From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 1 09:02:32 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk In-Reply-To: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040301085928.041d80e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Tim, That appears to be a fairly common disk pack as used in drives such as an DEC RK05 and similar. There were a number of drive manufactures who used that style of disk pack. The number of notches (sector markers) in the bottom metal hub ring will give a better idea of what machine the pack was likely used with. Also, if there is a density marking, that would also help. --tom At 11:09 PM 2/29/2004 -0500, you wrote: > I picked this disk up the other day knowing almost nothing about >mainframe storage methods. I've spent hours upon hours trying to figure >out what exactly this is but the closest thing I can get to it is an >RL02 removable cartridge disk, but it's not (I think)! I don't see how >the same drive could read these since the holes are so much different, >but it's the same general idea. > > I'm not sending attachments, I put them on a >site for you to look at, the url is >http://www.spiritsphere.com/14inchdisk.html , >any and all information you could give me about this disk would be >greatly appreciated, I'm still in the dark about it, and have found very >little reference at all to CDC ever making a cartridge like this. >Thank you! > > >Best Wishes :) >Tim From lcourtney at mvista.com Mon Mar 1 09:28:25 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk In-Reply-To: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: Tim, Interesting disk. Do you have any photos with a ruler alongside to show the dimensions? Lee C. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Neko > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 8:10 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Strange Old Disk > > > I picked this disk up the other day knowing almost nothing about > mainframe storage methods. I've spent hours upon hours trying to figure > out what exactly this is but the closest thing I can get to it is an > RL02 removable cartridge disk, but it's not (I think)! I don't see how > the same drive could read these since the holes are so much different, > but it's the same general idea. > > I'm not sending attachments, I put them on a > site for you to look at, the url is > http://www.spiritsphere.com/14inchdisk.html , > any and all information you could give me about this disk would be > greatly appreciated, I'm still in the dark about it, and have found very > little reference at all to CDC ever making a cartridge like this. > Thank you! > > > Best Wishes :) > Tim From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 1 09:29:22 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > OK, since we're in the subject area and a lot of knowledgeable folks seem to > be lurking... does anyone have any recommendations/picks/pans for IP-based > PBXen? I've been looking at this http://www.altigen.com/. --Patrick I use Cisco Callmanager. Then again, that is what I do for a living, so I guess my stuff doesn't count ;) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Mon Mar 1 09:36:37 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040301085928.041d80e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <40435885.5070206@gmx.net> Tom Uban wrote: > That appears to be a fairly common disk pack as used in drives such as > an DEC RK05 and similar. It definitely isn't similar to any RK05 disk pack I ever saw. But there are a lot of non RK05 14" disk drives. > There were a number of drive manufactures who > used that style of disk pack. The number of notches (sector markers) in > the bottom metal hub ring will give a better idea of what machine the > pack was likely used with. The RK05 packs are available with 12 (for pdp11) and 16 (for pdp8) sectors (13 or 17 notches). Just my 2 cents Gerold From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 1 09:32:36 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk In-Reply-To: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> References: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <40435794.7000104@atarimuseum.com> Looks like an DecPack RK05 just a different color. Curt Neko wrote: > I picked this disk up the other day knowing almost nothing about >mainframe storage methods. I've spent hours upon hours trying to figure >out what exactly this is but the closest thing I can get to it is an >RL02 removable cartridge disk, but it's not (I think)! I don't see how >the same drive could read these since the holes are so much different, >but it's the same general idea. > > I'm not sending attachments, I put them on a >site for you to look at, the url is http://www.spiritsphere.com/14inchdisk.html , >any and all information you could give me about this disk would be >greatly appreciated, I'm still in the dark about it, and have found very >little reference at all to CDC ever making a cartridge like this. >Thank you! > > >Best Wishes :) >Tim > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Mon Mar 1 09:34:08 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Elektor and OSI's OS-65D (was OHIO-DOS) Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48E6@inetmail.atlantissi.com> As the owner of a modified and still-working OSI Superboard 2 running under OS-65D 3.3, I may have a few insights about the Elektor link to OS-65D: - I had owned my machine for around 5 years (that would make it 1985) when a friend showed me the two-part Elektor article of a floppy-disk interface for the ongoing "Junior Computer" series. Using the schematics, I hand-wired (anyone else remember Vector's "Pencil Wiring" with solder-through insulation?) a disk interface for my Superboard. - The Elektor article "adopted" OS-65D because OSI sold the DOS as a stand-alone product, complete with utilities for customizing disks, developing code in BASIC and Assembler, and capable of running serial or memory-mapped user I/O with the change of a byte in DOS. It sounds like the Elektor authors went forward and used OD-65D for later projects. - By 1985, MA/COM had renamed OSI to ISOTRON during the slow- and shut-down of manufacturing - they stopped buying masked ROMs, and made Superboards and C1Ps patched to use 2716 EPROMs instead - but were still selling the Disk OS. When I telephone-ordered a copy and asked for "OS-65D V. 3.3 for a C1P", a fellow worker figured I was some sort of spy speaking code! Fortunately, the folks at the factory knew what I was talking about. The documentation binder bears the name ISOTRON on its cover. - Like the Elektor authors, I patched my OS-65D, for an 80x24 video card in my system. I had written extensions into a copy of the OSI Monitor ROM: I was a little peeved when OS-65D loaded, ignored the redirected video, and brought in its own drivers for the original 24x24 screen... I was sooo glad I maintained back-compatibility. I still have the original OSI disks and docs: there are 5 disks with all sorts of utilities (mostly in BASIC), the binder for the OS and separate manuals for the "Assembler/Editor and Extended Monitor" and disk BASIC. The handiest thing (and most well-worn!) is the little fold-out card listing DOS commands, memory locations and error code descriptions. I'm a little puzzled at the reference to OS-65D V3.2... Version 3.3 was the "full" version, and the single-floppy reduced version was 3.1: perhaps someone patched a version 3.1 disk for their own project, and just incremented the number? Bob Maxwell --- Original Message --- > > I'm looking for information on the OHIO-DOS system. > > Has anyone some sources, programs or historic info > > on this OS for the 6502? > > > > Right now I'm rebuilding an 65816 system (EC65K) which > > was published in 1986 by Elektuur/Elektor and was running > > OHIO DOS 65D V3.2. > > Ohio Scientific Instruments (OSI) had a 6502 OS in the late > 1970's and early 1980's called OS-65D. They were bought by > MA/COM (sometimes mistyped as MA-COM) who carried on for a > couple of years. I don't know whether they licensed it to > any other vendors, but you might Google for OS-65D. Also, > OS-65U was their multi user OS. I'm a "fan" of OSI, if it > turns out that this is the OSI OS, I would be interested to > know the story of Elektuur/Elektor and how the old (and to > be honest, rather crude) OS was being used in 1986. > > Bill Sudbrink > From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 1 09:37:00 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: digital "test connectors" In-Reply-To: <404220EB.8070404@tds.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Jon Auringer wrote: > Hello again, > > I have the three following digital test connectors. All in good > condition. I really have no idea what they are worth and really don't > want to take the time/effort to ebay/VCM them. Any offers? Sounds good... still have em? --f From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 1 09:40:01 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: CS-600HD cassette tapes Message-ID: I've got a box of 10- CS-600HD cassette tapes (Maxell brand). They are for a cassette tape backup drive. I bought them from another list member only to find that the specs I found on my drive neglected to point out that of the list of tapes it's compatible with, it can only WRITE to one particular tape, and this one ain't it. So I'm about to toss them in the trash. If anyone wants them, speak now or forever hold your piece (sic. for the gun toting people on this list :-) I'll let them sit on my desk until Friday the 6th. After that, they hit the trash. The box weighs about 2 lbs, shipped from 07450 (figure about $6.00 to do priority mail to the west coast, less if you are closer to the east). Covering postage is all I ask, although if you want to give me more, I won't complain. -chris From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 1 09:42:53 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk In-Reply-To: References: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040301093724.04380210@mail.ubanproductions.com> Tim & Lee, I'm sorry about my previous post. I didn't notice that the pictures had larger versions if I clicked on them. That is not an RK05 style pack as I originally thought. Also, if the hand in the one picture is any measure of scale, the pack looks like it may be smaller than a normal 14" platter. A little google searching turns up the model number and implies that it is compatible with a Wang 2280 disk pack if that is any help. --tom At 07:28 AM 3/1/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Tim, > >Interesting disk. Do you have any photos with a ruler alongside to show the >dimensions? > >Lee C. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Neko > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 8:10 PM > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Strange Old Disk > > > > > > I picked this disk up the other day knowing almost nothing about > > mainframe storage methods. I've spent hours upon hours trying to figure > > out what exactly this is but the closest thing I can get to it is an > > RL02 removable cartridge disk, but it's not (I think)! I don't see how > > the same drive could read these since the holes are so much different, > > but it's the same general idea. > > > > I'm not sending attachments, I put them on a > > site for you to look at, the url is > > http://www.spiritsphere.com/14inchdisk.html , > > any and all information you could give me about this disk would be > > greatly appreciated, I'm still in the dark about it, and have found very > > little reference at all to CDC ever making a cartridge like this. > > Thank you! > > > > > > Best Wishes :) > > Tim From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 1 11:58:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040301055217.30953.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > LOL... Somehow this doesn't supprise me... also Sellam's website > "vintage.org" lists the Compaq Portable II as a 286 machine... but the Where did you see that? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 1 14:14:43 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <20040301055937.5980.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040301055937.5980.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040301121249.F96026@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey ya'll I just located an old Apple IIc and was trying to figure out > it's power supply... anyone know where I can find pinouts for this > computer's power supply port? It's the male side of a 7 pin plug. > Thanks. DO NOT USE ANYTHING BUT THE FACTORY ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY. If you use anything else, then you will be writing to this list about the machine no longer working. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 1 14:35:43 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040301055217.30953.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040301055217.30953.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040301122641.I96026@newshell.lmi.net> > > install a 3.5" drive. The Compaq uses Torx head screws throughout. If > > you don't have Torx bits, then LEAVE IT ON THE SHELF UNTIL YOU DO! (I > > repaired a Portable on a picnic table in Hawaii using Vise-Grips 5WR, > > and do NOT recommend it!) On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Too late... I used needle nose and a couple different hex type > drivers... and one mini flat-head (glasses repair type)... and a > phillips. Worked pretty well... except for one screw that refused to > budge... ended up drilling the damn thing. Get yourself some Torx bits before you destroy the rest of it. such as: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3278277991 On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Where would I find Compaq Dos? You don't. You find Compaq MS-DOS by not erasing it on a machine that has it, or by being on good terms with a collector. > > Absolutely. The Compaq uses Torx head screws throughout. > > If you don't have Torx bits, then LEAVE IT ON THE SHELF UNTIL YOU DO! On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Again...oops... LOL Get yourself some Torx bits before you destroy the rest of it. such as: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3278277991 > > > Can this be done or am I, for all intensive (S.I.C.) purposes, screwed? > > Yes. > What the heck's that supposed to mean? That YES, it can be done, or you are, for all intents and purposes, screwed. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 1 14:41:33 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040301055449.75807.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040301055449.75807.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040301123703.X96026@newshell.lmi.net> > Add a 3.5" drive to the Compaq. > The Portable and Portable 286 have enough room above the boards > to cut a hole to mount a 3.5" drive! On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Does the bios of the Compaq support 3.5" drives? well enough to use them on every machine that they have ever made > If it does then I'll start jerryrigging the power wires. If you do it wrong, you will cause serious damage commercial adapters are readily available (Roger's, etc.) > The IDC cable should work as is. If you are referring to the FDC cable, the Compaq factory cable for that model has a card-edge connector at the drive end (for 5.25" drives); you need a dual row header (for 3.5" drives) From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 1 14:48:37 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Message-ID: >DO NOT USE ANYTHING BUT THE FACTORY ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY. >If you use anything else, then you will be writing to this >list about the machine no longer working. That sounds like the voice of experience. Is there a particular reason someone can't roll their own power supply? Did Apple do something funky with it that isn't easily determined? (Gee, 'cause that would be SOOO unlike Apple to do, wouldn't it!). Being an Apple fan, I'm just curious for details. -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 1 15:03:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040301125852.I96026@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, chris wrote: > >DO NOT USE ANYTHING BUT THE FACTORY ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY. > >If you use anything else, then you will be writing to this > >list about the machine no longer working. > That sounds like the voice of experience. > Is there a particular reason someone can't roll their own power supply? IFF they have a thorough understanding of the interrelationship of Volts and Amps. Anybody who has destroyed equipment with the wrong power supply should practice on something more replaceable. From lists at microvax.org Mon Mar 1 15:37:37 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: [VAX] KZQSA deaded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403012135.57977.lists@microvax.org> Hi guys I've aquired a KZQSA through my dealer. I've been through CONFIGURE and set it up correctly for my system - apparently it only needs to sit at the default base and csr, and it is the only device in the memory map according to SHOW QBUS. I know the slot's ok as a KFQSA is happy to sit there. When I boot my 4000/200 (KA660) with it in, the boot output looks like this: KA660-A V3.7, VMB 2.12 Performing normal system tests. 95..94..93..92..91..90..89..88..87..86..85..84..83..82..81..80.. 79..78..77..76..75..74..73..72..71..70..69..68..67..66..65..64.. 63..62..61..60..59..58..57..56..55..54..53..52..51..50..49..48.. 47..46..45..44..43..42..41..40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32.. 31..30..29..28..27..26..25..24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16.. 15..14..13..12..11..10..09..08..07..06..05.. ?86 2 0A FF 0000 0000 00 ; SUBTEST_86_0A, DE_QZA_DMA.LIS P1=200002C0 P2=00000000 P3=30040000 P4=00000000 P5=00000000 P6=00000000 P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=00000000 P10=00000000 r0=00000054 r1=200001BF r2=00000000 r3=20140000 r4=200560E8 r5=20056124 r6=20063ACB r7=200002C0 r8=00000008 EPC=00000000 04..03.. Normal operation not possible. >>> ...with the FP LED stopped at "7". I've tried it as a stripped-bare system with CPU, one 8-meg memory board and the KZQSA, too. Same result. Be my KZQSA shagged, or merely cack-handedly set up? cheers alex/melt From dittman at dittman.net Mon Mar 1 15:37:15 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: [VAX] KZQSA deaded? In-Reply-To: <200403012135.57977.lists@microvax.org> from "meltie" at Mar 01, 2004 09:37:37 PM Message-ID: <20040301213715.C25F37F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > KA660-A V3.7, VMB 2.12 > Performing normal system tests. > 95..94..93..92..91..90..89..88..87..86..85..84..83..82..81..80.. > 79..78..77..76..75..74..73..72..71..70..69..68..67..66..65..64.. > 63..62..61..60..59..58..57..56..55..54..53..52..51..50..49..48.. > 47..46..45..44..43..42..41..40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32.. > 31..30..29..28..27..26..25..24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16.. > 15..14..13..12..11..10..09..08..07..06..05.. > > ?86 2 0A FF 0000 0000 00 ; SUBTEST_86_0A, DE_QZA_DMA.LIS > > P1=200002C0 P2=00000000 P3=30040000 P4=00000000 P5=00000000 > P6=00000000 P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=00000000 P10=00000000 > r0=00000054 r1=200001BF r2=00000000 r3=20140000 r4=200560E8 > r5=20056124 r6=20063ACB r7=200002C0 r8=00000008 EPC=00000000 > 04..03.. > Normal operation not possible. > > >>> This looks like you don't have any terminators on the card. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 1 16:17:30 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: [VAX] KZQSA deaded? In-Reply-To: <20040301213715.C25F37F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <008b01c3ffda$fcdd2290$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > P1=200002C0 P2=00000000 P3=30040000 P4=00000000 P5=00000000 > > P6=00000000 P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=00000000 P10=00000000 > > r0=00000054 r1=200001BF r2=00000000 r3=20140000 r4=200560E8 > > r5=20056124 r6=20063ACB r7=200002C0 r8=00000008 EPC=00000000 > > 04..03.. Normal operation not possible. > > > > >>> > > This looks like you don't have any terminators on the card. Agreed. I had a VAX 4000-500 that was similarly upset by a KZQSA that was missing a terminator on the unused connector. Quite *why* the KZQSA code in the console behaves this way, I do not know. I've booted plenty of MicroVAX 3100s with missing terminators on the SCSI bus and never had a problem. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 1 17:16:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <20040301121249.F96026@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 1, 4 12:14:43 pm Message-ID: > > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > > Hey ya'll I just located an old Apple IIc and was trying to figure out > > it's power supply... anyone know where I can find pinouts for this > > computer's power supply port? It's the male side of a 7 pin plug. > > Thanks. > > DO NOT USE ANYTHING BUT THE FACTORY ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY. > If you use anything else, then you will be writing to this > list about the machine no longer working. I can well beleive the PSU is regulated (probably some of +/-5V, +/-12V), but what else is special about it? What can't another regulated PSU be used without damage? -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Mar 1 18:14:57 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: PING Zane Healy Message-ID: Yo Zane: I just got some rather bizarre e-mail from you personally, which I don't think you sent - but *something* posing as you did.. Best look to your System, and the Security thereof... Email me off list for a description... It was amusing, in a surreal sort of way. ;} Cheers John From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 1 18:46:20 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: PING Zane Healy In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Mar 01, 2004 07:14:57 PM Message-ID: <200403020046.i220kK6q023940@onyx.spiritone.com> > Yo Zane: I just got some rather bizarre e-mail from you personally, > which I don't think you sent - but *something* posing as you did.. > > Best look to your System, and the Security thereof... My guess is someone on the list with both of us in their address book has a virus. I only use 'elm' on Unix and 'Eudora' on Mac OS X for email with this account. Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 1 20:55:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm considering buying a copy and I'd like to talk to anyone that's used it to scan documents. I have questions about what features are in the different versions and what scanner interfaces are supported in the different versions. Joe From pietstan at rogers.com Mon Mar 1 20:53:27 2004 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: DEC RW 500 Message-ID: <4043F727.90608@rogers.com> I've got a DEC RW500 optical disk libray that I'm confused about.... The machine powers up, passes self tests, loads and unloads media, but I can't get the scsi controller in my peecee to recognize any media in it. I've tried the original drive that came in the box, as well as an HP versioned drive, as well as DEC labelled media, HP labelled media, and some other brands. It seems like the drive starts to spin the media, but it stops after a few seconds.... Is there a trick to this, or do I have a couple of dead drives? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 1 21:58:42 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: ryan-McFarland BASIC? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040301225842.00985250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I got two boxs of old Intel computer manuals that a friend of mine dug up in Vermont. In one of the manuals are some brochures for Ryan-McFarland BASIC. I've never heard of RM BASIC for any system before. Anybody know anything about it? Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 1 22:04:05 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Mar 01, 2004 09:55:50 PM Message-ID: <200403020404.i22445jw029114@onyx.spiritone.com> > I'm considering buying a copy and I'd like to talk to anyone that's used > it to scan documents. I have questions about what features are in the > different versions and what scanner interfaces are supported in the > different versions. > > Joe I have a copy of V5, but need to upgrade to V6 as I lost the ability to scan to Acrobat when I upgraded to Mac OS X (Acrobat V5 didn't support the feature under Mac OS X). At the time I was using it, I was using it with an ancient SCSI scanner. As long as you've got drivers for the OS you're running it on, it should just work (I think it uses the TWAIN drivers, IIRC). I really liked it, and I know my Mom loves it for Geneology (except half the time the people on the receiving end can't figure out how to open an Acrobat file!?!?!?!). Zane From cbajpai at comcast.net Mon Mar 1 22:07:43 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: ryan-McFarland BASIC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040301225842.00985250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000201c4000b$ea40c4d0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Radio Shack used sell Ryan-McFarland BASIC/COBOL/Fortran? compilers for the TRS-80 Model II/12/16. Outside of Radio Shack, they may have been a small player in the CP/M compiler space. COBOL was their most successful product. Ryan-McFard still exists (kind of) as Liant Corp. http://www.liant.com/ A google search turns up some interesting history: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Ryan+McFarlan d+compilers -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:59 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: ryan-McFarland BASIC? Today I got two boxs of old Intel computer manuals that a friend of mine dug up in Vermont. In one of the manuals are some brochures for Ryan-McFarland BASIC. I've never heard of RM BASIC for any system before. Anybody know anything about it? Joe From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 1 23:32:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:51 2005 Subject: Looking for various manuals ($$$) Message-ID: Ok, new bounties. I'm offering $20 each for the below manuals. - Switchback User Guide, Apex PC Solutions, 1995 - 8001/ KVM Users Guide, Apex PC Solutions, Date Unknown - Reachout: Remote Conrol for Windows and DOS, User Guide Version 2.1, Ocean Isle Software, Revised July 2, 1992 - Addendum I to User's Manual for MasterNet Version 2.00, Rose Electronics, Revision A, Date Unknown - General Instrument 2750R Satellite Receiver User's Guide 2700 Series, Publication No 72089-1, Rev. C, Apr. 1990 If you've got these then please contact me in private e-mail. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Mar 1 23:39:39 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: PING Zane Healy In-Reply-To: <200403020046.i220kK6q023940@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Quoth Zane H. Healy, who quoth another: > > Yo Zane: I just got some rather bizarre e-mail from you personally, > > which I don't think you sent - but *something* posing as you did.. > > > > Best look to your System, and the Security thereof... > > My guess is someone on the list with both of us in their address book has a > virus. I only use 'elm' on Unix and 'Eudora' on Mac OS X for email with > this account. Another possibility is that classiccmp's web-archive of past posts may have been scanned for addresses. I had the same thing happen a while back with the Tolkien Sarcasm Page (http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc), and began getting large quantities of junk mail listed as coming from other contributors (who, in turn, got junk mail purporting to be from me). When I started getting mail from my old, long-dead Netcom shell account, I knew it was suspicious. :) I altered all the e-mail addresses on that site to make them less machine-harvestable. It seems to have helped. Whether that's something the classiccmp website needs to do or not is a different question, though. -O.- From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 2 02:45:53 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: PING Zane Healy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Another possibility is that classiccmp's web-archive of past posts may >have been scanned for addresses. I had the same thing happen a while back The message in question is apparently from someone that has the WORM_BAGLE.G virus. Like I'd originally suggested, it looks like someone on the list has a virus. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From asholz at topinform.de Mon Mar 1 09:20:55 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk In-Reply-To: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> References: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <404354D7.7050701@topinform.com> Neko wrote: I think, those disks have been used e.g. in CDC 9448 Phoenix Cartridge drives. - Andreas From john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 1 18:32:04 2004 From: john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Advert alert - HP 8451A including rare 98155A keyboard Message-ID: Hi, I came across the following advert: http://www.irjohnston.com/HP_spectrophotometer.html for a HP 8451A Spectrophotometer which includes the rare 98155A keyboard. This machine is based on the HP-85A / 85B (or both!) and the ad has some nice photos of the complete set up, including the keyboard which HP-9915A owners seem to be desperate to get their hands on. This looks like an expensive way of buying a keyboard though.... BTW the photos are dated October 2003 so this may have sold by now. Perhaps suppliers of 8451As might have a spare keyboard from a dead unit knocking around, I would not like to ask all the 100's of suppliers of surplus lab equipment though! Regards, John From Les.Coombes at csplc.com Mon Mar 1 11:36:03 2004 From: Les.Coombes at csplc.com (Les.Coombes@csplc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: STR LINK Message-ID: Hi, I picked up part of a thread about a STR-LINK 11 by Jack Gershon I am trying to find out how the system hand shaking, protocol etc works ....... any ideas or info ? Regards Les ************************************************************************************** This e-mail is confidential and may contain privileged information. If you are not the addressee or if you have received the e-mail in error, it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information which it contains. Under these circumstances, please notify us immediately by returning this mail to 'mailerror@csplc.com' and deleting this e-mail from your system. Any views expressed by an individual within this e-mail do not necessarily reflect the views of Cadbury Schweppes Plc or its subsidiaries. Cadbury Schweppes Plc will not be bound by any agreement entered into as a result of this email, unless its intention is clearly evidenced in the body of the email. Whilst we have taken reasonable steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are free from viruses, recipients are advised to subject this mail to their own virus checking, in keeping with good computing practice. Please note that email received by Cadbury Schweppes Plc or its subsidiaries may be monitored in accordance with the prevailing law in the United Kingdom. ************************************************************************************** From meltie at microvax.org Mon Mar 1 17:36:53 2004 From: meltie at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [VAX] KFQSA deaded Message-ID: <200403012336.53151.meltie@microvax.org> >> > P1=200002C0 P2=00000000 P3=30040000 P4=00000000 P5=00000000 >> > P6=00000000 P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=00000000 P10=00000000 >> > r0=00000054 r1=200001BF r2=00000000 r3=20140000 r4=200560E8 >> > r5=20056124 r6=20063ACB r7=200002C0 r8=00000008 EPC=00000000 >> > 04..03.. Normal operation not possible. >> > >> > >>> >> >> This looks like you don't have any terminators on the card. Yep, it's a naked card at the moment. > Quite *why* the KZQSA code in the console behaves this way, > I do not know. I've booted plenty of MicroVAX 3100s with > missing terminators on the SCSI bus and never had a problem. Tell me about it - "normal operation is not possible"? Well, no, because you've gone and halt'ed the CPU because you're so self-important. I don't *need* the SCSI bus operational to bring up the CPU and boot varios OSes. Silly firmware. Slapped wrist. Thanks guys :) alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 2 03:48:58 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey y'all... I need some help. I recently acquired a Compaq Portable(ye right... at 35LBS no one is crazy enough to carry this machine around) II... with a hard drive and a 5.25 floppy disk drive. The hard drive apparently has MSDOS 3.2 and some Novell application. When booted up it first checks the memory then it checks active partions... then it starts going in some kinda loop looking for a file server that isn't there. I don't have any other 5.25 floppy drives so I am unable to create disks to transfer files to this box. I was wondering if it was possible to connect the floppy drive to my linux box and copy the files to the disk(s) from there and retransfer the drive to the compaq to use. Problem is that the Linux box is an RH9 platform on a PII (686) system. Would RH9 even have the needed drivers for a drive this ancient? Can this be done or am I, for all intensive purposes, screwed? Linux should have no problems writing to 5.25" floppy drives, or old hard disks, assuming that the "driving" hardware is still working. Check out the kit at http://crashrecovery.org/ to create a small set of diskettes to boot the box with, and install a working Linux on it. Then, the rest can be done over its network connection (it has one, since they did Novell stuff with it...) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 2 03:57:09 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I'm considering buying a copy and I'd like to talk to anyone that's used > it to scan documents. I have questions about what features are in the > different versions and what scanner interfaces are supported in the > different versions. Yes, I use it every day... not to scan (although I sometimes do), but I *do* use it to convert documents of sorts to PDF, and that has been my personal killer app :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Mar 2 03:21:57 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040302102157.0474414d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:55:50 -0500 "Joe R." wrote: > I'm considering buying a copy and I'd like to talk to anyone that's > used > it to scan documents. If Unix is an alternative: SANE (or e.g. Impressario on IRIX) + ImageMagic + TIFF-Tools + Ghostscript + probably GIMP + a bit of shell scripting. I used this combination in the past to generate PDFs from scaned manuals. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Mar 2 05:26:43 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <0HTY0003C54XLG@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Why don't you just download it? They have a Try-before-you-buy version that is valid for 30-days. Non-restricted Professional Version too... Check it out. www.adobe.com Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:56 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? I'm considering buying a copy and I'd like to talk to anyone that's used it to scan documents. I have questions about what features are in the different versions and what scanner interfaces are supported in the different versions. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 2 06:26:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: ryan-McFarland BASIC? In-Reply-To: <000201c4000b$ea40c4d0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> References: <3.0.6.32.20040301225842.00985250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040302072624.0085f3d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:07 PM 3/1/04 -0500, Chandra wrote: >Radio Shack used sell Ryan-McFarland BASIC/COBOL/Fortran? compilers for >the TRS-80 Model II/12/16. Outside of Radio Shack, they may have been a >small player in the CP/M compiler space. COBOL was their most >successful product. I've seen RM Cobol for the PC a number of times. In fact, I recently found a complete set of docs, orginal box, notes, etc but missing the disks. IBM's "Professional Fortran" for the PC was also written by RM. But this is the first time I've heard of RM BASIC. > > Ryan-McFard still exists (kind of) as Liant Corp. > >http://www.liant.com/ > >A google search turns up some interesting history: > >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Ryan+McFarlan >d+compilers Thanks for the URLs. Joe > > >-Chandra > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:59 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: ryan-McFarland BASIC? > > Today I got two boxs of old Intel computer manuals that a friend of >mine >dug up in Vermont. In one of the manuals are some brochures for >Ryan-McFarland BASIC. I've never heard of RM BASIC for any system >before. >Anybody know anything about it? > > Joe > > From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Mar 2 07:18:51 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Looking for various manuals ($$$) Message-ID: <040302081851.329@splab.cas.neu.edu> All I've got is Reachout Pro, version 4.1, sorry. Joe Heck From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Mar 2 08:19:20 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: ryan-McFarland BASIC? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:58:42 EST." <3.0.6.32.20040301225842.00985250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200403021419.i22EJKi16101@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Joe R." wrote: > Today I got two boxs of old Intel computer manuals that a friend of mine >dug up in Vermont. In one of the manuals are some brochures for >Ryan-McFarland BASIC. I've never heard of RM BASIC for any system before. >Anybody know anything about it? I seem to remember that being something that ran under CP/M on S-100 (i.e. Z-80) systems. That was a while ago, however :-) -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 2 08:30:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? References: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16452.39547.17000.557746@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I started answering offline but perhaps someone else is interested too, so here's my answer for the list. paul From: Paul Koning To: rigdonj@cfl.rr.com Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: OCR of 644 TIFF files? >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> Hi Paul, How much does it cost for Adobe's OCR download and what Joe> versions of Acrobat does it work with? Hi Joe... I was about to answer your query... The OCR in Acrobat is a plugin; I downloaded it off the Adobe website. It plugs into full (not reader-only) Acrobat, which I think costs a bit over $100. I bought version 5; that version is out of date at this point but I don't know which one is current. Another point to watch for: I do not know if Adobe still offers that plugin at no charge. The free version I have is limited to 50 pages at a time -- but you can do larger documents by breaking them up into 50 page chunks and re-merging them, which isn't hard to do with Acrobat. (Drag & drop does it.) There is also a no-limits version of that plugin. But it's obviously aimed at lawyers and the like, people with way too much money. I forgot the price but I think it was over $1000! The other issue with the plugin is that it produces a PDF file as output, which is fine if that's what you want. But a PDF file is NOT really editable, so if the results aren't quite what you want, it's very painful to tweak it. I did it on a 60 page document. Acrobat (full version) lets you edit a PDF file, for example to fix font glitches, but ONLY ONE LINE AT A TIME! A long time ago I used a "light" version of some commercial PC OCR program. I don't remember the name; perhaps I'll think of it later or find it somewhere. Pagesomething... That was ok, more flexible since it produces output that Word can use, and paragraphs actually come across as paragraphs rather than as individual lines. I don't remember how it did with mixed documents -- graphics plus text. The nice thing about the Adobe OCR is that it handles mixed pages well. As for scanning -- some memory says that you can scan in Acrobat. At this point I forgot how I did the original scan of the document I processed. As I said, that was about 60 pages (the original Ethernet spec, as a matter of fact). I may have scanned it page by page in Photoshop, then dragged/dropped the TIF files into Acrobat. Come to think of it, I also did OCR on a significantly larger document: a PDF file of page scans of a flight manual. I had Acrobat export the pages (result: 300 TIF files), ran them through Photoshop for contrast, clipping off crud at the edges, etc., then imported them back into Acrobat into a new document, which I then fed to the OCR machine. I now have the same manual with its text looking somewhat ratty, but fully searchable and much smaller. Ratty, because the OCR doesn't always identify the font correctly, so you tend to have fonts and type sizes mixed in a line when they weren't in the original. paul From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Mar 2 09:13:02 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? References: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16452.39547.17000.557746@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000b01c40068$ed7541a0$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:30 AM Subject: Re: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? > A long time ago I used a "light" version of some commercial PC OCR > program. I don't remember the name; perhaps I'll think of it later or > find it somewhere. Pagesomething... That was ok, more flexible since > it produces output that Word can use, and paragraphs Most likely Omnipage. The pro version is the best I've seen. Like Acrobat though, it's costly. $800 more or less. BM From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 2 09:18:15 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: is anyone on the list using Adobe Acrobat? References: <3.0.6.32.20040301215550.00849710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16452.39547.17000.557746@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <000b01c40068$ed7541a0$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <16452.42423.52508.872909@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Mahoney writes: Brian> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" Brian> To: Sent: Brian> Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:30 AM Subject: Re: is anyone on the Brian> list using Adobe Acrobat? >> A long time ago I used a "light" version of some commercial PC OCR >> program. I don't remember the name; perhaps I'll think of it >> later or find it somewhere. Pagesomething... That was ok, more >> flexible since it produces output that Word can use, and >> paragraphs Brian> Most likely Omnipage. The pro version is the best I've Brian> seen. Like Acrobat though, it's costly. $800 more or less. Thanks, yes it was Omnipage. A "light" version comes bundled with various scanners, and that's how I ran into it. paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 2 12:28:43 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Various Apples available in northern California Message-ID: Hi folks, Got this mail in from Jo Ann Pryor who has a bundle of stuff available. Please contact her directly if you're interested :) --------------------- Jo Ann Pryor (wjpryor@sunset.net) on March 2nd, 2004 at 03:33AM (GMT). Former elementary teacher that has an Apple III, and Apple IIe (128k), epson MX80 printer, Brothers HP 15 and tons of software, all manuals, computer magazines, extra cards in both machines. ---------------------- Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From patrick at evocative.com Tue Mar 2 14:02:50 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help Message-ID: Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Mar 2 14:06:25 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Mar 2, 04 12:02:50 pm Message-ID: <200403022006.PAA13967@wordstock.com> And thusly Patrick Rigney spake: > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? > I can't.... :( From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 2 14:33:11 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1078258759.7466.0.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 20:02, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? Nope, seems to be dead here... cheers Jules From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 14:23:33 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help References: <200403022006.PAA13967@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <4044ED45.EFC1DCD7@comcast.net> Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Patrick Rigney spake: > > > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? > > > > I can't.... :( Not sure what this thread is about, but I can open this web page just fine... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 2 14:53:07 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: <4044ED45.EFC1DCD7@comcast.net> References: <200403022006.PAA13967@wordstock.com> <4044ED45.EFC1DCD7@comcast.net> Message-ID: > > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? > > Not sure what this thread is about, but I can open this web page just >fine... Mac OS X 10.3.2, with Safari, and I can't get to it (with or without the question mark). Maybe you want one of the following? http://wwws.sun.com/software/javasystem/index.html http://wwws.sun.com/software/learnabout/java/ Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Mar 2 14:54:39 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 2, 04 12:53:07 pm Message-ID: <200403022054.PAA31923@wordstock.com> And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > > > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? > > > > Not sure what this thread is about, but I can open this web page just > >fine... > > Mac OS X 10.3.2, with Safari, and I can't get to it (with or without > the question mark). > > Maybe you want one of the following? > http://wwws.sun.com/software/javasystem/index.html > http://wwws.sun.com/software/learnabout/java/ > But on those pages are links to http://java.sun.com ... , which don't work. Cheers, Bryan Pope From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Mar 2 15:13:30 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: <200403022054.PAA31923@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <200403022113.QAA86962@smtp.9netave.com> Works fine for me with Internet Explorer... -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [OT] Strange/Help And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > > > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? > > > > Not sure what this thread is about, but I can open this web page just > >fine... > > Mac OS X 10.3.2, with Safari, and I can't get to it (with or without > the question mark). > > Maybe you want one of the following? > http://wwws.sun.com/software/javasystem/index.html > http://wwws.sun.com/software/learnabout/java/ > But on those pages are links to http://java.sun.com ... , which don't work. Cheers, Bryan Pope From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 2 15:17:49 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: <200403022054.PAA31923@wordstock.com> References: <200403022054.PAA31923@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <4044F9FD.8050308@ntlworld.com> Bryan Pope wrote: >And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > >>> > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? >>> >>> >>> Works fine here, I'm in the uk Dan From patrick at evocative.com Tue Mar 2 16:05:51 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: <4044F9FD.8050308@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: OK, from all of the responses I've received, some private, about half of you cannot, and about half can. As it turns out, I can access it from my data center, but not from my offices. For those of you who are into this kind of thing, it's a bigger issue than just not being able to get the web site: many XML documents used by various products (EJB containers, for example) make reference to DTDs and other resources on java.sun.com, so the site not being connectible causes some XML parsers to fail validation because the DTD/resource can't be loaded, and thus those web services go down with the Sun ship (yes, I know you can disable validation in the parser, but that's IFF the application in control allows you to do so...). What a pain. Things were so much simpler in 4K. Ah well. Thanks for everyone's assistance. --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Williams > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:18 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: [OT] Strange/Help > > > Bryan Pope wrote: > > >And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > > > > >>> > > Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? > >>> > >>> > >>> > > Works fine here, I'm in the uk > > Dan > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 2 21:47:02 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: A/UX 1.1.1 Message-ID: <005601c400d2$305fe6a0$0500fea9@game> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3080044561&category=11231&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 Apple A/UX 1.1.1 (internal use only) cd went for $374.99, good price for a rare item that I never seen anywhere else before. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 2 22:18:42 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Hokki =) Message-ID: Looking forward for a response :P password: 15135 From jeff at flambe.org Wed Mar 3 00:14:38 2004 From: jeff at flambe.org (Jeff Cole) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help In-Reply-To: References: <4044F9FD.8050308@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20040303061438.GC7181@novylen.net> Dead from Atlanta, GA and DC. This is actually causing an outage of [company I work for]'s Development site. It's jrun (spit) based, and hit the dirt an hour or so ago. I'd been trying for several hours to download java for my pc as I'd uninstalled mozilla and needed it for Firefox. On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 02:05:51PM -0800, Patrick Rigney wrote: > OK, from all of the responses I've received, some private, about half of you > cannot, and about half can. As it turns out, I can access it from my data > center, but not from my offices. For those of you who are into this kind of > thing, it's a bigger issue than just not being able to get the web site: > many XML documents used by various products (EJB containers, for example) > make reference to DTDs and other resources on java.sun.com, so the site not > being connectible causes some XML parsers to fail validation because the > DTD/resource can't be loaded, and thus those web services go down with the > Sun ship (yes, I know you can disable validation in the parser, but that's > IFF the application in control allows you to do so...). What a pain. > Things were so much simpler in 4K. Ah well. Thanks for everyone's > assistance. --Patrick From Edzard at kolks.nl Tue Mar 2 17:11:18 2004 From: Edzard at kolks.nl (Edzard H.E.H.M. Kolks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Elektor and OSI's OS-65D (was OHIO-DOS) In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48E6@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: <20040302231122.BC35A239E2@eomer.vianetworks.nl> Hello Robert and Bob, OHIO-DOS was first used with the Junior in 1983. The Junior is a KIM like SBC, witch became very popular in Holland/Belgium/Germany Later on in 1985/1986 Elektor (Elektuur is the dutch name for the publisher who resides in Holland) published the Octopus. It was a very clever (PC)system based also on the same OHIO-DOS. They used version 3.2 or 3.3 (OS-65D V3.3/V3.2) and patched it a bit (that's why I want the original sources to compare) for the Octopus. You could buy a 5 or 10 disk version. Disk 1: "System LOYS" Track 0-1 OS-65D V3.3 Track 2-5 Basic V3.3 Track 7-9 Micro-Ware-assembler & editor & DOS-link Track 10-11 OD 65D V3.2 Disk 2: "OSI tutorial disk II Disk 3: "OSI tutorial disk III Disk 4: "OSI tutorial disk IV Disk 5: "OSI tutorial disk V Disk 2 and 5 are patched for the Octopus 65 system On disk 5 there's also the MOS-Technology assembler Disk 6: Source for Video/debugger/Stenobasic/NewDos/disassembler/Disk loader etc. Disk 7: Source SamSam (editor)/BTLOYS/BTDSK2/BTOSI/MERBAS/MERASM/ERASE/EDIASM Disk 8: Source for wordprocessor EDARI / EDSUB Disk 9: Source Wordprocessor part 2 / EDSUB Disk 10: Fig-Forth I have also a lot of other disks with software: TP Pascal/WP/DBASE etc. etc. The articles where published in the so called Computer Special. Eventually this became five magazines (each over 100 pages). They where published in the language Dutch, German and English (which I don't have). In Germany there where published even six magazines. The german magazines contain also more information. For example a FDC based on the WD 2797 was also published with sources for OHIO-DOS. After first magazine the name of the Octopus system was changed in EC65 and later when an 65816 card was edit to the system it became EC65-K. In Germany the system was first called SAMSON. Because of property threats of the firm SAMSON AG the name was (I think) changed to EC65. I have PDF's of the sources for the Junior (1983) and the EC65 (1985). if you want to I can mail them to you (about 2.5 MB each). I have also a copy of the OHIO Scientific Assembler editor and extended monitor reference manual. I you want to I can make a scan of it and send it also to you (It's a copy of a copy....) Also a copy of the OSI gazette with an article about the Disk Routines is available. Right now we have two working systems and we are redrawing the schematics in Eagle. Our first objective is to rescue the software and transfer them to a saver environment (=CDROM). Then we want to develop a better 65816 card and port the OHIO-DOS to that platform. If we succeed we want to add fancy stuff to the system like IDE support, maybe Ethernet etc. What I'm looking for is as much as possible background info on the OHIO-DOS system, so that I can write an article about it. When the firm began, who were in charge, why was this developed and in such a "cruel" way (track 12 and BEXEC*.....!!) If you could provide me with this kind of info or point to me some sources it would be great!! In Holland there where a least three spin offs of this OS! (just to make things easy for use...) To where made in the so called 6502 Kenners. A famous group (worldwide 500 members at its high) of 6502 fanatics with there roots in the KIM environment. I have also a lot of there magazines (early years only dutch, later a lot of articles are in English) Before I forget: The system had also a Z80 card so that you could use CP/M software. I have also a lot of software (sources included) for this "side step". You could start form out the OHIO-DOS system CP/M. Incredible isn't it! Plans for a 6809 (also an project in the Computer Special series) flex system where never realised although remarks are made in several articles. (I have this flex system, with sources etc.) Best Regards, Edzard -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Robert Maxwell [mailto:RMaxwell@atlantissi.com] Verzonden: maandag 1 maart 2004 16:34 Aan: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' CC: 'wh.sudbrink@verizon.net'; 'Edzard@kolks.nl' Onderwerp: Elektor and OSI's OS-65D (was OHIO-DOS) As the owner of a modified and still-working OSI Superboard 2 running under OS-65D 3.3, I may have a few insights about the Elektor link to OS-65D: - I had owned my machine for around 5 years (that would make it 1985) when a friend showed me the two-part Elektor article of a floppy-disk interface for the ongoing "Junior Computer" series. Using the schematics, I hand-wired (anyone else remember Vector's "Pencil Wiring" with solder-through insulation?) a disk interface for my Superboard. - The Elektor article "adopted" OS-65D because OSI sold the DOS as a stand-alone product, complete with utilities for customizing disks, developing code in BASIC and Assembler, and capable of running serial or memory-mapped user I/O with the change of a byte in DOS. It sounds like the Elektor authors went forward and used OD-65D for later projects. - By 1985, MA/COM had renamed OSI to ISOTRON during the slow- and shut-down of manufacturing - they stopped buying masked ROMs, and made Superboards and C1Ps patched to use 2716 EPROMs instead - but were still selling the Disk OS. When I telephone-ordered a copy and asked for "OS-65D V. 3.3 for a C1P", a fellow worker figured I was some sort of spy speaking code! Fortunately, the folks at the factory knew what I was talking about. The documentation binder bears the name ISOTRON on its cover. - Like the Elektor authors, I patched my OS-65D, for an 80x24 video card in my system. I had written extensions into a copy of the OSI Monitor ROM: I was a little peeved when OS-65D loaded, ignored the redirected video, and brought in its own drivers for the original 24x24 screen... I was sooo glad I maintained back-compatibility. I still have the original OSI disks and docs: there are 5 disks with all sorts of utilities (mostly in BASIC), the binder for the OS and separate manuals for the "Assembler/Editor and Extended Monitor" and disk BASIC. The handiest thing (and most well-worn!) is the little fold-out card listing DOS commands, memory locations and error code descriptions. I'm a little puzzled at the reference to OS-65D V3.2... Version 3.3 was the "full" version, and the single-floppy reduced version was 3.1: perhaps someone patched a version 3.1 disk for their own project, and just incremented the number? Bob Maxwell --- Original Message --- > > I'm looking for information on the OHIO-DOS system. > > Has anyone some sources, programs or historic info > > on this OS for the 6502? > > > > Right now I'm rebuilding an 65816 system (EC65K) which > > was published in 1986 by Elektuur/Elektor and was running > > OHIO DOS 65D V3.2. > > Ohio Scientific Instruments (OSI) had a 6502 OS in the late > 1970's and early 1980's called OS-65D. They were bought by > MA/COM (sometimes mistyped as MA-COM) who carried on for a > couple of years. I don't know whether they licensed it to > any other vendors, but you might Google for OS-65D. Also, > OS-65U was their multi user OS. I'm a "fan" of OSI, if it > turns out that this is the OSI OS, I would be interested to > know the story of Elektuur/Elektor and how the old (and to > be honest, rather crude) OS was being used in 1986. > > Bill Sudbrink > From jduck at earthlink.net Tue Mar 2 22:31:27 2004 From: jduck at earthlink.net (John Duckworth) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: CPT 8520 Message-ID: <000801c400d8$66f51450$3dfad742@Jack> Hi, I have a CPT 8520, printer and keyboard but I can't find the power cord or printer cable. Could you provide any info on finding CPT hook ups? Thanks, Jack Duckworth From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 17:53:32 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040302235332.4873.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry Sellam... I was thinking of oldcomputers.net Lyos Gemini Norezel Vintage Computer Festival wrote: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > LOL... Somehow this doesn't supprise me... also Sellam's website > "vintage.org" lists the Compaq Portable II as a 286 machine... but the Where did you see that? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 17:55:10 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <20040301121249.F96026@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040302235510.2392.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> DO NOT USE ANYTHING BUT THE FACTORY ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY. If you use anything else, then you will be writing to this list about the machine no longer working. Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com Ok... Grumpy... would I be writing if I had a factory original? Lyos Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 17:57:46 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040301122641.I96026@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040302235746.73170.qmail@web41707.mail.yahoo.com> You don't. You find Compaq MS-DOS by not erasing it on a machine that has it, or by being on good terms with a collector. Hey... I didn't erase it! The blasted thing erased itself. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 18:01:24 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040301123703.X96026@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040303000124.73911.qmail@web41707.mail.yahoo.com> Fred Cisin wrote: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: well enough to use them on every machine that they have ever made Ok... good. If you do it wrong, you will cause serious damage commercial adapters are readily available (Roger's, etc.) Phooey... the wires are exactly the same... it's just a smaller connector. > The IDC cable should work as is. If you are referring to the FDC cable, the Compaq factory cable for that model has a card-edge connector at the drive end (for 5.25" drives); you need a dual row header (for 3.5" drives) I have and IDC cable that works in that port... and has 2 edge connectors and 2 pin connectors. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From m.gro at bluemail.ch Tue Mar 2 07:32:56 2004 From: m.gro at bluemail.ch (m.gro@bluemail.ch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: CFX-40 Message-ID: <4032A45600057690@mssazhh-int.msg.bluewin.ch> Hi Do you still have Casio CFX-40 for sale? What is your price for a new unused one? Yours m.gro From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Mar 2 22:18:39 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk References: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <200403030418.XAA24748410@shell.TheWorld.com> It is most definitely not an RK05... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mike at ambientdesign.com Tue Mar 2 05:28:11 2004 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Apple IIc References: <20040301055937.5980.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004301c40049$72975730$3d00a8c0@falco> Hi! I normally avoid saying things like this... I have a bunch of IIc compatibles (Laser 128) that take the same power adapter as the IIc. The connector is identical. The adaptor is a 17V unit, very boring and average. Because I only have one original supply, but about 8 machines, I ran several of the others off a 13.8V automotive power supply via a suitable cable and they ran perfectly. The rough DC is regulated internally, so the machine doesn't seem to care much what it gets so long as it's not too far off 17V. WARNINGS... This is a Laser 128. It seems to be practically identical to a IIc in most ways. However, I can't say whether an original IIc would be happy running off 13.8V as the Lasers were. I do know that their power supply was a very simple single-voltage DC affair, and the 7-pin DIN connector was just a weird choice. As to which pins do what, you can tell by popping the machine open and looking, or looking it up on the web... http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/files/schemas.txt This states the PS voltage is 15V, that may well be correct for the IIc. Also note that if you accidentally reverse the connections on the PS connector, it will reverse the voltage across the IIc, and quite possibly destroy it. If you're not 100% confident that you're going to do the right thing, it might be better to try to find a IIc (or maybe Laser 128) power supply... Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyos Norezel" To: Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:59 PM Subject: Apple IIc > Hey ya'll I just located an old Apple IIc and was trying to figure out it's power supply... anyone know where I can find pinouts for this computer's power supply port? It's the male side of a 7 pin plug. Thanks. > Lyos Gemini Norezel > P.S.- I'll be getting a Commodore 64 (fully loaded/equipped) and a TRS(trash)-80 in the next coupla days... oh boy, oh boy!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love getting "new" toys. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Mar 2 14:09:28 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Strange/Help Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA44A6@MAIL10> Yup. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:03 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [OT] Strange/Help Is anyone able to open http://java.sun.com/? From tim at spiritsphere.com Tue Mar 2 17:00:58 2004 From: tim at spiritsphere.com (Neko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk, I think I got it! Message-ID: <001601c400aa$3a516670$0201a8c0@neko2> First off, thank you all for all of your help! And sorry about the missing info, the scale was off because my hands are an above average size, I put some new pictures up though. It was actually the comment about wang 2280 from Tom that got me on the right track! I managed to find this site: http://pinpoint-eng.com/1016.htm which compares four disks that are compatable, then after more searching I found this site: http://www.mfarris.com/pack/pack18.html which I saw before but in a new light because of the new information. But it compared 2280 and CDC 9448 as a the "same", and also (which I didn't get a chance to tell you all because I got it yesterday) I found an identical disk made by wang, and the model number was 725-0711 (I honestly thought it was a phone number at first, heh). But that confirmed that they're the same. Okay, so using those numbers, I found on this site: http://www.mbiusa.com/Bucket/mbi2.html that says it uses the Pheonix SMD Drive! I know this information is on other sites as well, but without your help I couldn't be sure of what was what until now. So, I'm pretty sure that these disks go into that drive. I would like some input on that conclusion though because I couldn't find any pictures to help confirm it. Also, and I'll be doing more searching for more info as well, but I still don't know what size these are, or if they even have a standard size for that drive, so any input there would be great too! Thank you all again, your help is GREATLY appreciated!! Best Wishes :) Tim From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Mar 3 06:14:52 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Hokki =) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 04:18, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > Looking forward for a response :P Now you're going to have to tell us idiots (i.e. me) what Hokki is... (to make this on topic, I just stuck Word 2.0 on the laptop... and it didn't even need a reboot after ;) cheers Jules From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Mar 3 06:37:19 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Hokki =) In-Reply-To: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain> from Jules Richardson at "Mar 3, 4 12:01:13 pm" Message-ID: <200403031237.EAA12098@floodgap.com> > > Looking forward for a response :P > > Now you're going to have to tell us idiots (i.e. me) what Hokki is... Actually, that almost looked like a virus message to me ... -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In memory of John Banner --------------------------------------------------- From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Mar 3 06:53:17 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Anyone near Salem, Ohio? Message-ID: <200403031253.HAA86670@smtp.9netave.com> I may have a line on some vintage equipment in Salem, Ohio, near Youngstown. Is there anyone on the list living nearby who might be willing to help with pickup, packing and shipping? I'd happily pay shipping/packaging costs plus a little something for your trouble. -- Tony From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Mar 3 07:45:38 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: C64 still in use References: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> <200402270921.19820.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <006101c40126$01142920$26504ed5@geoff> Also for C64 ( and VIC20 ) fans WCN supplies has the "Quick Data" drive complete with one cartridge on sale for ?1.50 ! Website (unfinished) is www.wcnsupplies.com email info@wcnsupplies.fsnet.co.uk . Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dickens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: C64 still in use > > > Here's something for the C64 fans... personally I'm into Suns and Apple ][+'s > but came across this and think some people here may like it. > > > http://analogik.com/gallery_64_myer.asp > > > James > From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Mar 3 08:38:47 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Apple IIc References: <20040301055937.5980.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c40049$72975730$3d00a8c0@falco> Message-ID: <001501c4012d$4ef12880$0200a8c0@look.ca> > Hi! > > I normally avoid saying things like this... > > I have a bunch of IIc compatibles (Laser 128) that take the same power > adapter as the IIc. The connector is identical. The adaptor is a 17V unit, > very boring and average. Because I only have one original supply, but about > 8 machines, I ran several of the others off a 13.8V automotive power supply > via a suitable cable and they ran perfectly. The rough DC is regulated > internally, so the machine doesn't seem to care much what it gets so long as > it's not too far off 17V. > > WARNINGS... This is a Laser 128. It seems to be practically identical to a > IIc in most ways. However, I can't say whether an original IIc would be > happy running off 13.8V as the Lasers were. I do know that their power > supply was a very simple single-voltage DC affair, and the 7-pin DIN > connector was just a weird choice. As to which pins do what, you can tell by > popping the machine open and looking, or looking it up on the web... > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/files/schemas.txt > > This states the PS voltage is 15V, that may well be correct for the IIc. > Also note that if you accidentally reverse the connections on the PS > connector, it will reverse the voltage across the IIc, and quite possibly > destroy it. If you're not 100% confident that you're going to do the right > thing, it might be better to try to find a IIc (or maybe Laser 128) power > supply... > > Mike. I suppose we have already established this but in case we haven't : Apple IIC 'Factory' supply is : 15Vdc 1.2Amps 18W Laser 128 PS is: 17V 1.8A (This is the PS I got with the Laser although it says Vtech Canada on it. I presume it is a replacement but works fine.) BM From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Mar 3 10:07:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:52 2005 Subject: Hokki =) References: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16454.700.40000.351940@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 04:18, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: >> Looking forward for a response :P Jules> Now you're going to have to tell us idiots (i.e. me) what Jules> Hokki is... It's one of the dozens of "subject" strings generated by the latest virus. Just remember the usual rules of safe computing: don't open any attachments from strangers. And never open .pif or .scr files because nothing legit ever comes in attachments of that type. (They *are* theoretically legit extensions on Windows, but in the real world they should never appear in mail.) paul From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 10:17:10 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Anyone near Salem, Ohio? In-Reply-To: <200403031253.HAA86670@smtp.9netave.com> Message-ID: <20040303161710.84962.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> I live in Cleveland, around 60+ miles away from salem. --- Tony Eros wrote: > I may have a line on some vintage equipment in > Salem, Ohio, near Youngstown. > Is there anyone on the list living nearby who might > be willing to help with > pickup, packing and shipping? I'd happily pay > shipping/packaging costs plus > a little something for your trouble. > > -- Tony __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From aek at spies.com Wed Mar 3 10:41:05 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk Message-ID: <200403031641.i23Gf5bA017988@spies.com> It is either for a CDC Hawk (9427) or Phoenix (9448) I don't have a picture of either drive handy though to tell. From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 3 11:49:51 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Brother Wordprocessor Floppy Disks Message-ID: <1ga2fw4.19sggu2797128M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Yesterday my boss came to me and handed me a stack of 3 1/2 inch floppy disks and asked me to get the data off them. Ahh, the perils of being the geekiest person in your orginazation! :) Anyway, all he could tell me is that they were from a Brother word processor. It didn't have a model number and no serial port. One of the disks is a system disk ("Spreadsheet, punctualtion alert and data storage disk for Brother Word Processor version <1.0>") and is dated 1991. I tried the disk in my DOS 6.22 PC, no deal. Then I tried cw2dmk (thanks Tim!) and my Catweasel, but I guess the format isn't close enough to IBM 370 (FM) or IBM 34 (MFM) formats to be useful. Does anyone know of a tool I can use to read these disks? Barring that: does anybody know what format the disk is using? I'm not past modifying cw2dmk to read it, but I would hope not to have to reverse engineer the "on disk" format. Thanks! -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 3 11:55:06 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Saved (big haul) Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks to Andreas Holz and Mr. Howard Israel of Zetters Pools Ltd in London, we managed to save three PDP-11/94's, two 11/44's and a /24, plus RL02 disks, a zillion spares, a lot of documentation and small stuff. All systems were SCSI based, so, yes, we're VERY happy with them! Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 3 12:22:23 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Hokki =) In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Hokki =)" (Mar 3, 12:01) References: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10403031822.ZM17615@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 3, 12:01, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 04:18, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > Looking forward for a response :P > > Now you're going to have to tell us idiots (i.e. me) what Hokki is... It's a virus (or at least that subject line was created by a virus), and it DIDN'T come from me. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From spedraja at ono.com Wed Mar 3 13:46:57 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: PC-Blue, PC-Sig, CUG and other Soft Collections References: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain> <10403031822.ZM17615@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002101c40158$49debb20$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> I dedicated last days to search accross the Internet for the Pc-Blue, Pc-Sig, CUG, Exec-Pc , PcSoft, PcMagazine utilities, and other collections of software. My notices was about a growing difficult or even impossible obtention of some or even all of it. Well, I have some success in my search. By the moment I could locate these collections: * Pc-Blue almost complete, from vol001 to vol723. I should need to locate over 50 lost vols, mostly from the 500-723 group. * One cd-rom I've located talk about Pc-Red and Pc-Green. What the hell is this ? * I could obtain over 2000 vols. of the Pc-Sig collection, and I'm pending to purchase some cd-rom with parts of the collection availables in Europe yet. If I understand its way of work, one volume or disk could have diverse releases but keeping its physical identificacion (example: disk0001.zip). Is this right ? * I could locate too in some BBS and Planetmirror the first part of the CUG library, from volumes 100 to 500 or so. * About Exec-Pc, I only could have some success with some collections of games edited in form of magazine years ago. They are in some places related with games. * About the rest of Exec-Pc files I couldn't locate nothing with this name, even in the ExecPc BBS (by the way, I should like to know if the messages to the SySop arrives to him; I am pending to raise my level to begin to download some items, mostly of PC-SIG). * Finally, I couldn't locate nothin of PCSOFT items. I must review an old collection of over 150 Shareware CD's from the beginning/middle of the nineties. I'm almost sure they contains some of these collections and/or files. But all the help is welcome. My intention is classify all the files and store them in a manner similar to the old Simtel, Oak, Wuarchive or Cica servers did it. By the way, I think that someone asked for these items some time ago (Perhaps Gene for Retoroarchive...) Cheers Sergio From redodd at comcast.net Wed Mar 3 14:46:09 2004 From: redodd at comcast.net (Ralph E. Dodd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution Message-ID: <001501c40160$a10fec40$6401a8c0@mainpc> Hello, I broke the neck off the crt in my TRS-80 Model 12. I have a crt from a Model 4. Can I use this in the Model 12 or will it cause problems like smoke etc.? Thanks. Ralph From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Mar 3 15:38:54 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? Message-ID: <200403032138.i23LcsF31707@mwave.heeltoe.com> I finally got my TS11 racked this morning and after a good cleaning found that it has no +5v. (I must say, I love DEC manuals...) Looks like the H744 supply is not working. Anyone know about these? Are they easy to fix? Should I just pull it, find a schematic and start probing? (anyone have one they want to part with? :-) thanks! -brad From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 3 16:23:10 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <001501c40160$a10fec40$6401a8c0@mainpc> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Dodd > Sent: 03 March 2004 20:46 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > > Hello, > > I broke the neck off the crt in my TRS-80 Model 12. I have a > crt from a Model 4. Can I use this in the Model 12 or will it > cause problems like smoke etc.? Thanks. If the M12 is anything like the M2 it just uses a standard 12" B&W TV tube. When my model 2 was 'handled' by airport baggage crews they smashed the screen to bits, so I replaced it with the screen from a standard old B&W TV. If that's the case remember to change only the tube itself, ie leave ALL the wiring behind - you must loosen the holding screw(s) on the yoke (the mass of copper wiring) and fit it to the 'new' tube. Remember not to tighten too tightly! I'm assuming you also know that if you power up the replacement screen and it doesn't work you must either discharge the tube with a suitable EHT meter on the connection to the flyback transformer (very thick wire going to the back of the screen rather than to the neck) or leave it overnight to discharge itself before swapping in another one. Tony will be along soon with some more info :o) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 3 17:06:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: PC-Blue, PC-Sig, CUG and other Soft Collections In-Reply-To: <002101c40158$49debb20$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> References: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain> <10403031822.ZM17615@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040303180616.00816790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sergio, I have the 13th edition of the PC-SIG CD ROM. Does it have anything that you're missing? I also have a new unopened copy one of the PC blue disks. I'll try to find it and let you know what it is. I think I also have some PC magazine disks. Joe At 08:46 PM 3/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >I dedicated last days to search accross the Internet for the Pc-Blue, >Pc-Sig, CUG, Exec-Pc , PcSoft, PcMagazine utilities, and other collections >of software. My notices was about a growing difficult or even impossible >obtention of some or even all of it. Well, I have some success in my search. >By the moment I could locate these collections: > >* Pc-Blue almost complete, from vol001 to vol723. I should need to locate >over 50 lost vols, mostly from the 500-723 group. >* One cd-rom I've located talk about Pc-Red and Pc-Green. What the hell is >this ? >* I could obtain over 2000 vols. of the Pc-Sig collection, and I'm pending >to purchase some cd-rom with parts of the collection availables in Europe >yet. If I understand its way of work, one volume or disk could have diverse >releases but keeping its physical identificacion (example: disk0001.zip). Is >this right ? >* I could locate too in some BBS and Planetmirror the first part of the CUG >library, from volumes 100 to 500 or so. >* About Exec-Pc, I only could have some success with some collections of >games edited in form of magazine years ago. They are in some places related >with games. >* About the rest of Exec-Pc files I couldn't locate nothing with this name, >even in the ExecPc BBS (by the way, I should like to know if the messages to >the SySop arrives to him; I am pending to raise my level to begin to >download some items, mostly of PC-SIG). >* Finally, I couldn't locate nothin of PCSOFT items. > >I must review an old collection of over 150 Shareware CD's from the >beginning/middle of the nineties. I'm almost sure they contains some of >these collections and/or files. But all the help is welcome. My intention is >classify all the files and store them in a manner similar to the old Simtel, >Oak, Wuarchive or Cica servers did it. > >By the way, I think that someone asked for these items some time ago >(Perhaps Gene for Retoroarchive...) > >Cheers > >Sergio > > From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 3 17:13:46 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: CPT 8520 In-Reply-To: <000801c400d8$66f51450$3dfad742@Jack> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, John Duckworth wrote: > Hi, I have a CPT 8520, printer and keyboard but I can't find the > power cord or printer cable. Could you provide any info on > finding CPT hook ups? Thanks, Jack Duckworth > There is a website at www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/cpt/cpt.php which has some information and photos of the CPT 8520. Direct contact with the curator might be productive. - don From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Mar 3 17:40:33 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Elektor and OSI's OS-65D (was OHIO-DOS) In-Reply-To: <20040302231122.BC35A239E2@eomer.vianetworks.nl> References: <20040302231122.BC35A239E2@eomer.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: <40466CF1.7060509@gifford.co.uk> Edzard H.E.H.M. Kolks wrote: > I have also a copy of the OHIO Scientific Assembler editor and extended > monitor reference manual. I'd be very interested to find out more about that, especially the extended monitor. My Compukit UK101 came with a 300 baud cassette tape with games on one side and an extended monitor on the other. I've never worked out whether the extended monitor was written specially for the UK101, or was simply a copy of the Ohio Scientific (as was the rest of the UK101). For example, the command on the UK101 to disassemble a program is 'Q' followed by the start address. Is the Ohio Scientific monitor the same? Photo of the monitor cassette: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/ukcass.htm#monitor -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From spedraja at ono.com Wed Mar 3 18:02:42 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: PC-Blue, PC-Sig, CUG and other Soft Collections References: <1078315272.6974.2.camel@weka.localdomain><10403031822.ZM17615@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3.0.6.32.20040303180616.00816790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005501c4017c$03f55a00$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> > Sergio, Hi, Joe. > I have the 13th edition of the PC-SIG CD ROM. Does it have anything that > you're missing? I also have a new unopened copy one of the PC blue disks. > I'll try to find it and let you know what it is. I think I also have some > PC magazine disks. Perhaps. I think that some packages could appear or not from one edition to another of the Pc-Sig library, depending of the appearing of one new release of the corresponding software. But it's interesting in all cases. Same for the Pc-Blue and PcMagazine disks. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 3 18:01:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk, I think I got it! In-Reply-To: <001601c400aa$3a516670$0201a8c0@neko2> from "Neko" at Mar 2, 4 06:00:58 pm Message-ID: > light because of the new information. But it compared 2280 and CDC 9448 = [...] > I would like some input on that conclusion though because I couldn't = > find any pictures to help confirm it. Also, and I'll be doing more = > searching for more info as well, but I still don't know what size these = > are, or if they even have a standard size for that drive, so any input = I have a CDC9448. I also have the technical manual for it. The platters are 14" diameter (or thereabouts). There's a removeable pack (cartridge) containing 1 platter and 3 fixed platters built into the drive. Each data surface stores 16 Mbuytes. The removeable pack has 1 data surface and one servo surface (used for positioning the heads), the fixed platters have 5 data surfaces and 1 servo surface. The drive uses the appropriate servo surface depending on whether your accessing a fixed or remvoeable data surface, thus eliminating problems caused by slight 'run out' between the fixed and removeable platters. The total capacity of the drive is therefore 96 Mbytes. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 3 18:10:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <001501c40160$a10fec40$6401a8c0@mainpc> from "Ralph E. Dodd" at Mar 3, 4 03:46:09 pm Message-ID: > > Hello, > > I broke the neck off the crt in my TRS-80 Model 12. I have a crt from a = > Model 4. Can I use this in the Model 12 or will it cause problems like = > smoke etc.? Thanks. My experience suggests that monochrome CRTs are pretty generic. Bascially you have to match up the physical size of the screen, the deflection angle, the heater voltage, and the pinout. If you get those right, then you'll get something recognisable on the screen, no smoke. You'll most likely get a good picture! Assuming it's a 12" 90 degree deflection angle one (the M4 certainly is), then there are 2 main types. 7 pin (modified B7G) base, with a 12V heater and a narrow neack and 8 pin (B8H) with a 6.3V heater and a wide neck. The M4 is of the former type. If the M12 yoke and socket will fit, then my guess is that it will work fine. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 3 18:15:01 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: <200403032138.i23LcsF31707@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 3, 4 04:38:54 pm Message-ID: > > > I finally got my TS11 racked this morning and after a good cleaning > found that it has no +5v. (I must say, I love DEC manuals...) > > Looks like the H744 supply is not working. Anyone know about these? > Are they easy to fix? Should I just pull it, find a schematic and start I've fixed them. They're not hard to fix. Yes, it's a switching regulator, but it's a benign one, running off 30V AC from an isolating transformer. That can source enough current to blow transistors apart (see below) but it's a lot nicer than a switcher running off the mains directly. Whatever you do, don't disable the overcurrent trip. If you do, you can bet that murphey's law will cause the corwbar to fire, and then you'll have a lot of silicon blown apart as the current through it goes sky high. Don't ask how I found this out, suffice it to say I had to replace a handful of transistors.... Anyway, start by checking the fuse (yes there is one). Then make sure you're getting a sensible votlage across the large capacitor. This should be about 40-odd votls IIRC (full wave rectified version of the AC input). Then check the chopper transistor, other transistors, etc. The IC -- a good old 723 -- rarely fails unless there are other faults too. Oh yes, make sure the screw terminals (large capactiors, inductor block) are tight and making good contact. > probing? > > (anyone have one they want to part with? :-) I will pretend I didn't read that :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 3 18:19:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 3, 4 10:23:10 pm Message-ID: > If the M12 is anything like the M2 it just uses a standard 12" B&W TV tube. > When my model 2 was 'handled' by airport baggage crews they smashed the > screen to bits, so I replaced it with the screen from a standard old B&W TV. FWIW, the cheapest way to get such a CRT is to buy a cheap portable TV -- even a new one -- and raid the CRT from it. > If that's the case remember to change only the tube itself, ie leave ALL the > wiring behind - you must loosen the holding screw(s) on the yoke (the mass > of copper wiring) and fit it to the 'new' tube. Remember not to tighten too > tightly! The old method for this is 'tighten until the CRT implodes, then back off quarter of a turn' :-). [Note : If you don't realise this is a joke, then you shouldn't be attempting a CRT replacement, OK!!!] > > I'm assuming you also know that if you power up the replacement screen and > it doesn't work you must either discharge the tube with a suitable EHT meter > on the connection to the flyback transformer (very thick wire going to the > back of the screen rather than to the neck) or leave it overnight to > discharge itself before swapping in another one. Unless there's a bleeder resistor in the EHT supply -- and AFAIK there isn't in the M4, so there probably isn't in the M12 either -- the CRT can hold a charge for a lot longer than 'overnight'. The charge is not generally enough to be lethal, but it's a nasty shock, and it may cause you to drop the CRT. I alwayse discharge a CRT with my EHT probe before handling it. Don't discharge it by shorting the anode connector to the chassis -- not even to the CRT earth (the spring contact onto the outer aquadag coating). The resulting spike can take out chips all over the machine. You have been warned! -tony From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 3 18:32:49 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Quick question - mneng1.sys In-Reply-To: <40466CF1.7060509@gifford.co.uk> References: <20040302231122.BC35A239E2@eomer.vianetworks.nl> <40466CF1.7060509@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200403040032.49299.lists@microvax.org> Hey guys! Does anyone know of a copy of mneng1.sys (firmware for Decserver 90TL etc) online? As in, available to download over ftp, for all the possible pedants :) Thanks! alex/melt From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 3 18:35:56 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "H744 +5 supply - easy to fix?" (Mar 3, 16:38) References: <200403032138.i23LcsF31707@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10403040035.ZM17938@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 3, 16:38, Brad Parker wrote: > > I finally got my TS11 racked this morning and after a good cleaning > found that it has no +5v. (I must say, I love DEC manuals...) > > Looks like the H744 supply is not working. Anyone know about these? > Are they easy to fix? Should I just pull it, find a schematic and start > probing? It's used in various devices, from KL10s to 11/34s so the schematic shouldn't be hard to find, and yes, they're fairly easy to work on. It's a fairly simple circuit based on a 723 regulator chip. I think I do have a spare, but I doubt if you want to pay transatlantic shipping :-) H7440 and H7441 are very similar (different circuits, same purpose). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at ian.viemeister.com Wed Mar 3 18:51:34 2004 From: classiccmp at ian.viemeister.com (Ian Viemeister) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Brother Wordprocessor Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <1ga2fw4.19sggu2797128M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <1ga2fw4.19sggu2797128M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, tim lindner wrote: > Anyway, all he could tell me is that they were from a Brother word > processor. It didn't have a model number and no serial port. I'm not sure about your particular case, but I've seen rather a lot of word processors with 3.5" double density floppy drives, and folks tending to use high density floppies in them. Works just fine, of course, but the result is a DD floppy that has a HD sense hole. > I tried the disk in my DOS 6.22 PC, no deal. If I'm right about the above.... the PC drive will see the HD hole and try (and fail) to read the disk as HD. If you wrap a bit of tape or a post-it around the HD hole, the PC drive should see it properly as DD. Most of these machines (that I've seen, anyway) seem to use FAT12, so that DOS machine should be about to read them just fine. Good luck. --Ian From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 3 19:00:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M980 PROM Programmer manual Message-ID: Yo Joe! I finally found this. Is this the manual you were needing? Still need a copy/scan? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 3 19:18:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: CPT 8520 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Don Maslin > Sent: 03 March 2004 23:14 > To: John Duckworth > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: CPT 8520 > > > Hi, I have a CPT 8520, printer and keyboard but I can't > find the power > > cord or printer cable. Could you provide any info on > finding CPT hook > > ups? Thanks, Jack Duckworth > > > > There is a website at www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/cpt/cpt.php > which has some information and photos of the CPT 8520. > Direct contact with the curator might be productive. That would be me then :) Sadly all I know is what's on the CPT page - the extra info that was supposed to come from someone's Mum who apparently wrote a lot of the business apps never materialised, which is a shame. John, if you're reading this, is there a chance you can send me a picture of your keyboard and printer so I know what to look out for? I hate having such a big machine and no means to drive it! There's contact details on the BinarySaurs website in my sig. Cheers :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From hirschopd at msn.com Wed Mar 3 20:17:00 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) Message-ID: Joe, We solved the hardware portion of our problem and are now trying to resolve some iRMX system issues. How do I get availability and price on some of the Intel Manuels included in your list and that of Alossow's. Paul Hirsch >From: "Joe R." >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:27:28 -0500 > >At 02:27 AM 2/28/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Joe, > >do you have part numbers on the booards you have? > >Paul Hirsch > > > Here is a link to a Multibus webpage that I've been working on. >. MOST of the cards >that I have are listed there along with descriptions, part numbers and >pictures. It's still a work in progress so there are some missing bits and >pieces and I still have a stack of cards to add to it. It seems like >everytime I turn over a rock around here I find more Multibus stuff :-) > > FWIW I gutted* four Intel 86/330s a couple of years ago so I have all >the >cards for them. > > *Before anyone complains about me gutting vintage systems I'd like to >point out that these had had the hard drives removed before I got them and >I didn't have any Sw or docs for them and that I spent several months >trying to track down the stuff before I gave up and stripped them. I posted >several requests on this list and didn't get a single reply. > > Joe > > > > > > > >>From: "Joe R." > >>Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >>Posts" > >>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >> > >>Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) > >>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:17:09 -0500 > >> > >>At 02:28 PM 2/27/04 -0800, you wrote: > >> >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: > >> > > >> >> We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 > >>Operating > >> >> System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin >booting > >>and > >> >> get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 >procrsser, > >>the > >> >> 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of > >>options > >> >> unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has >any > >>advice > >> >> I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that >they > >>would > >> >> like to sell. > >> > > >> >Sounds like a software problem. > >> > > >> >What's an 86/330? > >> > >> Sounds like an Intel 86/330 computer (8086 CPU Multibus system). I >have > >>parts for them and I've already replied to him. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > >> >-- > >> > > >> >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >>Festival > >> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>--- > >> >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >>http://www.vintage.org > >> > > >> >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > >>Computers > >> ] > >> >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > >>http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >> > > >> > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! > >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From martinm at allwest.net Wed Mar 3 21:02:18 2004 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 Message-ID: <40469C3A.7010008@allwest.net> I have accumulated a couple of Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 "Hand Held Computer"s. For a description, see: http://members.cox.net/obsoletetechnology/Panasonic_HHC.html Searching has indicated that a ROM "capsule" containing a version of MicroSoft BASIC was available. Does anyone have one of these capsules, or a dump of a ROM that can be written to a new ROM? The computers that I have came from insurance agents and have insurance software on the ROMs that came with the computers. The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and appear to be UVEPROMs. Thank you, Martin Marshall From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Mar 3 22:43:52 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: <40469C3A.7010008@allwest.net> from Martin Marshall at "Mar 3, 4 08:02:18 pm" Message-ID: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> > Searching has indicated that a ROM "capsule" containing a version of > MicroSoft BASIC was available. Does anyone have one of these capsules, or > a dump of a ROM that can be written to a new ROM? The computers that I > have came from insurance agents and have insurance software on the ROMs > that came with the computers. > The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and appear to be UVEPROMs. You and the rest of the HHC community. I've got an HHC myself, and all mine has are the insurance EPROMs, too. I've done some snooping and found other HHC owners, and they're looking for these mythical BASIC ROMs just as feverishly! -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this pill. -- Mark Lowry -- From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 3 23:31:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Searching has indicated that a ROM "capsule" containing a version of > > MicroSoft BASIC was available. Does anyone have one of these capsules, or > > a dump of a ROM that can be written to a new ROM? The computers that I > > have came from insurance agents and have insurance software on the ROMs > > that came with the computers. > > The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and appear to be UVEPROMs. > > You and the rest of the HHC community. I've got an HHC myself, and all > mine has are the insurance EPROMs, too. I've done some snooping and found > other HHC owners, and they're looking for these mythical BASIC ROMs just > as feverishly! A few years ago I was heading up a bulk purchase of these things from a guy who acquired them from an insurance agency in Canada or something. We had a couple dozen units spoken for and then the seller pulled out. I forget what he ended up doing with them but I think he found a more lucrative avenue (eBay maybe). I wouldn't be surprised if the ones you have are from this guy, but then again the HHC was used in a lot of insurance applications, probably originating from the same company that modified them for actuarial operation and sold them off to various insurance agencies. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Mar 4 01:22:58 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F52@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Just my 2c. I repaired 2 H744's up till now. They are indeed an easy piece to work on. One had a defective rectifier bridge (the 1 x 1 inch square block with 4 terminals) and the other was more peculiar: one big electrolitic capacitor (AFAICR it is connected directly to the PCB, fixed with screws) made a short circuit between the housing of the capacitor and a trace on the board. The plastic insulation of the capacitor some how was that bad to allow the short circuit ...! success with your repairs, - Henk, PA8PDP > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad@heeltoe.com] > Sent: woensdag 3 maart 2004 22:39 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? > > > I finally got my TS11 racked this morning and after a good cleaning > found that it has no +5v. (I must say, I love DEC manuals...) > > Looks like the H744 supply is not working. Anyone know about these? > Are they easy to fix? Should I just pull it, find a schematic and > start probing? > > (anyone have one they want to part with? :-) > > thanks! > > -brad From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 4 02:07:19 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: Gooijen H "RE: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix?" (Mar 4, 8:22) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F52@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <10403040807.ZM18207@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 8:22, Gooijen H wrote: > I repaired 2 H744's up till now. > They are indeed an easy piece to work on. > One had a defective rectifier bridge (the 1 x 1 inch square > block with 4 terminals) and the other was more peculiar: > one big electrolitic capacitor (AFAICR it is connected > directly to the PCB, fixed with screws) made a short circuit > between the housing of the capacitor and a trace on the > board. The plastic insulation of the capacitor some how was > that bad to allow the short circuit ...! Hmmm... one of mine had a faulty rectifier too. Not hard to diagnose or replace, but I wonder if that's a common failure? Another one had a bad filter cap -- but it had died of age (leaked) rather than causing a short. Another common "problem" seems to be whistling from the coil, if it's begun to delaminate. Probably a sign of previously running hot, and not necessarily anything to worry about. Several of my "brick" PSUs had faulty bulbs, and I found the easiest way to fix that ws to replace the bulb with an LED and a resistor, as found on the later versions. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Mar 4 02:34:55 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8/A board info Message-ID: <1078389295.6155.3.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Hi, I'm trying to figure out what this board is/does. It's a DEC hex height board marked M8597A. On the back it's also marked PDP 8A Control. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Mar 4 02:42:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Quick question - mneng1.sys In-Reply-To: <200403040032.49299.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, meltie wrote: > Does anyone know of a copy of mneng1.sys (firmware for Decserver 90TL etc) > online? As in, available to download over ftp, for all the possible > pedants :) I do, will grab it and email it. --f From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 03:34:01 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 04 March 2004 00:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > > The old method for this is 'tighten until the CRT implodes, > then back off > quarter of a turn' :-). [Note : If you don't realise this is > a joke, then > you shouldn't be attempting a CRT replacement, OK!!!] Hehe! I've only ever decompressed one tube by trying to straighten a couple of the pins on the back. The sound of the air rushing in was quite disheartening :) > isn't in the M4, so there probably isn't in the M12 either -- > the CRT can > hold a charge for a lot longer than 'overnight'. Ah, I didn't know that - I thought they discharged naturally..... > and it may cause you to drop the CRT. I alwayse discharge a > CRT with my > EHT probe before handling it. I should really get hold of an EHT probe 'cos it would save a lot of waiting! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 03:35:47 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: Quick question - mneng1.sys In-Reply-To: <200403040032.49299.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 04 March 2004 00:33 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Quick question - mneng1.sys > > Hey guys! > > Does anyone know of a copy of mneng1.sys (firmware for > Decserver 90TL etc) online? As in, available to download over > ftp, for all the possible pedants :) I've got it here if you can't find it on ftp.digital.com. w From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Mar 4 03:35:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403040942.EAA12029@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> the CRT can hold a charge for a lot longer than 'overnight'. > Ah, I didn't know that - I thought they discharged naturally..... They do. But how fast "naturally" is depends on a lot of factors, everything from how dirty the tube's outer surface is to what the atmosphere is like. Some of these things you can't do much about. But some you can - for example, if you keep it in a humid environment, it will discharge faster. (Whether it will be fast enough for "overnight" to be safe, I don't know - my idea of "high voltage" generally starts somewhere around thirty or forty volts.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 4 05:55:42 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040304065542.0081bdd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Paul, Just contact me off-line and tell me what you need. I can make copies for you. You'll have to ask Al about his stuff. Your timing is great, I've been sorting out my Intel manuals for the last couple of days. Joe At 02:17 AM 3/4/04 +0000, you wrote: >Joe, >We solved the hardware portion of our problem and are now trying to resolve >some iRMX system issues. How do I get availability and price on some of the >Intel Manuels included in your list and that of Alossow's. >Paul Hirsch > > >>From: "Joe R." >>Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >>Posts" >>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >>Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:27:28 -0500 >> >>At 02:27 AM 2/28/04 +0000, you wrote: >> >Joe, >> >do you have part numbers on the booards you have? >> >Paul Hirsch >> >> >> Here is a link to a Multibus webpage that I've been working on. >>. MOST of the cards >>that I have are listed there along with descriptions, part numbers and >>pictures. It's still a work in progress so there are some missing bits and >>pieces and I still have a stack of cards to add to it. It seems like >>everytime I turn over a rock around here I find more Multibus stuff :-) >> >> FWIW I gutted* four Intel 86/330s a couple of years ago so I have all >>the >>cards for them. >> >> *Before anyone complains about me gutting vintage systems I'd like to >>point out that these had had the hard drives removed before I got them and >>I didn't have any Sw or docs for them and that I spent several months >>trying to track down the stuff before I gave up and stripped them. I posted >>several requests on this list and didn't get a single reply. >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> > >> >>From: "Joe R." >> >>Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >> >>Posts" >> >>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >> >> >>Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >> >>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:17:09 -0500 >> >> >> >>At 02:28 PM 2/27/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >> >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 >> >>Operating >> >> >> System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin >>booting >> >>and >> >> >> get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 >>procrsser, >> >>the >> >> >> 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of >> >>options >> >> >> unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has >>any >> >>advice >> >> >> I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that >>they >> >>would >> >> >> like to sell. >> >> > >> >> >Sounds like a software problem. >> >> > >> >> >What's an 86/330? >> >> >> >> Sounds like an Intel 86/330 computer (8086 CPU Multibus system). I >>have >> >>parts for them and I've already replied to him. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> > >> >> >-- >> >> > >> >> >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> >>Festival >> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--- >> >> >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> >>http://www.vintage.org >> >> > >> >> >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >> >>Computers >> >> ] >> >> >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >> >>http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________ >> >Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! >> >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ >> > >> > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! >(Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Mar 4 06:50:19 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher Message-ID: Hi all, Recently I found this really cute, but weird-looking thingie. It seems to be a handheld tool that allowed operators, field engineers and so on to manually punch a bit of code onto paper tape, or to modify (patch) an existing tape. It was made by, or distributed by "Data Processing Accessories" in the U.K. Ideas, anyone? --f From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 4 07:44:04 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: <10403040807.ZM18207@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F52@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040304074230.03bb9528@mail.ubanproductions.com> >Hmmm... one of mine had a faulty rectifier too. Not hard to diagnose >or replace, but I wonder if that's a common failure? Another one had a >bad filter cap -- but it had died of age (leaked) rather than causing a >short. Another common "problem" seems to be whistling from the coil, >if it's begun to delaminate. Probably a sign of previously running >hot, and not necessarily anything to worry about. Several of my >"brick" PSUs had faulty bulbs, and I found the easiest way to fix that >ws to replace the bulb with an LED and a resistor, as found on the >later versions. I've seen a number of the rectifiers fail, so I would concur that it is a common component to fail. Also, those supplies have always whistled, even when new from the factory. --tom From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Mar 4 08:09:42 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F52@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <16455.14502.145000.9265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H writes: Gooijen> success with your repairs, - Henk, PA8PDP Aardige roepletters! Ik wist niet dat de RCD tegenwoordig roepletters op verzoek leverde. paul, ni1d, ex-pa0pkg From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Mar 4 08:15:45 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher References: Message-ID: <16455.14865.375000.313228@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: Fred> Hi all, Recently I found this really cute, but weird-looking Fred> thingie. It seems to be a handheld tool that allowed operators, Fred> field engineers and so on to manually punch a bit of code onto Fred> paper tape, or to modify (patch) an existing tape. Fred> It was made by, or distributed by "Data Processing Accessories" Fred> in the U.K. Fred> Ideas, anyone? I remember those. >From what I remember, the more common use for those probably was splicing or repairing torn tape. If what you're talking about is the thing I saw, it's a metal base plate with a full set of holes, and a set of pins where the sprocket holes are. There are flip-down covers that hold tape onto the base plate. You can hold down a torn tape with the two ends lined up, then tape them together with special adhesive tape that's the width of regular paper tape, pre-punched with a full set of holes. You can then flip down the top lid, which has guide holes for a punch pin, and run the pin down the holes to clean up any overhang from the patching tape. And yes, if you need to make a change to a tape, you can do it with this as well, provided the change only requires adding holes, not subtracting them. (Well, I suppose you could subtract by taping pieces of solid tape over the spot to be changed, and re-punching the holes you want to keep. That requires using the right kind of tape -- a lot of adhesive tape is transparent, and that wouldn't work well at all for tape run through optical readers.) paul From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Mar 4 08:22:26 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F57@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Hello Paul, just to enable all readers to understand I'll answer in English. The "RCD" (say Dutch Radio Control Service) has changed their policy since Sept, 1st, 2003. You can get -if still available- within some restrictions (depends on the license) the call you like (for $$$). I had the C license, and wanted to "upgrade" from PE1CKF to PE1PDP, but I was studying for the morse exam. I passed the very last morse code exam last December, and changed the prefix also to reflect the A license that I now hold. For insiders: I hope to be QRV on HF in a few months, and what that makes special is that I use equipment from RACAL, no Japanese toys! What is RACAL? Check my home page on www.pdp-11.nl and on the opening page at the bottom right, click on the animated gear box ... 73, - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Koning [mailto:pkoning@equallogic.com] > Sent: donderdag 4 maart 2004 15:10 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? > > > >>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H writes: > > Gooijen> success with your repairs, - Henk, PA8PDP > > Aardige roepletters! Ik wist niet dat de RCD tegenwoordig roepletters > op verzoek leverde. > > paul, ni1d, ex-pa0pkg From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 4 08:21:03 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. Message-ID: <200403040921.03792.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Late last fall I asked about talking to the press, the story appeared today. http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=b5e1276c-930e-40d3-8f58-22dfdcac5b9c The pictures seem to be missing to non subscribers/or online front page: Metal rack with nabu box, VAX monitor, wall in background with ps2 rs6000 :Lisa inside: wall shot apples and clones : NeXT cube - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFARztPLPrIaE/xBZARAg0zAJ9WL4k1/Y5pfb9iJIcvd1f86oJV8QCfZ0QR MUEgoA4Y8RH0DzqtTQQH8+Y= =IZKu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vrs at msn.com Thu Mar 4 08:46:48 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: PDP-8/A board info References: <1078389295.6155.3.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: > I'm trying to figure out what this board is/does. It's a DEC hex height > board marked M8597A. On the back it's also marked PDP 8A Control. The "Option/Module Hardware List" (eoml-1991.06.13.pdf) says it is a "DX10 PDP8 Interface, 4 layer, hex". Hope that helps. Vince From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Mar 4 09:17:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi all, > > It was made by, or distributed by "Data Processing Accessories" > in the U.K. See the pics at http://www.microwalt.nl/fred/ptp_patch1.jpg and ... patch2.jpg. --f From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 4 09:28:38 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:15:01 GMT." Message-ID: <200403041528.i24FScS06461@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: > >Then check the chopper transistor, other transistors, etc. The IC -- a >good old 723 -- rarely fails unless there are other faults too. I could not find a schematic - do you have one? (I realize it's a straight forward switcher, but I like a picture :-) -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 4 09:35:11 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive "O" rings? Message-ID: <200403041535.i24FZBV06741@mwave.heeltoe.com> Any one have thoughts on 9-track tape drive "O" rings? The O ring on my TS-11 was under compression for some time and appears to have stretched to the point where it is too large to fit a tape on the hub. I'm guessing this is a common problem. I would think these O rings are pretty common. Does anyone have a source? -brad From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 4 09:49:30 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: <200403041528.i24FScS06461@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040304094652.021545a0@mail.ubanproductions.com> >I could not find a schematic - do you have one? (I realize it's a straight >forward switcher, but I like a picture :-) Here's a scan from the 11/45 engineering drawings which includes the H744: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/PDP-11-45/PDP-11-45%20system%20ED%20(H744-45-46-54%20&%20G772)%20part-g.tif --tom From vrs at msn.com Thu Mar 4 09:51:51 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? References: <200403041528.i24FScS06461@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: > >Then check the chopper transistor, other transistors, etc. The IC -- a > >good old 723 -- rarely fails unless there are other faults too. > > I could not find a schematic - do you have one? (I realize it's a straight > forward switcher, but I like a picture :-) Try page 216-H744 of http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/modules/KI10_moduleSchems_V1_Oct74.pdf HTH, Vince From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Mar 4 09:53:07 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: References: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040304105045.00ae2fc8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > Searching has indicated that a ROM "capsule" containing a version of > > > MicroSoft BASIC was available. Does anyone have one of these > capsules, or > > > a dump of a ROM that can be written to a new ROM? The computers that I > > > have came from insurance agents and have insurance software on the ROMs > > > that came with the computers. > > > The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and appear to be UVEPROMs. > > > > You and the rest of the HHC community. I've got an HHC myself, and all > > mine has are the insurance EPROMs, too. I actually have about 20 *pounds* of these eproms... and a "never tested" HHC myself. What I *do* have is a gizmothingy to fit these modules into a normal eprom programmer... somewhere... so if anyone can find the *source code* to the basic or anything else in a standard form, I can burn 'em... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 4 10:30:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <200403040942.EAA12029@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Some of these things you can't do much about. But some you can - for > example, if you keep it in a humid environment, it will discharge So, immersing it in a tub of water will discharge it right away, no? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 4 10:44:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: <200403040921.03792.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Mike wrote: > Late last fall I asked about talking to the press, the story appeared today. > > http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=b5e1276c-930e-40d3-8f58-22dfdcac5b9c That's a terrific article! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 11:31:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: <200403040921.03792.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: 04 March 2004 14:21 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: The story finally make the paper. > > Late last fall I asked about talking to the press, the story > appeared today. > > http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id= b5e1276c-930e-40d3-8f58-22dfdcac5b9c > > The pictures seem to be missing to non subscribers/or online > front page: Metal rack with nabu box, VAX monitor, wall in > background with ps2 rs6000 > :Lisa > inside: wall shot apples and clones > : NeXT cube Does that show that all journalists aren't clueless idiots? I think it does! Nice one! Hopefully my own appearance in a UK paper soon (it was supposed to be 2 weeks ago) will be similarly well written. They took enough bleedin' pictures, so watch it only be 2 paragraphs :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 11:32:38 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 04 March 2004 16:30 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > > So, immersing it in a tub of water will discharge it right away, no? > > :) THAT I'd like to see. >From a distance :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Mar 4 11:55:22 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive "O" rings? References: <200403041535.i24FZBV06741@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <000e01c40211$dde10df0$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Brad Parker" > > The O ring on my TS-11 .... I take it that you talk about the write protect ring on the back of the tape itself. I am happy to send you a few, if nobody nearer reacts (I am located in Denmark) Talking of tapes : It is my experience that some flanges are deformed after some/many years, so the flange scrapes along the drive. In this case, it is a good idea to take a ring, rip off the "lip" sticking out, putting the ring upside down on the tape, take another ring, rip the "lip" off, cut it, divide the ring into two half rings, and stick one half of the ring inside the other ring. This will lift the tape 1,5 to 2 mm (0,08" or so) which often is enough to remedy the scraping Nico From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Mar 4 12:01:56 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive "O" rings? In-Reply-To: <000e01c40211$dde10df0$2201a8c0@finans> References: <200403041535.i24FZBV06741@mwave.heeltoe.com> <000e01c40211$dde10df0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Brad Parker" > > > > The O ring on my TS-11 .... > > I take it that you talk about the write protect ring on the back of the tape > itself. Nope nope nope - like the Kennedy 9xxx series - the TS11 uses a large-ish neoprene o-ring, that is compressed in a slot by the action of the locking-lever... this o-ring expands into the inner area of the reel hub and wedges it to the locking hub. O-rings are very common at most larger auto-parts places (NAPA, AutoZone, Kragen, etc) - all you need is it's diameter and it should be easy to replace. Also, taking the hub is really easy - on my Kennedys, the assembly screw is under the locking lever, removong it allows the whole thing to comemoff and then you can R/R the o-ring. Cheers John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 4 12:23:29 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: "Witchy" "RE: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution" (Mar 4, 9:34) References: Message-ID: <10403041823.ZM18642@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 9:34, Witchy wrote: > > the CRT can hold a charge for a lot longer than 'overnight'. > > Ah, I didn't know that - I thought they discharged naturally..... > > > and it may cause you to drop the CRT. I alwayse discharge a > > CRT with my > > EHT probe before handling it. I'll second that. Not only do CRTs not discharge naturally (unless they're in circuit with a bleed resistor), a disconnected and supposedly-discharged CRT may develop a charge if left alone. The original EHT can force electrons into the glass, and since glass is an excellent insulator, they don't come out again immediately when you discharge the tube. They *may* come to the surface slowly later, and give the CRT a significant charge of opposite to the original polarity. So leave a bleed resistor across a tube you plan to store for a long period (tip given to me by a TV repairman). If you're discharging a recently-used tube, don't use a simple resistor. The EHT on a CRT could be anything from 8kV to several tens of kV in a fancy colour tube, and most common resistors have a breakdown voltage of only 500-1000V. Besides, think about the power dissipation if you discharge a 25kV tube through a 10M resistor: 2.5 milliamps, but 62 watts. Sure, that 62W won't last long, but neither the tube nor your resistor will like it! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 4 12:32:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: Roger Merchberger "Re: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400" (Mar 4, 10:53) References: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040304105045.00ae2fc8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <10403041832.ZM18651@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 10:53, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and appear to be UVEPROMs. > > > > > > You and the rest of the HHC community. I've got an HHC myself, and all > > > mine has are the insurance EPROMs, too. > > I actually have about 20 *pounds* of these eproms... Fancy parting with a few? They're 24-pin 8Kx8, which makes them particularly useful for some DEC boot ROMs (which is the only place I've seen them before). They fit *my* programmer :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 4 12:25:31 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "Re: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix?" (Mar 4, 7:44) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F52@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <5.2.0.9.0.20040304074230.03bb9528@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10403041825.ZM18645@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 7:44, Tom Uban wrote: > I've seen a number of the rectifiers fail, so I would concur that it > is a common component to fail. Also, those supplies have always > whistled, even when new from the factory. Well, I've seen a few that don't whistle, and I don't really think they should; the coil laminations are supposed to be glued together and encapsulated. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Mar 4 12:49:33 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:31:54 GMT." Message-ID: <200403041849.SAA18129@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Witchy" said: > Nice one! Hopefully my own appearance in a UK paper soon (it was supposed to > be 2 weeks ago) will be similarly well written. They took enough bleedin' > pictures, so watch it only be 2 paragraphs :) Which paper? I might break one of my rules and buy a copy! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Mar 4 12:47:06 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:22:26 +0100." <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F57@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <200403041847.SAA18065@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Gooijen H said: > For insiders: I hope to be QRV on HF in a few months, and what that > makes special is that I use equipment from RACAL, no Japanese toys! I've got a RA-1792 and RA-17 racked up together, but no companion tx (yet...). Real radios :-) The main rig is a Ten-Tec Corsair (American...). I'll listen out for you. -- Cheers and 73, Stan Barr G0CLV G-QRP 3369 g0clv@dial.pipex.com "Never leave well enough alone." - Raymond Loewy From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 13:15:23 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: <200403041849.SAA18129@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Stan Barr > Sent: 04 March 2004 18:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: The story finally make the paper. > > Hi, > > "Witchy" said: > > > Nice one! Hopefully my own appearance in a UK paper soon (it was > > supposed to be 2 weeks ago) will be similarly well written. > They took enough bleedin' > > pictures, so watch it only be 2 paragraphs :) > > Which paper? I might break one of my rules and buy a copy! It's the Independent on Saturday - they have a glossy inside that appears to focus on collectability every week, though last week's said the mag was in but the distributors forgot to include it! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From redodd at comcast.net Thu Mar 4 13:14:13 2004 From: redodd at comcast.net (Ralph E. Dodd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution - Now I need help with 8" drives Message-ID: <004301c4021c$e2ad13f0$6401a8c0@mainpc> Thanks to all who replied to the crt problem. The crt from the TRS-80 Model 4 was a perfect replacement for the Model 12. Now I have 2 - 8" Tandon thinline TM848E dsdd drives that have problems (in the Model 12). Drive 0 (lets call it A) used to work fine but now all it does is blink (the red busy led). 3 blinks followed by 1 blink or maybe it's 1 blink followed by 3 blinks, hard to tell. Drive 1 (call it B) always made noise and wasn't as reliable as A. I took A out, made B drive 0 and installed the resistor pack. Now B won't boot, I get to "initializing" and then I get a seek error. I have an original TRSDOS 2.0b disk and a copy and both used to work. Both get the same error. The drives have what I am going to call a logic board that's easy to remove. It has the drive and power connectors on it. I've tried every combination of mixing drives and logic boards but I still get the same errors. Does this blinking make sense to anyone and can I cure the seek errors on the other drive? Thanks again for listening to my ranting. Ralph From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 4 13:33:35 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: <10403041825.ZM18645@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F52@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <5.2.0.9.0.20040304074230.03bb9528@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040304133254.03bbc008@mail.ubanproductions.com> >Well, I've seen a few that don't whistle, and I don't really think they >should; the coil laminations are supposed to be glued together and >encapsulated. I'm not convinced that it is the coil, but rather the cans on the large drive transistors. --tom From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 4 13:46:00 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040304114023.Q91745@newshell.lmi.net> > > Some of these things you can't do much about. But some you can - for > > example, if you keep it in a humid environment, it will discharge On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > So, immersing it in a tub of water will discharge it right away, no? Would a shower do? Or does it have to be submerged? Since all of the vacuum in it will make it float, do you get in the tub with it to hold it under? Or do you let the vacuum out of it first? The cord on the monitor is too short to reach the tub; what guage extension cord do you need? Got .JPGs? From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 4 13:52:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 References: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040304105045.00ae2fc8@mail.30below.com> <10403041832.ZM18651@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000e01c40222$374db680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Fancy parting with a few? They're 24-pin 8Kx8, which makes > them particularly useful for some DEC boot ROMs Spit out some part numbers for compatible EPROMs and I'll check my cache of pulls for you. John A. From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 4 15:00:45 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive "O" rings? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:55:22 +0100." <000e01c40211$dde10df0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Nico de Jong" wrote: >From: "Brad Parker" >> >> The O ring on my TS-11 .... > >I take it that you talk about the write protect ring on the back of the tape >itself. I am happy to send you a few, if nobody nearer reacts (I am located in >Denmark) Sorry, no. I mean the rubber "O" ring on the hub - the one that gets compressed and holds the tape reel on the hub. -brad From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Mar 4 15:18:35 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: <10403041832.ZM18651@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040304105045.00ae2fc8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040304161115.04859678@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Pete Turnbull may have mentioned these words: >Fancy parting with a few? They're 24-pin 8Kx8, which makes them >particularly useful for some DEC boot ROMs (which is the only place >I've seen them before). They fit *my* programmer :-) How many you need? It'll take me a few days to find 'em & pack 'em... Did you want them erased? It would take me a few more days to find my external programmer w/builtin UV eraser... [[ I'm assuming you know that the ROMs are fitted into this really weird upside-down keyed carrier thingamajig... something *very* similar was also used in the Tandy Model 100/102/200 line, except they were 28-pin instead of 24, as they were 32kx8... those are even *harder* to find than the 8K 24pin variety, at least in my experience... ]] On-topic, but off *this* topic: If you're looking for 28-pin software modules for the Kyocera OEMmed line (Model 'T's & the like) they can be ordered from Rick Hanson at www.club100.org -> they're called MOMBO modules, and he can program them for whatever you need... They're SMD Flash chips soldered to a custom carrier that fits in the socket... Rick's a great guy... known him for years... He's supported the Model 'T's for 2 decades now... stop by (virtually or in person ;-) and say hi. Tell him "Merch" sent ya... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Mar 4 15:19:48 2004 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: <200403040921.03792.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200403040921.03792.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040304161711.01ccaea0@smtp.wincom.net> At 09:21 AM 04/03/2004, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Late last fall I asked about talking to the press, the story appeared today. > >http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=b5e1276c-930e-40d3-8f58-22dfdcac5b9c > Very good, Mike. Down here in Windsor we are finally getting our science center and I have managed to get a few old computers on display. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From lists at microvax.org Thu Mar 4 15:36:10 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> Hi guys - another quickie :) Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI cable around that they'd be willing to part with for a small amount of beer tokens? I want to use my AUI <-> 10bT tranciever with my 4000/200 but I can't get the cover on with it connected directly to the AUI port. TIA! alex/melt From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 4 15:29:40 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: 8Kx8 EPROMs -- was Re: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400" (Mar 4, 14:52) References: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040304105045.00ae2fc8@mail.30below.com> <10403041832.ZM18651@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <000e01c40222$374db680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10403042129.ZM18761@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 14:52, John Allain wrote: [ about Motorola MCM68764 EPROMs ] > > Fancy parting with a few? They're 24-pin 8Kx8, which makes > > them particularly useful for some DEC boot ROMs > > Spit out some part numbers for compatible EPROMs and > I'll check my cache of pulls for you. Thank you. Trouble is, I don't know of any equivalent EPROMs, except the Motorola MCM68766 and SCM90448 ;-) All the other 8Kx8 EPROMs I know are 28-pin. While I remember, does anyone know what DEC ROMs 23-398E4 and 23-399E4 are? They're in Motorola SCM90448Cs, which is what reminded me. I can't remember what they came out of; possibly a PDT. Anyone know about 23-126E4 and 23-127E4 (mask ROMs)? Does anyone have any KDF11-B or KDJ11-B boot ROMs I could add to my collecton? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Mar 4 15:54:50 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Mar 4, 4 08:44:28 am" Message-ID: <200403042154.NAA16782@floodgap.com> > > Late last fall I asked about talking to the press, the story appeared today. > > > > http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=b5e1276c-930e-40d3-8f58-22dfdcac5b9c > > That's a terrific article! Yes, it is! I like the blurb about the C64 at the near end of it myself. :) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In the end, everything is alright. -- Sarah Goldfarb, "Requiem for a Dream" From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Mar 4 15:44:23 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <006c01c40231$dbc7bd50$5b01a8c0@athlon> > to use my AUI <-> 10bT tranciever with my 4000/200 but I > can't get the > cover on with it connected directly to the AUI port. I assume that means you want a right angle connector and not the straight one ... but you need to be clearer. They come in preset lengths too, although that probably matters less for you. FWIW I always ran the VAX 4000s in the lab without the doors attached (much easier to fiddle with them that way). Removing and reattaching the doors is pretty straightforward. In the (unlikely?) event that you have a rack unit, you can deskin two VAX 4000s and mount them "back to back" in a normal rack to produce a neat compact cluster. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From terryf at intersurf.com Thu Mar 4 15:54:32 2004 From: terryf at intersurf.com (terryf@intersurf.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20040304215432.50102.qmail@alex.intersurf.net> Hello; I have been a member of this group for several years, although not really contributing anything to it. Now, here's my chance, take a look at www.ccompforum.com and tell me what you think. Its free, belongs to me, and is offered as an addition to the resources of this group, for this group. For you test-based folks, it has full email->forum and forum->email capabilities. Thanks for looking Terry Freeman terryf@cox.net terryf@intersurf.com From lists at microvax.org Thu Mar 4 16:18:27 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <006c01c40231$dbc7bd50$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <006c01c40231$dbc7bd50$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200403042218.27428.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 04 March 2004 21:44, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > to use my AUI <-> 10bT tranciever with my 4000/200 but I > > can't get the > > cover on with it connected directly to the AUI port. > > I assume that means you want a right angle connector and > not the straight one ... but you need to be clearer. > They come in preset lengths too, although that probably > matters less for you. Ah, I thought about that but having had a quick by-eye measurement I thought i'd get away with a normal one. No? Back into the realms of specialist DEC cables then :( alex/melt From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Mar 4 16:34:55 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20040304215432.50102.qmail@alex.intersurf.net> Message-ID: <00a201c40238$eec33090$947ba8c0@p933> Hello Terry, It's a nice setup and I wish you luck. You've applied some nice mods to the base PHPBB package. Please check out www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum if you get a chance. It seems like we've had similar ideas. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of terryf@intersurf.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: (no subject) Hello; I have been a member of this group for several years, although not really contributing anything to it. Now, here's my chance, take a look at www.ccompforum.com and tell me what you think. Its free, belongs to me, and is offered as an addition to the resources of this group, for this group. For you test-based folks, it has full email->forum and forum->email capabilities. Thanks for looking Terry Freeman terryf@cox.net terryf@intersurf.com From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Mar 4 16:41:37 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <4047B0A1.5060806@gifford.co.uk> meltie wrote: > Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI cable around that > they'd be willing to part with for a small amount of beer tokens? I can do you an AUI cable, but it'd be a "normal", non-right-angle one. Let me know if that'd be OK. Send clearance dimensions if you can! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From lists at microvax.org Thu Mar 4 16:57:10 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <4047B0A1.5060806@gifford.co.uk> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> <4047B0A1.5060806@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200403042257.10636.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 04 March 2004 22:41, John Honniball wrote: > meltie wrote: > > Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI cable around > > that they'd be willing to part with for a small amount of beer tokens? > > I can do you an AUI cable, but it'd be a "normal", non-right-angle one. > Let me know if that'd be OK. Send clearance dimensions if you can! After a quick look, it's around 4.2 - 4.3 cm...Is it doable? TIA alex/melt From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Mar 4 16:58:43 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042257.10636.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <007101c4023c$3dd3cac0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > After a quick look, it's around 4.2 - 4.3 cm...Is it doable? My recollection is that if you want the door to shut you need the right-angle variant. This would have been with a VAX 4000-300 and VAX 4000-500 style CPU cover in a BA4xx but I expect that a a VAX 4000-200 in a BA430(?) or a BA200-series cab would have a similar requirement. You don't want the cable to be squashed (apart from anything it might do to the cable, it won't do the flimsy door catch any good!) Sadly, I don't think I have a right-angled one any more. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 17:15:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 04 March 2004 21:36 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: AUI cables in UK? > > Hi guys - another quickie :) > > Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI > cable around that they'd be willing to part with for a small > amount of beer tokens? I want to use my AUI <-> 10bT > tranciever with my 4000/200 but I can't get the cover on with > it connected directly to the AUI port. You need a right-angle job to do that. Since you can get the front panel on otherwise I'd think you were lucky to get the correct power cable for it too :) I know I've got a load of right-angle DSSI cables but I'm not sure on AUI stuff. I'll have a look when I get the chance.... Cheers w From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 4 17:16:00 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: meltie "Re: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 4, 22:57) References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> <4047B0A1.5060806@gifford.co.uk> <200403042257.10636.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 22:57, meltie wrote: > On Thursday 04 March 2004 22:41, John Honniball wrote: > > meltie wrote: > > > Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI cable around > > > that they'd be willing to part with for a small amount of beer tokens? > > > > I can do you an AUI cable, but it'd be a "normal", non-right-angle one. > > Let me know if that'd be OK. Send clearance dimensions if you can! > > After a quick look, it's around 4.2 - 4.3 cm...Is it doable? There's no way a standard-grade blue AUI cable will turn through 90 in less than 15 cm. It might just be doable with an office-grade cable. They tend to be thinner and more flexible than the proper thick blue ones. Or you could remove the cover and fit a right-angle cover, probably. You could certainly do that with an office-grade cable -- I used to have one like that. I seem to remember having a genuine DEC beige transceiver, about twice the size of the minature Allied Telesyn ones that are so common, which had the AUI connector on the side instead of the end. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Mar 4 17:21:50 2004 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:54 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: <200403041847.SAA18065@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200403041847.SAA18065@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <4047BA0E.30101@arrl.net> Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > Gooijen H said: > > >>For insiders: I hope to be QRV on HF in a few months, and what that >>makes special is that I use equipment from RACAL, no Japanese toys! > > > I've got a RA-1792 and RA-17 racked up together, but no companion tx > (yet...). Real radios :-) > ohhh.. I'd nearly forgotten about my RA17. It smoked when last powered up (about 12 yrs ago) and was relegated to the closet. I need to resurrect that, its too nice-looking a rig to be languishing in there. -nick o From lists at microvax.org Thu Mar 4 17:42:35 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042257.10636.lists@microvax.org> <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200403042342.35921.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 04 March 2004 23:16, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 4, 22:57, meltie wrote: > > On Thursday 04 March 2004 22:41, John Honniball wrote: > > > meltie wrote: > > > > Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI cable > > around > > > > > that they'd be willing to part with for a small amount of beer > > tokens? > > > > I can do you an AUI cable, but it'd be a "normal", non-right-angle > > one. > > > > Let me know if that'd be OK. Send clearance dimensions if you can! > > > > After a quick look, it's around 4.2 - 4.3 cm...Is it doable? > > There's no way a standard-grade blue AUI cable will turn through 90 in > less than 15 cm. It might just be doable with an office-grade cable. > They tend to be thinner and more flexible than the proper thick blue > ones. Or you could remove the cover and fit a right-angle cover, > probably. You could certainly do that with an office-grade cable -- I > used to have one like that. > > I seem to remember having a genuine DEC beige transceiver, about twice > the size of the minature Allied Telesyn ones that are so common, which > had the AUI connector on the side instead of the end. Ah well, i'll be going down to the local Maplin* at some point to get the bits together to make one up, less the special cable-locks... cheers anyway alex/melt *or not, as they're stopping selling components... From terryf at cox.net Thu Mar 4 17:59:48 2004 From: terryf at cox.net (terryf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <00a201c40238$eec33090$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: Erik: Similar indeed. Your site is impressive no doubt. My aim is more at systems before "home" computers as we know them. I'm not into a large busy site, more of a quiet niche site for "real oldies", ie... IBM, UNIVAC, VAX mainframes etc., with an occasional Altair, Imsai, early TRS-80, or maybe even a Comodore PET thrown in for good measure. Terry -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: (no subject) Hello Terry, It's a nice setup and I wish you luck. You've applied some nice mods to the base PHPBB package. Please check out www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum if you get a chance. It seems like we've had similar ideas. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of terryf@intersurf.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: (no subject) Hello; I have been a member of this group for several years, although not really contributing anything to it. Now, here's my chance, take a look at www.ccompforum.com and tell me what you think. Its free, belongs to me, and is offered as an addition to the resources of this group, for this group. For you test-based folks, it has full email->forum and forum->email capabilities. Thanks for looking Terry Freeman terryf@cox.net terryf@intersurf.com From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Mar 4 18:22:20 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please post a picture. I used a hand punch during the summer of 73-74. Was a real "junkie" then. Did not have access to any hardware for a two week period during a shutdown, but wanted to be ready when they re-opened. Ahhh the joys (insanity?) of youth! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. >>> van Kempen >>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:50 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Recently I found this really cute, but weird-looking >>> thingie. It seems to be a handheld tool that allowed >>> operators, field engineers and so on to manually punch a >>> bit of code onto paper tape, or to modify (patch) an existing tape. >>> >>> It was made by, or distributed by "Data Processing Accessories" >>> in the U.K. >>> >>> Ideas, anyone? >>> >>> --f >>> From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Mar 4 18:23:06 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <16455.14865.375000.313228@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: Ps: does anyone have some of the adhesive papertape patches? Willing to sell a few? Used to love bring them out (late '70s early 80s ) to a job candidate, and asking if they knew what they were. Had a box of them until my last move 2 years ago...now cand find them.... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning >>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:16 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher >>> >>> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: >>> >>> Fred> Hi all, Recently I found this really cute, but >>> weird-looking Fred> thingie. It seems to be a handheld >>> tool that allowed operators, Fred> field engineers and so >>> on to manually punch a bit of code onto Fred> paper tape, >>> or to modify (patch) an existing tape. >>> >>> Fred> It was made by, or distributed by "Data Processing >>> Accessories" >>> Fred> in the U.K. >>> >>> Fred> Ideas, anyone? >>> >>> I remember those. >>> >>> >From what I remember, the more common use for those probably was >>> splicing or repairing torn tape. If what you're talking >>> about is the thing I saw, it's a metal base plate with a >>> full set of holes, and a set of pins where the sprocket >>> holes are. There are flip-down covers that hold tape onto >>> the base plate. You can hold down a torn tape with the two >>> ends lined up, then tape them together with special >>> adhesive tape that's the width of regular paper tape, >>> pre-punched with a full set of holes. You can then flip >>> down the top lid, which has guide holes for a punch pin, >>> and run the pin down the holes to clean up any overhang >>> from the patching tape. >>> >>> And yes, if you need to make a change to a tape, you can do >>> it with this as well, provided the change only requires >>> adding holes, not subtracting them. (Well, I suppose you >>> could subtract by taping pieces of solid tape over the spot >>> to be changed, and re-punching the holes you want to keep. >>> That requires using the right kind of tape -- a lot of >>> adhesive tape is transparent, and that wouldn't work well >>> at all for tape run through optical readers.) >>> >>> paul >>> From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Mar 4 18:26:33 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually that depends....... If the tube is PERFECTLY clean, and the water is distilled, and NO contaminants have entered from any source then the answer is a resounding NO! Of course it is practically impossible to achieve these conditions..... I (when MUCH younger) did a simple test. Put two electrodes into a container of distilled water. Measure the current flow..... Under the best of cirsumstances I was able to get about 3 minutes of negligable current flow. Then it would rise rapidly until if popped a breaker, blew a fuse, generated smoke (burning wires), or exploded ( Do NOT drop a pinch of salt into the water while running this experiment.......) If fact if you are at all sane, do not attempt this experiment at all!!!!!!!! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:30 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution >>> >>> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, der Mouse wrote: >>> >>> > Some of these things you can't do much about. But some >>> you can - for >>> > example, if you keep it in a humid environment, it will discharge >>> >>> So, immersing it in a tub of water will discharge it right away, no? >>> >>> :) >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Mar 4 18:34:33 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403050045.TAA22587@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I (when MUCH younger) did a simple test. Put two electrodes into a > container of distilled water. Measure the current flow..... > Under the best of cirsumstances I was able to get about 3 minutes of > negligable current flow. Then it would rise rapidly until if popped > a breaker, blew a fuse, generated smoke (burning wires), or exploded > ( Do NOT drop a pinch of salt into the water while running this > experiment.......) Interesting. I have a humidifier that, as far as I can tell, works by running mains current through tap water to heat it up to boiling. I've opened it up and looked, and, electrically, that's all there is to it: just two long metal electrodes connected to the mains, dipped into the water. Works well for its design purpose. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 18:52:52 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 04 March 2004 23:16 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: AUI cables in UK? > > There's no way a standard-grade blue AUI cable will turn > through 90 in less than 15 cm. It might just be doable with > an office-grade cable. Blue? I've never seen a blue AUI cable! Then again I only worked with moulded DEC ones so I dunno about 3rd party products :) > I seem to remember having a genuine DEC beige transceiver, > about twice the size of the minature Allied Telesyn ones that > are so common, which had the AUI connector on the side > instead of the end. That'll be a DESTA then - Ethernet STation Adapter. I used 'em to run entire offices off a DELNI when really I probably should've been using a DEMPR or DESPR (multi-port or single-port repeater). No problems though so hey-ho :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 18:54:10 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042342.35921.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 04 March 2004 23:43 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: AUI cables in UK? > > *or not, as they're stopping selling components... Oh *great*. Then again I've been using Farnell lately so sod 'em :) w From david_comley at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 18:54:53 2004 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M980 PROM Programmer manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040305005453.69087.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> Sellam, If there's any chance of a scan I would be interested. I have one of these minus documentation. -Dave --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Yo Joe! > > I finally found this. Is this the manual you were > needing? Still need > a copy/scan? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 4 17:37:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 4, 4 09:34:01 am Message-ID: > > isn't in the M4, so there probably isn't in the M12 either -- > > the CRT can > > hold a charge for a lot longer than 'overnight'. > > Ah, I didn't know that - I thought they discharged naturally..... Rememebr that the dielectric (insulator) in this capacitor is the glass of the CRT itself. And that glass is a darn good insulator. I suspect that most of the leakage occurs via dirt on the surface of the CRT (forming a conducting path between the anode connector and the outer coating), via atmospheric moisture, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 4 18:56:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <10403041823.ZM18642@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 4, 4 06:23:29 pm Message-ID: > If you're discharging a recently-used tube, don't use a simple > resistor. The EHT on a CRT could be anything from 8kV to several tens Indeed. COnsider several resistors in series -- 50 - 100 1M in series would seem to be OK. A recomended way of mounting them is to 'wind' the chain round a plastic strip. That way, points at very different votlages are kept apart. > of kV in a fancy colour tube, and most common resistors have a > breakdown voltage of only 500-1000V. Besides, think about the power > dissipation if you discharge a 25kV tube through a 10M resistor: 2.5 > milliamps, but 62 watts. Sure, that 62W won't last long, but neither > the tube nor your resistor will like it! > Hmm.. I would be suprised if the capacitance of the average CRT was more than 110pF (I've never measured it, though). Which, using E=1/2*C*V^2, would give the stored energy as 31.25mJ at 25kV EHT. That is not going to damage any normal resistor. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 4 18:47:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Mar 4, 4 01:50:19 pm Message-ID: > > Hi all, > > Recently I found this really cute, but weird-looking thingie. It > seems to be a handheld tool that allowed operators, field engineers Such things are actually (were actually?) quite common. A little jig to hold the tape and 2 different diameter punch pins (one for data holes, one for sprocket holes) to make corrections. Some of them could also be used to hold 2 pieces of tape which had to be spliced together. There were special adhesive tape 'patches' that were used for this -- punched with a complete set of data and sprocket holes. You used tohse in the obvious way to join the tape. Incidentally, if you have to splice paper tape and don't have the right jig, it's worth remembering that the holes are on a 0.1" by 0.1" matrix and that a piece of stripboard with some pins soldered into it will often work :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 4 18:49:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? In-Reply-To: <200403041528.i24FScS06461@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 4, 4 10:28:38 am Message-ID: > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > >Then check the chopper transistor, other transistors, etc. The IC -- a > >good old 723 -- rarely fails unless there are other faults too. > > I could not find a schematic - do you have one? (I realize it's a straight > forward switcher, but I like a picture :-) The schematic of this PSU block has been printed in many field maintenance printsets -- I normally use the one in the 11/45 printset. So yes, I do have the schematics. What I don't have is a scanner, so it's not going to be easy to get them to you. Are they not on the web somewhere -- I can't believe that none of the scanned printsets out there include this PSU. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 4 19:09:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M980 PROM Programmer manual In-Reply-To: <20040305005453.69087.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, David Comley wrote: > If there's any chance of a scan I would be interested. I have one of > these minus documentation. I'm not able to do a scan but if someone else would like to do so then I can send the manual to them for scanning. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 19:23:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <200403050045.TAA22587@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of der Mouse > Sent: 05 March 2004 00:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > > just two long metal electrodes connected to the mains, dipped > into the water. Works well for its design purpose. Haven't you just described a kettle? :) w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 4 19:27:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 05 March 2004 00:56 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > > Indeed. COnsider several resistors in series -- 50 - 100 1M > in series would seem to be OK. A recomended way of mounting > them is to 'wind' the chain round a plastic strip. That way, > points at very different votlages are kept apart. So I can make a discharger with some resistors and a bit of plastic? Sounds very Blue Peter (UK kids after-school TV show) :o) What's the best way of getting a probe under the rubber hood on the HT lead to discharge the tube? w From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Mar 4 19:27:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403050128.UAA22974@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> just two long metal electrodes connected to the mains, dipped into >> the water. > Haven't you just described a kettle? :) Not quite. Most electric kettles have a resistive heating element in _thermal_, not _electrical_, contact with the water. That's why they can burn out, after all. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From marvin at rain.org Thu Mar 4 19:30:57 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: New Finds Message-ID: <4047D851.43604559@rain.org> As quite a few people are aware, I tend to *really* like documentation and books. Today was a good day for that as I acquired part of the library from someone who had died a few years ago and was into computers. The computer related books ranged from the 50's to the early 80's. A couple of books I had not seen but look to be very interesting are: The Computer from Pascal to von Neumann - Goldstine The Analytical Engine - Bernstein Sequential Machine: Selected Papers - Moore There were quite a few books on software design, digital hardware design, analog and hybrid computer design, compter logical design, operating systems (including Tanenbaum), etc. This is enough to keep me busy for a while checking them out :). Unfortunately, an H-89 had already been recycled but there is still the possibility that the manuals, etc. are still around. After I cull out the books I want, I'll list them on the Computer Marketplace. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Mar 4 19:29:22 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <200403050133.UAA23022@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I want to use my AUI <-> 10bT tranciever with my 4000/200 but I can't > get the cover on with it connected directly to the AUI port. Provided the wire is short, you don't need a pukka cable. I once built an AUI cable from two DB15 connectors and about eight inches of random 15-pin ribbon cable I had lying around. (I first tried it with some six or eight feet of the same ribbon cable, but the error rate was insane. But six to eight inches is short enough that at 10Mb speeds the impedance bump becomes invisible.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From martinm at allwest.net Thu Mar 4 19:40:48 2004 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 References: <200403040443.UAA14338@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <4047DAA0.4020008@allwest.net> >>Searching has indicated that a ROM "capsule" containing a version of >>MicroSoft BASIC was available. Does anyone have one of these capsules, or >>a dump of a ROM that can be written to a new ROM? The computers that I >>have came from insurance agents and have insurance software on the ROMs >>that came with the computers. >>The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and appear to be UVEPROMs. > > > You and the rest of the HHC community. I've got an HHC myself, and all > mine has are the insurance EPROMs, too. I've done some snooping and found > other HHC owners, and they're looking for these mythical BASIC ROMs just > as feverishly! > OK, this raises the question. Is there any _proof_ that these ROMs were ever produced? Has anyone ever actually _seen_ one of these? Thanks, Martin From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 4 19:54:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: New Finds Today Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040304205416.008c9420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Went scrounging today and found a BIG pile of computers. MANY Dell PCs and a lot of IBM Power PCs. Brought home some of the PCs to check out and found that they all have P-III CPUs and ranged from 500 to 866 MHz. Some even had CD-RW drives! More interesting finds included two HP 9836Cs (the color version of the 9836), a HP 9000 380 (Probably top of the line for the HP 9000 200/300 series), a Sun Ultra 1 Creator 3D, a >>Hyundai<< Sparc model HWS-S310 (I had no idea Hyundai built andything like this!), a Matrox Shark 10/100/FX Ethernet switch, a SUN SparcStation 20, a HP drive array with hotswap drives, and one old PC with a very strange looking card in it. I'm going back tomorrow and pulling parts from the PCs that I didn't take. They're all going to a steel scrapper so I'm free to take anything that I want from them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 4 19:57:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M980 PROM Programmer manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040304205721.0083a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Sellam, I finally found mine. But hold onto your's and let me pull mine out sometime in the next couple of days and see if they're the same thing. Joe At 05:00 PM 3/3/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Yo Joe! > >I finally found this. Is this the manual you were needing? Still need >a copy/scan? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 19:50:42 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: New Finds Today References: <3.0.6.32.20040304205416.008c9420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001701c40254$46650330$b4db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi Joe, Cool finds! Wish I could get down there for a few P3 systems. Faster than anything I have here. Any chance you could grab be a fast one (or two... ) for me and maybe some sdram sticks and a few IDEs? How'd the radio rallly go? Oh, that Hyundai Sparc.... Sparc archetecture was open source from the start and a few companies made some early Sparc machines.. neat find. Cheers - Mike > Went scrounging today and found a BIG pile of computers. MANY Dell PCs > and a lot of IBM Power PCs. Brought home some of the PCs to check out and > found that they all have P-III CPUs and ranged from 500 to 866 MHz. Some > even had CD-RW drives! More interesting finds included two HP 9836Cs (the > color version of the 9836), a HP 9000 380 (Probably top of the line for the > HP 9000 200/300 series), a Sun Ultra 1 Creator 3D, a >>Hyundai<< Sparc > model HWS-S310 (I had no idea Hyundai built andything like this!), a Matrox > Shark 10/100/FX Ethernet switch, a SUN SparcStation 20, a HP drive array > with hotswap drives, and one old PC with a very strange looking card in it. > I'm going back tomorrow and pulling parts from the PCs that I didn't take. > They're all going to a steel scrapper so I'm free to take anything that I > want from them. > > Joe From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 4 15:06:24 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: References: from "Witchy" at Mar 4, 4 09:34:01 am Message-ID: <20040305020538.LIUQ23746.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > isn't in the M4, so there probably isn't in the M12 either -- > > > the CRT can > > > hold a charge for a lot longer than 'overnight'. > > > > Ah, I didn't know that - I thought they discharged naturally..... > > Rememebr that the dielectric (insulator) in this capacitor is the glass > of the CRT itself. And that glass is a darn good insulator. I suspect > that most of the leakage occurs via dirt on the surface of the CRT > (forming a conducting path between the anode connector and the outer > coating), via atmospheric moisture, etc. > > -tony I can confirm that glass is very good insulator too. Mere dirt even greasy smear even a incomplete air-seal (HV cup) is enough for HV to escape with a (SNAP!, crackling or hissssing). Even a tight pinhole in rubber/silicon/plastic insulations that can hold back water didn't stop HV's dramatic exit. That one I had one, had to find it with HV probe waving around each HV cup (three in a set for projector and that particular set has secondary HV hat loosely placed over each HV cup and kept in place by wedge force) till I see some deflection from that analog meter. The pinhole wasn't easy to see, had to take it apart and finally found the burn spot on the metal HV clip that matched a microsopic pinhole in the rubber cup. Oh, as other have said about the "power" of the HV it is very powerful enough to "eat" through if insulations has flaws in it. I see this often in flyback transformers & botched HV splitter installions. One time I seen "tufts" of impossibly fine magnet wires for HV stuck out of crack encircling flyback's round body where flyback transformer housing split open with a BANG according to owner whom heard the noise. For this reason, manufacture of HV stuff had to be super clean and quality stuff, HV resistors, caps, diodes, very carefully manufacturing steps, vacuum vessel to "boil" potted units prior to curing. That's the reason for not filling potting stuff to the brim. It's below the rim of housings about 1cm depth. Deduced from my reasonings. 33 to 35KV is "asolute" max for consumer stuff including projectors. Anybody care to raise reason behind this HV "wall"? Not just for x-ray reasons. I use is I think 180 Ohm 20W sandbar resistor for both HV and main filter caps as discharger. Much gentler on stuff and sanity. Cheers, Wizard From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 20:10:18 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher Message-ID: <20040305021018.96731.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> www.westnc.com has these patches. I've been thinking about getting some - but the tool is fairly expensive for hobby purposes. And on that subject, wow, is mylar tape getting expensive! ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Mar 4 20:41:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <20040305021018.96731.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040305021018.96731.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040305024117.GB6798@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 06:10:18PM -0800, Loboyko Steve wrote: > www.westnc.com has these patches. I've been thinking > about getting some - but the tool is fairly expensive > for hobby purposes. And on that subject, wow, is mylar > tape getting expensive! I'm glad I have some from when I first got into PDP-8s... I think I paid $0.25 / roll for it at a local surplus house. The thing is, I haven't used much of it - I was told that you want to use a special punch that won't dull as fast as a punch designed for paper, and I primarily use a PC04 on my -8/L which wants fan-fold paper tape (which I have a few boxes of) The only reason I'd have to use mylar tape is probably a heavily-used program that I wanted to read on an ASR-33 (like the bin loader or something) I have to admit that a 300cps optical reader has spoiled me. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-Mar-2004 02:29 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.9 F (-43.8 C) Windchill -109.1 F (-78.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.8 kts Grid 015 Barometer 677.1 mb (10735. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 4 20:47:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: absurd.org Message-ID: -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Mar 4 20:52:03 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution References: Message-ID: <001501c4025c$d6d38650$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> heh heh!! us? sane? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:26 PM Subject: RE: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > Actually that depends....... > > If the tube is PERFECTLY clean, and the water is distilled, and NO > contaminants have entered from any source then the answer is a resounding > NO! > > Of course it is practically impossible to achieve these conditions..... > > I (when MUCH younger) did a simple test. Put two electrodes into a container > of distilled water. Measure the current flow..... > > Under the best of cirsumstances I was able to get about 3 minutes of > negligable current flow. Then it would rise rapidly until if popped a > breaker, blew a fuse, generated smoke (burning wires), or exploded ( Do NOT > drop a pinch of salt into the water while running this experiment.......) > > If fact if you are at all sane, do not attempt this experiment at > all!!!!!!!! > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > >>> Computer Festival > >>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:30 AM > >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >>> Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > >>> > >>> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >>> > >>> > Some of these things you can't do much about. But some > >>> you can - for > >>> > example, if you keep it in a humid environment, it will discharge > >>> > >>> So, immersing it in a tub of water will discharge it right away, no? > >>> > >>> :) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Sellam Ismail > >>> Vintage Computer Festival > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> ------------------ > >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >>> http://www.vintage.org > >>> > >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade > >>> Vintage Computers ] > >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >>> > > From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Mar 4 20:53:36 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher References: Message-ID: <002301c4025d$0e660e80$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> we also had ones that would punch the really wide tape for the formatters for the line printer! I remember the tape being much wider though! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher > > > > Hi all, > > > > Recently I found this really cute, but weird-looking thingie. It > > seems to be a handheld tool that allowed operators, field engineers > > Such things are actually (were actually?) quite common. A little jig to > hold the tape and 2 different diameter punch pins (one for data holes, > one for sprocket holes) to make corrections. > > Some of them could also be used to hold 2 pieces of tape which had to be > spliced together. There were special adhesive tape 'patches' that were > used for this -- punched with a complete set of data and sprocket holes. > You used tohse in the obvious way to join the tape. > > Incidentally, if you have to splice paper tape and don't have the right > jig, it's worth remembering that the holes are on a 0.1" by 0.1" matrix > and that a piece of stripboard with some pins soldered into it will often > work :-) > > -tony > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 4 21:05:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MIL-STD-1397C ???? was Re: New Finds Today Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040304220500.00840100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:06 PM 3/4/04 +0000, I wrote: > >> Went scrounging today and found a BIG pile of computers. MANY Dell PCs >> and a lot of IBM Power PCs. Brought home some of the PCs to check out and >> found that they all have P-III CPUs and ranged from 500 to 866 MHz. Some >> even had CD-RW drives! More interesting finds included two HP 9836Cs (the >> color version of the 9836), a HP 9000 380 (Probably top of the line for the >> HP 9000 200/300 series), a Sun Ultra 1 Creator 3D, a >>Hyundai<< Sparc >> model HWS-S310 (I had no idea Hyundai built andything like this!), a Matrox >> Shark 10/100/FX Ethernet switch, a SUN SparcStation 20, a HP drive array >> with hotswap drives, and one old PC with a very strange looking card in it. I just checked out the weird card that was in the old PC. It's a MIL-STD-1397C communications interface. Here's a link to a site about the card (a Navigator II). I've never heard of this MIL STD before is anyone familar with it? Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 4 21:12:27 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MIL-STD-1397C ???? was Re: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040304220500.00840100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I just checked out the weird card that was in the old PC. It's a > MIL-STD-1397C communications interface. Here's a link to a site about the > card (a Navigator II). > I've never heard of this MIL STD before is anyone familar with it? NTDS, I think? Its a fairly bulletproof serial bus. Military, but you knew that. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 4 21:20:35 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MIL-STD-1397C ???? was Re: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040304220500.00840100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040304222035.0083d6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:12 PM 3/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >> I just checked out the weird card that was in the old PC. It's a >> MIL-STD-1397C communications interface. Here's a link to a site about the >> card (a Navigator II). >> I've never heard of this MIL STD before is anyone familar with it? > >NTDS, I think? Yeap, Naval Tactical Data System (I just found that on the net.) Surprised that I've never heard of it before. > Its a fairly bulletproof serial bus. Military, but you >knew that. Do you know if it's still in use? Joe > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Mar 4 21:19:38 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <002301c4025d$0e660e80$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> References: <002301c4025d$0e660e80$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <20040305031938.GE6798@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 07:53:36PM -0700, ed sharpe wrote: > we also had ones that would punch the really wide tape for the formatters > for the line printer! > I remember the tape being much wider though! 12-channel is common for that application OnTopicTrivia: IBM protocols like HASP and 3780 allow you to send a "skip-to-channel N" command to the printer. Your application (FORTRAN, COBOL, etc) tells the printer to skip to channel 3, say, where you know it's the right place for a customer address (for example). The printer advances the carriage until channel 3 shows a hole, then prints from wherever on the page it is. You can skip from channel to channel (changing pages if necessary) to avoid having to put row-counts in your application. You just load the paper tape to match your form, and things appear in the right place. So... by convention, "channel 1" is always punched to set the paper to the top of form. Where, then, is channel 0? Nowhere. The protocol allows you to send a "skip-to-channel 0", but there is no channel zero on the paper tape. The typical response from older hardware is to empty the box of paper searching for channel 0 (newer hardware treats it like a Form Feed). Since we used to emulate IBM printers with COMBOARDs, I found and fixed an interesting bug once... occasionally our customers would complain that our product would hang if certain jobs were sent through. Turns out, the daemon wasn't hanging - it was attempting to fill the disk with blank lines because we received a skip-to-channel 0 command from the user's program. In other words, we were trying to empty a virtual box of paper, but the disk was so large that, before we could fill it, someone noticed that other jobs were getting stuck and killed the process. I changed the array to *add* a zero channel to our virtual paper tape (changed the array bounds from 1-12 to 0-12 and always wrote a "1" in location 0 - top of form) and the problem was solved. Unlike a real printer, it's easy to make it a 13-channel virtual tape when it's all software. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-Mar-2004 02:58 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -41.6 F (-40.9 C) Windchill -102.5 F (-74.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 19.4 kts Grid 019 Barometer 677 mb (10740 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 4 21:30:22 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MIL-STD-1397C ???? was Re: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040304222035.0083d6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Do you know if it's still in use? Very likely. I don't know of any specific examples, but the infrastructure on ships basically doesn't change much during a hull's career (typically 30 years). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Mar 4 21:44:54 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MIL-STD-1397C ???? was Re: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040304222035.0083d6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040304220500.00840100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040304222035.0083d6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4047F7B6.40806@jcwren.com> A Google search for "MIL-STD-1397C" had 149 hits. From one PDF I looked at: "The Naval Tactical Data Systems (NTDS) interface (MIL-STD-1397C) is a point-to-point communications specification used by nearly all of the Navy s peripheral devices such as monitors, radar systems, printers, tape drives and encryption devices, in order to talk to legacy host tactical computer systems." A few names are very recurrent, such as Sabtech, Wind River, and GET Engineering. I've seen it referred to as obsolete by some vendors. I don't know exactly what the context of "obsolete" is. --jc Joe R. wrote: >At 10:12 PM 3/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > > >>> I just checked out the weird card that was in the old PC. It's a >>>MIL-STD-1397C communications interface. Here's a link to a site about the >>>card (a Navigator II). >>>I've never heard of this MIL STD before is anyone familar with it? >>> >>> >>NTDS, I think? >> >> > > Yeap, Naval Tactical Data System (I just found that on the net.) >Surprised that I've never heard of it before. > > > > >>Its a fairly bulletproof serial bus. Military, but you >>knew that. >> >> > > Do you know if it's still in use? > > Joe > > > > >>William Donzelli >>aw288@osfn.org >> >> >> From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 4 21:53:22 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: MIL-STD-1397C ???? was Re: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <4047F7B6.40806@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > I've seen it referred to as obsolete by some vendors. I don't know > exactly what the context of "obsolete" is. "Obsolete" in the old (at least 1950) context means "Yes, we have them, we don't like them, we do not design systems with them, we are trying to get rid of them, but there still there". William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 4 22:01:18 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > systems before "home" computers as we know them. > I'm not into a large busy site, more of a quiet niche site for "real > oldies", ie... IBM, UNIVAC, VAX mainframes etc., with an occasional Altair, > Imsai, early TRS-80, or maybe even a Comodore PET thrown in for good > measure. Both are nice, frankly. To be honest, I have always wanted a forum (or whatever) that is almost pure big stuff. 200 pound minimum, and at least 20 years old. No Imsai, no CBM, no TRS-80, no Apple - we can get all of those right here. To add to that, no linux, no Windows, no MS-DOS, and so forth... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From terryf at cox.net Thu Mar 4 22:51:02 2004 From: terryf at cox.net (terryf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: William: This forum will be what you guys make it. My primary reason behind it is an attempt to fill a void I see popping up now and again in the classiccmp lists... Where can you find a common place to meet, swap, bargain, share files, docs, etc. for "real" computers without being asked how move the taskbar in windoze. It is my hope that this site will become that, I'm shooting for the little neighborhood bar full of regulars, not the nightclub with big bands. I like blinkin lites too :-) Terry CCompForum.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:01 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; ClassicCmp@vintage-computer.com Subject: RE: (no subject) > systems before "home" computers as we know them. > I'm not into a large busy site, more of a quiet niche site for "real > oldies", ie... IBM, UNIVAC, VAX mainframes etc., with an occasional Altair, > Imsai, early TRS-80, or maybe even a Comodore PET thrown in for good > measure. Both are nice, frankly. To be honest, I have always wanted a forum (or whatever) that is almost pure big stuff. 200 pound minimum, and at least 20 years old. No Imsai, no CBM, no TRS-80, no Apple - we can get all of those right here. To add to that, no linux, no Windows, no MS-DOS, and so forth... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 4 23:20:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 5, 4 01:27:20 am Message-ID: > So I can make a discharger with some resistors and a bit of plastic? Sounds Yes. There was a design for an EHT probe like this in 'Television' magazine a few years back. These EHT probes as just a high-value resistor (a few hundred megohms) and a microammeter in series. The main problem is keping the resistors well enough insulated. Remmeber it has to stand 30kV or so. > very Blue Peter (UK kids after-school TV show) :o) What's the best way of There is nothing wrong with home-made stuff! -tony From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Mar 5 01:36:10 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F59@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Aha, again one scan I did to make somebody happy :-) I realize that the directory path and file names should be "a bit" shorter though ... I have sent Jay West 7 or so CD-ROMs with scans of FMPS and manuals last february (2003!). That's a lot more than on mainecoon (only 4 CD-ROMs). If Jay is reading this: how's the PDF step getting along? In the mean time I have filled up an other CD with manuals. - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Uban [mailto:uban@ubanproductions.com] > Sent: donderdag 4 maart 2004 16:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: H744 +5 supply - easy to fix? > > > > >I could not find a schematic - do you have one? (I realize > it's a straight > >forward switcher, but I like a picture :-) > > Here's a scan from the 11/45 engineering drawings which > includes the H744: > > tem%20ED%20(H744-45-46-54%20&%20G772)%20part-g.tif>http://www. > mainecoon.com/classiccmp/PDP-11-45/PDP-11-45%20system%20ED%20( > H744-45-46-54%20&%20G772)%20part-g.tif > > > --tom > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 5 02:14:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: "Witchy" "RE: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 5, 0:52) References: Message-ID: <10403050814.ZM19205@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 0:52, Witchy wrote: > Blue? I've never seen a blue AUI cable! Then again I only worked with > moulded DEC ones so I dunno about 3rd party products :) The moulded ones, usually beige in colour, a bit thicker than a pencil, or somewhat thicker than thinnet cable, are office-grade. They have much higher losses and you can't use them for long runs. I think the maximum allowed length is about 30'. All the standard-grade ones I've ever seen are blue, and about as thick as yellow etherhose. Maximum length 164' (50m). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 5 03:35:00 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of terryf > Sent: 05 March 2004 04:51 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: (no subject) > > William: > > This forum will be what you guys make it. My primary > reason behind it is an attempt to fill a void I see popping > up now and again in the classiccmp lists... Where can you > find a common place to meet, swap, bargain, share files, > docs, etc. for "real" computers without being asked how move > the taskbar in windoze. Er, here? When was the last question here about moving the 'doze taskbar? w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 5 03:40:37 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 05 March 2004 05:20 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution > > Yes. There was a design for an EHT probe like this in 'Television' > magazine a few years back. These EHT probes as just a > high-value resistor (a few hundred megohms) and a > microammeter in series. > > The main problem is keping the resistors well enough > insulated. Remmeber it has to stand 30kV or so. Hmm. I think I'd be better off buying one for now! w From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 5 05:37:22 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1078485645.9977.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 05:20, Tony Duell wrote: > There is nothing wrong with home-made stuff! Except when it catches fire :o) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 5 05:32:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040305063244.00811e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:01 PM 3/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >> systems before "home" computers as we know them. >> I'm not into a large busy site, more of a quiet niche site for "real >> oldies", ie... IBM, UNIVAC, VAX mainframes etc., with an occasional Altair, >> Imsai, early TRS-80, or maybe even a Comodore PET thrown in for good >> measure. > >Both are nice, frankly. > >To be honest, I have always wanted a forum (or whatever) that is almost >pure big stuff. 200 pound minimum, Gee. My HP 9845 calculator almost meets that requrement. Add a disk drive and printer and it easily exceeds it. Joe and at least 20 years old. No Imsai, >no CBM, no TRS-80, no Apple - we can get all of those right here. To add >to that, no linux, no Windows, no MS-DOS, and so forth... > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Mar 5 07:00:09 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. References: <200403040921.03792.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <002001c402b1$dc32cc00$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: The story finally make the paper. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Late last fall I asked about talking to the press, the story appeared today. > Almost a year ago, April 24, 2003, the Toronto Star did an article on collecting featuring myself and Kevin Stumpf. Even though the guy took lots of shots in my basement, regretfully only Kevin made the big time, standing in front of his ex-Ontario Power Generating IBM 1800. (Maybe it was because he had a tie on and I didn't.) We got the whole back page of the Technology Today section, well ... except for a gigantic Canon ad. Kevin's site was mentioned as was my own collector's list at Geocities (which everyone here should be on!) If there is any interest, I could scan this aticle and put it up on my site for a bit. BM The Computer Collectors List is at : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 08:07:54 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: New Finds Today References: <3.0.6.32.20040304205416.008c9420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <404889BA.737BD4D7@comcast.net> "Joe R." wrote: > > Went scrounging today and found a BIG pile of computers... > ... a Sun Ultra 1 Creator 3D... > They're all going to a steel scrapper so I'm free to take anything that I > want from them. > > Joe I could use a few parts from the Ultra 1, if they're available. Most importantly I could use the internal CDROM cable assembly. The CD connector broke off of mine. The memory and HDD brackets would be nice, but not necessary... Let me know... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 5 08:37:55 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "witchy" == witchy writes: >> -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull >> Sent: 04 March 2004 23:16 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and >> Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: AUI cables in UK? >> >> There's no way a standard-grade blue AUI cable will turn through >> 90 in less than 15 cm. It might just be doable with an >> office-grade cable. witchy> Blue? I've never seen a blue AUI cable! Then again I only witchy> worked with moulded DEC ones so I dunno about 3rd party witchy> products :) The early AUI cables with the stiff cable and metal-shell connectors came in several colors. Blue was one. Some vague memory says that it may depend on the insulation material. Some cables were Teflon insulation, which allows them to be run into dropped ceilings. (U.S. firecodes require non-flammable materials in those areas.) Those were originally a translucent tan color, with markings printed on a strip of paper underneath the outer layer. Blue ones were, I think, PVC or polyethylene insulation, which is a lot less expensive and easier to handle but allowed only in office areas and under raised floors. Similar considerations apply to the Ethernet coax itself, though the original fat (10Base5) was only sold in Teflon grade, at least by DEC. They switched to offering two choices with 10Base2 (Thinwire). There was some prototype 10Base5 cable that was yellow PE, though. It had black stripes to mark transceiver spacing. So it got the nickname "yellowjacket". paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 5 08:45:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> <200403050133.UAA23022@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16456.37531.332254.649590@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: >> I want to use my AUI <-> 10bT tranciever with my 4000/200 but I >> can't get the cover on with it connected directly to the AUI port. der> Provided the wire is short, you don't need a pukka cable. I der> once built an AUI cable from two DB15 connectors and about eight der> inches of random 15-pin ribbon cable I had lying around. (I der> first tried it with some six or eight feet of the same ribbon der> cable, but the error rate was insane. But six to eight inches der> is short enough that at 10Mb speeds the impedance bump becomes der> invisible.) Good point. The AUI cable specs are in the Ethernet standard (which you can find in bitsavers.org in the xerox/ethernet directory). If you have to fake an AUI cable, I would think a good way to go would be to use Category 5 cable, with the pairs matched up with the differential pairs on the AUI cable. It doesn't quite match -- I think cat 5 is either 100 or 150 ohm cable, and AUI cable is supposed to be 78. Also, the AUI spec calls for shielded pairs. AUI cable is also 4 pairs though you need one more wire for the "shield". Pinout: 1 shield 2 collision + 3 transmit + 5 receive + 6 ground 9 collision - 10 transmit - 12 receive - 13 power The connector is a DB-15 with unusual latches, but if you ignore the latches then a stock DB-15 will work. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 5 08:55:02 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher References: <002301c4025d$0e660e80$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <16456.38086.575662.375752@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ed" == ed sharpe writes: ed> we also had ones that would punch the really wide tape for the ed> formatters for the line printer! I remember the tape being much ed> wider though! The holes are generally larger, too, perhaps double size. More trivia -- everyone knows 8-channel tape, and a lot of people (older hams especially) know 5-channel tape. There is also 6-channel tape. It's rather specialized -- you find it in early automated typesetting machines. Originally it showed up in tape-fed Linotype machines, then in early optical typesetters. The idea was that you'd prepare the copy on a paper punch keyboard, and then feed the tapes to the typesetter. Several keyboard operators could be kept busy feeding one (very expensive!) typesetter. These 6-channel tapes used a variety of codes, none bearing any resemblance to anything else you know... Much older is Monotype tape, it goes back to the 19th century. That feeds a Monotype type-casting machine, the usual machine for typesetting books and the like up to the 1960s or so. I don't know any of the specifics. Some vague memory says that it had 15 channels, with only two punched for any one frame. Half the channels would define an X-position and half a Y-position for an array of type molds that the casting machine would use. But all that is pretty fuzzy... paul From technobug at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 09:36:42 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: RL02 In-Reply-To: <200403051510.i25F9wxI053311@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403051510.i25F9wxI053311@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: One of the local junkers has a RL02 on the line to be parted. If anyone is interested I'll be around there later today and can ask for a price and a reprieve. Claude From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Mar 5 10:02:31 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: RL02 In-Reply-To: References: <200403051510.i25F9wxI053311@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, CRC wrote: > One of the local junkers has a RL02 on the line to be parted. If anyone > is interested I'll be around there later today and can ask for a price > and a reprieve. That's great! Box it up and ship it right over here! Oh yeah, tell me exactly what the shipping costs are so I can plan... ;} Cheers Terry N. Cognito From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 10:14:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <10403050814.ZM19205@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 5, 0:52, Witchy wrote: > > > Blue? I've never seen a blue AUI cable! Then again I only worked with > > moulded DEC ones so I dunno about 3rd party products :) > > The moulded ones, usually beige in colour, a bit thicker than a pencil, > or somewhat thicker than thinnet cable, are office-grade. They have > much higher losses and you can't use them for long runs. I think the > maximum allowed length is about 30'. All the standard-grade ones I've > ever seen are blue, and about as thick as yellow etherhose. Maximum > length 164' (50m). Ah, thanks for solving the mystery of the weird DA15 cables I got in the other day. Now I know these are AUI cables. Useful. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 10:15:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <1078485645.9977.5.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 05:20, Tony Duell wrote: > > There is nothing wrong with home-made stuff! > > Except when it catches fire :o) Yep, because then you only have yourself to blame (and no one else to sue). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 10:18:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. In-Reply-To: <002001c402b1$dc32cc00$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Almost a year ago, April 24, 2003, the Toronto Star did an article on > collecting featuring myself and Kevin Stumpf. Even though the guy took lots > of shots in my basement, regretfully only Kevin made the big time, standing > in front of his ex-Ontario Power Generating IBM 1800. (Maybe it was because > he had a tie on and I didn't.) Newspaper real estate is valuable. They aren't going to do a full page spread of photos unless you've blown the President or something. They always take a zillion photos so they have a good selection to choose from back at the office instead of having to send a photographer back if they don't end up with the shot that they like. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 5 10:32:03 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution References: Message-ID: <4048AB83.7000506@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 5 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > >>On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 05:20, Tony Duell wrote: >> >>>There is nothing wrong with home-made stuff! >> >>Except when it catches fire :o) > Yep, because then you only have yourself to blame (and no one else to > sue). I guess that is why the 6502 and Apple did so well for home made stuff, the 68xx CPU's all have the Halt and Catch Fire instruction. That also applies to some FORTH CPU's too. Ben. From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Mar 5 10:45:08 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. References: Message-ID: <003401c402d1$4a487720$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: The story finally make the paper. > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Almost a year ago, April 24, 2003, the Toronto Star did an article on > > collecting featuring myself and Kevin Stumpf. Even though the guy took lots > > of shots in my basement, regretfully only Kevin made the big time, standing > > in front of his ex-Ontario Power Generating IBM 1800. (Maybe it was because > > he had a tie on and I didn't.) > > Newspaper real estate is valuable. They aren't going to do a full page > spread of photos unless you've blown the President or something. They > always take a zillion photos so they have a good selection to choose from > back at the office instead of having to send a photographer back if they > don't end up with the shot that they like. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > ...but ... but I'm wayyy better looking than Kevin! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 5 12:47:03 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning > Sent: 05 March 2004 14:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: AUI cables in UK? > > There was some prototype 10Base5 cable that was yellow PE, > though. It had black stripes to mark transceiver spacing. > So it got the nickname "yellowjacket". Prototype? All the 10base5 cable I ever installed was yellow with black stripes for the H400x clamps....this would've been maybe late 80s.... Cheers w From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Mar 5 13:34:29 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <4048AB83.7000506@jetnet.ab.ca> from ben franchuk at "Mar 5, 4 09:32:03 am" Message-ID: <200403051934.LAA19066@floodgap.com> > I guess that is why the 6502 and Apple did so well > for home made stuff, the 68xx CPU's all have the > Halt and Catch Fire instruction. > That also applies to some FORTH CPU's too. In fairness, a lot of NMOS 6502s have apparent freeze opcodes (try POKE768,2 POKE 769,96 and CALL 768 on an Apple sometime, or the equivalent on a Commodore or Atari). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In memory of Greg Morris --------------------------------------------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Mar 5 13:53:23 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <200403051934.LAA19066@floodgap.com> from Cameron Kaiser at "Mar 5, 4 11:34:29 am" Message-ID: <200403051953.LAA14002@floodgap.com> > > I guess that is why the 6502 and Apple did so well > > for home made stuff, the 68xx CPU's all have the > > Halt and Catch Fire instruction. > > That also applies to some FORTH CPU's too. > > In fairness, a lot of NMOS 6502s have apparent freeze opcodes (try POKE768,2 > POKE 769,96 and CALL 768 on an Apple sometime, or the equivalent on a > Commodore or Atari). Actually, thinking this over, a lot of Apples may have CMOS 6502s in them and I forget if $02 is still the 6502 "HCF" instruction. POKE49152,2:SYS49152 will definitely sour a C64 (all Commodore 8-bits except the C65 are NMOS systems). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Do not innovate unnecessarily. -- "The Tick" ------------------------------- From asholz at topinform.de Wed Mar 3 04:21:20 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk, I think I got it! In-Reply-To: <001601c400aa$3a516670$0201a8c0@neko2> References: <001601c400aa$3a516670$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <4045B1A0.2080602@topinform.com> Hello all, > I would like some input on that conclusion though because I couldn't find any pictures to help confirm it. Also, and I'll be doing more searching for more info as well, but I still don't know what size these are, or if they even have a standard size for that drive, so any input there would be great too! Thank you all again, your help is GREATLY appreciated!! > > A CDC Phoenix 9448 Cartridge Drive (I've two of them) is able to emulate an RK06/07 drive, the RK07 based on an internal SMD-harddisk. The (your) cartridge should have the size of an RK06. Up to know I was'nt able to find any other information about these drives than from Emulex SMD-Controller manuals. - Andreas From phil at clew.com.au Wed Mar 3 09:01:20 2004 From: phil at clew.com.au (Phil Sutherland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk, I think I got it! In-Reply-To: <001601c400aa$3a516670$0201a8c0@neko2> References: <001601c400aa$3a516670$0201a8c0@neko2> Message-ID: <3112525.1078354880@[192.168.1.208]> Tim, It looks like a CDC Phoenix pack to me. Spent many (more or less) happy hours working with these on Alpha Micro equipment in the early/mid eighties. Cheers phil From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Mar 5 06:39:01 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040304205416.008c9420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040304205416.008c9420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040305073757.02600000@mail.n.ml.org> cfl.rr ... I take it that's Central Florida... damn, a bit closer and I would have made some offers for some of the PC's and/or other hardware. Oh well, always next time... -John Boffemmyer IV At 08:54 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote: > Went scrounging today and found a BIG pile of computers. MANY Dell PCs >and a lot of IBM Power PCs. Brought home some of the PCs to check out and >found that they all have P-III CPUs and ranged from 500 to 866 MHz. Some >even had CD-RW drives! More interesting finds included two HP 9836Cs (the >color version of the 9836), a HP 9000 380 (Probably top of the line for the >HP 9000 200/300 series), a Sun Ultra 1 Creator 3D, a >>Hyundai<< Sparc >model HWS-S310 (I had no idea Hyundai built andything like this!), a Matrox >Shark 10/100/FX Ethernet switch, a SUN SparcStation 20, a HP drive array >with hotswap drives, and one old PC with a very strange looking card in it. >I'm going back tomorrow and pulling parts from the PCs that I didn't take. >They're all going to a steel scrapper so I'm free to take anything that I >want from them. > > Joe ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From les at lesgoulden.plus.com Fri Mar 5 10:00:04 2004 From: les at lesgoulden.plus.com (Les Goulden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment Message-ID: <001801c402ca$ecafa580$0300000a@Les> To Whom it May Concern, I have some old Tandy computer equipment and many secondhand 8" Disks. I have been told that you might be interested? Who are you and what do you do? My name is Les and I live in Plymouth. Les From edelen at sierra1.nrl.navy.mil Wed Mar 3 09:17:38 2004 From: edelen at sierra1.nrl.navy.mil (Edelen, Keech (Contractor)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Vax Tapes Give Away Message-ID: <43CC37D1503DD611BB5600B0D0AB4180720DFB@sierra1.nrl.navy.mil> Do you still have those Vax tapes? If so I'd love to get them from you. Keech Edelen IT Specialist III 202-767-4244 office 877-428-8780 pager 240-346-6829 cell From electronicrepair at teamsesco.com Thu Mar 4 14:38:35 2004 From: electronicrepair at teamsesco.com (electronic repair) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Texas Instuments TIL-306 Message-ID: <1C8560D19BF96E40B100379EBCCBBFA61D4623@server.teamsesco.local> Hi, My name is Miller Miller and I was looking for some TIL-306 Displays and I came across your forum. You mentioned that you knew a supplier that might have some surplus of these. Does he still have them? Can you tell me who it is. Thanks for any help that can provide. Mike Miller From gwenael.godde at wanadoo.fr Fri Mar 5 11:19:18 2004 From: gwenael.godde at wanadoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gw=E9na=EBl_GODDE?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Hi, Hp logic analyzer Message-ID: <000801c402d5$ff13e500$f6873551@fti3yz2tq2> Hi, I saw your message at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-May/014475.html I have a 1650b model but without any system disk. (The system disk is needed to use the monster) And i wasn't able to found any file on the www. If you have the system disk, is it possible for you to send it to me (by email)? Many many; Thanks Gw?nael GODDE From mwallin at cinci.rr.com Wed Mar 3 13:38:16 2004 From: mwallin at cinci.rr.com (Michael Wallin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: atc-510 simulator Message-ID: <000a01c40157$13586840$cf462118@michael> Doug- hello, not to be a pest, but I was about to list some accessories for my old atc-510 flight simulator on ebay. I searched the internet for atc-510 simulator, and only came up with a handful of results. One of them was a thread where you said you were looking for something for your 510. Please let me know 1) if you still have the unit and 2) if you are looking for any accessories. thanks for your time and sorry to bother you, Mike From penson at email.arizona.edu Wed Mar 3 10:07:17 2004 From: penson at email.arizona.edu (penson@email.arizona.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Heathkit ES-400 Message-ID: <1078330037.00d156b3ef57f@www.email.arizona.edu> Good morning. I came upon your email address while doing a google search for information on the Heathkit ES-400. You had posted an inquiry asking if anyone knew how many ES-400s had been made or sold. Wondering what you found out? An ES-400 recently turned up at a museum in Minneapolis. Cheers, Chuck Penson University of Arizona From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Mar 5 14:02:48 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <4048DCE8.4020406@ntlworld.com> meltie wrote: >Hi guys - another quickie :) > >Does anyone in the UK or immediate surrounds have an AUI cable around that >they'd be willing to part with for a small amount of beer tokens? I want >to use my AUI <-> 10bT tranciever with my 4000/200 but I can't get the >cover on with it connected directly to the AUI port. > >TIA! >alex/melt > > > > I've got some short aui-->aui connector cables from some sun ipx machines, If you send me your address I'll post one too, it is not perfect but it will work,I used to have one on my 500. Dan From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Mar 5 14:24:26 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <4048DCE8.4020406@ntlworld.com> References: <200403042100.i24L0js08865@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403042136.10938.lists@microvax.org> <4048DCE8.4020406@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4048E1FA.2040008@ntlworld.com> >> >> > I've got some short aui-->aui connector cables from some sun ipx > machines, If you send me your address I'll post one too, it is not > perfect but it will work,I used to have one on my 500. > > Dan > > I know i'm replying to my own post but I had a private email querying these. I should of explained better, the ipx machines I own have a aui tranceiver mounted internally with a ribbon cable which goes from the outside of the case to the connector and then plugs in the back of the transceiver. I assume these was an after market option. But the ribbon cable will plug into the vax and allow the tranceiver to dangle inside the box. Dan From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Mar 5 14:23:08 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Queries to group Message-ID: <200403052023.MAA02656@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Ok, this is just too much of a coincidence. We just got 5 post that were queries about post to our group. Only one of the post recognized that they were sending to a group. I find it hard to believe that these are simple people looking for information ( all at the same time ). I sure wish I knew what they were up to or maybe it is the end result of some virus. I just doesn't make any sense. See: Heathkit ES-400 atc-510 simulator Texas Instuments TIL-306 Old Tandy Computer Equipment Hi, Hp logic analyzer What are they up to. Are these really valid queries?? Dwight From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 5 12:41:36 2004 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: PDP-8/A board info References: <1078389295.6155.3.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <01a701c402e1$7e3de820$4329a5d1@shannon> My book says " DX10 interface to IBM mux/ sel Channel. Shannon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Sotomayor" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:34 AM Subject: PDP-8/A board info > Hi, > > I'm trying to figure out what this board is/does. It's a DEC hex height > board marked M8597A. On the back it's also marked PDP 8A Control. > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks. > -- > > TTFN - Guy > From paul at frixxon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 14:37:14 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Queries to group In-Reply-To: <200403052023.MAA02656@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200403052023.MAA02656@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4048E4FA.2060109@frixxon.co.uk> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > Ok, this is just too much of a coincidence. > We just got 5 post that were queries about > post to our group. Only one of the post recognized > that they were sending to a group. I find it > hard to believe that these are simple people > looking for information ( all at the same time ). Posts by non-members are held for moderation. When the moderator deals with them, they come through all at once. No conspiracy theories are needed. -- Paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 5 14:51:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: <001801c402ca$ecafa580$0300000a@Les> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Les Goulden > Sent: 05 March 2004 16:00 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment > > To Whom it May Concern, > > I have some old Tandy computer equipment and many secondhand > 8" Disks. I have been told that you might be interested? > Who are you and what do you do? Hi Les, You've reached the classiccmp mailing list, which has many members spread all over the US and Europe, though largely US. People here collect, fix and run anything from small home micros to mainframes and supercomputers and there's a collective knowledge base going right back to I'd guess the middle of the last century. What sort of Tandy stuff have you got? 8" disks makes me think of the TRS80 Model II and machines of that ilk..... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 15:49:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Texas Instuments TIL-306 In-Reply-To: <1C8560D19BF96E40B100379EBCCBBFA61D4623@server.teamsesco.local> Message-ID: I'll bet if someone did some statistical analysis on these messages that come from outside the list and figure out the trend or pattern that drives them they'd probably discover some previously unknown mystery of the universe. On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, electronic repair wrote: > Hi, > My name is Miller Miller and I was looking for some TIL-306 Displays and I came across your forum. > You mentioned that you knew a supplier that might have some surplus of these. Does he still have them? > Can you tell me who it is. > > Thanks for any help that can provide. > > Mike Miller > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 15:49:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: <001801c402ca$ecafa580$0300000a@Les> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Les Goulden wrote: > I have some old Tandy computer equipment and many secondhand 8" Disks. I > have been told that you might be interested? Who are you and what do you > do? My name is Les and I live in Plymouth. Sounds like a Tandy 12 or 16, or a TRS-80 Model II. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 15:51:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Queries to group In-Reply-To: <4048E4FA.2060109@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Paul Williams wrote: > Posts by non-members are held for moderation. When the moderator deals > with them, they come through all at once. No conspiracy theories are needed. Ah yes. That makes sense. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 15:52:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Les Goulden > > Sent: 05 March 2004 16:00 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment > > > > To Whom it May Concern, > > > > I have some old Tandy computer equipment and many secondhand > > 8" Disks. I have been told that you might be interested? > > Who are you and what do you do? > > Hi Les, > > You've reached the classiccmp mailing list, which has many members spread > all over the US and Europe, though largely US. People here collect, fix and > run anything from small home micros to mainframes and supercomputers and > there's a collective knowledge base going right back to I'd guess the middle > of the last century. > > What sort of Tandy stuff have you got? 8" disks makes me think of the TRS80 > Model II and machines of that ilk..... I hope folks realize that when you reply to these messages on the list, the original sender is probably not getting your reply. You should also include the original senders e-mail address as a CC when you reply to these. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 5 15:57:46 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <383b1a8b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Witchy" wrote: > > *or not, as they're stopping selling components... > Oh *great*. Then again I've been using Farnell lately so sod 'em :) That's Craplin for you, though. I went in to get a few nuts and bolts (literally) a few weeks ago - "Sorry, Sir, we've stopped stocking those." Same again for the BD140 transistors and the high current battery connector I wanted. Only thing I've got against Farnell is that they've stopped stocking the FCI Minitek 2mm pitch connectors - they're now sold under the "Direct Ship" scheme - in other words, "Pay extra and wait a week". Strange how not six months ago Farnell UK stocked the Minitek crimps and headers. Does anyone know of a source for 2mm-pitch connectors suitable for connection to the RS232 port on a Hewlett Packard 700LX palmtop? The 100LX and 200LX use the same connector, IIRC - 5x2 2mm-pitch female header (socket - holes, not pins). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... How do frogs die? Ker-mit suicide! From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 5 16:16:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:56 2005 Subject: classiccmp hard drive issue Message-ID: <000b01c402ff$91367dc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> The Classiccmp server is having some hard drive trouble again. With the 160gb WD drive I put in not too long ago. You may see some blips on the radar screen while I try to copy things off :\ Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 5 16:21:44 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a6d1c8b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "David V. Corbin" wrote: > Ps: does anyone have some of the adhesive papertape patches? Well, seeing as we're on the subject of papertape hardware, I'd love to get hold of a papertape punch, reader and a few rolls of papertape. I've been told nothing beats watching the papertape whizz by as a program is loaded into RAM. Personally, I think a papertape reader would make a nice addition to my 6502 single-board computer :). Small size and light weight would be useful, and operation from 240V AC (or low voltage DC) is essential. I suppose I could hack together a papertape reader, but I doubt a papertape punch would be particularly easy to homebrew :( ISTR someone offered me a punch, reader and a few rolls of paper tape a while back, but I seem to have lost their email address (something at canada.com IIRC). Later, -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Give your child mental blocks for Christmas. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 16:14:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 12 crt substitution In-Reply-To: <1078485645.9977.5.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Mar 5, 4 11:20:46 am Message-ID: > > On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 05:20, Tony Duell wrote: > > There is nothing wrong with home-made stuff! > > Except when it catches fire :o) Odd... I've had many more commercial things catch fire (or at least emit magic smoke) than homebrew stuff... Probably because I don't build down to a price. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 16:20:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <16456.37531.332254.649590@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Mar 5, 4 09:45:47 am Message-ID: > The connector is a DB-15 with unusual latches, but if you ignore the > latches then a stock DB-15 will work. Actually, it's a DA15 (the DB15 doesn't exist AFAIK), and normally has the standard slidelock latches. I had to make an AUI cable for my PERQ. That machines has normal screw-down jackposts on the ethernet connector (it's an otherwise-standard DA15, with the standard pinout). So I had to make up a special cable with screwlocks on the male end and a slidelock on the female end. The only difficult bit to find was the cable. Plenty of places would sell me a 100m reel of it, but I only wanted a couple of metres. In the end I found a freindly network guy who gave me an offcut. IIRC it had a brown outer jacket (just as another data point!). The cable is 4 twisted pairs, but one of them (the power pair) is supposed to be thicher, to carry more current (obviously the characteristic impedance of the power lines doesn't matter!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 16:23:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <16456.38086.575662.375752@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Mar 5, 4 09:55:02 am Message-ID: > More trivia -- everyone knows 8-channel tape, and a lot of people > (older hams especially) know 5-channel tape. There is also 6-channel > tape. It's rather specialized -- you find it in early automated That 6 channel typestter tape is strange in one other way. In all other paper tapes, the centres of the data and sproket holes like on a line across the tape. On typesetter tape, the leading edges of the holes line up, not the centres. This means you can't punch it on a normal punch, no matter what you do with the edge guides. You need a special die block. Most punch manufacturers made them (for example there's a special version of the Facit 4070), but they're not common. In theory you need a special read head too, but in practice a normal one will work. However you do need to fiddle with the edge guides... -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 5 16:28:53 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "RE: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 5, 9:37) References: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10403052228.ZM19683@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 9:37, Paul Koning wrote: > There was some prototype 10Base5 cable that was yellow PE, though. It > had black stripes to mark transceiver spacing. So it got the nickname > "yellowjacket". According to the standard, the markings are supposed to be on all 10base5 cable; they're to indicate where it's safe to put a transceiver, and where to cut the cable at the ends. They're every 2.5 metres, and there should be at least two between transceivers. However, I've seen cable that didn't have the bands, but it was probably ordinary coax rather than intended specifically for ethernet. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 5 16:28:55 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 5, 8:14) References: Message-ID: <10403052228.ZM19686@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 8:14, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > The moulded ones, usually beige in colour, a bit thicker than a pencil, > > or somewhat thicker than thinnet cable, are office-grade. [...] > > All the standard-grade ones I've > > ever seen are blue, and about as thick as yellow etherhose. > Ah, thanks for solving the mystery of the weird DA15 cables I got in the > other day. Now I know these are AUI cables. Useful. As Paul pointed out, there were other colours -- they just happen to be very rare here, and I've only ever seen blue ones. However, some of those blue ones weren't PVC, so perhaps they're low smoke/no fume (LSOF). I've also got at least two types of thick ether cable, but both are yellow. And several types of thinnet, including yellow and grey as well as the more common black. As Paul and der Mouse suggested, I agree that it would be worth making up a short flexible AUI cable. Cat 5 is 100-ohm, and ribbon cable is not far off that IIRC; you could use STP instead of UTP to get the shield (some Sun cables are STP), or just ignore it for really a short (a few inches) cable. Or a chunk of old good-quality serial cable should do a good job over short distances, I expect. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 16:46:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Actually, it's a DA15 (the DB15 doesn't exist AFAIK), and normally has the > standard slidelock latches. When you say DA-15, do you mean a connector the same size as that of a 9-pin serial cable, or the next size up as on a typical Macintosh display? If they are both referred to as DA, why? If not, what is the proper designation (since DB is the typical 25-pin shell size)? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 16:45:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <0a6d1c8b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 5, 4 10:21:44 pm Message-ID: > > In message > "David V. Corbin" wrote: > > > Ps: does anyone have some of the adhesive papertape patches? > Well, seeing as we're on the subject of papertape hardware, I'd love to get > hold of a papertape punch, reader and a few rolls of papertape. I've been > told nothing beats watching the papertape whizz by as a program is loaded > into RAM. Personally, I think a papertape reader would make a nice addition > to my 6502 single-board computer :). Small size and light weight would be > useful, and operation from 240V AC (or low voltage DC) is essential. > I suppose I could hack together a papertape reader, but I doubt a papertape > punch would be particularly easy to homebrew :( There have been several designs for homebrew readers, the schematic of one is in the back of the S100 handbook. The unidentified chips in that schemaitc are obviously 555 timers, used as schmitt triggers (!). The only difficult thing to make is the photodiode array for the read head. I wonder if you could use plastic fibre-optic cable to lead the light from a row of holes to some normal-size photodetectors mounted on a PCB in a convenient arrangement. It would be easier than finding some photodetectors that you could mount on 0.1" centres. Making a punch is a lot harder! If you want my recomendations as to units to look out for (assuming you have a choice). Punches : Facit 4070. Easily the top of the list. It's easy to keep going, mechnicallly simple, and has a simple interface (close to Centronics, normally). 'Only' 75 cps, though. Teletype BRPE. OK, it's fast (110cps), but a pain to interface. Not hard to keep running, though. Other Data Dynamics units seem to often have interfaces close to the BRPE, but are slower. Can be useable The GNT34 isn't bad (and is tiny), but you really want to get one with electronics (e.g. as part of the Trend Paper Tape Station). Reders. If given the choice, get a Trend HSR500 (500cps) or UDR350/UDR700. These are quite small, have built-in electronics, and go on for ever. It's almost impossible not to set one up correctly. I _love_ these units. UDRs and HSR500Ps have a builit-in mains PSU, the HSR500 needs mains (for the motor), +5V, and IIRC +24V. Not impossible to power. The other advantage of these units is that they're entirely optical (even the sprocket track) and have a capstan/pinsh roller tape feed. There are therefore very kind to the tapes Other, smaller, optical readers often have optical detection for the data holes only, with a sprocket wheel driven by a stepper motor to feed the tape. Typcially limited to 50cps maximum (most are 30cps), they're useable, but not as kind to the tapes. Facit made a thing which looks like a modified 4070 punch with such a reader built into the front cover (and quite complex electronics inside). Useable, but... Avoild totally mechnanical readers unless you like repairing tapes and correcting read errors. The Teletype ASR33 is fun, but I wouldn't want to use one seriously! -tony From david_comley at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 16:52:45 2004 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M980 PROM Programmer manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040305225245.82066.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> If this is a loose-leaf binder type of document I have access to a document scanner that will do a decent job of scanning it. Would you be willing to send it to me for scanning ? I'd happy to send the resulting pdf on to Al Kossow for inclusion on his site. -Dave --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, David Comley wrote: > > > If there's any chance of a scan I would be > interested. I have one of > > these minus documentation. > > I'm not able to do a scan but if someone else would > like to do so then I > can send the manual to them for scanning. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 16:47:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <10403052228.ZM19686@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 5, 4 10:28:55 pm Message-ID: > As Paul and der Mouse suggested, I agree that it would be worth making > up a short flexible AUI cable. Cat 5 is 100-ohm, and ribbon cable is > not far off that IIRC; you could use STP instead of UTP to get the > shield (some Sun cables are STP), or just ignore it for really a short > (a few inches) cable. Or a chunk of old good-quality serial cable I wonder if IDC cable would work for a very short (a few inches) length? Just enough to turn the transceiver 'round the corner' or whatever. -tony From aek at spies.com Fri Mar 5 16:58:52 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Pro-Log M980 PROM Programmer manual Message-ID: <200403052258.i25Mwq9F018506@spies.com> I'd happy to send the resulting pdf on to Al Kossow for inclusion on his site. -- Is this a different version that what is already there? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 17:05:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 5, 4 02:46:14 pm Message-ID: > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Actually, it's a DA15 (the DB15 doesn't exist AFAIK), and normally has the > > standard slidelock latches. > > When you say DA-15, do you mean a connector the same size as that of a > 9-pin serial cable, or the next size up as on a typical Macintosh display? DA = the one that's the same size as a Mac video connector (or PC joystick port). DE = the one that's the same size as a PC 9 pin serial port (FWIW, the following exist. Normal High Density DE9 DE15 DA15 DA26 DB25 DB44 DC37 DC62 DD50 I beleive other ones have existed for special applications (particularly high density DC shells with a few more than 62 pins!) Some typical uses : DE9 : PC/AT serial port, Apple //e gamess port, PC MDA/CGA/EGA video DA15 : AUI port, PC Joystick port, Mac video, Beeb analogue port DB25 : Real RS232 port, PC Centronics port, Mac SCSI port DC37 : PC ex4ernal floppy connector, Canon CX-VDO interface DD50 : (old) Sun SCSI port DE15 : PC VGA video DA26 : never seen it used DB44 : Ditto DC62 : PC Expansion chassis connector THey're used for plenty of other things, so please don't moan that I've not mentioned your favourite machine there (I suspect if I said things like 'DA15 : PERQ video sync/keboard/mouse signals, it would help nobody). I am trying to mention machines that you're likely to have seen. I';ve also seen DF19 (Atari ST DMA port?) and DG23 (Amiga video connector) refered to as such, but I am not sure those are official. > > If they are both referred to as DA, why? If not, what is the proper > designation (since DB is the typical 25-pin shell size)? The letter gives the shell size. -tony From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 5 17:15:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: <16456.37531.332254.649590@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16457.2596.24094.981393@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> The connector is a DB-15 with unusual latches, but if you ignore >> the latches then a stock DB-15 will work. Tony> Actually, it's a DA15 (the DB15 doesn't exist AFAIK), and Tony> normally has the standard slidelock latches. I've never heard of DA-anything; the terminology I'm familiar with is DB-n where N can be 9, 15, 25, even 37... DB-9 is the PC serial connector; that shell also is used (with 3 rows of pins) for VGA. DB-15, the AUI connector shell, is the same height as DB-9 and DB-25 but in between for width. The pin spacing and pin arrangement (i.e., one row offset a half pitch from the other) is the same for all three. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 5 17:16:51 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10403052228.ZM19683@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16457.2659.259090.6981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: Pete> On Mar 5, 9:37, Paul Koning wrote: >> There was some prototype 10Base5 cable that was yellow PE, though. Pete> It >> had black stripes to mark transceiver spacing. So it got the Pete> nickname >> "yellowjacket". Pete> According to the standard, the markings are supposed to be on Pete> all 10base5 cable; they're to indicate where it's safe to put a Pete> transceiver, and where to cut the cable at the ends. They're Pete> every 2.5 metres, and there should be at least two between Pete> transceivers. However, I've seen cable that didn't have the Pete> bands, but it was probably ordinary coax rather than intended Pete> specifically for ethernet. The "yellowjacket" prototype cable I was talking about was (at DEC) replaced by teflon jacketed cable that was a dull orange color. Both had stripes (the teflon cable stripes weren't as easy to see, teflon is hard to mark). It sounds like other manufacturers may have stuck with the yellow color (and perhaps using polyethylene rather than teflon for the outer jacket). The rules aren't quite what you said -- the transceiver rule is that you put them on the stripes. You can put transceivers on adjacent stripes. Cable ends are NOT at stripes; the recommended cable lengths are funny numbers chosen to get reflections not accumulate over multiple segments. The rule says "odd multiples of a half wave at 5 MHz, which translates to odd multiples of 23.4 meters. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 5 17:22:46 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: Message-ID: <16457.3014.790838.17862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> If they are both referred to as DA, why? If not, what is the >> proper designation (since DB is the typical 25-pin shell size)? Tony> The letter gives the shell size. Interesting. Learned something new... so I guess the series is called "D-sub" (or D-subminiature) -- and the one people got used to is the RS232 connector, DB25, so they started thinking that "DB" is correct for the whole series. Thanks... paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Mar 5 17:28:53 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403051828.53492.pat@computer-refuge.org> I can fill in a couple more data points for Tony : ) On Friday 05 March 2004 18:05, Tony Duell wrote: > DA26 : never seen it used Used on an NCD 88k color x-windows terminal for video. Probably also used on other things. > DB44 : Ditto Used by DigiBoard on some of their serial concentrators - PORTS/16em boxes and PC/Xem (and other) cards. > THey're used for plenty of other things, so please don't moan that > I've not mentioned your favourite machine there (I suspect if I said > things like 'DA15 : PERQ video sync/keboard/mouse signals, it would > help nobody). I am trying to mention machines that you're likely to > have seen. I'm not moaning just trying to be helpful :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 5 17:30:21 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: DBlist (was: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <16457.2596.24094.981393@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16456.37531.332254.649590@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16457.2596.24094.981393@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040305152421.O29015@newshell.lmi.net> > Tony> Actually, it's a DA15 (the DB15 doesn't exist AFAIK), and > Tony> normally has the standard slidelock latches. On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > I've never heard of DA-anything; the terminology I'm familiar with is It's nothing to be ashamed of, MOST of the public is ignorant about that. > DB-n where N can be 9, 15, 25, even 37... wrong > DB-9 is the PC serial connector; That's RIGHT! The original (5150) PC used a 25 pin connector (DB25), but not all of the signals were always used. Therefore, a DB25 that implements 1-8 and 20 would be a DB9! > that shell also is used (with 3 rows of pins) for VGA. > DB-15, the AUI connector shell, is the same height as DB-9 and DB-25 > but in between for width. The pin spacing and pin arrangement (i.e., > one row offset a half pitch from the other) is the same for all three. WRONG. It is a COMMON misconception. So common that the clueless clerk at Radio Shack never heard of the difference, and most suppliers don't CARE about the "correct" designation. Very similar in its level of acceptance to thinking that a kilobyte is 1000 bytes, or that a megabyte is 1000000 bytes. (and 1024000 bytes in a megabyte indicates a total lack of intelligence) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Mar 5 17:40:19 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? Message-ID: >> DA26 : never seen it used > >Used on an NCD 88k color x-windows terminal for video. Probably also >used on other things. IIRC, its also used on the Apple DOS cards. I'd have to go check a cable to be sure, but I'm pretty sure its 26 pins, in a DA shell (same size shell as AUI uses) -chris From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Mar 5 17:54:05 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > As Paul and der Mouse suggested, I agree that it would be worth making > > up a short flexible AUI cable. Cat 5 is 100-ohm, and ribbon cable is > > not far off that IIRC; you could use STP instead of UTP to get the > > shield (some Sun cables are STP), or just ignore it for really a short > > (a few inches) cable. Or a chunk of old good-quality serial cable > > I wonder if IDC cable would work for a very short (a few inches) length? > Just enough to turn the transceiver 'round the corner' or whatever. > > -tony > Sure, as long as the cable is short, flat cable works fine (I've used it many times). Using the 1/6 rise time rule of thumb and assuming a pessimistically fast 5 ns rise time and a very slow cable with 1/2 C progation rate, gives you a maximum impedance mismatch length of about 6 inches. Peter Wallace From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 5 18:00:50 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 05 March 2004 21:53 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Old Tandy Computer Equipment > > I hope folks realize that when you reply to these messages on > the list, the original sender is probably not getting your > reply. You should also include the original senders e-mail > address as a CC when you reply to these. Arses. Yes, yer right, I should've cc'd Les in on this one....... Cheers w From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Mar 5 18:00:55 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: KL-10 question Message-ID: <1078531255.6149.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, Does anyone know how much 3-phase power (at say 220v) a KL-10 requires? I just acquired some commercial space to move my collection into and I noticed today that there are several 220v 3-phase power drops that I hadn't noticed previously. I'm kind of hoping that I'll have enough 3-phase to be able to start resurecting my KL-10, but I need to know how much I need. Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Mar 5 18:12:27 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4049176B.7030807@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > DA26 : never seen it used INMOS used them on the back of the B300 box as a differential transputer link connector. The B300 would have four DA26 sockets, one for each of the four links. It then had an ethernet AUI port for connection to a TCP/IP network. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 18:43:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > When you say DA-15, do you mean a connector the same size as that of a > > 9-pin serial cable, or the next size up as on a typical Macintosh display? > > DA = the one that's the same size as a Mac video connector (or PC > joystick port). > > DE = the one that's the same size as a PC 9 pin serial port Ok, I thought I had this down from the last time you discussed it but some stuff obviously didn't set in. Thanks for the clarification. > (FWIW, the following exist. > > Normal High Density > DE9 DE15 > DA15 DA26 > DB25 DB44 > DC37 DC62 > DD50 The letters don't necessarily indicate a progression in size, which is stupid. Who comes up with this crap? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 18:47:53 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: MS BASIC for a Panasonic HHC RL-H1400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040306004753.53584.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Mine came in a brown soft case, from a company called Southern Farm Bureau Life Insurance. --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > Searching has indicated that a ROM "capsule" > containing a version of > > > MicroSoft BASIC was available. Does anyone have > one of these capsules, or > > > a dump of a ROM that can be written to a new > ROM? The computers that I > > > have came from insurance agents and have > insurance software on the ROMs > > > that came with the computers. > > > The insurance ROMs are Motorola MCM 68764C and > appear to be UVEPROMs. > > > > You and the rest of the HHC community. I've got an > HHC myself, and all > > mine has are the insurance EPROMs, too. I've done > some snooping and found > > other HHC owners, and they're looking for these > mythical BASIC ROMs just > > as feverishly! > > A few years ago I was heading up a bulk purchase of > these things from a > guy who acquired them from an insurance agency in > Canada or something. We > had a couple dozen units spoken for and then the > seller pulled out. I > forget what he ended up doing with them but I think > he found a more > lucrative avenue (eBay maybe). I wouldn't be > surprised if the ones you > have are from this guy, but then again the HHC was > used in a lot of > insurance applications, probably originating from > the same company that > modified them for actuarial operation and sold them > off to various > insurance agencies. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 18:49:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, chris wrote: > >> DA26 : never seen it used > > > >Used on an NCD 88k color x-windows terminal for video. Probably also > >used on other things. > > IIRC, its also used on the Apple DOS cards. I'd have to go check a cable > to be sure, but I'm pretty sure its 26 pins, in a DA shell (same size > shell as AUI uses) That's not correct. The size of the shell is between a DA and DB, and it has 19 pins. I have no idea what it would be, but since there's no letter between A and B (at least the last time I checked my ABCs), and since DC, DD and DE are taken, I would imagine it's maybe DF or something else illogically unsequential. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 5 18:49:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: References: <001801c402ca$ecafa580$0300000a@Les> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040305194958.0083a3e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:49 PM 3/5/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Les Goulden wrote: > >> I have some old Tandy computer equipment and many secondhand 8" Disks. I >> have been told that you might be interested? Who are you and what do you >> do? My name is Les and I live in Plymouth. > >Sounds like a Tandy 12 or 16, or a TRS-80 Model II. Or a 6000. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 5 19:01:12 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040305165744.M29015@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > DA = the one that's the same size as a Mac video connector (or PC > > joystick port). > > DE = the one that's the same size as a PC 9 pin serial port > The letters don't necessarily indicate a progression in size, which is > stupid. Who comes up with this crap? I'm guessing that when they came up with DA, DB, DC, and DD, (and called them "SUB-miniature"!), that it didn't occur to them that eventually some even smaller sizes would be needed. IOW, the sequence is chronological! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 5 19:11:42 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 9836 SIMMs & SMS Sprint was Re: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <404889BA.737BD4D7@comcast.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040304205416.008c9420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040305201142.0083c530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I had a bit of time to look at some of the smaller items that I picked up yesterday. One of them is a small box with a 28 pin ZIF socket on it and a ribbon cable coming out of it. It's marked "Sprint" and "SMS". I did some searching on the net and I believe that it's part of a programmer made by SMS Gmbh in Germany but I couldn't find any details on what kind of ICs that it programmed. They have since been bought out by Data I/O and their programmers have be discontinued. Does anyone know more about their stuff? One of the odd things about this unit is that it has a 5 position DIP switch on it marked "filter". Anyone know what that's for? Also found an interesting memory card in one of the HP 9836s. This one is made by Newport Digital and it holds four 30 pin memory SIMMs. I haven't had time to play with it yet and I don't know how much memory is on but it appears to be 1 Mb. Does anyone know anything about these? I went back today and picked up more stuff but that's a story for another day. Joe From cb at mythtech.net Fri Mar 5 19:17:47 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? Message-ID: >> IIRC, its also used on the Apple DOS cards. I'd have to go check a cable >> to be sure, but I'm pretty sure its 26 pins, in a DA shell (same size >> shell as AUI uses) > >That's not correct. The size of the shell is between a DA and DB, and it >has 19 pins. Are you sure? Are you thinking of the same cable that I am? I just did a quick check, and I found via Google a page that gives the pinout for the Mac's PC Compatibility Card's cable. It shows it as a 26 pin connector. I'm no longer at work where my cables are, so I can't physically inspect them. I thought the connector on the DOS Compatibility card was the same "physical" connector that is on the PC Compatibility card (although the cables, and I believe the pinouts are different). Again, I can't physically check mine, so I can't be 100% sure. Maybe the DOS card version was different (I know the cable for the DOS card is a 4 headed cable as it breaks out the joystick via the cable, while the cable for the PC card is a 3 headed cable with the joystick port residing on the card itself). And of course, Apple had a 3rd style card for the Performa 630/640 DOS model. I haven't really played much with mine of that model, so I don't know what it has (actually, I seem to recall that it didn't use a loopback cable at all) And then there are always the Orange Micro versions, all bets are off with those. I've never really played with them. But maybe you are thinking of a different card then I am. Apple also had an Apple IIe card for the Mac that had a loopback cable. I don't recall what it has for connectors. And I have no idea what possible cards there were for the Apple II series, or what possible other similar cards were for the Mac beyond Apple's, Orange Micro's, and Reply's (which was really the same as the first Apple card as it was built by Reply and first only available from Apple, later to be available directly from Reply) -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 5 19:21:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: WinSystems LPM/MPM 7109 card? was Re: New Finds Today Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040305202124.0083b9b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yesterday I picked up two shoebox sized units that were marked as "enviromental units". However they had lights marked Tx, Rx, etc and a Comm port. Inside it had a STD bus chassis with three cards installed. On has a 80C31 CPU, one has a Zilog Z0853004 comm chip and the other has a MAXIM ICL7109CPL A/D convertor. The first two cards appear to be custom made and are probably useless for anything except the system they were designed for. However the third card (with A/D) is a standard commercail product and was made by WinSystems and is their model LPM/MCM-7109. Does anyone have any data on this card? It's not on WinSystems website and I tried to contact them and ask about it but they were less than cooperative. Joe From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Mar 5 20:04:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040306020459.GA15875@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 11:05:50PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > DA26 : never seen it used I have a Cisco AGS+ router (big box with, I think, Multibus slots) and a quad low-speed (i.e., not 1.544Mbps) card. The connectors on the back are DA26s and I have no cables. :-( These are *not* the same as the newer Cisco cables with pins on a square grid. > DB44 : Ditto I have a Planar-brand 486 with built-in flatpanel, internal 2.5" IDE drive, one ISA slot, PCMCIA, optional onboard 10Base2 NIC, etc, with a DB25 external floppy connector and a DB44 external IDE CD-ROM connector. I megged out the floppy port and built a cable for it. Since I don't have any DB44 cables, I never bothered figuring out the pinout for the CD-ROM. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 06-Mar-2004 01:58 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.1 F (-51.2 C) Windchill -60.1 F (-51.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 3.1 kts Grid 129 Barometer 678.6 mb (10679. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Mar 5 20:11:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: WinSystems LPM/MPM 7109 card? was Re: New Finds Today Message-ID: <200403060211.SAA02903@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe The 7109 was made by many manufactures and is a common A/D. It is a dual slope type. Quite accurate when comparing to a reference. It has one funny feature that isn't usually mentioned in the data sheets. If you get an over range, it will transfer some additional energy to the Auto-Zero capacitor. This can take many convertion cycles to recover from. When used with an input mux, make sure that you either have a wait after overrange or some way to clamp it below full scale. Even a single lsb of overscale has significant effect because of the amplification used to do the auto-zero. A single lsb of overscale can be over 100 lsb's on the next read, depending on the A-Z capacitor size. Not good when you are looking to get the most out of the 12 bits. As for the board, maybe just some tracing out will determine the addressing so that you can play with it. I have a 80C188 processor board for the STD with a Forth in Flash on it. I find Forth to be real handy for poking ( and peeking ) at unknown boards such as these. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > Yesterday I picked up two shoebox sized units that were marked as >"enviromental units". However they had lights marked Tx, Rx, etc and a Comm >port. Inside it had a STD bus chassis with three cards installed. On has a >80C31 CPU, one has a Zilog Z0853004 comm chip and the other has a MAXIM >ICL7109CPL A/D convertor. The first two cards appear to be custom made and >are probably useless for anything except the system they were designed for. >However the third card (with A/D) is a standard commercail product and was >made by WinSystems and is their model LPM/MCM-7109. Does anyone have any >data on this card? It's not on WinSystems website and I tried to contact >them and ask about it but they were less than cooperative. > > Joe > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 5 21:04:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, chris wrote: > >> IIRC, its also used on the Apple DOS cards. I'd have to go check a cable > >> to be sure, but I'm pretty sure its 26 pins, in a DA shell (same size > >> shell as AUI uses) > > > >That's not correct. The size of the shell is between a DA and DB, and it > >has 19 pins. > > Are you sure? Are you thinking of the same cable that I am? > I just did a quick check, and I found via Google a page that gives the > pinout for the Mac's PC Compatibility Card's cable. It shows it as a 26 > pin connector. Oh sorry, I thought you were referring to the Apple ][ disk drive connector. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wmaddox at pacbell.net Fri Mar 5 21:44:32 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Source for PDP-8/E console lamps? Message-ID: <20040306034432.86313.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know of a source for replacement lamps for a PDP-8/E console? I have an otherwise immaculate console board that I would like to use in its original condition, e.g., w/o an LED conversion, but one of the bulbs has been broken, and, at any rate, additional failures are likely. Thanks, Bill From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 21:53:51 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: The story finally make the paper. Message-ID: Message: 2 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:00:09 -0500 From: "Brian Mahoney" >Almost a year ago, April 24, 2003, the Toronto Star did an article on >collecting featuring myself and Kevin Stumpf. Even though the guy took lots >of shots in my basement, regretfully only Kevin made the big time, standing >in front of his ex-Ontario Power Generating IBM 1800. (Maybe it was >because >he had a tie on and I didn't.) >We got the whole back page of the Technology Today section, well ... except >for a gigantic Canon ad. Kevin's site was mentioned as was my own >collector's list at Geocities (which everyone here should be on!) >If there is any interest, I could scan this aticle and put it up on my site >for a bit. >BM Ping! By a staggering coincidence, the 1800 mentioned (which is mine - Kevin had been storing it for me) finally showed up at the Corestore today, in a very large truck! I'll be updating the web page below with more photos tomorrow night. A couple of the pics from the article mentioned (I presume the same article) are at: http://www.corestore.org/1800.htm If I can get my arse into gear and this thing running, I'll drag it to VCF East... IPL diagnostics from punched cards, wheeeeeee! :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 22:58:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <16457.2596.24094.981393@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Mar 5, 4 06:15:48 pm Message-ID: > > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: > > >> The connector is a DB-15 with unusual latches, but if you ignore > >> the latches then a stock DB-15 will work. > > Tony> Actually, it's a DA15 (the DB15 doesn't exist AFAIK), and > Tony> normally has the standard slidelock latches. > > I've never heard of DA-anything; the terminology I'm familiar with is > DB-n where N can be 9, 15, 25, even 37... DB-9 is the PC serial That's because the DB shell size was the most common (DB25 is used for real RS232 ports and PC parallel ports), so some people decided that _all_ such connectors are called 'DBn'. But the letter really indicates the shell size (there are 5 standard ones, and 2 (at least) less standard ones). > connector; that shell also is used (with 3 rows of pins) for VGA. > DB-15, the AUI connector shell, is the same height as DB-9 and DB-25 In which case DB15 means both the AUI conenctor and the PC VGA connector. And yet they're very different! (the former is a DA15, the latter a DE15, of course) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 22:59:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <16457.3014.790838.17862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Mar 5, 4 06:22:46 pm Message-ID: > Interesting. Learned something new... so I guess the series is called > "D-sub" (or D-subminiature) -- and the one people got used to is the > RS232 connector, DB25, so they started thinking that "DB" is correct > for the whole series. Precisely -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 23:02:29 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: DBlist (was: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <20040305152421.O29015@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 5, 4 03:30:21 pm Message-ID: > > DB-9 is the PC serial connector; > That's RIGHT! The original (5150) PC used a 25 pin connector (DB25), but > not all of the signals were always used. > Therefore, a DB25 that implements 1-8 and 20 would be a DB9! What about a DB shell connector that implements 2-8, 20, 22 (those are the pins copied on the DE9 PC/AT serial port IIRC) ;-)... Semi-seriously, I have plenty of serial cables that do only have pins 1-8 and 20 fitted. Quite a common arrangement. And yes, I have been known to call them DB9s as a joke. Problem is, if I ask for that down the local PC shoop, I'll get a cable with a DE9 connector on the end. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 23:06:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 5, 4 04:43:25 pm Message-ID: > > Normal High Density > > DE9 DE15 > > DA15 DA26 > > DB25 DB44 > > DC37 DC62 > > DD50 > > The letters don't necessarily indicate a progression in size, which is I suspect (without proof) that initially there were just DA-DD shells. Then somebody decided to make a smaller version with 9 pins. They had to call it the DE shell (calling it the D@ shell would have been stupid! [1]). > stupid. Who comes up with this crap? Cannon connectors? (Note, I do mean Cannon and not Canon). [1] Since '@' comes just before 'A' in ASCII, and since, like all good hackers [2], I start counting from zero, I have been known to use '@' as a lstter 0 when identifying sections of a document, etc. [2] I am not claiming to be a good hacker (or any kind of hacker) here. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 5 23:08:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 5, 4 04:49:25 pm Message-ID: > That's not correct. The size of the shell is between a DA and DB, and it > has 19 pins. I have no idea what it would be, but since there's no letter > between A and B (at least the last time I checked my ABCs), and since DC, > DD and DE are taken, I would imagine it's maybe DF or something else > illogically unsequential. I have seen the 19 pin connector (Mac external disk drive port, ST DMA port) called a DF19. I have no idea if this is official, though. Similarly, I've seen the 23 pin version (Amiga video) called a DG23. -tony From vrs at msn.com Sat Mar 6 00:05:07 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Source for PDP-8/E console lamps? References: <20040306034432.86313.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Does anyone know of a source for replacement > lamps for a PDP-8/E console? I have an otherwise > immaculate console board that I would like to > use in its original condition, e.g., w/o an > LED conversion, but one of the bulbs has been > broken, and, at any rate, additional failures > are likely. Looking at the schematic (not the most legible), it looks like the part number is 1209219, the same bulb used in the 8/L? If so, the CM2309 is an equivalent, and the CM7371 is what I think is a viable substitute, available at $13.92 for a 10-pack, from www.newark.com. Vince From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Mar 6 00:15:14 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Witchy heeft op vrijdag, 5 maa 2004 om 21:51 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: > > Hi Les, > > You've reached the classiccmp mailing list, which has many members > spread > all over the US and Europe, You forgot to mention Antartica....... Jos From vrs at msn.com Sat Mar 6 00:40:49 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: Source for PDP-8/E console lamps? References: <20040306034432.86313.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Does anyone know of a source for replacement > lamps for a PDP-8/E console? I have an otherwise > immaculate console board that I would like to > use in its original condition, e.g., w/o an > LED conversion, but one of the bulbs has been > broken, and, at any rate, additional failures > are likely. I was able to confirm in the 8/e maintenance manual that the bulb is the 1209219 (page 5-1). Robert Krten also describes a technique for taking Augat machine sockets and making sockets for the bi-pin bulbs, to minimize soldering/desoldering on the relatively delicate fron-panel traces. www.arrow.com lists the CM2309 for $1.38, but with unknown availability. Vince From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Mar 6 01:04:41 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: making PT reader, was re:weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c40349$4c21dc80$4d4d2c0a@atx> Tony wrote: > > There have been several designs for homebrew readers, the schematic of > one is in the back of the S100 handbook. The unidentified chips in that > schemaitc are obviously 555 timers, used as schmitt triggers (!). The > only difficult thing to make is the photodiode array for the read head. I > wonder if you could use plastic fibre-optic cable to lead the light from > a row of holes to some normal-size photodetectors mounted on a PCB in a > convenient arrangement. It would be easier than finding some > photodetectors that you could mount on 0.1" centres. > One further catch if you are building a tape reader ... or doing a "radical rebuild"* on a very old design: make sure that the power to the light source is reasonably well smoothed ... an AC ripple here can lead to mysterious inconsistencies when trying to read tapes :-) * before Tony is inclined to accuse me of vandalism here, I'll mention that this "rebuild" took place 20 more than years ago when I acquire a couple of old (then!) ex-mainframe tape readers and converted most of the electronics from discrete (which I didn't understand) to TTL (which I could get to work) to interface to a home-brew 6800 system. Andy From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Mar 6 01:15:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:57 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403060732.CAA03967@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> The size of the shell is between a DA and DB, and it has 19 pins. I >> have no idea what it would be, but since there's no letter between A >> and B Depends on the alphabet in use; in Cyrillic, at least as I learnt it back in the late '70s, A is the first letter of the alphabet and B (pronounced like English V) is the third; the second looks to a Western eye a bit like a capital Greek gamma overstruck with a Latin lowercase b, and corresponds to English B. If your mail client does proper multipart/mixed rendering and you have KOI-8 available (and I didn't botch constructing the multipart message :), the Cyrillic alphabet as I learnt it begins -------------- next part -------------- ????? -------------- next part -------------- .... Yes, this is a totally irrelevant trivium. :) > I have seen the 19 pin connector (Mac external disk drive port, ST > DMA port) called a DF19. Is that the connector NeXTen used for video/keyboard? Same pin spacing and narrow dimension as the DE/DA/DB connectors but 19 pins wide? > I have no idea if this is official, though. Who's the keeper of "official" for such things? ANSI? ISO? IEEE? I hope that maybe this time I can remember which letter corresponds to which shell. I've known for a long time that they weren't all strictly DB, but had never managed to get it straight which size was which letter. Are the same shell codes used for connectors not using either of those pin spacings? For example, the connector commonly called 13W3 (used for video on some Suns and, I think, SGIs) uses a DB-sized shell, and DE9/DA15/DB25 pin spacing for the ten pins that aren't co-ax connectors; is there some suitable DB name for it? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 6 01:47:06 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: making PT reader, was re:weird find: papertape "patch" puncher References: <002c01c40349$4c21dc80$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <404981FA.6010001@jetnet.ab.ca> Andy Holt wrote: > One further catch if you are building a tape reader ... or doing a "radical > rebuild"* on a very old design: make sure that the power to the light source > is reasonably well smoothed ... an AC ripple here can lead to mysterious > inconsistencies when trying to read tapes :-) Bring in the heafy 12 volt power supply and bulb. :) > * before Tony is inclined to accuse me of vandalism here, I'll mention that > this "rebuild" took place 20 more than years ago when I acquire a couple of > old (then!) ex-mainframe tape readers and converted most of the electronics > from discrete (which I didn't understand) to TTL (which I could get to work) > to interface to a home-brew 6800 system. So where does one get a punch cheap too??? Ben. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Mar 6 01:51:32 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403051828.53492.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200403051828.53492.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200403060800.DAA04085@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Speaking of interesting D-shell connectors, I have another sighting of the DC37: I have a Magma SBus card that has what I assume is a DC37M on the card and a DC37F on its octopus cable (which isn't strictly an _octo_pus cable, as it breaks out into only three cables: two DB25M serial and one DB25F parallel). I say "I assume" because I'm not certain, in view of the DD50's three rows of pins, that this thing actually is what you mean by a DC37 - it's DE9/DA15/DB25 width and pin spacing, but stretched out until it's 37 pins long. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Mar 6 00:40:44 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Old Tandy Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040306064044.GA4480@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 07:15:14AM +0100, Jos Dreesen wrote: > >You've reached the classiccmp mailing list, which has many members > >spread all over the US and Europe, > > You forgot to mention Antartica....... :-) ... and of course, right next door, N.Z. and Oz. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 06-Mar-2004 06:39 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -61 F (-51.7 C) Windchill -83.90 F (-64.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.3 kts Grid 064 Barometer 678.1 mb (10699. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Mar 6 04:12:49 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: making PT reader, was re:weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <404981FA.6010001@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001c01c40363$94604800$4d4d2c0a@atx> > So where does one get a punch cheap too??? > Ben. > was difficult enough then (~1980) - very much harder now. A large proportion of UK mainframes of the first 3 generations had at least one paper-tape reader ... it was the normal boot slow peripheral (mag tape being the typical default boot fast peripheral). This is in contrast to the situation in the USA where it appears that cards ruled supreme. Many of these tape readers were medium speed (300cps), but 1200cps ones were not uncommon and a Danish(?) company made a fantastic 2000cps reader that was also fully bidirectional. Though the second generation machines made much use of papertape, tape punches were less important and less common on the 3rd generation machines as now magnetic tapes and even disks were the preferred devices for output that was to be reinput. They were also rarely high performance (200cps was the fastest common version). Oh, and ISTR that the Atlas used 7-track paper tape (6 bit+parity) Andy From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 6 05:27:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "Re: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 5, 18:16) References: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10403052228.ZM19683@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16457.2659.259090.6981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10403061127.ZM20292@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 18:16, Paul Koning wrote: > The rules aren't quite what you said -- the transceiver rule is that > you put them on the stripes. You can put transceivers on adjacent > stripes. You can, but I was always told (and read somewhere) there should be two stripes between, not one. > Cable ends are NOT at stripes; the recommended cable > lengths are funny numbers chosen to get reflections not accumulate > over multiple segments. The rule says "odd multiples of a half wave > at 5 MHz, which translates to odd multiples of 23.4 meters. I agree, I forgot about that. Oops! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 6 05:35:37 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 5, 22:47) References: Message-ID: <10403061135.ZM20298@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 22:47, Tony Duell wrote: > > As Paul and der Mouse suggested, I agree that it would be worth making > > up a short flexible AUI cable. Cat 5 is 100-ohm, and ribbon cable is > > not far off that IIRC; you could use STP instead of UTP to get the > > shield (some Sun cables are STP), or just ignore it for really a short > > (a few inches) cable. Or a chunk of old good-quality serial cable > > I wonder if IDC cable would work for a very short (a few inches) length? > Just enough to turn the transceiver 'round the corner' or whatever. I'm fairly sure it would, and that's what I meant when I mentioned ribbon cable. Didn't der Mouse suggest that? I have a Newbridge ATM Route Server which is a Sun chassis mounted in a Newbridge box, and I'm fairly sure it has a similar arrangement to connect the Sun port to the panel on the Newbridge case. I'm a great believer in adhering to standards. Most of the time :-) In this case the standard says, in effect, "use this cable and this layout and it's guaranteed to work". It doesn't say it's guaranteed not to work if you don't :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 6 10:47:27 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: It seems to have died... Message-ID: After wanting a Commodore 64 SX for such a long time, a kind man finally gave me one. (it was the victim of a garage-clean out. I got it back home and it worked fine for a while. later that night I was writing basic programs and this strange color washed over it's little screen then it went blank. Cycling power did not restore any picture. I left it unplugged overnight, (thinking the problem may have been heat related) but it's still in the same state this morning. Any one have any knowledge? Is it really dead? Is there anything I can do? From HLBebb at webtv.net Fri Mar 5 19:01:15 2004 From: HLBebb at webtv.net (Hellen Bebb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Wire recorders Message-ID: <3839-404922DB-5259@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net> Hello, I found your e-mail when I was searching for wire recorders. I thought perhaps you could help me. I am 85 years old and have some wire tapes of my children and would love to convert them onto cassette or CD. I live in Wsburg , Va. Would you have any contacts of anyone who could help me? Thank you. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Mar 5 23:52:44 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: PDP-8/A board info Message-ID: <200403060552.AAA25030707@shell.TheWorld.com> >I'm trying to figure out what this board is/does. It's a DEC hex height >board marked M8597A. On the back it's also marked PDP 8A Control. DX10, PDP8 interface Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 6 11:28:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: making PT reader, was re:weird find: papertape "patch" puncher In-Reply-To: <002c01c40349$4c21dc80$4d4d2c0a@atx> from "Andy Holt" at Mar 6, 4 07:04:41 am Message-ID: > One further catch if you are building a tape reader ... or doing a "radical > rebuild"* on a very old design: make sure that the power to the light source > is reasonably well smoothed ... an AC ripple here can lead to mysterious > inconsistencies when trying to read tapes :-) Indeed. Better designed readers are relatively insensitive to light source variations [1] but I suspect a 50Hz/60Hz/100Hz/120Hz ripple would cause problems. Most readers seem to use 12V (car) or 24V (lorry) bulbs. They have the advantage of being easy to obtain, and can be run off easy-to-make regulated supplies. [1[ The Trneds I mentioned have a total of 10 photodiodes in the read head. One on each data track, 2 on the sprocket track, spaced 0.25" (2.5 characters) apart. A cheacter is in the right position to be read when the signal from the feed hole sensor exceeds that from the other sensor by a certain threshold. A weighted average of the signals from these 2 sensors is then used as the threshold for the data tracks. This system is relativelty insensitive to light source variations, transparanecy of the tape, etc. There are treakers on the PCB to set various thresholds, etc, but I have never found their settings to be critical! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 6 11:29:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403060732.CAA03967@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Mar 6, 4 02:15:52 am Message-ID: > > I have seen the 19 pin connector (Mac external disk drive port, ST > > DMA port) called a DF19. > > Is that the connector NeXTen used for video/keyboard? Same pin spacing > and narrow dimension as the DE/DA/DB connectors but 19 pins wide? I beleive so. The desciption certainly fits. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 6 11:31:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403060800.DAA04085@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Mar 6, 4 02:51:32 am Message-ID: > I say "I assume" because I'm not certain, in view of the DD50's three Yes, but IIRC, the pin spacing on the DD50 is the same as on, say, a DB25. It's just that there are 3 rows of them. > rows of pins, that this thing actually is what you mean by a DC37 - > it's DE9/DA15/DB25 width and pin spacing, but stretched out until it's > 37 pins long. Yes, that's the DC37. 2 rows of pins. -tony From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 07:31:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: testing 1 2 3 Message-ID: <002301c40511$abf72420$033310ac@kwcorp.com> what fun --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jbasauri at PPI-Timezero.com Mon Mar 8 07:17:31 2004 From: jbasauri at PPI-Timezero.com (Jaime Basauri) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: RSX-11M manual Message-ID: Hello ! Do you still have the manual for the RSX-11M operating system? If you do let me know how can I get it? Thank you, Jaime Basauri From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 07:35:30 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo Message-ID: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> anyone there? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Mar 8 08:00:39 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo In-Reply-To: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Mar 8, 04 07:35:30 am Message-ID: <200403081400.JAA23315@wordstock.com> And thusly Jay West spake: > > anyone there? over here! From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Mar 8 08:07:22 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F6B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Yep! - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: maandag 8 maart 2004 14:36 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: yoohooo > > > anyone there? > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Mar 8 08:14:43 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo In-Reply-To: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040308141443.GC27727@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 07:35:30AM -0600, Jay West wrote: > anyone there? Yes. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Mar-2004 14:09 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.4 F (-57.5 C) Windchill -97.8 F (-72.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.6 kts Grid 087 Barometer 670 mb (11005. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Mon Mar 8 08:20:17 2004 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo In-Reply-To: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Still here. I was wondering why I haven't received anything lately LOL. Must just be quiet. Although, I did send a reply to the list a day or so ago and have yet to see it come in. I am just subscribed to the moderated list and figured you were busy. Greg Manuel -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:36 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: yoohooo anyone there? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Mar 8 08:22:01 2004 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo In-Reply-To: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <404C8189.60106@satx.rr.com> Jay West wrote: >anyone there? >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > >Still here...Lurking away... > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 08:13:50 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! Message-ID: <008901c40517$944edec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok I'm extremely irked. Friday afternoon the classiccmp server decided it didn't have a slave drive. It has done this once or twice before, for some reason the system can't see the drive anymore so it flags it as non-existent. Usually after a reboot it goes fine for a few months at least. Most odd. I'm guessing it's the crappy Western Digital 160gb drive I bought. Don't think I'll be getting any more Western Digital for a while. It came back up friday afternoon and I saw a few emails go through the list so I assumed all was well again. Stupid Me. So I promptly decided to ignore the list for the weekend, had a very full weekend with lots of other stuff (work & home) to do. Sunday night I noticed that the list hadn't passed any traffic since friday night. First thing I checked was the drive, but that was ok. It was a very bizzare odd problem. Sendmail appeared to be working fine but mailman wasn't queueing any messages. Both inbound and outbound mail were definitely working though. Odd - the pid files for mailman were dated in the future, but the system date was correct (and had been). I tried pretty much every trick I could think of to no avail. I finally gave up around 1am and said the heck with it, I needed sleep and have some WorkStuff to take care of. Tonight will probably be an all nighter due to a different work-related server issue. I had even tried re-installing mailman 212, figuring a binary got corrupted in the fiasco friday afternoon. No Joy. Looks like all messages were sent to the shunt directory, which means a mailman executable failed. Some message about can't unicode because bytes 0-4 are not cardinal. Ick. So this morning I upgraded to mailman 2.1.4. That seems to have done the trick. Pid files are still dated in the future though. What fun. All appears to be back up and running. I apologize for the extended outtage. You'll forgive me if I ignore this list for a few days, I just don't want to think about the server for a bit. It's self-interest, I figure if I stay away from it for a few days I won't be so ready to unplug it and chuck it out the 2nd story datacenter window. Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Mar 8 08:41:33 2004 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: FA: MicroVAX II and other Q-bus cards on eBay Message-ID: I just posted several Q-bus cards including a MicroVAX II CPU and memory to eBay. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rexstout -- ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------ From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 8 08:50:26 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? Message-ID: <200403081450.i28EoQj26189@mwave.heeltoe.com> [resend - looks like original got lost this weekend] Hi, If anyone has diagnostic experience with an R80 or RA81, I'd like to pick your brain a little... If this is better done off line, email is fine. I suspect not everyone is interested on how to revive an R80 :-) (why *I* find it infinitely fascinating is something I'll never understand) I have an R80 which does not spin up or come ready: - All of the voltages are good (all the ones I checked anyway). - The drive belt had come off but I managed to get it back on - I can't seem to get it into diagnostic mode; the 8 leds' on the bottom pcb show 0101 0101 (hex 55). - When it powers up all of the external lights go on and stay on. - if I reset (click the switch ont the pcb to "R", the lights go out - if I then push the run/start it lights and after about 5 seconds the fault light comes on and run/start goes out. - if I push the fault light all lights go on and then the right most one stays on - push fault again and they all go out (I can then repeat the run/start sequence) I'm guessing the above behavior means the micro is operating, but then I set the rotaries to "FF" and hit 'enter' (i.e. put the toggle to 'E') the led's don't change at all. The manual says they should flash and change as a I enter diag mode. I wanted to use diag more to force a spin up but no joy. Does the unit have to be connected to a controller to go into diag mode? I have an RB730 which this connects to. Connecting is does not seem to really change it's behavior. -brad From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Mar 8 09:02:10 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F6C@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> A little info can be found here: www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/ra81-info.html According to the table, when the rightmost light [B] stays on (and the FAULT light of course), it would mean you have spin-up problems. Did you tension the belt with the lever at the right-hand side (at least there it is in an RA81 drive)? success, - Henk, PA8PDP > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad@heeltoe.com] > Sent: maandag 8 maart 2004 15:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? > > > > [resend - looks like original got lost this weekend] > > Hi, > > If anyone has diagnostic experience with an R80 or RA81, I'd like to > pick your brain a little... > > If this is better done off line, email is fine. I suspect > not everyone > is interested on how to revive an R80 :-) > > (why *I* find it infinitely fascinating is something I'll > never understand) > > I have an R80 which does not spin up or come ready: > > - All of the voltages are good (all the ones I checked anyway). > - The drive belt had come off but I managed to get it back on > - I can't seem to get it into diagnostic mode; the 8 leds' on the > bottom pcb show 0101 0101 (hex 55). > - When it powers up all of the external lights go on and stay on. > - if I reset (click the switch ont the pcb to "R", the lights go out > - if I then push the run/start it lights and after about 5 seconds > the fault light comes on and run/start goes out. > - if I push the fault light all lights go on and then the right most > one stays on > - push fault again and they all go out (I can then repeat the > run/start sequence) > > I'm guessing the above behavior means the micro is operating, > but then I set the rotaries to "FF" and hit 'enter' (i.e. put the > toggle to 'E') the led's don't change at all. The manual says they > should flash and change as a I enter diag mode. I wanted to use > diag more to force a spin up but no joy. > > Does the unit have to be connected to a controller to go into > diag mode? > I have an RB730 which this connects to. Connecting is does > not seem to really change it's behavior. > > -brad From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 8 09:06:56 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: <200403081415.i28EDYJE000446@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403081415.i28EDYJE000446@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 Guy Sotomayor wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know how much 3-phase power (at say 220v) a KL-10 requires? > > I just acquired some commercial space to move my collection into and I > noticed today that there are several 220v 3-phase power drops that I > hadn't noticed previously. I'm kind of hoping that I'll have enough > 3-phase to be able to start resurecting my KL-10, but I need to know how > much I need. 220V 3-phase? Hmm. I think somewhere around 40A per phase should do it. We ran our KL-10 on 410V 63A/phase, but that was a bit overkill. But I'm also pretty sure that 410V 16A/phase was not enough. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 8 09:10:26 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <200403081415.i28EDYJE000446@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403081415.i28EDYJE000446@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > > > The rules aren't quite what you said -- the transceiver > > rule is that > > > you put them on the stripes. You can put transceivers on adjacent > > > stripes. > > > > You can, but I was always told (and read somewhere) there > > should be two stripes between, not one. > > > Paul's rule (which is the one I was told) is that you can use > *any* stripes and there is *no* requirement for one stripe > in between transceivers (never mind two). > > Given that this stuff was often hidden in suspended ceilings > and suchlike, it would be quite tricky to check that adjacent > stripes (or two adjacent stripes) were unused (I assume the rule > applies in both directions. Surely it would have been easier > to miss out the unusuable stripes? > > OTOH I don't have any documentation to hand that says one > way or the other but I'd be happy to see it written down > unequivocally somewhere. I'm pretty sure that the stripes are at 2.5 m. I'm also pretty sure that the standard says you should have 5 meters between transcievers. But I have actually never really understood why. Maybe just to not damage the cable to much with vampire taps? There cannot be an electrical or signal reason for this, as far as I can tell. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 8 09:25:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Nice Commodore lot... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <404C907F.7080103@atarimuseum.com> Not mine, nice lot of stuff, thought I'd mention it if anyone is looking to get into C64 equipment and is looking for a nice starter set or someone who just can't pass up C64 stuff: http://www.bidiots.com/detail.asp?id=1119&pic=0#img Curt Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 8 09:27:32 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: EBAY??? Message-ID: <404C90E4.57DA071@rain.org> I just read some statistics about the change in direction that Ebay is taking. From AuctionBytes-Update Number 114 - March 7, 2004 - ISSN 1528-6703: "Collectibles comprised 60 percent of the total value of goods sold on eBay in 1999. In 2003, collectibles comprised just 13 percent of gross merchandise sales. Each year, selling on eBay becomes more challenging. If you have a rare and unique item, you'll get a very good price on eBay. Otherwise, in many categories, competition is tough." From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 8 09:43:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: HP Calculator (?) RAM on eBay Message-ID: <008f01c40524$1add78a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Not affiliated with seller. These don't look like anything I've seen before. "20 HP Calculator RAM Mod's #5 1818-2805 NEW" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792071263 The seller here says Calculator. I wouldn't jump so quickly to that conclusion. In the slim chance they fit something a lister has... John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 8 09:43:53 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: EBAY??? References: <404C90E4.57DA071@rain.org> Message-ID: <009201c40524$29b1dba0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > In 2003, collectibles comprised just 13 percent of gross merchandise sales. Sounds like just the by-product of trying to up their volume. When they got all the collectible market, or 90% of it at least, they went grabbing for the target* market. John A. *target and walmart and kmart and... From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 8 09:47:57 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404C90E4.57DA071@rain.org> References: <404C90E4.57DA071@rain.org> Message-ID: <404C95AD.5080408@atarimuseum.com> Hmmmm, thats interesting... I wonder if that's why sites like marketplace.vintage.org specifically for vintage computers and www.bidiots.com for videogames have appeared on the scene and as time has gone by their usage is slowly and steadily increasing. Perhaps ebay's "does it all" model is finally weighing too heavy on them and its sites like VCM, Bidiots and I assume there must be others with their niche-angle are in a very good position to give consumers looking for a specific genre of items to have a specific shopping place for such things. I know I've read people say "I'm not going to use more then 1 site for shopping..." but quite honestly Ebay's searching system is not perfect and I know there have been many times I've missed out on something I wanted or could've used... I think knowing that if I go to VCM to search for DEC related items I will find nothing but those when I do a search instead of also getting results that are just DEC and Qbus cards I'll see Deck Repair Kits, Deck of Cards, Route Q Bus maps and other nonsense. Same applies for when I search for videogames, when I go to look up Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar XJ6 engine parts, Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has nothing to do with videogame related items, so I would much rather go to a site that caters specifically to a category of items I am looking for. I've tried bidville and yahoo auctions and they are too generalized and just don't seem to have whats needed to go toe to toe with EBay, but I think these niche sites are what are going to make a major dent in EBay and will be successful models for buying/selling in the future. Curt Marvin Johnston wrote: >I just read some statistics about the change in direction that Ebay >is taking. From AuctionBytes-Update Number 114 - March 7, 2004 - >ISSN 1528-6703: > >"Collectibles comprised 60 percent of the total value of goods sold on >eBay in 1999. In 2003, collectibles comprised just 13 percent of gross >merchandise sales. > >Each year, selling on eBay becomes more challenging. If you have a >rare and unique item, you'll get a very good price on eBay. Otherwise, >in many categories, competition is tough." > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 8 10:01:45 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10403052228.ZM19683@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16457.2659.259090.6981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10403061127.ZM20292@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16460.39145.754000.4665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: Pete> On Mar 5, 18:16, Paul Koning wrote: >> The rules aren't quite what you said -- the transceiver rule is >> that you put them on the stripes. You can put transceivers on >> adjacent stripes. Pete> You can, but I was always told (and read somewhere) there Pete> should be two stripes between, not one. Interesting. Your source is mistaken... Quoting from the Ethernet Specification, Version 2 (DEC/Intel/Xerox), section 7.6.2: ... Coaxial cables marked as specified in 7.3.1.1.6 have marks at regular 2.5 meters spacing; a transceiver may be placed at any mark on the cable. This guarantees both a minimum spacing between transceivers of 2.5 meters, as well as controlling the relative spacing of transceivers to insure non-alignment on fractional wavelength boundaries. The 802.3 spec agrees with this (section 8.6.2.2). paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 8 10:06:59 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Nice Commodore lot... In-Reply-To: <404C907F.7080103@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 08 March 2004 15:26 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Nice Commodore lot... > > Not mine, nice lot of stuff, thought I'd mention it if anyone > is looking to get into C64 equipment and is looking for a > nice starter set or someone who just can't pass up C64 stuff: > > http://www.bidiots.com/detail.asp?id=1119&pic=0#img Is the C64 much rarer in the US than it is in the UK? I'm only asking because that lot and much more can easily be found every week at a car boot sale/yard sale for generally ukp10 and this bloke is asking a STARTING PRICE of $99 with a BiN of $150!! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Mar 8 09:58:31 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Nice Commodore lot... In-Reply-To: References: <404C907F.7080103@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <3678.65.123.179.113.1078761511.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I've been told that the C64 and 1541 are popular with the senior set, many of whom aren't interested in the Internet, just a little light gaming, and hammering out a letter or two. The E-Pay auctions have both in the $10-20 range as a general rule. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > Is the C64 much rarer in the US than it is in the UK? I'm only asking > because that lot and much more can easily be found every week at a car > boot > sale/yard sale for generally ukp10 and this bloke is asking a STARTING > PRICE > of $99 with a BiN of $150!! > > Cheers > From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 8 10:21:36 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Nice Commodore lot... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <404C9D90.3010005@atarimuseum.com> I dunno, I just looked, the guy is from Canada actually... I don't know the availbility situation there... I know over in the UK/Europe the market their was flooded to the gills with C64's, Atari XE's and Sinclairs so perhaps you have a lot more stuff available... An Atari 130XE here in the US I know can fetch an average of $25-$35, and a 1050 can get about that much, so comparing to what the guy has and all the software, $99 isn't that bad, a little high I'd say (I'd think $75-$79 might've been a better price) but not that bad. Curt Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel >>Sent: 08 March 2004 15:26 >>To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; >>Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>Subject: Nice Commodore lot... >> >>Not mine, nice lot of stuff, thought I'd mention it if anyone >>is looking to get into C64 equipment and is looking for a >>nice starter set or someone who just can't pass up C64 stuff: >> >>http://www.bidiots.com/detail.asp?id=1119&pic=0#img >> >> > >Is the C64 much rarer in the US than it is in the UK? I'm only asking >because that lot and much more can easily be found every week at a car boot >sale/yard sale for generally ukp10 and this bloke is asking a STARTING PRICE >of $99 with a BiN of $150!! > >Cheers > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 8 10:29:34 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: KL-10 question References: <1078531255.6149.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <16460.40814.931000.72412@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Guy" == Guy Sotomayor writes: Guy> Hi, Does anyone know how much 3-phase power (at say 220v) a Guy> KL-10 requires? Guy> I just acquired some commercial space to move my collection into Guy> and I noticed today that there are several 220v 3-phase power Guy> drops that I hadn't noticed previously. I'm kind of hoping that Guy> I'll have enough 3-phase to be able to start resurecting my Guy> KL-10, but I need to know how much I need. I remember a big plug rated at probably at least 50 amps. One suggestion would be to check the name plates either on the chassis near the power inlets, or on the power supplies. You might also use the power cable and plug dimensions as a guideline; find the current rating of the cable used for the power inlet. That should be somewhat over the actual amount needed but not massively so -- power syhstem designers don't usually overdesign cables by large margins. Yet another possibility is to ask the Rhode Island computer museum -- I believe that's where the KL-10 sits that used to belong to John Wilson. paul From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Mar 8 10:32:06 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404C95AD.5080408@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: . > > Same applies for when I search for videogames, when > I go to look up > Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar > XJ6 engine parts, > Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has > nothing to do with > videogame related items, so I would much rather go > to a site that caters > specifically to a category of items I am looking > for. Isn't that what the ebay categories are for? I would think if you perform catagory specific searches you wouldn't have all these problems. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 8 10:37:39 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc> 3.2 GFLOPS, 4 GB RAM, 16 processors, eats 7.4 Kw. https://mds.bussvc.wisc.edu/swap/product.asp?mscsID=&auction_id=2119 - John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 8 10:40:46 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo non volitile memory References: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <404CA20E.2070407@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: > anyone there? Yep!!! I just found out about some 32k x 8 ( 3.3 volt ) non volatile memory FM18L08. They say it has a 10 year data retention and unlimited read/write cycles. They are about $8.91 at Newark each. While they still sell them in DIP packaging has anybody considered useing them to replace Core memory in the older machines? Ben. Data sheet info. http://www.ramtron.com/products/Bulletins/FM1608Bulletin.htm From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 8 10:48:57 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <404CA3F9.5080204@atarimuseum.com> You'd be surprised, plus the fact that Ebay just trashed all their categories (AGAIN!) and now they've got everything so generalized... I used to have all the categories I posted and read down and now Ebay eliminated all of them and put everything under a bunch of umbrella categories... Curt steve wrote: >--- Curt Vendel wrote: >. > > >>Same applies for when I search for videogames, when >>I go to look up >>Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar >>XJ6 engine parts, >>Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has >>nothing to do with >>videogame related items, so I would much rather go >>to a site that caters >>specifically to a category of items I am looking >>for. >> >> > >Isn't that what the ebay categories are for? I would >think if you perform catagory specific searches you >wouldn't have all these problems. > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster >http://search.yahoo.com > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Mar 8 10:54:22 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: yoohooo non volitile memory In-Reply-To: <404CA20E.2070407@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <404CA20E.2070407@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1078764862.10775.7.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 11:40, ben franchuk wrote: > Jay West wrote: > > anyone there? > > Yep!!! > I just found out about some 32k x 8 ( 3.3 volt ) > non volatile memory FM18L08. They say it has a > 10 year data retention and unlimited read/write cycles. > They are about $8.91 at Newark each. While they still sell them in > DIP packaging has anybody considered useing them to replace > Core memory in the older machines? > Ben. > Data sheet info. > http://www.ramtron.com/products/Bulletins/FM1608Bulletin.htm Yeah, I started working on such a project for my 8/e a while back, but never got anywhere with it - just the basic idea. Was going to combine the FM18L08s to make 32Kwords of 12 bits, plus build an emulated RK05 using compact flash into the board. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 8 11:16:47 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:02:10 +0100." <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F6C@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <200403081716.i28HGl027351@mwave.heeltoe.com> Gooijen H wrote: >A little info can be found here: >www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/ra81-info.html thanks! >Did you tension the belt with the lever at the right-hand side (at >least there it is in an RA81 drive)? I did, and it seems to be right, but who knows. Is there any sort of lock out or micro switch which senses proper belt tension? This is an R80 drive, btw. I'm assuming the RA80, RB80 and RM80 are all very similar at the drive end (not the controller end - which is very different). -brad From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 8 11:27:18 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404C95AD.5080408@atarimuseum.com> References: <404C90E4.57DA071@rain.org> <404C95AD.5080408@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <49fa8c8c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <404C95AD.5080408@atarimuseum.com> Curt Vendel wrote: > Hmmmm, thats interesting... I wonder if that's why sites like > marketplace.vintage.org specifically for vintage computers and > www.bidiots.com for videogames have appeared on the scene and as time > has gone by their usage is slowly and steadily increasing. To be honest, I rarely bother with Ebay. OTOH, Ebay does have its uses - I bought a USB to RS232 converter cable off Ebay for ?13 (about $20) that was listed in various computer component catalogues for upwards of ?30 (about $50). I've been thinking about getting one of those nice little VT520 amberscreen DEC terminals that have been popping up on VCM. Only problem is, I bet they're incredibly heavy and thus very expensive to send transatlantic. That and I doubt the power supply would appreciate getting over twice the rated voltage pushed into the input - natch. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... When I get a better mouse trap built, mice will be an endangered species. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Mar 8 11:20:31 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc> Message-ID: <3754.65.123.179.127.1078766431.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> But does it run Windows software? That is the 64,000 dollar question. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > > 3.2 GFLOPS, 4 GB RAM, 16 processors, eats 7.4 Kw. > > https://mds.bussvc.wisc.edu/swap/product.asp?mscsID=&auction_id=2119 > > - John > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 8 11:33:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <3754.65.123.179.127.1078766431.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc> <3754.65.123.179.127.1078766431.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <404CAE63.90603@atarimuseum.com> There's gotta be a version of BSD Unix ported to it by now ;-) Curt ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: >But does it run Windows software? That is the 64,000 dollar question. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO > > > > >>3.2 GFLOPS, 4 GB RAM, 16 processors, eats 7.4 Kw. >> >>https://mds.bussvc.wisc.edu/swap/product.asp?mscsID=&auction_id=2119 >> >>- John >> >> >> >> > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 12:05:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: <008901c40517$944edec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:13 AM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: >Ok I'm extremely irked. > >Friday afternoon the classiccmp server decided it didn't have a slave drive. >It has done this once or twice before, for some reason the system can't see >the drive anymore so it flags it as non-existent. Usually after a reboot it >goes fine for a few months at least. Most odd. I'm guessing it's the crappy >Western Digital 160gb drive I bought. Don't think I'll be getting any more >Western Digital for a while. I worked on a friend's machine this weekend and found a crapped out 80 Gb WD drive. The BIOS would recognize the drive but when he tried to boot it said there was no drive attached. My new WD 60 Gb WD drive crapped out after about 6 weeks on intermitant use. I'm finding out that the WD drives built in the last couple of years are junk. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 12:08:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: HP Calculator (?) RAM on eBay In-Reply-To: <008f01c40524$1add78a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308130817.008483a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:43 AM 3/8/04 -0500, you wrote: >Not affiliated with seller. >These don't look like anything I've seen before. > >"20 HP Calculator RAM Mod's #5 1818-2805 NEW" >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792071263 > >The seller here says Calculator. I wouldn't jump so quickly to that >conclusion. In the slim chance they fit something a lister has... Idiot! They're OS ROM (R O M) modules for a HP 9835 calculator. They're totally useless for anything else. Joe From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 8 12:12:38 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:58 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <200403081450.i28EoQj26189@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <002301c40538$f0878fe0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I have an R80 which does not spin up or come ready: I've never had to do anything with an RA80 but there is a maintenance manual over at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/m186btc.pdf There's an RA81 maintenance guide there too, although it's of the same vintage so the info that applies to both is quite likely to be in both guides anyway. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 12:15:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: additional info was: Re: HP Calculator (?) RAM on eBay Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308131500.0084c620@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:43 AM 3/8/04 -0500, you wrote: >Not affiliated with seller. >These don't look like anything I've seen before. > >"20 HP Calculator RAM Mod's #5 1818-2805 NEW" >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792071263 > >The seller here says Calculator. I wouldn't jump so quickly to that >conclusion. In the slim chance they fit something a lister has... Idiot! They're OS ROM (R O M) modules for a HP 9835 calculator. They're totally useless for anything else. Joe More: "The ROMs used in the 9835 are rather unusual. The ROM carriers look exactly like the ROMs for the HP 9825 but without labels. But instead of only holding one ROM, each carrier has sockets for four ROMs. The individual ROMs are small square boxes similar to those used in the HP 85. The 9835 ROMs come in sets of 1, 2 or 4 individual ROMs and the ROMs can be mounted in any order in the carrier or in any position in the 9835. The fourteen operating system ROMs are similarly mounted in a pull out drawer on the left side of the 9835. Flash! I've just learned that one collector has a 9835 with ROM drawers that hold six ROMs each instead of four. That's something that I haven't heard of before. " See more at Joe From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 8 12:23:19 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: <200403081800.i28I03JE003085@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403081800.i28I03JE003085@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Guy" == Guy Sotomayor writes: > > Guy> Hi, Does anyone know how much 3-phase power (at say 220v) a > Guy> KL-10 requires? > > Guy> I just acquired some commercial space to move my collection into > Guy> and I noticed today that there are several 220v 3-phase power > Guy> drops that I hadn't noticed previously. I'm kind of hoping that > Guy> I'll have enough 3-phase to be able to start resurecting my > Guy> KL-10, but I need to know how much I need. > > I remember a big plug rated at probably at least 50 amps. Sounds about right. > One suggestion would be to check the name plates either on the chassis > near the power inlets, or on the power supplies. You might also use > the power cable and plug dimensions as a guideline; find the current > rating of the cable used for the power inlet. That should be somewhat > over the actual amount needed but not massively so -- power syhstem > designers don't usually overdesign cables by large margins. Yes, they do. The VAX8600 was targeted at large IBM sites, so they put in an oversized power cable and receptacle, that was the same as for the IBM equipment they planned to replace. So the 8650 I have here have a cable and receptacle specified for 410V@32A/phase, but it runs just fine on 16A/phase. And our KL-10 sat on this *huge* 410V@63A/phase thingie. That receptacle was just large enough to be silly. And the power cable is not something you carry around in your hand... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 8 12:25:59 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <200403081800.i28I03JE003085@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403081800.i28I03JE003085@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 Brad Parker wrote: > Gooijen H wrote: > >A little info can be found here: > >www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/ra81-info.html > > thanks! > > >Did you tension the belt with the lever at the right-hand side (at > >least there it is in an RA81 drive)? > > I did, and it seems to be right, but who knows. Is there any sort of > lock out or micro switch which senses proper belt tension? Yes, I think so. Also, there is a transport safety for the heads. It's a lever on the HDA, which you should turn to unlocked. Does the R80 have the terminal interface on one card like the RA8x drives do? If so, plug a terminal in there and talk with the drive. 1200 bps I think, though it could be 300. 8N1. > This is an R80 drive, btw. I'm assuming the RA80, RB80 and RM80 are all > very similar at the drive end (not the controller end - which is very > different). Yes, it's the same HDA. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 12:41:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The title says it all. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 12:44:40 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005e01c4053d$6a71bfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> 700 series were graphical workstations ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > The title says it all. > > Joe > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 12:45:17 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? References: <002301c40538$f0878fe0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <006801c4053d$802ea120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written.... > I've never had to do anything with an RA80 but there is > a maintenance manual over at: > http://208.190.133.201/decimages/m186btc.pdf THANKS! There's definitely some info there I had been looking for and was unaware of the site. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 8 12:58:15 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <174e958c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Joe R." wrote: > I worked on a friend's machine this weekend and found a crapped out 80 > Gb WD drive. The BIOS would recognize the drive but when he tried to boot > it said there was no drive attached. My new WD 60 Gb WD drive crapped out > after about 6 weeks on intermitant use. I'm finding out that the WD drives > built in the last couple of years are junk. I've had trouble with WD drives, too. Pure cack. I've never had a Maxtor die completely though - even when my 5T040H4 packed up, it would still spin up if you held down the RESET button on the PC. Maxtor sent me a replacement, I copied my data over, then sent them the 40GB. No fuss at all. I've seen IBM drives die (the 75GXPs) due to the "head gets stuck to the lubricant" glitch. My 75GXP has had the firmware patch, though, so I doubt I'll have any trouble with it. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Today is cancelled due to lack of interest! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 8 13:03:18 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "Re: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 8, 11:01) References: <10403042316.ZM18840@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16456.37059.78963.483263@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10403052228.ZM19683@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16457.2659.259090.6981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10403061127.ZM20292@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <16460.39145.754000.4665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10403081903.ZM22606@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 8, 11:01, Paul Koning wrote: > Pete> You can, but I was always told (and read somewhere) there > Pete> should be two stripes between, not one. > > Interesting. Your source is mistaken... Quoting from the Ethernet > Specification, Version 2 (DEC/Intel/Xerox), section 7.6.2: Makes sense, I can't think of any reason to require a minimum of two "intervals" (for want of a better word). See my other post; I bet the book has simply been misinterpreted a few times, and that's where most peopel got it from (the standard itself didn't used to be terribly accessible). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 8 12:56:56 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist "Re: AUI cables in UK?" (Mar 8, 16:10) References: <200403081415.i28EDYJE000446@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <10403081856.ZM22599@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 8, 16:10, Johnny Billquist wrote: > I'm pretty sure that the stripes are at 2.5 m. They are. I'm looking at a length of etherhose right now. > I'm also pretty sure that the standard says you should have 5 meters > between transcievers. That's what I thought, but I don't actually have a copy of the standard, just my well-thumbed copy of Charles Spurgeon's "Ethernet" book. It says the stripes are 2.5m apart but transceivers can be placed at 5m or 7.5m or any multiple of 2.5. Well, 2.5 is a multiple (in the mathematician's sense of 1 x 2.5) so maybe 2.5 is OK. > But I have actually never really understood why. Maybe just to not damage > the cable to much with vampire taps? There cannot be an electrical or > signal reason for this, as far as I can tell. I can't think of one either. The reason for the 2.5m spacing is that it's an odd fraction (about 1/19th) of a wavelength, so when you put taps on the cable, the small reflections caused by the discontinuities are out of phase and don't tend to be additive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 8 13:15:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: References: <200403081800.i28I03JE003085@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1078773330.20140.18.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 18:25, Johnny Billquist wrote: > Does the R80 have the terminal interface on one card like the RA8x drives > do? If so, plug a terminal in there and talk with the drive. 1200 bps I > think, though it could be 300. 8N1. 300 on the RA81 IIRC from a few weeks ago. We have two drives ('81s) which seem to have a similar problem to the original poster's - they appear healthy but just don't want to spin up. We haven't taken a look at them in the past couple of weeks as a) there are plenty of other things to be done! and b) Supposedly we're having a whole pile of original docs for these drives donated to us which I'm hoping will include some more in-depth diagnostics. If anything useful comes of the latter I'll shout... cheers Jules From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 13:28:29 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: HP item wanted Message-ID: <001101c40543$8917c2c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I figure there's pretty much zero chance of this, but thought I'd ask :) I have an HP 7906 drive that is rackmounted in one of the "newer" style cream colored rounded edge HP racks. I want to mount it in one of the older dark grey HP racks. The mounts are completely different. So, I'm looking for 7906 drive rails that go in the older style cabinet. I do have L brackets that go in the older cabinets, but with 7906 drives it's pretty important to be able to pull them out a bit and work on the bottom. Anyone have a set for trade? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 8 13:43:14 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? References: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <404CCCD2.F11E6C46@rain.org> The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use was: (s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am interested in, 521 items get brought up including junk like "70`S AND 80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". Your way of searching will totally exclude items that got posted in the wrong catagory and other such items. steve wrote: > > --- Curt Vendel wrote: > . > > > > Same applies for when I search for videogames, when > > I go to look up > > Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar > > XJ6 engine parts, > > Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has > > nothing to do with > > videogame related items, so I would much rather go > > to a site that caters > > specifically to a category of items I am looking > > for. > > Isn't that what the ebay categories are for? I would > think if you perform catagory specific searches you > wouldn't have all these problems. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 14:03:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: paging Eric Smith Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308150304.00844e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Eric are you out there? If then you need to contact me. I've sent you two E-mails and haven't gotten a reply. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 14:13:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404CCCD2.F11E6C46@rain.org> References: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308151318.0088f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The BIG problem with searching on E-bay is the keyword SPAMMERs. A lot of the junk sellers include a lot words for popular items in their text so that eveytime you search for something like "hewlett packard" it finds their listing for something like "How I got rich on E-bay" CD. The keywords are frequently embedded as white characters on a white background or something similar so that you don't even see them when you view the listing. I've complained to E-bay about this practice but they don't care. Joe At 11:43 AM 3/8/04 -0800, you wrote: > >The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use >was: > >(s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta > >They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am >interested in, 521 items get brought up including junk like "70`S AND >80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". I think the - in S-100 may confuse the search engine. You probably need to enclose s-100 in quotes ( "S-100" ). Joe > >Your way of searching will totally exclude items that got posted in the >wrong catagory and other such items. > >steve wrote: >> >> --- Curt Vendel wrote: >> . >> > >> > Same applies for when I search for videogames, when >> > I go to look up >> > Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar >> > XJ6 engine parts, >> > Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has >> > nothing to do with >> > videogame related items, so I would much rather go >> > to a site that caters >> > specifically to a category of items I am looking >> > for. >> >> Isn't that what the ebay categories are for? I would >> think if you perform catagory specific searches you >> wouldn't have all these problems. > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Mar 8 14:23:25 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404CCCD2.F11E6C46@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use > was: > > (s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta > > They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am > interested in, 521 items get brought up including junk like "70`S AND > 80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". > You need to quote anything you're using as a literal: ("s-100",altair,imsai) g. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 8 14:30:49 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040308122733.E91570@newshell.lmi.net> > > (s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta > > They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Gene Buckle wrote: > You need to quote anything you're using as a literal: > ("s-100",altair,imsai) even quotes won't force recognition of a hyphen in eBay. Evwen with quotes, it will see ". . . S 100 . . ." as matching "S-100" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 14:52:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? In-Reply-To: <005e01c4053d$6a71bfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308155217.008948b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Can you (or anyone else on the list) get around the password on one of these? It's running HP-UX 9.05. The OS is installed on a MountainGate IncreMeg 1 Gb removeable hard drive (nice drive!) I found that this one was used on the Final Assembly Test Station for the Predator Autopilot! Joe At 12:44 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: >700 series were graphical workstations >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:41 PM >Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > > >> The title says it all. >> >> Joe >> >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 8 14:59:28 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308155217.008948b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006a01c40550$3edfe680$033310ac@kwcorp.com> The age-old trick is boot to single user mode, then change the password with the passwd command. As I recall on HP-UX, during the boot process you'll see a line about "init something something"... I believe you hit space here, then type the same init line but append "-s" to designate going to single user. If this totally vague and possibly inaccurate email doesn't help, let me know and I'll go boot up a box to refresh my memory. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "Steve Robertson" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > Jay, > > Can you (or anyone else on the list) get around the password on one of > these? It's running HP-UX 9.05. The OS is installed on a MountainGate > IncreMeg 1 Gb removeable hard drive (nice drive!) I found that this one was > used on the Final Assembly Test Station for the Predator Autopilot! > > Joe > > At 12:44 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: > >700 series were graphical workstations > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: > >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:41 PM > >Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > > > > > >> The title says it all. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 8 15:28:45 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? References: Message-ID: <404CE58D.A31F953A@rain.org> You might get better luck than I am using quotes as they do absolutely nothing when I insert the quotes. Been there and have the scars to prove it :). A check just a minute ago showed 522 items with or without the quotes. As I said, the Ebay search engine is a bad joke. Gene Buckle wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use > > was: > > > > (s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta > > > > They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am > > interested in, 521 items get brought up including junk like "70`S AND > > 80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". > > > > You need to quote anything you're using as a literal: > ("s-100",altair,imsai) > > g. From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 8 15:29:52 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? References: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308151318.0088f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <404CE5D0.F976891A@rain.org> Keyword spamming is only a problems when you do description searches; they won't affect title searches. "Joe R." wrote: > > The BIG problem with searching on E-bay is the keyword SPAMMERs. A lot > of the junk sellers include a lot words for popular items in their text so > that eveytime you search for something like "hewlett packard" it finds > their listing for something like "How I got rich on E-bay" CD. The keywords > are frequently embedded as white characters on a white background or > something similar so that you don't even see them when you view the > listing. I've complained to E-bay about this practice but they don't care. > > Joe > > At 11:43 AM 3/8/04 -0800, you wrote: > > > >The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use > >was: > > > >(s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta > > > >They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am > >interested in, 521 items get brought up including junk like "70`S AND > >80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". > > I think the - in S-100 may confuse the search engine. You probably need > to enclose s-100 in quotes ( "S-100" ). > > Joe > > > > >Your way of searching will totally exclude items that got posted in the > >wrong catagory and other such items. > > > >steve wrote: > >> > >> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > >> . > >> > > >> > Same applies for when I search for videogames, when > >> > I go to look up > >> > Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar > >> > XJ6 engine parts, > >> > Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has > >> > nothing to do with > >> > videogame related items, so I would much rather go > >> > to a site that caters > >> > specifically to a category of items I am looking > >> > for. > >> > >> Isn't that what the ebay categories are for? I would > >> think if you perform catagory specific searches you > >> wouldn't have all these problems. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 15:37:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: OT Humor! Policy Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308163716.007b6600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This was too good not to pass on! Joe > > Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a >banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a >monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As >soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold >water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same >result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty >soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys >will try to prevent it. > > Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and >replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to >climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys >attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries >to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the >original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes >to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the >punishment with enthusiasm! > > Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a >fourth, and then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the >stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have >no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are >participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all >the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been >sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches >the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know >that's the way it's always been done around here. > > And that, my friends, is how company policy begins. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 15:39:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404CE5D0.F976891A@rain.org> References: <20040308163206.59100.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308151318.0088f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308163932.007e2c70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> True but I do a lot of description searches. People write mis-leading titles just like they put stuff in the wrong catagory. Joe At 01:29 PM 3/8/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Keyword spamming is only a problems when you do description searches; >they won't affect title searches. > >"Joe R." wrote: >> >> The BIG problem with searching on E-bay is the keyword SPAMMERs. A lot >> of the junk sellers include a lot words for popular items in their text so >> that eveytime you search for something like "hewlett packard" it finds >> their listing for something like "How I got rich on E-bay" CD. The keywords >> are frequently embedded as white characters on a white background or >> something similar so that you don't even see them when you view the >> listing. I've complained to E-bay about this practice but they don't care. >> >> Joe >> >> At 11:43 AM 3/8/04 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use >> >was: >> > >> >(s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta >> > >> >They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of bringing up the stuff I am >> >interested in, 521 items get brought up including junk like "70`S AND >> >80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". >> >> I think the - in S-100 may confuse the search engine. You probably need >> to enclose s-100 in quotes ( "S-100" ). >> >> Joe >> >> > >> >Your way of searching will totally exclude items that got posted in the >> >wrong catagory and other such items. >> > >> >steve wrote: >> >> >> >> --- Curt Vendel wrote: >> >> . >> >> > >> >> > Same applies for when I search for videogames, when >> >> > I go to look up >> >> > Atari Jaguar items I don't want to pull up Jaguar >> >> > XJ6 engine parts, >> >> > Jaguar Jungle photo's and other nonsense that has >> >> > nothing to do with >> >> > videogame related items, so I would much rather go >> >> > to a site that caters >> >> > specifically to a category of items I am looking >> >> > for. >> >> >> >> Isn't that what the ebay categories are for? I would >> >> think if you perform catagory specific searches you >> >> wouldn't have all these problems. >> > > From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Mar 8 12:16:32 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <404CAE63.90603@atarimuseum.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc> <3754.65.123.179.127.1078766431.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <404CAE63.90603@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308131206.026101e8@mail.n.ml.org> Linux supposedly has a version that runs on Crays, so BSD Unix shouldn't be far behind. I just don't want to have to own my own power generation plant and sub station just to run my damned computers. Besides, with that power (processors, ram, etc.), I'd rather just get a loaded quad AMD Opteron system that uses much less power and works with Windows, Linux, etc. ...Besides the fact that the quad Opteron systems would fit nicely under my desk because they are the size of a regular mid-tower system. =) -John Boffemmyer IV At 12:33 PM 3/8/2004, you wrote: >There's gotta be a version of BSD Unix ported to it by now ;-) > > > >Curt > > >ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > >>But does it run Windows software? That is the 64,000 dollar question. >> >>Gary Hildebrand >>St. Joseph, MO >> >> >> >> >>>3.2 GFLOPS, 4 GB RAM, 16 processors, eats 7.4 Kw. >>> >>>https://mds.bussvc.wisc.edu/swap/product.asp?mscsID=&auction_id=2119 >>> >>>- John >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >-- > > >Curt Vendel & Karl Morris >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >The Atari Museum >http://www.atarimuseum.com > >The Atari Explorer >http://www.atari-explorer.com > > > ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jwest at kwcorp.com Mon Mar 8 13:15:07 2004 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: HP 10529A logic comparator manual Message-ID: <009c01c40541$ab0d3880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> TSIA Not sure if I posted this already. I was wondering if anyone has an extra original manual for the HP 10529A logic comparator. Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Mar 8 08:53:59 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: HP Calculator (?) RAM on eBay Message-ID: <200403081453.i28ErxBe014508@king.cs.drexel.edu> "John Allain" wrote: > "20 HP Calculator RAM Mod's #5 1818-2805 NEW" > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792071263 Look like one of the 9825 OS ROMs. See http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/9825rom.jpg **vp From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Mar 8 16:12:53 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: HP 10529A logic comparator manual In-Reply-To: <009c01c40541$ab0d3880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <009c01c40541$ab0d3880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <404CEFE5.3050008@gifford.co.uk> Jay West wrote: > Not sure if I posted this already. I was wondering if anyone has an extra > original manual for the HP 10529A logic comparator. I have purchased one of these fine instruments via eBay (UK), and should receive it soon. When it arrives, I'll see what manuals I get! Would a photocopy or scan be acceptable? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Mar 8 16:08:14 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308131206.026101e8@mail.n.ml.org> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc><3754.65.123.179.127.1078766431.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com><404CAE63.90603@atarimuseum.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040308131206.026101e8@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <4947.65.123.179.156.1078783694.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Imagine -- spam to every e-mail addy in existence in the blink of an eye. Or DDoS attacks to every server. Would definitely need braodband access though. Gary Hildebrand > I just don't want to have to own my own power generation plant and sub > station just to run my damned computers. Besides, with that power > (processors, ram, etc.), I'd rather just get a loaded quad AMD Opteron > system that uses much less power and works with Windows, Linux, etc. > ...Besides the fact that the quad Opteron systems would fit nicely under > my > desk because they are the size of a regular mid-tower system. =) > > -John Boffemmyer IV From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Mar 8 16:32:31 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (dvcorbin@optonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 Message-ID: Simultaneous Emulation of every classic computer! From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 8 16:45:53 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: OT Humor! Policy In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040308163716.007b6600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5B00866C-7152-11D8-AB08-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Monday, March 8, 2004, at 01:37 PM, Joe R. wrote: > This was too good not to pass on! > > Joe >> Why not? Because as far as they know >> that's the way it's always been done around here. >> >> And that, my friends, is how company policy begins. >> >> > > I have worked for that company.... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 8 16:49:12 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 References: Message-ID: <404CF868.7080706@jetnet.ab.ca> dvcorbin@optonline.net wrote: > Simultaneous Emulation of every classic computer! So how many TTY's would be needed as well as the CRAY for this feat? From acme at gbronline.com Mon Mar 8 16:59:07 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! References: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007501c40561$002667a0$6d4f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." > I'm finding out that the WD drives > built in the last couple of years are junk. Joe -- we have more DOA WD drives than any other brand. The IBM-badged Hitachi drives, OTOH, seem to be the most reliable. Glen From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 8 17:03:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Sun U10/U60 Creator 3D card question Message-ID: I've got an Sun Ultra 10 with a nice Creator 3D card in it. Yesterday I scored a Sun Ultra 60 with dual 300's :^) Is there any reason I can't move the Creator 3D card from the U10 to the U60? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 8 17:22:32 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404CA3F9.5080204@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > You'd be surprised, plus the fact that Ebay just trashed all their > categories (AGAIN!) and now they've got everything so generalized... I > used to have all the categories I posted and read down and now Ebay > eliminated all of them and put everything under a bunch of umbrella > categories... I just checked Ebay minutes ago, and all of the categories I use are still very intact, with the same numbers. How are you seeing this "trashing"? As a side note - did anyone notice for a day or so, auction titles grew about 40 percent? Usually I try to cram as many meaningful words in the title, stopping when I hit the wall. Well, the wall was out further for a short time, allowing 20 or so additional characters in the title. More words for the search engine, as far as I was concerned. I think it may have been an experiment. It seems that the Subtitle option is not very popular, so they may be trying to remedy it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 8 17:24:01 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The VAX8600 was targeted at large IBM sites, so they put in an oversized > power cable and receptacle, that was the same as for the IBM equipment > they planned to replace. Who was the genius behind that marketing plan? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 8 17:31:26 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404CCCD2.F11E6C46@rain.org> Message-ID: > The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the searches I used to use > was: > > (s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta Now, generally I don't have too many complaints against Ebay. I think it works fairly well*. However, I must agree with their search engine. It sucks. After finely tuning my searches (a hard thing to do, by the way, as the keyword spammers are a problem) and getting things working well, one day everything stopped working the way I wanted it to. In some case the searches could not find anything, while others overloaded the engine. I changed nothing. Nothing for months. I complained, and being an evil Powerseller, I would get fairly quick, personal responses from the tech support folks. They insisted that nothing changed on their end. They even gave me a few examples to work with - and they did not even work the way they should! So now, after fine tuning everything all over again, I still have to wade thru tons of crap to see what I want to see. This may be one of the reasons why I don't bid much anymore. * Note to the flamers - I will NOT respond to anything. Don't bother. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 8 17:09:10 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: yoohooo In-Reply-To: <005b01c40512$39a855a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040308150848.025bdcd0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:35 AM 3/8/04 -0600, Jay West wrote: >anyone there? >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] I am here, you are there. ;) From m1dlg at whsmithnet.co.uk Mon Mar 8 17:47:35 2004 From: m1dlg at whsmithnet.co.uk (DJ (M1DLG)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: OT Humor! Policy References: <5B00866C-7152-11D8-AB08-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <006801c40567$c2b83900$0700000a@m3dlg> you must be in the same dept as me..... dj lol ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:45 PM Subject: Re: OT Humor! Policy > > On Monday, March 8, 2004, at 01:37 PM, Joe R. wrote: > > > This was too good not to pass on! > > > > Joe > >> Why not? Because as far as they know > >> that's the way it's always been done around here. > >> > >> And that, my friends, is how company policy begins. > >> > >> > > > > > > I have worked for that company.... > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 8 17:48:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <200403081716.i28HGl027351@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 8, 4 12:16:47 pm Message-ID: > I did, and it seems to be right, but who knows. Is there any sort of > lock out or micro switch which senses proper belt tension? IIRC there's a microswitch which detects that the tensioner lever is in the 'tensioned' position, but nothing more. Of course the drive does check that the spindle is rotating at the right speed when it's spun up. > > This is an R80 drive, btw. I'm assuming the RA80, RB80 and RM80 are all > very similar at the drive end (not the controller end - which is very > different). Again IIRC, the RM80 is an R80 with a separate rack of electronics in the stand to give it a Massbus interface. The RA80 has difference logic boards inside the drive. -tony From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 8 18:18:40 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:25:59 +0100." Message-ID: <200403090018.i290IeM09269@mwave.heeltoe.com> Johnny Billquist wrote: > >Yes, I think so. Also, there is a transport safety for the heads. It's a >lever on the HDA, which you should turn to unlocked. I may pull the HDA in a minute - I can see two wires around the belt tensioning contraption but I have no idea where they go. >Does the R80 have the terminal interface on one card like the RA8x drives >do? If so, plug a terminal in there and talk with the drive. 1200 bps I >think, though it could be 300. 8N1. Not that I can find. I didn't see any DB-25 anyway. It has the same 8 leds & 2 rotaries as an RA81 but it does not appear to respond in the same way at all. -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 8 18:23:30 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:48:09 GMT." Message-ID: <200403090023.i290NVR09573@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: >> I did, and it seems to be right, but who knows. Is there any sort of >> lock out or micro switch which senses proper belt tension? > >IIRC there's a microswitch which detects that the tensioner lever is in >the 'tensioned' position, but nothing more. Of course the drive does >check that the spindle is rotating at the right speed when it's spun up. Right - I think that might be my problem (heh). we'll see. -brad From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 8 18:32:58 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: KayPro's available Message-ID: <200403081932.58335.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just received a call. He has a KayPro 2 and KayPro 4 that he'd like to sell. They are located in Ottawa, Canada. What's the going price for these? Earlier tonight I had a cybernex terminal, a wang and a S-100 machine dropped off, as well as a Hyperion and a Toshiba T5200/100. A Zeus should be arriving latter on. - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFATRC6LPrIaE/xBZARAmu5AJ0Sx+fMTVQvUwnLmqG+a2xLVg00WgCfcUGW AlZH+FCSdU97BMLCXe1QSY4= =BSzD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Mar 8 18:38:35 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 References: <404CF868.7080706@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <000901c4056e$ed223540$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 > dvcorbin@optonline.net wrote: > > Simultaneous Emulation of every classic computer! > So how many TTY's would be needed as well as the You should check out the rest of the stuff at this auction. Some very silly stuff but some really cool stuff too. Right now I am looking at an Edison Lamp Works 'Foot Candle Meter'. It's sitting at $2.50. I'm suprised at the Cray listing which has such small and hard-to-decipher pictures. I would bet that this could be picked up for a reasonable price since it is not at the 'other' auction site. Seems there is only one bid on it now so if anyone near Madison it might be a good snag, whether you can ever run it or not. BM From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 8 18:56:39 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 References: <404CF868.7080706@jetnet.ab.ca> <000901c4056e$ed223540$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <404D1647.9020306@jetnet.ab.ca> Brian Mahoney wrote: > You should check out the rest of the stuff at this auction. Some very silly > stuff but some really cool stuff too. Right now I am looking at an Edison > Lamp Works 'Foot Candle Meter'. It's sitting at $2.50. > I'm suprised at the Cray listing which has such small and hard-to-decipher > pictures. I would bet that this could be picked up for a reasonable price > since it is not at the 'other' auction site. Seems there is only one bid on > it now so if anyone near Madison it might be a good snag, whether you can > ever run it or not. But in two days the bidding I expect will go up. I just hope it don't go to some guy that chops it up to sell bits and pieces on e-bay. Ben. From auringer at tds.net Mon Mar 8 19:02:21 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <000901c4056e$ed223540$0200a8c0@look.ca> References: <404CF868.7080706@jetnet.ab.ca> <000901c4056e$ed223540$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <404D179D.800@tds.net> Brian Mahoney wrote: >I'm suprised at the Cray listing which has such small and hard-to-decipher >pictures. > The people that take the photos were only given a crappy little P&S digital to work with. I can tell you that the CRAY is a very nice looking unit. I didn't see any problems with it. Jon From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 8 19:10:04 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: QIC80 tapes available Message-ID: <55.527cf736.2d7e736c@aol.com> Ive got well over 50 SONY QW5122F tapes brand new still wrapped up. 200/420M capacity. Not sure what they work on though. .25 cents each. Also have other QIC80 tapes, but no MC3020 anymore. Inquire for others. -- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 19:11:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: <007501c40561$002667a0$6d4f0945@thegoodw> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308201117.007bbe80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:59 PM 3/8/04 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." > >> I'm finding out that the WD drives >> built in the last couple of years are junk. > >Joe -- we have more DOA WD drives than any other brand. I can well believe it. >>The IBM-badged >Hitachi drives, OTOH, seem to be the most reliable. That's funny. IBM drives didn't use to be worth the trouble to carry them home. I guess they gave up trying to make their own drives and started buying then from someone that knows what they're doing! Joe > >Glen > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Mar 8 19:46:59 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:59 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040308201117.007bbe80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308201117.007bbe80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <404D2213.5080806@jcwren.com> Joe R. wrote: > [snip] > >>Hitachi drives, OTOH, seem to be the most reliable. >> >> > > That's funny. IBM drives didn't use to be worth the trouble to carry >them home. I guess they gave up trying to make their own drives and started >buying then from someone that knows what they're doing! > > Joe > Uh, no. IBM Storage Technology has more patents than any other drive manufacturer, and is responsible for a large number of the trends in storage technology. IBM drives were as good as anything else out there, until their 60GXP and 75GXP fiasco. But since drives were becoming such a commodity item, IBM sold off their storage technology division to Hitachi. I've never knowingly used a Hitachi drive, so I can't comment on how good they are or aren't. I do know that until the 60/75GXP problem, I'd have zero hesitations about buying IBM drives, and had Deskstars in a number of systems at work. They're as good or better than Maxtor, and there's no comparing them to WD drives (I think a piece of petrified dog crap is more reliable than a WD drive). --jc From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 8 19:50:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:23:30 EST." <200403090023.i290NVR09573@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200403090150.i291oMn10181@mwave.heeltoe.com> >Tony Duell wrote: >> >>IIRC there's a microswitch which detects that the tensioner lever is in >>the 'tensioned' position, but nothing more. Of course the drive does >>check that the spindle is rotating at the right speed when it's spun up. I pulled the HDA - the belt tension switch was fine. I found, however, the electric brake was *extremely* tight. So much friction that I doubt very much the motor could spin at all. I removed it (I'll sand down the 'brake pad' later). Hoping for a small miracle I fired it back up but still no joy - the motor (now free) refused to spin up. [a side note: the unit does not seem to reset no power up - it comes up with all lights on until I click the reset manually. sometime tells me this is a symptom] I need some prints so I can trace the motor power back to the micro... Any have prints for an R80 (or RA80/RB80/RM80). Or an RA81? I suspect they are similar in terms of motor drive... -brad From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 8 12:11:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Johnny Billquist wrote: > The VAX8600 was targeted at large IBM sites, so they put in an oversized > power cable and receptacle, that was the same as for the IBM equipment > they planned to replace. Yeah, check it out: http://www.siconic.com/computers/vax3.jpg It's bigger than my hand. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Mon Mar 8 18:49:22 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040308103622.06068718@pc> <3754.65.123.179.127.1078766431.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <404CAE63.90603@atarimuseum.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040308131206.026101e8@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <404D1492.2869283@msm.umr.edu> a system I found at the noaa had four processors and was rated at 200 MFlop/s http://www.ncep.noaa.gov/NCO/NCCF/NCEP-HPC/tsld005.htm ORNL eval of opteron showed 2*Mhz. their test was on a 1800mhz or 3600 MFlop / sec http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~dunigan/opteron/ sounds like the opteron might win. jim John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Linux supposedly has a version that runs on Crays, so BSD Unix shouldn't be > far behind. From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Mon Mar 8 20:47:14 2004 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: It seems to have died... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You may want to open it up and make sure all the chips are seated properly. In addition to that I have seen mine, over time, have a couple of boards that are connected directly to each other seperate. Particularly, there is one set, as you look from the front, on the right side that runs vertical to you and connects to a board that is perpendicular to it. Make sure they are pushed together tightly. HTH, Greg Manuel -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:47 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: It seems to have died... After wanting a Commodore 64 SX for such a long time, a kind man finally gave me one. (it was the victim of a garage-clean out. I got it back home and it worked fine for a while. later that night I was writing basic programs and this strange color washed over it's little screen then it went blank. Cycling power did not restore any picture. I left it unplugged overnight, (thinking the problem may have been heat related) but it's still in the same state this morning. Any one have any knowledge? Is it really dead? Is there anything I can do? From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 8 12:53:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: OT Humor! Policy In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040308163716.007b6600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > This was too good not to pass on! That is AWESOME! It's also how societies develop, as well as government policy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 8 20:49:24 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... Message-ID: Does anyone know if it would be safe to put a dish of Vinegar inside a computer? I've got a Sun Ultra 60 that smells. I've already sprayed the foam and fans with Lysol, and I've taken bleach to the foam as well, plus I'm getting ready to put the front (which is the foam that smells the worst) through the dishwasher. However, the inside of the computer smells some as well, and it's been suggested that I stick an open dish of vinegar in/near the computer, changing the vinegar a couple times a day for a couple days. I'm slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. I'm just afraid to have the system in the house, and power it up until I get the smell beat down thanks to my allergies. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 8 12:55:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: OT Humor! Policy In-Reply-To: <5B00866C-7152-11D8-AB08-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Monday, March 8, 2004, at 01:37 PM, Joe R. wrote: > > > This was too good not to pass on! > > > > Joe > >> Why not? Because as far as they know > >> that's the way it's always been done around here. > >> > >> And that, my friends, is how company policy begins. > >> > >> > > > > > > I have worked for that company.... I've tried to argue politics with those monkeys... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 8 20:56:38 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403082157.04462.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 08 March 2004 21:49, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does anyone know if it would be safe to put a dish of Vinegar inside > a computer? I've got a Sun Ultra 60 that smells. I've already > sprayed the foam and fans with Lysol, and I've taken bleach to the > foam as well, plus I'm getting ready to put the front (which is the > foam that smells the worst) through the dishwasher. > > However, the inside of the computer smells some as well, and it's > been suggested that I stick an open dish of vinegar in/near the > computer, changing the vinegar a couple times a day for a couple > days. I'm slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. I'd be more inclined to try baking soda I know the acid baths (20% HCL) I had in my lab to wash glassware caused all the metal to rust within a year. - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFATTKALPrIaE/xBZARAi6jAKDI8TbnGsfdXCcbKnMwJ0WldQj3iACgw2L7 Maxfur2mf9AmKB+skZw9b8o= =mN65 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 8 21:26:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040308222634.00908970@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'd hesitate to use vinegar. However it would probably be ok as long as you rinsed with clean water and dried everything well. I'd try baking soda first. I'd put in in some kind of container and put that inside the computer or maybe just put both in closed up box or bag. I've also had good luck using Pursue deoderizing spray from Amway. I just mist the item lightly and let it sit awhile. Pursue seems to be pretty good at killing odors. If it really stinks you might try closing it up in a plastic bag with a bit of Pursue. I'd put the Pursue on a cottom ball or something similar and put that inside an open can and keep it off the computer. Close the bag up and leave it for a while. Let us know what you end up doing and your results. Joe At 06:49 PM 3/8/04 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone know if it would be safe to put a dish of Vinegar inside >a computer? I've got a Sun Ultra 60 that smells. I've already >sprayed the foam and fans with Lysol, and I've taken bleach to the >foam as well, plus I'm getting ready to put the front (which is the >foam that smells the worst) through the dishwasher. > >However, the inside of the computer smells some as well, and it's >been suggested that I stick an open dish of vinegar in/near the >computer, changing the vinegar a couple times a day for a couple >days. I'm slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. > >I'm just afraid to have the system in the house, and power it up >until I get the smell beat down thanks to my allergies. > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Mar 8 21:35:12 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <404D3B70.4090007@jcwren.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does anyone know if it would be safe to put a dish of Vinegar inside a > computer? I've got a Sun Ultra 60 that smells. I've already sprayed > the foam and fans with Lysol, and I've taken bleach to the foam as > well, plus I'm getting ready to put the front (which is the foam that > smells the worst) through the dishwasher. > > However, the inside of the computer smells some as well, and it's been > suggested that I stick an open dish of vinegar in/near the computer, > changing the vinegar a couple times a day for a couple days. I'm > slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. > > I'm just afraid to have the system in the house, and power it up until > I get the smell beat down thanks to my allergies. > > Zane > Seriously, how about Febreeze? And what's it smell like? --jc From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 8 21:59:44 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <000901c4056e$ed223540$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: > You should check out the rest of the stuff at this auction. Some very silly > stuff but some really cool stuff too. Right now I am looking at an Edison > Lamp Works 'Foot Candle Meter'. It's sitting at $2.50. Probably worth more than the Cray... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 8 22:00:32 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <404D1647.9020306@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > But in two days the bidding I expect will go up. I just hope it don't go > to some guy that chops it up to sell bits and pieces on e-bay. I would not shed too many tears. Js are quite common, and they are pretty much all going out of service now. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 8 22:04:03 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Cray J916 at a surplus sale: now $501 In-Reply-To: <404D1492.2869283@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: > a system I found at the noaa had four processors and was rated at 200 MFlop/s > http://www.ncep.noaa.gov/NCO/NCCF/NCEP-HPC/tsld005.htm > > ORNL eval of opteron showed 2*Mhz. their test was on a 1800mhz or 3600 MFlop / > sec > http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~dunigan/opteron/ > > sounds like the opteron might win. While the Opteron might in fact win (let's face it - the Js were not really supercomputers), that comparison simply does not hold water. Mflops are basically meaningless unless they can be sustained. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 8 14:11:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: KayPro's available In-Reply-To: <200403081932.58335.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Mike wrote: > I just received a call. He has a KayPro 2 and KayPro 4 that he'd like to > sell. > > They are located in Ottawa, Canada. > > What's the going price for these? Not much, really. Less than US$50 each. US$25 would be generous. > Earlier tonight I had a cybernex terminal, a wang and a S-100 machine > dropped off, as well as a Hyperion and a Toshiba T5200/100. A Zeus > should be arriving latter on. Now you're realizing the fringe benefits of being written up in the newspaper ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 8 22:11:41 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: OT - Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players NOS Message-ID: <404D43FD.3EACBB99@rain.org> I just got a call from a friend of mine who has a number of NOS Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players. These are the type that were used in some of the early video games like Cinamatronics Space Ace. Is there any interest in them from list members? Apparently the only thing wrong is that the boxes got damaged but the units themselves are fine. Let me know via email if you are interested. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 8 22:36:48 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: <404D3B70.4090007@jcwren.com> References: <404D3B70.4090007@jcwren.com> Message-ID: >Seriously, how about Febreeze? And what's it smell like? > --jc Is that the odor hiding stuff they keep advertising? It sort of smells like an old, very musty house. I've got a bad feeling there was mildew in the foam. It's already been hit with straight Bleach, plus I've had everything sitting out in the sun and fresh air (actually hit over 75 today). The bleach has helped to kill the worst of the smell I think, as the foam was the worst. The front piece of foam seems to have been the source of the smell, however, the smell then got sucked through the computer. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 8 22:39:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: <200403082157.04462.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200403082157.04462.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: > > days. I'm slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. > >I'd be more inclined to try baking soda > >I know the acid baths (20% HCL) I had in my lab to wash glassware caused all >the metal to rust within a year. Baking Soda was actually my first thought, but the bleach and vinegar was suggested by a friend, and made sense till I saw Vinegar is acidic. I've also been tempted to put a piece of deodorant in the case. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Mar 8 22:46:42 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: References: <404D3B70.4090007@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <404D4C32.2050106@jcwren.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Seriously, how about Febreeze? And what's it smell like? >> --jc > > > Is that the odor hiding stuff they keep advertising? > > It sort of smells like an old, very musty house. I've got a bad > feeling there was mildew in the foam. It's already been hit with > straight Bleach, plus I've had everything sitting out in the sun and > fresh air (actually hit over 75 today). The bleach has helped to kill > the worst of the smell I think, as the foam was the worst. > > The front piece of foam seems to have been the source of the smell, > however, the smell then got sucked through the computer. > > Zane > I dunno about odor hiding it. We have two dogs, one of which sleeps on the couch. I try to keep a blanket on there for him, but if I forget, the couch can get a little doggie. This stuff really seems to make it go away, and not just mask it, like some other products I've tried. < http://tinymicros.com/gallery/pets/dsc00025 > Stain removers are a good example of products that are junk. I have get to find on that permanently removes the ever-so-occasional carpet accident. The stain goes away for a month or two, but then it comes back, fairly faintly. Repeated applications seem to have little long term effect. We've tried about 6 different ones, and I am seriously unimpressed. Oxyclean, some pink stuff, enzyme based removers... Junk! --jc From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Mar 8 22:53:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: OT - Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players NOS In-Reply-To: <404D43FD.3EACBB99@rain.org> References: <404D43FD.3EACBB99@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040309045354.GB30183@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 08:11:41PM -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > I just got a call from a friend of mine who has a number of NOS > Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players. These are the type that were used > in some of the early video games like Cinamatronics Space Ace. Is there > any interest in them from list members? Apparently the only thing wrong > is that the boxes got damaged but the units themselves are fine. Let me > know via email if you are interested. How much each? I have several LD players, and I'm not hung up on the LDV-1000s, but if they are cheap enough, they might be interesting. Do you know if the LDV-1000s are HeNe lasers or semiconductor? Some of the early units were gas lasers, which would probably not work anymore due to the Helium leaking out. I do know that those who can, replace their old units with newer Pioneer units (there are boards to convert the protocols from the DL and SA game boards to newer players). Personally, I play DL and SA with Daphne and a modern LD player (via emulation under Linux). Still, though, a real model LD player would be handy if a real board set ever crosses my path. Obviously, I'd have them shipped to my house in Ohio (43232). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 09-Mar-2004 04:49 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -77.7 F (-61.0 C) Windchill -110.4 F (-79.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.5 kts Grid 122 Barometer 669.4 mb (11030. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 8 23:20:21 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: References: <200403082157.04462.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <7641FB34-7189-11D8-A6F3-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Mar 8, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> > days. I'm slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. >> >> I'd be more inclined to try baking soda >> >> I know the acid baths (20% HCL) I had in my lab to wash glassware >> caused all >> the metal to rust within a year. > > Baking Soda was actually my first thought, but the bleach and vinegar > was suggested by a friend, and made sense till I saw Vinegar is > acidic. > > I've also been tempted to put a piece of deodorant in the case. Or remove/replace that foam? I think a high-end sound store could do you right for that. Doc From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 9 01:22:16 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > Paul's rule (which is the one I was told) is that you can use > > *any* stripes and there is *no* requirement for one stripe > > in between transceivers (never mind two). That is what I was taught, too. And I installed a few hundred or so taps. > > Given that this stuff was often hidden in suspended ceilings > > and suchlike, it would be quite tricky to check that adjacent > > stripes (or two adjacent stripes) were unused (I assume the rule > > applies in both directions. Surely it would have been easier > > to miss out the unusuable stripes? Correct, this cable was usually on those ceilings, with taps being set up there, and then an AUI dropcable down the wall to the device, or sometimes another converter that ran BNC to small devices. > I'm pretty sure that the stripes are at 2.5 m. They are, and that is the minimum distance between devices on the cable. So there is NO requirement to leave one inbetween, or my connections would never have worked ;) > I'm also pretty sure that the standard says you should have 5 meters > between transcievers. Nope. > But I have actually never really understood why. Maybe just to not damage > the cable to much with vampire taps? There cannot be an electrical or > signal reason for this, as far as I can tell. For signal echo reasons, much like the requiement for terminators on both ends of the cable. If the devices are too close to eachother, there will be too *little* space (read: time) inbetween for them to check for any echo (collision). The transceiver will send out the first bit, and will then wait the minimal time (the time it takes to reach the first possible device on the cable) before it checks for collision. It then sends out the packet (if no coll.) and waits a full timeframe (meaning, the time maximally needed to reach a terminator, and then back) for a collision. If none, we have sent a frame. Otherwise, we have a collision. That is why they set length limits (minimal dist between devices, max length of segment (== "collision domain"), max. number of devices per segment, and so on. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From steve at scshome.net Mon Mar 8 19:32:00 2004 From: steve at scshome.net (Steve Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... Message-ID: <200403090132.i291W0D06029@alex.scshome.net> Hi, Do you still have the V4.2 source online anywhere? Trying to copy it from harhan.org is painful at best. Regards, -Steve Davidson Hollis, NH. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 8 14:10:17 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? In-Reply-To: <005e01c4053d$6a71bfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <005e01c4053d$6a71bfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040308211017.35252381.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:44:40 -0600 "Jay West" wrote: > 700 series were graphical workstations ... with PA-RISC 1.1 CPUs. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cctalk at drykid.plus.com Tue Mar 9 02:14:48 2004 From: cctalk at drykid.plus.com (Ian West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: OT - Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players NOS References: <404D43FD.3EACBB99@rain.org> Message-ID: <019201c405ae$96c29740$0100a8c0@acmeqax5pma6my> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:11 AM Subject: OT - Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players NOS > > I just got a call from a friend of mine who has a number of NOS > Panasonic LDV-1000 Video Disk Players. These are the type that were used > in some of the early video games like Cinamatronics Space Ace. Is there > any interest in them from list members? Apparently the only thing wrong > is that the boxes got damaged but the units themselves are fine. Let me > know via email if you are interested. Might be worth posting something in rec.games.video.arcade.collecting, there's often people trying to restore / repair laser disk games there. From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Mar 9 03:36:39 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F71@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> I am not sure that removing the brake will help. I once heard the following rumour: the brake in combination with the 'heavy' motor makes sure that the disk platters always rotate in the same direction, never for a short instance in the other direction (vibration, power flutter, whatever reason). Rotation in the opposite direction, for any short moment, will cause the air on which the r/w head fly to disappear and result in an immediate head crash ... As I said, it is a rumour I once heard a few years ago. Has anybody heard of this too? gd luck with your drive, - Henk, PA8PDP > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad@heeltoe.com] > Sent: dinsdag 9 maart 2004 2:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? > > > >Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >>IIRC there's a microswitch which detects that the tensioner > >>lever is in the 'tensioned' position, but nothing more. Of > >>course the drive does check that the spindle is rotating at > >>the right speed when it's spun up. > > I pulled the HDA - the belt tension switch was fine. > > I found, however, the electric brake was *extremely* tight. So much > friction that I doubt very much the motor could spin at all. > I removed it (I'll sand down the 'brake pad' later). > > Hoping for a small miracle I fired it back up but still no joy - the > motor (now free) refused to spin up. > > [a side note: the unit does not seem to reset no power up - > it comes up with all lights on until I click the reset manually. > sometime tells me this is a symptom] > > I need some prints so I can trace the motor power back to the micro... > > Any have prints for an R80 (or RA80/RB80/RM80). Or an RA81? > I suspect they are similar in terms of motor drive... > > -brad From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Mar 9 02:51:55 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: <404D2213.5080806@jcwren.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308130534.00848100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308201117.007bbe80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <404D2213.5080806@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20040309095155.55ba577e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:46:59 -0500 "J.C. Wren" wrote: > I do know that until the 60/75GXP problem, I'd > have zero hesitations about buying IBM drives, and had Deskstars in a > number of systems at work. They're as good or better than Maxtor, and > > there's no comparing them to WD drives I have _lots_ of broken IBM 066? drives and all IBM DFHS drives I came acros have sticky heads. Much to my surprise the two DCAS seem to be very reliable. So it very much depend on the actual model. It seems IBM likes to produce some lemons... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Mar 9 05:17:36 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:32:00 EST." <200403090132.i291W0D06029@alex.scshome.net> Message-ID: <200403091117.i29BHau13588@mwave.heeltoe.com> Steve Davidson wrote: >Hi, > >Do you still have the V4.2 source online anywhere? Trying to copy it from >harhan.org is painful at best. heh. My window is up to 30% on the 4.2 sources and it's been 3 days :-) (but amazingly, it keeps going at 115bytes/second; the traceroute makes it look like it's some sort of dialup) if anyone else has a mirror I'd like to know... (but in another 3 days I should have it! :-) -brad From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 9 06:15:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? In-Reply-To: <20040308211017.35252381.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <005e01c4053d$6a71bfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <005e01c4053d$6a71bfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040309071526.00875d40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:10 PM 3/8/04 +0100, Jochen wrote: >On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:44:40 -0600 >"Jay West" wrote: > >> 700 series were graphical workstations >... with PA-RISC 1.1 CPUs. >;-) >-- Once I figured out what model it was (745i/50) I searched and found this site . It's got some good descriptions of the PA RISC CPUs, OS ports etc. Joe From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Mar 9 06:03:31 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040309070045.0252ce40@mail.n.ml.org> Geez Sellam, is that a Vax power cable or an elephant trunk?! hehe. It looks big enough to replace receptacles of a hook-up for an emergency power generator to a house, damn... -John Boffemmyer IV At 01:11 PM 3/8/2004, you wrote: >On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > The VAX8600 was targeted at large IBM sites, so they put in an oversized > > power cable and receptacle, that was the same as for the IBM equipment > > they planned to replace. > >Yeah, check it out: > >http://www.siconic.com/computers/vax3.jpg > >It's bigger than my hand. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 9 02:22:32 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard Message-ID: <20040309082232.1927.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll... please take a look at these three pictures: http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard1.bmp http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard2.bmp http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard3.bmp The first two show the keys, the third shows one of two connectors that it apparently interfaces the computer with. The two "plugs" are 8pin jacks... like cat5 but in a wider, more spread out form. The most noteable things about this keyboard are as follows: Interesting Keys: Cancel Move Help Action Over Type Finish Copy Lock Code (instead of ctrl) shift + 6 would give you the "cent" or "penny" sign (a "c" with a line though it) F1, F2, F3, F8, F9, F10 all have lights Return instead of Enter 1/4 1/2 fraction key... 1/4 is on top... key is next to "P" Number pad: GO Next Arrow Pad: Mark Bound Anyone know system this keyboard is from? The only markings are from the company "Datapoint Corporation" "Model No. 93-1222-001" "Serial No. 978870" It's UL and CSA certified. Other then this there are absolutely no markings. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 9 03:54:36 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Interesting Ebay Auctions... DEC stuff Message-ID: <20040309095436.93733.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Here is a list of ebay auctions for you DEC fanatics. Lyos Gemini Norezel DEC http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793020954&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793017549&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793029854&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793050911&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793050636&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793050381&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793049969&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793049673&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793049323&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793048837&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793047713&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793046333&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793044749&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793042405&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793039499&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793037828&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792991693&category=1247 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 9 03:57:34 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Interesting Ebay Auctions... Commodore, Apple, TI99/4(A) Message-ID: <20040309095734.7417.qmail@web41708.mail.yahoo.com> Here are some ebay auction items for you [Commodore, Apple, TI99/4(A)] fans. Lyos Gemini Norezel Commodore http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793020553&category=4598 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2791733124&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2791732403&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793069188&category=4598 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793069030&category=4598 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793062603&category=4598 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793052231&category=4193 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792901992&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793009297&category=4598 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793022322&category=4193 Apple http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793025231&category=4193 TI99/4(A) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793033543&category=4193 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793059248&category=4193 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 9 04:01:04 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Interesting Ebay Auctions... Atari, MISC, and Manuals/Books(various) Message-ID: <20040309100104.19402.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> And finally we come to the Ebay Auctions for the Atari nuts... and some miscellaneous items, and for those how enjoy them some various Manuals and books from the good ol' days. Lyos Gemini Norezel Atari http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793020815&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3082398224&category=62054 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3083655654&category=1250 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793015223&category=1247 MISC http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793069085&category=162 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793068508&category=4193 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793066136&category=4193 <--very interesting http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793065507&category=162 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793065331&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793055191&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793052929&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793049604&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793043443&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793015889&category=162 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793014650&category=4193 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793002656&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792814773&category=162 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792998467&category=4193 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792990060&category=162 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2791652675&category=4193 Manuals/Books http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793065509&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2792902033&category=1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2793041093&category=3519 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665617319&category=21092 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665616637&category=21092 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665615565&category=21092 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665613384&category=21092 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665612286&category=21092 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665610005&category=21092 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From shirsch at adelphia.net Tue Mar 9 06:45:12 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: <20040309095155.55ba577e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:46:59 -0500 > "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > > I do know that until the 60/75GXP problem, I'd > > have zero hesitations about buying IBM drives, and had Deskstars in a > > number of systems at work. They're as good or better than Maxtor, and > > > > there's no comparing them to WD drives > I have _lots_ of broken IBM 066? drives and all IBM DFHS drives I came > acros have sticky heads. Have you contacted Hitachi about the DFHS models? At one point IBM produced a firmware upgrade to boost startup torque on the DFHS and similar models. It was a known problem, IIRC. Steve From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 9 06:48:30 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <006801c4053d$802ea120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <002d01c405d4$d3f83040$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > http://208.190.133.201/decimages/m186btc.pdf > > THANKS! There's definitely some info there I had been looking > for and was unaware of the site. http://vt100.net/manx can find almost anything that's online. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From bqt at update.uu.se Tue Mar 9 07:23:57 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 Gooijen H wrote: > I am not sure that removing the brake will help. More likely not. In fact, the break is there for a reason. To stop the drive when spinning down. Otherwise, it will spin for a long time. I also suspect that the break is engaged until you try to spin the disk up, so that the disk don't swing back and forth just because you move the drive around. > I once heard the following rumour: > the brake in combination with the 'heavy' motor > makes sure that the disk platters always rotate > in the same direction, never for a short instance > in the other direction (vibration, power flutter, > whatever reason). Rotation in the opposite direction, > for any short moment, will cause the air on which the > r/w head fly to disappear and result in an immediate > head crash ... Are you suggesting that a platter, weighting several kilograms, spinning at something like 3600 rpm, suddenly can change spin direction at a millisecond notice? > As I said, it is a rumour I once heard a few years ago. > Has anybody heard of this too? That's one of the more outrageous rumours I've ever heard. :-) The amount of energy required to do that trick would blow every fuse in your house, and then some. We're talking about living mass here. Physics, you know... ;-) However, vibration can cause a head crash... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 9 07:50:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1078840239.28470.21.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-03-09 at 13:23, Johnny Billquist wrote: > I also > suspect that the break is engaged until you try to spin the disk up, I believe you can hear the solenoid brake make a loud clunk noise as it disengages just prior to spin-up. Aside: I noticed on both of our units that have spin-up problems, that the pulley on the bottom of the HDA was worn quite well. Although belt tension is fine on both units and the belt appears to be gripping the pulley very well, I did wonder if under start-up conditions it was slipping. > > I once heard the following rumour: > > the brake in combination with the 'heavy' motor > > makes sure that the disk platters always rotate > > in the same direction, never for a short instance > > in the other direction (vibration, power flutter, > > whatever reason). Rotation in the opposite direction, > > for any short moment, will cause the air on which the > > r/w head fly to disappear and result in an immediate > > head crash ... > > Are you suggesting that a platter, weighting several kilograms, spinning > at something like 3600 rpm, suddenly can change spin direction at a > millisecond notice? Maybe the motor's prone to kick back in the other direction for a fraction of a turn when it comes to rest, and that would be enough to trash the heads... I am quite surprised that they bothered with a brake without a good reason - these drives weren't exactly intended to shifted around a lot, so who cares if it took 5 minutes to spin down naturally? Mind you, different era I suppose - the same thing could be argued about a serial diagnostic interface to the drive, but I'm glad it's there :-) cheers Jules From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 9 07:55:41 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040309070045.0252ce40@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: The connection between the units looks like an old transit coupler (Lindall?) and is only slightly smaller. On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Geez Sellam, is that a Vax power cable or an elephant trunk?! hehe. It > looks big enough to replace receptacles of a hook-up for an emergency power > generator to a house, damn... > > -John Boffemmyer IV > > At 01:11 PM 3/8/2004, you wrote: > >On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > > The VAX8600 was targeted at large IBM sites, so they put in an oversized > > > power cable and receptacle, that was the same as for the IBM equipment > > > they planned to replace. > > > >Yeah, check it out: > > > >http://www.siconic.com/computers/vax3.jpg > > > >It's bigger than my hand. > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 9 08:52:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: KL-10 question References: Message-ID: <16461.55836.910052.940832@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> The VAX8600 was targeted at large IBM sites, so they put in an >> oversized power cable and receptacle, that was the same as for the >> IBM equipment they planned to replace. Vintage> Yeah, check it out: Vintage> http://www.siconic.com/computers/vax3.jpg Vintage> It's bigger than my hand. I think those are called "Russell-Stoll" connectors -- standard industrial grade connectors especially for high current 3 phase power. The cable doesn't look all that fat, not as bad as the KL-10 cable I remember. It should be marked with a wire gauge and wire type (for example "ST 8AWG" and perhaps a temperature rating. That information will give you the current rating. Since copper is expensive, even if the plug is oversize the cable might not be. The cable in the picture could be a 40 amp 3phase cable, or somewhere in that range. By the way, electrical equiment generally has a "name plate" which is a label with electrical information near where the cable comes into the cabinet. I'd expect something like that somewhere on the KL-10 power inlet box or power distribution unit. That should answer the question, or at least give an upper bound. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Mar 9 09:01:36 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:22:32 PST." <20040309082232.1927.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200403091501.i29F1aF17867@mwave.heeltoe.com> Lyos Norezel wrote: >Hey ya'll... please take a look at these three pictures: >http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard1.bmp >http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard2.bmp >http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard3.bmp yahoo is not your friend - can't get to these links. -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Mar 9 09:06:41 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "09 Mar 2004 13:50:39 GMT." <1078840239.28470.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403091506.i29F6fe17956@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jules Richardson wrote: > >I believe you can hear the solenoid brake make a loud clunk noise as it >disengages just prior to spin-up. humm. interesting. And makes sense that it would be "engaged" until power comes to it. I hear no clunk and it's definitely not disengaging. another clue :-) I need schematics, but have found none... -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 9 09:20:36 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: Message-ID: <16461.57540.491360.757029@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: >> > Given that this stuff was often hidden in suspended ceilings > >> and suchlike, it would be quite tricky to check that adjacent > >> stripes (or two adjacent stripes) were unused (I assume the rule > >> applies in both directions. Surely it would have been easier > to >> miss out the unusuable stripes? Fred> Correct, this cable was usually on those ceilings, with taps Fred> being set up there, and then an AUI dropcable down the wall to Fred> the device, or sometimes another converter that ran BNC to Fred> small devices. That would have to be a repeater, since you cannot install side stubs on an Ethernet coax. That's why thin Ethernet had the BNC T right on the device. Some installations used wires that look like a single piece of coax but in fact is a double coax, running from the wall outlet box to the back of the computer. I once saw an article describing how to go from thick to thin coax -- it showed a T connector for that, with a terminator! Not good, terminators never go on the middle of a coax. The correct answer was simply an N to BNC barrel converter. >> But I have actually never really understood why. Maybe just to not >> damage the cable to much with vampire taps? There cannot be an >> electrical or signal reason for this, as far as I can tell. Fred> For signal echo reasons, much like the requiement for Fred> terminators on both ends of the cable. If the devices are too Fred> close to eachother, there will be too *little* space (read: Fred> time) inbetween for them to check for any echo (collision). Fred> The transceiver will send out the first bit, and will then wait Fred> the minimal time (the time it takes to reach the first possible Fred> device on the cable) before it checks for collision. It then Fred> sends out the packet (if no coll.) and waits a full timeframe Fred> (meaning, the time maximally needed to reach a terminator, and Fred> then back) for a collision. If none, we have sent a frame. Fred> Otherwise, we have a collision. That's close but not quite. The spacing rule is to avoid having multiple taps that are integer multiples of a wavelength apart. Each tap unavoidably creates some disturbance of the cable impedance, which means electrical reflections. Those have to be kept low enough or the collision detect machinery breaks (it will mistake an excessive reflection for a collision). The maximum round trip delay on an Ethernet is 512 bit times, or 64 byte times, which is why the minimum packet size is 64 bytes. That ensures that when two stations transmit overlapping packets, both will see the collision. If shorter packets were used, it would be possible for packets to overlap at a station in the middle, yet the senders don't see it as a collision. Conversely, a "fragment" generated by a collision is always smaller than 64 bytes. There is no such thing as "send the first bit and wait to see if there is a collision". Instead, collision detection works by observing the voltage on the cable and comparing it with what you would get from a single transmitter. As the Ethernet spec puts it, "...the average DC signal on the coaxial cable implies a simultaneous transmit attempt by more than one station (a collision)..." (7.4.2.3.) paul From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Tue Mar 9 06:25:44 2004 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:00 2005 Subject: Acorn system one on eBay Message-ID: Interesting find on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2791743282&category=1247 From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Tue Mar 9 07:51:12 2004 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040308155217.008948b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308155217.008948b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Interrupt the boot process to get to the ISL prompt (you have 10 seconds to interrupt once it finishes its initial hw checks).. Then give it: hpux -is which will boot into single user mode. -Bob >Jay, > > Can you (or anyone else on the list) get around the password on one of >these? It's running HP-UX 9.05. The OS is installed on a MountainGate >IncreMeg 1 Gb removeable hard drive (nice drive!) I found that this one was >used on the Final Assembly Test Station for the Predator Autopilot! > > Joe > >At 12:44 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: >>700 series were graphical workstations >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe R." >>To: >>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:41 PM >>Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? >> >> >>> The title says it all. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>--- >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> >> -- bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Mar 9 06:52:23 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: References: <20040309095155.55ba577e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040309075013.0252a300@mail.n.ml.org> A couple years back, i remember actual IBM drives that had the glass platters. I liked those. Most of them that I worked with were reliable and the 2 that did crash and burn were fun to play with (see: disassembly; hammer and butane torch), grin. -John Boffemmyer IV At 07:45 AM 3/9/2004, you wrote: >On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:46:59 -0500 > > "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > > > > I do know that until the 60/75GXP problem, I'd > > > have zero hesitations about buying IBM drives, and had Deskstars in a > > > number of systems at work. They're as good or better than Maxtor, and > > > > > > there's no comparing them to WD drives > > I have _lots_ of broken IBM 066? drives and all IBM DFHS drives I came > > acros have sticky heads. > >Have you contacted Hitachi about the DFHS models? At one point IBM >produced a firmware upgrade to boost startup torque on the DFHS and >similar models. It was a known problem, IIRC. > >Steve ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From slotdelorean at telefonica.net Tue Mar 9 09:45:56 2004 From: slotdelorean at telefonica.net (jaume de la vega) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: grid Message-ID: <000801c3ceea$876f6700$d942fea9@y3qj80nvt2c2u8r> hi, you don?t know me, but in a internet searching i found a thread of a forum relating the EPROM problems in a gridcase computer, i have a grid with the brand "philips pc200" ??, but this is a grid, concretely the model with isa bus, i found than the four rom sockets back a soft plastic panel are empty and when i plug it on the only thing it does is show-me a "disk boot error" message, please if you can send me the eprom image files to be able to restore it. THANKS. From dmabry at mich.com Tue Mar 9 10:47:37 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: grid In-Reply-To: <000801c3ceea$876f6700$d942fea9@y3qj80nvt2c2u8r> References: <000801c3ceea$876f6700$d942fea9@y3qj80nvt2c2u8r> Message-ID: <404DF529.2090201@mich.com> Hello Jaume, Let me try to answer you on this. I suspect that you have a variety of GRiDCase. Those are the ones that I am familiar with that have ROM sockets. If you have the ISA bus slot, it sounds like you are talking about the one that has a chassis that attaches to the bottom of the computer itself. Maybe the 1535? If I am correct in the above, then the EPROM that goes into the sockets are a special format. You can create your own with software that is on the Yahoo site for Grid computers. It is a discussion forum for Grid systems and I have sent up the software to that forum for creating images of ROMs that work on the 1535 among others. I hope I am being clear. I'm not sure I can locate that software myself, but it is in that forum. You can create a ROM that allows the computer to boot from or put just any files into the ROM that fits. If you have more detailed questions, ask here and I'll try to answer. Dave Mabry jaume de la vega wrote: > hi, you don?t know me, but in a internet searching i found a thread > of a forum relating the EPROM problems in a gridcase computer, i have > a grid with the brand "philips pc200" ??, but this is a grid, > concretely the model with isa bus, i found than the four rom sockets > back a soft plastic panel are empty and when i plug it on the only > thing it does is show-me a "disk boot error" message, please if you > can send me the eprom image files to be able to restore it. > > THANKS. > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From allain at panix.com Tue Mar 9 11:07:32 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard References: <20040309082232.1927.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009f01c405f9$038ec3e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard1.bmp Save everybodies' bandwidth and compress those pictures. John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 9 11:14:27 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard In-Reply-To: <009f01c405f9$038ec3e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040309082232.1927.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <009f01c405f9$038ec3e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <388204D2-71ED-11D8-874E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Mar 9, 2004, at 11:07 AM, John Allain wrote: >> http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard1.bmp > > Save everybodies' bandwidth and compress those pictures. The end of that sentence was not what I expected.... Doc From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 9 11:15:14 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <1078840239.28470.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <001a01c405fa$169a7280$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I am quite surprised that they bothered with a brake without > a good reason - these drives weren't exactly intended to > shifted around a lot, so who cares if it took 5 minutes to > spin down naturally? Mind you, different era I suppose - the > same thing could be argued about a serial diagnostic > interface to the drive, but I'm glad it's there :-) I don't have anything to hand with prices for an RA8x drive, but if we skip along one era to the days of the RA90/RA92, the 1991 DECdirect catalogue shows ?14270 for an RA90 (and an RA92!) and ?8028 for an RA70 (280MB in case you'd forgotten). (Obviously you'd go for 4 RA70 drives and get your 1.1GB discounted to ?28550 :-)). Having spent a large fortune on your storage you would almost certainly have it on contract. So the last thing FS want to have to do is swap it out (??? in time and effort) only to find back at base that that some lead was loose or a simple adjustment or fix could have been made on-site. So I expect that the RS232 connector was there initially to help debug the thing while it was being designed and then left in as a useful FS tool. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 9 11:22:10 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <16461.57540.491360.757029@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001b01c405fb$0e20b050$5b01a8c0@athlon> > That would have to be a repeater, since you cannot install > side stubs on an Ethernet coax. That's why thin Ethernet had > the BNC T right on the device. I expect Fred meant vampire tap on the thickwire, AUI down to the "device" (presumably a DEMPR or DESPR) and then thinwire from that. > Some installations used wires > that look like a single piece of coax but in fact is a double > coax, running from the wall outlet box to the back of the computer. I have some of those in the attic (sitting in a box, not wired up!!) but these days RJ45 and wireless is so much easier. One day, when I get a proper computer room I'll have to make proper use of thinwire. I guess I could use thickwire too (given a big enough room) but I only have one vampire tap with H4000, no cable and no tools to do the actual attachment (although I do have one of those H4000 test devices). With one attachment I'm not sure I can really call it a network :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 9 11:51:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Where's Eric? was paging Eric Smith Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040309125109.00871b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> hi all, Eric bought an item that I had on E-bay about 6 weeks ago and I've emailed several times but I haven't gotten a response. After yesterday's posting I heard from a friend of his that also hasn't been able to contact him. Is there anyone in the same area as Eric that can check and find out what's happened to him? I had a phone number for him and I just tried calling it and the guy that answered said that Eric doesn't have that number any longer. It sounded as if he's gotten a lot of calls for Eric. Joe Eric are you out there? If then you need to contact me. I've sent you two E-mails and haven't gotten a reply. Joe From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 9 11:51:19 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? Message-ID: <200403091751.JAA05101@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Most all hard disk heads will damage the surface if rotated backwards. This is because the back edge is sharp enough to cut you as well as dig into the surface. Dwight >From: "Johnny Billquist" > >On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 Gooijen H wrote: > >> I am not sure that removing the brake will help. > >More likely not. In fact, the break is there for a reason. To stop the >drive when spinning down. Otherwise, it will spin for a long time. I also >suspect that the break is engaged until you try to spin the disk up, so >that the disk don't swing back and forth just because you move the drive >around. > >> I once heard the following rumour: >> the brake in combination with the 'heavy' motor >> makes sure that the disk platters always rotate >> in the same direction, never for a short instance >> in the other direction (vibration, power flutter, >> whatever reason). Rotation in the opposite direction, >> for any short moment, will cause the air on which the >> r/w head fly to disappear and result in an immediate >> head crash ... > >Are you suggesting that a platter, weighting several kilograms, spinning >at something like 3600 rpm, suddenly can change spin direction at a >millisecond notice? > >> As I said, it is a rumour I once heard a few years ago. >> Has anybody heard of this too? > >That's one of the more outrageous rumours I've ever heard. :-) >The amount of energy required to do that trick would blow every fuse in >your house, and then some. We're talking about living mass here. Physics, >you know... ;-) > >However, vibration can cause a head crash... > > Johnny > >Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip >email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books >pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 9 12:10:29 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... Message-ID: <0403091810.AA12841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Steve Davidson wrote: > Do you still have the V4.2 source online anywhere? Trying to copy it from > harhan.org is painful at best. If you want it to be less painful, buy me a T1 subscription (would have to be from WorldCom/UUNET, I have a Class C NET from them and I won't give it up) and a sync serial card for either VAXBI bus or Q22-bus that can handle it. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 9 12:18:42 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... Message-ID: <0403091818.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > (but amazingly, it keeps going at 115bytes/second; the traceroute makes it > look like it's some sort of dialup) Yes, my connection is a 31200 bps permanently-up circuit-switched connection (I wouldn't call it dialup as regular dialups don't get Class C NETs like I have). I have this service because it is the lowest-priced business Inet service from WorldCom/UUNET (now called MCI). It had to be a *business* service from them in order for me to get a Class C NET from them, and it had to be WorldCom as they were the only ones who just gave it to me without charging me an extra arm and a leg for it. (Also WorldCom was cheaper than all other business Inet services, though again I only considered business services as they are the only ones that give full Class C NETs.) Except for being slow (but that's fair, you get what you pay for), I'm very satisfied with UUNET and won't switch. MS From bernd at kopriva.de Tue Mar 9 13:01:10 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403091914.i29JEaJ2015144@huey.classiccmp.org> Last weak i heard, that second-hand car dealers put a cup of drip grind into "smelly" cars for one day ... ... i don't know, if this works (neither for cars nor for computers) , but maybe it's worth a try Bernd On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:49:24 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >Does anyone know if it would be safe to put a dish of Vinegar inside >a computer? I've got a Sun Ultra 60 that smells. I've already >sprayed the foam and fans with Lysol, and I've taken bleach to the >foam as well, plus I'm getting ready to put the front (which is the >foam that smells the worst) through the dishwasher. > >However, the inside of the computer smells some as well, and it's >been suggested that I stick an open dish of vinegar in/near the >computer, changing the vinegar a couple times a day for a couple >days. I'm slightly nervous about this as Vinegar is 5% acidic. > >I'm just afraid to have the system in the house, and power it up >until I get the smell beat down thanks to my allergies. > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Mar 9 13:21:38 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <404CCCD2.F11E6C46@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040309192138.76142.qmail@web12403.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > > The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the > searches I used to use > was: > > (s-100,altair,imsai) -canon -samsung -minolta > > They hyphen is not recognized, and instead of > bringing up the stuff I am > interested in, 521 items get brought up including > junk like "70`S AND > 80`S AND 90`S 100 baseball and football cards". > > Your way of searching will totally exclude items > that got posted in the > wrong catagory and other such items. > Yes, but what you basically doing is equivalent to looking at every single table in a gigantic flea market, regardless whether the vendor is selling tee shirts or electronics, and hoping that the tee shirt guy has an Altair underneath his table. Fine, this is a wonderful way of getting bargains, but your going to have to pay the price another way, by spending hours wading through tons of crap, this is no different on ebay. You can tell Ebay to put any filters you want in their search engine, but sellers are always going to find new ways to trick you into finding their auctions. Maybe a compromise is to search a couple high level categories, like computers,Business & Industrial, consumer electronics and skip over the Sports and Stamps and the like. This will save you some time and not limit your search too much. steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Mar 9 13:18:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard In-Reply-To: <200403091501.i29F1aF17867@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200403091501.i29F1aF17867@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200403091921.OAA20080@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Hey ya'll... please take a look at these three pictures: >> http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard1.bmp >> http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard2.bmp >> http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard3.bmp > yahoo is not your friend - can't get to these links. I got to them fine - well, the first one at least. It was a 302 to http://us.share.geocities.com/lyosnorezel/keyboard1.bmp. I fetched that, but bmptoppm fell over hard on the result: [Sparkle] 911> stripheader < us.share.geocities.com\%lyosnorezel\%keyboard1.bmp | bmptoppm > keyboard1.ppm bmptoppm: Windows BMP, 637x825x24 bmptoppm: cbFix: 40 bmptoppm: cx: 637 bmptoppm: cy: 825 bmptoppm: cPlanes: 1 bmptoppm: cBitCount: 24 bmptoppm: warning: offBits is 54, expected 67108918 Broken pipe (core dumped) [Sparkle] 912> /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From allain at panix.com Tue Mar 9 13:24:03 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: KL-10 question References: Message-ID: <019b01c4060c$15aab620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > http://www.siconic.com/computers/vax3.jpg > It's bigger than my hand. Reminiscent of Hubbell 100A connectors. See some here: http://images.grainger.com/images/catalog/395/528.pdf ( p.528 http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/catalogPDF.shtml ) John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 9 13:43:37 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Where's Eric? was paging Eric Smith In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040309125109.00871b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040309125109.00871b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >him. Is there anyone in the same area as Eric that can check and find out >what's happened to him? Try contacting Al Kossow aek@spies.com, if anyone knows what's up with Eric, he probably does. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 9 14:02:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? In-Reply-To: <006a01c40550$3edfe680$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040308155217.008948b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040309150217.008cb100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:59 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: >The age-old trick is boot to single user mode, then change the password with >the passwd command. Well I've tried everything that I can think of and everything that everyone suggested. I get the ISL> prompt but I can't run PASSWD. The help screen says to use LS to display th ISL utilities. When I do that the only things listed are FS, HPUX and ODE. I tried to execute a couple of common programs like VI and it doesn't find them either. One of the Man pages that I found online said that if you turn the Autoboot off and then load ISL that you will have access to "any isl command name or the name of any utility available on the system" but that doesn't seem to be the case. HELP! Joe > >As I recall on HP-UX, during the boot process you'll see a line about "init >something something"... I believe you hit space here, then type the same >init line but append "-s" to designate going to single user. If this totally >vague and possibly inaccurate email doesn't help, let me know and I'll go >boot up a box to refresh my memory. > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >; "Steve Robertson" >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:52 PM >Subject: Re: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > > >> Jay, >> >> Can you (or anyone else on the list) get around the password on one of >> these? It's running HP-UX 9.05. The OS is installed on a MountainGate >> IncreMeg 1 Gb removeable hard drive (nice drive!) I found that this one >was >> used on the Final Assembly Test Station for the Predator Autopilot! >> >> Joe >> >> At 12:44 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: >> >700 series were graphical workstations >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Joe R." >> >To: >> >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:41 PM >> >Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? >> > >> > >> >> The title says it all. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >--- >> >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> > >> > >> > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 9 06:31:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <20040309192138.76142.qmail@web12403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, steve wrote: > Maybe a compromise is to search a couple high level categories, like > computers,Business & Industrial, consumer electronics and skip over the > Sports and Stamps and the like. This will save you some time and not > limit your search too much. I think the better compromise is to move your business over to a service that is responsive to its user's needs, like, for instance, the Vintage Computer Marketplace ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 9 06:32:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Paging John Allain... Message-ID: ...are you getting my messages? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 9 14:32:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? References: <3.0.6.32.20040308134138.00842580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20040308155217.008948b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040309150217.008cb100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01fd01c40615$9c258140$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I believe I saw someone post the correct incantation later on the list than the below email... interacting with ISL and doing hpux -is or somesuch. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > At 02:59 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: > >The age-old trick is boot to single user mode, then change the password with > >the passwd command. > > Well I've tried everything that I can think of and everything that > everyone suggested. I get the ISL> prompt but I can't run PASSWD. The help > screen says to use LS to display th ISL utilities. When I do that the only > things listed are FS, HPUX and ODE. I tried to execute a couple of common > programs like VI and it doesn't find them either. One of the Man pages that > I found online > said that > if you turn the Autoboot off and then load ISL that you will have access to > "any isl command name or the name of any utility available on the system" > but that doesn't seem to be the case. > > HELP! > > Joe > > > > > > >As I recall on HP-UX, during the boot process you'll see a line about "init > >something something"... I believe you hit space here, then type the same > >init line but append "-s" to designate going to single user. If this totally > >vague and possibly inaccurate email doesn't help, let me know and I'll go > >boot up a box to refresh my memory. > > > >Jay West > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >; "Steve Robertson" > >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:52 PM > >Subject: Re: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > > > > > >> Jay, > >> > >> Can you (or anyone else on the list) get around the password on one of > >> these? It's running HP-UX 9.05. The OS is installed on a MountainGate > >> IncreMeg 1 Gb removeable hard drive (nice drive!) I found that this one > >was > >> used on the Final Assembly Test Station for the Predator Autopilot! > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> At 12:44 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: > >> >700 series were graphical workstations > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: "Joe R." > >> >To: > >> >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:41 PM > >> >Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? > >> > > >> > > >> >> The title says it all. > >> >> > >> >> Joe > >> >> > >> >--- > >> >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Mar 9 14:49:55 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Anyone familar with the HP 9000 700i Series computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040309150217.008cb100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 02:59 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote: > >The age-old trick is boot to single user mode, then change the password with > >the passwd command. > > Well I've tried everything that I can think of and everything that > everyone suggested. I get the ISL> prompt but I can't run PASSWD. The help > screen says to use LS to display th ISL utilities. When I do that the only > things listed are FS, HPUX and ODE. I tried to execute a couple of common > programs like VI and it doesn't find them either. One of the Man pages that > I found online > said that > if you turn the Autoboot off and then load ISL that you will have access to > "any isl command name or the name of any utility available on the system" > but that doesn't seem to be the case. > I found this little note to myself in my home directory. Its probably something I found on the net... Have someone type "sync" about four times while the system is idle. Cycle power on the machine and when the prompt comes for the autoboot stop it, say you want to boot from the primary path, and you want to interact with IPL. Type "hpux -is (;0)/hp-ux" for 9.X and "hpux -is (;0)/stand/vmunix" for 10.X and it will bring the system up in single user mode. Depending on your filesystem layout you may need to mount the /usr partition. When it's up, do what you need to get a password file in place and then run "/etc/shutdown -r now" for 9.X or "/usr/sbin/shutdown -r now" for 10.X. It will probably do some file system checks but should be ok. Peter Wallace From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 9 15:47:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Where's Eric? was paging Eric Smith In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040309125109.00871b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Mar 9, 4 12:51:09 pm Message-ID: > > hi all, > > > Eric bought an item that I had on E-bay about 6 weeks ago and I've > emailed several times but I haven't gotten a response. After yesterday's I received a private e-mail from him last weekend. I sent a reply, but haven't heard from him again (this didn't suprise me, my reply didn't need a further reply). -tony From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Mar 9 15:50:42 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: GEEEEEEEEEEZE! In-Reply-To: References: <20040309095155.55ba577e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040309225042.63f83353.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:45:12 -0500 (EST) "Steven N. Hirsch" wrote: > Have you contacted Hitachi about the DFHS models? At one point IBM > produced a firmware upgrade to boost startup torque on the DFHS and > similar models. It was a known problem, IIRC. I care about my RL02 or the 9" SMD disks, but I don't care that much about old SCSI drives. It doesn't need a new firmware to get the drives spining. Just a litle kick with the handle of a screw driver solves the problem. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 9 16:12:28 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... In-Reply-To: <0403091810.AA12841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <001f01c40623$9c703d80$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If you want it to be less painful, buy me a T1 subscription > (would have to be from WorldCom/UUNET, I have a Class C NET > from them and I won't give it up) and a sync serial card for > either VAXBI bus or Q22-bus that can handle it. The fastest you can get on Qbus is the DSV11. That can almost handle 1Mb/s (it fails when fed a constant stream of minimal length HDLC frames so it was rated at 256kb/s - the next lower useful speed). On BI you have either the DMB32 (64kb/s max) or the DSB32. I forget how fast the DSB32 can go, it might be able to reach 256kb/s (possibly only on a single port though) but I'm pretty sure it won't do T1 speeds. The DSB32 is also not an option if you have a VAX 7000 (although I think the DMB32 will work in a VAX 7000). I suspect that for T1 speeds you'll be stuck using an Alpha or possibly a DECnis, but you'll have to check that they will cope before you (or your T1 benefactor) rush out and buy either of those solutions. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 9 16:49:02 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: c64 guru: save a file again Message-ID: It seems I can't save a file twice with the same name ... write basic program ... save "program",8 ... edit basic program ... save "program",8 (light on floppy blinks - error ) verify "program",8 wont verify ... power cycle ... load "program",8 ... view program ... it's the old program, not the edited program. this behaviour noted on both a read c64sx (before it croaked) and on the VICE emulator. I can't seem to see anything in the manual about it.. and also no command to delete a file. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Mar 9 17:46:50 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: c64 guru: save a file again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4976.65.123.179.145.1078876010.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Just checked the owner's book and it doesn't mention that it overwrites. Probably have to number your programs, such as PROG1, PROG2, etc. When finished, just save as PROG. Gary Hildebrand > > It seems I can't save a file twice with the same name > > ... write basic program ... > > save "program",8 > > ... edit basic program ... > > save "program",8 > (light on floppy blinks - error ) > > verify "program",8 > wont verify > > ... power cycle ... > > load "program",8 > > ... view program ... it's the old program, not the edited program. > > this behaviour noted on both a read c64sx (before it croaked) and on > the VICE emulator. > > I can't seem to see anything in the manual about it.. and also no > command to delete a file. > > From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 9 18:35:00 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: EBAY??? References: <20040309192138.76142.qmail@web12403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <404E62B4.76029969@rain.org> steve wrote: > > --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > The Ebay search engine is a bad joke. One of the > > searches I used to use > > Your way of searching will totally exclude items > > that got posted in the > > wrong catagory and other such items. > > > Yes, but what you basically doing is equivalent to > looking at every single table in a gigantic flea > market, regardless whether the vendor is selling tee > ebay. You can tell Ebay to put any filters you want > in their search engine, but sellers are always going > to find new ways to trick you into finding their > auctions. I don't want Ebay to do anything more than provide a decent search engine. It is not up to *anyone* to tell me how or what to search for (no offense meant to anyone.) I am more than competent to decide for myself what I want to search for. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 9 19:01:25 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... Message-ID: <0403100101.AA13293@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > The fastest you can get on Qbus is the DSV11. I know, I have one, and I used it for my Inet connection when I lived in Dallas and had a 64 kbit/s DDS line. It's rated for up to 256 kbit/s with one channel active or 64 kbit/s with both channels active. > That can almost > handle 1Mb/s (it fails when fed a constant stream of minimal > length HDLC frames so it was rated at 256kb/s - the next > lower useful speed). Do you have any more details about DSV11 operation above the rated 256 kbit/s? What exactly is the real limit and what are the limiting factors? I have the technical description (EK-DSV11-TD), but it isn't absolutely clear. > The DSB32 is also > not an option if you have a VAX 7000 I'm not using a VAX 7000 (and don't consider it a real VAX thanks to LSB and whatever else they broke in NVAX+ when they fit it into an Alpha pinout), but I'm curious why. I mean, how is DSB32 special? I recently searched for DSB32 on Google and came upon a posting by you saying the same thing, there you also said it had something to do with the way its firmware locked memory. What exactly is wrong with it? Does it strictly follow the VAXBI spec or was it given an exception? Does it use IRCI/UWMCI pairs exactly as the spec says or is it broken? Or is the VAX 7000 kludge the one at fault here in that the memory is not presented to VAXBI as prescribed by chapter 8 of the VAXBI spec (the Must Respond Set for Memory Slave), and DSB32 just happens to be the only device that uses everything that the spec says is allowed? Or will all VAXBI devices that use BVP (interlocked queues) not work on VAX 7000 because its VAXBI interface to memory (through XMI and LSB) does not support IRCI and UWMCI? That would be DSB32, AIE/AIO (DEBNx TK50/TK70/Ethernet), all BI-to-CI adapters, DWBUA if some UNIBUS device accesses memory with DATIP-DATO (which turn into IRCI/UWMCI), what else? You said DMB32 should work, I guess it isn't using interlocked queues. But then again IRCI and UWMCI are the in the Must Respond Set for memory nodes (section 8.2.2), so it would just mean that VAX 7000 is not a real VAX as I've been saying all along. > I suspect that for T1 speeds you'll be stuck using an > Alpha or possibly a DECnis, Well, neither Alpha nor DECnis firmware run 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, so those are not my options (I love my 4.3BSD-Quasijarus based router and won't give it up), but there is one more option: build a new sync serial card! We can even build both Q22-bus and VAXBI versions. MS From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 9 13:08:34 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <001b01c405fb$0e20b050$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <16461.57540.491360.757029@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <001b01c405fb$0e20b050$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040309190834.GA20079@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:22:10PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > I guess I could use thickwire too (given a big enough room) but I > only have one vampire tap with H4000, no cable and no tools > to do the actual attachment (although I do have one of those H4000 > test devices). With one attachment I'm not sure I can really call it > a network :-) I have entertained thoughts of a Thickwire segment on my home network. I have a couple of vampire taps, at least one intrusive transceiver (N connectors rather than the tap), but no cable. I think I would also need to at least borrow one of the proper step drills of the day unless there's a workable kludge I could do. It seems like the perfect thing to hook my Unibus gear to. Ah... someday. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 09-Mar-2004 18:59 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -68.4 F (-55.8 C) Windchill -87.40 F (-66.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.6 kts Grid 078 Barometer 670.2 mb (10997. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 9 19:19:46 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: <200403091914.i29JEaJ2015144@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403091914.i29JEaJ2015144@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <404E6D32.9090503@internet1.net> Hopefully, he uses un-used coffee! Old stale coffee can really make a garbage can stink! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Last weak i heard, that second-hand car dealers put a cup of drip grind into "smelly" cars for one day ... > ... i don't know, if this works (neither for cars nor for computers) , but maybe it's worth a try From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 9 19:24:19 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... In-Reply-To: References: <404D3B70.4090007@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > >Seriously, how about Febreeze? And what's it smell like? Febreze contains a really stinky soapy flowery smellifying agent, as far as I'm concerned I'd rather smell cat pee than these cheap laundry stenches. (How or WHY one does this in a product that 'removes smells' is beyond me.) Go to a pet store and get NATURE'S MIRACLE or similar product. This stuff will descent a skunk and has NO ODOR. It's basically water with some enzymes so mild you could probably drink it. It won't kill mildew however, but it de-stinks pretty much anything. From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 9 19:32:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > > I once heard the following rumour: > > the brake in combination with the 'heavy' motor > > makes sure that the disk platters always rotate > > in the same direction, never for a short instance > > in the other direction (vibration, power flutter, Depending on how the motor is wound, etc, it might be possible *WHEN STARTING THE MOTOR FROM A DEAD STOP* that if initially spun the wrong direction when power is applied, that it could spin up reverse direction. The rotor is pushed around the stator by discrete angular magnetic "bumps" and unless the magnetic field is bent with shade poles or whatever the motor design uses, it could start 'backwards'. Most motors provide for such a thing one way or another. There are a lot of motor designs. I have no specific information on the motor used in this drive. > Are you suggesting that a platter, weighting several kilograms, spinning > at something like 3600 rpm, suddenly can change spin direction at a > millisecond notice? This would be ummm interesting if you could make it happen... :-) From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 9 19:35:41 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: KL-10 question In-Reply-To: <16461.55836.910052.940832@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16461.55836.910052.940832@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > By the way, electrical equiment generally has a "name plate" which is > a label with electrical information near where the cable comes into > the cabinet. I'd expect something like that somewhere on the KL-10 > power inlet box or power distribution unit. That should answer the > question, or at least give an upper bound. But electrical switchboxes, used often in large devices, have their OWN rating, and it's not uncommon to have a switch box capable of 50A or 100A to be installed on a machine that draws say 20A at 440. The switchbox is probably an off-the-shelf item, available as 50A, 100A, 400A, etc. At 220/208 it'll draw twice that, etc. The short if it is that the switchbox rating may have little to do with the power needs of the computer, except that switchbox rating > computer load. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Mar 9 20:00:42 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... In-Reply-To: <001f01c40623$9c703d80$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <0403091810.AA12841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <001f01c40623$9c703d80$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040310020042.GL1035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Antonio Carlini, from writings of Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:12:28PM -0000: > The fastest you can get on Qbus is the DSV11. That can almost [...] > I suspect that for T1 speeds you'll be stuck using an > Alpha or possibly a DECnis, but you'll have to check [...] This is interesting. Why then do DECvoice and Fallon FAX cards, for a Qbus VAX, have connectors for a T1 line on them? Not being very familiar with telephone equipment with T1 lines, perhaps I'm overlooking something. Any thoughts on this? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From thompson at new.rr.com Tue Mar 9 20:19:12 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... In-Reply-To: <20040310020042.GL1035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <0403091810.AA12841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <001f01c40623$9c703d80$5b01a8c0@athlon> <20040310020042.GL1035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > This is interesting. Why then do DECvoice and Fallon FAX cards, for a > Qbus VAX, have connectors for a T1 line on them? Not being very > familiar with telephone equipment with T1 lines, perhaps I'm > overlooking something. Any thoughts on this? These treat the T1 as 24 separate voice channels rather than one data pipe. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 9 20:21:41 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... Message-ID: <0403100221.AA13427@ivan.Harhan.ORG> R. D. Davis wrote: > This is interesting. Why then do DECvoice and Fallon FAX cards, for a > Qbus VAX, have connectors for a T1 line on them? Not being very > familiar with telephone equipment with T1 lines, perhaps I'm > overlooking something. Any thoughts on this? In telephony applications a T1 is split into 24 channels each carrying a phone call. When, however, someone speaks about T1 as a dedicated line for Inet, a device called a CSU/DSU takes the entire T1 payload (all 24 channels together) and turns it into an EIA-422 or V.35 synchronous serial stream that a router then has to deal with. In fractional T1 applications the CSU/DSU is reconfigured to take fewer than all 24 channels, reducing the bit rate on the EIA-422 or V.35 line. MS From tponsford at theriver.com Tue Mar 9 20:26:40 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: A good day at the Auction. Message-ID: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> Hi All, Well it was a good day for classic stuff at the U of A auction today. For a whopping $2.50 i got: A HP 9000 200 (double stack), have not looked inside yet. powers on but I need to make a cable for a serial console. A HP 7673 Controller! Whatever that is (same kind of case as the 9000 200) A HP external storage case w/HDD a floppy with HP1B connector A HP 9000 Apollo series 400, boots fine but has no HDD. AND a box of around hundred and fifty 5 1/4 floppies that included: 1 complete set of AT&T Unix PC V.3.0 (32 disks) and probably 3-4 more "broken" sets that are missing a few disks. I wanna kick myself for passing on the AT&T 7300 in pristine condition about two months ago for about $5.00 concluding I'd never find the Unix to go with it. Go figure. Cheers, Tom From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 9 20:29:37 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001301c40647$88a22970$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > > Are you suggesting that a platter, weighting several kilograms, spinning > > at something like 3600 rpm, suddenly can change spin direction at a > > millisecond notice? > > This would be ummm interesting if you could make it happen... :-) Millisecond notice? I'll go you one better. Quantum Mechanics tells us that the platter is simultaneously spinning both forward AND backward, and motionless, until YOU had to go and open up the cover and make it assume a given state ;) Jay From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Mar 9 20:38:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <001301c40647$88a22970$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> <001301c40647$88a22970$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200403100241.VAA22395@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Quantum Mechanics tells us that the platter is simultaneously > spinning both forward AND backward, and motionless, until YOU had to > go and open up the cover and make it assume a given state ;) Well...until _something_ causes wavefunction collapse. It's not clear when wavefunction collapse happens, though there are some good rules of thumb; the closest I've seen to a theory including a mathematical specification of when to collapse is Evan Walker's _The Physics Of Consciousness_ (a book I highly recommend, by the by - his theory, for all that it has weak spots (and what theory hasn't?) is also one of the best cases I've seen of explaining more than it sets out to, including such trivia as why so many creatures sleep). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Mar 9 20:58:37 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: A good day at the Auction. References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> Message-ID: <003a01c4064b$957df3f0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> great stash! congrats! ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ponsford" To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: A good day at the Auction. > Hi All, > > Well it was a good day for classic stuff at the U of A auction today. > For a whopping $2.50 i got: > > A HP 9000 200 (double stack), have not looked inside yet. powers on but I need > to make a cable for a serial console. > A HP 7673 Controller! Whatever that is (same kind of case as the 9000 200) > A HP external storage case w/HDD a floppy with HP1B connector > A HP 9000 Apollo series 400, boots fine but has no HDD. > > AND a box of around hundred and fifty 5 1/4 floppies that included: > > 1 complete set of AT&T Unix PC V.3.0 (32 disks) and probably 3-4 more "broken" > sets that are missing a few disks. > > I wanna kick myself for passing on the AT&T 7300 in pristine condition about > two months ago for about $5.00 concluding I'd never find the Unix to go with it. > > Go figure. > > Cheers, > > Tom > > > From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Mar 9 21:24:37 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: c64 guru: save a file again In-Reply-To: from Ron Hudson at "Mar 9, 4 02:49:02 pm" Message-ID: <200403100324.TAA13394@floodgap.com> > It seems I can't save a file twice with the same name > > ... write basic program ... > save "program",8 > ... edit basic program ... > save "program",8 > (light on floppy blinks - error ) This is a "feature" of Commodore DOS (the error is 63, FILE EXISTS, 00, 00). You can handle this in two ways. 1. Save-with-replace: SAVE"@0:PROGRAM",8 This has a notorious bug on 1541 disk drives that tends to strike when the disk is very near capacity, since both copies of the program must exist on the disk at once. A safer approach is to 2. Scratch first, save later. OPEN15,8,15,"S0:PROGRAM":CLOSE15 SAVE"PROGRAM",8 This is the safest approach as it has the least chance to go berserk unseen. Many disk wedges like Epyx FastLoad and DOS WEDGE 5.1 reduce the OPEN statement to @S0:PROGRAM or >S0:PROGRAM or some such variant. Alternatively, have a block in your program like this: 63998 END 63999 OPEN15,8,15,"S0:PROGRAM":CLOSE15:SAVE"PROGRAM",8 then RUN 63999 whenever you want to save-and-replace. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Backup not found. Abort, Retry, Vomit, Panic, Write Resume File? ----------- From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 9 21:28:37 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... References: <0403100221.AA13427@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <001f01c4064f$c69baa50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > In telephony applications a T1 is split into 24 channels true, but only sortof. There are clear channel T1's which have no channels at all. > each carrying a phone > call. Totally false. You're describing a PRI delivered over a T1, not a T1. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 9 22:25:25 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: c64 guru: save a file again In-Reply-To: <200403100324.TAA13394@floodgap.com> Message-ID: Thanks! I'll try that. On Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 07:24 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> It seems I can't save a file twice with the same name >> >> ... write basic program ... >> save "program",8 >> ... edit basic program ... >> save "program",8 >> (light on floppy blinks - error ) > > This is a "feature" of Commodore DOS (the error is 63, FILE EXISTS, > 00, 00). > You can handle this in two ways. > > 1. Save-with-replace: > > SAVE"@0:PROGRAM",8 > > This has a notorious bug on 1541 disk drives that tends to strike when > the disk is very near capacity, since both copies of the program must > exist on the disk at once. A safer approach is to > > 2. Scratch first, save later. > > OPEN15,8,15,"S0:PROGRAM":CLOSE15 > SAVE"PROGRAM",8 > > This is the safest approach as it has the least chance to go berserk > unseen. > > Many disk wedges like Epyx FastLoad and DOS WEDGE 5.1 reduce the OPEN > statement to @S0:PROGRAM or >S0:PROGRAM or some such variant. > Alternatively, > have a block in your program like this: > > 63998 END > 63999 OPEN15,8,15,"S0:PROGRAM":CLOSE15:SAVE"PROGRAM",8 > > then RUN 63999 whenever you want to save-and-replace. > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Backup not found. Abort, Retry, Vomit, Panic, Write Resume File? > ----------- > From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Mar 9 22:26:23 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:01 2005 Subject: VAXStation disk question Message-ID: O Gurus assembled - hear my story: Was at Mike Quinn's in the Area of the Bay on Saturday after a nice visit to Sellam's ..... um.... place of business. ;} Found a forlorn VAXStation 3100 M38 upside down in a stack of PCs, and bought same for about twice the going rate. Of course, that amount of money would still not get one a decent burrito, so I didn't pay much. Getting it home and hooked up, it goes thru the usual VAXStation boot sequence ending in the >>> chevron prompt. Attempting to boot, >>> b (ret) produces a 1 minute wait and returns 40 NOSUCHDEV 06 HLT INST PC=00000C66 the first time after power-up and 40 NOSUCHDEV 84 FAIL subsequently to [back-panel button] resetting and re-attempting a boot. This was a DEC-owned machine, it has a DEC property/asset tag on it, and the drive is a DEC RZ23-E (Connor). If it's running, it's the damn quietest HD I've ever encountered. The drive is getting it's proper voltages, +5 and +12, and upon power up the faintest of 'clicks' can be heard within it (parking solenoid??) and then nothing. I have tried the judicious use of repetitive impulse torque normal to the plane of rotation of the platters (I held it and banged a corner with the handle of a screwdriver) in case the spindle was perhaps stuck. SO: I'd love to know what's on this HD, but it's possible to also form the assumption that it has gone to be with it's Honorable Ancestors and will not return this way again. Any thoughts / ideas? Thanking Y'all in advance: Cheers John From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 9 23:06:12 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: VAXStation disk question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Getting it home and hooked up, it goes thru the usual VAXStation boot >sequence ending in the >>> chevron prompt. > > Attempting to boot, >>> b (ret) > > produces a 1 minute wait and returns > >40 NOSUCHDEV >06 HLT INST > PC=00000C66 > >the first time after power-up and > >40 NOSUCHDEV >84 FAIL Not a real guru, but: you might try SHO DEV at the chevron. My 4000VLC could be set to boot from a device (like the ethernet) that's not working, and I'm not so sure it would necessarily spin the hard drive if it wasn't trying to boot from it. SHO DEV seems to do that, though, as well as telling whether the drive electronics are correctly describing it over the SCSI cable, SCSI is working, etc. Is that available on a 3100? Gurus? Anyone there? -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 9 23:05:16 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: VAXStation disk question In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Mar 09, 2004 11:26:23 PM Message-ID: <200403100505.i2A55GRS017195@onyx.spiritone.com> > This was a DEC-owned machine, it has a DEC property/asset tag on it, and > the drive is a DEC RZ23-E (Connor). If it's running, it's the damn > SO: I'd love to know what's on this HD, but it's possible to also form > the assumption that it has gone to be with it's Honorable Ancestors and > will not return this way again. If it's an RZ23 the VAXstation most likely booted off of a cluster disk, and used the RZ23 as a swap disk. The RZ23 is only about 100MB. Find yourself a RZ25 or RZ26 and replace it. If you're going to be running V7.2 or later, any 1GB SCSI HD should work nicely as the boot disk. Zane From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Mar 9 23:29:01 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: TelePad Stylus Needed Message-ID: <20040309.212901.820.6.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Does anyone here know where I can get a stylus for this machine? It's a '486 slate pc by TelePad. I'm hoping that they used a compatible stylus from like maybe a Kurta pad, or something similar. The TelePad company itself is long gone . . . . Thanks! Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 9 15:59:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: New-in-Box Atari 825 printers Message-ID: Nothing terribly special, but this fellow contacted me this morning about a lot of Atari 825 printers new-in-the-box that he came upon. He's posted one on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=456 For you Atari fans, this would be a good opportunity to get a brand new 825 printer at a not-bad price ($20). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Mar 9 23:59:22 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: VAXStation disk question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Mark Tapley wrote: > Not a real guru, but: you might try SHO DEV at the chevron. My > 4000VLC could be set to boot from a device O my yes but you *are* The Guru! That's exactly what was needed - 'SHO DEV' at the chevron spun up the poor unoffending disk that Neanderthal Sysop was so recently beating on. And then I could: >>> SHO BOOT DKA300 but of course >>>B DKA300: 42 NOSUCHFILE 84 FAIL because there's no OS, it's most likely just a swap device as Zane points out below. But I SET BOOT DKA300 so at least >>>B tries to boot from the RZ23, which naturally tells me to go away. So now I'll plug a SCSI CDROM into it and give it a real OS and then maybe I can still see if there's anything mind-altering on the drive Anyway, if nothing else I have another known good working base system, should something Permanent happen to my other 3100. Plus I learned various cool things in the process. Tremendous T-H-A-N-X to Y'All!! Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 10 00:09:41 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: New-in-Box Atari 825 printers References: Message-ID: <005501c40666$46e52630$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:59 PM Subject: New-in-Box Atari 825 printers > > Nothing terribly special, but this fellow contacted me this morning about > a lot of Atari 825 printers new-in-the-box that he came upon. He's posted > one on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=456 > > For you Atari fans, this would be a good opportunity to get a brand new > 825 printer at a not-bad price ($20). > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/400800/825/825.html Interesting story about that printer. From kelly at fergason.com Tue Mar 9 20:50:39 2004 From: kelly at fergason.com (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: c64 guru: save a file again In-Reply-To: <4976.65.123.179.145.1078876010.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <4976.65.123.179.145.1078876010.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <404E827F.4070601@fergason.com> Not exactly correct. save "@0:program",8 the @ is save with replace. look for all sorts of info on the save-with-replace bug, if so inclined. its supposed to be safe if you use it with the @0, because the bug is related to having multiple drives (or so I understand). Kelly ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: >Just checked the owner's book and it doesn't mention that it overwrites. >Probably have to number your programs, such as PROG1, PROG2, etc. When >finished, just save as PROG. > >Gary Hildebrand > > > > > >>It seems I can't save a file twice with the same name >> >>... write basic program ... >> >>save "program",8 >> >>... edit basic program ... >> >>save "program",8 >>(light on floppy blinks - error ) >> >>verify "program",8 >>wont verify >> >>... power cycle ... >> >>load "program",8 >> >>... view program ... it's the old program, not the edited program. >> >>this behaviour noted on both a read c64sx (before it croaked) and on >>the VICE emulator. >> >>I can't seem to see anything in the manual about it.. and also no >>command to delete a file. >> >> >> >> > > > > From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Mar 9 20:55:27 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: A good day at the Auction. In-Reply-To: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040309215505.025245c0@mail.n.ml.org> Well, at least your ass won't get sued by SCO =) -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:26 PM 3/9/2004, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Well it was a good day for classic stuff at the U of A auction today. >For a whopping $2.50 i got: > >A HP 9000 200 (double stack), have not looked inside yet. powers on but I >need to make a cable for a serial console. >A HP 7673 Controller! Whatever that is (same kind of case as the 9000 200) >A HP external storage case w/HDD a floppy with HP1B connector >A HP 9000 Apollo series 400, boots fine but has no HDD. > >AND a box of around hundred and fifty 5 1/4 floppies that included: > >1 complete set of AT&T Unix PC V.3.0 (32 disks) and probably 3-4 more >"broken" sets that are missing a few disks. > >I wanna kick myself for passing on the AT&T 7300 in pristine condition >about two months ago for about $5.00 concluding I'd never find the Unix to >go with it. > >Go figure. > >Cheers, > >Tom ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 10 03:35:06 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.2 sources et al... In-Reply-To: <0403100221.AA13427@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Qbus VAX, have connectors for a T1 line on them? Not being very These are multi-line connections, which basically means that on the outside, you connect the CSU/DSU of the telco T1 line to the card. Within the card, that T1 (1,544Mbps total, in 24 channels of 64Kbps) connection gets split into these 24 separate channels- either as an ISDN PRI line (1xD and 23xB) or as a multiplexed digital line carrying 24 individual phone line channels. This basically saves you and the telco from having to find 24 "good" copper pairs. The card then handles the "lines" as 24 phone lines, for voice, fax, whatever (in the multiplex case; its a lil different in the ISDN case.) > In telephony applications a T1 is split into 24 channels each carrying a phone > call. When, however, someone speaks about T1 as a dedicated line for Inet, a > device called a CSU/DSU takes the entire T1 payload (all 24 channels together) > and turns it into an EIA-422 or V.35 synchronous serial stream that a router > then has to deal with. No. A T1 *is* a digital peer-to-peer connection between the CO (telco) and your location. The line runs at 1,544Mbps, and is terminated by a CSU/DSU at both ends. This is just a digital bit stream. Depending on HOW the line is used, things change. In the U.S., the most common use was to either multiplex 24 digitized (using straight PCM) analog phone lines into a single copper line.. easier for transportation, saved on copper lines (read: cost and copperline real estate on the poles)and it was more immune to all sorts of interference. In this scenario, the CO simply takes 24 analog lines, PCM's these into 24 digital bit streams (at 56 or 64Kbps) and TDM's these onto the T1 bit stream as defined above. No magic, just TDM timeslots. On the far (customer) end, the CSU output was connected to a channel bank, which un-TDM's the channels, and converts them back to analog ports, so you end up with 24 RJ11 jacks again. This was used with older modem banks (Jay probably remembers the stacks of those we used to have ;-) and older PBX'es. Also, if the customer equipment could deal with multiplexed T1 by itself, you could skip the channel bank, and plug in the output of the CSU straight into the device, and it would do the de-muxing itself. Many recent versions of these even had the CSU built in, so you could just simply plug in the RJ12 from the telco :) We ISP's *loved* this, as you got one wire from the wall punch panel into the modem bank, with not much left to break... For example, I still have Cisco 3640's running with such a setup: they get fed the R12 from the wall, demodulate the signal ("CSU"), un-TDM it, and chop it into 24 digital phone channels. These then get fed to digital modem boards, and the router software does teh rest. Nice and clean, no analog stuff anymore, pure digital connection. For ISDN connections (which werent used much in the U.S.), things are similar: the line is the same, as is the CSU. The DSU is, too, because U.S. ISDN PRI service (well, most of em *grin*) are magically defined as having 23 data channels ("lines") and one signalling channels, for a total of 24 again. So.. after we feed the signal through the CSU and DSU, we again get 24 digital bitstreams. Channels 0 to 22 are the B (data) channels, and channel 23 is the signalling (D) channel. The rest is software. On most T1 controllers, you can indeed tell it to use "digital multiplexed" or "isdn pri" mode of operation :) So... this is "channelized service", since the stuff in the CO does something channels. If you want to just take the raw pipe (the digital bit stream at 1,544Mbps) you get *transparent* service, which is simple: the DSU at the CO defined two channels - channel 0 for monitoring, at 16Kbps, and channel 1 for data at 1,536Mbps. Some ISP's didnt do the monitoring channel, which gave you an extra 16Kbps... these were called "managed" and "unmanaged" lines. With transparent service, you just get the bit pipe. This obviously is used by the ISP's to deliver bandwidth to customers for their data connections, and what is seen by most as ".. a T1". Oh. yeah, and then there is Fractional T1. You guessed it.. rather than allocating a full pipe, the DSU's get programmed to only allocate as many channels as are needed/requested by the customer. If I wanted a 256Kbps line, they would program the DSU to put me on time slots A, B, C and D (4x64). These were usually larger DSU's, which could handle up to 8 serial links to be multiplexed over the T1 sigal. Later, most of this was done within the routers. The above goes for E1's too, which are 32-channel connections used outside of the U.S. These run at 2,048Mbps, and have the same options as the T1's above. E1's are usually based on fiber carriers, though, and not the (largely analog in nature) T1/T3 carriers. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 10 03:39:39 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: VAXStation disk question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, John Lawson wrote: > Attempting to boot, >>> b (ret) > > produces a 1 minute wait and returns > > 40 NOSUCHDEV > 06 HLT INST > PC=00000C66 > > the first time after power-up and > > 40 NOSUCHDEV > 84 FAIL OK. This means that it tried, but could not find or use the device that was defined as "default boot device" in the NVRAM. > This was a DEC-owned machine, it has a DEC property/asset tag on it, and > the drive is a DEC RZ23-E (Connor). If it's running, it's the damn > quietest HD I've ever encountered. The drive is getting it's proper > voltages, +5 and +12, and upon power up the faintest of 'clicks' can be > heard within it (parking solenoid??) and then nothing. OK, that sounds like an RZ23 allright. Try to see what is in there by doing a >>> show dev at the prompt. This will give you a list of disks, tapes, and whatnot. Assuming DEC followed its own config rules, the RZ23 is at SCSI ID#3, meaning it will show up as DKA3: in that list. You can (or, should be able to) boot it with >>> boot dka3: if it still has a valid system on it. If not, you need to get together with someone who know how to install or net-install it :) Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 10 05:37:30 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: New-in-Box Atari 825 printers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 09 March 2004 22:00 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: New-in-Box Atari 825 printers > > > Nothing terribly special, but this fellow contacted me this > morning about a lot of Atari 825 printers new-in-the-box that > he came upon. He's posted one on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=456 > > For you Atari fans, this would be a good opportunity to get a > brand new > 825 printer at a not-bad price ($20). That would be a nice thing to have in the museum, but shipping from the US to the UK would be prohibitively expensive for the jobless, ie me. Cheers w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 10 06:18:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: A good day at the Auction. In-Reply-To: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040310071830.0085eb70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:26 PM 3/9/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Well it was a good day for classic stuff at the U of A auction today. >For a whopping $2.50 i got: > >A HP 9000 200 (double stack), have not looked inside yet. powers on but I need >to make a cable for a serial console. They don't make a double stack HP 9000 200. It's probably a 9000 300. All the 300 series are simply marked as 9000 300 but there's some big differences. The actual model number is usually shown instead the grill on the back that covers the power supply. You may be able to see it without removing the grill but there's only two screws holding the grill in place. Or pull the CPU card and tell me what kind and speed the CPU is and I'll tell you what model it is. You might as well see what cards are in it at the sme time. >A HP 7673 Controller! Whatever that is (same kind of case as the 9000 200) Hmmm. Never heard of a 7673 but found this on the net . It says that it's an Autosampler. Probably not very usefull to you but it might be worth good money to a reseller or on E-bay. >A HP external storage case w/HDD a floppy with HP1B connector With a little luck, it has software for the 9000 300. Nice finds! Joe >A HP 9000 Apollo series 400, boots fine but has no HDD. > >AND a box of around hundred and fifty 5 1/4 floppies that included: > >1 complete set of AT&T Unix PC V.3.0 (32 disks) and probably 3-4 more "broken" >sets that are missing a few disks. > >I wanna kick myself for passing on the AT&T 7300 in pristine condition about >two months ago for about $5.00 concluding I'd never find the Unix to go with it. > >Go figure. > >Cheers, > >Tom > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Mar 10 07:32:59 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: VAXStation disk question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403100831656.SM01356@bobdev> > Assuming DEC followed its own config rules, the RZ23 is at SCSI ID#3, meaning it will show up as DKA3: in that list. You can (or, should be able to) boot it with >>> boot dka3: Wouldn't SCSI ID 3 show up as DKA300:? And you'd want to do a >>> boot DKA300: Anyway, you should just follow whatever the "SHOW DEV" command shows you for disks. It's probably that the default stored in the NVRAM is not correct (maybe a drive was removed), never set, or the NVRAM is invalid. - Bob From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Mar 10 07:38:27 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Alpha & HP on eBay UK Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040310133048.03ac3f40@albert> Spotted these on my wanderings. They are physically too big for me to bid on, but since we have talk of these on here, thought I'd mention them as they might be a bargain for someone, depending how the bidding goes. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3083732068&category=1484 Alpha 4100 + Raid Disk Arrays + Server Rack Located in London 6 days to go, currently sat at ?1.00 with no reserve. Also of interest: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3082607371&category=176 HP Storage Rack Unit -0055 with 36 various 9.1Gb drives. 1 day left, no bids, ?1.00 reserve not met. From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 08:11:23 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Alpha & HP on eBay UK In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040310133048.03ac3f40@albert> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040310133048.03ac3f40@albert> Message-ID: <200403101411.23731.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 10 March 2004 13:38, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > Spotted these on my wanderings. They are physically too big for me to > bid on, but since we have talk of these on here, thought I'd mention > them as they might be a bargain for someone, depending how the bidding > goes. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3083732068&category >=1484 Alpha 4100 + Raid Disk Arrays + Server Rack > Located in London > > 6 days to go, currently sat at ?1.00 with no reserve. > > > Also of interest: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3082607371&category >=176 HP Storage Rack Unit -0055 > with 36 various 9.1Gb drives. > 1 day left, no bids, ?1.00 reserve not met. Yep, I saw it last night. *drool* alex/melt From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Mar 10 08:12:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? References: <16461.57540.491360.757029@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <001b01c405fb$0e20b050$5b01a8c0@athlon> <20040309190834.GA20079@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16463.8792.43795.460211@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:22:10PM -0000, Antonio Carlini Ethan> wrote: >> I guess I could use thickwire too (given a big enough room) but I >> only have one vampire tap with H4000, no cable and no tools to do >> the actual attachment (although I do have one of those H4000 test >> devices). With one attachment I'm not sure I can really call it a >> network :-) Ethan> I have entertained thoughts of a Thickwire segment on my home Ethan> network. I have a couple of vampire taps, at least one Ethan> intrusive transceiver (N connectors rather than the tap), but Ethan> no cable. I think I would also need to at least borrow one of Ethan> the proper step drills of the day unless there's a workable Ethan> kludge I could do. >From what I remember, the drill used to install the tap is a simple drill, not a step dril. Quite possibly an awl might work. You should be able to use a conventional 50 ohm coax of roughly the right diameter -- say, RG-8 or thereabouts. The precise specs are in the Ethernet standard. But I expect you could just shim the vampire clamp a bit if the cable is slightly undersized. Just place the transceivers at multiples of 2.5 meters apart just as if you had stripes on the cable. --- Meanwhile, returning to the original topic: I just found some Ethernet AUI connectors, including right angle ones -- with proper slide lock hardware and all -- in the Digikey catalog. They are made by AMP, price quantity one around $9.50 as I recall. Depending on how much you're willing to spend, that could be an option. Digikey is a US company but I assume they'd ship to the UK. Or you could search their catalog for the connector and then find a UK purveyor of that product. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 10 08:17:07 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Good experience (ESR Meter) Message-ID: <008601c406aa$5e98dda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Just wanted to pass this on to the list, as when I posted about it earlier several folks replied that they had, or wanted an ESR meter for working on their classic computers. One of the more popular (and for good reason) ESR meters is the Dick Smith one. I believe the Dick Smith one was an implementation of an original design by Bob Parker. While the Dick Smith one is a great meter, EVB electronics partnered up with Bob Parker and came up with a new unit. This one has exactly the same specs as the Dick Smith unit, but a few really nice improvements. Much better display quality (bigger brighter numbers) More of a professional, polished looking case and probes Much better protection from charged caps Automatic power off after 3 minutes of inactivity (instead of 2) More to the point, the Dick Smith meter is 50-60 USD in kit form, and 75 to 110 USD assembled (seems to average about 97). But you need a calibrated DC supply to calibrate the unit once built. The EVB unit comes preassembled, calibrated, with leads, for $87 USD including shipping. For roughly the same bucks as the Dick Smith one, you get a slightly better unit (same design). More to the point, two days after I got my EVB unit, I got an email from the owner at EVB. He just wanted to make sure I got my unit, that it worked correctly, and that I was satisfied. Turns out there was a minor problem with my unit, and he took a genuine interest in the problem and made it right (was just a mechanical adjustment to the bananna plug sockets). Most impressive in this day & age, so I wanted to pass on my experience and recommendation. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 08:26:32 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Vinegar and Computer guts... References: <404D3B70.4090007@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <404F2598.B0FD0D87@comcast.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > > > >Seriously, how about Febreeze? And what's it smell like? > > Febreze contains a really stinky soapy flowery smellifying agent, > as far as I'm concerned I'd rather smell cat pee than these cheap > laundry stenches. (How or WHY one does this in a product that > 'removes smells' is beyond me.) > > Go to a pet store and get NATURE'S MIRACLE or similar product. > This stuff will descent a skunk and has NO ODOR. It's basically > water with some enzymes so mild you could probably drink it. > > It won't kill mildew however, but it de-stinks pretty much anything. I was talking to a friend or mine, who manages a large pet shop here in CT... Seems Nature's Miracle isn't what it used to be. Apparently (within the past year or so) the company selling it had a disagreement with the manufacturer. So the manufacturer told Nature's Miracle to get lost. Now Nature's Miracle uses a different (and not as effective?) formula; and the manufacturer started selling the original recipe under a different name. Don't recall what it is at the moment, though... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 10 08:32:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Alpha & HP on eBay UK In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040310133048.03ac3f40@albert> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob O'Donnell > Sent: 10 March 2004 13:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Alpha & HP on eBay UK > > > Spotted these on my wanderings. They are physically too big > for me to bid on, but since we have talk of these on here, > thought I'd mention them as they might be a bargain for > someone, depending how the bidding goes. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=308373206 > 8&category=1484 > Alpha 4100 + Raid Disk Arrays + Server Rack Located in London Hehe, and there's me trying to run a webserver on an Alpha 3000-300lx :) Cheers w From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 08:47:24 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] KZQSA tech docs needed Message-ID: <200403101447.24696.lists@microvax.org> Hi guys - as per title really. Does anyone have a copy of any documentation pertaining to the KZQSA QBUS SCSI adaptor local? I've followed a couple of trails and hit dead ends. I'm looking to do a bit of dev with the card... TIA alex/melt From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 09:12:20 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] HSD05 formatting Message-ID: <200403101512.20231.lists@microvax.org> Hi again guys :) I've got myself a storageworks shelf (with floor-stand hardware and the smoked doors :D ) that has 3 SBBs and a HSD05 DSSI<->SCSI unit. It's hooked up to my 4000/200 with a KFQSA MSCP DSSI card, and i've set it up so that I can SET HOST/DUP/UQSSP/DISK 0 into the HSD05 and run all the setup utils and toys there. However, I don't know how to partition these disks under NetBSD - i've had a bit of a fiddle with disklabel but quite frankly I get a bit lost, and most of the time disklabel locks up on me anyway - I suspect this is because it cannot know the true geometry of the disk it is talking to, but that's just a supposition... The three disks I have appear to the VAX firmware as DIS610, DUA620 and DUA630 - all appearing as RF72 disks, and the VAX is netbooting NetBSD 1.5.2. Can anyone explain to me how I can get these babies formatted so I can eventually install NetBSD on them? TIA alex/melt From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 10:13:16 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Quick DECrepeater question In-Reply-To: <2CAE432E-72A5-11D8-B1DE-000502B6180A@mindspring.com> References: <2CAE432E-72A5-11D8-B1DE-000502B6180A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <200403101613.16179.lists@microvax.org> Hey guys, a quick question whilst i'm sat at my lists email address: Can anyone explain the difference between a DECrepeater 90T and a 90T+ ? thanks as always alex/melt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 10 10:53:14 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Quick DECrepeater question In-Reply-To: <200403101613.16179.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 10 March 2004 16:13 > To: The Rescue List > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Quick DECrepeater question > > Hey guys, a quick question whilst i'm sat at my lists email address: > > Can anyone explain the difference between a DECrepeater 90T > and a 90T+ ? Isn't the t+ capable of being managed with the DEChub90 management module? Cheers w From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 10 10:51:27 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: AUI cables in UK? In-Reply-To: <20040309190834.GA20079@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:22:10PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I guess I could use thickwire too (given a big enough room) but I > > only have one vampire tap with H4000, no cable and no tools > > to do the actual attachment (although I do have one of those H4000 > > test devices). With one attachment I'm not sure I can really call it > > a network :-) > > I have entertained thoughts of a Thickwire segment on my home network. I > have a couple of vampire taps, at least one intrusive transceiver > (N connectors rather than the tap), but no cable. I think I would also > need to at least borrow one of the proper step drills of the day unless > there's a workable kludge I could do. > > It seems like the perfect thing to hook my Unibus gear to. I have the cable, the tape and whatnot, just not the time to do it. Still, it *would* be the ideal thing for the Unibus boxes I just aquired.. :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 11:05:14 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Quick DECrepeater question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403101705.14835.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 10 March 2004 16:53, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > > Sent: 10 March 2004 16:13 > > To: The Rescue List > > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Quick DECrepeater question > > > > Hey guys, a quick question whilst i'm sat at my lists email address: > > > > Can anyone explain the difference between a DECrepeater 90T > > and a 90T+ ? > > Isn't the t+ capable of being managed with the DEChub90 management > module? I thought they both were, but I might well be talking out of my hat as I don't have the management module (DECbridge 90?)! The only difference i'm aware of is that the 90t will only be able to utilise UTP cables, whereas a 90t+with its metal ports can properly work with STP. alex/melt From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 10 12:06:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Good experience (ESR Meter) In-Reply-To: <008601c406aa$5e98dda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040310130634.0079c820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Where did you get your's at? Joe At 08:17 AM 3/10/04 -0600, you wrote: >Just wanted to pass this on to the list, as when I posted about it earlier >several folks replied that they had, or wanted an ESR meter for working on >their classic computers. > >One of the more popular (and for good reason) ESR meters is the Dick Smith >one. I believe the Dick Smith one was an implementation of an original >design by Bob Parker. > >While the Dick Smith one is a great meter, EVB electronics partnered up with >Bob Parker and came up with a new unit. This one has exactly the same specs >as the Dick Smith unit, but a few really nice improvements. > >Much better display quality (bigger brighter numbers) >More of a professional, polished looking case and probes >Much better protection from charged caps >Automatic power off after 3 minutes of inactivity (instead of 2) > >More to the point, the Dick Smith meter is 50-60 USD in kit form, and 75 to >110 USD assembled (seems to average about 97). But you need a calibrated DC >supply to calibrate the unit once built. > >The EVB unit comes preassembled, calibrated, with leads, for $87 USD >including shipping. For roughly the same bucks as the Dick Smith one, you >get a slightly better unit (same design). > >More to the point, two days after I got my EVB unit, I got an email from the >owner at EVB. He just wanted to make sure I got my unit, that it worked >correctly, and that I was satisfied. Turns out there was a minor problem >with my unit, and he took a genuine interest in the problem and made it >right (was just a mechanical adjustment to the bananna plug sockets). > >Most impressive in this day & age, so I wanted to pass on my experience and >recommendation. > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 10 12:15:35 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Good experience (ESR Meter) References: <3.0.6.32.20040310130634.0079c820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <015001c406cb$aec09180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Joe wrote... > Where did you get your's at? Why EVB of course, see: http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm A great resource by Bob Parker, with links to comparisons of competing units, technology discussion, etc. is at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm The ONLY negative I had with the EVB experience is, you have to pay by either Western Union, or by Moneygram. I went the Moneygram route. Kind of a pain, he needs to accept paypal. But I wound up getting a better unit, cheaper. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 10 13:35:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Paging John Allain... References: Message-ID: <012d01c406d6$d1ad9ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ...are you getting my messages? Caught in the spam filter. more to you offline... From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 10 15:03:51 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: Quick DECrepeater question In-Reply-To: <200403101705.14835.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, meltie wrote: > I thought they both were, but I might well be talking out of my hat as I > don't have the management module (DECbridge 90?)! Indeed. > The only difference i'm aware of is that the 90t will only be able to > utilise UTP cables, whereas a 90t+with its metal ports can properly work > with STP. This is correct, the + supports STP. --f From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 10 18:04:16 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: contolling static Message-ID: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch anything. Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAT60ALPrIaE/xBZARAh4WAKDWiT/OJwDc85ftZQvNJM/SKhSAcgCfQnx1 MoYPs5M0kN9zeT+IUsT/nzs= =9D+o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 10 18:24:45 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: contolling static Message-ID: <200403110024.QAA06322@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Mike > Hi Don't wear shoes. Humidify the air. Get an ion generator. Dwight >Hash: SHA1 > >I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. >Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch >anything. > >Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > >- -- >Ottawa, Canada > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Mar 10 18:27:16 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: contolling static In-Reply-To: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <404FB263.5040203@atarimuseum.com> A humidifier someplace away from your equipment room will help, its still cold, especially up where you are, so dry air means a lot of static build up. Curt Mike wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. >Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch >anything. > >Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > >- -- >Ottawa, Canada > >Collector of vintage computers >http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > >iD8DBQFAT60ALPrIaE/xBZARAh4WAKDWiT/OJwDc85ftZQvNJM/SKhSAcgCfQnx1 >MoYPs5M0kN9zeT+IUsT/nzs= >=9D+o >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 10 11:00:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: contolling static In-Reply-To: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Mike wrote: > I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. > Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch > anything. > > Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? Try installing an anti-static mat at the entrance to your basement. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Mar 10 18:50:20 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: contolling static References: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <404FB263.5040203@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <001601c40702$e616cf00$0200a8c0@look.ca> > > > >Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > > > >- -- > >Ottawa, Canada > > The problem isn't moisture, most basements have enough of that especially if you used new wood for studs. The laminate flooring is causing the problem. There are some kinds that have anti-static built into them but not yours, obviously. If the problem is around your stored computers, I would suggest an anti-static mat with a ground cord. For the price you could get a few and place them all around your work area. I'm sure someone here could figure out how to ground the whole floor since it is now, more or less, monolithic. Hope this helps. BM From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Mar 10 18:51:14 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:02 2005 Subject: contolling static References: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <001901c40703$06882ae0$0200a8c0@look.ca> Sorry, forgot the url: http://www.hobbytron.net/product836.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: contolling static > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. > Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch > anything. > > Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > > - -- > Ottawa, Canada > > Collector of vintage computers > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFAT60ALPrIaE/xBZARAh4WAKDWiT/OJwDc85ftZQvNJM/SKhSAcgCfQnx1 > MoYPs5M0kN9zeT+IUsT/nzs= > =9D+o > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- http://www.hobbytron.net/product836.html url for mats. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 10 19:07:51 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: contolling static Message-ID: <200403110107.RAA06367@clulw009.amd.com> Hi One other thought. Take some liquid dish soap and delute a couple of spoons full into a bucket. Mop the floor with this, without rinsing ( just let it dry ). This should also help some. Dwight >From: "Brian Mahoney" > >> > >> >Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? >> > >> >- -- >> >Ottawa, Canada >> > > >The problem isn't moisture, most basements have enough of that especially if >you used new wood for studs. The laminate flooring is causing the problem. >There are some kinds that have anti-static built into them but not yours, >obviously. >If the problem is around your stored computers, I would suggest an >anti-static mat with a ground cord. For the price you could get a few and >place them all around your work area. I'm sure someone here could figure out >how to ground the whole floor since it is now, more or less, monolithic. >Hope this helps. > >BM > > From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 10 20:53:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: contolling static In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Try installing an anti-static mat at the entrance to your basement. I have 3M antistatic mats available...one is the kind you use on carpet - a large plastic job with spikes to grip the carpet. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 10 21:27:19 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: contolling static References: Message-ID: <404FDC97.4030001@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Try installing an anti-static mat at the entrance to your basement. A humidifier does wonders if you are in a dry area. Ben. From auringer at tds.net Thu Mar 11 05:00:52 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: contolling static In-Reply-To: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <405046E4.1080405@tds.net> Mike wrote: >I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. >Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch >anything. > >Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > > Mike, If your flooring is compatible with it, I would consider conductive ESD floor wax and wearing a conductive heal strap. This combination is often used in static sensitive production areas. Jon From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Mar 11 09:20:17 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX won't recognize TQK70 Message-ID: <20040311152016.GA301@rhiannon.rddavis.org> After attaching an external power supply to my TK70 (since I don't have the sled with connectors to the VAX's power supply, and didn't know where to solder power cables to from inside the empty bay), and installing the TQK70 into a Qbus slot, I can't get the system to even recognize the TQK70. Nothing lights up on thee TK70, although both LEDs on the TQK70 are lit. The cable is connected the right way. The CSR on the TQK70 is set to 774500, and the jumpers are connecting the bottom two of the three rows of pins on the drive-select jumpers. I've tried inserting the TQK70 into various slots (including upper and lower, since I understand that grant continuation follows a serpentine pattern. When I do a show qbus command, the TQK70 doesn't show up: >>> sh qbus -20000200 (761000) = 0000 IDV11A -20000202 (761002) = 807F -20000204 (761004) = 0000 -20000206 (761006) = F9FD -200002AC (761254) = 00C0 DTCN5 -200002AE (761256) = 0000 -200002B4 (761264) = 0020 DTC05 -200002B6 (761266) = 0000 -200002B8 (761270) = 0020 DTC05 -200002BA (761272) = 0000 -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 IPCR Any thoughts/ideas? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 11 09:24:10 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX wanted Message-ID: <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Anyone have a VAX 11/730 or 11/750 they might consider trading? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Mar 11 09:40:48 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: contolling static In-Reply-To: <405046E4.1080405@tds.net> References: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <405046E4.1080405@tds.net> Message-ID: <40508880.9080205@cox.net> Although it leaves a slightly tacky surface that requires more frequent cleaning, an inexpensive option would be to lightly spray Static Guard around on the floor every week or so, or even every time you sweep up. Kind of a band-aid fix, but I use it often in situations where no other good option exists to control static. It is very inexpensive and it works well enough. -Bryan > I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. > Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and > touch anything. > > Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Mar 11 09:43:54 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX wanted In-Reply-To: <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200403111043.54766.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 11 March 2004 10:24, Jay West wrote: > Anyone have a VAX 11/730 or 11/750 Yes. > they might consider trading? Sure, if you've got an 11/780. : ) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Mar 11 10:28:23 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX won't recognize TQK70 Message-ID: <0403111628.AA14851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> R. D. Davis wrote: > The CSR on the TQK70 is set to 774500 [...] > > When I do a show qbus command, the TQK70 doesn't show up: [in SHOW QBUS] Try reading the IP and SA registers with EXAMINE commands: >>>E/P/W 20001940 >>>E/P/W 20001942 If instead of numbers (values read), the console responds with a message to the effect that no device responded to the read, it means that there is something wrong with the TQK70 board. It has nothing to do with the power to the drive since the controller must respond to reads of its IP and SA registers even if there is no drive at all. Grant continuity problems also won't affect the ability to read or write registers, since the device can still act as a slave, it needs a grant only to do DMA or send an interrupt vector to the CPU. MS From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Mar 11 14:04:31 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX won't recognize TQK70 In-Reply-To: <20040311152016.GA301@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <004d01c407a4$11715ed0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > >>> sh qbus > > -20000200 (761000) = 0000 IDV11A > -20000202 (761002) = 807F > -20000204 (761004) = 0000 > -20000206 (761006) = F9FD > -200002AC (761254) = 00C0 DTCN5 > -200002AE (761256) = 0000 > -200002B4 (761264) = 0020 DTC05 > -200002B6 (761266) = 0000 > -200002B8 (761270) = 0020 DTC05 > -200002BA (761272) = 0000 > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 IPCR The IPCR is the doorbell register. I don't recall seeing the other lot on any of my machines. Do you really have a bunch of DTC05s/DTCN5s hooked up along with an IDV11A? It so happens this does not affect the TQK70 addressing, but I've never seen these devices before so I'm curious! Have you tried stripping your Qbus to just CPU, memory and the TQK70? If it does not respond then, perhaps you have a TQK70 in need of some TLC? You don't need the TK70 drive hooked up for this: in fact, you might want to try with it disconnected in case it is having some deleterious effect. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Mar 11 15:36:13 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity Message-ID: <20040311.133613.820.8.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? I have two VaxStation 3100/M76's that refuse to respond to the keyboard! After the POST, I get the usual error messages for missing disks and missing AUI adaptor. I then get the ">>>" prompt, and that's it. I'm using several LK-201's, and they all behave the same. Both VaxStations behave the same. Is there a special 'dance' that I have to do before the VaxStation responds to the keyboard? Are they really fragile, or something? Thanks! Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Mar 11 16:38:11 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX won't recognize TQK70 In-Reply-To: <0403111628.AA14851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403111628.AA14851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040311223811.GE301@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Michael Sokolov, from writings of Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 08:28:23AM -0800: > Try reading the IP and SA registers with EXAMINE commands: [...] > If instead of numbers (values read), the console responds with a > message to the effect that no device responded to the read, it means > that there is something wrong with the TQK70 board. It has nothing > to do with the power to the drive Drats... mumble, grumble... Looks like a bad TQK70: >>>e/p/w 20001940 ?66 ILLEGAL ADDRESS 20001944 >>>e/p/w 20001942 ?66 ILLEGAL ADDRESS 20001946 -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bo_dance at yahoo.com Wed Mar 10 06:54:28 2004 From: bo_dance at yahoo.com (Thomas Bodine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: c64 guru: save a file again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040310125428.33189.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Hudson wrote: > > It seems I can't save a file twice with the same name > > ... write basic program ... > > save "program",8 > > ... edit basic program ... > Try 'kill "program" ' here > save "program",8 ===== #------------------------------------------------------- # Thomas Bodine, http://www.tommythegeek.com # Computer support for small business # Skipper S/V Frimi WWP 19 #1029 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From port-vax at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 08:13:25 2004 From: port-vax at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] KZQSA tech docs needed Message-ID: <200403101413.25814.port-vax@microvax.org> Hi guys - as per title really. Does anyone have a copy of any documentation pertaining to the KZQSA QBUS SCSI adaptor local? I've followed a couple of trails and hit dead ends. I'm looking to do a bit of dev with the card... TIA alex/melt From port-vax at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 08:13:41 2004 From: port-vax at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] HSD05 formatting Message-ID: <200403101413.41315.port-vax@microvax.org> Hi again guys :) I've got myself a storageworks shelf (with floor-stand hardware and the smoked doors :D ) that has 3 SBBs and a HSD05 DSSI<->SCSI unit. It's hooked up to my 4000/200 with a KFQSA MSCP DSSI card, and i've set it up so that I can SET HOST/DUP/UQSSP/DISK 0 into the HSD05 and run all the setup utils and toys there. However, I don't know how to partition these disks under NetBSD - i've had a bit of a fiddle with disklabel but quite frankly I get a bit lost, and most of the time disklabel locks up on me anyway - I suspect this is because it cannot know the true geometry of the disk it is talking to, but that's just a supposition... The three disks I have appear to the VAX firmware as DIS610, DUA620 and DUA630 - all appearing as RF72 disks, and the VAX is netbooting NetBSD 1.5.2. Can anyone explain to me how I can get these babies formatted so I can eventually install NetBSD on them? TIA alex/melt From freddy at kotelna.sk Wed Mar 10 08:26:01 2004 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: Sun U10/U60 Creator 3D card question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040310142601.GA30820@kotol.kotelna.sk> Zane H. Healy (healyzh@aracnet.com) wrote : > I've got an Sun Ultra 10 with a nice Creator 3D card in it. > Yesterday I scored a Sun Ultra 60 with dual 300's :^) Is there any > reason I can't move the Creator 3D card from the U10 to the U60? not at all, but you rather double-check compatibility according to http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Devices/Graphics/GRAPH_TOC.html since there are more series of the Creator3D. 'njoy ;) -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From trash at microvax.org Wed Mar 10 08:47:52 2004 From: trash at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] HSD05 formatting Message-ID: <200403101447.52555.trash@microvax.org> Hi again guys :) I've got myself a storageworks shelf (with floor-stand hardware and the smoked doors :D ) that has 3 SBBs and a HSD05 DSSI<->SCSI unit. It's hooked up to my 4000/200 with a KFQSA MSCP DSSI card, and i've set it up so that I can SET HOST/DUP/UQSSP/DISK 0 into the HSD05 and run all the setup utils and toys there. However, I don't know how to partition these disks under NetBSD - i've had a bit of a fiddle with disklabel but quite frankly I get a bit lost, and most of the time disklabel locks up on me anyway - I suspect this is because it cannot know the true geometry of the disk it is talking to, but that's just a supposition... The three disks I have appear to the VAX firmware as DIS610, DUA620 and DUA630 - all appearing as RF72 disks, and the VAX is netbooting NetBSD 1.5.2. Can anyone explain to me how I can get these babies formatted so I can eventually install NetBSD on them? TIA alex/melt From tony at encore.1mp.net Wed Mar 10 12:12:50 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: HP 9845B In-Reply-To: <000901c3f019$2d06b9d0$e685fea9@arbeitstier> Message-ID: <200403101812.i2AICsV27228@echo.uptimesg.com> Sure. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Kotter > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:02 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP 9845B > > Hi, > > my company is about to through away this computer. > Do you need it ? > From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Wed Mar 10 15:00:54 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: C64 Commands/User Manual Message-ID: <20040310210054.91860.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll... does anyone have an online/pdf/html/etc version of the C64 command list or (better yet) the User Manual? I have a working C64 it good condition along with the 1541 floppy and a printer with interface. Nice setup... but could really use a PC with the old fashioned 5.25" floppy drive. *Sigh* Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Mar 11 07:57:41 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: contolling static In-Reply-To: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200403101904.16728.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040311085624.0252a3f8@mail.n.ml.org> Don't use laminate? Use rubber floor matting or ESD mats? Also, since it is a basement, watch humidity control since that can lead to static if you make the air too dry. -John Boffemmyer IV At 07:04 PM 3/10/2004, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >I recently had dry wall and laminate flooring installed in the basement. >Since then, I've been getting shocks when I walk into the room and touch >anything. > >Any ideas on reducing/controlling the static? > >- -- >Ottawa, Canada > >Collector of vintage computers >http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > >iD8DBQFAT60ALPrIaE/xBZARAh4WAKDWiT/OJwDc85ftZQvNJM/SKhSAcgCfQnx1 >MoYPs5M0kN9zeT+IUsT/nzs= >=9D+o >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 11 10:36:03 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: Paging Bob Shannon Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040311103519.03c86e18@mail.ubanproductions.com> I've been unable to communicate (via email) with Bob Shannon for quite some time now. Does anyone know what has become of him? --tom From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Mar 11 17:04:46 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX won't recognize TQK70 Message-ID: <0403112304.AA15096@ivan.Harhan.ORG> R. D. Davis wrote: > >>>e/p/w 20001940 > ?66 ILLEGAL ADDRESS 20001944 > >>>e/p/w 20001942 > ?66 ILLEGAL ADDRESS 20001946 Hmm, I wonder who is adding 4 to the error address: the machine check generation logic in the CPU or the machine check handler in the firmware... MS From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 11 17:27:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity In-Reply-To: <20040311.133613.820.8.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > jeff.kaneko@juno.com > Sent: 11 March 2004 21:36 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity > > Is there a special 'dance' that I have to do before the > VaxStation responds to the keyboard? > Are they really fragile, or something? Don't you need to set the switch known as S3 to tell the VAXstation it's now using an alternate console instead of a framebuffer? It should be on the back next (I think) to the halt button. I can't remember which direction it needs to be in, but you won't harm anything by changing it. Cheers w From chrisc at addpower.com Thu Mar 11 17:36:13 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: C64 Commands/User Manual Message-ID: Check for the manual (lovingly reproduced) at http://www.lemon64.com/manual/ Cheers, Chris Cureau Lyos Norezel cc: Sent by: Subject: C64 Commands/User Manual cctech-bounces@clas siccmp.org 03/10/2004 03:00 PM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Hey ya'll... does anyone have an online/pdf/html/etc version of the C64 command list or (better yet) the User Manual? I have a working C64 it good condition along with the 1541 floppy and a printer with interface. Nice setup... but could really use a PC with the old fashioned 5.25" floppy drive. *Sigh* Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Mar 11 18:19:27 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity Message-ID: <20040311.161928.820.11.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Yes, S3 is in the DOWN position, to use the framebuffer. The VaxStation completely ignores the LK201 that I've plugged into it. All four lites on the LK stay ON. On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:27 -0000 "Witchy" writes: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > > jeff.kaneko@juno.com > > Sent: 11 March 2004 21:36 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity > > > > Is there a special 'dance' that I have to do before the > > VaxStation responds to the keyboard? > > Are they really fragile, or something? > > Don't you need to set the switch known as S3 to tell the VAXstation > it's now > using an alternate console instead of a framebuffer? It should be > on the > back next (I think) to the halt button. I can't remember which > direction it > needs to be in, but you won't harm anything by changing it. > > Cheers > > w > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Mar 11 18:49:03 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX won't recognize TQK70 References: <20040311152016.GA301@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <405108FF.4C7A0776@compsys.to> >"R. D. Davis" wrote: > After attaching an external power supply to my TK70 (since I don't > have the sled with connectors to the VAX's power supply, and didn't > know where to solder power cables to from inside the empty bay), and > installing the TQK70 into a Qbus slot, I can't get the system to even > recognize the TQK70. Nothing lights up on thee TK70, although both > LEDs on the TQK70 are lit. The cable is connected the right way. > > The CSR on the TQK70 is set to 774500, and the jumpers are connecting > the bottom two of the three rows of pins on the drive-select jumpers. > I've tried inserting the TQK70 into various slots (including upper and > lower, since I understand that grant continuation follows a serpentine > pattern. > > When I do a show qbus command, the TQK70 doesn't show up: Jerome Fine replies: I had a similar problem with both the TK50 and a TK70 drives on a PDP-11/83 system. Initially, I also used an external power supply. After I switched back to the internal power supply, everything worked correctly. It should not be too difficult to take a tap off the power for a hard drive and split it for the TK70. I suggest you try that next. For some reason, the TK70 is especially sensitive to where the power is coming from. I power all of my disk drives on the PDP-11/83 from external (PC) power supplies and NEVER have a problem, so I did not anticipate a problem with the TK70 drive. Using the internal power from the VAX may solve your problem. Please let us know if it does!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 11 17:37:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VAX wanted In-Reply-To: <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040311183712.008d8e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> How about an 11/44A? Just found one today. Haven't even opened it up yet. Joe At 09:24 AM 3/11/04 -0600, you wrote: >Anyone have a VAX 11/730 or 11/750 they might consider trading? >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Thu Mar 11 19:05:49 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity In-Reply-To: <20040311.161928.820.11.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> References: <20040311.161928.820.11.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <40510CED.6080001@ntlworld.com> jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: >Yes, S3 is in the DOWN position, to use the framebuffer. >The VaxStation completely ignores the LK201 that >I've plugged into it. All four lites on the LK stay ON. > > > > > As you have output on the monitor the switch is set correctly, I have both a lk201 and a vs 3100/76 they both work together and all I had to do was flip the dip switch. I know this doesn't help much but I am suprised you have more than one of both and they don't work together. Can you get hold of one that definitly works and test it ?. I'f you're anywhere near London I could help. Dan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 11 19:14:26 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity In-Reply-To: <20040311.161928.820.11.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > jeff.kaneko@juno.com > Sent: 12 March 2004 00:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity > > > Yes, S3 is in the DOWN position, to use the framebuffer. > The VaxStation completely ignores the LK201 that I've plugged > into it. All four lites on the LK stay ON. > I'm puzzled now. If you're using the framebuffer then doesn't the keyboard/mouse plug into a separate breakout box or am I thinking of DECstations? I know they do on early Alphas.... My M76 is down too many stairs into the cold for me to check now; by the time I'm up and about in the morning hopefully someone else will have replied :) Cheers w From lists at microvax.org Thu Mar 11 19:25:12 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403120125.12263.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 12 March 2004 01:14, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > > jeff.kaneko@juno.com > > Sent: 12 March 2004 00:19 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity > > > > > > Yes, S3 is in the DOWN position, to use the framebuffer. > > The VaxStation completely ignores the LK201 that I've plugged > > into it. All four lites on the LK stay ON. > > I'm puzzled now. If you're using the framebuffer then doesn't the > keyboard/mouse plug into a separate breakout box or am I thinking of > DECstations? I know they do on early Alphas.... Nah, DECstation [2|3]100s have ports right there on the mainboard. Motherboard. Logic Board. Argh, what's the proper DEC-speak for it? Anyway, no breakout box there. alex/melt From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Mar 11 19:18:22 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: any electronic surplus places around Richmond, Virginia? Message-ID: <11030471.62296@webbox.com> I am heading down from Fredericksburg to Richmond Saturday and I was looking for any info from the group about surplus places. I haven't been able to find any by internet searches, so is anyone able to point out one or two? (or more... :) Thanks! best regards, Steve Thatcher From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Mar 11 19:23:22 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: grid References: <000801c3ceea$876f6700$d942fea9@y3qj80nvt2c2u8r> <404DF529.2090201@mich.com> Message-ID: <4051110A.E1016B6@msm.umr.edu> Dave Mabry wrote: > Hello Jaume, > > You can create your own with software that is on > the Yahoo site for Grid computers. It is a discussion forum for Grid > systems and I have sent up the software to that forum for creating > images of ROMs that work on the 1535 among others. Dave, I looked for "grid" "grid computing" in the yahoo cespool of discussion groups, and found that the term "grid computing" seems to apply to the type of computing used by seti, computing by people who are "networking" as in yuppies, and so forth, but out of the 400 or so hits I didn't find one that was dedicated to grid incorporated computers (laptop too early a term for these?). can you post the link or email it to me to the thing, as in http://groups.yahoo.com/?something? thanks Jim From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 11 20:11:36 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: Paging Bob Shannon References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040311103519.03c86e18@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001901c407d7$5986dc30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Bob's been having a fair amount of email trouble lately, I think he said it was his ISP, maybe his PC so his email has been spotty. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:36 AM Subject: Paging Bob Shannon > I've been unable to communicate (via email) with Bob Shannon for quite > some time now. Does anyone know what has become of him? > > --tom > > > From billdeg at degnanco.com Thu Mar 11 20:49:41 2004 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: TRS 80 Model 1 Question Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040311213700.02655340@mail.degnanco.net> Hello. I am about to take a TRS 80 under the knife to repair a keyboard. The computer works fine, 16K Model 1/ 008 (never seen one with a part number ending with "1008". The S/N 0000738) ...Anyway the E key does not work on the main keyboard, and the 2 key does not work on the number pad. I believe it's a contact problem, not a chip problem, based on what I have read. I have a schematic for TRS 80 Model III. I *assume* that the model I and III keyboards are basically the same enough to give me a clue where to isolate the circuitry for the "E" and "2" keys . Looking for a second opinion. Also if anyone on this mailing list knows details about the TRS 80 "008", I would be curious to lean more. I believe this is the last version of the TRS 80 Model 1, but other than that I have found few references to this model on the Internet from searching. bill from wilm, delaware From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Mar 11 21:11:37 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] HSD05 formatting In-Reply-To: <200403101413.41315.port-vax@microvax.org> References: <200403101413.41315.port-vax@microvax.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, meltie wrote: > However, I don't know how to partition these disks under NetBSD - i've had > a bit of a fiddle with disklabel but quite frankly I get a bit lost, and > most of the time disklabel locks up on me anyway - I suspect this is > because it cannot know the true geometry of the disk it is talking to, but > that's just a supposition... What kind of disks are they in the HSD? There are disklabels around for a variety of older DEC drives which can be applied to netbsd or you can manufacture one yourself with the total block size and a couple of other factors. You can often disklabel a smaller label onto a larger disk. You will have some unusable space but it will get the disk labelled. What OS do you have doing the disklabel? From dmabry at mich.com Thu Mar 11 22:50:23 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: grid In-Reply-To: <4051110A.E1016B6@msm.umr.edu> References: <000801c3ceea$876f6700$d942fea9@y3qj80nvt2c2u8r> <404DF529.2090201@mich.com> <4051110A.E1016B6@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <4051418F.7010706@mich.com> jim wrote: > > Dave, > > I looked for "grid" "grid computing" in the yahoo cespool of > discussion groups, and found that the term "grid computing" > seems to apply to the type of computing used by seti, computing > by people who are "networking" as in yuppies, and so forth, > but out of the 400 or so hits I didn't find one that was dedicated > to grid incorporated computers (laptop too early a term for > these?). > > can you post the link or email it to me to the thing, as in > http://groups.yahoo.com/?something? > > thanks > Jim > > http://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.intl=us&.src=ygrp&.done=http://groups.yahoo.com%2Fgroup%2FRuGRiD-Laptop%2Fjoin%3Fyguid%3D137022277%26finish%3Dsub -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 11 23:07:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: TRS 80 Model 1 Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040311213700.02655340@mail.degnanco.net> from "B.Degnan" at Mar 11, 4 09:49:41 pm Message-ID: > > Hello. > I am about to take a TRS 80 under the knife to repair a keyboard. The > computer works fine, 16K Model 1/ 008 (never seen one with a part number > ending with "1008". The S/N 0000738) ...Anyway the E key does not work on > the main keyboard, and the 2 key does not work on the number pad. I > believe it's a contact problem, not a chip problem, based on what I have The latter _must_ be a contact problem (the 2 '2' keys, on the main part and the number pad, are just wired in parallel), the former almost certainly is too (it could be a very strange ROM error, but I think we can ignore that for now). The M1/3/4 keyboards are electrically a matrix of switches. They're scanned by the CPU address lines (!), suitably buffered. The outputs go to the data lines, also via buffers. A chip fault will take out an entire row or column of the matrix. I am not sure what sort of keyboard you have. Old model 1s have the leaf spring switches, like on a VT100 or HP85. With those you can pull the keycaps, plungers and springs and if necessary desolder individual contacts. Often, though, just pulling the keycaps and cleaning things cures problems. M3s, M4s, and I believe later M1s have indidual keyswitches (and I think there are at least 2 flavours). You can pull the keycaps, desolder the switch pins from the PCB, and then unclip the switch from the frame. The switch then comes apart for cleaning. Some of them use conductive rubber contacts -- if you can't get this type to work, rub a very soft pencil (a 6B if yo can get one) over the rubber contact inisde the rubber dome. I had to do this to my M4 keyboard. I then moved the dubious switches to the number pad, since I never use that area. That way I had all good swtichs on the main part of the keyboard... -tony From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 12 04:19:49 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] HSD05 formatting In-Reply-To: References: <200403101413.41315.port-vax@microvax.org> Message-ID: <200403121019.49564.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 12 March 2004 03:11, Paul Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, meltie wrote: > > However, I don't know how to partition these disks under NetBSD - i've > > had a bit of a fiddle with disklabel but quite frankly I get a bit > > lost, and most of the time disklabel locks up on me anyway - I suspect > > this is because it cannot know the true geometry of the disk it is > > talking to, but that's just a supposition... > > What kind of disks are they in the HSD? There are disklabels around for > a variety of older DEC drives which can be applied to netbsd or you can > manufacture one yourself with the total block size and a couple of other > factors. They're RZ28s, although the HSD's reporting them all as RF72 disks. Which one should I be trying to label them as? > You can often disklabel a smaller label onto a larger disk. You will > have some unusable space but it will get the disk labelled. > > What OS do you have doing the disklabel? NetBSD 1.5.2 :) alex/melt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 12 05:01:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity In-Reply-To: <200403120125.12263.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 12 March 2004 01:25 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: VaxStation Keyboard Insanity > > Nah, DECstation [2|3]100s have ports right there on the mainboard. > Motherboard. Logic Board. Argh, what's the proper DEC-speak for it? > > Anyway, no breakout box there. Just checked my M48 and sho'nuff everything plugs into the back. My S3 is down but I don't know what the previous purpose of the machine was before I rescued it from Compaq! Cheers w From majordomo1 at cox.net Fri Mar 12 05:59:38 2004 From: majordomo1 at cox.net (majordomo1@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: TRS 80 Model 1 Question Message-ID: <20040312115938.QGFZ27519.lakemtao03.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Ahoy, I've performed a cleaning procedure many times using a paper clip hooked under the key, and pulling straight up till it flew out. One drop of alcohol of at least 91% is then applied. Look for where the key landed and reseat it, and your OK. .. good luck .. harry .. > > From: "B.Degnan" > Date: 2004/03/11 Thu PM 09:49:41 EST > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: TRS 80 Model 1 Question > > Hello. > I am about to take a TRS 80 under the knife to repair a keyboard. The > computer works fine, 16K Model 1/ 008 (never seen one with a part number > ending with "1008". The S/N 0000738) ...Anyway the E key does not work on > the main keyboard, and the 2 key does not work on the number pad. I > believe it's a contact problem, not a chip problem, based on what I have > read. I have a schematic for TRS 80 Model III. I *assume* that the model > I and III keyboards are basically the same enough to give me a clue where > to isolate the circuitry for the "E" and "2" keys . Looking for a second > opinion. Also if anyone on this mailing list knows details about the TRS > 80 "008", I would be curious to lean more. I believe this is the last > version of the TRS 80 Model 1, but other than that I have found few > references to this model on the Internet from searching. > bill from wilm, delaware > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 12 06:06:38 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen Message-ID: <1079093197.6859.27.camel@weka.localdomain> posted to sci.electronics.repair, but some of you guys might be able to help too... I've just been given a nice Iiyama 21" screen for free which seems to run quite happily, with the exception that the colours are screwed in the bottom-right inch or so of the display; the same sort of effect that would be achieved by holding a big magnet in that corner of the screen. Degaussing seems to have variable effect; sometimes it almost cures it and sometimes it just makes it worse, but it never goes away. Any ideas what might be up with it? Or is it a mechanical fault (i.e. the picture tube just shot)? Also, is this something that will get worse now it's started? If not, I could almost live with replacing the 17" screen on my desktop PC with this one, as the 17" is getting a little fuzzy and at least this 21" screen has a crisp display even if there is a bit of colour damage right in the corner... cheers Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Mar 12 06:17:00 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: "RP02-like" disk packs; yours for the postage Message-ID: <200403121217.i2CCH0f24605@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi, I bought 3 "RL02-like" disk packs on ebay which of course turn out not to be RL02's. (the picture was of an actual RL02, so I took a chance...) Anyway, before I toss them in the dumpster if anyone would like them they are yours for the postage. They are physically ok and fit into an RL02 drive. They spin up fine but don't come ready (no doubt due to missing timing track or something like that) Perhaps some other non-DEC machine can use them. -brad From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 12 06:35:41 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <1079093197.6859.27.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 12 March 2004 12:07 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen > > posted to sci.electronics.repair, but some of you guys might > be able to help too... > > I've just been given a nice Iiyama 21" screen for free which > seems to run quite happily, with the exception that the > colours are screwed in the bottom-right inch or so of the > display; the same sort of effect that would be achieved by > holding a big magnet in that corner of the screen. I had the same problem with a 21" Digital job I rescued from Compaq since it was on its way to the dumpster. I lived with it for a while until I discovered the 'advanced' settings on the OSD, followed by something called 'purity' that directly affected the colours on the diagonals of the tube. Assuming that the Iiyama is a Trinitron tube like the DEC one you might have a similar setting. Later it started flickering and dimming, but that's another story :) Cya w From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 12 06:52:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: [x-post from port-vax] HSD05 formatting In-Reply-To: <200403121019.49564.lists@microvax.org> References: <200403101413.41315.port-vax@microvax.org> <200403121019.49564.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <20040312125236.GA21736@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 10:19:49AM +0000, meltie wrote: > They're RZ28s, although the HSD's reporting them all as RF72 disks. Which > one should I be trying to label them as? [...] > NetBSD 1.5.2 :) Can you dd(1) from / to the raw disk "c" partition? Maybe there is some write protect magic activated in the HSD... BTW: We have a shining new NetBSD 1.6.2 release... ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 12 07:26:28 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1079097988.6859.48.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 12:35, Witchy wrote: > I had the same problem with a 21" Digital job I rescued from Compaq since it > was on its way to the dumpster. I lived with it for a while until I > discovered the 'advanced' settings on the OSD, followed by something called > 'purity' that directly affected the colours on the diagonals of the tube. > Assuming that the Iiyama is a Trinitron tube like the DEC one you might have > a similar setting. Ooh, thanks - I'll give that a go. I'm sure it does have that option. It certainly has vertical convergance which is nice; that's what started drifting on my 17" screen (with no user control to tweak it) - I fiddled with the back of the tube and got things back to normal but now it's going again and prolonged use gives me a headache :/ Hence I'm looking for a swap at the moment anyway. > Later it started flickering and dimming, but that's another story :) Well this one apparently had "wonky colours" according to the chap I got it from, but I'm sure I made things worse shipping it home. It broke free of its moorings whilst going round a sharp corner - one very heavy monitor somersaulted across the boot of the car with one hell of a bang :-( I'm amazed the tube didn't implode to be honest, or I didn't smash any of the boards. Net damage seems to be the loss of a 4" chunk of plastic from front of the casing... I am curious as to what the thin cable around the very front of the screen is supposed to do. That got somewhat battered when the case smashed. I currently have the plastic case off (and hence this wire uplugged) whilst I glue it back together, and out of curiousity powered the monitor up. It came up with a nice crisp normal image. Odd. Probably coincidence... it does suggest that whatever the problem is is fixable though (unless something's loose inside the tube itself I suppose) cheers Jules From cb at mythtech.net Fri Mar 12 08:34:25 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen Message-ID: >It broke >free of its moorings whilst going round a sharp corner - one very heavy >monitor somersaulted across the boot of the car with one hell of a bang >:-( > >I'm amazed the tube didn't implode to be honest, I don't know, I've found monitor tubes to be fairly sturdy when it comes to imploding. I've TRIED to break them before when throwing them out (why? because its fun). And it usually takes a few good whacks with something fairly heavy to crack the front glass. And then it just hisses as the vacuum is broken and lots of nasty dust floats around... no magic imploding like you see on TV. On the other hand, I've found the back end of tubes, to be very sensitive to breakage, and have cracked the gun off a number of them due to improper shipping, or just giving a hard throw into a dumpster. But again, no imploding, just broken glass. I do plan to attempt to play "monitor golf" with the next one I throw out... take a 10 lb sledge hammer, and swing it like a golf club at the front of the monitor, and see either how far you drive the hammer into the screen, or how far the monitor rolls away. :-) And alas, the building I work in is being sold to a more conservative owner (the local hospital), so I'm loosing my ability to toss things off the roof to watch them smash into the parking lot. The current owner lives many states away and is a little more relaxed about these things... but I don't think the hospital will be happy to have me continue my adventures under their ownership. :-( -chris From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 12 08:52:11 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <1079097988.6859.48.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040312145211.58534.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> This is fixable. It is caused when some material is magnetized. The process to fix it is called 'demagnetizing'. The theory is simple: You apply a changin magnetic field (for example, that created by a coil with 60Hz AC), and graduately decrease the strength of the magnetic field (for example, you pull the coil further away from the monitor while moving it in circle). It will fix the problem. Some monitor or TV has build in circuit to perform the process. vax3900 --- Jules Richardson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 12:35, Witchy wrote: > > I had the same problem with a 21" Digital job I > rescued from Compaq since it > > was on its way to the dumpster. I lived with it > for a while until I > > discovered the 'advanced' settings on the OSD, > followed by something called > > 'purity' that directly affected the colours on the > diagonals of the tube. > > Assuming that the Iiyama is a Trinitron tube like > the DEC one you might have > > a similar setting. > > Ooh, thanks - I'll give that a go. I'm sure it does > have that option. It > certainly has vertical convergance which is nice; > that's what started > drifting on my 17" screen (with no user control to > tweak it) - I fiddled > with the back of the tube and got things back to > normal but now it's > going again and prolonged use gives me a headache :/ > Hence I'm looking > for a swap at the moment anyway. > > > Later it started flickering and dimming, but > that's another story :) > > Well this one apparently had "wonky colours" > according to the chap I got > it from, but I'm sure I made things worse shipping > it home. It broke > free of its moorings whilst going round a sharp > corner - one very heavy > monitor somersaulted across the boot of the car with > one hell of a bang > :-( > > I'm amazed the tube didn't implode to be honest, or > I didn't smash any > of the boards. Net damage seems to be the loss of a > 4" chunk of plastic > from front of the casing... > > I am curious as to what the thin cable around the > very front of the > screen is supposed to do. That got somewhat battered > when the case > smashed. I currently have the plastic case off (and > hence this wire > uplugged) whilst I glue it back together, and out of > curiousity powered > the monitor up. It came up with a nice crisp normal > image. Odd. Probably > coincidence... it does suggest that whatever the > problem is is fixable > though (unless something's loose inside the tube > itself I suppose) > > cheers > > Jules > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Mar 12 09:07:55 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:03 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <1079097988.6859.48.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1079097988.6859.48.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403121007.55528.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 12 March 2004 08:26, Jules Richardson wrote: > Well this one apparently had "wonky colours" according to the chap I > got it from, but I'm sure I made things worse shipping it home. It > broke free of its moorings whilst going round a sharp corner - one > very heavy monitor somersaulted across the boot of the car with one > hell of a bang > > I am curious as to what the thin cable around the very front of the > screen is supposed to do. That got somewhat battered when the case > smashed. I currently have the plastic case off (and hence this wire That's the degaussing cable - what removes stray magnetism from the monitor on power-up/pressing of a 'degauss' button. In fact, a slightly magnetized monitor could cause some color shifting. You might try finding an external degausser and trying that as well. Just make sure you do it away from any magnetic media. (And in a strange coincidence, a song called "Magnetic" from a local band I like is playing right now on from the playlist queue. Hmm...) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 12 09:16:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <200403121007.55528.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <1079097988.6859.48.camel@weka.localdomain> <200403121007.55528.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1079104588.6859.61.camel@weka.localdomain> > That's the degaussing cable - what removes stray magnetism from the > monitor on power-up/pressing of a 'degauss' button. I thought that was the thicker cable running round the edge of the screen? Unless they're both related somehow... cheers Jules From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Mar 12 09:11:21 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: References: <1079093197.6859.27.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <4681.65.123.179.147.1079104281.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> >> I've just been given a nice Iiyama 21" screen for free which >> seems to run quite happily, with the exception that the >> colours are screwed in the bottom-right inch or so of the >> display; the same sort of effect that would be achieved by >> holding a big magnet in that corner of the screen. No problem, the shadow mask inside the CRT is magnetized. Using a Weller soldering gun, just pull the trigger and hold the Weller sideways to the screen and move around in the area of the funny colors, and then pull the Wellwr away from the screen while still squeezing the trigger. That should cure the problem. You might listen and determine if the auto-degauss circuitry is working. You should here a strange thump/thud when you first turn on the monitor -- if not the degausssing coil isn't working right. There is a thermistor/varistor that when cold puts 110v AC into a coil of wire around the CRT. This is a very common failure in both monitors and television sets. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Mar 12 09:25:45 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <1079104588.6859.61.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200403121007.55528.pat@computer-refuge.org> <1079104588.6859.61.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403121025.45409.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 12 March 2004 10:16, Jules Richardson wrote: > > That's the degaussing cable - what removes stray magnetism from the > > monitor on power-up/pressing of a 'degauss' button. > > I thought that was the thicker cable running round the edge of the > screen? Hmm. Perhaps a picture would help... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From Keeshz at aol.com Thu Mar 11 23:23:53 2004 From: Keeshz at aol.com (Keeshz@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: epson qx-10 computer Message-ID: Did you ever sell or give away your QX-10? I am looking to acquire one. Thanks. Mary keeshz@aol.com From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 10:30:10 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <200403121532.i2CFW1J7034228@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200403121649.i2CGnpJ2034580@huey.classiccmp.org> -Neil >Date: 12 Mar 2004 15:16:29 +0000 >From: Jules Richardson >Subject: Re: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen >To: "General Discussion: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >Message-ID: <1079104588.6859.61.camel@weka.localdomain> >Content-Type: text/plain > > That's the degaussing cable - what removes stray magnetism from the > monitor on power-up/pressing of a 'degauss' button. If physically unplugging the degaussing coil (which is the loop of wire around the front of the monitor) fixes the color issue I would suspect that the degaussing switch circuit has become leaky and is leaving the coil partially energized all the time. The coil sees power for a short period when the monitor is first powered up or the user calls for a 'degaussing' from the monitor controls. Under normal use the coil should not be energized. -Neil From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 12 02:44:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <1079097988.6859.48.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 12 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > I'm amazed the tube didn't implode to be honest, or I didn't smash any > of the boards. Net damage seems to be the loss of a 4" chunk of plastic > from front of the casing... CRTs are amazingly tough. I've dropped more than a few on accident from 4-5 feet and they usually just bounce. Normally the enclosure gets damaged but the CRT--even the neck--stays intact. Only one television stands out in my memory that fell flat on its face from a height of about 2-3' and imploded, but that was the exception. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 12 02:46:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <20040312145211.58534.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > This is fixable. It is caused when some material is > magnetized. The process to fix it is called > 'demagnetizing'. The theory is simple: You apply a > changin magnetic field (for example, that created by a > coil with 60Hz AC), and graduately decrease the > strength of the magnetic field (for example, you pull > the coil further away from the monitor while moving it > in circle). It will fix the problem. Some monitor or > TV has build in circuit to perform the process. In my experience, this is a lot trickier than it sounds. I would first practice on a CRT that you aren't fond of before moving on to the one you're trying to rehabilitate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Mar 10 10:35:50 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: New-in-Box Atari 825 printers In-Reply-To: <005501c40666$46e52630$0500fea9@game> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040310113505.04bd92a0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Teo Zenios may have mentioned these words: >http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/400800/825/825.html > >Interesting story about that printer. And another one, with an Atari 800 on an S-100 card, from the same site: http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/400800/ATARI800/800-d.html Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From MTPro at aol.com Fri Mar 12 13:08:00 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Apple T-Shirts book Message-ID: <7073A116.4604C448.0000EF7A@aol.com> Apple T-Shirts: A Yearbook of History at Apple Computer by Gordon Thygeson Hello all, I've been looking for a copy of this book for some time, and I finally found someone with a few copies for sale. If you're interested, here's some info from amazon.com about it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966139348/qid=1079118229/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/103-1524224-7007858?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Please write Erin O'Conner at: erinoc@yahoo.com Best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Fri Mar 12 13:41:21 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Stupid Wire Wrapper Questions In-Reply-To: <200403090746.i297jwJB010122@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403090746.i297jwJB010122@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1079120480.25158.1.camel@pantelleria.ifi.uio.no> Alright. Here are some questions regarding the PDP-7 wire rewrapping: Are there different sizes? Different/special wires? Is it hard? In comparison to soldering? Are there huge differences in wrapper types? I've got several offers, and thank you all for those. With some of this info, I might get back to some of them. :) -tsb From tomj at wps.com Fri Mar 12 13:50:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: TRS 80 Model 1 Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040311213700.02655340@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040311213700.02655340@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: > From: B.Degnan > I am about to take a TRS 80 under the knife to repair a keyboard. The > ...Anyway the E key does not work on > the main keyboard, and the 2 key does not work on the number pad. I > believe it's a contact problem, not a chip problem, based on what I have > read. Chip!? ahahahahahaha.... :-) The good old Trash 80 keyboard is just a contact matrix, scanned by the ROM software, so it should be easy to fix. From aek at spies.com Fri Mar 12 15:38:01 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: "RP02-like" disk packs; yours for the postage Message-ID: <200403122138.i2CLc1nk015060@spies.com> I fell for the same thing. They are 12 sector 5440 packs. He also did an AMAZINGLY poor job of packing. 7 packs in a cardboard box with NO padding. Shipped USPS media mail. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 12 09:30:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: <49fa8c8c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I've been thinking about getting one of those nice little VT520 amberscreen > DEC terminals that have been popping up on VCM. Only problem is, I bet > they're incredibly heavy and thus very expensive to send transatlantic. That > and I doubt the power supply would appreciate getting over twice the rated > voltage pushed into the input - natch. Hi Philip. As I mentioned to you in private e-mail, the DEC VT-520 is not terribly heavy--24lbs. Still, it would cost US$56 to ship to the UK. All other options (Fedex, DHL) are unfathomably expensive. The VT520 power supply is universal: it can accept 110-240 (no switching required; internal regulation). My problem now is I've run out of keyboards. I got in about 20 of these terminals but only 7 LK461 keyboards. These have PS/2 style connectors. I can plug a standard PC keyboard into them and the basic keys seem to work, but the function key mapping is different, as when I press F3, which should take me into the Setup screens with an LK461 keyboard, has no effect with a PC keyboard. Has anyone got a bunch of LK461 or equivalent keyboards for sale or trade? I have a bunch of LK201 keyboards I can spare. Alas, these won't work with the VT520 (RJ22 telephone handset style jack). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 12 18:07:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <1079093197.6859.27.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Mar 12, 4 12:06:38 pm Message-ID: > > posted to sci.electronics.repair, but some of you guys might be able to > help too... > > I've just been given a nice Iiyama 21" screen for free which seems to > run quite happily, with the exception that the colours are screwed in > the bottom-right inch or so of the display; the same sort of effect that > would be achieved by holding a big magnet in that corner of the screen. This is called a purity problem. There are basically 3 sets of adjustments to a colour CRT/monitor over and above the ones for a monochrome CRT : Purity : Getting the red beam to only hit red phosphor, etc Convergence : Getting the beams to hit dots next to each other Grey Scale Tracking : Getting the relative intensities of the colours correct (so that grey/white are neutral colours) Gettign the purity correct depends on having a good shadowmask (or equivalent in Trinitron, etc CRTs -- all these tubes work on essentially the smae principles!). You then use magnets on the CRT neck to deflect the beams slightly. Normally you set the thing up displaying a pure red raster, at which point you hope the other colours are right too! After setting the purity, you then have to do the convergence. This is set (on modern CRTs) with more magnetic rings on the CRT neck, and also by tilting the yoke slightly. I can remember, though, when there were a dozen or more electrical convergence controls, and when you had to set up the monitor in the position it was going to be used. Mind you, the results were worth it (I've nver seen a modern TV that has as good a convergence as my old Delta-gun Barco!). > > Degaussing seems to have variable effect; sometimes it almost cures it > and sometimes it just makes it worse, but it never goes away. You mentioned in another message that this monitor has suffered physcial damage. And I may therefore have some bad news for you. Try hitting (carefully!) that corner of the CRT with the palm of your hand when the monitor is on. Do the colours change, and end up different? If so, then I suspect damage to the shaddowmask or its fixing (I seem to rememebr this is a Trinitron tube, the mask in those is a whole lot of thin 'wires' running veritcally down the CRT). Nothing much can be done about this short of a new CRT (even rugunning places can't normally fix this). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 12 18:13:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Stupid Wire Wrapper Questions In-Reply-To: <1079120480.25158.1.camel@pantelleria.ifi.uio.no> from "Tore S Bekkedal" at Mar 12, 4 08:41:21 pm Message-ID: > > Alright. Here are some questions regarding the PDP-7 wire rewrapping: > > Are there different sizes? There are sevearl sizes of wire-wrap bit/tool, depending on the thickness of the wore you want to wrap. At least on later DEC machines (PDP8s, PDP11s), they used the most common size that you can get anyware (#26? #30??) > > Different/special wires? You _must_ use the special wire-wrap wire. Also get a good wirestripper, set for that size of wire (you can get wirestrippers for wire-wrap wire). You'll go mad getting the insulation off otherwise. A rotary wirestripper is probably the nicest if you have one/can afford one (They are _not_ cheap). > > Is it hard? In comparison to soldering? Very easy. I think it's easier than soldering, but you do need to practice a little first. -tony From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 12 13:36:43 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: References: <20040312145211.58534.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040313003539.ILPB17655.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > This is fixable. It is caused when some material is > magnetized. The process to fix it is called > 'demagnetizing'. The theory is simple: You apply a > changin magnetic field (for example, that created by a > coil with 60Hz AC), and graduately decrease the > strength of the magnetic field (for example, you pull > the coil further away from the monitor while moving it > in circle). It will fix the problem. Some monitor or > TV has build in circuit to perform the process. > In my experience, this is a lot trickier than it sounds. I would > first practice on a CRT that you aren't fond of before moving on to > the one you're trying to rehabilitate. Coils for CRTs are wrapped in electrical tape and shaped to suit to hug the CRT. Electrical tape they used can be any color, rarely see one with off the beaten trail color like yellow, blue etc. In tritron CRT monitors especially high end, it has many coils around the back of CRT, one is degaussing, at least 2 thinner coils for purity compensation, one round coil near CRT yoke for picture rotation (common to many monitors also found in some direct view TVs.) Sounds like the purity compensation circuit isn't working, check that your monitor compass module is working. Yes there are few monitors has one uses it for automatic purity adjustments when monitor is facing in different direction. How I know? Fixed an high end sony 21" monitor with that feature. It was bad compass module IC, more precise, a pin corroded off, fixed that by grinding away black package and solder short strand of to make connection. Compass module board is usually horizontal and almost centered where the base axis is. Cheers, Wizard -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 12 11:30:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: EBAY??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > As I mentioned to you in private e-mail, the DEC VT-520 is not terribly > heavy--24lbs. Still, it would cost US$56 to ship to the UK. All other > options (Fedex, DHL) are unfathomably expensive. Edification: US$56 via US Postal Service. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Mar 12 23:31:08 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: VAX wanted In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040311183712.008d8e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040311183712.008d8e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040313053108.GD2356@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Joe R., from writings of Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 06:37:12PM -0500: > How about an 11/44A? Just found one today. Haven't even opened it up yet. What's the difference between an 11/44 and an 11/44A? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Mar 13 01:32:13 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: older technical software Message-ID: <004801c408cd$4e0058e0$ab2c1941@game> Do you guys ever come across older technical software for the PC or Mac? Over the last few years I have found copies of some cad software along with mathematics, MathCAD, and a few other goodies for my 68k macs. I was wondering how common that kind of software is and what kind of places would have it. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Mar 13 03:06:13 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: VAX wanted In-Reply-To: <20040313053108.GD2356@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040311183712.008d8e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040313053108.GD2356@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Quothe Joe R., from writings of Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 06:37:12PM -0500: >> How about an 11/44A? Just found one today. Haven't even opened it up yet. > >What's the difference between an 11/44 and an 11/44A? Or is the first 4 a typo? I've never heard of a /44A, but there is a /34A. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 13 06:51:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: older technical software In-Reply-To: <004801c408cd$4e0058e0$ab2c1941@game> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040313075105.00854c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I find this kind of stuff all the time. In fact, I went to a place a few days ago and found three large boxs of software. I picked up a COMPLETE package of WordPerfect 5 and a set of service manuals for the HP LaserJet 4xx printers. I've had GOOD luck finding stuff in scrap places and can get stuff like this for almost nothing. (That's exactly what these cost). It also turns up in surplus stores but they frequently want you to PAY for the stuff :-/ That takes all the fun out of scrounging! Joe At 02:32 AM 3/13/04 -0500, you wrote: >Do you guys ever come across older technical software for the PC or Mac? Over the last few years I have found copies of some cad software along with mathematics, MathCAD, and a few other goodies for my 68k macs. I was wondering how common that kind of software is and what kind of places would have it. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 13 06:55:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: VAX wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20040313053108.GD2356@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <007f01c4077c$e6f26180$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040311183712.008d8e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040313053108.GD2356@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040313075533.00855bf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:06 AM 3/13/04 -0800, Zane wrote: >>Quothe Joe R., from writings of Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 06:37:12PM -0500: >>> How about an 11/44A? Just found one today. Haven't even opened it up yet. >> >>What's the difference between an 11/44 and an 11/44A? > >Or is the first 4 a typo? I've never heard of a /44A, but there is a /34A. Nope it's not a typo. I have one that's marked as a 44A. No idea what the differences are but everything that I cound find on the net seems to be listed as a 44. I only found one reference to a 44A. Zane, I sent you a message directly but I haven't gotten a reply. Joe From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Mar 13 10:22:02 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: older technical software References: <004801c408cd$4e0058e0$ab2c1941@game> Message-ID: <000e01c40917$63825480$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 2:32 AM Subject: older technical software Do you guys ever come across older technical software for the PC or Mac? Over the last few years I have found copies of some cad software along with mathematics, MathCAD, and a few other goodies for my 68k macs. I was wondering how common that kind of software is and what kind of places would have it. ____ Most of my Apple and Mac software is games and stuff for kids. I have boxes and boxes of it. The PC stuff is mostly spreadsheet and Wordstar type. I must say though that for virtually every computer I have, there is some software. Not really sure what the point of the discussion is but in the hardware/softare/manual triumverate, my choice would be manuals first, software second and hardware third. Second and third aren't much good without the first. Yet it seems that the paper/disc things are thrown out first, hardware last. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Mar 13 11:03:53 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Experiences with shippping heavy stuff Eur-> US ? Message-ID: <68568EB2-7510-11D8-ADA9-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Anyone have practical experiences shipping some 75 kg of computer from Europe to the US ? Any companies to be recommended ? Rates that have been paid ? Jos From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Mar 13 11:37:42 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Experiences with shippping heavy stuff Eur-> US ? In-Reply-To: <68568EB2-7510-11D8-ADA9-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> References: <68568EB2-7510-11D8-ADA9-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Mar 2004, Jos Dreesen wrote: > Anyone have practical experiences shipping some 75 kg of computer from > Europe to the US ? > Well, big old electronic music stuff, US to London(180kg), US to Spain(60kg), and vintage audio gear, US to Belgium(45kg)... I don't think that the other way makes much difference. > Any companies to be recommended ? > I have had the best service from Schenker International.... never a problem, rates always among the lowest - and the have offices worldwide that are (gasp!) all on the same network, so your local European office knows what the destination people are doing. Makes it very nice. > Rates that have been paid ? US (Nevada) to London suburbs, Yamaha CS-80 synthesizer and accessories, in a custom crate, 180KG all-up - US$324 air freight, door-to-door service *including customs clearance in England* - five days from loading on my end to unpacking at the customer's place. www.schenker.com Cheers John From david at errock.co.uk Fri Mar 12 11:04:36 2004 From: david at errock.co.uk (David Errock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad 1512 Message-ID: <000a01c40854$198b2140$a566edc1@daviderrock> Hi, I offered you an Amstrad 1512 some time ago... It's gone now - would you mind removing my email from the classiccmp website? Many thanks, David From dave at coldfusion.fsnet.co.uk Fri Mar 12 14:49:15 2004 From: dave at coldfusion.fsnet.co.uk (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd Message-ID: <006201c40873$7c5ac040$9a1487d9@agamemnon> Hi Folks! Anybody got a set of schematics for an Apple Lisa IO board? Must be the eariler 2/5 version (Part No. 620-0117) Had a look on the net but can only find diagrams for the later 2/10 board. Failing that, anybody in the UK with a spare IO board for a Lisa 2/5 ? Cheers, Dave . From wei at weisd.com Fri Mar 12 14:16:01 2004 From: wei at weisd.com (WEI) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: 74H52 Message-ID: Jim: We have 5ea 74H52?s in stock @ .99 if you still need one. www.weisd.com and type 74H52 in the search box. Mel Pooley Wholesale Electronics Inc wei@weisd.com www.weisd.com From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Mar 13 01:19:15 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) Message-ID: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll I finally went to the archives when I didn't receive any responses here and found that ya'll couldn't open the pics... so here they are in zip form... could someone please tell me what the heck this is from? Thanks Lyos Gemini Norezel http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/strangekeyboard.zip Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 13 12:16:42 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Experiences with shippping heavy stuff Eur-> US ? References: <68568EB2-7510-11D8-ADA9-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <4053500A.90001@jetnet.ab.ca> John Lawson wrote: >>Anyone have practical experiences shipping some 75 kg of computer from >>Europe to the US ? > Well, big old electronic music stuff, US to London(180kg), US to > Spain(60kg), and vintage audio gear, US to Belgium(45kg)... I don't think > that the other way makes much difference. That is easy to fix! Just include a paper tape program for your CPU that plays music. :) Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 13 04:50:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd In-Reply-To: <006201c40873$7c5ac040$9a1487d9@agamemnon> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, David Williams wrote: > Anybody got a set of schematics for an Apple Lisa IO board? Must be the > eariler 2/5 version (Part No. 620-0117) Had a look on the net but can only > find diagrams for the later 2/10 board. Hi Dave. I've got it...somewhere. If you can't find it from anyone else then let me know and I'll dig but the standard caveat applies: I may not be able to get to it for a while. In the meantime, you can try these folks: http://stores.ebay.com/VintageMicros-Computer-Collectibles John is a great guy and has exactly what you need (schematics and the I/O board itself). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 13 08:46:20 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040313194511.PCTZ17655.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:19:15 -0800 (PST) From: Lyos Norezel To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) Reply-to: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Hey ya'll I finally went to the archives when I didn't receive any responses here and found that ya'll couldn't open the pics... so here they are in zip form... could someone please tell me what the Lyos Gemini Norezel http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/strangekeyboard.zip Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam Never ever use yahoo website, has tiny bandwidth limit and it aborted the download and closed it down. Please find decent website or use your website that you got from your ISP. Cheers, Wizard From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Mar 13 15:22:41 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: monitor with screwed colour in bottom-right of screen In-Reply-To: <20040313003539.ILPB17655.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20040312145211.58534.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <20040313003539.ILPB17655.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <1079212960.8307.8.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 19:36, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Sounds like the purity compensation circuit isn't working, check that > your monitor compass module is working. Yes there are few monitors > has one uses it for automatic purity adjustments when monitor is > facing in different direction. > > How I know? Fixed an high end sony 21" monitor with that feature. > It was bad compass module IC, more precise, a pin corroded off, fixed > that by grinding away black package and solder short strand of to > make connection. Compass module board is usually horizontal and > almost centered where the base axis is. Funnily enough, I'm using the screen right now, just to see how good it is for prolonged use. The display is almost perfect in the position that I want to sit it on my desk - after reading your post I just tried rotating it and the problem does indeed get worse depending on which direction the screen is facing. Whether the screen has such a compass module which is faulty (first time I've ever heard of such a thing!) or whether it's just down to natural magentic fields I don't know. I never realised the orientation of a screen could have such an effect on the output though! I need to find some good test patterns and then go tweaking a little - the focus could do with a tiny adjustment IMHO anyway. (There's a 3-way switch inside the monitor; I was hoping one position was for some kind of built in test mode but it seems not) cheers Jules From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Mar 13 15:46:16 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Hey ya'll I finally went to the archives when I didn't receive any > responses here and found that ya'll couldn't open the pics... so here > they are in zip form... could someone please tell me what the heck > this is from? > http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/strangekeyboard.zip I tried, but they all cause bmptoppm to crash. (For others: the zip file contains four files, keyboard%d.bmp for %d from 1 thorugh 4.) [Sparkle] 1701> bmptoppm < keyboard1.bmp > keyboard1.ppm bmptoppm: Windows BMP, 637x825x24 bmptoppm: cbFix: 40 bmptoppm: cx: 637 bmptoppm: cy: 825 bmptoppm: cPlanes: 1 bmptoppm: cBitCount: 24 bmptoppm: warning: offBits is 54, expected 67108918 xshowppm: can't read input picture: EOF looking for magic number Segmentation fault (core dumped) [Sparkle] 1702> Not that I'm all that likely to recognize it, but it would help if you could use a format like ppm, or gif, or jpeg.... As for the geocities issue, I have some ftp space I can put the zipfile up for ftp from if you want. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Mar 13 16:00:18 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1079215217.8307.46.camel@weka.localdomain> Breakthrough! (for no apparent reason) We revisited one of our sick RA81 drives again today, having aquired some proper schematics. Several of you had suggested the HDA spindle transducer, and it does indeed look like that's the problem, at least on one of our drives. In glorious ASCII-vision, the connection to the spindle sensor on the read/write board bolted to the top of the HDA is as follows: Spindle Read / write Sensor board conn. 82ohm red o----------XXX----------+------< +5V | black o-----TEMP SENS. OUT | | yellow o-----------------------+------> TACH. OUT Putting a scope on the tacho output from the sensor showed it at 5V (tied to +5V via the 470 ohm resistor) with the drive at rest. When we tried spinning the drive up, there was some fluctuation on the output, but it dropped to only 4.5V max or so and obviously didn't look healthy. Voltage at the pin where the red wire connects - i.e. supply to the sensor LED(s) was around 1.3V and so seemed healthy enough. We pulled the HDA and took the sensor off to try it on the bench in isolation by replicating the circuit above and repeatedly breaking the beam with a bit of card. Note that it showed no signs of being dirty. This is where things got strange - at first it behaved just as in the RA81, the output which was tied high by a 470ohm resistor dropping by maybe 0.5V. But then it quickly began to pick up, the voltage ducking further and further below 5V until it suddenly seemed to be operating perfectly, the output swinging between +5V and close to 0. We left it to cool down, thinking it might be a heat related thing. Came back - nope, still working just fine. We let it cool off for an hour or so again, then put the sensor back in the drive and put everything back together. Guess what - one fully operational RA81, spun up without any trouble! I'm totally confused by that - the sensor showed no signs of dirt. It hadn't worked in place in the drive, and nor did it work in isolation on the bench at first. Yet it showed signs of *some* life when originally in place within the drive, so there obviously wasn't a cable break. I'm at a loss to explain that one, and it also means we're just waiting for the drive to fail yet again, as we haven't actually fixed anything (at least we'll know where to look this time!). Next test will be an early morning start when the room that the drive's in is particularly cold I suppose, but today seemed to prove that it would at least work at normal room temperature and above.... cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Sat Mar 13 17:37:12 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) References: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c40954$1c75c6c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Dude, compressed pictures are usually JPEG. Aaaand, *.zips are more and more frequently viruses, so please avoid giving us those. John A. From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sat Mar 13 17:39:27 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40539BAF.8000903@frixxon.co.uk> der Mouse wrote: > >>http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/strangekeyboard.zip > > > I tried, but they all cause bmptoppm to crash. It works fine for me (stock version supplied with Red Hat 9). I've converted the pictures to jpeg and put them in http://vt100.net/tmp/ -- Paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Mar 13 18:14:21 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd In-Reply-To: <006201c40873$7c5ac040$9a1487d9@agamemnon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Williams > Sent: 12 March 2004 20:49 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd > > Hi Folks! > > Anybody got a set of schematics for an Apple Lisa IO board? > Must be the eariler 2/5 version (Part No. 620-0117) Had a > look on the net but can only find diagrams for the later 2/10 board. > > Failing that, anybody in the UK with a spare IO board for a Lisa 2/5 ? I've got a full set of schematics good ol' John Woodall (same bloke Sellam's mentioned)...I'd love to know where he gets his Lisa stuff from! ....problem is they're full size so they're a bit difficult to reduce on a scanner :/ Any bit in particular? Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sat Mar 13 18:48:45 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4053ABED.601@ntlworld.com> >I tried, but they all cause bmptoppm to crash. (For others: the zip >file contains four files, keyboard%d.bmp for %d from 1 thorugh 4.) > >[Sparkle] 1701> bmptoppm < keyboard1.bmp > keyboard1.ppm >bmptoppm: Windows BMP, 637x825x24 >bmptoppm: cbFix: 40 >bmptoppm: cx: 637 >bmptoppm: cy: 825 >bmptoppm: cPlanes: 1 >bmptoppm: cBitCount: 24 >bmptoppm: warning: offBits is 54, expected 67108918 >xshowppm: can't read input picture: EOF looking for magic number >Segmentation fault (core dumped) >[Sparkle] 1702> > >Not that I'm all that likely to recognize it, but it would help if you >could use a format like ppm, or gif, or jpeg.... > >As for the geocities issue, I have some ftp space I can put the zipfile >up for ftp from if you want. > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > I managed to view them fine with xv under solaris, is there a problem with bmptoppm ? Dan From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Mar 13 18:47:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> <1079215217.8307.46.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16467.43955.43000.184847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> ...I'm totally confused by that - the sensor showed no signs of Jules> dirt. It hadn't worked in place in the drive, and nor did it Jules> work in isolation on the bench at first. Yet it showed signs Jules> of *some* life when originally in place within the drive, so Jules> there obviously wasn't a cable break. One guess would be a dirty connector. Unplugging and replugging can rub off oxide that may have accumulated over the years. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Mar 13 19:23:13 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "13 Mar 2004 22:00:18 GMT." <1079215217.8307.46.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403140123.i2E1NDZ07834@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jules Richardson wrote: >We revisited one of our sick RA81 drives again today, having aquired >some proper schematics. schematics? can you scan them? I can't find schematics anywhere for any R* drive... -brad From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 13 11:37:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <40539BAF.8000903@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Mar 2004, Paul Williams wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > > > >>http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/strangekeyboard.zip > > > > > > I tried, but they all cause bmptoppm to crash. > > It works fine for me (stock version supplied with Red Hat 9). > > I've converted the pictures to jpeg and put them in http://vt100.net/tmp/ Thanks for going to all that trouble but I still won't look at them until Lyos manages to get his act together. Sheesh. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Sat Mar 13 21:07:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? Message-ID: <200403140307.i2E370Kp020134@spies.com> schematics? can you scan them? I can't find schematics anywhere for any R* drive... -- I have R80,RA81, and RA60 scanned, will put them up on www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/discs in the next day or two From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Mar 13 21:15:44 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps Message-ID: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> FYI: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: March 13, 2004 Filed at 8:09 p.m. ET WASHINGTON (AP) -- Technology companies should be required to ensure that law enforcement agencies can install wiretaps on Internet traffic and new generations of digital communications, the Justice Department says. The push would effectively expand the scope of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, a 1994 law that requires the telecommunications industry to build into its products tools that U.S. investigators can use to eavesdrop on conversations with a court order. Fearful that federal agents can't install wiretaps against criminals using the latest communications technologies, lawyers for the Justice Department, FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration said their proposals ``require immediate attention and resolution'' by the Federal Communications Commission. They called wiretaps ``an invaluable and necessary tool for federal, state, and local law enforcement in their fight against criminals, terrorists, and spies.'' ``The ability of federal, state, and local law enforcement to carry out critical electronic surveillance is being compromised today,'' they wrote in legal papers filed with the FCC earlier this week. ``Communications among surveillance targets are being lost.... These problems are real, not hypothetical.'' The FCC agreed last month to hold proceedings on the issue to ``address the scope of covered services, assign responsibility for compliance, and identify the wiretap capabilities required.'' Critics said the government's proposal would have far-reaching impact on new communications technologies and could be enormously expensive for companies that need to add wiretap-capabilities to their products, such as push-to-talk cellular telephones and telephone service over Internet lines. The Justice Department urged the FCC to declare that companies must pay for any such improvements themselves, although it said companies should be permitted to pass those expenses on to their customers. Stewart Baker, a Washington telecommunications lawyer and former general counsel at the National Security Agency, complained that the government's proposal applies broadly to high-speed Internet service and puts limits on the introduction of new technology until it can be made wiretap-friendly. Baker said the plan ``seeks to erect a brand new and quite extensive regulatory program'' that gives the FBI and telephone regulators a crucial role in the design of future communications technologies. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Mar 13 21:23:59 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <4053D04F.2040902@jcwren.com> I'm unclear why it's called the "Justice" department. More like the "Intrusion" department. --jc R. D. Davis wrote: >FYI: > > >Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps >By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS > >Published: March 13, 2004 > >Filed at 8:09 p.m. ET > >WASHINGTON (AP) -- Technology companies should be required to ensure >that law enforcement agencies can install wiretaps on Internet >traffic and new generations of digital communications, the >Justice Department says. > >The push would effectively expand the scope of the Communications >Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, a 1994 law that requires the >telecommunications industry to build into its products tools that >U.S. investigators can use to eavesdrop on conversations with a court >order. > >Fearful that federal agents can't install wiretaps against criminals >using the latest communications technologies, lawyers for the Justice >Department, FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration said their >proposals ``require immediate attention and resolution'' by the >Federal Communications Commission. > >They called wiretaps ``an invaluable and necessary tool for federal, >state, and local law enforcement in their fight against criminals, >terrorists, and spies.'' > >``The ability of federal, state, and local law enforcement to carry >out critical electronic surveillance is being compromised today,'' >they wrote in legal papers filed with the FCC earlier this >week. ``Communications among surveillance targets are being >lost.... These problems are real, not hypothetical.'' > >The FCC agreed last month to hold proceedings on the issue to >``address the scope of covered services, assign responsibility for >compliance, and identify the wiretap capabilities required.'' > >Critics said the government's proposal would have far-reaching impact >on new communications technologies and could be enormously expensive >for companies that need to add wiretap-capabilities to their products, >such as push-to-talk cellular telephones and telephone service over >Internet lines. > >The Justice Department urged the FCC to declare that companies must >pay for any such improvements themselves, although it said companies >should be permitted to pass those expenses on to their customers. > >Stewart Baker, a Washington telecommunications lawyer and former >general counsel at the National Security Agency, complained that the >government's proposal applies broadly to high-speed Internet service >and puts limits on the introduction of new technology until it can be >made wiretap-friendly. > >Baker said the plan ``seeks to erect a brand new and quite extensive >regulatory program'' that gives the FBI and telephone regulators a >crucial role in the design of future communications technologies. > > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Mar 13 22:07:28 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps Message-ID: <0403140407.AA00706@ivan.Harhan.ORG> > I'm unclear why it's called the "Justice" department. More like the > "Intrusion" department. All-American States Department of Penalties and Executions. (From Uriy Petuhov's Star Revenge epic, the same one from which the names Harhan and Quasijarus came.) MS From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Mar 13 22:15:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:04 2005 Subject: HP gear available for trade Message-ID: <001c01c4097a$f2ac3a50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have nine 13037 controller boxes. These are the rackmount controllers that are necessary to use 7905/7906, and 7920 drives. They MAY be used for 7925's too, I forget, I can look up the 7925 info if need be. Each 13037 controller box can support up to 8 drives and 2 cpu's. These boxes each contain the microprocessor, error control, and device control PCA's. All have been tested thoroughly (as of tonight) with 7906 drives and burned in with diags - they are known to be completely functional. They have not been thoroughly cleaned and do need that, but since I want to get rid of them I didn't address cosmetics. I will be keeping 3 of the units for myself for sure (and two HP-IB option boards!). If the remaining 6 are not all claimed, I'll scavenge one of them for a spare set of boards, power supply, etc. and pitch the shell. With each 13037 box I will include either an original manual, or a copy (depending on how many duplicates I have) upon request. No cables will be included, but the cables will be available with the 7906 drives (see below). I am guessing the 13037 controller box weighs around 35 pounds. In a few weeks I will be offering some (about 7) 7906 drives as well. I guess if anyone wants a drive and controller, I will wait and ship both together. Any drives I offer will be tested and known working too. All depends on how many of them I can get working. Let me know if you want one, I'm starting the official list :) Expect hefty shipping charges, 7906's are quite a bit heavier than RL02's! Jay West From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Mar 13 22:17:37 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200403140418.XAA09374@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps > [...] Yeah, right. They gonna ban ipsec? That genie is out of its bottle, and can't really be stuffed back in, no matter how hard they try. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Mar 14 05:11:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <16467.43955.43000.184847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> <1079215217.8307.46.camel@weka.localdomain> <16467.43955.43000.184847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1079262690.14792.12.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 00:47, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: > > Jules> ...I'm totally confused by that - the sensor showed no signs of > Jules> dirt. It hadn't worked in place in the drive, and nor did it > Jules> work in isolation on the bench at first. Yet it showed signs > Jules> of *some* life when originally in place within the drive, so > Jules> there obviously wasn't a cable break. > > One guess would be a dirty connector. Unplugging and replugging can > rub off oxide that may have accumulated over the years. Absolutely - I'd already unplugged and plugged the connector back into the read/write board a few times just to try and rule that one out though. I suppose we'll just see how it goes from very cold at next startup. Nothing else in the world seems to use those sensors - yes, floppy drives, tape drives and printers tend to have them, but always in a vertical orientation whilst the ones on the RA81's are horizontal. I suspect we can make up a bracket for a vertical type to somehow mount it horizontally if needs be though... cheers Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Mar 14 04:11:43 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: LF: Information on Dy4 DSM 6816 Message-ID: <20040314101143.LHP19569@mailhost.attcanada.net> I have recently acquired a Dy4 DSM 6816, a 68000 based workstation which appears to be from the mid 80's. The machine works, I can access a ROM monitor, and boot a OS loader from the hard drive, however I have no documentation, and the Unix OS itself appears to have been wiped from it. Looking to contact anyone who knows anything about this system... I would love to find an OS installation set for it, but any information at all would be helpful. Cheers, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Mar 14 05:45:16 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <4053ABED.601@ntlworld.com> References: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4053ABED.601@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1079264715.14792.47.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 00:48, Dan Williams wrote: > >I tried, but they all cause bmptoppm to crash. (For others: the zip > >file contains four files, keyboard%d.bmp for %d from 1 thorugh 4.) > > > >[Sparkle] 1701> bmptoppm < keyboard1.bmp > keyboard1.ppm > >bmptoppm: Windows BMP, 637x825x24 > >bmptoppm: cbFix: 40 > >bmptoppm: cx: 637 > >bmptoppm: cy: 825 > >bmptoppm: cPlanes: 1 > >bmptoppm: cBitCount: 24 > >bmptoppm: warning: offBits is 54, expected 67108918 54 looks fine - offbits is the byte offset after the file header where the image data begins. The image header itself (giving width, height info etc.) is always 54 bytes in length, so an offset of 54 is quite normal, implying the image data begins right after the image header. An expected offset over 60MB in size seems extremely wrong :) > I managed to view them fine with xv under solaris, is there a problem > with bmptoppm ? Here's a theory... Run hexdump -C on the file: Bytes 0 and 1 should have the ascii characters 'BM'. Bytes 2,3,4,5 give the size in 4 byte units of the file. Bytes 6,7,8,9 are reserved - I've only ever seen these set to zero. Bytes 10,11,12,13 give the offbits value, least significant byte first. It's found 54, so is obviously reading that correctly. Bytes 14,15,16,17 are within the image header itself and give the size of the image header - 12 bytes for an OS/2 bmp file, 40 bytes for a Windows bmp, and no expected other values. Maybe this is set wrong in the bmp files Lyos created for some reason - I could see that some image decoders might be really strict about this value (and bail because offbits is less than the image header size + the file header size) whilst others might be sloppy (i.e. "if it isn't set to 12 then simply assume a 40 byte Windows header"). bmptoppm extracts the width/height/colour-depth info from the image header though, so it's obviously seems to assume Windows format and read 40 bytes at that point; looks like it only sanity-checks the header size against the offbits value after this and then breaks. I haven't got a copy of the zipfile that Lyos sent to try otherwise I'd take a look... cheers Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Mar 14 05:55:12 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:07:00 PST." <200403140307.i2E370Kp020134@spies.com> Message-ID: <200403141155.i2EBtC717989@mwave.heeltoe.com> Al Kossow wrote: > >I have R80,RA81, and RA60 scanned, will put them up >on www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/discs in the next day or two Thanks! I could really use the H7660 part... -brad From cbajpai at comcast.net Sun Mar 14 06:44:00 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c409c2$072d2100$707ba8c0@xpdesk> I heard that John bought out an Apple dealership...but that doesn't explain some of the rare prototypes he has on sale. (e.g. Apple Lisa manufacturing test card) -Chandra I've got a full set of schematics good ol' John Woodall (same bloke Sellam's mentioned)...I'd love to know where he gets his Lisa stuff from! From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Mar 14 07:45:53 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: HP gear available for trade References: <001c01c4097a$f2ac3a50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40546211.7020000@tiac.net> Ok, is is practical to get a 13037 and drive from you to me up here in MA? Jay West wrote: >I have nine 13037 controller boxes. These are the rackmount controllers that >are necessary to use 7905/7906, and 7920 drives. They MAY be used for 7925's >too, I forget, I can look up the 7925 info if need be. Each 13037 controller >box can support up to 8 drives and 2 cpu's. > >These boxes each contain the microprocessor, error control, and device >control PCA's. All have been tested thoroughly (as of tonight) with 7906 >drives and burned in with diags - they are known to be completely >functional. They have not been thoroughly cleaned and do need that, but >since I want to get rid of them I didn't address cosmetics. > >I will be keeping 3 of the units for myself for sure (and two HP-IB option >boards!). If the remaining 6 are not all claimed, I'll scavenge one of them >for a spare set of boards, power supply, etc. and pitch the shell. With each >13037 box I will include either an original manual, or a copy (depending on >how many duplicates I have) upon request. No cables will be included, but >the cables will be available with the 7906 drives (see below). I am guessing >the 13037 controller box weighs around 35 pounds. > >In a few weeks I will be offering some (about 7) 7906 drives as well. I >guess if anyone wants a drive and controller, I will wait and ship both >together. Any drives I offer will be tested and known working too. All >depends on how many of them I can get working. Let me know if you want one, >I'm starting the official list :) Expect hefty shipping charges, 7906's are >quite a bit heavier than RL02's! > >Jay West > > From cherry7866 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 14 01:47:12 2004 From: cherry7866 at yahoo.com (Cherry Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Yamaha CS-80 Synth In-Reply-To: <20040313181502.87927.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040314074712.69728.qmail@web12503.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/020647.html I just came across your old post regarding selling this -- did you ever find a buyer or put on ebay? I am interested if you still have it collecting dust ;) Let me know, thanks! Cherry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Mar 13 21:48:20 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <40539BAF.8000903@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <20040314034820.4509.qmail@web41707.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Paul... now if only someone can look at these photo's and tell me what the heck it is. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel Paul Williams wrote: der Mouse wrote: > http://geocities.com/lyosnorezel/strangekeyboard.zip > I tried, but they all cause bmptoppm to crash. It works fine for me (stock version supplied with Red Hat 9). I've converted the pictures to jpeg and put them in http://vt100.net/tmp/ Paul Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Mar 13 22:05:58 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) Message-ID: <20040314040558.64776.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Look Sellam... I'm doing the best I can... I do have linux RH9... but I am unable to connect to the internet using that box because: a.)I live with me parents (temporarily), b.) me parents only know and understand Winblows, and are currently using Winblows XP, c.) they have an ISP of goddamn AOL, for the love of god... (somebody shoot them please), d.)I don't own a domain (no money to buy one with), e.)I'm not allowed to install any compression software... so I'm stuck with winzip f.)due to a fault in the scanning software, only bitmaps (.bmp) can be used. g.)aol's "homepage" setup gives out the username and due to me need to remain hidden I cannot abide by that. Yes my name is "Lyos Gemini Norezel" but me aol account has one hell of alot more information then just me name. h.)... beginning to get the idea? I could list the obstacles all damn day and still not finish So please... try not to criticize what you don't understand... me parents and I have been fighting too many times to count... all of them about these issues... particuarly about Winblows and AOL. Gimme a break alright? I'm trying... it's not as easy as one would like to believe. Lyos Gemini Norezel <-------Sellam Wrote:-----------------> Thanks for going to all that trouble but I still won't look at them until Lyos manages to get his act together. Sheesh. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From aek at spies.com Sun Mar 14 09:50:23 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: LF: Information on Dy4 DSM 6816 Message-ID: <200403141550.i2EFoN5i016746@spies.com> I have recently acquired a Dy4 DSM 6816, a 68000 based workstation which appears to be from the mid 80's. -- Is this a Multibus system based on the original Stanford SUN cpu board? From aek at spies.com Sun Mar 14 09:52:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Paging Bob Shannon Message-ID: <200403141552.i2EFqZp9019484@spies.com> > Ok, is is practical to get a 13037 and drive from you to me up here in MA? It appears his selective mail reception is working just fine. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Mar 14 09:58:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: another HP item available calculator/computer/disc? Message-ID: <000701c409dd$257b3370$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have an HP 98041A disc interface available. This is a desktop type box that has a cable and big module that plugs into some kind of HP 98xx calculator/computer. The box has an HP-IB port on the back. As best I can tell, this box plugs into the HP-IB port of large old 14" HP drives like the 7906H, or, in the configuration I received it, the box plugs into the HP-IB port of an HP-IB optioned 13037 controller. This would allow the calculator to use non-HP-IB drives such as the 7905, 7906A-D, and 7920. This particular one was hooked up to the HP-IB port on a 13037 running to a 7906D drive. I have no need for this, it's available for trade. I have no way to test it, but based on the things I received in this load, I would hazard a guess that it probably does work. Jay West From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Mar 14 10:29:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: another HP item available calculator/computer/disc? References: <000701c409dd$257b3370$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <003701c409e1$83aaffd0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> hmmm...... write a driver for the hp 150 and use it to blow platter data to 3.5 inch discs...... not my idea of self abuse... but might be an interesting way to recover some data files.... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:58 AM Subject: another HP item available calculator/computer/disc? > I have an HP 98041A disc interface available. > > This is a desktop type box that has a cable and big module that plugs into > some kind of HP 98xx calculator/computer. The box has an HP-IB port on the > back. > > As best I can tell, this box plugs into the HP-IB port of large old 14" HP > drives like the 7906H, or, in the configuration I received it, the box plugs > into the HP-IB port of an HP-IB optioned 13037 controller. This would allow > the calculator to use non-HP-IB drives such as the 7905, 7906A-D, and 7920. > This particular one was hooked up to the HP-IB port on a 13037 running to a > 7906D drive. > > I have no need for this, it's available for trade. I have no way to test it, > but based on the things I received in this load, I would hazard a guess that > it probably does work. > > Jay West > > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 14 02:34:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 13 Mar 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > The Justice Department urged the FCC to declare that companies must > pay for any such improvements themselves, although it said companies > should be permitted to pass those expenses on to their customers. Well, in thise case, since the only "customer" for wiretap features would be the gummint, then THEY should pay for it. Make sure you all phone/fax/write when bills supporting this type of legislation comes up for a vote. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 14 02:45:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <20040314040558.64776.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Mar 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > h.)... beginning to get the idea? I could list the obstacles all damn > day and still not finish No, not at all. I don't see any "obstacles", only whining and inconsequential blathering. > So please... try not to criticize what you don't understand... me > parents and I have been fighting too many times to count... all of them > about these issues... particuarly about Winblows and AOL. Gimme a break > alright? I'm trying... it's not as easy as one would like to believe. >From the moment you started participating in this group you've bandied about ridiculous theories about electricity and your questions have generally been answerable with just the minimum of Googling (and before you protest you CAN get to Google from AOL, I've done it). When you try to get help for your problems, you seem to go out of your way to make it difficult. The problem doesn't seem to be AOL or your parents or Windows or whatever. It's you. Do some basic research and install some decent tools (of which there are many free ones available). Hide them from your parents if need be. If you insist your parents are in the way then get a job and move out or order your own phone line. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Mar 14 12:07:07 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:34:06 PST." Message-ID: <200403141807.i2EI77m19880@mwave.heeltoe.com> I believe phone switches have had this requirement for many, many years (probably since the time of the (dis)honorable senator Joseph McCarthy). -brad Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On 13 Mar 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > >> The Justice Department urged the FCC to declare that companies must >> pay for any such improvements themselves, although it said companies >> should be permitted to pass those expenses on to their customers. > >Well, in thise case, since the only "customer" for wiretap features would >be the gummint, then THEY should pay for it. > >Make sure you all phone/fax/write when bills supporting this type of >legislation comes up for a vote. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Mar 14 12:37:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps References: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200403140418.XAA09374@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16468.42612.750000.480531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: >> Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps [...] der> Yeah, right. They gonna ban ipsec? ... and PGP... (This is why PGP exists, by the way. paul !----------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Pgp: 27 81 A9 73 A6 0B B3 BE 18 A3 BF DD 1A 59 51 75 !----------------------------------------------------------------------- ! If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude ! greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us ! in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and ! lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were ! our countrymen. - Samuel Adams From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Mar 14 12:48:48 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard Answer Message-ID: <6b.244ee57b.2d860310@aol.com> The Keyboard is for a Convergent N-gine system. Modular little boxes that coupled together sideways. Also sold by Burroughs. First ones were 80186 systems. The last ones I saw were 386s. Did they ever make them in Pentiums? Paxton Astoria, OR From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Mar 14 13:03:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: HP cable identification? Message-ID: <000701c409f7$0b622510$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have a whole flock of HP cables labeled 12979-600xx. That sounds really familiar to me, but I'm drawing a blank on what these cables are for. In addition to the part number, they say "Extender Cable" on them. Based on the box they were in, I suspect they have something to do with disc drives. However, that part number doesn't show up in my 7906 manuals, I know the 7900 daisychain cable is 13212, and they aren't I/O chassis extender cables. Anyone know offhand what these cables are for? They have one standard HP edge card connector on each end. Thanks! Jay West From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Mar 14 13:08:18 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) Message-ID: On AOL upload the pictures to a screenname space and publish that location. (i.e.: http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/9845br1b.jpg ) AOL zips all multiple pics so I don't use it for that. I, too, get uncomfortable receiving zips and generally do not download them. Rarely do I open one even if it is from someone I know. AOL has gotten much better. (my opinion as a user, please no flames). Paxton Astoria, OR From egmakris at otenet.gr Sun Mar 14 08:30:36 2004 From: egmakris at otenet.gr (Evangelos G. Makris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Yamaha CS-80 Synth Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040314162945.00a49ec0@mail.otenet.gr> Hello, have you sold your CS-80 yet? If not and are considering selling it, where in the USA are you located? Evangelos. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 14 13:41:52 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Googlismic Wavelet Propagation Message-ID: Interesting that two references to an old post I made concerning the Yamaha synthesizer I listed here (before putting it on eBay - whereupon it sold to someone in the UK) are just now coming to the attention of Googlers - perhaps I'm making too much out of a co-incidental pair of posts - yet it seems to me that these "Hi There! Do you still have your NOS IBM 360/70 for sale?" type posts do tend to come in 'topic waves'.... Cyber-sociology is alive and well on Classiccmp. Cheers John PS: Now watch: in a year somebody will be brethlessly asking if the IBM mainframe sold yet.... ;} From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Mar 14 13:48:43 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Strange Keyboard (take 2) In-Reply-To: <1079264715.14792.47.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20040313071915.75387.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> <200403132150.QAA07780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <4053ABED.601@ntlworld.com> <1079264715.14792.47.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403142001.PAA26934@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> [Sparkle] 1701> bmptoppm < keyboard1.bmp > keyboard1.ppm >>> bmptoppm: warning: offBits is 54, expected 67108918 > 54 looks fine - offbits is the byte offset after the file header > where the image data begins. [...] > An expected offset over 60MB in size seems extremely wrong :) 67108918 is 0x4000036, while 54 is 0x36; I assumed, absent documentation, that the low three bytes are the offset and the high byte is some kind of flags, which is getting rolled into the same variable by the code. >> I managed to view them fine with xv under solaris, is there a >> problem with bmptoppm ? Yes, there obviously is something wrong with bmptoppm; even if it can't work, it shouldn't actually core. However, it's the only bmp-reading tool I have, and I have no documentation on BMP format to either fix it or write another. I may see if I can deduce enough from the code to fix it; this discussion has gotten me curious. > Run hexdump -C on the file: > Bytes 0 and 1 should have the ascii characters 'BM'. Check. > Bytes 2,3,4,5 give the size in 4 byte units of the file. Mismatch. Bytes 2,3,4,5 give the size in bytes (little-endian; you didn't specify which byte sex). > Bytes 6,7,8,9 are reserved - I've only ever seen these set to zero. Check. The bmptoppm code implies these are a hot-spot location. > Bytes 10,11,12,13 give the offbits value, least significant byte > first. It's found 54, so is obviously reading that correctly. "36 00 00 00" - yes. > Bytes 14,15,16,17 are within the image header itself and give the > size of the image header - 12 bytes for an OS/2 bmp file, 40 bytes > for a Windows bmp, and no expected other values. "28 00 00 00" - that's 40. > I haven't got a copy of the zipfile that Lyos sent to try otherwise > I'd take a look... I still have it. Shall we take this offlist? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Mar 14 14:18:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <16468.42612.750000.480531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200403140418.XAA09374@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16468.42612.750000.480531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200403142020.PAA27063@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps [...] >> Yeah, right. They gonna ban ipsec? > ... and PGP... (This is why PGP exists, by the way. True enough - though PGP is not nearly as well suited to protecting most forms of Internet communication as IPsec is. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Mar 14 12:58:41 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: LF: Information on Dy4 DSM 6816 Message-ID: <20040314185841.RMY10657@mailhost.attcanada.net> At 07:50 14/03/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >I have recently acquired a Dy4 DSM 6816, a 68000 based workstation which >appears to be from the mid 80's. > >-- > >Is this a Multibus system based on the original Stanford SUN cpu board? It's a VME bus system. I can send pictures of the system and it's boards if that helps - right now I know nothing about it other than physical appearance. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Mar 14 15:35:03 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: References: <20040314031544.GC7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040314213502.GD7182@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Sun, Mar 14, 2004 at 12:34:06AM -0800: > Well, in thise case, since the only "customer" for wiretap features would > be the gummint, then THEY should pay for it. Either way, the consumer pays for it. I prefer the concept of billing the politicians for it instead and having a law passed stating that citizens have the right to evesdrop on, and tap the phone lines and internet connections of, all politicians---and political appointees, which would include the right of the citizens to view video feeds from web cams in politicians' offices and hotel rooms. As long as they're in office, they should be fully accountable---no secrets of any sort from the public. There needs to be a web site where people can go to and do this to the politicians of their choosing, including viewing and listening too any of the rooms of the white house, senate, etc., 24 hours a day, every day of the year, as well as all of their limousines, Camp David, etc. It would probably send chills up the spines of politigoons if large numbers of citizens started demanding this---which the apathetic masses won't do, of course, just like they won't do the patriotic thing and burn effigies of politicians as the politicians drive past on Fourth of July parages, or angrily shout frightening things at the elected scoundrels as they drive past. -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 14 19:04:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: HP cable identification? In-Reply-To: <000701c409f7$0b622510$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040314200409.008146c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:03 PM 3/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >I have a whole flock of HP cables labeled 12979-600xx. That sounds really >familiar to me, The 12979 PN sounds real familar to me too. I'm about 99.5% certain that it's something for the HP 1000 computer. I THINK 12797 is the IO expansion chassis. If so, this might be the cable that connects it to the main CPU chassis. Joe but I'm drawing a blank on what these cables are for. In >addition to the part number, they say "Extender Cable" on them. Based on the >box they were in, I suspect they have something to do with disc drives. >However, that part number doesn't show up in my 7906 manuals, I know the >7900 daisychain cable is 13212, and they aren't I/O chassis extender cables. >Anyone know offhand what these cables are for? They have one standard HP >edge card connector on each end. > >Thanks! > >Jay West > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Mar 14 19:30:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: HP cable identification? References: <3.0.6.32.20040314200409.008146c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000501c40a2d$18d317f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Turns out it WAS for an I/O extender, 12979, which is the extender for the 21MX. I'm used to thinking of an extender as a 2155 (2100 version). My bad. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: HP cable identification? > At 01:03 PM 3/14/04 -0600, you wrote: > >I have a whole flock of HP cables labeled 12979-600xx. That sounds really > >familiar to me, > > The 12979 PN sounds real familar to me too. I'm about 99.5% certain that > it's something for the HP 1000 computer. I THINK 12797 is the IO expansion > chassis. If so, this might be the cable that connects it to the main CPU > chassis. > > Joe > > > > but I'm drawing a blank on what these cables are for. In > >addition to the part number, they say "Extender Cable" on them. Based on the > >box they were in, I suspect they have something to do with disc drives. > >However, that part number doesn't show up in my 7906 manuals, I know the > >7900 daisychain cable is 13212, and they aren't I/O chassis extender cables. > >Anyone know offhand what these cables are for? They have one standard HP > >edge card connector on each end. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Jay West > > > > > > From bdwheele at indiana.edu Sun Mar 14 20:55:54 2004 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: FS: SparcServer 1000 & SparcStorage Array] Message-ID: <1079319354.20229.1.camel@thor> I've got the R/C Truck bug again and I need to thin out my collection a bit for some cash. [for anyone who cares, I'm looking at a Team Associated RC10 GT http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCLU0&P=0] Here's the system I'm selling: 2x 60MHz SuperSPARC Modules (501-2519) 256M RAM (8x 32M) CDROM & DAT 1G Drive in SparcServer 18x 1G Drives in Storage Array Disk Array Host Adaptor (501-2553) Network Peripherals FDDI Card Terms: I WILL NOT SHIP THIS HEAVY MONSTER! I'm in Bloomington, IN. I'm asking $200 or best reasonable offer by Fri, Mar 19. I've also got a SGI 4D/35 with several drives which would make a good parts machine, an old 320H IBM RS/6000 machine, and an Amiga video toaster 2000 card if anyone is interested. Brian From dave at coldfusion.fsnet.co.uk Sun Mar 14 18:02:39 2004 From: dave at coldfusion.fsnet.co.uk (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd References: Message-ID: <008f01c40a20$d62b7520$6a1787d9@agamemnon> > On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, David Williams wrote: > > > Anybody got a set of schematics for an Apple Lisa IO board? Must be the > > eariler 2/5 version (Part No. 620-0117) Had a look on the net but can only > > find diagrams for the later 2/10 board. > Hi Folks! Thanks for all the replies :) Will probably buy one of those IO boards from John Woodall. However, before I do, I'd like to confirm that its the IO board that's duff on this machine. Anybody got access to a Lisa who could tell me what it does when powered up with out the IO board installed? This Lisa with the board installed powers up to a black screen with occasional random white pixels. kind of like a snow effect. No beeps or other signs of activity. With the board removed, I get a grey screen with white menu bar. '3A' is displayed in the top right corner. This appears for about 1 sec then the machine appears to reset, displaying garbage. The cycle then repeats continuously. I'm pretty sure its the IO board at fault as the battery had leaked. However, if anybody can confirm that the above is supposed to happen with the IO board removed, it will make me feel a lot happier before I start throwing money at this thing :) Cheers, Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Sun Mar 14 15:38:25 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: HP cable identification? In-Reply-To: <000701c409f7$0b622510$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200403142138.i2ELcQ9Q023949@mail.bcpl.net> On 14 Mar 2004 at 13:03, Jay West wrote: > I have a whole flock of HP cables labeled 12979-600xx. My "HP 1000 Computers Hardware Data" book from 1978 has a listing for the "12979B Dual-Port I/O Extender" for M/E/F-series computers. There are several cables listed as part of this product: 12979-60024 I/O data cable 12979-60008 I/O control cable 12979-60025 power control cable A later version of this book (1982) lists an additional cable number: 12979-60028 I/O data cable > In addition to the part number, they say "Extender Cable" on them. That seems to confirm the above. > ...they aren't I/O chassis extender cables. Ummm.... > Thanks! You're welcome. -- Dave From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 14 18:00:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <200403141807.i2EI77m19880@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > I believe phone switches have had this requirement for many, many years > (probably since the time of the (dis)honorable senator Joseph McCarthy). No they haven't. Sure, the feature exists in more sophisticated phone systems, but it's never been there as a government requirement for ease of wire-tapping. > >> The Justice Department urged the FCC to declare that companies must > >> pay for any such improvements themselves, although it said companies > >> should be permitted to pass those expenses on to their customers. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 15 08:09:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: ANNOUNCE: www.pdp11.nl is back up! Message-ID: Hi, Its my please to announce that after some time of fiddling with HDA's, dead electronics boards and several incomplete backup sets, I think I have the site back up completely, with no or only a few files missing. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 15 08:23:53 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps References: <200403141807.i2EI77m19880@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16469.48249.328000.566484@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Brad Parker wrote: >> I believe phone switches have had this requirement for many, many >> years (probably since the time of the (dis)honorable senator >> Joseph McCarthy). Vintage> No they haven't. Sure, the feature exists in more Vintage> sophisticated phone systems, but it's never been there as a Vintage> government requirement for ease of wire-tapping. Sure it has, CALEA has been the law of the land for some time now. Not going back as far as the great unlamented Joe, though; back then it wasn't that hard and no special laws were needed. Besides, there was only one phone company and it was cooperative... paul From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Mar 15 08:43:26 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: ANNOUNCE: www.pdp11.nl is back up! References: Message-ID: <000701c40a9b$f22c1380$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:09 AM Subject: ANNOUNCE: www.pdp11.nl is back up! > Hi, > > Its my please to announce that after some time of fiddling with > HDA's, dead electronics boards and several incomplete backup > sets, I think I have the site back up completely, with no or > only a few files missing. > > Cheers, > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > The VAXlab link didn't work for me. THe archive did though. brian From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Mar 15 08:35:50 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: FS: SparcServer 1000 & SparcStorage Array] In-Reply-To: <1079319354.20229.1.camel@thor> References: <1079319354.20229.1.camel@thor> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315093418.02539f08@mail.n.ml.org> Too far away for me, but the Team Associated RC10 GT is cool. Used to have a Super Blackfoot and a Kyosho King Cab a few years back. Let me know how it goes. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:55 PM 3/14/2004, you wrote: >I've got the R/C Truck bug again and I need to thin out my collection a >bit for some cash. > >[for anyone who cares, I'm looking at a Team Associated RC10 GT >http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCLU0&P=0] > >Here's the system I'm selling: > >2x 60MHz SuperSPARC Modules (501-2519) >256M RAM (8x 32M) >CDROM & DAT >1G Drive in SparcServer >18x 1G Drives in Storage Array >Disk Array Host Adaptor (501-2553) >Network Peripherals FDDI Card > > >Terms: >I WILL NOT SHIP THIS HEAVY MONSTER! I'm in Bloomington, IN. >I'm asking $200 or best reasonable offer by Fri, Mar 19. > > >I've also got a SGI 4D/35 with several drives which would make a good >parts machine, an old 320H IBM RS/6000 machine, and an Amiga video >toaster 2000 card if anyone is interested. > > >Brian ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From kth at srv.net Mon Mar 15 08:59:20 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: R80/RA81 diagnostic experience? In-Reply-To: <16467.43955.43000.184847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200403091243.i29CgUJE012130@huey.classiccmp.org> <1079215217.8307.46.camel@weka.localdomain> <16467.43955.43000.184847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4055C4C8.7090606@srv.net> Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>>"Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Jules> ...I'm totally confused by that - the sensor showed no signs of > Jules> dirt. It hadn't worked in place in the drive, and nor did it > Jules> work in isolation on the bench at first. Yet it showed signs > Jules> of *some* life when originally in place within the drive, so > Jules> there obviously wasn't a cable break. > >One guess would be a dirty connector. Unplugging and replugging can >rub off oxide that may have accumulated over the years. > > Or banging on the sensor dislodged the dust that it had collected. The card you were using to test with may have scraped the lens clean. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 02:08:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: More interesting reading on the Apollo 11 LM Message-ID: http://www.unt.edu/UNT/departments/CC/Benchmarks/benchmarks_html/sepoct95/lunar.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Mon Mar 15 10:10:20 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 M30 boot problem Message-ID: Hello- My VAXstation 3100 M30 will not boot up anymore. It worked fine up until yesterday. All I get on the screen when I turn it on is this: < That's all. Nothing else. It will not even POST and bring up the console. I thought it might have something to do with the external SCSI connection but I'm not sure. Anyone know what is causing this? -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 15 10:25:27 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: More interesting reading on the Apollo 11 LM References: Message-ID: <16469.55543.795000.718865@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> http://www.unt.edu/UNT/departments/CC/Benchmarks/benchmarks_html/sepoct95/lunar.htm Amazing. I suppose they'd compile by hand because compilers didn't optimize well enough to make the code fit. But I wonder why they'd use a language already obsolete for a decade? I was hoping to see the story about the sign error, as described by Dijkstra. Didn't see it. (The story is that there was a code bug in the LM software, not found until close to the Apollo 11 flight -- they had the sign of gravity wrong. Dijkstra mentions it in an interview, having heard it from the one of the senior people involved in the project. See http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/video.html) paul From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 02:38:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <16469.48249.328000.566484@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Vintage> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > >> I believe phone switches have had this requirement for many, many > >> years (probably since the time of the (dis)honorable senator > >> Joseph McCarthy). > > Vintage> No they haven't. Sure, the feature exists in more > Vintage> sophisticated phone systems, but it's never been there as a > Vintage> government requirement for ease of wire-tapping. > > Sure it has, CALEA has been the law of the land for some time now. > Not going back as far as the great unlamented Joe, though; back then > it wasn't that hard and no special laws were needed. Besides, there > was only one phone company and it was cooperative... CALEA is a carrier-specific regulation (i.e. AT&T, Verizon, the Bells, etc.) and NOT a standard for phone system implementation. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 02:39:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: More interesting reading on the Apollo 11 LM In-Reply-To: <16469.55543.795000.718865@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > I suppose they'd compile by hand because compilers didn't optimize > well enough to make the code fit. But I wonder why they'd use a > language already obsolete for a decade? I found that rather bizarre as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 15 10:42:19 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 M30 boot problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4055DCEB.9030802@atarimuseum.com> You check and reseat everything? Might be memory issue, just a guess. Curt Van Mersbergen, Ken wrote: >Hello- > >My VAXstation 3100 M30 will not boot up anymore. It worked fine up until >yesterday. All I get on the screen when I turn it on is this: > > >< > > > > > >That's all. Nothing else. It will not even POST and bring up the console. >I thought it might have something to do with the external SCSI connection >but I'm not sure. > >Anyone know what is causing this? > > >-Ken V. > > > > > >*************************************************************** >This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >*************************************************************** > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 15 11:15:06 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? Message-ID: <200403151715.i2FHF6V02873@mwave.heeltoe.com> Does anyone have any experience purchasing new 9-track tapes? (seems crazy to do such a thing but I want to load some up and I thought a new tape would have more stable media/binder/whatever and not break down like an old tape might) I ordered some 1200' reels from a company in california as an experiment (the tapes cost more than the drive :-). I wonder if, in fact, they are "new". Does 3M still make 1/2" tape on reels? -brad From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Mon Mar 15 11:25:11 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? In-Reply-To: <200403151715.i2FHF6V02873@mwave.heeltoe.com> from Brad Parker at Mar "15, " 2004 "12:15:06" pm Message-ID: <200403151725.KAA04128@atlantis.clogic-int.com> 1/2" tape on reels is still the norm for bouncing tracks and final mixdown from a 2" reel to reel system in analog recording. I would search for some high quality audio type tape (rated for 30 inches per second) on a site like www.musiciansfriend.com or www.sweetwater.com I use BASF Gold in my studio, and computer room. Works very nicely. -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 15 12:03:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? References: <200403151715.i2FHF6V02873@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403151725.KAA04128@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: <16469.61418.212000.308673@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Willis writes: John> 1/2" tape on reels is still the norm for bouncing tracks and John> final mixdown from a 2" reel to reel system in analog John> recording. I would search for some high quality audio type tape John> (rated for 30 inches per second) on a site like John> www.musiciansfriend.com or www.sweetwater.com John> I use BASF Gold in my studio, and computer room. Works very John> nicely. (Analog) audio tape and digital data tapes always have been very different. It's conceivable that audio tape would work for this, but don't count on it. paul From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 15 12:06:28 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:05 2005 Subject: ANNOUNCE: www.pdp11.nl is back up! In-Reply-To: <000701c40a9b$f22c1380$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > The VAXlab link didn't work for me. THe archive did though. Fixed. One thing at a time here ;-) --f From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Mar 15 12:13:42 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? References: <200403151715.i2FHF6V02873@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <001401c40ab9$416322a0$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Brad Parker" > > Does anyone have any experience purchasing new 9-track tapes? > To the best of my knowledge, no-one produces tapes anymore. The last one was e-Mag in Wales. Consequently, "new" tapes are unused, but not "fresh from the mill" Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 01-03-2004 From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Mar 15 12:22:19 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? In-Reply-To: <200403151725.KAA04128@atlantis.clogic-int.com> References: <200403151725.KAA04128@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, John Willis wrote: > 1/2" tape on reels is still the norm for bouncing > tracks and final mixdown from a 2" reel to reel system in analog > recording. I would search for some high quality audio > type tape (rated for 30 inches per second) on a site > like www.musiciansfriend.com or www.sweetwater.com > > I use BASF Gold in my studio, and computer room. Works > very nicely. I'm in awe. Speaking as a life-long musician, studio owner / builder / architect and former Chief Engineer of MGM Studios AS WELL AS a crazed computer collector with several working 9-trk drives.... i have one sardonic, sarcastic, but mostly tongue-in-cheek question: John, old buddy, do you have even the slightest concept of the fundamentals of tape recording? Because if you do, are you actually *trying* to cause some poor sod a vanload of grief? I'll save the long treatise on coercivity, bias points, oxide and binder formulations and tape lubrication.... So what actually prompted you to recommend Audio Tape for digital use?? And, yes I've tried, and no, not only does it work poorly or not at all, it's hell on the 9trk drive.... (think: sapphire scrapers vs Ampex 456) I really am boggled that BASF is working on your drives - how do you reconcile the operating points??? How long do you think the data will last??? Nothing I ever tried would even write/read with any reliability at all, on various Kennedys and Ciphers and a TS11. This harks back to the old 'slit-video' cheap 1/4 bulk tape scams in the 70s. Also I knew several guys in the late 60s who were slitting 800 BPI computer tape and selling *that* for home audio use...! A few thousand feet and your head-gap resembles the San Andreas Fault... not to mention 1 good and one raggedy edge... ;} And I buy lots from Sweetwater - have been since Chuck used to answer the phone himself. BUT: I.M.(not so)H.O. - DO NOT use 1/2" audio tape, of any manufacturer, for your 9trk!!!!!!!!!!!! NOS, or used-once, tape is easy to find, new tape is still being made, is it not?? Cheers John (Swami Audionanda) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 15 13:25:52 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040315112029.E99975@newshell.lmi.net> > On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > I believe phone switches have had this requirement for many, many years > > (probably since the time of the (dis)honorable senator Joseph McCarthy). On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > No they haven't. Sure, the feature exists in more sophisticated phone > systems, but it's never been there as a government requirement for ease of > wire-tapping. Well,... JEdger's people had to climb phone poles and stuff, even when dealing with TPC. Wasn't it the "Digital Telephony Act" (during Clinton's time) that mandated that phone systems had to provide "dial-in" remote monitoring capability to the guvmint? > > >> The Justice Department urged the FCC to declare that companies must > > >> pay for any such improvements themselves, although it said companies > > >> should be permitted to pass those expenses on to their customers. ... and who DIDN'T expect it to be added to your phone bill? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 15 14:36:12 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: ANNOUNCE: www.pdp11.nl is back up! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c40acd$282519b0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > > The VAXlab link didn't work for me. THe archive did though. > Fixed. One thing at a time here ;-) Whereas for me the VAXlab link seems to be fine and the archive says: This site is not yet configured, please try again later. and appears to have last been modified on 11-APR-2002. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 06:47:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: OT: Justice, FBI Seek Rules for Internet Taps In-Reply-To: <20040315112029.E99975@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > Wasn't it the "Digital Telephony Act" (during Clinton's time) > that mandated that phone systems had to provide "dial-in" remote > monitoring capability to the guvmint? Yeah, that whole Clipper Chip nonsense is what made me turn on that stupid bastard. Don't mess with my god damn right to privacy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 06:50:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: SCSI Zip drives Message-ID: For all the folks who were interested in purchasing a SCSI Zip drive from me, my apologies for the delay. I'm still trying to get them tested. Please continue in your mode of patience. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 15 14:48:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub Message-ID: Hi folks, This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100 hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one of the joins: http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? Cheers all, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 07:11:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes > of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100 > hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I > find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things > is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one > of the joins: > > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg > > I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? Is this a 3Com OfficeConnect Dual Speed Hub 8? If so, I posted about this very problem not two months ago. I was told to replace the cap. Not surprisingly, I never got around to doing it (it's still on the list o' things to do) so I can't tell you if that fixed the problem (mine was more of a loud hiss) or not. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Mar 15 15:13:07 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40561C63.7090804@gifford.co.uk> Witchy wrote: > On dismantling I > find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things > is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one > of the joins: > > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg Great domain name! > I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? Yup, that's a duff electrolytic all right. I recently replaced 15 like that one in a PC motherboard. The lowest was at 300 OHMS! The hardest part is getting the solder out of the holes when there's a nice solid ground plane to take all the heat away from the iron. I got new capacitors from Farnell, about 50p each. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 15 15:18:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: ANNOUNCE: www.pdp11.nl is back up! In-Reply-To: <002c01c40acd$282519b0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > This site is not yet configured, please try again later. > > and appears to have last been modified on 11-APR-2002. yeah, about 15 minutes after the announcement, my bandwidth in use jumped to and stayed at 98%. I'll have to find another, permanent solution for that, like an extra DSL or something. --f From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 15 16:44:46 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message "Witchy" wrote: > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg > > I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? "On its way out" is probably the understatement of the year. I say replace it. Check all the caps carefully - if the cover is bulging or there's brown sludge on the top of it (or - shock horror - leaking out underneath it), then replace it. I've had good results with the Panasonic low-ESR 105C electrolytics that Farnell are selling. They're usually a bit bigger than the original caps (IME) and they're usually near the top of the price range, but they should last a good long while. Is there any branding on the cap in the photo? I had to recap a Grundig SkyDigibox not long ago - nasty little beggar. Full of cheapo Taiwanese capacitors (no offence intended to the Taiwanese) - "TAYEH" or something like that. I think I spent a good twenty minutes hacking off all the white silicone goop that Grundig so helpfully covered the capacitors in. Bletch. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire- From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 15 18:08:31 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Sellam, > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 15 March 2004 13:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub > > Is this a 3Com OfficeConnect Dual Speed Hub 8? If so, I > posted about this very problem not two months ago. I was > told to replace the cap. Not surprisingly, I never got > around to doing it (it's still on the list o' > things to do) so I can't tell you if that fixed the problem > (mine was more of a loud hiss) or not. Yeah, I suppose you could say it was a loud hiss. Certainly enough to be Very Annoying, even louder than the 2 machines that run here all the time! 2 months ago was the time of my Great Classiccmp Folder Meltdown so I wouldn't be surprised if your message was in the lot that got lost before classiccmpers came to the rescue :) A year's worth of messages to go through - yay. Still, I'll blame Office 2003 for changing folder behaviour! I need to get this fixed so I'll report back whether it works or not. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 15 18:12:15 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <40561C63.7090804@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 15 March 2004 21:13 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub > > > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg > > Great domain name! :oD It had to be done once I discovered it hadn't been taken...it's the place I host my ebay pictures for sales :) > The hardest part is getting the solder out of the holes when > there's a nice solid ground plane to take all the heat away > from the iron. Fortunately with this one there won't be such a problem so replacement will be easy and I can get my VAXen and DEC3000 back on the air.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 15 15:12:07 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: References: <40561C63.7090804@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20040316021053.SNJY2607.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball > > Sent: 15 March 2004 21:13 > > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub > > > > > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg > > > > Great domain name! > > :oD > > It had to be done once I discovered it hadn't been taken...it's the place I > host my ebay pictures for sales :) > Adrian/Witchy Beauiful photo of this swelled up electrolytic capacitor. :-) What is that digital photo camera? The 7 legged "transistor" is a efficient regulator IC switcher that down converts input voltage to specific voltage. Good to about 1 amp or so with little heatsinking. That whistle is the noise of that regulator switcher it works at high freq. They runs too high freqs to hear but when they get loaded down or bad caps, they decrease in PWM (more ON time) trying to keep voltage up (more power transfer, then u can hear the noise. The swelled up cap is already GONE btw. I have seen all descriptionss of failed caps. 1. that looks fine and clean but ESR is totally gone, are *most common*, hence ESR meter is a must. 2, leaking either end, some types of electrolytes is corrosive & stinky to heavens (1 year old rotten fish) when heated. 3. Swelled up or split top or uncorked rubber bung. 4. Bad cap that tests good but no good, that's rare few and diffcult to find. 5. Plain exploded spewed brown fluff and shreds of spiraled ribbons everywhere. Dipped blue or yellow disks caps (1KV and up) does vent cloud of pink smoke. I was amazed when I saw it go. Cheers, Wizard > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Mar 15 21:14:37 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Magazines available (SF Bay Area) Message-ID: <000001c40b04$d0d32610$947ba8c0@p933> Hello All, I've got a large pile of magazines that I'm getting rid of. If you're interested in any of these they are yours for the asking (or for shipping/packing if you aren't local.) If I can't find any takers by Wednesday 3/22 then it's off to the recycler. What I've got is: PC Magazine: Jan 1985 through Dec. 19, 1995 (11 years), with only 2 missing in 1992. PC World: 1985 through Dec., 1994 (10 years), with some missing issues in 1987 and 1988. Personal Computing: April 1985 through August 1990, and May 1993 through April 2000. There may be a few more or a few less. This was a quick-scan inventory. Please let me know if you'd like any of them. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 14:29:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Magazines available (SF Bay Area) In-Reply-To: <000001c40b04$d0d32610$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > PC Magazine: Jan 1985 through Dec. 19, 1995 (11 years), with only 2 > missing in 1992. > > PC World: 1985 through Dec., 1994 (10 years), with some > missing issues in 1987 and 1988. > > Personal Computing: April 1985 through August 1990, and May 1993 through > April 2000. It would be a damn shame if any of these got tossed. But I suspect they will find a home. Make sure you ship via USPS Bound Printed Matter rate as that will be the cheapest (about $10-15 per box). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 16:05:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! Message-ID: Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this preliminary announcement. VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July 16-17 at Sun Microsystems's Burlington, Massachusetts, campus. Note: these dates are FRIDAY and SATURDAY. A break from the traditional VCF weekend but one that was necessitated by matters outside my control. At any rate, you take a day off work and have all day Sunday to relax. I'll hopefully have confirmed dates by the end of the week. In the meantime, you can at least REGISTER AS AN EXHIBITOR: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php (note: rules not yet updated) ...or perhaps you'd like to REGISTER AS A VENDOR: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php The event is being completely sponsored by Sun and will feature several talks from Sun employees on various aspects of Sun's history. This event is likely to be BIG. Possibly rivalling the main VCF in Sillycon Valley. Sorry for the long delay but this is really a go now! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 00:35:01 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! References: Message-ID: <002501c40b20$cf646a20$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sellam; I'm really excited about VCF east. I am actually thinking I might be able to make this one! Just so you're aware though, you didn't have to doublepost to cctech, one post to cctalk would have automatically gone to cctech as well :) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" ; "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! > > Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this preliminary announcement. > > VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July 16-17 at Sun > Microsystems's Burlington, Massachusetts, campus. Note: these dates are > FRIDAY and SATURDAY. A break from the traditional VCF weekend but one > that was necessitated by matters outside my control. At any rate, you > take a day off work and have all day Sunday to relax. > > I'll hopefully have confirmed dates by the end of the week. > > In the meantime, you can at least REGISTER AS AN EXHIBITOR: > > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php > > (note: rules not yet updated) > > ...or perhaps you'd like to REGISTER AS A VENDOR: > > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php > > The event is being completely sponsored by Sun and will feature several > talks from Sun employees on various aspects of Sun's history. This event > is likely to be BIG. Possibly rivalling the main VCF in Sillycon Valley. > > Sorry for the long delay but this is really a go now! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From kelly at catcorner.org Mon Mar 15 11:51:25 2004 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B935@mail.catcorner.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Sent: 3/15/2004 12:15 PM > Subject: purchasing new 9-track tapes? > > > Does anyone have any experience purchasing new 9-track tapes? I haven't purchased any new in years, but if anyone needs tapes and would be willing to risk used, I have several hundred here. I have it in 3 different spool sizes, with and without write rings. Most are 6250 CPI certified. Make an offer. Shipping would be from 07848. USPS media mail is very inexpensive. Kelly From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Mar 15 16:32:10 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315172122.025353f0@mail.n.ml.org> Ab-so-friggin-lutely. Bad, buldging, stained cap ='s bad cap. Same damned thing happened on a 4 port NetGear Router I had and an ABIT KT7-A motherboard. With the ABIT, it was a known problem to the point where 3 shops cropped up in the US just to replace the bad caps. These were termed by ABIT as unit repair technical facilities for their Customer Service and Technical Support teams since ABIT apparently were cheap bastards and made, oh, 100,000 of those boards with that issue with the same faulty caps. NetGear is known for being cheap and a similar cap as the one you pictured, blew in the 4 port router I had. Their tech support sucked and one of these days, I'll just replace the damned cap myself. Good luck doing it. -John Boffemmyer IV At 03:48 PM 3/15/2004, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes >of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100 >hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I >find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things >is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one >of the joins: > >http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg > >I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? > >Cheers all, > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 15 19:03:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Free stuff on the Vintage Computer Marketplace Message-ID: Free items found on the VCM: Amstrad PLC PCW-8512 (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=469 For pickup: Complete Mac IIsi System (US) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=436 Apricot PC (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=111 IBM 5360 (US) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=118 For pickup: Compaq Portable II fixer-upper (US) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=437 Altos Computer Systems ACS-8000 (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=467 TI Explorer Fiber Optic Monitor Cables (US) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=103 Digital Equipment Corporation BA42 (US) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=85 Hewlett-Packard 6942A (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=470 International Business Machines 8514 (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=457 Diablo Systems Incorporated 630 (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=468 Digital Equipment Corporation LN03R (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=458 Owner's Manual for the 7942 and 7946 Disc/Tape Drives (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=461 Owner's manual for Series 80 I/O ROM (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=462 IBM PC-DOS version 2.10 Manual Only/Box (US) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=299 Hewlett-Packard 9835A (UK) http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=471 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 06:35:31 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick Message-ID: Hi folks, Had an email from a lucky sod who's got his paws on a C240 Atari Video Machine but the power brick is bust/broken/knackered/fubar/nixed. Anyone have one of these things or access to the schematics? He thinks it's a 16V input but isn't entirely sure so he won't touch it until he knows more.... All the links on atarimuseum.com are b0rked..... TIA! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 16 07:08:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up a couple of rack mount computers last week. Most of them were made by Harris and Texas Micro and are MOL standard passive backplace type stuff. However one of them was made by Kontron and it has a very strange power connector. It's a black cylinder about 1 1/4" in diameter and about 1 1/2" long that sticks out of the chassis. The back half of the cylinder is threaded so it appears that the mating connector screws onto it. The front portion of the cylinder is divided lenghtwise into five segments. Four of the sements have holes in them with a male connector pin resessed into the holes. I opened the chassis and found that it was marked as being built to operate off of 72 VDC power and that all four connecotr pins are wired tot he PSU. Is anyone familar with the type of connector or why or where they use 72 VDC power? The computer doesn't look like anything exceptional. It has a 10 MHz 286 CPU and uses a 9" CRT in it for the monitor. The only thing of real interest in it was a GPIB card. This one was made by INES (IIRC) in Germany. I've never heard of this brand before. The chassis does have one odd feature. The motherboard sits crossways in it and there are cables that plug into the back panel connectors of the various cards (they're now on the RH side of the computer since the MB is sideways) and run around to the back of the computer and connect to connectors there. Joe From cbajpai at comcast.net Tue Mar 16 07:36:29 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40b5b$b07d55f0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Awesome!...I'm looking forward to it. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help! I'm also looking to meeting the other list members. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:06 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this preliminary announcement. VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July 16-17 at Sun Microsystems's Burlington, Massachusetts, campus. Note: these dates are FRIDAY and SATURDAY. A break from the traditional VCF weekend but one that was necessitated by matters outside my control. At any rate, you take a day off work and have all day Sunday to relax. I'll hopefully have confirmed dates by the end of the week. In the meantime, you can at least REGISTER AS AN EXHIBITOR: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php (note: rules not yet updated) ...or perhaps you'd like to REGISTER AS A VENDOR: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php The event is being completely sponsored by Sun and will feature several talks from Sun employees on various aspects of Sun's history. This event is likely to be BIG. Possibly rivalling the main VCF in Sillycon Valley. Sorry for the long delay but this is really a go now! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From henk.stegeman at shell.com Tue Mar 16 07:13:39 2004 From: henk.stegeman at shell.com (Stegeman, Henk HJ SITI-ITPSNE) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Searching for IBM System/7 items Message-ID: <6A15E72BE8E3D44494D6BDAF3C388E0E02B0BFE7@rijpat-s-346.europe.shell.com> > Hi, > > Anyone on this list who can help me with any IBM System/7 items ? > (Hardware, software, manuals etc). > > The IBM system/7 was a real-time plant automation computer in the early > seventies. I am currently restoring an old S/7 to working condition but > I am still missing allot of software and doc of this system to complete > this product with success. > > Regards > > > Henk Stegeman > IBM S/7 restorer. From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Tue Mar 16 08:00:20 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315172122.025353f0@mail.n.ml.org> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315172122.025353f0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ... three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had that happen. Paul On Mon, 2004-03-15 at 16:32, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Ab-so-friggin-lutely. Bad, buldging, stained cap ='s bad cap. Same damned > thing happened on a 4 port NetGear Router I had and an ABIT KT7-A > motherboard. With the ABIT, it was a known problem to the point where 3 > shops cropped up in the US just to replace the bad caps. These were termed > by ABIT as unit repair technical facilities for their Customer Service and > Technical Support teams since ABIT apparently were cheap bastards and made, > oh, 100,000 of those boards with that issue with the same faulty caps. > NetGear is known for being cheap and a similar cap as the one you pictured, > blew in the 4 port router I had. Their tech support sucked and one of these > days, I'll just replace the damned cap myself. Good luck doing it. > > -John Boffemmyer IV > > At 03:48 PM 3/15/2004, you wrote: > >Hi folks, > > > >This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes > >of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100 > >hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I > >find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things > >is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one > >of the joins: > > > >http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg > > > >I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? > > > >Cheers all, > > > >-- > >Adrian/Witchy > >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 16 08:20:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315172122.025353f0@mail.n.ml.org> <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <20040316142017.GA811@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:00:20AM -0600, Paul Berger wrote: > I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ... > three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of > the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had > that happen. I repaired two embedded Intel/AMD boards down here with the same issue... Unfortunately, one went back to its old behavior of locking up as if overheating. :-( I pulled the caps from an ordinary dead motherboard... for some reason, we don't stock 1000uF 6.3VDC caps... the lowest voltage (and smallest package size) we have is 16VDC. Too large to fit (mechanical clearance issue in a non-standard enclosure). I've also seen plenty of motherboards back in the States in a similar condition. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-Mar-2004 02:59 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -49.6 F (-45.4 C) Windchill -110.5 F (-79.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.6 kts Grid 010 Barometer 673.4 mb (10876. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Mar 16 08:21:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40570D5A.2060201@atarimuseum.com> Hi Adrian, Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the Atari Museum: http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/videomusic.html You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side A & B for the schematics for the Video Music. Curt Witchy wrote: >Hi folks, > >Had an email from a lucky sod who's got his paws on a C240 Atari Video >Machine but the power brick is bust/broken/knackered/fubar/nixed. > >Anyone have one of these things or access to the schematics? He thinks it's >a 16V input but isn't entirely sure so he won't touch it until he knows >more.... > >All the links on atarimuseum.com are b0rked..... > >TIA! > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Mar 16 08:22:29 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200403160622290537.0E6C3F83@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 16-Mar-04 at 08:08 Joe R. wrote: >I picked up a couple of rack mount computers last week. Most of them were >made by Harris and Texas Micro and are MOL standard passive backplace type >stuff. However one of them was made by Kontron and it has a very strange >power connector. It's a black cylinder about 1 1/4" in diameter and about 1 >1/2" long that sticks out of the chassis. The back half of the cylinder is >threaded so it appears that the mating connector screws onto it. The front >portion of the cylinder is divided lenghtwise into five segments. Four of >the sements have holes in them with a male connector pin resessed into the >holes. I opened the chassis and found that it was marked as being built to That sounds like a common MIL-C-5015 series connector. I could probably find a mate for it in a few minutes. >operate off of 72 VDC power and that all four connecotr pins are wired tot >he PSU. Is anyone familar with the type of connector or why or where they >use 72 VDC power? The computer doesn't look like anything exceptional. It 72VDC is frequently used in diesel-electric railroad locomotives. It is possible that this system was designed to work in one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 08:37:29 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: <40570D5A.2060201@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine > power brick > > Hi Adrian, > > Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the Atari Museum: > > http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid > eomusic.html > > You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side A > & B for the schematics for the Video Music. Hi Curt, That's the page I was talking about - all the links including the pictures are dead.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 08:38:38 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: <40570D5A.2060201@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine > power brick > > Hi Adrian, > > Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the Atari Museum: > > http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid > eomusic.html > > You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side A > & B for the schematics for the Video Music. *edit* no they're not, I just refreshed my page cache and they're back.....was there a problem with that page or something? No matter :) Thanks! From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Tue Mar 16 08:42:35 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick Message-ID: Adrian- Try this one: http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/videomusic.html -Ken V. -----Original Message----- From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:37 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine > power brick > > Hi Adrian, > > Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the Atari Museum: > > http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid > eomusic.html > > You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side A > & B for the schematics for the Video Music. Hi Curt, That's the page I was talking about - all the links including the pictures are dead.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 16 09:07:30 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: > I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ... > three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of > the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had > that happen. > The cap failure is due to a formulation error. The formua was stolen from a competeing cap mfr, and they got it just a little bit wrong. There was a big write up about this when it was first discovered. g. From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Mar 16 09:48:01 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315172122.025353f0@mail.n.ml.org> <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <405721B1.3030904@charter.net> Actually this is an industry wide problem. It's well documented that a certain Tawainese company made a ton of bad caps that have ended up in everything from Sun workstations to GM electronic modules. Dell recalled a ton of stuff due to the cap problem. Paul Berger wrote: >I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ... >three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of >the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had >that happen. > >Paul > >On Mon, 2004-03-15 at 16:32, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > > >>Ab-so-friggin-lutely. Bad, buldging, stained cap ='s bad cap. Same damned >>thing happened on a 4 port NetGear Router I had and an ABIT KT7-A >>motherboard. With the ABIT, it was a known problem to the point where 3 >>shops cropped up in the US just to replace the bad caps. These were termed >>by ABIT as unit repair technical facilities for their Customer Service and >>Technical Support teams since ABIT apparently were cheap bastards and made, >>oh, 100,000 of those boards with that issue with the same faulty caps. >>NetGear is known for being cheap and a similar cap as the one you pictured, >>blew in the 4 port router I had. Their tech support sucked and one of these >>days, I'll just replace the damned cap myself. Good luck doing it. >> >>-John Boffemmyer IV >> >>At 03:48 PM 3/15/2004, you wrote: >> >> >>>Hi folks, >>> >>>This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes >>>of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100 >>>hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I >>>find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things >>>is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one >>>of the joins: >>> >>>http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg >>> >>>I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out? >>> >>>Cheers all, >>> >>> >>> From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Mar 16 09:48:10 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405721BA.6090406@atarimuseum.com> Try reloading... Curt Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel >>Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 >>To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; >>Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine >>power brick >> >>Hi Adrian, >> >> Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the Atari Museum: >> >>http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid >>eomusic.html >> >>You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side A >>& B for the schematics for the Video Music. >> >> > >Hi Curt, > >That's the page I was talking about - all the links including the pictures >are dead.... > >Cheers > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 16 01:54:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > Had an email from a lucky sod who's got his paws on a C240 Atari Video > Machine but the power brick is bust/broken/knackered/fubar/nixed. > > Anyone have one of these things or access to the schematics? He thinks it's > a 16V input but isn't entirely sure so he won't touch it until he knows > more.... That's the Video Music box. I've got one and will check the specs on it and get back to you (unless someone beats me to it). I do believe it's just a regular 9V DC 300ma center positive supply as was used on the 2600. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From evan947 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 09:52:07 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: <000001c40b5b$b07d55f0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <20040316155207.72015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Wow, Sellam must really have awesome resources at his disposal to be able to pull off getting a sponsor like Sun! Dude, how'd you do it? --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Awesome!...I'm looking forward to it. Let me know > if there is anything > I can do to help! I'm also looking to meeting the > other list members. > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:06 PM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Classic > Computers Mailing List > Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! > > > Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this > preliminary > announcement. > > VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July > 16-17 at Sun > Microsystems's Burlington, Massachusetts, campus. > Note: these dates are > FRIDAY and SATURDAY. A break from the traditional > VCF weekend but one > that was necessitated by matters outside my control. > At any rate, you > take a day off work and have all day Sunday to > relax. > > I'll hopefully have confirmed dates by the end of > the week. > > In the meantime, you can at least REGISTER AS AN > EXHIBITOR: > > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php > > (note: rules not yet updated) > > ...or perhaps you'd like to REGISTER AS A VENDOR: > > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php > > The event is being completely sponsored by Sun and > will feature several > talks from Sun employees on various aspects of Sun's > history. This > event > is likely to be BIG. Possibly rivalling the main > VCF in Sillycon > Valley. > > Sorry for the long delay but this is really a go > now! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Mar 16 09:53:07 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405722E3.8010209@atarimuseum.com> There was and when I looked at the page I fixed it for you. Curt Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel >>Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 >>To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; >>Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine >>power brick >> >>Hi Adrian, >> >> Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the Atari Museum: >> >>http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid >>eomusic.html >> >>You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side A >>& B for the schematics for the Video Music. >> >> > >*edit* no they're not, I just refreshed my page cache and they're >back.....was there a problem with that page or something? No matter :) > >Thanks! > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 16 01:57:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I picked up a couple of rack mount computers last week. Most of them were > made by Harris and Texas Micro and are MOL standard passive backplace type > stuff. However one of them was made by Kontron and it has a very strange > power connector. It's a black cylinder about 1 1/4" in diameter and about 1 > 1/2" long that sticks out of the chassis. The back half of the cylinder is > threaded so it appears that the mating connector screws onto it. The front > portion of the cylinder is divided lenghtwise into five segments. Four of > the sements have holes in them with a male connector pin resessed into the > holes. I opened the chassis and found that it was marked as being built to > operate off of 72 VDC power and that all four connecotr pins are wired tot > he PSU. Is anyone familar with the type of connector or why or where they > use 72 VDC power? The computer doesn't look like anything exceptional. It It probably ran off of batteries, possibly in a telco environment, where that supply was readily available. > has a 10 MHz 286 CPU and uses a 9" CRT in it for the monitor. The only > thing of real interest in it was a GPIB card. This one was made by INES > (IIRC) in Germany. I've never heard of this brand before. The chassis does > have one odd feature. The motherboard sits crossways in it and there are > cables that plug into the back panel connectors of the various cards > (they're now on the RH side of the computer since the MB is sideways) and > run around to the back of the computer and connect to connectors there. Is there any shielding? I have an tempest-shielded IBM PC that's kinda like this except the cards are in the standard orientation. Anyway, what you describe reminds me of that system. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 16 09:56:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1079452578.17440.13.camel@weka.localdomain> For anyone wanting to build one, there's a simple ESR meter schematic and some construction data at: http://www.albany.net/~gwoods/esr_meter/esr_meter_index.html However it doesn't say what the calibration procedure is so I'm not sure how you're supposed to do initial calibration of the unit without a known-good ESR meter to use for reference... cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 16 02:03:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: <20040316155207.72015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, evan wrote: > Wow, Sellam must really have awesome resources at his > disposal to be able to pull off getting a sponsor like > Sun! Dude, how'd you do it? Being handsome is my ace in the hole! Ok, and I have friends like EVAN who are hard-working and resourceful. Everyone can thank Evan for securing the venue by buying him a drink and getting him stumble-around-the-bar-and-hit-on-every-lady(-pretty-or-not) drunk at the VCF after party! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 16 09:58:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? In-Reply-To: <200403160622290537.0E6C3F83@192.168.42.129> References: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040316105824.00822ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:22 AM 3/16/04 -0800, Bruce wrote: >Hi, Joe, > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 16-Mar-04 at 08:08 Joe R. wrote: > >>I picked up a couple of rack mount computers last week. Most of them were >>made by Harris and Texas Micro and are MOL standard passive backplace type >>stuff. However one of them was made by Kontron and it has a very strange >>power connector. It's a black cylinder about 1 1/4" in diameter and about 1 >>1/2" long that sticks out of the chassis. The back half of the cylinder is >>threaded so it appears that the mating connector screws onto it. The front >>portion of the cylinder is divided lenghtwise into five segments. Four of >>the sements have holes in them with a male connector pin resessed into the >>holes. I opened the chassis and found that it was marked as being built to > > That sounds like a common MIL-C-5015 series connector. I could probably find a mate for it in a few minutes. Thanks but I doubt I'll need it. I'll probably pull the PSU and connect a standard 110 VAC unit and test it and see what kind of software is on the drive (including the drivers for the INES GPIB card) but that's about all. Anybody need a WELL built rack mount puter? > >>operate off of 72 VDC power and that all four connecotr pins are wired tot >>he PSU. Is anyone familar with the type of connector or why or where they >>use 72 VDC power? The computer doesn't look like anything exceptional. It > > 72VDC is frequently used in diesel-electric railroad locomotives. It is possible that this system was designed to work in one. Hmmm. Now that IS an unusual application! FWIW I believe that this one came from Harris Corp. I wonder what they were doing with it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 16 10:04:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:06 2005 Subject: Wrong formula? Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: References: <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040316110433.00824140@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:07 AM 3/16/04 -0800, Gene wrote: >> I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ... >> three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of >> the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had >> that happen. >> >The cap failure is due to a formulation error. The formua was stolen >from a competeing cap mfr, and they got it just a little bit wrong. There >was a big write up about this when it was first discovered. I haven't heard about that. Do you have a link to the write up? I did hear about a lot of faulty caps due to a supplier that sold bad batch of electrolyte to a lot of the cap manufacturers. What formula do you need for caps? AFIK it's just a matter of buying them for the applicable voltage. Yes there are formulas for capacitanace to achive the necesssary filtering but the wrong results there won't cause them to burst. Joe From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 16 10:08:15 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316110600.04e02a00@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this preliminary announcement. > >VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July 16-17 Oooh! Oooh! Mistah Kottah! Mistah Kottah! Can it be July 17th? That's my birthday... maybe my wife will let me go! (or maybe she'll come with... who knows???) Granted, I'd have to take most of the week off to get there (quite a long drive from Northern Michigan) but hey... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 16 10:09:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? References: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16471.9915.60000.477849@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> ... I opened the chassis and >> found that it was marked as being built to operate off of 72 VDC >> power and that all four connecotr pins are wired tot he PSU. Is >> anyone familar with the type of connector or why or where they use >> 72 VDC power? The computer doesn't look like anything >> exceptional. It Vintage> It probably ran off of batteries, possibly in a telco Vintage> environment, where that supply was readily available. No, Telco standard power is 48V DC. I think its tolerance is pretty loose (you're supposed to tolerate 60 volts???) but the nominal value is 48, not 72. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 10:14:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316110600.04e02a00@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <00c501c40b71$d48962c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Roger wrote... > Granted, I'd have to take most of the week off to get there (quite a long > drive from Northern Michigan) but hey... I'm actually thinking of driving there from St. Louis. In a van. With a big trailer. To haul some trading material up there (some already spoken for by listmembers!) It's funny how much a single 11/45, laying on it's side, wrapped in plastic & tarps, looks like a coffin. Scenes of National Lampoons Vacation movie come to mind :) Hey, I had offered some empty HP racks. Would this make it easier for people to pick one up if I had them at VCF east? I hate pitching them :\ Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 16 10:28:21 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Wrong formula? Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040316110433.00824140@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > At 07:07 AM 3/16/04 -0800, Gene wrote: > >> I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ... > >> three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of > >> the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had > >> that happen. > >> > >The cap failure is due to a formulation error. The formua was stolen > >from a competeing cap mfr, and they got it just a little bit wrong. There > >was a big write up about this when it was first discovered. > > I haven't heard about that. Do you have a link to the write up? I did > hear about a lot of faulty caps due to a supplier that sold bad batch of > electrolyte to a lot of the cap manufacturers. What formula do you need > for caps? AFIK it's just a matter of buying them for the applicable > voltage. Yes there are formulas for capacitanace to achive the necesssary > filtering but the wrong results there won't cause them to burst. > Unfortunately, I don't have a link handy. The "formula" I was referring to is the chemical mix used to actually manufacture the capcitor, not the one used in choosing it for a circuit. g. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 16 10:26:35 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040316080841.00901420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040316112635.0083e490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:57 PM 3/15/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I picked up a couple of rack mount computers last week. Most of them were >> made by Harris and Texas Micro and are MOL standard passive backplace type >> stuff. However one of them was made by Kontron and it has a very strange >> power connector. It's a black cylinder about 1 1/4" in diameter and about 1 >> 1/2" long that sticks out of the chassis. The back half of the cylinder is >> threaded so it appears that the mating connector screws onto it. The front >> portion of the cylinder is divided lenghtwise into five segments. Four of >> the sements have holes in them with a male connector pin resessed into the >> holes. I opened the chassis and found that it was marked as being built to >> operate off of 72 VDC power and that all four connecotr pins are wired tot >> he PSU. Is anyone familar with the type of connector or why or where they >> use 72 VDC power? The computer doesn't look like anything exceptional. It > >It probably ran off of batteries, possibly in a telco environment, where >that supply was readily available. Sorry but the telcos all use 48VDC AFIK. I used to install CO equipment and that's what was used in every office that I saw. They may use 72VDC or other voltages overseas, I don't know, but AFIK all the offices in the US are 48VDC. I wondered if this might actually run off of 48VDC but that's about a 33% difference so it would be questionable in my mind. One of the things holding me back from testing it is the lack of a suitable high currect power supply. I have access to plenty of high current 48VDC supplies (telco surplus) but high current supplies over 48V aren't that common. > >> has a 10 MHz 286 CPU and uses a 9" CRT in it for the monitor. The only >> thing of real interest in it was a GPIB card. This one was made by INES >> (IIRC) in Germany. I've never heard of this brand before. The chassis does >> have one odd feature. The motherboard sits crossways in it and there are >> cables that plug into the back panel connectors of the various cards >> (they're now on the RH side of the computer since the MB is sideways) and >> run around to the back of the computer and connect to connectors there. > >Is there any shielding? I have an tempest-shielded IBM PC that's kinda >like this except the cards are in the standard orientation. Anyway, what >you describe reminds me of that system. You might be right about tempest shielding. This is a VERY solidly built unit with plenty of metal covers and such. I didn't notice any RFI gaskets but they might not be needed. The back panel with the IO connectors is a solid metal plate with no joints to act as slot antennas. Joe From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 16 10:59:41 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: References: <1079445620.6252.2.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <20040316165941.GC18405@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 07:07:30AM -0800, Gene Buckle wrote: > The cap failure is due to a formulation error. The formua was stolen > from a competeing cap mfr, and they got it just a little bit wrong. There > was a big write up about this when it was first discovered. Right... it did get quite a bit of press when the news broke. As I understand it, the part of the formula they got wrong is an outgassing inhibitor. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-Mar-2004 05:49 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -51.5 F (-46.4 C) Windchill -93.3 F (-69.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.7 kts Grid 003 Barometer 674.7 mb (10828. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 16 03:22:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: 72VDC power? In-Reply-To: <16471.9915.60000.477849@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Vintage> It probably ran off of batteries, possibly in a telco > Vintage> environment, where that supply was readily available. > > No, Telco standard power is 48V DC. I think its tolerance is pretty > loose (you're supposed to tolerate 60 volts???) but the nominal value > is 48, not 72. I know. But 72 is ordinal with 48 and in lieu of any other knowledge, I hazarded a guess :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 11:41:29 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: <405722E3.8010209@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: Thanks Curt and Ken :) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 16 March 2004 15:53 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine > power brick > > There was and when I looked at the page I fixed it for you. > > > Curt > > > > Witchy wrote: > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > >>Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 > >>To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > >>Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >>Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power > >>brick > >> > >>Hi Adrian, > >> > >> Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the > Atari Museum: > >> > >>http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid > >>eomusic.html > >> > >>You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side > A & B for > >>the schematics for the Video Music. > >> > >> > > > >*edit* no they're not, I just refreshed my page cache and they're > >back.....was there a problem with that page or something? No > matter :) > > > >Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Curt Vendel & Karl Morris > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > The Atari Museum > http://www.atarimuseum.com > > The Atari Explorer > http://www.atari-explorer.com > > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 11:43:01 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 16 March 2004 07:54 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine > power brick > > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > > That's the Video Music box. I've got one and will check the > specs on it and get back to you (unless someone beats me to > it). I do believe it's just a regular 9V DC 300ma center > positive supply as was used on the 2600. Thanks Sellam, I did wonder when he said it seemed like an unregulated 16V AC supply direct in; it seemed a little odd. I'll let him know we're working on it :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 16 12:33:56 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! Message-ID: >Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this preliminary announcement. > >VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July 16-17 at Sun >Microsystems's Burlington, Massachusetts, campus. Note: these dates are >FRIDAY and SATURDAY. A break from the traditional VCF weekend but one >that was necessitated by matters outside my control. At any rate, you >take a day off work and have all day Sunday to relax. Excellent! Shame it isn't nearer NY, but still... >The event is being completely sponsored by Sun and will feature several >talks from Sun employees on various aspects of Sun's history. This event >is likely to be BIG. Possibly rivalling the main VCF in Sillycon Valley. Reinforce the floors, Sellam - the Corestore is coming! :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Tue Mar 16 13:22:42 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! References: Message-ID: <009601c40b8e$0c9a0ae0$5b4a4ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: RE: VCF East 2.0 is ON! > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, evan wrote: > > > Wow, Sellam must really have awesome resources at his > > disposal to be able to pull off getting a sponsor like > > Sun! Dude, how'd you do it? > > Being handsome is my ace in the hole! > > Ok, and I have friends like EVAN who are hard-working and resourceful. > > Everyone can thank Evan for securing the venue by buying him a drink and > getting him stumble-around-the-bar-and-hit-on-every-lady(-pretty-or-not) > drunk at the VCF after party! > Hey ! Now that's what I call a job ! Does that make me hard working and resourceful too ? Geoff. > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 16 14:09:54 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: [Fwd: More interesting reading on the Apollo 11 LM] (fwd) Message-ID: re: choice of languages: since they were hand machine coding, the choice of high-level language was immaterial, and was a meta-language only since no compiler was used. Probably the authors were fluent MAC programmers. Maybe they had MAC OS/360 emulators/interpreters. In hindsight some things appear odd (read-only core must be physically assembled with 1's and 0's!, instead of disabling/modifying drive currents) but embedded control -- with human beings at .25M miles! -- never mind the mass-media effect of failure -- was utterly without precedent. Hell embedded digital control was novel. So -- Extreme conservatism of an kind UNKNOWABLE to COMMERCIAL programmers was always foremost is space applications. http://www.unt.edu/UNT/departments/CC/Benchmarks/benchmarks_html/sepoct95/lunar.htm From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 14:23:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Mattel intellivision Message-ID: Hi folks, Anyone have any troubleshooting expertise on these things? Got one of my spares out for sale and typically the bloody thing is pretty dead. I say *pretty* dead 'cos I get the cart intro screen on power up, but with the computer module attached I get nothing. I've left it powered up for 15 minutes in case it's a warm up problem but that makes matters worse :) According to the service manual I have to replace either the RAM or CPU in that order, but since spares for those will come from working intellivisions I don't want to do that! Also, off the top of my head I can't think of any other videogames that use the General Instruments GI1610 CPU, assuming it's that that's croaked. The RAM is a GI-specific chip too. Spares, anyone? TIA :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From m1dlg at whsmithnet.co.uk Tue Mar 16 14:51:43 2004 From: m1dlg at whsmithnet.co.uk (DJ (M1DLG)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 References: Message-ID: <00cd01c40b98$83500310$0700000a@m3dlg> anyone here with any experence with these, as i have a badly damaged power supply board, has been damaged since around 1994 when it fell out of the loft (owing to my mum religating everything i owned then out of the way.) the loft to floor fall was 12-15 feet, and it is my dream to have the whole thing working once again. dj if there is anyone with an old one with mind to sell or any circuit diagrams to offer then please let me know. i am also looking to convert the cassette tapes of the games and other software i have stashed to CD as this is only a theory that it could work i would like to know if anyone has done this before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Mattel intellivision > Hi folks, > > Anyone have any troubleshooting expertise on these things? Got one of my > spares out for sale and typically the bloody thing is pretty dead. I say > *pretty* dead 'cos I get the cart intro screen on power up, but with the > computer module attached I get nothing. I've left it powered up for 15 > minutes in case it's a warm up problem but that makes matters worse :) > > According to the service manual I have to replace either the RAM or CPU in > that order, but since spares for those will come from working intellivisions > I don't want to do that! Also, off the top of my head I can't think of any > other videogames that use the General Instruments GI1610 CPU, assuming it's > that that's croaked. The RAM is a GI-specific chip too. Spares, anyone? > > TIA :) > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Mar 16 15:08:06 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 In-Reply-To: <00cd01c40b98$83500310$0700000a@m3dlg> References: <00cd01c40b98$83500310$0700000a@m3dlg> Message-ID: <40576CB6.6000601@gifford.co.uk> DJ (M1DLG) wrote: > anyone here with any experence with these, as i have a badly damaged power > supply board, has been damaged since around 1994 when it fell out of the > loft Oops! Well, I have a couple of Dragon 32 machines, and I could take a look at any parts (on an intact one) that you might need to replace (on your broken one). Are you referring to the PSU board inside the Dragon, or the separate transformer box? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 16 16:29:08 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> Hey Guys I've got a few DEChub90s - sweet things they are too. However, I don't wnt the bulk of them at the moment until we move to the New House. I'd like to run one of the modules - a DECserver90TL, not that it matters really which module it is - standalone. There's the largeish 16x3 rectangular backplane connector, and a smaller DIN-ish port. Where does the PSU connect on models that were born to be standalone? TIA alex/melt From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 16 17:13:23 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> References: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <40578A13.2000207@ntlworld.com> meltie wrote: >Hey Guys > >I've got a few DEChub90s - sweet things they are too. However, I don't wnt >the bulk of them at the moment until we move to the New House. > >I'd like to run one of the modules - a DECserver90TL, not that it matters >really which module it is - standalone. > >There's the largeish 16x3 rectangular backplane connector, and a smaller >DIN-ish port. Where does the PSU connect on models that were born to be >standalone? > >TIA >alex/melt > > > > Bad news it's the din connector, I 've got one of these as well, but I can't put up with the noise from the dechub to run it. Dan From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 16 17:49:24 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <40578A13.2000207@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <000601c40bb1$4fe0b560$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Bad news it's the din connector, I 've got one of these as > well, but I > can't put up with the noise from the dechub to run it. If the dnpg website is still up, it used to have a list of which hub90 modules worked with which of the two PSU variants. So if you are looking for a suitable PSU, the actual model *does* matter. I think the plastic "backplate" that you shove on the back of a standalone unit to protect the hub90 connector is common to all hub90 units. With DEChub900 units (the bigger ones) you actually need a "plug-in" style of PSU (hard to describe but it fits along the back end of the whole unit). You'll be happy to know that there are at least two of these two :-) The later one has enough oomph to power the AUI connector too :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 16 17:55:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 In-Reply-To: <00cd01c40b98$83500310$0700000a@m3dlg> from "DJ \" at Mar 16, 4 08:51:43 pm Message-ID: > > anyone here with any experence with these, as i have a badly damaged power Although I'm in the UK, I have much more experience of the Tandy CoCo -- I even have a CoCo3 here. The Dragon 32 and CoCo 1 are pretty similar (based on the same Motorola application note), but alas the PSU is one area that's different. I do haev a Dragon 32 that's not too hard to get to. If you get no other help, I'll dig it out and trace out the schematics of the PSU board (shouldn't take too long). I'll need them myself sometime anyway... -tony From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 16 18:23:19 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <000601c40bb1$4fe0b560$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000601c40bb1$4fe0b560$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200403170023.20001.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 16 March 2004 23:49, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Bad news it's the din connector, I 've got one of these as > > well, but I > > can't put up with the noise from the dechub to run it. > > If the dnpg website is still up, it used to have a list > of which hub90 modules worked with which of the two > PSU variants. So if you are looking for a suitable > PSU, the actual model *does* matter. > > I think the plastic "backplate" that you shove on the > back of a standalone unit to protect the hub90 connector > is common to all hub90 units. > > With DEChub900 units (the bigger ones) you actually need > a "plug-in" style of PSU (hard to describe but it fits > along the back end of the whole unit). You'll be happy > to know that there are at least two of these two :-) > The later one has enough oomph to power the AUI > connector too :-) Ah. I was considering cobbling together a PSU adaptor myself if this was the case - are the pinouts documented anywhere? I've had a flick through most of the documents I could find for most of the modules I have and unsurprisingly came up empty :( alex/melt From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 18:29:39 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: looking for 2100S microcode programming snippet Message-ID: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I could have sworn I had a 2100A or 2100S microcode programming guide. Can't seem to find it, and I need one tiny bit of info from a chart in it. I have the 21MX microcode programming guide, but this specific info is possibly (likely) different between the two. The 105xxx instruction calls microcode routines, where xxx represents the "address" (bits 8-0, 0-1777). However, I don't think the "address" corresponds directly to a given word address of microcode. At least on the 21MX it doesn't. The 21MX uprog guide gives a table, showing the 105xxx (and for 21MX, 101xxx) addresses and what ranges of microcode addresses they correspond to (and in what module). I need this same info, but for the 2100S or 2100A. Anyone have this info? Thanks in advance!! Jay (crossing his fingers) West From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Tue Mar 16 18:49:45 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: More interesting reading on the Apollo 11 LM References: Message-ID: <4057A0A9.15EEFCC@msm.umr.edu> also of some interest are the addenda to the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal in the section about the first landing. I'll save you having to read all that to find the computer related articles, but recommend you do so anyway Peter Adler http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11.1201-pa.html Fred Martin http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11.1201-fm.html Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > http://www.unt.edu/UNT/departments/CC/Benchmarks/benchmarks_html/sepoct95/lunar.htm > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Tue Mar 16 18:56:44 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: looking for 2100S microcode programming snippet Message-ID: <200403170056.i2H0ui9U009610@spies.com> > Anyone have this info? -- Frank was scanning the handbook. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 18:56:11 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 16 March 2004 22:29 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Setting a DECserver free > > There's the largeish 16x3 rectangular backplane connector, > and a smaller DIN-ish port. Where does the PSU connect on > models that were born to be standalone? As Dan's already said it's the small DIN port, however bear in mind there are 2 PSUs, one for standalone DEChub modules and one for the stackable units whose mnemonic escapes me for now, basically the latter is more powerful as it needs to run the daisy chain/management module that the server clips into... Cheers w From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 16 19:08:58 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 In-Reply-To: <00cd01c40b98$83500310$0700000a@m3dlg> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316200106.047a6470@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that DJ \(M1DLG\) may have mentioned these words: [[ Note: Please don't click "Reply" then start up a new thread -- that makes mailing list archives *really* wonky... If it's a new subject, start from scratch. Thanks! ]] >anyone here with any experence with these, as i have a badly damaged power >supply board, has been damaged since around 1994 when it fell out of the >loft (owing to my mum religating everything i owned then out of the way.) >the loft to floor fall was 12-15 feet, and it is my dream to have the whole >thing working once again. No experience directly, but I've worked on CoCos for years, and they're quite similar. However, if you just want to replace it in the short term, try here: http://www.cadigital.com/computer.htm Most of the items they sell at that website are insanely expensive, but at $35 complete, it's actually rather reasonable... If you're not in the US, I dunno what shipping would do to ya... >if there is anyone with an old one with mind to sell or any circuit diagrams >to offer then please let me know. i am also looking to convert the cassette >tapes of the games and other software i have stashed to CD as this is only a >theory that it could work i would like to know if anyone has done this >before. Dunno if the cassette audio is compatible, but Jeff Vavasour would be the guy to get in contact with for stuff like that - he wrote the premiere CoCo2/3 emulator (google is your friend, my friend) and there are programs that can convert tape audio data to/from wave files for the emulator on a PC. You might wanna try there... HTH, and laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 19:08:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: looking for 2100S microcode programming snippet References: <200403170056.i2H0ui9U009610@spies.com> Message-ID: <000701c40bbc$523775a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> ok, Frank, can you email me just the short info from that chart? Unless someone else has the info handy... Thanks!! Jay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 16 19:21:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316200106.047a6470@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Mar 16, 4 08:08:58 pm Message-ID: > No experience directly, but I've worked on CoCos for years, and they're The Dragon and Coco are similar on the 'computer' side [1], but the PSU is rather different. The Dragon has an external transformer box that connects to a DE9 plug on the back of the Dragon. Inside the Dragon (I've just looked) there are 2 PCBs. One is double-sided, glassfibre, and contains the 'computer' stuff (6809, 6883, 6847, RAM, ROM, etc). The other is single-sided SRBP, and contains the PSU, modulator, and video output socket (the Dragon has a 3 pin DIN video output, the connections being audio, ground, composite video in some order). The 2 PCBs are connected by a short length of ribbon cable with a plug/socket on the 'computer' board. The PSU circuitry consists of 8 diodes (forming 2 bridge rectifers, one to provide the +5V supply, the other to provide the +12V, -5V supplies from a centre tapped transformer winding), a few caps, and 3 3 terminal regulators for the 3 supplies. There's nothing 'clever' or unconvnentional about it. [1] The main difference is the printer port. When you've taken over the lines for the keyboard, sound, etc, there are 3 PIA lines left. The CoCo uses them to make a bit-banged serial port (2 inputs, one output). The Dragon uses them to make a centronics port (strobe, busy, acknowledge IIRC). The Centronics data comes from the same port that provides the keyboard scan outputs. Since the printer only looks at that data when the strobe line is active (and it's not active during keyboard scanning), and since the CPU doens't look at the keyboard inputs when it's printing, there's no conflict here. > quite similar. However, if you just want to replace it in the short term, > try here: > > http://www.cadigital.com/computer.htm > > Most of the items they sell at that website are insanely expensive, but at > $35 complete, it's actually rather reasonable... If you're not in the US, I > dunno what shipping would do to ya... I assue he's in the UK. The Dragon is much more common over here, I think. And his domain name looks like a UK amateur radio callsign (am I right?) > Dunno if the cassette audio is compatible, but Jeff Vavasour would be the The cassette format is the same at the bit level, and even at the file level. The problem is that the BASIC tokens were assigned in a different order (for what reason %deity only knows!). So ASCII BASIC programs will load into both machines, as will some machine code programs (provided they don't use ROM calls that are different on the 2 machines). Tokenised BASIC programs will load, but won't run, and the listings are garbage! If you just copy the cassettes to audio CDs, then I can't see why it won't work (although I really can't see the point of doing this -- if you want to preserve the recordings I'd not use a CD!). But I would have thought you could interpret the data on the tape and make a much smaller file that was essentially a bit image of the 0's and 1's on the tape. Then convert that back to the right audio format to load it into the Dragon. The format of the tape data is documented in the CoCo service manuals, etc. -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 16 19:34:59 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316200106.047a6470@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger > Sent: 17 March 2004 01:09 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Dragon 32/64 > > No experience directly, but I've worked on CoCos for years, > and they're quite similar. However, if you just want to > replace it in the short term, try here: > > http://www.cadigital.com/computer.htm Ye gods, are they still selling those? I bought 2 of 'em over 2 years ago now. It was almost worth it just to have a laugh at the catalogue since it looked like they hadn't updated it since the 1970s! Looking round the website now I'd hazard that most of the pages haven't been updated since 1995 - wow - a dual speed external CD writer with 1.2gb drive for *gasp* $2695! http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tano/tano.php One of these days I'll see if one of them powers up with a standard UK Dragon PSU. > $35 complete, it's actually rather reasonable... If you're > not in the US, I dunno what shipping would do to ya... I cheated when I got mine - I was over in Nashua for a Compaq 'do' at Digital's old Nashua HQ so I had my machines shipped there and brought 'em back myself. Cheers w From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 16 12:02:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > http://www.cadigital.com/computer.htm > > > > Most of the items they sell at that website are insanely expensive, but at > > $35 complete, it's actually rather reasonable... If you're not in the US, I > > dunno what shipping would do to ya... > > I assue he's in the UK. The Dragon is much more common over here, I > think. And his domain name looks like a UK amateur radio callsign (am I > right?) Nope, California. It really is a good value for a new in the box Dragon. I finally bought one a couple years ago fearing they would go away before I had a chance (as the Xerox portables he was selling did). I'm not totally surprised he's still selling them...I think Hans visited the place and said he has a pallet of them. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 16 20:45:39 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: <00c501c40b71$d48962c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > Hey, I had offered some empty HP racks. Would this make it easier for people > to pick one up if I had them at VCF east? I hate pitching them :\ Would any of them be "proper" for a 2100A system? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 16 20:49:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Being handsome is my ace in the hole! Your acehole? > Everyone can thank Evan for securing the venue by buying him a drink and > getting him stumble-around-the-bar-and-hit-on-every-lady(-pretty-or-not) > drunk at the VCF after party! Will do. I don't have any clue what I would bring as an exhibit at this point. Something smallish - big computers are great fun, but hauling them around is not much fun. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 21:29:06 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: vcf east - riders? - trades? Message-ID: <003b01c40bd0$00cc0410$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> by the way... I am not bringing an 11/45 to vcf east :) I was referring to how it looked when I got it recently from TN. I haven't started on that restoration project yet, and I doubt pretty seriously it'd get any awards the way it looks now *GRIN* Well, maybe... "system carrying the most dirt and grime". Now, if Sellam would ever have a VCF-Central, in St. Louis, I would bring the dual bay HP2000/Access system. If it'd be in St. Louis then I wouldn't mind so much having to tear a wall out of the basement to get it out. It does look like there is a pretty reasonable chance I will make it to VCF east. Can't wait to meet everyone! I will most likely be driving from St. Louis to VCF and back with either a small flatbed trailer, or a van (or both). Any riders along the way want to come with and share gas costs? It'd be nice to make the drive in one stretch, doable with multple drivers. If anyone going to VCF east wants any HP racks, 13037 controller systems, or 7906 disc drives, now is the time to speak up cause I'll bring it all with me. Could bring some 21MX's too. Regards, Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 21:30:52 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! References: Message-ID: <005101c40bd0$40598c10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Would any of them be "proper" for a 2100A system? I have several of the exactly historically correct racks for the 2100A systems :) I have too many of them actually. Jay From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 16 21:38:28 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: <005101c40bd0$40598c10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > I have several of the exactly historically correct racks for the 2100A > systems :) I have too many of them actually. Haul one east! I have had a deracked 2100A system (disk and paper tape reader/punch) for quite a few years now). What 'cha want for it? Answer off list... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 16 21:59:23 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Software want... In-Reply-To: <000701c40bbc$523775a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: A gent has come to me looking for a BBS program that would run under CP/M-86. Can someone point me to where I can find such a thing? Thanks! g. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Mar 16 23:05:06 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: looking for 2100S microcode programming snippet In-Reply-To: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> (Jay West's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:29:39 -0600") References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200403170505.i2H557qx049890@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jay West wrote: > The 105xxx instruction calls microcode routines, where xxx represents the > "address" (bits 8-0, 0-1777). However, I don't think the "address" > corresponds directly to a given word address of microcode. At least on the > 21MX it doesn't. 105000 through 105377. You only get 7 bits to play with. And only bits 7-4 are used as bits 3-0 of the microcode ROM address. The lowest-numbered microcode ROM module, excluding module 0, is where the primary jump table lives (in the first 16 words). Is that what you're looking for? Yes, I oughta get around to post-processing the scans into a PDF. -Frank McConnell From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Mar 16 23:15:37 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: 2 Mac SE models available Message-ID: <12c.3d2142f0.2d8938f9@aol.com> Macintosh SE 4meg with dual floppies. Booted up fine off an external drive. No video problems. Fan is noisy but works. Case needs cleaning. Macintosh SE FDHD 4/40. Boots system 6.08. Case is yellowed, but not excessive. Works fine and no video problems. Hows about $7 each plus whatever it costs to ship from zip 27703. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 23:29:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: looking for 2100S microcode programming snippet References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200403170505.i2H557qx049890@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <00ca01c40be0$c7b62780$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Frank wrote... > 105000 through 105377. You only get 7 bits to play with. And only bits > 7-4 are used as bits 3-0 of the microcode ROM address. > > The lowest-numbered microcode ROM module, excluding module 0, is where > the primary jump table lives (in the first 16 words). > > Is that what you're looking for? Yes, but I must be missing something, it doesn't make sense to me. Is the manual you're looking at for the A, or S? S has room for more modules. According to docs I do have: The 2100S has 1024 24-bit words of control store, divided into 4 modules of 256 24-bit words each. They are allocated as follows: module 0 : 0-377 basic instruction set module 1 : 400-777 IOP, FP, or User module 2 : 1000-1377 FFP-1, or User module 3 : 1400-1777 FFP-2, or User The above is from a 2100 hp hardware repair manual, but it doesn't go into macroinstruction address to microroutine address mapping and exactly how that works. That sounds like the range for all 4 possible modules is 0-1777, which also jives with the same manual saying that bits 8-0 (9 bits) are for the "address". I'm definitely missing something in my understanding. Probably partially because I only have a 21mx microprogramming module and I'm trying to make 2100 inferences from that. Where am I going astray? I guess I could see how it is possible to use less bits than represent 1777 if you have a jump table, but putting a jump table in whatever the lowest microcode module is doesn't make sense to me, as the user can put different combinations of modules in... I'm confused :\ > Yes, I oughta get around to post-processing the scans into a PDF. I would like very much to see the relevant sections to the above concepts! Thanks much! Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 16 23:36:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: redux: 2100S microcode References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200403170505.i2H557qx049890@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <00d201c40be1$c60a7de0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> While I want to understand the whole scoop for my own knowledge, what I actually need at the moment is much simpler. Given a microcode call of 105xxx, how can I determine if this is calling code in module 0, 1, 2, or 3. I don't really have to even know the actual location in each module, just which module! Yes, I know calls to module 0 (basic instruction set) are forbidden.. I just need the bit logic to know which module the 105xxx instruction references. In the 21MX manual, there is a small table called something like "user code to rom address mapping", I'm hoping the 2100S manual has an equivalent. That's all I really need for the moment! Thanks! Jay From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Mar 17 00:28:12 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: looking for 2100S microcode programming snippet In-Reply-To: <00ca01c40be0$c7b62780$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> (Jay West's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:29:12 -0600") References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200403170505.i2H557qx049890@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <00ca01c40be0$c7b62780$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200403170628.i2H6SCsL051307@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jay West wrote: > Yes, but I must be missing something, it doesn't make sense to me. Is the > manual you're looking at for the A, or S? S has room for more modules. "2100 computer". But it describes four modules, 0 through 3. 10 bits of ROM address with the high two being the module number. > That sounds like the range for all 4 possible modules is 0-1777, which also > jives with the same manual saying that bits 8-0 (9 bits) are for the > "address". I'm definitely missing something in my understanding. 1777 is 10 bits. Bits 9-8 are the module number. Bits 7-0 are the address within the module. > While I want to understand the whole scoop for my own knowledge, what I > actually need at the moment is much simpler. Given a microcode call of > 105xxx, how can I determine if this is calling code in module 0, 1, 2, or 3. "These are translated by the mapper to specific control store addresses, depending on which module has been chosen (and hard-wired) to contain the primary entry points. The rule here is that the lowest numbered module in the system, excluding module 0, must contain the primary entry points. ... In all cases, the first 16 locations of the appropriate module are dedicated to this purpose." -Frank McConnell From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Mar 17 01:23:58 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <200403170023.20001.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <001201c40bf0$d02c5780$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Ah. I was considering cobbling together a PSU adaptor myself > if this was > the case - are the pinouts documented anywhere? I've had a > flick through > most of the documents I could find for most of the modules I have and > unsurprisingly came up empty :( I'm reasonably sure that when I was hunting for the "what PSU works with what module" info, the pinouts did crop up. Needless to say, I cannot find that info right now. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de Wed Mar 17 03:39:37 2004 From: Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 (was: Searching for IBM System/7 items) In-Reply-To: <6A15E72BE8E3D44494D6BDAF3C388E0E02B0BFE7@rijpat-s-346.europe.shell.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Stegeman, Henk HJ SITI-ITPSNE wrote: > Henk Stegeman > IBM S/7 restorer. And don't forget the IBM 5110 you have, too. I think this is a machine worth to be discussed on this list. Anyone who is interested in the IBM 5110 may have a look at: http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev/ibm_5110/technik/en/index.html (Translation into English may not be perfect). I do have a 5110 C14 with 5114 and 5103 as well as a 5110 B22. Our museum has a 5100 (upgraded to a 5110 by IBM), a 5110 C14 and a 5120. I have reverse-engineered the complete machine instruction set and I am trying to document the machine as detailed as possible. Christian From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Mar 16 16:22:02 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 is ON! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040316172131.025403e0@mail.n.ml.org> I second that Mike (Orange County, NY). -John Boffemmyer IV At 01:33 PM 3/16/2004, you wrote: >>Ok, finally got confirmation so I can make this preliminary announcement. >> >>VCF East 2.0 will be held either June 25-26 or July 16-17 at Sun >>Microsystems's Burlington, Massachusetts, campus. Note: these dates are >>FRIDAY and SATURDAY. A break from the traditional VCF weekend but one >>that was necessitated by matters outside my control. At any rate, you >>take a day off work and have all day Sunday to relax. > >Excellent! Shame it isn't nearer NY, but still... > >>The event is being completely sponsored by Sun and will feature several >>talks from Sun employees on various aspects of Sun's history. This event >>is likely to be BIG. Possibly rivalling the main VCF in Sillycon Valley. > >Reinforce the floors, Sellam - the Corestore is coming! :-) > >Mike >http://www.corestore.org > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar ? includes FREE pop-up blocking! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 23:26:00 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) Message-ID: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> No, not at all. I don't see any "obstacles", only whining and inconsequential blathering. Look bud... YOU try living with these assholes and see how long you last. >From the moment you started participating in this group you've bandied about ridiculous theories about electricity and your questions have generally been answerable with just the minimum of Googling (and before you protest you CAN get to Google from AOL, I've done it). Don't give me that raft of shit... I did google first and found next to nothing. And what I did find was usually a bunch of giberish that, if I knew german, I would be able to understand. BTW, google's "translate this page" option wasn't there. When you try to get help for your problems, you seem to go out of your way to make it difficult. The problem doesn't seem to be AOL or your parents or Windows or whatever. It's you. Do some basic research and install some decent tools (of which there are many free ones available). Hide them from your parents if need be. Me dad is smarter then he appears... he knows enough to check certain unalterable system logs, that record all system activity. So installing programs is out of the question. Downloading is allowed as long as I don't exceed 1GB of file space they've "alloted" me. If you insist your parents are in the way then get a job and move out or order your own phone line. I've been looking for a job for 4 fucking months. But because of certain facts that goal seems unachieveable. A.)I was never allowed to get me temps (it was an 18th b-day present to meself) so I can't drive (yet), B.)the damn economy has hit the area where I live extremely hard (Ohio if your wondering), most of the companies around here haven't finish firing people yet, while the rest of you are on the upwards climb... we haven't quite hit the bottom. Care to trade lives? Lyos Gemini Norezel Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 23:38:08 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A for sale Message-ID: <20040317053808.99489.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll... I have a nonworking TI-99/4A in my possession that I need to sell... the TI-99/4A has the following attributes/detributes TI-99/4A Computer: Minor damage to case 5 missing keys: the "A", "S", and "Z" letter keys, the spacebar, and an unknown key Nonworking, undamaged inside but fails to boot up... could just be a minor fault... but I am unable to test it. 2 command modules: 1 Blackjack and Poker 1 "The Attack" 1 working TI-99/4A power adapter model no. AC95000 w/"Safety Checked" sticker 1 Video Modulator w/protection/on LED TV/Antenna/IN 3-position switch Channel select (ch 3 or 4) model no. UM1381 seems to work 2 "Home Computer Remote Controllers" (joysticks) attached to one serial port plug model no. PHP1100 $25 plus shipping from US 45424 gets it. Trade only for working power adapter for an Apple IIc. Lyos Gemini Norezel Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 17 06:06:07 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) In-Reply-To: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200403171206.07176.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 05:26, Lyos Norezel wrote: > No, not at all. I don't see any "obstacles", only whining and > inconsequential blathering. > >> Look bud... YOU try living with these assholes and see how long you >> last. > > From the moment you started participating in this group you've bandied > about ridiculous theories about electricity and your questions have > generally been answerable with just the minimum of Googling (and before > you protest you CAN get to Google from AOL, I've done it). > >> Don't give me that raft of shit... I did google first and found next to >> nothing. And what I did find was usually a bunch of giberish that, if I >> knew german, I would be able to understand. BTW, google's "translate >> this page" option wasn't there. > > When you try to get help for your problems, you seem to go out of your > way to make it difficult. The problem doesn't seem to be AOL or your > parents or Windows or whatever. It's you. Do some basic research and > install some decent tools (of which there are many free ones available). > Hide them from your parents if need be. > >> Me dad is smarter then he appears... he knows enough to check certain >> unalterable system logs, that record all system activity. So installing >> programs is out of the question. Downloading is allowed as long as I >> don't exceed 1GB of file space they've "alloted" me. > > If you insist your parents are in the way then get a job and move > out or order your own phone line. > >> I've been looking for a job for 4 fucking months. But because of certain >> facts that goal seems unachieveable. A.)I was never allowed to get me >> temps (it was an 18th b-day present to meself) so I can't drive (yet), >> B.)the damn economy has hit the area where I live extremely hard (Ohio >> if your wondering), most of the companies around here haven't finish >> firing people yet, while the rest of you are on the upwards climb... we >> haven't quite hit the bottom. Care to trade lives? > Lyos Gemini Norezel Keep the swearing and vitriol off-list guys... alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 17 06:04:57 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:07 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, meltie wrote: > I've got a few DEChub90s - sweet things they are too. However, I don't wnt > the bulk of them at the moment until we move to the New House. > > I'd like to run one of the modules - a DECserver90TL, not that it matters > really which module it is - standalone. > > There's the largeish 16x3 rectangular backplane connector, and a smaller > DIN-ish port. Where does the PSU connect on models that were born to be > standalone? The DIN connector is used for external (standalone) power. The PSU comes in two flavors - one that has 5.1V, and one that has both the 5.1V *and* a 12V DC supply.. some modules need both, others dont. I have some extra PSU's, can send one if ya need one. Cheers, Fred From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 17 07:21:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 15 March 2004 22:45 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub > > "On its way out" is probably the understatement of the year. I'm good at that :) > Is there any branding on the cap in the photo? I had to recap 'Gloria' don'tcha know. I've got the Farnell part number here, 767360, any chance you can nip up to the trade counter for me? I don't want to create a ?10 order for a 50p capacitor :) Fortunately there's only been a tiny bit of marking on the inner metal lining of the top of the case; no signs of underneath leakage or owt nasty. There's a bit more height available if the replacement cap is a bit bigger..... Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Mar 17 07:40:49 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 (was: Searching for IBM System/7 items) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1079530849.29439.7.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 04:39, Christian Corti wrote: > And don't forget the IBM 5110 you have, too. I think this is a machine > worth to be discussed on this list. Anyone who is interested in the IBM > 5110 may have a look at: I got to play with a 5100 when A.J. Rose brought one to an ACM meeting at New Mexico State back in 77 or so. I was 15 and THAT was the first computer I ever really really wanted to own. I would still kill for one. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Wed Mar 17 08:30:21 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Software want... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405860FD.3040108@ntlworld.com> Gene Buckle wrote: >A gent has come to me looking for a BBS program that would run under >CP/M-86. Can someone point me to where I can find such a thing? > >Thanks! > >g. > > > > > > You could try here ftp://ftp.barnyard.co.uk/cpm/ . n From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 17 09:16:50 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Software want... In-Reply-To: <405860FD.3040108@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Dan Williams wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > >A gent has come to me looking for a BBS program that would run under > >CP/M-86. Can someone point me to where I can find such a thing? > > > >Thanks! > > > >g. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could try here ftp://ftp.barnyard.co.uk/cpm/ . > > Thanks Dan, I'll give it a shot. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 17 09:28:03 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Software want... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > > You could try here ftp://ftp.barnyard.co.uk/cpm/ . > > > > > Thanks Dan, I'll give it a shot. > > g. > FYI, there's no response at that address. g. From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 17 10:44:12 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) References: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f401c40c3f$13f039c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > From: Lyos Norezel > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:26 AM Please act politely or I will take active measures to prevent you from posting to this list. Simply put, You are Not free to be an asshole, here. John A. From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 17 10:57:54 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><200403170505.i2H557qx049890@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <00ca01c40be0$c7b62780$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <00f501c40c40$fdd5bd20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> My favorite newspaper brought to me yesterday news of a "freecycle" movement, both nationally and locally that seems to match the goals of many listmembers. http://www.freecycle.org ** National. Lists free things that people don't want to see thrown. Allows matching by locality, many cities/counties listed. At first glance may be too dependant on yahoo groups. http://www.wastematch.org Local to NY. Free, Cheap, Available or Wanted all included. Looks like a good start, anyway. Perhaps the free listings on the VCM ( http://marketplace.vintage.org ) could be networked in to one or more of the above. I am in awe of all three websites BTW. John A. re: the article http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/16/nyregion/16free.html ** current counters: "Number of cities freecycling: 279 Number of people freecycling: 37,128" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 17 11:01:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) In-Reply-To: <00f401c40c3f$13f039c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040317120145.008bee50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:44 AM 3/17/04 -0500, John A. wrote: >> From: Lyos Norezel >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:26 AM > >Please act politely or I will take active measures >to prevent you from posting to this list. >Simply put, You are Not free to be an asshole, here. Well put. I'll be glad to help. Lyos is already in my kill-file. He's done nothing but complain, argue and whine since he joined this list. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 17 11:08:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Setup disk for HP Vectra ES? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040317120852.008cd880@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I pickup two HP Vectra ES/12 computers last week with the HP 82321 BASIC Language Processor cards in them. But they've been sitting long enough that the CMOS batteries have died and now they don't recognize the hard drives. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the CMOS setup program? The Vectra ES computers aren't even listed on HP's (or I should say Compaq's!) website any more and I've searched the net and can't find it there either. I think the BIOS was written by Phoenix and I thought I'd try their setup program but I can't even find an old version that on the net. Phoenix's site now only talks about AWARD BIOS since they bought them out. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 17 03:27:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) In-Reply-To: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Care to trade lives? Sure! I wish me only problems were being stuck living at home. Anyway, you've got issues, bud. I'd call you a jackass but you're too immature to understand. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From runtime at wzrd.com Wed Mar 17 10:30:45 2004 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: free TLZ09-AA, RZ25, MMJ cables Message-ID: <200403171630.i2HGUfbj025663@mail.wzrd.com> but...it doesn't work. bare drive. yours for the postage (it doesn't weigh much). Also, RZ25 -- free (don't know whether it works or not). Also, lots of MMJ cables (some DEC, some I made). Most are 10 or 12 feet; some are even longer. you can contact me via email, having made the obvious replacement: runtime(at)wzrd.com Don Mitchell Runtime Services From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 17 03:33:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A for sale In-Reply-To: <20040317053808.99489.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lyos, I'll explain to you why asking $25 for a non-working TI 99/4a is ludicrous: 1) They are quite common, and even $25 would be a stretch for a working one in good condition 2) Complete, WORKING systems can be found on eBay for under $15 3) Trying to sell a non-working unit with missing keys and case damage is pretty laughable You need to put a little bit more effort into understanding the economic realities of this hobby. And JUST because I'm a nice guy, send me your address and I'll send you a //c power supply since I just found a stash of them. You can keep your TI 99/4a. On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey ya'll... I have a nonworking TI-99/4A in my possession that I need to sell... > the TI-99/4A has the following attributes/detributes > TI-99/4A Computer: > Minor damage to case > 5 missing keys: the "A", "S", and "Z" letter keys, the spacebar, > and an unknown key > Nonworking, undamaged inside but fails to boot up... could just be a minor > fault... but I am unable to test it. > > 2 command modules: > 1 Blackjack and Poker > 1 "The Attack" > > 1 working TI-99/4A power adapter > model no. AC95000 > w/"Safety Checked" sticker > > 1 Video Modulator > w/protection/on LED > TV/Antenna/IN 3-position switch > Channel select (ch 3 or 4) > model no. UM1381 > seems to work > > 2 "Home Computer Remote Controllers" (joysticks) attached to one serial port plug > model no. PHP1100 > > $25 plus shipping from US 45424 gets it. Trade only for working power adapter for an > Apple IIc. > Lyos Gemini Norezel > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Wed Mar 17 11:40:13 2004 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Software want... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40588D7D.5070305@ox.compsoc.net> Gene Buckle wrote: >>>You could try here ftp://ftp.barnyard.co.uk/cpm/ . >>> >>Thanks Dan, I'll give it a shot. >> > FYI, there's no response at that address. Works For Me :-) If that doesn't work, the guy who owns that site has it mirrored on my server (and on a higher-bandwidth connection) - ftp://eco.li/cpm/ Dan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 17 11:59:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: free TLZ09-AA, RZ25, MMJ cables In-Reply-To: <200403171630.i2HGUfbj025663@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Don Mitchell > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:31 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: free TLZ09-AA, RZ25, MMJ cables > > but...it doesn't work. In what way doesn't it work? Cheers w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 17 12:30:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Found was Re: Setup disk for HP Vectra ES? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040317120852.008cd880@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040317133053.008d1510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Never mind. I found one in an old computer here. Joe At 12:08 PM 3/17/04 -0500, you wrote: > I pickup two HP Vectra ES/12 computers last week with the HP 82321 BASIC >Language Processor cards in them. But they've been sitting long enough that >the CMOS batteries have died and now they don't recognize the hard drives. >Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the CMOS setup program? The >Vectra ES computers aren't even listed on HP's (or I should say Compaq's!) >website any more and I've searched the net and can't find it there either. >I think the BIOS was written by Phoenix and I thought I'd try their setup >program but I can't even find an old version that on the net. Phoenix's >site now only talks about AWARD BIOS since they bought them out. > > Joe > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Mar 17 13:05:23 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Wrong formula? Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub Message-ID: Faulty Capacitors information link I found http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/resource/feb03/ncap.html Thanks Mike From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 14:19:41 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040317201941.64426.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: Lyos, I'll explain to you why asking $25 for a non-working TI 99/4a is ludicrous: 1) They are quite common, and even $25 would be a stretch for a working one in good condition 2) Complete, WORKING systems can be found on eBay for under $15 3) Trying to sell a non-working unit with missing keys and case damage is pretty laughable Dang... I was hoping some one would want it either as spare parts or for a machine they can experiment with. Oh well. If anyone wants it make me an offer or a trade. You need to put a little bit more effort into understanding the economic realities of this hobby. I understand most of it... I just misjudged the price of this thing. Guess I shoulda done a little more research eh? And JUST because I'm a nice guy, send me your address and I'll send you a //c power supply since I just found a stash of them. You can keep your TI 99/4a. Thanks Sellam... I'll send it in a private message. Lyos Gemini Norezel Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From vguyot at ubu.enst.fr Wed Mar 17 12:38:47 2004 From: vguyot at ubu.enst.fr (Vincent Guyot) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: about 4952A Message-ID: hello, I read on http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002205.html you searched a copy of the terminal emulator. I just get a 4952A unit, with a POD cable (AUI male - AUI female I guess) and this disc containing the terminal emulator. But I don't have any manual. Have you finally found the disk? If not, I could try to send you a copy of mine. Do you have a manual, explaining how to use this terminal emulator? I can't figure how to get it working.. regards, vg From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 17 07:06:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Watch the Screen Savers on TechTV tonight Message-ID: Be sure to catch me on The Screen Savers on TechTV tonight. Check your local listings for air times. http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3633122,00.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 17 15:09:28 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Magazines available (SF Bay Area) References: <000001c40b04$d0d32610$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <008e01c40c64$22917f00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:14 PM Subject: Magazines available (SF Bay Area) > Hello All, > > I've got a large pile of magazines that I'm getting rid of. If you're > interested in any of these they are yours for the asking (or for > shipping/packing if you aren't local.) > > If I can't find any takers by Wednesday 3/22 then it's off to the > recycler. > > What I've got is: > > PC Magazine: Jan 1985 through Dec. 19, 1995 (11 years), with only 2 > missing in 1992. > > PC World: 1985 through Dec., 1994 (10 years), with some > missing issues in 1987 and 1988. > > Personal Computing: April 1985 through August 1990, and May 1993 through > April 2000. > > There may be a few more or a few less. This was a quick-scan inventory. > > Please let me know if you'd like any of them. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > I think you can ship up to 70lbs media mail for $22 I wouldn't mind some issues (any magazine) from 89-91 for my collection assuming somebody hasn't snapped them up yet. From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Mar 17 15:36:43 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: More interesting reading on the Apollo 11 LM References: <4057A0A9.15EEFCC@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <16472.50411.867000.212653@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "jim" == jim writes: jim> also of some interest are the addenda to the Apollo Lunar jim> Surface Journal in the section about the first landing. I'll jim> save you having to read all that to find the computer related jim> articles, but recommend you do so anyway jim> ... jim> http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11.1201-fm.html Interesting. The "Software engineering postscript" contains a justification for priority based RTOS design that's filled with misstatements. Competently implemented round robin schedulers do not (cannot) fail in the bizarre ways claimed; in fact failure modes like that are common to interrupt driven (priority) designs. It's disconcerting to read misinformation of that magnitude. paul From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Mar 17 16:04:44 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: FS: SparcServer 1000 & SparcStorage Array] In-Reply-To: <1079319354.20229.1.camel@thor> References: <1079319354.20229.1.camel@thor> Message-ID: <20040317220444.GA27538@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Brian Wheeler, from writings of Sun, Mar 14, 2004 at 09:55:54PM -0500: > 2x 60MHz SuperSPARC Modules (501-2519) Those are fun toys... alas, from what I can tell, there's no way to add audio capability to them (or am I mistaken?). > 256M RAM (8x 32M) ...and expandable to much more. I've got nearly 1GB of RAM in mine. > 1G Drive in SparcServer > 18x 1G Drives in Storage Array Now that storage array would really be a fun toy for someone to collect! (and all the more fun after they install some larger hard drives in it) > Terms: > I WILL NOT SHIP THIS HEAVY MONSTER! I'm in Bloomington, IN. Well, those are slightly heavy; I remember the fun of carrying mine away from the seller during a hamfest several years ago... and the fun of getting it down the basement stairs by myself. > I'm asking $200 or best reasonable offer by Fri, Mar 19. Hopefully you're not going to put this in a dumpster or send it off for destruction (a.k.a. "recycling"), as it is a rather nice toy to play with. The large fans sound nice. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Mar 17 16:04:53 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Dragon 32/64 References: <00cd01c40b98$83500310$0700000a@m3dlg> Message-ID: <00bc01c40c6d$7ae345e0$204b4ed5@geoff> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragonuser/ All human ( and non-human ) life is there. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ (M1DLG)" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: Re: Dragon 32/64 > anyone here with any experence with these, as i have a badly damaged power > supply board, has been damaged since around 1994 when it fell out of the > loft (owing to my mum religating everything i owned then out of the way.) > the loft to floor fall was 12-15 feet, and it is my dream to have the whole > thing working once again. > > dj > > if there is anyone with an old one with mind to sell or any circuit diagrams > to offer then please let me know. i am also looking to convert the cassette > tapes of the games and other software i have stashed to CD as this is only a > theory that it could work i would like to know if anyone has done this > before. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Mattel intellivision > > > > Hi folks, > > > > Anyone have any troubleshooting expertise on these things? Got one of my > > spares out for sale and typically the bloody thing is pretty dead. I say > > *pretty* dead 'cos I get the cart intro screen on power up, but with the > > computer module attached I get nothing. I've left it powered up for 15 > > minutes in case it's a warm up problem but that makes matters worse :) > > > > According to the service manual I have to replace either the RAM or CPU in > > that order, but since spares for those will come from working > intellivisions > > I don't want to do that! Also, off the top of my head I can't think of any > > other videogames that use the General Instruments GI1610 CPU, assuming > it's > > that that's croaked. The RAM is a GI-specific chip too. Spares, anyone? > > > > TIA :) > > > > -- > > Adrian/Witchy > > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer > museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 17 16:52:34 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) In-Reply-To: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200403171752.34231.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On March 17, 2004 12:26 am, Lyos Norezel wrote: > When you try to get help for your problems, you seem to go out of your way > to make it difficult. The problem doesn't seem to be AOL or your parents or > Windows or whatever. It's you. Do some basic research and install some > decent tools (of which there are many free ones available). Hide them from > your parents if need be. > > Me dad is smarter then he appears... he knows enough to check certain > unalterable system logs, that record all system activity. So installing > programs is out of the question. Downloading is allowed as long as I don't > exceed 1GB of file space they've "alloted" me. Try knoppix or one of the other bootable cd's It will let you save your stuff to a usb device and when you reboot there will be no trace of your exitance - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAWNayLPrIaE/xBZARAmXaAKDGVpXdO7DaW6ZfxfMZ4SKfwacicwCfZVoP sf27kOTgblahx6wmfOejS00= =U1UX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From acme at gbronline.com Wed Mar 17 17:27:08 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) References: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040317120145.008bee50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00c001c40c77$5e5b4da0$464f0945@thegoodw> Hey Joe -- My classiccmp email-box has been offline for almost three days. What's up with this guy? Isn't he the same person who couldn't tell his ass from an ampere and was arguing with everyone about power adaptors? Later -- Glen 0/0 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Re:Strange Computer (take 2) > At 11:44 AM 3/17/04 -0500, John A. > wrote: > >> From: Lyos Norezel > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:26 AM > > > >Please act politely or I will take active measures > >to prevent you from posting to this list. > >Simply put, You are Not free to be an asshole, here. > > Well put. I'll be glad to help. Lyos is already in my kill-file. He's > done nothing but complain, argue and whine since he joined this list. > > Joe > From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 17 17:46:46 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Fw: Re:Strange Computer (take 2) Message-ID: <006e01c40c7a$1be914e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > No, not at all. I don't see any "obstacles", only whining and > inconsequential blathering. > > Look bud... This thread has gone on long enough, it's not really appropriate for the list. Please take it to private email if you deem the "tit for tat" worthy of the bandwidth. It's not worthy of mine. Jay From acme at gbronline.com Wed Mar 17 17:49:00 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Oops Message-ID: <00f801c40c7a$6c3d0be0$464f0945@thegoodw> Sorry, that was meant to be private. Glen 0/0 From tradde at excite.com Wed Mar 17 18:30:58 2004 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV Message-ID: <20040318003058.C744C3E07@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com> Very interesting segment on old storage media. I remember punch cards, paper tape, huge fixed head hard drives, etc. The article he wrote is also very interesting too. I loved the patch panel for the IBM machine. Have not seen one of those in a long long time. I did take a class in high school that taught us how to program a tabulating machine. Way to go Sellam. Tim Radde _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 17 17:24:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Strange Computer (take 2) References: <20040317052600.3755.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005901c40c76$fad71390$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > No, not at all. I don't see any "obstacles", only whining and > inconsequential blathering. > > Look bud... This thread has gone on long enough, it's not really appropriate for the list. Please take it to private email if you deem the "tit for tat" worthy of the bandwidth. It's not worthy of mine. Jay From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Mar 17 18:48:37 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: SCSI question, sorta OT Message-ID: <4058F1E5.AB0E9D1E@ccp.com> Now that drives are getting cheaper, sorta --- Can I use an Ultra 160 hard drive with my AHA-2940UW with other single ended drives attached to the 68 pin buss? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 17 18:47:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV References: <20040318003058.C744C3E07@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <009e01c40c82$a9044e50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Way to go Sellam! You look younger than I had imagined *duck* So now that they are done with the show, you won't be needing that H214 anymore right? Where was the plug for the classiccmp list, hummm?? :) Jay From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 17 19:08:06 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: SCSI question, sorta OT In-Reply-To: <4058F1E5.AB0E9D1E@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Mar 17, 2004 06:48:37 PM Message-ID: <200403180108.i2I186bA026172@onyx.spiritone.com> > Now that drives are getting cheaper, sorta --- ?!?! They are? > Can I use an Ultra 160 hard drive with my AHA-2940UW with other single > ended drives attached to the 68 pin buss? I use U160 HD's on UW controllers without any problem. IIRC, they have to be set to SE, rather than LVD. Zane From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 17 19:15:31 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) Message-ID: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have a heath ET-34 microprocessor lab, 6809 based I think. I'd like to find the expansion unit for it, I think it's called ET-34A - the one that gives it BASIC and such. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 17 19:25:08 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: SCSI question, sorta OT In-Reply-To: <4058F1E5.AB0E9D1E@ccp.com> References: <4058F1E5.AB0E9D1E@ccp.com> Message-ID: <181DEF54-787B-11D8-8364-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Mar 17, 2004, at 6:48 PM, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Now that drives are getting cheaper, sorta --- > > Can I use an Ultra 160 hard drive with my AHA-2940UW with other single > ended drives attached to the 68 pin buss? yep. Some LVD drives default to SE when there are SE devices on the bus, or when the bus itself is single-ended. Some drives have a jumper to force SE operation. Doc From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Mar 17 20:00:41 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: PDP-8 TSS/2 In-Reply-To: <181DEF54-787B-11D8-8364-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: I (finally) have a running PDP-8 environment (still no TU-56 drvies though )..... I have 4K Disk Monitor and OS/8 systems up and running. I am looking to get a full TSS/8 environment operational. While I have found some leads on the Monitor, I have not been able to locate the complete distribution package. If anyone has some leads, I would greatly appreicate hearing from you. Also any leads on an EduSystem Distribution... Thanks in Advance.... See you all at VCF East!!!!!!!! From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 17 20:15:10 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV References: <20040318003058.C744C3E07@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <01ae01c40c8e$d8d20b70$b4406b43@66067007> Very good show and I was ready with vcr this time so I have it on tape. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV > > Very interesting segment on old storage media. I remember punch cards, > paper tape, huge fixed head hard drives, etc. The article he wrote is > also very interesting too. I loved the patch panel for the IBM machine. > Have not seen one of those in a long long time. I did take a class in high school that taught us how to program a tabulating machine. Way > to go Sellam. > Tim Radde > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Mar 17 20:18:44 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV Message-ID: <1d8.1cab029a.2d8a6104@aol.com> What program? Please! and times if possible..... Thanks, Paxton Astoria, OR From chd_1 at nktelco.net Wed Mar 17 20:34:37 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> References: <200403162229.08970.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <40590ABD.1060006@nktelco.net> meltie wrote: >Hey Guys > >I've got a few DEChub90s - sweet things they are too. However, I don't wnt >the bulk of them at the moment until we move to the New House. > >I'd like to run one of the modules - a DECserver90TL, not that it matters >really which module it is - standalone. > >There's the largeish 16x3 rectangular backplane connector, and a smaller >DIN-ish port. Where does the PSU connect on models that were born to be >standalone? > > > I have one of these DECserver90TL's too and it came with the WRONG external power supply so I had to figure it out for myself. ascii art of the multipin connector: GGGPPP +---------~------+ |ooooooooo~oooooo| | | |ooooooooo~oooooo| +--------~-----+ =============~========== The picture is looking into the back of the unit with the narrow end of the connector down. The pins at the top marked G are ground and the pins marked P are +5V. I eventually rewired my PS to fix the DIN connector, but my notes don't show how I did it... >TIA >alex/melt > > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 17 20:58:06 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: <20040318003058.C744C3E07@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: > Very interesting segment on old storage media. I remember punch cards, > paper tape, huge fixed head hard drives, etc. The article he wrote is > also very interesting too. I loved the patch panel for the IBM machine. > Have not seen one of those in a long long time. I did take a class in high school that taught us how to program a tabulating machine. Way > to go Sellam. > Tim Radde I'd love to have one of those huge drive platters to hang on my office wall next to the 14" one I have now. :) g. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 17 13:16:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: <009e01c40c82$a9044e50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > Way to go Sellam! You look younger than I had imagined *duck* Huh? I'm 17!!! > So now that they are done with the show, you won't be needing that H214 > anymore right? Yep, I'm ripping the core out and framing it for hanging. > Where was the plug for the classiccmp list, hummm?? :) I was only allotted 3 plugs :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Mar 17 21:29:19 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 11:16, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > > Way to go Sellam! You look younger than I had imagined *duck* > > Huh? I'm 17!!! 17 whats? decades, centuries ... ;-) > > So now that they are done with the show, you won't be needing that H214 > > anymore right? > > Yep, I'm ripping the core out and framing it for hanging. Oh, great.... lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 17 21:37:46 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV References: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <010b01c40c9a$61436480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > > Yep, I'm ripping the core out and framing it for hanging. I was looking for the disclaimer in the fine print after the show, that "No computers were harmed in the production of this film". J From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 17 21:34:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Oops In-Reply-To: <00f801c40c7a$6c3d0be0$464f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040317223409.0081fd60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> That's ok. I think we all feel the same way. I'll respond privately to your message. Joe At 06:49 PM 3/17/04 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry, that was meant to be private. > >Glen >0/0 > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 17 22:11:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <20040317200720.I82689@newshell.lmi.net> > > > Way to go Sellam! You look younger than I had imagined *duck* > > Huh? I'm 17!!! On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > 17 whats? decades, centuries ... ;-) Wouldn't Feb 29, 1936 would be about 17 now? From bdwheele at indiana.edu Wed Mar 17 22:36:33 2004 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: FS: SparcServer 1000 & SparcStorage Array] In-Reply-To: <20040317220444.GA27538@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <1079319354.20229.1.camel@thor> <20040317220444.GA27538@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1079584593.27318.2.camel@thor> I found a buyer, so that's pretty cool. Normally if I can't sell something I let it sit in my basement until I get around to offering it up again. Destroying old hardware should be considered a crime...maybe we should all write our congresspeople :) The fans _do_ sound nice (despite the thread earlier this year on the sun rescue list would have you believe) but it sucks a little more power than I'd like... Brian On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 17:04, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Brian Wheeler, from writings of Sun, Mar 14, 2004 at 09:55:54PM -0500: > > 2x 60MHz SuperSPARC Modules (501-2519) > > Those are fun toys... alas, from what I can tell, there's no way to add > audio capability to them (or am I mistaken?). > > > 256M RAM (8x 32M) > > ...and expandable to much more. I've got nearly 1GB of RAM in mine. > > > 1G Drive in SparcServer > > 18x 1G Drives in Storage Array > > Now that storage array would really be a fun toy for someone to collect! > (and all the more fun after they install some larger hard drives in it) > > > Terms: > > I WILL NOT SHIP THIS HEAVY MONSTER! I'm in Bloomington, IN. > > Well, those are slightly heavy; I remember the fun of carrying mine > away from the seller during a hamfest several years ago... and the fun > of getting it down the basement stairs by myself. > > > I'm asking $200 or best reasonable offer by Fri, Mar 19. > > Hopefully you're not going to put this in a dumpster or send it off > for destruction (a.k.a. "recycling"), as it is a rather nice toy to > play with. The large fans sound nice. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 17 14:50:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > Way to go Sellam! You look younger than I had imagined *duck* > > > > Huh? I'm 17!!! > > 17 whats? decades, centuries ... ;-) 17 Mars years :) > > Yep, I'm ripping the core out and framing it for hanging. > > Oh, great.... Just kidding...it's going into my scrap gold bin :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From n8uhn at yahoo.com Thu Mar 18 00:52:38 2004 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: Sellam on Tech Tv/data records In-Reply-To: <200403171752.i2HHqKJ8070036@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040318065238.63759.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Good bit on early storage devices, Sellam. before the beginning of the story a host showed a mag that had a evatone like record with programs on it. how did one use the record? my guess is that you had to copy the record to cassette tape then load that into the comp. Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Mar 18 05:16:13 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: about 4952A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040318111613.GB4159@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 07:38:47PM +0100, Vincent Guyot wrote: > I just get a 4952A unit, with a POD cable (AUI male - AUI female I guess) > and this disc containing the terminal emulator. But I don't have any > manual. I also have a few HP line monitors, two with TU-58-style tape transports, and one 4952C(?) with 3.5" floppy. I do not have the terminal emulator software for mine. My recollection is that through the 4952, you can make an archival copy, but the process somehow marks the source disk as having been backed up. Does anyone know if it's possible to manipulate these disks in PeeCee-ish boxes? I don't know anything about the format, except that they probably use "1MB unformatted" floppies (i.e., formatted to 880K in an Amiga, 720K in a DOS box, etc.) These things are lots of fun, especially when you are trying to debug protocol bugs on sync modem lines. At Software Results, we programmed one to emulate an IBM Mainframe and I/O controller (SNA PU Type 5?) to test signon bugs. The real problem was having to send RR (Receiver Ready) packets. There was enough RAM in the HP to get as far as the SNA BIND, then it just looped. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Mar-2004 00:09 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -73.8 F (-58.8 C) Windchill -102.1 F (-74.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.9 kts Grid 135 Barometer 680.5 mb (10607. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 18 05:59:43 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:08 2005 Subject: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub In-Reply-To: <20040316021053.SNJY2607.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: 15 March 2004 21:12 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub > > Beauiful photo of this swelled up electrolytic capacitor. :-) > What is that digital photo camera? It's a Fuji 6800Zoom plus tripod 'cos without one I've never been able to get a really clear shake-free picture; witness most of the pix on Binary Dinosaurs :) > The 7 legged "transistor" is a efficient regulator IC switcher that > down converts input voltage to specific voltage. Good to about 1 > amp or so with little heatsinking. This is a 3 year old 3com hub so I'd assume efficient technology in there.... > That whistle is the noise of that regulator switcher it works > at high freq. They runs too high freqs to hear but when they > get loaded down or bad caps, they decrease in PWM (more ON > time) trying to keep voltage up (more power transfer, then u > can hear the noise. The swelled up cap is already GONE btw. Ah right! Ta for that - I was wondering how a bust cap could make noise! Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 18 06:05:10 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power brick In-Reply-To: <405721BA.6090406@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: Eh? How come this has just appeared in my inbox? As soon as I posted I'd refreshed the page and it worked so I posted another message saying so...... > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 16 March 2004 15:48 > To: General@deimos.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@deimos.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine > power brick > > Try reloading... > > > Curt > > > Witchy wrote: > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > >>Sent: 16 March 2004 14:21 > >>To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > >>Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >>Subject: Re: Attn: Curt in particular - Atari Video Machine power > >>brick > >> > >>Hi Adrian, > >> > >> Here is a direct link the Video Music Section of the > Atari Museum: > >> > >>http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/videomusic/vid > >>eomusic.html > >> > >>You'll find instructions and at the bottom of the page Side > A & B for > >>the schematics for the Video Music. > >> > >> > > > >Hi Curt, > > > >That's the page I was talking about - all the links including the > >pictures are dead.... > > > >Cheers > > > >-- > >Adrian/Witchy > >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online > computer > >museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic > shenanigans :o( > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Curt Vendel & Karl Morris > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > The Atari Museum > http://www.atarimuseum.com > > The Atari Explorer > http://www.atari-explorer.com > > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 18 06:13:31 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd In-Reply-To: <008f01c40a20$d62b7520$6a1787d9@agamemnon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Williams > Sent: 15 March 2004 00:03 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: Apple Lisa Schematics or Parts Wtd > Hi Folks! > > Thanks for all the replies :) > Will probably buy one of those IO boards from John Woodall. > However, before I do, I'd like to confirm that its the IO > board that's duff on this machine. > Anybody got access to a Lisa who could tell me what it does > when powered up with out the IO board installed? Eep - I've already killed mine once and it cost me twice what I paid for it to get it running again! Not sure I want to go thru that again.....however, I've got the full Lisa docset here so I can tell you what 3a means..... Cheers w From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Mar 18 06:49:08 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: partnumber Rk611 backplane Message-ID: <7386.192.18.240.4.1079614148.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Hi all, Does somebody know the partnumber of the RK611 backplane? Thanks, Ed From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Mar 18 06:47:57 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Looking for: DEC DEChub90 gear Message-ID: Hi All, To complete one of the parts of the VAXlab network, I need to get the following DEChub90-based stuff: - two (2) DEChub90 backplanes - three (3) DECrepeater 90T modules - one (1) DECbridge module for management I have the other modules, including some fun ones (LATprint, Packet Probe, bridge, router, term server). Extra DECserver 90 term servers are always welcome. Lemme know (off-list) if you have something you'd be willing to part with for a fair price! Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 18 08:36:07 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity References: <20040317201941.64426.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002601c40cf6$5a49f160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> A month ago Monday the windows source code leak happened and at least one commentator, Michelle DeLeo(sp?) of Wired magazine said that the source was "filled with profanity". I'd like to find a few sites with more information on this. Anybody have some good places to go find out more? A reply offline is fine. TIA John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Mar 18 08:47:43 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <002601c40cf6$5a49f160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040317201941.64426.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <002601c40cf6$5a49f160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3649090E-78EB-11D8-9840-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Mar 18, 2004, at 8:36 AM, John Allain wrote: > A month ago Monday the windows source code leak happened > and at least one commentator, Michelle DeLeo(sp?) of Wired magazine > said that the source was "filled with profanity". I'd like to find a > few > sites with more information on this. Anybody have some good > places to go find out more? A reply offline is fine. Just as a comparative data point - when Australia passed its blue laws, there were some concerns as to whether the Linux source would pass scrutiny. The "F Word" appears very frequently in the comments. Doc From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Mar 18 09:19:56 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: about 4952A In-Reply-To: <20040318111613.GB4159@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040318111613.GB4159@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200403180719.56119.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Ethan, On Thursday 18 March 2004 03:16, Ethan Dicks wrote: ---snip--- > These things are lots of fun, especially when you are trying to debug > protocol bugs on sync modem lines. At Software Results, we programmed > one to emulate an IBM Mainframe and I/O controller (SNA PU Type 5?) > to test signon bugs. The real problem was having to send RR (Receiver > Ready) packets. There was enough RAM in the HP to get as far as the > SNA BIND, then it just looped. Having worked with SNA, I can appreciate that even getting to a SNA BIND was a pretty big deal ;-) > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Mar-2004 00:09 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -73.8 F (-58.8 C) Windchill -102.1 F > (-74.5C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 6.9 kts Grid 135 Barometer 680.5 mb (10607. > ft) Gosh, its pretty darn cold at the South Pole today. I was in Labrador for a year and the worst it got was about -55F - although we had one day at -45F and winds of 115 mph - and I thought that was bad.... Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Mar 18 09:21:48 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <3649090E-78EB-11D8-9840-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Just as a comparative data point - when Australia passed its blue > laws, there were some concerns as to whether the Linux source would > pass scrutiny. The "F Word" appears very frequently in the comments. Yeah, I remember most of my code told tales of evil hardware bugs in the comments... :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 18 01:46:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Sellam on Tech Tv/data records In-Reply-To: <20040318065238.63759.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > Good bit on early storage devices, Sellam. Thanks. It was fun as always. > before the beginning of the story a host showed a mag > that had a evatone like record with programs on it. > > how did one use the record? > > my guess is that you had to copy the record to cassette tape then load > that into the comp. I imagine you would just connect your phonograph output to your computer's input as you would do with a cassette drive. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bill at timeguy.com Thu Mar 18 10:11:46 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <002601c40cf6$5a49f160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040318101118.I56903-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> So end-users aren't the *only* ones swearing at Windows? That's refreshing to know... :-o On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, John Allain wrote: > A month ago Monday the windows source code leak happened > and at least one commentator, Michelle DeLeo(sp?) of Wired magazine > said that the source was "filled with profanity". I'd like to find a few > sites with more information on this. Anybody have some good > places to go find out more? A reply offline is fine. > > TIA John A. > > From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Mar 18 10:42:33 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <20040318101118.I56903-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> from Bill Richman at "Mar 18, 4 10:11:46 am" Message-ID: <200403181642.IAA15648@floodgap.com> > > A month ago Monday the windows source code leak happened > > and at least one commentator, Michelle DeLeo(sp?) of Wired magazine > > said that the source was "filled with profanity". I'd like to find a few > > sites with more information on this. Anybody have some good > > places to go find out more? A reply offline is fine. > So end-users aren't the *only* ones swearing at Windows? That's > refreshing to know... :-o Bad show when it's the programmers cursing at it, though, huh? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- California, land of cereal: some fruits, nuts, and a lot of flakes. -------- From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Mar 18 11:00:16 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> OK, I give up. How do get the cover off of a micro-vax 2000? -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Mar 18 10:36:15 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: partnumber Rk611 backplane In-Reply-To: <7386.192.18.240.4.1079614148.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <7386.192.18.240.4.1079614148.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20040318173615.7066433c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:49:08 +0100 (CET) quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > Does somebody know the partnumber of the RK611 backplane? [taking RK611 backplane out of box in kitchen] Hmmm. Its very bad written on a label. I can only asume: 70-122/13 On the PCB is written: 5011919C 5411920 -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 18 11:55:00 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christopher McNabb > Sent: 18 March 2004 17:00 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Opening a VAX2000 > > OK, I give up. How do get the cover off of a micro-vax 2000? 4 screws underneath isn't it? If you've got the model that has the extra expansion plate underneath to allow connections of tape drives etc then that has to come off first. Cheers w From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 18 13:35:58 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: ST42400N? Message-ID: <200403181935.i2IJZwS31789@mwave.heeltoe.com> Anyone have a ST42400N laying around they would part with? Believe it or not, it can be reformatted to an odd block size, which is what a Symbolics lisp machine wants.... -brad From adamg at pobox.com Thu Mar 18 05:13:37 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <20040318111337.GA56684@silme.pair.com> If you Google for 90stalps there is a document where you can look up by the DExxx model number (from the module's label) whether it needs the 12/5 supply or the 5-only supply. It also gives pinouts. Note that the pinouts for the 12/5 and 5-only supplies are incompatible. IIRC you can double-check the pinout with a continuity tester. The metal bolt between the DIN and the backplane connector is grounded. The pinout in 90stalps is as viewed from the PLUG on the power supply cord. >From my notes, here is a pinout for the 5-volt-only modules as viewed from the JACK on the module. G N P |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| G K P [] | backplane conn | G P |________________| G=ground, P=+5V@2A, N=NC, K=empty this is a 7-pin mini-din, but 8-pin plugs can be used. bending one of the pins might help with insertion. ps/2 connectors will NOT work. I have thrown together a supply using a small enclosed switching supply. It works well. These days, one of those 5-volt switching wallwarts is probably also a possibility. Since DIN connectors accept fairly thin wire, you'll want to parallel 3 wires per rail (i.e. one per pin) to provide current handling capacity. -- Adam From ales at preatorian.net Wed Mar 17 17:27:49 2004 From: ales at preatorian.net (Ales Petan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: CQD220 Message-ID: HI, I have a CQD 220 controler, but unfortunatly I don't have any documentation. I don't know how to connect VT 220 to it, so I can configure it. Can you help me ? All the best Ales --------------------------- P r e a t o r i a n . n e t --------------------------- From bo_dance at yahoo.com Thu Mar 18 07:11:24 2004 From: bo_dance at yahoo.com (Thomas Bodine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: 9 track tape source Message-ID: <20040318131124.94433.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com> Hi I just bought a new nine track tape from Wiltec.com. Thats http://www.wiltec.com. Good Luck ===== #------------------------------------------------------- # Thomas Bodine, http://www.tommythegeek.com # Computer support for small business # Skipper S/V Frimi WWP 19 #1029 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Mar 18 08:09:21 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: <010b01c40c9a$61436480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <010b01c40c9a$61436480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040318085740.02542cc0@mail.n.ml.org> Can't do it. Remember last episode with classic stuff - non-Sellam (I have it on mpg I think)? The guy was in a ScreenSavers outtake. He was showing old audio recording devices and not only crushed one in his hand, but dropped what was left onto the floor while saying "oh shit" (what he was holding was supposedly 1 of only like a dozen of that unit type left). So, unfortunately, computers and devices have been harmed often on that damned show. Sometimes intentionally (former producer Sarah what's-her-name - the one who got married, pregnant and sorta left the show assaulted and destroyed one with her friend Morgan... and Patrick Norton then detroyed a computer for New Year's, etc.) and sometimes by accident (Leo once knocked one off a desk by accident and well, it wasn't pretty). -John Boffemmyer IV At 10:37 PM 3/17/2004, you wrote: > > > Yep, I'm ripping the core out and framing it for hanging. > >I was looking for the disclaimer in the fine print after the show, that "No >computers were harmed in the production of this film". > >J ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Mar 18 08:18:49 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: I saw Sellam on TechTV In-Reply-To: <010b01c40c9a$61436480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200403171929.19983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <010b01c40c9a$61436480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040318091609.0254f3f0@mail.n.ml.org> Correction from last post. It was Megan Morrone with Morgan and Jessica Lane had also attacked a PC. -John Boffemmyer IV PS: Those bastards are too ignorant for their own good; attacking poor hapless computers they don't understand... heh. At least they also make fun of Dell and "Steve" and handhelds with Mike Daisey's "Panda." At 10:37 PM 3/17/2004, you wrote: > > > Yep, I'm ripping the core out and framing it for hanging. > >I was looking for the disclaimer in the fine print after the show, that "No >computers were harmed in the production of this film". > >J ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Mar 18 10:08:16 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA455A@MAIL10> While I didn't find the nice tidy listing of all of the profanity in the Windows source code as I remembered it, I did find this site: http://mjt.nysv.org/w2k_greps/ that has the complete grep listings. Based on the file sizes, "bugbug", "stole" and "sh~t" are the biggest offenders, followed by "ugly", "sucks", "kludge" and "death". Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:22 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: OT: Windows profanity On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Just as a comparative data point - when Australia passed its blue > laws, there were some concerns as to whether the Linux source would > pass scrutiny. The "F Word" appears very frequently in the comments. Yeah, I remember most of my code told tales of evil hardware bugs in the comments... :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Mar 18 09:54:11 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4558@MAIL10> Actually this analysis was performed recently but for the life of me I can't remember where I saw it. I think I read the "curses histogram" on Slashdot but a quick search didn't produce any links. As I remember, "bugbug" was one of the top items, along with the "f-word". -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:22 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: OT: Windows profanity On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Just as a comparative data point - when Australia passed its blue > laws, there were some concerns as to whether the Linux source would > pass scrutiny. The "F Word" appears very frequently in the comments. Yeah, I remember most of my code told tales of evil hardware bugs in the comments... :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Mar 18 15:31:57 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Jay West" said: > I have a heath ET-34 microprocessor lab, 6809 based I think. I'd like to > find the expansion unit for it, I think it's called ET-34A - the one that > gives it BASIC and such. I think you meant: ET-3400 (6800) Original microprocessor trainer ET-3400A (6808) Revised version ETA-3400 Expansion unit The 3400's are common on eBay and go for very little. The expansion units are pure unobtanium and go for hundreds of dollars on the rare occasions when one shows up. For me, the price is not justified. I plan on hacking in some additional memory for mine someday. After all, there's a breadboard socket right there on the unit! Should be possible to add the BASIC as well, if someone will post the data. BTW, there's a simulator at: http://www.pilgrimworks.com/trainer.htm but I haven't tried it. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From technobug at comcast.net Thu Mar 18 15:34:09 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available In-Reply-To: <200403181800.i2II0HJ3077066@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403181800.i2II0HJ3077066@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: One of the local vintage equipment liquidators has come upon a Micro PDP-11, Model 11C23-R. If anyone is interested for about $125 I will have him put it on the Vintage Market Place... Claude From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Mar 18 15:59:16 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available In-Reply-To: References: <200403181800.i2II0HJ3077066@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040318215915.GA3959@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe CRC, from writings of Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 02:34:09PM -0700: > One of the local vintage equipment liquidators has come upon a Micro > PDP-11, Model 11C23-R. If anyone is interested for about $125 I will > have him put it on the Vintage Market Place... That much for an 11/23? Seems to be priced rather high. Several years ago, I paid US$100 for a complete PDP-11/73 system in a 5' rack with an expansion chasis, RX50, TSO5, and Fujutsu 8" hard drives; over 20 serial ports too, and the system came with TSX+, and that price was high in comparison to what I paid for my 11/44 with RL02s that also came wiht a pair of 11/03s and RX05s, etc.---the price for that was the effort of disasassembling it and hauling it away. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 18 18:10:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <3649090E-78EB-11D8-9840-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Mar 18, 4 08:47:43 am Message-ID: > Just as a comparative data point - when Australia passed its blue > laws, there were some concerns as to whether the Linux source would > pass scrutiny. The "F Word" appears very frequently in the comments. I didn't quite go that far, but in some of the code I wrote to directly access the disk controller under MS-DOS, I had comments that insulted Intel peripheral chips (which always seem to do the Wrong Thing) and the PC hardware design... -tony From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Thu Mar 18 18:43:43 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> References: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20040319004343.GA6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> There are screws in back, and the cover slides off from the front. Mine isn't exactly easy to open... something usually sticks, but the logic board should be fairly well protected by the heavy paper sheet covering its backside, which is directly under the top of the case cover. I find it helps to swing down the front part where the hard drive goes and push the hard drive while pulling the case. On a side note, my MicroVAX 2000 does not have the TK50Z attached to the bottom of it... I would guess you have to remove that part in order to get the cover off of the actual system. But, I wouldn't know for sure since I never had the TK50Z. I'd be very interested to hear more about this system if it is working... Mine will boot VMS but the ethernet doesn't work. On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 12:00:16PM -0500, Christopher McNabb wrote: > OK, I give up. How do get the cover off of a micro-vax 2000? > > -- > Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD > > -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Thu Mar 18 18:50:48 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: References: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20040319005048.GB6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Ooops... didn't notice the question had been answered, and realized witchy was right... I'd forgotten that the screws were on the bottom. Sorry! -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 18 19:01:48 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <20040319005048.GB6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Willis > Sent: 19 March 2004 00:51 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Opening a VAX2000 > > Ooops... didn't notice the question had been answered, and > realized witchy was right... I'd forgotten that the screws > were on the bottom. I was right? Yay - it's been a long time since I dismantled an MV2000 :) One of these days I'll get round to making one good one out of the 3 bad ones I've got downstairs. No need to apologise either - the more answers we get to questions the better I think! Cheers w From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 19:06:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405A4784.7020607@atarimuseum.com> I believe profanity is a common in most likely most source code. I have had the opportunity to examine extensive amounts of source code from Atari and it is filled with profanity, poems, quotes, jokes and inside-jokes... I think its a way of blowing off steam for programmers and quite frankly it adds a more personal touch to code to see that it wasn't just written by a bunch of drones, but from creative, feeling people with a sense of humor. Curt From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Mar 18 19:08:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <20040319004343.GA6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> References: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> <20040319004343.GA6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: <20040319010829.GA1966@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 05:43:43PM -0700, John Willis wrote: > On a side note, my MicroVAX 2000 does not have the TK50Z attached > to the bottom of it... I would guess you have to remove that part > in order to get the cover off of the actual system. But, I wouldn't > know for sure since I never had the TK50Z. The cable for the TK50Z comes off the mainboard of the uVAX2000... the lower skirt is present on systems with a DHT32 8-port serial adapter, or systems with an external RD54 (should be a DD50P connector for that). AFAIK, yes, you have to remove the extender before you can get to the screws to slide the main cover off. > I'd be very interested to > hear more about this system if it is working... Mine will boot VMS > but the ethernet doesn't work. Do you have the ethernet board installed internally? Every uVAX2000 has the 10Base2 BNC installed, but not every machine has the internal board with the LANCE chip (7990) plugged onto its daughter card pins. My first uVAX2000 did not have ethernet installed. It was cheaper to buy a VS2000 and mix the parts (disk, memory, Ethernet) than it was to try to _buy_ the Ethernet board as a spare. The VS2000 case I got had an AUI connector on the back that the uVAX2000 did not. For the unaware, the difference between a VAXstation 2000 and a MicroVAX 2000 is the plastic badge on the front, sometimes an add-on framebuffer in the VS2000, and the position of a jumper that identifies the CPU type as one vs the other (KA610 vs KA620?) to the ROMs. The firmware is the same, as is the default behavior when loading VMS (the VS2000 was envisioned as a personal workstation, the uVAX2000 more of a MicroVAX-II with limited peripherals). Fun machines... not quite as much fun as a Qbus box, but if what you want to do fits within the limitations of the few peripherals available, it's just as good as a BA23 MicroVAX setup. They do have an NCR 5380 chip that supposedly can be used for SCSI disk rather than just the TK50Z, but the patches to the firmware that are floating around don't match the revision in any of my boxes, and I've never spent enough time to sort things out. It's not fast, but a 1GB 3.5" disk is going to be a lot more reliable than an RD54 (and a lot easier to find). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Mar-2004 13:48 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -64.7 F (-53.8 C) Windchill -87.5 F (-66.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.2 kts Grid 187 Barometer 680.2 mb (10619. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Mar 18 19:22:55 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <20040319004343.GA6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> References: <1079629216.6653.12.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> <20040319004343.GA6583@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: <405A4B6F.7010803@4mcnabb.net> John Willis wrote: >I'd be very interested to >hear more about this system if it is working... Mine will boot VMS >but the ethernet doesn't work. > > > The system does work, and has 4M of Ram, an RX33, and no hard drive. It does have the "Pizza Box" on the bottom, and the 8 port serial thing, just no external drives. I'm not too concerned at this point, since I got the MV2000 to format hard drives with, but some day I may want to put VMS on it. I do have VMS5.2 on TK50, but I don't have the SCSI TK-50 type drive the MV2000 wants. From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 18 19:41:14 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <000d01c40d53$465bbb40$20db3fd0@DOMAIN> From: Paul Pennington > The 3400's are common on eBay and go for very little. The expansion > units are pure unobtanium and go for hundreds of dollars on the rare > occasions when one shows up. For me, the price is not justified. I plan on Not pure unobtanium... Seems like about 5 give or take a few have been sold on ebay last year including one still as a kit. Don't remember the prices but I think at least one went cheap and another for at least alot. I can account for the two I have here. One hooked up now to my 3400 nearby that runs great and so much fun especially when playing with ttl too, and another eta that's still in kit forn with everything 'cept the box it came in, and docs (Heath's Illustration Booklet, Schematics, Assembly Manual, Software Reference Manual, and the Modification Kit (back to the et-3400)) too. > hacking in some additional memory for mine someday. After all, there's a > breadboard socket right there on the unit! Should be possible to add the > BASIC as well, if someone will post the data. If someone's desperate and it's no where else on the net already. yell again. Must procrastinate. > BTW, there's a simulator at: > > http://www.pilgrimworks.com/trainer.htm > Nice but I'd rather use my real et-6800, with the cardboard case (serial #8) ;) !! > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > Hey, you're not too distant. Brunswick, Ga here. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Mar 18 21:43:43 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ethan Dicks wrote: > For the unaware, the difference between a VAXstation 2000 and a > MicroVAX 2000 is the plastic badge on the front, sometimes an > add-on framebuffer in the VS2000, and the position of a jumper > that identifies the CPU type as one vs the other (KA610 vs KA620?) No, it's KA410-A vs. KA410-B, though I don't remember which is which. KA610 is MicroVAX I. KA620 is something I've heard about, but never figured out exactly what it was. It was some kind of slightly hobbled KA630, wasn't it? Maybe a KA630 w/o FPU? Does anyone know? I'm quite curious, as that's a gap in my VAX knowledge and such gaps bother me. :-) > The firmware is the same, as is the default behavior > when loading VMS The jumper (readable via the CFGTST_MULTU bit in the Configuration and Test Register) tells the firmware and OS how to talk to the console. If MULTU=1, send/receive ASCII to/from SLU port 0 at 9600 baud. If MULTU=0, set SLU port 0 to 4800 baud instead, except LK201 keycodes instead of ASCII coming from it, and output must be scribbled on the bitmap display. MS (right in the process of coding MV/VS 2000 & 3100 support for Quasijarus) From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Mar 18 22:10:55 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403190416.XAA02123@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > KA620 is something I've heard about, but never figured out exactly > what it was. It was some kind of slightly hobbled KA630, wasn't it? Yes. > Maybe a KA630 w/o FPU? No. > Does anyone know? I do. I wrote a semi-embedded minikernel to run on one. A KA620 is the same as a KA630 except that the P0 and P1 page tables are looked up in physical memory rather than system virtual memory. (Loosely put, P0BR and P1BR need to be physical addresses rather than system-region virtual addresses.) The story I heard was that customers wanted CPU baords for multi-CPU machines, but DEC was very paranoid about people buying CPU boards and building cheap knockoff machines with substandard backplanes &c. As a result, DEC made it very hard to get a KA630 without a full system around it. But the KA620 wouldn't run VMS, so people couldn't build a knockoff VAX around it - or so the thinking went as it was explained to me - and thus was safe to sell on its own. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Mar 18 22:22:43 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <0403190422.AA12976@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > A KA620 is the same as a KA630 except that the P0 and P1 page tables > are looked up in physical memory rather than system virtual memory. Ahh, I've heard of such a beast called rtVAX. It's mentioned in VARM 2nd ed. So rtVAX and KA620 are the same thing, right? MS From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Mar 18 22:29:38 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040319042938.GA23333@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 07:43:43PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > For the unaware, the difference between a VAXstation 2000 and a > > MicroVAX 2000 is the plastic badge on the front, sometimes an > > add-on framebuffer in the VS2000, and the position of a jumper > > that identifies the CPU type as one vs the other (KA610 vs KA620?) > > No, it's KA410-A vs. KA410-B, though I don't remember which is which. Ah... that's it. > KA610 is MicroVAX I. Right. > KA620 is something I've heard about, but never figured out exactly what it was. I was thinking that the uVAX was "below" a KA630, but forgot it was KA4xx... I just threw out the KA620 number. My memory fault. > The jumper (readable via the CFGTST_MULTU bit in the Configuration and Test > Register) tells the firmware and OS how to talk to the console. If MULTU=1, > send/receive ASCII to/from SLU port 0 at 9600 baud. If MULTU=0, set SLU port 0 > to 4800 baud instead, except LK201 keycodes instead of ASCII coming from it, and > output must be scribbled on the bitmap display. Cool. I never knew the specifics, just the consequences. > MS (right in the process of coding MV/VS 2000 & 3100 support for Quasijarus) Neat. Hopefully memory won't be an issue. These things (as I'm sure you know well) don't take much, but neither does a uVAX-II (KA630). Well... it's plenty for the software of the day (and plenty for ASCII-based consoles). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Mar-2004 17:19 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -64.8 F (-53.8 C) Windchill -95.3 F (-70.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.5 kts Grid 097 Barometer 679.6 mb (10639. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:02:17 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843080@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:05:55 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843195@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:11:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843360@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:13:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843433@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:15:28 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843502@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:18:20 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843594@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:20:07 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843651@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Mar 18 23:20:39 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <0403190520.AA13136@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Cool. I never knew the specifics, just the consequences. The VAXstation 2000 and MicroVAX 2000 Technical Manual (EK-VTTAA-TM, online scan exists) is one of the most detailed technical manuals DEC has produced for any VAX. A rare treat. Too bad no similar manual exists for any of the 3100s, so I'm stuck with blindly copying Ultrix code there. > > MS (right in the process of coding MV/VS 2000 & 3100 support for Quasijarus) > > Neat. Hopefully memory won't be an issue. These things (as I'm sure you know > well) don't take much, but neither does a uVAX-II (KA630). I'm actually concentrating more on the 3100, for practical reasons (I have an MV3100 M20 which I want to migrate from Ultrix to 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, but I don't have any MV/VS2000). > Well... it's plenty for the software of the day Oh yeah, if it's enough for Ultrix it'll surely be enough for 4.3BSD-Quasijarus since unlike DEC I'm not carrying any Missed'em-five crap. Just 100% pure BSD! > (and plenty for ASCII-based consoles). Yup, though I also plan to build an X terminal product based on a VS3100, 4.3BSD-Quasijarus kernel, and X11R4 (last version before POSIX invasion). Basically like VT1300, but based on 100% open source software instead of the closed-source firmware image you download into VT1300 and VXT. The end goal is to eradicate all closed-source software. MS From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:22:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843716@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:24:11 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843781@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:26:15 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843847@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:28:21 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843914@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:30:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:09 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812843981@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:32:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844045@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:34:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844113@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:36:41 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844180@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:38:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844248@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:41:31 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844335@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:43:24 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844396@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:46:08 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844484@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:48:15 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844551@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:51:53 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844666@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:53:56 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844732@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:55:57 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844796@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Mar 18 23:58:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812844864@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Mar 18 23:58:06 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <812844551@mail.atarimuseum.com> References: <812844551@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <200403182158.06166.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Please take Curt off the list tempoarily, otherwise this out-of-office loop/ irritation will go on until his return... Lyle On Thursday 18 March 2004 21:48, Curt Vendel wrote: > You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and > will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show > from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. > > I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up > with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate > assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl > Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com > > > Thank you, > Curt Vendel > Curator: The Atari Museum -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:04:21 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845194@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:06:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845251@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:08:31 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845327@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:10:42 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845397@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:12:45 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845462@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:14:44 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845526@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:16:46 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845591@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:18:52 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845658@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:20:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845723@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:23:13 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845798@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:25:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845867@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:27:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812845945@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:29:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846007@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:32:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846080@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:34:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846155@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:36:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846232@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:38:52 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846298@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:41:07 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846371@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:43:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846438@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:45:21 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846506@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:48:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846592@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:50:10 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846661@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From ngc3052 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 18 15:22:45 2004 From: ngc3052 at hotmail.com (Nickolai A. Kobylk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: Hi, I'm just starting to get into a PDP11/83 machine I have here and I want to add some more storage but I'm having some issues. For starters this is what I got M5977-AA SCSI board (Is this the same as RQZX1?) two RZ24L 240MB HD from Quantum combo tape and 5.25 RX33 Drive All components work. But I can only get one HD to be recognized (one is ID 0 the other is set to 1). >From what I understand each drive is partitioned into 8 30MB sections, though it's accessed as just DU0. I also know that max devices I can have on the M5977 is 16. With SHOW DEVICES I see DU1, DU2 as offline and type:unknown Now for my stupid questions: Is each partition treated as 1 device (meaning can I have 2x240MB AND the tape/RX33 drives)? If so, how do I add the 2nd HD and get it recognized (LOAD? SET?)? I don't have a manual for any of this equipment, and I don't really know RSX yet. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:52:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846727@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:54:37 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812846802@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 00:57:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812846903@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:00:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847107@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:03:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847211@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:06:16 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847304@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:10:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812847435@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:12:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847511@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:14:56 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847580@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Mar 19 01:12:34 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) In-Reply-To: <0403190422.AA12976@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403190422.AA12976@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403190715.CAA26773@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> A KA620 is the same as a KA630 except that the P0 and P1 page tables >> are looked up in physical memory rather than system virtual memory. > Ahh, I've heard of such a beast called rtVAX. It's mentioned in VARM > 2nd ed. So rtVAX and KA620 are the same thing, right? Possibly - or perhaps a KA620 is one example of an rtVAX, much as a KA630 is an example of a VAX. I have never heard of an rtVAX except in passing email references like this, so I cannot speak with any authority to what such a thing is or isn't. My VARM is "Revision 6.1" and is not obviously marked with an edition number. I don't recall seeing an rtVAX mentioned in it, and the index does not list anything beginning with rt-. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:17:03 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847649@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:19:11 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812847717@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:21:21 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847786@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:23:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847851@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:25:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812847917@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:27:40 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812847988@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:30:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812848077@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:32:21 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848138@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:34:38 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848211@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:37:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812848288@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:38:53 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848346@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:41:04 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812848418@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:43:07 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:10 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848483@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:45:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848550@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:47:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812848621@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:49:30 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848687@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:51:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812848760@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:54:24 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848844@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:56:03 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812848897@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 01:58:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812848963@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:00:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849156@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:02:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812849220@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:04:27 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849293@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:06:38 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849363@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:08:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812849429@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:10:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849495@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:15:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812849655@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:17:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849723@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:20:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849792@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:22:13 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812849862@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:24:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812849927@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:26:15 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812849991@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:31:55 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850171@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:32:25 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850188@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:34:29 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812850254@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:36:33 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850320@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:38:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812850385@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:44:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850585@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:45:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850596@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:46:58 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812850653@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:49:05 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850722@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:52:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812850822@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:54:32 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850896@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:57:33 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812850992@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 02:59:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812851057@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:03:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812851300@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:05:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812851383@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:08:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812851463@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:10:28 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812851534@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:12:33 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812851600@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:15:11 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812851685@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:17:59 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812851773@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:20:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812851849@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:22:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812851923@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:26:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812852053@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:29:25 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852140@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:31:40 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812852212@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:33:58 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852285@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:35:59 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852349@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:38:05 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812852418@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:40:07 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852483@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:42:31 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812852559@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:44:32 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852624@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Mar 19 03:44:23 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD3F@nbulif015> > However it doesn't say what the calibration procedure is so I'm > not sure how you're supposed to do initial calibration of the > unit without a known-good ESR meter to use for reference... There only seems to be a zero trim for that meter so the only calibration you could do is to short the leads and adjust for zero. You can check the calibration on most ESR meters by measuring resistors instead of capacitors. Use 2% or 1% types. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:46:33 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852688@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:48:42 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812852757@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:50:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852824@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:53:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812852899@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:55:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812852967@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 03:57:15 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812853031@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:02:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812853315@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:05:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:11 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812853408@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:05:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812853419@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:07:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:11:03 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812853601@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:13:27 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812853677@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:15:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812853741@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:17:32 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812853808@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:19:44 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812853878@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:21:59 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812853949@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 19 04:24:15 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's In-Reply-To: <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> References: <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <200403191024.15269.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 19 March 2004 10:07, Curt Vendel wrote: > You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling > and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame > show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. > > I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up > with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate > assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl > Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Curt is *so* gonna get it when he gets back! I'll drop karlmorris an email to try and get him to turn Curl's autoreply off. alex/melt From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:24:04 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854018@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:26:16 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812854088@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:28:19 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854153@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Fri Mar 19 05:00:08 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 References: <812853601@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <007501c40da1$585c0d60$4601a8c0@ebrius> A-wonderful, a-wonderful, would Curt Vendel please turn off the bubble machine...! Where's Stan Freeburg when you need him? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: Opening a VAX2000 > You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. > > I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com > > > Thank you, > Curt Vendel > Curator: The Atari Museum > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:31:04 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812854242@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:33:52 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854330@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:38:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812854483@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:40:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812854553@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:42:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854619@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:44:59 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812854685@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:47:04 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854754@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 19 04:49:39 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free In-Reply-To: <20040318111337.GA56684@silme.pair.com> References: <20040318111337.GA56684@silme.pair.com> Message-ID: <200403191049.39414.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 18 March 2004 11:13, Adam Goldman wrote: > If you Google for 90stalps there is a document where you can look up by > the DExxx model number (from the module's label) whether it needs the > 12/5 supply or the 5-only supply. It also gives pinouts. Note that the > pinouts for the 12/5 and 5-only supplies are incompatible. > > IIRC you can double-check the pinout with a continuity tester. The metal > bolt between the DIN and the backplane connector is grounded. > > The pinout in 90stalps is as viewed from the PLUG on the power supply > cord. > > From my notes, here is a pinout for the 5-volt-only modules as viewed > from the JACK on the module. > > G N P |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| > G K P [] | backplane conn | > G P |________________| > > G=ground, P=+5V@2A, N=NC, K=empty > this is a 7-pin mini-din, but 8-pin plugs can be used. bending one of > the pins might help with insertion. ps/2 connectors will NOT work. > > I have thrown together a supply using a small enclosed switching supply. > It works well. These days, one of those 5-volt switching wallwarts is > probably also a possibility. > > Since DIN connectors accept fairly thin wire, you'll want to parallel 3 > wires per rail (i.e. one per pin) to provide current handling capacity. > > -- Adam Wonderful! I found the document in a single search, and it's really helpful, as are you :) Thanks! alex/melt From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:49:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854822@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:51:17 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812854888@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:54:19 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812854985@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:56:30 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812855055@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 04:58:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812855127@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:00:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812855320@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:03:07 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812855395@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:05:15 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812855463@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:07:17 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <812855528@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:09:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812855603@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:12:02 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812855681@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:14:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812855750@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:16:20 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812855818@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Mar 19 05:16:58 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Looks like Curt will be commenting on everything for a while :-) In-Reply-To: <812846298@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <200403191117.GAA16275@smtp.9netave.com> Ahh, perfect -- a weekend-long flood of "I'm not home at the moment" messages... On the other hand, this "Phillyclassic 5 videogame show" sounds interesting. -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:39 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Opening a VAX2000 You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:18:24 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812855884@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:20:35 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812855953@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Mar 19 05:20:30 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) In-Reply-To: <200403191024.15269.lists@microvax.org> References: <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040319111553.03815518@pop.freeserve.net> At 10:24 19/03/2004 +0000, meltie wrote: >On Friday 19 March 2004 10:07, Curt Vendel wrote: > > You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling > > and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame > > show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. > > > > I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up > > with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate > > assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl > > Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com > >Curt is *so* gonna get it when he gets back! > >I'll drop karlmorris an email to try and get him to turn Curl's autoreply >off. > >alex/melt He's using some seriously broken software to do these ... every out of office / vacation software I have seen keeps track of whom it sent a reply to, so they only receive one copy ... What sensible person actually uses these anyway? (Hello, I'm on holiday for a few days, please burgle my property! ) Be thankful he's not quoting the original email back in the autoreply; at the rate this is looping, we'd end up with massive messages! Maybe it's just a stealth tactic to advertise the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show! Rob From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:22:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812856027@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:25:02 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812856097@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:27:16 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <812856168@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:29:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812856235@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:31:31 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812856303@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 19 05:35:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Curt In-Reply-To: <812854822@mail.atarimuseum.com> References: <812854822@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <1079696104.21916.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Arghhhhh! > If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance > and access to our archives and materials, please contact > Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com has anyone tried contacting this Karl chap just on the offchance that he has control over the same mail server that Curt uses? (or better still set up a rule to bounce all incoming mail from Curt to him ;) Gawd I hate out-of-office reply crap :-( cheers Jules From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:34:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812856411@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:37:11 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812856485@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:39:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Looks like Curt will be commenting on everything for a while :-) Message-ID: <812856550@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:41:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812856615@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:43:19 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812856681@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:45:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) Message-ID: <812856753@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:47:41 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812856820@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:49:46 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812856887@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:51:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <812856952@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:54:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812857031@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:56:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:12 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812857097@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 05:59:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <812857207@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:01:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812857403@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:04:52 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812857498@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:07:36 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Looks like Curt will be commenting on everything for a while :-) Message-ID: <812857586@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:09:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812857656@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:11:53 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812857722@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 06:13:30 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: echo... Message-ID: <19030479.15189@webbox.com> sorry, couldn't help this one. I would suggest that everyone just ignores (don't send any email!) the list until Curt's issue is resolved. Maybe the moderator can filter him out until he gets back. Everytime we send something, Curt is going to respond. To make matters worse, even his response to himself responds again (at least it seems that way due to the fifty+ VAX messages I had from Curt this morning). The response to the response appears to at least not be instantaneous... best regards, Steve Thatcher From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:13:55 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) Message-ID: <812857787@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:16:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812857862@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:18:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812857944@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:21:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <812858027@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:24:35 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812858129@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:27:03 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812858209@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:29:33 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <812858288@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:31:35 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812858353@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:33:38 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812858419@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:36:44 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Looks like Curt will be commenting on everything for a while :-) Message-ID: <812858518@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:38:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812858584@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:41:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812858656@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:43:10 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: echo... Message-ID: <812858725@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:48:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) Message-ID: <812858893@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:51:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812858997@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:53:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812859064@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 19 06:52:02 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Yeah, I remember most of my code told tales of evil hardware > bugs in the comments... :) Well, I've done it before: "What kind of brain-damaged drone designed this piece of (excrement)?" "This compiler needs a rewrite. Preferably by someone who isn't a (*beep*)ing moron" "Now for something pointless and unnecessary" (just before a "write the same thing to a port ten times" loop) "The (*beep*)head who designed this API should be hung, drawn and quartered" As you can probably guess, I haven't had much luck with compilers, especially the MICROS~1 compiler. Now to find a way to design a GPIB protocol stack without the IEEE488.1 standards document or a known-working GPIB controller or peripheral. Or cables. Fun! Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Only adults have problems with childproof caps. From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 19 06:55:17 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt In-Reply-To: <1079696104.21916.11.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <812854822@mail.atarimuseum.com> <1079696104.21916.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403191255.17508.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 19 March 2004 11:35, Jules Richardson wrote: > Arghhhhh! > > > If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance > > and access to our archives and materials, please contact > > Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com > > has anyone tried contacting this Karl chap just on the offchance that he > has control over the same mail server that Curt uses? I've dropped him an email, but I doubt he can do anything about it. Wonder when Jay wakes up... Anyway, anything with "Curt" in the From: box goes to /dev/null for now. alex/melt From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:55:56 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <812859132@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 06:58:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812859200@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:00:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812859417@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:02:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <812859479@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:05:11 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812859557@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:07:28 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812859630@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:09:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Looks like Curt will be commenting on everything for a while :-) Message-ID: <812859697@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:11:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812859768@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:20:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt In-Reply-To: <812858288@mail.atarimuseum.com> References: <812858288@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <405AF3AB.8010001@atarimuseum.com> Ok, I think I've sorted it Dan From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:14:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812859843@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:16:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: echo... Message-ID: <812859913@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:18:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) Message-ID: <812859979@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:20:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812860049@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:22:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812860121@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:25:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity Message-ID: <812860192@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 19 07:21:06 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: curt out of office Message-ID: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I really hate doing it, but the only thing I could think of was to temporarily disable his subscription :\ Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:27:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <812860265@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:29:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Setting a DECserver free Message-ID: <812860331@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:31:28 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812860398@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:33:35 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) Message-ID: <812860465@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:36:29 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <812860558@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:38:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812860632@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:41:14 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812860711@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:43:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Looks like Curt will be commenting on everything for a while :-) Message-ID: <812860793@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Mar 19 07:53:29 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <405AFB59.8080508@ntlworld.com> I tried sending a unsubscribe with his email address, hopefully he should automatically reply to the unsubscribe message. Dan From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:45:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812860841@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:46:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's Message-ID: <812860864@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:48:16 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:13 2005 Subject: Curt Message-ID: <812860936@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:50:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812861013@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:53:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: echo... Message-ID: <812861092@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:55:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) Message-ID: <812861169@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:57:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub) Message-ID: <812861237@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 07:59:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812861305@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Mar 19 08:00:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 Message-ID: <812861453@mail.atarimuseum.com> You've reached Curt Vendel of the Atari Museum. I will be travelling and will be exhibiting the Atari Museum at the Phillyclassic 5 videogame show from March 19-21 and will be returning on March 22nd. I will try to respond to your emails between the 22nd-23rd as I catch up with my email. If this is an urgent issue and you need immediate assistance and access to our archives and materials, please contact Karl Morris at: karlmorris@atarimuseum.com Thank you, Curt Vendel Curator: The Atari Museum From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Mar 19 08:08:14 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 (was Opening a VAX2000) In-Reply-To: <200403190715.CAA26773@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <0403190422.AA12976@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200403190715.CAA26773@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >> A KA620 is the same as a KA630 except that the P0 and P1 page tables > >> are looked up in physical memory rather than system virtual memory. > > Ahh, I've heard of such a beast called rtVAX. It's mentioned in VARM > > 2nd ed. So rtVAX and KA620 are the same thing, right? > > Possibly - or perhaps a KA620 is one example of an rtVAX, much as a > KA630 is an example of a VAX. I have never heard of an rtVAX except in > passing email references like this, so I cannot speak with any > authority to what such a thing is or isn't. > > My VARM is "Revision 6.1" and is not obviously marked with an edition > number. I don't recall seeing an rtVAX mentioned in it, and the index > does not list anything beginning with rt-. The 2nd Ed VARM has a section on rtVAX memory management, 11.2.3 on pgs 422-424. I don't yet see any other mentions of it the book to indicate whether it actually is designated as the KA620. -brian. From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 19 08:11:15 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: curt out of office In-Reply-To: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200403191411.15370.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 19 March 2004 13:20, Dan Williams wrote: > Ok, I think I've sorted it > > Dan && On Friday 19 March 2004 13:21, Jay West wrote: > I really hate doing it, but the only thing I could think of was to > temporarily disable his subscription :\ Thanks guys :| alex/melt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 19 08:17:15 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: curt out of office In-Reply-To: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Nice one Jay, it was either that or have us all drowning in OOO replies by monday! > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: 19 March 2004 13:21 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: curt out of office > > I really hate doing it, but the only thing I could think of > was to temporarily disable his subscription :\ > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 08:23:29 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: curt out of office Message-ID: <19030479.23005@webbox.com> maybe the retribution will be that his software will respond to every email the list sends back that tells him his email was not accetped. He will come home to 823,876 emails in his inbox... >--- Original Message --- >From: "Jay West" >To: >Date: 3/19/04 8:21:06 AM > I really hate doing it, but the only thing I could think of was to >temporarily disable his subscription : >Jay > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Mar 19 08:50:52 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: echo... In-Reply-To: <19030479.15189@webbox.com> References: <19030479.15189@webbox.com> Message-ID: <200403190650.52636.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I just "told" my SPAM filter (Spam Assassin) that Curt's EMAIL was "blacklisted" and no more Curt SPAM... Lyle On Friday 19 March 2004 04:13, wrote: > sorry, couldn't help this one. I would suggest that everyone > just ignores (don't send any email!) the list until Curt's issue > is resolved. Maybe the moderator can filter him out until he > gets back. Everytime we send something, Curt is going to respond. > To make matters worse, even his response to himself responds > again (at least it seems that way due to the fifty+ VAX messages > I had from Curt this morning). The response to the response appears > to at least not be instantaneous... > > best regards, Steve Thatcher -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Mar 19 08:52:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040319145200.GA29971@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 12:52:02PM +0000, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Now to find a way to design a GPIB protocol stack without the IEEE488.1 > standards document or a known-working GPIB controller or peripheral. Or > cables. Fun! There's a great book c. 1980 by Osbourne Press, "PET CBM and the IEEE-488 Bus (GPIB)", Eugene and Jensen, C.W. Fisher, that focuses on the Commodore implementation of the GPIB, but nonetheless, has some good, basic, bit-level explanations of the GPIB. There are some freeware products you can use to experiment with the GPIB... VICE (a PET/C-64 emulator) is complete enough that you can write programs to set talkers and listeners, and develop application code in BASIC or assembler to "talk" to a Commodore device. If you are trying to talk to, say, an HP GPIB disk drive, you'll only find basic information, but it's a start. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Mar-2004 03:39 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -56.4 F (-49.1 C) Windchill -84.7 F (-64.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.4 kts Grid 037 Barometer 681.3 mb (10575. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Mar 19 08:58:26 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available Message-ID: For an 11/23, I'd offer $50. I can't think that it's worth too much more than that nowadays... CRC cc: Sent by: Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available cctech-bounces@clas siccmp.org 03/18/2004 03:34 PM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" One of the local vintage equipment liquidators has come upon a Micro PDP-11, Model 11C23-R. If anyone is interested for about $125 I will have him put it on the Vintage Market Place... Claude From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 19 10:09:44 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: CQD220 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040319160944.4089.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Well I have a COPY of CQD-440 manual that I bought from a ebay guy selling his CQD-440 card. The RS232 port has 10 pins. The manual reads: "1. Connect a terminal to the CQD-440's RS-232 port (10 pin connector). ..." "2. Set the terminal baud rate to 9600 (8-bit data, 1-stop bit, no parity) jump scroll." "3. Halt the system's CPU, reset the system, and hit carriage return on the terminal. The SCSI Host Adaptor Utility will display as shown in Figure 4-5." .... --- Ales Petan wrote: > HI, > I have a CQD 220 controler, but unfortunatly I don't > have any documentation. > I don't know how to connect VT 220 to it, so I can > configure it. > Can you help me ? > > All the best > > Ales > > --------------------------- > P r e a t o r i a n . n e t > --------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Mar 19 10:18:24 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: CQD220 In-Reply-To: <20040319160944.4089.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040319160944.4089.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200403191118.24754.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 19 March 2004 11:09, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > Well I have a COPY of CQD-440 manual that I bought > from a ebay guy selling his CQD-440 card. The RS232 > port has 10 pins. The manual reads: > "1. Connect a terminal to the CQD-440's RS-232 port > (10 pin connector). ..." That connector is the same as used by DLV11-J's, KA650s, etc for the serial port. Pat > --- Ales Petan wrote: > > HI, > > I have a CQD 220 controler, but unfortunatly I don't > > have any documentation. > > I don't know how to connect VT 220 to it, so I can > > configure it. > > Can you help me ? > > > > All the best > > > > Ales > > > > --------------------------- > > P r e a t o r i a n . n e t > > --------------------------- > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > http://mail.yahoo.com -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 19 10:22:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: UNIVAC emulator Message-ID: FYI... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:13:07 -0500 From: "Peter Zilahy Ingerman, PhD" To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: UNIVAC I have (with the explicit permission and blessing of UNISYS) written a simulator for UNIVAC I and UNIVAC II that runs under Windows. It also simulates the High Speed Printer, including the plugboard. It can be downloaded from http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/57390.shtml The download is free, and fully functional. I charge $35 for the documentation. More details are available at www.ingerman.org/niche.htm if anyone is interested. Peter Zilahy Ingerman, PhD -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From asholz at topinform.de Fri Mar 19 01:08:18 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ST42400N? In-Reply-To: <200403181935.i2IJZwS31789@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200403181935.i2IJZwS31789@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <405A9C62.7030601@topinform.com> Brad, No I've non, but 1. for which type of Symbolics to you need the drive and 2. ho do you want to format the drive? - Andreas >Anyone have a ST42400N laying around they would part with? > >Believe it or not, it can be reformatted to an odd block size, which is >what a Symbolics lisp machine wants.... > >-brad > > > > From asholz at topinform.de Fri Mar 19 03:31:00 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk, I think I got it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405ABDD4.2070008@topinform.com> Tony, >I have a CDC9448. I also have the technical manual for it. > > Is is possible to get a copy of this manual? > > - Andreas From koch at tvp.desy.de Fri Mar 19 08:05:23 2004 From: koch at tvp.desy.de (Jo Koch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: man2815 Message-ID: <405AFE23.5040205@tvp.desy.de> hi if the original datasheet (printed) but no scan possibility if you have give me a fan number i will send it to you. regards jo From Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com Fri Mar 19 06:25:30 2004 From: Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com (Steven_R_Hutchins@Raytheon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ELT320-P1 Planar Terminal Message-ID: Anyone have the user's manual for the ELT320-P1 "Planar" Terminals ? Here is the response from Planar: Hi Steve, This product has been obsolete for several years and is no longer supported. I don't have access to the manual. Sorry for the inconvenience. Best Regards, Dennis Rygh Electronic Engineer Planar Systems Inc. From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Mar 19 10:56:31 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: curt out of office In-Reply-To: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040319165631.GF5598@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 07:21:06AM -0600, Jay West wrote: > I really hate doing it, but the only thing I could think of was to > temporarily disable his subscription :\ Thanks for saving the list from being totally drowned with his useless out of office replies! I was just a few dozen more of these annoyances away from returning the favour to him with an automagic mail bouncer ... there is no excuse using broken vacation alikes when the original vacation gets things right (and exists since the 4.3BSD times 20 years ago - to get back on topic *grin*). Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Mar 19 11:16:00 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: OT: Curt Vendel (was:Re: M5977 PDP11 SCSI card dip's) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040319111553.03815518@pop.freeserve.net> References: <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> <812853491@mail.atarimuseum.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20040319111553.03815518@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <200403191717.MAA00160@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Curt is *so* gonna get it when he gets back! [...] > He's using some seriously broken software to do these ... every out > of office / vacation software I have seen keeps track of whom it sent > a reply to, so they only receive one copy ... Worse than that, his autoresponder was sending _to the list_. Autoresponses should _always_ go to the envelope-from, not the From: or Reply-To:, and this sort of thing is one of the reasons why. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Mar 19 11:26:03 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: installing 2.11 BSD Message-ID: I just obtained a 50 pin SCSI drive for my 11/83, so now I'm ready to go! I had asked once before about installing BSD from a SCSI tape on my controller and was told that it should work. I've got one problem, though -- I'm not sure how to write the tape. I've got the distribution media -- I just don't know how to write it so that BSD will read it. I thought about just formatting a second disk and putting the distribution on that, but I haven't got a real system (yet!) to create it from... Any suggestions? From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Mar 19 11:41:39 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ELT320-P1 Planar Terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040319114100.0348c688@mail.ubanproductions.com> http://www.ubanproductions.com/elt320.html Please be patient with my slow upload bandwidth... --tom At 07:25 AM 3/19/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone have the user's manual for the ELT320-P1 "Planar" Terminals ? > >Here is the response from Planar: > >Hi Steve, >This product has been obsolete for several years and is no longer >supported. I don't have access to the manual. >Sorry for the inconvenience. >Best Regards, >Dennis Rygh >Electronic Engineer >Planar Systems Inc. From emu at ecubics.com Fri Mar 19 11:56:27 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <20040319145200.GA29971@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040319145200.GA29971@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <405B344B.50003@ecubics.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 12:52:02PM +0000, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >>Now to find a way to design a GPIB protocol stack without the IEEE488.1 >>standards document or a known-working GPIB controller or peripheral. Or >>cables. Fun! > There's a great book c. 1980 by Osbourne Press, "PET CBM and the > IEEE-488 Bus (GPIB)", Eugene and Jensen, C.W. Fisher, that focuses > on the Commodore implementation of the GPIB, but nonetheless, has > some good, basic, bit-level explanations of the GPIB. Just for the record, ISBN 0931988780 ;-) From aek at spies.com Fri Mar 19 12:06:32 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: UNIVAC emulator Message-ID: <200403191806.i2JI6WsZ027953@spies.com> I had been wondering why I've had so many people copying the scans on bitsavers for the UNIVAC for a while.. From emu at ecubics.com Fri Mar 19 12:08:27 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405B371B.5050609@ecubics.com> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Now to find a way to design a GPIB protocol stack without the IEEE488.1 > standards document or a known-working GPIB controller or peripheral. Or > cables. Fun! Without IEEE488, no controller, no peripheral, no cable ? What are you trying to do ?!?!? From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Mar 19 12:20:28 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ST42400N? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:08:18 +0100." <405A9C62.7030601@topinform.com> Message-ID: <200403191820.i2JIKSf12237@mwave.heeltoe.com> Andreas Holz wrote: >Brad, > >No I've non, but 1. for which type of Symbolics to you need the drive >and 2. ho do you want to format the drive? It's for an XL1200, the last in the line of ivory based machines. My understanding is that the FEP and genera can both format SCSI drives. They won't format ESDI drives (which I have lots of) due to the need for a bad block list. Apparenly someone at symbolics decided long ago that the way to handle bad blocks was use a custom program which makes a special file system and enter all of the bad block #'s by hand. This was something customers never got... I need a unibus ESDI controller so I can use some of the 5 1/4" ESDI drives I have lying around! anyone? -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Mar 19 12:28:28 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403191828.AA15188@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > Possibly - or perhaps a KA620 is one example of an rtVAX, much as a > KA630 is an example of a VAX. You are right of course conceptually. But I'm pretty sure now that KA620 was the only implementation of the rtVAX architecture. > My VARM is "Revision 6.1" and is not obviously marked with an edition > number. 1982-05-20, right? I have that one too, it's my first VARM, one of Tim Shoppa's early gifts to Quasijarus Project. The early VARMs, the EK-VAXAR-RM ones, are lovely: 100% pure ASCII, except for boldface section headers the book is line printer output. From the appearance seems to be very close to the DEC internal VAX spec, DEC STD 032 (though not having a copy of the latter it's an educated guess). But then they stopped issuing VARMs in that format, and published it as a book (with ISBN and all, rather than an EK part #). The book version of VARM had two editions: 1st ed. in 1987 by Tim Leonard (listed as the keeper of the DEC internal VAX spec in an appendix to another highly secretive DEC internal spec I have) and 2nd ed. in 1991 by Richard Brunner (wonder what happened to Tim...). I have acquired both of these books recently. Not having a copy of the genuine article (the DEC internal STD 032 spec) I have to live with the published versions instead, so I was trying to acquire as many of them as possible to complete my mental picture of the complete architecture spec and its variations. (I'm designing a new VAX CPU chip, so I have to have a very solid picture of the spec requirements and options and their evolution.) Would anyone perchance have a copy of the real VAX spec, DEC STD 032 aka EL-00032-00 aka A-DS-EL00032-00-0? > I don't recall seeing an rtVAX mentioned in it, and the index > does not list anything beginning with rt-. Yeah, of course the 1982-05-20 VARM predates it by a few years. Brian Chase wrote: > The 2nd Ed VARM has a section on rtVAX memory management, 11.2.3 on pgs > 422-424. I don't yet see any other mentions of it the book to indicate > whether it actually is designated as the KA620. Table 8-2 on pp. 331-332 lists the SID code assignments, and 16 decimal is listed as "rt/uVAX (chip 78R32)". Knowing that 78032 is the MicroVAX II chip, used in KA630, KA410 (MV/VS2000), and a bunch of other less-known systems (see the SYS_TYPE codes the same table lists for SID 08), it's pretty obvious that the rtVAX 1000 listed by the table as being based on this 78R32 is the KA620. Since the MMU is internal to the CPU chip, the difference between KA630 and KA620 is in the silicon (78032 vs. 78R32) rather than board-level. MS From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 19 12:38:27 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403191828.AA15188@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <16475.15907.329052.384712@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sokolov writes: Michael> Would anyone perchance have a copy of the real VAX spec, DEC Michael> STD 032 aka EL-00032-00 aka A-DS-EL00032-00-0? I believe that's a DEC "internal use only" document, so in theory you shouldn't be able to get that... Best bet might be to get permission from HP/Compaq/DEC for a copy. A possible place to start looking for information would be Bob Supnik. paul From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 19 12:44:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ST42400N? References: <200403191820.i2JIKSf12237@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <405B3FA5.6090005@jetnet.ab.ca> Brad Parker wrote: > Andreas Holz wrote: It's for an XL1200, the last in the line of ivory based machines. > > My understanding is that the FEP and genera can both format SCSI drives. > They won't format ESDI drives (which I have lots of) due to the need for > a bad block list. > So create a DUMMY bad block list and use the stupid drive is what I think. Jsut don't make the boot sector bad! :) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 19 12:57:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: installing 2.11 BSD In-Reply-To: from "Christopher Cureau" at Mar 19, 2004 11:26:03 AM Message-ID: <200403191857.i2JIvkot029686@onyx.spiritone.com> > I just obtained a 50 pin SCSI drive for my 11/83, so now I'm ready to go! > > I had asked once before about installing BSD from a SCSI tape on my > controller and was told that it should work. I've got one problem, though > -- I'm not sure how to write the tape. I've got the distribution media -- > I just don't know how to write it so that BSD will read it. I thought > about just formatting a second disk and putting the distribution on that, > but I haven't got a real system (yet!) to create it from... > > Any suggestions? Here is a THEORY, that I haven't had time to test. Put the disk on a system that runs SIMH or E11, 'dd' it to a disk file. Use that disk file as the HD image that you install the OS on using either SIMH or E11. Then 'dd' the disk file back to the HD, install the HD in your PDP-11/83, and boot. Please note this is a THEORY that a couple of us have discussed for other PDP-11 OS's that no one to my knowledge has had the time to try, but there is a good chance it will work (though Unix might be a bit more picky). Zane From spedraja at ono.com Fri Mar 19 13:19:55 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: UNIVAC emulator References: <200403191806.i2JI6WsZ027953@spies.com> Message-ID: <002601c40de7$2a60a600$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> > I had been wondering why I've had so many people copying the scans > on bitsavers for the UNIVAC for a while.. Me, by example. But this emulator is alive from some months ago. In fact, I have a couple of releases of it. Cheers Sergio From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 19 13:30:38 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <405B371B.5050609@ecubics.com> References: <405B371B.5050609@ecubics.com> Message-ID: In message <405B371B.5050609@ecubics.com> emanuel stiebler wrote: > Without IEEE488, no controller, no peripheral, no cable ? I've got a copy of a GPIB document that Agilent put on their FTP site. I'm still after either a copy of IEEE488 or Hewlett-Packard's "A Tutorial Description of the Hewlett-Packard Interface Bus". As for controllers and cables, I gave up looking when I saw how much they sold for new and how much they usually sold for on Ebay. I'm not about to pay ?300 for a controller and another ?60 for a cable. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... These aren't my boxers -- they bend ! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 19 13:41:34 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: <405B344B.50003@ecubics.com> References: <20040319145200.GA29971@bos7.spole.gov> <405B344B.50003@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <547743924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <405B344B.50003@ecubics.com> emanuel stiebler wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 12:52:02PM +0000, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > >>Now to find a way to design a GPIB protocol stack without the IEEE488.1 > >>standards document or a known-working GPIB controller or peripheral. Or > >>cables. Fun! > > > There's a great book c. 1980 by Osbourne Press, "PET CBM and the > > IEEE-488 Bus (GPIB)", Eugene and Jensen, C.W. Fisher, that focuses > > on the Commodore implementation of the GPIB, but nonetheless, has > > some good, basic, bit-level explanations of the GPIB. > > Just for the record, ISBN 0931988780 > ;-) Also for the record - Amazon UK are listing it as "Limited Availability or Out of print". No hits on abebooks.com. Oh well, it was worth a shot. I might try Waterstones (big UK bookstore chain) tomorrow. I do, however, have a few Texas Instruments GPIB interface ICs (SN75160BN and SN75161BN) in my junkbox. The GPIB connectors are standard anyway - 24-way Centronics-style IIRC. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Insanity doesn't just run in my family; it practically gallops From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Mar 19 13:48:11 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: ST42400N? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:44:53 MST." <405B3FA5.6090005@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200403191948.i2JJmCQ12860@mwave.heeltoe.com> ben franchuk wrote: >Brad Parker wrote: >> Andreas Holz wrote: >It's for an XL1200, the last in the line of ivory based machines. >> >> My understanding is that the FEP and genera can both format SCSI drives. >> They won't format ESDI drives (which I have lots of) due to the need for >> a bad block list. >> >So create a DUMMY bad block list and use the stupid drive is what I think. >Jsut don't make the boot sector bad! :) The problem is that they format the disks with a non-standard block size (remember, lisp machines existed long before PC's) and they don't supply the software to format the ESDI disks. I suppose if I had an ESDI controller on another machine which would allow me to format ESDI disks with arbitrary block sizes I could do it. But I don't know any such beast. I suppose there has to be ISA bus ESDI controller from WD - any know if such a controller will allow one to format a disk with a block size > 512? -brad From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 19 13:59:30 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Free DECwriters for pickup, Newcastle, UK Message-ID: Hi folks, We're having to demolish our garage and build a new one which is hopefully much bigger than the current victorian wash-house and small concrete-roofed block that currently exists. This means I either have to find a temporary home for the 2 DECwriter printers that currently live in there or give them to a good home who can restore them back to their former glory - I don't think I'll ever have the time to do that, well, not in the forseeable anyway. One supposedly works but the other has released the magic smoke. Going from memory they're both DECwriter IIs, late 1970s vintage. Anyone interested? There's a slightly bashed MicroVAX 2000 as well :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 19 14:03:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: <547743924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 19 March 2004 19:42 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) > > > Just for the record, ISBN 0931988780 Interesting - mine is 0-931988-31-4 > Also for the record - Amazon UK are listing it as "Limited > Availability or Out of print". No hits on abebooks.com. Oh > well, it was worth a shot. I might try Waterstones (big UK > bookstore chain) tomorrow. You mean this book? :) http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/gpib.jpg Cya w From patrick at evocative.com Fri Mar 19 14:20:09 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm not about to pay ?300 for a controller and another ?60 for a cable. Well, a cable recently sold for US$1.00 on Vintage Computer Marketplace (I bought it). Deals are still to be found. --P From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Mar 19 14:27:31 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <0403191828.AA15188@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > You are right of course conceptually. But I'm pretty sure > now that KA620 was the only implementation of the rtVAX architecture. I *think* that the KA620 was the only VAX chip that was deliberately hobbled. There were, however, other machines called rtVAX . I forget the exact details but at least one of them was based on the CVAX chip. I expect that there was something at the board-level that would have prevented them running OpenVMS but the chip was (I'm pretty sure) a standard CVAX. > early VARMs, the EK-VAXAR-RM ones, are > lovely: 100% pure ASCII, except for boldface section headers > the book is line printer output. One of the standard questions I recall within DEC was "can I have an electronic copy of STD 032" to which the standard answer was "No, there's no such thing". Obviously there *was* such a thing, it just never got released that way. It only came out (AFAIK) in hardcopy. Same with the Alpha SRM. > From the appearance seems > to be very close to the DEC internal VAX spec, DEC STD 032 > (though not having a copy of the latter it's an educated > guess). But then they stopped issuing VARMs in that format, > and published it as a book (with ISBN and all, rather than an > EK part #). The books were slightly sanitised copies of DEC STD 032 but professionally printed. If that V6.1 EK-VAXAR-RM is the one I'm thinking of (but just cannot lay my hands on right now) then it too is a sanitised DEC STD 032 that eventually turned into the first edition of the book. There's not a huge difference between STD 032 and the books. There are a few paragraphs missing here and there but I don't remember anything hugely significant (and I'm no longer in a position to check). The sanitised bits are quite obvious - I recall some kind of markup (either "/" or "\" at the start of the not-for-publication lines). Lists of DEC contacts with phone numbers and the revision history probably got dropped too. The only major omission is the Virtual VAX stuff (which was done for some three letter agency but never became a product - I heard that it just ran way too slowly to be useful). It has its own SID (09 IIRC, I guess(0)07 was already taken :-)). Much more interesting was the list of VAX bugs (i.e. the list of which chips had waivers for which particularly obscure issues). But even these would not help you understand the architecture any better. All the ones that were relevant to what I was doing were called out in system specific documentation anyway. > (I'm designing a new VAX CPU chip, so I have to have a very > solid picture of the spec requirements and options and their > evolution.) I think I've said before, what you really want is not STD 032 but AXE, the tool that runs on your new VAX and checks for correct operation of instructions. > Since the MMU is internal to the CPU chip, the difference > between KA630 and KA620 is in the silicon (78032 vs. 78R32) > rather than board-level. Yes. KA620 was a mangled chip and not a mangled board. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 19 14:37:11 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200403192037.11949.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 19 March 2004 20:27, Antonio Carlini wrote: > The only major omission is the Virtual VAX stuff (which was > done for some three letter agency but never became a product > - I heard that it just ran way too slowly to be useful). > It has its own SID (09 IIRC, I guess(0)07 was already taken :-)). Virtual Vax? alex/melt From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 19 14:36:26 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <357d48924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Witchy" wrote: > You mean this book? :) > > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/gpib.jpg Well, the title and author details match up. I just checked out IEC and IEEE - IEC want roughly ?150 for a PDF version of their equivalent to IEEE488. IEEE wanted roughly ?80 for what appears to be a paper copy. Ho hum. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Where we operate at a 90? angle to reality From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 19 14:51:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403191828.AA15188@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <16475.23907.962211.567397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Antonio" == Antonio Carlini writes: >> early VARMs, the EK-VAXAR-RM ones, are lovely: 100% pure ASCII, >> except for boldface section headers the book is line printer >> output. Antonio> One of the standard questions I recall within DEC was "can I Antonio> have an electronic copy of STD 032" to which the standard Antonio> answer was "No, there's no such thing". Obviously there Antonio> *was* such a thing, it just never got released that way. It Antonio> only came out (AFAIK) in hardcopy. Same with the Alpha SRM. That sounds right. I never had a VAX SRM but I had an Alpha SRM for a while, and it was a "limited distribution numbered copies" type of document. The sort of thing that you have to send back to the originator for disposal and logging when you no longer need it. DEC didn't do that level of security very often, but they did on occasion. >From what I remember, the difference between the Alpha SRM and the stuff that was published externally was quite large, much larger than what you describe for VAX. But after 12 years I no longer remember what it was (and in any case I'd still have to obey confidentiality about it anyway). paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 19 14:53:23 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <200403192037.11949.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <16475.24003.819601.912313@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "meltie" == meltie writes: meltie> On Friday 19 March 2004 20:27, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> The only major omission is the Virtual VAX stuff (which was done >> for some three letter agency but never became a product - I heard >> that it just ran way too slowly to be useful). It has its own SID >> (09 IIRC, I guess(0)07 was already taken :-)). meltie> Virtual Vax? Probably for SEVMS -- multilevel security VMS running inside virtual machines on a real machine. The same thing was contemplated for Alpha, but I don't think it became real. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 19 14:54:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) References: <357d48924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <16475.24080.507891.724743@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Philip" == Philip Pemberton writes: Philip> .... I just checked Philip> out IEC and IEEE - IEC want roughly ??150 for a PDF version of Philip> their equivalent to IEEE488. IEEE wanted roughly ??80 for what Philip> appears to be a paper copy. Ho hum. That's typical. Standards committees (other than IETF, which is why IETF is so effective) charge large sums of money for their documents as a way to fund their existence. paul From ernestls at attbi.com Fri Mar 19 15:02:21 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: Curt (Uncle. UNCLE!!!) In-Reply-To: <812859479@mail.atarimuseum.com> References: <812859479@mail.atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <1079730141.3199.1.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Please make it stop. I'll be good. From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 19 15:59:32 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><200403170505.i2H557qx049890@daemonweed.reanimators.org><00ca01c40be0$c7b62780$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <00f501c40c40$fdd5bd20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <005101c40e01$e1abb7e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >From a Japanese source: "One category of business that really took off over the past decade is the "recycle shop," Japanese parlance for a shop that buys stuff that people don't need anymore, cleans it up, and sells it for a profit. Everything from rice cookers to washing machines to skis to console games are bought and sold in Japan's new retail underground. The most successful of these is BookOff, a chain of used book stores that has 700 locations in Japan. BookOff has been expanding into other areas too, with ToyOff (they sell "almost new" children's toys) and HouseOff (used goods for your home), PetOff (used things for your pet), and the very oddly named HardOff (used computer hardware and electronics)." I'm not making this up... John A. From lists at microvax.org Fri Mar 19 16:47:17 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. In-Reply-To: <005101c40e01$e1abb7e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <000c01c40bb6$ef84aea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <00f501c40c40$fdd5bd20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <005101c40e01$e1abb7e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200403192247.17287.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 19 March 2004 21:59, John Allain wrote: > From a Japanese source: > > "One category of business that really took off over the past decade is > the "recycle shop," Japanese parlance for a shop that buys stuff that > people don't need anymore, cleans it up, and sells it for a profit. > Everything from rice cookers to washing machines to skis to console > games are bought and sold in Japan's new retail underground. The most > successful of these is BookOff, a chain of used book stores that has 700 > locations in Japan. BookOff has been expanding into other areas too, > with ToyOff (they sell "almost new" children's toys) and HouseOff (used > goods for your home), PetOff (used things for your pet), and the very > oddly named HardOff (used computer hardware and electronics)." Er wow, they've discovered second-hand shops, with a bit of specialisation. alex/melt From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 19 16:49:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. In-Reply-To: <005101c40e01$e1abb7e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, John Allain wrote: > >From a Japanese source: > > "One category of business that really took off over the past decade is the > "recycle shop," Japanese parlance for a shop that buys stuff that people > don't need anymore, cleans it up, and sells it for a profit. Everything > from rice cookers to washing machines to skis to console games are bought > and sold in Japan's new retail underground. The most successful of these is > BookOff, a chain of used book stores that has 700 locations in Japan. > BookOff has been expanding into other areas too, with ToyOff (they sell > "almost new" children's toys) and HouseOff (used goods for your home), > PetOff (used things for your pet), and the very oddly named HardOff (used > computer hardware and electronics)." There's also JackOff selling used car jacks, WackOff sell used LARTs, and FuckOff selling, well, second-hand blow-up dolls. That particular chain is running in the red however. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Mar 19 17:03:42 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:14 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > don't need anymore, cleans it up, and sells it for a profit. Everything > > from rice cookers to washing machines to skis to console games are bought > > and sold in Japan's new retail underground. The most successful of these is > > BookOff, a chain of used book stores that has 700 locations in Japan. > > BookOff has been expanding into other areas too, with ToyOff (they sell > > "almost new" children's toys) and HouseOff (used goods for your home), > > PetOff (used things for your pet), and the very oddly named HardOff (used > > computer hardware and electronics)." > > There's also JackOff selling used car jacks, WackOff sell used LARTs, and > FuckOff selling, well, second-hand blow-up dolls. That particular chain > is running in the red however. > You forgot LiftOff, the used Brassiere emporium and RunOff the discount laxative store. g. From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Mar 19 17:08:20 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: IMSAI / SOL-20 / Northstar + much other for sale Message-ID: <405B7D64.5050102@jcwren.com> I'm cleaning out my warehouse. The wife and I are tired of living on the houseboat, and are converting everything to cash. To that end, I'm offering all my vintage computer gear in a single block sale. If you want more detail on a specific item, email me. Most of this gear hasn't been powered up in some time, although all the stuff I originally owned was shut down in working condition. The other gear has never been powered up by me, but the original owners all swear it was working when they decommissioned it. Take that at whatever value you will. Entire lot for $5000, you pick it up. The list (to the best of my knowledge) IMSAI, 22 slot, front panel. 8mhz Northstar Z80 CPU card 64K static RAM card Tarbell DSDD disk controller 4 port serial card 256K dynamic RAM disk 2 Qume Datatrak-8s in separate enclose with PS Metric buttload of software This was my baby for the longest time. I learned C, Pascal, assembler, PL/M, PL/1 and a few other languages on this thing. Was running fine when it was shut down. Lots of documentation, original CP/M 2.2 manuals, etc. It's been a good while since it was powered up, and frankly, I'm a little paranoid about hurting it. I don't have the time or equipment to condition the caps. The diskettes have been in storage, in sleeve, in their original Maxell hard boxes, in another box. I'd hope they'd still be readable. I've heard different stories about coervicity loss. SOL-20 I believe there is a card in the card slot, but not sure. This was given to me by a friend. It's in excellent condition. There may be one key that's stuck, I don't remember. I've never fired it up. There's a 9" B&W monitor that goes with it. Northstar CPU, RAM, disk controller, some other cards. Recently acquired. I've never powered this one up. NO COVER! Single 5.25" drive, density not known. I don't have any software for this machine. There may be a notebook of docs for it. Looks a little rough, maybe a good cleaning will help. Zenith Z-100 I think that's the model number. Integrated display, keyboard, disk. Single 5.25" disk, density unknown. Outside of case grubby, will probably clean up nicely. Inside is very clean. Recently acquired, never powered up by me. Altair 8800 16 slots (4 x 4 card boards), NO ALTAIR CASE. Several cards in the chassis, several say Altair. Recently acquired, never powered up by me. Homebrew front panel, PS. Generic S-100 system 12 or 16 slots, large power supply, 6 or 7 cards in the system. No idea on this one. Recently acquired, never powered up. 14 or 16 S-100 cards. Cromemco Dazzler, bunch of Econoram cards, some ones I don't recognize. There's docs in some of the note books that may be applicable. 2 Apple IIes, 1 Apple II(something, 'c', maybe?) At least two are in near pristine shape, two still in original boxes, I think. I know one is. I think there might be a fourth Apple in there somewhere. Also at least 1 dual 3.5" drive, 4 or 6 5.25" Disk IIs. Original Apple green monitor, may be flakey (didn't look right, but it was running on a generator at the time). Powered up recently. 2 Otrona Attaches I believe both have 8086 cards with 256K, too. One is black. One has an occasional video problem, the other is pretty solid, as I recall. Both have dual drives, probably 720Ks. I don't have much software, but people on the list do. Powered up recently. 3 to 5 Sinclair ZX-81s Cute little machines. I don't know what I have in the way of accessories. A couple were powered up. Probably a cassette drive in there. Seems like I have a printer adapter for one, although maybe that's for the C-64, don't remember. Commodore 64 C-64 with a handful of accessories, carts, etc? At least one disk drive, maybe 2. Joysticks. Some other stuff. VIC-20 Maybe. I thought I bought one, it's likely in one of the bins. 3 daisy wheel 14" wide printers At least one Qume or Diable, the other look like knockoffs. All have tractors for them. Hard disk 5.25" hard drive. Size unknown, 10MB? This was with one of the S-100 systems, dunno which one. Part of the recently acquired lot. Assorted anything's that go with all this stuff. Basically, if it's vintage, and it's not 1802 based, it's yours with the deal. This stuff is in boxes and scattered amongst 5 or 6 18 gallon bins. There's about 10 6" thick notebooks of paperwork. I haven't had a chance to go through it. --jc From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Mar 19 17:22:15 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. References: Message-ID: <001d01c40e09$15a5d2e0$0200a8c0@look.ca> > > > You forgot LiftOff, the used Brassiere emporium and RunOff the discount > laxative store. > > g. also BugOff for selling used Volkswagons SpinOff for Beyblades and MouthOff for getting rid of politicians bm From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 19 17:24:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: curt out of office References: <006d01c40db5$093311c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00f001c40e09$4bdbb140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I counted 228 of those things. Thanks Jay for the stoppage. John A. From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 19 17:37:43 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available References: Message-ID: <010001c40e0b$2d922c80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > If anyone is interested for about $125 I will ... Depends on the memory, disk, and software included. I'm having trouble finding QBus memory that isn't for uVAX. John A. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Mar 19 18:03:19 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: VAX Architecture (was KA620) Message-ID: <0403200003.AA15638@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > There were, however, other machines > called rtVAX . I forget the exact details > but at least one of them was based on the CVAX chip. I > expect that there was something at the board-level that > would have prevented them running OpenVMS but the chip > was (I'm pretty sure) a standard CVAX. Hmm, did they seek process page tables in physical or in system virtual memory? If the latter, I don't see how can they be called rtVAX, as that by definition means the former. If the former, how can you do that with a standard VAX chip? Or does CVAX have an undocumented hack pin which when tied opposite to what general specs say causes it to seek process page tables in physical memory? > There's not a huge difference between STD 032 and the books. > There are a few paragraphs missing here and there but I don't > remember anything hugely significant [...] > [...] > [bug lists that were cut] But even these would not help you understand the > architecture any better. OK, I've already figured myself that all the really important "what is a VAX by definition and how to build one" stuff *is* in the published VARMs, so my project of building a new VAX is not stuck waiting for KGB to pry STD 032 out of DEC. I fully understand the VAX Architecture (and have a solid rigorous spec definition) based on the 3 VARMs I have (Rev 6.1, 1st ed. and 2nd ed.) and I should have something exciting on the new VAX front hopefully not too long from now. It would still be nice to seize and free the full DEC STD 032 for completeness, but this task can be left until later when we can raise a large enough army (using human cloning, genetic eng. and neurolinguistic programming to make perfect killing-machine soldiers) to invade and overrun USA including ex-DEC facilities and archives. > The only major omission is the Virtual VAX stuff (which was > done for some three letter agency but never became a product > - I heard that it just ran way too slowly to be useful). > It has its own SID (09 IIRC, I guess(0)07 was already taken :-)). Ahh, thanks for explaining that! One fewer mystery. I have known about VVAX from the Ultrix sources (which are on my FTP site), but I didn't know what it was. Now I know. :-) Actually Ultrix was made to run on it too according to comments in the source, though the actual VVAX-specific machine-dependent code is not present in the source tree I have, it just has SID and misc. definitions for it, pointers to VVAX code in the CPU type dispatch table (conditionalised on #ifdef VVAX), and comments mentioning it. And yes, the SID code is 0x09. Now that I know that VVAX was real (and not an Ultrix internal thing - Ultrix does have some fake SID codes of its own that do not correspond to anything in hardware), I now know what's in the gap between 78032 and CVAX SID codes. :-) So they were upset at MicroVAX I for taking 007, huh? So this only leaves SID codes 0x0C, 0x0D and 0x0F as unexplained gaps. I suppose that perhaps 0x0F could have been truly skipped after 78R32 jumped to 0x10 (I guess 78032/78R32 liked power of 2 SIDs), but I can't explain how has VAX 9000 got 0x0E unless 0x0C and 0x0D were reserved for something (that apparently never saw the light of day). Any idea what 0x0C and 0x0D were reserved for? Also what SID codes were assigned past 0x14 in the VAX's dying gasp? NVAX+ (NVAX in Alpha 21064-mimicking pinout) was given 0x17, wasn't it? And what about NVAX5 (NVAX in EV5-mimicking pinout)? Was it also 0x17 or was it 0x18? And then I've heard rumours about there being a never-released NVAX6... And why were 0x15 and 0x16 skipped? One reason it's important to understand the complete history of SID code assignments is that if we start building new VAXen, we'll need a new SID code registry. I plan on calling it DANA, for DEC Assigned Number Authority, in emulation of IANA (Internet Assigned Number Authority). But to make it proper, the new registry will have to start assigning codes exactly where the old one left off. And DANA won't be just for SID codes - there are also VAXBI device types and all sorts of ID codes used in MSCP/SCA, etc. > I think I've said before, what you really want is not STD 032 > but AXE, the tool that runs on your new VAX and checks for > correct operation of instructions. I've never heard about AXE from you, but I have heard about it from other sources. Yes, that would really be nice. Interestingly, however, it appears that at some point there were diagnostic programs available to the general public that, judging from the descriptions, apparently do similar instruction testing, though they were presumably intended for troubleshooting broken hardware rather than for validating new implementations. The KA820 Technical Manual, for example, refers to these: Table 7-2: Program Code Program Name Run-time Environment Hardware Tested EVKAA VAX-generic Level 4 (stand-alone, VAX instruction set cluster boot and run from the used by VDS exerciser: console) hardcore instruction test EVKAB VAX-generic Level 2 (on-line or Basic VAX instruction cluster stand-alone) set, nonprivileged exerciser: basic instruction exerciser EVKAC VAX-generic Level 2 (on-line or Floating-point VAX cluster stand-alone) instruction set, non- exerciser: privileged floating-point instruction exerciser EVKAE VAX-generic Level 3 (stand-alone) Privileged VAX cluster instruction set exerciser: privileged architecture exercise [descriptions of KA820-specific diags omitted] The descriptions of these diagnostics sound very much like AXE. Any idea where to find these diags? MS From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 19 17:49:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk, I think I got it! In-Reply-To: <405ABDD4.2070008@topinform.com> from "Andreas Holz" at Mar 19, 4 10:31:00 am Message-ID: > > Tony, > > >I have a CDC9448. I also have the technical manual for it. > > > > > > Is is possible to get a copy of this manual? Not easily!. It's a fairly thick book (about 3/4" at least), and I don't have a scanner or access to one. Is there something in particular that you're looking for? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 19 18:03:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: <547743924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 19, 4 07:41:34 pm Message-ID: > I do, however, have a few Texas Instruments GPIB interface ICs (SN75160BN and > SN75161BN) in my junkbox. The GPIB connectors are standard anyway - 24-way If you're just talking to 1 or 2 peripherals (say you want to hook up a GPIB plotter, or you want to get the data off an HP disk drive) you can get away without the special buffers. You can use open-collector TTL gates to drive the bus, and TTL schmitt triggers ('14s, for example) as receivers. Like many things I'd not do this on a 'production' board, but it works as a hack. You don't ened a GPIB talker/listener/controller IC. The whole bus is designed so that the handshakes are 'interlocked' That is, something happening in one device causes some other device to do something, then the first deivce might do something else, etc. You can do the whole handshake in software (Commodoer always did, in the PET and all the peripherals), and there's no chance of missing a signal transition. Alternatively you can make some state machines from TTL or PALs (I did this years ago, it's not hard) if you like hardware. I have plenty of GPIB-capable machines from handheld calculators up to workstations (e.g. HP41 + HPIL + HP82169 translator in the first case, PERQ in the second). I even have the Acorn interface for the Beeb. Nothing spare, though > Centronics-style IIRC. Yes, 24 pin Blue Ribbon. Watch out, the screw-down jackposts have the M3.5 thread, and as far as I know are unobtainium from any of the normal UK catalogues. I had to spend an hour in the garage making some from stainless steel rod... -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Mar 19 18:50:12 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: References: <547743924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <20040320005012.GA18209@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 12:03:32AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > I do, however, have a few Texas Instruments GPIB interface ICs (SN75160BN and > > SN75161BN) in my junkbox. The GPIB connectors are standard anyway - 24-way > > If you're just talking to 1 or 2 peripherals (say you want to hook up a > GPIB plotter, or you want to get the data off an HP disk drive) you can > get away without the special buffers. You can use open-collector TTL > gates to drive the bus, and TTL schmitt triggers ('14s, for example) as > receivers. Like many things I'd not do this on a 'production' board, but > it works as a hack. Interesting... I had not thought of substitute line drivers, but it makes sense... unless you are trying to build a gargantuan PET system (the kind nobody could afford "back in the day"), most people had one disk drive box (2040/4040/2031/8050...) and _maybe_ a printer. These days, though, the most common thing for Commodore owners would be to hook up a disk drive to a modernish machine to extract floppies... using O.C. drivers and Schmitt trigger receivers would work just fine for that. > You don't need a GPIB talker/listener/controller IC. The whole bus is > designed so that the handshakes are 'interlocked' That is, something > happening in one device causes some other device to do something, then > the first device might do something else, etc. You can do the whole > handshake in software (Commodore always did, in the PET and all the > peripherals), and there's no chance of missing a signal transition. > Alternatively you can make some state machines from TTL or PALs (I did > this years ago, it's not hard) if you like hardware. Hmm... I had not thought of a state machine, but my experience with GPIB is 100% Commodore, so I'm perfectly comfortable with software-driven handshaking. Since all of C='s peripherals were 6502-family-based, it's not like you'd get the data any faster with a hardware solution. I have a couple of add-on IEEE-488 carts for the VIC-20 and C-64 - same basic design - a ROM (for the low-level protocol code), some form of PIA or VIA, and SN75160BN/SN75161BN line drivers wired up to the output ports of the VLSI I/O chip. The PET used different drivers that seperated the signals so that the host sees unidirectional lines, but that's just a minor implementation detail. > I have plenty of GPIB-capable machines from handheld calculators up to > workstations (e.g. HP41 + HPIL + HP82169 translator in the first case, > PERQ in the second). I even have the Acorn interface for the Beeb. > Nothing spare, though With one exception, all of my GPIB hardware is C= or third-party for C= CPUs... I do have one HP 9-track tape drive with a GPIB interface, but I've never even powered it up. I should Google for some information on it when I get home... I have no idea how much buffer space it has onboard, or if you could drive it at the incredibly slow software-driven C= data rates, but it'd be cool to put a 9-track on a PET! I'm sure you could talk to it, but whether or not you could transfer real data to/from it would be another question entirely. Whenever I contemplate my own modular 6502 homebrew system, I always include a GPIB interface since I know I can roll one with a few chips and a couple of K of machine code, and then have access to a raft of existing peripherals, but then I remember that I could just go back and hack some PETs, and the urge to build from scratch subsides. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Mar-2004 13:28 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -61.9 F (-52.2 C) Windchill -106 F (-76.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 030 Barometer 683.1 mb (10508. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Mar 19 18:53:46 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040320005346.GB18209@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 12:20:09PM -0800, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > I'm not about to pay ?300 for a controller and another ?60 for a cable. > > Well, a cable recently sold for US$1.00 on Vintage Computer Marketplace (I > bought it). Deals are still to be found. --P I have found new-in-bag GPIB cables at the university surplus depot at Ohio State in the assorted cables box (free for the taking when you buy a CPU). I presume they were bought for HP plotters and never taken off the shelf. One disadvantage is that they tend to be the single-ended kind, not the stackable ones, but for a single disk drive (or the last disk drive on a chain), they work fine. Just another possible source, if you have a local university with a public surplus program. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Mar-2004 13:48 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -62.3 F (-52.4 C) Windchill -99.5 F (-73.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.9 kts Grid 036 Barometer 683.4 mb (10500. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Mar 19 19:20:24 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: References: <547743924c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <20040320012024.GA20928@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 08:03:54PM -0000, Witchy wrote: > > > Just for the record, ISBN 0931988780 > > Interesting - mine is 0-931988-31-4 I am aware of at least two editions. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current met data unavailable South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 APO AP 96598 Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Mar 19 20:25:21 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <0403191828.AA15188@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403191828.AA15188@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403200232.VAA04185@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> My VARM is "Revision 6.1" and is not obviously marked with an >> edition number. > 1982-05-20, right? Right. > The early VARMs, the EK-VAXAR-RM ones, are lovely: 100% pure ASCII, > except for boldface section headers the book is line printer output. Well, and chapter headings and title page. Oh, and one trivium(?) I noticed while thumbing through it just now: the page that ought to be page 3-16 has a header that's a duplicate of page 3-15's; and page 3-17 is not "5-May-80 -- Rev 7 Page 3-17" but rather "5-MAY-80 -- REV 7 PAGE 3-17" (the former matches pages in the immediate vicinity and in general style matches most of the book, though much (all?) of Chapter 10 uses "March" instead of "Mar"). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Mar 19 20:47:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003801c40df0$9adccbd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200403200250.VAA04305@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Much more interesting was the list of VAX bugs (i.e. the list of > which chips had waivers for which particularly obscure issues). But > even these would not help you understand the architecture any better. No, but they would help you write code to run on them! > I think I've said before, what you really want is not STD 032 but > AXE, the tool that runs on your new VAX and checks for correct > operation of instructions. If such a thing can be pried loose, I'd love a copy. I intend to build a VAX emulator at some point and I'd feel more confident if I had exhaustive exerciser tests for it. (I have a rudimentary version working now, but I have to just trust that I haven't made some subtle mistake somewhere....) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From paulpenn at knology.net Fri Mar 19 21:39:43 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net> <000d01c40d53$465bbb40$20db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <004101c40e2c$fbb353c0$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Mike" said: > Not pure unobtanium... Seems like about 5 give or take a few have been > sold on ebay last year including one still as a kit. Don't remember the prices > but I think at least one went cheap and another for at least alot. Okay, there are some around, but more than I would pay. I guess the crazy prices are bringing them out of hiding. Here's some recent price points for Heathkit ETA-3400's on eBay: Mar 14, 2004 $380. With ET-3400, manual, and EE-3401 course. Feb 20, 2004 $565 With ET-3400, both unbuilt. Feb 16, 2004 $437 With ET-3400A, both unbuilt. One question: is there an assembly listing for the tiny BASIC in the manual? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 19 21:57:36 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net><000d01c40d53$465bbb40$20db3fd0@DOMAIN> <004101c40e2c$fbb353c0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <002501c40e2f$7b653aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Geeze... I almost had a deal made on one Paul... until you posted those prices! /me trotts off to set the list to "all posts require moderator approval" J/K :> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pennington" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 9:39 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: ET phone home :) > > "Mike" said: > > > Not pure unobtanium... Seems like about 5 give or take a few have been > > sold on ebay last year including one still as a kit. Don't remember the > prices > > but I think at least one went cheap and another for at least alot. > > Okay, there are some around, but more than I would pay. I guess the > crazy prices are bringing them out of hiding. Here's some recent price > points for Heathkit ETA-3400's on eBay: > > Mar 14, 2004 $380. With ET-3400, manual, and EE-3401 course. > Feb 20, 2004 $565 With ET-3400, both unbuilt. > Feb 16, 2004 $437 With ET-3400A, both unbuilt. > > One question: is there an assembly listing for the tiny BASIC in the > manual? > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 19 23:07:23 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB (was Re: OT: Windows profanity) In-Reply-To: <20040320005012.GA18209@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 20, 4 00:50:12 am Message-ID: > > If you're just talking to 1 or 2 peripherals (say you want to hook up a > > GPIB plotter, or you want to get the data off an HP disk drive) you can > > get away without the special buffers. You can use open-collector TTL > > gates to drive the bus, and TTL schmitt triggers ('14s, for example) as > > receivers. Like many things I'd not do this on a 'production' board, but > > it works as a hack. > > Interesting... I had not thought of substitute line drivers, but it makes > sense... unless you are trying to build a gargantuan PET system (the kind > nobody could afford "back in the day"), most people had one disk drive box > (2040/4040/2031/8050...) and _maybe_ a printer. These days, though, the > most common thing for Commodore owners would be to hook up a disk drive > to a modernish machine to extract floppies... using O.C. drivers and > Schmitt trigger receivers would work just fine for that. Indeed it does. I built an IEEE-488 interface for a P850 like that (that's where I used a couple of state machines to do the talker and listener handshakes). In fact I used it to link up a Commodore 8050 drive -- it was a little worrying that the drive had more memory and processor power than the mini... One other thing. The GPIB on Commodore machines, being software driven, was fairly slack about timing. Some 3rd party manufacturers 'got away with murder' here -- One classic example was combinatorial logic only, and totally ignored timing requiremnets. Worked fine on a PET, failed totally on everything else. > > I have plenty of GPIB-capable machines from handheld calculators up to > > workstations (e.g. HP41 + HPIL + HP82169 translator in the first case, > > PERQ in the second). I even have the Acorn interface for the Beeb. > > Nothing spare, though > > With one exception, all of my GPIB hardware is C= or third-party for > C= CPUs... I do have one HP 9-track tape drive with a GPIB interface, > but I've never even powered it up. I should Google for some information > on it when I get home... I have no idea how much buffer space it has > onboard, or if you could drive it at the incredibly slow software-driven > C= data rates, but it'd be cool to put a 9-track on a PET! I'm sure FWIW, I have a Dylon 9 track controller with a GPIB host interface, and that does have enough buffer RAM on-board to work with a slow controller (the example programs in the manual are in HPL for the 9825 of all things). I've used that on the HP71 + HPIL + HP82169.. -tony From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 20 02:22:03 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <20040320005346.GB18209@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040320005346.GB18209@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: In message <20040320005346.GB18209@bos7.spole.gov> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Just another possible source, if you have a local university with a public > surplus program. Unfortunately, all the local colleges and universities that I know of have an "All surplus must be destroyed" policy. Destroying PCs I can understand (data protection), but destroying the cables too? Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI Optimism looks up, counts the stars; pessimism looks down and counts cracks. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 19 16:57:01 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: installing 2.11 BSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040319235701.3565f0e0.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:26:03 -0600 "Christopher Cureau" wrote: > I've got one problem, though -- I'm not sure how to write the tape. Mount the tape drive in an other *ix machine and use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution to write the tape. (I swaped the PDP-11 CPU + RAM for a MicroVAX CPU + RAM, netbooted NetBSD and wrote a TK50 tape. Swaped everything back and instaled 2.11BSD.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 20 09:12:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: References: <20040320005346.GB18209@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040320071037.U59348@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Just another possible source, if you have a local university with a public > > surplus program. > Unfortunately, all the local colleges and universities that I know of have > an "All surplus must be destroyed" policy. Destroying PCs I can understand > (data protection), but destroying the cables too? That's in case there are any data bits still in the cables that haven't been flushed out. (the actual reason that was given why all RAM chips must be removed from machines before they are sold!) From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Mar 20 09:21:24 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: GPIB, was : Re: OT: Windows profanity In-Reply-To: <20040320071037.U59348@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040320005346.GB18209@bos7.spole.gov> <20040320071037.U59348@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040320152124.GB23332@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 07:12:56AM -0800, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Unfortunately, all the local colleges and universities that I know of have > > an "All surplus must be destroyed" policy. Destroying PCs I can understand > > (data protection), but destroying the cables too? > > That's in case there are any data bits still in the cables that > haven't been flushed out. (the actual reason that was given why > all RAM chips must be removed from machines before they are sold!) I have seen tape drives from financial institutions destroyed (no joke) because they had been used to write confidential data. Sound like the same goobs work there. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Mar-2004 03:09 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -70.3 F (-56.8 C) Windchill -135.9 F (-93.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16 kts Grid 024 Barometer 685.6 mb (10416. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Mar 20 14:21:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available References: <010001c40e0b$2d922c80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16476.42962.734000.864089@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: >> If anyone is interested for about $125 I will ... John> Depends on the memory, disk, and software included. I'm having John> trouble finding QBus memory that isn't for uVAX. I'm not sure why QBus memory would be "for uVAX" and not work on a QBus PDP11. It's the same QBus either way, isn't it? paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Mar 20 14:28:53 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: VAX Architecture (was KA620) References: <0403200003.AA15638@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <16476.43397.70000.186986@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sokolov writes: Michael> OK, I've already figured myself that all the really Michael> important "what is a VAX by definition and how to build one" Michael> stuff *is* in the published VARMs, so my project of building Michael> a new VAX is not stuck waiting for KGB to pry STD 032 out of Michael> DEC. I fully understand the VAX Architecture (and have a Michael> solid rigorous spec definition) based on the 3 VARMs I have One nice thing about DEC is that it took rigorous architecture definition very seriously starting with the VAX (and, earlier still, in networking). There aren't many other companies where that is true -- that you can take the spec and build what it says and have it be correct and complete. By the way, if you have the right connections around Russia, you could track down the people who built the VAX clones back in the days of the USSR. I believe STIMTI in Vilnius was involved... >> I think I've said before, what you really want is not STD 032 but >> AXE, the tool that runs on your new VAX and checks for correct >> operation of instructions. Michael> I've never heard about AXE from you, but I have heard about Michael> it from other sources. Yes, that would really be nice. AXE was the tool that DEC used to verify that a new VAX had the CPU done completely right. They found that a random test like that, run long enough, was far more rigorous than any conventional diagnostic. Michael> Interestingly, however, it appears that at some point there Michael> were diagnostic programs available to the general public Michael> that, judging from the descriptions, apparently do similar Michael> instruction testing, though they were presumably intended Michael> for troubleshooting broken hardware rather than for Michael> validating new implementations. The KA820 Technical Manual, Michael> for example, refers to these: ... Michael> The descriptions of these diagnostics sound very much like Michael> AXE. Any idea where to find these diags? AXE isn't a diagnostic, it's an implementation verifier. The others definitely are diagnostics, intended to find specific problems in the field quickly. AXE you run for weeks, and if it finds a problem you have to do a bunch of digging to find out what the problem details are. paul From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Mar 20 15:07:28 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Micro PDP-11 Available In-Reply-To: <16476.42962.734000.864089@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > I'm not sure why QBus memory would be "for uVAX" and not work on a > QBus PDP11. It's the same QBus either way, isn't it? Yeah, but uV II et al have their own memory "fast bus" interconnect, much like PMI on the /83. So, those boards will fit the bus, but wont see any data :) --f From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Mar 20 15:31:28 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze Message-ID: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that doesn't require Weendoze? I can use any OS in the Universe (UNIX, Linux, DOS, etc) except Weendoze, and I need a device programmer that can program a reasonable set of devices. My most immediate need is to program 3.3V flash devices in PLCC32 package. Needham's Electronics has nice programmers for a reasonable price, but they all have "Weendoze required" in the fine print. I once had a chance to borrow a BP Microsystems BP-1200 and it worked with my DOS machine (using the original IBM PC/AT unidirectional parallel/serial port card no less!). I called BP Micro and asked them about their current offerings. They offered me their cheapest current programmer, BP-1400 and told me that if BP-1200 worked on my machine then BP-1400 would work too. Then I asked for the price. They told me that the cheapest 84 pins max version of BP-1400, their cheapest product, sells for $2000. Add another few hundred for the PLCC32 socket module, or another $1000+ if I want a generic PLCC module for more than one pin count. Is there anything cheaper available for non-Weendoze users? MS From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Mar 20 15:58:54 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <405CBE9E.2080301@jcwren.com> I know nothing about them other than ads on the back of Circuit Cellar Ink, but have you looked at the Datamans? They purport to be standalone, as I recall. --jc Michael Sokolov wrote: >Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that >doesn't require Weendoze? I can use any OS in the Universe (UNIX, Linux, DOS, >etc) except Weendoze, and I need a device programmer that can program a >reasonable set of devices. My most immediate need is to program 3.3V flash >devices in PLCC32 package. Needham's Electronics has nice programmers for a >reasonable price, but they all have "Weendoze required" in the fine print. I >once had a chance to borrow a BP Microsystems BP-1200 and it worked with my DOS >machine (using the original IBM PC/AT unidirectional parallel/serial port card >no less!). I called BP Micro and asked them about their current offerings. >They offered me their cheapest current programmer, BP-1400 and told me that if >BP-1200 worked on my machine then BP-1400 would work too. Then I asked for the >price. They told me that the cheapest 84 pins max version of BP-1400, their >cheapest product, sells for $2000. Add another few hundred for the PLCC32 >socket module, or another $1000+ if I want a generic PLCC module for more than >one pin count. Is there anything cheaper available for non-Weendoze users? > >MS > > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Mar 20 18:09:33 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze Message-ID: <20040320.160934.336.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I like the pocket programmer. They supply a DOS program, any you can 'upgrade' to Windblows if you like. Check out: http://xtronics.com/memory/EPROM.htm#supported Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Mar 20 16:08:07 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403202214.RAA17315@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) > programmer that doesn't require Weendoze? At the price points you mention (a couple thousand), surely you could build one for yourself? I've read the programming interfaces for only a few devices, but they haven't been complicated enough to be daunting, and I've contemplated building myself a programmer often enough. So far I haven't, but largely because it hasn't been worth it to me - if I were to need one badly enough to be willing to spend hundreds of dollars (on, eg, PLCC sockets, and probably a few chips fried during development), I believe it'd be easy enough. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 20 16:49:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <200403202214.RAA17315@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Mar 20, 4 05:08:07 pm Message-ID: > > > Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) > > programmer that doesn't require Weendoze? > > At the price points you mention (a couple thousand), surely you could > build one for yourself? I've read the programming interfaces for only > a few devices, but they haven't been complicated enough to be daunting, The problem is that the programming algorithms are not documented for most modern devices other than EPROMs and some microcontrollers. You _can't_ make your own programmer for most PLDs, etc... Belive me, I've wanted to do this... -tony From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Mar 20 18:05:38 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that > doesn't require Weendoze? I can use any OS in the Universe (UNIX, Linux, DOS, > etc) except Weendoze, and I need a device programmer that can program a > reasonable set of devices. My most immediate need is to program 3.3V flash > devices in PLCC32 package. Needham's Electronics has nice programmers for a > reasonable price, but they all have "Weendoze required" in the fine print. I > once had a chance to borrow a BP Microsystems BP-1200 and it worked with my DOS > machine (using the original IBM PC/AT unidirectional parallel/serial port card > no less!). I called BP Micro and asked them about their current offerings. > They offered me their cheapest current programmer, BP-1400 and told me that if > BP-1200 worked on my machine then BP-1400 would work too. Then I asked for the > price. They told me that the cheapest 84 pins max version of BP-1400, their > cheapest product, sells for $2000. Add another few hundred for the PLCC32 > socket module, or another $1000+ if I want a generic PLCC module for more than > one pin count. Is there anything cheaper available for non-Weendoze users? > > MS > At one time we made a simple device for our own use for programming 32 pin 5V flash memory chips. It connects to a printer port and has an presetable address counter for generating the flash chips' addresses and a 8->4 mux to be able to read back the data bus plus a PNP transistor for a power switch. It has both a 32 pin dip socket and a 32 pin PLCC socket for the flash chip. The sockets are not ZIF but a ZIF socket can be installed (we use an Emulation Tech 32 DIP to 32 PLCC adapter since we program 100s of BIOS chips) If you only need to program a few hundred PLCCs, the on card socket would be OK We ended up using this much more than our fancy programmer since it just uses a simple DOS program to do the programming, can autoselect the programming algorithm based on the chip ID readback and can be run from a batch file. I am willing to make an updated version of this (with 5V, 3.3V and 2.5V device support) for about $20 if anyone has any interest... Peter Wallace From dmabry at mich.com Sat Mar 20 18:18:01 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <405CDF39.2080101@mich.com> I don't know all the devices that it will program, but the EMP-20 from Needhams runs under DOS. I've used it for many types of EPROMS and it comes standard with adapter cards that configure it for EPROMS. But it may have additional adapters for the devices you need. It is a discontinued model, but I have one to sell if it does what you want and you'd like it. E-mail me privately if interested. Michael Sokolov wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that > doesn't require Weendoze? I can use any OS in the Universe (UNIX, Linux, DOS, > etc) except Weendoze, and I need a device programmer that can program a > reasonable set of devices. My most immediate need is to program 3.3V flash > devices in PLCC32 package. Needham's Electronics has nice programmers for a > reasonable price, but they all have "Weendoze required" in the fine print. I > once had a chance to borrow a BP Microsystems BP-1200 and it worked with my DOS > machine (using the original IBM PC/AT unidirectional parallel/serial port card > no less!). I called BP Micro and asked them about their current offerings. > They offered me their cheapest current programmer, BP-1400 and told me that if > BP-1200 worked on my machine then BP-1400 would work too. Then I asked for the > price. They told me that the cheapest 84 pins max version of BP-1400, their > cheapest product, sells for $2000. Add another few hundred for the PLCC32 > socket module, or another $1000+ if I want a generic PLCC module for more than > one pin count. Is there anything cheaper available for non-Weendoze users? > > MS > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 20 21:20:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 Message-ID: It's basically official: VCF East 2.0 will be held on July 16-17 (Friday-Saturday). More info to come... http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/ Also, check out VCF Europa 5.0 coming up in May: http://www.vcfe.de -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Mar 20 23:53:11 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze Message-ID: <0403210553.AA16730@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Thanks all for your suggestions. I'll probably go with the Transtronics Pocket EPROM Programmer solution. MS From bear at typewritten.org Sun Mar 21 01:30:16 2004 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: need some software Message-ID: <99229C0E-7B09-11D8-8FDE-000A956C4CA0@typewritten.org> howdy y'all I need: * A copy of disk 5 of LucasArts Classic Adventures. Mine seems to have failed. * the R/390 LIC for AIX, so I can at long last install my copy of OS/390 on this goofy thing. Sridhar? Are you still out there? * SunLink FDDI/DX 2.0 software for SunOS 4. This is for the VME FDDI card. This stuff's got to be out there, somewhere. If Steve Gibson gets back to me about why SpinRite 5 hangs on my 5170 AT, I might be able to recover the LIC and special version of CMS for AT/370 in case there's somebody on either list who needs it. Unfortunately I don't have the AT/370 card to go with it, and it seems unlikely I'll get one anytime soon. ok bear From David_Pheanis at inter-tel.com Fri Mar 19 15:28:04 2004 From: David_Pheanis at inter-tel.com (Pheanis, David) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: DEC RF74 Message-ID: <2A477ACFCB59F546A105018592D1C6830479D3C5@TMS-NT-EVS01.inter-tel.com> I'm guessing that you long ago sold your RF74 disk drives. However, if you still have any, I'd be interested in buying one or two from you. Please let me know if you still have any. Thanks. David Pheanis Pheanis@ASU.edu (480) 510-2200 From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Mar 19 17:15:37 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: eBay alternatives: the freecycle movement. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040319181335.025563e0@mail.n.ml.org> Oops, you also forgot GetOff, the store for skinny people to get other's liposuctioned fat ("damnit, fat bastard, get off me"), grin. And then there's SuckOff - 2nd hand vacuum emporium. -John Boffemmyer IV At 06:03 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote: > > > don't need anymore, cleans it up, and sells it for a profit. Everything > > > from rice cookers to washing machines to skis to console games are > bought > > > and sold in Japan's new retail underground. The most successful of > these is > > > BookOff, a chain of used book stores that has 700 locations in Japan. > > > BookOff has been expanding into other areas too, with ToyOff (they sell > > > "almost new" children's toys) and HouseOff (used goods for your home), > > > PetOff (used things for your pet), and the very oddly named HardOff > (used > > > computer hardware and electronics)." > > > > There's also JackOff selling used car jacks, WackOff sell used LARTs, and > > FuckOff selling, well, second-hand blow-up dolls. That particular chain > > is running in the red however. > > >You forgot LiftOff, the used Brassiere emporium and RunOff the discount >laxative store. > >g. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Mar 20 00:25:54 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: OT Windows Profanity Message-ID: <20040320062554.26907.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Don't know how I missed this thread... seems I'm not recieving all of the group mail. >A month ago Monday the windows source code leak happened >and at least one commentator, Michelle DeLeo(sp?) of Wired magazine >said that the source was "filled with profanity". I'd like to find a few >sites with more information on this. Anybody have some good >places to go find out more? A reply offline is fine. >TIA John A. John... I actually have a copy of the Winblows source code and so far have not found any profanity... will keep looking. >Just as a comparative data point - when Australia passed its blue >laws, there were some concerns as to whether the Linux source would >pass scrutiny. The "F Word" appears very frequently in the comments. > Doc Somehow I'm not suprised. >Yeah, I remember most of my code told tales of evil hardware >bugs in the comments... :) >--f LOL... but of course... source code would be source code without the occaisional bit of cussing. >I believe profanity is a common in most likely most source code. I >have had the opportunity to examine extensive amounts of source code >from Atari and it is filled with profanity, poems, quotes, jokes and >inside-jokes... >I think its a way of blowing off steam for programmers and quite frankly >it adds a more personal touch to code to see that it wasn't just written >by a bunch of drones, but from creative, feeling people with a sense of >humor. >Curt Good point... always nice to know that the programmers aren't in fact some highly advanced robots or something. >Well, I've done it before: >"What kind of brain-damaged drone designed this piece of (excrement)?" >"This compiler needs a rewrite. Preferably by someone who isn't a (*beep*)ing >moron" >"Now for something pointless and unnecessary" (just before a "write the same >thing to a port ten times" loop) >"The (*beep*)head who designed this API should be hung, drawn and quartered" >As you can probably guess, I haven't had much luck with compilers, especially >the MICROS~1 compiler. LOL... gotta love it. >I didn't quite go that far, but in some of the code I wrote to directly >access the disk controller under MS-DOS, I had comments that insulted >Intel peripheral chips (which always seem to do the Wrong Thing) and the >PC hardware design... >-tony How could you not insult Intel? They put themselves in a collaborative effort with Microsh~t didn't they? LOL >So end-users aren't the *only* ones swearing at Windows? That's >refreshing to know... :-o Of course we aren't... anyone who designs software that is meant to be absolute sh~t has got to be allowed to vent once in a while. >Bad show when it's the programmers cursing at it, though, huh? Naw... just shows how bad MicroSh~t has really gotten. BTW just so ya'lls know... the guy who wrote windows.h needs to jump off the empire state building. That is about the worst piece of programming I've ever had the misfortune to lay eyes on. What's really pathetic... is that my attempt a few years ago a disassembling the windows software... the code it threw out was actually better then the code I saw in the windows leaked source. It was User32.dll incase you wanted to know. It's pretty bad when a computer spits out better code then what the programmer made in the first place. Lyos Gemini Norezel Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From ly-lp at sac-china.com Sat Mar 20 08:49:24 2004 From: ly-lp at sac-china.com (lipeng) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Is IBM PC BIOS Source still Available? Message-ID: Hi, Steve Since I really need IBM-PC BIOS Source Code, I search for it on Google. Fortunately, I find you message. If it is still available, would you mind mailing it to me. Thanks a lot! Flying. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Mar 21 04:04:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that ... [anti-Windows rant deleted] With all the brains collected on this list, how hard would it be to actually make one, to our own standards? Geez. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Mar 21 04:11:24 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: OT Windows Profanity In-Reply-To: <20040320062554.26907.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > John... I actually have a copy of the Winblows source code and so far have not found any profanity... will keep looking. Who doesn't :) There's at least three 'kits' out there now, they seem to differ in size and content. --f From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Mar 21 06:40:12 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay Message-ID: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> IBM ES/9000 with peripherals: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3085144986&category=1479 --Bill From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Mar 21 07:14:39 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405D953F.2070006@jcwren.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that >> >> >... >[anti-Windows rant deleted] > >With all the brains collected on this list, how hard would it be to >actually make one, to our own standards? Geez. > >--f > > > If you want a device that programs generic parts, not difficult. But many manufacturers do not release the programming algorithms except to companies that are in the business. I can just imagine the support issues. What *I* want is for programmers to stop releasing their own software interfaces. For instance, the Needhams DOS programming software absolutely sucks. The interface is so retarded as to be nearly unscriptable. The BP Microsystems stuff isn't bad at all, but it's not perfect. The old stand-alone Data IO were a crime against nature. What the need to do is provide a common programming API, and let third parties develop the UI software. That way, they'd get support across more OS's, you could use the same UI on different models, and they still can keep their programming algorithms proprietary. I once wrote an open letter to BP, Needhams, DataIO and Tribal about this. They could have focussed their efforts on devices and algorithms and hardware, where their expertice is, not in Windows requirements, or DOS weirdness, etc. To the best of my knowledge (from 6 months ago) no one has a GUI interface for a non-Windows platform. There's no excuse for this, if they would adopt a open API for device selection, programming, verfication, etc. --jc From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Mar 21 09:40:28 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <405D953F.2070006@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > >On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > > > > > >>Does anyone know where I can get a device (EPROM, flash, etc) programmer that > >> > >> > >... > >[anti-Windows rant deleted] > > > >With all the brains collected on this list, how hard would it be to > >actually make one, to our own standards? Geez. > > > >--f > > > > > > > If you want a device that programs generic parts, not difficult. > But many manufacturers do not release the programming algorithms except > to companies that are in the business. I can just imagine the support > issues. > What parts do not have published programming algorithms? I you are buying your own parts, just avoid chips or manufacturers that don't provide this information. To make a universal programmer, yes, getting the programming algorithms for A wide range of chips and manufacturers is a problem, but the original question was about 32 pin EPROM/FLASH. These all have published programming algorithms since they are expected to be programmed in-circuit, so a programmer for this type of chip is easily done. Older GALs (Lattice at least) have a published programming algorithm. Most newer CPLDs that I am aware of have a published programming algorithm (for the same reason as above, they support in-circuit programming) Many microcontrollers have published programming specs... Peter Wallace From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 21 11:04:23 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay In-Reply-To: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: >IBM ES/9000 with peripherals: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3085144986&category=1479 > >--Bill Interesting. I see the seller is brand-new on eBay. If I read the description right it looks like it's 10 racks. I don't know what it would take to get it up and running, but wouldn't that be cool :^) It would be interesting to know what the reserve is set at the opening bid of $1600 seems, how shall I put it, ambitious? Seriously though, what are the odds of it going for anything other than scrap? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Mar 21 11:29:53 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay In-Reply-To: References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <200403211229.53626.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 21 March 2004 12:04, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >IBM ES/9000 with peripherals: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3085144986&catego > >ry=1479 > > > >--Bill > > Interesting. I see the seller is brand-new on eBay. If I read the > description right it looks like it's 10 racks. I don't know what it > would take to get it up and running, but wouldn't that be cool :^) > > It would be interesting to know what the reserve is set at the > opening bid of $1600 seems, how shall I put it, ambitious? > > Seriously though, what are the odds of it going for anything other > than scrap? > > Zane Damn, that's so close to me. I wish I had space for it. Maybe I don't really need a bed... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sun Mar 21 11:40:30 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: dec rack Message-ID: <405DD38E.5010903@ntlworld.com> I have a 6' dec rack with no shelves, anyone know a good place in the UK for these. I want to put some vaxen and sparcs in it. I've been looking on ebay for a couple of weeks. Thanks Dan From spc at conman.org Sun Mar 21 12:02:08 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <405D953F.2070006@jcwren.com> from "J.C. Wren" at Mar 21, 2004 08:14:39 AM Message-ID: <20040321180208.68C2810B12E0@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great J.C. Wren once stated: > > What the need to do is provide a common programming API, and let > third parties develop the UI software. That way, they'd get support > across more OS's, you could use the same UI on different models, and > they still can keep their programming algorithms proprietary. I once > wrote an open letter to BP, Needhams, DataIO and Tribal about this. > They could have focussed their efforts on devices and algorithms and > hardware, where their expertice is, not in Windows requirements, or DOS > weirdness, etc. Won't happen unless there is a *lot* of pressure from customers. A *lot*. If such a thing did happen, then why should I stick with DataIO? Or Tribal? That means these companies will actually have to *gasp* "compete!" The way it is now, they have a lock (supposedly) on their existing user base [1]. A common API could potentially commoditize their product and while that's good from a consumer's point of view, it's not necessarily something a company wants [2]. -spc (A former business partner/boss was always going on about forming "proprietary" products and services ... ) [1] If any of these companies are public, their customers are *not* the people that use their products, but instead are shareholders. And in shareholder logic, a "proprietary product or service" is a Good Thing (TM). [2] There's a reason Microsoft repeatedly attempts to "extend" such free standards as Kerberos, HTTP, HTML, etc. "Competition is a sin." --John D. Rockefeller. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 21 12:19:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Mar 21, 4 07:40:28 am Message-ID: > What parts do not have published programming algorithms? I you are buying your I have yet to find a reasomably complex PLD (that is something more than one of the ispGALs) that is 100% documented. That is to say that you can go from logic equations to chip without any proprietary software, either the logic compiler or the programming software. I would love to be wrong about this -- if anyone knows of such a device, let me know, please! > own parts, just avoid chips or manufacturers that don't provide this > information. I do.... -tony From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Mar 21 12:49:51 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:15 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay BED! References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <200403211229.53626.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <004e01c40f75$4af55980$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Bed? Heck put a ladder up the side of one rack cab. and throw the mattress on top of the cluster of racks! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:29 AM Subject: Re: Seriously big iron on Ebay > On Sunday 21 March 2004 12:04, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >IBM ES/9000 with peripherals: > > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3085144986&catego > > >ry=1479 > > > > > >--Bill > > > > Interesting. I see the seller is brand-new on eBay. If I read the > > description right it looks like it's 10 racks. I don't know what it > > would take to get it up and running, but wouldn't that be cool :^) > > > > It would be interesting to know what the reserve is set at the > > opening bid of $1600 seems, how shall I put it, ambitious? > > > > Seriously though, what are the odds of it going for anything other > > than scrap? > > > > Zane > > Damn, that's so close to me. I wish I had space for it. Maybe I don't > really need a bed... > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Mar 21 13:29:34 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze References: Message-ID: <16477.60702.776000.96601@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> What parts do not have published programming algorithms? I you are >> buying your Tony> I have yet to find a reasomably complex PLD (that is something Tony> more than one of the ispGALs) that is 100% documented. That is Tony> to say that you can go from logic equations to chip without any Tony> proprietary software, either the logic compiler or the Tony> programming software. That's a good point though I think the big issue there is the early steps. The programming itself is often easy since it doesn't use odd voltages or timings, just a plain bitstream clocked in via a serial port. One of the FPGA vendors created a particularly clean setup called "Jaz" (forgot who -- Altera?), I wrote software to drive that which was quite painless. But the real issue is that NO ONE will tell you the internals of their FPGA, so you can't figure out the bit patterns that you need to perform a given logic function. Too bad really, because the logic synthesis software available from the chip vendors often sucks pretty badly. I have a bunch of battle scars coping with really stupid bugs in Lattice tools, which will not be fixed since they are apparently considered normal behavior. I think if you have infinite pull the situation is sometimes better -- I've seen some evidence that DEC was able to get Xilinx to tell it how to synthesize for those chips. And they did it much better... but those were research tools in the Palo Alto group only. paul From melamy at earthlink.net Sun Mar 21 13:50:42 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Is IBM PC BIOS Source still Available? Message-ID: <21030481.42617@webbox.com> sorry for the list intrusion, but who ever sent this did not provide an email address that I can reply to. Email me directly at sthatcher@melamy.com with a good email address. Thanks. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "lipeng" >To: >Date: 3/20/04 9:49:24 AM > Hi, Steve > >Since I really need IBM-PC BIOS Source Code, I search for it on Google. >Fortunately, I find you message. If it is still available, would you mind >mailing it to me. > >Thanks a lot! > >Flying. > > > From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 21 14:13:52 2004 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040321161210.02cb0390@pop1.ns.sympatico.ca> Hi Sellam, I would like to be a exhibitor at the VCF east. I filled out the form on the webpage a few days ago, but didn't get a response. Did you receive the application? Greeting from Canada Herbert At 11:20 PM 3/20/04, you wrote: >It's basically official: VCF East 2.0 will be held on July 16-17 >(Friday-Saturday). > >More info to come... > >http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/ > >Also, check out VCF Europa 5.0 coming up in May: > >http://www.vcfe.de > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From chd_1 at nktelco.net Sun Mar 21 14:17:48 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: installing 2.11 BSD In-Reply-To: <200403191857.i2JIvkot029686@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200403191857.i2JIvkot029686@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <405DF86C.1040602@nktelco.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I just obtained a 50 pin SCSI drive for my 11/83, so now I'm ready to go! >> >> >>Any suggestions? >> >> > >Here is a THEORY, that I haven't had time to test. Put the disk on a system >that runs SIMH or E11, 'dd' it to a disk file. Use that disk file as the HD >image that you install the OS on using either SIMH or E11. Then 'dd' the >disk file back to the HD, install the HD in your PDP-11/83, and boot. > >Please note this is a THEORY that a couple of us have discussed for other >PDP-11 OS's that no one to my knowledge has had the time to try, but there >is a good chance it will work (though Unix might be a bit more picky). > > Zane > > It does work. I used that method with simh to create a set of 9-track installation tapes for 2.11BSD on a pdp-11/73. At the time, I don't think MSCP was supported by simh so I used maybe an RP07 in simh to hold the system. I 'dd'ed the image directly to the SCSI disk after making sure there was a kernel that could handle MSCP. I booted the standalone system from an RX50 on the real hardware and then started unix from the SCSI drive. I then wrote the tapes and restarted the installation from new tapes. Now that simh supports MSCP, TMSCP, and ethernet, it would probably be faster to generate the system on simh completely, including 'localizing' for networking and your hardware, than to do it on the real machine... But then that wouldn't be nearly as much fun... -chuck From ulf.andersson at ipbolaget.com Sun Mar 21 15:09:42 2004 From: ulf.andersson at ipbolaget.com (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: SV: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <16477.60702.776000.96601@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > Paul Koning wrote: > > But the real issue is that NO ONE will tell you the internals of their > FPGA, so you can't figure out the bit patterns that you need to > perform a given logic function. Too bad really, because the logic > synthesis software available from the chip vendors often sucks pretty > badly. I have a bunch of battle scars coping with really stupid bugs > in Lattice tools, which will not be fixed since they are apparently > considered normal behavior. > > I think if you have infinite pull the situation is sometimes better -- > I've seen some evidence that DEC was able to get Xilinx to tell it how > to synthesize for those chips. And they did it much better... but > those were research tools in the Palo Alto group only. > Oh, they do tell you, but for a substantial fee, and an NDA to go with that, just to make shure they can sue your pants off when you happen to spill the secret... :) There is rumor of a Verilog simulator/synthesiser that speaks Xilinx. I have not yet tried it but here is the link: http://www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/ It is for free and as such it might suck, but at least it do that for a moderate fee. Have fun. /Ulf A. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Mar 21 15:06:03 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: <405D953F.2070006@jcwren.com> References: <405D953F.2070006@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <200403212116.QAA10669@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > What the need to do is provide a common programming API, and let > third parties develop the UI software. That way, they'd get support > across more OS's, you could use the same UI on different models, and > they still can keep their programming algorithms proprietary. This still has many of the same problems as completely proprietary programming interfaces. Notably, it ties the user to x86 hardware (since you _know_ nobody's going to bother providing the proprietary part for anything else) and it requires placing a great deal of trust in the company, since it involves handing control over to foreign binaries. Also, you need a well-defined API not only for the layer interface _above_ the proprietary code but also the layer interface _below_ the proprietary code, or else you've not helped the OS situation any because you're stuck with whatever OS they've chosen to write their proprietary code atop. (And, as above, you _know_ that's going to be Windows.) > To the best of my knowledge (from 6 months ago) no one has a GUI > interface for a non-Windows platform. There's no excuse for this, if > they would adopt a open API for device selection, programming, > verfication, etc. I don't think even that would help much - see above. The only fixes I can see are (1) to scrap the whole proprietary software bit or (2) to use a p-code engine to run the proprietary portion of the software. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Mar 21 15:26:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: SV: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze References: <16477.60702.776000.96601@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16478.2193.577000.995175@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ulf" == Ulf Andersson writes: >> Paul Koning wrote: >> >> But the real issue is that NO ONE will tell you the internals of >> their FPGA, so you can't figure out the bit patterns that you need >> to perform a given logic function. Too bad really, because the >> logic synthesis software available from the chip vendors often >> sucks pretty badly. I have a bunch of battle scars coping with >> really stupid bugs in Lattice tools, which will not be fixed since >> they are apparently considered normal behavior. >> >> I think if you have infinite pull the situation is sometimes >> better -- I've seen some evidence that DEC was able to get Xilinx >> to tell it how to synthesize for those chips. And they did it >> much better... but those were research tools in the Palo Alto >> group only. >> Ulf> Oh, they do tell you, but for a substantial fee, and an NDA to Ulf> go with that, just to make shure they can sue your pants off Ulf> when you happen to spill the secret... :) Ulf> There is rumor of a Verilog simulator/synthesiser that speaks Ulf> Xilinx. I have not yet tried it but here is the link: Ulf> http://www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/ Ulf> It is for free and as such it might suck, but at least it do Ulf> that for a moderate fee. Cool. But I was talking about the place & route and programming bit pattern generators. Those are still deep secrets. Place and route is the one that I find myself fighting with. Things like: (a) run a synthesis, with pins unlocked. (b) just to check things, run the exact same design with the pins locked to what (a) chose. Result: synthesis fails, not enough room. #&@$*(#@* so how is a person supposed to create a design that can be tweaked and still work on the same PCB layout? Answer: this is normal. Gronk. I guess it's a trick to make you buy bigger FPGAs... paul From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 21 16:30:19 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay BED! References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100><200403211229.53626.pat@computer-refuge.org> <004e01c40f75$4af55980$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <007601c40f94$1860f3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Bed? Heck put a ladder up the side of one rack cab. and throw > the mattress on top of the cluster of racks! With talk like this, anybody want to admit to having a floor fail out from under their collection? This stuff Is heavy. Personally I'll admit to having a few 1" deflections here and there. Nothing worse. Yet. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 21 16:42:59 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Ebay categories (was: Seriously big iron on Ebay) References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <008501c40f95$dd5fbfc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > IBM ES/9000 with peripherals: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3085144986&category=1479 To the poster who earlier had complained about eBay's categories having been messed up, notice here. The Category is: Computers & Networking > Networking > Mainframe, DEC, VAX, AS/400 > DEC, Digital Equipment Corp 1./ This attempts to say that larger computers are in fact networking equipment, since they are not PC's. 2./ Many listers therein (if you look) seem to like saying that IBM AS400's and other equipment qualify as "DEC" equipment. Both pretty bad. Guess that makes your point. VCM starting to look better and better... John A. From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Mar 21 17:11:17 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > What parts do not have published programming algorithms? I you are buying your > > I have yet to find a reasomably complex PLD (that is something more than > one of the ispGALs) that is 100% documented. That is to say that you can > go from logic equations to chip without any proprietary software, either > the logic compiler or the programming software. > > I would love to be wrong about this -- if anyone knows of such a device, > let me know, please! > > > own parts, just avoid chips or manufacturers that don't provide this > > information. > > I do.... > > -tony > Programming is what I was talking about, the tools for generating config files for complex FPGAs and CPLDs is another subject altogether, though it would probably not be too difficult to do a few basic configurations and reverse engineer the internal architecture from the JEDEC or SVF file for a 9500 series CPLD for example... Peter Wallace From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Mar 21 17:15:58 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources Message-ID: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> I'm looking for two items to get a couple of machines back in operation. First, I have a Heathkit H-17 drive with a broken fuse holder (the black plastic tube with the red button on the end) that I'd like to replace. I can obviously bypass, solder the fuse in-line or use any old holder, but I'd like a "correct" replacement. Does anyone have a source for these? A part number would also help. The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power switch. The switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in gray plastic with a 1 and a 0 printed on it. Again, I can replace it but I'd like a "correct" part if anyone has a source, part number or spare. Thanks in advance! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Mar 21 18:01:41 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: SV: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:26:41 EST." <16478.2193.577000.995175@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200403220001.i2M01fm09011@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: > >Place and route is the one that I find myself fighting with. Things >like: (a) run a synthesis, with pins unlocked. (b) just to check >things, run the exact same design with the pins locked to what (a) >chose. Result: synthesis fails, not enough room. #&@$*(#@* so how >is a person supposed to create a design that can be tweaked and still >work on the same PCB layout? Heh. I thought it was just me that had that problem :-) (trying to squeeze 5.1lbs in to a 4.995lbs bag :-) I was just concidering this same point this morning. I think the trick is to try out several variations before you layout the pcb and keep the utiltization under 70%... I often have to fiddle endlessly to get some designs to fit (and use the correct pins). (I generally pick xilinx parts which have a 2x size with the same pinout just in case) >Answer: this is normal. Gronk. I guess it's a trick to make you buy >bigger FPGAs... ahah! :-) -brad From dan at ekoan.com Sun Mar 21 17:40:02 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Boot disk for Philips P2000C? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040321182902.0700a160@enigma> Hello, I recently acquired a Philips P2000C "portable" computer. It came with a couple of 5.25" application disks but is missing a C/PM boot disk. I checked the archives mentioned here recently but couldn't find one for this machine. Does anyone out there have a boot disk they could send me in Teledisk or similar format? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 21 18:57:02 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze In-Reply-To: "J.C. Wren" "Re: Looking for a device programmer that doesn't require Weendoze" (Mar 20, 16:58) References: <0403202131.AA16404@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <405CBE9E.2080301@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <10403220057.ZM11273@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 20, 16:58, J.C. Wren wrote: > I know nothing about them other than ads on the back of Circuit Cellar > Ink, but have you looked at the Datamans? They purport to be > standalone, as I recall. They are, and they have a serial interface that accepts commands so your job can be scripted. I have an S3, but if you want to program GALs and newer devices (other than EPROM/Flash) you'd want an S4. -- Peter Turnbull From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Mar 21 19:12:11 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay BED! In-Reply-To: <007601c40f94$1860f3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <004e01c40f75$4af55980$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> <007601c40f94$1860f3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200403212012.11004.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 21 March 2004 17:30, John Allain wrote: > > Bed? Heck put a ladder up the side of one rack cab. and throw > > the mattress on top of the cluster of racks! > > With talk like this, anybody want to admit to having a floor fail out > from under their collection? This stuff Is heavy. > Personally I'll admit to having a few 1" deflections here and there. > Nothing worse. Yet. Well, I *hope* mine doesn't, as it's a concrete slab foundation... though my S/390 does depress the carpeting quite a bit. And Ed, I can't really put my mattress on top of the racks, as if they're 7ft tall, the mattress adds about 8", and I know I'm thicker than 4"... Wow, to think I actually took the time to consider that.... I can't wait to graduate and move into somewhere that doesn't suck so much. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From paulpenn at knology.net Sun Mar 21 20:44:17 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net><000d01c40d53$465bbb40$20db3fd0@DOMAIN><004101c40e2c$fbb353c0$6401a8c0@knology.net> <002501c40e2f$7b653aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <00b201c40fb7$94298f80$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Jay West" said: > Geeze... I almost had a deal made on one Paul... until you posted those > prices! Sorry about that! I wouldn't pay over $50 for one, so I guess that means I won't get one. As I said, I'm looking forward to hacking in a serial port and more memory. Don't really see the point of BASIC when there's no keyboard. I think I'll just use it as intended, as a trainer and prototyping system. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Mar 21 21:38:46 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: FW: [Fwd: Old Teletype Paper] Message-ID: <000001c40fbf$2ee44ae0$947ba8c0@p933> Hello folks, Hopefully someone here can give Steve a hand. Please respond to his email address below. Thanks! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Old Teletype Paper From: "Dresner, Steve (NBC)" Date: Sun, March 21, 2004 5:10 pm To: "'webmaster@vintage-computer.com'" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Old Teletype Paper Erik: I worked at NBC-TV and have a question. We're looking for old, yellow teletype paper that's showing its age. Any I bought a few boxes from a guys several year's ago and lost his name and number. Any suggestions about who or where sells aged paper? Thanks for your time and assistance. Steve Dresner Producer, "The George Michael SportsMachine" WRC-TV Sports 4001 Nebraska Ave., N.W. Washington, DC 20016 202.885.4127 From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 21 22:22:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Ebay categories (was: Seriously big iron on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <008501c40f95$dd5fbfc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, John Allain wrote: > VCM starting to look better and better... VCM *is* better. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Mar 22 00:18:34 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Fwd: Byte Magazine Message-ID: <000001c40fd5$818d0550$947ba8c0@p933> Hello all, George is looking to get rid of a bunch of Byte Magazines. Please contact him directly at the email address below. The usual disclaimers apply. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: RE: Vintage Computer From: gpd7617@sbcglobal.net Date: Sat, March 20, 2004 6:05 pm To: webmaster@vintage-computer.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- I was finally able to inventory all my Byte magazines. This is what I have: 1976 - Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov, & Dec 1977 - Jan, Feb, Apr thru Sept and Nov 1978 - Feb thru July, Sept thru Dec 1979 - Jan thru Dec 1980 - Jan thru Dec 1981 - Jan thru Dec 1982 - Jan thru Dec 1983 - Jan thru July 1984 - Mar thru Dec and a Special Issue 1995 - Jan thru Dec 1996 - Jan thru September I now have them in three boxes and they must weigh over 100 pounds. George From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Mar 22 01:18:38 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay BED! References: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100><004e01c40f75$4af55980$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED><007601c40f94$1860f3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200403212012.11004.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <00e901c40fdd$e5c2bb70$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> yea the short ceilings will get ya... forgot about that... have giant tall ones here. actually could stack racks two high and then would need a real tall ladder... but at the old museum building we are cursed with short ceilings... TIME TO BUY A NEW BUILDING! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Seriously big iron on Ebay BED! > On Sunday 21 March 2004 17:30, John Allain wrote: > > > Bed? Heck put a ladder up the side of one rack cab. and throw > > > the mattress on top of the cluster of racks! > > > > With talk like this, anybody want to admit to having a floor fail out > > from under their collection? This stuff Is heavy. > > Personally I'll admit to having a few 1" deflections here and there. > > Nothing worse. Yet. > > Well, I *hope* mine doesn't, as it's a concrete slab foundation... > though my S/390 does depress the carpeting quite a bit. > > And Ed, I can't really put my mattress on top of the racks, as if > they're 7ft tall, the mattress adds about 8", and I know I'm thicker > than 4"... > > Wow, to think I actually took the time to consider that.... I can't > wait to graduate and move into somewhere that doesn't suck so much. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > > From b.hakim at chello.nl Sun Mar 21 11:49:55 2004 From: b.hakim at chello.nl (Hakim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of Gespac? Message-ID: <000601c40f6d$03802c40$b3665dd5@arnhem.chello.nl> Hi! I am looking for the schema or data sheet of the gesinc encoder card gespac.... Thank you. From envr1265acav at cogeco.ca Sun Mar 21 10:41:46 2004 From: envr1265acav at cogeco.ca (A. Cavasin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Old computer stuff available - DECwriterII LA36 and modem Message-ID: <000c01c40f63$66ffde00$4535fea9@mastera7v333xp> Hi everyone. I've been directed to your mail list by Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices who is also a collector of old computer stuff. I have a few things in my basement that will be looking for a new home soon. I live in the Niagara Region of Ontario but I also have relatives in Toronto, Montreal and in Ottawa (Canada) who could bring stuff to their home for pickup. Shipping is an option if you wish to pay for it. I currently have available a Digital DECwriter II LA36 printer/terminal with serial connector (owner's manual included) and handset 300 baud modem. I found a couple of pictures on the web and am attaching them for your reference. My unit is in good working condition (when last used a few years ago) with an unused spare ribbon either with it or already installed. It also has a side table about 8 or 10 inches wide which can be mounted on either side. I have some other stuff available also but I can list those later. At this time, please let me know if you, or anyone you know, is interested in these two items (above). A nominal price would be appreciated. Please contact me to make arrangements or to let me know of your interest. Also, please let me know if this is an appropriate forum for making my old stuff available. Thanks in advance for your consideration. Andrew From pkalaher at mac.com Sun Mar 21 10:19:24 2004 From: pkalaher at mac.com (Patrick Kalaher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Teac Tape Drive Message-ID: <12828032.1079885964672.JavaMail.pkalaher@mac.com> Hi there; I saw your post in Classiccmp from last July; "If you are still interested, I have a total of 11 compatible tapes (8 Teac CT-600N and 3 Maxell CS-600XD). All are used and have used labels. As far as I know, they all still work. (I still have the tape drive as well, but have no longer an operating Apple system, so I cannot check these)." DO you still have the tape drive? I'd be interested in buying it from you... thanks, -pbk From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Mar 21 12:01:26 2004 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: NEC PC8200, 8201 Message-ID: <200403211801.i2LI1SmV025347@mail.wzrd.com> I have 10 or maybe 12 of these babies, all from the 80s. The oldest would be from 84 and the newest maybe 87 or 88. Some have the original vinyl case and others have hand-made insulated cases (they were used outside for data collection). Dry cell battery holders only (no NiCads). Some have 16k, some 32k and maybe one with 64k? When I stored them, they all worked. There are no documentation sets for them. There are no cassette tapes for them. Most or all of them have stickon labels identifying their function (in my operation), so a bit of cleaning will be necessary. I need reimbursement for actual shipping costs, only. Contact me by making the obvious substitution: runtime (at) wzrd.com Don Mitchell Runtime Services From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Mar 22 03:36:49 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Old computer stuff available - DECwriterII LA36 and modem References: <000c01c40f63$66ffde00$4535fea9@mastera7v333xp> Message-ID: <00db01c40ff1$337f9230$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Hi, Andrew. I am definitely interested in the DECwriter. :) Been looking for one of these for a while. Is it in good cosmetic condition as well as in working order? Thanks, William Maddox ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Cavasin" To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: Old computer stuff available - DECwriterII LA36 and modem > Hi everyone. > I've been directed to your mail list by Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices > who is also a collector of old computer stuff. > > I have a few things in my basement that will be looking for a new home soon. > I live in the Niagara Region of Ontario but I also have relatives in > Toronto, Montreal and in Ottawa (Canada) who could bring stuff to their home > for pickup. Shipping is an option if you wish to pay for it. > > I currently have available a Digital DECwriter II LA36 printer/terminal > with > serial connector (owner's manual included) and handset 300 baud modem. I > found a couple of pictures on the web and am attaching them for your > reference. My unit is in good working condition (when last used a few years > ago) with an unused spare ribbon > either with it or already installed. It also has a side table about 8 or 10 > inches wide which can be mounted on either side. > > I have some other stuff available also but I can list those later. > > At this time, please let me know if you, or anyone you know, is interested > in these two items (above). A nominal price would be appreciated. > > Please contact me to make arrangements or to let me know of your interest. > Also, please let me know if this is an appropriate forum for making my old > stuff available. Thanks in advance for your consideration. > > Andrew > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 22 07:35:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: ET phone home :) References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <006201c41012$8875e520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well, actually, for the ET-3400 my interest isn't so much "collecting" as it is just plain technical interest. I would be happy with a replica of the ETA-3400 to hook up to my ET3400. Is it a complex box to duplicate? Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From waisun.chia at hp.com Mon Mar 22 08:10:26 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Opening a VAX2000 In-Reply-To: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403190343.AA12855@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <405EF3D2.8040804@hp.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: > KA620 is something I've heard about, but never figured out exactly what it was. > It was some kind of slightly hobbled KA630, wasn't it? Maybe a KA630 w/o FPU? > Does anyone know? I'm quite curious, as that's a gap in my VAX knowledge and > such gaps bother me. :-) > When in doubt Google it ;-) KA620 (rtVAX): A "dumb" MicroVAX processor module, aimed at the OEM-world, used in process controlling systems. The word "dumb" means "unable to run VMS". It was used in the LPS40 network printer for example. /ws From runtime at wzrd.com Mon Mar 22 08:11:01 2004 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: NEC PC8200, 8201 Message-ID: <200403221411.i2MEB3mV004477@mail.wzrd.com> Folks -- I spoke too soon about the 8200s. I thought I had some. Maybe that model never even existed. In fact they are all model 8201A. And I also might have been unclear -- I'm not looking to unload them in a block. One by one, please, and so far (Monday 0900 EST) three are spoken for. Don Don Mitchell Runtime Services runtime (at) wzrd.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 22 09:43:36 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: CCmp Device Programmer (was: Re: Looking...) In-Reply-To: <10403220057.ZM11273@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Guys, Damn, how come anything I say always ends up in these insanely lengthy discussions? :) Although I can see why there would be a problem with "smart" devices like PLDs et al, why dont we hide such smartness in firmware that is executed by the processor of the programmer? What I would like to see is a device that can be talked to using one of (serial|parallel|usb) methods (so pretty much any platform of any age can talk to it), and which can be told what to do using a sort-of standardized (ASCII-based) language: >> RESET >> DEVICE SELECT 27C512 >> DOWNLOAD Start sending data please, end with . on single line. [some recognized data format flies by] . >> OK, Motorola HEX format detected, 440KB received. >> UPLOAD Programming 27C512 ... 100% >> We separate the various parts of the problem. We no longer care about HOW to talk to it. You choose. We also no longer care HOW the data is formatted. Send it, and the firmware will bitch at you if you're sending an MPEG movie :) The real trick would be the logic behind the UPLOAD command, which of course is the part where the stuff we sent to it will be sent to the device- EPROM, EEPROM, whatever. Based on the selected device type, this will use one of its algorithms to write to it. Although not perfect, wouldn't this solve most of the probs with platform dependentness and so on? Yes, for the smart device you still need to use the vendor's preparation tools to generate the bits that have to be stuffed into the dev, but at elast once that is done, you can use this thingie to actually do that. Anyone here with decent microcontroller experience ? :) -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Mar 22 09:44:26 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: dec rack In-Reply-To: <405DD38E.5010903@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <001501c41024$8e827d40$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I have a 6' dec rack with no shelves, anyone know a good place in the UK > for these. I want to put some vaxen and sparcs in it. I've been looking > on ebay for a couple of weeks. > Seems to me that they come up quite often usually Listed in category: Computing > Networking, IT > Other, Networking & IT see for example http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3086053654&category=176 not exactly what you want but may be of use Andy From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Mar 22 09:54:10 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: Erik Klein wrote: >...The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power switch. The >switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in gray plastic with a 1 and a >0 printed on it. Again, I can replace it but I'd like a "correct" part >if anyone has a source, part number or spare. This is a reasonably common failure - mine has the same problem (replaced by two SPST's side-by-side which I take pains to throw simultaneously) and I've read of at least one other (years ago, on this list). When/if they are found, please post on the list - I'll definitely want one too. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 22 09:58:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Tapley writes: Mark> Erik Klein wrote: >> ...The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power >> switch. The switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in gray >> plastic with a 1 and a 0 printed on it. Again, I can replace it >> but I'd like a "correct" part if anyone has a source, part number >> or spare. Mark> This is a reasonably common failure - mine has the same problem Mark> (replaced by two SPST's side-by-side which I take pains to Mark> throw simultaneously) and I've read of at least one other Mark> (years ago, on this list). When/if they are found, please post Mark> on the list - I'll definitely want one too. In the US, just one SPST should suffice, if it's in the live wire. You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find unpolarized outlets. paul From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Mar 22 10:06:58 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20040322160658.GA14445@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 09:54:10AM -0600, Mark Tapley wrote: > Erik Klein wrote: > > >...The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power switch. > > This is a reasonably common failure - mine has the same problem > (replaced by two SPST's side-by-side which I take pains to throw > simultaneously) and I've read of at least one other (years ago, on > this list). When/if they are found, please post on the list - I'll > definitely want one too. I got a free VT240 a while back because the power switch was FUBAR. I didn't bother with a "real" replacement; I went for functional. Radio Shack has (had?) a drop-in substitute, all black, with a more angular rocker. No modification of the DEC case required. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Mar-2004 16:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -77.5 F (-60.8 C) Windchill -98.59 F (-72.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.8 kts Grid 071 Barometer 682.4 mb (10536 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Mar 22 10:52:56 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit ETA-3400 References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net> <006201c41012$8875e520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <003801c4102e$26bee040$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Jay West" said: > Well, actually, for the ET-3400 my interest isn't so much "collecting" as it > is just plain technical interest. I would be happy with a replica of the > ETA-3400 to hook up to my ET3400. Is it a complex box to duplicate? What do you want to do with it? I don't have one, but I understand an ETA-3400 adds a serial port, more memory, Tiny BASIC, and a cassette interface. The serial port is easily implemented with a 6850 and a one-chip RS-232 driver. Adding on more memory should also be one chip (64K x 8 static RAM?) and maybe an EPROM to replace the 1K monitor ROM. Those are the only things I am really interested in doing. Hopefully I can make it load and store programs down the serial port to a PC. As for the cassette port, not interested in going down that road again! Has the manual for the ETA-3400 been scanned and put on a web site anywhere? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Mar 22 12:08:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: CCmp Device Programmer (was: Re: Looking...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403221809.NAA20087@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Although I can see why there would be a problem with "smart" devices > like PLDs et al, why dont we hide such smartness in firmware that is > executed by the processor of the programmer? Because what we're talking about is building our own programmers, in that terminology. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Mar 22 12:11:43 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Tapley writes: > > Mark> Erik Klein wrote: > >> ...The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power > >> switch. The switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in gray > >> plastic with a 1 and a 0 printed on it. Again, I can replace it > >> but I'd like a "correct" part if anyone has a source, part number > >> or spare. > > Mark> This is a reasonably common failure - mine has the same problem > Mark> (replaced by two SPST's side-by-side which I take pains to > Mark> throw simultaneously) and I've read of at least one other > Mark> (years ago, on this list). When/if they are found, please post > Mark> on the list - I'll definitely want one too. > >In the US, just one SPST should suffice, if it's in the live wire. >You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find >unpolarized outlets. I don't think they are in the same circuit. I'll have to go back home tonight and dig out my Rainbow to check (unless someone beats me to it). -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Mar 22 12:09:53 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200403221909.OAA20564@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > In the US, just one SPST should suffice, if it's in the live wire. ...and you use a three-wire grounded plug (which admittedly approximately all computer equipment does). > You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find > unpolarized outlets. And because in some parts of Europe you find balanced mains, rather than hot-and-neutral mains. (That is, the two power wires are each hot to ground, 180? out of phase with respect to one another, very much like what in North America would be a 220V outlet.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 22 13:20:35 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200403221909.OAA20564@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16479.15491.456843.278594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: >> In the US, just one SPST should suffice, if it's in the live wire. der> ...and you use a three-wire grounded plug (which admittedly der> approximately all computer equipment does). >> You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find >> unpolarized outlets. der> And because in some parts of Europe you find balanced mains, der> rather than hot-and-neutral mains. (That is, the two power der> wires are each hot to ground, 180?? out of phase with respect to der> one another, very much like what in North America would be a der> 220V outlet.) I don't think so. In Europe, plain old home service is 220 volts live to neutral. If you have three phase, it's Y service, 220 volts phase to neutral, 380 volts phase to phase. (UK is 240 and 415, otherwise same story.) paul From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Mar 22 13:23:57 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <16479.15491.456843.278594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200403221909.OAA20564@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16479.15491.456843.278594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200403221927.OAA20748@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find >>> unpolarized outlets. >> And because in some parts of Europe you find balanced mains, rather >> than hot-and-neutral mains. > I don't think so. In Europe, plain old home service is 220 volts > live to neutral. This depends on where in Europe. Most of Europe is, I understand, as you describe, but the part of Norway I was in (Troms?) certainly used balanced (or at least approximately balanced) mains, and I'm told it's usual in the rest of Norway too. There may be other such areas, though I don't know of any specific examples. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Mar 22 13:33:11 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Decitek 262 Tape Reader Manual? Message-ID: Hey, all: I just ran into some small but nice finds, including an older Decitek 262 tape reader (this one is model #262D9-005). Of course I have the standard old problem that there's no manual or documentation for it at all, which makes testing and using it a lot less easy. Anyone have an online copy of the manual somewhere, or a real-life manual they'd be willing to loan or copy? (I wrote to Decitek to see if they had a copy available. They told me they didn't support the unit any more, but they'd be happy to give me a $200 trade-in for a new one. Er, no, not quite what I had in mind. ) -O.- From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 22 13:57:53 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: VAX Architecture (was KA620) In-Reply-To: <0403200003.AA15638@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <003301c41047$f75287c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Hmm, did they seek process page tables in physical or in > system virtual memory? If the latter, I don't see how can > they be called rtVAX, as that by definition means the former. > If the former, how can you do that with a standard VAX chip? > Or does CVAX have an undocumented hack pin which when tied > opposite to what general specs say causes it to seek process > page tables in physical memory? I think that the chip used in the KA620 was the only modified VAX chip - the other rtVAX machines were AFAIK based on real CVAX chips. I don't think that there was ever a formal definition of rtVAX: it was just a way of selling a VAX-like chpi in the early days that would not run VMS but would run VAXeln or a customer's own OS. Later on I guess someone decided the whole thing was a silly waste of time and it was easier to sell unmodified chips on an rtVAX board rather than waste effort producing a CVAX variant. > STD 032 for completeness, but this task can be left until > later when we can raise a large enough army (using human > cloning, genetic eng. and neurolinguistic programming to make > perfect killing-machine soldiers) to invade and overrun USA > including ex-DEC facilities and archives. I heard the archives (or what was left of them) headed off to the Computer Museum in Boston. Anything left now is just sitting in someone's cupboard rather than in a central repository. > So this only leaves SID codes 0x0C, 0x0D and 0x0F as > unexplained gaps. I suppose that perhaps 0x0F could have I know at least one VAX never made it out: it was called Ravne and was (probably) an ECL-based machine. You now know as much about it as I do! I expect that there must have been other abandoned projects. > One reason it's important to understand the complete history > of SID code assignments is that if we start building new > VAXen, we'll need a new SID code registry. I plan on calling I think that both Alpha and MIPs had SID assignments. I think Alpha was 1024 and above, MIPs was 128 and above (but presumably below 127). So if you pick 126 and work downwards you should be safe :-) Good luck finding documentation for this: it's just something I think I vaguely remember. > Interestingly, however, it appears that at some point there > were diagnostic programs available to the general public > that, judging from the descriptions, apparently do similar > instruction testing, though they were presumably intended for > troubleshooting broken hardware rather than for validating > new implementations. The KA820 Technical Manual, for > example, refers to these: There were machine-specific and peripheral-specific diagnostic tools used by Field Service. I expect self- maintenance customers cuold have had access to these. I've never come across any of these diags but the best place to find them would be ebay or an ex-FS engineer. Whether the diags would still be readable is another matter! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 22 14:05:44 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: VAX11/750 Front Panel on Ebay Message-ID: <4D655CD9-7C3C-11D8-8F5D-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> BIN only for $80: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=1247&item=2788320654 $80 seems steep, but I don't have an 11/750 that needs one either. :) He's got a lot of high-prices DEC gear listed, including some DEC5000 MIPS and DEC3000 Alpha parts. Not affiliated ad nauseam. Doc From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 22 14:39:58 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794565538&category=124 7&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3ABIN&rd=1 Gaah! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Mar 22 15:21:05 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies References: Message-ID: <000601c41053$960d4ac0$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Bloody newbies > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794565538&category=124 > 7&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3ABIN&rd=1 > > Gaah! > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > I guess I haven't figured out the intricacies of Ebay yet. Why are there 8 consecutive bids from the same person?Plus other consecutive bids from this same bidder? Do you think people misconstrued the model number as the serial number? The seller didn't mention that some of these early ones were signed by Jobs and Woz. Or is that myth? bm From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 22 15:33:34 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040322163031.00ae5030@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >It's basically official: VCF East 2.0 will be held on July 16-17 >(Friday-Saturday). I've already told the wife what I want for my birthday -- and so we have a couple of months to line up babysitters, etc. etc. From the sounds of it, barring the earth exploding before then, I'm gonna be there! Having never been to one before, is there any lodging discounts / reservations at a particular hotel, or is it "Fend for oneself?" Thanks! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 22 15:50:06 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: >Do you think people misconstrued the model number as the serial number? The >seller didn't mention that some of these early ones were signed by Jobs and >Woz. Or is that myth? I don't know about Jobs and Woz signing early ones. In fact, I tend to doubt it is true, as to the best of my knowledge, Woz had nothing to do with the 128k. (There are IIgs machines with Woz's signature) ALL early macs have the development team's signatures inside the case. Jobs is among those, but I do not believe Woz's is there (I'm not 100% sure). I regularly see people trying to play up the signatures inside the case as some rare thing that is worth money. In fact, what might be worth money, is a case that truely had NO signatures inside it, because those don't appear to exist (not counting those that the mold did a poor job of reproducing the sigs, I have one like that, the sigs are very hard to see, but they are still there). And going back to the ebay auction, it strikes me as REALLY REALLY high to pay $411 pounds for a 128k with no documentation or softare, cracks in the floppy case, a broken/sticky keyboard, and not fully tested. -chris From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 22 15:55:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Them blasted hard drives... Message-ID: Hi all, I've just had a massive drive failure on my mailserver, which has nailed my copies of this morning's classiccmp messages. I'v got Ed Sharpe's message "Re: seriously big iron on ebay BED!" (opens: "yea the short ceilings will get ya... forgot about that...") from 07:18 GMT, then nothing until Jay West's "Re:Wanted: ET phone home :)" (opening: "Well, actually, for the ET-3400 my") from 13:35 GMT. Can some kind soul please send me copies of the message(s) I'm missing or tell me how to get the listserver to resend them? Linux mailbox format would be best (more than one message per file, like the /var/mail/... files), but my copy of Messenger can also import one-message-per-file messages as long as full headers are included in the file. If you don't feel like faffing around with dates and times, a full copy of today's messages would be equally useful to me. Sorry for clogging up everyone's bandwidth with this. Needless to say, I'm a bit miffed that the drive packed up - it's not far out of warranty. SMARTcheck insists the drive is fine, the BIOS can see it, but the machine can't read anything off of it. Score: Hard drive 1, Philpem -1397 Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI Drive not ready: (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ix with a hammer? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 22 16:50:59 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:16 2005 Subject: Them blasted hard drives... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Someone's sent me the messages. I've also managed to get another 20 minutes of life out of the drive by deep-freezing it for three hours. That and running it upside down. I think I'll strip it for parts tomorrow - it's well out of warranty and there are two neodymium magnets inside it that I want :) Thanks, -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Me, indecisive? I don't think I am, do you? From jim at smithy.com Mon Mar 22 16:52:27 2004 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Them blasted hard drives... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33077.216.90.98.232.1079995947.squirrel@152.160.5.70> > Someone's sent me the messages. I've also managed to get another 20 > minutes of life out of the drive by deep-freezing it for three hours. > That and running it upside down. > I think I'll strip it for parts tomorrow - it's well out of warranty and > there are two neodymium magnets inside it that I want :) > I did that with the hard drive in the voice mail PC once. The software was an obsolete DOS program, and the phone guys couldn't reinstall it. So, I put the hard drive outside for a while (it was 30F outside), and it lasted just long enough to copy the files from it. Jim From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 22 17:21:10 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <16475.23907.962211.567397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000501c41064$5c56e870$5b01a8c0@athlon> > That sounds right. I never had a VAX SRM but I had an Alpha > SRM for a while, and it was a "limited distribution numbered > copies" type of > document. The sort of thing that you have to send back to the > originator for disposal and logging when you no longer need it. The Alpha SRM I was lent for a while was numbered somewhere between 900 and 1100 (I forget the exact number). This was probably past the initial highly secretive stage (I guess this was about 1996 or so) which probably accounted for the high number, but I was still surprised that they were bothering to keep tabs on such stuff by then. The only other restricted distribution document I received was something pretty obscure (obscure enough that I don't remember exactly what it was). It was in electronic format, but as it would only print on an LN03 (or compatible later printer) because it was (IIRC) entiurely in sixel format, I guess that was considered secure enough! > From what I remember, the difference between the Alpha SRM and the > stuff that was published externally was quite large, much > larger than what you describe for VAX. But after 12 years I > no longer remember what it was (and in any case I'd still > have to obey confidentiality about it anyway). In terms of volume, I don't think there's much in it. The published AARM is a hefty tome; it's physically smaller than the restricted SRM but the AARM is in a smaller font and on thinner paper. I also think that the SRM I saw was printer single sided, but I'm no longer really sure of that. The main difference I recall was that the Alpha SRM was full of "EV6 *may* do this" bits which were absent in the contemporaneous AARM. AFAICR those bits which actually happened (and were relevant) appeared in later versions of the AARM. Overall I found the level of "openness" in the Alpha docs much higher than in VAX. Mostly I guess this was due to the fact that publishing electronic docs was so much easier than had been the case when VAX and PDP machines had their heyday. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 22 17:24:28 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <200403200250.VAA04305@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <000601c41064$d2747cc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If such a thing can be pried loose, I'd love a copy. I > intend to build a VAX emulator at some point and I'd feel > more confident if I had exhaustive exerciser tests for it. > (I have a rudimentary version working now, but I have to just > trust that I haven't made some subtle mistake somewhere....) I never had access to AXE, but as I understand it, it would generate semi-random sequences of instructions and then execute them. Then it would compare the actual results with known good results. I don't know the details of how it would determine "known good results" given that the sequence was semi-random. So you would kick it off and if the machine under test did not fall over in a heap after a few weeks or months of running, then it was probably good enough. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 22 17:39:55 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Seriously big iron on Ebay In-Reply-To: <000701c40f41$a7757480$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: > IBM ES/9000 with peripherals: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3085144986&category=1479 It is just a 9221 (the wimpy ES/9000). Nice, but not that big. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 22 17:39:36 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <000601c41064$d2747cc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <405F7938.6090201@jetnet.ab.ca> Antonio Carlini wrote: > I never had access to AXE, but as I understand it, it would > generate semi-random sequences of instructions and then > execute them. Then it would compare the actual results > with known good results. I don't know the details of how > it would determine "known good results" given that the sequence > was semi-random. > > So you would kick it off and if the machine under test did not > fall over in a heap after a few weeks or months of running, > then it was probably good enough. But it still might never catch something like the Pentium divide bug. Anyhow are not most problems with hardware and software now dynamic in nature? My latest game freezes when I click on blah blah blah after switching video modes during the internet software driver download. > Antonio > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 22 17:45:08 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: ETA-3400 Message-ID: <003b01c41067$b7c874a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Deal made :) I've located an ETA-3400 circuit board and manual, minus chassis & transformer. WooHoo! Shouldn't be hard to add a chassis & transformer. Modern replica to be sure, but it'll work for what I need. Thanks to all who responded! Jay From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Mar 22 17:46:53 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: LF Heathkit H8 original software Message-ID: <20040322234653.8A0CA1FCBA1@outbox.allstream.net> Hi, I've recently acquired a Heathkit H8, however I did not receive the original software. I do have documentation for the following packages, which all appear to be original Heathkit distributions on cassette tape: BUG-8 Console Debugger TED-8 Text Editor HASL-8 Assembly Language package Benton Harbor BASIC / Extended Benton Harbor BASIC I'm looking for copies of the software. I'd love to obtain original Heathkit tapes, however I would be happy just to obtain the binaries or even audio recordings of the tapes. If anyone can help, please contact me - thanks in advance. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 22 17:53:34 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Them blasted hard drives... In-Reply-To: <33077.216.90.98.232.1079995947.squirrel@152.160.5.70> References: <33077.216.90.98.232.1079995947.squirrel@152.160.5.70> Message-ID: <8e0be6934c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <33077.216.90.98.232.1079995947.squirrel@152.160.5.70> "Jim Donoghue" wrote: > I did that with the hard drive in the voice mail PC once. The software was > an obsolete DOS program, and the phone guys couldn't reinstall it. So, I > put the hard drive outside for a while (it was 30F outside), and it lasted > just long enough to copy the files from it. I hope you backed up the software after you'd finished copying it off the stuffed up drive :) Anyway, the drive I've got here is about five years old - I got it in September 1999, so it doesn't exactly owe me anything. Now I just need to install a few security patches onto the router, then open up a few ports on the firewall. Fun! Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hello, I am part number ???????????????? From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 22 18:12:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: <000601c41053$960d4ac0$6402a8c0@ralph> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney > Sent: 22 March 2004 21:21 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Bloody newbies > > I guess I haven't figured out the intricacies of Ebay yet. > Why are there 8 > consecutive bids from the same person?Plus other consecutive > bids from this same bidder? Because someone put a total bid on and was consistently the highest bidder while said n00b put the price up and up by continually bidding. Nothing wrong with that - I've done it meself, though in my case I have reasonable (for my thinking) ceilings, and even $150 is too much for an original Mac, I think, particularly one that hasn't been fully tested and has sticky keys! > Do you think people misconstrued the model number as the > serial number? The > seller didn't mention that some of these early ones were > signed by Jobs and Woz. Or is that myth? It's not a myth, well, maybe the Woz link. All compact Macs up to I think the SE and maybe the Classic bore the signatures of the development team on the inside of the casing...pity some people play up on that and try to pass it off as WOW*RARE*L@@K! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 22 18:47:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794565538&category=124 > 7&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3ABIN&rd=1 Not so fast. These are actually getting more difficult to find, and are getting more historically significant. Remember, this computer is 20 years old now. If it was 4 years ago I'd say this price was way out of line. Now I would just say it's a bit out of line. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 22 18:50:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: <000601c41053$960d4ac0$6402a8c0@ralph> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I guess I haven't figured out the intricacies of Ebay yet. Why are there 8 > consecutive bids from the same person?Plus other consecutive bids from this > same bidder? Those are proxy bids (the system automatically entering bids up to the high bidder's hidden maximum as others submit counter bids). > Do you think people misconstrued the model number as the serial number? The > seller didn't mention that some of these early ones were signed by Jobs and > Woz. Or is that myth? Huh? The inside of the case has the signatures of the entire design team (including those of Jobs and Wozniak) which is part of the mold. I've never heard anywhere that early models were signed in any other way. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 22 18:52:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040322163031.00ae5030@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > I've already told the wife what I want for my birthday -- and so we have a > couple of months to line up babysitters, etc. etc. > > From the sounds of it, barring the earth exploding before then, I'm gonna > be there! Hooray! > Having never been to one before, is there any lodging discounts / > reservations at a particular hotel, or is it "Fend for oneself?" I'll be working on getting these sorts of things figured out in another few weeks. I'll probably try to arrange a group discount at a local hotel. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Mar 22 18:55:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: VAX Architecture (was KA620) In-Reply-To: <003301c41047$f75287c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003301c41047$f75287c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200403230056.TAA23172@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > [...SIDs...], MIPs was 128 and above (but presumably below 127). 128 and above, but below 127? Come again? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 22 18:37:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Mar 22, 4 10:58:47 am Message-ID: > > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Tapley writes: > > Mark> Erik Klein wrote: > >> ...The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power > >> switch. The switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in gray > >> plastic with a 1 and a 0 printed on it. Again, I can replace it > >> but I'd like a "correct" part if anyone has a source, part number > >> or spare. > > Mark> This is a reasonably common failure - mine has the same problem > Mark> (replaced by two SPST's side-by-side which I take pains to > Mark> throw simultaneously) and I've read of at least one other Has anybody tried taking the original switch apart and cleaning the contacts (if that's the failure mode)? I'vc repaired switches in other equipment that way. > Mark> (years ago, on this list). When/if they are found, please post > Mark> on the list - I'll definitely want one too. > > In the US, just one SPST should suffice, if it's in the live wire. > You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find > unpolarized outlets. However, a DPST (breaks both live and neutral) is safer IMHO. In the UK we have poilarised mains sockets, but I still always fit double-pole switches in stuff I've designed myself, just in case the socket is wired backwards, or whatever. I am also looking for a rocker switch, but a much smaller one. It's the type used in the HP98x0 calculators (and also the 9885 disk drive, 9877 tape drive, 9866 printer, and doubtless many other devices). It's DPDT and has 2 miunting lugs for 4-40 screws. I can provide dimensions if anyone thinks they know a supplier. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 22 18:40:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Mar 22, 4 12:11:43 pm Message-ID: > > I don't think they are in the same circuit. I'll have to go back home > tonight and dig out my Rainbow to check (unless someone beats me to > it). I can't be bothered to dig out the schemaitcs (I will do if necessary), but I am darn sure the DPST switch in my 'Bows just breaks the live and neutral wires of the mains supply to the PSU. It's a bit strange due to the fact that the mains switch is on the fan bracket, while the mains connectors are part of the PSU (so you have to trace wires through various connectors), but electrically it does the obvious thing. -tony From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 22 18:55:17 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Heathkit ETA-3400 References: <00bd01c40c86$8205ddb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><002b01c40d30$7108a600$6401a8c0@knology.net><006201c41012$8875e520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003801c4102e$26bee040$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <00a101c41071$82b008a0$07db3fd0@DOMAIN> From: Paul Pennington > "Jay West" said: > > > Well, actually, for the ET-3400 my interest isn't so much "collecting" as > it > > is just plain technical interest. I would be happy with a replica of the > > ETA-3400 to hook up to my ET3400. Is it a complex box to duplicate? It's pretty much a 6820 PIA, two 2k ROMS (one for Tiny Basic, one for Fantom II (terminal driven monitor,)) 2x to 8x 2114 RAMS, and a programmed 32x8 ttl ROM (74S188) to handle the address decoding for *all* those chips. The rest of it is the 5,+12. -12 power supply and the glue between the PIA and the RS232/TTY & cassette i/o. There's also a modification back to the et-3400 needed changing the system clock rate and a few line drivers. The manauls have the rom code for the Fantom II monitor and even the 74188 but not the Heath/Pittman Tiny Basic. > What do you want to do with it? I don't have one, but I understand an > ETA-3400 adds a serial port, more memory, Tiny BASIC, and a cassette > interface. > > The serial port is easily implemented with a 6850 and a one-chip RS-232 > driver. Adding on more memory should also be one chip (64K x 8 static RAM?) > and maybe an EPROM to replace the 1K monitor ROM. Those are the only things > I am really interested in doing. Hopefully I can make it load and store > programs down the serial port to a PC. > > As for the cassette port, not interested in going down that road again! I'll have to find that Kilobaud article where the dude wires up a floppy interface to the et-3400... > Has the manual for the ETA-3400 been scanned and put on a web site > anywhere? > ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Mar 22 19:18:03 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> However, a DPST (breaks both live and neutral) is safer IMHO NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This can potentially leave a circuit floating, wich can be much more dangerous. Try to HI_POT test a device in this configuration, and you may very well let the "magic-smoke" out. If you are switching on the raw power side, the neutral should always remain connected. In fact this is code for many (most/all) CE/UL approval stamps! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell >>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:38 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: Electronic components sources >>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Tapley writes: >>> > >>> > Mark> Erik Klein wrote: >>> > >> ...The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a >>> busted power >> >>> > switch. The switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in >>> gray >> >>> > plastic with a 1 and a 0 printed on it. Again, I can >>> replace it >> >>> > but I'd like a "correct" part if anyone has a source, >>> part number >> >>> > or spare. >>> > >>> > Mark> This is a reasonably common failure - mine has the >>> same problem >>> > Mark> (replaced by two SPST's side-by-side which I take pains to >>> > Mark> throw simultaneously) and I've read of at least one other >>> >>> Has anybody tried taking the original switch apart and >>> cleaning the contacts (if that's the failure mode)? I'vc >>> repaired switches in other equipment that way. >>> >>> > Mark> (years ago, on this list). When/if they are found, >>> please post >>> > Mark> on the list - I'll definitely want one too. >>> > >>> > In the US, just one SPST should suffice, if it's in the live wire. >>> > You need DPST switches in much of Europe because there you find >>> > unpolarized outlets. >>> >>> However, a DPST (breaks both live and neutral) is safer >>> IMHO. In the UK we have poilarised mains sockets, but I >>> still always fit double-pole switches in stuff I've >>> designed myself, just in case the socket is wired >>> backwards, or whatever. >>> >>> I am also looking for a rocker switch, but a much smaller >>> one. It's the type used in the HP98x0 calculators (and also >>> the 9885 disk drive, 9877 tape drive, 9866 printer, and >>> doubtless many other devices). It's DPDT and has 2 miunting >>> lugs for 4-40 screws. I can provide dimensions if anyone >>> thinks they know a supplier. >>> >>> -tony From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 22 19:16:23 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies References: Message-ID: <405F8FE7.6EDC3EE@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794565538&category=124 > > 7&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3ABIN&rd=1 > > Not so fast. These are actually getting more difficult to find, and are > getting more historically significant. Remember, this computer is 20 > years old now. > > If it was 4 years ago I'd say this price was way out of line. Now I would > just say it's a bit out of line. Using my "down three" rule of thumb for prices, the unit should have gone for about 250 (British) pounds. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Mar 22 19:20:10 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: <16479.3383.287563.812901@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040323012010.GA8774@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 12:37:50AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > Has anybody tried taking the original switch apart and cleaning the > contacts (if that's the failure mode)? I'vc repaired switches in other > equipment that way. My experience with DEC grey switches of the era is that a small piece of plastic breaks off inside and the internal mobile conductor isn't held firmly in the place it needs to be. I don't know what's wrong with _this_ switch, but the failure mode I have seen myself is mechanical, not oxidation. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Mar-2004 01:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.7 F (-62.6 C) Windchill -96 F (-71.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5 kts Grid 082 Barometer 684.5 mb (10456. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 22 19:38:10 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: 1/2 tapes (someone asked) Message-ID: <2e3a01c41077$800ee930$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> A while back someone asked about getting blank 1/2 tapes. Here's a great contact.... Magnetic Products & Services, Inc. Kristine Hunter khunter@mpsinc.org www.mpsinc.org I was quite happy with my purchase from them of blank 1/2 tape media. Jay From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Mar 22 20:30:10 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403222130.10383.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 22 March 2004 20:18, David V. Corbin wrote: > >>> However, a DPST (breaks both live and neutral) is safer IMHO > > NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > This can potentially leave a circuit floating, wich can be much more > dangerous. Try to HI_POT test a device in this configuration, and you > may very well let the "magic-smoke" out. If you are switching on the > raw power side, the neutral should always remain connected. In fact > this is code for many (most/all) CE/UL approval stamps! So, how are you supposed to wire a switch on equipment meant to be used on hot/neutral (120V) and hot/hot (208/240V) power inputs, like autoswitching computer power supplies? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 22 20:33:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > This can potentially leave a circuit floating, wich can be much more > dangerous. Try to HI_POT test a device in this configuration, and you may > very well let the "magic-smoke" out. If you are switching on the raw power > side, the neutral should always remain connected. In fact this is code for > many (most/all) CE/UL approval stamps! Certainly something could be designed so a hot and neutral break ("disconnect") is quite safe, but you are right, most applications are safer just breaking the hot. Plus, breaking both really is just a waste of money for a more complex switch. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 22 20:37:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <200403222130.10383.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: > So, how are you supposed to wire a switch on equipment meant to be used > on hot/neutral (120V) and hot/hot (208/240V) power inputs, like > autoswitching computer power supplies? Well, here you pretty much have to break both, even if one is neutral sometimes. Much better than having a "half hot" circuit. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ken at seefried.com Mon Mar 22 21:26:56 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Looking for smallish VME backplanes? Message-ID: <20040323032657.6780.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I'm looking to pick up some smallish (2-3 slots, ideally) VME backplanes. Double bonus of they are VME64. Anyone have such a thing in their spare parts bin? Contact me off list. Ken From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Mar 22 21:42:25 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403222242.25799.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 22 March 2004 21:37, William Donzelli wrote: > > So, how are you supposed to wire a switch on equipment meant to be > > used on hot/neutral (120V) and hot/hot (208/240V) power inputs, > > like autoswitching computer power supplies? > > Well, here you pretty much have to break both, even if one is neutral > sometimes. Much better than having a "half hot" circuit. Bingo! Yeah, I was asking a bit of a loaded question. : ) I'd think that care for disconnecting all possible 'hots' coming into the chassis is more important on most things... excepting perhaps cheap things like lamps or things designed to only work with a hot/neutral setup, like a 120V "surge protector." Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Mar 22 21:50:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <200403222242.25799.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200403222242.25799.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200403230357.WAA23917@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Well, here you pretty much have to break both, even if one is >> neutral sometimes. Much better than having a "half hot" circuit. > I'd think that care for disconnecting all possible 'hots' coming into > the chassis is more important on most things... excepting perhaps > cheap things like lamps It can be important there too. I've been bitten a few times by shocks from devices with two-wire cords when some physical fault has let one wire leak to a metal chassis and the plug happens to have been plugged in the wrong way around, so that the wire the device is designed to treat as neutral is actually the hot, and the power switch is in the lead that's actually neutral. Even since the advent of the polarized two-prong plug this is a real risk; "cheap things like lamps" are common targets for plug (and sometimes entire cord) replacement - and the sort of screw-terminal mains plug sold in small quantity to weekend bricoleurs is almost never polarized, and most of the amateurs doing such replacement I wouldn't trust to get it right if it were. (Heck, I wouldn't trust _me_ to get it right from memory - I can never remember whether the wide blade is hot or neutral; I have to test an outlet.) > or things designed to only work with a hot/neutral setup, like a 120V > "surge protector." Things like that usually use grounded plugs anyway. At least here in North America (which is where you'd find 120V mains devices anyway). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 03:48:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 23 March 2004 00:47 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Bloody newbies > > Not so fast. These are actually getting more difficult to > find, and are getting more historically significant. > Remember, this computer is 20 years old now. > > If it was 4 years ago I'd say this price was way out of line. > Now I would just say it's a bit out of line. In that case I'll consider meself lucky that I'm getting a Fat Mac soon for free, gratis and nothing :) Cheers w From kevan at heydon.org Mon Mar 22 15:47:44 2004 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) Message-ID: <20040322213828.K50952-100000@goliath.heydon.org> Not old but could be used to put old stuff into... I have a full height 19" Rack that needs a new home. It is a Dataracks FP600 series with a smoked glass door, and is in great condition. Dimensions are 600x800x2200mm (WxDxH) which looks to be the 45U version. It is currently 'flat packed' but I have all the bits to put it back together again and the assembly instructions flyer. Also comes with two full shelves, two half depth shelves and four 1U cable management plates. Located in Cambridge, free to a good home but needs collection soon. -- Kevan From tony at encore.1mp.net Tue Mar 23 00:56:04 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <001001c40f9a$7878a810$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <200403230655.i2N6tqV06494@echo.uptimesg.com> Gosh I wish I knew about you a couple years ago. I tossed a Rainbow in the trash that was working fine :( > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 3:16 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Electronic components sources > > I'm looking for two items to get a couple of machines back in > operation. > > > > First, I have a Heathkit H-17 drive with a broken fuse holder > (the black plastic tube with the red button on the end) that > I'd like to replace. > I can obviously bypass, solder the fuse in-line or use any > old holder, but I'd like a "correct" replacement. Does > anyone have a source for these? A part number would also help. > > > > The other item I have is a DEC Rainbow with a busted power > switch. The switch a fairly typical wide rocker style in > gray plastic with a 1 and a 0 printed on it. Again, I can > replace it but I'd like a "correct" part if anyone has a > source, part number or spare. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Erik Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com > > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > > The Vintage Computer Forum > From tony at encore.1mp.net Tue Mar 23 00:56:04 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: HP 9845B In-Reply-To: <000901c3f019$2d06b9d0$e685fea9@arbeitstier> Message-ID: <200403230655.i2N6toV06482@echo.uptimesg.com> So where are you and did you ever toss it? > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Kotter > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:02 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP 9845B > > Hi, > > my company is about to through away this computer. > Do you need it ? > From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Mar 23 06:56:44 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040322163031.00ae5030@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040323075449.02545c28@mail.n.ml.org> I would be there, but a close friend has asked me to be in his wedding =/ Decisions, decisions... I guess I have to go to the wedding (sig. other is poking my side at this point). Maybe next time. Would have been cool to see the gang and see all the different cool gear everyone has... -John Boffemmyer IV At 07:52 PM 3/22/2004, you wrote: >On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > I've already told the wife what I want for my birthday -- and so we have a > > couple of months to line up babysitters, etc. etc. > > > > From the sounds of it, barring the earth exploding before then, I'm gonna > > be there! > >Hooray! > > > Having never been to one before, is there any lodging discounts / > > reservations at a particular hotel, or is it "Fend for oneself?" > >I'll be working on getting these sorts of things figured out in another >few weeks. I'll probably try to arrange a group discount at a local >hotel. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 23 08:08:53 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <200403200250.VAA04305@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <000601c41064$d2747cc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <16480.17653.593000.250250@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Antonio" == Antonio Carlini writes: Antonio> I never had access to AXE, but as I understand it, it would Antonio> generate semi-random sequences of instructions and then Antonio> execute them. Then it would compare the actual results with Antonio> known good results. I don't know the details of how it would Antonio> determine "known good results" given that the sequence was Antonio> semi-random. I assume the answer is "by running the random instructions in a simulation of what the SRM says". Incidentally, it turns out this is not a new technique. CDC had one (or two?) random instruction generator diagnostics for the 6600 supercomputer, back in the mid to late 1960s. Those were actually used in the field, which makes sense given that those machines had CPUs built out of hundreds of small (discrete transistor) modules all wired together by twisted pair wire. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 23 08:18:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <000601c41064$d2747cc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <405F7938.6090201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16480.18212.546000.653902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: ben> Antonio Carlini wrote: >> I never had access to AXE, but as I understand it, it would >> generate semi-random sequences of instructions and then execute >> them. Then it would compare the actual results with known good >> results. I don't know the details of how it would determine "known >> good results" given that the sequence was semi-random. >> >> So you would kick it off and if the machine under test did not >> fall over in a heap after a few weeks or months of running, then >> it was probably good enough. ben> But it still might never catch something like the Pentium divide ben> bug. Anyhow are not most problems with hardware and software ben> now dynamic in nature? My latest game freezes when I click on ben> blah blah blah after switching video modes during the internet ben> software driver download. Sure, but those are software bugs, not processor instruction implementation bugs. Meanwhile, something like AXE is your best bet to catch unexpected instruction interactions. It was used because it provides FAR better coverage than conventional CPU diagnostics. Not alone, of course -- you still want to pass regular diagnostics, and run all the applications you can think of. And the microcode still has to be carefully designed and coded. But AXE adds yet another level of assurance to the implementation. paul From cb at mythtech.net Tue Mar 23 08:49:24 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: >In that case I'll consider meself lucky that I'm getting a Fat Mac soon for >free, gratis and nothing :) Damn, I'm still after one of those! -chris From scott_list at mischko.com Mon Mar 22 14:03:55 2004 From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: First Osborne Group diskettes wanted Message-ID: <200403221203.55815.scott_list@mischko.com> Hi! I have not been able to find some of the FOG diskettes's available online for CP/M systems. I'm most interested in #35. I have an Osborne Vixen and need a utility on there if I can get it! I'm also interested in making FOG diskettes 1-100 available online but I don't have them. If anyone has them and is willing to let someone else do the work of getting them online, please let me know! Scott From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 23 09:02:52 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Has anybody tried taking the original switch apart and cleaning the >contacts (if that's the failure mode)? I'vc repaired switches in other >equipment that way. Yes. That wasn't it. There was a little plastic part broken inside that looked un-glue-able. It still clicked, but no electrical contact was made any more. YMMV, of course, but that's what happened to mine. Thanks for the correction about what the switch actually does. The wires looked like they went different places, so I just assumed they were different circuits, No reason for that, of course. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 23 09:32:52 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) In-Reply-To: <20040322213828.K50952-100000@goliath.heydon.org> References: <20040322213828.K50952-100000@goliath.heydon.org> Message-ID: <200403231532.52260.lists@microvax.org> On Monday 22 March 2004 21:47, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Not old but could be used to put old stuff into... > > I have a full height 19" Rack that needs a new home. > > It is a Dataracks FP600 series with a smoked glass door, and is in > great condition. > > Dimensions are 600x800x2200mm (WxDxH) which looks to be the 45U > version. > > It is currently 'flat packed' but I have all the bits to put it back > together again and the assembly instructions flyer. > > Also comes with two full shelves, two half depth shelves and four 1U > cable management plates. > > Located in Cambridge, free to a good home but needs collection soon. > > -- > Kevan Why can't you live further north? :) alex/melt From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Mar 23 09:57:54 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: LF H8 software In-Reply-To: <200403231532.i2NFWQJ5031846@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000101c410ef$9afce670$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Dave, I've got all these tapes, but I'm not sure how well they still work. I'm planning to convert them to .wav files and save them to CD Real Soon Now. Stay in touch, Jack > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:46:53 -0500 (EST) > From: Dave Dunfield > Subject: LF Heathkit H8 original software > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <20040322234653.8A0CA1FCBA1@outbox.allstream.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, I've recently acquired a Heathkit H8, however I did not > receive the original software. I do have documentation for > the following packages, which all appear to be original > Heathkit distributions on cassette tape: > > BUG-8 Console Debugger > TED-8 Text Editor > HASL-8 Assembly Language package > Benton Harbor BASIC / Extended Benton Harbor BASIC > > I'm looking for copies of the software. I'd love to obtain > original Heathkit tapes, however I would be happy just to > obtain the binaries or even audio recordings of the tapes. > > If anyone can help, please contact me - thanks in advance. > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: > www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Mar 23 10:18:44 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <2e3a01c41077$800ee930$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <2e3a01c41077$800ee930$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1080058724.8892.7.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. http://www.apple2clones.com The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is better than no image at all. Enjoy. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 11:13:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > In that case I'll consider meself lucky that I'm getting a Fat Mac soon for > free, gratis and nothing :) Gather up all the original Macs you can. When they hit 30, I'm willing to wager they'll be worth a LOT. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 11:17:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040323075449.02545c28@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > I would be there, but a close friend has asked me to be in his wedding =/ > Decisions, decisions... I guess I have to go to the wedding (sig. other is > poking my side at this point). Maybe next time. Would have been cool to see > the gang and see all the different cool gear everyone has... Tell him if he wants to have a geek honeymoon I'll set them up with a suite at the local hotel, then the whole wedding party can attend. FOr that matter, tell them they can get married AT the VCF itself. If I can get ordained as a minister in the First Online Church of Bob in time then I'll even preside over it ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Mar 23 11:37:52 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) References: <20040322213828.K50952-100000@goliath.heydon.org> <200403231532.52260.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <001501c410fd$91e104f0$2201a8c0@finans> From: "meltie" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "Kevan Heydon" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: Re: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) > On Monday 22 March 2004 21:47, Kevan Heydon wrote: > > Not old but could be used to put old stuff into... > > > > I have a full height 19" Rack that needs a new home. > > Located in Cambridge, free to a good home but needs collection soon. > > > > -- > > Kevan > > Why can't you live further north? :) > > alex/melt > Why cant you live on the other side of the North Sea ? Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 16-03-2004 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 11:34:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor Message-ID: Hi folks, I think I posted this on here first but I'm not sure :) Anyway, (slight OT drift here) my '97 vintage 21" PCXAV monitor (the one with the paper-white case & trinitron screen) has decided to start flickering and dimming itself. Lee's already given me a couple of pointers but I thought I'd ask here too in case he's not about. I've got the PSU here and there's a couple of things on there that make me worried: http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/resistors.jpg http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/burnt.jpg http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/solder.jpg http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/solderside.jpg The middle 2 are the front and back of the same components on the board. Should I be worried that so much solder is escaping/has escaped from the joints? Also the soldering in 'solder.jpg' looks decidedly iffy. I haven't checked the resistors yet to see if they've failed.....is it normal for them to get so hot they burn the board? Probably more pix to come when I get the logic board out :oD cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From paulpenn at knology.net Tue Mar 23 11:55:06 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: ETA-3400 References: <003b01c41067$b7c874a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <012701c410ff$fa1e2140$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Jay West" said: > Deal made :) > > I've located an ETA-3400 circuit board and manual, minus chassis & > transformer. WooHoo! Shouldn't be hard to add a chassis & transformer. > Modern replica to be sure, but it'll work for what I need. That should be possible. Unlike most Heathkits, the ETA-3400 appears to use a standard, generic case. You might even be able to find the exact one. I believe there is a company still selling educational items from the Heathkit line. Just maybe they would still have the transformer. Tell us about your project. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From paulpenn at knology.net Tue Mar 23 11:55:06 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: ETA-3400 References: <003b01c41067$b7c874a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <012701c410ff$fa1e2140$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Jay West" said: > Deal made :) > > I've located an ETA-3400 circuit board and manual, minus chassis & > transformer. WooHoo! Shouldn't be hard to add a chassis & transformer. > Modern replica to be sure, but it'll work for what I need. That should be possible. Unlike most Heathkits, the ETA-3400 appears to use a standard, generic case. You might even be able to find the exact one. I believe there is a company still selling educational items from the Heathkit line. Just maybe they would still have the transformer. Tell us about your project. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From FidoNetDan at aol.com Tue Mar 23 12:25:23 2004 From: FidoNetDan at aol.com (FidoNetDan@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: FOG Disks Message-ID: <128.3d78220e.2d91db13@aol.com> Scott, I am a longtime member of MWFOG - FOG#12 - Though our name has changed, now, to the Central Iowa Computer User Group, we have an almost complete set of the FOG CP/M disks. It might take me a week or two, or longer to get through these but I'll try to get them copied, zipped, and emailed to you. I'll try to get you #35 first, but will try to get you all of them over time. Or perhaps, I could get them burned on a CD???? Not sure about this. I'm not near the expert, that most on the list are! BTW, I have so many involvements you might have to reach out with a brick bat to keep me on top of this! Please feel free to use, gently. BTW, we have a computer recycling project in our computer user group. ROCK - Recycling Old Computers Kindly. We have quite a number of old things that we have scrapped and sent to recycling hell. Maybe ought to let folk in here have crack at some of them.... We have things like ESDI drives, a number of HP 9000's of a couple varieties, lots of old MFM drives, as well as smaller IDE drives. CGA monitors, mono monitors, video cards, lots of cables, etc, etc, etc, Since we do have to pay rent for our recycling project we would need a small donation plus shipping costs for most of these items. Some of the newer items like the HP's, or the scarce items llike the CGA monitors we might want a bit more. If anyone is interested in other stuff, let me know, we have number of companies donating to us and might stumble across a bunch of older items. No we do not major in big iron. To find out more about CIACUG and the ROCK project visit www.ciacug.org. Dan FidoNetDan@aol.com or dbuda@ankeny.k12.ia.us From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 12:30:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 23 March 2004 17:14 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Bloody newbies > > Gather up all the original Macs you can. When they hit 30, > I'm willing to wager they'll be worth a LOT. Hmm, someone just offered me a Mac Plus with 20mb HD, docs and software.....pity I've got no room for it :-/ Cheers w From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 23 12:52:32 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:17 2005 Subject: VAX Architecture (was KA620) In-Reply-To: <200403230056.TAA23172@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <002d01c41108$0065f930$5b01a8c0@athlon> > 128 and above, but below 127? Come again? It was pointed out to me but I didn't bother to correct myself. I think the "rule" was: VAX < 128 128 <= MIPs < 1024 1024 <= Alpha But I've not found anything to confirm this. I used to have a list of SIDs somewhere but I cannot locate it right now. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 23 12:55:54 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c41108$78868970$5b01a8c0@athlon> >Probably more pix to come when I get the logic board out :oD I had mine partly open late last year/early this year to replace the little fuse. That's what blew in mine after it had been doing a "crack-disappear-reappear-instantly" cycle a few times a day for a week or so. Since swapping the fuse it's been fine. I don't recall mine having any obvious burns anywhere, but it was only open long enough to locate the fuse and then swap it. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 13:09:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <1080058724.8892.7.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Ernest wrote: > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm > hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, > will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. > > BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were > the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is > better than no image at all. What a terrific website! This is a great effort, Ernest. I've added it to the VCF Link Library. A suggestion: in the Photo Gallery views it's hard to tell which title refers to which picture. Maybe a bit more spacing between entries or some demarcation lines? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 23 13:13:53 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > ALL early macs have the development team's signatures inside the case. > Jobs is among those, but I do not believe Woz's is there (I'm not 100% > sure). Yeah, they neglect to point out the signatures are molded into the injection-molded plastic; what do they picture, the development team standing along side the assembly lines, pen in hand, month after month? (My signature, along with many others, is in the Mac SE and/or Mac II case; I worked on the timer manager (!) and the %1 key what pops out the floppy. Quite an accomplishment, eh? :-) (OS-ROM group) I worked for Apple for 9 months; I hated it there, sorry to say. I'm not cut out for large businesses.) (One of those two machines had enough extra ROM space there's a group photo in there, I'm sure my head gets 4 - 6 pixels in the back row.) From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 13:15:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: <002e01c41108$78868970$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 23 March 2004 18:56 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: More on my flickering DEC monitor > > >Probably more pix to come when I get the logic board out :oD > > I had mine partly open late last year/early this year to > replace the little fuse. That's what blew in mine after it > had been doing a "crack-disappear-reappear-instantly" > cycle a few times a day for a week or so. Since swapping the > fuse it's been fine. > > I don't recall mine having any obvious burns anywhere, but it > was only open long enough to locate the fuse and then swap it. Hmm, no blown fuses here and it'd been behaving badly for a few weeks before I swapped it for a Compaq S910.... I've been over the back of the logic board with the soldering iron to remake the joints on the lop/flyback transformer and all the caps etc so I'll do the same for the PSU board and we'll see what happens once it's all back together. Hopefully the magic smoke will stay intact...... (I don't like working on monitors too much!) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Mar 23 13:19:33 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: A Good Reason For Keeping Old Hardware Running Message-ID: <1080069573.23938.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Per the BOFH: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/36469.html -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cb at mythtech.net Tue Mar 23 13:27:18 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website Message-ID: > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm > hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, > will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. > > BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were > the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is > better than no image at all. I didn't know there was a IIgs upgrade for the II series. Is that an officially sanctioned Apple upgrade? How did it come? I'd assume a motherboard, and I guess back panel? Or was the whole lower half of the case included (the back panel is part of the lower half yes?) That might be the coolest Apple thing I have learned recently. I want one! -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Mar 23 13:29:51 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: >and the %1 >key what pops out the floppy. Quite an accomplishment, eh? :-) So you are responsible for what had been one of my most often used key combos. Way cool! This is just turning out to be a great Apple trivia day for me :-) -chris From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 13:29:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > > Computer Festival > > Sent: 23 March 2004 17:14 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: RE: Bloody newbies > > > > Gather up all the original Macs you can. When they hit 30, > > I'm willing to wager they'll be worth a LOT. > > Hmm, someone just offered me a Mac Plus with 20mb HD, docs and > software.....pity I've got no room for it :-/ No MacPlus. Original Macs. Macintosh Plus machines are as common as Commodore 64s. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 13:32:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, chris wrote: > I didn't know there was a IIgs upgrade for the II series. Is that an > officially sanctioned Apple upgrade? How did it come? I'd assume a > motherboard, and I guess back panel? Or was the whole lower half of the > case included (the back panel is part of the lower half yes?) Yes, it was an upgrade you could purchase from Apple to convert your //e into a //gs. It came with a new motherboard and back panel to accomodate the new ports and such. > That might be the coolest Apple thing I have learned recently. I want > one! I finally got one a couple months ago :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Mar 23 13:36:32 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080070591.10061.8.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 11:09, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Ernest wrote: > > > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm > > hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, > > will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. > > > > BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were > > the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is > > better than no image at all. > > What a terrific website! This is a great effort, Ernest. > > I've added it to the VCF Link Library. > > A suggestion: in the Photo Gallery views it's hard to tell which title > refers to which picture. Maybe a bit more spacing between entries or some > demarcation lines? Thanks, Man. I'm kind of proud of it. I agree about the photo gallery. That is part of the image module that I mentioned above. I'll get it worked out eventually. I want it to display the computer image list in the same way that it displays files list -neatly wrapped and clearly separated. The part that I'm stuck on is how to display the list one way, and the individual albums as they are. It's to much for me, since I'm a PHP newb. I'll be building a "links" area soon, and I'll definitely have the VCF marketplace on there. I've already had more than 200 visits in the last couple of hours, including one from Christmas Island! Who would have thought that someone on Christmas Island would visit my old computer site? Where the hell is Christmas Island, anyway? Time to get out the map, I guess. Hehe. E. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 23 13:36:45 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor References: Message-ID: <16480.37325.729000.856377@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I'd say either those components shown in solderside.jpg were replaced at some point, or the person doing the hand-soldering wasn't particularly competent. More likely the latter since the signs are there at every pin that's a hand-soldered part, as far as I can see. It doesn't look like re-melting as you suggested. So it's not that solder has escaped from the joints, it's simply that more was originally put on it than the rules of good workmanship call for. Look at D910 (a bit further to the right on that photo) for an example of good work. (I think that one is the wave solder machine at work...) The brown gunk looks like flux (rosin) that wasn't cleaned off. The solder joints have more solder on them than they should, but not so much that you'd get solder bridges as far as I can see. Excess flux can cause corrosion and leakage current, but I don't see corrosion here and some leakage is not all that likely to be an issue for a power circuit such as this. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to re-heat those joints with a piece of Solder Wick to suck up the excess solder, and then clean off the rosin with a suitable flux remover. (Unfortunately the good ones are all Politically Incorrect. Maybe acetone would work, I haven't tried lately.) The dark spots on the board seem reasonable. Those resistors are high power wirewound units, those get *very* hot in normal use. Raising them -- and high current diodes like D907 -- off the board is a typical trick to get better cooling. The radiated heat tends to discolor the board at some point, that isn't necessarily an issue. Something to look at, though: on the "solder.jpg" picture I wonder about the funny rings on the right solder joint of R923 and R924. That may just be a shadow, or it may be a mechanical problem in that joint. It wouldn't hurt to find joints like that and re-melt them. paul From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 23 13:39:26 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403231939.26793.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 23 March 2004 19:13, Tom Jennings wrote: > > ALL early macs have the development team's signatures inside the case. > > Jobs is among those, but I do not believe Woz's is there (I'm not 100% > > sure). > > Yeah, they neglect to point out the signatures are molded > into the injection-molded plastic; what do they picture, > the development team standing along side the assembly lines, > pen in hand, month after month? > > > (My signature, along with many others, is in the Mac SE and/or > Mac II case; I worked on the timer manager (!) and the %1 > key what pops out the floppy. Quite an accomplishment, eh? :-) > (OS-ROM group) I worked for Apple for 9 months; I hated it there, > sorry to say. I'm not cut out for large businesses.) > > (One of those two machines had enough extra ROM space there's > a group photo in there, I'm sure my head gets 4 - 6 pixels in > the back row.) SE, I think. You've got your work in the machine that I grew up on! (Yes, i'm that young!) alex/melt From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Mar 23 13:41:27 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080070887.10061.13.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 11:27, chris wrote: > > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm > > hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, > > will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. > > > > BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were > > the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is > > better than no image at all. > > I didn't know there was a IIgs upgrade for the II series. Is that an > officially sanctioned Apple upgrade? How did it come? I'd assume a > motherboard, and I guess back panel? Or was the whole lower half of the > case included (the back panel is part of the lower half yes?) > > That might be the coolest Apple thing I have learned recently. I want one! Yes, it was an official Apple upgrade. It was a kit that you could buy, which included the base, MB, and new label. It is a cool system, and it's fairly hard to find them anymore. If you look closely at the upgrade MB, and the regular ROM 03 IIgs mb, you should be able to spot a few subtle differences. E From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 13:58:24 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: <16480.37325.729000.856377@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning > Sent: 23 March 2004 19:37 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: More on my flickering DEC monitor > > I'd say either those components shown in solderside.jpg were > replaced at some point, or the person doing the > hand-soldering wasn't particularly competent. More likely > the latter since the signs are there at every pin that's a > hand-soldered part, as far as I can see. It could be; I rescued the monitor from the dumpster queue after the previous user had complained that 'the colours were all fuzzy'. A quick adjustment of the Purity control sorted that out :) It's possible it's been repaired in the past too. > Look at D910 (a bit further to the right on that photo) for > an example of good work. (I think that one is the wave > solder machine at work...) 'K > normal use. Raising them -- and high current diodes like > D907 -- off the board is a typical trick to get better > cooling. The radiated heat tends to discolor the board at > some point, that isn't necessarily an issue. Right - that makes sense..... > Something to look at, though: on the "solder.jpg" picture I > wonder about the funny rings on the right solder joint of > R923 and R924. > That may just be a shadow, or it may be a mechanical problem > in that joint. It wouldn't hurt to find joints like that and > re-melt them. It's not shadow, that's what made me ask in the first place....I've now remade all the large joints like that and I'm in the process of putting the whole shebang back together. Ta! If you hear a bang in the next half hour you'll know what it is..... -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 23 14:04:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003901c41112$0cae75a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > This can potentially leave a circuit floating, wich can be > much more > > dangerous. Try to HI_POT test a device in this > configuration, and you > > may very well let the "magic-smoke" out. If you are > switching on the > > raw power side, the neutral should always remain connected. In fact > > this is code for many (most/all) CE/UL approval stamps! > > Certainly something could be designed so a hot and neutral break > ("disconnect") is quite safe, but you are right, most > applications are safer just breaking the hot. Plus, breaking > both really is just a waste of money for a more complex switch. I'm lost as to how a device with a switch that breaks both Live and Neutral can be *more* dangerous that a device with a switch that breaks only Live (or just breaks one line, for those of you who have to work with people who wire things up wrong ... "consumers" is the technical term, I believe). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 23 14:03:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: OT: Heeeelp! Mylex dies! Message-ID: Hiya, Offtopic (1997...) but important... we killed one of the Mylex DAC960's from the web server by flashing it. Does anyone know if, and, if so, how, one can "zap" that to a factory-default image? The stupid thing now basically lcoks the system because it cannot initialize... --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 14:19:43 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Heeeelp! Mylex dies! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 23 March 2004 20:03 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT: Heeeelp! Mylex dies! > > Hiya, > > Offtopic (1997...) but important... we killed one of the > Mylex DAC960's from the web server by flashing it. Does > anyone know if, and, if so, how, one can "zap" that to a > factory-default image? The stupid thing now basically lcoks > the system because it cannot initialize... Not that I ever found, not without the appropriate hardware. Last time I killed a Mylex (well, DEC KZPSA) I stole the ROM chips from another board to get it working after a few hours futile web searching..... Cya w From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 14:33:47 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <000601c41064$d2747cc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <405F7938.6090201@jetnet.ab.ca> <16480.18212.546000.653902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <40609F2B.30201@jetnet.ab.ca> Paul Koning wrote: > Meanwhile, something like AXE is your best bet to catch unexpected > instruction interactions. It was used because it provides FAR better > coverage than conventional CPU diagnostics. Not alone, of course -- > you still want to pass regular diagnostics, and run all the > applications you can think of. And the microcode still has to be > carefully designed and coded. But AXE adds yet another level of > assurance to the implementation. Forget the axe! Build simpler computers that work! > paul I don't still don't trust it! CPU diagnostics needs to be designed into the CPU in the design not added later. But CPU's nowdays are designed for speed not long life. Also what happens when AXE or any other test finds a FAULT. Crash the system or what? ------------------------------------------------- + Windows error 66666 System tests OK! + + Windows error 99999 System does not test OK! + ------------------------------------------------- Ben. From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 23 14:45:21 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <40609F2B.30201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004301c41117$c272a5f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Forget the axe! > Build simpler computers that work! [snip] > I don't still don't trust it! CPU diagnostics needs to be > designed into > the CPU in the design not added later. But CPU's nowdays are designed > for speed not long life. Also what happens when AXE or any other test > finds a FAULT. Crash the system or what? I think you've missed what AXE does. I give you a spec for the chip (in this case DEC STD 032, the VAX Architetcure Manual). You build the chip. I want to know if you've built a chip that meets the spec or just one that "almost" meets the spec. AXE runs in my lab on the chips that you have built. If it fails, you've goofed (or AXE needs fixing, but if yours is the Nth design in line, I know where I'd place my money :-)). If it has not failed after a few weeks, then *maybe* you earned your money over the last few weeks, months or years. So AXE runs in the labs not on customer systems. By the time customers have systems it's far too late to be looking for chip design and/or implementation errors. CPU diags are there to check that the chip was stamped properly at the factory and still works after you spurt coke all over it. That's not AXE's job. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 23 14:45:22 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Witchy > Sent: 23 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: More on my flickering DEC monitor > > Ta! If you hear a bang in the next half hour you'll know what > it is..... Replying to me own message here but IT LIVES! http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/yay.jpg Some of my own artwork there too :oD I'll give it a soak test tomorrow to see how long it lasts before it starts flickering again...... > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online > computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly > gothic shenanigans :o( > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Mar 23 14:47:47 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: uVax2000 formatting question Message-ID: <1080074866.23938.20.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Does anyone know the magic numbers to enter into Test 70 on a uVax-2000 to properly format an RD-54 and an RD-52 that are not recognized as being such due to being formatted by some other (PC) system? -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 23 12:42:33 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: LF H8 software Message-ID: <20040323184233.433F61F732@outbox.allstream.net> >Dave, > >I've got all these tapes, but I'm not sure how well they still work. I'm >planning to convert them to .wav files and save them to CD Real Soon >Now. > >Stay in touch, >Jack Hi Jack, Thanks for the response. I would appreciate it very much if you could contact me when you have the files converted. I've been thinking about what would be the best way to "transport" this code. A CD recorded at 44khz 16-bit should work OK - another option would be to load the tapes into the machine and then dump the binary over the serial port - thats what I want to ultimately do as I want to be able to load the software into a PC based simulator (yet to be written unless someone knows of an existing one). Regards, Dave >> Hi, I've recently acquired a Heathkit H8, however I did not >> receive the original software. I do have documentation for >> the following packages, which all appear to be original >> Heathkit distributions on cassette tape: >> >> BUG-8 Console Debugger >> TED-8 Text Editor >> HASL-8 Assembly Language package >> Benton Harbor BASIC / Extended Benton Harbor BASIC >> >> I'm looking for copies of the software. I'd love to obtain >> original Heathkit tapes, however I would be happy just to >> obtain the binaries or even audio recordings of the tapes. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Mar 23 15:19:30 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies References: Message-ID: <002901c4111c$87c35b20$6402a8c0@ralph> > Hmm, someone just offered me a Mac Plus with 20mb HD, docs and > software.....pity I've got no room for it :-/ I would say that the docs and software, if the docs are things like the original invoice etc. would be pretty good to stash away. Sellam says there are lots of SEs around, which there are but there are very few of anything around, IMHO, with documentation. I have a IIe with 'some' original paperwork and some original boxes. At auto auctions you always get more when the manual is sitting there right on the dashboard. bm From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Mar 23 15:26:31 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website References: <2e3a01c41077$800ee930$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <1080058724.8892.7.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: <003701c4111d$82cccc40$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: New apple II clones website > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm > hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, > will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. > > BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were > the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is > better than no image at all. > > Enjoy. Very nice. Good work. I know it's tough to do but you came up with something that looks good. I see a MPF-II there. I have one, not sure if I have the drive or not. Never knew it was associated with Apple. It kind of goes into a spin everytime I plug it in. Also, the Decider pic looks good. bm From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 23 16:02:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <000601c41064$d2747cc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <405F7938.6090201@jetnet.ab.ca> <16480.18212.546000.653902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <40609F2B.30201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16480.46080.296728.15926@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: ben> Paul Koning wrote: >> Meanwhile, something like AXE is your best bet to catch unexpected >> instruction interactions. It was used because it provides FAR >> better coverage than conventional CPU diagnostics. Not alone, of >> course -- you still want to pass regular diagnostics, and run all >> the applications you can think of. And the microcode still has to >> be carefully designed and coded. But AXE adds yet another level >> of assurance to the implementation. ben> Forget the axe! Build simpler computers that work! I don't think there ever has been a computer simple enough that you could analyze its state space exhaustively. So the answer is a combination of careful design and careful testing. AXE is a tool for the latter. By the way, most computers do work. There have been some spectacular exceptions lately, but those ARE exceptions. ben> I don't still don't trust it! CPU diagnostics needs to be ben> designed into the CPU in the design not added later. But CPU's ben> nowdays are designed for speed not long life. Also what happens ben> when AXE or any other test finds a FAULT. Crash the system or ben> what? AXE (as used at DEC) is an implementation verification tool, used as part of the verification testing of a new implementation of a given processor architecture (VAX or Alpha). It isn't run in the field, so the question isn't meaningful. I'd assume that a failure would stop the system under test and spit out lots of details about CPU state, but I've never been close enough to be sure. None of this has anything to do with speed, long life, etc. -- it's just looking for design errors. CT3 (the CDC 6600 analog) is a field service tool, and it spits out details about what's wrong when it finds something wrong. At that point the tech would have to start swapping modules, check wiring for loose cables, etc. But that's an earlier generation system where you'd expect CPU malfunctions in the field due to wear and tear. paul From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 16:14:07 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <004301c41117$c272a5f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <4060B6AF.70009@jetnet.ab.ca> Antonio Carlini wrote: > I think you've missed what AXE does. > > I give you a spec for the chip (in this case DEC STD 032, the > VAX Architetcure Manual). You build the chip. I did miss that point that it is a pre-production rather than a post-production test. > I want to know if you've built a chip that meets > the spec or just one that "almost" meets the spec. Don't look at me , my CPU's never meet the spec, but then again I am not doing a commerical product. Like who would invest in a NEW LS-TTL computer? I tend to be over 20 ns my clock period or way too many chips but I have fun unlike people in the real world desiging CPU's. > CPU diags are there to check that the chip was stamped properly > at the factory and still works after you spurt coke all over it. Umm what about the cold pizza too? > That's not AXE's job. Thank you for the insight. Ben. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 23 12:42:46 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website Message-ID: <20040323184246.56D0A1F77C@outbox.allstream.net> >My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > >http://www.apple2clones.com I did a package on my Franklin Ace 100 earlier this year, which consists of lots of detailed photos (inside and out) including Franklin labled Monitor and Disk drive, scan of the manual (if you haven't seen the FA100 manual - it's an interesting read), as well as other reference documentation. I also included a Franklin Simulator (which is really just an Apple2 simulator with the Ace100 ROM image) - You are welcome to this material if you want it for your site. Btw, are you aware of any Unitron models in a single-piece case (not separate keyboard) with the numeric pad? I've got one which I'm trying to identify, however my searches have turned up either machines without the numeric pad, or machines with separate keyboard. - Ever seen one like this? Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 23 16:22:36 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: LF H8 software Message-ID: <200403232222.OAA14933@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Dave When you guys get this code on CD, let me know as well. I've been planning on getting my H8 up and running. I've already written code to transfer disk image data from the H89 to a PC and back. It shouldn't take much to adapt it to work for cassette or even just a memory block. I have a H27 that I've not tested yet, being that I've not powered up the H8 yet. On the H89, I just used the line printer port, since it used a straight cable to a PC serial port. The code is bootstrapped from about 50 bytes that are entered from the monitor. Dwight >To: jack.rubin@ameritech.net, cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: "Dave Dunfield" > >>Dave, >> >>I've got all these tapes, but I'm not sure how well they still work. I'm >>planning to convert them to .wav files and save them to CD Real Soon >>Now. >> >>Stay in touch, >>Jack > >Hi Jack, > >Thanks for the response. I would appreciate it very much if you could contact >me when you have the files converted. > >I've been thinking about what would be the best way to "transport" this code. >A CD recorded at 44khz 16-bit should work OK - another option would be to load >the tapes into the machine and then dump the binary over the serial port - thats >what I want to ultimately do as I want to be able to load the software into a >PC based simulator (yet to be written unless someone knows of an existing one). > >Regards, > >Dave > > >>> Hi, I've recently acquired a Heathkit H8, however I did not >>> receive the original software. I do have documentation for >>> the following packages, which all appear to be original >>> Heathkit distributions on cassette tape: >>> >>> BUG-8 Console Debugger >>> TED-8 Text Editor >>> HASL-8 Assembly Language package >>> Benton Harbor BASIC / Extended Benton Harbor BASIC >>> >>> I'm looking for copies of the software. I'd love to obtain >>> original Heathkit tapes, however I would be happy just to >>> obtain the binaries or even audio recordings of the tapes. >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 23 16:34:59 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403232234.AA19841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > Like who would invest in a NEW LS-TTL computer? Someone who is truly dedicated to the cause of computing, who understands that computing technology took the wrong turn about 20 years ago, and who is dedicated to fixing it and setting it back on track. That's why I'm building a new VAX, a real bona fide VAX product just like DEC, NOT an emulator. When the Republic of Mars declares independence and holds its first presidential election, I'll definitely run with a platform of immigration and customs laws that would require migrants from Earth to leave their pee seas behind and allow only Classic Computers to be used in the Republic of Mars. Supplying the entire Republic of Mars with enough VAX processors will be no small task, and the limited stockpiled of old DEC gear will certainly be insufficient. We need new production. We need new real Classic Computers in full production. Emulators are not the answer: what are you going to run your emulator on if non-Classic computers are banned? MS From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 23 16:40:07 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <200403232240.OAA14946@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Antonio Carlini wrote: > >> I think you've missed what AXE does. >> >> I give you a spec for the chip (in this case DEC STD 032, the >> VAX Architetcure Manual). You build the chip. > >I did miss that point that it is a pre-production rather than >a post-production test. > >> I want to know if you've built a chip that meets >> the spec or just one that "almost" meets the spec. > >Don't look at me , my CPU's never meet the spec, >but then again I am not doing a commerical product. Hi We make CPU chips and I can tell you that they are so complex that I doubt that we or anyone else in the world has ever tested one completely enough to say that there isn't still a bug in it someplace. It isn't that we and our customers don't try. We throw everything we can at them. It is just that the number of combination of events is so astronomical that it truly can't be full tested for bugs within the time of the remaining life of the universe. We do test them to see that they act as designed but that doesn't expose bugs. That is a completely different problem. Dwight >Like who would invest in a NEW LS-TTL computer? >I tend to be over 20 ns my clock period or way too >many chips but I have fun unlike people in the real >world desiging CPU's. > > > >> CPU diags are there to check that the chip was stamped properly >> at the factory and still works after you spurt coke all over it. > >Umm what about the cold pizza too? > >> That's not AXE's job. >Thank you for the insight. >Ben. > > > > > From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Mar 23 16:43:50 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <20040323184246.56D0A1F77C@outbox.allstream.net> References: <20040323184246.56D0A1F77C@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <1080081829.10082.21.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 10:42, Dave Dunfield wrote: > >My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > > >http://www.apple2clones.com > > I did a package on my Franklin Ace 100 earlier this year, which consists of > lots of detailed photos (inside and out) including Franklin labled Monitor and > Disk drive, scan of the manual (if you haven't seen the FA100 manual - it's > an interesting read), as well as other reference documentation. I also included > a Franklin Simulator (which is really just an Apple2 simulator with the Ace100 > ROM image) - You are welcome to this material if you want it for your site. Yeah, that would be great! That's exactly the kind of stuff that I would like to add to the site. You can email the stuff to me, or I could download it... or, you could log onto the site and upload it. What ever is easiest for you. Thanks for the offer. > Btw, are you aware of any Unitron models in a single-piece case (not separate > keyboard) with the numeric pad? I've got one which I'm trying to identify, > however my searches have turned up either machines without the numeric pad, > or machines with separate keyboard. - Ever seen one like this? No, I haven't seen or heard of one like that. I've only seen the ones that are on the site, which don't have the numeric pad. Pictures of your Unitron would be great for the site too, if you wouldn't mind. Thanks, again. E. From scott_list at mischko.com Tue Mar 23 16:44:11 2004 From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: FOG Disks In-Reply-To: <128.3d78220e.2d91db13@aol.com> References: <128.3d78220e.2d91db13@aol.com> Message-ID: <200403231444.11105.scott_list@mischko.com> Dan, Which diskette format are these diskettes in? If I can read them, I'll go to the trouble of getting them all online if you'll part with them for a while. Scott On 03/23/2004 10:25 am, FidoNetDan@aol.com wrote: > Scott, I am a longtime member of MWFOG - FOG#12 - Though our name > has changed, now, to the Central Iowa Computer User Group, we have > an almost complete set of the FOG CP/M disks. It might take me a > week or two, or longer to get through these but I'll try to get them > copied, zipped, and emailed to you. I'll try to get you #35 first, > but will try to get you all of them over time. Or perhaps, I could > get them burned on a CD???? Not sure about this. I'm not near the > expert, that most on the list are! > > BTW, I have so many involvements you might have to reach out with a > brick bat to keep me on top of this! Please feel free to use, > gently. > > BTW, we have a computer recycling project in our computer user group. > ROCK - Recycling Old Computers Kindly. We have quite a number of > old things that we have scrapped and sent to recycling hell. Maybe > ought to let folk in here have crack at some of them.... > > We have things like ESDI drives, a number of HP 9000's of a couple > varieties, lots of old MFM drives, as well as smaller IDE drives. > CGA monitors, mono monitors, video cards, lots of cables, etc, etc, > etc, Since we do have to pay rent for our recycling project we > would need a small donation plus shipping costs for most of these > items. Some of the newer items like the HP's, or the scarce items > llike the CGA monitors we might want a bit more. > > If anyone is interested in other stuff, let me know, we have number > of companies donating to us and might stumble across a bunch of older > items. No we do not major in big iron. > > To find out more about CIACUG and the ROCK project visit > www.ciacug.org. > > Dan > FidoNetDan@aol.com or > dbuda@ankeny.k12.ia.us From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 23 16:49:37 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: uVax2000 formatting question In-Reply-To: <1080074866.23938.20.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Does anyone know the magic numbers to enter into Test 70 on a > uVax-2000 to properly format an RD-54 and an RD-52 that are not > recognized as being such due to being formatted by some other (PC) > system? The MSCP media ID's? yes, I do, but not offhand... :( --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Mar 23 16:53:09 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <003701c4111d$82cccc40$6402a8c0@ralph> References: <2e3a01c41077$800ee930$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <1080058724.8892.7.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> <003701c4111d$82cccc40$6402a8c0@ralph> Message-ID: <1080082389.10082.32.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 13:26, Brian Mahoney wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernest" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: New apple II clones website > > > > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. > > > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, but I'm > > hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about PHP programming, > > will be able to help me design a better way to display the images. > > > > BTW, some of the "reference" images are pretty terrible but they were > > the best that I could find so far. I figured that even a lousy image is > > better than no image at all. > > > > Enjoy. > Very nice. Good work. I know it's tough to do but you came up with something > that looks good. > I see a MPF-II there. I have one, not sure if I have the drive or not. Never > knew it was associated with Apple. It kind of goes into a spin everytime I > plug it in. > > Also, the Decider pic looks good. I agree, it is hard to make a site look nice. After working on it for a while, I've gotten used to the color scheme. It's much easier on the eyes than the way I had it set up originally, which was basically all white, with blue text -very garrish. Sellem saw it before. He'll vouch. The MPF-II is surpisingly compatible with the Apple II, at least running DOS 3.3 anyway. I'm going to write up a small article on it, and put it through it's paces, etc. I haven't tested any add-on cards on it yet, and I'm not even sure that it's pin compatible with the Apple II. It probably isn't, since they produced a bunch of add-on carts for it, including a disk controller cart. There are a couple of pretty good ads for it in the advertising section. From charlesb at otcgaming.net Tue Mar 23 16:58:50 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) References: <20040322213828.K50952-100000@goliath.heydon.org> <200403231532.52260.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <000601c4112a$69369560$7dc3033e@thunder> ----- Original Message ----- From: "meltie" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "Kevan Heydon" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: Re: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) > On Monday 22 March 2004 21:47, Kevan Heydon wrote: > > Not old but could be used to put old stuff into... > > > > I have a full height 19" Rack that needs a new home. > Why can't you live further north? :) My thoughts exactly :D From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 23 16:58:58 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: >From: "Witchy" >Subject: Bloody newbies > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794565538&category=124 >7&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3ABIN&rd=1 > >Gaah! Gaah is about right... I have one in better nick, like the day it was made, with software including system/finder 1.0 etc. Bought it 5 years ago in a secondhand/pawn shop in Colchester. Price? UKP 10.00 Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Mar 23 17:00:54 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: uVax2000 formatting question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4060C1A6.6040305@4mcnabb.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > >The MSCP media ID's? yes, I do, but not offhand... :( > > > Actually, I've got the media ID's. I need all the other numbers. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 23 17:02:30 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <003901c41112$0cae75a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > I'm lost as to how a device with a switch that breaks both > Live and Neutral can be *more* dangerous that a device with > a switch that breaks only Live (or just breaks one line, > for those of you who have to work with people who wire > things up wrong ... "consumers" is the technical term, > I believe). If you break both, the device could float. Floating parts are generally not good in the electrical world, as their behavior is uncertain. It is always better to have a circuit whose behavior is known - even if the behavior involves fuses blowing for even silly little faults - than to have one that could go anywhere. Floating circuits are also no fun for electricians. Many have been fooled (and zapped) when their wiggie lit (or did not light) because one end was connected to a flaoting wire. Wiggie: A small neon bulb tester, used by electricians to do quick and dirty checks for voltage. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 17:00:44 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403232234.AA19841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <4060C19C.2070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > > >>Like who would invest in a NEW LS-TTL computer? > > > Someone who is truly dedicated to the cause of computing, who understands that > computing technology took the wrong turn about 20 years ago, and who is > dedicated to fixing it and setting it back on track. > > That's why I'm building a new VAX, a real bona fide VAX product just like DEC, > NOT an emulator. I think we need real CPU's not just emulators for the classic computers of all the older systems. In real life I have not had much good luck with the vax, since it was in the era of "Thou users shall not touch the most holy VAX". > When the Republic of Mars declares independence and holds its first presidential > election, I'll definitely run with a platform of immigration and customs laws > that would require migrants from Earth to leave their pee seas behind and allow > only Classic Computers to be used in the Republic of Mars. Supplying the entire > Republic of Mars with enough VAX processors will be no small task, and the > limited stockpiled of old DEC gear will certainly be insufficient. We need new > production. Well count me a rebel, Down with VAX, down with the Republic! "Organic transistors and computers need to be developed on MARS, not silicon stuff." I favor a simple techological base for MARS since I could not be independant with having to rely on some EARTH patent or custom chip, for basic things like air or food and water. BTW Travel to MARS is keeping me from claming my 3.125 square miles of land. > We need new real Classic Computers in full production. Emulators are not the > answer: what are you going to run your emulator on if non-Classic computers are > banned? > > MS Pulls out a slide rule. (-_-) Ben. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 23 17:18:28 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: uVax2000 formatting question In-Reply-To: References: <1080074866.23938.20.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040323151813.01f639a8@mail.zipcon.net> Google is my friend :) http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/fmtbob.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 23 17:29:23 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403232329.AA19968@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > I favor a simple techological base for MARS > since I could not be independant with having to rely on some EARTH > patent or custom chip Patent?!?! We won't honor no fucking patents! I'm the reincarnated Karl Marx! My new VAX will be completely open source hardware: I'll open-source the Verilog code. There will be no problem with fabbing it right there on Mars. > BTW Travel to MARS is keeping me from claming my 3.125 square miles > of land. I'm sorry to inform you, but your title to that land is invalid. The same goes for everyone selling and buying land on Moon and Mars. That land belongs to the Galactic Federation. The Federation will give that land for free to any refugees from Earth fleeing from capitalism and seeking to live a completely egalitarian society without money or property, but if you start claiming property, we won't respect your claims any more than we respected the feudal landlords of czarist Russia we overthrew in 1917. MS From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Mar 23 17:31:08 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: uVax2000 formatting question In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040323151813.01f639a8@mail.zipcon.net> References: <1080074866.23938.20.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> <6.0.3.0.2.20040323151813.01f639a8@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <4060C8BC.70206@4mcnabb.net> Geoff Reed wrote: > Google is my friend :) > > http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/fmtbob.html > > > Just what the doctor ordered. You da man! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 17:49:43 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403232329.AA19968@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <4060CD17.4090801@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > My new VAX will be completely open source hardware: I'll open-source the Verilog > code. There will be no problem with fabbing it right there on Mars. Umm I can live with verlog! ** Scratches head *** How did you get to Mars so quick? > I'm sorry to inform you, but your title to that land is invalid. The same goes > for everyone selling and buying land on Moon and Mars. That land belongs to the > Galactic Federation. The Federation will give that land for free to any > refugees from Earth fleeing from capitalism and seeking to live a completely > egalitarian society without money or property, but if you start claiming > property, we won't respect your claims any more than we respected the feudal > landlords of czarist Russia we overthrew in 1917. I tend to favor the idea that humanity made a wrong turn somewhere about the breakup of the last ice Age. Mars is our last chance to get the system right. > MS From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 17:55:52 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403232329.AA19968@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <4060CE88.8050207@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > My new VAX will be completely open source hardware: I'll open-source the Verilog > code. There will be no problem with fabbing it right there on Mars. > Umm stupid question. Can you run the development and bootstrap software on a vax? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 23 18:05:52 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <200403240005.QAA15013@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Michael Sokolov wrote: > >> My new VAX will be completely open source hardware: I'll open-source the Verilog >> code. There will be no problem with fabbing it right there on Mars. >> >Umm stupid question. Can you run the development and bootstrap software >on a vax? > > The biggest problem you'll have is that hard disks will fail on Mars. The atmosphere is not thick enough to float the heads. You'll have to go back to paper tape and punch cards. Dwight From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 23 18:08:41 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:18 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403240008.AA20028@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > I tend to favor the idea that humanity made a wrong turn somewhere about > the breakup of the last ice Age. No, you've got the timing slightly off. The end of the last ice age was around 13000 y BP (before present) and the big wrong turn in the history of this planet was in the year 2024 BCE (i.e., about 4027 y BP) as explained in my very important work on the subject: http://ivan.Harhan.ORG/documents/2003-05-briefing-doc.txt Now this is really OT for this list, for please follow up off-list. MS From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 23 18:11:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040324001129.GA18850@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:13:53AM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > (My signature, along with many others, is in the Mac SE and/or > Mac II case; I worked on the timer manager (!) and the %1 > key what pops out the floppy. Quite an accomplishment, eh? :-) > > (One of those two machines had enough extra ROM space there's > a group photo in there, I'm sure my head gets 4 - 6 pixels in > the back row.) The SE... I've seen the picture. Cool. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Mar-2004 00:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.2 F (-60.2 C) Windchill -133.9 F (-92.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.8 kts Grid 090 Barometer 679 mb (10663. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 23 18:15:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <200403240005.QAA15013@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200403240005.QAA15013@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040324001531.GB18850@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 04:05:52PM -0800, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > The biggest problem you'll have is that hard disks will > fail on Mars. The atmosphere is not thick enough to float > the heads. You'll have to go back to paper tape and punch > cards. They barely work here! Hard drives do not like operating at 10,000' as much as they do below 8,000' (and the dry air doesn't conduct heat away from them very well... strangely enough, we have overheating problems all over Antarctica, worse so at altitude). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Mar-2004 00:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.2 F (-60.2 C) Windchill -133.9 F (-92.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.8 kts Grid 090 Barometer 679 mb (10663. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Mar 23 18:19:26 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403240019.AA20065@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > Umm stupid question. Can you run the development and bootstrap software > on a vax? By development software I assume you mean the tools for working with Verilog (simulation and synthesis), right? I'm using the open source Icarus Verilog and it can run on anything, though since it's written in Anshit C I'm forced to use gcc rather than native cc. I guess if necessary it can be run through unprotoize and thus made truly portable. Not sure what you mean by bootstrap software, if you mean things like VMB, that's written in VAX macrocode and runs on the VAX, so I don't see where the problem is. I'll also have a real console FEP to implement the functions of Chapter 10 of the VAX spec (lacking the real STD 032 I use the chapter and section numbering from VARM 2nd ed.), for which I will use some 8 or 16-bit microprocessor of the appropriate time period. Fortunately there are 8/16-bit microprocessors that existed at the time of VAX-11/7xx and are still made (Z80 and 8086 come to mind). MS From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 23 17:53:24 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <003901c41112$0cae75a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at Mar 23, 4 08:04:27 pm Message-ID: > > > > NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > This can potentially leave a circuit floating, wich can be > > much more > > > dangerous. Try to HI_POT test a device in this > > configuration, and you If a HI-POT test is what I call a megger test (that's a high voltage earth leakage test) or flash test (high voltage breakdown test) then it must be done with the switch _on_ (and in certain cases with internal relays shorted out or otherwise operated). Otherwise you're just testing the bit of wire from the mains input to the switch. > > > may very well let the "magic-smoke" out. If you are > > switching on the > > > raw power side, the neutral should always remain connected. In fact > > > this is code for many (most/all) CE/UL approval stamps! Odd. The UK regulations specifically suggest breaking both live and neutral (although live only is acceptable in many cases). And for 3 phase star, breaking all 3 phases and neutral. You can't have independant protective devices (like fuses) in both wires, in case the one in the neutral wire blows first and leaves the whole thing connected to the live side of the mains. But you can certainly have a double-pole circuit breaker that breaks both wires together. You cna even have trip coils in each wire, provided that overcurrent in either wire causes the breaker to break both (If you only have a single trip coil, it has to be in the live side. For 3 phase, it's recommended to have a trip coil in each phaae wire, but for delta connected 3 phase, you can have one in each of 2 of the phases, I believe). It's also strange that _every_ piece of quality electronic equipment I have here, from the likes of Tektronix, HP (that's _old_ HP, not the modern trash with that name on it!), DEC, etc, has double pole mains switching. It's also recomented in _every_ electornics construciton book I've looked at recently. > > > > Certainly something could be designed so a hot and neutral break > > ("disconnect") is quite safe, but you are right, most > > applications are safer just breaking the hot. Plus, breaking Can you give me a good phusical explanation for this. The only one I can think of is if the switch fails so that the live side doesn't open any more then you'd have the equivalent of a single pole switch in the neutral side. You;d not notice that (the switch would still turn the device on and off), but it could be dangerous. But I have never seen that failure mode. > > both really is just a waste of money for a more complex switch. > > I'm lost as to how a device with a switch that breaks both > Live and Neutral can be *more* dangerous that a device with > a switch that breaks only Live (or just breaks one line, > for those of you who have to work with people who wire > things up wrong ... "consumers" is the technical term, > I believe). No, the techincal term is 'electricians', at least over here ;-). Seriously, I've seen some terrible wiring done by so-called professional electricians, including a distribution panel on a workbench where alternate socket outlets had live/neutral swapped (!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 23 18:02:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 23, 4 06:02:30 pm Message-ID: > If you break both, the device could float. Floating parts > are generally not good in the electrical world, as their behavior is Exactly why not? Are you saying that the main switch in your fuse box / consumer unit / breaker box / whatever you call the thing after the electricity meter in your house is a single pole device ? In the UK it is _required_ to be a double pole one, breaking live and neutral (and for 3 phase star installations it's required to break all 3 phases and neutral). > uncertain. It is always better to have a circuit whose behavior is known - > even if the behavior involves fuses blowing for even silly little faults - The behaviour of a circuit with a double pole mains switch is known. And I have _never_ come across a problem that could only be explained by the fact that both mains wires were disconnected. > than to have one that could go anywhere. > > Floating circuits are also no fun for electricians. Many have been fooled > (and zapped) when their wiggie lit (or did not light) because one end was > connected to a flaoting wire. The most common problem is that your neon tester will light on a disconnected wire due to capacitive coupling to a still live wire. This is a safe error, in that it says a wire is live when it's not. For the life of me I don't see how a totally isolated circuit can test dead on a neon tester but actually be live (in fact I don't see how it can be live at all if it's isolated on both live and neutral wires). > > Wiggie: A small neon bulb tester, used by electricians to do quick and > dirty checks for voltage. Horrible things!. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 23 17:38:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Mar 23, 4 09:02:52 am Message-ID: > > >Has anybody tried taking the original switch apart and cleaning the > >contacts (if that's the failure mode)? I'vc repaired switches in other > >equipment that way. > > Yes. That wasn't it. There was a little plastic part broken inside > that looked un-glue-able. It still clicked, but no electrical contact Oh, right... The 'HP' switch I am looking for is a replacement for one that failed in much the same way -- the plastic became brittle with age, and cracked. It couldn't be repaired (at least not without making a complete new part, something I didn't really want to try to do). > was made any more. YMMV, of course, but that's what happened to mine. -tony From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Mar 23 18:23:43 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies References: <20040324001129.GA18850@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <000701c41136$43f43300$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Bloody newbies > On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:13:53AM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > > (My signature, along with many others, is in the Mac SE and/or > > Mac II case; I worked on the timer manager (!) and the %1 > > key what pops out the floppy. Quite an accomplishment, eh? :-) > > > > (One of those two machines had enough extra ROM space there's > > a group photo in there, I'm sure my head gets 4 - 6 pixels in > > the back row.) > > The SE... I've seen the picture. > > Cool. > > -ethan Is this like an Easter Egg or something? I've got a couple of SEs and I'd like to see the pic. Is it easy to access? bm From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 23 18:42:18 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources Message-ID: <200403240042.QAA15028@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk ---snip--- >> >No, the techincal term is 'electricians', at least over here ;-). >Seriously, I've seen some terrible wiring done by so-called professional >electricians, including a distribution panel on a workbench where >alternate socket outlets had live/neutral swapped (!). > >-tony > Hi Actually the worst I've seen is painters. They remove covers from switches and sockets. Often damaging wires. In two cases that I've seen, they shorted a hot wire to ground so their fix was to go to the circuit box and swap neutral and ground. Nice surprise when I had to fix the water heater. I don't think UL has anything to say about both lines being switched by a common switch. I think they only talk about an independent switch on neutral as being a problem. UL is only interested in safety of the operator and not the repairman. As long as it doesn't make the chassis hot or start a fire, you can get UL on something that blows up the electronics of a unit every time you turn it on. Dwight From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 23 13:52:39 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: <16480.37325.729000.856377@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040324005103.CSAE11615.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I'd say either those components shown in solderside.jpg were replaced > at some point, or the person doing the hand-soldering wasn't > particularly competent. More likely the latter since the signs are > there at every pin that's a hand-soldered part, as far as I can see. > > It doesn't look like re-melting as you suggested. So it's not that > solder has escaped from the joints, it's simply that more was > originally put on it than the rules of good workmanship call for. > Look at D910 (a bit further to the right on that photo) for an example > of good work. (I think that one is the wave solder machine at > work...) Hmmm, > > The brown gunk looks like flux (rosin) that wasn't cleaned off. The > solder joints have more solder on them than they should, but not so > much that you'd get solder bridges as far as I can see. Excess flux > can cause corrosion and leakage current, but I don't see corrosion > here and some leakage is not all that likely to be an issue for a > power circuit such as this. I'm curious what a leakage and corrsion looks like with flux left on the circuit board? > It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to re-heat those joints with a > piece of Solder Wick to suck up the excess solder, and then clean off > the rosin with a suitable flux remover. (Unfortunately the good ones > are all Politically Incorrect. Maybe acetone would work, I haven't > tried lately.) Actone from paint dept works well. Get a box of swabs (Q-tips is best, generics sucks; excuse me). > The dark spots on the board seem reasonable. Those resistors are high > power wirewound units, those get *very* hot in normal use. Raising > them -- and high current diodes like D907 -- off the board is a > typical trick to get better cooling. The radiated heat tends to > discolor the board at some point, that isn't necessarily an issue. I call those golden brown spots as slow bake. Perfectly normal. Real black and crumbling (always when a part fried) is no good, has to dug out. I do sometimes on the TV & monitors at work. I work for a electronic repair shop daily. > Something to look at, though: on the "solder.jpg" picture I wonder > about the funny rings on the right solder joint of R923 and R924. > That may just be a shadow, or it may be a mechanical problem in that > joint. It wouldn't hurt to find joints like that and re-melt them. This is called fractured joints, fix them. Before soldering, get a pink eraser or rod eraser that can take off oxidization on old penny, give it a few scrubs over those suspect joints including the component lead to break the oxide barrier to let solder wet properly. Blow out the eraser crumbs. Remove the CRT tin cover, you will see some cracked rings on many parts too. Ditto to any hot parts, heavy parts and/or large pins. Those soldered joints I made looks like factory originals and extremely shiny, wetted, sometimes looks black due to flawless shine. Ditto no sign of flux, I clean them depending on products, if it is junky or too little estimate, do good job but no clean up. Those excess solder in that photos is sign of a rushed, lazy tech. What kind of digital camera taken those outstanding photos that showed those cracked rings in those solder side joints? Even sony who reworked their stuff, still is sloppy. :-) Cheers, Wizard > paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Mar 23 18:51:40 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403231951.41002.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 23 March 2004 19:02, Tony Duell wrote: > Are you saying that the main switch in your fuse box / consumer unit > / breaker box / whatever you call the thing after the electricity > meter in your house is a single pole device ? In the UK it is No, it's double pole, but it breaks only "hot" wires, not the neutral. In the US, we (normally) use a center-tapped power tranformer, with the center grounded, and being connected as the "neutral" phase, giving 120V between hot and netural and 240V between the two hots. Of course, there's also 3 phase, in the 208/102 wye, 240/120 delta, 480/277 wye, and other variants. But, I've not yet seen any service that is just a single hot + neutral. (I'd imagine that they might be used in "old" houses/apartments.) > _required_ to be a double pole one, breaking live and neutral (and > for 3 phase star installations it's required to break all 3 phases > and neutral). On 3 phase wye (star) / delta, it's customary to just break the hot phases. > > Floating circuits are also no fun for electricians. Many have been > > fooled (and zapped) when their wiggie lit (or did not light) > > because one end was connected to a flaoting wire. > > The most common problem is that your neon tester will light on a > disconnected wire due to capacitive coupling to a still live wire. > This is a safe error, in that it says a wire is live when it's not. > For the life of me I don't see how a totally isolated circuit can > test dead on a neon tester but actually be live (in fact I don't see > how it can be live at all if it's isolated on both live and neutral > wires). My guess would be a that a there's a live phase that's connected and the other phase is isolated.... which is why you should always test phase to ground, not phase to phase. Of course, I assume that the ground is connected properly, which may not be a valid assumption; it wasn't connected to some of the outlets in my last apartment! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Mar 23 18:57:54 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4113b$0a9c13c0$947ba8c0@p933> That's pretty much what happened to my switch. The rocker rocks but won't "stick" in either on or off and no contact is made. I did find what looks like a nearly correct part at JameCo (http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=91&prrf nbr=3295&cgrfnbr=501&ctgys=) I'm still holding out hope for an "original" though. I still haven't found what I need for the fuse holder on the Heathkit. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Electronic components sources > > >Has anybody tried taking the original switch apart and cleaning the > >contacts (if that's the failure mode)? I'vc repaired switches in other > >equipment that way. > > Yes. That wasn't it. There was a little plastic part broken inside > that looked un-glue-able. It still clicked, but no electrical contact Oh, right... The 'HP' switch I am looking for is a replacement for one that failed in much the same way -- the plastic became brittle with age, and cracked. It couldn't be repaired (at least not without making a complete new part, something I didn't really want to try to do). > was made any more. YMMV, of course, but that's what happened to mine. -tony From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 23 19:09:32 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources References: <003901c41112$0cae75a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <16480.57292.529000.369242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >> > > NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> > > >> > > This can potentially leave a circuit floating, wich can be > >> much more > > dangerous. Try to HI_POT test a device in this > >> configuration, and you >> > > may very well let the "magic-smoke" out. If you are > >> switching on the > > raw power side, the neutral should always >> remain connected. In fact > > this is code for many (most/all) >> CE/UL approval stamps! I don't believe it. You have to have DPST switches in Germany/Holland because Schuko plugs are not polarized. And pretty much every power supply these days is universal -- 90 to 265 volts -- with a baker's dozen approval stickers on it. CE and UL, KEMA, TUeV, etc. So DPST is fine for UL. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 23 19:12:18 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor References: <16480.37325.729000.856377@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040324005103.CSAE11615.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <16480.57458.280000.668605@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "jpero" == jpero writes: >> The brown gunk looks like flux (rosin) that wasn't cleaned off. >> The solder joints have more solder on them than they should, but >> not so much that you'd get solder bridges as far as I can see. >> Excess flux can cause corrosion and leakage current, but I don't >> see corrosion here and some leakage is not all that likely to be >> an issue for a power circuit such as this. jpero> I'm curious what a leakage and corrsion looks like with flux jpero> left on the circuit board? Corrosion would look green typically. Leakage: I had a circuit that was flaky until I washed it better. That was water soluble flux, probably more conductive than classic rosin flux. paul From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 19:45:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <1080082389.10082.32.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Ernest wrote: > I agree, it is hard to make a site look nice. After working on it for a while, > I've gotten used to the color scheme. It's much easier on the eyes than > the way I had it set up originally, which was basically all white, with > blue text -very garrish. Sellem saw it before. He'll vouch. I liked it :) Then again, perhaps my tastes tend towards the garish side... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 23 19:46:30 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <0403240019.AA20065@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403240019.AA20065@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040324014630.GA29051@mapo1.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 04:19:26PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I'll also have a real console FEP to implement the functions of Chapter 10 of > the VAX spec... for which I will use some 8 or 16-bit microprocessor of the > appropriate time period. Fortunately there are 8/16-bit microprocessors that > existed at the time of VAX-11/7xx and are still made (Z80 and 8086 come to > mind). The console FEP in a KA730 is an 8085. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Mar-2004 01:41 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82 F (-63.3 C) Windchill -140.5 F (-95.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.5 kts Grid 095 Barometer 678.3 mb (10691. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 19:50:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <4060C19C.2070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Well count me a rebel, Down with VAX, down with the Republic! > "Organic transistors and computers need to be developed on MARS, > not silicon stuff." I favor a simple techological base for MARS > since I could not be independant with having to rely on some EARTH > patent or custom chip, for basic things like air or food and water. There are no patents on Mars. If they wanted to come after you, they'd have to send their lawyers over, which is too costly (and there aren't any four star hotels or health spas there). On Mars, all bets are off. And if I get there first, you'll all have to bow to me. Muhahahahaha! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 19:51:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <0403232329.AA19968@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I'm sorry to inform you, but your title to that land is invalid. The > same goes for everyone selling and buying land on Moon and Mars. That > land belongs to the Galactic Federation. The Federation will give that > land for free to any refugees from Earth fleeing from capitalism and > seeking to live a completely egalitarian society without money or > property, but if you start claiming property, we won't respect your > claims any more than we respected the feudal landlords of czarist Russia > we overthrew in 1917. Maybe not, but you WILL respect my overwhelming firepower. Muhahahahahaha! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 23 19:52:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <200403240005.QAA15013@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > The biggest problem you'll have is that hard disks will > fail on Mars. The atmosphere is not thick enough to float > the heads. You'll have to go back to paper tape and punch > cards. How about Bubble Memory? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 19:59:02 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403240019.AA20065@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <4060EB66.2030807@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > By development software I assume you mean the tools for working with Verilog > (simulation and synthesis), right? I'm using the open source Icarus Verilog and > it can run on anything, though since it's written in Anshit C I'm forced to use > gcc rather than native cc. I guess if necessary it can be run through > unprotoize and thus made truly portable. > > Not sure what you mean by bootstrap software, if you mean things like VMB, > that's written in VAX macrocode and runs on the VAX, so I don't see where the > problem is. No I mean a total bootstrap of the system. Can you rebuild the software from source paper tape on small system? Can you rebuld the hardware with chips and a soldering iron? The hard drive in a machine shop? I can't help it, running FOCAL on a PDP-8 from the TTY left me with the idea that the user can use or program or fix the computer they have. Trying to build my own CPU from scratch has left me thinking why is software so hard to bootstrap? After reading on the net how little software source is left for CP/M or software for the lesser made PDP's what would happen the future? > I'll also have a real console FEP to implement the functions of Chapter 10 of > the VAX spec (lacking the real STD 032 I use the chapter and section numbering > from VARM 2nd ed.), for which I will use some 8 or 16-bit microprocessor of the > appropriate time period. Fortunately there are 8/16-bit microprocessors that > existed at the time of VAX-11/7xx and are still made (Z80 and 8086 come to > mind). Too bad you can't use a PDP-11. > MS Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 23 20:02:59 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 References: Message-ID: <4060EC53.8070005@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mars, all bets are off. And if I get there first, you'll all have to > bow to me. Muhahahahaha! > But I'll have the only computer with da blinking lights, so you better be nice to me. Ben. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 23 19:59:49 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: <000701c41136$43f43300$6402a8c0@ralph> References: <20040324001129.GA18850@bos7.spole.gov> <000701c41136$43f43300$6402a8c0@ralph> Message-ID: <20040324015949.GB29051@mapo1.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 07:23:43PM -0500, Brian Mahoney wrote: > "Ethan Dicks" wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:13:53AM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > (One of those two machines had enough extra ROM space there's > > > a group photo in there, I'm sure my head gets 4 - 6 pixels in > > > the back row.) > > > > The SE... I've seen the picture. > > Is this like an Easter Egg or something? I've got a couple of SEs and I'd > like to see the pic. Is it easy to access? It's just like an Easter Egg. To display the picture on an SE, you hit the programmer's reset button, and at the ">" prompt, type "G 4188A4", and a grainy B&W picture of the developers appears on the screen. cf. http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive/Archive/info/mac-newton-easter-egg-list-94.txt -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Mar-2004 01:51 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.2 F (-60.1 C) Windchill -133.5 F (-91.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.7 kts Grid 092 Barometer 678.2 mb (10695. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Mar 23 20:08:38 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403240216.VAA08419@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Seriously, I've seen some terrible wiring done by so-called > professional electricians, When I and my now-ex bought the place I'm currently living in, one of the sellers (informally) told us that her father, an electrician, had done some of the wiring. Oy. I know of one electrician I'm never going near. You'd think that in a case like that he'd be even more careful than for an arm's-length job, and yet I found things like connections made by twisting and taping, no wire nut or solder or anything. I haven't looked up whether such a thing can be code, but I sure hope not. Even my ex found it rather hair-raising. (She had no particular electrical experience, just a grasp of the underlying principles; I, on the other hand, did approximately half the wiring in a several-thousand-square-foot house my parents built out in BC.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Mar 23 20:31:38 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: <20040324015949.GB29051@mapo1.spole.gov> from Ethan Dicks at "Mar 24, 4 01:59:49 am" Message-ID: <200403240231.SAA14640@floodgap.com> > To display the picture on an SE, you hit the programmer's reset button, > and at the ">" prompt, type "G 4188A4", and a grainy B&W picture of the > developers appears on the screen. Any good on the SE/30? (It's under some "stuff" in the stock closet, but I'd like to see this if the SE/30 has it too.) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The whippings shall continue until morale improves. ------------------------ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Mar 23 20:19:18 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <0403232234.AA19841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403232234.AA19841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403240223.VAA08482@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Emulators are not the answer: what are you going to run your emulator > on if non-Classic computers are banned? I am most certainly not going to be anywhere that's evil enough to lay down bans on what kinds of computers may see private use. And I do not mean "evil" in the Jargon File sense. Such a ban would be deeply evil in the serious sense of the word, and I for one will not tolerate it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 23 20:45:43 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: LF H8 software Message-ID: <200403240245.i2O2jhJ2039292@huey.classiccmp.org> >Hi Dave > When you guys get this code on CD, let me know as well. >I've been planning on getting my H8 up and running. I've >already written code to transfer disk image data from the >H89 to a PC and back. It shouldn't take much to adapt it >to work for cassette or even just a memory block. > I have a H27 that I've not tested yet, being that I've not >powered up the H8 yet. On the H89, I just used the line >printer port, since it used a straight cable to a PC >serial port. The code is bootstrapped from about 50 >bytes that are entered from the monitor. >Dwight Hi Dwight, I'll keep you and everyone else who has responded informed on whatever material I am able to collect. Btw, I've got scads of 8080 software that I wrote for my Altair which could be easily ported to the H8 if anyone is interested - Including my own disk operating system, BASIC interpreter and even a C compiler - The OS was originally run on a NorthStar 10 sector hard sectored disk system which is probably not that different from the Heathkit one. I don't have a disk system for my H8 :-( .. if anyone knows of one or comes across one, I'd like to hear about it. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 23 20:45:43 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website Message-ID: <200403240245.i2O2jhJ2039293@huey.classiccmp.org> >On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 10:42, Dave Dunfield wrote: >> >My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to take a look. >> > >> >http://www.apple2clones.com >> >> I did a package on my Franklin Ace 100 earlier this year, which consists of >> lots of detailed photos (inside and out) including Franklin labled Monitor and >> Disk drive, scan of the manual (if you haven't seen the FA100 manual - it's >> an interesting read), as well as other reference documentation. I also included >> a Franklin Simulator (which is really just an Apple2 simulator with the Ace100 >> ROM image) - You are welcome to this material if you want it for your site. > >Yeah, that would be great! That's exactly the kind of stuff that I would >like to add to the site. You can email the stuff to me, or I could >download it... or, you could log onto the site and upload it. What ever >is easiest for you. Thanks for the offer. I'm located out in the country with only dial-up access, and the Franklin "package" is over 100 megs - I'll try to arrange to have it placed somewhere where you can grab it, otherwise, I can just send you a CD. I could trim the package a fair bit if necessary - I've got a fair number of reference books and other material scanned that you couldn't legitimately post on a web site anyway. >> Btw, are you aware of any Unitron models in a single-piece case (not separate >> keyboard) with the numeric pad? I've got one which I'm trying to identify, >> however my searches have turned up either machines without the numeric pad, >> or machines with separate keyboard. - Ever seen one like this? > >No, I haven't seen or heard of one like that. I've only seen the ones >that are on the site, which don't have the numeric pad. > >Pictures of your Unitron would be great for the site too, if you >wouldn't mind. Sure, I can include some - I have them on file already. I'll contact you via email when I have something in place that you can access. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 23 20:35:10 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <200403240216.VAA08419@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > When I and my now-ex bought the place I'm currently living in, one of > the sellers (informally) told us that her father, an electrician, had > done some of the wiring. > > Oy. I know of one electrician I'm never going near. You'd think that > in a case like that he'd be even more careful than for an arm's-length > job, and yet I found things like connections made by twisting and > taping, no wire nut or solder or anything. I haven't looked up whether > such a thing can be code, but I sure hope not. Not around here. Probably nowhere at this point. At some point it was probably OK. Certainly we all have seen some horrible electrical jobs done by professional electricians. However, for the most part they do a decent job, and they know lots of things about code that most people do not know (or think they do, but are mistaken. Trust me, there are zillions of little rules that most people ignore). The number of horrible jobs done by amateurs, even the "good" ones, far outnumbers the number of horrible jobs done by professionals. This is the reason I do very little plumbing work in my house. I just don't know the rules, and I do not want to screw up. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Mar 23 22:34:47 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: finding old RAM Message-ID: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> SIMMS are the new stuff -- lets talk old, like: 1 meg X 1 bit DRAM in a 20 pin DIP package. I bet most of that has ended up on the landfill by now. I need a large quantity to populate Amiga RAM boards. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 23 23:14:31 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20040323211129.L46980@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > SIMMS are the new stuff -- lets talk old, like: > 1 meg X 1 bit DRAM in a 20 pin DIP package. I bet most of that has ended > up on the landfill by now. I need a large quantity to populate Amiga RAM > boards. You call that "old"??!? 1 meg x 1 DIPs are less than 20 years old, BARELY any older than SIMMs or SIPs. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Mar 24 00:14:20 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403240614.AA20407@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > No I mean a total bootstrap of the system. Can you rebuild the software > from source paper tape on small system? Yes, you can, except that for UNIX systems like 4.3BSD-Quasijarus it's magtape rather than perfotape. > Can you rebuld the hardware with > chips and a soldering iron? With the initial FPGA implementation this will be problematic since all FPGAs that I know of (sufficiently large ones anyway) come only in those damn BGA packages. But if/when we can fab a real chip, I would definitely use a more hacker-friendly package if the package choice were up to me. > The hard drive in a machine shop? That's a tough one too, though I have heard that making the required Class 100 clean room is not that hard. > Too bad you can't use a PDP-11 [for the new VAX FEP]. Well, as Ethan pointed out, the 730 used an 8085, so I don't really see a problem with using a Z80 or even an 8086 (hey, before everyone attacks me, it ain't a Pentium, and it *is* of the right age). MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Mar 24 00:19:32 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 Message-ID: <0403240619.AA20429@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > > Emulators are not the answer: what are you going to run your emulator > > on if non-Classic computers are banned? > > I am most certainly not going to be anywhere that's evil enough to lay > down bans on what kinds of computers may see private use. Look, that was meant to be tongue in cheek! I can't imagine how could someone take it seriously... MS From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 24 00:40:54 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: KA620 References: <0403240614.AA20407@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <40612D76.70803@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > With the initial FPGA implementation this will be problematic since all FPGAs > that I know of (sufficiently large ones anyway) come only in those damn BGA > packages. But if/when we can fab a real chip, I would definitely use a more > hacker-friendly package if the package choice were up to me. I tend to agree here! At least with surface mount stuff you could use a toaster oven for PCB developent. For my own use I have altera 10k FPGA prototype board but I have stopped developing with it since I keep having get a new free license every few months as well as having no way to burn a serial prom for it. Ben. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 24 00:56:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: finding old RAM References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <002401c4116d$19545080$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: re: finding old RAM > SIMMS are the new stuff -- lets talk old, like: > > 1 meg X 1 bit DRAM in a 20 pin DIP package. I bet most of that has ended > up on the landfill by now. I need a large quantity to populate Amiga RAM > boards. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > I need 16 of the following for my Amiga 2091 SCSI card (just got it with a 2000HD system today): CMOS 256K x 4 DRAMs (44C256) rated at 120 ns or faster. Without memory on the card the SCSI controller can't do DMA transfers, so its running as fast as a BIG floppy drive. Anybody have a box of these in their parts bins? From hassan at SyberDesk.com Wed Mar 24 02:21:23 2004 From: hassan at SyberDesk.com (Hassan Shaikh) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD Message-ID: <40614503.7020208@SyberDesk.com> Hi, I've got a generic PC/XT 8088 clone (contains NEC processor) with no HDD and two 5.25" FDD. Needless to say that the media as well as the O/S (M$ DOS) is not available in my local market. I was wondering if it's possible to: (1) Install a 3.5" 1.44MB FDD in it. (2) Acquire FREEDOS and boot the machine (3) Use some sort of DOS terminal program to connect to a Linux machine Appreciate any help and guidance. Thanks. Hassan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 24 03:31:01 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <1080058724.8892.7.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest > Sent: 23 March 2004 16:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: New apple II clones website > > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to > take a look. > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, > but I'm hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about > PHP programming, will be able to help me design a better way > to display the images. Nice! I'm uber-jealous that you've got a Microprofessor-II as well - I've got the external keyboard for it but that's me lot. I see you've gone down the same route as me for picture displaying - tables. I tried all sorts of ways getting the format right using just CSS but it's not to be yet, particularly if you want full cross-browser compatibility. The only thing I can suggest is make the menus on the left have a smaller font, then you can get more images in on the right - I'm using 1600x1200 and the menus seem large even at that resolution :) Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 24 03:33:14 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 23 March 2004 19:30 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Bloody newbies > > No MacPlus. Original Macs. Macintosh Plus machines are as > common as Commodore 64s. > I thought as much :) Hells, if people DO keep offering me originals I'll hoover 'em up no problem, probably at the expense of the multiples of classics I've got! Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 24 03:36:31 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: <002901c4111c$87c35b20$6402a8c0@ralph> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney > Sent: 23 March 2004 21:20 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Bloody newbies > > I would say that the docs and software, if the docs are > things like the original invoice etc. would be pretty good to > stash away. Sellam says there are lots of SEs around, which > there are but there are very few of anything around, IMHO, > with documentation. I have a IIe with 'some' original > paperwork and some original boxes. At auto auctions you > always get more when the manual is sitting there right on the > dashboard. Yep, I always try and get the docs if possible. I'm swimming in documentation for all the LCs I've got but that was only because the Missus' school was chucking everything out so I rescued as much as I could. Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 24 03:39:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <1080082389.10082.32.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest > Sent: 23 March 2004 22:53 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: New apple II clones website > > The MPF-II is surpisingly compatible with the Apple II, at > least running DOS 3.3 anyway. I'm going to write up a small > article on it, and put it through it's paces, etc. I haven't I've got a review of it from before its launch; I'll get it scanned for BinarySaurs and send you the links. They played mostly on its Apple compatibility and even had the monitor/tv showing a line drawing of the apple logo :) Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 24 03:48:36 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: <20040324005103.CSAE11615.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: 23 March 2004 19:53 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: More on my flickering DEC monitor > > I'm curious what a leakage and corrsion looks like with flux > left on the circuit board? So am I, for future reference...... > good, has to dug out. I do sometimes on the TV & monitors at > work. I work for a electronic repair shop daily. You're a handy man to have about then :) > This is called fractured joints, fix them. Before soldering, > get a pink eraser or rod eraser that can take off oxidization > on old penny, give it a few scrubs over those suspect joints I just sucked off the old solder and put new on - it's nice and shiny now. > Remove the CRT tin cover, you will see some cracked rings on many > parts too. Ditto to any hot parts, heavy parts and/or large pins. Yup, I went over everything that was dull and tired looking. The only real cracks were the ones I photographed. Having gone over the PSU and logic boards I got it all back together last night and it's sitting next to me now running my second desktop. So far it's producing a much better picture than the the Compaq monitor I'm looking at now.....which is 4 years younger. > it is junky or too little estimate, do good job but no clean > up. Those excess solder in that photos is sign of a rushed, > lazy tech. So it's been repaired before then..... > What kind of digital camera taken those outstanding photos > that showed those cracked rings in those solder side joints? 'tis a 2 year old Fuji 6800, possibly the last half decent camera they produced before coming up with the awful A601. Works best on a tripod though - those pix were hand held so I'm surprised they came out so well! Cheers w From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 24 05:38:47 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: WAY OFTOPIC (Was: Re: KA620) In-Reply-To: <0403232329.AA19968@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: Guys, can we drop the dribble, please? --f On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > > > I favor a simple techological base for MARS > > since I could not be independant with having to rely on some EARTH > > patent or custom chip > > Patent?!?! We won't honor no fucking patents! I'm the reincarnated Karl Marx! > > My new VAX will be completely open source hardware: I'll open-source the Verilog > code. There will be no problem with fabbing it right there on Mars. > > > BTW Travel to MARS is keeping me from claming my 3.125 square miles > > of land. > > I'm sorry to inform you, but your title to that land is invalid. The same goes > for everyone selling and buying land on Moon and Mars. That land belongs to the > Galactic Federation. The Federation will give that land for free to any > refugees from Earth fleeing from capitalism and seeking to live a completely > egalitarian society without money or property, but if you start claiming > property, we won't respect your claims any more than we respected the feudal > landlords of czarist Russia we overthrew in 1917. > > MS > -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 24 06:46:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <002401c4116d$19545080$0500fea9@game> References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040324074626.00882b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:56 AM 3/24/04 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >> > >I need 16 of the following for my Amiga 2091 SCSI card (just got it with a >2000HD system today): > > CMOS 256K x 4 DRAMs (44C256) rated at 120 ns or faster. Those are EASY to find. Just go to a surplus store and grab the old VGA type video cards. A lot of them used those chips and they're frequently socketed. You need to check the part numbers, the 4 x 256k chips are available with a number of different part numbers but the PNs are usually some variation of xxxx4256-xxx. > >Without memory on the card the SCSI controller can't do DMA transfers, so >its running as fast as a BIG floppy drive. > >Anybody have a box of these in their parts bins? Yeap :-) I use them in my HP Viper cards. I picked up over 200 of the ICs in video cards in one trip to a surplus store. Joe > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 24 06:56:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <40614503.7020208@SyberDesk.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040324075643.0094b410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:21 PM 3/24/04 +0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >I've got a generic PC/XT 8088 clone (contains NEC processor) with no HDD >and two 5.25" FDD. Needless to say that the media as well as the O/S (M$ >DOS) is not available in my local market. I was wondering if it's >possible to: > >(1) Install a 3.5" 1.44MB FDD in it. There were plenty of aftermarket disk drive controller cards that had built in BIOS that supported 1.44 drives. Other than that you can use the DRIVER.SYS program in MS-DOS to handle the floppy. >(2) Acquire FREEDOS and boot the machine I'm not familar with FREEDOS so I can't help there. >(3) Use some sort of DOS terminal program to connect to a Linux machine There are LOTs of terminal programs available for the DOS only PCs. Used commercail programs can be found cheap and there's plenty of shareware programs available on the net. Joe From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Mar 24 07:16:03 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <002401c4116d$19545080$0500fea9@game> References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <002401c4116d$19545080$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <2825.65.123.179.159.1080134163.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I found them on old VGA cards, 256kx4 is a very common chip on them. I populated all my 2091's for next to nothing. Could I interest you in other Amiga goodies, such as an Ethernet card? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > I need 16 of the following for my Amiga 2091 SCSI card (just got it with > a > 2000HD system today): > > CMOS 256K x 4 DRAMs (44C256) rated at 120 ns or faster. > > Without memory on the card the SCSI controller can't do DMA transfers, so > its running as fast as a BIG floppy drive. > > Anybody have a box of these in their parts bins? > > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 24 07:37:53 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040324074626.00882b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002701c411a5$35c8bac0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:46 AM Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM > At 01:56 AM 3/24/04 -0500, you wrote: > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > >I need 16 of the following for my Amiga 2091 SCSI card (just got it with a > >2000HD system today): > > > > CMOS 256K x 4 DRAMs (44C256) rated at 120 ns or faster. > > Those are EASY to find. Just go to a surplus store and grab the old VGA > type video cards. A lot of them used those chips and they're frequently > socketed. You need to check the part numbers, the 4 x 256k chips are > available with a number of different part numbers but the PNs are usually > some variation of xxxx4256-xxx. > > > > > >Without memory on the card the SCSI controller can't do DMA transfers, so > >its running as fast as a BIG floppy drive. > > > >Anybody have a box of these in their parts bins? > > Yeap :-) I use them in my HP Viper cards. I picked up over 200 of the > ICs in video cards in one trip to a surplus store. > > Joe > > > > > > > Any chance you could part with 16 of them? I only had 2 here (from an old vga card) and those ended up in my Diamond ISA video card (tseng et4000ax) used in my 386/40 old dos game rig. 99% of the computers I deal with use either proprietary memory SIMMs or standard 30 pin SIMMs and up, so I haven't needed to source loose drams before. Teo From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 24 07:37:45 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040324074626.00882b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Those are EASY to find. Just go to a surplus store and grab the old VGA > type video cards. A lot of them used those chips and they're frequently > socketed. You need to check the part numbers, the 4 x 256k chips are > available with a number of different part numbers but the PNs are usually > some variation of xxxx4256-xxx. Also, older systems memory boards.. I once ripped about 900 off old boards like that... I believe they were Philips systems, but I assume any late-eighties-early-nineties system would do. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 24 07:39:17 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040324075643.0094b410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >(3) Use some sort of DOS terminal program to connect to a Linux machine > > There are LOTs of terminal programs available for the DOS only PCs. > Used commercail programs can be found cheap and there's plenty of shareware > programs available on the net. MS-Kermit (Kermit-PC) is an excellent program which can be fitted on a bootable diskette. --f From cb at mythtech.net Wed Mar 24 09:11:25 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: >probably at the expense of the multiples of >classics I've got! Before you junk the Classics, open them and pull the RAM card if it is present. They are getting harder to find and you should be able to sell them. -chris From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 24 11:11:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:19 2005 Subject: Fw: pdp 11 Message-ID: <012401c411c3$05dbc3c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> If anyone can help him, please contact the original poster. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rice Billy" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:06 AM Subject: pdp 11 > My company uses an Adcole cam inspection system that uses a PDP 11 operating system. > We need our master disks which are 8", copied. We have a new box of disks. Do you know of anyone who has the capability and would do this for us. > > Billy Rice > Maintenance & Facilities Manager > Ambac International > (803)-462-9601 > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Mar 24 12:45:31 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001d01c411d0$2f4928d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If you break both, the device could float. Floating parts > are generally not good in the electrical world, as their > behavior is uncertain. Assuming the switch functions correctly (and is wired correctly), the behaviour of a device with such a switch in the off position is pretty certain: it's identical to a device that has the mains lead pulled out. So such a device should worry you no more or less than one on a shelf waiting to be put to use. I assume that I'm missing something fundamental and that we are talking about different things here somehow ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 24 13:05:35 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080155134.13560.49.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 01:31, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest > > Sent: 23 March 2004 16:19 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: New apple II clones website > > > > My Apple II clones website is live now, if anyone wants to > > take a look. > > > > http://www.apple2clones.com > > > > The image module that I'm using is limited to what you see, > > but I'm hoping that a friend of mine, who knows a lot about > > PHP programming, will be able to help me design a better way > > to display the images. > > Nice! I'm uber-jealous that you've got a Microprofessor-II as well - I've > got the external keyboard for it but that's me lot. I see you've gone down > the same route as me for picture displaying - tables. I tried all sorts of > ways getting the format right using just CSS but it's not to be yet, > particularly if you want full cross-browser compatibility. > > The only thing I can suggest is make the menus on the left have a smaller > font, then you can get more images in on the right - I'm using 1600x1200 and > the menus seem large even at that resolution :) The I like the little Microprofessor, too. It was one of those computers that I HAD to have, and I even got it for a pretty good price on ebay, $83.00 back in November 2002. The image display is a pain in the ass. I mean, it works OK but everytime I try to tweak one part, it screws up the rest of it. It almost needs to be written as two separate parts -the list, and the album. Right now, the code is all jumbled together and its hard to make sense of it. I had to step away from it for a while. Are you viewing the site with a Mozilla variant browser? The site looks different in different browsers, of course, but Mozilla makes the "medium" fonts look enormous. I haven't seen it on Safari or Opera yet, but I think that it looks the best in Konqueror. I'll play around with the Block widths and see if I can find a happy medium. Part of the problem is that I'm using a 22" monitor, so its hard to know how it would look on the more typical 17" monitors. Right now, the blocks on the side have a width of 140, so maybe I'll bring it down to 100 or 110. Either way, I'll play around with it and try some different settings. E. From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 24 13:07:17 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080155237.13190.52.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 01:39, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest > > Sent: 23 March 2004 22:53 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: New apple II clones website > > > > The MPF-II is surpisingly compatible with the Apple II, at > > least running DOS 3.3 anyway. I'm going to write up a small > > article on it, and put it through it's paces, etc. I haven't > > I've got a review of it from before its launch; I'll get it scanned for > BinarySaurs and send you the links. They played mostly on its Apple > compatibility and even had the monitor/tv showing a line drawing of the > apple logo :) I would love to see that! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 24 13:10:27 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040324075643.0094b410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040324075643.0094b410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040324110207.Q81040@newshell.lmi.net> > At 12:21 PM 3/24/04 +0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > >I've got a generic PC/XT 8088 clone (contains NEC processor) with no HDD > >and two 5.25" FDD. Needless to say that the media as well as the O/S (M$ > >DOS) is not available in my local market. > I was wondering if it's > >possible to: > >(1) Install a 3.5" 1.44MB FDD in it. On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > There were plenty of aftermarket disk drive controller cards that had > built in BIOS that supported 1.44 drives. Other than that you can use the > DRIVER.SYS program in MS-DOS to handle the floppy. The stock disk controller will handle 720K; but NOT 1.4M. You can even get away with using a 1.4M drive for the 720K. For use with 720K, the only software needed is to let the OS know. That can be done with DRIVER.SYS, or DRIVPARM. DRIVPARM will NOT work with the IBM BIOS. DRIVPARM is present in MS-DOS, and is present but undocumented in PC-DOS. DRIVPARM is incompatible with the IBM BIOS. If you NEED 1.4M, then you will have to replace the floppy disk controller with one that supports the higher data transfer rate (500K bps), and software to replace INT13h of the BIOS. Some of those boards include their own replacement BIOS in a ROM chip on the board.The most popular and sought after of those boards is the Micro-Solutions "Compaticard" -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 12:57:53 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <40614503.7020208@SyberDesk.com> Message-ID: <20040324185753.89902.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hassan Shaikh wrote: > Hi, > > I've got a generic PC/XT 8088 clone (contains NEC > processor) with no HDD > and two 5.25" FDD. Needless to say that the media as > well as the O/S (M$ > DOS) is not available in my local market. I was > wondering if it's > possible to: > > (1) Install a 3.5" 1.44MB FDD in it. > (2) Acquire FREEDOS and boot the machine answer is yes > (3) Use some sort of DOS terminal program to connect > to a Linux machine > > Appreciate any help and guidance. > > Thanks. > > Hassan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 24 14:16:40 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: New apple II clones website In-Reply-To: <1080155134.13560.49.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest > Sent: 24 March 2004 19:06 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: New apple II clones website > > The I like the little Microprofessor, too. It was one of > those computers that I HAD to have, and I even got it for a > pretty good price on ebay, $83.00 back in November 2002. Yeah, last time one appeared over here it went for silly money which surprised me; the Apple compatibility must boost its desireability somewhat..... > -the list, and the album. Right now, the code is all jumbled > together and its hard to make sense of it. I had to step away > from it for a while. Heh, been there done that :) It's the main reason all my photo galleries are on their own with no side menus - doing a multi-line gallery is easy but incorporating it in with another sidebar using tables would be an annoyance to code out since I build them up a line at a time. > Are you viewing the site with a Mozilla variant browser? The Yep - firefox 0.8. > site looks different in different browsers, of course, but > Mozilla makes the "medium" fonts look enormous. I haven't > seen it on Safari or Opera yet, but I think that it looks the I tried using 'medium' and 'small' fonts and ended up specifying a size in pixels to get sort of the best view across all browsers. > best in Konqueror. I'll play around with the Block widths and > see if I can find a happy medium. Part of the problem is that > I'm using a 22" monitor, so its hard to know how it would > look on the more typical 17" monitors. Right now, the blocks Yarr. Now that I've fixed my 21" monster thanks to the folks here I can run a dual desktop with 19" and 21" monitors for that overindulgent feel :oD Talk about a waste of electricity....heh..... Cheers w From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Mar 24 14:29:08 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <002701c411a5$35c8bac0$0500fea9@game> References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com><3.0.6.32.20040324074626.00882b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <002701c411a5$35c8bac0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <1052.65.123.179.155.1080160148.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I have enough to populate all my 2091 boards, but I'll look. I do have the VGA cards with the ram soldered in, but I'm sure you don't want to go through the hassles of desoldering them. Gary Hildebrand > Any chance you could part with 16 of them? > > I only had 2 here (from an old vga card) and those ended up in my Diamond > ISA video card (tseng et4000ax) used in my 386/40 old dos game rig. > 99% of the computers I deal with use either proprietary memory SIMMs or > standard 30 pin SIMMs and up, so I haven't needed to source loose drams > before. > > Teo From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Mar 24 17:33:38 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? Message-ID: <200403242333.i2ONXcj12683@mwave.heeltoe.com> Anyone have experience with the +15v regulator buried deep inside the back of a BA11? (this an 11/34a actually) It appears one let go on me this morning. The symptom initial symptom was no +15/-15v, so I went to my garage and pulled the two supplies from a "spare" BA11. I replaced them and got the -5 and +20 back but no +15. I should have known it would be the supply deepest inside the back of the thing, requiring I completely disconnect the back module. blah. Is it hard to get to and replace? I'm tempted just to swap the back ends of the two BA11's... -brad From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 24 12:42:43 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: More on my flickering DEC monitor In-Reply-To: <16480.57458.280000.668605@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040324234105.KRBE15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Snip > jpero> I'm curious what a leakage and corrsion looks like with flux > jpero> left on the circuit board? > > Corrosion would look green typically. > > Leakage: I had a circuit that was flaky until I washed it better. > That was water soluble flux, probably more conductive than classic > rosin flux. > > paul Got it. Only ones that is "dry" were had water soluble flux and was washed off properly. Yet those "dry" boards made resoldering jobs tedious because I have to buff off oxidization on component leads. Those that had old fashioned flux and left on was easier to work with and kept solder "fresh" looking. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 24 12:42:43 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040324075643.0094b410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <40614503.7020208@SyberDesk.com> Message-ID: <20040324234113.KREI15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > At 12:21 PM 3/24/04 +0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I've got a generic PC/XT 8088 clone (contains NEC processor) with no HDD > >and two 5.25" FDD. Needless to say that the media as well as the O/S (M$ > >DOS) is not available in my local market. > I was wondering if it's > >possible to: > > > >(1) Install a 3.5" 1.44MB FDD in it. > > There were plenty of aftermarket disk drive controller cards that had > built in BIOS that supported 1.44 drives. Other than that you can use the > DRIVER.SYS program in MS-DOS to handle the floppy. Also the XT supports 720K using newer DOS (3.3 and up) with that 1.44 drive as 720K. Easier and I have done that before. > >(2) Acquire FREEDOS and boot the machine Google is your friend. > Joe Cheers, Wizard From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Mar 23 09:11:50 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4598@MAIL10> I plan on being there, too, but probably for only one of the days. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:34 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: VCF East 2.0 dates announced: July 16-17 Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >It's basically official: VCF East 2.0 will be held on July 16-17 >(Friday-Saturday). I've already told the wife what I want for my birthday -- and so we have a couple of months to line up babysitters, etc. etc. From the sounds of it, barring the earth exploding before then, I'm gonna be there! Having never been to one before, is there any lodging discounts / reservations at a particular hotel, or is it "Fend for oneself?" Thanks! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From myvirtualgaragesale at cogeco.ca Tue Mar 23 10:25:43 2004 From: myvirtualgaragesale at cogeco.ca (My Virtual Garage Sale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: My old computer stuff for sale Message-ID: <001d01c410f3$7d7455d0$4535fea9@mastera7v333xp> Hi everyone: Due to interest shown in my old stuff, I have set up a web site for my old stuff (including non-computer stuff) so everyone can see it and I won't have to bother everyone on this list. I am adding to it daily as I dig out my stuff and create postings for them. Some stuff I will be putting up on ebay and will try to note that on the relevant pages. Anyway; If you wish, you may check my site periodically: http://home.cogeco.ca/~myvirtualgaragesale/index.html Andrew From kevan at heydon.org Tue Mar 23 13:28:40 2004 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: 19" Rack Needs a new home (UK) In-Reply-To: <001501c410fd$91e104f0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <20040323192749.N71540-100000@goliath.heydon.org> > Why cant you live on the other side of the North Sea ? I could sort out postage! I would love to see their faces in the postoffice :-) -- Kevan From KParker at workcover.com Tue Mar 23 16:39:48 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies Message-ID: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31EE8B@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> Hell - I've got one of these in pristine condition with a you beaut Apple, padded carry bag. Could be good source of revenue :-) +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, 23 March 2004 7:10 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Bloody newbies http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794565538&category=124 7&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3ABIN&rd=1 Gaah! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From ronboley at optonline.net Tue Mar 23 16:56:46 2004 From: ronboley at optonline.net (Ron Boley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Looking for E&L Instruments Fox Trainer info Message-ID: <003f01c4112a$1dffab90$9e01a8c0@P42800> Hi Folks, I'm looking for information on the E&L Instruments Fox Trainer (MT-80Z) which is a Z80 based teaching tool. I'd like to know what the power supply specifications are for the unit, is there documentation on the trainer and the embedded firmware (Eprom) on board ? In looking through your archives I came across a post from John R. Keys Jr. (December 1, 2002) stating that he had a MultiTech Microprofessor MPF-1B which was part of the E&L Instrument Fox trainer. I don't know if John is still on this list and if he still has that information. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Robo From JRoth602 at aol.com Wed Mar 24 01:12:40 2004 From: JRoth602 at aol.com (JRoth602@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: ATC-510 Simulator power cord. Message-ID: <66.3e24bebb.2d928ee8@aol.com> Hi I've been searching on the web for a power cord for my ATC-510. I ran across something saying you found one or found a place where you could find one. I know it was a couple of years ago that you posted the message. Any help I could get would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 24 17:45:58 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: <001d01c411d0$2f4928d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > Assuming the switch functions correctly (and is wired correctly), > the behaviour of a device with such a switch in the off position > is pretty certain: it's identical to a device that has the > mains lead pulled out. Not completely. The cord, all the way to the switch, is still energized. And remember, many of today's devices are not always completely off - they might tap into the line just a little bit (clock, for instance). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From GEORGE.J.BODENHAMER at saic.com Tue Mar 23 16:59:31 2004 From: GEORGE.J.BODENHAMER at saic.com (Bodenhamer, George J.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Cirrus 1000 Message-ID: <33216CFF9E87C041B0218355D3FCA6820218457C@US-SD-PLTC.mail.saic.com> Do you still have the tester (It's still on the web) George J. Bodenhamer SAIC Sr. Special Projects Engineer (619)823-8997 Cell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 24 17:25:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> from "ghldbrd@ccp.com" at Mar 23, 4 10:34:47 pm Message-ID: > > SIMMS are the new stuff -- lets talk old, like: > > 1 meg X 1 bit DRAM in a 20 pin DIP package. I bet most of that has ended That's not old. _OLD_ DRAMs are Intel 1103 1K*1 bit PMOS chips, needing +16V and +19V supplies, and using similar logic levels... > up on the landfill by now. I need a large quantity to populate Amiga RAM > boards. Seriously, I could use some 1103s. 32 of them actually, along with a couple of the 3207 driver chips. My HP9830 uses such RAM, and 'only' has 6K words of store. There's space on one of the memory PCBs for 32 more chips to bring it up to 8K. I'd also have to add at least one 3207 (used to drive the precharge, CE/ and WE/ lines) a couple of transistors and some passives I think. But this is hardly an important project :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 24 17:30:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <40614503.7020208@SyberDesk.com> from "Hassan Shaikh" at Mar 24, 4 12:21:23 pm Message-ID: > > Hi, > > I've got a generic PC/XT 8088 clone (contains NEC processor) with no HDD > and two 5.25" FDD. Needless to say that the media as well as the O/S (M$ > DOS) is not available in my local market. I was wondering if it's > possible to: > > (1) Install a 3.5" 1.44MB FDD in it. Not easily. The PC/XT controller only supports the 250kbps data rate, while 1.44M drives use double that. You can add a 720K 3.5" drive, but not all BIOSes will boot correctly from it. There were HD (500kbps) controller cards for the XT with a BIOS extension EPROM on them. These would let you use 1.2M 5.25" and 1.44M 3.5" drives, but I have no idea where you'd find one these days. > (2) Acquire FREEDOS and boot the machine Should be possible. > (3) Use some sort of DOS terminal program to connect to a Linux machine I've run MS-DOS kermit on a true-blue PC/XT and used it as a terminal to a VAX and a DEC unis box. No reason why it wouldn't work on a linux box. You do have a serial port. I trust (this is normally a DB25P (male) connector on PC/XT machines). > > Appreciate any help and guidance. If you only want to use it as a terminal (or for a similarly limited application) you might find it easier to get a few 5.25" disks (they are not that rare yet) and put the necessary software on those, rather than trying to add a 3.5" drive to the XT -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 24 17:49:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: <200403242333.i2ONXcj12683@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 24, 4 06:33:38 pm Message-ID: > > > Anyone have experience with the +15v regulator buried deep inside the > back of a BA11? (this an 11/34a actually) Yes, I've totally stripped the PSU section of this box (I assume you mean a BA11-K -- the 10.5" 11/34 cabinet). > > It appears one let go on me this morning. The symptom initial symptom > was no +15/-15v, so I went to my garage and pulled the two supplies from > a "spare" BA11. I replaced them and got the -5 and +20 back but no +15. IIRC, the -15V regulator needs the +15V line to work. So when the latter is down, the former doesn't work either. > > I should have known it would be the supply deepest inside the back of > the thing, requiring I completely disconnect the back module. blah. No it doesn't!. Remove the top and bottom covers from the 11/34, then swing the box to the vertical position. Loosen the top screw each side, remove the lower 2 screws each side and swing the PSU away (you've already done this to remove the regulator bricks). You'll see a unit under the trnasformer in the centre. There are some little white plugs at the bottom -- unplug those (and the external ones to the power controller if present). Unplug the white plastic edge connector above them. Remove the screws on the bottom of the PSU (it's either 3 or 4, I forget). The power control unit (relay box, essentially) and the 15V regulator board now slip out of the back of the PSU chassis. You cna now get to the +15V regulator to repair it. The circuit is really simple, and repairing it shouldn't take that long! I assume you have prints. -tony From lists at microvax.org Wed Mar 24 18:23:31 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403250023.31166.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 24 March 2004 23:45, William Donzelli wrote: > > Assuming the switch functions correctly (and is wired correctly), > > the behaviour of a device with such a switch in the off position > > is pretty certain: it's identical to a device that has the > > mains lead pulled out. > > Not completely. The cord, all the way to the switch, is still energized. > And remember, many of today's devices are not always completely off - > they might tap into the line just a little bit (clock, for instance). How is this different from a circuit that doesn't chop both conductors? alex/melt From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 24 19:05:57 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT Clone and 1.44MB FDD In-Reply-To: <20040324234113.KREI15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <40614503.7020208@SyberDesk.com> <20040324234113.KREI15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20040324170352.K4574@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Also the XT supports 720K using newer DOS (3.3 and up) with that 1.44 > drive as 720K. Easier and I have done that before. 3.20 was the version that began the official support of 720K 3.30 supported 1.4M SOME OEM versions of MS-DOS as early as 2.11 supported NON-STANDARDIZED 720K formats. From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Mar 24 19:13:10 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources Message-ID: <24030484.61969@webbox.com> actually, the usual switches these days on PC computers are only logic switches back to the power supply. The power supply does "tap into" the ac line to get a little power it needs. My P4 that I built last year uses an ANTEC case and there is no AC going out to a front panel switch - it is only a push button. A good rule of thumb is that if a switch clicks then it probably has AC on it. If it doesn't then it MIGHT be only low voltage. As an electrical engineer, I would not take the chance and assume it is low voltage without checking. Any computer that is pre-ATX will have AC voltage on the power switch. Some early ATX and maybe even now (I don't know for sure) may still have a real switch out front. The older mini-tower systems that have a power switch out front usually had a AC connector on the back of the power supply and a four conductor cable that ran out to the power switch. The power could tap into the AC line without affecting the switch out front. The older NEC, etc systems sometimes had a seperate power suply with an AC connector and cables, etc that were not integrated into the power supply like the PC, AT, ATX supplies that came along. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: meltie >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >Date: 3/24/04 7:23:31 PM > On Wednesday 24 March 2004 23:45, William Donzelli wrote: >> > Assuming the switch functions correctly (and is wired correctly), >> > the behaviour of a device with such a switch in the off position >> > is pretty certain: it's identical to a device that has the >> > mains lead pulled out. >> >> Not completely. The cord, all the way to the switch, is still energized. >> And remember, many of today's devices are not always completely off - >> they might tap into the line just a little bit (clock, for instance). > >How is this different from a circuit that doesn't chop both conductors? > >alex/melt > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Mar 24 19:25:51 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: AC Power Switching (was Electronic components sources) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To all that have posted.... My original comment was made specifically in reference to 2-wire (therefore single phase) power sources WITHOUT an independent ground. Note: This is ALWAYS the case with a device that uses an external power supply wich just supplys a low voltage to the actual device (e.g. Wall Warts). The comment is totally in-applicable (IMHO) when there is a dedicated (non-switched) ground connection OR the power is multi-phase. With this as the configuration there are a number of issues that can (and undoubtably will) arise if both of the legs are disconnected in a power off condition. It is necessary to realize that this condition is EXACTLY equivilant to the device being unplugged! The first condition is discharge. This can be the result of either static or an external application of charge. [Oversimplifing things a wee bit] Charge will always seek to evenly distribute itself. It will do this through the path of least resistance. If the Ground of the circuit is available, this will typically be the most commong route, and is usuaslly designed to handle larger currents than paths between signals [which typically also have higher resistance]. Consider normal static protection. It is necessary (or at least good practice) to be VERY careful when dealing with loose chips (which have their power and ground paths disconnected). Also good to be careful with board level assemblies. Not so important when dealing with completely assembled units (while unplugged). The reason for the dramatic drop in static mortality in dealing with assembled units is the fact that the power supply is intact and can absorb/buffer most of the transients involved. If the power supply is external (closer to the actual source of power than the switch), it effectively does not exist. If the power supply can dump the charge via the external connection, so much the better. There is no chance of long term build-up (which would discharge when the connections are completed). Therefore, I (and most of the other design engineers I know) fully recommed ONLY switching the hot side of a 2 legged connection. David V. Corbin President Dynamic Concepts From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Mar 24 19:27:39 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: KA620 In-Reply-To: <4060B6AF.70009@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky versions of of CPUs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben franchuk >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:14 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: KA620 >>> >>> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>> >>> > I think you've missed what AXE does. >>> > >>> > I give you a spec for the chip (in this case DEC STD 032, the VAX >>> > Architetcure Manual). You build the chip. >>> >>> I did miss that point that it is a pre-production rather >>> than a post-production test. >>> >>> > I want to know if you've built a chip that meets the spec >>> or just one >>> > that "almost" meets the spec. >>> >>> Don't look at me , my CPU's never meet the spec, but then >>> again I am not doing a commerical product. >>> Like who would invest in a NEW LS-TTL computer? >>> I tend to be over 20 ns my clock period or way too many >>> chips but I have fun unlike people in the real world desiging CPU's. >>> >>> >>> >>> > CPU diags are there to check that the chip was stamped >>> properly at the >>> > factory and still works after you spurt coke all over it. >>> >>> Umm what about the cold pizza too? >>> >>> > That's not AXE's job. >>> Thank you for the insight. >>> Ben. >>> >>> >>> >>> From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 24 19:45:12 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: Message-ID: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky versions > of of CPUs So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware level. We have 1 vote for a VAX. I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. (Grumble all the good names have been taken) Ben. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 24 20:02:47 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001101c4120d$4548f2e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. Well, if you're going to build a blinkenlights functioning replica - go all the way and do an IBM 360/70. Jay From aek at spies.com Wed Mar 24 20:07:39 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas's Message-ID: <200403250207.i2P27dqO028016@spies.com> So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware level. -- I'm biased towards machines that no longer exist, but have surviving software: SDS 940 BCC 500 A Xerox Alto using modern components would be interesting as well. It would easily fit into a medium sized FPGA now. From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 24 20:20:25 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 17:45, ben franchuk wrote: > David V. Corbin wrote: > > Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky versions > > of of CPUs > > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. > > We have 1 vote for a VAX. > I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. > (Grumble all the good names have been taken) My vote is for a metal box, with lots of blinken lights all over it, and a few non-sensically cryptic words and stripes silk screened artfully under specific areas and light groupings. Oh, and add a few toggle or paddle switches that probably don't actually do anything. Paint it a sky blue or chartreuse green, with orange or purple stripes, and it would be perfect. I don't care if it computes or not. I just like flippin switches and blinken lights. Weird paint schemes are good, also, and the box should use massive amounts of electricity and heat the entire house all by itself. We need more replica's like THAT. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Mar 24 20:14:02 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: AC Power Switching (was Electronic components sources) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403250220.VAA23778@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > My original comment was made specifically in reference to 2-wire > (therefore single phase) power sources WITHOUT an independent ground. > Note: This is ALWAYS the case with a device that uses an external > power supply wich just supplys a low voltage to the actual device > (e.g. Wall Warts). I'm not so sure of that last. I have seen wall warts - not many, but a few - that had three-pin plugs. Whether they actually did anything right with the ground pin (like connecting it to the shield on the low-voltage connector) is another issue, but they certainly had it. (They also tended to be physically large; I'm counting them as wall-warts because they had their mains plug rigidly fixed relative to the body of the unit, rather than on the end of a wire.) > The comment is totally in-applicable (IMHO) when there is a dedicated > (non-switched) ground connection OR the power is multi-phase. The devices I, at least, thought we were talking about were desktop-style machines with an always-on mains cord, with a power switch that breaks the two power leads but not the ground lead. So either I misunderstood something from the get-go or most of the discussion has been talking past one another. :-) As someone pointed out, peecee ATX power supplies often use soft power-off, which is a different sort of thing. Some ATX supplies also have a real power switch; some don't - I can't see anything in this discussion that's relevant to soft power switching. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed Mar 24 20:25:23 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C06@email1.parl.net> CPUs could have emulated guts, either software or one off hardware designs, with replica enclosures and front panels. That feels like it would result in a reasonable result for the effort required, but mechanical I/O will be the tough bit. I have recently mulled over the idea of constructing a PDP-11/04 replica; I imaged a bent metal case, a replica programmer's front panel, and an internal PC mother board running SIMH would be feasible, but I have shuddered at the thought of trying to interface it to 8" floppy drives (if I could find any), or building a card reader and line printer. BTW: What is the origin of this message? I cannot find it in my mail archive. David -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben franchuk Sent: Thursday, 25 March 2004 12:45 PM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Computer Replica's So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware level. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Mar 24 20:33:46 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: My vote would have to go for either an '11 or a Vax (since there are already solutions for an '8 which is my primary interest....) >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben franchuk >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:45 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Computer Replica's >>> >>> David V. Corbin wrote: >>> > Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power >>> Schottky >>> > versions of of CPUs >>> >>> So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers >>> that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- >>> blinking lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same >>> hardware level. >>> >>> We have 1 vote for a VAX. >>> I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. >>> (Grumble all the good names have been taken) Ben. >>> >>> From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 24 20:30:26 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's B-205 References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: <40624442.30805@jetnet.ab.ca> Ernest wrote: > My vote is for a metal box, with lots of blinken lights all over it, and > a few non-sensically cryptic words and stripes silk screened artfully > under specific areas and light groupings. Oh, and add a few toggle or > paddle switches that probably don't actually do anything. Paint it a sky > blue or chartreuse green, with orange or purple stripes, and it would be > perfect. I don't care if it computes or not. I just like flippin > switches and blinken lights. Weird paint schemes are good, also, and the > box should use massive amounts of electricity and heat the entire house > all by itself. We need more replica's like THAT. > You mean like here. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/ Ben. PS. They seem to have parts of a real B205 complete with tubes. A good restore project around Portland, Oregon?. Check the site for details. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/ecd.html Ben. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 24 20:36:50 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Mar 24, 2004 06:45:12 PM Message-ID: <200403250236.i2P2aoLq019699@onyx.spiritone.com> > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. > > We have 1 vote for a VAX. > I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. > (Grumble all the good names have been taken) > Ben. I don't see much need for a VAX personally, what I'd like to see most is a PDP-10 capable of running TOPS-10 and TOPS-20. A PDP-11 with 22-bit addressing would be nice as well. Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 24 20:40:19 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <001101c4120d$4548f2e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > Well, if you're going to build a blinkenlights functioning replica - go all > the way and do an IBM 360/70. S/360 model 91 is the one to do (I assume you do not mean S/360 model 70). That is the one with the astounding number of lights. Rememberm if you do a replica, be sure to include the sound of many fans... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 24 20:53:22 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's B-205 In-Reply-To: <40624442.30805@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> <40624442.30805@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1080183201.13190.70.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 18:30, ben franchuk wrote: > Ernest wrote: > > My vote is for a metal box, with lots of blinken lights all over it, and > > a few non-sensically cryptic words and stripes silk screened artfully > > under specific areas and light groupings. Oh, and add a few toggle or > > paddle switches that probably don't actually do anything. Paint it a sky > > blue or chartreuse green, with orange or purple stripes, and it would be > > perfect. I don't care if it computes or not. I just like flippin > > switches and blinken lights. Weird paint schemes are good, also, and the > > box should use massive amounts of electricity and heat the entire house > > all by itself. We need more replica's like THAT. > > > You mean like here. > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/ > Ben. Ah! That's exactly what I was thinking of. Put that in a can, and I'll buy it. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 24 20:54:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040324185144.O4574@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > S/360 model 91 is the one to do (I assume you do not mean S/360 model > 70). That is the one with the astounding number of lights. > Rememberm if you do a replica, be sure to include the sound of many > fans... and room air conditioning smell of oil from the key punch stations appropriate level of power consumption From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 24 21:10:55 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: Message-ID: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> C'mon.... build a replica kit for a system that most of us DONT have, and probably never will get. Lots of us have vaxen, lots of us have PDP's... but I'd venture few of us will ever touch a 360 these days. So lets build the one we'll probably never get a real one of! Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 24 21:06:42 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: <002301c41216$32f3de80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > My vote is for a metal box, with lots of blinken lights all over it, and > a few non-sensically cryptic words and stripes silk screened artfully > under specific areas and light groupings. Oh, and add a few toggle or > paddle switches that probably don't actually do anything.... If we build one a month and sell them on ebay under the title "EXTREMELY RARE", each one that sells, one of us can retire. Jay From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 24 21:19:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > C'mon.... build a replica kit for a system that most of us DONT have, and > probably never will get. > > Lots of us have vaxen, lots of us have PDP's... but I'd venture few of us > will ever touch a 360 these days. So lets build the one we'll probably never > get a real one of! One word: SAGE -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Mar 24 21:17:09 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Paging David Brownlee (Re: 16MB sparc10 DIMMs) Message-ID: <200403250323.WAA24171@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> David Brownlee , do you have any other address I might try writing to? Mail to you at that address fails after five days "451 Could not complete sender verify callout", apparently because the verify code was too impatient and tried to send something before getting the greeting banner. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 24 21:27:49 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One word: > > SAGE Ummm, that's four words. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 24 21:35:07 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <002301c41216$32f3de80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> <002301c41216$32f3de80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040324193044.P4574@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > If we build one a month and sell them on ebay under the title "EXTREMELY > RARE", each one that sells, one of us can retire. Don't forget to have all of the developers sign the inside of the case! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 24 21:40:41 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> <002301c41216$32f3de80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040324193044.P4574@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <406254B9.8050001@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > >>If we build one a month and sell them on ebay under the title "EXTREMELY >>RARE", each one that sells, one of us can retire. > > > Don't forget to have all of the developers sign the inside of the case! > Now is that in Ink or Blood? :) BYW Somebody said building a SAGE replica. Is that even unclassified from the US military? Ben. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 24 21:54:03 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406254B9.8050001@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > BYW Somebody said building a SAGE replica. Is that even unclassified > from the US military? Yes, but I don't know if anyone has manuals for the computer portion (AN/FSQ-7 and -8). I have a number of manuals for other parts of SAGE (remember, SAGE was much more than the computer). All have been declassified, many years ago. All of the SAGE manuals I have ever seen have been Confidential, Restricted, or Unclassifed, not Secret. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Mar 24 22:12:05 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406254B9.8050001@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> <002301c41216$32f3de80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040324193044.P4574@newshell.lmi.net> <406254B9.8050001@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040325041205.GA375@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 08:40:41PM -0700: > BYW Somebody said building a SAGE replica. Is that even unclassified > from the US military? Surely someone in Russia or someplace must have already built a replica or at least have the plans, so, if information about a that can somehow be obtained, then it will matter not if the SAGE is still classified. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cbajpai at comcast.net Wed Mar 24 22:12:53 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas's (Alto software) In-Reply-To: <200403250207.i2P27dqO028016@spies.com> Message-ID: <000501c4121f$72622fa0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> A Xerox Alto would get my vote. Does any software still exist if such an emulator were built? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:08 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Computer Replicas's So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware level. -- I'm biased towards machines that no longer exist, but have surviving software: SDS 940 BCC 500 A Xerox Alto using modern components would be interesting as well. It would easily fit into a medium sized FPGA now. From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 24 22:15:37 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:20 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <20040324193044.P4574@newshell.lmi.net> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> <002301c41216$32f3de80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040324193044.P4574@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1080188137.13233.80.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 19:35, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > > If we build one a month and sell them on ebay under the title "EXTREMELY > > RARE", each one that sells, one of us can retire. > > Don't forget to have all of the developers sign the inside of the case! Right! It also has to require that you either move your clothes dryer everytime you use it, or hire a certified electrician to wire in a special 220 wall plug. Better yet, give it a German power plug, just to make it that much more difficult to use in the US. ...and even though it's just a replica, it should still require 4 burly men to move it. That's what makes the "experience" authentic. Right? From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 24 22:15:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > One word: > > > > SAGE > > Ummm, that's four words. Ok, one ACRONYM. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 24 22:20:29 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040324074626.00882b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <002701c411a5$35c8bac0$0500fea9@game> <1052.65.123.179.155.1080160148.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <00d601c41220$824e4ec0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:29 PM Subject: Re: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM > I have enough to populate all my 2091 boards, but I'll look. I do have > the VGA cards with the ram soldered in, but I'm sure you don't want to go > through the hassles of desoldering them. > > Gary Hildebrand > > > > Any chance you could part with 16 of them? > > > > I only had 2 here (from an old vga card) and those ended up in my Diamond > > ISA video card (tseng et4000ax) used in my 386/40 old dos game rig. > > 99% of the computers I deal with use either proprietary memory SIMMs or > > standard 30 pin SIMMs and up, so I haven't needed to source loose drams > > before. > > > > Teo > > Desoldering ram chips is more effort then its worth. From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 24 22:38:53 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200403242338.53127.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 24 March 2004 20:45, ben franchuk wrote: > David V. Corbin wrote: > > Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky > > versions of of CPUs > > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. I'd second Zane's vote for a PDP-10, and an S/360 / S/370 might be nice, but I think a 7094 would be a bit cooler.. er... more fun. Hmm, those are both 36-bit machines. A DG Nova replica might be interesting, but what might be even better is a CDC 6600. Ooh, that would be fun. Hey Tom, any chance of getting enough specs off that operators console you've got to build a new one? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 24 22:45:00 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C06@email1.parl.net> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C06@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <200403242345.00685.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 24 March 2004 21:25, Kane, David (DPS) wrote: > CPUs could have emulated guts, either software or one off hardware > designs, with replica enclosures and front panels. That feels like it > would result in a reasonable result for the effort required, but > mechanical I/O will be the tough bit. I have recently mulled over the > idea of constructing a PDP-11/04 replica; I imaged a bent metal case, > a replica programmer's front panel, and an internal PC mother board > running SIMH would be feasible, but I have shuddered at the thought > of trying to interface it to 8" floppy drives (if I could find any), > or building a card reader and line printer. Interfacing with an 8" floppy drive isn't *necessarily* all that difficult... unless you want it to be RX01/RX02 format compatible. I've managed to read/write disks using a cable I made myself using 386-based Compaq Deskpro, under Linux, even! The only issue I had was that things like fdformat didn't particularly like the missing three cylinders at the end (77 vs 80). Oh, yeah, you might have an issue if the drive you're using expects a hi/lo head current signal (track > 35?). You'd have to generate that yourself somehow. I remember seeing a PIC microcontroller based solution to help with doing that somewhere online. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 24 22:40:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: AC Power Switching (was Electronic components sources) In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Mar 24, 4 08:25:51 pm Message-ID: > > To all that have posted.... > > My original comment was made specifically in reference to 2-wire (therefore > single phase) power sources WITHOUT an independent ground. Note: This is And everybody else has been talking about machines with a built-in PSU with a separate safety earth (ground) wire. The Rainbow tht started this discussion is certainly like that. Nobody is suggesting that the switch should open the safety earth -- in fact I think that is prohibited by every set of regulations I've seen. > ALWAYS the case with a device that uses an external power supply wich just > supplys a low voltage to the actual device (e.g. Wall Warts). I have worked on devices that have wall-wart type PSUs (that is to say an oversized plug containing a transformer) or with external mains transformers and with a safety earth in the low-voltage cable that's tied to the eart hpin of the mains plug. This earth was not connected to any of the low-voltage current-carrying wires in the cable. > > The comment is totally in-applicable (IMHO) when there is a dedicated > (non-switched) ground connection OR the power is multi-phase. Ah... Well the 'dedicated ground connection' is common in properly-designed equipment IMHO. > > With this as the configuration there are a number of issues that can (and > undoubtably will) arise if both of the legs are disconnected in a power off > condition. It is necessary to realize that this condition is EXACTLY > equivilant to the device being unplugged! > > The first condition is discharge. This can be the result of either static or > an external application of charge. [Oversimplifing things a wee bit] Charge > will always seek to evenly distribute itself. It will do this through the > path of least resistance. If the Ground of the circuit is available, this > will typically be the most commong route, and is usuaslly designed to handle > larger currents than paths between signals [which typically also have higher > resistance]. If you'ew going to allow a relatively low resistance path (low enough to disipate static charges) between one of the current-carrying mains conductors and the low voltage side then all bets are off!. Maybe then it would be safer for the device if both wires are not switched (although this is not certain!), but the device is possibly lethal to the user anyway! I'd rather have an unswitched ground connection (also used to disipate static) and double pole swtiching of the current-carrying conductors. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 24 23:15:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Need Corvus hard drive interface for the PC Message-ID: I'm in need of a PC interface board for a Corvus hard drive. Cash or trade. Need soon. Please contact me directly to negotiate. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 24 23:55:36 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Documentation request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm currently trying to find documentation on an Apple ][ BBS program called GBBS Pro. Specifically, I'm after documentation that describes the "&" commands used by the assembly language driver as well as a list of what the CALL entry points do. Any help would be appriciated! Thanks. g. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 00:00:57 2004 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Data I/O 280 -- Promlink 2.7 needed Message-ID: Hello all, I have a Data I/O 280 programmer, and I had an old copy of Promlink 2.7 that I used to control it (someone emailed me a copy). I lost the files, and a search of my old email archives came up short. Can anyone .ZIP and email me that specific version? Data I/O no longer supports the 280, and the later versions of Promlink dropped support for the 280.... Thanks! Rich B. From tomj at wps.com Thu Mar 25 00:29:56 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Electronic components sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > If you break both, the device could float. Floating parts > > are generally not good in the electrical world, as their behavior is > > Exactly why not? Sure, maybe old MOS input circuitry, but power supplies? Is this going to turn into another one of those electro-mysticism threads? Like where were learned that "sometimes you can swap in a different power cube, and sometimes you cannot" ? I'm outa here, I have to go re-fold the paper bags or something. From tomj at wps.com Thu Mar 25 00:34:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >and the %1 > >key what pops out the floppy. Quite an accomplishment, eh? :-) > > So you are responsible for what had been one of my most often used key > combos. It's not like I came up with the function, I just wrote the 3 or a dozen instructions. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Mar 25 00:42:23 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c41234$54261dc0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > > Well, if you're going to build a blinkenlights functioning > replica - go all > > the way and do an IBM 360/70. > > S/360 model 91 is the one to do (I assume you do not mean S/360 model > 70). That is the one with the astounding number of lights. Apart from anything else, there wasn't a 360/70 (tho' it was originally intended that there be) - the mid-high part of the range went /50, /65, /75 (plus, later, /67 and /9x for various x - most commonly 1) Andy From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Mar 25 00:42:23 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <003201c41234$548ad300$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Lots of us have vaxen, lots of us have PDP's... but I'd venture few of us > will ever touch a 360 these days. So lets build the one we'll > probably never > get a real one of! > Multics (!) - or any of the GE600 famility (-> Honeywell 600 -> Honeywell 6000 -> Level 66/Level 68) or, for the truly nostalgic CS theorists, B5500 and successors Atlas - the origin of virtual memory (and, hey, it wouldn't be difficult to make more replicas than there were originals!) Andy From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 25 01:10:32 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <200403242338.53127.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <200403242338.53127.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: >I'd second Zane's vote for a PDP-10, and an S/360 / S/370 might be nice, >but I think a 7094 would be a bit cooler.. er... more fun. Hmm, those >are both 36-bit machines. Since you mention the 36-bit aspect, I'd almost suggested the Honeywell DPS-8, but decided against it do to the lack available software (there is a HUGE difference between the software *existing* and being available). Though the thought of actually being able to boot GCOS-8 at home is a bit frightening :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Mar 25 01:18:50 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: ben franchuk wrote, in part: > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. I'd actually toyed with the idea of building a new PDP-12 - I certainly haven't found an available original yet - but then started thinking along different lines: design and build a basic processor out of 1970s-level TTL, give it a basic I/O bus and a TTY interface, put the appropriate blinkenlights and switches on it, put it in an appropriately labeled and painted case, print up an appropriate amount of documentation to go with it, then put it on eBay saying it's a rare prototype of the long-lost DEC PDP-13 and see who would bite. :) Ah, if I only had more spare time and less scruples... :) :) -O.- From hansp at citem.org Thu Mar 25 01:36:02 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <200403242338.53127.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <40628BE2.2070703@citem.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Since you mention the 36-bit aspect, I'd almost suggested the > Honeywell DPS-8, but decided against it do to the lack available > software (there is a HUGE difference between the software *existing* > and being available). Though the thought of actually being able to > boot GCOS-8 at home is a bit frightening :^) Stay tuned for interesting announcements in the coming months ;-) Y'all might also look at my site : www.citem.org/Vmachines its a bit rough at the moment, the forums are broken but it gives some flavor to what I am doing. We are lobbying very hard here in Grenoble to get these projects properly funded We have a student project starting next month and he will be doing an 1130 implementation. PS My current favorites are : Atlas, B500 and GE 645 (not necessarily in that order) A big problem is test routines. They seem to to have been preserved by anyone. So if anyone comes across these for ANY machine I'd appreciate you preserving and sharing them. -- Hans > Zane > > From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 25 02:01:04 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Bloody newbies In-Reply-To: <20040324015949.GB29051@mapo1.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 24, 2004 01:59:49 AM Message-ID: <200403250801.i2P815ab005869@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> This is a general call going out to people on the list for displays, vendors, and speakers for the MGC. The event is euqally dedicated to computers, consoles, coin-ops and pinballs from past to present and with support from industry and collectors alike. It's a two day event with advertisement in radio and trade publications, and a projected attendance of 2,000-3,000. May 22nd and 23rd, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. For more information or to sign up visit http://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/join_us.php Thanks in advance and I look forward to meeting anyone from the list that is attending. Marty From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Mar 25 02:24:38 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection Message-ID: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page on it's new home: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html Let me know what ya'll think. -- TTFN - Guy From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 25 03:43:44 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <001201c4124d$aa045950$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Sotomayor" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:24 AM Subject: Moved my collection > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. > -- > > TTFN - Guy > > Out of curiosity how many years did it take to find everything in your collection? From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Mar 25 03:57:00 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <001201c4124d$aa045950$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <000001c4124f$dbed12c0$2201a8c0@finans> Impressive ! And my wife says I'm infected with the "collection bug" .... Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Moved my collection > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Guy Sotomayor" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:24 AM > Subject: Moved my collection > > > > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > > on it's new home: > > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > > > Let me know what ya'll think. > > -- > > > > TTFN - Guy > > > > > > Out of curiosity how many years did it take to find everything in your > collection? > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 16-03-2004 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 25 03:56:33 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection In-Reply-To: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Sotomayor > Sent: 25 March 2004 08:25 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Moved my collection > > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's > a web page on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. I think I've got off lightly by collecting home micros :oD I'd love a space that big to set the museum up in! Cheers w From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 25 05:16:50 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:49:52 GMT." Message-ID: <200403251116.i2PBGox18253@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: > >You'll see a unit under the trnasformer in the centre. There are some >little white plugs at the bottom -- unplug those (and the external ones >to the power controller if present). Unplug the white plastic edge >connector above them. Remove the screws on the bottom of the PSU (it's >either 3 or 4, I forget). The power control unit (relay box, >essentially) and the 15V regulator board now slip out of the back of the >PSU chassis. You cna now get to the +15V regulator to repair it. Ah! many thanks! (there are days when I think I should have either been a building super or a DEC field service tech :-) >The circuit is really simple, and repairing it shouldn't take that long! >I assume you have prints. I do have prints (from bitsavers - what a marvelous resource) I discovered the BA-11K prints also have schematics for the various regulator modules. Very handy. -brad From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 25 07:33:21 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <003101c41234$54261dc0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <005801c4126d$bda5a020$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > > Well, if you're going to build a blinkenlights functioning > > replica - go all > > > the way and do an IBM 360/70. > > > > S/360 model 91 is the one to do (I assume you do not mean S/360 model > > 70). That is the one with the astounding number of lights. > > Apart from anything else, there wasn't a 360/70 (tho' it was originally > intended that there be) - the mid-high part of the range went /50, /65, /75 > (plus, later, /67 and /9x for various x - most commonly 1) I was not referring to a 360/70... I was referring to a 360 or a 370. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 25 07:41:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection References: Message-ID: <007201c4126e$ed96c4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Guy wrote... > > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's > > a web page on it's new home: > > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > > > Let me know what ya'll think. > > I think I've got off lightly by collecting home micros :oD > > I'd love a space that big to set the museum up in! Awesome!!! I'm sooooo Jealous!!! You need to hire a caretaker/curator for that museum. Ew Ew Ew Mr. Kottairrrr! Ew Ew Pick Me Pick Me! Seriously... if there is anyone in the St. Louis area who would like to go in on a building like that, I'd be all for it and chip in half. I just can't continue collecting the way I am and keep stuff at home. Besides, I want to turn it into a public museum. C'mon, I know there's a few large collectors in St. Louis. Retirement for me isn't too far away... :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Mar 25 08:27:16 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16482.60484.774407.212122@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: ben> David V. Corbin wrote: >> Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky >> versions of of CPUs ben> So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers that ben> need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking lights, ben> mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware level. ben> We have 1 vote for a VAX. I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit ben> homebrew CPU. (Grumble all the good names have been taken) Ben. If you want a good challenge, how about a CDC 6600? That's a lovely architecture... paul From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Mar 25 09:00:40 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection In-Reply-To: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <200403250700.40777.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Guy, It looks GREAT! Terrific improvement over your former setup. Reminds me of a large DEC shop from the '70's and '80's. It brings back fond memories indeed!!! Lyle On Thursday 25 March 2004 00:24, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Mar 25 09:00:40 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection In-Reply-To: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <200403250700.40777.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Guy, It looks GREAT! Terrific improvement over your former setup. Reminds me of a large DEC shop from the '70's and '80's. It brings back fond memories indeed!!! Lyle On Thursday 25 March 2004 00:24, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From at258 at osfn.org Thu Mar 25 09:15:49 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <1080181225.13192.67.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> Message-ID: I'd love to see a KDF-9, but a LEO III is probably more realistic On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Ernest wrote: > On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 17:45, ben franchuk wrote: > > David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky versions > > > of of CPUs > > > > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > > level. > > > > We have 1 vote for a VAX. > > I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. > > (Grumble all the good names have been taken) > > My vote is for a metal box, with lots of blinken lights all over it, and > a few non-sensically cryptic words and stripes silk screened artfully > under specific areas and light groupings. Oh, and add a few toggle or > paddle switches that probably don't actually do anything. Paint it a sky > blue or chartreuse green, with orange or purple stripes, and it would be > perfect. I don't care if it computes or not. I just like flippin > switches and blinken lights. Weird paint schemes are good, also, and the > box should use massive amounts of electricity and heat the entire house > all by itself. We need more replica's like THAT. > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Mar 25 09:24:10 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: >David V. Corbin wrote: >>Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky versions >>of of CPUs > >So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers >that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking >lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware >level. Digital Group. Cards for 4 different processors, runs (how many?) different OS's, digital tape or floppy storage (and of course, I'd want SCSI before long :-) ) CP/M, eventually. This would be a pretty flexible system, if fully configured. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Mar 25 10:00:41 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) Message-ID: All, Round Tuits are in short supply around here. However my wife (after *two years* of patiently waiting) finally started shopping for printers, motivating me (it's not the money, it's the pride) to finish the repair I'd started on the Apple Stylewriter I was whining about on the list in January 2002. Success! I dug out the packet of 2SB1243 transistors (thanks Pete Turnbull for specs and identification) that arrived in the mail a few days after motivation disappeared in 2002, tested them to make sure the Base was the same place on the new package style (not the same beveled edge square package as the originals) as it was on the old package style (thanks Tony D. for telling how to test with analog VOM), and soldered them in. Put everything back together (thanks JPero, Toth, and Matt for help there and suggestions on other things to check) and plugged in the new (replaces the one I fried while testing - thanks Saint Don Maslin) power supply. No response. Changed to the other Stylewriter (won't print, but powers up) that I got from Electronics Plus (thanks Cindy Croxton). Powered up, didn't print. Changed back. The original one powered up and printed! The power supply connector is grungy, need to clean it, but otherwise the unit appears functional! That implies that the power transistor was indeed the problem all along. Main point of this message is to offer sincere gratitude to all the folks that helped me along the way! Secondarily, if anyone has the same fault (missing line of dots in the printed output from a Stylewriter), I'll be happy to pass along my experience, FWIW. Tertiarily, I'm angling for the honor of the longest (chronologically) continued thread on the list ;-). -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 25 10:06:19 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: automake,autoconf,libtool folks here? Message-ID: <00f101c41283$1c41b320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It's sort of on-topic because it relates to HPEMU :) I've run into a few snags when trying to GNU-ize HPEMU. Specifically my lack of knowledge revolves around dynamic (dlopen-able) libraries. I've googled and read info pages and I'm still missing something. I know how to do what I want by directly calling ld and it works fine, but I don't see exactly how to make that fit into the GNU way of doing things. If anyone is up on autoconf & friends and can offer some advice, please contact me off-list! Thanks in advance, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu Mar 25 10:24:40 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <000e01c41285$ac94cdc0$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Sotomayor" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:24 AM Subject: Moved my collection > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. Your setup really makes me envious. I haven't investigated retail space, only the rental 'boxes' that are all around Toronto. The storage problem for most of us who use our basements, is that there often isn't a whole lot of room left for testing/playing with/repairing etc. I had to build a sled for my Hyperion stuff just to be able to get to the back without unstacking and restacking all the boxes and hardware. I have one complete wall of three monitor deep shelving but trying to find something in that mess is a trial. Are there any brilliant ideas out there for basement/home storage? I have a 10 by 10 vinyl shed outside but I didn't want to put the computers out there due to the temp and moisture. Out went my power tools and wood so now the basement is totally computers/gaming equipment. Maybe if anyone has pics of their storage solution it might be helpful to the group. bm __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Mar 25 10:42:05 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406254B9.8050001@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16483.3037.293122.464492@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Donzelli writes: >> BYW Somebody said building a SAGE replica. Is that even >> unclassified from the US military? William> Yes, but I don't know if anyone has manuals for the computer William> portion (AN/FSQ-7 and -8). How about this: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/sage/31P2-2FSQ7-112_SagePgmNov56.pdf ("Theory of Programming -- AN-FSQ-7 Combat Direction Central) paul From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 25 10:52:04 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:16:50 EST." <200403251116.i2PBGox18253@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200403251652.i2PGq4D20795@mwave.heeltoe.com> >Tony Duell wrote: >> >>You'll see a unit under the trnasformer in the centre. There are some >>little white plugs at the bottom -- unplug those (and the external ones >>to the power controller if present). Unplug the white plastic edge >>connector above them. Remove the screws on the bottom of the PSU (it's >>either 3 or 4, I forget). The power control unit (relay box, >>essentially) and the 15V regulator board now slip out of the back of the >>PSU chassis. You cna now get to the +15V regulator to repair it. And it was as you stated. I swapped one from my "extra" BA and it works like a champ. thanks! And, in the process I finally looked for the NPG jumpers and found out which slots didn't have them (which made my ts-11 much happier :-) I also "tuned" the 785 supply - it was lagging around 13v. I assume cranking it up to 15 is the right thing to do. Anyone have an RA81 HDA they don't need? -brad From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 25 11:03:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Documentation request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Gene Buckle wrote: > I'm currently trying to find documentation on an Apple ][ BBS program > called GBBS Pro. Specifically, I'm after documentation that describes the > "&" commands used by the assembly language driver as well as a list of > what the CALL entry points do. Hey Gene. As far as I know, GBBS was always a compiled form of BASIC (ACOS). Unless this is a much earlier version (it sounds like it) in which case I don't have any of that...just later versions. I found this but it's irrelevant to you: http://www.textfiles.com/apple/DOCUMENTATION/gbbs.txt -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Mar 25 11:08:58 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? References: <200403251116.i2PBGox18253@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200403251652.i2PGq4D20795@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16483.4650.261213.338336@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> I also "tuned" the 785 supply - it was lagging around 13v. I Brad> assume cranking it up to 15 is the right thing to do. As a rule of thumb, DC power should be within 5% of the nominal value. As a DEC reality, DC power should be not less than the nominal value, nor more than 5% above. In other words, -0%, +5%. I learned that from field service when they were troubleshooting a cranky DMC11. The cause was that the power (+5V in that case, I believe) was about 3% below nominal, and the device wouldn't work reliably then. paul From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 25 11:09:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Moved my collection In-Reply-To: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. It reminded me of the ancient terra cotta Chinese soldiers that they've uncovered in China. Before you die, bury them over so that in a few thousand years they can be dug up and marveled over :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Thu Mar 25 11:33:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's Message-ID: <200403251733.i2PHX0FS012963@spies.com> > www.citem.org/Vmachines is the CCC back on line? From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 25 11:46:06 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Documentation request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I'm currently trying to find documentation on an Apple ][ BBS program > > called GBBS Pro. Specifically, I'm after documentation that describes the > > "&" commands used by the assembly language driver as well as a list of > > what the CALL entry points do. > > Hey Gene. > > As far as I know, GBBS was always a compiled form of BASIC (ACOS). Unless > this is a much earlier version (it sounds like it) in which case I don't > have any of that...just later versions. > > I found this but it's irrelevant to you: > > http://www.textfiles.com/apple/DOCUMENTATION/gbbs.txt > Yes, the version I'm after is pre-ACOS. The sad thing about the docs on Jason's site is they're corrupted just before the section I needed. Does your ACOS era info have any mention at all of the & commands? tnx! g. From auringer at tds.net Thu Mar 25 12:25:43 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 stuff in Wisconsin Message-ID: <40632427.1010108@tds.net> Hey all, The guy who just replaced my water heater noticed the stacks of equipment in my basement and mentioned he has some C64 stuff (machines, drives, monitor, carts, ...) he is looking to part with. I think he would like to get some amount of compensation for them, but I have no idea what. I said I would pass his information to the list. Please contact him directly. Physical location is Portage, Wisconsin. Jon Contact: Roger Lueder rcool@charter.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 25 12:31:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Is anyone familar with HP-IB disk drives made by IEM? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040325133126.0084db30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went by a surplus store today and found two interesting disk drives made by IEM of Ft. Collins, Co. The first drive is a Series 5300 (model 5365) and appears to be an MO drive. It has a HP-IB interface. The second drive is a series 6000 (model 6050). It has four drive indicator lights on the front so it may have four fixed drives in it. There's also an LCD display on the front and three buttons labeled "Prev", "Select", "Next". It appears to have both a HP-IB interface and a SCSI interface! Does anyone know anything about these drives or what media the first one uses or what the dip switchs on them do? I searched the net for IEM and found plenty of references to them but the link to their site is dead. The links referred to them as a thrid party supplier of HP drives but didn't give any details. Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Mar 25 13:02:33 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > We have 1 vote for a VAX. > I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. > (Grumble all the good names have been taken) Yeah, a "New VAX" (VAX NT ? :) would be fun to have. Did anyone ever try to implement something like that in a Transmeta Crusoe chip? --f From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Mar 25 13:26:44 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <16482.60484.774407.212122@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <16482.60484.774407.212122@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040325202644.11124cda.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:27:16 -0500 Paul Koning wrote: > If you want a good challenge, how about a CDC 6600? That's a lovely > architecture... Why build a replica when you can have The Real Thing: http://www.cray-cyber.org/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Mar 25 14:08:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <16482.60484.774407.212122@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040325202644.11124cda.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <16483.15423.874987.958070@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Kunz writes: Jochen> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:27:16 -0500 Paul Koning Jochen> wrote: >> If you want a good challenge, how about a CDC 6600? That's a >> lovely architecture... Jochen> Why build a replica when you can have The Real Thing: Jochen> http://www.cray-cyber.org/ -- Sure, that's neat. But I don't have it -- John Z does... People have built Cyber replicas out of FPGAs; it doesn't seem all that hard. After all, it's a nice clean RISC machine (from before the time when that term was created). Then there's http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/, but that's a software emulator... paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 25 14:44:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Anybody have a spare Pinnacle 4.6Gb Optical disk? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040325154421.008ef9b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a Pinnacle Apex optical drive but don't have any disks for it. Does anyone have one they'll loan or sell me so that I can try this thing out? Joe From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Mar 25 15:00:48 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: Message-ID: <0ea101c412ac$40f06df0$6900a8c0@athlon> Walked away from a fully functional and still warm KDF6 I could have taken (but for space limitations), with nothing but a tape reader assy, about 30 years back- always regretted it! DaveB, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle K. Peirce" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:15 AM Subject: Re: Computer Replica's > I'd love to see a KDF-9, but a LEO III is probably more realistic > > > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Ernest wrote: > > > On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 17:45, ben franchuk wrote: > > > David V. Corbin wrote: > > > > Actually there are a number of us interested in Low power Schottky versions > > > > of of CPUs > > > > > > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > > > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > > > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > > > level. > > > > > > We have 1 vote for a VAX. > > > I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. > > > (Grumble all the good names have been taken) > > > > My vote is for a metal box, with lots of blinken lights all over it, and > > a few non-sensically cryptic words and stripes silk screened artfully > > under specific areas and light groupings. Oh, and add a few toggle or > > paddle switches that probably don't actually do anything. Paint it a sky > > blue or chartreuse green, with orange or purple stripes, and it would be > > perfect. I don't care if it computes or not. I just like flippin > > switches and blinken lights. Weird paint schemes are good, also, and the > > box should use massive amounts of electricity and heat the entire house > > all by itself. We need more replica's like THAT. > > > > > > -- > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Mar 25 15:03:31 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <20040325202644.11124cda.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <16482.60484.774407.212122@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040325202644.11124cda.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200403251603.31562.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 25 March 2004 14:26, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:27:16 -0500 > > Paul Koning wrote: > > If you want a good challenge, how about a CDC 6600? That's a > > lovely architecture... > > Why build a replica when you can have The Real Thing: > http://www.cray-cyber.org/ Because I don't get to play with the operators' console!! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 25 15:59:41 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <003101c41234$54261dc0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: > Apart from anything else, there wasn't a 360/70 (tho' it was originally > intended that there be) - the mid-high part of the range went /50, /65, /75 > (plus, later, /67 and /9x for various x - most commonly 1) I was not going to nitpick. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From kittstr at access-4-free.com Thu Mar 25 10:49:05 2004 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: HP 200LX Message-ID: <067801c412b6$224b6210$ce4d4a43@amscomputer> Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? They seem to be selling for far too much on e-bay. I don't really need any of the extra things that are included in all these auctions, memory cards, adapters for this and that, modems, or manuals. I would just like the unit. Thanks in advance for any leads anyone can provide. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Mar 25 16:35:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? Message-ID: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage device? wondering if any working examples have survived... I have a half-assed plan to try and find one from somewhere at some point. We have a Sperry unit that's way beyond repair, and don't have anything other than the drum assembly itself anyway (the bearings still seem good though so I might see if it can be coaxed into spinning) - but a working demonstration would be great hooked up to one of the 1960's machines. I gather that telphone exchanges used to use them here in the UK so maybe there are still a few lurking in private hands as they must have been reasonably common at one point. The flipside of course being that they're pretty bulky devices in themselves, and with the low reliability they've maybe all gone to scrap years ago (unlike other peripherals of the area which survived). cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 25 16:45:48 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:21 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <000701c412ba$eba20f20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There was a military sealed unit that went on eBay a while back. probably $300 and as many pounds (weight). Weren't those two 1950's "desk calculators" that were anounced here drum based? John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Mar 25 17:20:25 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Moved my collection References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <00b601c412bf$c281b370$46406b43@66067007> Looks great so far and I hope you can keep that way. :-) When I got my first 1800sq/ft warehouse I was setup the same way and now I have two warehouse (3600 total sq/ft) and no room left. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Sotomayor" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:24 AM Subject: Moved my collection > I ran out of space and ended up moving my collection. Here's a web page > on it's new home: > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/home/index.html > > Let me know what ya'll think. > -- > > TTFN - Guy > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 25 17:27:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: <200403251116.i2PBGox18253@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 25, 4 06:16:50 am Message-ID: > (there are days when I think I should have either been a building super > or a DEC field service tech :-) I know I shouldn't have been a failed servoid, because I actually believe in diagnosing the fault then doing component level repair, not just swapping modules until it appears to go away... > > >The circuit is really simple, and repairing it shouldn't take that long! > >I assume you have prints. > > I do have prints (from bitsavers - what a marvelous resource) > > I discovered the BA-11K prints also have schematics for the various > regulator modules. Very handy. YEs, the CPU printsets generally incldued the PSU modules as well (and sometimes memory, teletype interface (DL11) and so on). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 25 17:33:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: <200403251652.i2PGq4D20795@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 25, 4 11:52:04 am Message-ID: > And it was as you stated. I swapped one from my "extra" BA and it works > like a champ. thanks! Oh for %deity's sake. This thing has only a handful of components. It probably took you longer to get the 'replacement' out of the other BA11-K than it would have taken to fix the original thing... I am not that 'hot' on conservation, but I do believe in replacing as few parts as possible. And that means changing a capacitor or a 3-terminal regulator, or whatever, not a PCB. Please don't module-swap classic computers (this rant has been here before, you won't change my views on it, I've seen the unpleasant reuslts all too often!). > I also "tuned" the 785 supply - it was lagging around 13v. I assume > cranking it up to 15 is the right thing to do. Yes, if the reason for it being low was that you'd added extra loads. No, if the reason for it being low was component failure in the -15V brick. Asjustments rarely, if ever, drift. If some voltage is out of spec then there's a reason. If it's something you did -- like adding an extra load -- then yes, you use the adjustment. But if it's just gone down while the machine is in use, you need to find out why. A dried up capacitor in the brick probably. -tony From emu at ecubics.com Thu Mar 25 18:03:07 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4063733B.3080609@ecubics.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > > >>We have 1 vote for a VAX. >>I give 1 vote for a unamed 10/20 bit homebrew CPU. >> (Grumble all the good names have been taken) > > Yeah, a "New VAX" (VAX NT ? :) would be fun to have. > > Did anyone ever try to implement something like that in a > Transmeta Crusoe chip? There was a rumour that sombody is working on it. But that was already few years ago ... What about a new version of the PERQ ? Nice u-programmable, so the people could even have fun designing their own ISA ... cheers From aek at spies.com Thu Mar 25 18:13:44 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's Message-ID: <200403260013.i2Q0DiHV021933@spies.com> > What about a new version of the PERQ ? -- Great idea. Where's the software? From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Mar 25 18:10:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:33:57 GMT." Message-ID: <200403260010.i2Q0AMD25378@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: >Please don't module-swap classic >computers (this rant has been here before, you won't change my views on >it, I've seen the unpleasant reuslts all too often!). Interesting point. And the first time I've heard it. I'll check the archives... I'm don't disagree. (having said that, I am fan of having spares, getting the unit up and then going back and fixing the problem; I'd be curious to hear if that is seen as bad form or bad idea). I've had good luck swapping H744's and fixing them later, replenishing my "spares" box ;-) >> I also "tuned" the 785 supply - it was lagging around 13v. I assume >> cranking it up to 15 is the right thing to do. > >Yes, if the reason for it being low was that you'd added extra loads. No, >if the reason for it being low was component failure in the -15V brick. > >Asjustments rarely, if ever, drift. If some voltage is out of spec then >there's a reason. If it's something you did -- like adding an extra load >-- then yes, you use the adjustment. But if it's just gone down while the >machine is in use, you need to find out why. A dried up capacitor in the >brick probably. Excellent points. I don't know if the voltages have changed; I just noticed that when I first checked I only got 13v. Probably due to dry caps, as you pointed out. (time for that ESR meter :-) -brad From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 25 18:37:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Documentation request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Gene Buckle wrote: > Yes, the version I'm after is pre-ACOS. The sad thing about the docs on > Jason's site is they're corrupted just before the section I needed. > > Does your ACOS era info have any mention at all of the & commands? I'm not sure. I always shunned GBBS as software that allowed any loser to run a BBS but kept a copy anyway for reference :) It's buried in my Apple stuff. If you really want me to check I will but I won't be able to get to it right away. You'll probably have better luck posting a message to comp.sys.apple2. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 25 19:42:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage > device? wondering if any working examples have survived... I've got a fixed head disk drive...kinda sorta like a drum except it's a disk. There are plenty of drum storage drives in the museums, and probably at least a few in private hands. > I have a half-assed plan to try and find one from somewhere at some > point. We have a Sperry unit that's way beyond repair, and don't have > anything other than the drum assembly itself anyway (the bearings still > seem good though so I might see if it can be coaxed into spinning) - but > a working demonstration would be great hooked up to one of the 1960's > machines. You can try making one by experimenting with paper rolls and cassette tapes and heads. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Mar 25 19:55:49 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC Message-ID: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> I have just met an ex-DECer in the #ufo channel on the Undernet IRC network who claims to have seen UFOs over DEC. Needless to say, I was extremely intrigued, being both a ufologist and a great DEC fan, and I asked him for more. He told me it was in Colorado Springs around 1993-94. He said he couldn't remember the 3-character DEC facility code, but he said they were working on CD-ROMs there in a clean room when CD-ROMs were state of the art. He said the facility still exists today and has high security. I asked him if it went to HP and he said Quantum. So I immediately thought DLT and asked him if it was the facility where they made DLTs. He said yes. He said he worked on the tape drives himself, as well as on CD-ROMs. Now here are my questions for this list, to verify the story and to fill in missing details. * Were DLTs indeed made in Colorado Springs? DEC's tape business went to Quantum, didn't it? Did it go through Compaq or straight to Quantum from DEC? Does Quantum still own it? Or did HP snarf it from Quantum? I once visited Quantum in 2002 for a job interview (they were looking for someone to write firmware for a RAID array to emulate a tape library) and that was in Irvine, CA on the UCI campus. Is it just the headquarters, with actual DLT tape drive manufacturing in Colorado Springs? * If it is indeed in Colorado Springs, does anyone have any more information on that ex-DEC facility? Does anyone know of any government/CSS work done there? * This guy also mentioned CD-ROMs. He said they made the first DEC CD-ROMs there, in 1993-94 timeframe. I thought the first CD-ROM sold by DEC was RRD40 and was actually a Philips drive, wasn't it? The next was RRD42, which was actually made by Sony, right? Did DEC ever build CD-ROM drives themselves or did they all outsourced to Sony and such? If RRD40 and RRD42 were Philips/Sony, why did they need a clean room in Colorado Springs? Or was it the next one, RRD43? Was RRD43 also Sony or was it made by DEC itself? What was DEC's cutting edge CD-ROM drive in 1993-94? Did they make any CD-ROM drives at the same place where they made DLTs? It kinda makes sense that it would be the same group, "Tape and Optical Products" if I'm not mistaken, but just checking. Here are the relevant parts of my conversation with this guy from my IRC log: there were about 50 people that saw this on a clear blue day...during lunch to everyone's surprise...we all looked up and a huge cigar-shaped UFO was hovering over the building at about 200 feet overhead right over Digital it was very apparent that there seems to be a vested interesting from a higher source, in DEC interest, that is #ufo> VortexQ you still didn't say which DEC facility/group and when did it happen Msokolov> Colorado Springs #ufo> RB2 what do you mean? You mean DEC facility in Colorado Springs? #ufo> what time period? how long ago was it? That's what I understood from Vortex I have no idea, he didn't get to that yet :) #ufo> did he tell you what was his job at DEC? No, I didn't get anymore information than that. #ufo> I still wonder when did it happen #ufo> RB2 said it was in Colorado Springs, wasn't it? Can you tell me the DEC facility code? I know each DEC facility has a 3-letter code F***...what is the code? hmmm it has been a while #ufo> did you actually work at DEC? yes doi like people remember the stupid facility code for the rest of their lives...sheesh! I do not work there anymore duh #ufo> how long ago was it? well, hell they were working on cd roms in the clean rooms at the time #ufo> their computer technology was so marvelous that even aliens got interested! cd roms were fairly cutting edge back then I think the aliens were more interested in the research they had going on in the basement...Msokolov 1993-1994...somewhere around that time #ufo> thanks VortexQ, that's a much better date #ufo> more precise than "when making CD-ROMs" well, I have the flu...Msokolov...my thinking is a bit slow between tissues #ufo> VortexQ, I know the feeling, I hate flu too in fact...strange that you meantion them being shut down #ufo> why strange? I do not really believe they are...Mskovolov #ufo> well DEC was torn to bits and sold off to various nuts like Comfuq/HP #ufo> VAX was killed and buried after the craft started showing up...the whole facility seems to be very off limits secure now yeah...true #ufo> does it belong to HP now? that facility you worked in yes, I believe so...Quantum had it #ufo> so it didn't go with the rest of Digital to Compaq? It went to Quantum instead? #ufo> VortexQ, was it the facility where they made DLT tapes? #ufo> I know that part went to Quantum yes, Msokolov...why? Vortex do you have a degree ? no, I do not have a degree why? #ufo> I'm tracking it down, this may be of extreme importance to humanity is it necessary in order to be intelligent? Then how did you get a job at DEC Yes #ufo> you don't need a degree to be intelligent Yes you do #ufo> only to satisfy the assholes in HR department I have a year in electronics in college you could say I learn very quickly did einstein have a degree lol Yes about that too Msokolov I worked on the tape drives...I also worked in the clean room on cd rom drives...the very first ones going out #ufo> what CD-ROM drive was that? I thought both RRD40 and RRD42 were built outside and only badged by DEC the tape drives are used to backup data on the system...used as a backup for the server data #ufo> I know of course what tape drives are for #ufo> I'm a real geek of BIG computers, still run VAXen I have also worked as a computer operator in a computer room at a hospital...doing backups and monitoring of the servers and also micro fiche #ufo> cool #ufo> but still, what CD-ROM was it that they were building themselves in a clean room? #ufo> I thought RRD40 was Philips and RRD42 was Sony guess what, they left me all by myself and I had no problem at all handling the entire list of tasks the manager just hands me the list...shows me around and says...can you handle it? I said yes. #ufo> so what was the first CD-ROM drive built inside DEC itself? Was it RRD43? Or am I missing something? and I did it hell, I would have to dig out boxes for that information at this point I am more interested in holographic computer systems and crystalline data crystals at this point in time you'd be surprised what things are going on now That's all I have gleaned from this guy. I don't expect much help from this list with the UFO part, but at least I'm hoping someone can chime in on the parts having to do with the history of DEC and whatever Classic computing technology they were working on that was so marvelous that even the aliens got interested in it. MS P.S. A more complete IRC log is available on request. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 25 20:05:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <067801c412b6$224b6210$ce4d4a43@amscomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:49 AM 3/25/04 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? Ha, ha, ha, ha! Not on your life! I just paid $120 for one and considered myself lucky to get it that cheap. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 25 20:06:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040325210652.008a9c80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I passed up three of these in nice condition in a scrap yard lasst year. I'm STILL kicking myself! Joe At 10:35 PM 3/25/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage >device? wondering if any working examples have survived... > >I have a half-assed plan to try and find one from somewhere at some >point. We have a Sperry unit that's way beyond repair, and don't have >anything other than the drum assembly itself anyway (the bearings still >seem good though so I might see if it can be coaxed into spinning) - but >a working demonstration would be great hooked up to one of the 1960's >machines. > >I gather that telphone exchanges used to use them here in the UK so >maybe there are still a few lurking in private hands as they must have >been reasonably common at one point. The flipside of course being that >they're pretty bulky devices in themselves, and with the low reliability >they've maybe all gone to scrap years ago (unlike other peripherals of >the area which survived). > >cheers > >Jules > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 25 20:19:31 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001b01c412d8$c5d17150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > >Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, > that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? I have a 200LX and would never DREAM of parting with it. GREAT fun little computer. I've seen them hit around $150+ on ebay. I got mine free when I was an HP9000 distributor as a sales reward :) I love that LX almost as much as I love my 41C. My LX does have the dreaded hingecrack, I've tried several methods of repair, no real joy yet. I have quite a few flash cards from cisco routers and other devices, but NONE are recognized by the 200LX. Anyone have a flash card that works in a 200LX they would be willing to trade? Thanks! Jay West From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Mar 25 20:32:25 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40639639.1040505@jcwren.com> Joe R. wrote: >At 11:49 AM 3/25/04 -0500, you wrote: > > >>Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, >> >> >that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? > >Ha, ha, ha, ha! Not on your life! I just paid $120 for one and considered >myself lucky to get it that cheap. > > Joe > > You'll hate this, then. I picked up a 200LX at a hamfest for $10. The guy said he'd take $5, but I just felt bad about that. Picked up a couple 128MB Sandisk Flash cards off of eBay for $15 ea. Found a serial and power kit for about $20. Thinking about having the backlight, speed mod, and memory mod done to it. No, it's not for sale. Not yet. --jc From aek at spies.com Thu Mar 25 20:38:07 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC Message-ID: <200403260238.i2Q2c7AH017616@spies.com> I'm hoping someone can chime in on the parts having to do with the history of DEC and whatever Classic computing technology they were working on that was so marvelous that even the aliens got interested in it. -- They came back to retreive Richie Lary From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 25 21:26:19 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Documentation request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Does your ACOS era info have any mention at all of the & commands? > > I'm not sure. I always shunned GBBS as software that allowed any loser to > run a BBS but kept a copy anyway for reference :) > That's like not liking the Macintosh because it allows any idiot to use a computer....Oh wait. Nevermind. :) > You'll probably have better luck posting a message to comp.sys.apple2. > I was hoping to avoid that. Oh well. g. From rickb at bensene.com Thu Mar 25 22:04:43 2004 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <000701c412ba$eba20f20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000001c412e7$782b1050$030aa8c0@bensene.com> > Weren't those two 1950's "desk calculators" that were > anounced here drum based? > There were a number of electronic 'desk' (meaning the 'size of a desk') calculators that were developed in the late '50's and early '60's. These included the IBM 610 "Autopoint", the Monroe Monrobot I, II, and III, the Clary DE-60, and others that I can't recall off the top of my head. These machines were generally programmable in some, generally by storing learned steps (learn mode programming) on the drum or paper tape. All had magnetic drums for storage of working registers, and, in the case of the IBM 610, the drum also stored program steps. These machines all utilized tube or early transistor electronics, and generally interfaced to punched card or paper tape units, and IBM output typewriters or Friden Flexowriters for output. These machines were the precursors to desktop-sized programmable calculators such as the Mathatronics Mathatron, Olivetti Programma 101, Wang LOCI and 300-series, Monroe EPIC 2000/3000, Friden 1152, Wyle Scientific, and the HP 9100A. In the late 1960's, SCM made a machine called the 7816 that used a fixed-head magnetic disk for register storage. It was a four function calculator in a 'desk' that had two paper tape readers, two paper tape punches, an I/O typewriter, and a calculating unit that was programmable via the paper tape readers. It used transistor logic, and a bit-serial architecture. From yakowenk at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 22:34:31 2004 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: WD1793 read-track weirdness Message-ID: <20040326043431.60751.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Hey all, Has anybody out there written drivers for the WD1793 floppy disk controller chip? I've been doing that for fun, and have hit on a very strange problem with the 'read track' command. It seems to work just fine, returning a stream of bytes that includes the data for each sector, until it finds a byte with a value of $29 (or 29H, if you prefer). From that point up to the next address mark, it gets garbled data. No other data value seems to have any odd effect. 'Read sector' returns the right data with no weirdness. It is extremely consistent; using read-sector and write-sector, I can add/move/remove bytes with that value, and get the same result every time: read-track returns garbled from the $29 up to the next address mark. At first I thought it was just losing synchronization, because the address mark (at which it synchronizes) puts it back on track. But the garbling seems weirder than just out-of-sync. After the $29 byte, it seems to be OR-ing the byte with itself shifted right one bit, and then inverting that. More precisely, it seems to be doing something like this (in 'C' notation): found_29 = 0; while ( /* whatever */ ) { input = get_input(); // input from disk if ( got_address_mark() ) found_29 = 0; if (found_29) { carry = (prev_input & 1) << 7; output( ~ ( input | carry | (input>>1) ) ); } else if (input == 0x29) { found_29 = 1; output( 0x14 ); continue; } else { output( input ); } prev_input = input; } In case it's relevant, it is a Radio Shack Color Computer 2, with a standard controller cartridge. (The label has wandered off, so I'm not sure whether it is the older or newer model of controller.) I don't suppose anyone would care to venture an explanation? Anyone? Anyone? .... Cheers, Bill. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 25 22:38:53 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: replacing +15v regulator on BA-11? In-Reply-To: <200403260010.i2Q0AMD25378@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 25, 4 07:10:22 pm Message-ID: > > > Tony Duell wrote: > >Please don't module-swap classic > >computers (this rant has been here before, you won't change my views on > >it, I've seen the unpleasant reuslts all too often!). > > Interesting point. And the first time I've heard it. I'll check the > archives... I'm don't disagree. > > (having said that, I am fan of having spares, getting the unit up and > then going back and fixing the problem; I'd be curious to hear if that > is seen as bad form or bad idea). There are many reasons why module swapping is a bad idea. The main one is that in a lot of cases you don't _know_ what the fault was, so you don't know you've fixed it. This particularly applies to intermittant faults. Then of course there's the issue of what happens if the module was damaged by a fault elsewhere in the computer (e.g. a short circuit on one part is killing a PSU regulator under particular circumstances). And the issue of revision levels (do you know the replacement module will work correctly with all others in the machine?) (Spent hours tracing a 'fault' caused by this -- it turned out that the later revision module needed a couple of extra wires on the backplane...) Perhaps the most nasty situation is that : You have some signal between Module A and Module B. There's a fault on A, so that the timing of this signal gets out of spec. For some reason you replace B first, and the replacement is more tolerant of bad timing. The machine works again. But the timing continues to drift, and eventually the machine fails again. I have actually seen this one happen. > I've had good luck swapping H744's and fixing them later, replenishing my > "spares" box ;-) Thing is, they may not end up in the machine they were originally used in (this is certainly the case round here, I've got half a dozen machines using that brick!) and thus you've changed more than you have to in that machine... > >Asjustments rarely, if ever, drift. If some voltage is out of spec then > >there's a reason. If it's something you did -- like adding an extra load > >-- then yes, you use the adjustment. But if it's just gone down while the > >machine is in use, you need to find out why. A dried up capacitor in the > >brick probably. > > Excellent points. I don't know if the voltages have changed; I just > noticed that when I first checked I only got 13v. Probably due to dry > caps, as you pointed out. What I'd do here is tweak it back to 15V (Assuming this is possible and that the preset is not hard against the stop) and then keep an eye on that voltage. If it starts getting low again, you know there's a problem.. > > (time for that ESR meter :-) Indeed. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 25 22:41:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <200403260013.i2Q0DiHV021933@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Mar 25, 4 04:13:44 pm Message-ID: > > > > > > What about a new version of the PERQ ? > > -- > > Great idea. Where's the software? People on this list certainly have POS (including the pascal compiler and microcode assembler), PNX (PERQ uniz, including C), and Accent (I can't remember what languages are around for that). Be warned that the PERQ is not a totally trivial machine to emulate, even with the extensive documentation that exists. The CPU does a few unconventional things, and the I/O system is Z80 based. PERQ 2s allow you to run user programs on this Z80, so essentially you have to emulate the equivalent of a home micro as well... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 25 22:47:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 25, 4 05:42:43 pm Message-ID: > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage > > device? wondering if any working examples have survived... > > I've got a fixed head disk drive...kinda sorta like a drum except it's a The big difference is that the disk has flying heads which essentially set their own working clearance, the drum has haads fixed to the chassis (which are adjustable for running height when the drum is set up). You need a pretty low run-out in a drum's bearings. Incidnetally, I have a graphics display for a PDP11 using a fixed head disk. The disk rotates once per video frame (or maybe field, I forget). The video data is recorded using analogue FM recording on a track of the disk -- 3 tracks for R,G,B, and you can switch heads to switch between images. There's some electronics to DMA data from the PDP11's memory (it connects to a DR11-B interface), feed it into a DAC and FM modulator, and record it on the disk. > > seem good though so I might see if it can be coaxed into spinning) - but > > a working demonstration would be great hooked up to one of the 1960's > > machines. > > You can try making one by experimenting with paper rolls and cassette > tapes and heads. It's not hard to do this if you don't mind the head touching the media (tape) as it does in a cassette recorder, but the life of the tape is probably too short to use for serious data storage if you do this -tony From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 25 22:57:40 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > C'mon.... build a replica kit for a system that most of us DONT have, and > probably never will get. In hindsight, an impossible wish might be a blinkenlights version of an first generation AS/400. > Lots of us have vaxen, lots of us have PDP's... but I'd venture few of us > will ever touch a 360 these days. So lets build the one we'll probably never > get a real one of! I am still quite suprised one has not shown up on Ebay yet. Fer cryin' out loud, IBM made a lot of 'em... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bear at typewritten.org Thu Mar 25 22:54:56 2004 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Looking for old Apollo keyboard for DN300 Message-ID: Howdy. That pretty much sums it up. I have a need for a keyboard and mouse for an Apollo DN300. It seems to have some sort of RJ11-type connector for the keyboard. The mouse probably plugs into the keyboard. Note that this does NOT seem to be the newer Apollo DOMAIN keyboard with the DIN-type connector. Hopefully somebody out there can help. ok bear From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 25 22:58:47 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40639639.1040505@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <006201c412ef$06008e80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sure would be nice to boot up something like pico FreeBSD on my 200LX :) But alas that still requires 8mb and 386 :\ Jay From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Mar 25 23:43:31 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <000b01c412f5$45a7aa40$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> would be nice even to have a non working one to display in the museum here! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: working magnetic drum stores? > > Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage > device? wondering if any working examples have survived... > > I have a half-assed plan to try and find one from somewhere at some > point. We have a Sperry unit that's way beyond repair, and don't have > anything other than the drum assembly itself anyway (the bearings still > seem good though so I might see if it can be coaxed into spinning) - but > a working demonstration would be great hooked up to one of the 1960's > machines. > > I gather that telphone exchanges used to use them here in the UK so > maybe there are still a few lurking in private hands as they must have > been reasonably common at one point. The flipside of course being that > they're pretty bulky devices in themselves, and with the low reliability > they've maybe all gone to scrap years ago (unlike other peripherals of > the area which survived). > > cheers > > Jules > > > From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Mar 26 00:11:19 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <001b01c412d8$c5d17150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001b01c412d8$c5d17150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040326061119.GA14945@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 08:19:31PM -0600, Jay West wrote: > > >Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying > around, > > that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? > > I have a 200LX and would never DREAM of parting with it. GREAT fun little > computer. I've seen them hit around $150+ on ebay. I got mine free when I > was an HP9000 distributor as a sales reward :) I love that LX almost as much > as I love my 41C. My LX does have the dreaded hingecrack, I've tried several > methods of repair, no real joy yet. > > I have quite a few flash cards from cisco routers and other devices, but > NONE are recognized by the 200LX. Anyone have a flash card that works in a > 200LX they would be willing to trade? If your flashcards came out of routers and are not recognized by the HP 200LX, than they are most likely "linear flash" cards. Those cards are accessed by memory mapping and are also used in the Newton family of handhelds (although any Newton user will shun linear flash cards coming from routers as those tend to be "worn out" (near the end of their maximum read/write cycles and therefore likely to fail) because routers write them a lot). The HP200LX can, however, use PCMCIA flashcards with an IDE block device interface. Those exist, but they tend to come in small sizes and only used. If you want a lot of storage for the little fellow for a good price, use CompactFlash cards. Yes, the HP200LX can use those ones perfectly, all you need is a CompactFlash-to-PCMCIA adapter, which is rather cheap since it is just a handfull of sheet metal, plastic and wires, no electronics. Currently I'm running my trusty old HP200LX with a 256 MB "harddisk" - a 256 MB CompactFlash card in a CompactFlash-to-PCMCIA adapter. It's really nice to have the complete set of RFCs, several developer tools (C compiler, Pascal compiler, Lisp interpreters, editors ...), a few books in plain text format and some more stuff in your pocket - and still a lot of disk space left ;-) Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Mar 26 01:15:50 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <003201c41234$548ad300$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <003201c41234$548ad300$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <20040326021550.3deb1d24.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:42:23 -0000 "Andy Holt" wrote: > > > Lots of us have vaxen, lots of us have PDP's... but I'd venture few of us > > will ever touch a 360 these days. So lets build the one we'll > > probably never > > get a real one of! > > > Multics (!) - or any of the GE600 famility (-> Honeywell 600 -> Honeywell > 6000 -> Level 66/Level 68) > or, for the truly nostalgic CS theorists, B5500 and successors > > Atlas - the origin of virtual memory (and, hey, it wouldn't be difficult to > make more replicas than there were originals!) > > The IBM 650, so we can follow in Knuth's path. (my father programmed on the 650 back in about 1960) From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Mar 26 01:21:52 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <00d601c41220$824e4ec0$0500fea9@game> References: <2552.65.123.179.131.1080102887.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <3.0.6.32.20040324074626.00882b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <002701c411a5$35c8bac0$0500fea9@game> <1052.65.123.179.155.1080160148.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <00d601c41220$824e4ec0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040326022152.4e09f456.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:20:29 -0500 "Teo Zenios" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM > > > > I have enough to populate all my 2091 boards, but I'll look. I do have > > the VGA cards with the ram soldered in, but I'm sure you don't want to go > > through the hassles of desoldering them. > > > > Gary Hildebrand > > > > > > > Any chance you could part with 16 of them? > > > > > > I only had 2 here (from an old vga card) and those ended up in my > Diamond > > > ISA video card (tseng et4000ax) used in my 386/40 old dos game rig. > > > 99% of the computers I deal with use either proprietary memory SIMMs or > > > standard 30 pin SIMMs and up, so I haven't needed to source loose drams > > > before. > > > > > > Teo > > > > > > Desoldering ram chips is more effort then its worth. > > I used to do it all the time, out in the back yard with a propane torch. It works really well, once you get fast at it. You have to wear a mask because the fumes are nasty. The old days of recovering tons of 64kx1 or 256Kx1 chips that way are long gone, though. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 26 01:31:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: WD1793 read-track weirdness In-Reply-To: <20040326043431.60751.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Has anybody out there written drivers for the WD1793 floppy > disk controller chip? I've been doing that for fun, and have > hit on a very strange problem with the 'read track' command. > It seems to work just fine, returning a stream of bytes that > includes the data for each sector, until it finds a byte with > a value of $29 (or 29H, if you prefer). From that point up > to the next address mark, it gets garbled data. No other data > value seems to have any odd effect. 'Read sector' returns > the right data with no weirdness. Are you sure it's not a matter of a bad sector on the disk? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Mar 25 15:50:41 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <16483.15423.874987.958070@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <16482.60484.774407.212122@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040325202644.11124cda.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <16483.15423.874987.958070@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040325225041.11f29435.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:08:31 -0500 Paul Koning wrote: > Jochen> Why build a replica when you can have The Real Thing: > Jochen> http://www.cray-cyber.org/ -- > Sure, that's neat. But I don't have it -- John Z does... You can log into it via the Internet. Be glad you don't own this machine, 400 V three phase power and 130 A start up current... > People have built Cyber replicas out of FPGAs; it doesn't seem all > that hard. There is the book "Design of a Computer, The Control Data 6600". It states somewhere that the machine was build out of 400.000 transistors. So it seems quite possible to reimplement it in FPGAs. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Mar 26 02:49:57 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <20040326061119.GA14945@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001b01c412d8$c5d17150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040326061119.GA14945@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <20040326084957.GA22084@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 07:11:19AM +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > The HP200LX can, however, use PCMCIA flashcards with an IDE block device > interface. Those exist, but they tend to come in small sizes and only > used. A couple years ago, I picked up a small stack of 4MB and 20MB CF cards for a few $$$ each. I use the 4MB cards as "floppy replacements" with IDE adapter frames for router-like boxes, but the principle is the same. > If you want a lot of storage for the little fellow for a good > price, use CompactFlash cards. Yes, the HP200LX can use those ones > perfectly, all you need is a CompactFlash-to-PCMCIA adapter, which is > rather cheap since it is just a handfull of sheet metal, plastic and > wires, no electronics. I have found new CF adapters for as little as $6 w/shipping. It's also possible to find 4MB PCMCIA Flash cards, but probably not as cheaply as a larger CF card + adapter, just because they are less common. I've been using these with everything from Intel Linux boxes to cameras to my SBC6120. CF cards are fun to play with. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Mar-2004 08:41 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.7 F (-62.6 C) Windchill -127.6 F (-88.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10 kts Grid 053 Barometer 678.6 mb (10679. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 26 03:39:28 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040326103928.31b309dc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:35:08 +0000 Jules Richardson wrote: > Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage > device? wondering if any working examples have survived... There is a Zuse Z23 from the 50's in Karlsruhe / Germany. It is a serial architecture, tube based machine with core memory for the working registers and two drums for main storage. It is still in working condition! -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 26 05:43:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <20040326103928.31b309dc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040326103928.31b309dc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 10:39:28AM +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > There is a Zuse Z23 from the 50's in Karlsruhe / Germany. Correction, it is a Z22: http://pl.attitu.de/zuse/Welcome.html -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 26 06:08:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <001b01c412d8$c5d17150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040326070858.0084c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:19 PM 3/25/04 -0600, you wrote: >> >Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying >around, >> that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? > >I have a 200LX and would never DREAM of parting with it. GREAT fun little >computer. I've seen them hit around $150+ on ebay. I got mine free when I >was an HP9000 distributor as a sales reward :) I love that LX almost as much >as I love my 41C. My LX does have the dreaded hingecrack, I've tried several >methods of repair, no real joy yet. That's a common problem in them and AFIK no ones ever found a way to fix them except to replace the case. :-( Joe > >I have quite a few flash cards from cisco routers and other devices, but >NONE are recognized by the 200LX. Anyone have a flash card that works in a >200LX they would be willing to trade? > >Thanks! >Jay West > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 26 06:21:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <40639639.1040505@jcwren.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040326072154.00893d00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:32 PM 3/25/04 -0500, "J.C. Wren" wrote: >Joe R. wrote: > >>At 11:49 AM 3/25/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>>Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, >>> >>> >>that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? >> >>Ha, ha, ha, ha! Not on your life! I just paid $120 for one and considered >>myself lucky to get it that cheap. >> >> Joe >> >> > You'll hate this, then. I picked up a 200LX at a hamfest for $10. You'll hate this even more! I got a HP 100LX and a HP-67 included for free :-) No, none of them are for sale. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 26 07:05:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040326070858.0084c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005601c41332$f9a3a340$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> OH my! Was up late googling and found that there is a version of Unix that's been ported to the 200LX. Minix. Woohoo! Now maybe it will support a parallel port zircom ethernet adapter.... wireless would be best but not sure you could hook up any known wireless device to it and still keep the needed flash disk space. Nifty! Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 26 07:09:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040326070858.0084c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005a01c41333$89cab6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > That's a common problem in them and AFIK no ones ever found a way to fix > them except to replace the case. :-( See http://www.striegels.com/alan/HPLX/hpcrack.htm From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 26 08:13:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC References: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <16484.14968.847000.121332@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sokolov writes: Michael> * Were DLTs indeed made in Colorado Springs? As far as I know they were designed in SHR (Shrewsbury, Mass.). Where the manufacturing facility was I have no idea. Michael> * If it is indeed in Colorado Springs, does anyone have any Michael> more information on that ex-DEC facility? Does anyone know Michael> of any government/CSS work done there? Michael> * This guy also mentioned CD-ROMs. He said they made the Michael> first DEC CD-ROMs there, in 1993-94 timeframe. I thought Michael> the first CD-ROM sold by DEC was RRD40 and was actually a Michael> Philips drive, wasn't it? The next was RRD42, which was Michael> actually made by Sony, right? Did DEC ever build CD-ROM Michael> drives themselves or did they all outsourced to Sony and Michael> such? If RRD40 and RRD42 were Philips/Sony, why did they Michael> need a clean room in Colorado Springs? Or was it the next Michael> one, RRD43? Was RRD43 also Sony or was it made by DEC Michael> itself? What was DEC's cutting edge CD-ROM drive in Michael> 1993-94? Did they make any CD-ROM drives at the same place Michael> where they made DLTs? It kinda makes sense that it would be Michael> the same group, "Tape and Optical Products" if I'm not Michael> mistaken, but just checking. Storage was in several places... and DEC often did manufacturing in random places in the world. I don't remember whether DEC ever made CDROM drives. But there's an interesting story I remember -- way back in the early days of CDROMs, I heard that DEC was planning to build a CD factory (to make the disks, not the drives). That was so they could make the media in volume. The plan at the time was to put CDROM drives into every VAX and put all the software on one CDROM. (Back then software was small enough that you could do this...). Apparently, this is why License Manager was invented. I don't remember the date for this anymore -- it seems to me it would have been somewhere around 1985. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Mar 26 08:28:55 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: tu58 carts for 730 on ebay In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:43:36 +0100." <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200403261428.i2QEStM30525@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi, Someone's selling tu58 carts (a.k.a. "dectape II") for a 730 on ebay. http://search.stores.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=DEC&srchdesc=y&sid=3068971&store=SURPLUSPLUS&colorid=4&fp=0&st=1&submit=Search I snapped up the diag tape. There doesn't appear to be a boot tape. The other tapes I don't know about. For example, what's a "vax 11 hardcore" tape? (sounds like something I'd want to *watch* :-) Does that somehow turn on pdp-11 emulation? And is the "microdiag" tape useful? The cluster exercisor does not seem useful (I can't imagine a cluster of 730's :-) If anyone else buys these, please let me know - I'd like to scan them into disk files. -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Mar 26 08:37:00 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: tu58 carts for 730 on ebay References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200403261428.i2QEStM30525@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16484.16396.884996.73678@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> For example, what's a "vax 11 hardcore" tape? (sounds like Brad> something I'd want to *watch* :-) Does that somehow turn on Brad> pdp-11 emulation? I wouldn't think so. "hardcore" describes a class of diagnostics, I think the most basic ones. If your system seems completely dead, see if the hardcore diagnostics run. If those do, the CPU is at least somewhat sane; you can then take it further. Brad> And is the "microdiag" tape useful? If you think you have broken 2901s, I suppose so. paul From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Fri Mar 26 09:12:21 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX Message-ID: J West wrote: >I have quite a few flash cards from cisco routers and other devices, but >NONE are recognized by the 200LX. Anyone have a flash card that works in a >200LX they would be willing to trade? SanDisk SDP3B series PCMCIA flash cards work in the HP 200LX -- I have an 85MB one -- and are fairly common and inexpensive on eBay. You can also get a CF card and an adapter. On cards larger than 512MB, you might need the ACECARD driver, available from SUPER (http://www.palmtop.net/super.html). Bob _________________________________________________________________ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. https://broadband.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Fri Mar 26 09:23:08 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX Message-ID: Andrew: Michel Bel in France often has broken/part LX's for sale. You can contact him through the HPLX mailing list (http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~mchem1/HPLX.shtml). You will probably have trouble finding a 200LX for $50, though, since for $125 you can get a broken one (even a broken LCD) fixed at Thadeus and working ones are going for $150+ on eBay now. The average prices are down a bit now from a year ago. If you are patient, you can get one for <$150. I paid about $115 for mine a few years ago, when the average price was more like $300. Bob Message: 10 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:49:05 -0500 From: "Andrew Strouse" Subject: HP 200LX To: Message-ID: <067801c412b6$224b6210$ce4d4a43@amscomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? They seem to be selling for far too much on e-bay. I don't really need any of the extra things that are included in all these auctions, memory cards, adapters for this and that, modems, or manuals. I would just like the unit. Thanks in advance for any leads anyone can provide. Andrew Strouse _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Mar 26 09:56:29 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > > Just out of curiousity, does anyone still have a working drum storage > > > device? wondering if any working examples have survived... > > > > I've got a fixed head disk drive...kinda sorta like a drum except it's a > > The big difference is that the disk has flying heads which essentially > set their own working clearance, the drum has haads fixed to the chassis > (which are adjustable for running height when the drum is set up). You > need a pretty low run-out in a drum's bearings. Actually some drums have flying heads, Bryant at one time had drums with flying heads and a slightly conical drum, so that the drum could be lifted to approach the heads when the drum was up to "flying" speed... Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 26 09:58:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <005a01c41333$89cab6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > > That's a common problem in them and AFIK no ones ever found a way to > fix > > them except to replace the case. :-( > See http://www.striegels.com/alan/HPLX/hpcrack.htm Hey, that (brass strip) is the perfect solution for a busted door handle I'm trying to repair! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Mar 26 10:17:55 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: Need help with pickup - London UK (Camden) Message-ID: Hi All, I have to arrange for some stuff to be picked up, but cant make it the next few weeks (on my way to the U.S. again..) .. could someone close to, or in London (Camden area) help me out by grabbing it so I can come pick it up later? Pse reply off-list, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From lcourtney at mvista.com Fri Mar 26 10:31:34 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: 360 Revolution - A 40th anniversary celebration and inside look at the $5 billion bet that changed computing and business forever. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: YOU ARE INVITED TO A FASCINATING MILESTONE EVENT... "360 REVOLUTION" Computer pioneers and National Medal of Technology awardees Erich Bloch, Fred Brooks, Jr. and Bob Evans, current IBM technology chief Nick Donofrio and the Computer History Museum cordially invite you to a conversation about the extraordinary System/360 project. Heralded by Fortune Magazine in 1965 as the "$5,000,000,00 Gamble," the System/360, launched on April 7, 1964, created a compatible computer family that helped revolutionize the computer industry. This event, hosted by the Computer History Museum and sponsored by IBM, provides a behind-the-scenes view of the tough decisions made by some of the people who made them. Learn how the System/360 helped transform the government, science and commercial landscape. The event will be held on April 7, 2004 at the Computer History Museum, 1401 N. Shoreline Boulevard, Mountain View, California. A 6:00 PM member reception will be followed by the program at 7:00 PM. Admission is free but advance reservations are required. Please RSVP by March 31, 2004. For more information and to register on-line, please go to http://www.computerhistory.org/ibmS360_04072004 or call 650 810 1019. Computer History Museum 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd. Mountain View, CA 94043 (650) 810-1019 Phone (650) 810-1010 Main Line (650) 810-1055 Fax URL: http://www.computerhistory.org/ -- From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 26 10:38:20 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: WD1793 read-track weirdness In-Reply-To: <20040326043431.60751.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1gb8ydp.1ckxupb1r1vs1qM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Has anybody out there written drivers for the WD1793 floppy > disk controller chip? About a year ago I also investigated the Read Track command using my CoCo floppy controller. My hardware was a CoCo 3, with a FD501 disk controller (it contains a WD1773). I didn't examine the data as closly as you have, because I kept getting lost data errors. I am interested in seeing your code. I can also do some tests here if you like. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com Bright From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Mar 26 10:44:55 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: WD1793 read-track weirdness In-Reply-To: <20040326043431.60751.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040326113524.04fd5f80@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Bill Yakowenko may have mentioned these words: [snip] >In case it's relevant, it is a Radio Shack Color Computer 2, >with a standard controller cartridge. (The label has wandered >off, so I'm not sure whether it is the older or newer model of >controller.) If I'm not mistaken, the 1793 was used in the original version of the controller - the 1773 was used in the later controllers. I believe (one of the) fundamental difference(s) between the 2 are the 1773 does not require a 12V line, and most CoCo2's & all CoCo3's don't supply 12V on the cartridge port. IIRC, to use an original 1793-based cart on a non-12V-supplying CoCo, you need to use a Multi-Pak interface, which does supply 12V to the carts. This is all conjecture & speculation, however, as I've never used an older 12V-requiring disk interface... (I may *have* a few, but I could never afford floppy drives until the FD-500 came out, which is a shorty-5V only controller). The only "drivers" I ever wrote for that beastie were data-conversion proggies to read a raw drive in Basic09 & read some foreign formats & filetypes... I once wrote a "Dual-Format" floppy program to xfer files from OS-9 to RSDOS -> I can tell you that the timing used for lowlevel formatting on the floppy was *very* lax in RS-DOS compared to OS-9... To get it to work at all, I had to LL format a disk in OS-9, then HL format only tracks 0-16, then I had a program to write a custom GAT on Track 17 for RS-DOS, saying only tracks 18+ were accessible to RS-DOS. I then had a program which could copy a file from the RS-DOS "partition" to the OS-9 "partition" and back... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 26 10:46:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:22 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC References: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <16484.14968.847000.121332@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <016001c41351$db84aac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > the first CD-ROM sold by DEC was RRD40 and was > actually a Philips drive, wasn't it? DEC _sold_ a Phillips CDROM drive as far back as 1985/6. I'm pretty sure that that first product preceeded even the RRD40. > DEC's tape business went to Quantum, didn't it? My pocket guide to DEC history says this: "DEC sells storage business (incl. DLT) to Quantum." -- Forbes 01-Dec-1997 Note that CDROMs were getting pretty pedestrian by _1993_ IMHO, something else had to be happening in research by then, maybe CD (re)writing. John A From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Mar 26 07:46:26 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <1080308785.2045.13.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 20:55, Michael Sokolov wrote: > * Were DLTs indeed made in Colorado Springs? DEC's tape business went to > Quantum, didn't it? Did it go through Compaq or straight to Quantum from DEC? > Does Quantum still own it? Or did HP snarf it from Quantum? I once visited > Quantum in 2002 for a job interview (they were looking for someone to write > firmware for a RAID array to emulate a tape library) and that was in Irvine, CA > on the UCI campus. Is it just the headquarters, with actual DLT tape drive > manufacturing in Colorado Springs? > > * If it is indeed in Colorado Springs, does anyone have any more information on > that ex-DEC facility? Does anyone know of any government/CSS work done there? DLT's were in fact made in Colorado Springs. All the ones with a CX as the first two letters in the serial number were made in Colorado Springs. Quantum bought the DLT tech straight from DEC years before Compaq bought DEC. Quantum still owns it. The SDLT line is directly descended from DEC technology. HP is making LTO drives, which are unrelated to DLT. What you were interviewing for became the DX-30 and DX-100 series of "Enhanced Backup Solution" products. See www.quantum.com for more info. The Irvine facility was originally ATL Products, bought by Quantum and became Quantum/ATL, then Quantum made it a division and called it the Data Protection Division, then Storage Solutions Group, and now Storage Systems. Quantum's headquarters was in Milpitas for a number of years, but was recently moved to San Jose. The ex-DEC Colorado Springs facility is still owned and operated by Quantum. I know of no government work done there, in the past or currently. Quantum does sell and service tape drives and tape libraries to various government agencies, as well as other companies. All DLT and SDLT drives are manufactured by Quantum (except when they were made by DEC). If it says it's a Compaq, or Dell, or Sun, or whoever, it was still made by Quantum. TTFN Andrew From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Mar 26 08:01:14 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <067801c412b6$224b6210$ce4d4a43@amscomputer> References: <067801c412b6$224b6210$ce4d4a43@amscomputer> Message-ID: <1080309673.2045.16.camel@localhost> Thaddeus' used handhelds website. Fixing one costs $129 though... http://www.usedhandhelds.com/ I also use SanDisk compact flash cards in my 1000CX. It's quite the handy tool. :) TTFN Andrew On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 11:49, Andrew Strouse wrote: > Does anyone have an extra working/possibly repairable 200LX laying around, that they would be willing to part with for $50 or less? They seem to be selling for far too much on e-bay. I don't really need any of the extra things that are included in all these auctions, memory cards, adapters for this and that, modems, or manuals. I would just like the unit. Thanks in advance for any leads anyone can provide. > > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 26 11:23:05 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <016001c41351$db84aac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Mar 26, 2004 11:46:15 AM Message-ID: <20040326172305.6528C801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > the first CD-ROM sold by DEC was RRD40 and was > > actually a Philips drive, wasn't it? > > DEC _sold_ a Phillips CDROM drive as far back as 1985/6. > I'm pretty sure that that first product preceeded even the RRD40. That would be the RRD50. The RRD40 was also a Phillips drive. The SCSI RRD40 had an internal converter. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Mar 26 11:25:43 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <016001c41351$db84aac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, John Allain wrote: > > the first CD-ROM sold by DEC was RRD40 and was > > actually a Philips drive, wasn't it? > > DEC _sold_ a Phillips CDROM drive as far back as 1985/6. > I'm pretty sure that that first product preceeded even the RRD40. Yes, that was a Philips CM105/110. I have two. > My pocket guide to DEC history says this: > "DEC sells storage business (incl. DLT) to Quantum." They indeed sold the disks *and* tape (dlt) biz. Dunno if they sold the disks to Quantum as well as they did the tapes. Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 26 11:43:55 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC References: Message-ID: <01f101c41359$e94448c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> DEC _sold_ a Phillips CDROM drive as far back as 1985/6. >> I'm pretty sure that that first product preceeded even the RRD40. Eric> That would be the RRD50. Fred> Yes, that was a Philips CM105/110. I have two. Hi Fred, Eric, The DEC version of the CM10x (which I don't have) had a customized frontpanel, but from what you say it may have been internally the same...? I have a CM100 and a DEC M7552-PA KRQ50 controller, which is supposedly RRD50 compatible. Sounds like I can connect them up? John A. From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Fri Mar 26 11:48:51 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: WD1793 read-track weirdness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > > > Has anybody out there written drivers for the WD1793 floppy > > disk controller chip? I've been doing that for fun, and have > > hit on a very strange problem with the 'read track' command. > > It seems to work just fine, returning a stream of bytes that > > includes the data for each sector, until it finds a byte with > > a value of $29 (or 29H, if you prefer). From that point up > > to the next address mark, it gets garbled data. No other data > > value seems to have any odd effect. 'Read sector' returns > > the right data with no weirdness. > > Are you sure it's not a matter of a bad sector on the disk? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival Bill, Sellam's point would be my first guess as well. Are you checking the status register after the read to see if any errors were flagged during the operation? You didn't explicitly say that the event happens on ANY track or sector containing a $29... are you seeing this behavior on one sector, or all over the disk? --Patrick From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Mar 26 11:58:35 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403261758.MAA70047@smtp.9netave.com> #ufo> RB2 said it was in Colorado Springs, wasn't it? Can you tell me the DEC facility code? I know each DEC facility has a 3-letter code F***...what is the code? hmmm it has been a while #ufo> did you actually work at DEC? yes doi like people remember the stupid facility code for the rest of their lives...sheesh! I do not work there anymore duh #ufo> how long ago was it? well, hell I don't know -- I'm a little skeptical of this report. I don't necessarily have a better memory than the next guy, but the DEC facility codes were pretty easy to remember. I still recall most of the ones I spent any time in and I started with DEC in 1984. Anyone remember BTH (Behind The Hilton) in Merrimack? -- Tony From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 26 12:39:24 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <01f101c41359$e94448c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Mar 26, 2004 12:43:55 PM Message-ID: <20040326183924.0754F7F81@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> DEC _sold_ a Phillips CDROM drive as far back as 1985/6. > >> I'm pretty sure that that first product preceeded even the RRD40. > > Eric> That would be the RRD50. > Fred> Yes, that was a Philips CM105/110. I have two. > > Hi Fred, Eric, > The DEC version of the CM10x (which I don't have) had a > customized frontpanel, but from what you say it may have been > internally the same...? > I have a CM100 and a DEC M7552-PA KRQ50 controller, > which is supposedly RRD50 compatible. > Sounds like I can connect them up? I would think it would work, but I can offer no guarantees. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Mar 26 14:28:18 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP workdstations free to good home (Kansas) Message-ID: <20040326.122819.336.12.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Anybody want a few HP workstations? I have a few 9000/735's (two of which should be working) and a bunch of 9000/c110 machines (stripped, no memory, no drives). I also have an IBM monitor that will work with the 735's. Free to a good home, the only catch is that you'll have to pick them up from Wichita, KS. I'd like to dispose of the entire lot in one go if I can. Otherwise, they'll be melted. If you have any questions, e-mail me off-list and I'll try to answer them . . .. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 26 15:23:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP workdstations free to good home (Kansas) References: <20040326.122819.336.12.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <002401c41378$98db7920$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Jeff wrote.... > Anybody want a few HP workstations? > I have a few 9000/735's (two of which should be working) > and a bunch of 9000/c110 machines (stripped, no memory, > no drives). If anyone does wind up getting the C110's, I'm fairly certain I have a bunch of 32mb memory panels that will work in the c110. Jay From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Mar 26 16:30:19 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <16484.14968.847000.121332@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001e01c41381$eb8cd200$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I don't remember whether DEC ever made CDROM drives. But I can't think of any they did make: the RRD50 and RRD40 were rebadged Philips drives, the RRD42-RRD46 were (I think) all Sony. I don't recall there ever being an RRD41. > so they could make the media in volume. The plan at the time > was to put CDROM drives into every VAX and put all the > software on one CDROM. (Back then software was small enough > that you could do this...). Apparently, this is why License > Manager was invented. I don't remember the date for this > anymore -- it seems to me it would have been somewhere around 1985. I have an early "prototype" CDROM that eventually grew to be the Layered Products offering. I'd have to check but the date was 1990 or maybe 1989. License Manager was definitely created mostly because the trend towards shipping software on CDROM was spotted relatively early (or so I was told by those who were there). There was definitely a rule that software on the CDROM had to support LM. The DECnis fell foul of this rule (cries of "never mind the PAK look at the size of the *?@&^$+ dongle" apparently fell on deaf ears) and its software was eventually pulled. I'm pretty sure that the terminal servers and the other "standalone" routing products survived the cull, but DECnis never clawed its way back onto the distribution (AFAICR). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Mar 26 16:31:48 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <200403261758.MAA70047@smtp.9netave.com> Message-ID: <001f01c41382$20d47fd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Anyone remember BTH (Behind The Hilton) in Merrimack? Nope but I do remember RKG (Newcastle, UK) and what it stood for. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Mar 26 16:34:31 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <20040326183924.0754F7F81@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <002001c41382$8185c3c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > Hi Fred, Eric, > > The DEC version of the CM10x (which I don't have) had a > > customized frontpanel, but from what you say it may have been > > internally the same...? > > I have a CM100 and a DEC M7552-PA KRQ50 controller, > > which is supposedly RRD50 compatible. > > Sounds like I can connect them up? > > I would think it would work, but I can offer no guarantees. I'm not 100% certain but I'm 99% certain that the RRD40 and RRD50 have the same (LMSI??) interface. The KRQ50 will work with either. I had an RRD50 in my cube for quite a while and a KRQ50 to go with it but no interface cable. Pity. The RRD50 had the distinction of being about the only CDROM drive in the whole history of humanity that could rival an RRD40 for slowness. (OK, I almost certainly exaggerate, but probably not by much, and it would have been fun to see). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Mar 26 17:07:02 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <002001c41382$8185c3c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I would think it would work, but I can offer no guarantees. Its a rebadged Philips, if it has the round cable for interfacing, its the same. Philips DID send out units with a different interface, which used parallel cabling. > I'm not 100% certain but I'm 99% certain that the RRD40 and RRD50 have > the same (LMSI??) interface. The KRQ50 will work with either. I had an Yup, the KRQ50 used LMSI. (LM == LaserMagnetics; the working company at Philips that did all the optical research at the time.) > RRD50 in my cube for quite a while and a KRQ50 to go with it but no > interface cable. Pity. The RRD50 had the distinction of being about the > only CDROM drive in the whole history of humanity that could rival an > RRD40 for slowness. (OK, I almost certainly exaggerate, but probably not > by much, and it would have been fun to see). Its dog-slow, data transfers were serial. Still, I'd love to have a KRQ50. Ahwell. --f From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 26 18:02:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <006201c412ef$06008e80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Mar 25, 4 10:58:47 pm Message-ID: > > Sure would be nice to boot up something like pico FreeBSD on my 200LX :) But > alas that still requires 8mb and 386 :\ What about minix? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 26 18:04:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <20040326022152.4e09f456.sastevens@earthlink.net> from "Scott Stevens" at Mar 26, 4 02:21:52 am Message-ID: > > Desoldering ram chips is more effort then its worth. That depends on the RAM chips, how rare they are, and how much you need them. > > The old days of recovering tons of 64kx1 or 256Kx1 chips that way are > long gone, though. Why? Because you can't find boards full of them any more, or because such boards are actually useful complete (this certainly applies to some Unibux memory boards, S100 boards, PERQ memory boards, etc). Or because you can't find a use for 4164s or 41256s? (I certainly can!) -tony From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Mar 26 19:07:47 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM Message-ID: <200403270107.RAA17215@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> > Desoldering ram chips is more effort then its worth. > >That depends on the RAM chips, how rare they are, and how much you need >them. > Sounds like a process for an electric frying pan and peanut oil. Wear gloves and a face shield ( unless your really stupid ). Use a chip puller tool or make something up with stiff wire ( like coat hanger, a little bending and filing ). After they cool, wash then with dish soap. Dwight From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Fri Mar 26 19:15:12 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Mailing list for 8-bit Heathkit computer users Message-ID: <000001c41398$f4b054d0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Through the generosity of Patrick Rigney, I've set up the SEBHC (Society of Eight Bit Heathkit Computerists) mailing list for the exchange of information, hardware and software related to early Heath/Zenith computers. You can subscribe to the list by doing one of the following: 1) send the word "subscribe" in the BODY of a message to sebhc-request@staunch89er.com 2) or, send "subscribe sebhc" in the BODY of a message to majordomo@staunch89er.com Come join us if you are interested in sharing more about the H8, H/Z 88-89-90 or ET-3400 computers. Z100 users also welcome, as long as you're running on the right processor! Jack Rubin Wilmette, Illinois USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 26 19:05:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <005a01c41333$89cab6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040325210523.00882340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040326070858.0084c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040326200541.008c0d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:09 AM 3/26/04 -0600, you wrote: >> That's a common problem in them and AFIK no ones ever found a way to >fix >> them except to replace the case. :-( >See http://www.striegels.com/alan/HPLX/hpcrack.htm > > Interesting. But a lot of them crack right in the crease between the body and the round portion of the hinge. Still I wonder if putting the brass parts on their before it cracks would help prevent future breakage. Joe From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 26 20:14:54 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Great Finds at AuctionToday Message-ID: <000c01c413a1$4c786ec0$56406b43@66067007> Went to a school auction and picked up the following: HP 3000 model 922LX HP tape drive 7980 2-IBM 5291 Display stations with a maintenance library manual Dictaphone system model 6110 with KB model 6301, printer 6710, and ext. FD (51/4) model 6430 All for $10 From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 26 20:59:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Great Finds at AuctionToday References: <000c01c413a1$4c786ec0$56406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <000901c413a7$8343eeb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > HP tape drive 7980 > All for $10 FYI, in case you didn't already know... the 7980 is one (if not THE) cadillac of tape drives. Very nice unit, and built like a TANK. They rarely need repair. Is it a 7980, or 7980S? Great drive. They seem to go on ebay for around $250. $10 bucks is a steal! Now, on that HP3000, that brings a question to mind, but I'll put it in a different post. Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 26 21:18:17 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP3000 interest? Message-ID: <003701c413aa$267757a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I think I may have heard someone mention, perhaps in private email, that the HP3000 was a popular replacement for HP2000 TimeShared BASIC systems. Is this true? Did it have multiuser BASIC? Any other languages? Did you have a choice of different OS's on the same hardware? And more importantly, did any of the 3000's have blinkenlights? :) I know nothing about the 3000 stuff. Curiousity biting me :) Jay From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Mar 26 21:42:02 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP3000 interest? In-Reply-To: <003701c413aa$267757a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <003701c413aa$267757a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040327034202.GA1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jay West, from writings of Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 09:18:17PM -0600: > I think I may have heard someone mention, perhaps in private email, that the > HP3000 was a popular replacement for HP2000 TimeShared BASIC systems. Is > this true? Did it have multiuser BASIC? Any other languages? Did you have a The HP 3000 Series III that I worked with years ago ran HP's MPE-IV OS, and the programs for it were written in COBOL. > choice of different OS's on the same hardware? And more importantly, did any > of the 3000's have blinkenlights? :) I know nothing about the 3000 stuff. Yes, it was a beautiful machine in a rack about five or six feet wide, complete with blinkenlights; to look at it one could tell that a company such as what HP once was, manufacured it---it's appearance gave one the impression of solid reliability---not Fiorinaesque Flimsiness (TM). The disk drives for it used removable disk packs, in a disk farm consisting of many nearly washing-machine-sized chasis and the mag tape drives were mounted horizontally, built into large slanted tables. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aek at spies.com Fri Mar 26 21:53:29 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP3000 interest? Message-ID: <200403270353.i2R3rTA5005825@spies.com> Did you have a choice of different OS's on the same hardware? And more importantly, did any of the 3000's have blinkenlights? :) -- Frank will probably give a much better description when he sees this, but the 3000s built in the 70's had pretty impressive maintenance panels (I know Frank has one of them..) MPE was (is) the only operating system. Languages included BASIC, APL, FORTRAN PASCAL and SPL. There was no assembler. It is a stack machine ala B5xxx series. I have been scanning a LOT of 3000 material (mostly through the Series III) and I'm trying to locate distribution tapes from these machines up through MPE IV (early 80's) >From what I have found so far, there was a lot of documenation from these early 3000s saved, but none of the old software distributions. I'll see about getting some docs/pictures up on bitsavers, which is pretty light on 3000 material right now. -- also, bitsavers moved yesterday to a new machine/ip adr which should be transparent to everybody. From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Mar 27 01:17:43 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP3000 interest? References: <003701c413aa$267757a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <002101c413cb$98a97df0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> the hp 3000 did not have as many things displayed as the 2100... only one register.. and only on the series III or earlier, the later boxes were pretty much butt ugly. the novel thing we have here at the museum is the CE maintance panel for the 3000.. it has every possible part of the machine displayed with lights and you can also single step the beast with people logged on! many mnay of my years were spent on the 3000 and we would like to get a hp 3000 for the museum here. preferably close to Arizona but...... would buy one in new York even! cash or trade! bring it on! I have my tape set .....still! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: HP3000 interest? > I think I may have heard someone mention, perhaps in private email, that the > HP3000 was a popular replacement for HP2000 TimeShared BASIC systems. Is > this true? Did it have multiuser BASIC? Any other languages? Did you have a > choice of different OS's on the same hardware? And more importantly, did any > of the 3000's have blinkenlights? :) I know nothing about the 3000 stuff. > > Curiousity biting me :) > > Jay > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Mar 27 01:18:46 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP3000 interest? References: <003701c413aa$267757a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040327034202.GA1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002701c413cb$be1c48b0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> early tape drives were in racks the later one you speak of was in a table sorta roll around cab.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:42 PM Subject: Re: HP3000 interest? > Quothe Jay West, from writings of Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 09:18:17PM -0600: > > I think I may have heard someone mention, perhaps in private email, that the > > HP3000 was a popular replacement for HP2000 TimeShared BASIC systems. Is > > this true? Did it have multiuser BASIC? Any other languages? Did you have a > > The HP 3000 Series III that I worked with years ago ran HP's MPE-IV OS, > and the programs for it were written in COBOL. > > > choice of different OS's on the same hardware? And more importantly, did any > > of the 3000's have blinkenlights? :) I know nothing about the 3000 stuff. > > Yes, it was a beautiful machine in a rack about five or six feet wide, > complete with blinkenlights; to look at it one could tell that a > company such as what HP once was, manufacured it---it's appearance > gave one the impression of solid reliability---not Fiorinaesque > Flimsiness (TM). The disk drives for it used removable disk packs, in > a disk farm consisting of many nearly washing-machine-sized chasis and > the mag tape drives were mounted horizontally, built into large > slanted tables. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From als at thangorodrim.de Sat Mar 27 06:23:48 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: References: <006201c412ef$06008e80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040327122348.GA4266@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Sat, Mar 27, 2004 at 12:02:40AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Sure would be nice to boot up something like pico FreeBSD on my 200LX :) But > > alas that still requires 8mb and 386 :\ > > What about minix? It works on the HP200LX. The one time I tried it, I found it to be rather sloooooowww, so I aborted any further playing around with it. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From allain at panix.com Sat Mar 27 08:52:12 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP3000 interest? References: <003701c413aa$267757a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <004f01c4140b$16c19e40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > did any of the 3000's have blinkenlights? :) > I know nothing about the 3000 stuff. I worked on HP's 3000'th 3000, sold to GE. MPE was a real joy to use. This was the first time I used Instant Messaging (the TELL command), and we're talking 24 years ago for that! Personal belief is that the 3000 was a quite popular architecture that lasted for a number of years, like the DEC VAX series, so there may be a lot of different configurations. John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Mar 27 09:24:53 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Great Finds at AuctionToday References: <000c01c413a1$4c786ec0$56406b43@66067007> <000901c413a7$8343eeb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <007901c4140f$a8848aa0$a0406b43@66067007> Jay thanks for the info as I knew nothing about it until I seen it yesterday at the auction. It was put into storage yesterday and I will have to get to it again to see if it's a 7980S or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Great Finds at AuctionToday > > HP tape drive 7980 > > All for $10 > > FYI, in case you didn't already know... the 7980 is one (if not THE) > cadillac of tape drives. Very nice unit, and built like a TANK. They rarely > need repair. > > Is it a 7980, or 7980S? > > Great drive. They seem to go on ebay for around $250. $10 bucks is a steal! > Now, on that HP3000, that brings a question to mind, but I'll put it in a > different post. > > Jay > > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Mar 27 14:50:36 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: tu58 carts for 730 on ebay Message-ID: <0403272050.AA24908@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > Someone's selling tu58 carts (a.k.a. "dectape II") for a 730 on ebay. I have bought them. These are the very same diagnostics I wrote about on this list just a short while ago when discussing poor man's alternatives to AXE for validating new VAX implementations until we can raise enough manpower and firepower to storm into HP headquarters and seize AXE at gunpoint. These diags are not specific to 730, I read about them first in an 8200 manual and they test for correct operation of standard VAX instructions. I understand from the discussion on this list that their coverage is nowhere near as complete as AXE, but it's still a more complete test than just seeing my new VAX boot 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. (For example, UNIX makes absolutely no use of executive or supervisor modes, just kernel and user.) The next challenge will be reading the TU58s. I have the TU58 mechanical units, but not the controller board (the board that talks serial on one side and drives the head coils on the other). So I'll need to find a controller board first before I can read them. When I do read them, I'll post the block images on my FTP site. MS From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Mar 27 16:21:17 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: tu58 carts for 730 on ebay In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:50:36 PST." <0403272050.AA24908@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200403272221.i2RMLHt07436@mwave.heeltoe.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: >Brad Parker wrote: > >> Someone's selling tu58 carts (a.k.a. "dectape II") for a 730 on ebay. > >I have bought them. These are the very same diagnostics I wrote about >on this list just a short while ago when discussing poor man's ... I bought one of the diag tapes. I have a TU58. I replaced the rollers with newer, more reasonable ones. But it does not seem to work - seems like something's wrong with the controller card :-) I have booted my 730 with the tu58 emulator in the mean time. I discovered that "putr" does a reasonable job of allowing me to manipulate the 'tape' file, btw (with /tu58 /rt11). I plan to repair my TU58 shortly. When I do I will read the diag tape I have and if that works, I'd be happy to read your tapes if you don't find a controller card in the mean time. I also have some tapes which claim to be stock 730 boot tape. We'll see if they are when I am able to read them. Seems like between the two of us we can get a complete set of tape images for the '730... -brad ps: The netbsd 'boot' will netboot from a delua but won't run on a '730. The quasijarus 'boot' runs on a 730 but doesn't netboot. I'd like to netboot my '730. Any thoughts? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 27 17:39:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <20040327122348.GA4266@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> from "Alexander Schreiber" at Mar 27, 4 01:23:48 pm Message-ID: > It works on the HP200LX. The one time I tried it, I found it to be > rather sloooooowww, so I aborted any further playing around with it. I can't believe it's slower than on a 4.77MHz PC/XT (true-blue IBM), and that was my first unix machine... Compiling the kernel took several hours IIRC... -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Mar 27 18:45:53 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Got a IBM 5362 Today Message-ID: <007901c4145e$07d8da30$aa406b43@66067007> Went back to the auction site and got a IBM 5362 for $5. Looked this up on google and found out it's in the SYS/36 family? Could not find a manual for it, anyone got one they have scanned or will sale? Thanks From anheier at owt.com Sat Mar 27 18:02:23 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: FS: DEC boards In-Reply-To: <200403261800.i2QI03JB062426@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403261800.i2QI03JB062426@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <30B79C66-804B-11D8-84AF-0050E4E0C16B@owt.com> I have two DEC boards that I hate to sell but need the cash. They both appear to be in fine work shape, but I haven't tested them. They are: H217C, PDP-11/10 16K Word core memory board M7270, PDP-11/03, KD11-HA processor board I would be interested in your best offers. Thanks Norm anheier @ owt.com (remove spaces!) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 27 20:36:28 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Got a IBM 5362 Today Message-ID: <1c8.1707cda9.2d97942c@aol.com> That's the S/36 PC right? Ive got the 5364 model complete with a 5150 that it presumably IPLs from and a twinax terminal. If you've got just the 5362, you'll need more parts to use it I think. In a message dated 3/27/2004 7:47:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrkeys@concentric.net writes: Went back to the auction site and got a IBM 5362 for $5. Looked this up on google and found out it's in the SYS/36 family? Could not find a manual for it, anyone got one they have scanned or will sale? Thanks From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Mar 27 21:15:12 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Got a IBM 5362 Today References: <1c8.1707cda9.2d97942c@aol.com> Message-ID: <009f01c41472$e359ffd0$aa406b43@66067007> It's a large tower unit and very heavy with one internal 8" floppy drive (a picture of one is at www.zxspectrum.de/Hardware/IBM/IBM_5362/ibm_5362.html ). I missed a printer for it, a guy got it for $5 also. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Got a IBM 5362 Today > That's the S/36 PC right? Ive got the 5364 model complete with a 5150 that it > presumably IPLs from and a twinax terminal. If you've got just the 5362, > you'll need more parts to use it I think. > > In a message dated 3/27/2004 7:47:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jrkeys@concentric.net writes: > > Went back to the auction site and got a IBM 5362 for $5. Looked this up on > google and found out it's in the SYS/36 family? Could not find a manual for > it, anyone got one they have scanned or will sale? Thanks > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 27 22:15:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Video Game Invasion on Game Show Network Sunday 9pm Message-ID: A program that I contributed to, "Video Game Invasion: The History of a Global Obsession", is airing tomorrow night on the Game Show Network (cable/satellite TV) at 9pm. http://www.gsn.com/specific_page_elements.php?link_id=S26 Check local listings. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bmachacek at pcisys.net Sat Mar 27 23:53:02 2004 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Old Test Equipment Message-ID: <002001c41488$f2038040$0200000a@xeon> Just thought I'd make everyone aware that I have listed several old (50s and 60s) pieces of test equipment (vacuum tube) on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. They are a Tektronix scope, EICO TV-FM Sweep Signal Generator, EICO TV-FM Sweep Generator & Marker, HP Vacuum Tube Voltmeter, and a HP Audio Oscillator. I am listing them here first to give our members a chance to get them first. I will be putting those items that do not sell up on ebay at a later date and a higher price. Thanks for looking. Bill From tgarnica at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 11:20:19 2004 From: tgarnica at bellsouth.net (Tannya Garnica) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: HP C88140LC Message-ID: <00bc01c4128d$728bf4c0$650a0a0a@Tannya> Hi: Do you still have the data cartridges? I would be interested in purchasing them from you. Let me know. Thnx, Tannya Garnica tgarnica@bellsouth.net From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Mar 25 20:12:47 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: UFO over DEC In-Reply-To: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040325210950.02580fb0@mail.n.ml.org> At 08:55 PM 3/25/2004, you wrote: ... snip like a bastard ... Ok, so if UFO's were hanging at DEC, we can be quite sure, anal probes came into play and most likely cattle mutilation. Could this be why Matt Stone and Trey Parker made a South Park episode (supposedly South Park is in Colorado) about alien anal probing in the area with cow slaughters as well? Grin. I think your friend just fed you a mountain of doody and you fell for it. -John Boffemmyer IV ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From glickman at decny.com Fri Mar 26 07:58:54 2004 From: glickman at decny.com (Gary M Glickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 Message-ID: I got one also, and the LED displays are interesting. Did you ever get a response to your inquiry last year? I found this old Monsanto document that doesn't give much info and would appreciate if you had anything else. > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 > Ethan Dicks cctalk@classiccmp.org > Wed Mar 5 09:32:00 2003 > > ? Previous message: Help Locating H8 Parts > ? Next message: fair price for apple articles > ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > Over in the Yahoo Group for the Cosmac Elf, a few of us have picked up > these MSI/88 barcode "terminals" for a couple of bucks surplus. Mine > arrived yesterday. They are interesting because they are hand-held > 1802 devices with a serial port and either an LED or LCD text display > (all of mine are the LED model). I'm trying to assist in the reverse > engineering and can *not* find any data on the LED display itself, a > MAN2815, nor one of the chips that seems to be driving it, a National > DS8867. > > I have googled for an hour looking for them. No results. > > Anybody heard of these parts? > > -ethan > From RatesGo at planewerks.com Sat Mar 27 08:18:01 2004 From: RatesGo at planewerks.com (RatesGo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Tektronix 1230 pods Message-ID: <000801c41406$524f3b20$6500a8c0@pii333> G'Mornin' Dan; I saw an ancient post of yours "I recently bought a model 1220 analyzer on eBay which is very similar to the..." and I find myself in a similar situation: proud owner of a $25 1230 with no pods or probes; wondering if you made any progress in your quest and fantasizing that you may happen to have for sale just what I need. Any suggestions appreciated :) Jeff Principal Factotum here From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Mar 28 02:06:21 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1080461181.6156.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 17:45, ben franchuk wrote: > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. > Univac 1108 anyone (a nice round 48-bits)? -- TTFN - Guy From emu at ecubics.com Sun Mar 28 03:20:14 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <1080461181.6156.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080461181.6156.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <406698CE.5010607@ecubics.com> Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 17:45, ben franchuk wrote: > >>So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers >>that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking >>lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware >>level. >> > > > Univac 1108 anyone (a nice round 48-bits)? @RUN,/N QUESTION,1010/EMANUEL,PRO @FOR,S 1 FORMAT(1H0, 'YOU HAVE ANY SOFTWARE FOR IT ?') WRITE(6,1) END @XQT @PASSWORD SECRET @FIN From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Mar 28 03:23:22 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040328092322.GA9981@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 08:58:54AM -0500, Gary M Glickman wrote: > I got one also, and the LED displays are interesting. Did you ever get a > response to your inquiry last year? I found this old Monsanto document that > doesn't give much info and would appreciate if you had anything else. > > > > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 > > Ethan Dicks cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Wed Mar 5 09:32:00 2003 > > Over in the Yahoo Group for the Cosmac Elf, a few of us have picked up > > these MSI/88 barcode "terminals" for a couple of bucks surplus... > > and can *not* find any data on the LED display... MAN2815, nor... > > a National DS8867. No response and no data. I'd love to see your Monsanto document. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Mar-2004 10:21 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -84.2 F (-64.5 C) Windchill -128.9 F (-89.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.30 kts Grid 111 Barometer 675.8 mb (10784. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 28 07:09:28 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM References: Message-ID: <007b01c414c5$e71f0860$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM > > > Desoldering ram chips is more effort then its worth. > > That depends on the RAM chips, how rare they are, and how much you need > them. > > > > > The old days of recovering tons of 64kx1 or 256Kx1 chips that way are > > long gone, though. > > Why? Because you can't find boards full of them any more, or because such > boards are actually useful complete (this certainly applies to some > Unibux memory boards, S100 boards, PERQ memory boards, etc). Or because > you can't find a use for 4164s or 41256s? (I certainly can!) > > -tony > >From what I have seen boards of the vintage that would have the chips I am looking for (256kx4) are either in somebody's parts bin (which is why I asked here) already or have been scrapped a while ago. Most of these chips haven't been used since the early 90's making them at least 10 years old. Some other oddball chips I am looking for are 256kx8 VRAM 70ns SOJ for my old matrox vlb card (most boards use higher density vram chips). TZ From cswiger at widomaker.com Sun Mar 28 08:42:20 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: MonroeMatic help Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20040328093436.01feb800@wilma.widomaker.com> Hi Gang - Is there an email support list for mechanical calculators? I just picked up a MonroeMatic, looks like a model CSA-10, for a cheap price in un-molested condition. Tag shows an M.G. date of 982663. Just needs de-gunking cleaning and lube (hopefully). I can get it to do simple add / subtract but things like the 'set up' button aren't obvious. It's one of those jobs with the shifting accumulator along the top, multiplication and division ;) --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 28 10:45:58 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (jfoust@threedee.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Your picture Message-ID: <200403281700.i2SH0pJ2077304@huey.classiccmp.org> Here is the file. From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Mar 28 11:02:39 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:23 2005 Subject: Moved my collection In-Reply-To: <001201c4124d$aa045950$0500fea9@game> References: <1080203078.6908.1.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <001201c4124d$aa045950$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <1080493358.6156.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 01:43, Teo Zenios wrote: > > Out of curiosity how many years did it take to find everything in your > collection? Believe it or not what you see is the result of about 18 months worth of collecting...I've slowed down significantly since I started. I'd actually wanted to get some of this stuff long before I actually found any of it so the 18 month number doesn't represent how long I'd actually been looking (in all the wrong places). -- TTFN - Guy From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Mar 28 11:18:42 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406698CE.5010607@ecubics.com> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080461181.6156.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <406698CE.5010607@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1080494322.6157.27.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 01:20, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > > Univac 1108 anyone (a nice round 48-bits)? > > @RUN,/N QUESTION,1010/EMANUEL,PRO > @FOR,S > 1 FORMAT(1H0, 'YOU HAVE ANY SOFTWARE FOR IT ?') > WRITE(6,1) > END > @XQT > @PASSWORD SECRET > @FIN OK, how about an IBM 1130? The mechanicals shouldn't be hard (basically a desk with a terminal embedded in it). There should be some software. And oh yea, it uses a cartridge pack drive (which I think is compatible with the DEC RK05 and one of the HP drives). -- TTFN - Guy From ohh at drizzle.com Sun Mar 28 12:42:49 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Where to look? (was: Moved my collection) In-Reply-To: <1080493358.6156.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: Guy Sotomayor wrote thus: > Believe it or not what you see is the result of about 18 months worth of > collecting...I've slowed down significantly since I started. I'd > actually wanted to get some of this stuff long before I actually found > any of it so the 18 month number doesn't represent how long I'd actually > been looking (in all the wrong places). 18 _months?_ That's impressive! Startling, even. It raises a question, too. As someone who's new here, and who has evidently been looking in some of the wrong places for a machine , I'm curious: what kinds of places have you had the best luck with, and what kinds of places have yielded the least results? It's an open question; any good answers are appreciated. -O.- From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 28 13:04:09 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080461181.6156.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <406698CE.5010607@ecubics.com> <1080494322.6157.27.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <406721A9.9080908@jetnet.ab.ca> Guy Sotomayor wrote: > OK, how about an IBM 1130? The mechanicals shouldn't be hard (basically > a desk with a terminal embedded in it). There should be some software. > And oh yea, it uses a cartridge pack drive (which I think is compatible > with the DEC RK05 and one of the HP drives). Lets not forget the terminal used a ODD character set. I don't think that Selectric Ball is easy to come by. Years ago I had the console typewriter of a IBM1130 hoping to use it as a printer, but I distroyed it by running open loop rather than closed loop. Very sensitive timing for CR's and LF's. And No I don't have it any more, since I moved to many times. Ben. From technobug at comcast.net Sun Mar 28 14:11:49 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <200403281800.i2SI08J3077663@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200403281800.i2SI08J3077663@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <255F3F80-80F4-11D8-AFCF-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> I was going through the junk yesterday and found two boards with the following: HM4816AP-15/TMS4416-15NL -> 192 chips HM50256P-12 -> 144 chips (256kx1) The early bird gets the ... for the price of postage. Claude From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 28 14:14:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <406698CE.5010607@ecubics.com> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> <1080461181.6156.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <406698CE.5010607@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <20040328121312.F63275@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Univac 1108 anyone (a nice round 48-bits)? > @RUN,/N QUESTION,1010/EMANUEL,PRO > @FOR,S > 1 FORMAT(1H0, 'YOU HAVE ANY SOFTWARE FOR IT ?') > WRITE(6,1) > END > @XQT > @PASSWORD SECRET > @FIN He does now (assuming that he has the FORTRAN compiler) But it might be nice to get together some fancier stuff. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sun Mar 28 14:22:36 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: MonroeMatic help References: <5.2.1.1.1.20040328093436.01feb800@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <01e801c41502$6908f890$6900a8c0@athlon> Try this as a starter-you should find something useful off here. Dave B Ch Ch, NZ http://k.webring.com/hub?ring=calculator ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Swiger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:42 AM Subject: MonroeMatic help > Hi Gang - Is there an email support list for mechanical calculators? > > I just picked up a MonroeMatic, looks like a model CSA-10, for a cheap > price in un-molested condition. Tag shows an M.G. date of 982663. > Just needs de-gunking cleaning and lube (hopefully). > > I can get it to do simple add / subtract but things like the 'set up' button > aren't obvious. It's one of those jobs with the shifting accumulator along > the top, multiplication and division ;) > > --Chuck > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Mar 28 15:02:11 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Diagnostic Box? Message-ID: <40673D53.C1E00CFE@rain.org> At the TRW swap meet yesterday, I ran across this box: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/box.jpg. The reason I bought it was that the overlays had some words that rang of old mainframe computers. There are three double sided overlays to define what the LEDs mean with designations such as "Print Scan Counter", "Print Character Generator", etc. Another overlay has the heading "2314/2841 TROS SAL BITS". There are two rectangular connectors with cables to connect to whatever this thing is doing something with:). The only label on the box says "Infinite Computer". Anyone have any idea what this thing is and is used for? From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Mar 28 15:55:52 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Scope probes Message-ID: Hi all, Really weird question. I just ungreased the Beckmann 9020 scope I recently got, and it looks like it still works fine. And now that it's all clean again, one can even see stuff on the crt :) However, I did'n't get any probes with it. Does anyone have a set of 20MHz-capable probes lying around? Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From emu at ecubics.com Sun Mar 28 15:15:22 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: VMEbus systems Message-ID: <4067406A.60602@ecubics.com> Hi all, Anybody out here has a spare VMEbus system to give away or sell ? Did a lot of work on the VMEbus many years ago, and somehow would like to have at least one VME system in my collection. Nothing fancy, a 68000 is OK, with floppy if possible. cheers & thanks From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 28 17:17:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Where to look? (was: Moved my collection) References: Message-ID: <00af01c4151a$cf7e2420$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Standard list: {Here}, VCM, eBay, town recycling center Like I said earlier, find people on eBay, befriend them, get on their contact list, find things like a PDP-11/10 (1972, my oldest computer) that they would've deemed scrap, make a reasonable offer. Two more: The Trenton Computer Festival (good for Apple, Sun, at least). http://www.tcf-nj.org/ the one and only of the year is in five weeks The Flea at MIT http://web.mit.edu/w1mx/www/swapfest.html , click on 'flyer' first of the year is in three weeks John A. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Mar 28 20:58:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: electronics workbench Message-ID: <000e01c41539$b9c178c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> My amount of test equipment has outgrown my workbench setup, so I need to look at setting up or building a bench. I've got the current bench so crowded with gear it's hard to work already, plus I've got a lot of test gear that isn't on the bench and should be. i'd love to get the laptop a spot on the bench too (lots of room it would take up) So.... I went googling in search of pictures of good bench setups. I'm looking for ideas on the best way to stuff as much gear as possible onto it, while keeping it usable and neat. Does anyone have any links to different ideas for workbench setup? I have a sneaky suspicion that if I just build one myself I'll find that later "oh WHY did I put the outlet strip THERE?". I didn't find much of anything googling, but was hoping to draw on experience of others for some ideas in building a bench from scratch. So far I've used those "set on top of a desk premade lettershelfs". They let you put rows of test equipment close with the faces all well accessible. But haven't found the best place to put the power strips. If anyone has links to pictures of bench setups, or advice of things to watch out for when putting one together, I'd like to hear them! Jay West From jdbryan at acm.org Sun Mar 28 17:47:43 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 In-Reply-To: <20040328092322.GA9981@bos7.spole.gov> References: Message-ID: <200403282347.i2SNlkk3028046@mail.bcpl.net> On 28 Mar 2004 at 9:23, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Over in the Yahoo Group for the Cosmac Elf, a few of us have picked up > > > these MSI/88 barcode "terminals" for a couple of bucks surplus... and > > > can *not* find any data on the LED display... MAN2815, nor... a National > > > DS8867. > > No response and no data. I'd love to see your Monsanto document. I have a 1986 National Semiconductor interface databook here that contains a datasheet for the "DS8867 8-Segment Constant Current Driver." Would a PDF scan of that datasheet be of help? I have a lot of old semi databooks at work from the 1970s and 1980s. I don't recall whether I have a Monsanto databook or not, but I'll check on Monday. -- Dave From swoodward at sandhillecon.com Sun Mar 28 10:05:24 2004 From: swoodward at sandhillecon.com (Susan Woodward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: otrona advanced systems Message-ID: <07ea01c414de$7b4bb1b0$a1d2fea9@sandhillecon.com> Dear Mr. Feldman, I ran across the classic computer dialog searching for what became of Otrona Advanced Systems. Tony, who wrote the message, appears sure that Otrona had gone out of business. Can we ask him when Otrona went out of business? I study private companies and their histories and this is an important early one. I would be most grateful for even an approximate shut down date. Susan Woodward Sand Hill Econometrics www.sandhillecon.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Mar 29 02:06:05 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 In-Reply-To: <200403282347.i2SNlkk3028046@mail.bcpl.net> References: <200403282347.i2SNlkk3028046@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <20040329080605.GA26993@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Mar 28, 2004 at 06:47:43PM -0500, J. David Bryan wrote: > On 28 Mar 2004 at 9:23, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > Over in the Yahoo Group for the Cosmac Elf, a few of us have picked up > > > > these MSI/88 barcode "terminals" for a couple of bucks surplus... and > > > > can *not* find any data on the LED display... MAN2815, nor... a National > > > > DS8867. > > I have a 1986 National Semiconductor interface databook here that contains > a datasheet for the "DS8867 8-Segment Constant Current Driver." Would a > PDF scan of that datasheet be of help? Yes! Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Mar-2004 08:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.3 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -149.1 F (-100.6 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.2 kts Grid 116 Barometer 677.1 mb (10735. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 29 04:01:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: VMEbus systems In-Reply-To: <4067406A.60602@ecubics.com> References: <4067406A.60602@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1080554518.14619.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 22:15, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Hi all, > > Anybody out here has a spare VMEbus system to give away or sell ? A location would be helpful to people - at least an idea of which country you're in :-) cheers Jules From emu at ecubics.com Mon Mar 29 07:57:59 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: VMEbus systems In-Reply-To: <1080554518.14619.11.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <4067406A.60602@ecubics.com> <1080554518.14619.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40682B67.6010108@ecubics.com> Jules Richardson wrote: > On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 22:15, emanuel stiebler wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >>Anybody out here has a spare VMEbus system to give away or sell ? > > > A location would be helpful to people - at least an idea of which > country you're in :-) For a complete system, I'm in colorado, us. For boards, I have a shipping address in germany ;-) From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 08:42:26 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: electronics workbench References: <000e01c41539$b9c178c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <002001c4159c$0f7b5940$2bdb3fd0@DOMAIN> > My amount of test equipment has outgrown my workbench setup, so I need to > look at setting up or building a bench. I've got the current bench so > crowded with gear it's hard to work already, plus I've got a lot of test > gear that isn't on the bench and should be. i'd love to get the laptop a > spot on the bench too (lots of room it would take up) So.... > > I went googling in search of pictures of good bench setups. I'm looking for > ideas on the best way to stuff as much gear as possible onto it, while > keeping it usable and neat. Does anyone have any links to different ideas > for workbench setup? I have a sneaky suspicion that if I just build one > myself I'll find that later "oh WHY did I put the outlet strip THERE?". I > didn't find much of anything googling, but was hoping to draw on experience > of others for some ideas in building a bench from scratch. So far I've used > those "set on top of a desk premade lettershelfs". They let you put rows of > test equipment close with the faces all well accessible. But haven't found > the best place to put the power strips. > > If anyone has links to pictures of bench setups, or advice of things to > watch out for when putting one together, I'd like to hear them! > > Jay West > I've got a solution that I've been real happy with here. Behind my 'bench' is a set of those heavy plastic 4x2 ft shelves from Home Depot. The longways shelf at eye-level has my sope, logic anaylzer and old nixie frequency counter and a little Unibus cpu. Eye-level shelf[-1] has a few PSes with leads ready to jump out and also is storing my Tek 4051 junk hiding there. My 'bench' juts out from about this level. Higher and lower shelves back there now offer other convenient storage and I've daisy chained powerstrips up the frame of the shelves to provide power whereever needed. My bench from the ground up is a piano stand metal X frame supporting a floating 5ft plywood bench with a groundable static mat.on top of that.. That still gives me space underneath the bench which two big book piles now occupy too. Have a few Heath electronic trainers, other breadboards, a few VOM and some morphable area on the bench. Been looking for the serial cable for a Psion-5 to use as my laptop on the bench. Then recently, another shelf grew on top of the bench letting me kinda computationaly stack-push my last State while I play with a few new things( swtpc/cosmac). But even now the bench is wierdly accessable underneath. I can also carefuly lift the entire now two level bench with everything on it and shift it left or right by a foot or so to gain access to a more seldomly used isle or desk on the right . Ands that all in front of the 'bench seat'. And with more nearby shelves/tables/piles Other Stuff, a desked NeXT, a 4 pc computer network, and evem a small sleeper also fit neatly all in that small bedroom with the electronics bench. Everythings accessable maybe with minor effort. Room occupancy: 3 people recently tested, and over 100 systems (okay, alota sbc's). Kinda feels like your inside a 3D Core back there. FUN. Check out: http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/U1800a.jpg The electronics bench starts at the bottom of the picture with the brown antistatic bench mat. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Mar 29 09:01:57 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: QIC-100 SCSI tape drive? Message-ID: <200403291501.i2TF1vX09756@mwave.heeltoe.com> Anyone have a QIC-100 SCSI tape drive drive? Or know where to get one? Seems like there was a brief window when such a thing existed, but I can't seem to find any evidence on the web. I must be searching for the wrong thing. I probably need a specific product. I've got a qic-150 drive (the large 4x6x.5" carts). I need a qic-100 drive. (I suspect it's the same size cart as a TU-58. I don't plan to use it to read TU-58's, but who knows, maybe it will read them) -brad From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 29 09:26:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <200403270107.RAA17215@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Sounds like a process for an electric frying pan and peanut oil. I strongly diagree. Using oil (even olive, as peanut and vegtable oil is banned in my kitchen) is asking for a messy burn. Use what the "pros" use: solder and a solder pot. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 29 10:29:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been using Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of months since they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to be first in their search results. It's gotten so bad that I can no longer find anything with their searchs except ads for totally unrelated items. Joe From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 29 10:40:51 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM References: Message-ID: <40685193.FAB62789@rain.org> There is an oil called Fusing Oil specifically designed for fusing circuit boards (heating the tin-lead plating to a point where it alloys to solder) that could be used. Another route is to use a heat gun on the back side and use the "slam-bang" method of removing the chips. Having used all three methods, I prefer the solder pot approach, but it is not always available. My second choice is the slam-bang method :). William Donzelli wrote: > > > Sounds like a process for an electric frying pan and peanut oil. > > I strongly diagree. Using oil (even olive, as peanut and vegtable oil is > banned in my kitchen) is asking for a messy burn. > > Use what the "pros" use: solder and a solder pot. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 29 10:47:36 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16488.21288.512491.674356@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been Joe> using Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of Joe> months since they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to Joe> be first in their search results. It's gotten so bad that I can Joe> no longer find anything with their searchs except ads for Joe> totally unrelated items. Strange. I haven't found them that bad. But there's also AltaVista. The last time I tried it, though, it didn't find anything on a query that I would have expected to turn up a bunch of hits. paul From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 29 10:49:26 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: <40685193.FAB62789@rain.org> Message-ID: > There is an oil called Fusing Oil specifically designed for fusing > circuit boards (heating the tin-lead plating to a point where it alloys > to solder) that could be used. I think I have a bottl of that stuff, but I never tried it. > Another route is to use a heat gun on the > back side and use the "slam-bang" method of removing the chips. Oh yes, I have done this as well. Whatever method is used, it is very wise to preheat the chips before they are pulled. Not so fast, but not so light either - the idea is to reduce the thermal shock when the poor things are exposed to the real heat. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 29 10:52:01 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Diagnostic Box? In-Reply-To: <40673D53.C1E00CFE@rain.org> Message-ID: > Another overlay has the heading "2314/2841 TROS SAL BITS". There > are two rectangular connectors with cables to connect to whatever this > thing is doing something with:) 2314 is a DASD, 2841 is a control unit, both late S/360 and early S/370 era IBM devices. The rectangular connectors are likely Bus and Tag. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From fire at dls.net Mon Mar 29 11:02:02 2004 From: fire at dls.net (Bradley Slavik) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: Problem with ESDI drive In-Reply-To: <200403281800.i2SI08J4077663@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Dear Classic Computing Community, I goofed when I was transferring data from a Compaq Deskpro 286 to my modern machine via 1.2MB 5.25" floppy. Machine was difficult to boot due to problems with config.sys and autoexec.bat. This time instead of booting from DOS 4.0.1 floppy, I boot from startup program floppy which helpfully offered to fix problems accessing hard drive. I was tired enough that I did not realize that this meant it was offering to repartition and format hard drive. OK. Data is all still there because I have not done anything else to it. I tried to run some of my utilities on the Compaq, but they did not like the fact that the machine has only 8MB of memory. I would like to take card and drive and install them in a more modern 75MHz Pentium system which has an ISA slot. When I put card and drive in Pentium it will not boot. It counts memory and freezes. I have tried a number of ways to configure the dip switches and play with the setup program on this machine. Machine is a Packard Bell 401CD Here are the specs: Core CNT-HCR controller, I have the manual. Here is a web page with most of the information : http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/c/C-D/20256.htm Core HC150HD, here are specs I found for this drive: http://members.tripod.com/~oldboard/assembly/hard_disks_drives.html http://www.powernet.co.za/info/tables/disk/hdd/Other.Htm I also have Core Tape drive which has backups of all files if I could get drive to work - I do not have software/drivers for any of this hardware, but somehow I have the manuals, so I know the names of all the commands. I found some settings in the Setup in the Packard Bell for shared memory for the ISA card, and address and interrupt settings. I set them appropriately. I suspect that it might be something like the ROM on the card interfering with the ROM on the machine. This drive did something like overwriting BIOS in memory while machine is booting. Or maybe I completely misunderstand what is happening. Anyhow I would like to at least figure out how to get card in newer machine even if I cannot figure out how to get data off. I might eventually end up sending it to DriveSavers. Very good people, and I don't mind paying them, but I would like to see if I can get the partition table right and unformat to run. That should be all this drive needs. Bradley Slavik From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 29 11:12:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <16488.21288.512491.674356@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040329121201.008f0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:47 AM 3/29/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been > Joe> using Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of > Joe> months since they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to > Joe> be first in their search results. It's gotten so bad that I can > Joe> no longer find anything with their searchs except ads for > Joe> totally unrelated items. > >Strange. I haven't found them that bad. Have you used them lately??? This morning I tried to search for a driver for the ethernet card that is built into my Dell GX110 computer. I searched for "dell gx110 ethernet driver download" instead all I get are ads such as "Buy pcmcia to pci WindWire Wireless". Do you see anything in the search string about "buy" or "pci" or "pcmcia" or "wireless"? That wasn't the only result like that, they were ALL ads for soemthing totally unrelated to what I wanted. I went through 6 or seven pages or results and didn't find anything close to what I was looking for. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 29 11:18:14 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040329121201.008f0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. > Sent: 29 March 2004 18:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > >Strange. I haven't found them that bad. > > Have you used them lately??? This morning I tried to > search for a driver for the ethernet card that is built into > my Dell GX110 computer. I searched for "dell gx110 ethernet > driver download" instead all I get are ads such as "Buy I've noticed increasing adverts for unrelated things to what I'm searching for but it hasn't got so bad as to put me off yet. However the Missus swears by ungoogle.com, which bills itself as 'finding the stuff that google doesn't'. Give that one a try. Cheers w From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 29 11:21:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040329121201.008f0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16488.23341.171401.835224@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> At 11:47 AM 3/29/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: >> Joe> Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been Joe> using Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of Joe> months since they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to Joe> be first in their search results. It's gotten so bad that I can Joe> no longer find anything with their searchs except ads for Joe> totally unrelated items. >> Strange. I haven't found them that bad. Joe> Have you used them lately??? This morning I tried to search for Joe> a driver for the ethernet card that is built into my Dell GX110 Joe> computer. I searched for "dell gx110 ethernet driver download" Joe> instead all I get are ads such as "Buy pcmcia to pci WindWire Joe> Wireless". Do you see anything in the search string about "buy" Joe> or "pci" or "pcmcia" or "wireless"? That wasn't the only result Joe> like that, they were ALL ads for soemthing totally unrelated to Joe> what I wanted. I went through 6 or seven pages or results and Joe> didn't find anything close to what I was looking for. You must be using a different Google.com than I am... :-) I just tried that exact string. I get a page that reports 129 hits, and the very first one is a Dell software download page. Not the right one, I think -- but it does seem to have all the words on it. I don't see any windwire ads. I do see three "sponsored links" on the right side of the page, which is something I ignore 99.9% of the time. Remember that a query of the form you used finds pages that contain the words you mentioned, anywhere in the page. That explains why the first hit is a download but not for the gx110 driver. The query that seems to work is simply: "gx110 driver" download paul From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Mar 29 11:41:16 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000701c415b5$09f48460$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been using > Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of months since > they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to be first in their > search results. It's gotten so bad that I can no longer find anything with > their searchs except ads for totally unrelated items. > > Joe > "Google does not sell placement within the results themselves (i.e., no one can buy a higher PageRank)." - copied from google site : http://www.google.ca/technology/index.html March 29/2004 - keywords are within the results themselves. They do sell rights to the ads that popup to the right and above the search results but none of the search result placements can be bought. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 29 11:50:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040329121201.008f0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040329125014.008f3c90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:18 PM 3/29/04 +0100, w. wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >> Sent: 29 March 2004 18:12 >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? >> >> >Strange. I haven't found them that bad. >> >> Have you used them lately??? This morning I tried to >> search for a driver for the ethernet card that is built into >> my Dell GX110 computer. I searched for "dell gx110 ethernet >> driver download" instead all I get are ads such as "Buy > >I've noticed increasing adverts for unrelated things to what I'm searching >for but it hasn't got so bad as to put me off yet. However the Missus swears >by ungoogle.com, which bills itself as 'finding the stuff that google >doesn't'. Give that one a try. It looks promising. I tried it with the same search and the very FIRST item that it diplayed was what I was looking for. Thanks. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 29 11:56:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <000701c415b5$09f48460$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040329125631.008ed860@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:41 PM 3/29/04 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM >Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > >> Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been using >> Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of months since >> they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to be first in their >> search results. It's gotten so bad that I can no longer find anything with >> their searchs except ads for totally unrelated items. >> >> Joe >> > "Google does not sell placement within the results themselves (i.e., no one >can buy a higher PageRank)." - copied from google site : >http://www.google.ca/technology/index.html I hear you but I don't believe it! I get used-line.com ads in the top three positions about 75% of the time that I use Google. IF they're not placing certain companies first intentionly then they have a serious probelm with their search engine! Joe From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Mon Mar 29 12:00:54 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <000701c415b5$09f48460$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: I found that spending a little time learning Google's advanced search and figuring out some of the special features documented here http://www.google.com/help/index.html was worth the investment and I get good results most of the time. I love the thing. --Patrick Favorite search: " DC characteristics filetype:pdf" (usually produces a PDF data sheet for the specified chip in the first 20 results, or close enough that you can tweak to it with 1 or 2 more searches) Other favorite use: Google calculator (previous discussed), try "0x4ef3 + 43 in octal" Disclaimer: I am not a shareholder. :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:41 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe R." > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM > Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > > > Does anyone know of a good internet search engine? I've been using > > Google but they have gotten LOUSY in the last couple of months since > > they've decided to sell the "right" to companies to be first in their > > search results. It's gotten so bad that I can no longer find > anything with > > their searchs except ads for totally unrelated items. > > > > Joe > > > "Google does not sell placement within the results themselves > (i.e., no one > can buy a higher PageRank)." - copied from google site : > http://www.google.ca/technology/index.html > > March 29/2004 > > - keywords are within the results themselves. They do sell rights > to the ads > that popup to the right and above the search results but none of > the search > result placements can be bought. > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 29 12:03:13 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? Message-ID: > I hear you but I don't believe it! I get used-line.com ads in the top >three positions about 75% of the time that I use Google. IF they're not >placing certain companies first intentionly then they have a serious >probelm with their search engine! Are you per chance using a browser that may not display the paid links on the right or top as different from the rest of the links? Ordinarily, I would think that would be a stretch, but on this list, I know its common to find people using Lynx or some other browser that may not display things they way google planned. its also possible that they company is seeding certain terms in an effort to get pushed higher on google. IIRC, google prioritizes based on who is linked the most... so if the company spams public archived mail lists, or has a banner ad that is being picked up by google, they may be artifically getting moved to the top. -chris From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Mon Mar 29 12:05:21 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040329125631.008ed860@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > > I hear you but I don't believe it! I get used-line.com ads in the top > three positions about 75% of the time that I use Google. IF they're not > placing certain companies first intentionly then they have a serious > probelm with their search engine! > > Joe > Joe, by the way, do those listings have a colored background, or are they on a white background? The listings at top with the colored background ARE sponsored placements. I ignore these most of the time when I'm not specifically looking for a retailer or supplier. --Patrick From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Mar 29 12:22:30 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: Message-ID: <001501c415ba$cc175cc0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:05 PM Subject: RE: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > > > I hear you but I don't believe it! I get used-> > Joe, by the way, do those listings have a colored background, or are they on > a white background? The listings at top with the colored background ARE > sponsored placements. I ignore these most of the time when I'm not > specifically looking for a retailer or supplier. --Patrick > I thought of that also, using something like Lynx or something. People have found various ways to stack the searches now and then but this is, I think, only temporalily successful. Google mentions this on the link I posted earlier. Lately I have noticed ad-supported search sites clogging up the top of the result list, by that I mean pages that have the words I search for on the page I get but these words only lead to other pages, like a gigantic cache of text from sites. Does that make sense? I suppose this would mean there is a flaw with how google is tricked by these sites but I guarantee you that they are working on eliminating these posers. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 29 12:22:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040329121201.008f0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Have you used them lately??? This morning I tried to search for a > driver for the ethernet card that is built into my Dell GX110 computer. I > searched for "dell gx110 ethernet driver download" instead all I get are > ads such as "Buy pcmcia to pci WindWire Wireless". Do you see anything in > the search string about "buy" or "pci" or "pcmcia" or "wireless"? That > wasn't the only result like that, they were ALL ads for soemthing totally > unrelated to what I wanted. I went through 6 or seven pages or results and > didn't find anything close to what I was looking for. Joe, this is not Google (well, not directly). This is idiot companies who've learned how to game Google to get their site returned as the top result. There's a whole science behind it. Google needs to do something to prevent this sort of thing, but it's not them selling positioning. They sell ads but those are the results that show up highlighted (and explicitly state they are paid links) and the links on the right side. I have the same problem as you whenever searching for ANYTHING having to do with laptops. There are a million companies out there all trying to hawk the same product, all competing with each other. Quite annoying, and as a result I can hardly ever find anything useful when I'm searching for information about laptops. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 29 12:32:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040329112958.008cae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I personally have no problems with Google, however, I recently ran accross an interesting search engine. http://vivisimo.com/ It has the interesting ability of putting what it finds into groups. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 29 12:34:53 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080585292.14622.62.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 19:00, Patrick wrote: > I found that spending a little time learning Google's advanced search and > figuring out some of the special features documented here > http://www.google.com/help/index.html was worth the investment and I get > good results most of the time. I love the thing. --Patrick For the most part it does a good job, but it does seem to have become far less reliable at ranking pages over the last year than it used to be. Google can't do case sensitive searches, as far as I can tell, which annoys the hell out of me. Sometimes I've needed to search for something that's an acronym, which just happens to be a legal word too. There's no way that I know of filtering out the junk and just searching for the acronym in capitals. Similarly, Google trying to be "helpful" can be a real pain, when it goes and tries to be clever about finding results (returning not only matches to what you searched for, but other things it considers close). "Stemming" they seem to call it. Trouble is there seems to be no way of turning it off... A search engine that just returns what you ask for from the web would be nice - no indexing of news, mailing lists etc, no ads, and no trying to be intelligent by stripping out words, modifying words, randomly inserting or removing punctuation etc. cheers Jules From lou_medina_57 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 12:45:13 2004 From: lou_medina_57 at yahoo.com (lou medina) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: removal from mailing list Message-ID: <20040329184513.70908.qmail@web11201.mail.yahoo.com> I lost the information on how I can be removed from the mailing list. Can you send it to me please? Lou From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 29 12:49:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: <1080585292.14622.62.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16488.28612.757468.428773@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> Google can't do case sensitive searches, as far as I can tell, Jules> which annoys the hell out of me. Sometimes I've needed to Jules> search for something that's an acronym, which just happens to Jules> be a legal word too. There's no way that I know of filtering Jules> out the junk and just searching for the acronym in capitals. Try AltaVista for that... The other thing I like in AltaVista that I haven't seen elsewhere is the "NEAR" operator in Boolean search expressions. paul From dave at mitton.com Mon Mar 29 12:54:01 2004 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: cctech Digest article order inversion In-Reply-To: <200403281323.i2SDMDJ7076710@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040329134444.035d9900@getmail.mitton.com> On behalf of other digest readers, and for those whom get the live feed, not understanding occasional confusion on our parts, I wish to whine at the moderator. I understand backlogs, but could something be done with time-based message ordering? It makes threads really hard to follow! e.g.: >Message: 8 >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 04 17:55:49 PST >From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) >Subject: UFO over DEC >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: <0403260155.AA22846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> appeared in >Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:23:18 -0600 (CST) >Message-Id: <200403281323.i2SDMDJ7076710@huey.classiccmp.org> >From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org >Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 7, Issue 34 Whereas replies to that message >Message: 6 >Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:46:15 -0500 >From: "John Allain" >Subject: Re: UFO over DEC appeared three digests earlier and continued on through several others: >Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:53:09 -0600 (CST) >Message-Id: <200403280753.i2S7pHJ7072610@huey.classiccmp.org> >From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org >Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 7, Issue 31 Thank you. Dave. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 13:29:58 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040329192958.64575.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf > Of Joe R. > > Sent: 29 March 2004 18:12 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts > > Subject: Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > > > >Strange. I haven't found them that bad. > > > > Have you used them lately??? This morning I > tried to > > search for a driver for the ethernet card that is > built into > > my Dell GX110 computer. I searched for "dell gx110 > ethernet > > driver download" instead all I get are ads such as > "Buy > > I've noticed increasing adverts for unrelated things > to what I'm searching > for but it hasn't got so bad as to put me off yet. Its just starting to put me off, if you search for any specific retail item, you get tons of hits from companies claiming to have the specific item you're looking for. But when you click on the link it takes you to the home page of some retailer, you dig through all the sub catagories to find what you want and they either don't carry it or are out of stock. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Mon Mar 29 13:43:00 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <20040329192958.64575.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Its just starting to put me off, if you search for any > specific retail item, you get tons of hits from > companies claiming to have the specific item you're > looking for. But when you click on the link it takes > you to the home page of some retailer, you dig through > all the sub catagories to find what you want and they > either don't carry it or are out of stock. Actually, that's less offensive to me (at least the "out of stock" part of the issue--how would Google know?) than the sites that seem to make a business out of indexing eBay auctions, so when you click on the Google listing expecting to find a retailer, you get blasted to a site that then forwards you into eBay for a used/garbage item, or worse, a bunch of irrelevant items. :-/ But then, if you're looking for a retailer, have you tried Froogle? This is driven by feeds from the listing merchants, and my sense is that it's a good bit more current than the generic index for stock level and availability. --Patrick From norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com Mon Mar 29 13:42:42 2004 From: norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com (Norm Aleks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:24 2005 Subject: IBM System/36 and Nixdorf 600/45 available Message-ID: Free to good home: * a full-height Nixdorf rack, labeled 600/45, containing a 9-track capstan-type tape drive and another device that might be a terminal concentrator, or maybe something more interesting -- it does appear to have a floppy disk drive in it, but the cabinet's front door is locked and we didn't try very hard to get inside and look. * an IBM 5362 System/36 CPU, cosmetically OK (well, mostly), but with no software, cabling, terminals, or documentation. Would be a good source of spares for someone who has a 5362. We need this stuff out of our Oakland, CA warehouse space by Wednesday. Interested? E-mail me or call Brian Knittel at 510-559-7930. Thanks! Norm Aleks From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Mar 29 13:38:17 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <1080585292.14622.62.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1080585292.14622.62.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200403291946.OAA03921@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Google can't do case sensitive searches, as far as I can tell, which > annoys the hell out of me. Sometimes I've needed to search for > something that's an acronym, which just happens to be a legal word > too. I once had occasion to search for some NeXT stuff and ran into exactly this. I sent them mail about it. Got a boilerplate ack but nothing more. (Not an autoack; it looked human-sent, but reeked of boilerplate.) > Similarly, Google trying to be "helpful" can be a real pain, I spent quite some time struggling with their "sponsored links" when I was looking for a music typesetting engine called "smut". They appear to believe that it's beneficial to throw up sponsored links even when the search specifically indicates that it does not want those links. I wrote to them about this too. Their response? Not to fix it so that they don't return pages including terms the search specifically indicates are to be excluded - but rather to add "typesetting" to a list of words that (I infer) turn off "spam your results with pr0n ads" when searching for things like "smut" that I infer are commonly searched for by people going cruising for pr0n. Made it _very_ clear to me that they aren't there to help people doing searches (which I imagine is what a lot of people think); such people are no more than eyeballs being sold to advertisers. Obvious in retrospect.... > A search engine that just returns what you ask for from the web would > be nice - no indexing of news, mailing lists etc, no ads, and no > trying to be intelligent by stripping out words, modifying words, > randomly inserting or removing punctuation etc. Yeah. Problem is, where do you find the philanthropist to fund the petabytes of disk necessary and the farm of machines to search it? Google pays for that with advertiser's dollars. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 29 14:19:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I personally have no problems with Google, however, I recently ran > accross an interesting search engine. http://vivisimo.com/ It has > the interesting ability of putting what it finds into groups. VERY coool. I'm adding that to my toolbox. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 29 14:24:37 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: Message-ID: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> FWIW I have fairly few problems. I never put in common search words, only unique identifiers. Start with fully quoted strings E.G. "Heuristically Programmed Algorithmic", then back down to concatenateds, +Heuristically+Programmed+Algorithmic, or possibly just +Heuristically+Algorithmic then move to more common terms, like HAL 9000, which is what I suspect everybody does anyway. Having trouble finding out about a DEC LPS-11, however. (There simply may be too few sites having it) New topic... John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 29 15:06:47 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System References: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <005601c415d1$bfef5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I recently found a DEC LPS11 Laboratory Peripheral System, A peripheral for Unibus-11's. If anybody else has one, could they get in touch? I'm wlling to settle for compromises, that is, something less than a full manual. It's a fairly complx system so I'd like to know something more before I power it up. Could someone search a DEC Peripherals Handbook, 1971 - 1976+ range to see if it has anything on the LPS11? As a smaller problem, I haven't been able to find out what these modules are: from the LPS-11 (Laboratory Peripheral System) the M996 and M7023 modules from a PDP11: the G110 module Thanks for whatever you have, John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 29 15:15:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System References: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005601c415d1$bfef5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16488.37363.788393.971315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/pdf/dec/pdp11/PDP11_1976PeripheralsHbk.pdf Page 389 ("4-360") has the LPS11 section. paul From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 29 15:36:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System References: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><005601c415d1$bfef5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <16488.37363.788393.971315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000c01c415d5$ef41c9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ ... Page 389 Does sound great, I've been trying to access that for over 24 hours. Al says there's too much traffic right now, like there's a rush on his site for some reason. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 29 15:43:39 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System References: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005601c415d1$bfef5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <16488.37363.788393.971315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <000c01c415d5$ef41c9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16488.39051.308523.246497@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: >> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ ... Page 389 John> Does sound great, I've been trying to access that for over 24 John> hours. Al says there's too much traffic right now, like John> there's a rush on his site for some reason. I just tried it, it works for me. Perhaps a problem at your end? paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 29 16:25:06 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <20040329192958.64575.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve > Sent: 29 March 2004 20:30 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > looking for. But when you click on the link it takes > you to the home page of some retailer, you dig through > all the sub catagories to find what you want and they > either don't carry it or are out of stock. Yeah, I'd forgotten about that, also Patrick's mentions of the people who just index ebay listings....that's been an annoyance on frequent occasions, but I suppose that's not google's fault. Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 29 16:32:39 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 29 March 2004 19:23 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > I have the same problem as you whenever searching for > ANYTHING having to do with laptops. There are a million > companies out there all trying to hawk the same product, all > competing with each other. Quite annoying, and as a result I > can hardly ever find anything useful when I'm searching for > information about laptops. Haha! Don't get me started on trying to find ANYTHING useful about relatively modern stuff - you're spot on with laptop info; Mrs Witchy occasionally has grief with her school laptops, and while that should be the responsibility of the school and it's government sponsored technicians they're mostly worse than shit so I try and find repair info/spares myself.....an impossible task as I've found so far..... Now that the money grabbers have discovered how to make bucks from search engines the likes of us hobbyists are right out in the backwaters unless we have more patience than someone with lots of patience......so I've found up to now anyway..... Cheers w From acme at gbronline.com Mon Mar 29 16:59:46 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Google rankings (was Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine?) References: Message-ID: <01a601c415e1$88abc580$eb4f0945@thegoodw> Sellam wrote: > Joe, this is not Google (well, not directly). This is idiot companies > who've learned how to game Google to get their site returned as the top > result. There's a whole science behind it. My experience suggests there's a lot more than "science" going on here. When I first set up the web site for my fledgling TV/Stereo repair parts business, I read all the available literature about optimizing search results and really did my homework before I submitted to Google or any other engine. Sure enough, after I submitted my site, "TV repair parts" brought me up as the first Google listing! Shortly after that I took out a Google AdWords ad -- these are the pay-per-click ads which Google displays on the right side of the screen. I ran the ad campaign for several weeks and got a lot of clicks (which I had to pay for) but very few orders as compared to people who just found me in the regular Google listings. So, I stopped the pay-per-click campaign, and GUESS WHAT?? My Google ranking immediately dropped to the point where "TV repair parts" puts me somewhere around the 15th page, depending on the time of day and phase of the moon. Coincidence? I don't think so. I believe Google stepped on my rankings when I stopped paying them. I've since done some things to enable people to find me by searching for specific part numbers, but nothing I do elevates my ranking for "TV repair parts" or "stereo repair parts," both of which started out in the number one position. Glen 0/0 Oh -- almost forgot -- http://www.acme-sales.net :-) From lists at microvax.org Mon Mar 29 17:09:23 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC T11 Dev boards on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403300009.23971.lists@microvax.org> I'm normally loath to post ebay links, but: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4120552110&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:1 DEC T11 Development Boards - working, with chips and boards and manuals and prints, and the original PSU... 5 days left, it's on ?5 at the moment. If anyone in the US wants it i'll act as a re-mailer for you ;) alex/melt From lists at microvax.org Mon Mar 29 17:12:32 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: SNMP management Message-ID: <200403300012.32696.lists@microvax.org> Hey guys Did DEC ever produce SNMP management software for Windows? I'm drawing a blank on 'managing' my DEChub90 as [the GPL software i've got for Linux doesn't have the right MIBs loaded/I don't understand SNMP very much at all] - and I was thinking that DEC's own software would make it easier. Any links, or recommendations for a Windows/Linux/Java SNMP browser? alex/melt From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Mar 29 17:22:28 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Google rankings (was Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine?) References: <01a601c415e1$88abc580$eb4f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: <16488.44980.504457.405775@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Glen" == Glen Goodwin writes: Glen> Glen> Shortly after that I took out a Google AdWords ad -- these are Glen> the pay-per-click ads which Google displays on the right side Glen> of the screen. I ran the ad campaign for several weeks and got Glen> a lot of clicks (which I had to pay for) ... There was an item in the news a few days ago about a guy who was arrested on charges of blackmailing Google. He supposedly created a robot that would click on the ads that Google had placed on various websites, thus causing Google to be billed for those clicks. He offered to stop doing that if paid a suitable sum. It may be that you were the victim of something similar, perhaps vandals rather than blackmailers but using the same mechanisms. paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 29 17:26:26 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <1080585292.14622.62.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1080585292.14622.62.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040329151047.R3818@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Similarly, Google trying to be "helpful" can be a real pain, when it > goes and tries to be clever about finding results (returning not only > matches to what you searched for, but other things it considers close). > "Stemming" they seem to call it. Trouble is there seems to be no way of > turning it off... "Stemming" is the canonical term in IR ("Information Retrieval") for the process of stripping off prefixes, suffixes, plurals, etc. to attempt to find a match for the base word, not the specific string of characters. For example, should "diagrams" be considered a match for "diagram", "viruses" and "virii" match "virus"? Google seems to have a unique use of "+". 'course, as George Morrow said, "Standards are wonderful; everyone should have one of their own." In many search systems, "A+B" means presence of A AND presence of B. (In some digital electronics texts, "AB" means A AND B, and "A+B" means A OR B.) In Google, "+" seems to mean turn off the stemming, and reject any pages that do not have that EXACT search term present. Therefore, "A+B" would mean an exact match for B and a "loose" match for A. In many search systems, "next" is a "stopword" - a word that is ignored, (such as A, AN, THE, ...) because it is presumed to not help the search process. In a system that has no options for case sensitivity, how do you search for "NeXT"?? > A search engine that just returns what you ask for from the web would be > nice - no indexing of news, mailing lists etc, no ads, and no trying to > be intelligent by stripping out words, modifying words, randomly > inserting or removing punctuation etc. It would be GREAT to have a system that let you control such "features". But how many people would actually learn how to use it? What percentage of the users are looking for something more involved than "Britney Spears naked"? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com suggested readings: Frakes "Information Retrieval Data Structures and Algorithms" Salton "Automated Text Processing" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 29 16:45:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: electronics workbench In-Reply-To: <000e01c41539$b9c178c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Mar 28, 4 08:58:33 pm Message-ID: > > My amount of test equipment has outgrown my workbench setup, so I need to > look at setting up or building a bench. I've got the current bench so > crowded with gear it's hard to work already, plus I've got a lot of test > gear that isn't on the bench and should be. i'd love to get the laptop a > spot on the bench too (lots of room it would take up) So.... My view is that laptops are incompatible with hot soldering irons, power tools, etc... But anyway. There is an excellent book called 'The Radio and Eleectronics Laboratory Handbook' by M. G. Scroggie. Although somewhat dated (the edition I have covers valves only), and although it's about setting up a lab for analogue/radio work, it's still got a lot of useful tips in it. Try to track down a copy. The next thing is that you need to consider how much your test gear is used at the workbench rather than elsewhere. If you work on minicomputers and your main item of test gear is a LogicDart, then you take the instrument to the machine. If you work on ZX81s using a Tektronix 555 'scope, then you bring the machien to the instrument. This will determine if you need to make a permanent home for it at the bench or not. Think what instruments you need. One that many people forget, but which I'd include if I was setting up a workbench for microcomputer repairs is a video monitor (to cover all the standards you're likely to need). Possibly on one of those pivoting arms. A serial terminal on the bench can be very useful too (or you can use an HP95LX or something if you're pressed for space). You can never have too many power points. Allow at least 1 (preferably 1.5) for every instrument on the bench ('scope, logic analyser, bench PSU, video monitor, soldering iron, etc). And have plenty of them -- possibly a 'portable' distribution board ('power strip' I think) for the device under test. > test equipment close with the faces all well accessible. But haven't found > the best place to put the power strips. I'd arrange mains distribution at the back of the bench for the 'fixed' instruments, and have a least one portable strip that cna be brought to the front for the device under test. Try to have a master switch that will kill power to everything on the bench (and, although this will provoke flamage again, I'd make it double pole). Make sure everyone in the house knows how to turn off power in an emergency. -tony From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Mar 29 17:35:03 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope Message-ID: <000001c415e6$762f28c0$947ba8c0@p933> I was out driving today and noticed a pile of stuff sitting under a "Free" sign. One of the items caught my eye because of the dials, knobs and round screen on the front. It turned out to be a Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope (1958 vintage according to my limited Googling - which DID turn up relevant results.) It's missing a couple of the plastic caps to the banana jacks on the front, but is otherwise complete. I powered it up and it seems to work (An adjustable horizontal line appears on the CRT, anyway.) Not bad for a street corner find. So, does anyone have any info; docs or otherwise? Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 29 17:39:53 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: SNMP management In-Reply-To: <200403300012.32696.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 30 March 2004 00:13 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: SNMP management > > Hey guys > > Did DEC ever produce SNMP management software for Windows? > I'm drawing a blank on 'managing' my DEChub90 as [the GPL > software i've got for Linux doesn't have the right MIBs > loaded/I don't understand SNMP very much at all] - and I was > thinking that DEC's own software would make it easier. Yup, I think they did, but I'm struggling to remember whether it was for purely the DEChub900 only or both. I remember doing SNMP management on DH900 stuff and I'm sure there was software for the DH90 bridge module too.....remind me offlist and I'll try and dig the options catalogues out. Cheers w From lists at microvax.org Mon Mar 29 17:45:02 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: SNMP management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403300045.02463.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 00:39, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > > Sent: 30 March 2004 00:13 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: SNMP management > > > > Hey guys > > > > Did DEC ever produce SNMP management software for Windows? > > I'm drawing a blank on 'managing' my DEChub90 as [the GPL > > software i've got for Linux doesn't have the right MIBs > > loaded/I don't understand SNMP very much at all] - and I was > > thinking that DEC's own software would make it easier. > > Yup, I think they did, but I'm struggling to remember whether it was for > purely the DEChub900 only or both. I remember doing SNMP management on > DH900 stuff and I'm sure there was software for the DH90 bridge module > too.....remind me offlist and I'll try and dig the options catalogues > out. I've not got a bridge90, i've got a repeater90TS which the manual and initial firmware setup suggest it's capable of managing the entire hub (or more, if they're daisychained together)... alex/melt From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 29 17:54:02 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope Message-ID: <200403292354.PAA18951@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Erik Does your wife know you were out wondering the streets? Dwight >From: "Erik S. Klein" > >I was out driving today and noticed a pile of stuff sitting under a >"Free" sign. One of the items caught my eye because of the dials, knobs >and round screen on the front. > >It turned out to be a Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope (1958 vintage according >to my limited Googling - which DID turn up relevant results.) > >It's missing a couple of the plastic caps to the banana jacks on the >front, but is otherwise complete. I powered it up and it seems to work >(An adjustable horizontal line appears on the CRT, anyway.) > >Not bad for a street corner find. > >So, does anyone have any info; docs or otherwise? > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 29 17:55:08 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope References: <200403292354.PAA18951@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4068B75C.7040900@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Erik > Does your wife know you were out wondering the streets? > Dwight Its not like it is a Naked Mini. :) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 29 18:04:49 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Problem with ESDI drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040329155930.O3818@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Bradley Slavik wrote: > Dear Classic Computing Community, > I goofed when I was transferring data from a Compaq Deskpro 286 to my modern > machine via 1.2MB 5.25" floppy. Machine was difficult to boot due to > problems with config.sys and autoexec.bat. This time instead of booting from > DOS 4.0.1 floppy, I boot from startup program floppy which helpfully offered > to fix problems accessing hard drive. WHICH version of MS-DOS was it? Be aware that MS-DOS 3.31 was the first version that could handle a drive partition larger than 32M! > When I put card and drive in Pentium it will not boot. It counts memory and > freezes. I have tried a number of ways to configure the dip switches and > play with the setup program on this machine. Machine is a Packard Bell 401CD Have you successfully convinced the Packard Bell to not use the IDE drive port? Play with it until you get it to accept that the IDE isn't working. THEN install the drive and card. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 29 18:31:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: IBM 5140 up for grabs in Sillycon Valley Message-ID: Please contact James directly. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:33:54 -0800 From: James Ludos To: donate@vintage.org Subject: IBM 5140 Hi, I don't know if you need it or not but I have an IBM 5140 I want to get rid of. As far as I know it works fine. I am in Los Gatos just off of Hwy17 near Lark Ave. Thanks James Ludos -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 29 19:10:14 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System" (Mar 29, 16:06) References: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005601c415d1$bfef5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10403300210.ZM3015@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 16:06, John Allain wrote: > I recently found a DEC LPS11 Laboratory Peripheral System, > A peripheral for Unibus-11's. If anybody else has one, could > they get in touch? I'm wlling to settle for compromises, that > is, something less than a full manual. I used to have one, and I think I may still have the manual, if you don't find something downloadable or over your own side of the pond. If I gave the manual away with the LPS11, I can easily borrow it back, as it went to a colleague at work and it's in his office along with the 11/34 it's attached to :-) (an hour later) I still have the Maintenance Manual. It's about 120-130 pages. What do you need to know? > As a smaller problem, I haven't been able to find out > what these modules are: > > from the LPS-11 (Laboratory Peripheral System) > the M996 and M7023 modules M996 is the hex-height Connector And Shield Board which lives in slot 6 of the LPS11. It has the connectors for the display, ADCs, etc on it. M7023 doesn't appear in my manual, but I have the DEC-O-LOG fiche. It's an LPSDR-A, which is a 16-bit digital latch. > from a PDP11: the G110 module That's part of a core memory subsystem -- "Control And Data Loops" for an MM11-K, MM11-L, or MF11. Pretty old -- about 1971 or 1972. -- Peter Turnbull From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 29 19:32:00 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: electronics workbench In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: electronics workbench" (Mar 29, 23:45) References: Message-ID: <10403300232.ZM3082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 23:45, Tony Duell wrote: > The next thing is that you need to consider how much your test gear is > used at the workbench rather than elsewhere. If you work on minicomputers > and your main item of test gear is a LogicDart, then you take the > instrument to the machine. If you work on ZX81s using a Tektronix 555 > 'scope, then you bring the machien to the instrument. This will determine > if you need to make a permanent home for it at the bench or not. > > Think what instruments you need. One that many people forget, but which > I'd include if I was setting up a workbench for microcomputer repairs is > a video monitor (to cover all the standards you're likely to need). > Possibly on one of those pivoting arms. A serial terminal on the bench > can be very useful too (or you can use an HP95LX or something if you're > pressed for space). > > > You can never have too many power points. Interesting. That sounds not unlike my bench. It's a sensible height for sitting (decide whether you want a chair, a stool, or whatever). It has steel support legs angled in such a way as to support the front of the bench (I can stand on it without qualms) yet not to get in the way of my knees, and still be mostly vertical. Apart from that, it's wooden, and has a mat in the centre so that things don't get scratched. There's a row of 13A power sockets along the back wall in an almost unbroken line (and half a dozen network/structured wiring RJ45 sockets). A couple of them are European Schuko sockets. Some of the sockets are on one breaker, some on another (one set has an RCD, one doesn't). There are a few more mounted under the front edge of the bench. There's a scope on a wall-mount swivel base, a monitor, DVM, and Avo 8 on the bench at one side and an SGI Indy on the other side. The other things like PSUs, signal generator, etc are at the back or on a shelf. There's a striplight-type desklamp to one side, in front of a wall of components drawers, and next to that are a load of hooks for test leads, video cables, etc. Amongst the things that live permanently on the bench top are my soldering iron, and a small vice. Some of the things used for testing live on a trolley nearby, along with a BBC Micro, and the scope can be moved to the trolley if necesary. There's another trolley with a toolbox also nearby. It isn't actually very big (as Jules and one or two other listmembers can testify), in fact it's quite small. Crowded, even. I'll reiterate the last line I preserved from Tony's post. You can never have too many power points. Or RJ45s. -- Peter Turnbull From ceby2 at csc.com Mon Mar 29 19:54:56 2004 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Got a IBM 5362 Today (Keys) Message-ID: Keys -- Sorry I didn't pick this up over the weekend.... Here's what you have: _S/36 Midrange Server_ o Arch: 16bit o CPUs: 1 IO proc x 1 CP prc o Mem: 128k - 2MB o Disk: 20MB - 120MB ( 1 or 2 14" HDD), 1.2MB 8" FDD This was IBM's main midrange offering through the 80s and into the 90s. It was replaced by the AS/400 (which usually has an S/36 compatibility mode available). If you've ever worked with AS/400s, you'll find the system a less feature rich version of much the same thing. What I must emphasize is this is not a PC. Nor is there a BSD / Linux variant for it. This machine has much more in common with s/360 hardware architecture than i386. The data storage is a flat address space. It's organized into libraries, members and files. A typical application relies on a fixed field length data file format, separate sort and query facilities. IBM has invented relational databases, but the were only available on the more exotic S/38. Here were looking at flat datastructures. Generally speaking one programmed this in RPG II language, although there were editions of COBOL , FORTRAN and BASIC available. It's target audience was the same as Novell's. IBM saw the S/36 as the hub of many PCs with 5250 adapter cards. The nodes could share data through the server, use shared printing and data storage, even use an e-mail like messaging system -- and yet they would still have their standalone facilities if required. Once on your System/36, you could explore centrally managed access to mainframes, peer, or hub and spoke arranged hosts of varying kinds. You could could even call in via modem pool from home. Most people don't view IBM offerings as sexy, but this was very straightforward server platform that provided reliability, shared resources and connectivity. A lot of small to medium sized companies powered them up and kept them in service for a decade before moving to a more PC oriented client server platform in the 90s. These critters are still humming away in dusty corners of 3rd world in suprising numbers. So what are you gonna do with it now? The dual processors and their dispatching system haven't peaked the interest of the hobbyist. And the system architecture isn't well documented, at least not in the public domain.That rules out a Linux or BSD variant. You will have to run S/36 on it unless your an assembler god with top notch contacts in an IBM retirement home. That's where this whole thing becomes sticky. Your post indicated you didn't have media or manuals. The first part of the manual conundrum may be easy. Your model -- the middle tier in the range -- had it's hardware manual strapped to the inside of the cover panel. You may already have worked that out in the midst of cleaning the dust out. There are no manuals available in the public realm that I know of. That's where I come in. I have most of the available media and manuals. I have a few things scanned -- although the scans are huge. Media's tricky. There's no IBM hobbyist policy. In theory you still have to buy licenses. So I would suggest you do what I did. Call around the AS/400 houses and watch eBay for any listings of used 8" diskettes with IBM labels. But before you do any of that, see if you can get it running as is. You may not need media. These beasts are tough. The drives don't generally go bad. The first thing you need is a cleaning, some kind of 5250 compatible device plugged into the first workstation port... and lots of luck. I recommend a real green screen. PC emulators have so many possible settings, it's more predictable to plug up a real terminal. If you get to an IPL settings screen we can talk about how to get past security, and what kinds of snags you're likely to find. Regards, Colin Eby From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 29 20:46:09 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: DEC LPS-11 Laboratory Peripheral System References: <002401c415cb$dbb78b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005601c415d1$bfef5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <10403300210.ZM3015@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <004701c41601$288500c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > (an hour later) I still have the Maintenance Manual. It's about >120-130 pages. What do you need to know? (another hour later) Thanks for responding! What do I need? Well, it's kind of a don't know what I don't know kind of thing. will continue offline. John A. From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Mar 29 20:48:39 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H Message-ID: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Not entirely certain its on topic.. if it is, its just barely.. Anyone know much about'm? In particularly, sources of electronic hardware documentation? (Service Guide?) I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . Speaking of Google, googling for the above subject turns up a few billion memory dealers, and a few SpecInt pages. :-( David From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 29 20:51:27 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope In-Reply-To: <000001c415e6$762f28c0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: > So, does anyone have any info; docs or otherwise? Save yourself a headache. Open the scope, pull the tubes, pull the knobs, and chuck the rest. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Mar 29 21:00:53 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <200403292200.53770.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 29 March 2004 21:48, David Holland wrote: > Not entirely certain its on topic.. if it is, its just barely.. > > Anyone know much about'm? In particularly, sources of electronic > hardware documentation? (Service Guide?) > > I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go > have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm > pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . > > Speaking of Google, googling for the above subject turns up a few > billion memory dealers, and a few SpecInt pages. :-( > > David First, you want the "Adapters, Devices, and Cable Information for Micro Channel Bus Systems" doc, which is at: http://publib16.boulder.ibm.com/pseries/en_US/infocenter/base/hardware_docs/pdf/380533.pdf Next, you'll want "Diagnostic Information or Micro Channel Bus Systems" at: http://publib16.boulder.ibm.com/pseries/en_US/infocenter/base/hardware_docs/pdf/a4af5bas.pdf IBM has lots of documentation for AIX and their hardware from: http://publib16.boulder.ibm.com/pseries/en_US/infocenter/base/ Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Mar 29 21:01:02 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > So, does anyone have any info; docs or otherwise? > > Save yourself a headache. Open the scope, pull the tubes, pull the knobs, > and chuck the rest. Save a Heath Collector a heartache. If you don't want the item, list it on VCFM, or (gasp!!) eBay.... and, there are several Heatkit collectors groups, like ours... at least, you migt have the unit someone needs to restore one.... And Bill, what would he do with the gutz, if he isn't really a gear-slut, like us... ? "Hey, look! I have the CRT and knobs from an old oscilloscope - will you marry me *now*???" ;} Cheerz John (who has four of the little beasties in storage) > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 29 21:07:23 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> from "David Holland" at Mar 29, 2004 09:48:39 PM Message-ID: <200403300307.i2U37NO3022927@onyx.spiritone.com> > Not entirely certain its on topic.. if it is, its just barely.. Closer than I expected.... > Anyone know much about'm? In particularly, sources of electronic > hardware documentation? (Service Guide?) Have you checked the IBM Website? > I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go > have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm > pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . I'll warn you, AIX (pronounced Aches) isn't the most fun of OS's, for a Unix box at home, I prefer IRIX, Solaris, or for a secure system OpenBSD. > Speaking of Google, googling for the above subject turns up a few > billion memory dealers, and a few SpecInt pages. :-( Just so happens I keep that info around for a lot of the older systems.... System CPU ClkMHz Cache SPECint SPECfp Info Name (NUMx)Type ext/in Ext+I/D 95 95 Date ================= ========== ======= ========== ======= ======= ===== IBM 59H/R20 POWER2 66 1M+32/128 3.37 9.80 Sep96 Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 29 21:16:00 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Mar 29, 2004 10:01:02 PM Message-ID: <200403300316.i2U3G0C2023093@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Save yourself a headache. Open the scope, pull the tubes, pull the knobs, > > and chuck the rest. > > Save a Heath Collector a heartache. If you don't want the item, list it > on VCFM, or (gasp!!) eBay.... and, there are several Heatkit collectors > groups, like ours... at least, you migt have the unit someone needs to > restore one.... I agree, besides it sounds as if the scope is largely functional, a lot more so than my Dad's (and he's the only owner). It's more likely some Heathkit collector might be interested in getting it, and fixing it up. I've got to confess I've always thought that the OM-3 was kind of cool looking. Having said that I'll stick with my Tek TDS-220. Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 29 21:17:48 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Save a Heath Collector a heartache. If you don't want the item, list it > on VCFM, or (gasp!!) eBay.... and, there are several Heatkit collectors > groups, like ours... at least, you migt have the unit someone needs to > restore one.... Every Heath collector out there probably has had ten of the things. Certainly there are rare Heathkits out there - if Mr. Klein found a CONELRAD monitor by Heath, I would have told him to guard it with his life. > And Bill, what would he do with the gutz, if he isn't really a > gear-slut, like us... ? "Hey, look! I have the CRT and knobs from an old > oscilloscope - will you marry me *now*???" I just can't stand the sight of someone throwing away tubes. Unless I get to pull them out of the dumpster five minutes after... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 29 21:43:18 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:25 2005 Subject: electronics workbench References: <10403300232.ZM3082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <4068ECD6.6090007@jetnet.ab.ca> Pete Turnbull wrote: < stuff for bench > Lets not forget a fire extinguisher! From rcini at optonline.net Mon Mar 29 21:44:16 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files Message-ID: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: I just moved most of my collection of on-line data to a new server here at home. I want to verify that all files have been copied and I didn't miss any directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a drag-and-drop across the network. What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT (Server) and I'm looking at about 22gb of files of various types -- from music to source code. Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby for this verification before I wipe it clean for sale. Thanks again. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Mar 29 22:22:43 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <200403300307.i2U37NO3022927@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Mar 29, 4 07:07:23 pm" Message-ID: <200403300422.UAA13688@floodgap.com> > > I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go > > have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm > > pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . > > I'll warn you, AIX (pronounced Aches) isn't the most fun of OS's, for a Unix > box at home, I prefer IRIX, Solaris, or for a secure system OpenBSD. Hey now, I *like* AIX! :) (recovering system admin and I maintain my own couple of AIX boxen in my apartment) smit happens, you know. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- This geek BRKs for 6502s. -------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 29 22:15:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: electronics workbench In-Reply-To: <10403300232.ZM3082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 30, 4 02:32:00 am Message-ID: > > Interesting. That sounds not unlike my bench. It's a sensible height You lucky thing. I was saying what I would like my bench to be like, not what it actually is like... > for sitting (decide whether you want a chair, a stool, or whatever). > It has steel support legs angled in such a way as to support the front > of the bench (I can stand on it without qualms) yet not to get in the > way of my knees, and still be mostly vertical. Apart from that, it's > wooden, and has a mat in the centre so that things don't get scratched. > There's a row of 13A power sockets along the back wall in an almost > unbroken line (and half a dozen network/structured wiring RJ45 Well, I guess if your machines are modern enough to have RJ45 connectors for ethernet, etc.... > sockets). A couple of them are European Schuko sockets. Some of the If possible, have a good isolating transformer. Almost essential if you work on SMPSUs. Also think about having both 110 and 220V outlets -- the ability to plug in just anything from either side of the Pond, at least for testing is very useful. > for test leads, video cables, etc. Amongst the things that live > permanently on the bench top are my soldering iron, and a small vice. My iron is normally on my bench, but I do move it around for work on minicomputers, etc As an aside here, if you're in the UK and work on DEC machines, make up adapter cables for 13A mains plug to US 234V socket and US 234V plug to 13A mains socket so you can (a) plug a DEC unit in on your bench for testing and (b) can run your soldering iron, 'scope, etc off the power distribution unit at the back of your DEC rack. Although I don't do much heavy metalwork on my electronics bench, I agree a small vice is very useful. For pressing on iDC connectors, holding things when soldering, etc. Chasing a DIN plug around the benchtop with a hot soldering iron is not my idea of fun! -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Mar 29 23:26:27 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <20040329192958.64575.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040329192958.64575.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040330002627.7ab5d1b8.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:29:58 -0800 (PST) steve wrote: > > --- Witchy wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf > > Of Joe R. > > > Sent: 29 March 2004 18:12 > > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > Posts > > > Subject: Re: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? > > > > > > >Strange. I haven't found them that bad. > > > > > > Have you used them lately??? This morning I > > tried to > > > search for a driver for the ethernet card that is > > built into > > > my Dell GX110 computer. I searched for "dell gx110 > > ethernet > > > driver download" instead all I get are ads such as > > "Buy > > > > I've noticed increasing adverts for unrelated things > > to what I'm searching > > for but it hasn't got so bad as to put me off yet. > > > Its just starting to put me off, if you search for any > specific retail item, you get tons of hits from > companies claiming to have the specific item you're > looking for. But when you click on the link it takes > you to the home page of some retailer, you dig through > all the sub catagories to find what you want and they > either don't carry it or are out of stock. > The nightmare I have experienced recently is trying to get any information on older Laptops. I.e. I have taken a liking for Toshiba 2100 series 486 laptops. If you try to search Google for anything relating to them, i.e. to find out what speed processor they have in them, what video chip they use, you're deluged with Laptop Battery ads for batteries priced at 2-5 times what you paid for the laptop. From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Mar 29 23:44:32 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <200403300422.UAA13688@floodgap.com> References: <200403300307.i2U37NO3022927@onyx.spiritone.com> <200403300422.UAA13688@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20040330004432.016819e4.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:22:43 -0800 (PST) Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go > > > have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm > > > pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . > > > > I'll warn you, AIX (pronounced Aches) isn't the most fun of OS's, for a Unix > > box at home, I prefer IRIX, Solaris, or for a secure system OpenBSD. > > Hey now, I *like* AIX! :) (recovering system admin and I maintain my own > couple of AIX boxen in my apartment) smit happens, you know. > And I am proud that I just got AIX 4.3 up and running on an ancient 320H RS/6000 box. One of the neater things about it is that it's so old that the "Power" processor on it is actually a board with five or so chips. Not cool like a CPU that's a wirewrap panel of TTL, of course. Now I'd like to find a microchannel ethernet card for it that is twisted pair, because right now it's only connection to the 'real world' is the serial console (it has no video card), and thin-coax ethernet, which I haven't run in a long time here at home. From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Mon Mar 29 13:39:28 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Diagnostic Box? In-Reply-To: <40673D53.C1E00CFE@rain.org> References: <40673D53.C1E00CFE@rain.org> Message-ID: <1080589167.23947.44.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 22:02, Marvin Johnston wrote: > At the TRW swap meet yesterday, I ran across this box: > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/box.jpg. The reason I bought it was that the > overlays had some words that rang of old mainframe computers. There are > three double sided overlays to define what the LEDs mean with > designations such as "Print Scan Counter", "Print Character Generator", > etc. Another overlay has the heading "2314/2841 TROS SAL BITS". There > are two rectangular connectors with cables to connect to whatever this > thing is doing something with:). The only label on the box says > "Infinite Computer". Anyone have any idea what this thing is and is used > for? The 2314 is an IBM disk drive (28MB) which has an integrated controller (the CHM has one next to their 360/30). The 2841 is a standalone controller for the 2311 drives (7MB) and other DASD units. TROS (Transformer Read Only Storage) is the microcode storage used in these units, so what you have is a (presumably multipurpose) Field Engineering unit. See http://www.punch-card.co.uk/storage.htm The other overlays are almost certainly for a line printer. The 2841 had a small internal diagnostic panel, but presumably not enough lights to display the entire microcode word. I'm not sure when the 2314 was introduced, maybe 1966/7 or so. LJW -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 30 00:52:20 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Diagnostic Box? References: <40673D53.C1E00CFE@rain.org> <1080589167.23947.44.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <40691924.2EF0E574@rain.org> Thanks for the information! With all the responses I've been getting, I am most happy I saved this thing from who knows what :). Nice information on the site you gave. BTW, the largest core *I've* seen was used on a PDP16 computer on the constants card. IIRC, the cores had about 1/2" OD and wires were physically routed through the cores by hand to define the constants used by the particular program running. Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 22:02, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > At the TRW swap meet yesterday, I ran across this box: > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/box.jpg. The reason I bought it was that the > > overlays had some words that rang of old mainframe computers. There are > > three double sided overlays to define what the LEDs mean with > > designations such as "Print Scan Counter", "Print Character Generator", > > etc. Another overlay has the heading "2314/2841 TROS SAL BITS". There > > are two rectangular connectors with cables to connect to whatever this > > thing is doing something with:). The only label on the box says > > "Infinite Computer". Anyone have any idea what this thing is and is used > > for? > > The 2314 is an IBM disk drive (28MB) which has an integrated controller > (the CHM has one next to their 360/30). The 2841 is a standalone > controller for the 2311 drives (7MB) and other DASD units. > > TROS (Transformer Read Only Storage) is the microcode storage used in > these units, so what you have is a (presumably multipurpose) Field > Engineering unit. See http://www.punch-card.co.uk/storage.htm > > The other overlays are almost certainly for a line printer. > > The 2841 had a small internal diagnostic panel, but presumably not > enough lights to display the entire microcode word. > > I'm not sure when the 2314 was introduced, maybe 1966/7 or so. > > LJW > > -- > Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk > Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 30 01:09:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Need Alpha Microsystems Videotrax hardware Message-ID: I'm in need of an Alpha Microsystems Videotrax tape backup unit (made backups to VHS tape). I can use any hardware including controllers, etc. but the Videotrax unit itself (a modified VCR) would be ideal. Cash or trade. Need soon. Please contact me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 30 01:29:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: electronics workbench In-Reply-To: ben franchuk "Re: electronics workbench" (Mar 29, 20:43) References: <10403300232.ZM3082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4068ECD6.6090007@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <10403300829.ZM3327@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 20:43, ben franchuk wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > < stuff for bench > > > Lets not forget a fire extinguisher! In fact there is one, a CO2 extiguisher about 2 feet from the bench. -- Peter Turnbull From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 30 01:39:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: electronics workbench In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: electronics workbench" (Mar 30, 5:15) References: Message-ID: <10403300839.ZM3333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 30, 5:15, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Well, I guess if your machines are modern enough to have RJ45 connectors > for ethernet, etc.... Many do, but a lot have AUI connectors. However, 10baseT transceivers and microtransceivers are cheap and easy to come by. Well, for me anyway :-) Structured wiring is also useful for serial connections, a phone line, ISDN, and all sorts of other things. > If possible, have a good isolating transformer. Almost essential if you > work on SMPSUs. Also think about having both 110 and 220V outlets -- the > ability to plug in just anything from either side of the Pond, at least > for testing is very useful. I have an isolating transformer, which lives under the bench. I've almost never needed 110V, but one day I'll find a cheap transformer. > My iron is normally on my bench, but I do move it around for work on > minicomputers, etc As an aside here, if you're in the UK and work on DEC > machines, make up adapter cables for 13A mains plug to US 234V socket and > US 234V plug to 13A mains socket so you can (a) plug a DEC unit in on > your bench for testing and (b) can run your soldering iron, 'scope, etc > off the power distribution unit at the back of your DEC rack. I've got an adaptor but since there's a DEC rack right behind me as I sit at the bench, and the room is small, I rarely need to plug anything in at the back of a DEC rack. Anyway, the adjacent rack has a 13A rackmount power on it, and there are several 13A sockets on the wall behind the other racks (three racks in total). > Although I don't do much heavy metalwork on my electronics bench, I agree > a small vice is very useful. For pressing on iDC connectors, holding > things when soldering, etc. Chasing a DIN plug around the benchtop with a > hot soldering iron is not my idea of fun! The vice in question is too small and light for crimping connectors. I just use it for holding D-connectors, or holding multicore cables when I tin the ends. But the adjacent bench has a proper engineer's vice (a Record No.3), and there's a 3" vice on a Workmate at the other end of the room (all of 4 metres away). -- Peter Turnbull From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 30 02:25:14 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Problem with ESDI drive In-Reply-To: References: <200403281800.i2SI08J4077663@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040330002439.052edec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 09:02 AM 3/29/2004, you wrote: >When I put card and drive in Pentium it will not boot. It counts memory and >freezes. I have tried a number of ways to configure the dip switches and >play with the setup program on this machine. Machine is a Packard Bell 401CD You need to dsable the onboard IDE controller. then it should boot fine. From Wolfgang.Eichberger at bps.at Tue Mar 30 02:18:59 2004 From: Wolfgang.Eichberger at bps.at (Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: IBM and SIEMENS - Gear. Please Help to identify... Message-ID: Dear Classic Computing Community, I'm on this list for quite a while an enjoy reading very much. As long I have room for I'm collecting a bit myself. Some time ago I came in touch with our local museum. They collected some stuff an put it in their storage years ago. They eventually put the machines on display in future. The storage had moved to another building and most of the information about the systems in storage has been lost. In the last weeks i tried to identify most of the bigger stuff, but now I'm stuck. It seems that there are a couple IBM-Systems, but I'm not familiar with IBM. As long I found out: There is an 1131 CPU and a 1403 Printer - I think this machine (CPU and Printer) is rather complete. I contacted the guys at ibm1130.org last week, they are very nice and helpful! Does anybody know what power connection would be needed to fire this one up? With _lots_ of cleaning and some repair work it should be in working order... Then we have a Pile of various IBM-Stuff, which I cannot determine which belongs together. I hope you can help out a bit - I'll list the stuff below: 2319-Disk Storage 2821-Control Unit 3047-Power Unit - I couln't find anything on this box... 3145-Processing Unit - This should be a Sys/370 Model 145, as far I found out... 3215-Console - Maybe for the 3145? 3330-Disk, 3 Cabinets. 3741-Data Station. Like the one seen on http://fwtunesco.org/musi/wolz/ but with only one drive. 3830-Storage Control - Disk? I have no details on this. Suggestions? 5415-Processing Unit - System 3 Model 15 is all I know... 5445-??? It should be some sort of Mass Storage Controller... One Dual Drive for - I think - Disk Stacks/Packs, It is a top loading device, like 2 washing machines side by side... - I couldn't read the number as it's near the wall and I could not move it. There is another Diskdrive too, wich seems to be like the 3330, but some different... All I could do is to list the devices. As I have 2 CPU's I think there are 2 Systems. Any suggestions? There is some Siemens Stuff too... One System 300/320 Processor Cabinet with 2 additional Racks. A System 300-R10 Processor Rack. The machines look like 16-Bit, with nice blinkenlights and flipswitches. A papertape-reader/punch and a dual 9(?)-track drive (on this drive there are still 2 tapes loaded - One is labeled System) are the only peripherals i have. I really want to get the tape off the drive to a) read it or b) store it in adequate environment. Is there some information present about siemens stuff? I googled for a while, but there was nothing really statisfying info out there... In Addition to all above we have a "Data 100 Batch Terminal" wich seems to be a card reader/punch. Does somebody know them? Some Documentation should be here, but as with all the docs I couldn't dig through all the binders and boxes ... Please excuse my horrible english, but I hope you could imagine what has been meant :) My best Regards, Wolfgang Eichberger PS.: For my private Interests I am looking for a PDP 11/23 maybe with one or two RL02 drives, if somebody knows some sources. It could be a different processor or a nice microvax as well :) ======================================================================= Wolfgang Eichberger?????????????????? phone: +43-732-7720-12655 ????????????????????????????????????? cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 Qualit?tsmanager, EDV - Koordinator?? fax? : +43-732-7720-12918 ????????????????????????????????????? email: wolfgang.eichberger@bps.at ----------------------------------------------------------------------- O?. Boden- und Baustoffpr?fstelle GmbH K?rntnerstra?e 12, 4020 Linz - AUSTRIA ======================================================================= ? From cc at corti-net.de Tue Mar 30 02:04:37 2004 From: cc at corti-net.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 10:39:28AM +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > There is a Zuse Z23 from the 50's in Karlsruhe / Germany. > Correction, it is a Z22: http://pl.attitu.de/zuse/Welcome.html I've been in Karlsruhe two times yet. It is a real Z22 (not one of the newer Z22R), i.e. it has (had) the old style drum memory which often caused problems with signal amplitudes and head adjustments. The new style is sealed and has magnetic bearings. BTW the machine has the serial number 13. And of course it is still running perfectly. And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. It is still the only existing LGP-30 on earth in fully working condition (until proved otherwise) incl. high-speed reader/punch and software. I had posted a link to our papertape software collection some time ago. Christian Corti From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Mar 30 04:57:59 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files In-Reply-To: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: Rich, There are a number of techniques. A simple one (that is fairly accurate and free) is to simply list the file count / and total size. This will point out a mismatch quite quickly. I also have some tools that basically do the same thing, but more in-depth. Please contact me off-list if you wish. David V. Corbin >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard A. Cini >>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:44 PM >>> To: CCTech (E-mail) >>> Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files >>> >>> Hello, all: >>> >>> I just moved most of my collection of on-line data to a >>> new server here at home. I want to verify that all files >>> have been copied and I didn't miss any >>> directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a >>> drag-and-drop across the network. >>> >>> What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT >>> (Server) and I'm looking at about 22gb of files of various >>> types -- from music to source code. >>> >>> Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby >>> for this verification before I wipe it clean for sale. >>> >>> Thanks again. >>> >>> Rich Cini >>> Collector of classic computers >>> Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: >>> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >>> /************************************************************/ >>> >>> >>> From hansp at citem.org Tue Mar 30 04:50:51 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Computer Replica's In-Reply-To: <200403251733.i2PHX0FS012963@spies.com> References: <200403251733.i2PHX0FS012963@spies.com> Message-ID: <4069510B.50000@citem.org> Al Kossow wrote: >>is the CCC back on line? >> >> Yes, as of just a few minutes ago;-) : http://www.citem.org/CCC The only thing not working is the statistics page. I'll get to that in the next few hours.... -- HansP From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Mar 30 04:42:35 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 10:04:37AM +0200, Christian Corti wrote: > And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. Never heard of this thing. What and where is it? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 30 05:22:34 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Apollo Message-ID: <4069587A.10106@ntlworld.com> I have just got an apollo 735 (couldn't resist it for 9 pound on ebay). It has 96mb ram, 2 1gb hard drives, a framebuffer with a stereo +rgb ports and what I think is a 99mhz processor. All is looking good except it has no power supply. Anyone know where I can get such a beast. It looks quite big if it fills up the mising hole, the machine already weighs a ton it must be pretty heavy with it in. Thanks Dan From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 30 05:24:41 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080645881.16070.42.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 11:57, David V. Corbin wrote: > Rich, > > There are a number of techniques. If everything's under a common directory then from memory alt-enter in Explorer will bring up a summary of total size and file counts under the selected directory. If things are spread all over the place then you might have to do a bit of simple scripting to check everything... cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 30 05:26:56 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Apollo In-Reply-To: <4069587A.10106@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Williams > Sent: 30 March 2004 12:23 > To: General@deimos.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@deimos.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; > dan Williams > Subject: Apollo > > I have just got an apollo 735 (couldn't resist it for 9 pound > on ebay). > It has 96mb ram, 2 1gb hard drives, a framebuffer with a > stereo +rgb ports and what I think is a 99mhz processor. All > is looking good except it has no power supply. Anyone know > where I can get such a beast. It looks quite big if it fills > up the mising hole, the machine already weighs a ton it must > be pretty heavy with it in. Heh, if I'd known you were looking out for one of those I've got one here you could've had! It's complete with monitor and hard drive too. Cheers w From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 30 06:11:44 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40696400.9070702@ntlworld.com> Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >Heh, if I'd known you were looking out for one of those I've got one here >you could've had! It's complete with monitor and hard drive too. > >Cheers > >w > > > > I wasn't really, I was looking for something else and after seeing the price "I haven't got one of those" flashed through my mind. It will probably now go in the cupboard with other things with bits missing. While i'm on the subject I need to get more working machines and less projects (or what she calls shit in cupboards everywhere) I've got 5 next stations either with no psu, memory or hard drives. rs/6000 (I think it works, but I don't have the right monitor cable or cd rom drive for it) numerous vaxstation 3100's all working empty r4000 external dissi pack a few amstrad 1512/1640's (all working) a couple of indigo2's with I think dead psu's a working indy (dented case) 4000/60 with no psu. Ultra 1/200 with dead mainboard. a dozen ipx's with dead nvram quite a bit of dechub gear repeaters, fddi, decservers etc. I can't bring myself to throw these away, someone here would make use of them My main wants are a kfqsa or a netbsd compatable dssi card a psu for this apollo amstrad cpc 664 any other vaxen then 3100's But if anyone want's any of these for spares I'm in London pickup would be preferable or I can sort out delivery if it's not too far away. Thanks Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 06:23:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Need Alpha Microsystems Videotrax hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330072355.008768f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sellam, It it's the VHS that I'm thinking of then it wasn't just a backup device. You could boot from it too! In fact, that's how you initially booted the system and installed the OS to the hard drive. I don't have the VHS unit but I do have one of the AM ssytems that uses it (an AM 1000). The tape interface is built-in. It's working but appears to have a bad hard drive controller. Any interest in it? See for pictures. Joe At 11:09 PM 3/29/04 -0800, you wrote: > >I'm in need of an Alpha Microsystems Videotrax tape backup unit (made >backups to VHS tape). I can use any hardware including controllers, etc. >but the Videotrax unit itself (a modified VCR) would be ideal. > >Cash or trade. Need soon. Please contact me directly. > >Thanks! > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Tue Mar 30 06:45:48 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files References: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: Hi Rich, I've used rsync to do this sort of thing in the past. You can run it on Windows with cygwin. I use it to sync about 40GB of data between machines weekly. dc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini" To: "CCTech (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files > Hello, all: > > I just moved most of my collection of on-line data to a new server here at > home. I want to verify that all files have been copied and I didn't miss any > directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a drag-and-drop > across the network. From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 30 07:04:32 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Apollo In-Reply-To: <200403301307.12859.lists@microvax.org> References: <40696400.9070702@ntlworld.com> <200403301307.12859.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <40697060.6000605@ntlworld.com> meltie wrote: >On Tuesday 30 March 2004 13:11, Dan Williams wrote: > > >>quite a bit of dechub gear repeaters, fddi, decservers etc. >> >> >What dechub gear *have* you got? > >alex/melt > > > > a couple of people have asked me this. here goes: decswitch 900ef dec bridge 900mx x2 dec repeater 900tm vnswitch 900ef decserver 900gm dec switch 900ef decserver 90l+ decrepeater 900gm x 2 decrepeater 900tm x2 dec concentrator 900mx portswitch 900pt12 some more dead psu's one working hub and one non working Dan From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 30 07:06:29 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files In-Reply-To: References: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <406970D5.9050301@ntlworld.com> Damien Cymbal wrote: >Hi Rich, > >I've used rsync to do this sort of thing in the past. You can run it on >Windows with cygwin. I use it to sync about 40GB of data between machines >weekly. > >dc > > I've used rsync as well there is also a version of wget for windows, which works in much the same way without installing cygwin. Dan From asholz at topinform.de Tue Mar 30 05:50:45 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Apollo In-Reply-To: <4069587A.10106@ntlworld.com> References: <4069587A.10106@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <40695F15.9020609@topinform.com> Dan, the simpliest way is to get onother one. > I have just got an apollo 735 (couldn't resist it for 9 pound on > ebay). It has 96mb ram, 2 1gb hard drives, a framebuffer with a stereo > +rgb ports and what I think is a 99mhz processor. All is looking good > except it has no power supply. Anyone know where I can get such a > beast. It looks quite big if it fills up the mising hole, the machine > already weighs a ton it must be pretty heavy with it in. It is real solid state! These machines are extremely reliable - if permanently powered on! I've one in my office, just to have a real Unix machine within the Windows world. It has now an uptime of 1102 days. The problems will arise, if these machines are powered off, esp. for a longer period of time. From my considerations the powersupply is damaging the cpu-board, probably based on voltage-peaks. - Andreas From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Mar 30 07:11:14 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <200403292200.53770.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> <200403292200.53770.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: Ah, sweet, just the sort of information I was looking for. (I did look, really, but I'll claim the massive headache the weather is giving me was affecting my search abilties) Thanks, now I can figger out just what all is in that machine.. David On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Monday 29 March 2004 21:48, David Holland wrote: > > Not entirely certain its on topic.. if it is, its just barely.. > > > > Anyone know much about'm? In particularly, sources of electronic > > hardware documentation? (Service Guide?) > > > > I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go > > have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm > > pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . > > > > Speaking of Google, googling for the above subject turns up a few > > billion memory dealers, and a few SpecInt pages. :-( > > > > David > > First, you want the "Adapters, Devices, and Cable Information for Micro > Channel Bus Systems" doc, which is at: > http://publib16.boulder.ibm.com/pseries/en_US/infocenter/base/hardware_docs/pdf/380533.pdf > > Next, you'll want "Diagnostic Information or Micro Channel Bus Systems" > at: > http://publib16.boulder.ibm.com/pseries/en_US/infocenter/base/hardware_docs/pdf/a4af5bas.pdf > > IBM has lots of documentation for AIX and their hardware from: > http://publib16.boulder.ibm.com/pseries/en_US/infocenter/base/ > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Mar 30 07:24:48 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <200403300307.i2U37NO3022927@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200403300307.i2U37NO3022927@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I checked their website, (really) but I didn't find the particular documents Pat Finnegan pointed me at.. (I still claim weather/sinus effects.) I've heard the horror stories about AIX... But hey, half the fun of any given computer system is trying to figure it out. - Or trying to install Linux on it. :) David On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Not entirely certain its on topic.. if it is, its just barely.. > > Closer than I expected.... > > > Anyone know much about'm? In particularly, sources of electronic > > hardware documentation? (Service Guide?) > > Have you checked the IBM Website? > > > I just got handed one, along w/ a AIX 5.1 media set.. Now I get to go > > have fun.. Course, it would be nice to know exactly what bits I'm > > pulling out of it, as I poke at its innards. . > > I'll warn you, AIX (pronounced Aches) isn't the most fun of OS's, for a Unix > box at home, I prefer IRIX, Solaris, or for a secure system OpenBSD. > > > Speaking of Google, googling for the above subject turns up a few > > billion memory dealers, and a few SpecInt pages. :-( > > Just so happens I keep that info around for a lot of the older systems.... > > System CPU ClkMHz Cache SPECint SPECfp Info > Name (NUMx)Type ext/in Ext+I/D 95 95 Date > ================= ========== ======= ========== ======= ======= ===== > IBM 59H/R20 POWER2 66 1M+32/128 3.37 9.80 Sep96 > > Zane > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 30 07:56:11 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... Message-ID: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store uses a 3 phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a single phase supply (UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things blowing up? Or am I resigned to replacing the motor with a single phase equivalent? I just want to get the thing spinning so that people can hear it running - it's way beyond actually being able to restore it to working condition again :-( cheers Jules From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 30 08:09:28 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files References: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <16489.32664.354532.250390@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Richard" == Richard A Cini writes: Richard> Hello, all: I just moved most of my collection of on-line Richard> data to a new server here at home. I want to verify that all Richard> files have been copied and I didn't miss any Richard> directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a Richard> drag-and-drop across the network. Richard> What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT Richard> (Server) and I'm looking at about 22gb of files of various Richard> types -- from music to source code. Richard> Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby for Richard> this verification before I wipe it clean for sale. Boot Linux, ls -lR on the Windows file system at each end, diff the listings. If you're paranoid, do a cksum on the files instead, and compare those listings. That will verify not just the existence but the content as well. paul From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Mar 30 08:15:05 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040330081335.035d1140@mail.ubanproductions.com> Jules, You can fairly easily build a single phase to three phase converter using another three phase motor and some capacitors. Instead of trying to describe the setup, I located this article with a google search: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html --tom At 02:56 PM 3/30/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store uses a 3 >phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a single phase supply >(UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things blowing up? Or am I resigned to >replacing the motor with a single phase equivalent? > >I just want to get the thing spinning so that people can hear it running >- it's way beyond actually being able to restore it to working condition >again :-( > >cheers > >Jules From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Mar 30 09:05:15 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... Message-ID: <040330100515.8443@splab.cas.neu.edu> there are more than a couple of ways to do the conversion. 1) use a solid state 3 phase "inverter". Not my best choice, as they are usually expensive and a little fragile. 2) get a 3 phase alternator, connect to single phase motor, making an MG set (motor-generator). straight forward, but 3 phase alternators are a little expensive also. 3) Use a 3 phase motor with a special starting circuit to create the third phase. This is what I normally use. the third phase is a little weak, but it works well. What happens is that you take a 3 phase motor bigger than what you want to power (for instance, if you have a 1 hp disk drive, then a 2+ hp motor is required for the "convertor"), and use a starting capacitor and relay to feed the third leg until the motor comes up to speed. ( the "mains" go across two of the three input leads, and the capacitor/relay third wire goes to the last input lead). Then, once the motor is spinning, you can connect your "load" up to the three leads of the "convertor" and you get a reasonable 3 phase supply. joe heck From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Mar 30 08:20:49 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <718756AA-8255-11D8-9ABE-000502453125@eoni.com> I KNEW I saved this for a reason... Everybody knows that 3 phase power is expensive to get, and most homes only have single phase (110 or 220) power. But 3 phase motors run smoother, because power is constant, so they would be nice to have. You can even get ahold of them used for free/next-to-nothing *because* Nobody Has 3 Phase Power! You can buy some very expensive electronic converters, but why bother? You can run a 3 phase motor from standard 220 single phase power. Really. It is an old technique, known mostly only to old tinkerers and the like. It works like this: First, you get the 3 phase motor turning it (manually, or better, with a small 110 v motor), and THEN turn on the 220 (connected to two legs) it will run. It will not run at rated power, or smoothly, but it will run (at speed). This is OK for some machines. Now for a magic trick. Take a second (free, same size or smaller) 3 phase motor, and connect it to the first (three leg switch, and zing!, the second motor turns on instantly, and both motors run smoothly! And with more HP than off of just 220. The first motor is acting like a "generator" to provide the third leg. This is not "full three phase power", but it works quite nicely. The 220 supplies power to both motors, with one more wire to connect them. You can can connect additional motors also. This works best if the first motor is a larger HP (2 vs 1), or higher speed rating (3400 vs 1750) than the slave. Older, "beefy" motors are preferable. A 3 HP, 3400 RPM motor works nicly. The reason for this is that if you try to start a bigger load than your master motor, you may reverse the rotation direction of the master (3 phase can be wired to run either way). A large/fast motor will have enough momentum to resist changing directions. The more motors you get running, the more stable the system becomes. The limit may be the amount of power drawn through the third leg of any given motor, or your switch, etc. A real world, functioning system: master motor: 3 HP, 3 Ph., 3400 RPM Starter "pony" motor- 110, 1/2 HP, 1 Ph washing machine motor Slave Motor- 3 Ph, 1750 RPM punch press or lathe. (Insert your machine here) The Washing machine motor and the master are mounted to a board/bench, and their shafts are connected with a flexible coupling. Power to them is switched with a Double Throw, Double Position, CENTER OFF switch. The 3 legs of the master also go to a 3 pole switch, To the slave machine. (DP/DT/C off Switch, shown (Three phase Switch, in 110 V motor on position) Shown off) SWITCH 1 SWITCH 2 / 220 leg1 o--------------------------------+-----------/ o----> >--------o\ o | \o | Three | / Phase 220 leg2 o---------------------------+----------------/ o----> Power >--------o\ o | | To \o--------| | | Machine | | | / Motor Neutral | | | |--------/ o----> >--------o------| | | | | | | |--------------| |------------| | 3 HP, 3 Ph. | |(110V Motor) |==[]====| Motor | |------------| | MASTER | |--------------| Operation: 1) Start with Switch 1 OFF. 2) Make sure that Switch 2 is OFF. 3) Turn on the 110 V "start up" motor with switch 1. (as drawn) This will drive the master motor. 4) Once running, flip Switch 1 so that power now goes to the Master Motor. It will now run at it's speed, and drive the 110 motor. (note that power is NEVER connected to both at once) 5) You may now turn on Switch 2, which will start the machine motor. 6) Turn off BOTH switches when done. Additional motors must have their own switch (of course), wired to the master, and should only be started one at a time. CAUTION: Always observe proper safety proceedures when working with electricity! If you don't know what you're doing, DON'T! copyright 1989 Roger Garnett ________________________________________________________________________ Roger Garnett (Roger-Garnett@cornell.edu) http://www.wayward.team.net/ "The South Lansing Centre For Wayward Sports Cars" "All donations of stray, orphaned, odd, neglected, etc. sports cars and bits in need of a good home accepted." "The drop off bin is right there- behind the barn..." On Tuesday, Mar 30, 2004, at 05:56 US/Pacific, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store uses a 3 > phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a single phase > supply > (UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things blowing up? Or am I resigned to > replacing the motor with a single phase equivalent? > > I just want to get the thing spinning so that people can hear it > running > - it's way beyond actually being able to restore it to working > condition > again :-( > > cheers > > Jules > From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 08:25:25 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <20040330002627.7ab5d1b8.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040330142525.86778.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- Scott Stevens wrote: > > The nightmare I have experienced recently is trying > to get any information on older Laptops. I.e. I > have taken a liking for Toshiba 2100 series 486 > laptops. If you try to search Google for anything > relating to them, i.e. to find out what speed > processor they have in them, what video chip they > use, you're deluged with Laptop Battery ads for > batteries priced at 2-5 times what you paid for the > laptop. > > For a specific problem like that you might want to search for "Toshiba 2100 -battery" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Mar 30 08:29:33 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files In-Reply-To: <16489.32664.354532.250390@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> <16489.32664.354532.250390@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4069844D.8090208@jcwren.com> Many versions of diff support diff'ing contents of directories, usually by just specifying the two directories as the targets. "diff -r pathToDir1 pathToDir2". This will work on almost any filesystem type that can be mounted under Linux. And if you don't have Linux installed, consider using a live CD, perhaps Knoppix or Lindows. You should also be able to do this with Cygwins diff. Most Cygwin utils will run with just the cygwin1.dll and the .exe file. If you don't have Cygwin installed (and I believe someone mentioned this earlier), you can install a comprehensive chain of *nix tools with a minimum footprint. Just don't install GCC :) It's very handy when you want command line tools that aren't as readily available under Windows, or you're a *nix hack who switches between Windows and *nix. --jc Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>>"Richard" == Richard A Cini writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Richard> Hello, all: I just moved most of my collection of on-line > Richard> data to a new server here at home. I want to verify that all > Richard> files have been copied and I didn't miss any > Richard> directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a > Richard> drag-and-drop across the network. > > Richard> What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT > Richard> (Server) and I'm looking at about 22gb of files of various > Richard> types -- from music to source code. > > Richard> Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby for > Richard> this verification before I wipe it clean for sale. > >Boot Linux, ls -lR on the Windows file system at each end, diff the >listings. > >If you're paranoid, do a cksum on the files instead, and compare those >listings. That will verify not just the existence but the content as >well. > > paul > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 30 08:30:37 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16489.33933.481294.439594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store Jules> uses a 3 phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a Jules> single phase supply (UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things Jules> blowing up? Or am I resigned to replacing the motor with a Jules> single phase equivalent? I thought 3 phase mains was readily available in Europe? Or is that only on the continent? (I remember we had it in Holland, for the electric cooking stove.) In any case, the answer is to get a variable speed motor controller. Those are oversized inverters that produce adjustable frequency 3 phase AC from either single or 3 phase inputs. The primary purpose is to feed variable frequency power to 3 phase motors, which will change their speed -- much handier than gear boxes. But as a bonus, they will also serve to produce 3 phase power for those of us stuck in the back country. Google: "variable frequency motor drive" turns up a pile of hits, looks promising. paul From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Mar 30 08:30:33 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <4638.65.123.179.139.1080657033.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> The old fashined way was to use a motorized phase converter, and special transformer connections. I think now they use electronics to do the same thing. Your drive is small enough I think electronics would be the answer, or just get a single phase motor. You must remember that 3 phase draws power equally three ways, and that anything large will easily overload a single phase circuit found in most homes. Power is power, and you can't BS electrons in that matter. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO > > Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store uses a 3 > phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a single phase supply > (UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things blowing up? Or am I resigned to > replacing the motor with a single phase equivalent? > > I just want to get the thing spinning so that people can hear it running > - it's way beyond actually being able to restore it to working condition > again :-( > > cheers > > Jules > From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 30 08:57:47 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <16489.33933.481294.439594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <16489.33933.481294.439594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200403301557.47286.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 15:30, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson > >>>>> writes: > > Jules> Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store > Jules> uses a 3 phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a > Jules> single phase supply (UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things > Jules> blowing up? Or am I resigned to replacing the motor with a > Jules> single phase equivalent? > > I thought 3 phase mains was readily available in Europe? Or is that > only on the continent? (I remember we had it in Holland, for the > electric cooking stove.) In the UK: Nah, you've got to sacrifice a lamb daily to the utility gods to get them to consider you for a 3-phase hookup. We do have ~240V everywhere though, and all out consumer-grade plugs have earth pin provisions. alex/melt From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Tue Mar 30 08:58:47 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <16489.33933.481294.439594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <16489.33933.481294.439594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <40698B27.8080306@vzavenue.net> > > >In any case, the answer is to get a variable speed motor controller. >Those are oversized inverters that produce adjustable frequency 3 >phase AC from either single or 3 phase inputs. The primary purpose is >to feed variable frequency power to 3 phase motors, which will change >their speed -- much handier than gear boxes. But as a bonus, they >will also serve to produce 3 phase power for those of us stuck in the >back country. > In my previous life as an industrial electrical-instrumentation contractor, I have used VFD's to drive 3 phase loads from a single phase supply. The main thing you have to remember, is to derate your drive. As an example, drive a 2.5hp load from a 7.5hp drive. The VFD's will provide a smooth sine output and will protect your load device. Look around at some industrial surplus sellers. With the current trend of offshoring manufacturing plants, there seems to be a lot of equipment showing up on the surplus market. We had a lot of luck using the Allen-Bradley 1336 series of drives. They were Mitsubishi under the skin and seemed to be very forgiving. We also used a lot of Hitachi's and Toshiba's too.. No complaints with those either. James http://www.allenbradley.com/drives/1336PlusII/index.html From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 30 09:18:02 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <200403301557.47286.lists@microvax.org> References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <16489.33933.481294.439594@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200403301557.47286.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <40698FAA.3000607@ntlworld.com> >In the UK: >Nah, you've got to sacrifice a lamb daily to the utility gods to get them >to consider you for a 3-phase hookup. We do have ~240V everywhere though, >and all out consumer-grade plugs have earth pin provisions. > >alex/melt > > > > I've got 3 phase but sadly nothing big enough to plug into it. Dan From hirschopd at msn.com Tue Mar 30 07:33:04 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: removal from mailing list Message-ID: lou, use the following http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html >From: lou medina >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: removal from mailing list >Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:45:13 -0800 (PST) > >I lost the information on how I can be removed from the mailing list. Can >you send it to me please? >Lou > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 30 09:26:15 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <40698FAA.3000607@ntlworld.com> References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <200403301557.47286.lists@microvax.org> <40698FAA.3000607@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <200403301626.16182.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 16:18, Dan Williams wrote: > >In the UK: > >Nah, you've got to sacrifice a lamb daily to the utility gods to get > > them to consider you for a 3-phase hookup. > I've got 3 phase but sadly nothing big enough to plug into it. How on earth did you manage that? What was there before? alex/melt From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Mar 30 10:05:17 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <200403301626.16182.lists@microvax.org> References: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <200403301557.47286.lists@microvax.org> <40698FAA.3000607@ntlworld.com> <200403301626.16182.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <40699ABD.8050600@ntlworld.com> It's above commercial property the air conditioning unit is on the roof and is connected to a 3 phase board in my flat. Dan From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 30 09:45:06 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <1080614919.19273.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: >Not entirely certain its on topic.. if it is, its just barely.. > >Anyone know much about'm? In particularly, sources of electronic >hardware documentation? (Service Guide?) Don't know if this helps, but, from my quick Google: http://info.unix-fu.org/AIX/ -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 30 10:35:07 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: SNMP management References: <200403300045.02463.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <4069A1BB.1060806@comcast.net> meltie wrote: > On Tuesday 30 March 2004 00:39, Witchy wrote: > >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie >>>Sent: 30 March 2004 00:13 >>>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>>Subject: SNMP management >>> >>>Hey guys >>> >>>Did DEC ever produce SNMP management software for Windows? >>>I'm drawing a blank on 'managing' my DEChub90 as [the GPL >>>software i've got for Linux doesn't have the right MIBs >>>loaded/I don't understand SNMP very much at all] - and I was >>>thinking that DEC's own software would make it easier. >> >>Yup, I think they did, but I'm struggling to remember whether it was for >>purely the DEChub900 only or both. I remember doing SNMP management on >>DH900 stuff and I'm sure there was software for the DH90 bridge module >>too.....remind me offlist and I'll try and dig the options catalogues >>out. > > > I've not got a bridge90, i've got a repeater90TS which the manual and > initial firmware setup suggest it's capable of managing the entire hub (or > more, if they're daisychained together)... > > alex/melt > > Digital did putout some sort of SNMP software for Windows, but I can't recall the name off-hand. i do know I have a box or two of it at home, though... Something like ServerWorks I think? -- -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 30 11:09:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: SNMP management In-Reply-To: <4069A1BB.1060806@comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: 30 March 2004 17:35 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: SNMP management > > Digital did putout some sort of SNMP software for > Windows, but I can't recall the name off-hand. i do know I > have a box or two of it at home, though... Something like > ServerWorks I think? That's ringing bells, yes..... w From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Mar 30 11:19:44 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:26 2005 Subject: Non-commercial oriented search engines (was: anybody know of a...) In-Reply-To: <20040330142525.86778.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040330002627.7ab5d1b8.sastevens@earthlink.net> <20040330142525.86778.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040330171944.GC1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe steve, from writings of Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 06:25:25AM -0800: > > laptops. If you try to search Google for anything > > relating to them, i.e. to find out what speed > > processor they have in them, what video chip they > > use, you're deluged with Laptop Battery ads for It seems as though Google has changed so that an annoying amount of unwanted, and typically irrelevant, commercial web site listings are displayed first, as though they have first preference. Before that change, Google was a much better search engine for performing any type of research. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Mar 30 11:29:41 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20040330172941.GD1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jochen Kunz, from writings of Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 12:42:35PM +0200: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 10:04:37AM +0200, Christian Corti wrote: > > And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. > Never heard of this thing. What and where is it? Hmmm... then you haven't heard of Mel either? Speaking of such, does anyone on the list have an RPC-4000? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 11:18:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? References: <3.0.6.32.20040329125631.008ed860@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330121808.008711e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:05 AM 3/29/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >> I hear you but I don't believe it! I get used-line.com ads in the top >> three positions about 75% of the time that I use Google. IF they're not >> placing certain companies first intentionly then they have a serious >> probelm with their search engine! >> >> Joe >> > >Joe, by the way, do those listings have a colored background, or are they on >a white background? The listings at top with the colored background ARE >sponsored placements. I ignore these most of the time when I'm not >specifically looking for a retailer or supplier. --Patrick They're the main listings on the white backgroung. I ignore the others completely. FWIW I just did some searchng for info on a CD to Dc converter made by Integrated Circuits Incorported. I searched for "integrated circuits incorporated" and it was in the first link that Dogpile found. The same link was buried in the Google results. Joe > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 11:23:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040329121201.008f0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330122346.00794100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:22 AM 3/29/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Have you used them lately??? This morning I tried to search for a >> driver for the ethernet card that is built into my Dell GX110 computer. I >> searched for "dell gx110 ethernet driver download" instead all I get are >> ads such as "Buy pcmcia to pci WindWire Wireless". Do you see anything in >> the search string about "buy" or "pci" or "pcmcia" or "wireless"? That >> wasn't the only result like that, they were ALL ads for soemthing totally >> unrelated to what I wanted. I went through 6 or seven pages or results and >> didn't find anything close to what I was looking for. > >Joe, this is not Google (well, not directly). This is idiot companies >who've learned how to game Google to get their site returned as the top >result. There's a whole science behind it. > >Google needs to do something to prevent this sort of thing, but it's not >them selling positioning. They sell ads but those are the results that >show up highlighted (and explicitly state they are paid links) and the >links on the right side. > >I have the same problem as you whenever searching for ANYTHING having to >do with laptops. There are a million companies out there all trying to >hawk the same product, all competing with each other. Quite annoying, and >as a result I can hardly ever find anything useful when I'm searching for >information about laptops. I know what you mean. There are entire catagories that are impossible to search for because of all the bogus results. IMO Google should make a list of these keyword SPAMMERs and block EVERYTHING from their sites. It's gotten so bad that I've tried putting -"used-line" and things like that in the search string to exclude used-line and the other keyword SPAMMERS but Google ignores them. Joe >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 30 11:30:01 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330172941.GD1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <16489.44697.742236.374565@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "R" == R D Davis writes: >> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 10:04:37AM +0200, Christian Corti wrote: > >> And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. R> Hmmm... then you haven't heard of Mel either? Ah yes.... I wonder if it's a true story -- and if so, whether anyone has the code. What better program to run on that LGP-30? paul From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 30 11:35:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... Message-ID: <200403301735.JAA19350@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jules Richardson" > > >Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store uses a 3 >phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a single phase supply >(UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things blowing up? Or am I resigned to >replacing the motor with a single phase equivalent? > >I just want to get the thing spinning so that people can hear it running >- it's way beyond actually being able to restore it to working condition >again :-( > >cheers > >Jules > Hi A common shop trick is to get another 3 phase motor and start that one spinning with a rope. Then connect the single phase wires as one of the phases and cross connect the other phases. This uses the free spinning motor as a generator for the motor with the load. The motor would need to be an induction type. Of course, one could have another motor to spin up the generator and a simple control to switch over the power once it is spun up. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 30 11:38:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Need Alpha Microsystems Videotrax hardware In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040330072355.008768f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > It it's the VHS that I'm thinking of then it wasn't just a backup device. > You could boot from it too! In fact, that's how you initially booted the > system and installed the OS to the hard drive. I don't have the VHS unit > but I do have one of the AM ssytems that uses it (an AM 1000). The tape > interface is built-in. It's working but appears to have a bad hard drive > controller. Any interest in it? See > for pictures. Yep, I've got a 1000 and a 1200. These are 68000-based machines with (I believe) a funky bus so I probably can't use the interface inside and I don't think they will be useful for my purposes (recovering data from VHS data tapes). What I really need is the PC interface because the files I'm recovering were originally written on a PC. I've got a (mostly) complete library of AM documentation that I need to go through but I'm sure I've got the manuals for the setup I'm trying to build. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Tue Mar 30 11:53:58 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files In-Reply-To: <001201c41609$475ab460$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: Rich, one word: windiff. It's in the NT resource kit, and I think it's in the small version of the kit downloadable at the URL below. --Patrick http://www.microsoft.com/ntworkstation/downloads/recommended/featured/ntkit. asp?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard A. Cini > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:44 PM > To: CCTech (E-mail) > Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files > > > Hello, all: > > I just moved most of my collection of on-line data to a new > server here at > home. I want to verify that all files have been copied and I > didn't miss any > directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a drag-and-drop > across the network. > > What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT > (Server) and I'm > looking at about 22gb of files of various types -- from music to source > code. > > Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby for this > verification before I wipe it clean for sale. > > Thanks again. > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 12:09:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a board with several of these yesterday. Can anyone id them? I've searched the net and all I can find are sellers with no names or descriptions of what the ICs are. Chip directory comes up empty. They're 24 pin ICs with white ceramic bodies and gold lids and legs. They're marked "93448-DC" and "F 7633". Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 30 13:00:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? References: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16489.50127.761000.61644@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> I found a board with several of these yesterday. Can anyone id Joe> them? I've searched the net and all I can find are sellers with Joe> no names or descriptions of what the ICs are. Chip directory Joe> comes up empty. They're 24 pin ICs with white ceramic bodies Joe> and gold lids and legs. They're marked "93448-DC" and "F 7633". "F" suggests Fairchild (I assume 7633 is a date code, late summer 1976!). So I asked Google for "Fairchild 93448. So much for the nasty comments about Google -- the very first hit has the answer: http://wulfman.com/pdffiles/rom95f-10.pdf, page 8. Looks like a 512 by 8 PROM (I believe that means one time programmable, fuse style). paul From shirker at mooli.org.uk Tue Mar 30 13:20:11 2004 From: shirker at mooli.org.uk (shirker@mooli.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Apollo In-Reply-To: <40696400.9070702@ntlworld.com> References: <40696400.9070702@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20040330192011.GA1616@mooli.org.uk> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 01:11:44PM +0100, Dan Williams wrote: > numerous vaxstation 3100's all working What speeds of VS3100s are these? I might be tempted. Ed. From dan at ekoan.com Tue Mar 30 13:22:51 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Rescued Heathkit OM-3 Oscilloscope In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040330141555.0448f4e0@enigma> At 10:17 PM 3/29/04, William Donzelli wrote: >Certainly there are rare Heathkits out there - if Mr. Klein found >a CONELRAD monitor by Heath, I would have told him to guard it with his >life. Are they really that rare? I've got one you can read about at http://www.signalharbor.com/heathkit-ca1.html that showed up among a bunch of rescued Heathkit gear. I didn't realize they were that uncommon. Since we're still somewhat off-topic, I picked up the following OpenVMS Alpha package recently but don't have much use (no Alpha hardware) or interest (it's too recent). I know there are OpenVMS fans on the list -- please contact me directly. OVMS Alpha LP Q499 SEEDS KIT (part number BR-03XAA-S8) Contains three items: 1. OpenVMS Alpha Software Product Library, dated December 1999 Contains documentation and the following 21 CDs: OpenVMS Alpha Software Product Library (16 discs) (Dec 99) Compaq System Tools (Dec 99) OpenVMS Management Tools Version 4.1a for Windows NT (Aug 99) Digital Pathworks 32 Version 7.1A (Oct 98) OpenVMS Year 2000 Readiness Kit (April 98) OpenVMS Year 2000 Readiness Kit Supplementary Files (April 98) 2. OpenVMS Alpha Online Documentation Library, dated December 1999 This is still sealed in shrink-wrap. 3. OpenVMS Alpha Seed Pak Letter, dated May 1999 Contains license pak keys for each of the software products I'm certainly open to trades, etc. Sorry for continuing the off-topic discussion. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Mar 30 13:41:14 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I found a board with several of these yesterday. Can anyone id them? I've > searched the net and all I can find are sellers with no names or > descriptions of what the ICs are. Chip directory comes up empty. They're > 24 pin ICs with white ceramic bodies and gold lids and legs. They're marked > "93448-DC" and "F 7633". > > Joe > Fairchild 512X8 Bipolar RAM (First hit with Google :-) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 13:53:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found several of these a few days ago but I can't find anything about them or the company that made them on the net. They're 3U type cards with 68000-10 CPUs and are marked MATRIX MS-CPU-02C. I found one mention of a computer company called Matrix in an old copy of a VME news letter and they said that the URL for Matrix is www.matrix.com but now that URL belongs to a company that supplies hair care products. Does anyone know any more about Matrix or these cards? Joe From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Mar 30 14:17:57 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: X-Tree Gold 2.5 Message-ID: As above, boxed with the manual and, I think, both sets of disks (3.5" and 5.25"). Available for postage but hurry 'cos the binman comes in the morning. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 30 14:33:02 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <000b01c412f5$45a7aa40$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> References: <1080254107.4928.49.camel@weka.localdomain> <000b01c412f5$45a7aa40$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:43:31 -0700 > From: ed sharpe > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: Re: working magnetic drum stores? > > would be nice even to have a non working one to display in the museum here! > Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC There is a LARGE drum memory at Apex Surplus in Sun Valley CA. It's 36" high, 24" wide, hundreds of heads. Vertical, motor on top. Clear blue plastic covers on the sides. It's outside in the weather, plastic cracked, and they won't part with it for < $500. From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 30 14:46:29 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: (it's replicas not replica's) > So lets have your vote for what replica's of old computers > that need to reconstructed at a functional level -- blinking > lights, mechanical I/O but it need not be the same hardware > level. Other than reminiscing about obscure machines we personally love, if you wanted to actuallyt make/sell a bunch to amortize cost, I'd think something more common like a PDP-8 would be a better choice. It's got blinkenlights. It's desktop(ish). It's got software. It's got a decidedly non-modern architecture (NOTE1). There's plenty of software. It has familiarity on it's side. There's user docs, hardware docs, original panels to make copies of. It would need only two peripherals to be interesting/useful (unlike a 360/90!) -- tape and console. Very small installations were common and useful: "teletype" (keyboard, paper, tape), dectape/linctape. I distinctly recall how exciting it was to use a Nova 1200, linctape and silent 700 on a rollaround cart in 1974. I know the '8 equivelents were far more common and had more software. Lots of "reproductions" are disappointing if all of the physicality isn't right, to me anyways. A PDP-8 that was 2" thick and hung on the wall just wouldn't cut it. I know it sounds pedantic but clearly, we're talking about an aesthetic experience, if you just wanted to run the software an emulator is enough. WE WANT HARDWARE! tomj NOTE 1: I'm fascinated with bizarre and ancient architectures too, but let's get real, most of the ancient ones don't do character I/O, even, so coding up even the old STAR-TREK would be a major undertaking on a drum machine. From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 30 14:49:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004201c41216$cb146b30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > Lots of us have vaxen, lots of us have PDP's... but I'd venture few of us > will ever touch a 360 these days. So lets build the one we'll probably never > get a real one of! I think you need a bit of perspective here! "Lots of us" is a microscopic crowd, a very few hardcore collectors with the $ to stockpile. I haven't even SEEN a PDP-8 (for example) for > 20 years, other than in a museum, and then only twice (Mtn. View, San Diego). And I even know about them and used their historical compatriots. From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 30 14:53:44 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: WD1793 read-track weirdness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Has anybody out there written drivers for the WD1793 floppy > > disk controller chip? I've been doing that for fun, and have > > hit on a very strange problem with the 'read track' command. > > It seems to work just fine, returning a stream of bytes that > > includes the data for each sector, until it finds a byte with > > a value of $29 (or 29H, if you prefer). From that point up > > to the next address mark, it gets garbled data. No other data > > value seems to have any odd effect. 'Read sector' returns > > the right data with no weirdness. The data isn't necesarily aligned on byte boundaries. It's a bit stream. Back when I used to disassemble track data by hand, I'd simply do multiple track reads until what I wanted was byte-aligned, and view with SID or the PDOS equiv. You could code up a bit stream and look for the sync patterns and all that and byte align it yourself. Write current turn off creates glitches in the inter-sector gaps. It's normal. If I recall, dumped tracks that were never written often byte-align. It's been a long time... From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 14:59:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330155944.0087b910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:41 AM 3/30/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I found a board with several of these yesterday. Can anyone id them? I've >> searched the net and all I can find are sellers with no names or >> descriptions of what the ICs are. Chip directory comes up empty. They're >> 24 pin ICs with white ceramic bodies and gold lids and legs. They're marked >> "93448-DC" and "F 7633". >> >> Joe >> > > > >Fairchild 512X8 Bipolar RAM > >(First hit with Google :-) > You guys must have a different Google than I have! The first TWO hits that I got are for Dial Electronics. They have the part listed but don't say what it is, who made it or how much they want for it. The next two hits are for HKinventory and they give the same lack of information. Then USBid, Doom, and others. NONE of them give any information about the part at all. Thre are pages and pages of the same kind of useless hits. That's why I'm dumping Google! Joe >Peter Wallace >Mesa Electronics > > From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 30 15:00:21 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > Actually some drums have flying heads, Bryant at one time had drums with > flying heads and a slightly conical drum, so that the drum could be lifted to > approach the heads when the drum was up to "flying" speed... LGP-21 fixed-head-platter mechanical memory (main store, not "disk") the heads sit crashed (sic) and lift when up to speed. The platter surface has fine scoring -- it's normal. It's only 80 bits per inch. Nickel plated steel. In fact, there's little springs that press the heads DOWNWARD. From tomj at wps.com Tue Mar 30 15:02:38 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: otrona advanced systems In-Reply-To: <07ea01c414de$7b4bb1b0$a1d2fea9@sandhillecon.com> References: <07ea01c414de$7b4bb1b0$a1d2fea9@sandhillecon.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Susan Woodward wrote: > Subject: otrona advanced systems > I don't recall exactly but late 80's/early 90's. THe Attache didn't make much money if I recall. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 30 15:38:07 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: X-Tree Gold 2.5 References: Message-ID: <000a01c4169f$4abfa020$e12e1941@game> I'll take it if its still around US I hope ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: X-Tree Gold 2.5 > > As above, boxed with the manual and, I think, both sets of > disks (3.5" and 5.25"). > > Available for postage but hurry 'cos the binman comes in the > morning. > > Cheers, > Lee. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Mar 30 15:42:00 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? Message-ID: Got any pictures ? > They're 3U type cards with 68000-10 CPUs and are marked > MATRIX MS-CPU-02C. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Mar 30 15:33:37 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <20040330172941.GD1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330172941.GD1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040330233337.7fec2e81.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 30 Mar 2004 12:29:41 -0500 "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. > > Never heard of this thing. What and where is it? > Hmmm... then you haven't heard of Mel either? Mel? As "Mel The Programmer"? Yes I remember Mel, but I didn't remember the name of the machine. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From aek at spies.com Tue Mar 30 15:57:33 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Mel the programmer Message-ID: <200403302157.i2ULvXG3009072@spies.com> here we go again.. > > > And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. > > Never heard of this thing. What and where is it? > Hmmm... then you haven't heard of Mel either? Mel? As "Mel The Programmer"? Yes I remember Mel, but I didn't remember the name of the machine. -- http://www.wps.com/projects/LGP-21/mel-the-programmer.html From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Mar 30 16:11:01 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? > I found several of these a few days ago but I can't find anything about > them or the company that made them on the net. They're 3U type cards with > 68000-10 CPUs and are marked MATRIX MS-CPU-02C. I found one mention of a > computer company called Matrix in an old copy of a VME news letter and they > said that the URL for Matrix is www.matrix.com but now that URL belongs to > a company that supplies hair care products. Does anyone know any more > about Matrix or these cards? Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. Major competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for general matrix info. From lists at microvax.org Tue Mar 30 16:14:32 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: SNMP management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403302314.32282.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 18:09, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > > Sent: 30 March 2004 17:35 > > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: SNMP management > > > > Digital did putout some sort of SNMP software for > > Windows, but I can't recall the name off-hand. i do know I > > have a box or two of it at home, though... Something like > > ServerWorks I think? > > That's ringing bells, yes..... I'm also bringing up the name "HUBwatch for Windows": http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:FIy0DIHhpHYJ:cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/ dec94mds/490aauia.pdf+decrepeater+mib&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Anyone any experience with it? Pointers to er... local copies? alex/melt From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 30 16:17:06 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: SNMP management In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007a01c416a4$bd48f7e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > Digital did putout some sort of SNMP software for > > Windows, but I can't recall the name off-hand. i do know I > > have a box or two of it at home, though... Something like > > ServerWorks I think? > > That's ringing bells, yes..... There were several products that managed several things; I mostly remember ClearVISN as being the one I didn't use to manage the various RouteAbouts but I think it also managed some or all of the hub components. I don't think it ever managed the WR90 or WR250 products; there may have been a PC-based tool for those but I mostly used the VMS-based configurator. The various hub wotsits still seem to have their firmware kicking around on the net (get it while it's hot): http://h18003.www1.hp.com/support/digital_networks_archive/hubs/firmware /index.html Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From spc at conman.org Tue Mar 30 16:19:33 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000 59H In-Reply-To: from "David Holland" at Mar 30, 2004 08:24:48 AM Message-ID: <20040330221933.326EE10B12E9@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great David Holland once stated: > > Yeah, I checked their website, (really) but I didn't find the > particular documents Pat Finnegan pointed me at.. > > (I still claim weather/sinus effects.) > > I've heard the horror stories about AIX... But hey, > half the fun of any given computer system is trying to > figure it out. - Or trying to install Linux on it. :) I don't know why AIX has such a horrible reputation, I rather liked working on it (and I *love* SMIT and wish IBM would port it to Linux). The only horror story I have about AIX is the time I worked at an ISP (late '93, early '94) and the President of the company decided to add a SCSI disk to the main (and only) machine, without turning it off (it was an external SCSI drive, and SCSI is hot swappable, right?). I learned the hard way that the partitioning data is stored as a file and when I restored, I restored the *old* partitioning data so when I rebooted, boom! Wow ... it's been 10 years ... my, how time does fly ... -spc (Where did it all go?) From bofh at dh9dat.de Tue Mar 30 15:27:05 2004 From: bofh at dh9dat.de (Harald Husemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Apollo In-Reply-To: <4069587A.10106@ntlworld.com> References: <4069587A.10106@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <200403302327.05729.bofh@dh9dat.de> Hi Dan, hope you get it working - it's a quite nice machine! I have one lyin' around also, at the moment I'm not using it - but I will re-activate it, maybe as an MTA or so. My one runs perfectly well with HP UX 10.20 installed, don't try HP UX 11, someone told me it won't boot. BSD is fine for it, too... Unfortunately, it's a little bit difficult to get pre-compiled software for HP UX 10, since HP has closed down all related sites - they only supply software for 11... But, if you get it workin', I have a pre-compiled gcc for it (Someone on he list sent me the compiler - thanks again!). If you're interested, just drop me a line and I'll send it to you. Another tip: I didn't manage to get the frame buffer card to work (all my monitors refused to work with it, although I bought a special converter to VGA). But, the machine has also a serial port, which it activates when the FB card is plugged out. This port can be used with a standard modem cable (9600/8/N/1, not twisted), to access the machine and set it up. I hope you get it runnin', it's a really reliable and useful machine. (My one was powered off for I think 10 years or so, and had been stored in the cellar - I switched it on, and it worked, without any errors - try this with a "modern" PC, :-)) ) Greetings from germany, have a nice hackin', Harald On Tuesday 30 March 2004 13:22, Dan Williams wrote: > I have just got an apollo 735 (couldn't resist it for 9 pound on ebay). > It has 96mb ram, 2 1gb hard drives, a framebuffer with a stereo +rgb > ports and what I think is a 99mhz processor. All is looking good except > it has no power supply. Anyone know where I can get such a beast. It > looks quite big if it fills up the mising hole, the machine already > weighs a ton it must be pretty heavy with it in. > > Thanks > Dan -- ===================================================== Harald Husemann e-mail: bofh@dh9dat.de web: deepthought.prima-dyn.de projects: rawt.sourceforge.net From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 30 17:06:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I think you need a bit of perspective here! "Lots of us" is > a microscopic crowd, a very few hardcore collectors with the > $ to stockpile. I think the number of people on this list with PDPs of some flavor would be quite high - maybe at least 20 percent? It is a rough guess, but judging from the posts here and there over the years... As far as "$ to stockpile" - almost anyone on this list could have a PDP-8 (with the exception of a Straight, LINC-8, or -8/S) if they put their mind to it. They are still out there, so if money is problem, old fashioned legwork will eventually pay off. An then there is ebay, of course, and we all know that quite few PDP-8s appear every year. Spending $1000-2000 for a PDP-8 (maybe an 8/E) is really not completely insane. Put in some overtime, wheel and deal, sacrifice a few other luxuries, whatever - budget and save and that $2000 will appear. Now an S/360 is a different matter. I have worked my legs for something like seven years for one, and nothing has come my way (although I missed that model 22 by a few weeks, I think). I have also made a serious budget for one if Ebay finally pops one up, but none have. Where am I to get one? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Mar 30 17:11:20 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c416ac$501bc640$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? Pardon me, that would be Matrox that I was speaking of, as everyone probably knows by now. Sorry. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Mar 30 17:15:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? References: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040330155944.0087b910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16489.65437.318000.230892@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> At 11:41 AM 3/30/04 -0800, you wrote: >> Fairchild 512X8 Bipolar RAM >> >> (First hit with Google :-) >> Joe> You guys must have a different Google than I have! The first Joe> TWO hits that I got are for Dial Electronics. They have the part Joe> listed but don't say what it is, who made it or how much they Joe> want for it. The next two hits are for HKinventory and they Joe> give the same lack of information. Then USBid, Doom, and Joe> others. NONE of them give any information about the part at Joe> all. Thre are pages and pages of the same kind of useless Joe> hits. That's why I'm dumping Google! I'd suggest you should install and run a spyware checker. It sure sounds like some evil force has taken over your machine. I haven't heard of spyware/malware that redirects google.com to somewhere else, but it certainly would be trivial to do so. Come to think of it, check your "hosts" file to see if it has any bogus entries in it. Or ping www.google.com on your machine to see the address, then use nslookup with one of the root servers as the specified server to see if that matches. paul From vrs at msn.com Tue Mar 30 17:17:00 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? References: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040330155944.0087b910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > You guys must have a different Google than I have! The first TWO hits > that I got are for Dial Electronics. They have the part listed but don't > say what it is, who made it or how much they want for it. The next two > hits are for HKinventory and they give the same lack of information. Then > USBid, Doom, and others. NONE of them give any information about the part > at all. Thre are pages and pages of the same kind of useless hits. That's > why I'm dumping Google! If I search for "93448-DC" I get the same junk. If I search for "93448" I get the pdf file mentioned earlier as the first hit. Vince From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 30 17:27:32 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040330155944.0087b910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040330182010.0507d1a8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Joe R. may have mentioned these words: > You guys must have a different Google than I have! The first TWO hits >that I got are for Dial Electronics. They have the part listed but don't >say what it is, who made it or how much they want for it. The next two >hits are for HKinventory and they give the same lack of information. Then >USBid, Doom, and others. NONE of them give any information about the part >at all. Thre are pages and pages of the same kind of useless hits. That's >why I'm dumping Google! > > Joe Admittedly OT, but I hope this helps: Have you scanned your system for spyware? 2 programs work well for this: Ad-Aware 6.0 (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/) and Spybot Search & Destroy (http://security.kolla.de/) Try those, to see if you have something hijacking your internet connection - Also, if you're using IE and don't mind switching, try mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org/) I use FireFox as it's just a browser & nothing else, but the full mozilla is also very nice. Built-in popup blocker - haven't had a popup in over a year! If you can't stand anything but IE, look into the AvantBrowser plugin (http://www.avantbrowser.com/) as it's got a popup blocker in it as well, and tighten a lot of security issues in IE. Do you use a bookmark to hit google? I think some software can actually "rewrite" IE bookmarks, and that whole: http://192.168.432.434/gohereinstead.html/www.google.com/index.html type of trick can make you not go to where you're thinking... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 30 17:06:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: electronics workbench In-Reply-To: <10403300839.ZM3333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 30, 4 08:39:36 am Message-ID: > > If possible, have a good isolating transformer. Almost essential if > you > > work on SMPSUs. Also think about having both 110 and 220V outlets -- > the > > ability to plug in just anything from either side of the Pond, at > least > > for testing is very useful. > > I have an isolating transformer, which lives under the bench. I've > almost never needed 110V, but one day I'll find a cheap transformer. Some mechanical peripherlas (ASR33s, DEC PC04/05 paper tape units, etc) have 110V motors. It can be useful to be able to power those without also having to drag the transformer from the instrument to your bench. This depends on how your machine house (a large version of a machine room :-)) is laid out. If you've got everything close together, then it probably doesn't matter. However, if you get stuff shipped from the states, it can be very useful to be able to power it up witout doing internal modifications (if there's no voltage selector switch). You may need to run the original PSU to measure the output voltages for example. Or you may want to check that something will work on 110V before sending it across the Pond... > > Although I don't do much heavy metalwork on my electronics bench, I > agree > > a small vice is very useful. For pressing on iDC connectors, holding > > things when soldering, etc. Chasing a DIN plug around the benchtop > with a > > hot soldering iron is not my idea of fun! > > The vice in question is too small and light for crimping connectors. I Ah, the one I have will crimp most IDC connectors. It's also big enough for light metalwork (holding a bracket when drilling a hole or similar. _Very_ useful... > just use it for holding D-connectors, or holding multicore cables when > I tin the ends. But the adjacent bench has a proper engineer's vice (a Yes, I use it for that too... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 30 17:15:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: running 3 phase motors from single phase... In-Reply-To: <1080654971.16072.99.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Mar 30, 4 02:56:11 pm Message-ID: > > > Rats, I just found out the museum's dead Sperry drum store uses a 3 > phase motor - is there any way I can run this from a single phase supply > (UK mains, ~240V, 50Hz) without things blowing up? Or am I resigned to > replacing the motor with a single phase equivalent? It's possible. There are several ways to do it -- the most expensive being an electronic converter (basically a recifier followed by 3 choppers suitably drive). The cheaper method is to use an 3 phase auxilliary motor of about 1.5 times the power of the motor you want to run. Connect that as a cpaactior run motor (mains to 2 of the phase leads, a suitable capacitor from one of those leads to the remaining phase lead), then take the 3 phase output from the 3 phase leads of that motor. Poeple have been running medium-size machine tools like this at home for years -- a local model engineering club will probably have somebody who's done it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 30 17:31:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: from "Tom Jennings" at Mar 30, 4 01:00:21 pm Message-ID: > LGP-21 fixed-head-platter mechanical memory (main store, > not "disk") the heads sit crashed (sic) and lift when up to > speed. The platter surface has fine scoring -- it's normal. It's > only 80 bits per inch. Nickel plated steel. In fact, there's > little springs that press the heads DOWNWARD. FWIW, the springs on hard disk heads press the heads _towards_ the platter too. Look at something like an RK05 sometime. The heads are lifted by flying on the air dragged round by the platter. -tony From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 30 18:01:21 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: > Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in > Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. Major > competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything > either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for general > matrix info. > *Matrox* is the company you're thinking of. g. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 30 18:04:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <000801c416b3$c150edc0$e12e1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Matrix 3U CPU card? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe R." > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM > Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? > > > > I found several of these a few days ago but I can't find anything about > > them or the company that made them on the net. They're 3U type cards with > > 68000-10 CPUs and are marked MATRIX MS-CPU-02C. I found one mention of a > > computer company called Matrix in an old copy of a VME news letter and > they > > said that the URL for Matrix is www.matrix.com but now that URL belongs to > > a company that supplies hair care products. Does anyone know any more > > about Matrix or these cards? > Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in > Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. Major > competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything > either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for general > matrix info. > > You are thinking of Matrox from Canada, they are still around ( www.matrox.com ) From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Mar 30 18:17:36 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <200403310017.TAA20590@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be > in Montreal. Surely you mean Matrox? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 30 18:22:29 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403301922.30062.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On March 30, 2004 06:06 pm, William Donzelli wrote: > Now an S/360 is a different matter. I have worked my legs for something > like seven years for one, and nothing has come my way (although I missed > that model 22 by a few weeks, I think). I have also made a serious budget > for one if Ebay finally pops one up, but none have. Where am I to get one? I mentioned the desire for a S/360 to an IBM rep this past weekend. He said he couldn't give away the last one he had. Also there is a problem of getting the software for it. He mentioned that a developers license was available for ~15,000. Has anyone asked IBM to consider a hobbyist license? - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAag9GLPrIaE/xBZARAjuuAKCF46BOhbHZrznejcdTRGeD2uA25wCfaZn6 Pmcc8r83jWw2ECwy3xsntLE= =qZDh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 18:28:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330192858.0084b210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Are you sure that you're not thinking of Matrox? They're still alive and well (in Canada). I tried searching for Matrix along with various other terms such as 3U, 68000, CPU, etc but found that Matrix is a VERY common term :-( Joe At 05:11 PM 3/30/04 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM >Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? > > >> I found several of these a few days ago but I can't find anything about >> them or the company that made them on the net. They're 3U type cards with >> 68000-10 CPUs and are marked MATRIX MS-CPU-02C. I found one mention of a >> computer company called Matrix in an old copy of a VME news letter and >they >> said that the URL for Matrix is www.matrix.com but now that URL belongs to >> a company that supplies hair care products. Does anyone know any more >> about Matrix or these cards? >Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in >Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. Major >competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything >either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for general >matrix info. > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Mar 30 18:40:56 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: X-Tree Gold 2.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040330194033.020dc6b0@pop-server> At 03:17 PM 3/30/2004, you wrote: >As above, boxed with the manual and, I think, both sets of >disks (3.5" and 5.25"). > >Available for postage but hurry 'cos the binman comes in the >morning. I'll take it if it's still available >Cheers, > Lee. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Mar 30 19:02:04 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas -PDP-8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There are also a number of available commercial replicas that use a microprocessor rather than discrete logic. Software is compatable, has all the switches and blinken lights. A full system can be aquired for under $1000 (much cheaper if you build it yourself) I have one here that I picked up a while back to keep the cravings within reason until I can Find a real on (Link/8, /I /L /E in order of preference for anyone thinking of parting with something. My greatest desire is getting a working TU-56 drive. But these seem to be in very short supply.. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of William Donzelli >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:07 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only >>> Subject: Re: Computer Replicas >>> >>> > I think you need a bit of perspective here! "Lots of us" is a >>> > microscopic crowd, a very few hardcore collectors with the $ to >>> > stockpile. >>> >>> I think the number of people on this list with PDPs of some >>> flavor would be quite high - maybe at least 20 percent? It >>> is a rough guess, but judging from the posts here and there >>> over the years... >>> >>> As far as "$ to stockpile" - almost anyone on this list >>> could have a PDP-8 (with the exception of a Straight, >>> LINC-8, or -8/S) if they put their mind to it. They are >>> still out there, so if money is problem, old fashioned >>> legwork will eventually pay off. An then there is ebay, of >>> course, and we all know that quite few PDP-8s appear every >>> year. Spending $1000-2000 for a PDP-8 (maybe an 8/E) is >>> really not completely insane. Put in some overtime, wheel >>> and deal, sacrifice a few other luxuries, whatever - budget >>> and save and that $2000 will appear. >>> >>> Now an S/360 is a different matter. I have worked my legs >>> for something like seven years for one, and nothing has >>> come my way (although I missed that model 22 by a few >>> weeks, I think). I have also made a serious budget for one >>> if Ebay finally pops one up, but none have. Where am I to get one? >>> >>> William Donzelli >>> aw288@osfn.org >>> >>> From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 30 19:04:06 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040330200008.00ae5d48@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Brian Mahoney may have mentioned these words: > >Does anyone know any more > > about Matrix or these cards? >Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in >Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. Major >competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything >either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for general >matrix info. Erm, you might be thinking of "Matrox" -> Entirely different critter - and they're still around, altho video cards aren't their primary business anymore... They still make a few cards from the Millennium line, and they have a new line called Parhelia - they were one of the first cards to offer dual-head capabilities for the PC, and it looks like this parhelia critter may do *triple-head* ;-) ooOOoohh... if only I could afford one of those with 3 LCDs... ;-) http://www.matrox.com/ Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 19:09:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:27 2005 Subject: Space Shuttle Main Engine Computer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330200915.008456a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone here have any info or pictures of the >>>>>Block 1<<<<<< SSMEC? I think I have parts of it but I need to verify that that's what they are. Joe From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Mar 30 19:41:51 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040330204151.05ebe972.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:06:31 -0500 (EST) William Donzelli wrote: > > I think you need a bit of perspective here! "Lots of us" is > > a microscopic crowd, a very few hardcore collectors with the > > $ to stockpile. > > I think the number of people on this list with PDPs of some flavor would > be quite high - maybe at least 20 percent? It is a rough guess, but > judging from the posts here and there over the years... > I have a few tubes of IM6100 Microprocessor chips, which is the first generation 'PDP-8 on a chip.' That's as close as I come to having a PDP-8 though. I programmed a PDP-8 in the 'Introduction to Computer Programming' course that I took at Hamline University in St. Paul, Minnesota in 1978. And I worked at a Microfilm shop that had COM (Computer Output to Microfilm) Cameras controlled by PDP-8 processors a few years after that. Otherwise I have had little experience with DEC gear, though I'm about ready to track down my first VAX sometime soon (I hope). > As far as "$ to stockpile" - almost anyone on this list could have a PDP-8 > (with the exception of a Straight, LINC-8, or -8/S) if they put their mind > to it. They are still out there, so if money is problem, old fashioned > legwork will eventually pay off. An then there is ebay, of course, and we > all know that quite few PDP-8s appear every year. Spending $1000-2000 for > a PDP-8 (maybe an 8/E) is really not completely insane. Put in some > overtime, wheel and deal, sacrifice a few other luxuries, whatever - > budget and save and that $2000 will appear. > > Now an S/360 is a different matter. I have worked my legs for something > like seven years for one, and nothing has come my way (although I missed > that model 22 by a few weeks, I think). I have also made a serious budget > for one if Ebay finally pops one up, but none have. Where am I to get one? > Wouldn't you need a raised floor/controlled-environment to run a S/360? My dad worked with those back in the day, and I have an authentic official 'System 360' Ashtray still in the box that he brought home, but that's the only S/360 item in my collection. Anybody else have a S/360 ashtry, or one of the wooden 'THINK' desk signs IBM distributed in the 60's? (still have one of those dad gave me, too) I really, REALLY wish I hadn't lost track of the IBM LP record I used to have from some IBM Symposium. It had IBMers singing songs, etc. They had an official Company song, back in the day. From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Mar 30 19:46:42 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: anybody know of GOOD serach engine? In-Reply-To: <20040330142525.86778.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040330002627.7ab5d1b8.sastevens@earthlink.net> <20040330142525.86778.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040330204642.147d9f51.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:25:25 -0800 (PST) steve wrote: > > --- Scott Stevens wrote: > > > > > The nightmare I have experienced recently is trying > > to get any information on older Laptops. I.e. I > > have taken a liking for Toshiba 2100 series 486 > > laptops. If you try to search Google for anything > > relating to them, i.e. to find out what speed > > processor they have in them, what video chip they > > use, you're deluged with Laptop Battery ads for > > batteries priced at 2-5 times what you paid for the > > laptop. > > > > > For a specific problem like that you might want to > search for "Toshiba 2100 -battery" > > That works, as long as there is no mention of the term battery on the pages that you happen to want. There likely is on some of the pages with valuable content. I guess we get all the 'search engine' we pay for, though, since Google is free. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 30 20:09:22 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040331020922.GA22077@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 12:46:29PM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > Lots of "reproductions" are disappointing if all of the > physicality isn't right, to me anyways. A PDP-8 that was 2" > thick and hung on the wall just wouldn't cut it. I know it > sounds pedantic but clearly, we're talking about an aesthetic > experience, if you just wanted to run the software an emulator > is enough. WE WANT HARDWARE! Hey! I happen to like my SBC-6120... I'll be hanging it on the wall as soon as I can fashion a frame for it. For now, it sits next to my desk. You could always mount it in a rack (with a lot of empty space behind it ;-) Speaking of which, since the SBC-6120 is 2/3 size, I've been thinking what it would take to put dual 5.25" floppies in an undersized "rack". I've already been thinking about how to use some of the 36 I/O pins on the IOB-6120 to talk to a real RX01/RX02 drive... this would be an extension of that. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 02:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -86.8 F (-66.0 C) Windchill -128.3 F (-89.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.6 kts Grid 057 Barometer 673.9 mb (10856. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 30 20:11:57 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040331021157.GB22077@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 01:00:21PM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > LGP-21 fixed-head-platter mechanical memory (main store, > not "disk") the heads sit crashed (sic) and lift when up to > speed. The platter surface has fine scoring -- it's normal. It's > only 80 bits per inch. Nickel plated steel. In fact, there's > little springs that press the heads DOWNWARD. Sounds a bit like the DEC DF-32 - 1/4" steel platters plated with something (nickel?) The drive motor has a seperate power switch from the electronics, so that if you have to service the controller or read/write hardware, you can leave the disk turning. You'd only have to spin down if you wanted to work inside the HDA. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 02:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -86.3 F (-65.7 C) Windchill -129 F (-89.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.9 kts Grid 049 Barometer 673.9 mb (10856. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 20:17:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040330182010.0507d1a8@mail.30below.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330155944.0087b910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330211734.008d5990@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:27 PM 3/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >Rumor has it that Joe R. may have mentioned these words: > >> You guys must have a different Google than I have! The first TWO hits >>that I got are for Dial Electronics. They have the part listed but don't >>say what it is, who made it or how much they want for it. The next two >>hits are for HKinventory and they give the same lack of information. Then >>USBid, Doom, and others. NONE of them give any information about the part >>at all. Thre are pages and pages of the same kind of useless hits. That's >>why I'm dumping Google! >> >> Joe > >Admittedly OT, but I hope this helps: > >Have you scanned your system for spyware? 2 programs work well for this: >Ad-Aware 6.0 (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/) and Spybot Search & Destroy >(http://security.kolla.de/) I have both of them installed and I've run them tonight and haven't found anything. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 30 20:18:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: any Honeywell H316 experts out there? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040330211850.00881d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've come across something very interesting and have some questions. Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Mar 30 20:46:48 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any estimates on what would be a "reasonable" estimate for shipping a Teletype (with base, two cartons] Origination is Long Island, Destination is not known except it will be within the "lower 48" states. Also any recommendations on a carrier? Finally any "sepcial packing techniques [specifically any internal assemblies that need to be secured]? Thanks in advance. From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Mar 30 20:58:56 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <000801c416b3$c150edc0$e12e1941@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000701c416a3$e31faa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> <000801c416b3$c150edc0$e12e1941@game> Message-ID: <406A33F0.6020001@pacbell.net> Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Mahoney" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: Matrix 3U CPU card? ... >>Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in >>Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. > > Major > >>competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything >>either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for > > general > >>matrix info. >> >> > > > You are thinking of Matrox from Canada, they are still around ( > www.matrox.com ) Matrox has been in the business longer than any of the other current graphics card makers, by far. I have an S-100 matrox card that does 256x256x1 graphics. You could gang them in parallel for color or greyscale. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Mar 30 21:19:22 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files References: Message-ID: <406A38BA.F9014EAD@compsys.to> >"David V. Corbin" wrote: > Rich, > There are a number of techniques. A simple one (that is fairly accurate and > free) is to simply list the file count / and total size. This will point out > a mismatch quite quickly. Jerome Fine replies: I realize that you are using Windows NT which would not allow the following suggestion, but for others that use Windows 98 SE, I do the following: Using GHOST, I am able to generate an text file which contains a list of every file, the modification date, a 32 bit CRC value for the file and the byte size of the file. This file can also be generated when I make a backup image of the complete (or any portion) of the files on the hard drive. The text for about 11,214 files and 1090 directories uses about 900 KBytes. It takes about 5 minutes to backup 2 GBytes of files and the compressed image file is about 900 MBytes. When I wish to know exactly which files have changed or have been deleted or added, I am able to use FC.EXE and it provides the needed information. Naturally, if there are more than about a few hundred changes, it starts to get a bit difficult. > I also have some tools that basically do the same thing, but more in-depth. > Please contact me off-list if you wish. > David V. Corbin > >>> Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files > >>> I just moved most of my collection of on-line data to a > >>> new server here at home. I want to verify that all files > >>> have been copied and I didn't miss any > >>> directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a > >>> drag-and-drop across the network. > >>> What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT > >>> (Server) and I'm looking at about 22gb of files of various > >>> types -- from music to source code. > >>> Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby > >>> for this verification before I wipe it clean for sale. I also have a few tricks that are useful, but they run under RT-11 under the E11 emulator. I copy the text files, using PUTR, to a file which E11 makes available. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From nerdware at ctgonline.org Tue Mar 30 22:31:08 2004 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Time to purge! Message-ID: <4069F52C.29450.2F01A5DE@localhost> I'm officially giving up collecting. When I started, I didn't realize the amount of space it would take, and I also didn't realize that there were people out there with 1000 times more stuff, who actually had time to use it.... I've gotten rid of most of it a couple years ago, but it's time to get rid of everything except my original Vic20 and C=64, and my 2 Amigas. Here's what has to go: 2 Apple IIGs cpu's, one 5-1/4" floppy, one 3-1/2" floppy, modem and monitor 3 Apple Disk ]['s Apple ][e Apple ][ Monitor for ][ (monochrome) Macintosh Performa 400 Imagewriter ][ Smith-Corona Daisywheel printer (was used with Kaypro II) Commodore Plus 4 IBM PCjr box of Kaypro software miscellaneous Apple software other crap as I come across it I just want this to go to someone who has time to play with it. You pay shipping -- it's yours. Or, if you're in the Chicago/NW Indiana area, I can arrange for pickup. I want this out of here by the end of next week. If nobody wants it, it will unfortunately go to the recycler. Email me. Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 23:04:45 2004 From: mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com (Miroslav Pokorni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? Message-ID: <002101c416dd$af93d0a0$cd563f04@miroslav2> Matrix might have been a maker of VME CPU boards, but video board maker from Montreal was named Matrox and they are still in existence, web address is: http://www.matrox.com/ . You might want to try VITA's web site: http://www.vita.com/jun96vj/toc.html for some information on Matrix' CPU boards; VITA is VME maker's association and they might have information on legacy products. Additionally, you can try search on Google for all three words: "matrix cpu vme". Regards Miroslav Pokorni From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 30 23:40:23 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Vernon Buerg "List" clone for "C" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pardon my ignorance, but is anyone aware of a clone for Vernon Buerg's LIST program that will run on the various Unix flavors? It would be awfully handy on my shell account! - don From jwest at kwcorp.com Tue Mar 30 10:04:54 2004 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: AIX Message-ID: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'm sorry, but I've worked extensively on many differen't unices, and AIX is truely evil. Guess if it's the only unix you deal with so you don't keep having to switch mentality between AIX and everything else... Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Mar 30 10:10:15 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: > Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 In-Reply-To: <20040329080605.GA26993@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200403282347.i2SNlkk3028046@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200403301610.i2UGAGk3020505@mail.bcpl.net> On 29 Mar 2004 at 8:06, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Mar 28, 2004 at 06:47:43PM -0500, J. David Bryan wrote: > > > > Would a PDF scan of that datasheet be of help? > > Yes! I've posted the scan to: http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/DS8867.pdf It's about 44K (only two pages in the datasheet). > Thanks, You're welcome. I couldn't find a Monsanto databook at work, so I can't help with the MAN2815. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Mar 30 12:11:55 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Great Finds at AuctionToday In-Reply-To: <4065243C.4090408@mcdermith.net> References: <000c01c413a1$4c786ec0$56406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <200403301811.i2UIBuk3022119@mail.bcpl.net> On 26 Mar 2004 at 23:50, Bill McDermith wrote: > Keys wrote: > > Went to a school auction and picked up the following: > > HP 3000 model 922LX > > Never heard of a 3000 with this model number -- sure it > wasn't a hp 300? That was one of the low-end PA-RISC 3000s (as opposed to the "classic" TTL/ECL 3000s). I have an HP datasheet for it (5952-0976, Dec-1989). > That would be about the size of a breadbox (or a terminal) -- the 3000 > is _much_ larger (several racks)... 29.5 x 14.8 x 27.9 inches and 244 pounds, according to the 922LX sheet. -- Dave From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Mar 30 13:30:12 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4602@MAIL10> Patrick: Funny you should mention Windiff. After reading the responses today I was going to use Windiff to compare the directory printouts produced on both machines and see if there's a difference in the output. But thinking about it, Windiff has the ability to directly compare directories. If I point it at the top "parent" on each machine I should be able to see differences right away. I guess then the final test would be comparing the MD5's on each directory to ensure file integrity. Any good MD5 utilities for Windows that will handle large file sets? I downloaded two today but one is a file-by file MD5 and the other doesn't recurse down the directory tree...it only does the current directory. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:54 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; CCTech (E-mail) Subject: RE: Comparing existence of massive number of files Rich, one word: windiff. It's in the NT resource kit, and I think it's in the small version of the kit downloadable at the URL below. --Patrick http://www.microsoft.com/ntworkstation/downloads/recommended/featured/ntkit. asp?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard A. Cini > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:44 PM > To: CCTech (E-mail) > Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files > > > Hello, all: > > I just moved most of my collection of on-line data to a new > server here at > home. I want to verify that all files have been copied and I > didn't miss any > directories/subdirectories. Basically I did it through a drag-and-drop > across the network. > > What's the best way to do this? The OS is Windows NT > (Server) and I'm > looking at about 22gb of files of various types -- from music to source > code. > > Any ideas? I still have the original server on standby for this > verification before I wipe it clean for sale. > > Thanks again. > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From keith at saracom.com Tue Mar 30 19:14:07 2004 From: keith at saracom.com (El Presidente) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: HP9826 Question - Basic 5.12 and such Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20040330200342.017cb200@mail.saracom.com> Hello all, I have a question or 2 to ask on the HP9826. I am now the proud owner of the labs old system. Now I have several issues to resolve. The first is the reason I have and the lab does not. The display is out of focus and not too bright. I have tried to adjust using the pots inside labeled focus brightness. It helped alittle but not much. Any ideas? Also its no fun without an OS. Now we have BASIC Ver 5.12 at the lab. Unfortunately its on 3 1/2 inch diskettes and the HP9826 has a 5 1/4 diskette drive. Hence short of using a mallet that won't help. So is there a method of using a PC to make 5 1/4s for it since I do have the 3 1/2s? Thanks Max From vrs at msn.com Wed Mar 31 00:13:14 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Looking for TC08 Wire List Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone out there have a TC08 wire list? I am thinking of creating a replica TC08 and need a way to check my work. ECO information would be good to have, too. Thanks! Vince From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 31 00:24:38 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > I'm sorry, but I've worked extensively on many differen't unices, and AIX is > truely evil. Guess if it's the only unix you deal with so you don't keep > having to switch mentality between AIX and everything else... Ah, but there's your problem. You're thinking that AIX is unix. It _is_ UNIX(tm), but it really really isn't unix. It's a very proprietary OS with a very slick unix user interface and API. Doc From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 00:50:41 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Time to purge! In-Reply-To: <4069F52C.29450.2F01A5DE@localhost> References: <4069F52C.29450.2F01A5DE@localhost> Message-ID: <20040331015041.238f6429.sastevens@earthlink.net> Just a followup after looking more at what you listed. Is the Kaypro software CP/M-80 stuff? I have a KayPro CP/M-80 machine that came with the boot floppy for the OS but nothing more in the way of software and would badly like to get more software for it. Also have a KayPro portable 8088-based PC compatible machine that would match up with it, if it's later Kaypro "PC" software for MSDOS. Thanks again, Scott On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:31:08 -0600 "Paul Braun" wrote: > I'm officially giving up collecting. When I started, I didn't realize the > amount of space it would take, and I also didn't realize that there > were people out there with 1000 times more stuff, who actually had > time to use it.... > > I've gotten rid of most of it a couple years ago, but it's time to get rid > of everything except my original Vic20 and C=64, and my 2 Amigas. > > Here's what has to go: > > 2 Apple IIGs cpu's, one 5-1/4" floppy, one 3-1/2" floppy, modem and > monitor > > 3 Apple Disk ]['s > Apple ][e > Apple ][ > Monitor for ][ (monochrome) > Macintosh Performa 400 > Imagewriter ][ > > Smith-Corona Daisywheel printer (was used with Kaypro II) > Commodore Plus 4 > IBM PCjr > > box of Kaypro software > miscellaneous Apple software > > other crap as I come across it > > > > I just want this to go to someone who has time to play with it. You > pay shipping -- it's yours. Or, if you're in the Chicago/NW Indiana > area, I can arrange for pickup. > > I want this out of here by the end of next week. If nobody wants it, it > will unfortunately go to the recycler. > > Email me. Thanks. > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > > "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog > without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." > From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 31 00:54:13 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: <200403301922.30062.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200403301922.30062.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200403310154.13977.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 19:22, Mike wrote: > On March 30, 2004 06:06 pm, William Donzelli wrote: > > Now an S/360 is a different matter. I have worked my legs for > > something like seven years for one, and nothing has come my way > > (although I missed that model 22 by a few weeks, I think). I have > > also made a serious budget for one if Ebay finally pops one up, but > > none have. Where am I to get one? > > I mentioned the desire for a S/360 to an IBM rep this past weekend. > He said he couldn't give away the last one he had. > > Also there is a problem of getting the software for it. He > mentioned that a developers license was available for ~15,000. > > Has anyone asked IBM to consider a hobbyist license? Umm, you can at least get OS/360 for free: http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/ Right now I'm having trouble with their website, however... Anyways, IBM put OS/360 in the public domain, and I've got a CD image with it on there, for use with Hercules. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 31 00:55:14 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: References: <406239A8.6070807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200403310155.14678.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 15:46, Tom Jennings wrote: > Other than reminiscing about obscure machines we personally love, > if you wanted to actuallyt make/sell a bunch to amortize > cost, I'd think something more common like a PDP-8 would be a better > choice. What would be fun about selling it??? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Mar 30 22:56:56 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040330204151.05ebe972.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <20040330204151.05ebe972.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 08:41:51PM -0500, Scott Stevens wrote: > I have a few tubes of IM6100 Microprocessor chips, which is the first > generation 'PDP-8 on a chip.' I have a tube as well (as do many of us, here and on the PDP-8 lists). What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept Jr. or the Jolt. I have brief descriptions in a 1978 Popular Electronics special issue in a section reviewing "all" of the available microcomputers of the day. That's all I've got. I know they aren't particularly powerful machines (ISTR without external logic, the IM6100 is limited to 4KW, among other issues), but I'd like to know more about them just the same. I also bought that tube of IM6100s in the hope that by the principle of "classic attraction", I'd run across a VT78... hasn't happened yet. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 04:51 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -78.7 F (-61.5 C) Windchill -120.9 F (-85 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.1 kts Grid 022 Barometer 674.6 mb (10832. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From frank at artair.com Wed Mar 31 01:06:55 2004 From: frank at artair.com (Frank Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040330192858.0084b210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040330145348.00860370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040330192858.0084b210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <26860000.1080716815@[10.50.1.10]> Check the Internet Wayback Machine , search for matrix.com and you'll find them if you grab some of the older pages. Their April 2001 homw page says they became part of the Cetia Corp. Frank --On Tuesday, March 30, 2004 19:28:58 -0500 "Joe R." wrote: > Are you sure that you're not thinking of Matrox? They're still alive > and well (in Canada). > > I tried searching for Matrix along with various other terms such as 3U, > 68000, CPU, etc but found that Matrix is a VERY common term :-( > > Joe > > At 05:11 PM 3/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe R." >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM >> Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? >> >> >>> I found several of these a few days ago but I can't find anything about >>> them or the company that made them on the net. They're 3U type cards with >>> 68000-10 CPUs and are marked MATRIX MS-CPU-02C. I found one mention of a >>> computer company called Matrix in an old copy of a VME news letter and >> they >>> said that the URL for Matrix is www.matrix.com but now that URL belongs to >>> a company that supplies hair care products. Does anyone know any more >>> about Matrix or these cards? >> Matrix was one of the foremost video card manufacturers, used to be in >> Montreal. They were around not too long ago, maybe three years or so. Major >> competition to ATI at that time. I searched and couldn't find anything >> either. You might want to check out the forums at maximumpc.com for general >> matrix info. >> >> From klemens.krause at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Wed Mar 31 01:07:24 2004 From: klemens.krause at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Klemens Krause) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330172941.GD1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <16489.44697.742236.374565@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <406A6E2C.1554BC67@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Paul Koning schrieb: > > >> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 10:04:37AM +0200, Christian Corti wrote: > > >> And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. > > R> Hmmm... then you haven't heard of Mel either? > > Ah yes.... I wonder if it's a true story -- and if so, whether anyone > has the code. What better program to run on that LGP-30? > Naturally, the story of Mel is true in every detail. Program we run on out LGP-30 are: ACT-V, an improved Version of Mel's ACT-I. We can play Moonlander, or print nice function-tables. (If you want to use the squareroot or sine- function in an ACT program you have to load this function on a free track on the drum. We have two programs to calculate the number PI. Ther are some versions of a floating point interpreter. Christian wrote a poem generating program. And last but not least: Black Jack. BTW: I just had a look to the link Al Kossow pointet to http://www.wps.com/projects/LGP-21/mel-the-programmer.html It shows the head of a coding sheet reffering to program 13.0. A look in our program library: We have the program 13.2 as paper tape. The programs had no names, they numbered them from 9 upwards, with a version number behind the decimalpoint. Klemens -- ---------------------------------------------- Klemens Krause Universitaet Stuttgart / Inst. f. Softwaretechnologie Universitaetsstr. 38 / 70569 Stuttgart Tel.: 0711/7816 341 From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Mar 31 01:05:03 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Vernon Buerg "List" clone for "C" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403310719.CAA02311@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Pardon my ignorance, but is anyone aware of a clone for Vernon > Buerg's LIST program that will run on the various Unix flavors? Assuming you're talking about the program http://www.buerg.com/list.htm describes...well, it's very thoroughly counter to the Unix philosphy of "each program does just one thing and does it well". At a minimum, it would have to include the equivalent of - or be prepared to fork and process output from - tip/chat ("dialer"), tar/pax/cpio/ar/etc (the various archive features), lpr/lprng/etc (printing), grep/egrep/etc (searching), find (directory tree walking), hexdump (looking at things in hex), and possibly others (for example, I don't know what "network compatible" is supposed to mean). This probably could be done, but it would be a pretty horrible mess. > It would be awfully handy on my shell account! Perhaps. You probably would be better off, in the long run, learning to use the full power of the existing tools, though; you'll be able to do things with them that LIST cannot do[%], the skill gained will be fairly directly portable to other Unix systems (as opposed to having to install the LIST-alike), and you will learn a good deal about the underlying OS in the process. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B [%] At least based on the advertised list of features. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Mar 31 01:41:27 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Looking for spec sheet for MK6207N/MK5017BB clock chip Message-ID: <20040331074127.GA16088@bos7.spole.gov> I've found an old RadioShack package with an MK5017BB Clock/Calendar chip. Unfortunately, the datasheet which was once stapled to the back of the card is missing. Google doesn't have much on it. One interesting reference is at www.datamath.org/Mostek_IC.htm where the part number is listed in a series of calculator chips (it lists the MK5017 as having been in the Corvus 305 calculator, with square root, 1/x and a clock/calendar). I also found this picture on the die itself... http://www.mindspring.com/~mary.hall/mosteklives/photos/mostek_mickey.jpg But no specs. Does anyone have info on this thing? Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 07:31 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -78.4 F (-61.3 C) Windchill -117.4 F (-83 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.5 kts Grid 018 Barometer 675.5 mb (10796. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Mar 31 01:58:46 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200403302358.46536.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I've worked extensively with Solaris, IRIX, Linux, and AIX for over twenty years (not Linux - only since release 0.9?) - and in my opinion, AIX has features that from it's inception were better than it's competitors - Logical Volumes when no one else had them - and SMIT - which made system administration simple. I've worked with AIX on accounts which had migrated from mainframes to AIX - and was pleased to find it could scale to meet the challenge. Many of today's *NIXes have caught up to AIX in features and function - But that doesn't detract from its essential qualities and history. Lyle On Tuesday 30 March 2004 08:04, Jay West wrote: > I'm sorry, but I've worked extensively on many differen't unices, and AIX > is truely evil. Guess if it's the only unix you deal with so you don't keep > having to switch mentality between AIX and everything else... > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 02:30:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Other than reminiscing about obscure machines we personally love, if you > wanted to actuallyt make/sell a bunch to amortize cost, I'd think > something more common like a PDP-8 would be a better choice. http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=PDP-8 If someone wants to quote me a good price I'll make a functional version for them ;) (The one shown is just a 3D facade...) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 31 02:32:52 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: <200403310154.13977.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200403301922.30062.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <200403310154.13977.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: >Right now I'm having trouble with their website, however... Anyways, >IBM put OS/360 in the public domain, and I've got a CD image with it on >there, for use with Hercules. IIRC, it's not so much that they put it into the public domain, as they failed to copywrite it, and it was released long enough ago that it had to be explicitly copywrited. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 02:38:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: <000801c416b3$c150edc0$e12e1941@game> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > You are thinking of Matrox from Canada, they are still around ( > www.matrox.com ) And they've been around since the 70s I believe. I have at least one Matrox S-100 board (I assume the same company...it might even be a video display board). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 02:45:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <20040331021157.GB22077@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 01:00:21PM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > > LGP-21 fixed-head-platter mechanical memory (main store, > > not "disk") the heads sit crashed (sic) and lift when up to > > speed. The platter surface has fine scoring -- it's normal. It's > > only 80 bits per inch. Nickel plated steel. In fact, there's > > little springs that press the heads DOWNWARD. > > Sounds a bit like the DEC DF-32 - 1/4" steel platters plated with something > (nickel?) The drive motor has a seperate power switch from the electronics, The Librascope L321 fixed-head drive I've got is coated with cobalt according to the literature. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 02:50:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Any estimates on what would be a "reasonable" estimate for shipping a > Teletype (with base, two cartons] Origination is Long Island, Destination is > not known except it will be within the "lower 48" states. > > Also any recommendations on a carrier? > > Finally any "sepcial packing techniques [specifically any internal > assemblies that need to be secured]? I shipped an ASR-33 complete on a stand to Canada and back. It survived the trip both ways but for the fall it took when it was being moved by van back to the warehouse to be re-crated for the return trip home. It took some damage to the top cover (the paper tape spool corner snapped off) but they paid dearly for that. At any rate, I built a custom pallet for it with some 2x4 and plywood (basically a nice solid base). I then strapped the feet of the stand to the base with those huge zip ties. I then wrapped bubble wrap around the teletype itself and put soft foam blocks in strategic locations (keyboard, back of unit) for extra padding. I then got a rather large and sturdy but perfect-fitting cardboard box and fit it over the entire teletype (stand and all) and stapled it to the base. It could now be wheeled around on a dolly quite nicely. I don't know who the shipper was; the loanee took care of that. But I would recommend you first look into DHL freight services, or Fedex or UPS. I suggest DHL because their rates are very competitive for freight service and I'm starting to like them way more than Fedex for their overall service and customer support. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 02:55:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a tube as well (as do many of us, here and on the PDP-8 lists). > What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept > Jr. or the Jolt. I have brief descriptions in a 1978 Popular Electronics > special issue in a section reviewing "all" of the available microcomputers > of the day. I've got the manual(s) for the Intercept Jr. I think I even know where they are :) The JOLT is a 6502 SBC. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From hansp at citem.org Wed Mar 31 02:56:12 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <406A87AC.6020208@citem.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >The Librascope L321 fixed-head drive I've got is coated with cobalt >according to the literature. > > Deatails please, CCC lists Libbrascope L-300, L-3055, L-3060, LGP-21 and LGP-30. but no L321. -- Hans From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 03:00:10 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040330204151.05ebe972.sastevens@earthlink.net> <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040331040010.3e6d1f2a.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:56:56 +0000 Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 08:41:51PM -0500, Scott Stevens wrote: > > I have a few tubes of IM6100 Microprocessor chips, which is the first > > generation 'PDP-8 on a chip.' > > I have a tube as well (as do many of us, here and on the PDP-8 lists). > What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept > Jr. or the Jolt. I have brief descriptions in a 1978 Popular Electronics > special issue in a section reviewing "all" of the available microcomputers > of the day. > > That's all I've got. I know they aren't particularly powerful machines > (ISTR without external logic, the IM6100 is limited to 4KW, among other > issues), but I'd like to know more about them just the same. > > I also bought that tube of IM6100s in the hope that by the principle > of "classic attraction", I'd run across a VT78... hasn't happened > yet. :-) > > -ethan > I have (I think) a full set of the docs for the Intercept and Intercept, Jr. systems, and full datasheets for the IM6100 and the Harris second source part. My 6100 chips are actually the Harris part. I have it all converted into PDF files and if anybody wants it I can put it up on private webspace and post the URL (or email it). Or send out CDs. The 6100 is quite limited, being it only addresses 4K of memory, but it's also extremely easy to put together a circuit for. It has really non-critical clocking requirements, you can even drive the clock in true 'single step' with a pushbutton or a 1 Hz clock if you like. Hook up a reed relay to the hamster wheel or what-not. The 6120 is a much nicer processor to put together a 'real' single-board PDP-8 system. What I'd like to make out of a 6100 chip is a primative 'program with toggle switches and read LEDs' system that would recreate the experience of programming the PDP-8 at the switch panel in machine code. I'd envision a single-board with the processor, the blinking lights and row of switches, with a little memory, probably some of it battery-backed SRAM. Nothing more complex than that. I don't envision running FOCAL or an OS or anything complex on such a little thing. It would just be a cool 'toy' to dabble in machine code on toggle switches with. If others had more ambitious plans that would be neat, too, but this has already been done so nicely with the 6120 that it probably isn't worth it. Much as we can be nostalgic, 4K isn't a very big memoryspace, even with a 12 bit wordlength. -Scott From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 03:23:15 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: References: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040331042315.65135d02.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:55:23 -0800 (PST) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have a tube as well (as do many of us, here and on the PDP-8 lists). > > What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept > > Jr. or the Jolt. I have brief descriptions in a 1978 Popular Electronics > > special issue in a section reviewing "all" of the available microcomputers > > of the day. > > I've got the manual(s) for the Intercept Jr. I think I even know where > they are :) > My copy of the IM6100 and Intercept Jr. docs is in electronic-only form. I received it in the form of multi-page TIF files awhile back and converted it all to PDF for my personal use. I've decided to risk the bandwidth-suck of putting some of it up on some webspace of mine. The IM6100 datasheet and the Intercept Jr. Manual, including schematics, will shortly be available at http://sasteven.multics.org/IM6100/ Please note that the Intercept Jr. Manual is a huge 13.5 meg scanned PDF. Individual pages, i.e. the schematics, etc. can be made available as stand-alone pages if need be. I have datasheets in this format for the whole 6100 series chipset family and also the larger Intercept system. For those who want the whole thing, it would be much more practical to send out CDRs in the mail. If someone wants to host all this info they are welcome to it. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Mar 31 03:17:34 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <200403302358.46536.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200403302358.46536.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <200403310924.EAA02806@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [quoting order fixed up -dM] >> I'm sorry, but I've worked extensively on many differen't unices, >> and AIX is truely evil. Guess if it's the only unix you deal with >> so you don't keep having to switch mentality between AIX and >> everything else... > I've worked extensively with Solaris, IRIX, Linux, and AIX for over > twenty years (not Linux - only since release 0.9?) - and in my > opinion, AIX has features that from it's inception were better than > it's competitors - Logical Volumes when no one else had them - and > SMIT - which made system administration simple. Like Jay, I've worked with various different unices (for most of my career, I was a sysadmin at a university research lab), and at one point one of them was AIX. And I'm with Jay on this. Perhaps SMIT makes sysadmin simple if you don't mind drinking the IBM kool-aid - but if you're trying to manage a heterogenous pile of machines and keep them more or less similar to one another as far as you can, AIX is practically guaranteed to be an outlier. Way, way out. We called it "aches" for a reason. Or at least it was back then. I don't know what it's like now. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 31 04:44:30 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <200403310924.EAA02806@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Or at least it was back then. I don't know what it's like now. The same, but still not as bad as Irix or A/UX. --f From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Mar 31 05:06:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: 93448 IC? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040330130931.00974dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040330155944.0087b910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1080731167.17674.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 00:17, vrs wrote: > > You guys must have a different Google than I have! The first TWO hits > > that I got are for Dial Electronics. They have the part listed but don't > > say what it is, who made it or how much they want for it. The next two > > hits are for HKinventory and they give the same lack of information. Then > > USBid, Doom, and others. NONE of them give any information about the part > > at all. Thre are pages and pages of the same kind of useless hits. That's > > why I'm dumping Google! > > If I search for "93448-DC" I get the same junk. If I search for "93448" I > get the pdf file mentioned earlier as the first hit. I'm picking up this thread a little late, so haven't seen the earlier posts. However, I just tried it here with both www.google.co.uk and www.google.com, and get the same results as the original poster - all the Doom, Dial and other commercial-but-useless crap comes first. I tried the UK site after dumping Google's cookie and not setting any preferences, just in case that was the problem; still no luck. Generally I exclude Dial and Doom from my search if I'm looking for parts specs - looks like HKInventory will be joining that list. Alternatively posting to sci.electronics.repair tends to be handy for getting hold of datasheets if google is proving useless. I'm running Opera under Linux by the way, so spyware doesn't come into it here. cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 31 05:55:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? In-Reply-To: References: <000801c416b3$c150edc0$e12e1941@game> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040331065511.0081ca90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:38 AM 3/31/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > >> You are thinking of Matrox from Canada, they are still around ( >> www.matrox.com ) > >And they've been around since the 70s I believe. I have at least one >Matrox S-100 board (I assume the same company...it might even be a video >display board). It's almost certainly a video card. I don't think Matrox ever built anything else. I have a couple of different Matrox s-100 cards, a Multibus card and IIRC a STD-bus card. Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 31 05:53:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: HP9826 Question - Basic 5.12 and such In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20040330200342.017cb200@mail.saracom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040331065334.0081cbd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:14 PM 3/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I have a question or 2 to ask on the HP9826. I am now the proud owner of >the labs old system. >Now I have several issues to resolve. The first is the reason I have and >the lab does not. The >display is out of focus and not too bright. I have tried to adjust using >the pots inside labeled focus >brightness. It helped alittle but not much. Any ideas? > >Also its no fun without an OS. Now we have BASIC Ver 5.12 at the >lab. Unfortunately its on >3 1/2 inch diskettes and the HP9826 has a 5 1/4 diskette drive. Hence >short of using a mallet >that won't help. So is there a method of using a PC to make 5 1/4s for it >since I do have the >3 1/2s? It's POSSIBLE to transfer data that way but it probably won't work in this case since the 3 1/2" hold a lot more data and the 5 1/4" needs to be bootable. Can you borrow your labs 3 1/2" drive or borrow one from someone else? Are your 3 1/2"s single or double sided? Where are you located? Joe > >Thanks >Max > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Mar 31 07:08:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: References: <20040331021157.GB22077@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040331130820.GA14559@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 12:45:12AM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 01:00:21PM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > LGP-21 fixed-head-platter mechanical memory (main store, > > > not "disk") the heads sit crashed (sic) and lift when up to > > > speed. The platter surface has fine scoring -- it's normal. It's > > > only 80 bits per inch. Nickel plated steel. In fact, there's > > > little springs that press the heads DOWNWARD. > > > > Sounds a bit like the DEC DF-32 - 1/4" steel platters plated with something > > (nickel?) The drive motor has a seperate power switch from the electronics, > > The Librascope L321 fixed-head drive I've got is coated with cobalt > according to the literature. My anecdotal evidence is that the DF-32 disk is Omsmium plated. I hope not, as I have four platters with, probably, fatal levels of restarting, meaning that if I ever want to return them to service, I'll have to either replace or replate the platters. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 13:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -77 F (-60.6 C) Windchill -136.3 F (-93.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.2 kts Grid 006 Barometer 677.1 mb (10735. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Mar 31 07:10:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: References: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040331131020.GB14559@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 12:55:23AM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have a tube as well (as do many of us, here and on the PDP-8 lists). > > What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept > > Jr. or the Jolt. > > I've got the manual(s) for the Intercept Jr. I think I even know where > they are :) Care to share? :-) > The JOLT is a 6502 SBC. Whoops... maybe it is... I forget... I _think_ there were two IM6100 micros in 1978... if it isn't the Intercept Jr., what am I thinking of? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 13:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -77 F (-60.6 C) Windchill -136.3 F (-93.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.2 kts Grid 006 Barometer 677.1 mb (10735. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Mar 31 07:13:14 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040331042315.65135d02.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> <20040331042315.65135d02.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040331131314.GC14559@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 04:23:15AM -0500, Scott Stevens wrote: > For those who want the whole thing, it would be much more practical to > send out CDRs in the mail. Well, speaking for myself, I'd rather D/L 40Mb than wait for late October for U.S. Mail to resume. I'm happy to download whatever before November. Cheers, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 13:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.9 F (-60.5 C) Windchill -132.2 F (-91.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.2 kts Grid 003 Barometer 677.1 mb (10735. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From shirsch at adelphia.net Wed Mar 31 06:37:10 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > I'm sorry, but I've worked extensively on many differen't unices, and AIX is > truely evil. Guess if it's the only unix you deal with so you don't keep > having to switch mentality between AIX and everything else... I'll second and third that. The linker, in particular, is a huge pain-in-the-rear. It's almost axiomatic that if a bit of free software builds and runs without modification on every other flavor of Unix/Linux, it will require a week of hair-pulling to bring up on AIX. Things _are_ improving, though. Since AIX 4.2.something, it's a bit less painful to build shared libs and dynamically-loaded objects. From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Mar 31 08:45:19 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:28 2005 Subject: 93448 ic Message-ID: <040331094519.879d@splab.cas.neu.edu> >From the 1977 Fairchild Bipolar Memory book: 93448-DC isoplanar schottky ttl memory, 512x8 programmable read only memory. nichrome fuse links. d is for ceramic dip, c is for supply voltage tolerance and temperature range (needs better supply, not as wide an operating range) 24 pin. joe heck From CPUMECH at aol.com Wed Mar 31 08:07:17 2004 From: CPUMECH at aol.com (CPUMECH@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype Message-ID: <88.7139b48.2d9c2a95@aol.com> Which model? I know on a model 33 you have to put a shipping bolt in the printer mechanism thru the base to secure it. From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Mar 31 08:20:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <20040331021157.GB22077@bos7.spole.gov> <20040331130820.GA14559@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16490.54172.546000.30324@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> My anecdotal evidence is that the DF-32 disk is Omsmium Ethan> plated. I hope not, as I have four platters with, probably, Ethan> fatal levels of restarting, meaning that if I ever want to Ethan> return them to service, I'll have to either replace or replate Ethan> the platters. That would be expensive if true. But it doesn't make any sense. The plating has to be ferromagnetic. Nickel or cobalt are, but osmium is not. paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Mar 31 08:29:59 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403310929.59823.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 31 March 2004 03:30, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > Other than reminiscing about obscure machines we personally love, > > if you wanted to actuallyt make/sell a bunch to amortize cost, I'd > > think something more common like a PDP-8 would be a better choice. > > http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=PDP-8 > > If someone wants to quote me a good price I'll make a functional > version for them ;) > > (The one shown is just a 3D facade...) Wow, that's f*cking amazing! Good job! If I had a few spare dollars laying around, I'd consider your offer. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Mar 31 08:32:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: Message-ID: <16490.54904.78000.796185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> LGP-21 fixed-head-platter mechanical memory (main store, not >> "disk") the heads sit crashed (sic) and lift when up to speed. The >> platter surface has fine scoring -- it's normal. It's only 80 bits >> per inch. Nickel plated steel. In fact, there's little springs >> that press the heads DOWNWARD. Tony> FWIW, the springs on hard disk heads press the heads _towards_ Tony> the platter too. Look at something like an RK05 sometime. The Tony> heads are lifted by flying on the air dragged round by the Tony> platter. Drives like the RK05 retract the heads as part of spindown, so the heads never land on the platter. They only load when the disk is up to speed. Gravity is a component of the head loading force, which is why the "up" and "down" heads are different -- different springs. paul From cb at mythtech.net Wed Mar 31 08:56:37 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype Message-ID: >Any estimates on what would be a "reasonable" estimate for shipping a >Teletype (with base, two cartons] Origination is Long Island, Destination is >not known except it will be within the "lower 48" states. I shipped one a while back. I broke it down into two parts, the teletype and the base. I packed each in their own box. I got boxes that were a good bit larger than the part to be packed, and IIRC, then lined the boxes with formed FedEx boxes (the free ones you get from them) to act as stiffeners. Then lined the interior of the now "double box" assembly with bubble wrap. Then heavily wrapped the item in layers of bubble wrap. Then placed it into the box, filled the voids, put on the top layer of lining boxes, then taped it shut. I think the total cost was something like $40 or $45 per box to go from NJ to St Louis (it was probably 2 years ago, but I seem to recall it was something in that range... I think the boxes were about 65 lbs each packed). I'd assume they arrived in good condition as I didn't hear any complaints from the person I sent them to. You can ask Jay to be sure, he's the one that got it. >Also any recommendations on a carrier? I used FedEx Ground, simply because I had a FedEx account, and they were willing to do it cheaper then UPS. >Finally any "sepcial packing techniques [specifically any internal >assemblies that need to be secured]? Um... I can't help you there, I honestly hadn't thought about that issue until you asked it here. Now I am worried that I caused the thing to be trashed in shipping because I failed to bolt something in place. (Probably not, or I'm sure Jay would have complained) -chris From dan at ekoan.com Wed Mar 31 09:21:33 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Looking for spec sheet for MK6207N/MK5017BB clock chip In-Reply-To: <20040331074127.GA16088@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040331074127.GA16088@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040331101155.06416820@enigma> At 02:41 AM 3/31/04, you wrote: >I've found an old RadioShack package with an MK5017BB Clock/Calendar chip. [...] >Does anyone have info on this thing? I have a two-page datasheet from Mostek up at www.decodesystems.com/mk5017.html I became familiar with the chip while repairing early Heathkit digital clocks. If anyone has spares of the MK 5017 that they'd like to get rid of, please let me know! Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From nerdware at ctgonline.org Wed Mar 31 09:33:21 2004 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Time to Purge! -- I think it's all spoken for. Message-ID: <406A9061.13274.3F4640@localhost> I've gotten a pile of emails this morning, so after I sort through who wants what and who asked first, I think it's all gone as of this moment. As soon as I figure it out, or if I come up with more stuff, I'll post up. If you've sent me an email -- I'll get to it in a little bit. Thanks! Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@ctgonline.org "If you can make it all the way through Warren Zevon's 'The Wind' without crying, you have no soul. "At Microsoft, Quality is Job, oh, I dunno, maybe 6 or 7?" From dan at ekoan.com Wed Mar 31 09:35:44 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040330204151.05ebe972.sastevens@earthlink.net> <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040331102919.064b29f0@enigma> At 11:56 PM 3/30/04, you wrote: >What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept >Jr. or the Jolt. The 1981-1982 Synertek databook mentions the "CP110 Super Jolt" on page 5-2: SY6502 NMOS 8-Bit Microcomputer 1K Bytes of Static RAM Memory 64K Bytes of Interrupt Vector RAM 28 Bi-Directional Programmable I/O Lines 1 MHz Crystal Controlled Clock Interval Timer Four Interrupts, Including a Timer Interrupt and a Non-Maskable Interrupt Three Serial Interfaces - 20 mA Current Loop, RS-232-C and TTL Buffered Address and Data Lines 1,024 Bytes of Resident ROM Program Memory Containing DEMON Debug Monitor Program Dimensions 4.25 in. x 7.00 in The CP110 SUPER JOLT CPU board is the most versatile microcomputer on a single PC board. Connected to a terminal, the CP110 provides everything necessary to begin writing, debugging, assembling and executing microcomputer programs. Stand-alone, the CP110 is a single board OEM microcomputer suited to a wide range of dedicated applications. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Mar 31 10:37:04 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? Message-ID: > It's almost certainly a video card. I don't think > Matrox ever built anything else. Me and my Matrox CTM 300 ANSI terminals say different 8^)= Cheers, Lee ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dundas at caltech.edu Wed Mar 31 10:59:17 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: IBM available Message-ID: Another IT department here at Caltech (not mine) is looking to unload an IBM "mainframe". Details of the configuration are listed below. I believe they are willing to entertain offers of "I will take it away", if made fairly soon. If you are serious, contact me off list and I will put you in touch with the right folks. Thanks, John >Hardware: IBM 9221-170, mem - 64mb installed, no expanded ; disk - >IPL & all other vols. resided on EMC; 3274 console controller; ps2 >processor console. > >This is what the system supported in 1999 (EMC was bus/tag >connected; all adapters supporting the equip. listed below should >still be in place): > >ES9000 Mainframe Channels: > >Channel 0 - > > 02B - Printer 4245 > 02F - Printer 3203 > >Channel 1 - > > 120-159 EMC2 drives > >Channel 2 - > > 220-259 EMC2 Alternate Address > >Channel 3 - > > 360-39F 7171 > 3A0-3BF 3274 > Note: 3A1 is the main ES9000 Console >and 3A9 is the alternate > 3C0-3FF 7171 > >Channel 4 - > > 420-43F 3274 > 440-45F 3274 > 460-47F 3274 > 4A0-4DF 7171 > >Channel 5 - > > 5A0-5A5 3480 > >Channel 6 - > > 620-659 EMC2 Alternate Address > >Channel 7 - > > Microsoft Gateway > >Channel 8 - > > 820-859 EMC2 Alternate Address > >Channel 9 - > > 960-99F 7171 > 9A0 MT Gateway TOSS 256 LU's > 9A1 MT Gateway CITNET 256 LU's >Channel A and B - > > Unused -- John A. Dundas III Director, Information Technology Services Infrastructure, Caltech Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 11:25:52 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75B9CE4D-8338-11D8-91FB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Wednesday, March 31, 2004, at 12:30 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > >> Other than reminiscing about obscure machines we personally love, if >> you >> wanted to actuallyt make/sell a bunch to amortize cost, I'd think >> something more common like a PDP-8 would be a better choice. > > http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=PDP-8 look a cargo cult computer :^) From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Mar 31 12:57:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <001d01c41752$035ab590$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I also bought that tube of IM6100s in the hope that by the > principle of "classic attraction", I'd run across a VT78... > hasn't happened yet. :-) I think the reason it has not worked is that my WT78 weighs so much more than your tube of IM6100s ... still, now I know where to go should my WT ever become sick :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Mar 31 13:12:29 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4602@MAIL10> Message-ID: <001e01c41754$1cdf8980$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Any good MD5 utilities for Windows that will handle > large file sets? I downloaded two today but one is a file-by > file MD5 and the other doesn't recurse down the directory > tree...it only does the current directory. These days, when I put together a data CD, I use CDCheck to build a CRC file for it. Once the CD is burned, I verify using the same tool to be sure it all made it onto the CD. I use MD5SUM too, but that does one directory at a time (AFAICT) so it is a little less useful. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Mar 31 13:18:46 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: debugging a tu58? blank tapes or bad read channel? Message-ID: <200403311918.i2VJIk104692@mwave.heeltoe.com> Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging a TU58? This is a dual TU58 from a vax 730. The symptom is that when I try to boot from it the tape rewinds a bunch of times and then reads off the end of the tape. I removed it and poked all around with a scope and the schematics. The motor control is fine as well as the tachometer. The read channel shows no activity, even when I put a tape in and move the tape. The micro seems happy. I connected it to "tu58ctl" and I can talk to it and send/receive commands. But when I try to position the tape I get a "motor stopped" error. I'm begining to wonder if the 3 TU58 carts I have have been bulk erased. I have no "known goods" and I've never read these tapes. I made the assumption they were good but that might be a mistake. (wish I had those mythical proms which can write carts :-) I put a scope on the signal from the read heads and I see nothing when the tape spins by. I find that very odd. I would think I'd see pulses even if the blocks where all zeros... So nothing makes me think the tapes have been bulk erased. Is there any way I can test the read channel without having a good tape? (I assume not, but I know very little about tape drives, perhaps there is some 'technique'). I know the tapes are useless if they have be bulk erased - but will the symptom be no read channel activity? (I assume so). blah. if I've wasted all this time on bulk erased tapes %$#%@#@!#$ -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Mar 31 13:28:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4602@MAIL10> <001e01c41754$1cdf8980$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <16491.7123.707000.570829@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Antonio" == Antonio Carlini writes: Antonio> I use MD5SUM too, but that does one directory at a time Antonio> (AFAICT) so it is a little less useful. find . -type f -exec md5sum {} \; :-) paul From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Mar 31 13:33:01 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Matrix 3U CPU card? Message-ID: Joe R. was asking about Matrix cards We used to have a VME based x-ray film scanner that was a Matrix product, it was a prototype. If I remember correctly I think Matrix was based in California and made film cameras and scanners for industrial applications. Our initial unit had a VME controller with a micro PDP-11 as the network interface. I think I have the micro PDP-11 somewhere in my garage. Looks like Agfa purchased them. Mike From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 31 13:53:30 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas References: Message-ID: <406B21BA.8010405@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > If someone wants to quote me a good price I'll make a functional version > for them ;) > > (The one shown is just a 3D facade...) > A very nice static display, but still no blinking lights and fan noise. :) From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Mar 31 14:03:33 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: debugging a tu58? blank tapes or bad read channel? In-Reply-To: <200403311918.i2VJIk104692@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200403311918.i2VJIk104692@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > > Is there any way I can test the read channel without having a good tape? Using a known non-magnetized small screwdriver (or a freshly-degaussed one), observe the head output with the scope, and move the tip of the screwdriver blade very close to the head face. If you want, you can wrap a bit of cellophane tape (1 thihkness max) around the tip to keep from scratching anything. You should see some disturbances on the scope, if you are actually watching the raw analog sigs from the head... or you may 'fool' the electronics into thinking that it's read a bit... anyway, this can give you an indication that the head is good... beware using an ohmeter on magnetic heads, unless you have a degausser for same and use it afterwards - the DC voltage from the ohmeter will magnetize the head, and this is a Very Bad Thing for subsequent tapes. Cheers John From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 31 14:04:17 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: 256k x 4 Re: finding old RAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403311504.17109.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Those are EASY to find. Just go to a surplus store and grab the old VGA > type video cards. A lot of them used those chips and they're frequently > socketed. You need to check the part numbers, the 4 x 256k chips are > available with a number of different part numbers but the PNs are usually > some variation of xxxx4256-xxx. I have a tube of TMS4256-15nl, PDM64K-2, ... I'm still sorting the rest There 's also a bunch of unmarked chips Does anyone know how to determine what they are or should they be offered as a grab-bag. - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAayRBLPrIaE/xBZARAg6yAKCpNSTOLFVwi/XdMOxK+zRlIN9GNwCgj7Xv WfA9Vzik44GyMm8MmuQqsPo= =e6W3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 14:06:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: <406B21BA.8010405@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > If someone wants to quote me a good price I'll make a functional version > > for them ;) > > > > (The one shown is just a 3D facade...) > > > > A very nice static display, but still no blinking lights and fan noise. :) Right. A little cash can fix that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Wed Mar 31 13:02:21 2004 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Computer Replicas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Woa... Some of us have families to support. Spending $2,000 (or even $1,000 on classic computer h/w is completely out of the question). I've long longed for a blinken-lights machine, but all of my computer collecting has been at the low $ end of the spectrum and so-far I've not stumbled into an opportunity for blinkenlights. -Bob > > I think you need a bit of perspective here! "Lots of us" is >> a microscopic crowd, a very few hardcore collectors with the >> $ to stockpile. > >I think the number of people on this list with PDPs of some flavor would >be quite high - maybe at least 20 percent? It is a rough guess, but >judging from the posts here and there over the years... > >As far as "$ to stockpile" - almost anyone on this list could have a PDP-8 >(with the exception of a Straight, LINC-8, or -8/S) if they put their mind >to it. They are still out there, so if money is problem, old fashioned >legwork will eventually pay off. An then there is ebay, of course, and we >all know that quite few PDP-8s appear every year. Spending $1000-2000 for >a PDP-8 (maybe an 8/E) is really not completely insane. Put in some >overtime, wheel and deal, sacrifice a few other luxuries, whatever - >budget and save and that $2000 will appear. > >Now an S/360 is a different matter. I have worked my legs for something >like seven years for one, and nothing has come my way (although I missed >that model 22 by a few weeks, I think). I have also made a serious budget >for one if Ebay finally pops one up, but none have. Where am I to get one? > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org -- bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Mar 31 13:57:01 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Comparing existence of massive number of files Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA460C@MAIL10> Antonio: CDCheck looks like what I need. I can do two checksum files (one on each directory) and compare the results. Thanks a lot for the suggestion. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:12 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Comparing existence of massive number of files > Any good MD5 utilities for Windows that will handle > large file sets? I downloaded two today but one is a file-by > file MD5 and the other doesn't recurse down the directory > tree...it only does the current directory. These days, when I put together a data CD, I use CDCheck to build a CRC file for it. Once the CD is burned, I verify using the same tool to be sure it all made it onto the CD. I use MD5SUM too, but that does one directory at a time (AFAICT) so it is a little less useful. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tomj at wps.com Wed Mar 31 17:21:13 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <16489.44697.742236.374565@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040326114336.GB15696@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330104235.GB12336@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20040330172941.GD1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <16489.44697.742236.374565@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 10:04:37AM +0200, Christian Corti wrote: > > >> And please don't forget our LGP-30 here. > > R> Hmmm... then you haven't heard of Mel either? > > Ah yes.... I wonder if it's a true story -- and if so, whether anyone > has the code. What better program to run on that LGP-30? Mel Kaye worked at Royal McBee, and wrote a lot of the LGP-30 library code (boot loaders and such). His name and initials are all over documents I obtained from Bob Lilley. See http://wps.com/LGP-21 A lot of the software that came with the LGP-30 is on my site, in PDF form. From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 17:25:37 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: HP9826 Question - Basic 5.12 and such In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040331065334.0081cbd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.1.6.1.20040330200342.017cb200@mail.saracom.com> <3.0.6.32.20040331065334.0081cbd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040331182537.5ed0bc80.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:53:34 -0500 "Joe R." wrote: > At 08:14 PM 3/30/04 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >I have a question or 2 to ask on the HP9826. I am now the proud owner of > >the labs old system. > >Now I have several issues to resolve. The first is the reason I have and > >the lab does not. The > >display is out of focus and not too bright. I have tried to adjust using > >the pots inside labeled focus > >brightness. It helped alittle but not much. Any ideas? > > > >Also its no fun without an OS. Now we have BASIC Ver 5.12 at the > >lab. Unfortunately its on > >3 1/2 inch diskettes and the HP9826 has a 5 1/4 diskette drive. Hence > >short of using a mallet > >that won't help. So is there a method of using a PC to make 5 1/4s for it > >since I do have the > >3 1/2s? > > It's POSSIBLE to transfer data that way but it probably won't work in > this case since the 3 1/2" hold a lot more data and the 5 1/4" needs to be > bootable. Can you borrow your labs 3 1/2" drive or borrow one from someone > else? Are your 3 1/2"s single or double sided? Where are you located? > A number of years ago I successfully 'shoehorned' in a 3-1/2" floppy drive on an Intel PDS system. The Intel box only had 5-1/4" 'quad density' 80-track drives, for which media was difficult and expensive to obtain. The trick I used was to plug in a 720K 3-1/2" drive as the second drive on the floppy cable. The system thought of it as being the same drive as a 5-1/4" 720K (quad density) drive and let me perform 'disk copy' routines from 5-1/4" to 3-1/2" media. Then I installed the 3-1/2" drive in the box and used it as the primary boot drive for ISIS. It worked really well, considering I only had the few Original Intel diskettes to convert in this fashion. Nowadays, of course, 3-1/2" 720K diskettes are almost as hard to obtain in any quantity as 5-1/4" 720K diskettes were back then. This might not work for what's being discussed here, but it worked really well for me at the time and is a method that should also be considered. 'Just plug it in and try' is sometimes worth attempting. -Scott From tomj at wps.com Wed Mar 31 17:33:03 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: IM6100 (was Re: Computer Replicas) In-Reply-To: <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040330204151.05ebe972.sastevens@earthlink.net> <20040331045656.GA7853@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > What I'd like to know is if anyone has any hard info on the Intercept > Jr. or the Jolt. I have brief descriptions in a 1978 Popular Electronics > special issue in a section reviewing "all" of the available microcomputers > of the day. My father brought home from work (USGS) both an Intercept and the Jr. I really coveted the big one! Rack mount chassis! The Jr was OK though, the KIM-1 model, PCB with hex (erm, probably octal) display and keypad. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 31 17:53:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: AIX References: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200403302358.46536.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <003001c4177b$6cbbcdc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Lyle wrote... > I've worked extensively with Solaris, IRIX, Linux, and AIX for over twenty > years (not Linux - only since release 0.9?) - and in my opinion, AIX has > features that from it's inception were better than it's competitors - Logical > Volumes when no one else had them - and SMIT - which made system > administration simple. I've worked with AIX on accounts which had migrated > from mainframes to AIX - and was pleased to find it could scale to meet the > challenge. HP has had LVM for as long as I can remember as an optional add-on, and SAM even longer. Wasn't SAM around long before SMIT? I vaguely recall thinking that SAM came out first and IBM copied the idea but I'm not at all sure at this. Anyone know for sure and can set me straight? Jay From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Mar 31 16:46:10 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: Looking for spec sheet for MK6207N/MK5017BB clock chip In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040331101155.06416820@enigma> References: <20040331074127.GA16088@bos7.spole.gov> <6.0.3.0.2.20040331101155.06416820@enigma> Message-ID: <20040331224610.GA4629@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 10:21:33AM -0500, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 02:41 AM 3/31/04, you wrote: > >I've found an old RadioShack package with an MK5017BB Clock/Calendar chip. . . . > I have a two-page datasheet from Mostek up at > www.decodesystems.com/mk5017.html Thanks. I did eventually find that page, but we were having sat troubles and couldn't pull up the images, just the text. I'll check it again tonight when we have a high-bandwidth sat up. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 31-Mar-2004 22:41 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -51.5 F (-46.4 C) Windchill -118.9 F (-83.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 20.4 kts Grid 333 Barometer 678.2 mb (10695. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 31 18:09:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:31 2005 Subject: debugging a tu58? blank tapes or bad read channel? In-Reply-To: <200403311918.i2VJIk104692@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Mar 31, 4 02:18:46 pm Message-ID: > > > Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging a TU58? > > This is a dual TU58 from a vax 730. The symptom is that when I try to > boot from it the tape rewinds a bunch of times and then reads off the > end of the tape. > > I removed it and poked all around with a scope and the schematics. The > motor control is fine as well as the tachometer. The read channel shows > no activity, even when I put a tape in and move the tape. The micro > seems happy. I asusme both drives behave identically. That would suggest that the heads were both OK (it's unlikely they've both failed at the same time). > > I connected it to "tu58ctl" and I can talk to it and send/receive > commands. But when I try to position the tape I get a "motor stopped" > error. > > I'm begining to wonder if the 3 TU58 carts I have have been bulk erased. > I have no "known goods" and I've never read these tapes. I made the > assumption they were good but that might be a mistake. That, alas, is the most likely explanation, I think... > > (wish I had those mythical proms which can write carts :-) > > I put a scope on the signal from the read heads and I see nothing when > the tape spins by. I find that very odd. I would think I'd see pulses > even if the blocks where all zeros... So nothing makes me think the > tapes have been bulk erased. Do you have any other tapes of the same form factor (say an HP85, or an HP9825, tape)? If so, try those and look at the head signal with a 'scope (it'll be in the millivolt range, of course). If you get something with those tapes, but not with the TU58s, it's a fair bet they've been bulk erased. > > Is there any way I can test the read channel without having a good tape? Do you have a tape head demagnetiser? If so, use it to _carefully_ inject a 50/60Hz field into the head. Look at the output of the head with a 'scope. You might be able to see the signal at the output of the amplifier stages too, it depends on what, if any, filtering is present. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 31 18:12:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:31 2005 Subject: debugging a tu58? blank tapes or bad read channel? In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Mar 31, 4 03:03:33 pm Message-ID: > can give you an indication that the head is good... beware using an > ohmeter on magnetic heads, unless you have a degausser for same and use it > afterwards - the DC voltage from the ohmeter will magnetize the head, and > this is a Very Bad Thing for subsequent tapes. Is this still a problem with modern digital ohmmeters? It certainly was a problem with analogue ones. I once went on a merry dance finding why a Sony reel-to-reel VTR was giving low head output, it turned out I'd magnetised the heads while checking them for continuity. Not enough to damage tapes, but enough to upset their magnetic characteristics... -tony From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 31 18:29:39 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype Message-ID: <200404010029.QAA20620@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Although, one may have some success by shipping in a cardboard box only ( mine was trashed ), it should be bolted to at least a piece of plywood. If this is put into a box, proper strain relief should be done where plywood edge meets the box. This is so that the plywood doesn't just poke through the box. These units are too heavy to be in a cardboard box alone. Dwight From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Mar 31 18:30:19 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <003001c4177b$6cbbcdc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200403302358.46536.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <003001c4177b$6cbbcdc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200403311630.19121.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Wednesday 31 March 2004 15:53, Jay West wrote: > > Lyle wrote... --snip-- > > Volumes when no one else had them - and SMIT - which made system > > administration simple. > HP has had LVM for as long as I can remember as an optional add-on, and SAM > even longer. Sun and SGI both had LVMs as add-ons later - and ultimately as an integrated part of the standard server releases. At the time IBM introduced a totally integrated LVM in AIX - it came under heavy criticism from the rest of the UNIX community because disk drives in AIX were entirely logical and not readily RAW capable. The fact that one could add (or in some cases delete) drives and logical partitions in a running UNIX system was critical for large commercial shops. > Wasn't SAM around long before SMIT? I vaguely recall thinking > that SAM came out first and IBM copied the idea but I'm not at all sure at > this. Anyone know for sure and can set me straight? I'm not sure either. I don't recollect SMIT being available with the first release of AIX - But it was definitely available in the early eighties. I've worked with HP-UX on 9000's - and it is relatively easy to work with - but, in my opinion, AIX's SMIT is more complete and better integrated (especially in logical volume management). AIX also had from the begining and continues to have a very sophisticated and well integrated patch management system which equals that of large enterprise level systems (mainframes). On another, but related topic, someone had commented on AIX and Open Source - Early AIX releases were a pain - but later releases (say 4.3 on) were much easier to work with. Now IBM has ported tons of freeware to AIX - downloadable as source and binary from their AIX site - and is comfortably Open Source friendly. BTW: Just so you don't think I'm biased toward AIX (I'd like to think I am "fair and balanced" ;-) Here is my picks in order of: Favorite *NIX servers --------------------------- Solaris Linux IRIX AIX HP-UX Favorite *NIX workstations --------------------------------- IRIX Linux Solaris AIX HP-UX Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 31 13:59:16 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: On topic? engine computers used in chrysler in 1980's. In-Reply-To: <003001c4177b$6cbbcdc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040401005722.JAMC7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Been searching the 'net and talking to dealers with little success. I have two computers (chrysler call them Spark control computer) I'm trying to get info on what kind of programming for different emissions systems and two types of carbs. Especially for chrysler 2.2L 4 cylinder engine with these computer, controls or uses: Non-feedback or feedback carbs, has vaccum pot on the computer itself for the advance, switches and temp sensor, soleoids (emissions stuff and/or fuel/air mixture soleoid). Some used O2 for the feedback carb. Hall effect sensor in disributor and set spark advance for spark control). Have somebody who have access to better info on those especially emssions type (fed, calif or canadian and which carb is used? I have two computers for the caravan (Part numbers are: 5227382 for 1986, and 5227379 for 1987.) Cheers, Wizard From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Mar 31 19:21:15 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype - Anyone near Topeka?? In-Reply-To: <200404010029.QAA20620@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: The Teletype in question is actually on the outskirts of Topeka, Ks. If there are any list members there who could possibly assist in packaging it would be greatly appreciated (and a reasonable fee paid) The shipper is NOT a collector, rather if a person who "inherited" the TTY and is basicly clueless [although very nice]. David. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Mar 31 19:27:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: HP 200LX References: Message-ID: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have a SanDisk compactflash card, 4mb SDCFB with a PCMCIA adapter. It doesn't work in my 200LX. I thought sandisk was one of the "usually works with 200LX" cards. I'd like to buy something on ebay, but need to know which ones will work :\ Any guidance? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Feldman" To: Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:12 AM Subject: Re: HP 200LX > J West wrote: > > >I have quite a few flash cards from cisco routers and other devices, but > >NONE are recognized by the 200LX. Anyone have a flash card that works in a > >200LX they would be willing to trade? > > > SanDisk SDP3B series PCMCIA flash cards work in the HP 200LX -- I have an > 85MB one -- and are fairly common and inexpensive on eBay. > > You can also get a CF card and an adapter. On cards larger than 512MB, you > might need the ACECARD driver, available from SUPER > (http://www.palmtop.net/super.html). > > Bob > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet > access. > https://broadband.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ > > > From charlesmorris at direcway.com Wed Mar 31 19:32:11 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: FS: KSR-33 "basket case" Message-ID: I have a nearly complete KSR-33 that I'd like to find a good home for. It is literally a basket case - it's in quite a few separate pieces but all there as far as I can tell except for the cover/housing, and possibly a few small springs. Motor is good. I also have a papertape reader assembly but no punch (you'd need an ASR baseplate to make it into an ASR-33). Make me an offer. I'm in West Plains, MO 65775 so you can figure shipping. -Charles From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 31 20:05:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <406A87AC.6020208@citem.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Hans B PUFAL wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > >The Librascope L321 fixed-head drive I've got is coated with cobalt > >according to the literature. > > > > > Deatails please, CCC lists Libbrascope L-300, L-3055, L-3060, LGP-21 > and LGP-30. but no L321. The label on this is stamped with a model number of L-321-1. I have literature for the Series L-300 with the following characteristics: Power requirements: 115-volt, 60-cycle, single-phase AC Disc diameter: 10 in. Weight: 25 lbs. Axis of rotation: Vert., horiz., or any combination Recording diameters: 4.7 in. to 9.2 in. Number of tracks: 45 (5 groups of 9) Number of registers: 4 Register length: 0.25 or 0.5 in. Register adjustment: +/-0.018 in. Bits per track (max.): 6144 pm recording Track width: 0.034 in. Tracks per inch: 20 Capacity (total): 276,480 bits Packing density (max.): 400 bits/in. at 4.7 in. dia. Rotational speed: 1200 or 1800 rpm Frequency (repetition rate): 184kc (max.) Recording surface: Proprietary plated cobalt Head spacing: Flying head Head inductance (typical): 1 mh/half coil Write current (typical): 28 ma Readback voltage (typical) 1200 rpm: 180 mv (min.), inner track 340 mv (max.), outer track Bearing life (average): 10 years The Model L-323 has the following characteristics: Power requirements: 115-volt, 60-cycle, single-phase AC Disc diameter: 10 in. Weight: 60 lbs. Axis of rotation: Vert., horiz., or any combination Recording diameters: 4.7 in. to 9.2 in. Number of tracks: 135 (15 groups of 9) Number of registers: 12 Register length: 0.25 or 0.5 in. Register adjustment: +/-0.018 in. Bits per track (max.): 6800 pm recording Track width: 0.034 in. Tracks per inch: 20 Capacity (total): 1,000,000 bits Packing density (max.): 400 bits/in. at 4.7 in. dia. Rotational speed: 1200 or 1800 rpm Frequency (repetition rate): 204kc (max.) Recording surface: Proprietary plated cobalt Head spacing: Flying head Head inductance (typical): 1 mh/half coil Write current (typical): 28 ma Readback voltage (typical) 1200 rpm: 180 mv (min.), inner track 340 mv (max.), outer track Bearing life (average): 10 years >From the accompanying photo, the L-323 seems to be a three platter device driven by one motor. My guess is that the L-321 (what I have) denotes the single platter device. So L-300 is probably the general series family, and L-321 and L-323 are the specific product models. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Mar 31 21:07:01 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <200403311630.19121.lbickley@bickleywest.com> from Lyle Bickley at "Mar 31, 4 04:30:19 pm" Message-ID: <200404010307.TAA14232@floodgap.com> > The fact that one > could add (or in some cases delete) drives and logical partitions in a > running UNIX system was critical for large commercial shops. Agreed 100%. This feature has saved my bacon a few times with the boxen I administered. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to. ------- From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 31 21:15:22 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ah, but there's your problem. You're thinking that AIX is unix. It _is_ > UNIX(tm), but it really really isn't unix. It's a very proprietary OS > with a very slick unix user interface and API. Yes, under the covers it apparently shares a bit with OS/400. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Mar 31 21:22:19 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype - Anyone near Topeka?? In-Reply-To: References: <200404010029.QAA20620@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <2841.65.123.179.126.1080789739.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I'm 75 miles away in St. Joseph, MO, but no wheels until next Wednesday, and will have through Sunday. Nothing worse than to have to rent a car to find another car to buy. Gary Hildebrand > The Teletype in question is actually on the outskirts of Topeka, Ks. > > If there are any list members there who could possibly assist in packaging > it would be greatly appreciated (and a reasonable fee paid) > > The shipper is NOT a collector, rather if a person who "inherited" the TTY > and is basicly clueless [although very nice]. > > David. > > From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Mar 31 22:10:00 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: On topic? engine computers used in chrysler in 1980's. References: <20040401005722.JAMC7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <000e01c4179f$33aaffa0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: On topic? engine computers used in chrysler in 1980's. > Been searching the 'net and talking to dealers with little success. > > > I have two computers for the caravan (Part numbers are: 5227382 > for 1986, and 5227379 for 1987.) > > Cheers, > > Wizard head to your news feed and ask in : rec.autos.makers.chrysler (ask for bubba) From kelly at fergason.com Wed Mar 31 19:09:41 2004 From: kelly at fergason.com (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:35 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <200403310924.EAA02806@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <00d301c41670$bdcea040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200403302358.46536.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <200403310924.EAA02806@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <406B6BD5.9040006@fergason.com> der Mouse wrote: >[quoting order fixed up -dM] > > >>>I'm sorry, but I've worked extensively on many differen't unices, >>>and AIX is truely evil. Guess if it's the only unix you deal with >>>so you don't keep having to switch mentality between AIX and >>>everything else... >>> >>> >>I've worked extensively with Solaris, IRIX, Linux, and AIX for over >>twenty years (not Linux - only since release 0.9?) - and in my >>opinion, AIX has features that from it's inception were better than >>it's competitors - Logical Volumes when no one else had them - and >>SMIT - which made system administration simple. >> >> > >Like Jay, I've worked with various different unices (for most of my >career, I was a sysadmin at a university research lab), and at one >point one of them was AIX. And I'm with Jay on this. > >Perhaps SMIT makes sysadmin simple if you don't mind drinking the IBM >kool-aid - but if you're trying to manage a heterogenous pile of >machines and keep them more or less similar to one another as far as >you can, AIX is practically guaranteed to be an outlier. Way, way out. >We called it "aches" for a reason. > > > I used it in the 4.x timeframe, and I generally agree with most of the statements (both ways), but I liked SMIT because I could view the command. It would show you the command line it was about to execute. I'm not generally a GUI user for admin stuff, but the ability to setup a complex command and then view the actual commandline statement was useful. Kelly From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Wed Mar 31 22:56:49 2004 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:35 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <003001c4177b$6cbbcdc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: One thing that AIX had before hpux is the ability to dynamically increase the size of its lvols. HP can now do it (and has been able to for a couple of years), but AIX has had this feature for a long time (and I was very envious of it until hp finally added it into its unix). -Bob On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Jay West wrote: > Lyle wrote... > > I've worked extensively with Solaris, IRIX, Linux, and AIX for over twenty > > years (not Linux - only since release 0.9?) - and in my opinion, AIX has > > features that from it's inception were better than it's competitors - > Logical > > Volumes when no one else had them - and SMIT - which made system > > administration simple. I've worked with AIX on accounts which had > migrated > > from mainframes to AIX - and was pleased to find it could scale to meet > the > > challenge. > > HP has had LVM for as long as I can remember as an optional add-on, and SAM > even longer. Wasn't SAM around long before SMIT? I vaguely recall thinking > that SAM came out first and IBM copied the idea but I'm not at all sure at > this. Anyone know for sure and can set me straight? > > Jay > >