM 5/26/04 -0500, you wrote: >sure I'll host it. I'll just put it under www.classiccmp.org/M9312 > >Someone just give me the files! > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John A. Dundas III" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:31 PM >Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs > > >> I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 >> bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I have >> a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I >> don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. >> >> Any images already archived? >> >> Any volunteers to host a collection? >> >> John >> >> > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 21:21:49 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope Message-ID: I recently acquired two VT52 DECScopes and I am ready to begin the troubleshooting process. I've never attempted to troubleshoot a CRT device before, and I don't want to get blasted across the room if I do something wrong. Has anyone here worked on these types of terminals before? I'm finding conflicting info on the proper method of discharging the CRT anode. I have turned both of them on. One lights up with random patterns, no cursor, and a clicking sound. The VT52 maintenance manual indicates that this is likely a problem with the anode clip or anode cap. I'd like to move on to the next step after I make sure that both the clip and cap are secure. Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How long do these things on a charge? Ashley From billdeg at degnanco.com Wed May 26 21:21:09 2004 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Commodore P500 (European vs. American) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040526221629.02f36908@mail.degnanco.net> Please .cc billdeg@degnanco.com (thanks) I have a european Commodore p500 (240/50/PAL). What would be involved if I wanted to try the unit out in American power/monitor environment? Is it a matter of swapping chips? I found only spotty info on the internet. I don't want to take chances. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 20:57:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <200405270001.i4R01CfH004479@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526215738.0096c420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dammit Al! You're always one step ahead of the rest of us! Joe At 05:01 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: > >here's a fairly complete list of part numbers. >bob supnik was looking for the XE etherboot prom a while back >if one should turn up > >-- > >RL01, RL02 (DL) 23-751A9 >RK06, RK07 (DM) 23-752A9 >RX01 floppy disk, single density (DX) 23-753A9 >RP02/RP03 (DP), Massbus RP04, RP05, RP06, RM02, RM03 (DB) 23-755A9 >RK03, RK05 DECdisk (DK), TU55, TU56 DECtape (DT) 23-756A9 >TU45, TU77, TE16 Massbus tape (MM) 23-757A9 >TS03, TU10, TE10 tape (MT) 23-758A9 >RS03, RS04 (DS) 23-759A9 >ASR33 (TT), PC05 (PP) 23-760A9 >TU60 DECcassette (CT) 23-761A9 >RS11, RS64 23-762A9 >CR11 card reader 23-763A9 >TS04, TS11, TU80 tape (MS) 23-764A9 >TU58 DECtape II (DD) 23-765A9 >MSCP disk, including UDA50, RAxx (DU) 23-767A9 >RX02 floppy disk, double density (DY) 23-811A9 >DECnet DDCMP DMC11, DMR11 (XM) 23-862A9 > 23-863A9 > 23-864A9 >DECnet DDCMP DUP11 (XW) 23-865A9 > 23-866A9 > 23-867A9 >DECnet DDCMP DU11 (XU) 23-868A9 > 23-869A9 > 23-870A9 >DECnet DDCMP DL11-E (XL) 23-926A9 > 23-927A9 > 23-928A9 >DECnet Ethernet DEUNA (XE) 23-E22A9 >TMSCP tape including TK50, TU81 (MU) 23-E39A9 > > >proms are: 82S131, Am27S13, 63S241, 74S571 512x4 three-state > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:07:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <40B53488.6090307@gifford.co.uk> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526220709.0088f250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:21 AM 5/27/04 +0100, you wrote: > >A few years ago, I was helping friends re-wire their house. We opened >up the main fuse-box and found a dead mouse, with one paw on the live >terminal, and another on the neutral. I think the cause of death is >pretty clear... > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > In Florida we have FREQUENT problems with outdoor electrical outlets. We usually find a line of dead ants or a toasty lizard between the power lines inside the box. I've even seen ants tunnel into underground cables and short them out in the middle of a run. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Wed May 26 21:35:31 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions > on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How > long do these things on a charge? Before starting: power OFF and power cord DISCONNECTED and in your sight - be sure that the terminal is NOT energized. First, identify a metal part of the inside electronics that is definitely at 'ground' potential, ie. connected somehow to the 'ground' blade of the 3-prong wall plug. This could be the metal chassis support, other metal support structures, or the metal case of the power supply if it's a seperate unit. The ide is to have your wire hooked directly to the 'ground' ('earth') side of the terminal. If it's inadvertantly connected to something that is not ground, when you discharge the CRT residual potential, you'll zap whatever is connected... Use a smallish, thin screwdriver, having a 5" to 7" blade with a beefy insulated (repeat insulated, as in plastic and/or rubber) handle. Using an "alligator clip lead" of sufficient length, or a piece of thin, insulated wire - attach one end of the wire to the grounded part of the chassis that you identified, and attach the other end to the blade of the screwdriver up near the (insulated!) handle. Find the "anode" cap where it clips into the side of the CRT - this will have a thickish insulated wire going down to the high-voltage supply of the terminal. Sometimes this will have a rubber cap over it, sometimes it will just be a metal, paperclip-looking thing snapped into a small well on the wall of the CRT. Being very sure the grounding wire is attached to Ground, work the tip of the screwdriver blade up under the rubber cap (or into the anode connection well) until the blade tip contacts the metal part of the HV lead. Count to "3" and remove the screwdriver, then, if you need to remove the CRT for any reason, pull the wire off the side of the CRT - this may take a bit of force, or 'working' the clip back and forth until it releases from the CRT. You can proceed from there in relative safety. A well designed CRT circuit can retain a charge for a long time, days and weekes sometimes, especially if the outside of the CRT is clean and the HV supply is well isolated. Unconnected CRTs can actually acquire a hefty charge from particle bombardment and atmospheric charges - especially if you're in a dry climate. I've been popped by this phenomena myself. Cheers John > > Ashley > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:11:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer?"@tampabay.rr.com> <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526221117.008db3c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:48 AM 5/27/04 +0100, Pete wrote: >On May 26, 13:07, Fred Cisin wrote: >> We had an elderly applicant for a teaching position who tried to use >one >> of the machines in the lab. When he couldn't find the CD drive, he >put >> a CD into the 5.25" floppy drive. The college administration morons >> actually hired him for one semester! (I mention that he was elderly >only >> to discount the possibility that he was too young to be familiar with >> 5.25") > >At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few >of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and >found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" >the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the >CD-ROM and the floppy. > LOL! You wouldn't believe how many Fisher-Price people (~2" tall plastic or wood toy figures) that I pulled out of my VCRs when my kids were little. The dammed tape slots were just the right size to admit them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:17:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <10405270209.ZM25154@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Fred N. van Kempen" <"Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs"@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526221739.007d4870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:09 AM 5/27/04 +0100, you wrote: >On May 26, 21:19, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> On Wed, 26 May 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > >> > So I'll need boot ROMs which supports RA and DU disks. Because my >11/04 used to be an embedded CNC drill controller, in the place of the >regular CPU diagnostic is has a weird proprietary program which tries >to initialize some long-gone/dead equipment which used to be connected >to the PDP. >> > >> > In summary, I'm willing to pay a fair/reasonable price for the >following M9312 ROMs (unless some one has spares, then I wouldn't mind >them free of course :-)): >> ... >> >> Although I assume we can all check our systems and boards and come >> up with all of these, wouldnt it be much nicer (and cheaper) if you >> just get the ROM contents as binary files, which you then plug into >> an eprom? > >Unfortunately they're small bipolar fusible-link PROMs which are hard >to get and almost as hard to find a programmer for (unless you're me or >Tony). Or me. I have an old Pro_log programmer that will program them too. I just need to be sure that I have the proper adapter to work with the specific brand of blank PROM. (Every brand part is programmed differently). In fact, I think I have a Stag programmer that will also program them. I also have a stack of M9312s :-) It would be a dammed sight easier to use PROM boards that use EPROMs. But I don't know if they're fast enough. Joe The A9 types are 82S131 (or MMI6306, 75S171, 27S13, 93448, etc) >16-pin DIL 512-words by 4-bit wide, and the F1 types are 82S137 (or >TI24S41, MMI6353, 74S573, 27SS33, 93453, etc) 18-pin DIL 1024 words x >4-bit wide. > >The idea of storing the images is a good one, however. As far as I >know you can't get these from DEC/Compaq/HP any more, so I'll host them >if anyone has images to add to the collection. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:20:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: <20040526203346.33747.qmail@web51801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526160225.008e5750@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526222018.0096fa70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:33 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >I have several MC6803P. I have a whole bag full (but mine are EF6803P). I found a bunch of cards that had socketed ones the last time I went scrounging. I got the ICs and the scrapper got the empty cards :-) Joe They are 40 pin DIP type. >Google says they are compatible with one kind of 6502 >or 6800 support chip. > >vax, 3900 > > >--- "Joe R." wrote: >> At 12:38 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >Is it compatible with MC6803? >> >> I don't know. That's one reason why I'm looking >> for one. >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> >vax, 3900 >> > >> >--- "Joe R." wrote: >> >> Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for >> >> this? I didn't find >> >> ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. >> >> >> >> Joe >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >__________________________________ >> >Do you Yahoo!? >> >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >> >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ >> > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:30:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <200405262041.NAA20487@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526223007.00890330@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:41 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >>From: "Joe R." >> >>At 12:45 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >>>Howzbout: >>>the ivy growing up through the recent Castro Valley PDP-11/40 rescue? >> >> Naw. That's common here in Florida. I looked at the pictures and it >>didn't look like they'd been sitting out more than a couple of months by >>Florida standards. I ROUTINELY find birds nest, wasp nests, plants, animal >>dens and other forms of wildlife in anything that's left outside around here. >> > >Hi Joe > Although not a computer, it was in Florida. When I was there, >one of my lady friends talked me into working on he old Mercedes. >We when out to start looking it over. On opening the driver door, >there was a large black widow spider. A few moments later we'd >gotten her into a soda cup from a fast food. > I next started to move some of the stuff around so I could get >in and do some more looking over. This is when the largest >scorpion I'd ever seen ran across my lap. > Still wanting to help out, we opened the hood to see what size >battery it would require. That is when the rattle snake let >us know that we were in his territory. > At this point I told her that a dead boy friend was not to >good and that I'd only consider working on the car if she >got it fumigated. >Dwight Your own personal nature preserve! Yeap! That sounds like Florida! LOL! BTW you must have missed the wasps' nests inside the fenders. Just about every car that I've left sitting has developed nests inside the fenders just in front of the door openings. The wasps get in through the gaps at the front of the doors and try to fill those big hollows with their nests. All of places, I usually find black widow spiders in the treads of tires that haven't been moved recently. They seem to like the gaps in the treads and the black color. Joe Joe > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:40:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040526152022.00b042e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526224026.008dad40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Vince. That's exactly what I was looking for. They look quite usefull I think I'll go back and get the rest of them. Joe At 01:36 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >> Anybody know where I can find a datasheet for this? I didn't find >> ANYTHING about the 6803 on SGS-Thomson's website. > >Here is the one from JameCo, who claims to still be selling them :-). > >http://www.jameco.com/jameco/Products/ProdDS/43529.pdf > > Vince > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 26 21:49:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040526224944.008e6100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions >on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How >long do these things on a charge? A LONG time, a VERY LONG time! I once unpacked some TV picture tubes that had been stored for several years. Everyone of the tubes had enough juice to knock the hell out of me. The first one bit me, I shorted out all of the others and got a healthly spark from all of them. Don't even try to decide what might be charged, >>>>unplug the device<<<< and use a shorting rod on EVERYTHING that you can get to. Joe > >Ashley > > From wacarder at usit.net Wed May 26 21:55:56 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, thanks for the detailed info. When you say to find a metal part that is connected to the ground blade of the 3 prong plug, does this metal part need to have a wire attached and actually plugged in to the ground hole in the wall outlet? I've seen some sites online that say to ground it to the ground wire in a receptacle in my house circuit vs. a groun potential metal part of the chassis. Do you hear a click or a pop when you touch the grounded screwdriver handle to the anode HV lead? You said to count to 3, but didn't mention any crack, pop, etc. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:36 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope On Wed, 26 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions > on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How > long do these things on a charge? Before starting: power OFF and power cord DISCONNECTED and in your sight - be sure that the terminal is NOT energized. First, identify a metal part of the inside electronics that is definitely at 'ground' potential, ie. connected somehow to the 'ground' blade of the 3-prong wall plug. This could be the metal chassis support, other metal support structures, or the metal case of the power supply if it's a seperate unit. The ide is to have your wire hooked directly to the 'ground' ('earth') side of the terminal. If it's inadvertantly connected to something that is not ground, when you discharge the CRT residual potential, you'll zap whatever is connected... Use a smallish, thin screwdriver, having a 5" to 7" blade with a beefy insulated (repeat insulated, as in plastic and/or rubber) handle. Using an "alligator clip lead" of sufficient length, or a piece of thin, insulated wire - attach one end of the wire to the grounded part of the chassis that you identified, and attach the other end to the blade of the screwdriver up near the (insulated!) handle. Find the "anode" cap where it clips into the side of the CRT - this will have a thickish insulated wire going down to the high-voltage supply of the terminal. Sometimes this will have a rubber cap over it, sometimes it will just be a metal, paperclip-looking thing snapped into a small well on the wall of the CRT. Being very sure the grounding wire is attached to Ground, work the tip of the screwdriver blade up under the rubber cap (or into the anode connection well) until the blade tip contacts the metal part of the HV lead. Count to "3" and remove the screwdriver, then, if you need to remove the CRT for any reason, pull the wire off the side of the CRT - this may take a bit of force, or 'working' the clip back and forth until it releases from the CRT. You can proceed from there in relative safety. A well designed CRT circuit can retain a charge for a long time, days and weekes sometimes, especially if the outside of the CRT is clean and the HV supply is well isolated. Unconnected CRTs can actually acquire a hefty charge from particle bombardment and atmospheric charges - especially if you're in a dry climate. I've been popped by this phenomena myself. Cheers John > > Ashley > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 21:54:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526223007.00890330@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526223007.00890330@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040526195217.U99287@newshell.lmi.net> good thing that you didn't go under the car and meet the gators! > Although not a computer, it was in Florida. When I was there, > one of my lady friends talked me into working on he old Mercedes. > We when out to start looking it over. On opening the driver door, > there was a large black widow spider. A few moments later we'd > gotten her into a soda cup from a fast food. > I next started to move some of the stuff around so I could get > in and do some more looking over. This is when the largest > scorpion I'd ever seen ran across my lap. > Still wanting to help out, we opened the hood to see what size > battery it would require. That is when the rattle snake let > us know that we were in his territory. > At this point I told her that a dead boy friend was not to > good and that I'd only consider working on the car if she > got it fumigated. From charlesb at otcgaming.net Wed May 26 22:05:30 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000401c44397$794479f0$0100a8c0@thunder> dont ask me how it got in there... but I found a kiddies sock in a pc Charles 'Thunder' Blackburn Quake3 Co-Lead http://www.tsncentral.com The Leader in the E-Sports Revolution ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:08 PM Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found > a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a > HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in > handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, > connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > electronics gear. > > Joe > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed May 26 18:27:51 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040527032814.BQVA987.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions > > on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How > > long do these things on a charge? Good question! This is safer to tell and ask. > Before starting: power OFF and power cord DISCONNECTED and in your sight - > be sure that the terminal is NOT energized. This is cardial rule here at work, I always make sure I can see the plug is visible and is clearly goes to that that unit I'm working on. Also there is few capacitors still charged by the way. My discharge "tool" is basically two clip cables and sand block resistor of big wattage like 10W to 20W, 180 to 220 ohms is PERFECT for both charged caps and HV discharges. I usually discharge any caps that are marked 35V or higher by touching and holding for few seconds with pair of that clips via that sand block resistor, there is few caps that is so BIG it has heavy pins, I leave them clipped for few minutes, they leak away so long. Reason I use that resistor for HV discharge is to cut down on current (damage can happen because the internal dag coatings can be burnt off around the anode button or blow a component. The dag ground is dead easy to find. It is the bare braid cable sketched across the CRT's bell touching the dark grey dull coating (dag). I always clip to that ground strap across the back side of CRT bell via same resistor and clip that to a small worn flat head screwdriver with plastic handle. Carefully wiggle this under that HV suction cup and you're done the instant screw driver tip touches that HV prongs. You will hear few crackles or quiet snap using resistor. Without it, you get a loud scary SNAP! Keep the discharge tool away the board or wires. HV can jump anywhere where there's easier path to take. Highest HV typically seen is about 30KV in projectors, big CRT TVs (32, 36 and even 40")., somewhat less in monitors. > Use a smallish, thin screwdriver, having a 5" to 7" blade with a beefy > insulated (repeat insulated, as in plastic and/or rubber) handle. Using > an "alligator clip lead" of sufficient length, or a piece of thin, > insulated wire - attach one end of the wire to the grounded part of the > chassis that you identified, and attach the other end to the blade of the > screwdriver up near the (insulated!) handle. Finding the dag ground is MOST easiest and safe than sorry. I don't hook that ground end to the chassis ever. this is not always direct connect to the dag ground. hard to tell which is hot or cold even it is not that direct. Also another reason to be safer because components are protected only using dag ground to leak that HV. I always do this to any CRTs every time if I must get HV suction cup off. After discharge grab hold of the edge and fold back, gently push one tine of the anode clip to get it over the lip of the anode button. Clean both surfaces surrouding anode button (windex and alochol because the red "paint" comes off with actone and beyond for few inches and the suction cup (actone) then apply thin line in a circle around the button where suction cup will touch with dielectric silcone grease before clipping that HV lead back on, auto shops stocks this slimy grease in a tube of any size. I've seen HV sneak past the layer between suction cup and the CRT bell surface when a guy touched the edge of suction cup with screwdriver clipped to the dag ground. Blue arc with a some "crack!" He looked surprised and that one didn't have grease, was original dry install (typical in many CRT stuff and I don't like this way because of this HV leaks that could occur. Also HV burns through materials when it breaks through. Often looks like a faint pinhole (found by flexing and pullng) in flexible insulation. Even a tiny pinhole (like a period of a sharp pencil) in the flyback, the worst ones usually looks like someone blew out a side out and charred. Once saw a wisp of "hair" those actual super fine magnet wires for the HV winding got blown out of the flyback's casing giving it a bit of a tuft sticking out of axial crack running around the flyback's case. HV can be destructive if left loose to run amok in the chassis. :-) Snap crackle pop zzzzzzzzzzt or touch you. OW! or fling you off (secondary injury). For 2 and half years, I have YET to be bitten by HV hit but someday I may! But I have been buzzt'ed or shocked several times by the charged caps or high voltage stuff like 100Vto 300V (to me any shock is like a buzzt than a "zap") Had got on high freq 1.2KV ac (15.7KHz) kinda gives you a burning (stinky) fine trickle but still a fair "ow" rather like a brush of soldering burn. I was told HV hit is like mule kick. But I wonder what others who did get that hit felt like? Oh, I had been "shocked" by a experiment low level HV generator (felt like powerful static zap) but not that powerful at electronic class years ago. At science museum once saw a very tickish student girl walk off lexan platform by the big sphere HV generator depsite tech's warnings as she stepped off a looong 2 feet long arc hit her but she only did make short yelp without jerking or jump. Wow but I wondered why she didn't "bounce" or jerk or fling a arm or leg when HV hit her when her muscles spasmed. That 2 feet long HV arc must be really packing of power. :-O Cheers, Wizard From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed May 26 22:33:37 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:51 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <40B53BD4.60500@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <040101c4439b$65f9d440$6e7ba8c0@p933> I used to configure and upgrade first-generation PCs for a subsidiary of Magnavox. One day I pulled one out of stock and noticed a hole in the top of the box surrounded by white powder. Opening the box I saw that the hole and the powder continued through to the computer case. Removing the case from the box I saw that the hole had been produced by a large masonry nail that had been fired from a nail gun perpendicular to the preferred direction. It had pierced the top of the PC and gone entirely through the disk drive and most of the way out of the bottom of the case. The white powder was from the sheetrock wall that it had pierced prior to entering the PC box. >From the position of this PC in inventory (4-5 feet off the ground with nothing between it and the office space) it is entirely likely that it gave up its life to save one of ours. The construction folks next door were none too happy to buy the machine, but they paid list price plus a fair markup and they patched the wall. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 26 22:40:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <20040527032814.BQVA987.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20040527032814.BQVA987.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20040527034048.GA568@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 11:27:51PM +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > At science museum once saw a very tickish student girl walk off lexan > platform by the big sphere HV generator depsite tech's warnings as > she stepped off a looong 2 feet long arc hit her but she only did > make short yelp without jerking or jump. Wow but I wondered why she > didn't "bounce" or jerk or fling a arm or leg when HV hit her when > her muscles spasmed. That 2 feet long HV arc must be really packing > of power. :-O I used to play with those on a regular basis, at COSI, the Science Museum in Columbus. Ours was surplussed from Oak Ridge, to read the plate at the bottom. In winter, we could reliably get 8" hot blue sparks, or 3' wispy sparks. Discharging the ball with your forearm really makes your fingers jump. Big fun! My own Van De Graff generator is much smaller, table-top sized, and has difficulty with 2" sparks in the winter. :-( -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-May-2004 03:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -79.0 F (-61.8 C) Windchill -117 F (-82.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.4 kts Grid 032 Barometer 681.1 mb (10583. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jpl15 at panix.com Wed May 26 22:54:44 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > John, thanks for the detailed info. No prob - been working on the damn things (TVs etc) for more than 40 years now.... and I've been hit a few times with Ultor HV - like most high voltage/low current supplies - there is usually not enough power there to do much real damage, what usually happens is you get zapped, and then damage the device / hurt yourself in the ensuing reaction - it's quite startling and painful so one tends to 'jump' - once I put my butt right through the neighbor's drywall in their living room when I was in Jr. High - took all my summer money (including my labor charges to them) to have it repaired and painted... ;{} maybe *that's* why I hate TVs so much! 'Wizard' has responded also to this thread with much more detailed info - I don't think you'll have to worry about discharging the power supply caps in a VT52 - there's no 'medium' voltages until you get to the HV supply. When he refers to 'dag' he means the outside coating (a dull black matte finish) called "aquadag" that is the conductive outer layer of the CRT - the front periphery of the CRT ought to be clamped to a frame to hold it in place - you can use this frame/clamp assembly to ground your discharging screwdriver. Somtimes there will be a thick uninsulated metal braid going from this peripheral clamp to the chassis somewhere - this can be used as a conveient place to attach your discharging wire. The ground prong of the power cord (the longest, round pin of the three) is always the green, or green/yellow wire in the power cordset, and will always be attched to the main ground point in the device. You may or may not hear a snap, or see a small blue flash when you get the tip of the screwdriver close enough to the anode connection - it depends on how well the CRT in the terminal is retaining it's charge. So combine both our narratives and you should be just fine. Only please do remember: Power cord UNPLUGGED and visible to you before starting the work. Cheers John From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed May 26 20:16:27 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: building an RS-485<->RS422 converter In-Reply-To: References: <20040526220603.GB9082@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040527011627.GB16576@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 12:27:57AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > I have a need to build a serial converter down here. ISTR RS-422 drivers > > are something like 26L32s, which we have. What I'm not sure of is what > > 26LS31 drivers, 26LS32 receivers IIRC. Perfect. > > to use for the RS485 end. Any suggestions? Obviously, I'll have to use > > I seem, to rememebr using the TI SN75176 chip for this. I assume you're > using multiple drivers on the RS485 bus, so you'll need to find some way > of controlling the enable pins of the 75176. It is a point-to-point RS-485 link, in this particular installation, not multi-drop, fortunately. I presume I would just tie the enable pins to "true" The RS-485 device in question is a simple 4-wire transmit/receive pair. Thanks for the pointers, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-May-2004 01:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -78.5 F (-61.4 C) Windchill -114.7 F (-81.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.4 kts Grid 039 Barometer 681 mb (10587. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rdd at rddavis.org Wed May 26 23:18:25 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning Message-ID: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> In case anyone else on this list is using steel shelving with particle board shelves that's been in use for over ten years, and hasn't given the shelving a careful looking over, it may be a good idea to do so. When looking for shelving to stack lots of equipment on in the early 1990's, I purchased some shelving from Sears Roebuck & Co. that was rated at least one ton per shelf. The steel framing is very heavy, but at the time, I was a little wary of the pressed particleboard shelves themselves, but was told that they would hold the rated weight. For the past ten years, I've been quite pleased with the shelving, until now. While there's nothing extremely heavy on the shelves - e.g., one shelf contains a Canon laser printer (the square one with a CX engine), about 40 full-height 5-1/4" hard drives, an 8" floppy drive and a few other things, I noticed that some of the items on some of the shelves appear to be leaning slightly. It turns out that the boards are sagging a bit towards the center, so it's just a matter of time before things begin to go crash. Not sure how soon that might happen, but this sagging has occurred fairly quickly, or so it seems. No other space to store some of these things, so, I'm just hoping for the best until I can make other arrangements, but 3/4" oak planks, which I'd prefer to use for adding some support, have become quite expensive. Replacing the particleboard would be a major pain, since the entire shelving assembly would have to be disassembled. So... in case anyone hasn't checked their shelves carefully lately... Note: part of this is most likely as much my fault as the manufacturers', since there is some occasional dampness near the shelves, but, for years, there was no apparent problem, and no obvious rust, mildew, etc. on any of the equipment. Not much I can do about the dampness, except hope that repainting a basement stone wall with some new waterproofing paint will help things... thanks to BG&E, Baltimore Gas & Electric Co., for disturbing the wall, thus causing increased water leakage during heavy rains, when they pounded heavily on the wall while lining gas pipes in the area and installing a new meter a few years ago... I should have tried the aforementioned repainting a few years ago as well. Procrastination: not just a skill, a way of life! Procrastinators Anonymous web site: http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/procrastinators.html -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed May 26 23:21:07 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning Message-ID: > Procrastinators Anonymous web site: > http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/procrastinators.html I'll look later. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From vrs at msn.com Wed May 26 23:20:57 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs References: <200405270001.i4R01CfH004479@spies.com> Message-ID: > proms are: 82S131, Am27S13, 63S241, 74S571 512x4 three-state A possible supplier: http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=91&prrfnbr=1087&cgrfnbr=501&ctgys= Vince From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 26 23:41:14 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at May 27, 2004 12:18:25 AM Message-ID: <200405270441.i4R4fFKv015405@onyx.spiritone.com> > In case anyone else on this list is using steel shelving with particle > board shelves that's been in use for over ten years, and hasn't given > the shelving a careful looking over, it may be a good idea to do so. That's some good advice and you just got me to thinking... As much as I hate particle board, I bought a couple *cheap* bookcases for my one storage unit a few years ago. We're probably going to be moving in a few months, and if we do, I'll finally have a garage to setup some of my DEC HW, as well as store various items. I rather figured I'd move those bookcases out of storage and into the garage, now I'm not so sure, as storage will be much, much dryer. Zane From allain at panix.com Wed May 26 23:40:57 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: Message-ID: <010b01c443a4$ce414ca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Oh, check all the circuit breakers are on. > It's easy to knock on to the 'off' postiion. I don't see a big flipswitch circuit breaker on this old guy, nothing like the newer 11/34 that's here. There is a little 10A pushbutton, which has been depressed lately, but that's another story. . > ...there are 2 microswitches for the power switching function (and > one for the panel-lock function to disable the toggle switches). One > directly switches mains to the CPU power supply. This is a keyswitch front panel, with no key, so I opened it to the microswitches and tried pushing them to get the fans going, etc. and nothing. I judged, given the camming, that the lower switch (black,blue) was the panel unlock and the upper (grey,grey) the power. That might be incorrect. Also, the backpanel three pin connector described earlier came cabled, hence the suspicion that it was the/part of the power on. I'll try again tomorrow. John A. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu May 27 00:19:48 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <200405270441.i4R4fFKv015405@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405270441.i4R4fFKv015405@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20040527051948.GC1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Wed, May 26, 2004 at 09:41:14PM -0700: > That's some good advice and you just got me to thinking... As much as I > hate particle board, I bought a couple *cheap* bookcases for my one storage These shelves with the pressed particle board (it felt as hard as rock when it was new; felt as solid as oak) were far from cheap... so, if those deteriorated... > unit a few years ago. We're probably going to be moving in a few months, > and if we do, I'll finally have a garage to setup some of my DEC HW, as well > as store various items. I rather figured I'd move those bookcases out of > storage and into the garage, now I'm not so sure, as storage will be much, > much dryer. Glad to hear that it got you thinking... DEC equipment possibly crashing through bookcases wouldn't be a pleasant sight. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 23:56:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a In-Reply-To: <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 27, 4 01:48:06 am Message-ID: > At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few > of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and > found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" > the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the > CD-ROM and the floppy. On Mac IIs (and similar machines) with one floppy drive, the blanking plate for the other floppy slot is almost almost missing. It was common to find a pile of floppies on the drive chassis behind that slot.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 00:03:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at May 26, 4 10:21:49 pm Message-ID: > > I recently acquired two VT52 DECScopes and I am > ready to begin the troubleshooting process. I've > never attempted to troubleshoot a CRT device > before, and I don't want to get blasted across > the room if I do something wrong. Has anyone here > worked on these types of terminals before? I'm Yes... The power supply capacitors are the big electrolytics on the board across the back. Nonoe of them charge to that high a voltage, although I think there are some that charge to 10's of volts. I would discharge them by connecting a 10k (or so) resistor across each one in turn (I think they have screw terminals, which makes it easy to work out where to connect the resistor. To discharge the CRT final anode, I use my EHT probe. This contains an 800M high-voltage resistor. The ground lead goes on the CRT earthing braid (across the back of the CRT flare), then you stick the probe under the EHT connector on the side of the CRT and watch the reading on the voltmeter decay. > finding conflicting info on the proper method of > discharging the CRT anode. I have turned both > of them on. One lights up with random patterns, > no cursor, and a clicking sound. The VT52 maintenance > manual indicates that this is likely a problem with > the anode clip or anode cap. I'd like to move on This sounds much more like a logic problem to me. > to the next step after I make sure that both the > clip and cap are secure. > > Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions > on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How > long do these things on a charge? For the PSU electrolytics, not that long (hours, at most). For the CRT, a long time (days or weeks!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 00:12:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <010b01c443a4$ce414ca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at May 27, 4 00:40:57 am Message-ID: > > > Oh, check all the circuit breakers are on. > > It's easy to knock on to the 'off' postiion. > > I don't see a big flipswitch circuit breaker on this old guy, nothing > like the newer 11/34 that's here. There is a little 10A pushbutton, > which has been depressed lately, but that's another story. . What about the breaker on the power controller? And is this the 5.25" or 10.5" high CPU box? > > > ...there are 2 microswitches for the power switching function (and > > one for the panel-lock function to disable the toggle switches). One > > directly switches mains to the CPU power supply. > > This is a keyswitch front panel, with no key, so I opened it to the > microswitches and tried pushing them to get the fans going, etc. > and nothing. I judged, given the camming, that the lower switch > (black,blue) was the panel unlock and the upper (grey,grey) the > power. That might be incorrect. Also, the backpanel three pin > connector described earlier came cabled, hence the suspicion > that it was the/part of the power on. I'll try again tomorrow. On the power controller there should be a little toggle switch. This should be set to 'Remote'. Try connecting the CPU mains cable directly to the mains (without the power controller) and frobbing the microswitches (take care, at least on the 5.25" box, one of the switches carries mains. Does that get it going? -tony From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Thu May 27 00:26:10 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> You might want to price 3/4" marine plywood. You can cut down one sheet and probably replace 4 to 5 of the shelves. Home Depot's and Lowes' websites don't seem to show marine plywood, or any plywood in 3/4" thicknesses, but you could call around to local lumber yards. You don't have to go specifically with marine plywood... TTFN Andy-roo From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 27 01:01:06 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <20040527051948.GC1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405270441.i4R4fFKv015405@onyx.spiritone.com> <20040527051948.GC1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Glad to hear that it got you thinking... DEC equipment possibly >crashing through bookcases wouldn't be a pleasant sight. Not equipment, OS manuals. Both bookcases are stuffed with VMS, RSX, RT-11, RSTS/E, DOS/Batch, and Ultrix manuals, as well as a few HW manuals :^) The scary thing is that's just a portion of my DEC library. The hardware rates real wood shelving (or DEC racks). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From GOOI at oce.nl Thu May 27 01:43:58 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> In an effort to beat Al, :-) I have a website page that deals with the M9312, and the PROMs: www.pdp-11.nl/ Click on the PDP-11/34A folder, the CPU information folder, the options folder and then on the bootstrap link ... It describes the installation in the various PDP-11's, the jumpers and DIP switch settings and the PROMs. The PROM id's are links ... Come to think of it: a description how to read the PROM when it is socketed in the M9312 for identification purposes would be a nice addition. hope this is usefull, - Henk, PA8PDP > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe R. [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: donderdag 27 mei 2004 3:58 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs > > > Dammit Al! You're always one step ahead of the rest of us! > > Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 27 02:30:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: VCF East preparations are afoot... Message-ID: Ok, I'm finally catching up with VCF East planning. Sorry for all the delays. The dates for VCF East are July 16-17 (FRIDAY and Saturday). The location is Burlington, Massachusetts, at Sun Microsystems' corporate campus. Sun is sponsoring the event. Those who have already submitted exhibit entries have just been replied to (Tom Uban: you probably won't get my e-mail due to spam blocks but rest assured you're in there). Current exhibitors can be seen on the VCF East 2.0 exhibits page: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php We've got ten exhibitors so far (2 pending approval) which is a good start, but I'd like to see more. So if you're planning to exhibit at VCF East, now's the time to register. I'm also putting together the speaker roster. If you have someone you'd like to suggest as a speaker, or you'd like to give a talk yourself, please e-mail me. Things will start moving fast from this point forward. The next VCF Gazette will be coming out soon with more information. Hope to see you all at VCF East 2.0! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 02:32:58 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: "R. D. Davis" "Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 27, 0:18) References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <10405270832.ZM25540@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 0:18, R. D. Davis wrote: > While there's nothing extremely heavy on the shelves - e.g., one shelf > contains a Canon laser printer (the square one with a CX engine), > about 40 full-height 5-1/4" hard drives, an 8" floppy drive and a few > other things, I noticed that some of the items on some of the shelves > appear to be leaning slightly. It turns out that the boards are > sagging a bit towards the center, so it's just a matter of time before > things begin to go crash. Not sure how soon that might happen, but > this sagging has occurred fairly quickly, or so it seems. Perhaps this will reassure you a bit. This happens gradually over time to particle board (we call it chipboard over here), and it probably hasn't happened suddenly -- it's just that you didn't notice until it reached some threshold. The board is very flexible,and it will bend a long way before it gives way. It's very common to see sagging shelves especially where the suports are at or near the ends instead of about 1/4 of the way in (so the forces on each side balance better). It's also very common to see cabinets (chest of drawers, kitchen cupboard standing alone) with sides bowing outwards. I've seen a chipboard shelf sag so much it slipped between the end supports, but rarely seen one snap. For bookshelves, using 5/8" chipboard, a general recommendation is no more than 2'6" between supports, assuming the shelf is about 50% deeper than the books. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed May 26 20:32:05 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: 9312 ROM Archiving Message-ID: <200405261832050321.147EEA24@192.168.42.129> Although I'm not collecting computers any more, I still run a large FTP site, and I have the capability to read (and program) all kinds of devices, including bipolar PROMs. I would be happy to donate my services at no cost (well, perhaps enough to cover return mail) in terms of archiving images of the boot PROMs, and making them available for download. All I would need is original (or copied) PROMs to be read and archived, along with a description of which ROM is for what purpose. The original devices would then be returned to whoever sent them. I invite anyone who wants to do this to contact me via private E-mail, and I will set it up. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 27 03:05:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Paging Michael Thompson Message-ID: Michael Thompson, I can't e-mail you because of a spam filter on your side :( Have you got an alternate address? Please e-mail me (I can receive from you). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu May 27 03:51:08 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <40B53BD4.60500@mdrconsult.com> References: <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040527094034.01edb150@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:52 26/05/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Pete Turnbull wrote: > >>On May 26, 13:07, Fred Cisin wrote: > >>At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few >>of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and >>found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" >>the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the >>CD-ROM and the floppy. > > I've seen that in 6 or 7 different machines, all from day-care and > kindergarten facilities. "Me too" Also (more on topic) 5 1/4" floppies going the same way.. I remember (few years back) buying a new cd-rom drive from a local bucket shop for a PC we were building. Plumbed it into the machine, powered up, pressed Eject, and in the tray already was a genuine Windows 95 CD-Rom, with serial number written on it in a pen (and the words "shop copy"). Hmm... "New" ? Most dangerous object I found: Doing a cabling job some years back in some offices in Liverpool, stood on the top of a step-ladder, pushed up a tile in the false-ceilings whereupon it tilted abruptly and a large, heavy, hammer shot past my eyes and hit the floor with a loud thud.. That was a slightly more lucky escape than the time I was working elsewhere on a Cat5 wall socket when the customer's MD decided to "help" me by putting the ceiling tiles back. Unfortunately, they were large heavy asbestos-type tiles, and the one he decided to put back was directly above my head: It broke as he lifted it up. That cost me a trip to casualty and two stitches.. Rob. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 27 05:23:36 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 08:43:58AM +0200, Gooijen H wrote: > In an effort to beat Al, :-) I have a website page that > deals with the M9312, and the PROMs: www.pdp-11.nl/ While we're at it, how about an archive of pdp-8/a PROMs... There are, AFAIK, three sets - the newest includes the RL8A bootstrap. I don't have access to my -8/a stuff here (big surprise), or I'd start us all off. I'm even willing to reverse-engineer source from binary, if someone makes the binary available... I just got my first IOB-6120 working, so I'm in a 12-bit mindset right now. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-May-2004 10:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.2 F (-65.0 C) Windchill -121.7 F (-85.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 061 Barometer 681.8 mb (10559. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 27 05:48:26 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: ST6803P datasheet? Message-ID: <200405271048.i4RAmQhc009215@huey.classiccmp.org> At 01:23 27/05/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Jules Richardson wrote: >> I have a few of the things (and a whole pile of 68A09 CPUs which also >> seem very hard to find data for). > >The 6809 data sheet should tell you about the 68A09 and 68B09, too. >As for software, there's always "Programming The 6809" by Rodnay Zaks >and William Labiak. Or "6809 Assembly Language Programming" by >Lance Leventhal. Both the the 6809 data sheet, and the Motorola 6809/6809E Microprocessor Programming Manual are available on my web site: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html Go to the "D6809 Portable" entry, and then select "Documentation" and scroll down to the "Reference material" section. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu May 27 05:57:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1085655459.14181.8.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 04:18, R. D. Davis wrote: > No other space to store some of these things, so, I'm just hoping for > the best until I can make other arrangements, but 3/4" oak planks, > which I'd prefer to use for adding some support, have become quite > expensive. Replacing the particleboard would be a major pain, since > the entire shelving assembly would have to be disassembled. Can't you put a brace made from a piece of angle iron diagonally under each shelf? That should significantly increase the load capacity. As Pete says, those sorts of shelves do tend to sag a lot rather than actually break. I've got entirely metal shelving up in the roof space for things like floppy and hard drives - ask around locally and you'll probably find someone throwing some out. It's bowing slightly (surprising how much 30-odd drives weigh!) but at least I know it's not going to suddenly break (I'm more worried about the whole lot falling through the floor to be honest :-) I use wooden shelving for the manuals - just cheap and nasty pine stuff (I was given three large units which somebody was throwing out, otherwise I would have built something a bit more substantial). So far no problems with that, despite the weight of paper that they're holding. 'real' wood is surprisingly expensive these days it seems! cheers Jules From bert at brothom.nl Thu May 27 06:27:27 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: building an RS-485<->RS422 converter References: <20040526220603.GB9082@bos7.spole.gov> <20040527011627.GB16576@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40B5D09F.6C1E4ACB@brothom.nl> Ethan, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > It is a point-to-point RS-485 link, in this particular installation, not > multi-drop, fortunately. > > I presume I would just tie the enable pins to "true" > > The RS-485 device in question is a simple 4-wire transmit/receive pair. > I don't understand why you need a converter anyway. RS422 and RS485 use the same voltage levels AFAIK. RS422 uses two pairs of wires: one for sending and one for receiving. Devices are daisy-chained. RS485 uses one pair of wires, for both sending and receiving. Some RS485 devices have seperate terminals for the sending and receiving wires, so they are in fact RS422 devices. Normally those wires are connected in parallel, so that the devices also receives what it sends. There is basically one situation that has to be avoided and that is two transmitters connected at the same time. If you say that you RS485 device has 4 wires, I'd guess it has 2 for sending and 2 for receiving, so it would simply connect easy to the RS422 device. BTW, a common mistake is that people think that since RS422/RS485 are differential busses, the ground does not have to be connected. I once red a very good article on this topic that explains that the grounds of all devices should _always_ be connected. Correct me if I'm wrong. -- One thing I just wondered: in what time zone do you people at the southpole live? Bert From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 27 07:43:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope References: Message-ID: <16565.57980.528000.476245@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> You may or may not hear a snap, or see a small blue flash when John> you get the tip of the screwdriver close enough to the anode John> connection - it depends on how well the CRT in the terminal is John> retaining it's charge. One small point: In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from the metal shaft of the screwdriver. The most natural position for the fingers is close to the metal, occasionally slipping right onto it. That's NOT where you want to be when you're poking around high voltages. There are special "safety" screwdrivers (designed/approved for work in live mains power systems). Those have shafts that are insulated right up to the tip. You could give yourself a little extra safety by wrapping a few layers of electrician's tape around the top 2-3 inches of the screwdriver shaft. But keeping your fingers on the top half of the handle is the thing to aim for. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 27 07:54:34 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Message-ID: <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Prince writes: Andrew> You might want to price 3/4" marine plywood. You can cut down Andrew> one sheet and probably replace 4 to 5 of the shelves. Andrew> Home Depot's and Lowes' websites don't seem to show marine Andrew> plywood, or any plywood in 3/4" thicknesses, but you could Andrew> call around to local lumber yards. You don't have to go Andrew> specifically with marine plywood... Or furniture grade plywood. I have had a particle board bookshelf come apart. The blame was in part on incompetent design ("scandinavian design" pretty looking stuff) -- the shelf was "supported" on a groove milled in the edge. That means the load was carried on less than half the thickness of the shelf. Even so, a better material would not have failed. I think US building rules say that particle board (or its various analogs, such as OSB -- I still call that particle board) are not allowed for load bearing applications such as floors. Those must be plywood. And personally I view any house built with particle board *anywhere* (even where it's permitted) as cheap construction. So I'd say that you should never use particle board to carry loads. Solid hardwood will do, and hardwood plywood is perhaps better (doesn't warp). We now have some book shelves made of solid hardwood, some made of 1/2 inch birch plywood. For heavy loads I'd perhaps increase that thickness. Finally, keeping the spans short is a big help. paul From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 27 08:34:15 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: OLD RSTS manuals found Message-ID: I was going through some boxes of old stuff from my college days and I found the following manuals: * RSTS-11 System Managers Guide, DEC-11-ORSMA-B-D for use with V004A, Jan 1973 * RSTS/E System Generation Manual, Update#1, DEC-11-ORGNA-A-D (for V06A-02), July 1975, Dec 1975 * RSTS/E System Reliability Test, DEC-11-ORSRB-A-D (for V05B-24), October 1974 * RSTS/E System Manager's Guide, DEC-11-ORSMC-A-D (for V05C-01), October 1974 * RSTS/E Documentation Directory, DEC-11-ORDAA-A-D (for V6), July 1975 * RSTS/E System Manager's Guide, DEC-11-ORSMB-A-D, (for V05A), First Printing, May 1973 (V4?) Does anyone know if these exist in PDF form yet? I have not looked over all the contents of Al's Bitsavers yet, but I thought I'd go ahead and make a list of what I have here. If these aren't in PDF form somewhere already, I'll try to scan them some time over the summer. I need to get a scanner with a sheet feeder! Ashley From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Thu May 27 08:46:20 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40B5F12C.1080501@sbcglobal.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > In case anyone else on this list is using steel shelving with particle > board shelves that's been in use for over ten years, and hasn't given > the shelving a careful looking over, it may be a good idea to do so... > > ... I noticed that some of the items on some of the shelves > appear to be leaning slightly. It turns out that the boards are > sagging a bit towards the center, so it's just a matter of time before > things begin to go crash. Not sure how soon that might happen, but > this sagging has occurred fairly quickly, or so it seems... Here's a little fix I would do. Get some 2"x4" boards. Assuming your shelves are 4'x8' sheets, screw the boards to the underside of the shelves, across the middle. End up dividing it into 2 4'x4' sections. Unload the shelves first, or at least most of the heavy stuff, and push the rest to the side. Use 3" drywall screws, and set them about 8" apart starting from one side, and working across to the other side. pre-drilling holes might make it a little easier for you. If you can, have someone/something push the shelf back up to level first. It may not end up pretty, but like you said, it's cheaper than a full oak plank deck. Of course, someone else also mentioned angle iron also. That would work good, especially if you get a length with the holes already drilled through. Then just bolt it to the underside of the shelf... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From cb at mythtech.net Thu May 27 08:47:39 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning Message-ID: >It turns out that the boards are >sagging a bit towards the center, so it's just a matter of time before >things begin to go crash. Not sure how soon that might happen, but >this sagging has occurred fairly quickly, or so it seems. The moisture helped, but particle board does just sag over time. But it may be a while before it crashes, and it probably will slip free of the end supports before it actually breaks. I had a particle board shelf over a kitchen sink in my old house. The steam from washing dishes caused the board to sag under the weight of the cookbooks something fierce. I had almost a full 1 foot displacement from the low point of the center to the height of the shelf supports on the sides. The shelf was only 5 feet long, so you can imagine how much of a bow that was. My shelf was screwed into the side supports so it couldn't slip out. Mine bowed within the first year of it being there (when I moved in there was one there that was just as bad, and I replaced it). It stayed bowed for 2 years until I got annoyed at everything falling over from the angle. I then screwed a hook into the shelf, and into the ceiling, and over the course of a few days, pulled the board straight using a chain (I couldn't add another support in the middle because it was in front of a window). With the help of the chain, the board remained almost perfectly straight for the last 2 years I lived there (I was never able to get it exactly straight again and I didn't feel like replacing the shelf again in a place I was renting). So my guess is, you will get a large bow in that board without it breaking. The only fear I would have is the board bowing so much it slips off the end supports and the entire shelf drops. If you can find a way to resupport the middle you can probably stop the bow entirely and it will continue to give you years of happy service. -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 27 08:43:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <20040526195217.U99287@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526223007.00890330@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040526223007.00890330@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040527094346.009033d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:54 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >good thing that you didn't go under the car and meet the gators! LOL! I'd forgotten about that. When I was a kid a gator parked itself under my neighbor's VW. The neighbor came out and found it and tried to chase it off with a broom. The gator stood up on all four legs and picked up the VW and headed for a nearby lake with the VW on it's back! Then the neighbor had to run in front of the gator and try to chase it back into the yard to keep from losing the VW! Needless to say, things got pretty exciting for a while! Joe > >> Although not a computer, it was in Florida. When I was there, >> one of my lady friends talked me into working on he old Mercedes. >> We when out to start looking it over. On opening the driver door, >> there was a large black widow spider. A few moments later we'd >> gotten her into a soda cup from a fast food. >> I next started to move some of the stuff around so I could get >> in and do some more looking over. This is when the largest >> scorpion I'd ever seen ran across my lap. >> Still wanting to help out, we opened the hood to see what size >> battery it would require. That is when the rattle snake let >> us know that we were in his territory. >> At this point I told her that a dead boy friend was not to >> good and that I'd only consider working on the car if she >> got it fumigated. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 27 08:44:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <000401c44397$794479f0$0100a8c0@thunder> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040527094452.008e15b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:05 AM 5/27/04 +0100, you wrote: >dont ask me how it got in there... but I found a kiddies sock in a pc If you had kids you'd know better than to ask! Joe > >Charles 'Thunder' Blackburn >Quake3 Co-Lead >http://www.tsncentral.com >The Leader in the E-Sports Revolution > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:08 PM >Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? > > >> I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found >> a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a >> HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come >in >> handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, >> connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the >strangest >> thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >> electronics gear. >> >> Joe >> >> > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu May 27 08:51:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: OLD RSTS manuals found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > I was going through some boxes of old stuff from my college > days and I found the following manuals: Nice find!!! I just checked.. the RSTS stuff Ihave totals at 760MB, so about 700MB zipped. Are you OK with this size? --f From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu May 27 09:09:16 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: OLD RSTS manuals found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405270709.16395.lbickley@bickleywest.com> If they aren't already in PDF form, why not send the manuuals to Al and have him scan them - he's got a great scanner!! Lyle On Thursday 27 May 2004 06:34, Ashley Carder wrote: > I was going through some boxes of old stuff from my college > days and I found the following manuals: > > * RSTS-11 System Managers Guide, DEC-11-ORSMA-B-D for use with V004A, Jan > 1973 > * RSTS/E System Generation Manual, Update#1, DEC-11-ORGNA-A-D (for > V06A-02), July 1975, Dec 1975 > * RSTS/E System Reliability Test, DEC-11-ORSRB-A-D (for V05B-24), October > 1974 > * RSTS/E System Manager's Guide, DEC-11-ORSMC-A-D (for V05C-01), October > 1974 > * RSTS/E Documentation Directory, DEC-11-ORDAA-A-D (for V6), July 1975 > * RSTS/E System Manager's Guide, DEC-11-ORSMB-A-D, (for V05A), First > Printing, May 1973 (V4?) > > Does anyone know if these exist in PDF form yet? I have not looked over > all the contents of Al's Bitsavers yet, but I thought I'd go ahead and make > a list of > what I have here. If these aren't in PDF form somewhere already, I'll try > to scan them > some time over the summer. I need to get a scanner with a sheet feeder! > > Ashley -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From allain at panix.com Thu May 27 09:19:48 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><200405270441.i4R4fFKv015405@onyx.spiritone.com> <20040527051948.GC1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001601c443f5$ab80a5c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> FWIW I've used 7 of these units in my Garage for about 10 years with no problems. The garage yearly temperature range is about 32?F to 95?F with no great humidity load. Seem good as new now. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu May 27 09:35:26 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: Message-ID: <004801c443f7$da799240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I do need some definmitions. > What about the breaker on the power controller? Power controller? Same as a power supply? This one has the PSU on the right side with no obvious switches that I've yet found (maybe I have to change my definition of obvious). Breaker as I said is a just a small button, or, it's hidden under a cover somewhere... more looking. > And is this the 5.25" or 10.5" high CPU box? 10.5 > On the power controller there should be a little toggle > switch. This should be set to 'Remote'. Not found (yet). This is one of the oldest PDP's made. Second model, I believe. > Try connecting the CPU mains cable directly to the mains >(without the power controller)... CPU mains cable sounds obvious, but what I have may be the power controller cable(?) Like I said, please define it for me. Yes, I just looked around again with a flashlight, and peering under the varouus grillworks, stopping just short of removing the PSU cover. No circuitbreaker-switch. The two three pin ports that I mentioned first up are located directly in front of a fair sized relay. Will try switching there (and in front with the microswitches) at next opportunity, in a few hours. John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu May 27 09:36:25 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF east from the Washington DC area? Message-ID: I haven't decided for sure, but I'm thinking of going. If I do decide to go, I'd want to drive and I'd rather not drive the whole way myself. Actually, arranging a car (or van) pool would likely clinch my decision in favor of going. Available travel options will also (obviously) influence what I might bring to exhibit. I will not be available for an extended trip... itinerary would need to be something like: pack Wednesday night, travel up Thursday, attend, pack Saturday night, travel back Sunday. Based on my expirences driving to NYC, I assume the trip to Burlington would kill a day. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink From allain at panix.com Thu May 27 09:35:57 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40B52938.7080106@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <004e01c443f7$ecd6cde0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> In the spirit of the thread: Wierdest thing found in an item of electronics: While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the back of the truck headed for the dump, I went to said dump and dug around for a while. Vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes plus charcoal fires plus time equals shriveled up raisinlike vacuum tubes. Wierd. Stepping into a new spirit: Wierdest design found in an item of electronics: A 1950's programmable function keypad implemented by placing a 3x4 matrix of switches under Each key. To change the bit patterns sent, a new bank of pins could be loaded under all the keys at once by slipping in a new cardfull of spring loaded pins. The things they had to do before EPROMS. Geesh. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu May 27 09:42:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: <004801c443f7$da799240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <007201c443f8$d77165e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Two corrections to my last post: 'definitions' and 'oldest PDP-11s' John A. we regret any unintended offense, especially to PDP-8 owners (bow). From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu May 27 10:03:40 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <004801c443f7$da799240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527095008.03340d70@mail.ubanproductions.com> >Power controller? Same as a power supply? A power controller is another box which typically plugs into the main power source and has a number of switched and un-switched outlets. It also has some of those 3-pin connectors on it, usually one "in" and two "out", as well as a local/remote switch and circuit breaker. The power controller allows the connection of the 3-pin on the back of the CPU box to control the power of the entire rack of equipment at the turn of the key switch on the CPU. If you are talking about just your 11/10 box, then you don't need to worry about a power controller. >This one has the PSU on the right side with no obvious >switches that I've yet found (maybe I have to change my >definition of obvious). >Breaker as I said is a just a small button, or, >it's hidden under a cover somewhere... more looking. Yes, this is just like my 11/05. There are likely to be fuses inside of the power supply as well, but you will need to consult the manual I pointed you at yesterday on this point. The key switch on the front of the CPU has 3 positions, OFF, POWER, and PANEL LOCK. Both POWER and PANEL LOCK should turn on the power supply, but the console switches will be disabled when in the PANEL LOCK position. > > On the power controller there should be a little toggle > > switch. This should be set to 'Remote'. > >Not found (yet). This is one of the oldest PDP's made. >Second model, I believe. The 'Remote' switch refers to the power controller which I described above. There isn't a 'Remote' switch on the 11/10 CPU itself. > > Try connecting the CPU mains cable directly to the mains > >(without the power controller)... > >CPU mains cable sounds obvious, but what I have may be >the power controller cable(?) >Like I said, please define it for me. The term "mains" is European for A/C power cord. >Yes, I just looked around again with a flashlight, and peering under >the varouus grillworks, stopping just short of removing the PSU cover. >No circuitbreaker-switch. The two three pin ports that I mentioned first >up are located directly in front of a fair sized relay. Will try switching >there (and in front with the microswitches) at next opportunity, in a few >hours. The two 3-pin connectors would normally run to the power controller (described above) and allow the CPU key switch to turn on/off the power controller's switched outlets, thus controlling the power of the other devices in the rack(s). You need to look in the schematics at the H750 and console panel drawings and figure out how to bypass your key switch, or get yourself a key. If it is the same basic (flat, not cylindrical) key that my 11/05 uses, I could have it copied for you. I also have the standard DEC cylinder key, which I can also have copied for you if you need. http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1105S_Schem.pdf --tom From emu at ecubics.com Thu May 27 10:31:11 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B609BF.9080102@ecubics.com> few pounds of cat food in a RX02. Guy stored his PDP in the basement, didn't use it for years. Guess some mice family used it for storage ;-) From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu May 27 03:08:06 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 2004 00:18:25 EDT." <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200405270808.JAA20412@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "R. D. Davis" said: > While there's nothing extremely heavy on the shelves - e.g., one shelf > contains a Canon laser printer (the square one with a CX engine), > about 40 full-height 5-1/4" hard drives, an 8" floppy drive and a few > other things, I noticed that some of the items on some of the shelves > appear to be leaning slightly. It turns out that the boards are > sagging a bit towards the center, so it's just a matter of time before > things begin to go crash. Not sure how soon that might happen, but > this sagging has occurred fairly quickly, or so it seems. The desk on which my main Mac sits is made of this stuff and is sagging under the weight of the two monitors. That's only a year old. Needless to say it's scheduled for prompt replacement with a steel desk! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu May 27 10:46:28 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <004801c443f7$da799240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527103949.03545e68@mail.ubanproductions.com> I just remembered that there is normally closed thermal switch in line with the key switch which if bad will keep the power supply from doing anything. I've seen two of these thermal switches fail open for no apparent reason... --tom From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu May 27 10:54:58 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40B609BF.9080102@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <015c01c44402$f60eb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> 1) Dead mouse in a PC that someone gave me to repair for them. They had it in active use in their home. Needless to say the problem was obvious. 2) Opened the back cover of an LA36, and found an omnibus async card in an antistatic bag tucked inside. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu May 27 11:13:13 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: <004801c443f7$da799240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16566.5017.664648.349566@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: John> I do need some definmitions. >> What about the breaker on the power controller? John> Power controller? Same as a power supply? This one has the John> PSU on the right side with no obvious switches that I've yet John> found (maybe I have to change my definition of obvious). John> Breaker as I said is a just a small button, or, it's hidden John> under a cover somewhere... more looking. No, a power controller is a device you'll find in the larger DEC systems. Typically it's a separate rackmount box, found in the bottom of the back of the chassis. It distributes power to the various components in the rack, and contains circuit breakers and power sequencing relays. Look for something with a power inlet and a half dozen outlets on it, plus a 4?-wire plastic plug which is the sequencing control. The idea is that you'd hook all the power controllers together, and then the CPU power key would control all the power in the system even if it has multiple racks with multiple power inlets. paul From vrs at msn.com Thu May 27 11:22:14 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found insideacomputer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><40B609BF.9080102@ecubics.com> <015c01c44402$f60eb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > 2) Opened the back cover of an LA36, and found an omnibus async card in an > antistatic bag tucked inside. Having several of each, that doesn't seem odd to me at all :-). (If I was going to truck/ship them anywhere, I'd probably do that myself.) Vince From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Thu May 27 11:27:36 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: Transputer Education Kits Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478065530F4@exchange.olf.com> Just been posted on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=4134317003&r d=1&ssPageName=WDVW Cheers, Ram (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu May 27 11:29:54 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:52 2005 Subject: building an RS-485<->RS422 converter Message-ID: <200405271629.JAA21437@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bert Thomas" > >Ethan, > >Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> It is a point-to-point RS-485 link, in this particular installation, not >> multi-drop, fortunately. >> >> I presume I would just tie the enable pins to "true" >> >> The RS-485 device in question is a simple 4-wire transmit/receive pair. >> > >I don't understand why you need a converter anyway. RS422 and RS485 use >the same voltage levels AFAIK. RS422 uses two pairs of wires: one for >sending and one for receiving. Devices are daisy-chained. RS485 uses one >pair of wires, for both sending and receiving. Some RS485 devices have >seperate terminals for the sending and receiving wires, so they are in >fact RS422 devices. Normally those wires are connected in parallel, so >that the devices also receives what it sends. > >There is basically one situation that has to be avoided and that is two >transmitters connected at the same time. If you say that you RS485 >device has 4 wires, I'd guess it has 2 for sending and 2 for receiving, >so it would simply connect easy to the RS422 device. > >BTW, a common mistake is that people think that since RS422/RS485 are >differential busses, the ground does not have to be connected. I once >red a very good article on this topic that explains that the grounds of >all devices should _always_ be connected. > >Correct me if I'm wrong. Hi Yes, the ground/commons do need to be connected. The receivers only have so much common range that they work over. These are more tolerant of ground noise but they have limits just as well as any solid state device does. You absolutely need to have a reasonably good common ground. As I recall, they are spec'ed as about 7 volts common noise and have a maximum of around 15 volts common voltage. With high power devices or circuits that do are not connected to a common ground, these levels can be easily exceeded. It is best to have a star type ground system to avoid ground loops. If you need true isolation, one should use optical isolators or transformers. Dwight > >-- >One thing I just wondered: in what time zone do you people at the >southpole live? > >Bert > From charlesmorris at direcway.com Thu May 27 12:27:08 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (charlesmorris@direcway.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? Message-ID: <3d55c73d8903.3d89033d55c7@direcway.com> >> But I got to wondering what is the strangest thing that anyone has >> ever found inside a computer or similar piece of electronics gear. >Spiders and I saw a computer (well, a PeeCee) that was used by a mouse >or similar rodent as a toilet... Not so unusual, I guess, but I opened up my PDP-8/L and found a large mouse nest complete with mother and three jellybean-sized babies nursing. She ran away dragging them from her nipples. Just as well, I wouldn't have had the heart to kill them anyway. I also had a home-built S-100 system when I lived in an apartment. There were occasional roaches. One day I noticed a roach or two running into and out of the computer case. I lifted the lid and saw literally HUNDREDS of them, heading in every direction including up my arm. I retreated and returned with a large can of insecticide... there was an amazing amount of turds, too. Talk about debugging a computer :) -Charles From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 27 12:37:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found insideacomputer? In-Reply-To: <004e01c443f7$ecd6cde0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40B52938.7080106@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040527133733.008872f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:35 AM 5/27/04 -0400, you wrote: >In the spirit of the thread: >Wierdest thing found in an item of electronics: >While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the back >of the truck headed for the dump, I went to said dump and dug >around for a while. Vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes plus charcoal >fires plus time equals shriveled up raisinlike vacuum tubes. Wierd. Probably could have sold them as modern art! Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu May 27 12:45:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040527094346.009033d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > LOL! I'd forgotten about that. When I was a kid a gator parked itself > under my neighbor's VW. The neighbor came out and found it and tried to > chase it off with a broom. The gator stood up on all four legs and picked > up the VW and headed for a nearby lake with the VW on it's back! Then the > neighbor had to run in front of the gator and try to chase it back into the > yard to keep from losing the VW! Needless to say, things got pretty > exciting for a while! That's the funniest thing I've herad all day (it's still early though). Too bad there wasn't a video camera around. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From arcarlini at iee.org Thu May 27 13:25:04 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Christine Finn on BBC Radio 4 In-Reply-To: <3d55c73d8903.3d89033d55c7@direcway.com> Message-ID: <004501c44417$ee96e6e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> If you head over to BBC Radio 4's page and look for this Monday's "Start the Week" programme, the 3rd (IIRC) item is Christine Finn discussing the computer collecting culture in California. You can begin here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml#s Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Thu May 27 13:30:39 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Christine Finn on BBC Radio 4 In-Reply-To: <004501c44417$ee96e6e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <004601c44418$b5c3abe0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If you head over to BBC Radio 4's page and look > for this Monday's "Start the Week" programme, the > 3rd (IIRC) item is Christine Finn discussing > the computer collecting culture in California. > > You can begin here: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml#s For the impatient, start 23:00 minutes in ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu May 27 13:32:40 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040526185636.00ad9a10@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Sweet! Verbal tennis! I volley: http://www.machack.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stevens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:00 PM Subject: RE: for sale etiquette? > Even in computing contexts, many people would say that methodical and > consistent development work, i.e. the kind of thing someone familiar with > Knuth and who is a trained software engineer, is better than something > 'hacked together' by one guy at 4 in the morning. > > This is a very debatable topic, of course. But the myth of the 'greatest > software' coming out of hacking sessions is generally rather dubious. Said > 'greatest software' (i.e the much lauded Open Source/Free Software) usually > comes out of _many_ so-called hacking sessions, with a huge amount of > social interaction glueing the development together. > From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 27 14:08:43 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Help identifying AppleII cards? Message-ID: <200405271908.i4RJ8hhc012683@huey.classiccmp.org> Picked up a IIe today - has a couple of cards in it that I have not seen before... #1 ISAAC INTERFACE BOARD D91A-8318 REVC Copyright 1981 by CYBORG CORP Large format card (large enough to slope down at front) Has an 6522 on it. Also has an external battery box that plugs into a small barrel jack at the front of the card. Has 6 pin terminal strip, plus two 34 pin ribbon cable headers. Small 4-position DIP switch at front, 8-position DIP switch farther back (under terminal strip). #2 No markings at all. Smaller card, slightly longer than Apple disk controller. Has a 20 pin header sticking out the back of the card. Has an RCA 1802 CPU on it! 2 2k EPROMS 1 6 position DIP switch. Anyone recognize these? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From webhead at theantiquecomputer.com Thu May 27 14:19:12 2004 From: webhead at theantiquecomputer.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Christine Finn on BBC Radio 4 References: <004501c44417$ee96e6e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <001901c4441f$7e93b1e0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:25 PM Subject: Christine Finn on BBC Radio 4 > If you head over to BBC Radio 4's page and look > for this Monday's "Start the Week" programme, the > 3rd (IIRC) item is Christine Finn discussing > the computer collecting culture in California. > Ah, ya gotta admire those trendsetters in cali ! bm > You can begin here: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml#s > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Thu May 27 14:44:52 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> I think archiving ROM images is a very good idea. I should have done this earlier. A few weeks ago my VT100 decided to give up on ROM 2. So I am looking for an replacement or at least the image of ROM 2. Even better if someone would have images of all VT100 ROMs. Part No of my ROM 2 is 23-032E-00. As of DEC VT100 schematics it should be a 2316. TIA Gerold (pdp8.de) From arcarlini at iee.org Thu May 27 14:47:08 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Christine Finn on BBC Radio 4 In-Reply-To: <001901c4441f$7e93b1e0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <004f01c44423$65629480$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Ah, ya gotta admire those trendsetters in cali ! It's quite interesting being on the receiving end of an archeologist's attention. That "being seen as others see you" thing. She had the techie attitude to the Fog display exactly right ("this is how it probably works, but it would have been better if ...") :-) I thought the other panelists seemed quite clued up too; realising that the software is just as important as the hardware shows a keen mind (remember that the rest of the panel are non-computer people). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org> From arcarlini at iee.org Thu May 27 14:50:04 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] In-Reply-To: <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> Message-ID: <005001c44423$ce5e57d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > A few weeks ago my VT100 decided to give up on ROM 2. > So I am looking for an replacement or at least the image of > ROM 2. Even better if someone would have images of all VT100 > ROMs. Part No of my ROM 2 is 23-032E-00. As of DEC VT100 > schematics it should be a 2316. Whoever ends up hosting the archive may want to consider storing the files by part number name (e.g. 23-032E-00 for the DEC ROM above, although I suspect there's a digit missing out of the middle of that 2-5-2 part number!). An accompanying index file could spell out exactly what is what (including version numbers, where appropriate). (Must remember to go off and dig up the few I have somewhere and contribute them). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu May 27 08:30:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: building an RS-485<->RS422 converter In-Reply-To: <40B5D09F.6C1E4ACB@brothom.nl> References: <20040526220603.GB9082@bos7.spole.gov> <20040527011627.GB16576@bos7.spole.gov> <40B5D09F.6C1E4ACB@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <20040527133033.GB25935@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 12:27:27PM +0100, Bert Thomas wrote: > I don't understand why you need a converter anyway. RS422 and RS485 use > the same voltage levels AFAIK. There is overlap between the permissible levels for RS422 and RS485, but, officially, if you graph out the voltages and permissible sink currents, they are not _required_ to be in the same range. > There is basically one situation that has to be avoided and that is two > transmitters connected at the same time. If you say that you RS485 > device has 4 wires, I'd guess it has 2 for sending and 2 for receiving, > so it would simply connect easy to the RS422 device. In my particular case, the one device happens to be a 4-wire send/receive double pair... I was just concerned about being formal and proper and hooking two devices together via buffered interfaces. > BTW, a common mistake is that people think that since RS422/RS485 are > differential busses, the ground does not have to be connected. I once > red a very good article on this topic that explains that the grounds of > all devices should _always_ be connected. > > Correct me if I'm wrong. AFAIK, your ground reference needs to be common in nearly all cases. > -- > One thing I just wondered: in what time zone do you people at the > southpole live? We happen to keep NZ time, specifically because planes come from McMurdo Station which also keeps NZ time, because their planes come from NZ. That way, nobody has to worry about time shifts. Here at Pole, obviously, we could keep any time we wished. The typical desire is to synchronize with our flight schedule. Otherwise, we might as well keep GMT to make the scientific data collection easy (all of our logs for the experiment are kept in GMT). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-May-2004 13:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -86.4 F (-65.8 C) Windchill -122.8 F (-86 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.5 kts Grid 070 Barometer 681.4 mb (10571. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Thu May 27 15:07:59 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] References: <005001c44423$ce5e57d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <40B64A9F.5090008@gmx.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>A few weeks ago my VT100 decided to give up on ROM 2. >>So I am looking for an replacement or at least the image of >>ROM 2. Even better if someone would have images of all VT100 >>ROMs. Part No of my ROM 2 is 23-032E-00. As of DEC VT100 >>schematics it should be a 2316. > > > Whoever ends up hosting the archive may want to > consider storing the files by part number name > (e.g. 23-032E-00 for the DEC ROM above, > although I suspect there's a digit missing out > of the middle of that 2-5-2 part number!). Oops my fault 23-032E2-00 should be OK. From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu May 27 15:23:44 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Paging Mike Stein in Toronto Message-ID: <200405272023.i4RKNihc013292@huey.classiccmp.org> Trying to reach Mike Stein in Toronto, who is also a collector of vintage computing equipment. Please drop me a line at the address in my sig. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 15:20:42 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: Stan Barr "Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 27, 9:08) References: <200405270808.JAA20412@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <10405272120.ZM26036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 9:08, Stan Barr wrote: > The desk on which my main Mac sits is made of this stuff and is sagging > under the weight of the two monitors. That's only a year old. Needless > to say it's scheduled for prompt replacement with a steel desk! Cheaper solution: get 2 or 3 lengths 1" square steel tube (Dexion Speedframe or equivalent), drill 3/16" holes through them every 12" - 18", and screw them to the underside. That'll stiffen it enough. I've got some benches that are made rather like like that, and I can stand on them without them sagging. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 15:14:10 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "RE: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 27, 8:54) References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 8:54, Paul Koning wrote: > I have had a particle board bookshelf come apart. The blame was in > part on incompetent design ("scandinavian design" pretty looking > stuff) -- the shelf was "supported" on a groove milled in the edge. > That means the load was carried on less than half the thickness of the > shelf. Presumably it sagged, and the ends came away from the sides? I've seen that happen. Bad design -- either an inappropriate design for the material, or an inappropraite material for the design, depending on your point of view :-) I think US building rules say that particle board (or its various > analogs, such as OSB -- I still call that particle board) are not > allowed for load bearing applications such as floors. Those must be > plywood. And personally I view any house built with particle board > *anywhere* (even where it's permitted) as cheap construction. > > So I'd say that you should never use particle board to carry loads. Manufacturers of computer room raised floors will disagree with that -- all the high-load ones I've ever coma across are made of particle board (usually with a very thin metal cladding, which is to protect against moisture and impacts, and to provide electrical continuity). Of course, these are 35mm-45mm thick, not 15mm-18mm. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aw288 at osfn.org Thu May 27 15:26:39 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: <200405260808.EAA13784@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > The media are (not "is") _wrong_. All languages change - just accept that "hacker" is basically negative these days, and trying to argue otherwise basically just pisses people off. Myself? I'm rather gay, seeing a 3803 Tape Controller that will soon be mine. Oh, wait, maybe I should just say happy... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dundas at caltech.edu Thu May 27 15:41:44 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] In-Reply-To: <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> Message-ID: I have a complete set and have been meaning to do just this, but have not gotten around to it. When I finally do, I will gladly contribute these to the archive. John At 9:44 PM +0200 5/27/04, Gerold Pauler wrote: >I think archiving ROM images is a very good idea. >I should have done this earlier. > >A few weeks ago my VT100 decided to give up on ROM 2. >So I am looking for an replacement or at least the image of ROM 2. >Even better if someone would have images of all VT100 ROMs. >Part No of my ROM 2 is 23-032E-00. >As of DEC VT100 schematics it should be a 2316. > >TIA > Gerold (pdp8.de) From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu May 27 15:47:28 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: 3.5 inch DSDD diskettes have landed In-Reply-To: <200308131758.h7DHwsZX028314@eola.ao.net> References: <200308131758.h7DHwsZX028314@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040527164713.0c86dec0@pop-server> Do you have any more? At 01:58 PM 8/13/2003, you wrote: >The diskettes are here, so here are the details: > >Certron brand, retail packaged. 10 diskettes per box, with inner plactic >sleeve and labels. Still shrink-wrapped. ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From waisun.chia at hp.com Wed May 26 21:13:56 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> References: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <40B54EE4.1070406@hp.com> Ashley Carder wrote: > I currently have 3 M9312 boards with various ROMs. I will be getting a PDP > 11/34 > tomorrow or Friday and I will be removing the M9312 from it because I need > to send > it back to the person I got the 11/34 from. I'll then install one of my 3 > M9312 boards. > > Of my three M9312s, I will use one in the 11/34 for RL01/02 bootstrap > support. I > am also keeping one (or more) of each type of ROM that I have. Some of the > ROMs on these boards are not marked with a standard DEC number (they appear > to be PROMs that someone made), so I will need to inspect the contents of > the > ROMs once I put the board in the 11/34. After I take inventory, I'll let > you have > (for a small fee, whatever they cost me) a board with the console emulator > ROM > and let you know what other ROMs I have left. > Great! Will wait for you one that.. BTW, just so you know, I'm located in Malaysia. p.s. Out of curiosity, any collectors from Asia? /wai-sun From waisun.chia at hp.com Wed May 26 21:17:36 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B54FC0.8050605@hp.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > > >>Hello list, >>Have been fooling around with my 11/04 and all is great, but problem is I have no 70s peripherals. I only have 80s stuff; i.e. MSCP/RA/DU disks and tapes. >> >>So I'll need boot ROMs which supports RA and DU disks. Because my 11/04 used to be an embedded CNC drill controller, in the place of the regular CPU diagnostic is has a weird proprietary program which tries to initialize some long-gone/dead equipment which used to be connected to the PDP. >> >>In summary, I'm willing to pay a fair/reasonable price for the following M9312 ROMs (unless some one has spares, then I wouldn't mind them free of course :-)): > > ... > > Although I assume we can all check our systems and boards and come > up with all of these, wouldnt it be much nicer (and cheaper) if you > just get the ROM contents as binary files, which you then plug into > an eprom? > Hmm...that's a great idea! * slaps self on the forehead * So anybody out there who has an inventory/collection for boot ROMs.. /wai-sun From pzachary at sasquatch.com Wed May 26 22:53:53 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64301.216.218.236.136.1085630033.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> ... > > Although I assume we can all check our systems and boards and come up > with all of these, wouldnt it be much nicer (and cheaper) if you just > get the ROM contents as binary files, which you then plug into an > eprom? > > --f the binaries are around, but finding a eprom might be tricky. Actually, finding blank roms isn't that bad buy then you have to find a burner that knows what to do with a 4*256device... P_ From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Wed May 26 23:33:31 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim D) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? Message-ID: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> Is it possible to attach ( with a proper connector ) an "isolated" midi device directly to the soundblaster midi joystick iinterface? I don't feel like building a full opto isolated pass through interface for this little keyboard. Just midi in to the computer is OK. BTW, this is on topic, the KB is over 10 yo. Thanks, Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Wed May 26 23:35:42 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim D) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B5701E.5050001@hotmail.com> Davison, Lee wrote: >>Procrastinators Anonymous web site: >> http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/procrastinators.html >> >> > >I'll look later. > >Lee. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ > > > Tomorrow? Jim Davis. From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu May 27 10:31:16 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Booting a PDP-11/04 without drives? In-Reply-To: <1085608084.12717.131.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> <40B509A1.647A76AD@msm.umr.edu> <1085608084.12717.131.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40B609C4.5040700@hp.com> Hello list, Is it possible to boot a 11/04 (16kW core) without any drives? This may just be fantasizing.. 1. Connect a PC to the PDP via the console 2. Have a program (a'la vtserver) serve out a disk image 3. Toggle in a bootstrap loader to load from that virtual disk 4. Jump to start of image Possible? /wai-sun From edward at groenenberg.net Thu May 27 13:45:36 2004 From: edward at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Christine Finn on BBC Radio 4 References: <004501c44417$ee96e6e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <40B63750.73800976@groenenberg.net> Nice story to listen on, and nice terminology ('Computer Heritage Industry') Ed Antonio Carlini wrote: > > If you head over to BBC Radio 4's page and look > for this Monday's "Start the Week" programme, the > 3rd (IIRC) item is Christine Finn discussing > the computer collecting culture in California. > > You can begin here: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml#s > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org -- edward@groenenberg.net | Collector of PDP-11's. http://www.groenenberg.net | Politici zijn vieze oplichters. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is crap. '97 TL1000S From elf at ucsd.edu Thu May 27 15:58:14 2004 From: elf at ucsd.edu (Eric F.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM-3A CRT problem Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040527135814.00bd5860@popmail.ucsd.edu> Hi folks, I've had a Lear Siegler ADM 3A terminal in storage (a closet) for a number of years, and recently went to pull it out. Much to my disappointment, the CRT now has some problems (_physical_ problems, not electronic). When I originally stored it (about 4 years ago), all was well. But now there are bunch of "spots" peppering the outer perimeter of the front of the CRT. These spots are NOT on the surface of the CRT (i.e., it is not a "bubbling" sort of phenomenon), but rather behind the outer glass. Here are some pictures: (approx. 35K each) http://home.san.rr.com/instep/adm3a-crt.jpg http://home.san.rr.com/instep/adm3a-crt1.jpg When I power the terminal up and type some characters, they are all perfectly readable when located away from these spots (i.e., towards the center of the screen). But if the characters are positioned behind these spots, it is as blurry as hell. 1) What's happened to my CRT? Is this symptomatic of a slow air leak? Or is this mold? (it sure looks like it! :-) 2) Can the CRT be fixed/repaired? (my guess is no) 3) If it (the CRT) can't be fixed, does anyone know a source for a new (or used) one? (It is a "Ball Brothers Inc." CRT) Kind regards, Eric From acme at gbronline.com Thu May 27 16:09:40 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: 3.5 inch DSDD diskettes have landed References: <200308131758.h7DHwsZX028314@eola.ao.net> <6.1.0.6.2.20040527164713.0c86dec0@pop-server> Message-ID: <017201c4442f$1b94ba20$cd4f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:47 PM Subject: Re: 3.5 inch DSDD diskettes have landed > Do you have any more? Man, do I wish! I turned all 1500 boxes in about three months. If I ever find any more of them I'll be sure to post a note to the list. Of course, we sell a lot of other useful stuff on our web site ;-) Later -- Glen Goodwin ACME Enterprises of Orlando http://www.acme-sales.net From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu May 27 16:11:10 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040526215127.00890e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> <3.0.6.32.20040526215127.00890e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40B6596E.6050107@gifford.co.uk> Joe R. wrote: > Doesn't the M9312 use Bipolar PROMs? Yes, they are 74S571N, Am27S13 or 82S131N devices (2048 bit). > Does anyone know the part numbers of the blank ones or have a source for > them or a programmer that can program them? I have a programmer that can read and write them, a Stag PPZ with Zm2000 EPROM module. The PROMs are 4 bits wide, which means that the PDP-11's 16-bit words are stored in a somewhat strange manner. In fact, some of the bits are stored inverted, too. The M9312 manual describes it all, though, and I've written some code to un-mangle the data (which seemed to work). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From aek at spies.com Thu May 27 16:31:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: OLD RSTS manual found Message-ID: <200405272131.i4RLVhlf003561@spies.com> If they aren't already in PDF form, why not send the manuuals to Al and have him scan them - he's got a great scanner!! -- PLEASE! esp the V4A sysmgr manual, which is needed to revive the dectapes that were read. I can turn these VERY quickly and would be happy to cover postage both ways. From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu May 27 16:42:44 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found insidea computer? References: <20040526130157.E86151@newshell.lmi.net> <10405270148.ZM25130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <40B53BD4.60500@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <40B660D4.590BD09A@msm.umr.edu> Doc Shipley wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > On May 26, 13:07, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few > > of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and > > found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" > > the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the > > CD-ROM and the floppy. > > I've seen that in 6 or 7 different machines, all from day-care and > kindergarten facilities. I've seen my accountant do it and have now installed a block of plastic to stop him from doing it above or below the drive. (I do his support, he does my taxes and accounting, in case you wonder why I would be inside his computer). Jim From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 27 17:01:19 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> References: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Is it possible to attach ( with a proper connector ) an "isolated" > midi device directly to the soundblaster midi joystick iinterface? I don't think so; one is a voltage-level interface, the other is more like current-loop. (ICBW, of course.) However, if "with a proper connector" is taken sufficiently liberally, the answer is "yes"; there exist interfaces that are built into DA15 shells - you plug the DA15M it into your joystick port, and it breaks things out into three connectors: a DA15F for the joystick (if any) and two MIDI connectors for, well, MIDI. Mine cost me CAD 34.45, TTC, around the middle of last August. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rdd at rddavis.org Thu May 27 17:23:07 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <40B5701E.5050001@hotmail.com> References: <40B5701E.5050001@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20040527222307.GD1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jim D, from writings of Wed, May 26, 2004 at 09:35:42PM -0700: > Davison, Lee wrote: > >>Procrastinators Anonymous web site: > >> http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/procrastinators.html > >I'll look later. > Tomorrow? Sounds kind of quick... why are some people always rushing things? ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From tomj at wps.com Thu May 27 17:18:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1085696318.2362.31.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 19:21, Ashley Carder wrote: > Can an "expert" here provide some proper directions > on how to discharge the anode and capacitors? How > long do these things on a charge? * Immerse the entire unit in a large tub of lightly salted water. Wait for the hissing and crackling noises to subside. * The process goes faster if you unplug the unit first. * Alternatively, you could get a plain screwdriver about 1/8" diameter, 6" long, and a long clip lead. Clip the lead to the screwdriver shaft, and to the metal chassis surrounding the CRT (ground). Rub the tip of the grounded screwdriver on the HV connector (looks like a suction cup) (this will usually leak off some charge in older, dirtier machines), Gently lift the 'suction cup' up and touch the metal connector inside. With the grounded screwdriver tip. You could discharge it with the tip of your tongue but that would be amusing only to onlookers. Remove the connector from the CRT by gently squeezing the omega-shaped connector just enough for it to come out of the recess in the CRT. Note that there are other power supply capacitors that can hold a charge, but they won't cause the CRT to charge up again. A clean CRT and cables can hold a charge for a LONG time, even days or longer. Basically it's a big glass capacitor due to its construction. From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 27 17:28:32 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT52 restoration progress Message-ID: Thanks to the list members who gave me advice on discharging the CRT on the VT52. I have made progress on getting one functional terminal out of two dead ones. By using the VT52 Maintenance manual, I have done some troubleshooting and have one terminal displaying the flashing cursor by doing some board swapping. Now I have to get it to display characters as they are typed on the keyboard. Ashley From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 17:16:35 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] In-Reply-To: Gerold Pauler "VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs]" (May 27, 21:44) References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> Message-ID: <10405272316.ZM26412@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 21:44, Gerold Pauler wrote: > I think archiving ROM images is a very good idea. > I should have done this earlier. > > A few weeks ago my VT100 decided to give up on ROM 2. > So I am looking for an replacement or at least the image of ROM 2. > Even better if someone would have images of all VT100 ROMs. > Part No of my ROM 2 is 23-032E-00. > As of DEC VT100 schematics it should be a 2316. You mean 23-032E2, and it's actually ROM 1 according to my chart. It's at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DECROMs/ along with some others that have been there for quite a long time. Since there seems to be a demand, I'll put some of the rest of my collection there too. For the moment, my list of what all those ROMs are isn't up there, but it's on my ToDo list :-) What I do have is are "I have" and "wanted" lists: Wanted: ====== 23-031E2 VT100 terminal ROM 23-051L1 TQK50 Rev.D1 E3 ROM 23-094E2 VT100 extra chargen 23-095E2 VT100 extra chargen 23-096E2 VT100 extra chargen 23-097E2 VT132 extra chargen 23-098E2 VT132 extra chargen 23-139E2 VT100 terminal board ROM 23-140E2 VT100 terminal board ROM 23-158E4 early KDF11-BE boot ROMs 23-159E4 early KDF11-BE boot ROMs 23-170E5 TQK50 ROMs, rev.1 23-171E5 TQK50 ROMs, rev.1 23-178E5 RQDX2 T-11 code, issue 1 (V10.0D) 23-179E5 RQDX2 T-11 code, issue 1 (V10.0D) 23-180E2 VT132 terminal board ROM 23-180E5 TQK50 ROMs, rev.2 (C1) 23-181E2 VT132 terminal board ROM23-183E2 23-181E5 TQK50 ROMs, rev.2 (C1) 23-183E2 VT132 terminal board ROM23-183E2 23-216E5 RQDX3 T-11 code issue 1 23-217E5 RQDX3 T-11 code issue 1 23-451E4 DELUA ROMs 23-452E4 DELUA ROMs I have: ====== 23-032E2 23-110E6 23-173E5 23-254E6 23-340E2 F311-103 23-033E2 23-111E6 23-183E4 23-261E5 23-340E5 F311-123 23-034E2 23-115E4 23-184E4 23-262E5 23-380E4 MRV11BArom 23-039D1 23-116E4 23-188E5 23-264E4 23-381E4 MXV11A_x0 23-040D1 23-126E4 23-189E5 23-265E4 23-381E6 MXV11A_x1 23-042E5 23-127E4 23-208E5 23-285E5 23-382E6 23-043E5 23-145E4 23-209E5 23-286E5 23-383E5 23-045E2 23-146E4 23-238E4 23-334E5 23-384E5 23-046E2 23-168E5 23-239E4 23-335E5 23-398E4 23-054E7 23-169E5 23-243E5 23-339E2 23-399E4 23-061E2 23-172E5 23-244E5 23-339E5 23-453E6 The F311 images are for a Baydel QBus floppy controller, the MRV11BArom is a fusible-link PROM image, the MXV11A images are from a custom set. These are all 8-bit (or in a very few caes 16-bit) wide ROMs suitable for conventional EPROMs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 17:17:49 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] In-Reply-To: "Antonio Carlini" "RE: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs]" (May 27, 20:50) References: <005001c44423$ce5e57d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <10405272317.ZM26417@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 20:50, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Whoever ends up hosting the archive may want to > consider storing the files by part number name > (e.g. 23-032E-00 for the DEC ROM above, > although I suspect there's a digit missing out > of the middle of that 2-5-2 part number!). That's exactly how I store them :-) > An accompanying index file could spell out > exactly what is what (including version > numbers, where appropriate). > > (Must remember to go off and dig up the few > I have somewhere and contribute them). Yes please :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tomj at wps.com Thu May 27 17:28:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <20040527034048.GA568@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040527032814.BQVA987.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20040527034048.GA568@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1085696930.2362.40.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> > On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 11:27:51PM +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > At science museum once saw a very tickish student girl walk off lexan > > platform by the big sphere HV generator depsite tech's warnings as > > she stepped off a looong 2 feet long arc... That 2 feet long HV arc must be really packing > > of power. Merely in the interests of spawning another near-infinite regress on electron fundamentals... NO, it specifically had VERY LITTLE POWER, though a lotta voltage. P = E * I E= voltage, I= Current Probably as much POWER as a nine-volt battery or two. If it had much more, it would have been an unsafe display, as it's S.K.O.P. (*) to either not see, or ignore, or spite, safety warnings, and kid science museums certainly know that! * Standard Kid Operating Procedure. I speak from experience. (Hammering loaded cartridges 1 ohm 1W resistor on car battery cut plugged-in extention cord w/scissors on a dare (do it quickly) burn worms with 500V 100ft coil wire on car battery fun w/ignition coils fun with Hg fun with molten metals acids gravity 'parachutes' largest anything smallest anything smelliest anything crush vacuum tubes under foot surplus photo chemicals gasoline auto parts tensile strength of treetops...) tomj > > I used to play with those on a regular basis, at COSI, the Science Museum > in Columbus. Ours was surplussed from Oak Ridge, to read the plate at > the bottom. In winter, we could reliably get 8" hot blue sparks, or 3' > wispy sparks. Discharging the ball with your forearm really makes your > fingers jump. Big fun! > > My own Van De Graff generator is much smaller, table-top sized, and has > difficulty with 2" sparks in the winter. :-( > > -ethan From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu May 27 17:31:02 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200405271731.02138.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 27 May 2004 17:01, der Mouse wrote: > > Is it possible to attach ( with a proper connector ) an "isolated" > > midi device directly to the soundblaster midi joystick iinterface? > > I don't think so; one is a voltage-level interface, the other is more > like current-loop. (ICBW, of course.) > > However, if "with a proper connector" is taken sufficiently > liberally, the answer is "yes"; there exist interfaces that are built > into DA15 shells - you plug the DA15M it into your joystick port, and > it breaks things out into three connectors: a DA15F for the joystick > (if any) and two MIDI connectors for, well, MIDI. Mine cost me CAD > 34.45, TTC, around the middle of last August. There's tons of these things on ebay for US$15ish + shipping each. http://search.ebay.com/midi-cable-joystick_W0QQfromZR8QQsokeywordredirectZ1 Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rdd at rddavis.org Thu May 27 17:41:19 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040527224119.GE1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Thu, May 27, 2004 at 06:01:19PM -0400: > two MIDI connectors for, well, MIDI. Mine cost me CAD 34.45, TTC, > around the middle of last August. Hacking together a very simple circuit with an opto-isolator, a few resistors, diodes, etc. costs a lot less. There are several circuits available on the 'net. Just to a search for optoisolator and midi. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cannings at earthlink.net Thu May 27 17:11:05 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope References: Message-ID: <004301c44437$83489a80$6401a8c0@hal9000> Ashley, Lots of good advice in these postings BUT (and it's a BIG but) there seems to be one fundamental item missing from them all. This advice applies to CRTs and high voltage capacitors. Even after you have grounded those suckers and taken the voltage to zero (or close to zero), they are not totally safe to handle. After you remove the ground these bad boys will build up a charge just sitting there! Not a super lot of voltage, but enough to make you "soil" your uniform should you get across it! I would HIGHLY recommend leaving a ground wire to the anode of the CRT (or across a high voltage cap) for the entire time you are messing around with it (with power off of course). I got nailed pretty good once when the "grounded" side of my wire had come loose and the big giant glass capacitor (CRT) had built up a pretty good charge. Working with Tesla coils has given me much respect for high voltage! Have a blast (no pun intended). Best regards, SAC From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu May 27 17:53:37 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope Message-ID: <200405272253.PAA21765@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Jennings" > >> On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 11:27:51PM +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > >> > At science museum once saw a very tickish student girl walk off lexan >> > platform by the big sphere HV generator depsite tech's warnings as >> > she stepped off a looong 2 feet long arc... That 2 feet long HV arc must be really packing >> > of power. > >Merely in the interests of spawning another near-infinite regress on >electron fundamentals... > >NO, it specifically had VERY LITTLE POWER, though a lotta voltage. > > P = E * I > >E= voltage, I= Current > > >Probably as much POWER as a nine-volt battery or two. If it had much >more, it would have been an unsafe display, as it's S.K.O.P. (*) to >either not see, or ignore, or spite, safety warnings, and kid science >museums certainly know that! > Hi There is quite enough energy in a normal 9 volt battery to kill a person. It might need a little conversion but the total amount of energy stored there is quite large. I would suspect that there is several times less energy in the large arc as in a 9 volt battery. The fact is, it is the current that kills. The voltage is only needed to induce the current. Once one has enough current across the heart, it makes little difference what the voltage source was, so long as the current is sustained long enough to do damage. Sure, you might also say that it is the total energy that the heart takes in a given period of time. Still, the voltage is relatively constant across the heart for any given current. One might say there are two stages. One where the current holds the heart long enough to kill and the other where the total energy/time is large enough to damage tissue. Still, dead is dead. As far as discharging CRT, the charge can come back after some time. There are surface charges in the glass that will tend to rebuild the charge after a simple discharge. Don't trust a CRT unless a clip is connected from the second anode to the conductive layer on the back. It ain't gonna kill you from the shock but you might find a lot of glass where you don't want it. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 17:55:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> from "Jim D" at May 26, 4 09:33:31 pm Message-ID: > > Is it possible to attach ( with a proper connector ) an "isolated" midi > device directly to the soundblaster > midi joystick iinterface? I don't feel like building a full opto IIRC, the receiver of the midi interface is the opto-isolated part. It's a current loop with an active transmitter and a passive receiver. In which case you will need to add an opto-isolator, but probably not much else. I would think you could build a much cut-down version of the interface. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 17:57:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <20040527051948.GC1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at May 27, 4 01:19:48 am Message-ID: > Glad to hear that it got you thinking... DEC equipment possibly > crashing through bookcases wouldn't be a pleasant sight. I once had a shelf bracket pull off the wall (the rawlplug wasn't in deep enough...) and one of my HP9100Bs came crashing down on top of a DEC Lanbridge. Needless to say both units survived -- things were made properly back then! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 18:05:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <16565.57980.528000.476245@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 27, 4 08:43:40 am Message-ID: > John> You may or may not hear a snap, or see a small blue flash when > John> you get the tip of the screwdriver close enough to the anode > John> connection - it depends on how well the CRT in the terminal is > John> retaining it's charge. > Please don't do it this way -- without some kind of limiting resistor. When the screwdriver makes contact a high current will flow which (a) can damage the CRT (it can burn the connection between the internal final anode coating and the connector socket) an (b) can induce currents in other parts of the instrument and blow semiconductors all over the place. It's proablt OK to discharge a CRT this way if you're going to throw it out anyway, and if it's removed from the device, but even then I'd not risk it. Use a limiting resistor! > One small point: > > In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from the > metal shaft of the screwdriver. The most natural position for the Considering the shaft is connected to ground through a very low resistance in your set-up, what's the harm in touching it ? > fingers is close to the metal, occasionally slipping right onto it. > That's NOT where you want to be when you're poking around high > voltages. > > There are special "safety" screwdrivers (designed/approved for work in > live mains power systems). Those have shafts that are insulated right > up to the tip. And are often only rated to 1000V. That's enough for working on live mains (which is where I use them), but CRT anodes run at 10-25 times that voltage. > > You could give yourself a little extra safety by wrapping a few layers > of electrician's tape around the top 2-3 inches of the screwdriver I am not sure what the breakdown voltage of insulting tape is (yes, I always call it that!), but it's not that high. I doubt that a layer would stand 10kV (which is what you're asking for here, at least on a colour CRT). -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 18:17:54 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] In-Reply-To: "Antonio Carlini" "RE: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs]" (May 27, 20:50) References: <005001c44423$ce5e57d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <10405280017.ZM26684@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 20:50, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Whoever ends up hosting the archive may want to > consider storing the files by part number name > (e.g. 23-032E-00 for the DEC ROM above, > although I suspect there's a digit missing out > of the middle of that 2-5-2 part number!). Forgot to mention -- mostly I keep my images as binary files, to save space. There are two consequences of this: If you use a broken version of Wndows Netscape to download them, it may insert spurious junk, and You might want to convet them to S-record or Intel HEX. There's the source to a small program to do the latter in http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/IntelHEX/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 18:15:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:53 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <004801c443f7$da799240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at May 27, 4 10:35:26 am Message-ID: > > I do need some definmitions. > > > What about the breaker on the power controller? > > Power controller? Same as a power supply? No, thw power controller is a separate box. It contains a contactor (big relay) and some control circuitry. It has serval mains sockets that you plug your peripherals (disk drives, etc) into, and the 3 pin power control connectors that I mentioned.The idea is that turning on the CPU console switch will then power up all the peripherals too (you can daisy-chain power controllers so that your entire system, no matter how large, comes on at once). > This one has the PSU on the right side with no obvious > switches that I've yet found (maybe I have to change my > definition of obvious). > Breaker as I said is a just a small button, or, > it's hidden under a cover somewhere... more looking. > > > And is this the 5.25" or 10.5" high CPU box? > > 10.5 10.5" box with the PSU on the right? The only 10.5" 11/10 I saw was in the same box as the 11/34 and had the PSU across the back. Oh well... If this is like the 5.25" box with the PSU flat on the right and the cards going in from the left side, then you should have no problems powering it up by connecting the mains cable to mains and frobbing the microswithcs (watch out, one carries mains!). > > > On the power controller there should be a little toggle > > switch. This should be set to 'Remote'. > > Not found (yet). This is one of the oldest PDP's made. > Second model, I believe. Even if you're only considering PDP11s (and there were plenty of machines before those), the 11/20, 11/15 and 11/45 all predate it. > > > Try connecting the CPU mains cable directly to the mains > >(without the power controller)... > > CPU mains cable sounds obvious, but what I have may be 'Mains cable' is what you probably call a 'power cord'... > the power controller cable(?) If you just have the CPU box, you don't need to worry about the power controller connectors > Like I said, please define it for me. > > Yes, I just looked around again with a flashlight, and peering under > the varouus grillworks, stopping just short of removing the PSU cover. > No circuitbreaker-switch. The two three pin ports that I mentioned first > up are located directly in front of a fair sized relay. Will try switching This doesn't sound like any 11/10 I've ever seen.... Hang on. On some early PDP11s (and PDP8s for that matter) the power control bus was wired differently. You have daisy-chain all the units and put jumper plugs in each of the end 2 sockets. Try shorting middle to top on one socket and middle to bottom on the other and see what happens. -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 27 18:36:42 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp Message-ID: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I recently had a discussion with our security advisor at work, about FTP being replaced by HTTP and SCP. Some people would like to replace "insecure" FTP with "modern" services like SCP and HTTP (something along the lines of "we don't do anonymous FTP, stick the file on a web page instead"), and argue that they're safer and there's no loss of functionality. I'm not so sure. For example, FTP understands the difference between a unix-style "stream of bytes" file, and a structured one such as might be found under VMS (or any of several other OSs) -- and can deal with the difference. I don't have an easy way to test this, so I don't know if web browsers or programs like wget can do the right thing, or indeed if servers such as Apache can, or what happens with SCP -- but it occurs to me that it might matter in the context of classic computing. Anyone? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 18:17:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: <004e01c443f7$ecd6cde0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at May 27, 4 10:35:57 am Message-ID: > > In the spirit of the thread: > Wierdest thing found in an item of electronics: > While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the back Why would you want to find one of those? It is my opinion, based on dismantling and repairing many cameras, that Kodak have never made a decent camera. Not one! (and yes, I've worked on Retinas, Retinettes, and Retina Reflexes). > of the truck headed for the dump, I went to said dump and dug > around for a while. Vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes plus charcoal > fires plus time equals shriveled up raisinlike vacuum tubes. Wierd. Presumably the heat of the fire softened the glass and atmospheric pressure caused it to collapse against the vacuum inside. -tony From charlesb at otcgaming.net Thu May 27 18:44:55 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Commodore P500 (European vs. American) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040526221629.02f36908@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <001701c44444$9e398090$0100a8c0@thunder> well I would assume that you would just need the correct power convertor and video convertor for the tv out. Charles 'Thunder' Blackburn Quake3 Co-Lead http://www.tsncentral.com The Leader in the E-Sports Revolution ----- Original Message ----- From: "B.Degnan" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:21 AM Subject: Commodore P500 (European vs. American) > Please .cc billdeg@degnanco.com (thanks) > I have a european Commodore p500 (240/50/PAL). What would be involved if I > wanted to try the unit out in American power/monitor environment? Is it a > matter of swapping chips? I found only spotty info on the internet. I > don't want to take chances. > > From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Thu May 27 18:58:06 2004 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel (GMC)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a > At the other end of the age scale... My pal Fran wondered where a few > of his CDs had gone to, until he opened his PC to change a card, and > found a stack of them. His four-year old son had sometimes "missed" > the CD-ROM drive slot, and inserted the CDs in the gap between the > CD-ROM and the floppy. On the same theme but much older Users. I used to work for a company where we wrote software that retrieved Credit Reports from the Credit Bureaus and also reported info to the same for banks and finance companies. This was back when some were starting to convert over to 3 1/2" drives in their systems. 1). The VP of the lending dept, of a fairly large bank in Delaware, called because he needed new disks sent because the machine ate the 3 5 1/4" disks we sent him with the software, while he was installing it. It kept asking for the next disk and never gave any of them back. He claimed he never received a Disk 2 apparently. All were neatly stacked in the case. 2). Another lady called because the update disk we sent her was defective. We sent her a 5 1/4" Disk and she cut it down to fit in her 3 1/2" drive and stuck it in there. Greg Manuel GM Consulting ==> FREE spam killer: http://eliminatespam.com * FREE PopUp Buster+: http://popupbuster.net * $500 BONUS: http://www.freebonus4you.com/ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 27 18:41:01 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <200405272253.PAA21765@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200405272253.PAA21765@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200405280003.UAA04392@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > One might say there are two stages. One where the current holds the > heart long enough to kill That rarely happens, and cannot happen with a CRT anode - you can cut off blood flow to even the brain (easily the most demanding piece of the body in this regard) for a second or so with no ill effects. (A few seconds and you get unconsciousness; a little bit more and you get brain damage; a bit more and you get death - but something as brief as the few milliseconds that a CRT jolt lasts cannot, in itself, do anything bad due to heart stoppage for the duration of the current.) However - HOWEVER! - it can nevertheless kill, by throwing the heart into fibrillation (basically, instead of beating regularly, the heart starts spasming irregularly, the parts desynchronized from one another and not effective at pumping blood). It doesn't take too much to induce this state, and once induced, it can _easily_ last long enough to kill - indeed, it can be difficult to make it stop. I once read a very interesting article describing sound topological(!!) reasons why there must exist a shock that can throw the heart into arrhythmic action of some kind. Indeed, if I were to get a brief shock in such a way as to run it by my heart, I would prefer to get a large shock than a middling-small one - a large shock is more likely to just change the heart's phase than to throw it into fibrillation. (Of course, I'd still rather get neither!) Note that the defibrillators that emergency medical techs use to kick a misbehaving heart into action again basically just deliver a shock. And of course, getting a jolt of electricity - whether CRT final anode voltage or PSU filter capacitor voltage or mains voltage or what - is a bad idea even if it doesn't go anywhere near your heart; such things induce uncontrolled muscle spasms if they hit motor nerves, and that can be dangerous in its own right.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 27 19:04:02 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405280006.UAA04416@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from the >> metal shaft of the screwdriver. > Considering the shaft is connected to ground through a very low > resistance in your set-up, what's the harm in touching it ? (a) You might knock the alligator clip loose. (b) You or something else might knock the other alligator clip loose. (c) The path, even if intact, is low resistance but not necessarily low impedance; if the current spike can throw enough EMI to kill semiconductors, it can generate enough back EMF to do unpleasant things to people touching the HV end of it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From webhead at theantiquecomputer.com Thu May 27 19:14:26 2004 From: webhead at theantiquecomputer.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <200405270808.JAA20412@citadel.metropolis.local> <10405272120.ZM26036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001f01c44448$c3b3efa0$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning > On May 27, 9:08, Stan Barr wrote: > > > The desk on which my main Mac sits is made of this stuff and is > sagging > > under the weight of the two monitors. That's only a year old. > Needless > > to say it's scheduled for prompt replacement with a steel desk! > > Cheaper solution: get 2 or 3 lengths 1" square steel tube (Dexion > Speedframe or equivalent), drill 3/16" holes through them every 12" - > 18", and screw them to the underside. That'll stiffen it enough. I've > got some benches that are made rather like like that, and I can stand > on them without them sagging. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York You can also use a strip of 1x2 under the front edge, with the 1" edge against the particle board in order for the weight to be put against the grain. Just this will strengthen particle board very well. If you cut your shelf supports about 1" shorter than the shelve, it will sit level with the 1x2 just past the edge of the support. There are, of course, different kinds of particle board. High density does exist and is used by good kitchen manufacturers for shelving. I use cheap stuff but with the 1x2 trick and it works fine. (Really off topic now, I have an article about a very classy floor made of particle board tiles, highly varathaned and polished. I think it was 1.25 a square foot total. ) bm From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu May 27 17:18:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> So I'd say that you should never use particle board to carry loads. > Manufacturers of computer room raised floors will disagree with that > -- all the high-load ones I've ever coma across are made of particle > board (usually with a very thin metal cladding, which is to protect > against moisture and impacts, and to provide electrical continuity). > Of course, these are 35mm-45mm thick, not 15mm-18mm. They also are supported around the whole edge of a two-foot-square square. If those shelves were supported every two feet - especially if they used that kind of thickness - I bet they'd still be just fine. >From an engineering perspective, I'd say that particleboard is fine for carrying loads in the right circumstances, but it is incumbent upon the designer to know what those circumstances are and design accordingly. Building codes (which were cited in support of the notion) tend to be conservative, and (especially given the likely blind substitution of particleboard for plywood) I'm not surprised they take the tack described. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu May 27 19:38:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <40B6596E.6050107@gifford.co.uk> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526215127.00890e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040526094306.B7023790046@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <007c01c44358$93026fd0$99100f14@mcothran1> <3.0.6.32.20040526215127.00890e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040527203806.008d7100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:11 PM 5/27/04 +0100, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: >> Doesn't the M9312 use Bipolar PROMs? > >Yes, they are 74S571N, Am27S13 or 82S131N devices (2048 bit). > >> Does anyone know the part numbers of the blank ones or have a source for >> them or a programmer that can program them? > >I have a programmer that can read and write them, a Stag PPZ with >Zm2000 EPROM module. Cool! I have the same programmer and I thought it would program them but I wasn't sure. My Pro-Log programmer will program too but you have to have different plug-ins for the different brand parts. Joe The PROMs are 4 bits wide, which means that >the PDP-11's 16-bit words are stored in a somewhat strange manner. >In fact, some of the bits are stored inverted, too. The M9312 >manual describes it all, though, and I've written some code to >un-mangle the data (which seemed to work). > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 27 20:52:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: OT: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040527181618.I26568@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 28 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the back > Why would you want to find one of those? It is my opinion, based on > dismantling and repairing many cameras, that Kodak have never made a > decent camera. Not one! (and yes, I've worked on Retinas, Retinettes, and > Retina Reflexes). While I agree with you about the Retin*, it's a little like saying that IBM never made a decent computer. I have a fairly decent cherry, mahogany? and leather 8x10" view camera made by Kodak. (actually apparently continued production under Kodak name by companies swallowed up by Kodak (the MICROS~1 of the early 20th century) If you're willing to wade into WWW: http://www.fiberq.com/cam/ekc.htm http://www.geh.org/fm/toronto/htmlsrc/mE13000111_ful.html Mine is one of the earlier ones (Century 1920s? 2D), and could use some substantial restoration work (such as replacing the bellows that I have a dozen patches on, and finding original lens and lens boards instead of what I'm using) They made it until about 1950!, when they switched to the "Master View" which has an alloy body, which they made through most of the 1950s. http://www3.sympatico.ca/doug.lavender/photography/kmv/kmv-specs.html -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wacarder at usit.net Thu May 27 21:40:47 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: VT52s wanted Message-ID: Does anyone have any dead DEC VT52 terminals they would like to donate to my cause? All clues are now pointing to a bad RUT module on *BOTH* of my VT52s. One RUT module causes the CRT to do random things. The other one, which is much more well behaved, lets me get the flashing cursor that I should get, but no keyboard input is displayed and there are no keyclicks. I suppose I could go through the individual components of the RUT board one by one and replace them to see if I can get anything to happen. Before I do that, I am going to do some more research. Back to studying the detailed technical documentation in the VT52 Maintenance Manual. Ashley From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Thu May 27 21:57:32 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Chicago test equipment sale Message-ID: <000001c4445f$85d46e50$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> This was a great sale - luckily Dan V made sure I didn't have to worry about starting a collection of HP desktops - given my packrat tendencies, smaller is definitely better! Here's what I brought home - - MMD-2 Microcomputer Design set - pretty sure Jon Titus was _not_ involved with this model, but I'm looking forward to talking to him about it at VCF-East - 4 HP 1611A Logic State Analyzers, each with a different interface option - Z80, 6800, 6502 and "generic" - box of HP 1630 Logic Analyzer General Purpose Interfaces (6 10269A, 3 10269B), all with the 6809/6809E personality card and half of them with 6809 chips still in place - F8 microprocessor probe (HP p/n 01611-62104) - box of 14 early 1970's Data I/O Programmer interface cards (1702/2102 vintage) - Xerox 2700 PAR-EBCDIC 64K cartridge (p/n 9R22283 101S04653) - 2 shrink wrapped boxes of 8" Wabash disks - boxed copy of Lotus 123 - big box of '70s dated ICs, transistors, caps, ferrite beads, trim pots, resistors, etc. - many Motorola parts (much of the equipt was ex-Moto) What I missed - what Dan got and a Pachinko game. It was great to meet Dan and chat; I missed him in Dayton, but hooked up with Dan Cohoe there, another good guy. If anybody is interested in the F8 probe or Xerox cartridge, they're yours for the shipping cost (both are small). I'd like to get $10 each for the HP 10269x/6809 interfaces - I'll put them on VCF if noone here is interested. Jack From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 22:49:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a In-Reply-To: from "G Manuel \" at May 27, 4 07:58:06 pm Message-ID: > 2). Another lady called because the update disk we sent her was defective. > We sent her a 5 1/4" Disk and she cut it down to fit in her 3 1/2" drive and > stuck it in there. About 20 years ago, some machines over here used 3" (not 3.5") disks. The drives were cheap, but the disks were more expensive than the 3.5" type. Anyway, I hought one of the drives and used it as a second drive on my OS-9 box (a much hacked CoCo II). One day I needed some more disks. I went to the computer shop to buy some and asked for 3" disks. I was told "Oh, we don't have any 3" disks. We've got 3.5" disks, can you cut them down". I was then offered 3" disks at the 3.5" disk price. Needless to say I bought rather a lot of them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 23:00:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: OT: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: <20040527181618.I26568@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at May 27, 4 06:52:01 pm Message-ID: > > On Fri, 28 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the back > > Why would you want to find one of those? It is my opinion, based on > > dismantling and repairing many cameras, that Kodak have never made a > > decent camera. Not one! (and yes, I've worked on Retinas, Retinettes, and > > Retina Reflexes). > > While I agree with you about the Retin*, I don't blame you :-). An example. The Retina Reflex is very similar inside to the Voigtlander Bessamatic. One of the main differences is the exposure meter coupling. On the Voigtlander it's a train of brass gears. On the Kodak it's a loop of string (and you can't install the string with the front assembly in place, you can't install the string without the exposure meter in place, but it would be a lot easier to install the front assemnly before the meter. Hmmm..) > it's a little like saying that IBM never made a decent computer. You mean IBM did make a decent computer??? (only joking :-)) > I have a fairly decent cherry, mahogany? and leather 8x10" view > camera made by Kodak. (actually apparently continued production Yes, OK. And IIRC Graflex are actually part of Kodak, and their stuff isn't too bad (although I prefer my 4 MPPs...) > under Kodak name by companies swallowed up by Kodak (the MICROS~1 > of the early 20th century) > > If you're willing to wade into WWW: > http://www.fiberq.com/cam/ekc.htm > http://www.geh.org/fm/toronto/htmlsrc/mE13000111_ful.html > > Mine is one of the earlier ones (Century 1920s? 2D), and could > use some substantial restoration work (such as replacing the > bellows that I have a dozen patches on, and finding original Totally off-topic, but for camera / repairs in the UK, I'll recomend 'The Camera Bellows Company' in Birmingham. They can make just about any bellows, and are not that expensive (around \pounds 50 for a bellows for the MPP 5*4 camera). And they're pleasant to deal with, which counts for a lot! > lens and lens boards instead of what I'm using) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 23:03:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: VT52s wanted In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at May 27, 4 10:40:47 pm Message-ID: > > Does anyone have any dead DEC VT52 terminals they would like to donate to my > cause? All clues are now pointing to a bad RUT module on *BOTH* of my > VT52s. > One RUT module causes the CRT to do random things. The other one, which is > much more well behaved, lets me get the flashing cursor that I should get, > but no keyboard input is displayed and there are no keyclicks. I suppose I > could go through the individual components of the RUT board one by one and Might I suggest a better aproach would be to stop replacing parts and to do some troubleshooting. I assume the printset is available (I've never looked, I have an original on paper). And from what I remmeber it's not that complicated, virtually all simple TTL chips. So figure out what it's doing, and why it's doing it. -tony From aek at spies.com Thu May 27 23:25:48 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Digitizing Datapoint 2200 cassettes Message-ID: <200405280425.i4S4PmKE022628@spies.com> I received a non-working (anyone have the service manual?) 2200 this past week with 15 cassettes and some manuals. The manuals are now up on Bitsavers, and I tried digitizing the cassettes using the audio input on one of my macs. Looks like it should be decodable in software even though it's slowed down from the normal 7 1/2 ips tape speed. If anyone has any other tapes, I'd be VERY interested in trying to decode the data from them, and also scanning any other manuals that might be available. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 00:26:02 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM-3A CRT problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040527135814.00bd5860@popmail.ucsd.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20040527135814.00bd5860@popmail.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <200405280534.BAA15503@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > [...] Lear Siegler ADM 3A [...] > When I originally stored it (about 4 years ago), all was well. But > now there are bunch of "spots" peppering the outer perimeter of the > front of the CRT. These spots are NOT on the surface of the CRT > (i.e., it is not a "bubbling" sort of phenomenon), but rather behind > the outer glass. Based on the picture, I would guess this is the problem that's been discussed on-list in the past, where something glued to the front of the CRT develops problems. But that's just a guess, and a rather uninformed one at that; I'll let those who actually know the problem speak to that. > 1) What's happened to my CRT? Is this symptomatic of a slow air > leak? No; that is so unlikely that I wouldn't even consider it, and it doesn't fit the symptoms anyway. The vacuum inside a CRT has to be a pretty hard vacuum, and even the slowest ordinary leak will completely ruin it in no time flat. In principle it may be possible to have a leak slow enough that it still mostly works after some years - but it wouldn't affect some areas of the screen and not others; gas in the tube will affect the whole screen, because it will interfere with electron flight everywhere. > 2) Can the CRT be fixed/repaired? (my guess is no) If it's the problem I refer to above, it can be fixed, but it's not trivial. Again, I'll let people familiar with the problem speak, if they think it might be what's wrong with your 3A. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 00:34:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <20040527224119.GE1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040527224119.GE1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200405280538.BAA15527@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...joystick port MIDI converter...] Mine cost me CAD 34.45, TTC, >> around the middle of last August. > Hacking together a very simple circuit with an opto-isolator, a few > resistors, diodes, etc. costs a lot less. There are several circuits > available on the 'net. Sure, and I imagine I could design one myself easily enough - I know _that_ much about electronics. But I don't have any suitable optoisolators on hand (I found only one, and its output device was a mains-voltage triac), and the hassle factor of obtaining some was enough to outweigh the extra dollars the pre-made adapter cost me. Besides, by the time you add in mounting and housing, the cost for the homebrew has probably at least doubled, in money and time both. (Granted, its hack value would have been significantly higher that way.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Fri May 28 00:45:57 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> <10405272316.ZM26412@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <40B6D215.9050006@gmx.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 27, 21:44, Gerold Pauler wrote: > >>I think archiving ROM images is a very good idea. >>I should have done this earlier. >> >>A few weeks ago my VT100 decided to give up on ROM 2. >>So I am looking for an replacement or at least the image of ROM 2. >>Even better if someone would have images of all VT100 ROMs. >>Part No of my ROM 2 is 23-032E-00. >>As of DEC VT100 schematics it should be a 2316. > > > You mean 23-032E2, Yes!!! - lazy fingers don't want to type what I'm thinking ;-) and it's actually ROM 1 according to my chart. It's > at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DECROMs/ along with some > others that have been there for quite a long time. > Thanks, that is exactly what I am looking for. But according to DECs VT100 Technical Manual it is ROM 2, ROM 1 is the 23-031E2 or 23-061E2. May be it's because they are counting from 1 not from 0. But nevertheless wonderful resource. Thanks again Gerold (pdp8.de) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 28 00:50:33 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Extracting files from TPC RSTS/E Tape image? Message-ID: I've got some RSTS/E backups that have been converted to TPC format tape images, and I'd like to extract the files to a Unix system. Are there any tools to do this? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 00:58:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Help identifying AppleII cards? In-Reply-To: <200405271908.i4RJ8hhc012683@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > #1 ISAAC INTERFACE BOARD D91A-8318 REVC > Copyright 1981 by CYBORG CORP > Large format card (large enough to slope down at front) > Has an 6522 on it. > Also has an external battery box that plugs into a small barrel > jack at the front of the card. > Has 6 pin terminal strip, plus two 34 pin ribbon cable headers. > Small 4-position DIP switch at front, 8-position DIP switch farther > back (under terminal strip). No idea, but it sounds like whatever hooked up to it was pretty cool :) > #2 No markings at all. > Smaller card, slightly longer than Apple disk controller. > Has a 20 pin header sticking out the back of the card. > Has an RCA 1802 CPU on it! > 2 2k EPROMS > 1 6 position DIP switch. Damn, two really cool cards in one //e! Again, no idea. Have you gone into the monitor and dumped the ROM address space for each card to see if there are any clues there? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Fri May 28 01:34:18 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Help identifying AppleII cards? Message-ID: <200405280634.i4S6YIjU015266@spies.com> > #1 ISAAC INTERFACE BOARD D91A-8318 REVC > Copyright 1981 by CYBORG CORP Eric Smith is looking for one of these to go with the ISAAC that I found for him a few weeks ago.. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 28 02:09:28 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs] In-Reply-To: Gerold Pauler "Re: VT100 ROM 2 wanted [Was: Wanted: M9312 ROMs]" (May 28, 7:45) References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> <40B64534.6020909@gmx.net> <10405272316.ZM26412@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <40B6D215.9050006@gmx.net> Message-ID: <10405280809.ZM27103@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 28, 7:45, Gerold Pauler wrote: > Thanks, that is exactly what I am looking for. > But according to DECs VT100 Technical Manual it is ROM 2, > ROM 1 is the 23-031E2 or 23-061E2. > May be it's because they are counting from 1 not from 0. Ah, the chart I copied started at zero. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 28 02:02:31 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: der Mouse "Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 27, 18:18) References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 18:18, der Mouse wrote: > >> So I'd say that you should never use particle board to carry loads. > > Manufacturers of computer room raised floors will disagree with that > > -- all the high-load ones I've ever coma across are made of particle > > board (usually with a very thin metal cladding, which is to protect > > against moisture and impacts, and to provide electrical continuity). > > Of course, these are 35mm-45mm thick, not 15mm-18mm. > > They also are supported around the whole edge of a two-foot-square > square. Eh? They're supported at the corners only. Some do have metal cladding round the edges, but it's not very strong. > If those shelves were supported every two feet - especially if > they used that kind of thickness - I bet they'd still be just fine. > > >From an engineering perspective, I'd say that particleboard is fine for > carrying loads in the right circumstances, but it is incumbent upon the > designer to know what those circumstances are and design accordingly. Agreed. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From family.entwisle at btinternet.com Fri May 28 03:17:38 2004 From: family.entwisle at btinternet.com (Duncan Entwisle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Heads Up: VMS V5.5 Manuals on Ebay in UK Message-ID: <7B2FF973-B07F-11D8-A388-00039358EE78@btinternet.com> Annoyingly I have no space for these (not even temporarily). They're less than 30 miles from where I live - I wonder what over goodies they have :-( http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=67855&item=4133816051&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW "40 original digital (dec) vms v5.5 operating system/progrsmming/developing manuals" (Hopefully someone will tell me that they're all available as pdfs on the net... but I doubt it.) Cheers, Duncan. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 28 03:39:07 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 28 May 2004 00:36:42 +0100 (BST) Pete Turnbull wrote: > I recently had a discussion with our security advisor at work, about > FTP being replaced by HTTP and SCP. [...] > For example, FTP understands the > difference between a unix-style "stream of bytes" file, and a > structured one such as might be found under VMS (or any of several > other OSs) -- and can deal with the difference. You are refering to "binary" versus "ascii" mode in ftp? http can do the same. It is possible to specify encodings, charsets, ... in the http headers. This way a http client is able to e.g. transcode charsets of textfiles during reception. scp allways copys files verbatim. (AFAIK) The problem may be that ftp uses a "strange" way to handle connections. You have one TCP stream for control and an other for data. Depending on active or passive ftp the data connection is opened from the server to the client or vice versa. (IIRC) If you have to admin a firewall for a ftp server this can be a nightmare and possibly result in weaker firewall rules. http uses only a TCP connection from the client to the server on port 80. So you can secure a http server quite good by "allow everything to server-IP port 80; allow everything from server-IP port 80; deny everything else" (or "allow everything to server-IP port 80 keep state; deny everything else") quite easyly. An other issue may be that ftp allways transferes clear text passwords. http does the same, but you can use https (http with SSL/TLS encryption). There is a SSL variant of ftp, but I know of no client or server that supports it. All http clients support https. You can do SSL client certificate based authentification with most https clients and servers as well... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 03:40:10 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>>> [...] you should never use particle board to carry loads. >>> Manufacturers of computer room raised floors will disagree [...] >> They also are supported around the whole edge of a two-foot-square >> square. > Eh? They're supported at the corners only. Some do have metal > cladding round the edges, but it's not very strong. I suppose the ones I am familiar with from the one job I've worked at that used them are atypical, then. They were supported by a network of metal (steel, presumably) braces which in turn were supported by small pillars to the floor where the braces met (which was under the corners of the tiles). The tiles themselves were _heavy_ and definitely had metal covering the bottom and edges; the top was metal too, but had something over the metal, something a bit like linoleum, or perhaps melamine. I'm quite sure of the metal on all six sides; a few tiles had cuts in them to allow (eg) cables to pass, so I got to see their cross-section. I know how heavy they were, too; I once dropped one I was holding up by one edge - and caught my finger between its edge and the edge of the one already in place next to it. It caught the nail part, and my first thought was I might lose the nail (at least temporarily). Fortunately I didn't; I ran cold water over it until it began to hurt from the cold instead of the drop (probably chilled the end of the finger substantially below its normal temperature), and after throbbing slightly intermittently for the rest of the day, it never bothered me again. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu May 27 16:48:55 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40B5073C.2020902@mich.com> Message-ID: <000b01c44490$a7c1eca0$bb72fea9@geoff> OK, but how did he get the cups in there ? :^) Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mabry" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? > Well, Joe, this may not be all that unique. But couple it with the > computer involved and I'll bet it is unusual, to say the least. > > I had an Intel Intellec 800 on the floor of my basement. A finished > basement before someone scolds me for relegating such a piece of history > to a musty old basement. I also had a dog that ate Iams dry food. One > day as I was moving things around I heard a funny sound inside the > Intellec 800. When I opened it up I found several cups of the dry dog > food. Seems a mouse had been stealing the food from the dog's dish and > hiding it in the Intellec 800. But the Intel machine was all closed up. > The only way I could see that the mouse could get in was through the > cooling fan on the back of the machine. > > After cleaning it out the MDS 800 still worked fine. > > Dave > > Joe R. wrote: > > > I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found > > a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a > > HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in > > handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, > > connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest > > thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of > > electronics gear. > > > > Joe > > > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 03:53:33 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> For example, FTP understands the difference between a unix-style >> "stream of bytes" file, and a structured one such as might be found >> under VMS (or any of several other OSs) -- and can deal with the >> difference. > You are refering to "binary" versus "ascii" mode in ftp? Well, I didn't write it, but I do know something about FTP - for example, I've read its defining RFC, which appears to be more than you bothered to do. Yes, ASCII text versus something else[%] is one of the simplest of the ways in which FTP does as described; it can do more, too (a lot more). If you care what FTP can do, there is really no substitute for reading RFC 959; for these purposes, I recommend you start with section 3.1. [%] The something else is often called "binary" by clients, but there is no such thing in the protocol. When told to use "binary", I have seen (depending on the client) "TYPE I" and "TYPE L 8"; which is more appropriate depends on what you really mean by "binary". > http can do the same. It is possible to specify encodings, charsets, > ... in the http headers. HTTP can do the same only to a point. For example, FTP recognizes three types of file structure, only one of which is an even moderately close match to an HTTP data stream. Quoting from RFC 959 section 3.1.2: In addition to different representation types, FTP allows the structure of a file to be specified. Three file structures are defined in FTP: file-structure, where there is no internal structure and the file is considered to be a continuous sequence of data bytes, record-structure, where the file is made up of sequential records, and page-structure, where the file is made up of independent indexed pages. > The problem may be that ftp uses a "strange" way to handle > connections. You have one TCP stream for control and an other for > data. Nothing strange about it; this is really the only sensible thing to do when you want to be able to abort a transfer cleanly (something HTTP doesn't bother to even try to do). HTTP also offers nothing like REST or the various other filesystem manipulation commands like ACCT, CWD, CDUP, SMNT, STOU, APPE, RNFR, RNTO, DELE, RMD, MKD, PWD, LIST, NLST...indeed HTTP doesn't really offer file transfer at all - it's just common for a request to be satisfied by serving up a copy of a file, and this is (ab)used as a file-transfer mechanism. > Depending on active or passive ftp the data connection is opened from > the server to the client or vice versa. (IIRC) You do. (Recall correctly, that is.) > http uses only a TCP connection from the client to the server on port > 80. Not necessarily; it can use any port - 80 just happens to be the default. > An other issue may be that ftp allways transferes clear text > passwords. If you think this you need to read RFC 2228 and to some extent 2773; for the moment, just read my response to the next quote. > http does the same, but you can use https (http with SSL/TLS > encryption). There is a SSL variant of ftp, but I know of no client > or server that supports it. I can only assume you haven't bothered to look. One googling (FTP SSL client) turned up what looks lke a whole bunch of them; I followed the first of the returned link and the page I found claims at least 40 client and 28 server implementations that support AUTH (which doesn't necessarily mean SSL, but does mean something better than cleartext reusable passwords). It also lists 45 FTP clients that (it says) support one of the three forms of SSL-secured FTP it outlines, so presumably the counts are out of date. > All http clients support https. This is false. I, for example, run lynx, and on two separate occasions I have looked into convincing it to support SSL; in each case, I got about four levels deep in tools-to-build-the-tools before running into a requirement for something ridiculously heavyweight - perl, I think - and abandoning the attempt. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri May 28 03:16:51 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 2004 21:20:42 BST." <10405272120.ZM26036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200405280816.JAA01144@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Pete Turnbull said: > On May 27, 9:08, Stan Barr wrote: > > > The desk on which my main Mac sits is made of this stuff and is > sagging > > under the weight of the two monitors. That's only a year old. > Needless > > to say it's scheduled for prompt replacement with a steel desk! > > Cheaper solution: get 2 or 3 lengths 1" square steel tube (Dexion > Speedframe or equivalent), drill 3/16" holes through them every 12" - > 18", and screw them to the underside. That'll stiffen it enough. I've > got some benches that are made rather like like that, and I can stand > on them without them sagging. I did think of doing something like that, but I've been offered a steel desk. The old one will be moved to lighter duties elsewhere - I have computers all over the house - doesn't everyone? (OK, I don't have computers in the kitchen and bathroom, but give me time...) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri May 28 03:53:50 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: OT: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 2004 18:52:01 PDT." <20040527181618.I26568@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200405280853.JAA01570@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Fred Cisin said; > On Fri, 28 May 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the back > > Why would you want to find one of those? It is my opinion, based on > > dismantling and repairing many cameras, that Kodak have never made a > > decent camera. Not one! (and yes, I've worked on Retinas, Retinettes, and > > Retina Reflexes). > > While I agree with you about the Retin*, But what about the Ektra? Has anyone actually seen one? They were extremely expensive new. (Flavour of the month chez moi is pinhole cameras - I've been out and about with my 10x8 box camera - an antidote to digital!) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri May 28 05:39:13 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1085740752.3081.37.camel@weka.localdomain> Bottom line to me is that HTTP is a pretty heavyweight and bloated protocol, whereas FTP is a lot cleaner. So for raw data transfer I'd always prefer an FTP server. Password security is an issue because it's perhaps not as good as HTTPS - but then with HTTPS aren't we getting into pay-through-the-nose server certificate territory? And it's certainly no worse than HTTP. Of course it depends on your actual intended setup anyway - if on a LAN or over a VPN then plain-text password transfer may be less of an issue, or maybe anonymous FTP access is fine for a particular situation anyway. It's worth thinking about what may be between your clients and servers too. HTTP data is much more likely to be transparently cached somewhere along the line (which may have security implications), but the flipside is that port 80 is generally less likely to be blocked than port 21 for ftp. My memory's hazy here - I wrote both an FTP client and server a few years ago for a particular project - but I seem to remember that there are essentially two methods of file transfer for FTP - one where the server makes the data connection back to the client (which from a server's point of view is more secure) and one where the server tells the client what port to connect to for a transfer and the client then opens a connection to that port on the server. The latter method really messes up firewalls :) Determining file type etc. is pretty much a non-issue I'd say; it's a higher level server function than the raw protocol, so it shouldn't affect file transfer and only dictate what the server ultimately does with the file. > HTTP also offers nothing like REST REST is fantastic for FTP and was historically a big reason why I hated HTTP servers for file transfer over FTP. However, not all FTP servers always support it which is a shame. HTTP does support restarts, at least in a lot of later incarnations - I think the problem's more that a lot of common browsers typically weren't smart enough to cope with it. I've used wget to do restarts when transferring data from HTTP servers before though. > manipulation commands like ACCT, CWD, CDUP, SMNT, STOU, APPE, RNFR, > RNTO, DELE, RMD, MKD, PWD, LIST, NLST... Agreed - and there are some nice FTP clients out there if your users aren't into typing stuff on the commandline (Aside - I don't believe that the FTP protocol defines passing wildcards to the DELE command, and neither is there any form of 'MDEL' for multiple deletes, and RMD doesn't allow deleteing a directory unless it's empty. Deleting lots of files without a graphical client can be a pain!) > indeed HTTP doesn't really offer file transfer at all - I'm actually very anti-HTTP to be honest. Great for what it was originally intended for, but it really bugs me the way current view is "the Web is the Internet" and unless something can be hacked to run over HTTP then it isn't worth doing. > it's just common for a request to be > satisfied by serving up a copy of a file, and this is (ab)used as a > file-transfer mechanism. Upload's even more of a mess from what I remember, requiring something at the server end (be it Perl, compiled CGI, Java or whatever) to handle and save the incoming data stream - i.e. there's no standard for actually saving an upload to the filestore. Similarly, if you do want to administer files behind a web server then the solution is going to be localised as there's no standard for that either. You may even have encoding issues when uploading a file, and we've all come across problems with referencing files by HTTP due to the protocol not allowing certain characters and some servers handling illegal characters differently to others. scp? Never used it. How portable is it to different platforms? cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri May 28 05:42:28 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 08:40, der Mouse wrote: > I suppose the ones I am familiar with from the one job I've worked at > that used them are atypical, then. They were supported by a network of > metal (steel, presumably) braces which in turn were supported by small > pillars to the floor where the braces met (which was under the corners > of the tiles). I've worked in an office which had those too, so you're not alone. They were very tight fitting too, and needed a couple of big suction-cups to lift them up. They could take one hell of a weight though. In my case the building probably dated from around 1980. cheers Jules From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 28 06:03:08 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: VT52s wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yep, That was my plan. I've never done that kind of thing before, but I'm ready to try. You're right, the boards don't look very complicated. How big is the printset that you have? - Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:03 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VT52s wanted > > Does anyone have any dead DEC VT52 terminals they would like to donate to my > cause? All clues are now pointing to a bad RUT module on *BOTH* of my > VT52s. > One RUT module causes the CRT to do random things. The other one, which is > much more well behaved, lets me get the flashing cursor that I should get, > but no keyboard input is displayed and there are no keyclicks. I suppose I > could go through the individual components of the RUT board one by one and Might I suggest a better aproach would be to stop replacing parts and to do some troubleshooting. I assume the printset is available (I've never looked, I have an original on paper). And from what I remmeber it's not that complicated, virtually all simple TTL chips. So figure out what it's doing, and why it's doing it. -tony From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 28 06:30:05 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040528113005.GA21902@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 04:53:33AM -0400, der Mouse wrote: > Well, I didn't write it, but I do know something about FTP - for > example, I've read its defining RFC, which appears to be more than you > bothered to do. Yes. I didn't read the RFC. ENOTIME, ENOPATIENCE. > For example, FTP recognizes three types of file structure, only one of > which is an even moderately close match to an HTTP data stream. Well. FTP was developed at a time when there were only a few hosts on the ARPAnet. Its roots are even older then TCP. Hosts with 36 bit architecture and "9 bit bytes" like the PDP-10 (DECsystem-[12]) running TOPS-[12]0 or whatever. So sometimes FTP needed to do a lot of translation to get the file properties of one system maped to the file properties of an other system. Today all the world is a 8/16/32/64 bit machine with 8 bit bytes and flat files. As we are talking about HTTP, we are talking only about this "modern" machines. > > The problem may be that ftp uses a "strange" way to handle > > connections. You have one TCP stream for control and an other for > > data. > Nothing strange about it; this is really the only sensible thing to do > when you want to be able to abort a transfer cleanly (something HTTP > doesn't bother to even try to do). With HTTP all you can do is close the socket. An other difference between FTP and HTTP is important in this case: FTP is session oriented, HTTP not. So with FTP you need somthing to identify and controll the session (one TCP stream) and somthing else to transfer the data (an other TCP stream). With HTTP you request some data and get an answer. That is all the protocol provides. (simplified) > HTTP also offers nothing like REST [...] Well, a Hyper Text Transfer Protocol is no File Transfer Protocol, but it can be (ab)used to accomplish the same purpose in most cases: Transport data from machine A to machine B. I know that FTP can do more then only file transfer. Maybe we could call it more like File Transfer and Remote File Manipulation Protocol. > > http uses only a TCP connection from the client to the server on port > > 80. > Not necessarily; it can use any port - 80 just happens to be the > default. I am very aware of this. I omited this to keep the answer short and simple. I think most readers of this list are aware that you can run any service on any port, not only the default port. > > An other issue may be that ftp allways transferes clear text > > passwords. > If you think this you need to read RFC 2228 and to some extent 2773; > for the moment, just read my response to the next quote. What FTP can do in theory is one thing. What it is used for and how in practice is an other thing. I mostly refered to the actual use of FTP. > > http does the same, but you can use https (http with SSL/TLS > > encryption). There is a SSL variant of ftp, but I know of no client > > or server that supports it. > I can only assume you haven't bothered to look. Yes. ENOTIME. > One googling (FTP SSL > client) turned up what looks lke a whole bunch of them; Well, if there are clients and servers is one thing. But is it used in practice? I was refering more to actual use of ftps. (Much like telnets. It exists, but everyone is using ssh.) I am using FTP and the Internet for more then 10 years now, but never came acros ftps beside its entry in /etc/services. > > All http clients support https. > This is false. OK. Nearly all. The /usr/bin/ftp of NetBSD is also a simple http client and it doesn't support https. (At least it doesn't link the required libraries and the man page talks only about http.) > I, for example, run lynx, and on two separate occasions > I have looked into convincing it to support SSL; $ uname -rs NetBSD 1.6.1_STABLE $ grep -i ssl /usr/src/pkgsrc/www/lynx/Makefile # With SSL, lynx can get https:// and snews:// URL's. CONFIGURE_ARGS+= --with-ssl .include "../../security/openssl/buildlink3.mk" $ ldd /usr/pkg/bin/lynx /usr/pkg/bin/lynx: -lz.0 => /usr/lib/libz.so.0 -lcurses.5 => /usr/lib/libcurses.so.5 -lssl.2 => /usr/lib/libssl.so.2 -lcrypto.1 => /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.1 -lintl.0 => /usr/lib/libintl.so.0 -lc.12 => /usr/lib/libc.so.12 -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 28 07:21:54 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <1085740752.3081.37.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740752.3081.37.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040528122154.GB21902@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 10:39:13AM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > Bottom line to me is that HTTP is a pretty heavyweight and bloated > protocol, whereas FTP is a lot cleaner. So for raw data transfer I'd > always prefer an FTP server. Well, HTTP has a lot of options. But the basic protocol is quite simple. It is no problem to send a HTTP request to a HTTP server with telnet. There are HTTP server written in Bourne shell script and ... > Password security is an issue because it's perhaps not as good as HTTPS > - but then with HTTPS aren't we getting into pay-through-the-nose server > certificate territory? What is the problem with certificates? You can generate a self signed certificate yourself. > It's worth thinking about what may be between your clients and servers > too. HTTP data is much more likely to be transparently cached somewhere > along the line (which may have security implications), SSL can prevent this. > one where the server tells > the client what port to connect to for a transfer and the client then > opens a connection to that port on the server. The latter method really > messes up firewalls :) Yes. There are firewalls that can do statefull filtering. They listen to the FTP controll stream, filter out what ports need to be opend and let data through. This is really ugly. > REST is fantastic for FTP and was historically a big reason why I hated > HTTP servers for file transfer over FTP. However, not all FTP servers > always support it which is a shame. I was bitten by this servers too... > I'm actually very anti-HTTP to be honest. Great for what it was > originally intended for, but it really bugs me the way current view is > "the Web is the Internet" and unless something can be hacked to run over > HTTP then it isn't worth doing. Agreed. One size doesn't fit all. Diferent tasks - different tools. > Upload's even more of a mess from what I remember, requiring something > at the server end (be it Perl, compiled CGI, Java or whatever) to handle > and save the incoming data stream - i.e. there's no standard for > actually saving an upload to the filestore. Because the PUT and DELETE methods are not used / implemented. > scp? Never used it. How portable is it to different platforms? I don't know how portable a protocol specification is. ;-) But there are implementations at least for Unix (like) OSes and M$Win. The problem with scp is that it makes heavy use of crypto algorithms that you usually find in quite heavyweight crypto libs. I don't want to implement this on a PDP-11. ;-( -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 28 07:53:57 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16567.13925.147406.750673@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: Pete> On May 27, 8:54, Paul Koning wrote: >> I have had a particle board bookshelf come apart. The blame was >> in part on incompetent design ("scandinavian design" pretty >> looking stuff) -- the shelf was "supported" on a groove milled in >> the edge. That means the load was carried on less than half the >> thickness of >> the shelf. Pete> Presumably it sagged, and the ends came away from the sides? Pete> I've seen that happen. Bad design -- either an inappropriate Pete> design for the material, or an inappropraite material for the Pete> design, depending on your point of view :-) No, it split in half. The trouble with that kind of particle board is that it's very dense on the surface and not so dense in the middle, so the middle has very little tensile strength. And it was being loaded in tension by the brackets and groove construction. >> So I'd say that you should never use particle board to carry >> loads. Pete> Manufacturers of computer room raised floors will disagree with Pete> that -- all the high-load ones I've ever coma across are made Pete> of particle board (usually with a very thin metal cladding, Pete> which is to protect against moisture and impacts, and to Pete> provide electrical continuity). Of course, these are 35mm-45mm Pete> thick, not 15mm-18mm. It's been decades since I've seen a raised floor, but those I remember looked like they had steel on the bottom as a structural part, not just as a conductor. You may be right that it's possible to use particleboard correctly in load bearing applications. In my experience, even if possible, it's rare, and I for one will not do it. It's excellent material for speaker boxes, but for loads I'll use plywood or solid hardwood. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 28 07:58:27 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Booting a PDP-11/04 without drives? References: <1085586123.12717.9.camel@weka.localdomain> <40B509A1.647A76AD@msm.umr.edu> <1085608084.12717.131.camel@weka.localdomain> <40B609C4.5040700@hp.com> Message-ID: <16567.14195.967183.906677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Wai-Sun" == Wai-Sun Chia writes: Wai-Sun> Hello list, Is it possible to boot a 11/04 (16kW core) Wai-Sun> without any drives? Wai-Sun> This may just be fantasizing.. 1. Connect a PC to the PDP Wai-Sun> via the console 2. Have a program (a'la vtserver) serve out Wai-Sun> a disk image 3. Toggle in a bootstrap loader to load from Wai-Sun> that virtual disk 4. Jump to start of image Wai-Sun> Possible? Yes, depending on the operating system. In particular, RSX-11/S is exactly that -- a diskless OS. It's designed to be loaded over the network. If you have a comm device that can support MOP, you may be able to find a bootROM that can do this directly (and MOP servers are available on the net). Similarly, there are some PDP-11 based embedded systems that are diskless; some terminal servers, for example. (There was LAT-11 -- did that become a product?) Most other PDP-11 operating systems require local block storage, though. Usually a disk -- RT-11 will also work with local DECtape as the only storage, if you're patient. Oh yes, if you go WAY back, there are the paper tape based systems, not really enough to call it an OS -- something called IOX for example. I know nothing more than the name and I haven't seen any docs. There are paper tape images for it on bitsavers.org/DEC/pdp11. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 28 08:01:59 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope References: <16565.57980.528000.476245@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16567.14407.839613.105899@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: Tony> Use a limiting resistor! But not a 100 ohm one -- that might as well be a short. A megaohm is probably better. Voltage rating may be an issue. >> In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from >> the metal shaft of the screwdriver. The most natural position for >> the Tony> Considering the shaft is connected to ground through a very low Tony> resistance in your set-up, what's the harm in touching it ? That's true IF the wire hasn't popped loose, and IF the limiting resistor has a much smaller resistance than your body. >> There are special "safety" screwdrivers (designed/approved for >> work in live mains power systems). Those have shafts that are >> insulated right up to the tip. Tony> And are often only rated to 1000V. That's enough for working on Tony> live mains (which is where I use them), but CRT anodes run at Tony> 10-25 times that voltage. True. >> You could give yourself a little extra safety by wrapping a few >> layers of electrician's tape around the top 2-3 inches of the >> screwdriver Tony> I am not sure what the breakdown voltage of insulting tape is Tony> (yes, I always call it that!), but it's not that high. I doubt Tony> that a layer would stand 10kV (which is what you're asking for Tony> here, at least on a colour CRT). True again. So I guess "keep your fingers at the top of the handle" is the better answer. paul From lists at microvax.org Fri May 28 08:29:20 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: Heads Up: VMS V5.5 Manuals on Ebay in UK In-Reply-To: <7B2FF973-B07F-11D8-A388-00039358EE78@btinternet.com> References: <7B2FF973-B07F-11D8-A388-00039358EE78@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <200405281429.20278.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 28 May 2004 09:17, Duncan Entwisle wrote: > Annoyingly I have no space for these (not even temporarily). They're > less than 30 miles from where I live - I wonder what over goodies they > have :-( > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=67855&item=4133816051&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > > "40 original digital (dec) vms v5.5 operating > system/progrsmming/developing manuals" > > (Hopefully someone will tell me that they're all available as pdfs on > the net... but I doubt it.) I keep seeing these relisted but until I move to New House in a months' time I will have nowhere to put them. Shame, i'd love a grey wall... alex/melt From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 28 08:30:13 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16567.16101.257291.82522@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: Pete> I recently had a discussion with our security advisor at work, Pete> about FTP being replaced by HTTP and SCP. Some people would Pete> like to replace "insecure" FTP with "modern" services like SCP Pete> and HTTP (something along the lines of "we don't do anonymous Pete> FTP, stick the file on a web page instead"), and argue that Pete> they're safer and there's no loss of functionality. I'm not so Pete> sure. For example, FTP understands the difference between a Pete> unix-style "stream of bytes" file, and a structured one such as Pete> might be found under VMS (or any of several other OSs) -- and Pete> can deal with the difference. http has Mime types, and for things that are sufficiently strange, wrapping them in a tarball or zip archive is probably a good idea anyway. Certainly people routinely distribute .tar.gz files with fine integrity. I think the security argument (that is, "http is more secure than ftp") is bogus. Both are anonymous, unless you choose to make them require authentication. WIth FTP that's easy, with HTTP it can also be done but may not be as widely understood. There are probably more http server exploits than ftp server exploits, partly because http servers can live on Windows while this is harder (thought not entirely impossible) for FTP. One security argument that may make sense: you presumably have a web server anyway, so doing everything via that server and NOT require an additional server (ftpd) means one fewer application to worry about. That's quite reasonable. Pete> I don't have an easy way to test this, so I don't know if web Pete> browsers or programs like wget can do the right thing, or Pete> indeed if servers such as Apache can, or what happens with SCP Pete> -- but it occurs to me that it might matter in the context of Pete> classic computing. In general I like http for file access. In many cases it seems to be faster, though I know of no good reason why that should be so. The protocol is far more sane -- if you have NAT or firewalls, it's far less tricky to get things right than with FTP. FTP passive mode helps some but it is still an amazing mess at the packet level. If you want security, SCP is an excellent answer. If you want anonymous file access, I don't know any reason to use that. wget handles both ftp and http quite nicely. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 28 08:32:25 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: OLD RSTS manual found References: <200405272131.i4RLVhlf003561@spies.com> Message-ID: <16567.16233.169839.904301@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Al" == Al Kossow writes: >> If they aren't already in PDF form, why not send the manuuals to >> Al and have him scan them - he's got a great scanner!! Al> PLEASE! Al> esp the V4A sysmgr manual, which is needed to revive the dectapes Al> that were read. I can turn these VERY quickly and would be happy Al> to cover postage both ways. You mean the V4A tapes? Yes -- but you'll also need a DOS distribution tape (one more DECtape) to build RSTS V4A from those dectapes. paul From siddiqui at fr.com Thu May 27 19:49:24 2004 From: siddiqui at fr.com (Owais Siddiqui) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:54 2005 Subject: AT&T Gemini-100 electronic blackboard Message-ID: <0E7BFC09BE77E74F81F6A683D26238C40139B0@SDMAIL.frdomain.fr.com> Joe, I saw your post (below) about the Gemini electronic blackboard on a message board. I'm interested in the Gemini; do you still have the unit or any of its literature? Thanks, Owais Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard Joe cctech@classiccmp.org Mon Jul 7 21:02:25 2003 * Previous message: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard * Next message: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ________________________________ I finished taking one apart that had an embedded HP 1000 computer in it. The thing was HUGE! The tablet was about 6 by 8 FEET. IIRC it was made by Giesler Scientific and it used a high resolution Advin color monitor. I'm not sure but I think it dated from about 1974. Joe At 08:03 PM 7/7/03 +0100, you wrote: >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to >> December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? > >I have in front of me a manual for a Ferranti digitiser. It was about >A0 in size (4 feet by 5 feet approx) with a crosshair "puck". Some >of the documents refer to the digitiser as a "Bendix", but I don't >know why. > >The dates on the schematics are 1970. > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk ________________________________ size=2 width="100%" align=center> * Previous message: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard * Next message: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Thu May 27 20:11:22 2004 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (Linc Fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <001f01c44448$c3b3efa0$6402a8c0@home> References: <200405270808.JAA20412@citadel.metropolis.local> <10405272120.ZM26036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <001f01c44448$c3b3efa0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <20040527211122.24ad95c7.lincoln.fessenden@verizon.net> > > > The desk on which my main Mac sits is made of this stuff and is > > sagging > > > under the weight of the two monitors. That's only a year old. > > Needless > > > to say it's scheduled for prompt replacement with a steel desk! My desk is the same and was sagging under the weight of a 21" and 17" sgi monitor. My wife was concerned, so I sent her out for a helper..... A 2x12 which my monitors now sit atop. It helps more evenly distribute the weight load and is hardly noticable with keyboards in front of it. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From pzachary at sasquatch.com Thu May 27 20:56:07 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs (data i/o help needed) In-Reply-To: <000901c4437a$72da0b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <000901c4437a$72da0b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <60817.216.218.236.136.1085709367.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> I made images of all my roms, but the burner I used is ancient and non-standard so they likely won't help, I want to read them with something a little more standard, a DATAI/O 29b... has anyone got the "device code" for the 82S131? thanks, Pavl_ > sure I'll host it. I'll just put it under www.classiccmp.org/M9312 > > Someone just give me the files! > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John A. Dundas III" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs > > >> I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 >> bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I have >> a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I >> don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to go. >> >> Any images already archived? >> >> Any volunteers to host a collection? >> >> John From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Fri May 28 00:55:36 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim D) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <200405280538.BAA15527@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> <200405272210.SAA03726@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040527224119.GE1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405280538.BAA15527@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40B6D458.6060406@hotmail.com> der Mouse wrote: >>>[...joystick port MIDI converter...] Mine cost me CAD 34.45, TTC, >>>around the middle of last August. >>> >>> >>Hacking together a very simple circuit with an opto-isolator, a few >>resistors, diodes, etc. costs a lot less. There are several circuits >>available on the 'net. >> >> > >Sure, and I imagine I could design one myself easily enough - I know >_that_ much about electronics. > >But I don't have any suitable optoisolators on hand (I found only one, >and its output device was a mains-voltage triac), and the hassle factor >of obtaining some was enough to outweigh the extra dollars the pre-made >adapter cost me. > >Besides, by the time you add in mounting and housing, the cost for the >homebrew has probably at least doubled, in money and time both. >(Granted, its hack value would have been significantly higher that way.) > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > I was thinking a simple current to voltage adaptor, maybe 2 resistors and a transistor that worked and somebody had actually built. I'm sure I have some optoisolators, and I've seen the stuff on the net. I was even thinking about a one resistor e-i converter. I've got 3 days to play with it, I might end up building the full monty if I can sort through all the junk and find the parts. Jim Davis. From mina59 at algeriecom.com Fri May 28 06:05:41 2004 From: mina59 at algeriecom.com (bouda) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Decitek 262 Tape Reader Manual? Message-ID: <40B71D04.44A656B9@algeriecom.com> Nous voudrions un manuel en Fran?ais. Nous cherchons ? r?cup?rer le contenu d'un soft machine sur bande perfor?e dans un fichier informatique et le moyen de transf?rer celui-ci vers la machine ? travers le un PC. Sinc?res salutations. Sma?l BOUDAOUD. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri May 28 08:20:46 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> References: <40B56F9B.4000101@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040528091705.023dc7d0@mail.n.ml.org> I had a Yamaha keyboard back in 1988 that had a non-standard midi output jack to go to other midi equipment. Patched it right into an old full length SB16 Pro I had at the time and worked fine. Seeing how Yamaha was and is one of the more popular companies out there, I don't see why such a thing wouldn't work or exist. I'm sure there must be some solution out there for it, hiding. Possibly like when I went looking for a Linux CD I had... sitting 14 inches from my face, heh. Naw, it's probly available off epay or some music site. If you want, I'll help search for it if you give me more info on the keyboard. -John Boffemmyer IV At 12:33 AM 5/27/2004, you wrote: >Is it possible to attach ( with a proper connector ) an "isolated" midi >device directly to the soundblaster >midi joystick iinterface? I don't feel like building a full opto isolated >pass through interface for this little >keyboard. Just midi in to the computer is OK. BTW, this is on topic, the >KB is over 10 yo. >Thanks, >Jim Davis. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri May 28 08:23:36 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <40B53234.3050806@srv.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40B53234.3050806@srv.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040528092309.023ecbc8@mail.n.ml.org> Bwahahaha. =) Got me to laugh before 9am, damn you, hehe. -John Boffemmyer IV At 08:11 PM 5/26/2004, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: > >> I went scrounging a few days ago and opened up a junction box and found >>a set of wire leads with the mini-grabbers and a plastic wire frame from a >>HP logic analyzer that someone had left inside. Wahoo! These always come in >>handy! I've previously found screwdrivers, knives, various plugs, >>connectors and gender menders. But I got to wondering what is the strangest >>thing that anyone has ever found inside a computer or similar piece of >>electronics gear. >> >> Joe >> >> >How about getting this machine... > >http://geekpress.com/stories/voters2.html ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri May 28 08:33:02 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040528093023.023ca658@mail.n.ml.org> SSL with FTP has been actively used on one of my host's servers for over 4 years. He has a Linux server farm and I use WSFTP pro to upload/download the files using SSL. He's been real paranoid about security since his brilliant sister one day "accidentally" posted her password to one of the servers in a chat. Obviously, for a few days until she told him, people were slamming the server, trying to get in. Only damage was timeout from too many connections at once, trying to get in. -John Boffemmyer IV At 04:39 AM 5/28/2004, you wrote: >On Fri, 28 May 2004 00:36:42 +0100 (BST) >Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I recently had a discussion with our security advisor at work, about > > FTP being replaced by HTTP and SCP. >[...] > > For example, FTP understands the > > difference between a unix-style "stream of bytes" file, and a > > structured one such as might be found under VMS (or any of several > > other OSs) -- and can deal with the difference. >You are refering to "binary" versus "ascii" mode in ftp? >http can do the same. It is possible to specify encodings, charsets, ... >in the http headers. This way a http client is able to e.g. transcode >charsets of textfiles during reception. > >scp allways copys files verbatim. (AFAIK) > >The problem may be that ftp uses a "strange" way to handle connections. >You have one TCP stream for control and an other for data. Depending on >active or passive ftp the data connection is opened from the server to >the client or vice versa. (IIRC) If you have to admin a firewall for a >ftp server this can be a nightmare and possibly result in weaker >firewall rules. http uses only a TCP connection from the client to the >server on port 80. So you can secure a http server quite good by "allow >everything to server-IP port 80; allow everything from server-IP port >80; deny everything else" (or "allow everything to server-IP port 80 >keep state; deny everything else") quite easyly. > >An other issue may be that ftp allways transferes clear text passwords. >http does the same, but you can use https (http with SSL/TLS >encryption). There is a SSL variant of ftp, but I know of no client or >server that supports it. All http clients support https. You can do SSL >client certificate based authentification with most https clients and >servers as well... >-- > > >tsch??, > Jochen > >Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 28 08:35:25 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200405280835.25677.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 27 May 2004 18:36, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I recently had a discussion with our security advisor at work, about > FTP being replaced by HTTP and SCP. Some people would like to > replace "insecure" FTP with "modern" services like SCP and HTTP > (something along the lines of "we don't do anonymous FTP, stick the > file on a web page instead"), and argue that they're safer and > there's no loss of functionality. I'm not so sure. For example, FTP > understands the difference between a unix-style "stream of bytes" > file, and a structured one such as might be found under VMS (or any > of several other OSs) -- and can deal with the difference. Can't you cover that problem with something like an archiver? VMS BACKUP format, or something else that's designed to store enough info so that you can send record-mode files over a "generic bitstream" connection. Not necessarily ideal, but it should be able to work, assuming you can get an http client (wget) for your platform, or build a simple one, which shouldn't be all that hard (assuming you have enough to build an ftp client). IMHO, just switching to a web server doesn't necessarily make things more "secure," well, unless you're using wu-ftp. :) But, for thing that require a password set over a connection that I don't physically own all the machines on, I really don't like sending that password unencrypted; that's something that https and ssh/sftp/scp can do and ftp can't (easily) do, without tunneling over an encrypted VPN connection or something. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri May 28 08:48:25 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <51a62fb64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Paul Koning wrote: > I have had a particle board bookshelf come apart. The blame was in > part on incompetent design ("scandinavian design" pretty looking > stuff) -- the shelf was "supported" on a groove milled in the edge. > That means the load was carried on less than half the thickness of the > shelf. > > Even so, a better material would not have failed. I've got a home-made pine computer desk (built into the wall), a pine bookcase and a pair of three-quarter-inch pine shelves. They've been up since early 1998 and are still in good condition. Well, aside from the missing sections of varnish on the computer desk - exploding components and falling tools tend to cause that sort of damage, though :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hi! I'm a tagline virus! Steal me & join in the fun! From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 28 08:53:10 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200405280853.10195.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 28 May 2004 03:53, der Mouse wrote: > HTTP can do the same only to a point. Since you seem to be in love with classic protocols, how about this... at least for non-anonymous transfers, you could just use kermit to transfer the file over an ssh connection. that'll handle all of your ftp "corner cases" that http doesn't support (btw, most http servers do support resuming file transfers these days), and adds functionality. I don't think even ftp supports some things like changing filesystem ACLs, or changing your password on the server, for instance. For anonymous transfers, the only thing I can see you'd want that http doesn't provide (assuming a server and client that support resuming) is transferring multiple files over a single TCP connection (I don't care about), or transfering record-mode files from something like VMS (shove them in an archive format that survives bit-mode transfers). Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From spectre at floodgap.com Fri May 28 09:46:37 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040528093023.023ca658@mail.n.ml.org> from John Boffemmyer IV at "May 28, 4 09:33:02 am" Message-ID: <200405281446.HAA15196@floodgap.com> > SSL with FTP has been actively used on one of my host's servers for over 4 > years. If the data isn't sensitive and only the login information needs to be protected, you could also use ssh2 to tunnel port 21 and then just use a regular ftp client and daemon, tunneled through an ssh2 client and daemon. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- If the dictionary misspells a word, how would you know? -- Steven Wright --- From spectre at floodgap.com Fri May 28 09:52:00 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from der Mouse at "May 28, 4 04:53:33 am" Message-ID: <200405281452.HAA13472@floodgap.com> > This is false. I, for example, run lynx, and on two separate occasions > I have looked into convincing it to support SSL; in each case, I got > about four levels deep in tools-to-build-the-tools before running into > a requirement for something ridiculously heavyweight - perl, I think - > and abandoning the attempt. Perl is unbelievably commonplace, though. You don't have it/use it? I barely remember life before Perl (and for that matter tcsh -- I can't believe I fumbled by on csh all those years in university). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The world only beats a path to your door when you're in the bathroom. ------ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri May 28 09:42:15 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102C01@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <20040527102336.GA25935@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200405280742150927.1C78BEE2@192.168.42.129> I'm willing to do this as well. As before, contact me via private E-mail to set it up. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27-May-04 at 10:23 Ethan Dicks wrote: >On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 08:43:58AM +0200, Gooijen H wrote: >> In an effort to beat Al, :-) I have a website page that >> deals with the M9312, and the PROMs: www.pdp-11.nl/ > >While we're at it, how about an archive of pdp-8/a PROMs... There are, >AFAIK, three sets - the newest includes the RL8A bootstrap. I don't have >access to my -8/a stuff here (big surprise), or I'd start us all off. > >I'm even willing to reverse-engineer source from binary, if someone makes >the binary available... I just got my first IOB-6120 working, so I'm in a >12-bit mindset right now. > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-May-2004 10:20 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.2 F (-65.0 C) Windchill -121.7 F >(-85.40 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 061 Barometer 681.8 mb (10559. >ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Fri May 28 09:46:11 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Decitek 262 Tape Reader Manual? In-Reply-To: <40B71D04.44A656B9@algeriecom.com> Message-ID: bouda heeft op vrijdag, 28 mei 2004 om 13:05 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: > Nous voudrions un manuel en Fran?ais. > Nous cherchons ? r?cup?rer le contenu d'un soft machine sur bande > perfor?e dans un fichier informatique et le moyen de transf?rer > celui-ci > vers la machine ? travers le un PC. > > Vous pouvez essayer le groupe fr.comp.ordinosaures. Il existe plusieurs solution professionels pour votre problem, mais c'est assez cher. (He is looking for a french manual for the Decitek 262 and a way to replace the papertape reader with a PC) I would be happy with an english manual for one... Jos Dreesen From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Fri May 28 10:33:09 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de><200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040528113005.GA21902@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <005501c444c9$14eb0b80$650fa8c0@Sol> > > Well, I didn't write it, but I do know something about FTP - for > > example, I've read its defining RFC, which appears to be more than you > > bothered to do. That's uncalled for. --Patrick From pzachary at sasquatch.com Fri May 28 10:07:39 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary@sasquatch.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Booting a PDP-11/04 without drives? In-Reply-To: <40B609C4.5040700@hp.com> References: <40B609C4.5040700@hp.com> Message-ID: <60435.216.218.236.136.1085756859.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.com> run a tu-58 emulator on a pc connected to a slu on the 11/04, you can't do much but it will allow you to run RT-11 at least(and with 16KW you won't be running much else). Assuming you have at least 2 serial lines on the 11/04 if not someone on the list can help with that (even myself). Pavl_ > Hello list, > Is it possible to boot a 11/04 (16kW core) without any drives? > > This may just be fantasizing.. > 1. Connect a PC to the PDP via the console > 2. Have a program (a'la vtserver) serve out a disk image > 3. Toggle in a bootstrap loader to load from that virtual disk > 4. Jump to start of image > > Possible? > > /wai-sun From kth at srv.net Fri May 28 11:03:12 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Extracting files from TPC RSTS/E Tape image? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B762C0.80009@srv.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've got some RSTS/E backups that have been converted to TPC format > tape images, and I'd like to extract the files to a Unix system. Are > there any tools to do this? > Is is the old or the new backup format? If it is the new format, look for the 'vmsbackup' program. Not sure what tape image formats it can handle. If it is the old format, there is always simh + kermit, etc... From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri May 28 11:13:57 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp Message-ID: <0405281613.AA06404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > I, for example, run lynx, and on two separate occasions > I have looked into convincing it to support SSL; Ahmm, Lynx has supported SSL for a long time. More precisely, it has hooks that can be enabled at compile time: if you compile with -DUSE_SSL and link with the SSL libraries, you'll get SSL-capable Lynx. This is not a new feature, as I (deliberately) use a very old version of Lynx. In 1997-98 I was on the Lynx development mailing list and saw their development process. That was right at the time when Foteos Macrides (Fote), who maintained Lynx from times immemorial until version 2.7.x, was retiring from Lynx development and passing the baton to the new gang. I was personally very displeased with what the new gang did to Lynx (there were many issues, but the absolute show-stopper for me was when they replaced simple Makefiles with the GNU autoconf morass), and I chose to forever stick with Fote's last version (2.7.2) plus my own small changes. My version of Lynx (2.7.2MS) lives on my FTP site: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/net/www/lynx I didn't have to do any special work for SSL, since SSL was already there when I picked up Fote's last version. > in each case, I got > about four levels deep in tools-to-build-the-tools before running into > a requirement for something ridiculously heavyweight - perl, I think - > and abandoning the attempt. The SSL libraries were a pain to build under pure 4.3BSD, but I succeeded, and it was just usual compilation pains (fixing code that assumed "modern" C, headers and libc), no special tools like Perl required. MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri May 28 11:11:44 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Booting a PDP-11/04 without drives? In-Reply-To: <40B609C4.5040700@hp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > Hello list, > Is it possible to boot a 11/04 (16kW core) without any drives? > > This may just be fantasizing.. > 1. Connect a PC to the PDP via the console > 2. Have a program (a'la vtserver) serve out a disk image > 3. Toggle in a bootstrap loader to load from that virtual disk > 4. Jump to start of image > > Possible? Very possible. That is how Xinu worked, and how various of my "fun things" work. --f From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 11:20:50 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200405281624.MAA17733@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I suppose the [raised-floor tiles] I am familiar with from the one >> job I've worked at that used them are atypical, then. They [...] > I've worked in an office which had those too, so you're not alone. > They were very tight fitting too, and needed a couple of big > suction-cups to lift them up. They could take one hell of a weight > though. Matches my experience on all counts. (Though if you start with a tile with a hole cut in it, so you can get a grip by hand, you don't need the suction cups. A screwdriver between the tiles can also turn the trick.) > In my case the building probably dated from around 1980. I just spoke with the admin there (my boss for about half the time I was there), and he thinks the raised flooring in question went in in the mid/late 1980s. He also says the same stuff is available today; they just finished installing it (which really means having it installed) in another room. But of course the tiles are overdesigned to the point where they Just Don't Break, so once made they are kicking around on the second-hand market approximately forever. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 11:25:11 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405281452.HAA13472@floodgap.com> References: <200405281452.HAA13472@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <200405281635.MAA17790@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...] before running into a requirement for something ridiculously >> heavyweight - perl, I think - and abandoning the attempt. > Perl is unbelievably commonplace, though. You don't have it/use it? No. I don't really like it all that much as a language in its own right, and I strongly dislike some aspects of the culture that has grown up around it. > I barely remember life before Perl (and for that matter tcsh -- I > can't believe I fumbled by on csh all those years in university). I had trouble dealing with no command-line editing, so I patched DCL to add it (and in the process discovered a bug, er, ahem, "undocumented limitation" in patch). When we switched from VMS to Unix, I _really_ missed ECL (what I called my patched DCL), so I added command-line editing to csh. What the result has become by the present day is still my preferred shell; it differs from tcsh in a number of important-to-me ways. (One of my back-burner projects is building a new shell entirely de novo....) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri May 28 11:41:10 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp Message-ID: <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Perl is unbelievably commonplace, though. You don't have it/use it? I > barely remember life before Perl (and for that matter tcsh -- I can't believe > I fumbled by on csh all those years in university). Just as a data point: I have Perl 4.036 installed on this VAX running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, though I don't know Perl and don't use it myself. (I installed it because something else needed it, don't remember what.) As for the shell, I refuse to install any shell other than those than come standard with 4.3BSD (original sh and csh). I personally use sh only. That's right, the *original* Bourne Shell. MS From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri May 28 11:48:28 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 28 May 2004 11:41, Michael Sokolov wrote: > As for the shell, I refuse to install any shell other than those than > come standard with 4.3BSD (original sh and csh). I personally use sh > only. That's right, the *original* Bourne Shell. Line editing, tab completion, and command history be damned! (Just a few of the advantages of having a recent shell). Personally, I rather be able to press than retype a 40+ character command line that I mis-typed a single letter on. Of course, I'm not going to argue with you about this. I know how far that'll get me. ;) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri May 28 12:13:03 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1085764383.3081.51.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 16:48, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Personally, I rather be > able to press than retype a 40+ character command line that I > mis-typed a single letter on. Doesn't that particular form of simple command line editing (eg. ^a^b) work in the original sh? :-) It works in sh on this linux machine, but that's perhaps a long way from the original sh (as I believe it's just bash running in sh compatibility mode). I think it's always been present in csh. (I used to hate not being able to do simple substitution like that in MSDOS :-) cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Fri May 28 12:29:25 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside References: Message-ID: <00dd01c444d9$52eef300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> While trying to find a Kodak Retina possibly lost off the > Why would you want to find one of those? It is my opinion, *** off topic *** The Retina was a gift and attractive in its moderate mechanical complexity, and found that day BTW.. My prime camera cost me over $200 (1976) and I wouldn't use it out in the wild which was where I was working that summer. Speaking of v."moderate", I agree that Retinas are off topic. I like mechanical cameras and can live with keeping them off the list. Luckily I was away for most of the thread deviation. John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Fri May 28 12:34:46 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <1085764383.3081.51.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040528132812.039e5af8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jules Richardson may have mentioned these words: >On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 16:48, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Personally, I rather be > > able to press than retype a 40+ character command line that I > > mis-typed a single letter on. Bingo... I did my time doing that on OS-9 -- I eschewed a bulkier shell on that platform at the for two reasons: 1) ENOCASH, and 2) when you're only working with 2Mhz & 64K datasegments, I was willing to live with the limitations... and maybe that's one reason I can pop out 110wpm... ;-) >Doesn't that particular form of simple command line editing (eg. ^a^b) >work in the original sh? :-) Yes, but and tab file/command completion don't. >It works in sh on this linux machine, but >that's perhaps a long way from the original sh (as I believe it's just >bash running in sh compatibility mode). Huh? AFAIK, bash is *always* in "sh compatibility mode" as it's (supposed to be) backward-compatible with sh. If you: ls -lAF /bin|grep sh you'll prolly see that sh is just a symlink to bash, so you're running full-blown bash. Here's mine: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 92444 Feb 6 2003 ash* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 492968 Feb 6 2003 ash.static* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 626028 Feb 11 2003 bash* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Apr 15 2003 bash2 -> bash* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Apr 15 2003 bsh -> ash* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Apr 15 2003 csh -> tcsh* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Apr 15 2003 sh -> bash* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 316276 Jan 25 2003 tcsh* [[ RedSplat 9... ]] Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 28 10:33:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280853.10195.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200405280853.10195.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040528173336.0c9fbd3b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:53:10 -0500 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > For anonymous transfers, the only thing I can see you'd want that http > doesn't provide [...] is transferring multiple files over a single TCP > connection Transfering them simultaneously? Or in sequence? HTTP can do persistent TCP connections ("Keep-Alive") and pipelining to transport several files in sequence over the same TCP connection. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 28 12:42:59 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 26 May 2004 19:42:10 EDT." Message-ID: <200405281742.i4SHgxi03501@mwave.heeltoe.com> I thought these were fuse link proms. Can one get eeprom's which are compatible? I have a device which can read/blow these proms, btw. My 11/34 has: 248F1 - console 217F1 - ? 764A9 - ts04 751A9 - rl01 (boots my rl02, btw) 690A9 - ? The 690 and 217 are soldered in. I'd be happy to read/post the other if anyone wants them. and, I could blow new proms if the parts are available. -brad From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri May 28 12:46:02 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning ( computer floor) Message-ID: I have a pile of computer flooring setting in the corner of my garage. The hospital removed it and I'm hoping to set up a computer room. My wife keeps asking about when and where. Tiles have a black rubber/plastic edge about ? inch wide on all edges. Center is tile/hard linoleum. Structure is steel with an x pattern on the bottom. Very heavy. The tracks to support the tiles are metal channels with a cross section -------/\------- | | | | | | ----- ----- This lets the tiles abut without sliding across. A foot can then be clamped into the channel and leveled. Our feet were all epoxied onto the concrete subfloor. I have several that are cut to allow cables/hoses to penetrate the floor. You can see the cross section easily. I have seen versions with carpet squares on them. The only problem with the suction cup tile pullers is that picking a tile up at an angle can result in dropped tiles, they loose suction. Mike From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri May 28 12:57:22 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms Message-ID: Flooded computer room Our computer room was on the 11th floor of an office building. The cooling was based on a unit that used the cold water feed into the building as a cooling source. The air handler was in the computer room also included a humidifier. The float valve on the humidifier stuck and flooded the room under the floor. We noticed/felt "high humidity" on Monday morning. No water was visible. We pulled up a floor tile and there was 2 inches of water under the entire floor. All of the cables were in water. Most of the terminal cables were threaded through the channels in the floors to other offices; all of the channels were also full of water. Everything was still running. We got a dehumidifier, pulled up a few floor tiles and dried the room out. We placed rag wicks down in the channels to draw out the water so we could evaporate it. All of the cables were covered with dust, grime and rust colored crud that dried on them from the water. Mike From spc at conman.org Fri May 28 13:04:45 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 28, 2004 04:53:33 AM Message-ID: <20040528180445.2943910B2CB7@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great der Mouse once stated: > > Nothing strange about it; this is really the only sensible thing to do > when you want to be able to abort a transfer cleanly (something HTTP > doesn't bother to even try to do). Well, HTTP was a later design than FTP, and initially, was a simpler protocol than FTP [1] and the assumption was that initiating TCP connections was "cheap" and that if you wanted to abort a connection, you'd drop your side of the connection. > HTTP also offers nothing like REST or the various other filesystem > manipulation commands like ACCT, CWD, CDUP, SMNT, STOU, APPE, RNFR, > RNTO, DELE, RMD, MKD, PWD, LIST, NLST...indeed HTTP doesn't really > offer file transfer at all - it's just common for a request to be > satisfied by serving up a copy of a file, and this is (ab)used as a > file-transfer mechanism. HTTP/1.1 (the current version) allows one to restart a file download, and now even allows one to create a file (via PUT), copy (COPY), delete (DELETE) and move (MOVE) resources. Well, files, but since HTTP works with URLs there doesn't have to exist a one-to-one match between a request and a file [2]. > > http does the same, but you can use https (http with SSL/TLS > > encryption). There is a SSL variant of ftp, but I know of no client > > or server that supports it. > > I can only assume you haven't bothered to look. One googling (FTP SSL > client) turned up what looks lke a whole bunch of them; I followed the > first of the returned link and the page I found claims at least 40 > client and 28 server implementations that support AUTH (which doesn't > necessarily mean SSL, but does mean something better than cleartext > reusable passwords). It also lists 45 FTP clients that (it says) > support one of the three forms of SSL-secured FTP it outlines, so > presumably the counts are out of date. Wow, that's new to me, and I've been using the Internet since 1989. -spc (Looked through the FTP RFC, extensively read the HTTP RFC and have helped write a webserver ... ) [1] The original version, 0.9, was: connect to the specified port GET path\r\n And start receiving the data. Yes, it was *that* simple. It's been built on ever since. [2] For instance, there doesn't exist a single "file" for the request http://boston.conman.org/2000/8/11-15 which describes a vacation I took through northern Florida a few years ago. Not even http://boston.conman.org/2003/7/4 describes a single "file", but conceivably I could apply a DELETE on said URLs, or even a MOVE or COPY. Even a PUT (which creates a resource at a given URL). These concepts do apply even though what's being served isn't a "file" in the traditional sense. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri May 28 13:12:43 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <000b01c44490$a7c1eca0$bb72fea9@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040526150855.007b8380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40B5073C.2020902@mich.com> <000b01c44490$a7c1eca0$bb72fea9@geoff> Message-ID: <20040528111202.A45283@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 27 May 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > OK, but how did he get the cups in there ? :^) pressing the eject button on the cupholder? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri May 28 13:17:24 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040528132812.039e5af8@mail.30below.com> References: <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20040528132812.039e5af8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1085768244.3081.60.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 17:34, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Jules Richardson may have mentioned these words: > >It works in sh on this linux machine, but > >that's perhaps a long way from the original sh (as I believe it's just > >bash running in sh compatibility mode). > > Huh? AFAIK, bash is *always* in "sh compatibility mode" as it's (supposed > to be) backward-compatible with sh. If you: > ls -lAF /bin|grep sh > > you'll prolly see that sh is just a symlink to bash, so you're running > full-blown bash. Sure - but I meant that just because I tried doing the ^a^b command modification thingy in sh (which as you say is a link to bash) on the machine I'm sitting in front of (as with you, RH9), that doesn't necessarily mean that it's available in the original sh, as it could be a feature of another shell which bash has incorporated over time. Actually, I just looked at the man page for bash, which says: "If bash is invoked with the name sh, it tries to mimic the startup behavior of historical versions of sh as closely as possible, while conforming to the POSIX standard as well" ... which maybe does imply that bash isn't *quite* as sh compatible when run as bash rather than sh. Of course that just mentions the startup behaviour, not whether there are differences during normal interactive operation. Which makes me realise that I may well still have an old version of the SLS distribution of Linux somewhere, which is actually on topic as it's over ten years old now. :) cheers Jules From arcarlini at iee.org Fri May 28 13:26:14 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Heads Up: VMS V5.5 Manuals on Ebay in UK In-Reply-To: <200405281429.20278.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <001301c444e1$42824320$5b01a8c0@athlon> Duncan Entwisle wrote: > > (Hopefully someone will tell me that they're all available > as pdfs on > > the net... but I doubt it.) The current ones are available on the net (this from about the V6.1 days to the current ones): http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/index.html The rest are (almost) all available in Bookreader format on the various CONOLD CDs. Those are not up on the net but, if you have a hobbyist licence, I believe that you can legally ask for a copy from someone else. It's for this reason that I've never bothered to scan any of the OpenVMS software manuals that I have. There are tools that can read Bookreader and there are probably tools that can turn it into something else (like PDF or HTML). meltie: > I keep seeing these relisted but until I move to New House in > a months' > time I will have nowhere to put them. Shame, i'd love a grey wall... My grey wall has gone into storage now: the only ones I find I need to hand are the old release notes. Try sending him an email expressing interest, wishing him luck with his auction and asking whether, if they don't sell, you might make an offer at a later date when your circumstances permit. At least that way they won't end up being recycled without you at least getting a look in! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From spectre at floodgap.com Fri May 28 13:43:34 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from Michael Sokolov at "May 28, 4 09:41:10 am" Message-ID: <200405281843.LAA10990@floodgap.com> > > Perl is unbelievably commonplace, though. You don't have it/use it? I > > barely remember life before Perl (and for that matter tcsh -- I can't > > believe I fumbled by on csh all those years in university). > > Just as a data point: I have Perl 4.036 installed on this VAX running > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, though I don't know Perl and don't use it myself. > (I installed it because something else needed it, don't remember what.) > As for the shell, I refuse to install any shell other than those than come > standard with 4.3BSD (original sh and csh). I personally use sh only. > That's right, the *original* Bourne Shell. I suppose there's a time and a place for masochism ... -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "Another day, another dangling modifier" ----------------------------------- From spc at conman.org Fri May 28 13:34:43 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <1085740752.3081.37.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at May 28, 2004 10:39:13 AM Message-ID: <20040528183443.7908B10B2CB7@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Jules Richardson once stated: > > Bottom line to me is that HTTP is a pretty heavyweight and bloated > protocol, whereas FTP is a lot cleaner. So for raw data transfer I'd > always prefer an FTP server. I consider FTP to be more convoluted than HTTP (having helped written a webserver and only briefly looked over the FTP specs) since under FTP there is support for differing file modes (stream, record, conversions between text formats, etc.) and setting up tranfers between multiple machines. HTTP is simple enough to use via telnet. Given http://boston.conman.org/2000/06/04.1 you can do: %telnet boston.conman.org 80 Trying 216.82.116.251... Connected to swift.conman.org. Escape character is '^]'. GET /2000/06/04.1 HTTP/1.1 Host: boston.conman.org (blank line, type nothing here) (server starts spewing data out at you) The complications arrise when you start using more of the features in HTTP/1.1, such as byte ranges, conditional requests (if the "file" hasn't changed since such-n-such a date, don't send anything), caching, etc. > Password security is an issue because it's perhaps not as good as HTTPS > - but then with HTTPS aren't we getting into pay-through-the-nose server > certificate territory? Not necessarily. You can sign your own certificates, but browsers will give a warning about an unknown certificate authority (someone other than Verisign & Co.). The money you pay is to repay the bribes the secure companies paid the browser makers to include their certificate. > > it's just common for a request to be > > satisfied by serving up a copy of a file, and this is (ab)used as a > > file-transfer mechanism. > > Upload's even more of a mess from what I remember, requiring something > at the server end (be it Perl, compiled CGI, Java or whatever) to handle > and save the incoming data stream - i.e. there's no standard for > actually saving an upload to the filestore. Similarly, if you do want to > administer files behind a web server then the solution is going to be > localised as there's no standard for that either. There's a reason for that---what a webserver serves up may not even *be* a file---it really depends upon the website in question, or even what part of the site you're uploading a "file" to. That's why most webservers farm out the uploading to an external process, although one could always write a module (say, for Apache) to handle it in-server. The intent really, is that a PUT method (of HTTP) "puts" a resource at the given URL. So, I could (although I've yet to do this), write a client that connects to boston.conman.org and issues: PUT /2004/05/28.2 HTTP/1.1 Host: boston.conman.org Content-type: application/x-mod-blog; charset="US-ASCII" Content-length: nnnn title: title of this post catagories: various catagories, blah blah

Here is a post I'm making today ...

And some piece of code on my server (as an Apache module, or an external program that Apache calls) will take the content and store it in the appropriate locations. The actual storage of entries in my online journal isn't a one-to-one file relationship, and the structure I'd use to upload an entry for a URL of http://boston.conman.org/2004/05/28.2 can't be the same as http://boston.conman.org/2004/05 as the latter contains entries for an entire month, and each entry (for the site to work) needs to be stored separately. That's why webservers require something on their end to handle and save the incoming data stream. -spc (I actually use email to update my site 8-) From beclassic at att.net Fri May 28 10:15:26 2004 From: beclassic at att.net (bill bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment Message-ID: <000c01c444c6$a3cc38e0$0200a8c0@old3> Amazing what one finds by browsing. This equipment sale is in mine and Ashley Carder's back yard. The company has been around for maybe 20 years and I heard good things about their system deployment and software in the early 80's. Not aware whether any of their sale items are hard-to-find but felt the list might want to be aware of this source. http://www.macro-inc.com/DECSale.html bill bailey From spc at conman.org Fri May 28 13:36:36 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <16567.16101.257291.82522@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 28, 2004 09:30:13 AM Message-ID: <20040528183636.B6ED010B2CB7@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Paul Koning once stated: > > There are probably more http server exploits than ftp server exploits, > partly because http servers can live on Windows while this is harder > (thought not entirely impossible) for FTP. You haven't had to run wu-ftpd. Almost as bad as sendmail. -spc (hate hate hate wu-ftpd ... ) From spc at conman.org Fri May 28 13:42:11 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405280853.10195.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at May 28, 2004 08:53:10 AM Message-ID: <20040528184211.6956810B2CB7@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Patrick Finnegan once stated: > > On Friday 28 May 2004 03:53, der Mouse wrote: > > HTTP can do the same only to a point. > > Since you seem to be in love with classic protocols, how about this... > at least for non-anonymous transfers, you could just use kermit to > transfer the file over an ssh connection. that'll handle all of your > ftp "corner cases" that http doesn't support (btw, most http servers do > support resuming file transfers these days), and adds functionality. I > don't think even ftp supports some things like changing filesystem > ACLs, or changing your password on the server, for instance. It can, but by using the FTP SITE command to sneak then through. And since it's a site specific implementation, changing ACLs on a VMS FTP server will most likely be different changing ACLs on a UNIX FTP server. > For anonymous transfers, the only thing I can see you'd want that http > doesn't provide (assuming a server and client that support resuming) is > transferring multiple files over a single TCP connection (I don't care > about), or transfering record-mode files from something like VMS (shove > them in an archive format that survives bit-mode transfers). HTTP/1.1 can serve multiple requests on a single session; in fact, for HTTP/1.1 that's the default connection type. -spc (Okay, HTTP is complicated by the fact that there are three versions of the protocol defined ... ) From spectre at floodgap.com Fri May 28 13:59:10 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <200405281635.MAA17790@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from der Mouse at "May 28, 4 12:25:11 pm" Message-ID: <200405281859.LAA10788@floodgap.com> > > Perl is unbelievably commonplace, though. You don't have it/use it? > > No. I don't really like it all that much as a language in its own > right, and I strongly dislike some aspects of the culture that has > grown up around it. Fair enough, but conversely, I'm not a fan of Python and I went to the trouble of building it and maintaining it on my systems here because there were some useful tools that needed it. I don't appreciate Python a whole lot more despite my common interactions with it (even though I've learned enough Python to hack things into submission when required), but whatever tools are needed for the job ... I do note that I've been irritated with the Perl community's transition to more object oriented libraries. Part of the reason I like Perl is that it lets you throw stuff together, and it works (hearing a chorus of high falutin' sniffs from the self-proclaimed computer scientists in the audience, to which I offer you an mildly disparaging command expression of two syllables). I would be greatly distressed if its kindness to quick hacks were to evapourate in the quest for better structured programming, which in Perl's case, is putting a dress on a donkey and not its strong suit. I *like* it because it's randy and uncouth as a programming language, not because it's got any pretensions of organization. :) Sorry, OT off. > > I barely remember life before Perl (and for that matter tcsh -- I > > can't believe I fumbled by on csh all those years in university). > > I had trouble dealing with no command-line editing, so I patched DCL to > add it (and in the process discovered a bug, er, ahem, "undocumented > limitation" in patch). When we switched from VMS to Unix, I _really_ > missed ECL (what I called my patched DCL), so I added command-line > editing to csh. What the result has become by the present day is still > my preferred shell; it differs from tcsh in a number of important-to-me > ways. (One of my back-burner projects is building a new shell entirely > de novo....) The command line editing was what won me over to tcsh. On the vintage systems I run across, the first order of business after busting in is to get a tcsh install and compile it. My funny tcsh story was a guy I knew who had inherited the HP/UX sysadmin job from a friend of mine who moved to the Bay Area. I introduced him to tcsh and he loved it. Unfortunately, being a relative Unix novice (he primarily administered NT systems), he went ahead and set the root default shell to tcsh. So, the next time the machine went into a scheduled reboot, it wouldn't start and he frantically showed up at the office I was using as an outside contractor (this particular HP9000 was the campus administrative server, and downtime was certain death). I didn't know what he'd done to the shell, btw. When I went down to the server room, I couldn't find anything wrong with the disks or system; it just wouldn't finish the startup sequence. HP tech scratched their heads for an hour until some guy in the back of their tech office asked if anything about root had been changed ... and then we figured it out. tcsh had been compiled dynamically linked, and the disk with the shared libraries hadn't been mounted yet. Oops. After resolution and multiuser boot, tcsh was hastily recompiled static. ^_^ -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Eeny, Meeny, Jelly Beanie, the spirits are about to speak! -- Bullwinkle --- From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri May 28 13:44:53 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci In-Reply-To: <20040528183636.B6ED010B2CB7@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <200405281439640.SM03584@bobdev> Some of you may remember me asking a few months ago about a dead Iici - wouldn't power up, and I swapped power supplies. A few people suggested that a cap on the main board might have blown, which jogged my memory to a few nights before when I thought I had heard a pop come from the room where the Iici was plugged in. On my list of things to do is to move the hard drive and RAM from the "dead" Iici to another system. But in the meantime, I had left the Iici plugged in. Today (about 2 to 3 months later) I walked by, and noticed the fan is running on it. I haven't hooked up a monitor to it to see if it is indeed booted, but I will later. I'm afraid to turn it off again for fear that it won't boot. Has anyone ever heard of a popped cap coming back to life? Maybe the problem was something else? That machine has broken SIMM sockets and I've got the SIMM's jimmied to stand straight with folded pieces of paper forced between the SIMMs. It seems to work reasonably well. Is it possible that a SIMM, slightly out of position, could cause the system to not power up (no fan, no power anywhere)? - Bob From tomj at wps.com Fri May 28 13:55:47 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <16565.57980.528000.476245@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16565.57980.528000.476245@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1085770546.2603.10.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 05:43, Paul Koning wrote: > In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from the > metal shaft of the screwdriver. As a general rule, OK, but it's not necessary if the screwdriver shaft is actually grounded, which is the whole point of the exercise. I still recommend the salt bath. From cb at mythtech.net Fri May 28 14:02:02 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci Message-ID: >Today (about 2 to 3 months later) I walked by, and noticed the fan is >running on it. I haven't hooked up a monitor to it to see if it is indeed >booted, but I will later. I'm afraid to turn it off again for fear that it >won't boot. If there was no monitor attached when it booted, then connecting one now will NOT give you a picture. The Mac disables the video card on most models if there isn't a monitor plugged in at the time of boot. So if you connect one, and get no picture, that doesn't mean it isn't running. >That machine has broken SIMM sockets and I've got the SIMM's jimmied to >stand straight with folded pieces of paper forced between the SIMMs. It >seems to work reasonably well. Is it possible that a SIMM, slightly out of >position, could cause the system to not power up (no fan, no power >anywhere)? A loose simm chip should have given you chimes of doom (or whatever the IIci does, I think that one actually does a car crash noise) when it booted. It might have done it if it booted when you weren't around. Now it will be sitting at a sad mac screen waiting for you to do something. But you can't tell, because no monitor is attached. :-) -chris From tomj at wps.com Fri May 28 14:02:29 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <200405272253.PAA21765@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200405272253.PAA21765@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1085770948.2603.13.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> > >Probably as much POWER as a nine-volt battery or two. If it had much > >more, it would have been an unsafe display, as it's S.K.O.P. (*) to > >either not see, or ignore, or spite, safety warnings, and kid science > >museums certainly know that! On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 15:53, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > There is quite enough energy in a normal 9 volt battery to > kill a person. It might need a little conversion but > the total amount of energy stored there is quite large. > I would suspect that there is several times less energy in\ YES yes yes... but you have to admit this argument is a bit pedantic.My point was casual, and I imagine the list of people murdered with 9V radio batteries is rather short. From wacarder at usit.net Fri May 28 14:12:07 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <000c01c444c6$a3cc38e0$0200a8c0@old3> Message-ID: Bill, Thanks for the lead. I've already called Ed at Macro-inc and talked to him about his inventory. I've driven by his place a thousand or more times, but never knew he did DEC equipment. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of bill bailey Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:15 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Pres@macro-inc.com Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment Amazing what one finds by browsing. This equipment sale is in mine and Ashley Carder's back yard. The company has been around for maybe 20 years and I heard good things about their system deployment and software in the early 80's. Not aware whether any of their sale items are hard-to-find but felt the list might want to be aware of this source. http://www.macro-inc.com/DECSale.html bill bailey From spectre at floodgap.com Fri May 28 14:20:41 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:55 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci In-Reply-To: from chris at "May 28, 4 03:02:02 pm" Message-ID: <200405281920.MAA14228@floodgap.com> > A loose simm chip should have given you chimes of doom (or whatever the > IIci does, I think that one actually does a car crash noise) when it > booted. I think it's car crash, too (but it could also be big-fat-nothing). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- What happens when you get scared half-to-death twice? ---------------------- From tomj at wps.com Fri May 28 14:17:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <200405280006.UAA04416@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200405280006.UAA04416@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1085771830.2603.16.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 17:04, der Mouse wrote: > >> In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from the > >> metal shaft of the screwdriver. > > Considering the shaft is connected to ground through a very low > > resistance in your set-up, what's the harm in touching it ? > > (a) You might knock the alligator clip loose. > > (b) You or something else might knock the other alligator clip loose. > > (c) The path, even if intact, is low resistance but not necessarily low > impedance; if the current spike can throw enough EMI to kill > semiconductors, it can generate enough back EMF to do unpleasant things > to people touching the HV end of it. I'm sorry, but this is all very silly. A meteor could smash you dead too, it's just not a real worry. You have actual control over the puny alligator clip. Live large! I knew this thread would get out of hand... From cb at mythtech.net Fri May 28 14:19:12 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci Message-ID: >> A loose simm chip should have given you chimes of doom (or whatever the >> IIci does, I think that one actually does a car crash noise) when it >> booted. > >I think it's car crash, too (but it could also be big-fat-nothing). Somewhere I have an Apple Spec database that includes the noise each Mac makes when it reports a problem. I don't see it on my hard drive now, so I must have archived it at some point. I'll have to dig around and figure out where it went. Of course, you could ruin your uptime on your IIci with NetBSD and shut it down, loosen a simm chip, and boot it up. Then you would know for sure :-) -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri May 28 14:13:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms References: Message-ID: <40B78F71.8050205@jetnet.ab.ca> McFadden, Mike wrote: > Flooded computer room > Our computer room was on the 11th floor of an office building. The > cooling was based on a unit that used the cold water feed into the > building as a cooling source. The air handler was in the computer room > also included a humidifier. The float valve on the humidifier stuck and > flooded the room under the floor. We noticed/felt "high humidity" on > Monday morning. No water was visible. We pulled up a floor tile and > there was 2 inches of water under the entire floor. All of the cables > were in water. Most of the terminal cables were threaded through the > channels in the floors to other offices; all of the channels were also > full of water. > > Everything was still running. > > We got a dehumidifier, pulled up a few floor tiles and dried the room > out. We placed rag wicks down in the channels to draw out the water so > we could evaporate it. All of the cables were covered with dust, grime > and rust colored crud that dried on them from the water. > > Mike I remember reading once a similar story, about a VALVE computer in the late 1970's, Now those cables under the floor had REAL power flowing through them. Ben. From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri May 28 14:22:32 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope References: <200405280006.UAA04416@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085771830.2603.16.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: <16567.37240.602883.370575@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 17:04, der Mouse wrote: >> >> In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away >> from the >> metal shaft of the screwdriver. > Considering the >> shaft is connected to ground through a very low > resistance in >> your set-up, what's the harm in touching it ? >> >> (a) You might knock the alligator clip loose. >> >> (b) You or something else might knock the other alligator clip >> loose. >> >> (c) The path, even if intact, is low resistance but not >> necessarily low impedance; if the current spike can throw enough >> EMI to kill semiconductors, it can generate enough back EMF to do >> unpleasant things to people touching the HV end of it. Tom> I'm sorry, but this is all very silly. A meteor could smash you Tom> dead too, it's just not a real worry. You have actual control Tom> over the puny alligator clip. Live large! Skydivers and aviators are taught not to assume that all pieces of hardware are necessarily in the state that their designers intended. This warning applies that principle.... paul From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri May 28 14:19:25 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope References: <200405280006.UAA04416@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085771830.2603.16.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: <40B790BD.6010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > > I'm sorry, but this is all very silly. A meteor could smash you dead > too, it's just not a real worry. You have actual control over the puny > alligator clip. Live large! > I am going to play it safe , not to use alligator clips during a meteor shower. > I knew this thread would get out of hand... Now this is out of hand. :) From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri May 28 14:31:44 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405281526109.SM01360@bobdev> > If there was no monitor attached when it booted, then connecting one now will NOT give you a picture. The Mac disables the video card on most models if there isn't a monitor plugged in at the time of boot. I have a Mac to VGA adapter connected... Specifically the Belkin model which adapts Mac video to VGA and ADB to PS/2 mouse and keyboard. I just didn't have a VGA monitor connected to that when the Mac "decided" to power on. Will I still get no video? - Bob From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 28 14:28:43 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment References: Message-ID: <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I've known about macro-inc site for years now, but haven't looked for a while. I just checked, and his prices have definitely increased since the last time I looked. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:12 PM Subject: RE: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment > Bill, > > Thanks for the lead. I've already called Ed at Macro-inc and talked to him > about his inventory. I've driven by his place a thousand or more times, but > never knew he did DEC equipment. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of bill bailey > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:15 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Cc: Pres@macro-inc.com > Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment > > > Amazing what one finds by browsing. This equipment sale is in mine and > Ashley Carder's back yard. The company has been around for maybe 20 years > and I heard good things about their system deployment and software in the > early 80's. Not aware whether any of their sale items are hard-to-find but > felt the list might want to be aware of this source. > > http://www.macro-inc.com/DECSale.html > > bill bailey > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jpl15 at panix.com Fri May 28 14:35:25 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <40B790BD.6010803@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200405280006.UAA04416@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085771830.2603.16.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> <40B790BD.6010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > > I'm sorry, but this is all very silly. A meteor could smash you dead > > too, it's just not a real worry. You have actual control over the puny > > alligator clip. Live large! > > > I am going to play it safe , not to use alligator clips during a meteor > shower. > > > I knew this thread would get out of hand... > > > Now this is out of hand. :) No; warning against using meteor clips during an alligator shower is out of hand.... Cheers T. Geisel From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri May 28 14:47:57 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci In-Reply-To: <200405281526109.SM01360@bobdev> References: <200405281526109.SM01360@bobdev> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040528124722.01eda6c0@mail.zipcon.net> you should get video, since the belkin adapter makes it look to the mac videocard like a monitor is present At 12:31 PM 5/28/2004, you wrote: > > If there was no monitor attached when it booted, then connecting one now >will NOT give you a picture. The Mac disables the video card on most models >if there isn't a monitor plugged in at the time of boot. > >I have a Mac to VGA adapter connected... Specifically the Belkin model which >adapts Mac video to VGA and ADB to PS/2 mouse and keyboard. I just didn't >have a VGA monitor connected to that when the Mac "decided" to power on. >Will I still get no video? > > - Bob From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri May 28 14:41:11 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200405281241.11921.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I think I purchased the last batch of Qbus boards before Ed raised his prices. Ed is an honest broker and I've had good experience with him over some time. Lyle On Friday 28 May 2004 12:28, Jay West wrote: > I've known about macro-inc site for years now, but haven't looked for a > while. I just checked, and his prices have definitely increased since the > last time I looked. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Carder" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Cc: > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:12 PM > Subject: RE: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment > > > Bill, > > > > Thanks for the lead. I've already called Ed at Macro-inc and talked to > > him > > > about his inventory. I've driven by his place a thousand or more times, > > but > > > never knew he did DEC equipment. > > > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of bill bailey > > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:15 AM > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Cc: Pres@macro-inc.com > > Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment > > > > > > Amazing what one finds by browsing. This equipment sale is in mine and > > Ashley Carder's back yard. The company has been around for maybe 20 > > years and I heard good things about their system deployment and software > > in the early 80's. Not aware whether any of their sale items are > > hard-to-find > > but > > > felt the list might want to be aware of this source. > > > > http://www.macro-inc.com/DECSale.html > > > > bill bailey > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From elf at ucsd.edu Fri May 28 15:29:35 2004 From: elf at ucsd.edu (Eric F.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Lear Siegler ADM-3A CRT problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040527135814.00bd5860@popmail.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528132935.00bd3dc0@popmail.ucsd.edu> > Based on the picture, I would guess this is the > problem that's been discussed on-list in the past, > where something glued to the front of the CRT develops > problems. ... dOh! You are certainly correct, der Mouse. This problem was discussed on-list previously. My bad. For those interested, search the archives for "hp 262x terminal help sought". Kind regards, Eric From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 15:19:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <200405281742.i4SHgxi03501@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <"Your message of Wed, 26 May 2004 19:42:10 EDT." Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528161936.0098faf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:42 PM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote: > >I thought these were fuse link proms. Can one get eeprom's which are >compatible? NO! I've already looked into this for the HP 1000s. The bipolar PROMs ar >>much<< faster. They're narrower and shorter physically and have only 16 pins and are very different electrically. > >I have a device which can read/blow these proms, btw. > >My 11/34 has: > > 248F1 - console > 217F1 - ? > 764A9 - ts04 > 751A9 - rl01 (boots my rl02, btw) > 690A9 - ? > >The 690 and 217 are soldered in. I'd be happy to read/post the other if >anyone wants them. > >and, I could blow new proms if the parts are available. Do you have a programmer that can handle Bipolar PROMs? Joe > >-brad > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 15:37:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs (data i/o help needed) In-Reply-To: <60817.216.218.236.136.1085709367.squirrel@mail.sasquatch.c om> References: <000901c4437a$72da0b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <000901c4437a$72da0b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528163733.00924430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> (1) I have a 29A manual but there's no device codes in it. The codes are in the manual for the particular plugin that you're using so you'll have to tell us which one you're using. (2) I think I have a 29B manual but I'll have to look for it. (3) I didn't think the 29x programmers could program Bipolar PROMs but I'd be happy for someone to prove me wrong! (4) FYI Just because the PROMs are 82S131, Am27S13, 63S241, 74S571, etc don't think that they're all the same. They may be interchangeable in a read-only operataion but they're programmed very differently. You MUST have the proper settings and adapaters for the PROM that you're using. Joe At 06:56 PM 5/27/04 -0700, you wrote: >I made images of all my roms, but the burner I used is ancient and >non-standard so they likely won't help, I want to read them with >something a little more standard, a DATAI/O 29b... has anyone got the >"device code" for the 82S131? > >thanks, > Pavl_ > >> sure I'll host it. I'll just put it under www.classiccmp.org/M9312 >> >> Someone just give me the files! >> >> Jay >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John A. Dundas III" >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:31 PM >> Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs >> >> >>> I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 >>> bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I >have >>> a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I >>> don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to >go. >>> >>> Any images already archived? >>> >>> Any volunteers to host a collection? >>> >>> John > > > > From cb at mythtech.net Fri May 28 15:54:33 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci Message-ID: >I have a Mac to VGA adapter connected... Specifically the Belkin model which >adapts Mac video to VGA and ADB to PS/2 mouse and keyboard. I just didn't >have a VGA monitor connected to that when the Mac "decided" to power on. >Will I still get no video? You should be ok then. Most Mac to VGA adaptors will fool the Mac into thinking a monitor is connected. -chris From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 15:52:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: for sale etiquette? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > The media are (not "is") _wrong_. > > All languages change - just accept that "hacker" is basically negative > these days, and trying to argue otherwise basically just pisses people > off. > > Myself? I'm rather gay, seeing a 3803 Tape Controller that will soon be > mine. Oh, wait, maybe I should just say happy... That's fat, homey! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 15:53:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <40B54EE4.1070406@hp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > BTW, just so you know, I'm located in Malaysia. > p.s. Out of curiosity, any collectors from Asia? Cool! Our first Malaysian collector! VCF Asia is on! :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri May 28 15:33:17 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: <1085740752.3081.37.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <10405280036.ZM26695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040528103907.03a8881c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200405280930.FAA16163@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740752.3081.37.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200405282059.QAA19487@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Afte reading over the last bunch of messages in the thread, I think it's probably fair to say that - Both HTTP and FTP have a lot more capabilities than are routinely used; each provides the potential to do what the other can, with varying degrees of kludgitude. Both, for example, support anonymous access, passworded access, more complex authentication/authorization mechanisms, and SSL protection. - Both are fairly heavyweight and bloated; the major difference is where the bloat lurks (FTP's wire protocol is significantly more complex, but once the wire protocol is dealt with, FTP is basically done whereas HTTP's issues are just beginning). - The commonest clients emphasize different things and thus support differently-directed subsets of the protocols (for example, a greater proportion of clients support SSL for HTTP than for FTP; but a greater proportion of clients support file renaming for FTP than for HTTP). Two individual points (drawn from different messages) > scp? Never used it. How portable is it to different platforms? It's reasonably widely implemented across platforms that have a mostly-Unix view of files (the "file is just a big array of octets" paradigm). It's a bad match to the sort of more complex file that FTP record or page structures are designed for. Its dependence on crypto is not really that bad. If you're willing to support only a few crypto algorithms, you don't need much code (and I speak from experience here; I've done an ssh implementation that's not quite completely ready yet, but is most of the way there, and the crypto is actually a fairly small fraction of it). > There are probably more http server exploits than ftp server > exploits, [...] I suspect there are more webserver exploits than ftp server exploits for three reasons: (1) There are a lot more webservers than FTP servers running out there, thus, more cracker attention is paid to them. (2) $EVERYBODY and $DOG wants a website, but not an FTP site, so a greater proportion of websites than ftp sites are run by admins who are, ahem, less than tremedously competent. (3) Culturally, webservers are required to be all-singing-all-dancing, whereas FTP servers are not: it's the rare FTP server that computes content with perl scripts on demand, but it's the rare webserver that doesn't. None of these have much to do with which protocol is better suited to any particular task, or which is more secure when locked down to a given level of functionality. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri May 28 16:24:32 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs (data i/o help needed) Message-ID: <200405282124.i4SLOWhc028712@huey.classiccmp.org> At 16:37 28/05/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > (1) I have a 29A manual but there's no device codes in it. The codes are >in the manual for the particular plugin that you're using so you'll have to >tell us which one you're using. There are some large text files with listing for at least the Unipak2B, LogicPak and the gang banger available on the net somewhere - I know cuz I just recently downloaded em - found with a google search for "Data I/O 29B" I believe. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 16:20:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Help identifying AppleII cards? In-Reply-To: <200405280634.i4S6YIjU015266@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > #1 ISAAC INTERFACE BOARD D91A-8318 REVC > > Copyright 1981 by CYBORG CORP > > > Eric Smith is looking for one of these to go with the ISAAC that > I found for him a few weeks ago.. What's an ISAAC? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Fri May 28 16:42:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 May 2004 16:19:36 EDT." <3.0.6.32.20040528161936.0098faf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200405282142.i4SLgda06356@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Joe R." wrote: > > Do you have a programmer that can handle Bipolar PROMs? I thought I did, but I was wrong, sorry. One model too low :-) It's a hack, but I would think a simple "prom to eprom" adapter would work with the speed of today's eeproms... -brad From Pres at macro-inc.com Fri May 28 16:37:06 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <200405281241.11921.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528155317.0343a598@192.168.0.1> At 03:41 PM 5/28/2004, you wrote: >I think I purchased the last batch of Qbus boards before Ed raised his >prices. >Ed is an honest broker and I've had good experience with him over some time. > >Lyle > > >On Friday 28 May 2004 12:28, Jay West wrote: > > I've known about macro-inc site for years now, but haven't looked for a > > while. I just checked, and his prices have definitely increased since the > > last time I looked. > > Thank you, Lyle. Bill Bailey copied me on his post starting this thread. I wasn't aware of the list, so I signed on to see what was happening. Yes, I bumped most of the prices up when I saw the stuff actually moving. Sorry, no excuse but crass commercialism on my part. :-) I don't think I'm really a broker in the sense I buy stuff to resell. What I'm selling is what I've accumulated over the last 25+ years of working with DEC PDP11 systems. I still have a customer with 4 PDP11 systems that I have 24/7 service contracts on. This DEC stuff (and some old PC stuff) just sat on the shelf because I was too lazy, and too much the packrat, to toss it. In the old days to sell this stuff you'd have to take an ad in The Processor or some other print magazine. Way too expensive for a part-timer with a small inventory. Now with the Internet, Google, and my own server, my cost of sales is practically nil. Pricing depends on a lot of things, one of which is the number and type of buyers your product is exposed to. With the Internet, it's huge, both in numbers and diversity. How huge, I didn't really consider when I first set prices on my stuff. I just wanted someone to come buy it all so I could buy some other toys. But with a huge market, one in which you can reach *all* potential buyers, I realized that I didn't need to price something so low someone would buy it even if they didn't really want it. And, if they wanted it, and availability was scarce, price didn't matter much either. Now I know this may strike some on this list as a little crass, and not in the spirit of classic, or vintage computing. I agree. It would be much nicer to give things away in a public spirited way to promote the hobby. And I do some of that too. I'm scanning some Emulex manuals I have, to send, along with Emulex tape and disk formatting software, to a guy who as a public service has posted old manuals on his site. http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/ But this isn't really my hobby or avocation, something else is. The little I make selling old DEC stuff supports my other interests. My "market" isn't really people on this list either. My thinking, and I may be all wet, is that folks on this list like to tinker and cobble stuff together as much as they like to use what they've put together. I'm like that myself. But I figured there are people who don't really want, or have the time, to tinker. They'd just like to play Plane or Advent or Dungeo (6.3 names) on a PDP11. Some folks camp with tents, others with RV's. So I took a bunch of the parts and put together some complete PDP11 systems. Since I have other hobbies to fund, I decided to put a good price on them and wait for a buyer. And Lo!, they're out there. :-) I had some QBus disk controllers listed on the website at give away prices. No one bought them, so I put them together with cables, drives and enclosures, all tested, formatted and ready to go. Again, nothing magic to folks on this list, but just the thing someone else might be looking for. Plus I liked tinkering them together. :-) I make my living developing systems for gamma ray inspection of nuclear fuel. My avocation and hobby, where I'll put the little extra I make selling old DEC stuff, is firearms related. I like to shoot and I'm a licensed firearms dealer but that just helps with my real hobby which is promoting the rights of citizens to have and use firearms as they wish. I do that as president of GrassRoots GunRights South Carolina. www.scfirearms.org And now that I'm *completely* out of hand, I'll sign off. :-) Ed Kelleher From aek at spies.com Fri May 28 16:57:02 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Data I/O device pinout codes Message-ID: <200405282157.i4SLv2Js012595@spies.com> "29B" is the base programmer, you need to know what programming adapter you have. Unipak 2 or 2B is the most common but doesn't support some of the older parts. Select codes can be found at http://www.geocities.com/jkh9081/dataIO/ or on Data I/O's ftp site ftp://ftp.dataio.com/device_lists/_archive/ From aek at spies.com Fri May 28 17:00:31 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Help identifying AppleII cards? Message-ID: <200405282200.i4SM0VAT013226@spies.com> > What's an ISAAC? -- A lab A/D D/A and digital I/O box that sat on top of the IIe with similar styling. From acme at gbronline.com Fri May 28 17:03:10 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? References: Message-ID: <00a501c444ff$91ab7a20$9f4f0945@thegoodw> There's only one problem with Joe's story. There were *no* VWs when he was a kid. Glen 0/0 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > On Thu, 27 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > LOL! I'd forgotten about that. When I was a kid a gator parked itself > > under my neighbor's VW. The neighbor came out and found it and tried to > > chase it off with a broom. The gator stood up on all four legs and picked > > up the VW and headed for a nearby lake with the VW on it's back! Then the > > neighbor had to run in front of the gator and try to chase it back into the > > yard to keep from losing the VW! Needless to say, things got pretty > > exciting for a while! > > That's the funniest thing I've herad all day (it's still early though). > Too bad there wasn't a video camera around. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From dundas at caltech.edu Fri May 28 17:02:28 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528155317.0343a598@192.168.0.1> References: <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20040528155317.0343a598@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: Ed, Nothing against you. At 5:37 PM -0400 5/28/04, Ed Kelleher wrote: >a guy who as a public service has posted old manuals on his site. > >http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/ However this guy is blocking all of Caltech. Not much of a public service. John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 16:54:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs (data i/o help needed) In-Reply-To: <200405282124.i4SLOWhc028712@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528175426.00962790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I THINK Al might have some of those on his website. But I have paper copies so if he'll post what he has I can look it up. Joe At 04:24 PM 5/28/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 16:37 28/05/2004 -0400, you wrote: >> >> (1) I have a 29A manual but there's no device codes in it. The codes are >>in the manual for the particular plugin that you're using so you'll have to >>tell us which one you're using. > >There are some large text files with listing for at least the Unipak2B, LogicPak >and the gang banger available on the net somewhere - I know cuz I just recently >downloaded em - found with a google search for "Data I/O 29B" I believe. > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 16:57:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs In-Reply-To: <200405282142.i4SLgda06356@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <"Your message of Fri, 28 May 2004 16:19:36 EDT." <3.0.6.32.20040528161936.0098faf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528175701.008b0d00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:42 PM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote: > >"Joe R." wrote: >> >> Do you have a programmer that can handle Bipolar PROMs? > >I thought I did, but I was wrong, sorry. One model too low :-) > >It's a hack, but I would think a simple "prom to eprom" adapter would >work with the speed of today's eeproms... I don't know what spped the M9312 PROMs are rated at but I was just looking at my notes about the Bipolar PROMs used in the HP 1000. They're rated at 60nS. Can you get EPROMs that are that fast? Joe > >-brad > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 17:10:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <00a501c444ff$91ab7a20$9f4f0945@thegoodw> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528181024.00962770@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Boy, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black! My first VW was a '58 chassis with a '63 engine and a Myer's Manx body. Now how many of you remember THAT? Joe At 06:03 PM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote: >There's only one problem with Joe's story. There were *no* VWs when he was >a kid. > >Glen >0/0 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >> On Thu, 27 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > LOL! I'd forgotten about that. When I was a kid a gator parked itself >> > under my neighbor's VW. The neighbor came out and found it and tried to >> > chase it off with a broom. The gator stood up on all four legs and >picked >> > up the VW and headed for a nearby lake with the VW on it's back! Then >the >> > neighbor had to run in front of the gator and try to chase it back into >the >> > yard to keep from losing the VW! Needless to say, things got pretty >> > exciting for a while! >> >> That's the funniest thing I've herad all day (it's still early though). >> Too bad there wasn't a video camera around. >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 17:13:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528155317.0343a598@192.168.0.1> <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <004b01c444e9$fd1e32e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20040528155317.0343a598@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528181304.00950100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:02 PM 5/28/04 -0700, John wrote: >Ed, > >Nothing against you. > >At 5:37 PM -0400 5/28/04, Ed Kelleher wrote: >>a guy who as a public service has posted old manuals on his site. >> >>http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/ > >However this guy is blocking all of Caltech. Not much of a public service. And? From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 28 17:11:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: from "John A. Dundas III" at May 28, 2004 03:02:28 PM Message-ID: <200405282211.i4SMBheP008198@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Ed, > > Nothing against you. > > At 5:37 PM -0400 5/28/04, Ed Kelleher wrote: > >a guy who as a public service has posted old manuals on his site. > > > >http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/ > > However this guy is blocking all of Caltech. Not much of a public service. > > John > Again, nothing against Ed, but... The owner of that website is also a total A** **** about people linking to his site. Link to his site and you'll probably find that any traffic following that link gets redirected to an obscene website. Several people have had *very* unpleasent dealings with him. I'd personally recommend sending any scans to Al for bitsavers.org. Zane From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri May 28 17:17:01 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 Message-ID: Hi folks, Anyone come across a beige TI99/4A before? I'd previously thought all beige machines were early TI99/4s but last week I was sent a boxed 'Texas Instruments 99/4A' that's very beige and hopefully very working....not had a chance to test it yet. In other news I'm celebrating one month at my new job; it's great to be back in a fully equipped workshop with 'scope access and loads of DEC stuff amongst other things, so once I'm settled in my new weekday flat (I come home at weekends, a nice 500 mile round trip) I'll be able to take dead machines down for repair...... -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 28 17:26:32 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: References: <200405260808.EAA13784@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Thu, May 27, 2004 at 04:26:39PM -0400: > All languages change - just accept that "hacker" is basically negative > these days, and trying to argue otherwise basically just pisses people > off. If arguing about using the word 'hacker' properly pisses some people off, then they deserve to be pissed off and hackers should take great pleasure in pissing them off. It's called offending the offensive in need of offending. :-) > Myself? I'm rather gay, seeing a 3803 Tape Controller that will soon be > mine. Oh, wait, maybe I should just say happy... [time for my politically incorrect statement of the week] I vote that we take that word back. No offense to homosexuals, but someone needs to clue them into the fact that they've been using the word 'gay' incorrectly for far too long; they're not the only ones with the right to be called happy people. How that started, I don't know, but it leads one to guess that perhaps, at one time, some of them must have had difficulty with five syllable words, and since the word 'ho', which could have been used as an abbreviation, had already been stolen (from Santa Claus) by some inner-city people, who apparently had difficulty with larger one syllable words, especially those that began with what they thought was the wrong letter, they had to find some other monosyllable word to use. Any other words to add to the list of words to be reunited with their rightful meanings? -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri May 28 17:20:16 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <00a501c444ff$91ab7a20$9f4f0945@thegoodw> References: <00a501c444ff$91ab7a20$9f4f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: <1085782816.3081.64.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 22:03, Glen Goodwin wrote: > There's only one problem with Joe's story. There were *no* VWs when he was > a kid. Well they've been around since what, late 1930's? The Kombi was a bit later, late 40's I think. Of course I have no idea when they made it to your side of the pond... cheers Jules From jpl15 at panix.com Fri May 28 17:24:28 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside a computer? In-Reply-To: <00a501c444ff$91ab7a20$9f4f0945@thegoodw> References: <00a501c444ff$91ab7a20$9f4f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2004, Glen Goodwin wrote: > There's only one problem with Joe's story. There were *no* VWs when he was > a kid. 1936 wasn't all *that* long ago..... you're right. Cheers Ferdi Poarsh From Pres at macro-inc.com Fri May 28 17:36:30 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <200405282211.i4SMBheP008198@onyx.spiritone.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528183612.02c5b798@192.168.0.1> At 06:11 PM 5/28/2004, you wrote: >I'd personally recommend sending any scans to Al for bitsavers.org. Ok, I have a QD01 manual I don't see that he has listed. Ed From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri May 28 17:49:46 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528183612.02c5b798@192.168.0.1> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528183612.02c5b798@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <20040528224946.GA17193@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 06:36:30PM -0400, Ed Kelleher wrote: > At 06:11 PM 5/28/2004, you wrote: > >I'd personally recommend sending any scans to Al for bitsavers.org. > > Ok, I have a QD01 manual I don't see that he has listed. Might you have a CS-21 manual? I _think_ it's a Systems Industries board. It appears to be a SCSI adapter and was represented as such when a former boss gave it to me. I have not been able to get it to do much in the absence of jumper settings. It might be TMSCP only, I'm just not sure about it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-May-2004 22:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -95.0 F (-70.7 C) Windchill -136.6 F (-93.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.1 kts Grid 064 Barometer 675.6 mb (10792. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From joe at barrera.org Fri May 28 17:56:06 2004 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: List of Words and Meanings Reunited In-Reply-To: <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200405260808.EAA13784@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40B7C386.9040607@barrera.org> R. D. Davis wrote: > > Myself? I'm rather gay, seeing a 3803 Tape Controller that will > > soon be mine. Oh, wait, maybe I should just say happy... > > [time for my politically incorrect statement of the week] > > I vote that we take that word back. No offense to homosexuals, but > someone needs to clue them into the fact that they've been using the > word 'gay' incorrectly for far too long; they're not the only ones > with the right to be called happy people. How that started, I don't Oh, there are enough other words for happy. And there is no better word for gay than "gay". If you need a new word for happy and energetic, you can borrow the Japanese "genki". Language changes. Don't worry; be gay. - Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 17:20:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: <200405280538.BAA15527@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at May 28, 4 01:34:56 am Message-ID: > > >> [...joystick port MIDI converter...] Mine cost me CAD 34.45, TTC, > >> around the middle of last August. > > Hacking together a very simple circuit with an opto-isolator, a few > > resistors, diodes, etc. costs a lot less. There are several circuits > > available on the 'net. > > Sure, and I imagine I could design one myself easily enough - I know > _that_ much about electronics. It's not exactly complicated, the only thing you'd need would be a spec of what the Soundblaster was expecting. > > But I don't have any suitable optoisolators on hand (I found only one, > and its output device was a mains-voltage triac), and the hassle factor Raid one from an old SMPSU (they're often used in the voltage regulation feebcak circuit)? > of obtaining some was enough to outweigh the extra dollars the pre-made > adapter cost me. It may not apply here, but I've seen cheap cables and adapters that are so poorly soldered that you have to completely rebuild them. In which case it's probably less hassle to make it yourself in the first place. > > Besides, by the time you add in mounting and housing, the cost for the > homebrew has probably at least doubled, in money and time both. I used to estimate {Cost of main components} * 3. Anyway, if you just want a quick-n-dirty hack why bother to house it? Mount the board ont he DA15 plug or something. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 17:26:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: OT: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: <200405280853.JAA01570@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at May 28, 4 09:53:50 am Message-ID: [Kodak cameras] > > While I agree with you about the Retin*, > > But what about the Ektra? Has anyone actually seen one? They were I've only seen pictures of the Ektra. I'd love to see (or even better to own and dismantle [1]) one. [1] I like to at leat pull the covers on fine machinery and admire the beauty within. > extremely expensive new. > > > (Flavour of the month chez moi is pinhole cameras - I've been out > and about with my 10x8 box camera - an antidote to digital!) I will only consider buying a digital camera when (a) they give a better resolution and noise figure than my existing film cameras (some of which use 5" * 4" sheet film...) and (b) are designed to last as long as said film cameras (many of which are over 50 years old and still going strong). I do have a digital camera, and it's on-topic (as it's well over 10 years old). It's a Datacopy 300, which uses a linear (1 - dimensional) CCD tracked across the image plane with a leadscrew. I also have the interface card for it, for the PERQ of course. One day I must have a go at getting it all working... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 17:34:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: VT52s wanted In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at May 28, 4 07:03:08 am Message-ID: > > Yep, That was my plan. I've never done that kind of thing before, > but I'm ready to try. You're right, the boards don't look very > complicated. How big is the printset that you have? The printset _I_ have is a ssetion in a much larger printset, covering the Lab 11/03 (LSI 11/03 + ADC, DAC, etc cards). I assume it's avallable separately, isn't it on Bitsavers? The other thing I have is the Microfiche trchnical manual for the VT50 (a closely related terminal, with only 12 lines IIRC). This includes a commented source of the microcode.... Anyway, The VT52 logic is not that complicated, but it might throw you the first time. It's built a as a very specialised 'processor' with a simple 7 bit data path. If you're not used to working on processors, now is the time to learn! Anway, as you have 2 units, I'd start by swapping over the microcode PROMs as a set (they're socketed), just to rule them out. Of course if you have dumps of them, you can verify them using a PROM programmer. I'd then attack the more-working unit (if only because, being a processor-like design, for it to do anything correctly much of the logic has to be working). I'd see if the keyboard is being scanned at all (IIRC it's scanned in firmware), if not, find out why not. if it is, check the condition logic, and so on. For the really dead one, I'd make sure the clock was running, and that the microcode address lines are not stuck. I've had the address latches fail in other microcoded systems (including an 11/05, and that was 'fun'...) Then see what it thinks it's doing, and if it's doing it correctly. You really need a logic analyser, but it is possible to get a long way without one... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 17:39:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <16567.14407.839613.105899@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at May 28, 4 09:01:59 am Message-ID: > > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: > > Tony> Use a limiting resistor! > > But not a 100 ohm one -- that might as well be a short. A megaohm is > probably better. Voltage rating may be an issue. Yes. Most small resistors are only rated for 300V or so, so you need 100 of them in series, really. Try using 100 off 100k or 1M :-)... High voltage resistors do exist (I've used some rated at 7.5kV, which means you only need 4 of them), but you need to be careful how you mount them. If you do a lot of work on CRT based stuff, you should get an EHT proble. It's really just a high-value HV resistor, either with a built-in microammeter in series, or as part of a potential divider to use with your DMM). It's good for discharging the CRT, and it's useful for checking the EHT is there in the first place. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 18:16:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: 2000C A guide to Time-shared BASIC Hewlett Packard 1971 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528191641.0094c4a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From spectre at floodgap.com Fri May 28 18:35:52 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: List of Words and Meanings Reunited In-Reply-To: <40B7C386.9040607@barrera.org> from "Joseph S. Barrera III" at "May 28, 4 03:56:06 pm" Message-ID: <200405282335.QAA14776@floodgap.com> > Oh, there are enough other words for happy. And there is no better > word for gay than "gay". If you need a new word for happy and > energetic, you can borrow the Japanese "genki". Shiawase tte ka? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- If you're not very clever, you should be conciliatory. -- Benjamin Disraeli From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 18:18:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <1085771830.2603.16.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 17:04, der Mouse wrote: > > >> In this process, be sure you keep your fingertips WELL away from the > > >> metal shaft of the screwdriver. > > > Considering the shaft is connected to ground through a very low > > > resistance in your set-up, what's the harm in touching it ? > > > > (a) You might knock the alligator clip loose. > > > > (b) You or something else might knock the other alligator clip loose. > > > > (c) The path, even if intact, is low resistance but not necessarily low > > impedance; if the current spike can throw enough EMI to kill > > semiconductors, it can generate enough back EMF to do unpleasant things > > to people touching the HV end of it. > > I'm sorry, but this is all very silly. A meteor could smash you dead > too, it's just not a real worry. You have actual control over the puny > alligator clip. Live large! > > I knew this thread would get out of hand... They aren't called "nerds" for nothing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From donm at cts.com Fri May 28 18:36:51 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside acomputer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040528181024.00962770@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Boy, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black! My first VW was a > '58 chassis with a '63 engine and a Myer's Manx body. Now how many of you > remember THAT? > > Joe Well, it wasn't mine - belonged to a cohort at work - but the first one that I ever drove was a well thrashed '47 bug replete with 'crash box'. That was in about '55, I think. It was a real gas! - don > At 06:03 PM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote: > >There's only one problem with Joe's story. There were *no* VWs when he was > >a kid. > > > >Glen > >0/0 > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > > >> On Thu, 27 May 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> > >> > LOL! I'd forgotten about that. When I was a kid a gator parked itself > >> > under my neighbor's VW. The neighbor came out and found it and tried to > >> > chase it off with a broom. The gator stood up on all four legs and > >picked > >> > up the VW and headed for a nearby lake with the VW on it's back! Then > >the > >> > neighbor had to run in front of the gator and try to chase it back into > >the > >> > yard to keep from losing the VW! Needless to say, things got pretty > >> > exciting for a while! > >> > >> That's the funniest thing I've herad all day (it's still early though). > >> Too bad there wasn't a video camera around. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >Festival > > > > > From rcini at optonline.net Fri May 28 18:58:23 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: TI-74 manual Message-ID: <000c01c4450f$a975c470$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hi: Does anyone have a PDF copy (or an original I can scan) of the user's manual for the TI-74 BASICalc calculator? I just lost an auction on eBay for one. Please contact me off-list if anyone has one. If someone has more than just this manual, let me know, too. Maybe I can start a small TI-74 manuals archive on my Web site. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From spc at conman.org Fri May 28 18:57:56 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:56 2005 Subject: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at May 28, 2004 06:26:32 PM Message-ID: <20040528235756.1A59410B2CB7@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great R. D. Davis once stated: > > Any other words to add to the list of words to be reunited with their > rightful meanings? Cracker. Forget the script kiddies, the meaning I'm aware of is someone born, raised and lived only in the South (of the US---east of the Mississippi and below the Mason-Dixon line). Another term that pisses me off---computer. I'm sorry, but a computer is one who computes, not these new fangled machines. And what's with the abuse of "cab"? Cab ... short for cabriolet, which is a type of horse carriage. Not an ugly yellow car with black and white checkers on it. Sheesh! -spc (with all this language abuse, isn't gay at all!) From aek at spies.com Fri May 28 19:08:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: VT52s wanted Message-ID: <200405290008.i4T08bFM014254@spies.com> > isn't it on Bitsavers? I have it all scanned, i'll get it on line under dec/terminals tonight. From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 28 19:15:01 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? In-Reply-To: References: <200405280538.BAA15527@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040529001501.GJ1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Fri, May 28, 2004 at 11:20:52PM +0100: > It's not exactly complicated, the only thing you'd need would be a spec > of what the Soundblaster was expecting. Somewhere, I read that some of the newer sound cards don't match the original Soundblaster spec properly and some of the older MIDI adapter circuits won't work... a current related issue, IIRC. Can anyone comment on this? > Raid one from an old SMPSU (they're often used in the voltage regulation > feebcak circuit)? Those old PSUs are a source of many useful parts. :-) 4N35s appeared to be rather inexpensive, so I ordered ten of them and am going to have a go at building a couple of circuits around them for Mac and PC MIDI interfaces. > It may not apply here, but I've seen cheap cables and adapters that are > so poorly soldered that you have to completely rebuild them. In which > case it's probably less hassle to make it yourself in the first place. Besides, one can modify one's circuitry at a later point in time for whatever reason, more easily than hacking on one of those cables. > > Besides, by the time you add in mounting and housing, the cost for the > > homebrew has probably at least doubled, in money and time both. > > I used to estimate {Cost of main components} * 3. All Electronics sells some inexpensive cases and connectors. Mouser stocks much nicer connectors, but not perf board (darn that's become expensive!) and inexpensive cases. > Anyway, if you just want a quick-n-dirty hack why bother to house it? > Mount the board ont he DA15 plug or something. That's good for uses when cabling isn't going to get disturbed much, but in cases where it will, I'd go with a cheap project box, connectors, etc. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From melamy at earthlink.net Fri May 28 19:35:56 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Midi soundblaster direct connect? Message-ID: <280504149.63334@webbox.com> to add my comments, if you are concerned about compatibility, you are probably listening to a saleman that wants to sell you a USB to MIDI adapter. I walked into a music store a few months back and was asking about such things. The salesman proceeded to tell me that computers don't have midi interfaces anymore and that I would need to buy something from him. I have put together many systems over the years and I had yet to hear of a MPU401 problem and I had thought they had basically become standard because of the Creative Labs SoundBlaster. I have a ASUS 4C800 MB (800mhz FSB, 1.8G cpu, sound, & ethernet on board). I went home, checked the ASUS site and all I needed to get was a game port adapter for it to bring the midi out. That cost me around $12 on eBay, I installed it, pulled out my handy game port to midi cable adapter (same one you can get on eBay for around $18), connected up my Panasonic keyboard, and ran the software that I had bought called ("Instant Play Piano" at Costco. Everything worked perfectly... best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "R. D. Davis" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >Date: 5/28/04 7:15:01 PM > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Fri, May 28, 2004 at 11:20:52PM +0100: >> It's not exactly complicated, the only thing you'd need would be a spec >> of what the Soundblaster was expecting. > >Somewhere, I read that some of the newer sound cards don't match the >original Soundblaster spec properly and some of the older MIDI adapter >circuits won't work... a current related issue, IIRC. Can anyone >comment on this? > >> Raid one from an old SMPSU (they're often used in the voltage regulation >> feebcak circuit)? > >Those old PSUs are a source of many useful parts. :-) 4N35s appeared >to be rather inexpensive, so I ordered ten of them and am going to >have a go at building a couple of circuits around them for Mac and PC >MIDI interfaces. > >> It may not apply here, but I've seen cheap cables and adapters that are >> so poorly soldered that you have to completely rebuild them. In which >> case it's probably less hassle to make it yourself in the first place. > >Besides, one can modify one's circuitry at a later point in time for >whatever reason, more easily than hacking on one of those cables. > >> > Besides, by the time you add in mounting and housing, the cost for the >> > homebrew has probably at least doubled, in money and time both. >> >> I used to estimate {Cost of main components} * 3. > >All Electronics sells some inexpensive cases and connectors. Mouser >stocks much nicer connectors, but not perf board (darn that's become >expensive!) and inexpensive cases. > >> Anyway, if you just want a quick-n-dirty hack why bother to house it? >> Mount the board ont he DA15 plug or something. > >That's good for uses when cabling isn't going to get disturbed much, >but in cases where it will, I'd go with a cheap project box, >connectors, etc. > >-- >Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such >410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 28 20:38:46 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Classic Elecoms Anyone? (was: List of Words...) In-Reply-To: <20040528235756.1A59410B2CB7@swift.conman.org> References: <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040528235756.1A59410B2CB7@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <20040529013846.GK1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner, from writings of Fri, May 28, 2004 at 07:57:56PM -0400: > It was thus said that the Great R. D. Davis once stated: > > > > Any other words to add to the list of words to be reunited with their > > rightful meanings? > > Cracker. Forget the script kiddies, the meaning I'm aware of is someone > born, raised and lived only in the South (of the US---east of the > Mississippi and below the Mason-Dixon line). Another term that pisses me Just try explaining that to some of the strange Washington DC area folks (a former cow-orker comes to mind) who are "embarassed" to say that they live in the South, so they claim that the South begins somewhere well below the Capitol Beltway where they live and ignore the Mason-Dixon line... of course, I guess that it's only natural for many of those folks in Washington DC to ignore reality, for doing so seems to come naturally to many humans in that area. As to "cracker", surely no appropriate substitution is needed; the only necessary definition of that word needs to be one associated with food, or perhaps someone who cracks things open (e.g. when one prepares scrambled eggs, one is acting as a temporary egg cracker). > off---computer. I'm sorry, but a computer is one who computes, not these > new fangled machines. Electronic computing machine, ECM or elecom. > And what's with the abuse of "cab"? Cab ... short for cabriolet, which is > a type of horse carriage. Not an ugly yellow car with black and white > checkers on it. Sheesh! Right... makes sense. Let's call them rentable chauffer driven automobiles, RCDAs, or recdas. As to "cab" as in short for cabin, just call them vehicular cabins, airplane cabins, etc. Getting back to "hacker"... I'm somewhat surprised that this word came into being in connection with computers, electronics, etc., given it's already bloated list of definitions: hacking at something with an axe, hacking as in hack horse and hack riding ("hacking about"), what an RCDA or recda driver does, etc. Perhaps another term would have been better unless someone can clarify how hacker came into being as we know it to be used. Anyone care to offer a good explantion as to why we should continue to call hacking "hacking"? Surely there must exist a good reason. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 28 20:45:28 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: <20040528235756.1A59410B2CB7@swift.conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at May 28, 2004 07:57:56 PM Message-ID: <200405290145.i4T1jSjp013503@onyx.spiritone.com> > It was thus said that the Great R. D. Davis once stated: > > > > Any other words to add to the list of words to be reunited with their > > rightful meanings? > > Cracker. Forget the script kiddies, the meaning I'm aware of is someone > born, raised and lived only in the South (of the US---east of the > Mississippi and below the Mason-Dixon line). Another term that pisses me Um... Based on my experiences in the South, "Cracker" is a racist term. At least it is in South Carolina. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 20:48:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2004, Witchy wrote: > Anyone come across a beige TI99/4A before? I'd previously thought all beige > machines were early TI99/4s but last week I was sent a boxed 'Texas > Instruments 99/4A' that's very beige and hopefully very working....not had a > chance to test it yet. The beige models were a later revision of the 99/4a. Pretty common here in the States. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Fri May 28 20:54:28 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 References: Message-ID: <001c01c4451f$e0756830$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> got a monkey wards catalog the other day someone brought by from the 80's there are some nice catalog pages in there for TI stuff.... time permitting may scan them! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: Beige TI99 > Hi folks, > > Anyone come across a beige TI99/4A before? I'd previously thought all beige > machines were early TI99/4s but last week I was sent a boxed 'Texas > Instruments 99/4A' that's very beige and hopefully very working....not had a > chance to test it yet. > > In other news I'm celebrating one month at my new job; it's great to be back > in a fully equipped workshop with 'scope access and loads of DEC stuff > amongst other things, so once I'm settled in my new weekday flat (I come > home at weekends, a nice 500 mile round trip) I'll be able to take dead > machines down for repair...... > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 20:56:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: OT -> Stupid nerds pontificating about social issues that they shouldn't (was Re: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 28 May 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > I vote that we take that word back. No offense to homosexuals, but > someone needs to clue them into the fact that they've been using the > word 'gay' incorrectly for far too long; they're not the only ones > with the right to be called happy people. How that started, I don't My gawd this is ridiculous. Can't they have just ONE word out of the entire English language to themselves? Ok, there's also "queer" and "faggot" but those are all names GIVEN to them that they then co-opted to take away from the bigots. Aside from the fact that describing yourself in a happy way as "gay" is so quaint and Victorian anyway. I certainly wouldn't go around expressing myself like "I'm very gay because I got a raise at work. Yippee!" I'd rather be like, "Fuck yeah! More money to blow on shit!" Come on. EVOLVE! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri May 28 21:04:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: TI-74 manual In-Reply-To: <000c01c4450f$a975c470$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040528220434.00900870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Rich, If you find a PDF copy I'd like to get a copy too. I have 74 that's been laying around unused for too long. Joe At 07:58 PM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote: >Hi: > > Does anyone have a PDF copy (or an original I can scan) of the user's >manual for the TI-74 BASICalc calculator? I just lost an auction on eBay for >one. > > Please contact me off-list if anyone has one. If someone has more than just >this manual, let me know, too. Maybe I can start a small TI-74 manuals >archive on my Web site. > > Thanks. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 21:02:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: More OT stupidity (was Re: Classic Elecoms Anyone? (was: List of )Words...) In-Reply-To: <20040529013846.GK1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 28 May 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > As to "cracker", surely no appropriate substitution is needed; the only > necessary definition of that word needs to be one associated with > food, or perhaps someone who cracks things open (e.g. when one > prepares scrambled eggs, one is acting as a temporary egg cracker). What about "white trash"? What the hell am I supposed to call my uncolored garbage? > RCDA or recda driver does, etc. Perhaps another term would have been > better unless someone can clarify how hacker came into being as we > know it to be used. Anyone care to offer a good explantion as to why > we should continue to call hacking "hacking"? Surely there must exist > a good reason. Read "Hackers" by Steven Levy (required reading for this list!) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jdaviscctalk at soupwizard.com Fri May 28 21:05:55 2004 From: jdaviscctalk at soupwizard.com (Jeff Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Free: Bunch of Atari 800 stuff, Washington DC area pickup Message-ID: <40B7F003.9070009@soupwizard.com> Hi all: I'm clearing out my storage unit and have finally gotten tired of dragging around my Atari 800 stuff. Here's what's available free (as a lot - take it all!) in the Washington DC area (Vienna, VA specifically): 3 - Atari 800 consoles, at least 2 work 1 - Atari 810 floppy drive, works iirc 2 - Atari 1050 floppy drives, work iirc 2 - Atari 850 interfaces 1 - 3rd party modem that doesn't need an 850 1 - Atari 410 data cassette recorder in box Plus cables and power supplies for all the above, and some disks and a couple of "how to use atari dos" type books. a couple of joysticks too. Email me if you'd like to drop by and pick up this collection. I'm in Vienna, Virginia. Anytime this weekend (including Monday) would be great. Thanks, Jeff Davis From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 21:06:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Austrailian Computer Museum call for help Message-ID: Just got this: 1. Expressions Of Interest =+= DISPERSAL of Computer Museum Collection. ========================================================================= The Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc has been actively collecting local artefacts for the past ten years. It now has amassed a collection that has been estimated at nearly 50,000 individual items. The ACMS has recently had to relocate from its sponsored stored space at Kennards at Homebush and cannot afford to pay the commercial rents required for the 1,000 square metres that the artefacts occupy. The ACMS collection consists mainly of electronic computing items with associated media, software and documentation, plus a lot of ancillary equipment related to office automation and communications. Expressions of interest are being sought from any Regional Museum or similar organisation who could store and/or display any of our duplicated items. Most of these would be from the 1970s and 1980s and are all systems that were in use in Australia. A typical set up would be a mainframe or mini-computer style system (with flashing lights on the front), storage devices (such as disk and/or tape drives), printers and visual display units; as would have been used for corporate record keeping and business management. Smaller systems that might have been used for word-processing in a small professional office are also available. Some specialised scientific, engineering and medical application systems are also available. The ACMS is not in a position to pay for freight to distant locations (but other grants may be available for such purposes); however we may be able to assist with historical notes and possible contacts with users. Any assistance with sourcing space for our repository would also be highly appreciated. Enquiries to: John GEREMIN, Collections Officer, ACMS Inc, geremin @ iprimus . com . au Initial Responses to: John GEREMIN, Treasurer, ACMS Inc, p. o. box s - 5, HOMEBUSH SOUTH, nsw, 2140. ================================== 2. Appeal for HELP =+=+= Computer Museum REPOSITORY space needed. =================================================================== The Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc has been actively collecting local artefacts for the past ten years. It now has amassed a collection that has been estimated at nearly 50,000 individual items, in line with its objectives of being the primary source of materials re the impacts of the computer industry for future historians and sociologists. The ACMS has recently had to relocate from its sponsored space at Kennards at Homebush and cannot afford to pay the commercial rents required for the 1,000+ square metres that the artefacts now occupy. The ACMS collection consists mainly of electronic computing items with associated media, software and documentation, plus a lot of ancillary equipment related to office automation and communications. We are looking to share storage space with other organisations - any size will be considered - from 50 square metres upwards. Main requirements are that it is relatively clean and dry (we have lived with broken windows and a leaking roof in the past). Any assistance with sourcing possible display spaces for our ever-growing collection would also be highly appreciated. Enquiries to: John GEREMIN, Collections Officer, ACMS Inc, geremin @ iprimus . com . au Initial Responses to: John GEREMIN, Treasurer, ACMS Inc, p. o. box s - 5, HOMEBUSH SOUTH, nsw, 2140. ================================== From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri May 28 21:15:52 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: More OT stupidity (was Re: Classic Elecoms Anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B7F258.8040904@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 28 May 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > > >>As to "cracker", surely no appropriate substitution is needed; the only >>necessary definition of that word needs to be one associated with >>food, or perhaps someone who cracks things open (e.g. when one >>prepares scrambled eggs, one is acting as a temporary egg cracker). > > > What about "white trash"? What the hell am I supposed to call my > uncolored garbage? Pigmentally challenged under-exploited resources? Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 28 21:28:05 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: OT -> Stupid nerds pontificating about social issues that they shouldn't (was Re: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: References: <20040528222632.GI1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040529022804.GL1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Fri, May 28, 2004 at 06:56:42PM -0700: > Come on. > > EVOLVE! Hey Sellam, it looks like your keyboard needs a repair pertaining to the 'D' key; didn't you mean to type "DEVOLVE!"? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jdaviscctalk at soupwizard.com Fri May 28 21:38:22 2004 From: jdaviscctalk at soupwizard.com (Jeff Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: (Taken) Re: Free: Bunch of Atari 800 stuff, Washington DC area pickup In-Reply-To: <40B7F003.9070009@soupwizard.com> References: <40B7F003.9070009@soupwizard.com> Message-ID: <40B7F79E.2090106@soupwizard.com> Wow, that was fast. A couple of people have emailed with offers to give the Atari stuff a good home. I'm glad, I didn't want it to sit forlorn at Goodwill for kids who only know Win98 to paw over. Thanks, Jeff Jeff Davis wrote: > Hi all: > > I'm clearing out my storage unit and have finally gotten tired of > dragging around my Atari 800 stuff. Here's what's available free (as a > lot - take it all!) in the Washington DC area (Vienna, VA specifically): > > 3 - Atari 800 consoles, at least 2 work > 1 - Atari 810 floppy drive, works iirc > 2 - Atari 1050 floppy drives, work iirc > 2 - Atari 850 interfaces > 1 - 3rd party modem that doesn't need an 850 > 1 - Atari 410 data cassette recorder in box > > Plus cables and power supplies for all the above, and some disks and a > couple of "how to use atari dos" type books. a couple of joysticks too. > > Email me if you'd like to drop by and pick up this collection. I'm in > Vienna, Virginia. Anytime this weekend (including Monday) would be great. > > Thanks, > Jeff Davis > > From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Fri May 28 21:48:27 2004 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Classic Elecoms Anyone? (was: List of Words...) In-Reply-To: <20040529013846.GK1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 28 May 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Getting back to "hacker"... I'm somewhat surprised that this word came > into being in connection with computers, electronics, etc., given it's > already bloated list of definitions: hacking at something with an axe, > hacking as in hack horse and hack riding ("hacking about"), what an > RCDA or recda driver does, etc. Perhaps another term would have been > better unless someone can clarify how hacker came into being as we > know it to be used. Anyone care to offer a good explantion as to why > we should continue to call hacking "hacking"? Surely there must exist > a good reason. Idunno. When my old man called me a "hacker", and what I was working on "hackwork", it was certainly not complementary, and had nothing to do with my (to date) unexpressed (complete lack of) skill with computers. Circa 1950s. Bill From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Fri May 28 21:51:22 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: OT -> Stupid nerds pontificating about social issues that they shouldn't (was Re: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1geihct.1i9drsjdil0wmM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Aside from the fact that describing yourself in a happy way as "gay" is so > quaint and Victorian anyway. http://thelabelman.com/labels/lugs/Lgaycock.jpg -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri May 28 22:11:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: OT -> Stupid nerds pontificating about social issues that they shouldn't (was Re: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: <1geihct.1i9drsjdil0wmM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2004, tim lindner wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Aside from the fact that describing yourself in a happy way as "gay" is so > > quaint and Victorian anyway. > > http://thelabelman.com/labels/lugs/Lgaycock.jpg Yeah baby! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From zmerch at 30below.com Fri May 28 22:21:46 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: OT -> Stupid nerds pontificating about social issues that they shouldn't (was Re: List of Words and Meanings Reunited (was: for sale etiquette?) In-Reply-To: <1geihct.1i9drsjdil0wmM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040528232033.00adf210@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that tim lindner may have mentioned these words: >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Aside from the fact that describing yourself in a happy way as "gay" is so > > quaint and Victorian anyway. > >http://thelabelman.com/labels/lugs/Lgaycock.jpg And another, from the same site: http://thelabelman.com/labels/lugs/lbuxom.jpg Maybe this was the beginning of a particular use of these references? ;^> Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat May 29 03:06:43 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 May 2004 23:26:44 BST." Message-ID: <200405290806.JAA13935@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said; > I do have a digital camera, and it's on-topic (as it's well over 10 years > old). It's a Datacopy 300, which uses a linear (1 - dimensional) CCD > tracked across the image plane with a leadscrew. I also have the > interface card for it, for the PERQ of course. One day I must have a go > at getting it all working... I remember reading about those, or one like it, at the time. The Apple Quicktake 100 is 10 years old now, and mine still works fine. I wonder, what was the first digital camera on sale to the general public - as opposed to being aimed at a commercial market? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 29 03:26:28 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms In-Reply-To: "McFadden, Mike" "Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms" (May 28, 12:57) References: Message-ID: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 28, 12:57, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Flooded computer room We had a similar problem, thanks to our aircon, a year or so ago. Our big aircon is one that has dehumidifies the air, then cools it, and finally rehumidifies it if necessary so it's not too dry (which encourages static buildup). Well, a valve jammed, and the rehumidifier section filled up with water and overflowed. We ended up with an inch-deep pool of water over about half the floor -- not as serious as Mike's incident, but still a bit messy. And dirty. What alerted us to it initially was the smell of dampness :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 29 03:36:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment" (May 28, 15:11) References: <200405282211.i4SMBheP008198@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <10405290936.ZM28164@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 28, 15:11, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > At 5:37 PM -0400 5/28/04, Ed Kelleher wrote: > > >a guy who as a public service has posted old manuals on his site. > > > > > >http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/ > Again, nothing against Ed, but... > > The owner of that website is also a total A** **** about people linking to > his site. Link to his site and you'll probably find that any traffic > following that link gets redirected to an obscene website. Several people > have had *very* unpleasent dealings with him. So have I. And posting manuals in Word format? Come on! > I'd personally recommend sending any scans to Al for bitsavers.org. Hear, hear. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat May 29 05:18:03 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: <200405290806.JAA13935@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200405290806.JAA13935@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <1085825883.23435.197399701@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hmmm...if I had to guess, I would say the first digital cameraever sold was the *original* Sony Mavica (circa mid 1980's). I remember reading something about it in an old "Compute!" magazine that I have back home. If I remember correctly, it used a 2.5" (or similar) floppy disk. Your guess is as good as mine as to how you imported images from the camera to a computer (2.5" floppy drive perhaps?). I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it was not color, though. > > I do have a digital camera, and it's on-topic (as it's well over 10 years > > old). It's a Datacopy 300, which uses a linear (1 - dimensional) CCD > > tracked across the image plane with a leadscrew. I also have the > > interface card for it, for the PERQ of course. One day I must have a go > > at getting it all working... > > I remember reading about those, or one like it, at the time. > > The Apple Quicktake 100 is 10 years old now, and mine still works fine. > I wonder, what was the first digital camera on sale to the general > public - as opposed to being aimed at a commercial market? > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat May 29 05:55:50 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 29 May 2004 02:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Beige TI99 > > The beige models were a later revision of the 99/4a. Pretty > common here in the States. Oh, good job it was cheap then :) Cheers w From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat May 29 06:45:08 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci In-Reply-To: <200405281439640.SM03584@bobdev> References: <20040528183636.B6ED010B2CB7@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040529124130.0578bea8@pop.freeserve.net> At 14:44 28/05/2004 -0400, Bob Lafleur wrote: >Some of you may remember me asking a few months ago about a dead Iici - >wouldn't power up, and I swapped power supplies. A few people suggested that >a cap on the main board might have blown, which jogged my memory to a few >nights before when I thought I had heard a pop come from the room where the >Iici was plugged in. > >On my list of things to do is to move the hard drive and RAM from the "dead" >Iici to another system. But in the meantime, I had left the Iici plugged in. > >Today (about 2 to 3 months later) I walked by, and noticed the fan is >running on it. I haven't hooked up a monitor to it to see if it is indeed >booted, but I will later. I'm afraid to turn it off again for fear that it >won't boot. > >Has anyone ever heard of a popped cap coming back to life? Maybe the problem >was something else? This used to be a problem with the old BBC Micros I used to use - if left powered up for months (like when I was running a multi-user BBS) some cap in the PSU would burn out in some manner, although the machine carried on working. The next time you did happen to switch it off then on, it would take varying amounts of time to actually fire up - from several seconds to over 24 hours in one case. From Pres at macro-inc.com Sat May 29 07:11:00 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <20040528224946.GA17193@bos7.spole.gov> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040528183612.02c5b798@192.168.0.1> <5.2.0.9.2.20040528183612.02c5b798@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040529081051.02469020@192.168.0.1> At 06:49 PM 5/28/2004, you wrote: >Might you have a CS-21 manual? Sorry, no joy. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 29 08:10:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: "Revived" IIci In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040529124130.0578bea8@pop.freeserve.net> References: <200405281439640.SM03584@bobdev> <20040528183636.B6ED010B2CB7@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040529091009.008fa8d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 14:44 28/05/2004 -0400, Bob Lafleur wrote: >Some of you may remember me asking a few months ago about a dead Iici - >wouldn't power up, and I swapped power supplies. A few people suggested that >a cap on the main board might have blown, which jogged my memory to a few >nights before when I thought I had heard a pop come from the room where the >Iici was plugged in. > >On my list of things to do is to move the hard drive and RAM from the "dead" >Iici to another system. But in the meantime, I had left the Iici plugged in. > >Today (about 2 to 3 months later) I walked by, and noticed the fan is >running on it. I haven't hooked up a monitor to it to see if it is indeed >booted, but I will later. I'm afraid to turn it off again for fear that it >won't boot. > >Has anyone ever heard of a popped cap coming back to life? Maybe the problem >was something else? I've had small caps blow in both a Kaypro and a BBC Acorn in the last couple of months. In both cases, the machines kept right on working. OTOH I've had large PSU caps short (not blow) in machines including an IBM 5100 and they shorted out the PSU so that nothing happened when you turned them on. If I get a "dead" machine, the first hing I check is the fuse and the second thing I check is the large filter caps. Joe From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat May 29 09:28:41 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0HYH00G3AC7RQV@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> The beige TI99/4A are the more recent ones. Designed to reduce cost IIRC.... Ram PS: Good luck in your new job.... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Witchy Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:17 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Beige TI99 Hi folks, Anyone come across a beige TI99/4A before? I'd previously thought all beige machines were early TI99/4s but last week I was sent a boxed 'Texas Instruments 99/4A' that's very beige and hopefully very working....not had a chance to test it yet. In other news I'm celebrating one month at my new job; it's great to be back in a fully equipped workshop with 'scope access and loads of DEC stuff amongst other things, so once I'm settled in my new weekday flat (I come home at weekends, a nice 500 mile round trip) I'll be able to take dead machines down for repair...... -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat May 29 09:41:22 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 In-Reply-To: <0HYH00G3AC7RQV@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ram > Meenakshisundaram > Sent: 29 May 2004 15:29 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Beige TI99 > > The beige TI99/4A are the more recent ones. Designed to > reduce cost IIRC.... Well, they certainly look like they do that - plastic case etc....ick :) > Ram > > PS: Good luck in your new job.... Thanks Ram! There's a lot of old DEC stuff in storage mainly used for spares, but if there's going to be a chucking session I'll be straight on this list before I let 'em throw anything out :) Cheers w From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 29 10:10:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera( was Re: OT: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside) In-Reply-To: <200405290806.JAA13935@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > > I do have a digital camera, and it's on-topic (as it's well over 10 years > > old). It's a Datacopy 300, which uses a linear (1 - dimensional) CCD > > tracked across the image plane with a leadscrew. I also have the > > interface card for it, for the PERQ of course. One day I must have a go > > at getting it all working... > > I remember reading about those, or one like it, at the time. > > The Apple Quicktake 100 is 10 years old now, and mine still works fine. > I wonder, what was the first digital camera on sale to the general > public - as opposed to being aimed at a commercial market? That would be the Dycam Model 1 I believe. It was apparently the firsy to include the digitizer in the camera itself (as opposed to a host PC doing the digitizing). http://www.digicamhistory.com/1990.html Here's a terrific site on digital camera history. Spend a good many minutes reading through this because you'll learn a lot about digital photography (prepare to be surprised). http://www.digicamhistory.com/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat May 29 10:14:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside In-Reply-To: <1085825883.23435.197399701@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 2004, David Vohs wrote: > Hmmm...if I had to guess, I would say the first digital cameraever sold > was the *original* Sony Mavica (circa mid 1980's). I remember reading > something about it in an old "Compute!" magazine that I have back home. > If I remember correctly, it used a 2.5" (or similar) floppy disk. Your > guess is as good as mine as to how you imported images from the camera to > a computer (2.5" floppy drive perhaps?). I wouldn't be surprised to find > out that it was not color, though. Actually, it used 2" disks (and the much later Zenith SuperSport has a 2" drive built-in, though I doubt there is any compatibility). http://www.digicamhistory.com/1980_1983.html It was not really a digital camera in the sense we know today, but more of a still-image video camera. Images were stored on the disks and you could view them on your TV using a playback unit. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Sat May 29 10:47:30 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A little OT but certainly related: I had a 'camera' made by MicroMint (Steve Ciarcia) made to work with an Apple ][. It was basically a photo-eraseable EPROM and an adapter card for the Apple. The EEPROM was mounted in the back of a closed aluminum tube with a lens threaded into the front, with one of those cheap table-top tripods. The software wrote all 1s to the EPROM and then the light from the object being photgraphed erased whatever bitcells it impinged on. The software on the Apple then collected these bits, dithered them, and presented them as pixels on the display. At that point you could also print the image on a dot-matrix printer. Hand Franke has it now - I still have a couple of JPEGs I took of it if anyone's interested. It was from '78 or thereabouts. Cheers John From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat May 29 11:09:41 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms In-Reply-To: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200405291109.41608.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 29 May 2004 03:26, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 28, 12:57, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > Flooded computer room > > We had a similar problem, thanks to our aircon, a year or so ago. > Our big aircon is one that has dehumidifies the air, then cools it, Hmm, this is turning into "who's computer room hasn't flooded?" Anyhow, we've had similar problems with the drains from our Leibert A/C units getting clogged and overflowing, so we now have some water sensors and an autodialer connected up to send out an alert if there's any water buildup starting. It's always good to find out about that before things get too serious. Fortunately, I haven't seen anything start flooding since I started working at Purdue's machine room a couple of years ago. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat May 29 11:25:59 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 ROMs Message-ID: > I don't know what spped the M9312 PROMs are rated at but I was just > looking at my notes about the Bipolar PROMs used in the HP 1000. > They're rated at 60nS. Can you get EPROMs that are that fast? No and yes. Worst case timing for a typical 256kbit EPROM is 150ns but if you know the address will be stable at least 150ns before the data is required then the delay from /OE to valid data can be as little as 40ns. Also if you know which address lines cause the greatest delay then you can avoid switching them and operate the with a worst case delay of about 75ns. I would guess that, with care, 120ns parts could work and that 90ns parts would work in place of 60ns bipolar PROMs. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Sat May 29 11:36:27 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Beige TI99 In-Reply-To: <0HYH00G3AC7RQV@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0HYH00G3AC7RQV@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <40B8BC0B.9040803@vzavenue.net> Not only was it a reduced cost model, but the GROM chip was revised to lock out third party cartridges. It was also revised to match the CC40 line of peripherials like the wafer tape drive and all of the stackable modules that didn't use the PEB. Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: >The beige TI99/4A are the more recent ones. Designed to reduce cost >IIRC.... > > >Ram > >PS: Good luck in your new job.... > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Witchy >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:17 PM >To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' >Subject: Beige TI99 > >Hi folks, > >Anyone come across a beige TI99/4A before? I'd previously thought all beige >machines were early TI99/4s but last week I was sent a boxed 'Texas >Instruments 99/4A' that's very beige and hopefully very working....not had a >chance to test it yet. > >In other news I'm celebrating one month at my new job; it's great to be back >in a fully equipped workshop with 'scope access and loads of DEC stuff >amongst other things, so once I'm settled in my new weekday flat (I come >home at weekends, a nice 500 mile round trip) I'll be able to take dead >machines down for repair...... > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > > From wacarder at usit.net Sat May 29 11:49:02 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 Message-ID: Look what somebody got for $50 on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=4134523032& rd=1 - Ashley From allain at panix.com Sat May 29 12:09:36 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526161033.03482a40@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <004e01c4459f$b9182360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> From: Tom Uban, Wednesday > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1105S_Schem.pdf Just got a chance to download and begin looking. Pages 169,170 show the three pin power on actuator that I'm looking at. In other places is the flipswitch circuit breaker that Tony describes and I don't have. Haven't found any thermal shut-off but I'm just starting. Thanks. John A. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat May 29 13:20:17 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera References: Message-ID: <40B8D461.9060100@jetnet.ab.ca> John Lawson wrote: > > A little OT but certainly related: I had a 'camera' made by MicroMint > (Steve Ciarcia) made to work with an Apple ][. It was basically a > photo-eraseable EPROM and an adapter card for the Apple. > > The EEPROM was mounted in the back of a closed aluminum tube with a lens > threaded into the front, with one of those cheap table-top tripods. The > software wrote all 1s to the EPROM and then the light from the object > being photgraphed erased whatever bitcells it impinged on. > > The software on the Apple then collected these bits, dithered them, and > presented them as pixels on the display. At that point you could also > print the image on a dot-matrix printer. > > Hand Franke has it now - I still have a couple of JPEGs I took of it if > anyone's interested. It was from '78 or thereabouts. > > > Cheers > > John I thought was a 1/2 of 16k dynamic ram with Ciarcia's camera, that I read about in BYTE. I thought he had good projects until he came out with his own PC clone, then he went down hill. From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat May 29 14:19:33 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: H750 (PDP-11) power on? In-Reply-To: <004e01c4459f$b9182360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200405261732.NAA15807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040526182359.GA1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200405261831.OAA16395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526161033.03482a40@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040529141834.06393960@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 01:09 PM 5/29/2004 -0400, you wrote: >From: Tom Uban, Wednesday > > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1105S_Schem.pdf > >Just got a chance to download and begin looking. >Pages 169,170 show the three pin power on actuator >that I'm looking at. In other places is the flipswitch circuit >breaker that Tony describes and I don't have. Haven't found >any thermal shut-off but I'm just starting. Thanks. The thermal switch is mounted on the heat sink of the actual power supply. It looks like a small can with two wires coming out of it. --tom From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat May 29 14:20:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: mostly Qbus stuff - equipment In-Reply-To: <10405290936.ZM28164@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 28, 15:11, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > At 5:37 PM -0400 5/28/04, Ed Kelleher wrote: > > > >a guy who as a public service has posted old manuals on his site. > > > > > > > >http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/ > > > Again, nothing against Ed, but... > > > > The owner of that website is also a total A** **** about people > linking to > > his site. Link to his site and you'll probably find that any traffic > > following that link gets redirected to an obscene website. Several > people > > have had *very* unpleasent dealings with him. Hrrm. Must depend on the person, then. > So have I. And posting manuals in Word format? Come on! Yeah, I still have an original and signed diskette copy of his RSX book :) --fred From technobug at comcast.net Sat May 29 15:18:54 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms In-Reply-To: <200405291700.i4TH03hd038337@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405291700.i4TH03hd038337@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <684BFD90-B1AD-11D8-864C-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Back when I was running a ground station using a Modcomp, the Modcomp tech came by for scheduled service and told me about a service that he had just performed at an aluminum smelter. Seems they used the beasties for controlling the anodic smelting process and placed the computer right next to the smelter. Inorder to protect it from the heat they put the crates in a large NEMA box and piped cooling water to a radiator in the box. When he arrived he sucessfully ran the system checks from the console and then opened the box to find the entire thing was full of water. Seems they were very concientious about using deionized water in their cooling systems and no harm was done. Other than having to dry everything out, he had to replace forty-some fans in the unit, reseat all the chips (hundreds - everything was socketed) and of course repair the cooling radiator. CRC From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 29 16:13:11 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040529211311.GD28748@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 12:49:02PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Look what somebody got for $50 on eBay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=4134523032& > rd=1 $50 BIN?!? Geez! That is a steal. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-May-2004 21:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -79.5 F (-62.0 C) Windchill -128.6 F (-89.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 19.5 kts Grid 001 Barometer 665.7 mb (11172. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 29 16:03:38 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom><16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL><10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> We have them too where I work there is a space of about 18" below them where we run all the cables . They're not too tight -fitting but you need a double suction cup device to lift them. Some of the tiles - in the posher areas- are top-lined with carpet instead of lineoleum. Metal edges and supported on all four corners by metal pillars. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning > On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 08:40, der Mouse wrote: > > I suppose the ones I am familiar with from the one job I've worked at > > that used them are atypical, then. They were supported by a network of > > metal (steel, presumably) braces which in turn were supported by small > > pillars to the floor where the braces met (which was under the corners > > of the tiles). > > I've worked in an office which had those too, so you're not alone. They > were very tight fitting too, and needed a couple of big suction-cups to > lift them up. They could take one hell of a weight though. > > In my case the building probably dated from around 1980. > > cheers > > Jules > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 29 16:19:57 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <51a62fb64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <01e701c445c5$b6ca4680$bb72fea9@geoff> Definitely do for pine - it's relatively cheap, matures well to a nice golden colour and is very strong. Where I sit I'm gazing at my magazine collection housed in an 8' x 4' bookshelf. Well not quite 8' high. - 9" x 3/4" pine shelves mounted on a 1/2" plywood "backplane" , sat on the floor and screwed to the wall at the corners through 4 metal triangular plates. ( Nothing like brick shithouse engineering ! ) It currently holds my entire collection of Wireless World - most copies from 1976 - and a good few going back to 1967 - every tv mag going back to 1974 lots of other electronics mags etc. Not to bore you with details but it hasn't sagged yet - hang on I forgot the ETI mags from issue 1 . I have to build another one to partner it as it's full and my dragon mags are in boxes on the landing. If it falls down I'll let you know - if I'm not under it. It didn't cost that much - and there is nothing on the market to compare with it at the price. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:48 PM Subject: RE: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning > In message <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> > Paul Koning wrote: > > > I have had a particle board bookshelf come apart. The blame was in > > part on incompetent design ("scandinavian design" pretty looking > > stuff) -- the shelf was "supported" on a groove milled in the edge. > > That means the load was carried on less than half the thickness of the > > shelf. > > > > Even so, a better material would not have failed. > I've got a home-made pine computer desk (built into the wall), a pine > bookcase and a pair of three-quarter-inch pine shelves. They've been up since > early 1998 and are still in good condition. Well, aside from the missing > sections of varnish on the computer desk - exploding components and falling > tools tend to cause that sort of damage, though :-/ > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... Hi! I'm a tagline virus! Steal me & join in the fun! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat May 29 15:49:23 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:57 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL><10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <01e501c445c5$b4fbef20$bb72fea9@geoff> Not much use for flooring in an upstairs bathroom - if you have a water leak ! Over here in Wales we do have what is called "flooring grade chipboard " - usually T&G - but it is definitely not strong when wet. Neverthe less , it gets used a hell of a lot. Geoff. >From an engineering perspective, I'd say that particleboard is fine for carrying loads in the right circumstances, but it is incumbent upon the designer to know what those circumstances are and design accordingly. Building codes (which were cited in support of the notion) tend to be conservative, and (especially given the likely blind substitution of particleboard for plywood) I'm not surprised they take the tack described. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From torquil at chemist.com Sat May 29 16:55:56 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 References: <20040529211311.GD28748@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <036401c445c7$ba5be6d0$0500a8c0@floyd> > $50 BIN?!? Geez! That is a steal. Understatement of the year. :) I almost feel bad for the guy who sold it, you can see on his About Me page that he is a retired grandfather who likes antiques, but I guess if you don't research an item before you sell it, that is the price you pay.... -- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat May 29 17:03:06 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 References: <20040529211311.GD28748@bos7.spole.gov> <036401c445c7$ba5be6d0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <00f701c445c8$b92c4b00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 > > $50 BIN?!? Geez! That is a steal. > > Understatement of the year. :) > > I almost feel bad for the guy who sold it, you can see on his About Me page > that he is a retired grandfather who likes antiques, but I guess if you > don't research an item before you sell it, that is the price you pay.... > > > -- > Thanks, > Torquil MacCorkle, III > Lexington, Virginia > > Ok, I am curious. What is this thing worth? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 29 17:27:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at May 29, 4 11:47:30 am Message-ID: > A little OT but certainly related: I had a 'camera' made by MicroMint > (Steve Ciarcia) made to work with an Apple ][. It was basically a > photo-eraseable EPROM and an adapter card for the Apple. I thought it was actually a DRAM chip with a transparent top (the number 'IS32 Optic RAM' is sort-of in my mind, but I can't be sure). Light falling on the storage capacitors causes them to discharge faster. You fill the RAM with 1s, wait a little bit, and read it out. The cells that read as 0s have had a lot of light falling on them. Then fill the RAM with 1s again, wait a bit longer. The extra cells that read out as 0s have had some, but less, light falling on them. Repeat for 8 or so times (to get 3 bits/pixel). A real CCD is a lot better ;-) > Hand Franke has it now - I still have a couple of JPEGs I took of it if > anyone's interested. It was from '78 or thereabouts. I would haev put it about 5 years later than that. Or maybe that was a later version. -tony From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat May 29 17:41:50 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom><16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL><10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> Message-ID: <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 29, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > in the posher areas- are top-lined with > carpet instead of lineoleum. Metal edges and supported on all four > corners > by metal pillars. > ' How do you lift the carpet covered ones? Hook velcro on handles? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 29 17:54:53 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040529225453.GC843@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 11:27:00PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > A little OT but certainly related: I had a 'camera' made by MicroMint > > (Steve Ciarcia) made to work with an Apple ][. It was basically a > > photo-eraseable EPROM and an adapter card for the Apple. > > I thought it was actually a DRAM chip with a transparent top (the number > 'IS32 Optic RAM' is sort-of in my mind, but I can't be sure). Light > falling on the storage capacitors causes them to discharge faster. You > fill the RAM with 1s, wait a little bit, and read it out. The cells that > read as 0s have had a lot of light falling on them. Then fill the RAM > with 1s again, wait a bit longer. The extra cells that read out as 0s > have had some, but less, light falling on them. Repeat for 8 or so times > (to get 3 bits/pixel). I remember the article... I don't know if Steve Ciarcia used a commercially prepared chip or not, but I still have a ceramic/gold-lid 4116 that I peeled the lid off myself and replaced with a slide-cover. I never built mine into a camera body, but I did do a few experiments where I had an Apple II with the cover off and changed how much light fell on the DRAM. I saw that the effect basically worked, but never wrote any software to do image collection/processing. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-May-2004 22:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -79.8 F (-62.1 C) Windchill -128 F (-88.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.7 kts Grid 003 Barometer 665.5 mb (11176. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat May 29 13:59:06 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <01e701c445c5$b6ca4680$bb72fea9@geoff> Message-ID: <20040529225921.ZCYP24047.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Snip, Geoff wrote: > hang on I > forgot the ETI mags from issue 1 . I have to build another one to partner it > as it's full and my dragon mags are in boxes on the landing. If it falls > down I'll let you know - if I'm not under it. > It didn't cost that much - and there is nothing on the market to compare > with it at the price. Hey, ETI! We used to have that at one local electronic store and did few ETI kits years ago early 1980's). That said store long since gone. :-( Cheers, Wizard From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 29 17:58:47 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20040529225847.GD843@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 03:41:50PM -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: > How do you lift the carpet covered ones? Hook velcro on handles? I've seen a tool that resembles the suction-cup lifter, but instead of rubber cups, there are square plates with tiny metal hooks, rather like velcro. You place the tool on the carpet and slide it in one direction to snag the carpet, and slide it in the other direction to release it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-May-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -128.1 F (-88.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.8 kts Grid 003 Barometer 665.3 mb (11184. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat May 29 18:00:18 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <20040529225847.GD843@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40B91602.10809@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I've seen a tool that resembles the suction-cup lifter, but instead of > rubber cups, there are square plates with tiny metal hooks, rather like > velcro. You place the tool on the carpet and slide it in one direction > to snag the carpet, and slide it in the other direction to release it. > > -ethan > So what do they use for flooring in Antartica? Ben. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 29 18:30:44 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: <40B91602.10809@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <20040529225847.GD843@bos7.spole.gov> <40B91602.10809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040529233044.GB29918@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 05:00:18PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > So what do they use for flooring in Antartica? We don't have an ounce of raised flooring in the old station, and I'm not sure there is any in the new station - we tend to go with overhead cable trays. There are three seperate runs in the room I'm in now, and it's office-ish space, not even machine room. There might be some metal-tile raised flooring in the NOC in McMurdo, but I'm not certain of it. If you mean ordinary flooring, the older buildings are modular, insulated boxes with plywood floors and carpet. The new station is steel-frame construction, sheathed in insulated plywood (18" foam, IIRC) for the walls, and steel decking with either roll-vinyl covering where there's water (laundry, galley, bathrooms, etc.) or carpet where it's dry. Dunno what's between the carpet and the steel, but I'd guess plywood or particle board. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-May-2004 23:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.8 F (-62.7 C) Windchill -129.4 F (-89.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.7 kts Grid 002 Barometer 665.1 mb (11192. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat May 29 18:53:18 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0cddeab64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I thought it was actually a DRAM chip with a transparent top (the number > 'IS32 Optic RAM' is sort-of in my mind, but I can't be sure). Sounds accurate to me - IIRC the IS32 was made by Micron. I think there was a digital camera for the BBC Micro that used the IS32, as well as the "Micron Eye". I'd love to get an IS32 or a few ceramic 4116 DRAMs (with metal covers) to play with. Remove the metal cover with a small gas torch, fit a perspex or glass cover (I suspect a microscope slide might work) and hook it up to a suitable driver circuit. There was a file called KUCKUCK.ZIP floating around too - it included some info on using a DRAM as a camera. > A real CCD is a lot better ;-) Indeed, but it's also more expensive. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Plasma is another matter. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat May 29 19:46:03 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: 1802 - elf? Message-ID: How rare are elfs? How about 1802s, could I build my own? From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 29 20:47:07 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 In-Reply-To: <00f701c445c8$b92c4b00$0500fea9@game> References: <20040529211311.GD28748@bos7.spole.gov> <036401c445c7$ba5be6d0$0500a8c0@floyd> <00f701c445c8$b92c4b00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: >Ok, I am curious. What is this thing worth? Not sure what the going price for the hardware is worth, but just the PDP-8 doc's that were included are worth more than what he got out of it. My guess is that it will be back up on eBay as soon as the buyer gets it, though it will probably be split up into multiple parts, if not individual components :^( Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 29 21:18:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: <0cddeab64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at May 30, 4 00:53:18 am Message-ID: > > I thought it was actually a DRAM chip with a transparent top (the number > > 'IS32 Optic RAM' is sort-of in my mind, but I can't be sure). > Sounds accurate to me - IIRC the IS32 was made by Micron. I think there was a > digital camera for the BBC Micro that used the IS32, as well as the "Micron > Eye". I think you're right. I remember we borrowed one at school for an open day, 1985-ish. Alas I wasn't allowed to dismantle it to see what was inside, but I remember the images had a 'gap' down the centre, like the ones produced by a DRAM would (that's where the address decoder, etc, are on the chip). > > > A real CCD is a lot better ;-) > Indeed, but it's also more expensive. Maybe back then, but I am sure these days you can get a junked camcorder for not too much and extract the CCD. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat May 29 21:57:55 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: 1802 - elf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040530025755.GA21931@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 05:46:03PM -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: > How rare are elfs? How about 1802s, could I build my own? Not sure how rare, but the 1802 is still in production (~$50), or you can find them for a lot less than that on ePay. What's rare is the 1861 "Pixie" video chip. I built a Popular-Electronics Elf here at Pole. I brought down the processor and many of the parts when I arrived, and ordered what I was missing while we still had daily flights. I finished the circuit about six weeks ago, but I still haven't found black paint to finish the switch panel. It runs, but I'm not ready to take pictures of it yet. If you aren't trying to make a picture-perfect replica of the one in the magazine, all you need is a hunk of perf board, a handful of sockets, some resistors and diodes, 11 toggle switches, 1 push button switch, a +5V power supply, and a few chips (1802, SRAM (1822/5101/2101 were used 28 years ago, but even a 2016 or 6116 would work), 2 x 4016, 2 x 4050, 4049, 4013, 4023), either a pair of hex displays (like the TIL311) or a slightly different circuit and 8 LEDs, and a clock. The two most popular frequencies are 1MHz and 1/2 of 3.579545 MHz. The P-E Elf started out at 1MHz and switched to 1.79MHz to accomodate the 1861 (by adding a 3.579545MHz crystal, a 74L00 used as an oscillator, and a 7474 to divide by two). The ACE designs specified 1.79MHz. Toggle-in programs expect one of the two frequencies. If you want to get fancy, you can hook interesting things up to the Q line, like a speaker or a relay. You can also latch some of the upper address bits and have more than 256 bytes of RAM, but that's a lot of toggling. There's an active Yahoo! Group about the 1802... http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/cosmacelf Folks are discussing new designs, there was a thread last year about reverse engineering a hand-held factory "palmtop" computer (the size of a *large* calculator) that some of us bought surplus for $4 each, there's even some people from the old days that are still around and still working with the 1802. I think you have to sign-on to access the pictures and download files (one of the pictures in the gallery is of my Quest Elf I built as a kid). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 30-May-2004 02:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.2 F (-60.2 C) Windchill -125.3 F (-87.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 20.8 kts Grid 358 Barometer 664.3 mb (11225. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat May 29 22:10:47 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 References: <20040529211311.GD28748@bos7.spole.gov> <036401c445c7$ba5be6d0$0500a8c0@floyd> <00f701c445c8$b92c4b00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <02f501c445f3$b45dc470$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 > >Ok, I am curious. What is this thing worth? > > Not sure what the going price for the hardware is worth, but just the > PDP-8 doc's that were included are worth more than what he got out of > it. My guess is that it will be back up on eBay as soon as the buyer > gets it, though it will probably be split up into multiple parts, if > not individual components :^( > > Zane > > -- > -- Its like wallstreet in the 80's where companies were purchased just to dissect them and sell off the pieces because they are worth more then the complete company. There are always machines out there you can gut and sell for a profit if your into that kind of thing. I just buy what i want for my collection and pass up anything else even if it would make me a few bucks. Once you start focusing on resale value it detracts from your hobby and can turn it into a business which I don't want to deal with. From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat May 29 22:46:54 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <1085770948.2603.13.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> References: <200405272253.PAA21765@clulw009.amd.com> <1085770948.2603.13.camel@dhcp-251211.mobile.uci.edu> Message-ID: <20040529224654.01fd9bbf.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 28 May 2004 12:02:29 -0700 Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > >Probably as much POWER as a nine-volt battery or two. If it had > > >much more, it would have been an unsafe display, as it's S.K.O.P. > > >(*) to either not see, or ignore, or spite, safety warnings, and > > >kid science museums certainly know that! > > On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 15:53, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > There is quite enough energy in a normal 9 volt battery to > > kill a person. It might need a little conversion but > > the total amount of energy stored there is quite large. > > I would suspect that there is several times less energy in\ > > YES yes yes... but you have to admit this argument is a bit > pedantic.My point was casual, and I imagine the list of people > murdered with 9V radio batteries is rather short. > Years back I worked at a medical device company and our main product ran on 9v batteries. We ended up having a big box of half-used batteries lying around. One boring day I got clever and decided to daisy chain a bunch of them together. I had about a hundred of them all snapped together in series then I hooked leads up to the end terminal. When I brought the leads close, it arced over in a very flameful fashion. I think I remember the leads actually catching on fire. What an idiot I was. 900 volts with an amp or more of current capacity behind it is extremely dangerous. > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.687 / Virus Database: 448 - Release Date: 5/16/2004 From esharpe at uswest.net Sun May 30 00:42:48 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 References: <20040529211311.GD28748@bos7.spole.gov><036401c445c7$ba5be6d0$0500a8c0@floyd><00f701c445c8$b92c4b00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <004601c44608$f122f820$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> maybe not! perhaps the buyer will keep it and cherish it! .......opps! nope looks like the buyer is in the habit of selling computer stuff.... heh heh I guess the early whore gets the worm! would have been a system we would have put up in a nice display area.... damn! it even had the real front panel on it! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Somebody just got a steal - PDP8a and ASR33 > >Ok, I am curious. What is this thing worth? > > Not sure what the going price for the hardware is worth, but just the > PDP-8 doc's that were included are worth more than what he got out of > it. My guess is that it will be back up on eBay as soon as the buyer > gets it, though it will probably be split up into multiple parts, if > not individual components :^( > > Zane > > -- > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun May 30 01:13:04 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: **:museum wants and needs re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside: museum wants and needs References: <200405290806.JAA13935@citadel.metropolis.local> <1085825883.23435.197399701@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <006101c4460d$2af38ca0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Museum wants and needs: the Sony ( WE NEED THIS ONE) you mention was the first and then there was something called a zapshot.(we have this one). these both but recorded on weird tiny disks not a direct connection to computer.... the quicktake 100 is the one that is considered first for a commercial production camera that hooks to a pc ( or mac) these quick takes are pretty reasonable it seems. picked up some for the museum and also off site displays. we are of course looking for other early examples for the display too... would be interested in an example with doc on the one mentioned here that used the memory chip with the apple II also need examples of early computing systems, we the addition of the future building more room for old iron! any b-205's , GE 200 systems, IBM 650's or old tab equip like a 402 or 407 avail? on the sci-fi front.... need anything related to Andre Norton. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vohs" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:18 AM Subject: Re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside > Hmmm...if I had to guess, I would say the first digital cameraever sold > was the *original* Sony Mavica (circa mid 1980's). I remember reading > something about it in an old "Compute!" magazine that I have back home. > If I remember correctly, it used a 2.5" (or similar) floppy disk. Your > guess is as good as mine as to how you imported images from the camera to > a computer (2.5" floppy drive perhaps?). I wouldn't be surprised to find > out that it was not color, though. > > > > > I do have a digital camera, and it's on-topic (as it's well over 10 years > > > old). It's a Datacopy 300, which uses a linear (1 - dimensional) CCD > > > tracked across the image plane with a leadscrew. I also have the > > > interface card for it, for the PERQ of course. One day I must have a go > > > at getting it all working... > > > > I remember reading about those, or one like it, at the time. > > > > The Apple Quicktake 100 is 10 years old now, and mine still works fine. > > I wonder, what was the first digital camera on sale to the general > > public - as opposed to being aimed at a commercial market? > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > > > The future was never like this! > > > > > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun May 30 02:07:39 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: 1802 - elf? In-Reply-To: <20040530025755.GA21931@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040530025755.GA21931@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <0960B2AC-B208-11D8-B370-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On May 29, 2004, at 7:57 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 05:46:03PM -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: >> How rare are elfs? How about 1802s, could I build my own? > > Not sure how rare, but the 1802 is still in production (~$50), or you > can > find them for a lot less than that on ePay. What's rare is the 1861 > "Pixie" > video chip. yipes $50 will have to wait till I get work again... Reason I ask is I just downloaded Elf emulators for both my palm (clea) and my ibook... From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 03:27:16 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Re: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms" (May 29, 11:09) References: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405291109.41608.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <10405300927.ZM28971@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 29, 11:09, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Hmm, this is turning into "who's computer room hasn't flooded?" :-) > Anyhow, > we've had similar problems with the drains from our Leibert A/C units > getting clogged and overflowing Hmm, ours is a Liebert too... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun May 30 03:00:34 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 29 May 2004 23:27:00 BST." Message-ID: <200405300800.JAA25775@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > A little OT but certainly related: I had a 'camera' made by MicroMint > > (Steve Ciarcia) made to work with an Apple ][. It was basically a > > photo-eraseable EPROM and an adapter card for the Apple. > > I thought it was actually a DRAM chip with a transparent top (the number > 'IS32 Optic RAM' is sort-of in my mind, but I can't be sure). Light > falling on the storage capacitors causes them to discharge faster. You > fill the RAM with 1s, wait a little bit, and read it out. The cells that > read as 0s have had a lot of light falling on them. Then fill the RAM > with 1s again, wait a bit longer. The extra cells that read out as 0s > have had some, but less, light falling on them. Repeat for 8 or so times > (to get 3 bits/pixel). I remember reading about that being done for an astronomical telescope camera - in the early '80s I think. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun May 30 07:10:46 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: IS32 Optic RAM Datasheet and Steve Ciarcia's Micro D-CAM Artical Message-ID: <200405301210.i4UCAkhc042902@huey.classiccmp.org> I've just checked my archives, and I have a copy of the original two-part artical, called: Build the Micro D-Cam Solid-State Video Camera Part1: The IS32 Optic RAM and the Micro D-Cam Hardware - Sep 1983 BYTE Part2: Computer interface and Control software - Oct 1983 BYTE I also have a copy of the Micron Technology IS32 OpticRAM data sheet. If anyone is interested, I can scan them and post them for public consumption. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun May 30 08:50:48 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? Message-ID: <200405301350.i4UDomhc043208@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, Rescued an Apple clone from the trash yesterday (Ci Base48) - appears to be all there, but power supply is dead. I've had a bit of experience with small DC transformerless switchers, but not with mains power, transformer based switchers like this. Fuse was blown - replace, powered up through a 60w light bulb, the lamp comes on (and stays on) at full intensity - clearly excessive draw. Board bears the name "Seasonic". I have no schematics. >From what I can tell: - Mains power goes to full-wave bridge rectifier and filter caps to produce HV DC supply. - HV DC supply goes through fuse to a single heat-sinked power transistor (C2979) which drives the transformer primary. - Secondaries from transformer are recitied by big heat-sinked diodes, then filtered, and monitored by a circuit, which feeds back through an opto- isolator to the control circuit for the power transistor driving the primary (presumably this is the method of voltage regulation). Opservations: (Powering unit through isolation transformar, variac and 60w light bulb) - With fuse removed, HV DC supply apears to work fine. Filter caps charge up to in the high 100's Volts. - No light from lamp indicating very little drain (as expected). - With fuse installed, lamp lights at full intensity. No voltage measured across HV filter caps at all. - Power transistor does not appear shorted - Removed from circuit and using a diode test function, it shows two normal semiconductor junctions. Can anyone offer suggestions on where to look next? Are there any common failure modes of this type of power supply design? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 09:31:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 29, 22:58) References: <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <20040529225847.GD843@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <10405301531.ZM29144@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 29, 22:58, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 03:41:50PM -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: > > How do you lift the carpet covered ones? Hook velcro on handles? > > I've seen a tool that resembles the suction-cup lifter, but instead of > rubber cups, there are square plates with tiny metal hooks, rather like > velcro. You place the tool on the carpet and slide it in one direction > to snag the carpet, and slide it in the other direction to release it. Ours are a bit like that; there's a lever on the top to slide the two plates apart. The spikes are about 1/4" long. They all seem to be like that; one of ours recently went missing and I contacted a lot of companies to get a replacement. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun May 30 10:02:28 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: IS32 Optic RAM Datasheet and Steve Ciarcia's Micro D-CAM Artical In-Reply-To: <200405301210.i4UCAkhc042902@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405301210.i4UCAkhc042902@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: In message <200405301210.i4UCAkhc042902@huey.classiccmp.org> Dave Dunfield wrote: > I've just checked my archives, and I have a copy of the original > two-part artical, called: > > Build the Micro D-Cam Solid-State Video Camera > > Part1: The IS32 Optic RAM and the Micro D-Cam Hardware - Sep 1983 BYTE > Part2: Computer interface and Control software - Oct 1983 BYTE > > I also have a copy of the Micron Technology IS32 OpticRAM data sheet. > > If anyone is interested, I can scan them and post them for public consumption. Wow - if they're not too difficult to scan, that'd be great. TTBOMK not even Partminer has a datasheet for the IS32. The BYTE articles are pretty elusive too, IME. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... You may be recognized soon. Perhaps you should hide? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun May 30 10:00:46 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > but I remember the images had a 'gap' down the centre, like the > ones produced by a DRAM would (that's where the address decoder, etc, are > on the chip). That sounds about right. I'd probably rig up a cheap camera lens to focus the image onto one of the halves of the RAM array. I found the "Kuckuck" archive as well - it's in German: It uses a ceramic-with-gold-top NEC 4164 DRAM. Anyone got a few spares lying around? > Maybe back then, but I am sure these days you can get a junked camcorder for > not too much and extract the CCD. I've got a few JVC camcorder viewfinders that have been reverse-engineered to the point of being able to display PAL composite video. I might try one of them on my COSMAC ELF later, just to see if they can sync to NTSC as well. OT: And now to go back to the fun job of fiddling with a pair of dead Jenoptik cameras. I've got one working, another just needs some connectors reseating. I would like to know what the 8-pin SOIC chip that sits between the camera controller and the video output. Hmm. Pin8 is video out.. Pin5/Pin6 GND, pin7 NC.. Hm. Fun! :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... The mark of a true professional is giving more than you get. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 12:06:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? In-Reply-To: <200405301350.i4UDomhc043208@huey.classiccmp.org> from "Dave Dunfield" at May 30, 4 08:50:48 am Message-ID: > > Hi, > > Rescued an Apple clone from the trash yesterday (Ci Base48) - appears to be > all there, but power supply is dead. I've had a bit of experience with small > DC transformerless switchers, but not with mains power, transformer based > switchers like this. I've worked on a few, including the infamous supply in the 11/44 and lived to tell the tale... > > Fuse was blown - replace, powered up through a 60w light bulb, the lamp > comes on (and stays on) at full intensity - clearly excessive draw. OK, good first move. > > Board bears the name "Seasonic". I have no schematics. I'd probalby be inclimed tp draw them out, but then I don't generally worry about doing that. It can't be that complicated > > >From what I can tell: > > - Mains power goes to full-wave bridge rectifier and filter caps to produce > HV DC supply. Very normal > > - HV DC supply goes through fuse to a single heat-sinked power transistor > (C2979) which drives the transformer primary. Again, normal. I assume you know that's 2SC2979. Japanese transistors often leave the '2S' off the part number. > > - Secondaries from transformer are recitied by big heat-sinked diodes, then > filtered, and monitored by a circuit, which feeds back through an opto- > isolator to the control circuit for the power transistor driving the primary > (presumably this is the method of voltage regulation). Again very normal. The opto-isolator feedback loop is the voltage regulator loop as you guessed. There may be a TL431 or clone in the secondary side, driving the LED of the optoisolator. The reason I mention this is that the TL431 looks like a transistor (TO92 pacakge), but doesn't test like one. This has 'thrown' a few people... > > Opservations: > > (Powering unit through isolation transformar, variac and 60w light bulb) > > - With fuse removed, HV DC supply apears to work fine. Filter caps charge > up to in the high 100's Volts. - No light from lamp indicating very little > drain (as expected). > - With fuse installed, lamp lights at full intensity. No voltage measured > across HV filter caps at all. > > - Power transistor does not appear shorted - Removed from circuit and using > a diode test function, it shows two normal semiconductor junctions. > > > Can anyone offer suggestions on where to look next? Are there any common failure > modes of this type of power supply design? The common failure modes are the mains rectifier diodes and the chopper transsitor. It appears both are good in your case.. I would now check all components arround the primary side of the chopper transformer (a shorted capacitor can be 'interesting', and maybe check for shorts in the diodes on the secondary side of the PSU. Another trick is to disconnect the base of the chopper and connect it to the emitter. This means the chopper should be turned hard off. Try again with the series bulb. If it lights, then you have a short in the chopper area (maybe the transistor is breaking down or something). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 12:10:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at May 30, 4 04:00:46 pm Message-ID: > > Maybe back then, but I am sure these days you can get a junked camcorder for > > not too much and extract the CCD. > I've got a few JVC camcorder viewfinders that have been reverse-engineered to > the point of being able to display PAL composite video. I might try one of Normally you can get JVC service manuals... All my video cameras have the old-fashioned CRT-based viewfinders, and it's generally easy to see where to feed video into those. > them on my COSMAC ELF later, just to see if they can sync to NTSC as well. > > OT: > And now to go back to the fun job of fiddling with a pair of dead Jenoptik > cameras. I've got one working, another just needs some connectors reseating. > I would like to know what the 8-pin SOIC chip that sits between the camera > controller and the video output. Hmm. Pin8 is video out.. Pin5/Pin6 GND, pin7 > NC.. Hm. Fun! :) Any markings on it at all? -tony From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun May 30 12:16:48 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? In-Reply-To: <200405301350.i4UDomhc043208@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200405301350.i4UDomhc043208@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4091.65.123.179.158.1085937408.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> SMPS are always a pain to troubleshoot, and I've always opted to find a replacement. In this case that isn't probably feasible so --- I'd buckshot the components in the switch driver, such as the IC. Sounds like the traansistor/FET isn't getting drive, or it is being biased hard on. Do you have a bad rectifier on one of the outputs? Escessive load? If all else fails, maybe you can find another PS that will fit into the box, with the same voltage outputs/currrent ratings. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > Hi, > > Rescued an Apple clone from the trash yesterday (Ci Base48) - appears to > be > all there, but power supply is dead. I've had a bit of experience with > small > DC transformerless switchers, but not with mains power, transformer based > switchers like this. > - Power transistor does not appear shorted - Removed from circuit and > using > a diode test function, it shows two normal semiconductor junctions. > > > Can anyone offer suggestions on where to look next? Are there any common > failure > modes of this type of power supply design? > > Regards, > Dave From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 12:23:31 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: der Mouse "Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 28, 12:20) References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <200405281624.MAA17733@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <10405301823.ZM29238@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 28, 12:20, der Mouse wrote: > >> I suppose the [raised-floor tiles] I am familiar with from the one > >> job I've worked at that used them are atypical, then. They [...] > > I've worked in an office which had those too, so you're not alone. > > They were very tight fitting too, and needed a couple of big > > suction-cups to lift them up. They could take one hell of a weight > > though. > > Matches my experience on all counts. (Though if you start with a tile > with a hole cut in it, so you can get a grip by hand, you don't need > the suction cups. A screwdriver between the tiles can also turn the > trick. On May 28, 12:46, McFadden, Mike wrote: > I have a pile of computer flooring setting in the corner of my garage. > The hospital removed it and I'm hoping to set up a computer room. My > wife keeps asking about when and where. > > Tiles have a black rubber/plastic edge about ? inch wide on all edges. > Center is tile/hard linoleum. Structure is steel with an x pattern > on the bottom. Very heavy. The tracks to support the tiles are metal > channels [...] Mine are high-density chipboard about 45mm thick with zinc-plated steel cladding top and bottom (the steel is pretty thin). The top side is further clad with hard vinyl floorcovering. The sides are beveled to make it easier to lift each one in and out, and have a plastic strip bonded to them to prevent moisture ingress; each corner has a metal plate that helps locate them correctly on the crossheads on the legs. The suports are just over 1" diameter zinc-plated steel with a cast alloy crosshead on the top. They're epoxied to the concrete floor and there are no stringers or stretchers between the legs. They are similar to the Guardian range made by Propaflor, the specs for which you can see at http://www.propaflor.co.uk/public_html/gheavy.htm The ones at work are just like the Guardian Heavy range, with carpet-like material on the top. Mine (at home) and the ones at work are all fitted together so closely that you couldn't really get a screwdriver between them to prise them up. If you're curious about the translation of Newtons to American weights, the lightest range (Propadek, 30mm thick, unclad) on those pages says it can support 1500 Newtons on any single 1" square of the tile -- that's about 330lb. The 38mm version can support twice that. The middle range (Spacedek) claims up to 4500 N, that's half a ton. The Guardian range goes up a bit more, and claims to support almost a ton and a quarter (2455lb) on four equidistant points, each a third of the way in from the corners of the 600mm square tile. > The only problem with the suction cup tile pullers is that picking a > tile up at an angle can result in dropped tiles, they loose suction. If they're two-cup suction lifters, they probably need cleaned. They sometimes get like that when they get grit embedded in them. If they're one-cup versions, they're meant for pulling dents in car bodywork, not floors :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 12:39:49 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: IBM AT Free to a Good Home In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: IBM AT Free to a Good Home" (May 26, 0:02) References: Message-ID: <10405301839.ZM29253@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 26, 0:02, Tony Duell wrote: > All the passengers got out of their seats and rushed to see this. > Unfortunately, the uneven weight distribution caused ther plane to roll > over and crash. > > Which illustrates that 'Too many poles in the right hand half of the > plane leads to instabilty' :-) LOL! If you've not already seen them, you'd probably be interested in two pages designed by one of my mentors, who taught me on the digitasl Filter Design course some years ago: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/lcfilter/ http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/mkfilter/ Tony (Fisher) probably knew the joke. He wrote, "I've been advised to say that, although I believe the package to be bug-free, you use the results at your own peril, and you're advised to check them for correctness before using them. Don't blame me if your aircraft falls out of the sky!" -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 13:03:49 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: ftp vs http vs scp In-Reply-To: Roger Merchberger "Re: ftp vs http vs scp" (May 28, 13:34) References: <200405281148.28863.pat@computer-refuge.org> <0405281641.AA06511@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <5.1.0.14.2.20040528132812.039e5af8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <10405301903.ZM29302@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 28, 13:34, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Jules Richardson may have mentioned these words: > >On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 16:48, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Personally, I rather be > > > able to press than retype a 40+ character command line that I > > > mis-typed a single letter on. > > >Doesn't that particular form of simple command line editing (eg. ^a^b) > >work in the original sh? :-) > > Yes, but and tab file/command completion don't. No, none of those exist in the original 'sh' (Bourne Shell), not even in fairly recent varieties, such as in late-90s IRIX. However, command line editing (using a large subset of vi commands) and command history exist in the Korn Shell (ksh). You might have been confused by that, since many recent UNIXes provide an "sh" as a symlink to "ksh", just as linux provides "sh" as just a symlink to "bash". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun May 30 13:08:59 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <692d4fb74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Normally you can get JVC service manuals... I didn't feel like spending ?30 to ?90 on a manual when all I wanted was the finder pinouts. The camera lens was smashed to bits. > All my video cameras have the > old-fashioned CRT-based viewfinders, and it's generally easy to see where > to feed video into those. Same with the family camcorder. It's a fairly big black Sony Handycam that takes a Video8 tape, has the standard array of controls (including focus-lock and zoom). TTBOMK a fair bit of the tape mechanism is metal, aside from a few plastic bits "here and there". Nice camera, except the batteries are truly shot and a bit difficult to get. I think Sony still make the batteries, but they're more expensive than the InfoLithium batteries for the newer camcorders. Ah well, such is life. > Any markings on it at all? The chip is missing. Looks like it's a case of "fit this chip and the video connector and drill a hole in the case" - the firmware has all the Video Out options enabled. I guess the chip is probably a video buffer. SunPlus don't seem to want to tell anyone just what signals the "integrated video output" on the camera controller IC produces. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... A phaser on stun is like a day without orange juice. From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 30 14:00:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: 1802 - elf? In-Reply-To: <20040530025755.GA21931@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Folks are discussing new designs, there was a thread last year about reverse > engineering a hand-held factory "palmtop" computer (the size of a *large* > calculator) that some of us bought surplus for $4 each, there's even some > people from the old days that are still around and still working with the > 1802. That would be the MSi-88 (something like that), with barcode scanner and all? I've got a few of those. I was surprised to find the 1802 inside when I opened one up to investigate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 30 14:02:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: <20040529224654.01fd9bbf.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > One boring day I got clever and decided to daisy chain a bunch of them > together. I had about a hundred of them all snapped together in series > then I hooked leads up to the end terminal. When I brought the leads > close, it arced over in a very flameful fashion. I think I remember the > leads actually catching on fire. > > What an idiot I was. 900 volts with an amp or more of current capacity > behind it is extremely dangerous. "Self-entertaining" comes to mind :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun May 30 14:03:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: **:museum wants and needs re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside: museum wants and needs In-Reply-To: <006101c4460d$2af38ca0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > the Sony ( WE NEED THIS ONE) you mention was the first and then there was > something called a zapshot.(we have this one). these both but recorded on Canon XapShot > weird tiny disks not a direct connection to computer.... the quicktake 100 > is the one that is considered first for a commercial production camera that > hooks to a pc ( or mac) these quick takes are pretty reasonable it seems. > picked up some for the museum and also off site displays. Nope, it's the Dycam 1. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sun May 30 14:11:14 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org><000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom><16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL><10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain><01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <002101c4467b$d4b88240$bb72fea9@geoff> It's a tool, a lot like the ones that carpet fitters use to stretch a fitted carpet, that has two sets of spikes protruding from the base. You grip the carpet by hitting the tile at an angle with the tool . Surprisingly effective. There is also a lever in the handle to put more tension in the grip of the spikes. Haven't seen it in use for a while as there aren't any carpet tiles with us. ( We're not posh enough , obviously.) Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 11:41 PM Subject: Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning > > On May 29, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > in the posher areas- are top-lined with > > carpet instead of lineoleum. Metal edges and supported on all four > > corners > > by metal pillars. > > ' > > How do you lift the carpet covered ones? Hook velcro on handles? > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 15:04:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? In-Reply-To: <4091.65.123.179.158.1085937408.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> from "ghldbrd@ccp.com" at May 30, 4 12:16:48 pm Message-ID: > > SMPS are always a pain to troubleshoot, and I've always opted to find a > replacement. In this case that isn't probably feasible so --- They are a pain to troubleshoot, but they're also a part of the classic computer, and thus should be repaired and preserved. Why do people seem to think that 'classic computer' == 'CPU only'? > > I'd buckshot the components in the switch driver, such as the IC. Sounds In a supply of this age, I would not be suprised if the chopper driver was discrete transsitors. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 15:11:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: "First" digital camera In-Reply-To: <692d4fb74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at May 30, 4 07:08:59 pm Message-ID: > > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > Normally you can get JVC service manuals... > I didn't feel like spending =A330 to =A390 on a manual when all I wanted = > was the > finder pinouts. The camera lens was smashed to bits. Yes, but the schematics of the finder would be useful if you ever need to repair it. Anyway, \pounds 90 is very expensive for a video service manual. I assume you tried some of the places that advertise in the back pages of Television magazine. I think you'd ahve found one there for under 20 quid. > > > All my video cameras have the=20 > > old-fashioned CRT-based viewfinders, and it's generally easy to see whe= > re=20 > > to feed video into those. > Same with the family camcorder. It's a fairly big black Sony Handycam tha= > t > takes a Video8 tape, has the standard array of controls (including My Handycam is one of the original ones... Record only, and with an optical (not even reflex) viewfinder. Apparently, when you'd recorded whatever on the 8mm tape, you either played it back on a little tabletop recorder/player (I have this), or sent it to Sony, who would copy it to Betamax (what else :-)) for you. Hmmm.. > focus-lock and zoom). TTBOMK a fair bit of the tape mechanism is metal, > aside from a few plastic bits "here and there". Nice camera, except the > batteries are truly shot and a bit difficult to get. I think Sony still m= > ake Can you not rebuild the battery pack? Cut it open, replace the cells? To put this on-topic (slightly), that's what I do with HP calculator batteries.. > > Any markings on it at all?=20 > The chip is missing. Looks like it's a case of "fit this chip and the vid= > eo > connector and drill a hole in the case" - the firmware has all the Video = > Out > options enabled. Oh, right... It's got 8 pins, you'vr indtified 2 as ground, and one as the video output. One is not used. That leaves 4. At least one must be a power supply line (maybe identifyable either by having a steady DC voltage on it, or by havine a sizeable (100nF or more) decoupling capacitor on it. HAve you tried probing the unknown connections with a 'scope? > I guess the chip is probably a video buffer. SunPlus don't seem to want t= Elantec made/make a fair number of those, many of them fixed-gain (including unity gain), and many in 8 pin DIL packages. Have you looked at their databook yet? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 15:14:24 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Discharging CRT anode and capacitors on a VT52 DECscope In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at May 30, 4 12:02:13 pm Message-ID: > > What an idiot I was. 900 volts with an amp or more of current capacity > > behind it is extremely dangerous. > > "Self-entertaining" comes to mind :) Hmmm... One time we needed a 600V (or so) supply with a very low noise. We filled a suitable metal tube with those 12V batteries that are about the size of N cells, all in series. 50 of them in all. The result was a low noise 600V supply, it was also totally lethal! -tony From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun May 30 15:25:23 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? Message-ID: <7AD291F6-B277-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> My Lilith workstation keyboard seems to have taken an "electric" beating, i.e. a 12 v to 5V short. The wiring inside the machine was not the best...... It took out the 8035, a 74ls373 and, much worse, an unknown to me Exar IC 22-908-03, datecode 1983 The first two are easy to replace, the Exar is much worse. Anybody have a pinout, a datasheet or an idea just what it might be ? Jos From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun May 30 16:34:38 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: 1802 - elf? In-Reply-To: References: <20040530025755.GA21931@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040530213438.GB11218@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 12:00:30PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 30 May 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > ...there was a thread last year about reverse engineering a hand-held > > factory "palmtop" computer (the size of a *large* calculator) that some > > of us bought surplus for $4 each > > That would be the MSi-88 (something like that), with barcode scanner and > all? I've got a few of those. I was surprised to find the 1802 inside > when I opened one up to investigate. That's the one. We've managed to get some of it understood, but I think the effort has lost some steam. I bought a couple specifically because of the 1802. I'd been hoping for some LCD models, but by the time I heard about them, only LED models were left. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 30-May-2004 21:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -50.8 F (-46.0 C) Windchill -87 F (-66.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.4 kts Grid 326 Barometer 666.1 mb (11156 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 17:03:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: Jos Dreesen "Exar 22-908-03 anyone ?" (May 30, 22:25) References: <7AD291F6-B277-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <10405302303.ZM29523@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 30, 22:25, Jos Dreesen wrote: > My Lilith workstation keyboard seems to have taken an "electric" > beating, i.e. a 12 v to 5V short. > The wiring inside the machine was not the best...... > > It took out the 8035, a 74ls373 and, much worse, an unknown to me Exar > IC 22-908-03, datecode 1983 > > The first two are easy to replace, the Exar is much worse. > > Anybody have a pinout, a datasheet or an idea just what it might be ? I've got an Exar databook, but I'm afraid it's dated 1992, and everything in it is XR-xxx or XR-xxxx (occasionally with a single letter in front of the xxx). The XR-22xx devices are all phase-lock loops or VCOs, the XR-9080 is a "frequency synthesiser, data synchronizer/1,7 RLL ENDEC" in a 52-pin QFP package. Other XR-90xx devices seem to all be related to disk heads; they're preamps, filters, samplers, and pulse detectors. The XR-9050 seems to be an older simpler version of that. It's a 28-pin SOIC or PLCC described as a "24 Mbit/sec Data synchronization/1,7 RLL ENDEC", "faster than similar bipolar devices". Could your 22-908-03 be something to do with a hard drive controller? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 17:14:26 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning In-Reply-To: "Geoffrey Thomas" "Re: Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning" (May 30, 20:11) References: <20040527041825.GB1072@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c443ab$1ef15ea0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> <16565.58634.141000.800369@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10405272114.ZM26031@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280018.UAA04563@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <10405280802.ZM27095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200405280847.EAA16008@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1085740948.3081.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <01e601c445c5$b5e6eb60$bb72fea9@geoff> <60393C0B-B1C1-11D8-9844-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <002101c4467b$d4b88240$bb72fea9@geoff> Message-ID: <10405302314.ZM29568@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 30, 20:11, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > It's a tool, a lot like the ones that carpet fitters use to stretch a fitted > carpet, that has two sets of spikes protruding from the base. You grip the > carpet by hitting the tile at an angle with the tool . Surprisingly > effective. There is also a lever in the handle to put more tension in the > grip of the spikes. Haven't seen it in use for a while as there aren't any > carpet tiles with us. ( We're not posh enough , obviously.) Nah, you're just not daft enough to have dust-encouraging carpet in your machine room :-) Besides, it's much easier to get the solder splashes off a hard floor covering, and it doesn't singe when the sparks hit it ;-) I've just been reminded of a photograph I was shown a few weeks ago at a network conference. A senior manager from JANET ops (who run the national backbone) described a recent installation at a site housing one of the main backbone routers. There had been "an issue" with water leakage from the flat roof so the local staff had built protection for the backbone router and its associated equipment (several racks), right in the otherwise-normal looking machine room. It consisted of a greenhouse frame with pitched roof, complete with gutters and downpipes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun May 30 17:36:10 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:58 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? Message-ID: <200405302236.i4UMaAhc045713@huey.classiccmp.org> At 21:04 30/05/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> >> SMPS are always a pain to troubleshoot, and I've always opted to find a >> replacement. In this case that isn't probably feasible so --- > >They are a pain to troubleshoot, but they're also a part of the classic >computer, and thus should be repaired and preserved. Why do people seem >to think that 'classic computer' == 'CPU only'? Agreed - I could easily put in a PC supply, and I even have a couple from "slimline" PC's which would probably fit the box - however I want the machine to be as original as possible. >> I'd buckshot the components in the switch driver, such as the IC. Sounds > >In a supply of this age, I would not be suprised if the chopper driver >was discrete transsitors. It is - the only IC is the Opto-isolator. Anyway - I found the problem - It was a shorted capacitor on the primary side of the transformer - what threw me off was it was NOT one of the electrolytics... There's another one beside it which is just like it, so I think I will replace both. Supply works fine now - and so does the entire machine. (Joy at getting an old Apple clone working somewhat overshadowed by the fact that I finally found a Kaypro today!) Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun May 30 18:01:05 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: IS32 Optic RAM Datasheet and Steve Ciarcia's Micro D-CAM Artical Message-ID: <200405302301.i4UN15hc045819@huey.classiccmp.org> >> I've just checked my archives, and I have a copy of the original >> two-part artical, called: Build the Micro D-Cam Solid-State Video Camera >> I also have a copy of the Micron Technology IS32 OpticRAM data sheet. >> If anyone is interested, I can scan them and post them for public consumption. >Wow - if they're not too difficult to scan, that'd be great. TTBOMK not even >Partminer has a datasheet for the IS32. The BYTE articles are pretty elusive >too, IME. Ok - I will try to do it soon - I know I'm going to be swamped this week, and the material is going to take a little bit of tweaking to scan - they are photocopies, which are fairly readable, but an many of the artical pages the text goes right to the edge of the page (doesn't look like any of it was lost) - so I'll probably have to do it on the flatbed and fool with the page position a bit. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun May 30 18:59:28 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: DECnet/E Version mystery Message-ID: Does anyone know what the story is with DECnet/E V4.2 which apparently dates back to late 1988 or early 1989? How does one go about getting a copy? I'm curious as it's apparently the correct version starting with RSTS/E V9.7 & V10.0, and yet Mentec only lists DECnet/E V4.1 as available. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Sun May 30 19:22:04 2004 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: selectric consoles Message-ID: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> I think Selectrics are pretty cool; I'd kinda like one I could use as a printer, and if it could be a full serial tty that would be even cooler. So far, I've found that IBM made the 1050 and the 2741 selectric-based console terminals, both of which were large, heavy, and not very reliable. Did IBM ever do any better, like say a serial module for a selectric III? I know some of the Wheelwriter typewriters had serial ports, but the golf ball type elements are just too much cooler. I found some web pages that talk about Trendata ttys based on selectrics, but very little hard info; anyone here know anything about them? I also remember the ByteWriter and similar contraptions that strapped a bunch of solenoids on top of a typewriter keyboard, but while entertainingly kludgy, that lacks a certain degree of elegance. --akb From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 19:28:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: <7AD291F6-B277-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> from "Jos Dreesen" at May 30, 4 10:25:23 pm Message-ID: > > My Lilith workstation keyboard seems to have taken an "electric" > beating, i.e. a 12 v to 5V short. > The wiring inside the machine was not the best...... > > It took out the 8035, a 74ls373 and, much worse, an unknown to me Exar > IC 22-908-03, datecode 1983 How many pins does this have? THis sounds a lot like one of the 2 semi-custom ICs used with a Keytronics capacitive keyboard. I've seen 22-908-3B and 22-950-3B used in the PERQ 2 series and elsewhere. They have 20 pins each. The former is the (latching) sense amplifier between the 8 keyboard row lines and an 8 bit input on the microcontroller. Some later Keytronics keyboards have a 40 pin chip that contains both the sense amplifiers and the column drivers. The number for this eludes me at the momnet. You might be able to get a replacement for these from another Keytronics keyboard (e.g. a PC one). > > The first two are easy to replace, the Exar is much worse. > > Anybody have a pinout, a datasheet or an idea just what it might be ? I should be able to find pinouts for the PERQ keyboard ICs. Incidentally, I assume there's an EPROM in the keyboard (The 8035 has no internal ROM, the '373 sounds like an address latch). Did this survive? Do you have an image of it? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 19:33:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? In-Reply-To: <200405302236.i4UMaAhc045713@huey.classiccmp.org> from "Dave Dunfield" at May 30, 4 05:36:10 pm Message-ID: > >> I'd buckshot the components in the switch driver, such as the IC. Sounds > > > >In a supply of this age, I would not be suprised if the chopper driver > >was discrete transsitors. > > It is - the only IC is the Opto-isolator. What, not even a TL431 in the secondary-side regulator? That does suprise me. > > Anyway - I found the problem - It was a shorted capacitor on the primary side Well done! > of the transformer - what threw me off was it was NOT one of the electrolytics... > There's another one beside it which is just like it, so I think I will replace > both. Maybe part of the snubber network on the primary of the chopper transformer. In which case, check the associated diodes too. > > Supply works fine now - and so does the entire machine. > > (Joy at getting an old Apple clone working somewhat overshadowed by the fact > that I finally found a Kaypro today!) I really must find a CP/M luggable sometime.... -tony From medavidson at mac.com Sun May 30 20:12:50 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: <7AD291F6-B277-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> References: <7AD291F6-B277-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: On May 30, 2004, at 1:25 PM, Jos Dreesen wrote: > My Lilith workstation keyboard seems to have taken an "electric" > beating, i.e. a 12 v to 5V short. > The wiring inside the machine was not the best...... > A Lilith??? Is the the Modula-2 based system? If so, I envy you... those are amazing machines! Mark From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon May 31 00:46:23 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony Duell heeft op maandag, 31 mei 2004 om 02:28 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: >> It took out the 8035, a 74ls373 and, much worse, an unknown to me Exar >> IC 22-908-03, datecode 1983 > > How many pins does this have? It is a 20 pin IC and it sits at the receiving end of the keyboard matrix, the other side of the matrix is driven by two 74138. > > THis sounds a lot like one of the 2 semi-custom ICs used with a > Keytronics capacitive keyboard. I've seen 22-908-3B and 22-950-3B used > in > the PERQ 2 series and elsewhere. They have 20 pins each. The former is > the (latching) sense amplifier between the 8 keyboard row lines and an > 8 > bit input on the microcontroller. It seems to be the exact same IC. The keyboard is indeed a Keytronics. > > You might be able to get a replacement for these from another > Keytronics > keyboard (e.g. a PC one). I'l start looking around.. > > > I should be able to find pinouts for the PERQ keyboard ICs. I was hoping to kludge a replacement with some TTL's, but this might be difficult with a capacitive coupled keyboard. > > Incidentally, I assume there's an EPROM in the keyboard (The 8035 has > no > internal ROM, the '373 sounds like an address latch). Did this survive? The '373 was indeed the addresslatch for the 8035. The eprom (I do have an image) seems to have survived OK, since after replacement of both IC I see the scanning signals on the driver side of the matrix, which weren't there before. Thanks for all input, Jos From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon May 31 00:49:15 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: <10405302303.ZM29523@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3FD383CE-B2C6-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Pete Turnbull heeft op maandag, 31 mei 2004 om 00:03 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: > > I've got an Exar databook, but I'm afraid it's dated 1992, and > > Could your 22-908-03 be something to do with a hard drive controller? It was part of keyboard matrix. Tony's suggestion seems to be spot on. Exar seems to have had a very broad range of devices back then... Jos From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon May 31 00:59:59 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Davidson heeft op maandag, 31 mei 2004 om 03:12 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: >> > A Lilith??? Is the the Modula-2 based system? If so, I envy you... > those are amazing machines! They seem to have an interesting architecture, if only the build quality would have matched it, then my machine might have survived better.... Some documents on Lilith have been put on the web recently : www.cfbsoftware.com/modula2/ Jos From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon May 31 01:13:02 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Switching supply expertise? In-Reply-To: References: <200405302236.i4UMaAhc045713@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040530231210.01eb2ae0@mail.zipcon.net> speaking of kaypros I may have a couple available shortly, they are in my garage and I need to see which ones work and are complete I'm probably keeping one of them. At 05:33 PM 5/30/2004, you wrote: > > >> I'd buckshot the components in the switch driver, such as the > IC. Sounds > > > > > >In a supply of this age, I would not be suprised if the chopper driver > > >was discrete transsitors. > > > > It is - the only IC is the Opto-isolator. > >What, not even a TL431 in the secondary-side regulator? That does suprise me. > > > > > Anyway - I found the problem - It was a shorted capacitor on the > primary side > >Well done! > > > of the transformer - what threw me off was it was NOT one of the > electrolytics... > > There's another one beside it which is just like it, so I think I will > replace > > both. > >Maybe part of the snubber network on the primary of the chopper >transformer. In which case, check the associated diodes too. > > > > > Supply works fine now - and so does the entire machine. > > > > (Joy at getting an old Apple clone working somewhat overshadowed by the > fact > > that I finally found a Kaypro today!) > >I really must find a CP/M luggable sometime.... > >-tony From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 01:17:08 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: **:museum wants and needs re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside: museum wants and needs References: Message-ID: <001b01c446d6$ea2e3920$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> dycam? I am lost...in reply to which part of msg? ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: Re: **:museum wants and needs re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside: museum wants and needs > On Sat, 29 May 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > the Sony ( WE NEED THIS ONE) you mention was the first and then there was > > something called a zapshot.(we have this one). these both but recorded on > > Canon XapShot > > > weird tiny disks not a direct connection to computer.... the quicktake 100 > > is the one that is considered first for a commercial production camera that > > hooks to a pc ( or mac) these quick takes are pretty reasonable it seems. > > picked up some for the museum and also off site displays. > > Nope, it's the Dycam 1. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 31 03:55:25 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: Jos Dreesen "Re: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ?" (May 31, 7:49) References: <3FD383CE-B2C6-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <10405310955.ZM29961@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 31, 7:49, Jos Dreesen wrote: > > Pete Turnbull heeft op maandag, 31 mei 2004 om 00:03 (Europe/Zurich) > het volgende geschreven: > > > > I've got an Exar databook, but I'm afraid it's dated 1992, and > > > > Could your 22-908-03 be something to do with a hard drive controller? > > It was part of keyboard matrix. Tony's suggestion seems to be spot on. > Exar seems to have had a very broad range of devices back then... Yes, I'd forgotten about those keyboard chips. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 12:00:44 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: **:museum wants and needs re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside: museum wants and needs References: Message-ID: <003301c44730$d2e08bb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> "Nope, it's the Dycam 1." Thanks.... we were heading in the wrong direction. does anyone have a couple extra Dycam 1. units they would like to see out on display? Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: Re: **:museum wants and needs re: What's the weirdest thing that you've ever found inside: museum wants and needs > On Sat, 29 May 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > the Sony ( WE NEED THIS ONE) you mention was the first and then there was > > something called a zapshot.(we have this one). these both but recorded on > > Canon XapShot > > > weird tiny disks not a direct connection to computer.... the quicktake 100 > > is the one that is considered first for a commercial production camera that > > hooks to a pc ( or mac) these quick takes are pretty reasonable it seems. > > picked up some for the museum and also off site displays. > > Nope, it's the Dycam 1. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon May 31 12:38:46 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: selectric consoles In-Reply-To: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Message-ID: <200405311238.46206.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 30 May 2004 19:22, Andrew K. Bressen wrote: > I think Selectrics are pretty cool; > I'd kinda like one I could use as a printer, > and if it could be a full serial tty that would > be even cooler. > > So far, I've found that IBM made the 1050 and the 2741 > selectric-based console terminals, both of which were large, heavy, > and not very reliable. IBM also made another, that a seller on ebay was selling some of a month ago when I bought one, he might have more, you might want to ask him. Here's the auction I won: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 I haven't yet had time to play with the thing, but hopefully should get a lot of time back in a bit over a week.. The terminal isn't like most "standard" terminals, in that each key sense/relay comes out via the cable on the back, which needs to be hooked into an external serial "converter" box or somthing. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon May 31 12:56:02 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040531125602.4bc582f2.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 31 May 2004 07:46:23 +0200 Jos Dreesen wrote: > > Tony Duell heeft op maandag, 31 mei 2004 om 02:28 (Europe/Zurich) het > volgende geschreven: > > Incidentally, I assume there's an EPROM in the keyboard (The 8035 > > has no > > internal ROM, the '373 sounds like an address latch). Did this > > survive? > > The '373 was indeed the addresslatch for the 8035. The eprom (I do > have an image) seems to have survived OK, since after replacement of > both IC I see the scanning signals on the driver side of the matrix, > which weren't there before. > While you've got the keyboard open would be a good time to back up the contents of that EPROM. From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 13:09:38 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: selectric consoles References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> <200405311238.46206.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <007701c4473a$7363c490$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> General electric Computer Department used selectrics on the systems they produced.... always looking for anything GE related.... ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: Re: selectric consoles > On Sunday 30 May 2004 19:22, Andrew K. Bressen wrote: > > I think Selectrics are pretty cool; > > I'd kinda like one I could use as a printer, > > and if it could be a full serial tty that would > > be even cooler. > > > > So far, I've found that IBM made the 1050 and the 2741 > > selectric-based console terminals, both of which were large, heavy, > > and not very reliable. > > IBM also made another, that a seller on ebay was selling some of a month > ago when I bought one, he might have more, you might want to ask him. > Here's the auction I won: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 > > I haven't yet had time to play with the thing, but hopefully should get > a lot of time back in a bit over a week.. > > The terminal isn't like most "standard" terminals, in that each key > sense/relay comes out via the cable on the back, which needs to be > hooked into an external serial "converter" box or somthing. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > > From schoedel at kw.igs.net Mon May 31 14:09:45 2004 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: selectric consoles In-Reply-To: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Message-ID: >I think Selectrics are pretty cool; I'd kinda like one I could use as a >printer, >and if it could be a full serial tty that would be even cooler. I have one, sold by a company called Datal (that's an L), that I know nothing about; almost certainly not in working order and not a high priority for me. Will pass to the original poster (or failing that, anyone else) for shipping+15%. -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon May 31 14:12:16 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: <20040531125602.4bc582f2.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6E3EC83B-B336-11D8-8FD3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> >> >> The '373 was indeed the addresslatch for the 8035. The eprom (I do >> have an image) seems to have survived OK, since after replacement of >> both IC I see the scanning signals on the driver side of the matrix, >> which weren't there before. >> > > While you've got the keyboard open would be a good time to back up the > contents of that EPROM. > That's what I meant with "image"...... From bob at applegate.org Sat May 29 07:59:02 2004 From: bob at applegate.org (Bob Applegate) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Anyone have a working paper tape reader? Message-ID: <000801c4457c$bab76960$3e01a8c0@Sui> I'm trying to resurrect a copy of Tom Pittman's 6502 Tiny Basic. Tom has paper tapes of the binaries, and was willing to send me one in exchange for reading the tape and sending him back some sort of machine-readable version of the contents. Not having a paper tape reader, this would be a long, dragged-out process of my manually converting the entire tape to binary by hand. Is there anyone in the US that could do this for Tom? He might be happy just to have the binary version (or the raw text) emailed to him. If you can help, please let me know. Bob From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat May 29 08:12:09 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms In-Reply-To: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040529085703.08804c20@mail.n.ml.org> Ah yes, flooding. Water and 20A 120 don't like mixing too much. One weekend back in 2002, my pointy-haired boss decided that we are going to have the mini-fridge sit DIRECTLY NEXT TO the very early 90's rack mount 80+ LB. APC 2000VA direct-wire unit (wire from wiring panel/breakers through wall, out hole, directly connected to UPS)... on the FLOOR. Brilliant, I know. The main purpose was to get drinks and snacks while working on machines on the bench directly above them (or so his reasoning went). So, since he moved it, he figured, what the hell; unplug it and let the ice thaw from the freezer part and leave its door open to drain the water to the concrete floor. On top of this, he had stopped by the offices on Saturday (closed weekends) a day later and forgot to completely close the back door which is only 8-10 feet from said UPS and fridge. I'm betting all of you could figure out what happened when a heavy rain storm hit Saturday night and the building IS slightly below ground level at the back door area (door bottom up to 1 foot was made to keep water out from flooding due to known issue in area). Luckily, only thing that happened was a circuit breaker tripped. Dried out the UPS and it worked fine. We always dared him to check the UPS wiring or the unit for charge when servicing it to ensure the batteries were good (as paranoid as we were, we checked every 6 months). You guy's stories are more interesting though as per the capability of larger loss and a lot more water. Just thought I'd contribute my little bit. BTW: anyone else have a pointy haired boss who was equally dumb in deciding to run things such as UPS's on floor level? -John Boffemmyer IV At 04:26 AM 5/29/2004, you wrote: >On May 28, 12:57, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > Flooded computer room > >We had a similar problem, thanks to our aircon, a year or so ago. Our >big aircon is one that has dehumidifies the air, then cools it, and >finally rehumidifies it if necessary so it's not too dry (which >encourages static buildup). Well, a valve jammed, and the rehumidifier >section filled up with water and overflowed. We ended up with an >inch-deep pool of water over about half the floor -- not as serious as >Mike's incident, but still a bit messy. And dirty. What alerted us to >it initially was the smell of dampness :-( > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se Sat May 29 14:08:47 2004 From: ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Hugely OT VW history. Was RE: What's the weirdest ... In-Reply-To: <1085782816.3081.64.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: Hello, > --- Jules is hereby accused of writing this about VW beetles --- > > Well they've been around since what, late 1930's? The Kombi was a bit > later, late 40's I think. Of course I have no idea when they made it to > your side of the pond... > Asking uncle Google, I got the following useful links for VW history: http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/company/history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen As the story goes, the first Beetles were made right before WW-II in 1936. At that time they weren't yet named VolksWagen but were named KdF-wagen (Kraft durch Freude - Strength through joy). After the war, the factory was comissioned by the British blah, blah, blah... go follow the link to read the whole story. The first two Beetles shipped to USA went over in 1948. Should have been fairly uncommon until 58 I guess, but I wasn't born, and not in the States anyway. Regards, /UFO From Stoebass at t-online.de Sat May 29 14:57:40 2004 From: Stoebass at t-online.de (Christian Bassow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: searching for manual Message-ID: <000801c445b7$32ede640$2ae6fea9@b8u0a2> Hi everybody, I have a Busicom 141-PF and a Busicom 121-DK. Does anybody know where I can get a copy of a manual ? Thanks and Kind regards Christian From kennj at telusplanet.net Sun May 30 18:09:06 2004 From: kennj at telusplanet.net (kenn Jorgensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON model 723 floppy drive tester/analyzer Message-ID: <40BA6992.170B6AE2@telusplanet.net> I finally got around to fixing a Brian Instruments BRIKON model 723 floppy drive tester/analyzer I purchased (broken) some time ago. It was a pretty easy problem in the power supply (two shorted capacitors). It now powers up, lights blink, and I don't know how to use it :-) Inside the unit the EPROM stickers say "P723 Apple Dual Analog 4/29/92", so I assume that means this puppy can test Apple analog drives. Just for fun I tried plugging in an old 5.24 inch IBM-PC drive, and after moving the drive select (DS) jumper on the drive to "1", I can step the head back and forth using buttons on the front of the Brian. Ohh I'm a clever monkey! There's a lot I don't know about floppy drives, and I don't understand most of the info the unit presents on it's front panel or display. What's "Radial Select" mean? Or "Binary Select?" Or "Mux Control," for that matter? What does the following pattern mean when displayed following completion of a test cycle? --. | | | Looks like a seven, but there's an extra segment lit up! BTW, the 723 reported that my old floppy drive failed the test, which is quite possible. I was willing to sacrifice that drive in the interests of my education. :-) I would really like to get my hands on a manual for the unit. My search in Google took me to this web site, where someone way back in 2002 was looking for a BRIKON 723 with the analog/alignment attachment (option R). I don't know if that's the same as the Apple Dual Analog feature my 723 has. There's nothing on the back of my unit that says "option R" has been installed. My unit has one "free" slot inside. I guess that's for an option I don't have. Could anyone out there provide me with a copy of the owner's manual? Of course I'll pay for photocopy charges, etc. Alternately, anyone out there interested in outlining how to use this puppy? Thanks so much, Kenn From oldbear at arctos.com Mon May 31 12:30:02 2004 From: oldbear at arctos.com (Will Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Ven-Tel autodial modem (c. 1982) In-Reply-To: <200405281700.i4SH0Shg025481@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040531123446.00af3650@216.230.209.13> I'm still cleaning the attic. I just found a Ven-Tel MD-212plus modem of vintage 1982 or so. This modem is unusual because it was one of the first to include auto-dialing controlled via its RS-232 interface data stream. Today, there is nothing unusual about embedded commands for dialing, but at the time, the only modems that could handle dialing were costly and bulky devices provided by Bell and requiring software support in the computer. (I believe that D C Hayes had just come out with a small 300-baud modem for the Apple II which introduced the AT-command set.) Racal-Vadic even published a "white paper" with the title: "Auto-Dialing is not Trivial" about that time. It went into detail about the various dial-tones, audible ring and busy signals, intercept recordings and other obstacles which a modem would encounter on the public switched telephone network. There is a photo of this VenTel MD-212plus 300/1200 bit/sec modem at http://www.arctos.com/misc/VenTel-MD212.jpg It's on its way to that great modem resting place unless someone wants to give it a home for the cost of postage. It would look very nice sitting on top of a PDP-8. With packing material, it weighs slightly less than 6 lbs. including the power supply (which is hard-wired to the modem.) Email me if you have any interest. Provide your zip code and preferred method of shipping (Priority Mail, Parcel Post, UPS) and I'll calculate the exact rate. First come, first served. Offer expires 6-15-2004. Void where spouse objects to any more techie junk in the house. ;) Regards, Will still cleaning the Old Bear's Attic From hansp at citem.org Mon May 31 14:38:31 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Anyone have a working paper tape reader? In-Reply-To: <000801c4457c$bab76960$3e01a8c0@Sui> References: <000801c4457c$bab76960$3e01a8c0@Sui> Message-ID: <40BB89B7.3070400@citem.org> Bob Applegate wrote: >I'm trying to resurrect a copy of Tom Pittman's 6502 Tiny Basic. Tom has paper tapes of >the binaries, and was willing to send me one in exchange for reading the tape and sending >him back some sort of machine-readable version of the contents. Not having a paper tape >reader, this would be a long, dragged-out process of my manually converting the entire >tape to binary by hand. > >Is there anyone in the US that could do this for Tom? He might be happy just to have the >binary version (or the raw text) emailed to him. > We have a working paper tape reader on our PDP-9 here in Grenoble France. I'd be happy to provide the service if no one closer can oblige. -- Hans PUFAL From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Mon May 31 14:44:46 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: NS DS8881N datasheet anyone References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> <200405311238.46206.pat@computer-refuge.org> <007701c4473a$7363c490$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <40BB8B2E.5070605@gmx.net> Hi, while hunting for DEC 8881 I come across a few (20) vacuum fluorescent display drivers DS8881N. Now I am looking for a datasheet for them. TIA Gerold From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 14:42:26 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: selectric consoles References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Message-ID: <00be01c44747$6a4c1e40$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> as I recall datel was a maker of terminal devices.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Schoedel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: Re: selectric consoles > >I think Selectrics are pretty cool; I'd kinda like one I could use as a > >printer, > >and if it could be a full serial tty that would be even cooler. > > I have one, sold by a company called Datal (that's an L), that I know > nothing about; almost certainly not in working order and not a high > priority for me. Will pass to the original poster (or failing that, anyone > else) for shipping+15%. > > -- > Kevin Schoedel > schoedel@kw.igs.net > > From vrs at msn.com Mon May 31 15:13:14 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: NS DS8881N datasheet anyone References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> <200405311238.46206.pat@computer-refuge.org><007701c4473a$7363c490$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <40BB8B2E.5070605@gmx.net> Message-ID: > Hi, > while hunting for DEC 8881 I come across a few (20) vacuum fluorescent > display drivers DS8881N. Now I am looking for a datasheet for them. There's description, and a PDF datasheet available for download at http://www.ee.und.ac.za/DataCDs/NationalSemiconductor/Docs/wcd00015/wcd01564.htm Vince From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 15:29:04 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: a crate of 10 base network cards are available. Message-ID: <013801c4474d$edb59210$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> a crate of 10 base network cards are available. various mfrs. most are new in packaging... anyone can use? trades? offers? Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From schoedel at kw.igs.net Mon May 31 15:32:08 2004 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: selectric consoles In-Reply-To: <00be01c44747$6a4c1e40$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> <00be01c44747$6a4c1e40$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: >as I recall datel was a maker of terminal devices.... Yes, Datel (not 'Datal' as I previously misread, upside-down in the dark) - marked model Thirty-21-019, Selectric-I mechanism in a box about 6" wider and deeper than a Selectric-II. -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 31 16:09:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Ven-Tel autodial modem (c. 1982) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040531123446.00af3650@216.230.209.13> References: <200405281700.i4SH0Shg025481@huey.classiccmp.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20040531123446.00af3650@216.230.209.13> Message-ID: <20040531210933.GB5879@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 01:30:02PM -0400, Will Roberts wrote: > > I'm still cleaning the attic. I just found a Ven-Tel MD-212plus > modem of vintage 1982 or so. > > This modem is unusual because it was one of the first to include > auto-dialing controlled via its RS-232 interface data stream. At one point, this was the default modem at Software Results if you were borrowing one from the company to dial in to work. I have several of these. They are pretty sturdy. > (I believe that D C Hayes had just come out with a small > 300-baud modem for the Apple II which introduced the AT-command set.) Right. Something to point out - the Ven-Tel does _not_ use the AT command set - it's been years since I used one, but ISTR pressing return a couple of times and using some kind of menu scheme. They work great with VT100s... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-May-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -73.3 F (-58.5 C) Windchill -102.6 F (-74.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.6 kts Grid 058 Barometer 664.7 mb (11208. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon May 31 16:24:49 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: a crate of 10 base network cards are available. In-Reply-To: <013801c4474d$edb59210$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> References: <013801c4474d$edb59210$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <200405312128.RAA08043@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > a crate of 10 base network cards are available. I'm not sure what this means. There are ten cards available, or there is some unspecified number of 10baseX cards (for whatever values of X), or what? > various mfrs. most are new in packaging... > anyone can use? trades? offers? What bus(ses), and what media interfaces? I'm interested in hearing about (and potentially buying or trading for) SBus, PCI, ISA, NuBus, Qbus, 9U VME, USB, and SCSI Ethernets. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 16:39:20 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: a crate of 10 base network cards are available. References: <013801c4474d$edb59210$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <200405312128.RAA08043@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <01ae01c44757$be6d56a0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> ok! sorry a better explanation... there is-- like this crate... it is about 1 foot by two feet. they are all isa. they are in packaging or plastic thingies they all came in. I had gotten them years ago and.... ( of course kick my self in the ass for not getting rid of them years ago when they were more sought after) but then again... I guess they don't make ISA only cards now? not for sale at frys anyway.... there is at least 40 of them. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 2:24 PM Subject: Re: a crate of 10 base network cards are available. > > a crate of 10 base network cards are available. > > I'm not sure what this means. There are ten cards available, or there > is some unspecified number of 10baseX cards (for whatever values of X), > or what? > > > various mfrs. most are new in packaging... > > anyone can use? trades? offers? > > What bus(ses), and what media interfaces? I'm interested in hearing > about (and potentially buying or trading for) SBus, PCI, ISA, NuBus, > Qbus, 9U VME, USB, and SCSI Ethernets. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > From webhead at theantiquecomputer.com Mon May 31 17:39:18 2004 From: webhead at theantiquecomputer.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to><00be01c44747$6a4c1e40$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <000701c44760$1c7e7aa0$6402a8c0@home> In the local Goodwill this morning, there was a large General Electric printer/terminal(?) stand out front in the weekend dropoff area. It stood about three feet high, had a keyboard, with a printer behind it and a data cassette holder in the upper right console area which also had rocker switches on it. Sorry for the bad description but I was in a rush. The thing looked in perfect condition, similar to a teletype machine I had seen once, although the keys didn't look like teletype keys. The cassette part intrigued me but I didn't have time to examine it and I completely forget what the name of the unit was. It was GE for sure. Basically if anyone has interest in rescuing it, I will head back tomorrow to fetch it. Otherwise does anyone know what it was, from my terrible description? Brian Mahoney From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 31 17:41:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: Here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5702503936 The $250 Buy It Now price is not bad. Otherwise, the start bid is $150. Good luck! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 17:46:16 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? References: <0qzn7p1m4z.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to><00be01c44747$6a4c1e40$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <000701c44760$1c7e7aa0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <01cc01c44761$155af9a0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> General Electric terminet perhaps! was it a kind of beige color? if you open it up and it is a band type printer with character fingers this is probably what it is.... I think they also made a later one that was dot matrix called a terminet 30?... foggy brain... sorry.... manuals are available out there for them, we have a set at the msueum here but none scanned online... Ge terminets and tty's were the first terminals I dealt in back in the dark ages... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: general electric terminal? > In the local Goodwill this morning, there was a large General Electric > printer/terminal(?) stand out front in the weekend dropoff area. It stood > about three feet high, had a keyboard, with a printer behind it and a data > cassette holder in the upper right console area which also had rocker > switches on it. Sorry for the bad description but I was in a rush. > The thing looked in perfect condition, similar to a teletype machine I had > seen once, although the keys didn't look like teletype keys. The cassette > part intrigued me but I didn't have time to examine it and I completely > forget what the name of the unit was. It was GE for sure. > Basically if anyone has interest in rescuing it, I will head back tomorrow > to fetch it. Otherwise does anyone know what it was, from my terrible > description? > > Brian Mahoney > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 31 17:51:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? In-Reply-To: <000701c44760$1c7e7aa0$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > In the local Goodwill this morning, there was a large General Electric > printer/terminal(?) stand out front in the weekend dropoff area. It stood > about three feet high, had a keyboard, with a printer behind it and a data > cassette holder in the upper right console area which also had rocker > switches on it. Sorry for the bad description but I was in a rush. > The thing looked in perfect condition, similar to a teletype machine I had > seen once, although the keys didn't look like teletype keys. The cassette > part intrigued me but I didn't have time to examine it and I completely > forget what the name of the unit was. It was GE for sure. > Basically if anyone has interest in rescuing it, I will head back tomorrow > to fetch it. Otherwise does anyone know what it was, from my terrible > description? It definitely sounds like something worth rescuing. Someone somewhere should want it. I'd want it if it were closer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 31 18:35:00 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms In-Reply-To: John Boffemmyer IV "Re: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms" (May 29, 9:12) References: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040529085703.08804c20@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <10406010034.ZM705@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 29, 9:12, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Ah yes, flooding. Water and 20A 120 don't like mixing too much. [...] > You guy's stories are more interesting though as per the capability of > larger loss and a lot more water. Just thought I'd contribute my little bit. We were lucky; the concrete floor slopes slightly towards the aircon and the water level didn't reach any electrical circuits. If it had been an inch or so higher, it could have shorted all the circuits. Let's see, that's 3 phases times 8 (IIRC) dual sockets, each on a 30A 240V circuit. The UPS wouldn't have helped much, its 3-phase 6 x 30A circuits terminate in sockets bolted to the same concrete floor. Of course, the UPS won't actually supply 3 x 180A, more like 3 x 48A; similarly the raw mains isn't 3 x 240A, more like 3 x 100A. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 18:58:39 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? References: Message-ID: <01f001c4476b$35115e60$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> the finger band units came as a terminet 300 and a 1200 denoting the baud rate. nice as they had fully formed characters both upper and lower case. if memory serves me correctly the 300 model A came out in late 60's early 70's you will find them in many colors.... our hp 2000 f ( that became an access system ) had one with an hp paint job and terminal number on it. Honeywell also used them as console and terminal devices both for large information systems and process control products. the only units we have now are a couple Honeywell units terminet 1200 in the white and black paint job. alas the hp unit passed with the ages... probably to the same place the 2883 disk drive did for the 2000 system. If anyone has either of these units it would be nice to at least have an example of them to display next to the hp 2000 here in the museum. to see what the 2000 system looks like and what the drive looked like ( alas the terminet is not in the pic check towards the bottom of www.smecc.org) I owe a great debt to this product line, as in my first year of business they made the money that really helped launch the company. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:51 PM Subject: Re: general electric terminal? > On Mon, 31 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > In the local Goodwill this morning, there was a large General Electric > > printer/terminal(?) stand out front in the weekend dropoff area. It stood > > about three feet high, had a keyboard, with a printer behind it and a data > > cassette holder in the upper right console area which also had rocker > > switches on it. Sorry for the bad description but I was in a rush. > > The thing looked in perfect condition, similar to a teletype machine I had > > seen once, although the keys didn't look like teletype keys. The cassette > > part intrigued me but I didn't have time to examine it and I completely > > forget what the name of the unit was. It was GE for sure. > > Basically if anyone has interest in rescuing it, I will head back tomorrow > > to fetch it. Otherwise does anyone know what it was, from my terrible > > description? > > It definitely sounds like something worth rescuing. Someone somewhere > should want it. I'd want it if it were closer. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 19:03:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms References: <10405290926.ZM28158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040529085703.08804c20@mail.n.ml.org> <10406010034.ZM705@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <01fd01c4476b$dc4e2c80$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> thankfully we never got water under ours.... we used to stash stuff there we did not want to clutter the main part of the room and arranged it so that it would "duct" the air to the equipment bays that needed it! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:35 PM Subject: Re: Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms > On May 29, 9:12, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > > Ah yes, flooding. Water and 20A 120 don't like mixing too much. > [...] > > You guy's stories are more interesting though as per the capability > of > > larger loss and a lot more water. Just thought I'd contribute my > little bit. > > We were lucky; the concrete floor slopes slightly towards the aircon > and the water level didn't reach any electrical circuits. If it had > been an inch or so higher, it could have shorted all the circuits. > Let's see, that's 3 phases times 8 (IIRC) dual sockets, each on a 30A > 240V circuit. The UPS wouldn't have helped much, its 3-phase 6 x 30A > circuits terminate in sockets bolted to the same concrete floor. Of > course, the UPS won't actually supply 3 x 180A, more like 3 x 48A; > similarly the raw mains isn't 3 x 240A, more like 3 x 100A. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From webhead at theantiquecomputer.com Mon May 31 19:36:22 2004 From: webhead at theantiquecomputer.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? References: <01f001c4476b$35115e60$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <000f01c44770$7736b600$6402a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: Re: general electric terminal? > the finger band units came as a terminet 300 and a 1200 denoting the baud > rate. nice as they had fully formed characters both upper and lower case. > if memory serves me correctly the 300 model A came out in late 60's early > 70's > > you will find them in many colors.... > > our hp 2000 f ( that became an access system ) had one with an hp paint > job and terminal number on it. > > Honeywell also used them as console and terminal devices both for large > information systems and process control products. > > the only units we have now are a couple Honeywell units terminet 1200 in the > white and black paint job. > alas the hp unit passed with the ages... probably to the same place the 2883 > disk drive did for the 2000 system. If anyone has either of these units it > would be nice to at least have an example of them to display next to the hp > 2000 here in the museum. to see what the 2000 system looks like and what > the drive looked like ( alas the terminet is not in the pic check towards > the bottom of www.smecc.org) > > I owe a great debt to this product line, as in my first year of business > they made the money that really helped launch the company. > > Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > Please check our web site at > http://www.smecc.org > to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > address: > > coury house / smecc > 5802 w palmaire ave > glendale az 85301 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:51 PM > Subject: Re: general electric terminal? > > > > On Mon, 31 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > > > In the local Goodwill this morning, there was a large General Electric > > > printer/terminal(?) stand out front in the weekend dropoff area. It > stood > > > about three feet high, had a keyboard, with a printer behind it and a > data > > > cassette holder in the upper right console area which also had rocker > > > switches on it. Sorry for the bad description but I was in a rush. > > > The thing looked in perfect condition, similar to a teletype machine I > had > > > seen once, although the keys didn't look like teletype keys. The > cassette > > > part intrigued me but I didn't have time to examine it and I completely > > > forget what the name of the unit was. It was GE for sure. > > > Basically if anyone has interest in rescuing it, I will head back > tomorrow > > > to fetch it. Otherwise does anyone know what it was, from my terrible > > > description? > > > > It definitely sounds like something worth rescuing. Someone somewhere > > should want it. I'd want it if it were closer. > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > I'll stop by tomorrow morning and see if it is still around. The thing looked large and heavy and, given my present lack of space, large and heavy things don't fit any more. I do have a shed though .... If it is reasonably priced, I'll see if it fits in my station wagon. Might talk them into a donation! (Once inside the store this morning, I did pick up a "Reach no. AA Official Indoor" baseball bat from probably the turn of the last century for 2 bucks. Just in case anyone collects baseball memorabilia. ) bm From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 20:32:20 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? References: <01f001c4476b$35115e60$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <000f01c44770$7736b600$6402a8c0@home> Message-ID: <001701c44778$482f6610$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> go for it! it is worth chasing after! if it is the 300 or 1200 the cassette works like a tty paper tape... very useful! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Re: general electric terminal? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ed sharpe" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:58 PM > Subject: Re: general electric terminal? > > > > the finger band units came as a terminet 300 and a 1200 denoting the > baud > > rate. nice as they had fully formed characters both upper and lower case. > > if memory serves me correctly the 300 model A came out in late 60's early > > 70's > > > > you will find them in many colors.... > > > > our hp 2000 f ( that became an access system ) had one with an hp paint > > job and terminal number on it. > > > > Honeywell also used them as console and terminal devices both for large > > information systems and process control products. > > > > the only units we have now are a couple Honeywell units terminet 1200 in > the > > white and black paint job. > > alas the hp unit passed with the ages... probably to the same place the > 2883 > > disk drive did for the 2000 system. If anyone has either of these units it > > would be nice to at least have an example of them to display next to the > hp > > 2000 here in the museum. to see what the 2000 system looks like and what > > the drive looked like ( alas the terminet is not in the pic check towards > > the bottom of www.smecc.org) > > > > I owe a great debt to this product line, as in my first year of > business > > they made the money that really helped launch the company. > > > > Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > > > Please check our web site at > > http://www.smecc.org > > to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > > buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > > > address: > > > > coury house / smecc > > 5802 w palmaire ave > > glendale az 85301 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:51 PM > > Subject: Re: general electric terminal? > > > > > > > On Mon, 31 May 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > > > > > In the local Goodwill this morning, there was a large General Electric > > > > printer/terminal(?) stand out front in the weekend dropoff area. It > > stood > > > > about three feet high, had a keyboard, with a printer behind it and a > > data > > > > cassette holder in the upper right console area which also had rocker > > > > switches on it. Sorry for the bad description but I was in a rush. > > > > The thing looked in perfect condition, similar to a teletype machine I > > had > > > > seen once, although the keys didn't look like teletype keys. The > > cassette > > > > part intrigued me but I didn't have time to examine it and I > completely > > > > forget what the name of the unit was. It was GE for sure. > > > > Basically if anyone has interest in rescuing it, I will head back > > tomorrow > > > > to fetch it. Otherwise does anyone know what it was, from my terrible > > > > description? > > > > > > It definitely sounds like something worth rescuing. Someone somewhere > > > should want it. I'd want it if it were closer. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > > mputers ] > > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > > > > I'll stop by tomorrow morning and see if it is still around. The thing > looked large and heavy and, given my present lack of space, large and heavy > things don't fit any more. I do have a shed though .... If it is reasonably > priced, I'll see if it fits in my station wagon. Might talk them into a > donation! > > (Once inside the store this morning, I did pick up a "Reach no. AA Official > Indoor" baseball bat from probably the turn of the last century for 2 bucks. > Just in case anyone collects baseball memorabilia. ) > > bm > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon May 31 21:21:02 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: A big AT Message-ID: Check out: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/8232.jpg It is an IBM 8232, and the biggest damn AT I have ever seen. Basically, it is a channel to ethernet box, and contains inside an IBM 7532 Industrial AT with a bunch of Bus and Tag hardware. Just what everyone needs. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon May 31 21:36:44 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:59 2005 Subject: A big AT References: Message-ID: <009601c44781$47453e10$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: A big AT > Check out: > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/8232.jpg > > It is an IBM 8232, and the biggest damn AT I have ever seen. Basically, it > is a channel to ethernet box, and contains inside an IBM 7532 Industrial > AT with a bunch of Bus and Tag hardware. Just what everyone needs. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > That sucker is huge, lookes like a cross between a computer and a refrigerator. From esharpe at uswest.net Mon May 31 21:40:21 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: A big AT References: Message-ID: <003501c44781$cba18510$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> would indeed create a hernia if you tried to move it by yourself.... is out in a functional installation Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:21 PM Subject: A big AT > Check out: > > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/8232.jpg > > It is an IBM 8232, and the biggest damn AT I have ever seen. Basically, it > is a channel to ethernet box, and contains inside an IBM 7532 Industrial > AT with a bunch of Bus and Tag hardware. Just what everyone needs. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon May 31 21:45:27 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: GE Terminet terminal Message-ID: What is being described is almost surely a Terminet - an ASCII teleprinter using a continuous rotating band with upright 'fingers' containing the individual characters - these passed in front of 72 hammers, and behind them were the ribbon and paper respectively. There were three complete sets of character fingers, thus cutting the 'latency' of the band in thirds. When the right character arrived at the correct position on the page, the opposing hammer fired and imprinted it. The fingers were easily removable allowing for alternate fonts and character sets. The two I had were fitted with the dual cassette units (used instead of paper tape, (but employing very much the same 'algosithm'), and I used them in the very early 80s with a 300 Baud Novation JCat modem, to access Compuserve and a couple of other primitive on-line services, as well as BBSes. The unit is well worth saving - you don't say where you are, but they are rare now and I'm sure someone will be very happy to make it go away for you... Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 31 21:43:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: OT: Hp JetDirect 300X help question Message-ID: Sorry for the OT but I'm stumped and the web has no answers for me (and neither do stupid HP and stupid Xerox). I've got an HP JetDirect 300X print server. I'm attaching my Xerox XD125f printer/copier to it to so that I can print from any machine on my network. For some reason, Xerox's driver will not allow printing from stations on the network other than the host. It will queue the job but when I look at the queue on the host it has errored out for some inexplicable reason. Also, when I print from the host, it loads down the computer for about 5 seconds until the job is sent to the printer. This is also annoying. So I put this print server in to hopefully accomplish two things: to allow printing from any station on my network and to not bog down my computer when I print. When I attach the printer to the print server it gets recognized by the JetDirect. However, if I press the test button on the JetDirect I do not get a test page printed out. That's one problem, and probably the one to figure out for the rest of this setup to work. If I setup a network printer port on a computer and then try to print to that port, it tries to queue up the job but then fails. I don't know if the JetDirect is not getting the job or if it is failing the job because it can't dump the job to the printer. I've done everything I can think of with the JetDirect. I've updated it's flash memory to the latest BIOS; I've checked all its settings and am able to connect to its web interface and all that. The one thing it really lacks is any sort of diagnostics to help figure out these problems, and stupid HPs website won't allow any sort of support questions to get asked about this product. So my only guess at this point is that the Xerox is one of those stupid WinPrinters that requires a windows box to print from. I don't know for sure. Xerox's manual is a fucking joke. So is Xerox at this point for that matter. Anyone have any clues to share? Please respond to private e-mail. THANKS! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 31 21:58:54 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: DZ11 or DH11 Message-ID: I have my PDP 11/34 up and running and booting in RT-11 from RL02 packs. I would like to do a few upgrades to it. I have two RK05J drives and would like to start troubleshooting them, but I need the RK11 controller in order to hook the drives up to my PDP 11/34 system. I also would like the ability to attach more than one terminal, so I'm looking for a DZ11 or (I think) DH11 multiplexer modules. Right now I have a DL11-W. Does anyone here on this list have any RK11, DZ11, or DH11 that they would like to part with? Thanks, Ashley From nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com Mon May 31 21:56:38 2004 From: nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com (nospam212-classiccmp@yahoo.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: Pdp-11/60 and HP 9836 available in Houston Message-ID: <20040601025638.93243.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> I have a PDP-11/60 available in Houston TX along with an HP 9836. If interested contact me off list. Looking to see if anyone is interested in them whole before parting it out. Seems most people just want bits and pieces. David ----- "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams dlwfanservice@sbcglobal.com From wacarder at usit.net Mon May 31 22:33:32 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: Pdp-11/60 and HP 9836 available in Houston In-Reply-To: <20040601025638.93243.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, I'm trying to send you an email, but it keeps getting returned. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of nospam212-classiccmp@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Pdp-11/60 and HP 9836 available in Houston I have a PDP-11/60 available in Houston TX along with an HP 9836. If interested contact me off list. Looking to see if anyone is interested in them whole before parting it out. Seems most people just want bits and pieces. David ----- "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams dlwfanservice@sbcglobal.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon May 31 22:54:39 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: Pdp-11/60 and HP 9836 available in Houston In-Reply-To: References: <20040601025638.93243.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040601035439.GA13516@bos7.spole.gov> David Williams writes: > I have a PDP-11/60 available in Houston TX along with an HP 9836. If > interested contact me off list. Looking to see if anyone is interested in > them whole before parting it out. Seems most people just want bits and > pieces. If I were home, I'd give serious consideration to a road trip (from Ohio). That's one of the models I've always thought was kinda cool, due to the writable control store. I heard a story once that one of the DEC engineers wrote PDP-8-instruction-set microcode for it as an exercise. Internal lore held that it was the fastest PDP-8 ever made (dunno if it ran more than FOCAL and paper-tape programs, though - interfacing devices would be a bit of a hassle, I'd expect). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Jun-2004 03:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82.3 F (-63.5 C) Windchill -120.2 F (-84.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.9 kts Grid 102 Barometer 664.2 mb (11229. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From spectre at floodgap.com Mon May 31 23:10:55 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: A big AT In-Reply-To: from William Donzelli at "May 31, 4 10:21:02 pm" Message-ID: <200406010410.VAA12478@floodgap.com> > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/8232.jpg > It is an IBM 8232, and the biggest damn AT I have ever seen. THAT's a 286?! -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat. -------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Mon May 31 23:47:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:00 2005 Subject: general electric terminal? In-Reply-To: <001701c44778$482f6610$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > go for it! it is worth chasing after! if it is the 300 or 1200 the > cassette works like a tty paper tape... very useful! Brian, Does it look anything like this? http://siconic.com/ebay/ASR733-1.jpg P.S. Please trim replies people!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dlwfanservice at sbcglobal.net Mon May 31 16:56:26 2004 From: dlwfanservice at sbcglobal.net (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:02 2005 Subject: Pdp-11/60 and HP 9836 available in Houston Message-ID: <20040531215626.48019.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> I have a PDP-11/60 available in Houston TX along with an HP 9836. If interested contact me off list. David From pzachary at sasquatch.com Mon May 31 18:32:55 2004 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:02 2005 Subject: Data I/O device pinout codes In-Reply-To: <200405282157.i4SLv2Js012595@spies.com> References: <200405282157.i4SLv2Js012595@spies.com> Message-ID: <04053116325504.01000@localhost.localdomain> I have a unipack2, so this did the trick. thanks much, now to see if it works... Pavl_ On Friday 28 May 2004 02:57 pm, you wrote: > "29B" is the base programmer, you need to know what > programming adapter you have. Unipak 2 or 2B is the > most common but doesn't support some of the older > parts. > > Select codes can be found at http://www.geocities.com/jkh9081/dataIO/ > or on Data I/O's ftp site > ftp://ftp.dataio.com/device_lists/_archive/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 31 13:47:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:46:06 2005 Subject: Exar 22-908-03 anyone ? In-Reply-To: from "Jos Dreesen" at May 31, 4 07:46:23 am Message-ID: > > > Tony Duell heeft op maandag, 31 mei 2004 om 02:28 (Europe/Zurich) het > volgende geschreven: > >> It took out the 8035, a 74ls373 and, much worse, an unknown to me Exar > >> IC 22-908-03, datecode 1983 > > > > How many pins does this have? > > It is a 20 pin IC and it sits at the receiving end of the keyboard > matrix, the other side of the matrix is driven by two 74138. That's it, then. An octal latching sense amplifier IIRC. > > > > > THis sounds a lot like one of the 2 semi-custom ICs used with a > > Keytronics capacitive keyboard. I've seen 22-908-3B and 22-950-3B used > > in > > the PERQ 2 series and elsewhere. They have 20 pins each. The former is > > the (latching) sense amplifier between the 8 keyboard row lines and an > > 8 > > bit input on the microcontroller. > > It seems to be the exact same IC. The keyboard is indeed a Keytronics. OK, at least we've identified it! > > > > You might be able to get a replacement for these from another > > Keytronics > > keyboard (e.g. a PC one). > I'l start looking around.. > > > > > > I should be able to find pinouts for the PERQ keyboard ICs. > I was hoping to kludge a replacement with some TTL's, but this might be > difficult with a capacitive coupled keyboard. It's more of a linear chip, in that it picks up the pulses from the capacitive matrix. I have seen one such keyboard that was scanned in both directions (yours isn't) and which used a 4051 analogue mux to scan the row lines, the output of which was fed into a Motorola (I think) chip designed as an FM radio IF amplifier (!). Needless to say making 8 such amplifiers would be impractical for you. I would start raiding old keyboards. I'd rather not raid one from an old PERQ keyboard, though. -tony